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- [00:06]
Sponsor/Announcer
Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.
- [00:15]
George Campbell
Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey network and the Fairwinds Credit union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by author Jade Warshaw. We are so excited that you're tuning in today. We're taking your calls at Triple 882-55-5225. Annie is going to kick us off in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Annie?
- [00:42]
Caller
Hey, how's it going?
- [00:44]
Sponsor/Announcer
Great.
- [00:44]
George Campbell
How can we help?
- [00:45]
Caller
All right. Yes, sir. I've been. I have a dilemma. There's a. I had an ex boyfriend years about five, six years ago, and we got motorcycles. I sold mine, but we co signed for each other and now I have. Yeah, right. But anyway, he hasn't made a payment. I don't care about my credit. But they keep calling and they're like, it's a binding contract. So my question is, what do I do? I haven't seen the bike in over four or five years. I don't know if he's alive or dead. And they've came to my house and checked, you know, it ain't there.
- [01:27]
George Campbell
They went to come repo it and it wasn't there.
- [01:29]
Caller
Yes.
- [01:30]
George Campbell
Yeah. Okay. Here's the bad news, Annie. It doesn't matter where that motorcycle is and it doesn't matter if he's dead. Dead or alive, you owe that debt. That's. That is exactly what co signing is. It's you taking on that debt because they don't trust him to pay. And I think they were wise.
- [01:46]
Jade Warshaw
How much is it?
- [01:46]
Caller
Okay, it's like about $10,000.
- [01:49]
Jade Warshaw
Yikes. And what about your bike? Have you since paid yours offer? What happened to one that. That you guys co signed together, that you. That you drove?
- [01:58]
Caller
Oh, I sold mine.
- [01:59]
Jade Warshaw
So yours has been gone.
- [02:00]
George Campbell
Where are you at financially? Do you have any other debts? Do you have money in savings?
- [02:05]
Caller
No, I don't have any money in savings. I've been retired for a year and I'm trying to go back to work right now. So I'm barely making my bills and I can't afford to make that.
- [02:17]
George Campbell
Where's your income coming from retirement? Like a 401k Social Security?
- [02:24]
Caller
No, I work. I work for TBC.
- [02:27]
George Campbell
So you have like a pension?
- [02:30]
Caller
Yes, sir. Evidently. Yes. Okay. Yeah.
- [02:34]
George Campbell
So what is your monthly income as it stands without you going to work?
- [02:38]
Caller
Like 1600.
- [02:40]
George Campbell
And what are your monthly bills add up to? More than 1600.
- [02:47]
Caller
Yes.
- [02:48]
George Campbell
Okay. So are you floating the gap with credit cards?
- [02:51]
Caller
No, actually, I'm married, so. Yeah, I got married. So that's how we do it together.
- [02:57]
Jade Warshaw
Okay, what's he make every single month?
- [03:01]
Caller
Probably about. Eighteen. About 3,000.
- [03:07]
Jade Warshaw
Okay. And I. I don't know. I'm guessing based on the way you're talking, but are you guys combined money or are you separate?
- [03:17]
Caller
I take care of the bills, and he just puts money in my account. So I take care of all the bills and he takes care of, like, his truck and stuff.
- [03:24]
Jade Warshaw
So you're separate for all intents and purposes. It doesn't sound like.
- [03:28]
George Campbell
Does he have savings?
- [03:31]
Caller
No.
- [03:31]
George Campbell
Okay, well, the best way to do this would be combining your money together to go. Okay, how are we going to make a plan to pay this old debt off?
- [03:42]
Caller
Mm.
- [03:42]
George Campbell
Now, I don't know if he's willing to do that. And it sounds like he doesn't have the ability because he's broke, too, and he's got a truck payment of his own.
- [03:51]
Caller
No, his truck is paid off.
- [03:52]
Jade Warshaw
Okay.
- [03:53]
Caller
We're trying to get him another truck. So I'm trying to go back to work because his truck is actually broke down and we're trying to fix it.
- [04:05]
George Campbell
So. Trying to pay for the repair or you about to go buy a brand new truck with payments? You don't have any money.
- [04:13]
Caller
Right, Right. Well, that's why I need to go to work is so that way we'll have more money on top of that. But his truck is old and he's. Well, he's trying to fix it, so I know that's what our goal is, to fix it.
- [04:24]
George Campbell
Well, I think work is a great place to go right now to make more money to get us out of all of this. And the motorcycle, this old motorcycle debt, that's just part of the bigger picture that we need to clean up. What other debts do you have?
- [04:38]
Caller
I have a couple of credit cards. My Debt's probably about 10,000.
- [04:47]
George Campbell
Well, you got 10,000 just on the motorcycle.
- [04:50]
Caller
No.
- [04:50]
No.
- [04:50]
Yeah, but I'm talking about. Yes, I guess you got 20,000. I guess 20. About 20,000.
- [04:55]
Jade Warshaw
Okay, so here's what I hear, and here's a couple of. I just want to bullet point this so that you have clear homework for tonight. First things first, is tonight, it's Friday night here. I know some of you might not listen to this till Monday, but I want you to go out either on a date or tell your husband tonight is date night at the house. And over dinner, I want you to say, I've really been thinking and I don't feel peace about our finances. I feel stress. I feel like we're disconnected. And I would really love for us to get aligned financially. I would love to be in a situation where what's yours is mine is and mine is yours. And that we really are a unit on this. And I want you to open up the lines of communication on that. Tonight's not the night to create a plan to pay off debt. Tonight is not the night to say it's time to sell a vehicle. Tonight is just the night to say, here's what I'm afraid of, here's what I've been feeling. And I would just like to have this intimacy with you where we're one on one with our, with our money. Right? For you in your own time. Until the next meeting that you're gonna have with your husband. I want you to start writing down debt. Here's all the debt. Here's all my money. And then the next meeting with him, I want you to go with him and say, I started writing things down. Here's what I started writing down. Slide it over there and say, is there anything you wanna add to this list? Cause I'm just trying to get my head around this, right? And keep that conversation going. That's thing one and thing two. And then you guys can start to get your head around this. We're gonna give you every dollar before you get off the phone. Because the truth is George and I can only talk to you for so long and you're gonna need something and someone to walk with you. And every dollar is gonna do that. It'll be like you have George in your pocket. And so that's the key to this. Every dollar is gonna ask questions about you, you're gonna answer it and then it's gonna tell you the next right step. And in this case, George was right. Money coming in, so income coming in, you getting another job, that's going to be so key. But then after you've done the budget, you're going to realize, are there some things that we can cut out? What percentage of our take home pay is, is our, our rent or our mortgage, right? You're going to see things that might need to shift and all that needs to be done together with your spouse. And I personally. Call us back. Like call us back and tell us how it goes. Because there's several steps to this. I would never want you to think it was a light switch that was supposed to happen in one conversation or in one phone call to our Show. So keep walking down the road. Don't get discouraged. There's gonna be several steps to this, but just take the next right step.
- [07:26]
Caller
So, so what's the answer? Even though I don't know where the bike is, haven't seen it in five.
- [07:31]
Jade Warshaw
Years, you gotta stack up the money. You have to at this point, assume it as your debt. Forget he ever even existed because your name is on it and legally that's all they see if they can't find him. Your name is on it and you will feel it. It will. If it doesn't get paid, your credit's gonna get des. It's going to keep you from doing the things you want to do. So add it to the list of debts. The best thing that you can do in this situation mentally and emotionally is say, you know what? This is a mistake I made. This was the part I played. Forget all about him because he's somewhere eating a sandwich. He is not thinking about you and he clearly doesn't care about, you know, clearly doesn't care about his finances. So you pay it. Don't spend another ounce of energy thinking about him because it's just wasted mental calories and emotional calories.
- [08:15]
George Campbell
And because the debt is, you know, six years old, they might be willing to settle. If you can scratch up $3,000 and call them, say, hey, listen, I don't know where this guy is, I don't know where the bike is, he's an ex. I'll give you three grand if you can call this debt paid in full and clear from your credit and move on with your life emotionally and financially. We're rooting for you, Annie. Hang on the line. We're going to get you hooked up with every dol.
- [09:01]
Sponsor/Announcer
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- [10:31]
George Campbell
Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. If you missed it, we had an awesome live stream that happened last night. Depending on when you're hearing this, you can go check it out and watch the Replay ramseysolutions.com live stream or just head to our YouTube channels. Jade and Dave just held court on stage and it was a wonderful time. So be sure to check that out. If you're looking to kick 2026 off with a bang. Laura is in Salt Lake City. What's going on? Laura?
- [10:58]
Caller
Hi. I'm just trying to figure out where I go from here. My, my husband and I, my husband's a contractor and I'm a stay at home mom. And we've owned our own business for 12 years. And in the last three years here's been partnering with his brother and just splitting profits 50 50. And I was okay with that until this recent year. We've got a job that's taking over a year and I do all the paperwork. So I do, I run the business side of it. And so I asked for this job if I could get like 5, 10% for me because I felt like it's a lot more because I've got workers comp and employees and subcontractors now with this year long job. And he said no, he doesn't feel comfortable doing that because this is where I got a little upset. He said, I'm a wife that helps out and doing a little bit of paperwork doesn't mean I get a covered business.
- [11:54]
Jade Warshaw
Like the full business as a whole. Or are you just trying to make, are you trying to get him to pull more salary, like payroll free?
- [12:00]
Caller
I mean this, no, I mean this job. Like we own our own business. It's a small business and we've been, we've been fine. And I technically own 49% of business. That's what it is on the people.
- [12:10]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah.
- [12:11]
Caller
But I do like 10% of it because I just do the paperwork. But I thought I was a business partner. Well, you are arguing about splitting 50, 50 with his brother for this big job. He said, no, we can't do that. You're just helping you're my wife and you're helping me out so I don't have to do the paperwork and I can spend more time with the family. And so, and I just, for the last 12 years I thought I was a business partner. And so I just, I think this.
- [12:43]
Jade Warshaw
Is, I think this is more about, I think this is more about the disappointment of how he views you versus like a money or like a business thing. At least that's what I'm hearing.
- [12:55]
George Campbell
You feel disrespected, belittled, like your work doesn't really matter.
- [13:00]
Caller
That's just that though, like I do when it's a twenty, thirty thousand dollar job and it's a few receipts and some hourly work, it's not a big deal to split it 50, 50. But I mean this profit's going to be about $200,000.
- [13:14]
George Campbell
So you want to cut the profits?
- [13:16]
Caller
I want to, I want a piece of profit because it's a lot more work for me to do. A $200,000 or are you paying?
- [13:26]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah. Do you receive a salary? Have you ever received a salary?
- [13:30]
Caller
No, it's not a salary. It's our business or partners.
- [13:33]
Jade Warshaw
So the question is, the question is on a job like that, I hear what you're saying, what you're saying is more emotional. I'm talking about on paper at this point. If they're 50, 50, are your brother, your brother, the brother and your husband, is that 50, 50 on paper or is it, you're a 50 50.
- [13:54]
Caller
His own business. And so they just have a deal that then when they do jobs together, they split the profit 50, 50.
- [14:02]
Jade Warshaw
Okay. So my, my thing is this. So you're saying in essence the profit should be split in thirds.
- [14:08]
Caller
And I, I don't think thirds because I'm, I'm not doing a third of the work. You just want 10% of the work, isn't that much? I asked for 5 to 10%.
- [14:17]
Jade Warshaw
So then the other question is this. Let's, let's just look at it as it is. Just take a motion out of it for a minute.
- [14:23]
Caller
Okay.
- [14:24]
Jade Warshaw
The brother, even though they're working on this and they're separate businesses, does the brother have somebody who does the paperwork for him on his side of the business and has all that, and then what, you know, he takes that. Do you see what I'm saying? Both businesses are probably set up similarly. So the other side of this conversation would have been for you to say, husband, if we're doing more work on this, shouldn't we be taking more of the Profit. Should this be a 60, 40 split with your brother? Or do you see what I'm saying?
- [14:54]
Caller
But because, you know, you're just a wife helping out.
- [14:59]
George Campbell
Okay, but did he say those words exactly? You're just a wife I'm trying to go after.
- [15:04]
Caller
I don't think he said. He said, you're my wife and you helped me out.
- [15:07]
George Campbell
Okay. I just want to know if he was on the phone. I feel like he would be like, no, no, here's what I said.
- [15:12]
Jade Warshaw
Because what I'm getting at is if the money's going into you guys pot, it's both of your money. And that's a whole other conversation if you guys don't view it that way, but it's both of your money. What I'm saying is, although what he said sounds disrespectful, I wasn't there, but it sounds disrespectful. There's two different conversations here. There's what's fair financially for you guys's business, not you and him separately, but the business. And then there's the conversation of how we treat each other with respect within our marriage. Does that make sense?
- [15:39]
Caller
Yeah.
- [15:40]
Jade Warshaw
So if the deal. If the deal with the businesses is it's a 50, 50 split, then that's that deal. Now, then there's a conversation of, well, honey, there's two of us on the payroll. It would benefit both of us possibly if you received a salary or if I in. If I received a salary. Now, if you're trying to split hairs and the salary would remain the same and you guys would just have your names on it differently. I do think that's splitting hairs. Are you following what I'm saying?
- [16:10]
Caller
I think so.
- [16:11]
Jade Warshaw
So it's like, so my husband and I own a business together. And this is true. If the. If. If Sam is profiting, if he takes $200,000 as profit on the business, right. Let's say I'm staying home with the kids. That's our money. It's our profit. Now, if I'm helping him out and I say, oh, the $200,000, it feels weird. That zero of that is, like, written in my name. I'd like for you to write 50 of it in my name. So you make 150 and I make 50, that's me splitting hairs because the 200 is going into our account anyway. Now, if I said, sam, I've been thinking, you know, you're working and I'm working. If there's room, I probably should take a salary too. And it's good for all of us. It's good for the business if we're making more and we can profit more into our pocket. So for the work I'm doing, maybe you can pay me, you know, $30,000 a year on top of your 200,000. That's a conversation to have based on the work.
- [17:03]
Caller
Yeah.
- [17:03]
Jade Warshaw
And it doesn't have anything to do with the other vendors.
- [17:06]
Caller
Yeah. It was, though. He asked. He's like, well, what if we do hourly? But the problem is it's a random phone call here and there, or it's, hey, can you pick up this. These supplies? Can you go grab the trailer? Can you go grab the cement? So it's just random thing. It's not a clock in, clock out thing I do. I just. I'm always on call doing it.
- [17:34]
Jade Warshaw
So it just sounds like there needs.
- [17:35]
Caller
To be a percentage.
- [17:37]
Jade Warshaw
It sounds like there needs to be. You guys need to figure out what that split is. And it sounds like it needs to be some sort of a set amount, some sort of a commission that you get for the work that you do that's set. And then there's a list of responsibilities that go along with the money that you earn in a month. So that could be anything from this business.
- [17:55]
Caller
This, that instead of a percentage. Because I asked for a percentage, and that's very huge.
- [18:00]
Jade Warshaw
I think percentage is confusing because, again, they're viewing it as entity versus entity. Your guys's business with the brother's business, you're not an entity. You're part of. Part of your business entity. So I think that's what caused the confusion. But if you're just like, hey, put me on the payroll. Let's figure out what that means. That's one conversation. I think that's great if you can afford.
- [18:20]
George Campbell
I think the other part we never ironed out is your life shifted. Right. When you stay at home. It wasn't the same as it was before.
- [18:29]
Caller
Yeah.
- [18:30]
George Campbell
But we never had a conversation about what this looks like now. And he views you as, well. She works with the biz on the business, but she's not pulling the weight that me and my brother are. Right.
- [18:40]
Caller
Yeah. And that's. That's where he said it. He said that as well.
- [18:44]
George Campbell
And we just never acknowledge that when you stayed at home because you guys, you know, are married and live together. It's easy to let those things slide. And I think we should have had a conversation going, hey, I know that this has been our business. It's going to shift now. My brother is going to be Stepping in to shoulder some of the weight of this and you will be more of an employee in the business. And here's how that's going to be laid out. Financially, I think it's just we need a reset.
- [19:06]
Caller
That's a conversation we never had.
- [19:08]
George Campbell
Exactly. And so maybe that turns into he pays you a salary or a part time hourly wage and you keep track of how much time you've spent on the business and that's what you're paid. I don't know what that looks like for you guys.
- [19:20]
Jade Warshaw
You also need to find out the other truth of that is if you weren't there to do the job, would he absorb those responsibilities or would he have to hire out? And that's a really good way to determine.
- [19:32]
George Campbell
And what would he have to pay for that person? Yeah, because if you don't want to do it anymore because you're fed up with it, then just say I'm not doing it. Doesn't change how much you get paid.
- [19:42]
Caller
I thought about that, but it just, it would hurt the business more.
- [19:45]
George Campbell
Exactly. It's sticking it to the man. You're sort of, you know, you're, you're hurting yourself in that regard.
- [19:51]
Caller
Yeah.
- [19:52]
George Campbell
Because if it's truly Yalls money and it goes into the same bank account and you're married, filing jointly, then you're really just hurting yourself to make a point. And I would rather you avoid that.
- [20:01]
Caller
I can't do that because then it would just. Yeah, yeah.
- [20:05]
George Campbell
Then a hard conversation is your next step. Laura, I wish you the best.
- [20:24]
Sponsor/Announcer
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- [21:40]
George Campbell
Michelle is in Vegas. Up next, what's Going on. Michelle, hi.
- [21:44]
Caller
Thanks for taking my call.
- [21:45]
I have a question with regards to cobra.
- [21:48]
So we've currently been on COBRA for about a year. We're going to be transitioning off in the next three to six months. I should have done this sooner, but I didn't. I'm looking at these alternative health sharing plans and just kind of curious what your thought is on those. When I compare what I'm paying for COBRA versus what a med share or health sharing plan would be.
- [22:10]
George Campbell
What are you paying for COBRA Right now?
- [22:14]
Caller
It's going from 1600 to 1700 and that's a family of four.
- [22:17]
George Campbell
Okay.
- [22:18]
Caller
And my, my son went away to college and I've got to pay for separate insurance for him because my plan doesn't cover him in Colorado.
- [22:27]
Jade Warshaw
Okay.
- [22:28]
George Campbell
And neither of you have insurance provided through your employer?
- [22:32]
Caller
Correct.
- [22:33]
George Campbell
Okay. And that's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future?
- [22:37]
Caller
I think.
- [22:38]
George Campbell
So what do you guys make a month?
- [22:41]
Caller
A month? Eight.
- [22:44]
George Campbell
Okay. This is a big chunk of your, your world paying for this health insurance, right? Well, there's a, there's a few options. One is the health sharing types and we have a great partnership with Christian Healthcare Ministries. That's one option you can look at that could make sense for you guys, depending on your situation. Another is just shopping the marketplace and we have another partner, Health Trust Financial. That's fantastic for that. That can help you save. And so you might find out, hey, it's actually not much more or it's less than we're paying right now, depending on your situation.
- [23:14]
Caller
Right.
- [23:15]
Jade Warshaw
Why? What would keep you from just shopping the marketplace? Because the, the truth is, if you pick one of those plans, it's going to be regulated. If for some reason a claim is denied, you can, you can fight it and there's somebody in your corner and there's regulations around it versus some of the others that don't have those protections. Like, I'm trying to understand what your values are around this. Is it the faith based thing? Is it the money?
- [23:40]
Caller
A little bit of everything. I'm looking at it where I've been paying, you know, $20,000 a year for insurance, plus another 3,000 when my son went away to school. And I know with some of these health sharing plans, it's going to be, you know, $500 a month plus a $12,000 deductible. But I'm looking at it where I'm like, why AM I spending $20,000 a year on insurance? That's okay, you know. You know, it's not great. It's okay. You still got copays and things like that. One of my sons just had a diagnosis where they don't cover the pills that they want him to take. And that's going to be, you know.
- [24:18]
If I don't go through the drug company that's going to be out of pocket $6,000.
- [24:22]
So I'm just, I think I'm frustrated and I'm just thinking what are the alternatives?
- [24:28]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah, I do think so. If you're considering this, one of the things that I would say could be a con to a health share is if you do have a chronic illness preexisting condition. Yeah. Pre existing condition health shares are good for you're healthy, you rarely go, you know, you agree with the whatever status it is that is faith based of the community or whatever it is. And yeah to get the lower payment that's helpful. But in your case I'm wondering because there is a preexisting condition.
- [24:59]
George Campbell
There is, there's some imminent health care needs. So I might shop Health Trust Financial and just see what they can find you in the marketplace. And then if you're hey I, I need another option. I would look into Christian Healthcare Ministries as an alternative.
- [25:12]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah. Because in your case, in your case if I put a claim through I want to know that it's going to be covered and I want to know that I can hold them to a standard in order to, to as close of a standard as as we can. We all know that insurance is not the funnest to navigate but I want to know that it's got some standards.
- [25:29]
Caller
Around it and I already know they're not going to pay for this drug. My health insurance is not going to pay for this drug.
- [25:37]
So I can go through Pfizer and.
- [25:40]
They'Ll give me a two year kind.
- [25:42]
Jade Warshaw
Of COVID as it you're talking about as it is on your COBRA coverage. Well but that could change if you shop the market and find the right plan for you.
- [25:52]
George Campbell
And do you think it would be best if you guys found an employer like one of you has a health insurance plan, would that be more beneficial?
- [26:01]
Caller
Possibly. I mean we don't really have any.
- [26:03]
Other bills like that's our house is paid for, we have investments and all that so that so you're in a.
- [26:09]
George Campbell
Good place financially but you're just sick of paying this astronomical rate.
- [26:13]
Caller
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:14]
Jade Warshaw
You know it's, that's actually a trend right now if you follow social media, it really is a big trend that people are tired of paying premiums And a lot of people are going to wild business like not having insurance coverage at all. And the truth is, George, you know this bankruptcy, one of the biggest causes of bankruptcy is medical debt. And so it's not something that you want to, you know, play around with. It's something you really want to do your research on. And the truth is no one likes paying a bill. No one likes paying a premium. It feels thankless. It feels like money going down a black hole. But when it, when it comes time that you need that coverage, you're like, oh, thank God I have it. It's a safety net.
- [26:55]
George Campbell
It's a transfer of risk. That's all insurance is. And right now it stinks to pay 20 grand a. But it would stink a whole lot more to have a $500,000 bill. And so.
- [27:05]
Jade Warshaw
And it doesn't take much.
- [27:06]
George Campbell
So I would not go without coverage for a single day. But I would start researching like my life depended on it through those options that I just gave you. Those are places I would start personally. Health Trust, financial.com to reach out to them. And I hope they can find you a great option that is cheaper than what you're paying now.
- [27:23]
Caller
Okay, I appreciate it.
- [27:24]
George Campbell
Best of luck. Michelle. The health care system is broken. I think that is a bipartisan, nonpartisan. Take it. We all know it sucks.
- [27:32]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah, it.
- [27:33]
George Campbell
Oh man. Let's go out to Danny in Wichita. What's going on? Danny? Danny, you with us?
- [27:42]
Caller
Yeah. Hello.
- [27:43]
George Campbell
Hey, what's going on?
- [27:45]
Caller
How you doing?
- [27:46]
George Campbell
Great. How can we help?
- [27:49]
Caller
Well, Colin, 50 years old, recently had a heart attack. I'm about $60,000 in debt. I've got about $18,000 or so in a old 401k plan from an employer. I don't have any savings at the moment. Just I make decent money.
- [28:18]
George Campbell
How much do you make?
- [28:20]
Caller
I make about $6,000 a month minimum. That kind of, that fluctuates to, you know, between 6, 7, 500. I drive a truck.
- [28:31]
Jade Warshaw
Is it just you?
- [28:33]
Caller
It's just. Well, I have a 17 year old son at home.
- [28:36]
Jade Warshaw
Okay.
- [28:37]
Caller
So it's just him and I. About $11,000 of that debt is because I. Yeah, I was in fair mode after this happened and I knew I needed to start cutting expenses because I was going to have medical bills coming in. I do have insurance, but still. So I got out of my apartment lease and found a cheaper place to live. I was paying 1300. I went down to $850 a month for rent.
- [29:03]
Jade Warshaw
Okay.
- [29:04]
Caller
That allowed me to get rid of a storage facility I was paying 140month on. $140 a month on.
- [29:11]
George Campbell
Okay, what's your question today? Just to make sure we can help you.
- [29:15]
Caller
Yeah. My question is, I know the baby steps. I know you know the debt snowball, the saving a thousand. But during the heart attack, they found that I have aortic aneurysm and a bicusette heart valve which is going to require surgery at some point. They don't know. It could be three months, could be three years. They just, they don't know. It's, it's, it's imminent though. My question is knowing that should I start stacking money and get to a certain point and then get onto the debt snowballing because obviously there's going to be some recovery time with that and not knowing exactly when that point for the surgery's gonna come.
- [29:53]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah. Danny, you're in storm mode right now. You've had a catastrophic event with this heart attack and you've got some things coming up on the burner. And if I were in your shoes, I'd do two things. I would call up my insurance and I would let. I would have a conversation about the things that are getting ready to happen, what will be covered. I would wanna know very clearly what's my out of pocket max for the year, what's my deductible? And that's. That is the amount of money that I would aim to save up. Because you know this like you know.
- [30:24]
George Campbell
Your money is going to fall. What's that number?
- [30:28]
Caller
My out of pocket individually is 9200. The deductible is 3000. And that, that's individual total is twice that. So 84. 18.
- [30:38]
Jade Warshaw
4.
- [30:39]
Caller
18,400. Family, which.
- [30:41]
Jade Warshaw
And then so 9200 for you. I'd save up $10,000. And then the next number you need to know is you need to find out what's the recovery time. So how much time am I going to miss from work? What's that equal up to? And that's your emergency fund that you want to save up. So calculate if it's going to be a three month recovery, calculate what that's going to be and save up that cash. And that's the best thing you can do. Knowledge is going to be power in this situation, my friend.
- [31:06]
George Campbell
And once you've got all that taken care of, you can push play on the steps and man, we're hoping that the surgery goes well and that you recover swiftly, my friend. Thanks for the call.
- [31:32]
Jade Warshaw
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- [31:33]
George Campbell
Peace with our money, our homes, our Schedules.
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Jade Warshaw
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George Campbell
Up for a coupon, enter a giveaway.
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Jade Warshaw
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- [31:50]
Caller
Sold by data brokers.
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Jade Warshaw
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George Campbell
You have worked so hard to find.
- [32:23]
Jade Warshaw
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- [32:25]
Caller
Now it's time to find peace with your digital life.
- [32:27]
Jade Warshaw
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- [32:54]
George Campbell
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- [33:29]
Jade Warshaw
Go watch the livestream we did last night. It'll show you guys exactly how to do it.
- [33:33]
George Campbell
Yeah, some great demos in there and kind of the principles behind it all. Yeah, Love it. All right, Jerry is in West Palm beach.
- [33:41]
Jade Warshaw
Up.
- [33:42]
George Campbell
What's going on, Jerry?
- [33:44]
Caller
Hey. How you guys doing?
- [33:45]
George Campbell
Good. What's going on with you?
- [33:47]
Caller
Doing good. I was just calling because my question is that my wife and I, we potentially can be out of debt by the end of this year, but she currently wants to move to a new apartment because of an ongoing road to issue. And the money that we would use to pay off debt would be used to purchase a new apartment. So I was calling to see if we should use that money to buy the apartment or to.
- [34:08]
George Campbell
Do you own the apartment you're in?
- [34:11]
Caller
No, we're currently renting, but that would Break the lease. Well, the lease doesn't end until November 31st. So we will use all the money that we would use to pay the debt out this year. It would have to be saved the entire year in order to pay for first, last and security towards the end.
- [34:27]
George Campbell
Of the year on a new apartment. You're not buying an apartment, just you're renting a different one.
- [34:31]
Caller
Yeah, yeah, we're just renting. We're on baby step two.
- [34:34]
Jade Warshaw
What is that number for first, last in security?
- [34:38]
Caller
Well, we're not sure yet. Here in Florida we estimate that for two one it'd probably be around 2,120, 200amonth.
- [34:47]
Jade Warshaw
So that's the first thing is finding out exactly what the numbers are to find out how it's going to affect your debt free journey. And getting real numbers around that versus guesstimates. I call it five grand that I can't do. Roaches.
- [35:04]
George Campbell
Yeah, I think that's a reasonable thing. Like, I don't want to live with a roach infestation. My big question is, why is the apartment not doing anything about it?
- [35:13]
Caller
Well, we have a pest control company that we use, but the efforts that they've been putting there haven't been working that well.
- [35:19]
George Campbell
No, we need like Ghostbusters in there.
- [35:20]
Jade Warshaw
Station in the entire apartment complex. Somebody coming to your thing, spraying the little twinkle.
- [35:25]
George Campbell
I want exterminator, Terminator, Ghostbusters, a Catholic priest waving something. I mean, I want everybody up in there.
- [35:30]
Jade Warshaw
The bomb where they cover the whole building with fabrics or cyst.
- [35:33]
George Campbell
Get what you have to get up in there to get the roaches out. And if they don't handle it, I think you have the right to fight them to get out of this lease without, without, you know, paying any fees.
- [35:43]
Caller
Well, the, the lease actually said that we're in charge of pest control.
- [35:46]
George Campbell
So you pay for pest control?
- [35:48]
Caller
Yeah, we pay for pest control.
- [35:49]
Jade Warshaw
And that's the problem. Do you see what I'm saying? If you're just your pest control, what you pay for is just going for your unit. But if the whole building has an infestation problem, you can spray till the cows come home in all your corners or. But they're going to keep coming down from the guy upstairs who, you know where it all started. So that, that, yeah, I'd be up and out of there. I'd sit with your wife and figure out what's it going to cost. Sometimes, you know, the baby steps, George, you know this. Sometimes it feels like two steps forward, a little step back, two steps forward, a Little step back, and it's just like that. But in this case, roaches.
- [36:24]
George Campbell
Yeah.
- [36:24]
Jade Warshaw
And it just can't happen.
- [36:25]
George Campbell
And the five grand, you're sort of just like, prepaying, you know, the first month, last month, the deposit, hopefully you get back. And so there's a little bit of the sunk cost upfront, but I think it's well worth it. And I would just try to make up for lost time. Once you guys are in that new apartment. Let's work twice as hard to get out of debt by the end of the year, regardless.
- [36:44]
Caller
All right, great. That's good advice. I appreciate it.
- [36:46]
George Campbell
I'd be good. I would also. Here's how much of a nerd I am. I would be uploading the lease agreement to ChatGPT to then act like my lawyer to tell me how to get out of this thing and see what they are responsible for. And so maybe that'll help, Jerry. I don't know. But, man, that's not a fun problem to deal with. And I'm with your wife on this one.
- [37:04]
Jade Warshaw
I have threatened to move before.
- [37:07]
George Campbell
Does that work?
- [37:08]
Jade Warshaw
I think Sam knows, because I've threatened to move over many things. But when we live in South Florida, we have what's called palmetto bugs, which is really just called a giant roach that can fly.
- [37:20]
George Campbell
Oh, I hate those.
- [37:23]
Jade Warshaw
People in the audience are like, girl, I know a palmetto bug can be, like, the size of the palm. They're big, and they. They. You can't get around it. Like, you could spray all day, but they like water. So if you're by the Glades or if you're by. If you have pipes in your house, they can come in your house. So basically, everywhere we've ever lived, I've threatened to move.
- [37:43]
George Campbell
All right? You just convinced me to never move to Florida. Thank you, Jade.
- [37:45]
Jade Warshaw
It's a reason not to.
- [37:46]
George Campbell
All right, Declan is in Pittsburgh. What's going on? Declan?
- [37:51]
Caller
Hey, guys.
- [37:52]
Thanks so much for taking my call.
- [37:53]
George Campbell
Sure. What's going on?
- [37:55]
Caller
I'm trying to decide if it makes the most sense to move out to California to live with my wife's grandmother and her special needs uncle, help take care of them and save some money in the process and knock out some more debt.
- [38:11]
Sponsor/Announcer
Wow.
- [38:12]
George Campbell
Is your wife going with you?
- [38:14]
Caller
Oh, okay.
- [38:16]
George Campbell
I was like, this is a solo adventure for Declan. Okay, so you're considering moving from Pittsburgh all the way across the country to California to save some money?
- [38:25]
Jade Warshaw
How can you save money moving to California? Help me understand that part.
- [38:29]
Caller
Yeah, exactly. It's kind of a Goldilocks situation. So my wife's grandmother has a really nice house that we'd be able to have our own section of the house. It's a large house.
- [38:40]
Jade Warshaw
How large?
- [38:43]
Caller
Like five bedrooms, three full baths. So we'd have two bedrooms and a whole living room to ourselves with the kids.
- [38:52]
George Campbell
Oh, you got kids?
- [38:53]
Jade Warshaw
How many kids?
- [38:54]
Caller
Two kids. Two and three month old. A two year old and a three month old.
- [38:58]
Jade Warshaw
What about the jobs? Help me understand the job situation.
- [39:02]
Caller
So I work full time, I'm fully remote, I make 80k a year and my wife is currently staying home. 80,000.
- [39:10]
George Campbell
And then you're gonna have additional jobs on top of this to take care of?
- [39:15]
Caller
Yes. So my wife would be able to be the full time caretaker for my uncle or for her uncle who's special needs. And he's just great. He just needs help with making food and little things like that. So we're. It's be easy for her to stay home and take care of him as well. So it's kind of a perfect situation there.
- [39:37]
Jade Warshaw
Does grandma or the uncle have any income to speak of?
- [39:42]
Caller
Yes.
- [39:43]
Okay. I know grandma has, Grandma's doing great and she has rental income that. From other properties that. Yeah, she's, she's doing just fine.
- [39:52]
Jade Warshaw
What about uncle?
- [39:54]
Caller
No, he's, he's fully disabled, so he doesn't work.
- [39:57]
Jade Warshaw
Does grandma pay for uncle's needs?
- [40:00]
Caller
Yes, fully.
- [40:01]
Jade Warshaw
Okay.
- [40:02]
Caller
But she doesn't want to have someone.
- [40:03]
George Campbell
Else instead of a caretaker that they'd hire, they were just like, yeah, let's have family do it and they can live for free. And that's the trade off.
- [40:10]
Caller
Exactly.
- [40:11]
George Campbell
Yeah.
- [40:11]
Jade Warshaw
I don't know about this.
- [40:12]
George Campbell
Also.
- [40:14]
Caller
Yeah, good.
- [40:17]
Jade Warshaw
Was this something that, was the request made or was this something that you guys had a hankering to do? Like, you know what?
- [40:24]
Caller
No, the question. Request was made everyone. We would love to go spend more time with our family in California, but they are looking for someone because their current caretaker is leaving and Uncle Danny is. He's kind of someone who needs someone who he knows and is comfortable with. And so they're asked if anyone in the family. No one else wanted to do it except we said we would.
- [40:48]
Jade Warshaw
Okay, so you want, you want to do this?
- [40:52]
Caller
Yeah, yeah, I think it would be. I think it'd be great to have some extra income. Spend, spend a while in California with some family and help me understand the extra income.
- [41:00]
Jade Warshaw
So. So help me. So right now you're making $80,000 a month. What's your, what do you pay on rent and housing right now?
- [41:07]
Caller
We have mortgage. We own a house. It's 1200amonth.
- [41:11]
Jade Warshaw
So 1200amonth for. Is that just a mortgage? Tell me. Living expenses, lighting, all that stuff. Utilities.
- [41:20]
Caller
We'Re looking at basically at the end of the month. We're breaking even. We're paying our minimums on debt, but we're not getting ahead.
- [41:28]
George Campbell
How much debt do you have?
- [41:30]
Caller
We have 45,000 in student loans.
- [41:32]
George Campbell
That's it?
- [41:34]
Caller
Yep, that's it.
- [41:35]
George Campbell
And you're breaking even?
- [41:38]
Caller
Yeah.
- [41:39]
George Campbell
Yeah. So something needs to change. I don't know if the move is the next step. I personally wouldn't do it to try to save money. If you just want to do it for the adventure of it and you think you can make it work, go for it. I don't think you're going to pay off debt much faster. Because of California's taxes.
- [41:54]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah.
- [41:55]
George Campbell
Have you factored that?
- [41:56]
Caller
Well, it's actually funny. I did a lot of research into the taxes and my bracket. We would be saving because we have a huge local income tax here. 2% local income tax. We would not be paying.
- [42:07]
George Campbell
Would you sell your house.
- [42:10]
Caller
If we sold our house?
- [42:11]
George Campbell
Yeah, you would sell your house.
- [42:12]
Jade Warshaw
And what would you make that?
- [42:15]
Caller
Probably 20,000 in equity.
- [42:17]
George Campbell
20 grand in equity? Well, then you got fees. You got moving costs with a 2 year old and a 3 month old. Dude, I got kids your age. I wouldn't do any of this.
- [42:26]
Jade Warshaw
I wouldn't do this either. I just wouldn't.
- [42:28]
George Campbell
I would pass for now and I would try to make more money and cut expenses, but this feels like a Hail Mary. I wish you the best with the decision, Declan. It's a big one.
- [42:45]
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- [43:29]
George Campbell
See boostmobile.comramsey for details. Welcome back to the Ramsey show and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Campbell, joined by best selling author Jade Warshaw. Her latest book, what no One Tells yous About Money launch this week and we have. It feels like birthday month. We're just celebrating all week, all month long. It's, it's a great book. So pick up a copy if you haven't already. Ramseysolutions.com Brian is in Bismarck, North Dakota. What's going on, Brian?
- [44:09]
Caller
Good afternoon. How are you guys?
- [44:10]
George Campbell
Great. How can we help?
- [44:12]
Caller
Hey.
- [44:13]
So my wife and I were just wondering if we are crazy for wanting to pay off our, our house before we have kids.
- [44:20]
George Campbell
Is it crazy? I mean, I wouldn't call you crazy. Wouldn't put you in the loony bin for it, but I also wouldn't recommend it.
- [44:27]
Jade Warshaw
Well, yeah. What's the timeline on this and how old are you?
- [44:31]
Caller
So my wife and I are both 22 years old and we're hoping to pay off our mortgage in about 20 to 24 months.
- [44:38]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah, I mean if it lines up with your timeline, who cares? That's totally personal.
- [44:42]
George Campbell
And can I tell you the honest truth? It could take you 24 months to get pregnant. So I wouldn't just wait to start trying until then.
- [44:50]
Jade Warshaw
Unless that was part of your plan all along and you're like, hey, we want to be married for a while before we have kids. I mean, what, what? It's a values conversation. So is this, is this a sacrifice in you guys eyes or are you just concerned with how other people are viewing.
- [45:08]
Caller
Is sort of a sacrifice. We were holding off on like going on trips and upgrading on cars in order to do this. But part of it is also we want to make sure that my wife can be a stay at home mom without me having to worry. And on top of that, I would like to switch jobs to something a little bit more controllable with the schedule and that would cause me to take a step back and pay.
- [45:35]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah, I mean like I said, it's totally values. My husband and I, when we were first married we figured out that we had a bunch of debt and the timeline on ours was. We knew it was a long horizon for us. It ended up taking seven and a half years to pay it off. The whole timeline in total was closer to nine years to be honest. And our choice was to wait. I would never put that on anybody else because ours was very extreme. Yours is not. But at the same time you want what you want. So if you say this is the type of stability we want, this is what we want our life to look like. When kids come on the scene, that's totally your choice. Nobody else has to understand that. But just know from a principal standard on our side, that is not part of the deal. You don't have to say we're going to postpone our family until XYZ is true with money.
- [46:25]
Caller
Okay.
- [46:25]
George Campbell
Yeah. There's no baby step for having kids. And I'll tell you, Brian, I. I lived your story. It just wasn't that intentional of like, we're not going to even try to have kids before we pay off the house. But my wife and I, we paid off our house in 26 months. And then when we did have a kid, she was able to stay home with. With less stress. So I think those steps will happen. I just don't think you need to use the house payoff as the excuse. But if you want to wait two years to have kids, do that and be paying off the mortgage early. But I don't think it needs to be this, like, we're not going to even try until the house is paid off. See what I'm saying?
- [46:58]
Caller
Right.
- [46:59]
Yeah, I get that.
- [47:01]
George Campbell
But I think you guys are going to get there regardless. And we need more parents like you, more fiscally responsible parents in the world. So I wish you the best with the house payoff and with, with having kids.
- [47:14]
Caller
All right, thank you.
- [47:15]
George Campbell
Glad we could settle the debate. Not crazy.
- [47:18]
Jade Warshaw
Not crazy. I. Listen, I wouldn't change that for the world on my end, but if we.
- [47:22]
George Campbell
Were like, hey, don't have kids until your baby step seven.
- [47:25]
Jade Warshaw
Oh, we can't say that. We can't say any of it to.
- [47:27]
George Campbell
Any population would decline. We can't have that population decline. Mike is in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Mike, what's your question? Great.
- [47:37]
Caller
Thanks for taking my call. My question is about accidental life insurance. Accidental death life insurance. I got a quote from, you know, somebody just kind of sent in the mail. The reason I'm questioning whether I need it or not is the premium is just so low that it almost seems like, why wouldn't I take it? I'm 60. My wife's 61. We make about 150,000 a year, have no debt. Net worth is about 1.8 houses paid for. It's about 400,000. The rest is in mutual funds, 401k IRAs, things like that. And plus some savings.
- [48:16]
Jade Warshaw
Do you have term life?
- [48:18]
Caller
I do. I'm sorry. Yeah. And I also have term life policy for both my wife, a smaller amount because she never worked. About 100,000. And I have about 3, 500,000 on myself. So again, I'm wondering, do I need. Again, this is such. What were you.
- [48:36]
Jade Warshaw
What were the numbers on it? What were you trying to. What's the amount of money, Money you're trying to obtain upon accidentally dying.
- [48:43]
George Campbell
Yeah, that's kind of how we all go. Not intentionally.
- [48:48]
Caller
Exactly. That's assuming the. If you die an airplane, it's $400,000, but the premium is only 20 bucks a month.
- [48:55]
Jade Warshaw
So what would happen if you upped? What if you upped your. I'm sorry, from 500 to 700. I'm sure it would be comparable, if not less.
- [49:05]
Caller
It's nice. It's not because I have looked at that. So again, in order to change my life insurance policies, upping it actually puts it into a different, you know, I'm kind of your age.
- [49:20]
George Campbell
Yeah.
- [49:21]
Caller
And so the term policy, even changing a little bit, makes it not affordable.
- [49:27]
George Campbell
Well, the truth is, accidental death insurance is a gimmick insurance, and we never recommend that. And I don't do it because it's a good deal and it's a low amount. The truth is you don't need it. If something happened to you, she's gonna have $500,000. If something happens to her, you got 100 grand plus all of your retirement money. So you guys are at the point where you could consider yourself self insured, right?
- [49:50]
Caller
Yeah, that's right. It's kind of in that balance right now. You know, I feel like I could be, you know, but I don't, I don't feel like enough to. Where I drop the life insurance.
- [49:59]
George Campbell
I would never tell you to drop, but how long do you have left on the term policies?
- [50:04]
Caller
Ten years.
- [50:06]
George Campbell
Ten years from now, your wealth has doubled, if not tripled, right?
- [50:11]
Caller
Possibly, yeah.
- [50:12]
George Campbell
I mean, just based on stock market returns and your income.
- [50:15]
Caller
Yeah.
- [50:15]
Jade Warshaw
And if something happened to you, would your wife be able to live on the nest eggs that you have? You've got the paid for house. You'd have, you know, over, you know, 3 million sitting in your 401ks. Do you think she'd be able to live off that?
- [50:30]
Caller
She would.
- [50:30]
Jade Warshaw
300,000 a year.
- [50:32]
Caller
Yeah, she would. And that's where the angst was coming in. It's like, it's just a small dollar amount. It's almost just a gamble. It's like gambling. You throw another quarter in there and see if it hits or not is why I was questioning it. But you almost, I guess you had me when you said it's a gimmick.
- [50:49]
Jade Warshaw
It is a gimmick. I mean, think about it like this. You could, you could like, let's go down this hole. You could play it like that. I would never recommend it, but it's kind of like what we say with things like crib crypto and single stocks. When you're, when your stuff is done right, you've done the baby steps, you've got extra. Those things are considered gambling. It's like play money at that point. But in this case, it just is. I mean, it's all. None of it's necessary, but it's just redundant. Yeah, you don't need it because then it's like, well, what if you get the accidental death and you don't get in a car accident and a hurricane doesn't land on right on your face? Like what? You don't get the money at that point. So it's at that point if I'm gonna throw away that kind of money, and I really am like, give me the $400,000. The better gamble would be to pay a little bit more on the term life and to do it like that. But really, once that policy's done, you're gonna let it lapse anyway, or you're gonna let it go anyway because you don't need it. So it's really, at this point, we're really just looking at it logically. And logically, it doesn't make sense.
- [51:46]
George Campbell
I would skip it and put that 20 bucks in a fun money line item and have some fun instead of freaking out. But man, how if your wife would be so mad if you died of natural causes after paying for this accidental life insurance for so long? Gosh, just pass peacefully in his sleep.
- [52:02]
Jade Warshaw
Roulette.
- [52:02]
George Campbell
Dang it, Mike. $100,000 was on the line. I hope you live a long life, Mike. I want to put that out there.
- [52:33]
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- [54:05]
George Campbell
Mary is in New York City. Up next. What's going on, Mary?
- [54:10]
Jade Warshaw
Hi, guys.
- [54:10]
Caller
Thanks for taking my call. How are you?
- [54:12]
Jade Warshaw
Sure.
- [54:12]
George Campbell
We're doing great.
- [54:14]
Caller
Good. I just have a question about how you would handle a situation when you disagree with your spouse about going into debt.
- [54:22]
Jade Warshaw
Tell us the. Tell us the tea. What's going on?
- [54:26]
Caller
So it's regarding our vehicles. We both drive paid off vehicles. I drive a 2022 Ford Expedition, which we bought used, went into a little bit of debt, but paid it off very quickly. My husband drives a 2019 Toyota 4Runner and has wanted a truck for a long time and is kind of done waiting. We've prioritized other financial goals for a long time, and now he just thinks he wants to go into debt to get it.
- [55:02]
Jade Warshaw
Why would you have to go into debt? What about. Well, let me ask a couple questions. You guys still have debt or everything's gone now?
- [55:09]
Caller
Everything's gone. We have a fully funded emergency fund. We have three kids, two of which have 529, so we're saving for their college. We fully fund our Roth IRAs every month.
- [55:23]
Jade Warshaw
Good. And so you're financially, you're financially responsible adults. Is that is what I would say? What. What is on fire that he needs to sacrifice all that you've built? I mean, can. Why, why can you guys not save up and pay cash for this truck?
- [55:40]
Caller
Yeah, I, I think we can. I think it would take some time to save up the difference between the trade and value, and then we've got some other money set aside.
- [55:48]
Jade Warshaw
How long would it take our.
- [55:51]
Caller
I would say probably a year. Maybe less than that if we were working extra hard.
- [55:55]
George Campbell
Well, forget the trade in. What if you sold at private party and got five grand more for the four Runner and then use that towards the truck on top of your savings? So I would actually do some math and go, okay, what truck are we getting? Are we getting. Is it a used truck?
- [56:10]
Caller
It is, and it's about 55,000.
- [56:13]
George Campbell
Okay. And what could he sell 4Runner for private party?
- [56:17]
Caller
I would say probably about 30.
- [56:19]
George Campbell
Okay, so we have a $25,000 gap. How much could you guys put aside right now towards that savings goal? Every month?
- [56:27]
Caller
Every month? Probably between 1000 and 1500.
- [56:32]
George Campbell
Okay. So this is going to take longer than a year based on that math.
- [56:37]
Caller
Well, we've got another. We've got about 15. We've set it aside for our kit for our oldest daughter's vehicle, but that's about five or six years down the road. So we could use that. That' of our emergency fund. So we were thinking we could also use some of that cash to, to fund the car.
- [56:53]
George Campbell
And then you'd restart the. The car fund for her.
- [56:57]
Caller
Correct.
- [56:58]
George Campbell
Okay, that's reasonable. And then she'd all set a go working too, that, hey, if we put this much away every month, January or December of 2026, you can get the car.
- [57:09]
Jade Warshaw
I want to get to the bottom of him, though, because when you tell me this, Mary, I'm thinking everybody wants a brand new car tomorrow, right? Like, I'm looking out in the audience, do you want a car tomorrow? Do you want one? We all want a brand new car tomorrow. So, like, there's this adult part of us that says that's not the way the world works. And I, I personally consider it pretty, pretty abnormal, not in the Ramsey verse, but out in the world, pretty abnormal to say. And not only do I want a new car, a new to me car, but I could save to get it in a year. That's pretty spectacular. And I think that he needs to be brought back into, like, brought back down to earth to say most people would love a brand new car and could not afford to save up because they've got other debt, other, other things to worry about. They could not save up for it for a year. So it's almost like he's lost perspective on what you've accomplished and what it allows you to do that is so much different than the average American. Does that make sense?
- [58:11]
Caller
Yeah, I agree 100%. And I think that's why I'm calling, because this is just sort of a fork in the road and I'm kind of to the point where I'm like, okay, do we just do this? So he kind of.
- [58:24]
George Campbell
No, don't concede. Because here's the thing, okay. His brain is ahead of his bank account. It's that simple.
- [58:30]
Caller
Yeah.
- [58:30]
George Campbell
And so you need to say we worked our butts off to get out of debt. It is a value of both of us that we are not a family who goes into debt yet. We're done. That's an old us that is gone. That toddler raging inside of us, that instant gratification, that's. That's the past. We're not doing that in the future. We're adults. We've been thinking about a long time. Let's save for a long time. And so if he wants it faster, work harder, dude, go make more money, cut more expenses. That's the conversation to have tonight. I don't know if we can convince him. You don't get between a man and a truck.
- [59:04]
Jade Warshaw
I would. I would stand firm. There are very. Okay, this is. We're getting into marriage stuff here. So. George, there's very few things that. With Sam, I put. I, like, put my stake in. And I'm like, you know what? And I'll tell him ahead of time. This is something I don't think I'm gonna budge on. Like, we're gonna have this conversation a lot of times, like, Jade's like, hey.
- [59:23]
George Campbell
I'll have a comfy couch. Cause you'll be sleeping over there.
- [59:25]
Jade Warshaw
Yes. Especially, like, if I know. If I know I'm right and I'm talking. I always think I'm right. But when I really think I'm right, there are certain things that you have to say, you know what? And I think this would be one of those, Mary. That I would say, this is something that is very important to me. And I don't see myself rolling over on this anytime soon. And here's why. And I'd be getting firm. I'd be getting in my stance, just saying.
- [59:51]
Caller
Yeah. And I feel like I've done that. He thinks I'm a hypocrite because we went into debt to buy my vehicle against his will three years ago.
- [60:00]
Jade Warshaw
But was it against his will?
- [60:03]
Caller
No. No, it was not.
- [60:05]
Jade Warshaw
It was back when you were both stupid, right?
- [60:09]
Caller
Yeah.
- [60:09]
Jade Warshaw
And now you're both smart. Like, you gotta remind him of this. Be like, that was old us. We've transformed since then. We were both doing stupid stuff back then, but then we got smart. Why would we go back?
- [60:22]
George Campbell
I get to do it once, too. You know, it truly is just the toddler inside of us. And it's going, I want big twuck. And you're like, well, you can have big twuck one year from now. I want big twuck now. And it's like, okay, we can all throw our tantrum, but at some point, he has to realize that he has a family. He has a wife. It's not just him making stupid decisions. It affects other people in his life. Namely you right now.
- [60:44]
Caller
Yeah, I agree.
- [60:45]
George Campbell
So he's gonna have that truck, and it's gonna be so much sweeter when he walks in There and writes a check and walks away. And he actually owns that truck instead of being underwater on it or worrying about a payment. After you guys work so hard to get out of debt, now you're back in baby step two, stressed out with three kids. You guys have a lot of expenses coming up. Between college and cars.
- [61:06]
Jade Warshaw
He's got fatigue, sports. He's got. He's got.
- [61:08]
George Campbell
Is this a midlife crisis, Mary? Is he just done? He's like. How old is he?
- [61:13]
Caller
A little 37.
- [61:15]
Jade Warshaw
You know, I talk about this in the book. I'm gonna go to this real quick because. And I'm probably gonna. Let's go ahead and send them a copy. I don't know if he'll read it. Maybe he'll do the audio version. But I talk about this. It's this fatigue that sets in, and it makes you mad. It makes you angry. It's in the anger chapter. When you're making a good income. You've done so many things right, but you're still not at whatever you think the finish line should be. And there's just certain things that you think I deserve. That I work hard. I did this. And you look at the list of accomplishments, and you go, I deserve to have xyz. And in his mind, it's, I deserve to have this truck. And that is such a dangerous place to be that I deserve. Because it is just. We saw it with COVID when there was the revenge spending. Oh, yeah. We had to be locked up in our houses, and we couldn't see our families, and we had to wear a mask. And as a result, I'm gonna buy all the Lululemon that might be.
- [62:04]
George Campbell
I'm going to Italy.
- [62:05]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah, I'm going to Italy. And it is a. It's a natural response. So I'm not mad at your husband, but I do want to stop him from doing something that I think he's actually gonna regret, because then next thing you know, he's gonna be the one calling the show, talking about, I bought a truck. And next thing I know, I lose. I lost my job. My wife's mad at me. Right. So we're just trying to help him. I'll send you a copy of the book.
- [62:24]
George Campbell
What's your household income?
- [62:28]
Caller
Okay. Thank you.
- [62:29]
George Campbell
Hey, what's your household income, Mary? Before you go?
- [62:33]
Caller
About 170.
- [62:34]
George Campbell
Okay. And what's your car worth?
- [62:38]
Caller
Probably 55. We. We bought it for, I think, 60 back in 2023, when we had our third car.
- [62:46]
George Campbell
Well, here's. Here's what I want to throw out there our parameter around cars and things that go down in value, boats, motorcycles, whatever, is that it should add up to no more than half of your annual income. So the truth is you guys are going to have way too much car considering your income and your financial world. And so here's my compromise. He can have the truck now. If he goes out and gets a twenty five thousand dollar car and sells his four Runner, could we find a sweet truck?
- [63:10]
Caller
Suggested that.
- [63:12]
George Campbell
How much better are they five years later? Is the technology really that much better?
- [63:19]
Caller
I don't know. I don't really care about trucks.
- [63:21]
George Campbell
But he, yeah, well, he just wants the newest, shiniest thing I would say. Here's the compromise. We can use whatever cash we have now to get the truck that we can afford with that amount of money. And if we can't afford that, you want a nicer truck, we gotta wait and we have to make more money. It's way too much of our world to have $110,000 tied up up with things going down in value even when we make 170.
- [63:55]
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- [65:02]
George Campbell
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- [65:37]
Jade Warshaw
Okay, today's question comes from Jenna in Illinois. She says my Husband and I are in Baby Step 2 but are also in stork mode as we'll have our first baby in a few months. That's exciting. My question is, how do you deal with the pregnancy craving? This is not going where I thought it was. If I let myself, I would be building this baby on McDonald's french fries and Oreo cookies. So far I've done my best to limit those cravings and not let them take over, but this is not easy. Is it okay to splurge on a drive through french fry order once a week? The cravings really do get wild sometimes and the emotions, the emotional swing is crazy. Should I work on letting the cravings pass or can I splurge a little until they go away later in my pregnancy? Oh my gosh. I love this person.
- [66:25]
George Campbell
This is real. This is the real talk. This is not what I was. The real talk.
- [66:28]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah.
- [66:28]
George Campbell
Okay. What's your take, Jade?
- [66:30]
Jade Warshaw
I. Fight me in the comments if you must. You know, some of us pregnancy is one of those once in a lifetime, some of us twice in a lifetime, four times in a lifetime thing. Go get some french fries for crying out loud. Please woman, go get the french fries. That's all I have to say on the matter. My sister told me this and she either told me this to make me feel better or maybe it is scientific, but if the baby asks for it, it's cause you need it.
- [66:56]
George Campbell
There you go.
- [66:56]
Jade Warshaw
You just need to have it.
- [66:57]
George Campbell
It's science.
- [66:58]
Jade Warshaw
It's science.
- [67:00]
George Campbell
All I know is this.
- [67:00]
Jade Warshaw
If you need energy, if you crave carbs or you need. It's telling your body something is what she told me.
- [67:06]
George Campbell
So pre dad George would be like, no, you stick to the plan no matter what. And then I had to deal with with a pregnant woman with cravings. I don't want to get in the middle of a pregnant woman and her craving. It is yes ma', am. I am on it. Now could you do sweet? You know what? I think she went the. I think she was salty. Salty like salty snacks. And then it switched to sweets with the our latest.
- [67:29]
Jade Warshaw
Can I tell you mine? If that Krispy Kreme light was on.
- [67:33]
George Campbell
The hot sign's on. You bet stop me better bet Jade's in that drive thru.
- [67:37]
Jade Warshaw
You could not stop me. You still can't stop me.
- [67:39]
George Campbell
I do think limiting it is good because it can turn into a habit and I would try to go hey, what cravings can we accomplish through shopping at the grocery store versus eating out? Because that's where it triples or quadruples?
- [67:52]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah.
- [67:52]
George Campbell
Cause that's the market.
- [67:53]
Jade Warshaw
A potato's a potato. I'm not asking you to have light ones in the air fryer.
- [67:58]
George Campbell
I was gonna say you can get now it's McDonald's. Fries are top tier. Their Diet Coke is top tier. If you know, you know.
- [68:03]
Jade Warshaw
Yours hits different.
- [68:04]
George Campbell
You can't get a Diet Coke from the store and it hit the same. That's just the truth. Ask any woman.
- [68:08]
Jade Warshaw
That's true.
- [68:09]
George Campbell
But are there. Can we get Oreos from the store? Sure. And that's a grocery line item. So if those are your cravings and you can grocery shop for them, I would say fair game.
- [68:18]
Jade Warshaw
How much is a McDonald's? Let's. You want to know what I would do to make you feel better? What's the math on it? How much is a McDonald's large fry?
- [68:26]
George Campbell
I would say, I don't know, three or four bucks. Probably five dollars.
- [68:30]
Jade Warshaw
Oh, God.
- [68:31]
George Campbell
This is like Price is Right. Two dollars.
- [68:33]
Jade Warshaw
Four dollars for last time.
- [68:34]
George Campbell
Yeah, I was going to say four bucks. Okay, so four bucks once a week, that's about, you know, you're talking 16 bucks a month. That's not 20 bucks a month after tax.
- [68:41]
Jade Warshaw
I would cut something else out of the budget in order to make this the priority.
- [68:46]
George Campbell
Put a cravings line item and set it for that $20amount.
- [68:50]
Jade Warshaw
That's right.
- [68:50]
George Campbell
And then you kind of have the permission to spend without guilt and without getting in a fight.
- [68:54]
Jade Warshaw
You could lower. Hypothetically, you could lower your grocery budget by 6. $16. Make it a million and just make a sub and just say, you know what? I will make this. I will make this happen.
- [69:05]
George Campbell
Sacrifice in another area so that you don't lose your progress.
- [69:08]
Jade Warshaw
Trade off.
- [69:08]
George Campbell
But there's not a lot you can do. And the thing with pregnancy cravings, they. They'll just switch. You're like, well, I just bought nine pounds of pickles, and now you hate pickles. You can't stand the smell of pickles. That's my life.
- [69:19]
Jade Warshaw
It does happen. And then what was Whitney's aversion?
- [69:22]
George Campbell
I wanna. I don't remember if it was coffee. Oh, the smell of coffee. She's gonna correct me. It's all a blur. When you have a pregnant wife.
- [69:30]
Jade Warshaw
It's.
- [69:30]
George Campbell
There's a lot going on. Especially when you got a toddler and the. And she's pregnant. You're surviving.
- [69:36]
Jade Warshaw
Yep, yep, yep.
- [69:37]
George Campbell
So no shade thrown at Jenna for wanting some fries once in a while. All right, Colton is in Huntsville up next. What's going on?
- [69:44]
Sponsor/Announcer
Colton?
- [69:45]
Caller
Hey, how are you doing?
- [69:46]
Sponsor/Announcer
Great.
- [69:47]
George Campbell
What's your question?
- [69:49]
Caller
So I retired from the military. I'm 38. Moved up to Huntsville, Alabama to take a sales job. After I tried some sales in Florida and figured I might be pretty good at this unique opportunity. And it's just door to door, cold calling all day, every day on churches, schools and businesses selling LED signs. Well, my first year I made about a hundred thousand dollars, so it was going pretty good. Well, now this year is my second full year and I've made about $502,000.
- [70:19]
George Campbell
Whoa, dude, you can sell some LED.
- [70:24]
Caller
Yeah. And my retirement's about 68, 000 a year, tax free. I don't have anything else set up. I mean, I've got health care the rest of my life.
- [70:36]
George Campbell
Yeah. Thank you for your service, by the way. And I'm glad you've transitioned into the workplace so effectively and spectacular.
- [70:46]
Caller
Yeah, well, yeah, it's been good. I like people I like.
- [70:50]
George Campbell
Now, was this just a random good year or is it. You're like, I could do this every year. This is consistent.
- [70:56]
Caller
Well, it's a unique situation because I'm basically also, in a roundabout way, operating as a COO of the whole company because it's just a unique situation with the way the business structured. So I. I grinded a lot harder than I did the first year. This year I probably won't stress myself out as much to hit this level because we're just not internally set up to handle this amount of work by myself because I have to go quote the job, sell the job, require the customer, see it, get installed, close it all out.
- [71:29]
Jade Warshaw
Can you hire. You have enough money? Can you hire an assistant? Can you.
- [71:34]
Caller
That's. That's been recommended. Now I've done a very good job delegating and paying people on the street. Decide to close things out so that I could move on to other jobs and, and other, you know, things like that. But I haven't thought about that yet. But I just. I wasn't set up. I didn't see it was going to happen this way. So I didn't have a LLC or anything set up. So he's just been. Because I'm a 1099 straight commission.
- [72:00]
George Campbell
Have you set aside money for taxes?
- [72:03]
Caller
Well, I've saved about 430 of the 502 that I've made this year.
- [72:08]
Jade Warshaw
My gosh. Okay, you don't need it. That's what's crazy about this.
- [72:13]
Caller
Yeah. So I've saved it just all out of fear of. I didn't know what my taxes were going to be.
- [72:17]
George Campbell
I didn't know you might have $150,000 tax bill. So I'd be on those quarterly estimated payments and, and not be shocked because you could get penalties and fees.
- [72:26]
Caller
An accountant and then a lawyer to set up an LLC so that this next year I start getting paid through the LLC, start itemizing. I got a 401k that I'm going to set up. I just, I owe about 280 on my house. It's worth probably 350. That's the only debt I have. No credit card debt.
- [72:44]
Jade Warshaw
So what's your question.
- [72:47]
Caller
Is do I just. My, I have this huge goal of not having a house payment and my. I guess my question is, do I take 70,000 and max out and put into the contribution my 401k to avoid taxes on that or do I just eat what my taxes are going to be, see where my money's at and pay the house off?
- [73:09]
Jade Warshaw
You. I would Invest up to 15% assuming you've got three to six months of, of expenses set aside. If you don't take some cash, set it aside, earmark it as an emergency fund. If I were you, I'd do six months. I would then make sure you're investing 15% once you get that 401k set up. That's, that's the magic number. You want 15% of your gross income, which.
- [73:32]
George Campbell
That's 75 grand if you made 500.
- [73:35]
Caller
Yeah, like I could max contribute this year. The way I've got set up is 70 grand. And I didn't know if I should do that or just pay the taxes. What I'm gonna take the hit that I'm. How old are you hit with? I'm 38.
- [73:49]
George Campbell
Okay. I mean you're basically front loading a new retirement fund right there with 70 grand. That's gonna, that's amazing. Now if you want to pay off.
- [73:57]
Caller
The house, the rest of my life is about 70 grand tax free. And then of course it goes up with inflation.
- [74:02]
George Campbell
Yeah. But if you wanted to pay off the house today and you just still have money left over to pay all your taxes and then we'll, you know, then you're really set up to build some serious wealth because if you keep making this money and you just invest most of it, you're going to have about 10 or $20 million at 6. At 60 years old.
- [74:20]
Caller
Yeah.
- [74:20]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah.
- [74:21]
Caller
And so that's, that's just kind of where I was at is I'd take that lump sum and go ahead and put it into a 401k to avoid paying taxes on it and get it invested it. Or do I just take the hit that I'm going to get hit on?
- [74:32]
George Campbell
Well, the good news is the house is going to get paid off. Yeah, it's going to get paid off fast regardless. I would get with your tax accountant and go, hey, what's my best tax saving strategy so I don't give the IRS more than I have to and any money left over, pay the taxes with and whatever's left after that, throw it at the mortgage and you'll pay off the house next year.
- [74:49]
Jade Warshaw
And Colton, good job. Well done, my guy, Sam.
- [75:24]
Caller
Foreign.
- [75:29]
George Campbell
Guys, we've been celebrating all week long. Jade Warshaw's new book, what no One Tells yous About Money is officially here. If you've ever known what to do with your money but still couldn't follow through, it's not a discipline problem. Your emotions are getting in the way. Frustration, fear, shame, anger, all of that shows up in how we handle money. And this book brings behavioral finance down to earth. And Jade and her husband have lived it and she unpacks it masterfully in a way that will grip you. You'll read this book in like two days max. It helps you understand what's really happening, gives you a practical approach to master those emotions that are sabotaging your money. You can get your copy for 24.99@ramseysolutions.com store. If you're on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description. Sarah is in Chicago. Up next, what's going on?
- [76:13]
Caller
Sarah hi. So I'm 23 and I graduated college in May of 25 and when I graduated I had two full time jobs making over 8,000 doll after taxes and lifestyle proof kind of hit me. So for my grad gift I bought a used push for 20,000 and then I moved to Chicago which doubled my living expenses. And then unexpectedly last month one of my jobs ended. It was a contract and so now I only have one job and I realized I could barely cover my bills with that job and so I stopped investing for my 401k which left me with a $200 buffer after. But then my student loan payment deferment period ended and so now I have a 500 monthly pay payment that just does not fit in my budget and I can't afford it. So.
- [77:00]
George Campbell
So now you're back in the red and like negative 300.
- [77:03]
Jade Warshaw
What's the income? 4,000. What did it go down to?
- [77:08]
Caller
So now after tacos I'm making like 4900.
- [77:11]
Jade Warshaw
Okay.
- [77:12]
Caller
And my basic budget is like 4700.
- [77:15]
Jade Warshaw
Okay. So what it sounds like happened, and it happens to the best of us. You got excited because you were, you were doing well, and I get it, but you kind of started doing things out of order. And so now what I think George and I are going to attempt to do is get you back on track in doing things in the proper order.
- [77:34]
George Campbell
We're going to right size, as they call it in the corporate world.
- [77:37]
Jade Warshaw
Right. Sizing. You were investing. It wasn't quite time to invest yet. You were buying a car, but it was time to pay off the student loans. It was kind of all jumbled up. So first off, the student loans, is that the only debt you have or is there other debt.
- [77:51]
Caller
Besides the car loan? Just those two.
- [77:53]
Jade Warshaw
Okay, so the student loans, you said about 500 bucks a month, but what's the, the, the full amount?
- [77:59]
Caller
It's 46,000.
- [78:00]
Jade Warshaw
Okay. And then the car, what's the full amount of that?
- [78:04]
Caller
20,000.
- [78:05]
Jade Warshaw
Okay. And there's nothing else? No credit cards, no medical? Nothing else?
- [78:10]
Caller
No. Nothing else.
- [78:11]
George Campbell
Okay.
- [78:11]
Jade Warshaw
Do you have any money saved?
- [78:14]
Caller
I have a 60k total. Like 40, 45 in investments in 20k or 15 in my emergency fund.
- [78:22]
Jade Warshaw
So $15,000 emergency fund. I love that you said that. So the way we would teach it, and remember, the point is to do this in the right order. If I were to tell you, oh, great, $15,000 saved in the, in the, in the face of debt, it's not really your money. Right. Because you owe 46,000 to one place and 20,000 to another. So is it fair to. To say that that's not actually yours? Yes. Yes. So what I would suggest you do, but it's also fair to say, well, I need a little bit of a, of a buffer, Jade. So that's the way the baby steps are set up. The first thing you need, you just need a thousand bucks. It's you. You just need a thousand bucks between you and the rest of the world so that if something comes up, you can deal with it without going into debt. So that's what I would do. I'd put a thousand dollars aside, and then that would leave you 14,000. And I would take that and I would throw it at this debt because the next step is for you to pay off your consumer debt. And so with that 14, you're going to come, you know, very, very close to knocking out the car. And then as you're paying off the debt, you're Going to work to increase your income so you can do it even faster. And then after the debt's gone now we can start to save up an emergency fund and it will actually be your money. It will actually be what it's intended to be, which is, is a safety net and a sense of security against all the things that might try to come at you versus what it is today, which is kind of just this nagging feeling that it's there but it's not really yours and there's the debt there. Let's. We're trying to solve for peace here. Yeah. How does that hit you?
- [79:57]
Caller
I've listened to you guys show for a while. So I know that you guys, you typically talk about doing like the $1,000 emergency fund, but it really scares me. I, I was a foster kid who like eight out of the system. So I don't have like there's nothing I can fall back on if, let's say I lose my other job. Like, I mean I can, I can go back to being a server or doing anything. Like I will never, you know, but it just really scared me to have nothing in savings, you know, like that really scares me. Like 1000 is like, like that rent is $2200. I can even pay my rent, you know, like that scares me.
- [80:26]
George Campbell
Here's the alternative though. It scares me to have you sitting with $66,000 of debt and it's going to take you forever to pay it off if you're the normal American. And so this is a scary move that makes you really, it lights a fire under you to get out of debt faster because right now you're kind of comfortable with the emergency fund. And comfort is the enemy of progress in this case. And so once you throw that at the debt, you're like oh, game on. Like we're in this thing. So do you have a bunch of student loans? Are they broken up or is it one giant loan?
- [80:57]
Caller
It's a bunch and some are. It's a bunch. Yeah.
- [81:00]
George Campbell
So you could probably knock out the 14k if you got smaller debts that are smaller than 20k. You could probably knock out a few student loans right there which frees up those payments, right?
- [81:10]
Caller
Yeah.
- [81:11]
George Campbell
Which could get you at least to a break even point. And then what is your rent every month?
- [81:17]
Caller
My rent is 2200 and there's a big problem.
- [81:20]
George Campbell
Are you living alone?
- [81:22]
Caller
I do okay.
- [81:24]
George Campbell
That's eating, that's eating your lunch right now. As far as your take home pay to rent ratio, it's 45%.
- [81:29]
Jade Warshaw
Is there a way to get a roommate.
- [81:33]
Caller
In my current living situation and I couldn't have a roommate, but I could, like when this lease ends, I could move somewhere else, but my lease isn't until October, so that's not like, helpful, you know. Until October.
- [81:48]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah. What about take picking up a second job?
- [81:52]
Caller
I'm super open. Like, I've been like, interviewing and stuff, but it's, you know, right after the holidays, people are anything but, you know, especially I work in tech. So it's just multiple interviews. It could take months. So it's just like nothing right now. But I'm open to like getting a serving job or something like that.
- [82:07]
Jade Warshaw
I would do that. I think I do that immediately until the job that you really want does open up. It's going to do. It's going to help out your budget, number one, but it's also going to help out your mental state because that feeling of, oh my gosh, I'm just barely making it, I don't have a job, I'm not making the income. You don't want that to persist. And so bringing in income, getting your budget right side up is really going to help you. It's going to help you perform better in the interviews. It's going to, you know, all of that is going to be affected by that. I want to send you a copy of the book because the fear that you were talking about earlier about being a foster kid, I talk, I talk in the book about fear of. The fear of doing a certain action can actually keep us, us in a more scary place. And George said that it's scarier to sit with $60,000 of debt. And it's almost like you're not able to see how scary that is because of this other fear that's operating over here that we can actually do something about. And so I want to walk you through that because this is so common and it makes a lot of sense. I have empathy for that and I want to validate like I. That makes total sense that you would be, you know, have that scarcity mentality in that way. But it doesn't mean that it's an excuse to stay that way. I think we can walk you through it because right now you're calling in the show, so you're up against it regardless. Right. So let's get you from. Against that wall and get you moving forward and not let that fear stop you from the progress that George and I both know that you can make.
- [83:35]
George Campbell
Are you living in the city, Sarah?
- [83:38]
Caller
Yes, I live like downtown.
- [83:39]
George Campbell
Okay. Do you need a car right now?
- [83:44]
Caller
I mean, in Chicago? No, you don't need a car. But I think I'm from, like, rural Illinois, so I'm just very used to having a car. I don't know how to not have a car. But, I mean, I think Chicago has great transit.
- [83:55]
George Campbell
Yeah, that's what I was going to say is, I mean, you could really get out of debt much faster. You take your 14, plus the Porsche is worth 20 at least. Yeah, that's pretty wild. That's half your debt gone right there. Oh, I would do that because here's the napkin math. If you don't sell the car, but you take the 14, apply it to your debt, leaves you with 52,000. Now, if you apply 1,000amonth, you're done in 52 months. You apply 2,000amonth, you're Done in 26 months. About two years. Right now, we don't even have a dollar to scratch together because of our budget. So that's where I'm just showing you the reality. If we stay the same, you are going to be in debt for a long time. If you decide to make some drastic changes, two years from now, you could be debt free. You make two grand a month. Take home from this other job where you sell the Porsche. Now we're making progress. That's the goal here. So hang on the line. We're going to send you Jade's new book. What no one tells you about money. We're rooting for you, Sarah. You got this. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw taking Your calls at 888. 825. 5225. Megan is in Virginia Beach. What's going on, Megan? How can we help today?
- [85:37]
Caller
Hey, thank you for having me.
- [85:39]
George Campbell
Absolutely.
- [85:40]
Caller
I need some advice, y'. All. And it really, it boils down to two things. The first is how to approach the conversation with my husband about the benefits of combining our finances. And the second is whether that's even appropriate. So to give you a little bit of context, my husband and I have been married for two years. I came into the marriage with a mortgage, about $280,000 in mortgage, but otherwise no debt. And he came to the marriage with close to $300,000 in student loan debt. Debt and no assets. And, you know, this is something that obviously we knew, we had talked about. And unfortunately, he was unemployed for the first year of our marriage and has since regained employment. He's doing well, but during this time our finances have been completely separate. He's gave some of the things actually that you talk about. I think he's got some emotional baggage that's tied to amount of student loan debt and he's concerned that should we combine finances, there's a possibility that the creditors may come after combined assets or they may try to adjust his payment schedule based on our combined income. And I think that those are all valid results. But some of the conversations I've had with him are, well, I think there's major benefit to combining our incomes because just the visibility, right. We would be on the same page. We would be able to plan for things together like retirement. We wouldn't have to have the conversation about who's got, who's going to pay for dinner on Friday night, who's picking up, you know, like stuff like that. And you know, he's making a little bit of money now. He hasn't started paying the student loan debt yet. Oh my gosh, it's a different story.
- [87:41]
Jade Warshaw
But what does he make and what do you make?
- [87:44]
Caller
Yeah, so I make about $140,000 a year and he makes about 130 right now.
- [87:53]
Jade Warshaw
Okay.
- [87:53]
Caller
But he owns his own business. So after all of the overhead, I think last year he took up, he took home about 40.
- [87:59]
Sponsor/Announcer
What?
- [88:00]
Jade Warshaw
Oh, so his income is only 40 is not 130k?
- [88:04]
Caller
Yeah.
- [88:05]
George Campbell
When you say took home, like on.
- [88:07]
Jade Warshaw
His taxes, his revenues were 130, but.
- [88:10]
George Campbell
His, his salary for expenses, he really made 40 according to the IRS.
- [88:15]
Jade Warshaw
Right, right.
- [88:15]
Caller
And so, you know, part of that is owning your own business. You know, we. He writes off a lot of things.
- [88:21]
George Campbell
What is his degree right now? What did he go to school for?
- [88:23]
Caller
I'm sorry.
- [88:26]
George Campbell
Lawyer.
- [88:27]
Jade Warshaw
And what kind of business does he do?
- [88:30]
Caller
He's got his own law practice.
- [88:31]
Jade Warshaw
Okay, how long, how long has he been at it?
- [88:35]
Caller
About five years.
- [88:38]
Jade Warshaw
And each year he's made 40,000 or less or more?
- [88:43]
Caller
Well, he. No, this year has been the best year.
- [88:48]
Jade Warshaw
But hey, let me ask you a question. Is he a good lawyer?
- [88:54]
Caller
He is. That's where I was going is that his earning potential is going to keep going and so can he go work.
- [89:02]
George Campbell
For someone else and make 50, 60, 70, 80k today?
- [89:06]
Caller
He can, but he won't.
- [89:07]
Jade Warshaw
Why not?
- [89:09]
Caller
He can't work for people.
- [89:11]
Jade Warshaw
Why?
- [89:12]
George Campbell
He doesn't play nice with others.
- [89:16]
Caller
Kinda. He's tried, but. But he's a really good lawyer.
- [89:21]
Jade Warshaw
Truly. Tell Ex. I. I need to understand that because if it's, if it's A real thing. It's a real thing. But if it's just a preference, then we have something that we actually need to talk about. Right?
- [89:36]
Caller
Yeah. So I've structured this conversation by saying, because I've brought this up before, you know, why don't you go to local law firm, abc, and yeah, you're going to have some taxes that are going to come or some payments that are expenses that are going to come out of your payroll. But at the end of the day, like, we can budget and we can start to get on the same page about these things. It's not like feast or famine.
- [90:00]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah. Building a business is different than just being good at the task that the business. Business does.
- [90:07]
Caller
Right? Yeah. And he. It's, it's a good question.
- [90:16]
George Campbell
And I'm just, we're looking at just basic napkin math going, if you make 40k, you're not going to pay off 300k. Yeah.
- [90:27]
Caller
And that's kind of what I've been struggling with. In addition to the conversation of combining our finances, here's the thing.
- [90:38]
Jade Warshaw
You married this guy. I'm going to try to shoot you straight here. You married this guy, so you are one today. You're one. The things that you're talking about, you could benefit from a counselor. It seems like there's some things that you're frustrated with, unhappy with, and you've had the conversations and it seems like it's to no avail. You could use a third party mediating between that so that you guys can come to a way that you discuss this and it actually makes progress. Because right now it feels like you, you've just hit a wall and you feel like it doesn't matter what I say. He's not listening. On, on the issue of him making 40,000 for the fifth year in his own law firm that's not really a law firm. Okay. Now, as for the combining of money, I do believe you need to combine your money because at that point we're talking about goals and a shared lifestyle, shared values. And so I think that's important to do. Is it that he doesn't want to combine or is it that you don't want to combine because of the things you listed earlier?
- [91:35]
Caller
No, actually, I've been a complete. I wanted to combine just because, you know, I married. I knew that he had the student loan debt, but at the end of the day, like you were saying, the goals and the values are much more important to me than, you know, other things that we can work through that I knew about.
- [91:52]
Jade Warshaw
Good.
- [91:55]
Caller
But he has Been hesitant to combine the finances because at some point he's going to have to start paying on student loan debt and he's concerned that his payment is going to be larger.
- [92:09]
Jade Warshaw
Because there's where the values are.
- [92:11]
George Campbell
Here's my thing. I think that's bs. I think this is all about pride and shame.
- [92:14]
Jade Warshaw
I think so too.
- [92:16]
George Campbell
And he doesn't want to drag you into his mess because he made it and he's a big man and he's going to take care of it.
- [92:20]
Jade Warshaw
It.
- [92:21]
George Campbell
I don't think this is about a restructured payment that he's worried about because.
- [92:24]
Jade Warshaw
If the goal is to pay the debt gum thing off, then the payment amount doesn't matter anyway because you'd be paying well above whatever they'd assign to you anyway. Right? Yeah. Right.
- [92:34]
Caller
Yeah. And I've always been. I think it's also kind of a differences in how we approach debt because I've always been aggressive when it comes to repayment, hence the no debt.
- [92:46]
Jade Warshaw
Well, this goes back to the goals and values part, which is if you combine. These are the things that you talk about over your. Your money meetings. You sit down with your spouse and you say, okay, you share here, here's where. Here's what I'm feeling. And I said told somebody this earlier today. You sit down and you say, you know what I've been feeling there's a disconnect with our money. I feel like this is an area that we really could work to be closer on and have more transparency and have more support for one another. I want to support you. I see the debt that is in your name and I want to help. I want us to be one on this. And I would love if we could get on the same page. That's the first conversation. And start to bring those walls down. That's why I said a mediator can help. And then we need to. Once you get on the same page of yeah, let's pay off the set now. It's how intense. How intense are we going to get?
- [93:36]
George Campbell
The byproduct is the budget. So I'll tell you, it's a lot easier to pay down 300,000 with 180,000 inc income instead of 40.
- [93:42]
Jade Warshaw
Right.
- [93:43]
George Campbell
And so you are the light at the end of this tunnel. You should convince them that this is our debt and we're going to pay it off together. And there's no shame here. Put it down. Let's get to work.
- [93:52]
Jade Warshaw
Send her a copy of the book, Christian, please. Thank you.
- [94:10]
Sponsor/Announcer
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- [95:19]
George Campbell
Alex is up next in Chicago. What's going on, Alex? What's your question today?
- [95:24]
Caller
Hi, guys. I'm just kind of calling to see if I can make a career change and become like an entrepreneur. Sure. In my foot, in life.
- [95:32]
George Campbell
Okay, tell us more. What are you doing now?
- [95:36]
Caller
I'm a heavy equipment operator. I make pretty good money. I'd say I made six figures last year, which I guess just ended a couple weeks ago. And that was my first year making that much money. So I kind of got a lot of life coming at me right now.
- [95:50]
Jade Warshaw
A hundred thousand or two hundred thousand?
- [95:53]
Caller
Yeah, a hundred thousand. Four thousand.
- [95:55]
George Campbell
Okay, way to go. And what, you said you had a lot of life coming at you. What does that mean?
- [96:00]
Caller
Yeah, so my, my daughter just turned one actually, New Year's Day. My other daughter is going to be born in April, and I just closed on a house.
- [96:11]
George Campbell
Whoa.
- [96:11]
Caller
Well, married in October of this year, so.
- [96:16]
Sponsor/Announcer
Okay.
- [96:18]
Jade Warshaw
Okay. So the question is, you're wanting to transition out of your job doing heavy equipment and to possibly starting your own business. What would the business be? The same thing you're doing now just on your own or something different?
- [96:31]
Caller
It'd probably be something pretty different. Honestly. I was looking at getting into real estate and I was talking to one of my buddies and he was saying that home inspectors make really good money. And that when he, it was specifically mobile home inspectors, he was looking at purchasing one. And he said that the only guy in the area was booked out for like a year. I was looking to transition into that.
- [96:55]
Jade Warshaw
So what's. I'm trying to get to the core of what's driving this is what's driving this. I don't like My current job and I'm just looking for something else that seems like it could be interesting is what's driving this. I need to make more money and this seems like something that could make me more money because it's not. I love mobile home inspecting, so let me go do that. Right. So what's driving this?
- [97:15]
Caller
Right. Well, I guess being dream of mine as well as like last year, like I said, I made good money but I worked a lot of hours and I just want to be able to be more present in my daughter's lives.
- [97:31]
Jade Warshaw
Okay, I see. So it's, it's, it's time is what you're trying to get back?
- [97:36]
Caller
Yeah, I guess. Yeah.
- [97:37]
Jade Warshaw
Okay. That's a good place to start and I think that's noble. I love that. Do you have any debt? No debt.
- [97:44]
Caller
No, I'm debt free.
- [97:45]
Jade Warshaw
Debt free. Getting, getting ready.
- [97:50]
George Campbell
Yeah. You got the mortgage. Is your, your soon to be wife. Fiance. Will she be working or is she going to stay home with the kids?
- [97:58]
Caller
She's, she's currently a stay at home mom and she probably won't be up until they go to school, I'd say at least.
- [98:04]
George Campbell
Okay.
- [98:05]
Caller
So probably about five or six years, you know.
- [98:08]
George Campbell
Okay. So what do you guys need to, to live and to accomplish your financial goals, could you live on? Because here's the thing, home inspectors, I just looked it up. The average salary is 55 to 62,000 a year. So I don't want you to jump into this and go, well, I'm going to be making more. I'll own my time, I'll be an entrepreneur. It may be a grind and you might need to own your own home inspection business long term to be making six figures.
- [98:34]
Jade Warshaw
And you might, yeah. And you might have to be an ex, like really, really good at it, which is brand new for you in that area. So there's, I feel like there's a huge curve there.
- [98:45]
George Campbell
So here's my question. I like to get the dock, you know, the boat close to the dock. So could you start to go through the training, education process, pass the exams, get licensed, if that's required and you know, maybe a year from now we revisit this and see if you're still into it and you want to pursue it.
- [99:02]
Jade Warshaw
It.
- [99:05]
Caller
Yeah, I don't see why I wouldn't be able to, you know, start the process now, but then go full time a year, you know, whatever the timeline is.
- [99:14]
Jade Warshaw
I'd actually take a step, I would. This is just me. Based on what I've heard you say I would take a step back. I would. I would do Ken Coleman's find the work you're wired to do and figure out what it really is that you would be wired to do that you'd be really good at, that you could go into business on your own, or that you could pursue as a different path, because this really does. And there might be more to it that you didn't say, but it kind of just sounds like, oh, here was an idea. I'll just go with that.
- [99:42]
George Campbell
Just a random buddy offhand. And now it's like, total career change.
- [99:46]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah. And before you sink time and money and effort, I would really explore your options. Nothing's on fire here. So you've got time to really narrow it down and go, you know, what do I want to do? What would I be good at? What would really light my fire? Because. Because long term, you're gonna want something that you're passionate about doing, so you actually stick with it. The money is not gonna be enough. The time thing won't even be enough to sustain you if it's not something that you really, really want to be doing. So that's what I would do if I were in your shoes. I would just drill down a little bit more on what that career needs to be.
- [100:19]
Caller
Okay.
- [100:20]
George Campbell
And I'd meet with some people who do home inspections for a living and get their take on the business and your area and what's going on where you can make good money. And what's the differ working for a company versus yourself? I would get all of that laid out and then decide from there. So we're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's Find the work you're wired to do. There's a get clear career assessment inside of that. So take that and use those results to then start to narrow down that next thing for you. If you know the heavy equipment life isn't for you.
- [100:50]
Caller
Okay. And then when would I know? Like, when I'm prepared to make that leap into becoming, you know, an entrepreneur.
- [100:57]
Jade Warshaw
It really is like George said earlier. So knowing that your wife is going to stay home, calculating what your mortgage is going to be. So there's a couple of principles I'd go by. Number one, your mortgage can't be any more than 25% of your take home. So that's going to be so, so, so key. Because for a lot of people, that's the make or break. So working backwards and say, here's what we think the mortgage is going to be, here's what we think it's going to take to operate our lifestyle and knowing exactly what that number is. So you say, okay, I need to be, I, I need to find a way that I'm doing the job I'm doing now while starting the new business. And slowly but surely that business is going to start making more and more money. So you're going to have a period where you're actually working more now.
- [101:38]
George Campbell
You're going to be juggling a lot. And then the goal is you go, okay, if I scale this home inspection stuff to full time, this is what I could realistically be making if I was doing this 40 hours a week instead of eight. So that's when you know, okay, I'm very clear. And you'll know it. You'll go, oh my gosh, I love this. I'm making good money doing it. If I left tomorrow, I know I've got enough, you know, leads in the pipeline and connections and work that I could leave this heavy equipment job and go do my own thing.
- [102:07]
Caller
Okay. Yeah, I guess my, my whole thing was like, I'm only 22, I'm pretty young, so I got like a lot of time where like now I could, you know, make a jump. I feel like before, it's like I'm solidified.
- [102:19]
George Campbell
I see a lot of the guys in the world, but making a jump with a pregnant wife and a 1 year old in a new home is not the time you wanna go eat, pray, love, and pursue your dream. Right now. You have a family to feed. We can't risk a drop in income.
- [102:32]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah. And to your point, you're 22, you have time. You have time, my friend. Do this the right way. Because what's gonna happen is when you start this, here's what could happen. You say, I'm just gonna make the leap. I'm just gonna jump. You get into it, you hate it, and you're not making any money and you're like, dang it, why did I do that jump? Whereas the way we're talking, it also allows you to get your feet wet and decide, do I like this? Is this right for me? You haven't let your big job go yet. Right? And you can make the choice and, and slowly decide versus I'm just gonna jump with both feet and you know, God will protect me. You don't want to do it that way.
- [103:08]
George Campbell
And Alex, we're also gonna send you a copy of Dave Ramsey's latest book, build a business you love love. And that'll help you on the entrepreneurship side to really get A clear picture of what this is going to take. How do I grow this thing and not just let it be a little side project and side hustle And I'm confident. Dude, you're 22. You're making $104,000. You're not scared of hard work. That's really the secret sauce of being an entrepreneur. People think, well, Jade, I want to be my own boss and work four hours a week.
- [103:35]
Jade Warshaw
You're going to work more than everybody else.
- [103:36]
George Campbell
Yeah, you, that is not entrepreneurship. You got sold a course and a lot of entrepreneurship is working 80 hours a week for six years just to get the thing off the ground to hope that you can sustain it and then it's still work from there. Ask Dave Ramsey. He's been at it for 30 plus years. Nothing about it is easy. Nothing about it is passive. If anything, it's more work. But it's rewarding if that's what you're wired to do. So explore it. I wish you the best and those books are going to be really helpful. Jay. Too many people, they. I like that he's at least thinking about this at 22. Too many people call us at 42 do. They're going, Hey, I hate what I've been doing for the last two decades and I'm burnt out, I'm fatigued. He's doing this from a place of strength right now.
- [104:16]
Jade Warshaw
Absolutely. And so time is on his side. I think one of the most dangerous things people can do is get rushed because when you're rushed, you get sloppy and when you get sloppy, you make mistakes. He's got time, and most of us do have time. We make it seem like, you know, we're backed against a corner, but we're not. There's options and there's time. Time. And we can take our time and do it right. Like the song says.
- [105:08]
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- [105:52]
George Campbell
Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and get a personalized plan made just for you. Simply head to the show notes of this episode and click on the link titled are you on Track with the baby steps and complete the quiz. Nicole is in St. Paul, Minnesota. Up next. Nicole, how are you today?
- [106:11]
Caller
Good.
- [106:11]
How are you?
- [106:12]
George Campbell
Great. How can Jade and I help?
- [106:15]
Caller
I have a question. I am a stay at home mom. I have been for over four years now, and I have just been hearing some stories of about stay at home moms being stay at home moms for 10 plus years. And then all of a sudden their husband's wanting a divorce and they have nothing. No financial, no credit cards in their name, no retirement accounts in their name. And I was like, oh, that's me. I don't want to be that person just in case, in however many years if something were to happen. And so I'm just wondering what steps I should be taking now to prepare myself financially.
- [106:54]
Jade Warshaw
How does your marriage feel today? Like, how do you feel about your marriage? Is it in a good place? Do you feel like you guys have been in a tough place?
- [107:02]
Caller
We've been in a tough place for probably over a year now.
- [107:07]
Jade Warshaw
Okay, so is that, am I right to say that that could affect how this conversation could go and his openness to the conversation?
- [107:20]
Caller
Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure. Honestly, I feel like I, I don't suspect that we would want to do that, like to get a divorce or.
- [107:31]
Jade Warshaw
Anything, but I mean, the conversation about you saying, essentially, hey, you know, I've been thinking about our money and I realized I, I kind of feel disconnected from it. And I've been disconnected from it of my own volition. I haven't paid attention. I haven't, you know, I've kind of let you handle that. And I'm realizing that wasn't the right place for me to. That wasn't the right stance for me to have on this. It's, it's, it's our life and I need to, it's almost like you putting the ball in your court and say, you know what? I, I need to kind of step up here. Right. I think that's a good way to approach it. How do you think he would receive that? Is he open to full transparency? Your name on everything along with mine? Yes, honey, you are the beneficiary on my 401k. See, right here, I'll show it to you. Like, is he open to that?
- [108:18]
Caller
Yeah, Yeah, I think so. I used to take care of our finances of like the budgeting and planning and all that, but then just more responsibilities got in my plate, so I gave that to him. And it's. And I do feel like if I were to bring it up to him, I'm like, hey, let's talk about all this. He'd be like, yeah, let's do it. Let's get you on that.
- [108:36]
Jade Warshaw
Oh, good.
- [108:38]
Caller
But I like a lot of hard time trusting that he'll follow through with that. And so I'm feeling like, like I, I will have to do it, if that makes sense.
- [108:46]
Jade Warshaw
Well, I think that's okay. If, I mean, I will say when it comes to money, there does tend to be certain spouses will take the lead, more so in certain areas. But as long as the transparency is there and both people want to participate and they're best in the areas they're best suited, I think that's okay. So if you have the conversation, he says yes, 100%. Here's the password. You know, if you want to pop in there and just check it, that's cool. Yeah, I think that's great. Now, as far as the. If the worst happened, right, Nobody, nobody plans a divorce. So if the worst happened, would you be protected? The first step is yes, I'm 50. 50 on everything. We do things in both of our names, but there's a lot of it that will go into the hands of the courts.
- [109:32]
George Campbell
And in most states, assets accumulated during marriage will be evenly divided. 50, 50. And you know, if you're a stay at home mom, there's going to be spousal support on top of child support. So unless he's a deadbeat, we've gotten these calls, so I'm not saying it's out of the ordinary. We get the calls, we're like, oh, yeah, he just doesn't pay and we can't find him.
- [109:50]
Jade Warshaw
We can't find him.
- [109:51]
George Campbell
Now. I hope that's not this guy. I hope he's an honorable man of integrity and character and takes care of his family, even if in the event of a divorce. But, you know, knowing where the money's at, the accounts, the debts, the passwords, the insurance, making sure that your wills are in place, these are things you should do anyway ways regardless of what's going on in your marriage. But I think that's wise. And being a joint owner on the accounts. Do you guys have a joint checking account?
- [110:15]
Caller
We do, yeah. We just said we have one. We have one bank account. Both of our names are on it, all of our savings accounts are there.
- [110:21]
Jade Warshaw
Good. Okay. All that stuff is going to help. And I don't even like talking about it in a way because I'm not trying to predict that for you, but I think for the most part, when we do get those calls about deadbeats. There were red flags. There were markers there that indicated that this person might end up being that type of person. And it doesn't sound like you have that. It sounds like you got spooked by something you heard. And it's kind of like, could you get in a car accident? Yeah, you could, but you're a safe driver. You wear your seatbelt. Do you see what I'm saying? And so what George and I are suggesting are all of those. Those normal precautions that you should take that are going to keep you safe. But I can't say that there's a 1000% guarantee that somebody couldn't turn out to be a deadbeat, if that makes sense. The good news is. The good news is you're a smart woman. If you needed to, you could land on your feet. And I believe that just by talking to you.
- [111:23]
Caller
Great.
- [111:23]
George Campbell
Is there. Is there hope that we're going to resolve this? Like, can you guys go to marriage counseling? Or is this like, hey, we just. This is a fork in the road, and. And it could go either way.
- [111:33]
Caller
I mean, we're doing marriage counseling currently. Good. And I think it's helping some. I think the big part is. I think that. Yeah. Like, the trust of feeling like I can depend on him in these really major things.
- [111:47]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah.
- [111:48]
George Campbell
Yeah. Rebuilding trust is. I mean, that's paramount. The whole relationship is built on that. When it's broken, I mean, it's crazy, because it takes forever to build, and you can break it in an instant, and then you got to rebuild. And so I'm sorry you guys are going through this. It's not a paranoid hypothetical in your life. This is a real concern, and you have a right to be worried. And then I would go do the things I can control. I would work on me. I'd work on my marriage. I would make sure that I have access to the accounts, that I'm a joint owner on, anything I can be. That I'm legally protected as far as wills and life insurance and beneficiaries. All of that is why.
- [112:24]
Jade Warshaw
Can I ask a question about the kids?
- [112:26]
Caller
Yeah.
- [112:27]
Jade Warshaw
How old are they?
- [112:30]
Caller
Four. Two and a half and two months.
- [112:32]
Jade Warshaw
If it made you feel better. And I'm not saying you need to do this. I'm just putting myself in your shoes. If I had true worry about the future of my marriage, like, truly, like, man, I don't know if we're gonna get out of this. There might be part of me that would start thinking if I were to work what would I be doing if I had to pick up a job? Just hypothetically, if I had to pick up a job, what would I do? What would that look like? Would I need a degree? Would I need money if I had. You know, having that conversation with your. With yourself could be a good thing. Again, I'm stepping very lightly because I'm not trying to. I don't. There's a difference in trying to plan for a disaster that you know is imminent versus just putting some bad juju out there, I guess, for lack of.
- [113:19]
George Campbell
A better word, like planning a new life. And you're sort of already living it.
- [113:22]
Jade Warshaw
In a sense, like, I'm not trying to. You see what I'm saying? But only you know where you're at in that relationship. And if you were at the point where it started being at. I just don't know. I don't know. That would. Only that would be the smart thing to do for you and your children and for him, too, because you want everybody to land on their feet. So I'll just throw that out there.
- [113:42]
George Campbell
Nicole, we're wishing you the best. I hope that there's healing and restoration in this marriage and that this is a thing you never have to deal with and just a thing that you had to think about for a little while. But it is a real concern. And those calls are heartbreaking. When she's like. I'm like, okay, what's your income? Well, yeah, you got divorced. What's the child support? The alimony? Oh, he doesn't. He hasn't paid. Yeah, courts ordered it. He just doesn't.
- [114:06]
Jade Warshaw
You have a deadbeat, somebody who hasn't been in the workforce for, you know, 15 years, like that sort of thing. It's tough. It's very tough.
- [114:12]
George Campbell
But I. I do think it's wise. And if you were working kids, you know, keep those skills sharp. There's nothing wrong with that. And maybe the kids. The marriage is great. The kids go to school, and you decide, I want to go back to work anyways.
- [114:23]
Jade Warshaw
Right, exactly.
- [114:25]
George Campbell
So, man, that's. That's tough. We always say that, you know, marriage. Marriage is grand. Divorce is 50 grand, and that it turns marriage into a business transaction. And that's really sad. But then it becomes, okay, who gets what. What accounts go where there, and it just kind of becomes this split, this chasm that you have to deal with. And, I mean, you got young kids in the mix, too, which just makes things way more complicated, and it's heartbreaking. So the best thing to do is prevent a Divorce and have a healthy, strong marriage, have the accountability and transparency. And that's why we recommend combining accounts. Then there's no surprises. You can't have financial infidelity. When she gets transaction alerts on everything thing I do, which is what we do in my family, I'm like, what did you spend?
- [115:09]
Jade Warshaw
Okay.
- [115:09]
George Campbell
I'd rather have that than. I didn't know you did that.
- [115:11]
Jade Warshaw
Oh, absolutely. I have every password. Every single one. Sam.
- [115:15]
George Campbell
Wara. Watch your back, bro.
- [115:16]
Jade Warshaw
Don't try it. He would never. He never would.
- [115:43]
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- [116:29]
George Campbell
Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 13:16. But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices, God is well pleased. Mark Twain said, do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest. True words. Deborah is in Dallas. Up next. What's going on, Deborah? How can we help?
- [116:51]
Caller
Yes, I was wondering. I wanted a prenup. I've never been married before. My fiance has. And I just feel like I've worked hard, I've saved. And I just want to know, is that a good way to protect myself in the event that something happens? Of course I don't want a divorce, but, you know, things happen. So just here to get some advice.
- [117:16]
Jade Warshaw
What's your net worth?
- [117:19]
Caller
It's about 600.
- [117:20]
Jade Warshaw
600,000?
- [117:22]
Caller
Yes.
- [117:22]
Jade Warshaw
How much of that is your home, and how much of it is it a business that you own?
- [117:27]
Caller
I don't own a home. I actually sold my home in the height of COVID and made like 130,000. And I put that in my IRA. So 330,000 is IRA. 120,000 is just my personal savings. And then I recently did an investment in a real estate property where I'm gonna make anywhere between 130 to 150 off of one flip.
- [117:52]
Jade Warshaw
Okay, and how much is the debt on that?
- [117:56]
Caller
The debt ON that is 310. But of course, I did a hard money loan, so once that loan is paid off, I pay that back and the profit from the sell the home will go to me again. It's estimated based off the appraisal of the home before I finish my flip, I would profit anywhere between 120 and 150,000.
- [118:14]
Jade Warshaw
Oh, that's a risky deal. Okay, that's a different call. Tell us about him. How long have you guys been dating and engaged for?
- [118:23]
Caller
We've been dating four years. We've been engaged almost a year. He was previously married for 20 plus years with two children. They are grown now. And he had to, of course, split his assets, his retirement. He had to sell their home. And of course, his net worth is as high as mine. And I'm just.
- [118:46]
Jade Warshaw
Does he have a lot of money?
- [118:49]
Caller
He did not, but he was kind of just left with, you know, not a lot after the divorce.
- [118:55]
George Campbell
Okay, what do you make and what does he make?
- [118:58]
Caller
We both make the same thing. I'm about 100 grand a year.
- [119:01]
Jade Warshaw
Okay. Okay. Does your family have a bunch of money? Is your family quite wealthy? Are you standing to inherit a bunch?
- [119:08]
Caller
No.
- [119:10]
George Campbell
Okay, so what's you think his net worth is? Maybe a few hundred grand.
- [119:14]
Caller
I don't even think it's bad.
- [119:15]
George Campbell
Okay, so the general. I'll tell you the general parameters around prenups. It's not a never and it's not an always. It's. If there is a huge discrepancy in net worth and in income, then it could be wise. And it's really to protect against crazy family versus. I don't trust this person. And I think it's going south now in your case, you know, 600,000. You've done very well, and I'm very proud of you. But the incomes are about the same. And it's not like you have 5 million and he's in crippling debt. And so I don't think the variance is so far that I'm like, oh, girl, you need to get a prenup yesterday. This is a. If you both feel like this is wise and you both feel like this is the move, you can do that.
- [119:57]
Caller
Well, he's against it.
- [119:59]
George Campbell
And why. Why is that? I like to know the heart behind why he's against.
- [120:03]
Caller
He just said that, you know, he's never asked me for anything, and he feels like that prenup is the doorway to saying, you know, we're going to be divorced. And I tried to explain to him that that's not the case. That, you know, while we're together, as things as we grow financially, we'll both, you know, benefit from what we have and what we grow Together. But in the event that something happens, I would like to maintain what I came into the relationship, which would be the. To my ira, my personal savings, and the rehabbing business that I started with the homes. But he just says he doesn't. He doesn't want to do it. He thinks that a prenup is saying, you know, we're going to get divorced.
- [120:47]
Jade Warshaw
How old are you guys?
- [120:49]
Caller
I am 45 and he's 53.
- [120:56]
Jade Warshaw
Have you brought this before a counselor or it's just been the two of you talking about?
- [121:01]
Caller
It's just been the two of us. We only had one conversation. I kind of left it alone because I was like, well, I guess we're not getting married. And he was like, well, I guess we're not. And I kind of just left it alone because I saw it was getting a little heated. I mean, it wasn't a heated conversation, but I could tell. Yeah. So I didn't. I haven't brought it up since, but I really, really wanted to.
- [121:23]
George Campbell
I'm trying to get underneath this to go how much of this is maybe the shame and baggage and trauma from his divorce and now it's sort of triggering all of that of like, well, you think I'm gonna go back to that? And, you know, he's sort of having to relive that.
- [121:37]
Caller
Yeah.
- [121:37]
George Campbell
Is that part of it?
- [121:41]
Caller
Yeah. He said that he was young when he got married the first time. And I was like, that's my point. We're not young anymore. So, you know, I look at this as a protection instead of a bad thing, like a safety net instead of a bad thing. But he just, he's just against it. And I don't know what to do.
- [121:58]
Jade Warshaw
Was he. Did he have come. Did he have fully comb money with his previous wife?
- [122:05]
Caller
They didn't have combined money. He just took care of the household, he took care of everything, paid all the bills, and she was free to willy nilly do whatever with her money.
- [122:15]
Jade Warshaw
I'd love to. I'd love for you to explore that more with him because it feels like, and I don't know, this is just a few minute call with you.
- [122:22]
George Campbell
We're strangers.
- [122:22]
Jade Warshaw
After four months, it almost feels like I could see him thinking, you know what? I don't want to do that again. I want to be fully combined. I want there to be trust. I don't want to be there. This business where I'm open over here and she's over there, and then if it goes our separate ways, I'm just left here. I could see I can see his side of it. I'll be honest, just given the numbers, I would not suggest it for you. I wouldn't say, yeah, you need it. I can understand your emotion around it specifically. Well, this is a second marriage, you know, is. Is there a chance that this could happen? You know what I mean? I could see your side of it too. I think there's a lot of emotion here to work through. Through. I would suggest working through it with, with a counselor, somebody who can see both sides and give you guys the language to express what's really going on at the heart of this. And I would say to both of you, if you were both on the line right now, I would just, I'm gonna just say this because this is what I would do. Pray for an open heart, both of you and say, let me be open to what they're saying because if either of you is coming into this very closed off, it's going to be hard. But if you can pray to be open minded and have an open heart and really seek to see the other person's heart on this, it's gonna, it's gonna help this come together. And I don't know where it's gonna land for you both, but I think that that could not hurt. It won't hurt the process.
- [123:40]
George Campbell
Okay, So I think that was one conversation. I would dig deeper and say, hey, I don't wanna let this stop us from getting married. I love you. I wanna spend the rest of my life with you. I just want to get to a place where we can understand each other. And maybe that means you do get a prenup. Maybe it means you don't get a prenup. But we have to align on this before moving forward. And time is of the essence. You know, I don't want this to drag on for three years of an engagement. Will they? Won't they over. Over this piece of paper? And it's also, you got to look at the laws. Maybe it's, hey, in Texas, only things that were acquired, you know, during the marriage get split. And so you might go, hey, even without the prenup, he's not going to touch my IRA from before we were married. Married, for example.
- [124:22]
Caller
Gotcha.
- [124:22]
George Campbell
So I'd also get clear on what the, the laws are because it may be a moot point and we fought over nothing.
- [124:28]
Caller
Gotcha.
- [124:29]
Okay.
- [124:30]
George Campbell
So I hope that helps. Thank you for the call.
- [124:32]
Caller
Thank you. Alrighty. Bye, guys.
- [124:34]
George Campbell
Bye. Oh, man, two calls in a row.
- [124:38]
Jade Warshaw
Yeah. You know what? I think I'm gonna go out On a limb here with social media, you see a lot more of people's stories. You can see other people's lives, lives, how it pans out. There's a lot of people telling you a lot and you, it's up to us to synthesize that and say like, how common in this is this? How real is this? Am I at risk? And I think we are just open up, opened up.
- [124:58]
George Campbell
You hear about way more cases that are crazy. You don't hear about the ones where they just split at 50, 50 and it was amicable and they walked away or whatever it is. And so that's the hard part. And I mean we, the previous call, they were going through some struggles and she was a stay at home mom wondering am I protected in the case of a divorce? And you got one that's on the post end of that of, hey, we found new love, but he's been divorced. And I want the prenup to protect what I've built. And that's another part of marriage is, are you aligned on the financial values and goals of. All right, he's not doing well with money, but I've done really well and therefore I don't want to hitch my wagon. Well, that's. That could be a red flag. Now I don't. That's not their case. Yes, he's doing really well. He makes great money. He's not in crippling debt. He just had life happen.
- [125:39]
Jade Warshaw
But the red flag goes going back to that it matters because you and I, we've taken tons of these calls and there's always something. There's that thing that you noticed and you ignored. And in this case, she's been with this guy four to five years. You know, you can see it. What are the red flags there? And if they are, listen to them. If they're not there, assume goodwill and assume, hey, this is a good guy. Even if it doesn't work out, we'll work it out.
- [126:02]
George Campbell
Absolutely. Hey, that's the end of this hour. But remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.