Debt Is the Enemy of Your Freedom

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – “Debt Is the Enemy of Your Freedom”

Date: September 17, 2025
Host: Dave Ramsey (Ramsey Network)
Co-host: George Kamel
Theme: Empowering listeners to regain financial control by rejecting debt, embracing budgeting, and prioritizing healthy money habits. Dave and George field questions from callers, offer blunt and practical advice, and share real stories of financial struggle, reconciliation, and transformation.

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OVERVIEW

This episode centers on the fundamental Ramsey philosophy: debt is normal, so be weird and choose freedom. Through a spirited mix of live calls, tough love, and encouragement, Dave and George unpack how debt, disorganization, and poor relational habits around money threaten not only your finances—but your relationships and peace of mind. Whether tackling cars, marriages, real estate, windfalls, or second chances, the duo aims to equip listeners with actionable tools and a clear, values-driven approach.

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KEY DISCUSSIONS & INSIGHTS

1. The Philosophy: Debt is Normal—Be Weird

• Opening Rant (00:05): Dave denounces big banks and praises credit unions for putting people before profits. He excitement about the launch of the Ramsey Debit Card emblazoned with “Debt is normal. Be weird.”
  • Quote: “Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life.” — Dave Ramsey (00:07)

2. Relationship Dynamics & Money

a) Couple Dividing Bills & Car Debt (03:31)

• Situation: Caller Madison and husband split bills; she's overwhelmed by a $365/mo car payment on $600/mo income as a part-time worker/stay-at-home mom.
• Dave’s Advice: Marriage isn’t a joint venture—combine your lives and finances. Communicate, work toward shared goals, and sell the car if needed.
  • Quote: “When you went down the aisle... The preacher said, ‘and now you are one.’ He didn’t say, ‘I hope you can pay your car payment with your part time job.’” — Dave Ramsey (05:03)
• Insight: Separate finances breed resentment and chaos—unity creates progress and deepens intimacy.
  • Quote: “You guys are not pulling together, you're pulling at each other. And when you start pulling together instead of at each other, you make more progress, both relationally and everything else.” — Dave Ramsey (06:43)

b) Fear of Partner's Integrity with Money After Divorce (10:02)

• Situation: Brittany worries her boyfriend might turn out like her ex, who misrepresented his financial character.
• Advice: Prioritize character and integrity. Don’t project past wounds onto current partners, but communicate openly and insist on transparency.
  • Quote: “The only way to guard against it is to marry a guy of integrity... He is who he is, who he is.” — Dave Ramsey (11:28)
  • Combine accounts and budgets when married for trust.

3. Big Life Events, Settlements, & Planning

Motorcycle Accident & Settlement (22:26)

• Situation: Shane and wife both lost a leg, are soon to receive a $350k insurance settlement, but fear mishandling it.
• Advice: First, rebuild income/careers before investing or paying off the house. Use settlement to wipe out debt and set up emergency fund, then invest long-term. Don’t depend on the lump sum for survival.
  • Quote: “350... is not enough for you guys to not work the rest of your lives... You got to solve for income, and when you solve for income, then that frees up the money.” — Dave Ramsey (26:14, 28:25)
• Memorable Moment: Dave’s empathy for traumatic life upheaval (23:47–30:32).

4. Family Obligations & Enabling

Mother-in-Law’s Romance Scam Loss (33:06)

• Situation: Caller’s mother-in-law is financially devastated after sending $150k+ to a scammer, now unable to pay her mortgage (already in the caller’s name).
• Advice: Family wants to help, but avoid enabling. Only intervene if truly necessary, and be honest about what’s sustainable. Can afford $100/month, but bigger budget issues loom.
  • Quote: “If that's what they want to do, you can afford it. I just, I wouldn't be my first (choice)... If she wants to live that doesn't want to live there. I don't want to force her to live there.” — Dave Ramsey (37:13)

5. Education, Student Loans & Career Math

Sell or Rent Home for Advanced Degree? (38:13)

• Situation: Caller’s wife wants to pursue a Ph.D. (cost: $60k–$80k). Should they sell home for cash or rent it and borrow?
• Advice: Never borrow for school. Sell the house to fund education, cash flow, and keep overall investment in the degree as low as possible. ROI trumps sentimentality.
  • Quote: “I'm not going to tell you to borrow money for student loans, period, Ever, under any circumstance... Sell the house for sure.” — Dave Ramsey (40:31)

6. Navigating Parent PLUS Loans with Complex Family Dynamics (44:01)

• Situation: Julia’s mother (now bankrupt) holds a Parent PLUS loan Julia promised to pay.
• Advice: Not legally liable—pay household debts first, then fulfill promise if and when able. Setting personal priorities and firm boundaries is key.

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CALLER STORIES & RAPID-FIRE ADVICE (Select Highlights)

• Real Estate & Overleverage: Don’t borrow to invest—caller with five funded rental homes feeling regret is advised to sell, even at a loss, and reset (54:16).

  • Quote: “Play stupid games, get stupid prizes.” — Dave Ramsey (55:35)

• Overspending on Homes: Family with a $3,900/mo payment on $120k income urged to sell immediately, as they’re “house poor.” (56:29)

  • Quote: “Yes. You got to sell your house, kid. You bought a house you can't afford.” — Dave Ramsey (58:00)

• Windfalls & Big Life Starts: Young Army recruit asked about spending $34k bonus—spend a little for fun, prioritize debt payoff, emergency savings, and investing (100:01).

  • Quote: “If you invest in things that go down in value, you're going to be broke your whole life.” — Dave Ramsey (100:29)

• Dementia and Financial Protection: Longtime spouse dealing with partner’s dementia advised to get a court order declaring financial incompetence to protect family assets (91:41).

• When Your Uncle Saves You—With Stolen Money: Man facing moral dilemma over repaying a family “loan” after uncle is busted for immigration fraud: Dave says, pay him if you can, but don’t let a criminal’s opinion have power over your conscience (82:12).

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NOTABLE QUOTES & MOMENTS

“When you combine your income, your lives, your dreams, you create deeper intimacy. When you keep score, you create chaos.” — Dave Ramsey (06:43)

“Integrity is who you are when no one’s looking. It applies to love, money, everything.” — Dave Ramsey (11:28)

“When you start pulling together instead of at each other, you make more progress, both relationally and everything else.” — Dave Ramsey (06:43)

“A get rich quick scheme is what we would call it now looking back at it, right? The wise see that they seek refuge. The simple continues on and is punished for it.” — Dave Ramsey (70:41)

“You got a loan from someone, you pay it back not based on their character but on yours.” — Dave Ramsey (84:39)

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DEBT-FREE SCREAM (106:47)

• Leonel from California: Paid off $75,117 in 20 months on a CPA’s income.
• Key to success: “It’s behavioral, not mathematical. I lived on 25% of my pay, paid 75% toward debt. My family kept me accountable.” (107:54–110:47)
  • Quote: “It's more behavioral than it is actually mathematical... if you follow the plan and be aggressive toward the debt, you can pay it off.” — Leonel (108:33)

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PRACTICAL TACTICS FROM THE EPISODE

• Combine finances in marriage—separate finances create distance and resentment
• Agree on and live by a strict, transparent budget (with EveryDollar or similar tool)
• Tackle debts with the snowball method—pay off smallest first, gain momentum
• Never borrow for education—cash-flow and ROI matter most
• Windfalls: build sustainable income first, use lump sums for debt payoff, emergency fund, then long-term investing
• Protect financially vulnerable family members when mental capacity declines
• Don’t let guilt or toxic family dynamics drive your financial decisions
• Avoid get-rich-quick schemes—look for warning signs of scams, especially those wrapped in religious language

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EPISODE PHILOSOPHY IN THREE POINTS

1. Debt is the enemy of freedom—avoid it at all costs.
2. Financial unity in relationships creates trust, security, and relational health.
3. Practical wisdom and discipline—not luck or windfalls—are the foundation for lasting financial transformation.

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TIMESTAMPED SEGMENTS

• Money & Marriage Dynamics: 03:31–08:15
• Trust and Financial Infidelity: 10:02–18:38
• Legal Settlements & Windfalls: 22:26–30:32
• Family Scams & Obligation: 33:06–38:13
• Student Loans & Education Math: 38:13–43:42
• Morality and Family Loans (Fraud Angle): 80:47–84:39
• Debt-Free Scream: 106:47–112:52

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Summary Tone: Direct, energetic, occasionally humorous, always empathetic. Dave’s advice is tough love—he offers clear, actionable steps and never sugarcoats the reality of debt or the work required to achieve lasting freedom. George adds wit and relatability.

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CONCLUSION

If there’s a single message from this episode, it’s this: freedom from debt, not just wealth, is the real goal—and it’s achieved not by shortcuts, but by courage, discipline, and real partnership both in finances and in life.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. George Camel, Ramsey personality, host of the George camel hit on YouTube and the Ramsey Network. He's my co host today. Number one best selling author. And we're happy to have the leadership team from Fairwinds Credit Union here with us today at Ramsey headquarters. Welcome you guys. If you haven't heard, Fairwinds is our new studio sponsor. We've had a relationship with them for a little over a year and they've done a lot of wonderful things for you folks out there that have contacted them and they've even developed products just for you to get help. And as you guys know, I'm not a fan of actually I detest large banks. So stuff like bank of America. Why would you do business with them if you don't have brain damage? So are people like 5th, 3rd and I can go on from there and just name off all of my anti friends but I won't. So instead we tell folks to go to small town local banks and to credit unions and we always have for 30 some odd years on this show. And because you get treated like a human being there not a number and you actually find competent people there who care, that's an unusual thing too in the banking world. And so that's why we're so excited to have Fairwinds on as our studio sponsor and a partner for Ramsey. And they are doing some really cool stuff. You need to check them out. They've got a, they created the smart bundle for you Ramsey fans out there. It includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account which will help you supercharge that emergency fund, right? Actually start making some money on that thing. Don't keep it under your bed on a shoebox, boys and girls. And the Ramsey debit card just came, came out brand new. I saw the first real one last night. I got the prototype, I got to see it and it's actually a real one. It says right on the front of the debit card, debt is normal. Be weird. Now that's a way to pay for some stuff right there that'll catch some.

[George Kamel]

Attention from the cashier at checkout.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean when you go to Target, like everybody in there that's ever worked there for more than 10 minutes is trained to try to sell you one of their target credit cards and you Just have to go. No, look right here.

[George Kamel]

Read this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Read my card. Read my lips right and no, right here. Debt is normal. Be weird. No, I don't. I don't do your target card, baby. So there you go. It's a daily reminder you're doing money differently in the Ramsey debit card is officially launching September 17th. So we're there, baby. You can get it. Check it out. So, hey, we're so excited about this whole fair winds thing. And you guys ought to really. You can't imagine how much trouble we would go to around Ramsey to make sure that if we were going to have a credit union doing banking stuff on our studio name and right next to our name, how much trouble we went to to make sure they're good people and that they're going to treat you guys right and not just run you up a bunch of debt or something. They are great folks. Absolutely. And we're really, really excited about this. So check out the smart bundle. It's got the debit card, it's got the no fee checking and a high yield Savings [e-mail] Ra Madison is with us in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hey, Madison, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. I have some questions for you. Me and my husband are not seeing eye to eye on our car debt and I need your input.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

We just had a baby, our second baby, three months ago. And my husband pays all the bills and I just pay the car payment. Well, I'm sick of paying this car payment. We owe about 12,000 on it. We've had it for four years. And I'm just like, hey, let's go get a cheaper car. But he's all about reliability. He's like, the older cars aren't as reliable. And so I'm like, is it smart to go get like a $7,000 car, pay cash for it, or do we, you know, keep making this car payment? I mean, I only make like 600amonth working part time and being a stay at home mom. So our car payment is 365amonth. And I'm like, that is just over my. You know, that's all my money, basically.

[George Kamel]

So how long have you guys been living like roommates like this? Splitting up vils and venmoing each other.

[Caller]

Ever since we got the car. I mean, he's always provided, like he's always paid everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, darling, the car. No, darling. Answer George's question.

[George Kamel]

This is a pattern. There's other things going on here. This isn't just about the car payment. But you're making 600 bucks a month. And he's like, well, that's your car. You handle the payment. I'm not touching that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hand him one of those kids and say, that's your baby. I ain't touching that one.

[Caller]

Oof. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. This is ridiculous. Okay, stop. It's ridiculous the way y' all are doing. This is what's causing the problem. Okay? You need to combine your finances. All of your income is our income. When you went down the aisle, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. The preacher said, and now you are one. He didn't say, and now you're a joint venture and I sure hope you can pay your car payment with your part time job. The preacher didn't say that.

[Caller]

Okay. No, he didn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. And so you guys need to combine your lives because you have combined your bed and your children and everything else. And so this idea that you have to argue over who paid for the mustard in the refrigerator is asinine for a married couple. You guys need to sit down together, develop a game plan, work together on the whole thing. And then, yes, you'll probably need to sell this stupid car. I don't disagree. And this idea that there's no such thing as a reliable used car is ridiculous too, because 100% of the time that you drive a new car off the lot, you are now driving a used car.

[Caller]

Okay? So Dave, we also have a savings and we have like 10,000 in the savings account. He's like, what? What if we pay the car off? I mean, we sold 2,000, that'd be okay. No, let's get the car.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you want to do that and keep the car, that's fine. We decide that together. And then we have a monthly budget on every dollar and we are spending our money on our goals, dreams, and fears. Okay, really? Are you going to do that? You really have to do that, hun.

[Caller]

I know, I want to do it. I want to do it. But thinking about demanding. Draining.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, just demand it, Demand it.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

You have to do this because the people who do it have a higher quality marriage relationship and the people that do it have a higher probability of becoming millionaires. We've got data that backs us up. Okay? You guys are not pulling together, you're pulling at each other. And when you start pulling together instead of at each other, you make more progress, both relationally and everything else. When you can agree on your spending, you have communicated at a deeper level of intimacy. When you can agree on your spending, you have agreed on your future, you've Agreed on your fears. You've agreed on a stupid car. We can have an argument about reliability versus the $10,000 savings account. We can take all of those things and mix them in together. And you're missing out on all of. Because you're treating this like you're married to your college roommate or something. And no, no, no, no, no, no, no, please. Hey, try it my way and push through the awkwardness for 90 days. Do what George is suggesting and Dave is suggesting you'll never go back. But if I'm completely wrong, you can go back. And then you'll see a marriage counselor, which is what you'll need because you can't combine your lives. And that's what you'll be down to. But please try it.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, right now I can tell they have separate accounts. And he's going, well, this is my money. This is your money. I'll cover this, you cover that, and hopefully everything will work out well. She's going to be in debt and resentful for the next five years and who knows what he's doing with his extra money. Nobody has awareness or transparency in this marriage. There's no trust here. Yeah, just score keeping.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the biggest thing is there's just a tremendous amount of waste in this disorganization and chaos.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, it's like one of those finger traps. They're pulling away and they're just stuck where they are. You got to be moving in the same direction. That's the key.

[Dave Ramsey]

I haven't thought of those things in years.

[George Kamel]

I'm always thinking about those fingers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Find that metaphor.

[George Kamel]

Chuck E. Cheese near you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think Chucky coming from a Chuck E. Cheese near you.

[George Kamel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Brittany's in Missouri. Hey, Brittany. How are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my question is, my boyfriend and I have been together for a year and a half. We've talked about finances upside down and sideways. But from my past experience, a lot of relationships say they're on the same page with finances, and then once they get married, one of them go and end up being a bigger spender than they originally led on to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your past experience, you've been married before?

[Caller]

I have been, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what happened before?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you married a man without integrity.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it probably that lack of integrity bled into other areas, which is actually why you got the divorce, right?

[Caller]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry.

[Caller]

So I guess my question is I trust my boyfriend, but how do I. Like. I don't know. I guess I'm terrified that we will get married and then it won't be everything we talked about. But I know it's just my past experiences that are making me feel.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, I think we talked about it a minute ago, in a sense. And for me, looking at it, I think it's wisdom to ask the question. Because you got burned before. Right?

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But there's not. The only way to guard against it is to marry a guy of integrity.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And I didn't say he was Jesus, and I didn't say he was perfect. I just said he had integrity. Meaning he is who he is. Who he is who he is. I mean, it's kind of like saying, okay, how do I ensure that my boyfriend won't call his old girlfriend after he's my husband because he's a person of integrity and I would kill him. And, you know, both. And, you know. But I mean, you can't. You can't be sure of that, except as sure as you are of the man's character.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you need to date long enough that you are sure of his character, and you probably sit down and talk to your counselor, your pastor about your wounds, which are valid wounds, and go, okay, I don't want to. I don't want to superimpose the other jerk on the new guy. That's not fair. But I also want to be wise and not let that happen again. So how do I balance those two things? And, you know, and for me, I'm just going to be talking to your new boyfriend a lot about that if I'm you.

[Caller]

Okay. We talk about it like every day.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. He's probably sick of it. Yeah. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

So is he in debt now?

[Caller]

He is not a lot. He's got probably 20 to 30 thousand dollars in debt. I have none. But I also make no money to be in debt.

[George Kamel]

Okay. And is he actively trying to get out?

[Caller]

He is aggressively.

He still spends, but he is working towards it. I know he's paid off probably 20 to 30,000 in the past year.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so you think in another year he could be completely debt free?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

He could be debt free in the next six months if he wanted to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So independent of you, whether you were there or not. He seems to be trending in a debt free direction. His behavior is there. It's not just giving it mouth service. He's actually doing it.

[Caller]

Yes. So I guess my next question is, is it stupid to wait until he's debt free for us to make the next step of getting engaged? I know you always say that. Just put everything together and pay off the debt together.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I would not. I would not base my engagement on debt free. I would base my engagement on his pattern of behavior.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If he's going in the right direction and you're comfortable with his character and this is who you want to spend your life with, then spend your life with him. I'm not. You know, if you have to put out a ultimatum, a, I don't know, in order to earn my. My hand, you will have that. That's a little much. Yeah, I'm not.

[George Kamel]

How long have you guys been together?

[Caller]

A year and a half.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so this is still progressing toward an engagement? Maybe in the next year?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. We don't tell people to wait to get married or have babies based on their debt. We do tell them to wait on those things based on how they're treating their debt. Are you being a freaking adult and addressing the issue or are you still being a baby child?

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he's very responsible.

[Caller]

He's definitely addressing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he's doing it. Everything you've described about the guy is solid versus the last guy. And so. But it's fair to say you got burned. And so I've got this spot and, man, you just really. I'm gonna be super sensitive about this subject because I got burned before, and so, dude, you're gonna have to be super diligent to stay on the path.

[George Kamel]

I'd share your fears and feelings with him and say, listen, this has happened in the past. I don't want to project this onto you, but I want you to Know, this is how I'm feeling. And if I'm him now, I'm going to be real sensitive and probably more aggressive to getting out of debt so that you feel like, man, he's going. He's not going to be making dumb financial decisions that move us backward.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Brittany, I'll give you an example, okay? We went broke. We had a brand new baby, a toddler, and a marriage hanging on by a thread. My wife was terrorized by our water being cut off, our lights being cut off, and me filing bankruptcy. She was in a constant state of fear. That was 30 plus years ago. I still, as a loving husband to this day need to be aware that there is a wound when it comes to security around the issue of money with Sharon Ramsey. She's not a walking wounded warrior. And the wound has healed progressively over the 30 years. And my behaviors for 30 years have been different than the get rich quick moron that went broken. Okay? So I've earned the right of trust. But I, as an act of love towards her, need to remember that if I even walk near the drawer where the emergency fund is kept, where the little file so we can get to the emergency, if I even near walk near the drawer, like I'm going to use that for something else, it puts her in a way different state of mind. And I need to keep that in mind in how I interact with her. This guy needs to keep in mind that you got burned before and you've got this sensitive place and it'll be less sensitive as time goes along, but you just need to be aware of each other's wounded spots and go, why would we go there? And so I'm just real aware. Sharon needs to be reminded that we're okay.

[George Kamel]

And you earn it every day by continuing that same pattern of integrity. And the crazy part is it takes a long time to build the trust and you can destroy it in a second.

[Dave Ramsey]

But even then, it's not unfair to me to. Even though I've rebuilt the trust and a pattern's been for 30 plus years. Right? It's not unfair to ask me to be aware that she has that sensitive spot. Right? As a matter of fact, that's just how you live together if you're married. And so that's fair. It's fair, Brittany, for him to be aware of this. It's not an invalid feeling, not an invalid concern.

[George Kamel]

And there's tactical things you can do once you're married, like combining your bank account so you both have transparency into what's going on financially Doing that budget together, freezing your credit so that no one can go just take out a loan willy nilly. And if he goes and takes out debt behind your back, well, clearly there's a very clear violation of trust here. And so that's your biggest fear. And I think there's things we can do before then.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I guess my point is, in this case, were he to do that, knowing that she has this sensitive spot, this is more than just a violation of trust. This is like saying, I don't really want to be here. Yeah, you're like, you're.

[George Kamel]

It's game over.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're shooting. You're shooting the dead. I mean, you're shooting the cow. It's over, man. It's just dumb. So you go, you know, knowing that she's got that spot. So it's quite the opposite way to approach it. So it's a good question, Brittany. Thank you for bringing it up. And it's a pretty standard thing. If you have been down the, you know, you're going into a second marriage relationship, if the first one had some kind of money problems, which, by the way, money problems, fights, number one, cause a divorce in North America. So if you went through a divorce, high probability that there's a money issue in there. And then you take that to the next relationship. And how do I deal with that and not have that happen again? That's why I wanted to spend a minute on her question. Because it's not just for her. It's for, you know, out of the 40 million people out there listening, it's probably a couple more just like her.

[George Kamel]

A lot of people have that baggage from previous relationships, whether it's family or a loved one, a marriage. And it takes a long time to heal from that and to trust again. And at any moment, you're like, you're going, my body's saying, this could be broken. This could be broken. Alert, alert. And so it takes time, like you said, to get away from that and to heal from that. And hopefully over time, you guys build the right habits. You do the things we teach, combine bank accounts, get on a budget, and that'll sort of disappear into the back of your mind.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. When there's no money being spent that you're not aware of and have agreed to, that makes trust really easy. And that's called a budget. That's called doing your every dollar budget together as a couple when you're married.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

Hi. How you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my wife and I were in a serious accident and we both lost our left leg and, and things kind of just. Well, it goes very fast once that happens. So we're, we went, we're in the hospital, we got out and now we're starting to do our recovery and then we got lawyers involved of course. Luckily I hit all the right boxes on my insurance so my medical for our injuries are going to be covered for the rest of our lives. But the lawyers, I didn't know, they were so fast. Like, they closed, and they said, hey, in 45 days, you're gonna get a settlement of roughly $350,000. And I'm, you know, we're factory workers. We try to do the best we can, but, you know, we're not prepared for, you know, a quarter of a million dollars. So my question is, you know, I asked friends and stuff, but what do I do from here to set myself up for success? Not right now, even just in the future, because we are going to have hurdles, and we are going to have challenges. So that's. That's my question, is how do I not blow this big lot of money and set us up for a good future?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, man, you guys have been through hell. I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long ago was the accident?

[Caller]

We're not even three months through. We're both in rehab and doing pretty good.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you both lost a leg?

[Caller]

I'm afraid we did, yeah. We were going through a green light, and somebody decided to turn left, and we were doing 55, and it took both of our legs.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're on a motorcycle.

[Caller]

On a motorcycle, yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right.

[Caller]

Yeah. And we're getting recovered, and all that recovery is covered.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me ask you this. The first thing that comes to mind is that it doesn't sound like you're getting enough.

[Caller]

Well, that's the thing. He was an underinsured motorist, so we got $50,000 each from his. Kind of an insult to losing a leg. But I. Luckily I checked the full pip, so all of our medical stuff is covered from my insurance, my car insurance, and then it maxed out at 250,000 each. And then the lawyers take their chun and we're left with, you know what's left.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your lawyer is getting a chunk of your insurance.

[Caller]

Yeah, we got a lawyer to make sure we got everything right. And they take 30%.

[George Kamel]

Of whatever insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

And basically they got nothing for you. I mean, they got his underinsured motors, which is basic stuff, and they got yours that you already covered. You already had. There was no big negotiation here. They just caused the insurance company to write a check they should have written anyway. Correct. This is not a good deal for you, okay? You're paying way too much in attorney's fees for them to do something that. That you probably could have done on your own. This is not. This is not an injury lawsuit here. This is just your insurance paying its claims.

[Caller]

It was a. It was an insult when we got it because, I mean, we're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's not an insult. It's all they had. The guy's broke. He's not gonna. You can't get blood out of a rock, but.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but it wasn't. It wasn't like a personal insult, but it's. It' sad small amount. Okay, well, at least I know how we got there. Now back to your question, man. Okay. 350, mathematically, is not enough for you guys to not work the rest of your lives.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're. I mean, let's just pretend you invested it at 10% for easy numbers. That's $35,000 a year. You're not. You know, that's not gonna work out.

[Caller]

We made about 70 when we were working, and you get 80% pay for, like, three years, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that's gonna be helpful while you rehab and retool for a new career.

[Caller]

We also, just before that, we need a new roof, which we couldn't really afford. So we refinanced. We put all of our debt into the house. I know. I know how you feel about that, but I was out of options. The house would have deteriorated too much. So we owe $150,000, and we have no other debt but utilities.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what I would do is to try to. During the time you're getting your 80% pay, to create a career for each of you. Where the net is. Is that you actually end up with your new careers making more than you used to make.

[Caller]

Okay. That's what we're kind of thinking, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

You get. If you get there, then you don't have need of this money for survival.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then we can use it in the ways that you would rather use it, which would be paying off the house and investing. It was my.

[Caller]

That was my question, too. Like.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I'm not doing that until you got an income, dude.

[Caller]

Okay.

All right.

That's what I was wondering.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So you've got. What are y' all gonna do? Do you. I mean, or you've already thought about this. What do you think you're gonna do?

[Caller]

I'm not sure. But, you know, when I. So the bummer, too, is that my friend had a trash truck driving job for me, which would have been a substantial step up, and they match, like, double digit for your retirement, which we have none. And they would. It would have been better pay. I got my permit, and then two weeks I was gonna, you know, start the classes, and I had that job lined up, and then we got hit. And that kind of. I don't know. Once I get the prosthetic And I get better with it. Maybe I could do something like that. But we're still talking manual labor with a leg that, you know, I don't have any idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know how. But wow, that's. That's the stuff you're facing. So you've got to solve for income, and when you solve for income, then that frees up the money and then you can decide what to do with it. And it's pretty basic because you don't have a lot of options. I mean, you know, you pay off the house, and I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and get this money invested and pretend like I don't have it. In other words, I don't have a house payment anymore. I don't have any debt anymore. I'm gonna live on a budget, and I'm gonna create a sustainable life with my income and never touch the rest of that money.

[Caller]

So you would pay off the house and then with the rest of the money investing. Yes, and get somebody to help me because I'm. My phone was like money market account and.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, your friend. Don't listen to your broke friends about money.

[Caller]

I know, I know.

Hey, I know. I. Right away I was like, I don't know. I need somebody, I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Professional.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvestor Pro and they can help him.

[George Kamel]

Jordan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And then make sure you get an emergency fund before you invest that money. Set aside six months of expenses to cover you guys in case of emergencies before you use the rest of that money. But that'll set you up. You get that foundation. Right, and get the income going. You've got a great quality of life.

[Dave Ramsey]

The money will turn into a lot of money over time if it's invested and you keep your hands off of it because you've created a sustainable income with your new careers. Yeah. So, hey, I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, finding the work you're wired to do. And it'll help me, maybe help you on this journey of figuring out what your next new normal looks like. What a wild, horrible thing to go through 55 miles an hour.

[George Kamel]

With no protection there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

On that motorcycle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's just. Wow, man. Crazy.

[George Kamel]

But here's the. The news on the compound growth like you mentioned. You leave 150 grand sitting there for a couple decades, it turns into a couple million if you add nothing to it. And so that's the good news, is that this could add a nice Cushion to their nest egg. And who knows what the rest of their life looks like with expenses and medical and how this affects other areas of their life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. Well, the great news, he's got 80% pay. That's pretty good workers comp right there, man. Or whatever it was. He's got disability. I guess disability income is probably what it is. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. He had checked the boxes on the insurance lawyer ought to be ashamed of himself taking a fee on that. Ra Life is unpredictable. That's why I teach the importance of things like having an emergency fund, buying term life insurance, and getting a will from my friends at Mama Bear Legal forums. Because if you don't plan ahead for when you're gone, it can cause a big mess. And that's the last thing your family needs, especially when they're grieving your loss at the same time. But a will spells out exactly what you want to happen after you've passed away. No guesswork, no courtroom and no family fights. Just peace and clarity. It's your way of saying, I love you and I took care of this so you don't have to. And thanks to Mama Bear, getting your will done is fast, easy and affordable. In just 20 minutes, you can give your family the peace of mind they'll need during one of the most challenging times of their lives. And unlike a lot of other online will companies, the price you see at the beginning is the price you pay at mama bear legalforms.com so take care of it today. Go to mamabearlegalforms.com use the promo code Ramsey to save 20%. That's 20% off with code Ramsey@mama bear legal forms.com Katie is in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi Katie, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm great. Long time listener, first time caller. I'm so excited.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Yes, hi, I'm calling because I have a mother in law who has been scammed out of probably somewhere between 150 to $200,000. She lives a quarter mile from our house in a patio home which she purchased from the sale of her home in North Carolina. That patio home is in my husband and I's name and we're wondering if she should move in with us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would she do that?

[Caller]

Well, she no longer can pay for the mortgage out of what she is currently getting.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she didn't purchase, she didn't pay for the home. When she bought it, she took out a mortgage.

[Caller]

When she bought it, she took out a mortgage. The mortgage is in our name. My husband and I.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she didn't have enough money from the sale in North Carolina to buy the house? No.

[Caller]

Well, she, she did. She. She stockpiled the rest of it in a savings account. And then when she had an online scammer tell her that he was gonna come to the United States and marry her.

[George Kamel]

Not once, but it was a romance scam.

[Caller]

Yes, the romance scam. That's exactly right. And so obviously, you know, my heart bleeds for her because she's lonely. He lost her husband probably. And, and my husband and I, when we first got married, he said, why, when my dad dies, my mom's moving in with us. And I said, that's great. I love your mom. Plus, she gives me diamonds.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so if you sell the patio home and she moves in with you, then you've gotten your wish. What's the question?

[Caller]

Yes, yes. Probably 250. Some odd thousand dol. My husband and my mother in law don't want that to happen. We are supporting my mother in law with not a lot, basically 50 to $100 a month to stay in her patio home. But we can't afford that either. My husband and I are both horse trainers. We got into a little bit of tax trouble after the sale of a horse a couple of years ago. Now we have a great accountant on board and I see the light at the end of the tunnel. We could probably be debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is your household income?

[Caller]

We are averaging. I'm using the Dave Ramsey app, which I love. We're averaging about $7200 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can afford $100?

[Caller]

Pardon me?

[Dave Ramsey]

You can afford $100. You said you're using giving her $100 a month to stay afloat, and I can't afford that. That's not true. You can't afford it. You have $7200. $100 is not breaking you.

[Caller]

It's not breaking us, but we are like by the end of every month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You have other issues, then it's not your mother in law if $7,100 worth of other issues.

[Caller]

Yes, yes, we do. We do.

[George Kamel]

And the other part is, if mother in law can't pay the mortgage, you're getting foreclosed on because it's in your name.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So that is also correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And she's paying that with her Social Security. I assume.

[Caller]

She is paying that with her Social Security. And then on top of it, barely has enough to pay for the medication that she needs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[George Kamel]

So this is unsustainable for her to stay in this house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, at 100 bucks a month is sustainable is what she's saying. Yeah, they're giving her a hundred dollars a month. That's making her budget balance. That's what her husband and the mother in law want to do. And she wants to sell the house and have her move in for 100 bucks. No, you don't have a math case to make this case. If you guys as a family want to do this to take care of her and everyone involved thinks it's a great idea, it's not a problem for me. Sell the patio home and put the money in an investment and you'll be fine from the equity in that thing. But the idea that $100 a month is not sustainable when you make 7200 is not true. There's other things going in your budget that may not be sustainable. So if that's what they want to do, you can afford it. I just, I wouldn't be my first. Well, I don't know. I mean, if you want to. If she wants to live that doesn't want to live there. I don't want to force her to live there. So it's just sounds like she's more.

[George Kamel]

Lonely than anything at this point. Yeah, but she's a quarter mile away. She's not too far.

[Dave Ramsey]

Austin's in Oklahoma. Hey, Austin, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. So about three years ago, my wife and I, we bought our home and then now my wife is looking at going and getting her doctorate degree. And so if we were to do that, we would have to move away for a little while, probably three, maybe four years at the max. And so my question to you is, would you suggest we sell our home and take that equity to pay off and reduce, not get any student loans? Or would you suggest us just renting the home, taking on some loans or some debt for that student for the doctorate degree and then eventually we'd like to come back. And so that's the main reason we would want to rent instead of just selling it. I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are your thoughts? Why is she getting a doctorate degree?

[Caller]

So she can be a professor in what? It's like a biblical theological studies.

[Dave Ramsey]

And does she have a, does she have a career now?

[Caller]

She does.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does she make at her career?

[Caller]

About 40,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so she could make a hundred as a seminary professor.

[Caller]

Yeah, probably between 80 to 100.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's probably about right. I agree with you. So that's the return on investment in the Ph.D. and what's the Ph.D. cost?

[Caller]

It's about 60 to 80.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're gonna send 60 to 80,000 to get a 30 to get a $40. Forty thousand dollar raise. That's probably okay. I'd spend 60, I wouldn't spend 80. But yeah. And that's going to take how long?

[Caller]

I think the max is typically four years. I think it can be done in three at some schools, depending on which.

[George Kamel]

One is she working while she.

[Dave Ramsey]

But also then she has to go somewhere where she can get that job after she completes it and it probably won't be your hometown.

[Caller]

Yeah, I. There. We do have some connections in the hometown with a couple schools. So there is like there's a chance. Not super high, but I mean it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not, it's not a sure thing. So number one, I'm not going to tell you to borrow money for student loans, period, Ever, under any circumstance. Number two, I'm not going to tell you to borrow money on student loans so that you can keep a rental property so that, that just double down. So no, I'd sell the house for sure.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You want, if she wants this dream and you guys are on this dream more than you want this house, then it sounds like you do, then the proper thing to do is use the house money to get the PhD and then use the PhD to get your next house.

[Caller]

Okay. Which we do have. We have savings, but I.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you don't have enough to do.

[Caller]

This and everything else.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have enough to do this because you said you were going to take out student loans, but they cover.

[Caller]

About half of it. Still be student loans, whatever.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, don't do student loans. Pay cash for the PhD or don't do it.

[George Kamel]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

About 180,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

I mean you could save up in a year and knock this out and cash flow it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's an irony for you. Here's an irony for you. You can't find anywhere in the Bible that God used debt to finance his plan on the earth. Not once in there. And she's going to study biblical studies. So no, don't, don't be borrowing money to do this. No. You know, it's too much irony here to chew on. Don't. Don't do it. No, no, don't do it. And don't go into debt for a PhD. Don't go into debt for a master's. Don't go into debt for a bachelor's. There's lots of ways to get your education out there today. It's ridiculous to do that. And, and then try to keep in mind that what you're looking for is a return on investment on this education. And the lower the investment, the better the return. So get the cheaper PhD because nobody's going to give a rip where you went to school.

[George Kamel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. George Camel Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and co host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. He's my co host today. The phone number here is 888-255-2225. Julia's in Colorado. Hi Julia, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, first of all, I love you guys. So happy to hear that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you.

[Caller]

I have to you guys for like the last eight months, me and my husband and I and we've been working on getting through steps one and two. We just had a baby not that long ago in May. And I heard just through the grapevine that my mother is going bankrupt. I think she already filed actually. And she has a parent plus loan from my first two years of college and husband just recently just started asking me to help pay for it, which we already agreed that I would pay for it. That was the goal. But I had like no idea what we signed up for and I don't know what it looks like with her filing bankruptcy.

[Dave Ramsey]

The parent plus loan is not bankruptible. It will depend on what type of bankruptcy she files as to whether it will affect the loan at all. Okay, okay. There's two types of bankruptcy that might work. One would be chapter 13 bankruptcy, which is a payment plan for five years. If she puts the parent plus loan in the chapter 13 bankruptcy which is she's doing one. She probably did. Then they're going to be paying payments inside the bankruptcy on that loan through that five year period of time. Okay.

[Caller]

Oh, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so it's a mess. It's a mess. And so if she files chapter seven bankruptcy, which is what most people think of when you think of bankruptcy, which wipes the slate clean. The Parent plus loan is not bankruptible and it'll still be standing after the bankruptcy. It'll wipe off her credit card debt, it'll wipe off her medical debt, it will wipe off any unsecured debt, but it won't wipe off a student loan or an IRS debt. So she still owes it. But the bottom line is you morally owe it because you promised to pay it. Correct?

[Caller]

I did.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's not. Either way, it's not going away. And so either way you're going to get the opportunity to do what you said and pay the bill. But you don't even know how much the stupid thing is.

[Caller]

I do actually. Sent me a statement last year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I just had trouble like getting in there because I thought I was co signed on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like not on apparent, you can't get in there. But what was the balance?

[Caller]

It was about 19,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. And what's your household income?

[Caller]

A couple hundred. So my husband and I, we make anywhere between 40 to 50k. We're working on growing our income right now. He just started a business and that's gradually growing as time goes by.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much debt do you have other than this? 19k parent plus loan.

[Caller]

So without that would be about 30k. That 16 is on credit cards. He has a credit card. And then we have a car which is only about 9,800 of it. And then the rest is other student loans. Because I went back into school thinking I can do it now that I was sober because I went through this whole time period where I was struggling in addiction and I really got behind on finances and it took a long time to catch up. Up. This is my fourth year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Proud of you. What were you, what were you on? What were you addicted to.

[Caller]

Mainly? So I started out on psychedelics and then I would use weed to kind of make up for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

When I gave up the harder stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you've been driving for four years. Good for you, kiddo. And you got a baby and things are turning around. Your husband's got a new business. Good, good, good for you. I'm glad.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[George Kamel]

Are you working full time right now?

[Caller]

So Yes, I am working full time. I'm an independent contractor in the marketing industry as a brand ambassador. So I have busier seasons, like throughout the summer and spring into fall, and then winter is our slower season. So we like to make up for it with Instacart. And then we also do ministry on the side. So we have some fundraising money that's coming in and we're starting to learn how to fundraise a little bit for that stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And he's got to get his business going because you don't make any money.

[Caller]

No, we don't make a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, you need to really get the career going, both the careers going and get them going. Because basically what we're saying is you got $30,000 worth of debt plus 19 that you promised to pay of your mom's. And again, you're not legally obligated. So what I would do is deal with what's in your house right now, let's get your income up and address these debts, smallest to largest. And once you're out of debt, then I would reach over and start taking care of the parent plus loan that you promised to. But it's not in your name. You are not legally liable. You're just morally liable because you did a handshake with your mom, said, I'll pay it.

[Caller]

Right. And I think the problem is, like I explained that to her recently, that we're trying to do the snowball. We're just getting our household in line and then paying off the way you guys teach. But there we don't have the best relationship. It's already strained.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And like, we don't talk. She hasn't even met her grandson yet. Because I don't feel like I can and let her into my life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, that's okay. I mean, you still are going to go and pay the bill when you can pay the bill. You paying a bill one way or paying it another way is not going to fix your relationship with your money.

[George Kamel]

And it's not going to fix her money problems either.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's not paying it now. So, I mean, if you want to start paying the minimum payment on it as a part of your plan, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, attack the little one. When it's gone, attack the next one. That snowball process. Right. If you want to pay this and put this in the debt snowball that way, I don't have a problem with that. But prepaying that loan before you take care of these other things. No, I wouldn't Regardless of if it upsets the person that's already upset. Oh, well, right. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And what kind of business does your husband do?

[Caller]

So he kind of does a lot of different things related to music. He rents equipment, and then he's a show promotion promoter and he runs a record label. So there's a lot of different things going on in that area.

[George Kamel]

Which one is most lucrative?

[Caller]

The most lucrative would probably be his show promotion and planning. We make. We're making up to 200 a show right now.

[George Kamel]

So he needs to do 10 shows a month to make two grand.

[Caller]

About. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Is he doing that?

[Caller]

No, but we're just getting started. He just got started with that, like, a couple months ago.

[George Kamel]

I would make this a side hustle, and he should be working full time doing something else, even if it's retail, because you guys need consistent income right now. We can't hope for a show and hope for a brand ambassador gig. We need stability.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. When Instagram's your fallback, it means you need new careers.

[Caller]

Right. So the problem is he had a manager job last October and there was a lot of politics with the regional manager and just last minute lost his job when I was pregnant. And so he's been trying to get a lot of have, like, jobs that doesn't require like 60, 70 hours as a manager. And they won't hire him unless he's like, full time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he needs. He's got a baby. He needs to be working full time.

[George Kamel]

He's in crippling debt and his family needs him. He should be working 60 hours a week right now. We got a mess to clean up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Great place to go when you're broke to work. SA statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Sponsor/Guest]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Caller]

Insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[Caller]

And.

[Sponsor/Guest]

Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me, too.

[Sponsor/Guest]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here and, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's gonna invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's gonna eat tomorrow.

[Sponsor/Guest]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options and take care of your dadgum family.

[Sponsor/Guest]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah, to just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Our question of the day is brought to you by why refi? You've tried budgeting, you've tried making minimum payments, but those defaulted private student loans are still weighing you down. Well, why refi? Might be able to help. Learn [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not in Allstates.

[George Kamel]

Today's question comes from Kurt in South Carolina. I decided to dive into real estate investing a few years ago. I bought five single family homes, all 100% financed for a total of $825,000 and thought, wow, I'm a genius. I also had 175,000 personal mortgage and 40,000 in student loans. I had my wake up call last week when I had to take my 3 year old with me to post an eviction notice on a tenant store. I just didn't take into consideration the time and the emotional stress this leap would require. Not to mention the constant calls for repairs. The house is cash flow and the tenants pay on time, but at this point, the return doesn't outweigh the hassle. I bring home 150k from my day job and my wife, who's a stay at home mom, could work from home if needed. How do I get out of this mess? Man, this guy sounds like a young Dave Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly. Well, except I have had a little better situation than he's got.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, he's 100% financed, he's got personal student loans and he's going, how do I get out? Well, the good news with the house is you can sell them. So that's maybe one way out of this mess.

[Dave Ramsey]

George, that was insightful.

[George Kamel]

I'm Yoda of the finance world.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it. Just sell the house, dude. I mean, why do you even need to ask the question?

[George Kamel]

And he might take a loss on some of them. I mean, who knows what they.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow. You pay some stupid tax for doing stupid stuff. Stuff. But play stupid games, get stupid prizes. But yeah, I mean, I've done that. Right. And you have too. Everybody's done that. But yeah, you just woke up and went, I just did a bunch of $825,000 worth of stupid. The good news, I can probably get 800,000 worth out of it and it'll only be $25,000 worth of stupid, so. And I make 150, so I'll clean up the mess.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. The good news is his day job has a great income and so maybe.

[Dave Ramsey]

They went up in value enough.

[George Kamel]

He said a few years ago. So if this is, you know, 2022, we've seen some decent appreciation over the last few years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. South, maybe you can make a little money on it even and get out whole. That would be incredible.

[George Kamel]

Knock out your student loans in the process, get you an emergency fund and restart from there and do it the right way, which is slow, which is, let's get rid of the personal mortgage first, then save up and pay cash for any investment property.

[Dave Ramsey]

Katie's in Utah. Hi, Katie, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. I'm better than I deserve. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just the same. What's up?

[Caller]

So I am the mother of eight children. We just had our eights back in April and I homeschool them, I stay home with them, and my husband is a physician assistant. And a couple years ago we bought our first home. Top of the market, top of interest rate. We were kind of lured into it by the 2:1 buy down idea. And our mortgage hit its full scope in July. And I feel like I'm going crazy. So I'm wondering if you would advise us to actually sell our home.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your house payment?

[Caller]

3,900.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your husband's take home pay?

[Caller]

He makes 120,000 and that's. He works full time at one clinic and he works. He picks up a couple extra shifts at another clinic and he's also donating plasma every week so we can pay for groceries.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, because Your house payments 50% of your take home pay.

[Caller]

I know, I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it was before the two one started even. I mean, it already was in the stupid zone when. As soon as you moved in. The 2 one didn't even buffer that.

[Caller]

We were living with my parents and I was expecting my seventh child. And my husband was commuting an hour every day.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but I mean, you went from. You went from homeless in your mother's basement to $4,000 a month.

[Caller]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is not like a small step. This was a great leap.

[Caller]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. You got to sell your house, kid. You bought a house you can't afford.

[George Kamel]

Unless his income is about to double, which I don't think that's in the cards.

[Caller]

I know it's not. The thing too, is that he loves his job so much and where we live is actually very, very expensive. So even renting like a three bedroom house would cost us around 3,000amonth where we live.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you can't afford to live there then.

[Caller]

I've been telling him this for a long time. Back in May, when I had my four week old baby, I said, let's just sell our house and live in the trailer. Trailer. I'm willing to do anything, but it's hard for me to get him on board with making.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not saying live in a trailer, but you, you go to extremes. You go to extremes. $3,000 a month rent to a trailer in one sentence.

[Caller]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why don't you just go do something reasonable like 2,000 bucks a month and live out far enough away that you can find that and let him go to work.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And let's get rid of this problem. But yeah, yeah, don't. You know, and then let's start talking. Maybe you can find something you can buy that fits in that. I don't care if you own or not. But. But the house payment needs to be more like a fourth of your take home pay, not half of your take home pay, especially when you have eight little birds to feed.

[George Kamel]

That's. I can't imagine eight kids in a trailer. That's.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, we're not doing a trailer. And we're not going back to mama's either. None of that's necessary. But I mean, we're a fur piece from there at four grand a month. Okay. That's a. This is a pig. Big, serious nice house here. So there's a lot of different things we can do. Millie is in Washington. Hi, Millie, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I had to pay the stupid tax and I did the wrong thing in the past and I'm trying to do the right thing now. So I'm calling you asking for advice. And my question is, should I cash out my index fund? And if I should, should I use it to pay towards student loans or for car repairs or for both.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's wrong with your car?

[Caller]

One of the problems, they're not sure. They can't figure it out. The other one is like cooling system. He's replacing. Their estimate for that is 1900.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whose estimate? The dealer?

[Caller]

No, the mechanic.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have an independent mechanic that doesn't work at a dealership?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. Are you. Is it just you? Are you single? You're married?

[Caller]

I am single with five children.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what's your income, ma'?

[Caller]

Am?

I've been told this month is about 3,000, but I am increasing my hours and I did just get a raise. I do have some health issues from keeping me from I'm working too many hours or physical labor, but for the job I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are the kiddos?

[Caller]

I'm working what I can. My youngest is 12 and the oldest is 18. She set it off to college here this week.

[George Kamel]

Is there any child support or alimony?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

There. In lieu of alimony, I did when we divorced, I did give a little bit extra on the house when we sold it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that money's in the index. How much is in your index?

[Caller]

7,800, not much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much student loan debt do you have?

[Caller]

About 90,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, number one, you're out here, you're out there fighting this by yourself. So you got to get the car to where it's reliable, period. And more debt is not the answer to do that. So, yes, we have to use some of this to get the car reliable and the rest of it. But, you know, we're going to try to make sure that you continue to move up in your career and continue to raise your income because that's going to be the issue to address the 90,000. What did you get your degree in?

[Caller]

I got it in marriage and family therapy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Undergrad or did you finish your master's?

[Caller]

My master's.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're licensed?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you not doing that?

[Caller]

I am doing that.

[Dave Ramsey]

$3,000 a month?

[Caller]

Yes. Because I was only working three days a week. But I'm increasing. I just increased it to four days. And like I said, they just gave me a raise bill. It will be going up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Because most issue is that I work 50 miles from home. So it makes it a little bit of a juggle with the kids and making sure they're out the door in.

The morning and such.

[George Kamel]

So can you do any remotely part time?

[Caller]

Not with this company.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because, you know, if we can arrange rearrange this situation a little bit A typical marriage licensed marriage and family therapist will make 100 plus a year.

[Caller]

Yes, but I only am at an associate level right now. I'm not fully licensed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller]

Because I just graduated in 2023 and just got this license in 2024.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you got it. You got to get some hours. You got to get some hours in to move up. Okay. All right. Yeah, you're gonna have, I mean, the income is going to be your overall answer, not a $7,800 index fund. But for now, the answer is yes, fix the car. But long term, the answer is, is let's rearrange our situation so we can get our income up. And I think that's going to be really, really important in order to be able to create a sustainable situation.

[Sponsor/Guest]

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[Caller]

Stuff.

[Sponsor/Guest]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Sponsor/Guest]

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[Dave Ramsey]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free everydollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities, George or Rachel or Jade. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find thousands of dollars of margin using every dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth. Plus, you can ask Us Any question during the live Q and A? Sign up for [e-mail] webinar Greg is in San Diego. Hi, Greg. How are you? You?

[Caller]

I'm doing well. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So after listening to your show, I learned that I acknowledge that I made an impulsive decision. I attended a faith based event in 2024, and the event pretty much motivated faith believers to invest in the real estate market and also the stock market. I paid for that training. I didn't have the money, but they told me that if I charged it on credit cards that I would be able to make that money up during the zero interest period and pay off the charge and learn how to trade. Well, that period is gone and it didn't happen. So now I'm now stuck, you know, because now I have a $20,000 credit card debt from that and I haven't made much money on the stock market. So now talking to my wife, I'm trying to decide, okay, do I keep trying to invest and pay and make money so I can pay off this charge that I accepted or should I just focus and go back to the snowballing the credit car debt?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, Greg. Yeah. You got scammed.

[Caller]

Yeah. After the fact, I realized it and we were doing, we were doing the snowball effect. We were going, we're on track. We were about 20k away from reaching zero. But when I saw this, I said, hey, we, we can do this and I'll accept, you know, my leadership decision at my home. I thought it sounded great.

But it.

Is what it is. So I'll.

[Dave Ramsey]

You were looking for, you know, you were looking for an easy button.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And there's no easy button. And this easy button is broken. It's. And you've discovered that now. So I'm sorry, man. Yeah. You just got to pay your 20 grand off and the last thing you do is keep investing the way they were teaching you because you're gonna get in more trouble.

[Caller]

So we do have money on the side because I was going to invest. So you're saying, oh, you do more. I'm paying off the debt, buddy. Thousand bucks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Just, you know, you're going to do what you're going to do, but if you ask us, we're going to tell you what we would have told you before you did all this. And that's list your debts, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. Take all your money that's not in retirement accounts and Throw it at these debts in that order, and let's get them cleaned up. Because the shortest distance between where you are and wealth is not an easy button. Stock market. Course it is your income. And getting that back and understanding that the borrower is slave to the lender is the only way to do it. There's nothing worse than a scam artist except a scam artist that wraps himself.

[George Kamel]

In Jesus and charges $20,000 for this quote unquote training. Man, that's heartbreaking, Greg.

[Dave Ramsey]

That just pisses me off. It's just so wrong. But, you know, when you fall for stuff like that, you need to do a CSI on your character and your soul and your spirit and say, lord, what is. What is in me that allowed me to believe that? And, you know, there's a. There's some interesting proverbs. He who is impulsive exalts folly. Impulsive exalts folly. Folly is the verb of a fool in action. And I have been a fool in action. I've been impulsive plenty of times in my life, but I exalt folly. I lift up a fool in action. When I'm impulsive, I become a fool in action. The other one, Proverbs says the wise see trouble and seeks refuge. The simple continues on and is punished for it.

[George Kamel]

You just keep walking right off the cliff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Just keep moving. And I've done that. That I've done that. I like, I know better. I know this is bad. He even said it. He's like, I know down inside of me, this is. I know this. I know this is. And you walk right into it.

[George Kamel]

Anyway, that wisdom section of the brain just shuts down. You go, I can get rich quick, though.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's something about it. And I'm simple. Then that's another word for fool, right? And I've been that. I've been a fool in every one of these cases. And, man, when you start studying fool and proverbs, you start seeing yourself. It's painful. Painful. It's just like, I did that. Yeah, I did that one, too. And the number of times I've been a fool and survived. Because a biblical fool is not a greeting. It's like, not like, hey, fool. No, this is like an idiot. I mean, this is like, when I have done this, I was an idiot. You know, it's like, yeah, so, Greg, I can relate, man. I can relate. It's been. I haven't done that one in a long, long time. But I did that one once myself. Not 20 grand, but I mean, it's you know, you believe. Believe that there's an easy button, and they'll sell you a course on how to get the easy button. A get rich quick scheme is what we would call it. Now, looking back at it, right? And you go, the wise. The wise see that they seek refuge. They see danger and they seek refuge. The simple continues on and is punished for it.

[George Kamel]

A healthy skepticism. These Facebook ads, however, he fell for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Here's a healthy skepticism on anything on social media, period. Is it even real nowadays? Right? Is it? Is it AI? Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Oh, gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did he really say that? I saw one the other day that I was promoting car loans.

[George Kamel]

Someone asked me, they said, hey, I saw a video of you and Dave promoting these car loans. I said, nope, that was a scam from AI and the devil himself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, if it's completely perpendicular to everything you know about us, come on. I mean, how dumb are you to believe that? That. That's not AI, but, yeah, there it is. And it's just, God, we're there with you, brother. But I'm sorry you're having to clean up the mess. The good news is you probably never make that mistake again. That's a good news. Amy's with us. Amy's in Chicago. How are you, Amy?

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. I've been listening to the show for about a year, and I'm almost through with the last bit of our debt. We've paid off $500,000 in medical school debt.

Whoa.

Yes. We got radical. We sold our house and used part of the equity to downsize and the rest to pay off the medical school debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. So what's your household income now?

[Caller]

Well, my husband's a doctor, so we're doing pretty okay. We make about 25,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Good. I'm so glad. Congratulations.

[Caller]

Yeah, thank you, thank you. But I'm in a weird situation with a car loan. I'm in outside sales, and so I drive for work, and I'm putting on easily 2000 miles on my car a month, and I had to buy the car for the job, and now I'm underwater. So I'm underwater about $7,000. And I've just been told that my company is going to be going to Fleet Vehicles in the next year. We have basically a year to three years to start participating in the Fleet Vehicles. So they'll give me a car and they'll cover all the costs associated with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Love it.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that means between down the time you get the fleet vehicle, you got to get this one sold and cover the 7,000, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

When are you going to get the fleet vehicle? You know.

[Caller]

It'Ll probably be sometime next year that they'll open it up for us to start doing that. And at that point I'll have to, I'll have to have something to drive between now and then.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, just keep driving it. Unless.

[George Kamel]

What's it worth?

[Dave Ramsey]

Get it paid down. You've got great insights. Income.

[Caller]

Yeah, that was my question. Do I keep driving this and just pay it down until I'm no longer underwater or do I try and like sell it, get something cheap?

[George Kamel]

Well, if you pay it off, you're going to get all the equity when you sell it.

[Dave Ramsey]

The difference in now and six months doesn't matter. Okay, so just, just pay it off. Let's just get it paid off as soon as you can. And then you get her sitting there with a paid for car, it's got a lot of miles, and you sell it when you get the fleet vehicle.

[George Kamel]

I mean, you can knock it out before the end of the year, right?

[Caller]

I think so.

[George Kamel]

What's left?

[Caller]

It's 36, 000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you can knock it out because you know you got a 400, 000 income, don't you?

[George Kamel]

You make 25k a month if you throw 12.25k?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

You make how much?

[Caller]

I make 165 base, he makes 165 base and we both make commissions.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Wow. Good for y'. All.

[George Kamel]

So, yeah, this thing's knocked out by Christmas and you don't, you're not losing sleep over it. And then you'll sell it when you get the fleet vehicle and whatever it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Worth, that makes you debt free, right?

[Caller]

Yeah. Woo.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Let's knock it out and then and be done with it, man. Wow. Good for you. Good for you.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Casey's in Ohio. Hi Casey, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm doing great. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So me and my husband are on baby step two. I have a debt about 6,000 and including his, it will be a total of 78,419 is 68 cents, which I find very appalling. And we are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stop a second. I didn't understand what you said. You said he had 78,000 on what?

[Caller]

No. So I owe 6,000. And adding my husband debt, husband's debt, it's going to total up to 78,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so your husband has $72,000 in debt and you have 6,000.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And his 72,000 is on what?

[Caller]

It's mainly on student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your 6,000?

[Caller]

It's medical bill and credit card. I have 4,000 in medical bill.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long have you all been married?

[Caller]

A year, but we've been together for six years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what's your household income?

[Caller]

What I make as a nurse is about 90,000 and my husband has his own insurance company which is not doing well and he makes about 30. He did get a new job right now, which, which he get. He brings him 3,000 to 4,000 now monthly. Our main issue is mainly him disagreeing on me giving tights every month. And I do not like the fact that he has leased a Tesla and sold our car, which we only had two years and we could have paid it off. So I'm not sure how we can and you know, work together. Together to tackle this debt and have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. When, when y' all got married, did you not talk about like doing life together?

[Caller]

I didn't think so. Before getting married I was thinking about like, oh, my money's my money and your money's yours. But I am watching your show. I just, I come up on your show probably like a couple months ago and that's when I realized that yeah, yeah.

[George Kamel]

So you want to get out of debt and he doesn't really care. What's the status now?

[Caller]

Well, he does care, but he doesn't agree with the baby steps. He wants, I don't know, he doesn't want to get of his credit card. He thinks we need credit to get approved to buy a house, to get a car and things like that. And in one of your videos we're 33.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, you sound like you're 20. 20?

[Caller]

I, I, yes, he sounds like he's 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's so immature.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so what's his plan to get out of this mess?

[Caller]

He just wants, he wants to pay off the smallest amount that doesn't have an interest. Yeah, I mean that does have an interest. He wants to start with that. But I know with the baby steps you have to start with the smallest amount first, which I've been doing, I've been doing that myself, but he hasn't. I'm sorry, I'm just so overwhelmed. I never been in this so much debt before. The most debt I've had was a 6,000 and yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So here's what you need to do, hun, okay. You need to sit down with him tonight and say, I'm so scared I can't breathe and you are killing me. So I'm gonna go see a marriage counselor because our marriage is in deep trouble, and I'd like for you to go with me. Okay. And you need to go see a marriage counselor. Okay? You don't need to be talking to two goobs on a podcast when your marriage is falling apart, all right? You got to sit down with somebody that can actually help you and him grow up and walk through the process of learning to respect each other, combine, communicate. But this guy does whatever he wants to do and then just comes home and tells you at least a Tesla. I mean, that's. A husband needs to be smacked. And so I can't help you with that because I can't reach him from here.

[George Kamel]

But it's clear he doesn't respect your opinions on money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And he's not communicating, and he doesn't make any money, which is kind of humorous.

[George Kamel]

You're making triple what he makes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then he. And then he got all these opinions. That's hilarious. Broke people with deep financial principles. And so. But yeah, it's. That all that comes out in marriage counseling. But you're terrified, and your husband's causing it. So that tells me that we have marriage counseling issues, and you need to sit down with somebody. I'm sorry you're going through this, kiddo. All right, Eric is next. Eric's in Houston. Hi, Eric. How are you? You.

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. How's it going, buddy?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, I just need some, you know, advice from uncle Dave. I'll call you, Michael, because I've been listening to you for a little while now. So I just need some advice. I'll give you the quickest, shortest story rundown I can. A year ago, I was facing some legal troubles. Had to go to court, stuff like that. I needed a lawyer. Lawyer. So I went to my uncle. He was doing a little bit well off financially. So I told him, if you can help me find a lawyer, you know. But he decided to take on everything himself. He paid for the lawyer with, you know, the lawyer want me to court. Fast track. A year up to today. You know, I've come to find out, you know, from the news and everything, that he gained all his. All his money from illegal immigrants looking and seeking, you know, legalization or green card stuff like that to be able to live here in the u. S. He was defrauding them, telling them that he, you know, he works for the law firm. He can help them expedite that situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your uncle was doing this? This?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe your uncle for the lawyer?

[Caller]

I. I owe him 10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Uhhuh. And what do you make?

[Caller]

Okay, but, but let me give you, Let me give you just a quick sidetrack to that. The money that he gave me, the money that he accumulated from all these people, it was about 1.4 million. FBI and everybody, they did. They did a joint task force investigation. And, and, and you know where I'm at now? I'm. I'm trying to figure out morally, you know, should I pay him back? I would like to try to help out somebody. You know, It's.

[George Kamel]

I mean, I don't know that you can have. They seized his bank accounts. I mean, I'm guessing he's going to jail for a long time.

[Caller]

Yeah, they seized his bank account. He. He bought.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have $10,000?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then it doesn't matter, does it?

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, I mean, but the thing about it. The thing about it, Dave, is that he's. He's been, he's been hounding me and he, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's been hounding you for money you don't have.

[Caller]

Exactly. And he's been throwing my name under the rug to my whole family, making me out to be this bad person.

[Dave Ramsey]

But maybe we don't have to worry about what he thinks because he's a scam artist. He's going to jail, okay?

[George Kamel]

We're not going to have some kind of moral.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nobody, Nobody's worried about his opinion of any. Anything. He's a criminal. He's a criminal.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

None of that, none of that matters. But, but what does matter is, is regardless of how horrible person he is or what he said or did, he loans you $10,000 and you owe him $10,000. So someday when you get some money and you get a job and all that, you probably ought to pay the man back what you owe him, regardless of morally. Regardless of what you. What he has done done. You know, that's up to you, but you can do that. But that's your only option, is either not pay him or pay him, but you don't have an option today at all because you don't have the money. So it's theory right now. He can call you, he can hound you, he can tell all the relatives that you're a bad guy while he's sitting in a jail cell because the FBI raided him. That's funny. He's telling people you're a bad guy. That's, that's, that's kind of humorous if you think about. About it. But yeah, I wouldn't worry about it, Eric. When you get some money together, then deal with the problem. And when you get some money together, you someday should pay the band back what you owe him, regardless of his character. Because you paying him back is not about his character, it's about yours. And so I want you to pay him. But not today. You don't have it.

[George Kamel]

It's living rent free in your head until you do pay him. I can tell it's weighing on you. You don't like what it's doing to your reputation.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not paying him because of anything he says or does. And I'm not paying him because your mama calls, because he called her. I'm not paying him for any of that. I'm just paying him because I owe him. It's that simple. Nothing more, nothing less. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you [e-mail] insurance. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studios. George Camel, Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host. Today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Brianna is with us in Maryland. Hi Brianna, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. I'm so glad to be here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's good to have you. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I recently signed up for the free version of the EveryDollar app. I did all of my budgeting. I'm still feeling underwater and I can't find the second job. But I'm calling because I want to find out if the 400% interest rate for the payday loan that I originally took out for 1,500 is considered actual debt. It's not on my credit report. I've already paid about 2,500 of it. And when I realized that, I kind of stopped answering their calls and ignoring them. So just not sure what to do.

[George Kamel]

Why are you ignoring them?

[Caller]

I really don't have the extra finance to pay them and I figured it wasn't showing up on my credit report so it wasn't necessarily hurting me. And I kind of felt like they already got their money because the loan was for 1.5 originally.

[George Kamel]

Well, it's debt. I mean, owing anyone anything for any reason is debt. And so whether it has shown up on your credit report or not isn't the issue.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've.

[George Kamel]

You've got clearly in a bad cycle. I mean, there's a lot of problems that got you into that payday loan. Payday lender. Right. What caused this?

[Caller]

Yeah, well, I do a lot of lending, I guess, to my family and I'm actually currently trying to get out of like our family savings club. Like, we all put in like 600amonth, and then when your month comes, like, you get the money. And then I recently got a car. It was 15,000, but I'm upside down. It's just $55,000 student loans. So I'm just trying to like, make it day by day. I have a clearer picture of my finances with the Every Dollar app. But I don't understand why it's so hard to find a second job right now.

[George Kamel]

What's your total debt?

[Caller]

I'll get 75,000.

[George Kamel]

And what are you making right now?

[Caller]

61,000 a year, about 3,800 net.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

And?

[George Kamel]

Well, your smallest debt is now. What is it? The payday loan?

[Caller]

No, a $900 buy now, pay later type thing.

[George Kamel]

What do we use that for?

[Caller]

I got a tv.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long ago was that?

[Caller]

It was about two months ago and I was paying the minimum.

[Dave Ramsey]

When did you start the Every Dollar app?

[Caller]

I only started a few weeks ago. I just started listening.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. All right. Have you stopped your 401k?

[Caller]

I did. I did stop that. It was only $900 in there anyway.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're going to stop the family thing today? Just call the family and say I'm out.

[Caller]

They're not going to take that well, but I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tough. I'm broke.

[Caller]

Broke.

[Dave Ramsey]

I owe a payday lender 400% interest. I don't need a family savings club.

[George Kamel]

You're taking out a 400% interest loan to put into the family savings club. Do you understand how crazy that is?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that stops today. Just, you know, sorry, guys. I'm sorry. I messed up my finances and it's going to take me a little while to get them straightened out. And I've got this payday lender. I've got to get off my back and I'm sorry. So, yeah, I can't put anything else in and I can't participate in something that involves money right now. So. Also, I'm not playing. I'm also not playing poker. With you next week. So, you know, it's like we don't have any money, so. And then I don't know why. What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm actually a secretary for the Defense counterintelligence department. So like I really can't have my finances out of order otherwise I lose my job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, your finances are out of order. If they did a security check on you, you're in trouble already. Yeah, you've really got to get this mess cleaned up or you will lose this job. You're right. Eventually the so yeah, I, you know, there's lots of things you can do part time. I mean you can clean houses, you can pet sit, you can do all kinds of stuff part time. And I would get with doing something starting yesterday, yesterday immediately. And six different things. Working my tail end off.

[George Kamel]

See if you can return that TV.

[Caller]

During a 90 day window.

[Dave Ramsey]

Secretary will work.

[George Kamel]

You don't have time to watch tv. You got nine side jobs you're about to have. And so just follow the debt snowball. It works. And get rid of this payday lender. I don't care what's on the credit report, you got to get this monkey off your back, otherwise it's going to be another fee, another rollover loan. And that's how people get stuck in these cycles.

[Dave Ramsey]

If it's several months, if it's been several months since you paid them, you may be able to call them and say settle it with a lump sum. But you'd have to have the lump sum say, look, I don't know what I owe you, but I've got a thousand dollars. If you'll take that as settlement in full, we'll close this out. But you need the thousand dollars in your hand to be able to have that discussion. And that is involving extra work and extra income. Anything you can do to create some extra income that's low, that's moral and legal, you need to start doing it yesterday. Lisa's in Georgia. Hi, Lisa. How are you? You?

[Caller]

I'm fine. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Question. I've been married for 42 years and then in the last few years my husband's been diagnosed with mild to moderate dementia. With that has come a lot of radical changes in his personality. As far as our finances, the latest is we have a second home we have for sale and now he wants to rent it out. And I'm at a point in our lives where I feel like we need to sell it, take the equity, invest it. That's our retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is he aware that he has dementia?

[Caller]

He's aware. But denial, strong denial.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then he's not aware. He doesn't believe. He doesn't believe.

[Caller]

He doesn't believe. He does not believe he has dementia. One of the things he wants to do in our discussions now with the sale of the house, he's decided that he wants to take 50% of the proceeds and spend any way he wants to.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the answer is no. Answer is no. You have dementia. And I'm not going to go along with anything you want to do.

[Caller]

No, that's the way I've been pushing back.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you have dementia. You are not of your right mind. And no, we are not going along with any plan you have. I'm here to take care of you. I have for 42 years. I'm going to stick with you in sickness and in health. And we're not doing anything you want to do with money. You have to dementia.

[Caller]

So how do I move forward to do I need to. To do a court order that he can't because everybody else thinks there's nothing wrong with him. I see.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everybody else. I thought you said the doctor diagnosed him.

[Caller]

That that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, then everybody else doesn't think that. Just the doctor.

[Caller]

Just the thought that. Yeah. It just. He thinks his.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's his friends and his friends think.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So do I need to do. Get an attorney and do a court order so that he can't make these decisions because right now we're 50. 50 on account. He can do whatever he wants. I don't know how to move forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I think you have him declared incompetent in court.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And your physician's gonna have to go along with that because he's not of right mind. We have to protect him from him. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

I don't know that he'd sign a power of attorney for you to have financial control.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he's not gonna do that. Because he doesn't think he's got dementia.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Kamel]

So he's gonna need to be forced into it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, in order to take care of him. He's not of his right mind. That's sad. I'm so sorry. That. Because, you know, when people get early onset, they. They generally turn either really mean or really nice. And it sounds like he's gone the mean one. So. Wow. I'm sorry. And it. So it's gonna be really compelling, combative. But yeah, what his friends think doesn't matter. I mean, that's irrelevant. What his mama thinks doesn't matter. I mean, what the, what the doctor says, he's got this and you've observed the pattern, then your job as his spouse is to take care of him in spite of him. And yeah, that's a court order. Foreign.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Ed is in Kentucky. Hi, Ed, how are you?

[Caller]

I am doing well. How about your spouse?

[Dave Ramsey]

Just the same. Sir. Sir. What's up?

[Caller]

All right. Well, thank you all so much. So my wife and I were really excited. We bought our house back in 08 and we have been throwing a lot of money to get it paid off and we are on track to have our house paid off by Thanksgiving of this year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go. Good for you.

[Caller]

Thank you. Took a lot of hard work. But so, you know, we're really excited about what's coming up next. But also that's a lot of unknown for us. And so, you know, we keep investing in our 401k. I've actually upped my 401k contribution rate and she's going to be doing the same. But just wanted to kind of at least get an idea of what are some things that suggestions that you all would have for us post having the house paid off because after that we will have no other debts.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Way to go. Well, baby step seven, we just say build wealth and give. And so there's three buckets. And you need to be very intentional with the money that you will have. And you're going to have a lot of it now because no payments. Right. And go, you know, there's three things we can do. We can have fun and enjoy the money and you need to do some of that. You can invest some and you need to do some of that. And you can be outrageously generous and you need to do some of that. And so, you know, you're still going to look at the pile of money coming in every month and you're still going to assign it to something that falls in one of those three buckets and you need to have a pretty good rhythm where you're touching those buckets. At least annually, but hopefully most monthly.

[Caller]

Yeah, definitely. And, you know, definitely, you know, the fun part and invest part and the generous part. Yeah, that totally makes sense. And that's something that we really want to do. And we just want to also make sure by the time we retire that we can retire and have some peace of mind. And so how old are you? I'm 42.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much is in your 401k now retirement account?

[Caller]

Right. Well, in my retirement account, I currently are. I'm currently at 340,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

You and your wife?

[Caller]

And my wife, she actually has a little bit more. She's actually at around 500,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. She got 850,000 in retirement right now. What's the house worth?

[Caller]

The house is worth 175,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you're millionaires.

[Caller]

Cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

40S. That's pretty neat. Yeah. Yeah. The 800,000 if you don't touch it, you know, you said you're 40. What?

[Caller]

I'm 42.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're 42. If it's invested in good mutual funds, when you're 49, it'll be 1.6, and when you're 56, it'll be 3.2. And when you're 60. 60, 63, it's going to be 6.4. You're okay. You did it.

[George Kamel]

You're real far ahead on retirement, so I wouldn't worry. You keep investing. Don't, you know, let the foot off the gas there. But also figure out, hey, do we want to upgrade in house? Could we pay cash for a different house, you know, five years from now?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Start setting some goals in your spending, saving, and giving goal areas at least once a year and then check in and do the monthly budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can have been so focused on this house. There's some stuff you need to do in the fun category. You need to upgrade her car. You need to go on a trip. You've been telling her for 20 years you were going to do. I don't know what it is, but there's some stuff y' all need to do.

[George Kamel]

Renovate the kitchen.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, something like. There's some things like that you need to allocate some money to. And yeah, while you're doing some investing and while you're doing some increased and intentional generosity and yeah, you just keep all of those things moving and, you know, make. Just make lists of things we want to do and let's force rank them. What do we want to do first, what do we want to do second, what do we want to do third? And then you start, you fund that with what used to be a house payment and you're, you're going to be in great shape, man. I mean you're really doing beautiful. I'm proud of you. Pretty stinking incredible. Country's with us in Texas. Hi, country, how are you.

[Caller]

Sir? I am doing good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can you we help?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. So I'm currently joining the United States Army Special Forces and if I pass, I will get a $34,000 sign on bonus. I'm used to being broke, so I'm not sure exactly what to do with that. But there's a motorcycle that I want to get that is about $20,000. What do you think I should do with that bonus?

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

Sure, I'm 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you for serving your country. We appreciate, appreciate you.

[Caller]

Yes, I thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I know number one, if you invest in things that go down in value, you're going to be broke your whole life.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Motorcycles go down in value. I don't mind you getting a bike, but you don't need a $20,000 bike. What are they paying, what are they going to be paying you? Not counting the signing bonus, it's going.

[Caller]

To be about 2500amonth. But of course I will be living on base so I don't have to pay for living expenses.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. Well, you need to be very, very careful with what happens to that 2500amonth and you need to be very careful with what happens to 34,000. I would spend some of it on fun, but I wouldn't spend 2/3 of it on fun.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So no, I wouldn't buy a $20,000 bike. You make. You're 20 years old, you make 2500 dollars a month. You're brand new in the military. But if you want to get a $5,000 bike for fun, that probably okay, you know. Do you have a car?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Yes. Yes, sir, I have a one Silverado.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it paid for?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Also, I do have a loan that I'm currently. It's a $4000 loan. I've already paid about 1400 of it off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay.

[Caller]

Take that bonus.

[Dave Ramsey]

Definitely, definitely. Wrap that up to knock it, knock that out. Set you some money aside as an emergency fund. Get you a toy, but a cheaper one. Okay. And, and then let's start talking about investing and doing grown up stuff with some of this money. A lot of the guys you're running around with aren't going to be doing that.

[Caller]

Good. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Because we've worked with the military for 30 years and when you step off the base and most of the bases in the US down each side of the road for the next two and a half miles is stupid.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Every stupid thing a 20 year old could possibly do is on each side of the road all the way down through, through there. And it's like they set it up to suck all the money out of you guys. It's a shame, but it is. It's like stupid on parade right outside the base gates everywhere you go. And you know, you can really screw up here, man. So be a, be a, be a grown up and not a little kid with the way you're looking at this stuff. And thank you for asking the question. It's a good wise question.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. I mean this 34 grand is going to disappear quick in a good way if you do the right things with it. You pay off this loan, that's 2,500 bucks. Maybe put 20 grand aside in your savings and spend 5 grand on a bike and fund a Roth IRA with the rest of it. It's gone. And then you can't do something stupid with it because it's gone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, you're gonna be in, you're gonna be able to do a lot of fun stuff with this over time. But yeah, use this to set yourself.

[George Kamel]

Up with a great foundation. As a 20 year old man, I wish I was in that shape at 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

And by the way, the $5,000 bike is probably a four year old version of your 20. That's how much it's going to go down in value. So maybe get on Facebook. Maybe a five year.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, you'll find a 24 year old who made that decision at 20 who's now trying to sell it. There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's probably in the military. Yeah, that could easily be.

[George Kamel]

And you jump on Facebook, all those people are probably in the military. So that's how to find the dealer right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that could easily happen. No doubt about it. Well, everybody needs insurance. But it can be hard trying to figure out and find the pros who aren't just looking to make a buck. And let's get an agent who actually knows their stuff. With a Ramsey trusted insurance pro, you never have to deal with a sleazy business or slimy salesperson because they're all interviewed. Our Ramsey trusted people are vetted, they're coached to make sure they are market experts. And we don't deal with anyone who's going to slam you. It's pretty simple. They got your best interest at heart. Go to ramseysolutions.com coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and to connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. Or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or on podcast. By the way folks, if you are listening or watching the show, please click the Follow button, the share button. Share it with somebody, let somebody know here. And of course you can click the subscribe button. All of those things matter. And leaving that nice five star review with glowing comments about George is always helpful.

[George Kamel]

And Dave's good looks, that helps too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what people get. I didn't ask them to lie. I just asked him to say good things. That's all. Just saying good things, that's all. Dave has a face for radio, but we love listening to it. It's all good. We can do that. I can handle that.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

We've all done dumb things with money. I've done them with zeros on the end. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it. You got to have a plan. You got to be intentional. And you need to get a budget. You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where to it went. Our budgeting app, EveryDollar, helps you do just that. It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan. For every dollar you've got coming in and going out, now's the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan. Don't let that happen. You're done making that mistake. Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play Play today. Leonel is with us on the stage right here. The debt free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Where do you live?

[Debt Free Screamer]

I live in Menifee, California.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Welcome to Nashville. And you're here to do a debt free scream. How much have you paid off?

[Debt Free Screamer]

$75,117.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. And how long did that take you, sir?

[Debt Free Screamer]

20 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you and your range of income during that time years.

[Debt Free Screamer]

$78,000 including my bonus for my base pay and around 96, nine months after that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. What do you do for a living?

[Debt Free Screamer]

I'm a cpa.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Wow. Very cool. How old are you?

[Debt Free Screamer]

25.

[Dave Ramsey]

What made you get in gear and say I'm going to get rid of 75,000.

[Debt Free Screamer]

Twenty months ago, I was actually given a book called Foundations and Personal Finance. It was gifted to me my last year of my mba, and I started seeing, wow, that's a lot of debt. That was more than I was expecting because I went straight in, not realizing how much I borrowed, and I saw it was in a big hole. So you said, if I follow your plan, be very aggressive towards the debt, I could pay it off within about, I believe you said, a range of 20 to 24 months. So I said, you know what? I'll do it. I'm in a bad hole. I'll do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

He took Dave up on the challenge.

[Dave Ramsey]

I did.

[George Kamel]

And he was right. Yeah, he was per usual with Dave. I love that man. Congrats. So this was our curriculum, the kind of the workbook for the curriculum, Foundations and Personal finance.

[Debt Free Screamer]

It was a green book. It was a thin little green book.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, Very cool.

[Debt Free Screamer]

Went through that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. And the 75,000 was student loan debt.

[Debt Free Screamer]

All student loans. Couldn't banker up on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good for you.

[George Kamel]

Did you attempt to. You sound like you're like, I couldn't.

[Debt Free Screamer]

Well, I learned in my CPA exams that student loans, you can't bankrupt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

So you're like, well, I guess I gotta claw this out myself. I took it out. I signed the dotted line. Let's knock this out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

What did you learn during the 20 months while you're working on this?

[Debt Free Screamer]

It's more behavioral than it is actually mathematical. Because I would take a look at what you would talk about, and, you know, I'm a cpa, so I would just check everything you say. And I say, is this guy really right? And he saw it. You said, through the snow ball method. It's only around, you know, at most two months slower. And when I looked at the avalanche method, it came around that much for me. So I'm like, wow, this guy actually knows what he's talking about. So I followed it, and it worked really, really well, and it made sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. How's it feel to be free?

[Debt Free Screamer]

You know what? I have a lot of peace, actually. It's pretty great because now I feel I can actually take risks I couldn't take take before.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like what?

[Debt Free Screamer]

Well, I was really taking a look at my course study, work that I can be really aggressive in my investing now, so I can actually grow my wealth as you know, within reason to actually grow my wealth more. I was learning through education, where they said the three biggest risks in stocks was overpaying, having to sell before you have to and bankruptcy. And by being debt free, I'm able to avoid overpaying by, you know, I can invest mutual funds, you know, using dollar cost average or I could devaluation with my, my background. Not having to sell when I before I want to is being debt free. That's the only thing I would really.

[George Kamel]

You've reduced your risk and therefore you're less desperate to go do something stupid and miss out on the market returns. You're staying invested consistently.

[Debt Free Screamer]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, man. So if somebody's listening and they start said, okay, guy paid off 75,000 bucks in 20 months. How did he do that? What would you tell him the key is to getting out of debt.

[Debt Free Screamer]

Well, for me, I was a college student, so I delayed my life heavily. I moved back home with my parents. I didn't finance a car. I didn't go and get a mortgage for a home. I lived humbly with my parents and then I just saved as much as I could. My goal was to only live on about 25% of my tickets take home pay, which I achieved. And I put 75k towards my not 75k, 75% of my take home pay towards my loans. And then I had people who keep me accountable, such as my brother and my, my parents.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

And living on less than you make. Oh, that was the key is just be super disciplined about that and you'll be shocked at how quickly you can knock out the debt.

[Debt Free Screamer]

Absolutely.

[George Kamel]

Which makes the avalanche method obsolete because of how fast you're knocking this out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And even as a math nerd, you're like, yeah, you could, you might. But the people who actually become debt free, it's behavior.

[Debt Free Screamer]

It's behavior.

[George Kamel]

Way to go, man. That's big. We're proud of you. You get the rest of your life now to build wealth, to give, to enjoy. So you went like one step backward going, well, I'm missing out right now. There's probably some fomo. But then you're catapulting forward exponentially.

[Debt Free Screamer]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

While your friends are going, dude, how are you investing that much? I don't have debt. That's incredible.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Well, good for you. Good for you, man. That's awesome. I'm proud of you. Very cool. Who was cheering you on as you went?

[Debt Free Screamer]

Oh, definitely my brother, my father and my mother. And I could tell that I made them really proud because I did something that they haven't done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Changing family.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now that you're out debt, you can get out of their basement. So. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Have you Moved out yet?

[Debt Free Screamer]

No, actually I'm glad I paid off my debt so quickly because I got laid off.

[Caller]

Off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa.

[Debt Free Screamer]

Yeah. So one month after paying off my debt, being aggressive, they said, yep. We don't see you as being meeting our standards or valuable. We gotta let you go. We're gonna go with other people. But from there I was just glad I was really aggressive and.

[George Kamel]

And you're working again now.

[Debt Free Screamer]

It's only been about a month or so.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Debt Free Screamer]

So just been applying, applying aggressively. And I'm not too worried because my credentials and background, I'm willing to move.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have to. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Sharp guy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you, man. Well done. Proud of you. Proud of you. And you brought your brother to stand with you while you do the debt free screen. Bring him up and introduce him. Hi.

[Debt Free Screamer]

This is my brother Danilo. He's following my footsteps. He's doing everything I'm doing, but better.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. Way to go, Danilo. Very cool. Very cool. All right, lionel from California. 75,000 paid off in 20 months, making 78 to 96. Count it down, let's hear a debt free scream.

[Debt Free Screamer]

Three, two, one.

[Caller]

I'm debt free.

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. There we go.

[George Kamel]

Oh, my goodness. That was incredible. He gave it his all on that one.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fun.

[George Kamel]

Left it all on the dance floor, as they say. I wish I had that energy. You know, I miss the 25 year old energy. I'd probably hurt my back doing that now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, I mean, you're staying up all night with newborns.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Different face effects affects. It affects your energy level. George. I'm just saying. What a great story. Well done, sir. Well done. Very, very proud of you. Good work. Jasmine's in Texas. Hi, Jasmine, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. I'm doing fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller]

So. So my husband and I are on Baby Step two. We're kind of newer to the Ramsey teaching method. And I was actually recently laid off as of yesterday.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa.

[Caller]

It was. Yeah, it was a little bit of a shock to us.

[Dave Ramsey]

You didn't know? You didn't have any idea it was coming?

[Caller]

We had some differences and my boss said that, that they. I wasn't meeting the expectations that the company was wanting. So I thought I was fixing a lot of those issues. And then yesterday they asked me for another meeting after having a meeting last week. And then they said that we're just going to have to let you go. So I thought that I had a little bit more time to kind of save up and it turns out I just had yesterday.

[Dave Ramsey]

What? What did you make?

[Caller]

I made 45,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing what?

[Caller]

I was an admin assistant for one of the businesses local into the town that we live in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. All right. And are they giving you severance package?

[Caller]

They are not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Okay. How long did you work there?

[Caller]

About a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, cool. All right. And what does your husband make?

[Caller]

He makes 65,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you used to have a 110 income. Now you have a 65 income? For this moment, yes. Okay, well, here's what we have found. And we faced your situation many, many, many times over 30 years. The first thing is it's really emotional and you're semi kind of angry and scared aired at the same time. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The second thing is, if you push through that and go out there right now and go get another job fast, you'll probably get a better job than you had, paying more than you had. If you wallow in this for about six weeks, you're going to end up probably getting a worse job than you had. So you throw the shoulders back and you brush your teeth and you go to work again fast. Hang on. We're going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, the Proximity Principle, which will help you get that next job. Quick, quick. You're better than they said you are, girl. Go get you something better. Sam, Our scripture of the day, Philippians 2, 14 and 15. Do everything without grumbling or arguing so that you may become blameless and pure children of God, without fault, in a warped and crooked generation. Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky. Maya Angelou said, if you're always trying to be normal, you will never know how amazing you can be. Dave's in Maryland. Hi, Dave. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. How are you, sir?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

I. Well, first and foremost, I want to thank you for everything that you've taught me over the years. You changed, helped me change my life financially and never thought that I would be in the position that I am today with money. And it's because of everything I've learned from you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Well, good for you, man. I'm proud of you.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's awesome. So I just. I've been struggling for a while now in my current relationship with my girlfriend. I'm just trying to figure out whether I should stay with her or not. And a lot, most of it has to do with our differences financially.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you guys?

[Caller]

So I'm 48 and she's 44. We've been dating for about five years and it's kind of at the point to where this is either going to be it or it isn't, you know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's a long time to paint or get off the ladder. Right? Huh.

[George Kamel]

So what's the difference in financial values here?

[Caller]

Well, I'm a small business owner and I think I do pretty well. And she's, I don't know, I'm more goal oriented, money driven, success driven than she is. And she really doesn't have a whole lot financially or like possession wise and things like that. And sometimes I just feel like I would rather date someone that has a solid career path, you know, makes a good, good salary, someone that's more focused on their career and money. But on the other hand, we get along. I mean, she is just, she's an amazing woman. She's the best girl that I've ever dated in my life.

[George Kamel]

So are you wanting someone who has the same level of drive you do?

[Caller]

Well, maybe not drive, but just someone that's, that's closer to me financially, you know.

[George Kamel]

So you think there's a disparity between what, how hard you've worked to build your wealth and success and, and how little she cares to do that for herself?

[Caller]

Yeah, something like that. And I guess it's also, you know, it's, I'm afraid, not afraid, but just being the breadwinner and I don't know, it's, it's a little difficult to explain, but I just, I wish that she had more money and she had a better job, you know, that's, that's pretty much she making, she makes about 60 a year.

[George Kamel]

That's solid income.

[Caller]

And I'm. Well, see that's the thing because if we combined our finances, I think we would do okay. I make between 80 and 90 a year and she makes about 60. So we would bring in around 140 combined, you know, and we've been talking about moving in together and things like that. But you know, money thing just kind of is what's been holding me back.

[George Kamel]

I don't see any crazy red flags so far. Is she in crippling debt that she refuses to get out of? She has spending problems?

[Caller]

No, she, no, she's very frugal. She's a single mom. She raised her son pretty much on her own with help of from her family. But she's a single mom, she's very frugal, she's independent, she has no debt. I mean she might have like a one or two thousand dollar Credit card. She rents her house and her car's paid for for.

[George Kamel]

I mean you guys are going to build wealth together and you'll accumulate more assets and you'll have a paid for house together. And so I wouldn't judge this just based off of, well, she's not coming to the table with enough assets for me to move forward. You know, I would need a little more ammo than that to end this relationship. And it's not like you make 400,000 and she makes 30. And so the disparity is not as big as I think you think it is. It feels more emotional. Emotional that you're worried you'll resent her and not respect her going down the line?

[Caller]

Yeah, something like that. And, and also I struggle a little bit because I grew up in poverty, you know, so I've had this inborn fear of poverty my entire life and that's why I saved so much. And I guess sometimes I think, what if the bottom fell out of my business and I it and I lost my money? Could I count on her to support us? I know that doesn't really make sense, but sometimes that's how I think, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I'm not hearing any huge fireworks going off in terms of something some kind of bad warning here. This sounds like a lady who's, who's rolled up her sleeves, raised a kid by herself and has pulled off life pretty well. You know, maybe she's not quite kept up with you, but it's not like you make a million dollars a year and she makes 10,000 or something. I mean this is not some huge disparity. It's fairly minor. I guess her older. But here's the big question is not how much money she has or how much money she makes. That part that shouldn't even really be in the discussion. What should be in the discussion is do you respect her careful character, her work ethic, do you respect her intellect and what she can add to the equation? And if you don't respect someone, then it's very difficult to love them and they go together. And so long term, real lengthy 25, 35 year marriage, 50 year marriage, love type stuff. Okay. If you think she's deficit the whole time, that's probably not going to end up being there. And, and so, but it's not based on her income and it's not based on that. Actually the things you, her story that you described to me, I think she's pretty incredible. So. But you know, you gotta, you gotta think that it's not me I'm not marrying her. So I got pretty incredible already. I've already got that covered about 44 years ago. So. But yeah, that's what I'd be looking at. It sounds, you know, probably a good opportunity for some good pre marriage counsel counseling to sit down with a good marriage counselor and get this stuff out on the table and put those fears out there, kind of comb through it a little bit, that kind of thing. And you know the other thing that might help too, you kind of brought up your poverty past. Let me send you a copy of Rachel Cruz's book Know yourself Know your Money. It talks about your family of origin and how it affects your view on money, her family of origin, how it affects her view on money, even her story and it affects her view on money and how, how she gets got to where she is and you guys get, you know, give you some jumping off points to understand each other a little bit better before you make the final decision on marriage or on breakup, either one. And you know, that's, that's definitely where I would go with that. So hey, thanks for the call. We appreciate you joining us. Open phones here at Triple 882-55-5225. So George, one of the big things we get, and I think that Know Yourself Know youw Money book is helpful for that is with couples that are dating trying to figure out if they're a match. And money is a good thing for that. Not because money's important, but because money reveals a lot about your character. It reveals a lot about your dreams, it reveals a lot about your fears. It reveals a lot. Jesus said you treasures where your heart. And so how you handle money, the way you look at money, what you're trying to get from money all say a lot about you. And so it's a great way to get to know someone in a relationship like that is to study their money habits because as Dr. John Deloney says, behavior is a language. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And if the values are there, then you can survive it. You'll have a nerd and a free spirit, a spender and a saver. But if the values are there at a foothold and foundation, you can survive the relationship. And so that's an important thing to look into is hey, do I value living a debt free life? If not, you're probably going to be broke for a long time.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, that's a good point. Looking back on it, we didn't mean to do this. We weren't sophisticated enough to do it when we were dating and getting married. But Sharon and I accidentally got married with having two extremely different families. But both families put a heavy emphasis on hard work and work ethic. Work ethic.

[George Kamel]

Common sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so neither Sharon nor I have much use for somebody that won't work. And so. But. And, you know, consequently, we team up on that a lot. Like she says, you need to go.

[George Kamel]

To work, and Dave does it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.