Don't Let Fear Drive Your Financial Decisions

Summary

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The Ramsey Show — "Don't Let Fear Drive Your Financial Decisions"

Date: April 7, 2026
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: Jade Washall Ramsey
Main Theme:
This episode focuses on overcoming fear-based money decisions, breaking down how to find peace, confidence, and partnership with your finances—no matter your circumstances. Throughout, Dave and Jade take live calls, offering practical advice rooted in the “Baby Steps” and emphasizing the importance of planning, intentionality, and contentment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Retirement Anxiety & Starting Late

(00:44 – 08:25)

• Caller Jason (41, Spokane):
  • Has $0 saved for retirement, $0 non-mortgage debt, $3,000 savings, lives off-grid with a paid home, family income currently $1–2K/month (from online business) but is job hunting, expecting $60K–$80K salary soon.
• Advice:
  • Complete Emergency Fund: Target $7K–$10K.
  • Baby Step 4+: Once employed, start investing 15% of gross income ($15K/year recommended) into Roth IRAs and mutual funds—diversified among growth, growth & income, aggressive growth, international funds.
  • Contentment as a Wealth Indicator:
    • "You're used to living in the land of contentment in a culture that can't spell the word." — Dave (06:05)
  • Projection: Starting at 41, consistent investment can lead to $2M+ by retirement.
  • Tools: Use the Ramsey Retirement Calculator for personalized forecasts.

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2. Spousal Misalignment & “Side” Funds

(10:48 – 20:14)

• Caller Sherry (Richmond, VA):
  • Saved $9,400 in "flush fund" from overtime, wants to use it for vacation or child’s college tuition, but her husband prefers putting it toward generational wealth.
• Advice:
  • Unity is Key:
    • "Our money is our money... one checking account. All the money goes in one pile." — Dave (14:31)
  • Budgeting as a Team:
    • Assign priorities together; separate pools foster suspicion and division, especially in blended families.
  • Value of Each Spouse:
    • "God sent you to him, so he learns to have fun. God sent him to you so you retire with dignity." — Dave (18:47)
  • Practical: Include vacation, college, and retirement as dedicated budget line items.

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3. Self-Insurance and Letting Go of Financial “Warrior Mode”

(22:32 – 30:23)

• Caller Ray (Nashville):
  • Retired Navy pilot with $2.5M net worth (including $1M cash), questioning the need for continued life insurance.
• Advice:
  • No More Insurance Needed: His investments now “self-insure.”
  • Psychology of Scarcity:
    • "Lay the sword down. You won. Battle’s over." — Dave (28:59)
  • Takeaway: At true financial independence, continuing to save out of fear isn't productive.

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4. Sustainable Living on Low Income

(33:08 – 42:26)

• Caller Sally (Hartford, CT):
  • Low-income disabled, high rent, draws down savings ($80K) to survive, has minor credit card debt.
• Advice:
  • Cutting Expenses & Increasing Income:
    • "The plan you're on sucks. We need a new one." — Dave (37:42)
    • Reduce rent, brainstorm side hustles for $1K+ monthly.
  • Community Matters:
    • Seek church and social circles for support and practical opportunities.
  • **Pay off credit card with savings once budget is sustainable.

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5. Combining Finances Before Marriage: Facing Fear

(44:07 – 52:15)

• Caller Christine (Cleveland, OH):
  • Wants to unify finances with fiancé, but has anxiety about losing independence or potential vulnerability.
• Advice:
  • Communication & Transparency:
    • "I want both our votes to count… two is better than one." — Dave (50:13)
  • Practical Premarital Conversations:
    • Discuss money attitudes, debt, saving, risk, "equal votes," and long-term scenarios before marrying.

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6. Post-Baby Steps: Cash Management & Next Moves

(55:01 – 63:24)

• Caller Brian (L.A.):
  • Healthcare business owner, $350K liquid, $900K mortgage, seeks advice “what’s next?”
• Advice:
  • Don’t Listen to the Bank:
    • "Last thing you want to do is listen to Chase… for anything." — Dave (58:21)
  • Pay Down Mortgage: Use a portion of liquid cash.
  • Invest in Mutual Funds, 401(k), and Roth IRAs: Rely on a trusted, teaching-oriented financial advisor.
  • Understanding Opportunity Cost:
    • Keeping large cash idle loses out on potential investment growth.

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7. Pushing Through Burnout in Grad School

(65:27 – 73:28)

• Caller Nicole (Tulsa):
  • Working full-time, tight budget finishing doctorate in ministry/counseling.
• Advice:
  • Monetize Hard Work:
    • Don’t undercharge your skills just because “ministry” is in your job description.
  • Visualize the Finish:
    • Mark milestones, track progress, enlist peer support to stay motivated.
  • Side Hustle for Margin: Consider enjoyable part-time work for financial breathing room.

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8. College Savings, Retirement, and the Power of Work

(75:53 – 85:28)

• Caller Rachel (Louisiana, email):
  • Hesitant to cut retirement for 5 kids’ college funding.
• Advice:
  • Don’t Lower Retirement Contributions: Math rarely works; prioritize affordable colleges, community college, scholarships, and student work.
    • "No one cares where you went to school." — Dave (80:16)
  • Watch 'Borrowed Future': For family awareness about college debt traps.

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9. Stay-at-Home Parenting and Wealth Building

(85:28 – 94:00)

• Caller Sydney (Augusta, GA):
  • Stay-at-home mom worried about “not pulling her weight” as husband pays down debt.
• Advice:
  • Your Contribution is Valuable:
    • "You're raising the next Billy Graham and you just 'take care of your kids'?!" — Dave (90:03)
  • Home Court Advantage:
    • Stay-at-home work has economic and emotional value.

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10. RV Purchases, Prioritizing Pay-Off, and Patience

(96:45 – 100:12)

• Caller Troy (Toledo):
  • Wants to purchase $200K–$300K RV before mortgage is paid off; wife says pay off house first.
• Advice:
  • Don’t Finance Toys:
    • "Do not finance stuff… She wins the argument." — Dave (100:05)
  • Use current RV, rent, or wait until mortgage is gone for an upgrade.

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11. Danger of Pre-paying for Expensive Funerals

(117:10 – 125:55)

• Caller Jeff (Austin, TX):
  • Mother with no assets wants a $25K pre-paid funeral.
• Advice:
  • Do Not Prepay:
    • "Never prepay a funeral. Pre-plan, but never prepay." — Dave (121:22)
  • Keep funeral cost appropriate—average is $7–8K. Sell her house post-passing if needed.

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12. Featured Success Story: The Debt-Free Millionaire Journey

(105:50 – 114:41)

• Patrick & Tiffany (Rock Springs, WY):
  • Paid off $506,700 in 93 months; now 100% debt-free, $650K home, $525K retirement, both age 40, household income now $300K.
• Lessons & Quotes:
  • Explains power of the Baby Steps, unity, and focus:
    • "You just gotta get mad enough and you'll change. What you focus on is what you win at." — Patrick (113:32)
  • Survived personal heartbreak (losing their son), attributes financial plan as an anchor.
  • Celebrated at Legoland: "We told our daughter once we hit this milestone, she could pick her own vacation." — Tiffany (112:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Contentment:
  "You're used to living in the land of contentment in a culture that can't spell the word." — Dave (06:05)
• On Marital Unity:
  "All the money goes in one pile. We decide together before the month begins where all the money is going to go." — Dave (14:31)
• On Closing Wealth Fears:
  "Lay the sword down. You won. The battle's over." — Dave (28:59)
• On Stay-at-Home Parents:
  "You're raising the next Billy Graham and you just 'take care of your kids'?!" — Dave (90:03)
• On College:
  "No one cares where you went to school. If someone is hiring based on where you went to school, you don't want to work for those people." — Dave (80:15)
• On Prepaid Funerals:
  "Never prepay a funeral. Pre-plan your funeral, that's wonderful. But do not write a check." — Dave (121:22)
• On Transformation:
  "I can't believe what this has done for us… I never thought in a million years I'd be in this financial position." — Patrick (109:14)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Retirement Anxiety Case Study: 00:44 – 08:25
• Financial Unity in Marriage: 10:48 – 20:14
• Letting Go of Fear After Wealth: 22:32 – 30:23
• Low-Income Survival Plan: 33:08 – 42:26
• Premarital Financial Conversations: 44:07 – 52:15
• Investing Cash & Next Moves: 55:01 – 63:24
• Motivation in Tough Seasons: 65:27 – 73:28
• College, Retirement, & Student Loans: 75:53 – 85:28
• Stay-at-Home Value: 85:28 – 94:00
• RVs vs. Mortgage Payoff: 96:45 – 100:12
• Funeral Planning Reality Check: 117:10 – 125:55
• Debt-Free Millionaire Story: 105:50 – 114:41

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Key Takeaways

• Don’t let fear, scarcity, or anxiety dictate financial decisions.
• Unify with your spouse on all money, no matter your background.
• Contentment and long-term planning, not quick fixes or status symbols, build true wealth.
• Don’t prepay for life events (like funerals); plan, but don’t hand over cash.
• Your real value to your family and future is in intentionality, unity, and following tried-and-true steps—not what Instagram, culture, or high-pressure salesmen say.

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For more personalized tools and advice, visit ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washall Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host today. Open phones at 882-55225. Jason is in Spokane, Washington. Hi Jason, how are you?

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I'm doing well.

[Caller]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I'm 41 years old and I'm married and have a family and I have zero dollars for retirement and I am looking for some guidance on how I might approach resolving that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Okay, cool. How much debt do you have, not counting your home?

[Caller]

$0.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, great.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Well, that's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much do you have in savings?

[Caller]

A little north of 3,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay, good start.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good deal.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

So we teach something here called the baby steps. Are you familiar with that?

[Caller]

I am.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay, great. So then you know that you're really a third of the way in and you're really at almost at the point where it's time to start investing. So just as a recap for those who don't know, baby step one is you get $1,000 saved. It's a cushion between you and life. After that, you pay off all of your consumer debt, which is basically everything except the house. You've done that. And then after that we save up three to six months of expenses. So you've got 3,000 saved. How much would you need to add to that in order to get it to about three to six months of basic expenses?

[Caller]

Well, believe it or not, that's actually right around three to six months of expenses for us.

[Dave Ramsey]

$1,000 a month you live on.

[Caller]

I know, I know. We're actually in a kind of a unique situation. We do own a home, but it's paid off. And we also have a small. Me and my wife and I have a small online retail business that kind of floats us. And so actually personally, right now I'm.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, not if you had. Not if you lost your job. That's not the point. The point is, what's it take to operate your household a month? It takes more than $1,000 to do that.

[Caller]

So right now we're $800 a month. $800 a month.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That, that runs everything without any.

[Dave Ramsey]

But after you buy food, how much do you need?

[Caller]

Yes. So we live completely off grid. We own some acreage and I build a House. We have no utility bill, we have no water bill, we have no garbage bill. Basically just have to pay for, we have to pay for food. So you're like we're on solar.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what is your household income?

[Caller]

We vary between 1 and 2000amonth that we have.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

So why are you so worried?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, one and $2,000 a month is your income.

[Caller]

Well, that's just from the business.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, honey, I asked your household income.

[Caller]

That's our household income.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, so the only income you have is this business?

[Caller]

Well, what I'm saying is that I'm actually have been employed. I had a great job that I did for over a decade and ended that job to pursue the dream of building this off grid property with me and my family. And so I spent the last 18 months so I spent the last 18 months building this property while the business floated us. And now I am job searching. So I actually have several job offers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what will you be making when you land the new job?

[Caller]

The jobs I'm looking at are between 60 and 80,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Perfect, thank you. Okay, good. That gets us where I need to be now. So. And you're making about 24,000 or so on the business. So you're going to make 100,000 give or take with the two combined. And you have zero bills because you are completely off the grid. Wow, look at you. Okay, I'm going to raise the 3,000 up just because it's just weird. Okay, it's wonderful that you've done that. But you know, you ought to have 5 or 10,000 set aside and just liquid cash because the purpose is not just to cover monthly expenses. The measure is monthly expenses on how to build it. But if your car transmission goes out or one of your solar panels fails or whatever it is, whatever happens in your world, the pump in the well goes out, you're going to end up needing more than three grand. So let's set the target. As soon as you get employed, let's raise the three up to seven to ten somewhere in there. And that's still fairly low, way low on average. But for you it should be sufficient. Very interesting situation. Now having done all that, that gets you to what we call baby step four. However, your house is paid off. So technically you're at baby step seven. Okay. So you should put 15% of your household income or more towards retirement when you get there. If you do that in good growth stock mutual funds. And we suggest, and Jade has done it, Jade and Sam, Dave and Sharon. This is how we do it. We put across four types of mutual funds. Growth, growth and income, Aggressive growth and international. And so if you start saving $15,000 a year in a couple of Roth IRAs in Good Mutual funds and you do that or more between 41 and 71, you'll have several million dollars.

[Caller]

Oh, wow. Like, not what I expected to hear.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like three or four probably. Okay. And so you got plenty of time. And the good news is it's very easy for you guys to do because you're used to living in the land of contentment in a culture that can't spell the word. So you're very content people. And one of the indicators of the ability to build wealth is the ability to be content and not need every stinking thing that Instagram pops up, which is not you. You're the other end of that spectrum.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I agree. And, and let's fill in those baby steps for anybody who is listening. So we left off on baby step three. He saved up the around 10,000 that Dave suggests. Then baby step four, five and six you do together. And he really already had them done. Baby step four is, like Dave said, investing 15% of your gross income. We would suggest doing that every month. Most people, not this particular individual, not Jason, but a lot of us have employer sponsored accounts. We can throw that money right into a 401k, 403b, whatever have you, tsp, whatever. And then beyond that, you can do baby step five, which is add to your kid's child's, you know, your child's college fund. That can be a 529 and ESA. I don't even care if you put it in a brokerage, just put something aside for them. We don't give a designated amount. It's up to you, your budget and what you think will look like the higher education for your child. And then beyond that, yeah, we're paying off the house intentionally. Again, not a specific amount, but this is something you're being intentional about. It's always a part of your budget. Most people who pay off their house early day of walking are plan are doing that. And somewhere between the 7 to 10 year mark. Is that about right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. And then average.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

And then from there, yeah, your baby step seven, this is where Jason was living like no one else. Giving like no one else. And I can't stress this enough, Dave, this is the time you live like no one else. You give like no one else. Three things you do with your money. Give, save it and spend it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Enjoy it. Enjoy some of it. Yeah. But so if you save 1250 bucks a month, which is 15,000 a year, and you never get a raise from 41 to 71 or from 41 to 67, you'll have 2.2 million. That would be on average stock market returns. That's where you would end up. And so I was right. I just put it in. I put it in the calculator. There's a retirement calculator. Any of you can do [e-mail] and jump on there and run the retirement calculator and figure out, you know, different scenarios. What would you have based on what you have now, how much time you have, what you think returns are going to be? I put in 11%. The S&P is average 11.8% since it began, which is a standard and poor index on the stock market.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I think playing with an investment calculator

[Dave Ramsey]

is probably one of the most motivating.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yes, it's so motivating.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like that $1,250 car payment just cost you 2 million bucks. Step on, Dave. We got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work, so it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years, and so has my family. So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income. Protect your family. Sherry is in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Sherry. How are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good. How can we help?

[Caller]

So my question is what to do with my flush fund? So I was speaking to my husband probably like eight months ago, and I was like, hey, how do you feel? Because we have all these Ramsey envelopes, and we have a vacation fund, but it's used for something else. It's kind of like a vacation. But I was like, hey, what if.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, you don't use your vacation fund for vacations?

[Caller]

We do, but it's like sports trips and stuff for, like, for the kids. Okay, that's kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we declare travel sports to be vacations.

[Caller]

Okay, well, okay. So I went to him and I was like, hey, he knew I always liked vacations and taking my kids on vacations either to the beach once a year or planning a big trip every two years and saving for it. So I was like, what do you think about me making this flush fun? He's like, so just to do what you want with it? And I was like, sure. So eight months later, I've got about 9,400 in there, and all from working overtime. It's not for my salary. It doesn't take away from the family whatsoever. And I was like, hey, I want to. I think this is more than enough for all seven of us, but I think I can take us on a pretty good vacation. He's like, yeah, we don't need vacations. Okay. So I sat on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why do we not need vacations?

[Caller]

Well, because he wants to create generational wealth, and that's giving the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but I thought we already had a budget that included saving for generational wealth.

[Caller]

Well, that's like retirement.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's generational wealth.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Are you doing the things. One of the. One of the indicators of being able to spend on extravagant vacations is that you're doing the other things that make you a financially responsible adult. Right. So if you're already in. If you're already out of debt, Right. You're already a person who budgets. You're already a person who's saving for the future through things like investing your 15% by having that. That fully funded emergency fund. If you're doing those types of behaviors, you have, you know, life insurance. You're generous, all those things. Yes. You can turn around and take a 95 or $9,400 trip, but if you're not doing those things, you do need to go back and reassess. So why is it that your husband is saying no? Why do you think he's saying no to this?

[Caller]

He wants to put it back into kind of the what we have going on with both of our salaries. He wants to include it. I'm like, no, it's not included. It's overtime, so it doesn't take away from anything. But then I sat on it for a couple of days and I'm like, you know what? I think I want to help my son out with college more.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Now, here's the problem. I'm going to point to the problem. The problem is you guys aren't aligned and you aren't using our money as our money. You're doing something over here. Then there's money over here that's allotted for something, but it's not really being used for that. Then there's money over here that he has a plan for. I think what will really help you guys is getting aligned and saying, first off, our money is our money, and it's going in one big pool. It's in one checking account. And with this money, here are the things that we've decided our priorities. Right? So if thing one is to his point, yes, let's make sure we're putting the right amounts for retirement, which is wealth building, generational wealth, whatever you want to call it. Right. That money's going there, and that's been earmarked for that. Then after that, you guys can also say, look, there's money left. We've. We've covered our 15%. There's more money. What do we want to do with that? Do we want to take a vacation? Maybe the answer is yes, we put a little money there. Does that make sense?

[Caller]

Yeah. And we have all of that going on.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you don't.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Otherwise you wouldn't have called.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you don't. You have your own little world over here that you created with overtime. And then you're pissed because he wants to reach into it. You're not doing what she said. What she said is all the money goes in one pile. We decide together before the month begins where all the money is going to go. His, yours, ours, overtime, nobody. And if you have a slush fund, it's because there's a line item in that budget that says, we're setting aside a Certain amount for Sherry's slush fund, which is perfectly fine to do. And by the way, it's perfectly fine to put $9,000 aside and go on a vacation in that budget. But not having this little side world over here that we have, that's a fantasy world based on your overtime. And then we get to just fight over what we do with that later. That fight should have occurred when that money was in the pile with all the other money. And we say, all right, are we putting enough aside for kids college? Are we putting enough aside retirement? Are we putting enough aside for a vacation? And you ought to be doing all three of those.

[Caller]

Right. So I think the bigger issue was when I went back and said, okay, I've thought about it. I want to help my son with more with college, because throughout the years, I haven't made as much money, and I've saved as much as I could, but it hasn't been a lot. And so he's like, yeah, let's put. What number do you have? So I gave him a number, and I was like, well, it's not going to be enough. I want to put my overtime there to help my son so he's not coming out in so much debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I don't want you to. I want you to quit treating your overhead overtime separately. This is the third time we've said this. It's not a separate issue.

[Caller]

Like, I called. I wanted. I wanted a different perspective.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's part of the overall pile of money in the household. And if we. Your income and his income, plus or minus overtime, is not enough to fund the kids college, we have a different issue.

[Caller]

Mm.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

You guys have a blended family.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay. So I think that's part of the. I think that's where the separation is coming in. You're thinking, this is my son from a previous time. I can put money on the side to deal with that issue. And I think you just have to view this. Again, one pile of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want to view that boy as his. Cause he married you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like the two of you, when he married you, he took on the responsibility of loving you well, which includes loving him well.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I want him to look at that. Regardless of what you have made or what his income is versus your income. All one big pile of money to live our life. Our life is. I have a son that was with me when we got married. And you said, for better or for worse, and it includes him. And, you know, we are doing this together. We are loving this kid. Well, we are going to Send this kid to school. We are going to save for retirement and have generational wealth. I agree with that. It's a great goal. We are going to go on a nice vacation. I agree with that. It's a great goal. So all of the goals are fine. The process you're using is what's causing your disagreement. Because you're still trying to run around over here, not making as much as him, but going ahead and pouring on the hours to take care of your son from a previous marriage because he isn't or you don't feel like he should have to. I disagree. I think he should have to. When he married you, he married that kid. And this is. You better love them both. Better love them all just alike. Treat them all just alike. That's how the Brady Bunch operated. That's why they stayed in their little squares. And so, you know, this is what we do. So you guys have all the. You're both saying correct things, and neither one of you are afraid of work, you know, so the correct things are, I want to build generational wealth. I want to provide college for the young man. I wanna go on a nice vacation. All of those things just need to become line items in the budget. Now, here's where the rub is going to come. When you do that, you, Sheri, are the natural spender. Your husband is the natural tightwad, the saver. And for him, God sent you to him, so he learns to have fun. God sent him to you so you retire with dignity and don't have to eat dog food.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Oh, boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you're going to have some money saved because of this man. He won't let it be any other way. And you're there to make sure he has fun. Because this guy don't know how to lighten up. He'd live in a cave, collect lint and only come out on triple coupon Thursday. You know, lighten up, dude. Let's go on a nice vacation. You guys make a lot of money. I can smell it. He does. And when they're all combined, including this overtime, it's quite nice. She made $9,000 in 10 months.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah, they're doing all right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or 12 months in overtime. That's great. None of you are afraid of hard work. You're good people. So let's just sit down and say, okay, these are things we're going to agree on. And in the overall picture, what number are we going to put on each one? And I want you to go on vacation, and I want you to fund the voice college and I want you to build generational wealth, and you can do every bit of that when you lay it out and use the baby steps. So quit living separate lives. Off to the side, folks. It does not work. All it does is create strife, anxiety. And we're still measuring against the past. We're still saying, I brought this child into this marriage. But he was there. It was not a secret. It was part of the package. And you're worth it. You guys are worth it to go on vacation. So everybody does get to win. It's just a matter of how much and when and in what order.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Most people don't struggle with money because they can't do math. They struggle because they don't stick to a plan. And when your bank makes your money feel confusing or hard to track, plans fall apart fast. And that's why I love Fairwinds Credit Union and their mobile app. Because, let's face it, most banks build systems that make it easy to swipe and hard to stay organized. But with the Fairwinds app, you open it and you know exactly what to do. No clicking through 11 menus just to move your own money. Just tap, tap, transfer. And done. You can deposit a check from your couch by taking a picture. You can get real time alerts so you're not guessing what's in your account. And you can add your Ramsey beware debit card to Apple Pay and tap to check out. See, a lot of banks leverage convenience to make it easier to go into debt. But Fairwinds offers convenience to help you stay in control. It's a huge difference. That's banking that actually supports the baby steps instead of working against them. So if you want to bank someplace that's both faster and wiser, check out Fairwinds. Go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey that's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA. One of the best things for you to do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner that you can trust. Trust they'll help advise you on the best moves to make your situation or your small business. Especially if you've had some big life changes this year to make them the best. The least taxes. That's the whole goal here. Pay as little tax as possible. Go to ramseysolutions.com taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents who have been vetted by the Ramsey team. And they are. Ramsey trusted. Ray's in Nashville. Hi Ray, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. And as a longtime listener thank you for your valuable advice throughout the years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you, sir.

[Caller]

The reason I'm calling, about 40 years ago I was a pilot in the Navy and I took out a $50,000 service men's group life insurance policy. It was about $50 a year, I believe. And back then $50,000 actually was a lot of money. Throughout the years I kept the policy. After the first Gulf War, I got hired by a major airline in 1991. And as the years went on, I continued with my group life. And then when I was in my 40s, I picked up a 30 year term policy for $500,000 which will hold me until I turn 74. In this last December, I turned 65 and by law I was forced to retire as an airline pilot. I am now retired with a fixed income of my pension, Social Security. My wife took an early Social Security at 63 partly because she needed an insurance policy, like a medical insurance policy to gap her until she gets on Medicare. So the status that I have right now, I have no liens, I have no loans at all, my house is paid for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, right?

[Caller]

We're empty nesters. School has been, all the colleges behind us have about a million and a half in my 401k and Ira and I have quite a bit of cash. And so my question is, after I turn 50, the group life policy, it seems like the premiums just go exponentially higher and higher. And I'm sure you're very familiar with this. And then 65 is another tier that it hits. My question is, when I was flying, I felt as though I wanted to have as much insurance as I possibly could. I was doing international flying. Things can take place overseas and I wanted to make sure I was fully insured, that my wife would have a good nest egg in the event that something happened. So now that I'm not flying anymore, I'm questioning whether it makes sense to continue this group of life policy.

[Dave Ramsey]

It does not

[Caller]

seem to make sense at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the reason is very simple. If you canceled both life insurance policies and you died tomorrow, your wife's got a million and a half dollars plus a pile of undisclosed number cash. I think she's okay, dude.

[Caller]

Well, here's the thing. She has longevity in her family and her mother is 97 and the way she lives in Ethan, she's going to succeed me by 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

75% of the ladies outlive their husbands. That's not the point. The point is, how big is this pile of cash you mentioned?

[Caller]

It's About a million cash.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Oh boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we have $2.5 million. If that were invested in a decent mutual fund, and let's just pretend for easy Numbers it produced 10% a year without touching the principal. The 10% would be $250,000. I think Mama's okay, honey.

[Caller]

Well, I'll tell you, she's gonna live to be a hundred in it.

[Dave Ramsey]

She can't make it on 250k.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Even if she, even if she went,

[Dave Ramsey]

can she make it on $250,000 a year?

[Caller]

I'm sure she could.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's my point. You're self insured because you've done an extremely good job. Ray.

[Caller]

You know what? I've listened to your tutelage throughout the years and we were debt free as early as we could. And that's probably the best message that you send.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you sir, I appreciate that. But I just want to tell you, you're what you've been, you know, all these years you've been living on less than you made. You got out of debt and you've invested and now you're sitting on two and a half million dollars. You win the prize. You did it. You're a baby steps millionaire. You're incredible. Very well done, sir. And the point is that good financial planning that creates this kind of net worth with no debt makes you become self insured. Okay, I'll give you another example that's not on your plate. Okay? I'm 65, okay? Sharon and I have it all written out. We have hundreds of millions in our case of net worth. And we're not going to a nursing home. Something happens, I'm just going to hire full time staff and put them in my house. I can afford it. I can hire an MD and put them in the spare bedroom. Right. It's not a problem because I'm self insured through this. I'm not being arrogant, but the point is the money creates enough money to cause you to be able to live out your golden years the way you want to live them out. And you're in that situation without ever touching the nest egg, without being irresponsible or rash.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

What do you think that is, Dave? I feel like there's many times where we will present a mathematical equation of how someone will prosper. We can say things like, hey, you'll have enough money to be able to do this, this and that and there's still like the light doesn't go on of yes, that's true. What is that? Where it's just, it's almost like. Cause even in this case, I almost felt like he didn't believe us. And there's been many calls where we've painted out this elaborate picture of what someone's life can look like. And it's just like. It's almost like they don't believe us when we say things like, hey, folks are paying their houses off. Hey, if you do this, you'll have a million dollars or you'll have $3 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's not a good. It's a grotesque metaphor, but it popped into my head, okay, you've been fighting cancer for five years, and they go in and do an operation, and the doctor comes in and goes, we got it. You don't need radiation. You don't need chemo. We got it. And you go, yeah, but I'm fighting cancer. No, we got it. You did it. You won. Yeah, but I'm fighting. No, we got it. That's the conversation. Yeah, it's just take. Because you're in such. You're in warrior mode and the battle's over. Lay the sword down. You know, you've been living like no one else. Now it's time to live and give

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

like no one else and trust that

[Dave Ramsey]

the process will put the sword down. You won. Battle's over. There's no one left to kill. Everybody's gone. You know, it's just. But you're still out there just swinging because you're just in that mode. And it. Yeah, but you're okay. But you're okay. Yeah, but you're okay. Yeah, but you're okay. And it just. It's like when you run through the finish line, it takes a few second steps to slow down. You don't just suddenly come to a stop. And I think that's the only psychology thing, the only way I can answer the psychology of it. He really wasn't arguing with us. His brain is just in save and invest mode and make sure everybody's okay mode. Everything he did was to take care of his family. I was traveling overseas, internationally. I wanted to make sure I had life insurance.

[Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everything was serving his family. It's a wonderful spirit. And he's like, I want to make sure. Yeah, but you're okay. Yeah, but I want to make sure. Yeah, but you're okay. And that's a wonderful place to be because that's the kind of person who gets. There is. They get this. The blinders on, and they're not listening to all the outside world, and they're able to focus and get out of Debt. And they're able to focus and put money in that 401k. I mean, that guy's a star.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah, he is.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's interesting was we took the call earlier from the 41 year old.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we told him he'd have two and a half million. Ray's got two and a half million.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That's true. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he's 65.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I mean, you know, they're reflections of each other. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But proof text, right?

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah. It really does work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. This is. This is what we're doing. And. And, well, what if. Yeah, what if. I mean, what if you don't save any money? You know, that you're not going to have any money? Hello. There's a direct correlation between people that save money and people that have money. Who knew. And so. Yeah, you know, I don't have anything in investments. Just because you don't invest. Hello?

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

But Ray. Ray's an investor, man. He's. He's stud.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

He's done the whole stud. $1 million cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's a little.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That's different.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cray cray right there. You need to get that invested. Right.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yes, you do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's. I'm so happy I was able to continue doing this show so long that now I'm seeing these people.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who are asking me the question, and I've got too much. What do I do now?

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was not a question. In the early days of this show, I thought I would ever hear.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Right. They started with you and now they're finishing with you and you see the product of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, my car got repoed, Dave. That's the only question I got. In those days. If you run a business, you already know this. Bad information leads to bad decisions. And right now, AI is everywhere. But AI is only as good as the data behind it. The best AI is built on the best data. That's why I recommend NetSuite. NetSuite is the number one AI cloud ERP, and more than 43,000 businesses run on it, including us here at Ramsey Solutions. Their AI isn't bolted on, it's built in. And it connects everything that runs your business, accounting, inventory, customer data, all in one place. Because when your numbers are connected, AI actually works like it's supposed to. NetSuite's AI helps flag cash flow problems, spot inventory issues, close your books faster, and cut down on manual reporting. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to netsuite.com Ramsey for a free product tour. That's netsuite.com Ramsey. Sally is in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi Sally, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm good today. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's on? Going up.

[Caller]

So my question is about debt relief in a low income situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What's your income?

[Caller]

I get Social Security disability. I've been, I'm 64 and I have been getting Social Security disability for two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which is how much?

[Caller]

$2,700.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, 2,700amonth. Okay. What's the nature of the disability a year?

[Caller]

$27,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

27,000 per year. Okay. So.

[Caller]

Right. And that includes a small pension.

Okay, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you're making a 2500. $2300 a month. Okay. And how much is your rent?

[Caller]

It's about $1700 a year? A month rather. And I live in New England, so it's just the rent up here is crazy. Crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care. I don't know how that math works. 2300 minus 1700 equals. Sally doesn't have food.

[Caller]

Right. So I have about $80,000 in between an IRA and an equity account. And I keep drawing off of that, you know, to make ends meet.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the nature of your disability?

[Caller]

It's been everything physical. A lot of physical stuff. Heart problems, mental disability, depression. I mean, I'm being honest, you know.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

So what, what keeps you in New England?

[Caller]

I have one adult daughter.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Who lives in the New England area.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have other family anywhere in the country?

[Caller]

I'm sorry?

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have other family anywhere in the country?

[Caller]

I do. I mean, my ex husband is nearby and he's been very helpful. But my question is, I have this nine thousand dollar credit card debt, which I mean, I pay faithfully, you know, is there any way. What kind of credit card, you know, relief is there?

[Dave Ramsey]

There's not, there's not any. You borrowed money on a credit card. And the only credit card relief there is is if you file bankruptcy, which you're certainly not going to do on $9,000. There's no magic pill that says you're disabled, so they forgive the credit card debt. That doesn't. There's no such thing.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

So I also don't think that that's the biggest concern.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not the core issue. The core issue is you're draining down the savings. What are you gonna do when the savings is gone?

[Caller]

Yeah, I am. And that's. I'm trying to hang on to that.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

How much are you pulling off of it?

[Caller]

I live as snugly as I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but that doesn't matter. You make $2,300 and your rent is $1,700. Those numbers don't last.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

How much are you pulling off that 80,000 every month, Sally?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sally, how much are you taking out of your savings every month, Sally?

[Caller]

Well, a year I try to keep it like between four and six thousand dollars a year, but last year I had to have my transmission replaced and that was $8,000, you know, for that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

How much?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so here's what I want you to figure out. And this is not going to be easy, okay? But there's three or four levers to pull. And everyone, everything I'm going to tell you is going to be hard. But they're not going to be as hard as the plan you're on. Because the plan you're on, you're going to run out of money and you're going to have a problem.

[Caller]

That's my fear.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I know, I know. I'm not trying to scare you. I'm just saying the plan you're on sucks. We need a new. But the other plans aren't going to be without pain. Okay, so plan number part, there's three or four things and you do somewhat of all of them. Okay. I want you to come up with some kind of a self employed idea that you can do with the limitations that you have to create some income. That's thing number one. Just write that down. I don't care what it is, and I don't, as long as it makes you smile and makes you $1,000 or more a month. Okay. The second thing is you've got to move. You cannot afford a $1,700 rent period. And we need to. The third thing is we're doing those two things. So we create a monthly budget that is sustainable, meaning it will last. Okay? And so if you had $3,500 coming in because you had a little bit of side income, and if you had no payments and if you had a rent that was half of what you have now, you can do that without touching your savings and that is sustainable. That will last. But the numbers you're giving me won't last. And you know that, that's why you called. And it's terrifying. I'm sorry you're there. I'm sorry you're there. But if you don't act on it, it's going to get more terrifying. And so we've got to do those three things. We have to create a sustainable situation that the income minus the rent, minus living expenses, doesn't need savings to be used. Then number two, we're going to do that by getting affordable rent and we're going to do that by getting. It may mean moving to another area of the country, I don't know. But $850 rent is available out there in America somewhere. Okay. It might not be in Hartford. I don't know Hartford that well. It's an expensive little town and Connecticut is a highly taxed state. So it's very possible, I don't know. But I want you to think in those terms. We have to get rent and income added to this. Better rent price, better income added to this equation so we don't have to touch the savings. And then you're okay, you're going to be fine. Then you can write a check out of the 80,000 and pay off the stupid credit card and cut it up.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it goes away. That's. Number four, is when you've created a sustainable situation. But today I would tell you, just pay off the credit card. But if you stay in this situation with this income and this rent, you're still going to burn up your savings. The credit card's not your problem. Your problem is your income versus your life the way your life is set up now.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

$1,000 would change.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honey, we're scared with you. We want you to win. And what I'm telling you to do, to move to an 850, that's painful. What I'm telling you to do, to come up with some kind of side hustle where you babysit dogs or you do whatever you iron people's shirts or I don't care what you do, whatever it is you're going to do for a month, okay. It doesn't take a lot. That's not a lot. But neither one of those things are easy. They're painful things that I'm asking you to do for you. But you know, you've got to, if you don't address this, it's going to unravel on you.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Absolutely. Yeah. That money's going to run out. Yeah. This is going to be a major move out of the comfort zone. Major.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know, I think the other thing is I, I sense that you don't have a large, strong community group friends. And so I want you to search out a good local church there in Hartford and I want you to sit in the pastor's office and introduce yourself to them and tell them your story and ask them to help you Plug in with some of the other ladies there in the church. Not so they give you money, but so you get some people that hear your story and that you are seen and you feel good and you feel whole connection, connectivity to community. Especially when you're battling something that's having to do things that are uncomfortable is necessary.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Well, and there's opportunity there. The more people you're around, people get to talking and somebody says this and it sparks an idea and you go, oh, I could go do that. Right. Like all of my major, hey, would

[Dave Ramsey]

you come over to our house and live in our guest house and babysit our dogs?

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you do that for 600 bucks. But we didn't introduce ourselves trying to get something from them.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

It just happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

But those things happen when you're in community and people know your need and they know you and they know you're trustworthy.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah. Your transmission goes out. Oh, I know a guy who can fix that. Or you know my uncle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Instead of 8,000, it's 4,000.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That's right, that's right, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I want you, that's number four. I want you to search out a good local church and sit down, have a meeting with the pastor. Again, not to ask for things except to connect me into community. I need more friends, I need more connection. And connection is valuable.

[Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washall Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host. Today Christine is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi Christine, how are you?

[Caller]

I'M well, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up? Up?

[Caller]

Hey. So I wanted to get your advice and perspective. My boyfriend and I, we want to be married. And we're not running down the aisle tomorrow, but we're working towards it and having conversations.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

And one of, one of the more in depth conversations that we do still need to have is financial. But before, before we, like, even jump into that, like, I want to make sure that I'm coming at it from a really grounded mindset and perspective, like, within myself first. So, like, it makes absolute sense to me that, like, when you get married, you combine your finances together with your spouse. But I'm noticing in myself that I have this little nagging fear of don't become, like, fully financially dependent on your partner because what happens if, like, everything goes wrong? And like, that fear gets even louder when I think about potential future scenarios where, like, if I decide I want to leave my career and stay home with the kids, like, that's something I'm open to. But at the same time, like, this fear gets a little bit louder. And so, like, I don't want that fear to be in the driver's seat for these really important conversations that, like, genuinely, I'm excited to have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, you are. You are very wise in your approach to this. I love your wisdom.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I love that. I also think it's. It's valid. I think a lot of women feel that way, especially certain types of women who do like to go out. And maybe it's never been your, your, your mindset to be like, oh, I'm gonna be home and maybe I'll stay home with kids, but you like to go out and you like to be doing your thing out there. What I tend to do in those situations is I really go back to the facts of it because it really is somewhat of an emotional argument. Cause if you think about it, let's go back to what you said. Well, I'm afraid I'll lose my independence. What if basically I stopped working and he's the sole income earner? Right, Right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Is that the biggest.

[Dave Ramsey]

That could be a change of fear? Yeah.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

So what. What you would be worried about is you're at home and what, he wants to get a divorce and you're out here and you've been, you've exited the workforce for however many years. Right. So now you're struggling to get a job. Right. Is that the. I like to play out the scenario to as much detail as I can. Is that right?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, Me too. Yeah. Yeah, that. Or like you hear about like financial abuse where people are like, well, all the car in his name and he's cutting me off.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay, so those are two different things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now. They're. I think they're the same thing. Well, one of, in both cases, you have to have a voice.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

1.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you both are preventative medicine.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Right. And one of them is, I have a hard time seeing the second scenario, which is any sort of abuse because the fact that you guys are talking about this ahead of time, the fact that you're being proactive, the fact that you're not the type to shy away from being a part of it. I don't think you're going to worry about that at all. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, the first time something smelled funny, you would raise your hand.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not going to be eight months later and going, well, I kind of felt bad. You're not that person. You're like, wait a minute, Bubba, that's you.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah, definitely. And then number the first one, we're going in reverse now is the idea that, okay, what if I exit the workforce? What if I'm out for 10 years, you know, and something goes wrong with the marriage, I'm left, you know, having to create this whole new world for myself. Right. So that's when I would go in and I would really think about it. I'd say, okay, well, what, what's the job that I'm leaving? Is there any way that I can continue to stay connected to that? Maybe you're in health care. You keep your certifications up. There are certain things that you can do to remain relevant. But there's also this idea that you can always, if you're, if you're the same person, you're smart today, you'll be smart ten years from now. Right. You're resourceful today, you'll be resourceful ten years from now. So the assumption that you will somehow go down in value over time and you won't be able to get a job and you won't. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Dave Ramsey]

And of course you're well aware you get half everything.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if there's a million dollars in his 401k, half of it's yours. If there's a million dollar paid for house, half of it's yours.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

But the scary part is, so you're

[Dave Ramsey]

not going to be without as long as you've had a say in and are aware of and you're both voting together and you both are emotional owners of all the decisions, all the Way through. So my wife Sharon's been a full time mom since Denise was born 40 years ago. Talk about vulnerable. Except that she has an equal vote and has had emotionally, practically and legally the entire time. I can promise you, if you interview her, she will not say she has ever one time felt vulnerable. Quite the opposite.

[Caller]

That's so beautiful. And so I guess, like, coming back to like when we're just starting to have these conversations, like, I mean, like, I. What are, like, what are some like, advice that you might give to, like, how do we start these conversations? So, like, I have full faith and confidence in him. I don't expect him to like, have a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Agreed you wouldn't be dating anymore.

[Caller]

Right, right. So, like, I guess how do we step through those kinds of conversations just to, you know, do the groundwork, to make sure that we are on the same page and setting ourselves up right. For we have this equal vote, you know, that sort of thing.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I think that you do exactly what you're doing, which is you lead with your heart and what you want for the future. So you start by saying things like, you know, I want our marriage to last forever and I want us to have full transparency. I want to be able to be. She gets completely vulnerable with you and you start that way because who can argue with that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And I want, I want to vote. I want both our votes to count.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And because two is better than one and you know all that. And then you say, and then you go, okay, let's talk through some of this. Because the number one cause of marriage problems and divorce is money fights and money problems. So let's go ahead and figure out. If bears kill people in our neighborhood, it's the number one thing they die of. Then we need to figure out how to keep the bears away. Right. So what are we going to do? What are we going to do? Well, okay, let's look at debt, let's look at savings. Let's look at the way you grew up. The way I grew up. Are you a natural saver, a natural spender? Are you a natural glass half full, glass half empty, Abundance or scarcity? And you start to go through some of those things and generally opposites attract. So celebrate the differences. And not one of you is wrong, one of you is right. But if you're the natural saver, my wife's the natural saver. We celebrate that at our house. I'm also the natural spender. We celebrate that at our house. She gets to do stuff because I'm there, you know, and so we celebrate that. And so you know, Rachel and Winston, Rachel's the spender and Winston is the saver at their house and so on. So anyway, you just start working that through and you know, it's almost a part of pre marriage counseling to go in depth on. What do you believe about giving, saving, spending fun, retirement wealth, insurance? What do you believe about these things? And let's talk about that and talk about the feelings that come around all of those things and then start to go, okay, I'm going to have to come your direction from my natural tendency. You're going to have to come some my direction from your natural tendency. And we're going to find a really cool strong point at the third point on the triangle from there that's better than either one of us were by ourselves. Thus we're getting together. So you're gonna be great. You ask a question so well and you ask the right question.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah, you're gonna be intentional. Your brain is gonna remain turned on. I'm not concerned about you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gonna send you a copy of Rachel's book Know Yourself, Know youw Money. Both of you could read it. It'll help you. Getting married changes something in you. It sure did in me. When you say I do, all of the sudden life isn't just about you anymore. It's about we. And one of the most grown up things you can do for that we is to make a [e-mail] See, being a grown up isn't just about jobs and rent and splitting up the chores. It's about having a plan so the person you love is protected. And a will isn't about dying. It's about deciding. It puts your wishes in writing so no one has to guess and judges don't have the final say. That's why I recommend Mama Bear. Legal forms With Mama Bear, making your will is easy. It's completely online, no lawyers required. You can get it done in about 20 minutes. The price you see at the start is the price you pay with Mama Bear. So if you're serious about being an adult, do this today. Go to mamabearlegalforms.com use the promo code RAMSEY and save 20% on your will. That's mamabearlegalforms dot com promo code RAMSEY. Well, we love hearing people people's stories about how they're winning with money. And we got a great review on the Everydollar budgeting app. This app allows me to keep my budget and goals organized. I love the projection on when we will be Debt free and my estimated net worth. It gives you something to work towards. Gives you a light at the end of the tunnel. Boom. It's exactly why we built this. Perfect. That's great to hear. Hey, really good things are happening over at Everydollar. You live like no one else. Later, you can live and give like no one else. And you will learn to work not only a budget, but the whole Ramsey plan will be us holding your hand While you're using EveryDollar. Start EveryDollar for free today in the App Store or Google Play. Brian is in Los Angeles. Hey, Brian. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm good, Dave. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, so I was just calling for some advice because I'm kind of at a crossroads right now. I've kind of achieved my most immediate financial goals and I kind of don't know what to do moving forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What do you mean?

[Caller]

Yes. So I got about 350k liquid. I have two health care businesses that are grossing about 750,000 a year. And I have a wife and a kid and I'm paying about 60 to 80 thousand dollars in taxes. the end of the year, I have about 300k in equity on my house with 900,000 left on the mortgage. I don't have any credit card debt or anything like that. The cars are paid off. I was just wondering, like in my situation, you know, with this 350,000 sitting in a checking account, you know, Chase and the people who I'm banking with, they're kind of calling, wanting me to move the money around. But, you know, I worked hard to save it up. I'm not sure really what to do with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're Jed Clampett. Mr. Drysdale's calling.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That's funny.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't even know what that is. Look it up. Okay.

[Caller]

Only 30, so I have to look it up.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the Beverly Hillbillies. It's an old show. Okay. Anyway, the. Oh my God. Immediately become irrelevant.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Anyway, I was with you. I was with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

The. So way to go. So you're making your income off the 750. Gross is somewhere around 250, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's about 15 to 20k a month. That's. That's about after taxes, including.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm talking about your growth. Your. Your taxable annual income from these businesses is around 250, isn't it?

[Caller]

Yeah, something like that. 250.

[Dave Ramsey]

About 20,000amonth.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

That's after tax. I pull in about 20,000amonth with distribution. And see, I'm taking 7,000amonth in W2 for myself and then my wife is about 2.5 thousand in W2. So I don't even know if that is.

[Dave Ramsey]

None of that matters with what I'm talking about.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

What?

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm talking about what your real taxable income is. So we know it's 10 on W2. And then you have profit on these businesses that you own. You know what profit is and that profit is also taxable. And the total of all of that is 60. And in a 30% bracket, that means you're making around 250, maybe 300,000 a year. Year. Okay. Somewhere in there.

[Caller]

Yeah, my bracket is 37%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then you should be. Yeah, you're probably making 300 then. Okay, so that's good. Way to go. Congratulations. I do want you to get more on top of your numbers on your business. It scares me that you don't know what you make, but. And then you somehow bifurcated that under what you're doing on W2. I don't have that problem here and I make a lot more than that on this place. So I know exactly where my income's coming from and how much it is. So I want you to know that. That then I want you to take a whole bunch of this 350 and pay down your mortgage. I want you to get your house paid off fast as you can.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And. Your instinct on not listening to a bank who was trolling you was very wise. The last thing you want to do is listen to Chase our JP Morgan for anything. Our fifth, third. You don't listen to them for anything. This is just where I deposit money and where I run my checking account and my debit card. That's the only place I use them for. Okay. I'm not using a bank for investment advice. They don't have good investment advice. They give you bank advice, they give you good banker advice. So you need to sit down with a good broker to do your long term investing. But we teach people at your stage and way to go. You're doing extremely well, Brian. Obviously you're a bright guy. I mean, idiots don't generally make 300k. And so, you know, you're doing really, really well.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

What's the purpose of the 350 set aside in cash? How's it earmarked?

[Caller]

It's just. It's just what? What? I've been saving and I'm at the stage now where, you know, I ran everything to chat GPT so the kids are doing, you know, and everything came back that I need to interview some CPAs because I really don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you don't need to listen to ChatGPT either about investment advice.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

But I do want to know is that your personal money or is any of your business retained earnings part of that? Like how is that, how is it

[Caller]

so that 350 differentiated mutual checking account that me and my wife have access to?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

And then that's not including the money that is in my businesses that will hold it for six months. So they include that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

But I don't include that as my money. That's my doomsday.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's why you need retained earnings in the business. So what we would teach you to do is to get a good investment advisor that has the heart of a teacher and we'll sit down with you and your wife and teach you about some good ways to put some of this aside. You need to get some 401ks of some kind going and some Roth IRAs going of some kind. And there's several things you can do in your situation, depending on how your companies are set up up. And then, and then you're gonna have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses set aside. So some of this 350 will still be sitting there. And you could call it 50. You have a $900,000 mortgage, I think you said, so I'm gonna throw 300 at that. And then I'm gonna say, how fast can I pay off that 600,000 and have a paid for house out of this wonderful income I have from this company? And you're living very frugally, so you're doing a great job. And so, you know, let's pay that house off in three or four more years. And I mean in the meanwhile, start some investing for your retirement plans and you're going to become very, very wealthy. You're not going to become very wealthy just dumping 350 in a high yield savings.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Let's talk about why though. Because somebody listening is like, well, that sounds pretty good to have $350,000 and just sitting in cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not bad. It's better than not having it, right?

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

But I mean, there's somebody listening going, well, why do I need to invest that? I'm afraid of investments. I'd rather just have it sitting in my account. It's not losing money, is it? And so that's the person that I want to speak to because I do think that it probably feels good to have money there. But you have to think about what that money's doing over time. And if it's not in a high yield savings account and it's just in a regular savings account, then you're really earning nothing on it. Even if it's in a high yield, maybe you're at 3.5, but if you invest in it, it you can have a better rate of return over time. I think you said earlier 11.8% has been the average return.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. In the last three years, the average has been north of 20%. Yes, but that's not normal. But let's just say, for instance, you took the last three years, okay, 20% of 350,000, and you made three instead. So. But 20% would be $60,000 a year, right? Yes, $70,000 a year. Okay. And could have made $70,000 a year for the last three years.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That's a lot of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that's another 210. But instead we made 3.5. Yeah. Made 3% on it. And so I don't know.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

More than.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like nothing more than half.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

In other words, you lost tens of thousands of dollars per year by not having it invested. And that's what financial people like I was trained call opportunity cost. You missed the opportunity to make an average of about $70,000 on that for the last three years. Not to mention, if you'd left it in there, you would have made 20% on the 70 and then 20% on the 140 on top of that. But we're not even talking about that. And that's not normal. That's not every year. But it's actual facts. In the last three years, that's what it would have been. And so Instead you made 3%, which is like $9,000 dollars per year.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so deal.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

It's a big deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, that's the missed opportunity on your money. Because when your money's one place, it can't be another. It loses the opportunity to go to work.

[Caller]

Buying a home is one of the biggest financial decisions you'll ever make. But too many people base the decision on opinions or what the market is doing that week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Churchill Mortgage has been our trusted partner for over 30 years because they do things the Ramsey way. A lot of people think buying a home starts with going to a bunch of open houses. But if you're buying a home the right way, you start with a budget and a trusted guide like Churchill. Before you even think about house shopping, Churchill will show you the Real numbers, not what a bank will approve. Buying before being ready is how people end up house poor and stressed out.

[Caller]

Churchill will tell you the truth and they won't push you into more house than you need. And once you understand what you can actually afford, you can move forward with clarity and confidence.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you're ready to buy a home, choose the right guide and stick to a plan. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com and get started. That's ChurchillMortgage.com this is a paid advertisement

[Caller]

in MLS ID 1591 in MLS ConsumerAccess.org equal housing lender.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nicole is in Tulsa. Hi, Nicole, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Good, thank you. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Thank you. I have listened to you guys since I was about 17. I'm almost 38 now. And you guys listen just changed my life just tremendously. So I just am so, so grateful. My most basic question is I am currently working on my doctorate program. I work full time and I just have very little margin between my schedule and my budget. And I'm getting just burned out and just wanting to hear from the experts on what you would recommend just to keep staying the course and to, you know, just keep at it.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

How much time do you have left in this situation of working hard?

[Dave Ramsey]

PhD? Yeah. How much? How much to finish up the doctorate?

[Caller]

So I have about 16 hours after this semester. So I'm pretty close, but just, you know, pulling teeth to get there.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then dissertation.

[Caller]

Right, that includes the dissertation, but I have it almost completely written.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. And you're. But you have 16 hours of classwork also?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. So what are you gonna do one semester or how long does that take it?

[Caller]

The trajectory is about a year and a half. Just how the coursework falls within the school dynamat.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so it's not, it's not a real heavy course load then?

[Caller]

It's not. No, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and so you run a full time job, 40 hours?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. What do you make right now? I make about 50.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you can't live on that.

[Caller]

I can. I've got a very, very tight budget, but I have about probably, you know, 15, 30 bucks left over at the end of every month.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Is it just you?

[Caller]

Just me.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay. I want to know more about the money. You said you've only got 15 or 30. Do you have debt?

[Caller]

I don't know. So I'm in baby step four. So I. And I've saved up already for the school, so I have just about what? I need to finish that above my six month emergency fund. Probably my biggest hurdle is just my rent is it takes. I'm sitting at about 1200amonth for that.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

It's not as bad as I thought you were going to say.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're are. You said four. You're putting 15% of your income away in retirement.

[Caller]

I'm not right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're not in four.

[Caller]

Okay.

All right.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay. So there's a couple parts to this. The first part of your question is how do I stay motivated? Which just sounded more like just a emotional space of staying motivated till the end. End. And then it sounds like there's also a financial component which is also my budget is tight.

[Caller]

Right? Correct.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I mean, in this case, let's talk about the budget first. In this case, it sounds like every square inch of your time is accounted for. Am I wrong or am I right?

[Caller]

You're beyond right.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay, so then the next place we can look is, is there anything that you can cut out of your budget? Is there anything that is worth changing for the next year and a half to make this thing better? Better? I'm looking at your rent, but I think to myself, you're probably in some sort of a lease. You've got a year and a half. I don't know that that's worth shaking loose.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I just. What do you do? What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

Sure. So I've been working in the mental health field for the last eight years or so. So I've been working in the health field.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing what?

[Caller]

Right now I'm doing case management. I have been doing therapy. I shifted that just to have a little bit less stress to be able to kind of keep myself going.

[Dave Ramsey]

And your PhD is in counseling or what?

[Caller]

It's actually in ministry. So it's merging the Christian field with therapy, trauma, all of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what are you, what is your plans to do with that?

[Caller]

Sure. I'd like to merge it within, you know, therapy as well as shift into ministry as well. So I know it's not a real high paying, you know, degree, but I know with therapy going, shifting into that, I can, you know, nearly double my income.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know why you couldn't do therapy through the lens of ministry and make excellent money. I don't know why you have to take a back seat just because you use the word ministry in the sentence.

[Caller]

Sure. And that's definitely part of my goals to be able to do that now.

[Dave Ramsey]

And with a PhD you can teach as well.

[Caller]

So that's that's part of the goal as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. We want to make sure we monetize is all of this hard work off the back. And don't in the name of saying I'm holy or I'm doing ministry, accept less than you're worth in the marketplace. Instead, go be worth that in the marketplace. And that is a ministry. So you serving people in the counseling or mental health space with a faith based element is hugely valuable and sought after, by the way. So that's not something that you have to make, you know, 60,000 after going to all this work of doing a PhD. Don't do that. So anyway, I just want to pep talk you there. I think you can do a lot with this and I want you to go, I want you to go make 100k plus. Okay. When you're done with this PhD, I

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

think there's the motivation to continue right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then it's worth it. Then it's worth it to just push on through. But you know, you've gotten this far and the light is at the end of the tunnel. Lay out a detailed track that says, on this date I will be done, dissertation will be reviewed and completed, the classwork will be completed. And they're going to put Dr. In front of Nicole's name on this date. Lay that out. And then you start to go. You can almost put that on the wall as a thermometer. And then just every month you check it off and work your way through like you were in kindergarten or something. But it's good for you to visually see the feedback that we're making traction, we're heading in the right. We're gonna be okay. That helps. If there's. The reason I was asking about all this is if, because you're doing your coursework and your casework Monday through Friday, if there's anything you can do on Saturday to add 1500 bucks to a month to this situation, it's probably going to make your life a lot better. And you're not going to die from fatigue because you're young and you've got the ability to push through these things. Nothing we're doing here is out of control. And it's not forever.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

And if you can't, if you can make it a side hustle that you enjoy doing, like if you're flipping furniture, right? If you enjoy arts and crafts, that's a great thing for you to do. Flip a piece of furniture, make 1500 bucks off it, right? Or if you enjoy, you know, working with your hands, do something that also feels like a little bit of a hobby that you enjoy while you're making money. I think that'll make it easier for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or you can do a little self employed idea of some kind of. Or you could stay right in the mental health field and do some kind of freelance casework of some kind. I don't care. But 1500 bucks a month would be a good trade for your Saturdays and would give you some breathing room in the budget, which also helps you fight through the fatigue and go, I'm going to make it. I've only got this many more months. I've got eight months, I've got seven months. I got six months. I got five months. I got four months. We're going to make it. And you start to. But you got to put it down in detail where your mind believes that this is going to be over. Because it is going to be over. If you plan for it to be over. You don't want to be a perpetual student. No one. Well, some people do. No one should. No one should. Yeah, that's a better way of saying that. Wow. Yeah.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

You got this sacrifice to win. She's in it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It sounds like that. Just, you know, the other thing I would do is make sure someone else in the PhD program knows your story, what you're doing. Sit down, share this. Even if you just share each other's tears for a little bit or whine together, we're gonna whine a little bit, have a little whining session here. This is hard and I'm tired. That's good.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

You need somebody to be able to talk to like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. That does give you energy. Because if you're fighting the dragon all by yourself, you can get burned. And you need the other people speaking into it. You and speaking over you. Good things. That is so. I mean, that's what you do all day long for other people. You know, that's what a caseworker does. You speak life into the. Into the case, into the situation. You bring wisdom to the situation, perspective into the situation and keeps it moving. So I got a feeling you're going to do great. I want to hear how this whole PhD thing works out with your ministry. In quotes. Yeah, quotes. That's where it belongs. Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Refi is. If you've fallen behind on your private student loans and have stopped making payments, it can feel like every door is closed. But why Refi helps borrowers explore low Fixed rate refinancing options that fit their budget. Go to why refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay. Today's question comes from Rachel in Louisiana. She says, my husband and I have five kids between 5 and 15 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Old.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

We have baby step four in place through our jobs, but saving for college seems overwhelming with five kids. My husband and I are in our 40s with over 600,000 in retirement. Would you recommend reducing retirement contributions to 10% for a season to throw more money at college? I wish I knew how old the others were.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wish I knew how much they made.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I wish I knew how much they made, too. It's. We're missing some valuable information here, I think at first glance, and I wish I knew how much you already had saved.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think you're going to make it.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, here's why. Let's say you make $200,000 a year. If you reduce your retirement contributions by 5%, that's $10,000 a year for five kids. That's $2,000 each. And you've only got three years before the first one gets there. That's $6,000. You've got eight years before the next one gets there. That's $24,000. So this 5% does not fit. You're not going to change it unless you make, you know, like $700,000 a year, which you don't or you wouldn't have been writing this email. So the, you know, you're going to have to skin this cat another way because you've got this idea that retirement is blocking it until you actually put the real dollars to it, not the percentages. And then you can say that now, if you completely stopped it, it's not 10,000, it's 30,000. You know, that would help, but it's still not going to get you there completely. So what I'm doing is I'm going to begin having training sessions with the children on what college looks like. You want some help? You ready to set? Go. Number one reason people take out student loans is not that they went to college. It's that they went to the wrong college, one they could not afford.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Love a community college.

[Dave Ramsey]

Love a community college. Free in most states, near free in the rest of them. For the first two years. Get your basics out of the way. Live at home.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Love working here.

[Dave Ramsey]

I need the college experience. Well, you had to have other parents because we don't have the money for you. To have the college experience. We're not financing college experience, we're financing education here. Number one goal, get the education, not play beer pong.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

But you can work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's number two.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I love working.

[Dave Ramsey]

After college choice, we could work.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And guess what? You can earn a lot of money while you're in college working. Everybody that worked while you're in college, raise your hand out there. All of them just raised their hands in the lobby. Okay, Come on. I mean, seriously. I work 40 to 60 hours a week. I was so glad to get out of school so that. It was so that all I had to do was work.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

It's easy.

[Dave Ramsey]

I had to work and go to school. Shut up. I wanted to graduate. I wanted out of there.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I know that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So not a pleasant experience. It was something I was getting done.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

And there's time for scholarships here. They've got time. I mean, they got a five year old through 15. There's a lot of money there for scholarships.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So where you go to school, Work while you're in school, get scholarships. These are the three big things. By far the biggest is where you choose to go to school. Because that first two years is anywhere between zero and $100,000 a year.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, gosh, think about it.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I'm mad because I did not take our advice and I understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you ended up with $200,000 in student loan debt.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. 265, right?

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah. Most. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is that right? I'm not rubbing your nose in there. I'm just trying to remember.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I'm just saying most of that was from Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. I wish we'd have gotten a hold of Sam. Okay, that's fair. We'll throw him under the bus since he's not here. Hey, Sam, next time I see you, I want to see the bus tracks. Okay.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

He's used to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but either way. Either way, it's what you signed up for when you married him too. So that goes with it.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That is true.

[Dave Ramsey]

The thing is this. You can get a college education if you work while you're in school. Apply for every scholarship in sight. Go to a school you can afford, which includes probably the first two years you're in a community college and certainly after that you're doing in state tuition. And by the way, let me help you people with this. No one cares where you went to school.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

They really don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

No one cares where you went to school. If someone is hiring based on where you went to school, you don't Want to work for those people? They're not smart people. 78% of the Fortune 500 companies, the largest 500 companies on the stock exchange, 8 out of 10 of them, their CEO went to a state. Scoop. Hey, Harvard, hold my beer. I'm not paying Princeton MIT rates because it puts me into a job. There's no research that shows, not one iota of data that shows you're successful based on where you went to school. None. You can't find it. It's all bs. Yes, it's all. People who are stuck on prestige, not education. Don't get caught up in prestige. I'm telling you, it's not worth it. Now if you've got an extra half million laying around and your kid wants to go to Vanderbilt, fine. If you got an extra half million dollars laying around and you want to put your kid at mit, I'm okay with that. Or Northwestern, I'm okay with that. But you got to have the extra money laying around. This lady does. And this lie that we have sold to people in America that where you went to school is equated with your success is absolute data based bullcrap. It does not exist. So choose a school you can afford and you will get a good education. You don't believe me? Last time you hired a lawyer, did you ask them where they went to school? You don't believe me? Last time you hired a cancer doctor, did you ask them where they went to school? Did you ask your dentist where they went to school? No, you didn't. You asked them if you're going to hurt me while you clean my teeth. That's all you wanted to know. Did you ask your veterinarian before he gave your puppy a vaccination where he went to school? No, you didn't. And you don't have any freaking idea. I rest my case. Boys and girls, all you care about is do they have the expertise? Did they get the knowledge at the school that they went to to do the job I'm asking them to do? That's the only thing you care about when I'm hiring. I don't. I don't care where you went to school. I've never hired a person based on where they went to school. And we got a thousand people working at Ramsey. We hire them based on can you do the freaking work? Do you know what you are doing on the thing we hired you to do? That's all we care about. I don't know if any of the people sitting in the booth even have a degree, much less where they went to school or even if they got out of high school, one of them might not have. I'm kidding. Not much. I'm serious, guys. This is a deal. Can you do the job? Are you a professional? Do you have the discipline? Do you know the stuff in your discipline? If you're an accountant, you should be able to do accounting and you can learn to do that at a school no one ever heard of just as well as you pay $100,000 a year for. So it's bull crap. So this is the message we gave our kids. We had kid training.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

But then you have to add in the point that you're making this decision when you're 18. You don't even fully know who you are yet. Which is where you get to the point where you're spending this crazy amount of money for a degree that you don't even know if you're going to end up working in that field. 50% of folks don't even work in the field that they got their degree in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Also Rachel, last thing, I'm going to give you one more piece of advice. Download and watch tonight with the whole family five years old and beyond the YouTube documentary borrowed future award winning we did it. When your 5 year old reminds you when they're 25 that you showed them this when they were 5 and they said oh, I'm not going into debt to go to school. That nobody cares where I went to school. All I care about is getting an education to do the thing I want to do. When they remind you of that 20 years from now because they watch this documentary and you didn't think they were watching it because they're five. They were watching it. You you believe me, they were watching it. Ramsay kids will tell you they they learned stuff like this growing up. Where you go to school doesn't matter. What matters is the person in your mirror. Are you going to go out there, leave the cave, kill something and drag it home? Your perseverance, your integrity, your tenacity, your raw intellect, your ability to pivot in the marketplace. These are the things that cause you to be successful. Your character not freaking where you went to school.

[Caller]

The wind.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey your host Jade Washall Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host Sydney is in Augusta, Georgia. Hi Sydney, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Hi Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

I'm wondering how I can help my husband then finish paying off our Debt and become a baby step millionaire as a stay at home mom of two.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. What's he make?

[Caller]

He makes 80,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good, very good. How much debt have you guys got?

[Caller]

We had about 67,000 and we've paid off 30,000 in the last year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go. Wow. How'd you do that?

[Caller]

By a lot of couponing and scrimping and budgeting.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Wow. So you were living on 50?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Holy smokes. Way to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Good for you. That's how you do it. You want to know how to get there. That's how you do it. You were. You know, the only difference is you're probably going to dial back the intensity after you get out of debt. But all it is is you're intentional doing this on purpose. How old are you guys?

[Caller]

I just turned 30 and he's. I'm sorry, I just turned 33. He just turned 29.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, very cool. What's he do for living?

[Caller]

He's in the army.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, very good. Planning to be career or what?

[Caller]

We're not sure at this point. The officer, I guess he's hoping to make. What is it? Staff sergeant? Pretty soon.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good, good. All right, fine. Well, good. Tell him thanks for serving his country. You too, because you get to go along for the ride. And so. Well, your number one, you've obviously been listening to what we teach. Your number one wealth building, building tool is your income. And if from age 30 to age 60 or 70, you invest 15% of your income, you're going to be multi millionaires. I don't know how long before you reach the first million, but you could get on the Ramseysolutions.com website, click on the retirement calculator and play with some numbers to give you the assurance that you're going to be able to do it. But as a stay at home mom that coupons and is tight on the budget and knows how to watch and make everything squeak, you're a home economist, you're cooking from scratch. The kids clothes aren't wearing out, they're not sick all the time. And you know you're saving tons of money by operating your household the way you're operating it. And you can continue to do that without putting a huge strain on the family. Y' all have been very intimidating. So. But when you get out of debt, I want you to lighten up the intensity a little bit. But I want you to just run the numbers. The two of you sit down with that retirement calculator tonight and if you invest 15% of your income from the time you're out of debt until you retire. It's at least $2 million right now. That's where you'll be. Okay, maybe three when you put it in. I'm not sure. Okay. But yeah, I want you to do that. And then as far as being a baby steps millionaire, when you get the house paid off, the value of the house plus whatever you've got saved, I predict you're gonna be there in about 10 years. So you'll have your first million dollar net worth in about 10 years. That's what it sounds like based on the math.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is that okay?

[Caller]

Yeah, we hope so. I mean, because we're also gonna be looking at if he does not stay in the army, moving back home. And we know that's currently to selling our house here, which we're not attached to whatsoever, and then buying land back home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where's back home?

[Caller]

In Texas.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so not unaffordable, I hope.

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Very affordable. Good.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So. And, and of course he'll need a, an income, a career for what he does after he leaves the military, right?

[Caller]

Yes. He's gotten several job offers that are very high paying for us.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's happening? What kind of income?

[Caller]

Making it probably about double from 160 to 180.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That's awesome. You sound worried. What are you worried about?

[Caller]

I'm not so much worried. I just. I feel like I'm not really pulling my weight right now because I just take care of our kids and my husband is just.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Oh, wow.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I say just you're raising the next Billy Graham and you just took care of your kids.

[Caller]

Kids, you know, but think about, hold

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

on, hold on a second. Think about for a second.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't tell Sharon Ramsey that she just raised Rachel.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay. Think about for a second all the tasks that you do inside the home and think for a moment what it would take if you were to, if you were to go away and you had to pay someone to do those tasks. Wash all, wash. Wash all the clothes, wash all the dishes, keep the house clean, keep the kids clean, get the them where they're going on time, pick them up. You'd have to hire a live in full time nanny to do that job.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're talking Mary Poppins here.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That is real economic and financial value. It is 100%. It's just baked in. You're just used to doing it to

[Dave Ramsey]

around 50 or 60,000 a year, maybe

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

more, depending on how many kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Well, my Husband wants five someday.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

So listen, Cha Ching.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that. That's a different discussion. But, yeah, but the point is, you guys are fine. You are not a princess. You are a person who's content. You're adding value, tremendous value to your family, economically and emotionally, so that when he's at work, he's not worried about the home front.

[Caller]

Yes, that's what he tells me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Zig Ziglar used to call it the home court advantage. You know, when a team plays on their home court, they've got the home team cheering for them. They have an advantage of several points over the visitor. You know what I'm talking about, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you take care of the household, you're providing a home court advantage.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

And you're playing a key role.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's huge.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Key role.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's huge. Let me tell you. The fact that Sharon Ramsey was there and was a solid rock and wasn't high maintenance allowed me to go do this Ramsey thing. This Ramsey thing wouldn't be there if I had to run home and do maintenance all the time. She never said, wait till your father gets home. They were hoping he was going to get home.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Some relief maybe. He'll save us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Daddy will save us. No, I'm serious. I mean, that's. There was no need. Yes, I did my part as the dad, but I'm telling you, the value that she did. There is a thing. And I'll leave you this last one thing, and then that is Proverbs 31. Who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above rubies. Wow. And her husband safely trusts her. And he will have no lack of gain. You want no lack of gain? Get you a Sidney. I'm telling you, telling you, if you get a Sydney, you're gonna have no lack of gain. You get a Sharon, you're gonna have no lack of gain. And we just cannot say that enough. So. And the problem, and Deloney's talked about this before, Jade. And you and Rachel have done a great job of packing it, unpacking it as well. The problem is that in our culture today, guys can just go win. It's okay. Gals, they don't win even when they win.

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

There's Gilbert.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you go in the marketplace, you've abandoned your trip children. If you go at home and you stay at home, you've wasted your life.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

And you got. You got guilt and shame coming from the stupid people in the culture. No matter what you do, no matter what, there's a no win or there's a win win, whatever it is. Oh, I can be a great mom and work and be professional and produce in the marketplace or I can be a great mom and that is producing. Or I can be in the marketplace a lot and produce and. And bubba be changing some diapers. Hello?

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, I mean, this is all. There ain't nothing wrong with any of these scenarios.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Nope. You just have to be confident in the one that you select.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen up, folks. If you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsey trusted tax pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsey trusted tax pros know the tax code front to back so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to you with the heart of a teacher. But they can only do that if you get on their schedule before they book up. Go to ramseysolutions.com taxpro to find a full time tax advisor who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com taxpro. Well, we wish we could get to every call and question here on the show. So if you have a money question and want an answer for your situation, head on over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained only on proven Ramsey principles. If you don't know how AI works, it's artificial. It's not real. It's not intelligence. It's artificial intelligence. And it can only regurgitate the data set that you put into it. And so if your data set is skewed or screwed up or has bad information in it, it's gonna produce bad information out the back. So this has not got that problem because we own it. So there's nothing, no data set has been put into this except three years of calls off this show and how we answer the calls and all of Financial Peace University and all the articles we've written and all the books we've written, the Ramsey personalities and me. And they're all dumped into the data sets from all of those to answer your questions. And then the AI tool generates the answer. And it sounds really close, like exactly like you're listening to the show. It's not quite as smart aleck. I'm trying to get them to add my smart aleck in there a little bit or my mean side, like if I've had too much coffee. But so far it's a little nicer than I am. But that's okay. We can Go with that. Rachel's a little nicer version of me anyway, so. And Jade is too, so there you go. So ask your [e-mail] or click the link in the description. If you've been listening on a podcast or on YouTube, ask Ramsey, the new AI tool. Free. Completely free. Give it a shot. All right. Troy is in Toledo. Hi, Troy. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. How you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

Great.

My wife and I are self employed. We're in our mid-60s and we're approaching semi retirement. My wife does all the financing and has put us in a very good position of life. I would want to. I want to purchase an RV so we can start adventuring out. She wants to pay off the mortgage first.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much money do you have? That's a good position.

[Caller]

Well, we probably. We have like 1.25 in real estate. We have about 550 in mutual funds as far as our investment goes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much is the mortgage balance?

[Caller]

About 425 on a 1.7 house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

That we just built three years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what's your income between.

[Caller]

We're self employed. Anywhere between 3 and 400 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you can pay off the house in like two years. Right?

[Caller]

Well, we're on a good track that we are approaching three to four. She wants to push a little bit harder.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

How much is the RV?

[Caller]

We're looking anywhere between 2 and 300. Hopefully putting 100 down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Oh, financing.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would not buy it if I didn't. I wouldn't buy it if I didn't pay cash for it. I would buy a used one instead of a new one because they really go down in value. Like unbelievable. Go down in value that wasn't used. And I would pay off the mortgage first. In the meantime, though, I don't mind scratching your itch. You have a great income. You've got a great net worth. You've done a great job. You're just not quite across the finish line. And I would scratch the itch just by renting one for the few weeks or weekends that you wanted to. I mean, you can rent that same 300,000 for nothing.

[Caller]

Yes, we have one, Dave. It's just not the one that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you already own one. Interesting.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

So would you be selling that one? Taking the hundred? Is that where the hundred was coming from?

[Caller]

That's part of the hundred.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And our concern is we're both relatively healthy and yet we have some concerns that if we wait four or five Years, we may not be in a position.

[Dave Ramsey]

Take the one you got and go on the road. Shut up. Up. You have one. I know, but the only difference is not that you don't get to go while you're healthy. The difference is you don't get to go in the style you wanted to go.

[Caller]

This is true.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

65 or 66, you said.

[Caller]

I'm 62. My wife is 67.

[Dave Ramsey]

62, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you're doing great. You're doing great, but do not finance stuff, period, on what might happen someday. And all you're talking about is an upgrade here. It's like, I have a boat, but I want a bigger boat.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I might die someday. Yeah, you're gonna die for sure. And you're gonna get sick before you die. It's usually how it happens, so. But, yeah, you don't go finance a boat to celebrate that idea. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. She wins the argument.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah, I agree. Definitely pay the mortgage off first, throw

[Dave Ramsey]

the flag, Boom, you're done after that.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Don't finance it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Victoria is in Washington, D.C. hey, Victoria. What's up?

[Caller]

Hello. Nice to see you guys. I. I just kind of started tuning in not too long ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Caller]

Which I regret for some financial decisions I've made in the past.

[Dave Ramsey]

I thought you said you regret tuning in. I was starting to worry.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

We all feel that way.

[Caller]

Well, I guess about a year ago, I was kind of drowning in minimum payments because I had racked up a good amount of credit card debt because I bought my house when I was 22, and I didn't understand the cost that comes with owning a house. And so I. About a year ago, I was looking through options, and I chose to do a debt settlement, which I didn't fully understand what that was, but they promised a low monthly payment that I could maintain, so I did it. And I'm currently on babysit 2. And I should have all but two loans paid off by the end of this year. And those two loans is. Which I called it. That settlement alone, but there's no interest on it. And then I'm finishing grad school, and I finished grad school at the end of this year, and. And I. So I'll have to start paying on my student. My student loans, which are about 70,000, and that includes undergrad and grad.

[Dave Ramsey]

What will happen to your income when you finish grad school?

[Caller]

Unfortunately? Well, I'm also getting. I'm an engineer, so I'm getting my professional engineering license I'm not exactly certain what they're. What I'm going to get. I'm hoping it's not going to be a much of a large.

What do you make a big jump?

I make 96.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So why are you getting all these licenses and graduate degrees if they're not causing your income to go up?

[Caller]

The graduate degree is more of a long term, hopefully get my income up. It's just that I'm so young and I guess inexperienced that it doesn't necessarily help me now, but it'll help in my career trajectory.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

And then I'm 26.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't know if I believe that or not. I want you to investigate. I want you to investigate that because one of the things we found is engineers have the highest probability of becoming millionaires of any career track. So that's really good.

[Caller]

I am civil. So we do make less than some. But there, that's another question I've been, I've been battling with is there's opportunities out there that I could leave my current job and make 70% more than I do now. But I love what I do so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't love it that much. I could learn to love it a lot for 70% more. You're talking about an $80,000 a year raise.

[Caller]

Yes.

That's kind of a no brainer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Even if you did it. Even if you did it for three or four years. Yeah, definitely.

[Caller]

So I am applying to that position.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

You never told us, you never told us how much the first consolidation loan was for.

[Caller]

That originally was for. It was for 40,000 and I think I owe 35 right now. Mm.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

So then my student loans are 70 and I guess my question is, I know that the snowball effect, you're supposed to pay off the smaller loan, but my student loans are gonna have a 6% interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't care about the interest. I care about you getting out of debt in 20 minutes. Take the new job, make a lot more money, pay off debt quickly. That's what I would do. And list them smallest, largest. If you pay it all off in a year, it's not gonna matter.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah. Especially if you take the job where you're making dumb double. You're making 180 instead of 96 or you know, 160 and then you live off 60. You're just, just you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And just clean up the stinking mess. And if you pay it off in one year, the interest rates don't matter. They're irrelevant because they don't there's no actual monetary creation by the interest rate. That doesn't create any actual money. If you're gonna, if you're gonna keep it around like a pet for five years. Now we worry about interest rates, but yeah, you need to get in attack zone. You are being classic engineer. You're over analyzing. Hit this with an atom bomb between the eyes. Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Patrick and Tiffany are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

[Caller]

Oh, we're fired up.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

So excited to be here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome. Well, good to have you. Where do you live?

[Caller]

We live in Rock Springs, Wyoming.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fun. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you guys paid off?

[Caller]

$506,700.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. And how long did this take?

[Caller]

93 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

93 months. And your range of income during that time?

[Caller]

We started at 190,000 and we're now at 300,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. What do you all do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm a maintenance manager in the oil and gas industry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, okay.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yep. And I'm in health care.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for y'.

[Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done. So I'm guessing with that period of time and that amount of money you paid off your house.

[Caller]

You got it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Look at that. Weird people.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

A hundred percent debt free.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, you guys. So what's this house worth?

[Caller]

About 650.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, cool. And how much in your retirement nest egg?

[Caller]

About 525.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you broke the baby steps. Millionaires barrier.

[Caller]

We got her.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're in there. I like it. How old are you? Two?

[Caller]

Both just turned four or just turned 40 about a month ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're 40 year old millionaires in Wyoming, paid for house. The retirement is underway. You're making 300 grand. Took 93 months to get the house and everything paid off. So how'd you get connected to Ramsey? What's your Ramsey story?

[Caller]

So Christmas of 2017, my dad and stepmom, they always get their kids theme gifts. And that year was finance books. So I received Financial Peace Revisited by Dave Ramsey. I'd never heard of you A day in life, My life. So January cracked the book, started reading it, and man, it just made sense, you know, you weren't trying to sell me anything. You were just laying things out. I knew my sister got another book by Dave Ramsey, and it was the total money makeover. So I asked her, hey, can I borrow that book? She said, oh, yeah, I'm not going to read that. So I read that in like a week. And there's the plan. It's just laid out and. And man, I couldn't believe it. I'm just so excited. So I approached Tiffany and she was a little reticent, but took her a little bit to get on board. And March 1, 2018, we started the plan. From reading the book, I found out you had a radio show. Started listening to that. And I remember the very first week I was listening, a couple from Connecticut called in with the Debt Free Scream. And I was just like, what is this? I was so confused, but continued to listen to the show. And about three weeks, I in listened to a Debt Free Scream. And afterwards you said, Proverbs 22:7, the rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender. And you repeated the borrower is slave to the lender, like three times. And man, it hit me like a ton of bricks. It took my breath away. And I was just. I got so angry because I didn't want to be a slave and I never realized I was. And so from that point forward, we were on fire. Started coordinating fpu. I took financial coach master training and just. Man, we've just eat, slept, and breathed this stuff in. It's an amazing program, and I just love what it can do for people. I never thought in a million years I'd be in this financial position where I am today. And I'm just so grateful for your teachings and just want to spread the word to everybody and everybody that I meet. You know, it's always. I always make sure it comes up in conversation because I just. I can't believe what this has done for us. It's been amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks. Well, Tiffany, when we're through with your husband, we'll send him back.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Good gracious.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep, it is. It's a.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

It's a daily conversation where we live, for sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

The body snatchers have come. Yeah.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

How did you get into it? How did. How did. How did you intersect through all of this? So he sat me down and was like, hey, I want to do this. And I said, hold on, you're Putting me on a budget because you spend

[Caller]

a lot of money.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

And so he was like, just give me three months, three months. And so I said, okay. So we went through our first 90 days and after that, like, I found that I wasn't affect, you know, like I wasn't affected much. I was still doing what I was doing. Cause I'm not the spender of the family. So it didn't really hit me much. So it was, was like, hey, we're going to do this and put. You're going to put yourself on a budget. That's cool. And then it just kind of worked out. And you know, there were a couple kinks at the beginning and trying to figure out how, because we did. We kept a pencil box in our closet with envelopes that said gas money and grocery money. And I can tell you I was very frustrated the first or second time I was out needing gas and had to go home to get money to

[Caller]

go back to the gas station.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

But I mean, slight adjustment and it's worked out really, really well for us and it's got us through some really, really hard, hard times in our family. And we're just very, very grateful that he was turned on to you guys.

[Caller]

Yeah. Lived a lot of life in eight years. You know, we've. Carlie was one our daughter when we started the program. Our son was born March 20, 2020, or March 14, 2020. About eight months in, he was diagnosed with a real aggressive form of leukemia. Oh no. You know, it's been a 10 month battle and unfortunately he lost his battle in September of 2021. But he was such a, such a battler and we miss him, but wow. You know, so we've been through a lot, but this, you know, was a good distraction after that. Just something to pour into and to keep focused and keep going, you know, I've dreamt of this moment for eight years.

I've.

Ever since I heard the first one, it's like, man, we're gonna get there, we're gonna do it and we're here.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't believe the heartbreak that goes with the process. So the highs are high and the lows are low.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, it's very real and we've helped them both. Yeah. It makes us real bittersweet and all those words, right?

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

Thanks.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm so happy for you. I'm so proud of you.

[Caller]

Thanks.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I know you brought family with you. I met the parents a minute ago. They're happy and cheerful, cheering, you On. So who were your best cheerleaders? Who were your best cheerleaders? The one that gave you the book. Yeah.

[Caller]

I think they never thought I'd ever, you know, take it to extremes, obviously.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did your sister ever come around?

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That's what I was gonna ask.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not yet.

[Caller]

Not yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not yet.

[Caller]

Okay. They're Dave ish, I think.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

But someday they'll get there, they'll start seeing it, what your life looks like and it'll happen.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Now it's just amazing. You know, we spent the past eight years getting out of debt and now we're excited to be able to live and give and so what's the first

[Dave Ramsey]

big thing you're going to do to celebrate with all this money? Because you're killing it, man.

[Caller]

Well, we went to Legoland last week.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Woo.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

What a celebration, right? We get out of debt and go to Legoland.

[Caller]

Hey.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

So exciting.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's all about who wants to go.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

We told our daughter once we hit this milestone she could pick her on

[Dave Ramsey]

vacation and she did so.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

She did so often.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's the one you're going to do? What's your next vacation?

[Caller]

We want to do maybe go on some cruises. We did one for our 10th anniversary and that was really fun. I think we'd like to do a couple of them. Go to the Caribbean.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

So good. Yeah. You live like no one else. Later you can live and give like no one else. You're 40 year old millionaires. Wow. And 100 debt free. You ever think you'd say that?

[Caller]

No.

No, not even close.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Nope.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. I'm so proud of you. Way to go. And I know the family is all kidding aside. They're beaming when I came out there and met them a while ago. So absolutely incredible. So very well done you guys. All right, you're a coach and Tiffany, you're on board and partner in this whole thing. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? And being a millionaire by the time you're 40?

[Caller]

You know, the key, like they always say, is definitely the budget. But I think you get that fire in your belly, you get that anger and that drop and you can change and do anything. So I think you just gotta get mad enough and you'll change. Just like you always say, what you focus on is what you win at. And that's so true. Simple advice, but it works.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen. So nine years grinding it. Was it worth it?

[Caller]

Oh yes, absolutely worth it. Yeah. Anybody listening to this? Just do it, like Dave always says, just start, just go. And man, it's amazing what it'll do for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't argue with the fact it worked.

[Caller]

Way to go. Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you worked. Worked your tail end off. All right, bring Ms. Carly up. You said she's nine?

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Come on, Ms. Carly, you join in on the debt free scream. Way to go. Legoland. I love it. That's a good suggestion. Well done. All right, Patrick and Tiffany and Carly from Wyoming. What was your son's name?

[Caller]

Paxton.

[Dave Ramsey]

And paxton. 100% debt free house and everything. Baby steps. Millionaires by the time they're 40. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Caller]

Three, two, one.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

We're debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is how it works, boys and girls. Watch them. This is it. It.

[Caller]

When I talk to people on The Ramsey Show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing. Not having a plan. They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. Money. And guys, that is so normal. But it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you call the show and it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions and get your plan today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 14:30. A heart at peace gives life to the body, but envy rots the bones. Theodore Roosevelt said, I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life. I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well. Hmm. He would. He would. That's cool. Very neat. Jeff's in Austin, Texas. Hi, Jeff. How are you?

[Caller]

Are you good?

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Not much. So this call is mainly about my mother. She is on limited income. She makes about 1600amonth from Social Security, and she hasn't made any afterlife plans. And we went to the funeral home recently and they quoted us about 25 to $26,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry.

[Caller]

It gets better.

Better.

So obviously, you know, we don't have that kind of money. So they, they said, well, we could do this on a payment plan. We. $600 for the next five years of your life. And I don't even know. Yeah, I don't even know if my mom has that amount of time. So I, I, I'm torn because these

are her less wish.

Well, that's why I called in. I wanted to hear your opinion.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I mean, I. Listen, I love people in my life, but the deal is it's not her. She doesn't have any money. Right?

[Caller]

She does not have any money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so she's not talking about paying for this. She's asking you to pay for this.

[Caller]

Well, she did. She doesn't put it that way. She hasn't explicitly asked for it, but in a way, yeah, she does.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I mean that's, that's the expectation. Like she's not got a house that's going to be sold that pays for it.

[Caller]

She does own her house. It's, it's in pretty bad shape though. And honestly I don't know what kind of money we're going to be able to get out of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're going to get 25,000 out of it.

[Caller]

I hope so.

I hope at least that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, if she wants to spend her money on her funeral, I don't mind that.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't do that. But I'm not going to pay for it out of my pocket if I'm you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think that's absurd. I think she got sold by a salesman.

[Caller]

Yeah, they wanted, they wanted $400 for

a video that they were going to make with some of her pictures. Like there was a bunch of add ons and ridiculous things that they wanted to throw in there.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Mom, you did not live your life in a Mercedes and you shouldn't die in a Mercedes.

[Caller]

And if she doesn't want to sell her home, then that's just.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no. When she dies, it's no question. Okay, so she does sell the home.

[Caller]

So I would pay for it up front and then.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no. You don't prepay a funeral ever. You pre plan a funeral, but you never prepay a funeral.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

You're saying that it's going to take some time from the time that she passes to get the money from the sale of the house.

[Caller]

It's going to take a whole lot of time because her house is in horrible condition. So it's going to take over a year probably to get the money.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

And you're saying how long?

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't know that you could auction it the next weekend.

[Caller]

I mean, yeah, that's true, because it's junky.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just have an auctioneer come out and sell the stupid thing and pay for the funeral. But I really would advise her to spend money on the funeral appropriate to her situation. There's no gain spiritually in what you spend on a funeral.

[Caller]

Funeral.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no gain for the people that are left behind that are grieving over what you spend for a funeral. And so. No, I really. I think she got sold.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think that, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you. Matter of fact, I would use a completely different funeral operator. I think this person's a slickster.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I don't think if I'm. If I own that funeral home, I don't sell that lady to a $25,000 package because this lady broke. And so I'm not. And asking you to put it on payments. I'm not doing business with this guy, okay? I would go to a different funeral home and say I want the cheaper casket. You can buy a casket at Costco. You know that.

[Caller]

Yes, I do absolutely know that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they're what, 1300 bucks or something? I saw it the other day. I couldn't believe it.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Costco's got freaking everything. And if you buy six, you get a deal. No, I'm keeping.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

This is getting worse and worse. But truly, the average funeral cost is somewhere between $7,800 and $8,500.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the average nationally.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah, that's the average.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's the average including rich people.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Exactly. That's. Thank you, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

So it just gives you a clear indicator that you are being.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would set a budget of five to six grand if I were her. If I'm you, I'd be willing to pay that and be reimbursed when the house sells. I would not. And that's after. After she dies. You there?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm here. I'm here. Yes.

That. It dropped.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's okay. So after she dies, we'll talk the funeral home and see how long you can wait to pay the bill. A lot of times they'll wait till the estate gets some stuff cleaned up. There may be a little bit of money in her checking or whatever. And you. You should have your emergency fund in place. And if you want to pay the six grand under the condition you're going to be reimbursed when the house sells, that's fine. I wouldn't do any more than that. That's plenty. Here And I wouldn't do business with the people you did that to because that just creeps me out.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That's such. You're 100% right. That is such a hard conversation to have. That sounds like a terrible conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but I mean, she can choose to do otherwise. Yeah, she can choose, but she doesn't have the choice to prepay it because she doesn't have any money. Prepaying a funeral, by the way, people, is really dumb. Never prepay a funeral. Funeral. Pre plan your funeral. That's wonderful. That's a gift to your loved ones.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

You mean like buying the burial plots ahead of time?

[Dave Ramsey]

If you want to buy the burial plot, pick the casket, pick out how the service, write everything down how you want it to go, and set the budget on it. And they can just write the checks when you die, then that's a gift. People that are grieving don't have to make decisions.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah, it's already been done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did mom want the Chevrolet coffin or did she want the Mercedes coffin? I don't know about Mom. What would mom really want? Oh, brother. And write it all down. Don't bury me in the diamond. Wear it. You know, whatever. Write it all down. Tell people that way when they're grieving. It's all planned. But do not write a check to the funeral home. Maybe by the plots, if you want to do that. But do not write a check prepaying the funeral. The funeral home. Because from that point forward, you make zero return on your money except for the inflation rate of a funeral, which is about the normal inflation rate, about 4 or 5%. So you're making nothing on your money. Money. Funeral home's got your money for what, five, 10, 15, 20 years? I don't know. That's a good point. And don't prepay. Just pay it when they pre plan it is fine. So I would say, mom, here's what I suggest. I love you. I think a $6,000 funeral is fine. The average funeral in America is seven. And you don't have any money. And I got to pay it when you die. And it's got to be reimbursed out of the house. And I need to see the will that says that. And we can set all that up. And I'll go to a different funeral home with you and we can pick out everything and plan it. And you're going to be just fine. And I'm going to make sure you're taken care of with dignity. And we will all be sad either way. Please don't spend the last $25,000 you have on this earth for a funeral home to have a profit.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Now does your thought process on that, does that play out the same if you're like, if you're well, healthy. The, the opportunity cost on them holding

[Dave Ramsey]

that money for sure. Never prepay. I haven't prepaid. I don't recommend you prepay. If you want to buy the plot, that's fine. But don't prepay a funeral. It's the worst deal ever. The younger you are, the dumber the deal is.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Well, yeah, because then they're holding opportunity

[Dave Ramsey]

cost on that money. Yeah. I mean, if you took $6,000 that you're in your 30, what's that going to be? It's going to be three.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah, 600,000 bucks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, six or $700,000 if it were in invested.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That's a good point.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know, what are you, King Tut? I mean, who needs a seven hundred thousand dollar funeral? I mean, come on. Okay, so no, you don't need that funeral. That's, that's a bad deal. No, you just, you opportunity costs a big deal on this stuff. And this is how these people make a living.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

And they do really well. The margins are, as you might guess based on this discussion, pretty incredible.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Yeah. Oh boy. Yeah, because he was about to get sold.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man, Mama done got. Mama. Mama done signed up for the whole thing for her son to pay $600 a month for five. Just a measly five years easy. 60 payments.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

Oh boy. Oh boy.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's like a car payment on a casket.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

It's a vehicle. A hearse.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can't even drive it. Can't even drive it.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

We're making too many jokes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, you gotta have some fun with this stuff.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

You do. I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

People are dying everywhere.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

We gotta have some fun.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

So we've learned something valuable here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't prepay your funeral. And if you want to pay a ridiculous sum for your funeral, you need to have that ridiculous sum in the bank. Don't ask your loved ones to pay for that. That's unfair. That is not right, Mom. You should not be doing that. And the funeral home sales guy ought to be smack silly. That's just irresponsible at a minimum. Immoral at a maximum. Maximum. And so don't sell people stuff they can't afford people. It's not a, it's not a good way to make a living. You should make a living. Otherwise you should do something completely different from that. So, wow, interesting question.

[Jade Washall Ramsey]

I'VE had that question a while.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, very fun. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace. Peace. Christ Jesus.