Don’t Go Broke Trying to Keep the Peace

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show — "Don’t Go Broke Trying to Keep the Peace"

Release Date: July 4, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, hosted by Rachel Cruze alongside best-selling author Jade Warshaw and financial expert George Camel, listeners navigate the intricate balance between maintaining peace in relationships and making sound financial decisions. The episode delves into real-life scenarios where financial stress threatens personal relationships, offering actionable advice to foster both financial health and harmonious relationships.

Caller Segments and Discussions

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1. Chris from Raleigh, North Carolina: Buying a Home Before Marriage

Timestamp: [00:51]

Issue: Chris seeks advice on whether his daughter and her fiancé should purchase a house together before getting married. Despite both being employed and saving, they currently live at home and are concerned about having a stable place to live post-marriage.

Advice:

• George Camel ([01:22]): Emphasizes the lack of legal protections when co-owning property pre-marriage. Advises keeping finances separate until marriage to avoid complications if the relationship doesn’t work out.

  “There’s no legal protections... if it doesn't work out, there's not really a process in place to decide who gets what.” ([01:22])

• Rachel Cruze ([02:23]): Highlights the importance of not mixing finances prematurely, especially for young couples. Suggests renting to maintain financial freedom and avoid the stresses of homeownership during the early stages of their relationship.

  “It's very unwise to put your name together when you are not married on an asset.” ([02:23])

Conclusion: Waiting until after marriage to purchase a home offers legal protections and financial stability, allowing the couple to enjoy their early years without the added stress of property management.

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2. John from Pensacola, Florida: Mortgage Refinancing and Fraud Concerns

Timestamp: [11:45]

Issue: John owns a home with a 7.49% interest rate and is approached by callers offering refinancing opportunities with lower rates and no money down. He is skeptical about potential fraud involved in these offers.

Advice:

• George Camel ([13:00]): Acknowledges the potential downturn in interest rates and advises thorough due diligence before refinancing to avoid scams.

  “Refinancing your house at a lower interest rate is not a scam unless you do your due diligence...” ([13:57])

• Rachel Cruze ([14:26]): Recommends using reputable brokers like Churchill Mortgage to ensure safe refinancing processes. Encourages patience and waiting for the right opportunity without rushing into potentially fraudulent schemes.

  “Maybe you wait another six months to see... use a reputable broker.” ([14:26])

Conclusion: Refinancing can be beneficial if approached cautiously with trusted professionals, ensuring financial savings without falling victim to fraud.

---

3. Mike from Dayton, Ohio: Recovering from Divorce and Building Retirement Savings

Timestamp: [16:08]

Issue: Mike, 42, grapples with the aftermath of a divorce that resulted in the loss of half his 401(k). He is starting over with savings of $21,000 in his 401(k) and is concerned about whether it's too late to build a substantial retirement fund.

Advice:

• George Camel ([16:41]): Reassures Mike that it’s not too late to recover and emphasizes the importance of paying off debt first to free up income for retirement savings.

  “Not by a long shot.” ([16:42])

• Rachel Cruze ([17:17]): Suggests pausing retirement contributions temporarily to focus on debt elimination, which will enable Mike to redirect the freed funds towards retirement once debts are cleared.

  “Pause that 6% while you're getting out of debt...” ([16:43])

Conclusion: By prioritizing debt repayment, Mike can subsequently enhance his retirement contributions, positioning himself for a secure financial future despite past setbacks.

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4. Sarah from Atlanta: Financial Infidelity and Marital Trust

Timestamp: [22:28]

Issue: Sarah shares a distressing story about discovering her husband has been embezzling funds, leading to significant financial and emotional turmoil. They have two young children and are struggling to decide whether to separate financially or seek reconciliation.

Advice:

• Rachel Cruze ([28:16]): Advises Sarah to protect her finances immediately by separating accounts and seeking legal counsel to safeguard her assets and those of her children.

  “Cash or cut it out financially.” ([28:16])

• George Camel ([29:07]): Emphasizes the severity of financial infidelity, comparing it to betrayal in other forms. Recommends counseling and setting strict financial boundaries to rebuild trust.

  “Finances... it’s a security issue... treat it like a severe breach.” ([29:07])

Conclusion: Financial transparency and legal protections are crucial in addressing financial infidelity, enabling Sarah to regain control and decide the future of her marriage with informed boundaries.

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5. Brenda from Jackson, Mississippi: Charging for Services to Friends in Need

Timestamp: [34:36]

Issue: Brenda and her husband operate a handyman side gig and are conflicted about charging a missionary friend a significantly reduced rate to repair extensive bathroom damage.

Advice:

• Rachel Cruze ([36:44]): Encourages balancing generosity with financial sustainability. Advises setting clear boundaries and possibly negotiating a middle-ground rate to avoid feeling exploited while still helping someone in need.

  “If you feel like you're being taken advantage of, that's one thing...” ([36:44])

• George Camel ([38:08]): Suggests praying and deliberating as a couple to reach a mutual decision that honors their financial goals without compromising their principles.

  “Pray and meet in the middle.” ([38:08])

Conclusion: Generous acts should not undermine financial stability. By negotiating fair rates and setting boundaries, Brenda and her husband can assist their friend without jeopardizing their financial health.

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6. Vanessa from Seattle: Recovering from Divorce, Bankruptcy, and Personal Loss

Timestamp: [77:59]

Issue: Vanessa, 54, faces homelessness after her home’s owners decided to sell. She has recently filed for bankruptcy, divorced, and tragically lost her daughter. With an inheritance of $30,000, she seeks advice on managing her debt and rebuilding her finances amidst profound personal loss.

Advice:

• Rachel Cruze ([81:02]): Recommends prioritizing debt repayment and securing stable income before making additional financial commitments. Emphasizes the importance of emotional healing alongside financial recovery.

  “Find a job tomorrow, any job.” ([81:38])

• George Camel ([85:02]): Advises selling the depreciated vehicle to eliminate high-interest debts and free up monthly cash flow, facilitating the establishment of an emergency fund and financial stability.

  “Sell it and buy something cheaper in cash.” ([85:56])

Conclusion: Vanessa should focus on debt elimination and income stabilization before addressing long-term financial goals, ensuring she can rebuild her life with a solid financial foundation.

---

7. Josh from Sacramento, California: Career Burnout vs. Financial Security

Timestamp: [45:17]

Issue: Josh, seeking to leave a toxic work environment in California, worries about his wife’s significant income loss if they relocate. He debates whether the immediate relief from leaving his job outweighs the long-term financial impact.

Advice:

• Rachel Cruze ([51:10]): Encourages Josh to prioritize emotional well-being and marital harmony over financial concerns, advocating for a move that fosters happiness even if it involves financial adjustments.

  “Life is too short... choose peace over paycheck.” ([51:10])

• George Camel ([50:03]): Stresses the importance of mutual agreement in marital decisions, ensuring both partners are satisfied with the relocation to maintain a healthy relationship.

  “Pick a place where both of you are up for that adventure.” ([50:30])

Conclusion: Pursuing personal happiness and a healthier work environment can lead to overall well-being, even if it requires financial compromises, provided both partners agree and support each other.

---

8. Justin from California: Prioritizing Financial Goals and Personal Requests

Timestamp: [55:42]

Issue: Justin is saving for a $650,000 home in California with a significant down payment but is torn between purchasing a $3,500 diamond ring for his wife and allocating those funds toward closing costs.

Advice:

• George Camel ([57:49]): Recommends open communication to align financial priorities, assessing the impact of the ring purchase on their home-buying timeline and budgeting accordingly.

  “Have the conversation about what's more important.” ([57:49])

• Rachel Cruze ([58:22]): Suggests evaluating the financial trade-offs and setting clear timelines to ensure that discretionary spending does not derail primary financial goals.

  “Understand what setting that $3,500 back would mean.” ([58:22])

Conclusion: Balancing personal gestures with financial objectives requires transparent communication and strategic budgeting to uphold both relational and financial aspirations.

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9. Haley from Omaha: Managing Inherited Life Insurance Policies

Timestamp: [58:49]

Issue: Haley, 21, inherits universal life insurance policies from her parents and is contemplating whether to continue payments or cash them out and reimburse her parents.

Advice:

• Rachel Cruze ([59:25]): Advises against maintaining universal life policies due to their high costs and poor investment returns, recommending cancellation and focusing on separate life insurance needs aligned with her stage in life.

  “Cancel it, say goodbye to the $700, and live your life.” ([61:24])

• George Camel ([61:24]): Highlights the inefficiency of combining insurance and investment, advocating for term life insurance when necessary and promoting financial separation for optimal management.

  “Life insurance is for people who are dependent on your income.” ([62:40])

Conclusion: By discontinuing unnecessary universal life policies, Haley can redirect funds toward more effective financial strategies, ensuring better returns and financial autonomy.

---

10. Kashim from Portland, Oregon: Real Estate Investments vs. Financial Peace

Timestamp: [97:30]

Issue: Kashim and his brother run an assisted living business with six real estate properties, feeling financially stretched despite substantial income from their ventures. They’re questioning whether to continue investing in real estate or prioritize debt repayment.

Advice:

• Rachel Cruze ([99:53]): Recommends pausing additional real estate investments to focus on reducing debt and improving cash flow, ensuring financial stability before expanding further.

  “Snowball this and pay them off quickly.” ([100:02])

• George Camel ([101:05]): Encourages selling select properties to eliminate high-interest debts, enhancing cash flow and reducing financial stress, thus enabling more strategic future investments.

  “Sell a couple of them and rearrange.” ([101:05])

Conclusion: Prioritizing debt elimination can alleviate financial strain, allowing Kashim and his brother to maintain profitable investments without the burden of excessive leverage.

---

11. Jake from Houston: Managing Health Concerns and Life Insurance

Timestamp: [108:08]

Issue: Jake, 39, faced with a chronic condition and nearing retirement eligibility, lacks life insurance coverage for his family. He contemplates setting aside funds due to his health prognosis.

Advice:

• Rachel Cruze ([112:08]): Emphasizes the importance of life insurance for dependents, recommending term life insurance for affordability and sufficient coverage to protect his family's financial future.

  “Term life is going to be your best friend.” ([112:08])

• George Camel ([113:13]): Suggests leveraging his substantial savings and income to secure life insurance, ensuring his family's financial security despite his health challenges.

  “You’ve set your family up in a really, really great way.” ([113:13])

Conclusion: Securing term life insurance provides Jake's family with essential financial protection, mitigating the impact of his health issues and ensuring their well-being.

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Key Takeaways and Insights

• Financial Transparency: Maintaining separate finances until a committed marital relationship solidifies can prevent potential disputes and financial losses.

• Debt Prioritization: Eliminating high-interest debts before expanding investments fosters financial stability and peace of mind.

• Generosity with Boundaries: Offering help to those in need is commendable, but setting clear financial boundaries ensures personal financial health isn't compromised.

• Insurance as Protection: Proper life insurance coverage is crucial for safeguarding family finances, especially in unforeseen circumstances.

• Emotional Well-being: Personal happiness and mental health should take precedence over financial gains when making significant life decisions.

Conclusion

"Don’t Go Broke Trying to Keep the Peace" underscores the delicate interplay between financial decisions and relational harmony. By prioritizing debt elimination, maintaining financial transparency, and securing adequate insurance, individuals can navigate financial challenges without straining their personal relationships. The Ramsey Show provides listeners with compassionate, practical advice to achieve both financial health and personal well-being.

Notable Quotes

• George Camel: “There’s no legal protections... if it doesn't work out, there's not really a process in place to decide who gets what.” ([01:22])

• Rachel Cruze: “It's very unwise to put your name together when you are not married on an asset.” ([02:23])

• Rachel Cruze: “Maybe you wait another six months to see... use a reputable broker.” ([14:26])

• Rachel Cruze: “Pause that 6% while you're getting out of debt...” ([16:43])

• Rachel Cruze: “Life is too short... choose peace over paycheck.” ([51:10])

• Rachel Cruze: “Cancel it, say goodbye to the $700, and live your life.” ([61:24])

• Rachel Cruze: “Term life is going to be your best friend.” ([112:08])

---

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting the real-life financial dilemmas faced by callers and the expert guidance provided to navigate these challenges effectively.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Rachel Cruze]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and best selling author Jade Warshaw. And we are here to answer your questions about life, money, career, anything and everything. So you give us a call at 888, 825-5225. Up first this hour, we have Chris in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Chris, welcome to the show.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank you. Thank you for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

So I'm asking this question for my daughter and her fiance and I wanted you guys to give your best explanation of why you should not buy a house together. You are married.

[George Camel]

Oh, I like that. So, I mean, the first thing is there's no legal protections. I mean, you're kind of just his word against her word and you're co mingling money together. And so at the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, there's not really a process in place to decide who gets what. That would be my first thought.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so with you saying that, of course nobody goes into a marriage thinking that it's not going to work out. And these two are no different, but they both still live at home, they both have jobs. She's in college and she's finishing up a teaching degree which is going to take her three years to do that. And they're scheduled to get married in April of 26. They're trying to understand how you, you wait until you're married to buy a house because they say, well, where are we going to live at? Well, that's, that's a good question. And I tell you, you got to look at Rennie. And if they decide to wait, I mean, I want you to explain to them why that's a good thing, I guess is what I'm saying.

[George Camel]

To wait to get married or to wait to not buy the house together?

[Jade Warshaw]

Wait to not buy the house together. I think they understand the finance part of it, but I think they're like, if we don't have it when we get married, we don't have nowhere to go. So that's what I'm, I'm kind of getting at wanting them to understand and hear it from somebody else.

[George Camel]

Well, there's two conversations. I think there's the value side of it and then there's the money side of it. So on the money side, yeah, we don't recommend combining money until you're married. So up until this point, they should be viewing her money as her money. His money is his money. So her money is used to buy her rent, her food, pay her bills, that sort of thing, and vice versa. For him, the moment that they start combining it, it just becomes kind of a web together where, which, when you're married, it's a good web, but when you're not married, it's a bad web. Because if something happens and they end up not staying together, then that's a lot that has the ability to be lost. Right. Would you agree?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, I would agree 100%.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

I just wanted.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, I'm sorry. Yeah, no, it's fine. And when you own something with someone, and this is even a car, Chris, we would say this about a car. When both of your names are on the ownership of something to detangle, that is very difficult to do. And when you have an asset like a house, it's. It's very difficult. And then I would say to them as well, financially speaking, they're just going to be out of school. They don't, they can't afford a house anyways. Like, the upkeep of home ownership already is going to add stress to their life and they don't need that. Right. Like that, that's down the road. And we want that to be part of their plan long term. But it almost kind of steals a level of joy and freedom, like when you can just rent and everything's taken care of for you, like, enjoy your early 20s. Don't, you know, if you're in a place financially that, you know, you're settling down and you can buy a home and can afford it, that's one thing. But when you're first starting out, like, yeah, understand that, you know, it's very, very expensive. So, so on that. And Chris, it's very unwise, very unwise to put your name together when you are not married on an asset. Because just like Jay just said, untangling that, it's a mess. It's an absolute mess. And then a house is, is magnified in. Not a wise move. And then you have the values conversation. And again, people can, you know, do what they want to do and believe what they want to believe. But I think there is something to be said about acting like you're married and pretending like you're married when you're not, you're not married. And there is, you know, a level of, of something sacred to say, hey, I'm going to join My life with this person under a vow and under a covenant, and we are going to then merge our lives together and actually, you know, do this life together. And, and there's something that, you know, nowadays it's just like, you know, you gave it all away right up front. And it's like, man, there's just something about saying, we're gonna do this in a order that again, some would say is old fashioned, but I think is wise because it actually gives you options. And too, Chris, I've talked to so many people that, you know, they live together and, and worse, they have a house together and they're not like, ugh, I don't even know if I want to marry this person. And the long, you know, creating this timeline of the breaking up lasts so much longer versus, like, hey, we're just trying to figure this out and it's not working. And it's so much easier to cut ties with people, I think. So if it gets to that point.

[George Camel]

What I think's going on here is there, there's a, A lack of foresight, obviously, because they're thinking under best case scenario. And that already is a red flag to me because the truth is, life happens. You don't know what life's gonna happen. So having the right protections in place is important. The other thing is, I think that this is more out of convenience than anything else. I think they're trying to create a certain level of convenience instead of living their lives as they are. How old did you say they are?

[Jade Warshaw]

They're. They're 20 now.

[George Camel]

Okay, they're 20 now. So, yeah, I feel like they're going. They're going. It's just easier to do it like this as opposed to taking the smarter route in, the more independent route. Does that make sense? I mean, I know this is not for you, it's for them, but.

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely. That's why I call, because what you said is right on the money. And I can't wait for them to hear this.

[George Camel]

Well, let us know how they take it. I hope they, they'll take it from two ladies who.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And. And it's a hard thing to. Chris, you know, I mean, granted, she's 20, so I do feel like her, you, you being able to speak into her life is, you know, the doors, it's starting to close, you know, with her becoming an adult, but it's still open, hopefully. But also knowing that, you know, as, as they, as your kids get older and especially when they start entering adulthood, the, the conversation does look different. The tone you take, the perspective you take. And I would just say to you, Chris, that you know as much as you can. The biggest way to influence, I would think her as a 20 year old who's in college, knows what she wants to do for a career. She's obviously very smart and she's, you know, knows a path that she's walking down. But to, to engage this conversation as much on a friend aspect than like, I'm a dad. I'm gonna tell you.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

What to do. I just feel like you start to get to that age in the late teens, early 20s, where it's like the persuasiveness of a parent comes into play much stronger than I can control you. Like when you have like a three year old and you're like, this is what you're gonna do.

[George Camel]

But some of it still gets in like, truth, Truthfully, I remember when I was in my 20s, I was dating this guy and I remember my dad telling me, he was like, jade, like, before you go too deep into this, just know like your tastes change, like what you want changes over time. And I think he told me something like, what you want is going to change like five or six times. So. And I mean, it was weird because he was like, you know, you were dating this guy and you thought, and then you were dating this. He's like, this guy's like number four. Like, you might change your mind again. And as at the time I was kind of like, oh, this guy. Like, dad doesn't know what he's talking about, but he was right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so there's part of, I'm like, you're 20 years old. Don't get me wrong, some people, they marry their high school sweetheart, whatever. I'm not saying against that, but there is a part of it that, that is such a growth period for most of us.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, yeah.

[George Camel]

You change so much from 20 to 25 even.

[Rachel Cruze]

Right, right.

[George Camel]

And so there's part of that where it's like, you guys, you don't know what's going to happen in the future.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Camel]

And you certainly don't want to be like locked into a financial asset like a house.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

That might make you feel trapped.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Let the timeline unfold naturally. Right. And let the turn of events, the, you know, the order of events play out in a natural way versus trying to force it and rearrange everything because it's just going to make it more difficult. Hope that helps. Chris, thanks for the call. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Hey, George Camel here. Listen, we need to talk specifically about.

[Jade Warshaw]

Mama Bear legal forms.

[George Camel]

Allow me to paint you a picture. You plan a vacation, you make a budget, you book the Airbnb, you build a spreadsheet of activities because you're that person. You fire up the Maps app and.

[Rachel Cruze]

Boom, trip of a lifetime.

[Jade Warshaw]

So here's the question.

[George Camel]

If you plan that carefully for a one week getaway, why are you just winging it when it comes to your will?

[Jade Warshaw]

Not having a will in place is.

[George Camel]

Like dropping your family off at a foreign airport with no map, no translator, and no clue what happens next. So when you pass away, sure, your family will be grieving, but they're also overwhelmed, stuck in court, and letting the government decide what happens to everything you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Worked so hard for.

[George Camel]

All because you didn't leave clear instructions. So the good news is you can fix this in 20 minutes with mama Bear legal forms. I used them for my own will, and it was fast, simple, and gave me and my family peace of mind. There's no stuffy lawyer's office, no drama, just a few clicks, and your family's protected. Listen, a will is too important to ignore. It's how you love your people. Well, even after you've yeeed your last haw, as we say in the south. So go to mamabearlegalforms.com and handle this tonight. Use the promo code Ramsey and you'll save 20%. That's mamabearlegalforms.com, promo code Ramsey.

[Rachel Cruze]

So one thing that is approaching, approaching quickly, Jade, is the Live like no one else Cruise. We have 85 of the cabins booked, and you guys don't want to miss it. We're going to Turks and Caicos. We're going to St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas. It's just gonna be. It's gonna be amazing. I mean, so good. Yep. And your tickets, of course, include with a cruise ship, all your food is included, even room service. There's lounges by all the pools and the hot tubs. And we're all going to be there. All the Ramsey personalities and a whole lineup of other, other guests. So it's going to be a really, really fun week, you all. And again, this is for those of you on Baby Steps four and beyond. And we want to celebrate you because we talk about living like no one else. So later you can live and you can give like no one else. And this is part of enjoying the money and where you are financially. And you're going to do it with us. And we can't wait. So it is March 22nd, through the 29th and it's coming up fast. So you do not want to miss this incredible vacation. You can go to ramseysolutions.com cruise or you can click the link in the description. If you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcast, love it. Up next, we have Shannon in Pensacola, Florida. Hey, Shannon, welcome to the show.

[John Deloney]

How are y'? All?

[Rachel Cruze]

We are doing well. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

[John Deloney]

Well, well, I just have a random question because I've been getting a. So I own a home here in Pensacola. That's my only debt and I have a current interest rate at 7.49 and I've been getting. And you know, I just feel like there's just so much fraud going on and I don't know how y' all feel about that.

[George Camel]

What kind of fraud?

[Rachel Cruze]

What do you mean?

[John Deloney]

Well, I just mean like on so many different levels. So I had a kid called me today who said, oh, well, we can give you, you have an FHA loan, so we can give you a five point. I don't know what he said for two. And oh, no money down. I go, wait a minute, I'm a business development person. So I'm like, well, what's in it for you guys?

[George Camel]

So he wanted you to refinance and he's going to get the fees associated me to refinance.

[John Deloney]

But I'm like, wait a minute, how does this work out? Because I keep in touch with my current mortgage broker that I use to buy the home. I keep in touch with her and I say, hey, what are they at? Because I got a letter from FHA.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Who said, hey, we can go down to 5.25 to 5.2%. And I just wanted to know Yalls thoughts on that. And I just feel like I'm like.

[George Camel]

Okay, I mean, you're right. You're.

[John Deloney]

We're going to start to wait. And I know this election there's just so much. All right, all right, do it again.

[George Camel]

Let's roll it on home. All right. Here's the thing.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Yes. I think that we are starting to be at a turning point when we're going to see, I mean, we already have seen mortgage interest rates go down.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I think they're going down again this month is what the Fed is saying they should. Yeah.

[George Camel]

And we might even see it before they release, you know, their report or in their report of the interest rates. Whatever. But my point is you get to decide, right. If you don't want to refinance, you don't have to Refinance. And if there's an offer.

[John Deloney]

You want my mortgage to go down, y'. All.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, if there's an offer that presents itself to you and you're interested in it, I just. You started out the conversation, start talking about scams. And then we kind of went to the election, then we kind of went to interest rates. And I want to kind of clear it out. Being able to refinance your house at a lower interest rate is not a scam unless you do your due diligence and find, okay, this is not reputable scammer for it. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Some random guy that calls you. I probably wouldn't.

[John Deloney]

I just think the guy that called me, I'm just making a point, is that he's like, oh, it doesn't cost you anything. And I'm like, wait a minute. That's kind of where I'm coming down.

[Rachel Cruze]

So, yeah, they're probably to your point. Anything that comes up, that is. That is exciting. Right now. We find this always in the financial industry. There's always going to be people prying on that. Right. So whether it's mortgage, you know, mortgage rates are dropping, so people are going to clamor to refinance. And there may be scammers out of that. Crypto became a big thing. Scammers flock to that. They will flock to try to get people's money. So that's where your discernment, Shannon, comes in. That if you choose and probably will, and anyone listening, refinancing, you know, if you're gonna be in the house long term, it's a. It's a great option.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And so maybe you wait another six months to see continue, you know, after the election, to see if it keeps dropping. And then maybe, Shannon, you decide to do that, then I would use a reputable broker, whether you have one. Churchill Mortgage is one that we recommend here at Ramsey.

[John Deloney]

She's from Oklahoma, and I just trust her.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, that's great. That's great. Yeah. So doing it reputably. So, yeah, I think for sure that it would be. I think it's a great option and people will be doing that more and more.

[George Camel]

And I think you had great advice there, Rachel. If you're looking at rates and you're seeing them go down, I wouldn't like, jump to refinance instantly. I like, let it happen. Let them roll back, because they're probably not going to jump right back up. Right. We. We have finally gotten to the point where it's like, okay, inflation is at this point, unemployment's at this point, it has to happen. So I'm with you. I'd probably wait until after the election, let the chips fall where they do, and then you can make the wisest decision for sure.

[Rachel Cruze]

All right, up next, we got Mike in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Mike. Welcome to the show.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hello. How are you?

[Rachel Cruze]

We're doing great. How can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, I'm 42 years old, and I made some bad financial decisions in my life regarding 401k and stuff like that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got divorced. Ex wife took half the 401k, and I've catched him a few times, and I'm basically starting over at 42. I have, like, 21,000 in my 401k now, and I'm only putting in, like, 6% because we're on baby step number two, and I want to see. Is it too late?

[George Camel]

No, not at all.

[Rachel Cruze]

Not at all.

[George Camel]

Not by a long shot.

[Rachel Cruze]

No. And if anything, this will probably scare you more. Mike, I would advise you to Even pause that 6% while you're getting out of debt, because here's the deal. When you free up so much of your payments, you're able to throw then 15% of your income at retirement and be able to catch up. So how much debt do you guys have?

[Jade Warshaw]

The house we got like 83,000 on and the truck we're trying to get paid off. We should have paid off by the end of this year.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much is it?

[Jade Warshaw]

I got like 10. Almost 11,000 left on me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And we're.

[Rachel Cruze]

You keep saying we. Who's we? I know.

[John Deloney]

You were my wife.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I thought you were. Okay, so you got divorced, you remarried?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, my. My ex wife took half a 401k. I got remarried.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, perfect. Okay, perfect. So 11,000 on the truck, a lot better. Yeah, that's great. Okay, so 11,000 on the truck. What else do you guys have?

[Jade Warshaw]

Just a mortgage.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so the 11,000. Okay. Yeah. So the mortgage goes obviously in baby step six. So we're not worried about that right now. So, yeah, I would get this 11,000. How much do you guys make combined income?

[Jade Warshaw]

I make 37, 84 an hour, and she makes about 30.

[George Camel]

Okay, what's that amount to every month? Do I know what's that amount to every month? What do you see monthly on your budget?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, around five, six thousand a month. Okay, Just for me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Just for you?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

And then what does she bring in a month?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it's close to 5,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you guys are making 120,000 a year?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, close to.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Before. So, yeah, I would pause that 6%, Mike, honestly, until this truck's paid off, and then you guys get a fully funded emergency fund and then press play, and then you got 15%. Jade's got her fancy calculator out, so we're going to be. Are you able to.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I got it in there. Say, so you were worried earlier. You're like, 42. I've made these mistakes. And here's the thing. This is just the picture you painted today. Let's pretend you clear out this car. You clear out the step pretty quickly. And you said you make about 120,000 a year. You know, if you're putting around 15% into investments, that's about 1500 dollars a month. Let's say you do that from the time you're 42 to the. To the time you're 65. And I'm just using the Ramsey Solutions investment calculator. You already had 21,000 in there, which is great. So if every month you contribute 1500 at a 10% rate of return, which is average, contrary to popular belief, I mean, that's almost $2 million. It's $1.8 million. And that's a big deal. That's plenty.

[Rachel Cruze]

And that's on the current income you have, Mike.

[George Camel]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's not. You getting raises and your wife changing jobs. I mean, it will continue. Usually for most people, their income continues to go up in their lifetime. So $2 million, Mike, you're on track. Don't you worry. But, hey, it's a good little. Like, you know, we talk about how fear can be a gift. There's a great book called Fear Is, and There was A Gift of Fear. And there is. There is a beauty in it because it kind of does shake you up a little bit. Oh, my gosh, am I late? And then you're able to say, okay, what changes do we need to make for this not to be a reality? So you're doing great, Mike. I appreciate you calling, and good luck to you and your wife because, yeah, you guys are on track. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

I get it. Switching banks is a pain in the. You know what? But if your bank doesn't line up with your money goals, it's time to make the switch to Fair Winds Credit Union. Listen, you guys know how I feel about big banks. They make money when you stay broke, charging you overdraft fees, pushing credit cards, and telling you debt is normal. And that's why I only work with folks who help you, not just profit off of you. Fairwinds is different. They're owned by their members, their nonprofit, and they share our values. They even advertise with billboards saying they want their members to be debt free. So they built the Smart Checking and Savings Bundle just for Ramsey fans. You can open your account online in minutes and here's what you get. Free checking with no minimums and no monthly fees. Savings with a high apy to help you in baby step one and beyond, and a mobile app that actually makes sense. Plus you also get access to over 33,000 fee free ATMs and more than 5,000 affiliated branches nationwide. So don't settle for a bank that slows your progress down. Choose one that's built to help you win with money. Go to fairwinds.org/ramsey and open your Smart Bundle today.

[Jade Warshaw]

Fairwinds is federally insured by the ncua.

[Rachel Cruze]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. And we're here to answer your questions. Up next, we have Sarah in Atlanta. Hey, Sarah, welcome to the show.

[John Deloney]

Hi, how are you? Thank you for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[John Deloney]

I pretty much don't even know where to really start. So I've been married for less than three years and I've worked for everything that I have and nothing was given to me. And when I got married, I was. My net worth was a little over a million. But that did consist of most money in retirement and equity in a few rental properties. My fiance at the time, now husband, did not have as much as I did, which was fine. And so we had decided to get a prenup and whatever he came in with, I matched. And then anything else in excess of that was to go to our children.

[George Camel]

What he come in with?

[John Deloney]

He came in with 160,000.

[George Camel]

So you were at a million net worth and he was at 160 net worth.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Whose idea was the prenup?

[Jade Warshaw]

Mine.

[George Camel]

Okay, keep going.

[John Deloney]

So fast forward, fast forward. I'm making a great income. He's making a great income. I've always been a saver, just naturally, very always, you know, live below my means. And things just begun, like, just not making any sense. And my husband owns his own business. And I just started seeing our accounts getting lower and lower and lower when I believe our accounts should have been getting higher and higher. So I said, hey, you know, like, what's going on? And his response Was, you know, I just haven't done the paperwork, you know, for taxes, and said that he filed the tax extension. So, you know, so it's taking money out of his savings until he goes through his paperwork so he can know what he has to pay. Exactly. I said, okay. Several months went by and I still noticed these things going down and things just don't make sense to me. Something in particular happened and I said. I pretty much said, are you sure everything's okay? He said, yeah. I asked him to please let me see his account, his business account where he said all the money was. And that's when he admitted to me that he has. That he is. He has been stealing from. His words were from us, from me, and is a fraud and needless to say, dove into everything and he has completely wiped us out.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh.

[John Deloney]

Our savings, everything. We now only have two months of emergency fund. We have two very small children to two under two.

[Rachel Cruze]

Huh.

[George Camel]

When you say he wiped out your savings, how much did you have saved and he was just funneling it to keep his business afloat? Is that what you're saying?

[John Deloney]

So we had. We had over $100,000 in savings. He also took from me personally $286,000 out of where? Just various accounts that I had that were deemed as premarital, but that weren't supposed to be touched.

[George Camel]

And what did he use that money for?

[John Deloney]

So I. So I just went through everything and there is no addictions. There was no other woman. There's nothing like that. So then when I dove into things. So it turns out that he actually. The lies began when we were dating, and he actually lied on his prenup. And the 160,000 that he even came in with were tied to loans and lines of credit from his business.

[George Camel]

So he just said that this is how much credit I have. It's not real. It's not real net worth.

[John Deloney]

I didn't know that.

[Rachel Cruze]

But that's what he just admitted to you, though, recently. So. Yeah.

[George Camel]

So really he came in with zero and he lied.

[Rachel Cruze]

And he lied on a.

[John Deloney]

He actually came in with legal document.

[George Camel]

So he lied on a legal document too?

[John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

When did all this happen, Sarah?

[John Deloney]

How long ago? About two months ago.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

And I have to say, I'm still in shock.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure, sure.

[George Camel]

How's the business doing? Is. Is it going into the business and his business is tanking or does he. When you look at his business is. Is there profit and he's just not bringing that back into the personal side?

[John Deloney]

His no, no. His business is not doing anywhere near as well as it used to or as it was, and he has been lying about how well it's doing. And, you know. You know, and just, you know, like, I'm. I'm a budgeter. You know, like, if you tell me, hey, you know, only this much money is coming in, I'll just, you know, pull out a spreadsheet and say, hey, let's start budgeting. But that's not what happened. Instead, you know, we're going on vacation.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Instead, we're, you know, doing things like that that we shouldn't be doing if you have debt. So he's also racked up about $130,000 now in personal debt.

[George Camel]

Can. Can I ask you a. Can I ask you a question? Because he's not here, so I can't question him in the same way.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

What was the inside of you that made you go, I need to sign a prenup with this guy? Was there a red flag already?

[John Deloney]

No, it was. No, there wasn't. It was just the fact that our. That our net worth was so vastly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Different. Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Different.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sarah, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. So are you separating from him?

[John Deloney]

No. I feel we have two very small children, and again, I'm still very much in shock, but we have two very small children. And I know the statistics with growing home, going in a home, you know, growing up in a home with a broken household, and I don't want that for my children either.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Are you in counseling?

[John Deloney]

They're just so young.

[George Camel]

Are you guys in counseling? Will he go?

[John Deloney]

No, he said he would go, but to be quite frank, it's not something that we could afford right now.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, if you're going to make this. The marriage part work, Sarah, you're married to a liar. And not just a liar, like, here and there. Like, I mean, this is like a. This is. Yeah. This is like there's. There's something. There's something wrong. Deeply, deeply, deeply wrong with him. And in the process, he's hurting his family. And so for you to draw boundaries for yourself does not make you a bad mom. I just want to. I just want to give you freedom to do what's best for Sarah in this moment and to. For this to be a healthy longevity, you know, level of a marriage. There is. There is a lot of broken. Broken, broken pieces. And without a professional, I really believe to be in the mix of this and for him to show deep remorse and a pattern of change until you have Trust. I'm separating everything today, Sarah, financially, you need to protect yourself. You need to. Your income now goes into a different account with his name nowhere near it. I would contact a lawyer just on the basis of lying about a prenup. I would just get some more information to protect yourself and your kids.

[John Deloney]

Because I have. I have already done most of that and I'm in the midst of a post op, which he has agreed to.

[Rachel Cruze]

Where you go back and. And have like basically a prenup in the middle of the marriage. Is that. Is that what that is? Changing the prenup to make it correct? So where you guys currently are.

[John Deloney]

No, no, just reiterating that, like his debt is his debt. And even if I decided to, let's say, help him get out of his debt, that I would not be, you know, I'm expecting to get reimbursed at some point. It's not just my responsibility.

[Rachel Cruze]

I hear you.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, what we find so much often, Sarah, with these. I mean that this. I mean, the level of financial infidelity that you've experienced is the level of an affair. I mean, you know, you can. You can put anything in place, but that you start to question yourself. I mean, there's so much in that when you are so deeply lied to from the person that you're supposed to be in a marriage with. So I would do what I. I would have my own therapist. I would have him go to therapy if you're going to make this work. But I would also protect yourself until a pattern is proven that he's proven back his trust with finances. But for now, I would keep it separate. And you have your stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[Jade Warshaw]

And. Oh, you're telling me. And for. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too.

[Jade Warshaw]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to A young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options. And your dadgum family term life insurance.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

To just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[George Camel]

You are listening to the Ramsay show And hey, thank you for listening to this show. This show is bringing hope to so many people, changing millions of lives. I'm one of those lives and so I just have a special appreciation. And by the way, if you want to show your appreciation, something that you can do that's so easy, it'll cost you nothing. Just share the show, whether that's you sharing it through text, whether it's you liking and subscribing because when you do that, it does share it through the algorithms. It makes it more readily available. And so when you do that, it just gives more people access to the life change that we know is within this content that we share day in and day out. So thank you for listening, thank you for liking, thank you for subscribing and thank you, thank you for sharing this show. We really, really appreciate it. It helps us oh so much. So keep doing that. And in the meantime, we're gonna go to the phones. We got Brenda, she's in Jackson, Mississippi. What's going on? Brenda?

[John Deloney]

Hello. Hi, Jaden. Rachel. Thank you for taking my call.

[George Camel]

You bet.

[John Deloney]

Me and my husband are having a little bit of a disagreement about a job that's coming up. Me and my husband are in baby step three, so saving up for that three to six month emergency fund. My husband and I just run a little side gig of handyman service. We have not been formally trained or anything but we work on our own house and so do it for friends and family that need help. The job that's coming up this weekend is for a missionary friend of ours. The wife doesn't work and the husband works two small part time jobs and they had a leak in their bathroom and they knew about it but didn't deal with it for A couple of years. So now the damage is pretty extensive. So my husband wants to charge them about $10 an hour for us to do the work. They will cover the materials in addition and then. But I want to charge our standard service, which is about $50 an hour.

[George Camel]

Oh, okay.

[John Deloney]

He says that they're poor and so we shouldn't charge them. And they have told us that they don't really have the money to do it, but it's getting to the point where their showers about to fall through the floor.

[George Camel]

Did they come to you because they figured you would give them a discount? Like, have they given any indication that it's like, oh, they'll probably give us a discount?

[John Deloney]

Not necessarily, but they, they know that we're going to be cheaper than a regular contractor that's going to come out and do it.

[Rachel Cruze]

I mean, Brenda, how long, how long would the problem with the project take? How long will the project take?

[John Deloney]

2 to 4 days, depending on how expensive it is. Once we get into it, if it's worse than we think it is, and.

[George Camel]

If you did it, that would be the only thing you could work on for the two to four days.

[John Deloney]

Yes, but it's time that my husband has off anyway, so it's not like we're taking off additional work.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I mean, if you feel like you're being taken advantage of, that's one thing for sure. That doesn't feel good ever to anyone. Um, but we also, when we talk about giving, you know, there's giving in money, there's giving in time, there's giving in talents, and maybe it's a thing your husband's like, yeah, I just feel called to help this family. And they're in a really rough situation. They don't have the money to fix something like their water. Like, I mean, it's kind of a need, it's a necessity. And I mean, if he wants to do it. And again, I think it's a one off if it becomes a pattern where he constantly is using his time and keeps losing money continually, maybe like a red flag, but for two days, if it's something that he wants to do. I mean, I get you guys are on baby step three. I understand it. And again, if you're being taken advantage of, like, that feels gross. Right? Like there's a, there's a level there where you're like, I don't know if that feels right. And. But I feel like if he wants to do it out of just who he is and he can, and y' all aren't Paying y'.

[George Camel]

All.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's no out of pocket for y'.

[George Camel]

All.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's really just time at that point. I don't know. I, I, I could see it, but I'm more of, like, the emotional side person when it comes to that stuff. We're like, yeah, absolutely, we can do it, but I don't want it to be detrimental to you guys. But I don't think 20, I don't think two days is detrimental.

[George Camel]

I mean, I'll tell, I'll tell you what my husband and I do, because I'm always the one that's like, let's give this much. And he's like, cool out. Like, let's pull back. Like, let me, let me look at the numbers. And so what we always do is we agree to pray about it. Like, you go over there and pray about it. I'll go over here and pray about it. And then when we come together, it's like, 1, 2, 3. Say it. And still I'm always the one that's trying to do the most. And he's come up a little bit, you know, and so then from there, we just kind of meet in the middle. So maybe it's, you know, you want to charge the whole 50 an hour? He was doing 10. Maybe it's like, hey, maybe getting off this call, you're like, fine, I'll just do what he wants to do. But if you're not like, go pray about it. Give yourselves 24 hours or whatever time you have, and then meet in the middle. Like, you'll either come out on, on the same card or it's something that you have to meet in the middle. And maybe it's like, okay, we're not going to charge 50, but we're going to charge 25, and we're going to give them half rate, whatever it is.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Or maybe it's a time thing, too, that if you guys get into it and it's going to take a day beyond that, that you guys may say, hey, there's a point that we're not going to be able to continue this because of X, Y and Z. And letting them know that up front. Have you guys asked their budget at all?

[John Deloney]

We know they follow. We know they've heard about the Ramsey plan and they agree with it. But we also know that they, they don't have the money.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, but did they say that to you guys, like, we don't have money to fix this?

[John Deloney]

Well, not necessarily, but they told us that they might put, like, we, we said we would need Money up front to pay for the materials. And they said, well, if we don't get paid this week, like, if our check isn't big enough, we'll just put it on a credit card. And that's when my husband was like, no. So much.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. So again, I think, you know, we.

[John Deloney]

Didn'T put him in this position. They knew about this leak for years, and they did nothing about it. Sure could have been a cheaper fix.

[Rachel Cruze]

So, yeah, yeah. You know, so, yeah. And again, I think if there are people in your lives that you continue to enable and continue to give and give and give and give and give, and they don't. I mean, like, there's a level that you could start to be taken advantage of for sure, but if you haven't had history of that or history going forward. And he just feels this, like, tug on his heart of, like, I just feel like, you know, I want to do this, not because I have to or because I feel bad. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's bad. There's not great motivations always. Like, it needs to be something that he's like, listen, I see this family. I know I can do this. I'm gonna give him two days. I'm gonna give them a significant discount. They need the help. And I feel called to do that. Like, that may be what he wants to do. You know what I mean? But I do think, yes, I hear you, Brenda. That it doesn't feel right. There's not a level of justice there. She's not working. She could go and get a job and bring in money. Like, I hear all of that totally.

[George Camel]

What's the real numbers here? Because you gave us by hour. Like, what. How. How much money is this equating to?

[John Deloney]

So if it was my fee, it would be a thousand to fifteen hundred dollars, not including materials. And we don't upcharge on the materials at all.

[George Camel]

O.

[John Deloney]

And if it was my husband's, it would just be $200 flat.

[George Camel]

And who covers the materials?

[John Deloney]

They do they still cover the materials? Yes. So it's about $300 in materials and then an additional $200 for labor.

[Jade Warshaw]

So $500 total.

[George Camel]

Okay, so we're talking about the difference between, like $200 or $1800.

[John Deloney]

No, $1500 or $500.

[George Camel]

Okay, so it's a thousand.

[John Deloney]

The materials is 300, and it'd be the same either way.

[George Camel]

So it's a thousand dollar difference. You know, I. I wouldn't tell you what to do. I mean, I can sit here and be like, listen, if you guys have the money, do it. But at the same time, you and your husband have to be on the same page. And that's something that Rachel and I can't do for you. So listen, take my advice. Go home and give yourself a quick little bit of time and be like, we're going to pray about it. We're going to take, you get 24 hours, I get 24 hours. We're going to reconvene and no matter where we hit, we're going to meet in the middle. And then there is some bit of give and some bit of take because I would be feeling some type of way if I was like, this is my, this is my vacation time. Like we were supposed to go away with the family and do something fun because then it's not only the time, but it's the value of the time, too. So there are.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. If he's having to take PTO and all. Yes. I think that there's. Yes. Wise ways to go about it. But if you're self employed, he's doing his own thing and he has two days that he has to go and help. I don't know.

[George Camel]

I think service is a great way to give.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. And you're not. And it hurts sometimes more than money. Time is so valuable. It's so valuable.

[George Camel]

Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a conundrum. But you know, I always like to live to lean a little bit on the side of generosity. I mean, you have to do what you can afford and what makes sense for your family. But yes, generosity is very, very important. That does it for this hour of the Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us. Check us out next hour.

[Jade Warshaw]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the Everydollar app start budgeting for free today.

[Rachel Cruze]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author Jade Warshaw. And we are here to answer your questions. So give us a call at 888-255-225. We'll be answering your questions about life, about money, relationships, career, anything or everything. We are here for you, America. All right, up next, we have Josh in Sacramento, California. Hey, Josh, welcome to the show.

[John Deloney]

Hi.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thanks for having me taking for my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely.

[Jade Warshaw]

I live in the People's Republic of California. I'm trying to leave this state. What I have a problem with is it's kind of financial and life, career as well. So right now I'm a federal government employee. I am seven years out from retirement or when I'm eligible. My wife is a nurse. She makes really good money in California and they make her anywhere for $90 an hour. My, my goal is to one, sell my house, transfer to a different position and to a different state within the same agency just because I have a very toxic work environment going on right now. And I just, I need to get out. But the problem is if my wife leaves the state of California, she'd go from $90 an hour to $30 an hour, which is a huge financial, huge financial cut. She'd also probably lose her 401k as well as that. We did talk about doing foster to adopt in the event that we did move. But my question to you, I guess, is, am I just being cutting my nose off the spite of my face and just, I just deal with it knowing the fact that I have seven years left of retirement. My house will be paid off in four years.

[George Camel]

You sound like you're at the end of your, like, rope. You sound really frustrated.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, I am. I'm very frustrated. Yes. I'm very frustrated. I've, I've wanted transfer. I've wanted to transfer and get out of the state for 17 years of my career.

[Rachel Cruze]

Does your wife want to leave as well? Besides the money, I know she'll take a pay cut, but just in general.

[Jade Warshaw]

Her family's here, but she realizes how frustrated I am. And like I said, my, my boss is just utterly horrible right now and.

[George Camel]

It'S been going on for a long time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, yeah. Yes, it has. So my question to you is my being emotionally stupid by wanting to leave just so I can quote, unquote, have a More happy life to trade one stress for another for financial stress.

[George Camel]

Is it California? Like. Okay, so if you, you work for the state, it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, it's. It's California. The state sucks. The high taxes, just getting out. Everything.

[George Camel]

All right. Okay. You are. Yeah, you. You're at your wits.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're done. You're done.

[George Camel]

Okay. So if you were to leave, what would you do and where would you go?

[Jade Warshaw]

I basically stay with the same federal agency. I would go from what I'm doing now to basically to just a different function of job function, but just for the same pay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is there a difference?

[Jade Warshaw]

A little bit.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm glad.

[Jade Warshaw]

It would be a lower cost of living, which would be 13 grand a year.

[George Camel]

Where.

[Jade Warshaw]

But I'd imagine that. So I'd be from California, possibly to Georgia, but I'm wondering if tax rate out of cash. Well, that's where, that's where the position is at for my agency.

[George Camel]

Have you ever been to Georgia?

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Have you ever been.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, I have.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

What's your wife think about Georgia?

[Jade Warshaw]

Sections of it she hates. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Because here's the thing, Josh. I mean, I can hear you're frustrated and I, I mean, I could only imagine. I mean, I, I understand it is from the, from like just the state perspective that you're frustrated with. And then on top of that, you have a terrible job. You go and work somewhere for 40, 50 hours a week.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

In a miserable place. So, yeah. You're. You're not in a good. This isn't like a good headspace for Josh. So my question is, you're not the only one. And this equation. Right. So your wife is, is going to have as much of an input in the situation, in this decision, too. Because I think that there, there has to be this. You know, I don't know. But if she is not on board, resentment later on in life, you know, moving away from family.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Going to a place she hates. She's going to end up being you in four years. Possibly. I don't know. But that's a warning sign. It's just like, you guys need to be so tight knit on this decision because it's a big deal to move across the country.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So. So you guys need to lock arms and like, be like, we are in this together. The, the good, the bad, the ugly. We are in this together because I don't want your marriage to be destroyed in the process either. Right. And I want to be able to give her a voice, too. And her frustrations may not be as deep as yours and I don't want her. And I. And honestly, Josh, the motivation for her, I'm like, I. There's a part of me that I'm like, I would hate for her to do it just, Just to make you happy. Because. Because Josh is frustrated. So we gotta go do what Josh wants to do. Right. So, like, there needs to be a level of agreement upon you guys. And I thought plan B too, which, I know you hate California, but is there a different position you could take where you guys live? A different job, a different opportunity at least to get out of the toxic ness of that job and then just have the frustrations with the taxes in California? I don't know. Yeah, but if you and your wife agree to move to Georgia, then make the move. You're not. No. Leaving a job seven years away from retirement is not stupid because the work is. You're in a terrible situation. So, no, that is not stupid to leave that.

[George Camel]

No, I. Listen, I. I am of the mind that if one spouse is completely unhappy, then the neither. Nobody's happy.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's true.

[George Camel]

So I do think that probably a move is good, but if she has come out and said, I don't really like Georgia, then Georgia's gotta be off the table. You've got to pick a place where both of you are like, yeah, I feel, yeah, I'm up for that adventure. And I mean, there's 50. I don't want to say 50 states. What is it now, 49?

[Rachel Cruze]

No, it's 50.

[George Camel]

But don't the other territories count? Okay, so there's 50 states and then some territories, depending on what history book you look in. Okay. And so there's a lot of options here, is what I'm saying. Going back to the conversation about the 401k, quickly. What made you say that she'd lose her 401k?

[Jade Warshaw]

So. So, well, I wouldn't say she would lose her 401k. What she do is she would stop contributing to her 401k. So she'd be able to take it out.

[George Camel]

Yeah, you just transfer it. You just transfer it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[George Camel]

Okay. I just want to be clear about that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I guess the issue is me is, you know, I've only got seven years left. My mortgage will be done in four years on my house. My wife is like going from $90 an hour to basically 30 if she decides to work. If not, then it's like, it's a huge.

[George Camel]

Let me ask, let me ask you this. Is there any world where you're like, I. Is there any world where you're willing to ride this out longer because you're the person who brought up, in just seven years, I'll retire and in just four years, I'll have my car paid off. So. Or, yeah, I'm sorry, my house paid off. So do you really care about those things or do you know what I'm saying? Like, are those things that you're weighing in or are you beyond that?

[Jade Warshaw]

So here's the problems. Emotionally and mentally, I'm just. I am checked out. The problem is, is I don't want to live life on the emotional aspect. I know logically, financially, it makes more sense to stay. However, I don't know if I can emotionally and mentally handle it for.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, mentally and emotionally is going to be. Because you could be debt free and still be miserable in your job.

[George Camel]

Like, and you're not saying this is after six months. You've said for years, for years, you've.

[Jade Warshaw]

Been upset about most of my career. Probably about 10, the last 10 years of my career, it's gotten a little bit.

[George Camel]

So it's safe to say that you have sacrificed a certain way.

[Rachel Cruze]

Why have you stayed in it, Josh? I'm curious.

[Jade Warshaw]

What was that?

[Rachel Cruze]

Why have you stayed in it for 10 years?

[Jade Warshaw]

The pension, in early retirement.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so this is a good lesson for America, that money does not equate to happiness. There is a level of your life that as adults, we have to decide to bring a level of peace and just. And to work a crappy. I would say a different word, but we're on a family friendly show, crappy, crappy situation just to make a paycheck. You guys, it's not worth it.

[George Camel]

It's not worth it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Like, life is too short. Life is too short, Jo. So you and your wife. I would sit down, you guys. Yeah. Pick a place on the map and say, we're gonna transfer and we may even be in different careers, but we're gonna find the level of peace and enjoyment. And we may make less, but people that make less and live within their means and work somewhere, they're happy. So, yeah, you gotta. Yeah, Josh, y' all gotta make some changes for sure. And you should have made them eight years ago. If I'm being honest. Not to shame you, but it's true. We need to make some decisions here. Josh, we're rooting for you. Come to Nashville. This is the Ramsey show.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, this is Dr. John Deloney for Churchill Mortgage. Good friends. I have bought multiple homes with Churchill Mortgage because they always shoot straight with me. They tell me the truth. So Let me shoot straight with you. When you're getting ready to buy a home, the first step is not house hunting, it's making a plan. Don't settle for tapping a button and just talking to a bot. I want to encourage you to sit down with a guide you can trust. My friends at Churchill Mortgage, they actually see you, they actually care about you, and they'll listen and learn your goals and most importantly, they will tell you the truth. Churchill has loan experts who focus on you and your unique situation. So your journey ends with a home that's a blessing, not a burden. Churchill Mortgage can even help you become a certified home buyer so that when the time is right and you find the right house, you're ready to make your move. I know the housing market is tough right now. I know. But you probably have more options than you think. Churchill would love to help you figure them out and they'll do it with honesty and integrity. Learn [e-mail] this is a paid advertisement.

[Rachel Cruze]

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[George Camel]

All right, today's question comes from Justin in California. He says, I've been working hard to save money for a house. My wife and I have no debt and have a six month emergency fund. So far I've saved 175,000. For our down payment, we have a combined income of 140,000. We live in California and are looking at houses in the $650,000 range. I want to save more so that we can put more down on the house. My wife has been asking me to buy her a diamond ring that costs about $3,500. I am holding off on buying the ring because we can use that money to pay for closing costs. Should I buy a diamond ring for her or wait until we buy the house? This is wild. I'm assuming that the diamond ring is not like an like a wedding ring or like. I'm assuming it's Just a gift that she wants.

[Rachel Cruze]

Right, Right. Yeah.

[George Camel]

I think based on what you've laid out here, I would have loved to hear her side of it. But based off of what you've laid out here, it sounds like you have decided that the priority is the house. And at the end of the day, you both need to sit down and re talk and say, okay, what's more important, us trying to get into this house? Because if I buy this ring, this is how much it sets us back.

[John Deloney]

So.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And I would want to know the time frame on how much. Like how. How many months or how. You know what I mean? Like, just to know, like how. What is this setting you back and is that. Are you, Are you okay with that? Both of you?

[George Camel]

Yeah. And I do think it's okay. And Rachel, you can drop in here. I think it's okay. Like as a couple, when you set a focus and you're going towards that thing and as the time passes, other things crop up and you're like, oh, that could be cool. Or that could be fun.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[George Camel]

And I do think it's important to have those conversations and decide, are we realigning back on what the goal was or are we going to divert here for a moment? Because at the end of the day, it is your life and you get to decide, you know, how. How urgently are we moving.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right.

[George Camel]

And I don't know if this diamond ring was something you've been promising her. Maybe you guys got engaged and you never got her a ring. I don't know any of. But have the conversation. But it sounds like the house is what's most important.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I would say, you know, the down payment, you guys are, you know, above that 25%.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So I'm like, you're in a good, A good spot for the down payments, you know, like it's a. I don't know, you. You have a lot there percentage wise for what the house is worth. So how much would 3000 really set you back? But also I'd want to know from her. Like, you know, they're about. And I do, you know, don't get me wrong, I love jewelry, I love shopping, all of it. But also you're like, okay, what, what is that gonna get me in the. In the near term, right? Maybe.

[George Camel]

Yeah, maybe.

[Rachel Cruze]

Maybe. God are just like a band when they got married and always promised her like an actual, like diamond ring.

[George Camel]

I don't know that story.

[Rachel Cruze]

So, yeah, valid if there's something there. But I would want to see time frame, how Long. This would set you back to the goal that you want to have for your down payment on the house. That's what I'd be curious about. Hope that helps, Justin. All right, up next, we have Haley in Omaha. Hey, Haley. Welcome to the show.

[John Deloney]

Hi. Thank you for having me today. It's such an honor to be on the show.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

[John Deloney]

So my parents took out a universal life policy on me when I was born, me and my sister both. And now that I've turned 21, I have the option to continue paying those payments for the universal life policy or cashing it out at the cash value and gifting that back to my parents and just moving on for the future.

[George Camel]

Oh, you have to give it back to them when you cash it out?

[John Deloney]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is that what they said?

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. How much will it be?

[John Deloney]

It says $750 for the cash value.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Camel]

I'm just curious because you said you have the option to keep paying on it or cash it out.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So that's interesting to me that you would keep paying on it and then. But if you were to cash it out, you have to give the money back to them. This is very odd. Either way, I would cash it out and get out of that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. How old are you, Haley? Did you say?

[John Deloney]

I'm. I'm 21.

[Rachel Cruze]

21. Okay. So the difference between what they have, a universal life policy, is similar to, like, it's like, basically a whole life policy, and you're paying probably four times the amount than what you would pay for just a standard term policy. Because what you have this universal life, what they basically pair is this, like, investment savings account with life insurance. And what ends up happening when you pair and marry those two products, Bucks, you kind of get crappy on both, especially the savings side. So the rate of return usually within these policies is, like, it's terrible. You could do better in a high yield savings account, much less like, actually investing your money with the 1012 return you know, that the market brings. So the. The savings investment portion sucks on these. And that's the selling point. So always remember this, Haley, going forward into adulthood, that you want to keep your insurance and your investing completely separate. Never combine them, because when you combine them, you're not getting the best of both worlds. You're paying more for a policy, and you're getting a crappy investment with it. So, like, it's a horrible product. And a lot of parents. Yeah. You took it out when you were born. I mean, that's the GERBER life insurance. I mean, like all these companies go and they do this, you know, these policies for babies and, and why you need life insurance too, Haley, is if someone is dependent upon your income. So if I were you, Haley, I would cancel it, say goodbye to the $700, give it back to your parents.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

And live your life. Don't, don't be paying monthly on this. And then when you need life insurance, AKA when you, usually when you become a parent or even if you get married, you know, and someone is dependent upon your income to live the lifestyle that you guys are living, then I.

[John Deloney]

Want you to go that I could have this policy if I were to like, pass away and then someone were to have to pay for my funeral cost. So that's why this policy is around like $25,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure. Okay.

[John Deloney]

Well, you would recommend having savings for, or a policy for the purpose of.

[George Camel]

Insurance is for people who are dependent on your income. Typically when you have life insurances in place, it's because, like, for instance, I have life insurance in place because my family depends on my income. My husband has life insurance in place because we depend on his income. We have children. And so if one of us, God forbid, if something were to happen, the family will feel that. And so we say, let's have this policy in place so that if the worst happens, everybody who depends on this income will be set. Not just enough to pay for funeral and burial costs, but they won't have to worry about money. That's the blessing that can come out of a really tough situation. So in this case, your parents having a policy on you was completely, truly unnecessary.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And the funeral cost, you know, idea funerals, they are getting more expensive. But at 21 years old, I would not have the burden of feeling like I need to have savings for my funeral. Right. So, like that. I. I would not add that into the conversation. Some people may be like, that's irresponsible, but as a 21 year old, your parents will take care of it if something were to happen to you, Haley. So, yeah, I would not be paying monthly into something just for that. And that is a selling point they say too, right?

[George Camel]

Like, that's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

To cover the funeral and all of that. So. So again, Haley, when you get in a position in life, though, that you need life insurance, remember, term life is going to be your best friend. And the earlier you get it, the younger you are, the healthier you are. It is like, it is so inexpensive. I mean, even for me, I'm in my late 30s and it's still inexpensive at this point. I mean like it is, it is a fraction of what you pay with whole life. So.

[George Camel]

And the coverage you get for that is.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Is so much better.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. And for term life, it is for a term of your life. Right. Whole life is for your entire life. Term is for, you know, a 20 year, 30 year, whatever policy you buy. But as you're doing the Ramsey baby steps and you're walking through getting out of debt, you have an emergency fund in place, you're funding retirement, eventually your house is paid off, you know, baby steps. Millionaires are doing all of this on average in about nine to 12 years doing everything. And at that point you're self insured. When you, when you, if something were to happen to you and there's no house payment, there's no debt and you have, I don't know, 300 grand and a 401k or whatever it is, like, you know, everyone's fine. So you won't need life insurance for your entire life if you're doing the Ramsey way when it comes to your money, which is what we recommend. I feel like it's a great call, Haley, great question.

[George Camel]

Whole life, universal life. It's like the spork. And it's a sport.

[Rachel Cruze]

It is.

[George Camel]

It's not really a fork, it's not really a spoon.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And if you go to Zander sucks Zander insurance dot com. You guys check out Zander because you're able to get a quote so quickly with them, just to even see and compare, maybe the insurance that you all have that are listening or watching and maybe you can get a better deal because they go and shop many companies and it's a great, great company. So check out Zander.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Rachel Cruze]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We have Katie on the line from Dallas from the last segment. And Katie was telling US she has $47,000 saved, $24,000 in debt, which was car and credit cards. And she was wondering initially when she called in about how to invest and how to pay off debt, not just let that money sit there because she wants to make progress. And as we kind of were digging into to the numbers in her situation, kind of unpacking the relational side of money and marriage and money is so closely related. When you are married, working together with your spouse and being on the same team is a crucial part, but also, we know on the other end, it's one of the leading causes of fights and tension and divorce and conflict and when you're not on the same page and when. And when you live kind of separate lives financially. And as we were unpacking with Katie a little bit, that's what we've kind of started to discover is where they are from a relational standpoint when it comes to their money. Katie, is that a good overview? Would you change any of that or add anything?

[John Deloney]

Oh, gosh. That was unexpected. Yes. You've definitely unpacked it.

[Rachel Cruze]

We unpacked it. Yeah. So before we were getting off the call, we just kind of asked, and I feel like you, it kind of struck some emotion in you of knowing that you guys don't work together, but yet he has a lot of debt. And you said it was just too much debt for you to even want to handle or to face, Is that right?

[John Deloney]

Yeah. My parents, they, they, they got divorced because of money.

[Rachel Cruze]

So that's a big fear.

[John Deloney]

The background, my husband, he's, he has let some. A few credit cards go to collections recently. As soon as my daughter was born. He just, he's been underwater for what feels like a long time, probably two years already. And if I mention this, you're gonna say sell it. Well, tell us the truck. It's the truck. He has 11,000 left on it. But it's these monthly payments of $600 that he, he wants to be free from.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, okay. What other debt does he have? What's the credit cards and collections, what are, what are those amount to? Do you know?

[John Deloney]

I want to say roughly, it's 7,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Anything else?

[John Deloney]

Now you've opened my eyes. Not. No, not that I know. Maybe I need to have a discussion with them.

[George Camel]

I think so. Because don't get me wrong, I hate debt and I don't like any amount or form of debt. But I was again expecting for you to say like, he's got $200,000. I was expecting something way more astronomical. And when you told us, hey, yeah, he's got $18,000 of debt, I kind of just was like, oh, okay, cool. Like we can pay that off. And he's working, right?

[John Deloney]

Yes, he is. Okay, let me dig deeper.

[George Camel]

I just.

[John Deloney]

It just came in. So he has. We have this watercraft boat.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

It is under both of our names, but he takes financial responsibility for it. And the balance is 11,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, so there's another 11K.

[Rachel Cruze]

What else? Anything else?

[John Deloney]

Aside from his truck, the car and a few credit cards, there is nothing else.

[George Camel]

So a truck and a car.

[John Deloney]

Sorry, the. The truck and the boat.

[George Camel]

Okay, truck and the boat. So we're 28,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much. How much is the boat worth? Do you know?

[John Deloney]

No idea.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Okay.

[John Deloney]

We haven't looked into it. It's very precious.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And does he have any money saved in his name?

[John Deloney]

No.

[Rachel Cruze]

No. Okay. So. Okay, so Katie, I think what this starts to open up and what you're feeling, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it is touching every security insecurity part of your story and in your life, like you've done everything you can to stock money away, even taking out credit cards and spending over here. But just knowing the safety of money has been a lifeline for you and probably coming out of a lot of pain from your parents experience. And you've done everything to safeguard yourself, right, Against, I would say against debt. But what's funny is you've taken on some debt, right? So there is still a level of risk there, but you've padded yourself with the savings and it's kind of become your lifeline and you're gripping onto that and letting go of that is one of the scariest things for you to do. Would that be correct?

[John Deloney]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Which is very understandable, Katie. Very understandable. And so I want you to as much as you can. Because with money, emotions drive so much of this. And the more logical we can get, the safer I think you're going to feel with some of these decisions. And one of the first steps I would do is sit down with him because I don't know his. I'm not on the phone with him, and I can't ask him these questions. I don't know where he's at. If he is at a place, Katie, that he's like, I'm so overwhelmed. I'm so mad at myself. Right. He's probably not feeling great about himself. And it's like, I want to change. I want to turn this around. That's. That's one scenario. A scenario I would have a red flag and cause you to pump the brakes a little bit on all of this. If he's like, I don't care. I don't care, Katie. I'm gonna do what I want. And we get those calls too, with some guys that are like, well, he wants to buy the truck. He doesn't care. He's gonna buy it. And we're, you know, we can't make the payment, but he doesn't care. Right? So, like, that is a character issue. If it's that, would you say it's kind of the first scenario or the second?

[John Deloney]

I'm pretty sure he will call the show tomorrow. Okay, good.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, but so he's more of. On the first. On that first, you know, scenario, you.

[John Deloney]

Would say he's all for it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Okay. So, Katie. Okay, I. I just. I want to encourage you that you're. This is all good, right? Like, I know you feel overwhelmed, and we're gonna walk you through a very clear plan right now. So the first thing I want you to do is you guys together tonight. You can open a bottle of wine if you need, like, just a good.

[George Camel]

Sip of something, order a pizza, whatever.

[Rachel Cruze]

You got to do to relax and say, okay. Together, we're gonna look at everything. We're getting out our pay sub stubs. We're gonna know exactly. Because when I asked you how much money you guys make a year, you said, I think around six. Like, I want you to know, to the dollar, here's what we make combined. Here's every debt. We're going to write it out, and we're going to know everything here. And we're going to tonight shake hands and say, we are now a team together. No longer are we roommates Venmo Ing each other for the mortgage. No, screw all of that. No. We are one. Our income. When our income hits our new checking account that we're going to open on Monday morning, when our income hits that account together, we are working as a team. Because when you do that, Katie, not only from an emotional perspective. Does it create so much unity and so much of a more beautiful marriage? Because you see yourselves as one, which is what you do when you choose to get married, to live life with another person. You're. You're living that out on a tactical sense with your money. So that's such a beautiful part of it. And then together, tactically, as you start to trust each other in this, you're gonna have this cleaned up. Katie, I would sell the boat immediately, but then by Monday, you guys can take this 47,000. And this is going to scare you, but I would pay off all. I would keep a thousand. And. And you would have. You have, I think, 42,000 if you. If you don't count the boat, because I want that sold.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're going to pay off everything else. Okay. And so you're going to have $5,000 left. And you guys together are going to have a goal, I would say to save up Probably, I don't know, 26, 27,000 for an emergency fund. And you're gonna. That's your next goal together, Katie, is to work to. To buff up that emergency fund. Okay. And that's going to take you guys, you know, maybe the next eight, nine months, ten months to do all of that for that emergency fund. But together, that's going to be your goal for 20, 25 together, doing this. Getting rid of the payments. We're done with payments. And now you're going to have your full income to be putting towards this emergency.

[John Deloney]

Five thousand left.

[Rachel Cruze]

What'd you say?

[John Deloney]

Yeah, I would have 5,000 left. So I'm paying off my two credit cards?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

I'm paying off my car.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

Selling the boat.

[Rachel Cruze]

Mm.

[John Deloney]

And you suggested paying off the truck.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[John Deloney]

Oh, gosh, that's scary.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is it scary because of what's going to be left, the 5,000, or it's scary that you're paying off his debt?

[John Deloney]

That's great.

[George Camel]

You know what might make it less scary? If I were you, I'd calculate up all the monthly payments. I'd calculate what you're paying in car payments, what you're paying in credit card payments, what he's paying in credit card payments, what he's paying in boat payments, and what you're paying in truck payments. Add up all that money, and when you see that. That you're going to have that back every single month, I think that's going to make you feel less. Less scared, because that's a lot. That's a hefty chunk.

[Rachel Cruze]

You have a lot of Your income, Katie leaving and a lot of it's going to be coming back to you and you'll be able to build this emergency fund up back very, very quickly. And then beyond that, you can start investing. Hold on, stay on the line. Katie and Emily's going to pick up and we're going to put you guys through Financial Peace University. It's our nine lesson course and give you every dollar premium. So when you guys start looking at numbers today, you can start building out your first budgets. Thanks for the call, Katie. We're cheering you guys on. So just imagine you look up a year from now and everything that you wanted to accomplish, you accomplish. Because when you want to do something, it doesn't just happen by chance. You have to be motivated. You have to have a plan to really get there and be organized. That's why we are so excited about the new 2025 Ramsey goal planner. It is here and myself and Jade Warshaw and our friend Dr. John Deloney, we have content in there for you. We're going to walk you through different months talking about your money, talking about your spiritual life, your relationships and within it, it features so much you guys. It has a month and weekly calendar stickers, a vision board, goal setting system and all of it. So this can be yours today for 49.97 and don't wait because it has been selling so fast. Yeah, and these sell out because we only order a certain quantity. Quantity because once 20, 25 hits people, you know, they're not buying planners. So we have a limited availability so make sure to get it. And it's been fantastic. So go to ramseysolutions.com store or click the link in the description if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. Up next we have Vanessa in Seattle. Hey Vanessa, welcome to the show.

[John Deloney]

Hey, thank you for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so I'm just going to dive right in. So I'm a 54 year old woman. I live in the Seattle area. I am not working right now. I'm at the tail end of a bankruptcy. I was married and there was just too much debt. I couldn't, there was no way that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I could get out of that.

[John Deloney]

So I did file bankruptcy. It just discharged. And so there's that having, you know, just starting over with credit. I, I am not going to have a place to live as of December. The end of December. The owners of the home that I've been living in have decided to sell. It's, it has been an absolute shock because my ex husband completely Remodeled the inside. And I thought for sure, you know, I'd have some time here. Oh, wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

Gosh, you've had a lot, Vanessa.

[John Deloney]

I have a lot going on in my. Yes, yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm so sorry. Divorce and the bankruptcy and a living situation that up in the air.

[George Camel]

And you said your ex husband remodeled the inside of the rental house?

[John Deloney]

He did. Of a rental, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

When y' all were living there together?

[John Deloney]

We were for four months, and then he moved out. It was an abusive marriage, so it took me a long time to get out of that, but I did, you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Know, proud of you.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, I appreciate that. So I was making anywhere between 15 and 18,000 with an eBay business while I was married. He was the primary. You know, he had the job. He was bringing in very good money. But we were renting in the previous house we were at for nine years. So this is my third marriage. I just want to say that if. If I knew that I was going to be here, I would already have a house, but it just didn't work out that way, so.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

So what.

[Rachel Cruze]

What are you doing right now, Vanessa, for. How are you paying your rent right now? How are you paying for expenses?

[John Deloney]

Well, I was living off my savings, and then I lost. On top of everything, I lost my daughter. It was very sudden. She. She died. She was 26.

[George Camel]

I'm sorry.

[John Deloney]

I know there's so much going on, so. That just killed me. I mean, it so hard, so horrible, you know, and there's nothing like losing a child.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's horrible.

[Rachel Cruze]

I can't even imagine.

[John Deloney]

So it's been hard, you know, to work, to concentrate on ebay, to do anything, really. I mean, it's just completely debilitated and just from everything.

[Rachel Cruze]

So did you get anything out of the. Out of the divorce?

[John Deloney]

I did, and I've been living on that last three years. Let's see. So I was receiving maintenance, and then I. I had about 50,000 saved.

[Rachel Cruze]

So what's that down to now?

[John Deloney]

It's down to zero. However, there is some good news. I just inherited $30,000.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

So I need to know what to do with my $30,000. I don't have any debt other than the car payment. I have a car payment that's 300amonth.

[George Camel]

And how much do you owe on the car? What's the total amount you owe on the car?

[John Deloney]

I owe about 18,000 on that. Okay, so 18 to 20. It's. It might be about 20 with the payoff.

[George Camel]

Fine. Okay, so.

[John Deloney]

But if I take that. Yeah, let us.

[Rachel Cruze]

Let Us.

[George Camel]

Let us give you some help here.

[Rachel Cruze]

And real quick, will you just give me a quick timeline? These are big. These are big things that have happened. Will you, will you just kind of walk me through really quickly, really quickly, when the divorce happened, the loss of your daughter and the bankruptcy. When did all this play out?

[John Deloney]

Okay, so the bankruptcy was. It just discharged. So that was 90 days. It's been about four months. Losing my daughter happened. It was last January, so it's been a. It's been a year and a half.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Okay.

[John Deloney]

And my divorce, we separated after we moved into this home, which was November of 2021. So he moved out in April of 2022.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

So since then I have been living off of what I have, what I got, what I received from that.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's good. I just want to know because, I mean, these are like three very traumatic things that have occurred. So I just didn't know how timeline wise. Because I think for you, Vanessa, this, I mean, you're, you're the biggest glaring light that I see is, is the income side of not. Because as you experience with the 50,000, if you continue to live on savings and you're not, you know, replacing that with other income, it eventually dwindles. And that's what you've experienced. And so making sure that this $30,000 does not dwindle. And the only way to really do that is to be able to be bringing in some income, which I know is.

[John Deloney]

So. Sorry.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, you're good. Go ahead.

[John Deloney]

Okay, so I. I've been working on my master's degree. I was busy with that in art history. Now what I'm going to do with that, I have no idea. I mean, people history. What are you going to art History? Yeah, because I love, I just love it. I love architecture, art.

[George Camel]

What did you plan to do with it when you got it?

[Rachel Cruze]

And. Yeah, that. And how are you paying for it?

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know.

[John Deloney]

May maybe teach. I was, I was paying for my, my education as I went. So I still have some. I have some loans, I think. Oh, I'm not sure exactly. Yeah, I have student. I wasn't able to fight. You can't file on those, so I can't.

[George Camel]

Okay, so let's get. We gotta, we gotta get organized and we gotta get a game plan going forward. Right now is not the time to those classes because you can't afford to pay for them and you still have some existing student loan debt. It sounds like you've got the 18,000 for this car. What I believe your Homework should be. And I think Rachel probably agree is first things first is you got to get a job.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And a job.

[Rachel Cruze]

And this is, and you know, this is Target, Vanessa. I mean this is making 18 an hour at Walmart. I mean this is doing what you can because the decisions so far are not panning out in reality for you. Right. An art history degree. Well, I'm going to go get a master's, but I don't know what I want to do with it. Right. So I want to make sure the ROI on your time is realistic and, and so being able just to get something in, I think it'll be good for you, Vanessa. I think there's going to be a level of dignity and confidence of you going and earning your own money that's going to be huge. So for the time being, I mean it would be tomorrow I would be out and just retail whatever you can just to be getting an income in and then eventually figuring out what does Vanessa want to do and what can Vanessa do to support herself and be able to, you know, advance throughout life. You know, you're, you're in your 50s and there's, you know, there's still a lot to go. Yeah. A great life to live and I want you to be able to do that. But the steps would be number one, finding a job tomorrow, any job. And I would be, I would be working like crazy. I think my goal would be not to touch the 30 000.

[George Camel]

That would be the goal.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I think selling the car is probably in.

[George Camel]

The car is big because you don't.

[Rachel Cruze]

Need an eighteen thousand dollar car, Vanessa. You need a six thousand dollars car.

[George Camel]

And then third, I'd say, you know that, you know that the time is coming where you won't be living in this, this house anymore. So let's start doing research on a place that we can live that's less expensive. Possibly. Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

A studio apartment maybe just tiny. I mean anything. Again, it's going to be uncomfortable for a little bit. But I think making some of these wiser, more conservative decisions is going to give you some bandwidth and some margin.

[George Camel]

You need it. Yes.

[John Deloney]

The car might be a little bit tricky and the reason is because I can kept that through the bankruptcy and then just negotiated the interest rate. So if I let that go, then it's going to hit my credit, which I want squeaky clean from here forward. Possibly. Yeah, I pro. I probably could sell it at. Because. Yeah, that's what we're talking about.

[George Camel]

Yeah, we're talking about you, you looking on Kelley Blue Book to start and seeing what it's worth and then you selling it and buying something cheaper in cash. Not a pain.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep, that's right. Okay, Vanessa, that's a lot. Why don't you hang on the line. Christian will pick up and we'll get you with a Ramsey coach to help you. Well, if you're listening on radio, keep on listening. But if you are on YouTube or podcast, make sure to go download the Ramsey show app to get the third hour there. Thanks to everyone in the booth. Thank you, Jade Warshaw and we will see you soon. America.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Rachel Cruze]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with my friend and best selling author Jade Warshaw and we are here in to help you out, America. You can give us a call at 888-825-5225 and we'll answer your questions about money, about life, life, relationships, career. Give us a call up first. We have John in Houston. Hey John, welcome to the show.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hello. Welcome. Thanks for having. Or thanks for having me, I guess.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely, yes, for sure. How can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I, I filed for divorce from my wife about a month ago. Lots have transpired since. We're, we're kind of trying to maybe make it work. Going to marriage counseling in the interim of all this. We kind of split our finances about two or three months ago due to her spending and daughter. That's a long story. So fast forward to this. Last week I got a bonus from work, a $30,000 bonus. By the time it was put into bank, it was about 24,000. I currently owe $11,000 on the credit card. Most of that is for the divorce attorney. And then the other issue I have is I have during COVID we had two credit cards with Chase that we quit paying because we lost our jobs and obviously employed now. But there's a lawsuit pending against Me. And those are about $26,000 each. So I don't know what to do with this bonus money. 1. I don't know if I should tell the wife or not because we're not divorced. We're trying to work that. That's part of it. But the other part is, do I keep the cash and try to settle with Chase? Do I pay off the current credit card that I have so I can get you back to debt free? Sort of. Ish. Other than my home, just not real.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure, sure. Yep. Absolutely. What. Any other money saved?

[Jade Warshaw]

I have just a couple thousand dollars in the bank. Nothing. Nothing major.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Okay.

[George Camel]

Buy a couple. Like six or like, like two.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like two.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[George Camel]

So the bonus is 3,000. Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, no, the bonus is 24,000.

[George Camel]

24,000. My hearing is off today. Okay. So what do you think you can settle these Chase cars for? Have you kind of floated it out there to them?

[Jade Warshaw]

I talked to the debt attorney that I filed the lawsuits. He said they may be a 25,000 or a 25% reduction.

[John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So he's thinking they could probably settle for about 20,000 each. That'd be a total of 40.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

So there are two separate cases. So I don't. One's coming up the 1st of September and the other one I don't have a date on yet.

[George Camel]

Okay, so the one coming up the 1st of September, if you can settle it. I think there's part of this since it's already like gone to court. Like it's already, you know, it's progressed to the point where you're gonna have to pay something. I do think there's a smart part that would hold on to that money and not put it on the. The other eleven thousand dollar debt because you know this is coming and you know you're going to be on the hook for paying, whether it's the full sum or, you know, a reduced amount.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

So. Yeah, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then I guess just go ahead.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, I was going to say yes, so. And anything, obviously you get in that lawsuit, having. Having writing, and I, and I would tell them, hey, I have $24,000. Well, I guess there are separate lawsuits, you were saying?

[Jade Warshaw]

Correct.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, yep. So I think getting them down as much as possible, obviously would be the goal. And ideally not going into collections and all of that, that you kind of just take care of it.

[George Camel]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Cruze]

And if that's the case, then, yeah, you have 4,000. When does the other lawsuit hit? This one? September. Do you know when the other one will be?

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know. I don't know. I mean they've already kind of hit. This is obviously progressive. So now it's like going to the trial thing and all this other stuff where I'm gonna have to pay Chase. It's already been on my credit. Click. All that stuff's already kind of happened.

[Rachel Cruze]

As long as it's.

[George Camel]

Oh, sorry.

[Rachel Cruze]

Was it all under your. Is your ex or I guess she's not your ex wife. It's your wife's name attached to this as well?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, they were all mine. They were cards that I had prior to our marriage and we've always done good. And then we spent a bunch of money and then we tried to get out of debt and then we were doing okay. And then Covid hit. We both literally lost our jobs in a week. And it was pay mortgage and feed our children or pay this credit card. Well, we chose a home and children.

[Rachel Cruze]

As you should.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much are you making a year, John?

[Jade Warshaw]

I bring in, my base salary is 104 and my bonuses are in the 60 to 80 thousand dollar range annually.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, and with her, what does, what does she make?

[Jade Warshaw]

It varies. We own a small business, a food truck business. So she brings in roughly, I would say seven, 60,000 a year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And considering you guys are somewhat separated, I don't know if you, if it's, you know, through legal means or not. Have, have you guys separated your finances?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, we did that about two or three months prior and that was kind of her like final straw for us, but.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Her spending was really the issue for me. So.

[George Camel]

Okay, so these three accounts, are these the only debts that you're on the hook for? Is there a car? Is there anything else?

[Jade Warshaw]

Because there, there is a Cadillac that we, that we purchased together. That's her car, not my car. So in the divorce she would get the car.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Kind of the thing. She would get the car payment. I have a truck. It's paid for. Other than if we were divorced today, the only debt I would have would be the 2 Chase and the $11,000 credit card.

[George Camel]

Okay. And. But in. But you're making, you know, on a good year, 180 plus a year. Yeah, correct. So I mean when I look at these debts and knowing that one of them is going to be settled, you should have this knocked out like lickety split. What's this? What's your living situation?

[Jade Warshaw]

Currently living is. She moved out Thursday, so literally just two days ago she moved out. She's living with a friend and her two kids. And I'M living in my house with.

[George Camel]

My two kids and what was her second.

[Rachel Cruze]

Second marriage then for both of you?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And are you able to cover the mortgage in a way that it's no more than 25% of your take home without her income added to it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Mortgage is $3,000 a month, so that's not a problem.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, that's great. Yep. So, yeah. So to answer your question of why you called in, for sure it would. Yeah, I would take the one that had the lawsuit attached to it, go ahead and knock that out. And then like Jade's saying, I mean, I would cut back on. On everything until you get this mess cleaned up. And then I think you do have this kind of fresh start. But I also, I'm cheering on for you guys. You know, that, that possibly. I heard a little bit of hope there at the beginning of the call. Yeah. That you guys can. Yeah, I think, think you do. Do some work, do some counseling, therapy. And I pray that it is reconciled. I think that's always the best hope for, for this. We never want to see, you know, marriages torn apart. And he said part of it was because of her spending. But we do see money issues play into that. But always, you guys remember that those money issues usually is an indicator of something else going on underneath. And that's why having, you know, professionals on your side to, to really dig in to know why. I mean, there we are complex people, and the way we, whether it's medicate or whatever it may be, our habits come out sideways. And when you can get to the root of that, of who you are as a person, that's really a beautiful thing. So, John, we're cheering you guys on. I really do hope that there's reconciliation, but just from the, the money standpoint on your side, I think you can have a lot of this cleaned up really quickly. So I'm thankful you got. Got back on your feet job wise since COVID because I know that was a pain point for a lot of people.

[George Camel]

Absolutely. No, I feel like today, Rachel, we saw a big theme of divorce, which is tough and it's so difficult, but I think it just drives home the point even more. Like I've heard Dave say it, marriages need maintenance. Like you need that regular. The same way you bring your car in for a checkup up, you go to the doctor for a physical every year. Like, you need a regular rhythm of, let's go see a counselor. Like, let's just make sure everything's good and let's make sure you know, premarital counsel, like all those things that are checks and balances to make sure that you're operating at an optimal.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep.

[George Camel]

Safe level. Right. In your marriage.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. And we have Dr. John Deloney here on our team, you guys. So check out his content and books because it's kind of in this whole realm of life. It's a. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Does having more money and less stress sound nice but feel impossible? Well, in my brand new book, Breaking Free From Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it. You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out, from credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps. So if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead. You can get breaking free from broke [e-mail] store. That's ramseysolutions.com store.

[Rachel Cruze]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Up next, we have Kashim in Portland, Oregon. Hi, welcome to the show.

[John Deloney]

Hi, Rachel.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank you so much for taking the call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

Appreciate it. Been watching Dave Ramsey for the longest time and I love the show and everything that Dave does and you as well.

[Rachel Cruze]

Thank you.

[John Deloney]

My question is.

[Jade Warshaw]

We make good money. My brother and I, we run an assisted living and we have paid off all our consumer debt. No car loans, no student loans. We have invested into real estate and we have about six properties. But for some reason, you know, it still feels like we are paycheck to paycheck because everything that we make we invested back into real estate. And then I was wondering, should we maybe stop investing and start paying off like we did with our consumer debt, the cars and student loans pay off these properties and then once all of all of those properties are paid off, then maybe start investing again with the cash that we will have.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, how much are you guys making a year income wise? For you?

[Jade Warshaw]

Together, we make probably about 400,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so do you take 200 and he takes 200.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And how much debt is on the six properties? Total?

[Jade Warshaw]

It's about 2, 2.5 million.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And also, yeah, sorry, one more thing. We have for 401k and I know also we've been investing in 401k for the past two years. So we're thinking maybe we need to stop that. We do the Mac. We max it out for the past two years for both of us.

[Rachel Cruze]

What's your full time job?

[Jade Warshaw]

So running. That's easy living it's our own business.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Okay, that's right. You said that.

[George Camel]

Okay, so just to clarify, all of it together, the income from the assisted living. The income from the properties is the 400,000. Right. Not just the properties.

[Jade Warshaw]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

So could you. I mean, I'm thinking, you know, to relieve some of the pressure, because you said you feel like you're still living paycheck to paycheck and, you know, making 200 grand if you're. Yeah. If you're making mortgage payments, you have renters and all the six.

[Jade Warshaw]

We do, yeah. The properties are all cash flowing, but I mean, whatever we make in the business, save it up, and then we just go and buy another property.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So I would. I would. Yep. So I would pause, maybe even go a step or two backwards, possibly just to give you some breathing room. So instead of going and continuing to invest in these properties and taking leverage out on all of them, that's what's causing you to feel so tied down or. Right. Like, with no margin. So I would take some of the. That income, throw it at some of these properties to pay it off faster, and I would cash flow it. So that may even mean Kashim to, you know, list out the six and say, hey, maybe we sell two. You know, the. The equity from the two could help pay for, you know, pay down some of the. The other three and our cash flow. Because, you know, we don't mind having real estate. I think it's a great opportunity. But when you are leveraged in it and you continue to leveraging in it, it. It's gonna eventually eat up your income. Right. Because it's not gonna be perfect. But having that paid for income, when the income comes in from the rentals and it's all yours, then suddenly you feel like, oh, we're making the money that I feel like we should be making. Right. I mean, you have $2.5 million worth of rental properties. You should feel like we're doing really good, but it's. It's not. It's not working out that way.

[Jade Warshaw]

No. Yeah. It seems like, you know, on the paper, we have a lot, but then, you know, kind of cash broke.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. So. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I would. I would free up. I would be okay with you keeping a couple of them, you know, knowing that, hey, we're gonna. We're gonna snowball this and pay them off quickly because. Did you guys get them a few years ago or have you gotten them recently?

[Jade Warshaw]

A few years ago, we started back in, like 2022, and then the last one we just purchased this year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. So I would. I would stop purchasing and again, yeah, I would. I would sell a couple of them, but I would list them out and say, hey, here's what they're worth. Here's what we owe on them. What's smart to do this? And are you doing this all with your brother?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Are both of your names on the. On the notes?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so would that be something that he's willing to do as well?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, actually, he's sitting here in the. Listening to. We. We started together. We're doing things, you know, together. Actually, he's the one that got on the phone and calling to the show, actually.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Okay. Well, we have a little bit of time. Kashima, I would be interested. Do you. Do you have the numbers off the top of your head of what each property is worth and how much you owe on them?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, I can look it up. And also. And regarding the 401k, should we keep investing into that?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, I would.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, as you said, positive.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, no, I would. Yeah, I would keep going because that's going to be. That's going to be a consistent. Yep.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you say you wanted the.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Let's go through them. Let's go through them one by one.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So first one is candle, we owe 150, and then another one is a house.

[George Camel]

What's the one that's one before you go? The one that's 150. What could you sell it for?

[Jade Warshaw]

Probably like 250, 260.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, perfect. Keep going.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then another one is. We owe 230. That one is about 4:10, 4:20 right now.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then we have a candle, we owe 450, and that one is about 600.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then we have another condo or a duplex. Duplex. We owe 340, and that one is like five.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then we have our primary houses, but not selling those again.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Now, on the primary mortgages, you. You are the only person on your mortgage, and he's the only person on his mortgage. Right? Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Okay. So, I mean, Rachel, I. I know what I'm thinking right off the bat.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. I mean, I'm. I'm probably, you know. And again, you can rearrange some of these. I would take the ones that are probably in better condition, less hassle, ones that are in better part of the city that you can rent out, that's more stable, but you could sell two of these, you know, rearrange some of the numbers. Kashiman. And have two paid for properties there. And I would. And I, I know you and your brother are doing this together, but my advice, you probably won't take it because she was. Is to do it, you know, individually. I think when you, you have a partner in all of this and you both own it, it can get really messy really fast. But that's just my two cents. But.

[George Camel]

Well, there's part of that because here's the thing. If you were in this deal alone, my first thing would be like, hey, okay, for instance, property number three, it's a duplex. I don't know what side of town it's in, but I'm thinking, okay, it's more work to rent it out. It's two places and you owe the most on it and the gain is pretty decent. So I'm like, okay, I'd probably go for that one first, just, just based on little knowledge here. But I'd want to then take that money and pay off my personal residence before I reach over and do properties. But since you're in this with your brother, it doesn't necessarily work that way. So that's kind of just one of the ways that it muddies the water a little bit on this. But that being said, you could still reach over. You could pay off the one. Property number two, probably, if you made that sale. And then property number four, if you sold it and you cleared out property number one. There's a lot of options.

[Rachel Cruze]

There's a lot of options. Yeah. So, yeah, I think you could make one or two moves here. And I think what that would do again is if you have two paid for properties, you're getting rental income, and then you and your wife say, hey, our next goal is to pay off our primary home. Because how much do you owe on your primary?

[Jade Warshaw]

About 340.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's worth about 737 40. We bought it back in 2017.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, that's great. Yeah. So, yeah, you can go down there or if you want to go real crazy, which I don't think you'll probably will, you could sell everything and put some of this towards, towards your primary. But, but again, I think you and your brother can need to sit down and just say, hey, what, what are the, you know, the properties that we're confident in, and I think you can keep, you know, maybe two of them, sell to, rearrange some of this. And I think it's going to relieve it because you guys are kind of playing the game. And Kashim, you guys are smart. So Honestly, at the end of the day, once you have all this kind of cleaned up and, and you guys are making a better income income, then take your time and save because some of these, you know, you bought for 150. There's still deals out there. I mean, you can still go and, and you know, buy something crappy and fix it up, put some money into it and rent it. So that's still a possibility. But just doing it with cash is going to give you less stress, which is what we want for you. Thanks for the.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home. Scared doesn't even begin to cover it. But I got mad enough to change. I started using God's and grandma's ways of handling money. That journey became the total Money Makeover, a plan everyday people can use to take control of their money. Millions have changed their following the plan in this book and found hope. Start your makeover [e-mail] store.

[Rachel Cruze]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're going to the phones and we have Jake in Houston calling next. Hey, Jake, welcome to the show.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, how are you guys doing today?

[Rachel Cruze]

We're doing great. How can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

So I have a chronic condition and I'm currently on baby step six but I do not have any life insurance for my wife and family and I'm having trouble getting life insurance and so I'm wondering if I should be putting money aside since I don't have the life insurance option.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. What's the condition? Can I ask?

[Jade Warshaw]

I'd really rather not say that. The doctor says I have about 10 more years of working done before I'd be really in a critical position.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm so sorry.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's great. Either healed in this life or the next, so.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's right. Well, you've put yourself in a really good position with your family, so kudos to you there and I know they're going to be very grateful. The fact that you're in baby step six is amazing. So that tells me that you don't have debt. You guys have got a significant level of savings, which is nice. And I'm guessing you've been investing all this time. Can I ask, like, do you have a nest debt?

[Jade Warshaw]

We do. We have a $1.4 million nest egg.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

We make about 180,000 base pay and then about 150,000 bonuses.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

So great income. But all of our money is in retirement accounts.

[George Camel]

And how old are you and your wife?

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm 39 and my wife is 42.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Do you guys have kids?

[Jade Warshaw]

I have one child, yes.

[John Deloney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

What is, is she working or is she staying home?

[Jade Warshaw]

She stays at home.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, how much do you guys have left on the house to pay off?

[Jade Warshaw]

340,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

340. Okay.

[George Camel]

And what's your timeline on paying off the house? When you've talked to with your wife, when do you think it'll be done?

[Jade Warshaw]

About three years if we put all of our excess income towards the house.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so these about seven years where I've got to be totally ready for medical and retirement.

[George Camel]

You said you've got seven years until you feel like you need to be totally ready. Is that what you said?

[Jade Warshaw]

10 years total. If it takes me 3 years to pay off the house now, then 7 years after that to save for everything else.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Will you be able to bring in, I know you said, well you'll have to stop work in probably two years. Years. Does that mean physically going to a location or will you still be bringing an income at that point or probably not stopping working?

[Jade Warshaw]

10 years. I'm sorry.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, 10 years.

[George Camel]

I thought you said two.

[Jade Warshaw]

10. 10 years.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, okay.

[George Camel]

That's way I'm, I'm happy to hear that. Okay, so the good news is, you know, you, the first problem was, hey, I don't have life insurance. But the good news is you're going to be self insurable. You, you've set, you and your, your wife have set your family up in a really, really great way. Because the thought here is in that I'm not even running any numbers. I just know that a lump sum is going to double every seven years and the point that you already have 1.4 million and then there's this 10 year horizon and you know you're making over $300,000 a year and the house is going to pay it off. You're not going to have a payment in the world. And so I think that your wife is going to be okay. What I would do is I'd probably sit down with a smartvestor pro because I want to make sure to your point that she's able to access the money she needs even if it's before her being 59 and a half.

[Jade Warshaw]

Correct?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Because I'm thinking if you know, 10 years from now she will be, yeah, 52. So there'll be about that seven year gap. But I do wonder, Jake, because you guys are making such great money, do you foresee yourself making around that 300 330,000 a year for the next 10 years if not going up or do you see it going down at all because of health issues?

[Jade Warshaw]

It'll continue to go up. So luckily I am an engineer so I can work remotely or I have.

[Rachel Cruze]

All the options to do. Yeah. So if you think about Jake, if you guys pay off this home in three years, which is what I would do, you would have seven years left of working, of making that amount of money. You guys could stash away so much just in a high yield savings account, you know, that she could. That you guys can live off of after you stop working for that time that 7ish years between retirement age and then once you guys hit that age, you'll be able to access. Yeah, I mean like you said, it's gonna be over three, four. It'll be $4 million by that point.

[George Camel]

Oh yeah. And a Smartvestor Pro is going to help you figure out like that Best bridge, is it a high yield savings? Is it a brokerage account? Is it another vehicle that you're able to get to that money but it can also still have some, some gain on it. A decent amount of gain. Yeah. Hey, I hate that this situation is what it is, but you're a great dad and a great husband for setting this up with your family.

[John Deloney]

Thank you.

[George Camel]

Truly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Wow. Jake, thank you for calling. If you stay on the line, Christian is going to pick up and maybe we can hook you up. Yeah. With a Smartvestor Pro and we'll help you show you like exactly where to look, get a couple of names so you can call them and kind of just see who you're comfortable with. But I'm with Jade. I'm praying. Nothing. I pray for healing on this side of heaven for you and your family. And I'm so sorry. And you know, it's one of those things that when life there are things we just, we can't control. You know, health is for sure one of those. And on this show we can it. We get that call a lot of just, you know, things happen and one of the best ways, it doesn't make it better, but it does bring a level of peace in an area of life of when you have your money under control. And so that's.

[George Camel]

And when you've set your family up that worst case scenario. Yes, I know everything's covered. And I mean these are the reasons that we teach. You need a will, you need life insurance, you gotta, you gotta pay off your debt you've got. Because no one predicts these things that's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right. Nope.

[George Camel]

You know, no one predicts it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Oh, Jake, we're praying for you and your family. Thanks. I'm so glad you called. I hope that helped. Up next, we have Ken in Wichita. Hey, Ken. Welcome to the show.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, Rachel. Appreciate all that you, your dad and the Ramsay personalities do. You guys are a true blessing. Had a question today. Hoping you could pressure test something regarding my pension. So my, my wife and I are FPU grads debt free, including the house. I was laid off about three weeks ago. I'm 55 and since I'll be separating from the company, I can start taking the pension now. And if I do that and I plug those numbers into Excel, it seems to me like I'd be crazy to not start taking it at 55 versus waiting until 62 even though the numbers are higher. Because. Because my calculation show be 19 years for it to catch up. If I wait till 62 versus taking it now and investing it at 8%, like I would assume Dave would say, it never catches up. So am I crazy to start taking it at 55 versus waiting until 62?

[Rachel Cruze]

No, I don't think you're. I don't think you're crazy. And especially if you do something with that money that helps, you know what I mean, to, to grow it right? So even if you put it somewhere that you're going to be making more than if it sits in that pension, I think that's ideal. So how are you? Do you guys need it to live off of or you're just thinking because of the math, might as well take it now because we'll be able to, to get more out of it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, totally. A math situation. Obviously I've got to go find another job, but we're in good shape on that. I'm employable and we'll do that. But just talking to some peers that are in the same situation from this layoff, they were like, hey, why would you take it now? But I'm just, I'm an Excel guy. So I plugged it in there and then use the investment calculator at 8%. And I'm just like, man, because you're.

[Rachel Cruze]

Thinking you're going to turn around and reinvest that money. Is that what you're thinking?

[Jade Warshaw]

True, that's the plan. But even if you don't, just the raw numbers, the seven years, in order to make up that seven years of withdrawals, it would take 19 years and put me at like 81 before it would catch up. If I started taking it at 62. So I just want to make sure I wasn't missing something. I know the taxes might be a little bit different when I'm retired, that type of thing, but it just seems like take it now is. Is mathematically the way to go. And I've always heard Dave say, you know, if the pension, you know, it's not yours until it's yours. So, yeah, that's the thing in the hopper Tech.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right. Yeah. The good thing about it is it puts you back in control of what you do with it, even if you're going to go back and reinvest it. And the truth is, too, Ken, you've done such a great job that, I mean, you guys are completely debt free. Like, if you take it now or you take it six years, you're going to be okay.

[George Camel]

You know what I mean?

[Rachel Cruze]

Like, I don't think you're going to make this dire mistake, but anytime you can get money, even in a lump sum, in some situations, putting it back in your control, you're usually better off than leaving it somewhere else. So I hope that helps. Thanks, Ken, for the call, Sam.

[Jade Warshaw]

Foreign.

[Rachel Cruze]

Timothy 6, 18. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. Shonda Rhyme says, be a doer, not a dreamer.

[George Camel]

Good deal.

[Rachel Cruze]

I appreciate that. Put some stuff into action, people. Put some stuff into action.

[George Camel]

I know that's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

All right, going to the phones, we have Sarah in Fort Myers. Hey, Sarah. Welcome to the show.

[John Deloney]

Hi, ladies. Thanks so much for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[John Deloney]

So I'm looking for a bit of direction. The long story short is I just found the Ramsey show, the podcast, a couple months ago when I was pregnant with my first child. Yay.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Congratulations.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, thank you. He's two months old now, and he's absolutely beautiful. My question is, when I was six months pregnant, my husband was laid off from his job, which was extremely stressful. We had a lot of medical complications with my pregnancy and then with the delivery as well. And when he was laid off, we ended up having to pay an arm and a leg to extend our insurance policy through the former employer. So we unfortunately had to burn through what little savings we had to afford that. And now we're pretty much starting from scratch with a newborn, and my husband is really wanting to try to pay off our credit cards and get our debt down. And I'm trying to decide if we should try to put more money towards our emergency fund, which we don't have. Now I'm going back to work kind of part time. So I'm trying to decide if I need to go back full time, should we sell one of our cars? I don't know.

[George Camel]

You've got a lot on your mind online. You've got a lot on your mind. I mean, the good news is you did what we tell people to do when you were pregnant. You stacked up because you don't know what's going to happen. And so you went into stork mode and you needed what you saved up. And so no guilt on that. You don't need to be feeling bad. Sometimes people go through their emergency fund and they feel guilty that they used it. And I'm like, no, no, that's what it was there for. And so you did. Right. But now that the storm is over and the baby is here, now you can get back onto the baby steps and yeah, it's getting that thousand dollars back saved again. And you know, to your husband's point, whatever the smallest debt is, if it's the credit cards, how much debt do you guys have?

[John Deloney]

Well, we have two car loans all together. Our debt is probably between 35 and 40 between the two cars and then some credit card and then of course, the medical.

[George Camel]

So tell me the real numbers so we can really see.

[John Deloney]

Yeah. So on his car we owe about 14,000. My car we owe about 21, I believe.

[Rachel Cruze]

21.

[John Deloney]

His car just. Yeah, 21,000. We just started having some mechanical issues with his car. So we were considering selling that because was it is worth Right. About what we owe on it. We thought about going down to one car. Yeah. Which we could do. It would be a challenge, but we could do it. I love that with the baby, it's a little tricky, but we could try to find a way. The hard part is my husband's job. He's really not loving it. He's exhausted emotionally from the pregnancy and all the medical stuff that I went through. He. Sorry. He was really scared. It was a lot handle. And now he's considering changing careers because he just, he's. He absolutely hates the field that he's in. So we're on this little bit instability storm right now. I would press cash is really hard.

[George Camel]

I would press pause for a second because you guys have just come through a unknown, difficult season. Right. It was the layoff, then the baby came, then there was no insurance.

[John Deloney]

So.

[George Camel]

So there's part of this where I would love to create just a quick sense of like we're getting our bearings, we've got our bearings before we add another big change into the mix. Because, yeah, that would have mean he just got this new job, right?

[John Deloney]

Yeah, he's, he's. We've only just been on the insurance this month for the new place. Yeah, he had to wait, like, 90 days or something.

[George Camel]

And don't get me wrong, like, I'm all for happy. I'm all for people being happy in their work, but we need to just cool out for a second. Like, let's get this baby home. Let's get our heads around what the financial picture is, and then that can decide what we need to do going forward. Because, and I mean, I, I, I get it. Everybody wants to be happy at work, but there could be a period of time where he's like, I'm doing this because I need to do this to get the family on good footing, and then I'll be able to go and, and pursue more of what I want to do. So the 14,000 car, 21,000 car.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, I was going to just add to that, Sarah, that usually when there's some level of, like, a traumatic experience, which it kind of sounds like y' all walk through, don't make knee jerk reactions. And we say this if someone's had a death close to them or, you know, if something big happens in life that really kind of takes you out emotionally, making big moves in life is not smart. So waiting before he quits and all of this, like, I, I would. So I echo Jay for sure. And for you guys. Yeah, that, because. How much is he making now?

[John Deloney]

He makes about 85. But he's, I'm not so much concerned about him quitting. He's, he's totally in the mindset of, I need to provide for my family. I'll do what I have to do.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Plus, he wouldn't quit until he had something else lined up, Right?

[John Deloney]

Exactly.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[John Deloney]

He's afraid that they're gonna let him go again. I think he's got a little bit of PTSD from being laid off previously, which wasn't any fault of his. But the company that he's at now, like, the new job that was supposed to kind of stabilize, it's, it's not really a good fit.

[George Camel]

What type of work is it?

[John Deloney]

I'm sorry?

[George Camel]

What type of work does he do?

[John Deloney]

He works in accounting and financial analyst positions, mostly for home builders and construction firms. And being the numbers guy, he's tracking all the mistakes. He finds a lot of things that are wrong, and everybody thinks he's a bad guy. And it's just, just. It's just kind of the way that the industry goes, I think.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, even more reason then for you guys to really get laser focused on this debt. Cuz that's what's creating instability and a lot of risk in your life. So aside from the cars, which I love the idea if you can break even on one of these, even if you go and you buy something a lot cheaper in cash, I like that idea. If having a one car family doesn't work. But back to your initial question. Yeah, up until something does happen, right now I think we're operating on a lot of fear and what if. But the truth is you're home, the baby's healthy, he's got a job, and right now nothing's happening. So I would say, okay, let's push pause on the baby steps. Get that thousand there. Do you have any more money left in savings above a thousand?

[John Deloney]

Not really.

[George Camel]

Okay, that's fine.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, he, he has a Roth I think he set up a few years ago that's got a little bit in it.

[George Camel]

No, don't touch that. I mean liquid savings. Okay.

[John Deloney]

No.

[George Camel]

So, yeah, you're listing them smallest to largest and you guys are getting on the same page. You're sitting down tonight and going, okay, we've been through a lot. It's time for us to make this right. We've got a family now. Let's clean up our mess and let's decide that moving forward. We're gonna move methodically, we're gonna make decisions together. We're going to get out of debt and I mean, kudos to you. Cheers on a brand new life.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, that's right.

[John Deloney]

Yeah, it's a mixture. We're absolutely in love with our baby boy. He's healthy, praise God. It was a really stressful time getting through all those issues, so we're thankful. But we're also trying to find a way to start looking up. You know, it just seems like one thing after another and then the car breaks, you know, and then, you know, the boss doesn't like him or, you know, whatever. It just seems one thing after another. So I'm just kind of looking for some peace of mind for a few weeks at least.

[Rachel Cruze]

For sure. Yeah. And you'll find too, Sarah, you know, life in general, and then you throw kids in the mix and this is. It magnifies this too. But it, it's. If it does, it can feel like seasons of life. It's like two steps forward, three steps back. One step forward, two steps back. Oh my gosh and then. And then a rhythm. Another season hits and it's like, wow, this is a peaceful season and we're thankful for this. And then something else happens. Right. But it's just. It is the rhythm of life and you guys are experiencing that, but in big ways. I mean, kids, job, I mean, these are big adult things. Right. That you, that you feel. So I think getting some control around the money, I think is going to give you a level of peace, even if the debt is still there. Just being on the same page with your husband, knowing here's how much we're spending on groceries, here's what, like there's just a plan in place and it.

[George Camel]

Allows you to pour that energy into something.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, that's right. Into something else. Yep. For sure. And I do. And I. And we hear you loud and clear. And I think a goal would eventually be for him to be in a great environment, working. Yeah. You don't want to work for a jerk, you know, for so long. So we're all about that too.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So great. Well, thanks for the call, Sarah. We really appreciate it. Thanks to all the gentlemen in the booth. Thank you, Jade, to being a great co host and thank you, America, for listening. Remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sam.