Debt Steals Your Freedom - Fight For Financial Peace

Summary

The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Debt Steals Your Freedom – Fight For Financial Peace
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: George Kamel
Date: December 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this powerful episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey and co-host George Kamel tackle a series of candid and complex listener questions, all centered around the foundational belief that debt steals freedom and financial peace is worth fighting for. Through real-life stories and practical advice, Dave and George dive deep into the emotional, relational, and mathematical aspects of dealing with debt, enabling listeners to not just manage their money, but to change their lives and family trees.

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Key Discussion Points & Caller Questions

1. Dealing with Leases and Lingering Exes

• [00:41–08:17]
  Caller: Nicole from San Francisco
  Nicole, engaged and planning to move in with her fiancé, is troubled that his ex-wife's name remains on the lease of his rental home. Despite court orders and persistent efforts, property management is unresponsive, and the ex refuses to cooperate.

  Key Points & Advice:

  • Her name on the lease is a liability, not a right to the home. The landlord can remove her from the lease without her permission.
  • Dave admonishes Nicole’s fiancé for not handling this sooner and advises Nicole to demand action: “I want my wife to be on our lease, not my ex... You either fix it or I'm moving.” (Dave, 04:01)
  • Don’t let saving money (cheaper rent) trump peace and clarity in your new marriage.

  Memorable Quote:

  "Don't sign up for lack of freedom and drama and call that a good deal. That's not a good deal." – Dave Ramsey (08:04)

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2. Drowning in Debt and Reluctance to Make Sacrifices

• [10:54–16:26]
  Caller: Rachel from Columbia, SC
  Rachel, overwhelmed by $120,000 in non-mortgage debt, family medical issues, and a recent job/career shift, wonders how to begin the “baby steps.”

  Key Points & Advice:

  • Getting caught up on bills precedes financial baby steps.
  • Much of the family’s struggle is due to overspending, not just a small reduction in pay.
  • Dave firmly prescribes radical action: “Sell the truck, sell the Jeep, sell the boat... Instead of boating, you're calling me, talking about you're so stressed out you can't breathe, and you're $120,000 in debt. You can't afford a boat, you're broke. Go to the park and throw a Frisbee.” (Dave, 14:45)
  • The path to change requires pain and responsibility—the time for comfort and rationalizations has passed.

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3. Fear of Lowering Emergency Fund During Debt Payoff

• [16:43–19:55]
  Caller: Kevin from New York
  Kevin is afraid to reduce his emergency fund to $1,000 as per the Baby Steps, fearing “Murphy's Law" (something bad will happen).

  Key Points & Advice:

  • Temporarily reducing savings is about maximizing debt payoff speed, not long-term minimalism.
  • Given his $8,600 monthly income and $25K debt, he could be debt-free in 3 months by committing extra savings.
  • “Your fear is justified, but it’s not justified enough to stay in debt.” (Dave, 19:06)

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4. Family Tenants and Enabling Late Rent

• [22:39–31:07]
  Caller: Courtney from Los Angeles
  She rented her property to her parents, who are consistently late on rent despite exhaustive efforts to help them learn financial responsibility.

  Key Points & Advice:

  • Courtney’s options: Pay off the house, surrender to sporadic payments, and let them live there stress-free, or sell the house and “cut them loose.”
  • “The secret to happiness is low expectations.” (Dave, 26:05)
  • “You would not be doing something immoral... You gave 11 years worth of enabling a shot here, and it didn’t work.” – Dave Ramsey (28:52)
  • Key lesson: You cannot change people who don’t want to change. Stop enabling and set boundaries.

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5. Should I Pay Off My Low Interest Mortgage?

• [33:23–36:40]
  Caller: Craig from New York
  A 70-year-old high net worth caller wonders why he should pay off a $320,000 mortgage at 2.75%, when his investments earn more.

  Key Points & Advice:

  • Dave argues for the intangible benefit: “You'll sleep better. Peace is going to run down your spine when you pay this off.” (Dave, 34:38)
  • Debt, regardless of interest rate, adds risk and complexity, outstripping any minor mathematical gains.
  • “If you want to keep your mortgage like it’s a pet, that’s fine. But some people keep pet snakes – I don’t.” (Dave, 35:33)

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6. Large Student Loan Debt, Low Income – What Now?

• [37:23–41:06]
  Caller: Carolina from Las Vegas
  With $90,000 in student debt, a family of three, and low income, Carolina seeks advice on balancing debt payoff and saving for her daughter’s college.

  Key Points & Advice:

  • Focus on completing education and increasing income before aggressive debt repayment or college savings.
  • No investing or saving for child’s college until the household is stabilized and out of debt.
  • Both spouses should work extra jobs as able.

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7. Serial Entrepreneurship Confusion and the Passive Income Trap

• [54:29–63:18]
  Caller: Angel from San Francisco
  Angel, a hardworking owner-operator of a trucking business, seeks ways to create passive income as he's exhausted by business cycles and failed ventures.

  Key Points & Advice:

  • Small business typically yields the most return for effort—serial entrepreneurship without focus leads to failure.
  • Invest steadily in mutual funds and (when well-capitalized and debt-free) real estate.
  • Avoid get-rich-quick, and beware of online scams claiming Ramsey endorsement.
  • “Jack of all trades, master of none. Don't lose your focus.” (Dave, 63:23)

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8. Inspiring Debt-Free Calls and Life Stories

Alex and Amanda’s Debt-Free Story

[65:52–74:39]

• $100,000 paid off in 5 years (entire mortgage), income grew from $80K–$130K.
• Three children through embryo adoption, moved from NJ to PA to lower living costs.
• “You can do anything if you work together and communicate.” – Alex (70:11)
• Key motivators: family support, visual progress charts, and living intentionally.

Christopher’s Debt-Free Story

[107:16–116:23]

• $104,500 (house) paid off in just over 4 years, income grew from $30K to $70K.
• Used Smart Dollar benefit through his government employer.
• Example of living simply, buying a modest home, and building wealth at a young age.
• “People think that it’s unaffordable, but it really is not. You have to have a goal in mind.” – Christopher (111:52)

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9. Elderly Remarriage, Family Inheritance, and Prenups

• [96:45–106:01]
  Caller: Jack, 76, Kansas City
  Widower Jack is preparing to remarry, but his adult children are insisting on prenups and background checks for his new fiancée.

  Key Points & Advice:

  • Dave recommends transparency (full financial disclosures), mutual background checks, and a prenup for existing assets to preserve clarity and family peace.
  • “Do a prenup on existing assets... Not for your children's sake, but for your own.” – Dave (101:27)
  • Set clear boundaries with family; don't let their greed drive your decisions.

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10. Miscellaneous Lightning-Round Advice

• High-mileage truck with a loan? Pay it off, drive it into the ground, avoid new debt. (120:12–123:52)
• Saving for daughter's college with child support? Move funds to a 529 plan for tax-free growth, but don't moralize about using child support for her expenses. (124:04–127:02)
• Job loss just before the holidays? Set aside emotions and proactively use your network, update your resume, and don't panic—focus on the next opportunity.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Don’t sign up for lack of freedom and drama and call that a good deal. That’s not a good deal.”
  — Dave Ramsey ([08:04])

• “Sell the truck, sell the Jeep, sell the boat... You can’t afford a boat, you’re broke. Go to the park and throw a Frisbee.”
  — Dave Ramsey ([14:45])

• Family Enabling:

  “If they wanted to, they would. If they wanted to pay on time, they would. If they wanted to become debt free, they would. And so you just can’t change people.” – George Kamel ([29:28])

• Mortgage as a Pet Snake:

  “If you want to keep your mortgage like it’s a pet, that’s fine. But some people keep pet snakes – I don’t.” – Dave Ramsey ([35:33])

• On Fear:

  “Your fear is justified, but it’s not justified enough to stay in debt.” – Dave Ramsey ([19:06])

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Debt-Free Screams – The Emotional Core

• Alex & Amanda:
  “3, 2, 1…WE’RE DEBT FREE!” ([73:09])
• Christopher:
  “Three, two, one. I'm debt free!” ([116:14])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:41] Lease drama and ex-spouse on housing lease
• [10:54] Overwhelmed by debt—selling assets or not?
• [16:43] Emergency fund fear and rational debt payoff speed
• [22:39] Enabling family and overdue rent
• [33:23] Debate over paying off a low-interest mortgage
• [37:23] Young couple balancing school, debt, and hope
• [54:29] Entrepreneur confusion – passive income and business fatigue
• [65:52] Alex & Amanda’s mortgage-free celebration
• [107:16] Christopher, age 30, owns his paid-off home
• [96:45] Elderly remarriage, kids, and issues of trust, assets, and prenups

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Show Closing Message

Dave’s Parting Words:
“There’s ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that’s to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.”
([127:35])

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Takeaways

• Debt is about more than numbers; it’s about freedom, dignity, and peace of mind.
• The “normal” American financial path leads to stress. To achieve different results, you must act differently—be “weird.”
• Sacrifice and intentionality pay off—move to a cheaper area, sell stuff you can’t afford, and set boundaries with people, even family.
• The path to wealth is accessible, but it demands responsibility, honesty (with yourself and others), and a willingness to give up short-term comfort for long-term peace and options.

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Download the EveryDollar app, follow Ramsey’s steps, and start rewriting your family’s financial story today.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, number one best selling author, Ramsey personality and co host of Smart Money Happy Hour is my, my co host today. Open phones at 888, 825-5225. Nicole is in San Francisco. Hi Nicole, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, good morning. Merry Christmas.

[Dave Ramsey]

Merry Christmas to you. What's up?

[Caller]

Yes, I just have a question, a rental question. My, my fiance and I have been together almost three years and we're getting married at the end of December. We're very excited and after the, the wedding we're planning on moving in together. Obviously the home that he's living in is a home in with his ex. So his name, his ex's name I just found out recently is still on the lease. Again, it is a rental. He's tried multiple times to get her to take her name off. He even had a court order via some of their custody hearings that the judge said she had to take her name off. She still refuses to do so. His property management company isn't being responsive. I'm a realtor and I spoke with our property management division and they said that basically we have three options. One, the property management company can just out of the goodness of their heart, take her name off and redo the lease with just his and my name to get her to sign the paperwork, which he's been trying to do unsuccessfully. Or three, terminate the lease, likely forfeit the deposit because her name would be on the check and then move out and move back in. The dilemma that I have right now is that I'm not, it feels really, really gross to me to move in, start a marriage and move into a home with this ex's name on it. Mind you, they also have a child together. There's a lot of really gross custody situation going on. So it's not just an ex that we never hear from or speak to. It's, you know, an ongoing problem in our lives. And I just, I don't know if it's worth, am I being dramatic in like the potential issues financially and like losing deposit.

[Dave Ramsey]

When, when is the lease up?

[Caller]

Well, it was up and he's, he's continued to live in the home, so they broke up.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I mean when is the current, when does the current lease expire?

[Caller]

It, it's a month to month now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. So you can give 30 days notice and move out.

[Caller]

We could.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then that's all. I have to find a new place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then you just find a new place. That's easy. Okay, now that. However, let's. Let's back up a second. She does not have a say in this, okay? Her name being on the lease is making her obligated for the payment on the lease. It doesn't give her any rights to possession.

Okay? It just. It's just like if someone co. Signs a lease for you to move in, like your dad signed for you to move in or something, it doesn't give him rights to live there. It just says that he's also liable. And so the property management company can simply redraft the lease and take her name off of it. They don't have to have her permission to do that. They can just take her off.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And put you on. And so, you know what I would do is just call the property management company and I don't know why your fiance's not handled this. This is really bizarre to me. This is on him, okay? And you're right, this is gross and it should have been dealt with a long time. Three weeks before you get married. Geez, Call me up a week for. We're going down the aisle next week and I'm not gonna, you know. Well, yeah, so. But anyway, so if it's me, I'm calling the property management company. I'm your fiance. And I'm saying, look, I want my wife to be on our lease, not my ex. And so we are going to give you two options. One is you redraft the lease with me and the new wife on it, without the ex on it. Or we're going to give you 30 days notice of move. Which one do you want us to.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'll get you responsive. I'll just move.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Right. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you don't need her permission or a court order regarding her. The landlord simply just needs to agree to release her from liability.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

She gets no rights. There's no rights here at all.

[George Kamel]

And she hasn't lived there in a long time. And so I don't know why. Why it would even be an issue.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Caller]

That's just the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, apparently this chick has got issues and she's throwing anything she can around to try to take new power plays, any. Any kind of a flex that's possible. And you're just worried about that. Right?

[Caller]

Right. And yeah, And I. Right. And again, it just feels gross moving.

[Dave Ramsey]

In with, you know. Yeah. You don't want to show up in a house that I live in. It's not gonna be good for your health. Don't do that.

[George Kamel]

What's the upside of continuing for him to live there and you to move in there? Why not just get a different place?

[Caller]

Well, as you know, San Francisco is a very expensive market. He has rent of very, very, very little. The property magic of the landlord was very gracious. He has not. They have not raised the rent in like the four or five years he's lived here. It's a very thousands of dollars less than anywhere else that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I don't want to live there.

[George Kamel]

I just wonder even.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't live there. And I don't care if it's thousands of dollars less or not. I don't want to live there unless her name is off this lease and yours is on it.

[Caller]

Right? Yeah, I feel the same way.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want to move. So either fix it or I'm moving. And that's my direction to your fiance. Grow a backbone. You should have already done this eight months ago for your girlfriend, your soon to be wife, and you've sat on your thumbs. Now fix this, buddy. That's my direction to him. Okay?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

He shouldn't. You shouldn't have to be calling me about this. He should have already taken care of this. This bull crap. Okay? But he's also gets pushed around by her pretty regularly. And that's what's really bothering you at the core of this.

[George Kamel]

And I'm not sure that's gonna stop even with this lease situation fixed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nope. Not till we run down to a Walmart on aisle three and pick up about a backbone. That's what that's gonna happen. So. All right. Open phones at Triple 882-552. 225. So a lease is an obligation. It is not a blessing. Being released from the obligation would be a blessing.

[George Kamel]

That the opposite of a lease is a release.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. Released from the lease. Yes. But I mean, so I mean, think about it. It's like a loan, okay? If you go through a divorce and you have a mortgage loan, your spouse is on is liable on the mortgage loan. The mortgage company doesn't let her go, won't let him go. Right. Unless you refinance and take them off, they won't just release you from that.

[George Kamel]

Because prove that you're responsible enough to handle that.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you don't have any rights because you're on the mortgage. You have Lost rights because you're on the mortgage. Same thing with a lease. Yeah, so there's not a. There's no benefit to.

[George Kamel]

It's just risk and liability on her part, other than, I guess, control. To stay intermingled in his life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Just to be constantly flexing.

[George Kamel]

Only reason I can think of why you'd want to stay on that thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

All the more reason to put up.

[George Kamel]

Because he could stop paying and it's on her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly.

[George Kamel]

There's one move.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, it's just. I'm moving. I'm moving.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Not worth the drama, that's for sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nothing. Nothing is worth the drama.

[George Kamel]

Oh, goodness.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't sell your soul for a couple thousand bucks savings on something. Don't. Don't sign. Don't sign up for lack of freedom and drama and call that a good deal. That's not a good deal.

[Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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Rachel's in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Rachel. How are you?

Rachel?

[George Kamel]

Earth to Rachel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Rachel. Three, two. Yeah, we got.

[George Kamel]

We had her right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

There she was. Okay, I'll try her again. She came up. We'll try it again. Rachel, are you there now?

[Caller]

Yes, I'm here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how can we help?

[Caller]

I'm actually calling because how do I even start the baby steps when I am absolutely drowning and even trying to get caught up on my bills?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, getting caught up would be the first step before you start the baby steps. You're right. You're. You're onto something there. So why are you drowning?

[Caller]

I actually had Some health issues over the past year.

I'm. I've missed so much work. I've had to find another job because I believe my last job is killing me, and that required a pay cut. And I'm working from home now, and.

It'S just getting caught back up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, you got the exact wrong solution for being behind on your bills, taking a pay cut. We want to go the other way, so what in the world? What's wrong with your health?

[Caller]

Well, I. My job was very unsteady where I was at, and they. Working from home to being pulled back into the office, and I just started having a bunch of anxiety attacks, and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Working in the office caused anxiety.

[Caller]

The people I was around. And then they started doing layoffs, and it was just a very stressful situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what were you doing?

[Caller]

I do medical billing. My job is not hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that's what you were doing at the other place.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that were you being. What were you being paid?

[Caller]

I was being paid around 45. It wasn't a huge pay cut. I'm at about 40,000 now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and how much debt do you have?

[Caller]

I have about 120,000 without mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what's that on?

[Caller]

6,000 is about my medical debt.

14,687 for a boat. I have student loans and about. That's about 10,000.

We have a truck. That's 37. That was about 38,000.

And.

And then I have a Jeep. That's about 41,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just said we. What's your husband make?

[Caller]

He makes about 70,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you have $110,000 income currently. All right, and you got a Jeep, a truck, a boat.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then what else was student loan and a medical debt and what else?

[Caller]

And two credit cards, and that's about 2,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And we do have IRS debt. Well, my husband does, so I say we, and I think that's probably about 8,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Yeah. Okay. But. So your $5,000 pay cut didn't really cause you any trouble. It's all your overspending that's caused you trouble.

[Caller]

And I can agree to that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So.

You'Re not gonna like me. Sell the truck, sell the Jeep, sell the boat.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I'm starting to get my life back now.

[George Kamel]

I mean, you clear the majority of your debt. If you did that, what stopped you guys thus far from getting rid of these things that are crushing you?

[Caller]

I will say the boat. That is all we do is.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care.

[George Kamel]

I think you should be One.

[Dave Ramsey]

Instead of boating, you're calling me, talking about you're so stressed out you can't breathe, and you're $120,000 in debt. You can't afford a boat, you're broke. Go to the park and throw a Frisbee.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not gonna do any of this, are you? You're not really ready. You're not really in enough pain to fix this. You want an easy button? I don't have one. Honey, the only button I got is the one that will work. I love you enough to tell you the truth. And the truth is you got to sell this crap. You've been spending like you're in Congress, and you're rationalizing and justifying and rationalizing and justifying, and only when you look up and go, I caused this and I can fix this. Or are you going to be able to fix it? I can tell from the tone of your voice you're not going to do any of it. So when you're ready to be helped, we can help you. And we love you and we'll try to help you, but we're not going to tell you what you want to hear. We're going to tell you what really helps. And so we're really not known for telling people, making people feel good. That's not the point. We want you to feel good ten years from now. Not today. Today, I want you to have pain so that you can get free of this trashy life you have. Your life sucks. You make $110,000 in Columbia, South Carolina, and you gave up a job because of anxiety at the office. And really, the anxiety was at home.

Sitting in the driveway with a boat and a Jeep and a truck. That's where it was. So, yeah, you just got a bunch of crap you can't afford. You're living like you know. You're spending like you got money and you don't have any money. I'm sorry, honey, but we can help you when you're ready to do that. But you're gonna have to amputate some crap, and that'll give you your life back. Until you're ready to do that, though, I don't have an easy button for you. I can't help you. Kevin is in New York. Hey, Kevin. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey. How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

I was just looking for some help. I'm married, 33, and I'm having some trouble with the fear of kicking Murphy out, as you guys would say. So I'M looking for a big old kick in the butt to help me get rid of some irrational fears on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm so confused. What are we talking about in your book?

[Caller]

Kicking Murphy out is one of the chapters for.

Basically lowering your savings to.

Like emergency fund to 1,000 and then putting that all towards debt. But like, I think it's Murphy's laws.

[Dave Ramsey]

To temporarily do that so that you can get the debt cleaned as fast as possible.

Living there forever.

[Caller]

Yeah. You understand having trouble with this. I'm. I'm afraid that something's going to happen in the meantime to a car or medically or something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

It might, it might. How much debt have you got right now?

[Caller]

Between me and my wife, we have.

About $25,000 debt between.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your household income?

[Caller]

Household income together is 8,600amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so how fast do you clear up $25,000?

[Caller]

I'm looking at.

Other than the car, August, and then after that, I would say within a year, about 12 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. 2,000 bucks a month and you'll be done. So for 12 months you got to make it on a thousand dollars. And if something during that 12 month period of time happens beyond, you'll have to stop your get out of debt plan and pile up some cash to fix whatever it is that's beyond $1,000. The probability of that's very close to zero, though.

[Caller]

I think the fear comes from childhood or something. That's my fear is that something just something's going to happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That is a rational fear. I don't even know where it comes from either. But walking around with $1,000 only to your name for the rest of your life would be stupid.

Because common sense tells you something's going to happen, right? Yeah. So your fear is. I think your fear is justified, but it's not justified enough to stay in debt.

How much money have you got in savings right now?

[Caller]

About 15,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so wait a minute, we have 25 in debt. We're not in debt for a year. If you put 14 towards the 25, that's only 11 left. You should be done in like three months.

[Caller]

Yeah, the 15 was without putting it towards it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Kamel]

So could you take half your take home pay and throw it at the debt? If you cut down your expenses and worked harder.

[Caller]

Right now we put. Yeah, right now we put 1,800amonth towards.

The emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What I would do is I would throw everything at the debt and that leaves you $11,000 worth of debt. You make $8,000 a month and I would be done with the debt in three months.

[George Kamel]

You don't need to keep stacking this emergency fund. You need to start killing the stat.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man. This is. Dude, you're acting like this is a 30 year problem. It's a 90 day problem. I mean when the leaves turn green, you're gonna be.

[Caller]

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All.

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[Dave Ramsey]

One of our favorite things is hearing people share their stories of how they're winning. We just heard this from Claire and Winston. Fan quote. This is me and my husband's third month budgeting with every dollar and we're amazed at how much money we found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding an ext $3,500 in margin each month to put towards our debt. We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off. Never going back. Way to go guys. That's amazing. Hey guys, you can do this too. You can take control of your money, you can change your family tree and you can live like no one else. Go download the everydollar budget app for free. It will guide you hand holding through the Ramsey steps. The Ramsey plan, the Ramsey process, the stuff you hear on the air. This app will walk you right through it and cause you to do it. You'll get out of debt, become wealthy and outrageously generous. And we'll show you how. Come on baby, let's do this. It's time. Courtney's with us in Los Angeles. Hi Courtney, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I'm so excited.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we're honored to have you. How can we help.

[Caller]

Well, I want to start by saying that my husband and I are completely debt free minus our current home and our rental property.

My question today is regarding our rental property. Okay, Dave. So my parents are the tenants and it's not going well. And it has not been going well for the past 11 years. I wanted to help them out so because they could no longer afford their home. So I wanted to be a good daughter and help out my parents. The issue is that they're not communicating with us. The rent is late each month. For example, Dave, I received November's rent last Friday, which was December 5th. No communication. I have diligently made sure each month I communicate with them for the past year about the rent. But nothing's changed. I've asked them to move in with us. The answer is no. I've asked them to think about moving into something cheaper. The answer is no. I've asked them do I need to set aside money to get a bigger home with the mother in law unit is no. Dave. I sent them through Financial Peace University. Nothing has changed. I only owe $60,000 on my rental property in California. That's really, really good. This is supposed to be part of my retirement money towards my kids college fund. We sacrificed so much, Dave. This process and your principles helped help us so much. Things that I had no idea we would be able to accomplish, but we have. I'm just. I need help, Dave. I don't know what to do.

Share your wisdom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well.

You'Re not shocked that your parents have not paid this on time. And I'm not shocked that they've not paid it on time. They've never paid anything in their lives on time. And you knew when you stuck them in there that they weren't instantaneously going to become financial geniuses.

You had to know that this was gonna happen.

So you signed up for this trip, right?

[Caller]

Oh my goodness, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I'm sorry. It's so hard when it's family and especially your mom and dad and you're trying to do something nice for them. So you kinda got one of two options. One is give up.

None of the options are going to be try to talk them into becoming financially responsible. That obviously doesn't work. So that's not one of the options we're gonna try. That ship has sailed. We tried it. Okay, so either you give up and you pay the house off. It's only $60,000. Let's get over and get it paid off and just let them live there. And then when they pay and if they pay, be surprised and just surrender.

That's giving up. Okay? If you want to do that, that's not a bad thing. But you're just saying, whatever that house is worth, I'm just pissing that money away. And in the name of taking care of my parents and that's. I'm just going to live with that. And I'm not going to fret about it, because happiness comes. You know, I always laugh when I'm playing golf. My golf motto is, the secret to happiness is low expectations.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you quit expecting them to be something that they're not going to be, then you can just chill. Right? So you're just going to let them live there, and if they pay, we're going to act surprised. Okay. And that's not a bad plan. You could get the 60,000 paid off in a few years or a few months or whatever and not worry about it, couldn't you? The other option, if you want to be a little more.

Shall we say, aggressive. Okay, then I can help you with that one, too. You can call them and say, mom and Dad, I talk to my financial advisor. I'm your financial advisor. And he said to sell this house. And so we're gonna put the house on the market and sell it. So y' all are gonna have to find a place to live.

Okay? And they just go figure out their life. Cause they're like grownups and crap, and they oughta been figuring out their life long time ago without being babysat by their own daughter. So. Hello. How old are these people?

[Caller]

My dad is what, 65? My mom is 64.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, so get a job and go pay your rent. Shut up. I mean, come on.

[George Kamel]

So let's play the scenario. They go, Ren somewhere, and they have a landlord now. Do you think they're going to pay on time?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's up to them. That's their problem all of a sudden? That's their problem.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, I think they quickly figure it out. Wouldn't they? They go, no, we should probably.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're not giving an option of you have to pay on time or we're selling it. You just say, I talked to my financial advisor. He says we got to sell the house, so y' all gotta move. We're gonna put the house on the market February 1st, so y' all gotta be gone by then. So y' all look for a place. Cause we gotta get the house sold. Well, what about. Listen, you know, it worked for a while. You were here for 11 years. And now we can't do it anymore. And the financial advisor says, I gotta, I got to sell it. Because I'm telling you, you got to sell it. So you can blame me. Just say, my financial advisor, I'm the bad guy. Okay? And, you know, but that puts them back out and to deal with the reality of their misbehavior. And that's actually not a bad thing either. But. But then you can't be running and rescuing them every time they stub their toe. You got to just let them go. I just love you.

[Caller]

You have to learn how to do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Some people need to be loved from further distance than others. You need a little more distance between you and them.

[George Kamel]

If you stop the enabling, then it'll also stop the resentment that's been bubbling up in your life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just say, gosh, you're over there and I sure hope it works out for you. I love you, be cheering for you, and, you know, I'm not gonna worry about it after that. It's their problem. You've done all you can do and then 11 years too much, right?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, I mean, it isn't like you didn't try. You're a sweetheart, you tried everything. So if you want to cut them loose, you could do that. And you would not be doing something immoral or unethic or unbiblical or anything like that. You gave 11 years worth of enabling a shot here and it didn't work.

So either just give up and pay it off and let them live there and don't worry about it and just be shocked when they do pay. Don't bring it up again, don't communicate about it, don't even mention it ever again. Just if the check comes, the rent check shows up, just be, wow, I'm so shocked. I mean, just to have that attitude about it and then you'll be fine. Or put the house on the market February 1st and tell him to go find a place to live.

And blame it on your financial advisor and I'll take that role. Actually, George. George is your favorite.

[George Kamel]

You can blame me, I can handle that. He.

[Dave Ramsey]

His name is George. Your financial advisor's name, last name.

[George Kamel]

I love it. It reminds me of the old quote. If they wanted to, they would. If they wanted to pay on time, they would. If they wanted to become debt free, they would. And so you just can't change people.

[Dave Ramsey]

Guy used that on me in my 20s when I was late for everything. He says, you're late for everything. I said, well, I'm busy, I'm busy. If you want to be on Time you would. And you know what pissed me off.

[George Kamel]

But he was right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm not late anymore.

[George Kamel]

You were very punctual. That's actually shocking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Arrogant. It's arrogant to be late. You're making a statement to the people that they don't matter.

[George Kamel]

That's at the root of this is a lack of respect. It's a lack of respect for their daughter and the kindness that she's offered them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[George Kamel]

To say, hey, we're not going to pay on time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[George Kamel]

Even that's what we agreed to. We're not people of integrity.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's smells like a parasite. Yeah. Yeah. It's just sad when your parents are qualified as that.

[George Kamel]

It muddies the waters. Which is why I. I personally would not have signed up to My mom and dad. Would not have signed up and become their landlord.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nope.

[George Kamel]

Because they remember when they change your diaper.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nope.

[George Kamel]

So it just makes it awkward when. Now you're demanding rent payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's. Sorry, mom and dad. We gotta sell the house.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

I mean, it's the easiest way. It's the nicest way to evict someone is just to get rid of the whole situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Start from scratch. You don't have to go into all why? And you don't have to go into. You don't pay the rent on time. So you don't have to go into. We've begged you. We've tried. You don't have to try to be corrective with it. There's no point in that because it's not going to work. It's just clean. It's just like, gosh, you know, sorry, y' all got to look for places. We're selling the house. So either that or just pay the thing off and quit worrying about it. Either one. Either one's okay. Either one's okay. You're a good daughter either way. You gave it a run.

[George Kamel]

But it's living in your head rent free. And currently, they're basically living in your house rent free.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a lot of free rent here.

[George Kamel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Our question of the day is brought to you by why Refi Defaulted Private student loans don't just disappear, but you can make them disappear by taking control. Why Refi offers low fixed rate refinancing that gives you hope and a clear path forward. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not available in all states.

[George Kamel]

Today's question comes from Craig in New York. I'm 70 years old, still working, and I'm now a high net worth individual thanks to your principles. I agree with 99% of what you say, but here's the 1% I don't agree with. I have a $320,000 mortgage at 2.75% on a property that's worth $4 million. I paid extra for years and at this point over half of my monthly payment goes to principal and the rest goes to interest. The house payment is a small percentage of my monthly income and I'm making way more interest on the over 320k I have in savings than the house interest is costing me. Why would I consider paying off that mortgage?

It's like a Common Core math riddle here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sleep.

You'll sleep better.

And you don't even know it. It's a very small problem for you. So you're not going to go bankrupt because of this and you're not going to not become a millionaire. Apparently you already have, so congratulations. But you didn't become a millionaire because you borrowed $320,000. You became a Millionaire because you saved money and got out of debt. And I got to tell you, you have no idea, Craig. It's going to blow your mind. The peace.

Peace is going to run down your spine when you pay this off. You're going to feel it physically and you're going to sleep better. It's that simple. And debt equals risk. And risk has a math factor to it that you did not use in your little formula. So your formula is naive and incomplete. So if you adjust for risk mathematically, the money that you're making on your high yield savings over the top of 2.75 isn't spit and won't buy you a biscuit. So you're really not some financial genius here. At the end of the day, you're actually fairly naive about it. But it's okay. If you want to keep your mortgage like it's a pet, that's fine. But some people keep pet snakes. I don't. I don't have any pet snakes. You ain't pet snakes.

[George Kamel]

Zero.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

I think they're, they're of the devil.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got zero mortgages too.

[George Kamel]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

This. Even the math isn't that impressive on this. When you go, well, I could make three and a half, but the mortgage is two points.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you make 1% on this, you made 3200 bucks. $250 a month. That's not worth me taking the call for this. It's a biscuit. I mean, really.

[George Kamel]

And you can now invest the mortgage payment and make up for lost time.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's not even. It doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. All this, it's hilarious. It's like I can borrow $4 and make us and make, and make money on my $4. Who cares?

[George Kamel]

As a portion of your net worth and your income. This is not worth your money.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's irrelevant. It's irrelevant. The property's worth 4 million, you know, so you keep it. You keep your little mortgage if you want to pet it on the head and if you like pet snakes. I don't like pet snakes. Even small ones. And so they're all poisonous as far as I'm concerned. I hate the oxymoron is David's a good snake. I hate the large banks. I hate the car companies financing and putting people in debt. I'm sick and tired of the Federal Government ensuring 18 year olds can borrow $100,000 and they can't even buy beer.

And so.

But, but we're going to put them in debt because we're going to help help you out. We're from the Congress, and we're going to team up with the big banks. And the big banks in Congress when they team up is never good for the regular people. It's never good for us regular folk. So I'm sick of these people preying on everybody and then, you know, turn it into sophisticated bull crap. It's not sophisticated at all. So, Craig, I'd pay it off. But you're not going to. So good luck with that.

[George Kamel]

Become someone else's problem. Your. Your kids will deal with the estate planning and pay it off.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not a big thing. This really doesn't matter. So Carolina is in Las Vegas. Hi, Carolina. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing great. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I just wanted to ask how you would Recommend Paying off $90,000 in DEB.

In school and saving for my daughter's college fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Are you married?

[Caller]

Yes, I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does your husband make?

[Caller]

He makes 2,800amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're in school studying what?

[Caller]

I'm getting my master's in Applied behavior analysis.

[Dave Ramsey]

To do what?

[Caller]

To work with children with disabilities would be to be a supervisor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Caller]

Making what.

In the future?

It says on the Internet, right? It says that I would make close to 100,000 a year. And that's what I know. Between 90 to 1,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your husband do?

[Caller]

He is a driving instructor.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's his plan for his career?

[Caller]

So in January, he starts welding school. He's trying to do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Excellent. How old are you guys? 23.

[Caller]

I'm 28 and he is 33.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, miss that. Okay. And your baby's how old?

[Caller]

She just turned six.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, the formula that we have to work with is income minus outgo. Your income is low because you're not working. And he's not working much.

Or he's not making much is a better way of saying it. Right. You guys haven't got a lot. It's not like you're buying Coach Purses on the weekend. Okay? I mean, you don't have any money. 2,800 in a family of three. And you're in school. How are you paying for school?

[Caller]

So I took out a $50,000 loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

And when do you finish school?

[Caller]

18 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

And total balance of student loans is 90k. And there's more debt on top of that?

[Caller]

No, no, it's 90k debt in total? Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think you're going to get out of debt until you get your income up. But the good news is you have plans to get both of you to get your income up. I mean, his income's going to double when he gets gets his welding certificate or more depending on what he's doing. And then you're gonna get out in 18 months and make money. And then you guys are gonna plow through this. But right now you're making $34,000 a year and you have a little baby, so you're probably not gonna make big dents in this 90k. Is that fair? Yeah, but I would work. I mean, you can work and he can work and you can do side jobs and let's do what we can to bring in extra money because you don't have much money coming in. You have a big hole and a very small shovel right now. Now I'm looking forward to the day that your shovel is bigger in order to fill up this hole.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what I think. And that's okay. That's not the end of the world. Don't go in any more debt. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah, we, we like turned off our credit cards and things like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like I want to turn off these student loans. No more. Yeah, no more student loans. Can you finish school with no more student loans?

[Caller]

Yeah. That's 50,000 for the entire course.

[George Kamel]

And to your question, I would not be investing in a college fund right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[George Kamel]

We've got a priority of knocking out this debt and so every dollar needs to go toward that. We'll make up for lost time in a few years and you'll still have a great Runway of a decade to save up for College.

[Dave Ramsey]

You make 30 something thousand dollars a year now. You'll be making 130 in 24 to 36 months. And you knock this debt out and then you start saving for college and you work right up the baby steps the way we teach. But today you don't have extra cash laying around to do either. And so first thing is take care of your own household. Don't add any more debt. And then if you can scratch together a little bit more, both of you working some extra jobs or something and you want to throw something at the 90. Doesn't make me mad, but I'm just not going to put heavy expectations on you because again, you have a very a $90,000 hole and a small income. That's your shovel. So. But the good news is you're doing something about that. Both of you are going to get sizable upgrades in income and that's Just wonderful. Good for you. Congratulations. Very cool, man. The trades. The trades are the answer for a lot of these folks. A lot of people moving that direction nowadays. And so people wonder where all the jobs are.

[George Kamel]

Trades.

[Dave Ramsey]

Step into the welding, step into the diesel mechanics. Step into the heavy equipment. Operator. And you step into six figures pretty quick. And makes Mike Rowe happy to hear that. But he's right. He's on to something. He's been onto something since before it was cool. He was an early adopter, but there you go. Good stuff.

[George Kamel]

This episode is sponsored by Better Help. All right, the holidays are here. And the holidays are full of traditions. Some of these traditions we love. Some of these traditions we just tolerate. In addition to the traditions, this time of year can also bring a lot of noise, pressure, and even loneliness. Maybe this is your cue this year to slow down and ask yourself, what really matters to me right now. And moving forward, therapy gives you space to do just that. To think, to breathe, and to make room for peace. And if you're thinking about therapy, I want you to check out my friends at BetterHelp. They've got more than 30,000 licensed therapists, and they've helped over 5 million people worldwide. With an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars. BetterHelp is totally online, so it fits around your schedule even during the chaotic holiday times. You just get online and answer a few questions, and BetterHelp will match you with someone who fits your needs. And if the therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Visit betterhelp.comramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. John is with us in Huntsville. Hey, John. How are you?

[Caller]

Doing well. Doing well. Thank you guys for taking the call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Kind of stuck in a financial and a moral dilemma, and I don't know which way to go. Okay, brief backstory is, father passed away about 12 years ago. I inherited the business solely built it up. Now I've sold it off. The moral side of that is none of my family members knows that I've sold it yet. And they weren't part of it. They had no business dealings with it. But after our father died, it just seemed like I was the sibling that everyone came to for everything, you know, and just listening to you guys, you know, I think that with the sell of that business and selling the home, I'M currently in. I would wind up being debt free completely and have quite a bit at, you know, 46 years old to be able to retire with. And I'm just. I'm wondering, I guess, you know, have I been too deceptive with. With what's going on or. It's like nobody ever calls to say, hey, how are you doing? It's always, hey, I need this or that or the other. And I guess I'm too much like my dad in that respect.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

I don't know.

It sounds like you're.

To what extent have you been helping? How much money or what have you been doing?

[Caller]

Bailed one brother out of two different mortgages twice.

[Dave Ramsey]

To the tune of, like, a hundred grand or something.

[Caller]

A couple hundred thousand? Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you gave him a couple hundred thousand dollars.

[Caller]

It was. It was a. It was a loan. And I know. I know where you're going with that, but I haven't been paid back. I've gotten about 30,000 of it back. Yeah, but that was.

[Dave Ramsey]

What about. What about everybody else? What about everybody else?

[Caller]

One sister.

If we're keeping track, she probably owes me around 65,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

For what?

[Caller]

Apparently, there were some medical procedures that I was told was dire.

That was more cosmetic than medical and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

You know, have you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you. You know, have you made the determination that this was really not helpful in the end, that their lives pretty much ended up about where they began, and so you really didn't cause them to cut. Suddenly become prosperous with your gifts?

[Caller]

That is great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So does that give you the courage. Does that give you the courage to say, no, next time?

[Caller]

There's. There's. Where a problem lies. Because I. I really. It's not a. They always play on that, you know, how daddy was kind of thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is gone. And so now you're daddy. You got to grow up, and I can't help you. You got. Already gave you 200 grand. Already gave you 60 grand to have your tummy tucked, and I'm done.

I mean, grow up. These are grown people now. You don't have to be that mean to them. But that's what needs to go through your head so that you can just smile and say, gosh, I hope it works out for you, but I'm not Daddy. Daddy's gone.

[Caller]

Yeah.

So I've.

[Dave Ramsey]

In.

[Caller]

The one good thing was the business broker that we were involved with had mentioned, you know, have you ever heard of this program? And, of course, I, you know, I grew up in Franklin, so I'd heard of Yalls Yalls courses and stuff before, and I just felt like from a deception side of it, because I'm literally moving completely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the thing.

[Caller]

Out of state.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't. You know, you could just tell them I sold the business, sold my house, but you don't. You don't owe them any explanation or cut.

You know that, right?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Kamel]

I think there's some survivor's guilt here because you've done well and you've seen them struggle and you go, well, I guess they deserve some of this because you're a good person. But the problem is you're being manipulated and abused.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

By these people. And the only time they reach out to you is for more money. Right.

[Caller]

More money, or.

[George Kamel]

So you're bank of John.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

There's no relationship to salvage here. If you keep giving them more money, you just continue the transaction.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, no, I. You don't have an obligation. So there's not real deception, but you're just not wanting to tell them because you think they're going to come for money. They want some of it. And so. And you're just going to have to get emotionally prepared because at some point this is going to come out, whether you make a big deal about it or whether you don't. If you just go, oh, yeah, by the way, I'm leaving. We sold the house. We sold the business. What? Yeah, yeah, that's what we're doing. And so, you know, we'll stay in touch and let you know where we land because we love you.

[Caller]

What would you suggest with the remainder of the money as far as, like. Because like I said, I am 46.

And, you know, I just kind of. I want. Not want to retire fully. I just want to relax for a while. Like, I've been working with my dad since I was 7, and I'm. I'm tired.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What kind of business did you sell?

[Caller]

It was a construction services company.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good for you. All right, so the first. Let's stay with the first part of the conversation for a moment, and then we'll come to the second part. The first part of the conversation, sir, is you need to pick up Henry Cloud's book. It's called Boundaries. You don't have any.

[Caller]

That's called boundaries.

[Dave Ramsey]

Boundaries. Your boundaries. You don't have any fences. Fences are down on your farm, and the animals keep getting in and the animals keep getting out, and you need fences. Okay. You know what I'm talking about? You know, button is broken and you need to fix it because you're not really helping. You're just being weak.

Am I wrong?

[Caller]

It's hard to hear, but no, you're not wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so just fix your no button. That's good for your brother, it's good for your sister. If you want to call. If they call up and say something, just go, hey, listen, I'll tell you what I'm gonna do. That money that I loaned you, just don't worry about it. Forget it. Because you're not gonna get it anyway, by the way. But. So just forgive it and say but. But we're done. We won't be doing any more business transactions. Okay? You're my brother, you're my sister. I love you, but we're not doing any more money transactions. Those loans are forgiven. I'm not going to make that mistake again. So don't ask and just. You need to get. You need to fix your no button. It's broken now. Then that. It sets you up with the money that you've made and so what the business sell for how much you got?

[Caller]

1,230,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Congratulations. That's not enough to retire on at 46. But it is. But it is enough already.

[Caller]

Have some say.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much?

[Caller]

Two and a quarter million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So you got 3 million dollar net worth. Okay, you could quit, but I don't want you to quit. I want you to take a break and decide what the next chapter is. You know what an encore is after the band has played all their greatest hits and they left off one and the Eagles, everybody's clapping and the Eagles come back out on stage, right? And you know, they play one more song and it's what? It delights the crowd. You got one more song in you or two or three. You're only 46. And fishing and golf will get old after a while. You need to lay your hand to something. You don't have to work 60 hours a week. You don't have to bust your hump, but you could kind of cruise into something and be of value to your fellow man. Because you're a smart guy, you're a wise guy, you're a kind guy, you're a person of character. And we actually need you operating businesses in the marketplace. America needs men like you and women like you to do stuff. So take a little break. A year from now, I want you to start something. Something you've always dreamed of. It's been tickling in the back of your head. And I want you to spend a little of this money getting it going. And I want you to make yourself useful because you're going to have more joy that way than you will sitting on your butt.

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Angels in San Francisco. Hi, angel, how are you?

[Caller]

You. Hey, what's up, guys? Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I'm a little confused. I worked my whole life since I was probably 12 years old, and everything I've done to create money is basically on my back. You know, I, I bought a property. I had a small house. I built a second home in the back. From the plumbing to the electrical to the foundation, everything was me to save some money. Now I'm renting the property in the front. But everything that I, everything else that I do is always labor. And I make pretty decent money. And I'm wondering, where can I put my money in? So it makes me money. And I don't go on vacation with my wife and kids. And I'm thinking, man, the truck is parked and I'm losing money every day while I'm here in vacation. Right. So I have that stress of not making money if I'm not working.

Is that, does that make sense to you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Are you running a business?

[Caller]

Yes, I got a trucking business, but technically I'm an owner operator. Right. I make about a. Yearly about 325,000. My wife works as well. But whenever the truck is parked or it breaks down, there's. There's no income coming in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And that's where I'm having trouble trying to figure out.

[Dave Ramsey]

All it is, is you own your job.

[Caller]

Yes, that's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So if you don't work, you don't make money because you own your job. It's straight commission. Yeah. And so the only thing you can do.

Is to grow that business and have several other people doing that work, that work for you, and then they're working when you're not. But until then, you're a one. You're a solopreneur. We call it a single person, small business. And it does all depend on you.

[Caller]

You're.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're on a treadmill, and so you're stuck on that. And that's not bad. You're making 300. Like you said, you're making 320,000. So shut up and take a week off. That's okay. You can take, you can go on vacation. It's not going to kill you. You're not going to go hungry if you take a week off when you're making 320 grand.

[Caller]

No. So here's, here's the thing, though. I'm in California. So in California to, to get drivers to get other trucks and going. The profit, because I've already done it before, the profit, it's not there and it's not worth all and the headache.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, okay, so you're going to own your job, and when you're not working or when the truck's broken, you're not making money. I mean, that, that, that's your reality. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just. You just know what it is, but there's not really a fix for it except to do something else.

[Caller]

Well, that's. I guess that's why I'm calling you guys, to see where.

[George Kamel]

What do you want to do?

[Caller]

Do you want to.

[George Kamel]

It sounds like you don't want to scale and delegate this and you don't want to do it all on your own.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it you want to do?

[Caller]

I want to. I want to. I want to be able to put my money somewhere where it makes money and it's not, it's not on my back all the time.

[George Kamel]

Do you want, you want, quote, passive income?

[Caller]

Yes, passive income.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And yesterday I ran into one of you guys's commercials, and, you know, I put my link up with some information, and I got about 40 people calling me there, you know, saying everyone works for you and this and that, and they're throwing me one way and the other one. That's why I called you guys today. I'm trying to figure out, okay, you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You did not, you did not, you did not get in touch with us. We don't have 40 people to call you.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got, you got scammed. You got scammed. Some kind of AI bull crap or something. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Be careful what you click on. On the Internet.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's why I called you yesterday.

[George Kamel]

So what have you been doing any investing with this? Money.

[Caller]

Money.

[George Kamel]

Because you're making amazing money. Where is it all going? Where's this 25, 30 grand going every month?

[Caller]

Okay, so.

But when I bought the property, had a small house. I built a second home for us in the back and now I'm renting the house in the front.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you doing with the money that comes in every month?

[Caller]

So I just purchased some. They're called luxury bathrooms, restrooms for events. I purchased some of those.

[George Kamel]

So you're spending all the money coming in to start new businesses.

[Caller]

To start.

[George Kamel]

To reinvest something because you have a trucking business and now you're talking about buying luxury bathrooms.

[Caller]

Yes. Just in case. Just in case the trucking business doesn't. Doesn't feed me anymore. Maybe you know, the other business will. Right. But again, the other business is always me calling the bathroom from here to there. So I wanted to invest on. On the market or I wanted to invest somewhere where I can, I can.

[George Kamel]

So you want to stop investing in all these multi businesses because you can't be a serial entrepreneur and do it all at once. And so you're wanting to invest it elsewhere like in mutual funds in the.

[Caller]

Stock market.

Something like that. Yeah, that's what I need.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But here's the thing, okay. Running a small business always makes a lot more money for the money invested than investing it in anything else. If you bought a rental property and paid cash for it, it doesn't, you know, put 500 grand into that. It doesn't pay you. What if you took that same 500 grand and opened a business? It would pay you a lot more, but you've got to work more as you have figured out. So no, I would not open six businesses and call that investing. That's just serial entrepreneur. And they're all going to fail because of lack of focus. I would not do that. Decide what businesses you want to be in and very carefully and very diligently and very gradually make your move into those and away from trucking so that you can get off the road. Because it sounds like that's really what you need to do. And then as far as your investing goes, I personally invest angel in two things other than my business. And I put money in good growth stock mutual funds. And you can Find a person that doesn't work for me, but that we Recommend Called a SmartVestor Pro on our website, only at. Not on Instagram. You can't find them there. You can find them on our [e-mail] and click on Smartvestor. They'll sit down with you and help you do some mutual fund investing. And. But you know, you're not, not putting enough money in there right now to not have to work. It's going to be a long time before you get there. And. And then I personally also buy real estate that I pay cash for, but I would only recommend that to you after your 100% debt free house and truck and everything. And so I'm gonna get you completely out of debt. That frees up all your money to build wealth with and to be generous with. And that's how I have done mine. Okay? And folks, if 40 different people call you and say they work for Ramsey and they have things to sell you, they don't work for Ramsey because we don't do that.

[George Kamel]

You're about to get scammed. Don't fall for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't have that, okay? We have a network of people that we endorse that are real estate people. And so if you click on our website and say, I want a real estate agent that's Ramsey trusted, we'll send that to you.

[Caller]

You.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you click on SmartVestor Pro and want to talk to somebody about doing investing, we'll send those people to you. They don't work for us, but they're also not gonna be 40 of them calling you. And we don't have stuff that we're calling you to sell you. Okay? It's not what we do here. So that's some of the AI crap. There's something on there. The other day somebody sent me the. Apparently my. It's like kung fu movie or something. My mouth doesn't even match words.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Is it like a car loan?

[Dave Ramsey]

Like a car insurance insurance thing? Dave doesn't believe in insurance agents or something.

[George Kamel]

But how stupid is AI? Because they said this is Dave's mouth. I love my Tesla. And I went, wow, AI do better. If you think that's what.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it wasn't even AI. It's just a bad. It's a bad edit by some Russian scam artist or something. I don't know. But yeah, that's probably what you've gotten into, honey. So we just don't get into all that stuff. We're very simple people here. All right, open phones at 888-825-5225. Hey, Christian, just for the fun of it, send him a copy of building a business you love with the five stages of business. He's stuck in Treadmill. Maybe that book will help him. It's a best seller. Angel on how to operate a business and the stages of business, my latest bestseller. It's the last book I did, matter of fact, and so I'll send that to you as a gift. And you're a fellow entrepreneur for sure.

[George Kamel]

You just need some clarity, some vision, some direction. He's just doing all of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Don't, don't do everything at once. And jack of all trades, master of none. Don't, don't. Don't lose your focus. Just figure out a couple things. Do those well and just keep pushing. Keep pushing. The rock.

[Caller]

Sa.

[Dave Ramsey]

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In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Alex and Amanda are with us. How are you guys? Merry Christmas.

[Caller]

Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas.

We're doing great. How about you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Where do y' all live?

[Caller]

Live in Altoona, Pennsylvania. Basically in the middle of nowhere. Pennsylvania.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. That's a pretty area, actually.

[Caller]

Oh, awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very nice. Very cool. Welcome to Tennessee. And how much debt have you two paid off?

[Caller]

$100,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. And how long did this take?

[Caller]

Five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Five years. And your range of income during that.

[Caller]

Time between 80 and 130.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what kind of debt was the 100,000?

[Caller]

That was our mortgage debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're weird people. It's a little bitty mortgage, but you knocked her out. Congratulations. What's that house worth?

[Caller]

About 400.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. And how much in your nest egg these days in your retirement account?

[Caller]

A little over 150.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, very cool. So sitting right there at 550, heading towards a million dollars. How old are you two?

[Caller]

34.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm 35 and a paid for house. How weird are y'?

[Caller]

All?

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. Alright, tell us the story. What started this five years ago or more and how did you get connected to Ramsey?

[Caller]

So this really started about nine years, almost ten years ago now. Amanda's parents, my in laws for one of our wedding gifts, got us Financial Peace University. And we started.

Dave ish. And then we had our never again moment which we had $12 in our bank account. We weren't gonna get paid for about a week.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we were, we were looking through.

[Caller]

Our couches looking for change and basically.

Living on beans and rice.

Yeah.

Got paid, did a baby step. Did our first baby step number one. $1,000. And we never looked back.

Right.

We paid off about $85,000 in a car and student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good. Okay.

[Caller]

At that point, so we got rid of all our consumer debt and then after that we decided that we're going to move to. We were living in New Jersey at the time and we decided that we're going to move to Altoona, Pennsylvania.

Yeah.

Now during all of this we really struggled with infertility. So we, you know, we purchased our house, we got, we put a really nice down payment on it and then we adopted embryos during that time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow.

[Caller]

We cash flowed, everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

And our three littles are sitting right here. And our testament to our bet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. That's awesomeness. Proud of y'. All. About as good a use of money as I can think of.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done. Good for you guys. That's so powerful. How's it feel to be 34 years old and completely dead free?

[George Kamel]

It feels so good.

[Caller]

It's awesome. It's awesome.

Very freeing.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's doable.

[Caller]

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do y' all do for a living?

[Caller]

I actually just got promoted. I'm the chief financial officer of a small startup held in healthcare and I'm.

A social media coordinator.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, Good for you and a lot of mom, huh?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Three littles running around enjoying every moment. I love it.

[George Kamel]

So what was the Hardest part, over five years, because that's a longer journey. You know, baby step six, it's not as aggressive. Did you ever lose steam? What kind of kept you going?

[Caller]

I'd have to say it was just communication and just leaning on each other. And every time we just. We have these, like, little thermometers. Every time we'd put another chunk on the mortgage, we'd color some more.

[George Kamel]

Oh, there they are. If you're watching on YouTube or Spotify. So making visual really helps you guys.

[Caller]

Yeah, the visual really helped.

[George Kamel]

And every next, you know, $10,000, like, oh, my gosh, we're one step closer.

[Caller]

Yep, we're getting closer. We can do it.

Yeah. It's. I mean, even another piece of this about, what, almost a year and a half ago, I got laid off from my job. And we weren't nervous, we weren't scared, and we were pregnant with twins at the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh.

[Caller]

And we were like, okay, what's a severance look like? We'll make it happen. And that was an absolute blessing because my job was super stressful. It took away from my family at the time. We had a young. We had a young daughter and. And obviously a wife as well. And it was an absolute blessing because we were able to take a little bit of a risk in the next job, and that's been unbelievable for us. Such a blessing.

[George Kamel]

Such a blessing gave you options.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's amazing. Well done, you guys. All right. When people hear that you've been on this journey and you've done all of this and now you're debt free, what do you tell them? The secret to getting out of debt is?

[Caller]

I'd say being on the same page.

Yeah. Working together. You can do anything. If you work together and you communicate together, I mean, anything. Anything is possible. It really is.

[Dave Ramsey]

So why did you move from Jersey to Altoona?

[Caller]

Amanda's family lives in Altoona, and we were traveling there about two, three times a month, putting a lot of mileage on the car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. But I'm guessing it was a major cost of living shift.

[Caller]

Huge.

Absolutely.

Huge cost of living shift.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Tax base and everything.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

It was crazy. We both got jobs on the same day. God sent us jobs.

[George Kamel]

It all just worked out.

[Caller]

Just worked out perfectly.

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

In Altoona to facilitate the move. Yeah. Okay. Wow.

[George Kamel]

No income to dual income. Just like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I like it. Very cool. That's fun, guys, because we often are talking to people and going, you know, you may have to move, you know, and it doesn't, you know, what you're trying to do doesn't fit there, and you may have to move. And so I always wonder, because you made the choice to move to a more rural area and obviously a lower cost of living area and that kind of thing, but it's a great place to build a family.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you gotta have an income, and so it's all worked out and you figured out how to do it perfect. I love it. Because that's inspiring for other people listening right now. Some people are stuck in a market they can't afford to live in, and they need to unstuck themselves, and then that'll get them moving. That's good.

[George Kamel]

Good for you guys. Six figures in a low cost of living area. I mean, that's a wealth hack. So you guys are. You've cracked the code here, and it's only uphill from here or I guess downhill.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, guys. Proud of you. Who was cheering you on along the way?

[Caller]

I would say us two are our biggest motivators, but also our families were huge to this.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, they gave you. They gave you financial Peace University, so 10 years ago. So, yeah, they got to be going. I'm glad it worked.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's a lot of support.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you brought grandbabies to my neighborhood, so that's good. Exactly. Everybody's happy. Right? So there you go. I like it. Grandpa's happy, my grandma's happy.

[Caller]

So absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

They got to be cheering you on. I'm proud of. Good for you guys. Well done. Well done. Very good. All right, you want to bring up the littles. Are they going to cheer with you?

[Caller]

They're going to cheer with us.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, what are their names and their ages?

[Caller]

We have Isabella, who's three. We have Alex and Regina, who are 10 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, come on up, guys. Ooh, look at his rash.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Aw, look at these guys. They're great.

[George Kamel]

That's a good reason to become debt free right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. There's a good why right there in that picture. Good job. See, those kids are not old enough. They're even gonna remember that this happened. But their parents were heroes and changed their whole family tree by deciding to do this, sitting here completely debt free at 34 years old. Be millionaires in another 4 1/2 to 5 years. Pretty impressive stuff. Very well done. Alex and Amanda. Isabella, Alex and regina from pennsylvania. $100,000 paid off the last portion. That would be their mortgage. They're weird. Did it in five years, making 80 to 130. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Let's get ready.

[Caller]

3, 2, 1.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're debt free.

[Caller]

Love it.

[George Kamel]

Oh man, Those the little 10 month olds are going to be watching this on YouTube in like 2038. Yeah, going watching vintage.

[Dave Ramsey]

When the old man old lady made us rich. So when we got out of debt.

[George Kamel]

Your show is going to be vintage. That's pretty cool. At some point everything becomes vintage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well I don't want to talk about that right now. But yeah, I was vintage a long time ago, George. I'm way past vintage now. I'm over into antique.

[George Kamel]

You got a special license plate for that at least?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right.

[Caller]

Oh, that's so cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want the license plate that has no speed limit. That's the one I want.

[George Kamel]

That's the Autobahn.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't get that one. But yeah. You guys are incredible. Alex and Amanda, look at these heroes, man, this is so powerful.

[George Kamel]

Are we seeing more and more people in their early 30s because they had their financial peace babies? The parents got them onto financial peace. They actually believed that it could happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

They grew up in a household so when they got married they had to apply it. And 10 years, nine years later, here we are, including three babies on the way. And there's a lot of cash flowing going on with this story. Oh yeah, these guys. But I just want to encourage. We hear all these people talking about affordability and they can't afford to live. These guys make 80 to 130 and they move to Altoona, Pennsylvania and they're doing unbelievably well.

[George Kamel]

It's still possible.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a formula here. Notice the correlation, boys and girls. Yeah, they can afford to live there. It's affordability. Wow. People forget.

[George Kamel]

You can choose where you live, you can choose the job you have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Interesting.

[George Kamel]

But it's going to take sacrifice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Interesting.

[Caller]

Sam.

[George Kamel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Christmas is going to be here in about 20 minutes. You guys ready? I mean, it's here. Boom. Just like that. I mean we're 20, 25 go. I mean I just blinked and it's gone. Yeah. And consequently we are running all the appropriate Christmas sales at the Ramsey store. Here at Ramsey Solutions, Rachel Cruz's kids books are on sale for just $13. These are very good, meaningful gifts for little ones. If you want stocking stuffers or grandma, grandpa or you wanna buy something for your grandkids little kids. It's fun, easy way to teach em about contentment and gratitude and generosity. Those are the three.

Themes of the three books. If you're shopping for everyone else, the other deals are great. $13 best selling hardcovers. That's about a third of the normal price. $13 career assessments. $12 questions for humans decks 7.99 on audiobooks and ebooks. Go to ramseysolutions.com store or if you're on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the description. You know how to do that. Savannah's in Omaha, Nebraska. Hey Savannah, how are you?

[Caller]

Great. Great to talk to you both.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too.

[Caller]

So my question is, my husband and I are in our early 30s. I stay home with two toddlers and my husband works. He makes 75,000 a year. We have no debt other than our house. And we are currently not saving for retirement. We make enough just to cover normal expenses without living too uncomfortably. And then some months we can save a little. Some months we aren't able to put anything into savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your house payment?

[Caller]

We'd be living. What's that?

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your house payment?

[Caller]

We have 150 left.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, your payment.

[Caller]

Oh, it's 1300amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you make $75,000 a year?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So $7,000 a month minus taxes. So he's getting home with five.

Right?

[Caller]

It's about 4500.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much was your tax refund?

[Caller]

I think about. We just had a baby, so 2,000. But this year it'll be about 300.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Where's the money going out of his check then?

Because that's not. Your taxes are not that high.

[Caller]

Okay. We have insurance, HSA. We contribute about 150 or 200 to our HSA each paycheck.

So maybe that's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

How much was the insurance?

[Caller]

I believe, if I recall correctly, 250.

[Dave Ramsey]

Still not right. That doesn't add up to your. That doesn't add up to $75,000 a year. You're missing something. Okay. Something's gone that I'm trying to find out why you've got a pinch. Because with no. Your house payment is reasonable and given. Given your income and you don't have a single other debt, you don't have a car payment, you don't have anything.

[Caller]

No, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know where your money's going. Then I think you need to be on a written budget because you should be able to save 15% of that, which would be about a thousand dollars a month, and retire with dignity.

[George Kamel]

Does he get paid twice a month?

[Caller]

He does, yeah. It's about. Yeah, it's 2,200amonth or. Sorry, every two weeks. We are on a written budget. I watch all our money coming from his paycheck. I don't know. So I'm less familiar with what happens to his paycheck before it comes to us. So taxes and everything.

[George Kamel]

I sit down tonight with him and just take a look at it and see all the deductions that are coming out. Because what should be happening if you invest 15% into his, you know, workplace retirement plan, that's about $468 that would be coming out for the 401k. So now the goal is how can we live on the rest that actually shows up in the bank account and then budget off of that. That should become your reality. And that might mean we need to cut some expenses because all of a sudden it's too tight. And so with the remaining. If you're $1,300 mortgage payment, you still have another, you know, 3,300 bucks of wiggle room here to use to cover all of your other bills. And that's the part I think we can drill down on and figure out. Yeah, and an every dollar budget will help you guys do that. So I would sit down tonight.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does he do for a living?

[Caller]

He's an operations supervisor at a manufacturing plant.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, well, and the other question I'm going to begin to ask myself is what are our career plans right now? You're a full time mom, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, Our, our plans are. I would love to Go back to work when they get in school. And he would love to leave his job any day.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, yeah, so another one. Yeah, be working. But obviously for an upgrade. We don't want to leave his job for a downgrade. That, that's kind of counterproductive to this whole discussion. So. Yeah. So as your careers increase, you're going to find more wiggle room probably. And, but you know, you're making an average American household income. 78,000 is the average right now. Okay. And you've got, and you've got a decent, you've done a great job, by the way, to stay out of debt. Most people in this situation call me up with a car payment or two and a student loan hanging around and then can't figure out why they're broke.

[George Kamel]

Or their mortgage is three grand and they make 4,500amonth. And so you guys don't fall into that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you should be about 5,000amonth take home right now. So I still got, I've still got, I'm still tickling my brain because it's 6300 bucks. Now. I'm not talking about every two weeks. I'm talking about monthly. So that's, that throws it a little bit because you've got two magic months. If you're getting paid two way every two weeks. Two, two magic months where you get three paychecks and that throws the numbers off a little. So that.

That might, that might get you back to where you need to be. I'm might, you might be right. It might be about right.

So because you're not really making 4,500amonth, you see what I'm saying? You've, you've got two months where you get extra 2200 bucks.

[Caller]

So we do a four week budget and a five week budget based on the projection. So we do 12 of those. So I think we have about two or three five week budgets and the rest are four weeks. So four week budgets are four.

[Dave Ramsey]

There should be two where you've got a five, three paycheck.

And the rest of them are not so 10 otherwise. Because that's the way the two week cycle works. So yeah, if you're doing that with your every dollar.

The extra 22, the extra $4,500 a year might make up the difference and mean that I'm. See I was running everything saying you ought to come home with more than $4,500 a month. And you do.

Because it's actually about 5,000. Let's say 4,500.

It's almost $5,000 a month average that you're coming home with, which is what it needs to be. So you're probably not going to find a bunch of stuff in this check, but look at it anyway. Be sure.

What I would be very concerned with is those two months when you get that extra check. If you could just invest all of that.

And live on the 4500 every single month.

You'D be okay. That would get you started on your investing. Okay, you see how I'm doing that? Just pretend like you didn't get those checks. Just, just live the whole thing on 4500. Take home pay 1300. And you know, it's not, you've not got a, you're not living opulently and you've been very responsible and have done a very good job. I don't want to leave this call with you thinking we've judged you because it's quite the opposite. You're impressive. I really like what you've done. You've done a lot with a little. And, and you've got a good long term plan where he upgrades and you go back to work and your income's going to go through the roof. You're going to be at 150,000 when those two things happen. So, so, and then zoom, zoom on building up your retirement at that point. Okay. You'll be fine. So you're not, you're not in trouble. And you've done a very good job avoiding debt and managing the money that you have. So congratulations.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But maybe the hack is for now, take the two magic months, the third that have the extra check and throw that whole check into a Roth IRA and so that at least gets $5,000 a year going, at least get something moving that way. And then as you see some increases from whatever, make sure you start jacking up 401k contributions steadily as you get to more and more room in the budget. And for God's sakes, don't go into debt. So you've done a great job avoiding it so far. So Savannah, you've really, I mean, I, I would put them in the top 5% of Americans and how good a job they've done? Oh, yeah.

[George Kamel]

I mean that's a solid income and no debt and they're living very reasonably. That's a key for success.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very careful. Yeah, it's not opulent. I mean, they're not living some kind of fancy pants life.

[George Kamel]

You can't. At that point you dial in that investing and learn to live on what comes after that. You're going to be just fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey man, you're make great.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Wind Credit Union Studios. George Camel, Ramsey personality is my co host. I am Dave Ramsey. We're glad you're here. Thanks for joining us. Hannah is in Indianapolis. Hi Hannah, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, considering I'm doing okay. I recently lost my job last Friday.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. What happened? Well.

[Caller]

Said that I wasn't productive enough in downtime.

And which we had a lot of downtime but not a lot of busy work. So all of the work that I was given I would always complete on time and just wasn't like super engaged. It was a really great job. I don't feel like I extremely enjoyed it but it was a small office setting and there was just a lot of downtime and really not enough work to go around between me and the other office administrator.

[Dave Ramsey]

So did they give you a severance package?

[Caller]

They gave me a two week severance package which I'm really grateful for. I wasn't expecting it. I have about 4,000 in savings.

My bare bones, no extras, budget is about 3,500amonth. I had just recently went back to working a part time job last month.

And was kind of using that to.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it?

[Caller]

You know, kind of not a whole lot. It's $12 an hour. It's a serving job. It brings in you know, between four and five hundred dollars a month. It was just on the weekends. I'm a single mom, I don't get child support, I don't get court ordered supposed to get 50% of their expenses paid as far as like medical, extracurricular and things like that. But I currently have a balance that's owed to me that you know, hasn't been paid and I'm not getting any financial help from my ex husband.

Am going back to court within a month due to other reasons.

[Dave Ramsey]

What were you making at the job?

[Caller]

I was making.

27 an hour.

What kind of role was paid for my insurance fully. I didn't have any out of pocket for my entry.

[Dave Ramsey]

What were you doing? What was your job title?

[Caller]

Ap, Arkansas payroll, regular like office type duties, things like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay man. And so four weeks before Christmas is when they decide they have to do this?

[Caller]

Yes, yes. And I actually had to stop back in there yesterday and a family member was already in there training for that spot. So I don't know if it's something that they had had planned. I don't see them in that light. Like in general, I think they're really great people.

But it was definitely kind of a shot to my pride a little bit. So I don't know, but. So I'm kind of freaking out. It's also court ordered that I, I'm the one that has to carry the insurance and they paid for my insurance fully.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, you'll, you'll get that in the next position. So this just means that we have to just really, really, really. It's.

You're forced to set the emotions that normally go with this aside and just dive straight into a job hunt.

[Caller]

Yeah, I was really sad. Friday, Saturday, I was. I can do it. I redid my resume, did my cover letter, and then Sunday and yesterday I started to panic. I used to Uber on the side, so I went back and I ubered yesterday and it was kind of depressing. I didn't really. I was out and about for about four or five hours and just didn't make anything. The big town that's next to me is can. The traffic's congested, so it's just hard to get.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Run.

Well, it's just hard to make money with it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I don't think, I don't think you need to panic, but I do need to think you need to. I'm with you. It's fair to be very concerned because this is gonna run out and you got two weeks and you've got a little bit of money and that's it. And so you got six weeks, minus you probably got eight weeks because you can add to it with your server job, which you can probably gear up and that's probably gonna be more productive than Uber, actually.

[Caller]

Yeah, it really is. It really is. And I'm putting miles on my car and I have a nice car. It's paid off.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think Uber's gonna do that. I don't think Uber's your point. But what we do need to do is land the next full time gig that has the insurance and it has the $30 an hour thing. And it sounds like you've got some accounting training, so.

[Caller]

I was in banking for eight years.

Loved between. I started out as a teller, moved to a banker. I was an assistant manager, a branch manager. I did retail support.

And I, I feel like I really thrive in that busy environment. When there's too much downtime in a slow setting, I get really distracted and it is hard for me to maintain like a productivity. So I just, I like to be Busy. And I do like, as draining as customer service can be, I feel like I excel when it's, you know, customer focused or just people focused. I enjoy, you know, leadership roles. I've been a trainer before. It's just really hard in the area that I live because I don't live. I live about an hour from Indy and a lot of the jobs that I know that, you know, I could get hired, you know, in a couple days. It's, you know, $15 an hour.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you, you may need to be moving to Indy. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

If you got a job making 80,000, would you just move and go work there? What's stopping you from moving?

[Caller]

If I got a job in Indy or like a close, because there's some like distributions stuff up there that I could maybe do. I would just, I would just have to commute as far as far as my. It really comes down to how important my home is. I only owe 80,000 on it. It's probably worth 300 if you can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get a job in banking, making 80 and indy. Sell it and move.

[Caller]

Yeah. Well, I applied for a branch manager position about 45 minutes away and the salary is between 70 and 100.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go. And you can keep your house and make that commute. Yeah, I'm fine with that.

[Caller]

The management position that I held, it was a. More of a. It was like a community bank, a state bank, and they didn't do a lot of like outside relations that like relationship management portion that a lot of the credit unions do. So I applied to a credit union and their, their managers or branch managers are rarely ever actually like in office. They're kind of out rubbing elbows and things like that. So that's something I don't have a whole lot of experience in.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would love to. I think those are your answers. So you're right on track. We can't hire you, so I'm not going to interview you. But the. But I do want you to continue down that track. And here's the thing. I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's book and I want you to go to kencolman.com and look at his website. On all the different things in the letters and the resume covers and all that, it's very, very important that you figure out who you know from somewhere. Kids, soccer, wherever it is you know them from. You know them from church that works in one of these companies, or if you know someone that knows someone that works in one of these companies that they can get you, they can hand walk your resume into the boss's office and say, hey, look at this lady, she's sharp. Give her a look, please. She's a friend of a friend. Give her a look. And that doesn't get you hired, but it gets a look and it gets your resume out of the stack. And so the proximity principle is the idea. And it's a book that Ken wrote. I'm going to send you a copy of that. Also going to send you a copy of finding the work you're wired to do. Hannah, you're going to be fine because you're so proactive. You're going to be just fine.

[Caller]

That's the.

[Dave Ramsey]

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Jack is in Kansas City. Hi Jack, how are you?

[Caller]

Life's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good man. How can we help? Merry Christmas.

[Caller]

Merry Christmas. Thank you. So I'm a 76 year old retired electrician slash contractor that has found the lady that he'd like to marry. And I was married for 53 years.

Died, my wife passed away for the last five years. Didn't think this person would be there for me, but she is.

And that's kind of where we are. My children.

Now are becoming concerned about trust funds, prenup wheels, and all my children are followers of Dave Ramsey. And I said, well, do you ever listen to Dave? Where he says is, you're one. You don't need two checking accounts, you live together, you talk about important things like how we spend the money, church, God, those things.

So.

We'Ve had some hard feelings of things that have been said, mostly negative things about my fiance of.

Not supported. But in their minds and.

In my position, I go to her defense because it was unfounded and still unfounded. But you do background checks on people's name, and you find out there's a lot of people with the same name.

[George Kamel]

So am I hearing this correctly? Jack, let me summarize this for you. Your kids think your new fiance is a gold digger, and they want to protect their gold.

[Caller]

Old. That's absolutely right. A matter of fact, we had those.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long. How long have you known your fiance?

[Caller]

We have been talking for 12 months. We've been seeing each other for nine months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where did you meet her?

[Caller]

Online.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know I'm 65, and I've been married 43 years.

[Caller]

Years.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't imagine being in your shoes because I've not been there, but I can imagine maybe being there someday.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so what is your net worth?

[Caller]

I'm at.

Without property, I'm at 1.3.

[Dave Ramsey]

What about property?

[Caller]

There's another.

[George Kamel]

Mil.

[Caller]

Maybe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what is your fiance's net worth?

[Caller]

Less. I can't tell you the exact number.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, Well, I would want to know that if I were in your shoes. Here's what I would do. Okay. And you can do whatever you want to do. You're. You're obviously thinking through this. Clear. Sincerely. And.

Your children.

If their only motivation is to make sure that you are safe, I appreciate their motivation, even though I might disagree with their tactics and certainly disagree with them being insulting. Okay.

But if their motivation is to protect what they think is theirs and it's not theirs, well, that's just greed. And you lose your vote. You lose your ability to give input at that point. Okay. But people in my life that are close to me and that love me, if they have a concern for me, I have to say thank you for that, even if I disagree with it. Okay. So what would I do? Okay. So I've got a substantial net worth if Sharon passed away. And if I were in the exact same situation and I met someone that I didn't have a long history with and you don't.

And I would hire a company and do a full background check, and I would also tell her that I will pay for her to do the same thing on me. It's not an insult. It's. I want to know what's going on, and I want you to know what's going on. And you do need to know her entire net worth in detail. She needs to know yours. And you do need to have a shared checking account and share your incomes together towards your future. But I would do a prenup on existing assets.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just because it keeps the weirdness out. Okay. And.

It'S not because I'm afraid of this lady. I'm more worried anytime. The only time we recommend prenups at Ramsey is when there's a substantial difference and you've got a two or $3 million net worth and she doesn't. So there's a substantial difference there. And that can create weirdness if you don't have the clarity of a prenup. Okay, So I probably would do that. And then, you know. And that's not for your children's sake. It's for your sake.

[Caller]

Well, that's what they tell me, too. I mean, even though I get irritated, I know they're trying to protect me in the way that they do. Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Their tactics might be good, but their motivation. I mean, their motivation might be good, but their tactics suck. Is that fair?

[Caller]

Yeah. That's generous, I'd say.

[George Kamel]

What's the age difference, Jack, between you two?

[Caller]

We're the same age. It's very unusual. I'll tell you. She's younger at heart.

[George Kamel]

Or she looks younger.

[Caller]

Six.

No.

Well, she does look young. She is. Six months. We're both very active. We walk. We do. You know, I mean, it's like, very unusual.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you found a companion, and I think that's wonderful, and I want you to pursue it, but let's just do it. This is not puppy love. Let's just do it with some wisdom. And I would do a detailed background check, because you and I both have lived long enough. We've seen friends get scammed. Oh, yeah, and one of my good friends got scammed out of a couple million in a situation like this. It was crazy, but, yeah, it was wild. And I don't even smell that here because. And you know why? Because I trust you and your judgment. After talking to you, you've got a level of wisdom, and I think you've probably got a pretty good nose for stink. And I don't. And you don't smell any stink, so I don't think there is any. But I think it would lay everyone's head on a pillow. Carefully. Hers as well. Tell her, look, it costs 500 bucks to do a full, detailed private investigation background check. Here's 500 bucks. And I want you to hire this company to do a check on me. And I'm going to hire a company to do this check on you. And that way everybody will shut up. And let's do a prenup for the assets. And we're going to combine our incomes and live our lives in a combined manner. But the actual Assets that we both enter in with, we would leave with. And I think that's probably a smart thing and that'll give you both a lot of peace. And maybe I'm not really doing this for the kids. The kids can jump in a creek.

But I'm trying to give them a little bit of love, saying if their reason, their motivation is to protect you, that's okay. But also if you go to the point that you have to be a jerk about it, then that's obviously out of control. So anyway, that's what I would do. So. Good question. Very interesting.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, it's pretty neat to see that you can find love at that stage of life. And it's not a romance scam, which is a breath of fresh air today because we've seen so many of those where they go, well, I never actually met her and she asked for a bunch of money and I wired it over to her. That I can understand kids concern. This is.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a scam is why. Yeah, yeah.

[George Kamel]

But he's, he's clearly met her several times.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And she's of the same age, so it's not this like, you know, well, she's in her 40s and you know, she, she just likes me for me and my personality. The kids sniff that out. This is very different. So there's some really. I wish them well.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's some celebrity versions of that that are down. Right. Funny.

[George Kamel]

That's just frightening to see those age differences.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, I mean, it's, it's. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, we all know, we all know pop culture news. Yeah. But yeah, that's not what we're dealing with here and. Or doesn't sound like it is. So very interesting. Very interesting. Good discussion.

[George Kamel]

So in this case, protecting the assets is wise because you've. This is your entire life's work of building wealth, you know, building these assets up, which is different than I'm 25 and I want a prenup, cuz, you know, I feel like she's going to take me to the cleaners.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, yeah, that's.

[George Kamel]

This is very different.

[Dave Ramsey]

And again, there's a major difference in anytime. There's a big difference. You, One of you have substantial wealth and another one doesn't. Yeah. That's what I'm most worried about.

[George Kamel]

And I've heard you say it protects from the crazies, the outliers in the family they're going to come after, which.

[Dave Ramsey]

Apparently have shown up.

[George Kamel]

They're already here. Welcome.

[Dave Ramsey]

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On the debt free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Christopher is with us. Hi, Christopher. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing wonderful.

How about you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Where do you live?

[Caller]

Tucson, Arizona.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, beautiful. Well, welcome to Tennessee where it's cold right now.

[Caller]

It's a nice change of pace.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I guess. Good to have you and here to do a debt free scream. How much you paid off?

[Caller]

$104,500.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. I love it. And how long did that take you, sir?

[Caller]

It took me four years and four months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Love it, man. Your range of income during that time.

[Caller]

So I started around $30,000 and ramped it up to 70,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. What do you do for living?

[Caller]

I'm an accountant for a local government.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, very cool. And what kind of Debt was the 105?

[Caller]

My house.

Whoa.

[Dave Ramsey]

Looking at a weirdo. That's a low mortgage. Good for you. That's two of them in a row we've had like that. Yeah, I love it. What's this house worth?

[Caller]

It's, it's. I would probably say about 225,000 right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. It's paid for insures. How old are you?

[Caller]

30.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have a paid for house. Yeah, but millennials can't afford to buy a house. Host George. Look at this guy. He didn't just buy a house, he owns the house. Shut up. Way to go, Christopher. I love it. All right, tell me the story. Four years, four months ago, what made you decide? I'm 26. By the time I'm 30, I'm gonna have my house paid off.

[Caller]

So I started working and part of it was the Smart dollar. They offered $20 off every week for my insurance. Insurance if I went through it, and so I did it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your, your governmental agency brought Bought Smart Dollar in?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. What's the agency, what is it?

[Caller]

Pima County Government.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah. Well, thank you, Pima county government. I love it. For those of you don't know what we're talking about, Smart Dollar is our class on how to handle money. It's like Financial Peace University but it's taught as an HR benefit in corporate America and sometimes in county government. Look at that. So they bought it for all the employees and said, if you go through it, we'll give you $20 off your insurance every week.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Boom.

[George Kamel]

Every week.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's quite 80 bucks a month right there.

[Caller]

Or every. Yeah, yeah, every paycheck. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Wow. Okay, so two paychecks a month. Okay.

[George Kamel]

So did a bunch of people do this?

[Caller]

I don't know.

[George Kamel]

You guys don't talk. It's not like a, you know, my, all my co workers.

[Caller]

I encourage my co workers to do. I was like, you know, it's 20 bucks, go for it.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, well, you're the poster.

[Caller]

What's there to lose?

[George Kamel]

You have no mortgage. They must be looking at you like, who is this guy?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, after an employer that furnishes this and then the result is their, their team members pay off their home at 30 years old, I mean, that's called an HR benefit. That's pretty cool. So I'm proud of our small dollar team and I'm proud of Pima county and I'm proud of you. Everybody gets a proud of your man. This is pretty awesomeness. Very cool. How's it feel? Be 30 years old, have a freaky pay for house.

[Caller]

It feels great. Like when I first started I was like, oh, it's going to be 40 and then it's going to be 35. And then I made it my goal to pay it off by the age of 30 and I did it and I am so happy it's gone. Every month at the start of the month, nothing's coming out.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's so weird.

[Caller]

You don't have any bills, electric, you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Know, I mean, you just eat, buy a little electricity and a little food and life is good.

[Caller]

It's, it's so nice.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are seriously a low maintenance dude now. That's amazing. I'm so, that's so cool, man. I take it you're single?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Very cool. And extremely eligible at this point, ladies. I'm just saying. Wow. Pretty stinking cool. All right, now you've been at this and you're making 30 to $70,000 a year during this, during this journey.

[Caller]

So I started working at the library. And of course at the library you can get free. So I was like, hey, you know, as part of the, the course to supplement, I'm going to go check out those books, free, read them. And it kind of just got me started and used the proximity principle. Like the job that I have now. I Sort of just used that and got. Got the job that I have now. And it's been wonderful because I love the job. And it's so much easier paying off debt when you go to a job that you absolutely love.

[Dave Ramsey]

It does. That's very true. But the bottom line is, I mean, you were not making $400,000 a year.

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're making 30 to 70 and you still go and pay off your home by the time you're 30. What do you think the secret to that is?

[Caller]

The secret is just to have a goal and know what you know, what's in store for you. Like listening to the other debt free screen. Like people are like, you can't buy a house when you're 30. Like people think that it's unaffordable, but it really is not. You have to have a goal in mind. You have to know what you want to do instead of doordashing or you know, going to all these different Taylor Swift concerts or whatever. So.

[George Kamel]

And you bought a very reasonable house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Most people go key to being debt free by the time you're 30. Avoid Taylor Swift concerts.

[George Kamel]

Not the worst wealth building hack I've heard.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think that's one I can abide by. I'll go with that one.

[George Kamel]

You invest that ticket price in a good growth stock mutual fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

Seriously. And you'll be a millionaire. Wow. Shortly. Yeah. Wow, man. So the house you said is worth two and a quarter?

[Caller]

Approximately, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Tucson is a nice place. I've been there a couple times. Does that buy a pretty good house in Tucson?

[Caller]

It's a two bedroom, two bathroom, It's.

[Dave Ramsey]

A condominium, a condo. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

So all right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how long have you owned it?

[Caller]

I. About four and a half years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you bought it and then immediately started on this?

[Caller]

Yeah, a little bit after.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much has it gone up in value in that five years?

[Caller]

50.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is almost doubled.

[Caller]

$50,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh no, no, it's gone up 25% in that period of time.

[Caller]

Yeah, roughly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So great investment then. Yeah, yeah. That's very cool. Good, good for you, man. Who was encouraging you along the way?

[Caller]

You know, I do have a coworker who also has a paid for house. He's in his probably early, early 40s. And also my dad, he paid off his house early and I, you know, I grew up listening to this show kind of on the radio. Maybe not all the time, but you know, it kind of got the gears turning and, and when it came time it's like, you know, why not, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

What do you have to lose?

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you bring your dad with you? Yeah.

[Caller]

Because he's a little camera shy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's fine. He doesn't have to jump in, but. But he ought to be here and be proud of you. That's good. I'm glad he's here cheering for you. That's neat to have your dad do that. Very good. Proud of you, man. Good work, good work, good work. All right, so let's just reiterate, it's really important for you employers out there to not miss this. I don't know. We've got major companies like U Haul and Costco and others that have got all their employees going through Smart Dollar, but we also got a lot of police departments, and this is a county. I didn't even know this county was doing this. But we've got all kinds of different organizations that are taking and paying for their employees to go through these courses. And. And it's very easy to implement. We've got it really dialed in. It's a quality product. I'm proud of the product, and obviously I'm proud the ROI is the results are standing in front of us. I mean, hello. That's awesome. And so if you're an employer and you could have an employee end up like Christopher standing here, that'd be something to do. Smart Dollar, it's called. You can check it out at Ramsey Solutions, and our team will get in touch with you and help you if you're an employer. So there's my advertisement. But just the same, Christopher, you're the walking billboard, buddy. So good stuff, man. Good stuff. So what's the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate the fact that you don't have any freaking debt?

[Caller]

Well, first of all, I came here, but I have an old car. It's an 03. I've been driving it since high school, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you need a car. Your car is a piece of crap.

[George Kamel]

What's the next car? Do you have it in mind?

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you. What are you going to buy? I.

[Caller]

It's still up in the air.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

I need to figure out what's in my budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, you don't have a house payment, so you can stack the cash, right?

[Caller]

Yes, it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

It's. It's stacking so much faster now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You'll be able to buy a car any minute. Good for you. Well, that's fun. Yeah. Get you a good car. That's a good idea. I like that. You've earned it and you've been Conservative. And you've taken your time and man, that's impressive. Very good job. All right, ladies and gentlemen, Christopher from Tucson, Arizona. $105,000 paid off. That would be his house and everything in four years and four months making 30,000 to 70,000 a year and he's 100% debt free house and everything at 30 years and. Shut up, you whiners. This guy dropped, dropped a mic on you people out there. Well done, Christopher. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Caller]

Three, two, one. I'm debt free.

Boom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man.

[Caller]

Boom.

[George Kamel]

This is this entire show.

[Dave Ramsey]

30 year old mortgages. 30 year old people with their mortgages paid off on the air. On this show today.

[George Kamel]

Reasonable, reasonable mortgages.

[Dave Ramsey]

We had the answer to the affordability crisis in America.

[George Kamel]

Oh, we solved.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Winning at money is 80% behavior and 20% head knowledge. What to do isn't the problem. Doing it is. In her brand new book, what no one tells you about money, Jade Warshaw dives deep into the reasons you've been skipping stuck. This book exposes the real emotional fight with money and shows you how to win that battle. Pre order now for $24.99 and you'll get over $100 of free bonus items. Get your copy today at ramseysolutions.com store.

Our scripture of the day, Psalm 27. For one thing I ask of the Lord. This is what I seek. That I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and to seek him in his temple. George Carlin said, some people see things that are and ask why. Some people dream of things that never were and ask why not? Some people have to go to work and don't have time for all that.

[Caller]

That's good.

[George Kamel]

I was like, this has got to be taking a turn somewhere.

[Dave Ramsey]

Come on, George Carlin. We know George Carlin's gonna turn somewhere there. All right. Hey, buying or selling a home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what is really happening in the housing market. We'll help you with that. It's moving, by the way. You don't want to miss this. It's kind of quiet. But there's this little revolution of brewing, and we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices held steady around 424,000 right now. And in October, about one in five homes saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more Room this winter Christmas time is a great time to buy a house, by the way. Not a lot of buyers out there bumping around. Mortgage rates dipped down to four or five and a half now. So you learn all about this by going to Ramsay.

Or click the link in the show notes. We'll help you with your real estate decision making. Yep. Walk you through the whole thing. Travis is with us in San Jose. Hi, Travis. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing good. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I travel for work and you know, when I first started, I had a little bit of debt. That's why I started traveling for. And my truck broke. I had to get a new one with the bad credit already. And so anyways, I paid off the. I had 20 grand credit card debt, paid that off. But now I have the high interest truck with high mileage. And so I'm just wondering what you guys would think on. Should I pay off the truck and then just ride it out until it breaks and then get a new one again? Because I'm gonna. It's pretty bad, but it'll do until now. Or should I just.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you owe on it?

[Caller]

I owe 25.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller]

1800 a week. Take home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How quick can you pay the truck off?

[Caller]

They got school coming up, so probably like March, March or April to be paid off.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you can pay it off in like six months? Yeah, I would pay it off.

[Caller]

Yeah. The thing is, is that the head gasket's blown and the transmission like flip and it's kind of like. The other thing is I live in it. I travel for work, so I live in the truck. And so I kind of always need it. So it's like a predicament of ride it. And if it breaks, then I lose more equity on trading it in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or you don't have equity because whatever you drive, you're destroying its value. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

You've exped the depreciation, so you're way underwater.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're.

[Caller]

You're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're going to. You really have. Whatever you drive is. You're destroying it and that's a cost of doing business.

So you want to destroy the least expensive thing that will get the job done. Now get the job done means you live in it. It's got to have some comfort and get the job done means to be reliable. But other than that, you don't need a truck. I mean, you don't need to spend money on it. All you need is reliable and comfortable. That's you don't need to be impressive. If you. If you buy a hundred thousand dollar truck, you're going to destroy it. If you buy a $30,000 truck, you're going to destroy it. If you buy a $20,000 truck, you're going to destroy it.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So why not destroy the cheapest thing possible as a part of doing business? Agreed.

[Caller]

No, that makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So fix the head gasket and the transmission driver's thing.

[George Kamel]

I think Travis just wants a new truck. Can we admit that?

[Caller]

Okay, don't get me wrong. I do it. But the interest. Interest rate.

16.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're gonna pay it off in six months. It's an irrelevant interest rate.

[George Kamel]

If you were hanging onto it for a decade, you'd have a point. But I think you're just jonesing for a nicer, newer truck. And the real solution here is to pay it off. Because right now. Here's the thing. You're probably underwater by 8 or 10 grand, right?

[Caller]

Well, I sold 25 on it.

[George Kamel]

You owe 25. But what's it worth? 15. 17.

[Caller]

Well, it has 430,000 on it. That's part that. 430,000 miles on it.

[George Kamel]

So it's worth jack squat.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Do you understand what I'm saying? You're so far underwater that if you sold it, you'd have to cover the difference. So you're better off putting a new transmission in it and eating that 8 grand versus spending 15 to get out of the difference.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're underwater. And let's get this thing paid off. Get it paid off, and then I want you to save up and pay cash for whatever you move into.

[Caller]

Well, that was the whole point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so.

Fix this one and drive it and get it paid off, and then save up and pay cash for whatever you move up to. And move up to the minimal truck that will has reasonable comfort and reasonable reliability. Because whatever you drive, you are destroying its value. You have driven this thing into the dirt and you have to drive it all the way into the dirt now, because you trapped yourself, you got screwed. Because you got impulsive and bought a truck at 16% and they screwed.

[George Kamel]

So next time, walk in with a check with the actual amount you have saved up and no more. Because that dealership will talk you into a nicer truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do not take on debt again for a truck that you're going to destroy. Don't do it. So, yeah, I'd clean this mess up and then I'd save up and move up from there. And that probably means you're almost A year from buying a better truck. And because you got to get this one paid off and then you got to save up for the next one.

[George Kamel]

You got a great income. It'll happen faster than before, Tank.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what I would do if I were in your shoes. You got to break the cycle of this because otherwise it's going to break you. Kimberly's in Charlotte. Hey, Kimberly, how are you?

[Caller]

Good, how are you? Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So about six years ago, I got divorced. In that divorce, we had one daughter and I have her full time.

Her biological father is not in the picture. He's not a safe person to be around. And we get about $150.

For child support a month.

It does really not anything for us. And so since she was born and I started getting those child support payments because I had to leave when I was pregnant.

I've been putting that money into a savings account. And at first I put enough to have like a money market account because at the time that was the highest interest rate. And then I moved it into a cd. So currently I'm saving that money for when she goes to college or when.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is in the account?

[Caller]

About 13,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What I would do is jump [e-mail] and click on SmartVestor Pro and open up a 529 and a good mutual fund. Move the 13 into there and then add to it periodically when you have some more money come in and that'll give you a much better rate of return and it grows tax free.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

How old is she?

[Caller]

She's six.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a mutual fund and a 529 plan. 529 means it grows tax free and it has to be used for college or education of some kind. Kind. And so.

Go ahead.

[Caller]

Sorry, Go ahead.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's it.

[Caller]

I mean.

So with the 529 plan, I've heard that they have to use it for college or it gets rolled over into like a retirement account.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would not do that. You can do that. But instead they need to use it for college, which is what you just said. You were saving it for her college.

[George Kamel]

And it's a wide variety of expenses connected to education. And so.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

She could do code school. She could do a lot of different things at school. And she's going to need some kind of school.

[Caller]

Okay. It's just based off of rust, rough estimates. I was imagining she would end up with like 36,000 in.

[Dave Ramsey]

She should have more.

[George Kamel]

No, I'm, I'm. I just crunched the numbers for you. At this rate, from 6 to 18, you end up invest it wisely into those mutual funds we talked about. Even with just your 150amonth, you'd have like 90,000 plus. And that's if you didn't add any more.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that's because you're going to be earning more than you're earning now.

[George Kamel]

That's an 11 return instead of a savings account making three or three and a half. That's the difference with compound growth over those 12 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, click. Just click [e-mail] and click on SmartVestor Pro. And by the way, Kimberly, there's no moral or ethical reason that you have to put the child support aside. You're allowed to use it to support the child if you need to. But if you want to keep investing it, that's the way you can do it. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Caller]

Sam.