Don’t Give All Your Money to Banks and Wonder Why You’re Broke

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Don’t Give All Your Money to Banks and Wonder Why You’re Broke"

Release Date: April 2, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey and his expert team tackle a variety of financial dilemmas submitted by listeners. From concerns about unethical financial practices and mortgage woes to marriage budgeting conflicts and strategic home buying for military families, the show provides actionable advice rooted in ethical financial stewardship and wealth-building principles.

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1. Caller Rachel Cruz: Ethical Concerns Over Asset Transfers

Timestamp: [00:59] – [07:12]

Issue:
Rachel Cruz sought advice regarding her girlfriend's father's decision to transfer all parental investments to his daughter, enabling her sister to receive a larger financial aid package. Rachel suspects potential fraud and is contemplating signing a prenup without fully understanding the ethical implications.

Dave Ramsey’s Response:
Dave Ramsey unequivocally labeled the transfer as "ethically horrendous," emphasizing that even if it's not criminal fraud, it's morally wrong. He stressed the importance of maintaining ethical standards over questionable financial maneuvers.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [03:21]: "It's ethically, ridiculously bad. This guy has no ethics..."

Advice Given:

• Do Not Participate: Ramsey advised Rachel to refuse involvement in the unethical asset transfer.
• Prenup Considerations: He mentioned that a prenup cannot mitigate unethical financial behavior.
• Relationship Integrity: Emphasized that compromising on ethics could lead to long-term relationship issues.

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2. Rachel Cruz: Struggling with an Expensive Mortgage

Timestamp: [11:47] – [19:57]

Issue:
Rachel approached the show with concerns about her $5,300 monthly mortgage, which consumes approximately 75% of her take-home pay of $7,700. She fears the mortgage is unsustainable and is affecting her relationship and financial stability.

Dave Ramsey’s Response:
Ramsey recommended selling the house immediately, highlighting that the mortgage was "killing you, eating you alive." He expressed shock that Rachel managed to sustain such an unrealistic budget for over a year without collapsing financially.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [14:15]: "You need to sell this house yesterday."

Advice Given:

• Sell the Home: Ramsey urged Rachel to offload the house to relieve financial and emotional stress.
• Financial Health: He emphasized that maintaining such a high mortgage payment is detrimental to overall financial well-being.
• Emotional Relief: Selling the house would provide immediate psychological and financial relief.

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3. Caller Craig from Delaware: Mortgage-Free Home Buying vs. Investing

Timestamp: [22:45] – [28:35]

Issue:
Craig and his wife are planning to buy a new home without taking on a mortgage, using their savings as a down payment. Friends advise them to keep cash liquid and invest the difference instead, arguing that investment returns could surpass mortgage savings.

Dave Ramsey’s Response:
Ramsey debunked the investment-first approach by referencing a study where 89% of America's millionaires did not use mortgages to invest but instead built wealth by avoiding debt. He stressed that the risk and lack of peace of mind associated with mortgages outweigh potential investment gains.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [23:52]: "89% of America's millionaires are not millionaires because of inherited money."

Advice Given:

• Continue Debt-Free Strategy: Ramsey confirmed that Craig's approach aligns with proven wealth-building habits.
• Avoid Mortgage Investment Spread Risks: He cautioned against borrowing to invest, citing that none of the surveyed millionaires followed this path successfully.
• Focus on Increasing Income: Emphasized that one's income is the most powerful tool for building wealth.

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4. Voicemail from Jared: Balancing Savings and Debt Repayment

Timestamp: [32:33] – [35:55]

Issue:
Jared has $16,000 in savings and $16,000 in debt. He feels more secure keeping his savings intact rather than using them to pay down his debt, despite understanding that debt is costing him more.

Dave Ramsey’s Response:
Ramsey identified Jared's "illusion of security," explaining that holding onto savings while carrying debt doesn't provide true financial safety. He advocated for prioritizing debt repayment to eliminate financial burdens and reduce overall risk.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [33:15]: "You have the illusion that you're safe. It's an illusion because you're broke and in debt."

Advice Given:

• Pay Off Debt First: Ramsey advised Jared to utilize his savings to eliminate debt, thereby enhancing his financial security.
• Start Baby Steps: Suggested Jared begin with Baby Step 1—saving a $1,000 emergency fund—before aggressively tackling larger debts.

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5. Caller James from New Orleans: Allocating Tithes to the Church

Timestamp: [35:55] – [39:23]

Issue:
James questioned whether tithe contributions should exclusively support the local church or if they could be directed to other Christian organizations, especially if the church is declining.

Dave Ramsey’s Response:
Ramsey clarified that tithes, traditionally 10% of income, are biblically designated for the local church. Offerings beyond the tithe can be allocated to other Christian causes. He stressed the importance of supporting the church as the central institution for spiritual and community support.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [36:25]: "The tithe is not a salvation issue. God doesn't love tithers more than non-tithers."

Advice Given:

• Tithe to Local Church: Encourage believers to fulfill their tithe obligation by supporting their local church.
• Offerings to Other Causes: Additional donations can be directed to broader Christian organizations as desired.

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6. Caller Rick from Phoenix: Taking Over a Business

Timestamp: [43:58] – [52:02]

Issue:
Rick sought guidance on potentially taking over his boss's business, which would entail buying it or being handed ownership.

Dave Ramsey’s Response:
Ramsey provided a structured approach for business acquisition, emphasizing the importance of clear financial agreements and thorough understanding of the business operations before finalizing any transaction.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [47:22]: "You have to clear it with the siblings, and everybody has to be okay with whatever the deal is."

Advice Given:

• Structured Payment Plans: Suggest setting payments based on net profit rather than fixed terms to ensure sustainability.
• Ensure Control and Knowledge: Before the transaction, Ralph should take leadership roles and fully learn the business’s intricacies.
• Protect Against Future Disputes: Incorporate clauses that protect both parties in case the business doesn't perform as expected or if unforeseen circumstances arise.

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7. Caller Robert: Marriage Conflicts Over Budgeting

Timestamp: [64:23] – [73:52]

Issue:
Robert and his wife are experiencing frequent conflicts over budgeting, with his wife consistently overspending despite already having debts. He fears that their differing financial habits could lead to divorce.

Dave Ramsey’s Response:
Ramsey and co-host John Deloney discussed the importance of aligning financial values and establishing clear boundaries. They recommended pre-marriage counseling to address and resolve these issues before formalizing the marriage.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [71:13]: "We are not going to participate in [the conflict]."

Advice Given:

• Pre-Marriage Counseling: Encourage Robert and his wife to engage in counseling focused on financial alignment.
• Establish Shared Values: Work together to determine mutual financial goals and boundaries.
• Adopt a Unified Budgeting Approach: Create a realistic budget that accommodates both partners' financial habits and responsibilities.

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8. Caller Seth from Virginia Beach: Saving for a Home While in Military Housing

Timestamp: [76:09] – [82:55]

Issue:
Seth, a Marine Corps member with a family, is seeking advice on saving for a down payment on a house while frequently relocating due to military assignments. He’s contemplating using saved funds as a down payment and is considering pausing other financial goals.

Dave Ramsey’s Response:
Ramsey advised Seth to prioritize renting over buying under these circumstances. He highlighted the transient nature of military life and recommended avoiding VA loans due to their higher costs. Ramsey emphasized focusing on building savings and investing for long-term stability rather than rushing into homeownership.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [82:55]: "So, just rent. Just rent."

Advice Given:

• Opt to Rent: Given the frequent moves, renting is financially wiser and reduces stress compared to homeownership.
• Avoid VA Loans: Ramsey cautioned against VA loans, recommending conventional mortgages instead due to lower costs.
• Assess Local Market Trends: Before purchasing, investigate local real estate trends to ensure potential profitability and ease of resale.

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Special Segment: Responding to Listener Isaiah’s Critique

Timestamp: [27:30] – [63:12]

Issue:
A listener named Isaiah challenged Ramsey’s advice on long-term investment returns, questioning the feasibility of building substantial wealth within a typical lifespan.

Dave Ramsey’s Response:
In a highly uncharacteristic and impassioned response, Ramsey vehemently defended his financial principles, emphasizing the success of the Baby Steps methodology and dismissing Isaiah’s concerns as uninformed. He reiterated that disciplined saving and debt elimination are proven paths to financial stability and wealth.

Notable Quote:

Dave Ramsey [60:42]: "Anyone who saves $100, but by the way, almost no one saves like I would say really close to zero..."

Advice Given:

• Stick to Proven Principles: Ramsey encouraged listeners to adhere to the Baby Steps plan, highlighting its effectiveness through social proof and research.
• Dismiss Negative Influences: He advised ignoring misguided financial advice that contradicts established wealth-building strategies.
• Maintain Optimism and Discipline: Emphasized the importance of maintaining hope and discipline in financial planning to achieve long-term goals.

Note: This segment showcases Ramsey's passionate defense of his financial advice, reflecting the high stakes and emotions involved in personal financial planning.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Ramsey Show underscores the importance of ethical financial practices, disciplined budgeting, and aligning financial goals within personal relationships. Dave Ramsey and his team provide clear, actionable advice to navigate complex financial issues, emphasizing the long-term benefits of debt elimination, ethical decision-making, and strategic financial planning. Listeners are encouraged to engage in thorough financial evaluation, seek professional counseling when needed, and remain steadfast in their commitment to building wealth responsibly.

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Listeners Interested in Further Engagement:

• Live Q&A Session: Join Dave Ramsey and John Deloney on their Money and Relationships tour covering topics like raising great kids, handling money fights, and making real friends.
• Business Insights: Explore the Entree Leadership Podcast for tactical advice on running successful businesses based on Ramsey’s 30 years of experience.
• Upcoming Events: Attend live shows in cities like Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City. Tickets available at ramseysolutions.com/tour.

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and advice presented in the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who may not have listened to the full podcast.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. Where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one best selling author, host of the Rachel Cruze show and Smart Money Happy hour co host. My daughter is my co host today. Open phones at 888-820-55225. Cody is in Boston. Hey Cody, what's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi Mr. Ramsey and Mrs. Cruz. Thanks for having me on.

[John Deloney]

Sure.

[Rachel Cruz]

I hope the cruise went well.

[Dave Ramsey]

It did. It was fabulous.

[John Deloney]

It was good.

[Dave Ramsey]

We missed you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hopefully next year. So I have a question. I'm planning on proposing to my girlfriend here coming up soon. But back in November she told me that her father had transferred all of her parents investments to her so that her sister could get a larger financial aid package. I basically said to not tell me anything more because I think this might be fraud. She said her dad talked to someone and he said it was all fine. And then a month ago I went to ask for hand to her parents. They said yes. But her dad kind of led me into saying that I would be willing to sign a prenup. And he doesn't know that I know about the asset transfer. Then last weekend I brought up the situation saying that I wasn't comfortable combining finances and signing marriage papers with these assets and putting my name under them again. She tells me their dad said it's above board, but I felt like it was maybe fraud. I told her that if she went to a lawyer and basically had him call me and said it was a call above board, I'd be fine with it. But I'm just kind of wanted to get your opinion on this. Is it fraud or am I just kind of being paranoid about this?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not sure if I can make the judgment on whether it's criminal fraud or not. It's definitely morally wrong.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. The Pell grants that they qualify for by posing to be poor people are for poor people.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And these people are not poor people.

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I don't know. I don't know if it's above board, quote unquote or not, but it's morally wrong. It's like saying I'm gonna not act like I don't have a job. Well now that would be fraud. If I have a job and I collect welfare checks saying I don't have a job, that'd be fraud. But it'd be like I'm not gonna. I have the ability to work and make a lot of money, but I refuse to because that way I qualify for free government, whatever. Right. Same kind of thing. And it's just. It's morally wrong. At a minimum, it is approaching the criminal side. And the bigger problem. Let's change the word. It's ethically horrendous, correct?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's ethically, ridiculously bad. This guy has no ethics, okay. He's willing to lie to the government to get poor people's student assistance.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pell grants. Pell Grants are income and asset based. And that's the only thing that quality. That's the only thing that in a possible financial aid package that would come up is the Pell Grant. Okay. Nothing else. Unless the local. Unless the college had an income based scholarship program or something. But most of them don't, so. But it's ethically wrong. That's what you're saying. And that's. That's why you got this. That's why you got slime on you. And you want to take a shower after you met with him.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So no, full stop.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Have a transfer back.

[Dave Ramsey]

Full stop. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Just. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not going to participate in this. We are going to have a standalone life that does not involve something that I feel like is unethical.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yeah, It's. It's really been weighing on me. So I really appreciate that. That light prenup.

[Dave Ramsey]

Prenup doesn't cover it. You can't prenup away a lack of ethics.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

And what's frustrating is she. Yeah. And what's frustrating, Cody, is she's, you know, in a sense, possibly the one that's going to be punished in the middle of all of this. Because, Cody, you're going to say, no, I can't. Like, I'm not signing a prenup. I'm not doing this. I can't combine finances right now. Like, this is a sticky situation. I don't feel comfortable attaching my name to all of this. And so she either has to choose.

[Dave Ramsey]

To be between her dad and her.

[John Deloney]

I mean. Yeah. To be grown up and to say, okay, I have to now think beyond what my dad says is okay and actually start, you know, having this, like, problem solving on my own with my future husband. With my future husband and deciding that. Which is going to be a, you know, a break. That's going to be a hard thing for her to do. But if she does it, then that kudos to her. Right. Of like, okay, this would be a.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can be gentle and you can be kind. You don't have to accuse him of being A liar like I am or being unethical, you can just say, you can put it all back on you and just say, look, I don't feel right about this and I'm not, and I can't go forward. Participating. I'm so sorry. Don't call her dad names. Doesn't do any good. It's not going to change him, okay? He's never going to, he's never going to say, oh, wow, my daughter's boyfriend told me I was wrong, so now I think I'm wrong. The chances of that are zero. Okay? So, I mean, you know, really, it's.

[John Deloney]

It'S, it's your relationship with her that's on the line. I mean, well, you guys having him.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just say, look, you know, you know, I'm making this up real time. I'm spitballing here, okay? But you could just say something like, you know, I got some counsel because I was confused about this and it bothered me, okay? And so take all of the weight of the problem on you and just say, I just can't go forward with this and the count. And here's what I would couch it in. All of my understanding of your daughter and I setting up a household is that we are to leave and cleave. We're to leave our parent, our mother and father, and establish our own standalone household. And this does not allow us to do that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I have to be able to do that to have a high quality relationship with your daughter. And so you guys have got to take these assets back. Well, that and I would probably have prenup. Doesn't do it. And I can't go forward if we can't have a standalone household. The intertwining of these two households is not healthy.

[John Deloney]

Well, and I think even before that conversation, though, he and her need to be on the same page to even go forward with it, because if she's like, no, no, I, this is what we're gonna do. My dad says, you, you know, he would decide to prenup you. Sorry, this is it. And she doesn't budge.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, and if she says, then that's, then that's, you know, you're making a call here. But, dude, I, I, I, you know, if you, let's say she says that and you go, okay, I'm gonna cave. I'll sign everything. We're gonna get married. What's the probability you're married 10 years later? Almost zero.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, I mean, from a single argument.

[Rachel Cruz]

That then brings up everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not A single argument over integrity. It's okay to lie to get a program that I don't qualify for, what else is she gonna be lying about? Because she thinks it's okay to lie because her dad taught her this. So, I mean, that's not cool.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, she needs to realize what's going on. And if she doesn't realize it, she's got it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you can't just cave because that condones the whole stupid thing and makes it look like it's okay. And then it extrapolates into other stuff and 10 years later you got an explosion on your.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, it's more of a. It's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sorry, that's so painful.

[John Deloney]

A revelation of character than anything else.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so it's hard. Yeah. I mean, if your parents rob banks for a living and you think it's okay, maybe we shouldn't get married. You know, it's kind of worth. It's about where it lands. Although that is a criminal act. This is not a criminal act. I get it. I'm being melodramatic, but still, that's the deal. This is the Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should, too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities with one unified business management suite. There's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's Next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey it's free at netsuite.com Ramsey at the break, I was talking to some people in the lobby from Phoenix, Dr. John Deloney. And I'll be in Phoenix on May 5th doing the money and Relationships tour. We're going to be talking about raising great kids, handling money fights the right way, making real friends in the 21st century. We're going to six cities. And it's a weird format. We've never done this before. We're going to put up about 20 different subjects in an app. When you're sitting in the audience before the show starts, you're going to vote on some Dave subjects, some John subjects, and some Dave and John subjects. And that's gonna form the format for the night. You're gonna build the talks. You're gonna build the order of the talk, or not the order, but you're gonna select what you want us to talk about. It's pretty cool. So pretty interactive. That's a cool thing. Louisville, Kentucky, is just a couple weeks away. April 21st, Durham, North Carolina, that's on Monday. On Wednesday is April 23rd is Durham. Friday is Atlanta. April 25th. A couple weeks after that, we'll be in Pho. That's a Monday. Fort Worth on Wednesday, May 7th in Kansas City. On May 9th, ramseysolutions.com tour or if you're on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the show notes and you'll get your tickets. You don't want to miss this, guys. It's gonna be a lot of fun. John and I will have a lot of fun. The only thing more fun than John and me is Rachel and John. But they did money and marriage. Yeah, money and marriage stuff's absolutely fun and hilarious and all that stuff. John, speaking of, John is in San Francisco. Hi, John, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey. I'm doing well. Thanks so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, look, I've just been listening for the last few weeks. Just a recent listener here, and I really appreciate all the advice you've been giving. I'm trying to balance a couple things. So I have sort of two questions. One is related to really expensive mortgage. I have. I bought a house a few years ago and I discovered soon enough that it was a bit of a lemon. Since then, I've been sort of spending all of my time repairing this house and trying to get it up to market value in hopes to, oh, I don't know, rent it or sell it or do something with it that could be profitable. And the second thing is that, you know, a couple years ago, I also met a lovely lady, and she's just some, about last year moved in with me. And it's been a bit of a struggle trying to have enough time for the relationship, manage the finances, as I sort of continue to progress with this very expensive mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your mortgage payment?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's 5,300amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is your take home pacer?

[Rachel Cruz]

My take home is about 7,700amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your mortgage payment? Your mortgage payment is 5,000 and your take home is 7,000. I don't know how you eat.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's about right.

[Dave Ramsey]

How do you eat?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's been tricky.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you running up credit card debt?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't have any consumer debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is there money somewhere else coming in or going out? How in the world. That's an impossible budget.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's pretty tight.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

I've had to do right. A lot of the house repairs myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

I keep things you're cutting in and out. Talk directly into your phone. What'd you say?

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, I have to keep a pretty tight budget. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you don't have a budget. This is impossible. I've done budgets for 35 years. Your mortgage is 75% of your take home pay. This is, I mean that's not sustainable. I'm shocked you've done that for more than 12 months and not caved in.

[Rachel Cruz]

I agree with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to sell this house yesterday.

[John Deloney]

Do you have a lot of savings, John? Are you feeding your, are you pulling from savings at all?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah. So I have about 30 in emergency and about 80 in stocks.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much are you burning through each month of your savings?

[Rachel Cruz]

I would say, you know, maybe a thousand, maybe fifteen hundred.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, now we got it where you can eat. Now I understand how. Because it's, I mean what you were telling me just wasn't. So so basically you're burning up your savings because you bought a house you can't afford. Sell it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep, yep. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that, that's really. It is. Should I, should I jump ship?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. Killing you, eating you alive. There's nothing in this home ownership package that is fun. Everything you've described.

[John Deloney]

You knew this, right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Like it's, it's in a high value neighborhood, it's rental market here, high in demand. San Francisco, higher than your income. Not to see, see the scars. And, and you know, the grass is always greener on the other side, so to speak.

[Dave Ramsey]

But yeah, the easier grass is always greener over the septic tank. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, exactly.

[John Deloney]

Well, sell it, John. I think it's going to relieve a lot of stress.

[Dave Ramsey]

John.

[John Deloney]

John, I think your relationship will thrive, your finances will thrive. A lot will thrive when you're not stressed. I want you stress to the max about this. I mean that's, that's hard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the thing. Not. Not only is the arithmetic absolutely ridiculous in this because you're burning arithmetic. You're saying the mathematics of this, you're saying you're burning through your savings. So that's principle number one. But what I want you to breathe in also is what this is costing you. The stress level you're carrying around all the time. When you get rid of this house, you're going to feel like you set down £300 that was on your back. And you've kind of gotten accustomed to carrying around £300. But when you set it down, you're going to go, I can breathe again. I didn't realize you could breathe like this. My lungs haven't worked like this since I bought this house. I mean, you're physically going to feel the release when you get rid of this burden. But you've intellectually and willed your way through this. You're like a bulldog that got ahold of something and won't let go. And, but, but once you let go, you're like, oh, I, I can let go and I'm free and I can breathe again. No, dude, this is not. There's nothing in this equation that's worth it. It's affecting your health long term. It's going to destroy your finances. It's affecting your emotional well being. Now you said it's affecting your relationships. So this thing, this house, owns you. And you're going to be singing like, thank God, I'm free at last when you get. And you don't even know until you set yourself free. You don't even know how much, how awesome it's going to be. This is a horrible thing for you. It's not good for John. I want John to have a home. I just don't want the home to have John. And this one owns you, my son. It owns you. Let it go.

[John Deloney]

Are you going to sing little Elsa for us?

[Dave Ramsey]

You mean sing a little Elsa?

[John Deloney]

A little Let it go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who's Elsa?

[John Deloney]

It's from Frozen.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay.

[John Deloney]

The granddaughters will teach you that soon enough. Soon enough. Let it go, John.

[Dave Ramsey]

We need to cue the granddaughters to sing Let it Go.

[John Deloney]

That's right. That's right. You know what's so, you know, it's so common to. For us, I don't know I qualify for that as Americans, though, to be so wrapped up in our stuff. And I would put homes in this home, cars in this, credit card debt, all of it, that for. For the sake of a thing, right? In a house, in of itself, it's a thing that we deteriorate so much of our peace and our mental Margin and our stress and like, I mean, so much of it for a thing. And it's not worth it. Even a house. And again, homeownership is something that like we are all about and we want you to get it and have that be part of your long term financial plan. But to the point that it's completely robbing you of a life and it's eating away at your relationships and your peace, all of it. It's just. It's just a thing. It's not worth it. It's not worth it. So as Dave and Elsa would say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, and let it go. The minimalist. Yeah, we can just play their tune right now. They would love.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So, yes, we do want you to own a home. You said you're new to this stuff, but it's much, much less home than you own right now.

[John Deloney]

And which is hard to, John, because you're in one of the most expensive real estate, San Francisco. Yeah, yeah. In the Bay Area. I mean, you're in one of the highest priced.

[Dave Ramsey]

Tokyo, New York and Silicon Valley. I mean, London. These are some of the most expensive pieces of real estate in the world. And that's where you're choosing to live, making $75,000 a year.

[John Deloney]

Well, that's after taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Well, so California, he's probably making 140 and they're taking their taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's true.

[John Deloney]

Sorry, John.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sell it, please. No, I'm not sorry. I'm happy for you.

[John Deloney]

I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm going to set you free. Now, what you thought was a dream's a nightmare. I'm going to set you free from your nightmare. This is the Ramsey Show. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something.

[John Deloney]

Well, I used to be one of those guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

I didn't even think about it.

[John Deloney]

And one of my buddies said, hey.

[Dave Ramsey]

The only reason to not have life.

[Rachel Cruz]

Insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

[John Deloney]

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[John Deloney]

For decades, Dave, I've sat across people.

[Rachel Cruz]

Who'Ve lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. They don't know what to do next. You're going to have a crisis here. You know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly. These are the two options. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them perfect personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. We've all got people we love and things we've worked hard for that we want to protect. So to keep them safe, I've recommended Simplisafe Home security for over 10 years now because they're the best. You see, traditional security systems only start working after somebody's already broken in, which is too late. But Simplisafe's active guard Outdoor protection can help prevent break ins before they happen. And Simplisafe agents can see and speak to potential intruders to help stop trouble before it makes it to your door. SimpliSafe is 247 protection for your home inside and out. And even though Simplisafe is the best, it's affordable. Monitoring starts at around a dollar a day. Your first month is free and they offer a 60 day money back guarantee. Plus there are no long term contracts or cancellation fees. And right now you get 50% off a SimpliSafe system with professional monitoring. So head to simplisafedirect.com to save 50%. That's simplisafedirect.com there's no safe like SimpliSafe. The Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by why refi? You got a defaulted private student loan and you can't sleep at night because of things riding you down. See, if you're in default on it, you're not making payments, right. And you're never going to get out. And it's a problem. And this is private. They can go after you. This is not, it's not a student loan with the feds. And so if you've got that, Yrefi can get you out. They'll buy the loan and set up a set of payments that you can pay and show you how to get it paid off and get it out of debt. It's fabulous. Go to yrefi.com ramsey and you can like sleep at night and get rid of the stupid loan. The letter yrefy.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[John Deloney]

Today's question comes from Craig in Delaware. My wife And I are looking to buy a new home. We own our current home outright and are looking to continue that debt free lifestyle. We've been paying ourselves a mortgage as a saving technique and have saved a lot of money over the years. Our friends have been telling us not to put so much down, liquid cash down for a new home, but rather take out a mortgage and invest a big chunk of that money instead. We were thinking that living mortgage free will give us freedom that we enjoy and allow us to invest with the money that we make going forward. Are we making a mistake by doing this, Craig? No, you are not making a mistake. You are correct. And it's all this has always been an argument of paying off the mortgage or not. Because if you do have a great rate, which if you buy a new home you won't have a 2 or 3% rate like a lot of people do right now. But they say, well invest that and if you make 10% in the market you'll make an 8, 7% spread and you'll make more money in the market than having a paid off home. And that's always kind of been the, the math that we, that we get cursed by People would say yeah, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

The truth is they leave out risk.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, the risk, the peace of mind. And then also if you turn around and go back and invest the mortgage payment like what he's doing, you know, and you don't have a paid off home over time like you're, you're still going to build wealth. So it's the, it's the piece that's not in the Excel sheets of which.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let'S go to the, let's go to the proof of what really happens. Okay? Number one, if your broke friends are making fun of your financial plan, you're on track. If your fat friends are making fun of your workout plan, you're on track. Okay, think about it. These are broke people throwing around financial advice. It's hilarious. The second thing is this. Ramsey did, our Ramsey research team did the largest study of millionaires ever done on the continent. We found a couple of things that are key to this. Number one, we found that 89% of America's millionaires are not millionaires because of inherited money. 9 out of 10. Okay, now once we establish that, then we have to establish the question if you're doing good, critical thought, okay, what made them millionaires? If it wasn't inherited money, what was their habits and their decisions around things like this discussion. So then we go to those millionaires and we say, okay, how many of you became a millionaire by borrowing all you could on your house so that you could invest your cash. Out of 10,167 millionaires that we asked that question, did you become a millionaire using your broke friend's plan? In other words, how many of them said they used your broke friend's plan? And how many of them said they used your plan? The number that used your broke friends plan of millionaires that became millionaires on their own that borrowed all they could on their house to invest the money. Because the spread is there. The number out of 10,167 that did that is precisely zero. None of them. So what does that tell us? That your broke friends have a theory that is unproven by data. The data of actual millionaires. People that actually build wealth, not have a theory, not drink too many beers and have a discussion about this, but instead that actually freaking do it. The data, the facts are they worked your plan and they got out of debt and stayed out of debt and they used the increased cash flow with no debt payments going to the stupid bank to increase and create wealth. Your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. Don't give it to freaking mortgage companies, Lexus Motor Credit, Toyota Motor Credit, MasterCard, student loans, and then wonder why you're broke. That's what it comes down to. So no, you are exactly right, Craig. Do what you're do your plan and just nod and wink and smile at your broke silly friends. You're probably not gonna fix them. But don't take their advice for sure under any circumstances because the data, the facts are that it's wrong. And so you know, Rachel, when we first started doing this stuff, I started doing this before you were born. I mean it feels like you were baby when I started on the microphone. And I've been asked that question for 30 years. And based I would say, well, the borrower, slave to the lender and biblically speaking, you know, and the stress and you know, the freedom and. But now I'm starting to understand as I get further into this and actually have millions of millionaires that have been created by the baby steps out there. And the ones we studied were not just ones we created, we didn't create them, but not the ones. They weren't Dave millionaires, they weren't Ramsey millionaires, but some of them were baby steps millionaires, some of them weren't. But my theory then was that what would happen is that you would have less physical stress, anxiety based disease called blood pressure and heart attacks goes away when you're dead. I mean, it largely goes away. And Deloney pulled this up the other day on some of the research that they've done in the mental health world, that you can track the debt, increase the percentage of our incomes going to debt, and track it like a hockey stick on a graph over the years. And with it, you can follow the increase in anxiety medications, the increase in suicides.

[John Deloney]

Well, technology is a big deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

The increase in other stuff, phones you can find. As soon as the iPhone hit, it spikes again.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's all through the books.

[Dave Ramsey]

The point was there's a real correlation between debt and. And your physical health.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the bottom line. And so. And no one considers that. No one talks about that. Oh, by the way, what's the number one cause of divorce in North America? Money fights and money problems. Guess who has money fights that doesn't have a mortgage? Not many. Not many. Mortgage money fights usually come from, like, we're broke and we can't afford to buy something. When you have a mortgage, you can just go get the stupid gun, you can go get the stupid purse, and you don't have to fight about it. Matter of fact, you can get one of each. You know, you don't have to fight about it. Right. And so it's. It's the, you know, relationally, physically.

[John Deloney]

Well, and I would say, yes, that. And then just the autonomy of owning your life. Like, so much of the financial space, someone else has a say in your life. I mean, and that's everything from, you know, if you have a boss, but especially if you're. If your actual income that is yours now has 15 other things that it has to go to because of debts, like the autonomy of just being able to make your own decisions.

[Dave Ramsey]

All the money comes in, all the money goes out, and only the names are changed to protect the innocent.

[John Deloney]

Well, and that's the stuff that. Yeah. Is not an Excel sheet. Right. Like that level of bandwidth emotionally as well. I mean, it's huge.

[Dave Ramsey]

It is, yeah. Deloney would call it locus of control. Bloom was on here with his new book about wealth yesterday, and he called it Agency. You lose agency, you lose the power to make your own decision. Yeah. I am trapped. I keep it. Oh, here's the other one. Your career, when you don't have that, you make more money. You know why? Because you have put up a crap. You have to live in a toxic situation to make your bills, but you look up and there's an ethics problem or you are not aligned with leadership because leadership Stupid. You can go work somewhere else. And people make. You know, when you are not trapped in a job by your debt, you can make moves in your career. And people that don't have debt make more money. Oh, and guess what? People don't have debt are more generous. And guess who, guess who ends up with more money. Generous people because they're highly attractive people. As a, you know, givers are more attractive than takers. Can we agree? Yeah. If you add value to people's lives, you, you're, you just carry yourself different. The whole thing, it's a whole picture. It's not just. I can invest the money and make a little more on the mutual fund. Oh my God. Kermit the Frog. What is wrong with you? This is the Ramsey show. Hey, when you're Gazelle Intense, you sell so much stuff, the kids think they're next. But when you've gotten rid of all, you can save money by switching your cell phone plan to Boost mobile. It's just $25 a month for unlimited talk, text and data forever. Boost is a major nationwide network that offers reliable 5G service. And here's my favorite part, transparent pricing. There's no hidden fees, no contracts and there's a 30 day money back guarantee, which means no risk. Go to boostmobile.com Ramsey to switch today. That's boost mobile.com/ramsey. We're gonna try something new that we've not done well anytime in the recent memory. We may never have done it before. It's possible. So you guys call.

[John Deloney]

I don't know if you've done it well.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's possible. I've done a lot of things.

[John Deloney]

No, we personalities have.

[Dave Ramsey]

You did it.

[John Deloney]

This is your first.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. I've not done it.

[John Deloney]

Welcome to the, welcome to the segment, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. So this is something that's happened while I wasn't working. Okay. So anyway, people call and leave voicemails and so let's play one of them.

[Rachel Cruz]

My name is Jared. I have been looking into the baby steps and I know one of the things is to sell everything quickly as you can get yourself out of debt, which I do totally understand. I have about 16,000 saved up and I also do have debt. And I was wondering, why does it feel better to have that safety net of the 16 than pay off the amount of debt? Even though I totally understand numbers wise that the debt is costing me more than the savings is keeping me in savings. Thank you. Appreciate your time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's a good question. It does feel better to have the 16,000 and have the debt because you have the illusion of security. You have the illusion that you're safe. And it's an illusion because over a 20 year period of time, you're not safe because you're broke and in debt. But you've got this sense that in the moment, if something happened, because it's true, if you had a $5,000 car engine blow up and you've only got $1,000, you're not safe. But what you also don't realize is that because you're carrying all this debt, you're not safe.

[John Deloney]

That's right. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But your emotions, because you're a saver, Jared, tell you that as a saver, I'm safer if I have savings. But if you were looking at it the other way and said, oh, the debt scares me more than the illusion of the savings, then you're going to pay it off. Until then you're going to sit there in that. Yeah, we always teach to just pay down to $1,000 and start your baby steps. Baby step one is $1,000. Anything above that that's not retirement, goes at your debts. In baby step two, listing them, smallest, largest, and attacking them in that order.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. And what's interesting is usually with especially savers. So I get this, Jared, on this end that again, you don't feel the risk of the debt, but if something were to happen, there's other people coming to knock on your door and that doesn't feel safe either. Right. So like if you're not able to pay these things, it's scarier to have your, you know, your financial peace, if you will, in other people's hands and in other people's situations. And so being free from all of that by being out of debt and then building back the emergency fund actually gives you a level of deeper security. But I don't think people think about.

[Dave Ramsey]

That as much that, you know, the difference is you haven't experienced the risk. So like with me, it's a no brainer because I have been foreclosed on. I have been sued, I have had people take money out of my account that sued me and won. Before we went broke, before we filed bankruptcy in the process of two and a half years of fighting that we were foreclosed on multiple times. We were scared several times that they were going to repo our car that night, walk out in the driveway and it's anybody's guess if it's going to be there. Then you start to go, oh, wait a minute, I don't feel safe forever for the rest of my life, I don't feel safe with that. And so that's what I mean by it's an illusion. I've got the benefit of that experience because whatever sense I had that that was okay was completely stripped away by the extreme experience we went through. Okay, play the next one.

[Rachel Cruz]

James, we had a question about Titan. Is Titan specifically supposed to be used for the church or if we are in a church that is currently declining, is it okay for our tithe to be donated to Christian organizations such as a pro life organization or something of that sort? I just wanted to kind of find out what you believe is a biblically sound answer to that question. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good question. Well, I studied the Bible through the lens of an evangelical Christian, which means someone who believes the Bible on instructional things like this. Literally. Evangelicals for the last 500 years have taught and backed it up biblically that the tithe goes to the local church, a tenth of your income. Tithe, the word in Hebrew means tenth. Doesn't mean 5%. If you want to give 5%, that's fine. The tithe is not a salvation issue. God doesn't love tithers more than non tithers. Tithers don't automatically get into heaven. That's not what this is. It's a baseline instruction from your heavenly father that teaches us to give to our faith community 10% of our income first. And the model is the Old Testament storehouse. And the Old Testament storehouse took care of the widows and the orphans and the Levites. The Levites were the pastors. And so the preachers get paid. Well, not overly paid. The minister of music, the children's minister gets paid well, but not overly paid. They never get overly paid. And, you know, the bills get paid and we keep the lights on in the house of worship with the first tenth of our income. Anything other than that tenth is an offering and it can go anywhere. So it's tithes and offerings. Then I would just say that if you're uncomfortable giving your money to the church because it's in decline, I'm uncomfortable trusting the spiritual welfare of my family more. I'm more worried about that than I am the. More admiring.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, but if it's just a sweet church that there's not a lot of givers and they're like, well, we're not going to be able to keep it open. But they're great Bible teachers. Do you know what I mean? Like, there is. I don't know, there's a part of me that I'm like, what if it is a great church and they're just.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not in decline.

[John Deloney]

But what if the. All the people who know. And we don't know where Seth lives. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I do know the church, but.

[John Deloney]

And they. So all that to say we've worked.

[Dave Ramsey]

With 50,000 churches in America. We love churches. We love pastors. That's not the question. It could be the question. Usually if there's a decline, you say your church is too much in decline to give to. I worry that it's too much in decline to trust your spiritual health of your family, too. That would bother me. That's the answer. I mean, if I can't trust them with my money, I don't need to trust them with my family.

[John Deloney]

No. So it's not that they're doing anything immoral, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wasn't talking about immoral.

[John Deloney]

But you say I can't trust them with my money.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm just saying they're not doing well.

[John Deloney]

Because maybe they don't have a lot of givers. I don't know. I always hate making that statement.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait a minute. Listen, churches. Here's the thing. Churches that do well don't have a shortage of givers.

[John Deloney]

Oh, that's a strong statement.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they don't. It's an accurate statement.

[John Deloney]

I don't know. I'm not. I'm not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, we'll argue about it. That's fine.

[John Deloney]

I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'll be wrong.

[John Deloney]

I think you. And then I'll find the stat and bring it on next time. I'm okay. This is the father.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Good luck with that. Good luck with that. Rick is in New Orleans. Hey, Rick. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, how's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I just had a question on how I should start preparing to possibly take over a business from my boss.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's going to give it to you or sell it to you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Sell it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so how is that going to happen?

[Rachel Cruz]

Currently with current discussions with them, we're looking at a possible owner. Finance.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Make it a percentage of net profit, a large percentage of net profit until he's paid out in about two or three years. Don't take a set payment for 20 years. That'll get you in trouble. That's thing one. Thing two is then if there's no profit, he doesn't get money. Until there's profit again and you don't go out of business, he can't sue you. That's my point. So thing two is then, how Long have you been working there?

[Rachel Cruz]

Five years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how many people work there?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's seasonal. So we have. Yearly, we have six people working there seasonally, we have upwards of 28.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Are you the senior guy? Yes. For how long?

[Rachel Cruz]

Actually, there's me and one other person in our maintenance department.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you need to be the senior guy immediately.

[Rachel Cruz]

The. The person. The. The person that would also be me is not interested.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that one. I said they all need to be reporting to you as step one before the transaction occurs. He needs to sit you in the president's seat while he's the CEO, and you walk in that, and he shows you every detail of every part of the business that he's running for at least a year, and then the transaction occurs. Not. He tosses your keys and goes, I hope you can figure this out. That's not a good plan.

[John Deloney]

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions, possibly. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks, so why. Why is that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, credit unions, for one thing, are nonprofit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. And. But that's what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric.

[John Deloney]

Yes, well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's fair winds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they're, They're. They've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience, and they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values. And they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, Their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. And I'm not kidding, it took. It took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like, the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I, I so, so appreciate that. So again, you Guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but fair ones, again, they make it so easy. Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch you can do with [e-mail] or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys know how much I hate banks in general and so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. That's F A I R w I n d s.org Ramsey live from the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality number one best selling author, host of the Rachel Cruze show and co host of Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Networks. My daughter is my co host. Thank you for joining us. 888-825-5225. John is in Indianapolis. Hi John, welcome to the show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel.

[John Deloney]

Hello. Hello.

[Rachel Cruz]

How are you guys today? Better than you deserve. Don't say it. Better than you deserve.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're right.

[John Deloney]

Got it. John.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. I'm so glad it's both of you today. My father approached my wife and I about moving in with him. I'm one of eight siblings and it's a home that is now, as siblings are growing up, getting more quiet than he's used to. And I have four kids of my own and he's one of these really old guys who was born in 1960 and he said that he would love for us to inherit his house at some point and be able to fill it up with our kids. And I don't know the best way of approaching that with my siblings who are many scattered throughout the country and want to make sure that we do right by everybody there with the value.

[John Deloney]

Of the home, meaning if it goes to you guys.

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. Yeah. Is he, how's his health?

[Rachel Cruz]

He is in good health. He just retired last month. He was a, he was a doctor his whole career and his imparted really good financial wisdom on us throughout our lives.

[John Deloney]

And so he's just lonely is what it sounds like. And he just wants you guys around.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's in your, in your town.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's good. Well, I mean, the obvious thing is it's. It's his house. And if he wants to deed it to you in return for you all living there to have him, keep him company or whatever we want to call this, that's his choice. Okay. The right way to do that is to make sure that this is all talked about with the brothers and sisters. The wrong way to do it is to hide it from somebody, and then they discover later that you own the house that they thought they owned an eighth of at his death. And that would make everybody angry. Right. So these. These things sprung on you later is how people get mad at the reading of the will when they discover that the house is no longer in the estate. The.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is there any merit into. If we were to sell our house and just using that equity as essentially a down payment into this house.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, I thought he was giving it to you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out. How we. How would I buy it from him? Or could I buy it from him? Or is he giving it to me? Or basically eliminate the questions from the siblings is trying to buy it from him that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, if you pay market value. If you don't pay market value, then.

[Rachel Cruz]

Which I can't pay. I can't pay market value for that home. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then the siblings are going to have an opinion. Okay, agreed.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, because unless they are, and you know, if it's. If I'm the sibling, I'm gonna go, hey, more power to you. You're taking care of dad.

[John Deloney]

Yes, that's what I was gonna say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have at it.

[John Deloney]

Do you have good relationship with them? Because they may say, John, like, thank you. Thank you, John and wife and kids and taking care of dad. Like, yeah. I mean, if Dave called us and was like, please come live with us. And Denise, Denise was like, I'll do it. Great job, Denise.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, good job. Denise will be the one. Yeah. Rachel's like, nah, not a chance.

[John Deloney]

I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I would take that one.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's. That's. Now, seriously, the.

[John Deloney]

I think you gotta.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have to clear it with the siblings, and everybody has to be okay with whatever the deal is. Okay. There's a couple of ways to structure the deal. One thing you could do is he just deeds you the house now, and you leave him with no protection and you just own the house. Another thing you could do is he deeds you the house now, and you could have give him a life estate, which means, as Long as he lives, he's allowed to live in that house. And you can't sell it until he dies unless he signs off on that and releases that. Okay, that's the second thing. The downside of him deeding it to you now, he's only 64, so, I mean, he could live 30 years. This is a long time for you to not ever sell this house or not ever move. That would be.

[Rachel Cruz]

And we're okay with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not okay with you being trapped.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Because things change. And sometimes they change tragically, sometimes they change from prosperous. Okay, let's pretend that something happened and you at work had a breakthrough and started a business, and all of a sudden you had a complete change of net worth and you wanted to build a house twice this size because you had the money. Thirty years, that could happen. That's prosperous. Okay? And you know, that's why I always laugh when someone says my forever home.

[John Deloney]

Well, or your wife's family gets ill and you guys want to be close to them and you want to move out of state or something. You know what I mean? Like, anything can happen in 30 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, God forbid something happened to you or your W before he dies, and then you gotta, you know, and then you're deciding, okay, here's a really weird one. What if you died in a car wreck and she stuck there?

[Rachel Cruz]

She said if I died in the car wreck, she'd sell our house and move in before. Before the funeral. That's her.

[Dave Ramsey]

My father and her get along so well today. Today.

[Rachel Cruz]

Today.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's where you live together. But yeah, I'm serious. I don't want you to do something that doesn't have an exit path. If you need to get off the exit ramp, you need a place to get off. I hope you don't. I hope it plays through the way you want it to play through.

[John Deloney]

But you're not against the idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

The idea is fine. Give yourself a release valve.

[John Deloney]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If the pressure zone. Give yourself a release valve and let everyone know what the release valve is and give yourself a way out of this thing. Dad's been in the nursing home with early onset for eight years. And one of your kids, all your kids move to another city, and your grandkids are all now in another city. You can't sell the house. You're stuck with it. That's not okay.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, there's just. Life is gonna happen. That's all. The people that call this show is life happened to them over and over and over and over. So, no, you just don't want to get there.

[John Deloney]

So what would you do then? You would deed it? Not deed it to John right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm trying to. What's confusing me? What I don't know. I don't know how to protect dad and protect John and give John a release valve. That's what's bothering me. I can't figure out how to do that. So you gotta think through that, though. If you can solve for that, you're okay. The last thing you gotta solve for is if they did it to you. Now your basis in this house becomes what he paid for it versus if you receive it at his death. Your basis is market value. And if you sell it, you got no capital gain or you know you got no gain. If this house is worth 600,000 bucks, you're married, filing jointly, and his basis is close to zero, and you're married, filing jointly can do a $500,000 write off. You now have capital gains on a house because it was deeded to you. Oh, and by the way, he needs to work on the Unified Estate tax Credit. So you got some estate tax planning to do. If he's going to deed you the house now, if he's not going to deed you the house now, that might be a way to do it. Maybe you don't own it. Maybe you just bank your equity and you live there.

[John Deloney]

And if you needed the exit, you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Still have no rent because you take care of him. And then if you need to leave, you can leave. That might be even cleaner. And if he dies, it comes to.

[John Deloney]

You, you're deeded out of your estate, your portion.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, or the whole thing. And the spouse, the siblings are okay with that. I might be okay with that. One that might get. That might be a way for you to get out if you get. I just don't want you to get stuck. They call here all the time, stuck. This is the Ramsey Show. Let me tell you the God's gonna cut you. It's Holy Week in Jerusalem. Crowds welcome Jesus as king. Rebellion is in the air. Jesus operates outside our jurisdiction. Rome will descend on us all. But instead, instead of taking the throne, Jesus turns the tables.

[Rachel Cruz]

My house shall be called the house of prayer. But you make it a den of thieves.

[Dave Ramsey]

The world will never be the same. Now in theaters, the Chosen Last Supper.

[Rachel Cruz]

Get your tickets now.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you own a small business and you like the Ramsey show, then you're going to love the Entree leadership podcast. Almost 200,000 listeners tune in every Monday to hear me take calls from real business leaders and give tactical advice based on my 30 years of experience leading. This is not a podcast about business theory. It's real insight from a practitioner who actually does this stuff. Find it anywhere you listen to podcasts or if you're listening on YouTube or podcast now, just click the link in the description from the Ramsey Network app Isaiah Steps. In it, you keep saying to invest $100 a month beginning at age 30 and you'll be worth $5 million at 70 years old. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Because the life expectancy of a white male is 72 and for a black male it's 68. That means most people will never leave to live to see $5 million. Help me make sense of this advice. Well, you don't really want me to make sense of this advice because you think it's ridiculous. So let's start with your belligerency. To start with the but the answer to your question is number one, you have all of your numbers wrong. So it's hard to make a cogent argument when you have your numbers all wrong. We have never said $100 a month from 30 to 70 is $5 million. It's not. It's 1,176,000. And that would be true of 20 to 60 or 25 to 65, any 40 year period of time you wanted to pick. And so you could align that with, okay, start when you get out of high school saving $100 a month at 18 and at 58 you would have 1 million, not 5 million. I never said that. 1,176,000. Also, the average life expectancy of a white male is not 72 years old. I don't know where you're getting your data, but the National Vital Statistics System at the national center for Health sciences says in 2023 the average male death age is 75.8 years, 76 years period. Average female is 81 years old when they die. Now that includes infant mortality and teenage death, which we can all agree that most teenagers are not saving and most infants are not saving. So once you make it to age 65, my age and you're healthy, well, not even healthy. Once you make it to age 65, on average, you will live another 18 years. So the average 65 year old has a death all males, 76 years. Okay, add 18 to that, it's going to be 86, 92 years old. So I'm sitting here at 64. The average is that I make it to 92 once you make it to 65. Okay, so all your numbers are wrong to start with, Isaiah. But at the core of your belligerency and claiming our process is ridiculous is the idea that somehow you're supposed to get rich in 10 minutes or that somehow you're entitled to something. Or that I'm angry because I don't feel like it's possible for me. And you even throw the race card in there. Cause color of skin hasn't got anything to do with your ability to build wealth. Skin pigmentation doesn't cause wealth building one way or another. It doesn't. And so you know, you just gotta, you gotta throw that in there though to go ahead and try to create some kind of social justice argument. That's bullcrap here. So the truth is that anyone who saves $100, but by the way, almost no one saves like I would say really close to zero, people save $100 for 40 years a month. Like I haven't saved $100. I've saved a lot more than that. Rachel hasn't saved $100. She wants to save a lot more than that.

[John Deloney]

Right. So just the idea of the investment calculation, saying it's an example, it's an.

[Dave Ramsey]

Example saying if you save money, you can build wealth, you'll build wealth. That's what the example says. But you're like, oh well, no one can get there cause they're all going to be dead. It's like oh geez son, roll up your sleeves, live on less than you make. Get out of debt, deny yourself a little bit of pleasure because you're acting like a four year old here. And stay out a happy hour and go put some money in the bank. Quit smoking so much pot. Seriously. And so Isaiah, this is ridiculous. Isaiah. No, I mean the belligerence on this is victim based. It's victim based. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. It is not the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. What's ridiculous is your argument cuz you don't know anything about the number that you presented. They were all wrong. That's what's ridiculous. So what's ridiculous is you've used some twisted version and inaccurate numbers to justify your victim existence. That's ridiculous. So you're not a victim of anything but your bad thinking. That's your only victimization. So the truth is, is that the, you know, 89% of America's millionaires are first generation rich. Go get you some boy, it's your turn. Roll up your sleeve. Quit your whining. Be a victor, not a victim. And quit trying to figure out some way that if the whole thing stacked against me, the little man can't get ahead. I grew up with people my whole life saying, the little man can't get ahead. You're always gonna have a car payment. We're stuck. These numbers only work for people that aren't like us. People that are different than me. People that are my race, my color, my neighborhood, my educational background, my history of my family. People like me can't. Oh, shut up. Was Eeyore your spirit animal? Come on, man, that's ridiculous. I'm the little man. I started with nothing and I was a millionaire twice. I'm so stupid, I had to do it twice. I got a PhD in dumb and I had to do it twice. So you. This just this victimized and it's all. It's just seeping in these words right here. It's just running off this page. And I'm not going to talk. It will. It is not. It's hopelessness that you're spreading. You are a hope stealer when you tell people that they can't make it. And that pisses me off because I spend my life giving people hope. And you can do this in America right now, it is the best place, the best economy, the best situation in human history for the little man to get ahead. If at any time you wanted to drop into any society in human history and you wanted to start from nothing and build wealth, this is the best place ever. Any time. It's better than 30 years ago. It's better than 60 years ago. It's better than the Roman Empire. It's better than anywhere you want to drop your little butt and think you can't get ahead. Little man can't get ahead. I promise you, freaking Karl Marx isn't going to help the little man get ahead. He helps the big man get ahead. That's who gets him ahead. And so your broke college professor that's teaching you communist technique has got to stop it. This is crazy, y'all. So if you want to win, you can go win. We'll help you. We'll show you how. But we are not going to participate in. This is most ridiculous. It means people will never see their money. They're going to die before they get their money. Oh, that's just dumb. It's just ignorant. So hope I wasn't unclear.

[John Deloney]

Nope.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's why I wrote me. That's why we did. I was not going to do Another book. Well, that's why I did baby steps. Millionaire.

[John Deloney]

What's the stat of people that come legally into America? They end up winning four times more likely. Four times more likely. If they come and they're like, you know, if you come here from another.

[Dave Ramsey]

Country, under the law, legally, not illegally, you are four times more likely to become a millionaire than someone born here. Than someone born here who believes crap like this. Like the dick stacked against the little man. You just can't. You just can't do it. You're gonna die. You die before you get your money. Oh, brother. So, no, do the stuff, man. Do the stuff. Live on less than you make. Get out of debt, get your butt on a budget and act like a grown up and stop your whining and you can go do almost anything in this country. It's gonna be hard, but it's easier than being broken. Mediocre. At the end of the story, you get to win this way. The other way, at the end of the story, you just die broke and wondering what you. I don't wanna work in McDonald's at retirement unless it's the one I own in St. Thomas. You know, seriously, you can do this stuff and you don't have to be. I'm not extraordinary. I'm far from extraordinary, but I've had extraordinary results. Following God's ways of handling money, having hope in my life, having a sense of abundance instead of a sense of scarcity and going and apply. If you plant corn, the most magical thing happens. Corn grows. And if you plant more corn, more corn grows. So if you plant 100 bucks, you'll get this. If you plant a thousand bucks, you'll get 10 times as much. And, and you know, most of you are making so much money, 100 bucks you waste driving past some fast food restaurant or Starbucks. You just drive past, they take 100 bucks from you, and you even got your food yet. This is. Man, this is so doable, y'all. It's so doable. And I. I'm not going. You. You can get pissed at me. If you want to start another Reddit page on Dave Ramsey, have at it. I don't give a crap. Just. Just stack it up there. You know what? Cause you're wrong. The proof is in. The social proof is out. 10 million millions and millions and millions of people are doing this stuff. And it's not. So if you're not doing it, you're just wrong. It's not hard. It's not any harder than that. You're just wrong. This is the Ramsey Show.

[John Deloney]

Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer. And it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over 11 billion billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of healthcare costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and [e-mail] budget. That's chministries.org budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys, good news. Presale is on now for my new book, build a business you love. If you're a business owner, you know running a business is hard. That's why I wrote this book, to share what we learned over the last 30 years so business owners can grow your business faster with fewer mistakes. Pre order your copy today and you'll get access to over $350 in bonus items only at ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com store pre order today. Robert's in Denver. Hi, Robert. How are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm good. How are you, Dave and Rachel?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. How can we help today?

[Rachel Cruz]

Thanks for taking my call. I found you guys in 2020, and after paying off all my debt, I'm now on baby step six. I've been dating the same woman for four and a half years. She's absolutely amazing. I love her to death. The one thing we struggle with is money. And we pretty much see it kind of opposite. We're getting to a point in our relationship where, you know, we're heavily discussing marriage and what all that looks like. And we're kind of in a spot where, you know, I try to help her as much as possible and as much as she wants me to, I guess, to set up budgets and stuff like that. And it just never works out. You know, she always goes way over budget or whatever. And if we were to get married like, she, you know, she would Sell her house and move in with me. And the profits from that would pay off all of her debts. She has about 65,000 in debts, so it's not really like a concern from that aspect. It's more just. I guess I'm scared to move forward with someone that I've never seen can stay within a budget, you know, and I'm worried that it's the number one reason people get a divorce. I'm worried about becoming a statistic because we fight about money all the time.

[John Deloney]

Can she not. Can I ask this, Robert? Is she not being able to stay into the in. Is she not able to stay on budget because the budget's not realistic for what she set up? Or is it that she truly spends more than she makes and she's just says that's, that's just how it is.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, she just spends more than she makes. I mean, she, she, she brings in more money than I do, honestly.

[John Deloney]

What does she spend it on and what's she doing? Shop, Vacations. Like, what's.

[Rachel Cruz]

Like. Yeah, yeah. So like in, in her. Every dollar, you know, she's got a food category that's, that's supposed to be $600. Last month she spent 1100. And then like her shopping, you know, it's supposed to be, I think, 400. And that includes even like unnecessary fun purchases that, you know, everyone has to have. But instead she spent like 900. You know, she wants to, she's a mom of two. She wants to get a mommy makeover. And so like, in her head, she's justifying, well, if I can pay off these two debts, that's payments equal what the mommy makeover payments will make, then I can do it. But she's never once made like that extra debt payment to even pay those debts down. She just, she's more of like a, you know, you gotta spend the money that you make to have fun kind of thing than I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's interesting to me that you started doing this stuff in 2020 and you've been dating her four and a half years. So you started, you met her about the same time. So she's watched you adopt all of these things.

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

The more, the more you got engaged, the more you got engaged with the stuff that we teach. The. She's watched it. She's. She's had a first, a front row seat for the whole thing.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I was, I was debt free by the time I met her. I started January 1st as a New Year's resolution, and I met her December 4th. So within that year I was out of debt, so she never really saw me aggressively attack debt. But I still live the lifestyle. Like, I still budget every month. I still, you know, so she's seen that lifestyle and where it's gotten me, and she just. She just. She doesn't have, like, the mental mind. Like, I see things in numbers and statistics. I'm a spreadsheet nerd. She's the complete opposite.

[Dave Ramsey]

But, yeah, I don't. I'm not asking her to be a nerd. I am asking her to quit being immature and just buying stuff she can't afford. And I just deserve it. I just want to get it, and so I'm just going to get it. I mean, she doesn't tell herself no, ever. The category breaches you talked about, the purchase breaches you talked about, those are all. I just look at it and I'm going to do it anyway. There's a sense of entitlement or immaturity or something there that's bothering me in this. I can't tell what it is. Exactly. So what would we do in this situation? You guys have got to resolve this before you go forward. Not necessarily. She has to become the nerd that you are or she has to stay on a budget, but whatever. The core issue is that she's struggling with here. Immaturity, entitlement. Just because you can't just. She's not acting like an adult in the sense that you can't just spend 900 bucks when you say, I'm gonna spend 400.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, that's where I was trying to figure out with.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's weird.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. Is she not budgeting correctly? Because there are some people that are like, oh, I'm gonna make.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, then change the. But then change the budget.

[John Deloney]

That's what I'm saying. But this sounds like it's above that. It's like that she could live within the numbers that she sets. Correct. Like she. That. Or that she has to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mathematically, she makes enough money to pay to do it. Right. She just chooses not to have any boundaries for herself.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what I'm hearing. So what would I do if I were in your shoes? I would say, look, we have to resolve this and get aligned on it to go forward, because it's not going to. We're going to have. You're going to have a long life because you're going to treat. You're going to think I'm just picking on you all the time, and I don't want to be the bad guy in this all the time. Time.

[John Deloney]

And it's a value.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna sign up for the bad guy.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. And it's not. Again, we've said it twice in the call, but I think this is important for couples to hear. You're not trying to form her into you, right? Because I'm the free spirit. As you're speaking. I'm like, oh, my gosh, that would so be me if I wasn't doing the Ramsey plan. I am. I'm just a spender. Emotions. I'm like, yep, we're gonna have fun. We're gonna enjoy. But having to learn a value system of boundaries, a value system of living below your means, a value system that's stuff is not going to make me happy. There's a contentment issue there as well. Like, all of these things are values where I still, month to month, spend more than Winston, my husband, because I am more of a spender than he is. But it's in the budget. So from.

[Dave Ramsey]

Again, that's easy because Winston doesn't spend any money.

[John Deloney]

But it's like, the idea is, again, it's the values that we agree upon, not the personality trait necessarily, but if we can't have boundaries and limits to our money and we keep going over and over and over and over and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Over, that's a problem.

[John Deloney]

Then there's an issue there, you know, and even with debt, I would say debt's a value system that if you are. So if you are uncomfortable with living with debt, that it gives you stress the, like, the risk of it. It's not worth it. It is. It is. I want the autonomy, and she's completely okay with it. And it's totally fine to live by my means, and I'll live on credit cards and just try to pay, you know, the minimum balance every month or the minimum payment. Then again, that's a. There's a value system there that will be really excruciating to walk along life with. And. And this is your partner, Right. Like, when you go. When you get into a marriage, like, this is the person that you're gonna. You're gonna make all these decisions with. And that should be fun, and it should be enjoyable. This is someone that you don't want to constantly be picking apart and adding stress right to the relationship. And that's what these big issues. Money is one of them. But you could throw in. In laws, you could throw in parenting. I mean, right. There's all these other issues, but with money specifically.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Like, you Would tell the kids no, and she won't. You know that that's gonna translate.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That ruffles feathers how that's gonna translate. So here's what I would do. I would schedule a pre marriage counseling session, and I would sit down with a counselor and tell the counselor on the phone before you meet with them with her present, that the pre marriage counseling session will have failed. If you can't help us get aligned on these subjects, your job as a premium premarriage counseling is you have to give the counselor instructions. Okay. I am not moving forward in this marriage unless we can get aligned on these things. And so your job is to guide us through that. If you think your job is to make me okay with her being off the rails one way and me being off the rails the other way, I'm not going to be okay with that. That you failed as a counselor. Because sometimes counselors will do that. You get. It's all okay because they don't think. They don't see it the way that we're. So you need to give. The counselor.

[John Deloney]

Counselor will dig in and understand the good one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

That's the root of it. Because so much of. Of who we are in our existence, the good, the bad, the ugly comes out on how we handle money. And there's. There's things in there. Right. And I would say for extreme family of origin. Yeah. And extreme savers. Right. There's a level of hoarding and control issues that come from people that are. And people call this show. And they're so anal, and you're just like, oh, my God, chill, you're okay. But they're. They're so wound up on that side, and that's unhealthy. But then being on the other far side where she is, that's unhealthy. And so. So tell that place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Give the counselor some instructions. And the instructions are you are to help us get aligned. If you can't help us get aligned, then we're either going to call it or you failed in your counseling. You. We are not leaving your office with you saying, oh, it's okay. That's not an okay thing for the counselor to think, because sometimes pre marriage counseling is a bit of a rubber stamp. And you don't want. That's what I want you to. I want them digging in on this. I want you to dig onto this and y'all find out what's. What's driving these things. And that way you don't turn Ramsey into a cuss word in your new Household. This is the Ramsey Show. Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired? You can take control of your money and your relationships and it starts with just one night. Join me and Dr. John DeLoney live in a city near you on the Money and Relationships tour. We're covering the real life stuff that matters so you can break the cycles that have left you stuck. It's coming up fast, so get your tickets for Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth or Kansas City at ramseysolutions.com tour today. If you're a business owner, you know running a small business is hard. If you've ever become self employed like I have, you figure out pretty quickly that your boss is tough, your boss as a slave driver. And yeah, self employed is tough. It's hard. Running your own deal is hard. We've got a new book called Build a Business yous Love where we unpack the Entree leadership system. It doesn't make running a business easy, but it makes it easier because it's a clear path to walk through the five stages of business. It's like the baby steps for small business. Not money, but how to grow your business. How to deal with team members differently as you go through the five stages. How to deal with profit differently as you go through the five stages. On if you pre order right now for 29.99, you can get over $350 in bonus items. Instant access to the Entree Leadership Hiring playbook, the ebook and the enhanced audiobook. Pre order today@ramsey solutions.com store or if you're on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Seth is in Virginia Beach. Hi, Seth. How are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, Dave And Rachel. How are y'all?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Rachel Cruz]

All right, so I'm 27 years old and I'm married with three kids. And me and my wife have been on baby steps 4, 5, and 6 for the past few years. And I'm currently in the military and we live in military housing. So we're renting. We're trying to figure out the best way to kind of save for a down payment on a house. Since we move every three years, we're not trying to jump on buying a house right away, but if the opportunity presents itself, then we would like to maybe be in a place where we could do so. So over the past few years, we've saved about $25,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, so also while saving for retirement and kids college.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which branch are you in? The Navy.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm in the Marine Corps.

[Dave Ramsey]

Marine Corps. Thank you for your service. All right, Very cool.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And your question was what?

[Rachel Cruz]

So, so we're trying to figure out the best approach to saving up for a down payment on a house. My wife's taking some time off work to stay home with the kids with the birth of our kids. But she's a nurse and she's going to be starting a job here in the fall as a school nurse. And we were thinking like potentially going back to baby step 3B and just pausing retirement in kids college to just back up cash for a year. We were saying if that would be maybe be the right move with, you know, still trying to invest steadily for retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fun. The first thing popped into my head was I'm under the impression a school nurse does not make near what a nurse makes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct. So she used to work like in a hospital on the floor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you take a job that pays less when you're trying to hit a financial goal?

[Rachel Cruz]

So because of with our three kids, the schedule is a lot easier with three kids instead of working 12 hour shift. Yes. And, and so like I said, we're not trying to jump on like buying a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How old are your children?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, there are five, two and then about to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

One school nurse doesn't have anything to do with a two or one year old.

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct. They would have to be in daycare, but our oldest is in kindergarten.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so the schedule things bogus. It's not true.

[John Deloney]

She'd have summers. I mean, it's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean you can take summers off whenever you want. I mean you can go work three twelves and be done for the week and make three times more than she's going to make while the other two kids sit in daycare. So that it's not logical anyway. I think that's a bad choice. Anyway, back to your question. You're not in a hurry so you can do whatever you want to do and you've done a great job so far with your money. But I, you know, I'm a huge fan of nurses because it gives you the potential to earn a lot of money and work a very, very flexible schedule and do a lot of different kinds of things. And I think you're not getting good use of that opportunity with what we're talking about. But. Okay, back to it. Now. The.

[John Deloney]

I wouldn't Pause Baby Step 5 Investing. You can pause the kids college though. If you guys were putting in a certain amount of money every single year.

[Dave Ramsey]

You had a one year old, two Year old.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. If you want to pause that to save up some extra.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, or just drop it down, drop it down to 50 bucks or something. I wouldn't stop it, but I'd drop it way down. And you use that. I really wouldn't. Because you're not on a tight schedule to buy. You don't have an urgency to buy. And so I don't want to build up a down payment over here in a high yield savings account while I'm missing out on good mutual fund returns over in my retirement accounts. No, I'm going to leave that at 15. Now if you want to turn up the urgency and you say, okay, in 24 months we're going to buy a house. If you want to shut it down for that, that's okay. But just in general, just I'm going to just want to build a slush fund so someday I can buy a house. No, I would not do that. And then I want to add one more thing before I let you go. Like you said, you guys move every three years and it's going to be very unusual market that you can buy a house and sell it quickly and make money on it in three years. Okay, so here's how. I mean, I'll teach you how to do it. I talk to military guys and gals all the time. I love what you guys do and thank you for protecting our country. The thing you do when you get ready at your next stop and you think, okay, we got the money, let's buy a house. What you want to do is you want to look at two different statistics with the local real estate agent. Just go get one of your Ramsey trusted real estate pros off the website at the ELP site. Okay. On our website and ask them two things. Number one, in the area I'm looking in within a five mile radius of the houses I'm looking in in that area, what is the average dom days on the market. And if it's an average of 27 days, well, you've got a hot market and you'll be able to sell the house. If it's an average of 270 days, that's nine months. You're be stuck with this thing when you move next time and it's going to end up a rental property in another city. Bad idea. Okay, so days on the market, the second thing you want to look for is average appreciation rates in that five mile mile radius for the last five years, four years, what have the houses gone up in this area? If they've gone up 2% a year. In three years, that's 6%. You're going to lose money when you sell this house with commissions and closing costs, okay? But if they go up 10% a year, that's going up 30%. You're going to make money. I will tell you that. You will find these two numbers will only appear together and give you the right answer. In other words, if you see high appreciation rates, you're probably going to see short days on the market. And if you see long days on the market, you're probably going to see low appreciation rates. So a low appreciate. And so, so what happens is if the town is a military only town, and the military is the economy, you've got a bazillion houses on the market all the time because the people are moving in and out all the time. There's always a glut in the market. You don't see a lot of appreciation. It's very hard to sell. You're going to get burned. But if you're in a metro area like you are right now, Virginia beach is a vibrant economy, separate and apart from the military. Heavily influenced by the military, but separate and apart from the military. It's got its own economy. So you could, that could be one of the markets right there that you could make money on. San Diego would be a market you could make money on and get in and out if you're military. But if you're in the middle of whatever cornfield and it's all military, you're, you're, you're gonna get, you're gonna get stuck with the house, dude. So be careful with that.

[John Deloney]

Renting a lot for family.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just rent. Just rent. If you're in a market, if you're going into the cornfield market or where if it's not a vibrant market for whatever reason and you're gonna get stuck, you're much better off financially to rent for that three year period of time and your stress levels way down. Because if you're buying and you gotta move in, fix up and you're selling, you gotta move out, fix up and it's, it's a, you know, it's a lot more stress to do to be an owner than it is to be a renter on the short term basis. So that's what we're looking for. So. Good question, man. Thank you. And again, thank you for serving your country. Last thing I'll throw out, because I got just a second is don't use the VA loan. The VA loans suck. The Veterans Administration was formed to be a blessing to veterans and to active duty, and they may be in some areas, but in the real estate world, they're not. VA loan is more expensive than an FHA loan. The interest rates are higher and the fees are higher. But veterans do it and active duty people do it. Because I can get nothing down. It's one of my benefits. Well, nothing down is not actually a benefit. It's causing you to buy something you can't afford. And so don't do the va. Don't do it. Do it. You know, do a, do a traditional conventional Fannie Mae mortgage. Don't do an FHA either. It's the cheapest. Fannie Mae is the cheapest. A standard conventional mortgage is much cheaper than either one of the two government programs. Well, there's a shock. And so, you know, don't, don't fall for that either, those of you that are out there military. So we've done a bazillion hours of work with the military folks and love them and try to help them any way we can. So thank you guys.