Delayed Gratification Is a Key Ingredient to Building Wealth

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show Episode: Delayed Gratification Is a Key Ingredient to Building Wealth
Release Date: December 16, 2024
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: Ken Coleman

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Overview

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey and co-host Ken Coleman delve into the crucial role of delayed gratification in building and sustaining wealth. Through engaging conversations with callers, they explore various financial dilemmas, offering practical advice grounded in Ramsey's proven financial principles. The episode emphasizes the importance of making informed financial decisions, prioritizing debt repayment, and exercising restraint in spending to achieve long-term financial stability.

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1. Assessing the Purchase of a High-Value Supercar

[00:51] Ken Coleman:
Ken Coleman initiates the discussion by expressing his aspiration to purchase a used Lamborghini Huracan valued at approximately $250,000. He shares his financial standing, including a net worth of $3.66 million and an annual income of $300,000.

Dave Ramsey's Analysis:

• Affordability Check:
  Ramsey evaluates whether Ken can afford the car by applying his rule of thumb: expenditures on motors or wheels should not exceed half of one's annual income. Ken's intended purchase surpasses this threshold, raising concerns.

• Depreciation Consideration:
  Ramsey highlights that luxury cars depreciate rapidly, often losing significant value within the first ten years. He states, "The good news is most of the loss is gone. The first 10 years, you're going to lose the most of it." [04:13]

• Emotional vs. Practical Decision-Making:
  Ramsey emphasizes the importance of purchasing for personal satisfaction rather than external approval. "If you’re buying it to impress other people, that’s a dangerous sign." [05:46]

Conclusion:
While Ken can afford the car without financial ruin, Dave Ramsey advises caution, stressing that such a purchase may not align with long-term wealth-building strategies.

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2. Managing Loans Against Whole Life Insurance Policies

[10:03] Ken Coleman:
Ken seeks advice regarding loans taken against his parents' whole life insurance policies used to fund a family business. With $600,000 borrowed against a $1.4 million policy and a remaining cash value of $200,000, Ken is uncertain whether to pay down these loans.

Dave Ramsey's Recommendation:

• Policy Cancellation:
  Ramsey advises canceling the whole life policies to eliminate debt, stating, "I would cancel the whole life policies completely, cash them out and end it." [14:30]

• Assessing Financial Impact:
  He points out that the remaining death benefit may not provide sufficient support after accounting for the loans, especially if one parent were to pass away.
  "Unless someone is terminally ill... I'm not going to fool with that." [16:47]

Conclusion:
Ramsey recommends ending the policies to avoid ongoing debt obligations, ensuring financial clarity and reducing emotional entanglements in the family business.

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3. Deciding to Pursue a Nurse Practitioner License vs. Starting a Family

[20:56] Caller Taylor from Fort Worth:
Taylor contemplates returning to school for a nurse practitioner license versus starting a family. She fears that educational commitments may delay family planning and lead to regrets.

Dave Ramsey's Advice:

• Prioritizing Financial Stability:
  Ramsey underscores the importance of paying cash for education to avoid debt, enabling flexibility in future family planning.
  "If you don't go into debt, then there's no regret." [22:28]

• Life's Uncertainties:
  Emphasizes that unforeseen life events, such as the timing of having children, are unpredictable.
  "You don't have any control over that." [23:00]

• Commitment to Priorities:
  Encourages couples to decide jointly on their priorities—whether to focus on career advancement or starting a family first.

Conclusion:
Ramsey advises Taylor to proceed with her educational goals without incurring debt, facilitating future family planning without financial burdens.

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4. Saving for a Down Payment: High-Yield Savings vs. Other Investments

[26:07] Caller Devin from Raleigh, North Carolina:
Devin and his spouse have recently paid off their debts and are now saving for a down payment. He seeks advice on whether to place his savings in a traditional savings account or opt for a high-yield savings account.

Dave Ramsey's Guidance:

• High-Yield Savings Recommendation:
  Ramsey affirms that parking savings in a high-yield savings account is appropriate, as the primary goal is to accumulate funds rather than generate significant interest.
  "Your secret sauce to having a down payment, not the investment is your saving." [26:54]

• Minimizing Investment Risks:
  He explains that the interest earned from high-yield savings is negligible compared to the importance of having liquid funds for a down payment.
  "The hundred is what changes the house you buy." [27:37]

Conclusion:
Ramsey recommends using a high-yield savings account for the down payment, prioritizing liquidity and stability over potential gains from other investments.

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5. Advising a Daughter Uncertain About Post-High School Plans

[31:28] Caller Kate from Maryland:
Kate seeks guidance on assisting her high school junior daughter, who is undecided about her future—whether to pursue college or gain real-world experience, particularly in business ownership.

Dave Ramsey and Ken Coleman's Approach:

• Exploration of Interests:
  Ramsey advises identifying the daughter's areas of interest and encouraging her to shadow professionals in those fields to gain practical experience.
  "If this were my daughter, I would have her shadow people in those industries." [34:04]

• Realistic Business Perspective:
  Ramsey cautions against entering business without proper education and passion, highlighting the challenges and complexities of entrepreneurship.
  "Business is very hard. People need to understand it's not romantic." [36:49]

• Educational Foundation:
  Emphasizes the value of a business-related degree to equip her with essential skills such as accounting, marketing, and strategic thinking before venturing into business ownership.

Conclusion:
Ramsey and Coleman recommend a balanced approach—exploring interests through practical experiences while obtaining a solid educational foundation to prepare for potential future business endeavors.

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6. Planning for Retirement at Age 56

[53:52] Caller Mary on Facebook:
Mary, aged 56, inquires about how much she should have saved for retirement by her age to ensure financial security.

Dave Ramsey's Response:

• Flexible Retirement Goals:
  Ramsey dismisses rigid benchmarks, emphasizing personalized retirement goals based on the ability to live off 8% of one’s nest egg.
  "If you can live off of 8% of your nest egg and it's invested at 12%, you'll be fine." [29:34]

• Focus on Savings Rate Over Specific Amounts:
  He encourages targeting a savings rate (15% of household income) rather than adhering to a specific savings figure by a certain age.

Conclusion:
Ramsey advises Mary to focus on consistently saving and investing 15% of her household income towards retirement, ensuring a sustainable financial future regardless of current savings levels.

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7. Guidance for a New College Graduate with a High-Paying Job

[74:18] Caller Nicholas from Washington D.C.:
Nicholas, recently graduated with a Computer Science degree, has secured a $130,000 job offer. He seeks advice on structuring his income, managing debt, and deciding on a suitable living arrangement given the high cost of housing in his area.

Dave Ramsey's Recommendations:

• Debt Repayment Focus:
  Prioritize paying off existing $30,000 debt before maximizing retirement contributions.
  "You need to dump everything you got on the 30k until you get rid of it." [76:51]

• Affordable Housing:
  Advise allocating no more than a quarter of take-home pay to rent, suggesting shared housing or accommodations further from high-cost areas to manage living expenses effectively.
  "You may want to get a two-bedroom, get a roommate, or live a little bit further out." [76:42]

• Emergency Fund Establishment:
  Build a robust emergency fund of three to six months' expenses to ensure financial security.
  "After that I'd start putting 15% of my income away towards retirement." [77:44]

Conclusion:
Ramsey encourages Nicholas to manage his living expenses judiciously, prioritize debt repayment, and gradually build his retirement savings to secure his financial independence.

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8. Handling Business Bonuses During Debt Repayment

[78:33] Caller Nick from West Palm Beach:
Nick, running a party and event rental company, has managed to pay off a significant portion of his $70,000 debt and is deliberating whether to distribute Christmas bonuses to his employees amidst ongoing debt elimination.

Dave Ramsey's Advice:

• Maintain Employee Morale:
  Ramsey advises paying out the bonuses if financially feasible, as withholding them could harm employee trust and morale.
  "If you have the money, I think part of running your business is a small Christmas bonus." [82:08]

• Financial Prioritization:
  He emphasizes that since Nick has the funds to cover both debt and bonuses without jeopardizing his financial plan, distributing bonuses aligns with maintaining good employer-employee relationships.

Conclusion:
Ramsey supports Nick in distributing the Christmas bonuses, highlighting that financial stability allows for such acts of generosity without derailing debt repayment efforts.

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9. Navigating Marital Strains and Financial Implications

[53:56] Caller Jan from Tampa:
Jan, aged 65, discusses the strains in her 41-year marriage, leading to living separately and concerns about dividing investment accounts and potential divorce.

Dave Ramsey's Guidance:

• Marriage Counseling and Decision Making:
  Ramsey urges Jan to prioritize her marriage by seeking counseling and openly communicating with her spouse about their commitment and financial plans.
  "You have to decide if you're going to be married, and then decide." [68:29]

• Financial Planning for Divorce:
  Advises Jan to assess and organize her financial assets, prepare for equitable distribution, and consult with a divorce attorney to understand her financial rights and obligations.
  "Add it all up and start talking to a divorce attorney." [70:38]

Conclusion:
Ramsey emphasizes the importance of addressing marital issues proactively through counseling and financial preparedness, ensuring that both personal and financial aspects are managed thoughtfully and responsibly.

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10. Strategic Financial Planning for Business Owners

[81:07] Caller Ken Coleman from Raleigh:
Ken, running his own business, faces a dilemma regarding paying Christmas bonuses to employees while continuing to eliminate business-related debt.

Dave Ramsey's Advice:

• Financial Clarity and Prioritization:
  Ramsey reassures Ken that since he has the liquidity to pay the bonuses without compromising debt repayment, he should proceed with the bonuses to maintain employee satisfaction.
  "You have the money, you'll lose them. If you have the money, it's not gonna kill you." [82:10]

• Timeliness in Communication:
  Highlights the importance of timely communication with employees to manage expectations and uphold trust within the team.

Conclusion:
Ramsey encourages Ken to use available funds to reward his employees, reinforcing the value of maintaining strong employer-employee relationships while adhering to financial discipline.

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Key Takeaways

1. Delayed Gratification:
   Prioritizing long-term financial goals over immediate desires leads to sustained wealth accumulation. Instances like purchasing high-value luxury items or making significant financial decisions without thorough assessment highlight the necessity of restraint and strategic planning.

2. Debt Repayment:
   Eliminating debt is foundational to financial stability. Whether it’s personal loans, business debts, or credit card balances, Ramsey consistently advocates for aggressive debt repayment strategies before diverting funds to investments or discretionary spending.

3. Financial Planning and Budgeting:
   Creating detailed, written financial plans ensures that every dollar is allocated effectively, reducing anxiety and empowering individuals to control their financial destinies. Utilizing tools like high-yield savings accounts for specific goals and prioritizing retirement savings are integral components of this strategy.

4. Investment Strategies:
   Building a robust retirement fund through consistent savings and wise investment choices is essential. Ramsey emphasizes the importance of understanding investment vehicles, such as 401(k)s and Roth IRAs, to maximize returns and secure financial futures.

5. Personal and Business Financial Management:
   Effective financial management extends beyond personal finances into business operations. Maintaining liquidity, rewarding employees, and balancing debt repayment with business growth are critical for entrepreneurial success.

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Notable Quotes

• Dave Ramsey on Luxury Purchases:
  "If you’re buying it to impress other people, that’s a dangerous sign." [05:46]

• On Depreciation of Assets:
  "The good news is most of the loss is gone. The first 10 years, you're going to lose the most of it." [04:13]

• On Education vs. Family Planning:
  "If you don’t go into debt, then there’s no regret." [22:28]

• On Retirement Savings:
  "If you can live off of 8% of your nest egg and it's invested at 12%, you'll be fine." [29:34]

• On Debt Repayment:
  "You need to dump everything you got on the 30k until you get rid of it." [76:51]

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Conclusion

This episode of The Ramsey Show effectively underscores the importance of delayed gratification in the journey toward building and maintaining wealth. Through diverse real-life scenarios, Ramsey and Coleman provide actionable advice that aligns with their financial philosophy, empowering listeners to make informed decisions that foster long-term financial health and prosperity.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey, personality number one, best selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose is my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Leon is with us in San Francisco. Hi Leon, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, Dave. How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

So I've been fortunate enough to math some money over the years through just working and some very nicely timed company acquisitions. And now I would like to make one of my childhood dreams come true. I like to buy a supercar that's worth about $250,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Ken Coleman]

Which car specifically? The Lamborghini Huracan. A used one.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a beast. Yeah, used one. 250, you're right. News. What? 450?

[Ken Coleman]

I think so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. So what year model would that be?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, looking on some of these websites, anywhere from a 2015 to 2017. 2018.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so a 10 year old has lost 200,000 in value. Yeah. Yes, that's about right. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your net worth? You sound like you're a bazillionaire or something.

[Ken Coleman]

My net worth, so I can break this down. I have a net worth include, if you include the mortgage, about $3.66 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you make in a year?

[Ken Coleman]

I make about $300,000 a year, which doesn't include a 30% bonus. It's a single income. I am married with a one year old child, but my wife is a stay at home mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how old are you?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm 39 and she is 41.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. You can afford the car if you want it. The thing is, here's how I, here's how I look at these, here's how I decide this. And, and I answer questions on this show like what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? That's how I answer questions. Okay. You said you're how old?

[Ken Coleman]

39.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. Well, you've done really well. Congratulations.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a couple, couple of rules of thumb. You, generally speaking, you do not want to own all the things you have with motors or wheels to be more than about half your annual income. Now your income is a little wacky because you've made big chunks of money doing a few deals here or there that don't really include your 300. So this violates that you Know what I'm saying? It's more than half your annual income. So that's one rule I look at. It's not a hard and fast rule. The second thing is the main thing I do today. If Sharon and I are doing something that feels kind of like a weird large purchase that's strangely or even a large amount of money, we're giving away in generosity. The same thing we use, the burn the money in the middle of the floor thing. If I took this much money and set fire to it, does my life change? If the answer is yes, then it's too expensive.

[Ken Coleman]

I see.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you could lose 8% of your net worth 250 as a percentage of 3.8 million and probably not miss it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because the 250 is going to be worth 150 in 20 minutes. You know that. I mean, we already established 450 turned into 250, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's going to go down in value. And the bigger it is, the faster it's going to go. I mean, the good news is most of the loss is gone. The 10 first 10 years, you're going to lose the most of it. And don't get caught up in the illusion it's going to go up in value. They're not. They're going to go down in value. And let me just tell you, the new ones are better. They don't make them like they used to. Thank God I got a 1960 Corvette frame up restoration. Compared to the new Corvette, it's a piece of crap. I mean, compared, it's a beautiful little antique car. But thank God they don't make them like that anymore. We have like brakes that work and power steering and all kinds of modern conveniences now, you know, and so, you know, it's so number one. Can I. If I burn the money in the middle of the floor, does it. Does it affect my children, my grandchildren, my wife? No, it doesn't. You can, you can do. You can afford the car. I think you can afford the car. Then the last thing I do, Leon, is I ask myself some contentment questions, particularly about cars. Because I'm a car nut. If no one ever sees this car and only I see it and enjoy it, do I still want it for me, if I'm driving that car? The answer is yes. Because I don't give a crap what you think. I'm going to enjoy that freaking fine piece of machinery. Right? But if you're buying it to impress other people, that's a dangerous sign. Spiritually. Agreed.

[Ken Coleman]

Agreed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Leon I.

[Caller]

Two quick questions. Is there anything you haven't told us that we should know?

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, I do have the mortgage which is, you know, it's in California and it is a sizable mortgage of about $739,000 at 6.74%, but the house itself is worth about $1.9 million.

[Caller]

All right, and then my second question is, how much cash do you have total?

[Ken Coleman]

So out of, out of my what? I stated the net worth about 2.1 million is in brokerage and index fund that follows large mid cap US market. And then about 150k is liquid mixed between check and savings. About $510,000 in my 401k, about 500k in my wife's 401k. And so that's liquid and then about 500k in company RSUs which are vesting in approximately 1/3 every year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Before we buy toys, we grow up and pay off the mortgage. So you need to pay off the mortgage too. You got the money in brokerage, pay it off. You got the money in brokerage to, to buy this car and you're still fine. And you've still got the exact same net worth when we're done with this discussion. So until the car goes down in value and then that's what I was.

[Caller]

Wondering in this current situation, I would say no. I just, I wouldn't do it personally. I'd want to have the house cleared.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I pay off the house.

[Caller]

I know, I know, but I don't know. I'm, I'm, I can't believe I'm actually saying you're a little bit more conservative than you as I love cars. But I, I just, when you walk through that, I personally put myself in the. What would I do if I were him? And I don't think I'd spring for that car at that price right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fair.

[Caller]

But you laid it out.

[Dave Ramsey]

He can do it, he can afford it and it's not going to ruin him. I mean, if you call me up and you tell me you make $300,000 a year and I dreamed about it since I was a child, I'll kiss my butt. You know, I'm gonna. And you know I got no money and I'm going to go get a car loan to buy that. No, I'm going to rip you to shreds. No, that'd be dumb. Okay. For your own sake, because I love you. But. Yeah, yeah, but I mean. Yeah, really, that's so. I honestly, it doesn't make the sale to me because I've had to quit doing that myself.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of I always wanted that since I was a child, you know that that's not justification for spending money you don't have when so go make some money, you know. But, but if you have the money and it's just something you want, then.

[Caller]

Yeah, go for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean it's, it's not the end of the world but that, that's the trick. Well done. Well done. Well done. This is the Ramsey Show. One of the questions I get all the time is which life insurance company should I use for my term life policy? A valid question since hundreds of companies out there with rates all over the place and riders and add ons that are simply a waste of money. You need to get this done and make the right decision. That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 25 years is Zander Insurance. Zander is a broker who shops the top term life companies for you and finds the best rates available from the only plans I recommend. They also save you time. Whether you want to work online over the phone or via text. Their team will cater to your needs and help you make the right decision. This is an absolute necessity and Zander has made the process easy and convenient. Call them at 800-356-4282 or visit zander.com for instant online quotes. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Thank you for joining us. Merry Christmas America. We're glad you're with us. Robert is in New Jersey. Hey Robert, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm calling to talk about your favorite financial instrument, the whole life insurance policies. I have a question about policies that my parents bought years and years ago and hopefully you can help me figure out what to do with these things. So long story short, me and my family, me, my parents and my brother opened a small business about five or six years ago. When we did, we borrowed money against my parents whole life insurance policies to help fund the real estate purchase and construction. It's a dog daycare, boarding and green facility. Been open five years, doing well, profitable, growing. It's in good shape. The first two years we didn't make any payments on those loans. So the, you know, grew as I capitalized the interest. Then I started making monthly payments on those loans from money that we were making in the business once we became, you know, fairly profitable. So here's my question. These loans, they, there's six total loans, excuse me, six total policies that my parents took out. So $1.4 million in face value insurance plus the additional insurance they purchased over the years as they were. I think they made some overpayments in the past, things like that. I have borrowed about $600,000 against the policy. So here's my question.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the remaining cash value?

[Ken Coleman]

The remaining. The net cash value as of today is about 200,000. And the death benefit as of today and all of them combined is about 1.06 million. Okay, my question is, do I bother paying these loans down? And if I do, do I use your snowball effect and go for the lowest balance loans first or do I pay them off all evenly? Because technically they all have the same interest rate. It's basically like one large basket. Right. So am I even benefiting from the snowball considering there's no minimum payments on these things? Right. I can pay them at any time, any way I want. I could make the payment. I could not let the interest capitalize. You know, you can manage them any way you like. So what do I do with them? Should I pay them? Should I not?

[Dave Ramsey]

Your parents don't need the actual life insurance.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I mean, look, they took these out thinking hey, one day.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, what I'm asking is, is that if your dad died today, your mom's not going to get much money because the loans, the loans are repaid from the death benefit.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well when you take. Yeah, correct. When you. So when you. The total value.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you have a face value of 1.4 and you have loans of 600, you're. They currently have $800,000 in proceeds would come to your mom if your dad died.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, there's also an extra 200,000. They also over the years purchase an extra 200,000 of insurance by overpayments. So it's paid.

[Dave Ramsey]

Paid up additionally.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, paid up additions. Yeah. So they actually have $1 million in death benefit. But yet. You are right though, by the way. My parents. So they have an interest in our small business. They have income through that. That's actually my second job. I have another job where I have. I'm a trader. I flip the syndicate market. You know, I trade IPOs. I borrowed money from my parents to see that as well and gave them a percentage of what I make off of that. So basically my parents had income, other wealth. Yes. How much? So I'm going to be honest and I don't have total transparency, but I'm going to say all in. They probably have assets of about a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Million and a half dollars in addition to all this. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And the income, even though they are retired, they have income from two businesses that I run that they have interest in. So they. You're right. Without those life insurance, they would still be financially safe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. Well, I don't think you guys are going to do what I would do because you're so far afield and your parents are so heavily emotionally invested in this process that I don't think there's a snowballs chance that you guys are actually going to do this. But you asked, so I'll tell you, I owe you that. What would I do? I would cancel the whole life policies completely, cash them out and end it.

[Ken Coleman]

I had a funny feeling you'd say that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I would just end it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because your mom is going to be fine. And if they want to, if they want you to execute a note for 600,000 back to them, then you would owe them that money because you've reduced the amount they're going to get from the cancellation of the policies by the loan you've taken out. So you know, they either need to get equity in the business and, or more equity.

[Ken Coleman]

They do have equity. They have.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but does that offset the loan? No, you're still paying on the loan.

[Ken Coleman]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

No, you're right, you're right. Well, let me ask you this just because you, you definitely understand these instruments better than I do. Right. So say I was to cancel these policies today.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're not yours. You can't. Your parents can cancel them today.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you're right. They will put it this way. They basically, I've been managing their finances for them other than some just assets that they own that somebody else has and it helps them out with because they're both kind of, frankly, you know, they're, they're a little older and both a little bit unwell. Say. So they basically asked me what to do with these things and do, you know, they pick my advice and trust me and I, I don't want to put them in the wrong direction here, you know. Okay, but, but say, say that I, I advise them, say you should close these things down today. Right. So they do that. They get out of it what, the net cash value that's left at that $190,000 to get a check for that 190.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

And then they have the 600 that is owed to them from the start of our. And. And that's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it.

[Ken Coleman]

Right, right. Okay. And.

[Dave Ramsey]

But they got rid of all the expenses and you're not paying interest on your own money.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay, that all makes sense. The only, the only counter I'd have that if you to help convince me here, Dave, is. So there is say that they were to pass away soon, unfortunately, right. I mean, my parents, to be frank, they're, you know, they're elderly. There's just over a million dollars of death benefit left over after accounting for the loans, right?

[Caller]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

How come?

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you got a million four in death benefit. Minus 600.

[Ken Coleman]

No. Well, it's a million. Don't forget million four plus the other 200 and what do they call paid up addition? Okay, one point.

[Dave Ramsey]

One point six. Minus eight. Yeah. All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, minus six. Yeah. So it's a million. I looked at the statements and the death benefit amount for each one of these things added together is just over a million. So why walk away from that payout.

[Dave Ramsey]

For taking if they're terminally ill and got a year to live? If you want to play that gamble on your parents death game, you can. I'm personally not doing that. And I don't think they are. I don't think they're one year from grave. We, I may be one year from grave, I don't know. But, but, but the, you know, you guys are paying so much in such extreme costs and have for so long on these ridiculous things that the last thing I'm gonna do is keep giving these people money. Um, I just couldn't do it. And so, but again, if someone's terminally ill, that's on one of these policies and you think they're, you know, you think they got a one year, as my grandpa said, he said, I'm not buying green bananas, you know, you know, you think we're running on the end of this thing, then if you want to play that gamble game against their death, that's called an actuarial table. It's the statistical probability of death versus the game you're playing. And I personally, unless someone is, you know, in hospice or something, I'm not going to fool with that. The other, the other question is, are they okay? Are you going to. Have you got their finances set up in such a way that they're mom's going to be okay if dad does financially without these policies? I think she is. And then the same question the other way. But I mean, you do whatever you want to do. That's a different situation. And then the loan you've got back to them for the doggy, whatever it was, hotel or whatever it was. The if you've got siblings and so forth, you may have some issues of dividing that up. You may end up owing them depending on how this will is set up. I'd want to know how the will's done for your sake, but wow, zero.

[Caller]

Chance he does it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Agreed. This is the Ramsey show. You've got a lot to keep organized in life. Kids and calendars and carpooling and cleaning.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean it is so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's why you need a Knockbox. That way if something happens to you.

[Ken Coleman]

You leave your loved one with happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Memories and not a huge mess.

[Ken Coleman]

Knockbox is a complete system to help.

[Dave Ramsey]

You organize your accounts, personal history, estate planning documents and all your other info in one place.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm talking about everything from life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Policies and social media accounts to your dog's vet divided into 15 simple categories.

[Ken Coleman]

Plus they've got checklists that tell you.

[Dave Ramsey]

What to add to each folder so your family won't have to guess where everything is.

[Ken Coleman]

So start getting organized [e-mail] Ramsey your family will thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's Knockbox.

[Ken Coleman]

Nokbox.com Ramsay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Merry Christmas. Hey, check out the last chance to grab some life changing books and ideas. Better than an ugly tie for people you love. Yeah, get something that actually matters like Building a non anxious life by Dr. John Deloney. Breaking Free from broke by George Camel of course Paycheck to purpose for by my own Ken Coleman sitting here, my co host today obviously. Total money makeover Baby steps millionaires. Those are all on sale questions for human cards by Deloney. Oh, all of [e-mail] store and I bet you for most of you we can still get it to you. So check it out. But you better not wait. You better not wait. All right. Taylor is in Fort Worth. Hey Taylor, what's up? Hi.

[Ken Coleman]

Thanks so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can I help?

[Ken Coleman]

So my question is should I go back to school and pursue my nurse practitioner license?

[Caller]

And why would you want to do that?

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm currently working as a nurse. I'm newly married and I make about 75k before taxes. My husband makes about 100k before taxes and it's something that I've always considered doing and I just. We don't have any kids yet so I kind of feel like maybe it's now or never. But my biggest concern is I've watched several of my friends go back to school and then they have had babies or kids in life come up and they have decided to be a stay at home, Mom. And so I'm a little bit nervous to make that decision, that financial decision to go back to school before having kids. And then I don't want to regret when I have kids still having to work because of that degree.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, the answer to that is not what you're concerned about. The answer is pay cash. If you don't go into debt, then there's no regret. Because then you could. Let's just fast forward. Let's say that you pay cash, you cash flow your way through this and on this income you should be able to do that. And then you get the nurse practitioner degree, you have kiddos, you want to come home for a season, then they get to school and you go, I want to go back. That entire transition is very likely, but there's no regret attached to that. And that extra income is going to be worth the roi and that's going to be worth it. So the answer is don't go into debt. Cash flow your way through it. And with your income you should be able to save up and do that, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that would be the plan. We actually already have the cash set aside.

[Caller]

Oh, well then what's the regret? Let's say you spend that cash is the regret that I spent the cash and now I'm never going back into it and so now I've just, oh, I burnt that money. Is that what you're saying?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I think it's just sacrifice over the next two years. I mean, if I didn't go back to school, we would start our family a little bit sooner, I think probably within the year. And going back to school means pushing that off for two years. And so I think just kind of struggling with that. And if that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'd have babies.

[Caller]

I would too. I was getting ready to say babies are better than school and the school will always be there, like, right, you see? And you already got the cash set aside. I'm going to say the same thing because I'm thinking if Stacy and I are having that conversation, I would ask you, if I was sitting with you and your husband, I'd go, both of you vote, Write it down, secret ballot or tell me straightforward. Which is the higher priority? If you both say kids, then I think it's a no brainer.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. And I mean, I know kids are, I mean we're only 28 and so starting a family at 30 isn't crazy. So it's just kind of trying to decide if, you know, it makes more sense to go and increase my income before we have kids rather than having them and then trying to, you know, suffer through school and daycare and everything else.

[Dave Ramsey]

School will always be there. Yep.

[Caller]

And I'm not trying to, but I'm just going to speak some truth over you. You have no idea when these babies are coming, so you don't have any control over that. Now, I certainly hope it happens in a, in a time frame that you'd love, but we don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Spoken like a guy who adopted two and then had one.

[Caller]

Right. And our journey, our journey was a long time. I don't wish that on anybody as far as a long period of trying to have babies. But I am saying you don't have any idea what that's going to look like. So you can't hedge your bets on, well, if I go to school, then we have the baby. You just don't know. So I would move forward with the bigger life decision, the bigger desire, the bigger priority. That's what we do. Then we manage the rest of the decisions against that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Another way that I've learned on big stuff stuff, whatever the big stuff is, that helps me and it helped me to make. That's why I spoke so quickly, is if I pan back and I say, all right, I'm now talking to 58 year old Taylor, which one would she have wished she had done? Ding, ding, ding, ding. Real easy. Yeah, I heard it in your voice.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's not, it's not your friend. It's not your friends. It's not what your friends are doing. I don't give a crap what your friends are doing. I'm talking, I was just listening to you and you're trying to say, okay, should I, should I go make more money and expand my career and therefore have children later? I, but I kind of, you know, I heard it. Yeah, I want to have them now.

[Caller]

That's what you, no question. And hear from us. You've got plenty of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're fine. You'll be okay. I'll be okay. Just keep, keep working your baby steps and, and then at the appropriate time, you can work on nurse practitioner, which by the way is an incredible, wonderful, fantastic control. That's a beautiful career field. You're going to make so much money and you're going to have so much access to. You'll have all the work you'll ever want. You'll always have work. So really good. Devin is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Devin, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my Call. How are you all doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. How can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

I just had a quick question. Obviously, that's what I called. So my husband and I actually just finished paying off our debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Congratulations.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you so much. You have been a game changer for us. We are currently saving for our three to six months and then going to be saving for a down payment. And I needed to know, should this just be going into just like a savings account or like a high yield savings or should we putting the money somewhere else?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, high yield savings is fine.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then you're going to make a little bit of interest, but the money you're going to have for your down payment is going to be from the sweat of your brow, not from the interest rate.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you're not going to have it in there long enough to make any interest to amount to anything.

[Ken Coleman]

No. And I didn't think that. And that's why I didn't know if it really mattered. But. Okay. Okay. Awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're, you're the secret sauce to having a down payment, not the investment. I mean, just go ahead and get what you can get. A high yield savings, what, four or five right now, that kind of thing. There's nothing wrong with that. But I mean, 5% of 100 grand is $5,000. And that means if you had 100 grand in there, you'd have 105. 100 versus 105 does not change the house you buy. The hundred is what changes the house you buy. So the euro, the secret sauce, they put the 100 in there because you're again, interest rates matter a lot more when you're thinking in a long term time horizon, mathematically they matter a lot more. And so, yeah, just, just, I would just park it in a high yield savings. You don't think about it.

[Caller]

Yeah, I love it. And I love hearing the excitement. I love hearing she's winning. They just paid off their debt. Now you got a young couple. The American dream is alive and well is what I take from that call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

Despite what you may be reading or hearing somewhere else. That's fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. Mary is on Facebook and Sundays, at age 56, how much should I have saved for retirement by now? Oh, no, you're not gonna make it. You're gonna be fine. I don't even know how much you have, but you're gonna be fine. There's not a set number, okay. The goal is by the time you quit working, whenever that is, and the government made up the number 65, no one else did it just made up. Okay, so you can work till 85, you can work till 105, I don't care. You just work until you don't want to work or tell you hate that job and you go do something different. Right? So, but if you can live off of 8% of your nest egg and it's invested at 12, you'll be fine. So if you have $500,000, 8% of that would be 40,000 a year. And it'll be growing at a little more than that. It'll be growing at about 60,000 a year. So if you grow 60 and you pull off 40, you'll be fine. And that, that, that program right there will run in perpetuation. It doesn't have an. It doesn't have an in. You never run out of money with that program. So if you build a nest egg that you can live off of 8%, then boom, you're going to be there just fine. So just start targeting that and be serious about it. Be intentional about it, but don't be anxiety ridden about it. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

For free tools and resources to help.

[Dave Ramsey]

You reach your home goals, go to.

[Caller]

Ramsaysolutions.com real estate or click the link in the show notes. Remember the good old days of the Internet? Before it was a privacy nightmare filled.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

Today's question comes from Kate in Maryland. My daughter is a junior in high school and has no idea what she wants to do when she graduates. My husband and I love the idea of her owning her own business, but neither my husband nor I have experience in this. We both wish we had made different career decisions that would have given us more independence. Where can we research with her to get a better understanding and vision for this option? Or would you still recommend college vs real world experience? Okay, I'm going to put myself into this particular situation. Say if this was my daughter, what would I do? And so because she's a junior, we would begin to identify areas of interest, not come up with the business idea. I think this could be very paralyzing for a youngster. It's paralyzing for a lot of people in their 30s and 40s because we know, Dave, from the data that 70% of Americans want to be self employed but only 6% are. So I'm speaking from data here. So what I would do with my daughter is we would begin to identify areas of interest, in other words, people that she wants to help solutions. She gets excited about problems she wants to solve. And there's an industry, if there's a business, there's an industry. And so we want to get broad so that she gets some real interest and begins to see some areas of interest. At that point we're going to shadow. I'm going to allow her to go have coffee, lunch with people that are in those industries or maybe run businesses in those industries. Shadow at work, if she can get shadow opportunities, all of this to begin to create a field of three or four of her most interesting options at that point. Then we start to have the discussion is college is a degree the best decision or is it getting right into the workforce and working in an industry? And give you an example to help clarify this some more. If this were a young man and by the way, it's not limited young man, but let's say she decides she wants to own a business in the trades. Okay. That, that point then I want her shadowing folks that are working in those trades and getting a real world experience. The good, the bad, the ugly, the smelly everything. And at that point we determine whether or not she's really interested. And then the path is going to be to go to work and hustle and learn on the job and eventually you work your way into spinning off on your own and starting your own business. So that's a hard question to answer in such a short amount of time without back and forth. But that would be the advice that I would give because that's what I would do. These young people need to see it, touch it, experience it, smell it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

And then they can decide.

[Dave Ramsey]

Completely agree. Because Kate, you did not say she has this extreme passion and apparent natural talent and bent towards X because you did not say that that would have led her towards a business. The people that we've talked to that are 18 or 19 or 21 years old that have had success and they call this show and they are really killing it. And we're all kind of aghast at how.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

How far ahead of this curve they are running their own thing. They almost always had a natural gift towards something. Technology is not unusual for a 19 year old today to be something that they would go, you know, they've been screwing around, writing code, messing around, building apps and all of a sudden they built an app and took off and ran the business. Okay. Or you know, whatever, that's fine. I mean that would be Michael Dell, that would be Bill Gates, both quit college and Steve Jobs. All three, all three companies were formed by college dropouts and so but they were super nerds with their eye exactly on what they wanted to do. There was no question. Instead you're asking a very generic thing. I, my husband and I always wish we were in business. So we wish our daughter would go into business, but none of us have a clue.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That, no, don't go in business. Business is too hard.

[Caller]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't, don't, don't. Don't put an 18 year old, 20 year old out there with no, no education to go into business doing that. No. If she thinks or that that and talking with her that she has got some entrepreneurial flair and wants to do a business someday, maybe in the future a great, you know, just get a business degree. Get a degree in Finance, a degree in marketing. You'll learn accounting, you'll learn statistics, you'll learn marketing, you'll learn strategic thought. I mean, you'll get some of these basic things in a good four year degree. That's what I have. And I use a lot of those classes I took 40 years ago. Every day running Ramsey, you know, it's a $300 million company, it's a dad gum. Good thing I had a couple of accounting classes. Hello. You know, rather than just trying to figure that out with a high school accounting class. And so it's a good thing that I, you know, understand marketing at an academic level before I actually get neck deep in it and then try to figure out how it works out here in the real world too. So I would do that. If she thinks she's going to go that direction, combined with Ken's advice of really going there and study, study, get, go visit these places. Quit talking about this stuff in the abstract.

[Caller]

Here's what we know about entrepreneurs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Business is very hard.

[Caller]

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, and people that have never started a small business and run one have this romantic view. Yeah. And there's. But there's a lot of dirt under the fingernails, boys and girls. I mean, there's a lot. It's, it's long hours. It's the hardest boss you'll ever work for in your life. That guy's a dead gum slave driver. Yeah.

[Caller]

And to that point, the entrepreneurs that win are driven by deep, deep desire to solve a problem and they come up with a solution. That's the business is a solution and they're deeply passionate about it. That's what keeps them going. Because it is. You almost need that magnetic pull or.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because in air quotes, I always wanted to work for myself.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not going to make it.

[Caller]

No. No chance.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's too tough. You're going to get your butt run over in the middle of the street, man. I mean, you're just going to be roadkill. And it's just too, I mean, because you put up with too much. You shovel so much manure. It's unbelievable to. There's a pony in there somewhere. But you got to shovel the manure. I mean, it's, it's real. And, and I'm not complaining and I'm not whining. I wouldn't. But I had a call for a certain thing.

[Caller]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I've had two in my life. I mean, one on real estate and went broke and then one doing this. And I could do the real estate Tomorrow and still be okay. But obviously God called us to this right here, and I'm happy with that. But, yeah, I wouldn't put up with the BS that you. Nobody will. That's why we see business people quit all the time. It's why we see a chef who is good at cooking and nothing else has a failed restaurant. That's why restaurants have the highest failure rate of almost any stinking business category. Because they think. Somebody thinks because they can cook or like cooking for their friends, that that makes them a restaurant owner. Now you got to hire and fire people all day long. Restaurant has a 325% turnover ratio in a year. Means you have to hire three people to fill that one position during that year. That's. So you're in the hiring business, you're in the firing business, you're in the food sourcing inventory. There's all this stuff that goes with running a business. It's not cooking.

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's that it blows a chef's mind. And they go, oh, God, I wish I'd never. Yeah, that's right. We all wish you'd never.

[Caller]

But that is a great actual example of, do I want to run a business that serves food, or do I just want to cook food? Two very different paths, by the way. Both honorable, but there is a big distinction between the two. And that's the key.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it's even like when we're talking with entree leaders, these small businesses, and they're getting ready to promote their best salesperson to be sales manager. It's two different skills.

[Caller]

That's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're. Managing salespeople is different than making sales. So one of. Sometimes one of the worst things you can do is take your best seller and turn them into a sales manager, because they don't have that skill set. They're good at selling. They're not good at managing salespeople.

[Caller]

Don't forget, they may not enjoy it. They may enjoy the service, they may hate it. They enjoy the service of the customer. They don't enjoy the service of leading a team of people.

[Dave Ramsey]

Again, you lead a bunch of sales people. It's like running a beauty parlor. It's trauma.

[Caller]

Two very different job descriptions.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, you know, you need to get in there what it is. So that's a great question, Kate. And we'll have the team send out.

[Caller]

I love the student assessment. Would be great for them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

We've actually got that. And that's. A young person can take that and get a pretty good idea of what a current snapshot of what a professional job description of purpose would look like for them.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that can be a business. I'm not very well killing that. But make sure you understand that, you know, business is not romantic. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Before investing, carefully consider a fund's investment objective, risk, charges and expenses contained in the prospectus or summary Prospectus available at timothyplan.com Read carefully before investing. Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners Limited and ETFs distributed by Foresight Fund Services, LLC. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. Ken Coleman, Ramsey, per personality number one bestselling author, host of the Ken Coleman Show. And of course, the book is Paycheck to Purpose. The other One's Proximity Principle. He's my co host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Andrew is in Winston Salem, North Carolina. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, hey, hey, Dave. Hope you guys are doing well today. Appreciate you taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm 32 years old and I've been following your baby steps and your content on YouTube. I've just reached baby step number four.

[Dave Ramsey]

So congratulations. Well done.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you very much. Yeah, it was a big achievement. So in regards to investing, I just took a look at kind of what my current situation is and I'm enrolled in my employer's 401k and contributing 6%, which is what my company matches. Now I think your advice is to next open up a Roth IRA and max that out and if there's any leftover, put that back into the 401k to hit my 15%. Is that correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly. Unless your 401k offers a Roth and has good options, good mutual funds to pick from, in which case you could just put it all in there. Doesn't matter. But does your company offer a Roth 401K?

[Ken Coleman]

It's through Fidelity. So I'll have to go and check into that. I was going to open up a Roth IRA through Fidelity just to keep it under one roof.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't.

[Ken Coleman]

You would not?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I would go go find. It's not, it's not whether it's from the Fidelity. Fidelity offers Roth 401ks to the employers that use Fidelity to manage their 401ks. And the only question is whether your employer allows that or not. If they do, you need to switch your whole thing to Roth. Now do you have good long term options for mutual funds inside that 401k?

[Ken Coleman]

I believe so. Just at the, you know, based on the quick searching I've done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You know, if you've got great options there, I would just put it all there and I put it all in Roth.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what you know, if that gets you to your 15%. If it doesn't, then you can open a Roth. And I would go to a Smartvestor pro@ramsey solutions.com to get your investing started. But the mutual fund family, the brand is Fidelity. There's Vanguard, there's Templeton, there's American Funds. Those are brands like Campbell's Soup. But then the mutual funds inside is the vegetable soup or the chicken noodle soup or the chili or whatever, whatever analogy or metaphor we want to use here. So you don't have to have all of your soup from Campbell's. You could get a different brand of soup. So it's not required that you go get a Fidelity roth with your 400. I mean, just because your 401k is that. Not at all. I'm not saying they're bad. Most of these fun families, these brands have good funds and bad funds track record wise. So you just need to learn about their track records. And if you want some further help, do go to ramseysolutions.com and sit down and do that. And Ken, the big thing he's doing right is he's actually doing it. Yeah.

[Caller]

And then he worked really hard to get there. I loved how he kind of paused after you said great job and he went. It was a big accomplishment. And you know what's fun to hear about that is this is a guy who now understands the pain that they went through to get to baby step four and now you get to the momentum stage where we're like, now we're getting wealthy and building wealth. And that's fun to hear.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep, yep. Absolutely. And, yeah, it's like, man, I got rid of all those payments. Now I got some money to invest time to flip the switch from being a broke person to being a rich person. Right.

[Caller]

I will ask a question, because we got a lot of new people all the time. And I'd love. I know the answer, but I'd love you to address it, because we tell people in baby step four, 15%. So the 15%. Explain that, because he's got 6%, he's putting in his company's matching. Because I think a lot of people have questions about that. So about what we teach on that number.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just take your household income. If you're married, you and your spouse's income total times 0.15. And that dollar amount needs to be going into retirement somewhere somehow. The best thing you can do is take a match, regardless of if it's Roth or traditional. If your company's matching, like, he's got a 6% match, the best thing you could do. And the 6% match does not count towards the 15. You are putting 15 in. The fact that they give you 6%, that's irrelevant. It's wonderful, but it's irrelevant to this discussion. So you put in 15%. That was your point. That's right. And then. But the. It's kind of a rock, paper, scissors, except it only goes one way. Match beats Roth beats traditional. So you go down the order. You first get all the match you can get. If they have a Roth like I suggested to him, he may. Then you get the match in a Roth. That's a double win. Then you max out in Roth. And if you can't do anything except traditional beyond that, because, for instance, you did a. Your company only has a traditional 401k. So you got the 6% match, like he may have. He thinks he might have. Then you move on from that 6%. We move on down. We do Roth at the. At the Smartvestor Pro. Well, that Roth amount, plus the amount you put in the 401k at 6% match, still not up to 15%. Then the last stage is you'd go back and finish off with the traditional, which he had that exactly right.

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

He'd been listening and had that figured out. Exactly. So match beats Roth beach traditional because the match is 100% rate of return. You put in a thousand bucks, they put in a thousand Bucks. You made a thousand dollars on your money instantaneously. And there are no mutual funds that have a hundred percent rate of return. None. And there are no taxes that are a hundred percent tax rate. So you can always win with a match. Always matches. Trump card. It wins the whole thing. Tara is in Salt Lake City. Hi Tara. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you, Dave. I'm happy to be here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good to have you. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

I little background. I have a degree in healthcare administration and since I had babies I found some jobs where I could do billing from home. So I do insurance billing and I run co pays and things like that. My husband is a licensed therapist and just this year he became independently licensed. So he started his own private practice where he sees patients on Saturdays and so he works at his 40 hour a week job and then Saturdays he sees his patients. And I want to be involved in his businesses finances. This is what I do from home for other offices. Like I understand insurance and co pays and deductibles and he doesn't want me to touch his business at all. It's not so much that I don't trust him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, no. Why doesn't he want you touching it? That's weird.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. He says he's worked for companies before where like the husband and wife have both been in charge and he's like, I just see that their marriage isn't great and they're fighting over business things that he's like, I'd rather not have business conflict in our marriage. So he kind of wants to just have that. He's like, you can manage all the money I take home, but I want to run the business myself. I mean, did Sharon help you when you were starting your business like with.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, but she also didn't want to and didn't have the skill set to. She does not have an accounting background like you do. So this is not a complicated. Listen, this is like Pete. This is like someone who says family should never work together. That's bull. Family can work together just fine as long as they know how to do it. As long as they don't have the relational skills. A therapist that does not have the relational skills to do this scares me.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I mean he's not a marriage therapist, but. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean he's therapy. Something you're doing some kind of teaches people to function with other human beings. That's what therapy does. Yeah.

[Caller]

That's interesting. David. It's all. It's like run the business is one thing. She just wants to help with the finances.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he. He.

[Caller]

He doesn't want her involved at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. That's weird. That's weird. No, I think you should be involved. But I think you also need to learn to work together sweetly. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, I'm excited to talk about a new sponsor, Burna. You all probably know I'm a gun guy, but I'm big on safety, so I'm also a Burna guy. Burna is the ungun, a less lethal option that protects you in more ways than one. A Burna is effective self defense when you need it. It also helps protect your assets from lawsuits if you have no choice but to use force. Because a Burna pistol immobilizes attackers without fatal harm. I have several Burna pistols and I love them. In fact, I had a Burna before they started advertising with us. They're easy to use with no recoil and no noise reduction needed. They're legal in all 50 states with no permits required. And because they're not firearms, they can be shipped right to your door. And you can train with a Burna right in your backyard. Plus, our listeners can get the Ramsey burna bundle for 10% off, which includes a Burna pistol, CO2 cartridges and ammo. And other Burna products like safety alarms, defense sprays and body armor are also 10% off. For Ramsey fans, see why Burna has more than 15,000 five star reviews. Just go to Burna.com Dave to learn more. That's by RNA.com Dave hey guys.

[Caller]

George Camel here. And it's that time of year again. The store shelves are packed with Little Debbie's Christmas trees, matching pajamas for you and your dog, but you know who you are. And giant inflatable Santas for the yard. I'm not mad about that. And speaking of inflation, Americans are about to spend close to a trillion dollars this Christmas. And get this. One third of that spending will be swiped on credit cards. Yikes. Now I get it. You want the holidays to feel magical and you want to have a good time. But trust me, there is nothing magical about staring down a mountain of credit card debt come January. So here's the deal. If you don't want January you to hate December you, I've got a money hack for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Download the EveryDollar app.

[Caller]

It's free to get started. And you could find an extra $400 of margin in your first month of using it. See, with EveryDollar, you'll keep your holiday spending under control.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'll track your expenses, you'll make a.

[Caller]

Plan you'll stay accountable and maybe even set yourself up with some sweet New Year goals. So skip the post Christmas regret and download everydollar for free in the App Store today. Your future self will thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. If you want to help us out, we could use your help. Click subscribe on the format that you're listening or watching YouTube or a podcast. Click the follow button, maybe, maybe the share button also where you can share the show. Or click a, cut a link out and send it to somebody and say, hey, listen, the Ramsey show, it's helping me check these guys out on Spotify, Apple, wherever it is, Google Play, wherever it is, on our local talk radio station. Help us share it, tell people about us. When you do that, it makes a big, big difference. Thank you very much. And those five star reviews, you can keep those coming too. They're very, very helpful. All that changes the algorithms on those things and pushes those formats right up into somebody's face. And we're able to help more people because you guys followed shared, subscribed and left nice reviews and so on. Jan is with us in Tampa. Hi, Jan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, hi, Dave. What an honor. Thank you so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I've got a lot of things, but this is a, this is my main thing right now. I am an accountant who's learning embarrassingly late in life how to start to manage my own finances. Been trying to, I've been following your system. I'm working on trying to pay back my debt and I was before I heard what you had to say about working with places like AmeriCorps and stuff. I was working with a debt settlement company and that was horrible. I finally saw the fees and stuff that they were charging. I can do better, you know, just on my own. So I quit with them. Okay. And then I negotiated like synchrony, got that one paid off. And the next one, I was gonna, I wanted to call you before I did this, but I called Capital One. I hadn't talked to them in like a year and a half. And I kicking myself because I got set up on this 20 month debt repayment plan at like almost 300amonth. I mean, it's almost the full balance of the debt. And I thought, then I, after I did that, I thought I heard you say on another show that you, that you can, you know, settle it for. I mean, I understand paying Back what I owe. Believe me, that's weighing on my conscience a lot too. But I have heard you also speak to, you know that you can settle these things for like quarters on the dollar.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If it's a two year old or one year old debt. Yeah, they're going to. And a lump sum. They won't do that on payment plan. How can we help you today, Jan?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, do you think if I offered them 2,500.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. You have a payment plan now. Oh, no, they have you. I mean, if you quit paying those payments and they don't have anything coming in, they might if you want. If you want to do that. But if you can pay this out now that you've done it, pay it out. But if you're not able to do it, then you're not able to do it. You settle a debt when you're not able to pay it.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I'm really not. But I mean, I mean it's a hardship, but I do understand about.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean it's a balance and it's a balance in there. Are you able to in the next 20 months, you know, pay your lights and water, food, work some extra jobs and pay your bills? If you are, then pay them. If you're not able to and you're behind and you call them up and you offer them pennies on the dollar as a lump sum, which is what you're talking about, I recommend. But that's only for someone who can't pay. It's not a get out of debt technique. For someone who's able. I have $10,000 in the bank. I owe $10,000. Write a check. Don't settle a debt like that. If you took out the money on the credit card. Right.

[Caller]

Yeah. It's down to ethics and character.

[Dave Ramsey]

It doesn't sound like she's trying to violate that, but I'm just trying to distinguish for our.

[Caller]

I think she tried to get a deal for a listening audience plan and now she regrets that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's. That's exactly what it is.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that does also sound like you can pay it. Yeah, it's hard, but you can pay it. If you can pay it and do your other stuff, then do it. Finish it out, you'll be done. And you know, maybe they waive some interest or something like that. That's fine. Austin is in Spokane. Hi, Austin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Ken Coleman]

Hello, sir. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, so I kind of in a little bit of a dilemma. I've been with my current company. I've been with them for 10 years now. I started with the company when I was in my mid-20s. Me and my wife were having a kid at the time. We're like, okay, this seems like a good thought, good option for us. They have really good benefits. I've had good medical care. I have great time off, flexible schedule, but the pay has been lacking. And 10 years down the line, I still have the same job I started with. I was hoping with this particular company there'd be growth opportunities, ways to move up, and it just hasn't happened. So I kind of feel like I worked myself or backed myself into a corner being with the company for so long. So one know, like, what do you think the possible options are to possibly move away from this company or because the benefits are so good, do I stick it out for a little bit longer? Kind of no. Kind of my dilemma. Do I move forward or do I just. Do I just move on?

[Caller]

You move forward, mentally move forward, you know, looking through everything financially involved with the movement, and then you make the move. But your soul has kind of left your body already around this job. You feel like you've hit a lid. And the answer to your first question is no, you didn't paint yourself in a corner. Unless you're not telling us something. You know, painting yourself in a corner is you have no options. You can't get out. That's the very idea there with that. So the question is, go back to 10 years ago. Where did you see yourself going up the ladder? What did it look like? Was it in this particular field or is it in a different field? Different industry?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So what is this particular field? So I currently work with, guess you can call it customer service role. I've been doing that for 10 years. What I kind of thought, this company is so big, it's got a good name for itself. If anything, it's going to look great on a resume.

[Caller]

But what did you think you wanted to be doing? Where would you like to be today? Let's answer that question. If you could snap your fingers, no risk, what would you like to be doing right now?

[Ken Coleman]

I was like, I would. I mean, the dream scenario. I would love to own my own business someday.

[Caller]

No, that's not what that. That's down the road. You went a little too far. Give me the. You already answered the question. And then you edited. I heard it. So what. What would. What's the spot on the ladder you'd like today? Had the 10 years gone the way you Wanted it to. What would you be doing?

[Ken Coleman]

If I'm doing customer service now, if I were in a management position in that same particular field, I would have been. I would have been happy with that.

[Caller]

All right, so you get to management by virtue. In other words, you do good work and you're in a company that has a growth environment, meaning they do this. You've not grown for 10 years. One of the things I would challenge you as your coach if we're sitting in a one on one session, is do you have good evidence as to why you haven't moved at all in 10 years? I'm not saying it's your fault, but I'm also not necessarily blaming the company. I just don't know enough to just make them the bad guys. But you need to know homework assignment number one is do I have some real clarity from my current leaders and through my records over the 10 years as to why maybe I haven't moved up the ladder? Let's get, let's make sure we're not walking around with a blind spot. Second thing is, okay, what positions are available to me in different companies, same industry, where I know for a fact I've done my homework, and they have a culture of growth like Ramsey Solutions moves people up. You do a good job here and you stay with it, you're going to get an opportunity for growth here. And so you.

[Dave Ramsey]

32 promotions and staff meeting this morning.

[Caller]

Exactly. Very normal. So you know the industry, Zach, you know the industry and you know the position. Go get it. Don't overthink this. But before you move, we're going to have something that we're going to move into. We're not going to jump and start looking. There's. It's just never a good idea unless for some reason you've got all kinds of wealth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it too late at that company to go in and sit down with supervisor and say, how can I add value?

[Caller]

It might be. That's my next question. Have you ever sat with a leader in your 10 years and said, hey, I want to grow? What are some opportunities for me?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah, I have. I've had a same manager for quite a while and we've had those conversations and I have moved or done rotational roles that only lasted like six to nine months. I've tried those opportunities and they've unfortunately haven't really accumulated or turned into anything beyond that.

[Caller]

Yeah, Dave's right. I think one more time I'd sit with him, go, hey, I've been here 10 years and this is the Kind of gig that I'd love to have. You've given me these opportunities. Shoot me straight. Let me know where I stand. I can handle it. We've been together a long time. Tell me, what are my options here? To grow and be okay with whatever the answer is. And that'll give you some clarity moving forward. But you're probably looking somewhere else is my guess.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is the Ramsey show. Hey, guys. I've never done this before, but I'm partnering with a nutrition company, Field of Greens. Each fruit and vegetable in Field of Greens is selected by doctors to support heart, liver and kidney health plus metabolism for healthy weight. And your doctor will notice your improved health or Field of Greens will give you your money back. I can get behind the promised land like that. Go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsay and get 15% off with promo code Ramsay fieldofgreens.com Ramsey hey guys. Dave Ramsey here. And I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the Money and relationships tour with Dr. John DeLoney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City in April, April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more [e-mail] tour. You ever stood in the grocery store line nervous that when you spent that money it was going to cause check to bounce? I have. That's scary. Life's too short to live scary like that. You want to stop it. You have to tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. That happened to me when we were going broke. I got a brand new baby, a toddler and a marriage hanging on by a thread. Sharon would have left, but she didn't have a car. I mean, we were not. It was not good at our house. And I remember I can show you the Kroger. I was standing in line. I'm writing a check and I can't figure out in my head if when I buy these groceries if there's going to be enough money to pay the electric bill, if the electricity is going to get cut off because I bought groceries. See, when you have a written, detailed plan, you'll never have that feeling again. You'll know this is how much I have for groceries and that means I have enough for lights and enough for water and enough for the rent and enough for the kids school activity and enough for whatever because you've got it Written down. And you know, if I stay in this side, this number that's written down for this category. That means the other categories get to exist without any trouble. The stress goes way down. The anxiety evaporates. The old word we used to use is you are empowered. Remember being empowered for things, Ken, that was a long time ago. Yes.

[Caller]

Scary word to a lot of people now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's okay. You're empowered. You're in control of your money instead of it. Money is a great slave. It's a horrible master. You need a written, detailed game plan for your money. It's called a budget. And that's how I, we developed Every Dollar. Because every dollar gets an assignment before the month begins and you agree on it with your spouse. You can download the world's best budgeting app called Every Dollar for free in the App Store or at Google Play or you can click in the click the link in the description if you're on Podcast or YouTube. Kathy is with us in Indianapolis. Hi, Kathy, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Ken Coleman]

Dave, thank you. Thanks so much for taking my call. I feel like I could use a group call with all of you all. Rachel, J. John, Ken and Dave. But Dave, you're like my financial father. I think we're the same age, but I've been listening to you for a long time. So I waited till a day that you were here. So I think I have two main questions. Can we afford to own two homes? And the second was if we divorce, what considerations are there for our investment account? So just a tiny bit of background. We're living separately at home. I'm 65, my husband's 67. I travel two to three weeks out of every month to go and help our daughter who lives in a different state with her tiny little ones, with another one on the way. I've gotten involved in a church up there and starting to develop some friendships up there. My daughter and son in law, they want me to come as much as I want and to be there with them, but they don't really want to spend time with my husband. Why? Behavioral and emotional immaturity, I think I would say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is that her dad?

[Ken Coleman]

It doesn't seem to.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I said, is that her father?

[Ken Coleman]

Without her father? I'm sorry. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so she, she doesn't want a relationship with her father.

[Ken Coleman]

She wants it no more than a couple days at a time. She's concerned about him being around the young kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's wrong with him?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I have involved our church and attempted to talk to him, but I'd say it's emotional immaturity, spiritual immaturity, relational immaturity, focus on politics and things that just don't matter. He has asked for forgiveness every time these things happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are these things? I mean, he yells at people or whatever.

[Ken Coleman]

Trying to think of a real quick example. He doesn't know when to quit. When people say, I don't want to talk about that, he won't quit. And I've talked to my pastor about it, and he's tried to set up times to talk with him, but he just says that he will go to counseling, but then it never happens. So we've been living separately in our own home here for about six months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I do not like that your daughter and your grandkids are driving this. You owe your marriage more than that. How long you been married?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, we've been married for 41 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And maybe I'm maybe not explaining.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to go. You. Without your daughter's input. I'm tired of her input already. You need to go sit down with a counselor and start talking to the counselor about how to talk to your husband of 40 years, that you're going to require him to sit down in counseling with you. And you need to be able to give some words to that for him, for you to stay in the marriage.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Well, then I put boundaries around things, and I may have. I think maybe I jumped ahead. This has just been getting progressively worse.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, because you ran off to the. You ran off to another city for three weeks at a time and griped with your daughter about how bad a man this is that you've been married to for 40 years. Of course it's not getting better.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, and I hate to correct you there, I really do, but that. That is not how it's panned out. And what you told me. Well, yeah, I'm trying to be careful here because this has been ongoing for years and years, and my going there so much has just recently started to pick up because of the need there. I am not running away from my home here and my responsibilities here. And I'm confident of that, and my pastor's confident of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then you guys have to decide if you're going to be married, and then you need to decide that, and then you'll decide whether you're going to do stuff. No, I would not try to live in two different cities and act like we're not married when we're still married. That would be suicidal. Relationally, emotionally, financially, yes.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm, you know, deciding our Home here is paid off when you, when.

[Dave Ramsey]

You divorce, you turn your, your balance sheet into a business, and you're just going to look at what we own and what we owe, and that's going to be split. And so you guys start thinking about that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. And I have. And I, I contacted, I have my investment account, the 1.3 million with 1 of the brands, and I went to another one of the brands to have. Because I'm right now 9010 in stocks and then bonds and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you don't need to move anything until you decide if it's what's going to be split.

[Ken Coleman]

Exactly, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So right now you need to decide. First thing we got to do is just add it all up and start talking to a divorce attorney. And how much of that's going to be yours? How much of it's going to be his? Because in most states it's down the middle.

[Ken Coleman]

Right? It's 50, 50 here. And he says, my husband says he understands that. I mean, I've managed all that. I've built it, we've done it together. But he said, you deserve more than that. But I said, well, beyond that, we just need to figure out what we're going to do. And they worked out this plan for me with a 5050 split, but with it changing from 9010 stocks and bonds to 7030 stocks and bonds. So I had a question for you about that. I was thinking about going with a second company, but they do individual stocks, and I. That, that is generally, you just. You do not do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I wouldn't do any of that. I think you got a whole lot bigger plant problem than whether you're in stocks or bonds. Honey, in a marriage of 41 years, you need to think about. And you all need to concentrate on that, and you need to put a bow on that one way or another. Either we're in a healing mode or we're in an ending mode. When it ends, you take your poker chips off the table, then you sit down and. And you know, you can go to Ramsey Solutions and click on SmartVestor Pro. They'll sit down and put you in some mutual funds is what I would do. It's pretty simple. I wouldn't be in stocks, I wouldn't be in bonds. I wouldn't be in 70, 30. I wouldn't be in 9010 be 100% of mutual funds. That's what I'm in. And you've been listening to me. You already knew that. So. Wow, that's a sad place you're in. Honey, Real sad. This is the Ramsey show, folks. The Ramsey Christmas cash giveaway is here and you could win big. We're giving away $500 prizes each week and one grand prize of $5,000. Enter daily for your chance to win at ramseysolutions.com giveaway. It's that easy. Plus our 50 Days of Christmas deals is on right now. Get up to 30% off best sellers and life changing gifts that won't break the holiday budget. Ramsaysolutions.com store Ken Coleman, Ramsey personalities my co host. This is the last segment on the podcast and on YouTube. If you want to pick up the next segment, all you do is go to Ramsey Network app. It's completely free. Download the app, you can watch, listen to the show, all the show including the next segment, the after show, so to speak. And those of you on talk radio always get what you always get. And there's all kinds of other stuff on the Ramsey Network app. All the other shows that you can search this show by subject, you can send emails and it's 100% free. There's not a subscription level on it at all. We're not selling a subscription. It's a completely free app. The Ramsey Network app. Be sure and join it. Put that on your phone. Start listening using in that, using that to consume this show. Nicholas is in Washington D.C. hi Nicholas, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm good. How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

So I just graduated college, took my last final today and I have a job offer for but I've actually taken already for 130,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you graduated from college and took 130,000. What's your degree in?

[Ken Coleman]

Computer science.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, dude. Man, look at you. Wow. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And on that note, I have absolutely no idea how to structure this income and how I can save you the best. I have the blessing that I can live with my parents for a while after starting this job. So I think for six months I'll probably be living with them and just saving up as much as I possibly can. But I'd love your insight on whether I should be maxing out my 401k.

[Dave Ramsey]

Any other tools?

[Ken Coleman]

I do have debt. I have roughly $30,000 of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Here's what I would do in your situation. You need to do a detailed written plan and you're good at detailed written plans with computer science degree of what you're going to do with every dollar before the month begins. Now, you do not know exactly what your take home pay is yet. But you can probably get pretty close. Okay. And I would not stay with your parents six months and save money. I would stay there three months until you found a nice place and get out.

[Ken Coleman]

So I know that roughly my take home after taxes will be around seven and a half thousand a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, perfect. Then budget that out, stay there three months and find you an apartment and get the heck out man. Start your life.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm ready to start my life. But on that note, what should I be aiming to pay for rent? Because this is a very expensive area. Kind of. Hence the large salary and one bedroom apartments in the area of where I work go for around 2,500. Is that something you think I can afford?

[Dave Ramsey]

Nope. You need a bit, a fourth of your income, fourth of your take home.

[Ken Coleman]

Pay both of the take home. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you may want to get a two bedroom getting a roommate or you may want to live a little bit further out with a bit more of a commute than you were looking at. You're not going to be able afford to live in the cool area of D.C. not on 130 grand. It's not 130 grand budget. Yeah, but you can live in the area. You just can't live in the cool kids area. And that's where the apartment was.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah, it sure was. Do you think I should be maxing out my 401k?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I think you need to dump everything you got on the 30k until you get rid of it.

[Ken Coleman]

And then after that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Then after that I would start. I'd make sure you had an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. After that I'd start putting 15% of my income away towards retirement in my 401k. And really you should be there within a year. But let's take this year and get the 30k and build you an emergency fund of 20,000 cash. Start talking about maybe buying a house someday and let's start putting money in our 401k. At that point I'm going to send you a copy of the book the Total money Makeover which outlines what we call the baby steps. Nicholas. And it'll walk you through every little bit of that and jump online and get every dollar the budgeting app for free and get started on laying out your budget and give every dollar a game plan before the month begins. But completely concentrate on the debt until it's gone. And you know, two to three months at your parents house is plenty in this situation.

[Caller]

Yeah, I was going to say Nicholas, the one thing you're going to need to fight is that you've been in college, presumably for four years, and you got a dorm room or an apartment in the cool part of town and life's been a big, big blast and you've done well and you got a good job. Now it's the time to start being patient. And I think the roommate living further out, learning how to manage your money. You're going to be so far ahead if you just can be patient and not try to keep a portion of that college lifestyle going. This is the real world now. And that means not getting an apartment in an expensive place, getting one, two, maybe three roommates for a year, whatever that is. So that's my encouragement to you is now things are changing and the mindset has to change with it, or else you're going to feel like, oh, I should have this, and I've been doing this. Well, you can't afford to do that. It's a very different world now.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have this sense when we take a step up, when we level up, and you're leveling up by graduating and getting a great job, it's human nature to have a sense of going, I deserve.

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And let me help you with what you can do what you deserve. You don't deserve anything unless you can pay for it. That's your measure, whether you deserve it or not. I know. I don't know. I don't care. If you have the money, you deserve it. If you don't have the money, you don't deserve it. You haven't made enough yet. And that, that slows your butt down and pushes you into a contentment zone which goes okay. And then I'm gonna live like no one else so that later I can live and give like no one else. Nick's in West Palm Beach. Hi, Nick, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, Dave. I'm doing good. How are you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm in a little predicament here. I've been running my business. I started about eight years ago. It's a party and event rental company. We're located in South Florida. And I have just recently, probably within the last six months, kind of been listening to a lot of your videos and watching you guys consistently starting the baby steps. I've had about a little over $70,000 in debt between a vehicle or two, as well as just mainly credit card debt. Within the last six months, I've paid off over half of that. I have about $30,000 in debt remaining with 22,000 of that being one of my vehicles, and then about $8,000 left in credit cards. And now with it being December, I've got Christmas bonuses that need to be going out. You know, that I'm normally paying every year and that I've got about 10 employees total. And I'd say four or five of them have been with me for a few years now and are used to, you know, that Christmas bonus this year. I've just been, you know, I've been tightening everything up, and I'm just in a predicament right now and wondering, you know, if I should pay those Christmas bonuses or if I should have a, you know, conversation with my employees about.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have the money?

[Ken Coleman]

I've got the money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, I definitely have the money.

[Caller]

To pay them for sure.

[Ken Coleman]

Right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

How big a bonus are we talking about?

[Ken Coleman]

Not a lot. Not, I would say, you know, over the 10 employees, they're all going to be small bonuses, maybe totaling up to $3,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How much money do you have?

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, right now, just liquid in the bank. Between, you know, my personal accounts and my business accounts, I'd say approximately, maybe 35 grand.

[Caller]

So you're just wanting to save the three this year to keep going towards all this debt elimination. That's why. That's your why.

[Ken Coleman]

Right, That's. That's my why. Like, you know, how do you think.

[Caller]

They'Re going to react to that? What do you think their real reaction is going to be if you told them today?

[Ken Coleman]

Definitely some disappointment, for sure. I'm sure they're kind of counting on it. It's later in the month than I would have normally paid it to because I've just. You know what I mean?

[Caller]

Have you ever seen Christmas Vacation with Chevy Chase?

[Ken Coleman]

Not haven't, unfortunately, no.

[Caller]

Wow. You know, watch that tonight. That didn't go well when he didn't pay the bonuses and he gave him the jelly of the month club. These people are counting on it. Listen, it's a comedy, but people are counting on this. And you waited way too late to change this on them. It's my opinion. I wouldn't do that. For what money you think you're gonna do?

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have the money, you'll lose them.

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have the money, right? It's not right. It's not like you have 30,000 in bonuses and $30,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not. You have the money. It's not gonna kill you. It's really not even gonna change your get out of debt plan. You're just. You're just more cognizant now where money's going, and that's a good thing. But in terms of communicating with the team on something like that, you should have communicated before Thanksgiving.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if the truth is we're not profitable enough to pay out bonuses this year. But that's not even the truth here. Truth is, you have the money. You just want to put it on debt instead. And so in that case, no, I think part of running your business is a small. And these are small Christmas bonus. And yeah, just be. I. I definitely would give that out. I give it out today, by the way, in cash as soon as you get off the phone. This is the Ramsey chef. What up?

[Caller]

What up? It's Dr. John DeLoney from the Dr. John DeLoney show with some amazing news. The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey network app. App. This docu series follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90 day journey to transform their lives. And I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app. What's up, Kelsey?

[Ken Coleman]

So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life?

[Caller]

What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that. All right, so you ready to jump in?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm ready to jump in.

[Caller]

We're gonna check in with Kelsey. 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.

[Ken Coleman]

I cannot even function because I am just crying. My mom left us when I was 4. I truly felt like for a while I had no family.

[Caller]

She's experiencing things. Things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy.

[Ken Coleman]

He triggers me a lot. Scared of losing Paul, Scared of doing the wrong thing. Scared of not being enough.

[Caller]

It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey.

[Ken Coleman]

It is.

[Caller]

Whenever somebody's playing whack a mole with their anxiety, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay.

[Ken Coleman]

How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Cause I feel like she's running the show.

[Caller]

One, one of two people that's supposed to never leave took off.

[Ken Coleman]

How is this. How is this burden your burden?

[Caller]

That's right. To the one person who should carry all of it. Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault?

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know what to do.

[Caller]

You either have to choose to let this guy love you, or you gotta choose to let this guy go.