Building Wealth Is About More Than Just Math

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Building Wealth Is About More Than Just Math" Release Date: November 25, 2024

---

Introduction

In the episode titled "Building Wealth Is About More Than Just Math," hosted by Dave Ramsey and co-hosted by Jade Washaw Ramsey, listeners delve into complex financial and relational issues that transcend mere numerical calculations. The conversation emphasizes the importance of mindset, communication, and strategic decision-making in wealth-building endeavors. Throughout the hour, Ramsey and his team address callers' real-life financial dilemmas, providing actionable advice rooted in Ramsey’s renowned financial principles.

---

Caller Stories and Financial Guidance

1. Marta’s Marital Financial Crisis

   • Timestamp [00:58]: Marta from Portland, Oregon, shares her distressing situation after discovering her husband's gambling addiction. Over the years, her husband secretly amassed debts, including a $90,000 HELOC and potential IRS liabilities due to unpaid taxes and unauthorized retirement fund withdrawals.
   • Key Discussion Points:
     • Confrontation and Awareness: Marta uncovered her husband's financial misdeeds by intercepting his mail, leading to the revelation of hidden debts and illegal activities.
     • Divorce Considerations: Despite her desire to end the marriage, Marta feels constrained by the high costs of divorce and her husband's denial of his issues.
     • Ramsey’s Advice: Dave Ramsey urges Marta to take immediate action by contacting a divorce attorney to protect her financial future. He emphasizes the importance of establishing financial distance to prevent further financial deterioration.
   • Notable Quote:

     "You do not have to do anything except pay a retainer, get a lawyer and file for divorce right now." – Dave Ramsey [04:37]

2. Financial Obligations to Adult Children

   • Timestamp [11:29]: Marta returns with another query regarding financial support for her five adult children. She grapples with the fairness and obligation of providing for their weddings and education, especially when some exhibit financial irresponsibility.
   • Key Discussion Points:
     • Setting Boundaries: Ramsey and Washaw discuss the importance of parents discerning their role and not feeling morally or culturally obliged to financially support every aspect of their children's lives.
     • Fairness vs. Entitlement: The conversation highlights the distinction between being fair and enabling entitlement, advocating for conditional help that promotes responsibility.
     • Stipulations on Assistance: Suggestions include tying financial support to specific terms, such as funding weddings only if certain conditions are met, to prevent misuse of funds.
   • Notable Quote:

     "You are not obliged, period. It's your money. You get to decide." – Dave Ramsey [12:36]

3. Desire for a Bigger House Despite Financial Stability

   • Timestamp [32:25]: Brody from Maryland questions the fairness of feeling angry when his wife desires a larger home, despite having recently paid off their mortgage by selling investment properties.
   • Key Discussion Points:
     • Contentment and Lifestyle Inflation: The hosts discuss how constant shifting of goals can lead to dissatisfaction, stressing the importance of being content with one’s financial achievements.
     • Communication and Alignment: Ramsey advises couples to realign their financial goals and ensure mutual understanding to prevent recurring conflicts over material desires.
     • Social Influences: The impact of social media and societal expectations on personal financial decisions is examined, highlighting how external comparisons can fuel unnecessary financial stress.
   • Notable Quote:

     "You can't buy happiness. And you can't buy contentment." – Dave Ramsey [33:37]

4. Student Loan Forgiveness and Tax Implications

   • Timestamp [52:42]: Hannah from Columbia, South Carolina, inquires about the tax ramifications of her student loan forgiveness received through a program targeting predatory institutions.
   • Key Discussion Points:
     • Nature of Loan Forgiveness: Ramsey clarifies that certain loan forgiveness programs, especially those related to predatory lending schools, may not be taxable as they are considered a return of the borrower's own funds.
     • Seeking Professional Advice: Emphasizes the necessity of consulting a tax professional to confirm specific tax obligations related to loan forgiveness.
     • Misconceptions About Political Initiatives: Ramsey debunks the notion that recent administrations created new loan forgiveness programs, attributing them instead to pre-existing federal policies.
   • Notable Quote:

     "That is a standard for giving. So the student loan that you took out with this predatory trade schools, what they typically are, or some kind of online school or something like that, they took out. They gave you student loans. They were federally insured student loans and the federal government forgave those because they deemed the school to be predatory." – Dave Ramsey [53:38]

5. Success Story: Paying Off a $305,000 Mortgage in Three Years

   • Timestamp [63:04]: Alex and Brenda from Parker, Colorado, share their inspiring journey of paying off a $305,000 mortgage in just over three years, achieving millionaire status in their early thirties.
   • Key Discussion Points:
     • Financial Peace University (FPU): The couple credits their success to principles learned from FPU, emphasizing disciplined budgeting and strategic savings.
     • Multiple Income Streams: They detail various side hustles, including working at Home Depot, delivering packages for Amazon, landscaping, and tutoring, which collectively accelerated their debt payoff.
     • Family Support and Sacrifice: Highlighting the role of family support and significant personal sacrifices, such as extreme work hours, in achieving financial freedom.
   • Notable Quote:

     "That is the key to Getting out of debt. Is hard work for sure." – Caller (Scott) [67:33]

6. Dan’s Concern About Debt Relief Programs

   • Timestamp [74:00]: Dan from Las Vegas seeks advice on a debt relief offer that proposes reducing his girlfriend’s $21,000 credit card debt to $16,400 over 48 months.
   • Key Discussion Points:
     • Critique of Debt Relief Services: Ramsey warns against such companies, explaining that they often mirror the negative impacts of bankruptcy by damaging credit scores without truly alleviating debt.
     • Alternative Solutions: Encourages individuals to focus on disciplined budgeting, increasing income through legitimate means like tutoring, and avoiding services that offer unrealistic debt reductions.
     • Financial Education and Empowerment: Stresses the importance of taking control of one’s finances directly rather than relying on potentially exploitative third-party services.
   • Notable Quote:

     "Stay away from them. Stay away from them." – Dave Ramsey [74:14]

---

Key Insights and Conclusions

• Holistic Wealth Building: Building wealth extends beyond mathematical calculations; it involves strategic planning, emotional resilience, and effective communication within personal relationships.

• Mindset Over Mathematics: Success in financial endeavors is as much about adopting the right mindset—such as discipline, sacrifice, and intentionality—as it is about understanding numbers and formulas.

• Importance of Financial Education: Programs like Financial Peace University are instrumental in equipping individuals and couples with the knowledge and skills necessary to manage and eliminate debt effectively.

• Navigating Financial Conflicts: Open communication and aligned financial goals are crucial in preventing and resolving conflicts related to money within marriages and families.

• Skepticism Towards Debt Relief Services: Ramsey advises skepticism towards companies offering debt relief through settlement or consolidation, highlighting the potential long-term negative impacts on credit and financial health.

---

Highlighted Quotes with Timestamps

1. Dave Ramsey on Immediate Action:

   "You do not have to do anything except pay a retainer, get a lawyer and file for divorce right now." – [04:37]

2. Dave Ramsey on Financial Obligations:

   "You are not obliged, period. It's your money. You get to decide." – [12:36]

3. Dave Ramsey on Contentment:

   "You can't buy happiness. And you can't buy contentment." – [33:37]

4. Dave Ramsey on Loan Forgiveness:

   "That is a standard for giving. So the student loan that you took out with this predatory trade schools... was that they deemed the school to be predatory." – [53:38]

5. Caller (Scott) on Debt Payoff:

   "That is the key to Getting out of debt. Is hard work for sure." – [67:33]

6. Dave Ramsey on Debt Relief Programs:

   "Stay away from them. Stay away from them." – [74:14]

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Ramsey Show reinforces the idea that wealth building is a multifaceted journey requiring more than just numerical savvy. It underscores the significance of personal integrity, effective communication, and strategic financial planning. By addressing real-life financial struggles and providing grounded advice, Ramsey and his team empower listeners to navigate their financial paths with confidence and resilience.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey guys. Black Friday week is here with five days of deals starting at just $12. Go to Ramsaysolutions.com store to check them out. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washaw Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Marta is with us to start this hour. Marta's in Portland, Oregon. Hi Marta, how are you?

[Caller (Marta)]

Hi, Dave. I'm doing okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller (Marta)]

Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller (Marta)]

So I am 57 years old. I've been married for 33 years and I've never managed our joint financials. But I find myself that that was a big mistake on my part and I need help with trying to figure out how to sort out my finances. I have a house that's in my name and my husband has gambling problems that I just discovered and has been snowballing since I started discovering the problems. I signed a HELOC not knowing what I actually was signing. So I owe $90,000 of that and haven't done taxes for four years. So I know that at least I owe $10,000 out of the IRS on top of everything else I probably owe because he was taking money of my retirement without my knowledge. And so that's going to come down the pike for me and I'm just overwhelmed about how to get things.

[Jade Washaw]

How'd you find out?

[Caller (Marta)]

I found out a letter because, you know, he handled the mail. He handled everything. I opened a letter and from Fidelity and found out that he had borrowed money from there and I confronted them about it and that was last year. He said he was paying and he did pay it and I told him not to take any more money, but he continued to do that. Not only that, but he had taken money prior years and he never told me that he's got 10 counts because he also stole money from a nonprofit that he was the treasurer.

[Jade Washaw]

Are you still together?

[Caller (Marta)]

Unfortunately, yes. Because people say I'm too nice.

[Jade Washaw]

Wow.

[Caller (Marta)]

Getting a divorce is going to be very expensive. And so I'm trying to get my finances in order. He's just delusional. He's in the world.

[Jade Washaw]

You're just biting. You just biding your time. Is that what that amounts to? You're trying to get your finances together so that you can get out of this marriage or are you guys going to counseling to see if you can solve it?

[Caller (Marta)]

Oh, no, we did Counseling. He was not there. Yeah, I mean, I. I've been begging him to do things and he.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me make sure I understand where you are then, hun, I'm sorry. What a heartbreak. Yeah, you're. You don't know. You don't know what's going on and that's terrifying. And you got 33 year marriages ending and that's terrifying. Am I understanding you correctly to say you are saying you're going to end this?

[Caller (Marta)]

I am, yes. I'm done with it. He. He's not. He thinks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's not up to him. You can. In Oregon, you can file for divorce. You're allowed to do that, right?

[Caller (Marta)]

Yeah, I just can't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you work outside the home?

[Caller (Marta)]

Oh, yeah, I'm a nurse. So I.

[Dave Ramsey]

So where is the money go that you make?

[Caller (Marta)]

Well, it was going to a joint account. I finally.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so it's going into your. You changed. It's going into your name now?

[Caller (Marta)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How much is in that account?

[Caller (Marta)]

Right now there's about $11,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you hang up the phone, I want you to call a divorce attorney and schedule an appointment for tomorrow.

[Caller (Marta)]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Please. You keep. You keep thinking you're going to wake up and this is all a bad dream and I'm your old ugly brother that's telling you it's not. It's your reality. And it's unbelievably sad, it's unbelievably scary. But it's going to get worse every moment that you don't deal with this. You do not have to do anything except pay a retainer, get a lawyer and file for divorce right now.

[Caller (Marta)]

Okay, I did see one. And at the time I didn't even have the money for the retainer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now you do?

[Caller (Marta)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Is that the one you're going to use?

[Caller (Marta)]

I don't know yet. I only saw one and he. He's telling me he's going to fight it and he wants.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care what he thinks. He no longer has a vote. Yeah, he gave that up when he stole money from a nonprofit, when he stole money from his wife, when he had her sign documents that she didn't know what she was signing. This is a full raging lunatic addict who has no boundaries. And it's going to. He's going to burn the house down around you if you stand there and watch it and ignore the smoke. Please, darling, for your sake, while there's still something left, get. Get an attorney and get him around the throat and shut down all of the financials shut down everything so he has no. No concept of anything. Move it all out from under his care until an attorney. Until his attorney and the court makes you put it back. It's time for you to get very aggressive, to try to salvage what you can for the next chapter of your life. On.

[Caller (Marta)]

Mm.

[Jade Washaw]

Marta. Who knows about this? Are you going through this alone or do you have some folks around you?

[Caller (Marta)]

Oh, no, I mean, every. I have friends. I'm going to counseling. My kids know. But I mean, he took what, $60,000 from my son who. Who's married, has two babies, saying he was going to pay it back. He had a business that went bankrupt and I'm just kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, this has been done a long time and you've ignored it, thinking it was going to get better, hun, because you're a sweet person. But listen, you're killing yourself here, okay? Please, please deal with this.

[Caller (Marta)]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Now this is your big brother that loves you talking, okay? Do it now.

[Caller (Marta)]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Quit screwing around with this. It's not gonna. If he suddenly gets healed, gets lightning bolts struck from heaven and changes. We can always come back and talk about that later. But right now, everything you have told me in the last few minutes screams emergency.

[Caller (Marta)]

Yeah, well, he's. He thinks he's doing better, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honey, I don't care what he thinks. He lost his vote and there's no proof of that. Every time you tell me something about him, it's where he stole something or took something. That's your entire description of your husband. He's a raging gambling addict and there's no fix for that. We work with addicts all the time. The only fix for that is to break the cycle. And this guy is not interested in breaking the cycle. Addicts can get better, but 100% of addicts are master manipulators and they are master liars. He'll make you think this is your fault.

[Caller (Marta)]

Oh, yeah, he does make me think that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's part of. That's part of the addiction, okay? And there's only one thing you can do with this, and that's get distance. Financial distance, physical distance, housing distance. Call that attorney back or call an attorney today. And please, darling, take action on this. It's not going to get better. This guy's an abuser. Wow. I'm so sorry. What a heartbreaking thing to deal with. Fastest growing addiction in North America today. Online porn. Second fastest growing addiction, gambling. We're seeing in our financial counseling offices those two things destroying more families than anything else. Thank you to the Internet. This is the Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities with one unified business management suite. There's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's Next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey it's free at netsuite.com Ramsey Black Friday week is in full swing at Ramsey Solutions. We've got life changing gifts for the people you love. All on sale. Our best selling books like the Total Money Makeover. Baby steps. Millionaires Own your past, change your Future. All only $12 each. And of course, the Total Money Makeover is more than a book. All these books are. They're a life changing gift. We hear it all the time. Millions of people have changed their lives because of a Dr. John DeLoney book or a Total Money Makeover book or a Jade Washaw book. Like money's not a math problem. You know, Jade and her husband paid off over $460,000 in debt. A lot of it had to do with shifting their mindset about money. Money's not a math problem is what that's about. It's one of our quick reads. Rachel's wallets, John's questions for human cards. Man, it's all there. Check it all out. Black Friday deals abound@ramsey solutions.com store. If you're listening on YouTube or the podcast, you can click the link in the description and go straight there. Paula's in Canada. Hi, Paula. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller (Marta)]

Thank you very much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller (Marta)]

I have a question about adult children and financially helping them out. What my obligation is because I hear lots of people trying to help out with weddings and education and that sort of Thing. I'm at a point in my life now where financially I can do it, but am I obliged to do it when they've shown that they aren't financially responsible themselves?

[Jade Washaw]

No.

[Caller (Marta)]

And how do I make it fair when there's five of them?

[Dave Ramsey]

What is. Who would obli. You mean morally or spiritually obliged or culturally obliged? I mean, who obliges you?

[Caller (Marta)]

Well, you know, when they're at a point where they're having babies and getting married and you spend all time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I know what you're talking about. I'm asking. You said, am I forced? Obliged is a sweet way. Am I required, is what you're saying. Who's.

[Caller (Marta)]

Am I required?

[Dave Ramsey]

Who require. Who requires it?

[Caller (Marta)]

I guess I feel that they require it. When it comes to fairness.

[Dave Ramsey]

That would be called entitlement. That would not be called. Yeah, matter of fact, I. Paul, I have a new requirement. You need to send me some money. Here's my address. Who gives a crap what someone else requires? Right?

[Jade Washaw]

Who is it that wants it, and what do they want?

[Caller (Marta)]

Well, I don't know if they want it as far as trying to treat them fairly. You know, when there's five of them in, one sees that I've spent money on one or the other trying to help them out or spending money on weddings or having babies, and then the other ones think, well, why isn't she giving me money? Or why isn't she buying me gifts? You know, and I'm at a point in my life where I can do it, but I also want to be able to travel and enjoy my retirement and that kind of thing when I don't know how to make it fair between the five of them.

[Jade Washaw]

So I do think that that's an interesting question. I've got two kids, and it would be strange of me if both were good kids. If I paid for one wedding but didn't pay for the other, I could see why they would say, well, what's the difference? You've got five kids. That's a lot more. Is there something going on that's making you say, for child number one, I'll do this, but for child number two, I won't. And here's why. Is it a. Is it a behavior thing?

[Caller (Marta)]

Is it a. I think so, because my. One of my children just had a baby and another one is in. Is having a baby again soon, and I've spent all sorts of money on one for a wedding, but not the other.

[Dave Ramsey]

And why.

[Jade Washaw]

And we're saying why not the other?

[Caller (Marta)]

Right. And one of my children is financially being irresponsible. And I do want to help them, but in the other sense, like, can I help them with stipulations like I don't want to give you cash because you're going to waste.

[Dave Ramsey]

Back to Jade's question, because I'm not sure I heard the answer. If you paid for one wedding, but you didn't pay for the other, why you decided that. Why did the one that you didn't pay for being irresponsible and so you didn't want to fund it, what was the reason for the differences?

[Caller (Marta)]

I think it was more of some of them have had the big splashy weddings, and then others of them haven't chosen to have the big splashy wedding. So do I.

[Dave Ramsey]

So they wanted the money instead.

[Caller (Marta)]

Yes, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right. And you just. You felt like paying for the wedding was okay, but you didn't want to necessarily be. To fund everybody the same amount or.

[Caller (Marta)]

Or how do you make it equal? You know, if. If I'm spending $5,000 on one wedding.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller (Marta)]

Do I?

[Jade Washaw]

Well, if it's your money, I think you get to set the premise. If you say, okay, for each of you, this is the budget and that's what it is, and you make it fair. I mean, they. My point is they don't get to decide what you give. You get to decide it.

[Caller (Marta)]

Okay.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, but if you've already gone down the road.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I'm kind of stretched between two different things in this, and I don't know exactly where to land. I mean, we told our kids growing up, there is no fair is where the tilted world is and the cotton candy is. We're not socialists. We're capitalists. There's not fair. Okay, so that's how it works. Things don't work out. That's just the way it is. And I don't get to decide all of the. What life treats you fair or doesn't treat you fair, but fair is a joke. Fairs only by communist college professors. There's no fair. Okay, welcome to the real world. Now, that's what we talk. That's. On one sense, I don't have to do it equal because our family's not socialist. On the other sense, I don't want to scar one of them and make them think there is a. Unless I'm refusing to fund their misbehavior. I mean, if one of them has a splashy wedding and one of them doesn't, and the one that doesn't is doing heroin, I don't want to Give them. I don't need to give them the same amount of money. Well, that's not fair. I don't care. That's not going to fund misbehavior. But if they don't, there's no differences in their behaviors. It feels a little weird that they're not getting the same amount of money. So, no, you're not obligated. But I'm just thinking through with you the emotional and the relational parts of the discussion. You are not obliged, period. It's your money. You get to decide. I don't get to tell you what to do with it. They don't get to tell you what to do with it. You can just look at someone and say no, and no is a complete sentence. But from a relational standpoint, if there's not a reason for differentiating, that would give me, as a dad concern. I can see how that would cause you a problem. If there's a reason, like a misbehavior for differentiating, I can lean into that real easily.

[Jade Washaw]

And I do think it's fair to say, let's say you have $10,000 to put towards a wedding. I think it's fair to say I have $10,000 for your wedding. But if one of them says, I don't want the wedding, I just want the $10,000, I think it's fair to say, no, the $10,000 is for the wedding. Right?

[Caller (Marta)]

I mean, those stipulations are. Okay.

[Jade Washaw]

I. Well, in this case, especially since you're saying some of them are misbehaving with money, you giving them $10,000 is them saying, well, I'm going to do whatever I want with this money. And if, to your point, if they're doing misbehavior things, then that's not the gift you wanted it to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it magnifies their stupidity when you give them money. So it does for all of us. Anybody that gets money, it magnifies who you are, good and bad. And so when you put some zeros on the end of that, you're doing that. So I don't know. I think one of the things we've learned to do in the Ramsey household, and it's helped because I am convinced. My wife and I were talking about this the other day, and it's not because I'm. My kids are bad. They're excellent kids. But I think adult children is a weird phrase to start with. That's like an oxymoronic phrase to start with. But raising adult children is the hardest phase of Parenting, it was much easier when they were under my control and I could just tell them what to freaking do. It was a lot easier. Now they have these ideas of their own and stuff. I taught them to think, and damned if they didn't, you know, oh, my God, it's so hard. So, you know, and so it's. It's a difficult time emotionally in that state for a lot of parents, Paula. But I think if you're going to differentiate for a reason, one of the things we've done a really good job about is we just communicate. We just say, there's a difference here, and here's why. And you know what? That lets all the air out of it. And you say it in front of the whole family. Right. You put everybody in the room and go, this is what we're doing is Thanksgiving, by the way. And here's what we're doing. And it clears the air.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, I remember Rachel had her first big book coming out, and we know what personalities make on a big book. And so we were at Thanksgiving, and I said, hey, everybody, we're going to stop just a second here. And y'all are all. They're all in their 20s. And I'm like, rachel's getting ready to have a great year from some hard work she's done. And some of your years aren't going to be as great because you haven't done that same exact work. And you get the decision right now to decide whether to be jealous and petty or whether to congratulate your sister and cheer her on. To their credit, once you said it out loud, they immediately became cheerleaders. But it took the air out of the balloon of jealousy once you say it out loud. And so you don't, you know, it's harder to do it once somebody said it out loud. This is the Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible air. People that call in and their spouse.

[Caller (Paula)]

Has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills, how about next week?

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the middle of all that grief, like, it's just.

[Jade Washaw]

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids, that I'm, like, so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and.

[Caller (Paula)]

I actually get all of our life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com Jade Wash all number one bestselling author and Ramsey personality is my co host. It's that time of year. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing a special giving generosity edition of the Ramsey Show. It's one of my favorite shows because we want to teach you to live like no one else so that later you can give like no one else. So here's the deal. Maybe you've been the person that was generous and you got to see someone's face and life changed. Maybe you were on the receiving end of the generosity and you want to tell that story. Whether you know the person that gave or whether it was an anonymous gift, we don't care. We want to encourage generosity by telling great generosity stories. So jump onto ramseysolutions.com/put giving in the subject line. That's how you get on the radio show. If you want to leave a message there and you put giving on the subject line. We'll get you on the podcast, the YouTube show. When we're doing the giving show. We do this every Christmas time. It's one of our most popular shows. People love it because it reminds us how wonderful human beings can be out there and often are. It's coming up on December 18th, so send us your giving stories starting today so you can live like no one else so later you can give like no one else. Ramsaysolutions.com Ask Put Giving in the subject line. Hannah's in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Hannah. What's up?

[Caller (Marta)]

Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. I'm so excited to talk to you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too. How can we help?

[Caller (Marta)]

Okay, my question is, I have been listening to you guys for about two or three months and I'm really gung ho. My husband and I are almost to baby steps four, five and six. And I know you guys say to be intentional in those and do them together. So when you're in those steps, why should my husband and I not put extra money into an investment that has a 12% return instead of paying off our house that has an interest rate of 2.5?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a great math question. And the reason is more than math. So we studied 10,167 millionaires, okay. And ask them, how did you become a millionaire? Did you inherit the money? Did you win the lotto? Are you a country music star? Did you save and invest? How did you do it? What did you do? What's your age? What's your income? What's your career? So we could find some correlations again. And 10,000 people is enough to study to draw some real airtight research based conclusions. And we got a lot of wonderful data from that. In other words, facts. Here's what's interesting. The number of those millionaires that said I became a millionaire because I borrowed on my home at a lesser interest rate so that I could invest more, which is effectively what you're talking about doing. You're not borrowing on it, but you're not paying it off, which is the same thing. Okay. The number of them that said I delayed paying off my home so that I could invest more. And that's how I became a millionaire. You know how many of them it was out of 10,000?

[Caller (Marta)]

Not very many.

[Dave Ramsey]

Zero. We never had one tell us that, that that's how they became a millionaire was that they leveraged their home into investments. Isn't that interesting? And yet the math that you bring up is actually accurate. I mean, there's, you know, you can borrow money.

[Jade Washaw]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or you might have a mortgage at 3% and you can make 10, 12, maybe 14% in the last 12 months. You can make 30% on an S and P. Okay. Which is not normal. But you know, you're 12%. I don't argue with it all the difference is that you're going to be paying taxes on the money unless you're investing it into a Roth. And, you know, you've also taken more risk because you're home. So something happens to people when they get their home paid off. The freedom that they sense in their relationships and their careers causes them to prosper more and faster than the difference in the interest rates. And so that's the only explanation I've got for it. And I will tell you this, here's an interesting thing you can do. Go ahead and pay off your house and if you hate it, just go get another mortgage.

[Caller (Marta)]

That's where I am. I really want to do that, but I'm also married to an accountant who said he knows the math. And here's the problem. I see it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me submit to him that he's doing a naive, primitive, incomplete math formula because his math formula does not include risk, and his math formula does not include taxes. And if he can quantify the risk. Exactly. And put it into a math formula, he's a better guy than I am and I'm a math nerd from now on. But it is a real risk because we can all honestly say the more debt you have, the more risk you have. Agreed.

[Caller (Marta)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And to not mathematically factor that into his formula makes his formula naive and incomplete. So I don't care if he's an accountant. He's wrong.

[Caller (Marta)]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the thing. I mean, now, how do you convince him of that? I don't know.

[Jade Washaw]

That's a different story.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've been convincing him is wrong since he's wrong since you got married. So maybe you can work on it.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. My biggest question for him would be, what is. What is his ultimate goal? And why are you guys doing this?

[Dave Ramsey]

His ultimate goal is bill wealth. And he thinks he's leveraging the money. Right? Am I right?

[Caller (Marta)]

Yes. Yes, you are right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

But I guess my question is, is it a. Let's say. Let's say he says, my. My goal is to have $8 million. Right. Is it a time frame? Is it a time frame he's so caught up on? Or is there a way that you can present that argument and say, hey, we can still get there. We're just going there in this order, and this is going to give me more peace. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Hannah, I. He was trained by the same people I was trained by. My finance professor was broke. What's wrong with that picture? A broke finance professor is like a shop teacher with missing fingers. My grandpa was not broke, and he was also an accountant. The reason he was not broke, though, is he avoided debt like the plague because he was a child of the Great Depression and he had no debt. No debt. No debt, no debt. No way, no debt. When I started going in debt like a crazy man to buy houses in my 20s, he said, I'm going to throw you out of the family. You couldn't be one of ours. You're too dumb. He didn't say that, but he made me feel that. There you go. But, yeah, I mean, because it's a so polar opposite of what that generation that had Common sense lived. So the problem, Hannah, is your husband was trained by a broke finance professor to believe an incomplete, inaccurate math formula. And you can play this back for him, but. And Jay, you know, it's an interesting conversation because we get this question, like, all the time, once a week, right? And when I first started this journey, this journey being common sense, money. I've got a finance degree. I've got letters and licenses of all kinds after my name that says I'm supposed to know something about money. But I'm 28 years old and I'm bankrupt because I borrowed 2 dad gun much money and I'm an idiot. And I got the opportunity to start over. My wife would have left, but she didn't have a car. I mean, it was awful. Horrible. And I was a brand new Christian. And so I started learning from this guy named Larry Burkett that the Bible had financial principles. And I read in there, the borrower is slave to the lender. And then I read in there, he who is impulsive exalts folly. And then I read in there the blessings and cursings to the house of Israel as they cross the Jordan after Moses has led them in the wilderness. The blessings are, you will be so wealthy, you will be a lender. The cursings are, you will be a borrower. Every single thing in scripture that I was reading as a brand new believer was negative about debt. And yet my intellect and academics all told me that to borrow money like her husband, the accountant. And I struggled with exactly the same thing. But I made the decision in those days on the basis of faith. I just said, okay, I tried it. I tried it the academic way. I went broke. And I'm gonna try this Bible stuff, and it's common sense. Now, years later, I discover, oh, they left out risk. They let the math formulas incomplete. These academics aren't so dad gum smart after all. Who knew? This is the Ramsay Show. Hey, you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks, and you probably already know which ones I mean, but I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fair Winds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years, and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000. It's easy to join and Fairwinds partners with more than 5,000 credit union locations around the country, so you can bank in person wherever you live. But if you prefer the online experience, you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. And while you're there, look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's Fair Winds F A I R W I n d s.org Ramsey Jade Wash All Ramsey personality is my co host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host the Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by why Refi if you've made student loan mistakes with zeros on the end? Well we're not judging you. We're here to help you and we're saying you need to do something about it. Contact why Refi if you have a defaulted private student loan, they'll reset the whole thing. It's unbelievable what they can do for you. So go to why Refi. That's the letter Y r e f y.com/Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Jade Washaw]

All right, today's question comes from Brody in Maryland. He says, is it unfair for me to feel angry that my wife wants a bigger house? We bought a 1400 square foot house last April. I sold all four of my investment properties that I worked very hard for to completely pay off our debt including the new house. Our house is a three bedroom two bath ranch with a backyard on a quiet street and it's in a good school district. So much sacrifice and saving went into making this happen. Now she wants a bigger house. Even though she said she wanted this particular house before we put the offer in. I don't see how I can make this happen without going into debt again and I will not go back into debt. Oh this is juicy. I listen I here's the thing. I do think that some people's personalities because you don't talk about any type of pay raise or situation where you guys lifestyle has changed drastically. But I do think there's some people that the goal post is constantly moving, right? It's like if I just get this I'll be happy, then they get that thing and they're not happy or if I just get this I'll be content and then it happens and they're not content because things don't make you happy and things don't make you content. You know, I think that they're fun, but they don't. They don't fill that void.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you can buy fun, but you can't buy happiness.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. And you can't buy contentment.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Jade Washaw]

And if you're on social media, which she might be every single day scrolling through and looking at what the influencers are doing and looking at what their friends, you know, their friends houses, or if she's spending all night watching hgtv. It. It is very difficult for some people to kind of go, well, that's them and that's okay, my life is fine. And truly, I think that that's what this is. I think she's got a contentment issue.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. Sidebar. What, what you stated there. I just saw an article the other day that the more hours you spend on social media, the typical. The cor. There's a direct correlation to the more credit card debt you have.

[Jade Washaw]

Oh, really? I'd love to see that. I know there is.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the more overspending you do because, you know, I do it and I have the money, but I'm like looking at some gun thing and I'm like, oh, I need one of those. Yeah, but if I had stayed off of that, you never. I wouldn't even have known it was there. And you know, but so I know other people do it and I teach this crap. So, you know, I mean, it's like, golly, if I'm doing it, it's got to be so. Okay, yeah, here's what happened, Brody. You guys need to reset your marriage relationship. This is not about a 1400 square foot house. And it's not about you being angry. You are acting like the daddy and she's acting like daddy's little princess. You know, I think daddy sold everything and did everything and sacrificed and worked his fingers to the bone. And what did he get? Bony fingers. And he got a house and he's real proud of the house. And now she walks in and goes, yeah, I bet there's the wallpaper.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so we need to reset this and instead let's be too like grown ups. So the conversation I'm going to have is. And actually we had it at our house, but in a little different way when we were about your all's age probably. I'll tell you about ours in a second. But the conversation I'm going to have is, okay, we are going to get aligned on our goals. Yeah. My goal is not to perpetually make an unhappy person happy. I am not going to get on that treadmill. We. You're A grown woman. I'm a grown man. We're going to sit down together. And here's one of mine, okay? I don't borrow money, period. Here's another one of mine. I like to provide nice things for my wife. Here's another one of mine. These are what you might say, Brody, okay? And she's saying, well, I want a house as nice as my friends. Okay, what can we do to get that? You don't work. You could work. You don't work much. You could work more. You could quit coach bagging it and we might save that money towards a house. I mean, what are we going to do as two grown up people to responsibly because I'm all in. I put all my chips in the table. I sold off everything I had to buy this house for us. And what you did though, was you did that without her. She was not aligned to that decision. She was giving you lip service. But this was not her idea. It was yours. Yeah, and now, now you're surprised that she's unhappy of your plan. That did not her include her. So this is like I gotta tell you, you know what about 10 years. I've been married 43 years. About 10 years into marriage. I don't buy Sharon jewelry any more that she hasn't seen.

[Jade Washaw]

Tell us why.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I picked out ugly crap.

[Jade Washaw]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

According to her. But I spent a lot of my beautiful money on her ugly crap. And then she didn't. She's like, well, I wasn't. I wasn't about that. And I'm like, oh, geez, well, let's just not do that again. So I don't mind if Sharon has. I mean, she's got earrings the size of a headlight, but she picked them out. And then she says they're heavy. They're that big. Okay? And I'm like, that's ridiculous.

[Jade Washaw]

It's a good problem to have, Sherry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay? Just get your little earlobes and do some earlobe lifts. Start doing some workouts there in the gym. Because you picked them out. So see, that's the difference. She. This girl's not involved in this.

[Jade Washaw]

Well, yeah, you can tell by the. The language. I sold all of my investment properties.

[Dave Ramsey]

So much sacrifice.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, he's the only savings. He feels like. He's the only one sacrificing. You can tell by the language whether.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's a paternal thing rather than an equal thing.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, yeah, you can hear.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think we got to reset and go. We're not going anywhere from here. We're not making any major decisions without both of us involved. And I learned that after I went broke because I made a lot of decisions that were stupid without talking to my wife. Proverbs 31 says, who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her. And here's my favorite part. He will have no lack of gain. And it's not in the Bible, but it might be in one version, like second hesitations. Right after no lack of gain, she no longer says, I told you so.

[Jade Washaw]

Oh, I kind of like being able.

[Dave Ramsey]

To say that anymore.

[Jade Washaw]

I like being able to say that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but you can't say that when you were in on the decision. All you can say is we together made a dumb butt decision. That's all you can say from this point forward. And that, that's it. You can't say you're an idiot. You can't do that anymore because now you have to use plural. It's change your pronouns. We are idiots. We did this. Right? And so that's what's going on here. Dude, you've got to reset this idea you have put your little Superman cape up of you're the papa and you're the provider and all this stuff. And she's just a little woman and you're going to, you're never going to make Scarlet O'Hara happy. It's not going to happen. So she's going to get on the same page and be like a grown woman and stuff and then she'll become happy.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, it's a weird balance of power.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a big deal, man. It's a big deal. This alignment in marriage is one of the things we find all the time in people's ability to get out of debt. People's, they succeed in their careers at a greater rate and their ability to build wealth because they're aligned on sacrificing and they make decisions together. The first time we did that after going broke was we finally saved up a little bit of money and I had $10,000. Sharon was driving a blue three tone Astro van. You remember those? Oh, 100% completely ugly. The carpet was covered in toddler goldfish from the third kid and it was nasty. This was a bad car. It was an embarrassing vehicle.

[Jade Washaw]

When they first came out, they were.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, well, this was not first come out. And she's like, I need an. I need a better car. We need to move up to a Suburban. And I was going to. I had 10,000 or $15,000 saved at the company. I was getting ready to do this investment. We were going to buy this thing and I was going to make 100,000 with this 15,000 down here. And she's like, we need to do a car. And you know what? We did both. But we did the car first and then we did the company. And it turns out now, all these years later, it was okay. But in the moment, aligning on that with two grownups was a big deal. It's a big deal. This is the Ramsey Show. Do you ever feel like you're finally making progress towards your goals only to get quickly distracted by something else in your feed? Well, that's why we created the Ramsey Network app, your single source for content that keeps you motivated. The Ramsey Network app is designed to keep you laser focused, focused on reaching your goals. Loaded with over 7,000 hours of Ramsey shows, this free app is the best place for uninterrupted content and no distractions. Plus, you can search specific questions to get more personalized content in seconds. So for the days you need some extra motivation, you'll have proven advice at your fingertips. It's time to get serious about your goals and shut out the distractions for good. Simply search Ramsey Network in the App Store or Google Play. If you're listening on a podcast, just click the link in the show notes to download our free Ramsey Network app. Today, live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washaw Ramsey, personality number one. Bestselling author of the book Money's Not a Math Problem. She's my co host today. Open phones here at Triple 882-55-5225. Scott's in Las Vegas. Hey, Scott, what's up?

[Caller (Marta)]

Hi, how are you? Dave, long time listener. I really appreciate you guys taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller (Marta)]

I came across a question today for investing pur on my Roth 401K. My coworkers and I were looking for next year and looking at setting things up and the question came up about if I were to put, let's say 15% of my income and I hit the IRS cap, let's say October or November, will that negatively, negatively affect how my company match for the remainder of the year where I'm not actually getting any money? I don't know if it's a number that's going to be a fixed number regardless. Will the company 6% match be the same if I hit it in October or if I were to Spread it out over smaller increments throughout the 26 paychecks.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a question for your company, your HR team, that's not a regular company.

[Caller (Marta)]

How they would be able to.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not a regular.

[Caller (Marta)]

I didn't know if it was a way to be able to calculate that, to be able to look at even previous because a couple years I had made, I'd hit that number in October and then the last two years let me have a little bit more money in my pocket throughout the course and I spread it out with a little bit lower number and let it hit the last paycheck in December. And I didn't know if that was going to be from the negative impact. If I were to just.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you could look at the total for that year, total invested by you, and then the total match and divide it and tell what the percentage was.

[Caller (Marta)]

Right, right, sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. And see, I would tell you what you're. Yeah, I mean, some companies match up to a certain amount amount. Some companies match all the way through. We match a percentage regardless of what you put in when. Regardless of when you put it in. And so I mean, I've got some high income earners that fully fund theirs in the first quarter.

[Caller (Marta)]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then they just don't, they don't have that because they can't. They max it out completely. They're not allowed to put any more than that in. And so not by us, but by regulation. And then we match that as they do it, whenever they do it, whatever they do same. But that's a company decision as to how the match is done. And if you have to drag it out to get the full match, I would drag it out. Makes sense if you need them and.

[Caller (Marta)]

Find out how they distribute that money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If you need to do 12 even months to get the full match, then do the 12 even months because the match is more valuable than the early portion of the investing. But that brings up another interesting thing, Jade, that sometimes people ask is, should I, you know, should I spread my personal Roth over 12 months or just do it in January? You know, you should do it in January is the answer mathematically, because the entire amount is earning throughout the entire year rather than a portion of it earning each month more.

[Jade Washaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so. Well, what if the market went down? Well, if the market goes down, none of this works. So it only works when it's going up. And overall we know it's going to go up. It could go up or down in the, you know, short term, but yeah. So, Scott, that's an HR and payroll and whoever's managing your 401k at your company question. And you could get a hint before you even call them by looking at the percentage they gave or the dollars they gave last year as a percentage of what you put in last year and see if that matches their standard match rate. And that would tell you, you know, if you're looking like 6%, then you go, okay, you know, I put in $10,000 irregularly, but they still put in, you know, 6% of that 600 bucks. And so, you know, or whatever the number is. But that's. You can still look at that and figure that out. So. Very cool. Very cool. Good stuff, man. That's a great question, by the way. And here's the neat thing about all this. People like him. It's not the answer to this technical question that matters. What matters is he's actually thinking about it.

[Jade Washaw]

I was going to say that, you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Know, most people don't think about it.

[Jade Washaw]

They're not. Yeah, they don't think about it. So the fact that he's maxing it out, the fact that he's thinking through that is really, really great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, really. The intentionality, you know, one of the things, I've got a friend that his dad was the governor of Tennessee in the 1950s, and so he's in his 70s now, but he was a little kid in short pants in the governor's mansion in the 1950s. And I had a great discussion with him one night. He said the discussion in our family table growing up was politics. And he said, you know what rich people talk about at the family table? Generosity and investing and value purchases, not cheapo purchases.

[Jade Washaw]

All the important things you can do.

[Dave Ramsey]

With money, long term decision. And so a rich kid grows up with a silver spoon because their parents got rich because they were concentrating on money. Not obsessed by it, not worshiping it. Like my friend's family didn't worship politics. They weren't obsessed by it, but they were in that world. It's what they did. And it made me realize that's how, you know, if you grow up. I've got a cousin's a car dealer and guess what? He owns a bunch of cars. I wonder why.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, I think you end up talking about the things that are of value to you in your life, whether it's your religious beliefs, moral beliefs, hobbies, whatever that is. That's what you talk about, that's what you pass down.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you need to different. You need to be thoughtful about that. But that's the same thing of this, of Scott being intentional. What's him and his friends sitting around the lunch table talking about? Not other people's careers, carrying a football.

[Jade Washaw]

Well, let me tell you about their.

[Dave Ramsey]

Careers and how they're going to build wealth.

[Jade Washaw]

I think that's one of the. I mean, we kind of talked about this early, but if you're. If you're on social media and you know more about P. Diddy and you know more about other celebrities finances and you know more about what you know so and so is driving and you don't even know about your own stuff. You don't know the state of your own affairs. You don't care that much about your own financial situation, about your own relationships. That's. Yeah, it's a red flag.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's backwards.

[Jade Washaw]

It really is more into pop culture than your own culture.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was at a Titans football game one time, a long, long time ago, and the seats were not great. And the guy in front of us was a large man, spacious, without a shirt, and had painted him his big self blue with a big titan thing on his chest. And he yelled and screamed like the world was coming to an end. On every play he cussed the coach.

[Jade Washaw]

You didn't like that?

[Dave Ramsey]

And on every play he cussed the players. And I told my wife, I said, if he was as enthusiastic about his career or his marriage as he is about watching these young kids down here playing football, right. He would. He would probably have a good life. Wrong. Wrong dose. You know?

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. You got to channel it to the right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cause I mean, I'm sorry, I get it. If you're in college and you and your buddies all have too many beers and paint letters on your chest and take your clothes off or whatever, I get that. Take your shirts off anyway. I get that. I don't get 56 years old. Yeah. And obese. I don't get that one. Okay. It's just gross. All right. I'm just saying it. Just saying it. For all the rest of us out there, this is the Ramsey Show.

[Caller (Hannah)]

Hey, guys, George Camel here for Delete me. I saw a headline the other day that made me squirm. One third of the US population's background info is now public. We're talking 115 million Americans. Personal info out there in cyberspace for data brokers to buy, sell and trade, like Pokemon cards. And data theft happens all the time. Data brokers get your info, like your name, address, phone number, even your kids names, and then boom, it's available to Online bad guys. But to that Deleteme says, not so fast. That's because Deleteme finds and removes your personal info from hundreds of these data broker sites. And they send you an easy to read report showing you exactly what they did and how much time they've saved you. What I love most is that Delete me reduces the risk for scams for me and my family. Not to mention that we get fewer creepy ads and robocalls. So it's time to take control of your online privacy. Their individual delete me plans start as low as 9 bucks a month and you can get 20% off if you go to joindelete me.com Ramsay that's joindeleteme.com Ramsay. Hey, guys. George Camel here. And it's that time of year again. The store shelves are packed with Little Debbie's Christmas trees, matching pajamas for you and your dog, you know who you are. And giant inflatable Santas for the yard. I'm not mad about that. And speaking of inflation, Americans are about to spend close to a trillion dollars this Christmas. And get this, one third of that spending will be swiped on credit cards. Yikes. Now I get it. You want the holidays to feel magical and you want to have a good time. But trust me, there is nothing magical about staring down a mountain of credit card debt come January. So here's the deal. If you don't want January you to hate December you, I've got a money hack for you. Download the EveryDollar app. It's free to get started and you could find an extra $400 of margin in your first month of using it. See, with EveryDollar, you'll keep your holiday spending under control. You'll track your expenses, you'll make a plan, you'll stay accountable and maybe even set yourself up with some sweet New Year goals. So skip the post Christmas regret and download EveryDollar for free in the app store today. Your future self will thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jade Washaw Ramsey personality is my co host today. Sydney is in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hi, Sydney. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller (Marta)]

Hi.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi.

[Caller (Marta)]

Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller (Marta)]

So I'm kind of new to the Dave Ramsey universe, but I am currently like working through the steps currently on step three. Cool. And earlier this year, I got President Biden student loan forgiveness and a refund check with that. So I am completely consumer debt free outside my mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, stop just a second. Stop. Stop just a second. Because President Biden has issued several press releases, but the all of the debt forgiveness was all Programs that were already in existence. He took credit for them, but they were already there. Aside from that, what was the forgiveness that you got? What type? What was the situation?

[Caller (Marta)]

Just my student loans. My school was deemed predatory or whatever.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's been in place for 20 years. Schools that are predatory and go broke. The student loans are forgiven for the last 20 years.

[Jade Washaw]

And you should, by the way, and there should be.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that is a standard for giving. So the student loan that you took out with this predatory trade schools, what they typically are, or some kind of online school or something like that, they took out. They gave you student loans. They were federally insured student loans and the federal government forgave those because they deemed the school to be predatory. Right?

[Caller (Marta)]

Yep.

[Jade Washaw]

What'd you get back?

[Dave Ramsey]

How much did you had. You paid into it and they gave you that back? That's what the refund check was.

[Caller (Marta)]

Yes. And so I use that to pay off my car, my 401k loan that I use to do my mortgage. I know that's like against the rules. I learned that now, you know, I get into that, then that's okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay.

[Caller (Marta)]

And paid off my credit card. So I've been consumer debt free all year since then.

[Dave Ramsey]

Except the 401k.

[Caller (Marta)]

No, I paid that off as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good.

[Jade Washaw]

Where else did you get back?

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go.

[Jade Washaw]

How much was it?

[Caller (Marta)]

I got like 16, 17,000 back.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And that cleared up some of the remainder mess. All right, so let me think here.

[Caller (Marta)]

I.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, all right, so the student loan was taken out, the money was given to the predatory school. The predatory school goes broke, you are forgiven the student loan and they refunded you what you had paid on the student loan. I don't think that type of loan forgiveness is taxable. Most loan forgiveness is taxable, but this is a different program because you did not actually receive the money here. The money you received back was your money you paid against the loan. Yeah, that was already your money. Yeah. So if you take out a credit card loan and you go buy something for yourself or you put the money in your pocket. Right. And then they forgive that, that's taxable, but you got the benefit of that. You did not get any benefit here. I don't think this is taxable, but you're going to have to check with a tax professional to be sure.

[Caller (Marta)]

Yeah, that's what I wanted to see if you guys had any insight on. Because I'm currently getting laid off and my plan is to file my taxes like first thing next year to Help bridge any potential employment. I very smart thing to run into. But now I'm like, if I'm going to get taxed on that, do I wait?

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think you're going to get.

[Caller (Marta)]

Taxed on that before then.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think you're going to. Here's the way. Let's get you a pure answer. Here's the way to do it. Go to Ramsaysolutions.com and we have endor, we call endorsed local providers. They're people that we have vetted and we are comfortable with their professionalism and the quality of care that they give. One of them is in the area of tax. So you're looking for a tax elp Endorse local provider@ramsey solutions.com in your area of Cincinnati. There will be one or two or three of them. Okay. Holler at one of them and talk to them about preparing your taxes and ask them on the phone if this type of loan forgiveness is taxable. Tell them Dave said he doesn't think it is, but for them to double check it.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, and I see something on here that says, and I don't know if this was a part of American Rescue because this was kind of in place before that.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, this is not American Rescue.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, but it says that if they're discharged between January 1st and December 31st of 2025, they are not taxable. So you shall see.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I, I don't think you're gonna get taxed on this one. Okay, okay, good question. Good question. And lesson learned. Politics aside, politicians tend to take credit for things they didn't do. It's part of being a politician. And like when I was interviewing President Trump before the election, one of the things I told him was people like me that own small businesses and actually do create jobs. It kind of pisses us off when you politicians say you create jobs. Because you politicians don't create nothing. All you can do is create an environment for those of us that actually create jobs to function. And he kind of laughed and goes, well, that's right. But then, you know, the next week he comes out and talks about all the jobs he created. But that's, that's politicians and Biden didn't forgive these loans either. This, this program has been in place, God, since student loans have been there. Predatory lending. So like a truck driving school that goes broke or a tech school, you go get a computer certification. But there are just some of times they're like hair care or a massage therapist or something like that, and they, they'll get student loans going in these things and they can gin them up and they make a ton of money and then they turn the key and walk away with all the money in their pocket. They're. They're scams. They're fronts is what they are. And they pop up and then they die.

[Jade Washaw]

They pop up and then daytime television, if you're watching.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

Judge Mathis or, you know, all the. I feel like that's all that's on TV are these. I don't want to call them education institutes, but, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's what they call themselves.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so we would be doing it as a Saturday Night Live skit. But.

[Caller (Hannah)]

Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

But.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that the federal student loan forgiveness has been there for those types of situations for at least 20 years. At least.

[Jade Washaw]

Well, listen, if you really want to get technical, it's never an administration forgiving debt. It's taxpayers forgiving your debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't get the choice, we just get the bill.

[Jade Washaw]

That's what I'm saying. Like, let's, let's, let's put the, the check on who is really.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that, that's it. That's for sure. Yeah. Anytime the government. What was it Reagan said? If the government says. If somebody says, I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Yeah, run. Yeah, that's, that's the bottom line there. And that's either party. I'll just tell you. So.

[Jade Washaw]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, this is. But that, that, that's the thing to remember. And just either way, the good news is, by the way, if you. Pat, if someone passed away in your family, the student loans are forgiven. It's been that way 30 years. If someone is permanently disabled, their student loans are forgiven. It's been that way for 30 years. That, that's not a new program. It's been since I've been on the air, you know, that we've been talking about this. So that's the stuff. But either way, you do have to deal with the tax question. So Sidney's smart to ask that question about the taxes, I think. I'm pretty sure you're not going to get taxed. But don't take Dave Ramsey's tax advice. I suck at it.

[Jade Washaw]

Here it is. I found it. Borrower defense. So this is a program that eliminates federal student loan belonging to borrowers who their college misled them or if their school engaged in misconduct, if they violated any state laws. The IRS has issued notices for these and they are not taxable as income.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, there you go. That's according to Google. So also, also check that out because it's on the Internet and Abraham Lincoln said everything on the Internet's true.

[Jade Washaw]

So it's a good place to start.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's the thing you got to remember. But that's, that's probably at you. Probably. You found that on the IRS site or.

[Jade Washaw]

No, this is a, a article from Yahoo Finance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So once again, please don't take their advice or mine. Please get a professional to be sure. But it sounds like that we're onto something there. Sounds like we're on the right track. So good stuff. Very, very cool. All right, ladies and gentlemen, that's how we do it. Listen, the way the student loans go away. Jade, how'd your student loans go away?

[Jade Washaw]

Work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, there's that. It's gotta work. It's a new program. It's a brand new program. It's out. It's called wk.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, it's called you wake up in the morning, you go to work and you stay at work all day. And then you take the money and you pay off your loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Jade Washaw]

For a long time.

[Dave Ramsey]

You ought to get a radio show.

[Jade Washaw]

You don't have a. You don't do a whole lot other in between. You just work and pay off the loans and work and pay off the loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

My grandmother used to say there's a great place to go when you're broke to work. I love it. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. I've never done this before, but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, field of greens. Each fruit and vegetable in field of greens is selected by doctors to support heart, liver and kidney health plus metabolism for healthy weight. And your doctor will notice your improved health or field of greens will give you your money back. I can get behind a promise like that. Go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsay and get 15% off with promo code Ramsay. Fieldofgreens.com Ramsay hey, listen up, guys. Black Friday deals start right now. Yep, you heard that right. You don't have to wait until Black Friday or even leave the house to get great deals. On our most popular gifts. You can get our best selling hardcover books for just $12 and audiobooks for just 8. Give like no one else this season with gifts that actually mean something to your loved ones. Go to Ramsaysolutions.com store to shop the deals today. That's Ramsaysolutions.com store. Jade Wash, our Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host. Today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage Alex and Brenda are with us. Hey, guys. How are you? Good. Welcome, welcome. Where do you all live?

[Caller (Paula)]

We're in Parker, Colorado, just a little bit south of Denver.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, cool. Well, welcome. Good to have you all the way over to Nashville to do a debt free scream. How much have you paid off?

[Caller (Scott)]

So, Dave, we paid off $305,000 or 305.

[Dave Ramsey]

$450,000. Sorry, how long did that take?

[Caller (Paula)]

Three years, two months and 13 days.

[Dave Ramsey]

Three years and two months. Wow. And your range of income during that time?

[Caller (Scott)]

Our range of income was 148,000 to 240,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Nice jump. What do y'all do for a living?

[Caller (Paula)]

I am full time with the Colorado.

[Caller (Scott)]

Army National Guard and I'm a civilian with the Army National Guard as a cost accountant.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, very good. Very good. Well, thanks for your service. Well done, you guys. Good work. Very fun. What kind of Debt was this? 305,000.

[Caller (Paula)]

It was our mortgage.

[Caller (Hannah)]

I knew it paid off your house.

[Jade Washaw]

I could tell by the smile.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. Wow. You guys are so weird. I love it. Weirdos. Good work. How much is this house worth?

[Caller (Paula)]

850,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you two?

[Caller (Scott)]

We're in our early 30s.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. And you have a paid for $850,000 house? Yes, sir, man. How much in your nest egg in your 401ks in retirement?

[Caller (Paula)]

Right around 300 as of right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Wow. So you're millionaires in your early 30s?

[Caller (Paula)]

We are.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm so proud of you.

[Caller (Paula)]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Look at you too. Way to go, man. When you got married, how broke were you?

[Caller (Paula)]

We are actually fairly new to this merch. We got married about four years ago. Kind of on this journey as singles.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Okay.

[Caller (Paula)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. So you just took off and did this quick then. Well, tell us your Ramsay story. How'd you get plugged into this three years and two months ago?

[Caller (Scott)]

Well, she started a long time before I did. I was kind of messing around and then she gave me.

[Caller (Paula)]

Your total money maker.

[Caller (Scott)]

Money maker.

[Caller (Paula)]

When we were deciding if we were going to date or not, I was like, read this book and let's talk about it. And people decide if we want to keep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I was talking, you better write, I have the right answers on the next dinner.

[Caller (Scott)]

So it was funny because I read it and I was like, oh, I'm kind of doing all this stuff anyways. Guy kind of got fed up with being broke. And then I was like, oh, this is easy enough. So being kind of a money person anyways, I was like, all right. Well, this is Simple. I read the book, I had the seven steps, and I was just like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let's do it. Here we go. I love it. Very cool. Very cool. So you guys met at the National Guard, I assume?

[Caller (Paula)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, very good. And man, that's a great situation you're in after just four years of marriage in your early 30s. But it sounds like, Brenda, you had a head start on it.

[Caller (Paula)]

Yes. I grew up with parents who didn't do debt. And so when I moved out, I just. I didn't do debt. I didn't have a hole to dig out of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did y'all buy the house after marriage?

[Caller (Paula)]

We did.

[Dave Ramsey]

We.

[Caller (Paula)]

As soon as we got married, we became a family of five. We had his son and my two kids the day we got married. So I lived in a tiny little house, and we went out and we put over 50% down on our house and decided just to kick it. So we made this kind of like our baby step two.

[Caller (Marta)]

Okay.

[Caller (Paula)]

Just took off running with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty intense then.

[Caller (Paula)]

Yes.

[Caller (Scott)]

Yeah. A big part of this was that we wanted to teach fpu, which we had done in the past, and we just actually finished doing a week ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nice.

[Caller (Paula)]

Yeah, we just finished our second course.

[Caller (Scott)]

So we wanted to kind of be like, practice what you preach. And because we didn't have a step two together, we kind of treated, you know, paying off the mortgage like our step two, even though it's not exactly advised.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, that's all right. I get it. Alex, what'd you pay off beforehand? Because for you, that was kind of the change.

[Caller (Scott)]

I was working a credit card and my car, paying those off. And I think together that was 19,000.

[Jade Washaw]

Okay. Wow. So Brenda put the screws to it. Yeah, she said not allowed. Very cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thanks for. Thanks for teaching Financial Peace University. That had to be a great class. You guys had to be like Cloud 9.

[Caller (Paula)]

Yeah, we're pretty excited.

[Caller (Scott)]

Yeah, we. We taught it once and then we. We took the most motivated couple that was there and we. We were their co leaders the next time around. So this last time that we just finished.

[Caller (Paula)]

Yeah, Matthew and Amber, they were our co leaders this time. They did great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I love it. Build to build the next generation of coordinators. Good for you. Good for you. All right. When you're coordinating a class or when someone asks how you're a millionaire at age early 30s with a paid for $850,000 house and you don't make $2 million a year either, when someone asks how did you do that, what do you tell them? The key to Getting out of debt.

[Caller (Paula)]

Is hard work for sure. I think between the two of us, we had about 13 jobs. We each had a solid job and then we took on several side jobs. He can tell you what most of them were.

[Caller (Scott)]

So not all the same time, but over the three years they were doing this. I worked at Home Depot for a summer.

[Dave Ramsey]

We.

[Caller (Scott)]

We both worked delivering packages for Amazon. I was a tax assistant at our CPA office. We both did landscaping. I did Uber and Lyft. I was reservist in the National Guard. I did handyman work. She sold items on nextdoor. So it was a whole bunch of. Not all at once, but like there was always something going on just to kind of keep it new and different. So I love that.

[Jade Washaw]

So what happens next? You've got a paid for house, you don't have a payment in the world. What are you planning?

[Caller (Paula)]

I think our next thing is probably cars. We drive very old, very used cars.

[Jade Washaw]

What are you gonna get?

[Caller (Paula)]

Nothing new, but new to us. Probably a newish or newer minivan. And then he needs a nicer commuter car. He's driving an 06 car with very many miles.

[Caller (Scott)]

Something from this decade.

[Jade Washaw]

So, yeah, I love that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I first want to move up to this decade. That's a good move. I like it. That's good. Very cool. Well, I mean, you drove those beaters and now you'll never have to again. Make sure you take pictures of them. We will before they leave because I. I've got pictures of every car I owned except one. And I really wish I had that one.

[Jade Washaw]

Is it the original?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's one of those beaters that I had. Somehow I managed to not. That was back when, you know, when we actually had film and stuff like that in cameras. So. Anyway, anyway, Sidebar. But yeah. Good. Good job, you guys. Who was cheering you on as you went?

[Caller (Scott)]

We have a whole list.

[Caller (Paula)]

We have a ton of cheerleaders. So Matthew and Amber, like I mentioned, are our co hosts on Financial Peace.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get the little cheat sheet.

[Caller (Paula)]

Yes.

[Jade Washaw]

It's okay to look at it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can look at it. I look at them all the time.

[Caller (Paula)]

My youngest brother Lloyd and his wife Haley are on this journey and they're right behind us. And baby step two, Paul and Felicity and Sean and Rosa in our class in fpu cheering us along and also learning along with us. And then several co workers. We have Ms. Cicely, Ms. Miranda, Ms. Alita and Ms. Jennifer.

[Caller (Scott)]

That her mother, Linda.

[Caller (Paula)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you have anybody telling you not to do this?

[Caller (Scott)]

A couple people kept saying we're crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, probably.

[Caller (Paula)]

I don't have any.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was the most lucrative side hustle, One that made the most money?

[Caller (Paula)]

Probably Amazon Flex. Just because they give you blocks of time and if you finish it early, you get paid for that full block. Whether or not. So we would take our older kids along with us and they would throw us packages from the back. We could finish a three hour route in an hour and a half and then go pick up another one.

[Jade Washaw]

Which one did you dislike the most?

[Caller (Scott)]

Probably Amazon Flex.

[Caller (Paula)]

It was a lot of work.

[Caller (Scott)]

There were days that we would be up at 3:30 in the morning. We'd go, oh, actually it was earlier than that. We'd be there at 3:30 and then we go to our real jobs at, you know, 6:37 and then sometimes after.

[Caller (Paula)]

That back to another Amazon road, another shift.

[Caller (Scott)]

So it was crazy. Both of us sometimes work at 90 hour plus weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

And was it worth it?

[Caller (Paula)]

It was totally worth it. The grass really does feel different under your feet.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. Tell somebody why? Because people call in all the time and they're like, you know, I've got a low interest rate. It's not. They feel like it's not worth it to them. But here you are doing it and you sacrifice to do it.

[Caller (Scott)]

I'm just a simplifier kind of person. So it's just one less thing to worry about. And now we really get to, you know, put it towards our retirement accounts so we're able to max out our Roths. And I think five years ago I was looking my, you know, net amounts and I was like, I wasn't even making this amount, you know, five years ago. And that's after putting in, you know, Max Roth contributions and having other things come out. So it's just, it's a big thing out of the way.

[Caller (Paula)]

And now I get to stay home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, really?

[Caller (Paula)]

That's a. I'm not yet, but I'm in the process.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow. Very good. Well, I guess so you're millionaires. That's neat. Love it. I'm so proud of y'all. They're amazing. I mean, in their early 30s, so well done. All right. Are the kiddos gonna scream with you?

[Caller (Paula)]

They are.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let's get them up here, introduce them, give us their names and ages.

[Caller (Paula)]

Oh, we might have a sad one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, did we lose one?

[Jade Washaw]

Here they come.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, the little one. Sad. That's okay. Oh, look at how cute that dress.

[Jade Washaw]

Oh my God.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's all right. How. That's perfect. All right, Alex and Brenda, Addie, Liam, Logan and Annalee, 305,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. All right.

[Caller (Scott)]

Three, two, one.

[Caller (Paula)]

We're debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Trying to scare the little one to death. That's good. Baby steps. Millionaires and their early 30s. What they do, follow the stuff we teach. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the Money and relationships tour with Dr. John DeLoney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City in April, April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more [e-mail] tour. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, my co host. Today. Ramsey's Black Friday sale is going on right now. Get early access to some of our best deals of the year. Meaningful gifts for family and friends as low as $8. Our best selling books like the total money makeover. Baby steps. Millionaires Own your past, change your future only $12. Audio books and ebooks only $8. Rachel Cruz's wallet right now, the in black and Camel and brown and champagne are on sale. Questions for human cards on sale at just $12, including the new Christmas edition. Check out the Black Friday sales and you can check out everything, including Jade's book. Money's not a math problem. Everything's in there. Check it all out. All kinds of T shirts. We got a lot of fun stuff there. You're on this journey. You gotta have some fun with it. Ramseysolutions.com store or click the link if you're on podcast or YouTube.

[Jade Washaw]

This is nice.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is nice. It's a little champagne action there. I heard that's what they call it. Grand Rapids is in Michigan. It is. Dan is there. Hi, Dan, how are you? Hey, Dave.

[Caller (Marta)]

Doing good. How you doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller (Marta)]

Okay, make a long story short, I'm in between baby step one and baby step two. You know, things going good. Stuff stuff. Breaks. Spend $1,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotta rebuild.

[Caller (Marta)]

Baby step one. I got my girlfriend. She's kind of starting to listen to you too. We want to be married, have a family. She has $21,000 in credit card debt. She found this company, accredited debt relief. They offered us a payment of $342 a month for 48 months. That's to pay off the credit cards. The problem is that's only $16,400. I don't understand how this could work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, because it's the same as filing bankruptcy. It's going to destroy her credit. Here's the way they work. Stay away from them. Stay away from them. But here's why. Okay? The way they work is when you sign up with them, they take over all of your payments, and the first thing they do is they stop making any payments, and they let all the credit cards go into default if they're not there already. And so they go into default. And the credit card companies then will settle a bad debt. Now, she will be in collections on every one of them, and then they'll settle the bad debt for a lesser amount than is owed and set up payments on that. And that's how they know that they can get you a $16,000 deal. By the way, if you did this yourself and just quit paying for a year, which I don't recommend, same thing would happen. Then you can call them and settle for probably a quarter on the dollar. So you probably settle all this for five or six thousand bucks, but that is also not paying your bill when you're able to, number one. Number two, you've completely destroyed your credit. I mean, nasty, bad, nasty. You got a bunch of outstanding bad debt at that point. And that's the way these people work. And it basically does the same thing to your credit as filing Chapter 13 bankruptcy does. You can do the same thing with the Chapter 13 bankruptcy. You can file with the Chapter 13 bankruptcy. If you qualify for the bankruptcy under guidelines, then you can pay a percentage. Not 100%, but you could pay. In this case, you said 16 out of 21, right?

[Caller (Marta)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you could pay. So you could pay 75 cents on the dollar. You could agree to pay 75% to my unsecured creditors in my chapter 13. That's not 48 months. That's 60 months. But they could do the exact same thing there. And it'll do the exact same thing to her credit. Only technically she's filed for bankruptcy. And the other one, she didn't technically file for bankruptcy, but it does the same amount of damage, if not more, to your reputation into the process. Plus, you're screwed. You're in debt $21,000 for 48, for four years when you could have paid it off by next Christmas working five jobs.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. Why can't you just pay it off? Why can't you just work more and pay it off? Tell us more about that. What's the income?

[Caller (Marta)]

I work for the railroad. I'm on 12 right now, which is legally the most I can work. She's a teacher and she's doing. Starting to do Amazon Flex, but she has a daughter. What the death.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's she teach?

[Caller (Marta)]

You know, he's like the director of a bunch of different, like, daycares. She used to be a daycare teacher, but she's not like the director of a bunch of those. She makes about 55,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, now, instead of doing. Now that I've explained to you and answered your question what it does, I'll give you a suggestion rather than doing that, okay? And what I'll do is I'm going to give you Financial Peace University and every dollar plus for both of you, she's going to have her account. You're going to have your account because you're not married, okay? And I want both of you to get on a detailed, tight budget. Don't spend any money on anything. Live on beans and rice. No eating out. No vacations and working extra. If she has a teaching degree and a talent in a particular subject, like math or English, she can do tutoring and make more than Amazon Flex.

[Caller (Marta)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If she can get some students from the local elementary or local junior high or whatever, and she teaches math in the afternoons or the math in the evenings after she gets home, I mean, you can make 30 to $50 an hour doing that. Yeah.

[Jade Washaw]

Child care, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

And your kids sit in the other room while you're doing this. They come to your house. That's a great idea. Yeah. I've got a friend that's a reading specialist that makes bank while her kids sit in the other room and on the side. And I mean, it's serious money there because they got reading problems. And, man, she's. Wow, it's really cool stuff. So anyway, yeah, that's what I would add to this and say, all right, we're going to increase our income. We're going to tighten down everything. We're going to have a new thought. We're going to get all of these credit cards tonight and have plastic surgery, and we're going to pay them at 100%. We're going to pay them so fast that they're in our rearview mirror and we get a life. But 48 months, man, that's like, ridiculous. That's like saying, I'm going to jail. You get to go to jail for four years and you barely get to, you know, you bring the food and slide it under the bars, you know, no, thank you. I don't want to live like That I want to get. Geez. No, man.

[Jade Washaw]

The goal needs to be if you can find an extra. If you can make a goal that we're going to make, or she's going to make 1700 extra dollars. Find it every single month. What does it look like? Is it Amazon Flex?

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it tutoring that pays it off in one year?

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. Is it childcare?

[Dave Ramsey]

And is it. Is it a cut in the budget? She makes 55 already.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, that's the kind of stuff we're doing, Dan. So we're going to help you with that. It's the hard way, but it's the fast way. It's deep sacrifice, but it's in your rearview mirror. And you get to have a great life on the other side of it versus signing up for a long slug through the mud. That's what we're doing. I don't. And at the end of it, at the end of the story, you're still screwed because you just completely destroyed everything as far as credit goes. So she's probably gonna have some dings on her credit. Probably already does, but nothing like what you'd be signing up for if you go to those comp type of a company. So we do not recommend them at all. Hang on the line. The team will pick up and we will get you signed up for Financial Peace University. Get her signed up. You guys, you can go through the class together, but you need your own separate budgets because you're not married yet and you live. You keep your finances separate until you're married. So. Good question, sir. I appreciate you checking on her behalf. Wow, those things are. You see them on cable TV and, man, there's a couple of them have been fined like 400. I mean, one of them got fined, like, was. It can't be 400 million. Was that the fine? There's some ridiculous one that Tom Selleck endorsed, and the Federal Trade Commission hammered them with fines a couple of years ago because they just. They're there. It's just a scummy side of the world.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah, it's scummy. And I don't. I don't like situations where you take control from you and give it to someone else to do things on your behalf.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what they're doing is acting like I didn't pay my bill so that they can get a discount.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, that and trashing my stuff in the meantime. But we're. We're in the. We're in the debt relief business, just like Dave Ramsey. No, you're not. It's not. Not even, not even close. Not even close to the same thing. So you have to stay away from those things. And they call themselves also debt consolidation.

[Jade Washaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's not debt consolidation at all. You're not consolidating debt. Consolidating debt is when you get one debt and pay off all the others with the one debt. Well, you don't pay it off. You move it to the one debt. But that's like a home equity loan. That's debt consolidation but not paying them and you paying these goobers one payment. That's not consolidation at all. And it's really not debt relief.

[Jade Washaw]

No, it's not relief.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's. Well, at. At the end. I guess it is in one sense, but g wonder what the percentage of people that complete it is. Probably pretty low.

[Jade Washaw]

That's a good question. That be interesting to look at.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You don't finish it, you're really screwed. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books.

[Caller (Hannah)]

Hey, you're still here. What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the app store, Google Play store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right. For free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. Alright, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.