Building Wealth Is Simple (But Not Easy)

Summary

The Ramsey Show – "Building Wealth Is Simple (But Not Easy)"

Date: March 5, 2026
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-host: Rachel Cruze

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey and his daughter/co-host Rachel Cruze take calls from listeners facing a range of financial struggles, from overwhelming business debt and disastrous investments to marital money secrets and the desire to become stay-at-home parents. The central message throughout: while the path to wealth is straightforward—spend less than you make, avoid debt, and invest for the long haul—sticking to these principles requires discipline, humility, and a willingness to confront mistakes head-on. Dave and Rachel offer their signature mix of tough love, practical advice, and encouragement, illustrating that building wealth is simple, but not easy.

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Key Topics and Caller Highlights

1. Business Debt and The Perils of Debt Consolidation (Call with Steve – 00:05–08:54)

• Caller Steve in Cleveland borrowed $90,000 for his deck and carpentry business, expecting to scale during a slow season. Sales slumped, and the debt became unmanageable.
• Steve considered a debt consolidation program but called on his wife’s suggestion.

Key Insights

• Dave’s core advice: Never borrow to expand a business; instead, use profits. Debt consolidation for business loans is often as credit-damaging as bankruptcy.
• Rachel on consolidation: Most companies default on payments, trashing your credit, and then renegotiate—essentially mimicking bankruptcy.
• Dave: “The magic sauce you thought was marketing…turns out, listening to your sales numbers, you were the magic sauce.”
• Steve is advised to outwork the situation: ramp up sales, work overtime, live extremely frugal (“beans and rice”), and pay off the debt aggressively—aim for a 12-month turnaround.

Notable Quote

"The way out of it is you. I think you have a golden hammer and I'd swing it."
—Dave Ramsey (07:04)

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2. Personal Investments Gone Wrong – Focusing on Behavior, Not Luck (Call with Kevin – 11:34–19:52)

• Caller Kevin (30, Austin, TX) lost $34,000 in penny stocks on a friend’s tip, moved in with his mother, has significant car debt, and is frustrated with stalled progress.
• Situation clarifies: His real problem isn’t the lost investment, but two car loans totaling $50,000 ($1,200/month!) on a $60,000 income, with his wife not working.

Key Insights

• Sell the cars, buy cheap replacements, prioritize paying off debt before investing.
• Rachel illustrates: Had Kevin invested those car payments from ages 30 to 67 in solid mutual funds at 12%, he’d have nearly $10 million.
• Both spouses should work if possible—especially with no kids.

Notable Quotes

“You’re feeling 90% of your shame over the penny stocks and 10% on the cars. I want you to flip that.”
—Dave Ramsey (18:51)

“To build true wealth… you live on less than you make. You don't go borrow money, you pay yourself.”
—Rachel Cruze (18:24)

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3. Should Wealth Be Left in a Trust? Teaching Heirs to Be Good Stewards (Call with Ken – 22:01–30:56)

• Caller Ken (retired, net worth $3.5M) asks if placing wealth in a trust protects his son.
• Dave shares how his assets are mostly in LLCs and trusts—a structure better for liability than for ‘saving’ heirs from irresponsibility.

Key Insights

• No structure can protect wealth from an irresponsible heir; most important is instilling values.
• Living trusts are mainly for probate avoidance and must be funded to work; consultation with a good estate attorney is essential.

Notable Quote

“Ultimately, the thing that protects you much, much more than that is to teach your son how to behave... If he's just irresponsible and immature, you can't do enough to protect him from that.”
—Dave Ramsey (24:00)

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4. Marital Financial Unity: Why Separate Finances Don't Work (Call with Melinda – 33:21–42:43)

• Caller Melinda just started Financial Peace University; she and her husband are debating whether to combine finances.
• Melinda wants to keep joint savings off-limits; husband wants to use it to knock out debts and build momentum.

Key Insights

• Unifying money is crucial for marital harmony and financial success, per Ramsey research and experience.
• Couples with combined finances “go all the way to being millionaires”—separate money = higher chances of failure and resentment.

Notable Quotes

“The couples that do it the way you’re trying to do it fail... the ones that actually win and go all the way to being millionaires... work 100% joint. They don’t have any ‘yours and mine,’ only ‘ours.’”
—Dave Ramsey (35:12)

“If you're too well-bodied adults, both of you should be working.”
—Rachel Cruze (19:34)

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5. Solar Panel Nightmare: When a Warranty Dies with the Company (Call with Mike – 44:44–50:14)

• Caller Mike in Boston bought a home, inherited a solar panel deal; the company went bankrupt, warranty is void, but $50,000 loan remains.
• The new loan holder disclaims responsibility for the warranty.

Key Insights

• Dave’s advice: Negotiate a payoff for pennies on the dollar (start at $10,000), threaten legal action ("double up your fist"), as the debt buyer is in a weak position due to widespread defaults.

Notable Quote

“Giving them a dime for trash that's laying in your backyard is more than you should have to give them.”
—Dave Ramsey (49:41)

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6. The High Cost of Bad Vehicle and RV Decisions (Call with Claire – 55:00–63:09)

• Caller Claire: $1,300/mo truck payment, $56,000 owed on truck worth $34,000, also bought a $54,000 camper, living in it while renovating a home.
• The couple is deep underwater, struggling to make progress.

Key Insights

• Sell it all (“sell everything in sight”), get into basic housing, radically reset lifestyle.
• Dave’s rule of thumb: Buying things with wheels/motors on payments = recipe for poverty.

Notable Quote

“If you want to be poor, here’s the formula: buy a lot of stuff that has wheels and motors on payments… and you will be poor.”
—Dave Ramsey (63:11)

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7. Marriage and Money Secrets: The Danger of Financial Infidelity (Email from Lauren – 66:11–71:29)

• Lauren (50s) has $25,000 in secret debt, husband doesn't know. High income, high assets.
• Should she come clean or keep paying it off privately?

Key Insights

• Sincerity and integrity in marriage demand honesty—secrets erode trust.
• Whether the underlying issue is her overspending or his financial “thumb,” both need to address the root cause together, possibly in counseling.

Notable Quotes

“You can afford nice things, but you can't afford to do it under the table... This is a grown woman and you're 50 freaking years old. It's time to act like it.”
—Dave Ramsey (68:31)

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8. Should You Pause 401(k) Contributions to Pay Debt? (Call with Taylor – 71:44–75:01)

• Caller Taylor asks if she should stop retirement contributions while paying off debt, given conflicting advice from others.

Key Insights

• Ramsey’s approach: Stop all investing temporarily while paying off debt. Focus and intensity matter more than missing short-term compound growth/match.
• Once debt-free, ramp up to 15% investing and catch up quickly.

Notable Quotes

“There’s only one way to work the Ramsey baby steps. Baby step one is save $1,000, two is temporarily stop all investing... That focus, that level of intensity, is what causes people to complete their get out of debt journey. Those that play footsie with it and try to do three things at once, don’t pull it off. Ish is a wish.”
—Dave Ramsey (73:06)

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9. Late-Life Investing Decisions: Overcoming Fear of the Stock Market (Call with Mandy – 75:53–84:56)

• Mandy (63) and husband (60) have $765k in CDs, only $51k in mutual funds—afraid to move more into the market.
• Despite seeing much higher returns, fear of “losing it all” prevents them from investing more aggressively.

Key Insights

• Historically, the risk of total market collapse is negligible; staying in CDs only guarantees underperformance and loss to inflation.
• Spend time with a financial advisor who educates (not sells) and start gradually, only after you understand and are comfortable.

Notable Quote

“I've never ridden a bike, so riding a bike is scary. But now, once I've learned to ride a bike, then riding a bike is not scary anymore. You've done a lot of things in your life that were scary before you learned how to do them, but you learned how to do them anyway.”
—Dave Ramsey (80:26)

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10. Should I Become a Stay-at-Home Parent? (Call with Alyssa – 96:00–103:02)

• Caller Alyssa: Family income $200k+, wants to leave work to stay home with her second child. Tight budget after a new house purchase; fear of losing all margin.

Key Insights

• Run a trial—save her net income for several months while living just on husband’s income (minus daycare costs) to prove viability.
• There’s value in ‘solving for peace’ (emotional desire versus financial crunch)—but you must be grownups with the math; no “doing whatever you want” without reality checks.

Notable Quotes

“You guys made such great decisions up until this point… the fact that you even have the choice, which is just wonderful.”
—Rachel Cruze (102:06)

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11. “Debt-Free Scream” – Celebrating Real Lives Changed (Steve & Kathy, Boise, ID – 106:18–115:36)

• Steve & Kathy, $580,000 paid off over 12 years, starting at $100k income, now at $450k.
• Most was mortgage debt; current house worth $1.2 million, $1.6M+ in nest egg.
• Mentors inspired them early; their children are debt-free too.
• Key to success: Budgeting, intentionality, discipline, unity, and keeping God at the center.

Notable Quotes

“For me, it's really simple. First is the budget… you feel like you get a raise immediately... And then just intentionality and discipline.”
—Steve, Debt-Free Caller (112:51)

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Memorable Moments & Tough Love

• Dave's classic directness: "You're not frugal. The reality is you spent the money. That's the opposite of frugal." (119:37).
• Rachel on “joint finances”: “People hate that. They love having their separate thing, but... there's the actual benefit to the marriage that you guys are together and how much faster you guys can win.” (36:54).
• Dave on “TikTok advice”: “If you read about financial stuff on TikTok unless it's us, it sucks.” (14:08).
• Dave on the “get rich quick” mindset: “The lie… is a get-rich-quick mentality. To build true wealth is actually very boring.” (18:22).

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Business Debt and Consolidation (Steve): 00:05–08:54
• Penny Stock Loss and Car Debt (Kevin): 11:34–19:52
• Trusts & Inheritance Planning (Ken): 22:01–30:56
• Marriage & Combining Finances (Melinda): 33:21–42:43
• Solar Panel Loan/Warranty Mess (Mike): 44:44–50:14
• Truck/Camper Debt/Poor Spending (Claire): 55:00–63:09
• Financial Infidelity (Lauren): 66:11–71:29
• Pause 401k for Debt? (Taylor): 71:44–75:01
• CDs/Investing Fears (Mandy): 75:53–84:56
• Stay-at-Home Parent Math (Alyssa): 96:00–103:02
• Debt-Free Scream (Steve & Kathy): 106:18–115:36

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The Ramsey Method – Core Reminders

• Debt is rarely the answer. Use cash (business or personal) for expansion and emergencies.
• Most problems are behavioral, not mathematical—discipline, budgeting, and humility matter more than finding the next “hack.”
• In marriage, combine everything, force value alignment, communicate openly—or risk resentment and drift.
• Learn, invest patiently, avoid speculation and financial fads, don’t chase quick wins.
• Generational change comes from sticking with boring, simple wealth-building steps—long enough for them to work.

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Conclusion:
Building wealth is, at its core, about doing simple things with great consistency—budgeting, living on less than you make, avoiding debt, and investing wisely. It’s not glamorous, and it’s definitely not easy, but, as Ramsey and Cruze demonstrate through every tough call, it’s possible for anyone, regardless of past mistakes, if you commit and persevere.

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For more advice, tools, and resources, visit ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, number one best selling author, Ramsey Persis, co host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. My daughter is my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thanks for joining us everybody. Steve is with us in Cleveland. Hi, Steve. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey. Yes, I took out some loans for my business last year totaling about 90,000 and I am unable to afford the payments. Now of course went through the slow season being that we are in the deck and carpentry business. And so that was pre taxing on funds. And so I'm looking to join a debt consolidation program here that will reduce my weekly payments 2,400 down to $1,200. I'd like to do that, but my wife asked me to call you, so here I am.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh man, what a motivation. Call Steve.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So you borrowed $90,000 for what?

[Caller]

The deck business. I was looking to scale it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you didn't?

[Caller]

No. Going into the slow season here. We did not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, you knew there was a slow season when you borrowed the $90,000.

[Caller]

Yes, that's correct. I intended to spend that money on marketing, doing some home shows, upping our marketing budget through that time, bringing on a salesperson, just ramping up the sales and kind of muscling through the slow season with still bringing in revenue. But the weekly payments were just more than what we could handle. The sales didn't go in the same trajectory that I had planned on. And we did very poorly these last couple months in sales.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, there's a correlation between doing poorly in sales and the slow time and the fact that you dumped $90,000 in stress on top of your own head and that affects you running your business. Well, I've been there. I remember. And it's not, it's not a fun thing. So you're really feeling this pinch hard. So what does your business make? What's your gross revenues on your business in a year?

[Caller]

So we're in year. We're going into year four now. We went from 250,000 in 2024 to 350,000 in 2025. I'm sorry, that was around September here. We got to 440,000 at the end of 2025. We did about 100k in sales in September.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So the first thing is I hope that you've learned your lesson that borrowing money to expand your business is a dumb idea. Yes, it's a dumb idea.

[Caller]

Yeah. I do not intend to do that again ever again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So the next time you get ready to expand, use your profits to expand and don't take as much home or don't expand. One of the two. Okay. Those are your two options. Borrowing money very seldom works, especially in these scenarios. What you described here. So you, the magic sauce you thought was marketing and some sales guy, when it turns out listening to your sales numbers, you were the magic sauce. You took a business from 250 to 450 in 12 months. That's pretty freaking incredible. And so that's your answer to get out of this debt is for you to take the business and kick it in the butt and get it going. And if you hire more people to do more decks during the season, that's fine. The debt consolidation loan, I do not know. How did you borrow the 90,000? What kind of debt is it? Credit cards?

[Caller]

No, it's. They were micro advance kind of loans. They were a. It was a short term loan is what it was. So they were short term loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who do you owe the money to?

[Caller]

Interest was. There's three different creditors. One is. You want me to name the creditors on here?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

Yeah, we had micro advance forward financing and then we had what I thought was a debt consolidation loan, Fratello Capital.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It's good for America to hear these names because if you hear these names, run.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Have you contacted a debt consolidation company already, Steve?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, there's one that I plan to work with called. It's a Coastal debt consolidation.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. How far along are you in the process?

[Caller]

Haven't signed anything yet.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, good.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think it'll work. Okay. Because what debt consolidation companies do is they typically take credit card debt or consumer based debt, not small business rip off debt and don't pay the payments for a period of time, destroying your credit and then renegotiate based on the fact that the loans are in default and get a lower rate or a better payment rate. And that's the only way this is going to happen. They're going to put you into default. And so it's going to do to your credit the same thing a Chapter 13 would do to your credit. A Chapter 13 bankruptcy would do the exact same thing. It'll let you renegotiate the debt payments and put them on a five year plan and get it where you can breathe. But it's bankruptcy and the debt consolidation. In this case. The way this is laid out, the way these loans are laid out is that way I wouldn't do it. Instead what I would do is say I'm gonna look in the mirror and say the secret sauce to my business's rapid growth and success has always been me. Not something I can buy with $90,000 and I'm gonna strap a tool belt on me and about six other people and I'm gonna go build a whole bunch of decks and I'm gonna live on beans and rice and I'm gonna pay the. And get rid of it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you have any retained earnings in the business, Steve? Any cash?

[Caller]

No, hardly. Not at this point. Not after a few months of making those payments.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Yeah. When does season pick up for you? I'm assuming spring, summer?

[Caller]

That's correct.

Yep.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so we're almost there. I mean, it's March, so.

[Caller]

Yes.

Here.

[Rachel Cruze]

In the next six months, I'm going

[Dave Ramsey]

to start booking stuff left and right, taking deposits and start slamming down money on this 90k and getting rid of it. And I want you to be rid of it in a year. I want you to work all the time. I want you to work so much you're about to collapse. And that is your answer. Because filing bankruptcy or using a debt consolidation company, which in this case is going to sound, look exactly like bankruptcy on your credit. And it does for most of you, by the way. You go into one of these worn out, tired, retired actors telling you to get debt consolidation on some cable TV thing and then you go do it and basically they don't pay the payments for about six months. You pay them and then they start settling the debts and. Or they start paying a payment plan on the debts. But by then you're in default on almost everything. And so it trashes your credit.

[Rachel Cruze]

And if you're already at that point that you can't pay the payments and you go in default, then you could be the one to negotiate if you need to. Especially with credit card companies.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, if you want to quit paying them, you could quit paying them, pick out one of the three and quit paying them and let it go into default and then save up a lump sum and settle with them. But these are, these were horrible loans. The whole thing, as you can tell, was a horrible idea. But the way out of it is you. I think you have a golden hammer and I'd Swing it. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[Guest Speaker]

And. Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too.

[Guest Speaker]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[Guest Speaker]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man.

[Guest Speaker]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah, to just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff, Zander and the team at Xander Insurance it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282. The live like no one else cruise is back. And for all of you who are living debt free, if you're in baby step four and beyond, we want to invite you to join us in the Western Caribbean. This is the second time we've done this. This is the only cruise where you can hang out with us and me and Sharon and all the Ramsey personalities. Seven Days in Paradise. Enjoying poolside chats, live Q and A sessions, lots of events and things on the ship itself and absolutely high end ship. I don't do the cheap cruises. I can't stand them. This is the nice stuff for you people that are already starting to win. Right? That's how we set it up. Don't wait. The ship is already halfway full and the Neptune Suites have already sold out. So lock in your spot with a $600 deposit before it's too late. We are going. Of course, In March of 27, one year from today was when this will happen.

[Rachel Cruze]

So fun. So fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was a lot of fun. We did it last year.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know, it was great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Looks like we're on about an every two year rhythm to give you an idea and so we love to have you go. Just go to ramseysolutions.com events or click the link in the show notes. All right. Kevin is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Kevin. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi. So I don't know if you can hear me clearly, right. I'm 30 years old and I have made a few questionable investments that I spent most of my life saving up and getting ahead. I saved $34,000 over college, early adulthood and long story short, I ended up losing everything in penny stocks that someone I knew suggested me to. And now I'm back at my mom's house with my wife and she's not too happy about it and I'm just trying to.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you lose your house and everything?

[Caller]

I was renting an apartment.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, gotcha. How old are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Not a job.

[Caller]

I do, I do. I'm actually a manager at an In n out. I don't know if you've ever been

[Rachel Cruze]

before, but we just got one here.

[Dave Ramsey]

They just moved into the neighborhood. But the Flying Dutchman's corporate office is across the street. But anyway, so the. Wait a minute. You were a manager in n out when all this was happening?

[Caller]

No. So I actually worked at. I had a full red scholarship through college and I worked at Wendy's and other like fast food joints and I saved up a bunch of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

$34,000.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You were not living on the $34,000 when you were doing all of this. You were living on your income, were you not?

[Caller]

No, that was just my savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, My point is this. There's no reason that you're at your mother's if you didn't lose your job, you just lost your savings.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, the thing is I have a bit of debt. I have few different cars and I don't have really enough money to afford any kind of like, you know, anything food related or going out to have fun. And I kind of just figured because, you know, the ultimate goal is to escape the lower class. And what I've read online is that you need to take a little bit of risk. I think I went the wrong way about that. But my goal is to.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you read about it in the wrong place. If you read about financial stuff on TikTok unless it's us, it sucks. So, no, you didn't need to take a lot of risk. So here's the thing, honey. You know you have a debt problem, not a I lost money in penny stocks problem. If you weren't using your savings to live on, you were already had a life. And then plus or minus savings is the penny stock thing. So we don't blame this on the penny stock. We blame this on the fact you bought a bunch of crap like cars that you can't afford to pay on a in and out manager salary.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I sell the cars.

[Caller]

I could definitely can. I could definitely sell. I could sell the cars for sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you should have, but you can't before you move in with your mother.

[Caller]

Okay, and then would I just be ubering, or do I get like a cheaper car?

[Dave Ramsey]

You had a job.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, but I have to get to work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you get a $2,000 car, you said.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, you said plural cars. How many cars do you have, Kevin?

[Caller]

I have two cars.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And they're both on payments?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how much do you. How much do you owe on them?

[Caller]

One of them I owe about 30,000. The other one I owe about 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you have $50,000 in car debt. And what is your income, sir?

[Caller]

About 60 after tax.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Does your wife work outside the home?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller]

Does. It's complicated. I think that she. I kind of am a big believer of the whole nuclear house, you know, so she takes care of her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Maybe you don't live in your mother's house if you're a believer in the nuclear house.

[Caller]

I think my mentality was that she could just help out.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do y' all have kids?

[Caller]

Kevin make that sacrifice?

[Rachel Cruze]

Kevin, you gotta. You guys gotta work. How old are y'?

[Caller]

All? 30. I'm 30 years old.

[Rachel Cruze]

We gotta start working.

[Caller]

Do you have children? I do not have children.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, look, both of you get a job and both of you sell these dumb butt crazy cars and go get you a one bedroom apartment, get you two $5,000 cars, and then you have $10,000 in car debt instead of $50,000 in car debt. That is your problem.

[Rachel Cruze]

And you do nothing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Penny stock. That's what's causing you to be in the lower class living in your mother's basement. Not penny stocks.

[Caller]

Okay, that definitely makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

You lost $50,000 on these cars. You lost $30,000 on the penny stocks.

[Caller]

Yes, absolutely. For reference, I had seen it work, but I'm definitely not going to mess with it anymore. I did have a question. As someone with all your experience, if I'm not investing in the riskier the penny stocks or call options or anything like investment recommendation for when I build up.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, he does.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the number one wealth building tool that you have is your income. You have given that away to the car companies. And so in order to be able to be a real investor and become wealthy like the wealthy do it, you have to put your income into investments. And it's not speculative and it's not high risk. And I put mine in basic growth stock mutual funds. Okay, I'm going to send you a copy of the book, the total money makeover. 20 million people have read this book and it's helped them work the baby steps to get out of debt. Because when you're out of debt, then you're freed up to start doing long term investing.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much do you guys pay in car payments each month?

[Caller]

I think about 1200.

[Rachel Cruze]

1200. Okay, so here's what's crazy, here's the mindset, okay? Instead of paying the car companies, you pay yourself at 1200 from age 30, ready for this. From age 30 to where you are now to 67 years old at a 12% rate of return. If you just put this in good gross stock mutual funds and did not risky paid yourself these car payments instead of the cards, you would have $9.8 million at 67.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's not speculative and it's not risky.

[Rachel Cruze]

So that's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what basic people do in a 401k?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. And the lie, Kevin, that you have in the back of your head, that's why you do these penny stocks is a get rich quick mentality to build true wealth is actually very. You live on less than you make. You don't go borrow money, you pay yourself. So you are investing, you are saving. You have an emergency fund. So when something comes up, you're not running to debt, you have the money saved, you invest, you're generous. So there's a plan which, yeah, the book tmmo, Total Money makeover will help with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll send you that to try to help you. So the summation of the overall call is this. You're feeling 90% of your shame over the penny stocks and 10% of it on the cars. I want you to flip that. I want 90% of your guilt or shame to be on the cars so you never do that again because that's doing more damage to you than the penny stocks did. And then the lesson you learn from the penny stocks is, you know Abraham Lincoln said everything on the Internet's not true. Okay, so just.

[Rachel Cruze]

Did you read that on the Internet?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I read that on the Internet. So, I mean, this is, you know, so just got to know that most of the stuff on TikTok is a lie. Most of this stuff.

[Rachel Cruze]

And if you're too. Can I just say this too? Sorry. If you're too well, well bodied adults,

[Dave Ramsey]

both of you should be working.

[Rachel Cruze]

You should be working, especially if you don't have kids, right? And to get yourselves out of this mess and to get yourself on a financial playing field that you actually then have stability and then you can make choices of, hey, I want someone home. I don't. But right now, you guys don't have that luxury. That's a luxury to keep one spouse at home.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're living like you're making $200,000 a year and you're not. And so you're going to have to adjust your expectations of how this whole thing works. I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys. I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest. Early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team just to fix it, and they did. We got netsuite. That was years ago and we've never looked back. See, netsuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business for real time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data, stop wasting time, and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour [e-mail] Ramsey that's netsuite.com Ramsey. Ken is with us in Mobile, Alabama. Hi, Ken. How are you doing?

[Caller]

Great, Dave.

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, so I've got a quick question. I want to get your thoughts on trust. I'm retired. I followed your plan that I actually learned from my mother. But I've been Listening to you for years. And it works well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you.

[Caller]

So now I have a really good, good net worth. I have one child and he just graduated from college. And I just want to make sure that as my wife and I pass this on to him, that it set up, you know, protected from lawsuits and others type things. And I've had friends say, well, you need to set up a trust. And I just want to get your thoughts on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your net worth?

[Caller]

About 3 and a half million, including the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have our Items mainly in LLCs and a few of them in trusts. Okay. Particularly real estate. Each of our real estate properties that has substantial value, we put it in an individual LLC so that at worst case, you would lose that piece of property then. Okay. If it was sued. Okay. That's your worst case with that property. And so if you had a piece of property worth a million dollars and you got a $50 million lawsuit on it, you hand them the keys and you'll walk away. Right, Right. But they don't get everything else. And that's kind of your point. Ultimately, the thing that protects you much, much more than that is to teach your son how to behave. You started with nothing, and you've acquired enough wisdom to run all of this. So he could learn to do that. Unless he's. Unless he's got a mental disability of some kind. Does he?

[Caller]

No, no, no, he doesn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If he's just irresponsible and immature, you can't do enough to protect him from that. He's going to screw it up no matter what you do.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is he can. What's his. What's his status?

[Caller]

No, no, he's not. But, but he's a very kind hearted person. And, you know, his thoughts are more in the social work history side of the house versus my background in accounting and finance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, I think. I think you can have some real frank discussions with him and say, in order for me to leave this in your care, you have to have a level of wisdom on how to handle it, because that's your job as the steward of this. Because this is God's property and I'm managing it for God. Now you're going to be managing it for him later, and you're going to have to do that with wisdom. I mean, really, that's gonna be 90% of your safeguard. 10% is your structure. Okay. So it kind of falls in the heading. You probably have heard this before. I teach Entrez. I teach small business people this all the time in contract law. If there is no contract in the world that is strong enough to not get to keep you from getting screwed by somebody who's a crook, they're gonna find a way. And you can't just say, oh, but I had a contract. Oh, but I had a trust. And no, I mean he gave it all away. He screwed up and he was kind hearted and he got exploited and he got conned because he had a lack of wisdom. That's going to happen whether you have

[Rachel Cruze]

a trust or not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whether you have a trust or whether you have LLCs or no matter how you structure your risk management process, unless you remove all control from him and you put the control of all your assets in someone else's control, called a trustee. And your son's not allowed to do anything or make any decisions and that's just not a very good life for him.

[Caller]

Yeah, right.

I can, I've heard people mention that before, but yeah, I just don't feel I agree with you. That's not a good life for him or. And it doesn't give him any responsibility.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. And how old is he now?

[Caller]

20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. Yeah. So I sat down with Hours when they were about that age and that's the first time they understood that we had built a net worth from having gone broke. And we said, look, first thing is, you know, we're Christians. And so as for me and my house, we serve the Lord. This is not yours, it's not mine. I'm managing it for God. And if you don't leave this conversation with a sense of responsibility and heaviness instead of a woo hoo, I hit the lottery. When you start to see what our net worth is that someday is going to be yours, then you didn't. I didn't do my job as your parent to this point and I didn't do my job in this conversation. And we had that conversation very clearly. And to their credit, they all accepted it as a responsibility, as a privilege to get to manage this wealth for the good of the family and the good of people in the community.

[Rachel Cruze]

And one of the best elements of that is learning to manage just our life. We're not managing any of that right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, it's learning to live within our own means of the jobs that, you know, we've chosen to take on

[Dave Ramsey]

the life of that while I'm gone.

[Rachel Cruze]

So yeah, there's a level of him that's going to be managing his life after college and you get to kind of be there with him in those conversations. And that's kind of his practice run. Honestly, Ken, before he gets handed all of this that you've built.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, the answer to your overall question is I would not put it all in a trust because I don't think it's going to accomplish exactly what you're trying to accomplish for the reasons I said. Now, is a trust for part of it possibly a good place? Yeah. Probably just from general risk management. And it depends on how your wealth is structured. Maybe some LLCs and so forth. That's true, because I'm a very poor man right now. I own absolutely nothing. Even my cars are not in my name. I don't have anything in my name anymore. It's all in the name of something else. And my wife is in charge of all that. So if she leaves, I'm going with her because she's got all the keys. So, you know, I mean, that's. That's, you know, it's just. You really can't get to. We've insulated our stuff in a lawsuit. Happy world.

[Rachel Cruze]

Give a high level of, like, what a trust is, a living trust, all the different kinds of people that structure. Because we get this question a lot about wills. Should I. You know, I mean, everything from that to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, a lot of times people want to do a trust for different reasons than Ken. Okay? They want to do a trust to avoid probate. And probate is the tax that your state has. Our state has a 3% probate. It's not much, so it's not that big a deal. And you do avoid probate by putting this stuff into a trust, but you have to move the title of everything into a trust that's a living trust. Okay. And so you move everything in the name of a trust, and you manage everything out of a trust. And you do that if you got a $2 million net worth. So you don't pay, you know, 40,000 bucks in taxes, which is just dumb because.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because of the effort is what you're just.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's too much effort. And most people don't. They don't ever fund the trust, meaning they don't ever move the title to their house into it. They don't move the title to their house.

[Rachel Cruze]

They don't open the trust, but they don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have to put all the. Redo all the titles to everything in the name of the trust.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you don't do that, the trust is sitting there empty. It doesn't have anything in it. And so you paid 5,000 bucks to some lawyer that talked you into doing this for nothing. So get a will is what you need to do.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then at death, you can form a trust or if you're doing like a massive piece of property or something. Like, we've got a couple of pieces of property. There are hundreds of millions.

[Rachel Cruze]

There was a guy, he called in last week and it was a Southern California property that his grandfather left them. And it was like a 10 million. It was something. It was millions and millions and millions of dollars. And that was in a trust.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And that's fine. If you want to do that, that's fine. The problem is the stuff that we have in a trust in the Ramses, it's trapped. You guys aren't going to be able to sell it. So the things that we're not sure you're going to want after I'm gone, we've left that in just LLCs, because you all may deal some of that stuff. But there's like this property is in a trust where our offices are the campus. Because you can't sell that. You got to run the office out of it. So run Ramsey out of it. But there's a few things like that. But the rest of them, you just don't want to handcuff people from the grave in an effort to force them to do weird stuff. So teach them while you're alive what you want them to be. And that's your fix for most things. And if you're trying to manage risk and while you're alive, you know, moving some stuff, we don't put more than about $5 million or a single piece of property, depending on the size of what's going on, into an LLC. And so, like, we've got enough houses in an LLC, it gets to 5 million and then we quit. And, you know, we don't have that. We've only got about 25 houses now. We don't have as many we used to. But we would not let the LLCs get too big because they don't have too big a target on them then. But that's a. That's not a death, after death thing. That's a while you're alive risk management thing. Right?

[Rachel Cruze]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so, but as far as after death goes, a trust is freaking forever unless you put a termination date on it or a methodology for terminating it. Is part of the term, part of the deal.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's. And most people don't think that through when they do this. So I would go to the source and fix the Source first, which is training up your boy and then go from there.

[Caller]

Sam.

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[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Melinda is in Phoenix. Hi, Melinda, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi.

How are you doing? Can you hear me okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. What's up?

[Caller]

Oh, awesome.

Yay.

Thank you so much. I just love what you do. And we just started Financial Peace University like two weeks ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we're very, very cool. Well, welcome. We're glad you're here. How can we help you on your journey?

[Caller]

Well, I'm hoping you can help put out a fire with me and my husband because we've been going back and forth of this.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, we love to settle a debate, Melinda. We are here for it.

[Caller]

Oh, that would be great. So we are going through the steps. He is on baby step number one, which is putting $1,000 in his starter fund. I already have baby step number one covered. I have about $6,000 in my personal savings. However, we have a joint savings account that has $2,500 in it. Now, I have asked my husband to not touch our joint savings because it just gives me, like, a little bit of peace of mind of being able to cover, like one month's mortgage and some bills if something happened. He has said, well, wait a minute, Melinda. If we just take our joint savings and we reach 50, 50 put into it, you take $12, 50 cents. I take $1,250. Then I have baby step number one box checked, and then I can go on to paying my debt off. He has a lot more debt than I do. I don't have that much, but he has a bit more. So he's kind of eager to start paying it off. And I'm pushing back on him, saying, no, I want to keep our joint savings. Pretend that's not there. And you figure baby step number one out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, in 30 years.

[Caller]

Why don't you ask Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Melinda, in 30, almost 40 years of doing this, the couples that do it the way you're trying to do it fail.

[Caller]

Oh, they do. He said, ask Dave. He's like, why don't you ask Dave if we can touch our joint saving?

[Dave Ramsey]

So the couples that actually win and go all the way to being millionaires, when we did an actual study of millionaires, we asked them the same thing. Work 100% joint. They don't have any yours in mind, only ours. And so I would take all the debts and put them in one list, all the savings and put it in one list. It's not your roommate. It's your husband. And that's what we've seen to be very, very successful. It has the added benefit of creating synergy and the other added benefit of creating massive amounts of communication and values alignment. Because you really have to force yourself to work together, because everything's together. And then there's this unity that comes in the relationship that you didn't even see coming. So consequent what we end up hearing. And I first heard this, I don't know, decades ago, I'd be teaching Financial Peace University in a live setting, and people would say, oh, this saved our marriage. And I'm like, what? Or made our marriage way better. And I'm like, what? Sex class was down the hall. I mean, come on. And they're like, no, you forced us to work together and align our values and have one account and one list of debts and one life. And it forced us to create a unity in our relationship and a communication level in our relationship that I didn't do it for that reason. I did it because it was practical. But I've learned later now, in retrospect, all these years later, that it has all these added benefits to the marriage as well as really increases the probability of you winning. Rachel, you get a lot of criticism when you tell people to join accounts.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, people hate that. They love having their separate thing, but that's it, Melinda. I mean, there's A logistical piece to this. And then there's the actual benefit to the marriage that you guys are together and how much faster you guys can win. Okay, so you just threw out some numbers. I just want to use it as an example.

[Caller]

You. You.

[Rachel Cruze]

You have how much saved? 6,000.

[Caller]

Did you say I have $6,000 saved?

[Rachel Cruze]

And then y' all have it. You got the 2500 over on the other end. Right. And then does he have any money saved?

[Caller]

He.

[Rachel Cruze]

He doesn't have it. Right. He's working on his thousand.

[Caller]

$25.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, perfect.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much debt do you have, Melinda?

[Caller]

I have $5,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Perfect. Okay. And then how much does he have?

[Caller]

$19,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Perfect. Okay, great. So the beautiful thing is, if you. If you do the baby steps the way we've said, okay, you're gonna have your emergency fund done tonight. Your debt's gonna be paid off, and then you guys are gonna have a thousand or two left to hit his debt. So it'll be down to 17,000. You guys working together?

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

Well, that's why I'm not taking my savings and paying off that credit card, because I literally. I make more money than him.

[Dave Ramsey]

An income. You don't. We have an income.

[Caller]

Oh, we have. Well, I literally just lost my job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's. Okay. So what did you used to. What did you used to make?

[Caller]

I have 12,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what did your husband use? What did your husband make?

[Caller]

He doesn't make out. He makes 4,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what were you doing?

[Caller]

I'm freelance, so I'm a consultant. And I'm not worried about getting clients. I'll get back up to 10, 12K in a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then there's nothing to worry.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you have an issue? Of what? Of his work ethic, Melinda.

[Caller]

He works Monday through Friday really hard, but he's kind of like. He works in the. You know, he worked. He works with. Also with his best friends, so it's kind of like fun and play, and they're building something big, but they keep saying they're going to have this big return, and it's been like two years. They don't have that yet.

[Rachel Cruze]

So this is exhibit A. No, it's. No, I get it. No, listen, this is. This is exactly why we say pull your money together and work together, because what ends up coming out of that is life. And what ends up coming out of that is your questioning, holding your breath, fear around what he's doing over here. And. And if you guys haven't even been aligned on that or had dates of, hey, if it doesn't hit this, then we need to move on. Like, nothing is aligned within the family unit. Right. He's kind of off doing his thing. You're doing your thing, and that's how you guys are living. And when you actually force yourselves to work together, some of these conversations that can be really hard, but actually very beneficial to your life and your marriage end up coming up that you have to hit head on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I would suggest that you guys begin talking about this idea of combining all of our savings, combining all of our income, and combining all of our debts list. I would not start your total money makeover today. Keep going through Financial Peace University, but I would not take you down to $1,000 when you get $5,000 worth of clients back up, up, which is probably two or three weeks from now. Right. Okay. When you get that, then push play on this. And I want you to clean out all of the savings except retirement down to $1,000 and pay off your debt and start paying on his 19, which are both now our debts and our savings and our income and our house and our car and our goals for our goals for career goals. And I mean all of that. And your business that you're running is our business. And I'm uncomfortable. I don't mind you having fun over there, but I do mind you having fun over there while you're not hitting good income goals. That's starting to bother me. And we need to talk about that out loud. Resentment starts to build. I need to talk about the fact I'm a little bit scared right now. I just lost my biggest client and I'm down to zero. And I don't like being there.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I feel like I'm doing a lot of the work. I'm putting a lot of the effort. I don't feel the same from you. And that's scary to me. I mean, all of it, it all

[Dave Ramsey]

just say it doesn't mean that it's the end of the world or anything. We're not ending anything. But what this forces is this, like Rachel said, this tremendous level of communication and depth. But it's going to be. You're going to have a painful three or four weeks here.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because if not the resentment. So people that just push things under the rug and they compartmentalize and say, well, that stuff's over here. Here, the resentment, it starts to build up. And then you look up 10 years from now and you're like, we've never even had. We've never even talked about this, of how I've been feeling. Cause I haven't had to because I've kept all my stuff over here. So it just kind of forces kind of the junk up, which is not fun. Not fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna have a hard three weeks,

[Rachel Cruze]

but it's gonna be. But you're gonna look back on all of this and you're gonna have a. Yes, a deeper, more cohesive marriage. Because of it. Because of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And as you get further into financial peace, you're gonna hear this language a lot, that you change your pronouns not in a woke way, but in a way that says it's we. We do this, we do that. My wife, Sharon, has not worked outside of our home earning an income since our oldest daughter was born, who's 40. But we have an excellent income. We have a lot of assets. We have done very well. And I would not have been able to do it were she not keeping the home fires burning. Were she not a low maintenance, low drama person, I would not have been able to as hard as I've been able to work. So it is a we.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's a we. Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I have zero resentment that she did not do an income during that time. It was our decision for her to do that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Melinda, I'm excited for y', all, though. I know you're new to all this, but honestly, I. I'm pumped to see where you guys are going to be. You're going to do amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the thing.

[Caller]

You're a hard worker.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're a charger. I can hear it. And you guys are going to be awesome. So call us back if you have any other questions.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here's the thing. Try. Try it. You can always go back to the old way. Try something different. Running a business is hard work. You're the CEO, the accountant, and the sales team. You don't have time to moonlight as your own benefits department. That's where Health Trust Financial helps. In fact. In fact, health insurance is one of the biggest and most confusing line items in your budget. And most of you are overpaying because you're stuck figuring it out alone. You don't have time to figure out all the fine print about networks and deductibles. My friends at Health Trust Financial have been helping Ramsey listeners for over 20 years. Their focus is simplifying health insurance and serving people with implementation. No pressure, no games. They give you clear, unbiased advice that fits your life and your budget. Most of their clients save hundreds of dollars every Month. That's real money you can put back in your business or into the baby steps. So stop wasting your time, your energy and your money. You run the business. Let Health Trust Financial handle finding the right health insurance. Go to healthtrustfinancial.com today. That's healthtrustfinancial.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality number one best selling author and my daughter is my co host. Today Mike is in Boston. Hey Mike, how are you?

[Caller]

Are you doing good? Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Thanks for taking my call. Hey, I've got a situation with a solar system that I want to get your feedback on. I bought a home last summer, had a solar system installed that was financed and warranted through a company called Sonova. Part of the pricing was originally inclusive of a long term like roof penetration leak warranty and a production guarantee. Long story short, couple months into my home purchase, it started leaking. So I had to have the system removed and ultimately had the whole roof replaced. To make matters worse, during that time Sonova went bankrupt and a company called Sunstrong took over the lease. But unfortunately they claim that they are not responsible for any of the warranties or guarantees going forward. So currently I've got about $50,000 balance on the loan and all of the solar panels are in my backyard. So I'm trying to get your feedback on what the best next steps would be. Should I just take it as a dumb tax and pay it off off or would you personally have them reinstalled and just know that any future roof leak risk is something that I'd be taking on personally?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, what a mess. Well, a couple things. I would probably gather some information from an attorney to be sure exactly where you stand on this. But I think you've assessed this correctly because I think the warrant was probably offered by the company that went bankrupt and so the warranty's worth nothing. The lease, which is where you financed the solar panels, is a separate contract and that money stands separate of that warranty guarantee, although morally it shouldn't. But I think that's probably the way this is structured legally. And so now I will say that an interesting situation. The people that did buy the paper, the people that you owe the money to on this lease, they are probably having all kinds of problems collecting on a whole bunch of this paper. In other words, this is a bad deal for them because they probably have a whole bunch of you out there. You Know what I'm saying? Not necessarily roof leaks, but everything else. Because they bought paper or they financed for a company that in turn went bankrupt. And now you've got a whole bunch of dissatisfied customers don't want to pay this bill. Bill. So I suspect you're not the Lone Ranger on this. I bet you they got this every day en masse, they're dealing with. So having said that, do you have any money?

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, in the payments, like.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Do you have any money?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much money do you have?

[Caller]

I have enough to pay it off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you have over $50,000 in cash that you could use. Yes. Okay. I would call them and tell them I'm going to sue them because they're the only one left standing in a bad situation where my roof leaked and the solar panels are laying in the backyard. They can come pick them up if they want them. Or we can try to settle this and I'll give you $10,000 to pay it off and start there and buy this note out at a discount.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because the note is.

[Caller]

It's interesting because it is a. It's a loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. It's.

[Caller]

It is the original contract. Yeah, the original contract for the loan, the pricing was solar plus warranty. So to the original buyer, the people that own the property before me, it was packed. And when it was transferred to me, for that matter, it was packaged as a package deal. And this is the pricing.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I would just. I would just say this is. This whole thing's a piece of crap. You bought crappy paper. You know that. You know you're not going to get paid out on it. So I'll give you 10,000, doll, and we'll call it a day. You're not going to get out of that. And lawyer fees cheaper than that. And then you're going to own the solar panels, and you can either throw them in the dump or you can put them back on your house. Your choice. But right now, what you've got is not a solar problem. You have a $50,000 problem, and I want to get rid of that. I think they're going to take a discount. I don't know if they're going to take 10. They may come back and say 20. If they do get it in writing and write them a check and be done with. With them.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah.

I've got kind of conversations ongoing. The last time I spoke with them about that, they said the price was $50,000. Even today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Even though it's financed at less than 1%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, and let me help you with this. I'm going to sue you. Yeah. I'm going to sue you, and you're never going to get any of this because you people screwed me, and you're one of the ones that screwed me, and I'm not going to tolerate it. So if you think you're getting $50,000 out of me, you're confused.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because they screwed you for sure.

[Caller]

I mean, that's what it feels like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you need to go see a lawyer and talk to a lawyer and find out exactly what your rights are in the state of Massachusetts. I am not a legal expert, but this is how I would handle the business part of it and the relational part of it. And you're, you know, you're being moral, you're being honorable because you got screwed. Giving them a dime for trash that's laying in your backyard is more than you should have to give them.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, with the damage, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

They should just pick up the trash and call the note off. But they're not going to. Yeah. And it's going to cost you more than ten grand to get in a lawsuit. Promise you.

[Caller]

Yeah.

I can't imagine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, So I don't want you to go there, but I really want them to believe you're going to go there.

[Caller]

Yep.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Caller]

All right, well, I'll just have to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Double up your fist and bust them in the nose. Just bust them in the nose. Just hit them hard. I'm serious. Don't be nice to.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do they hold the luggage. The company? Yeah, they're the ones.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, what happened was the paper was sold and then they went bankrupt.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Yeah, but the new company holds the paper. But I'm saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but they bought paper that they knew was bad because they bought it from a company that was going bankrupt and it screwed a bunch of other people. Synovus is clapping. It's like a case study in screwing people. It's not.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sorry, Mike.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry you got taken, and it's a mess. And then you've got to decide if you want solar on the house and whether you want the roof to leak and all that other bull stuff. That's a whole nother discussion as to whether or not it's going to be worth screwing with, but might be, might not be. But that's where we get to.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

What a mess. Wow. All right, up next is Michael in Minneapolis. Hey, Michael. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave.

Hey, Rachel.

How you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Great. How can we help?

[Caller]

Good. Just to say first we have no consumer debt. And the only thing we have is our mortgage. 155,000. It's about $1,273 a month. And to off I have an opportunity where I can get go back to school to be an electrician. I wanted to do that back in 2019. I left it for some dumb reason and I got put in a wait list. I now have this sales job. I'm making 65,000 a year plus commission. I've been doing that for about a year now. And we just got done with this debt, all of our little debts and it just feels like.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much does it cost you go to school?

[Caller]

15.

The max. 15,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And can you work while you're doing that?

[Caller]

I'm going to work part time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

My wife works full time right now. $23 an hour. She just got the job. I don't know what.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not much. And so you, what are you going to be making part time?

[Caller]

That I haven't looked into that. I just got this email about a week ago and we've just been. Been boggling our minds on this.

[Dave Ramsey]

What would happen if you went to work for an electrician's company and they paid for you to go to school while you worked for them?

[Caller]

There is. There is an opportunity for that. That's. But they're on a wait list too. I don't know how long that would be.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know where all these wait lists come from. We have a shortage of trades everywhere in America. So I don't know whether you're trying to do a union deal and that's where your wait list is coming from. If you do, then bypass the union and just go because an electrician son and let somebody pay you while you're doing it. But I think you need to pursue it, but in a smarter way than you're outlining right now.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, as long as you can cash flow and you guys can keep your head above water financially for two years to the school and you're going to be making more than what you're making now. Probably consider it.

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[Dave Ramsey]

One of the best things you can do for your money is to have a really good tax break in your corner that you can trust. They'll help advise you on the best moves to make for your tax situation or your small business, especially if you had some big life changes in the last year. Go to ramseysolutions.com taxpro to find the CPAs, the enrolled agents who have been vetted by the Ramsey team and are Ramsey trusted. Claire is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Claire. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for accepting my call. So me and my husband kind of got ourselves into a situation with a vehicle. We bought it when we were living with my mom, and we thought we could afford it, and now the payment's ridiculous, and we just don't know what to do about it.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much is the payment?

[Caller]

It's thirteen hundred dollars a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long you been married?

[Caller]

A year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Thirteen hundred dollars a month?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

Every time it pulls, I want to cry.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's the. What's the truck. What's owed on it?

[Caller]

In total, we owe, I want to say 52 or 58 somewhere around there.

[Dave Ramsey]

First thing you need to do is call. Who's the truck financed with?

[Caller]

I honestly, I don't remember.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Call them today and find out what the payoff is if you pay it off this month.

[Caller]

Okay. I think we checked it the other day, and I think they said it was like 56.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's. That's what I was asking you, what you owed on the truck.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you weren't sure. So you're sure you checked it the other day?

[Caller]

Yeah, we. I checked it this month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. 56,000. Do you have any idea what the truck is worth?

[Caller]

Yeah, I checked today. It's worth like 34.

[Dave Ramsey]

According to who?

[Caller]

Kelly.

[Dave Ramsey]

On private sale. Trade in or what?

[Caller]

Private sale.

[Rachel Cruze]

Golly. When did he get the truck? How long ago?

[Caller]

Truck? Two years ago.

I want to say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you have a car that was upside down and you rolled the upside down amount into the steel?

[Caller]

No, we bought when it was really high.

We bought the truck for like I don't even remember.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your interest rate?

[Caller]

Ridiculous. I think it's 17%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Your 56 is not your payoff. That's not the right number. That's the balance. That's not the payoff because you have a high. A subprime loan and they're giving you the total of all your payments left. You're not that far upside down on the street.

[Rachel Cruze]

Truck be more what, like fit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, what were we? What I want to know is what the payoff is today, not what the balance is today. When you have a rip off subprime loan, they book the loan as the total of all remaining payments. That is not your payoff. Your payoff is not the total of all the payments because it doesn't include all that interest. So your payoff is probably going to be 45. You're probably 10 in the hole, give or take. Now what's your household interest income?

[Caller]

Our household income is. I'm sorry, I'm trying to think, like 56amonth.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you make?

[Caller]

I make. I'm at 20, $19 an hour.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does he. What does he make?

[Caller]

He's at 26, 70.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

So. So you guys bring home $5,600 that hits your account after taxes?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're working 40 hours.

[Caller]

Yeah. He works overtime, though.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. In addition to that. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And I'm assuming you have no money saved.

[Rachel Cruze]

We.

[Caller]

So we've been working on the baby steps. We have a thousand dollars saved.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good.

[Caller]

And we've been paying off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, the debts.

[Caller]

He just got a big bonus, so we paid off a bunch of our credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much was that bonus?

[Caller]

It was like $3,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have a tax return coming or do you know?

[Caller]

I don't have a very big tax. I have like a hundred dollars coming for my tax return and he has maybe a thousand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Because you desperately need to get rid of this truck. Completely get rid of it. And you're going to have to pay the difference to do that. There's a couple of ways to do that. One is sa say you're 10,000 in the hole as an Example, you'd have to have the $10,000 to put with the 34 to get the thing paid off and get rid of it. The second thing you can do is you could finance that $10,000.

[Caller]

Okay. I'm worried though, because we live in a camp trailer and so we need the truck to pull the camp trailer,

[Dave Ramsey]

sell it all and move into an apartment. This is killing you. You can't keep this ridiculous butt truck and have some irrationalized reason for doing it and live in a camp tr. You're dying over here. You got sell the camper to. What's the camper worth?

[Caller]

The campers worth? I just looked at it was. It's worth 54,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you owe on it?

[Caller]

We just bought it out of apartment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh my God. And so you financed it? Of course.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you owe $54,000 on a camp camper?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

We're gonna sell everything. Clear.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If. If I woke up in your shoes, I would sell everything in sight and I would clean up this mess. And it's gonna take you a year to clean up this mess. Renting a little one bedroom apartment and you're gonna work like crazy people all the time and you're gonna have no life. And it's gonna take you a while because you've made some really, really bad financial decisions. This truck and this camper are the top of the list. And you've got to get this off of you. Five years from now, you're going to have two pieces of junk and still owe 40 grand.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you'll still be living in a dadgum camper. This is not a good long term life plan.

[Caller]

No. So the plan was we bought the camper because we're fixing up my dad's old house that he gave to us.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you're going to sell the camper at a loss now?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you should have moved in an apartment while you're fixing up the old house instead of buying $54,000 or something that's going down in value like the toilet.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So that's the plan that. Yeah. So. And now you're fixing up the house with money you don't have.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How much you putting into this house?

[Caller]

Well, so my dad said he would pay for most of it. We haven't put anything into it yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is he living there now?

[Caller]

My husband's doing. No, he has his own house.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

My husband work on the house himself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is the house going to be put in your name or is it in Your name?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Already.

[Caller]

It's not in our name yet, which is why we haven't put any money in it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. Don't. Don't put money and effort into it until it's in your name. And you've got to. You've got to start undoing some of these things. So you got. Y' all gotta make mess, and I'm scared for you. But you've got to back up and rethink how these stories end. Before you enter into the story, we need to begin with the end in mind. As Stephen Covey said in the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. And you don't buy a $54,000 camper to sleep in that's going to be worth 30 by the time you get ready to sell it a year from now in order to fix up a house, you could have used that money to fix up the house. And so you gotta quit buying things that go backward on big payments. And it sounds like you're sacrificing in your head, but you're not sacrificing. You made a mistake is what you did. So you guys have got to get rid of this crap. And if you can get that house barely habitable and move into it.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's what I was gonna say. That's a bright spot in the story.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You know, even if it's not nice, even if the, you know, if the bathrooms on one end don't work or something, I don't care if you can get it where it's legal to live in it and the plumbing is functioning and you have a, you know, a basic kitchen to operate out of, and you can fix it up later and get rid of the payments here and start dumping all this stuff, this crap that you've got with wheels on it that's going down in value.

[Caller]

You.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, folks, a general rule of thumb is this. Not just for her, but for all of us. If you want to be poor, here's the formula. Buy a lot of stuff that has wheels and motors on payments. Boats, sea doos, four wheelers, motorcycle cars, trucks, trucks, trucks, lawnmowers. Buy a lot of stuff with motors and wheels and put payments on it, and you will be poor. If debt collectors won't stop calling and you feel like you're drowning, you don't need another company selling debt relief dreams. You need real world health help. And that's why I recommend Guardian Litigation Group. Guardian's not a call center. They're actual attorneys who can step into the courtroom and fight back when creditors try to sue you. Now look, debt settlement isn't pretty. I still rather have you get out of debt the old fashioned way. But if you're facing bankruptcy and need a way to stop the bleeding, Guardian gives you a path forward and they don't charge a dime up front. Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55,000 people across the country settle more than $600 million in debt. They'll help you stop living in fear every time the phone rings and take back control of your Life. Go to guardianlit.com Ramsey that's guardianlit.com Ramsey Attorney Advertising Results may vary and no specific outcomes guarantee guaranteed. Today's question of the day is brought to you by why refi if defaulted private student loans are wrecking your budget. It's time to deal with them. Why refi helps you refinance defaulted private student loans with a low fixed rate payment based on your ability to pay so you can stick to a budget and work the plan. Go to yrefi.comramsey that's y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Rachel Cruze]

Today's question comes from Lauren in Maryland. She said, I'm a married woman in my 50s with $25,000 in debt that my husband doesn't know about. I started a part time job and I'm slowly paying it off. I grew up in a middle class family and my mother was always trying to save a dollar which drove me crazy. My husband is a good man who makes about $175,000 a year. We don't have a mortgage and have about 1.5 million in retirement. We have a healthy retirement investments and our parents have set up 529s for our children. So college I like to buy nice things for myself but I feel terrible about the way I've handled my finances. Should I continue to pay this off myself or come clean and tell him about the debt? LAUREN well, to answer your question bluntly, yeah, I would come clean and tell him about the debt. Not only can you guys get this cleaned up together, but also carrying around a secret like that and functioning at that level in your marriage is going to erode not only your marriage but also you, you can't, you can't carry that stuff. I mean secrets is what erodes trust in a marriage. And so you carrying that is not being a person of integrity, being fully honest. And so that's going to be, that's going to be a hard, a very hard conversation. You know, people that deal with, with financial infidelity and thankfully you Guys have that. The sounds like the margin that you're gonna be able to take care of it, but, man, people that get stuck with this stuff, it does feel like a level of betrayal, sometimes at the same level as actual infidelity going on in a marriage. So I'm not saying it's going to be easy, Lauren, but carrying it around,

[Dave Ramsey]

I kind of want your husband to be pissed because you lied to him. So I think that, you know, I like nice things, so I lied to you. I don't think that's okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, it's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's not okay. And I think you expect him to be pissed, and he should be. Not because of the money, but because of the deception and the lying. And that's some serious stuff in your relationship. So, yeah, you need to come clean yesterday, deal with whatever the consequences are. It may put you on the marriage counselor's office, which will be okay with me. Then. The second thing is, is that you can afford nice things.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you can't afford to do it under the table. Hide the target bags under the bed. That's not funny. This is a grown woman, and you're 50 freaking years old. It's time to act like it. So, yeah, you and your husband need to sit down and have an adequate budget for you to buy some nice things. And part of it was you grew up in a tight household where they didn't have any money. And so your husband. Husband makes $175,000 a year. You want to have a nice dress, that's okay. I want 14 nice dresses. No. Then that's something wrong with you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, that's what I was going to say at that point. Yes. Where she is. I'm like, there's. There's stuff inside of you, Lauren, that's coming out sideways in the form of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

For some people, it's other things that they sit there and medicate with. But some people, it is. It's the spending. It's the money. And so figuring out what that is for you, for yourself to get help is going to be a gift later on to your marriage.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we can afford to do a lot of things that we choose not to do because in our minds, they're ridiculous. But she and I, Sharon and I choose to do that together. And then there's some things that we choose to do that other people think are ridiculous. I don't care what they think. It's not their money. And so we just buy that because we want to and we have the money. Shut up. And so you can do that, but you're in agreement on that. And so my wife wants to do such and such in the redecorating, which is a constant budget line item, but at least we know what it is, and we're doing it together, and it's a reasonable percentage of our world, and it doesn't mess up everything else. And she gets to enjoy that thing that I don't even understand. That's okay. I can do that as a husband, she can do that as a wife. But we can be on the same page, and it's a line item in our overall plan, and there's room for. For it. And I think that's the case here. There's room for you to have some nice things, but not by hiding them. So, yeah, you need to come clean today. You need to expect him to be. Not about the money, but about the lying for him to be really pissed. I don't know of anybody that wouldn't be. And so. And you've broken trust, and it may take a little while to rebuild that trust. Trust, and it may take some time in a marriage counselor's office, and that's okay. I wouldn't mind that for y' all at all, because there's a lot of stuff going on here that needs to be fixed. But. Yeah, but the way you all have been handling money as a couple has not allowed you the freedom to speak up and say, I want to buy something.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And it's either that you have an issue, Lauren, that you have to live below your means, and you don't like that. And so you go off and do whatever you want and go charge it on credit cards. That's your issue. But then on the flip side, he could be kind of a jerk and, like, shaming you over every purchase. You're like, I don't want to deal with that. I'll just come over here and do my own thing too. Right. Which is an issue too. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But the way you're handling money as a couple has partly led to this. Either you're not speaking up or him putting his thumb on it or some of both. Somewhere in there, Taylor is in New York City. Hi, Taylor. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Thanks for taking my call. I have a quick question that I've gotten a lot of differing opinions on, but basically, should I stop contributing to my 401k while I'm paying off my debt?

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're working the Ramsey baby steps, there's not varying opinions. There's only one. There's only one way to work the Ramsey baby steps. And baby step one is save $1,000. Two is temporarily stop all investing and completely focus on your debt snowball. Paying minimum payments on everything but the little one and attacking the little one with a vengeance. That is blasphemy for those of us that know how to do math. And we see that we're losing that compound interest and maybe missing out on a company match even for a short period of time. It's very hard for those of us like me that are nerds to do that. But we have found that the power of focus and complete commitment to becoming debt free by both of you, you and your husband, to the point that we're stopping the 401 completely. We're stopping saving complet temporarily. That focus, that level of intensity is what causes people to complete their get out of debt journey. Those that play footsie with it and try to do three things at once, don't pull it off. Ish is a wish.

[Caller]

All right, thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so I don't know where you're getting varying opinions, but they're not from our materials.

[Caller]

No. No. Just people in my life who I'm like, trying to figure it out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Broke people have a lot of opinions about money.

[Caller]

Yeah. Oh, thank you. I appreciate it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you for calling.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's hard. I think that's probably.

[Dave Ramsey]

If your broke friends are making fun of your financial plan, you're right on track.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're doing good.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're. If your fat friends are making fun of your diet, you're right on track. I mean, come on. This is this. You got to stop. Think about where you're getting your information. If you're getting your financial information off of TikTok, you're scrolling screwed.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. But I will say the investing side, there are a lot of smart people that just say, hey, invest regard. Like they wouldn't say to stop it like we do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Nobody know we're the only one.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, that's right. I know. But I. And I do think that's one of the hardest parts of baby step two for people is to go in and actually pause the 401k. But there's a part of that desperation that's so emotional that actually drives.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Rachel Cruze]

Getting through it. And so that's for a lot of people.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pissed that I'm missing out on the match.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm pissed that I'm missing out on some compound interest. So I'm going to drive through this debt that much faster. But here's the deal. What little bit you lose during that time, you make up for because you've now gotten muscular in the amount that you can put towards your wealth building. Because your most powerful wealth building tool is not compound interest. It's your income. And your income income drives the engine of compound interest. And when you give all your income to camper payments, you can't win.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know. Well, and the 15% baby step four makes up for all of that. What you're saying a lot of people just go up to their company match and that's all they do for retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're 3% their whole life.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the 15%. You'll be fine.

[Rachel Cruze]

You'll be fine, Taylor. I promise.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're going to be a multi millionaire if you follow these steps exactly.

[Caller]

It.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mandy is in Texas. Hi, Mandy, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well, thank you. I'm excited I get to talk to you today.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too. How can we help?

[Caller]

I'm 63 and my husband is almost 60. I retired from teaching two years ago and my husband is semi retired in the cattle business. We both chose to start Social Security at 62. And we have been debt free for many years. But over the years, we have always avoided investing money in the stock market. We thought it was too risky, so we put it in CDs instead. And currently we have about $765,000 in CDs ranging from 4% to. And then two years ago, I ran across your show and learned a lot that I wish I knew a long time ago. And so a year and a half ago, I decided to take a chance. And with the help of a financial Advisor, I had $51,000 in a deferred retirement account. And I invested that in a growth stock mutual fund. And at the end of last month, the rate of return was about 13%.

[Dave Ramsey]

13% from when?

[Caller]

From a year and a half. It grew.

[Dave Ramsey]

In 2025, it grew 13%.

[Caller]

That's what it had on the piece of paper.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, the market went up 24%, so I think you picked a bad fund.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

But either way, Mandy, you're doing great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Anyway. Either way, you're doing way. You're doing way better than 4% on the right.

[Caller]

Yes. So here. Here we are. I can see that. Even though that might not be the best things for a financial advisor to do for us, I can see that growth stock mutual funds can earn more than CDs because 13% is more than 5%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Caller]

So, but here's the. Here's my dilemma. But we're. But with us being in our 60s and having this. Being in it for the long haul, we are just hesitant to move every cent that we have in those two into mutual funds. And so we want to move some.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you like making 40,000 instead of 140,000.

[Caller]

I would just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you hesitant?

[Caller]

Because it's all we have.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. Yeah, it does that. I mean, because you think you're going to lose it all.

[Caller]

I think I might need some of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or you can just get it out.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you take it out of the cd, you can take it out of a mutual fund.

[Caller]

Okay. All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not trapped. Deferred comp is trapped, but mutual funds are not trapped.

[Caller]

Okay. So in this stage of the game, you would suggest that we take it all out of our CDs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you living off of the money from the CDs?

[Caller]

No, we're not.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not touching it?

[Caller]

No, I haven't touched.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what would you want to take it out for?

[Caller]

Well, just in case with health wise,

[Dave Ramsey]

we also had a health event. We might need a hundred grand.

[Caller]

Well, for maybe for nursing home or. I don't know where my kids might put me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Like need some money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, I mean, so what you need to do is you're dealing with the emotion, but what we need to do is put the reality of how a mutual fund works against that emotion and say, how does this keep me from scratching that itch? Okay, so for instance, if the emotion is I'm going to lose everything. The only way a mutual fund would go completely broke is if 90 to 200 of America's top companies all became worth zero, which means that America is over. That's never happened in the history of America. The entire economy has collapsed to zero. If that happens, happens. Because what we're saying here is General Motors, Alcoa, all the banks, all the Home Depots, Apple, Tesla, everything is worth zero. And then your 700 would be worth zero. So that's illogical.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Now do they go down sometimes? Yes, it goes down sometimes, but it goes up more than it goes down. And so let me just make you cry. Are you ready?

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

In 2024, the market went up 26%. In 2025 it went up 23%. That means in those two years alone, you lost $400,000. Your 700 would be 1.1. Okay. That's what this fear has cost you. So I'M saying that not to say, you need to go do this, because I said do it, but to say you need to go learn about this. You and your husband need to sit down with a Smartvestor Pro. Go to ramseysolutions.com they have the heart of a teacher. Tell them, I don't understand anything. You're going to have to use words that I understand, and you're going to have to teach me how these mutual funds work, or I'm not putting a dime in them. And you're going to have to make me feel okay. If I need the money, I can get it. And you're going to have to make me feel okay by showing me charts and graphs of the last hundred years that I'm not going to lose my money. You got to learn. This is learning. This is knowledge. I've never ridden a bike, so riding a bike is scary. But now, once I've learned to ride a bike, then riding a bike is not scary anymore. You've done a lot of things in your life that were scary before. You learned how to do them, but you learned how to do them anyway. The time you learned to drive a car. Car. The time you married that man and didn't know what that was going to be like. All that stuff. Right.

[Caller]

You're right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you've learned about it, and you've got past the fear, and it's been a blessing with the knowledge. And so sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. And he needs to go, too. Don't do it because some financial advisor said, do it, or Dave Ramsey said, do it.

[Caller]

Right. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's the numbers you're missing out on. So I want you to get. And if you decide, hey, we're going to put 100 a year in for the next seven years, we're going to wade in.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Instead of jump in. That's okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You put 50 in already. And you don't regret that?

[Caller]

No, I don't regret that at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

And you guys are young enough, Mandy, that you're going to have yours. Decades still.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. There's a lot.

[Rachel Cruze]

A lot of time.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a million and a half dollars.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're not 92 calling us, and you're scared of the market. At that point, we'd say, sleep well, have peace and enjoy your life. But you're. You're young, you know, 60. 60.

[Dave Ramsey]

Younger than me.

[Rachel Cruze]

63.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. The. The. So, Rachel, the thing about investing for anybody, including me, including you, is you have to learn about it. And then that keeps you from freaking out. So when like yesterday the market dove when they bombed Iran. The market's back three days later. Okay. Those that get hurt on a roller coaster are those that jump off in the middle of the ride. So you know, and then there's going to be.

[Rachel Cruze]

Things are gonna happen, there's gonna be

[Dave Ramsey]

something else that happens. And this year probably won't be as good as the last two years. I don't, I am not projecting, nor am I saying that mutual funds are gonn 23 and 26%. That is not realistic. Those are two unusually good years. But I think we're going to make more than CD rates. And you have almost every year since the stock market's been there, it's almost always done better than CD rates. I do remember 1982, CDs were 12% and the stock market cause interest rates were 17% on houses.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And CDs were 12%. And I remember my grandpa having 12% CD money market rates. And I'm like oh my gosh. But that was 1982 in a highly unusual Jimmy Carter mess of the economy that we were in with interest rates

[Rachel Cruze]

of real estate being. We complained at our 6%. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But most of my life, most of my working life, life, 50 years, CD rates have been 2 to 5% right in there. And the stock market has been 10 to 15% on your rates of return. But I don't get a guarantee. No, you have a guarantee you're going to make less money. That's your guarantee. When you're in a CD you got two guarantees. You're not going to lose your money and you're going to make less money. I'm guaranteeing you that's going to happen.

[Rachel Cruze]

Barely keeps up with inflation at that point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Barely. Barely if at all. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. In the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality number one best selling author. My daughter is my co host. Today Michael is in Seattle. Hey Michael, how are you? Hello.

[Caller]

How are we doing? It's blessing to be here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honored to have you. How can we help sir?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I'm kind of at a force in my life here and I'm looking for some advice on what you guys would do if you're in my situation. Currently I'm on a day to day layoff with my company. They're currently trying to get rid of about 40,000 of their workers. So they're offering severance packages and where I'm stuck is do I wait the four to five years for potentially get full time work or do I take the severance package and attempt to start an entrepreneurship as far as either buying a house outright and collecting that cash flow and starting my own company or should I invest that into, like stock markets, dividends, that kind of mutual fund? So I'm just looking for some advice on what you guys would do in my shoes and where you would go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so it's fair to say the company you work for is not financially healthy if they're laying off 40,000 people. Right. So the future there is not very bright.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. I've been there since. For eight years, since I was 18. A single father of four. So it's hard to kind of step out onto that limb.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I don't care. They're pushing you out on the limb because they're not doing well. So four to five years from now is not looking bright.

[Caller]

I'm getting about a day or two per week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you hearing me? Stop, stop, stop. I don't feel like you're listening to me. Okay. I'm saying your company sucks, so the future there sucks. Do you agree with that?

[Caller]

I agree it's hard to pat and, you know, give up on that. A hundred thousand a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I know, but you're going to have to give up on it because they don't want you there anymore. Right.

[Caller]

There's a few guys that are getting ready to retire, so.

[Rachel Cruze]

So you're not laid off, Michael. You're just saying there's layoffs happening. But they're offering you, they're offering you a severance package to leave.

[Caller]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much? How much?

[Caller]

It's 150,000. After Uncle Sam takes his percentage, it'll probably be around 100 grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you make 100 grand?

[Caller]

Potentially, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So potentially, do you make 100 grand or not?

[Caller]

I'm at 70,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you make 70,000 and you're there offering you 100 to go away.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right. That's our reality. Okay, let's deal with reality. And 100,000 is not enough to buy real estate. Realistically. Okay? You're ending up with a bunch of real estate debt, so we're not going to do that with it. So if you leave this company making $70,000 a year and you put 100,000 in your pocket, what would you go do for a living?

[Caller]

As of right now, we've got a family business going, so I'd probably push into that for a little bit, just kind of weighing my options.

[Rachel Cruze]

Out of necessity of getting an income or because you enjoyed the family business and you want to make that a part of your next career step?

[Caller]

Yeah, I enjoy it. But as of right now it is kind of a necessity with.

[Rachel Cruze]

What are you doing right now? What's your job?

[Caller]

I deliver, so I drive in the commerce. I'm a full time package driver. Oh, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what, who's the family business? Your parents?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm co owner. So my, my parents, my sister and I are both owners of the company.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you make an income from that?

[Caller]

I do, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much do you make of that?

[Caller]

I'm only going to helping them about once a week. So roughly just a couple hundred bucks a week or a month.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, just for what you're being paid, not as you're not getting the bottom line or anything?

[Caller]

No, we started about a year and a half ago. Okay, 26.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let's pretend that you were 26 and could do anything you wanted to do in this world and you weren't allowed to do the family business business and you weren't allowed to stay in the job you're in and you could be whoever you wanted to be. What would you go do?

[Caller]

That's a fair question, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what you need to be 18.

[Caller]

All I've known is being a father and providing.

[Dave Ramsey]

So all you've known is landing in things by default rather than by plan. Oh, there's a job over there. I can throw packages and I can make 70 a year and I can feed my family. But you did not sign up for that because it was, it was the joy of your life. You signed up for that as a provider, as a father, as a husband and a good man and a hard working guy. But you didn't sign up for that and say this is going to give my life meaning. I'm going to make it big. I'm going to go make 700,000 a year doing this. You didn't have a set out to live a dream. You backed into something because you had to have a job to eat. And you're a good man and you're not afraid of work. So I'm challenging you to take a step up from that. This is your opportunity to reach set and land in something that makes 200 grand a year. And maybe you have to take three classes to learn how to do it. I don't know what it is. Or you start your own thing with some of that hundred grand or you take a class with some of that hundred grand, but this is your opportunity. To say, not just because something's convenient. I'm not going to do it because it's convenient. The family business is just convenient. It's you backing into something else instead of walking headfirst into something else.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, hold on the line, Michael. Christian will pick up and we'll give you Ken's book. Find the work you're wired to do, because there's a great assessment in there just to kind of get those wheels turning for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But this probably is a great guy. I want you to dream, though.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I would not invest or do anything with this hundred grand right now. I would just put it in a high yield.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't even take that. I wouldn't even take the package right now. I'd figure out what I'm gonna do first, and then I'd take the package because they're letting him stay and they're gonna keep offering the package for a while. So I'm going to take the next six months and do Ken's assessment. I'm going to decide what I'm going to be and I'm going to start taking steps into that thing that I have always wanted to do, X. And now I'm going to go be one of those and what must be true for me to do that, as Henry Cloud says. And we're going to walk right into

[Caller]

that

[Dave Ramsey]

and then take the severance package and then use the severance package to go live your dream. But no, I would not work at the family business. And no, I would not stay at this company that wants you to leave. But I would for a little while, while I get reset and figure out what my dream is and what has to happen for me to live that dream. You looking at buying real estate or dividend stock, that's just you looking at crap on the Internet, looking for something

[Rachel Cruze]

to do well and to earn some money. I mean, you get your year's worth of salary or more handed in your lap to someone like him, and he's like, holy crap, how can I make this money work for me? Which is a fair question. But that's the wrong way to go about it right now. Until you have a steady income. Then you could take that and invest that later, but I would be having a monthly income.

[Dave Ramsey]

This 100 grand is not going to make your life. You're going to make your life. You're the secret sauce for your life. That's the thing. So hang on. Christian will pick up. We'll get you a copy of that. Finding the work you're wired to do. Take that assessment, read that book carefully, read or listen to anything Ken Coleman says and it'll get you on the right track doing all this, this stuff. He's one of the Ramsey personalities. For those of you that don't know but specializes in this area of living your dreams and doing okay, well, here's a question.

[Rachel Cruze]

They haven't let him go yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, sit there for a little while.

[Rachel Cruze]

But, but what if he's loving it and he starts making more? Would you not stay at a company that's laying off $40,000 regardless because there's no future? Yeah, but what if the 40,000 laying off the $40,000 props him up for a little bit longer?

[Dave Ramsey]

It props them up bit for a little, a little while longer. But I'm not, not hanging around the place.

[Caller]

That's going down the toilet. Foreign.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

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[Dave Ramsey]

If you're working the bottom baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using EveryDollar. Because EveryDollar will guide you not only in a budget, but right through the baby steps. Doing this the Ramsey way. The plan is built into it. You track your progress. You get personalized recommendations, coaching for your particular situation. You free up more money. You work the plan even faster. You're working it together with your spouse. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step. Do this, do this, do this. And then holding you accountable while why didn't you do it? Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App store or Google Play. Alyssa is in Montana. Hi Alyssa, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. It's an honor to talk with you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too.

[Caller]

Yeah. So my husband and I are big day Ramsey followers. Not sure what step we are in. Maybe baby step five um, and we're trying to make the decision if I can be a stay at home mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Love it.

[Caller]

It's a. Yeah. It's really an emotional decision, and we're

[Dave Ramsey]

both analytical, so let's do some. Let's do some analytics on the emotions. What are you. What do you make?

[Caller]

So I'm working right now. We have one kiddo that goes to day care. I make 85 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does your husband make? Make a year?

[Caller]

116.

[Dave Ramsey]

160.

[Caller]

116.

[Dave Ramsey]

116. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And so what is your take home pay? Yours on the 85?

[Caller]

46.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. 100amonth. Is that right?

[Caller]

Like 46, 40 600amonth?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You got a lot coming up of that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's coming out of that?

[Caller]

Retirement and just other taxes. I don't have a lot coming out of mine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you do. 4,600 is only 48,000. You said you make 85? Yeah, there's a bunch coming out. Something's coming out of that check. What's coming out of it?

[Caller]

I don't know. Maybe federal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not federal taxes. It's not just too much for the. How much are you putting in your retirement?

[Caller]

Just up to the match, which is like 5%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, 5%. Are you putting. Are you paying that family's health care out of yours?

[Caller]

No, it's out of his.

[Rachel Cruze]

Are you getting a tax refund, Alyssa?

[Caller]

No, we're not getting a refund for 25.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, there's. I'm trying to help with this, but. So, okay, let's use the 4600. Even though it's wrong and something's wrong with it. But anyway, your daycare is how much?

[Caller]

800.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, so after daycare, which you would not have if you were at home, right?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so 46 minus 800 puts me at 3,800. Does that sound right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If you take $3,800 and put it in the bank, out of your budget for the next three months, that would mean you were living on your husband's income.

[Caller]

Mm. We're. We're about there. We typically have about 4,000 in excess each month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then you. Then you can do it. You won't have any excess, though.

[Caller]

Right. And that's kind of the scary part.

[Rachel Cruze]

He.

[Caller]

We just bought a house, and it's our first home, and it's like $3,000 a month in all expenses for the house. And so it just feels like that's.

[Rachel Cruze]

Did you guys do the math on both incomes when you bought the home, I mean, obviously.

[Caller]

No, we tried to make it on just one.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, you did?

[Caller]

Okay.

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because he brings home how much?

[Dave Ramsey]

Seven, eight. Yeah. And it's under 40%. Your house is an awful. Your house is a big chunk of his income. Really big, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that's going to be a pro. You're going to be tight on the house. So what is the prognosis on him getting raises?

[Caller]

I think really good. He just started there and it's. He kind of had to take a step down when he started there. But I think as soon as he gets like a year under his belt there, he can move up. So I don't think we're like in this situation for a long time, but it feels like we're going to go back to being. And Rice, how much do you probably are?

[Dave Ramsey]

You probably are for a year until his income comes up. You don't have any. Do you have an emergency fund in place?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You said you're on baby step five. I'm gonna do it. If I'm you, I'm coming home. That's your desire. I'm taking it. Or you wouldn't ask the question, Right?

[Caller]

Well, we have. Our second is coming in the summer.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller]

I just.

[Rachel Cruze]

Would you.

[Caller]

Would you stay home after?

[Rachel Cruze]

Would you work till work for the next few months? Okay, well, I would do that, Alyssa. And I would just stack some extra cash in another fund just to have on the side, just to give you some peace of mind.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it's going to be tight.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

The first year of you being at home is going to be tight. But you're analytical enough, you know your numbers. We can tell because we do budgets for a living. When we're asking people their numbers, they don't know their numbers. That tells me they're going to be in trouble. But you know every number, you've got it all dialed in. The only number you didn't know is why your take home pay is so low. But other than that, you know every number I've asked you for and it sounds like the two of you are talking about this together. He knows the numbers. And so if you guys do a written, detailed budget that makes you live on his income minus daycare and you stack all that cash, you have proven that we can live on his income because we won't have the daycare.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're going to have other savings being at home. Car gift, gas, dry cleaning on the clothing that you don't wear to work anymore. You know, you're now cooking from scratch, which is less expensive than a convenience based food because you're working and tired and you're not going to eat out as much because you're not working and tired. And so there's going to be a lot of other potential places you save in the budget.

[Rachel Cruze]

Two babies. Two babies. You'll be tired, but, yeah, that will be your friend.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, but being at home. Being at home is what you're after. And this is the cost of being at home. We're gonna be a home economist. Make the economy of the home be more functional than it is today.

[Rachel Cruze]

And, yeah, and here's the thing, Alyssa. You guys made such great decisions up until this point, doing the baby steps that you're.

[Caller]

You know what I mean?

[Rachel Cruze]

That you even have the choice, which is just wonderful. And so when John Zaloni always talks about solving for peace, like, as a mom, as I hear you, and your desire to, to do that, you're going to have. You're going to have peace. It's where you want to be. You want to be home with those babies. And so there's something that you can't put a price on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

And for a season, it's going to be tight. It's not going to, you know, you're going to have flexibility financially in a major way.

[Dave Ramsey]

But sometimes people, when people hear you say, don't put a price on it, it means you can do whatever you want to do. No, that's. You can't do whatever you want to do. But you guys can afford to do this?

[Rachel Cruze]

No. Well, no, but I would say the other way. If you can't do it and you still choose to, then you are going to be stressed and there is not going to be peace. So. No, there is. Is a real piece that you have created.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. But you're gonna have to be grownups with the money. You can't just say, oh, I just choose to be at home and we're gonna be responsible. Well, no, but you're not that girl. You're not that girl.

[Rachel Cruze]

And it does not create peace.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And she's not. She's. She's not that person.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, she's.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're very generous. Awesome.

[Rachel Cruze]

Alyssa, congratulations. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would quit after the new baby comes. I agree with you. I'm in. And because it's your goal and you've earned the right to do your goal to regulate Rachel's point. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Very well done. That's cool. You know, I Remember the first time distinctly that I took a call and the lady, we figured out that with daycare and she wasn't making a lot of money. Alyssa was making a lot of money. But with daycare and whatever else it came down to, they had a $400 payment on their V van and that was actually what she was netting. So she was working to pay for the van. And it was like this light bulb comes on while we're talking to her. Sell the van and quit your job. Don't work for a van when you want to be there with your kids.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we've made that trade subconsciously, accidentally, Americans have for decades now.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, daycare with two kids, right, is going to be, you can just double it. You know what I mean? So like it does start to dwindle to your point of the market. That's actually happening.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. And so it's, it makes it more and more and more reasonable to be at home the more expensive that stuff gets and then go, what is it we're net, net net working for? Well, get rid of that debt. You can do it. And that's what they have have done before today. They got rid of the debt before she even made the call. Cuz they're at baby step five.

[Caller]

Foreign.

People hear my story of paying off debt. They say things like, dang, that must

[Rachel Cruze]

have been so hard.

[Caller]

I could never do that. And I tell them, sure you can. It's a short term sacrifice for a long term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show show for it. Never having the long term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom. But you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes it'll build you a step by step plan that's tailored to your money situation. And every day it finds ways you can free up extra money and your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today. Short term sacrifice. Long term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free. Today.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Steve and Kathy are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi.

We are better than we deserve.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. Where do y' all live?

[Caller]

We are in Boise, Idaho.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I love it. That's a great town. Well, welcome to Nashville. All the way across the continent to do a debt free scream. All right, and how much have you guys paid off?

[Caller]

We paid off $580,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yay. And how long did that take?

[Caller]

12 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you and your range of income during that time.

[Caller]

We started at about 100,000, and last year we made 450,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. What do y' all do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm an engineering manager.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Awesome.

[Caller]

And I do music at my church. I work part time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. Amazing.

[Rachel Cruze]

What was the 580,000? What kind of debt?

[Caller]

It was our mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yay. Ain't it weird?

[Caller]

People paid off the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's this house in Boise worth?

[Caller]

It's worth about 1.2 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so we're millionaires on the house alone.

[Rachel Cruze]

Look at it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Look at you. What a great house.

[Rachel Cruze]

Amazing. Oh, you guys, congratulations.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, man. That's gotta feel amazing.

[Caller]

It feels amazing. It's been a long road. Diligence and a lot of patience, but, yeah, we made it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It sounds like the majority of those years the income was at the lower end of that range, and then it just swooped up, up. Lately.

[Caller]

It actually slowly went up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, slowly. Steadily.

[Caller]

It was steadily.

[Rachel Cruze]

Did you all have consumer debt 12 years ago that you paid off first, or was it really just working at the house?

[Caller]

No, we started first. We started in 2010. We actually took FPU for the first time. So what happened was in 2007, we bought a new house, we had kids, and then we took FPU in 2010. We paid off all of our consumer debt in 2010 really quickly. And then, you know, what happened in 2008? We were way underwater. Oh, yes. Yeah. In our house.

Terrible.

2013, we were refinanced. And then my dad passed away in 2018, and then my grandparents passed away in 2019 over the course of next year, so my mom moved up to the Boise area with us, and that's when we built that new house in 2020. And that's with my. You know, we have a mother in law quarters where my mom lives with us. So we steadily, you know, we had made decent money throughout the years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just working the plan.

[Caller]

We worked. We worked the plan. We were very diligent. You know, we. We went through the. The baby steps. Four, five, and six. We put three kids. We have three adult children, put them through school. One of them was in the Air Force.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

So six grandchildren.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, look at your family.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys don't look. Old enough to have six grandkids. Oh, my gosh. Wow.

[Caller]

So that's our why right there. That group.

[Dave Ramsey]

Change the family tree.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, I love it.

[Caller]

And these two sitting over here are the ones that started all this for us.

Our mentors came with us. They met us out here. They joined us because they put us through fpu. Jim and Debbie, our friends Jim and Debbie, they did the first FPU at our church. They've been kind of inspirational for us. I've always wanted. I want to be Jim when I grow up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I'm glad they got to come with you. That's so neat.

[Caller]

A lot of fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they get to celebrate your success, too. How much have you guys got in your nest egg these days?

[Caller]

About 1.6, 1.7 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so you're bumping 3 million now. Way to go. I'm so proud. Proud of y'. All.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well done, you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not that. Sounds weird to say it out loud, doesn't it?

[Caller]

It does.

[Dave Ramsey]

It doesn't feel like it.

[Caller]

Doesn't it? It was actually kind of strange. I was laughing when we first. When we went to the bank to pay off the house, it was a little bit surreal. I was expecting, you know, streamers and balloons. The bank was not that happy.

[Rachel Cruze]

Say that a lot. Isn't that funny? It's like.

[Caller]

That was kind of a downer. That's kind of anticlimactic. Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

If we ever get a bank that celebrates when you pay off your house, we have a new bank.

[Caller]

Right? Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's so cool, y'. All. Way to go. Yeah. How's it feel to be completely free after all these years?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's amazing.

It does feel amazing.

You know, we know we can be more generous. We really want to be able to exercise that generosity muscle, you know, and help as many people as we can. That's kind of been a big part of our lives throughout the years. So we can. We can continue to do more.

And also helping our grandkids go to school.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. What have you. What have your grown kids said as you guys have been doing this journey? Have they.

[Caller]

They're proud of us. They. I mean, all three of our adult children, they're debt free.

Yeah, they. We made them take the class.

They took FPU as they were growing up through high school.

And he's coordinating it.

Yeah. I've been coordinating FPU since 2013.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Thank you. Oh, my gosh.

[Caller]

It's a pleasure. We actually just started. I do it every spring and we just started this last week, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow. Okay. So the class will get to see your debt free screen.

[Caller]

I guess so.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good.

[Caller]

Yeah. Kind of surreal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, my. My FPU coordinator. I don't know about you, but I'm just saying.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So way back in the day when you first went in the class, do you remember those emotions of like, I wonder if this whole thing's a con. I wonder if somebody didn't want to go or.

[Caller]

No, we both wanted to go.

Well, maybe she's a free spirit.

Oh, yeah. Oh, we are the prototypical nerd free spirit couple. I'm really nerdy. I am super nerdy. I. You know, the whole spreadsheet thing. So I was into it. I like the plan. I like the process.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

You know, gives me. It tells me what to do, you

[Rachel Cruze]

know, so we had to take it

[Caller]

a couple times from them. I was not willing to cut up my Costco. That was the only one I was not willing to cut up.

[Rachel Cruze]

Costco credit card.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was going to save you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I felt like it.

[Caller]

I did.

But once we tracked it a whole year, I realized I was spending about 30% just swiping.

Oh, wow.

And so I thought, okay, it's on paper. I can see it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So not theory. This is. I'm really doing this. Wow, that's an interesting thing.

[Rachel Cruze]

And save 30% at Costco. George Camel would be proud of you. Our Kirkland king. He loves it. It's awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so now you're coordinating classes for over a decade, almost 15 years. You accumulated a nice net worth, a good income. You're debt free. Your kids are debt free. Your family, family tree has changed. This is a massive transformation. I mean, because when you started, I assume you didn't have anything.

[Caller]

Oh, nothing. We were living paycheck to paycheck for the longest time. The budget was huge. We weren't paying attention really. I mean, it was just kind of, oh, money comes in, it goes out.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are normal. You are normal and I'm so proud of you. What a great transformation.

[Rachel Cruze]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

God has done a work. What do you tell people? The key. That couple that comes in that first night and they're kind of looking side eyed at you and they're like, what is this, some kind of cult or what is this deal? It's this Ramsey guy. And what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is because you guys are. I mean, you're like poster child yeah.

[Caller]

For me, it's really simple. First is the budget. Getting it on paper, seeing it. You know, you're telling your money what to do each month. You say it. I've heard you guys say it a million times. You do the budget and you feel like you get a raise immediately. So we immediately had more money because we. We were paying attention to where it was going. And then just intentionality and discipline.

Always being on the same page.

Always.

Yes.

We talk about our money a lot. You know, every two weeks, I'm a nerd, we send a picture. I have this massive spreadsheet that I do a budget spreadsheet. I'm an engineer. So every two weeks, when we get paid, I go and I do our budget for the next. I have it laid out for the next six weeks. Exactly what's going to happen?

So even with the house paid off,

[Rachel Cruze]

I know Saturday morning you can enjoy.

[Caller]

He's gonna be up there doing it.

I actually enjoy it.

He does.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's good. Oh, I love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yep. He likes to save, I like to spend.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, Kathy, along this way. He's obviously a nerd, a detailed guy along this way. How did you manage to keep your voice speaking into that budget?

[Caller]

I'm the one.

[Rachel Cruze]

He just.

[Caller]

I like to have fun. So he makes the money. I make sure that we enjoy it. Right. Like, that was my thing. I always want. Wanted to take the kids camping or I just wanted to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you want to look at the budget and see that in the budget?

[Caller]

Yes. I needed it in the budget and he respected that. Yes.

We would go through the numbers and I would, you know, if we. We would go line by line. I had line items for cash and things that would auto pay and for the. How much cash we're going to pull out every two weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she's yawning until she gets to the camping line. Here's the camping in the Costco line. And how much have I got for camping? How much have I got for Costco?

[Caller]

But I know for me, the biggest thing is keeping God at the center. And this is why we have what we have, because of his blessings. And so we gotta do right by it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen. You're being a blessing by being here today and sharing your story. It's inspiring. We appreciate you. We're very, very proud of you. Thank you for teaching the class. Thank you for your mentors, for getting you guys in in this. They've completely. I mean, all those grandkids, all those people are changed.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sweet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because God's ways of doing things got inserted into your life.

[Caller]

We really appreciate you guys and all your personality. I feel like we know. I mean, you don't know us from Adam. I see you guys around, I feel like I know everybody. I see John, John Deloney and I feel like we're brothers. And, you know, he doesn't know who I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you are. You are.

[Rachel Cruze]

Y' all are awesome.

[Caller]

And we are going to see you on the cruise next year.

All four of us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Us.

[Rachel Cruze]

We're all going.

[Dave Ramsey]

Steve and Kathy. Boise, Idaho. 580,000 paid off in the last 12 years. That's the last step. Their house and everything. Baby steps, millionaires. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Caller]

Three, two, one.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're debt free. Yay to go, you guys. What an awesome couple.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very neat. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey solutions.com. Our scripture of the day. Second Timothy 2, 6. It is the hard working farmer who ought to have the first share of the crops. Sandra Day o' Connor says, do the best you can in every task, no matter how, how unimportant it may seem at the time. No one learns more about a problem than the person at the bottom. Whoo. This is true. Stephanie is in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Stephanie, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call. My husband and I recently had a baby. The last few years I've worked as a travel nurse and because we just had the baby, I took a position as of staff making three times less than I was making before. So we're just trying to figure out how to pay off 150,000 without me going back to traveling.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you making as staff?

[Caller]

I make about 80k a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does he make?

[Caller]

He makes 82.

[Dave Ramsey]

82. So we have 162 and you were making bank as a travel nurse. But that's not a good idea with a brand new baby. I agree.

[Caller]

Right. We decided to come back home, but it's, it's taken a huge hit on us financially because I'm so. I don't want to say I'm used to the money, but, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're used to the money?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's okay. That's a normal thing.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, 240 versus 80s different. That's. Yeah. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So were you making huge progress when you had the 240?

[Caller]

We did make some progress, but not as much as we wanted to.

[Dave Ramsey]

What did you do? What were you doing? Where were you screwing off?

[Caller]

Well, I mean, we purchased a house that was. I don't want to say it was a complete fixer upper, but we put about 100.

[Dave Ramsey]

You bought a house while you're trying to get out of debt? Well, that doesn't work.

[Caller]

Yeah. At least we have a house now, though. And we wanted to have the house before we had the baby, so that's kind of what happened.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, the reason you haven't gotten out of debt is you put paying off the debt further down your list of priorities. Yeah, that's going to have to change. And so your priorities don't include eating out anymore. Your priorities don't include going on vacation anymore. Your priorities don't include spending $80,000 fixing up the nursery for a newborn who doesn't even know that stuff's there.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha.

[Caller]

So the thing is, is my husband and I are actually pretty frugal.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're not.

[Caller]

I would say we are.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you were making $240,000 a year, and you didn't pay off hardly any debt. You're not frugal.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, we're trying to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you. In your mind, you are, but you're not. Not. The reality is you spent the money. That's not. That's the opposite of frugal. So you're going to have to get frugal. Frugal, though, if you want to make progress.

[Rachel Cruze]

Could y' all live on one income for two years?

[Dave Ramsey]

Like 80 grand?

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, that's what we're trying to figure out. We have. We consolidated our loan into a thousand dollars payment, and then our mortgage is about 2,400. So that is our debt, period. We have it all together and focused into two bills. So one is our mortgage, and two is our personal debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, if you can, you know, buy food, lights, and water and throw money at this debt. 75 a year gets you out of debt in two years. Right.

[Caller]

I said how?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you make 160.

[Caller]

Yeah, but how do we. How do we do that? How do we live on one income Income when. When we pay like 2,000 for one debt and then 2,400 for another.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I thought you said it was a thousand. But the 2000 going towards the debt is part of the 75.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So they get more focused.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Are you guys on a budget? Stephanie.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, 162. 162 minus 75.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, I got. I got you, Dave. Here, you cough. Turn off your mike and cough. Stephanie. Are you guys doing a budget, a written budget?

[Caller]

We are, and I have it in front of me.

[Rachel Cruze]

You do? Okay. So where are things that. Well, what is left after you pay your mortgage? Like, all the necessities that you have to have? What is left? How much is left?

[Caller]

I'm looking at the monthly total. Not very much. We're putting 1900 into child care alone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Into what?

[Rachel Cruze]

Into child care. 19.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you. I thought you. Oh. Oh, yeah. For one baby.

[Caller]

For one baby. We pay $20 an hour.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is it daycare?

[Caller]

No, it's a babysitter. We couldn't find any openings for daycare around us. That's what we wanted to do, but we're paying for a BabySitter, so it's 20 bucks for an hour. Okay, so.

[Rachel Cruze]

So the. I mean, the reality is, Stephanie, that you guys. It may take you three years. I don't know the plan, but you. But to have a level of intensity that you guys have never had before is what this is going to require to get out of this. And is the 150. Was that student loans? What was it?

[Caller]

So 150 total. So we have about 60 in student loans and then 100,000 thousand in personal

[Rachel Cruze]

loans and personal loans. Is that car debt, too?

[Caller]

No, we paid off all our cars.

[Rachel Cruze]

What did you use the personal loan for?

[Caller]

So we. It was a combination of a roof plumbing on our house.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, for the house?

[Caller]

Yeah. So it was a combination of our roof plumbing on our house, and then we had some credit card debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what do you owe in your home?

[Caller]

Currently we owe 281,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it worth?

[Caller]

I would say about 500,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, some of what you're paying off is not consumer debt. It was part of purchasing the home. So, you know, if you rolled some of that into a refinance, that wouldn't be the end of the world, but I wouldn't do that. I think you guys make enough to plow through this, but you're going to have to just look at this budget and go scorched earth. Beans and rice. Rice and beans. Nothing. Spending nothing.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, so that. That's What's. I mean, yeah, it. It is. It's just. It's. It's the mindset of having to. The deeper you sacrifice, the faster you're going to get out. And that may mean him working extra at night, too. Stephanie working weekends, bringing in even more income over time. Um, but again, the deeper and faster you sacrifice, the faster you're going to get out. And the less you sacrifice, the less you kind of make everything a little bit more comfortable, the longer it's going to be of that process. So it really. It comes down to families, I mean, honestly, looking at each other and just

[Dave Ramsey]

choosing like, okay, stopped all your contribution to retirement

[Caller]

paying into that? We're paying about $7,000 each year to both of us.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, you are? Okay. So if you stop that, that's $7,000 for freed up. So pause retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

14.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Pause retirement temporarily.

[Caller]

We have a lot of money in our retirement, but we want to make sure that we're set for.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're going to be fine, Stephanie. You're. Yeah, but this 150 is hanging over your head.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stephanie, if every time we bring up something on how you can get out of debt, you tell me why you can't do it, I can't help you.

[Caller]

Oh, no, I don't mean to be like that. I'm just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you are thinking of. So, I mean, you got it. You got to stop doing that. Okay? You need to stop retirement. You need to go through this budget with a scorched earth idea and burn the place down. You make a tenth of. I mean, you make a third of what you used to make, and you weren't even making it on that. And you were calling yourself frugal. So you've got to sit down and start looking at this and going, okay, we have got to treat this like our hair is on fire. We've got to treat this like the future of our family is dependent on getting rid of this stupid, stupid debt. Regardless of how we got into it, this is how we get out. We stop all retirement. We stop eating out. We stop going on vacations. We stop anything that looks like a luxury, and we plow into this debt like our life depended on it. And in two years, you could be done, maybe three. But two, you should be done. You can pick up shifts at the er. He can pick up shifts here and there. The good news about nursing is you can always up your income tempor temporarily without destroying the family, without going back on the road. I agree with your decision to come off the road. The baby. I agree with that. But then we went and hired a nanny, basically. And, you know when you have $150,000 in debt and you make 162,000, you don't live in Nanny Land. Yeah, that's not Nanny Land. Nanny Land is more income than you make and less debt than you've got. So that's where you are.

[Rachel Cruze]

And for a period of time. For a period of time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just for a short period of time. What have we got to do to go crazy to clean up this mess we've made? And no excuses, no rationalizations. You got to end it. That puts the Sauer, the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Caller]

Sa.