Don't Let Debt Steal Your Future

Summary

The Ramsey Show – "Don't Let Debt Steal Your Future"

Date: April 6, 2026
Host: Dave Ramsey, with co-host Dr. John DeLoney

Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show centers on helping listeners identify and break free from financial habits and relationship dynamics that let debt control their futures. Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney answer callers’ questions about money issues, struggling relationships, difficult financial decisions, and the emotional toll of debt. The hosts emphasize communication, unity in couples, practical budgeting, and the foundational steps to lasting financial freedom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Navigating Financial Disagreements in Marriage

(00:37 – 08:29)

• Caller: Jenny from Orlando shares how her higher income hasn’t stopped conflict with her husband over his preference for balance transfers and "buy now, pay later" deals.
• Insights:
  • Shared vision in couples is crucial: Just agreeing on a goal isn’t enough—there must be unity in behaviors and values.
  • Quote [05:08, Dave Ramsey]: “Makes me feel the same way as if you brought home a half a pound of cocaine.”
  • Dr. DeLoney pushes for honest, “heart-under-the-hood” conversations about real fears behind financial decisions.
  • Dave uses personal examples of compromise with his wife, Sharon, underlining the power of mutual respect and “serving each other rather than ourselves.”

2. Mortgage Decisions & Refinancing Math

(10:30 – 15:22)

• Caller: Cody wonders if he made a mistake by moving his mortgage to a 7-year adjustable rate.
• Insights:
  • Dave walks through a breakeven analysis, demonstrating that refinancing only makes sense if the math works and the plan is resilient to life events.
  • Quote [13:49, Dave Ramsey]: “Never put together a financial formula that your plan has to work for it to work. It has to work when the plan doesn’t work too.”

3. Priority of Debt Payoff Before Investing

(15:33 – 19:15)

• Caller: Victoria asks about starting a Roth IRA while in debt.
• Insights:
  • The fastest route to building wealth is focusing all resources on eliminating non-mortgage debt, then investing.
  • Quote [18:02, Dave Ramsey]: “You’ve been a little sloppy. That doesn’t make you bad. It just makes you normal. But normal sucks. We don’t want to be normal.”

4. Top Budgeting Pitfalls and Solutions

(21:42 – 28:14)

• Dave outlines budgeting mistakes: not giving every dollar a job, ignoring core needs (“the four walls”), letting debt creep in, lack of unity between spouses, and quitting after mistakes.
• Emphasizes the importance of regular, 90-day cycles to get on track.
• Quote [25:51, Dave Ramsey]: “When you budget with your spouse, you are agreeing on your fears, your values, your dreams. That’s a level of unity you have no other way.”
• Dr. DeLoney shares his personal “cash only” experiment and how reduced convenience changed his buying habits.

5. Relocation, Marriage, & Community

(32:51 – 42:09)

• Caller: Zach faces a standoff with his wife about moving closer to her family and support network.
• Both hosts stress the importance of proactive relationship work—building community before uprooting—and honest, self-sacrificial communication.
• Quote [35:20, Dr. John DeLoney]: “You all have created a life that’s mostly about you, and she doesn’t like what you’ve created together.”

6. Navigating Family Business, Broken Agreements & Emotional Fallout

(44:00 – 52:03)

• Caller: Ruth is caught in a tough spot after building a multi-generational home with in-laws only to have agreements broken.
• Dave’s advice: Sell, deduct broken promises from payouts, and emotionally “put it in the rearview mirror.”
• Dr. DeLoney on feelings: “All feelings…are digital billboards. Their job is not to tell you the truth… If you want to be a nerd, [it’s] ‘Can I feel this thing and then do the next right thing after that feeling.’”

7. Rebuilding After Life Destruction Events

(53:22 – 60:51)

• Caller: Thomas is a recently released ex-offender contemplating debt to fix a work truck.
• Advice: Don’t borrow; pursue stability and slow progress.
• Quote [60:17, Dr. John DeLoney]: “I don’t want you to walk out of prison and then walk right back in voluntarily. And that’s what borrowing money does. Stay free.”

8. Income Crisis & Debt Spiral

(84:57 – 91:02)

• Caller: Clay struggles with low income, high car debt, and basic expenses.
• Direct advice: Sell the expensive car, get a “hooptie”, dramatically raise income, and “get in the driver’s seat” of life instead of letting things just “happen.”

9. When Family Owes You Money

(75:06 – 79:21)

• Caller: Megan hates owing her parents after a car accident.
• Dave and Dr. DeLoney’s principle: Never lend to family; only give. “Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master.”

10. Financial Entanglements With Co-Parenting & Exes

(65:32 – 73:12)

• Caller: Leslie and husband wonder if they should pay for teen stepdaughter’s driving school while child’s mother is also involved.
• Advice: Former spouses don’t get a vote—make decisions based solely on what’s right for the child, not out of guilt or to “fix” dynamics.

11. Heavy Business and Personal Debt Pile-Up

(94:28 – 103:32)

• Caller: Shelly and spouse are overwhelmed by business loans, tax debt, credit cards, and failed investments.
• The hosts outline a three-prong approach: No more day trading/“schemes”, no more propping up unprofitable businesses, and unity (attack debt together, smallest to largest after paying the IRS).

12. Navigating Loss, Inheritance, & Generational Wealth

(115:57 – 124:39)

• Caller: Mary is a young widow with farmland, a million-dollar life insurance payout, and complex feelings about holding or selling land.
• Advice: Pay off small debts for simplicity and security; keep family land if it’s a meaningful legacy, but always “be looking for a way where the end of the story is, I got zero debt.”

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• Dave Ramsey [03:21]: "I'm not okay with either one of us making a large money decision without the other one... And you keep doing that. And I'm not okay. This is not okay."
• Dr. John DeLoney [07:02]: "Money just becomes the proxy war where everyone wants to fight. The real issue is y'all aren't aligned on this core value."
• Dave Ramsey [13:49]: "Never put together a financial formula that your plan has to work for it to work. It has to work when the plan doesn’t work too."
• Dave Ramsey [18:05]: "Normal sucks. We don’t want to be normal."
• Dr. John DeLoney [35:20]: “You all have created a life that’s mostly about you, and she doesn’t like what you’ve created together.”
• Dave Ramsey [60:29]: “When you borrow money, that bank tells you, I don’t care how you feel, you're going to work tomorrow because I want my money. ... What I don't want you to do is walk out of prison and then walk right back in voluntarily."
• Dave Ramsey [78:00]: "Parents should never, under any circumstances, loan their children money."
• Dr. John DeLoney [102:19]: "Y’all are going to have to decide: this is our debt. You will never conquer this thing if he’s responsible for paying off his and you try to pay off yours."
• Dr. John DeLoney [121:58]: “...It took one bad year to start a debt cycle that they could really never ever get out of. Is there any part of you that wants to sell this thing for $6 million and be done with it and go have a different life?”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:37 – 08:29: Jenny's marital money dynamic
• 10:30 – 15:22: Mortgage refinancing math
• 15:33 – 19:15: Should you invest before paying off debt?
• 21:42 – 28:14: Top budgeting pitfalls
• 32:51 – 42:09: Marriage, moving, and building community
• 44:00 – 52:03: Family, housing, broken promises, and letting go
• 53:22 – 60:51: Life rebuilding after prison
• 65:32 – 73:12: Step-parenting and co-parenting money issues
• 75:06 – 79:21: Family loans and the cost to family relationships
• 84:57 – 91:02: Income crises and debt disasters
• 94:28 – 103:32: Drowning in business and investment debt
• 115:57 – 124:39: Widowed, managing inheritance and preserving wealth

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Memorable Moments

• Cocaine Comparison: Dave’s blunt analogy between secret debt and dangerous drugs to underline how financial behavior can threaten marital trust.
• Cash-Only Experiment: Dr. DeLoney’s revelation about how paying cash (vs. cards/apps) drastically reduced his spending.
• Emotional Regulation: Dr. DeLoney reframes “feeling your feelings” as following the “digital billboards” of emotion—notice, don’t avoid, but don’t let them dictate your actions.
• Callers Dealing with the Unimaginable: From rebuilding after prison, to widowhood, to profound business failure and marriage on the rocks—real stories, tough love, and actionable hope.

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is direct, often humorous, with “tough love” at its heart. Dave and Dr. DeLoney blend practical steps with empathy, always returning to principles: talk openly, budget wisely, eliminate debt aggressively, and align actions with deeply held values. Their message: Don’t let debt—or denial—steal your future, your financial peace, or your relationships.

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For listeners new to the show, this episode is a masterclass in facing financial dysfunction with honesty, accountability, and hope. Whether you struggle with daily expenses, major life upheaval, or simply disunity at home, the timeless advice is: Take back control. Don’t settle for normal—because, as Dave says, “Normal is broke.”

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Dr. John DeLoney, number one best selling author, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show and Ramsey personality. He's my co host host. Today Jenny is with us in Orlando. Hi Jenny, what's up?

[Jenny]

Hello guys. I'm just kind of tired of this financial dynamic that I have with my spouse. For context, we've been together 15 years for almost 40 and I'm the breadwinner. I make about 170,000 a year and he makes 65. I'm more so now getting passionate about not carrying debt, making smart choices and possibly buying a business. But I can't seem to change his mind about these balance transfers and buy now pay later programs. So I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate that dynamic with someone that views money so differently and I typically am the one to rescue and at what point do I stop rescuing from these what I consider to be very poor long term financial choices.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does he have a seat at the table with you?

[Caller or Guest]

He does.

[Jenny]

We talk about finances every single month and I express kind of my displeasure about these things. It's always the same thing. It's 0% interest for 18 months and

[Dr. John DeLoney]

let me, I didn't ask a good question. That's my bad. Do y' all have a co created vision that y' all are both working towards or does every month he come to the table and get taken to the woodshed by the breadwinner, the boss, you get what I'm saying?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Jenny]

I say we're working toward the same vision and he has gotten a little bit better but I can't get him to understand like Even though it's 0% interest, it's still money. He sees it as this is 18 months, it's a scot free deal, it'll be paid before then. We just view it so differently. I'm kind of now learning if you can't pay it cash, you can't afford it.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, that's a great lesson thanks to you guys.

[Jenny]

Yeah, we just view it so differently and it's just building up a lot of resentment and I don't want to like you said, breadwinner, bring them to the table, give me the credit cards,

[Caller or Guest]

I'm going to cut them up.

[Jenny]

But also I just am not in alignment with opening more stuff Just because of the bells and whistles, that they're dangerous on the front end.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The only way I've seen this be successful. And Dave, you've got way more experience with this. The only way I've seen this be successful is you opening the hood to your heart and your spirit and you telling him not, hey, when you do this and you need to do this, and this was dumb, but you saying debt scares me. Debt makes me feel less safe. Debt makes me feel like somebody else is controlling our lives. And I want you and me to be in control of our life. And now he's getting to the source. He's not getting lectured. You get the difference?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not okay. I'm not okay with either one of us. I'm not okay with either one of us making a large money decision without the other one or in perpendicular to the values of the other one. And you keep doing that. And I'm not okay. This is not okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But do you see how what gave

[Dave Ramsey]

you think it's harmless and it's harming me?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not okay. This is scaring the crap out of me. I worry about our future because of this, because we're not aligned.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you've made a bunch of expensive purchases, you go out and buy yourself a car. You lead with that. I've made purchases without even talking to you about it. I got excited about this thing without even talking to you about it, and I'm gonna own that. But I want us to start to do this together.

[Dave Ramsey]

We've got to build a thing together. Because, you know, us being on different pages is harming our relationship. Because it's terrifying me.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Jenny]

I think because of how much I make. Like, he doesn't see 10 or 15,000 as a lot of money. I see it as we owe to someone.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's irrelevant to the feeling.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It doesn't matter who makes more. It doesn't matter who makes what. Doesn't matter how much the income is versus the behavior. It's the behavior that's causing me to be terrified.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You introduce yourself to us as. I'm Ginny, the breadwinner. Does he walk around getting told that a lot? I make more money. I make a lot of money?

[Jenny]

No, but I think it gives him that safety of, oh, it's only 10,000, it's only 15,000. Like, it just seems like so because I make so much. But to me, every dollar I make, I want it to grow and multiply. And he's still doing it this Makes

[Dave Ramsey]

me feel the same way as if you brought home a half a pound of cocaine.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's a lot of cocaine, Jim.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm not going to go this way.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is a violation of my values, and it terrifies me. And it's not a matter of the money. It's a matter of us doing things that are directly a spear point sticking in my arm every time you do this or every time I do something that does that to you. We're not going to do things that we're not aligned on. So Sharon has. My wife has some things after 45 years that she loves to do that I frankly do not understand. There are purchases we make that I have zero emotional investment in, but I can come alongside because I get the point that it's expensive. It's important to her to do that thing, and she gets the same thing with me. Why do you need another gun? You know? Well, because somebody made one, so, you know, it does. Not emotionally, but she goes, okay, it's within our. And it's within my emotional tolerance to do something with money that I don't understand, but I know gives you joy. Same thing with her. Buying whatever X, Y, or Z, or putting some money in savings a certain way makes her feel different than it does me. That kind of a thing. And so all we're doing is serving each other rather than ourselves. It's selfishness versus submit yourselves one to another. Scripture says, and it's the other one that's hard. You submitting to me is easy. Me submitting to you, that one's hard. By submitting, it doesn't mean I do what you say. It means I care what you think so much that we're not going to do something that terrifies you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And. And she brought up a great point here that I see couples get sideways on, which is it really matters. She said, I want every dollar to be roi multiplying and growing. And it sounds like she has a husband who wants to kind of just enjoy the life he's in. And that is money just becomes the proxy war where everyone wants to fight. The real issue is y' all aren't aligned on this core value.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what you. I. I don't want the audience to miss what you just said because it's important you make. Wee bit. We barely more than 175k a year. I think you sneeze that this morning. But, like, you and Sharon still talk about purchases.

[Dave Ramsey]

We do not make large purchases or gifts.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Without the other one being approved. Yeah. And, you know, and sometimes the approval is laughing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it's like. But there's knowledge ahead of time, and we don't get a. It's like, oh, you know, well, let's sit on that a week and pray. Okay, That's a fair answer, too. Yeah. I don't. I don't understand. Why are you doing that? And explain. Okay, I still don't understand. All right, let's wait a minute. You know, so yes, no, or wait, these are three possible answers. And all tightwads and nerds can't have every dollar behaving with no fun involved. The other person's there to bring the fun. So I think he's your fun person, so you use him for that. He's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And fun people have to realize bills have to be paid every month, which is annoying. Right. And we need the other side, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, there's all that thing that the grocery store wants money for those groceries. Who knew? Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And. Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost. Lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me, too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me, too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here, and, you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad, to just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying, I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Cody is in chat. Hi Cody, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm doing good. How are you doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

Great.

Appreciate you taking the call.

Hey.

I am a first time homeowner. I bought my house about 6 months ago. I got it on a 15 year doing bi weekly payments but I just got and going through the process of switching to an ARM loan. So a seven year adjusted rate mortgage. I closed on it today. I've got three days to cancel it if I need to and I feel kind of in my gut like I might have been making a bad decision and I wanted to chat with you about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What was the interest rate on your old mortgage?

[Caller or Guest]

5.625.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the interest rate on the ARM

[Caller or Guest]

is it's going to be 499 for the next seven years.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 5. What was the one you got rid of? Was 5.

[Caller or Guest]

What is 5.625?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's less than 1%. And your loan balance is what it is.

[Caller or Guest]

When I got the house it was 192.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your loan balance today?

[Caller or Guest]

I've managed to pay it down to 168 in the past six months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so 1% is $1600 a year is the difference. And it's not even that. So it's probably $1,400 a year is your difference. And what was your closing costs on this?

[Caller or Guest]

My closing costs are going to be about $8,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're not even going to break even.

[Caller or Guest]

That's what I'm looking at too. And my goal is to pay this off in the next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't matter. Your goal's irrelevant on this. It's just a simple refinance calculation. If you save $1,400 a month, $8,000 for that purpose and the loan is going to be paid off in seven years. You're not even going to make your money back in interest saved that you paid out in closing costs. Your break even analysis sucks.

[Caller or Guest]

Got it. So my, my payment right now is 1800. It would drop down to 1167. I need to cancel this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller or Guest]

Cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, you see why. Regardless of what your payment change is, it's the interest change that matters. The only real SA is the interest savings. The difference in 562 and 499, which is what? 0.75. Three quarters of a point. Right. Three quarters of a point. One point is $1680. So three quarters of a point is around 1400 bucks.

[Caller or Guest]

Got it.

Got it.

And I think I had done my math wrong towards the front end of doing this. And in closing, I think I kind of started to figure that out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can I pile on now? Are you okay?

[Caller or Guest]

Please, please buckle up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which is really just to go back to the real reason that this thing. Let's pretend that we had not found that mathematical problem, and instead you just had signed up for an adjustable rate that adjusts one time in seven years. If you don't pay it off in seven years, it's going to adjust dramatically. You know that, right?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so if your plan doesn't work out, you've got a problem.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Never put together a financial formula that your plan has to work for it to work. It has to work when the plan doesn't work too.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because that's the stuff that we teach is the only stuff. Common sense stuff, the biblically based stuff. Get out of debt, for instance. Okay. That's the only plan that works when things are good and the plans work out. And when the plans work out. Yeah. So you did a deal here that only works if it works. And those kinds are the ones that will come around, bite you in the butt later. And so you probably would be okay, because if it adjusted to, you know, 9 or 10% or something crazy at the end of that seven years, it wouldn't be much of a balance because you would have paid it way down, but you would not be able to refinance if you were unemployed at that precise moment, which. I've gotten that call. I plan to pay off this balloon in five years. And in the 48th month, 612 months before the balloon pops, I lost my job and my wife got a cancer diagnosis. And. And so we're just. Now our house is being foreclosed on because you built a plan that only works when things work. Right. And that's. That's what. That we wouldn't have a show if there wasn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was gonna say, like, doctors and lawyers. Like, there'd be way fewer of them and guys like us if everyone's playing. Worked all the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, the one thing is, your plan's

[Dave Ramsey]

probably not going to work like functional families. We wouldn't need people with PhD in counseling.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's exactly right. It's like if people used a calculator.

[Dave Ramsey]

Most families put the fun and dysfunctional. So, I mean, it's, you know, including mine. So there you go. All right. Fun. Victoria is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Victoria. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm doing well.

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

Hi.

I am looking to see. I am 300, $227 and 600 in debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm sorry, I didn't understand that number. That was a number. I didn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What was that number?

[Dave Ramsey]

300. What? $300,000.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, indeed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And. And how much of that is your home, ma'? Am?

[Caller or Guest]

255,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What is the other 45,000 in debt?

[Caller or Guest]

It is student loan. And then I have a car. That's 12,000. And then my air conditioner went out. That is 2,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your air conditioner went out and you borrowed to get another one?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the 2000. Okay. All right. Air conditioner go out doesn't put you in debt. It's the buying the other one that goes you into that. Okay, so the. And what do you make, ma'? Am?

[Caller or Guest]

I make between 100 to $150,000 a year.

[Jenny]

I didn't work any overtime.

[Caller or Guest]

It would just be a hundred if I do add overtime.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Good for you. Okay, I'm quite. I'm caught up with you now and your questions. What?

[Caller or Guest]

Like, would it be smart for me

to open up a Roth IRA now,

[Dave Ramsey]

even though I'm still in debt and

[Caller or Guest]

I'm paying off my debt, or should I wait till I get all my debt off of me first before I open up the Roth ira?

[Dave Ramsey]

That is an excellent question. And the good news is you're smart enough to know you need to be investing. That's very smart. Okay. How old are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I am 32 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're already looking out into the future. Good for you. Well done. So what we have found is after studying this for many, many years and helping millions of people get out of debt and build wealth and tens of thousands of them become millionaires. Is the fastest way to become a millionaire. The fastest way to build substantial investments is to first get out of debt. Because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. Now, I'm not talking about your house, but we want to get rid of the student loan and the car debt and the air conditioner debt as soon as we can. And the good news is it's only 45,000. And if you work overtime, you can make 150 and live on 100 and be debt free. In one year. You'll be 33 with no debt. That'd be pretty cool. But you got to buckle down more than you ever have.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you've Been a little sloppy. That's how we got here.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

That doesn't make you bad. It just makes you normal. But normal sucks. We don't want to be normal.

[Caller or Guest]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so let's buckle down. Get on beans and rice. Rice and beans. Get on a budget. Get that every dollar app. Download it off the web for free. Get your budget going, and let's knock these debts out ASAP and lay it out on paper where you're done in one year or less. Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

One year less. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's 45 from 150. Leaves me 105 to live on, not counting taxes. You can do that.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Once you focus, because you're a person that focuses. I can tell. But now that you're paying attention, now that you're awake, game on.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

Game on. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And you can do this. And so then what's going to happen is. Is that what you used to pay on car payments and student loan payments? When you start putting that into an investment, that amount alone will make you a millionaire before you retire.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, Sir. Pay the 45 off and then open the ward.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, ma'.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Am.

[Dave Ramsey]

We teach a process for getting out of debt and then building wealth we call the baby steps. And again, millions of people have done it. I'll send you a copy of the book, the Total Money Makeover as my gift. And it shows you exactly how to work those baby steps. And don't make up your own plan, Victoria. Do the one we have that works. It's proven. It's proven. It's not because somehow we just dreamed it up. It's millions and millions of people have done that. I've sold 20 million of those books. So we know this is moving the needle. And you're. You're awake now. So. Game on.

[Advertisement Voice]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

advertisement in MLS ID 1591 nmlsconsumeraccess.org equal housing lender.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm really starting to, I mean, I was mildly amused with AI to start with with, but I'm really starting to love it once I understood this one basic thing about AI. Here's something you gotta understand. So AI obviously generates an answer for you. You pose an answer for it, but the only thing it can answer from is the data that you give it access to. And so if you control the data inputs, you're controlling the outputs. So for instance, when Google has lost its stupid mind and actually is when you ask Google a question, it's searching Reddit as if Reddit is some source of truth on anything. 90% of what's in there is bullcrap. So why you would search that for the answer to a question is beyond me. So the AI database is completely screwed up. And so your answer's screwed up. But we understand this now and our team has built the Ask Ramsey AI tool. And what's in it? What's the data that publishes in it? Well, we put three years of the answers from this show in there. We put all the Financial Peace University in there, all the books we've written here in there. We put all the articles that we've written in there. So there's nothing in there except Ramsey. All the answers from anywhere we've given, one of us has given, you know, Dr. Deloney, me, Rachel, whoever. And it drops in there. So when you hit the Ask Ramsey AI app, it's going to give you an answer that sounds even as smart aleck as you're going to get here on the air. I mean, it's even got some of the sarcasm in it. It's awesome. I want him to turn up the sarcasm a little bit more.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They took all my jokes about George out though, and that kind of bubbled me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really? Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, he got his feelings hurt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ask Ramsey about George joke.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He drove home in his Tesla in a huff. Except there was no huff because there's no huff coming out the back of his Tesla.

[Dave Ramsey]

See, there's a good George joke right there. All right, so here's some. We get questions and we always go down. And because you need to check this app out, it'[e-mail] it's Ask Ramsey. If you can't get through on the air here, which nobody can because these lines are jammed all the time, you can just go over there and ask Ramsey. So here's the number, and we always come in and give you the number one question of the week. So the number one question this week are, what are the top pitfalls to avoid when budgeting? So I read an old Zig Ziglar quote this weekend that said no one accidentally got to the top of Mount Everest. I always say no one accidentally won the Super Bowl. Winning is an intentional act. And so if winning with money is an intentional act, what are the tactical things you do? Budgeting is the main one. You tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. You give every dollar an assignment every month before the month begins. And that's how we even name the app, the budgeting app. Every dollar. Okay, so top eight pitfalls to avoid when you're doing your budget. Make sure you give every dollar a job. Now, this is not your checking account balance. This is your budget. And so there's no can be no money left over. If it's left over. You need to have a category that's called leftover money. So at least then it's got a name. But it should be going to miscellaneous or fun or debt reduction or to something, right? So no money left over. Now, money left over in your checking account is good. You need to leave a little slush in there. But your zero, your budget should go to zero every month. The second one is, then you guess at it. You do a budget and you don't follow it. You just go, ah, I kind of thought I no, you got to go like, this is how much we have for groceries, and we're not buying more groceries than this. We run out of groceries after this day. And so period. Then the other one was we ignore the four walls. We don't take care of the important stuff first. The important stuff is groceries and utilities and housing and utilities and transportation. Another one is you let debt steal your momentum. Letting more debt in or refusing to sell something that's got a bunch of debt on it that's got you stuck. And so you can't get the math to spin and start to. You can't get any margin to start to make some process. You need a miscellaneous category. Everyone needs a miscellaneous category. You need a his and her spending category. The small but it's unaccounted for. It's just money you can blow money you can get rid of. You need to be budgeting, and this is the biggest one with your spouse. So the two of you sit down, even if it's for 15 minutes, even if it's for two hours with the kids in bed. We go over the budget, we both agree to the budget, and then we freaking stick to the budget. This is our contract. This is an agreement with each other. We pinky swear and spit shake. We're doing this. When you budget with your spouse, you are agreeing on your fears, you're agreeing on your values, you're agreeing on your dreams. And when you agree on that much stuff, you're going to have a level of unity in your relationship. You had no other way. Another thing is, if you make a mistake and have a bad month, people quit. Don't quit. Get back on the horse. Go ride it again.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I have a buddy who talks about that in the nutrition space, about you're on a diet and you have one bad day and then you're just like, ah, I blew it. He said, that's like walking outside in the morning, heading to work, and you see you have a flat tire, and you pull out a knife and deflate all the other tires, too. He's like, fix that tire and get on to work. And when he said it like that, I was like, oh, yeah, that's dumb. Okay, so I had pizza. I'm gonna get back on in the morning.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, just get back with it. So you messed up. You're human. Oh, no. And here's the thing. You have to adjust for irregular expenses when you first do your budget. You suck at this. You've never done it before. It's not going to be right. Your first 30 days, you're probably gonna have some emergency budget committee meetings and adjust and raise one category and lower some other ones by the same amount because it's still gotta equal zero. And it takes about 90 days, about three budget cycles to quit fighting about it, to get on the same page about it, and to actually get your numbers right. Because we think we're doing one thing with food, and we're actually spending twice that. We think we're doing one thing with whatever. And we didn't realize, oh, we forgot children's activities. Like, well, let me just help you. Children have activities.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or a doctor bill that's seven months old just comes out of the blue and you got a. Like, it just shows up and who knew?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I forgot about it. Forgot. I went, yeah, that's all there. So these are the this is the top pitfalls to avoid when budgeting and straight out of the Ask Ramsey tool. Almost like we said it, because we did.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I tell you something? This is a very personal, private experiment I've been doing. N equals 1. And I got to tell you, you and I haven't, we haven't hung out in a while and I'll just tell you right here on the air. Oh, my wife and I March 1st cancelled Amazon Prime. And the second thing is, I said for the month of March and the month of April, I'm just going to use. I'm going to go old school and just use cash and at every transaction. At every transaction.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In fact, today was the first thing I've spent with a card to get.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it's April.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, well, I didn't, I just, I was like, oh, I forgot cat. Like I'm, I'm still practicing. It's my first, first one that I didn't keep up mind of the bargain I made to myself. I got to tell you two things. One, the ability to just click it and buy it versus I'm gonna plan and go to the store has so insanely reduced the number of things I buy. I never in a million years would have thought that. The second thing is I just thought like, oh, I need those socks or I need that thing or I need those light bulbs, whatever. I'm just gonna click, click, click, click, click, and they just mail them to my house. When I have to get out and go to the store and plan, I just buy less. Like, we don't need that right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you forget it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or the socks I got. Yeah. The second thing is, you've taught this for years as I'm just putting over cash. It is painful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It sticks in a way that just waving my phone over the little beepity beep thing, it is causing me to rethink all the stuff I buy. What gas costs in a very visceral way. And it's, it's, it's just, it's a reminder at how the credit card companies, the tech companies, in an effort to make everything comfortable and quote unquote, reduce friction, have taken away our, our, our internal like metric system for this hurts. Do you really need this? Do you want this? And man, I do this. I'm, I'm with you on this show. And I've been shocked at how my spending habits, frictionless habits have, have taken over.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, and your, your psychology brain is probably in. Oh, dude, you're melting down analyzing all this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I'M I'm trying to connect what I'm feeling versus what I'm doing. And, man, that bridge is, I need a lot less stuff. And man, using cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the other thing is, you cannot replace the weird looks you get when you pay cash for things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I. I did have one exchange where I in there. Like, they're looking around at me like I was handing them a snake. And I said, hey, I. That's all I got, so if y' all don't take, like, money, I'm gonna have to. And they're like, no, no, you can. You can do it. We just gotta. I don't know how to open the drawer. I mean, it was a whole thing. I felt like I rode up to, like a store on a horse. Worse, you're dead.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Zach is in North Carolina. Hi, Zach, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey.

Doing wonderful. Appreciate y' all taking the call. Big fan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, couldn't ask for a better duo. I was hoping you could help resolve a disagreement between me and my wife.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. I love these. We're probably gonna be right.

[Caller or Guest]

I'm sure you are. She would like to move back to where we're from.

Where?

More family and friends for. We've got an 18 month old baby girl and she'd like some more help. And where is that? Versus Charlotte.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're in Wilmington. How far. How far is Wilmington from Charlotte?

[Caller or Guest]

About three Three and a half. Not bad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

All right. Versus. I've built a, let's say, fairly successful real estate career over the past decade here. And just trying to resolve that issue and trying to. Trying to figure it out, because starting over in a different market is terrifying and just doesn't sound feasible to me. And trying to find a. Maybe a middle ground or just get walked through it, if you will.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What would a middle ground look like?

[Caller or Guest]

That's a great question.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't hear. I don't hear a middle ground here, so I'd love to hear if you've got one.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I guess I'm looking for a vibe.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you guys?

[Caller or Guest]

33.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah,

[Caller or Guest]

33.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you've been. You've been in this market for 10 years?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir.

13 women.

[Dave Ramsey]

Has she been there 10 years?

[Caller or Guest]

Six. We've been here.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long y' all been married? Six.

[Caller or Guest]

We're both from.

Yes.

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So the baby is the. Is the thing that caused the change? Because there was probably no.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

No big deal before that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, Mike. Mike, I would bet the opposite. Has this been brewing for a while? We don't have any friends. I'm kind of all alone while you're out running deals. And then the baby just brought that onto the surface.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Okay. All right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because. Because that story, like, there is the draw. I want to be around family. I want. I want all my. All of the family's chickens, you know, in the same roost. Like that. That's common. I totally get that. But just listening to you talk about your career and, like, that makes me think she is rapidly feeling like she is living a life that she doesn't like living. She doesn't. You all have created a life that's mostly about you, and she doesn't like what y' all have created together.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir.

Yeah, we've got. We got my folks here, but that's not enough. And she doesn't have the village that she needs, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Just having a hard time with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So is the. Is the fear all. All market based that you have this job? It's comfortable, you know how it all works. And the thought of starting over again at 33, which, by the way, you're not going to be starting over, but it feels that way, and I get that that. Is that what makes you nervous? Or do you also not want to live there? You don't want to be around her family, you don't want to be around her old Friends. Is that part of it too or not really?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, a little bit of a combo. Not that I don't want to be around them, but I just, I don't know, it's just taking so long to get where we're at now and just starting over, it's extremely overwhelming.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would a sit down with a good marriage counselor and keep talking about this for a while to keep yourselves from getting too entrenched. And then I would probably throw out the challenge of two things and this is just old guy talking. And then I'll let the real psychologist over here answer the question. But number one, going back, you can't ever go back home. I drove through my neighborhood that I grew up in the other day. It's not the neighborhood I grew up in. Yeah, it just is the neighborhood I grew up in, but it's not the neighborhood I grew up in. You know what I'm saying? Things have changed. And her old friends have changed. And the comfort she thinks she's gonna get from being near her mother is not as much as she thinks it is. And so she's painted this romantic picture of how she's gonna step back into all of this connection that she used to have. And none of those people are the same and most of them aren't still there. And some of them you don't even want to be connected to. And so it's a false picture to a large degree. This romance of this is gonna be, you know, it's all unicorns and skittles over there is bull crap. Okay, that's my opinion. You just can't go back. And so, I mean, I visit my old, whatever, school, church, whatever. It just, I walk in there and I'm going, what were we doing here back then?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

A common refrain that you'll hear from people is wherever you go, y' all are going to go with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so if y' all have built a life where she thinks she worked too much, she feels alone inside her own house. Y' all sit by each other on the couch and you're scrolling on your phone checking deals and she's trying to connect with you, but she's on her phone.

[Dave Ramsey]

That code doesn't matter.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That same dynamic is going to end up there.

[Dave Ramsey]

The second thing I would propose is with the help of a therapist that's keeping you guys nimble and flexible and talking and understanding each other's needs as you're going into this is I would go on a hardcore six month experiment to build community, plug into a church, invite People to your house, invite neighbors to your house, invite church people to your house, invite work people to your house, have dinners, develop some friendships. You're not friends with anybody because you've not been friends to anybody. And no one initiates in this stupid digital culture anymore. And if you all would initiate, you're probably going to have more friends in six months than you would ever have in any other location. But you need to work at the friendship and community building thing because you've spent zero calories on it so far. Both of you, John, agree.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And the layer underneath that one is I think there's some real power in sitting across the table from your wife and saying, if this is true, don't say it if it's not true. But over the last six years, the market's been up and down. Six years ago you were living high. Right. And then the last four years it's been. You've been grinding it. I've put this ahead of you. And I want to build. And essentially I want to build a new marriage. What does it look like for me to walk in the door and put my phone down and be present with you? The deal will wait. What does it look? How can I love you better? And by the way, I don't want to make this all one sided. There's stuff about her that you miss and you're able to say, here's what I. Here's ways you can love me right now. But I want you to go first. Use the word I. I haven't shown up. I have made my life about business. I've been really proud about this. And you've been telling me for two years, three years, four years. I'm lonely. Can we go hang out? Will you put your phone down? And I haven't done those things. That changes today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Have you protected her from your mother?

[Caller or Guest]

I have.

I think a lot of it has to do with. We're in it. We're in a secondary vacation, primarily home market. We're not in Wilmington and probably the course of the city. And she's got her sister and her kids there who are the same age as our daughter. And her best friend of 20 years is there and just harder to make friends here than it is there. I think that has a lot to do with it. Plus lack of sleep and blah, blah, blah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, and I think you get into all of that, but I really would explore some new attempts at building the life there before I left.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There, there and then.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then if you can't and you decide based on that the only place we can build the life we both want is I'll, I will make the sacrifice to rebuild my market in another place.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And here's what that's going to cost is there's going to be a. We're going to have a cut, an income. Like we're going to plan for this. We're not just going to be emotional and reactive about it. We're going to plan for it. So it's not going to be tomorrow. But Dave, I, I always want to tell especially young hustlers like this guy that's just out there grinding the proof of your future success is often your like past. You've shown yourself you can get in there and grind and build it. You can. And so to say I won't be able to. It's not going to happen. I don't think that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's terrifying. It doesn't feel like he needs. He doesn't feel like he has to. If, if she just had friends or

[Dr. John DeLoney]

her sister or her cousins or her nieces and all that kind of stuff. But, but I, I love the idea of y' all two sitting on the same side of the table and putting the problem on the other side of the table and making sure, like Dave said, y' all don't come a seam at the part come apart the seams at each other. It's you versus me. One of us is going to win this. It is. How do we build the life we want? And that includes how do you want this house to feel? Where is this going to be? What's it going to look like financially? Who do we want running around our house?

[Dave Ramsey]

So we did, we did this, John. Okay, 45 years ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's that?

[Dave Ramsey]

When I got married, my wife came three hours from her family.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Huh? Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Moved into a city where she knew no one. We did this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, we exactly did.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we did exactly what I said just then. It's exactly what we did. And she's never one time said she wanted to go back home. But we built community.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your Host John DeLoney, Dr. John DeLoney Ramsey Personality Number One Best Selling Author is my co host. Today Ruth is in Nashville. Hi Ruth, what's up?

[Jenny]

Hi.

[Caller or Guest]

So I'm calling because my husband and I built a multi generational house with his parents. Now only less than about a year and a half later, my mother in law has moved out and will soon stop helping with the mortgage payment. So we will either have to have to sell the house with very little equity in it or we will lose the house. She says she wants part of the sale of the house. But how can I move forward without feeling as much hurt or animosity towards my mother in law?

[Dave Ramsey]

Could I venture a guess that before any of this was done or signed up for, you had a bad feeling about it?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're really mad at yourself.

[Caller or Guest]

There's a good part of it that I am mad at myself. Yeah.

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What happened?

[Caller or Guest]

So my husband and I came up to my in laws with the idea to build a multi generational house back in probably late 23, early 2024. His dad had had a stroke back in 2008 and was in poor health. So we were talking and we talked about how important it was for him to be with his dad when the time came. When time came. And so we brought up this idea with them and we were very clear. We had a budget of $1,500 for our half of the mortgage. So whatever we chose has to fall within that. It ended up life was building, ballooning a bit and we ended up with a $3,600 payment rounding up. So they said that they would cover, you know, whatever we could not cover with the 1500. We moved in in September of 24 and by last June, so 25, my father in law passed away. And it was there. As painful as it was to be there, it was also I would never take that time back.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was kind of what you signed up for. Yeah, that's good. That part's good.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So did you put equity into the house?

[Caller or Guest]

Me and my husband put about 100, maybe a little over a hundred thousand into the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it won't bring enough for you to get your hundred out.

[Caller or Guest]

We may just get our hundred. So we put in 100, his parents put in 100, but it was like a $660,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So would there be enough to get her hundred and your hundred out of ten?

[Caller or Guest]

Probably not. Both of our hundred. She has. Yeah. We're hoping to get close, but she has since started dating a guy in mid July and moved in with him in August. And she was. She first promised that she would cover the normal part of the mortgage. She wasn't taking that away from the picture. And then January, she said, no, I have to go 5050. Which I was a little annoyed, but I mean, I dealt with it because it was fair. And then just last month, she said, no, I'm not paying half. I will only be. I will only be paying 1500 and soon I will not be contributing to the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I assume there's no written. There's no written agreement, right?

[Caller or Guest]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Just her text messages saying, this is what is happening.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the reality is the house is gone.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So sell it immediately and deduct what she. She promised to pay everything above 1500 originally. And whatever she doesn't keep her promise on, deduct that from her half of the proceeds.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

To make the deal fair, to make her. She's going to honor her word. I'm just taking it out of her hide. But there's so much to be disappointed in with this lady. But none of it is your fault and none of it is anything you can do about. And really, I would be so disappointed with her in all things except the house. There's just so much that's wrong. About what? Everything. It's just sad.

[Caller or Guest]

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

And let's walk away. Let's walk back. Then the house is gone. You have roughly your hundred in your hand, and you go start the next chapter of your life. And then the way I would quantify that, and I may be over compartmentalizing so that my psychologist over here may correct me, but the way I would do that is I say, okay, whatever money I lost, whatever tears I have shed over the stupidity of this deal was worth it for that precious six or eight months and to be there when Pop passed.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that was the cost of that. That's what it cost me for to have that. I traded this for that and then leave it there and walk away emotionally, put it in the rearview mirror, and then you've got her to deal with and her misbehavior, which is just a separate issue. But I. You know, she's just out of control and. And is grieving in a weird way and on a dysfunctional way, and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, she's met somebody, and he's. He's whispering in her ear because he wants that money in his pocket, not in yours.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Ruth, can I use your situation, your original question, as like a miniature teaching moment here?

[Caller or Guest]

Sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because you asked a really powerful question, and I think this question is drowning us as a culture. How can I do these hard things that I gotta do that were not what we agreed upon and not feel sad, resentful, all these other feelings? All feelings are. They're just. They're digital billboards. As you're driving down the highway of life, they're giving you information. And if you think of them that way, they are powerful and they're important data. But their job is not to tell you the truth. It's to keep you safe on this road you're driving on called life. And if you were driving down I65, we're all here in Nashville. If you're driving down this main artery highway that goes through our town, our city, and you said, I want to avoid all signage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That would be a nightmarish ride. You would never get where you actually want to go. And so what I want to tell you is. And everybody listening, and I'm. This is the pot talking to the kettle. I'm a big, emotional, big feeling guy, too, is I. I want us to all collectively stop trying to build lives where we try to work around feelings. Let's go right through the stinking middle of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If you're going through hell, keep driving.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I'm gonna feel. I'm gonna feel sad. I'm gonna feel frustrated. I'm gonna feel xyz. This is what maturity is. This is what emotional regulation is. If you want to be a nerd, it is, can I feel this thing and then do the next right thing after that feeling. Feeling. And it doesn't mean that your feelings are wrong, bad. I. I don't judge feelings anymore. Have all the ones you want. What I'm going to look at is, what's the thing I did next after that feeling? And so be heartbroken, be sad, be pissed off, be all those things.

[Dave Ramsey]

And still sell the house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Still sell the house.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And still execute on the proper way to handle the money at the transaction at the sale of the house and all of that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Still choose to. I, I, I'm gonna to draw up a contract with this woman as we sell this house or whatever.

[Dave Ramsey]

Still next time I have a bad feeling about a deal, I'm gonna listen to it. I'm gonna listen to my bad. When the, my dad used to say when the bell rings, the bell's ringing for Listen to the bell. It's ringing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's a great, that's a great line.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, listen to it. Listen to it. Listen.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That, that doesn't mean it's right, but I'm gonna at least listen to it and talk to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

When in dou.

[Jade]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Thomas is in Dallas. Hi Thomas, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Good. How you doing, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey. So I'm basically a subcontractor working for a company. I have to be doing a lot of driving. Need a personal vehicle right now my boss is lending me one of his. I currently have a broken down truck that needs an, that needs an engine. Probably around a $5,000 fix. If I get that fixed, my boss will give me the equivalent of a 20 to 33% raise across the board on my job. The question is whether or not to take out a loan to do that. And then since right now the income that I'm getting fixed pretty good. So I can literally.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you doing? Great.

[Caller or Guest]

What's that?

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do for a living?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm a clean swimming pools.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so a $5,000 or $6,000 truck will get the job done as long as it runs and gets you there. Right.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, so I currently have a vehicle

[Dave Ramsey]

that is broken down.

[Caller or Guest]

It needs an entry.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know you told me that. I don't want to fix it. It's crap. I'd rather just Buy one that's already running. Okay, so what can you sell that piece of crap for that salvage? A thousand bucks? Fifteen hundred?

[Caller or Guest]

Not quite sure. I haven't priced that yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. What, what, what kind of, what kind of year model and what truck is that that's sitting with no engine?

[Caller or Guest]

2001 or maybe a 2003 Ford F150.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. So you can buy that car with an engine running for five or six grand. Yeah. Okay. And what, what are you making? How much do you make before he gives you this 20 or 30% raise?

[Caller or Guest]

Net is 33.5. Gross is 30. After my 10.

99 taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

33.5. $33,500.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

I'm making about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. And so a 20% raise is $7,000. That sound right? Yeah. 20% of 33. Okay. And so, yeah, the. So you break even after one year.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you spend $7,000 to get a truck and he pays you 20%. How long have you been working for this guy?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, so, so he's the one that trained my dad. I've been working for my dad for ever since I'm 20. I'm 28. I've been working for my dad off and on since I've been 15. I. I recently had life destruction events and have been literally have started working last week back in this job that I had like.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's a life destruction event?

[Caller or Guest]

I. I had a mental health crisis during the mental health crisis, but there was family violence happening between me and my wife. I got put in prison for that. Even though in Texas there's supposed to be provisions for preventing. For helping people with mental health to not just put them in prison, but

that didn't happen with me.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How long were you away?

[Caller or Guest]

Two years and a month. And then I got a violation and was back in for another five months. So I'm back out a week now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Don't borrow money, please.

[Dave Ramsey]

You do not need to borrow any money. You're coming off of a highly unstable situation and you haven't stabilized yet. At least we don't know that. We hope you have. And you hope you have. Okay. If you told me this was all three years ago, it might be a different discussion. It wouldn't be a discussion about borrowing money. It would be a different picture. But instead, we're three minutes into this, not three years into this. So you need to sustain a life with very little stress and adding debt to this is not the thing. So thank you, boss, for the new job. I'm sorry. I'm a minute out of prison and I don't need to be borrowing money right now. I'll have to drive your truck for a while longer until I can save up and pay cash for something.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How long till you can save up six grand?

[Caller or Guest]

That's kind of. That's kind of the issue. The all my money is basically kind of breaking even in my every $0 budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where's it going?

[Caller or Guest]

One second most biggest expense is 300 in gas. Since I'm spending about 105, I'm purchasing about 105 gallons a month. Come on, Mode, please.

Cool.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is your rent?

[Caller or Guest]

That's it. Me and my wife are currently separated. She has a $500 rent. I have a $250 rent.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have to pay the $500 rent?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why

[Caller or Guest]

currently? Because we have. We have two kids. She's basically stay at home. Her family sometimes helps, but if I'm paying this stuff, she doesn't ask for the money. And currently, because of the family violence, there's a no contact order. So I cannot coordinate anything with her. So I'm kind of defaulting to doing everything, basically.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, I'm gonna help you. You don't have to do everything. You need to make sure the kids have something to eat. But she also is gonna have to make a life without you. And so she. And. And that means she has to develop a way to live sustainably without you feeding her. Okay? So right now we've got to get you up and stable. So your 250 rent, even 500 going out for her still not used up all your money. So you've just started. This is real fresh. Thomas, please don't go borrow money to buy a truck. To work for a guy that you've been working for for 10 minutes, even though you've known him a hundred years. This whole thing, everything in your life has been quick and sudden and fast, impulsive. And I want you to slow down and just be boring for a while. That's no excitement. You've had enough excitement to last you the rest of your life. Just be boring. Thomas.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I paint you a picture, brother?

[Caller or Guest]

All right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The last two plus two and a half years, somebody told you when to get up, when to eat, when you could go outside, what you were going to eat, right?

[Caller or Guest]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When you borrow money, that bank tells you, I don't care how you feel, you're going to work tomorrow because I want my money. You already took my truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you got.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You lost that job. I don't really care you're doing this because. Right. And so what I don't want you to do is walk out of prison and then walk right back in voluntarily. And that's what borrowing money does. Stay free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's good. Good. That's good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Stay free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hang on. I'll send you a copy of the total money makeover and we'll help you as you rebuild your life. And just steady, steady and slow.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Christian, send him building a non anxious life too. I want to give him some tools for walking through the ups and downs that are going to be the next 5, 10, 15 years of his life as he steadies himself and builds a new version of himself from the inside out. We'll send him both of those.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Very good. That's good. I like that. Mike's in Detroit. Hey, Mike, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

You doing good? I think might need a little bit of help.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, how can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

So I got my dream job in September 2023, working for a friend's company. Everything was going swimmingly up till about November 2024, where I had to leave his company and pick up work with a competitor. While I was working for him, I was working to get myself out of university debt, education debt, and get my feet underneath me and be as independent as possible and. And save up money and everything else. Unfortunately, I had a lawsuit that I had to file against that employer and it took everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or the second one.

[Caller or Guest]

Old friend. Old friend.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why you only work for him for a year?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I was working for him on and off for about nine years, kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, but the dream was. The dream lasted a whole year. What was the lawsuit for?

[Caller or Guest]

He did not pay an invoice that I build him for. For work that I performed for him.

[Dave Ramsey]

After you left?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why did you do work for him after you left if you got.

[Caller or Guest]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Before.

Before I was hired on full time,

[Dave Ramsey]

how big was the invoice?

[Caller or Guest]

$8,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I'm sorry. So how. How much were you making working for this guy?

[Caller or Guest]

$65,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so have you been able to replace that income?

[Caller or Guest]

I was working for another company, a competitor of his, but they were only paying half of it now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I think what I'm going to concentrate on is not being angry at him and also this, quote, dream job stuff that never was really a dream and instead be working on the future.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Get out of the grief and get to get, get, get after something. Moving forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, go forward.

[Caller or Guest]

Early.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

Results may vary and no specific outcome is guarantee.

[Dave Ramsey]

When it comes to your money. You ever feel like a rat in a wheel? Run, run, run, run, run, run. Get nowhere, have a heart attack and die. That's my life. No, that's awful. Don't do that. That's gross. No, no, no. If you're tired of working hard and having nothing to show for it, that's normal. But normal's broke. You don't want to be normal. We want to be weird. You don't have to live that way. Our every dollar budgeting app will help you find ext on a personalized plan to get out of debt, become wealthy and outrageously generous. In just 15 minutes, you're going to find thousands of dollars in hidden margin. You're going to feel like you got a raise. Works every time. Boys and girls. Don't be normal. Live like no one else. Start your everydollar app in the App store or Google Play. Portland, Oregon Leslie is calling. Hi Leslie. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

You? Hi. Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

Thank you for taking my call. First off, so my husband and I have three kids and our oldest, she's 16. We share her with his first wife and she's 16.

And

we want to know. Our question is, should we help pay for her driving school?

[Dave Ramsey]

Who's paying for her insurance?

[Caller or Guest]

Mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you paying for driving school gives mom a discount?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why is mom not paying for it.

[Caller or Guest]

So that's kind of where we're at. And we. We also want some advice on how to navigate that conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

How to navigate the X? Yeah, we're not that smart.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I didn't have that class in grad school. That's a tough one.

[Caller or Guest]

Her mom did kind of the shady thing last week. She had our daughter text my husband, say, can we talk? And then when they finally got to talk, she said that they were waiting on us to start driving school. But we are going through our own. We just started the EveryDollar app. Like, we're trying to get debt free. We pay her child support, and, like, I. I just don't know how to navigate this because we've paid for her braces, and we were supposed to go half on that. She never once called and made a payment to the dental office, even though we told her this was the.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me jump in on this, Leslie. Okay. Let me jump in.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to take, like, imagine you're sitting at your kitchen table and you have a shoe box on the table.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Inside that shoe box is the people in your life that get a vote.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Take her out of that box because you're still trying to. Like, she's doing these things, and you're spending a ton of energy trying to get inside her head. And why did she do this? And I bet it's because of this. And then you're making up a bunch of stories about why she did or didn't. And your stories are probably right, but they aren't affecting her one bit. So you're drinking the poison the ex wife hoping the ex wife is. Is feeling pain, and you're the one sick.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so let's just focus on you and the kids. Your husband needs to do the same thing. My ex wife does not get a vote. She does not get a vote in our house. Okay, now what? Our house. What you and your husband sit down and decide to do for his daughter that he loves, regardless if she's married to a woman who's a test pilot for a broom factory. Okay. Regardless of that. All right? So that's a gift. Okay? That's a constant in the equation. So we just set that aside and we go, okay, there's the kid. What do we want to do for the kid? In one case, you said, I'm gonna do braces. She's supposed to pay half, but she probably won't. Cause she never does. But we're gonna pay for them anyway. And that's what you Did. So just let that go. You made that decision, okay? You made that decision. You and your husband made that decision.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Any energy you give ex wife is energy you're taking away from your home, from your marriage, from your relationship with your kids. Don't give her that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's done. So then as far as the driving school goes, you guys look at it and go, how much is it by the way?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The 300 bucks?

[Caller or Guest]

It's 1200.

Oh, jeez.

And yeah, we pay child support. We pay her 275.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't matter.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Doesn't matter.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't matter. None of that matters. That's all set. We don't have to rehash all the things we do. And we paid half the braces and you didn't. None of that matters. All that matters is do we want to do this? That's all that matters. And we can decide that in context of all these other things. But the two of you just sit down, look at that. Do we want to do this? You don't. That's your vote.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's your vote. And your husband, I don't know what's he, you know, he says no too. Okay then. Because the test pilot for a broom factory is teaching her 16 year old to be a travel agent for guilt trips. Daddy, I can't get a driver's license because you won't help. Bull crap. You could get like a job and stuff, kid. Or you could talk to your mother who could pay for it. There's an idea. And so no, we're not able to do that right now. I'm sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I would tell the kid we have reasons for you. We don't think this school is necessary. You're a great driver already. We've been driving with you for a year with your learner's permit. We like or we think you need to have some skin in the game. Somebody else is paying your insurance. Somebody else is buying you a car. Somebody else is paying your gas. We think you should own this one. But. But have the reason be you and your husband looked at this young 16 year old girl in front of you and said, we made this decision for you and here's why.

[Dave Ramsey]

And by the way, if the ex wife was completely out of the picture and she lived in your house 100% of the time and it was your actual kid.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It needs to be the same decision that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Otherwise you're going to end up penalizing this kid trying to get back at X. You're going to become the person that you're frustrated with right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. So, yeah, I think you and your husband just sit down and say, do we want to do this? And if the answer is no, then how can we help? We can coach you, we can cheer you on. But you know, your mom's paying for the insurance and she's the one that's actually going to get the break on the insurance because if you go through driving school, you get less insurance for a 16 year old. So it, it cuts the insurance premium. And so it didn't go. Cut it by 1,200 bucks. Good God.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, here's what's funny. I'm sitting here in real time. 300 bucks is what I paid when I was 16.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so that there were dinosaurs on the road.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly. I know I had to pull a rope to start the car I drove around in. And, and I just realized my wife, when we paid, we paid for my son, he turned 16 soon to go to driving school.

[Caller or Guest]

I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The number in my head, I was like, of course, yeah. I thought it was 300 bucks. I didn't know it was $1200.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now you got to look up and see what you pay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I gotta go see what I just paid for this thing. Yeah, it sounds like it's being taught by a formula one driver, but that just may be what the cost of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's the difference of 300 back then and 1200 now. Yeah, that's how that works.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Blasted inflation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's it. So, yeah, but the thing is, John, the teaching is everyone, you have to stop in the middle of these things and go. Instead of replaying these scenes over and over and over in your head about the braces and everything else and just go. And she, you know, we didn't hear from her and then she texted us and she got the kid to text us and all that really doesn't matter. None of that really matters because the kid doesn't even get a vote. It's me and my wife. We decide and we decide that for our kids when they live at our house, you know, I mean, matter of fact, they don't live at our house now and they still don't get a vote. Yeah, and the grandkids don't get a vote. They get a wish. Sure, they can have a wish.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They can have an opinion.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's different than a vote.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Papa Dave, would you. I might. But I have to think about it

[Dr. John DeLoney]

and I think A sign of great, like sturdy parenting is, is there's seasons when your kids don't like you. That means you're doing it right. If you're, if you're parenting so that your kids always like you, you're going to find yourself in some real dangerous territory. And worse, your kids going to find themselves in some dangerous messes. Like, part of parenting is saying, here's why we're doing this and it's okay. I'm strong enough to withhold your dislike for me right now. It's part of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And in addition to that, if they're teenagers, your job is to also embarrass them frequently.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All of your.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

With all possible energy. Embarrass them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Find some way to give them a ridiculous hug and a kiss at the. In front of all their friends.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

On behalf of mental health practitioners across this great country, embarrass your kids a lot because we need your future business. That's good. My. I. Dave, I. I don't know what to do. My daughter's in fourth grade. I can, can embarrass her by just smiling. My son is seemingly impervious to embarrassment. He has this it's. I wish I could bottle it up and, and sell it because I would be richer than these AI guys. It's amazing. I make a joke and he's just like, I hope that felt good, dad. And I'm the one like, he hit

[Dave Ramsey]

the ball back across.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The other night at the dinner table, I made a crash joke, but it was a good one. And you don't know shay until your 15 year old looks at you without a smile and goes, dad, when are you going to grow up? I was like, oh, man. Well played, son. Well played. And he was right too. That was the worst part.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by why Refi defaulted? Private student loans don't define you, but dealing with them does. Why Refi helps you refinance into a low fixed rate payment that you can afford so you can take control of your money and get back to working the baby steps. Go to yrefi.comramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, this is an awesome question, Dave. Today's question comes from Megan in New Jersey. Megan writes, I was recently in a car accident and my vehicle was totaled. My emergency fund paid for my hospital bill and my parents lent me five grand so I could buy a reliable used car car. Most of my remaining debts are smaller than their loan to me. But I hate owing them money. They've said to pay them back, quote unquote, whenever I can, but I feel terrible whenever I talk to them. I have $25,000 left in student loans and another 5,000 bucks on credit cards. Would it be okay to just pay them first and then resume my debt? Snowball. I like that question because I. In my guts it's out of order from how we teach it, but. But owing my dad money feels worse than owing the irs. You know what I mean? He can't garnish my wages, but man, I get that feeling she has.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I understand. That's. That's an honorable person too.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No kidding.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good. Yeah. So, Megan, we list our debts, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one first. So that would. And you know, I'm guessing you're. You said credit cards and 5,000, so I'm guessing there's lots of little ones or a few little ones that total up to 5,000. So you would knock those out first and then you would knock this out. The good news is that $10,000 from now you're done. Except for student loans. And so that's a really, really aggressive part time job for just a few months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just to like. And channel that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, just channel all of that discomfort. Discomfort right at those credit cards first. Cut them up and then list them and get yourself on a super tight budget like beans and rice. Rice and beans and you know, and then add income and look around. What can I sell? What can I sell? Here's another thing I want to throw out that's not asked here, but it's a $5,000 car. So the answer might be that she didn't have insurance on it. But I want to remind all of you that when you get a. In a car accident and your car is totaled and you have insurance that pays the car, pays for the car, that is not a reason to upgrade, replace it, and go further into debt. So I'm guessing though that maybe she did not have collision on a $5,000 car. And so when it got totaled, it was. Just lost.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just lost the money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I want to add something else that's not in here. And this is coming from a parent who my son's about to turn 16. Like there's a chance this is me, right? I hope not.

[Caller or Guest]

But.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it can feel like you're helping bail out at your kid when you loan them five grand. I would much rather her parents Give her five grand, then create this tension in there. If they feel like they want to help, they want to support their kid or whatever, I would much rather that be a gift. And obviously, who knows what happened here. And there's so many different things, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, so.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But dad participates in making this an awkward relationship too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I'll just jump in on that side of this equation and say from our perspective here, from almost 40 years of doing this, helping people with their money and clean up money messes that they have made, I'll make a bold statement. Parents should never, under any circumstances loan their children money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I second that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Period. As a matter of fact, you should not loan any relatives money money under any circumstances. Period. If you have the money to help them and you want them to have the money, give it to them. If you're not willing to give it to them, shut up. But I want to be paid back after I helped you with your misfortune. And I'm going to feel good about me when you pay me back after I helped you with your misfortune. That's bass ackwards, people. So, no, you know, if you want to help them, help them. If you don't want to help them, don't help them. But don't make them owe you money. Because Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master. And the borrower is slave to the lender.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The interest payment on that is your relationship.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's the interest leaves notches in the belt at a minimum.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. James is in Lynchburg, Virginia. Hi, James. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

How you doing, gentlemen?

[Dave Ramsey]

Great. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

I have an interesting dynamic going on. So we own a small rental home that we are close to having paid off. And it's probably worth about 175 at the current market. We owe about 15,000 left on it on their current home and land that. The land that the current home that we live in is on is. We owe 15,000 left on that. And we cash rolled and self built the home itself. So we don't owe anything on the house. So 12, 15 months or so, we'll be done paying on both of these things.

Now.

I put all eggs in that basket for the last 10 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller or Guest]

All cash we had went into the last that. So with the hope that in the plan that. How old are you at 10 years? I am 44 almost.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Caller or Guest]

So, you know, with that, we wouldn't have to worry about paying for a home ever again because we've been doing long Enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't have done that. But we're there. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, no, no doubt. So I have no appreciable retirement savings, obviously, for putting all those eggs in that basket.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Which is why I wouldn't have done it.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, right, I understand. Obviously that's some level of stressful for me. And, you know, here, soon enough there'll be, you know, wide open rental income that will come in associated with that. We'll have, you know, freedom from the mortgages and things like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does the, what does the house rent for?

[Caller or Guest]

Currently it's at a thousand. I have a. It's. It's valued more, but I have a. I have a widow in there, and I can't charge her any more than we currently are.

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you've got an asset that's not maximized. Okay, that's fair.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

Correct.

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right.

[Caller or Guest]

Correct.

And, you know, I'm looking. I'm just juggling around this. And my wife and I have been kicking it around. Me, mostly me kicking it, mostly her telling me not to do it, of selling it and investing that money then

into

some form of retirement savings. And I wanted some feedback on that instead.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, not, not counting the arrangement, which I. I endorse you helping a widow. Endorse anyone helping a widow. That's biblical. And you're making, you know, about 7% on your money because $175,000. You're making $12,000 minus expenses. So you're probably making probably 5% on your money on this rental house. Plus it's going up in value. It's not a bad investment. And someday you will be able to get full rent out of it whenever she's gone. Okay. Or whenever that arrangement stops for whatever reason. What keeps you from beginning your retirement? Investing now fairly aggressively since you don't have any payments.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I do have payments on the property that, that, that we built on to our current.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe on it?

[Caller or Guest]

15,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but you're gonna be done in just a few months on both of them. You told me, right? Yes, that's what I was calculating. So I'm talking about a few months from now. You're 100% debt free. What's your household income?

[Caller or Guest]

About an 85 to 90.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so start saving 20% of your income into good retirement or 25% of your income into good retirement. You don't even have a stinking house payment.

[Caller or Guest]

And put.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fill up your 401k, fill up some Roth IRAs and get with a good smartvestor pro at Ramsey Solutions. And that account alone will be millions of dollars when you get. When you're 65, 25 years from now.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And keep the houses.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have to give up the house to have a retirement plan. You got plenty of time and you have a good income and you have no debt.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But make space, space, make space in the middle of your chest for this feeling that's going to come. I thought that if I had a house outright and I had a rental house outright, that then me and my wife could just do whatever we wanted with our money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nope.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you have a debt to pay to future you, of course.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you're still going to have to watch your income. You're still going to be putting a sizable chunk away. It's not. It's not going to go to a house payment, but it is going to go to future you. Right. And so expect to feel like, oh, man, I thought we were going to be free of all this budgeting and all. No, man, we still got to stay tight on it because we're going to get 85 or 90 years old one day.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. As the. The same intensity you were using, or maybe not quite as much to clear up these two mortgages, we're just going to turn most of that cash flow and some of that intensity into a retirement Planning system into 401ks and Roth IRAs with your SmartVestor pro. And promise you, dude, that's going to be my millions of dollars that one thing. Al. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds credit union studio. Dr. John DeLoney, bestselling author Ramsey personality, is my co host. Today. Clay is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Hi, Clay. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hi, Dave.

Good.

How about you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, so just kind of really overwhelmed. Don't really know how to attack my debt. A majority of my income is going to rent and a car and it. I need both of those things. I need a place to live and I need a car to drive to work. So. Yeah, just need help getting out of here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. What do you make?

[Caller or Guest]

I make about 2200amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I think we found the problem.

[Caller or Guest]

Problem.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you do?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah,

[Caller or Guest]

so I currently work in construction.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller or Guest]

33.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much do you owe on your car?

[Caller or Guest]

It's a little under 20,000. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much is your rent?

[Caller or Guest]

I did make. Sorry, I did make a little bit more, but a portion of my. My wages are going to some Tax debt and student debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. And how much is your rent?

[Caller or Guest]

750.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

All right.

Currently also dealing with a pest issue that's taking up some more of the income.

[Dave Ramsey]

A pest issue?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's why you rent, brother.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your landlord would be taking care of the pest issue.

[Caller or Guest]

No, says it's on me. But yeah,

[Dr. John DeLoney]

like there's not an easy way to say this. You got to make a lot more money.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do you, what do you do on a construction site?

[Caller or Guest]

So I work in an office. Like a design office. I'm. Yeah, we provide products.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But I mean are you in some sort of apprenticeship that this is all going to double and triple and quadruple in two years, four years or is this kind of it for you?

[Caller or Guest]

This is kind of it. Before that I worked in behavioral health as a, like a tech. Just kind of ran out of options there and looked for another field and construction was kind of up and some good opportunity there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, but the opportunity construction is. Are you a builder? Are you a craftsman? Right, but you're the guy servicing those guys, right?

[Caller or Guest]

Correct.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah,

[Caller or Guest]

I get the projects in the door.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I mean there's several things going on but one of them is that you just have an income problem for sure. And there's two ways to fix that. One is the extra part time job in the meantime while you're developing a career track where you go Instead of making $30,000 a year, you go try to find a way to make 90. And that's very doable in today's world. And it may take you a few, it may take you a hot minute, you may have to go take some classes, you may have to do. You don't have to get a four year degree, but you may have to learn some things you don't know now. But you're going to have to set yourself sites differently than just whatever the next J O B is because you're starving to death. That's thing one. Thing two is if you have a low income, it does not give you a pass on math. And how in the world someone loaned you $20,000 on a car that wasn't smoking crack? I don't know. You don't make enough to have a twenty thousand dollar car that no wonder about. Yeah, you're. You're dying. Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How much could you get for that car if you sold it today?

[Caller or Guest]

So I did a quick like estimate on Carvana and they offered nine Alden.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I bet they did.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Look up Kelly blue book what the private party sale value Is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And that's probably more like 16. Yeah. And then dig up the difference and let's get the car sold. Yes, you need a car to get to work. No, you don't need a $20,000 car to get to work. You just need a. You need a beater, a hooptie that runs and gets you over to work, because you're not driving to a $200,000 a year job. You're driving to a 25,000 or $30,000 a year job, and you're driving a $20,000 car over there.

[Caller or Guest]

There.

[Dave Ramsey]

That doesn't fit in this picture. It shouldn't even be in this picture. We shouldn't be having this discussion. There's no possible way. It's not good for you. It's bad for you. So I'm going to move you out of that car into a hooptie, get you out of debt, and increase your income. And then I'm going to start learning about what my lease actually says about pest control. In most states, the landlord is in charge of pest control, unless the tenant is such a freaking slob that they caused rats to be in the place, in which case you may be in charge of it. So I don't know what we're dealing with, but, Clay, I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's. I want you to reframe this. The way you describe your life as is. As though this is happening to you, and I want you to visualize yourself getting in the driver's seat of your own freaking life and hitting the gas and going forward that way. Way your. Your taxes didn't just not pay themselves.

[Dave Ramsey]

Captain of your own destiny.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it. Your taxes didn't just not pay themselves. Your boss is paying you what you're accepting. You're. You bought a car that, like, I want you to own this thing, and that's the only way you're going to get out of it, because. Because life just keeps happening to me over and over. Get in the driver's seat and say, what do I want this thing to look like in a year? Two years? And let's head that way. A thousand miles an hour, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. The people that get along in this world that we call successful are the ones that leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. They don't sit in the cave and wait on a duck to fly in already cooked. And that's what you're talking about. Dr. Stephen Covey's book is a great one to read, Clay. It's called the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. The number one Habit of the seven, the first one is to be pro. Highly effective. People are proactive. What John's talking about, they happen to things. Things don't happen to them. That's the definition of proactive. And so you know, when in doubt, you bust something, not get busted. When in doubt, we're going to hit something. When in doubt, we're going to be a man of action when in doubt. And we're going to be slow enough that we're wise enough that we don't buy $20,000 car and we make 25,000. We're going to be slow enough and wise enough that we pay our taxes on time. Be slow enough and wise enough that we're reading the lease and. Or not leaving a dump in some guy's landlord's house so that he has a pest problem because you brought it there or you didn't bring it there and he's being a twerp and we need to hold his feet to the fire. Hey, dude. Yeah. The law actually says you fix this. And here's what your lease that you gave me says, says you fix this. I own a bunch of rental houses. We do all the pest control. And I don't have any tenants that create pest problems. If I do, that tenant doesn't stay there because they're tearing up my house is what that means. No, thank you. So, you know, these are proactive things that I do. So that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dave, I just gotta say again, I don't want to toot my own horn here, but I was the dean of students at the law school in Texas. I drove a 3500 truck. And when I got my job here at Belmont Nashville, I drove a 17,000. I really upgraded, man. To 17,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're making a lot more than right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So it's like, listen, man. Like, drive what you can afford. Happen to your life. God, I got to do this. You don't, man. Especially when it comes to a depreciating asset.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. Tax season is upon us. To get free checklists and guides That'll help you file free. Go to ramseysolutions.com taxes Shelly is in Washington, D.C. hi, Shelly. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm doing good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

All right, so I'm. I'm pretty new to watching your show, and so I just really wanted to reach out because me and my husband are in a big mess financial, and we can't seem to get on the same page. I'll kind of run down some numbers for you. It's pretty bad. We have student loan debt. For my student loan debt, 52,000. We have federal tax debt, 12,000. We have a mortgage, 175. And then we have personal loans that total about 30, 331,652. We have credit cards altogether that total 152,168. And then we have business loans that are 199,382 and business credit cards that are about 65,156. So we have a big mess. And it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you have a business that is failing.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, the business has. Has been struggling in the past.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You're not, you're not making money and you've been financing it with all these loans.

[Caller or Guest]

Correct. Having too many people in payroll and not having.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not making a profit for whatever reason. And you've been financing it for how long. How long has it been since you made a profit?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I mean, technically I did make a profit these last two years, but obviously I'm paying loans, so the interest is obviously only part I can deduct. But cash flow, I don't have any cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you've been using. I mean, you didn't use these credit cards, these business loans, these personal loans, these other credit cards, all to finance the purchase of the business. You've been operating it at a loss and feeding it.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes. So from, from my portion, yes. I've been feeding the business with the debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

And all of this debt was created by this business?

[Caller or Guest]

No, no. My, my husband, he took. He had an idea to pull money balance transfers off of his cards and his personal loans to put it in the stock market to invest. So first year he made a lot of money. We had a big tax bill. The second year we had a lot that we owed. And he's never repaid those loans and credit cards that he pulled money off of. So his debt is about 360 of this, which is from him pulling lines of credit and got a business loan and business credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

So does Anybody around their work?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, for a job to make money.

[Caller or Guest]

My. My husband has a W2 job.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does he make?

[Caller or Guest]

About 120 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And what was the profit on your business that you paid taxes on last year?

[Caller or Guest]

57,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you both agree that you'll have a message?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do y' all both agree that you

[Dr. John DeLoney]

want it to go away?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

It's just a method of. So my husband got a bonus for about 12,000. And so since I've been listening to you, I was like, well, we need to snowball, pay these debts, the smaller debts off to free up about $600 a month. He. He. He wants to pay on a personal loan. That's for $40,000. And he wanted to put it towards that to get the balance down. But as soon as he was. We were arguing about it, and then he called him and it went into collections. So now it's in collections because he hasn't been paying it. He didn't have enough money to pay it. So now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the money that he made on the stock trades, he put back into the stock market and lost it?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he was day trading.

[Caller or Guest]

He never paid any of the like.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know he didn't pay the taxes, but also, you said he made a profit that caused taxes. That's where taxes come from. And then that profit, which meant he not only made the money back, so he borrowed 60,000 on a credit card or whatever, and he put it in the market. He got the 60,000 back plus money, didn't pay the taxes, and put all of that back into the market and then lost it.

[Caller or Guest]

So the first year that he did that, which would have been 2020, he did pay our tax bill. It was like 25,000, I think it was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where's the money? Did he lose it or not?

[Caller or Guest]

He had the money, and we paid it in full that year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, the money that he made in the stock market, where did it go? He put it back in the market and lost it, didn't he?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's all I want to know. You don't have any money is what I'm trying to establish.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, that's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

None of the money that was made is there anymore. It's all gone. Okay. Do you own anything other than your home?

[Caller or Guest]

Home, he. His car he doesn't have a loan on. And then I have vehicles I don't have a loan on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so your business doesn't have any assets?

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, it does. Sorry. It does. I have desk computers, tables, laptops.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's what's your gross revenues on the business?

[Caller or Guest]

330 for 25.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How many employees?

[Caller or Guest]

Right now I'm down to one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

I let them go.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do? What's your trade? What's your skill?

[Caller or Guest]

I have a tax and accounting business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Couldn't you make more than 57 working for somebody else?

[Caller or Guest]

I actually did the end of 24, I got a job, a full time job making one. And then I got laid off in June, In August.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you need to go get another one. Yeah, yeah. Because you need the income to be. We need the income to be able to learn. Lean into this. Okay, and then back to your original question. Y' all are arguing about what to pay off first and so forth, not counting your mortgage. You have a long road ahead of you. So the first thing we need to do is establish two principles. Principles before we begin to attack the debt. Principle number one is no more day trading. 97% of day traders over a three year period of time lose money. So no more stupid schemes. Okay. Second principle is businesses that don't make a profit are a bad hobby be. They're not a business if it's not making a solid profit. If you work your full, your new full time accounting job and you can run 57,000 out of this thing on your own as a side hustle in profit and you know the difference in profit and gross, then keep it open. But if you can't make a profit, you do not borrow any more money to keep it open. You close, close it. Okay. You fed this thing enough and he's fed his craziness enough.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I throw a third principle in, Dave? Third principle, Shelley, is. Yeah, for this to work, you're going to need all the like synchronicity and momentum that y' all two can muster together. And so y' all are going to have to decide this is our debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

We both have done some dumb things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We've both done this and we're both going to attack this stuff together. You, you will never conque this thing if he's responsible for paying off his and you try to pay off yours.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. Then pull the mortgage out of the equation, list all of these debts individually, smallest to largest, and begin to pay them in that order after the $12,000 tax bill is paid. $12,000 tax bill is the first thing and that should have been paid out of his bonus or if he's got that $40,000 bonus laying there, pay the IRS. You do not want the IRS. I mean, you're in tax and accounting, you know this. You don't want to owe the IRS money. It's not only expensive, but they have ridiculous power to screw up your life. List your debts, smallest to largest. Now if he's making 120, you're making 110, you're making another 50. We're up in the 2,300 thousand dollar range. Now we're living on nothing. And we begin to attack this. Probably gonna take you four or five years to clean up this mess, but it took you six or eight to make the message. Sam. Foreign.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Dave is in Pittsburgh. Hey Dave, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm doing good. Thank you for taking the call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

So I'm a huge fan with you guys, have been watching for five years. I just want to say you guys are doing absolutely miracle work. So the question is right now me, my wife, I think about relocating and we are thinking about having a kid as well within one year to a year and a half. So our planning definitely want to buy a house to build a good memories for future kids so they have a good memory and kind of build good foundation with that. And so my question is we either want to do 15% of 15 years fixed mortgage or 30 years fixed mortgage or we're thinking about paying cash. I know your answer. Probably it's going to be around the 15 years fixed mortgage or paying cash. However, the problem is we're afraid we're not going to have enough cash flow because that my wife is planning to not work and taking care of the kids and that I will be having the only single income that we will have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you don't have the cash.

[Caller or Guest]

So right now we have my salary 70k and she's doing 55k. We net around.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have the money in a pile to pay cash for the house? That's not really an option, is it?

[Caller or Guest]

There is, there is. So right now, you're going to be very happy to hear this. I graduated my grad school and I did paid off all my student loan debt with around 100k and then we both net around 1.2 million. It just invested in the mutual fund ETF, bonds and stocks.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you have a million dollars in mutual funds and bonds and stocks?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, that's approximately right. Yeah. Depending on the value.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Lead with that next time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So way to go. So no, I would not borrow money when I have a million dollars in investments. I would just take some of that and buy me a house. Some simple.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know what, Dave, because you have a million dollars,

[Dave Ramsey]

so how expensive a home are you thinking about buying, sir?

[Caller or Guest]

So we're looking at 350 to 380k.

[Dave Ramsey]

Perfect. So 350 leaves you 650 in investments. You have no house payment. There's no strain on your budget. Your wife can stay home with the babies. Mm, that's awesome.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you not do that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, help us out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you not automatically do that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Pitch us on why they. This is a scary ideal, right?

[Caller or Guest]

I think I'm just running the two scenario that usually the market return 10%, but however, you know, when you pay down a house, you're going to guarantee return back 3.5% on the real estate. And also you have to avoid paying this.

[Dave Ramsey]

But your wife has to work,

[Caller or Guest]

right? And her plan is to not work

[Dave Ramsey]

once you missed the point. You just took out a house payment and put her in a job for your little investment scheme that you think is real. But you left out the fact that you're taking on risk and the peace that when your head hits the pillow, it goes to sleep. When you have no payments, you make different decisions than when you have a house payment. So don't do that to your family. You have worked very hard and done a very good job saving money. Use that money to buy a house. Or don't buy a house house, be a renter.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I mean, are you. What do you. Do you own a home now?

[Caller or Guest]

So right now we are renting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

We're waiting. We were waiting for.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is your income, Dave?

[Caller or Guest]

So I do 70k a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does she make?

[Caller or Guest]

55.

She do.

[Dave Ramsey]

How did you get a million two with that income?

[Caller or Guest]

I think there was. I got lucky with some of the investment. Also fortunate unfortunate because we got some inheritance. Inheritance.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much inheritance did you get?

[Caller or Guest]

She roughly got around 200 to 300 and kind of grew. And then I got around 300, 400 and kind of grooming. The both kind of get around one male.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, there it is. All right, so whoever, whoever passed away and left you all this money, bought you your first home and that's their blessing to you and you pay cash for it and that's what you're to going to do. If you're smart, there's no way you need to be playing around with all this stuff. Emily's in Denver. Hi, Emily. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Good.

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey. So I've carried most of the financial responsibility in my marriage, the almost like past six years. My husband says he wants the same financial goals, but he feels the need to constantly spend, doesn't follow through and won't take accountability. He also has a history of addiction and he recently racked up, as of what I know, at least 6,500 in credit card debt on things like 711 and use money I gave him for money that I saved for a trip on his own personal spending and then added me as an authorized user to a credit card that I didn't agree to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is he using again, Emily?

[Caller or Guest]

Is he what?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is he using again?

[Caller or Guest]

I don't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, you know. What do you think?

[Caller or Guest]

I don't.

I, I think his behavior doesn't line up, but I can't prove anything if,

[Dr. John DeLoney]

if behavior is a language. What's he telling you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Says he's using.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, he's back.

[Caller or Guest]

But he's back.

He doesn't want me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, no. Well, he, he, he, he wants the addiction. He's in the addiction.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. An addict can have no access to. Of money. None.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And somebody in recovery knows that. Somebody who's back to using again and you've been down this road with him before, are world class manipulators, world class distorters of reality. And they make you feel like you're crazy, right?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

Yeah.

Very much so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So here's the deal. You're going to get. If, if I'm you, you sit down with him and say, okay, we're going to get you back into real rehab and get you back in some help. And you're relinquishing all control of all money until you've been dry for two years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you need to put a freeze on your credit report the second you hang up this phone call. And that way nobody else can add you to any more debt.

[Caller or Guest]

How do I do that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Freeze it. You can go, go on the line, go online, and you can freeze your credit report. It's very easy to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it will do it across all three of the credit credit reporting bureaus.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but this is hardcore, kiddo. The only chance he has is and the only chance your marriage has is for him to stop using. And the first step is a complete confrontation and he gets into a program. If he's not willing to get into a program, there's nothing you can do to save your marriage or your money. You have to get away from him as fast as you can. Because 100% of addicts burn down their world. 100% of them are broke. Until they get some healing, until they get the other side of the addiction and get some sobriety, they all of them, regardless of what they're addicted to, whether it's sports betting or whether it's pornography or Whether it's heroin, 100% of them burn their world down. We work with them every day because we are there while their finances are burning. Because you just light money on fire. When you're addicted to something, just burn it right there in the middle of the kitchen table. And this guy's doing it. All the symptoms are there, aren't they?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know, I know you don't want it to be true. We don't want it to be true either. But we also don't want you your don't want it to be true thing to allow you to walk around and act like it's not happening. It's happening.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. It drives me crazy because I can't prove it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't have to prove it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We've got all the signs in front of us. And by the way, if he's not you using, let's go one step darker.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where's he doing with the money?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He absolutely doesn't care about your marriage, about how you feel, your safety at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because he's going crazy with his stuff.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So if he's.

[Caller or Guest]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If he's not using, then, man, he's got some.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's got some other issues.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Some character. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Not even worse, but. Or worse or as bad in a different way. Maybe it's a better way to say I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're going to need to get yourself your own checking account and get on your online bills. I'm sure you already have this, but where you're paying that, you got electricity and light and like, you're going to take ownership of this for a season.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have to take over everything. You have to take your name off his name off of everything. He cannot have access to money. Unless you hand him cash.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I hate this for you kid.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's so he can put gas in his car with cash. Which means he puts gas in the tank and walks into the store and pays for for it and walks back out to the car like we used to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I did that recently. They took it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. It's amazing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It was awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

That little walk changes your what you pay for gas.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, good folks. Dr. John Deloney here. Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do do it. So guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing and creative roles. Check out all our job [e-mail] careers that's ramseysolutions.com careers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day. Matthew 6:26. Look at the birds of the air. They do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Earl Wilson said, money in the bank is like toothpaste in the tube. Easy to take out, hard to put back.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty cute. Mary is in Minneapolis. Hi Mary. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm good. Thank you Dave, for taking my call.

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I have a little bit of a dilemma. I became a widow four years ago

[Dave Ramsey]

at the age of 38.

[Caller or Guest]

Wow, man.

And my husband was a farmer. He was 51 and he left me

with quite a bit of assets.

He left me with farmland and of course, our home and then a million dollar life insurance policy on top of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man wow.

[Caller or Guest]

Debt against the farmland.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, there's debt against the farmland? Yes. How much?

[Caller or Guest]

Close to 2 million. It's about 1.8.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's the farmland worth?

[Caller or Guest]

Around 6 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what does the last four years look like?

[Caller or Guest]

I continued to run the farm for three years. I had a farmhand that my husband trusted. He worked with him for a very long time. And he took over the farm, I took over the business and we ran it for three years. Years successfully. We did. We did very well. And then he bought the farm from me a year ago. 2025. January 2025. So I sold the farm. I didn't sell any of the farm land, but I sold the farm site and the equipment to him.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, what is the difference in a Farmland. And a farm site?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, the farm site has the shop, the.

There's a home on it, there's hog barns, and then it's just where. It's just the home base for the farm. And then the farmland is what they grow the crops in.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you own the land still?

[Caller or Guest]

I own the land, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have the debt still, And

[Caller or Guest]

I still have some debt against the land, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so where are we? Where are we today and how can I help?

[Caller or Guest]

So I'm looking at trying to pay down some of this debt with the life insurance proceeds. I have about 1.1 million in, in cash. It's in an investment portfolio. But I wanted to pay down some of these smaller debts, and I just was wondering if this is the right thing to do with this money.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are the smaller debts?

[Caller or Guest]

The smaller ones? So there's one land mortgage for 40,000. My home mortgage is 85,000. And then there's an SBA loan for 125,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right. Is there a business separate from the actual farm operation?

[Caller or Guest]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So the SBA loan is associated with the farm?

[Caller or Guest]

It is, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, now when you sold the other piece of ground the other day to your farmhand, what did it sell for and where is that money?

[Caller or Guest]

It sold for 800,000. And that is a contract for deed with him. So that's where my monthly, my income comes from is that contract for deed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so he's paying you how much a month?

[Caller or Guest]

72,000 or 7,200.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sorry. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is he also leasing the land from you that he farms?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, he's also leasing the land and there's a 10 year lease on it. So he will be farm. It's 500 acres. He'll be farming it for the next 500 or 10 years. And that brings in about 120,000 acres year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But he also put himself in kind of a pickle because if you sell this land or if in 10 years you want to do something else, he's bought this farm equipment, but he won't have anything to farm.

[Caller or Guest]

Right, Right.

He farms, he farms around 2,000 acres. So he has some contracts with other farm landowners.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the balance on the farmland is now down to what?

[Caller or Guest]

The balance on the farmland. Let's see. So I have 1.1 million in one piece of land, and. And then there's 383,000 in another piece, and then the smaller one is just 40,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got you. Okay. All right. Okay. So I think I've got the picture right. If I do what I would do is to do what you're suggesting. I'd take 250,000 of your million and pay off the SBA and the 85 and the 40. Right. And then you're 100% debt free except for the two land mortgage. And you have an income of 7200 which you can easily live on.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And 100% of the profits from the farm go to reduce debt at the farm.

[Caller or Guest]

The land, yes, yes.

So the, the profits coming from the land, the land rent is covering the payments for the.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, not just the payments. You're making more than, than that.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

In a, in a given crop year, on the acreage, your portion, when he farms it on your behalf, your portion is how much was 300 grand, wasn't it? Or 150 grand?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes. 120.

[Dave Ramsey]

120. Okay. And you have 300,000 on the small mortgage and a million on the other mortgage. So in two years the small mortgage is gone because you can put that whole hundred and twenty on it.

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, okay.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then we're going to do the same thing until we get rid of that whole million. And so by the time his lease is up, his 10 year lease is up. Before it's up, this farmland is going to be free and clear. Yes. And then you're sitting on a 15 or 20 million dollars net worth at that point.

[Caller or Guest]

Correct.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because the value of the land will have gone up, plus your investments will have gone up because you got 650 invested that you're not touching either.

[Caller or Guest]

Either.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you're living off the 7,200 from the land contract on when you sold him the property. Did I get that right? You did, yes.

[Jenny]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Yep, that sounds, that sounds about right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Mary, can I throw an alternative reality at you?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I, I spent a big chunk of my life out in West Texas where there's cotton farmers and cattle farmers. The, the conversations I had with those, especially those older men in the, the thing that I felt at the end of the day was giving them their coronary challenges was the debt on their farms. It took one bad year to start a debt cycle that they could really never ever get out of. Is there any part of you that wants to sell this thing for $6 million and be done with it and

[Dave Ramsey]

go have a different, different life?

[Caller or Guest]

There is not.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Caller or Guest]

I, I, I'm, I'm not opposed to selling maybe 100 of the acres down the road. If I, if I run into that issue, I don't think I will. But I don't want to sell the land, I want to hold onto it.

It was.

It's family land. It's my husband's family land. And some of it was passed down. He actually bought 200 of the acres. Right. Like a year before he passed away. And that's where that 1.1 million cameras.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm more nervous about this than you are, so I'll keep that to myself. But just. Man, just watching those farmers.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're getting rid of all the little mosquito debts right now. And then we've just got two big ones to knock, and the smaller one of those will be gone in two more years. So pretty quickly, we're down to. And the land goes up in value. So we got an 8 million. Two years from now, we have an $8 million piece of ground with a $900,000 land.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that. That doesn't scare me as much because then we're whittling away at it. Whittling away at it. And you love it, and you're comfortable and. And you've settled into this with a great rhythm. I'm very proud of you. Yeah. I mean, you really threw. You know, you really stepped into this, kiddo. Well done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And what's your husband's name? Your ex. I mean, your husband who passed away?

[Caller or Guest]

Kevin.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Kevin. Pretty awesome guy.

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, my gosh.

He was amazing.

Yes.

He was an amazing farmer, an amazing husband, a great dad. Yeah, he was.

He was.

He was a great, great guy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I just always want to take a moment and a. Honor somebody by saying their name who passed away. But I also want to honor a husband who gave his wife the privilege of. You got to grieve for as long as you wanted to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Million dollar life insurance policy and a business that was right side up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You got to be sad for a season, not worry about where your next meal is going to come from. And that's noble and honorable and. And good for Kevin, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he's a good man. He took care of his wife, and she took care of business afterwards. Pretty incredible, the dynamic duo there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Very cool. Congratulations, Mary. We're proud of you. Very cool. Thanks for giving us the honor of talking that through with you. Pretty crazy. So.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just always be looking for a way where the end of the story is, I got zero debt because that always leads me to more wealth and more peace. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, time, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.