Building Wealth Means Defining Needs vs. Wants

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Building Wealth Means Defining Needs vs. Wants"

Date: June 19, 2026
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: Jade Washall
Podcast Network: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show centers around the critical theme of evaluating financial decisions through the lens of "needs versus wants"—a concept fundamental to effective budgeting and building wealth. Dave Ramsey and his co-host Jade Washall take live calls, offering practical guidance on real-life money dilemmas, with a focus on debt paydown, budgeting through income swings, preparing for major purchases, making career transitions, navigating marriage and money, and planning for retirement and generational wealth.

"Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life." — Dave Ramsey (00:05)

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Key Discussion Points & Advice

1. Needs vs. Wants in Major Purchases

• Caller (Jeff from Tupelo, MS): Asks if he should pause his debt snowball to upgrade his family vehicle for a new baby.
  • Dave’s Advice: Only upgrade if it’s a true need. Trade current $7,000 vehicle for a same-value (but larger/third-row) vehicle. Don’t increase debt for wants (e.g., “$35,000 Honda Odyssey. But I'm broke.” – 03:27).
  • Jade’s Guidance: Budget for needs, not for desires. Avoid lifestyle inflation, especially during life transitions.
  • Quote: "You need to get yourself out of debt. If you want to trade for a different $7,000 car that has third row seating, well, you have now addressed the need, not the want." — Dave Ramsey (03:27)

Notable Segment:

Explaining the "Why" to Your Spouse

“You need to stop. You’ve done a classic husband move, and it’s a bonehead move...you start talking about what instead of why...I want to change our family tree so that we’re going to live like no one else...” — Dave Ramsey (06:26)

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2. Handling Fluctuating Income and Small Business Budgeting

• Advice:
  • Keep all business income and expenses separate (05:23). Use business-specific bank accounts.
  • Jade recommends establishing a "peaks and valleys" fund for inconsistent income—save in strong months to cover lean months (06:05).

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3. Retirement & Urgency (Caller: Allen from Miami – [10:20])

• Situation: 59 years old, worried about retirement, fluctuating income as a server, $38k in debt.
• Dave’s Plan:
  • Increase urgency, cut costs, maximize income via side hustles or moving to higher-tipping workplaces.
  • Pay off credit cards today (“Cut it up. Destroy them and close the accounts today…” – 13:54).
  • Attack car debt, then save aggressively for retirement.
  • Jade’s Math: Saving $2,000/month until age 72 could generate $687,000 (15:22).
  • Urgency Quote:

    “If you want to know how Jade calculated that, it’s the Ramsey calculator...You’re not going to be so broke.” — Dave Ramsey (16:12)

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4. Entrepreneurship vs. Job Stability (Caller: Kevin, NYC – [17:47])

• Situation: Young lawyer debating between launching own firm (variable income, potential upside) or stable in-house job ($150k).
• Dave’s Encouragement:
  • If you want to run your own firm, go for it—stability in W-2 jobs is an illusion, and he can always return to employment if needed.
  • Quote:

    “Working for someone else and calling that stability is an illusion...Go get’er done, baby.” — Dave Ramsey (19:40)

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5. Managing Windfalls & Proceeds Effectively (Caller: Matt, Raleigh – [21:27])

• Situation: Military family selling house, moving into housing, with proceeds and student loans.
• Advice:
  • Pay off debts, max out emergency fund, invest up to 15% toward retirement, then funnel all extra into a “house fund” brokerage account (renaming it for intentionality).
  • Jade reminds caller not to overcomplicate savings/investing buckets (24:51).

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6. Rapid Wealth Increases—Stay Rooted in Discipline (Caller: Chris, Fort Worth – [27:36])

• Situation: Business owner now earning $500k–$600k net; past IRS and car debt.
• Prescriptions:
  • Use cash surplus to pay off all consumer debts immediately—“Zero debt and a pile of cash allows you to surf volatility like it’s a sport.” — Dave Ramsey (30:16).
  • Do not let business volatility justify debt maintenance.

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7. Relationship Status, Debt, & Hiding from Problems (Caller: Paula, San Diego – [33:51])

• Situation: Married in church, never filed paperwork due to past debt/child support.
• Advice:
  • Stop letting legal technicalities and hiding from debt determine your relationship status.
  • Attack all debts as a unified household, don’t delay important life decisions out of avoidance or fear.
  • Quote:

    “You can’t hide your way into wealth, you can’t deceive your way into wealth, and you’re deceiving your ex-husband...The hack that you are attempting...is really holding you back more than it's gaining you.” — Dave Ramsey (38:05)

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8. When You Feel “Behind” Financially (Caller: Amy, Raleigh – [43:59])

• Situation: Feels behind because renting at 30 with two kids, but good savings and no debt.
• Encouragement:
  • You’re not behind—running your own race, with good habits ensures future success. Housing purchases should be mindful and wait for readiness.
  • “More and more people are buying homes in their 40s...run your race, not someone else's.” — Jade Washall (48:07)

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9. Divorce, Cash Outs, and Using Assets to Solve Problems (Caller: Cheyenne, Fresno – [49:31])

• Situation: Needs to buy out ex-husband and father-in-law from home; considering a cash-out refinance.
• Advice:
  • Use existing brokerage/savings to buy out ex—don’t borrow unnecessarily just to avoid taxes or for “advisor” advice (Dave calls out bad tax advice from her CPA at 51:57).

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10. When to Buy a Second Home (Caller: James, Charlotte, NC – [96:06])

• Ramsey Rule:
  • Only buy a second/vacation home with cash, and only after primary home is paid off & all other wealth-building goals are achieved.
  • “A second home is a toy, it’s a luxury item...you’ll be disturbed at how little you actually end up using them.” — Dave Ramsey (96:36).

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11. The “Right” Way to Help Others—Generosity Moves (Caller: Joe, Philadelphia – [75:16])

• Situation: Wants to pay off mortgage on ex-wife’s house as a surprise/blessing.
• Analysis:
  • Complete own emergency fund and retirement goals first.
  • Before moving forward, consider long-term implications and whether the motivation will age well.
  • Quote:

    “Be real careful with those kind of motivations because they don’t age well...It’s your money. You have that right, but think about what this means you can’t do...” — Dave Ramsey (83:36)

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12. Church, Ethical Business, and the Role of Community (Caller: John, Raleigh – [85:30])

• Issue: Other church member is selling whole life insurance to fellow members, which John (as a financial advisor and church elder) disagrees with.
• Ramsey’s Take:
  • If he’s merely in a business you disagree with, let it go—educate but don’t police the church.
  • If he’s using the church solely for prospecting (a “wolf among sheep”), leadership action is justified.

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13. Relationships & Healing Before Financial Planning (Caller: Leslie, Auburn – [106:00])

• Situation: Considering future marriage & family financial plans with partner on disability (PTSD/depression; not working).
• Advice:
  • Unless he pursues healing and growth, do NOT count on ambitions changing. Don’t let hope or wishful thinking become your financial plan.
  • Quote:

    “You can't take your ambition and inject it into someone else's veins.” — Dave Ramsey (111:34)

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14. Strategic Sacrifice for Family Wellbeing (Caller: Emily, Dallas – [112:01])

• Situation: Wants to stay home with kids but must clear ~$84,000 debt
• Ramsey Plan:
  • Open to selling house and renting temporarily if it’s the only way to enable debt freedom and a career shift.
  • “If you want to be debt free quick, that's one way to do it. I would not sell and buy again.” — Dave Ramsey (114:51).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “You can’t borrow your way out of debt. You’re tired of hustling and grinding and pushing this debt monster. And you called us looking for an easy way out with a HELOC and it does not get you out. It just moves it and it keeps you from addressing the issue.” — Dave Ramsey (72:04)

• On the urgency of attitude adjustment for retirement:
  “Money is now requiring that you focus on it. It’s not giving you a choice anymore.” — Dave Ramsey (17:16)

• On generosity moves:
  “If it still sounds good and you still think you want to do it, then fine, write a check...But be real careful with those kind of motivations because they don't age well.” — Dave Ramsey (83:36)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:44] – Buying a bigger vehicle: Need vs. Want
• [05:23] – Small business/separate budgets
• [10:20] – Near-retiree worried about “shopping cart” future
• [17:47] – Law career: entrepreneurship vs. stable job
• [27:36] – Small business windfall, cleaning up IRS debts
• [33:51] – Marriage legality, hiding from financial baggage
• [43:59] – Feeling financially behind, buying first home
• [49:31] – Divorce, buying out from home, when to cash out
• [75:16] – Paying off ex-wife’s mortgage as generosity
• [85:30] – Ethical business in church community
• [96:06] – When to buy a vacation/second home
• [106:00] – Relationships, ambition & dependency (PTSD/disability dynamics)
• [112:01] – Selling to stay home faster with children
• [116:54] – Homeschooling vs. returning to work: marital issues revealed

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Episode Tone & Guidance

• Supportive, no-nonsense, practical.
• Mix of tough love and compassion, particularly around relationship dynamics and financial discipline.
• Stresses clarity in defining needs vs. wants, the vital importance of teamwork in families, and the dangers of avoidance and rationalization when it comes to debt and big purchases.

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Summary:
This episode is a valuable crash course in financial self-honesty—challenging listeners to get real about what’s truly necessary, to plan with purpose, and to avoid common traps of emotional decision-making, avoidance, and unfocused generosity. Whether navigating career, marriage, parenting, or business, Dave and Jade steer callers back to “why-first” decision-making as the foundation for long-term wealth and peace.

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For further details or to access Ramsey’s recommended tools and calculators, visit ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washall Ramsey Personality newsletter number one best selling author is my co host. Today Jeff is in Tupelo, Mississippi. Hi Jeff, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well. How about yourself, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. So the, the question that I have is, is it okay for me to pause my debt snowball to buy a more reliable bigger vehicle for my growing family?

[Jade Washall]

Tell us more about it. Tell us about the vehicle that you have now and tell us about your growing family.

[Caller]

Yes, ma'. Am. So the vehicle that I have now, it is a 5 seat SUV 2015 Volkswagen. I inherited it from my mom. Currently we have two kids and my wife and I are expecting and she's due in January and we just are really going to need something that has third row seating.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. And everybody's in car seats. The other two are in car seats.

[Caller]

No, no, no, no. One's in a car seat and then the other. He's nine years old.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, well, how much debt do you have and how much have you paid off so far and what do you want to spend? I know that's a lot of questions, but I want to know.

[Caller]

Yes, yes, I, I understand. Obviously. I have a total of 16,000 consumer debt. 8,000. A little over 8,000 of it is in a personal loan. And then the rest are credit cards. My mortgage is paid off, so I don't have any rent or any, or any, you know, house payments or nothing like that.

[Jade Washall]

That's good, huh?

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

So it varies. I do get about $4,100 a month from VA disability benefits and GI education benefits. And then on top of that, my wife and I, we run our own H VAC electrical and plumbing company. And I usually get anywhere. It, it goes from like 2,000amonth to upwards of, you know, 8,000amonth. It just drastically varies.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. So, you know, I get it. You're looking, you're looking ahead and you're feeling the stress of having another child coming.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the Volkswagen worth?

[Caller]

Private party, maybe about 7,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

They'll sell it and buy a $7,000 fan.

[Caller]

That's, that's what I'm thinking.

[Dave Ramsey]

It doesn't. Cause that doesn't require pausing. The baby steps.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah, well, We. What we were looking at.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know you were looking at upgrade.

[Caller]

My wife is. Yes, it's more. My wife wants to get an upgrade. Yeah, well, we were looking at was something in maybe like the 10 to 12,000 range. That's a little bit lower mileage, a little newer.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll let you argue with the pregnant woman. I'm not going to, but no, I wouldn't do that.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a pregnant woman talking. That she wants a new car for a new baby. And no, you need to get yourself out of debt. You have a $7,000 car. If you want to trade for a different $7,000 car that has third row seating, well, you have now addressed the need, not the want. The other is a want a $35,000 Honda Odyssey. But I'm broke.

[Caller]

Makes perfect sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay. And then I guess the. The other thing also. So I'm. I've only been listening for about a month, and I love it. And y' all seriously lit a fire under me to get debt free. Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to talk with your wife more about why you're excited about that. Not what. Because right now all she's seeing is all these new rules and all this new enthusiasm from you, and she's not sharing in the vision of why we're doing this. We have three babies, and I want to change our family tree so that we're going to live like no one else, so that we can live like no one else and drive anything we want to drive and take these kids on trips and pay for these kids education and not be worried about bills. And that's why I am so enthused about all this, Mom. And right now she's starting to see you're going to turn my name into a cuss word in your house if you're not careful.

[Caller]

Oh, I think it's already become that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I read your mail, and now I said she came by a car, so I'm definitely Satan incarnate.

[Caller]

Oh, goodness. Yeah. One of the other challenges that I'm. That I'm running into is it's. I find it's very hard to budget. I have the Every dollar app, all that, but just with the nature of my business, just with the income fluctuating so much, and then also, like, how much I got to spend on materials for my. For my business. It's very hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your business should be a separate account, right? You should not have material. You should not have your materials for your business in your every dollar budget.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your business needs to be running on Its own budget, separate checking account. All of the revenue from your business goes into that account. Only expenses for the business materials come out of that. And then whatever's left in that account, by definition, is profit. This is cash basis accounting.

[Jade Washall]

And what I'd also be doing is I'd be working to make. To basically get a month ahead and make a peaks and valleys account to where if, you know, I think you said it was anywhere between 2 and $8,000 that you can bring in. Did I hear that right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so let's pretend it takes $4,000 to run your household. You need to make sure that at all times you have $4,000 set aside. So on the months that you do really well and make $8,000, that's the time to fund that account. Make sure it's always there so that if you have a month where you only make 2000, you can pull over from that account and make sure that you're balancing your budget. Does that make sense?

[Dave Ramsey]

But I. I appreciate and I'm honored by your enthusiasm for what we teach because it's gonna change your life. I'm happy for you guys on that, but you need to stop. You've done a classic husband move, and it's a bonehead move. And that is you got all enthused and you start talking about what instead of why. And what is, I don't think we can afford a car. We can't buy a car. We're in the baby steps. And they're like, what's the freaking baby steps? Why am I in a baby steps? I don't want a baby step. I want a van. And so I'm pregnant. What's wrong with you? And this is what's going through her head because she's not caught up with you on why this. Because this is going to make you all wealthy. Because this is going to get you away from the stress of money. Because it's going to get you on the same page. Oh, by the way. And so what I would start with, if I were you is an apology. Honey, I'm sorry. I got way ahead in my enthusiasm because I'm really excited about what this can do for our family. But I want to stop and would you give me a few moments and let me go back and tell you why I'm gotten so excited? Because I can see where we're going. I can feel it. And I want you to feel that with me. And then it's. We are making the decision to buy a car that is the same price, but that gives us the functionality that we need as the Volkswagen so that we can clear this debt. Because your debt, you know, getting rid of your debt frees up your most powerful wealth building tool, which is your income, so that you can become wealthy so that there's margin in your life and generosity in your life. And these kids lives are permanently changed and you never again worry about having a third row seat. You really won't. I mean, this is the last time you'll worry about it if y' all will play through. And I don't worry about having a third row seat. If I want one, I just go get one. And you don't, you don't either. You and Sam, if you need something, you just, you got a nice car the other day. I did, you know, and that, that's because you paid a price to get there.

[Jade Washall]

That's.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Allen is in Miami. Hey Alan, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey Dave, how are you? I'm doing well, thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, I had a question. Currently I'm like 59 years old and I work in the service industry as a server. So my money fluctuates all the time and I'm worried about my retirement, that I'm going to be living on the street and you know, pushing a shopping basket around. So how can I work on saving money so that doesn't happen? I'm currently in BS2, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. All right, so you're paying off some debt. How much debt have you got?

[Caller]

Enough. I've got like 3rd, 38, 30, 800 and credit card debt. And then I have, and then I have my car loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you own your car?

[Caller]

This is 18.

[Dave Ramsey]

18. All right, what do you make a year?

[Caller]

50. 50K a year.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how quick do you think you're gonna have these two things paid off?

[Caller]

The. Well, the car loan is set to be paid off in three years and then the debt. I'm looking to put up a plan together to pay off the credit card debt by the end of the year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I want to have a little more urgency on both of those.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Crank your lifestyle down and your hours up. Can you pick up more hours and work more?

[Caller]

I can, but not until the holiday season because right now it's the summer season. So the hours are cut.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you don't. What can you do with those hours right now to earn some money?

[Caller]

Then I'm gonna probably maybe get another job. Doordash. There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go. Something. I don't care what it is.

[Jade Washall]

Are there other restaurants that will pay you that you can earn more? Have you listened around town? Are there better spots for you where your base income can be higher?

[Caller]

I checked around town, but basically because it's a seasonal and we're in Florida, everybody's kind of pretty much on the same boat, at least where I am.

[Jade Washall]

Are you on the beach?

[Caller]

No, I'm not. I'm in downtown center.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. I'd be looking around. I'd want to know if I, if I can get in a restaurant that's right on the beach in a, in a high end area where people are really high tipping. It's high dollar all the plates. You know, I'm saying I'd be trying to really get into one of those restaurants. I don't know where you're at now, but, but I agree with Dave. Side hustling is going to help you a lot. But I would really be interested in getting your base income up because you're gonna have to be at this for a while. And I'm worried that having a side hustle and this job for the long haul, you might drop the side hustle and you might give up. And I don't want that. So getting that core income up is gonna be a really, really big deal for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. But I think your ultimate. You have a skill at 59. This is not, you know, you didn't just start waiting tables last week. You know how to do what you do. You're a pro, I assume?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So that I would apply that skill as my second and third and fourth job and my new core job. And how can I use that skill to make the most possible money in the shortest period of time? And that's. That's what I'm going to do. I got my hours cut. It's not really an option. You got $18,000 cars. Got to get pa off. And that's standing between you and starting to really seriously build retirement to stay away from the shopping cart that you're worried about.

[Jade Washall]

Do you have any money saved as of now?

[Caller]

I. I have 4k saved.

[Jade Washall]

4000. Okay. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd pay off the credit card today.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cut it up. Is it cut up?

[Caller]

I don't use them.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not cut up.

[Caller]

They're in the freezer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get them out and cut them up. Destroy them and close the accounts today and pay them all off and go get six serving jobs and work like a maniac and get this car paid off. And as soon as that car is paid off, I'd like to have it paid off by Christmas.

[Jade Washall]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna be really tired, but you're not gonna be so broke.

[Jade Washall]

Are you renting?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. Do you have a roommate?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, that's good. Oh, boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so all we're doing here is doing everything we can to cut your costs and increase your income and squeeze the margin out your budget as much as we can and throw it at that car. Because when you don't have a car payment, you don't have a credit card, and we're living on a written game plan. And then you get in attack mode with every dollar you can squeeze out. Now we can talk about. Okay, how much can we set aside? Let's set aside $2,000 a month. That's $24,000 a year. What's that going to turn into? By the time I'm 65, that's $125,000 plus growth. So you're probably going to have 200,000 bucks if you do that. But you're going to be saving $2,000 a month because you don't have a car payment. Living on a detailed plan, and you've increased your income and you don't have a credit card. And when you start doing that, I think you can get, you know, 65, 67. Somewhere in there, you're going to have a pretty tolerable nest egg a long way from shopping cart. What you get?

[Jade Washall]

I think so if you. He said he's 59 years old. If he can start getting a side hustle getting that income up, if you can put away. Find a way to scratch $2,000 away by 72, you could have $687,000. And so it's very doable.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So if we're half wrong, you've still got 300 grand and you're nowhere near a shopping cart and homeless and all that. But you're gonna have to have some urgency about this that just turns up the heat. And you're just this stellar, singular focus on this thing. And if you want to know how Jade calculated that, it's the ramsey [e-mail] the retirement calculator. You can put in any numbers you want. If you don't like the 72 number, put in a 60, you probably get about 300k, which is what I did a minute ago in my head. I didn't use the calculator.

[Jade Washall]

I put an 11% rate of return, which is a fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

In good mutual funds. Yeah. In good mutual funds. In your 401ks, if you don't have one in your Roth IRAs. And sit down with a Smartvestor pro after you get rid of this debt and then say, I've got to catch up. I'm in a panic. I'm trying to stay away from the shopping cart. My goal is the shopping. No shopping carts.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. And for those of you listening, we'll drop the link to that calculator in the show notes. But I think Alan. Alan just painted the stakes for anybody listening beautifully. We're always talking to people with a level of urgency. We're always pushing people to do it. Now do it today. Be intense. Get it done. Because you don't want to be 59 calling in this show with $0 saved. That is what awaits if you don't move and start action today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, those of you that are 22 that are listening, this is your cautionary tale.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you don't want to have to. You don't want to have to be pouring into like this. And if you just start setting aside 100 bucks a month right now, you're going to be multimillionaire when you're. If you're 22.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do your work when you're 59. And 2,000 bucks a month is going to be your minimum to get your nest egg built up. Dude. And so you're going to. That means you're going to increase your income, decrease your Outgo and have a lot of focus on money. You've not been real focused on money in your life and now money is requiring that you focus on it. It's not giving you a choice anymore and that's what you're facing. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Kevin is in New York City. Hi Kevin, how are you?

[Caller]

Hello, Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Great, man. How can we help?

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call. It's a, it's a very heavy question and a lot behind it. But to make it simple, I'm a lawyer. A month ago I left my law firm job to firm. And then last week I got an in house offer. And I'm debating between two options. Whether to kick the can down the road and give up my firm that I started or to go in house and take that stability.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's the new, the new offer, how much?

[Caller]

150. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what are you projecting you're going to make it on your own?

[Caller]

So it's only been a month and doing a lot of business development, but in the first month I made about 7,000 $8,000 with a few in the pipeline. But obviously some months will be up, some months will be down, obviously.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I mean, how old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 28.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and how long have you been practicing law?

[Caller]

Three years. At this point.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, in your mind what's the advantage of the in house offer? Is it just I know no matter what I'm making 150k or is there an upside down the line so that you don't think you can accomplish your own on your own?

[Caller]

Yes. So there's no bonus. There is an equity component that they're giving. I'm not sure exactly how much that is. They won't disclose that. But really the stability I have student loan debt, that's really my only debt. And a little bit family. About $10,000 to family. But they're not pushing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you single?

[Caller]

I am. And my expenses are the lowest they'll ever be. So that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you want to do?

[Caller]

A reason.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you want to do?

[Caller]

If I was told in a year from now the law firm would be successful, I would just keep doing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then do it, then do it, then do it. Working for someone else and calling that stability is an illusion. You're only as stable as your ability to get up, leave the cave, kill something and drag it home. If you got this 150 offer, you can get another one a year from now. If you failed, go get her done, baby. Get her done.

[BetterHelp Announcer]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Summer is here. And listen, everything changes this time of year. The kids are out of school. The routines go out the window. You're traveling more. You're for sure sleeping less. And if you're not careful, you and your family can end up running on fumes. Here's the truth. If you don't slow down this summer and take care of yourself, all that stress is not just going to disappear. It's going to show up in your body, in your work, in your relationships, your patients. It's going to show up everywhere. This is why I'm a big fan of BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. All of their therapists follow a strict code of conduct. And you can message your therapist or schedule sessions right in the BetterHelp app. If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Listen, you don't have to carry everything all by yourself this summer. Go to betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off. That's BetterHelp. H E-L-P.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Matt is in Raleigh. Hi, Matt. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So me and my wife are kind of trying to decide. We're about to sell our house here at the end of the month. My wife has some student loans, so we're going to use some of the proceeds to pay off her student. And the biggest question that we're kind of going back and forth on is what to do with the rest. I have a buying another home. So we're selling our house. We are moving with the military, and we're actually going to be where we're moving to. It's really expensive, so we're actually going to be living on military housing so we won't have to buy a house. The only thing that's required is buying renters insurance. Mm.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. So how much are you gonna take from the sale of the house?

[Rachel Cruz]

Total?

[Caller]

We're roughly like 38, $40,000. And then my wife's student loans is roughly 17,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how much is in your emergency fund?

[Caller]

So in my emergency fund, I have about $3,000. And then I also have a high yield savings account that has 21,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much debt do you have?

[Caller]

Once we pay off our student loans, we'll have zero debt. And obviously you sell the house, we would have absolutely Zero debt.

[Female Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. So would you call that a fully funded. That's a fully funded emergency fund for you today. So I'd probably take the money. I'd park it in a high yield savings account. How long do you think that you're going to be in this next military assignment? Do you have any indication?

[Caller]

Rough. Roughly two to three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what does she want to do with that money? That's left over after her student loan is paid.

[Caller]

So she wants to put it into a high yield savings account because she's. She doesn't have a job lined up just yet, and she kind of wants to use it as a rainy day fund. And I've explained to her that we kind of already have that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she wants to increase from 21 to 38,000 on her rainy day fund until she gets a job. After she gets a job. What she want to do with it,

[Caller]

I have no idea. We've been just very frugal with our money. I. Right now we save roughly 35% of our paychecks.

[Dave Ramsey]

I told her, where's that going?

[Caller]

It's going in. It's. We had it kind of broken up. Some of it was going into my personal Roth ira, some is going into a brokerage account, some is going into a custodial brokerage account for my daughter, and then some is going into a high yield savings account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and so how much is in the brokerage account?

[Caller]

The brokerage account has about $2,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what's that for?

[Caller]

Just as a way to get in the stock market, kind of separate my funds, get better yields from it, because my high yields right now is, I think, only getting like three and a quarter percent back.

[Jade Washall]

All right, so I think that you have a. I like your thoughtfulness on trying to do the best you can with this money. I actually think you're doing too much. And I think you can simplify it back a little bit. You've got what I would call a fully funded emergency fund. For now, the next step in the process is what we call baby step four, which is where you're investing 15% of your gross income and you're investing it into growth stock mutual funds.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that would be your TSP, Roth C plan. And it would be your personal Roth Iras, the two of you. And when those two get to 15% beyond that, what I would be doing is using your brokerage account to put good mutual funds and start saving for your next house. Call it the house fund.

[Caller]

Okay. Would you. So in my tsp, I do have part of that because the match is going traditional and I have about 40,000 of that. That's traditional.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Would you suggest using some of the house proceeds to convert that into a Roth? Because kind of where.

[Jade Washall]

Not today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not today. You're too young. I mean, you'll get to that. By the time you get to it, you have a paid for house. And it may be not 40,000, it might be 140,000. And you're going to pay taxes on all that when you move it over to Roth. But I wouldn't do that today. Yeah, you spend a lot of time nerding out on all these plans and you've really got. And you've done a great job, by the way, because you're nerding out on all of it. You know it. When we ask you what's going on, you know exactly what you're doing. And I can hear why you're doing every bit of it. That's the only one I didn't understand was the little brokerage account. And now I do. It makes sense. So I'm going to rename that brokerage account House Fund. And I'm going to dump this money that we're talking about into that house fund as either now or as soon as mom gets her new job, one of the two. And then I'm just going to all overage above 15%, no more than 15% of your income going into retirement. All overage above that from this point forward goes into that house fund. And then when you do either retire from the military or you land in a location where you're going to be a while and it's an affordable housing market and you're going to be there and you make some money on it. Then you write a check and pay cash for a house at that point. And that's what we're aiming towards there. And I do that before I worry about converting the 40,000 traditional into Roth. And because that's your match over on the TSP, make sure all your TSP's in C right now. The other stuff is sucking wind. It's just horrible. All right, Chris is with us. Chris is in Fort Worth. Hi, Chris. How are you doing?

[Caller]

Well, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller]

I'm not really sure. I have a couple questions. So I have been in UC in the corporate world, tech world. Did that whole thing and went and started selling roofs when I was like 28, 29, been doing it. I'm 36 now. Started my own company for multiple reasons. Now that I actually know Everything I felt comfortable doing, it went from on average like making about 160 to 200,000 a year to I think this year we could do around like 500 to 600.

[Jade Washall]

Way to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Profit or growth?

[Caller]

So much profit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. You're killing it. Way to go.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. We're very blessed. And we actually just became obedient to the Lord with our money very seriously as soon as we started our company. And he's taken care of us. So I guess my question is this. So I let a ton of IRS debt rack up. I didn't know what I was doing. I was a 1099. All of that is about to be paid off completely. And we have about. Yeah, it's going to be a amazing feeling. My wife is an angel and kind of helped me become disciplined around money because I was extremely. I'm an extremist. I kind of just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you know how to sell money every time you try to outsell your stupidity. Yeah.

[Caller]

Hey, man, I could not agree with that statement. Literally. And if it wasn't for my wife, I'd probably be living in an apartment. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Proud of you.

[Caller]

Thank you so. Yeah, thank you so much. So we own a. We own a home. We owe about 470,000 on it with a 6% interest rate. We own two cars. One, my truck, I owe 52,000. Hers, we probably owe like 44,000. Other than that, we have zero debt. And how much cash? 200 and 290,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe the IRS?

[Caller]

Investment account 114. But that's. That 290 was after I pay that off, so I have 114. Right.

[Jade Washall]

Did you say it was in an investment account, though? It's not liquid. The 290.

[Caller]

It's about 100,000 of it. Is the rest of it. Honestly, like you said, I am actually pretty stupid, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I didn't say that. I said you tried to out earn your stupidity. That's different than being stupid. I've tried that too. It means you're good at earning money and it gives you an excuse to not deal with details. And now today you've grown up and decided we're going to deal with details. I'm proud of you. So take some of that 290 and pay the cool cars off tonight, okay?

[Caller]

Oh, really?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, definitely.

[Jade Washall]

Why did that surprise. Why did that surprise you, Chris?

[Caller]

I don't know. I'm actually excited to hear that you told me to do that. I figured that we would do that first and then look at the house, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep, that's right.

[Caller]

Okay. And we have a very volatile business, so we can make another six.

[Jade Washall]

That's why we're telling you to do that. The goal is for you to remove as much risk from this equation as possible. And by clearing out your debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Zero debt and a pile of cash allows you to surf volatility like it's a sport. You're getting ready to hit the road this summer. You want to feel confident your car is ready to go. But. But when you don't fully understand what's going on under the hood, it's easier to either ignore something important or spend money you didn't need to. Because let's be honest, you're not a mechanic and you shouldn't have to be. That's why we trust Christian Brothers Automotive, the official auto repair partner of the Ramsey Show. They bring clarity to car repairs and maintenance with their digital vehicle inspections. You can actually see what your technician sees, understand what needs attention now and what can wait so you can make wise decisions without second guessing. Listen, when you're counting on your car to get you where you need to be. You don't want uncertainty. You want confidence. And Christian Brothers stands behind their work with the nice difference warranty. Three years or 36,000 miles, whichever benefits you more. Go to cbac.comramsey to schedule your service and get 10% off your visit. That's cbac.comramsey 10% off up to a 250 value.

[Jade Washall]

See store for details.

[Dave Ramsey]

Folks, if you want to work the Ramsey plan, the baby steps like we've outlined and know every detail. It's the fastest route between where you are and wealth. It's the fastest route between where you are and peace. Financial peace. Two words that don't go together like airline service. The fastest way to do that is on a game plan. And the game plan is completely outlined, dialed in and walks you through giving you the same answers and the same personal coaching that we would give you here on the air. And it's called Every Dollar. It's our budgeting app that leads you through the Ramsey plan. So it's not just a budgeting app. It's actually the plan in digital form. So you want to do this. It's completely free. Start your everydollar program for free. You and your spouse both put it on your phone. Boom, we've got a plan. Boom, we're going to find some margin. Boom, we're going to get out of debt. We're going to start walking these baby steps. You can find it in the app store. Or Google Play for free. It's called EveryDollar. Paula is in San Diego. Hi, Paula. How are you?

[Caller]

Good, thanks.

[Female Caller]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Female Caller]

Okay, so my husband and I have been married for almost two years now. We have a baby. We got married in the church. All our friends and family were there, but we never filed the paperwork legally to be married. And that's for a few reasons. One is I was in a previous marriage and it would have to. My child support would be reevaluated. And then secondly is because I was defaulting on a credit card at the time. It was a whole, you know, mess. And I really didn't want to mess up my current husband's like, credit and his chances of, you know, us ever buying a house or something like that. I just was wondering your thoughts. I know you're all about, you know, getting married and we work together with money. I'm just wondering what your thoughts are.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's been two years. Did you clean up these things?

[Female Caller]

No, the. The judgment still out there. My. At the time, like, before I met my current husband, my lawyer said that I'm judgment proof. And she said, just don't even worry about it. Like, don't answer if they call.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the balance on this credit card?

[Female Caller]

Well, it was 38, I think $3,800. No, 38,000. And then now I think it's at least they're trying to collect 45,000. I called and made them an offer of 15 because I got a settlement.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good.

[Female Caller]

And they didn't. They didn't take that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you had one conversation and that's. And they didn't settle. Shocking. No, you have to negotiate and argue. That's not one conversation. And whoops, they didn't take it. So you're sitting on some cash to settle this with.

[Caller]

With.

[Female Caller]

No, my husband and I put it towards his. That.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, how much does he have?

[Female Caller]

He's. Well, now he's down to about 30,000.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, let's go back to your initial question. I would not wait to get married. I think that at the core of marriage, when you do marry somebody, you're taking all of them and they're taking all of you, and that includes all the baggage that comes with you. And I think it's going to simplify all of this when you guys can get on the same page and start attacking this together instead of letting technicality bodies get between you. So I would go down to the courthouse and file the. File the marriage license, sign It.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And then let's lay out a game plan to clean this up. And so he has 30,000 in debt, and you have $38,000 worth of bad debt that you can probably settle for something. Who's that owed to that credit card?

[Female Caller]

It was Chase. Now it's at some, like a lawyer firm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Perfect. I mean, somebody bought it for pennies on the dollar. Now you can settle.

[Jade Washall]

Did they give you an amount? Did they say, we won't settle it for 15, but we'll settle it for X amount. Did they give you another offer?

[Female Caller]

Yeah, 38.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, okay.

[Female Caller]

We'll bring it down from the 45. That was all that and then today's point.

[Jade Washall]

That's all crap. Like they'll.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what, are you working outside the home?

[Female Caller]

No, I've got four kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and. And what does he make?

[Female Caller]

He makes about 3000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Female Caller]

And I bring in 1800 from child support.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does he do for $3000 a month in San Diego, California?

[Female Caller]

Technical support?

[Dave Ramsey]

Not much.

[Female Caller]

No, it's really not.

[Jade Washall]

Do you have to stay in San Diego because of the custody?

[Female Caller]

Yeah, yeah, we share custody. Okay. But we work for free right now with my mom, so we don't have rent. So most of his paycheck is going towards his debt right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, he doesn't have a paycheck. We have a paycheck. And we have four kids to raise with $1,800 and $3,000 in San Diego, California. And so I want him to look at extra jobs. I want you to look at what you can do. Work from home while you're managing the four kids to increase your all's income. He needs to double his income soon.

[Female Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Soon. His career sucks. Okay.

[Female Caller]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I want him to. I want him to make more money. I want you to make more money. And then you guys get on a game plan. And a good rule of thumb is you can't. You can't hide your way into wealth, you can't deceive your way into wealth, and you're deceiving your ex husband. This is an attempt to not engage and get the proper amount of child support. According to what the courts say, if you're raising that many kids and they're all his kids, I doubt you're gonna lose $1,800 worth of child support. It's not like you're getting 18,000, you're getting 1,800. You can't deceive your way into wealth, and you can't hide from your past. Enough to become wealthy. So the hack that you are attempting to pull here is really holding you back more than it's gaining you. Yeah, I agree to Jade's point. And so if I were in your shoes, I would finish up the marriage, but I would also, as a part of that, let's figure out how we can prosper if we got no child support, how we can prosper and clear these debts. And, you know, if you need some help negotiating next time, get in touch with one of the Ramsey coaches that's been trained by us and they can help you with that negotiation. Because you just called up a law firm and they thought, oh, she's got some money now, and we'll say no and see what she comes back with. And you say 15 and they say 38, and you say, that's not good enough. What would you do? That's reasonable because 38 isn't going to get it. We know you didn't pay 38 for this debt. You probably paid $2,000 for this debt. Because that's what debt buyers do. They buy it for somewhere around a nickel on the dollar, two and a half to three and a half to four and a half cents on the dollar somewhere in there. And so if this law firm represents a debt buyer, and they probably do, that's what they've got in it. I'm kind of surprised they didn't take the 15, but they probably smelled on you that they could beat on you a little bit more and get some more out of you. And that was obviously wrong. It didn't work. But I want you, you know, let's try to scrape together some money again and come at them with another settlement and let's clear up your husband's debt and let's get your incomes up and let's quit hiding. You know, here's what's weird. If you reevaluate the child support, you might get more. That could happen. Your marital status does not keep you from getting child support. Child support is not based on your new husband makes money. It's based on what the old husband makes and the number of kids he sired. That's where child support comes from. And so it doesn't, you know, re evaluating. It would only be down if his income is down. And so, no, I wouldn't try to hide my way or hack my way around into a prosperous life.

[Jade Washall]

I'd be doing that. I'd have the opposite mindset. I feel like the mindset should be, how can I set up my life in such a way? That I don't need to depend on this money. And even if the courts rule that in a way that's not in my favor, I'm still just fine. I don't need the money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Jade Washall]

That's where you want to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know my lawyer. Oh, you're paying a lawyer to fight this? 38,000 and they didn't call and try to negotiate it to the other law firm for you? That's interesting. Not good. Open phones here at Triple 882-55-5225. So basically folks, if you have a credit card debt that is in default and it's been in default six months, a year, 18 months, something like that, meaning you haven't paid on it in that period of time, they have no indication that you're going to pay. Citibank and all the other rip off huge banks that have screwed you, they don't keep defaulted debt on the books. They sell it off, they give up on and they sell it to somebody for a nickel on the dollar. So $50 buys a thousand dollar debt. That's what happens. And so that's what she's negotiating in. And that's what we're talking about. If you run a business, you already know this. Bad information leads to bad decisions. And AI is everywhere. But AI is only as good as the data behind it. The best AI is built on the best data. That's why I recommend NetSuite. NetSuite is the number one AI cloud ERP and more than 43,000 businesses run on it, including us here at Ramsey Solutions. Their AI isn't bolted on, it's built in. And it connects everything that runs your business, accounting, inventory, customer data, all in one place. Because when your numbers are connected, AI actually works like it's supposed to. NetSuite's AI helps flag cash flow problems, spot inventory issues, close your books faster, and cut down on manual reporting. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to netsuite.com Ramsey for a free product tour. That's netsuite.com Ramsey Ramsay. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Amy is with us in Raleigh. Hi, Amy, how are you?

[Female Caller]

I'm good. How are you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Female Caller]

Yeah, so I have kind of a twofold question. I'm just wondering if you could give me advice. I feel a little bit financially behind,

[Caller]

so I kind of want to go

[Female Caller]

through that and just see if you have any general advice. And then also I just have a few questions on how to approach first time home buying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, we're going to pick one. We can't do a full counseling session.

[Female Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is the, what is the main thing you need to know today?

[Female Caller]

I think that I just want to kind of give you an overview and see if you can kind of decide where areas where we could be improving.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, we can do that. That tell us why you feel financially behind?

[Female Caller]

Yeah. So I, my husband and I are 30. We've been married for eight years. We have two kids, 2 and 5. He actually stays home full time with the kids. I work full time. So we're kind of working with one income. And I just feel like at this point we should have more saved.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you have saved?

[Female Caller]

Yeah, so right now I have about 60k in retirement and then we have about 35k in a high yield savings account. We have no debt at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your home is paid for. What'd you say your home is paid for?

[Female Caller]

No, we rent. We don't. Yeah. We don't own.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Female Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Female Caller]

So we run our home.

[Jade Washall]

Is that that's probably why you feel behind, is because you're renters?

[Female Caller]

Yes, I would say that that's probably the number one piece. Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

All right. I don't think you're as behind as you think and feel. You don't have any debt, which is wonderful. You've got an emergency fund. That's excellent. And you've started retiring. I'm sorry, you started funding your retirement. That's behind step four. And so I think that's great. I think the, the only missing piece to your equation or of what you think is next is, okay, how do we get into a home? And it's just going a little slower than you feel like it should be going. Am I right?

[Female Caller]

Right. And I mean, obviously we've made the choice to have one income and I wouldn't change that. Like, I think that that has been great for our family.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is the income?

[Female Caller]

So I make 155 pre tax and that is split between 70% base and 30% commission.

[Jade Washall]

What do you bring home every month?

[Female Caller]

So we bring home after retirement? Health insurance, about 600, 660 to $6,600.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. And how much of that is margin? When you, after you've done all of those things you need to do, what's the amount that you're like, okay, we can do whatever we want with this money.

[Female Caller]

Yes. So after we pay all of our just regular occurring expenses, we have about 2757 left over after all of our

[Dave Ramsey]

bills yeah, that's not counting commissions though.

[Female Caller]

That's correct. So the way that we approach it is because my commission is monthly and it's kind of volatile, we just put all of that in high yield. So we put that in savings and we live only off my base pay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, well that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 6600 is not your real take home pay. It can't be. Okay. It's just take home pay on your bag.

[Female Caller]

That's just the base. That's correct.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so if you, if you continue

[Dave Ramsey]

saving, 2000 plus commissions are going in high yield for your down payment on your house, right?

[Female Caller]

That's. Yes, that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not behind, you're doing great.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. If you continue saving at that rate, what do you have at the end of the year? Yeah, you got rid of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean she's going to be, she's going to be. 2,000 is 24,000 a year plus commissions and she's making 155. So she's got another three or 4,000 average a month. So she's going to put 40, $50,000 away.

[Jade Washall]

So all you've got to do is look out at the housing market, look at what it is that you guys think you want and do the math backwards, work backwards and say, okay, what must be true. How much do we have to save in order for this house to be no more than 25% of our take home on a 15 year fixed rate? And then you're running it back and say, okay, we'll be there in three years or we'll be there in two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're going to be there in two. That's what it sounds like. And you stay out of debt. You have your emergency fund and you can decide, I'm not putting more money in retirement today because I'm going to put it all on this house down payment or I am going to put some on retirement today and that's going to kick the can down the road a little bit further on when we're able to buy the house. Either one of those answers is fine, but you're not behind.

[Jade Washall]

You're not. And more and more people are buying homes in their 40s and I think that that just opens a bigger conversation on just comparison and making sure that you're running your race and you're not comparing everything that you do to TikTok and Instagram and the other people at work and what your, you know, what your friends are doing, your race is your race to run and you don't have any apologies to make for that. When you read out your numbers, I thought it was excellent. I thought this person is doing what they have to do. Another person is going to call in and they're going to be 30 years old and it's going to look totally different for them. But as long as you're taking the next right steps for you, you have something to feel good about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Where you're moving towards, you're going to own a home in the next three to five years. That's a conservative good purchase. And then you'll start and continue putting 15% of your 155 away. By the way, it's going to increase over time and so you're going to be putting $25,000 away a year towards retirement and you'll retire multimillionaires. So no you're not behind if you keep doing those things. Now if you go out and buy a stupid car that you can't pay for and $1,200 a month car payment,

[Caller]

we had to have one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our puppy needed a seat to sit in or some kind of bull crap that people a car right then. No, no, you're going to get yourself in trouble but you're not doing that right now. You've been very wise, very smart and you're right on track. Cheyenne is in Fresno. Hey Cheyenne, what's up?

[Female Caller]

Hey, how's it going you guys? Thanks for taking my call and listening with your advice today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you. How can we help?

[Female Caller]

So I'm newly divorced and I'm wondering if a refi with a cash out is my only option because I need to pay off my father in law who was carrying our neck as well as the ex husband. And my concern is that I'm going to be living paycheck to paycheck and I don't want that to be my future. I have two young boys, three year old and a six year old what is owed on the house right now with the father in law carrying the note it's 123,000 plus you gotta buy

[Dave Ramsey]

your ex out for how much?

[Female Caller]

104,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh so $227,000.

[Female Caller]

Yes sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Female Caller]

And what do you make sure? 64,000. I just renewed my contract and so I work at a private school and so my salary, a payment of 2

[Dave Ramsey]

on $200,000 making 64,000.

[Female Caller]

So when I was doing my research the best rate that I could find for a refi is 6% which would be about $1,300 a little bit more for a mortgage for a 30 year fixed rate. So my take home is about 3,700 per month.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the house worth?

[Female Caller]

355,000 at our last appraisal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what other money do you have?

[Female Caller]

So I do get child support. However, because the divorce is new. I just don't want to consider.

[Caller]

I'm not.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay. How much child support do you consider get?

[Female Caller]

$1700 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you get a half a million dollars in a 401k or something? Is there any other money?

[Female Caller]

We didn't touch each other's retirement or anything. And I do have like my side hustle is I bake. Kind of do my own little cottage business. So I bake decorated sugar cookies. So I try to do that as much as I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Do you have any money in an account, like a brokerage account or anything?

[Female Caller]

Oh, I have 101,000 in my like a retirement account. I have savings. I have about $20,000 in emergency savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why don't you use the hundred 1000 to buy out your ex?

[Female Caller]

I wondered that but my tax advisor said not to.

[Jade Washall]

You said it's a brokerage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tax advisor is a moron. You know, your tax advisor doesn't need to be advising you anything on your life. You've got kids and a father in law in your ear and an ex trying to figure and now you're gonna go borrow money because your idiot tax advisor told you. No. No.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Washall]

Okay. Today's question comes from Carmen in Virginia. She says my husband and I are on baby step six and have a question about paying off our home. Should this still, should this still be our focus even though we are sure this isn't our forever home or should we be saving up more to put down along with our current equity on the right one when it comes along? Okay so for anybody listening, baby step six is the baby step that you do in tandem with four and five. Four is you invest in your retirement. Five is you put towards kids college and six is you put any extra money towards the house. If you were one wondering and you know if she told me we know exactly the house, you know, that we have our eye on. You know, it's just we need a little bit more time. I might have a different feeling about it. But you don't even have your eye on, on a property. I think it's just something that's living in your mind as an option. And until then I would put the money on the current home because here's

[Dave Ramsey]

what's interesting, the way she phrases it, she feels like if she puts it on the current home like it's like

[Jade Washall]

she's gonna lose it or something. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you pay down your mortgage it increases your equity and when you sell your house you get a bigger check. So it's just a savings account. Your equity is a savings account. When you pay down your mortgage you're putting money into a house it's just hard to cash out of. You can't just go down the bank and take an ATM withdrawal on your savings. But it's forced savings. And the beautiful thing about paying down on your home instead of stacking it over in a high yield savings to use as a down payment later, it doesn't accidentally buy a bass boat height. That health savings account. Those are those high yield savings accounts sometimes. Oh we went a little over on Christmas. Oh that cruise. It just came available and I've always wanted to go and don't have the money. So I'm going to use the down payment money for the next house on that. That doesn't happen if you pay down on your house. So absolutely it's forced savings. It's trapped savings. It's not lost money. No, no. You do not put money in A high yield savings account to the side for a future down payment when you already own a home with a mortgage. No, you pay down the mortgage instead every stinking time because it traps you and it makes you behave. Protects you from your biggest problem, which is you. Protects me from my biggest problem, which is me. Jenny's in Denver. Hey, Jenny, what's up?

[Female Caller]

Hi. Thank you for having me today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Female Caller]

My husband is a mortgage loan officer, has been coming up on three years and what he is bringing home isn't covering our bills. We have prayed about it a lot and we were wondering what you would do in our position. He could go back to being a police officer. When he was there, he made about 118 to 120 a year. We do have a base pay from the military and a little bit from the mortgage company that he works for, but that's about 6,400amonth. And our bills are about 7,500.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are your bills?

[Female Caller]

And we have home insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your home mortgage things?

[Female Caller]

I don't. It's 2,300.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well that's not 7,500. Where's the other $5,000 going?

[Female Caller]

I feel like we are, we are pouring some into his business doing, you know, trying to market things. We have a couple of kids. I mean, our cars are paid for, gas, groceries, that sort of thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you don't know where it's going?

[Female Caller]

We do have a budget. We've been.

[Dave Ramsey]

Apparently not. You can't tell me where the $5,000 is going to?

[Female Caller]

Sure. I do think that part of it is. I'm not sure. I think our gas and groceries, that's a lot of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not. That's not $5,000.

[Female Caller]

Sure, I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you guys, you guys don't have a budget that you don't have a budget that the two of you have agreed to and that we stick to and that we live on every single month. You have a general idea of where you think the money's going, but now we can't figure that out, right?

[Female Caller]

Well, no, I, I do the every dollar budget. I do it monthly. We both look at it, get it

[Dave Ramsey]

out and tell me where the 5,000 every week.

[Female Caller]

Sure. I think we have spending money. We have things that come up. Like he has had trips that he's had to do for work. We ties the 40. Let's see, 2,200 we get from his mortgage company. 4,200 we get from pass VA mortgage is 23. We tithe about 750. The 10% we use 1,600 to $2,000 for not just groceries, but also includes any toilet paper and things that we may use 400 for gas. I can't think of anything else. I mean, I can pull it up if you, if you truly want me to.

[Jade Washall]

So my question is, okay, so you've got your home with the kids. How many kids are there?

[Female Caller]

Two.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. In their ages?

[Female Caller]

14 and nine.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. I think that you, I, I love that he's looking at ways to get his income up. I think you can do more to contribute too. That's where I see your biggest opportunity. If you told me you had littles, it would be a little tougher. Not that you couldn't do it, but it would be very tough. But with a 14 and a 9 year old, I actually think, I mean, I know I'm not wrong. That you've got some time that you can put into this and close that gap. Because it's not a big gap, it's a thousand dollar gap. And I think that's exactly where, where you fit into this equation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so number one, the reason he changes careers is not because he, you guys can't make a budget budget that we don't know what it is. And so your $7500 minimum to get by sounds very high. And so I think you guys need to look at that, say, what are we spending money on? What's out of control in this household and what things are we trying to do with this money that we shouldn't be doing with this money while we're tight? Number one.

[Caller]

One.

[Dave Ramsey]

Number two, we could add some income from you. And then number three, if then he can't, he's not bringing in enough to support his household and he has the opportunity to change to another career. He should. But there's a third option other than stay. Okay, one option, stay with the mortgage company. Option two is go back into law enforcement. A third option is do something else that makes more than the mortgage business right now. The mortgage business is tough right now. Yeah, it's hard right now. So maybe he should change. But just running back, I mean, he left the law enforcement world for a reason. What reason was that? And that reason is probably reason enough not to go back to it. So I might go to something else. But does your husband need to take a career that will support the household? The answer is yes. Do you need to do some things to add to the household? The answer is yes. Do we need to look at this budget and Figure out why it takes us 7,500 doll dollars to exist. That's high. Okay. When things are tight now, you know, but you act like that's a template,

[Jade Washall]

that, that's a. I think it's what they were used to when he was doing law enforcement.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm talking about why when you, you know, acting like we're, we can't make, we can't make ends meet. Well, that doesn't make sense.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, well, you're mortgage was a little high to begin with. Even on the $7,100 a month it was a little high. So now, now it's really cutting into your margin in a major way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, he does need to consider changing careers, but not necessarily go back to where he was, but maybe go to the third option which is something new. Yes, you do need to consider having a career and yes, you all need to go back over this budget together and figure out what we have called a need that is actually a want. And figure out where in the world this money's to. Going one.

[Jade Washall]

I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

I'm doing good, bud. Thanks for getting back in touch with me. Had a quick question on if you have equity in your home, using that equity to pay off your other debt, so it's all consolidated into one thing, well, into one loan. And if it's a bad idea, can you tell me why? No one else can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, it's a bad idea. And the only time we suggest you do that is if you're on the edge of bankruptcy and it's the only way to keep from filing bankruptcy and you're not. So it's a bad idea. Now why is it a bad idea? Well, in 35, almost 40 years of doing this, of coaching families on money, what we have discovered, including my house with me and Sharon, is that personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. So math is not, is most of the time not our problem most of the time it's our behaviors. And the data tells us, the research tells us that 88% of the time that you take your debts, your miscellaneous debts, your student loans, your credit cards, your car loan, some medical bills, whatever it is that's piled up and we move them over to a home equity loan, we no longer feel the pinch of all those bills piling up and we don't change our habits. And 9 out of 10, 88% of the time people run up more debt because they didn't cause, they didn't fix the habits that caused the debt in the first place. So how much debt have you got? Let's see if we can figure out a Way to get you out without doing that.

[Caller]

As of right Now, I have 80,000 left. Pay on my house and I got my wife's car, that's 25,000. And then one car's paid off with my work car. And then my truck only has 2,000 left on it. Everything else has been paid off, credit cards, personal loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the only thing we're talking about rolling is these two cars.

[Caller]

Yeah, it'd be 27,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much, what do y' all make? How much have you paid off so far?

[Caller]

As of right now, we make 80,000. My wife's still in doctorate school. She'll graduate next year. And doctorate in what? Occupational therapy.

[Jade Washall]

Is there any student loans for that

[Caller]

or she's you're cash flowing in a lot of grants. Her parents have helped and we've just stayed to the grindstone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Very good. Okay, so she's going to come out making 80, right?

[Caller]

As should. Should, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're double your income, 160. And that's. When does she do that?

[Caller]

She. Probably in about two years. Because we want to have our second kid after she graduates and didn't want to have to go into work and have just a newborn right off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

I got out of college.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And so. And you make 80. Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I. Well, you can do a couple of things here, but what, what I would do is simply get on the every dollar budget and the two of you sit down and say, all right, we have a plan. The plan is for her to graduate, have the second child and then begin work. And so encompassed in that plan is that we also need to clean off this $27,000 in debt, which is $2,000 a month for 24 months. 26 months. Okay. No, it's not. No, it's not. It's $2,000 a month for 12 months.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so I was picking it up in my head. No, it's four. Okay, wait a minute. 13 months. 13 months gets you out. 14 months, whatever. Alright, so $2,000 a month we need to put on this debt and we'll be done in 14 months. If we're not willing to cut our lifestyle enough to do that and you pick up a little extra work, maybe she picks up some side hustle, I don't know. Whatever it is, maybe we sell something else. You have money in savings?

[Caller]

Approximately right now, $5,000. Well, that was before we, we put it all towards the truck that we was doing. The snowball effect. We put everything towards my truck. It was a $19,000 last year or a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you've been working on this. How much debt have y' all reduced so far?

[Caller]

Roundabout? 35. About. Yeah, about $30,000. We.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long did that take?

[Caller]

Two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right, so 14 months to do 27,000 is not too far off. All right, so you're already living like that? You're already living like this.

[Caller]

Well, and before this, up until this year, I was only making 45,000. So I got a big.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you got a huge increase. And so we're going to live on nothing. Finish her school and get these cars paid off or we're going to sell it. Stupid $25,000 car.

[Jade Washall]

That's what I would do. Because when I'm looking at this, I'm going, okay, you just told us you used to make 45,000. You're already up against the rule of it being more than 50,000, more than 50% of your take home. Home at 80 because she's not making the other 80 yet. So if I were in your shoes, I'd actually sell the $25,000 one now and go down in car and get you something that is more reasonable for what you're earning today. And then when she starts making 162 years from now, then you can upgrade your vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your household income goes to 260. Upgrade your income. Yeah, that's probably the best thing. If you're unwilling to do that, you're going to have to sacrifice hard for the next 14 months and stay on a beans and rice schedule to clear these off. You cann borrow your way out of debt. You're tired of hustling and grinding and pushing this debt monster. And you called us looking for an easy way out with a heloc and it does not get you out. It just moves it and it keeps you from addressing the issue. And the issue is you really bought a car you shouldn't have bought. But if you're going to keep that car now and it's not horrible, it's just bad. Okay? It's not like scream at you. This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life. So bad, but it's just bad.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, it's causing you to move slower than you should.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's causing you to walk with a limp. And here's the interesting thing, Matt. You guys are so goal oriented and you're so focused that you've detailed out every part of your lives. You've done a really good job of planning your life out I mean, you got her in school with Grant's mom's help and mom and dad's help and some hustle and grind. We pay cash for that school. She's going to come out with a freaking PhD and PT and gonna walk in straight into 80 to 90 grand whenever she wants after. But wait, we're gonna have a baby first. We've laid everything out and it's well thought out. You've done a good job of planning all of this. The only thing that doesn't fit in there is this car.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. And you've gotta view it as making your journey easier, not as a negative. You know, that's the way you've gotta view it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But no, under no circumstance would I roll these cars, cars onto my home because it's going to make you feel like they're not there. And you're going to relax and you're not going to deal with the issue. And so. Absolutely, absolutely get. If you want to keep it, roll up your sleeves and get her paid off. Otherwise, let's dump it and get the other two cars paid off. And you got your old truck. She's got a smaller car, a less expensive car and we're fine. She's a student. She's not a PT. She's a student. We're driving $25,000.

[Caller]

Sa.

[Dave Ramsey]

Joe is with us in Philadelphia. Hey Joe, what's up?

[Caller]

Oh man, I can't believe I'm speaking with you guys. I'm speaking to you big time celebrities. I have a lot of fans in my family and this is something else.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're honored to have you, sir. How can we help?

[Caller]

I'm honored to speak to you too. I want to know, I want you bless me on this. If you think it's a good idea to pay off the mortgage that I'm still on. But my ex wife and my kids still live in the house. I no longer live there and this would be as a surprise.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, that's an unusual thing to do. Would you agree? Not many people call me up and want to bless the ex wife.

[Caller]

Well, she's an awesome woman and she is the mother of my kids.

[Jade Washall]

Wow, that's. I really want to slow clap right now. Like, I'm not gonna lie.

[Caller]

Well, I'm gonna do that first. I know it's a great, I think it's a great idea. But also like Joe, you gotta do this. You gotta deliver on this. You can't just dream it up.

[Jade Washall]

Are you financially able to do. To do this? Tell us about your money.

[Caller]

I Think I'm gonna pull in about 200k. I work multiple jobs, so it's hard to get an exact figure. But I am, you know, starting getting on the Ramsey plan, paying off my debt, piling up a big. Trying to pile up a emergency fund, and then I'll be. The last part of that will be saving up a splash fund to do this transaction.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And what's owed on the home at 77,000. I believe by the time next year when they pay it off, it'll be around 65.

[Jade Washall]

And how much debt? So let's. Let's calculate your journey so you've still got debt to pay off on your own. How much do you still have to go?

[Caller]

About 20 grand, but I will be done with that in about two months.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, and then how long will it take you to save up three to six months of expense expenses?

[Caller]

I am shooting for an arbitrary number. That should do it. Around 60k.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Caller]

That I think will take around 7 or 8.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

I want you to.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

43.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much do you have in retirement today?

[Caller]

I have over 500,000. I have a net worth about 1.2 million million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and so 500,000 in retirement. Where's the other million?

[Caller]

Well, I have. I'm sorry, I should cut that down to about 950 because some of that is the value of the house. If you have to split it when doing that. I have also have my own Roth. I have kids for 529 plan and have some other. There have some other investments baked in there too.

[Jade Washall]

Do you have real estate?

[Dave Ramsey]

Tell me about the other investments.

[Caller]

Oh, it's. Well, I mean, that's like. Investments are run around 800,000. A lot of that is money devoted to my kids. I also have about 30,000 in interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have 800,000 devoted to your kids?

[Caller]

No, no, no. Total investments.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Investments in What?

[Caller]

What? Oh, 529 plans. Like for the market. I have a 200.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you don't have. You don't have 800,000 and 529 plans. That's not true.

[Caller]

No, no, no, no, no. I'm talking about my net worth.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. I'm trying to understand how your net worth is broken down. So the total in 529, the total dollar amount is how much

[Caller]

to. 210. $210,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are your children?

[Caller]

14 and 11.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much is in your 401k and Roth IRAs?

[Caller]

Total of that is 500,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that's 710. And then what other investments do you have?

[Caller]

I have HSA. I have around 30.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have any non retirement brokerage accounts or anything like that?

[Caller]

Around three grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

$3,000.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Caller]

Keep in mind I'm just starting on this journey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. When were you divorced?

[Caller]

2023.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, 2023 oh, three years ago.

[Caller]

Yes. Okay. All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So back to your question then. Jade's right. We want you out of debt, an emergency fund in place, and putting 15% of your income away for retirement. Beyond that, if you want to do a generosity move, you would pay cash for the generosity move, which is going to be around 65 or $70,000 in this case. And then the question is, should you do that generosity move of paying off your ex wife's house that has your name on the mortgage? One benefit of that is you no longer have that liability of that mortgage. If she pays it slow, it doesn't screw you up. If she doesn't pay it at all, it doesn't screw you up. Probably wouldn't anyway because the house is probably worth a lot more than $65,000. Okay, what I want you to visit is this. Before you write that check, because you're thinking about the kids and you're thinking about the guilt from the divorce and some of these other things I want you to visit. How old are you today?

[Caller]

43.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let's say it takes you two and a half or three years to get there. So you're 46 years old and you're sitting there with that money in the bank ready to write this check and pay off her house. Okay, that's about what we're talking about. I think if I understood all these numbers right. All right? And I want you to ask yourself, I'm 46. At that point, I will have been divorced for many, many years. The kids will just be at home a few years more. So you're not really doing it for the kids because they're going to be gone from that house shortly. At that point, they're already teenagers. They're going to age out of that house. All right? And so I want you to ask yourself, when I'm 56 and I'm dating someone and she says, you paid off your ex's house, how's that gonna. How's that gonna feel?

[Caller]

She actually approves of it. She listens to the show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you're already dating someone?

[Caller]

Yes. She's awesome. I think she also read Jade's book, too. She loves Jade.

[Jade Washall]

I think that I think what you really want here is the option and I like that you're working towards it. And I think that you have the option that in two years, if this suddenly doesn't make sense sense, you don't have to do it. And so in the meantime, I would keep this aspiration to yourself. I wouldn't go telling the ex wife, I wouldn't go telling the kids. I wouldn't be talking about this as though it's something that you're definitely going to do because to Dave's point, a lot can change in two years and you might change your mind. But I think it's awesome that you're thinking of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's pretend the lady you're married that you're dating, you're want y' all want to get married and buy a house

[Jade Washall]

and you say wait, I have to buy my ex wife's house first.

[Dave Ramsey]

I have to pay off her.

[Female Caller]

I get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's going to feel weird. So I'm not saying it's a dumb idea. I'm not saying you're not going to do it. It's unusual enough and I think it sounds like you're thinking about this only in the moment and you haven't visited the 10 year from now version of yourself and ask your that version of yourself. Is this really something I should be doing?

[Jade Washall]

I wonder if there is. And we didn't ask him. But I almost think of it almost like a bankruptcy. If you feel like you owed someone something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

And it was absolved. It got absolved. And, and it was fair in the divorce, but you still feel like there's something that you owe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

I wonder if there's something there that he just feels like he be real

[Dave Ramsey]

careful with those kind of motivations because they don't age well. That's what I'm talking about. So, you know, especially when if it means you can't do something else that is in the present because this money is being written into the past. It's not being written to the future, it's not being written into the present. This is money going to the past, which is not the end of the world. It's not the end of the world. You can do that. It's your money. You have that right. It's not immoral, it's not a horrible thing. It doesn't make you a saint, it doesn't make you a sinner, doesn't make you any of that. It's just a guy that felt like that's something he wanted to do. And it's his money. So if that's what you want to do with it, that's fine. But and I can't say I would, I'm not going to tell you I don't recommend it. I'm not going to tell you I do recommend it.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to get in financial shape to do it and I want you to think about what this means that you can't do and what this is going to sound like in your head a decade later. And if it still sounds good and you still think you want to do it, then fine, write a check. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality is my co host today. John is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi John, how you are? How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well. How about you dad?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Yeah, so just a little bit about myself. I'm a financial advisor in large part because of listening to your show for years and seeing how you all help people with your with their money and wanting to be able to do the same. More recently also I've stepped into a leadership position with my church as an elder and what I've noticed as I've become more educated and learned a lot more about, you know, different financial products and solutions. As you know I developed opinions on and of course follow you and your opinions on whole life insurance. And so what one thing I've realized in the past couple years is we have a member of our church that is another financial advisor for more of an insurance based firm. And I've noticed that he has started working with more and more couples at our church, specifically what I assume is around whole life insurance policies. And more recently he confirmed that when one of my closer brothers in Christ told me that he had started working with him and when I talked to him about what he had bought from him and invested in one of the things was a whole life policy. And so I spent some time educating him on hey why I feel like it may not be the best solution for them and you know the young couple helping accomplish their goals and really wanting to better understand and see your all thoughts on how can I address this with the other leaders of the church? Maybe for those that don't fully know how this product may not be beneficial for them and how do I potentially confront this member of our church who I'm not sure I do believe that he could be doing what he believes is best for the people that he's connecting with.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Okay. There's two separate issues here for me. All right? Issue number one is the guy simply is in a business that you disagree with and he's doing business with some members of the church. Okay? And you're, you're not going to be able to keep that. There's going to, that's going to happen all your life, okay? Because there's going to be a banker in there and people go to open a Visa card at that bank. Or worse yet, there's a payday lender that goes to church there or a car dealer who leases people cars that goes to church there. And they may be elders on the board with you. That wouldn't be unusual for bankers and car dealers and insurance agents to be right there on the board with you or right there on the deacon board or the elder counselor, whatever it is in your situation, you name it, governance wise. So they simply are in a business doing things that they will give them the benefit of the doubt that they love Jesus and that they think that what you said, that they think what they're doing is good. So I, long ago, 30 some odd years ago, made the decision on those folks. I don't do anything. It's just my job to educate and my job to help the ones I'm supposed to help. But it's not my job to be the police officer of what I deem to be a good product for the entire church. And what happened was a guy who's a strong believer and an elder in another church that owns a local car dealership called me when I first started the radio show almost 40 years ago. And I was tearing his head off. I wasn't naming him, but I was just saying car lease is a ripoff. You're screwing people with a car lease. And I'm on the radio saying this, and he's leasing cars every day at the Lincoln Mercury dealer. Right. And so he calls me and he wants to sit down as two brothers in Christ and resolve this. Well, we weren't gonna. It was a dumb thing to do. I did sit down and I don't take those meetings anymore because at the end of the meeting, he's still selling cars on leases and I still think they suck. And we both had to agree that both of us are probably gonna be in heaven. And so, you know, that's, you know, we just had to go. That's the way it is. Bygones be bygones. And So I wasn't gonna change him. And you're probably not gonna change this guy, and you're probably not going to keep him from doing business with somebody in the church. Now that's bucket number one. Bucket number two is if you feel like he's going to church there and using his church membership as a prospecting tool, then he's in there. He's a wolf in the middle of the sheep pen then. And I don't care what he's, I don't care. I don't care what he's selling. I don't care if he's freaking selling aluminum siding. You know, that stops. That's church discipline. If his reason for being there has nothing to do with church and he's just looking at this congregation as a feeding pen, if that's how it's actually going down, then that stops.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'll tell you one thing, one time I did do that, I got church leadership involved, was, as you might imagine, a very enthusiastic guy in a multi level thing. Wanted everybody in the church to join his multi level thing because Jesus had told him, oh, boy, you know, well, I kind of stood in there and I went, no, you're here for the wrong reasons and you either need to cease and desist your prospect the congregation or you need to leave. And we did get agreement within church leadership on that because the guy's motives were not pure. He was there to do business. He was not there to worship Jesus and to be of service to a few members of the congregation. And John, if you, as a valid financial planner with ideas that I agree with are in there and you, your reason for being there is you're just looking across the pew every week trying to figure out who you can prospect. I'm going to call you out on that.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So if he's in that bucket, I'm shutting him down. And if he's, if he's just in the bucket of I disagree with him, I'm not, I'm not going to say a thing. Yeah, I mean, you've been in, you've been church leadership.

[Jade Washall]

I mean. Yeah, I think there's a community aspect of church where you, where it can be an advantage. You know, you can find a lawyer, you can find somebody to work on your car, you can find somebody to help with this and that, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but that's different than prospecting.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. And unfortunately, even in that situation, even if you're using it as community, one person has the ability to talk to another person after service and find out that they sell insurance and they can say, oh, I'm in the, I'm in the market for insurance. And they sit down and talk and it's, it's fine. And I agree with what you said, Dave. You can't, you're not the police of that. There's, there's plenty of people who are going to find methods of how they want to live their life. Has nothing to do with what you believe when you walk into the place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. And I've, you know, I sat on a church board with a whole life guy who absolutely could not stand me because his, his business was suffering greatly because of me.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I was real pleased that his business was suffering greatly.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. You know, I, I think the bigger discussion here is there are things, there are products out there that we, we view as visual villains. Right. Like we view car leases as villains. We, we view payday loans as villains. We, we view credit cards, all those things. But it doesn't mean that the people who haven't figured that out yet are bad people if they're in that business. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

There's usually some level of them that they think that they're doing somebody a service when they give you a car loan. They think you're doing you a service when they put you on a lease. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

But if you have the sense that this guy is in there, he's just got his hair clippers on out and he's shearing the sheep, then, yeah, we're going to put his clippers up. I'm going to put an end to that for sure. In any business, legit or illegit, that's not the reason you go to church.

[Female Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave Ramsey here. For more than 30 years, I've been talking to folks on the air, and I can tell you that most people are broke not because they don't make enough money, but because they don't have a plan. You need to give every dollar you earn a job, because when you do that, something changes. You stop guessing, you stop worrying, you stop stressing. Our every every dollar budgeting app will show you how to find extra cash, pay off debt, and finally start winning with money. But most people won't do it. They'll keep living paycheck to paycheck, keep hoping things will change without making a change. It's time to say enough is enough. It's time to take control of your money. It's time to start your every dollar budget for free.

[Female Caller]

Today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go download it in the app. Store or Google Play. Well, we wish we could answer every question on here, but we just simply can't get to everybody. But we do have a solution for you. Go over to our [e-mail] and use the Ask Ramsey tool. If you ask Ramsey, it will tell you what Ramsey thinks about this. And so everything that Jade has said on the radio or any of us have said on the podcast in the last three years is built into the data set. All of the articles and books that we've all written are built into the data set. So Ask Ramsey knows what we would say here on the air very accurately. And it's free. It's an AI tool that we have trained only on Ramsey data. It doesn't have any of the sewage from Reddit or something else tied into it or TikTok. It's Ramsey data only, so it gives you a Ramsey only answer. If you want an answer that's not Ramsey, don't go there because it's going to be a Ramsey answer. Ask your question today for [e-mail] Ask Ramsey. James is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, James, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So family member of mine is getting ready to sell their home in Key west and I am wondering when is it okay to buy your second home or vacation home when you pay cash?

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then you can't. Pretty soon.

[Female Caller]

Simple.

[Caller]

Got it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Because a second home is a toy, it's a luxury item. And so it's like I'm gonna buy my fourth car and there's only two of us. It's a toy, it's a luxury item and it's gonna get used about as much as the fourth car.

[Caller]

Okay. And so I was able to make it my full time time home and rent out my home in Charlotte. What would.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why don't you just sell the home in Charlotte and pay cash for it?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you want to move to Key west, you want to live in the house.

[Caller]

I mean, it's pretty great. Okay. I love it down there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your. Your career is mobile.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

I am able to move.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, that's pretty, pretty cool. Well, that's an option. I would do that. I mean, that's not a second home. That's a transfer of primary residence.

[Caller]

Got it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The second second home is I want to buy a lake house, I want to buy a beach house, I want to buy a mountain house, I want to buy a house in Mexico. Whatever. It is. Right? That's second home. And you need. That's a toy. And you need to pay cash for those because you're going to be disturbed at how little you actually end up using them.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, I mean, even if you work at using them, you're not going to be there but six or eight weeks a year. Right. On a second home. But now if you're going to live in it, that's not a second home anymore. So, yeah, sell the house in Charlotte and go buy it. Maybe that might be your best move, but. And I want you guys to get a second home. I'm not against second homes. But the other thing, Jay, we don't want to do is we don't want to rationalize it and say we're going to rent it out and the renters, the Airbnb renters are going to pay for it.

[Jade Washall]

For me, I feel like you're not going to show up and it be the same house. You know, I feel like you're going to have wear and tear and you're going to be mad that when you came back, it, you know, it's not the way you left it every single time. I don't know that I'm right, but I feel like I would feel that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. You turned your house into a hotel.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. I want it to be mine.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what they do in hotel rooms? They take stuff and screw it to the walls so people can steal it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

I don't want to know that somebody else was in my shower or in my sheets. That bothers me.

[Dave Ramsey]

That bothers me beyond belief. I just got creeped out bad. Jason is in Denver. Hey, Jason. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave, Jade. Nice to talk to you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too. How come we help?

[Caller]

Got a question for you. So, quick, backstory, I guess. I'm 27. Me and my wife, we have a one year old daughter.

[Dave Ramsey]

Congratulations.

[Caller]

Well, thank you. We're technically in baby step four and five, I believe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

But from our families, our background, we come from the Amish, Mennonite college isn't really a thing. Is it still smart to do a 529 plan if we know chances are she won't be attending college? Or is there a better way to invest best?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I mean, I'm vaguely familiar with Amish Mennonite thing. I wasn't aware of a prohibition against higher education.

[Female Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Are you saying that you're not. Go ahead.

[Caller]

It's not like they're. Well, I mean, technically, the Amish are against it now. We're not in the Amish anymore, so we're not against it. It's just like my background was I got a full time job at 14. We were homeschooled up to 8th grade grade and then went into the work.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you were doing, you were doing a trade of some kind.

[Caller]

Correct. Like construction. Yeah, that's what I started in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're in the construction business. All right. And you're. This is your one year old daughter.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so what do you perceive in your all situation? You're not technically Amish anymore, but the culture and the belief system continues to influence you, which is false. Fair if I understood you right. And so what do you perceive that this lady, this young woman of 20 years old is going to be doing?

[Caller]

Man, it's hard to say career wise. I mean, my guess is I technically come from a family of entrepreneurs. It wouldn't surprise me if she joins, you know, family business here and there somewhere. But chances are if she's like my wife, I mean her dream is kind of to be a stay at home mom and not really, really career driven. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so, well, so what education gives a young lady in that situation? Whatever the education is, I don't care what it is, but something beyond a homeschool high school education, what it gives them is options.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And as her dad, what I want her to have is options. In other words, if she had

[Caller]

a

[Dave Ramsey]

degree in a two year degree from the Associates College, local community college in entrepreneurism, and then she decided she wanted to be a stay at home full time mom, I can make the case that she's better at being a stay at home mom because of that education. Could you?

[Caller]

Yeah, I could see that she's raising

[Dave Ramsey]

the next generation of entrepreneurs and she actually knows something about, about it. Okay. And so education, you know, again. But she also has the option of joining her husband's business and helping him run it because she knows something about accounting.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So education has a value in the value. If it's, if it's usable education. I don't want her to get a degree. You've heard me. We don't want them to get degrees in left handed puppetry. That's a waste. Well, I want a well rounded left handed puppetry. No, that's bull crap. That's just you want, you want to go to school and beer pong, that's all that is. And that's not what we're talking about here. But if there is some kind of, let's call it continuing education after High school, trade school of some kind. An entrepreneurism program of some kind that is a formal certification program that would add options to her life even though there's a probability that she's going to be a full time mom. Because she's been taught to enjoy that and to value that. I don't care. I mean I'm fine if she does that. My wife's been a full time mom for 40 years and we're not Amish. So you know, I mean, I mean I place a value on that. So. But I would wager that her having a four year degree has influenced the confidence and poise of the daughters and son that she raised. Raised my dog, my wife. Okay. And she's never actually used her four year degree in the marketplace. So you know, but, but so anyway that that's a thing to think about. So I would be setting some aside. Yeah, I would continue education.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. I wouldn't overfund a 529. I wouldn't, I wouldn't go ham on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't go 200k in it.

[Jade Washall]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, and you don't even have to do 529. You could just have a mutual fund in the kids name.

[Jade Washall]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can just do that. This is for you to continue your education because more knowledge adds to the quality of your life. Usable knowledge. And honey, we want you to do that because it gives you confidence, it gives you dignity, it gives you poise as a young woman, particularly as a young woman, young man too, but particularly that carries herself well knows what the flip she's doing. Right?

[Caller]

Sam?

[Dave Ramsey]

You should not feel uncertain about investing. And you don't have to. That's why we created Investing Essentials, a two night virtual event where George Camel and I walk you through my playbook for investing and wealth planning. We'll simplify everything from 401ks and mutual funds to passing on wealth so you can invest with confidence. Tickets to start at $199. Get yours today at ramseysolutions.com events or click the link in the show notes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay,

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks for joining us America. Open phones at 888, 825-5225. Leslie is in Auburn. Hi Leslie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Female Caller]

Hi Dave. And Dave, thank you all so much for your time today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Female Caller]

So yeah, I have a boyfriend. He's on disability. He served as a marine and has ptsd which really prevents him from going out and getting a traditional job. I have encouraged him to develop some flexible side businesses related to skills that he's expressed interested in interest in such as landscaping or woodworking, but he doesn't really seem to show much initiative. And I'm wondering how do I approach this topic with him since we both agreed that if we were to get married that we want a more traditional setup where I can stay home at least part time and homeschool the kids.

[Jade Washall]

So, you know, he's got ptsd. Is he. Is he also depressed? Like, is he feeling like he doesn't have purpose in the world? Because that's what I'm hearing you describe.

[Female Caller]

Right. It's on and off. He does have a bit of a kind of screen time addiction right now. He's kind of always watching TV or gaming, and I think that's just taking up all his time. But he does have. The PTSD is better now, but he does struggle on and off with depression.

[Jade Washall]

And he's working. Is he working with a counselor on that?

[Female Caller]

Not at the moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what. Why would it get better

[Female Caller]

time? You know, he. He said the PTSD is a lot improved.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not.

[Female Caller]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's hiding in games.

[Female Caller]

True. They're all shooter games.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he's depressed because he doesn't want to go out in the world. He doesn't. Doesn't have any hope. And so he doesn't want to go. His ambition's gone.

[Female Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

I don't think there's anything you're gonna be able to say in a. In one sitting to convince him of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he is not. If he is not progressing in his healing and doing the work to progress in his healing, he is not going to have any change. And you don't want to be connected to the guy that you are connected to right now, 10 years from now.

[Female Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If he's not getting better, then you have a dream of the way things are going to look, but they're not going to look that way unless he heals considerably from where he is right now. Is that fair?

[Female Caller]

Yes, sir. I think so. He also had a really hard childhood, so I think there's a lot of healing. But he kind of lost faith in Counselor.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a lot of reasons we could be here, but the reasons are all in the rear view mirror. And the question I've got is hope about the future. And hope about the future means okay, I'm. I'm dating a person that's bipolar. I'm dating a per that won't take their meds and won't go to cancer counseling. Well, they're not going to get Better. I'm dating someone who has a gambling problem, and they just won't do anything about it. They're not going to Gamblers Anonymous. They're not sitting down with a therapist. They haven't cut off DraftKings yet. And so they're going to continue to have a gambling problem. But you have this idea that they're going to be something they're not. And it's wonderful that you have that hope for him. I actually have that hope for him, and I don't even know him as an American, that he served in the military on my behalf. I have hope for him. I want him to heal. I want him to get his childhood and the horrible things that happened in the military in his rearview mirror and move forward with a healthy life. And I know many, many men and women who have. But they don't sit in the basement playing games all day.

[Female Caller]

Right? Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. In other words, I might reframe this. If I'm going to be. Can I be your old, un. Ugly Uncle Dave for a minute?

[Female Caller]

Yes, please.

[Dave Ramsey]

If he's not going to get better, don't keep dating him.

[Female Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

For your sake. For your sake, don't believe a. Don't believe mythology about what you wish. Actually observable things that he is doing, actual behaviors that he is doing that are moving forward for him, becoming the man that God designed him to be. But if he's not going to engage in those movable, observable patterns, then this is mythology that's in your head. Don't mess yourself up on that, kiddo. So he needs to be moving back to earn the right to date my niece, the princess lady. Leslie, this guy has to earn the right by working on his healing.

[Jade Washall]

That's right. And you need to have some very clear milestones in your mind of what that looks like so that if the box is checked green, you can go, great, he's doing that. And if the box is checked red, you can follow that down the line and go, okay, now it's time for me to move on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. Exactly. That's what I would do. Yeah, but you can't take your ambition and inject it into someone else's veins.

[Jade Washall]

No, you can't. And that's the hardest thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't take your hope and inject it into someone else's veins.

[Jade Washall]

No, you cannot.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can lay out a plan and say, if we did these things, here's what would happen. And give someone a reason to have hope, but you can't make them accept it.

[Jade Washall]

No, you can't. That's the hard part.

[Dave Ramsey]

Horses don't drink just because you let them to water,

[Rachel Cruz]

man.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a hard one.

[Jade Washall]

That is tough. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Emily's in Dallas. Hi, Emily. How are you?

[Female Caller]

Hi. I'm good. How are y'?

[Caller]

All?

[Female Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Female Caller]

Okay, so my husband and I are in baby step number two. We have three kids and one on the way. And I want to start planning to be able to stay home eventually with my kids, and we've got to get out of debt first.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Female Caller]

So my question is, is, should we pay? Should we sell our home, our current home that we have quite a bit of equity in, use that to pay off most, if not all, the debt, downsize as a family of six and live in a smaller home for a few years while we get that debt paid off?

[Jade Washall]

Wow, you're really willing to embrace some. Some discomfort here. How much debt are you trying to pay off?

[Female Caller]

I believe it totaled about 84 to 86,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

On what?

[Female Caller]

All right, we have two credit cards and a line of credit. That's about 12. My student loan is 13. My husband's grad school loan is 25. We have an auto loan that's 16,000. Before you told me to sell the car. The car is only worth 8, 700. We consolidated debt, stupidly, a few years ago, and so the loan is more than the car is worth worth. And then we have a home improvement loan that's tied to the mortgage. It's 20,000. And then our mortgage is 212 with a lovely 3% interest rate.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is the home worth?

[Female Caller]

I think if we sold it, we could maybe make 340 to 350. We have not gotten serious comps on it yet, but just in my research, that's what.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your household income?

[Female Caller]

We bring home about 95 to 10 per month, sometimes a little bit more. I'm in sales, so I occasionally have a bonus.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you bring home 99, $9,500 a month?

[Female Caller]

Yes, my husband and I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so about 150k a year.

[Female Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Washall]

What portion of that is. Is from you and what portion is from him?

[Female Caller]

Oh, gosh. I think his. After taxes and everything on our budget, it's 4731.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Female Caller]

Mine is the rest.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so we've got to get this to the point where you can live on 4700 bucks a month. Assuming nothing changes in his income.

[Female Caller]

Yes. And he is trying to up his income. He's a teacher and a Coach looking into some principalship, things like that. But right now, that's what it's at.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you like your house?

[Female Caller]

I do. We've done a lot of work to it. It's not our forever house, but it fits us well right now.

[Jade Washall]

What do you pay for it? Every month. What's the mortgage?

[Female Caller]

Our mortgage is 1,947.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, that's pretty good. I don't see how today selling the house is the key to this. Because I think I heard you say you owe 312 and it's worth 340.

[Dave Ramsey]

340 and they owe 212.

[Jade Washall]

212.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, 100,000. It clears up their debt. Okay, 100% debt free. If they sold it, Yeah, I might sell it and raise rent for a couple years and save up my down payment for the next house. But the next house has to be purchased in such a way that it allows you to quit. That's the trick. But yeah, if you want to be debt free quick, that's one way to do it. I would not sell it and buy again. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back. From the first company call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near [e-mail] agent. That's Ramsey Solutions.com. Proverbs 3:3 is our scripture of the day. Let love and faithfulness never leave you. Bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart. Then you will win favor and a good name in the sight of God and man. Conrad Hilton said, success seems to be connected with action. Successful men keep moving. They make mistakes, but they don't quit. Almost what we were talking about with Leslie a minute ago. Action involved. Yeah. Martha is in Nashville. Hi, Martha. How are you?

[Female Caller]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Female Caller]

Yes, I'm calling because about nine months ago. Well, actually, I would say eight months ago, me and my husband decided to pull our kids out of public school and homeschool them for a bunch of different reasons. And we have done that. And now I'm actually eager to go back to work for a bunch of other reasons. Reason. And so I'm just calling to see if it is the best choice in us for me to put my kids back in public school and go back to work full time.

[Jade Washall]

What changed?

[Female Caller]

Well, about a year ago, or actually right before we started homeschooling our kids, we were in marriage counseling for about almost a year at that point. And the very last session that we had had with our marriage counselor, he had recommended to me that I separate from my husband due to some verbal abuse and emotional abuse that was going on. That in all honesty, I'm not really for sure if I would consider verbal abuse or emotional abuse. But he had picked up on a few things that we had talked about, and so I let it go. And we said that we wanted to take a break and counseling also got very excited. Expensive for us. Well, about a couple of months later or a month later actually changed where I just felt the need that we needed to homeschool, and I brought it up to my husband and we proceeded forward. Well, the last eight months.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, what does that have to do with the homemade separating?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah,

[Female Caller]

I really don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't either.

[Female Caller]

It's very confusing to me as well. But I guess I had just ignored anything the counselor and I had proceeded just to move on with my life as if he had never went to marriage counsel.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so. So you approached your husband and said, let's do homeschooling. You started doing homeschooling. It's been eight months, and now you want to go back to work. What. What has changed?

[Female Caller]

We're not on the same page financially. That got brought up in marriage counseling as well, and I ignored it then. And so homeschooling, in all honesty, has brought out a lot of things that I. I guess I was blind to ignored. But being home as much as I have been and seeing the chaos that has run amok in my house, where the discipline is not there, the interest and the baby steps is not there, the interest in. About anything in our marriage is not there. And I guess I needed homeschool to at least show me that.

[Jade Washall]

Understood. So you're seeing the money's a mess. Everything's a mess.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got a feeling you want to get a job so you can leave.

[Female Caller]

I don't necessarily want to leave, but I do want to get out of the house. And. And I didn't realize how much I was going to miss working until I stopped working. And since we are not on the same page financially, I don't know how

[Dave Ramsey]

you getting a job is going to fix this entire soup that you have explained.

[Female Caller]

I don't believe that.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's. You're in the middle of a soup being stirred around and you getting a job versus homeschooling is just one item in the restaurant recipe. And you keep jumping from one thing to another thinking that have nothing to do with your marriage problems. Thinking it's going to fix your marriage problem. And it never does because you refuse to address the marriage problem.

[Female Caller]

See, I don't. I don't think I'm trying to avoid dressing the marriage problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you both quit and then you quit work to come home with the kids for that has nothing is not connected at all to your marriage problem. If you tell me just seems random and impossible, impulsive.

[Jade Washall]

If you tell me you went and saw a marriage counselor because you needed a professional to step in. And then the professional has said, you've got a problem here, you've got a problem here and a problem here. But you've said I've ignored what he said and you've done your own thing then. Yeah, I think that's where the issue is. You got to listen to the professional.

[Dave Ramsey]

99 of what will be fixed in your home is going to be fixed. When you guys get your marital issues aligned and get and spend your time on that. I would spend all of my energy on that. If you want to go back to work while you're doing that, that's fine. Or if you're going back to work and in your mind you're going, I need some money because I need to hire an attorney and this is over, then that's a decision. That's a logical decision. I'm not sure it's a good one, but it's a logical one at least. But this just. I'm going to come home and then I'm going to go back to work and then I'm going to come home and meanwhile everything's burning down around me and I'm ignoring that.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's not okay. There's not be going to going to help you. So yeah, go on back to work. That's fine. I don't care. Doesn't matter. But you're still going to have hell on earth until you deal with this. That's not going away until you deal with it. So my suggestion is you use some of your new income to pay the marriage another marriage counselor, a different one. And the two of you lean into that. And if you're not going to lean into that and heal this thing, then call it. If you're not going to fix it, call it because your Children are suffering in the middle of this cesspool right now that you call a relationship. Relationship. It's awful. Bill is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Bill, how are you?

[Caller]

Howdy. Howdy. How's it going? Doing well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller]

So my grandma really wants her childhood home to stay in the family. And my wife and I were thinking about buying it from her. And so we've actually been renting it from her to kind of test drive it and see, see if we like it. And I pitched to her last weekend the idea of doing a rent to own situation rather than going through the tradition additional bank because I've never had a loan in my whole life and I don't plan to get any debt ever. And she's on board with it. So I just want to know where from here we should go to get like a lawyer involved to make this official.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would not do a rent to own, but I see what you're after. I'll give you a different structure. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the house worth and what's she going to sell it to you for?

[Caller]

It's worth about 1, 130 and I think she's going to sell it to us for about a 100.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how old are you two?

[Caller]

We are in our early 20s. I'm 23.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you all make?

[Caller]

I make around 62,000 and my wife is a stay at home mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, Well, a couple things need to be addressed. How old is granny?

[Caller]

She is in her late 70s and we have talked about the situation, which she passes away. She's, you know, that's been in the conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, she passes away. You've got to have legal documentation that protects you.

[Caller]

Exactly, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what I would do if I were her and I wanted you to have this house is I would sell it to you for $100,000, put it in your name, and I would carry back the note. And. And when I die, the note is forgiven.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I would do if I were her and I wanted you to have this house. Okay. Now the downside of that is your parent and siblings, your aunts and uncles might feel cheated out of $100,000.

[Caller]

Right. It is an older home, actually, and my wife and I have been putting out a lot of work.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't need to put work in somebody else's house. Stop that. You are not on this house. Do not put any work into someone else's house.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't do that. That's going to end up in disappointment and anger later notice, okay? She dies, you got nothing written down. If she dies, from tomorrow, all the work that you put in is going to be taken by your aunts and uncles and they're going to sell that house and they're going to make money on it. On your work. Do not do this anymore until this house is in your name. Stop working on it.

[Caller]

Well, she's paying me for the labor fees, so it evens out, I feel like. But I understand what you're saying, okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

But you've got your heart and soul going into this and you're going to get your heart broken if you guys don't get this written down and quit acting like it's all going to work out.

[Female Caller]

Out.

[Dave Ramsey]

So get it written down, whatever it is. Go to a real estate attorney and come up with a structure of some kind in writing that protects you in the event of her death. And then lastly, I'm gonna go ahead and disappoint grandmother. There's zero percent chance you're gonna be living in this house when you're 70. Zero. Keep that in mind. That puts us, our, the Ramsey show, in the books. We'll be back with you big, before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.