Changing Your Money Mindset Is The First Step To Lasting Wealth

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show

Episode: Changing Your Money Mindset Is The First Step To Lasting Wealth
Air Date: July 7, 2026
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: George Kamel
Theme: Transforming your relationship with money to build lasting wealth—starting with changing your mindset, being proactive, and taking practical steps, regardless of past mistakes.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the critical importance of changing your money mindset as the first step toward true, lasting wealth. Dave Ramsey and George Kamel answer real listener calls, addressing common (and uncommon) financial challenges—from crushing rent payments, staying motivated through boring financial ‘purgatory’, sorting post-divorce finances, and the real impact of debt. Throughout, they stress practical strategies, tough love, and the need for proactive, intentional action to break free from financial traps and move toward a life of stability and generosity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Getting Unstuck from Tough Financial Situations

• Caller: Sarah (Philadelphia) | [00:54–08:33]
  • Stuck in a lease that’s now 60% of take-home pay due to yearly increases.
  • No roommates, but open to finding one.
  • Advice:
    • Get aggressive about finding a roommate and/or side hustle.
    • Proactively notify landlord of plans to leave at lease-end.
    • Read lease for early termination options, but with corporate landlords, options are slim.
  • Notable Quote:
    • Dave: “You signed up two months ago for, you know, mathematical suicide mission... I want you to be very proactive with this landlord in the future. When it comes up, you’re what’s known as gone girl. I’m out of here.” [05:11, 05:33]

2. Staying Motivated on the Wealth Journey

• Caller: Tiffany (Spokane) | [10:25–15:19]
  • Feels stuck saving her emergency fund after paying off $24,000 debt (“Baby Step 3”).
  • Lacks emotional reward compared to paying off creditors.
  • Advice:
    • Treat saving like debt payoff—manufacture motivation and intensity.
    • Remember, emergency funds turn chaos into inconvenience.
  • Notable Quotes:
    • Dave: “Pain avoidance is more motivating than pleasure seeking. Both things motivate humans. Saving side is pleasure seeking. Wealth building is pleasure seeking.” [12:08]
    • George: “Baby Step 3 is financial purgatory—you’re stacking acorns for winter, buying yourself a never-go-into-debt-again insurance plan.” [12:27]

3. Relationship, Readiness, and Married Money

• Caller: Michael (Houston) | [15:25–19:50]
  • Young couple (20 & 19), she wants to get married; he feels unready. Both have no debt.
  • Dave emphasizes emotional and spiritual readiness, plus full money alignment.
  • Dave: “If you guys are not aligned on how you’re going to handle your money when you get married, then you’re not ready.” [17:48]

4. The Myths and Realities of Real Estate Investing

• Caller: Michelle (Cleveland) | [21:44–28:51]
  • Wants to know if Airbnb is a good retirement side hustle.
  • Team explains:
    • Airbnb is often overhyped and high-hassle ("you’re running a hotel").
    • It is not passive income. Could tie up resources and cause headaches.
    • Consider passive, lower-hassle investments or traditional rentals instead.
  • Memorable Exchange:
    • “Fabulous return on investment, but you’re running a trailer park.” (Dave) [24:03]
    • “They’re selling you a dream, a nightmare. That’s it.” (George) [28:51]

5. Is it Smarter to Pay off Your House?

• Caller: Michael (Miami) | [28:59–31:13]
  • Debates selling investments (and incurring capital gains) to pay off the mortgage.
  • Dave: “Do it by nightfall... I’ve never had anybody call me saying they regretted paying off their mortgage.”

6. College Planning, Inheritance, and Financial Responsibility

• Caller: Amy (Detroit) | [43:59–52:05]
  • Should she pay for her son’s college by drawing from inherited funds?
  • Teach financial responsibility by involving son in budgeting, balancing full coverage with expectations for earning and scholarships.
  • “If the guy’s a senior and by now he hasn’t learned it, not paying for his college is not going to fix him. It’s too late.” (Dave) [45:45]
  • “It’s not virtuous to let your kid go into student debt because you don’t want them to become entitled.” (George) [51:39]

7. The Truth about Credit Scores and Family Pressure

• Caller: Dylan (Springfield, IL) | [56:07–62:44]
  • Mother pressures him to get a credit card for his credit score; he doesn’t want one.
  • Dave/George unpack the “credit score myth”—good credit is not a sign of wealth, just of lots of borrowing.
  • “An 850 FICO score simply means you borrowed money like you’re in Congress and you pay it back.” (Dave) [61:44]

8. When is Buying a House Smart?

• Caller: Cindy (Chicago) | [65:31–69:43]
  • Considering a mortgage where the payment would be 43% of take-home pay.
  • Advised against, due to risk of being “house poor.” Seek a lower percentage or bigger downpayment.

9. Should You Sell Your Car to Pay Debt Faster?

• Caller: Megan (Philadelphia) | [69:51–74:21]
  • $36k debt, $10k on a car, considering selling.
  • With $98k income and aggressive payments, pays off in a year. No need to sell unless she wants to; if you can be debt-free in 2 years without selling, keep the car.

10. Dealing with Post-Divorce Financial Hopelessness

• Caller: David (Greenville, SC) | [79:18–86:34]
  • Feeling hopeless after divorce, $50k credit card debt on $70k income.
  • Ramsey acknowledges his grief—lack of motivation is natural. Healing (therapy, pastoral care) is crucial before financial “fight” can return.
  • “I think it’s going to take you a little while to get your fight back, your swagger back... It’s real easy to just sit in the asset of this and play it over and over and over in your head.” (Dave) [83:18–85:16]

11. Identity, Work, and Status

• Caller: Jeff (Sacramento) | [120:01–127:56]
  • Successful piano tuner ($200k/year) feels embarrassed to tell people his job due to stereotypes.
  • Dave: “Who gives a crap what people think? ... Your father-in-law taught you the trade, right? He’s proud of you, which means your wife is, your kids are eating really well. You’ve built an unusually high-paying... You are the elite.” [121:11–125:04]
  • Discussion on not letting social stereotypes define self-worth.

12. Debt-Free Scream: Youth and Discipline Pay Off

• Mark and Teagan (Bay City, MI) | [108:00–116:41]
  • Paid off $140,000 in five years (student loans & mortgage); 27 years old and own their home outright.
  • Emphasize sacrifice, budgeting, saying “no” to short-term fun for long-term gain.
  • Memorable Quotes:
    • “We save so much quicker too, you know. We’re not paying for things in the past.” (Teagan) [114:09]
    • “Most people live in mediocrity for 50 years because they are unwilling to sacrifice for five. You guys did the opposite.” (George) [115:58]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Desperate usually equals stupid for me and a lot of people.” — Dave Ramsey [07:29]
• “You’re buying yourself a never go into debt again insurance plan. And insurance is not sexy. It is meant to be boring.” — George Kamel [12:27]
• “No one has ever complained that paid off their mortgage because I told them to. ... I’ve never got anybody to say, ‘Don’t do it, Dave, I paid off my mortgage and then I went broke.’” — Dave Ramsey [29:45]
• “It’s not virtuous to let your kid go into student debt because you don’t want them to become entitled.” — George Kamel [51:39]
• “An 850 FICO score simply means you borrowed money like you’re in Congress and you pay it back.” — Dave Ramsey [61:44]
• “Who gives a crap what people think? ... There’s a lot of lawyers that don’t make that.” — Dave Ramsey to Jeff, the piano tuner [121:11]
• “Most people live in mediocrity for 50 years because they are unwilling to sacrifice for five. You guys did the opposite.” — George Kamel, celebrating Mark & Teagan’s debt-free journey [115:58]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:54 | Sarah’s lease/rent trap—proactive roommate/side hustle advice | | 10:25 | Tiffany’s loss of motivation post-debt-payoff | | 15:25 | Michael’s young couple marriage & financial alignment discussion | | 21:44 | Michelle’s retirement & Airbnb realities | | 28:59 | Mortgage payoff from investments | | 43:59 | College costs, inheritance, and parenting financial values | | 56:07 | Credit card pressure from a parent—credit myth mythbusting | | 65:31 | Buying a house with a high payment—being “house poor” | | 69:51 | Should Megan sell the car to pay debt earlier? | | 79:18 | David’s post-divorce financial (and emotional) hopelessness | | 108:00 | Mark & Teagan’s debt-free scream—young couple, big discipline | | 120:01 | Jeff’s piano tuner identity & “work shame” |

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Closing Thoughts: Change Your Mindset, Not Just Your Math

This episode repeatedly encourages listeners to take honest, sometimes uncomfortable stock of their financial thinking and habits—then commit to hard, sometimes uncomfortable actions. Whether it’s negotiating with a landlord, slogging through the “boring” parts of wealth-building, resisting the pressure to keep up appearances, or rallying from deep personal setbacks, Dave and George remind listeners that radical personal responsibility, proactive problem-solving, and focusing on your long-term goals—not how you “measure up”—is the first step to changing your financial future.

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For more resources, callers, and tools mentioned in the episode, visit RamseySolutions.com

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey network and the Fair Winds Credit union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. George Camel Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and co host of the Smart Money happy hour. He's my co host today day open phones at 888-825-5225. The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Sarah is in Philadelphia. Hi Sarah, what's up in your world?

[Caller]

Hi, I. It's. I can't believe I'm talking to you. This is crazy. What a blessing. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we're honored to have you. How can we help?

[Caller]

Wow.

Okay. So I am stuck in a apartment lease that is around 60% of my take home pay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What happened?

[Caller]

So I signed on about three years ago when it was around 45% and so they've been increasing it around 10 to 15% every year. And I have to admit I'm 30 years old so I was around 27 when I signed on and I wasn't very responsible with money at that time. But as I've started listening to your show, I've become like very aware. I kind of took the blindfold off and started looking at my finances and it's just I have this for about 11 more months and it's really hard for me to be able to like work my payoff debt journey and have any margin. So I was hoping maybe you had some advice.

[Dave Ramsey]

When's the lease up?

[Caller]

So the lease is up this upcoming May,

[Dave Ramsey]

a year?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where were you two months ago?

[Caller]

I was there and they. The landlord gave me. She said you have a week to either find a new place to live or sign on to this increase. And if you don't sign within a week, we're going to raise it to instead of 2100, go raise it to 2300 for the year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so you decide not to move?

[Caller]

Yeah, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which you should have moved two months ago. Right. That would have solved the whole problem.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How many bedrooms is the apartment?

[Caller]

It has two.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many roommates do you have?

[Caller]

None.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need one? Yeah, I do for the next year.

[Caller]

I don't know if I'm able to get one though.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller]

Do you think a roommate would sign out on for 10 months?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure, yeah. Temporary something.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Have you been on any of these? You know, there's Facebook groups To connect people. There's apps, there's all kinds of ways. Or ask around to your friends. Someone's probably getting out of a lease and would love to cut their rent in half, just like you.

[Caller]

Yeah, I've been, I've been on a couple Facebook groups. I. I really haven't known what to do, so. I should put a little gas in the tank.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, you got to fire it up. You got, you signed up two months ago for, you know, mathematical suicide mission. Right. And so we've got to solve. We got to solve for that and get through the next 10 months because I don't think the apartment complex is going to let you out of a lease if you were in a single family and you had an individual landlord rather than a corporate landlord. That's a management company that sometimes, like I've got single family properties and sometimes somebody comes to us and needs to move, we say, okay, if we can find someone to take your spot, we'll let you out. And we put the house up for rent and we get a new tenant and we release them as an act of mercy.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. But usually I don't find that much with apartment complexes. They probably have a whole bunch of other vacancies they'd rather fill rather than fill yours.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's a, It's a really corporate.

Yeah.

Complex.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Have you read your lease agreement? I would be looking through that thing with a fine tooth comb to see what it actually says.

[Caller]

Yeah, I've been looking through it. They basically said if I break my lease, I'm subject to pay out the rest of the term. Yeah, I picked up a side hustle, though. I typically make about 4,000amonth, but I recently started doing some freelance work, so now I'm making about 5,000amonth. So it might be able to hold me over for the rest of the term. But I don't even know. Like, I don't know if I'm trying to think ahead because I don't want.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

What's your full time job?

[Caller]

I work in marketing. I'm a marketing manager.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

So what would it take to get your core income up in the meantime?

[Caller]

I just moved into this role. I just got a promotion, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, so your answer is side hustles and roommate to get through the 10 months and then for God's sakes, girl, get out of there. Next time the manager says don't, you know, sign up, you go, no, no, I'm leaving like my hair's on fire.

[Caller]

I know the reason I signed is I didn't Have. I didn't have a plan when you

[Dave Ramsey]

got till May to get you one.

[Caller]

Now I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

So don't be scared. Get a plan. Get a side hustle, get a roommate, make it through till next year. You're probably gonna limit the progress on your other financial goals, like getting out of debt and those other things. Cause you're strapped to this thing. You strapped yourself to this thing. So, yeah, you know, so I want you to be very. You've been passive in this relationship with this landlord to this point. I want you to be very proactive with this landlord in the future. And that is, I'll go ahead and give you notice that I'm leaving in May. And by the way, if you want to fill the apartment in the meantime, I would love you for it. Matter of fact, I'd probably pay you to do it. If you want to put somebody in here and let me out of the lease, that'd be awesome and amazing too. But I'll go ahead and let you know. Now I won't be here on renewal. No pressure tactics, no rent raises, no nothing. I am what's known as gone girl. I'm out of here. And go ahead and let them know. Go ahead and set yourself up and get yourself a plan so you're not homeless.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

And you need to market this spare room like a real estate agent. I mean, you need to make this feel like the best deal in a 20 mile radius to have this room at this price and really sell it with the copy and then, you know,

[Dave Ramsey]

interview the people like you were hiring an employee because you are. And don't hire a crazy one. You know, that's a good thing. So, I mean, you just got to use some proactive things in this process here and some urgency. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I think the dumbest things I've ever done, George, are when one of two things. And I've done so many dumb things. I mean, that's why I get to do this show, because I've like got a PhD in dumb. But I mean, usually it's around two things. One is I feel like for whatever reason that I'm trapped and I'm desperate.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

You're painted into a corner.

[Dave Ramsey]

And when I get desperate, instead of getting paint on my shoes, I stand there in the corner and watch it dry, you know, and I just stay there. I get. Or I lunge at something dumb. You know, desperate usually equals stupid for me and a lot of people. And the other one is if I'm asleep at the wheel, if I'm Too pest kind of coasting and Larrif's good and I'm not half paying attention. And the security alarm, here's one that happened to me one time. It automatically renewed for three years on the alarm on the house. And it was twice as expensive as it should have been. And I should have cut the stupid thing off and just with a pair of side cutters. I mean, I should have just run them off. But it had an auto renewal for three years which actually ended up costing them a lot of money because I advertised against them.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Oh boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Using that. So it didn't work out real well for them because they should have let me out of it. But you know, it was my fault because I had an auto three year renewal like her, like her lease thing and I was asleep at the wheel.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Pay attention.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Tiffany is in Spokane. Hi, Tiffany, how are you?

[Caller]

Good. Grateful to be on. Thanks for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Certainly. How can we help?

[Caller]

I am struggling through baby step number three. It feels like I'm no longer winning, if that makes sense. How do I keep going?

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt did you pay off?

[Caller]

$24,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long did that take?

[Caller]

Just over about eight months once I got serious.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, that's pretty cool. Okay, and how much are you trying to save in your baby step three emergency fund?

[Caller]

I am a single mom, so I'm trying to save four, five months or up to six months. Somewhere over three.

[Dave Ramsey]

So about how much money.

[Caller]

9,000. Like $9,200.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you want $9,000, but you did 24,000 in how many months?

[Caller]

Eight.

[Dave Ramsey]

Eight. Which means that if we use that math, you would have this done in four. What has changed?

[Caller]

It feels like. I think it's because paying other people, you get those wins, and I feel like paying myself. I know it sounds like a no,

[Dave Ramsey]

but mathematically, has anything changed?

[Caller]

No, absolutely not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, just. You just need to emotionally treat it like a debt then.

[Caller]

Yeah, I guess so, huh?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I've got to do. You know, you're right. I agree with you. Knocking off the smallest debt to the largest debt debt snowball gives you a feedback loop and it keeps you motivated and it keeps you moving and it's easier to do something. Pain avoidance is more motivating than pleasure seeking.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Those are the two things that motivate us. But pain avoidance is more motivating than pleasure seeking. Both things motivate humans. But this is. The saving side is pleasure seeking. Wealth building is pleasure seeking. And it's not as it doesn't activate the desperation centers of the brain, if there is such a thing.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Yeah, it's less gratifying. I see Baby step three as a financial purgatory. You're not quite building for the future. You're not quite paying. It doesn't have that like, water pistol through hell vibe. You're just sort of like stacking the acorns for the winter ahead. And so it doesn't feel like you're doing anything in the moment. But what you're really doing is you are buying yourself a never go into debt again insurance plan. And insurance is not sexy. It is meant to be boring. But think about that. You're building a fortress between you and a payment ever again. That's powerful. That gets me excited.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's. You're right. You're right. Yeah. When I finished Baby step two, I was like, oh, I can't wait. And then I'm like, it's kind of anti climactic because you're like, waiting for the fireworks to go off. And then it's like, now what? How do I keep going?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

No one's cheering you on when you add a little bit of money to that high yield savings account.

[Caller]

No, absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't get to give the finger to Citibank. You know, it's just. It's not as fun.

[Caller]

No, it really isn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I agree with you on all that. But now that we've intellectually said all that out loud, then what we do is we use our intellect to activate our will and say, all right, Will, we're gonna be emotional about this and get it behind us. This is a rip the band aid off thing. I'm gonna take a deep breath and dive to the bottom of the pool. Here we go. And I'm gonna knock this thing out right now, and I'm gonna treat it with the same intensity. And even though it doesn't naturally. The intensity doesn't naturally come. I'm going to manufacture it as an act of my intellect.

[Caller]

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Saying it out loud makes me feel.

[Dave Ramsey]

But let me reiterate. Enjoy. What George and I both said, what you're experiencing is very normal, but that doesn't mean you want to cave into it.

[Caller]

And that's why I wanted to ask, because I'm like, how do I stay motivated? I don't want to lose it. I don't want to lose this, you know, intensity. But when it. Every month that it's like, it's barely moving. It's barely moving.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm not a natural saver, so that saving that up for me was hard. But I kept saying, okay, I'm gonna turn an emergency into an inconvenience by having this, and I'm gonna have an insurance. Take all the time away between me and the stupid world out there that seems to have its claws out after me. Half the time.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

When you remember the chaos that has ensued when you had an emergency when you were broke, you just remove all the power from that. Once you have an emergency fund, you go. You don't get a say.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's amazing. When you're broke, your life looks like a country song. Everything's an emergency. Like every stinking thing that comes up. The dog gets a hangnail. It's an emergency. I mean, everything is an emergency, you know? But all of a sudden, when you got $10,000 and no debt and room in your budget, it takes a different thing to qualify under the emergency category.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

And you tend to actually have less emergencies because you're doing proper maintenance on stuff. You can cash flow a lot of these things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get a nicer car. Yeah, yeah.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

When you're broke, you're just desperate at every level. And so I feel you, Tiffany. It is a slog to get through.

[Dave Ramsey]

Michael's in Houston. Hey, Michael, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, So I am 20 years old. My girlfriend is 19, and we've been together for four years. And she talks to me every day about getting married. And I love that girl, I want to marry her, but I don't quite feel ready. Am I being unfair to her?

[Dave Ramsey]

You were 16 when this started, right?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

So this is like high school sweethearts?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, is. Does she have a job?

[Caller]

Yes, we actually work together. We're both insurance agents.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're a 19 and a 20 year old insurance agent?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long have you been doing that?

[Caller]

So right after I graduated, I started working this job and I got a few promotions. So now I'm a little higher up in the company and I'm doing. I'm going to community and college at the same time. So I've been doing this since I graduated in 2024.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller]

Right now I'm making 40,000 a year plus monthly commissions. And I also have room to grow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Monthly commissions?

[Caller]

I just got promoted so I only got one commission bonus so far and that was about 700 last month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Are you living at your parents house?

[Caller]

Yes, sir, I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is she living at her parents house?

[Caller]

No, she's living on her own actually.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does she make?

[Caller]

She makes 30,000. Okay.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt do you each have?

[Caller]

We both have no debt. Luckily we've been very blessed. And I've been listening to you. I made her read a Total Money Makeover.

[Dave Ramsey]

So then what does she say about all that stuff?

[Caller]

She says I don't like that guy. Okay, but she knows it's good advice. I listen to the show about every day. I love it all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but is she going to be a. It's not the guy that matters. I couldn't give a crap whether she likes me or not. But. But if she's not. If you guys are not aligned on how you're going to handle your money when you get married, then you're not ready to get married.

[Caller]

We.

We're aligned. We've had countless conversations.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm confused why she read the Total Money Makeover and hated it. If you're aligned.

[Caller]

Well, she liked the book, but I tried to get her to listen to the podcast, but I think she might think you're a little too stern. But that's exactly what I like to hear though.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Well, the tone versus the principles is what we're trying to get after here. Does she actually believe in the principles when you guys talk about money, is it. We want to continue living debt free. We want to build wealth of the future. We don't want debt to be a part of that. We Want to do it wisely without a lot of risk?

[Caller]

Yes, absolutely. Yes. We are 100% aligned on that fact.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

And where's the pressure coming from where she's talking about marriage every single day.

[Caller]

She

likes me a lot, I guess,

and I like her a lot, too. I think she's just ready to start our life together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you guys by chance involved in a good church?

[Caller]

Yes, sir, we are.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think the two of you sit down with some of your pastors and get some counsel there, okay? As to emotionally and spiritually, whether you all are ready to be married, I don't hear any reason not to be married other than you're very young. But I was just a little bit older than you when I got married, So I was 21 and I've been married 45 years.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Dave was a very mature 21 year old. You looked older than you do today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

There's some 30 year olds that aren't as mature as you at 21. Think about that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you're saying I was a nerd. I think I just called a nerd, by George, of all people.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I finally hurt his feelings, guys.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

I'm great. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I have a question around retirement. I'm 61 years old. I make 3744 monthly. I have my home is paid off, all my bills are paid off, and I kind of have extra money now. I'm putting money in my Roth. I have a $500,000 401k. I have 7,000 in an HSA, and I'm just building my Roth up right now. I only have 3,000 in there, but I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, the 3700 is. The 3700amonth is Social Security.

[Caller]

No, no, no, no. I'm working. I'm 61 years old.

I'm working.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You said you're 61. I heard that. Yeah. Okay.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay. So your questions, Your questions. What?

[Caller]

So I'm looking forward towards retirement, and I feel like I should have. I don't have a pension or anything, so I was thinking about investing in something that would. That I could make money at, and I was looking at an Airbnb situation. I just wanted your opinion on those.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Well, have you ever had dreams of running a tiny hotel?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Really?

[Caller]

I actually have.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

You love that idea of changing the sheets and dealing with all the issues and the damage and the wear and tear from the party. That excites you.

[Caller]

Well, yeah, it doesn't. I don't know how bad you're making it sound. Word. I didn't think that all through.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I'm just kind of. I'm playing it up a little bit. But Airbnb has been marketed on social media as this, like, get rich, quick hack, and you'll make 20 grand a month if you just do this. And the truth is, it's a lot of work. There's a lot of risk, There's a lot of vacancy and issues to deal with, and your money might be better off put into the stock market if you're trying to make, quote, passive income.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is not passive at all.

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're running a hotel.

[Caller]

Yeah, I know that. Yeah, I know. But I'm looking also for something to keep me busy in retirement. I'm not gonna travel the world. I don't do that stuff. So I guess I'm a little worried about being bored.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I think I. Well, you. You do what you want to do. I. In real estate, there is a spectrum from a hassle spectrum, and along the hassle spectrum goes the income. And so the higher the hassle and the more garbage and trash and weird people you have to put up with, the higher your rent. Okay, so let me give you an example. Some of the best rate of return on real estate is owning a trailer park. Fabulous return on investment, cash on cash. But you're running a trailer park, right?

[Caller]

Hello.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I Owned a bunch of lower income property in my 20s. Some of it was weekly rentals, about as close to Airbnb as you could have in those days. But it wasn't really they move in and out weekly. It's they paid weekly because they were irresponsible. So they didn't snort at or drink their paycheck over the weekend. They gave it to me on Friday, and that way they kept a place to live. And the weekly rentals were high hassle. Friday afternoon, lining up at the door of the office, paying us their weekly rentals. And we made seriously good money because we're renting it for 25, 30% more than we'd rented it for by the month. But we had a lot of hassle because of the type of clientele we were dealing with there. I mean, we're having to keep people from running prostitution and drug r out of our houses. You know, it was a constant pain in the butt. Now, that's on one end of the spectrum. All the way over. On the other end of the spectrum, you could buy a warehouse that's called a triple net lease, where they pay the utilities, they pay the taxes, they pay the insurance, and they send you a rent check that's much smaller. But you will never do anything except look up in the mailbox and see a rent check. They do the maintenance. You don't do anything. But you don't make nearly as much return on investment on a warehouse as you do on an Airbnb. But the Airbnb will work your butt off. You turn yourself into a maid changing sheets after a bachelorette party. No, thank you.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

The other part I'm seeing here, I'll

[Dave Ramsey]

find a different side hustle.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I don't see the money to even buy the Airbnb in these numbers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Where are you going to pay? How are you going to pay for it?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, no, I'm not doing this right away. It's just, I'm trying to think of,

[Dave Ramsey]

you know, okay, I would buy some rental real estate if you want to buy some real estate and pay cash for it later on when you're ready to do this. If you did it six or seven years from now, maybe you got a million dollars. Your half million has turned into at that point. And maybe you put three or four hundred thousand into a rental property and that's part of your deal. And if you want something to do, just go open a small business, have a side hustle that you can solve

[George Kamel Ramsey]

the border without all of this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I personally, I'm just not a fan of the Airbnb. I think it's a. I think it's over, hyped, overdone.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Well, the numbers are now showing there's an oversupply and not enough demand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, in some areas. In some areas, there's been legislation come out to stop them from happening because your neighbors don't allow you to run a hotel in the middle of a neighborhood because it's not zoned for it. And they're stopping it in some areas. So people that bought a house got a big old payment on it because TikTok told them to be an Airbnb landlord. Then now they're screwed. So now I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan. If somebody wants to do that, and that's what, you know, you ought to do 10 of them and you ought to just hire four maids that work for you and three repairman. And you plan on being over there every week and plan on have the cops on speed dial and then you've got your Airbnb ready, set, go. And that's what you're dealing with.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

TikTok doesn't tell you that part.

[Dave Ramsey]

Neighbors are going to call you. They're going to go, hey, the freaking music over there. Hello, it's cranked up again. This is not a rock venue, it's a house. I mean, this is the kind of stuff you're going to deal with all the freaking time. Not a fan. Not a fan.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I've seen a lot of these videos, Dave, and I know exactly where Michelle got this from, because people send me these videos saying, what do you think about this? And it's some couple going, we retired and we don't work anymore. We just own 17 Airbnbs. And here's our numbers. We make a million dollars a month and you can buy our course and we'll show you how to do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's how you're making a million dollars a month. Why are you selling a course?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

That's the big question mark.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Everyone.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Well, at least I have. Not everyone.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the course is only 3,000. So I'm going to sidestep my million dollar income and go over here and make sure for $3,000, I'm distracted.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

This is a warning.

[Dave Ramsey]

Untrue, untrue, untrue. Yeah. Lied. You just lied.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

They're selling you a dream, a nightmare. That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Keep you up nights. Michael's in Miami. Michael, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. I have an interest in dilemma. I'm trying to get some advice. Interesting thing is I work for a credit union, so I'm kind of thinking about what I would do. I recently moved from Jacksonville, Florida to Miami. I sold a house. It was free and clear. I didn't have any debts and I bought a condominium here in Miami. Obviously the lifestyle is a little bit higher. And the condo that bought was $600,000. I have a mortgage right now of 154,000 because that's what was left after I sold my house in Jacksonville. And I'm contemplating whether or not I should pay the mortgage off with my investments, even though I would be paying and capital gains on those 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

I do it by nightfall.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've never had anybody, and there's people that hate Dave Ramsey for almost everything. I mean, there's entire websites devoted to hating me. No one has ever complained that paid off their mortgage because I told them to. I've never had anybody call me back and go, oh, you're just so dumb, Dave. I've never heard that. They gripe at me about everything else. The Airbnb call we just got, we'll get, we'll get hate mail for days from that, from some of you people that are all twisted up about that. Okay, that's fine. Get in line. But, but no one ever bothers us when we tell people to pay off their mortgage. Man, I've never got anybody said, don't do it, Dave. Dave's crazy. He doesn't know what he's talking about. I paid off my mortgage and then I went broke.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It can't happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

No one ever.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Now the key is it sounds like he has non retirement investments and he can sell those. Now, hopefully it's long term capital gains, which is going to be much lower than the short term capital gains taxed at ordinary income. So if that's the case, do the math and you'll go, okay, it's 15% of whatever the gain is. I'll pay 20 grand and never have a mortgage again.

[Dave Ramsey]

The other thing is. The other thing is this, Michael. The fact that you asked this question on a nationally broadcast podcast with, with 30 million people listening in tells me you desperately want to pay it off and you just wanted somebody to tell you to do it. Do it.

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[Dave Ramsey]

So two years ago, for the first time, George and I did an event called Investing Essentials. And we unpacked my personal playbook on investing. And that includes why I don't invest in some things, for instance, Airbnb like we just talked about, but other real estate that I do invest in and why and how I choose that and other things like mutual funds and why I do those and why I don't do other things. And we get into the detail and George is really good at unpacking some of that stuff as well. We're gonna do our third one ever. We've only done it a couple times. September 1st and 2nd. It's a virtual two night event. Investing Essentials. It's the only place you get this information. We're gonna go through the basics on investing for just a minute and then we're gonna go deep dive into this stuff. Tickets are $199. This year we're gonna unpack some stuff we were just working on earlier today. We're gonna unpack some stuff on estate planning and some stuff on legacy and a few things like that that you guys have requested. Because one of the things we always talk about around here and people love to use that as their motivation is why am I doing all these things? So that I can change my family tree.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

And what does that mean? We're going to get into the nitty gritty nerdy details. If you've ever wanted Dave with the formulas and the spreadsheets, this is your chance to really nerd out and learn some things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nerd Dave. There we go. Ramseysolutions.com Events Tickets are $190 $99. September 1st and 2nd, investing essentials. Or you can click the Link in the show notes if you're on podcast or YouTube. Lloyd's in Waco, Texas. Hi, Lloyd, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. I'm doing very well. Thank you for taking my call. I hope you're doing well as also.

[Dave Ramsey]

We are, sir.

[Caller]

Good, good. I've never a little bit nervous. I've never put our story out like this for anyone. But my wife was diagnosed with cancer, a rare cancer, three years ago, and we had a thriving business. I'm a lifetime entrepreneur. I've done lots of things. But we ended up about six months after we found out about her cancer. We were able to sell our business and make some really good financial deposits so that I could be away from that and spend time with her because we weren't sure at that time what we had left. I put the money into CDs, I put some in Edward Jones account, and here we are three years down the road, which we're so thankful to be there. But our living expenses were not making the money from the investments to cover our living expenses yearly. And so I'm just wondering, is there a better place that I need to put money or. I don't really want to go back to work and start a new business. I want to be available for her. And, you know, I'm just in this cycle of anxiety about running out of money and fear and then heartbreak and sadness and just all of the above is just kind of following me in. And I just started listening to your show.

[Dave Ramsey]

He said she was diagnosed three years ago. So how's she doing now?

[Caller]

She's doing really well. We've been through three lines of chemotherapy and fixing to start a fourth. Just kind of general chemotherapy. It's non specific. You know, she's had some progression, which, you know, she'll have progression, and then we'll have the fears that come with that. And then, you know, we'll go and everything will be stable. And so that's a win for us. You know, doctors give prognosis, but that's according to them. You know, we're. We're believers in Jesus and he can intervene at any moment. And so, you know, that's what we pray for. But the truth is, though, that as the interest rates drop, then, you know, so does the money it's accruing and then pulling money out, there's less money there to, you know, to have interest on. And so anyway, just other things.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the size of the nest egg that's left?

[Caller]

Well, in Edward Jones we have right at a million dollars, I have I had 100,000 in E trade with core weave, and that's dropped to about 65. So one of my questions is, do I sell that and put that somewhere else? I have. Have half million in a CD at a bank drawing 3.4. I want to do something.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is your monthly need?

[Caller]

Our health insurance alone is about 50,000, and I would say our monthly needs, absolute needs, are about 120 to 140. You know, they vary depending on if we're.

[Dave Ramsey]

You mean $120,000 a year?

[Caller]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you need $10,000. Okay, so we need. We need this million five to produce $10,000 a month. And it's not

[Caller]

correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, if it was sitting in no debt.

[Caller]

We own our home, we own our land. We. And then in addition to that, I have a $2 million investment in the company that I sold. I reinvested with it as a larger company.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does it. Does it create. Does it create Reven Monthly?

[Caller]

It does not know. It does not. It will only pay off when that company sells and I get the.

[Dave Ramsey]

There. And there's no buyout provision.

[Caller]

No early.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're. You're stuck. Tell them. They do what they do.

[Caller]

Yes, but I do think it's a good investment.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wasn't questioning that. I'm just trying to learn. Learn your terms. Okay.

[Caller]

Yes. No, no, there's no buyout.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

So million five is what you have available to you that's not in retirement account.

[Caller]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not retirement six, actually. Yeah. With the 100,000. No one did the 100,000 down to 65, but yeah. All right. So if it made 10%, you'd be fine?

[Caller]

I think so, yes. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the s and P500 averages more than that. And for the past five years, it's average way more than that. This year. It's up 10% year to date.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your investments are your port.

[Caller]

Your.

[Dave Ramsey]

That portion of your portfolio is underperforming what you need it to.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Do you know what you're invested in?

[Caller]

Well, I don't have it all in one. I do not. I have. I have a copy of what it's invested in, but I. Yeah, but you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

As a group, this stuff is underperforming the S and P, which it should because you got 500 in a CD. So it should be.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So if I'm you, I'm moving it more to market rates of return and conservative mutual fund investing that has long track records that's going to get the portfolio performing at a rate that doesn't burn you up, I think it'll run in perpetuation.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the problem is you've got, you know, you got at least a third of it. Well, I mean, that E Trade account sucks beyond belief. That's horrible. But nothing should be down 35% in this world that we're in right now. So that was just a horrible thing there. But that's aside, it's a small amount, but I mean, if that 565,000 plus that million at Edward Jones goes to work to the tune of 10% a year, that's $160,000 a year.

[Caller]

Correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so what I want you to do is probably get a second set of eyes on this other than who you've had, and go to Ramsey Solutions and click on SmartVestor for SmartVestor Pro in your area and sit down with them with the heart of a teacher and say, I need this million 5 to conservatively without taking huge amounts of risk to produce enough to feed our family while we go through this cancer battle. And I think you can. I think you can. And then they need to teach you, you know, what risk you are taking, what marketplace risk is there. But if the marketplace average is 11% and you pull off 10, it will run, hypothetically, forever. Right. But you don't need it to run forever because either we're going to have some healing this side of heaven or some healing in heaven and then there's going to be a resumption of your life. At that point, you're not going to be fighting the same thing 15 years from today. Would you agree with that?

[Caller]

I do agree with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Unfortunately.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. One way or the other. Now it could be. Fortunately, she could get healed like you said, Jesus could touch.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And.

[Caller]

And I hope he does.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I do, too. I do too. Or he could touch her and let her sit beside him and wait on you. You know, those are, those are the two options. That's one of those two things is going to happen. Not a 15 year slog.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

You're in better shape than you think. You just need a clear plan of what we're going to do with this money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I'm sorry you guys are going through this. What a horrible thing. And to have to sit and do math and figure out stuff in the middle of all this emotion. Wow. Yeah. Sit down with a SmartVestor Pro at Ramsey Solutions. They'll help you put together a portfolio that'll work on this. This one isn't working.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

As a dad of young kids, I'm starting to think a lot more about the world they're growing up in and how I'll help them make sense of it as get older. And that's why I like World Watch, a video news service for pre teens and teens. Because one thing I know for sure, if you don't teach your kids how to understand the world, somebody else will. And these days that could be TikTok, YouTube, Instagram influencers or whoever happens to show up in their social media feed. World Watch's 10 minute videos help young people understand what's happening in the world through a Christian worldview without all the outrage, negativity and noise that is everywhere these days. The reporting is factual, engaging and designed specifically for preteens and teens. And World Watch creates opportunities for something every family needs more of, meaningful conversations. Instead of just reacting to headlines, kids learn how to think about what's happening in the world. And parents get a chance to keep those conversations going at home. Because when my kids are old enough, I want them informed, not overwhelmed. And right now you can get a 30 day free trial. Just go to Worldwatch News or use promo code Ramsey to get started. That's Worldwatch News Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. In the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. George Camel Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is. My co host Amy is in Detroit. Hi Amy, how are you?

[Caller]

Good, how are you? Thanks for taking my phone call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So my overall question is mostly to do with my son. He's going to be a senior, going off to college here in another year. We, my husband and I, I know we can financially cover his tuition, room and board for college but I fear that one, it's not teaching him financial responsibility because obviously the money comes from somewhere. But on the flip side of it, am I putting him in a massive hole when I could easily cover it? There's also a little caveat to it where I do have a bulk amount of money set aside but was given to me by a deceased parent. And so I'm a little tied to that money unfortunately. So I'm kind of, I go back and forth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well the last part of it is up to you to figure out. There's not a Ramsey answer to you being tied emotionally to an inheritance situation. That's something you need to work through and you obviously are. We paid for our three kids, college and room and board. All three of them however, were financially responsible and knew how to work and were not entitled Brats. They did know the value of a dollar before they went to college.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If the guy's a senior and by now he hasn't learned it, not paying for his college is not going to fix him. It's too late.

[Caller]

Well, he. He has a job, and we. I mean, we talk. Talk to him a lot about being financially responsible. We give him allowance, and it's not that much. And when his money ran out, I didn't just put money into his account and say, you know what I mean, have at it. He had to get a job, which he now has a job and all that good Stu stuff. It's just a very much different upbringing than what I had to deal with.

[Dave Ramsey]

And my parents didn't have any money, so I didn't have a choice.

[Caller]

Yeah, right, Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

It wasn't like there was an option here. So with our three, we had them at the stage they were juniors and seniors operating their own checking accounts and doing a monthly budget that they lived on, money that we gave them for normal teenage operations because we're still their parents, and money that they earned. And we looked over their shoulder at that budget and helped them learn the skill of living on a set plan their junior and senior year of high school so that when they went to college, we said, all right, we're writing a check for the tuition, we're writing a check for the dorm. In addition to that, you're going to get this small amount for campus living and that you better have a budget for that and you better maintain that. And if you want a $200 set of shoes, this isn't going to cover it. So you're going to need to get a job while you're in college. And all three of mine at different times did do different things, either in the summers and. Or while they were there and worked jobs while they were in college. So. Yeah, but what that was, was the fulfillment of something we'd already working on, rather than a lesson that they were learning there. They were living out the lessons that they'd already learned.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so it didn't ruin them. None of all three of them are productive adults today.

[Caller]

I think I know that he will be fine. And he's one of three. So I've got two. And that's the other thought. I've got two more kids behind him. And the money only will go so far. Correct.

So then we need to choose that.

[Dave Ramsey]

We need to budget that out.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And just say, okay, you're going to this school. I'm paying for it. So you're going to this school. We don't need to go on a college tour because we're not going there.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

You don't need to traverse the country. So have you guys had those conversations thus far?

[Caller]

He's very smart, kids. There's a very great possibility that he will get some sort of scholarship.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great, that's even better.

[Caller]

Yeah. And you know, my husband and I are still, we max out our 401ks. We have quite a bit in our 401k. So I know, I feel retirement wise, we're fine. It's just this cash that, you know, is kind of set aside. Is it the smartest thing to do?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

How much is set aside for college specifically?

[Caller]

Just like right now? 300,000.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

That's plenty.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, not for three kids.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It's not for him to get through. So if he goes to a state school, let's say you might burn a third of that. Yes, that's reasonable.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

And then the next kid, hey, you're gonna go to a state school and we're gonna pay for it. And you gotta finish in four years.

[Dave Ramsey]

You get scholarships and work while you're there. You know, nothing wrong with all of that. That's all a good plan. But the biggest problem we run into with college students is, or with parents in this situation, Amy, is they don't ask the question that you're asking and they don't use any common sense. And they go, well, my kid told me he was going that we can't afford. And I'm like, well, see, there's your problem. My kid didn't tell me stuff, I told my kids stuff. And get that backwards, right, this is what you're going to do because I'm paying for it. And if you don't want me to pay for it, then you can do a lot of stupid stuff if you want to. But if I'm paying for it, this is what we're going to do. Because this is what's good for you and it's what's in the family budget and what makes good common sense and so on. You're going to study something that is actually usable. You don't need it to get a degree in left handed puppetry or German polka history. You'll end up being a barista. No. With a four year degree. No thank you. That's not the plan. And so no reason to go to college if you're going to do that. We can save all that money and just buy a lot of coffee for you. You know what I mean?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

If you're taking the family on a vacation. You guys get to decide. The kids don't get to say, well, I want to go to Paris, or I guess we're going to pay to go to Paris. You decide as the parent, if you're paying for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a good point.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

So there's a lot of things in life and you give the kid carte blanche. Of course they're going to go. Well, I want to go to this school across the country.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's where my girlfriend is going to. This is how they picked a college where my girlfriend is going. And three weeks after they're there, she breaks up with him.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Famous last words.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, because you followed your girlfriend to freaking Minnesota. Give me a break.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Then she realized, oh, I got a lot of options. He wasn't the only girl at the dance. That's personal, Dave. It's personal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did that come up, George?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I think so.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

That happened to me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dancing's a problem.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It's a rite of passage. Not the dancing part, not the dancing. Broken up with. After you chase a girl across the country.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you really do that?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I think I accidentally. I moved south.

[Caller]

South.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

And I had a girlfriend who was from the south, so I think that

[Dave Ramsey]

you told people God told you to do it, though, right?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Oh, gosh. That was my. My least favorite words. After a summer camp, she brought me

[Dave Ramsey]

to go to Tennessee because she's. That's where she is.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

And I go, why didn't he tell me? Why was I not a part of this conversation? I feel like I should get a vote too. Oh, man, that's brutal. It's got dark real quick.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Oh, it did.

[Dave Ramsey]

It went downhill fast, George.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

But. But back to the caller's question. It's not virtuous to let your kid go into student debt because you don't want them to become entitled. No, they're not gonna have a better

[Dave Ramsey]

work ethic just because they want to get. You'll get back backwards there. That's gonna take you places you don't wanna go.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

You are giving them the right kind of advantage if you do that. And they already have the character to carry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but just involve them and go, hey, all of us have limits. We're not in Congress, so we have limits.

[Caller]

Sam,

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[Dave Ramsey]

Since we started this show 35 years ago and started teaching classes and doing live events and writing books, our goal has simply been this. To set you free from debt so that you can build wealth, so that you can be outrageously generous, retire with dignity, and change your family tree. So what is the shortest distance between where you are and wealth? What's the fastest methodology? Is it crypto? Nope. Is it day trading? Eh, no. Is it whole life life insurance? Eh, no. And you know this. If you've listened to the Show More than 13 seconds, we've already would have covered. Is it leasing a car? No. So what are the things that cause you to build wealth? Well, getting out of debt, being on a plan, being in agreement with your spouse, getting an emergency fund in place and systematically Investing in your 401k and getting your home paid off. And those are the baby steps that we walk you through to get there in detail. Total money makeover book, over 20 million copies now outlines exactly how to do that. And for the last several years, every dollar, our budgeting app, has been holding your hand and helping you track the progress and follow the fastest, most efficient method to go from where you are to wealthy. Called the Ramsey Plan, it's personalized recommendations, coaching for your situation and tracks your progress. So check out everydollar. You can download it for free in the App store or Google Play. Dylan is in Springfield, Illinois. Hey Dylan, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey Dave. My question is how do I have a intelligent conversation with my mom about credit and credit cards? He's a realtor. She has a 850 credit score and she has for a long time and he wants me to get a Credit card as soon as I turn 18. And my thing is I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to have the temptation in my pocket. So how can I have that credit, how can I that talk with her about credit cards? Also, I own two businesses and I do not want it to see into them. Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

There's not an intelligent conversation you can have with her. She has made up her mind.

[Caller]

I agree 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so the best thing to do is just not have a conversation about it. And when you're 18, just don't do it.

[Caller]

Okay, Yes, I agree with you, but

[Dave Ramsey]

you don't have to convince her her in order to not do it.

[Caller]

Yeah, then I'm gonna have to listen to it for the rest of my life.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you don't. You don't just. I've got relatives that I love dearly that vote wrong.

[Caller]

That's fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm not going to have a discussion with them about it because they vote wrong and they voted wrong their whole life. They have a screwed up political view and they think I do. And so in the name of love, we don't discuss it.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not going to change. I'm not going to change because I'm right.

[Caller]

How would I, I want to buy a house. I have a good down payment saved up. How would I without her help? Because obviously she wants me to go through the FICO score. How would I get a mortgage then? And that's not a balloon loan because I do not want to, you know, I do not want a balloon loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

George, you've done it twice.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Yeah, it's called man annual underwriting and fun fact. Before the 90s, this is how all loans were underwritten. They didn't have the FICO score to make it more automated. So all you need is 12 months of on time rental payments. So you can do that while living at home, you can do that while living on your own. You're going to need some alternative trade lines like your utility bills. So cell phone bills, insurance bills, on time, regular payments, that's what they're looking for. And then a strong down payment payment. And you're going to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Most people, steady job.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Yeah. They want to show income, your tax return.

[Dave Ramsey]

Self employed. And you own two businesses. You're going to have to have two years tax returns.

[Caller]

Two years. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which you have to have with a high FICO score too, by the way. Self employed.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

So that doesn't affect it. But it's going to take a real

[Dave Ramsey]

person, you're not even 18, so you don't even need to worry about any of this. Right.

[Caller]

Well, we always have this conversation, so it's always been like a back, a back and forth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Quit having the conversation.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It sounds like you're gonna move out as soon as you turn 18.

[Caller]

I'm gonna try to. He doesn't want me to, but I want to. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You know. So you have come to the correct conclusion. She has not. And that's okay. It's all right. I got lots of friends that I, you know, one of my friends leased a car the other day and brought it over, show it to me. How stupid is that? You know? But what did I do? You think I'm gonna trash the guy?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

You went, cool car, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want a cool car, man. It's a nice car. And I go back in the house and I go, what in the world is he thinking?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

But anyway, he's not looking for advice. He's looking for some.

[Dave Ramsey]

He was looking for effort to go, cool car. Yeah, I'm not going to get into how he. I mean, he did not ask. I quit asking questions. I quit answering questions. People don't ask. That's.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

That's wisdom.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, can you imagine? You know, you didn't ask me about who you're supposed to vote for. I won't tell you. It's okay. You know, you don't ask me about this. I'm not going to tell you. And that's the problem. She's answering questions that weren't asked.

[Caller]

And.

[Dave Ramsey]

But, yeah.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

So you've decided your value, she decided hers. No one's going to change.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let's go back, though, for the sake of everybody else listening, not for Dylan. For the sake of everybody else listening. The FICO score is an algorithm that mathematically is made up of five components. All five components, how you interact with debt. The type of debt you have is one. How much debt you have is another. Whether you pay your debt on time is another. Whether you have too much debt is another. And those are the components that derive your FICO score. So 100% of the FICO score is how you interact with debt. It's an I Love debt score, mathematically. And if you love debt and you continually want to go into debt, you need to build your FICO score. If you're not going to go into debt and you don't want to give the bank all your money, instead you'd rather invest it and keep it, then you don't need a FICO score. It is not A measure of your financial wisdom. It is not a. A measure of the growing net worth. It is not a measure of your income. My grandpa could die and leave me $2 million today. My FICO score does not change one dime. Unless I use that to pay off some debt, it doesn't change a dime. Doesn't change one point. An 850 FICO score simply means you borrowed money like you're freaking in Congress and you pay it back. And you love the bank so much, you just play kissy face all the time with bank of America, so you got an 850 FICO score. So when somebody says, Dave, I have an 850 FICO score, I always look at and go, I'm so sorry. That cost you at least 100 grand in interest to get there because you've been paying a lot of interest all these years. No, I just paid my payments on time. What do you think the interest is, Doober? It's built into your payments, stupid.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It's the wrong game to play. It has nothing to do with your net worth, nothing to do with your income, where you're going financially.

[Dave Ramsey]

It just says a credit card so you can grow your FICO score. Why? So I can borrow money on my car so I can grow my FICO score. Why? So I can borrow money from my student loans. Why? So I can grow my FICO score. So I get a house. Why? So I can go into debt. Go into debt, Go into debt. It's like a dog chasing its tail. And all of America has bought off on this freaking lie that the banking system has sold you. And so now you've got Samuel L. Jackson, an actor, saying, what's in your wallet? Money. Because I'm not messing with you people.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It's amazing how that works.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's amazing. So you know what's in my wallet ain't got anything to do with any of that crap. Crap. So Dylan is actually right. Oh, and by the way, George explained, you can buy a house on a mortgage without a FICO score and everything else you should be paying cash for, and you should pay off your house as fast as you can. And if you can pay cash for your house, you should pay cash.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

And then you really have no reason to ever care again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which is kind of where I've been for, like, 30 years.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It makes me happy that you could buy the apartment complex, but they wouldn't let you rent there. That's pretty hilarious.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that is funny. Oh, Dave, we. Your FICO score, Dave, you don't have a FICO Score. You can't rent here. I know I can write a check and buy the whole thing, but I can't rent there because some idiot that makes $26,000 a year has a boss in Atlanta. You know what?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I wouldn't pay to watch that interaction.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just, I mean, this is the thing. This is how dumb this system is.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It's broken.

[Dave Ramsey]

It has nothing to do with your wealth. It has everything to do with how much money you have given to a bank, a car company, a credit card company, a student loan. This is where your FICO score comes from. It's kind of a measure of how debt dumb you've been. It's your debt dumb score.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Rename it.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

Way better than I deserve. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just the same. What's up?

[Caller]

Nice. I am 55 years old. I currently pay about 40% of my take home in rent. And I was wondering if it makes sense to get a mortgage. That would be maybe $100 more than I'm spending right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt do you have?

[Caller]

Zero, thanks to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. I didn't pay it. You did. Congratulations. How much you got saved for your down payment?

[Caller]

Only 10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. What do you make?

[Caller]

I make between 62 and 67,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your career trajectory look like? Is it going to increase your income?

[Caller]

It can. I almost died a few years ago. Chose to go back to waiting tables because I love it. I'm actually making more money than I was managing restaurants, but I can always go back into management and I can also pick up extra shifts if I need some extra money.

Okay. All Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the reason we tell folks to have a house payment or a mortgage or a rent down around 25% of your take home pay, not of your income, but of your take home pay after taxes only, not in, not 401k and not health insurance, but just after taxes is because we want you to have the wiggle room in your budget. Budget to be able to build wealth and invest and to be able to save up and buy the next car and to be able to save up for Christmas. But if you pinch your budget with a house payment, that's a high percentage of your take home pay, people call that house poor. Economists say you squeezed out your disposable income means the same thing. You just pinched yourself and you left no room. And then if something comes up, then people feel forced into debt to cover the next thing that comes up. And that's what we want to avoid.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Yeah, renting right now, I know it feels like you're throwing away money, but you're buying yourself some patience and reducing your risk because home ownership has its own headaches, plus all the fees if you need to buy or sell. And so I don't want you to get into this thing thinking that you're trading one bad thing for a great thing. Homeownership is great, but 43% of your take home pay for the foreseeable future is going to put you in.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's going to put you in.

[Caller]

Now I've been doing that for the last five years because I'm in the Chicago suburbs and rent is about 40% of my take home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I'm just telling you mathematically, mathematically, you know. And you have $10,000.

[Caller]

Well, I have for a down payment and I have 10 fully funded emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how much is in the emergency?

[Caller]

10,500.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so in four years you came up with $20,000. So yes, that's, that's good. That's better than most people. But if you had had a more reasonable percentage of your income going, it's what we're pointing out. And you can't use the argument, I live in Chicago. Math doesn't count here. Math counts in Chicago. It has to Math wherever you are, whether you're in Manhattan or you're in Silicon Valley or you're in Chicago, or whether you're in Woodbury, Tennessee, out in the middle of nowhere, you know, the math still has to math, you still got to figure out something to do there. And so you need to pull some different levers.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

One might be, I can't live in Chicago, I'm going to move to the suburbs. If homeownership is a real dream or I'm going to make more money. Those are all things you can do. But I wouldn't go about this plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would not sign you up for 43%. I agree with you, George. I like where you are, and I think you're doing a good job overall, especially considering how you pinched yourself here. I mean, you got this thing pretty tight. And so I don't want to sign up the permanent version of that without seeing some kind of income increasing or price decreasing. So I'm going to be shopping and thinking about what's my commute going to look like if I go out to an area that I can actually afford, and there are areas in the Chicago land area area that, that people can afford may not be where you want to be. I don't blame you for that, but that's. That, that's gotta watch out.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Those Illinois property taxes will get you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, for sure. Megan's in Philadelphia. Hi, Megan. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I'm wondering if I should sell my car to, to eliminate my, my car debt. I am currently $36,000 in debt. About 10,500 of that is my car debt. 9,000 is my student loan, or I'm sorry, is my credit card, and the rest is student loans. But I'm wondering. I drive a 2018 Jeep Wrangler and I have 93,000 miles on it. I only bought it four years ago, and I think I can get about 18 to 19 thousand dollars for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you mean?

[Caller]

And what was that?

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller]

I. I am an on the road salesperson, so I drive a lot, but I make, I should make about $98,000 this year.

Okay. All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you really tightened down your budget and lived on beans and rice and rice and beans and quit going out to eat and quit. And quit doing any vacationing and you just worked all the time, how fast could you clear up your 36,000, making 90 by yourself, yourself.

[Caller]

So I, I, over the last few months, I've, I've paid a little over 10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yay.

[Caller]

My credit cards. Yeah.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Like three grand a month. Could you do that consistently?

[Caller]

Yeah, I've been exactly. That's, I've been about two to 3,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that'd be one year.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

So less than 12 months. You'll be debt free if you keep up this pace. Which means if you like the car. Keep the car.

[Caller]

Okay. Because I do really like the car.

But I'm like, I'm.

I've been listening to you guys lately. I'm really focused on just getting rid of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Our rule of thumb is two things. One is if your car, all of your cars, anything you own, vehicle with wheels and, or motors or batteries, any of that stuff goes down in value, if the total of all that stuff you own that's going down in value is more than half your annual income, you have too much tied up in things that are going down. You don't have that. The second rule of thumb we use is, can you be debt free without selling the car inside of two years? You can. You can.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so. And then the third thing is, do you like the car? If you want to sell the car anyway because the thing sucks, that's fine. That's a different discussion. But what you're saying is, do I need to do this to be financially wise? No, you don't. You keep the car and you pay it all off in a year.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay. Because that's what I was thinking. I could kick start the. Just getting into my student loans and paying them off because I would like to buy a home. So

[Dave Ramsey]

it will kick start it, but it will only kick start it by about four or five months.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

You'll free up that payment and you

[Dave Ramsey]

got to have something to drive because you drive for a living.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got another problem then, you know, so the kickstart's minimal. It's, you know, would I trade four months for this? No. I think you're doing such a good job already. 3,000amonth knocking off debt. Way to go. I would just stay on that track and, you know, just go as fast and as hard as you can go and where your friend, your broke friends are making fun of you like you joined a cult.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

What's your car payment?

[Caller]

It's $490 a month.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Well, here's a challenge. If you can figure out how to spend less and make more to the tune of 490, you've essentially freed up that car payment. So that's an interesting scenario. Challenge yourself to. To go. What can I cut out of my budget to shave off a car payment?

[Dave Ramsey]

Costco samples for dinner.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I've seen that video. That was a pretty hilarious one.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's funny.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It's the. The affordability crisis. This guy's going to Costco to eat from the free samples.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty funny stuff.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Might as well get the $50 hot dog at that Point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Just might as well just lean into it while you can there.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

But you know what I love about this is her willingness to sacrifice was everything that tells me she's actually going to win.

[Dave Ramsey]

Five years from today, she's going to be in a completely different place financially and emotionally than she's ever been in her life because of the trajectory she set herself on. Three months before she called us.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then all we did was say, keep going. Go girl, go girl.

[Caller]

We got.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It's pretty rare we tell you not to sell the car. Usually someone's fighting on us of why they won't sell it. And that tells me it's going to be a. It's going to be a tough ride to get them out of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

No pinted.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I'm willing to. To win. I'm going to pay a price to win, including selling this car that I love. Driving a beater across the country just to get out of debt a little bit faster. Yeah, that's the energy you need.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the, that's the mentality. Instead of like, I'm going to keep this and I'm going to keep this.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I need something reliable and nice.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want to keep that. It's got he have something safe. It's the heated seats killing me.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

And ventilated now even the steering wheel now is heated.

[Dave Ramsey]

I grew up where the only airbag was your mother in law.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Oh, gosh.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by why Refi? If you miss your private student loan payments, it can get your budget stuck in neutral. Y Refi helps borrowers explore fixed rate refinancing and payments based on what you can afford so you can start moving forward again. No neutral forward. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states Today's question comes

[George Kamel Ramsey]

from David in Missouri. Together my wife and I earn 85,000 a year and we have been using the debt snowball to pay off debt. The only debts we have left are $35,000 on two cars and 85,000 on our mortgage. Would getting a $40,000 extension on our home loan to pay off both vehicles be a good idea? We would then put every extra dollar we have toward the principal balance. Is there something I'm overlooking or does this make sense financially? Well, you're just moving the debt around so it's going to increase your loan payment to the tune of that $40,000 balance. So no, I would not do this. It feels like you did something, but you just played a little shell game.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's the same question of would I borrow on a home equity loan to pay off my cars? Well, you didn't pay them off. You moved your cars onto the home.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It's like getting a HELOC to pay off your car payments. Well, now you got a HELOC payment to deal with with variable rates.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's what's interesting. Interesting? The Bible says out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So if you sometimes if I listen to my own words, they reveal to me how stupid I'm being. Because my words are coming out of my heart, not my brain. And I go, wait a minute. So listen to this. I'm going to pay off my cars by not paying my house. That's not paying off your cars. You're lying to yourself. You're just going to moving the debt. I'm going to pay off my debt by getting a home equity loan. No you're not. You're lying to yourself. You're going to move your debt from your credit cards to your home equity loan, which means you went and bought a stake at the resident on a credit card and now you refinanced it into your home so you're going to finance your stake over 30 years. Talk about refinancing a depreciating asset that's long gone. David is with us in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, David. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So recently divorced in the last three years, just kind of financially starting at zero again. And between child support and credit card debt that I took on in it, I am. I cannot find any motivation to save money. It feels kind of fruitless, whether it's an expense that comes up or spending it to take my kids on a modest vacation. And I'm just trying to figure out where to start.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long were you married?

[Caller]

That I had before for this. 10 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why were you divorced?

[Caller]

She left. She. We both raised our kids in the Christian faith, and about two years before she left, she kind of walked away from the faith and ultimately thought she could find a better life at the end of the day.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the divorce was final three years ago, right?

[Caller]

A year and a half. Exactly. Three years ago was when she left. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can I tell you what I just heard? You tell me.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is still so fresh for you. Your heart was destroyed by this. She took it out of your chest and walked all over it. Not only did she abandon, abandoned the faith that you and her had agreed to, but she abandoned the commitment that she had made to you. And you are not even close to over it. And that's why you don't have any motivation. Your heart is still broken and you have not had any healing this side of the divorce yet. That's what I heard.

[Caller]

Am I wrong? I mean, I definitely don't disagree that there's healing that will be continual for a very long time. That I. I think that I'm a little bit pragmatic in understanding, like, accepting that this isn't what she wanted. And so that part was easier to deal with. I think the kids is the big heartbreak part for me over everything. And so I think, you know, financially, like, my money goes and it's not making crazy, it's, you know, taking them.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what do you make?

[Caller]

About 70.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much credit card debt did you take on when she walked off from you?

[Caller]

I took on all of our credit card debt so that I could essentially buy more time with my kids, which is 50k.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's a lie. You told yourself the court decides how much time you get with your kids, not whether you take on credit card debt.

[Caller]

Well, no, I mean, we negotiated.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know you negotiated and you lost it wasn't because you traded 50k for your kids. That's not true. You lost the negotiation and that's all. That's true. So anyway, you took all 50k in credit card debt, you got $70,000 income, you got your heart trampled on and you feel hopeless. Of course that's normal. That just makes you a human being. I think it's going to take you a little while to get your fight back, to get your swagger back, to get your. I'm going to grit my teeth and I'm going to come out swinging and I'm going to KN this stuff out and I'm going to go have a great life. The second chapter of David's life is going to be a great chapter, but you're not there yet. I hear too much sadness in your voice. Do you hear it, George?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Yeah. David, this is going to be really tough until you get some healing. And it would be weird if you called in and you were like, man, I'm so motivated, I'm doing great. You went through a really difficult thing. And the financial math is hard to look at too. 50 grand in credit card debt with that interest, interest, it is crushing to look at that. But you can start taking those little baby steps, getting on the budget, living on less than you make, even while paying the child support. It might take you longer than working

[Dave Ramsey]

extra, working extra, working extra. What can I sell? What am I holding on to that looks like the past that I don't need to hold on to and get this mess cleaned up and, and, but you know, it's going to require a level of energy that you, you frankly don't have right now. But because there's just sadness in the air and that's not a put down, it just means you're human. You got the snot kicked out of you, man. It's like you were in a car wreck and you're still in intensive care and you're going, but I'm feeling pretty good. Yeah, well, not really. And so you're just still in intensive care. So if I'm you, I'm gonna sit down with my pastor, with the therapist, begin to continue to talk about this, learn how to grieve this kind of major life event. And the further it gets in your rearview mirror, from a healing perspective, not a time perspective, from a healing perspective, the more energy and hope you will have towards the future. But it's real easy to just sit in the asset of this and play it over and over and over and over in your head. Like you have for the last, actually two and a half years with the divorce being current or being final one and a half years ago. So none of that's a put down, honey, it's just meeting you where you are. I understand. I'm scared for you. I hate it for you. I'm sad for, for you. I'm mad with you. It's a horrible process that you and these kids have gone through. However, there is a great second chapter. And what is it when the sun comes out his mercies are new every morning his steadfast love is something you can count on and got a plan for you. And it's not to bring you harm but to bring you hope. And those are all true, very true things. Things for you and for me. And so when Sharon and I went through that bankruptcy, I was the same way. It took me about two years to quit talking about it as if it just happened 20 minutes ago because it took me that long. I had to get it. I had to get the filth out of my system.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

You ruminate on all this stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just sit in the filth, man. And when you go through a major life mess like that and I, and I'm like. And as soon as I started talking about the bankruptcy like it was way in the distant past, that's when I started realizing, oh, okay, that was a

[George Kamel Ramsey]

different day back there.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was a different version, you know. But if you're talking about like it happened yesterday and it was four years ago then that tells me I'm still back there sitting in the filth. And we all people, that's a normal process to grieve and to go through the steps of grief and a reset of your life. When you go, go through a tragedy that was self imposed or otherwise, in his case, otherwise, in my case, I caused it. But it doesn't matter really where it came from. Still you went through the car wreck, right? You still went through the time and intensive care before you could get up and walk with a walker. And then you get up and you move a little bit more and whatever metaphor we want to use, right? But you just go into physical therapy and you eventually, in this case, you go into emotional therapy and, and you eventually get more and more and more healing and you understand what part you played in it and what part they played in it. And you can't control either one. They're both in the past.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Celia is with us in Tucson. Hey Celia, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. My name is Celia. Like I'm gonna sell you something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I'm sorry. I goofed it up. I apologize, Celia.

[Caller]

No, it's okay. It's okay. It's a really unique name.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got it. Celia.

[Caller]

I'm great, Dave. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How you can. Can we help?

[Caller]

So I am probably going to be getting engaged next month. Long story short, I picked out my own ring and asked my boyfriend, you know, is the engagement going to be happening before September so I can kind of prepare myself. And he said yes. So it's either happening this month or next month. And I was originally. I actually just found you a couple of weeks ago, probably two or three weeks ago. It's been less than a month. Me and my boyfriend are both on baby step two and paying off the debt. I have about $5,000 in medical debt, but combined our debt is about 2. We've paid off $2,000 in the last two weeks, so we're at about $20,000 between the both of us. My question to you is I was planning on going back to school in January to become an ULT technologist and I still get federal financial aid. So not necessarily student loans but actual grants and things like that. Since I'm a first generation college student and I have already been to some schooling, the program that I want to go to is 22 months and so we were planning on not getting married until I was done with the issue is I don't know if all of my financial aid will cover the cost of this 22 month program. And so I don't know if I will need a student loan at some point. And so I don't really know what to do. I don't know if I should pay off all of this debt, which I don't think I'll be done with before the program starts in January. I'm not officially signed up for it yet. Yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you make now?

[Caller]

But yeah, I make about $3,000 a month. I'm a server.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much does he make now? How much does he make now?

[Caller]

He makes our combined income.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, you're not combined yet. How much does he make?

[Caller]

I know, just, just a little more than me, about 4, 4, 4 50amonth. I mean 4504.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so he makes, he makes over 50k and you make about 36.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you're going to have an $85,000 household income and you'll have no debt or very close by January. Let's say you were married by then as an example. Okay, just to run the math out. And, and how old are you guys?

[Caller]

I'm so sorry, can you say how old are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Two.

[Caller]

Oh, I am two. And he's 25. The issue is though, is I honestly have a lot of medical issues and one of those things is I have a progressive hearing loss disorder. So they expect that I may not be able to hear at all before I'm 30 is my prognosis.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're whole again. You cut out when you told me I old. You are 26.

[Caller]

I'm 22. I'm 22. 22.

[Dave Ramsey]

So hypothetically, you will lose your hearing

[Caller]

in 10 years, in the next, in the next eight years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Assuming the technology and medical advances don't help you with that. Okay, given current, given current known knowledge. Okay, and what does a, an X was MRI technology or X ray technology?

[Caller]

Yeah, ultrasound.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ultrasound. What does an ultrasound technologist make?

[Caller]

Honestly, I should know. I would make about this just less than a nurse. So whatever that is I'm seeing, it

[George Kamel Ramsey]

can range 30 to 40 bucks an hour. So you're talking 60 to 70, even 80 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what does this class cost?

[Caller]

So for the full 22 month program, it's just under 60,000 doll dollars for books. Everything, everything is included in that 60,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

The one place so far that you've

[Caller]

priced it, it's the only place in my town that offers this program. So I would have to go through this specific.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does your boyfriend do for a living?

[Caller]

He's a general manager of a restaurant.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Well, sometimes when I've got things jumbled up like this in my life, I always go back to the old how do you eat an elephant a bite at a time thing and I start force ranking what's most important. So if I were in your shoes or if you were my daughter and you came and sat down and said, dad, this is what I'm facing, I would say the most important thing in this whole discussion is the two of you get me married as soon as possible. And the second most important thing in the discussion is that you get out of debt. And the third most important thing in the discussion, and it's third. It's not first, the tail doesn't wag. The dog is you go get this certification and you enter this career field. If it means you delay the start of this school one year, fine. If it means you find other ways to pay for it, because you find a hospital that desperately wants to sign you to a three year contract when you finish your training and they will pay for your training. Good. Go get that. If there's another scholarship out there by a ultrasound company that makes the machine and they want people certified, so they're pushing scholarships out there for the certifications and that enables you to go in January, fine. But if you can't go in January because you do life well and it means you start a year later, do life well first.

[Caller]

Yeah, for sure. So you, so you wouldn't, you would just completely ignore the fact that I'm still getting financial aid and that would go away when I'm not going to

[Dave Ramsey]

build my life around the welfare system? Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to do that. I would not delay this in order to get free money. That. That's wrong motivation. I've never seen anyone that becomes vastly successful in their life because of a government program. I've never met anybody and I've been walking around this earth a long time. I've never met a soul that said a government program made me prosperous and

[George Kamel Ramsey]

the chances of a pell grant covering 60 grand, slim to none. So that's the other part is the reality of it. It's not, do I do this for free with grants or go into student loan debt. It's okay if I'm going to pause and delay.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're not going into student loan debt. We're paying cash.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It's off the table. So that might mean it does take a year or two to save up.

[Dave Ramsey]

We both work like complete crazy people and we pile up cash. And like a lot of people who are newly married in their early 20s, in order to hit a goal, you just tear it up, baby. You get her done, you get after it. That's what people do. That's why they give young people energy. Go get it. That's what I would do. No, I would not plan my wife around Pell grant system, for God's sake.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Lisa is in Phoenix. Hi, Lisa, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm doing well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, I just had a quick question on. I have added a new rescue dog to my household which has now required me to get a larger vehicle and I need to try and figure out what is a reasonable budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

What kind of dog did you get that requires a car? Car.

[Caller]

He. Well, let's make three. But he's a American Bulldog. He's 130 pounds.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Goodness gracious.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. And how often do you haul him?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

My size.

[Dave Ramsey]

How often do you haul him?

[Caller]

Well, we do a lot. Our family, we live on the West Coast. Our family is East Coast Midwest. So we do a lot of road trips and I found I've had him for about six months and him and the other two dogs just don't. There's not a room in the back of the car. So I've been having to rest, rent larger vehicles to go visit family like every once every couple months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have children?

[Caller]

I do not. I do not. These are basically my kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I can tell. I think you're the first person I ever talked to who bought a car for a dog. The dog freak has ever happened to me.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

That's the funny part, the dog is free, but the car, that's gonna cost you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Okay, so you're thinking about buying a car. Okay.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, so do you have the cash to pay for the car you're thinking about?

[Caller]

I do. I. I have been saving.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how. How much is this car?

[Caller]

Well, I. I don't. Well, I was budgeting, like 15 to 20, but I'm finding what he fits in with the other two and enough space for luggage. We're gonna have to go. They're turning out to be, like, more close to 40, which hurts my heart to have to spend that much money, but I, um. It's. I think it's necessary, but I don't know, $40,000?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Well, I'm so confused why.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Anyway, takes $40,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can buy a $15,000 version of that same exact car that you're looking at for 40. It's called older. Anyway, now, so do you have the cash? How much do you have cash to put down or to pay? Cash.

[Caller]

Cash. I have like, 80 in the bank.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what's your household income?

[Caller]

I make 180.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're single?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you want to buy a $40,000 car, regardless of the reason, if you have the cash and you want to buy a $40,000 car, do you have any other debt?

[Caller]

Just my mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. If you're paying cash for a car and it's less than half your annual income and it's not brand new, unless you're a million, unless you're a millionaire, then. And you want. About the car, buy the car.

[Caller]

Just buy from the money. You don't. It's not a dumb decision. I just don't want to put myself in a financial.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not a dumb decision unless it's more than half your annual income and you're not paying cash for it and you have other debt and so on. Now, the thing you keep in mind and the thing that's bothering you in the back of your mind is we all know that cars go down in value like crazy. And the car you're driving right now is worth. Worth what?

[Caller]

I drive a 2013 Terrain. I've had it for 10 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's it worth?

[Caller]

So it's worth like five grand?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, so your $40,000 purchase in a few years is probably going to be worth five grand. That's what cars do. So just. You're turning 40 into five. Over time, you'll get some use out of it, some enjoyment out of it, but you make 180. You have 80 in the bank. You can afford to turn 40 into 5 and not go broke. And really not sever, limit or screw up your life in some way. It's not crazy. I would point out to you that your reason for doing this is sketchy. Okay. The fact that you want to spend $40,000 for a rescue dog to ride to your mama's in the Midwest is sketchy. Okay. You could rent a car a whole lot of times for that. And I love that you love animals. I'm an animal lover. George is an animal lover. We, we love our puppies. You know, me and Bella, the 12 pound bear dog. We, we walk every morning. I love my dog. And so all of this, we love our dogs. I'm with you on that. I get it. And, but you know, I, I, I'll be honest. I hadn't spent $40,000 on Bella.

[Caller]

Would you, would you recommend. And then, so that's for like a 20, 22 Toyota Sequoia.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just want you to, I just want you to reframe this and go, I want the car and the dog can ride in it. It's just bothering me. $40,000 to ride a rescue dog around.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Him could sit in a horse trailer in the back. It doesn't care.

[Dave Ramsey]

It is a horse. How you carry £150. She must work out saddle on that ground guy.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Lisa's got to be ripped to be able to carry £130 front. You know, English bulldog.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's great dogs too. So we love you, kiddo. We're just, we're, we're, we're laughing with you. You have the money. If it's what you want to do with your money. You've worked hard. Go get the car. That's fine. I personally would have to reset the narrative in my head because I couldn't just.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I need a better car. My car is old.

[Dave Ramsey]

And one of the things I do is I enjoy loading the dogs up and going to across the country. That's one of the things I enjoy doing. And that's okay. But I can't. It started with I gotta buy a car for this dog. No, I can't go there. That one. There's no.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

The dog needs Captain chairs with ventilated seats. It requested that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Homeward bound. Yeah.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

That dog is living a good life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Run along beside.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I just want to know. That dog was eating like a king to be £130.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm stocky little suckers.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Goodness gracious.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good little. They're good little Dogs.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

That's impressive.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like it. That's fun. It's fun talking to you, Lisa. Thank you. Enjoy the car. Pick out something you feel good about and buy it for you. And one. And a part of you is. Is that you enjoy taking care of this rescue dog. And that's a good thing.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

That dog is living its best life with, Lisa. Tell you that much. Got a brand new car out of the deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wheely goes back to the shelter and goes, hey, guys, look what I got.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

My previous owner had a much nicer car, I gotta say. Oh, man. Man, that's fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go back for a visit. Just wheel up in the.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

In the Sequoia.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the Sequoia. Look what I got, guys. Oh, man. Carter is in San Antonio. Hey, Carter. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm good. How about yourself?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. So I recently graduated with my master's about six months ago. And so I'm looking at my finances now, and I'm in a pickle. I'm making some life changes to help with the repayments of loans, but I wanted to know if there's a. Like a scenario where consolidation is best

[Dave Ramsey]

if you lower the interest rates.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your master's in?

[Caller]

Because I have interest rates. Health care administration.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you working in it?

[Caller]

I am, yes. Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you making?

[Caller]

105.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your student loan debt?

[Caller]

147.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Whoo.

[Caller]

Yeah, you pay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You overpaid for that master's baby. All right. But we're there now.

[Caller]

That also includes undergrads and so $90,000 program for grad school, so. But still. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You overpaid for it. Yeah. That's okay. You got it. We're. It's on the rearview mirror. Let's go. Let's. Now let's get it paid off. So you're going to be living on beans and rice. And get rid of that. Get rid of that degree cost.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tear into it. Because there is no. There is no debt consolidation where they pay you.

[Caller]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's only ones where you pay 147,000 and it goes away. That's what you need to concentrate on. And so the. Your interest rate's not your problem. Your big butt loan is your problem.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

And you will lose the ability to do the debt snowball because you'll just have one giant loan. So you're not going to feel as much progress if you kept it separated and just a attacked it.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are your interest rates on these things, Carter?

[Caller]

Ranging from 2.2% to 18.25.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You can choose how many of them are private.

[Caller]

Five of them are.

So $20,000 of it is private.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's probably your 18, isn't it?

[Caller]

Yes. Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, your privates, you're probably not going to. If you can get the privates consolidated and get rid of the 18s, that's going to be fine. But I don't want to roll that 2.2 in to a 6. So you pick and choose and you leave the low interest rates alone and you can, you don't have to roll them all together, but you, you do have to separate the privates from the federally insured. And of the federally insured, you get one. Time to do this and make sure every single loan you do roll in and consolidate lowers the rate. Don't roll the two up and the eight down to six. That's, that's not. That doesn't make any sense at all.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home? It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com realestate that's ramseysolutions.com real estate.

[Dave Ramsey]

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Mark and Teagan are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you live?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Bay City, Michigan. It's about two hours north of Detroit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. Welcome to Nashville.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good to have you here. And you came to do a debt free scream. How much of a.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Paid off $140,000 in about five years.

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. And your range of income during that time.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Started out around 65, 70,000 combined and now we're up to about 120,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you guys. What do y' all do for a living?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

I'm a court recorder for our circuit court in our Bay county area.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

And I am an on air announcer at a local news station.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great. Very cool. Good for you guys. How fun. What kind of debt was the 104. 40,000.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Well, I had student loans, about 61,000. And then we had the mortgage as well.

$79,000 mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have a paid off house. I'm looking at weird people.

[Caller]

I like it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go. And what's this house worth? Weird people?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

It's around 120. 130.

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Excellent. Very cool. And what do you get in Bay city, Michigan, for 120,000 bucks?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Well, it's a little two bedroom house, one bathroom, small.

About a half acre, though.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

So you can. You can get a bigger size house with less room. Property too.

Yeah. And it wasn't, you know, the nicest house on the block. But Mark's pretty handy and his family's handy as well, so we were able to fix it up and make it a nice home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How long have you guys been married?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Just shy of five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you bought it and started the process of paying off the student loans and paying off the house. Bought a modest home with some fix up, get your foot in the door, and now it's 100% paid for. You're 100% debt free. And you're how old?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

27.

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

27. And you make 120,000?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So all of you people out there who say there's an affordability crisis, that you'll never be able to buy a house in America today, Mark and Teagan said, hold my beer. So look at what they did. That's pretty stinking incredible, y'.

[Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm proud of you.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Thank you.

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool, Very cool. So you're dating and talking about this, apparently, because it starts immediately after you're married. Tell us the story.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Yeah, so basically around the time that we got engaged, I was graduating from college and I had the student loans, you know, on my shoulder. And I was like, okay, so I'm gonna have to start working on paying these off. And we started to make a plan. I didn't really know what to do. I was really stressed about it, actually. And so I felt like I was just gonna be carrying these with me for a really long time and not knowing where to start.

And so I was like, well, haven't you heard? She was upset. We were in the car. We were just driving along one day, and she was pretty upset about it. And I was like, tegan, haven't you ever heard of Dave Ramsey? And she's like, yeah, but I've never listened to them. Yeah. And I grew up listening to your show on our local radio station with my dad. Whenever we'd be working. So I was like, oh, well, you got 60,000. That's nothing. We could pay that off in no time. I've heard people on this show that have paid off way more than that.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Way worse.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is nothing.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Literally.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Hope.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Yeah, definitely.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're easily worth that.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Yes.

[Caller]

Right, right.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Most definitely. And so we started making a plan to hopefully get them paid off in two years. And we ended up doing that around 13 months. Just over a year.

Just barely over a year. Yep. Had the 60 grand. So then we kind of slowed down to pay the house off. And then the last year we were kind of like, what are we doing? So we're like, let's just pay this off. You know, we literally, you know, why don't we do it?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

So turned it up to 11 at the end.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Exactly.

And we were actually cash flowing. Him getting a bachelor's degree as well while we were working on the house.

Yep. So I got a bachelor's in personal finance now and I work at a community college, so that helped me along the way. I got a discount for the associate's degree stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how many 27 year old friends have a paid for house?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Not everybody.

[Dave Ramsey]

None.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

None.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's hard to not jump up and down and make a big deal about it.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

But did your friends know about this? Was it a kind of an open.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, we were very open about it, Especially when I was paying off my student loans because we had to say no to a lot of things. You know, being able to go out to dinner, like, you know, all the fun events cost money and so we had to say no to things along the way. And I think our friends were really aware of it, but they were really supportive. And so it would be coming over to our house and making dinner at our house and, you know, they'd bring a dessert, you know, that kind of thing. To be able to still hang out with everybody and make it happen.

Saving everybody money, you know, very old school.

[Dave Ramsey]

Going to eat at home together and have a community, have a potluck. Oh, my gosh. Very old. I love it. Very old school. Good stuff. Way to go, you guys. I'm proud of you.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Thank you. Thank you for everything. You do too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your parents had to be just jumping up and down cheering you on, right?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Oh, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yes, absolutely. And was there anybody that looked at y' all and said, you're crazy?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Oh, yeah. We had a low interest rate on the mortgage, so we had quite a few.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

So everyone went, are you kidding me, dude, you can Invest that instead of paying down your mortgage. Y. Oh, I can hear them now. Yeah, they sound. They all sound like that for some reason. Yeah, it's always that, bros. It's always a dude.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

I wouldn't do that if I were you.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

What Was your rate?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

2.65.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Oh, my goodness. What are you gonna do now? You have a 0% rate with no payment.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

I don't like having that payment at the first of the month, you know?

Yeah, it was.

[Sponsor Voice]

It was.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Oh, yeah, yeah, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, this is the house.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Watching on YouTube or Spotify.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

You got a brick home. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, about a half acre of property.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what, 1960s vintage? Probably.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Yeah. Yep, yep. 61.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's what looks like construction.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Solid home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's a great place to start and keep a picture of that. Show your grandkids and go. That's where it all started. Now you're multi millionaires.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Absolutely.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's really cool. This is where grandpa and grandma started this thing. And back in the day.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Back in all 26. We found it off. Yeah.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like it. Way to go, you guys.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

How's it feel to be 100% free five years into marriage?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Very good.

Indescribable. You know, like, when we didn't have the payment for the first month, we both just kind of, like, looked at each other like, oh, this is so weird. Like, we don't plan for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

And it feels great to, like, buy name brand foods at the grocery store and, like, not feel guilty going out,

you know, Freeing up that space in the budget was really nice because we find that we save so much quicker too, you know, so we can plan for things in the future because we're not paying for things in the past. And that's just.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Amen. That'll preach.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a T shirt right there.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like it. So good stuff. All right. What's the secret to five years of marriage? Being this happy and having your house paid off and everything. What do you tell people? How did you do that?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

I was gonna say many things.

We get along so well, but I feel like we both have patience for each other to be able to listen. Listen and, like, hear each other out. And so when we're making plans for things, we can really talk things through.

Yeah.

And that's really helpful.

She's mostly, like, right all the time, as they say. So whenever I have these big, bright ideas that are off the path, she'd kind of guide me back in because that was how it went. A lot of the times I'm the spender, she's the saver. So it was. We have that relationship. And a lot of it's just keeping your eyes on your goals and not looking at what other people have. We don't care about their goal at. It's not gonna help me any, you know, just keep an eye on your own what you have going on and on your goals in general, because you don't realize what's going on. It happens so fast, you know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. So you stayed out of the restaurants and you stayed out of trips. You bought a modest home that you could pay for very, very quickly.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that was your stepping stone. Now you'll be able to do whatever you want to do. And so there was a level of sacrificing to win in your story.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

A whole lot of what y' all did was just, we're gonna not do this so we can do this later. We're not gonna do this so we can do this later. It's live like no one else so that later you can live. And you did it. You really did do that. Yeah. We can see it in your story. That's very, very cool.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

I'm proud of you.

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good stuff. Very good. That's a power couple right there.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Most people live in mediocrity for 50 years because they that are unwilling to sacrifice for five. And you guys did the opposite. You went, what if we sacrifice for five? So the next 50 is wide open. All the options in the world. So proud of you guys.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Thank you.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

That's cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mark and Tegan, Bay City, Michigan 140,000 paid off, by the way. That's the house and everything. 27 years old with a paid for house. Not only did they purchase a home, but they paid for it. Did all of this in the first five years of marriage, making 6,65 to 120. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

3, 2, 1.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're debt free.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Oh, that's true love right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's as good as it gets, man.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

They're like a joy bomb. So fun to talk to look at. They double their income. They bought a modest house. Median home prices 420,000. Everyone's up in arms. They went, all right, we don't have to buy the median home. There's homes out there we can afford.

[Dave Ramsey]

They bought a one. Well, they bought a house that's worth 120 today. Yeah, it wasn't worth that when they Bought it, they fixed it up.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Pretty incredible.

[Dave Ramsey]

Interesting things that make you go, there's hope.

[Caller]

Sam foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's Ramsey solutions.com. Our scripture of the day, Luke 6:31. However you wish to be treated by others is how you should treat everyone else. Duke Ellington said, a problem is a chance for you to do your best. There we go folks. If you're buying or selling a home and you're thinking about buying real estate, the average first time home buyer is paying $199,000 for their home. Right now. That's the average in America. That includes a million dollars in California and that includes 60,000 in Bay City, Michigan. So you can kind of figure those in and that's how you get to 199. If you wanted a trusted real estate agent and you're corner that knows their stuff, if you're selling or buying, that's a good idea by the way. Not someone that got their license three weeks ago and then just said, oh remember we're friends. No, that's not what you need. You need somebody that's an actual professional that does like a lot of transactions and knows what the flip they're doing. A Ramsey trusted agent that we have vetted that we've done the due diligence on, you can find them for [e-mail] Agent Jeff's in Sacramento, California. Hi Jeff, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good. Dave, thanks so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Yeah, so about 10 years ago I had my own handyman business. My wife and I had a couple of kids at the time and it was, it was struggling, we were struggling to make ends meet month to month. God always provided. But you know, it was, it was hard to feel like I could get ahead with that. And at that time my father in law was actually a piano tuner. Successful for one. And since I grew up in a very musical family, I decided to learn the trade and do it on the side. And so I started tuning pianos on the side just to bring in a little extra each month. And it actually grew fast and before long it became a full time thing for me, which I'm super thankful for. Fast forward 10 years. It's turned into a very successful business. But here's my struggle. When people ask me what I do for a living now I have this embarrassment to say that I tune pianos. I don't say it with much confidence. I'm very proud of what I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

You make a good living.

[Caller]

Do I make around 200 to 230 a year?

[Dave Ramsey]

Who gives a crap what people think? Yeah, you make a quarter million dollars a year. There's a lot of lawyers that don't make that and they should be ashamed, not you.

[Caller]

Yes, I'm very proud of it. I think I have this stereotype of what piano tuners are in my head. I remember the piano tuner coming to our house and I.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the stereotype? That they're broke?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. They're not very successful and it's still that way. A lot of them. Most of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, it's like we live in Nashville, you know, in Nashville, George and I live here. And it's like, how do you get the next country music stars attention? Waiter. Yeah, it's a stereotype, right? I mean, everybody in Nashville sings except me. I'm the only one here that doesn't sing. Everyone else sings.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I've heard Rachel try.

[Dave Ramsey]

Rachel does not sing. Please, God, don't let Rachel sing.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

So is this in your head?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

The point is, his stereotype is right. Stereotype's based on something. If you live in la, how do you get to the next actor's attention? Wait. Right? I mean, what are you doing? I work. I'm an extra on a commercial. What does that even mean? But yeah, it means your wait tables is what it means. And there's nothing wrong with that. You're doing that to get your career started. If that's you, I'm not making fun of you, I'm just making fun of you. It's a stereotype. And that's where that comes from. It's a generalization. So the difference is you're highly successful. I don't know. I don't know how to tell you. I.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

There's a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not ashamed at all for you. I think you're awesome, so I don't want you to be. I don't know how to defend you

[George Kamel Ramsey]

when people ask what I do and I have to say YouTuber, you know, there's a stereotype there. They don't know that it's popular.

[Dave Ramsey]

They don't have a cat that chases

[George Kamel Ramsey]

lasers or a guy that, you know, sells Pokemon cards and he makes $300,000 a year. But you go, wow, you sell Pokemon cards. So people are always going to have opinions. And these people probably aren't in your circle, right? The people that actually care that you love probably are so proud of you and couldn't give a rip what you do.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're more than that. So yeah, I don't know how to teach you to reframe it if it were me, because I get where you're coming from, but I'm proud of you that you killed it. You obviously have business acumen to go with your ability, with your ability to tune pianos. Pretty incredible. So maybe you reframe it by. Okay, here's how I did it. When I went broke, I filed bankruptcy because I was stupid and went into debt. There's a certain amount of shame that goes with that. A stereotype that goes with that. And so what I had to reframe was, okay, who cares? The people that care don't care in your case, okay? And in my case, the people that care about me don't care if I went bankrupt. They care about me and my family. My kids don't care, my grandkids now don't care. My wife doesn't care. The people that are all upset about it aren't people that I care about. And so I had to reset. Who do I need? I need to impress the right people and not be worried about impressing the wrong people. Who gets a vote in this. And I can guarantee you that your father in law taught you the trade, right?

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's proud of you. Which by definition means his daughter. Your wife is. Your kids are eating really well. You've built an unusually high paying. I would have never guessed you were going to tell me that much money on income. Income because of the stereotype.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you know, among piano tuners, you are the elite.

[Caller]

Well, I feel like that's. I, that's the part that I feel like I have to share with people. When I say I'm a piano tuner, I want to follow it up with. But just so you know, I make really good money.

[Dave Ramsey]

In order, I'm probably the most highly paid piano tuner you'll ever meet.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Now if you said I run a piano tuning business, does that have a different ring to it or I'm a multi generational piano piano tuning business. That's. That's pretty cool. Now I'm interested.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

But there's nothing wrong with it. If you just said, I tune pianos for a living. That's incredible. Something you love to do. You get paid well to do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just. See, I mean, I get it. You're standing around at some party and some. You're holding a glass. Everybody's got a glass, you know, what do you do?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I'm an engineer.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do? You know, what do you do? It's hard for me to explain what I do to this.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I still don't know what you do.

[Dave Ramsey]

I still. I can't decide if I'm an author or I'm a. I was a radio guy for a while and I still

[George Kamel Ramsey]

am, but Now I'm a YouTuber to YouTuber.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm an old YouTuber, I think.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

CEO of Ramsey Sal. That's a pretty cool title.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go. I'm the CEO of Ramsey Solutions.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

You're an entrepreneur.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I'll say. I'm the CEO. I am, actually. But nobody gives a rip, you know? It's hilarious.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I'll always care. I'll always care about you, no matter what you do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you, George.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

And you're a great. You know, you could. You taught me how to water ski.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, there we go. I've got. I got a fallback.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Add that. Got a side hustle to your LinkedIn resume.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave Ramsey water ski class.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

If you can teach me how to do that, you should win a Nobel Peace Prize.

[Dave Ramsey]

I taught people that didn't think they could float how to do that. Man, that's. Yeah, that's. You know, in front of the.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

It just goes to show that people put a lot of stake into their work and their identity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Interesting question.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Yeah. No matter what it was. Piano tuner, whatever. You know, if you're a. You work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honestly, when I hear in Nashville that you're a musician, I automatically assume that you're an unsuccessful musician.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Oh, unsuccessful.

[Dave Ramsey]

I automatically assume that. Wow. And, you know, like, if I hear. What do you do? I'm a songwriter. Okay. You and everybody else. Have you written anything I might have heard of? You know, now I'm starting to figure out if you really are making a living.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

I'm an actor. Have I seen your work?

[Mark or Teagan (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have I seen your work? There it is. That's good, George. I like that.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Have you seen the Campbell Soup commercial? I was in that, you know, but you never know, so it's interesting. It really. It's a social experiment to see what people assume based on your field.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But I think it goes back to what Deloney talks about all the time. Who are you giving? A vote. And, you know, it's almost humorous that I don't want you to figure it out.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, if I'm him standing at a party going, I make three times what you do in my head.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

You see the house he had? Look at that car. He's a piano tuner.

[Caller]

Who knew?

[George Kamel Ramsey]

How does he. He must have a trust fund. No, he's just really good at his job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like the. What's the movie about? The hitman. He's. I'm a house painter.

[George Kamel Ramsey]

Oh, that one.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not true about the piano tuner, though. I'm just saying that puts us out with the right Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.