Don't Chase Money, Chase Freedom

Summary

Summary of "Don't Chase Money, Chase Freedom" Episode from The Ramsey Show

Release Date: March 4, 2025
Host: Dave Ramsey and Co-host George Camel
Podcast Title: Don't Chase Money, Chase Freedom

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Introduction

In the "Don't Chase Money, Chase Freedom" episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey and his co-host George Camel delve into the profound relationship between wealth accumulation and personal freedom. The episode emphasizes the importance of strategic financial planning, disciplined investing, and finding purpose beyond monetary success. Throughout the show, they engage with listeners, addressing diverse financial challenges and providing actionable advice rooted in Ramsey's renowned financial principles.

Announcing the Investing Essentials Virtual Event

The episode kicks off with Dave Ramsey announcing a two-night virtual event titled Investing Essentials, scheduled for March 4th and 5th. This event aims to equip attendees with practical knowledge on investing and real estate, moving beyond theoretical concepts to actionable strategies.

Dave Ramsey [00:00]: "Tonight, March 4th, and tomorrow evening, Tuesday and Wednesday night, we're going to be doing this. It's a two-hour each night. It's standalone, so it's a four, four and a half hours worth of virtual event."

Co-host George Camel expresses enthusiasm about the depth of content that will be covered, highlighting the session's focus on detailed investment strategies.

George Camel [01:55]: "I love it. Watching Dave unpack a formula. I don't know. That's my new hobby, I guess."

Deep Dive into Investing and Real Estate

Ramsey and Camel discuss the complexities of investing, emphasizing that successful investment requires understanding rather than following fleeting market trends. They stress the importance of calculated decisions over speculative ones.

Dave Ramsey [02:18]: "How do you do an internal rate of return on a piece of real estate? It's too nerdy. But I do it all because I also am a super nerd."

Listener Calls: Navigating Financial Wins and Challenges

The heart of the episode lies in the engaging listener calls, where Ramsey and Camel offer tailored advice to real-world financial dilemmas.

1. Angela's Lottery Win: Investing Wisely After a Windfall

Caller: Angela from Rochester, New York, shares her experience of winning $3 million in the lottery, receiving approximately $997,000 after taxes. She expresses uncertainty about managing her sudden influx of wealth amidst fears of a potential market crash.

Dave Ramsey [04:14]: "Don't invest in the stock market or in real estate if you're wanting to do a short-term play. You want to think, I'm not going to touch this for five years once I put it in there."

Ramsey advises Angela to embrace long-term investing strategies and cautions against succumbing to fear-driven market exits, highlighting the concept of opportunity cost.

Dave Ramsey [07:30]: "You're looking for the heart of a teacher with anyone giving you advice... Your job is...to hire someone to teach you to do it for yourself."

2. Samuel Barron’s Million-Dollar Net Worth: Seeking Purpose Beyond Wealth

Caller: Samuel Barron, a 26-year-old, boasts a $5 million net worth at a young age thanks to disciplined investing and living below his means. However, Samuel grapples with finding meaning in life when financial goals seem achieved.

Dave Ramsey [15:02]: "I've got to know him on the way down when I lost everything... true joy comes through serving, not through getting giving."

Ramsey emphasizes that wealth alone doesn't fulfill one's purpose, urging Samuel to seek fulfillment through service and personal growth.

3. David's Mortgage Payoff Success: Lessons in Financial Discipline

Caller: David from Wildemart, California, celebrates paying off a $230,000 mortgage in six years and four months. His success is attributed to side jobs in real estate and steadfast adherence to the debt snowball method.

Dave Ramsey [21:43]: "You paid off your house? ... Excellent, man."

Ramsey highlights David’s disciplined approach and encourages listeners to replicate such strategies to achieve financial freedom.

4. Shelby’s Family Financial Struggles: Implementing Tough Love

Caller: Shelby from Idaho faces a dilemma as her sister, who saved her husband's life through a bone marrow transplant, now seeks financial assistance for failed real estate ventures.

Dave Ramsey [32:43]: "Real love is to sit down and say, sister, you need to stop doing this stupid butt stuff you're doing. That is an act of courage."

Ramsey advocates for tough love, advising Shelby to set boundaries and discourage enabling her sister’s unsustainable financial behaviors.

5. Michelle’s Remote Job Opportunity: Balancing Financial Gain and Family

Caller: Michelle from Cincinnati contemplates accepting a remote job that offers substantial financial benefits to alleviate her student loan debt. However, she feels guilty about moving away from her family.

Dave Ramsey [53:44]: "It's about freedom, not money; plan to get out of debt."

Ramsey reassures her that seeking financial freedom is not greed but a legitimate pursuit for a stable life, encouraging her to proceed with her plans.

6. Asher’s Impulsive Spending: Gaining Control Over Finances

Caller: Asher from Atlanta battles impulsive spending habits despite a modest income of $200 weekly. Living with his parents, he struggles with online gaming and excessive spending on food.

Dave Ramsey [60:07]: "You got to stop using this stuff."

Ramsey recommends strategic budgeting and disciplined spending, suggesting resources like Ramsey’s book on overcoming financial struggles.

7. Ashley’s Student Loan Debt: Selling Rental Property to Alleviate Debt

Caller: Ashley from Washington D.C., a lawyer, faces $338,000 in student loan debt and considers selling her rental property to manage her obligations.

Dave Ramsey [77:05]: "Sales your rental property if necessary; budget and cut expenses; increase income."

Ramsey advises Ashley to evaluate her financial capabilities and consider selling the property to prevent debt escalation, emphasizing the importance of budgeting and income augmentation.

Emphasizing Life Insurance and Financial Planning

Throughout the episode, Ramsey underscores the critical role of life insurance in financial planning, advocating for policies that secure one's family’s future.

Dave Ramsey [09:19]: "Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all... It’s about taking care of your family."

Co-host George Camel shares a personal anecdote to reinforce the necessity of life insurance, making the topic relatable and urgent.

Insights and Conclusions

The episode masterfully intertwines personal success stories with practical financial advice, reinforcing Ramsey’s foundational principles:

1. Invest Wisely and Patience: Embrace long-term investment strategies over short-term speculative plays to maximize returns and ensure financial stability.
2. Find Purpose Beyond Wealth: True fulfillment arises from service, personal growth, and meaningful relationships rather than mere financial accumulation.
3. Discipline and Strategy in Debt Management: Implementing methods like the debt snowball and maintaining a strict budget are pivotal in achieving financial freedom.
4. Tough Love in Financial Advising: Setting boundaries and discouraging enabling behaviors are essential in guiding loved ones towards sustainable financial health.
5. Importance of Life Insurance: Ensuring adequate life insurance is a crucial component of comprehensive financial planning to safeguard family futures.

Ramsey’s blend of empathy, strict financial discipline, and strategic planning offers listeners a comprehensive roadmap to not just chase money but to attain true freedom through informed financial decisions.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Dave Ramsey [04:14]: "Don't invest in the stock market or in real estate if you're wanting to do a short-term play. You want to think, I'm not going to touch this for five years once I put it in there."

• Dave Ramsey [07:30]: "You're looking for the heart of a teacher with anyone giving you advice... Your job is...to hire someone to teach you to do it for yourself."

• Dave Ramsey [15:02]: "I've got to know him on the way down when I lost everything... true joy comes through serving, not through getting giving."

• Dave Ramsey [21:43]: "You paid off your house? ... Excellent, man."

• Dave Ramsey [32:43]: "Real love is to sit down and say, sister, you need to stop doing this stupid butt stuff you're doing. That is an act of courage."

• Dave Ramsey [53:44]: "It's about freedom, not money; plan to get out of debt."

• Dave Ramsey [60:07]: "You got to stop using this stuff."

• Dave Ramsey [77:05]: "Sales your rental property if necessary; budget and cut expenses; increase income."

• Dave Ramsey [09:19]: "Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all... It’s about taking care of your family."

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This episode serves as a testament to the multifaceted approach needed to achieve financial freedom, blending strategic investing, disciplined debt management, and a pursuit of purpose beyond wealth. Ramsey and Camel’s guidance empowers listeners to navigate their financial journeys with confidence and clarity.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't miss our virtual event happening tonight. I'm sharing my personal playbook for investing and real estate. Get your [e-mail] events. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, George Camel Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host. Today you jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Yeah. Jump in, triple 882-55-5225. We'd love to talk to you tonight. For those of you listening live through one methodology or another, we're on about 83 different platforms of different kinds with this show. But if you're able to listen on Tuesday for whatever Tuesday evening, we will be doing the Investing Essentials workshop tonight. George and I just came out of a rehearsal. This is about a two hour event this evening and tomorrow evening, Tuesday and Wednesday night. If you buy a VIP ticket, you have 30 days worth of replay. You can watch it over and over and over for 30 days. So no rush, no problem, whatever. But you do need to get your ticket if you want to watch this evening live. He and I will be doing investing tonight. Tomorrow night we'll be doing investing in real estate. And George is loving this. Bringing out your I know you look very GQ on the surface, but underneath we know you're a true nerd.

[George Camel]

I love it. Watching Dave unpack a formula. I don't know. That's my new hobby, I guess. But it really is. It's stuff we've never talked about on this show. Mostly because you thought it was too dry and boring.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's too nerdy.

[George Camel]

But then people went, no, no, no, Dave, we actually want to know how do you select a mutual fund out of all the investment options? We're going to cover that. How do you calculate the cash on cash return to know if the investment property is worth it?

[Dave Ramsey]

How do you do an internal rate of return on a piece of real estate? It's too nerdy. But I do it all because I also am a super nerd. So couple super nerds tagging up to Investing Essentials virtual event. My pastor used to say a man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an opinion. I own about $600 million worth of real estate. I'm 64 years old. I've got a lot of money in other investments as well. This is not something I wish I knew something about. I can't fix your car, but I can tell you how to do this because I have done this a lot.

[George Camel]

No theories here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not theory. This is not a think tank. This is not your broke financial professor. Finance professor with an opinion. So tonight, March 4th and 5th, we're going to be doing this. It's a two hour each night. It's standalone, so it's a four, four and a half hours worth of virtual event. Go to ramseysolutions.com get your tickets. We'll come into the top of the hour here bragging about that because it is tonight. Angela is with us in Rochester, New York. Hi, Angela. What's up?

[Angela]

Well, hi. I recently won a nice chunk of money in the lottery.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. How much did you win?

[Angela]

I won 3 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Angela]

Yeah, unfortunately, I didn't get anywhere near that. I got 997,000 after taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, after taxes and lump sum, the 3 million is the total payout if you take it over 83 bazillion years and not counting taxes. Yeah. So you took it all. Lump sum. She got a million bucks. Way to go. Yeah, that's fine. I'm happy for you.

[Angela]

Thank you. I was, too. I just don't know what to do now. I've been meeting with a lot of different advisors, but then I'm also reading about a possible market crash and I don't know what to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I hope there's a market crash right before you put this money in.

[Angela]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it's going to go straight up after that. So I don't think there's going to be a market crash. In other words, let me tell you how much of my money I pulled out of the market in fear of a market crash. Precisely zero.

[Angela]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Matter of fact, I'm steadily investing. Real estate and stock market both. There's a boom, a coming, baby. Ride the wave. All right, now here's the thing. When you're meeting with those investors, how intimidated are you?

[Angela]

I'm not intimidated. Well, I can't say that I don't really understand it all.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go.

[Angela]

That's where I'm very lost at what to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I've got a bunch. I've got a bunch of Gen Z's in their 20s that work here. We've got a whole bunch of digital products at Ramsey. I know nothing about it. They work for me, but they're smarter than me and I have no idea what they're talking about. You know, I'm talking about. So I go into a room full of them the other day, and I'm like, hey, they're talking and they're using letters and all this stuff, like they're in the military. I have no idea what they're talking about. About. I'm like, hey, guys, just humor the old guy who writes your check. Tell me what the flip is going on in this room.

[George Camel]

Explain, like, I'm five.

[Dave Ramsey]

Explain it till I understand it. Because you work here and work for me. My name's on the building. I'm not being mean about this. I'm just really curious what it is we do in this room. So they spent about 30 minutes teaching me with a good spirit. And I had a good spirit of receptively listening and learning because I really did want to know what they were doing. I'm always perpetually curious around here. And that's what you're going to do. These people work for you, these investing advisors, meaning you can fire them at a drop of a hat if they're not good at explaining or if they make you feel insecure with their snotty approach. So you're looking for the heart of a teacher with anyone giving you advice, because your job is not to hire someone else to do this for you. Your job is to hire someone to teach you to do it for yourself.

[Angela]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

That way you won't lose the money.

[Angela]

That's my fear.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not gonna lose it. You're gonna go slow and you're not gonna put it in anything you don't understand.

[Angela]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And you remember, everything that's written on the Internet's true. Abraham Lincoln said that.

[Angela]

Yeah. That's what my friends say. If it's not on Facebook, it's not true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It doesn't happen. Right. So stay off the Internet for financial advice. All right? Sit down and talk to old seasoned people who will teach you. And when you come away from the meeting, you've. You feel two things. Smarter and peaceful. If you don't have that sense in your spirit, if you don't feel more confident, smarter and peaceful, you got the wrong people in your corner. That's what you're looking for. If you do that, you won't lose the money, right, George?

[Angela]

I think it's better to invest it or just keep, like divide 250,000 a pound banks until I feel better. So it's probably.

[Dave Ramsey]

I put $3 million into the stock market last week. Okay, 25% is what. Stock market went up last year. What's 25% of 3 million?

[Angela]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

What do you make, Angela? What do you make from your job?

[Dave Ramsey]

10% is 300,000, by the way.

[Angela]

I'm actually retired. I bring 62,000 in. I have a couple of defined benefit pension plans.

[George Camel]

Good.

[Angela]

Yeah. And my husband makes about 110 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so if you put a million dollars in and it makes 20%, that's 200,000. If instead you put it into a savings account because you're scared and you don't learn and you make 1%, you lost $200,000.

[Angela]

That's a much better way of looking at it.

[George Camel]

That's opportunity cost.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's called opportunity cost. You missed an opportunity by not learning. So learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. Get comfortable. And don't invest in the stock market or in real estate if you're wanting to do a short term play. You want to think, I'm not going to touch this for five years once I put it in there. Okay, if you do that and then you just turn off the news, you'll be okay. But learn, learn, learn, learn, learn. You and your husband sit down with these advisors and if you want some more to have the heart of a teacher, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pros. SmartVestor Pro. Find the ones in your area. Interview 2 or 3. Talk to tax people, insurance people, insurance people, until they have the heart of a teacher. If they're snotting you, they drop their glasses down on the end of their nose and they have all the answers. And you're just the stupid little people who got lucky. You have a million dollars, they don't. So tell them to shut up. They're fired. This is the Ramsey Show. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something.

[George Camel]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[George Camel]

For decades, Dave. I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too.

[George Camel]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're going to have a crisis here. You know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly. These are the two options. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. This is the Ramsey Show. George Campbell Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host George. When you were a wee toddler there was a fabulous comedian out named Steve Martin.

[George Camel]

Oh I love Steve.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he had a whole bit that said you need to get a million dollars and not pay taxes. He said how do you want to be a millionaire and not pay taxes? He said the first thing you do is you get a million dollars, then you don't pay taxes. Yeah, that was a funny, it was a funny bit. But you know when I get a call from someone like our last caller before the break, Angela, and she got a million dollars from the lottery. I always think where does money come from? Where does wealth come from? And there's a lot of places you can get money. You can win the lottery. You can have a rich uncle that dies and leave you a million dollars. You can be scuba diving in the Caribbean and find gold bars from a Spanish galleon that wrecked it.

[George Camel]

Sounds personal.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean that could happen. I mean people, you know, there's a lot you could treasure hunt. You could do all kinds of things.

[George Camel]

Get a settlement check, sell a business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you could, you could be in a car wreck. I mean you could get a million dollars from a lot of places and become wealthy. What we are in the business of however here is giving you a path that has a super high probability of working, not a super low probability of working. Now if you get a million dollars from a low probability, like not a chance, it's happening again, like winning the lottery. We're gonna celebrate with you. Cause we were nice to Angela and we wanna celebrate with her. But I don't want you folk out there to misunderstand that the lottery is a high probability of building wealth. As a matter of fact, statistically it is a tax on poor people. Most people that play the lottery live in lower income zip codes in the state of Tennessee. We have this wonderful program where the lottery money is used to send people to college. The people that go to college in Tennessee, using the lottery Money are typically middle class and upper class kids going to money, going to college on lottery money that was paid by poor people playing the lottery in lower income zip codes who never use those scholarships. So it's a completely bogus, horrible system. Now, Angela benefited from it and I'm not mad at her. We'll help her and celebrate with her that she became a millionaire with this. But I want you folks to know, here's the actual. This is hilarious to me, but it's mathematically factual. Okay? If you walk one mile to the market to buy the lottery ticket, you are 12 times more likely to be struck by lightning twice during the one mile walk. That's statistically wow. Than you are to buy the winning lottery ticket. That's how bad this program sucks.

[George Camel]

And people go, I'll take my chances, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'll get struck by lightning twice. I mean, number of people that. I mean, really. I mean, it's like something off of Instagram. But no. Okay, I want a high probability. I want something that works most of the time for average intelligence people. Cause that's what I am. I don't want to have to be a genius. I don't want to have to be lucky beyond statistical probability. I want something that works. And that's what we teach here. But if you were to come into wealth by one of these other weird means, George, and all the other personalities, we will celebrate with you. We love you. If you have a rich uncle, you're the one that did. I always wonder who it was. It was you. Because it wasn't me and it wasn't George.

[George Camel]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

If I had one, he didn't leave me any money. I don't know where he is. I might be the rich uncle, but I'm not leaving the nephews anything. They're all going to my kids.

[George Camel]

No one's ever left you in their will?

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Yeah, my grandmother did. I got $5,000.

[George Camel]

Hey, it's a tiny lottery.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. We were just married. And I have no idea where that money went. Gone. Just poof. It just disappeared. I blame Sharon like mist in the wind, but that's the deal, Poke. So anyway, I just want you to know, just because we celebrate with someone who had a good event does not mean that's an endorsement of their strategy of that methodology. Okay. 12 times more likely to be struck by lightning twice in a one mile walk than you are statistically to buy a winning lottery ticket. That's pretty low odds. Just saying. All right. Samuel's with us in Los Angeles, California. Hi, Samuel. How are you?

[Angela]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good morning, guys. Thank you for having me on the show. Our pleasure. How can we help you? Yeah.

[Angela]

So my name is Samuel Barron. I'm 26 years old. I've been following your principles since I was a teenager, about 18, 19.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your advice on living debt free and.

[Angela]

Investing has helped me build a five million dollar net worth at 26.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go. Wow.

[Angela]

Thank you. I have a big question and I'm really confused on what's next. So I made my first million at 22. I invested all my profits. I made. I live in. I still live in my mom's living.

[Dave Ramsey]

Room and I eat McDonald's and Chipotle.

[Angela]

Every single day, which isn't the best. But my question is, what's the meaning of life when the money game feels solved? Is it about starting a family or buying the dream home that I've been looking at for the past eight years? Or is it something deeper?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. How old you say you are? 25.

[Angela]

26.

[Dave Ramsey]

26. Cool. I appreciate you calling, dude. I'll take a stab at it. Number one, $5 million. The money game is not solved. Okay? You can screw this up in about 20 minutes. Have nothing. I had 4 million worth of real estate when I was 26, and I went completely bankrupt by the time I was 30. So it can't. You can screw this up. It's not over. But you have done a wonderful job. Congratulations. So, I mean, if you got 500 million, we'll talk about slowing down, but 5 million? No, you're not there yet, so. But, but what you're figuring out is, is that just stacking cash doesn't have meaning. And I'll go along with that for sure. Well done. And you've done a wonderful job of stacking cash. You're amazing. Congratulations, sir. But what we figured out a long time ago, I met God on the way up. I got to know him on the way down when I lost everything. Samuel. And what I've learned as a person of faith is that true joy comes through serving, not through getting giving, not getting adding value, not taking value. And so I think you'll have a level of happiness when you just go get you an apartment and a better diet. Yeah, I'm working on it. Yeah. No, I mean really. I mean, like by the end of the week, I want you in an apartment. You need to get out of your mother's living room. You're 26 years old. You got $5 million. What the flip are you doing at home? Go be a man.

[Angela]

Here's the thing is that I bought a quadplex in LA last year, but it's fully owner occupied, so I couldn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was fine, go get an apartment. I didn't say you had to move into that.

[Angela]

Well, yeah, I mean, you're right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I am right.

[Angela]

The whole reason why I've been working is I just want this house that I've been looking at for years and I.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what I'm. Yeah, but when you get that, it's going to have the same exact feeling. It's just a stupid house. Every time you get a nice thing, there's a better one. And some goober on the Internet will show it to you, the algorithm, when.

[George Camel]

Your social media feed will go, man, you should own 20 properties by the time you're 26. And so the goalpost is always going to keep moving until you decide, I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Want you to save up for that house too. I don't mind that. But dude, I don't know what the flip you're doing to make money, but you're doing a great job of handling the money. But you're. But what you're telling me is, is that all of your effort and energy and psychology and spirituality has been aimed at one target, and that's money. And that's pretty. That's a pretty stupid target. It's. It's a good target, but it's not the all encompassing target. So go have a life too. I mean, I want you to go enjoy some meals with a beautiful woman called a date and go get you a. An apartment and like a life. Have you got a car? Yeah, I have. What is a different.

[Angela]

Yeah, so me and my girlfriend have been together since middle school and we've done all the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why is she hanging out with you when you still live in your mother's living room? I mean, she tells me the same.

[Angela]

Thing that's right here. It's so.

[Dave Ramsey]

I hear it all the time. I love you, man. You're awesome. You are a great guy. You're amazing. Thank you so much for calling. Hey, man, really go invest some of this in your. In having a quality life, not just in investments.

[George Camel]

You got a flat tire right now. You got the money part down. Let's focus on spiritual growth, physical health, social relationships, family. That's what's going to give you a lot more purpose on top of doing what Dave said and giving and serving.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was just a little bit younger than you when I landed in a good church, changed my life, taught me how to serve. And there's more joy in serving, in giving than there is in taking and adding and stacking cash. Go stack you some cash. But go have a life too. My man. It's time. Today's the day. Move out now. Like with this week. Friday, Friday, that's your deadline. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Hey, what's up, guys?

[Angela]

It's Jade Warshaw.

[George Camel]

And look, if there's anybody who knows student loan debt is a problem, it's me. My husband and I had $280,000 of it, but we were able to dig ourselves out. And you can too. If your student loan payment and interest rate are both burying you, refinancing could be the solution.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, I recommend contacting my friends at.

[George Camel]

Laurel Road today through their online application. You can get an initial rate quote.

[Dave Ramsey]

In less than five minutes. And if you have a more complex.

[George Camel]

Situation, you can schedule 30 minutes to talk to an actual human being.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank goodness Laurel Road makes it simple.

[George Camel]

There are no fees involved and you could save thousands over the life of your loan. Remember, you should only refinance if it.

[Angela]

Makes sense in your situation.

[George Camel]

So if you're looking for a low rate or a shorter term so that you can pay off these student loans fast, talk to my friends at Laurel Road about their competitive interest rates and.

[Dave Ramsey]

How you could actually get a lower.

[George Camel]

Rate by signing up for autopay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, nobody's coming to save you from student loan debt.

[George Camel]

If you want them gone, you can't mess around. Go to LaurelRoad.com Ramsey to find out more about student loan refinancing. Again, that's LaurelRoad.com Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval.

[Dave Ramsey]

George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Thank you for joining us, America. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. David is with us. Hi David, how are you?

[David]

I'm doing real well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, man. Where do you live?

[David]

I live in Wildemart, south of Los Angeles.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Welcome to Nashville.

[David]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And all the way on the other side of the United States to do a debt free scream, baby.

[David]

Of course.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. How much did you pay off?

[David]

230,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. How long did this take you?

[David]

Six years and four months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Good for you. Good for you. And what was your range of income during that time?

[David]

Well, I. My income was about 200,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. And what do you do for a living?

[David]

I'm a salesman for a packaging company.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. Excellent, man. What kind of debt was this? 230,000.

[David]

Well, it was my mortgage. And so I used my side job, which is real estate, to pay that off.

[Dave Ramsey]

You paid off your house?

[David]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

In California?

[David]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

No less. Well done, sir.

[David]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Boom, boom, boom. I'm looking at weird people. A paid for house just south of Los Angeles. What's this house worth?

[David]

About 600,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, man. How much have you got in your retirement nest egg?

[David]

A little over a million.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so worth almost $2 million. How old are you?

[David]

64.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it, man. Congratulations. Thank you. How's that feel?

[David]

It feels great. It feels great. It's actually, since I paid it off in December, not to have a mortgage since January is just. It's awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just like you feel like no weight on your shoulder.

[David]

That's right. Nothing's being taken out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I love it. Very good. So what inspired you to try to do this six years ago at, what, 58 years old? Said, I'm gonna pay off my house fast.

[David]

Well, what I did was I had like a PMI on my original mortgage, and so I. They wouldn't take it off, so I had to find another mortgage company to take the PMI off, and it was actually owed to 70. So what I did was I had some money saved up from real estate, and when I refinanced, I actually wired the money to the new lender, so that. That dropped it from 270 to 230. And they were going, well, why don't you just take money out? So that was my situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How'd you run into all this Ramsey stuff?

[David]

Years ago in church.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[David]

A program.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[David]

And so the snowball has always been.

[Dave Ramsey]

In my mind and just decided, I'm gonna knock this house out.

[David]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's so cool.

[George Camel]

Now, you mentioned the side hustle of doing real estate that helped to pay it off.

[David]

Yes.

[George Camel]

What were you doing?

[David]

Well, I do a couple deals a year specializing in probate, and I just really liked it. It was like a hobby. And that's really what helped me with the big, you know, chunks of change to pay it off.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you were finding deals out of estates that were good bargains and flipping them?

[David]

No, not flipping. Just being the listing agent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. You're selling them. Helping the people solve the problem.

[David]

Yeah. Calling the. Calling family and. And sharing, you know, what my. What I can do for them. And. And that's how I did it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Wow, that's neat. So having a sales commission.

[David]

Yeah. Good commissions to be able to do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And.

[David]

And so that's that helped me a lot.

[George Camel]

Plus a great income.

[David]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very, very cool. So who was your biggest cheerleader while you're doing all this?

[David]

Pretty much just. It was me. I'm my own. Well, one of the reasons I'm here is I'm doing this for my kids, so I can be an example.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, very cool. How old are your kiddos?

[David]

Let's see. 35, 33. I got one in the Navy. He's 26. And then my youngest is 21.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, very good, very good. Cool. Good for you. Well, it is a good example. They can look over there and go, look, he saved money. He paid off his house. He got a couple million dollars. He's 64 years old. He's not going to be calling us for food.

[George Camel]

Sigh of relief from the kids. We don't take care of dad in his old age. He's going to be just fine with his big old nest egg and paid for house.

[David]

That's great. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done, sir. I'm very proud of you.

[David]

Thank you, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. Very well done. I appreciate you making the trip over here.

[David]

Of course.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what. What made you decide? I'm going all the way to Nashville to do this. Why? Did that mean something?

[David]

Well, you know, the last six years, I. I knew that this is what I can do. I wanted to come here. I do it for my kids, but also, you know, the goal of being debt free. And there's no other place to come except here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. We're the place that lets you celebrate it.

[David]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

For sure. Yeah. Well, good man. Very cool. We're honored that. That you would. That we would be what you'd look. This stage is what you'd look forward to. That's pretty, pretty neat.

[George Camel]

What's next for you? What are you dealing with? The freed up mortgage payment.

[David]

You know what? I'm gonna actually fix my house. I. I didn't do anything to it. It needs flooring. It needs a bunch of stuff. So I sacrificed that for.

[Dave Ramsey]

For getting this thing put off the remodel.

[David]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay.

[George Camel]

Okay. Cash flow pretty easily now.

[David]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

So when someone's listening and they're in their 50s, and they say I've still got a quarter million dollars owed on a house, what do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is?

[David]

Well, I really think that if you can get a job, a side job that can really help you out and help you make those snowball payments, slowly but surely it works. The whole thing reminds me of that. That book where the red fern grows. And that young man, it took him two years to save $40 and he bought two hounds. And that's how you know it goes. Quick, but it's just little steps. And I would say the side job is what really saved me.

[George Camel]

Yeah, you weren't scared of work.

[Dave Ramsey]

It propelled you, that's for sure. Yes. Excellent job, David. Good stuff. All right, and what was the town called again?

[David]

Wildemar.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wildemara. Wildemar, California. Yes, south of Los Angeles. I'm learning my geography right now. $230,000 paid off in six years and four months. That's house and everything. House is worth about 600. Got about a million in the old retirement. So getting bumping up towards $2 million net worth at 64 years old. Congratulations, David, you did it. We're proud of you, hero. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[George Camel]

Debt free. Got right to the chase.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's six years worth of waiting. Yeah, I love it.

[George Camel]

Get to use your outdoor voice indoors. That's the joy of the debt free scream.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cathartic it is. But you know what, so few people do it. I mean, he's one of the rare people out there called millionaires. Baby steps millionaires, they follow the baby steps. They got out of debt, paid off their house, built their retirement, built their kids college in some cases not his. But you know, you do all those things and then you look over there and there's a stinking pile of money and you're okay. Everything's going to be okay. And mainly because of the habits you built during that time, the character you built during that time, you get transformed in the process.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that patience and delayed gratification. I mean, you heard him saying, I've lived on less than I made. I put off things and it's worth it. I mean, six years feels like a long time. It's going to happen, it's going to fly by. You're going to be 64 at one point or another. So do you want to have a paid for house or do you want to have lifestyle creep take over and you got a pile of debt going. I hope I can retire one day. That's normal in America.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, last week we took calls from 71 year old who had no money and didn't know how she was going to eat. A guy who was in his mid-70s, had no money, didn't know how he was going to eat. Counting on social insecurity. You work your whole life and I'm going to count on the government, which is well known for its ability to handle money to take care of me. That's a dumb plan. But not David. David doesn't have a house payment. He's sitting on a million bucks in retirement, sitting on plenty of income and still, you know, enjoying his work and even enjoying the side hustle, which is pretty lucrative, obviously. So very cool. Very well done. That's how you do it, folks. I mean, it doesn't happen accidentally, this winning thing. No.

[George Camel]

In our Millionaire study, we found what average millionaire happens at 49 years old and they pay off their house in 10.2 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the average.

[George Camel]

And so he probably fell right in there. He's a little faster on the mortgage payoff, but it's, it's really not rocket science and it's really not that impressive when you look at what was going on there. They just consistently put money away, consistently made extra mortgage payments. There was no rocket science.

[Dave Ramsey]

It is impressive because no one else do it, does it, but it's not superhuman. Yeah, it's not. It's not out of reach. You can just decide, I'm gonna do that. And that's all he did. He was just a very decisive person. He said, I'm very low key. I'm just gonna do it. Yeah, unassuming. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna go win. I'm gonna go win the Super Bowl. And then I can scream I'm debt free on the Ramsey Solutions debt free stage.

[George Camel]

Worth it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it.

[George Camel]

And we got a gift for him to every dollar subscriptions that he can use or give to someone else to kickstart their journey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got those kids in their 30s. We hand up. Hand that stuff off right there. Keep it going, keep it going. He said he wanted to be an example for him. That's how this works. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one.

[Angela]

Way and that way isn't down.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if higher costs aren't enough, the.

[Angela]

Wait times to see your doctor are longer.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy.

[Angela]

So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically.

[Dave Ramsey]

Based alternative to health insurance.

[Angela]

Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981.

[Angela]

And CHM has also helped them stay.

[Dave Ramsey]

True to their values and avoid miles of red tape.

[Angela]

And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs.

[Dave Ramsey]

They'll also help meet spiritual needs.

[Angela]

Members become part of a family who.

[Dave Ramsey]

Will pray with them and for for.

[Angela]

Them when they experience a medical event.

[Dave Ramsey]

So listen y'all, there's no better way.

[Angela]

To take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

So learn more today and [e-mail] budget.

[Angela]

That's chministries.org budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our question of the day is brought to you by why refi are defaulted private student loan payments dragging you down? Why refi could help you save thousands of dollars? Visit yrefi.com Ramsey to see how they can help. That's the letter yrefy.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[George Camel]

Today's question comes from Shelby in Idaho. My husband and I have been married for 15 years and have two children. We're on baby steps, 4, 5, and 6. Last year he was diagnosed with leukemia and underwent chemo and a bone marrow transplant. My husband's estranged sister was a perfect match, which probably saved his life. Now she has gotten herself deep in debt trying to flip houses and rent out Airbnbs and has started asking us for money. We already gave her several thousand dollars last month. We have heard from other relatives that she has started asking them for large amounts as well. My husband feels obligated to give her money because she saved his life. And we know she'll be asking us again soon. How should we respond? Who?

[Dave Ramsey]

There was no if I give you bone marrow, you give me money. Contract here. Nor was there any implied thing like that. What you do want to do is help someone you love anytime you can help someone you love. But not but no, he's not. He's not obligated to give her money to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic because she's going down. And if you give her $10,000, you're it doesn't help. She has bigger problems than $10,000. If you give her $1,000, it doesn't help. You're rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. So what you've got to do is say, okay, she helped me, now I'm going to help her. Now let's define what help is. What does sister really need? Well, she needs to stop doing this stupid butt stuff she's doing. That's killing her. Not you throw money into her LSD financial trip here. This is nuts. And so real help, real love is to sit down and say, sister, you gave me the gift of life and I'm going to give you a gift in return. The financial plan that you are on is going to bankrupt you, and I don't want to see you hurt. You need to stop this. You need to confront her stupidity. That is an act of courage. That is an act of love. That is helping. Giving money. Giving a drunk a drink, giving a money to a cocaine addict so they can buy their cocaine is not love. And this is financial cocaine. This woman's on. I'm deeply leveraged. I'm losing money on Airbnb. Oh, shoot me. You bought all. You got all your dadgum real estate advice off a TikTok. Oh, my God. Of course it's failing.

[Angela]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

You can't compare the health crisis that he went through and go, hey, the quid pro quo is I support financial misbehavior for the rest of my life. That's not going to work. So it's going to be a tough conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you can't save her.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And it might hurt the relationship.

[Dave Ramsey]

Unless you got a million dollars, you want to bail her out completely of all these mortgages, you can't save her because the track she's on is a bankruptcy track.

[George Camel]

This vending machine is going to keep eating your money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The only thing you can do, step in front of the train and say, I love you. Stop the train, because I love you. I'm going to tell you the truth. No one's telling you the truth. The emperor has no clothes. What you are doing is straight up stupid. You're going to bankrupt. And that most people won't tell somebody that they supposedly love the truth. They just. They'll do anything to keep from telling because it sounds like conflict. But that's real love. That's real help. Real love is when my children were little, I made them brush their teeth so they have some later even if they don't want to. Real love is you did some uncomfortable things if you were a Ramsay child growing up. Because we were not trying to raise great kids. We were trying to raise kids who became great adults. And so real love involved some things that were uncomfortable for their short term and comfortable for their long term. Like, get your freaking homework done. In today's world, it means when you're at Papa Dave's, we're not big on screens, so grandpa and grandma, we want to, like, talk to you and look at your freaking little eyes. Put that crap down. You know? Oh, my God. And so, I mean, yeah, that. That's real love. Does a four year old love that? No, they hate it. I don't want to go to Papa Dave's. He Won't let me play games for 73 hours on my iPad. Well, then keep your little butt home. Because when you come to my house, Papa Dave's rules. At Papa Dave's house. Sorry. That's the way that works. You've now entered my domain, little person. That's how it works. So we love you so much, we're going to do all kinds of wonderful things for your good, including hurt your little feelings. And that's what you need to do for your sister, buddy. Not give her money and support her stupidity in the name of. You helped me with my bone marrow. I'm. It's wonderful that you all have this kind of relationship, that she was willing to do that. Because that's a painful operation and it's a hard process. But it doesn't mean you support her destroying herself. You do quite the opposite if you really love her. That's tough love. No, darling, it's real love. It's not tough love. Tough love. I mean that. What's. What's the opposite of tough love? Enabling entitlement. No, no.

[George Camel]

You've got a choice. You got to choose. Healthy conflict.

[Dave Ramsey]

More money for the failed program. We're not putting fuel in the Titanic. We need that. We need to pull up alongside the dock and get some fuel because we're going to go sink this thing.

[George Camel]

It's getting the dinghy's out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not with my. Not with Papa Dave's money. Not doing it. Nope, nope, nope. And not with your money. Stop it. It's not real love, guys. You just love somebody. You have to be kind and courageous and very clear that they have to stop doing the thing that is hurting them. And you will support them in that process, but you will not support them in the process of self destruction. Because I love you. Because you did something sacrificial for me. That's the very reason I will not participate in this delusional bull crap. Is that. I mean, people don't talk like that anymore, but we need them to. That's real freaking love. Dave is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hi, Dave. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Angela]

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Angela]

So. So my wife and I are living in a house. We're written from her parents and we're thinking of buying the place from them. But my wife is very nervous about the idea of getting into any sort of debt and I'm not sure that we've actually saved up enough to do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you debt free?

[Angela]

We are. We have always been Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much money do you have saved?

[Angela]

Well, we have our six month emergency fund and then on top of that we have about 12 grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how expensive is this property?

[Angela]

We're actually in the process of trying to determine that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, come on, give me a range.

[Angela]

Honestly, it could be anything from 90 to 145.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Angela]

We don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not super expensive. And 12 grand will get you into it.

[Angela]

No, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your, what's your household income?

[Angela]

I have been bringing home consistently about 64 a year and I'm hoping to have that up above 80 this year.

[Dave Ramsey]

She does not work outside the home.

[Angela]

No, we have two kids under three.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Okay. She works, but just not outside the home. Okay.

[Angela]

She does a lot of work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I can imagine. Oh my gosh, the numbers all work. You could buy the house with $12,000 down on a 15 year fix. No problemo. Okay.

[Angela]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, no reason not to do it. The only question I've got for you is if you were living in a one bedroom apartment and this house came on the market, would you be interested in it? Or are you just ending up here because it happens to be all in the family?

[Angela]

No, I would be. I would be interested in it. The only thing about it is that we're outgrowing the house. And so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, if you're in a one bedroom apartment or two bedroom apartment, you got two little kids or three bedroom, whatever. If you're renting somewhere you weren't emotionally attached to and had no relatives tied to it, would you come by this house? If the answer is yes, then buy it. You're financially ready. What do you think, George? Yeah.

[George Camel]

And if you want to save up a little more and do this in six months, that's fine too. You just got to weigh it out and go. We got to get a little less house. But the mortgage payment is probably going to be about a thousand bucks. So it's reasonable for your income.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're in the numbers work on this. You can do this on a 15 year fixed and you're fine. But just don't buy something because it's handy and the in laws said do it. That's never a good reason. Buy it because of something you would have bought anyway. And if that's the case, then game on, baby. You're ready. You've done a good job, man. That's cool. This is the Ramsey show. You spent years trying to get everything just right for your family.

[Angela]

Now you need an easy way to make sure your important financial documents are as Organized as the rest of your house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, good news, Knockbox, that's n. Okay box as in next of kin box.

[Angela]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Be sure that you leave happy memories, not a mess when you pass away. Knockbox is a simple way to organize.

[Angela]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Angela]

Other personal history in one manageable place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your family will feel your love in.

[Angela]

Every detail you take care of. So start taking care of [e-mail] Ramsey a well organized legacy is a gift to your family. That's nokbox.com Ramsey live from the headquarters.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing, amazing relationships. George Camel Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Open phones here at Triple 882-55-5225. He's also the co host of Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruz, one of our top shows here on the Ramsey Networks. If you've not checked that out on YouTube or podcast, you should. They are way more fun than they should be allowed. And we even pay them for having that much fun. I can't believe I get paid you to goof off. Get on there and make, make yourselves really popular. And I pay you for the opportunity.

[George Camel]

You greenlit the show, so I'm telling.

[Dave Ramsey]

You, I actually did attend it finally. Yeah, it was great and had a lot of fun with you.

[George Camel]

You're one of our top performing episodes, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

No way.

[George Camel]

Yeah, No, I don't think you beat Sharon Ramsey's episode.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nobody beat sh.

[George Camel]

You can't touch that.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you do, you don't tell her. So I'm just saying just let her. She. She gets to win all the time. That's the rule at our house. All right. Carly is in Washington D.C. hey, Carly, what's up?

[Angela]

Hi. So my question is my mom just paid off my brother's credit card debt, which is about $70,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What?

[Angela]

Yeah, I know, I know, I know. And you have thoughts on that? I do too. I begged her not to do it, but that's what happened. She's offering to give me the same amount of money. To be fair, I guess, or equal. Like we're. It's just the two siblings and I'm conflicted about whether to take the money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are there strings attached? Is it a loan?

[Angela]

No, no, no, no. It just. She just feels like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Has she got a lot of money?

[Angela]

She does. She can afford to do it. I think. I think he Feels guilty for giving him the money because I think she knows she shouldn't have.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no. I think she just. I mean, my grandmother, my wife are the same way that whatever one of them gets, the other one gets. I mean, it was no guilt. It's just all. I accuse her of being a socialist, but. But, you know, I don't think everything ought to be fair. I think fair is where the cotton candy and the tilt of world is. But, But. But my. My. My grandmother and my wife are exactly the same way. They would do it. They would definitely have done this. And no guilt at all. It's just like. Well, that's what you're do it for one, you do it for the other. It's real simple in their minds.

[Angela]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And it was her idea. She came to you and said, hey, listen, you know what happened? I'd love to give you this money, too.

[Angela]

Yes, she came to me. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay. I think you need to drop the guilt for taking it. Could you use 70 grand right now?

[Dave Ramsey]

Everybody could send it to me.

[Angela]

Right? I mean, we have three kids. Like, obviously it would be helpful, but we, you know, we're not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, you weren't asking for it. You're not needy. You're not begging. She has a million dollars or whatever, and if she gives away 140 of it at this stage of life, it doesn't affect her.

[Angela]

Right, Right. Correct.

[George Camel]

Here's my take. We're Southern Baptist over here. We call that blocking a blessing. You don't want to block a blessing. That's what you're doing right now by not allowing your mom to give you this money.

[Angela]

I didn't say no. I just. I just felt, like, conflicted about it because I. Because also, my brother does not have a lot of. Doesn't have a high earning potential. Like, he just doesn't have.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not your fault.

[Angela]

The situation that I'm in with my husband and my kids, it's not your fault, okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

You didn't cause any of this. You just showed up to the party in the DNA pool, right?

[George Camel]

You're the prodigal son's brother, right? Prodigal son misbehaved. Dad comes home and says, hey, party at my house. Prodigal son's back. And now you get to come to the party, too, and enjoy the feast. I see no problem with this.

[Angela]

Okay?

[George Camel]

Regardless of my opinion of going 70 grand to debt and then having get out of jail free card, the fact that she wants to give you this money has no bearing on what happened.

[Dave Ramsey]

Any of that. Yeah. As long as there's no. As long as she's not going to come over and start managing your business after this. Okay. No strings attached. She's good at. She's good at boundaries. And you are, too, right?

[Angela]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Do you harbor resentment for your sibling?

[Angela]

You know, a little bit. A little bit. There's, like a lot of backstory here. Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I love him and I want to help him, and I feel like we've done everything we can and he's just not taking the help, so it's hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

You're a good person.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are. You are good. I agree. I agree. Now, the last thing is there's a little technical issue here that's more than you can give an individual from an individual without getting into gift tax. So she needs to investigate with her tax preparer or her estate planning attorney. The. Write this down. The Unified Estate Tax Credit. She needs to use up some of her federal exemption on these two gifts to keep from getting gift taxed at 55% it is right now.

[George Camel]

So you got to file all the right forms with the irs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mom's got a little paperwork to do. Her mom is going to get spanked by the irs, and you don't want that. There's no need. One simple piece of paper will keep that from happening. All right, You. You can. I mean, an individual cannot give an individual $70,000 without gift tax and without utilizing something like the Unified Estate Tax Credit, using some of your federal estate tax exemption towards the gift. That's what it amounts to. So please make sure, because mom may never file it, but someday they might audit her and then, oh, my goodness, we're going to have a 40 or $50,000 tax bill on these things, and you just don't want that. It's not a good idea. Open phones here at Triple 882-5-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. You know, that's last hour we had the question about the bone marrow and do I have to take care of. Do I have to take care of my sisters? Do I have to give her money for misbehaving with money? Now brother's misbehaving with money, mom bails him out. And so there's a. I think a lot of the questions that people have and a lot of questions we get around here are around this idea of how do I be kind to ridiculous extended family behaviors regarding money. Asking for money, expecting money, being entitled to money. Mom, you know, taking care of basically enabling a brother probably is what she's saying. She's a little bit bitter about that. I don't blame her. And then how do I. How do I respond to her wanting to give me money so she feels better about herself, which is kind of what she's doing. Probably.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the man. There's a lot of stuff going on there, so. Money does not make the world go round. Try it again. Money does not make the world. It does not fix broken hearts. It does not make bad behavior become good behavior. It does not make lack of discipline look like discipline. Money doesn't fix those things. When you pour money on messes, it makes the messes bigger, magnifies it doesn't make them smaller. It actually peels back any illusion that this was okay and makes it just really look stupid. Money does that. It magnifies good character and bad character, good behavior and bad behavior. But money in and of itself is not a salve. It doesn't. It doesn't fix everything for you. I'll be okay. No, you won't. You'll still be mad. You'll still have a broken heart. You'll still. It's. That's not what it's for. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story and it's a lie. In our self obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets, our own workout routines, our own jobs, our own social media feeds, everything. It's easy to forget that no one can do life alone. And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you want to call yourself. We all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourselves to knowing that we can only be well and whole when we ask for help. Therapy can be a great source of help and support for any area of your life. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, so it can fit with your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney it's the last call for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our two night virtual event, Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials. It's set for May 21 and 22 and you do not want to miss this. I'll unpack my personal playbook on investing and real estate and show you how you can feel confident in your investments, too. Tickets are 199. Snag a VIP ticket and you'll get two sessions with a Ramsey preferred coach. You can join from anywhere. Go to ramseysolutions.com, and get your ticket today. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Michelle is in Cincinnati. Hi, Michelle. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Angela]

Hi, Dave. Thanks so much for taking my call. I am on Baby Step two. I have been on Baby Step two for about a year. My conundrum is I have an opportunity to take a job in a really remote location, really far away from family. My kids are grown, but I was widowed about 25 years ago and raised them all on my own. But the positive to all of this is that it comes with a lot of financial benefit to help out with student loan debt and such. And I'm kind of feeling guilt for wanting to do this, going so far away from family for financial. So I'm kind of like, is it loving money that I want to do this for?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you love freedom and you're wanting to be free of the debt.

[Angela]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not loving money. That's wanting to be free. That's a valid sacrifice. It's a valid thing. So, you know, it's what I always look at on something like this is what's the return on the effort and what's the time frame? Because I could do anything for a short period of time. I don't want to sign up for 10 years in Uganda or whatever it is. Right. I mean, no, thank you.

[Angela]

Two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Two years. And how much do you make now? How much would you make if you did this and how fast will you get out of debt?

[Angela]

Well, it would basically give roughly about 100,000 toward my student loan debt. So it would cut it over half and it would give me a lot of financial freedom after that two years, like coming back and actually being able to spend time with grandkids and such.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you would be Debt free after 2 years?

[Angela]

Close to debt free. Yeah. I would probably still have maybe about $30,000 in student loan debt. But yeah.

[George Camel]

And if you stay the course you're on. Now, how long would it take to pay off the debt?

[Angela]

Hopefully Social Security will pay it off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yikes. It won't either.

[Angela]

It won't? No, it won't. So, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you.

[Angela]

I'm 53.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're saying you. You. You have no other real. I mean, it's. How much student loan debt did you run up?

[Angela]

I. Well, I ran up 120,000, but kicking the can down the road, as you say, it's close to about 165 right now. I used. Yeah, I used it to supplement my income raising my kids. When my husband died, my kids were young. We had nothing. It was a suicide. So we literally had nothing. So it. Yeah. So I stayed at home, went to college late, and I did it so that I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long ago was his death?

[Angela]

25 years ago. I was 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

This has been following you forever.

[Angela]

For a while. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you could give up two years and be done.

[Angela]

Yes. And my kids are supportive. I think my.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, emotionally the trade off is okay. 25 years of hell. Two years, I can be rid of it. That's a good trade.

[George Camel]

The kids will be okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is not you chasing money. It is you chasing freedom.

[Angela]

Okay. I needed to hear that. I think from a Christian standpoint, that's what I hear. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not. It's not greed that's driving this. It's anything but. It's quite the opposite. It's. You have had the hell beat out of you financially.

[Angela]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're wanting to get this behind you.

[Angela]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't blame you. This is Band aid rip off.

[Angela]

Yeah. And I'm good with that. I mean, I was brought up by a Marine, so I'm okay with that. Hard work. I don't have a problem with that. I just wanted to. From a Christian financial standpoint, I wanted to make sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I think it's quite the opposite from a Christian financial standpoint. I think this is time for my daughter, my sister, the widow, to be free.

[Angela]

Hmm.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think she's been under the thumb of the freaking government long enough with these student loans beating her to death. I would love for you to be free, daughter.

[Angela]

Awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now what are they going to pay at the remote location?

[Angela]

Actual pay. Actual actual pay. It'll come out to be about 95,000 gross.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And then they're going to get pay off a bunch of your student loan debt. And they're probably providing housing because you're in the middle of nowhere or something like that.

[Angela]

Housing is cheaper. I'm like, going to be renting a room. So. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So. And you have 120,000 left.

[Angela]

Roughly.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they're going to pay how much of that?

[Angela]

Up to $100,000. So it's 50,000 per year?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. Then you're making 95 and living in a no place, nowhere. One bedroom. You should be able to pay off the rest of it. I don't want you to come home with any debt.

[Angela]

Right. That would be my hope.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not a hope. It's a plan.

[Angela]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you're making 95,000. They're paying 100 of the 120. Find the other 20 in two years, kiddo. Be done with this thing.

[Angela]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Rear view mirror. Look in the past and go, that's where that needs to stay.

[Angela]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Do you have any other debt?

[Angela]

I have a credit card of like, 8,000 from, like, I had teeth repaired this year, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got to stop using this stuff. Okay.

[Angela]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got to be clear. Your goal is freedom. 100% freedom. Cut the card up, look at your budget and go, I'm not doing anything. And these student loans are going to die. This mess that. That I've lived through is going to be in my rearview mirror, and I'm going to have a fresh start when I am 55 years young.

[Angela]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

The encore. The curtain goes up, you take a bow, and you take one more act in the play.

[Angela]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's going to be amazing because you're going to be first time. You're going to be free because you have poured your life out for everyone else to take care of the kids and to make sure everybody's okay, and then to pay these stinking bills. And now you're going to go give up two years of your life to take care of these bills. You're a strong, cool woman. I like you a lot. You're amazing. Go get it done, sister. Get it done. But be 100% done when you come home. Don't screw around with this. Knock it out. Be done with it. That's very cool.

[George Camel]

I like it. First time she's going to be debt free in her adult life. It's going to taste different.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ouch. Asher's in Grand Rapids. Hey, Asher, what's up?

[Angela]

Hello. So I just wanted. Yeah, I was calling in because I have problems with, like, impulsive spending.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too.

[Angela]

Yeah. Like, but it's. It's bad like this. I'm 20 years old. This is the first job that I've had, and it's not making me much. It's only like 200 bucks a week. But I'm living with my parents, so it's not like I have to pay rent or anything like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you're in school.

[Angela]

I, like. I've been. I've been working.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you in school?

[Angela]

It's only 100 bucks. I am not. No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you only making $200?

[Angela]

I'm only making 200 bucks a week because I don't have a license because I got into it too late, and I'm still trying to get. Get it now. I'm trying to get it now.

[George Camel]

Got into what too late.

[Angela]

So there was a whole thing that happened with my Social Security card getting lost. And so I had to get that renewed, and that took like two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have to have a Social Security card to get a driver's license. You have to have birth certificate. And you're in Grand Rapids. You can get a birth certificate. You have. Your parents have your birth certificate.

[Angela]

We do have it, but they told me I needed a Social Security card, which we got it all together.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who told you that I'm getting.

[Angela]

The people at the Social Security. The people at the.

[George Camel]

Department of Motor Vehicles.

[Angela]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, let's talk about your spending here. You got no money to spend, so what are you spending your money on and how much?

[Angela]

I'm getting 200 bucks a week. I've been working maybe four and a half months now, and I've been spending it all on, like, I've been really spending it all on online games and food, which is obviously not good, and I know it's not good. And I need to get out of this rut. I just haven't been able to figure out the best way to do that.

[George Camel]

Okay, hang on, line. I'm gonna send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from broke. Read through the whole thing, especially the spending is self control chapter. I think it's going to help you get control of this because you're too young to be making dumb decisions, which is when we all made them. But you can be set free of.

[Dave Ramsey]

This and go get your driver's licensing, work 40 hours a week, and it'll start to solve a lot of these problems.

[George Camel]

Now, less video games, more work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, no excuses. This is the Ramsay Show. Hey, you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks, and you probably already know which ones I mean, But I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000. It's easy to join, and Fairwinds partners with more than 5,000 credit union locations around the country, so you can bank in person wherever you live. But if you prefer the online experience, you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. And while you're there, look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's Fairwinds. F A I R W I n d s.org Ramsey hey guys, good news. Presale is on now for my new book, build a business you love. If you're a business owner, you know running a business is hard. That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes. Pre order your copy today and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com store pre order today. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co host in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the de free stage. Cameron and Faith are with us. Hey guys. How are you?

[George Camel]

Very good, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you live?

[George Camel]

We live in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, right outside of Knoxville.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesomeness. Well, welcome to Nashville and all the way over here to do your debt free scream. How much have you paid off? We paid off $161,400. Way to go. How long did that take? 43 months. Good for you and your range of income during that time. We started at 77,000 and now we're at 180. Oh, I like that. Not bad. In under four years? A little over three years. So what do you do for a living and how do you triple your income?

[George Camel]

Well, I'm a mechanical engineer.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm also a mechanical engineer.

[George Camel]

And she.

[Dave Ramsey]

One of you wasn't working. You got it. That's it. All right. That's it.

[George Camel]

So she was still in school when we started.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay.

[George Camel]

And then she jumped on and helped out quite a bit, obviously.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then both of you jumped way up quick on your. On your raises as well.

[George Camel]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You hit the ground running hard. Well, that's great. Yeah. Engineers are the number one category of millionaires in our study of millionaires, so. And you got two of them. Yep. So you're in really good shape.

[George Camel]

This is boding well for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Double your chances there. I like it a lot. Very well done. Okay. What kind of debt was this? Student loans?

[George Camel]

No, sir. It was our house.

[Dave Ramsey]

You paid off your house?

[George Camel]

Yes, sir. Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you two? I'm 24.

[George Camel]

I'm 27. That's illegal.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are so weird. I love you. What's this house worth?

[George Camel]

I'd say about 290 now. Somewhere in that range.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Wow. How long you been out of school?

[George Camel]

I've been out just. Just around four years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I've been out about two. Okay. Wow. And you have a $300,000 paid for house. Your family's got to be looking at you like, you lot, like, who are these people? They didn't come from us.

[George Camel]

They have some comments.

[Dave Ramsey]

Some good, some bad, I bet. Some jealous and some cheering you on.

[George Camel]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I love it. Wow, man. $300,000 paid for house in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Where'd you graduate from, ut?

[George Camel]

No, sir. We were actually. I originally from Memphis, so we were a school. Local school there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Wonderful. In terms of your undergrad?

[George Camel]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Both undergraduates.

[Dave Ramsey]

So are you working for. Who you working for in Oak Ridge? Can you say?

[George Camel]

I can say, yeah. It's Oak Ridge National Labs, actually.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I was thinking. Okay, that's perfect. Wow. Very cool. Very cool. Good for you guys. That's fun. So how did you get connected to all this Ramsey stuff?

[George Camel]

So I can attest to my mom, she. We were homeschooled, and we started in the foundations and finance course for that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love Mom. She's awesome.

[George Camel]

She is awesome. She has been our biggest cheerleader through the years, but I can thank her a lot for that. And then we just kind of did the Dave Ramsey method. We actually bought the house, or I bought the house prior to marriage. No score loan with Churchill Mortgage, actually. So it worked out perfectly to a T. Those guys were super helpful through the whole process, and we just ate away at it. We actually were here two years ago, almost the day for the first event. Up the hill.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah.

[George Camel]

And that's where we decided, you know what? We could knock this out whenever she graduates. So that's what we did. We planned it out. So you pre decided that you were gonna be done with debt completely before you were 30. Did you have a set goal to pay it off in a certain amount of time? We did. Yeah. I bet a couple of engineers had a plan. Oh, of course. That's the only way we can live. So what was the original gameplay plan? So the game plan was we were going to pay it off by January 1st of this year, 2025. Her birthday is on the 30th. Prior to that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So we were trying to knock it out. Then we missed that date by eight days. Wow. So a little. I'm gonna call that a bullseye.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think. I think you're a failure. I don't think you made it. I. I think you should be real disappointed. You guys are awesome. Hero Rose. Well done. Well done. So Faith did that either? Well, I mean, you grew up in our family, Cameron, with homeschooling on foundations. Okay, so. But Faith, did your family look at y'all like, who have you married? A little bit. I actually had a similar story to Cameron, where I took your class in high school. Actually, Coach Bunch, he was my teacher there, and he still teaches personal finance. Your fundamentals foundations class, where is this? At Trinity Christian Academy. It's in Jackson, Tennessee. Yeah. Okay.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wonderful. Thanks, coach. Yeah, for real. He. He taught me then, and we just kind of followed the principles and found.

[George Camel]

Him, and it just stuck when you went through the curriculum. Okay, one day I'm gonna. We're gonna do this stuff. We're gonna live debt free and see what happens. And, I mean, you guys are living proof of what it means to get started on the plan early. You know, we talk about financial peace, babies, and here you are, 24 and 27, no payments in the world. That's really weird.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now that's a homeschool curriculum and a high school curriculum right there.

[George Camel]

It works. Way to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ramsey education team normalized it into where you went. And then he went, got a something that no one knows how to do. Got a no score like you got you and Whitney. And then you paid off your home, too, from Churchill. Mortgage. No credit score mortgage. And that's at the same interest rate as everybody else. And then turn around and pays it off in 43 tiny little months. And, man, that's amazing. I'm so proud of you. You guys are like proof that we're gonna be okay in America. Your generation. You're bringing it, man. I love it. Way to go. That's very cool. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is gotta have a plan. Absolutely.

[George Camel]

You're not gonna get anywhere if you don't plan it out. Actually, you will. You'll get nowhere.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. Your plan is so detailed, you know, within eight days of what it's supposed to land. It's not a. This was not a plan. Lacking in detail. These are a couple engineers. It's one of the reasons the engineers do so well is they plan and they like numbers and they're thinking about how. What it takes to win.

[George Camel]

Process driven, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Process driven. Process orientation, you know. That's exactly right. Way to go, you two. Very, very cool. I'm proud of you. How's it feel? Do you have any idea how rich you're going to be? I mean, this is unbelievable.

[George Camel]

It really hasn't hit yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have.

[George Camel]

We've had a couple months now of no mortgage payment, so it feels odd. The money just kind of sits there now. I guess it's going to have a final plan for that too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. You better be careful that you enjoy some of it, that you invest some of it, and that you're overly generous with some of it because that's where you are early. And I mean, you have a $300,000 paid for house, you're making $200,000 a year. You don't have payment in the world. And you have the ability to work together, which most couples don't. And you have the ability to set a goal and hit it, which most people don't know how to do. I'm predicting, you know, probably a $30 million net worth, at least, minimum. So I think that's where you'll land. So good job, man. Y'all are incredible. It's absolutely. And all from a homeschool curriculum and a high school curriculum with a coach.

[George Camel]

That's incredible. So parents out there, you're going, I hope this sticks with the kids. Hey, they're. They're taking it all. And even if they have their arms crossed the whole time, they can't not remember the time when Dave said, debt is dumb. Cash is kings. You know, ignorance was bliss. And you go through that curriculum and now you know too much about car loans and budgeting and saving, and you guys are living proof this stuff still works.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's amazing. It's very, very cool.

[George Camel]

And we got two Every dollar subscriptions for you. You can use those or pay it, pay it forward to someone else and get them started when they go, wait, what do you mean, a no score? What are you Smoking man. You just check this out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I got you. I got you covered. On, on That a way to go. You two. Cameron and Faith. Knoxville, Oak Ridge, Tennessee. 161,000 paid off. That's house and everything. At 24 and 27 years old, the house is worth 300 grand. They're making 188 these days. You guys are awesome. Your heroes, man. I'm impressed. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[George Camel]

Three, two, one.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're debt free. Yeah. Amazing.

[George Camel]

Now if we could just clone them and put them all over America, this country would be in a different place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave. It's up to the parents and the teachers because we've got the curriculum. Obviously, from the time I wrote the very first book, people said this ought to be taught in high schools. You're right. And finally we developed a high school curriculum. Now 48% of the high schools have taught it. Over 6 million students have gone through this in high school, not counting homeschool school.

[Angela]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's, it's pretty crazy how many. And you teachers and you principals out there, you can do this. You educators, you can do this for these kids. You set them up. You moms and dads that are homeschooling, you can set them up. And these young people right here, man, they're going to be so generous, so wealthy. They're a wonderful couple. I mean, wow. Talk about winning. That's very cool. This is the Ramsay Show. These days the Internet is chock full of so called investing advice from random goobs with zero qualifications. Listen folks, you deserve guidance from someone who knows what the flip they're talking about. That's why I recommend the SmartVestor program. SmartVestors can help you find a professional financial advisor who can teach you to make your own best decisions with your own money. Get [e-mail] smartvestor again ramseysolutions.com smartvestor Ramsey.

[George Camel]

Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're a business owner or you know one, you know the truth about it. Running a business is hard. When you open your own business, you find out you have a jerk for a boss. Don't work your butt off, man. Work you into the dirt. Work you like a rented mule. I'm just saying it's hard out there, man. It's hard. You scratch your claw, you make payroll on Friday, you make mistakes. And as soon as you start winning, some idiot says you're so lucky. Luck didn't have nothing to do with it. Right? It's tough. The challenges pile up. The fear creeps in. You're left wondering if you're even doing it right. And that's why I wrote this latest book. It comes out April 15, where you got it on pre sale right now. BUILD a business you love. We've grown, Ramsey, from a card table in my living room to where we are today. And I built a business I love. I've enjoyed it. It's been tough. I won't tell you. It's easy. And it's not for everybody. It's certainly not for wuss. It's. It's not a wussy thing. You gotta get it. But if you're running something or you're thinking about running something, you don't have to go it alone. I can show you exactly how to do it. There are five distinct stages of business. We've proven that not only with our business, but with the 10,000 businesses we coach. And there are six drivers that drive you through it. In other words, this system is the baby steps for small business. And you don't want to miss this. Build a business you love. It's 29.99. If you pre order it before April 15th, the pub date, you get over $350 in free bonus items including instant access to our entree leadership videos on hiring and firing. It's a big deal. Early access to the ebook and the enhanced audiobook are part of the package to pre [e-mail] store. Build a business you love. On sale now at a deal Ashley's in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Ashley. How are you?

[Angela]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

[Angela]

Oh, my question for you is, should I sell my rental property to pay off my student loan debt?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. How much student loan debt you got?

[Angela]

A lot. $338,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is a lot. Are you a doctor or a lawyer?

[Angela]

Lawyer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what's your income?

[Angela]

So excluding like the rental property, it's 95. Around 95 to 100,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long you been on my bonuses?

[Angela]

Since 2019.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. When are you going to start making some more money with your law degree?

[Angela]

Yeah, that's a. I guess that's a problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

You spent a lot of money on a law degree because you could make a lot of money and now you're not making a lot of money.

[Angela]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Diesel mechanics make more than you.

[Angela]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what are you going to do to get your Career going, kiddo.

[Angela]

Change jobs. Let's start there, I guess.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And what's the rental property worth?

[Angela]

The rental property is funny. It's worth the same amount as my debt. 338,000. That's the current.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it paid for value?

[Angela]

No. I wish.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so it won't pay off the student loan debt. How much do you owe on it?

[Angela]

176,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you get 100 grand, 150 grand out of it, right?

[Angela]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that'll definitely help. Instead of you being in debt for 10 years, we can speed this process up by selling this rental property. You got any savings, anything else you could sell?

[Angela]

So I currently have a storage unit with some stuff in it that I've been trying to, like, sell all of that stuff out.

[George Camel]

And you're paying for the storage unit?

[Angela]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So let's free up money, every nook and cranny in your budget, and we're gonna get you on a budget because that's gonna be the real path out of here, regardless of what happens. Getting your income up, getting your expenses down. But I'd love to see you debt free in under two years. You could do that if you got intense.

[Angela]

Oh, for sure. Especially if I sold the property. I been torn between selling it and moving into it, and so I just.

[Dave Ramsey]

What word are you living in currently?

[Angela]

I live with my parents, but I was about to start renting.

[David]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's about renting. That's fine. Yeah, I believe I would. Now, I was one of the first in my family to get a formal education. Are you?

[Angela]

I am. Well, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Angela]

I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me ask you if this is true. And you. It's okay if it's not. You please tell me the truth. Okay. I'm not. I'm not forcing this on you, because there's a lot of symptoms in this conversation that make me think this, and I'm not sure if I'm right. Okay. So you can. You can correct me, but did you kind of have the idea, like I did, that we were sold? If you go get a law degree, they're just gonna start sending you big checks. It's gonna be, like, easy.

[Angela]

Yep. So I probably said I wanted to be a lawyer as a kid.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You worked your tail off and were really, really focused till you passed the bar. And you thought at that point this was gonna get easier.

[Angela]

Yes. And it definitely did not.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it did the opposite, and you fell backward into a half. But lawyer job.

[Angela]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Instead of a really, really good one making 200.

[Angela]

Correct. Yeah, correct.

[George Camel]

What kind of law are you doing? Is it the specific niche that you're in that's not making it?

[Angela]

I would say it's the specific niche. It's real estate law.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So here, here's what I'm pointing to. And I lived through this. And I know a whole bunch of other people that have lived through the same thing. Now that you have discovered that the education is not the cause of your success, instead you are going to be the cause of your success. That should give you some new energy to go kill some things and drag them home. So go get an apartment, sell this condo, clean out this storage shed, get your butt in gear and go make you some money. Because the calvary's not coming. It's not gonna get easy. You're the secret sauce to the success, not the degree. The degree, as you have discovered and I have discovered is not magical.

[Angela]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You see what I'm following? You see what I'm doing?

[Angela]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the same incredible determination and sacrifice emotionally and psychologically that you used to go get this degree because it was supposed to Willy Wonka's golden ticket, I want you to use that same determination that's inside of you to go now, be somebody.

[Angela]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

You follow me because this is all. This all looks like you peaked out at graduation and have been sliding ever since. You're living at home. You got a storage unit, you got this rental unit. You're in a substandard, you're not making the money you ought to be making, as smart as you are. And I want you to go get rid of every bit of that. I want you to go get some money. You have earned the right to go get it. You are a star. Go act like it. Go get some. Get this stuff knocked out. Clean this stinking mess up. Get you a grown up life. Like, I have my own apartment. I live in my mom's living room. I'm a freaking lawyer for God's sakes. You know, go stand up, girl, and get this storage unit cleaned out, get this thing sold. And then start looking for a better opportunity and walk in with a little bit like a lot of superstar confidence when you walk into the interview for the next place, because you are that person. Okay? That's what's going on. So you get our income to 200k, we get this mess cleaned up. This stuff's gone in a heartbeat. But we tell everybody this and then. And if you come from a demographic, we'll just call it, if you come from a background where the people around you Were not people of four year degrees. They tend to think sometimes in that culture that. In the culture that she and I are talking about that, that if you get the degree, it's Willy Wonka's golden ticket. And people that have. That are like third generation have had college degree, college degree, college degree, they know it's not. They know it's not the cause of success, that it's just some tools in your belt that you still gotta get up, leave the cave, kill something and drag it home. You still gotta go be somebody. You still gotta double up your fist and bust some noses. You still gotta push out there and make it happen. Your degree is not a guarantee of success. It's quite the opposite. Opposite. It'll actually hold you back if you stop and. And. But our. If you come out of that and the people around you didn't know that then you believe that and it shut. It messes with you. Yeah. So part of where the student loan crisis has come from.

[George Camel]

Everyone should go watch Borrowed Future on our YouTube channel. It's our documentary on the student loan crisis and it explains all this beautifully.

[Dave Ramsey]

Falls right in line with every bit of that. Wow, you're cool. I like you a lot. You're gonna do good. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Hey, you're still here. What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey network app, right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey network in the app store, Google play store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right. For free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.