Crisis Doesn’t Wait for You to Get Your Financial Act Together

Summary

The Ramsey Show: "Crisis Doesn’t Wait for You to Get Your Financial Act Together"

Release Date: June 11, 2025
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-host: George Camel

Overview:
In this episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey and co-host George Camel delve into a variety of financial crises callers are facing. From ethical dilemmas in family finances to strategies for managing debt and making informed investment decisions, the episode offers comprehensive advice aimed at helping listeners regain control of their financial lives. Notable discussions include handling familial obligations that may lead to financial jeopardy, navigating debt collection lawsuits, and making prudent investment choices post-inheritance.

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1. Ethical Dilemmas in Family Finances

Caller: Sarah from Los Angeles
Timestamp: [00:50 – 08:12]

Situation:
Sarah seeks advice on her mother-in-law's plan to purchase a house in Sarah and her husband's names to shield her from IRS debts. They are currently living together in a rented home.

Key Points & Advice:

• Long-term Commitment: Dave Ramsey emphasizes that accepting such an arrangement ties Sarah and her husband to their mother-in-law indefinitely, potentially hindering her’s independence and the family’s financial stability.

  "This is a permanent solution to a temporary problem... your mother in law needs the dignity of building a sustainable life and working her way through the debt." ([05:31])

• Integrity and Ethics: Ramsey strongly advises against participating in what he perceives as deceptive practices to hide debts.

  "It's a lack of integrity. It's unethical." ([06:19])

• Alternative Solutions: Instead of purchasing a house, Ramsey suggests directly addressing and reducing the mother-in-law’s debt.

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2. Handling Debt Collection Lawsuits

Caller: Emily from Bristol, Virginia
Timestamp: [10:33 – 18:43]

Situation:
Emily is facing a lawsuit over $6,067.63 in credit card debt and seeks advice on avoiding court.

Key Points & Advice:

• Debt Settlement: Ramsey recommends negotiating a lump-sum payment, suggesting that debt buyers typically pay less for bad debt and may settle for a portion of the owed amount.

  "A debt buyer will buy bad debt... somewhere around $300 is what they paid for this. So our experience is that probably $1,500 cash will settle this." ([14:52])

• Negotiation Tactics: He advises being firm and emotionally detached during negotiations, keeping personal information private, and aiming for a settlement that is manageable.

  "You're dealing with the enemy here. This is a War. And they're good at what they do." ([16:53])

• Long-term Financial Health: Beyond settling the immediate debt, Ramsey underscores the importance of addressing underlying financial mismanagement to prevent recurring debt issues.

  "Your credit card debt lawsuit is not going to do it, because it's not the problem. It's the symptom." ([17:27])

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3. Tithing on Inherited Investments

Caller: Lori from Atlanta
Timestamp: [22:34 – 30:12]

Situation:
Lori inquires whether she should tithe on money she inherited, part of which she used to fund her daughter's college.

Key Points & Advice:

• Principle of Tithing: Ramsey outlines that tithing should be based on the net increase or the return on investment, not the principal amount.

  "You only tithe on the increase, technically speaking." ([25:49])

• Calculating Tithe: Using a hypothetical 12% return on a $44,000 investment growth, Lori is guided to tithe approximately $520.

  "And so 10% of 5,000 is 500 bucks. So, you would tithe. That's the math." ([27:12])

• Spiritual and Emotional Support: Emphasizes that the spirit of generosity is more important than the precise mathematical calculation, encouraging heartfelt giving.

  "Generosity is the answer... Your identity includes generosity." ([28:33])

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4. Saving for Fiancé’s Student Debt vs. Investing

Caller: Matthew from Atlanta
Timestamp: [32:34 – 34:16]

Situation:
Matthew plans to marry his fiance in two years. He has completed Baby Step Three and is considering whether to save for her $50,000 student debt or begin investing.

Key Points & Advice:

• Prioritizing Debt Repayment: Ramsey advises saving to pay off her debt as soon as possible after marriage to start their life debt-free.

  "You say for her debt... Why? So you can just the day you get home from the honeymoon, you pay it off." ([32:53])

• Annual Savings Goal: With Matthew saving approximately $1,500 monthly, Ramsey suggests that they are on track to accumulate nearly $15,000 annually, which will significantly reduce her debt burden over the two-year period.

  "You're bringing home 15 or 20k a month... You'll be millionaires in about 20 minutes." (paraphrased from Ramsey's enthusiasm for debt-free progress)

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5. Navigating Divorce and Financial Advisors

Caller: Courtney from Columbia, South Carolina
Timestamp: [34:16 – 41:01]

Situation:
Courtney is going through a divorce after 38 years of marriage. She is advised by her attorney to withdraw funds from her 403(b) retirement account to cover legal fees.

Key Points & Advice:

• Assessing Financial Needs: Ramsey questions the necessity of withdrawing large sums from retirement accounts due to the hefty taxes and penalties involved.

  "Every dollar we pull out of the 403 is going to have taxes on it, have a penalty on it." ([38:28])

• Living Within Means: He encourages Courtney to sustain herself using her pension and manage expenses without tapping into retirement funds unless absolutely necessary.

  "I want you to go get, create some income with your pension and live on that." ([38:48])

• Strategic Fund Allocation: Ramsey recommends setting aside a portion (e.g., $30,000) to handle immediate legal costs while keeping retirement savings intact.

  "This is a War... Get a lump sum for cash. That fixes it." ([39:16])

• Evaluating Financial Advisor Fit: Ramsey advises Courtney to consider whether her financial advisor is supportive and respectful or if their reaction (e.g., shaming) indicates a poor fit.

  "If you think she was shaming you and being condescending, then, yes, I would leave her." ([40:49])

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6. Effective Budgeting for High-Income Households

Caller: Greg from Columbia, South Carolina
Timestamp: [44:18 – 52:28]

Situation:
Greg and his wife, earning a combined income of approximately $135,000 annually, are overwhelmed by debt totaling around $47,000. They have two children in private schools and are struggling to manage their budget effectively despite using the EveryDollar app.

Key Points & Advice:

• Comprehensive Budgeting: Ramsey emphasizes the importance of allocating every dollar before the month begins to ensure no leftover funds that can lead to overspending.

  "Spend every dollar before it comes in. That's why we named it that." ([50:47])

• Debt Snowball Method: Encourages focusing on paying off the smallest debts first while maintaining minimum payments on larger ones to gain momentum.

  "Pay minimum payments on everything but the smallest, and attack the smallest with a vengeance." ([50:38])

• Adjusting Budget Allocations: Suggests revising the grocery budget from $600 to $1,200 to reflect their actual needs, preventing financial strain and ensuring budget adherence.

  "You're not spending and see if there's any money left. You do it all on paper on the app." ([51:43])

• Mutual Agreement and Commitment: Highlights the necessity for both partners to agree on budget allocations and enforce disciplined spending to achieve financial goals.

  "You're doing it wrong. That's where your problem is." ([50:47])

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7. Testimonials: Journey to Debt-Free Success

Guests: Wade and Carissa from Pine Grove, Pennsylvania
Timestamp: [75:00 – 85:40]

Situation:
Wade and Carissa share their experience of paying off $291,700 in debt over eight years and eleven months while increasing their household income from $108,000 to $205,000 annually.

Key Points & Story Highlights:

• Initial Struggles and Transformation: The couple began their journey with significant debt, utilizing Dave Ramsey’s Baby Steps to systematically eliminate their liabilities.

  "We paid off about 72,000 in the last 12 months." ([109:02])

• Adapting to Challenges: Faced with job loss during the COVID-19 pandemic, they intensified their debt repayment efforts, demonstrating resilience and commitment.

  "Carissa actually had a job loss... we stepped it up." ([110:34])

• Achieving Financial Freedom: Through disciplined budgeting and strategic financial planning, they successfully eliminated their mortgage and other debts, leading to increased financial stability and opportunities for wealth building.

  "You're free, I'm free. That's a whole different kind of life." ([109:56])

• Encouragement for Listeners: Their story serves as an inspiration, illustrating that with dedication and the right financial strategies, attaining financial peace is achievable.

  "You have to decide... walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus." ([113:07])

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8. Real Estate Investment Insights

Caller: Katherine from Augusta, Georgia
Timestamp: [86:44 – 92:01]

Situation:
Katherine and her husband own two homes. Their first home was converted into a rental property, but due to negative experiences with tenants and property maintenance issues, they are contemplating whether to keep or sell the investment property.

Key Points & Advice:

• Sunk Cost Analysis: Ramsey advises assessing whether they would choose to purchase the property again if they hadn’t already invested in it. Given their negative experiences, he recommends selling.

  "If you did not own this house and you had $60,000... Would you do that? No." ([88:52])

• Handling Bad Tenants: Emphasizes that landlords must be proactive in dealing with troublesome tenants to protect their investments.

  "Throw them out. Get after it." ([90:56])

• Relinquishing Problematic Investments: Suggests that if a rental property is causing more stress and financial strain than benefits, selling is the prudent choice.

  "Sell the house because it's in a bad... less than desirable neighborhood." ([89:42])

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9. Purchasing a Van vs. Using Emergency Funds

Caller: Michelle from Lubbock, Texas
Timestamp: [96:44 – 105:21]

Situation:
Michelle seeks guidance on whether to use her emergency fund to purchase a van for family and daycare needs or wait and save further.

Key Points & Advice:

• Distinguishing Needs from Wants: Ramsey clarifies that purchasing a vehicle does not constitute an emergency and encourages saving before making such expenditures to avoid compromising financial security.

  "It's not an emergency." ([119:47])

• Budget-Friendly Solutions: Recommends saving more before making the purchase or opting for a less expensive vehicle to minimize financial strain.

  "Or maybe save up five and get an $8,000 van." ([121:36])

• Long-Term Financial Stability: Advises maintaining the emergency fund to protect against unforeseen circumstances, ensuring that major purchases do not leave the family vulnerable.

  "Don't leave you vulnerable because that's what you would be." ([123:00])

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10. Final Advice and Closing Remarks

Timestamp: [105:21 – End]

Closing Segments:

• Building Wealth through Smart Financial Choices: Dave Ramsey urges listeners to adopt disciplined budgeting and strategic debt repayment to achieve financial peace and build lasting wealth.

• Inspiring Success Stories: Highlighting guests like Wade and Carissa serves to motivate listeners that financial freedom is attainable with perseverance and adherence to proven financial principles.

• Encouraging Responsible Investments: Ramsey consistently advocates for informed and ethical financial decisions, discouraging risky investments such as high-leverage real estate ventures that do not generate profit.

Notable Quotes:

• "Don't wait around until you're in your 30s to start living life and start, you know, doing adult things." ([113:01])
• "The tortoise always wins." ([60:27])
• "Term life insurance is meant to do one thing... replace your income if something were to happen to you." ([67:55])

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Conclusion:
This episode of The Ramsey Show underscores the importance of ethical financial decisions, disciplined budgeting, and proactive debt management. Through real-life examples and practical advice, Dave Ramsey equips listeners with the tools and mindset necessary to navigate financial crises effectively, ensuring long-term stability and wealth building.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, number one best selling author, Ramsey personality and co host of Smart Money Happy Hour, one of the Ramsey Network's YouTube hits. For sure. He's my co host today. Open phones here at Triple 882-55-5225. Sarah's in Los Angeles. Hi, Sarah, how are you?

[George Camel]

I'm good. How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Camel]

So my husband and I are expecting our first baby in a few months. Yay. Yes. Thank you. We are renting in Los Angeles and our mother in law, his mom currently lives with us. So I'm just going to preface with that. My, my husband's grandma has offered to buy her daughter. So my husband's mother a house in our name so that she is not docked by her unpaid debts from the irs. And so my question is, is this relationally wise? I love my mother in law. She's incredible. And if it is, what do we need to have on paper to kind of help sort this situation out where it's not unwise for us later on?

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're not going to live in the house?

[George Camel]

We are. So we would. She'd buy it in our name and we would live in the house and the mother in law would live with us.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is she in poor health?

[George Camel]

She's not in poor health.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

But this is an ongoing. You're going to take care of her for the rest of her life, though. Should live with you forever.

[George Camel]

My husband and I agreed that that would probably be the case. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[George Camel]

A handful of things, Honestly. I love her. She's the best woman in the world.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's different than living with them.

[George Camel]

Yes. She currently lives with us right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know that. Why does this lady need to live with someone else for the rest of her life? Because it sounds like she's like, what, in her 50s or 60s?

[George Camel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Well, has she got issues of some kind?

[George Camel]

Yes. So she has a lot of unpaid debts and so grandma is trying to take care of her by providing a home.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is she not working?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not my question. My question is why does she need to live with someone else like you the rest of her life?

[George Camel]

I guess she doesn't have to. I guess we would. We would choose to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm just saying if grandma buys this house for her, you're gonna Be stuck with this forever. Otherwise you move out.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's in her name, it's in Sarah's name.

[Rachel Cruze]

But the expectation is that you take care of his mom.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, there's. How old is your mother in law?

[George Camel]

55.

[Dave Ramsey]

55. Does she work?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why the hesitation? It doesn't sound like not much.

[George Camel]

She doordashes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she's what?

[Rachel Cruze]

No, she does deliver.

[Dave Ramsey]

So why does a 55 year old woman not have a sustaining job to earn money to pay back her debts?

[George Camel]

She did and then she lost her job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how long ago?

[George Camel]

In September.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why did she lose the job?

[George Camel]

The company changed the structure of the model.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, why did a 55 year old since September not gone, gotten gainfully employed if she has a bunch of debt.

[George Camel]

That is separate from me?

[Dave Ramsey]

What does that mean? What does that mean?

[George Camel]

I, I, I see that she is working doordash and she's trying her best right now. So. And she's going through a divorce.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she's going through a divorce. Well, there's an interesting piece of information we didn't have five minutes ago. Okay, no, I would not do this for two reasons. One is it is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It is not good for your mother in law. Your mother in law, as she is going through this divorce needs to recover from the grief of the ending of the marriage and heal and go stand on her own and have a career and have what's known as a life. Not hiding at her son's house from reality because she went through a nasty divorce and never re engages in society again. If you don't work since September and you're doing DoorDash and you're 55 and you're capable, there's a problem, okay? That's a problem. It's not good for her, her having the dignity of building a sustainable life and working her way through the debt. How much debt does she have by the way?

[George Camel]

Close to a million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how did she get a million dollars in debt?

[George Camel]

I don't ask questions. That's the only word.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, these are questions you should know. Okay? So no, you should not do this. You are tying yourself to people you don't ask questions about permanently and you are taking away her reasons for getting back on her own feet. This is not good. It is not health. The whole reason to do this is to deceive. Your grandmother is teaming up with your, your grandmother in law is teaming up with her daughter and using you guys to deceive the people that she owes. This is deception. And I'M not going to participate in that. It's a lack of integrity. It's unethical.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, so there's a lot more Sarah.

[Dave Ramsey]

There'S just so much going on here that you're not talking about or you don't know and it's really really scary. So there's, there's a line of crazy running through this conversation and for your all sake, for her sake, she's got to get back up on her feet. She's got to deal with this what's going on. And I don't know if she's going to end up with a million dollars in debt. I'm thinking I'll just, I'll, I'll suppose I'll just, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'm just going to we let her go. But I'm. Because she doesn't know anyway. But I'm guessing the ex husband has maybe a bunch of unpaid IRS debt and maybe this lady had nothing to do with him his business failure and she probably can get rid of all of that using innocent spouse provisions and so forth. And I'm guessing that if he ran up a bunch of debt in the divorce court, even if it is somewhat in her name, I got a feeling she didn't buy purses to get to a million dollars. I think there's some business weirdness with the soon to be ex husband going on melded into this. Maybe he ends up with a bunch of this Deb, but instead we're just participating in this cloak of invisibility and I don't want to participate in that. I want her to be standing there healed, a fine 57 year old two years from now who has a wonderful career and has dignity and stands on her own and comes over and visits the daughter in law that loves her dearly regularly. And I think that's what I would do. And if grandma wants to give her some money to clean up some of the debt that's left over, I got a feeling it's not going to be that much. It's not going to be a million as she buying a house for anyone. I would just use the money instead of buying a house. I'd use the money to clean up the debt. Yeah, that would be the ethical thing to do.

[Rachel Cruze]

Let's try to settle it. I don't know what if you want.

[Dave Ramsey]

To give somebody money for something but let's give somebody money to hide. Let's give somebody money to deceive. Put it in somebody else's name. No, no, no. No. No.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Well, you don't get.

[George Camel]

Sam. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade.

[Dave Ramsey]

And listen, if you're waiting on the government to cancel your student loans, I hate to say it, but that's like expecting your broke cousin Boo Boo to.

[Rachel Cruze]

Pay you back the 40 bucks you loaned him.

[George Camel]

It ain't happening.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, when it comes to student loans, no one else is going to pay them off for you. So if you want the loans gone, you've got to take control. Now, that might mean cutting back. It might mean throwing every extra dollar at your debt. And for some of you, it might refinancing to get a better interest rate.

[George Camel]

And that's where Laurel Road comes in.

[Dave Ramsey]

With Laurel Road, you can get an.

[Rachel Cruze]

Initial rate quote in less than five minutes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you have a more complex situation, you can schedule 30 minutes to talk to an actual human being. Look, guys, refinancing may not be for everybody. And Ramsey's advice is clear.

[George Camel]

We want you to pay off your.

[Rachel Cruze]

Debt as fast as possible.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you can get a lower.

[Rachel Cruze]

Rate or a shorter term that helps.

[Dave Ramsey]

You do that, go for it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Laurel Road has low rates, plus ways.

[Dave Ramsey]

To save even more money, like an autopay discount. Don't sit around hoping for a miracle. Change your life and change your mindset. Go get it done.

[Rachel Cruze]

Go to LaurelRoad.com Ramsey to check your rate today.

[George Camel]

That's LaurelRoad.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Emily is in Bristol, Virginia. Hi, Emily. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Hello.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi.

[George Camel]

I'm calling you. I've. I've got credit card debt that has been bought, and they're taking me to court, and I need some advice on how to deal with this before I get to court. I don't want to go to court.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how much is the debt?

[George Camel]

$6,067.63.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, as a. As a hearing date been set?

[George Camel]

Yes, the 26th of June.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, coming up quick. All right. And why have. Why have you not been able to pay it up to now?

[George Camel]

Well, because we had made some bad choices and we couldn't make the payments.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was pretty vague. What kind of bad choices did you make?

[George Camel]

Well. Well, my husband runs his own business, and it got down to where it was like paycheck to paycheck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you weren't making any money?

[George Camel]

Not a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, so what do you guys make now?

[George Camel]

Oh, gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hello?

[George Camel]

I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you don't know what you make now, do you work?

[George Camel]

No, I don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

I'm a Stay at home, homeschool. Mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does he work?

[George Camel]

Yes, he works for himself.

[Rachel Cruze]

He runs his own business, which isn't making money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it profitable now?

[George Camel]

It's. It's. It's coming. We're working to get the cash flow again. So.

[Rachel Cruze]

So it's not. So how are you guys still surviving off of credit cards?

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you eating?

[George Camel]

No, we. We don't have any more credit cards. We don't. And this one has not been in use, and so we've cut up and we only pay for cash. But we are doing. We're doing okay by the grace of God, because he's. He's what keeps us going and keeps things coming in to where we are able to eat and pay our monthly bills. We are okay as far as all that.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're getting sued and going to court. I would say you're a little less than okay. I mean, you act like everything's going great, and it's not. You guys don't have a lot of income coming in. And do you have any more debt outside of this credit card debt that's gone bad?

[George Camel]

Just our truck payment and that's it.

[Rachel Cruze]

What's the truck payment? How much is.

[George Camel]

It? Is $700 okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

All right.

[George Camel]

A month?

[Dave Ramsey]

She have a truck you can't afford?

[George Camel]

Well, he uses it for.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care what he uses it for. He doesn't have any money, and he has a $700 truck payment, so. No, that's. That's completely insane. All right. The answer to your question is that a debt buyer will buy bad debt, old, bad debt, like credit card debt, for somewhere around a nickel on the dollar. So somewhere around $300 is what they paid for this. Okay. This is an unemotional, quick and easy lawsuit that you will automatically lose. There's no point in even going down there because you owe the money. You did not pay it. He's gonna win. That simple. Okay. And then he could take liens against what you have, which is nothing because you don't have anything. You're broke. So there's not a lot that's going to happen. But given that he paid $300 for it, our experience is that probably $1,500 cash will settle this. Can you scratch that up?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

In the next two weeks.

[George Camel]

Probably.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's your only shot. I mean, you do not want to put pay. You do not want to settle for payments. I would rather just let the judgment hit. You're better off to let the judgment hit than you are to settle for payments. So set. Call the attorney's office that sued you and get on the phone with them. You're probably going to be talking to a paralegal and they are a trained bill collector. So this is not a nice human being.

[George Camel]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

This is not. You know, let me tell you. And please don't bring up God. It's not gonna work. Okay? Don't blame him for this mess. And so. And they'll use that. They'll use that back. They'll use it back on you. I promise you. Anything they can do to needle you to make you afraid or make you angry is their job. And they're very good at doing both. So you've got to get very good shields up emotionally and spiritually. And it's just a simple conversation. I have fifteen hundred dollars. If you will take that as settlement in full, we can do a deal right now. I'm not going to argue with you if you start a bunch of crap. I'm just going to hang up on you and I'll call back later and get your replacement, okay? And so you just keep working on it. Keep. And you'd be very, very, very tough and argue and just go, I don't have any. This is how much money I have. If I had a bunch of money, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Don't be stupid. So you need to take this money. It's all I have. And if you will take this as settlement in full and give it to me in writing that it's settled in full for $1,500, I will make arrangements to get you the $1,500. Okay. And it's probably going to take a lot more discussion than you and I have had today. You're going to have a lot of arguments and back and forth. It may take three or four phone calls. You may go, you need talk to your boss because apparently you don't have the power to do a deal. But if they can turn 300 into 1500 and not try to chase you and try to get money out of a broke person, they will. They'll take it. Okay? So it's great. But you got to pay them in cash, lump sum. Okay. No electronic access to your checking account. No, you don't give them any information about your husband's business. You don't trade any. Do not make their job easier if they come after you by giving them a bunch of information. Keep your mouth shut shut as far as your personal details go. Okay?

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're dealing with the enemy here. This is a War. And they're good at what they do. You're about to find that out. Okay, so settle it. Lump sum for cash. That fixes it. But, Emily, for God's sakes, you two, get your crap together. You don't even know what your husband makes, and you're getting sued for $6,000. Y' all need to get your head pulled where you can see sunshine again. And that's a $700 truck payment. When you're calling me broke and getting sued is insanity, there is no rationalization or justification for that. The truck has got to go, and husband has to get profitable or he needs to go get a job and feed his family. One of the two, because you guys are not taking care of business. This credit card debt is not your problem. It's the symptom of your problem, which is an irregular, horrible income and a mismanagement there. So, you guys, I love you, and I want you to be prosperous and win. And fixing your credit card debt lawsuit is not going to do it, because it's not the problem. It's the symptom. Okay? So please go deal with this stuff. If you promise you'll do that, I'll give you some tools to help you do it. You want to work on it or not?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you hold on. And we'll put you into Financial Peace University and give you every dollar premium. And you and your husband need to sit down and clean his mess up. Girl. Y' all been living in stress for. So I can hear it in your voice. I can hear the pain and the uncertainty in your voice. And by the way, that debt collector is going to hear the same thing I'm hearing. So they're going to smell weakness. They're going to be like a shark with blood in the water. So you got to come in with a little more sass than you came at me with no pauses. A little bit more surety.

[Rachel Cruze]

Very confident. That's what you need on this phone call.

[Dave Ramsey]

And just. You need to get after them and settle this thing. Otherwise. Otherwise, just let it turn into a judgment and then settle the judgment. It's the same thing. It doesn't matter. And they're probably not going to do anything with the judgment. And if they did, you know, I'm not sure exactly what Virginia law allows them to do with garnishments, but there's not a paycheck to garnish, so they'd have to just start scarfing up assets. And they don't want a $700 truck payment any more than you should. So they're not coming after the truck. It's not anything. And your husband doesn't seem to make anything. So I don't know where they're going to get any money. They're probably not going to get any. So they really ought to take this deal. It's good for them.

[George Camel]

Sam.

[Rachel Cruze]

Most phone plans are like bad roommates, unpredictable, always asking for money, hard to get rid of, and they never do the dishes. But Boost Mobile, totally different story. It's just 25 bucks a month for unlimited talk, text and data. No contracts and no weird hidden charges. Just 25 bucks a month? Forever? That's right. The $25 price will never go up. And if you're still skeptical, I get it. That's why Boost mobile offers a 30 day money back guarantee. So try Boost, you'll love it. Or get your money back. Go to boostmobile.com Ramsey to make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com Ramsey restrictions apply.

[George Camel]

See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details.

[Dave Ramsey]

Investing may seem complicated or confusing. When someone starts talking about investing, do they sound like Charlie Brown's teacher? That's how a lot of people feel about it. And you know, and then you're like ashamed because you can't understand what they're saying and they're not really saying anything. And so that's not your job. Your job is to manage your money and find someone with the heart of a teacher, not Charlie Brown's teacher, that has the heart of a teacher that will sit down with you and explain to you what you're doing and what you can do and what your options are. And then based on that, you do some good investing. So whether you're a complete beginner and you don't know what you're doing, that's okay. Everybody starts there. Or maybe you're looking for some next level strategies. Well, the Ramsey Investing Hub has tools and information that can help you invest with confidence. And we can hook you up with a smart Vista Pro if you want us to. That's got the heart of a teacher. And you will understand when they speak what they are saying. Ramseysolutions.com investing or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. Lori's in Atlanta. Hi Lori, how are you?

[George Camel]

Hi Dave. I'm well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Camel]

There we go. Like to hear that. So my question straightforward is just I pulled out some money from investments to pay for my daughter's first year of college.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yay.

[George Camel]

And this was money that I inherited two years ago. Do I tithe on that chunk of money?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, I mean, number one, let's lay down the foundational rule that the tithe is a tenth of your net increase according to Deuteronomy. Okay.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm assuming you're looking at this through a biblical lens, correct?

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just making sure that we're on the same page. Because sometimes people mean different things. All right, so. So I'm going straight to the scripture now. The thing we don't wanna do is we don't wanna get ever too legalistic or freaked out about this because somehow God doesn't like us if we do it wrong. Cause God loves you. You don't have to worry about doing this wrong. You can't give and mess up. It's impossible to mess up. Giving generosity is the heart of the Father, and so you've got his heart. When you're just asking the question, you're good. Okay. Now, technical, mathematical answer is you would tithe on your increase, which would be the growth. How much is this? How much was the inheritance?

[George Camel]

I had a feeling you'd ask that, so I came prepared. I inherited 927.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is that what went into the invest. Is that what went into this?

[George Camel]

So, no, that's not what went into it. With 450 of that, I bought a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. What is in this account? How much of the money in this account is inheritance? The one you're talking to me about, all of it.

[George Camel]

Like, I haven't put anything into it. I just. I used part of it to buy a house and I turned the rest of it over to my financial guy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. And so how much has that rest? What was the rest of it? 400 or 527?

[George Camel]

927 minus 450.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. All right.

[George Camel]

That's math.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got you. Okay. So anyway, did this. Did the amount that you gave to the financial. How much are you pulling out for college?

[George Camel]

44K.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what has the invent. Do you have? Ask your financial guy what percentage this account has grown since you opened it?

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let's make. Let's use a pretend calculation. Okay? Let's say that your financial person comes back and says, okay, your investments that you placed with us a year or two ago have grown 10% since you place them here. Okay? That means that out of the 44K, 10% is increased. The rest of it was principal. So you would only tithe on the increase, technically speaking, because The. The other money was already yours. Okay. So your only extra income is the return on investment that you got.

[George Camel]

Okay. You're starting to go a little Charlie Brown's teacher on me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, good. Thank you for catching me. All right, so the money that you put, the 527 that you put in, you don't tithe on IT or the 500,000 or whatever it ended up being that you put into the investment, you don't tithe on it. You only tithe on how much has gone up.

[George Camel]

I get that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so how much did the 44 go up? How much did the 44 go up? If the 44 went up 10%, if the whole thing went up 10%, then the 44 went up 10%. Does that make sense?

[George Camel]

Yes. So when I have a yearly review with him, and I just had it two days ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

No, that's not right. It was a few days ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay. What did they give you a return?

[George Camel]

He didn't give me a percentage. He gave me a number. He said it had grown 58,000 over the past year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

And you had 477 in there, based on your math that you told us.

[George Camel]

Ish. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So.

[George Camel]

So I want to look at what I put in.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're versus what?

[George Camel]

It's.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is that? What is that?

[Rachel Cruze]

12% return.

[Dave Ramsey]

A 12% rate of return. Okay. And so if you're pulling out 44, 12% of that is titheable. The rest is not, which means that's 52.

[Rachel Cruze]

80 is how much. That's the growth. And so if you tithe on that, and let's say it's 10%, that's $528. You would then tithe. That's the. The math.

[George Camel]

Okay, so. And again, I don't want to fall into legalistic stuff, but it's 529.

[Rachel Cruze]

You gave too much 527. Not enough. So get it right.

[George Camel]

Well, in order to tithe on it, I would actually have to pull it out because, like, I'm not getting payments on this.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's right. Okay, so pull out. Pull out an extra $500.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're gonna be real close.

[George Camel]

Oh, just 500?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's your tithe.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, remember, 5,000 was the growth, and then you're gonna tithe on that. And so 10% of 5,000 is 500 bucks.

[George Camel]

Okay. Okay. Okay. That's really helpful.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 44,000. Okay. So 58. I'm gonna do Charlie Brown teacher on you. I'm not gonna do it. Okay, but that's the answer. Yeah, that's how you get there.

[Rachel Cruze]

I crunch. I'll crunch the numbers again.

[Dave Ramsey]

We did it for you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Crunch.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so 12% is what you made on your money. 12% of 44 is.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's 52.

[Dave Ramsey]

5200. And so a tithe on that would be $520.

[George Camel]

Okay. Okay, I'm following that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay, we got there. All right, that's. It's a really good exercise to go through. And then when you finish up, just don't worry about it. So, I mean, if you tie. If you give an extra 500 bucks, or we'll give a thousand. I don't care. It's not. You can't mess this up. Right?

[George Camel]

I just want to have an obedient heart.

[Dave Ramsey]

You do. You already do. You ask the question, and that tells me you got an obedient heart. And then you're going to step in, you're going to do something here with that heart, and you're going to be heading in the right direction. But I just want to set everyone free. That generosity is the answer, and that's the answer to the question. And if you want to get into the jot and tittle, so to speak, if you want to get into the tiny details, it's kind of fun. It's an interesting Bible study, but not for purposes of God loving you more or giving you more grace. There's no indication in Scripture that he loves tithers more than non tithers. None. Nor is there any indication in Scripture that tithing is a salvation issue. None. Okay, so don't get. I'm not preaching at you, Laurie, but I'm just saying we get this stuff a lot because we push generosity so hard. But we want you to give because God gave his only Son and you're made in his image. He's a giver. Your DNA, your spiritual DNA is that of generosity. When you give, when you have a heart like Laurie, what it creates is increased creativity, increased productivity, increased health, increased passion. Everything in your life is accentuated when you step into your identity. And your identity includes generosity.

[Rachel Cruze]

So it's more about the spirit and less about a Common Core math riddle to get it perfectly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Common Core.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's what I felt. I felt like theology is like in Sunday school, but make it Common Core math.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank God there was no flannel board.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, man, I miss a good flannel board to see Noah just building his little ark. Oh, man, that was fun. That really was a brain teaser for me. Thank you for allowing us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Took a minute.

[Rachel Cruze]

Pleasure. Lori.

[Dave Ramsey]

Took a minute to back into it. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey. Technology has changed a lot in the last 30 years. Now the hot topic is AI. And I understand that it might seem intimidating, but if you use AI the right way, it's just another tool to help you work smarter and faster, like a calculator or a cordless drill. So if you run a business, you'd better get on board with it before you get left behind. And NetSuite by Oracle offers AI powered tools that help small businesses improve efficiency and make smarter decisions by bringing all their major business processes into one platform. That way, there's one source of truth for the real time data you need to take advantage of opportunities. Then you can forecast better, scale more efficiently, and streamline those manual tasks that take too long. So join the more than 41,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, that rely on NetSuite to help tackle some of their biggest challenges. And right now, you can download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey that's free at netsuite.com Ramsey Matthew's in Atlanta. Hey, Matthew. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Hey, pleasure to speak with you both. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[George Camel]

My question is my fiance and I are getting married in two years. I just finished baby step three and she is finishing in vet school in two years with $50,000 in student debt. My question is, do I save for her debt or do I start investing?

[Dave Ramsey]

You say for her debt.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why? So you can just the day you get home from the honeymoon, you pay it off.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that was my original thought.

[Dave Ramsey]

Two years.

[George Camel]

I'm a band director and those jobs are far and few between. I landed a job in the part of Georgia where we would like to start our life together. And she is at University of Georgia. And if I were able to find a job there sooner rather than later, I would of course move there. But we decided to stick with me working here and while she finishes school and then get married.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Okay. It's a long wait. Okay. Yeah. Just hard to do that.

[George Camel]

We've been long distance for about four years now. So she's a rock to my life and so I'm excited to start life with her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much can you save per year now that you're debt free with an emergency fund or that you're working on it?

[George Camel]

I just super lucked out with a new rental spot so I'm putting aside about 1500amonth. So a little close to 15,000 a year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So you, I mean you probably can get pretty close.

[George Camel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

18 grand a year plus some interest will get you pretty close to 50.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you know, and hopefully she doesn't even have to go quite that far.

[Rachel Cruze]

So it's a good way to start your marriage off debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done, sir. Good work. Courtney's in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi Courtney, how are you?

[George Camel]

Hi. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[George Camel]

Great. Yes. So I'm just wondering if I should continue with my financial advisor that I have right now. So here's my situation. Unfortunately I'm have to go through a divorce after almost 38 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry.

[George Camel]

And yeah, no, thank you. And the attorney said that I would have to pull out a guesstimate how much money I would need because this, these type of divorces may last 12 to 18 months. Meaning pull out from my 403. I'm a retired educator and so I called my financial advisor to give her that information and she's not happy about that. She set us a lot of taxes. You won't get that money back. On and on and on and on. So here is my. That's my question. Should I remain with her? I feel loyal to her because when I retired I had so little money and no one would take me on. She did and has grown my money.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the only money you have to your name is this 403B.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

And they're saying, the attorney saying to pull it out to cover legal fees for the next 18 months.

[George Camel]

Yes. Because he's going to put some kind of audits in place where we cannot touch our money. So you know, people can't, you know, my soon to be ex can't hide money and I can't hide money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where is there no other cash in the marriage?

[George Camel]

He has his money and I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you don't have any except a retirement fund.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how are you operating the household?

[George Camel]

Well, I have a pension and he still work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. But I mean there's no cash laying anywhere. The only thing he has is a retirement account. Only thing you gots a retirement account?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he's still living hand to mouth?

[George Camel]

No, no. So he's still working and has his large 403. I mean 401k. I get a pension because I'll be tired after 30 years of teaching. 31 years of teaching.

[Rachel Cruze]

How old are you?

[George Camel]

I have a pinch. I am 61.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How big is your pension?

[George Camel]

Almost 4,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what amount was the attorney suggesting that you pull out?

[George Camel]

He has not. Because of course he doesn't know. It depends on, you know, he thinks is going to be contested. That's all he said 12 to 18 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, but so he didn't give you a suggested amount?

[George Camel]

Nope.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much is in your 403B?

[George Camel]

About 400K.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and so you told me that. I'm sorry. So your financial planner, you called and said I'm going to have to pull some money out for attorney's fees. And your financial planner had a duck fit.

[George Camel]

Yes, and also to float me in my place until I find a job, which I'm on it right now, I think I have, but I don't know yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have a pension coming in. You can eat on that?

[George Camel]

Yes, I can. I'll just eat a little.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you need a little help? How many. Didn't you say you're $4,000 a month coming in?

[George Camel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have another debt. I have one car. About 18,000. Yes, that's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And are y' all separated?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So where are you living? In the house or in a new place?

[George Camel]

No, no, no, I'm in another place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much is the rent?

[George Camel]

17, 1600.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Why did you sign up for $1600 in rent in Columbia, South Carolina when you only have $4000 to work with?

[George Camel]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it a long term lease?

[George Camel]

12 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it started when?

[George Camel]

Last month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

What's your car payment?

[George Camel]

390.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I would not pull money out to live on. I would go to work.

[George Camel]

Okay, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

To live on. And I would add to the pension. With your work money, you probably substitute. You can probably do a lot of other stuff that makes pretty good money. You probably do some tutoring, you probably do a lot of stuff and make some good money. And you need to throw a couple thousand dollars on top of that 4,000. And you need to live on 6,000 while you go through this. Okay. That's your short term game plan. So we don't have. Because every dollar we pull out of the 403 is going to have taxes on it, have a penalty on it.

[George Camel]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. But I would pull, you know, I probably pull 30 grand out and just set it in the account and get ready to write some attorney's fees checks. Hopefully you won't spend that much. I hope you don't. Yeah, but that, that and I don't want you to use that to live on. I want you to go get, create some income with your pension and live on that.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want that money sitting over there, and the only thing you've got to do is just pay taxes on it. It and your tax rates not going to be that high. But your question was whether you should leave the financial planner.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you leave her? Is it her?

[George Camel]

Did you say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She just had a fit. And I'm like, wait a minute.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, when you say how to fit?

[George Camel]

Yes. She's like, that's a lot of money. You got to pay a lot of taxes. I said, I know, but I'm just telling you what he said. I'm just trying to be prepared. Okay. You know, this is all, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, it's not a lot of money if it's for taxes on $30,000.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do they think you were gonna be like five or six thousand bucks?

[George Camel]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, here's the thing. If the. I can't tell how this conversation sounded by the way you're describing it. Exactly. So there's two possible things. If the conversation was. Sounded like, courtney, you're an idiot. I'm smarter than you. You do what I say, then you should leave the financial planner. If the conversation was, girl, I love you, and this is going to cost you a lot of money, and this is crazy. Don't do, oh, my gosh, it's a lot of money, and she's trying to take up for you.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that could be.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think if that's what she's doing, then you stay with her. She was just covered.

[George Camel]

She said, I've never done this before. It's usually month to month. Whatever you need, I'll, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's not. But the attorney's afraid they're going to lock your accounts down.

[George Camel]

That's what he's. That's what I've been telling her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's what. And that's. That's very possible. It's very possible. So at least for a short period of time and try to put a pinch on you. And then. Then you've got a problem paying attorneys fees if that happens. So, yeah, I want you to be dealing in the divorce negotiation from a position of strength, and that puts $30,000 in the bank.

[George Camel]

Okay. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. But as far as changing the financial planner, if you think she was, you know, shaming you and being condescending, then, yes, I would leave her.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But if you think she was just excited and was trying to take up for you, then that's a good sign.

[George Camel]

Okay. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You see the difference?

[George Camel]

Yes, I do. That makes sense. Thank you so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you think it was?

[George Camel]

First I was like, I've told you this before. And I said, this is the second time I've mentioned this to you. And. But she just said, okay, okay. That's what he's. This, will you. You know, that's. He's saying, we'll do it. You know, whatever, whatever. So I was just kind of like, are you believing what I'm saying? You think I want to take a truth? I mean, I don't know. That was me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's not her job that if you want to take a cruise, she doesn't get a choice in that. It's not her money.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Her job is to teach you the implications of your decision.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And say, courtney, you're getting ready to pay some taxes when you pull this money out. And that's a lot, especially if you duplicate it.

[Rachel Cruze]

It was a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

You may want to stop and think about that. Okay. That's her job. But her job is not to, you know, treat you disrespectfully. And sometimes they do. And you need to get away from those types. They think they're in charge of your money, which is very weird. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruze]

Hey, George Camel here. Listen, we need to talk specifically about Mama Bear legal forms. Allow me to paint you a picture. You plan a vacation, you make a budget, you book the Airbnb, you build a spreadsheet of activities because you're that person. You fire up the Maps app, and boom, trip of a lifetime. So here's the question. If you plan that carefully for a one week getaway, why are you just winging it when it comes to your will? Not having a will in place is like dropping your family off at a foreign airport with no map, no translator, and no clue what happens next. So when you pass away, sure, your family will be grieving, but they're also overwhelmed, stuck in court and letting the government decide what happens to everything you work so hard for. All because you didn't leave clear instructions. So the good news is you can fix this in 20 minutes with mama Bear legal forms. I use them for my own will. And it was fast, simple, and gave me and my family peace of mind. There's no stuffy lawyer's office, no drama, Just a few clicks and your family's protected. Listen, a will is too important to ignore. It's how you love your people. Well, Even after you've yeeed your last haw, as we say in the south. So go to mamabearlegalforms.com and handle this tonight. Use the promo code Ramsey and you'll save 20%. That's mamabearlegalforms.com promo code Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and YouTube star of the George Camel show. He's my co host today. Open phones at 888-255-225. Greg is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Greg, how are you?

[George Camel]

Hey, Mr. Dave. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Camel]

Not much. I was calling to see, you know, how exactly do you suggest to get me and my wife on the same page when it comes down to finances and how to make sure that we're saving the most money that we can with two kids in private school. You know, we just kind of feeling overwhelmed about the entire situation. We have your every dollar app and we're, you know, we're kind of new to it. We've been doing it for a month. So I just want to make sure that we're taking care and following the right steps.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. And how old are you guys?

[George Camel]

I'm 30 and she will be 31 on the 26th.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[George Camel]

I make 46 an hour and she makes 30 an hour.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what's that equate to annually?

[George Camel]

We're roughly bringing in about 135,000 a year somewhere around there.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is how much the private school cost?

[George Camel]

Right now we're paying about 1250amonth for two.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 15,000 a year?

[George Camel]

Yes, sir. I think last year when we filed taxes, it was like 17,000 and some change with everything, you know, extra that we had to purchase that goes along with private school.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. Okay. All right. What do you do for a living?

[George Camel]

I'm a lineman.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so the two of you a month ago decided we're going to try to start doing a budget and get on the same page. And it's been a struggle.

[George Camel]

Yes, sir, absolutely. I mean, we've, we've been borrowing from her, her parents, you know, we're still paying them back. We owe them about $2,000. You know, our family, we're not one to really talk about our struggles, but I guess it's, you know, kind of see through. But I just told her, you know, we've got to do something different. You know, we want to start saving for our kids college, and we've currently finished baby step one, which is save a thousand dollars, but we actually have saved twelve hundred dollars.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much.

[George Camel]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, how much debt do you have?

[George Camel]

Right around 47,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

On what?

[George Camel]

It's credit cards. I've got a student loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is this? How much is the student loan?

[George Camel]

Her student loan is about 11,000, and my student loan, I owe about 5,500.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and how much on the truck?

[George Camel]

On the what now?

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe on your truck?

[George Camel]

It's paid for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what's it worth?

[George Camel]

I drive a 2004, so it's probably okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fine. And what is the other debt then? That's 11 and 5,500. That's. That's 16,000 of the 47. What's the rest of. How much is. Credit cards.

[George Camel]

Credit cards. We've got a case card that we just paid off. It was like 180. We've got a city card that we have about 11,000 on. Got another Capital One card with about 900 on. I'm trying to see what else. We've got a whole home generator that we put in whenever we build our house that we owe about 7,000 on. And I'm trying to think, how much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is your house payment?

[George Camel]

1600, 1648.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So I'm still not anywhere the credit cards. I got 12 on. I got seven on the generator. I'm still short a bunch. Where's the rest of that?

[George Camel]

So I'm trying to see. So we got the both of the credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's another 10 or 15,000 somewhere.

[George Camel]

Yeah. So we've got her student loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got that.

[George Camel]

We've got a city card.

[Dave Ramsey]

A farm loan.

[George Camel]

Yes, sir. So we sold property that was inherited from my grandmother, and whenever we sold that property, we had to get it resurveyed because it didn't have a current survey. And we didn't have the $9,000 to pay for that survey. So we had to take out a loan to be able to pay for that survey. And our intentions were to pay that loan off whenever we closed on the property that we were selling. And we actually paid her car off instead. Okay, so we still have this loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm getting close now. Okay, so basically you've been borrowing left and right and you woke up and realized it didn't work. And we sit down to try to do a budget. And what happens when you're trying to do a budget because it sounds like there should be some room in this budget.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I mean, I'm all for, you know, I take my lunch to work every single day.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not what I'm talking about. I said, when you sit down with her to do a budget and you're both in agreement that we have to clean this mess up, is that. Is that a correct statement?

[George Camel]

Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she's in agreement that we have to clean the mess up?

[George Camel]

Yeah, she. She is.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so where are you misaligned?

[Dave Ramsey]

So when you sit down to do a budget, why does she not want to clean the mess up?

[George Camel]

Well, I mean, she does, but I guess whenever we're saved, whenever we're budgeting each month, she sees some leftover money in the checking account.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, you know, how can there be leftover money?

[George Camel]

Well, we just started, like, this month. This past month is the only month that we've had extra money in there because we're not spending as much. So this month, I guess, with being extra money in there, you know, even though we're on a budget and we're trying to tell her to save money, you know, she still sees that money.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we're not saving money. We're on baby step two. It's all going on the debt. There shouldn't be any money left in the account. It should have all been put on the debt. Okay, you said baby steps. You told me baby steps. And baby step two is list your debts, smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the smallest, and attack the smallest with a vengeance. And any money you can squeeze out of your budget and you throw at the smallest.

[George Camel]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And that should be written down in every dollar before the month begins. You don't have slosh money left because you've spent it all on paper before the month begins.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're doing it wrong. That's where your problem is. The two of you need to sit down and in writing before the paychecks come in. On the EveryDollar app, spend every dollar before it comes in. That's why we named it that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so if there's $400 extra, that should already be assigned in your budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

On your smallest debt, which is a credit card, right now, that $900 card, probably.

[George Camel]

So you're saying whatever is left over after all the bills are paid and make minimum payments on all of our debt, we have $900 left over in the checking account?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, honey, after. No, no, no, no. It's not the checking account. It's on the budget in the EveryDollar app. I want you to have your income for the coming month entered into the Every Dollar app, and I want every dollar of that spent in the app. And then when you write all those checks, there's not going to be any money left over.

[Rachel Cruze]

You might have a little buffer that you leave in there.

[Dave Ramsey]

You might leave a buffer in there, but you don't touch a buffer. That buffer is there just to keep you from bouncing checks.

[George Camel]

Got you. Gotcha. Okay, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you should, you don't, you don't spend and see if there's any money left. You do it all on paper on the app. Before you start, the two of you together, decide that this is what we're going to spend on your nails and hair. This is what we're going to spend for gas in the car. And this is what's going to be left. And that amount that's left is going on these smallest debts. So it's going on these credit cards and we're going to cut them up and we just start attacking those debts. Smallest to largest. You're on track. You're going to get there.

[Rachel Cruze]

Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order?

[George Camel]

Yes, I have, George, Sketchy. And never trust them.

[Rachel Cruze]

And that's why we recommend Delete me. They help with that?

[George Camel]

Yeah, they do. Delete Me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker website sites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs.

[Rachel Cruze]

And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find.

[George Camel]

So much.

[Rachel Cruze]

But Delete me will delete your data, hence the name. It's gone. They'll wipe it out for you so you can sleep easy.

[George Camel]

That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful.

[Rachel Cruze]

Get this. So far they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites, and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible.

[George Camel]

Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of that. It.

[Rachel Cruze]

I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to join DeleteMe.com Ramsey that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable.

[George Camel]

Again, that's joins late me.com Ramsey. Make sure to check it out, you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Steve's in San Antonio. Hastings. Steve, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Thanks for having me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[George Camel]

So I've been in the sales industry for a long time, and I've been pretty much. I've been pretty good with my money. And about two years ago, my income noticeably jumped up quite a bit. And a bunch of my employees kind of in the sales industry just had the high leverage, high debt to grow your wealth kind of mindset. And long story short, I ended up getting my primary residence and then a year later bought a rental property, and then I got a new car. And I'm just kind of figuring out what the best way to pay all that off is because I'm a recent fan of yours, kind of started listening, like summer of last year and just kind of want to get out of the debt life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you were working a plan that's the polar opposite of what we teach people to do, and now, you know, you want to change direction and go back the other way.

[George Camel]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So the way you got into this was buying a bunch of crap you couldn't afford once you sell it.

[George Camel]

So the. I bought. Well, I paid off my car, so the car is completely paid off. And then I just have my primary residence and then just my rental property.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And my. My rental properties rented out. And I'm just curious because what do you owe? The rental property is 300,000, and then my primary residence is 600.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what are you making?

[George Camel]

Around 250,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you can. You're making good money. So you have any debt other than these two items?

[George Camel]

No, I have just like a thousand on credit card, but I pay it off every month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Well, I mean, I would get on a. Are you married?

[George Camel]

Married, yes, with two kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good, good.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I. I mean, what we. What George and I would teach you is just to let's live on beans and rice and let's pay off the. Pay off your rental property and pay off your home.

[George Camel]

So do you. Do you pay off the rental property first?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's smaller. You can. You can knock it out. You probably knock it out in a couple years, couldn't you?

[George Camel]

Yeah, my goal is to have it Paid off within the next year and a half or so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that'd be cool. And then if you got all that cash flow plus you're making 250, maybe even then, maybe even your income goes up, then you just start working on paying off the house and making sure you have an emergency fund in place and cut up the credit card and quit using that crap. But that's just going to help you with your efficiency on the money.

[Rachel Cruze]

How profitable is the rental?

[George Camel]

It's not profitable because I bought the house when it was high interest rate, so it's currently about minus 400. It was my initial primary resident.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you, what's it worth?

[George Camel]

It's currently worth around 350.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why don't you just sell it?

[George Camel]

Well, so our thought process is, My.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thought process is you're not making any money. The idea of owning real estate is to make money on it and this thing sucks.

[George Camel]

Right. Well, if I were to refinance where the interest rate was a bit lower.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then you still wouldn't be making any money. You only got $50,000 in equity. You're not making any money on this.

[George Camel]

Right. My cpa, he advised me just if we got it to where it's just breaking even, it's mainly just helping for tax write off purposes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you need a new cpa. He's an idiot.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm serious. You know, you know where you get a tax write off off from losing money.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're good at that. So. Yeah, I would sell it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. I don't, we don't do anything for the tax write off. And especially when you're losing money on this property, you're going to continue bleeding out. There's going to be sunk cost fallacy. It's going to hurt to sell it. There's going to be a stupid tax, but it'll be even stupider to hang on to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, he's going to get out of it. Skin. Yeah, he's got, he's got, owes 300.

[Rachel Cruze]

Are you still bleeding money every month? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Camel]

I think combined after the rental, I'm about like 35% of both of my mortgages is my income.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but that's not, that's not relevant. The point is that you would never buy, you would never take a risk of this level to make no money. And you're making no money. You're actually feeding it. And if you refinance it, you're still not going to be making any money. Making enough to buy a biscuit or something. And all in the name of a tax write off. That's just bull crap. This is. Somebody doesn't understand risk analysis. And you're just, you have made a mess here and you know it. And that's why you're, that's why you put the car in reverse and stepped on the gas because you knew you're about to run over the cliff and you stopped everything. You figured out your friends that were giving you advice were morons and you just decided I'm not going to go that way, I'm going to go the other way. And so good, that's good. And you paid off the car, that's good. But I would just sell the rental. And then you're sitting there with a $600,000 mortgage, which is very reasonable, making 250. You're going to be very wealthy in about five hours in a few years you'll be knocking that out in a few years and be sitting there with a paid for house and be stacking cash. And now you're going to really build some wealth. That's the direction you're going. But I think this rental is an impediment. I don't think it's a blessing. And I love real estate, but there's nothing worse than a bad piece of real estate. And this thing sucks. So guys, here's. This is the end of the TikTok story. Or you don't see high leverage, wealth building. Did you hear the phrase, yeah, you know where that comes from?

[Rachel Cruze]

TikTok?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Or other moronic.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, they say, well this is what wealthy people do. Therefore if I do this high leverage, high risk thing, I will also become wealthy.

[Dave Ramsey]

High leverage, high risk, wealth building plans. Which is interesting because when you actually study the wealthy, which we have done for decades, they don't do that.

[Rachel Cruze]

And the ones that did it isn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

How they built wealth. And they certainly don't do that after they get wealth. Like oh, let's go deeply in debt now that we're wealthy. It's not a plan of the wealthy. This is the dumbest thing that people say.

[Rachel Cruze]

They get wealthier pitching this stuff because they have a course to teach you how to do it. That's how they're actually building wealth, is creating a product to sell to people on TikTok who want to get into it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

But don't you think in the sales world, real estate world, the risk meter tends to be broken with many of them they get starry eyed in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Order to very cash poor. And here's the thing I'm a salesman. That's how I grew up too. And I suffered from this, especially in my 20s, because one thing about if you can sell and you can make a good living, you make good money, number one. Number two, if you can sell, you have an abundance mentality. And then the toxic version of that is what I fell into. And a lot of people do, which is you think you can out earn your stupidity and stupid will catch you from behind. You can't outrun it, it's just, it'll get you. And so I thought for years, because I just thought I could just go make some more money. I'm just gonna make some more money.

[Rachel Cruze]

Anytime you run into a problem and.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't, I've always been able to go make more money. It was the keeping it that was the first problem, you know, in the early days. And so that, you know, an abundance mentality when you get out of control is I think I can outearn my stupidity. So because I have the ability to go make money and I can do stupid things and get away with it, like the rules don't apply. And that kind of mentality will cause you to stay broke your whole life. And it'll be really sad because you will have made a lot of money and have none. But that's the. So what he fell into is very normal. He's not a bad guy, he's a smart guy.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean he's really doing well. Congratulations. Making 250k, I mean that's wonderful. Quarter million dollars, that's a nice income. I don't care what you say. So that it's, it's great. And so it's really hard for people like that are wired like me and him to commit to the slow and steady wins the race. The tortoise always wins.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's less exciting, doesn't get as many clicks.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're the hair. I mean we're the flashy Flash and dash.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Well, they think speed equals sophistication.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And high risk, high leverage, wealth building blend. These are, this is a, this is an oxymoronic sentence. The words don't even go together. Wealth building plan should not be in the same sentence with high leverage, high risk because the data says otherwise. I mean the actual data, when you actually study people who have a million dollar to ten million dollar net worth, they did not do it that way. They simply didn't do it. And so I was in a. There was a guy named Robert Allen back in those days, 30 years ago that wrote a book 35 years ago that wrote a book called Nothing Down. Oh yeah, he's famous. Yeah, he's the OG and so, and he'd go, he was famous. He'd go into a city and just never been there. And by the end of the week had bought three houses. Nothing down. He could figure out complete leverage, high leverage, wealth building plan. And he set up these real estate clubs all over America and I was in one of them. All the guys in those clubs are no longer in real estate business.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Except the ones that paid off their debts. The rest, the reverse course. Like he was doing. Yeah, like this last guy's doing. So the rest of them are out of the real estate business. They didn't make it. And Robert Allen filed chapter 11 bankruptcy. Oh boy. Didn't work. Just saying. The OG you know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal. And that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. If you found yourself trying to explain this Ramsey thing to somebody else, it can be kind of hard because there's a of lot lot going on here. I mean, it's like where do you start? Baby steps, Debt snowball or Ramsey's crazy? I mean, where do you start? Because all of those might be true.

[Rachel Cruze]

So much to say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, there's a lot to cover. How to build an emergency fund and how to live on less than you make a concept Congress can't grasp. I mean, all These things. Right. So what we did was we put together a playlist. The Ramsey 101 playlist. Free. It's free. Did I mention it's free? It's easy to share. And there's clips on baby steps and debt, snowballs and emergency funds and a lot more. Click the link at the top of the show notes and open the Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube and text it DM it. Send it to a group chat. Say, hey, I think this might help. Don't say, you're stupid. You need to do this. That one won't work. Say instead, this helped me. I thought you might be interested or something like that. We paid off $10,000 worth of debts already, and we just got started. Whatever, I don't care. But tell your story. Don't shame people with it. That's the idea. So one person in your life, at least one share might change everything. Reese is in Indianapolis. Hi, Reese. How are you?

[George Camel]

Hello, Dave. I'm good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Camel]

So I had a couple of questions. I'm 23 years old. I got two kids and a wife. I had an insurance question about life insurance. So I don't have this. I don't have a lot of. A lot of money in my 401k in my retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you did at 23?

[George Camel]

Yeah. Well.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just.

[George Camel]

I wasn't sure about the.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much do you make, reese?

[George Camel]

I make $60,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

I manage a restaurant.

[Rachel Cruze]

So life insurance is meant to do one thing. It doesn't have to do with your retirement. The. The goal is to replace your income if something were to happen to you so that your family could put food on the table and cover their bills.

[George Camel]

Bills.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's it. You're transferring the risk over to the insurance company. And there's only one type that we recommend, and that's term life insurance. And you want 10 to 12 times your income so that if something were to happen to you, they pay out $600,000 and your family can invest that money and live off the returns. So that's the goal. So someone in your shoes making 60 grand would be looking at a 600, $700,000 policy.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you die, your wife puts that in an investment, it makes 10%. The investment creates 60,000, and that replaces the income that they don't have since you died. And that's what it's for. And the good news is, if you don't smoke and you're not overweight and you're 23 it costs almost nothing.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's gonna be dirty.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, blown away as to how inexpensive it is. Just go to zanderinsurance.com We've been endorsing Jeff Zander and that team for, for almost 30 years now and they do a great job finding you the cheapest possible 15 to 20 year level term. You should get about 6 or 700,000 and you're going to find it's the cost of a pizza. And that way you know that your little kids and your wife are taken care of if something happens to you. And yes, you need to go get that. That's not an investment issue, it's a budget issue.

[Rachel Cruze]

And for anyone listening, if anyone relies on your income, you just got married, you just had a kid, you need term life insurance yesterday. So don't put this off unless you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Unless you have enough investments to produce enough income to replace you or for your family to be okay if you did something didn't happen to you. So, you know, normal 23 year old, normal 33 year old, typical dude. You're going to need, you know, some, you know, 10 to 12 times your income on a 15 or 20 year level term insurance. Absolutely. Today's Ramsey Show Question of the day sponsored by why Refi? When you're tired of making no progress on your defaulted private student loans, why Refi can help you explore a fresh start with low fixed rate refinancing. So it's time to stop spinning your wheels and go to yrefi.comramsey to learn more. That's why refi.comramsey might not be in all states.

[Rachel Cruze]

Today's question comes from Joanna in Oregon. My boyfriend is a financial advisor with a yearly income of around 80,000. But he is 200,000 in debt, mostly credit cards and student loans. I'm almost 30 and very reluctant to continue our two year relationship. I have $100,000 in savings in zero debt. As I talk with him about finances, it seems like he likes having a very high lifestyle and is an impulsive spender. I also enjoy a great lifestyle but generational wealth is very important for my future. He's counting on his next opportunity to transfer to a firm that will provide him a big upfront bonus to pay off most of his debt. But he still spends as if he's got unlimited money. I know he will become successful at his career. It's just right now he seems irresponsible and it causes me to hesitate about our future together. Am I being unreasonable or am I being, am I being reasonable? I think so. You sound like the most reasonable person in this situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's sad though. I mean, obviously you care about him, but you've realized that, that you're incompatible with your value system and you need to address it now because the number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. And they come from the differences that we're saying here. Someone who's responsible, mature, careful, versus someone who's impulsive, out of control and thinks they can out earn their stupidity. And that's what this guy is. And so, I mean, it's okay to talk with him about it and say, listen, this is a deal breaker for me. If you can't adjust this and we can get it aligned, then that's going to be a deal breaker if you want to keep doing what you're doing. And then, you know, and I don't care what he says after that discussion. What I care is what he does after that discussion. He says, you know what? You're right. I've been thinking about it. I'm going to get on a budget and you and I can talk about it and you can show me what you're thinking and I'm going to start living, you know, responsibly and I'm going to work on getting this debt paid off. If that's the response, then maybe you save the relationship. But if the response is, oh, I'm the financial advisor, you're an idiot, I can out earn this and you know, you just don't understand how this math thing works and then. Which is probably the response you're going to get. And so you're probably done.

[Rachel Cruze]

If I'm telling you who he is, believe him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. Dr. John DeLoney says behavior is a language. So what he does with this information, that this is a deal killer, not what he says is what matters because this guy's a salesman, he's going to sell you. Oh, yeah, honey, I'll do whatever. No, no, no. Okay, then I want to see four or five months of you doing this. Otherwise I am going to end it. You're going to get on a plan. You're going to live on less than you make. You quit being impulsive and high lifestyle, quit living above your income.

[Rachel Cruze]

And yeah, this bonus is not going to make him. Because this is not impulsive.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is, this is. Yeah, he changes no behavior. So I, I was him. So you can change. It's. It's not, it's not a DNA, it's not a character. I mean, it's a decision you can just look at it and go, okay, I need to change that. So I used to live that way too. So. And now I teach everybody not to. So I can. You can change. And not only that, I don't live that way. So, you know, you just, you learn. You can. These are. The good news about these things is you can just decide. There's very few people that aren't capable. It's just a decision. And so you can decide. I went, you know, I didn't lose a girlfriend. Instead, I went broke. So that was my wake up call. His wake up call might be the threat of losing you. Maybe that's his wake up call and he can just decide to change. But I, you know, don't do it in a shaming or condescending way, but just say, listen, I know the data says that our marriage is not going to make it if we go into a marriage with these differences. So we've got to get aligned. And I'm not going to join you. You're going to join me or we're going to have to call this. And so you need to have that conversation. So. Yeah. When the kids were in High School 100 years ago, it feels like now they would say we have to have a dtr.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Define the relationship. Yeah, yeah. That's what we're doing.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's what we're about to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's not, it's not a. It's not an ultimatum, but it is. This is who we is. It's clarity. This is what. Yeah, this is what. This is what next steps look like.

[Rachel Cruze]

This financial dissonance is only going to get louder and louder and it's going to get worse if you continue.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, for sure. We all know the importance of eating fruits and vegetables, but let's face it, life gets busy. And sometimes we eat stuff we shouldn't. That's where Field of Greens comes in. It's a superfood powder made from real organic fruits and vegetables. Mix one scoop with water and you're good to go. Field of Greens is packed with nutrients designed to support your overall health, boost your immune system, and increase your energy levels. And your doctor will notice your improved health. Or Field of Greens will give you your money back. Visit fieldofgreens.com Ramsey to save 20% and get free shipping. That's fieldofgreens.com Ramsey. Buying or selling off home is a big deal. And between clickbait headlines and confusing data, it's tough to know what's actually really going on in the Housing market. So we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand and clear. Median home prices went up slightly last month, sitting right now at about 430,000. Median house price across the U.S. more homes are on the market right now. One million for sale, the highest since 2019. But in many areas, still not enough to meet buyer demand. So prices continue to increase. The average 15 year fixed rate rose to about 5.9 last month. Little under 6. Still so good. Good buying interest rate, good times. So if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get some tools to help you figure out if you're ready to buy or sell and do it with confidence, all [e-mail] market ramseysolutions.com market or click the show notes on YouTube or PODC. Julie's in Cedar Rapids. Hi, Julie, how are you?

[George Camel]

I'm doing great. Thank you so much for taking my call. It's such an honor to be on the show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honored to have you. How can we help?

[George Camel]

Yeah, if you say, I just wanted to thank you because you saved my financial life in 2008, about 17 years ago, after my divorce, I was in $30,000 in debt and was able to get out in five years. So I followed your program ever since. So I just wanted to thank you for that. And I mean, it's just been a lot. I recently got married 12 years ago right now. And we agree on everything except for one thing right now. And we're prepping our will right now and we're disagreeing on one thing and that is our house with what to do with the house after, when we're gone. My husband, he wants to just split. We have. He has two kids. I have two kids. They're all adults, nothing, nobody under 18. And we have two kids which live in different states. So they're gone. We have two living at home. They're 34 and they're just having a hard time just trying to get an apartment that they can live in right now. So he wants to sell the house down the middle, straight down the middle and between everybody and just sell the house right out. My disagreement is, is that if anything happened to us tomorrow, that would leave two of the boys kicked out of the house with nowhere to go. We're gonna have our house 34 years. Yeah, 34. He better.

[Dave Ramsey]

Maybe it's time to do that anyway.

[George Camel]

Exactly. I wish I could.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why? Well, no, I mean, I just. I just raised my little one and I say my wish came true.

[George Camel]

I wish. I wish.

[Dave Ramsey]

No Tell them to leave. I'm serious. As a heart attack.

[George Camel]

And is. Even if they can't afford the rentals.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much is.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not in Manhattan? They ain't working much, are they?

[George Camel]

There were. They're working full time. They actually have. They actually have a good job.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do they make?

[George Camel]

You know, like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what do they make?

[George Camel]

They make one. One is. He makes. Well, one doesn't make one as much as the other one.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do they make?

[George Camel]

One of them makes about 17 an hour. The other one makes 12.

[Dave Ramsey]

My God, you can make 20 at Target.

[Rachel Cruze]

You said they had good jobs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Those aren't good jobs.

[George Camel]

Yeah, no.

[Rachel Cruze]

And what has stunted their.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you think they have some kind of disability?

[George Camel]

One of them has a disability and he does not drive at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the nature of his disability?

[George Camel]

It's that he has a Lego. It's basically a mental disability.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of what type, darling?

[George Camel]

He has anxiety and then he's been a. He is. He does not drive. He has.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why does he not drive that?

[George Camel]

I've been. And try to answer that since I've been married.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. He chose not to drive. Yes, but anxiety doesn't keep you from driving.

[George Camel]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So whose children are these? Yours?

[George Camel]

One of them. One of them is mine and the other one is his.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And so, you know, and then.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so let's stop a second. All right. We need to solve number one. Let's just go back and answer your question. And you're probably not gonna like the answer, but your husband wins.

[George Camel]

Okay? Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the answer to your problem is that we need to solve the problem while you're alive to get these young men to a sustainable life. So they don't need their mommy and their daddy at 34.

[George Camel]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so we need to start working on some career coaching and some work ethic coaching and get them out of the house and let them establish a life of some kind. But they're in their 30s. This is called failure to launch.

[George Camel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you're doing them. No, favorite. You're coddling them. You're doing them no favors. You need to. You need to set some deadlines with some specific stage gated goals that say, okay, by this date, we're going to help you do this. By this date, we're going to help you do that. And so that six months from now, you no longer live here.

[George Camel]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

You're going to get a driver's license and a freaking job that pays more than $12. And you're going to work more than 40 hours. You're going to work like 60 hours. And by the way, you won't have as much anxiety because you're working all the time. It helps with that. You got anxiety when you're underperforming, broke, and have no dignity and live in your mommy's basement. That causes anxiety.

[George Camel]

And that's exactly what. And that's exactly what he's doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I know. I can tell. It causes anxiety because there's no confidence, because there's no competence. And so you and hubby, let's develop a plan and get these young men together and okay, we're going to get Ken Coleman's materials on careers. I'll tell you what, I'll send you the set. I'll send you the proximity principle. I'll send you finding the work you're wired to do. I'll send you two sets, one for each boy. And they can take the assessment and figure out some career paths. And let's get them in some of the trades. The trades are paying very well right now, but they're going to get a callus and they're going to sweat and stuff, which your husband and you have probably done. And they will be prouder of themselves and you'll be prouder of them, and then they won't need you to do some kind of weird, wicked thing with the will to take care of them since they didn't bother to create a sustainable life.

[George Camel]

Exactly. And that's what I'm worried about. Because they would not be able to take care of the house anyway.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, so don't give it to them and don't get, you know, give them half the money and. But more importantly, let's, in the next six months, give them a different path. That's love.

[George Camel]

Sounds great.

[Dave Ramsey]

They need love.

[Rachel Cruze]

They need to work out, build some financial muscles, some career muscles, so they can carry the weight of home ownership in the future.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then when they're. And let's visit this time next year and they're both have their own apartment or maybe they're sharing an apartment. That's great. And they both have good jobs and they're both working a lot more than they do now, and they both have a good life plan, a sustainable situation, and if something happened to y' all, then they got half the money from the house, the other two get half the money from the house, then I think everybody's good.

[George Camel]

Yeah, because it's fair. Because, I mean, we have to split it between everybody.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's fair.

[George Camel]

You know, and. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the most beautiful part of the whole conversation is, is that these young men come into themselves rather than sitting in the basement.

[George Camel]

Yes, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gorgeous thing. It's an act of love.

[George Camel]

And I needed that step too because it's been very frustrating having them still at home.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you need, you need to sit down with them and say, when I would get in trouble as a little redneck hillbilly kid, my mama would yell, the worm has turned. I had no idea what that meant other than the beatings were about to begin. Right. And so I found out later it was Shakespeare. Who knew? Mom knew Shakespeare. But yeah, the worm has turned. And it's like, hey, I got some bad news and I got some good news, honey. The bad news is you're moving out. The good news is I'm going to help you put together a plan and we're going to have a six month exit ramp. So let's sit down here tonight, start going over these materials and we're going to start working on your career. We're going to get you a driver's license and we're going to get you with a therapist and help you with anxiety and we're going to do the stuff to get you whole so you can go out here and win because you're not having fun and it makes us cry watching you and we want to smile watching you. So we're going to help you.

[Rachel Cruze]

You deserve a better quality.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're going to help you. And the eagles don't fly when they don't leave the nest. And an eagle that doesn't leave the nest, nest eventually is known as a turkey. So you have to help them fly. And they don't like themselves. Nobody likes them. They're not likable right now, but you're going to help them get there. That's the fun thing. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

When I lived at home, I was comfy, but I needed some problems, I needed some purpose. And so when I got out, I found it pretty quick.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hillbillies make it uncomfortable to stay home.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's the way to do it. You can stay here, but you're not gonna like it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not gonna like it. You don't like the rules. Hang on. We'll send you some of Ken Coleman's materials and help you with this hunt. This is the Rams. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personalities. My co host today thanks for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5 225. Katherine is in Augusta, Georgia. Hi, Katherine. How are you?

[George Camel]

Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Camel]

I was calling in. We currently own two homes. The first was our first time that we bought. And we recently bought a new home for us and turned our previous home into a rental in hopes to keep it for, you know, investment purposes and building equity. And my question is, we've had a really bad first runner experience and. And it's kind of turned us off of the investment property. And we're not sure if we should keep the property for long term purposes or if it would be best to sell it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what do you owe on it?

[George Camel]

I owe 131.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's it worth?

[George Camel]

It would probably sell no higher than 190 right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So a good way to analyze some of these decisions is to say, all right, I have $60,000 cash sitting in a pile on my kitchen table and I don't own this house. Would I go buy this house today with 60,000 down and take out 130 mortgage? It's not a hypothetical. Today. If you did not own this house and you had $60,000, which is what you're gonna have when you sell it. Right. If you had that stacked in cash on their kitchen table and you said, okay, what are we gonna do with our 60,000? One thing is we could go buy a rental property with 60,000 down, the $130,000 mortgage in the neighborhood where we used to live. Would you do that if you didn't own this?

[George Camel]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why? Because of the rental renter experience?

[George Camel]

Well, partially, but also it's. It needs some work on the home and it's not in the best area of town.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, okay. All right. So this is good. This is very good.

[George Camel]

Yeah. There's a couple aspects about it that, you know, I probably wouldn't buy it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Probably. Probably kept you from attracting a high quality tenant too.

[George Camel]

Yes. Now that. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Because it needs some work and it's in a less than desirable neighborhood.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. That's a good analysis. I like that.

[Rachel Cruze]

It sounds like you know what you want to do and what you should do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But so really what we're saying is, is the bad tenant, the bad tenant really isn't making the decision here. What's really making the decision is, is that if we were going to buy rental property, it wouldn't be there. So we ended up with this property by default, not by strategy, by default. I mean, you already owned it, so you just kept it. So you backed into it rather than intentionally entered into it. Does that make sense?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we do that a lot. All of us do that. And so what we just walked you through is called a sunk cost analysis. And you can do that with anything that you own. You can do it with a boat that's sitting in the garage. It's worth $12,000. Okay. If I had $12,000 in the middle of the table, would I go buy a boat? Yeah, we love this boat. We go out fishing every weekend. Y. Okay, then you keep the boat, right? Or heck, no, we didn't use the thing in four summers. Why? You take it up the garage with it, then, you know, sell it and put the $12,000 in your pocket. It's the same kind of thing. You just do a reverse. You reverse engineer out of where you are and say, would I do this again if I hadn't already done it? And it helps you to clarify because you were instantly started giving me really logical, good reasons. And so, yeah, you need to sell this house.

[George Camel]

Okay. Yeah. And I guess on top of that, you know, we don't have a huge margin of, like, extra funds right now. The renter is essentially squatting. So that's another reason is, you know, we. We don't even have really extra funds when no one's paying and we have to evict them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you need to get. You need to get an attorney. You need to get really, really aggressive and get them out of there. They're a thief.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

A renter. The squatting is a thief. Throw them out. Get after it.

[George Camel]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And then clean it up and sell it.

[Dave Ramsey]

No more than you would put up with somebody stealing stuff out of your garage. Do you let them sit in that house?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a thief.

[George Camel]

We are doing everything we can to get them out right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get a lawyer. That. Get a lawyer that's so mean. You don't even like them. And turn them. Turn them loose off their chain and go bite them. Get them.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's what you do. That's how you handle that. Real aggressive and. Because that's the only language that people that are thieves understand.

[George Camel]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

So you have to. You have to deal, because you can't treat them like. You treat like normal people, because these aren't normal people. These are thieves. So now, yeah. So, yeah, you guys need to sell the house because it's in a bad. It's in a less than desirable neighborhood. And it needs work. And you don't want to do those things. And you're not thrilled with being a landlord, but that's really number three. It's not number one.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Even a new tenant who's decent doesn't solve these other problems.

[George Camel]

Yes. Okay, sell it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I would do. And so that's commentary for those of you. Because real estate, everybody likes the idea. Not everybody, but a lot of people.

[Rachel Cruze]

Are intrigued by the.

[Dave Ramsey]

A lot of people want to be real estate people. They want to be a real estate investor. I want to be a real estate investor. So let me just tell you 100% of the time that you have a problem with a tenant and you're the landlord, it's your fault, not the tenants, because you let them in your house. You didn't screen well enough. You didn't ask enough questions. You didn't whatever. And so it's your fault. You set this up. And so it's like, well, I mean, they're a little crazy. I didn't know they were crazy. I know, but you should have smelled crazy. That's what you did. Smell it. You just were desperate to put somebody in there because you're tired of paying payments.

[Rachel Cruze]

You are HR for this house and you made a bad hire.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. It's the same thing I tell leaders inside Ramsey. We got 1100 team members here. And if we have a team member that goes sideways, they go, oh, those people. Look at those people. They're misbehaving. Look at you. You're the one hired them. You're the one that let them into my building. Come on, man. You know which door did crazy use put a lock on, right? We don't let them in anymore. This is not hard, y' all. And so it is hard. It's very hard. So once I established that, and I had the huge benefit of. In my 20s, I was buying low income property, bad property. And so I was dealing with really tough tenants. And so I learned real quick to be real tough on the front end before I let them in. And then if anything blinked, I was on it immediately. If there was a little bit of a hiccup, you know, the cops were over there last night. They must be doing drugs. Okay, that's a hiccup. We're going to be in there, okay? We're going to clean these people out. We don't run crack houses, okay? So that kind of stuff, we're going to be right on it. Right on it. Right on it. So I learned to be real tough on the front end and right on the problem real quick. And so then when you're dealing with a high class tenant, then the same thing works but you don't have to be as rude about it. That's true. But you still go, okay, I'm going to be tough on on the front end so I don't have a problem later. I would rather run you off. You get mad about us being too thorough because I want to get paid when you and I don't want you to tear up my house. It's not hard.

[Rachel Cruze]

Got to protect your investment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Part of it it's freaking drama. If you don't want to do all that stuff, you don't need to be doing real estate.

[Rachel Cruze]

Just leave it in a mutual fund. You can make money with less hassle factor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like virtually no hassle factor compared. You won't make as much. But yeah, don't, don't, don't deal with this unless you want to deal with it. That's why I laugh when people say, oh, it's passive income bull crap. Anything passive at all about owning real estate.

[Rachel Cruze]

Does having more money and less stress sound nice but feel impossible? Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it. You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out. From credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps. So if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead. You can get Breaking Free from broke [e-mail] store. That's ramseysolutions.com store.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and you work too hard to not get any better traction than you do, well, you need to get a plan and that's called a budget. All the people that build wealth use budgets. All the people that get out of debt use budgets. We use a plan. You don't accidentally win at anything, boys and girls. Our team's hosting a free budgeting training this month. Month. Several of them as a matter of fact. These are free. You'll learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget using EveryDollar. Plus, you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q and A. Sign up for free at EveryDollar.com webinar. Spots are limited. Sign up for free at EveryDollar.com Webinar. Josephine's in Michigan. Hey Josephine, what's up?

[George Camel]

Hi, Dave, thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[George Camel]

Help. So I'm calling on behalf of my mom. She is 54 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you say 64 or 54? 54.

[George Camel]

5.

[Dave Ramsey]

4. Okay. All right, go ahead. I'm sorry.

[George Camel]

That's okay. She's newly married for the first time. She's considering selling her house now that she is married and moved in with her husband, although she's not 100% certain that she wants to do that. She's recently confided in me on what would be the smartest decision for her from a financial standpoint. Point. And if she does sell the house, what's the smartest thing to do with those profits from the sale?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, they're not living in the house, and we would assume if they're married, they're living together. So the house is sitting empty, Correct?

[George Camel]

The house is sitting. Would be sitting empty.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, would be. When are they get married?

[George Camel]

Recently, within the last few months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are they not living together now?

[George Camel]

The transition is happening right now, so as of next month, the house will be empty.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why did it take three months to join your new husband?

[George Camel]

I'm not sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's weird. Okay. All right.

[George Camel]

But starting in July, there will be nobody in the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you like the new guy?

[George Camel]

Yes, I do. He's great. He's wonderful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Why wouldn't she sell the house?

[Dave Ramsey]

House.

[George Camel]

I think that two things. So, one, there is a sentimental attachment to the house. She's a single mom and raised me in that house, so there is the sentimental piece to that. But also, she does not have anything in retirement. So this is really the only form of quote unquote investment that she really has with her money. And I can give you some more background on the specifics of her financial situation as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would sell it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is it paid off?

[George Camel]

It is not paid off. She has about 40,000 left on the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mortgage, I would say. We're thinking this lady does not need to be a landlord.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It does not sound like she. She. You. And you don't keep a house as a keepsake. And if you have your. You take your sentimental thing and you put a renter in it, it's going to really be emotional.

[George Camel]

Yeah. What. What's the smartest thing she should do with the sale of that house and she does not have anything in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Retire with a smartvestor pro and put it in four mutual funds. Growth, growth in income, aggressive growth and international with long track records like I do with mine and George does with his.

[Rachel Cruze]

So how much is the house worth, do you think?

[George Camel]

We think it could be worth about 200.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's great. So let me give you a couple numbers. Let me give you a couple numbers. Okay. The stock market is in the last two years. If it had been just in a simple S and P, which is not a very sophisticated investment, but it's just a simple place to park some money. And it's. The stock market average is what the S and P is. You would have made 20, she would have made 25% and 24%. The average over the last hundred years is about 11.8%. Okay.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so let me. If you take 200 and you're 54 and you park it, and if it makes 10%, it'll double every seven years without touching it. Okay. And so that means at 61, she's got 400. That means at 68, she's got 800. And that means at 75, she's got 1.6 million.

[George Camel]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

See why I sold the house?

[George Camel]

Yeah. Can she put all of that money in at one time? Because originally I, I was. Okay, I was looking at a, you know, Roth iras. I know you can only put so much in at one time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. This isn't. This isn't an ira. This is going to be a taxable.

[Rachel Cruze]

Event, just a normal taxable account. That's not retirement. And she'll probably net. Let's say she nets 120 grand after paying off the mortgage and all the fees. Right?

[George Camel]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

I crunch the numbers from 54 to 72.

[Dave Ramsey]

I use 200. I'm sorry, I use the wrong number.

[Rachel Cruze]

But it's close by 72. At that 12% return Dave mentioned, she'll have over a million bucks sitting in that one account.

[George Camel]

Without even putting more.

[Dave Ramsey]

Into it, without putting anything else into it. That's just growth.

[George Camel]

Wow. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's. If you pick good mutual funds that have done a little bit less than the stock market has averaged.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which really wouldn't be the definition of a good mutual fund. That would be a poorly performing mutual fund if it averages less than the stock market is averaged. But, yeah, that's the kind. So sit down with a good. Go to ramseysolutions.com and hit Smartvestor Pro and sit down with one of those folks that are in that business. They don't work for us, but we vet them for having the heart of a teacher, and we know that they are going to give them advice very, very close to what you hear here on the air.

[Rachel Cruze]

So the Key is your mom will understand exactly what's happening, not just being told what's going to happen. She's going to be in the driver's seat.

[Dave Ramsey]

A keepsake is a Bible. Your grandpa's hand tools, your great grandpa's gun that he shot squirrels with in Kentucky. Those are keepsakes. Okay, sure. Your grandmother's Bible, your grandmother's shawl, your grandmother's diamond ring. Those are keepsakes. Houses are not keepsakes. Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

You know, it'd be a nice gift. Get a little watercolor painting of the house and she can frame it in her new place. Yeah, wouldn't that be nice?

[Dave Ramsey]

That'd be cool. And take a bunch of pictures and build out one of those cool books or something to remember it by. Cause it is a valid place where a warrior princess, a single mom, went to battle and won all those years. And so it's a good thing to remember it, but we don't keep it for that reason.

[George Camel]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay.

[George Camel]

Awesome. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're great. You're a great daughter, and I think you're. I think she's going to do great.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's cool. That's very cool, man. After all these years, 54.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm just impressed at 54. Found love for the first time like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's neat. Very neat.

[Rachel Cruze]

So for those of you out there who are wondering, is it ever going to happen? For me, just know it absolutely can.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's as opposed to the girl who Jade and I talked with yesterday.

[Rachel Cruze]

Who was that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you hear Jade?

[Rachel Cruze]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jade has a talent. We didn't know. Jade is a professional catfish detector and catcher.

[Rachel Cruze]

Like a catfish scammer? No, she caught it in the call.

[Dave Ramsey]

She caught it in the call. The guy lady called up and said, do we. Do I break up with my boyfriend? He wants me to cash out my 401k and put it in his crypto.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm sitting there going, well, this guy's either an idiot or he's a con man, and idiots are more prevalent than con men. And then as we're going down in the call, Jade goes, wait a minute. Have you ever actually met him? Is this all online? And she started crying and she just saw online, oh, it's a catfish. And Jade caught a catfish. And she live on the air.

[Rachel Cruze]

Spared this lady who knows how much hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Dave Ramsey]

We broke her heart right in front of her.

[Rachel Cruze]

But yeah, yeah, that is the hardest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Part, is she was crying because she believed that the. This was real romance and it was a Boiler room in Russia. Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Complete catfish.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's sad that a scammer in Russia has more riz and romance than real men in today's society. That they can scam these poor ladies out of hundreds of thousands of dollars just by communicating and being interested in their life. That's what's sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you find vulnerable people is what you find. You came out of a bad, toxic breakup. Set you up.

[Rachel Cruze]

Anyone that gives you attention, you go, all right.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I. But I. I mean, Jade. Who knew?

[Rachel Cruze]

That's amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jade. Jade's the catfish woman. She can pick them out, man. It's pretty cool. Proud of her.

[Rachel Cruze]

A woman of many skills.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right. Who knew? Who knew? So we're gonna. We're gonna have to get her a little plaque, actually. We probably need to get, like, one of those stuffed catfish and put it on the wall.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right above her.

[Rachel Cruze]

She would love that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right above her desk.

[Rachel Cruze]

I think she eats fish.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not a real fish, George.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, it's like a tank. Taxidermy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, like a taxidermy. Catfish. To hang above her. Hang above her desk.

[Rachel Cruze]

I was excited for an old.

[Dave Ramsey]

We should give it to her as an award in staff meeting.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

That'd be awesome.

[Rachel Cruze]

Dave's got some ideas. We'll see if HR allows us.

[Dave Ramsey]

HR is not in charge. I am. I own it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's how this works.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'll go now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buying and selling a home is a big deal, and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, Listen to your needs, and have your best back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit Ramsey Solutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent on the debt free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Wade and Carissa are here. Hey, guys. How are you? Good, Dave. Welcome. Where do y' all live? We live in Pine Grove, Pennsylvania.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's about 45 minutes northeast of Harrisburg.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Fun. Welcome to Nashville. Thanks for having us. How much debt have you Two paid off?

[Rachel Cruze]

291,700.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa. And how long did this take?

[Rachel Cruze]

About eight years, 11 months and 20 days.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. And your range of income during that eight years?

[Rachel Cruze]

When we first got married, we started at 108, and we ended last year about 205.

[Dave Ramsey]

Excellent. What do you all do for a living?

[Rachel Cruze]

I drive truck for a food distributor.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm a registered nurse. Okay, cool. And you guys got married eight years ago about. Yeah. And sat down and hold all this up. Is this your house and everything?

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure is.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have a paid for house. That's whacked. How old are you weirdos? I'm 33. I'm 32. I love it. I love it. Congratulations. Very cool. What's the house worth?

[Rachel Cruze]

About 390.

[Dave Ramsey]

We just added assessed. Excellent. And how much have you guys got in your retirement plans now?

[Rachel Cruze]

Probably around 275.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, very cool. You're going to be millionaires in about 20, 20 more minutes. Yeah. Not long, man. Way to go. I'm proud of y' all.

[George Camel]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. So eight years ago, you get married and both of you had a pile of debt, and you had. One of you had this house, I guess. Sure did. Yeah. Okay. That was me. And so you looked down. Was the house the whole thing?

[Rachel Cruze]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we had about our baby step.

[Rachel Cruze]

Two debt was about 100,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so the house. 190. Yep. Okay, cool. Very cool. All right. So what. How'd you get connected to this Ramsey stuff and decided to. To do all this?

[Rachel Cruze]

So I was listening to another radio show, and he's talking about, if you want to get your money in shape.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is the first place to start listening to Total Money Makeover.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I was like, yeah, I'm.

[George Camel]

I'm.

[Rachel Cruze]

I think I'm pretty good, but I'll listen, see if I can pick something up. And I was hooked immediately.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. We were not good. We were not good. Okay. We were very normal. I'm good. Until I looked down and looked at all of it.

[Rachel Cruze]

We call that problem on unaware. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Very good. Very good, you guys. I'm proud of y' all. Excellent. Okay, so you sit down, you're newly married. You do the total money makeover book, and you say, not good. We have a problem. And so Carissa Wade's the one digging all this up. He comes in, goes. We have. What did you say? I was not on board at first. I bet.

[Rachel Cruze]

Did he come in too hot? What did he do wrong?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it was almost just like, not even at all. It was like, not a conversation. It was just like, let's just do this. And I was like. I was maybe 22 years old.

[Rachel Cruze]

I was like, nah, I don't know. That doesn't sound fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

That doesn't sound like anything I want to do.

[Rachel Cruze]

I have plenty of ideas.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she took it skeptically. Yeah, I hear a lot of ideas. And I was like, I don't know about that. And then once we actually sat down, that I was able to get on.

[Rachel Cruze]

This isn't one of his schemes.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is real. He's a little bit. But yeah, he actually. He did good this time.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's a long journey.

[Dave Ramsey]

How does it feel? How does it feel to be 32 years old and have every single thing in the world pay for no debt? It feels incredible.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's like we have every opportunity in front of us and so many possibilities in the future.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're free, I'm free. That's a whole different kind of life. Liberty.

[Rachel Cruze]

So did you guys just barrel through baby step two into three, and then just went, let's keep going and knock out the mortgage. So we. We went very gazelle intense in baby step two and three. That baby step two took us about 18 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's.

[Rachel Cruze]

Baby step three took another six months after that. So once we hit baby step four, we did kind of relax for a while.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're supposed to. Yeah, supposed to. You're supposed to. Supposed to be intentional, not intense. When you get to baby you step four. Yeah. And then the last 12 months, we on the house.

[Rachel Cruze]

We paid off about 72,000 in the last 12 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you turned it back up?

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, yeah. Is it because you could see the finish line, you're like, we're under the 100,000 mark. Let's just go. So Carissa actually had a job loss.

[Dave Ramsey]

During COVID Nurse mandates, all that stuff. So we said, we're not going to.

[Rachel Cruze]

Be in a position where we're going.

[Dave Ramsey]

To be forced to go to work. So we stepped it up. Wow. That was good motivation for us. Good, good. Way to go.

[Rachel Cruze]

Now. Are you downshifting again now? Relaxing.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got $200,000 income, no doubt. What are you gonna do? What. What big thing you gonna do to celebrate?

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, we brought the whole family here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's a decent start. I mean, what are you gonna do? Big. Come on, man. Does she need a new car, A better car? No, we.

[Rachel Cruze]

We upgraded her in baby step four, five, six, so she's in good, good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Shape there, I think. I drive older cars, but I love driving older cars. All right. People make fun of my cars. That's a good. Those are good cars to have.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, I see one. Is that yours in the photo? If you're watching, that is my baby step two car.

[George Camel]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

That was like one of Dave's old cars. That's how old that That's a year older than me. Hey, hey, it could be in the Smithsonian.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, hey, hey. That car looks awesome to me, George. You need to shut up, Tesla breath. Oh, that's okay. All right. Wow. Oh, man. So, copper guy. This is so cool, y' all. Well done.

[Rachel Cruze]

We have property.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dreams of owning property. So that's our. You'll be able to. Yeah. Try to be great and travel. Yeah, yeah. What's the first big trip? Let's. Let's plan a trip. Well, we did a big trip. What'd you do two years ago? We did a cross country road trip. Oh, that's fun. Four weeks.

[George Camel]

Four weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow. 10,000 miles on the ground car. So we did it up good that time. So now we're kind of going back and revisiting the places that we spent a day in love, trying to go back, like Grand Teton National Park, Yellowstone. Oh, cool.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. That's. That's a good use for money. I like it.

[Rachel Cruze]

And you guys had some life happen on the way. Literally. You've had some kids along this nine year journey. Were they a part of this? Do they know what's going on here?

[Dave Ramsey]

They're slowly starting to realize. Yeah. That you two have changed your whole family tree. Their lives will never be the same.

[Rachel Cruze]

The reason we've done all this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Their lives will never be the same because of you. Way to go. So proud of you. Thank you. You're heroes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done. Well done, man. Very, very, very cool. I love it.

[Rachel Cruze]

What would you tell that person in their 20s, maybe even early 30s, who feels like this is a pipe dream, like, maybe I'll pay off my house when I retire?

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, the earlier you say start.

[Rachel Cruze]

The quicker it happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

The earlier you start, the less of a mess you make before you start. So I would say get on board as soon as possible.

[Rachel Cruze]

Don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't wait around until you're in your 30s to start living life and start, you know, doing adult things. Start as early as possible. Have you talked anybody in your friend group or your family into doing the Ramsey stuff? We have not. Nobody done it yet?

[George Camel]

Nope, Nope.

[Dave Ramsey]

We've kept it pretty much reserved. I mean, we try not to push it on anybody.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we don't want to be those people.

[Rachel Cruze]

So if people ask questions, we have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Friends that have asked.

[Rachel Cruze]

We have some family that have asked.

[Dave Ramsey]

But we mostly keep it to ourselves. Yeah, well, you need to. You need to celebrate. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Well done. Very, very good. All right. Bring the kiddos up. What are their names and ages?

[Rachel Cruze]

We got Lucas.

[Dave Ramsey]

He is seven or eight.

[George Camel]

And Eliza is seven.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, Very cool. Very cool. And a big trip to Nashville. Here to celebrate. I love it. I love it. Well, your kids, your mom and dad are heroes. They're pretty incredible. Your whole lives are going to be different just because of them. Because they're acting like grown ups in a society full of children. So amazing. Absolutely amazing. All right, Wade and Carissa. Lucas and Eliza. Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. 292,000 paid off in eight years, 11 months making 108 to 2, 205, debt free house and everything. Soon to be baby steps millionaires. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt free. Yeah. This is wild.

[Rachel Cruze]

Can you imagine the generational wealth that created by people like this on our debt free stage that are in their 30s become completely debt free?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, they're going to be worth 10 or 12 million dollars. I mean, easy could change in unless they really screw it up. I mean, it's pretty incredible. Yeah, it's pretty incredible. The thing that just rings in my ears is all we hear is, you know, from the media or the social media garbage is that, you know, millennials can't make it today. Their homeownership's out of reach. Wait a minute. They own their. They paid it off. Shut up. I think they're millennials.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I mean, they're about my age.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think 32. 32 makes them solid millennials.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. And don't tell me that there's no good millennials. I see them all the time on this stage.

[Rachel Cruze]

I don't see any entitlement here. No lack of work ethic.

[Dave Ramsey]

I didn't hear any lack of responsibility. I heard somebody just did it, baby.

[Rachel Cruze]

They happened to their life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get up, leave the cave, kill something and drag it home, man. That's what you do. Well done. Look at these heroes. Gross. It's amazing. I love it. This is the Ramsay show. You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramseysolutions.com smartvestor to get connected.

[Rachel Cruze]

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day, Colossians 3:14. Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds us all together in perfect harmony. Earl Wilson says this would be a much better world if married couples were as deeply in love as they are in debt.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, I haven't heard that one before.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's pretty good, Earl.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty good, man. I'll go with that one. All right. Michelle's in Lubbock, Texas. Hey, Michelle, what's up?

[George Camel]

Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Bear with me. I'm nervous, but I need some kind of direction in my life right now. Question is, should we buy buy a van or should we wait or when? So the situation is my husband got laid off from his job about a year ago and he got one now, thank God, he was having trouble finding one. And he had job for 18 years. And we did the baby steps, I guess about three years ago we were on baby step three, fixing to move to baby step four. And that's when he got laid off. So we had to use the emergency fund and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good thing you had it.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Yes. Right on time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so now the situation is we have.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's back, he's back to work now.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you rebuilt your emergency fund?

[George Camel]

Well, we still have about 5,000 in there, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so. But you have, you rebuilt it to where it should be three to six months.

[George Camel]

It's at three months. Yeah, it's about three months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And so. Yeah, so. And then we also had large lumps of money that he got as well. So we also had to use that, but that is gone. And so now the situation is we have two cars and they're both paid off. They're old, older cars and they're both having problems. We had used 700 to go to the AC unit in my car which is still struggling. We've been back and forth with them for a long time now and we've got corporate involved and we're working towards fixing it. His car is in the shop currently. And we have a one year old grandson that we take care of to daycare back and forth and help my son and his wife. And then they have another one on the way. So there'll be two grandbabies that we need to, you know, pick up from daycare sometimes or drop them off anyway. So the problem is we need a van because I have a Nissan Sentra 2015 Nissan Sentra. And it's very small. The AC, of course, is not working. We have a daughter as well, 15 year old. So AC is very tight on space. And I didn't know if we should use the emergency fund to go towards the van. And we're looking in maybe the $10,000 range.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not an emergency.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

The repair is the emergency. The actual purchase of another vehicle and isn't.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, I, I understand why you want it to haul the grandkids around, and I think that's a valid thing. I. I don't disagree with that, but it's not an emergency. So, I mean, what. What is your household income?

[George Camel]

Roughly about 60,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Husband working 40 hours.

[George Camel]

Yes. Time? Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

That's together.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're both working 40 hours.

[George Camel]

Correct. I mean, it's not like exactly 60,000. It's somewhere in that range.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You're not making much.

[George Camel]

Yeah, yeah. And we usually, you know, work a lot of overtime. Well, since he's not at. We worked together previously and we would get lots of overtime, so that's usually how we make extra income. And now limit time is over. Overtime is limited at both of our employment.

[Rachel Cruze]

What are you doing for work?

[George Camel]

I'm at work at a semiconductor foundry.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I think you guys develop either some overtime or some side hustles and Quickly pile up $10,000. If you want to buy a $10,000 car, what would your. What would your car sell for?

[George Camel]

Oh, not very much.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I was thinking.

[George Camel]

Not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, maybe two or three thousand.

[George Camel]

Yes, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So you need to. If you could get three out of it, then you'd need to save up seven to do a $10,000 van, right?

[George Camel]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or maybe save up five and get an $8,000 van.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Does it need to be a van? Could it be an SUV or a larger sedan? Because really, you're just trying to fit two car seats. That's the goal.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a 15 year old.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Yeah. And a 15 year old. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I, you know, van does not necessarily mean 10k, right. It could mean 7k, it could mean 37k. Right. You know, vans come in all price ranges, just like cars do, so. And ages and everything else. So I think that's what you're looking for. But no, I. What? Normally what happens is that when you get a bunch of car repairs back to back to back to back, you get frustrated and the frustration makes you want to lurch into something that's dumb. And here's how we know it's dumb. What if you had bought that van and had no emergency fund, and he got laid off the next day at that other job.

[George Camel]

Yes. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. That's what I don't want you to be. Okay. So that's how I know this isn't an emergency. Yeah, it's a. It's a good want, and it's something to work toward, and I would get with it. I would save everything I could get, squeeze everything out of the budget and try to create some extra income and get there. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I'm just saying I don't want to leave you vulnerable because that's what you. That's what you would be. You'd be back in a mess, wouldn't you?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I think we're going to stick with our plan here and pay cash.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

You'll regret it if you drain the emergency fund for this purchase.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's like you're inviting an emergency when you do that. Jorge is with us in Miami. Hey, Jorge, how are you?

[George Camel]

I'm good. How are you doing, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Do you go by Jorge or George?

[George Camel]

Either one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. How can we help?

[George Camel]

So, Dave, the reason for my call is because I just need help just getting myself together again. I mean, I make my money, my wife makes money, but I'm constantly over budget. That's. That's basically my life. I mean, and I've been, you know, living paycheck to paycheck for a while now. And every time that I get myself out of it, I get myself back into. It's just not. It's a revolving door. And what I figured out, at least in the short term, until I get under a budget that I can maintain under my regular salary, I need to make a little bit extra cash on the side, and I need help with what recommendations. You guys would have to be able to do that. So that basically, that was the reason for my call and just to try to get myself. My head around where I need to start, what I need to look at, how I need to detail everything, because I.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you guys make that I.

[George Camel]

Use between the both of us were around 270k a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. So it's not. It's not a lack of money money?

[George Camel]

No, it's not a lack of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just disorganized, in chaos.

[Rachel Cruze]

And when you say over budget, it sounds like you're not doing a budget. An actual written budget.

[George Camel]

Well, I do have one, and I can show you. And I can send it to you, but it's just not working. I need to start.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not sticking to it.

[George Camel]

It's. Yeah, that's what it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

It works fine. It's you that doesn't work.

[George Camel]

It's me.

[Rachel Cruze]

So, yeah, sure. I love your honesty. That's honestly a very refreshing.

[George Camel]

That's why I called you. That's why.

[Rachel Cruze]

So if we looked at your bank statement at your actual expenses that are going out, what would you say is the major issue here? Is it eating out? Is it doordash extra.

[George Camel]

Extra spending?

[Rachel Cruze]

The overall what category?

[George Camel]

My month. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's. It's the overall overspending on either groceries or eating out. But it's more than that. It's just the grocery portion of it. Whenever there's something missing, I go and get. Get it. And it's just.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm over budget.

[George Camel]

I'm over. It's just. That's what it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you have budgeted for groceries?

[George Camel]

I have budgeted for groceries about per month, but I pay groceries every two weeks, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

It's about $600 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

A month?

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many children do you have?

[George Camel]

One.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's. I don't think it's ridiculously low for three people making $270,000. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're bringing home 15 or 20k a month. I don't think the $600 in groceries or even $1,000 in groceries is the problem here.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not. I mean, he can't stick to it because he's got it set too low. It's unrealistically low for somebody that makes $270,000. Right?

[George Camel]

Right. Well, the house makes 70. 270. I make 150.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but the house is. The house is in the budget, isn't it?

[George Camel]

Oh, yeah, it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're working together on this hypothetical.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So we're gonna sit down, we're gonna spend out 270,000. But we know we're blowing the grocery budget every month, and Dave says it's cause it's too low. Let's raise it to 1,200.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't kill the budget. It's 600 bucks. All right, now let's live on that and then don't go over it. Act like your life depends on it. Get disgusted enough with the situation to.

[Rachel Cruze]

Fix it and cut everything. That is not adding direct value that's necessary for your life right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Friend of mine just lost 150 pounds and I asked him how and he said, I got disgusted. There it is. That's how you do it. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[George Camel]

Hey, you guys. I was shocked to learn that 88% of you out there are sharing the Ramsey Shop show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey101 YouTube playlist. A quick start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsey plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So here's what's in sack, what the baby steps are and why they actually work, how the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast, and how to build wealth and invest for the future and so much more. So here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube playlist. Copy it, text it, send it in a group chat. Just say, hey, I thought this might help. Because one playlist shared at the right time, time could be the turning point. One share, one playlist, one step could change everything for that one person in your life. So click the link, share the Ramsey show, and let's help someone out there start winning with money.