Don't Let Debt Happen To You—Face It Head-On

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Don't Let Debt Happen To You—Face It Head-On"

Episode Information:

• Title: Don't Let Debt Happen To You—Face It Head-On
• Host: Ramsey Network (George Camel)
• Co-Host: Rachel Cruz
• Description: The Ramsey Show empowers listeners to build wealth and take control of their lives, regardless of past financial mistakes. Host Dave Ramsey and his team of experts address top money-related problems, offering actionable advice to help listeners overcome challenges.
• Release Date: December 31, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, hosts George Camel and Rachel Cruz tackle pressing debt-related issues faced by listeners. From inheritance disputes to overwhelming consumer debt, the team provides compassionate and practical advice to help individuals regain financial stability.

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Caller Stories and Expert Advice

1. Olivia from Buffalo, New York – Inheritance Theft and Family Betrayal ([01:12] – [08:43])

Issue: Olivia confronts a devastating family betrayal where her sister exploited their sick mother by assuming power of attorney, transferring funds to herself, selling the family home, and neglecting their dying mother.

Advice:

• Legal Considerations: Olivia was advised to consult legal documentation, particularly the validity of the handwritten will which her sister attempted to alter but never signed. Without a signed will, legal redress is challenging.
• Emotional Well-being: The hosts emphasized the importance of Olivia prioritizing her peace and moving forward, acknowledging the emotional turmoil caused by the loss of her mother and sister.
• Practical Steps: Given the complexity and potential financial depletion due to legal fees, it was recommended that Olivia might not recover significant inheritance and should focus on rebuilding her financial foundation.

Notable Quote:

Olivia: "It's very sad. And you're in fact, right. I lost mom, dad and a sister." ([06:51])

2. Claire from Seattle, Washington – Investing at 18 ([10:16] – [13:44])

Issue: Claire, an 18-year-old high school senior, seeks guidance on starting her investment journey amidst various options like Roth IRAs and real estate.

Advice:

• Roth IRA Recommendation: George Camel recommended opening a Roth IRA and investing in a growth-oriented mutual fund, emphasizing the benefits of compound interest from a young age.
• Consistency Over Amount: Even if Claire can't max out her contributions, consistent investing is crucial.
• Future Planning: As Claire transitions into her career, exploring additional retirement accounts like a Roth 401(k) was suggested.

Notable Quote:

George Camel: "Invest into that Roth IRA in a good growth stock mutual fund... consistently putting money away is going to be your best bet at 18." ([12:17])

3. Brandon from Dallas, Texas – Overwhelming Consumer Debt from Real Estate Ventures ([14:08] – [19:37])

Issue: Brandon and his wife amassed $250,000 in consumer debt through aggressive real estate ventures that failed due to high leverage and rising interest rates, compounded by halted income streams.

Advice:

• Debt Repayment Strategy: Olivia emphasized the importance of committing to aggressive debt repayment, suggesting that Brandon and his wife would need to prioritize eliminating consumer debt over the next few years.
• Mindset Shift: Both hosts highlighted the necessity of a mindset change to avoid falling back into similar debt traps.
• Financial Tools: George Camel offered them access to Financial Peace University and the EveryDollar budgeting tool to structure their repayment plan effectively.

Notable Quote:

George Camel: "It may cost what, five to $10,000 for a lawyer, and I may not get anything after all." ([05:17])

4. Emma from San Bernardino, California – Toxic Workplace Environment ([20:51] – [25:08])

Issue: Emma is concerned about her husband's deteriorating work environment as a real estate agent, marked by his boss's inappropriate behavior and multiple lawsuits. She fears for his well-being and financial stability.

Advice:

• Immediate Action: Olivia and George advised Emma to encourage her husband to change brokerages, emphasizing his strong performance and marketability regardless of his current company's reputation.
• Boundaries and Well-being: Setting firm boundaries to protect personal and professional integrity was recommended.
• Support System: The importance of supporting her husband through the transition and prioritizing their family's well-being was underscored.

Notable Quote:

George Camel: "Put the life vest on and let's find him another job. He's a fantastic real estate agent." ([24:49])

5. Jeremy from Minneapolis, Minnesota – Money Etiquette at Restaurants ([25:23] – [29:40])

Issue: Jeremy faces challenges with restaurant servers misinterpreting his tips when leaving large bills and seeking excess change, causing discomfort during dining experiences.

Advice:

• Clear Communication: Olivia recommended being explicit about the change desired when leaving tips, such as requesting specific denominations.
• Preparation: Carrying smaller bills to facilitate accurate tipping was suggested.
• Mindset Shift: Encouraging Jeremy to remove feelings of shame by understanding that adequate tipping is not stingy but fair given the service provided.

Notable Quote:

Rachel Cruz: "I hate. I absolutely hate being manipulated." ([27:33])

6. Rusty from Mansfield, Ohio – Massive Debt Including Student Loans and Personal Loans ([25:23] – [50:12])

Issue: Rusty is burdened with $482,000 in debt, including $342,000 in student loans, $9,000 in credit cards, $34,000 in car loans, and nearly $98,000 personal loan secured by a house. Additionally, he is concerned about planning for a family amidst financial strain.

Advice:

• Immediate Debt Action: The hosts advised Rusty to make drastic financial changes, including selling cars and potentially the house to eliminate high-interest debts.
• Budgeting and Planning: Emphasized using tools like Financial Peace University and following The Ramsey Baby Steps to structure debt repayment and savings.
• Long-Term Strategy: Encouraged Rusty to align with his financial "why"—building a stable future for his growing family— to stay motivated and disciplined.

Notable Quote:

George Camel: "Your life at this rate is going to suck for 10 to 20 years. I don't want that for you. I want it to suck for two years because you got Gazelle Intense." ([49:38])

7. Seth from New Orleans, Louisiana – Family Envy and Boundary Setting ([57:39] – [71:33])

Issue: Seth experiences family envy and entitlement after his financial success following adherence to Dave Ramsey’s principles. Relatives constantly seek financial assistance, leading to tension and guilt.

Advice:

• Firm Boundaries: Olivia and George advised Seth to maintain clear financial boundaries, emphasizing that generosity should not become an obligation.
• Open Communication: Encouraged Seth to express his limitations honestly and offer non-monetary support, such as sharing financial education resources.
• Emotional Resilience: Reinforced that Seth is not at fault for his success and should prioritize his family's financial well-being over familial demands.

Notable Quote:

Olivia: "You have the right to set boundaries and protect your financial peace." ([70:18])

8. Dan from Chicago, Illinois – Retirement Housing Decisions ([73:04] – [80:19])

Issue: Dan, a pastor retiring soon, grapples with whether to purchase a modest home to build equity or continue renting, given his limited fixed income and existing savings.

Advice:

• Financial Assessment: George recommended conducting a thorough mortgage calculation to ensure affordability within his retirement budget.
• Saving for Down Payment: Suggested that Dan extend his working years to increase savings for a more substantial down payment, thereby reducing future mortgage burdens.
• Alternative Options: Olivia highlighted the potential benefits of renting and investing the difference to allow Dan’s nest egg to grow, providing more financial security in retirement.

Notable Quote:

George Camel: "If it's 800 a month, absolutely, it's not worth it because that's $10,000 a year." ([34:05])

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Host Insights and Strategies

Throughout the episode, the hosts reiterated foundational Ramsey principles:

• Baby Steps: Emphasizing the importance of following a structured debt repayment plan.
• Budgeting: Advocating for meticulous budgeting using tools like EveryDollar to track and allocate funds effectively.
• Emergency Funds: Encouraging listeners to build and maintain emergency savings to prevent future debt entanglements.
• Mindset Shift: Highlighting the necessity of altering financial mindsets to prioritize long-term stability over short-term gains.

Notable Quote:

Olivia: "Start with budgeting. Start with every dollar. It's so easy to plan out your spending and keep track of it every month." ([51:09])

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Conclusion

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, George Camel and Rachel Cruz addressed a spectrum of debt-related challenges faced by listeners. From navigating personal betrayals and overwhelming consumer debt to setting financial boundaries with family, the hosts provided actionable advice grounded in Dave Ramsey’s proven financial strategies. Emphasizing budgeting, disciplined debt repayment, and emotional resilience, the episode served as a comprehensive guide for listeners striving to overcome financial hardships and build a secure future.

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Additional Resources Mentioned:

• Financial Peace University: A program offering comprehensive financial education and strategies.
• EveryDollar Budgeting App: A tool for tracking and planning monthly budgets effectively.
• Financial Peace University and EveryDollar Premium: Offered to Brandon for his debt repayment plan.

Connect with Ramsey Solutions:

• Website: www.ramseysolutions.com
• Phone: [phone] (weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET)

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Transcript

[George Camel]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Salute Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by best selling author and all around great person, Rachel Cruz. And we are here for you, America, answering your questions about money and life and all of the predicaments and challenges and maybe some wins that you're facing. Triple 882-55-5225 is the number to call to join the conversation. Olivia kicks us off in Buffalo, New York. Olivia, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a huge fan of the Ramsey show, especially Dave. He's awesome.

[George Camel]

We agree.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Love him. So my question for you all today is my sister took advantage of our sick mom, skipped town and stole my inheritance. What should I do?

[Olivia]

Oh, my gosh.

[George Camel]

Olivia, what do you mean took advantage of your sick mom?

[Rachel Cruz]

Took advantage. Well, okay. She took over the family business even though it wasn't left to her. She convinced my mom to become the power of attorney and healthcare proxy and transferred all money to her own account.

[Olivia]

Oh, wow. Wow. What kind of.

[Rachel Cruz]

She also sold my mom's house and moved my mom into the family business.

[Olivia]

Into the business? Into the. Like, the office?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Olivia]

Okay. What. What kind of sickness does your mom have?

[Rachel Cruz]

She had cancer. She died three months ago.

[Olivia]

Oh, my gosh. I'm so sorry. Olivia, do you have any other siblings?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I'm the eldest. I am 40 years old. My sister is approximately 37 years old. She lived with both of my parents who passed from cancer and she has skipped town and has not buried my mom.

[George Camel]

Where is your mom?

[Rachel Cruz]

She. She. Sorry. My sister has her ashes.

[Olivia]

Okay. Oh, my gosh. Did you and your sister have a relationship before all of this?

[Rachel Cruz]

We did. It was. I thought it was a lovely relationship. And then things started getting weird when my father passed away five years ago. And then my mom got cancer. And I believe she felt entitled as the power of attorney to all money, all estate, all inheritance, and she's gone. She changed her number, she left town.

[Olivia]

So from a legal standpoint, did your mom have and your dad, you know, any documentation, legally, like in a will of what your inheritance is and then she went and changed it as power of attorney, or is there a will out there that you are. You are owed essentially your inheritance?

[Rachel Cruz]

There is a will that my mom wrote. I have never seen it. My sister attempted to change the will one month prior to death, but they never got it signed. So there is a handwritten will I'm not sure if it was done with a lawyer, but I've never seen the will.

[George Camel]

Okay, and you have no point of contacts for anyone that might have information on this?

[Rachel Cruz]

I've tried to reach out to the lawyers, and they said, catherine, or I'm sorry, Olivia, it was never signed, therefore it's not valid.

[Olivia]

The will? Yeah.

[George Camel]

And they have no version that is signed.

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct.

[Olivia]

Oh, man. Olivia.

[Rachel Cruz]

The question would be, do I keep my own peace and sanity and money and move forward with my life, or do I try to.

[Olivia]

Fight it? Essentially, yeah. I mean, the only. The only issue with all of that, because I don't mind the fighting, injustice. I mean, there's a. There. You know, we're not scared of that. But I don't know if you have any legal documents that will uphold in court to. To fight your side. Like, I don't know if there's any legal documentation to show your side, because from a legal perspective, you know, you could be lying as much as she is. Right. I'm not saying you are, Olivia, but, like, there's no. There's no proof otherwise.

[George Camel]

We need some kind of paper trail.

[Olivia]

There needs to be, like, some. Some level of documentation to. In order to. When you hire lawyers for them to fight this in the court system. And I just don't know if you. If you have that.

[George Camel]

Have you contacted a lawyer?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, I have. What did they say with a lawyer? He said that it may not be worth it because, number one, there may not be any money left over.

[Olivia]

That's true. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And. Right. So it may cost, what, five to $10,000 for a lawyer, and I may not get anything after all.

[Olivia]

Yeah. How much was the estate worth? Like, how much did your parents have? Do you. Do you have any idea?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, the house was sold for 344,000. There were many liens against the house, and I was. My sister has all of that money.

[Olivia]

Okay, so there were some liens.

[George Camel]

Was that all of your inheritance, or was there other money that was supposed to be given to you?

[Rachel Cruz]

That was probably all of my inheritance.

[George Camel]

Okay, so it wasn't retirement accounts, other assets, cash, things like that?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, there was the family business, but that's another topic. I believe just the money from the house would be part of my inheritance.

[Olivia]

Yeah, I mean, that would be 120 for you if you just 50. 50.

[George Camel]

And then we don't know all these liens against it.

[Olivia]

I was gonna say the liens against it, too, would be. Would be diminished, too. So I'm like.

[George Camel]

I don't know that there would be much here for you based on how complicated this whole thing is and was.

[Rachel Cruz]

I agree.

[Olivia]

Oh, Olivia. Well, what's so hard is I'm like, you've lost your mom. There hasn't. There's a feeling of no closure. Yeah. Your parents lost your sister in this. There's no closure. There's. I mean, the whole. The whole way it went down for you, Olivia, is just. It's just terrible. And I wish I had better guidance or direction for you to get some justice in this, but I.

[George Camel]

Do you have any money right now?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[George Camel]

How much?

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, myself.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yes. I work. I make 70,000 a year. I'm a surgical nurse. I'm married. I have a dog. We're doing. We're doing just fine. This situation is a strange one. It's very sad. And you're in fact, right. I lost mom, dad and a sister.

[Olivia]

Yep. Yep. And even the closure with your mom and her ash, you know what I mean? Like, that would probably be the step I would take of trying to get contact with your sister.

[George Camel]

You have no way to even know where she is, how to get in touch with her. She is off the planet at this point, correct?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. She had three cell phones. She changed the last number and has not responded via email. We did have a lovely funeral for my mom in church. She attended that funeral, but since then, she has taken off with the ashes and all of the money.

[George Camel]

I don't even understand that part. That just feels so strange.

[Olivia]

Well, I mean, Olivia, honestly, if I were in your position, and as much as you can find the closure in it, I would.

[George Camel]

I would.

[Olivia]

I. So sad to say you close a chapter in a book from your family. But she's cr. I mean, she sounds crazy the way you've presented it to us. Like, she sounds crazy dangerous if you did. That's right. I'm. Like, she stole like. Like it's immoral the things she has done. And so if I were you, I'd create. I mean, not that you have to even draw boundaries because the no relationship there, but I mean, I would. In my heart, just. There's a level. You got to just say, all right, that I'm done. I can't. I'm not going to keep fighting in. In this wheel because even that with the inheritance and all of that, it just muddles the piece of what's happened with your parents, you know, at that point. And so for you, Olivia, I think it's in the healthiest retro for you to. To move on.

[George Camel]

So sorry, I'm gonna send you a copy of Dr. J. John DeLoney's book Own youn Past, Change youe Future to Help youp Grieve all this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Mortgage rates have dropped. So if you're thinking about buying a.

[George Camel]

Home in the next year, contact your.

[Rachel Cruz]

Local Churchill mortgage team right now. If you wait, more people will be in the market, competing for the same homes and potentially driving up prices. Churchill will help you do the math to be sure your budget is correct, making your home a blessing and helping you build lasting wealth. Learn [e-mail] Churchill Mortgage.com this is a.

[George Camel]

Paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org Equal Housing Lender, 1749 Mallory Lane.

[Rachel Cruz]

Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027.

[George Camel]

This is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Rachel Cruz, who is also my co host on Smart Money Happy Hour. So if you're looking for some fun, some levity, some entertainment with a healthy dose of financial teaching, kind of, it's kind of do it all. Yeah. Spoonful of medicine, spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down. I think that's what Smart Money Happy Hour is, what it feels like. And people are loving it. Kids listen to it. They're like, I listen. My 10 year old loves it. And then people are like, I'm 75 and I love listening to you guys. So something for everyone with Smart Money there. We're here for it. So check it out this weekend. You can binge all the episodes that are out there every Thursday. All right, Claire joins us up next in Seattle, Washington. Claire, welcome to the show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. Thank you for having me.

[George Camel]

Absolutely. What's going on?

[Rachel Cruz]

So I'm turning 18 years old this year, and I really, really want to learn more about investing and where to start. I work as much as I can with school. I have some money in my checking account, some money in my savings account. But I've heard so many different options about, you know, investing in a Roth ira, doing real estate, all of this. But I'm just turning 18, and I really want to know what you guys recommend for young people looking to start investing.

[George Camel]

That is awesome. Way to go.

[Olivia]

Well done.

[George Camel]

So you're graduating soon?

[Olivia]

I'll graduate in a year.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm going into my senior year this year.

[George Camel]

Okay, and what are you doing for work?

[Rachel Cruz]

I work at a small cooperative in.

[Olivia]

My kind of small town.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's like an agriculture store almost.

[George Camel]

Okay. And what do you make there?

[Rachel Cruz]

A little over 1650 an hour.

[George Camel]

Cool. And how Many hours are you working?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's usually flux. Fluctuates week to week between 16 and 20 hours.

[George Camel]

Awesome. Way to go. And is your GPA solid?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. 4.0.

[George Camel]

There it is.

[Olivia]

You're amazing.

[George Camel]

She just proved. Because I was just thinking in my head, Rachel, you know, people who work 15 to 20 hours while in college have a higher GPA.

[Olivia]

That's right.

[George Camel]

Than those who don't.

[Olivia]

And there we go.

[George Camel]

And you proved it. Okay, so you are a rock star, number one. Do you have any debt?

[Rachel Cruz]

I do not, no.

[George Camel]

And how much do you have in checking and savings?

[Rachel Cruz]

Savings. I haven't really been sure what to do with it. So I have maybe around $700 in my checking account. I have over three grand.

[George Camel]

Way to go. Gosh, you're doing so well. Okay. So I would set aside a little bit of that for kind of a starter emergency fund for you. Obviously, you don't have a ton of expenses. Now. Are you living on campus or on your own?

[Olivia]

I still live at home.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm enrolled in a local community college, so I live at home and it covers my tuition. So I am still at home not paying anything for that.

[George Camel]

That is awesome.

[Olivia]

Great job.

[George Camel]

Okay, so let's talk about investing. I think the Roth IRA is your best bet right now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Invest into that in a good growth stock mutual fund. You can diversify it across the four types that we talk about. Uh, we have a great investing guide on our website. I'll make sure Austin gets you a link over to that. That can help kind of unpack this at a deeper level than we can do on radio. But I think trying to. I don't know that you would max it out with the income that you have. But getting to that Roth IRA and consistently putting money away is going to be your best bet at 18.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

I don't think you need to worry about all the other stuff and all the noise you're hearing. You can stick to a Roth IRA once you start your career.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

You'll probably have an option for a Roth 401K and that's another great place. And start doing 15% at that point.

[Olivia]

Yeah. Once you graduate, Claire. I mean, having some cash on hand between graduation and entering the real world and career, it's always good just to have some because you may be moving, who knows what kind of. You know, if you take a job.

[George Camel]

Could be deposits you might need to get. Yeah, a car upgrade.

[Olivia]

That's right.

[George Camel]

So maintenance.

[Olivia]

Just kind of having some cash for that transition. Just thinking through that. And then Once you kind of get settled, which I have a feeling you'll probably settle pretty quickly because I think you know what you want in life. You're very, you're very proactive. So once you, yeah. Have that first job and you're settled in to where you are and got your first apartment, whatever it is, and you're renting, that's when. Yeah. The 401k would, I would look into something like that. But for now I'm with George. I think having cash on hand and looking at a Roth IRA I think is going to be your best bet.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And if you want setting that Roth IRA up, you can get connected with one of our smartvestor pros, which they don't work for Ramsey, but they are vetted investing professionals that we trust. And if you go to Ramsey Solutions.com click on Trusted Pros, you can connect with one in the Seattle area and they'll get you started there. Way to go. Awesome. Let's go on to Brandon in Dallas. Brandon, welcome to the show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hello. Can you guys hear me?

[George Camel]

You sound great.

[Olivia]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Awesome. Hey, I have a question. My wife and I have gotten ourselves in a, in a really bad spot. So we have about $250,000 in consumer debt. That's credit cards and personal loans. We're just not sure what to do. We don't have enough income to pay all of our minimum payments. And so we're not sure if we should file bankruptcy or just stop paying until we can afford to settle or we're just not sure where to go from here.

[Olivia]

What caused y'all to go $250,000 in credit cards and personal loans?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, it's everything you guys say not to do it. We decided, I decided I should say to flip a house and then buy two more houses with a lot of leverage. Right. When interest rates went up and we ended up taking a really big bath on these three properties, we lost money on all three of them.

[Olivia]

I'm so sorry.

[Rachel Cruz]

On. Yeah, it's, it's definitely been tough. And, and on top of that, during that time I was so focused on that that I'm in real estate and my production pretty much went to zero during that time because my mind was just so wrapped up in that. So that that's where we're at and we're just really not sure where to go from here.

[Olivia]

How old are you guys?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm 28. My wife is 27. We have a two year old daughter and we have another that's going to be arriving in October.

[Olivia]

Oh, my gosh. You know, it's wild. Brandon, if you're familiar with our, My family's story, that little baby that's going to be born, that was me and my sister was two years old when my parents filed for bankruptcy. And through real estate issues, I mean, dad did exactly what you did, but on a massive scale. And they called all of his notes and he, if he was sitting here today, I think his empathy would be at the highest level because he was literally you 35 years ago, which is pretty wild. So I, I have such like a heart for those kids and your kids and your wife and all of it, because I know you guys are under a lot of stress and I know there's probably a lot of shame and embarrassment and you feel a lot of the weights. And so I hear, I hear all of that. So my question would be, how much, how much did you make when you were in real estate and in your head was not all over the place with these other rentals and you were so focused on it, what were you bringing in?

[Rachel Cruz]

So, I mean, I would average probably somewhere between nine and $10,000 a month. My wife also works, she brings in about five to six thousand dollars a month.

[George Camel]

Okay, and what is the case today? What's kind of the average month for you guys?

[Rachel Cruz]

So, so right now she is still bringing that five to 6,000amonth. I've just rededicated myself to real estate as of last week. So right now it's, it's nothing. You know, ideally in the next, if I'm realistic, maybe 90 to 120 days, we're going to start seeing some fruit from all the work I'm doing today.

[Olivia]

Okay. Yeah, Brandon, I don't think you're not, you're not bankrupt, but I would say catching up on those minimum payments is your number one goal. And Brandon, I, I in your future here for the next probably two to three years, you're going to be doing more than just real estate. I mean, you're going to be doing side hustles at night. You're going to be exhausted. You're going to be exhausted because the amount of effort that you guys are going to put into this, because I believe you can to get out of this hole, it's going to take a lot and you're going to be really uncomfortable and you're going to, it's going to feel like a sacrifice because that's what's, that's what it's going to take to get out of this. And you guys have To. I was going to say promise us, I mean more. Promise yourselves that you align in the sand is drawn. And for your kids sake, you will never ever go back to this again. That debt is off the table 100%. Because if you keep dabbling it in, Brandon, I'm telling you, you're gonna go right, you're gonna look up again. You're gonna be right back in this position. So you guys need a mindset. Shift you and your wife and draw a black and white line and say never again. We're not doing this. Yeah, and for the next three years, our. Our lives are gonna look a whole lot different. And it's gonna be really hard with those babies at home. But Brandon, you're gonna be able to do this. You guys are gonna be able to get out of this. But it's gonna take a lot of work and a lot of sacrificing your life, but every penny possible to go towards this debt.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Brandon, you said it was 250 total.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, but I do have kind of a wrench to throw in it. So I guess two questions. Number one is total debt payments. We have around 6,000 on top of living expenses of around 9,000. So number one is we're just not sure, like how do we actually cash flow this thing? Like what do we let go?

[George Camel]

Okay, here's what I'm gonna do, Brandon. I'm gonna gift you guys Financial Peace University and everydollar premium to get on a plan. But looking at the math on this, it's just a math equation. Can we throw seven grand a month and be done in 36 months? It comes down to something that simple. Hang on the line. We'll get you those resources.

[Rachel Cruz]

Are you working the baby steps?

[George Camel]

One of the smartest and most impactful.

[Rachel Cruz]

Changes you can make is to ditch.

[George Camel]

Your cash value life insurance plan, if.

[Rachel Cruz]

You have one, and replace it with.

[George Camel]

A term life policy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you.

[George Camel]

For the life insurance and then paying you a crappy rate of return on your overpayment. Stop wasting your money and really focus on getting out of debt and growing your savings.

[Rachel Cruz]

For over 25 years, I've trusted and used Zander Insurance to find the best.

[George Camel]

Rates on term life insurance from the top rated companies. They keep the whole thing simple. You can apply online or over the phone and they even have low cost plans that don't require an exam. Go to zander.com or call 800-335-64282. Even if you don't have a cash value policy, if you're one of the 70% of people who have no life insurance or not enough, it's even more important to get this done. 800-356-4282 or xander.com this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Rachel Cruz. Hey, if you're a fan of the show, which I assume you are, if you're taking the time to listen to us right now, we would love for you to subscribe to the show to follow wherever you're listening, leave a review, be kind and share it with a friend who might enjoy this show. If they're looking for some hope in their life and their money, we so appreciate that. That is how we spread the word and create more impact. All right, let's take some more calls here. 888-255-2225 is the number. Emma is in San Bernardino. Emma, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi, guys. Thanks for having me on.

[George Camel]

Sure. What's your question?

[Rachel Cruz]

So my husband is a real estate agent and he's been with a company for about three years now. But his boss is very inappropriate. He's had about three lawsuits against him for sexual harassment. He only hires employees who are under the age of 25. And blonde and skinny is his boss.

[George Camel]

Leonardo DiCaprio. This is wild.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And he makes really inappropriate comments about women. And he recently had an affair with an employee and the employee got mad at him for whatever reason and sent out a huge email to tons of different lenders and other agents and just basically saying, don't hire these people, don't work with them. And I don't really want my husband to be with this company anymore because of his boss.

[Olivia]

And how does your husband feel? What's your husband say about all of this?

[Rachel Cruz]

He kind of, I mean, we haven't really talked too much. I think right now because my husband's making good money, I don't know if he will really be open to that. But I'm, I'm worried he's something major is going to happen soon.

[George Camel]

Oh, my gosh. It feels like you want to stay in the band on the Titanic because of the money, but we can see it sinking.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, that's the perfect way to put it.

[George Camel]

So I think he needs to see the writing on the wall going, this guy's got multiple lawsuits against him. People are trying to actively take him down. The money may be good now, but number one, at what cost of your soul? And sticking around with a guy of this level of integrity. And then number two going, this money may not be around a year from now as word gets around in the real estate world.

[Olivia]

Yeah. Is he on, like a certain. Is he on a certain commission system? Because if it's like with a company or a brokerage, can he.

[George Camel]

Real estate agents?

[Olivia]

Yeah. Can he just change brokerages?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. I mean, he's had other agencies reach out to him. Cause he is a really good real estate agent. Sells a lot.

[Olivia]

And that's usually most of the time. That's where you're going to find that you make the money as a real estate agent is you, not necessarily the company. Now, granted, there are some more companies that will put marketing dollars behind you and all of that, but. But he's the secret sauce, your husband. So regardless of where he got, where he goes, he'll be able to perform and, yeah, continue to make great money. So my big thing, Emma, is I would talk. I mean, I would be talking to him about it. And just make your feelings clear.

[George Camel]

I'm not comfortable with you working around.

[Olivia]

This guy because of his integrity. Like, the guy is a creep. And it's like, if he's a creep with other people, like, I'm like, oh, I don't know, you just don't want to be around that. And is he doing weird business? Like, usually when you have a lack of integrity in one area of your life, sometimes it spills into other areas. So I would even. I would just be worried from.

[George Camel]

This guy's not even trying to hide it.

[Olivia]

From, like, a cultural standpoint, it's really toxic. But then also, who knows what he's doing behind the scenes with.

[George Camel]

Yeah, this is just the tip of the iceberg to keep the Leo and Titanic references going.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, they've had their place vandalized because he slept with a married woman who was an employee and her husband found out. So, like, three guys he hired and came and just broke windows. So.

[Olivia]

Yeah, so. So we. Yeah. So the boss is one thing. Right. But it's you and your husband that need to make this decision. And so that's what I want to focus on. And so the fact that you haven't brought it up to him yet or that it hasn't been a conversation. Yeah, I mean, I. That. That's more of a like a. Okay, here's what's in my control is, hey, I can actually. Whatever the boss decides to do with his life, that's his issue. But my issue here is that my husband is part of a company that is obviously just A complete. They're not jumping on the lifeboat at all anytime soon is what it sounds.

[George Camel]

Like for keeping the references going.

[Olivia]

You're welcome. So, Emma, I would put your life vest on.

[George Camel]

Put the life vest on and let's find him another job. He's a fantastic real estate agent. And that is. Is the common denominator here, not this magical agency that's about to go under.

[Olivia]

And talk to your husband about it and the fact that you haven't yet, I'm like, I mean, I don't know. That's.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's interesting. If it bothered me enough to call a national radio show, it's going to bother me enough to have a conversation with my spouse.

[Olivia]

Yeah. So have that conversation, Emma, for sure.

[George Camel]

All right, let's move on to Minneapolis, Minnesota. Jeremy joins us there. Jeremy, welcome to the show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, George and Rachel, how are you doing?

[George Camel]

Great. You sound defeated, Jeremy. Have you just been waiting on the line too long?

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my gosh. Let's see. When did I start? Well, I'm central time, so I started around 2. So I've been in here about an hour and a half, but not that.

[Olivia]

So sorry. Jeremy, we really appreciate the marathon. You really stuck it out there. Thanks.

[Rachel Cruz]

My admin will be sending you a bill, so it's okay. So I have more of a money etiquette question. So my wife and I, when we go out to eat, we usually pay cash. And so let's say, like, this was a couple nights ago, we were at Olive Garden, and Our bill is 45, 30. I leave three 20s on the table. Server comes over, and to me, I just kind of assume, like, you know what, it's kind of high. They'll probably just assume to bring change. Well, they go to just take it, and they start like, okay, have a good night. They take it. And I'm like, why? I'm like, you're bringing change. Right. And then she got very kind of visually upset at us. And this has happened more than you would think. When we go out to eat, like, just constantly. Servers kind of just assume whatever money's on the table. I guess they just keep.

[Olivia]

So all you gotta do, Jeremy. Yeah. All you gotta do is say, hey, here's 60 bucks. Can I have some change, please? Like, do you just be proactive so that they're not. That they're not wondering? Right.

[George Camel]

Or just tell them exactly how much change you want back.

[Olivia]

Oh, you could do that too. Like, hey, we bring me a five.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, that's fair. So one time we were at a different place and so our bill was like, let's just say it's 35. And we had two. Two twenties and. Or maybe three twenties. So we can't give them the 40 and just say keep because it's five bucks. Kind of lame. And so then we gave him 60, and we're like, okay, can you break up this 20 for us so we can leave a tip for you? He's like, okay. So then he came back with change. So let's just say it was 35. We gave him 60. I would expect to get 25 back. But then they came back with, like a 10 and two ones and.

[George Camel]

Sounds like they're just not good at math. Well, they're just factoring.

[Olivia]

They're manipulating the. The cash system to bring you back a certain bill so that you leave the $10 bill. You can't.

[George Camel]

You know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Exactly.

[Olivia]

Yeah. I mean, it's e. Yeah. Either in the situation, you just ask specifically what you need. And I know you said, yeah, change. But say, like, can I have two fives? Like, you gotta just be really. You could just be really specific. Or just leave them an extra $5.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, well, that's what we did with the other case. We're like, you know what? We don't care about the.

[George Camel]

This is a really silly solution, but you could just get smaller bills and just have those on you when you're out to eat. Not just have 20s.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's fair.

[Olivia]

Jimmy has a lot of 20s.

[George Camel]

That's an option. I do that for my haircut. So this is a great example. I pay cash for my hair. Haircuts to get. To get a discount. I just went today, and I go to the bank next door, and I'll break the 20. I'll get a 10, 5, and 5 ones so that I can give him exact. The exact amount with tip included.

[Rachel Cruz]

But see, the hard thing, you don't.

[George Camel]

Know how much you're gonna. You're gonna pay for the meal, of course. But the idea here is you've got. You've got a five, you've got some ones, you got some options.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. When we started doing this, I was, like, carrying hundreds with us. And then I was like, okay, this.

[George Camel]

Is Jeremy's balling out at Olive Garden. I love it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, but. But so, like, what the problem is, I just. I feel very. Not. I don't want to say bad.

[Olivia]

Don't be shamed. Yeah, don't be shamed.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'll just say we feel very shamed. That's a good way to put it.

[George Camel]

Because you're asking for change back. They look at it like, oh, he's so cheap. He doesn't want to leave us. All right.

[Rachel Cruz]

And it's like, I hate. I absolutely hate being manipulated. So it's more of that.

[Olivia]

Yeah. I would be proactive.

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Olivia]

And say exactly what you need back.

[George Camel]

Communicate upfront.

[Olivia]

Yep. And then they walk up to the table issue. Jeremy, as long as you're tipping well, you know, 15, 20%, 25%, if it's great, there's nothing to be shamed about. And that's there, I mean, at that point.

[George Camel]

And servers love cash tips, so they should be grateful that they're not having to wait to get that, you know, at the end of the month in a check. So you're doing the right thing, man.

[Olivia]

Don't do it right, Jeremy.

[George Camel]

You're doing release the shame.

[Olivia]

Yes.

[George Camel]

This is the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, I'm excited to talk about a new sponsor, Burna. You all probably know I'm a gun guy, but I'm big on safety, so I'm also a burner guy. Burna is the ungun, a less lethal.

[George Camel]

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[Rachel Cruz]

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[George Camel]

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[Rachel Cruz]

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[George Camel]

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[Rachel Cruz]

Plus, our listeners can get the Ramsey burner bundle for 10% off, which includes a burner pistol, CO2 cartridges and ammo. And other burner products like safety alarms, defense sprays, and body armor are also 10% off. For Ramsey fans, see why Burna has more than 15,000 five star reviews. Just go to byrna.comdave to learn more. That's B Y R N A.

[George Camel]

We're back with more of the Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell joined today by Rachel Cruz and it's your show, America. So give us a call, 888-255-2225. Melissa joins us up next in St. Charles, Missouri. Melissa, welcome to the show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it.

[George Camel]

Absolutely. How can Rachel and I help?

[Rachel Cruz]

We're hoping you can help. My husband and I and our son make a very tough decision. Decision that needs to be made very quickly. Yeah, stakes are high. Yeah, it's high. My husband and I bought a car for our son in 2019. It was a 2018 Kia Soul for about 14,000, plus taxes and registration. During that time we had put a new engine in there. So we've invested probably another 6,000 in that car in the last couple years. Last year he was in a car accident. It was deemed his fault. So we put a claim through our insurance. They fixed it, but then this March when it renewed, they dropped him. So we had to go through a broker to get a new insurance and it was at about twice the premium of what he was paying. But we had to do it. So you have to have insurance. So now he's got this new insurance since March and then the unthinkable happens. Monday night, his car is stolen.

[George Camel]

Oh my goodness.

[Rachel Cruz]

Now we're in a very worse condition because the argument between my husband and I is do we put a claim through? Because we know what's going to happen when that renewal happens next year. They're going to drop us and then the insurance is going to go even. His premium is going to go even higher. And we talked to our broker and he pretty much confirmed it. Yeah, it's going to go up. He doesn't know how much. Could be as high as 800amonth. He doesn't know for sure. So the tough decision we're trying to decide is do we put the claim through and risk our son being strapped with a high premium for years until it drops off? He said it could take up to five years for the drop off. Or do we bite the bullet, kiss that money goodbye on that car and pull money out of our savings and help our son get another used car?

[Olivia]

How much would you have been able to get for it? Like, is it at 20?

[Rachel Cruz]

We believe around 12,000.

[Olivia]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

And he's got $2,000 deductible, so we'd be walking away with maybe 10 to put towards another car. What are the unknown factors, what the premium's going to end up being down.

[Olivia]

The line for sure. What are you paying now for the insurance?

[Rachel Cruz]

He's paying almost 300 monthly, 21. So he's at that high risk. So he's already paying high to begin with.

[George Camel]

Well, I'm just going to do the math and go, okay, let's say, you know, have you talked to an outside, you know, third party insurance agent to get an estimate on what this could be?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, this is the same broker that got us his insurance just this March. We called him and he's saying he.

[George Camel]

Could add 800amonth potentially or just up to 800.

[Rachel Cruz]

Could be. It could be because he now he's got to go out and find someone else that's going to insure him with a second claim.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

And he said it could be. It could be as high as 800amonth. He doesn't know.

[George Camel]

Well, if it's 800amonth, absolutely. It's not worth it because that's 10,000 a year.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

That you're now paying to file that claim to get 10 one time.

[Olivia]

But that's worst case scenario.

[George Camel]

That's worst case.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[George Camel]

So that's where I'm going. Is there a way to figure it out without running the claim? I don't know that there is. Without actually running it through your insurance.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. He said he could start doing some research for us, but I mean he would have no way to know exactly what that amount is. He's just given us the worst case. So I don't know. My husband feels like we invested so much money in it. That's why you pay premiums. We need to put the claims through. We need to get recoup some of our loss. I said, yeah, but as a parent, do I want to strap the son, our son with this huge pre. Possible.

[Olivia]

How did the car get stolen, Melissa? Where. Where was it stolen?

[Rachel Cruz]

In a parking lot. In a parking lot. It got stolen.

[George Camel]

They just like hotwired it and took off. Or was the key in there?

[Rachel Cruz]

The key wasn't in there. I guess they somehow got in there.

[Olivia]

And got it going and you can't find it? I mean, have you reported police report and all that?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, we did the police report and unfortunately the police is not responding. We've been calling for days to get an update because we've never had this happen before. So we checked online, they said, oh, wait about five days. Sometimes it shows up.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

We can't get the police to call us back to get any update, so we're going to assume it's gone. It's a chop shop. It's gone. And we got to make decisions because he's got a job. It's already become inconvenient trying to get him to and from work.

[Olivia]

Sure.

[Rachel Cruz]

So that's why I say it needs to be quickly.

[George Camel]

How old is he?

[Rachel Cruz]

He's 21.

[George Camel]

And does he have any money saved?

[Rachel Cruz]

Not much. A little under 3,000 saved. He doesn't have a job. It's Like a career job right now. He's still working at it. He's just not there yet.

[George Camel]

And do you guys have money to basically gift him a car right now?

[Rachel Cruz]

We do, but my husband's a little irritated because we've already done that once.

[Olivia]

Yeah. Then there's a part two. Melissa, he's 21, you know, like, yeah, it's tough. He's got it.

[George Camel]

He's kind of got to get some skin in the game here.

[Olivia]

Yeah, I would want.

[Rachel Cruz]

He was paying us back. He paid us back for the motor. He was paying us back half of what the car cost. So he was putting. Get. You know, he was contributing.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

But it's just horrible timing. He wasn't done paying his half of the car. And it's just. We're just all just not sure what to do here. And I thought, well, let's call the guys that know about money what makes sense.

[George Camel]

Yeah, it's hard to do when the numbers are so variable, because usually we just look at the math and go, is this going to roi? It doesn't make sense to do from a mathematical standpoint, but there's too many unknowns here to say for sure. Do this now. If I'm in your shoes, I might just save up and get him a cheap used car instead of.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's exactly what the broker said. He said. I asked him, so what would you do if it was your son? He said, I would just get a cheap car.

[George Camel]

And we're not going to get him a $14,000 car. We're going to get him a $4,000 car.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know, and I thought that, too. And I started looking, and then I realized, I remember Dave Ramsey said about, oh, it's Covid, and these car prices are through the roof, and, oh, my gosh, they are. I couldn't find anything under 10 that didn't look like.

[George Camel]

Where are you looking?

[Rachel Cruz]

Like, over 100,000 miles.

[George Camel]

Well, it's a. I don't care if it has 160,000 miles. Find them an old Toyota or Honda. I don't care if it's a 1999. Those things will go forever.

[Olivia]

And, Melissa, he. And he needs to be looking, too. Like, I'm hearing you as the mom, which I'm. I get. But also, he's 21. He's 21. Like, he needs to. This is his. This is his problem. You know what I mean? Like, you guys obviously are there supporting.

[George Camel]

Him, but every step of the process.

[Olivia]

I want him to be bringing you ideas and.

[George Camel]

And maybe he pays half of the car and you go, hey, we're gonna put in two grand. You're gonna put in two grand, we're gonna find you a four thousand dollar car, we're gonna negotiate it off Facebook Marketplace. You're gonna take it to get it inspected, and I think that will help him see this car differently.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Okay. Yeah, because I was just looking at dealerships. I mean, no, I would look at.

[George Camel]

Your options are gonna be Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist and Auto Trader and sort by lowest price in your area. Maybe even drive a few miles to go find this car. That's. That's a good.

[Olivia]

And at that price point too, Melissa, it's amazing what just cash will do. Go get $5,000 cash, bring it to the house and say, hey, here's what I got. And you may even get a good deal. Right? I mean, I know, I know used car prices are insane right now, but still, there's still some, some ways to. Yes, get a deal, negotiate all of that, but it would be through more of it. It would be an individual, not a dealer. I would not go through a dealership.

[George Camel]

The dealers aren't messing with cars that cheap right now.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yeah. Okay. So my takeaway is your suggestion, if you're in our shoes, not do the claim, get a cheap car and just, just keep that, you know, for a few years and then go from there.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And I'm gonna still stay on that police report. I'm gonna. I mean, cars turn up, it's crazy. And it may take a few weeks, but if it's not in the chop shop yet, it may just be sitting somewhere in someone's driveway.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Without the plates on it, who knows what they. It's amazing how these things turn up. So still keep track of that, but at the same time, go, how much are we willing to put in? Have him, you know, maybe come in with half of that money and have him start looking and have him make the decision.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. All right. You guys are wonderful. Thank you.

[George Camel]

Thank you so much. That's a tough situation. That's insult to injury.

[Olivia]

And I'm like, you know, and I guess obviously the insurance agent knows, but I'm like, if it's, if it's, if your car is stolen, I mean, I guess obviously your insurance goes up. Like, that's one of those things where I'm like, is it your fault? You know what I mean? Because the different claims depending on the situation are also different. I don't know.

[George Camel]

I'm not in that world. But it is frightening to think about that someone could just get in your car and take off.

[Olivia]

I know.

[George Camel]

Wild times.

[Olivia]

Yep.

[George Camel]

Wow. Well, that puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Our thanks to Austin, Kelly, Ben, James, Andrew, and of course my co host, Rachel Cruz. And who could forget about you, America? We appreciate you listening. Listening in. We'll be back with you before you know it.

[Rachel Cruz]

What does the future hold for business?

[George Camel]

Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession.

[Rachel Cruz]

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[George Camel]

The visibility and control you need to make quick decisions.

[Rachel Cruz]

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[George Camel]

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[Rachel Cruz]

At netsuite.com Ramsey it's free at netsuite.com Ramsey.

[George Camel]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where America hangs out to have a conversation conversation about your life and your money. I'm George Campbell, Ramsey personality, joined today by Rachel Cruze, best selling author and host of the Rachel Cruze Show. And we are here for you this hour answering your money questions, your life questions. Triple 882-55-5225 is the number to call. If you call and you're nice, Kelly will pat you through and we can try to help you take the right next step for your money.

[Olivia]

Is she the judge?

[George Camel]

She's the judge. She's the holder. She holds the key.

[Olivia]

Kelly's the filter.

[George Camel]

She's the dj.

[Olivia]

Do I like you? Do I not?

[George Camel]

Kelly's confused.

[Olivia]

No. Kelly, what do you think?

[George Camel]

Yay or nay? Well, Rusty is kicking us off. He's in Mansfield, Ohio. Rusty, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi, thanks for having me. Thanks for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Cruz]

And so I'm getting ready to graduate college here in May and I'll be a pharmacist once I pass my boards. I'm 36. My wife's 32. I have a whole bunch of student loan debt. About $342,000 in student loan debt.

[Olivia]

Whoa.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. I have about 9,000 in credit cards. We have about 34,000 tied up in cars. And then I have a personal loan from a family member which kind of includes a house. They put down their house as collateral with a balloon loan. So we've just been paying the interest to kind of live here.

[George Camel]

Oh, jeez.

[Olivia]

How much. How much is that?

[Rachel Cruz]

The house is only 51,000, but in total, with other money I owe her, it's about 97, $98,000.

[George Camel]

So what's the total debt that you owe?

[Rachel Cruz]

482,000.

[George Camel]

Rusty, how are you feeling? Are you okay?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I'm all right.

[George Camel]

I'm more worried than you are.

[Rachel Cruz]

Listening to your show about a year ago and, you know, I felt like I needed to pursue the pretty big shovel because I was almost done with school. So I have a job lined up. I'll start.

[Olivia]

How much are you gonna be making?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'll be making 108,000, and that's. I have a job that'll be seven days on and seven days off, so I plan on picking up another job.

[Olivia]

Good, good.

[George Camel]

Is that your household income, or is there more money?

[Rachel Cruz]

My wife brings home about 450 a week.

[George Camel]

So what is she doing?

[Olivia]

But what does that. What does that pan out to? Do you think she'll make this year?

[Rachel Cruz]

She just started this job a few months ago, so I'm gonna say maybe around 30 to 35, somewhere in that range.

[Olivia]

What is she doing?

[Rachel Cruz]

She's a customer service rep for a company.

[George Camel]

Is that full time?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. Do you guys have kids?

[Rachel Cruz]

We do not. That's something else I kind of wanted to throw in there. So she. We have issues, so we'll probably have to do like, an IVF if we want to have kids, So I wasn't sure if you know where that would fit in either, because she's getting kind of older and it's coming towards that time or not at all, so.

[Olivia]

Totally.

[George Camel]

Wow. So how can we help today?

[Rachel Cruz]

I just kind of need a plan of, I guess, where to start. So the house doesn't have to be refinanced for another three to four years before they call for that balloon loan. So I wasn't sure if I should pay on other stuff for three years or so.

[George Camel]

Can you get out of this house situation?

[Olivia]

Yeah. Is it the house that you're living in that has the mortgage and the loan and everything? Or is it the family members?

[Rachel Cruz]

So my mother put her house as collateral for this house, because this house is technically worth a little bit more. So it's her house that is on the line, I guess.

[Olivia]

And how much do you have left? How much is left on the house?

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, we've just been paying the interest.

[George Camel]

So the whole amount, Rusty, you're gonna have to get.

[Olivia]

How much will it sell for? I honestly don't know, because here's the deal, Rusty. Y'all. Y'all say again.

[Rachel Cruz]

We. We got it in 2017, so it's been a little while. I'm sure it's probably in this market went up a little bit, but.

[Olivia]

Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, probably has. So here's the thing, Rusty. You're in kind of a extreme situation with everything going on and the amount of debt, which means in order to make movement, you're going to have to make some extreme moves. And we don't always recommend selling a home and that kind of thing to get out of debt. Cause for some people, it's like, hey, you got $12,000 of credit card debt, and we're like, awesome. Cut everything and pay it off as fast as possible. But you. I mean, it's a substantial amount, almost half a million dollars. And so if you want to start making some big moves, that's where I'm going to start looking. First and foremost. It's like, where are the places that we can make some drastic moves? And I know you guys want a family in the future, and that's amazing. And we can definitely talk about that later on in this call. But, like, you don't have kids right now. Nothing's t down to this house. Like, I would start eliminating stuff. And your cars. You got $34,000 of car debt. How is that between both cars? Or is that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yeah, that's between both.

[Olivia]

Between both cars.

[George Camel]

What are the cars worth?

[Rachel Cruz]

So we owe about a little over 10,000 on one. It's probably worth about 12 or 13. And then we owe about 23, seven on the other one, and it's about 20. Worth 25 or 26.

[George Camel]

Okay. Well, man, if I'm in your shoes, I'm feeling. Feeling a sense of urgency, and I'm going, we are selling these cars tomorrow, and we're going to drive beater cars. We are selling this house next month, and we are going to live somewhere.

[Olivia]

That we can afford one bedroom and tiny apartment. I mean, like. I mean, I'm talking. Yes. Making these.

[George Camel]

This is an emergency situation.

[Olivia]

And the $9,000 credit card debt, all of it. So, like, Rusty. Yes. What George is saying, and I totally agree with, like there needs to be this sense of, okay, in order to make a dent in half a million dollars of debt, we gotta just make some moves. And so that's right, selling the car, selling the house, and then mapping out a game plan. So you're gonna make 108k a year, but then that's every other week. So finding a job ASAP of what you can do every other week, your wife's making 35,000 in this market. Honestly, I think she can make more. I would be looking for a different job. Like, I would be upping, I would be making huge lifestyle changes. Because when you do that, what's going to end up happening is you're going to, you're going to have all this other margin to throw at the debt. You're not going to, you guys are going to be living on nothing. Everything's going to be going towards that. Because if you're not making these types of decisions, you're going to be in this for a really long time. And your pattern so far, Rusty, not to shame you, but your pattern so far of the decisions you guys have made with the credit card debt, the car loans, your mom taking out, you know, collateral in her house with a balloon mortgage, like, your whole mindset has to shift. Like, you have to have this realization. What we've done has not worked. So we're actually gonna have to do the opposite of everything I thought I was gonna do with money. And so you and your wife together, like making this. Because what I would do too is, and sorry, George, you can jump in, but like is having your why. What's your why? And for you guys to start a family and yes, and I, and we've had close, dear friends go through this process, multiple friends go through the IVF process. And it's long, it's exhausting, it's strenuous. I mean there's all that emotion and then obviously the prayer of being able to have a family on the other side of that. I want that to be your why. Like, like sacrificing so majorly to say over here is what we want our lives to be in order to do that so well, as stress free as possible with as much money in the bank. These are the decisions we have to make.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And make sure you're cash flowing. That IVF treatment, don't go into debt for it. Which means we got to clean this thing up and use that why? Listen, your life at this rate is going to suck for 10 to 20 years. I don't want that for you. I want it to suck for two years because you got Gazelle Intense. You sacrificed, you did everything you could for your family, for that future kid. That's what I want for you. Rusty. I'm gift you one year of Ramsey. Plus I want you and your wife to go through all the Financial Peace University videos, get a game plan, get on the every dollar budget and start attacking this thing with a vengeance because your life depends on it. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

This show is sponsored by Better Help.

[George Camel]

Hey, it's that time of year. It's starting to get a little bit colder. It's getting a little bit dark earlier.

[Rachel Cruz]

And sometimes if you're like me, you just want to stay inside and get cozy.

[George Camel]

And for me, my perfect cozy night.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is me and all of my family piled under blankets, watching a movie, sitting.

[George Camel]

By the fire, maybe even reading a book. Listen, whatever your perfect night in looks like, sometimes therapy can feel a bit like that.

[Rachel Cruz]

A time when you can settle in.

[George Camel]

Finally, exhale, replenish your energy and begin.

[Rachel Cruz]

To take care of yourself.

[George Camel]

Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort during the chaos and rush of the holiday season or any.

[Rachel Cruz]

Other time of year.

[George Camel]

Taking the time to pause and be mindful is one of the reasons I recommend Better Help. Betterhelp is a hundred percent online therapy with licensed therapist. You can talk with your therapist just about anytime and just about anywhere so.

[Rachel Cruz]

It'S convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey.

[George Camel]

To get matched with a therapist and you can switch therapists for no extra cost.

[Rachel Cruz]

Find comfort this December with BetterHelp Help.

[George Camel]

Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10 off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney I don't know about you.

[Olivia]

But I love the new year. It's a fresh start and I get to reflect on the good things I want to keep doing and the not so good things I want to change. And I know a lot of you are psyching yourself up thinking, okay, this year I've got to get my finances in order and big goals like that are really exciting, but they can also be overwhelming. That's why it's so important to have a plan. So before you do anything else, start with a budget. Start with every dollar. I love every dollar because it's so easy to plan out your spending and keep track of it every month. Plus, most people Free up on average $400 in their first budget to go towards their goals. Guys, this can be an amazing year. And if you choose just one good habit to start, choose budgeting. Download the EveryDollar budgeting app for free today.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. Our Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. Student loan debt is a swamp thousands of people find it hard to escape from. So don't be another statistic in the student loan swamp. For distressed private student loans, there's why Refi. We trust Y Refi because they help you with a low fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else. To help you stick to your budget and get out of debt. Learn [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter Y R, E F. Y.com Ramsey might not be available in all states.

[Olivia]

Today's question comes from Nathan in Kentucky. I am 14 years old and I was just wondering what is a good way to try and become to try and become at least a hundred dollar. Oh, gosh, a hundred million.

[George Camel]

Wait, 100 million.

[Olivia]

100 Millionaire. By the time I didn't know that was a term 30, I wasn't sure either. I was just wondering because I discovered you guys on Tick Tock. Look at us, George. And I thought to myself that y'all had good information and I just wanted to know if it's possible. Thank you for your time. Wow.

[George Camel]

I'm doing the math for our friend Nathan here, Rachel. It's not looking good.

[Olivia]

A hundred.

[George Camel]

Do you want to know what it takes, Rachel?

[Olivia]

I would actually. Would love to know.

[George Camel]

Okay. It takes, get this. You would have to invest from the age of 14 to the age of 30, and we're going to assume a 10% rate of return. Okay.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

From 14 to 30, you'd have to invest every single month. $220,000. So there's the true answer, Nathan. But because now your hope has been stolen from us, let me give you some.

[Olivia]

Do a millionaire do 1 million.

[George Camel]

$1 million to get to a million. Okay, well, that's.

[Olivia]

So that would be a. That would be. What'd you say to 2,000amonth?

[George Camel]

At that point, 220 grand was for 100 million.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So if we take it down to 20 grand, that's 10 million. That's pretty good. I'm gonna go 5 grand a month would get you to 2.

[Olivia]

So 2 million. Just about 20,000.

[George Camel]

Yeah, just about 20. 200 bucks a month.

[Olivia]

All right.

[George Camel]

From 14 to 30.

[Olivia]

Okay. All right.

[George Camel]

That's still a lot of money for a 14 year old to be socking away.

[Olivia]

At least got a bullseye we can look for. Okay. So, Nathan, I would encourage you to get beyond this like label of quote unquote millionaire, because I think a lot of people believe if I just had this amount of money, whether it's 1.

[George Camel]

Million or 100 million.

[Olivia]

Yeah. Everything's gonna just be fine and I'm gonna be okay. And the truth is, financially, numbers wise, there's a good chance. Yeah. That you, you know, that's really going to help you. But your money habits are going to be a big part of this. And who you are as a person, Nathan, is going to have a big part in this because there are people, I would say, that have millions and millions and are still very discontent people and they're still running this race, acquiring, trying to find some level of joy and peace in life. And they're not finding it through money because money does not bring that. It can bring stability. It can bring you the ability to do things with your life that is fun and have experiences like that is all true. But there is, I would say a bigger character question there of why do you want to have this millionaire status and to go ahead and bust the bubble. That just because you reach that does not mean that life is suddenly going to be perfect for you.

[George Camel]

That's.

[Olivia]

I feel like that's the myth up there, you know.

[George Camel]

Oh yeah.

[Olivia]

Well, and if I can just do this. And by 30, you know, there's like kind of that whole the fire movement and it's like I'm not going to do anything with my life.

[George Camel]

If this doesn't happen by this age, then my life is over. And I've.

[Olivia]

Right. Yes.

[George Camel]

It's insane. So I just, I rebuke all of the get rich quick. Even if it's with decent intentions and you want to do it the less risky way, there's just no good reason that any human needs to make hundreds of millions or even I need to have a million by this age. And the truth is, Nathan, if you follow the Ramsey baby steps, you're going to get there by 30. Your net worth will be a million dollars or more. Just by staying out of debt, stacking up cash, buying a home, getting the house paid off, investing 15% of your income over time, compound growth is going to take over and do the heavy lifting for you. So that's the not fun answer. But I do think we need a new book from Dave called baby steps 100 millionaires looked it up. It's called Centimillionaires. The Centi millionaire. That's right.

[Olivia]

Oh, so it is a thing.

[George Camel]

Sentimillionaires. You have a hundred million or more.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

I am not cool.

[George Camel]

I. I wasn't. Your words, not mine. That's all I'm saying. Thank you for the. You know, Nathan, it was a good brain exercise, even if it wasn't a pretty wild question.

[Olivia]

Good for you, Nate.

[George Camel]

The fact that a 14 year old thinking that way, he's going to be the world changer out there.

[Olivia]

Sure.

[George Camel]

Because it's going to take being an entrepreneur to make that kind of money or even close. You know, you're not going to make that as a W2 employee likely. But I wish you the best. Maybe Nathan will be calling in at 30, being like, hey, just so you guys know, I have 100 million.

[Olivia]

I'm a. Wait, what was it called again?

[George Camel]

A sentiment Al Termozy. You know, the super beefcake dude. We've had him on the show and he's. He's a Sentai millionaire and he's an entrepreneur. That's how he did it. And he's about my age, so. Call me a failure. Many. Many do. Many do.

[Olivia]

You're still working, George?

[George Camel]

You know, I'm here, I'm doing it. I just do it because I love it. Rachel. I haven't had to work in years. I'm kidding. All right, let's go to the phones. Inar is in Oslo, Norway. We're going international.

[Olivia]

We're going overseas. Here we go.

[George Camel]

What's going on in our.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi, guys. It's such an honor to talk to both of you. I'm great.

[George Camel]

What time is it there?

[Rachel Cruz]

When? Right now. It's 24 past 9pm all right, thanks.

[George Camel]

For staying up with us.

[Olivia]

Appreciate it. Thanks for the call.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[George Camel]

What's your question?

[Rachel Cruz]

Thank you. Okay, my question is how do my wife and I decide the amount and the amount of our personal liner items in the budget? So I'm of a believer that equal isn't always necessarily fair because, for instance, a haircut for her is much more expensive than mine.

[Olivia]

Unless you're George Camel.

[George Camel]

It is the opposite in the Camel household. But yes, it's a good point.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. And you two are the perfect couple to answer this with. A woman, a man, a spender, a savers.

[Olivia]

So, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that the amounts totally could be different. And I'll be honest, Winston and I. Well, I think we may budget the same amount, but I spend mine Every month.

[George Camel]

And Winston probably rarely blows through his fun.

[Olivia]

Yeah, he may. I don't even. Yeah. So we probably technically could budget less for him and he would be fine. I mean, but it's yours.

[George Camel]

Equal in the budget.

[Olivia]

Yeah, I was gonna say it is equal in the budget. You're making me question why do we do that? Why do we not just correct it to what's reality in the Cruz household? I'm not sure.

[George Camel]

I don't think Winston would care if you lowered his amount.

[Olivia]

No. And if Winston wanted to buy something, like.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's how it goes. Once a year, Winston goes, I want to buy this. And he just does it.

[Olivia]

Yeah. He spends all of his money.

[George Camel]

Rachel's like, how much fun money do I have?

[Olivia]

Yeah. So I would. I would agree. I do not think that it has to be equal, but I would. I. And I say that cautiously, hearing people that are listening or watching us now that are not in your position, because you're saying that yours would be lower than hers. Correct?

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct.

[Olivia]

Yes. So I think that is. That is totally fine. But I don't want some crazy spouse out there listening and being like, oh, my gosh, mine gets to be higher and you should lower yours. Yeah, like. Like, yeah, yeah. Like, no.

[George Camel]

I heard on the show they said the husbands should be low.

[Olivia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't want to, like, create, you know, conflict between married couples out there, but if the reality is, is that you are naturally a saver and you're not going to spend as much as she spends, then, yeah, I think it's reality should reflect the budget. So I would for sure and not feel bad about that, because you're right. I mean, as technically speaking, women, I think, do spend more. George is the exception here. You got the right co host.

[George Camel]

But here's the other thing. I don't have any hobbies.

[Olivia]

Except for your dogs and your hair.

[George Camel]

Exactly.

[Olivia]

And coffee.

[George Camel]

And coffee. But I don't go crazy.

[Olivia]

You spend more than. Do you spend more than Whitney, though, a month?

[George Camel]

I wouldn't say in fun money, because I don't. Again, I don't have fun. I went to a movie last night and I was like, wow, I'm really living. That's it. So, inr. Can you give us a number here? Like, I don't know, what's the. What's the currency in Norway? Is it a kroner?

[Rachel Cruz]

Krone, yes. Correct. But to keep it simple, we can just divide the total amount in Norwegian kroner to buy 10, and we got the. The dollar amount okay, we bring in around 6,000amonth. And for the next month, we set up actually equal, so 200 each. But last month we set up 5, 450 for her and to enter. Wonderful.

[George Camel]

And it worked out.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, sure, it worked out, but she feels kind of guilty.

[George Camel]

See, that's something we can deal with outside of this. But it has nothing to do with the budget. It's just she feels like it should be more equal and she feels bad spending. But the budget is permission to spend.

[Olivia]

It is. And it should be a reflection of reality. And the reality is her, you know, what she spends per month is going to be more than, than yours. And, and that's, that's totally okay. Regardless of who brings in the money, put it all together. You say, what is our reality of our life? And that's how we're going to budget. Hey, guys, no matter what your goals are in 2025, our New Year's sale has tools and resources you need to get the year started strong with prices starting at just $9.99. Whether you want to make progress with your money, grow in your career, or create a more peaceful life, you can achieve your goals and these books and products can help. Shop the New Year's sale [e-mail] store. That's ramseysolutions.com store. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls. And up next, we have Seth in New Orleans. Hey, Seth, welcome to the show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hey, thanks for having me.

[Olivia]

Me, Absolutely. How can we help?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I mean, not to be too long with it, but 2018 rolled around and Dave came out to church nearby my house and went and listened to him talk. And, you know, I've been broke and working hard and decided that I'd follow him and be working hard, not broke. And over the last couple years, I've worked real hard and pushed a lot of, you know, seeds in the ground. And this holiday had some of my family over and I have a new property and some new space. And they wound up, you know, asking about the mortgage. We're working on some land and we're asking the mortgage and, you know, I just kind of said, don't have mortgage on the property. And then, you know, one thing came to another and we, it came out that we had a lot more money than my family had ever thought you could have. And it's caused quite a bit of. Quite a bit of a humdig around the family. So.

[George Camel]

So if they ask you for money, are they just upset and envious that you don't have debt and you're not strapped with payments.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yeah, no, all. Yes, all of it. Yes, sir.

[George Camel]

So they straight up said, hey, you doing pretty well, boy, aren't you? You got any of that money laying around for us? Like, was it joking or was it pretty serious?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I mean, we went out for. We have mess of kids, you know, and so we went out one night for something and ice cream was there and I was like, you know, told my kids, grab ice cream, whatever. Kids grab ice cream. Wound up getting ice cream crib, which isn't a big thing anymore. And you know, like, oh, it must be nice, you know. And then the next night they were saying, you know, we're going out to dinner. My wife was only with the dinner family over, so like, oh, just the two of us will go out and they're like, oh, you got us. You can go to. No, I do not. I do not have you.

[George Camel]

So there's, there's assumptions and entitlement now of like, well, he'll cover it because he's doing pretty well, so he should cover it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And is this your direct parents? Like, who, who, who's involved here?

[Rachel Cruz]

Everyone. Yeah, no, everyone asked. Throughout the course of the two weeks after that, you know, they found out about aunts, uncles, cousins, Different. Yes, sir. Phone calls and everything.

[George Camel]

Goodness gracious.

[Olivia]

It's like you won the lottery, but it's taking you.

[George Camel]

How much money do you guys actually have?

[Rachel Cruz]

A lot. I mean, I don't know. A lot for everyone is a lot for what? I thought we, you know, my wife and I picked up, we stopped whining and started working, which is kind of our joke to us. And I don't know, we put some things together and right now, I think we did our net worth at the end, beginning of the year, and it was about right under 4. 4 million.

[George Camel]

Oh, my goodness.

[Olivia]

Great.

[George Camel]

That is amazing. How old are you two?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I'm 37. We're 37.

[George Camel]

So that's incredible.

[Olivia]

And this is mostly your family, not hers?

[Rachel Cruz]

No, her. Her family doesn't know. And, and they, I mean, you're like.

[Olivia]

They'Re not going to.

[George Camel]

We're not telling anybody else after this debacle.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yeah, they're good though. They're all square. They're not. They're not my side. Yeah, they'll be like, oh, good for you.

[Olivia]

All right. Is your family local, Seth? Do you guys have, have like day to day interaction with them?

[Rachel Cruz]

Not so much right now, but yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.

[Olivia]

Okay. But they're local. And you guys usually would, like, kind of do life together. You did. You do dinners together. Like, it. They're a part of your rhythm in life.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, ma'am.

[Olivia]

Okay, Seth, it's about to get uncomfortable.

[George Camel]

How do you feel?

[Olivia]

Are you, like, pissed about it, or are you confused? But with it, are you. Do you feel bad? Like, what. What's your overall emotion?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I was. I was upset the first night, and so I end up calling everyone together the next night. And I was like, listen, my responsibility to take care of my wife and my kids, and I'm gonna do that. And I. I told them I would put them through fpu, you know, and I wrote a list of all the books I read. I mean, I've picked up majority, all the books, and library is free, you know, and so I was like, I tell you, all the books there, you can read those. You know, I'll tell you what I did.

[George Camel]

You're not interested in learning?

[Olivia]

Well, no, it's pretty bold, Seth.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

I was expecting us to have, like, a conversation about. You just did it the day after. So then how do they respond to that? They asked for you to pay for their dinner, I think.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Yeah, pretty much, you know, well, if you don't have it or you don't want to share, you know, and it. It was just a lot of guilt. And so I've been wrestling with it for a couple months now. And I was listening to y'all show, and I was like, you know what? I should probably just call and say, hey, y'all. I mean, you guys have money. I don't have a lot of people in my life to have money. So, you know, I have new friends, I guess, but it's hard to say, you know, to your brother looking at you, hey, you know, you got $10,000 for a business? Like, I don't have $10,000 for your business. I'm sorry, that's not what I have.

[George Camel]

This is not bank of Seth.

[Rachel Cruz]

But I'm not there.

[Olivia]

That's right.

[George Camel]

Well, you've approached us with a lot of tact and wisdom and maturity, which I applaud you for. And the fact they're even willing to have the hard conversation tells me that there is hope here. But it may take a few of these conversations and enough times to where they get the hint. And you know what? That might hurt these relationships. These people may not want to hang out and go to dinner because they have some own resentment that they, you know, some poison they've been drinking.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And So I don't want that to be a reflection on you. And it's going to be painful in some of these situations, but you have to do what's right for your family. And you can't let this generosity turn into requirement because that takes all of the joy out of it.

[Olivia]

Yeah. And Seth and you. And just so you know, and I know you probably know this, but just to say it out loud, like, you've done nothing wrong. Right. And I feel like what can happen is they can pin you in a corner where you feel like suddenly if you don't do something, you're doing something wrong, because. Yeah. Do you have the means? Yeah, you guys do. But you're an adult and you get to decide what you do. Just like what you told them, what you. Your responsibility is to you and your family and what you do beyond that is up to you. But by you existing with this money, that is not a wrong. You're not. You're not in the wrong. And I feel like sometimes you can feel like, oh, my gosh, I've done. I've. I'm the one that's done something that's not good or not. Okay? And so just remember that. That you haven't done. You haven't done anything wrong. And the truth is, and George said it, but it probably, sadly, will create a divide. And I wish that wasn't the case, but I feel like they've proven themselves after you set a pretty strong boundary.

[George Camel]

And we're.

[Olivia]

Were, were very honest and clear, they chose to overstep that boundary and asked you to pay for dinner that night. So I think you have to have a realization, too. And, and you probably already have, but you and your wife stick together as a team and just realize, oh, my gosh, sadly, they, they don't have the maturity to handle this part of your life that, that you brought them into. Right. By sharing this information. And that's sad because it, it may end up causing a divide and stronger boundaries that you're going to have to set.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, no, I, I agree. The, the thing that I kept pushing for was they could do it too. You know, that's what was hard. My heart was. And I'm not trying to withhold from them. I'm trying to, you know, like, I'll walk with you. I'll tell you exactly how I did it. I wrote it all down. You know, I. I'll keep my budgets in paper. You know, I can tell you how I did it. And, yeah, there's a lot of luck and a Lot of things. But, you know, you. You. We could do it together. Like, I'll help you, you know, and they're just, no, I'm not interested in working. I mean, they used to make fun of me in the beginning when I said, oh, yeah, I was gonna follow Dave Ramsey. And they're like, no, don't. Don't do that. You know, that's not gonna make any money. All right. He seems to like his wife and his life. I want to do that too, you know?

[George Camel]

Yeah. And that was my heart. I was like, they're not interested in learning. Entitlement runs far away from work. That's generally how it goes. And so I love the old quote. I think it's a Maya Angelou quote. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time, and if they show their character that this relationship is based on transactions and your forced generosity, then it's not a relationship, and they're choosing to opt out of that relationship if that's how they see you. And so the hardest part about all this is you grappling with the emotions of. That has nothing to do with them. It's you feeling like, I'm not the bad guy here, because they're going to gaslight you and go, man, you're evil. I can't believe that you're so evil. So you're so stingy after everything we did for you. Remember when you were five and I took you. There's gonna be all kinds of things that bubble to the surface now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. That's what my. You pretty much would nail what my dad said. Yeah. 100. Hit him right on the head.

[George Camel]

Dang. Yeah, man.

[Rachel Cruz]

It was an odd conversation. It's odd place to be. But, you know, I. I don't know. I was thinking that maybe. Maybe the best course would be, you know, bend the knee a little bit and just.

[George Camel]

Best courses. I don't flee the country and change your name, but let's not do that, you know? Yeah. The right courses have the hard conversations as many times as you need to, and then you need to draw the line and say, listen, we've talked about this several times. This is where I stand on it. I love you guys, but our relationship can't be based on transactions.

[Olivia]

Yeah. And again, they're choosing this like, that you haven't done anything. You've just done the hard work. Work for five, six years is a good man. I know. And. And this is what is being exposed in them, and you can't control them as much as your heart is so good and pure and wanting that you can't. And I think it's gonna be, it's gonna continue to create that divide and you're, you're gonna continue not to want to let them into your life, which is so sad with family. So I'm so sorry, Seth. I hope you feel encouraged, though. You're doing good. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Rachel Cruz]

Between Christmas shopping and holiday get togethers, investing might be the last thing on your mind. But there are certain things you might need to take care of before the year ends. And you don't have to do it alone. The SmartVestor program can connect you with.

[George Camel]

A financial advisor near you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Whether you've got questions about retirement planning, required distributions, or anything in between, a SmartVestor Pro will walk you through what you need to know. Head to ramseysolutions.com smartvestor to get connected.

[George Camel]

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Rachel Cruz. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You call in, we'll help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Dan is up next in Chicago. How can we help? Dan?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I'm a pastor and I'm been most of my ministry. I've lived in a home that has been provided by the church. And I'm getting ready to retire and my wife and I kind of feel like we need to buy a modest home in order to, you know, perhaps gain a little bit of equity and protect us from, you know, rising rents and things like that.

[George Camel]

That's wise.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm sorry.

[George Camel]

That is wise. I like that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Why?

[George Camel]

It's. No, it's why. Sorry. There is wisdom in that, man. I like that. Okay, so you want to, you want to buy a house when you retire next year?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

How much money do you guys have?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, we, we're going to have about $2,000 a month after the Medicare deduction and Social Security. We've got about $350,000 in a 403 account and we've got $50,000 cash. We don't have any debt. Just didn't know what the right move for us would be. Is it better for us to go ahead and spend the money on rent or is it better for us to try to find a home that's within our price range and then take on a mortgage?

[George Camel]

Well, well, I'll give you the good news and bad news. The great news is you're going to retire with no debt and an emergency fund. The bad news is you don't have much money to put into a house as a down payment to be able to afford the mortgage. Because you said your income is going to be fixed at two grand a month in retirement.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Plus whatever we withdraw out of our three.

[George Camel]

Our 403 and the 403 at 350. I mean, it's not a massive nest egg that's going to last us, you know, 30 years. And so how much money can you guys save in the meantime to get a down payment while you still are working?

[Rachel Cruz]

We're saving right now about $1,300 a month.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

And I'm planning on working, you know, another 10 or 12 months.

[Olivia]

Yes. That'll be close to 15,000. Yeah. I mean, have you looked at homes? I know it says Chicago on the board where you're from. I guess a suburb of Chicago. Have you looked at homes and what they're costing?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. We're really in a small town about west of Chicago, and we feel like we can get a more than adequate home for us for, oh, you know, in the 1 140, 150 range.

[Olivia]

Okay. Yep.

[George Camel]

I would sit down tonight and, you know, pull up the mortgage calculator and say, hey, if we put, let's say, 50 down into a house, we had $100,000 mortgage, what would that be monthly? Because my concern is if you're living off of 2K and you're probably not going to be able to pull a ton off of that 403B while it's sitting at this stage at 350, because you. You would decimate it if you took out 150 from that 4.3B. I mean, that's a large part of your nest egg that you've unplugged from future compound growth. And so I would sit down to see, does it make sense to rent? Can we rent for, you know, 750 in our area versus the mortgage being 1200 bucks? That's the kind of math I'd be doing to see how can we live off of this income. Because it's not a lot of income to live off of, just considering the two grand plus a little bit from the 403B.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Okay.

[Olivia]

But you wouldn't say the rent long term, though, George?

[George Camel]

No, long term, I'd rather have you in a house.

[Olivia]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Right now. It's just there's not a ton of money to. To throw into the house and just purchase it. With cash without just using.

[Olivia]

Oh, yeah. You may not have to purchase it in cash. You could put, put a down payment.

[George Camel]

You put 50 down, took a hundred thousand dollar mortgage.

[Olivia]

Yep.

[George Camel]

I doubt the payment would be astronomically high, but again, if you're making two grand and the payment's a thousand bucks, that's a lot of your world just eaten up by the mortgage.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, well, I didn't know, didn't know what my options were.

[George Camel]

Could you work longer if you could you do an extra year?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I could, yeah, that's, there's not, I'm not under any pressure to retire or anything like that.

[George Camel]

I might just, just to give you guys a little more wiggle room, allow your nest egg to grow, allow you to get more cash for the down payment. That would give me some more peace personally.

[Olivia]

Because you guys could get close to, I mean, if you guys saved for the next two years, let's say you could save up to 30 grand in just that cash flow that you're, you know, living off of, plus the 50 that you have, that gets you close to 50% of a 140 mortgage. You know what I mean? So like your, your math is it can compound pretty quick if you, if you do work maybe one more year.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And I, if I were you in your shoes and I would sit down with a financial advisor who can kind of crunch these numbers for you, but I wouldn't be comfortable taking out more than a thousand or fifteen hundred bucks a month out of that 403B. Because you guys might have another 30 years ahead of you that you need to live off of this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right.

[George Camel]

And so that's where the numbers come.

[Olivia]

Yeah. How much are your expenses a month? Month, Dan, for you guys, how much do you guys spend a month right now?

[Rachel Cruz]

Probably about, I don't know, 28 to 3,000, something like that.

[Olivia]

Okay, so, yeah, so I think what George was, you know, saying that 3,000.

[George Camel]

And that's without paying rent.

[Olivia]

That's right. That's right. So then, yeah, that's 4,000. Let's pretend that the mortgage was a thousand dollars. So that means you'll need 4,000amonth. And so you get the 2,000 that you were saying comes in from Social Security and everything and making sure that you can withdraw again, that we're just speaking on, you know, round numbers here.

[George Camel]

Napkin math would say, you know, taking out 2,000 out of that nest egg every single month, you'd probably run out of money while your expenses may be going up later in life. So that's My concern, I don't want you guys to be down to the wire every single year. That's not the kind of retirement I want to have. And so that's where we were saying, pause, work longer, keep stashing away in that nest egg, stash money away for the down payment, and then see where you're at a year or two from now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. All right. Well, I appreciate your. Your advice.

[Olivia]

Yeah, I hope that helps Danish the.

[George Camel]

Best in retirement for sure.

[Olivia]

And that's, you know, that's a common issue that we hear with people that do ministry and housing is provided is like, oh, my gosh, that's great. I don't have to pay for, you know, rent or a mortgage. And then you get to Dan's age at retirement age, and there hasn't been any intentional saving towards a house.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

And then you're kind of stuck.

[George Camel]

So if you're in that spot, here's what I would do if I was in your shoes, whatever you would be paying market rent, I would take that amount and put it away in an investment account as long as you have that career so that when you do retire, you go, oh, my gosh, we have 400 grand just allocated for housing.

[Olivia]

For a house, because eventually cash. And always remember that your housing line item in your budget is usually, number one, the most expensive and number two, the most volatile. Because rent especially will always be going up. That's what we've experienced Right. Over the last few years. Like it continues to go up. It rarely if it never goes down.

[George Camel]

And so 20 years from now, Dan's rent might be four grand.

[Olivia]

Exactly. So if you like, just say, well, I'm never going to buy a house. I'm going to just be a renter for the rest of my life. Well, that's one expense in your budget that's very expensive and will continue to go up variable versus saying, I'm going to buy a home and I'm going to work to pay it off. That's why it's baby step six. And we actually met somebody at the break, George. She just paid off her house on Tuesday. And someone else that paid off their house that was here for their 40th.

[George Camel]

Birthday in a row.

[Olivia]

Two houses in a row that were.

[George Camel]

People paid off at very young ages.

[Olivia]

Yes. And so that's the beauty is that line item again is. Is out of the budget.

[George Camel]

So retirement has a lot more flexibility.

[Olivia]

That's right.

[George Camel]

When you get that house paid off going into retirement. So that's the goal, Rachel. We've got A really fun little assessment on the website right now that helps people figure out if they're staying on track with the baby steps. So you can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. So here's how you get the get started assessment. Go to the show notes of this episode, the description. Click on the link titled are you on track with the baby steps? And you can complete the quiz.

[Olivia]

Yeah. And this is always helpful because especially if you're new to the show, a lot of people find us on podcast or YouTube and been listening just a little bit, you know, there to know kind of where you stack up against other. Other people, you know, other people, other Americans, but also against the plan. Just to kind of know where. Where am I? Like, how do I even start this process? It helps you really kind of get a baseline for it. And I think that's always helpful if you're, you know, money's an area for some people. They don't really think.

[George Camel]

They never had a plan.

[Olivia]

You don't really.

[George Camel]

Yeah, there's 17 things at once.

[Olivia]

That's right. Yes. But so to get actually a concrete idea of, okay, this is exactly the next thing I need to be doing. It's a great tool, so make sure to check it out.

[George Camel]

Can I tell you one of my secret gear grinders?

[Olivia]

Oh, I can't wait.

[George Camel]

When people say, so, Rachel, we've been doing the baby steps just out of order. And I go, well, then you're not doing the baby steps. If you're investing and trying to pay off debt and saving and you bought a house while you're in debt, I'm like, don't say you're doing the baby steps out of order. Just tell me you're not doing the baby steps.

[Olivia]

Tell me you're investing in it. Just a personal little grudge there, George. You just feel, you know, it's rare.

[George Camel]

That I'm bothered by something. I'm kidding, kidding.

[Olivia]

Well, George is not uptight at all. No worries.

[George Camel]

Tightly Wong high standards.

[Olivia]

Maybe we're going to unwind them. Enjoy this Friday.

[George Camel]

We'll do that after this hour is over. For all of you listening to the show on YouTube or podcast, it is about to end. But you can listen to the rest of the show. We got more to come over on the Ramsey Network app. You can finish the show in a distraction free experience. So go check out the Ramsey Network app in the app store completely free. And you can catch a whole, whole nother hour of this. So don't miss it click the link in the show notes or go watch the rest of the show in the app for free. We'll see you over there.

[Rachel Cruz]

What up?

[George Camel]

What up?

[Rachel Cruz]

It's Dr. John DeLoney from the Dr.

[George Camel]

John DeLoney show with some amazing news. The latest episode of United States of.

[Rachel Cruz]

Anxiety is available right now exclusively on.

[George Camel]

The Ramsey Network app.

[Rachel Cruz]

This docu series follows real people from.

[George Camel]

My show as they embark on a 90 day journey to transform their lives. And I personally walk alongside them every.

[Rachel Cruz]

Step of the way.

[George Camel]

Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about.

[Rachel Cruz]

And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app. What's up, Kelsey? So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life?

[George Camel]

What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right, so you ready to jump in? I'm ready to jump in. We're gonna check in with Kelsey. 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. I cannot even function because I'm just crying. My mom left us when I was 4. I truly felt like for a while I had no family.

[George Camel]

She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy.

[Rachel Cruz]

He triggers me a lot. Scared of losing Paul. Scared of doing the wrong thing. Scared of not being enough.

[George Camel]

It just feels like it would be.

[Rachel Cruz]

Exhausting to be Kelsey. It is.

[Olivia]

Whenever somebody's playing whack a mole with.

[Rachel Cruz]

Their anxiety, when it just keeps moving.

[George Camel]

That tells me the underlying system's not okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show.

[George Camel]

One of two people that's supposed to never leave.

[Olivia]

I was this.

[Rachel Cruz]

I was this burden. You burdened.

[George Camel]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

To the one person who should carry it. All of it.

[George Camel]

Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault?

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know what to do.

[George Camel]

You either have to choose to let this guy love you, or you gotta choose to let this guy go.