Debt Is Never the Problem, It’s Always the Symptom

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show - "Debt Is Never the Problem, It’s Always the Symptom"

Release Date: December 2, 2024
Host/Author: Ramsey Network
Episode Title: Debt Is Never the Problem, It’s Always the Symptom

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Overview

In this insightful episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey and his co-host Dr. John Deloney delve deep into the underlying issues that manifest as debt in individuals' financial lives. They emphasize that debt often signals deeper financial or emotional challenges rather than being the root cause of financial woes. Throughout the episode, Ramsey and Deloney engage with several callers, providing tailored advice to help listeners navigate their unique financial predicaments.

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1. Darlene from Philadelphia: Career Move vs. Pension

Timestamp: [01:01]
Question:
Darlene, a 54-year-old healthcare professional, seeks advice on whether to accept a job offer in upstate New York. She currently earns approximately $105,000 with significant overtime, enjoys a $400/month pension, and worries about losing her overtime income and pension benefits if she relocates.

Discussion & Insights:
Ramsey and Deloney analyze the financial implications of staying versus moving, considering factors like cost of living, taxes, and quality of life. They stress the importance of evaluating personal happiness and long-term goals over mere financial metrics.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey: "The numbers are fairly equal... so the question comes down to where does Darlene want to live and where does Darlene want to work." [03:25]

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2. Jared from Oklahoma City: Saving for a First Home

Timestamp: [11:47]
Question:
Jared, a 23-year-old pest control professional, is on track to save over 20% for a down payment on his first home, currently saving $26,000 with an annual income of $70,000. He seeks guidance on completing his savings strategy.

Discussion & Insights:
Ramsey advises Jared to secure an emergency fund before finalizing his down payment and emphasizes the importance of purchasing a home that is affordable and easy to resell, avoiding properties that might become financial burdens.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey: "Don't buy a project. Something you have to work on all the time." [15:09]

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3. Kaden from Greenville, South Carolina: Preparing for Medical School

Timestamp: [17:16]
Question:
Kaden, a recent Clemson graduate earning around $60,000 (potentially up to $80,000 with overtime), plans to attend medical school in two years. He inquires about the best strategies to save for the expensive education.

Discussion & Insights:
Ramsey recommends aggressive saving and avoiding student loans, urging Kaden to attend an affordable medical school and potentially pay for it with savings accumulated by maintaining disciplined financial habits.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey: "You're never going to borrow money, have you?" [18:48]

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4. Lauren from St. Paul: Transitioning Insurance Policies

Timestamp: [20:43]
Question:
Lauren and her husband, aged 62 and 64, are considering cashing in their whole life insurance policies to invest in long-term care insurance, as suggested by their financial advisor. They seek Dave Ramsey's opinion on this transition.

Discussion & Insights:
Ramsey assesses their financial stability without life insurance and advises on the merits of long-term care insurance, emphasizing the importance of shopping around for the best rates and understanding the coverage details.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey: "If you don't like it, you can change it. But yeah, I think that's a good idea." [06:07]

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5. Christina from San Francisco: Building a Home on Owned Land

Timestamp: [27:37]
Question:
Christina, a disabled veteran receiving $4,200/month in disability benefits, has purchased land for $250,000 with a 25% down payment but struggles to afford building a home. She resides in a travel trailer and seeks advice on managing her finances and housing plans.

Discussion & Insights:
Ramsey advises Christina to sell the land if she cannot afford to build a home without assistance, cautioning against overextending financially and highlighting the importance of aligning housing expenses with income.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey: "You can't afford to build on it, huh? That's what you told me." [29:52]

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6. Ann from Phoenix: Handling Medical Emergencies with Limited Insurance

Timestamp: [42:13]
Question:
Ann faces an ectopic pregnancy requiring emergency surgery. Her husband advocates using their emergency fund to cover out-of-pocket medical expenses while battling insurance coverage delays.

Discussion & Insights:
Ramsey strongly supports using the emergency fund for necessary medical care, emphasizing that such funds are precisely for unexpected and urgent situations. He also suggests shopping around for more affordable medical services.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey: "You need to go and take care of yourself, kiddo." [44:00]

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7. Jennifer from Portland, Maine: Managing Inherited Debt and Assets

Timestamp: [59:00]
Question:
Jennifer is the sole inheritor of her 77-year-old cousin’s estate, which includes a paid-off home worth $150,000 but with a $30,000 HELOC, $4,300 in back taxes, and $30,000 in unpaid credit cards. She seeks advice on whether to settle these debts or let the estate handle them.

Discussion & Insights:
Ramsey advises against paying off Jennifer's cousin's debts personally, highlighting the risks of enabling continued financial irresponsibility. He recommends allowing the estate to manage the debts, as direct intervention may lead to further financial complications.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey: "This woman has a track record that's abysmal. It's like every time something gets cleaned up, she messes it up again." [60:30]

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8. Brady from Brenham, Texas: Job Change and Relocation Struggles

Timestamp: [64:12]
Question:
Brady, a mechanical engineer in Brenham, Texas, is considering relocating closer to Houston for better job opportunities that offer higher salaries. However, his wife is resistant to moving away from her close-knit family.

Discussion & Insights:
Ramsey emphasizes the importance of compromise in marriage, stressing that financial goals should align with personal relationships. He advises Brady to pursue job opportunities that fulfill their financial ambitions while finding ways to maintain family connections.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey: "You can't have this both ways. You can't say, oh, you need to make more money. We live in a dinky town that doesn't have a whole list of mechanical engineers." [68:05]

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9. Abigail from Tallahassee, Florida: Encouraging Spousal Support for Debt Repayment

Timestamp: [73:38]
Question:
Abigail struggles to get her husband on board with the debt snowball method for managing their combined $70,000 debt. Despite a household income of $113,000, her husband prefers separate finances, hindering their joint debt reduction efforts.

Discussion & Insights:
Ramsey advises Abigail to approach the situation with empathy and communication, suggesting she apologize for her earlier approach and work collaboratively to align their financial strategies. He underscores the importance of joint financial management in achieving debt-free goals.

Notable Quote:
Dave Ramsey: "Don't spray and pray. That's not what we're doing. So we're actually going to use a little bit of finesse here." [81:05]

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Key Takeaways

1. Debt as a Symptom: Debt often indicates deeper financial or personal issues. Addressing the root causes is essential for long-term financial health.
2. Budgeting and Financial Planning: Creating and adhering to a structured budget is crucial for managing money effectively and achieving financial goals.
3. Emergency Funds: These funds are vital for unexpected expenses and should not be siphoned away for non-emergencies.
4. Insurance Decisions: Carefully evaluate the need for different insurance types, ensuring they align with your financial situation and future needs.
5. Communication in Finances: Open and empathetic communication between spouses is key to successful financial planning and debt management.
6. Career and Financial Goals Alignment: Personal and professional decisions, such as job changes or relocations, should balance financial benefits with quality of life and personal relationships.

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Conclusion

In "Debt Is Never the Problem, It’s Always the Symptom," Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney provide compassionate and practical advice to callers facing various financial challenges. The episode underscores the importance of understanding the underlying issues behind debt and offers actionable steps to foster financial stability and growth.

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Notable Resources Mentioned:

• EveryDollar App: A budgeting tool recommended by Ramsey for managing finances effectively.
• Zander Insurance: Offered term life insurance options as a more affordable alternative to cash value policies.
• Billy App: Suggested for transparent pricing of medical procedures to avoid overpaying.

For more detailed advice and resources, listeners are encouraged to visit Ramsey Solutions or download The Ramsey Network app.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey you guys, Cyber Monday deals are here so shop meaningful Christmas gifts that.

[George Camel]

Won'T bust your budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right [e-mail] store. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, author of the number one best selling book Breaking Free from Broke. He is my co host today and we're here to help you guys. Also check him out on YouTube. That show is going to zoom. Zoom. Phone number here is 888-825-5225. Darlene is in Philadelphia. Hi Darlene, how are you?

[George Camel]

Hi, Dave. I'm great. Thanks for taking my call. I feel blessed today talking to the both of you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we're honored to have you. How can we help?

[George Camel]

So I just wanted some financial advice or thoughts. I'm 54. I've never been married. I have no children. I live in a different state than where I grew up. And as I'm aging I'm realizing that I will likely move back to my home state to have that support in aging in about 10 to 11, 11 years when I retire. But a job opportunity came up this past fall that I applied for and wasn't expecting to get. But they did offer me the job and I just have some financial concerns about it. Not sure if it's wise for me to move back now. So one is the salary and this is through negotiation. They're offering me what I was making last year at my current employer. Currently I have a pension. If I leave now, what do you make? I make right Now I make 104, almost 105. But I also, we have a lot of overtime. I work in healthcare and I'll be making like gross about 11,000 in the overtime this year. We have a pension. If I leave now, It'll be about $400 a month as opposed to possibly, like I think I figured out possibly $1,800 a month. The overtime, they're 403. Beep. They don't start matching. I have to be there a full year before they start matching.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what are they going to pay you?

[George Camel]

What?

[Dave Ramsey]

What are they going to pay you?

[George Camel]

Base 102 5.

[Dave Ramsey]

And where is it?

[George Camel]

It's in upstate New York. It's in Binghamton, New York.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm guessing less expensive than the Philadelphia area that you're in now.

[George Camel]

It really isn't about the same housing. Housing is, but, and I go back frequently because I have an elderly father and my family' really? It's not. There's a lot more taxes. Income tax is going to be more than what I pay here. Utilities. I was just looking at my dad's utility bill, and they tax a lot compared to what they do here in Pennsylvania.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can you afford to live there comfortably? Are you debt free with an emergency fund? This wouldn't really cramp your lifestyle too much?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

The numbers are fairly equal. You're not giving me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're not telling me it's not a 50% pay cut.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's not like 150 versus 100. It's 102 versus 104 versus a little bit of difference in cost of living one way or the other. A little bit of taxes one way or the other. So the question comes down to where does Darlene want to live and where does Darlene want to work?

[George Camel]

Okay. Because I was concerned about the pension. Losing that money for the pension, as well as the overtime that they don't give. Like, I wouldn't make overtime there. They. I wouldn't have to work as much.

[Dave Ramsey]

But what does Darlene want to do?

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, we want to be working.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Over to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you want to do?

[George Camel]

You know, I'm used to the money, and I. I gotta be honest, Dave. Everything that you speak is how my parents raised us. I mean, it's to a T. So just. I just want to make sure I have enough money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you nursing?

[George Camel]

Moving bed? Am I what?

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you a nurse?

[George Camel]

I'm in rehab. I'm a speech therapist.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you can pick up side hustles, too, if you wanted to.

[George Camel]

I can, but I did side hustles for like, 22 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm saying if you're going to overtime. Overtime is called side hustle. It's the same thing.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you were up there and you picked up a side gig doing some tutoring, so to speak, then you could offset the overtime difference. So it really does come down to quality of life, because the numbers you're giving me aren't like, whoa, you know, there's not a real. There's not a real thing that breaks the camel's back here. So no straw here.

[George Camel]

So that's what I wanted to get clear. Because just the pen. The thing was the pension and the overtime, that and me off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're a very analytical person, and I am, too. But I want you to just say, okay, God, which of these two things gives me peace?

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

What causes you to exhale? And as Deloney says, your shoulders drop. Is it staying or is it going? And that's the answer to my question. If I'm you. What do you think, George?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, well, I think there's more than the numbers here that she needs to dig into. Of what is. Is it the fear of just change at 54? Is it. Is it going to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's going to do it anyway.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is the grass greener on that side? What if I move and life isn't different? And so that's the stuff you got to grapple with on top of just doing the budget. And I think the numbers are going to work themselves out. It's more the other pieces that I think she's really concerned about.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no grass that's green up there this time of year on either.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's going to be cold either way, Darlene. So just make the move, be closer to family and you're a hard worker. You're going to be fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're going to be okay. And yeah, nothing's set in stone. And by the way, if you don't like it, you can change it. But yeah, I think that's a good idea. You know, it is real smart to look at cost of living because everyone automatically assumes and she's very wise to have done the research she's done. They automatically assume if you're going to a different area that it's going to be a lot more, it's going to be a lot less. And sometimes it is. But main factor in that, as she recognizes, usually real estate. Oh yeah, usually that's the main difference. I mean, the difference in, you know, Los Angeles or San Francisco and you know, small town USA is, you know, gas prices, little bread and eggs, little housing a lot.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's the one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's the one that throws you and it just changes everything.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In Tennessee we have no income tax. So people don't realize if you get a job in Tennessee even of a pay cut, it might be equal comparatively to California or New York where you have a lot of income taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's those. You know, I was noticing a p. An article this morning. The a million people have left New York and California.

[George Camel]

Wow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We've been covering this since COVID with the migration in the last 12 months and it just has continued.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's continued. And. And they're landing in income tax free states. Texas at Texas and Florida are the two primaries and Tennessee falls in there too, but they landed income tax free states and they land in states that were open during the draconian shutdowns and so freedom issues and so financial and political. I mean, a million people have been displaced. Wow. A million. And left those two states and went somewhere else. So, yeah, that does enter into it. It turns out you can't tax the rich. They leave.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They will just peace out. I'm gone.

[Dave Ramsey]

I leave.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They have options.

[Dave Ramsey]

So much for your theory on that. It's a. I'm done. You know, load up the U haul. Oh, wait, I'm rich. I'll let someone else load up the U haul.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's the real flex. Yeah, that's where I want to be in life. No movers ever again. I'm not doing it. I'm not lifting a finger.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, and also you need to. Even somebody said, dave, you have a pickup? Do you have those friends that ask me ask you to help move? And I said, no, they wouldn't be friends. No one's ever touched anybody saying, dave.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can I borrow the truck?

[Dave Ramsey]

You want me to help you move? Do you mean you want me to pay your mover? You want me to help you move? Is that what you're doing?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would rather support a Gofundme for you to get movers than me help you load up that truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not doing either one. If you need a GoFundMe to move, you got other issues.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don't ask Dave to borrow his Raptor. He will not allow it.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

Really? Is Sharon the online shopper in the family now?

[Dave Ramsey]

Apparently. Wow. Apparently that happened. So there we go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

This is like real. I'm impressed. So I mean you go from a negative net worth to a millionaire in less than 10 years. You should talk about how to do it in here for 12 bucks. That's good information, man. Amazing. All right. RamseySolutions.com store. You can actually buy gifts for people that have meaning, not last year's ugly tie. Come on, people. Yeah. Listening on YouTube or podcast. Click the link. Or you can go to Ramsaysolutions.com backslash store. Jared is with us in Oklahoma City. Hi, Jared. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Hi. How are you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve, brother. What's up?

[George Camel]

I know that. So I'm 23 and I'm saving up to buy a house and I was looking for guidance because I'm the first time buying. I have no idea where I'm going. I've almost got my 20% and that's where I'm at.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. What do you do for a living?

[George Camel]

I do pest control.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[George Camel]

So cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much have we got?

[George Camel]

Killing bugs apparently pays.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I've got.

[George Camel]

I've got 20, 26,000 and I'll have the rest of it by mid January.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what's the rest?

[George Camel]

About four or five grand?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Good for you. What do you make?

[George Camel]

Seventy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're single, obviously.

[George Camel]

Yes. And I do nothing but work. 6070 hours, sometimes 80 hours a week. Right now it's grind time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jared is no fun, but he has money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's fun. Jared's gonna be a homeowner in his early 20s.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fun way to go about living like nobody else. You're doing it or all that.

[George Camel]

I. I'm just working like a dog right now so I can enjoy a little bit of my food.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you have any debt?

[George Camel]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. And you have an emergency fund in addition to this down payment that was.

[George Camel]

Going to be my next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your next?

[George Camel]

I saved roughly my next. After I buy it, I was just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Going to pick up a side, take some of the money and make it the emergency fund and then we'll save up the down payment. You don't move into a house without an emergency fund because houses are an emergency. Looking for a place to happen. Yeah, yeah. Like crap breaks like as soon as you move in. It's like Murphy's Law. A repairman at my house today. And it was. And it's brand new.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They don't make them like they used to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, it's just part life. It's just like stuff you got. The more stuff you have, the more repairman you have to know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's an exposed wooden box. Stuff's gonna happen. So you need the emergency fund. Three to six months of expenses. So add up what your expenses are for one month, multiply it. For a single guy like you, you could lean towards a three to four month mark. Anything above that becomes your down payment. And 20% down is a great goal because you'll avoid PMI, which is private.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mortgage insurance, which means you're now looking at March.

[George Camel]

Okay, that's reasonable.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's still okay? Yeah, it's good. Listen, dude, you're killing it. I'm so proud of you. Way to go. Who taught you to be this smart?

[George Camel]

Honestly, I. Honestly, nobody. Like, I'm just like. And it's not like a bad thing. Like, I was just. I mean, kind of. You. I took your class was in our high school.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There we go.

[George Camel]

And I kind of remember. And then I. I had. We had this class called deca.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like a. Oh, yeah.

[George Camel]

It teaches you how to present and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh yeah, I think Rachel. Rachel was in deca. Yeah, I was student.

[George Camel]

I was the president of the class, senior year and I went to nationals. It was supposed to be in Nashville, but Covid hit tragically. So I was first in the school.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, Jared. Way to go. So, man, you are doing so good. The only thing I would coach you on is to do that what we talked about. Let's have the down payment plus the emergency fund which puts us into March. And then when you are getting ready to buy, do not buy a project. Something you have to work on all the time.

[George Camel]

No, that's a different one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And do not buy and buy something that's easy to resell, which means it's kind of boring. It's not like some kind of weird. It's not some kind of weird. Do what?

[George Camel]

My spot, like my price is between like 150 and 200.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a good price range. But when you're spending the money, don't buy something that you look at it and go, oh, I gotta a good deal. Because this is weird. Because when you get ready to sell it, somebody's going to get a good deal because it's weird. And you're going to sell it when you get married because you will find out you bought the wrong house when you find her. So that's okay. Go ahead and buy the house. But buy something that you can resell and make money on fairly easily and you'll, you know, you'll be sitting there at 27 with a big grin on your face. Haven't made a bank on this. $150,000 house is now 300. You experienced that exact same thing. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Our first townhome. When you buy in a good area with good schools, you start to look.

[Dave Ramsey]

At this stuff and it was, it was a, you know, it was a nice place, but in terms of it wasn't like super special.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It was nobody's dream home.

[Dave Ramsey]

It wasn't weird, you know, it was just like, okay, boom, that's one.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. Three bedroom townhome is all it was.

[Dave Ramsey]

And yeah. And during the time you owned it, it went up how much?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh my goodness. I mean, three years we lived there, it went up over 200 grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that, that's what.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And we bought it at three. And so you're talking, you made almost 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just did that. So 150 to 300. Just like. Yeah, when he's 27 in three years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's amazing. So do it the right way. You want this to be no more than a quarter of your take home pay on that mortgage. And make sure you choose a 15 year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because you're too young to have a 30 year mortgage sitting around your neck.

[Dave Ramsey]

15 year fixed. Because a paid off home mortgage is one of the keys to being a baby steps millionaire. Kaden is in Greenville, South Carolina hi, Kaden, what's up?

[George Camel]

Hey. Hey, Dave. How are you doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[George Camel]

So I just wanted to come on and just ask a quick question. You know, I took your class last year with a Sunday school class, but I'm a recent graduate from Clemson. I just graduated in May.

[Dave Ramsey]

Congratulations.

[George Camel]

Thank you, sir. And wound up in a pretty good. In a pretty good situation financially with my present work. But I'm pursuing medical school in the near future. I'm looking at possibly starting in about two years from right now. But I'm just wondering, how is the best way to save up for something of that magnitude?

[Dave Ramsey]

Aggressively.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much are you making? You said a good situation. What'd you land in?

[George Camel]

I'm making about 60,000 salary and then. But I. But I think when overtime comes, which is I'll get salary and overtime, I could easily, you know, working. We're working extra hours, probably wind up in the 70 to 80 range.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. And just live like a college student and bank all of it, right?

[George Camel]

Yes. So would it be best to try to knock that down? It, like pay off all of that or take out a. Take out a, you know, a loan for the four years of medical school?

[Dave Ramsey]

Kaden, you went through our class?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You never heard me ever tell somebody to borrow money, have you?

[George Camel]

No, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Probably not going to start today, brother.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dang, that would have been amazing, though. Kaden was the first one ever. All right, I'll make it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to save like a maniac. And I want you to go to a medical school that you can afford. And I've got a feeling you're going to be almost ready to pay cash for it if you watch what you're doing now. The problem with medical school is people get so excited when they get accepted. And sometimes they get accepted to a place they can't afford. And very few times do you go to your doctor and go, wait a minute, Doc, before we do the exam, where'd you go to school? No one asks. All they ask is, do you have that md?

[Dr. John Deloney]

If there's a frame on the wall, I go, all right, I'm good.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm assuming to start with that, you have a clue, an md, do your research, what you're after.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So find out what these schools cost and choose an affordable one.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a big difference out there. Huge spectrum. It's mind blowing what some of these places charge. It's like all college, for that matter. And what some of them don't charge. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

For free tools and resources to help you reach your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com real estate or click the link show notes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey guys. I've never done this before but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, Field of Greens. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens is selected by doctors to support heart, liver and kidney health plus metabolism for healthy weight. And your doctor will notice your improved health or Field of Greens will give you your money back. I can get behind a promise like that. Go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsay and get 15% off with promo code Ramsay field of greens.com Ramsay George Camel Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Lauren is in St. Paul. Hi Lauren. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Well, hello Dave. How are you today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Camel]

Okay, I have a question regarding long term health care insurance. My husband and I, back when we were married bought whole life insurance policies because that's what our parents did for us. So we changed them over on and on. Our financial advisor is suggesting that we cash those in and invest in a long term care insurance for nursing home and that in the future. Just wondering what your thoughts are on that situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, cashing the whole life in is a no brainer. Assuming you have enough life insurance to take care of you. What's your old net worth.

[George Camel]

Right now? About 600,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how old are you guys?

[George Camel]

We are 62 and 64.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If he dies with no life insurance, are you okay?

[George Camel]

Yes, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean financially?

[George Camel]

Yes. Yes, I would be fine. Yes. Because he, that does not include what his. So he's a minister and he would get like a retirement through there also? Yes. Yeah. He cannot collect that till he's 67 and a half.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you can, you can collect it if he dies?

[George Camel]

Yes, I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So you're okay to eat, you don't need life insurance. So dropping the whole life is a no brainer. Okay. Right now, long term care insurance, what you want to do there is you want to shop it among several different companies. Okay. And basically try to get the best deal. In other words. And so I don't know who your, what's your financial advisor. If they're selling only for one company, that's a problem. Do they sell only for one company?

[George Camel]

No, she suggested several different ones.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. That's a good. Here's what you get. Here's what you get Today you get three years of coverage and that will cover 90 some odd percent of the cases. Very few people live three years once they get to a nursing home. Statistically it's 2.8 years.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

On average. Okay. Now what normally happens is mom and dad go along like you guys have and you got a good nest egg here. And 75% of you ladies outlive their husbands. I don't know exactly what's going on there, but we'll talk about that later. So, and so papa, papa goes into a nursing home, burns up three or four hundred thousand dollars because it's one hundred and something thousand dollars a year. And if he's there, three years is three hundred grand of your six hundred and then dies and leaves mama with the nest egg having been scrambled and fried. So I think you guys are a real candidate for nursing home insurance. The three years of coverage that you probably can buy and it's fairly reasonable if you shop around and you know, you want to, you know the other look for a feature that has in home care as well because it's sometimes cheaper and some, and oftentimes a better quality of life to have in home care. And so yeah, I think you're getting good advice.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No red flags here.

[George Camel]

Yeah. What our, what our concern was, it would swing us up to quite a big payout every month for this insurance. And so just, you know, how much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are they quoting you?

[George Camel]

679Amonth for both, that would be 2, $200,000 life insurance or long term care policies?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And how much are you getting out of the whole life policies?

[George Camel]

What are they valued at right now?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What's your cash value you're going to get when you close them?

[George Camel]

Between the two of us, around 52,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I pay for it, but the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Cost seems very reasonable. I mean I'm seeing the stat here. In 2023, average 60 year old man paid 1200 bucks per year. That's about right for a level policy.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I don't hear anything that your financial advisor is saying that's like shooting rockets off. Wrong. It's all correct. The only thing you need to do is get down in the details and understand it and get comfortable with it. You're going to use some of that 50 grand to offset your first year of costs to move that in maybe some of the second year. And you know, then you've got to decide how far out you want to stretch this. Now you are 64. If you don't touch the 600 by the time you're 71. You will drop the long term because you'll have a million two to a million five.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you can stomach the risk at that point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's the point of insurance. It'll transfer risk to the insurance company instead of you. And right now you guys couldn't stomach that with your net worth to take a $300,000 hit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So, George, it suddenly occurred to me, I've told people all these years, don't buy long term care insurance until you're 60. And I really haven't talked a lot about if you build substantial wealth that you self insure until I just woke up and went, dad gum, I'm 64. So what happens if Sharon or I are in a situation where we're incapacitated? Well, I get, you know, we've got money and so I don't mean that in a bragging way, but you know what I'm gonna do? Get like a bed that lets up and down and hire somebody to live there and take care of one of us.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's not leaving.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a lot. You know, I. You think I'm.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, we're, you know, you don't want to play bingo? You can do that at home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Online or something. But yeah. No, I mean, it's just the. I can hire a dad gum medical butler and not think anything about it, you know, full time, put them in the house, take care of us or her or me or whoever it is. And the other one be. Just equip this. Create the same exact environment, but better.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

In your own home because you got the money to do it, you're self insured. And I just determined that's what we'll do. So we're not a candidate for a nursing home under any circumstances I can think of. I mean, I guess there'd be some extreme thing maybe, but I mean, at this moment in time, financially we don't need to do that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, think about the cost. 350 grand. So think about that as part of your net worth as the listener. If you can stomach that from your nest egg without it affecting your life, you could self insure.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's your average. That's the average with the average stay. Which means that some people don't make it that long and some make it longer. Right. And so, you know, you've got early onset and good health. You could be there 10 years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I'm seeing the stat here. 20% will need it for more than five years. Okay, so one in five people will have a longer stay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Like you said, most people it's, you know, two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Average is 2.8. Yeah. So good. Christine. Christiana. Christina. Christina is in San Francisco. Hi, Christina. How are you?

[George Camel]

Hi, Dave. I'm pretty good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Camel]

Well, I'm a disabled veteran. I got my disability in 2020 and I got a sizable check and wanted to buy a house with that. And I make about 4,200amonth on the disability, which is very good. So I ended up just buying a piece of land because the whole process of trying to find a good real estate agent didn't work out well. And then I waited to build, and then here I am four years later, and I have not built a house yet. There's no utilities on the property yet. I'm living in my travel trailer on the property legally, but I still don't have a house. And we're trying to work through the process. My dad is now helping me. I cannot afford really to build on my own. I need him to help me. I need a co signer and.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you can't afford to build.

[George Camel]

And I. Yeah, I can't afford to.

[Dave Ramsey]

You bit off more than you can chew.

[George Camel]

Yeah, pretty much, yeah. And so the property, it's in a city, you know, it's a half acre. It's a. So it's a great size. I bought it for 250 with 25% down, which was required by the blender. So I now I only owe about 160000 on it. And it's worth 265. Or it's. It's assessed by the county at 265.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it's worth. Then it's worth 365 or 400.

[George Camel]

Yeah, it's probably. It would probably sell for more than I bought it for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I think so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You need to sell it and buy something you can afford. There's no point in keeping it, honey.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't. If you can't do it without a CO shiner, you don't need to be doing it. You're gonna get yourself well, I mean, you're gonna get yourself and your dad in a pinch. Okay. I wouldn't do that.

[George Camel]

Well, but yeah, the concern is that right now I'm paying about a quarter of my monthly income for just the land loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So sell the land.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And go buy something you can afford. You can't afford to build on it, huh? That's what you told me. And I don't want you to do that. I appreciate you serving your country. And I don't want you to get handcuffed to a bad deal. And I don't want your dad handcuffed to a bad deal. Let's don't do this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. The Ramsey question of the day is brought to you by. Why Refi? We trust why Refi? Because they help people who have defaulted private student loans to refinance with low fixed interest rate that they couldn't get anywhere else. Chris had a student loan and he cut his payment by over 40%. With why refi? Go to wirefi.com Ramsey that's the letter Y, R E F Y.com/Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Today's question comes from Glenn in New York. Should I change my investing strategy? I'm 50 years old and debt free with an emergency fund. I currently put 10% in a Roth IRA and another 5% in my 401k from work. Should I contribute more to my 401k to max it out or get with a financial advisor and Start investing in individual mutual funds. Currently, I have around $600,000 in my 401k and the Roth has about 20k. All right, so we're debt free. We're 50. That's good. We're investing 15%. So the question is, does he have a mortgage and is the house paid off? If so, I would continue to invest more and max out those accounts before working with the individual mutual funds outside of retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, if you're in baby step seven, meaning and your house is paid off, we don't use the 15% rule. We say max out all available retirement accounts. Everything you can put in a 401k. Everything you can put in the Roth. If your company has a Roth 401k instead of a traditional 401k, I would shift to that, too. That would be my plan. But I'm with you, George. If your home is not paid off, then you need to be working and pay off your home and leave this at 15%. You're fine. You're in good shape, dude. I mean, when you are 57, you're going to have a million two if you don't add anything to it. When you are 64, you're going to have 2.4 if you don't add anything to it. So that you know, if you're invested in good mutual funds, it sounds like you are. It sounds like you're doing the right things here all the way around. But no, I don't think you need to move to individual mutual funds. The only reason you would move some to that is if you were going to quit work before 59 and a half. I don't see that happening here. I didn't hear anything in this email that made me think that was going to occur. If that's the case, you would need to do what we call bridge investing, which is have some money that's not in a retirement account that you can get to before 59 and a half to have something to eat with. That's always a nice plan, too. So that eating thing is good. The. So, yeah, I mean, you're. That. That's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And George, that's the second time in this hour we've used that. So here, here's a little quick lesson, boys and girls. There's a thing called a math anomaly called the rule of 72s. And if you take an interest rate or a growth rate on your mutual fund divided into the number 72, it will take you, tell you how long it takes a lump sum to double. Okay? And so if you're making 10% on your mutual funds average into 72 is 7.2 years to double. And so that's what I just did. I'm assuming he's going to be making at least that. If he's 50, at 57, he would have not 600, but 1.2. At 64, seven more years, he would have 2.4 and we could go all the way to 71 and have him sitting there at almost $5 million.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And this played out in real life. Dave, I went back and looked at the actual stats. Under Trump's presidency, the first term, three and a half years in, the stock market was up 53%. Under Biden, three and a half years in, it was up 50%. So 103% return in exactly seven years. Exactly what you say the stock market doubled in those seven years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, and that's about what it'll do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So this is not just an opinion or a math formula. It plays out in reality.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's the averages. I mean, you know, and so we don't know what's going to happen from here. Exactly. But that's, that's, you know, that's a good thing to kind of coach yourself along and go, I think I'm going to be okay. The key is to be invested in San Francisco. Hi, Raj, what's up?

[George Camel]

Hi, how you doing? A first time caller, long time listener. Glad to be on the show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you. How can we help?

[George Camel]

Okay, so I'm a tax professional. I'm an enrolled agent. Recently on the news I've been hearing that in order to reduce government inefficiencies and the Trump and team might remove income taxes and replace them with tariffs. That's all good, you know, that's, that's okay. But for a tax professional, how would I, I'm 33 years old. I have like about five years experience in the field. How would I facilitate a career change if, if that were to happen? I don't think it might happen. But, you know, just in case it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does, well, you figure out what your talents and passions were that drew you into this in the first place. So I'm guessing, I'm guessing you're like me, you're a bit of a math nerd. You're quick with details. Your mind grasps decision making, flowcharts on things like taxes. And so, you know, that tells me you need to move towards accounting.

[George Camel]

Yeah, yeah. Maybe some other things in accounting that are not taxes. Like maybe audit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly, exactly. And you know, something in private Accounting. Yeah. And, or finance of all kinds. And so your mind naturally goes there. And you know what, I'm with you. I don't see this as a high probability. In the near future there could be a trend in that direction. It could take a while. The chances on, you know, three days after he is sworn in that you don't have a job or zero. So you're okay, we don't have to worry about this today. But what it does do, it's interesting for you personally is it kind of gives you that wake up call to go, hey, maybe I want to do something with my life that's more than just taxes. Maybe I want to broaden my horizons.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I've been in the field and the whole time I've been in the field I was thinking that there's only two things that are true is death and taxes. Well, now we know one of them might not be true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it might be true. It'll just take a different form. And so the, but again, the talents that you have, the way your mind works easily for you and hard for others, it takes you towards detail and towards finance and accounting. And so, you know, you might sit for your CPA dude, you might, you might move, might go ahead. And this is just a thing that says, hey, time for me to take the next step in my career, regardless of Trump, regardless of what they do. That, that we're not going to sit and wait around in the White House to fix or destroy our lives either one. We're just going to go with our lives. What's the right thing to do? And so maybe this is just God giving you a little nudge to say.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You need to get some education, some skills and maybe expand the horizons a bit.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would, I think it'd be good for your practice anyway because right now you got a very seasonal thing that you work like a maniac and then you're off the rest of the year, basically. I mean, 90% down. And so it's not like September is big in the tax prep business, you know, so, you know, we do a little work around this time of year in the tax prep business because people are getting ready for year end stuff, especially small business people. Those kinds of things are some moves you can make right now. You need to check with your tax pro right now, baby. But, but by and large, you know, you got this sprint in the first quarter, takes you down to April 15th or so and May spill over into May with some late filings and stuff. But after that you're just kind of out. So I'd be looking for something to supplement anyway.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely. And maybe find a niche. You might find you like working with a certain type of client and that might be your specialty that you dive into.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now we've got tax LPs, people that we endorse to do taxes, endorsed local providers, thousands of them all across America. And we are not advising them to prepare for their business to end.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I'd turn off the news if. If you're getting paralyzed by that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm again, I have no idea any more than anybody else what the new president's going to do. But. But it's going to be a bit. It's going to be a bit. Things. Things move slower than. Than that. I don't think you're going to get a call one day and go, whoop, there's no income tax. Although, on a personal note, it wouldn't piss me off at all if there was just suddenly no income tax. I'd be going, oh, wow. Ah, I get to. You mean. You mean all the things that. The money that I make helping people, I get to keep the money that I made.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. And it's not simple text instead of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sending it to you people.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have you ever thought about that, though? When you get. You're taxed on your income, you then use that money. It's taxed again. And then the person who gets that money pays taxes on the money they get as the business owners. It just keeps going.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then when you die, they tax you again.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The death tax on your estate. So just an endless taxation of the dollar.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's just. Yeah, I have thought about it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Am I turning into a boomer?

[Dave Ramsey]

You are sitting next to one for too long and the. It's rubbed off the. The spirit of rage is leaving my body and moving into yours.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, no. Soon I'll be yelling at kids to get off my lawn.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that happened to me this week, actually.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, it was your grandkids, Dave. It's different.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was. No, my neighbor yelled at me to get off his lawn. But, yeah, there you go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Bold move.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, bold move. He was sort of kidding. Maybe this is the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[George Camel]

All right. Hey, it's that time of year when it's getting a little colder, it's getting dark earlier, and sometimes we just want to stay inside and get cozy. For me, the perfect night at home when I'm trying to be cozy is me and my whole family under a bunch of big blankets watching a TV show or reading a book, whatever your.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Perfect night in looks like. Therapy can feel a bit like that.

[George Camel]

A time when you can settle in.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Get cozy, replenish your energy and take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring.

[George Camel]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[George Camel]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[George Camel]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

H E L P.com DeLoney live from.

[Dave Ramsey]

The headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality number one. Best selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke on sale on Cyber Monday right now@ramsey solutions.com he's my co host. Open phones at 888825 5225. Ann is in Phoenix. Hi Ann. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Hi.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi. What's up?

[George Camel]

So my question is, is it worth dipping into our emergency fund while we fight insurance to make sure I'm okay medically? A little more into that. I think. I'm having an ectopic pregnancy and my husband's all for dipping into the emergency fund because he's already done the math. He's 20 steps ahead. And instead of fighting insurance, he would rather just make sure I'm okay. Literally Thursday and then fighting insurance for a month and I have to go in for emergency surgery.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I think your husband is 100% right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It sounds like an emergency to me. It's urgent, it's necessary and it's unexpected.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Checks the boxes and what are you, a Navy seal? You don't think you need to do this? I mean, no, you need to take care of yourself, girl.

[George Camel]

To me it's the insurance is problem like that we have. He's military.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think it's your problem you're sick.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you fight with them. I would argue with them up and down and I would, I would go all, you know, I'd go all in right now and be tearing their freaking heads off. But, but at the end of the day.

[George Camel]

We've been doing that for about two weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, don't stop. Yeah, don't stop. Just keep. Keep doing it up until the day of. But, yeah, you need to go and take care of yourself.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds like your husband's worried about you.

[George Camel]

Yes, he is. He's very worried.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, what's the cost out of pocket?

[George Camel]

It would be initially just for the ultrasound. It's $500. And I. I am. I was a. I had a really bad spending habit. I love shopping. I'd get it from every female I'm related to. So spending money now feels like a heart attack in my kid.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, because you've overcome impulsive shopping. Well, listen, an ultrasound when you're having a baby's not impulse.

[George Camel]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, I would do this. I will tell you that if you will shop around the wonderful town of Phoenix, you will find that you can probably get that ultrasound done for 250. Yeah, there's lots of places do ultrasounds and their price range. Again, if you say no insurance cash when I walk in, what's your best deal? Like, I want a coupon. Like you're a shopper. Okay.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna find that we find this all the time. I've actually advertised for a few ultrasound places over the years in certain cities and not one in Phoenix, and not lately. So I don't know the name of it, but I remember this concept. They came to us and go, oh, the reason everybody charges 500 or 600 bucks is because insurance will pay it. But if you walk in there with cash, you can get it for 200. And that's what that company told us that does ultrasound. So. And they advertised that for a while to try to steal business from the insurance ultrasound people or whatever. But, yeah, shop around, get a better deal. But take care of yourself, kiddo.

[George Camel]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Husband's right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're worth it, by the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Give him a good hug. He's a good man.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Showing up on the scene, taking care of his wife. Salute.

[George Camel]

Yes, he's a fantastic husband.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, he is. They're out there.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's also an app.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're all taken, but they're out there.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's an app called. Yeah, that's true. There's an app called Billy Dave. They're not a sponsor of ours, but they have this cool app where it shows transparent pricing for procedures, so you can type in the CPT code. It'll tell you in your area what the cheapest facility is for that specific procedure. It's pretty cool. So it Might be something you can check out as you as she does her research. I've never tried it personally, but I've heard good things. So might be an option to at least know you're not getting screwed.

[Dave Ramsey]

See, I have a concept and George has an actual.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's an app for that, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

George. There's always a technical hack. For my good concept, I've got about 400. I don't even know that. That's so cool. Way to go, George.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, Billy we've talked to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Named after.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't know. I don't know if it's Billy, as in the bill with the medical bills.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it is. That's what it is. I don't know, Billy Goat.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We'll find out. But it could be. I'm all about transparency because I'm the one who hates getting screwed. Feeling like I overpaid for something. So just to know I'm not getting screwed and this is actually a good deal, makes me sleep better at night.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've been paying cash for medical stuff for a long time, out of pocket. And all you gotta do is just go, hey, I'm paying cash. It's not insurance. And most of the time it's discount. Yeah, Boom.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I used to work at a doctor's office when I was 14 years old as the receptionist. And if they were cash pay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wait a minute.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. Can you imagine walking in and seeing me?

[Dave Ramsey]

George, how tall were you at 14?

[Dr. John Deloney]

About the same height.

[Dave Ramsey]

Could you see over the desk?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I maxed out at five and a half. That was it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You were the receptionist.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I had to lean up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doctor's office.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think I sat on a pillow.

[Dave Ramsey]

14.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Things I learned while I'm on the air in front of millions of people about George.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That was my first real job, Dave. 12 bucks an hour.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, you can pay big money back then.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That was good money back then for a 15 year old. Are you kidding me?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, they were seriously overpaying you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But I remember we'd get the bills for the procedures and if they were a cash payment, the doctor would have me note it and it would be a severely discounted rate.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got that at 14?

[Dr. John Deloney]

At 14 I figured that out.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is how George ends up with a book called Breaking Free from Broke. He knows about Billy and he knows.

[Dr. John Deloney]

About I can't mow a lawn to save my life, but I know a CPT code.

[Dave Ramsey]

George learns the hack for the medical system.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow, not on your bingo card.

[Dave Ramsey]

I did not see that coming today.

[Dr. John Deloney]

George, answering I am a Renaissance man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave, you answered the phone. Did you have a little headset?

[George Camel]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, it was, you know, people walking up. It was more in person. I'd answer the phones, which I was really good at.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, I mean, seriously, folks and babies are one of the things that we've discovered this with the most. And this was all the way back from the early days doing the show before healthcare was what it is now, good or bad, whatever you want to call it. But in those days, sometimes people did not have labor and delivery coverage on their health system, on their health plan. And what we learned was if you go to the hospital to have a baby, it's one of the few times that people want to go to the hospital, it's a good thing to go to the hospital. Most other times you're at the hospital, it's a bad thing. Right. And so labor and delivery is like good PR for hospitals. So if for some reason you find yourself not covered, go to the hospital in the first trimester and say, I'm going to choose a hospital based on the deal that you give me for labor and delivery and I'm going to pay cash and I will pay 50% of it up front before we get here and the other 50% on the day we arrive. So you will not be trying to collect. And it's cash on the barrel head. And you will see a 50 to a 70% reduction. And that's what, that's what we normally see from hospitals. Again, because they really like babies to come to their place because it's the time that people come to the hospital, everyone involved, the visitors are smiling, the participant is smiling, everybody, right? And so family's all visiting there. Yeah, it's a good thing. So, you know, keep in mind they, this is business they want, in other words. And so, and you know, you're a cash buyer, you don't have insurance, this is how it's going to be. They don't have to chase you for the money. They got the money up front.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They like that serious discount that works.

[Dave Ramsey]

In a lot of stuff out there, ladies and gentlemen. But yes, if you are pregnant and you're having a trouble with your pregnancy, that is by definition an emergency. If you need to use some of your emergency fund, that's what it's for. This is the Ramsey show. Are you working the baby steps? One of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make is to ditch your cash value life insurance plan, if you have one, and replace it with a term life policy. Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you for the life insurance and then paying you a crappy rate of return on your overpayment. Stop wasting your money and really focus on getting out of debt and growing your savings. For over 25 years, I've trusted and used Zander Insurance to find the best rates on term life insurance from the top rated companies. They keep the whole thing simple. You can apply online or over the phone and they even have low cost plans that don't require an exam. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Even if you don't have a cash value policy, if you're one of the 70% of people who have no life insurance or not enough, it's even more important to get this done. 800-356-4282 or zander.com It's Cyber Monday and time is running out to grab best selling hardcover books like the Total Money makeover. Own your past, change your future and from paycheck to purpose for just $10 or audiobooks for only $4.99. No matter who you're shopping for, this is your chance to give life changing gifts that won't break the bank. But hurry, these Cyber Monday deals end tonight. So go to Ramsaysolutions.com store right now Ramsaysolutions.com store George Camel Ramsey personality is my co host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. D.J. is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi D.J. how are you?

[George Camel]

Hi Dave. Thanks for call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[George Camel]

What's up? Ironically, I'm long time listener. All right. And didn't know it but I followed the steps and have without formal introduction to those steps or I didn't realize.

[Dave Ramsey]

You had common sense that I was I guess because my accident as I.

[George Camel]

Look back on it. All right. Geez. I said I've been doing exactly what you're talking about and what you outline. Great, great advice. I agree with with 90%, 95% of everything you said. Cash is king. My question is once we get to your level or we get to the level that you would think is the top, what's your thoughts on maintaining that whole lot harder. All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

To compound at this level than it.

[George Camel]

Was to get here. And I'm just amazed that what's going on in our world today and the leaks and the shots that everybody's taken to take it away from you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Well the hard thing is not the actual compounding because a million dollars invested in mutual funds does the exact same that 10 million does. Does the exact same that 100 million does. It's the exact same compounding. $1 million invested in good real estate does the exact same thing $100 million does in good real estate. So the compounding is not the problem. The problem is a stink in taxation and estate planning and you know, and maintaining your sanity as you manage more and more assets in terms of not letting it drive you bonkers because the more stuff you own, the more repairmen you have to know kind of thing. And so maintaining actually getting peace from it rather than anxiety from it. You know what I'm saying? So. Yes sir, I know very much what you're saying. So the spiritual aspect of it is more challenging. The tax and estate planning is more challenging. And because as you said, more people taking shots at it and really risk management becomes a thing because, you know, all of a sudden somebody wants to just sue you because they got a hangnail and they think it's easy money. So you got to have risk management. So those are things that come, that I've noticed have come into play. And I think you just manage those things as if they're individual sciences. That's what I've done. I've said, okay, risk management, here's what we're going to do. We're going to study that. I'm going to learn about, you know, how to, how to split up the pie into small enough pieces that it doesn't have a big target on it. And it doesn't, it's not as attractive to everyone to sue. Going to not settle with anyone. I'm going to destroy them if they come after me and try to get easy money. I'm going to make an example out of them and their jack leg ambulance chasing attorney. And I've done that. I'm going to, I mean I just set some policies in place and said, okay, here's what we're going to do. And obviously we buy insurance and obviously I don't own anything anymore. Everything's in some kind of a trust or an LLC or a C Corp or S Corp, one of the two. And then estate planning. I've spent a couple of hundred grand over the last 20 years on estate planning, maybe more to save 20 or 30 million in estate taxes and then the same thing on income tax, which is just an ongoing thing. All I've done is I've just had to get better at those things as the size has gotten better. But the compounding is really not any trouble. With the money making money, it's kind of bizarre.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, you don't have debt attached to it. All that real estate cash flow is way better.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And if you just leave the investments alone, it'll grow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so it's just. It's. It's one of the things that comes with the. You know, I'm a Christian, a person of faith. And so I believe I'm not the owner. I'm managing it for God. And so if God asked me to manage something larger and more sophisticated than I have to grow my skills, including the size of my backbone to handle whatever, anxiety, whatever, and the fight, if I need to fight, including the just growing my brain about some of these subjects that I didn't know before and that kind of thing as part of becoming a manager of, you know, if you're going to manage, you know, one restaurant, it's different than managing 500 restaurants. It's a different skill set, you know, and so even if you're a manager and you don't not the owner, you're working for someone else, which is how I view it also, by the way. Dj, I'll just throw out again. My faith journey with that has really, really kept me from, most of the time from being stressed out about this stuff because I just go, God, you got a problem? You have a problem. I'm the manager. What do you want to do with your thing over here? They got this situation, you know, and in prayer, I just say, okay, Lord, what do you want to do with your deal here? And sometimes he says, you want to fix that for me, God? Because I don't know what I'm supposed to do here. And it's your thing. So what?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not all on your shoulders.

[Dave Ramsey]

Call the owner and go, the heat and air is out. The renter called and said, the heat and air is out. You know, call the owner. And so I call the owner sometimes, and I remember it. I'm not God. I don't have to have all the answers. I'm not perfect. I'm going to just do the best I can do with what the next right step. And that's released me from a large percentage of the stress that a lot of people feel in those situations where your wealth has come.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You feel like you could just screw it up overnight.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm not going to screw it up overnight because I'm not going to make one single thing that blows the whole thing up. I'm not. I'm not doing anything that's that reactionary or that risk I'm not that I'm too risk averse to do that, but. Yeah, it's just, it's interesting. So. Good stuff. All right. Jennifer is in Portland, Maine. Hi, Jennifer, how are you?

[George Camel]

I'm doing great. Thank you so much for taking my call. Dave, I've been following you for about 20 years and when I first heard you, I became debt free and we moved to Maine. We paid off our home in 10 years and it's given us financial freedom. So thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you.

[George Camel]

The reason I'm calling is I have an older cousin. I'm her only living relative. She has left everything in her will to me. She has a home that's paid for that's worth about $150,000. She has a $30,000 HELOC on there. That's variable. She owes back taxes for last year of 4300 and she's going to owe another 4300, come due in January. She has $30,000 worth of unpaid credit cards that she stopped paying on about three years ago. She did have. Somebody convinced her to lease a Jeep and she paid that off. But then she went back to them and took a really high interest loan out. And we're just kind of sitting here wondering what we should do if she lost this home. She'd have nowhere to go. She's got bad credit and no money.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old is she?

[George Camel]

77. And she's not in overly the best of health. She does have an income of $3,500 a month that we've been trying to convince her to budget all these the last three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And she has done, she has not done anything really to help herself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. So, and so that's her problem then.

[George Camel]

Well, we're wondering, is it, would it be, would it behoove us to pay the taxes and the HELOC off knowing.

[Dave Ramsey]

That, knowing that she's going to go borrow it again in summer.

[George Camel]

Hmm. Yeah, I don't, I would hope to this one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, this woman has a track record that's abysmal. It's like every time, every time something gets cleaned up, she messes it up again.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want to be a part of that.

[George Camel]

Right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

She, I mean, okay, so you pay off the HELOC and then the Jeep gets repoed and they sue her and so she goes and takes out another HELOC to pay the lawsuit. That's what, that's what's coming.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I don't, I hate to say it, but I don't think she's smart enough to realize she could even do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's smart enough to get the HELOC the first time.

[George Camel]

Well, her husband, who has is deceased.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did she, did he do the Jeep? No. Did he run up the credit cards? No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I wouldn't do this. Jennifer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jennifer. Okay, you're throwing good money after bad. I would coach her. I would love her. I would be cheering for her. I would write zero checks and the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Estate will pay off her debts and whatever's left. If there is anything, you'll get it. I doubt there will be.

[Dave Ramsey]

I, I, I don't, I wouldn't have any expectation there. No, no, I think she needs to. I, I would scare the P Wadden out of her.

[George Camel]

Hey, you guys, when you go against what society thinks is, quote, normal, like avoiding debt, for example, it might seem weird at first, and that is totally okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

We want you to be weird if.

[George Camel]

That means you're doing things intentionally, including.

[Dave Ramsey]

How you spend your health care dollars.

[George Camel]

And one way to be intentional is with Christian health care ministries. CHM isn't health insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of health care costs without sacrificing their freedom. Programs start as low as $98 a month.

[George Camel]

Find out more and [e-mail] budget that's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Chministries.Org budget hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home? It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's Real Estate Home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramsaysolutions.com real estate. That's ramsaysolutions.com Real Estate.

[Dave Ramsey]

George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co host. It is that time of year. In a few weeks we're going to be doing your all's favorite show here on the Ramsey show, the giving show where we hear from people who have received gifts that were life changing or given gifts that were life changing. And for three hours we talk about that to inspire you to live like no one else. So later you can live and give like no one else. So we need to hear from you if you want to be part of that show and share your story of giving or receiving. That'll make our eyes leak and inspire people. Love it. Go to Ramsaysolutions.com Ask Put giving in the subject line. Leave us a little bit about your story. Team will get with you and set you up to be part of that program. It's going to be on December 18th, so you need to get your submissions in now. We do want to hear your story. Please go to ramseysolutions.com/put giving in the subject line. Brady is in Houston. Hi, Brady. How are you?

[George Camel]

I'm good. How are you? Gordon? David Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help?

[George Camel]

Hey, I appreciate it. So me and my wife have come to the agreement that my current position as a I'm a business owner and it's not likely to get us to the goals that we've achieved that we set that we want to end up in our lives. And my question to you is my wife is not willing to move away to find the right job that does that. She wants to stay close to her family. She's very close with them and they're close with her and I'm close with them as well. But I'm more willing to go out and find that job, you know, far away from here if it that's what it is. And she's very resilient to making that change. And there's not much job offers nearby where we live, but there are, you know, hour, hour and a half away from here.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how you're in Houston?

[George Camel]

I'm in Brenham, about an hour and a half outside of Houston. So Houston's my nearest big town.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so what kind of job are you looking for?

[George Camel]

I'm a mechanical engineer. I've got experience in oil and gas and I've got experience in manufacturing, in aerospace, safety systems. I'm actually looking right now for a role potentially in oil and gas. But also I know that there's a lot of space exploration that is picking up.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what would you be making in the new role?

[George Camel]

Approximately it would be a fourth year engineer. So somewhere between 80 to 90,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make now, your small business?

[George Camel]

It's a carpentry business. That was a passion that I jumped into and it's very, it varies, of course, based on the job. I've been able to maintain around 65 to 70 a year. But that's starting to show. We've got kids, a boy, and we want to have More kids. And that's starting to show that there's something else that needs to kind of take care of the expenses than just what I'm making now in the job.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long have you been married?

[George Camel]

We've been married about three years now. And she's funny enough, she's actually a German citizen with a green card. And so there's. It's funny, I talked to her about finances and stuff and there seems to be a disconnect where obvious things to me are not so obvious to her. And I see it as from her German background. It's like very different there. And there's not, you know, not as much of a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Her German family is in Brennan, Texas.

[George Camel]

Part of the German family? Yeah. She's got family all over the world. But the. Her sister who she's very close to, they were her sponsors coming over. I met her through her family and so I ended up marrying her. But we're close to her family who's here in Brenham. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Her family is her sister.

[George Camel]

Her sister and her brother in law. They own a.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the whole family hold.

[George Camel]

No, she's got a mom in Germany.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I'm asking. Why in the heck you're staying in Brennan? Her sister is why you're staying in Brennan. It's not exactly your mom. It's not exactly her mom. And you got the grandkids you're running off with.

[George Camel]

This is very true, Very true. Her background or their family is very rough. A lot of bad stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay.

[George Camel]

Her sister was her. Her mother. Acting mother kind of thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here, here's, you know, you guys are just going to sit down and talk about. Okay. These things all don't go together. There's not a $90,000 job for me here.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you are in agreement that I need to get a different job, you are saying we need to move closer to Houston. So Instead of being 10 minutes from your sister, you're going to be 45 minutes from your sister and I'm going to have a 30 minute commute. You're going to move between the two.

[George Camel]

Sure. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's reasonable.

[George Camel]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

But if you can't communicate that kind of basic stuff, you got other issues like marriage issues.

[George Camel]

Oh, no. Yeah. And that's. It's not so much. She's willing to move.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, she's not. That's why you called me.

[George Camel]

She's faithful as a wife, but she also has this.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not the point. I didn't say she was unfaithful you called and said she's unwilling to move, but we're in agreement that I need a new job. That's exactly what you said right here. I heard you, right. Yeah. Okay, so quit changing the story.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And if she can move across the world, I think she can move an hour away from herself. Okay. You can visit her on the weekends.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I think there needs to be some compromise here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, and again, I'm not saying move to freaking New York City. You're moving closer to Houston where you have a 30 minute commute instead of an hour and a half. And then she. When she sees her sister on the weekend, for God's sakes, you drive an hour over there. I mean, you know, it's. This is not. He wants to be in. He wants to be a rocket scientist. So here we. I'm kidding. This is why I almost said it. But no, no, I mean, that's. That's, you know, you are in the hot bed. If you want to be in the space world, my God, you're in Houston. You can't. There's nowhere else other than Cape Canaveral that you could do better, so. But you're gonna not commute an hour and a half so she can be near her sister. That's asinine.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think we're gonna FaceTime for a while.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Be okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whatever. I mean, again, I'm not suggesting you completely disconnect that you never see them again or whatever, but if you actually add up the number of hours you spend with them during the week versus the number of hours you spend at work during the week, these two things are not compatible. So it's illogical, it's silly. And we're both in agreement that me working all the time as a carpenter, my passion job, I think he said, yep. Is not working out. So. Okay, good. So get you an engineer job up towards Houston, move your butt up there and then, you know, for God's sakes, hire her a driver and send her down to her, you know, to the sister if you have to. Whatever you got to do. It's not. Really not. This is not hard. It's not hard. So you can't have this both ways. You can't say, oh, you need to make more money. We live in a dinky town that doesn't have a whole list of mechanical engineers. Now, if there's mechanical engineering, you can do remote in the oil field, you might be able to do some remote work there. I don't know. I don't know. How that works.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I was thinking about that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then maybe, maybe you can land that and I'll just shut up and you just stay there. But you need to go find some actual jobs and make her turn them down. Not theory.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Especially if it's. It means a 50% pay increase.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's what he's looking at.

[Dr. John Deloney]

From 60 to 90.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's serious what he's looking at. So yeah, that's, that's it. So. All right. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. There's a reason folks, from an economics perspective. One of the classes I took but way back in college when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was getting my real estate degree. Urban economics and urban economics are different than rural economics. There is more opportunity in a metropolitan area with a larger population. There is also the downside of a higher expense for real estate typically. And there's a downside of there's a dad gum many people and not all of them are fun. And so you know, you move to the city if you're going to, if you're going to move into some careers and you know, and if you're going to move out towards the country, you're going to get cheaper real estate, a more rural setting. I love that personally. But you're going to have a commute in if you're going to be involved in the economics of the opportunities that are available. That's what he's finding.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you got to pull all the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Different levers and find you got a 5,000 person town. I don't know how big that town is. I'm making this up. But I mean if you got a 5,000 person town, it's different than a town of what's freaking Houston, 12 million or something. I mean, you know, it's huge. Of course it takes seven hours to drive across the whole thing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But yeah, yeah, Brenham's got 17,000 people.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not a crazy big town.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, there we go. Look at you with your quickness on the Google. This is the Ramsey Show. It's Cyber Monday and time is running out to grab best selling hardcover books like the Total Money Makeover. Own your past, change your future and from paycheck to purpose for just $10. Or audio books for only 499. No matter who you're shopping for, this is your chance to give life changing gifts that won't break the bank. But hurry. These Cyber Monday deals end tonight. So go to Ramsaysolutions.com store right now. Ramsaysolutions.com store. The best way to build wealth is on purpose. Reporters often ask me, dave, what's the number one mistake Americans make with their money? As if they think I'm going to say a single thing. Don't they ask you that?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, yeah, that. Like there's this magic thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like a journalism question. They got that in first year journalism. Like the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's the best advice you've ever gotten?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, what's the best. What's the best advice you give? What's the number one thing the people. I finally developed a really good answer. You know what the number one mistake Americans make with their money? They don't freaking pay attention. They just drive with their eyes closed and then wonder why they hit the dad gum ditch. You know, I'm just going to spend everything I make and I'll get to retirement and go. I sure hope the government, which is well known for its ability to handle money, will take care of me. That's dumb.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'll just buy now, pay later and swipe my life away and hope for the best.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just karna, karna. Keep karna. That's right. Karna, karna, karna. Then karma and affirm.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I want to be affirmed.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want to be affirmed with karma. Karna. Then karma comes. Karna, Karma.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Credit carna.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're killing me here. I was buying a T shirt with a smart Alex saying on it. Can you imagine that? They offered me payments on the T shirt. George, I can't. This is the problem. Okay, so let me tell you how you. How you build wealth. You pay attention. You're intentional. You make your money behave instead of wondering where it went. That's called. One of the things you do is you do a budget. You sit down, you go, okay, I manage freaking $100,000 a year and I have no idea. That's dumb. If you work for somebody, and that was your job, you get fired for being incompetent.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If we're in the government, you get promoted.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we're not talking about that. That. You just get me mad now. Don't do that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're talking about real people, not government people. These are. These are not bureaucrats. These are humans. And we just don't pay attention. Pay attention, write it down, agree on it with your spouse, give every dollar an assignment before the month begins, and then crack the freaking whip on those dollars and make them dance a jig so you end up with something out of it. I mean, get the chair out and the whip. You remember the old cartoon lion tamer? This Money, it's going to eat your butt if you do not take care of it. You know why other people have more? You know why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer? Because rich people keep doing rich people stuff. You know, rich people stuff is they pay freaking attention. They learn about investments. They invest. They. They do a budget. They agree on spending with their spouse and it keeps working and they keep doing it over and over and over and over and over again. And you know, you can't say, thank God it's Friday, oh God, it's Monday and end up anything but broke. Spend everything on the weekend. That's just short sighted, lack of vision. You need a written budget. This is why we named EveryDollar the world's best budgeting app. EveryDollar. Because you give every dollar an assignment. You make every dollar freaking behave. You can download every dollar for free in the app store or Google play or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. By the way, those of you listening to the show right this second, this is the last segment in this hour before we move to another segment. That last segment, the third segment of the show that's coming up in a few minutes, is only available on the Ramsey network app and it's completely free. But if you haven't downloaded the Ramsey network app yet, you need to so you can get the third element of the show. Third segment of the show every day, video and audio. And you can search it by call subject and you can send us an email and all kinds of stuff. So download the Ramsey network app for free in the app store. Download the every dollar app for free in the app store. See, now you're just all apt up as if you were at Applebee's or something and you just order the ampler platter. Got all the apps.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don't tease.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got all the apps. I'm just saying. I'm sure, I'm sure somewhere Robert Kennedy just passed out. Okay. Abigail in Tallahassee, Florida. Hey, Abigail, what's up?

[George Camel]

Hey. I was just needing some help trying to get my husband to be on board with the debt Snowball. We're about 70,000 in between a car loan and then like credit cards and other loans and then we make like 113 together. So I've got it. I outlined the budget of how to get it. Like we can get this done in probably about, you know, two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

But he just keeps like blocking me and I'm like, why let's. We don't. It's. I don't know why.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you do.

[George Camel]

He told you we have a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know him better than we do. What do you think behind this?

[Dave Ramsey]

He didn't just say, I want to be broke. I'm going to block you. He didn't say that. What did he say? Why didn't he want to do it?

[George Camel]

I. He just. When I tried to talk to him about it this weekend, his response was, well, just hand me over the finances and we'll get separate accounts and I'll pay what I pay out of my paycheck, and then you pay what you pay out of your paycheck. So that was like. That was the most recent reply.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Then basically he's saying, yes, we have a problem, but I have a different solution than you.

[George Camel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's different than he's blocking you.

[George Camel]

Well, he's didn't agree with you and.

[Dr. John Deloney]

His solution is to venmo you like a weird roommate situation.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, well, so here's the thing. How long ago did you start listening to our stuff?

[George Camel]

It's only been like a few weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I thought. Okay. So here's what happens. You came running in all excited with a brand new thing with your hair on fire, and he went, oh, God, she fell for a scam, she's joined a culture. Didn't he? That's why you laughed. I got you.

[George Camel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I appreciate your enthusiasm. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but you ruined it. Yeah. So what you need to do is go in and say, hey, listen, I owe you an apology. Because you do, by the way. You had information that he didn't have and you tried to cram it down his throat and you didn't mean to. You were just excited, enthusiastic. You found some hope for the first time. And you. And I don't blame you. I'm happy you got excited. I'm glad. Glad we were able to do that for you. I also want to do it for him. Okay. And so let's start with I'm sorry I went out this wrong. I really need you. I know you love me and I know you care about our future. And I really need you to listen to what I've been learning and listen to this stuff and then tell me what's wrong with it. And then turn on a YouTube debt free scream and turn on, turn on this segment of the podcast, which will be posted today, and that kind of stuff. And then, you know, because what he is prescribing, there's no data that said, there's zero research that says what he's suggesting works. As a matter of fact, there's a lot of research that says what he's suggesting won't work, but he is at least wanting to try something.

[George Camel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we've never had everything separate. We've always.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't want it to be separate. Separate. It needs to be together. And we. We need to be together. And I need. I need you as my man to hear me. And I need us to get aligned on where we're going, because this is scaring me to death where we are.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And separating everything makes me feel like a divorce. I know. I don't want a divorce.

[George Camel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And just start talking about this stuff and asking questions and draw him in and. Because, you know, you just unlock. He went up to a water fountain to get a drink. You turned on a fire hose because you were excited. And I'm glad you're excited. Don't misunderstand. That happens a lot, though. And then if you're not careful, you keep at it and you'll turn my name into a cuss word. Okay. That's the next step.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah. That guy. Cult leader over there. That bald guy. Yeah. And that's. That's what happens. It happens all the time. And so. Which is kind of weird because very few cult leaders are actually bald, but the. Most of them have really nice hair.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It could be a wig. We don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the. Anyway, the. So what we'll do, let me give you every dollar, and I'm going to give you Financial Peace University for free as our gift. And then say, hey, let's open these up and watch one of these videos together. And then you tell me if this is right or not. You tell me what's wrong with what they're saying, because I got some hope out of this, and I got really excited. This is you talking.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because hope is powerful, girl. It's wonderful. And so I'm so happy you got that. But. But he's not a bad guy, and he really doesn't want a divorce. He just. You just swooped in there pretty heavy on him.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I think if you back off a little, approach it calmly. Don't take a machine gun into a fishing tournament. Right, Right. That's the idea here. Right. Don't spray and pray. That's not what we're doing. So we're actually going to use a little bit of finesse here. Finesse? You're the wife. You know what finesse means? Husbands don't know what that means it's usually the husband. So you can do this. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, you're still here. What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the app store, Google Play store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app. For free. Yep, you heard me right. For free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.