Chasing Easy Money Always Ends in Regret

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show - "Chasing Easy Money Always Ends in Regret"

Release Date: May 21, 2025

In this insightful episode of The Ramsey Show, host George Camel and co-host Rachel Cruz delve into the pitfalls of chasing quick financial gains. Through a series of caller stories, experts offer practical advice on managing debt, restructuring income, and building sustainable wealth. Below is a comprehensive summary capturing the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Rachel's Medical Debt Crisis

Timestamp: [00:45 - 05:50]

Caller: Rachel Cruz, 20 years old
Situation: Rachel incurred $43,000 in medical debt from an emergency surgery a year ago without insurance. She co-owns a general contracting business and recently started a photography studio, earning about $20,000 to $25,000 annually. Her business structure leaves her personal income minimal, making it difficult to address the debt.

Discussion:

• Dr. John Deloney emphasized the need for Rachel to restructure her business income to increase her personal earnings:

  "Could you get 40, give yourself a raise? $42,000 to pay off your medical bill." [05:06]

• George Camel highlighted the unsustainable income structure:

  "You're going to be stuck in the cycle the rest of your life, stuck." [05:50]

Advice:

• Restructure the business to pay a higher personal salary.
• Negotiate with creditors to potentially reduce the debt.
• Reevaluate business finances to ensure self-sufficiency.

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2. Andrew's Remarried Financial Dynamics

Timestamp: [09:54 - 19:07]

Caller: Andrew
Situation: Andrew, who recently remarried, has significantly higher income than his husband, a firefighter with $15,000 in credit card and student loan debt. Andrew wants to help but faces resistance, as his husband prefers handling debts independently.

Discussion:

• Dr. John Deloney stressed the importance of aligning financial goals as a couple:

  "Our goal is to build wealth and to do these things together." [10:43]

• George Camel pointed out the need for mutual financial planning:

  "Let him experience some of this sacrifice and also paint the picture of the future." [16:50]

Advice:

• Foster open communication about financial goals and responsibilities.
• Combine finances to work towards shared objectives.
• Support each other in debt management without undermining personal pride.

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3. Denise's Son Falls for a Crypto Scam

Timestamp: [22:14 - 24:36]

Caller: Denise's son
Situation: Denise's 51-year-old son invested $600,000 in a cryptocurrency scam. An attorney suggests suing the exchange, but only about $25,000 is recoverable after fees.

Discussion:

• George Camel criticized the low recovery rate:

  "You invest $600,000 and you'll be lucky to get $25,000 back." [22:44]

Advice:

• Assess if the emotional and financial toll of legal action is worth the minimal recovery.
• Focus on rebuilding finances rather than pursuing a likely futile lawsuit.
• Stay vigilant to avoid future scams, especially in high-risk areas like cryptocurrency.

---

4. Tim's Struggle in Door-to-Door Sales

Timestamp: [25:18 - 31:00]

Caller: Tim
Situation: At 23, Tim earns $850 a month in door-to-door solar panel sales. Despite holding a degree in Homeland Security, he struggles to find stable, higher-paying employment aligned with his education.

Discussion:

• Dr. John Deloney recommended leveraging his degree for more stable employment:

  "I would probably just go get a job in what your field is." [30:36]

• George Camel emphasized the importance of a stable income over a challenging sales role:

  "If you're bad at a job that pays stable income, then you at least can eat." [30:32]

Advice:

• Seek employment opportunities in cybersecurity or IT where his degree is applicable.
• Utilize his education to secure a higher-paying, more stable career path.
• Consider entry-level positions to gain relevant experience and build a solid income foundation.

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5. Christine's Ambitions in Day Trading and Real Estate

Timestamp: [34:15 - 43:03]

Caller: Christine, 22 years old
Situation: Christine earns between $30,000 and $90,000 monthly through day trading futures and aims to venture into real estate investment. She utilizes prop firms, allowing her to trade with their capital while keeping a portion of the profits. She is cautious about leveraging but seeks guidance on timing her entry into real estate.

Discussion:

• Dr. John Deloney advised prioritizing the purchase of a primary residence before investment real estate:

  "If you're going to go beyond your primary residence, you want to do it with cash." [38:22]

• George Camel cautioned against over-leveraging and stressed the importance of cash flow:

  "Build wealth the old fashioned way of just living debt free." [64:34]

Advice:

• Secure a primary residence to stabilize her financial base.
• Approach real estate investments with cash to avoid debt and ensure sustainability.
• Diversify investments cautiously, recognizing the risks associated with leveraging and property flipping.

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6. Sarah's Father Falls Victim to Multiple Scams

Timestamp: [45:02 - 53:05]

Caller: Sarah
Situation: Sarah's 65-year-old father, recently widowed and pushed into retirement, lost substantial funds ($80,000-$90,000) to a romance scam and a cryptocurrency scam. His limited retirement savings were diverted to cover medical bills for Sarah's mother, exacerbating his financial vulnerability.

Discussion:

• George Camel likened the struggle to helping a brick wall:

  "You're trying to help a brick wall." [52:07]

• Dr. John Deloney recommended selling the family's flipping property to assist her father:

  "This was probably our advice to him." [52:58]

Advice:

• Maintain separate finances to prevent entanglement between Sarah’s family and her father's financial issues.
• Encourage the father to protect his remaining assets by freezing credit and eliminating access points for further scams.
• Consider selling non-essential assets to mitigate existing debts.

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7. Adam's Journey to Building Wealth Amid Disability

Timestamp: [78:08 - 87:02]

Caller: Adam, 32 years old
Situation: Adam, a disabled veteran with a spinal cord injury and a rare disease, receives $5,600 monthly from VA disability and his wife earns an additional $5,000 through film editing and caregiving. Despite significant medical expenses ($15,000-$20,000 monthly), they have $150,000 saved in Vanguard. Adam seeks advice on building wealth under his debilitating condition.

Discussion:

• George Camel illustrated the power of compound growth:

  "If you invested $1,500 a month, you'd have over $6 million by 62." [83:00]

• Dr. John Deloney highlighted the importance of consistent investing:

  "Consistency of investing for you guys is going to be your key." [84:09]

Advice:

• Maximize contributions to Roth IRAs and consider spousal Roth IRAs to take advantage of tax-advantaged growth.
• Continue disciplined investing despite high medical costs to leverage compound interest over time.
• Maintain an emergency fund to cover unforeseen medical expenses, ensuring financial stability.

---

8. Joseph's Landscaping Business and Credit Concerns

Timestamp: [55:40 - 64:36]

Caller: Joseph
Situation: At 22, Joseph runs a landscaping business generating $10,000 monthly as a sole proprietor. He faces a dilemma about maintaining a credit card to sustain a high credit score versus eliminating debt to operate his business cash-only. He aims to purchase real estate in the future but is uncertain about the timing and impact on his business growth.

Discussion:

• George Camel advocated for a debt-free business model:

  "Build wealth the old fashioned way of just living debt free." [64:34]

• Dr. John Deloney emphasized the benefits of living debt-free for peace of mind and financial stability:

  "Debt robs so much from us. Not just our income, but also our peace of mind." [64:27]

Advice:

• Continue operating the business without debt, using cash and business debit cards for transactions.
• Prioritize saving for large investments like real estate to avoid leveraging and associated risks.
• Focus on sustainable growth by reinvesting profits rather than seeking external financing.

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9. Anthony's Struggle with Family Business Compensation

Timestamp: [72:26 - 75:15]

Caller: Anthony, 33 years old
Situation: Anthony works in the family-run childcare business, feeling overworked and undercompensated. He struggles to communicate his dissatisfaction to his "alpha" father, who dominates the business decisions without considering the employees' well-being.

Discussion:

• George Camel emphasized the importance of prioritizing personal well-being over a toxic work environment:

  "If it robs you of your peace, it's not worth the paycheck." [75:11]

• Dr. John Deloney recommended having a difficult but necessary conversation with his father about his concerns:

  "Giving notice and giving a hefty notice to say, 'My time here is done.'" [75:31]

Advice:

• Address the issue directly with the father, outlining the need for fair compensation and better work conditions.
• If changes are not forthcoming, consider exiting the family business to preserve mental health and personal well-being.
• Establish clear boundaries to maintain a healthy family and professional relationship.

---

Key Takeaways and Insights

• Debt Management: Prioritize paying off existing debts before seeking new investments. Restructure personal and business finances to ensure sustainable income.

• Investment Strategies: Emphasize cash-based investments over leveraging through credit or loans. Utilize tax-advantaged accounts like Roth IRAs for long-term growth.

• Financial Communication: Foster open dialogue within households and families to align financial goals and responsibilities. Mutual support and understanding are crucial for financial harmony.

• Risk Awareness: Be cautious of high-risk investment opportunities such as cryptocurrency and door-to-door sales schemes. Focus on stable, proven methods for building wealth.

• Mental Well-being: Financial stability contributes significantly to mental health. Strive for debt-free living to enhance peace of mind and overall quality of life.

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Notable Quotes

• George Camel:

  "Build wealth the old fashioned way of just living debt free." [64:34]

• Dr. John Deloney:

  "Debt robs so much from us. Not just our income, but also our peace of mind." [64:27]

• George Camel:

  "You're going to be stuck in the cycle the rest of your life, stuck." [05:50]

---

This episode vividly illustrates the consequences of pursuing easy money without strategic financial planning. Through real-life caller scenarios, The Ramsey Show underscores the importance of disciplined budgeting, debt elimination, and cautious investing to achieve long-term financial success and personal well-being.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Camel]

From Ramsey Network. This is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel joined by my co host and co host of the Smart money happy hour. Rachel Cruz is here and we're taking your calls at Triple 882-55-5225. You call us and we're gonna have help you take the right next step with your life and your money. That is our guarantee. Andrew is calling up first in St. Louis. What's going on, Andrew? How can we help today?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Sure.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm a massive fan of the show. So this is kind of an exciting moment for me. So my question is I'm 20 years old. I had an emergency surgery about a year ago and Now I have $43,000 in medical debt that I have no idea what to do with. And so I'm needing some guidance on that.

[George Camel]

Goodness gracious.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, man. Did your insurance didn't cover any portion of it?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't have. I, I don't have and didn't have insurance at the time. So. No, there's no insurance.

[George Camel]

Did you tell them you were cash pay? Cause usually you'll get a real steep discount.

[Rachel Cruz]

I did. I didn't even mention that because at the time it was, it was, it was all in one day thing. It happened so quick and then at the time I didn't even know how much it was going to cost. And then when I got to figure, I just, I was so dumbfounded. I just didn't even know what to do with it. So I just.

[George Camel]

How long ago was that?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's been almost a year. It'll. I think we're just shy of a month now of it being a full year.

[George Camel]

Have you made any payments?

[Rachel Cruz]

No.

[George Camel]

Okay. Have they sent it to collections?

[Rachel Cruz]

I. Yes, I think they sent part of it to collections. I haven't, I haven't checked in to see if they sent the full amount, but I know definitely 5,000 of that figure has for sure gone over there. I don't know about the full.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Was that through a letter, Andrew, or how did they contact you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, so that was a letter I got in the mail and an email from the hospital themselves.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. What. Where are you financially? Are you working? Are you a student?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I'm working. I'm one of three partners in a general contracting business that I've owned for five years with my dad and brother and then justice this past year, I started up a photography studio and that's starting to pick up steam. So I bring in about 20 to 25 a year. That's just what I take, though I generally don't take more. I've only taken what I need from.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The photography or the dental.

[Rachel Cruz]

You mentioned.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What did you say?

[George Camel]

But you said you're a general contractor.

[Rachel Cruz]

The general contractor. That's for my general contracting. I take 20 to 25 a year. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Do you have health insurance now?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I am getting it written up for me now. I've not really paid any mind to it until now because I. I feel like it's been sitting a little long. It's. It's from a buddy of mine. He. He writes insurance for me and he was looking in to see what he can get me as far as help.

[George Camel]

Okay, so he's a legitimate insurance broker?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, he's an insurance broker. He's looking into what he can write for me. Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. That is something you need to get in place today.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. I'm. I'm wondering why, from a income perspective, Andrew, did the surgery affect your ability to work?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, not at all. The income number is. Is by standards, really low. It's just what I take. So I don't. I don't have.

[George Camel]

Could you take more? I don't understand. Or the rest of the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're not. You're not working there. You just own it. So you get like a dividend? Basically, yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I do. I do work. So basically what it is, is my expenses are very low because I don't have rent, I don't own a home. I'm still at home with my parents. So I do pay them utilities and rent, but it's very small. I have a very small monthly budget. So essentially I just take to cover that monthly budget and a little bit extra to put in savings is all it is. So I don't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're not charging full rate of the work you're doing as a contractor?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, the businesses that I'm not taking.

[George Camel]

So where is that money?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Where's the rest of the money that you're owed for the work that you're doing?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, it's not necessary. It's not money that I'm. It's not money that I'm owed. It's just money that I'm. That we leave in the business and use for business expenses. And then I just take what I need for my personal expense.

[George Camel]

So how much could you pay yourself?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Could you get 40, give yourself a raise? $42,000 to pay off your medical bill. Like, I don't like the way that's structured, Andrew. You know, I'm saying like if you're working 40 hours a week, I should be compensated.

[George Camel]

You're making $10 an hour.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

You're in your butt.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

That sucks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's not. You should be compensated.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, yeah, it's, it's, it's compensated. More than that. It's difficult to explain because a lot of my expenses, a lot of other expenses are ran through the business. So it's just my personal expenses.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Like I know, Andrew, but you need more money to start saving. You need more money to start investing. You need more money for you to start saving for a down payment for a home. Like you need more money.

[George Camel]

You're going to be stuck in the cycle the rest of your life, stuck.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In this forever and not have any cash flow available to you. Does that make sense? Like you won't even be able to build up an emergency fund making $20,000 a year. So your structure in this company is pretty whack. It doesn't allow you to be self sufficient, which is part of the problem of you seeing $43,000 of a medical expense and you don't know how the heck you're going to pay it because you're not making anything. Even though your expenses are low. That's not the way to calculate an income. Does that make sense? Yeah. For you to be self sustaining now, if you are working part time, that makes sense. But for you to be a self sustaining adult where you are a full time worker, you need to think, be thinking beyond what your expenses are now because you don't want to be where you are now in five, ten years. Do you? Like you want a house, you want to be living on your own, paying your own electricity and you're about to.

[George Camel]

Have health insurance premiums kick in. So you definitely need to make that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Scared me pretty good when I, when I had this happen, so yeah, for sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So this is kind of your wakeup call to you need to be restructured. You're paying. Yeah. The way you're paid needs to be. And my fear is, is that the way you guys have conducted this family business is that they need you only pulling out 20,000 a year because they need more for profit. Like I'm scared that you're getting shortchanged as an investment quote unquote, back into the company. But they're needing that margin to keep the company afloat. And if you said, hey, I need to be paid Market rates. As for an income, would they be able to afford you?

[Rachel Cruz]

I feel what you're saying. I do hear that. I'm just, I don't really know how to explain it because a lot of my expenses are gone through business. Does that make sense? I don't know.

[Christine]

I don't know how to explain it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What expenses? Because I'm trying to help loosen this rope for you so that you can make more money to pay off $43,000 of debt that you have. Does that make sense?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So it's just, it's any, basically anything that can be a business write off is put through the business. We don't draw it into a personal income. Does that make sense?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, but. Yeah, but your food, your grocery, I mean, and I know you live at home. It's just a, it's a very tangled way to do life right now, Andrew. So from a, from a money perspective. So I want you to hear that. I understand you guys are trying to do all these loopholes. So you don't pay taxes, but you're getting screwed in the process. Andrew, you have no money.

[George Camel]

You're on the poverty line.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You have no money and you're living with your parents and you're expected to be paying $43,000 of a medical debt. So something needs to be restructured for you to make more money. You have to, Andrew, these bills are coming. So I need you to feel the gravity of that. This is an adult decision and the business is going to have to be making some different decisions for you or you're going to have to leave the business and go get a job. Yeah, I would pay this debt.

[George Camel]

You got to face the music and choose reality. Negotiate down the debt as low as you can and hopefully you can get out of this mess. Ever look at your phone bill and feel like you're trying to decode a top secret message? $17.42 for advanced signal Optimization. What even is that? Well, luckily Boost Mobile keeps it simple. Just 25amonth for unlimited talk, text and data with no contracts. Absolutely zero nonsense and a price that's guaranteed for forever. Plus Boost backs it up with a 30 day money back guarantee. So you can try it without feeling trapped. Go to boostmobile.com Ramsey to make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com Ramsey restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details. Christine is up next in Philadelphia. What's going on, Christine? How can we help?

[Andrew]

Hi George, how are you?

[George Camel]

Great. How are you?

[Andrew]

I'm doing great. So my question is, I got Remarried a couple years ago, and I have significantly more money than my husband. He's got. He's got maybe, like, $15,000 worth of credit card and student loan debt that I kind of offered to help with. And he was like, no, no, I want to do it. I'm just wondering if I should, like, push that or if I should just help him in other ways, like, with, like, budgeting or, like, just.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Andrew]

To get him on the path to do it himself.

[Dr. John Deloney]

As a man, you want.

[George Camel]

How much money do you have liquid? Like, could you write a check today and be done with all the debt and still have plenty of money left? Yes. Okay. It sounds like he. This is a pride thing for him. Of, like, no, I took out this debt. I made the mess. Let me clean it up as the man.

[Andrew]

He's a firefighter, and he's like, I want to do it. And he's got. He's only been on for a couple years, so it's like he's making more now. So I told him to pause his contributions, which he. He did. Listen to me. And so he will probably have a knockdown in the next six months anyway.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. But, yeah, I think for me, because, yeah, like you said, the debt. The debt will be paid off, and it's not going to be even an issue, you know, here in a few months. But I think the bigger problem is the alignment on which you guys are making that decision, because you are still speaking as if it is two different, you know, money situations under the one household versus, if you all were saying, you know, as a couple, our goal is to build wealth and to do these things, whether it's replace a car, go on a great vacation. Like, we have these goals in life that we want to do, and what's the fastest way to accomplish those goals together? And the fastest would be to get out of debt ASAP and start working towards those goals together. So. But that's more of a holistic viewpoint, that we see this situation as us, not just him and you. Right. So. So that's it. I mean, the debt's gonna go away, but my fear is that this mindset still stays, and it'll take you guys longer to win financially and miss so many opportunities to continue to build a level of connection and intimacy as a couple and to say, hey, we are one in every aspect of our lives, including this one. And so it just kind of stunts that if you continue with this mindset.

[Andrew]

So how would I guess from my side and from his? Like, how would I been work and I don't know how you hit right on that, but you did. Because it is like a struggle for me because I feel like I've worked really hard and sacrificed and I don't even have a college degree. I just am a really hard worker and I don't buy things that I shouldn't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

So how do I approach it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Approach it with him? Yeah, I mean, I mean, with him.

[Andrew]

I feel like I bother him when I'm really like, oh, we need to be budgeting. And he's like, all right, all you want to talk about is for me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Totally, totally. Yeah. So I think you can appreciate and Georgie probably speak into the suit with you and Whitney, you can appreciate opposites. Like Winston, my husband is like, hey, look at this excel sheet for the next seven years. And I'm like, I don't really even want to look at that. Even though I talk about money every day of my life. He's more into that stuff. George loves a budget. Whitney's a little bit more of a free spirit, so she likes to know.

[George Camel]

There is a spreadsheet. She doesn't want to actually look at it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, there you go. So. So you guys are going to have different personalities, but don't let that stop you guys as seeing yourselves as a team when it comes to your money and seeing yourselves as one. So. So yeah, I think if you're. If you go to him to your point and you're like, we need a tonight. I'm just so excited on a budget. He's gonna be like, oh, Christine. Oh my gosh. Like, geez. You know, I mean, like, make you.

[George Camel]

Guys need a dream date and cast some vision.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. But I think it's more of like, it's just the mindset of, you know, it's not about the budget, it's not about the debt. It's us together as a couple. I want to do this life together. And part of that is like sharing the responsibility money wise, like that. I just want to. I want to work out of one account. I don't want to venmo each other bills and. And your income and my income, like it let it all go to one account. And together as a household. We are running this household in this family. And money is just a tool to allow us to do the things that we want to do in life. And let's do that together versus separate. And so that's kind of the way I would approach it. And then the tactical side out of that, once you guys agree on that holistic picture together is okay. Together as one. What do we need to do to be financially healthy? Well, we need to have an emergency fund of $1,000. Check. Okay. We need to be completely debt free. All right. That's our next goal. Perfect. Let's put some of this money that's in one account. You know what I mean? Put that 50,000 there. Pay that off. Great. Now we need an emergency fund. Okay, great. Let's do that. Next. We have a dream, because we've done a dream date, just like George said, and we have a big dream to take the family to this destination in two years. So what do we need to save each month to do that? Right. Like, you start actually planning and living life together.

[Andrew]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is that helpful? Because I understand what you're saying, and I think if we. I think couples usually go the tactical side.

[George Camel]

Zoom out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

First. And then you reverse engineer it with the tactical.

[Andrew]

I have, like, a good amount. Like, I have probably close to half a million. And plus I have about a few hundred thousand in, like, a rental that I own. So I have to. I know I have to work on that and, like, combining and really switching my mind.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Is this a second marriage for him?

[Andrew]

No.

[George Camel]

Okay. I'm just trying to figure out where this is coming from. And it feels like, well, she's coming in to swoop in and save me because she's done a great job and I've done a poor job. And his whole life, his job is to save people. You know what I mean? It's emasculating to be like, well, can you come save me from my debt? I messed up. And so I think you haven't been approaching it with any sort of attitude of, well, you need to fix this, and I'll fix it for you. I think let him experience some of this sacrifice and also paint the picture of the future and go, what's the best way to accomplish this? Great. Let me just pay this off. You're going to be sacrificing the rest of your life in this marriage to build wealth together. But let's get a clean slate faster. I hope that helps with him. I mean, if he really wants to do this on his own, he can. But again, it's not going to lead you guys toward the unity that you need as a couple.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And I'm assuming, Christine, so correct me if I'm wrong, you fully trust him financially?

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Okay, good, good, good. Because to your point, there is a level of like, oh, my gosh, you know, I've saved half a million dollars and handing that over. Right? I mean, just. We want to just all say out loud, yes, this is a person that is trustworthy to share in goals and us together walk this path. Right. Because we get calls sometimes, Christine, which is not your case, thankfully, but calls that. They're like, I don't really trust them. And you're like, all right, well, let's hold the brakes. Tap the brakes then, before we do that.

[Andrew]

So, yeah, I mean, honestly, it's like the opposite. Like, he. Like you mentioned George. I don't think he. He does not want to feel emasculated. If anything, we have two small children. He's like, you don't have to work. I'll work more overtime. And I'm like, okay. Like, I'll keep contributing and I can, but I. I don't want to take that away from him either, as a man.

[George Camel]

So this is in the South. We call this block and a blessing. All right? If you're offering this gift to him and he's saying, no, no, no, that's blocking a blessing. All right? If someone wants to take me out to dinner, even though I can afford it, I'm going to say yes, because that's a gift they want to give me. And I think you, as his new wife, it's something that you're offering, and it feels like he needs to work for it. And the truth is, he doesn't. He got you. That's the best gift of all.

[Andrew]

Aw, thank you.

[George Camel]

So maybe he'll listen to this call and he'll. Toby.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it doesn't make you less of a man or a woman. I understand. For guys, it's a totally different perspective. I think, you know, there's differences in men and women when it comes to how we relate and see and view money. But. But that's the problem, too, is I think we've related so much of our money. There are mistakes or our successes with who we are as a person. And that's just not the truth. So whether he made a lot of mistakes with money or didn't make a lot, or you were really great with money or you weren't great with money, like, regardless, it doesn't matter. It doesn't affect who you are as a person. And you guys married because you loved the person. And yet we live in this world where money suddenly is like this measuring stick. And so I have to earn and find value and covering up and, you know, making up for my mistakes. Well, that's not. No, take all that off. Like, that's not on you. We're doing this together.

[George Camel]

Beautifully said. Thanks for the call. Christine, this is the Ramsey.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right. Dave, you have some strong opinions, possibly? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, credit unions, for one thing, are nonprofit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. And. But that's what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fair Winds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values, and they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach, they so line up with. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like, the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I, I so, so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with [e-mail] or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org Ramsey Fairwinds is.

[George Camel]

Federally insured by NCUA.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Foreign.

[George Camel]

The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is sponsored by Y Refi. If you're buried in defaulted private student loans, you're not alone. Reach out to Y Refi to see if they can help build a custom plan to help dig you out. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's y r e f y dot com. Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, we have today's question from Denise. In Massachusetts, my 51 year old son invested $600,000 in a crypto exchange scam and he cannot recover the funds. An attorney says he can sue the exchange that facilitated the transaction. However, after fees, he can only expect to recover about $25,000 of it should he go forward the process of trying to at least get some of his money back.

[George Camel]

Yikes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Gosh, George, that's one of the highest ones I've heard.

[George Camel]

You invest 600000 and you'll be lucky to get 25 out. You're telling me there's 96 fees, right? I just don't understand that part. Yeah, but is the juice worth the squeeze here? I'm gonna say no because I mean the attorney is going to cost money. I don't know if that Inc. I assume that includes attorney fees. We don't know. But the time spent and then the mental energy and it living rent free in your head during this entire time, which could take years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

To go through with this, I don't think it's worth it. This is what we would call stupid tax on steroids.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, $600,000, if you were going to.

[George Camel]

Get potentially 600,000 back, I'd say, yeah, let's fight it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

But to get a 4% return on this, I don't think it's worth it. I would try to rebuild as best as he can. I mean, if he was able to amass $600,000 liquid to invest, I hope he does well for himself and he can try to rebuild.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Could you imagine.

[George Camel]

I don't know that. I mean that would take years of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This would make me sick.

[George Camel]

I would take that, the money you're going to put into this, and just go to therapy. Honestly, that's really what I would do. Because you experienced a trauma that no one should experience here. And it's one of the reasons I am not a fan of the. The world of cryptocurrency. Yeah, not crypto itself, just the world is rife with scams and fraud.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Scams. Yes. So many.

[George Camel]

And you can't tell what's what and what's real. And is the exchange gonna go down and. Oh, that's brutal. But I personally, I don't think I'd go through with it. For 25 grand. You can go make 25 grand for the time you would have spent fighting it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah. And then like you said, if you have to pay attorney's fees on top of it. It's at the end.

[George Camel]

Could get real pricey.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yep.

[George Camel]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Stay away from scams and don't invest a lot of your world into crypto.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

That's just one man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have any. Do you have any desire at all? Because, you know, you're baby step seven. I mean, like, if you had. If you had a million dollars in a high yield savings account, George, would.

[George Camel]

I put any of it into crypto? Yeah, I think I. It hurts my soul to lose money. And there's too much downside. It's not even to it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're like, I would just rather put everything in an index fund just now.

[George Camel]

Knowing what I know. What, have I bought some Bitcoin 10 years ago?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely right.

[George Camel]

Wouldn't we all buy into a company stock that we knew was gonna blow up?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[George Camel]

Sure. I would have bought Uber 15 years ago.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Totally, Totally, Absolutely, totally. So not Peloton, though. Remember, we looked that up.

[George Camel]

Yeah, Peloton. Oh, my goodness. It skyrocketed. You know, the pandemic in 2021, and then it just flatlined back down. And so just goes to show you, even the trends.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Seem like it's a brand that will be around forever.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And then you see Crocs exploding and you're like, okay, what is happening? What is going on?

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's happening in the world?

[George Camel]

But I have no desire. I'm not angry about it. It's not like a staunch principle that I'm anti.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

I would just rather put that into an index fund and call it a day. Lower my up potential upside.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, it's good. It's good.

[George Camel]

One man's take. All right. Tim is in Newark, New Jersey. Tim, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Adam]

Hi, guys.

[George Camel]

What's going on?

[Adam]

Nothing much. My question for you guys would be, So I make $850 a month in a career that I'm trying to pursue, like, long term. Should I quit or stick it out because of the fact that it's like kind of a career I'm still trying to pursue.

[George Camel]

I think you're being generous calling this a career. What is this?

[Adam]

So it's door to door sales for solar panels. I knock on, you know, door to door.

[George Camel]

Yep. And why are you only making 850?

[Adam]

I think it's just because my skill isn't there yet.

[George Camel]

But you're telling me this is what you want to be doing? What do you want to be doing long term?

[Adam]

Something in, like, business? Long Term like and I thought that this would be like a good stepping stone because of like you know, your faith. I've heard that door to door is like the hardest. So that would be like a good starting point I think.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean essentially yes. Door to door sales is very difficult. I think the craft of that and the world that we live in has changed. I think it 20 years ago was actually like a pretty profitable way to make, to make some money nowadays I don't think that is. I think there's a way better ways for you to make more money and still learn sales and make more than 850. How are you eating, Tim? How are you living? Paying bills and stuff?

[Adam]

I basically, I mean I live at home so my rent is nothing. Even though like I've offered it. I use my parents car for getting around. I pay for gas but like I don't like a lot of expenses are not there. How old are you allowed me to do this? I'm 23.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Did you go to school?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Adam]

So I graduated with a four year degree in one from a pretty reputable college. Homeland Security.

[George Camel]

Well you have a degree in Homeland Security?

[Adam]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

What was the goal?

[Adam]

In my senior year? So I originally went to college for kinesiology, for physical therapy. But then I fell out of it. So I moved to Homeland Security and like studied computers and computer science.

[George Camel]

So why aren't you working in like cyber security making six figures. That industry is booming.

[Adam]

From everything I heard like in my senior year of college I figured that like it would make more sense to go into sales. But that's kind of like maybe that's what I'm not entirely sure what's like you know, life experience, kind of just like meets reality sort of thing.

[George Camel]

Okay, well the I think basic facts are your friends here going, okay, I'm making 850amonth. The average starting salary.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's what you, you can make less than that doing Instacart. You know, more than that doing Instacart.

[George Camel]

I don't know who told you that sales was the answer. Yes, sales is a great skill to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have, but if you're not good at it.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And, and I don't think doing door to door sales is your like ticket to this grand career in business. I think right now we need to get a full time stable job in the field that we graduated in. Even if that's not the full time long term thing. Just get it now, get out on your own. That's going to put some onus on you to figure this out in a different way.

[Adam]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And you have the, you have the degree. Could you go get a. I'm assuming the field of cybersecurity. I don't know what else is out there in the IT world. In the tech world.

[Adam]

Yeah, like, I mean, there's I T, there's cybersecurity, there's a whole.

[George Camel]

I would rather see you get an entry level IT job at this point than the door to door solar sales.

[Adam]

Okay. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And the product you're, you're pitching, Tom or Tim, I'm sorry, is very expensive. Right.

[George Camel]

So for people, it's like $30,000 for.

[Dr. John Deloney]

People to.

[Adam]

Take that off long term commitment.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Adam]

Of like 25 years. And unfortunately I don't have control over like if they actually end up putting it on their house. I just kind of, you know, set up the schedule sort of thing.

[George Camel]

Is that what you're paid to do right now? How are you making the 850? It's not commission.

[Adam]

Yeah. So it's commission. So if the person signs to put the panels on the roof, that's how I make money. And to tell the truth, so that 850 is also including like a, like a first sign on bonus. So like it would actually be significantly less.

[George Camel]

And it sounds like you're doing a lot of work for free, my man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How long have you been doing this?

[Adam]

Seven weeks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Adam]

I figured like, you know, it's like expected to be kind of like, you know, bad at the, at the job when you're only seven weeks into anything. Right, but the money's where I'm kind of like conflicted.

[George Camel]

Yeah, but if you're bad at a job that pays stable income, then you at least can eat. And right now you don't make enough to be on your own. And at 23 with a four year degree, you should be on your own.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And not have to borrow your parents car and stuff. You know what I mean? We're trying to be progressing towards something. And I think the field you're in, the way that this is being sold, I just don't see it being like extremely successful anytime soon. And so, yeah, I'm with George. I would probably just go get a job in what your field is and then start dreaming and thinking. But we need to start practicing adulthood more than we are right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282.

[George Camel]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And between clickbait headlines and confusing data, it's tough to know what's actually going on out there in the housing market. So we are here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So median home prices went up slightly last month to $430,000. And more homes are on the market, nearly 1 million, which is the highest since 2019. But in many areas it's still not enough to meet the buyer demand. Average 15 year fixed rate rose to 5.9% last month. It's still under 6. I don't know if that's still the case at this very moment. I just saw rates for 30 year went up to just over 7. So if you're financially ready, a small rate increase shouldn't hold you back. If it went up 0.2%, that's not the difference maker. So if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, head to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the show Notes. If you're listening on YouTube podcast, Zach is up next in Nashville, Tennessee, right down the road. What's going on? Zach?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi, how are you?

[George Camel]

Great, how are you?

[Christine]

I'm doing good.

[George Camel]

What's your question?

[Christine]

Yes, so I'm 22 years old. I'm currently making about 30 to $90,000 a month and I am trying to figure out when to make the jump into real estate because that's kind of where I want to take my end Goal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow. Zach, we just talked to a caller who makes $850 a month.

[George Camel]

Yeah, can you spare some change for our friends? What are you doing to make 30 to 90,000amonth?

[Dr. John Deloney]

What?

[Christine]

So primarily day trading, specifically the futures market.

[George Camel]

Okay. How did you learn about this? And are you using a platform? How does this all work?

[Christine]

Yes. So I've been like practicing for about three or four years now. And then I decided to my initial investment of $3,000 into an evaluation for a few prop firms.

[George Camel]

Yep.

[Christine]

And essentially you use their capital and then you normally get to keep anywhere from 70 to 90% of the profits that you make. And so I did that back in October and I was able to pay my student loans off by doing it. And I got a major in finance from Lipscomb. I graduated in December. And so I kind of decided that if I'm going to go all in on this, I might as well do it now and see where it took me.

[George Camel]

And how long have you been doing this?

[Christine]

So with the live funded accounts, since February or March.

[George Camel]

Okay. Which is using your own money?

[Christine]

No. So it's just the firms primarily at this point in time.

[George Camel]

So here's the question. If you're so good at this, why not use your own money?

[Christine]

Yes. So a lot of the times right now I don't have $150,000 that I want to invest in it. And I'm well aware of the risks. And if someone else is going to take on the risk for me, I was raised the Ramsey kid. So, you know, the less risk and the more success, then that's kind of where I was going with it.

[George Camel]

Okay, so what happens if you make a bad trade? You get kicked out of these prop firms, right?

[Christine]

Yes. So there are systems in place to where essentially I have certain, like, drawdowns that I can hit. And a lot of times with every single trade I take, I normally try and move the stop loss, which automatically sells me out of the market to break even. And so at that point it's. I don't want to say it's impossible to lose money by any means whatsoever, but like a bad day would be me breaking even or only losing about a thousand or two.

[George Camel]

Okay, how much money do you have now that is liquid?

[Christine]

About $50,000.

[George Camel]

What are you doing with the rest of this money?

[Christine]

So I had to pay off my student loans because I paid for my own college.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Christine]

And then I've been in the process of trying to move just somewhere else in Nashville. So that's taken up a Little bit, A little portion of it because it was like the first month last month and that whole thing. And then I tried to put away some for taxes because I have to do it. Obviously I get taxed after.

[George Camel]

And you're gonna get hammered with taxes if you're making 30 to 90,000amonth?

[Christine]

Yes, I have been. My godfather's a CPA, so he's been trying to inspire me with some words of wisdom and he was, he's been big like the 40 or 42%. Yes.

[George Camel]

Do you have any daily left?

[Rachel Cruz]

I do not know.

[George Camel]

Good. And that 50k, let's call that your emergency fund plus some.

[Christine]

Yeah, so I'll be like my emergency fund and then you know, like something else happens like with family or you know, I like to take care of the people around me, so.

[George Camel]

Okay. And what's your question today?

[Christine]

I am trying to figure out. So I've always wanted to get into real estate and so I'm trying to figure out when the best time would be to make that move and to start investing in real estate as well. Because the trading only takes me about maybe three or four hours a day. And so that's kind of where I'm missing out, I think.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And by real estate, for you to own properties for investment, for you to flip and make, make a spread investing.

[Christine]

And then I would try and do fix and flips when I could when I have the time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so you're wanting to buy and hold and put renters in is what you're thinking?

[Christine]

Oh, absolutely, yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Christine]

And obviously Middle Tennessee, it's not cheap right now, so it's kind of wondering.

[Rachel Cruz]

The best way to go with that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, with real estate we always say if you're going to go beyond your primary residence, you want to do it with cash. And so being able to buy own a home first. Well, ideally, yes. To have a primary residence before you go and start doing investment real estate. Yes. So that would be. That would probably be the. That would be my goal for you, Zach, honestly, would. To be to move out of your parents and get a place of your own and. And start working.

[Christine]

Renting.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Christine]

No, So I moved down here from college. My family is in another state.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, I got you. Okay.

[Christine]

So I've been renting and then I just signed another year long lease by myself.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I got you.

[George Camel]

What are your monthly expenses right now? All in?

[Christine]

Probably only about three or four at most. That's probably an expensive month.

[George Camel]

Okay, so let's call it four grand. So you're telling me if you make 30 grand, you set aside, let's say 40% of that. Right. So you'd still have about 15 grand left to just throw into savings accounts every single year. I mean, every single month.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, sir.

[George Camel]

So that you could save up a whole lot of money in a year. I mean, you could have a down payment ready in six months.

[Christine]

Ideally, yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So the real estate side of the investment portion is. It is great, but it's not for income producing. Right. It's more to hold, like you make money on that at the buy. And then when you end up selling with all the equity because you're holding it for so long. Right. I mean, decades.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Christine]

For more of a long term instead of short term.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. Yes, that's right. That's right. So. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's a great goal, but I, I think the first step for you, Zach, would be to get your, to own property yourself. Right. You know, for your primary residence before going and investing and getting a rental home and all of that. Because a lot of people do it the opposite way. But what you'll end up finding is you're not really going to make a, I mean, depending on the, the home. Obviously in the situation when you do that kind of investing, you're not making a ton of money. I think a lot of people have in their mind, I'm sure you wrote the numbers, you're a smart guy. But I think a lot of people in their minds have this like, oh, my gosh, I'm making so much passive income. But by the time, especially if you go take a loan out, which a lot of people do for investment real estate, you're having to pay the mortgage, you're having to pay, you know, fees. On top of that, you're having to pay, you know, everything it is to be a landlord for upkeep, all of it. And you're, you end up from a, from a net to gross standpoint with not a ton of cash. It's not like a big cash cow to have all of this, like in a residential market, having one or two of these. So I just want you going in eyes wide open, just knowing what you're getting yourself into and that it's not, I don't know, I just feel like I see stuff like this all the time on social media and why has WAVE done this? And I'm like, and it's not a bad thing. You know, I like diversification. I like having money in the market. I like having some Real estate, like, I think all of that's really good, but it's not this thing that's like, oh my gosh, it's gonna be making me a ton of money. If anything flips will, like, that's where we've actually seen, you know, from a short term perspective, actually see some pretty great returns because you're not needing to.

[George Camel]

Wait on the market to appreciate because it's been a little stagnant last few years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you can get some really crappy houses and fill and gut them if you know what you're doing. I mean, that's a whole other business.

[George Camel]

That takes a lot more work, buddy.

[Christine]

That'S willing to help me out to a certain extent. And so, but then I would, I mean, as of right now, depending on even, even in like Antioch, I might have to take out a loan for the initial part, but then I could pay it off by the time I flip it. So that was the other.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. So that's the, that's, that's the, that would be the wrong way to do it from Ramsey's standpoint because that's what ends up. That's how Dave actually ended up going broke as he borrowed on all these.

[George Camel]

Homes and go, well, I'll work out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then you get stuck and you're having to sell it quickly because you're like, oh my gosh, you know, we have to a. It's a flip and so we're needing to make a profit and you end up selling it for not as much as you want and then you end up not making the spread that you want and then it ends up going backwards and it's not good. So cash is everything and I would.

[George Camel]

Not count on this gravy train of day trading for too long. I would get out while you can when the getting's good. But just know this may not be a five year career, so I'd find something you can sink your teeth into with how smart you are. My man. Thanks for the call.

[Christine]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. More and more people are becoming aware of the need for mental and emotional health resources. But so many of those same people still say they avoid getting therapy due to the fear of judgment. I know because I've personally been there and I've sat with tons of hurting people over the years and a lot of them are scared to get, get help. Listen, when people won't get help, it doesn't just affect them, it impacts their families, their workplaces and their entire communities. The world is better when people are healthy. And whole. The world is better when you are healthy and whole. So if you're thinking about trying therapy, let's go through that fear of judgment and contact my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is a hundred percent online therapy. So it's affordable and convenient for your schedule. BetterHelp has a network of more than 30,000 licensed therapists with a wide range of specialties. And BetterHelp has over 10 years experience matching people with just the right therapist. So to get started, just fill out a short online survey and they'll match you up with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time. And switching is easy and it costs no extra money. Listen, we're all better with help. Visit betterhelp.com jelony to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. H E-L-P.com Deloney.

[George Camel]

From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships initiatives. I'm George Campbell joined by best selling author Rachel Cruz this hour. The number to call is 888-255-2225. We are here to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Sarah is going to kick us off in Jacksonville, Florida. What's going on, Sarah?

[Andrew]

Hi, I'm calling more to see if I can get some help figuring out how to help my dad. He is widowed and he's been scammed a couple of times in the past five years. And it' amount of money that he's lost, from what he told me, he was self employed in a pretty niche business and was recently pushed into retirement. The most recent scam.

[George Camel]

What do you mean pushed into retirement?

[Andrew]

The physical labor of his job was just far too much for him to sustain at his age. He's 65.

[George Camel]

Okay. Did he afford to retire?

[Andrew]

So the issue is he hadn't saved up a lot of retirement because growing up my mom was very sick with a very rare cancer and so a lot of the stuff that they were putting aside for their retirement ended up going toward her medical bills. So a lot of what it seems like he's lost from both of these scams were the only nest eggs he kind of had left.

[George Camel]

Oh, it's awful. What kind of scams were these?

[Andrew]

The first, it sounds like it was a romance scam.

[George Camel]

That was my fear.

[Andrew]

Yeah. The other one was crypto. And to be really frank and really clear, I understand like the crypto and some of the Stuff that he was trying to do. I think he also kind of got sucked into selling things on Amazon type scam because he is trying to take care of himself and he doesn't want to be a burden to my siblings and I, you know, he's made that really clear. And I think the effort was noble, although misguided.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. The intention was good, but the. Yeah, the execution was terrible.

[George Camel]

He kept turning to the next scheme to get him out of whatever mess he was in.

[Andrew]

Yeah. You know, this man has never gambled a day in his life. And recently I saw two Powerball tickets sitting on the table at his house. And, you know, he's also never carried credit card balances. And now he's telling me, like, he can't afford a two hour trip, you know, down to see his mother for Mother's Day.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So do you have any idea of where he is financially at all, Sarah? Like, do you know what he does have?

[Andrew]

He's not letting a lot on to my siblings and I, which is making that a little bit harder. I do know that the first scam was to the tune of 80 or 90,000. And he's only really. He took a home equity line of credit out on his home to be able to pay that off. And the next, the most recent crypto one, he's not giving our siblings a really clear answer on that.

[Rachel Cruz]

We.

[Andrew]

We've each heard him say different amounts.

[George Camel]

So is he asking for help?

[Andrew]

He's not.

[George Camel]

How did you find out about this?

[Andrew]

The very first one. And this happened, I want to say, 2020. And I remember specifically because I knew where I was when he called me and told me what had happened. But the more recent one, he also called, but was really sheepish about letting on that there was a problem.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Sarah, the only solution.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are you, Are you, Are you married?

[Andrew]

I am.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. How are you and your husband financially? Where are you guys at?

[Andrew]

We're working on our baby steps.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Yeah, it's great.

[Andrew]

So we're working on paying off a little bit of credit card debt, and I thankfully have pretty minimal student loans because I work at a university and most of my tuition has been free.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yep.

[Andrew]

Thank God. But.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And how old. How old are you guys? And how old is he?

[Andrew]

Dad is in his late 60s and we are in our late 30s.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Andrew]

The only thing that I can think that would be the fastest way to help him out of it, which sort of puts my husband and I in a bit of a predicament, is we're currently living in a house that he Owns that he bought with the intent to flip. Covid happened and we moved into it because, you know, our housing got turned upside down and we're paying him rent. But this would. The sale of this house would knock out a good majority of the heloc, but that doesn't take care of the unknown dollar amount of the rest of the debt that he's got going on, for sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And has he approached you with that idea or is it just you and your husband thinking through, gosh, this is an asset that dad has. And we've.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we've intended to buy this house from him and getting it inspected and looking at a lot of the things. It's in pretty sore condition and the neighborhood is not the absolute best. So thinking of our future and our.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, you may not want to.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we don't want to. So it's sort of a. Yeah, you know, we're.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you guys. I'm just thinking out loud here. Do you know how fast you guys can get out of debt, Consumer debt, you and your husband?

[Andrew]

We are aiming for December of this year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Really, really great.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. I. I don't know, George. I. I want to know your thoughts on this, but there's a part of me, Sarah, that he's not. I kind of want to separate your dad's situation and you and your husband's. You kind of have to make those two different things. Ideas in your head. And I think you and your husband need to make decisions on what's best for you guys. And it sounds like it's not a great house, you're probably not going to buy it long term. You may even want to get out of it soon. I don't know. But whatever you guys need, you make decisions based on that. And then if he raises a flag and says, hey, as the landlord of this home, the owner of this home, I need the money, so I have to sell this asset and you all just have to be ready if that's ever the case. But this whole idea of, like, I feel like we need to do this for him when he's not asking. Right. It starts to tangle the two families and two financial situations where I would want to keep them separate. And your heart is so great, Sarah. And I can only imagine he's such a wonderful. He sounds like such a wonderful man. And you're like, how are you going down this road, dad? Like, you know better than this. Right. It's almost so sad as a daughter to watch your dad make these decisions. Right. And so you're just heartbroken for him. But also, it's hard because you can't help people who aren't asking for help either. So. So I understand that you guys see a way out for him to a degree, of this home and everything. And that's very generous. And maybe that's in your spirit. And you're like, hey, we do want to offer this as an idea to him. And if you want to do that, that's. That's great. But. But also, he's. He's not raising his hand, you know what I mean? To do anything right now. So almost in one way, keeping the two situations separate in your mind, but knowing there's gonna be a crossover eventually. Cause it's his house, his name's on.

[George Camel]

The deed, and unless he's willing and open, it's gonna be hard to help him. It's like trying to help a brick wall. You're not gonna get very far. So, I mean, if he's willing to freeze his credit, cut up the cards, remove all these accounts, just remove anything in the path that could cause him. Him to cause further damage. Would be what I would do for my own dad.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And if he called the show, Sarah, and he was telling us this, we probably would say, sell the house and get your financial house. Right. I mean, that probably would be our advice to him. But he's not asking. Do you know what I'm like? So. So it is hard to give advice or thoughts to someone that.

[George Camel]

I mean, he's probably feeling a lot of shame and guilt and doesn't want to drag you into it, is my guess.

[Andrew]

Oh, he is.

[George Camel]

But if you can get him to open up and say, listen, dad, I'm not here to judge shame. We just want to help.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

In any way we can right now. We can't do that financially, but here's what we can do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But in my conscience, I know this asset is here. And if you need to sell it. Right. But you could give it as an.

[George Camel]

Option, but give them the out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Oh, it's awful, awful, awful.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[George Camel]

People ask me all the time. George, what's your number one money saving hack? I'm glad you asked. Nothing makes me happier than helping another frugal friend. So here's the hack. Get on a budget. Seriously, how are you supposed to save money if you don't know how much you're spending in the first place? And that's what makes the EveryDollar budgeting app a game changer. With EveryDollar, you'll get a clear picture of your spending and from there it's easy to see where you can get more intentional cut back and save more money. So how much money are we talking here? Well, the average EveryDollar budgeter frees up $395 in their first budget. That's the hack. And if you ask me, I think you're way above average and you'll save even more. So what are you doing still listening to me? Go download the EveryDollar app for free and start saving more money right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Foreign.

[George Camel]

If you enjoy the show, do us a quick favor. Hit the subscribe button wherever you're listening or watching. Leave a review, share it with a friend, click the button, word of mouth, send the text. It really means the world for us and it's the best marketing we could hope for and it really helps spread the word. Joseph is in Sacramento. Up next. How can we help you, Joseph?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, how we doing today?

[George Camel]

Wonderful. What's going on?

[Rachel Cruz]

I just had one. I had one quick question for you guys.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

I am 22 years old and I am looking to either keep my credit card in order to maintain a high credit score or just get rid of it altogether.

[George Camel]

Haha. What has caused you to have this either or scenario?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I've been listening to you guys for the last couple months and I went ahead and got rid of one of my credit cards and then I went to apply for a house to rent and they required three lines of.

[Adam]

Credit for three years.

[Rachel Cruz]

And it kinda made me want to keep a credit card for a little bit longer.

[George Camel]

They need three lines of credit in order to rent.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. This one place that we were looking at.

[George Camel]

Okay, one place. Have you tried, have you ever tried to say, hey, if I don't have a credit score, will I be able to rent?

[Adam]

Yeah, I tried to see if they.

[Rachel Cruz]

Could do some sort of manual underwriting, but I was able to get a cosigner for the place.

[George Camel]

Okay, and so where are you living now?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm renting right now for pretty cheap. And I am moving to the place that I was talking about in about a month.

[George Camel]

Okay, so once you're there, you're. Are you asking, should I maintain it beyond that?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[George Camel]

And for what purpose at that point?

[Rachel Cruz]

Just to maintain a high credit score and keep it for business purposes.

[George Camel]

As in to take out debt for a business.

[Rachel Cruz]

Just. Just to make transactions and to keep all my business expenses in one area.

[George Camel]

But I'm. What I'm trying to get at is that credit score is just saying, hey, lenders, you can trust me with debt. That's all it does. So you can make all the business transactions you want without a credit score and without a credit card. So what I'm trying to poke at is to see what is the real reason you want to keep this credit score. Because I think it's beyond just making renting an apartment easy.

[Christine]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, it might help me take out small debt and personal loans to help grow my business.

[George Camel]

Okay, this is where I go. I wholeheartedly disagree with that strategy. I believe that you can and should grow and run a business completely debt free, just using cash and business debit cards. Okay, so that's where we.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What business do you have, Joseph?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's landscaping.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, good for you. That's great.

[George Camel]

You've done it so far. All cash, no debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay, so what is stopping you from growing at the speed of cash at this point? Do you make enough profit to reinvest in the business, buy new equipment, make new hires, all of that? Is that your goal?

[Adam]

Yes, I.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, I do. Currently, I do not have any employees and I've downsized my business to just me to keep things simple.

[George Camel]

What is your end goal with the business?

[Rachel Cruz]

My end goal is to grow and have employees. But finding the right employees can be challenging.

[George Camel]

Okay, so it's really a hiring problem. It's not a debt or credit score problem.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, but I would like to, you know, have. Because you guys say that having no credit history and score, it makes things a little bit more challenging to.

[George Camel]

Well, in what way? Like tell me. If you're going to get a car, we tell you to pay cash for a reasonable used car. If you're going to buy a piece of equipment, I would say the same.

[Adam]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I've done that my whole life. But in. I was just thinking, if I want to buy a house. In the future, would it be easier for them to look at a credit score or do the manual underwriting?

[George Camel]

Easy is a debatable.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Say what? Easy would be a number, which is what caused so much of the disaster of people that keep a score. And the in the computer basically say, okay, yeah, we'll give this person hundreds of thousands of dollars and then they can't manage it. So easy isn't really, you know, probably the bar we're setting here.

[George Camel]

Americans have chosen the easy path and they're in crippling debt and the credit score is living rent free in their head and they're wondering why they aren't winning financially. And so I've done manual underwriting when I got my mortgage and then paid it off and it really, I thought there was going to be more hoops to jump through. It was verification of income, verification of rental history, and one line of trade like a utility bill or an insurance bill that was paid regularly. That plus a good down payment. They said, cool, that's it. I went, okay, sweet. So it's really not as difficult as people make it out to be. Our friends at Churchill Mortgage specialize in these types of no score loans. And other companies do it too. They're not the only ones. And so I tell that to say I wouldn't keep the credit score around just in case I wouldn't keep it around for the house. Because what happens is, Joseph, you're gonna go, well, I could buy that equipment now instead of saving up for it. And that will increase my business reven you by 2x. And then it doesn't. And now you have payments and you have all this equipment that's going down in value while you pay interest on it. And it causes people to actually struggle.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. They end up having to get out of their business that they started in the first place. Because some of these moves that they make, they just, they, they, they get too excited too fast and make decisions on, on a hopeful future that doesn't always pan out. And so just limiting your risk risk and living with such autonomy, Joseph, over your business, over your own personal money creates a lot of peace in your life. And I think for a lot of people, they overextend themselves because they're confident they know what they're doing or they're trying to work the system of the credit card game and the credit score. Right. Like all of this gyration and, and I'll just tell you from a financial standpoint, you're going to win with wealth faster, doing it the old fashioned way of just living debt free because you're gonna have way more money freed up to invest and build wealth. And then also the other end of all of this, Joseph, that we, that we talk a lot about on this show is just your mental state. Like the idea of having peace and like sleeping at night and not owing anyone anything. Like there's a level to that in your life that is huge that you can't put on a spreadsheet. Right. So there's an element of the holistic person that we look at when we talk about money and especially debt. And debt robs so much from us. Not just our income, but also our peace of mind. And so being able to be free from that and make your own decisions and, and it's going to cause you to grow slower, Joseph, which is very frustrating. And I'll just say here at Ramsey, like that's how we've done it. And there's things like the way that this business is, you know, there's multiple, you know, up to 12 P. Ls within the Ramsey, you know, under the umbrella, you know, there'll be a certain P and L. And we're trying to do a project and it's like, nope, we got to wait on this. And you're like, oh, I wish we could just do it today. You know, like you, we want to be urgent with things but it actually forces you to slow down and actually make wiser decisions long term from a business perspective. I believe so. Yep. That, that's our, that's our sales pitch to you, Joseph. But you, you're, you're an adult so you get to make your own decisions with it.

[George Camel]

So the question America wants answered, Joseph, what are you going to do next?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I think I might go ahead and just get rid of it. I still got to kind of weigh a couple options in my head. But I appreciate your guys time and some advice.

[George Camel]

Absolutely. What is your business revenue? I'm curious. So growth?

[Rachel Cruz]

I do $10,000 a month as a sole proprietor.

[George Camel]

Amazing. And what are you taking home out of that? A year. What's your gross income on your tax return?

[Rachel Cruz]

So currently I am not a contractor yet. I have my contractors test scheduled for this weekend. So right now It's. I'm a W2 employee with my business partner. But I've been talking to CPAs and I'm thinking I should be making $6,000 a month cash.

[George Camel]

Great.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good job.

[George Camel]

That's an amazing income at your age. And it tells me you're Doing a really good job with this business.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I'm doing what I can.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, it's great. Well done. And good luck on the test this weekend. That's exciting.

[George Camel]

That's big. I love this. This was a great call because I think it points out the bigger picture, which is when you stop caring about your credit score. What you're really saying is, I'm done with debt. It's not an option anymore. And therefore what am I going to do next? I'm going to do what grandma used to do and just save up and pay for things in cash. And if I didn't have the cash, I wouldn't do it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. You know what? That simple philosophy, George, would save people so much pain. Like we talked to so many people on this show and maybe you're listening or watching right now and it's just like they're just carrying this weight of debt.

[George Camel]

And when you take out the debt, life is there's probably a lot of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

People that are like, I wish I was Joseph and I was debt free. Don't, Joseph, don't could.

[George Camel]

Don't buy a zero turn mower with zero percent financing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don't get into it.

[George Camel]

Oh yeah, yeah. Is it an easier life? It's easier to live with peace and debt free freedom. Is it harder to save up and pay for things in cash? Absolutely. But I'll take that every day.

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[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, George, you don't know this, but there's an anniversary today.

[George Camel]

Whose? It's not yours. Yours?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, it's not mine. It's actually a milestone in our friendship anniversary that happened today. Three years ago.

[George Camel]

Okay, think, think, think. What happened three years ago?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you want to tell them, James?

[George Camel]

The year was 20. I'll give you a hand. It made a lot of people pretty mad at you. Wait, has it been that long since horse skate?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, it was three years ago today, and we're hosting together.

[George Camel]

Can you believe that's really special? So shout out to Kate.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Katie.

[George Camel]

Katie and her horse. Katie started all of this three years ago.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Katie called. For those of you that don't know. A lot of people do know this because it was a very popular call.

[George Camel]

Not in a good way popular, to make it sound. It was infamous, I think is the right way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Katie called. She's a horse girl. We all know about horse girls, right? They're very obsessive about their horses. They love their horses and their horses. They will keep their horses even if it doesn't make financial sense, even if.

[George Camel]

It causes them financial ruin.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So poor Katie was really not in a good spot. And we're wrapping up the call. The music's coming on, the segment's ending, and George is like, katie, you gotta sell your horse. You gotta sell the horse. That horse doesn't even know your name. Katie, sell the horse. And I was.

[George Camel]

Not a great impression of me, but flabbergasted. Rachel's face was the best part, because you represented what everyone was feeling in America.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The horse doesn't even know your name. And I thought, george Camel.

[George Camel]

Well, to be fair, I said, katie, Katie, I know this. Would you be willing to sell the horse? It was worth like $20,000. She told me. And she said, well, I've had it for 11 years. And it's like I said, katie, the horse doesn't even know your name. Sell the. And then we go to break. And so we had to come back and do some damage control.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know.

[George Camel]

We ended up becoming friends with Katie. She was very sweet.

[Dr. John Deloney]

She actually ended up coming to a live event in Indiana. We got to meet her in person. Anyways, it's an infamous call. And a lot of the people that follow the show closely, they know the call well. And they talk about George. George selling the telling.

[George Camel]

The anniversary of horse skate.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So you think that was something.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That horse skate happened three years ago. So anyways, thought I'd bring that up to you.

[George Camel]

I had not realized over a thousand days had gone by. I need a sign. Like thousand days has gone by since George was super mean.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Super mean to Katie.

[George Camel]

Yeah, poor Katie. I hope. I hope she's debt free by now. We got to check in with her. Where are they now? I'll send her a message and she'll give me an update. But goodness gracious, thank you for that. Shall we get to the news of the day?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, let's do it.

[George Camel]

Okay. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

This is a recent article from Yahoo. Liam Payne of One Direction died without a will, leaving a $32 million estate. Wow. Okay, so we've heard about celebrities dying without a will. Prince famously died without a will. And now his former partner, Cheryl Tweety, who's also the mother of a son, has been named one of the administrators.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not a princess of Leon.

[George Camel]

Yes. Yeah, it's a good point to make. So along with Cheryl, there's also a music industry lawyer, Richard Mark Bray was named as another administrator. And so now they've got to deal with this estate over in England and Wales and deal with the laws of the state and sit in courtrooms trying to figure out how to do this, all because Liam didn't have a will in place stating, here's the beneficiaries, here's the wishes, all of the things that go along with making a will. And it's really sad, especially, you know, he was 31.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know. He was so young.

[George Camel]

He died from this tragic accident in Buenos Aires.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Oh. It's a good reminder to everyone out there, Whether you have 32 million or $32 to your name, you need a will.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Wills are not for a certain level of wealth.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no. And, yeah. Get a state specific will. They're inexpensive. It takes a little bit of time, but just fill it out and talk about it. And it is really sad, George. I just feel like more and more we hear stories. And even in my own, you know, with my own personal friends, you know, there'll be family members that are in accidents or things. And, like, it's hard questions to kind of figure out, even from a health standpoint with someone. Right. If they are in a.

[George Camel]

In a health care power of attorney.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. All of that. Like, it's so doing all of that is such a, like beforehand before something happens that is such a gift to your family. It really is because the decisions are made. They're not having to sit and battle in court and pick through everything and think through everything. Like it's all laid out, it's all there. And it's just, it is the responsible thing. It's part of being an adult and taking care of it. So life insurance, a will, like all of these things are very, very important.

[George Camel]

It's not a baby step. It's a get the will done today. And so this is one of those areas as well where people think it's too heavy to deal with. Like I don't want to have these heavy questions, heavy conversations. So what I'll do is leave it for my grieving family to deal with. With on top of the loss, they now have to deal with this. And so it's really important to get done. And I did it online. We have a great partner. Mama Bear legal forms. You can head to ramseysolutions.com will and there's no lawyer fees, no fancy offices. You can just knock it out all online.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

With attorneys that are built by attorneys but without the price tag. So it's super inexpensive. It'll take you a little bit of time to answer these questions, but then it spits out the documents.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's pretty fast.

[George Camel]

You have it in place?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yep.

[George Camel]

So great reminder to everyone out there, get this done today. Let this be the wake up call. Oh, okay. Moving on to Anthony in Chicago. Anthony, welcome to the Ramsey show. How can we help?

[Rachel Cruz]

My question for you guys is how do I talk to my alpha father about being overwork and under compensated in.

[Adam]

Our commercial family business that consists of.

[Rachel Cruz]

Me, my mother and my younger brother. Brother.

[George Camel]

Wow. What kind of business is it?

[Rachel Cruz]

This is a child care business.

[George Camel]

And what's your role?

[Rachel Cruz]

Sometimes I struggle with even that question. I know I do pretty much everything. Everything. The teacher manager role, accounting work, maintenance.

[George Camel]

And what do you get paid?

[Rachel Cruz]

Right now I'm getting paid 28 hour. We, we have a pretty good center.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Adam]

Much maxed out.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's just like I've been working here.

[Adam]

I really gave my whole entire life.

[Rachel Cruz]

To this and I feel as if.

[Adam]

Like I'm living my parents life and.

[Rachel Cruz]

Not really fulfilling anything in my life.

[Adam]

I, I have a child even of my own now.

[George Camel]

And are you done with this business? Would you want to just go do something else or do you want to stay in the business but you feel like you should be more have More ownership and more compensation.

[Rachel Cruz]

I definitely feel like I should have more ownership and conversation and I've been in it so long that I feel like it'd be better for me to stay in it. But at the rate of how my, my peace and how it's affecting my mental, it's like I, I'm at a weird sin.

[Adam]

I'm, I don't really know what to do.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's kind of what I'm, what I'm calling you guys. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Is your, are you at the end of your rope because of the family dynamics are exhausting. The hours you're working are exhausting. The type of work you're doing is exhausting. What's like creating that, that gap for you?

[Adam]

It's really the type of work that.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm doing on top of the respect.

[George Camel]

Yeah. When you, you started the call by saying my alpha dad, what does the alpha term mean here? Is it just. He runs the show, he tells us what to do and we're not going to talk back back and make any tweaks. He's not there to listen to us.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, pretty much that.

[George Camel]

Okay. That's, I mean that's a sign of just poor leadership. If it wasn't your dad, you would say, man, this is a toxic boss.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Man.

[Rachel Cruz]

Literally. If it wasn't, I feel like if me and, you know, my, my brother weren't working, I don't understand how to, how it would.

[George Camel]

So here's, here's my takeaway. Anthony, if it robs you of your piece, it's not worth the paycheck check. It's that simple. I think we need to have a conversation with dad and say you're done. Cuz he's not going to change. It sounds like he's made that clear.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[George Camel]

And no amount of money is going to make this better.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. How old are you, Anthony?

[Rachel Cruz]

33 years old.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Yeah. I mean I, I, I would sit down probably with him, which would be very scary. It sounds like it's not going to.

[George Camel]

Be a fun con.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, it won't be. But I think as a man for you to say, you know, I don't know what has to change for you, Anthony, for you to be in a better spot. And I don't know if that's, hey, I, this is what I need in this work environment for me to stay or if there's nothing you need and you really just don't even want to stay, then I would give, I would give a notice and give a, a hefty notice to Say, hey, I, I'll work another 90 days here, here so I don't leave you guys in a pinch. But my, my time here is done. But I think giving some of that, having some of those conversations sooner than later is very respectful because it is a family business and you want to leave really, really well. But unless there's some a conversation about this is what has to change for me to stay. That's one conversation. Or Anthony, if you're thinking, I mean there's nothing that would change so I want to stay here, then I would have the, yeah, the conversation, the exit which is so hard. That's what makes family business so sticky. Is it so intertwined and it sometimes can hurt the relationship.

[Dave Ramsey]

These days the Internet is chock full of so called investing advice from random goobs with zero qualifications. Listen folks, you deserve guidance from someone who knows what the flip they're talking about. That's why I recommend the SmartVestor program. SmartVestors can help you find a professional financial advisor who can teach you to make your own best decisions with your own money. Get [e-mail] smartvestor again ramseysolutions.com smartvestor Ramsey.

[George Camel]

Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, you're wondering where your money's going. Your first step is getting on a budget. And our team is hosting a free budgeting training this month where you'll learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget using everydollar. Plus you'll get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q and A. So go sign up spots are limited and it's completely free. Go to everydollar.com webinar. Adam is in Atlanta. Up next, what's going on? Adam?

[Adam]

Hi there. How you doing?

[George Camel]

Great. How can we help?

[Adam]

Hey, yeah, so I'm calling, I am a disabled veteran. I have a spinal cord injury and a debilitating rare disease. So, so because of this I have a one. Oh, appreciate it. I have a one year old and a wife and I want to build wealth for our family. So I'm calling to ask for advice on how I could do that with a debilitating condition.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh my gosh, Adam. I guess is the debilitating condition what it like physically? Are you able to sit at a desk? Are you able to do any kind of work at all that's not physical or is it, is that almost nearly impossible?

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure.

[Adam]

I can explain as best I can. So it's a rare disease that most similar to multiple sclerosis.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, wow.

[Adam]

I cannot sit up straight in a chair for over five minutes before I'm in debilitating pain throughout my entire spine. I wake up with migraines, nausea, nerve pain. I'm in bed a lot.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow. I'm so sorry. Do you have disability?

[Adam]

I do. I got injured. You know, I'm only 32, so I got injured and got disability. I didn't have a lot of work experience dealing with that. So it's. I get about $852 a month from disability and that's.

[George Camel]

Is there any other income coming in?

[Adam]

Yeah, so I, I do get VA disability. I make. Let me pull that up over 5,000 from that. 5,600. So that's been very helpful. And, and then, and then my wife, she is a part time film editor and also gets paid as my caregiver. So we've been incredibly blessed with that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. And what does she make a month?

[Adam]

She makes, I would say a month, over 5,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so you guys are around.

[George Camel]

That is 11 grand.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, around 11 grand.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah. And the only other issue I have is so, because this is a very rare disease, doctors don't know how to treat me and I've had to go outside of conditional, you know, regular medicine and I pay around 15 to 20 grand a month. I mean, I'm sorry, a year here just on my own medical treatment.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah.

[George Camel]

That's going to be a big part of your budget. Every month is just making sure that you set aside that amount to cover those things. That'll be an ongoing cost. Okay. And your question is, how can I build wealth?

[Adam]

Yeah. And so there's one more thing to explain. Again, another blessing of ours is I've been in, I got into the Tunnels to Towers program as a disabled veteran and they bought us land and are building us a property so we don't have to buy our own property, which is. God's been. Even though I'm very sick, God's been blessing us incredibly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[Adam]

So I'm trying to put away. Yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, no, I was going to say, yeah. There's a lot of upside to this for you guys, to your point and being in such a tragic situation. Yeah. Well, the good thing is, is your age, number one, is that you guys are still young. I mean, you, you have a lot of years to be investing and building wealth through that. And it may, you know, look different, you know, it may be one of those things. Unless your wife chooses, you know, to go more full time or chooses a different career path and starts making more money that you, you guys will probably have a somewhat consistent income. Income for a while. Right? I mean, nothing really is probably going to change majorly. Unless I'm missing something. And I guess she would be the only factor that if she decided to change something, you know, that could cause an increase in income. But, but even for that, and even with your medical, the fact that you could, I mean, if you guys just even invested. I know you pulled up the calculator, George, but just, you know, even a thousand dollars a month or whatever it looks like, then that does build wealth long term.

[George Camel]

Yeah, we, we always say that your greatest wealth building tool is your income. And even though you're not working, you guys have a great income. And so that's the key is how much of that can we live off of versus invest? And so if. Do you guys have any debt right now?

[Adam]

No, we don't.

[George Camel]

Great. And you have an emergency fund saved.

[Adam]

Yeah, 40,000.

[George Camel]

Amazing. So, you know, I'm crunching numbers here. What's that?

[Adam]

I was gonna say we also have another 20,000 that we've saved just for real estate or we're just not sure.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I mean, you can max out two Roth IRAs.

[Adam]

Now.

[George Camel]

VA disability income is an earned income, but because your wife has earned income, you can invest up to that amount. You know, so the max is 7,000 in both of those Roth IRAs, and you can do the spousal Roth IRA. So you could do that and max out at 14 grand for the year. Just kind of kickstart this. Do you guys have anything saved in retirement so far?

[Adam]

Yeah, actually. So I have a. We're in Vanguard and we have a personal advisor. We have about 150,000 in our assets in Vanguard.

[George Camel]

Just a taxable brokerage account, non retirement.

[Adam]

Or I have Roth traditional and just brokerage account for my wife and I.

[George Camel]

Great. Well, I mean, I can just show you with some numbers and stats what will happen. If you guys are 32, you got $150,000 saved already. And let's say you invest 1500 bucks a month. That's less than 15% of your income from what you shared. But let's say you invested 1500 total per month. At a 10% rate of return from 32 to 62, you'd have over 6 million.

[Adam]

Oh, wow.

[George Camel]

And even more conservatively, 8% still 3.8 million by 62.

[Adam]

Oh, okay.

[George Camel]

So really the key is you guys are building these habits now. Just keep it up, be consistent, keep putting money into the market. When the market's down, when the market's up, when you have a good month, a bad month, just keep investing no matter what, and you're going to be just fine as far as the wealth goes. Those so that, that'll allow you to focus on Adam and focus on, you know, raising your one year old and being present for your wife. And that's really the beauty of building wealth. It's not to just stack up cash. It's to create that impact, to leave a legacy and to stop letting money problems live in your head. Red free.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And with that, Adam, I think that does give you guys some cushion, especially with your, your health stuff that, you know, if you look up in two years and there's some treatment, you know, that costs a lot, you guys could potentially closet for a bit if you needed some extra cash. Right. To, to go and, and get that done. So it gives you a lot of margin and flexibility. But I think that consistency of investing for you guys is going to be your key. That's what's going to cause you guys to build wealth long term. But gosh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry about all the health stuff you guys are going through.

[George Camel]

I hope such a pray that there's just health care and tech advancements in the future. And so over the next few years and decades, you know, maybe there will be a trip treatment that can get you back to more mobility, less pain.

[Adam]

Yeah, I'm hoping so. I'm always hopeful, but otherwise I just keep pushing forward.

[Rachel Cruz]

So.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Well, thank you for your service.

[George Camel]

What a sacrifice.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. But you and your family, you guys sounds, yeah. Incredible. And that's it. I think it's, you know, it's, it's not exciting. Right. We've had some like, calls about crypto and, and like they ended up being scams and people lose money as their stuff. All these like, shiny things out there could make more. Yeah, all this stuff. But it's like, man, just investing 1500amonth. What that could get you from 32 to 62.

[George Camel]

Yeah, it's wild.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's pretty crazy.

[George Camel]

This is compound growth at its finest. Because if you look at the contributions of this, it's a little over half a million contributed over those 30 years. The growth alone was 3.2 million.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's crazy.

[George Camel]

So when people go, well, I can't save a million dollars. I'm going, you don't have to save a million dollars. You need to kick start the compound growth process where your money makes more money. And it starts when you're young and you just keep it going and keep it going. So what we found is most people's retirement accounts, 80 to 90% of the balance is compound growth. Only 10 to 20% was the money they put into it. So that's very encouraging for me, and it should be for you that you don't need to make a bajillion dollars. You don't need to put away a million dollars. You need to put away money now, today, tomorrow, whatever you have, whatever you can, can make it a little until you can do more. And that's going to build wealth over time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, that's right. And we always talk about investing 15% of your income into retirement. That's what this is. So that 15% is huge. And then once you pay off your home and you guys are on baby step seven, that's when you're able to up a lot of this, too. Yeah. Is that you can keep continuing to, to build that wealth, which is amazing. So thank you, Adam, for the call.

[George Camel]

Appreciate that. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Hey, what are you still doing here? You know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey network app, right? So you got to jump over there to continue watching. You can download it for free. Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey network. It's completely free, and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. So if you're watching on the app, you're in luck. But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you. So jump onto the app and let the fun continue. All right, Go on now. Don't make it weird. Okay, I, I, I got nowhere to go, so you need to go. Okay, bye bye now. All right, this is, it's getting weird over there, guys. What do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You think?