Dr. John Deloney (2:29)

Okay. Have you ever. Have you ever been scammed?

Caller (2:34)

No.

Dr. John Deloney (2:35)

Okay.

Caller (2:36)

No.

Dr. John Deloney (2:37)

Have you ever made a mistake? And here's what I'm looking at. Looking for. I. There may be resources, but I can't think of a better resource than a father's. Like the love of A son for his father. And so, I don't know, there's going to be a website or a. A new article like the Scams Against Aging. Our aging population has increased so much, it's a multi. Multibillion dollar business, and they're robbing seniors blind. And you nailed it. It's a group of people who are increasingly lonely, don't have resources, and who are being fed rage and anger and fear all day long. And then somebody comes along and says, hey, I can. I can give you a bit of this, right? The reason I was asking if you've ever been a part of a scam is for your dad. Nothing's going to be more embarrassing than falling for something, right? And this same group of people who stole this 3,600 bucks is going to loop back with a different scam and say, have you been scammed? Give us 500 and we'll make sure it never happens again. He'll fall for that one, too. Like this whole thing, like, you're working with pros, okay? And so if you have ever made a mistake with money, been scammed out of something, leading with that first is often a way to mitigate shame. It's why Dave Ramsey always leads with the story of, hey, I promise you, I've blown my life up financially more than any of y' all have. It gives everybody else permission to say, oh, you had $4 million in debt. I just had a hundred thousand dollars in debt, right? So if you can sit down with him and say, I've messed up before, dad. I've been buried under this stuff before this happens. And then the next step is, and he may not do it, would you be willing to, like, these kids with their computers are so good. Would you be willing to give me financial power of attorney? Would you let me pay your bills for you? And he may say, no way, no how. And I know a lot of aging dads have a lot of ego and a lot of pride still, but I. I don't know another way around it, brother. We're hearing this more and more and more and more and more.

Caller (4:54)

He did put me on his account so that I could help him with that stuff. But in that I set alerts, which, you know, he went to the branch and pulled 3, 600 out cash. And I said, dad, what's the cash going for? It's for his business account. He had to go deposit it into a Chase account for this business. And I said, dad, nobody does business like that. Yeah, nobody takes cash from one account. You just completely Severed any line of traceability to this.

Jay Borcha (5:24)

How much money does he have access to your dad?

Caller (5:28)

Well, his bank account, his savings is, as I see it, nothing in his savings, but he has a monthly pension and Social Security amounting roughly 40, $500 a month.

Jay Borcha (5:41)

And does he have a nest egg

Caller (5:43)

anywhere else that I don't know. I think he's got an investment account, you know, and he. He keeps getting this call from these people. And you're right, John. They are absolute pros. And they keep. They let a certain amount of time pass and they'll call in and. And, you know, hey, you know, we've got this account. I'm a br. The last one was. I am a bank manager from sand and Tear in Mexico City. And we have this large amount of money.

Dr. John Deloney (6:13)

Sure. Yeah. Is. Is there.

Caller (6:15)

Nobody does that.

Dr. John Deloney (6:17)

Is there. Could you get through and say, hey, dad, I've been reading about a lot of people with pensions and Social Security getting a lot of calls from all over the country, all over the world with people trying to scam them, scam them out of their money. Would you be to like it, not make it about, hey, I heard you got scammed. But, hey, I hear this is going on and they're preying on people like you. He might say, that would never happen to me. Who knows, man? I. I'm just trying to think, Jade. I'm trying to think of ways to connect relationally here.

Jay Borcha (6:46)

I'm. Yeah, that's a good idea. Because I was thinking about even if he has friends or people that are in his circle that maybe he does listen to, and you start with those guys and say, hey, I don't. This is. This is big in your. In your age group. Are you guys dealing with this? Because if you are, my dad's dealing with it. Maybe you guys can talk some sense into him. Because at the end of the day, yeah, you can do all the things. You can freeze credit. You can, you know, make sure your name is on the accounts. It already sounds like it's that way, but until you really have. It sounds like until you have full control over this and you're more so distributing money to him, sadly, this could continue to go on, and it's huge. John, you hit on it before, but the latest statistic is adults 60 years old and older have lost $3.4 billion to scams in a single year. Like, in a single year. That's crazy. So maybe I. I don't know what kind of guy your dad is. Maybe he's an analytical guy and it's just like, maybe you print out some crazy stats and you just slide it over on the table and say, hey, just read this. Just please read this. And. And it's not you talking, but you let somebody else do the talking for you. Maybe you send him this episode and you say, dad, I was really concerned. I called. I called a few experts just to see. And what they said really bothered. Like, it was really troubling me. And I wanted you to. And so Ryan's. Dad, if you're listening, you. You gotta let Ryan help you out. This is a. This thing is bigger than you.

Dr. John Deloney (8:11)

And for all aging parents, yeah, it's bigger than you. If your kids come to you with some expertise or some care and love, man, let them love you.

Caller (8:18)

Right?

Dr. John Deloney (8:18)

Yeah, let them love you.

Jay Borcha (8:19)

They're not. They. They want nothing for you, but to help you, they gain nothing for it. And remember, the scammer is the one asking you for money, not your. Not your sons and your daughters who are saying, hey, please don't do this thing.

Caller (8:30)

It.

Dave Ramsey (9:02)

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Jay Borcha (10:17)

Back to the phone lines, where we have Amanda in San Antonio, Texas. Amanda, how can we help out today?

Caller (10:24)

Hey, guys. I'm calling to get some wise guidance on what to do in my marriage with our finances. My husband is pretty irresponsible with spending on a daily basis, and nothing seems to change for a longer period of time. And my next step for what I thought is to separate our finances and just ask him to pay a portion of our bills to me so I can handle our Finances a little more responsibly. I just don't know if that's the best next step.

Jay Borcha (11:03)

What do you mean when you say he's irresponsible? Like, tell us what those behaviors look like. What was the most recent thing he did that you would say? Man, that was just so irresponsible.

Caller (11:14)

Yeah. So mostly were averaging 50 to $70 a day, between five and seven days a week spending at gas stations.

Jay Borcha (11:29)

Mountain Dew and Corn Nuts. That's it, man. He's getting a drink, isn't he? He's getting a drink and a snack or like a sausage biscuit. That's what he's doing.

Caller (11:38)

Well, yeah, it's breakfast, it's energy drinks, and a lot of it is those liquid Kratom shots.

Dr. John Deloney (11:45)

Oh, yeah. So number.

Jay Borcha (11:47)

That's next level.

Dr. John Deloney (11:48)

Yeah, I've. I've got a close friend who went through a gnarly Kratom detox. That's the issue here.

Caller (11:57)

Yeah, yeah. It's definitely, I think, an addiction at this point. And, you know, I bring up my feelings about it, but they change for two days and then it goes right back to where it was. So.

Dr. John Deloney (12:08)

Yeah.

Jay Borcha (12:09)

John, real quick, explain Kratom. So for folks who are listening, who

Dr. John Deloney (12:12)

don't know, it's just a. It's. I considered it. I mean, in the same way, I won't even go down that road. It's something you can get at a gas station that alters your mind.

Jay Borcha (12:23)

Yeah, It's a plant that is an ingredient in things that it's addictive, just like any other substance. But a lot of people don't know that it is. And when they, when they buy it

Dr. John Deloney (12:32)

for the first time, anything. If you ever go to a gas station to try to feel better, that's your first signal. Probably not a good idea. Where else in your life is he not showing up for you?

Caller (12:46)

Well, I think a lot of it is kind of trickled down from the Kratom thing. I think it's, you know, frustration caused by that. I think it's, you know, just lack of intimacy as well caused by that. But, you know, it's just. It's. It's something. Every two weeks it's a new obsession of I want to buy watches and now I want to buy Pokemon cards. And we're just draining money. Like there's. There's a nail on our tire. We can't seem to keep it filled.

Dr. John Deloney (13:15)

So I. I want you to treat this. This might be a. And what I would call it might be an over correction. But I want you to treat this as though he has an alcohol addiction. He is regularly consuming a substance that is altering his ability to show up for himself and his marriage, and that is costing a bunch of money. It's costing relational conflict, it's causing relational disconnection, all that stuff. And so anytime you're sitting with somebody who is struggling in any sort of addiction, what you can control in that moment is you, and it's you saying, here is what I'm going to do next. And. Yeah, I would advocate for you right now to get your own checking account and to make sure you've got your bills paid and make sure you've got your. How your roof over your head and make sure you can afford your own counseling bills. Because this is a bigger issue than the $50 or $75 a day he's blowing at gas stations.

Caller (14:10)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (14:10)

It's a much bigger issue that just. That's just one of the alarm bells going off.

Jay Borcha (14:14)

You had. Do you guys have kids together?

Caller (14:18)

We do. We have three.

Jay Borcha (14:19)

Okay, what are their ages?

Caller (14:23)

Eight, four, and ten months.

Caller (14:26)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (14:29)

Is he still showing up at work?

Caller (14:32)

Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (14:32)

Okay.

Caller (14:34)

He took a pay cut at the beginning of this year, you know, but loves his job, so that's, I guess, better than making more money and hating your job, but.

Dr. John Deloney (14:44)

Well, for a short time. But do you have. Do you have. Do you work outside the home?

Caller (14:49)

I do. And my. My concern with having our. Our bills split proportionally to what we make is that I make more money than him, and I don't want him to feel less of a provider.

Dr. John Deloney (15:01)

That. That's not about that at all. That ship is sailed. We're solving for safety. We're not solving for feelings right now. We're solving for safety.

Jay Borcha (15:08)

And I think it's good that he knows that. Hey, you've put us in a situation where I can't trust you, and therefore, I have to be a woman and make sure that I'm keeping myself and the kids safe. And the way that I can do that is I can keep this money aside and I can use it to pay the bills, keep the house running. And when you're ready to get the help that you need, I would love for you to come back into the marriage and be a participant again in a healthy way. And I think that's just you saying what you're gonna do and controlling what you can do. And there's no apologies given for that, because he's doing what he's gonna do. Right?

Caller (15:45)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (15:46)

And. And. And be forewarned. Anytime you put up a boundary like this. And by the way, this sounds like a boundary to reestablish connection down the road.

Jay Borcha (15:54)

That's right.

Dr. John Deloney (15:55)

And to keep you safe. So it's not like you're like a, like an immature 26 year old. Like I'm cutting off my parents because they gave me a curfew when I was a teenager. You're not doing that.

Jay Borcha (16:03)

You've talked. Yeah. Cause you've t bridge to come back on. You've said, when you are able to take responsibility, get the help you need. I. I'm happy to have you back.

Dr. John Deloney (16:12)

Basically, we're all back in. Expect him to run full force into this boundary with everything he's got to see if it will hold. And if you give him, I expect this much money for rent, I expect this much money for bills, and he stops paying you, you're going to have to. You're going to be forced to say, okay, what next? Am I going to hold the line here? Is he gonna have to move out like you? You go ahead and set that stuff up in your mind because he's going to test these boundaries and see if they hold.

Jay Borcha (16:42)

What do you make every month, Amanda?

Caller (16:46)

I make about 4,500.

Jay Borcha (16:49)

Okay. And what portion? Okay. After tax. And how much is the rent? Rent or mortgage?

Caller (16:56)

Well, our. The house we just bought is 2150. Okay. And we're currently staying in half of a duplex that we own, and the remainder to cover that mortgage is about 500.

Dr. John Deloney (17:14)

Are you renting out the other side?

Caller (17:17)

We are. And we have renters lined up for this side when we move out in the month and a half to go

Jay Borcha (17:23)

to the new house.

Caller (17:24)

Correct.

Dr. John Deloney (17:25)

Was the duplex another one of his scams?

Caller (17:31)

No, no, I think it was a wise investment.

Jay Borcha (17:33)

Okay. Okay. What about daycare? Do you pay for daycare?

Caller (17:40)

Yeah. Okay, we do pay for daycare. It's about 20 or it's $230 a week for our one one child that's in daycare.

Dr. John Deloney (17:50)

Okay, when you say it's a wise investment, what are you going to clear after both rents come in on the mortgage and the insurance and the upkeep?

Caller (18:01)

Yes, we clear about 900amonth.

Jay Borcha (18:05)

Okay. So that's enough to cover daycare, basically. And does that come to you? Are you able to get access to that money before basically grab access to that money so you can make sure it's getting used to keep the household running.

Caller (18:22)

So some of it and a portion of it is from like section 8 and that goes to our joint Joint account. So I have access to that though.

Jay Borcha (18:31)

Okay. And I would make sure that you, you keep that access because what I don't want is anything to come in the way of you being able to keep a roof over the heads of your children, them getting to school and daycare so that you can go to work. This is a four wall situation. So let me just back up and explain. When you're up against it financially, there's four things that you need to be in and prioritize. The first one is, yeah, you got to keep shelter. So you got to make sure you're able to pay the rent, you've got to keep the utilities on. That's number two. You've got to make sure there's food. Right, you got to eat and you got to make sure there's transportation. And in a close fifth, John, is things like daycare, insurance, making sure that those things are going. So that's your top four and then five and six that, that I would throw in there as well. And if you can just keep that ship running and like John said, enforce those boundaries, I mean this is not going to be an easy season ahead. But I think for you, finding those areas of the things that you can control and the things that you can be responsible for, when you put your head down on your pillow at night, that's going to be life saving for you. And to know that you're going to be mama bear with these kids and say, hey, there's a lot of crazy going on but I am like the source of like steadiness and peace. That's the best that you can do for yourself and for your kids right now.

Dave Ramsey (20:12)

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Ken Coleman (21:12)

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Jay Borcha (21:28)

All right, right back at it. To James in Detroit, Michigan, the Motor City. What's going on, James?

Caller (21:35)

How are you doing?

Jay Borcha (21:36)

Doing good. How can we help?

Caller (21:40)

So my question is. So about two or three months ago, I kind of found the Dave Ramsey show. And I like what you guys preach as far as, like, working as a team. I'm married and I have two kids, and just lately I want to pay off debt, and I got my wife on board. I'm a police officer, and I just got a second job as well.

Jay Borcha (22:03)

Great.

Caller (22:03)

And I got the. So we did baby step one. We're working on baby step two. The only confusion that I have, and I don't know if there's a difference or not, is do I use those extra payments? And as soon as I get paid, do I put that towards my smallest. Sorry, I'm forgetting the word right now.

Jay Borcha (22:31)

That's okay.

Dr. John Deloney (22:31)

Yeah.

Caller (22:32)

My smallest. If I get. If I put that towards the smallest debt right away, or should I save up to amount? So, like, say it's $10,000. Do I put that. Do I save up $10,000 and then pay it all off at once? No, like, you. Okay.

Jay Borcha (22:47)

No, you can. You can do it as you go along. You can do it as you go along. So let's say what month are we in? April. So let's pretend that for April, you've paid all of your minimums, you've satisfied everything else on your budget that you need to satisfy, and you've got 500 dol left. You would then say, all right, just like I budgeted and just like I planned, I'm going to put this extra $500 on my smallest $10,000 debt. And now it's 9,500. And then you just go along like that. And the reason for that, at least in my mind, the reason for that is, number one, each payment that you make, it's. It's more exciting for you. Right. Every time you pay down that debt, you're like, yes, I see the balance go down. You get like that shot of adrenaline. You're feeling good about yourself. And then the other reason for that is simply just kind of like, I'm going to just say natural behavior, which is when you start stacking up a pack of a pile of money that's just kind of over to the side. Your brain wants to spend it on other fun things. And so just hurrying up and assigning that and doing what you got to do. It kind of keeps you from, you know, being left to your own devices with that money.

Dr. John Deloney (23:53)

And I'll. I'll throw in a third thing. If you get that payment down to 9,500 or that, that balance to the 9,500, that next month you're only paying interest on $9,500.

Jay Borcha (24:03)

Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (24:04)

And then the month after that, you're only paying interest on $9,000. Right. So otherwise you're going to pay interest on 10,000. 10,000. 10,000. 10,000 until you accrue that. So the actual amount of interest you're paying goes down, too.

Jay Borcha (24:18)

And just for the larger audience, what we're talking about here is the debt snowball method, where you're listing all your debts, smallest to largest, and make sure that you're doing this, guys, by, by the balance, the full balance, the full amount owned, owed. Don't list it by monthly payment. Certainly don't list it by interest rate. It is by full balance. And then, of course, in the meantime, you're paying minimum payments on everything, and you're throwing any and extra, any and all extra money at that smallest debt. And to James's point, we're going to do it as it happens. We're not going to wait and pile up that lump sum. So it's a very good question, James. Thank you for that. We've got Crystal, who's in Sioux Falls, Iowa. Hi, Crystal. How can we help today?

Caller (25:02)

Hi. So my husband has been following you guys since he was in high school. We're 25, so for about 10 years, and we've both been living the Dave Ramsey lifestyle. We have no debt. Our net worth is just shy of $690,000. We own a home outright that's worth about 170 to 180. And we're buying some land to build a home. And we're just trying to figure out if we slow down on maxing out our 401ks, which we've been doing, to save more money to pay cash for that, which could take some time, or I guess, what's the best option? Do we slow down on our 401ks to save more money and pay cash, or do we take out a construction loan, or what's your advice there?

Jay Borcha (25:46)

How much are you investing? Is it beyond 15%?

Caller (25:50)

So my husband is maxing out his 401k, which I'm not sure what it is right now, the 22,500, whatever it is, and I am. We're Both doing Roth 401ks and mine, I'm doing 60% of my income, which is the most that I can do.

Jay Borcha (26:05)

Okay. So I mean you could, you could essentially play this like, hey, we're going back to baby step 3B because I'm in you guys situation and I should probably ask, how much is it that you're trying to save up? What's the, what's the dollar amount?

Caller (26:18)

So that's the thing. We don't really have like a set dollar amount that we're wanting to save up to. So we're buying the land in the next probably year and we have the cash for that right now.

Jay Borcha (26:26)

Okay.

Caller (26:27)

So it's mainly just saving for building which probably between 500 to $600,000. So I mean realistically. Yeah, I mean realistically it could take us, I don't know, seven to 10 years to save that up in cash. I'm not exactly sure.

Jay Borcha (26:41)

And you're going to sell the current home, so that'll be part of it, right? The one that's worth 180.

Caller (26:46)

So no. So our plan was to actually turn that into a rental.

Jay Borcha (26:51)

I mean you could, but it's going to cost you a lot of time. I mean that's almost $200,000 they're tied up. So.

Caller (26:59)

Yep.

Jay Borcha (26:59)

What I would do, I would. First of all, we can't make a plan if we don't have real numbers or at least you know, as close to.

Dr. John Deloney (27:06)

This is how things get way out of hand on a, on a, on a build.

Jay Borcha (27:11)

Yeah, we need, I mean we need a budget. You guys get to set the budget and say this is how much? Based on our research, based on our numbers, based on our timeline, we are spending $450,000 or we're spending $550,000. So I think that's thing one to this entire question because then, so let's pretend, just for the purpose of today, let's pretend, hey, the budget is set. It's $550,000 that we are spending on this build. Okay. Now how do we get the money? Well, I personally, I'll tell you the truth, with what you guys have accomplished, I personally would have a lot of a hard time going into debt again. That being said, we don't, we don't poo poo on folks for going into mortgage debt if they do it the right way on a 15 year fixed rate mortgage where the payment is no more than 25% of their take home pay. Okay, like let me start by saying that that's what we suggest that's what we would tell most folks to do because most folks don't have the money to pay outright for cash, which is technically the. The best way you could buy a house. Okay. So I want to say there's nothing wrong with a mortgage, but in your case, I kind of feel like it might feel like taking a step back. You tell me if I'm wrong.

Caller (28:28)

No, for sure. And that's kind of. So my husband and I are kind

Caller (28:31)

of on two pages.

Caller (28:31)

My husband would like to. Yeah. Save up the cash, continue maxing out our 401ks and just, you know, slowly build up our cash and then, you know, a year or so before we are estimated to have that cash, kind of start that building process.

Jay Borcha (28:48)

Yeah.

Caller (28:49)

What's the timeline concern is what do you need to.

Jay Borcha (28:52)

What do you want to have it done?

Caller (28:54)

So like he says, like 20, 35. So that's like nine more years. Oh, my concern. Yeah. So my concern though, this is where the discussion comes into play. So the current homer, and that's worth the 170 to 180, is a three bedroom, one bath. We have no children at the moment, but we're hoping to start a family soon.

Jay Borcha (29:13)

Okay.

Caller (29:14)

And the, the kitchen is quite. We have one bathroom. And so, I mean, like, I know it's doable, but my concern is I work from home. And also that's true, I work.

Jay Borcha (29:24)

I hear where you're going, Crystal, but you. Here's the thing. We're just setting up an idea, a plan today. You can always reassess it, right? You can all always. Because the truth is there is no baby yet. There's no just inconvenience yet. It hasn't caused you a problem working from home yet. So what I think you can do is look at this and go, okay, let's set the plan first of what our ideal situation is and what the smartest play forward is. Then we can start to factor in, okay, here's some things that might cause that to affect our timeline and then you can start making contingencies for that. So what I would say is, okay, 550,000 is what we're spending. We've got a nine year horizon. Are you okay with nine years or are you thinking more like five years?

Caller (30:10)

I'm thinking closer to five years, but I just don't think we're going to be able to have like the 100% complete amount of. I think if we probably sold the current home run in because in we have the cash. Yes, most of it, at least And

Jay Borcha (30:22)

I like that for you. I think you run out. I think you run out both of these scenarios in your mind. And with your husband. Crystal I would do a nine year play and I would do a five year play. Obviously the five year play would cause you to sell the current house that you were going to use for a rental. And then I would say, well, what happens if being in this house with a kid does start to pose a problem? Then maybe instead of taking out a mortgage for, you know, $400,000, you're only taking out a loan for $150,000. Do you see what I'm saying? So you have options. This plan can morph over time. But I want you to start with a plan and start with an end in mind. And then you can make changes from there.

Caller (31:12)

Foreign.

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Jay Borcha (32:38)

Guys, we love hearing people's stories about how they're winning with money. And we have an encouraging review about our Every dollar budgeting app that I want to read to you. They said, hey, this app allows me to keep my budget and my goals organized. I love the projection on when we will be debt free and my estimated net worth. And it gives you something to work towards and gives you a light at the end of the tunnel. Man, that's great to hear. We really love that, guys. Really good things are happening when you're intentional with your money. You get to live like no one else. So later you can live and give like no one else. So make sure you start every dollar for free today in the App Store or on Google Play. Love that. While we're at it. Let's get to our Ramsey Show. Question of the day that's brought to you by why Refi defaulted? Private student loans can leave you feeling stuck and overwhelmed, but why Refi helps you explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate and a payment based on what you can actually afford. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey Remember, may not be available in all states.

Dr. John Deloney (33:38)

All right. Today's question comes from Denise in South Carolina, and it's a good one. Denise writes, I'm 76 and I have two children, a daughter that's 45 and a son who's 47. My will divides my assets equally, which is how I want it to be structured. My daughter is and always has been irresponsible with money. I'm now considering putting her share, about $500,000 in a trust to provide an income for her without giving her access to the principal. Is this the best way to provide for her or should I just let her have the same payout my son will get and let her blow it all on concert T shirts? Number one, don't hate on the concert T shirts.

Jay Borcha (34:16)

I know.

Dr. John Deloney (34:18)

I've got my own opinions on this. What do you think, Jade?

Jay Borcha (34:21)

I think that it's her money, meaning it's the 76 year old. It's Denise's money. And I think she knows her children and I think she gets to decide how she's going to divvy it up and if she has discerned that one of her children is responsible with money and can handle it, you know, being dispersed to them and that the other needs a little bit more guardrails. I think that that's her choice to make.

Dr. John Deloney (34:46)

Yeah. You get to do what you want with your money

Jay Borcha (34:50)

because you don't want it to be harmful.

Dr. John Deloney (34:52)

Right?

Caller (34:52)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (34:52)

And the challenge here is I've gotten this question before and someone's like my son is an alcoholic or my daughter struggle with drug abuse on a and this is one, I just don't like how she spends her money. She buys concert T shirts and whatever and I'm sure I know she's playing. But you get to do whatever you want with your money. And that means if you're going to take that responsibility, you have to take responsibility for being honest about what your plans are with your money before you pass away. And that means you have to be responsible for your daughter getting mad at you and not liking you.

Jay Borcha (35:28)

Yeah. Don't let this be a surprise from beyond the grave.

Dr. John Deloney (35:31)

Yes. Otherwise your son, who I'm assuming is responsible, gets all the blowback here. Mom's always treated you different, you know, and so your refusal to have this hard conversation about what you're doing with the money and how you're structuring it will, will like make in concrete that your son and daughter will never have a relationship either. Don't do that to anybody. And so if you're going to have the courage to say, this is my money, I'm going to spend it how I want to. Great, I love that. And that means have the courage to do the relational hard thing, which is tell the truth. I like the idea of saying, here's what I want this money to go to. And if you want to put it all in a trust and say, I'll pay off both of your mortgages, I will like put this in retirement. I mean, it accounts for kids, your kids, college for my grandkids, college. I like that. But again, it's your money. Do what you want to do with it.

Jay Borcha (36:25)

All right, I think that settles it. I like that response.

Caller (36:28)

Insurance.

Jay Borcha (36:28)

Let's go to Alex, who's in Tampa, Florida. Alex, how can we help out today?

Caller (36:33)

Yeah, thank you guys so much for taking my call.

Jay Borcha (36:35)

No worries. How can we help?

Caller (36:37)

Yeah, so me and my wife are expecting our first baby in the middle of June, so pretty soon here. And we are currently on baby steps five and six. And I just had a question as to what the best way to manage handling both of those steps are while being proactive with both, but putting one in front of the other. We're definitely trying to get the house paid off soon, but also want to be able to set our son up for a good life.

Jay Borcha (37:04)

Yeah, I mean, obviously for those listening, baby steps four, five and six are to be done simultaneously. So baby step four, you're investing 15% of your gross income every single month when you get it. At the same time, you're also putting aside a designated amount, whatever you decide, for furthering your kids education. And that could be in an ESA, that could be in a 529, that could be you just throw some money in a brokerage account, it's up to you. And then also simultaneously, you're denoting an amount that you're going to put extra on your mortgage. And again with that, you get to decide how much and you get to decide the frequency on which you apply that money. And it doesn't always have to be the same. I like patterns. So, you know, I like to set up A reoccurring pattern. But, Alex, for you, you don't. You can do this the way you want. So are you telling me that. Tell me right now what the plan is and how you're thinking about changing it?

Caller (38:00)

Yeah. So, I mean, I think the plan is to just put obviously, you know, an extra, like $2,500 towards the mortgage each month, and then, you know, probably, you know, a few hundred dollars every month towards like a 529 plan.

Jay Borcha (38:15)

I love that. I love that. Why does that bother you? What, are you concerned there won't be enough money for education?

Caller (38:23)

Yeah, I think coming up with the amount to do each month for like a 529 or for, you know, the baby in general is kind of a hard thing. We've been trying to come up with, like a number, and I think that's one. One area we've been getting stuck with.

Dr. John Deloney (38:35)

I mean, for college.

Caller (38:37)

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (38:38)

Just. Just take a million dollars and know that will probably cover semester one and books. Right. Like, yeah, who knows what. What it will be in 20 years. Right. Or 18 years.

Jay Borcha (38:50)

There's some projections that you could run if you want nerdy, but to John's point, it's still extremely. I mean, it's unknown.

Caller (38:56)

Right.

Jay Borcha (38:56)

All of that's a big guess. But you could run out some projections and say, my kid's going to go to college and I don't know, I'm not going to do the math, but in 2040, what will the cost of tuition be then? Right. You could do some things like that and run it backwards. But then there's also the variables of you might have kids that aren't cut out for college or they want to do trades, or they start their own business when they're 19, or they start

Dr. John Deloney (39:20)

implanting chips in our head in a few years.

Jay Borcha (39:22)

We've all been beamed up. Like, there's a lot of things that could happen by then. So I think what you're doing. Let me just say, I think what you're doing right now is working really well. And I think you continue to ride that train. And unless you look up and you go, oh, my gosh, it looks like he's looking like the type of kid who's going to go to college. Let's. Let's amp it up a little bit. Right? Whatever the plan is, you can always make changes to that plan. And I think that's the biggest part of this question. I don't know about you, John, but I feel like the biggest part of college more so than Having the amount set. I think conversations about expectations trump dollar amounts any day.

Dr. John Deloney (40:05)

It does. As a planner who lived inside the college system, I came up with a number that I wanted to try to hit. And then I regardless of what college costs are going to be, this is the number I can come up with. And then my son's just turned 16. He's a sophom. We had big conversation. We have conversations all the time, but we had big conversation about two months ago. In two years, regardless of what the cost is, this is what we're gonna have.

Jay Borcha (40:33)

Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (40:34)

And we even went down, like, as far to say, if you get this on your ACT and you get this much scholarship, I'll write you a check for this much when you graduate.

Jay Borcha (40:44)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (40:44)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (40:44)

So, yeah. So it's just being honest. And I'm in a fortunate situation. If you're in a situation where that number is 10,000 bucks and I'll be able to come up with 10,000.

Jay Borcha (40:56)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (40:56)

Tell your kid as early as possible. This is what I will have to contribute. And so if you don't want to pay anything, then we're looking at two years free community college and we'll figure out the rest. Yes, you've got to work two jobs, et cetera, or like, so it's being honest about all of it.

Jay Borcha (41:12)

Yeah, I love that. And that's exactly right. Even if you have zero dollars to put aside. My parents, and I've told this story before, I'll tell it again. And they told me early on they were like, hey, you don't have a college fund and we're not taking out student loans. Like, we're not taking out parent plus loans and you're not taking out student loans either. And so that told me, it was like, okay, I have scholarships. And they told me they're like, you better be good at sports or you better be smart, basically because you're getting scholarships. And that that seed was planted and that was what I worked towards. Now I was an idiot and I took out student loans just to pay for life, but I had full rights to college. Yeah. And so the point here is, talk to your kids early and often about whatever the plan is for college. If you don't have money and you know you're not going to have money, set the expectation. Hey, you're going to community college because college choice is the number one factor for being able to go to school and go to college debt free. So you're going to community college, you're going to a state college, you're working you're doing work study. We're not taking out student loans. You're getting scholarships. This is the way it's going to be done. Done. And if you do that, they're going to then morph their life to go down that path as well.

Rachel Cruz (42:30)

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Ken Coleman (43:46)

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio alongside the incomparable, the fabulous, the lovely Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited that you've joined us here on the Ramsey show today. And some of you are going.

Rachel Cruz (44:00)

We are not Jade.

Ken Coleman (44:01)

We're not. What happened to Jade? And John and I have great news. They're both healthy. They're right out here to my left in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. We got a camera on them so that the audience who's been watching are gonna watch. Oh, there they are. They're okay. They're safe, they're sound. And Rachel. And we should. Rachel and I just, I mean, about an hour or so ago, landed from Los Angeles.

Rachel Cruz (44:27)

Yes. We had an event last night in Seal Beach. We learned that.

Ken Coleman (44:32)

Seal Beach.

Rachel Cruz (44:33)

Seal beach, yeah. Close to Anaheim, but had an event last night. Awesome crowd. So fun.

Ken Coleman (44:38)

Phenomenal.

Rachel Cruz (44:39)

It was kind of our last tour stop of doing Ramsey show live, of doing Ramsey show lives, which was so fun. And yeah, we got up early. Early, early and early landed and we're back in the studio and because we made the efforts and the intentional decision to do that because we have some bittersweet News to share with our audience, Ken.

Ken Coleman (45:00)

We do. We do. So there's no other way to say it than just to say it. But today, this show will be the last show that I host of the Ramsey show, because my season at Ramsey is over, and it's been a phenomenal season. And let me just be very clear. I am doing what I have coached people for many, many years to do. When an opportunity comes to you, you should listen, and then you should weigh it, and you should weigh it based on. Is this something that. That I believe I have the talent to do? Is this something that I can enjoy? Will I love this work? And then finally, does it create a result that I care about? Can I measure all of those things and say, okay, this is something? And then you have to ask, is this a challenge that will push me? Will it? Will it push me in ways that haven't been pushed before? And what's on the other side of that? And without getting all the details, because of right now, I cannot get into details, and it doesn't matter. But stepping in a completely different lane.

Rachel Cruz (46:03)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (46:04)

Stepping into work, that is an extension of what I've done. But no longer in a public personality role.

Rachel Cruz (46:13)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (46:13)

And so here we are. And I want to say, I had to tell Dave a couple weeks ago, and it was such a sweet time. We spent a couple hours together, and I told Dave, and I want the audience to hear this. This opportunity that I'm so blessed to take would not happen if it wasn't for Dave believing in me. And that's huge. And we've had so much fun, and we've helped so many people. And so as we began to discuss. Okay, what does that look like? Dave and his grace and his goodness said, finish, finish strong. And so here we are. And so we flew.

Rachel Cruz (46:51)

Which is so weird that during the pandemic, it's been a couple of weeks since we've known.

Ken Coleman (46:55)

Yeah. But today's weird.

Rachel Cruz (46:56)

And today. Yes. And it is. It is so. So. It's so bittersweet. Yeah. Because from the bottom of our hearts, I know our team and, you know, John and Jad are saying, oh, my gosh.

Jay Borcha (47:08)

I don't want to get.

Rachel Cruz (47:09)

I've. I don't.

Caller (47:10)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (47:10)

Let me see.

Caller (47:11)

Hold on.

Rachel Cruz (47:11)

I know. Hold on one second.

Dr. John Deloney (47:15)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (47:16)

Everyone. Now, I was gonna say, though, everyone is so happy for you.

Ken Coleman (47:21)

Thanks.

Rachel Cruz (47:22)

We really are. Kent, we are cheering for you. You're gonna kill it, but we're gonna miss you.

Ken Coleman (47:29)

How am I supposed to talk?

Rachel Cruz (47:30)

I know it's Ken Coleman is One of these people, y', all, that he's like, we've all said it. George, John and Jade and I and Ken. We've been on a text thread for the last, like, couple years, obviously, and the word that keeps coming up consistently, Ken, for you is the glue. We say Ken is our glue. Like Ken. We every personality loves hosting with Ken. This show specifically, like, on our schedules, when you get the email for the week and you're like, okay, who am I hosting with? We love hosting with each other. Obviously, we all love each other, but when it's Ken, it's. It's safe. You're just like, okay, good. He's like your big brother. And you're like, okay. When we're on stage together, he can have chemistry with anybody on stage. He's a masterful interviewer, which is what he did even before he stepped into a Ramsey personality role. He's so good at connecting with people. And that is a gift, y'. All. If you have been on stage with people that are awkward and hard to talk to. It's hard. It's awkward. Hard to talk to. John's raising his hand out there. No, but Ken can bring. Bring the goodness out of anyone that he is with. And the fact that we've gotten to stand and sit beside him for so many years, it's gonna.

Ken Coleman (48:38)

Yeah, you're killing me.

Rachel Cruz (48:39)

There is. There's gonna be a whole kin and we're gonna.

Ken Coleman (48:42)

We thank you.

Caller (48:43)

You.

Rachel Cruz (48:43)

We're dearly going to miss you.

Ken Coleman (48:44)

Well, I. I never had a sister. Always wanted one. True story. I was nine years old. One day I said to my dad, said, I really want a sister. And I've got two. Rachel, we've known each other a long time. And the other one is out there in the lobby. Jade Borshoff. I mean, just like I love these two. They're so, so great. Great women, great friends, and, you know, it's. Jeez, I didn't know you were going to do this.

Rachel Cruz (49:17)

I didn't know I was going to cry either. We're just tired.

Ken Coleman (49:20)

So here we are. We got up at 4am this morning. We don't even know who we are. I do want to say this to the audience because we're going to continue the show. We're going to coach people. Is one of the loves of my life outside of my family and my friends is to meet people where they are. It is. It's the highest honor to have someone open up to you. You guys know, to trust you in a public setting. My goodness and the privilege to just be a small little encouragement to people is man. And to get paid for it. And it's just been such a high honor. And that's the honor to Dave. And I'll tell you, Dave and I cried. And then I went and hugged Ms. Sharon because you should tell him what actually should I tell him?

Rachel Cruz (50:26)

Yeah, because that's funny. When he caught.

Caller (50:27)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (50:28)

Oh, this will be good. Now we can laugh together.

Rachel Cruz (50:29)

Yeah, yeah, this is good.

Ken Coleman (50:31)

So I spent two hours a day, we just walked through it all. And then I said, I got up, we hugged, and I said, can I go tell Ms. Sharon? And he said, of course. And so he walks me into the kitchen, opens up the door from his. He's got this fabulous smoking room above his garage. And we smell like an ashtray. We were smoking cigars. He says, sharon, Ken wants to talk to you. And she said, oh, I'm in my house coat, Ken. And I love that. She called it a housecoat, by the way.

Rachel Cruz (51:04)

It is a housecoat. That's a Southern thing right there. It's not a robe.

Ken Coleman (51:07)

And I said to her, I go, let me see that. Because I think that's the robe that Stacy and I bought you.

Rachel Cruz (51:12)

And sure enough, it was, yeah, Ken bought Sharon.

Ken Coleman (51:14)

I gifted Sharon and Dave my favorite robe. Of course, that's what one does for friends.

Rachel Cruz (51:19)

And she had it on and she did. And I was like, how Sarah and did you do?

Ken Coleman (51:22)

So I came over to her and we had a sweet moment and got to give her a hug. And she was just so sweet and so kind. And so this is again, it's really, really bittersweet. And I'll say this, folks, sometimes you get opportunities. You don't know what God's completely up to. And I don't know how it's going to all play out, but you know, it's time, it's time to walk through it. So to all of you who said kind things, emailed. So many of our team are out there, they're making me cry. This is crazy. I love all of y'. All. And we're going to take a quick break, try to get ourselves together and then do the thing that we love to do do, which is meet you where you are today and coach you up.

Caller (52:28)

Foreign.

Dave Ramsey (52:34)

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Ken Coleman (53:45)

may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. All right, we're gonna go to Hunter, who's joining us now in Chattanooga. Hunter, how can we help you today?

Caller (54:07)

How are you guys?

Ken Coleman (54:08)

We're doing well. What's going on?

Caller (54:11)

So I'm a bit conflicted on what I should do as far as paying off my truck. You know, I've been listening to y' all since right after I bought it. And I know y' all say to attack, attack, attack, back at the debt. But my uncle, who is like another father figure to me, really, he says that he thinks I should wait for at least a year or two to build some credit before I completely pay it off.

Rachel Cruz (54:37)

Oh, yeah. So keep the debt around so your credit score stays somewhat at. At a good score is what he's telling you.

Caller (54:45)

Rock.

Rachel Cruz (54:46)

Okay. Do you know how a credit score is calculated, Hunter? And do you know why you use it, why you would need a credit score?

Caller (54:56)

I mean, I know it helps with like interest rates. I feel like on loans, but I don't know. I'm not a genius. I'm 20.

Rachel Cruz (55:03)

Yeah.

Caller (55:04)

Everything right?

Rachel Cruz (55:05)

Totally. Yeah. So. So the way mathematically your credit score is calculated, it has to do all with debt. So it's all the different types of debt you have, how, how you pay on those debts monthly, if it's on time, if it's not. I mean, all of it is centered around debt because you're right, they use that score when you go into more debt. So our line of thinking here at Ramsey is to live a debt free life, to not have debt. So you don't need loans, you don't need to get a personal loan or another car. Loan, you don't, you don't need debts because you live on less than you make. You have a plan and, and that is how you live your life. With money is debt free. Now one hangup people have is a mortgage. And a mortgage is the one type of debt we won't yell at you for. But you can do manual underwriting, so you can actually still get a mortgage with a credit score that is undetermined. So people that don't have a credit score, you can still get a mortgage. So all of that to say, Hunter, if you are a person that says, I don't want debt, you know I'm not going to be going into debt, then you don't to want need a credit score. You know my credit score, you know my credit score's undetermined. Now if you have a mortgage, obviously that will still come into play. But all that to say, yeah, having a credit score is kind of a moot point if you're not going to live with debt. But if you want to live with debt and you know you're going to be getting loans in the future, then maybe you would need it. But what, how are you wanting to live, Hunter? Not what your uncle says and not what other people say. How do you want to live with your money?

Caller (56:34)

Well, that was my thought. I didn't, you know, I've been listening to y' all like I said, since right after I bought the truck. So I definitely don't want that. I don't like it. And I was also gonna ask, how would y' all suggest paying it off? Because I met just over 9,000 left on it and I have probably 13 ish thousand total.

Ken Coleman (56:57)

Great. Is that your only debt?

Caller (57:00)

Yeah, that's the one that I.

Rachel Cruz (57:02)

Nice.

Jay Borcha (57:02)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (57:03)

Well, we would tell you to pay it off today when you hang up because you're still going to have money left over in savings. Right. And so that would be completing baby step two, since this is your only debt and now you know you're on your way to baby step three, completion. And you know, there's just no waiting on it since you've got the cash. What a wonderful thing to be able to do. Right. You can just get it out of your life right now. What's your car payment every month?

Caller (57:30)

I want to say it's 271.

Ken Coleman (57:32)

So now that's $271 raise that you just gave yourself.

Rachel Cruz (57:37)

Yep. So, yeah, I think you can respect your uncle and I'm sure he is a good man, but when it comes to Money. We just have different philosophies than your uncle. So you'll have to choose, Hunter. Which, which one you want to choose? A debt free life or are you going to keep a debt around to keep a credit score, to stay in the business and the cycle of debt.

Ken Coleman (57:57)

And because he's a father figure, I would tell you, you can honor him. You can say, hey, uncle, this is what I'm going to do. And since you guys are so close, he's going to weigh in on it and you can honor him and say, hey, here's why I'm going to do this and here's why I don't need a credit score. And you can explain that to him. And I think all he wants is the best for you. And it doesn't sound like he's not going to be supportive. It's just that he has influence over you. And so the way to do this is to just honor him. Explain it the way Rachel just laid it out in your words. And I think he'll be fine. And more importantly, you're going to be debt free and a lot more cash in your pocket as you start to make your way through life. How old are you?

Caller (58:38)

Just 20.

Rachel Cruz (58:39)

Oh, man, you're 20. Oh, yeah. Hunter, this is a lesson and I will tell you. So many people listening and watching right now, in their 40s, 50s, 30s, are like, I wish I had done this at 20. If you can just avoid debt, Hunter, and you just. And you have a plan, you start saving and investing and start working the baby steps. I'm telling you, you will be a multimillionaire when you before retirement. Like, it's wild. The numbers that can happen.

Ken Coleman (59:07)

So that's your homework assignment, by the way. Hunter, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on the investment calculator. Super simple, but you're going to be in that position and just start putting in some numbers, realistic numbers. And watch what Rachel's talking about about happen before your very eyes. You're in great shape. Thanks for the call. Let's go to Dotsy. Well, we just left that area of California out there. It is near Anaheim. Dottie, how can we help today?

Caller (59:33)

Hi. Okay. Sorry. I've been waiting a long time. I'm so excited. So basically my husband and I got out of debt in February of this year. One of the reasons we were able to get out of debt is we switched over to CHM Ministries for our health insurance. The only problem is they have a policy that if you are pregnant, your due date has to be after 300 days of being a member. Well, it turns out we're pregnant and our due date is before that time. So they can't cover the pregnancy and birth. And so my question is, how do we cash flow this? Because we just got the estimate from our midwives about what the cost would be and it's $24,000, which is not something that I think we can handle. Our due date is in October, so we have six months to kind of come up with a solution. I was thinking home birth. I'm a low risk pregnancy, thankfully. So I'm thinking home birth, birthing center, something that's not a hospital because that's where the main chunk is coming from.

Ken Coleman (60:41)

Okay, so just give us quick update. If you were to not have the baby at a hospital, how much would come out of off of that total?

Caller (60:49)

Yeah, so I checked one birthing center that I'm actually going to go to a consultation today. That would be around 8,600 for the entire thing.

Ken Coleman (61:00)

Could you guys get 8,000, call it 8,500 before October?

Caller (61:05)

I think so. However, it's still with pregnancy. I know Rachel knows this and you have kids, Ken, but with pregnancy there's always the risk. Even with a low risk pregnancy.

Rachel Cruz (61:19)

Oh yeah, for sure.

Caller (61:19)

I would have to be transported to a hospital. And so how do we prepare for those that emergency?

Rachel Cruz (61:26)

Yes. Well, what I would say first, Dawsey, is we want you and your baby to be safe. So whatever that looks like for you all in a situation is you need to go forward with the safest option. Right. Life is the most important thing in this equation over money. Okay. So you guys need to make the best decision for you all. But because of your circumstances, you're gonna have to know ahead of time, hey, if this happens, plan A, plan B, plan C, here's probably what we're gonna owe in medical bills. And it is so difficult. Cause medical bills, you know, a lot of people face that. That is part of their debt snowball. And so what I would say is whatever you can save between now and then and save as much as possible, save over the 8,000. I mean just as much as you can. And then I think my goal would be for you to be healthy, for baby to be healthy. And then we pick up after everyone goes home and everyone's good. Then we look at our financial situation then. But yeah, that is a hard one. I wasn't sure about that.

Ken Coleman (62:32)

Yeah, because in a situation like that, I love that they went with Christian Healthcare Ministries, but this is one of Those deals where life has thrown you a curve ball.

Rachel Cruz (62:41)

Yep.

Ken Coleman (62:41)

And you're gonna have to, you know, make do on that. And that's tough. Hopefully everything goes well. I love that you've done your research. I had no idea that there were like birthing centers. This is like breaking news.

Jay Borcha (62:54)

Wait, what?

Rachel Cruz (62:55)

You didn't know this, Kim?

Ken Coleman (62:56)

Well, the way she said it sounds like it's at a strip mall or something like a birthing center. Like you just roll into the parking lot and you know, you're the 2:30.

Rachel Cruz (63:03)

So it's basically like it's not a home birth, not a hospital. It's like it's the middle option that people feel.

Caller (63:08)

Feel.

Ken Coleman (63:09)

Is it like a clinic?

Rachel Cruz (63:10)

Yeah, I mean, I think so. I didn't, I did not have. I didn't go to a birthing center for. But it's people that don't want to do.

Ken Coleman (63:16)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (63:17)

Traditional much I appreciate, you know, medicine. And they want to do a different route. More of a natural route, I would say. Is the birthing center.

Ken Coleman (63:23)

Is the home birth even less money? I guess.

Rachel Cruz (63:26)

Yeah. You're just.

Ken Coleman (63:27)

Just some more.

Rachel Cruz (63:29)

Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Ken Coleman (63:31)

So it's like pioneer woman.

Rachel Cruz (63:32)

That's why I'm saying like do the safe option of what you believe in and then you can worry about the money after,

Dave Ramsey (63:51)

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Ken Coleman (65:24)

All right, we're going to go to Indianapolis where Beth is waiting for us. Beth, how can we help today?

Caller (65:30)

Oh, hi. Congratulations, Ken, on your new venture. Thank you, Rachel. I love your show with George. It's really relatable.

Rachel Cruz (65:39)

Oh, thank you, Beth.

Ken Coleman (65:41)

We should have had a cocktail today, shouldn't we? Beth, this was the day.

Caller (65:45)

Like what a day to call in. They're both bald.

Ken Coleman (65:48)

I know, I know.

Caller (65:50)

More sadness.

Ken Coleman (65:51)

I know. We're going to try to. Don't bring it up again. I might start crying right now. Beth, we just never know. You never know how it's going to go. Thank you for listening. How can we help?

Caller (65:59)

Yeah. Oh, I'm just. I've really started to notice how close retirement is. I'm basically 56 in a couple of days and I only have $27,000 in my 401k currently. And I am just nervous and wondering if you've had experience with callers who've been in this position and if you followed up with them in 15 years,

Rachel Cruz (66:33)

they're living comfortably, that would be a good reality show. We should have done that. We should do that going forward. Okay, so bet, from a financial perspective, how are you financially? Do you have debt? Do you still have a mortgage? Kind of. Where are you at?

Caller (66:50)

That's right. Okay. I am on step two. The only debt I have is my mortgage. It's 155k, house value is about 250, 270k. And I have a roof loan, 15k debt that I really stupidly signed up for a 20 year loan. I just, I just wasn't. I don't know.

Rachel Cruz (67:20)

You weren't thinking.

Caller (67:20)

Yeah, totally. Three years ago and now I am and I've run some calculators and I can save about $15,000 in interest if I attack it going forward. So that's my plan.

Rachel Cruz (67:35)

Okay, so your 15,000 from the roof is really your baby step two because we don't count your house inside a baby step two. So it's really just that $15,000 roof. Do you have any other savings besides this 27,000 that's in your 401k?

Caller (67:49)

No, it's been week to week for my entire adult life.

Rachel Cruz (67:55)

Oh, wow.

Ken Coleman (67:55)

Wow. Single income.

Caller (67:58)

Oh, 66K. So, you know, it's not terrible. I've just been the sole financial provider for a couple of. Well, they're not kids anymore. Technically they're 18 and.

Rachel Cruz (68:15)

Well, okay.

Caller (68:18)

And she did do. I had my daughter in private school, high school. She went to public school K through 8, but it was Just a much better fit high school. So anyway.

Rachel Cruz (68:31)

Yes. Okay. So what I would tell you, Beth, is. Yeah, the. Yeah, you'll probably still be working, I would say, for the next foreseeable future. Are you in a pretty steady position of your job? Like if you had to work another 10 years, are you in a good spot?

Caller (68:46)

Oh, oh, I'm so fortunate. I, I work from home for a major insurance company. So it's, it's quite secure.

Rachel Cruz (68:54)

Okay, great. How much? So you are kind of, you are paycheck to paycheck. So there's not a lot of margin that you have to throw at this 15,000. So that's the first goal I would have for you is to get $1,000. Put that aside in a high yield savings account. You can open up with Fairwinds. Actually, like there's a smart bundle and so they have a great high yield savings account in that smart bundle. So Fairwinds is a good spot and you can just put your thousand dollars over there in that high yield savings. And then we got to figure out, okay, how do we work extra? What expenses can we cut? There may not be a of lot to cut, so it's probably going to be from the income side, which actually Ken probably could speak to some of that. But getting your income up and having a goal, I mean, Beth, if you could have a goal to make an extra, I don't know, two grand or something, you know, you just think by the end of this calendar year, if that 15,000 is paid off and it's done, then we can really start looking to cash flow and emergency fund and start throwing a ton at retirement because that's going to be huge. But the faster you get out of those 15. 15,000 roof loan.

Dave Ramsey (69:55)

That's right.

Rachel Cruz (69:55)

The quicker you can get to saving more for retirement in that 401k.

Ken Coleman (69:58)

One of the things I wanted to know is you said you've been living kind of paycheck to paycheck. And so I'm wondering, is there anything you can cut? And I'm not going to make you list it out for us, but it's more of a general question. Do you feel like you could be tighter or are you as tight as you can be on spending?

Caller (70:16)

Well, I personally, for myself as the mom, I'm very fruitful. But I do give in quite often to my teenage daughter, especially the first two years of high school. You know, their eyes are bigger saucer plates for everything they see on social media. But I just finally wised up to myself and for the Past two years, you know, she's pretty much paid for anything. But Anyway, since she's 18, just to be honest, once. That'll be a huge.

Ken Coleman (70:50)

So what kind of. Okay, so let's just run some quick numbers. You don't have to lock these in, but what kind of mark margin would you now have even if we just said today you're not. Other than the basics, how much could you put extra towards the snowball?

Caller (71:05)

Well, I'm planning, like, once she's kind of. Not when. Once high school tuition is gone and I'm not spending on her, I can probably put 800 to the roof loan monthly. And then after my other expenses, I think I would have about three or 500 left.

Ken Coleman (71:25)

Okay, so let's just say for conversation.

Dr. John Deloney (71:28)

Okay.

Ken Coleman (71:28)

And again, you need to do your own exercise on this after the call. But let's just say we came up with $1,000 a month. And I think we could find it in those numbers you just gave us. Okay.

Caller (71:39)

I think so, too.

Ken Coleman (71:40)

Absolutely. So now all of a sudden, that's $12,000 a year just on what's coming into you now from your day job. Okay, so now we move into. Okay, what can you do? What. What is your profession?

Caller (71:55)

I work for a health insurance company. I just review hospital contracts. I've actually been with them for. Since 1998, which is why it's so probably shocking to you that I only have 27,000 in my.

Ken Coleman (72:14)

No, no, we certainly understand. I guess what I'm trying to get at here is, is. Is if that's clerical type work or administrative type work, could you pick up to Rachel's point, 15 to 20 hours a week? At this stage of your life, you have the freedom because Your youngest is 18.

Caller (72:30)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (72:30)

So now, extra, extra. So here's where we're going. Could we make. And I'm putting out some general numbers, Beth, that aren't too big so that you can hopefully grasp this. But let's say you made an extra two grand a month. Okay, now that's. See, now you're with us, right? So now we're talking $24,000 gross on top of $12,000 a year. And I just wanted to put real numbers to Rachel's advice because she gave you a wonderful plan, but you're going to have to get super intense because you are 56 or soon to be 56. And so we want to get that nest egg up. And so you want to be in a position where you're throwing a lot of money away. And let's Say we get through the loan and now we get to the emergency fund and now we're just straight, baby, where you're just throwing money. You know, how much could you invest? You have to ask yourself, how much could I invest on the other side of those two steps? And now you've got a chance to stack cash for the next 10 years.

Caller (73:33)

Yes. And that is my goal. And I do have a couple of applications out for part time.

Rachel Cruz (73:40)

Oh, good, Beth. Yeah.

Caller (73:41)

My life is about to be freed up. It's just going to be a whole new world.

Rachel Cruz (73:44)

And what's crazy too is if you keep throwing that extra money and maybe you get a raise with your 66,000 doll, that you could have your home paid off in four years, too. And so if that. How much is your mortgage? How much. How much is your mortgage payment a month?

Caller (73:57)

Oh, my gosh. Well, it's 1100.

Rachel Cruz (74:01)

Yeah.

Caller (74:02)

And my mortgage would go until I'm 82. Does not seem right.

Rachel Cruz (74:07)

Yep. Nope. So we're going to pay. We're going to continue kind of a little bit of this intense. You're going to have some intense years coming ahead. Bed, Beth, because we got to play a little bit of catch up. And so after this. Yep. After the roof, Scarlet on funding 15% of your income into retirement, throwing some at the house. Get that house paid off in three to four years if you can. And then you can look up and be okay. Now I'm going to just like throw everything at this and then, and I mean, we're throwing years out there, but you look up that you do all this in five years. That's right. And then you work another five and you throw more cash at retirement. That's a, that's a decade long. That can change completely your financial future, Beth, because you're doing something, something completely different than you haven't, than you've ever have. So, yeah, call us back if you need us, Beth, but we're cheering you on and the numbers are there. It's just going to be the kind of the sweat equity, if you will, the hard work to make it happen.

Ken Coleman (75:30)

All right, folks, Buying or selling your home is a big deal. You know that. And there's a lot of clickbait stuff out there that can get you trapped, give you some opinions that are going to hurt you, a lot of headlines that aren't even accurate or up to date. And we're here to make sure that the latest trends are easy to understand. So if you want to know what happened last month, the average 15 year fixed mortgage rate ticked up a bit to 5.56, but still below 6%. Median home prices went up to $415,000 last month, which is typical in a spring market. So that gives you an idea of some of the headlines and we want to make sure you're getting accurate information for the decisions you need to make. To learn more about the housing market trends and you can get free tools that'll help you buy or sell, go to ramseysolutions.com market. That's ramseysolutions.com market. All right, Lauren is up next in Salt Lake City. Lauren, how can we help you today?

Caller (76:24)

Hey, thank you guys for taking my call. So my question is, should I move out of my parents house when I have done debt?

Rachel Cruz (76:32)

Oh, it's a good question.

Ken Coleman (76:33)

Wow. Tell us more. How much debt?

Caller (76:36)

So I, yeah, I'm a real estate agent and I've been a realtor for about three years. This is the first year that I'm consistent. So I'm like making money now and I have about $10,500 in credit card debt. I don't have student loans and I've been listening to your guys show for a while. So I, I started the beginning of the year with 20k in the debt and I know it's a lot because like I live with my parents don't charge me rent and so I calculate like all of my numbers. I just have them here for you guys. So right now I have about $111,000 cash that sits in my business account. Just because I don't really know what to do when I get my cash, especially with my job and income. Like I would say I make around 40 to 60 thousand dollars a year. But, but it's variable and like I said, this is my first year consistent. How many include my car.

Ken Coleman (77:32)

How many houses did you sell to achieve that number?

Caller (77:36)

I'm just curious, what number of debt?

Ken Coleman (77:41)

What you made? No, what you made. I know it's your first year. I was just curious how many houses you sell to make that income.

Caller (77:48)

Yeah, so I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. Our median home price is 515. And for this year I'm already at about 400 houses with one pending.

Ken Coleman (77:59)

Okay, but what I'm saying is, is that going to put you ahead of what you made last year?

Caller (78:07)

Correct? Yes, I'm already on track. Like last year my income was all over the place.

Ken Coleman (78:12)

Right.

Caller (78:12)

Because I was kind of still working part time at another job. I worked for a builder and then I got right back into residential. So Now I'm a solo realtor, so from about December to now, I'm only doing real estate.

Ken Coleman (78:26)

Right. And a modest guess. What do you think you'll sell this year if you were to project out?

Caller (78:34)

Yes, I think I will make around 50. Well, that's also me being like, you know, this is my first year consistent. I may be a little scared, but I'd like to say 50 to 60,000 for the year.

Rachel Cruz (78:47)

Okay, perfect.

Ken Coleman (78:48)

We just want to know kind of what your income situation is, because it's important to how you get out of this and how quickly. Quickly.

Rachel Cruz (78:53)

Yep. Okay, so you're. So you're keeping the $11,000 cash you said in my business account. Are there business expenses you have or is this more when you said. Because you also said in the same breath, I just don't know what to do with all my cash, so I'm just putting it away. So when you say business account, what are you using this money for when it comes to your business?

Caller (79:12)

Yep. So you're absolutely right. It just sits in my account. And I have, like, automatic transfers that do my car payment, my phone bill. So you have a car payment, expenses.

Rachel Cruz (79:22)

You have a car loan?

Caller (79:23)

Yes, I do.

Rachel Cruz (79:23)

Okay, how much is the car loan?

Caller (79:25)

Yes. So I owe $19,000 on my car. My car payment is 380amonth.

Rachel Cruz (79:30)

Okay, so it's not really a business account, it's just your. It's. It's a type of checking that you're living off of, right?

Caller (79:38)

Pretty much, yeah. Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (79:40)

Okay, so if I were you, how old are you, Lauren?

Caller (79:45)

I'm 26.

Rachel Cruz (79:46)

26, okay, great. And you've already paid off 10,000 in debt already this year in four months.

Caller (79:51)

Months. Correct.

Rachel Cruz (79:53)

That's amazing. Okay. Well done. Okay, so here's probably what I would do. You have 11. $11,000 cash if you. If you do the Ramsey plan and you do the baby steps. I mean, by today, I would pay off the credit cards because your interest rate. How much is that on the credit cards?

Caller (80:13)

Yeah. So my interest rate on my credit card is 27%.

Ken Coleman (80:18)

Ouch.

Rachel Cruz (80:18)

Yes. Be done. Be done. Cause you're paying so much in interest. Interest. Like I would pay that off today, Lauren. And you're gonna have a thousand dollars, which is gonna freak you out. And that's okay because you're making some money. And then I would. And then I would be okay with you. Ken may have a different opinion because of how quickly you have paid off debt. I would be okay with you staying maybe through the summer at your Parents and continue that same trajectory. And then come fall, even if you still have some on the car loan, because if you're. If you're kind of at that same pace, you know, you'll probably have around $9,000 left on your car. I probably still would look to see, hey, let me go rent somewhere. Because there's just something good about being 26 years old and out on your own. Yeah. So at some point, I would have a deadline to say, I'm going to move out. It doesn't have to be tomorrow. And maybe you kind of through the summer. And one reason I'm okay with you staying a little bit longer is because you actually are doing what you said you're going to do, which is to pay off debt. Because we call. We. A lot of people call in, Lauren, and they're like, well, I'm living with my parents. Parents. We're like, okay, well, how much have you saved or paid off? And they're like, not a ton. Maybe like $1,000 over three months. And we're like, what are you doing? Like, like, you're supposed to be saving rent and you're. You really are putting your money to something good that's being. That's productive. Right. It's not just, like, upping your lifestyle. So because of that sacrifice, I'm okay if you stay a little bit, but I don't want you to stay. I mean, past probably four to five, six months.

Ken Coleman (81:44)

I agree. Yeah. Lauren, we don't. What you don't. What you don't want to happen is, is that you fall into this rut of the comfort, and it doesn't have the same psychological intensity of being out on your own. And I think you need this right now. I like the safety, but I do agree 100% with Rachel. And I'd love to know, what do you think the real estate market is like right now? Residential homes in that area, is it a. Is it cooled? Is it just kind of, you know, moving along on an average pace? Is it above pace? Where is the market?

Caller (82:18)

Market?

Caller (82:19)

I would say it's an average pace. I don't obviously, like, interest rates are going higher, but in Utah, I'm seeing people get two to three houses under contract a month. So I know our market is active. You know, we do have a really good career base in Utah, so people are making money.

Ken Coleman (82:37)

Good. Okay. The reason I asked that is you, as a real estate pro who is full time, you can make yourself very, very wealthy. And, and so, you know, we talk about gazelle intensity on this show all the time.

Caller (82:52)

Right.

Ken Coleman (82:52)

And in your case, I want to see you getting mentored by some real estate agents in your area that be willing to take you under their wing. And you are trying to fill up your pipeline with everything you got in you. Because if you were to sell five or six houses in one month, what a major infusion of cash that would be. Yes or no?

Caller (83:14)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ken Coleman (83:16)

And then you get that going and so you could fast forward this entire process and you're only 26. So because you're in a decent market by your own admission here, I would be working like crazy to sell house list. I mean, I'd get in on every deal I could get in on because every time you get a commission check, you are just moving through the baby steps. And I love that for. For you. Love that for you.

Rachel Cruz (83:42)

Yeah. And you're in a great industry.

Caller (83:44)

I don't think I mentioned. So I do. I did follow the baby step. So I have about, I would say like $1600 saved. And that's not on top of the 11,000 that I have sitting in that account. So I'm trying to get something in there. I just didn't know what to do with that cash that I have on hand.

Rachel Cruz (84:05)

Yep. That's where I would. I would get out of debt. That's your number one goal right now, is to be debt free. Free. So any money you have and you have no expenses, like there's no.

Ken Coleman (84:12)

That's the good.

Rachel Cruz (84:13)

You're not paying. You know what I mean? You're not paying rent, utilities, all of that. Now you will eventually. So you need to be thinking through, okay, when that, when you do make that step, you need to do kind of a mock budget before, just to know. Because it'll slow down your. Your debt process. Right. It will slow down how much you're putting towards that because you're going to be paying rent and all of that. But that's okay because there is something about this dignity of, of being 26 and be and, and holding yourself right. And you can, Lauren, you are, you're. You can, you can afford it. So, yeah, I think if you just make a timeline, plan on when you're going to move out, put some numbers and then make a. Make some big goals like what Ken was saying. You can. I mean, you could go crazy and just say, what if I had this crazy goal of selling this? What would that look like? And put it down on paper.

Caller (84:58)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (85:22)

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Coming to you from the Fairwinds Cross Credit Union studio alongside Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. Thrilled to have you with us. The phone number to jump in. 8888-2055-2258-8888-25-5225. Darrell is going to start us off in Columbia, Missouri. Darrell, how can we help today?

Caller (85:44)

Hey, guys, I got a question for you. I don't owe me. My wife have no debt except for our house. And I'm debating on paying off the house enable or in order to do that, I have our emergency fund that has 22,000 in it, and then I have another savings account that has 28,000 in it. And I know that doesn't equal up to 70. Yeah, I'm just. I'm going to have a few more jobs come in in the next couple months that'll get me to that point. And I'm wondering if I should, you know, trade in my savings account to

Rachel Cruz (86:21)

pay off the house to pay off the mortgage. Well, that's exciting, the fact that this is even a possibility. So how much is left on the house?

Caller (86:29)

70,000.

Ken Coleman (86:30)

70,000.

Rachel Cruz (86:31)

Okay.

Ken Coleman (86:31)

So you're calling us today wanting to know if you can get ahead of this deal when we know in a couple of months that you're going to have it to be able to pay it off. So it's the difference between paying it off today or close to, because you don't have the full 70 there. So that's an interesting question. Question. What's going on? You just nervous you're not going to be able to get it done? Or like, what? What's the equation?

Caller (86:53)

No, well, okay, so there, there's a few other things going on. Okay. We've been in this house for eight years now. We've actually gone through the process of dividing up my property, and I do plan on building a house, another house on the north part of our property. Along with that, I am also in need of a truck. But at this point, I've just kind of looked at our mortgage. I'm like, man, I've got 70,000 left on the mortgage and I've got this much in savings. I'm almost there to paying off the mortgage. I'm just not sure what the right next move for me is.

Ken Coleman (87:30)

So is the 22,000 your fully funded emergency fund or is it the 28?

Caller (87:36)

The 22. Two.

Ken Coleman (87:37)

Is that three months or six months?

Caller (87:40)

I think that's closer to three months.

Ken Coleman (87:42)

Okay.

Rachel Cruz (87:43)

Okay. Yeah.

Ken Coleman (87:44)

I don't know.

Rachel Cruz (87:44)

It's just living on the edge.

Ken Coleman (87:45)

Darrell's just like, first of all, Darryl, you're doing it right. I. You know, if I'm you and you need a truck and you've got this additional cash beyond what. What kind of truck are you looking to buy? What. What would the cost be it.

Caller (88:03)

I'm looking at truck in the cost of 30,000.

Ken Coleman (88:06)

Okay, so you're almost there.

Caller (88:07)

Something finally that would be maybe reliable.

Rachel Cruz (88:10)

Okay, what's your truck worth now? Well, if you sold it or traded it in, probably not a ton. But what would it. What would it bring?

Caller (88:16)

I had. I had an old Suburban that I drove around and I just sold her for $3,000.

Rachel Cruz (88:21)

For three. Okay, so you don't have a car right now.

Caller (88:23)

I was happy to get rid of her.

Ken Coleman (88:24)

I love that you effectually called it her.

Rachel Cruz (88:26)

What a gal. What a cow that Suburban's been.

Caller (88:29)

Her name is Veronica.

Rachel Cruz (88:31)

I love that we knew she had a name.

Ken Coleman (88:33)

Let me say this. I wasn't going to say this until Darrel said this. So we had two Suburbans as the kids were growing up. You probably saw them in the parking lot from time to time here at Ramsey. And the first one was Betsy the Bird. And then we had a. It was kind of silver. And then we went to a black Suburban and we called him Bruce. So I like that Darryl has a name. Veronica. For the.

Rachel Cruz (88:55)

Veronica's gone now, but Darryl, how are

Ken Coleman (88:57)

you getting around right now since you. You sold poor Veronica?

Caller (89:01)

I have. I have another small car that.

Ken Coleman (89:03)

Oh, okay.

Caller (89:04)

That I use.

Rachel Cruz (89:05)

Okay.

Ken Coleman (89:06)

What do you think here? I mean, he's so close to paying the house off, but he needs a car.

Rachel Cruz (89:10)

Yeah. I mean, how bad do you need this truck? Could you wait another six months or do you. Are you like. No, I need a. I need to get it now.

Caller (89:18)

I'm on the fence. I'm doing. So I don't really necessarily need a truck for my job that I work at. However, I do have a size job that I do. I'm a professional land surveyor. And so I do use my car.

Rachel Cruz (89:31)

Okay.

Caller (89:32)

All my surveys and I go, is that okay?

Rachel Cruz (89:36)

So if we ran a couple of scenarios and said, let's say that 28,000 went to the truck. We're not going to touch the emergency fund. So that's off the table. So you're back now to kind of flat. So between now and in a couple of months, you said you have some jobs coming in. How much will you make off those jobs in the next couple weeks of. Of months?

Caller (89:54)

Close to. Close to 10,000 to 10.

Rachel Cruz (89:56)

Okay. Okay. So then you're down to 60,000 on the mortgage. And then how much, how much extra do you throw at the mortgage every

Caller (90:02)

month we are doing. I'm looking at my wife and I'm shaking her head. Not much. Couple hundred extra a month. And our mortgage is only, you know, principal and interest is like 670. Is the payment okay? I think actually we put 1,000 in there. And you know, the other part of that goes to.

Ken Coleman (90:20)

And what's the financial windfall that you mentioned a few minutes ago that you're expecting in a couple of months which would have gotten you over the 70. How much is that? Do you have an idea?

Caller (90:31)

Oh, how much am I plan on making?

Ken Coleman (90:33)

Yeah, you mentioned that was the extra jobs, the extra money you were thinking,

Rachel Cruz (90:37)

is that the 10,000?

Caller (90:39)

Yeah, that was that extra 10,000.

Ken Coleman (90:41)

Oh, it's just 10. That gets. All right, I got you.

Rachel Cruz (90:44)

Okay, so that's scenario one, Darryl, you buy the truck. Truck. And then you take the 10,000, throw it at the mortgage and you just kind of keep chipping away at the mortgage. So that's option one. Option two is you get a twenty thousand dollar truck.

Ken Coleman (90:59)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (90:59)

Throw an extra eight at the house. Right. You can change that up a little or you throw all 28 and then you'll have the 10. So yeah, you're close to 40 at that point. Only $30,000 left. So. Yeah, I mean, there's not really a wrong. I don't think there's a wrong scenario here. I think it's kind of just what you want to do. And we, and we don't say to be intense during paying off your home. So you're okay?

Ken Coleman (91:21)

Yeah, you're so close. If I needed a car, I'll just tell you what I would do. If I was in your situation. I had the cash for the, for the truck, I'd get the truck. Unless I could. I don't need it. And if you don't need it, to Rachel's point, then again, get it on the, on the other side of paying the mortgage off. But you're in such great shape.

Rachel Cruz (91:36)

What is your wife voice? Your wife's sitting there.

Ken Coleman (91:38)

She's sitting there.

Rachel Cruz (91:39)

What does she want? Yeah, to do?

Caller (91:42)

What does she want to do? Well, she's a little, she's a little nervous about paying off the house.

Rachel Cruz (91:47)

Why?

Caller (91:49)

Because it has, we have a good interest rate on it. And we're also obviously planning. Also obviously planning on building another house.

Rachel Cruz (91:58)

I wouldn't worry about the other house. Is the other house for you guys?

Caller (92:01)

Yes, I think we plan on moving in. It and then either renting this out, the one we're in now, or selling now.

Ken Coleman (92:10)

See, now that changes this conversation a little bit. Because do you really want to be a landlord and how much you, you know, I mean, is that really something you want to do? Or would you rather just sell the current house and on your property and then go build the new house? Like, what do you want more?

Caller (92:25)

Those are good questions and I don't have answers.

Ken Coleman (92:28)

Well, that's, that's why you need the answers.

Rachel Cruz (92:30)

In my head. You're jumping. You're jumping ahead. I agree with that. Second half.

Ken Coleman (92:35)

This is a steak dinner, candlelight, maybe a bottle of red. And you two sit down and weigh this out and go, okay, do we want to, to have the current home we're in as a rental property now? It becomes obviously real estate investment for you. That's cash and you don't owe a dime on it. Or do we want to move quicker into building other house? Do I need the truck now? Like, lay it all out there and get everybody's opinions in the middle of the table. You and your wife.

Jay Borcha (93:02)

Wife.

Ken Coleman (93:02)

And then just do the old school pros and cons and come up with the list and then execute on it.

Rachel Cruz (93:07)

Yeah. Because the truth is, Daryl, in five years, I think you're going to end up in the same place. I think you're either going to go down this road or this road or down the middle. However you get there, you're going to get there. And so there's not really a bad option here. So, yeah, it's kind of whatever you want to do with the 28,000. If you want to get the truck, get the truck you want throw at the house. Yeah, but you guys, you and your wife agree on it and say, does this get us to our long term goals faster or slower? And that may, that may be the difference.

Ken Coleman (93:35)

Real quick, Rachel, lady to lady, talk to his wife about that interest rate fear she has. What would you tell her?

Rachel Cruz (93:41)

Oh, I would have way less fear not owing anyone anything than having a mortgage payment. So that's my rationale.

Caller (93:53)

Foreign.

Dr. John Deloney (94:11)

Hey, good folks, Dr. John Deloney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So guess what?

Ken Coleman (94:19)

Guess what.

Dr. John Deloney (94:20)

Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing and creative roles. Check out all our job postings@ramseysolutions.com careers that's ramseysolutions.com careers.

Ken Coleman (94:55)

Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. Excuse me. And today we're going to break down the most asked questions from this week. Rachel we had some questions around retirement savings paying off debt, but the most asked question was around emergency funds. So the main question we got was where is the best place to store my emergency fund? That's a good question.

Rachel Cruz (95:22)

You know, and I get this a lot in, in the social media world like my DMs, I get a lot of questions about because we always talk about a high yield savings account is, is the best place because the money you can get to it if you need it but also it's making around probably 3, 4% depending on the account versus versus less than 1% just in a traditional savings account. So a high yield savings account is where it's at. And we love Fairwinds Credit Union. We've been partnering with them and they obviously are the studio sponsor of the show but they, they honestly probably have the best deal because they, they're doing a smart bundle where you get a no fee checking account and then you can get up to 10 high yield savings accounts. So for all the nerdy people like a George Camel who loves all his different, all his different savings account accounts, you know, for each little thing that he's doing and you can do up to 10 with fair winds and you get the debit card access. It's such an easy interface like their app and everything is great. So that's what Winston I use. We use Fair Winds. We love them and that's a great place to put your emergency fund in the, in their high yield savings account.

Ken Coleman (96:25)

Love it. So if you'd love to submit your question, go to ramseysolutions.com or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching via YouTube. Let's go to San Diego next where Tom is waiting. Tom, how can we help?

Caller (96:40)

Hey, so I have a question. I'm 52. My wife and I are in a pretty good financial position. I recently separated with my company about a year and a half ago and I'm deciding if trying to start my own company over at this age or just go work for someone and take a couple years and be fine. You know, coming from running a small business, it's tough to sell and get out. So I don't know if I want to grow something like that fast.

Rachel Cruz (97:06)

What would you grow. Do you know what you'd start?

Caller (97:09)

So I'm a plumber by trade and a mechanical and builder. So it would be in. In that field, which I have about 37 years of experience in.

Ken Coleman (97:18)

I love that. And my guess is 37 years of working for a good company, right?

Caller (97:24)

Well, actually, 17 years of it was being partners in a company where I was the minority partner and we had disagreements on where the company was going, and I wound up odd man out.

Ken Coleman (97:35)

Well, but I'm guessing that you had eyes on all the books. You have a pretty good idea how to run a company that you're talking about, correct?

Caller (97:43)

Oh, yeah. I was vice president of operations. I built all the accounting software, all the integrations and everything.

Ken Coleman (97:49)

So what I'm hearing, Rachel, I'm hearing want to, and I hear you got the how to. So now it's what is it going to take to get started? And I'm assuming you've run some numbers on that. So what do you think it's going to take cost to start one of these companies? We got you in a wind tunnel here. Say that again. You broke up really bad.

Caller (98:13)

Oh, I said the biggest problem is cash out of pocket for funding all these projects that owners don't want to pay up front. So you wind up with huge upfront cost. And my wife and I own two houses and have some money in the bank and don't have any debt. So do you want to start playing that game at this age? No.

Ken Coleman (98:32)

And I don't think. I don't think you have to play that game. I'm going to poke on that a little bit. Are we talking about plumbing? Let's pick one. Let's pick one. Discipline. Let's pick one trade for this conversation.

Caller (98:45)

So let's just put it this way. I specialized in healthcare, building hospitals and remodeling hospitals as a general and as plumbing and mechanical systems.

Ken Coleman (98:54)

Okay. But I'm saying this business. Let's say you have all the cash in the world to start today. What is the business?

Caller (98:59)

Business, probably plumbing and mechanical systems. You know, H VAC and plumbing.

Ken Coleman (99:03)

Okay. And it would be. And it would not be for residential. It would be corporate, correct?

Caller (99:09)

Yeah. Mostly commercial.

Ken Coleman (99:10)

Thank you. I couldn't come up the word. So if it's commercial. So what you're saying is. Yeah, and that's. That's really good money. And you're saying you would have to front because what they're doing is they're going, you go buy all the supplies, everything, and then invoices. That's what I'm understanding.

Dave Ramsey (99:24)

Understanding.

Caller (99:25)

Yeah. And the invoices are 30, 45 days before they pay 60 days. You know the contracts, they take a retention payment. So 10% out.

Ken Coleman (99:36)

I got you now.

Rachel Cruz (99:36)

Yeah. And those are, and those are big jobs, the commercial jobs. My father in law owns a heating and air company, but it's. He does some, some commercial, mostly residential. But I mean they have crews. So will you hire if you went down that route? Do you have people that you know, that you're like, oh yeah, I could hire these guys for this crew and all. I mean, because you're starting. I mean that's a, that's a big operation.

Caller (99:56)

Yeah, that's why I'm like. Or you know, we have, we own two homes.

Ken Coleman (100:00)

Okay, let's. Let's go down that road and a

Caller (100:02)

half bucks in the bank.

Ken Coleman (100:03)

You have how much?

Caller (100:04)

A million and a half.

Ken Coleman (100:06)

But is that retirement or cash?

Caller (100:08)

It's 401k in cash.

Ken Coleman (100:11)

Okay, well, we're not going to touch the 401k.

Caller (100:13)

No.

Ken Coleman (100:14)

How much cash? Parcel that out.

Caller (100:16)

900.

Ken Coleman (100:18)

You have 900,000 in cash. Okay. Between my wife and I. I understand. And then what if you sold one of the homes? What would you clear on one of them? The houses.

Caller (100:27)

Well, the one in San Diego, we probably wouldn't sell 2.4.

Ken Coleman (100:32)

Well, but I'm trying to it out.

Caller (100:33)

Right, right.

Ken Coleman (100:34)

But I'm saying to come up with some capital, I would absolutely look at selling one of those houses. If the sale of that home gave you that startup that you needed, that startup cost.

Caller (100:44)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (100:45)

And if you want to do it. Do you want to do. Do you want to start all this? I mean, I don't know, but that's a question.

Caller (100:51)

Risk reward is what's got me perplexed on it.

Ken Coleman (100:54)

Well, I know, and that's why we're

Caller (100:55)

pretty good financial position.

Rachel Cruz (100:57)

Yeah.

Caller (100:58)

Taking a big risk.

Ken Coleman (100:59)

What's your income right now?

Caller (101:02)

So we have some income property. We have about ten grand a month coming in.

Ken Coleman (101:05)

That's your only income is their properties? You're not working right now?

Caller (101:09)

I've been at work for a year and a half and I'm still getting paid off from my old company, which they're. They're buying me out.

Ken Coleman (101:15)

All right, well, Tom, we're having the hardest time with your phone, so I'll boil it down to this. Appreciate the call. We can't make that call for you. What you heard us do was walk through what your options are to come up with cash if you wanted to launch this company. But I thought Rachel was very insightful by just putting it to you and you're still going, I don't know if I want to do it. And so I will tell you, Rachel,

Rachel Cruz (101:38)

it's a big leap.

Ken Coleman (101:38)

If someone presents this to me and I'm coaching them, I'm going to say, all right, Tom. And this is, by the way, your wife's got to be in on this conversation. And I think we have to look at the effort, the risk.

Rachel Cruz (101:49)

Yes.

Ken Coleman (101:50)

And the capital outlay. Those are the big three. And there are emotions, there are logistics, there are consequences to walking through that checklist, Rachel.

Rachel Cruz (102:04)

100%.

Ken Coleman (102:04)

And if we walk through that checklist, those are the big three. You guys can get as specific as you want. But if we walk through those big three and we go, I still want to do it. If this is you, Tom, and then your wife goes, oh, okay, I'm in.

Jay Borcha (102:18)

Yep.

Ken Coleman (102:19)

Then I say go for it.

Caller (102:20)

Y.

Ken Coleman (102:21)

But let's mitigate the risk, Rachel.

Rachel Cruz (102:23)

100%.

Ken Coleman (102:23)

In other words, we gotta say, I'm risking this much.

Caller (102:26)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (102:27)

And at the worst case scenario, we only lose this and we're still okay.

Rachel Cruz (102:31)

Yeah. My. My only, you know, thought. And I think it's more of a personality thing, Ken, because at this point, money wise, they're fine. Like, he. He can go get another job. Yeah. All of it. But at this point, it's a personality, passion thing of. Yeah. I still want to get up and grind it, because when. When I. When he first said plumbing, electrical, I thought, okay, you know, he could probably start a small plumbing company, get one or two guys under them. They can go do some residential. He's like, oh, no, I'm doing hospital hospitals and massive commercial properties. So starting that, to me in my head went from a 2 to like a. You're right, a 9, 10. Like, that's a lot. But also it's doable if that's what you want in kind of the second half of your life, Tom. To grow something and sell it and, you know, that' if that's exciting and fun, that's great. Or if you look up and you're like, I'm 52, in four years, I'm probably going to want to retire. I may go work for someone, make some good money.

Ken Coleman (103:23)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (103:24)

Still make some good money doing it and then.

Caller (103:26)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (103:26)

I mean, chill.

Rachel Cruz (103:27)

But that's a. That's a personality thing too, you know,

Ken Coleman (103:29)

because that's a lot of effort. Remember that effort bucket.

Rachel Cruz (103:32)

That's a lot of effort.

Ken Coleman (103:34)

He's got a good paying job and he's clearing 10 grand.

Rachel Cruz (103:36)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (103:37)

In real estate property.

Rachel Cruz (103:38)

Right, right.

Ken Coleman (103:39)

So, Tom, I am a. Listen, I am always going to be the guy that says if my heart is telling me to do, do it, then I'm going to try to mitigate the risk involved because there's always risk.

Rachel Cruz (103:52)

But we're all for jumping into a new idea, aren't we, Ken?

Ken Coleman (103:55)

That's the theme of this show. The last person I worked for before Dave, John Maxwell, famously said, you got to give up to go up. And I think this is a situation where if you want to go up to start this business, you and your wife will be able to be on the same page about what we're giving up.

Rachel Cruz (104:12)

Yes.

Ken Coleman (104:12)

There's always a trade off.

Dave Ramsey (104:45)

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You work way too hard to be broke and feel broke and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the EveryDollar budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen. Starting now. Go download every dollar in the App store or Google Play and start for free today.

Caller (105:34)

Foreign.

Ken Coleman (105:49)

Folks, how you doing in your insurance? You know this. The right insurance acts as a shield around you and your loved ones if disaster strikes. Also protects that bank account. We've got a free Insight insurance coverage checkup that will allow you to figure out am I overinsured or am I underinsured. Both are great revelations. We'll help you out. Go to ramseysolutions.com checkup ramseysolutions.com checkup. All right, to Eric. We go in Des Moines, Iowa. Eric, how can we help?

Caller (106:21)

Hey guys, thanks for taking the call. So I've got a. I feel like I'm in a position to start investing but. But on paper it doesn't feel like it as well. So I've got an income about 156 to 200,000 years. Self employed. My wife's a stay at home mom, got two kids, one on the way. Our primary home and I have a rental property as well. So the rental property is worth about 425,000. The primary home is worth about 330,000. And the mortgages are 304,000 at 2.75% and. And 208,000 at 6.5%. And then I have about $54,000 in debt to my parents. Although I will caveat. I've got a great relationship with my parents. If anything were to ever happen, I'm confident they would just say either pause payments or they just forgive it. Anyway, rental property, it's cash flowing. My rent is. Or I charge 2,500amonth and my cost of the month is 2,000 bucks, so. And I've got about 80 to $85,000 in cash sit in the bank. So I'm trying to figure out. I feel like I should be putting money. Oh, sorry. In a Roth IRA. It's got about $100,000 in it.

Rachel Cruz (107:34)

Okay.

Caller (107:35)

So I'm trying to figure out. I feel like I should be investing more, but.

Rachel Cruz (107:38)

Yeah, you got a lot going on, Eric. My gosh. Okay, so let's.

Caller (107:43)

Okay, first off, give you the quick version.

Rachel Cruz (107:45)

No, it's great. No, we needed all those numbers. My, my question is, is your rental property worth more than your primary Mary home?

Caller (107:51)

Yeah. Yeah. So I bought a bachelor pad before I got married. I got married, my, had a kid and it was not a good fit for a, for a house. So yes, my rental property was my own house a while ago.

Rachel Cruz (108:03)

Okay.

Caller (108:03)

And then.

Rachel Cruz (108:04)

And how much do you owe? How much do you owe on it? How much is left on the mortgage?

Caller (108:09)

304,304.

Rachel Cruz (108:11)

Okay. And how much is on your primary home? How much is it worth or how much do you owe?

Caller (108:17)

208, 280,000 on the primary.

Rachel Cruz (108:20)

280. Okay. And the only debt you have consumer wise is the 54,000 to your parents, Right? No car loans, no credit card, student loans, none of that.

Caller (108:32)

Correct. All that. I did pay off my wife's student loans. That was, that was checkbox. So we did that to feel a little bit more relief from that.

Dr. John Deloney (108:41)

But yeah.

Ken Coleman (108:42)

So what's the. Anyway, you touched on this real quick. What, what is this burning desire with all the stuff you got going, you feel like you need to be investing for retirement? Is that what I heard?

Caller (108:54)

Yes. I used to be putting away a bunch of money. You know, when I had a standard W2 job, I was investing, obviously. I've got 100,000 in Iraq and 401k. Maybe 120. I don't know the exact number, but. But I stopped doing that ever since I've become self employed.

Ken Coleman (109:09)

Right.

Caller (109:10)

With this rental house and everything going on, I've got. Got technically have the cash, but we're trying to save up about 100,000. My wife's not a big fan of the current house that we're in.

Ken Coleman (109:21)

And how familiar with the. How familiar with the baby steps are you?

Caller (109:27)

Admittedly, I went through FPU a long time ago, but that was pre everything, so not. Not a ton.

Ken Coleman (109:33)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (109:34)

Okay.

Ken Coleman (109:34)

Okay.

Rachel Cruz (109:37)

Gosh. Okay. So I always run these scenarios, Eric. If I woke up in your shoes, okay, and you called. You called our show. So if I woke up in your shoes, Eric, here's what I would do. I'd pay off your parents tonight, and that brings your savings down to 28,000, which I would count as probably your fully funded emergency fund. You may want to throw a little bit more in there, but we can just set that in a high yield. We're done. Wife is not happy in the home. And I would. I would run for simplification personally of where you guys are. I probably would look to. To sell the rental. You'll make about 120, probably 100 after fees and everything. The home you're in now, you'll have some equity. I mean, you could throw possibly 175ish at a new home. And you guys start, you know. Yeah. Having, you know, having that over here. And then you go and you start investing 15% of your income, and you got. Do you guys have kids?

Caller (110:37)

Three. Two and one on the way.

Rachel Cruz (110:39)

All right.

Ken Coleman (110:39)

Oh, my gosh.

Rachel Cruz (110:39)

Yeah. And start working, you know, putting some money away for college for them and just start working the baby steps. But that's me, Eric, again, everyone has a different thing.

Ken Coleman (110:48)

I think I can feel on you, Eric, the stress that you have in

Rachel Cruz (110:52)

your life and a new baby coming to you.

Ken Coleman (110:54)

Am I feeling this, or is it just bad pizza? What's going on?

Caller (110:58)

Oh, no, actually, I love this. I love all of this. Managing and keeping track of all this.

Ken Coleman (111:03)

Okay, so you do love the. But you do. Okay, so you may not feel it, what I'm feeling, but you do want to simplify a little bit? You, you, or you. Or you're trying to at least strategize on how do I invest for retirement. And you just can't do all of this at once and do it well.

Caller (111:19)

I. I'm worried that if I am, I, you know, I always hear, you know, if I had $100,000 early on in a retirement, it'll grow even if you don't invest anything. So I feel like I've checked The box of investing. But I feel like I should still be investing.

Rachel Cruz (111:32)

I've got cash flow.

Ken Coleman (111:33)

You should, but you're tapped out with everything else going. Going on.

Rachel Cruz (111:38)

Yeah. The goal is to be funding 15 of your income into retirement, consistently continuing to build up that. So that's. But that's after you're debt free with an emergency fund which could happen tonight, you know, so. So if you walk through the baby steps. Yeah. I think there's a non negotiable here that the 54,000 needs to be paid off. And even if it's a great relationship with your parents, all of that be done, just be done with it. You'll have your fully funded emergency fund of 28,000. So that's a non negotiable. Now the next, the negotiable part, which is where we could maybe be different and that's okay is do you keep the rental property or not? But you need to be investing 15% of your income into retirement and then looking at this rental property and what you and your wife want, what do you guys want to be in five years? Do you want to be landlords and you know, still have this property and hopefully be paying it off? Because you need to be paying that. You should be paying that off even before your primary home.

Caller (112:30)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruz (112:31)

But yeah, it's just a lot of real estate and depending on what you want to do. Eric. Right. If you want more money in the market or, or some there. Do you enjoy the rental property?

Caller (112:42)

Yeah, well, I'm. Luckily I've got great tenants right now, but I know that could theoretically change. Yeah. And I, I'm handy so any, any repairs and stuff I'll do myself. So.

Rachel Cruz (112:51)

Yeah. So. So having a second home long term is good with both of you. That's like part of your portfolio that you're good with.

Caller (113:00)

That's correct. I feel like that's what I'm investing in right now. But yes.

Rachel Cruz (113:04)

Yep. So. So yeah, the only change up I would do is, is start putting 15% away into your. That's going to be your Roth. And then do you have a 401k at your work?

Caller (113:14)

Yes.

Rachel Cruz (113:15)

Yep. So those two, those two buckets need to start being filled consistently 15% of your income. And then above that is where you start paying off these, this real estate.

Ken Coleman (113:25)

So, you know, I'm just reminded of this old saying and you know, you love my old saying, so I feel like I gotta give you another one.

Rachel Cruz (113:31)

Yes. Before we end his old man.

Ken Coleman (113:35)

Here we go. If you chase two rabbits, you lose Them both. And it feels like you're trying to chase all the rabbits right now. And you're doing. Sounds like you're doing a good job. Not criticizing you, but I think you have to decide again, what are my priorities? What matters most to me right now? How old are you, Eric?

Caller (113:57)

32. Yeah. 33. Excuse me.

Ken Coleman (113:59)

My man, you are really young, and, you know, you can have it all, but rarely does someone have it all at the same time. And that's my encouragement to you. I hope you hear encouragement, not criticism, but I think that's what you're facing right now. Rachel. Nailed it. You two need to sit down together and decide, what do we want right now? And then what do we want in the future?

Rachel Cruz (114:22)

And $600,000 in real estate debt. So whether you feel that or not, that's, That's. I mean, that. That's out there. You know what I mean? So depending on how quickly you guys say we're going to keep these, but we're going to pay them off in the next four to five years, you know, and get radical and do what we can to get rid of. To get rid of that debt, especially that. The rental property one. But yeah, I don't know, Eric. I. There's just always time to invest in real estate in my head. Do you know what I mean? And do it with cash. And do it with cash.

Ken Coleman (114:54)

I agree.

Rachel Cruz (114:54)

And there's just a lot of strain happening. And in your life, too, right? You got two little kids and a baby coming. Yeah. And I've been there. And there's just something about solving for peace. When Dr. John Deloney says that, let's go solve for peace.

Ken Coleman (115:07)

And you know how to get that? Many times. Just simplicity, simplicity. I know, but he's 32. I love it. He's trying to.

Rachel Cruz (115:13)

The hustle's great.

Ken Coleman (115:14)

I love the Hustle, but I. I would downshift it into simplicity, and I think that'll be the piece that you're looking for. Thanks for listening and. And hope we helped you out.

Dave Ramsey (115:39)

Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with ask Ramsey, ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try AskRamsey today. That's ramseysolutions. Dot com.

Ken Coleman (116:30)

Our scripture of the day comes from Psalm 90, verse 12. Teach us to number our days that we may gain a heart of wisdom. And the quote of the day. They snuck this in on me. I don't even remember saying this, but it's my last segment on the Ramsey show.

Rachel Cruz (116:46)

I know.

Ken Coleman (116:47)

So I guess we close with one of my quotes. So dream big, ask for help, embrace failure. Take the shot and continue to climb one step at a time. Well, that's appropriate. Wow, Ken, so quick, quick rejoin. We opened up this hour. Oh, no. Two hours ago. It's gone by that fast. It's my last time on the show as a co host, and I'm so glad it's with you. Ending 12 years of service alongside Dave. You so many amazing people here on the team. And so it's, uh, quite weird, quite surreal.

Rachel Cruz (117:30)

It's bizarre.

Ken Coleman (117:30)

We already cried earlier. Earlier.

Rachel Cruz (117:32)

Boohooed.

Dave Ramsey (117:33)

We boohooed.

Rachel Cruz (117:34)

I can't get through this segment.

Ken Coleman (117:35)

Yeah. So what a joy it's been. And I'm so glad that I, if. If I wasn't with Dave, who's out of the country, it's with you. And so thank you.

Rachel Cruz (117:45)

I know.

Ken Coleman (117:45)

Ken, thank you for being here with me today. Thanks for all the. The great memories. We've had. Some incredible memories. You helped a lot of people.

Rachel Cruz (117:51)

Yes, yes.

Ken Coleman (117:52)

And that's what's fun.

Rachel Cruz (117:53)

Well, it's such a. It's such a unique thing when you get to work and do this kind of work, which is a little unique together with people that you just love and you respect and you care for and, you know, we're just talking. I think we met 18 years ago. You've known, I think, Dave longer and I, you know, and your family was walking in and seeing Josie. I mean, I just remember, you know, you know, Josie being that big and Ty and Chase and Stacy, who we just love so much. It's like the whole package. And I think that's what's the bittersweet part when. When. When we're the ones being left. Leaving us. So we're. We're being left. Yeah, but you do. It's just the familiarity of who you are and what you bring to the table. So not only do I want people to know, though, for real, that, thank God, all of our personalities I can say this about, but for you specifically today, you are what you get. And the people on the show that you, you know, that have followed you from the beginning of your journey here at Ramsey, or maybe they just joined in a month ago, and you've been hosting here or front row seat, who Ken is in front of a camera, on a stage, in front of a microphone. Is. Is him outside of this with his family, with his friends. And that level of integrity is something you don't get all the time.

Ken Coleman (119:16)

Well, thank you.

Rachel Cruz (119:17)

Especially in this kind of job. And so that I want to say that, Ken, but also just. But focusing on what you have done these 12 years and everything from the books and the shows. I'm just curious from you, what's been one of your favorite things about your job? Like, what do you.

Ken Coleman (119:32)

Oh, it's not even close.

Rachel Cruz (119:33)

What do you look back at and you're just like. It's that.

Ken Coleman (119:35)

It's this. It's not even close. It is when you experience a person on the floor phone in this format or at a live event like we were at last night in. In Long Beach, California. When someone gets vulnerable enough because they're. They're not where they want to be many times in pain.

Rachel Cruz (119:56)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (119:57)

And they trust us. I remember the first time I did it. It's. It's. It's almost like you feel as though you're not worthy enough to try to help them. And then you get over that, and then you begin to connect with them.

Caller (120:08)

Them.

Ken Coleman (120:08)

And the highest form of work for me has been just meeting people where they are. Look at a guy who's weeping, whether it be a small business owner or a lady, a single mom, who's completely just underneath it. We had it on this last tour.

Rachel Cruz (120:24)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (120:25)

And I think that when you get to step into those moments, you. The. You think that you're helping them, and you get done with you and you go, oh, my gosh, that helped my soul. And here's where this ties in is because I do believe we were created to work, and I think we're uniquely and wonderfully made. And I think when you can do that and that for me, like, I enjoy the pressure of being on the mic and all these buttons and, you

Rachel Cruz (120:53)

know, in and out of stuff.

Ken Coleman (120:54)

Yeah. I love being fun, but I think at the end of the day, it's like what I've experienced at Ramsey that I will take with me, and with so much gratitude that cannot be expressed, is to do the work that I was created to do. And so the most rewarding is to talk to you folks. I will miss this terribly. I'll probably just find some guy in the grocery store and go, do you need to be coached for a moment?

Rachel Cruz (121:19)

Where are you with your. The proximity principle? Lay this out for you.

Ken Coleman (121:24)

Can I ask some piercing questions for a moment? That's the highest honor I've had. That's the work I've enjoyed the most. Most is just being a small, and I do mean small part of watching people transform their lives. I mean, the work we do here is about people and that's the most rewarding.

Rachel Cruz (121:41)

Yeah, I love that. I love it. Okay, so we said. Cause we boohooed the first time we.

Ken Coleman (121:46)

You started crying and just came up.

Rachel Cruz (121:48)

I know I came out of nowhere and I was like, I think it's been up since at 4 o'.

Ken Coleman (121:50)

Clock.

Rachel Cruz (121:53)

But I do want to end the segment not only, you know, honoring you, Ken, and obviously all that you've done, but also the exciting next chapter in your life. And what's crazy about it, all of us personalities have kind of joked of like, well, he's living it out. He's like, he's been talking. This is what he coaches people to do. And then when it happens, you know, and, and you get to make this next step into something that is, is different but, but something that is so exciting for you.

Ken Coleman (122:21)

Yeah. I, I, because of the sensitivity of the announcement, I can say that I'm stepping into an executive role. And I will be taking the experience and the skill set that I have developed over time before I got to RA honed it at Ramsey. And I'm going to be helping communicate. That's what I love to do, is to communicate. I love words. You know how much I love words.

Rachel Cruz (122:42)

Ken loves to talk.

Ken Coleman (122:43)

I love a good word. I do love to talk. I do love to talk. And, and I, and I'm going to be in an executive role and it's a major step up. This is what I've preached to people and this entire, this entire opportunity came to me, folks, through a personal relationship. It came through the real life proximity principle. That's what just being around high quality people and you have conversations. Two of my favorite things to do is to connect with new people and to get to know people. And I ask a lot of questions and I just didn't know that I was asking questions that created what is now an opportunity that, and I want to be very clear here that God has completely opened the door and then you're presented with, okay, I've got a great gig.

Rachel Cruz (123:34)

Yeah.

Ken Coleman (123:35)

But this is a great challenge. And I think it's probably core to who I am. I hope everybody that's ever heard me coach believes that this is authentic to who I am. When God opens a door, I think you'll Walk through it. So it's tough. Very sad, but also excited. The analogy I gave to our team is what I'll give to the audience. I feel like. You feel like when you read a good book, you're midway through the. The book, and you start telling all your friends and family about it. Oh, this book is so good, right?

Rachel Cruz (124:03)

Yes, yes.

Ken Coleman (124:04)

And you're telling about it, and what you're doing is you're talking about the past. You're talking about what you've experienced as a reader on those pages. And then when you get home that night, you can't wait to crack the next chapter. And I think that's where I'm at. And I would close with this. You know me, I got to close with a challenge to this audience. You come to us because Dave so long ago said, this is about hope, right? Hope. And here I'm getting choked. So my favorite scripture. Isaiah 40, 31.

Rachel Cruz (124:51)

You can do it.

Ken Coleman (124:52)

I got this.

Rachel Cruz (124:52)

You could do it. Take a breath.

Ken Coleman (124:54)

Those who wait on the Lord in some translation, those who hope in the Lord shall mount up on wings like eagles. This is the description here is soaring. There'll be seasons of your life where you're going to soar. And then Isaiah downshifts and he goes, those who run will not grow weary. And those who walk will not, not faint. And I think that's such a beautiful scripture for this audience. My final challenge is that no matter where you are on these baby steps, you are doing this because you long for freedom. The spirit of the Lord, the Bible says, brings liberty, Freedom. And so I would want you, no matter how hard it is, wherever you are, and however you're getting through these steps, don't miss what Dave based this entire company on in this show. Hope. Where does that hope come from? The Lord. He'll get you through. He's with you. He's beside you. He's in front of you. He's behind you. Trust him, please. Give it a shot. I'll let you down. He won't. So, as Dave has said for decades, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus. It's been my honor. Love you all.