Don’t Let a Lack of Boundaries Turn Into a Money Crisis

Summary

The Ramsey Show — Detailed Episode Summary
Title: Don’t Let a Lack of Boundaries Turn Into a Money Crisis
Date: March 17, 2026
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: Ken Coleman

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on how failing to set and enforce healthy boundaries—especially with family and within personal relationships—can quickly spiral into financial crises. Through live caller questions, Dave Ramsey and Ken Coleman deliver direct, practical advice on dealing with money issues related to controlling family members, enabling behavior, debt paydown, and preparing for retirement. Key themes include standing up for financial independence, clear communication between spouses, refusing to enable poor choices (even of loved ones), and the power of consistent discipline in money management.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. The Costs of Lacking Boundaries with Family

a. Relationship Turmoil Due to Parental Control

• Segment (00:43–06:21): Erin, San Francisco
  Erin describes tension with her boyfriend’s mother, who controls his fully paid-off house through a trust and blocks their wish to rent it out and move into Erin’s own home. Even as adults, undue family control creates both emotional and financial friction.

  Quotes:

  • “At some point you have to become a man, my son, and decide if your mommy's going to tell you what to do… you're shacking up with a mommy's boy.” — Dave Ramsey (02:09)
  • “He’s 39. She doesn't get a vote. This is like underdeveloped psychology.” — Dave Ramsey (02:27)

  Insights:

  • Real ownership means decision-making power; if you can’t control property, you don’t truly own it.
  • Until family members (or their partners) find their backbone and set boundaries, their financial futures remain compromised.
  • Don’t further entangle finances or lives (e.g., by moving in together or marrying) until both partners are independent of undue parental influence.

b. Inheritance & Estate Planning with Special Needs Siblings

• Segment (06:21–08:30): Stuart, Little Rock, AR

  • Stuart asks about trusts and probate, given a special-needs brother’s care.
  • Advice: Probate isn’t inherently “evil”; what’s critical is including a special-needs trust in the will to ensure proper care for vulnerable family members, rather than trying to excessively control assets after death or paying for unnecessary trusts.

  Quote:

  • “Probate’s not evil. If you’ve got a good will, you just walk right through it.” — Dave Ramsey (07:38)

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2. Navigating Adult Children’s Responsibility to Parents

a. Supporting Retired/Broke Parents

• Segment (11:00–19:57): Scarlet, Boston

  • Scarlet is a “baby steps millionaire,” but her parents are financially destitute. She fears being obligated to support their lifestyle.
  • Dave firmly rejects the “moral obligation” paradigm (except for your spouse and minor children), emphasizing the difference between helping out of love versus enabling irresponsible behavior.

  Quotes:

  • “No, you have no moral obligation to take care of anyone. There’s no moral obligation that’s not your husband or your children.” — Dave Ramsey (13:13)
  • “If I end up having to put money into or needing to put money in so that you have food, it’s going to involve us selling everything you own. You will be on a budget that I create and you won’t like it.” — Dave Ramsey (15:20)
  • “You’re not entitled to spit.” — Dave Ramsey (16:53)
  • “Honor your parents in the Bible does not mean honoring misbehavior.” — Dave Ramsey (19:14)

  Insights:

  • Help from a child must be accompanied by boundaries: if parents want continued support, it comes with accepting the budget/limits set by the child (the new provider).
  • Be clear and blunt—setting boundaries upfront may prevent future resentment and financial drain.

b. Emotional Boundaries and Guilt

• Ken advises preparing emotionally for the pushback from family and resisting guilt trips—children can say “no” without being “bad.”

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3. Debt, Crisis, and the Path to Freedom

a. Dealing with Crushing Debt & Lack of Savings Late in Life

• Segment (44:20–52:09): Monica, Houston, TX

  • Approaching retirement with $83K in debt and little savings, husband wants a cash-out refinance.
  • Dave derides the “roll all debt into the house” trap (“you’re not paying anything off, you’re just moving it”) and pinpoints their real problem: expensive vehicles and unwillingness to make sacrifices.

  Quotes:

  • “What y’all ought to do is sell both these cars. And not do a cash out refinance.” — Dave Ramsey (48:28)
  • “At 65 and broke, I’d be scared.” — Dave Ramsey (48:07)

  Insights:

  • Don’t use home equity to mask poor money management; without a change in habits, debt will return.
  • Immediate hard choices—selling cars, sacrificing lifestyle—are better than long-term bondage to a new 30-year mortgage at retirement age.

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b. Massive Car Loan Debt

• Segment (24:05–28:44): Nick, Madison, WI

  • At 27, Nick is $17K underwater on a car loan, with high interest and total debts at $123K.
  • “You’re stuck in that car. Selling it is of no benefit… everything’s on [sale]—put the cat on Craigslist and the dog on eBay… no life. You’ve got to lean into this.” — Dave Ramsey (25:54)

  Insights:

  • If the math doesn’t work (car is worth far less than owed), only extreme effort—income, cuts, and hustle—will solve the problem.
  • Don’t look for quick fixes—accept the scale of your mess to create a workable attack plan.

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c. Should I Pay Off My House or Invest the Difference?

• Segment (77:56–80:53): Kyle, Kentucky

  • Dave and Ken debunk the financial planner’s “invest instead of paying off your low-rate mortgage” argument.
  • “You do math in your head, you measure risk in your heart.” — Dave Ramsey (80:53)
  • “This guy’s more worried about what you invest with him than what you end up with.” — Dave Ramsey (81:29)

  Insights:

  • The emotional security and cash flow from a paid-off house trump theoretical higher investment returns—especially when risk and taxes are considered.
  • If you wouldn’t take out a mortgage on a paid-off house to invest, you’re intuitively acknowledging the additional risk.

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4. Dealing with Enabling and Financial Boundaries with In-laws

• Segment (58:18–62:38): Albert, Phoenix, AZ

  • Albert worries that marrying his girlfriend means being financially responsible for her irresponsible parents, who already ask for money.
  • Dave: “If you’re going to start out your marriage trying to fix the in-laws, you have a long life.” (59:30)
  • Both Dave and Ken stress: The boundary isn’t with the in-laws, but with your spouse—be on the same page about how to respond (with “no”) to family requests.

  Practical scripts:

  • “I love you, I want you to win, but I’m not able to enable.” — Dave Ramsey (62:17)
  • “Set boundaries with quality, kind, compassionate language—'We’re not able to do that, it doesn’t match our goals.'” — Dave Ramsey (61:17)

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5. The Power and Methods of Paying Off Debt — Debt Freedom Stories

a. Team Members’ Stories: How Discipline & Teamwork Create Wealth

• Segment (65:28–74:12): Josh & Holly, Ramsey Solutions Employees

  • Paid off $175,000—entire house—at ages 29 and 27, in 18 months.
  • Worked multiple side jobs (Chick-fil-A, Instacart), lived on a strict budget, prioritized gratitude.

  Quotes:

  • “We treated baby step six like baby step two.” — Josh (68:02)
  • “Be grateful throughout the journey; look back at how blessed we are.” — Josh (70:39)
  • “It was fun to lock arms… it feels like we can accomplish anything together.” — Holly (71:13)
  • “Now you’re so worth it!” — Dave Ramsey (72:27)

  Memorable Moment:

  • Their “we’re debt free!” scream in studio (74:12)

• Segment (106:09–112:42): Brandon & Madison, Ramsey Team

  • $118,000 paid off in four years—student loans, cars, credit cards, plus family debt.
  • Sacrifices included late nights, side jobs, giving up restaurant extras (the “queso”).
  • Key: “You got yourself into it, you gotta get yourself out—just do it.” — Brandon (110:39)

  Memorable Moment:

  • The family, with kids, delivers an enthusiastic debt-free scream (112:10)

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6. Reader Q&A: Practical, Situational Money Decisions

a. Profit-sharing in Small Businesses

• Segment (32:42–41:49): Colton from Atlanta
  • Importance of establishing a cultural attitude (kindness, ownership, non-entitlement), paying profit sharing monthly or per project, only from actual profit (after retained earnings).

b. Surprising a Spouse with Financial Transparency

• Segment (85:35–90:13): Josh, Charlotte, NC
  • Make surprises possible by budgeting for “surprise” or “fun” spending, not by hiding side income or opening separate accounts.

c. Evaluating Risk in Rental Property Investment

• Segment (54:22–56:30): Charles from Sacramento
  • Dave strongly warns against using SBA loans to buy rental property, especially out-of-state or overseas, due to high risk and complexity.

d. Getting Unstuck in Life (Addressing Learned Helplessness)

• Segment (95:58–104:23): Adam, Seattle
  • Adam, 26, has struggled to hold a job. Dave and Ken urge building confidence by doing hard work, plugging into positive community, and breaking self-destructive habits.
  • “You need some wins, some confidence, and some dignity… walk away from the stuff that’s been taking it from you.” — Dave Ramsey (103:18)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You’re not entitled to spit.” — Dave Ramsey (16:53)
• “It’s the beauty of small businesses: most are not greedy—they’re like family.” — Dave Ramsey (41:49)
• “If you don’t change anything in your system, you’ll be 70 and back in debt.” — Dave Ramsey (46:24)
• “Homeownership when you don’t want to is a bad idea. When you can’t afford it, it’s a really bad idea.” — Dave Ramsey (30:50)
• “Your financial planner is full of crap.” — Dave Ramsey (80:53)
• “Set compassionate boundaries… we’re not able. I love you, but I’m not able to enable.” — Dave Ramsey (62:17)
• Debt free screams in the Ramsey lobby, exemplifying what can be achieved, even at a young age.

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Timestamps for Key Sections

• 00:43 — Erin’s boundary issues with boyfriend’s mother
• 06:21 — Stuart on inheritance and special needs trusts
• 11:00 — Scarlet: obligation (or lack thereof) to broke parents
• 24:05 — Nick: massive car loan, underwater debt
• 44:20 — Monica: cash-out refi vs. radical cuts at retirement
• 54:22 — Charles: SBA loans, rental property overseas risk
• 58:18 — Albert: in-law boundaries, saying no
• 65:28 — Debt Free Scream: Josh & Holly
• 77:56 — Kyle: mortgage vs. investment debate
• 85:35 — Josh: surprising spouse with side income
• 95:58 — Adam: overcoming anxiety, learned helplessness
• 106:09 — Debt Free Scream: Brandon & Madison

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Tone & Language

Straightforward, direct, and at times irreverent: Dave’s tough love style is evident throughout (“you’re not stuck, you’re just unwilling to make the hard choice,” “don’t give a drunk a drink,” “sell everything, even the cat”). The co-hosts use plain talk, humor, and empathy, but never sugarcoat tough realities.

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Summary Table: Boundaries & Money Lessons

| Caller/Case | Main Issue | Ramsey’s Core Advice | |--------------------------|-----------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------| | Erin (San Francisco) | Parental control of assets | Set boundaries, don’t move in together until resolved | | Stuart (Little Rock) | Trusts/special needs | Simple will, add special needs trust, avoid unnecessary trusts | | Scarlet (Boston) | Broke parents | No moral obligation, help = budget/control, not enablement| | Monica (Houston) | Retirement debt | Sell vehicles, cut lifestyle, avoid cash-out refi | | Nick (Madison) | Underwater car loan | Earn more, cut everything, attack debt with intensity | | Albert (Phoenix) | In-law boundaries | Partner unity, say no, establish boundaries early | | Josh & Holly (Nashville) | House paid off by 27 | Unified goal, work hard, be grateful, intense discipline | | Brandon & Madison | $118k in 4 years | Sacrifice, overtime, teamwork, patience | | Adam (Seattle) | Can't keep a job | Therapy, hard work, new community, small wins |

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Takeaways for Listeners

• You are never obligated to financially support irresponsible adult family members.
• True change requires setting firm boundaries and sticking to them, even when it’s uncomfortable or creates conflict.
• Debt freedom is possible at any age, but requires extreme intention, sacrifice, and a willingness to do the hard work.
• Don’t confuse moving debt around with eliminating it; without changing habits, cycles repeat.
• When in doubt, go back to the basics: communicate openly with your partner, live within your means, and don’t enable bad behavior—even in those you love.

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Final Thought

The show closes by reminding listeners that there’s only one route to financial peace: taking personal responsibility, setting boundaries, and pursuing discipline—in money and in life.

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For More

Visit www.ramseysolutions.com for tools, budgeting apps, and the EveryDollar platform to track and manage your money with intention.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. We're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey network and the Fairwinds credit union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, number one best selling author, host of front row seat, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my co host. The phone number here is free and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it. The number is Triple 882-55-5225. Aaron is with us in San Francisco. Hi, Erin, how are you?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Hi, I'm good.

How are you guys? Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller or Female Caller]

So I just kind of want to know what to do in my situation and if I'm just being a brat. So my boyfriend and I, we moved in together into his house. His house is fully paid off but it's managed in a trust by his mom. I have my own house as well that I got a mortgage on before we met and I paid $3,000 a month. We want to move into my home and rent out his home but his mother is stopping us from doing that and she's not going to allow us to fix up his home or anything to get it rental ready. I just feel bad because now I'm paying a mortgage on a home and it's just sitting empty. I'm not really sure what to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, so it's not really his house? No, it's really, it's really owned by, it's owned by a trust. His mother is the trustee.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Female Caller]

If she ever sold it, he would always get the proceeds. I think it's written in that way from the sale.

But

I just feel stuck.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I don't think you're stuck. I think he's stuck. How old is he?

[Caller or Female Caller]

He's 39.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, at some point you have to become a man, my son, and decide if your mommy's going to tell you what to do.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're married. You're shacking up with a mommy's boy.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Definitely.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller or Female Caller]

She wants us to live in the home.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care what she wants. He's 30 freaking 9 years old. She don't get a vote. So, you know, I mean, gee, this is like underdeveloped psychology.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I mean, number one, I would not recommend that he completely trash everything over a girl that he's not married to you.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Fair enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so. But if he were married to you and the two of you are trying to set up a life and mother is this controlling. I would just wash my hands of that house and say, mom, good luck with that house. Hope it works out for you. You no longer have a vote and we're not gonna live there.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Okay. And so it would be better for us to move into my home. Right. And not have it sit under the door.

[Dave Ramsey]

It'd be better for you to do that if you were married. But if you're not married, then he's taking a big risk because now he's living in his girlfriend. Now he has a roommate that's his girlfriend and she owns the house. He went from one lady owning a house to another lady owning a house. This guy's yet to get. He's still homeless. Yeah, no, definitely.

[Caller or Female Caller]

You're not wrong there, sir.

At all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's a bad thing for all of you. I'm sorry. And controlling people just piss you off. I mean, they just do. And she's obviously got issues, right?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's the reason why I don't want to get married though, because until they can resolve whatever it is between them, I don't want to cross that finish.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's not marriage material until he decides his mom doesn't get a vote anymore. I would tell my daughter not to marry him until he grows a backbone. His mom tells him what to do and he's 30 freaking 9 years old.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the penalty that she's holding over his head that she's going to take him off the trust, getting the house if he moves out? What power is she really leveraging here?

[Caller or Female Caller]

If I understand all the details correctly, there's a few other rentals in the trust and he receives income from those rentals. We both don't have any consumer debt. And you know, we follow all your steps and we try to do our best to live a debt free life, but he does receive income from those rentals and his current job.

[Dave Ramsey]

So she doesn't have a choice in that. The trustee has to execute the terms of the trust. And the terms of the trust are the rental income has to be turned over to him. She can't take that away from him.

[Ken Coleman]

And so that's what I'm getting at for you all in your relationship. What he is really facing is her disapproval. She's not threatening him with anything else. And Dave just took the teeth out of the any kind of a property threat. That's what I'm getting at. What is he so afraid of? And what he's afraid of is, is upsetting mama, which is back to the core issue for your relationship and everything else. But he can leave anytime he wants to leave. He's just afraid to piss mom off. That's what's going on. So that's the bigger relationship issue.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And honestly, there's four things that you have to be in agreement on. And one of them is how we deal with extended family before you're married. And we're not in agreement about that because this has got issues. So, yeah, I'd suggest you guys sit down, see a therapist, and I guess he could move in with you in your house if you want. But he's really still not dealt with his core issue, which is he needs to be an independent human being, man child, and actually do stuff like man stuff instead of just going from mommy to girlfriend and scary stuff. So. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Has he ever been married before?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, she's gone.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, she's gone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Never mind.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I didn't see the butt.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm guessing there's a pattern. I'm also guessing mom doesn't like girlfriend.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y Y Y Stuart's in Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi, Stuart. What's up?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Hey, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. So I'll try to be brief. My father had a heart attack in 2024, and he started taking his estate a little more seriously and how he would hand it down to my sister and I. And he was advised by a friend of his, who is a lawyer for a very prominent American family, but is retired, not an estate lawyer, that he does not need a trust.

[Dave Ramsey]

Probably doesn't. What's his net worth?

[Caller or Male Caller]

I would guess it's somewhere around 1.2 to 1.5 million. He owns a business. He owns all the equipment in there,

[Dave Ramsey]

the building, about a half million dollar for tax purposes. He does not need a trust unless he's trying to control something from the deathbed or from the grave. The trust will help him do that. But he probably doesn't need a trust. Is probably accurate advice.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Well, one, one kind of screwball in this whole thing. Curveball is that we have a special needs brother, my sister and I, and he's been taken care of by the state basically since he was about 10. And we were hoping to avoid probate in any way possible. We just have a transfer on death benefit at the current situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, probate's not evil. If you've got a good will, you walk right through it and you're. What he does need is in his will. He needs to form a special needs trust upon his death and the death of your mother to take care of your brother. A special needs trust is funded at death. And then you name a trustee, maybe you or your brother, to manage that lump of assets. And the income created by that lump of assets takes care of the special needs person. But that can be formed at death. It's not rocket surgery. A lot of people do it. And so just sit down with a good estate planning attorney and work on a special needs trust to be part of your dad's estate plan. But he does not need a trust today. And there's no big thing on avoiding probate in Arkansas. Arkansas's not got a huge probate tax. It's not a big deal.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Sam, foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Sponsor or Guest Speaker]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[Sponsor or Guest Speaker]

And. Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them, they don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[Sponsor or Guest Speaker]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options. Take care of your dadgum family, man.

[Sponsor or Guest Speaker]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad, to just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Have you ever wanted to see the person who's calling in to ask a question or be in the room when we answer it? Well, now's your chance. The Ramsey show is going back on tour. Experience live Q and A, raw confessions, crowd debates and local debt free screams. The gang is going to be doing live tapings of this show in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix and Anaheim in April. There's only around 300 seats a night. Better grab your tickets while you [e-mail] or click the link in the show notes. Scarlet is in Boston. Hey, Scarlett, what's up?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Hi. To get straight to my point, my parents, through a series of recent unfortunate events, have disclosed some financial mishaps that have occurred in their life. And it basically means that they have no retirement or savings plan beyond the immediate future. My husband and I are baby steps millionaires and I wonder what my obligation is if and when it comes time for them to be taken care of.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are they when it becomes

[Caller or Female Caller]

they're in their 60s, early 60s, are they still working? My dad is. My mom is on disability. She's unable to work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what were the mishaps? What they. How they lose all their money?

[Caller or Female Caller]

My dad had a financial blow up post 2008. His company was bought by a overseas company and basically stripped. The result being he was sued by many, many people, eventually filed bankruptcy. He's now out of that and has worked just a job since. But it's never been to that level of success he had when he owned his own business.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long ago was the. Oh, 2008 was the blow up, Right?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What does he make?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Six figures? I don't know too much about his salary because A lot of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But they've saved nothing since 2008, correct.

[Caller or Female Caller]

There have been some medical bills. My mom had a stroke and they don't have.

[Dave Ramsey]

They don't have health insurance.

[Caller or Female Caller]

They did the health insurance covered. There was a delay, so they had to front some money. And then the insurance company kicked her off the disability when she was approved initially for it, which is how I came by their financials. I helped them file an appeal and then we went to court to try and with the insurance company, you don't really win, but there was a small settlement and that settlement has been spent. So that's how I know through that process with my dad what their financial situation has become.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but the bottom line was after 2008, their heart was broken and they've never been really diligent about saving.

[Caller or Female Caller]

I think they also kept up a lifestyle that was. That they couldn't sustain.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what I'm saying.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Okay.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, they're gonna stop that, aren't they?

[Caller or Female Caller]

I don't think they have any intentions of doing that.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Well, it's so I don't give a drunk a drink. I'm not gonna enable them. And no, you have no moral obligation to take care of anyone. There's no moral obligation that's not your husband or your children. Minor children, grown children. You don't have a moral obligation either, but you have a want to. I'd like to help my parents, which just means you have a heart and so forth. But I'm also have this paradox of while I want to help them, they've not done a good job themselves with even notwithstanding the couple things they've run into. They're just not very diligent about handling their money. And so they're broke. Well, hello. And so it makes it taste bad to want to give, to have to give them money or to feel like I need to support them. So what I might do, I mean it depends on how frank and how much you want to get up in their face on it. But it's mom and dad I'm worried about. Looking down the road here that somehow you guys are going to be broke and you're going to be coming to me to take care of you and I need to go ahead and tell you up front how that's going to go. If I end up having to put money into or needing to put money in so that you have food, it's going to involve us selling everything you own. And you will be on a budget that I create and you won't like it. So I don't want you to think you're going to be that you're going to maintain this current set of habits with my money later, in other words. Now I don't know how blunt you want to get, but the closer you come to delivering some kind of a message like that then sets them up to gives them maybe a reason. And I'll coach you guys on how to start saving because you still got some earning years left and some potential left. And you can roll up your sleeves and you guys can build a nest egg. There's no reason for you to retire and eat dog food. But if I'm in charge, we're selling everything and you're in a one bedroom apartment and I will buy the groceries and pay the rent and you will not like you will be able to exist and you won't be homeless. But I am not going to send you on Caribbean cruises and you got the ability to do that for yourself. If you guys will roll up Your sleeves now, and I can coach you on how to do that. Now, I don't. Again, I don't know how much, how far down in this you want to get. It sounds like this stuff has been kind of dribbling out to you. You've not been involved. You've not been involved. And then finally on this one insurance thing, you got a little more involved. And I don't think they're asking your help or advice right now. You just see it's coming. Is that right? Correct. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I think this is great advice, and I think Dave gave you the financial advice, and I would just add to what he said. You need to create some emotional boundaries to where you are prepared for their reaction if this situation plays out as you fear it might. So that you've already made these decisions like Dave just laid out, but you now are emotionally, mentally ready for any pushback. And there's no guilt that comes in because that will be the hardest part of this, is to actually execute on what Dave said because there's a powerful pull with the parents, you know, all that junk.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your generation, we call them sandwich generation because there's a pull from entitled parents and there's a pull from entitled grown children. And the trick, the way to undo that sandwich is just remove the word entitled and it changes everything. You're not entitled to spit. Neither of you grown kids, you're not entitled to spit. Well, my children want to go. I don't care. Get you a job. There's an idea, you know, go to work. And mom and dad, you know, you went through this horrible thing with the business. Some of that was your making, some of it wasn't. You went through this horrible thing with the insurance, and you didn't take care of that properly. Let me tell you, the number of times I front for an Insurance Company. 0. And then hope I recoup out of them. No, I'm going to turn everybody loose on everybody. And then I'm going to stand back and watch them all fight. Let the insurance company and the provider fight. You guys figure it out. Then I'll clean up what's left. But I'm not writing a check. And then somebody's got to come in, borrow money, and then I try to recoup out of the insurance company. Not a chance. Instead, I'm going at their throat right now, and that's being proactive rather than just kind of gliding along. And there's a lot of gliding along in this. So it's a very hard thing to decide. Now, you also can decide you've got enough money, you don't want to deal with it. And I'm just going to write whatever check I need to write and then just take care of them, and I'm just not going to worry about it. And if that's the case, you probably wouldn't have made this phone call. So you just done it. And I'm just going to be an enabler, and I'm comfortable with that. And that's what I want to do. Mom and dad took care of me, I'm going to take care of them. And it's no big deal. It's not. It's not morally wrong either way. But when you call up and ask, that means that you don't want to do it. That's what it means. So how much preemptive strike do you want to get involved in is the next decision you got to make? How much preemptive conversations?

[Ken Coleman]

Dave, I was going to ask you kind of a follow up. What are your thoughts? Because I think there's probably several hundred thousand people that could be listening right now that are in these shoes and they feel a sense of burden to take care of their parents. And when you say there's no moral obligation, I agree with you. What advice would you give to them to get over that emotional hump, that sense of guilt or shame that they ought to take care of them? If they don't, they're bad kids, what would you tell them?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, I think you just need to decide, you know, whether it's your responsibility or not. There should. If it is not your responsibility, then there shouldn't be shame or guilt. The only reason you have shame or guilt is if you feel like it's your responsibility and you didn't do it. That's the only reason it would be there. And so, like, you know, if my buddy calls me up and says, I need some money, I have zero shame or guilt about either giving it to him or not giving it to him. Because I don't feel an obligation. I don't feel like I have to do it. And honor your parents in the Bible does not mean honoring misbehavior. If Mama's doing cocaine, you're not honoring her by giving her $10,000. That's not honoring your parents.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Sa.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, I don't know where my money goes, it's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem. They're not budgeting. Then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal. Winning with money is about doing the boring stuff consistently. And that includes banking someplace that helps you stop guessing with your money, like Fairwinds Credit Union. They're not gonna fix your habits. That part's on you. But they do support people who are ready to take control of their money. At Fairwinds, you get a high yield savings account with a great rate to help grow your emergency fund, a checking account that won't nickel and dime you, and up to 10 free savings accounts. So you can organize your money on purpose. Because when you stay disciplined, your money gets predictable, manageable, and boring in the best way. So if you're ready for a bank that helps you be intentional, open your smart Bundle [e-mail] Ramsey and get the Ramsey Beweir debit card to go along with it. That's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[Dave Ramsey]

Frank is in Toronto. Hey, Frank, how are you?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Not bad, Dave. I finally got through to talk to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we're glad you did. How can we help?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Sir, it's an honor for you to be there. You and all the personalities. I was just wondering. I'm looking for future planning purposes here of once I get to baby step four, which I believe is saving 15% towards retirement, that I could have to maybe have to go a little more gung ho than that because I'm 54 and don't have anything safe for retirement, I'll have $215,000 worth of retirement investment room when I get to that stage. I'll be debt free in eight months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller or Male Caller]

I've actually set the date for November 6th, and then I'll have my emergency fund of $10,000 saved. I have $3,000. I just did a budget. I got 3,000 DOL.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Right now it's just me. I'm the household 5600 net per month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So if you say 15% of your gross annually into good growth stock mutual funds inside of your retirement plan. Now you're in Canada, so it's a little different, but still you can do all of that.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you do that for 10 or 12 years. You're 55 at the point you start and you do it to 65, 67, you're going to be a millionaire. You're going to be fine. Wow. And no, you don't have to know. You don't have to do it. Out of order. You do need to get your house Paid off during that time as well.

[Caller or Male Caller]

I don't have a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Male Caller]

That's the other thing, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you start talking about how we're going to do that and what we can get paid for. Because when you go into retirement, your most expensive line item in your budget is always housing.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you don't have debt on your house, obviously it does. It's no longer the most expensive line item in your budget. So you've got a lot of room then, but you're gonna be fine if you just continue to follow through. And it sounds like you got it really dialed in. So congratulations. Keep it up. If you need more help, call us anytime. Brother Nick is in Madison, Wisconsin. Hey, Nick, what's up?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Hey, Dave. Just calling. I'm hoping that you can hear me well enough. I'm in a rural area right now. Okay, I got a couple of questions. I've got a couple of questions here on.

[Caller or Female Caller]

I'm sitting.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Well, first off, I'm only 27 years old. I got a 123,000 in debt here. 81 is about the house. 81,000, 28,000 is my car. And then personal loans around 6,000. Medical bills sitting around 8,000. My main question today is I always hear you say, sell your car if you. Because the car is worth about 12 grand today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who said?

[Caller or Male Caller]

I looked at Kelley Blue Book and then I also looked at the dealership, a couple of different dealerships on private

[Dave Ramsey]

sale or trade in. That sounds like a trade in number.

[Caller or Male Caller]

That would be, that would be just, just a sale. Because I'm trying to get out of this loan and not get a new one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Male Caller]

So if my math is correct, I think we're sitting at like 17,000 underwater right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you owe $32,000 on this thing. $34,000 on this thing.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah. Yep. Because we originally.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you roll a negative, did you roll negative equity from another car into this deal?

[Caller or Male Caller]

I did. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's how you got there. Okay. And what's your household income?

[Caller or Male Caller]

So I, I, we do 70,000 before the taxes, and then taxes come out. We get about 56, 57. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Well, I mean, you're stuck in that car. Selling it is of no benefit because it's not worth anything compared to what it's owed. So.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it's not much help. But what, what that doesn't mean, sadly, is, is that you're going to work six extra jobs and you're going to sell everything else in sight. Everything's on. Put the cat on Craigslist and the dog on ebay. I mean, we're going crazy here. And beans and beans and rice, man. No, no. Life. You've got to lean into this and start throwing grenades at it. Harsh. Like your life depends on it. It's not. You can't wander out of this mess. You're going to be extremely intense.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Okay, so the monthly payment right now is 647.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Male Caller]

And I. I have been the past few payments to 1100.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about coming up with $34,000 extra.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you need to be making, like an extra $2,000 a month and squeezing every dime out of your existing budget, too. So you are. You're married, I take it?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Everybody in the house is working. The children are going to the salt mines. Everybody's working. We're all making more money. We're all going to throw it at this mess because this is not going to go away with, you know, just sitting down and tightening up the only budget you have right now because you've tried that and, you know, and an extra payment is not getting you out anytime in this century because you probably also have a high interest rate on this thing, don't you?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, It's. It's about 10. 10% right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got screwed coming in going. Yeah. You don't need to be on a car lot for a while, do you? What a mess. Yeah, I.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, if I'm sitting this situation, I have any cash, I'm going to go ahead and move this thing and I'm going to drive a clunker because of.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you can get the cash.

[Ken Coleman]

If you can get the cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's 17,000 upside down. If that number is accurate and the thing's worth 12, who are you going to replace it with? A 5? You only got a $7,000 move here. So, you know, getting rid of the. Getting rid of that thing and getting rid of the debt on it and getting rid of these other debts so that you can attack it with a vengeance is absolutely necessary here. So any money you can scrape together that's not in a retirement, anything you can sell that's not in retirement, and any extra work you guys can do. And I'm talking about work that. Not just out there moving around. I'm talking about Uber. I'm talking about really making some money. And I want you working weekends, nights, overtime. I want your wife doing the same. Y' all got a mess. And you're going to stay in the mess unless you throw some money at it. And so that's what it's going to take. It's going to take this crazy intensity and then you can move the needle. Isabella is in New York City. Hi, Isabella, how are you?

[Caller or Female Caller]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Female Caller]

I need your opinion here because I need you to act as a tiebreaker. But I just got a new job with a higher salary and my parents are really pushing me to buy an apartment in New York City. Obviously New York City. It's one of the most renter heavy cities in the country. I've really never thought of buying or considered it, but my parents are not letting it go. I'm happy renting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why do your parents have a vote?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Because they're my parents.

[Dave Ramsey]

That doesn't give them a vote. You're supposed to be like a grown woman and stuff.

[Caller or Female Caller]

I do take a lot of, like, what they say into account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's nice, that's sweet. But they don't really get a vote.

[Caller or Female Caller]

I do, I do see where they're coming from. I think for me it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller or Female Caller]

I'm 24.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you make? What's the new salary?

[Caller or Female Caller]

95,000.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the cost of the apartment?

[Caller or Female Caller]

With 95,000, I could reasonably look at anything between 300 to 400,000 in the city.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not in the city, that's in an outlying borough somewhere.

[Caller or Female Caller]

If it's in a co op, I would have to. It would be within that budget. But there would be co op fees

[Dave Ramsey]

on top of it in Manhattan.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you talking, what, 400 square feet or something?

[Caller or Female Caller]

My own apartment right now that I'm renting is pretty tiny. So I see where they're coming from that I could upgrade while owning at the same time, but I don't know,

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not sure you can. That number doesn't sound right to me, but okay, I'm not, I'm not a Manhattan expert, but all right. I mean, you might be out in the Bronx or Queens or something and do that, but I'm not thinking you're gonna be on the island doing that. So here's the thing. You're 24 years old, you make $95,000 a year and you don't really want to buy right now is what you told me. That's kind of what you said.

[Caller or Female Caller]

I, for me, just, I don't see, I don't see how I can buy

[Dave Ramsey]

like I'm not sure how either. I don't think you buy right now.

[Caller or Male Caller]

I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm okay with you waiting. Someday you want to buy and maybe you're still in New York City, maybe you're still in Manhattan. But homeownership when you don't want to is a bad idea. Homeownership when you can't afford it is a really bad idea. All home ownership not good. Only when it's done properly is it a blessing.

[Caller or Female Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Colton is in Atlanta. Hi, Colton, how are you doing?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Good.

Hey, I got a quick question for y'. All. I have a small business and I'm wondering how I should do profit sharing with my two team members.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's a great question and I think it's really important that you start thinking about that at your size. We did then when we were that size. Now there's a thousand of us and we have 14 core values. One of our core values on the wall is share the profits. So we share with everybody in the building in one way or another all kinds of different ways. Now it's somewhat complicated because there's so much. The first thing I learned the hard way that I will teach you is to make sure that the two team members know that this is Colton's money and I am sharing it. That's different than corporate profit sharing. That's part of my comp plan that I'm entitled to. This is you out of the goodness of your heart setting up a culture inside my little company here that I believe in sharing with the team and I Am doing that voluntarily. You see the difference in the spirit. It's like when you're in the kindergarten sharing, you know what I'm saying? This is not like profit sharing is part of my comp plan and they didn't pay it, and so I'm pissed. No, you don't get that option. You're not entitled. This is me being kind and you smiling when I'm kind. That's how this works.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Okay, so I've probably been doing it wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I did. I screwed it up when I was your size and I had to go back and reset. The second thing I do, and we still do this to this day, is we pay out profit sharing here once a month. And our CFO gets on the stage and says, hey, profits were up, up over last month, down over this month. Last year we had a good month. Here's a couple of bright spots in the company. Without going into details of numbers, here's how many people are involved in the profit sharing plan this month. And so your profit sharing check's gonna be a little better than last month and not as good as two months ago. And here's why. And then we close that talk out with here's where profits come from. And everyone in the whole room, all 1,000 people, say, profits happen when revenues go up. Everybody says up and when expenses go down. So your job is to make revenues go up and expenses go down. And then you get more profit sharing because I'll have more to share with you. And we say that like we're in kindergarten or something every Wednesday or every Monday morning that we do once a month when we're doing profit sharing announcement because we want everybody to remember this is not Santa Claus is not delivering a bag of money. This happened because we all work together to keep expenses down and revenues up. And you have to reset that in people's minds over and over and over again. Because people forget and they're like, oh, well, the company didn't give me any money. No, that's not how this works, honey. You're self employed like the rest of us. We as a group sucked. So your profit sharing is down because there's less profit to share. And so, you know, we talk about it when it's up or down. And so those are two things you want. You reset the entitlement and the ownership aspect. And then you can figure out from after those two things are in place how to do the calculation. I used to do hours when I was your size once a quarter because it wasn't much Money and it'd be like 500 bucks or something after a quarter. Right. And so because there wasn't a lot of profit, wasn't a lot of revenue, and there's four of us, you know, and so. And I wanted it to be a little bigger check, but what I figured out was that people weren't, they couldn't count on it because they only got it ever so often. And so it wasn't connecting in their brains. And so once we figured that out, we went back, we went to a monthly. What you could do is not do any of that. And you could say, hey guys, every so often we had a great month. I'm taking all of us and the wives and the kids out to dinner and we're all going to a movie and I'm going to spend some company money just to say thank you because I'm going to share some of our profits with you that way. Or hey, here's a hundred dollar handshake. We had a good month. And it's not formal and it's not a bunch of math calculation and you can keep it fairly primitive and simple that way when there's three of you without getting into some kind of freaking spreadsheet analysis. And by the way, our team does not know how profits are calc. Their portion of profit sharing is calculated. That way they don't have to back into and worry about what's going on. All they know is we share with them. And it's pretty dad gum sweet these days. So does that make any sense? What'd you say you did wrong?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Well, so what I've been doing is we do commercial residential remodeling. And so by the time I take all the expenses out and after I pay myself and there's some left, then I usually, what I've been doing is just kept giving them 3% of that. I didn't tell them this. I just told them that they're going to get some sharing in the profits we make of it. There's a successful job.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a good, that's a good move. I like that. What's wrong with that?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Then they don't get in it. They don't get any. But then I'm also trying to figure out what percentage should I save back for retained earnings because sometimes we don't work for a while and then I'm like, don't have enough there to save.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The profits that we use to calculate, the number we use to calculate profit sharing is after we have set retained earnings aside.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Okay, that's what I was kind of wondering.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So we set retained earnings aside and that creates, we have several layers of profit, net profit, NP1 through 7. I have seven different layers of profit before or after certain expenses. And the only one that gets paid off the actual NP7 is me and a couple of our senior leaders. But everybody else, there's different layers in there as to where we're cutting profit in and out because I've got some of the VPs, some of the vice presidents that get paid a percentage of the profits in their area as part of their comp. And that's not technically profit sharing. I've got profit sharing in addition to that. So I've got all that complicated bullcrap in there. But yeah, it's after retained earnings. So you have to run your business and when money's left after you run your, you share with them.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think it's smart to say, hey guys, if we can keep the cost down on this job and keep our estimating sharp and estimate the job properly so we get the proper price on the job and then we don't, you know, we don't buy 73 tools that we don't need in order to do the job because we're all tool addicts and everything else in your world, then we're going to have some profit left and I'm going to make sure some of that goes home with you. And I'm making it up as I go, but I'm just promise you the spirit is I want to share with you.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Okay. So you think it's okay to do it by job like I've been doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I think it's smart.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Okay. Because there are jobs times when we don't, we don't profit. Yeah, I mean like I profit but they, the business doesn't profit. And so then we just say hey, we need to talk about why this didn't profit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. We're all self employed and if the job doesn't make a profit, we don't have anything to share. Hello. Okay, that's perfect. How old are you?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Thank you. 24.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man, you're sharp. You're doing a good job. I'm proud of you. Very. You spent some time thinking about this. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

It's really good.

[Caller or Male Caller]

I read your book. So tell.

[Ken Coleman]

I want, I want the audience to hear how your team members reacted when you first gave them some profit share. What was that reaction like

[Caller or Female Caller]

the first time?

[Caller or Male Caller]

It was like $6 and they were making the joke that they could go buy an ice cream.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Caller or Male Caller]

But it's been up since then, and they really. It. It really surprises them every time.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And so that's what I wanted to just emphasize by asking you that question is because that is the key to building loyalty. They appreciate, you know, even though it was six bucks, they still appreciated that

[Dave Ramsey]

you put thought into it.

[Ken Coleman]

The thought, you know, we've all heard it's the thought that counts. Our wives try to drill that into us husbands. You know, it's the thought that counts. Get the birthday card, write a note. You know, the whole drill. But I just want to make sure young leaders catch this. This is how you build a business on core people, is fundamentally showing people how much they matter to you. And I think that's going to serve you very well. So I wanted to applaud you as well. That's really good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you did a great job. Very well done. So, yeah, building a business you love. One of the things we talk about in there is the importance of being able to, you know, share. It's the beauty of small businesses. Most small businesses are not greedy people. They're not like corporate America. They don't piss on their people. Most of them take care of. They're like family. They take care of each other. And so, you know, guys like that right there, that's pretty cool. He starts with $6. That's. That's pretty fun. I like that. A. Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well, make a healthy profit and grow. And your team, family, and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking about AI like it's magic and you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it all alone. That's where NetSuite comes in. Over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system. Accounting, inventory, CRM, payroll, the works. And now NetSuite's AI takes it further, automating busywork, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time, and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster. You're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And, yeah, switching systems is a big move, but NetSuite's suite success process gets you up and running fast. Go to netsuite.comramsey for a free product tour and to schedule time with a NetSuite rep. That's NetSuite.com Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality number one best selling author and host of the show, front row seat on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co host today. Monica's in Houston. Hey Monica, how are you

[Caller or Female Caller]

doing? Good, Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Well, I'm calling, thank you for taking my call. First of all, I've been listening to your show for quite a while and it's primarily me that listens to your show. My husband doesn't at all. My question today has to do with the cash out refi. My husband and I are almost to the retirement age. He will turn 65 next week and I will turn 64 in the summer. We have no savings, no retirement. Our joint income is around 116k. We have debt, personal loans, credit cards and automobiles of 83,000. And we have a $28,000 mortgage lien that we disagree on but we do have it against our primary residence. So my husband looked into getting a cash out refi to roll all of our debt into one loan to free us essentially of all the debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

It doesn't free you of it, it moves it onto your house.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Right.

[Caller or Female Caller]

It moves it onto the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not paying off anything, you're just moving it. Right. Okay.

[Caller or Female Caller]

And so I was trying to explain that to my husband. I said look, this is a 30 year loan and we're, our mortgage is at 53k right now. What why would it make for us to roll all this debt into another mortgage loan? We're almost at the finish line. So the loan officer is tag teaming me with my husband, trying to get me to agree that it makes sense to finance this loan again and put all the debt into one pot. And he's saying that I would be walking away with an extra $3,000 a month if I were to go this route. And if we added an extra $2,000 a month, we could pay off the mortgage in six years. I don't know if that makes sense to me or not. I need you to help me to sort this out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, what's bothering you is that nothing changed in your habits when you do this.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so when you're 70, you're going to be back in debt.

[Caller or Female Caller]

I don't like that idea.

I don't like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but that's what you're going to do because the system y' all are using now put you here and you're not Changing anything in the system, you think, and your husband thinks he can borrow his way out of debt and you can't dig your hole, Dig your way. You can't dig out the bottom of a hole and get out. That's not how it works. So how much of the 83 is his truck?

[Caller or Female Caller]

32,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Isn't that weird that I knew that?

[Caller or Female Caller]

I'm prepared to sell my truck and just drive the other one.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe on the other truck?

[Caller or Female Caller]

The Jeep is 24, 000 and we have an F150 that we paid cash for that he drives occasionally when he doesn't drive the more expensive truck. And I told him.

[Dave Ramsey]

How many cars do you all have?

[Caller or Female Caller]

We have three vehicles, two trucks and one Jeep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And truck number one that he drives occasionally that's paid for is worth what,

[Caller or Female Caller]

maybe $6,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And the other truck is worth 32 and owes 32 on it. Right. And then there's the Jeep that you owe 24 on. Right?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Think I found the problem. If I was going, if I was 65 years old and getting ready to retire and I was stone cold broken, I'd be scared.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Oh, well, I am scared.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not looking for a six year plan that some freaking loan officer gave me. That gives me chills. So y' all probably aren't gonna do this. Cause I don't think you and your husband are aligned on this. But mathematically what y' all ought to do is sell both these cars. Both of them?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And not refund, and not do a cash out refinance. Instead pay your way out of debt and be debt free sooner than six years.

[Caller or Female Caller]

That's what makes sense to me. That's what I've been trying.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you could pay off the house and everything in about three years at 68 years old. But you're going to be not driving these two cars.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Well, I tried to explain that to him. I said, look, you know, we owning two vehicles with two notes didn't make sense to me to begin with. We have a concession trailer that we use occasionally and that's why he bought the truck, to move the concession trailer around. But now that we have one spot, you know, I don't see us moving it all the time. I see us trying to use it to get out of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Female Caller]

So I really feel like not giving up the 53k that we have left on the mortgage and sacrifices for 185.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So $85,000 if you sell these two cars gets you completely out of debt. Mortgage. And. And you make 116. You can do that in two to three years, and you should, because you're freaking retirement age and broke.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Can you say that one more time? Because my husband is not here, and I want to make sure that I got it written down.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, you said you had $83,000 in debt, right? Not counting the mortgage?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And If I take 32 from that. If I take 32 from that, I have 51. And if I take 24 from that, I have 26. 26 and 53. Mortgage is 78. You make 116. How fast do you pay off 78 making 116? If you paid off 35,000 a year, you're done in two years. If you pay off $25,000 a year, you're Done in three years. And that. That's no six year plan. That makes your banker rich.

[Caller or Female Caller]

That's what I told him. I said we could do this in three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The last financial planner you need is a loan officer.

[Caller or Female Caller]

That's what I thought. That's why I've been listening to your radio station. So I don't get into these.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't. I don't know if you're gonna get hubby to do all this, so.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Well, you know what?

[Dave Ramsey]

I think it's time to try. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And by the way, the timeline Dave gave you speeds up. If you guys are working extra y,

[Dave Ramsey]

you could do it in two years, be done in two years while you got health. And if you got no house payment, no payments at all. I got your $3,000. Now it's $4,000 freed up to start saving some money. You start saving 50 grand a year, and you do that for four or five years, you're gonna have a decent nest egg in your 70s, and you won't be retiring eating dog food. Alpo, the breakfast of champions. It's like, oh, my gosh. You know? I mean. Yeah, but here's the thing. We've been buying crap we can't afford because we wanted it, and some loan officer told us it was a good idea. The guy at the car lot said, look, I got you approved. And, like, we're supposed to celebrate that? Hello. You owe more on your cars than you do on your house.

[Ken Coleman]

Oof. Ouch. Fact.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pinch me. It's true.

[Ken Coleman]

What is wrong with this picture?

[Dave Ramsey]

Right? Yeah. Well, she's been controlling the house thing, and he's been doing the other stuff, and now he's tinkering with the thing. She's been Controlling.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's why she rose up.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's good for you, kiddo. Yeah. I'm afraid I'm gonna cause some marital discord. And I'm happy to.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Sam,

[Dave Ramsey]

When you're drowning in credit card debt and collectors start threatening lawsuits, a rep from some call center debt relief company can't protect you. A lot of so called debt relief programs leave people wondering, am I actually protected if I get sued? When all you've got is a legal plan added on as an upsell, of course you feel stuck. But Guardian isn't another debt relief company. They're real attorneys. And with Guardian, you're assigned an attorney from day one. That means if a creditor sues, you're not scrambling and you're not hit with surprise legal fees. Now look, I'm telling you straight. Debt settlement isn't pretty. I'd rather see you get out of debt the old fashioned way. But if you're out of options and you're staring down bankruptcy, Guardian gives you real protection and a path forward. Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55,000 people across the country settle more than $600 million in debt. Not with gimmicks, with legal expertise. So if you want real help instead of a sales pitch, go to guardianlit.com Ramsey that's guardianlit.com Ramsey Attorney advertising results may vary and no specific outcome is guarantee. Charles is in Sacramento. Hey, Charles. How are you doing?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Well, how are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve, sir. What's up?

[Caller or Male Caller]

I was wondering if pulling out an SB lock for an investment property would be the right move for me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Well, I'm guessing you're fairly new to our show.

[Caller or Male Caller]

I've been listening for a while, but my financial advisor presented me with the option of an SB lock. It's not pushing me towards it, just, you know, presenting the options.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I mean, if you've been listening to this, you know I don't borrow money or tell people to borrow money. Right?

[Caller or Male Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so the answer would be no.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Okay. Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, that's. I love real estate and I love investment property. I hate debt on it it. And I really hate the Small Business Administration. They suck. And for you to get tied in with them and what that's going to do to the rest of your whole portfolio all just to get a rental property, is the risk level that you just took on. Neither one of you two are thinking about what you're doing here. The risk level is through the roof. So Your investment guys risk meter is broken because the s, the SB lock is always tied to other assets as well. And so you're putting all of that at risk to screw around with a rental property in California.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Well, that's.

[Caller or Male Caller]

So that's the thing. The rental property actually isn't in California.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's worse.

[Caller or Male Caller]

It's a lot further away in the island of Guam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's really bad.

[Caller or Male Caller]

It's my wife's grandmother's house.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't, we do not have rental property. That's long investment property. That's long distance. And we certainly don't buy grandmother's house for rental property in Guam. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This guy, you're trying to figure out a way to do something you can't afford, and this guy's presenting you an option to finance something you can't afford to do. And really it's God just yelling at you, don't do this.

[Ken Coleman]

So true. It's a long distance headache. That's what you're looking at.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, as foreign country, hello. I mean, if you're going to invest in real estate, you want real estate to be a very predictable environment, okay. And so if you're going to invest money in a foreign country situation, you've completely left the stability of the US Economy. And so you can do that, but you need to be able to burn that amount of money down. And so if you want to buy a property in Mexico, you want to buy a property in Guam. Costa Rica, I got a friend of mine bought a place in Costa Rica the other day. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. But somehow we Americans think that everywhere else in the world still functions the way the United States functions. And it doesn't. It's a freaking banana republic. Hello. And so, you know, they may just come over there and take your property. So you need to be able to just abandon that amount of money at any point if you're going to do that. And I'm not saying Guam is going to do that, I'm not saying Costa Rica is going to do that. But we cannot make the assumption that there, their governmental processes, their ownership, private property rights function the same way in that culture, in that country as it does in the US it doesn't. And so, you know, these things turn socialist or communist in about an eye blink. And all of a sudden, yeah, you're one of those evil property owners. So you just have to think about these things. You need to be able to burn that amount of money down. And you don't borrow on a small business line of credit to buy in a foreign country. No, for sure, for sure. So you do whatever you want. But you called and ask us and we're always going to tell you the truth because we love you and we don't want you to get hurt. And you're going to regret that one if you do it. I promise. Albert's in Phoenix. Hey, Albert. What's going on? Hey.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Hey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing well.

[Caller or Male Caller]

So I'm 25 and my girlfriend's 23. Friday is our five year anniversary. So happy for that. With that timeline comes marriage. And I do want to propose to that girl.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller or Male Caller]

But my main concern really isn't that it's what comes with that marriage. So the potential in laws. And they're fantastic people, don't get me wrong. Love them, but I've noticed that their finances are all out of whack from like the last three years. So they're in their early mid-50s and they have nothing saved up for retirement. They owe $178,000 on their house and they make a combined household income of 70 to 75,000, depending on over.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is your, is your girlfriend sane? Is she going to be a wife that wants to do what they've done?

[Caller or Male Caller]

No, no, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I mean.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Definitely financially on the same page. So we're good there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So the two of you are going to be okay. The only question is you've got this potential liability off in the distance.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah. So they're going on three to four vacations a year while we're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honey, you can't fix them. If you're going to start out your marriage trying to fix the in laws, you have a long life.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Okay. Gotcha. It's just that we're in the situation where we've been asked for money personally for the most basic necessities and I

[Dave Ramsey]

would just say no.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Groceries say no.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if she doesn't get comfortable and you don't get comfortable saying no, then we've got other problems. But it's the two of you that are the problem, not them. Because they're a known quantity. We know what they're gonna do. They're gonna piss away money and ask you for money. That's a given.

[Ken Coleman]

Has your girlfriend given in and given them money?

[Dave Ramsey]

We lost you. Did she, did she give them money or not? Say it again. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Now that's the. That's what I'd be worried about.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is this is the person we need to be talking to, not them. Yeah, you're not going to fix them. The only thing you're going to determine with her is the two of you are going to hold hands, lock arms, and say, this is how we're going to handle life and life includes your crazy butt parents.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Gotcha. My only concern is I don't want to be a pocketbook for their retirement. And don't be hard to say no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't be. Isn't it? Just plan on it. I'm planning on saying no.

[Ken Coleman]

This is the premarital counseling stuff. This is. This would be issue number one for me based on what you've presented. That's what you called us about. Yeah, I agree you should have a concern. But you got to hear what Dave said. The concern is with your girlfriend, potential wife, and you. Yeah, you both have to be locked in here to say no. We're never going to say yes again. We made that mistake once. We're not going to do it again.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are not poor, pitiful people. These are people who don't manage their money well. So it's hard to feel sorry for them when they need money, right?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you need a new phone. Okay. It's about the fourth time I've been through that. All right, so guys, learning to set boundaries with your in laws and with extended family of any kind, and extended families, anyone that doesn't live inside of our home, you, your spouse, your personal minor children, you have to be able to set boundaries with them and create quality, kind, compassionate boundaries. To say, we're not able to do that. It doesn't match with our goals. I'm sorry, we're unable to do that. And about the fourth time, they'll get mad and they'll say, but I deserve. No, I'm sorry, we're not able to do that. I'm so sorry, we're not able to do that. And we've looked at our budget and we just don't have room for that. Yeah, well, you're a millionaire. I know, but we looked at our budget and we don't have room for that. So, you know, that's. I mean, you just got to be kind about it and go, no. And, you know, now listen, I'll be happy to get you into Financial peace University and you know, I'll help you sell your car and, you know, I'll help you get an extra job and I'll coach you. I'll be your biggest cheerleader. I love you. I want you to win, but I'M not able to enable.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I love that. That's really good. I would say, hey, let me tell you about these baby steps. I'll walk with you. I'll hold you accountable. You up for that?

[Dave Ramsey]

But you can't. But that's only after they ask for money. You don't just go marching in there and suggest that they're not going to hear it. That's an, you know, we're not able to do that. But I'll tell you what it can do. Yes. And even if you want to go super crazy, you can go. Listen, if you get on a plan and you're real intense and you're starting to work, I might even throw in some towards the plan after I see the plan working. But the plan right now is you just spend piss away money and then you come over here wanting some. That's not a plan. I'm in for you pissing away money and then tell me I got to make it up. That's not something we do here. So you know, and, but dude, this is you and your girlfriend being grown up stuff and setting boundaries with people that you love but don't respect. That's hard.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Sam.

[Sponsor or Guest Speaker]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I am right here because some extraordinary women in my life, mentors, friends, my wife, my mom, because they're all amazing. And one of the common themes I've heard from all of them is that between the responsibilities and expectations that the world places on them and the expectations they place on themselves, women are under incredible pressure every day. And they're often encouraged to overlook their own emotional well being to care for others. Therapy offers a space for women to learn how to navigate those competing expectations, set healthy boundaries and communicate what they want and what they need to do that. I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and your preferences. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. And with over 30,000 therapists, they have the right person for you.

[Caller or Female Caller]

You.

[Sponsor or Guest Speaker]

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[Dave Ramsey]

One of our favorite things to do around here is a debt free scream in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. We even have a debt free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions so we can see the people and talk to them when they're doing their scream. And our super favorite thing to do is when it's one of our own Ramsey Solutions team members, which will be true of Josh today. And his wife Holly are with us to do their debt free scream. Welcome, guys.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Thank you.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Thank you.

We're so excited.

I guess.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. All right, Josh, tell people what you do here and how long you've been with us.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, I've been here at Ramsey for about five and a half years, and I am on the Ramsey education team. I'm a relationship manager for our sponsors.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And that's the high school curriculum, primarily. And we get sponsors that pay for that to go into the high schools. And you help get that done?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. Because the high school Curriculum's had about 6 million students through it now, I believe.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yes, sir. And counting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. There we go. Good stuff. Well, congratulations. All right, how much debt have you two paid on off?

[Caller or Male Caller]

We paid off $175,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Just north of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Goodness gracious. In what period of time?

[Caller or Male Caller]

18 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa. Okay, now, we don't ask incomes because your team members are all standing around. That would be unfair. Otherwise, we always put everybody else on the spot. But how in the world do you pay off 175,000 in 18 months? That's like $10,000 a month.

[Caller or Female Caller]

A lot of Chick fil A. But then also, like, working here, working our jobs. But it's been so fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Caller or Male Caller]

So, yeah, when she says Chick fil a, we. We picked up some side hustles. We. We worked at Chick fil a. It's been super fun. I've always done Instacart. So did Instacart on the side. And yeah, when we first got married, I. I had been saving up money while we were engaged to. To put down. You know, once we got married, we wanted to start knocking out the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you had a chunk to throw at it.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how long y' all been married?

[Caller or Female Caller]

A year and a half.

[Dave Ramsey]

18 months.

[Caller or Female Caller]

18 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

So thus this begins. Okay. So.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so this is starting to sound like Holly brought this debt in.

[Caller or Female Caller]

I did.

I did.

I came with a lot of baggage, which was the mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you're worth every penny.

[Caller or Female Caller]

I hope so.

[Dave Ramsey]

He still. So this is your mortgage?

[Caller or Female Caller]

It was our mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

You paid off your freaking house?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yes, we did.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I was thinking student loans. Oh, my God. So you married a woman with a house. I got it. Okay. That's a lot better. That's a lot better. Deal. Okay. Good job, man. Man, you pay off the house. How old are you two?

[Caller or Female Caller]

I'm 27.

[Caller or Male Caller]

I'm 29.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have a paid for freak. What's this house worth?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Just under 300,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Geez. So you guys are going to be millionaires in no time.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yeah, we're excited.

[Dave Ramsey]

So proud of y'.

[Caller or Female Caller]

All. Awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you just. You got married and then just went, we're game on. We're not gonna. You went gazelle Intense on the house.

[Caller or Male Caller]

We did, yeah. Yeah. We treated baby step six like baby step two. And that's kind of something. Before we got married, we went through FPU and we just wanted to, you know, we dreamed. We said like, hey, what. What could life look like if we had no payments? And so.

[Dave Ramsey]

So neither one of you had any consumer debt coming in?

[Caller or Male Caller]

That's right. When I first started working here, that's when I.

[Dave Ramsey]

You cleaned all that up?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Cleaned all my. I had about $40,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she's obviously responsible because she had no debt in a house.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's. That's a shout out to mom and dad for. She was listening to Dave Ramsey growing up in the car, in the backseat

[Caller or Female Caller]

of the car, asking lots of questions that I didn't know what I was asking, but she was answering. And it got us here today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Financial peace, baby. And a financial peace employee. There we go. That's how this happens. Okay. Wow. Look at y'.

[Caller or Female Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm so proud of y'.

[Caller or Male Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you, man.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your mom and dad gotta be proud too.

[Caller or Female Caller]

I think so. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're all happy. I mean, y' all went kinda freaky, though. I mean, you went after this mortgage. Were people making fun of you outside of here? I know in here they cheer you on, right?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yeah, they were making fun of us, but they were definitely like, you know, this isn't the wisest decision on paper. And I was like, yeah, but it's like the best decision for us.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah. It's always, you know, the answer is always just, we're solving for people piece, you know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Female Caller]

And that was important. So.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

How many hours a week at the height of all this were you guys putting in total?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Probably like 70. Probably 15 to 20@chick fil A.

[Ken Coleman]

And so you guys were working together

[Caller or Female Caller]

at the same Chick fil A?

[Caller or Male Caller]

You worked in the back of the house. I worked in the front of the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it was.

[Caller or Female Caller]

It was so fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was.

[Caller or Male Caller]

It's a blast. So shout out to her. Chick fil A.

[Ken Coleman]

Why was that? Why was that so fun?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Well, I've never Worked in food. So I was like, they just seem so happy. Like, whatever they've got going on, I want to be a part of that. So on our honeymoon, I was like, can we please get jobs at Chick Fil A? And then we did, and it was so fun.

[Ken Coleman]

I think that's fantastic. I gotta tell you, of all the couple.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is a strange honeymoon festival. It really is, baby. Can we get chops at Chick Fil a?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

But you guys, it cuts your food budget, I imagine.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yeah. They feed you every time you work. So, like, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, like, meals free. Checked off the list. Free meal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I knew that was part of it. I could just tell.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Are you saying something about, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. I mean, you look like a great diet to me.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I'm just saying, when you both decide to work at Chick Fil a and you're Gazelle Intense, you have figured out that there's some free food in here.

[Caller or Female Caller]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

And that's a really good deal. That's better than rice and beans. No offense, Dave. Chick Fil a chicken is.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's pretty good. Jesus. Chicken trumps it for sure. That's true. You guys. Amazing. Way to go. All right, now. So when people say, how did you pay off your house at 27 years old? What do you tell them?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, I mean, there's the obvious, you know, get on the every dollar budget. That was something from the get go. We had to make sure we knew where every dollar was going. Otherwise this doesn't happen. So that was. Yeah, everybody says that. But I would say biggest thing for me is just taking time to be grateful throughout the journey. Looking back on and how blessed we are, how blessed we're able to have jobs, we're able to have side gigs, and we hit a milestone, and we're just thankful to God that he put us in a spot where we can do this. So that was big for me.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yeah, I think it was really fun to lock arms in the first year of marriage. And we are naive. Life's gonna get hard, but it does feel like we can accomplish anything together. So that was kind of like being on the same page. Was really, really fun to get together.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's obvious that you guys were really dialed in together and there wasn't one of you dragging the other one along. And that's. You're right. You can take on anything. If you do that, you can do anything you want to do. So I'm so proud of y'.

[Caller or Male Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very, very well done. Very well done. What was the hardest part?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yeah, we were thinking about this question. There were definitely some nights, like, when you're in the grind of, like, Thursday night, we're eating chicken again, again, and we're like, I've got to go make chicken after this. He's. He's got to go sell chicken after this. And we were just exhausted. So we were looking at each other and we were like, we're shells of humans. Like, is this worth it? So there were moments of really, really hard. But you get a good night's sleep and you wake up and you can go again the next day.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, I can handle that. But I think the biggest. The hardest thing for me was I am traditionally a spender. So when we have most of our budget going towards throwing it at this every month, I'm like, ah, dang it. You know, I can. I can't go buy a new pair of shoes or something like that. So it was hard to have that discipline and to just say no to a lot of things.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you got there, you did, and now you're so worth it. What's the first big thing you're gonna do to celebrate? I mean, you got your.

[Ken Coleman]

I think, have a cheeseburger, huh?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

No more chicken.

[Ken Coleman]

No more chicken.

[Dave Ramsey]

In and out. Burger, baby. Going across the street.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, we. Well, we kind of already celebrate. We went to. We kind of redid our honeymoon. We went to Universal Studios in Orlando last month. And so we. We had that kind of. We, like, cash flowed that and did that before we even, you know, had

[Caller or Female Caller]

made the last payment.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Exactly. So we did that. But, yeah, we'll save up for a new car. My car is getting old and, you know, boost up everything outside of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you driving?

[Caller or Male Caller]

I'm driving a 2008, like, little Infiniti SUV. It has 250,000 miles.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Caller or Female Caller]

And he wants a Ford Raptor. So that's next.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's.

[Caller or Male Caller]

That's great.

[Ken Coleman]

So here's what I want people to hear this, obviously. How long is it going to take you to save up for the Raptor now that you're debt free?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Eight months to 12 months, I would say.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, it'd probably be a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Because we.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Because we'll let off the gas. We'll not work as much of Chick Fil A. Like, we'll relax a little bit, but we'll get there eventually.

[Ken Coleman]

You say that until he wants that Raptor a little early.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's identified that he's driving a piece of crap. So that's good. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I like that.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Obviously, it'll be a used one. Dave, you know about these. These cars are.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've heard about them. Heard about, heard the rumor. Yeah. Yeah. I'm proud of y'.

[Caller or Female Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, guys. You're rock stars. This is absolutely amazing. Very well done. Josh and Holly Ramsay solutions team members. And apparently Chick Fil a team member. $175,000 paid off house and everything. At 27 years old in 18 months of marriage, man. Don't tell me you can't do it when you're Gen Z. Then these guys are just going, mic drop, count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Three, two, one.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're debt free. Yeah, Man. Makes me proud he's working here.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

What a sharp guy, man. No question. We knew that already. But you put all that underpinning, all that foundation under it. My gosh.

[Ken Coleman]

And let me point out that when you marry someone that is aligned with

[Dave Ramsey]

you financially and that is sharper than you.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's true too. I wasn't going to say that part, but hey, that is really cool to see their values align and now look at them.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Boom. Sa,

[Dave Ramsey]

Your personal and professional growth hinge on one skill more than anything else. It's communication. And we're excited about this new book. Stop talking. Start communicating. That I did. It's now available for pre order. The book unpacks the discip. Dis. I can't say it. Disk accessories. The disc and shows you the results of your test. So you get the test and the book. You can Pre order for $34.99 and $30 in pre order bonus items, including the ebook and an additional assessment for your friend or your spouse if you've never taken this. We use it inside the company here when we're hiring. And then we put the results on each person's wall. So when you walk up to the area that they're sitting in or into their office, you see how they think, whether they're a D, I S or a C. And without going into the full teaching on it, I took the test, I think 40 years ago or so. The first time I was in a volunteer thing at a church and the church said, hey, take this. And I read it, the results. And I went, whoa. This. Read my mail. And so I came home. It was the first time I'd ever seen an assessment like this. I came home and I handed it to my wife and I said, look at this thing. This thing is amazing. And she read it and she said, uh huh, uh huh. That's what's wrong with you. No, that is me. Wait a minute. So there's a lot of ways you can assess and tell what the way people think and the way they tic. None of them are perfect and none of them are a fix all. But if you know how someone is wired, it's easier to communicate with them. And if you think through for a minute, you'll know how they're wired. And this book will help you do that. Stop talking. Start communicating. You can pre order [e-mail] store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast you can click the link in the subscription the Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by why Refi Defaulted private student loans don't fix themselves, but you can fix them them. Why refi helps you refinance into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget so you can get back to the baby steps and move forward. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states today's question

[Ken Coleman]

comes from Kyle in Kentucky. My wife and I have been told by our financial planner that it's better to invest in the market than to pay off your mortgage if the interest rate is less than your average rate of return in the market. He explained that market gains can be used to pay lump sums on the principle of your mortgage to pay off your home sooner that way. Is this the best course of action? Well Kyle, I don't know if you've been listening to us for a while. If you have, you know our answer. If you haven't. There's a reason why Dave developed the baby steps many, many years ago because of the momentum. And the strategy actually pays off off because it's disciplined action. And so the answer is we disagree with your financial planner. That's a numbers game. It's a manipulations fancy math to try to make you feel good to invest with the financial planner when the discipline of the old Dave, you've used the adage so many times. The the tortoise always beats the hare, right? The idea of just discipline action. And so then, then there's the other

[Dave Ramsey]

thing that the financial planner's math is just, it's not fancy, it's just wrong. Yeah, right. Okay, so if you make 10% on your investments and your mortgage is 4 or 5%, he's saying you make 6% difference and that you're going to get out of debt faster. Well that's wrong because he left out a key mathematical figure in this equation. This equation is very naive and very primitive and very simplistic. If you did a sophisticated analysis of this, you would factor in risk. And risk is not factored in here. You just took risk. You put money in the stock market, which is risk. You didn't pay off your mortgage, which is risk. And so you've, if you take, if you adjust for risk and taxes, because you do pay taxes, by the way, on that investment return. So it's investment returns that you're going to lump sum and throw at this are taxable investment returns. So you didn't, he didn't adjust for taxes and he didn't adjust for risk. So your financial planner is full of crap is the problem. And it's typical financial planner. Too many of them are this naive, this primitive, this unsophisticated. And so when you adjust for risk and taxes, there is no benefit. And here's the way you know this in your heart, Kyle. Let's pretend your house was paid for. And your financial planner says, hey, you should go borrow $300,000 on your house and give it to me to invest in a good mutual fund and I'll make 10, 11, 12% on it. And you can borrow that money at 3 or 4% and you'll make the difference. It's the exact same discussion mathematically. But when you say you want me to borrow on my paid for house, you know what happens? Your heart jumps, which is where you measure risk. You do math in your head. You measure risk in your heart.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Heart.

[Dave Ramsey]

And your heart skips a beat and goes, not just no, but hell no, I'm not borrowing on my house. It's paid for, you idiot. Why would I borrow on my house to invest with you? And it's the exact same equation. So when you reverse it that way, it makes you realize this guy's not playing with a full deck. He's not got all the parts of the math equation in there. So yeah, you need a new financial plan. This guy's more worried about what you invest with him than he is what you're going to end up with. At the end of the day, you're going to end up with a lot more with a paid for house and increased cash flow that you can invest in good mutual funds, which is what I have done. What Ken has done, what all the Ramsey personalities have done, what millions and millions of people have done that became baby steps millionaires. And they didn't have your financial planner. So you need one that can do math. You got left out. The arrogance of these guys ass. It's unbelievable. Tim is in New Jersey. Hey Tim, what's up?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Hi. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller or Male Caller]

So I'm a baby step five now, so I'm debt free. I do have a car lease. That's the only thing that I my.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well then you're not in baby step five. You have debt on your car.

[Caller or Male Caller]

You're right. So I have two questions. One, if I should pay it off. But my main question is the reason why is because I would like to have a nice car. I can afford it, but it's going to come out. More money is going to be a bigger headache for me to have to sell it and everything like that. And I don't have a big payment on it compared to what I make. But my main concern is my wife is very concerned when it comes to spending. So we used to be had a lot of debt and I paid everything. Well and.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you paid off everything but the car.

[Caller or Male Caller]

True. Okay, so let's say I pay off the car. I, I will pay off the car, but I, I make enough for my wife to be able to spend nicely for like, for stuff, personal stuff. I work at night as well. So I, I do music and I work at night.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller or Male Caller]

So I make 170 after taxes, roughly. So it's not him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good card. Good for you. And you have no debt except the car lease and you're paying it off. Good. Okay. And what is it? How much is it? Your wife, how much is it? Your wife has trouble spending how much money?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Like any, any purchase that is like, like 250, $300 for clothes or something like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, if you do a detail, if you do a detailed budget where every dollar has an assignment before the month begins and she's in agreement with that budget, she'll be able to look at that budget and say if I spend this $250 on some clothing, we still have the money for groceries, we still have the money for investing in retirement, we still have the money for X, Y or Z. And as long as she knows she's okay, she can spend it. But when it's all discombobulated and it's just kind of swimming around in your head and you don't have a detailed plan, she doesn't know it's okay to spend it. When we were broke, Tim, Sharon and I would go to the grocery store and when we're buying groceries to feed Our family, we wondered because we didn't have a budget, we didn't have a plan, we wondered if we just spent the money to keep the lights on at the house. So it was stressful to buy groceries. That's what your wife is experiencing. But once we had a plan, we said, this much is for groceries, this much is for electricity, this much is for the house payment. And we have that plan laid out. Then when we spend money on groceries, we're not stressed because we know it's a part of an overall plan and we're going to be okay. She needs to know she's going to be okay if she spends this money mathematically.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And hang on the line. We're going to give you Rachel's book. It's number one bestseller. Know yourself, know your money. My guess is your wife's background. In other words, the environment, environment she grew up in, plus her experience with money to this point is shaping some of that fear. I think that book will help.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of the Front Row Seat show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co host today. Josh is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Josh, how are you?

[Caller or Male Caller]

I'm great, David. It's a pleasure to talk to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too, man. Well, what's up?

[Caller or Male Caller]

So, hi.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Question.

[Caller or Male Caller]

We're in okay shape financially, the wife and I. We have combined finances and I've got some extra side hustle cash that I've got coming in. And usually I just use that to play golf or buy some beer or do whatever and, you know, no questions asked. But I want to start, like surprising her maybe with a trip here or there. Just something that's a little bit more than just a, you know, you don't pay for it in cash. You might need a debit card or something like that. That. So I guess my question is without opening another account, what's the best way for me to go about doing that? Surprising her while also, you know, making sure our finances kind of stay together and in one place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What's your household income?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Right now? We're at about, you know, 140, 150, I would say.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt have you all got?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Nothing but the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Well done. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, you, you certainly can do whatever you want to do. You're not doing a bad job. You're managing. Well. What Sharon and I have done and what we teach is, is that all monies are combined. Okay. Now then that begs the Question. How do you surprise Sharon with something? Okay. Or how do you surprise your wife with something? And if it's all in the budget, it's kind of of boring. It's all, you know, surprise. There's your surprise fund, you know, and so, you know, the way it ends up working at our place, honestly, we do a lot of travel today particularly. It's kind of one of our things we're doing at this stage of our life. And so in my case, I've actually figured out my wife does not like surprises. So that's a little different. But aside from that, that she does not want to do all the detailed work of planning the trip. And so we would have, in our case, you know, maybe a modified way of our thing into. You would just be that, you know, you could have a surprise line item in the budget. This is money. I'm a sinking fund. That is for me to surprise you with. And I'm going to do different things. And we might, I might buy a trip or I might buy you something else or whatever. And the fact that the money is in the budget is not a surprise, but the item or whatever I buy is going to be a surprise because it's a surprise. It's a surprise fund. That's what it's for. And you guys are grown ups. You're not four years old. So you know, that probably will work good enough. If she has to be like tricked into thinking you have money, you don't have that one. I'm not good with that idea.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah.

What's about tricking her?

[Caller or Female Caller]

It's just.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but I'm just saying, you know, you got to hide it from her so she's surprised.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's the surprise when you reveal that you have booked the trip or the surprise when you just put her in the car and say, hey, we're headed to the airport. What level are we talking about?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Well, I mean, like, yeah, it'd be nice that, you know, I don't think we'd get as far as. Because we have, you know, a child and all that. It's like, we can't. I can't just put her in the car and say, hey, we're headed to the airport. But it'd be nice to have something booked a few months out and then go to her a couple weeks in advance and say, hey, you know that free weekend that we have, it's not free because we've got something.

[Ken Coleman]

That's great.

[Caller or Male Caller]

You can do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you can do that with a, an anonymous category. We can name it whatever we want to name it. Anonymous trips or surprise trips or surprise for this. I like doing this for you as husband to wife. And so I'm going to put it in the budget and I'm going to give it a name. I don't care what it is.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, we got. We have so many friends. Like, you know, we've talked about it. Sam and Jade Orshaw. I mean, Sam we talked about on the show recently, Sam, they put money in their budget away for each other. And it's just. This is Jade's fun category. It's his fun category. Well, Sam never spends his. And he just stacks and stacks and stacks and he does something really awesome. So you could do it that way too, where as long as it's in the budget, we're communicating and it's like this. This is the old blow envelope is what this is. And if it stacks up, then you can surprise her with that. So there's a lot of ways to

[Dave Ramsey]

do it, but I'm always putting side hustle money in the brain budget.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Period. I'm not. Not going to run it as a side.

[Ken Coleman]

No, not a separate account.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm saying item. I know. I'm just. That's what he was doing. I'm not going to do that.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, but it's, you know, certainly up to you, Josh. It's. It's a, you know, and again, we've been married 43, almost 44 years, and so there's very little that surprises.

[Sponsor or Guest Speaker]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

That is a different deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

I agree. So it's like she's not four.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not like, you know, it's hard

[Ken Coleman]

to surprise him even for.

[Dave Ramsey]

She doesn't even like a surprise birthday party, this woman. What about a gift?

[Ken Coleman]

Does Sharon tell you what she wants for her birthday or do you surprise her with that?

[Dave Ramsey]

I surprise her with that. Yeah. And most of the stuff that we do on a trip, I mean, she may know the location and the date. Right. But most everything else, she's like, yeah, surprise me.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, that's fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So she wakes up and you're like, here's the agenda.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's what we're doing. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

It's of kind. Great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the plan.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right up here.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, I got a plan.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, believe me, from sun up to sundown.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's ridiculous, but it's fun. Jack is in New York City. Hey, Jack, what's up? Hey, guys.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help.

[Caller or Male Caller]

So about three years ago, I took out a SBA 7A loan to purchase specialty coffee roasting business. And now that I'm about three years into this loan, there's about 100 grand left. It's a 9.75% interest rate. And I feel like I'm finally catching my breath a little bit with this. So I'm trying to figure out where I should start putting any extra money I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Catching your breath meaning you're just now profitable.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what kind of profit are we expecting in the coming 12 months?

[Caller or Male Caller]

It's about 20% of our revenue. Our revenue last year was 660,000 and we're projected to do about a million this year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you may make 200 grand. And is this a side hustle or is this your full time gig?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Full time gig.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so what are you all living on? What's your, what's it take for you all to live out of this?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, so last year we brought home about $77,000 and you lived on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does your wife work outside of that?

[Caller or Male Caller]

This? No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you lived on 80 grand last year?

[Caller or Male Caller]

About, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you made 200 and you lived on 80 grand this year, you could pay off the loan.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

200 minus 8 is 120. The loans. 100. Right, right. Okay,

[Caller or Male Caller]

so do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why not? Why would you keep this loan around?

[Caller or Male Caller]

It's not a. Yeah, yeah, no, I, I, I get what you're saying. It's. Yeah, okay, that makes sense.

[Ken Coleman]

So hold on. Weigh that really quick with what you were thinking about doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

What were you, what were you thinking of?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Well, we're actually looking to move into a new space. The spot that we're in right now is very small and that's obviously going to be another expense. It's going to cost about 60 grand to get the new space build out. So what I was actually thinking was, was potentially refinancing this loan because the interest rate is so high, I could get six and a half percent. If I were to say, to take out another $150,000 loan and then I'd have $50,000 of capital to put towards the build out.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then the more, the more debt that you have in business, the more unstable and unsustainable you are. The less debt you have, the more sustainable you are. So I would go with everything you're talking about doing, only I would just pay off the, the loan first and then I would cash flow the move.

[Ken Coleman]

And wait till you feel how easy it is to Breathe then.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And if you have this move completely, cash flowed and you, you've expanded. Now you're making 300 grand and you got no payments in the world. And we're what, 24 months, 36 months from now? It's a lot better place to be in business. It's too volatile out there, man. It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way, they can take the stress off your shoulders once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait. Ramsey trusted pros can book up fast. Go to ramseysolutions.com taxpro to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com taxpro. If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using EveryDollar. It's more than just a budgeting app. It is now the whole plan, the Ramsey plan, built right in. You track your progress. You get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that'll help you free up more money and work the plan faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App store or Google Play. Adam is in Seattle. Hey, Adam, what's up?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Oh, hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it. It so I just feel lost in life. You know, I am 26 years old, I have no degree, I'm unemployed, and I haven't been able to hold down a job since I graduated high school. I've had 10 jobs and. Yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

What is your assessment? And give me a single one or two words at most. Well, what has kept you from holding down these jobs? What is it?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Just a lot of. A lot of. I think it was a learned helplessness and then also just a lot of anxiety. And

[Ken Coleman]

did you self. Did you self sabotage?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so what's it. What's at the core? And again, don't worry about how you word it. Just be as gut level honest as you can. What do you think is at the core of all this anxiety, this fear, this worry?

[Caller or Male Caller]

It's my fault. I took ownership of it. I just don't know how to move forward.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the first Way to move forward is to realize that you're not a failure. And I think it would make a lot of sense for somebody in your shoes at 26 who's never had anything stick, doesn't feel like you've had much stick in your life. Is that a fair assumption?

[Dave Ramsey]

Last one,

[Caller or Male Caller]

things haven't really been. It hasn't been sticking. And yeah, I think it's just the severe anxiety that I have and I am in therapy for that.

[Ken Coleman]

So are you making progress? Do you feel like you're making progress in therapy?

[Caller or Male Caller]

I want to believe that, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So let me tell you right now, instead of this big philosophical and big strategy answer, I think you just need a win. And I think you need to redefine what winning looks like. And I think winning, if I were going to prescribe something to you is go get a job and go get the hardest job you can get. I mean that, I don't mean something that pays you very little. I mean hard working, maybe some manual labor, working the trades and, and have one clear win. And that is I'm going to keep showing up. I'm not going. I'm not a screw up up, therefore I'm not going to screw up. And I got one thing. I'm going to show up and I'm going to keep a clean nose. I'm going to do what they tell me. I'm going to learn. I'm going to learn how to do more. I'm going to be hungry and I'm going to keep showing up and I'm going to put one month, two months and three months. And while you're getting this therapy, I think you need to do something really, really hard because I think you need to prove to yourself that you've got grit and that you're actually tough and that you're not a victim. But I want to bring Dave because I know he's got some great insight on this too, but I'm trying to simplify for him to get him a win. Dave, what are your thoughts?

[Dave Ramsey]

Where's your family?

[Caller or Male Caller]

So I am with a relative of mine. I live with a relative of mine.

[Caller or Female Caller]

And

[Dave Ramsey]

what relative? Uncle, aunt, brother, sister, What?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah, uncle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Okay. Where's your mom and dad. Physically? Where are they located?

[Caller or Male Caller]

They're located like in the same city. It's just where, you know, I failed and I haven't been a really good son. So. Yeah, I'm not, I don't really talk to my mom much. But yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

What did you call for today? What did you want from Dave?

[Caller or Male Caller]

And I. I just feel. I feel lost in life and, like, because I'm 26 and, you know, have no degree, you know, it's. I'm just trying to.

[Ken Coleman]

No, listen, I can tell you right now, you're so ashamed of yourself. You are just covered in shame. So Dave and I aren't therapists. I'm glad you're with a therapist. I cannot preach that. Do the hard work. Keep digging in. Don't stop that. But I'm going to go back to what I think. I think instead of. I don't think someone who's in your state of mind can have great clarity. But I'm going to give you a resource. I'm going to give you my book. Find the work you're wired to do. I want you to take the assessment, but I'm going to caution you that I think you're so down on yourself and you are so loaded down with shame that I think you're going to have to do a few little things at a time to build up. Up belief in yourself. And that's why I'm prescribing hard work. I mean, like brick crew working on a construction site to where your body aches all day, and you just get some confidence to go, I'm showing up doing the hardest work possible. I really believe that's what you ought to try. Try for 90 days and get that back stiffened up to say, I just did the hardest work on the planet for 18, 20, 22, 25 bucks an hour. Hard work.

[Sponsor or Guest Speaker]

Work.

[Ken Coleman]

Two jobs don't do anything but work and stack up some cash for the whole purpose of beginning to believe that you're not an utter failure. That's what I'm. That's what I think you ought to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So this is a real hard assignment. Get a job doing anything that's tough and show up every single day and work your butt off. Yeah, you can do that. You can do that. And stop partying. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Build some grit.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're partying your butt off, aren't you? Yeah. That's gotta stop. You're killing yourself, man. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's. It's dripping off of you. So if I was you, I'd plug into a great church and get some men that are walking with God, that are clean, they're sober, and they'll walk alongside you, put their arm around your shoulder and kick your little butt and get you in a job and hold you accountable for staying clean and working your butt off. And you got to get. You got to get a Community. That's different. The community you're running in is a bunch of losers.

[Ken Coleman]

Amen.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're gonna become who you hang around with. So you need to change who you're hanging around with, and you're gonna. That's a mess. So, yeah, the thing is, this Ken's prescription, I think, is exactly right. You need some wins, you need some confidence and some dignity. But that means you gotta walk away from the stuff that's been taking it from you. Yeah. And that's the partying. And the reason you're not showing up at work is you're hungover, you're strung out. You can't wait for happy hour, can't wait for smoke another joint while I'm on the job. Of course you're getting your butt fired. No kidding. You can't pass a drug test. And so that's what's going on. I mean, so you step in there and you stay clean, dude. And I'm telling you, get a whole new crew to run with. Get into a good church. That's why I was asking you about family. And so the reason your family is upset with you is not because you're a bad son. It's cause they love you and they hate watching you destroy yourself with your bad habits. That's what they're. They're not mad at you.

[Caller or Male Caller]

You.

[Dave Ramsey]

That they love you, and they. And they can't stand watching you kill yourself. So what? I would just walk away from that stuff and go completely clean and just. Let's go for a whole new direction. I mean, we're going from drunk to monk right now, man. I mean, game on. Time to make a move. Right? You got to make a shift here. And if you do something radical like that for 90 days, you can do all kinds of stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

It's absolutely right. Absolutely right. And. And I. I can't say this enough. At some point after the 90 days, I want you to do something that you're afraid of doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Something that you're afraid of. That's like, really a stretch. I don't mean something stupid financially. I just mean something you're afraid of,

[Dave Ramsey]

which right now is everything.

[Ken Coleman]

It is. But I. I cannot tell you how much hard work will do for the soul.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You know where. And by the way, your only goal, by the way, is stack as much cash as you can in that days.

[Dave Ramsey]

Staying clean. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Get a goal.

[Dave Ramsey]

Staying clean. I think you can do this, Adam.

[Ken Coleman]

I know you can.

[Dave Ramsey]

I really don't think it's as bad as your brain has told you it is. But yeah, you're gonna have to walk away from some stuff and towards some new stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you want a different recipe, if you want a different thing, you gotta change the recipe. Keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect a different result. That's the definition of insanity. That's what the 12 Steppers say. And they're quoting Einstein, by the way.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Sam.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. One of our own Ramsey Solutions team members, Brandon Ray and his wife Madison to do a debt free scream. Welcome, guys.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Hey, how's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, man. How are y' all doing?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. So how much debt have you two paid off?

[Caller or Male Caller]

118,000.

[Sponsor or Guest Speaker]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how long did that take?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Four years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. And you've been here about four years, right?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Tell folks what you do here at Ranch Ramsey.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Software engineer. Untrusted.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so if you're getting a tax. Getting help from a tax pro or real estate agent, it's very likely that Brandon Ray might have written the code.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

That caused you to be able to do that. So that's how it works now. Way to go, guys. Well, congratulations. What kind of debt was the 118,000?

[Caller or Male Caller]

So we had two cars, student loans, four credit cards. We also owed some family some money. Money.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you were normal.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Normal, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long you two been married?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Almost ten years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so where did you move? Did you move from somewhere to come here four years ago?

[Caller or Male Caller]

No, we're from here.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're from here?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so you join the Ramsey thing and around here the peer pressure is all positive to get you out of debt. It's the opposite of most places.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, it's kind of over the top. It's like, like a cult or something. So. Yeah, but the. Yeah. So we're pushing you because we love you to get out of debt. Everybody in the whole team's cheering you on, right?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you didn't have a choice hardly but to get on the plan, right?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so, Madison, did you know what your husband was getting into when he joined this place?

[Caller or Female Caller]

No.

No, I didn't know we were joining a cult.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's okay.

[Caller or Female Caller]

It's the good kind of cult.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a good one.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's good ones, there's bad ones. We're one of the good ones. Yeah. I think that's awesome. So you guys decided about the time you came to work here. Okay. We're going to attack this debt.

[Caller or Male Caller]

It was kind of a little bit before that. It was like, hey, I've been. Well, I'll go back a little bit. My mom actually introduced us to you when we were. When I was like a little kid. We were listening to you and Susie Orman, and we were doing all sorts of stuff there, and she introduced me to, like, the envelope system and all sorts of stuff, but, like a kid, you know, I didn't listen to any of it until. Until well into our marriage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Male Caller]

And I was like, hey, you know,

[Dave Ramsey]

and by then, you're normal. You got all this debt.

[Caller or Male Caller]

And I'm like, oh, crap, we're starting to have kids and things are starting to stack up and we need some room. And then I was already starting to look into the baby steps, and then I was like, hey, I really want to work here, too. So that. That kind of went hand in hand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. So, Madison, how did you. How did you play into this story?

[Caller or Female Caller]

He suggested, and I followed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was that simple, huh? Yeah.

[Caller or Female Caller]

I love my husband. And.

[Dave Ramsey]

Could you teach a class on that, please?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Bible 101.

[Ken Coleman]

So no questions at all? No struggles with it? You just were like, okay, well, I.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Just a little bit of kicking and screaming.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay.

[Caller or Female Caller]

When he told me I had to stop ordering the cheese dip at, you know, the Mexican restaurant, I got a

little frustrated, but, yeah, because she's more

[Caller or Male Caller]

of a dreamer, and I'm working of a realist, so it's like, she comes to me with dreams, and I'm like, there's no room in the budget, so we need to, like, do some work to make those.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dreamer and dream killer.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And apparently queso killer as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Killer. Whoa. That's worse than dream killer. Wow.

[Caller or Male Caller]

It is.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Hey, but we're debt free, so we could have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, now we can get the case.

[Ken Coleman]

She's bought in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now we got it. Okay, so what do y' all tell people? The secret to getting out of debt is 118,000 in four years. So, you know, we did, like, $25,000, $30,000 a year. Right, yeah. That's pretty substantial.

[Caller or Male Caller]

It's doing lots of late nights. We did. I did two side jobs to make that happen. So it was. It was a lot. And you gave up a lot because you had to, like, get the kids to bed, do different things. It was. It was a lot of sacrifice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Queso and queso.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yeah, a lot of missed out queso.

[Caller or Male Caller]

So there was just a lot of. A lot of sacrifices, a lot of late nights, a lot of coming. Coming here, eating beans and rice. The taco bar looks really good on Tuesday, but lots of beans and rice.

[Caller or Female Caller]

We ate a lot of beans.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Lots and lots and lots.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, yes.

[Caller or Male Caller]

So that was probably the hardest part, too, is like giving up time with the kids, giving up time with family at night and giving up just. We like food.

[Dave Ramsey]

So was it worth it now that you're free?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

How's it feel now that you don't have any debt except the house?

[Caller or Male Caller]

It was weird at first because it's like, oh, is it. Is it over? Is it actually over?

[Caller or Female Caller]

It doesn't feel real yet.

[Caller or Male Caller]

And then, yeah, it's still kind of getting to that real part. But it's like, hey, wait a second. We can actually. The kids want to go do something, we can do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Caller or Male Caller]

It's not a no immediately. It's like, yes, we can go do that.

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

For a guy who works here, you know it, you've lived it, you've done it. Now what do you say to people that this is the key to winning on this debt free journey?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Well, you got yourself into it, you got to get yourself out of it. Just do it. Put in the. The work, get it done.

[Ken Coleman]

Love that.

[Dave Ramsey]

What about you, Madison? What do you say the secret to getting out of debt is a lot

[Caller or Female Caller]

of patience and a lot of trusting your partner a lot. There has to be good communication between both of you about where your money's going, all those random subscriptions that you forget you have to be cancelled and.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. It's a constant thing. Yeah. Way to go, guys. I'm so proud of you.

[Caller or Male Caller]

You.

[Dave Ramsey]

So proud of you. I know your parents are proud of you. I tried to get you to do this 20 years ago. Now you're really doing it. That's good. That's good. It's very good. Very good. Well, congratulations, y'. All. Congratulations. And thanks for being on the team. We appreciate it. And when the taco bar is open, you get all the queso you want. Okay? Okay. And it's your birthday.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

No way. Well, happy birthday. Very smart.

[Ken Coleman]

Quite the present. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

How are we celebrating tonight?

[Caller or Male Caller]

We're going to ice cream after this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, there we go. There we go. That's good.

[Ken Coleman]

Two scoops. Two scoops are okay today.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Maybe a waffle cone.

[Caller or Male Caller]

Yeah,

[Dave Ramsey]

let's go crazy.

[Ken Coleman]

That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like it. Very well done. All right, Brandon and Madison from the Ramsey Solutions team living right here in Nashville. $118,000 paid off in four years. Oh, what are the kiddos names and ages?

[Caller or Male Caller]

We got Beckett is five, Cecilia seven, and Adeline is five months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, perfect. Very cool. And they look like they've been practicing their debt free scream. Yes. So they're y' all ready to do your debt free scream? Are you ready, Adeline? Ready to do it? All right, count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free. That's how it's done. Wow, man, that is fabulous. Congratulations, you guys. Well, and the team's out here cheering them on.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a good news about the team here. They love each other and they're always praying for each other, helping each other, you know, passing on tips and encouragement and everything else versus tearing you down, down. And it's one of the beauties of the culture. And at Ramsey, I'm real proud of our team and how many of them came out. You can see them if you're watching on the YouTube. Man, that's a huge number of people come out to cheer them on. So very cool stuff. And isn't it interesting that you can grow up right here in the shadow almost of this building and mom telling you to do this stuff and then you look up in your $118,000 in debt and you're married and we've been married five years and oh, this is not working. Working. And oh, I got to do it too. And then joins our team four years ago and actually applies this stuff and goes crazy. So the interesting thing is with all this stuff, it's just a matter of a decision or three to decide. I'm not going to do that anymore. I am going to do this, I'm not going to do that. I am going to do this. And this is I'm identifying what works, what doesn't work, and I'm going to plug into what works. I'm going to walk away from the things that don't work and this, you know, using these credit cards to get my airline miles. Bull crap. You know, I'm not I'm not paying attention to what we're spending at restaurants. I'm not paying attention. And then all of a sudden, boom, it gets serious and everybody turns their life around.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, it's interesting, when I asked Brandon the key to get out of debt, he said, you got yourself into this, now you got to get yourself out. Really ties into our last call. That young man who had, you know, done some things where he created all this shame and guilt, and he's telling us multiple times he's lost. And it's very similar to people that feel lost financially because they just do what the culture kind of tells them is normal to do, and they wake up one day and they feel lost, stuck financially.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And the advice is so great. You got yourself in it, you got to get yourself out. There's a lot of empowerment there. So great message to a lot of you that are new to the show and are a lot of debt. And you're just feeling like this is a pipe dream. It's really not. It's that simple. That mindset and crazy discipline that you heard there. So you can do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Larry Burkett used to say it takes you about as long to get out as it did to get in. So if you spend three years making the mess, it takes you about three years to fix the mess. And my experience has been different than Larry's. Yeah, I think maybe because we've got the whole Gazelle intensity thing going.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's roughly about half. So you figure if it took you five years to make the mess, it probably going to take you two and a half to get out of intensity. And so how quick do you clean up the mess? In their case, they cleaned it up in four years. Took them about six years to make the mess. They've been married 10. So that's how it worked out. Very interesting. Proud of you guys. Well done.

[Sponsor or Guest Speaker]

Hey, good folks. Dr. John Deloney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it.

[Ken Coleman]

So guess what?

[Caller or Male Caller]

What?

[Sponsor or Guest Speaker]

Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope. We want to see your application. Right now we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job [e-mail] careers. That's ramseysolutions.com careers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 10, 23, 24. Let us hold unswervingly to the Hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. John F. Kennedy said, too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's really good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ouch. Ronnie is in San Jose. Hey Ronnie, what's up?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I've been listening for you guys for years. Well, thank you and I really appreciate your words of wisdom. So I'm going to be 59 in July and I'm trying to think how I'm going to retire. I'm working right now part time as a teacher and I own my house, but I don't think I can maintain the house here in California. I have a little farm and there's always something happening, you know, the septic system and then the well is going bad. So every time there's something else. So I'm not sure I can keep this house for retirement. And I was thinking to renovate it. I don't have enough cash to renovate the house and I was offered to take a heloc. And by listening for you for so many years, I know that you guys are not pro HELOC or taking any loans. So at this point I just don't know what to do. What's the best way to go?

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you thinking of doing?

[Caller or Female Caller]

I'm thinking to move to a different state. So either Nevada or Arizona or somewhere I can and old. You know this. It's too expensive here. There's no way we can stay here with the taxes and everything else. It's just crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

We, we. Are you married?

[Caller or Female Caller]

I'm not married. I'm single right now. My son lives with me and my adult son is gonna finish his studying, is gonna move out, but right now he's still with me. Yeah, I'm sure about moving to a different state because I don't think there's no way I can. I can retire where I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what is your property worth?

[Caller or Female Caller]

My Property is about 1:1.6.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well that'll buy a nice property in another place for sure.

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yeah, but I still need to leave me some nest egg for retirement because I don't have except the house and I have some money market.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you have in a money market?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Right now it's still collapsing, but it's about 600.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm. Okay. So if you sold your. I'm just thinking about the math only, not the emotions. But if you sold your property for a million six and you bought a property in another location for 600,000 and you paid cash and that give you a million dollars to invest for your nest egg. How would that sound?

[Caller or Female Caller]

I'm not sure. I'm only 59. Yeah, I'm not sure it's gonna take me all the way if I of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it'll take you all along. You don't make $100,000 a year now, do you?

[Caller or Female Caller]

I am definitely not doing $100,000 a year now.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do? No, she's a teacher.

[Ken Coleman]

Teacher.

[Caller or Female Caller]

I'm a teacher. But part time. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So what do you mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you just working part time?

[Caller or Female Caller]

You know, I've been, I've been working for so many years full time and I want to. To do other stuff, so I'm working part time.

[Ken Coleman]

How much does it take for you right now?

[Caller or Female Caller]

About 5,500. Per month?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How much it takes for you to live?

[Caller or Female Caller]

3,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you can work part time as a teacher somewhere else. So if you had a paid for house in another market and you put a million dollars or whatever, 800,000 in a good investment and you're working part time from 59 to 69, you'd be in great shape, wouldn't you?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yeah, but I don't want to work 69.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you're going to make some money somewhere.

[Caller or Female Caller]

It's too much. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I think your plan will work. It's just, you're just going to have to be limited on what you spend on the property that you're going to move into in the next state. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, look, if any, if, if the, the, the whole place is your oyster, if you can go anywhere, then I would go to a state that has no state income tax. I'd go to a place where I could buy something that's more than enough room in the $300,000, $350,000 range up to 600.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, up to 6. But I'm saying you don't have to spend 6 and invest the rest of that. That's going to do fantastic for you. It's going to double every seven years and you're going to be fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, just don't touch that nest egg and let it grow and you continue to do a little work, it won't kill you. You're not dying. You're 59. It's not like you're 89. And so yeah, there's a lot of stuff you can do here. But yeah, I got a feeling though that it's very emotional for you. To leave that farm and leave California after all these years. And so the math says to do what you're doing, but then you've got to decide if that's where you want to live and then the next place, whether it's Idaho or Nevada or Arizona, wherever you're going, you know, you need to go house shopping over there. Any buy an airline ticket and go over there and look at how houses and you know, start talking about, you know, where, where will they accept your teaching credentials so that you can teach part time over there? Create some income and then sit down with a Smartvestor Pro. Go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvestor and sit down with one of them and say gosh, If I put 800,000, a million dollars with you, what kind of income would that generate for me to live on in my retirement years? If I pay cash for a 5 or 600,000, $400,000 house, you're gonna have some taxes on this probably too. I don't know what you paid for that property, what your basis is, but either way that's still. That all makes a lot of sense. But I also have a sense that you're kind of stuck there emotionally and you're gonna have to unstick and what's kind of the process you're going through right now of going this is smart. It's gonna make me sad though to leave this farm after all these years. It's gonna make me sad to leave California after all these years. But they're tax and the cost of living is driving me out and you know, it's sad but that's a reality and people do it all the time. As a matter of fact, people have left California and New York and Chicago at record rates and have navigated to low tax states in the past eight years like never before in the history of the US Pretty crazy. It's like a reverse gold rush. You know in the old days there was all this migration to California in the 1800s, right? The gold, the famous gold rush. And now it's like a reverse thing. They're running away from running back to the gold, which is no longer there apparently. But yeah, or if it is, the government takes it. Yeah. So there's that and that's what's happening. Nicole is in Boise. Hi Nicole, how are you?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Hi, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Male Caller]

Up?

[Caller or Female Caller]

I'm trying to figure out if my ask to my husband is one realistic and two reasonable right now financially.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'll spit it out before we run out of time. What is it?

[Caller or Female Caller]

So we. I'm trying to figure. What we're doing is not working and we need a parent home with our three kids.

Kids?

I just don't know. I, I. After paying for daycare for the three kids, we. My income is $1,500 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Female Caller]

I don't know if it's realistic to ask him or if we can even financially afford for me to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you live on his income if you didn't have a daycare bill?

[Caller or Female Caller]

We're $500 a month short.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What do you do for a living on his income?

[Caller or Female Caller]

I do finance. Right now I am finishing my master's. I am done next month with my masters.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you got to stay home with three kids?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yeah. Well, the goal is, is to work remote from home teaching at an online school.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would that not make more than $500?

[Caller or Female Caller]

It would.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Female Caller]

The problem is that that wouldn't start until July without a paycheck until August. We have a thousand dollar rainy day fund right now and that's it. We don't have car payments, but we do have a little debt. And basically my last day of work is in April.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you already quit?

[Caller or Female Caller]

No. They need a full time person. I cannot do full time any longer and so I had to step back because of medical issues with my son.

[Dave Ramsey]

You already quit? You already quit?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and so, so you got to find some way to stop gap the difference between now and August, right?

[Caller or Female Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how many hours extra is he going to work to cover that?

[Caller or Female Caller]

He has offered to work one to two extra days a week.

[Dave Ramsey]

He doesn't have a choice. Somebody's got to feed your family. You all just made a decision. You just quit your job to go be with the kid that's sick, which I don't blame you. That sounds like the right thing to do. So you just got to find a stopgap and then you can make it work from there. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.