Don’t Let Other People’s Chaos Wreck Your Progress

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Don’t Let Other People’s Chaos Wreck Your Progress"

Release Date: June 9, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network (Featuring Dr. John DeLoney and Jade Warshaw)

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Overview

In the episode titled "Don’t Let Other People’s Chaos Wreck Your Progress," Dr. John DeLoney and Jade Warshaw address a series of listener calls that revolve around managing personal finances amidst external turmoil. The primary focus is on maintaining financial stability and personal growth despite the chaotic situations that may arise from relationships, unexpected debts, or financial mismanagement by loved ones.

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1. Balancing Relationships and Finances

Caller: Jack from Dayton
Timestamp: [00:28] – [02:05]

Situation:
Jack discusses his decision to become a stay-at-home fiancé after leaving a high-stress job to support his partner financially. He expresses concerns about the reduction in income and its impact on their relationship and personal fulfillment.

Key Points:

• Transitioning from dual incomes to a single-income household can strain personal identity and purpose.
• It’s essential to find personal fulfillment beyond financial contributions to the household.

Notable Quote:
"I almost feel like your wife making this money is impeding you because you're not sinking your teeth into something that gives you purpose." — Dr. John DeLoney ([04:09])

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2. Inherited Funds and Debt Repayment

Caller: Tajay from Houston
Timestamp: [10:34] – [17:07]

Situation:
Tajay inherited $4,000 from a stock discovered in his late mother's estate and seeks advice on whether to invest the money or use it to accelerate his debt snowball.

Key Points:

• Prioritizing debt repayment can provide financial freedom faster.
• Consult a tax professional before liquidating inherited assets to understand tax implications.

Notable Quote:
"I would definitely do that 100% now... I would just talk with your tax professional." — Dr. John DeLoney ([11:28])

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3. Managing Family-Related Debt and HELOCs

Caller: Amanda from Tampa, Florida
Timestamp: [23:19] – [32:43]

Situation:
Amanda reveals that her parents took out a Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC) to cover unexpected car repairs and lost her job. She is now responsible for repaying her portion of the $11,500 debt and grapples with the implications of her parents’ financial decisions.

Key Points:

• HELOCs can be risky, especially when tied to family relationships.
• Priority should be given to repaying high-interest or secured debts to avoid damaging relationships and financial stability.

Notable Quote:
"I think I would treat this like the IRS and put it at the very top and pay this off as fast as humanly possible." — Caller ([24:12])

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4. Partnership Issues and Business Fraud

Caller: Joshua from New York
Timestamp: [32:55] – [40:18]

Situation:
Joshua describes escalating trust issues with his business co-founder, including fraudulent activities such as taking funds for personal use and altering operating agreements without his consent. He seeks guidance on selling his shares and escaping the toxic partnership.

Key Points:

• Legal intervention and professional evaluations are crucial in cases of business fraud.
• Ensuring fair market value and proper legal documentation protects personal and business interests.

Notable Quote:
"What can we do to prevent this catastrophe?" — Joshua ([50:09])

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5. Protecting Elderly Parents from Financial Exploitation

Caller: Stacy from Atlanta, Georgia
Timestamp: [44:08] – [53:27]

Situation:
Stacy shares concerns about her mother-in-law draining her father's retirement accounts and mismanaging finances, leading to potential future financial burdens on the family. She contemplates legal conservatorship to protect her parents' assets.

Key Points:

• Elder financial abuse is a serious issue that may require legal intervention.
• Establishing power of attorney early can prevent financial exploitation.

Notable Quote:
"If you feel the need to swoop in, you can swoop in, but those are choices. It's not, it's not something you must do." — Dr. John DeLoney ([49:44])

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6. Career Uncertainty and Retirement Planning

Caller: Megan from Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Timestamp: [66:12] – [84:53]

Situation:
Megan expresses anxiety over the future of her career as a software engineer due to advancements in AI. With limited retirement savings and upcoming college expenses for her daughters, she seeks advice on balancing retirement contributions and college funding.

Key Points:

• Diversifying income sources and considering entrepreneurial ventures can mitigate career uncertainties.
• Maintaining consistent retirement contributions is crucial despite other financial priorities.
• Utilizing education calculators helps in planning for future college expenses.

Notable Quote:
"You are going to reach an age where you cannot work regardless. So retirement is very important." — Dr. John DeLoney ([72:52])

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7. Estate Planning and Conditional Inheritance

Caller: Ken from Indiana
Timestamp: [76:30] – [85:04]

Situation:
Ken seeks advice on his will, intending to leave assets to his spouse and conditionally to his children based on their debt-free status. He is concerned about whether these conditions are reasonable.

Key Points:

• Conditional inheritances can motivate responsible financial behavior but may also strain family relationships.
• The size of the inheritance and specific conditions need careful consideration to balance fairness and practicality.

Notable Quote:
"If it's $100 million or $10 million, then you can kill a kid." — Caller ([77:46])

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8. Navigating Retirement Moves and Financial Security

Caller: Susan from New Brunswick, New Jersey
Timestamp: [83:52] – [114:37]

Situation:
Susan, a 71-year-old widow with multiple financial sources, struggles to balance her inheritance with ongoing expenses and potential future care needs. She seeks guidance on whether to gift money to her children or safeguard it for her future needs.

Key Points:

• Prioritizing personal financial security and future care is essential before distributing assets.
• Establishing a clear plan for retirement and potential healthcare costs can prevent financial strain on both the individual and their family.

Notable Quote:
"You don't want to give them to move you into one of their back bedrooms when you're 86." — Caller ([84:25])

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9. Debt Repayment Success Story

Caller: Tim from Dallas, Texas
Timestamp: [106:37] – [127:07]

Situation:
Tim shares his journey of paying off $333,000 in debts, including mortgages and student loans, within nearly six years. His story highlights the effectiveness of disciplined budgeting and financial planning.

Key Points:

• Consistent budgeting and prioritizing debt repayment can lead to significant financial milestones.
• Personal accountability and leveraging community support are vital components of financial success.

Notable Quote:
"I'm debt free." — Tim ([115:34])

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Key Takeaways

1. Maintain Personal Purpose: Financial contributions are essential, but personal fulfillment and purpose should not be neglected, especially when transitioning to single-income households.

2. Prioritize Debt Repayment: Use inherited funds and extra income to accelerate debt repayment, ensuring financial freedom and reducing stress.

3. Guard Against Financial Exploitation: Establish legal safeguards like power of attorney to protect elderly parents from financial abuse.

4. Adapt to Career Changes: Diversify income sources and consider entrepreneurial ventures to counteract career uncertainties due to technological advancements.

5. Strategize Estate Planning: When setting up wills, balance conditional inheritances to encourage financial responsibility while maintaining family harmony.

6. Secure Retirement First: Prioritize retirement savings to ensure long-term financial security, especially when facing potential career changes or job losses.

7. Learn from Success Stories: Emulate disciplined budgeting and debt repayment strategies to achieve financial milestones, as demonstrated by caller Tim.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Ramsey Show provides invaluable insights into navigating financial chaos brought by external factors such as relationships, family dynamics, career uncertainties, and unexpected debts. Dr. John DeLoney and Jade Warshaw offer practical advice grounded in the Ramsey principles, emphasizing the importance of maintaining personal financial integrity, prioritizing debt repayment, and safeguarding one’s financial future against unforeseen challenges.

Remember:
"Those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not be faint." — Isaiah 40:31 ([117:07])

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Resources Mentioned:

• EveryDollar App: Start budgeting for free at everydollar.com
• Zander Insurance: Find term life insurance options at zander.com
• BetterHelp: Access online therapy at betterhelp.com
• Boost Mobile: Affordable mobile plans at boostmobile.com
• Laurel Road: Refinance options at LaurelRoad.com
• Timothy Plan: Biblically responsible investing at timothyplan.com
• Churchill Mortgage: Trusted home financing at churchillmortgage.com
• SmartVestor Program: Connect with financial advisors at ramseysolutions.com/smartvestor
• Ramsey 101 YouTube Playlist: Beginner’s guide to the Ramsey Plan at YouTube Link

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Stay Connected:

For more personalized advice and to join the community striving for financial peace, visit www.ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Jade Warshaw]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Start budgeting for free today. From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney, taking calls about your life, your money all afternoon. The number is 888-255-2225. That's what gets you on the line. All right, John, let's get into it.

[Caller]

Let's go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let's get involved. We got Jack in Dayton. What's up, Jack?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, how's it going?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Doing good.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, so I have a question. So my current fiance and I, we both had jobs for quite some time. I actually quit my job beginning of January just because of the stress level that we had with it and the hours working. She has an odd hour job and we just decided that for a relationship standpoint, it would be better off if I just be the stay at home person where she continues working where she has a higher salary.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So.

[Caller]

Hold up, hold up. Do you have kids together?

[Jade Warshaw]

We do not have kids together. We're not really planning on having kids. We do have three dogs that I.

[Caller]

So what does the stay at home guy do?

[Jade Warshaw]

So essentially I just take care of all the household things that got to be done, but that's essentially about it. I do own a portion of a business now that I have bought into. So I do attend to that business. Not on a daily basis. I'm almost like a solid investor. So I'm there every so often. But I don't essentially have a full time job as of right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's the thing that makes you be like, yes, like when I'm doing this thing, I am my happiest.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think where I'm at right now is where I'm happy. I'm going to say it's definitely not the salary that I used to bring home at all. It's more of a little passive investment type of deal. But I do enjoy being here and.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know, the business is growing.

[Caller]

But.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, it's kind of tough where it's, you know, you go from a pretty high salary to a smaller salary and you're not essentially working. But I mean, it is better on a relationship. But I'm trying to figure out, you know, based on financial sample where we're at, if this is a good thing or if I should go back to work as a full time, you know.

[Caller]

Employee of a different, a different area.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I feel like it's all about your. I think it's all about the why and the plan to get to the why. Right. So if you're. If you didn't say, what kind of business is it? What is it?

[Jade Warshaw]

The business that I'm in is actually a car related business. So I used to work at a car dealership. It was a little bit too stressful for me when the position that I was in.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Took on a lot of hours.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So right now I'm in a business.

[Jade Warshaw]

Where we do, like, vehicle wraps. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. We do all customization type of things.

[Caller]

You don't. You just wrote a chance.

[Jade Warshaw]

Interested in.

[Caller]

You don't do anything. You just wrote a check.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Investor.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, that is. That is correct.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That is correct.

[Jade Warshaw]

I do come here and do enjoy this stuff. So I do help out the guys here from time to time.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's the only part that. That's the only part that I. I'm at. Because don't get me wrong, I almost feel like your wife making this money.

[Caller]

Girlfriend. It's still girlfriend.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Girlfriend. Yeah, that's right. It says wife on my screen. Your girlfriend making this money. I. I almost feel like it's crippling you in a way or it's like impeding you because it's like, oh, this is great. This can keep our house going. I don't really have to get serious about what it is that you want to do, because I do think there's something that makes everybody tick and there's something that we want to pour all of our efforts into. And while I think it's really cool that you're an investor in this, I. You're like a young guy. I feel like you need something to sink your teeth into on a daily basis. And I'm just not. I'm not judging you. I'm just not sure taking care of three dogs and checking up on the fellas every now and then, is it? And I don't want you to feel like you don't have a purpose.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's. That's the word. And listen, Jack, I. I won't pick on you as much as I'll just tell you the data. The data says that especially men have to have a purpose, a thing they go towards or every part of your health, your physical health, your emotional health, your relational health goes down the toilet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And there's also some data that suggests that women want a equal or above financial partner. And the more money women make, the more the pressure gets put on that relationship. And it's. It's. Nobody wants that, but it just is, isn't, is. And now that's not generalizable. That's not every couple. That's just what the data tells me. How much does she make?

[Jade Warshaw]

She currently makes 470.

[Caller]

Okay, so. So you don't need the finances. What is she. How has she experienced you as a guy who went from having a purpose and forget the salary, forget the hours worked. You got up and went and were grinding it out. Doing a thing to a guy that literally does nothing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Honestly, it was. It was a huge decision on her part. I did not want to leave the job, but it was straining our relationship to the point where she said, it's either the job or it's me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So. Okay. I don't want to ruin the relationship.

[Caller]

You went from 60 to. You went from 100 miles an hour to zero.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Yeah. Straight stop.

[Caller]

Yeah. And so if you told me, like, my purpose is keeping this house running. I want to make sure I do chores every day. I make sure this house is clean. And that's not a typical gender role. It's a general reversal. But it's all good. That's how we worked it out in our house. I'd high five you. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like, that's essentially. That's essentially what I do on a daily basis is just literally just cleaning, you know, cooking, whatever I could do in the house to make her life and our lives easier when she gets off of work. Because, again.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, but that's not a whole year.

[Jade Warshaw]

But it's not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know what I mean? Like, you do that, and it's. It's 11:30, and you're like, all right, what am I. What am I going to do next? I just wonder. I wonder if. How can I say this? I want to know more about what it was about that job that was tearing you guys apart. Was it the hours? Was it who you were when you got home? Was it. Was it just the job? Or was it. Do you know what I'm saying? And I'm just wondering if those were things that could have been mitigated without you stopping working, if that makes sense. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I think.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think the big one was the job followed me around. There was no disconnect from the place. It was. It was always there.

[Caller]

It was always.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And was that by choice, or was that the job must be that way? Or were those things you could change?

[Jade Warshaw]

Unfortunately, there weren't things that I can change as much as I did try to change them. It was just something that I was not able to change and kind of dig myself out of the hole that I was in as. As much As I tried, as many hours as I grinded during the day, it still follow me.

[Caller]

You know, I've been there. I was on call 24 7, 365 for almost 20 years. I get that. And I also get like sitting down with your spouse, with my wife, and saying, hey, this is unsustainable. Now we got little kids. Like, I'm watching my husband die. Right. I get that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

But going from that to zero, it creates its own counter problem. Right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And then be honest. Are you starting to get listless? You've been doing this since January. Are you starting to like, like you're halfway through a year? Are you starting to just feel unsettled or do you like just staying home doing nothing?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I, I generally hate it. I haven't, I've not, not worked since the age of 16. This is the longest period I've ever had in my entire life where I have not actually worked.

[Caller]

So what do you want to do? And again, work is important. I think, I think people are designed to work. And I think that's why everybody went crazy during COVID One of the reasons. But what do you want to do, man?

[Jade Warshaw]

Man, I, I think I just, you know, I think I am enjoying really what, what I've gotten myself into here and this opportunity that I got. So I really want to po heart and time into this, this place.

[Caller]

Can you get hired there as an employee too?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, it sounds like. Because I feel I hear you talking out of both sides of your mouth in the way that you're saying. I'm unhappy that I'm not doing much, but I am happy with the investment that I've made. It just seems like you need to spend a lot more time there and see if you can be one of the guys that's working on the wraps on these cars, not just investing your money in writing checks.

[Caller]

The question is, do I need to work? Yes. Every single person needs to have a purpose. Doesn't have to have a paycheck to. It doesn't have to be 24 hours, 365. But everyone has to have a purpose. Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And they've been around for over 95.

[Jade Warshaw]

Years, so you know they'll be there.

[Dr. John Deloney]

When you need them.

[Jade Warshaw]

Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Back to the phone lines we go. Taje is in Houston. Houston, Texas. What's up, Tajay?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi. I'm so excited to be on the show today. My name is Tajay. I'm 27, I'm at 28, and I live in Houston. I wanted to ask a quick question. My mom passed away in 2009 and I was recently contacted by a lawyer regarding her estate. They found a stock that no one knew about, and it was through United Healthcare and it's managed through Fidelity. The funds have been dispersed. They said we needed to create a Fidelity account between my brother, her husband, and my share is about 4k. I wanted to know if I should keep it invested or if I should withdraw it to pay it towards my debt snowball. And I really don't want to make like same financial mistakes that I've made in the past. So I'm trying to get the right advice.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, it's non retirement funds. It's just single stocks, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I would definitely do that 100% now. I mean, you're gonna have to pay a little bit of taxes on it. I don't know how they're gonna treat the basis and like, with the growth since it's inherited. But I would, you know, just talk with your tax professional on that. But Yeah, I would 100% liquidate this to clear out your debt. What is your debt?

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, So I have 29,000 in debt, two credit cards, four student loans, one personal loan. I am on track to be debt free by October.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

I share. I do want to share a few of my money, like mistakes because I'm just, I'm very motivated, but I'm also a little fearful that I'm gonna, like, make the mistake again. I've already committed to saying I'm not living in debt anymore. So two years ago, I actually sold my car when I first heard about Dave Ramsey. And I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna trust God and just believe I'm gonna get around Houston without a car. So I didn't have a car for two years and nine months last October, my church actually bought me a car. No car payment.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Holy smokes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I didn't, I didn't have a job. Well, I left my job at the time and this was my really big money mistake is I pulled for my retirement and I, you know, had to pay the taxes on that and everything. But now I'm back on track. You know, I'm actually at a new school. I'm making a higher salary, so with a stipend of $8,000 from that school, it's about 72,000 a year. And then. Yeah, so that's really like, I'm getting back on track, so I just really want to stay on track, you know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

To one, one of the things that I have found in this journey, this financial journey is yeah, when you make mistakes early, which I did as well. When you do start getting on track and, and you do a couple of things right and then you do something wrong again, and then you could do a couple more things right, like a, you're gonna make mistakes because this is a whole, it's like a whole university. You could get a four year degree just in learning how manage your money, right? Like you learn and you hear investing, you hear it once, it doesn't stick, you need to hear it again and again. Again, right? And there's always these little pieces that seem to fall through the cracks and you're like, oh crap, if I had realized that, I wouldn't have done that. And, and that's how you learn, right, is you make mistakes. I always like to call mistakes. Really, they're just research, right. So that's what it is. But I do find that the more you walk this journey, the more you can start trusting yourself that you will try, you will make the right choices, and that it's kind of like you build that trust with yourself. Every time you make a good choice, it's like, hey, I do have the capacity to handle my money well. And every time that you set a goal and you stick to the goal or you set a boundary for what your lifestyle is going to be and you stick to it, that's you building that trust with yourself that you can say, hey, if I say I'm not going to use my credit card. I trust myself that I'm not going to use it if I say that I can stick to this budget, and that is. That is what's happening. So just give it time. You're doing so so. And I think that you're just building that you're building trust with yourself.

[Caller]

Tasha, thank you. You said you had 28,000 in the hole.

[Jade Warshaw]

29,000.

[Caller]

29,000. And so let's. Let's say you take this 4,000 bucks, and I know you have to pay a little bit tax on it, but let's say you get it down to 25,000, right. You make 72.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. And I have side hustle doing babysitting, so it's an extra thousand a month. So in total, like, for the year, it's 84,000.

[Caller]

84,000. You're done in October?

[Jade Warshaw]

I'll be done in October. I did all the math.

[Caller]

Amazing. Will you call in the show and let us scream and cheer for you?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, I will. I'm actually planning to come out there August because I don't know if you guys heard a no big deal. And, like, their holy smoke fest is around, like, early August, so I'm going to come and visit on Friday to the actual studio.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Yay. I hope I'm here, and I hope we get to meet you. Hey, do you have every dollar? I do.

[Jade Warshaw]

I have the premium version, everything. I'm very serious.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You got it all.

[Jade Warshaw]

Part of my life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Listen, I'm trying to think of some gifts we can give you.

[Caller]

Where in Houston do you live?

[Jade Warshaw]

I do have one more question. Should I focus on rebuilding my retirement since, like, I got a letter saying that I can buy back, you know, what I, like, reinvest. I don't know the correct terms, but should I. Should that be my next goal?

[Caller]

No, Stay on the path.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's a goal for the future. John is right. It's a goal for the future. You should want to invest, but now's not quite the time. So let that want in, that wish that I could be investing right now drive you to get out of this super duper fast. Because right now, I mean, you know, the baby steps. You're on baby step two. So just ride that out and then build up. Because remember what caused you to borrow from your 401k the first time, Right? It was the fact you had this debt laying around, and it's the fact that you did not have three to six months of expenses. Right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So let's build that foundation through baby step two and baby step three, so that when you do get to baby step four, you can invest 15%, which is far more than you'd be able to now. And you'll never have to touch it again because you've created that insurance on that investment through your Baby Step three emergency fund. So that's the way that this works.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Awesome.

[Caller]

Hey, Tajay, when did your mom pass away?

[Jade Warshaw]

In 2009.

[Caller]

Oh, so a long time ago, huh?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah, it's been a while. But they just. And it was so crazy. I really felt like it was God, because when I said, I'm going to get serious about this debt, and I, like, got the premium, I legit got a letter in the mail saying we found this estate. Like, it was crazy. I was like, okay. Like, okay, let's. Let's get to it. So I wanted to call and make sure that, you know, I was just doing right with the funds.

[Caller]

That's awesome. The number of times I hear that story that I was going to be done in October and then I found this. Or my boss called me in and said, we didn't pay you enough. Or. It's, it's, it's. It's happened so many times that it's not a coincidence. It happened for us.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Caller]

Like, the university called my wife and I was like, oh, we forgot. Like, we did this thing. We owe you this much money for the summer. And it paid off every. It was a while. It happens so often.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I. I used to hear, back in the day, before, long before I worked at Ramsey, I used to just listen to Dave on the radio and he used to say, you know, obviously what we teach here is God's and Grandma's ways of handling money. And a lot of what we teach is biblically based. And Dave used to say, you know, when you start following this plan, he'd say, you get on a moving sidewalk, like the thing at the airport where you don't have, you know, and it is like that. And I truly, truly believe that because it's based on biblical principles. I'll say this till the cows come home, like, it's not God's will that we're up here in debt and just slaves to a lender. That's not what he wants for us. He's a. He's about freedom. Like, freedom is all encompassing. So that includes your money. And I do believe that when you start seeking that out, that's you getting in line with the way I think that it should be. I'm just Telling you my opinion. And when you start seeking that out, it's like, hey, you're trying to do this. Okay, I can help that. Like, I can bless that. Like, I can help you with that. And I used to pray all the time. I'd be like, God, if you give the opportunity, like, I'll work because I'm trying to get out of debt up in here. And it's just like, stuff would just present itself. Yeah, yeah, it just. And. And that's. I think that's really the power of this plan. When you really do commit to it, when you really are open to finding solutions, you're open to work. It's like that. That saying, whatever you look for, you find. Right.

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so when you start looking, man, it presents itself as there.

[Caller]

There's jobs everywhere, there's work everywhere. And sometimes it's dollars, sometimes it's nickel and dimes, but it shows up in weird ways.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And sometimes it's people. Yeah, like the people that were placed in our life during that time. We were trying to grow a business at the time, and it was just. I can look back now and say, man, they were here for a season to provide opportunities so that we could get to this goal and, you know, the rest is history. But, yeah, don't. Don't count yourself out. Like, just keep going. And then on the other side of that, John, there is the part that Murphy comes right always. So it's the opposite. You do experience that, where it's like, man, all I'm trying to do is.

[Caller]

Get baby step one, Tire blows up, brakes go up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you will experience. Experience that gamut. I'm not here to make it seem like it's going to be like rainbows and butterflies. Butterflies, kittens. Like, there's definitely some junkyard dogs that come in as well. So the point is, the journey is the journey. Enjoy it. When you're riding high, ride high. And when the tough stuff comes, just lock in and anchor in and know that, you know, it's only for a little while, and the good stuff will come on the other side.

[Caller]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. My friends. Listen, I know it feels like the world is falling apart, and I know that we're all under huge pressure to perform and to look like we're keeping it all together at the same time. Here's the statistic that blew my mind. 76% of people globally agree that mental health care can help resolve personal problems. Yet 6 out of 10 people still believe that society discourages people for asking for help. Here's the truth. Real bravery, real strength, comes when you open up about what you're carrying, how you're hurting, and learning something you can do about it so that you can be your best for yourself and for everyone else in your life. If you're feeling the weight of the world, please talk to someone. Anyone, a friend, a loved one, or yes, a therapist. I see a therapist every week. If you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, so it's affordable and convenient for your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time, easily and for no extra cost. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DeLoney.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Foreign debt or building wealth people can often forget about a really, really important step to reaching those goals, and that's insurance. Okay, so having the right coverage or having whether it be a little too, a little too much or a little too little can really impact how long it's going to take to reach those goals. So skimping on insurance, it might seem like you're saving, but the truth is when life happens is really easy to fall back into debt without a safety net. The right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet if disaster strikes. Now, in some cases, it can even save you money if you happen to be paying too much for insurance or if you have one of those bogus insurances like cancer insurance specifically, or like cell phone insurance or like warranties. You got to get the right stuff, guys. A lot of this is like gimmicky. Okay, so how do you know if you have the right coverage? Take the Coverage Checkup. It's a free online resource that creates a personalized insurance action plan that's unique to you and your situation. It makes an overly confusing topic easy to understand and gives you clear next steps. So go to ramseysolutions.com checkup to take the Coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you're listening to this on YouTube or podcast. All right, let's go to Amanda in Tampa, Florida. Hi Amanda.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's up? How can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

So my car engine went out last October and it took a few months to get my vehicle back because it actually broke down when I was evacuating for the hurricane. And in the meantime, my parents floated a rental car, and then I ended up losing my job. Oh, no. Yeah, so they said. My parents ended up helping out, and what they ended up doing was taking out a HELOC on their house to cover that and a few other things. And I wasn't aware of this until afterwards, but they're the kind of people where strings are attached. And I'm just trying to figure out if I should be debt snowballing this, which would make it the second to last debt to be paid off, or if I should be prioritizing it because it's. It's on their house.

[Caller]

That's a great question.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How much is it? How much is this HELOC?

[Jade Warshaw]

So my portion of it is 11. About 11,500.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That right there, what you just said tells me all I needed to know. 11,500. Just for kicks and giggles, tell me how much the other portion is and who got that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know because they didn't tell me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you want to know what I think? Very briefly? I think they wanted to take out heloc, and I think you gave them a good excuse to do it.

[Caller]

And I think I would treat this like the IRS and put it at the very top and pay this off as fast as humanly possible. How much are you putting towards debt every month?

[Jade Warshaw]

So I actually just found you guys a little over a month ago and I just finished Baby Step One.

[Caller]

Welcome to the cult. Welcome.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thanks.

[Caller]

We'll send you some Kool Aid in the mail.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, cool.

[Caller]

I'm just kidding. We won't, but it's cool. All right, so you just finished Baby Step One, and then what?

[Jade Warshaw]

So I have this big spreadsheet I have with all of my debts and the payments and what's owed and interest and all that.

[Caller]

How much per month? How much per month are you able to put towards debt?

[Jade Warshaw]

So I've been. They wanted me to pay about 300 monthly, so I've been actually paying them weekly because I get paid weekly.

[Caller]

Your parents.

[Jade Warshaw]

To pay back my portion of it. Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay. You know what I would do, Jade? Stop me if I'm wrong. I would go down to a local credit union and take out a loan for 11, 5. And I would write them a check. I would rather you owe credit union for that. You don't. You can't do that.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's. Yeah, that's why they ended up helping out in the first place. I'm coming out of a bad marriage where a lot of Bad decisions were made.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Then. Then let me just say this. So you. There's. There's part of this that's on you, and then there's part of it that isn't in the way of. They saw you needed help, and they said, we'll help. They chose to take out debt to do it. That wasn't your choice. You didn't say, mom, dad, go take out a heloc because I need the money and you need to risk your house for me. You didn't say that right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Correct.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How did it happen that you got the money? Did you ask for it even, or did they just see you needed it and gave it to you?

[Jade Warshaw]

I never saw the money. My dad and his friend ended up going and collecting the car because the dealership was actually avoiding us because it was four hours away. So he ended up going and collecting the car and dropping it off at one of his friends who's a mechanic, and the money went straight from them to him.

[Caller]

This sounds super shady.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It really does.

[Caller]

Is your dad trustworthy when it comes.

[Jade Warshaw]

To this kind of stuff? Yes.

[Caller]

Okay, so he. How bad would. Dude, my wife just wrecked our car, like, and it was awesome. She wasn't even drinking. She just crashed it. It was like. Just ran it down the side of a concrete pillar. And I said, she never drinks.

[Jade Warshaw]

So.

[Caller]

But the whole repair was about 11,000 bucks. Every panel had, like, for. For that kind of repair. From a buddy, from a friend I'm calling. No way.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I was not happy with it, and I haven't been back to him for services.

[Caller]

No, no, that's your dad's friend.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And. But my thing is, like, did you even know they were doing that? And did you approve it or they just up and did it?

[Jade Warshaw]

He said he was gonna help me. He wasn't specific. Yeah, that's not helping that place. Because I had no income.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And this is my theory. 3 year old, but that's my theory. That's. That's the point that I was trying to make, is if you said, hey, there's strings attached. If they put those strings on there, that's on them. You did not tell your dad to do any of this. You didn't tell him to take out a HELOC. You didn't tell him to spend 11,500. You had very little say in what took place. Now they took out a heloc, clearly, for more. Who knows what they did with that? But that was their choice. And now they're like, man, this is kind of heavy on us. We want this money?

[Caller]

Yeah. Now you're an ATM machine.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Exactly. And now they're pressing you, hey, $300, you know, whatever it is that they want.

[Caller]

I totally retract what I said. They go in the baby steps order. What's the minimum payment on that loan?

[Jade Warshaw]

So the monthly payment for it is 238.34. I will.

[Caller]

So how'd you get. How'd you get at that number?

[Jade Warshaw]

I put it through a loan amortization schedule based on my amount and the interest rate and what the payments I was planning on making.

[Caller]

Great. Tell them you'll pay them 238 and that's a minimum payment. And put in the debt. Snowball. I retract what I said earlier, by.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The way, what's the interest? Is this the interest you came up with or they're charging you interest?

[Jade Warshaw]

So it was originally 8%, but it just went down to 7.5%.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's the interest on the helo lock.

[Jade Warshaw]

The. Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I. That's again, I'm wondering about that because they took out a greater amount for this heloc and I don't feel like it's.

[Caller]

Oh, girl, I'm telling you, we just take these calls for a living.

[Jade Warshaw]

Know that? Because I saw a receipt.

[Caller]

You saw a receipt for what?

[Jade Warshaw]

I saw a receipt sitting on a table that I shouldn't have.

[Caller]

What's the total healing note?

[Jade Warshaw]

It was for more.

[Caller]

So what's the total?

[Jade Warshaw]

Like 30.

[Dr. John Deloney]

See, I just don't. I'm just. I'm. I'm going to keep it 100 with you because it's the only way I know how to keep it. I. In my mind, there's no way I'm paying interest on this. There's no way. Because I'm. I'm going, hey, dad, love you, but you did this. I never. I never approved this message. I never said, go into debt. I certainly never said, Go 11,500 into debt. I certainly never said, and please do it at 8%. You did that. And I'm. On the one hand, I'm grateful that you went to fix my car, but on the other hand, I'm grateful that you kind of tied my hands behind my back. And now I'm on the hook for something that I don't know if I would have done that. And now I'm feeling the pressure, and that's unfortunate because we're family and we love each other. I'm going to pay you back this 11,500. I'm not going to pay it back at 8% interest. Because I would not, I would not have told you to go into debt to do this if you had asked me. That's, that's what Jade Warshaw would do. You and your dad, you know, you know the dynamic. But if you're asking my advice, that's mine, John. What would you do?

[Caller]

The, the other thing I would do is I would ask, I would call the mechanic and ask for an itemized receipt because I want to see.

[Jade Warshaw]

I did choose a receipt. It's, I have it in a packet for my car care and they, and.

[Caller]

They did $11,500 worth of work for a friend.

[Jade Warshaw]

So about 6,600 was the engine and then the rest was, was labor and taxes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I tell you what, I, I'm not questioning that part so much. Maybe I, I don't know enough about cars to question that part, but I am questioning the way it all went down. Yeah, I don't, you know, help get.

[Caller]

Your kid a 1500 used Camry with 300, 000 miles on it to get you from A to B. Yeah. You don't take an $11,000 loan, 8% interest, and then haggle your, your single mother daughter over it. That's what you don't do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Caller]

That's boostmobile.com Ramsey restrictions apply.

[Jade Warshaw]

See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're listening to the Ramsey show. Jade Warshaw, Dr. John DeLoney are your hosts. Ken Coleman is in the studio. I see you back there, Ken. All right, let's go to Joshua in New York. New York. What's up Joshua?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, how are we doing today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Doing great. How can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, I have a little bit of a situation happening right now where I have started a company with a co founder. Three and a half years ago we, and from day one we've had some disagreements. But throughout those disagreements we've always been able to come to a compromise and we were both very hard working. Over the period of time the company has grown to 12 employees with a shop in New York and everything that you could possibly need to do a beautiful Paint job on your home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Nice.

[Jade Warshaw]

I have worked tirelessly for the past three and a half years to build the business to what it is today and what it's cash flowing at today. Now these disagreements between my co founder and I have come to a point where a lot of trust is lost. He started other businesses within the same shop, taking resources from my business while simultaneously, I mean, anything from, you know, putting wrong things at the paint store on other accounts. X, Y and Z, sketchy checks.

[Caller]

So fraud.

[Jade Warshaw]

Cashed in his other bank account.

[Caller]

So fraud.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Like six of six. Like we're talking $6,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's stealing.

[Caller]

So he's stealing from what? He's stealing from you. Yes. That's what that's called. It's called theft and fraud.

[Jade Warshaw]

I. And you know, I'm going to be hiring a very good lawyer.

[Caller]

Good.

[Jade Warshaw]

During this process, along with a forensic accountant.

[Caller]

Perfect.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I've had a ton of advice from people that have run businesses and done this type of thing. Now, moving forward here, it came to a point three weeks ago, two weeks ago, where he had handed me an operating agreement because I had never fully signed into an operating agreement with him and 5050 since day one. And I was going to get an operating agreement drafted up and make sure that it's legit, but, you know, without which I never did. Now he had gone to an attorney without including me in the conversation and he had drafted out a good 20 pa operating agreement.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Dating every last thing in the company. He was pressuring me to sign it one day while I was at the office. Like, you have to sign this. You have to get it done quick. And I go, no, no, I am reading this, I am reading this thing run to back.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And what'd you find?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, so he basically 10 pages deep within the document. He hid a clause in there where it basically assigned him as the executive manager and put me as just a member of not the company.

[Caller]

So how can we help?

[Dr. John Deloney]

We see that he's duplicitous. We see like he's a nefarious fellow. But you didn't sign it. Great. So what can we do for you today?

[Jade Warshaw]

Now today I am selling my shares. I'm getting everything together and making sure that it's right. I did get him to agree to pay out fair market value on my portion of the company.

[Caller]

Are you selling it to him?

[Jade Warshaw]

And determined. I am selling it to him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, wow. Okay. Interesting.

[Jade Warshaw]

Based. Based on a fair market value of what my company is worth.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what will you get?

[Jade Warshaw]

I. So I don't know yet. I have. I have.

[Caller]

Hold on, hold on. Stop, stop, stop. You got to do this in the right order. If you're hiring an attorney and a forensic accountant, wait till they. Wait till all that smoke clears before you accept an offer.

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

Because you don't know how much money's been coming going out the back door. And you don't know what money is your business money that's used to buy other equipment for his business. You don't know how much he's taken out loans in the business's name to buy. Like, you have no idea how bad this is.

[Jade Warshaw]

And my accountant is working on this as we speak, gathering together all of the information.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Listen, you've done. You've done the right things. Tell us what we can do for you today.

[Jade Warshaw]

So once I get this money, which should be anywhere from, I want to say, 300,000 to $600,000, what is going to be the. It is a gap because he's going, well, I'm going a little.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But again, to John's point, you don't even know what you're basing it off of, and that's the hard part. So we could. We can spitball with you and say, well, if it's $300, maybe do this, and if it's 600, maybe do that. But we are literally speculating.

[Caller]

You'll have to do a net present value on the company. You'll have to depreciate all of the stuff you have inside. You'll have to take the, The. The building that you've bought. I mean, you'll have to. It's just going to be a nightmare untangling this. And by the way, the attorneys and the accountants, God bless them, have a vested interest in going through every receipt because they get paid every six minutes. Right? And so know if you and him can shake hands on something or get. It's kind of like a real estate person for businesses to come in and do a net present value assessment and give you a. If you want to do that. But, man, you're. He's going to offer you something ridiculous. You're going to make up something ridiculous. But y' all gonna have no numbers to actually base this off of. But somebody needs to come in and do an evaluation of your company, and you'll need to agree probably in some sort of settlement, some sort of like, agreement. We're both agreeing that this is the person, and that person will do an assessment.

[Jade Warshaw]

We are hiring an assessor on Sunday. We're all going to meet together and determine the assessor to assess the business's value.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Great, great. So let's. Let's pivot off of that because I think you're doing all the right things. Let's pivot to your question, which is. Is what would you do with the money after selling your business? Right. That's the real question here.

[Jade Warshaw]

What am I going to do with my life?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, your life.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, let's get to my life.

[Caller]

You tell me, what do you want to do?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you want to open another painting business? You know how to run it?

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely. Absolutely not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It is.

[Jade Warshaw]

It is. No, no. It is a nightmare running a business.

[Caller]

No, it's awesome. You just had a bad part for me, but. Okay, so you don't want to do that. What do you want to do?

[Jade Warshaw]

I want to ski. And I want to paint luxury houses by myself.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

In a mountain town somewhere. And I want to invest my money smart. In a smart manner that.

[Caller]

You know what else I want?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hallmark movie.

[Caller]

I want a million dollars. And I want a new Gibson Firebird. And actually an old, new Gibson Firebird. And I want to, like, go to space.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But wait. No, no, no. Wait, wait, wait. I'm not going to be as facetious as John, because I actually don't think what you're saying is not. It's not far off dream.

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, you ha. You were doing something on a very grand scale, and you're like, hey, I just need to back it down a little bit. I don't need a business with 12 employees. I just need me. I'll go out and paint. I can make enough. Live enough of a living for me to sustain my lifestyle. And if I can do that in an area that I love, someplace where there's mountains I can ski in the winter, that would be great, right? Is that what I'm hearing?

[Jade Warshaw]

That is what you're hearing. And before that as well, I. I'm so burnt out. I am so drained from this entire thing and the litigation that's about to happen. I'm gonna take my atv, put it in the back of my truck, and travel the entire United States, coast to coast, visiting all of my friends and locations that I wanted to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, now. Now we're getting into John's world.

[Caller]

Why?

[Jade Warshaw]

Is that a smart idea?

[Caller]

No, that's your version of, like, I'm taking my ball and I'm going home. Like, why?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, do you have a bunch of money? Tell us what kind of money you have, because that could inform some of this.

[Caller]

Whatever you think you're gonna go home with here's what's gonna happen. You've already done the math on 600,000, right? And if you get an offer for 450, you haven't taken out taxes, you haven't taken out attorneys fees, you haven't taken out assessor fees, you haven't taken out tax fees, you haven't taken out any of that stuff. Stuff. And if you get an offer for 450, which might be a super fair offer, you're going to feel like this partner just took a took 150,000 from you because you just made up a number. And so dude, don't go visit your friends, take two weeks off. That's all fine and good, but bro, you can't cash out a life. And by the way, it's your right to be tired on the front end of this. It's fine. Just get through it and make good choices on the way through.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Beware spending money before you get it. Beware as an investor and a person of faith.

[Caller]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

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[Dr. John Deloney]

From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us for we're continuing to take calls about your life and your money. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney. Getting into it, We've got Stacy, who's in Atlanta, Georgia. Stacy, how can we help today?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. So I have a complicated all your calls are complicated, but this one probably is a little more than at least what I'm used to hearing on Your show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

I have two in laws who I love dearly. They are both in their mid to early 80s. My father in law, about a year and a half ago was diagnosed with cancer and multitude of other things. He's in very ill health. My mother in law is in fantastic health and the situation is this. They have been married for 60 years. They both had very well paying jobs, built up a really nice nest egg probably to the two them of between several, I want to say maybe three and a half, $4 million.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And my mother in law has never been responsible with money. My father in law has always been the one to handle the bills. They are debt free, doing well financially. And when my father in law went to the hospital about a year ago, he decided to go ahead and give my mother in law access to her retirement account. Thinking that he didn't have much longer, she drained it, giving it to an online scammer.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Three to four million?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, no, no, there's several accounts. The one that he gave her access to was 3/4 of a million.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. 3/4.

[Jade Warshaw]

She drained that within about a week, giving it to some online scammers. She. We learned a lot after that incident in that this has been going on for years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That she's been getting scammed.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, yes. And she also has been cheating on her husband.

[Caller]

Well, that's what I was about to ask. Are you sure she's getting scammed or she willingly giving away money to boyfriends and other men?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, no, she is, but we think there's some mental illness there because there's like she's involved in a one way romantic relationship with this person she's never met. And we've done some research. He's got multiple Facebook profiles, same picture, different name, you know, doing the same thing all over the country. So she has been visited by the FBI and the police and she still believes that what she's doing is on the up and up with this guy that she's never met.

[Caller]

Will she. Would she go get evaluated so that somebody can become the financial power of attorney before she just destroys her life?

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely not. She, absolutely. She thinks that she's, she's vainer than all of us.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, interesting.

[Jade Warshaw]

So, yeah, so the conundrum that we have is that we. Well, when I say we, my husband and his brother have spoken to their dad about their concerns. And we're not poor, but we're definitely not in a situation where we could provide for her for the next 20 years if she does live that long. I mean, she's in Great health.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

And honestly, after finding out what I found out, I wouldn't want to take care of her. And that sounds terrible, but there's a lot of upset in the family over what she's done to him and everybody else. She's even gone to her own son and asked for money to pay bills, which she has. Her, my father in law pays all the bills. She even reverse mortgage her car that he paid off to give this guy money. And she's run up credit card debt. So she's in her 80s and she's got nothing in her name solely. What is left is in their name jointly. And we've asked him to make my husband or his brother executives of the estate. He says he has, but we don't have evidence.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Why do you think he's dragging his feet on this? Because. Because like what you're observing third and fourth party, obviously he's been side by side for however long they've been married. So he's known about this longer and closer up than you guys have. Why do you think that he is in denial about this or why, you know what I'm saying? What's stopping him?

[Jade Warshaw]

We don't know. We've had conversations, you know, amongst ourselves about what that reason could possibly be we're working to use because he's a very intelligent man and she is too, honestly, but not about this. And so we're confused because if he's known about this for this long, not to this extent, obviously he's just finding out about the gravity of it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But your biggest concern is he does nothing. He passes away and she blows through this money quickly. And now I'm gonna be on the hook to take care of her. And I don't even like her like that. That's basically where you're at.

[Jade Warshaw]

Exactly. Bingo. And side note, my husband and I, I'm in my late 40s, he's in his mid-50s. We're gonna be in the next two years. We've worked aggressively to get to that point. And I don't want to go in the debt to take care of somebody else who is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You don't. And you don't have to. And you don't have to. There's a part of this, and John, this is your territory, but there's part of this where they had their life with their choices. And there are times where, when you feel the need to swoop in or, you know, you can swoop in, or some of the us is like, yeah, I, I plan to take care of my parents. When they go into their latter years, like they already kind of have it in their mind, you know, for whatever reasons, whether it's because they misbehaved with money or even if they didn't, they just caught a lot of bad breaks and they feel like it's their need to step in and kind of help. But those are choices. It's not, it's not. You must do this and it's your responsibility to do this. I, I think those are hard lines to draw. But I do think, think that that's the truth of the matter. I mean, John, what do you think about that?

[Caller]

Honestly, I would. Well, there's a couple things here. You have to understand that there's not a lot you personally can do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Caller]

And that's heartbreaking. Your husband can. And if I was in his shoes, I would petition a court for conservatorship.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, well that was, that was why I was calling to see if there's anything that we could do to prevent this catastrophe.

[Caller]

The only thing, what they'll do is potentially you are just throwing a Hail Mary pass, hoping somebody catches it, getting the right judge on the right day. But what you would have to prove is hey, this has continued over a series of years. My dying elderly father in law, or in your husband's case, my dying dad moves money over that she gave to an online scammer. The FBI has been here, here's all this and she's taking out loans. Basically she is a harm to herself and you want to get a course. What if the court can order psychological testings etc and you're going to have.

[Dr. John Deloney]

To deal with the, the down, you know, like the outcome of all that, that's going to be the hard part on you is they're going to fight against this. They're going to.

[Caller]

He might not, but she might. But you can tell him we're about to go to court to try to get. Because he might say oh thank God, I don't have to do it. Like who knows? So you're, you're about to say something. What are you about to say?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, actually it's used to what you were just about to say yourself. That was going to be my question. What if he does not want to go that process? And I don't think that he will because honestly I think that there's of him that's very embarrassed about this. I mean we're just finding out about this and it's been going on to certain degrees for 60 years.

[Caller]

So this is, it's as simple as telling him this is going to come. You can sign this over to us and it stays with us or this is going to become a public matter. But we have to take our. I have to take my mom's health into account starting now. Because here's the deal your husband and his brothers are, are faced with. Do we watch our mom burn her life to the ground or do we go down swinging? And I'm going to use. I'm forget ego. Dad, you have one choice. You can. I mean, you have two choices. One, this becomes public because we're going to go to court and try to get mom's conservatorship over mom's money. Or two, you sign over all of your personal finances so we can stop her from burning the house down. That's really your two choices. And I would tell my adr old dad that he gets to choose, but we're going to court because we see how this thing ends at the very end.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, unfortunately, I think this is one of those things where both solutions just sitting to the side and saying, hey, this is your life. I can't make you do anything. That's tough. And the other option, which is really being very, very proactive, that's going to have its own set of challenges and that's going to be very tough as well.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's.

[Jade Warshaw]

Plus, rent means instability in your budget.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because it always goes up, never down.

[Jade Warshaw]

So when you're ready to buy, make.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure you work with a mortgage partner. You can rely on Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely.

[Jade Warshaw]

Churchill understands that when you buy a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget.

[Jade Warshaw]

Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now it's extra money in your pocket.

[Jade Warshaw]

And an asset towards turning you into.

[Dr. John Deloney]

A baby steps millionaire. Get started on the American dream of home ownership today@churchill mortgage.com that's churchill mortgage.com Megan in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. What's up, Megan?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, no problem. How can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

I have a question. My husband and I sat down just last night and set up our budget and went through like the paycheck planning tool. And my question is, I get paid every month on the 1st and the 16th of the month, and he gets paid every other week. So for this last month of May, I technically got paid on the 30th, because the first was on a Sunday.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

So for those instances, do I budget those, like, last few day paychecks for June, or should I have budgeted it in May?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'll tell you what I do, because it's the most practical, in my opinion. Yeah. Those last day, like, if you're getting paid and it's either like the, you know, the 30th, the 31st, the first. I always put that for the next month because the truth is, what would you have spent that money on? The month is over. So you'd be living in. Everything would be late if you waited. Does that make sense? So what month are we in now? We're in May. So if you had waited all the way until May 31 or June 1 or May 30 to pay bills in May, they'd all be living late. Right. So it's almost like, yeah, you got to treat that money to go to the next month. And I will say, if you're going from a paycheck to paycheck type of vibe, or you're going from a. A situation where you're just trying to, like, get current, it can take a while to make that happen because essentially you're. You're having to get ahead in order to do that for the first time, if that makes sense.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Yeah. And we are. We're currently in baby step three. And I had it budgeted that it would go to June's budget, but then I was like, well, technically it's in May. So then I tried setting up my paycheck planning tool of that. It would just go into that. I would technically only get paid once in June since it got deposited on May 30. But then it said I was over.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Budget and for that month you would. And that's the point that I'm making. So the first time you do that, that essentially for that month. Yeah. You're like, hey, I'm used to saying that I get paid twice, but for this first month that I'm switching over, the way that I do this. Yeah. It's going to look like I'm only getting one paycheck in May. And then when you come to do June, though, and I'll tell you exactly the way I have it listed on my budget, it'll say paycheck number one, and it'll say, you know, you know, the 30th in parentheses and it'll say paycheck number two, 15th in parentheses. And the same thing from my husband. So I know where it's coming from. But they're all listed under the actually spending the money. And that's the key. You gotta. You do your budget based on when you're actually going to be spending the money that you get, and then that's the last time that'll ever happen. And then from that point on, you're always going to have two checks. Two checks, no matter what date they're paid out, you're always going to have two checks for the month from you and two checks from the month for him. Does that make sense?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it does. So does that go the same as, like, when you spend money at the end of the month, as far as it, like, when it actually gets posted to your account? Do you. Does it matter what month you technically, like, put those in as your budget. Like, I spent money on the 30th, but it didn't post until the 3rd. Does that matter at all?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what I do for that is. It really just depends. I could, I could say, well, if I got paid on the 30th, that's technically when my new month begins. And I could say anything that posts. Anything that I spent not posts. Because if it posts there, that means you spent it on the 29th. Right. Or a couple days before. Anything that I spent on the 30 30th, 31st, on into the 1st and into the month. Yeah, I could, I could count that towards my June budget. Now, if you had margin left over from the previous month, you could say, yeah, whatever, I can keep it on. I had margin anyway. I can slide it over there. That's fine. But technically, if you want to get technical. Yeah. Though anything that, anything that you spend on that day that you got paid, if it was the 30th or 31st. Yeah. That would go on to the next month. Because. Because that's technically when you're saying that new month begins because you got that first paycheck.

[Jade Warshaw]

Perfect. Makes sense.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Perfect. That, that, that's one of those calls. It's like in the weeds. But that is a question I get all the time.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it's like, am I. It's almost like, am I allowed to do this 100%? Yes, you are allowed. All right. Phyllis is in Denver, Colorado. What's up? Phyllis?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi. Thanks for taking the call. I'm really looking forward. The language to use. My adult child and their spouse are considering going back to school for a doctorate degree. To become a doctor, a medical doctor. And I'm trying to find the language to convince them to save the money before they go to avoid the debt.

[Caller]

So one or both of them wants to go to med school?

[Jade Warshaw]

One. Yes.

[Caller]

Of them.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Caller]

And which will be about between 3 and 500,000 bucks, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Caller]

So how old are they?

[Jade Warshaw]

26 and 24.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah, it's tough to talk to 26 and 24 year olds. You know why? Because they know everything.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, they. They do.

[Caller]

They know everything ever.

[Jade Warshaw]

And unfortunately, whatever language I've used, I just keep putting them on the defensive. And I. I don't want to do that. That's definitely not my goal.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, so what are you saying? Yeah, I'm curious.

[Jade Warshaw]

What are you thinking about how. What do you think? How are you thinking about paying that back? Like, what is your plan for paying that back? And I've asked that question. I've asked, what do you think about the idea of maybe saving your. The salary you're making right now because you're going to not have that money to live on when they go back to school. So take that money and instead of spending it, save that money that you're making now pretend you're in school and don't have that money to spend so that you. When you're finally accepted, because it will take a couple years to be accepted, you'll have, you know, a good chunk of money to get you started.

[Caller]

So when you think of. People might argue with me on this, but late adolescent development. I know we can say, like, they're 25 years. It's laid out. Unless.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

One of their specialties is this phrase, no, no, no, no, no. That's a problem for future me. And it's almost. They have that ability, but it's. It's almost like a faux inability to put themselves at the chair at the desk, looking at a bill that says, you owe me $21,000 this month because you took out $500,000 in loans. Right. You get what I'm saying? Like, it's. It's almost hard to even put themselves in that situation. Situation. Have you ever had challenges with money? Have you done stupid things with money before?

[Jade Warshaw]

Not me. No. I grew up in a. I grew up with parents that didn't have a clue as to how to rub two nickels together. So I started responsibly taking care of family finances at a very tender age.

[Caller]

What about their dad?

[Jade Warshaw]

Also no, never.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And our child? Also, no, never.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

So. Grew up in a household where we Save money and buy a secondhand car for cash.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So is it the spouse that's influencing this behavior? Because obviously it sounds like you taught your children to avoid debt. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Very, very much so. Very much so. Here's how you have car payments and student loans.

[Caller]

I'm going to implore you not to divide a husband. Try to divide a husband.

[Jade Warshaw]

No intentions. That's why I'm calling you.

[Caller]

But when you say, hey, this is a stupid idea idea, and she's the one driving either.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I don't say that either.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, I don't say that either. And honestly, when a, when a question is asked of me, I don't even answer it. I say, well, what did your spouse say?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, that's good.

[Caller]

It's good. But I mean, I, I do think this, I think it's fair. If they ask you a question, I always say, do you want, do you want my real answer?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I do that too.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Definitely do that. Perfect.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think you're doing. Yeah, you're doing what you can do, Phyllis.

[Caller]

You got to grieve it, I guess. Ass.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And tell them I love you. I, I, I wouldn't do this how you're doing it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The only other thing you could do. What, when I asked you earlier about like, what kinds of things are you saying? What I was checking for is to find out, are you kind of just poking holes in what they're doing or are you giving them ways? Do you know what I mean? Cuz nobody likes to be nitpicked.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what I'm, that's so, so there is a way, like I, I weigh in my head and that's what I'm trying to do is try to figure out how do I lay out. So one of them, one of them has their, one of them has their associate's degree and worked while the other got their bachelor's.

[Caller]

Well, and they're just going to flip that around. But here's one more idea. This may not work. One more idea. If you have somewhere 50,000 bucks and you tell them you guys save up 200, I'll put 50, 50 in. And you may not have that kind of money, who knows, but, or you put in 200, y' all save up 200, I'll put in 100. I'll put some skin in the game too, if y' all will do this the right way. And that might be a way, but honestly, a 24 year old and 26 year old that are married, starting their life, the best you can do is Say, when this thing goes sideways, I'll be here.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Foreign what's up guys? It's Jade. And let me tell you, when my husband and I had $280,000 of student loan debt, we were not sitting around waiting on the government to bail us out. We did the hard work to pay it off ourselves. So if you're still holding out hope that forgiveness is coming, that's like you waiting for your landlord to start paying your rent. It ain't gonna happen. If you really want those student loans gone, you need a plan. And for some of you, you, refinancing might be part of the plan. So I recommend Laurel Road. With Laurel Road, you can get an initial rate quote in less than five minutes. And if you have a more complex situation, you can set up 30 minutes to talk to a real actual human being to find out if refinancing is right for you. Ramsey's advice is clear. Get out of debt as fast as possible and a lower rate or a shorter term can make that possible. Laurel Road has low competitive rates and they even offer interest rate discounts. So stop waiting on the maybes and the somedays and start taking action today. Go to LaurelRoad.com Ramsey to get a free rate quote or schedule a free 30 minute consultation. That's Laurelroad.com Ramsey John buying or selling a house is a big deal. And between clickbait headlines and the confusing data, it really is tough to know what's actually going on in the housing market. So we're here to make the latest trends very easy to understand. For instance, median home prices went up slightly last month. Now they're about 430,000. And there's actually more homes on the market. There's about 1 million, which is the highest since 2019. But in many areas, it's still not enough to meet the buyer demand. Also, the average 15 year fixed rate rose to 5.9 last month, but it's still under 6. So that's pretty good. If you're financially ready, a small rate increase should not hold you back from buying the home that you love. That's what we think. And if you want to learn more about the housing market market trends, you can get a free tool to help you buy and sell with confidence by going to ramseysolutions.com market or you can click the link in the show Notes. If you're listening on podcast or YouTube, we got Paul in Minneapolis, Minnesota. What's up Paul?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi, how are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

We're doing good. How can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm Just so glad to talk to you all. My wife and I started on the Ramsey plan probably about four years ago and it was just after one of our many moves across country. Our final move. And we were, we had a home and we had a truck loan and we had credit card debt, all of which we have now paid off.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Debt free. Home paid off. Old nine yards.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Way to go.

[Jade Warshaw]

Very exciting. Yeah, we appreciate it. The help from you guys, that is, that's awesome. Oh, thank you. My question for you is, we are both 43 and I am a software engineer with over 20 years of experience. Experience. And I'm watching the prospects for the future of my career disappear every single day with AI and I don't believe that I'll get more than 10 years in this career. I think it's pretty much going to go away very shortly in that timeframe, plus or minus five or 10 years. I'm lucky I can make it to retirement in my current job, but it's very unlikely and we haven't saved a lot because we pilfered some of our 401ks along the way to finance some of our moves. And now we're sitting on approximately 120,000 in our 401ks collectively. And I also have a 14 year old daughter and an 11 year old daughter that are going to want to go to college. And I'm kind of looking at that and trying to figure out what should I be doing, how much should I be contributing not only to the college but to our own retirement. Given that I don't know that I'm going to have a huge amount of career prospects in the near future.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean we can. There's two pieces I hear here. There is just practical, practical talk about what's the best way to save for college. What's the best percentage to put towards my 401k so that we're ready in retirement because we don't have as much as I want. Right. Like there's the logical side there. Then I hear a lot of fear on the other side. It may be well founded fears but I still hear a lot of fear. So maybe we tackle the fear side first.

[Caller]

Yeah, here's. I mean Paul, I sat in this exact seat, gosh, 10 years ago now I was actually back in 2013. I sat on a team, there was five of us and the university president where I worked bought 5 of our time out of our departments and put us in a room for 18 months to study the future of higher education. And within six months I think four of the five of us had sold our house and everybody began their exit strategy. There's like we saw, oh, this is unsustainable. And that was the time I started nickel and diming my way towards a degree in counseling. I just saw, I saw the writing on the wall. Now I will say this. My caustic anxiety. I gotta get out right this second was unfounded. Things integrated slower than I thought they would. I realized that a lot of the people making statements about how everything's going to be over and all the this is and that's are happening had a financial stake in that being true before there was reality. Right. And so I'm with you, dude, there. I mean there's AI versions of me that are better than me. Right. And you've also in your career read the energy needs reports that would say for all the stuff to come true. We're not even. We're so far away from being able to build. You know. You get what I'm saying?

[Jade Warshaw]

I do and I understand that I'm presenting a conversation that sounds a bit fear mongering.

[Caller]

Oh, you're not. You're in it. You're right in the middle it. You're not. I've been there. And here's what I'm telling you. I got an. I started training five years before I thought I was going to need to for a new opportunity. And I did have to do it on weekends and I did have to do it with two young kids and I did have to do it at night time. But I just saw the writing on the wall that.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's actually, I mean my wife is going back to school right now to be a teacher because we know that her current job is going to be replaced. So she's, she's taking action in that space. I find that far more difficult.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just because I, I've been doing this for over 25 years and I don't enjoy it. Yeah. Already.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And the prospect of picking a secondary type career for the second half of my life that I probably won't enjoy as well.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's the part.

[Caller]

This is your shot. Yeah. It's halftime. Just think of it this way. It's halftime. And the plays you are running in the first half are not going to win this game.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Cool.

[Caller]

Then we get to either run those same plays and get beat by 70 or we get to change up strategies.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it's a blessing. You said you didn't even like the engineering job. So look at it as, you know what this might have been the Only thing that would shake me loose to actually go pursue something that I could actually love.

[Jade Warshaw]

Fair enough. I am of the mindset though too that I like to build the boat before the rain 100%.

[Caller]

That's what I'm saying. That's why, that's what I told you. I just did. I just did this. I just did.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I'm, I'm with you. I'm with you. But like let's pretend a worst case scenario and I'm in a position where I have between five to 10 more years of high, high income earning. What should I. To give myself mental peace. What's the, what should I be contributing in my retirement and in my college funds and in my 403Bs so that I can make sure that I'm building the boat to settle my own emotions, emotional, you know, concerns.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So that's the part where I was kind of dialing in on the fear because I want fear to make you do the right things and I don't want fear to cause you to not do the right things. Does that make sense? So absolutely, to John's point. Yeah. On the career side, you know, we'll send you find the work you're wired to do. We'll find all those things to help you dive into what it looks like to build the boat towards a new career and finding what you love to do. But on the financial side, just keep doing what you're doing. Right, today you're making a paycheck. Your job's not going tomorrow, so today you're making a paycheck. You live in a paid off house so you should at least be continuing to invest 15% but you should have some margin there that you can do more. Now how much to this, to this day, how much are you putting aside for your 14 year old and your 11 year old?

[Jade Warshaw]

None. We hadn't really planned on saving for college very well. That was a huge mistake on our part and we started on our debt snowball. We were already sort of kind of in the middle of being close to the end so we just pushed hard.

[Dr. John Deloney]

On all that debt and that's okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so yeah, we do have a margin as far as we can probably save between 3 to 4,000amonth right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

On top of our expenses then I would do that. I didn't ask you, how much do you guys make?

[Jade Warshaw]

Household income is 170.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, great. So you've got the margin. I want you for sure investing 15%. Don't back that down for college. Keep it at 15%. And then yeah, if you can stack away some more for the kids college, that's great in the meant. In the meantime, go ahead and use a education calculator to find out how much that will be when the time comes for them. So that way you can start having the conversations now with them and saying, hey, when the time comes 14 year old that you go to school, you're probably going to have about $35,000 here, here's what that means for you and start talking to them about what that expectation is or whatever it's going to be.

[Caller]

I, I did that just. You sound like an anxious guy like me. I just did that recently. My daughter's 9 and I literally took the number of months she has left before she's 18 and I just divided that by the number I want to have in an account for her when she goes to college. And then I just decided I'm going to start saving that much money and put it in a dedicated account. I called a buddy who's a banker and I'm run. I mean it was just that simple. But it's just a math equation you can do in your head.

[Jade Warshaw]

Fair enough.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And, and there's also part, part of this because you also mentioned retirement. I always like to highlight this. You are going to reach an age, forget the AI the AI part for a moment. You are going to reach an age where you cannot work regardless. So retirement is very important. I do not want you to sacrifice that to pay cash for kids school because there are so many other ways that they can go without you being the only bank. Does that make sense?

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely. Yeah. My parents and my wife's parents didn't provide for our educations and we, you know, did that ourselves.

[Caller]

But I can, I can almost guarantee you in 10 years education is going to look different too.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It is. But what I want you to do is the same way that you run out those educational numbers, look at your current 401k and say @ this rate that we're investing, how do we feel? You know, when age 68 comes, whatever day you want to retire, do we feel good about this? And if not, what must we do today to make that the number we want? And if that means I'm putting less to kids college, so so be it. As long as you're having those conversations and you're jumping into this with your eyes wide open. Okay, you guys remember the four walls of a budget.

[Jade Warshaw]

Food, utilities, shelter and transportation. Right now I want to focus on food because inflation, inflation is driving up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The cost of groceries and we're all feeling it.

[Jade Warshaw]

But Aldi shoppers can save up to 36% on an average shopping trip, which adds up to be about $4,000 a year for a family of four. $4,000. Aldi has what you need at prices that won't bust your budget, from bread and milk to organic produce, fresh meat and affordable must haves. So stop paying more and start shopping smarter at Aldi, where you'll save with the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you today at Aldi us. That's Aldi US.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Foreign C Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Y Refi Defaulted private student loans can feel like a wall that you're never going to be able to climb. But why? Refi may be able to help you get over it. They'll work with you to explore a payment plan that's tailored to your situation. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y R-E-F-Y.com Ramseyrem Remember, it may not be available in all states.

[Caller]

Today's question comes from Ken in Indiana. My wife and I are doing our wills and our plan is to leave our assets to each other with our kids being the beneficiaries when we pass. We have four children and each will get 25% held in a trust until they are 30. We also want them to be debt free before receiving their inheritance. If they are not, we would give a 10 year window and if they still can't get there, then their portion would go to church charity. Do you feel this is asking too much of them? Geez. I have just a couple thoughts on this one. I don't know enough information here because I don't know your kids. And if Your kids are 7, 11 and 6 right now and you're already trying to prejudge them for behaviors they're going to do when they're 30. About Mike, you're you're building stress into your life that you don't need to have there right now. The second thing I'd want to know is how much money are we talking about here? We're talking about a hundred thousand bucks bucks or are we talking about $10 million? If it's 100,000 bucks, relax. Just relax. If it's $100 million or $10 million, then you can kill a kid. If you hand them a check for $2 million and they're not, they're not well and whole. Right? They can. If they have problems, they can greatly exacerbate their challenges.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I also want to know what kind of debt we're talking about. Is this, is this a mortgage payment that they just are fine with and they're like everyone else in America besides Ramsey folk, you know what I mean?

[Caller]

Or is it a car note? And if they have a car Note, they forfeit $4 million. Like, what is that?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I want to know more about their lifestyle choices. Are like, are they healthy humans?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know, there's a lot here.

[Caller]

I, and I think this is me. I like to do as little. I'm not going to have like Dave Ramsey money. Right. And there's a lot of documented research that says, like, if you hand, hand like X generations down this much money, you, you, you can hurt them.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. 100%.

[Caller]

So having some safeguards built into that I think is wise. I'm not going to have that kind of money. And so what I really want to spend my energy doing is teaching my kids to be people of character and model that for them growing up. And outside of they have a drug problems or they're struggling with alcohol or struggling with things, they're going to kill them. I, I want to do as little legislating from the grave as of part possible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, let's, let's float this out a little bit because I'm having some thoughts on this. I agree with you, John. I'm also thinking about the part you said about, you know, my kids are 5 and 7. I don't know who they're going to be. You know, I know who they are today. And I can have some thoughts into, you know, maybe what the next couple years might hold, I don't know. But for sure, not into their 30s. But there's part of this that maybe you keep it a little less kung fu grip and we start to kind of see who they're going to be. And I, you know, I'm, I'm starting to think more about these ideas of not leaving everything until you're gone. But like, what's it look like to give them a down payment on the house? What's it look like to help them pay cash for their first home? You know, like those sorts of things. And see what they do with that. Right. And see who, who they are with money. And then you might find early on, oh yeah, like, even if they, I do think I'm going to say this lightly. There are people who follow like the Ramsey plan. They pay off their debt. Their debt, but they're wilding out in other ways, you know, saying like, it doesn't make you whole everywhere. And then I know people who have a credit card, but they're great moms and dads. Moms and dads are very responsible in all these other aspects. So I kind of, it's, it's hard to kind of like draw this line and, and say if you have this thing, you're just completely irresponsible and if you don't, you're completely responsible. Like, does that make sense?

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So it's, this is a tough one.

[Caller]

So there's, there's a lot can, there's a lot of variables here that we don't have. I want to spend my energy, the bulk of my energy. Since I'm not going to have $100 million to pass on to my kids, I want to spend the bulk of my energy. My 9 year old daughter the other day said something along the lines of, I think that person's paying with a credit card and I want her to already know that's just not how our house operates.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right?

[Caller]

And here's the other important thing. If you are debt free and you beat your kids up about it and you don't have peace in your life, then this idea of financial peace will not be communicated because it won't make sense to them. They'll be like, why would I live debt free? You were miserable. You were always angry. You're, you were trying to dictate our lives 25 years from now. Like financial peace says. I heard my son the other day arguing with my wife about he wanted to have a sleepover and we said no. And he said, well, you get to sleep over with your best friend every night. It's not fair. And I remember saying, my wife came back and she was kind of choked up and she said that might be the best statement on our marriage we've ever seen is my kids experience us laughing, dancing and hanging out. And so they have a picture of what marriage should look like. Now, they were too young when the big stuff happened, right? But all that to say, say is if you want them to want to live a life that's debt free when they're young, then show them the peace part, show them the giving part, show them the laughter in your house part. And then when they ask questions about money, you say, oh no, no, we, we choose peace. We don't use that stuff in this house. And that's why we get to have that kind of peace. And then they're going to, they're going to opt into that, that level of living. So that, that's Where I'd spend my energy and time. Ken, assuming you're not a, I don't know, a business owner that has a hundred million dollars that you're about to split off and leave.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I agree. I think that we've. We've covered this. This is a hard one. There's so many variables in it, so many factors. Maybe write back in or call back in with some more details and we can really get it dialed into exactly. What's going on with you? Susan is in New Brunswick. New Brunswick, New Jersey. What's up, Susan? That's a tongue twister.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi there. How are you doing?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I'm back to the fear of finances. I'm telling you a little story. My husband and I are both retired. We're 66, no debt, live in our house. We did talk about moving to a 55 community for a while, and then now the time is here and I'm starting to get cold feet.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because I know that moving into a new home, this is. Even though it's 55, it's a lot more than we're going to get for the price of our house. And then monthly expenses go up with HOAs and taxes and buying new furniture. He thinks we're fine. I'm getting cold feet.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're going to take a mortgage out, Is that what you're saying? You're going to go from no mortgage to having a mortgage?

[Jade Warshaw]

No. We would probably take the money from the house and then add to it. Maybe take a loan for a little bit against our portfolio, I guess.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, it's a backwards. But it's still a mortgage. You're taking a payment on the house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Why would you do a loan? Why wouldn't you do. Just take the money?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, we would. We would the loan to bridge us from the time now that we have to put out for this new construction. Because you have to pay, you know, a lot, like 5% at the beginning and then another 5% when you do all the decorating and things.

[Caller]

Here's what's important. You are 50% of this decision, and you don't have peace. And right now you have.

[Jade Warshaw]

True. Right. But am I over?

[Caller]

No, no, no. Because you don't have. You don't have the data. You don't have peace. You've got like, we're going to do this. We're gonna do some somersaults and we're gonna do some backflips, and then we're gonna slap it up, flip it, reverse it, and try to get this thing to here so that we can get in there so we can build a new thing and get into. And right now you have a paid off house, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

At the very, very least. Least what I would do if, if you, if at the very very least I would sell the house you're in first. So you have the cold hard cash and you have the piece of knowing, okay, our house sold. And even if you're renting for a while while the new thing is being built, at least you're not doing this bridge loan situation. Because that's, I think that's out of everything you, I heard you say that's the unpeaceful part because now you've taken out this bridge loan. Now you feel the weight of gosh, I hope our house sells. What happens if it doesn't sell in. In time and then this other new construction's done and now you've got two payments. Do you see what I'm saying? That's the thing that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, maybe I didn't make it clear because we, we would. The, the loan would be just the difference between what we get for the house and for what the new house is.

[Caller]

That's what she's saying. If, if you have a million dollar house you're trying to buy into and you sign up, you sign a commitment to move into a million dollar house and your house doesn't sell, then you've got, you've got your old house plus this million dollar house that you got to start paying on. I would want to ask the questions, what are you going to gain by moving into this, this community and could you do things like go to karaoke and go play games and go hang out with friends without packing up and selling everything and taking out a mortgage at 66 years old?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I agree. Sounds like this needs a little bit more thought before you jump into it.

[Jade Warshaw]

No matter what you want to do with your money, you need a budget. Start budgeting for free today with the EveryDollar app. The easiest way to budget, track your expenses and reach. Listen guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Your money where to go so you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can stop wondering where it went. So if you're going to start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. The easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the EveryDollar. Budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going, going out every single month. And guess what, it's free. So no excuses. Download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play today.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thanks for hanging out with us on the Ramsey Network. Network, the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney continuing to take your calls, calls about your life and your money. John will handle the, the wellness side of things. I'll just keep it a broad blanket because you're into all of that and I'll try to help you with the dollars and cents. Alrighty. Let's go to Jennifer. She's in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Why are you laughing at me, John?

[Caller]

Because I'm into all that. What's up Jennifer?

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank you so much much for taking my call. So my husband passed away suddenly a year ago.

[Caller]

Oh man. What was his name?

[Jade Warshaw]

Joe.

[Caller]

Joe. Is he a good guy?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, he was a wonderful man. We have seven kids. I still have five at home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So we are debt free except for our house. We do have some investments in the savings account but he was our primary income earner and my income, I'm just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Work part time and that was just kind of our fun money.

[Jade Warshaw]

So we live off of my part time job now in the Social Security that the kids receive.

[Caller]

So he did not have any life insurance?

[Jade Warshaw]

He had a little bit, but it was from a job that he had long ago and so it was just a little bit. And that's what's in our brokerage account.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That is set aside in case anything ever happened. How much is that in the brokerage?

[Jade Warshaw]

We have about a hundred thousand.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, and what is the money between the Social Security and the part time job we have?

[Jade Warshaw]

It's about five total. Between my part time job and Social Security is about 5,300amonth.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, and how then how much is the mortgage payment?

[Jade Warshaw]

That's 1600 is our mortgage.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good, good, good.

[Caller]

Yeah, but you can't, you can't raise five kids on 5,000 bucks a month. Month.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It pays the bills and I really good at budgeting but there's just nothing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Extra to start saving towards anything.

[Caller]

So is it. Before I put words in your mouth, how can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

My question is do I continue to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Just work this part time job and.

[Jade Warshaw]

Keep the kid's life as close to what it's then?

[Caller]

I don't think he can.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or do I try to find another.

[Jade Warshaw]

Job or another part time job so that I can.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

For them.

[Caller]

How Old are you? How old is your youngest?

[Jade Warshaw]

She's eight. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

There's, there, there's no way I can give you an answer that's going to not hurt. But I think you're in a season now where yeah like there's a fiscal reality to this and it in a year the smoke has cleared and you miss your husband every day and he was a great dad and a great guy. But what you have right now is a math problem.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you know, do you, the house that you have now, if you were to sell it, what would it bring? Like what do you think you could take home if you did sell it?

[Jade Warshaw]

I just, I looked it up on.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Zillow and It's worth around 430,000 thousand. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And we owe 162 on it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But to find a house that can house five kids in our area, I don't think we, we have, we're fortunate.

[Jade Warshaw]

To have a house that has five bedrooms. It doesn't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It'S not huge but it fits our family well. Is there any sharing of bedrooms that can take place? Place.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, definitely.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And in another few years there'll be.

[Jade Warshaw]

Less kids hopefully at home. Hopefully a few of them will go off to college.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm just wondering, what I'm getting at is there's the part time job. I mean there's the 5300 which like you said under other circumstances that could work. You've got a lot of children and then while your home payment is not as high as it could be, it's still a little bit higher than I'd want. It's like three or four hundred dollars higher than I'd want it to be all in and you're going to feel that. So I'm just wondering, my thought was like man, is there a world where you sell this house and take the cash and buy something a lot smaller but gets the job done and puts you in a position where you're not on the hook for paying a mortgage every month. It just gives you a little bit more security.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Caller]

Maybe if kids, if you don't want to go get a full time job, you can keep a part time job and your kids can share with you rooms.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure. My goal is to hopefully keep the house, my two till my two younger ones are the only two left so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That we could really downsize.

[Caller]

I get that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Which is another five years.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And so I think again this, this is just us talking to you because we love you. I, I, I think you have multiple things that you would love to do in a perfect way world, right. And one is be able to stay at home because you are trying to fill that gap that you really can't fill with a pretty amazing dad. He's gone. Right. And you're trying to be all things, which is amazing. And you're bringing in extra money, which is amazing. And you have a picture of not wanting to disrupt them from the home they've lived in forever. And that's amazing. And all those things are just too much. And so one or two or three of those pictures is going to have to change and shift or what's going to happen is your kids are going to have an exhausted fried mom.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Caller]

And I would rather them share a bedroom and have a mom that can breathe. I would rather them have a mom that works full time and gets home. And your 8 year old is growing up at a house where she lost her dad. She's going to learn how to make, she's going to learn how to help make dinner and she's going to have a purpose and be able to take some of the grief she's feeling and channel that as well. Right. All that stuff is gonna, it's just the, the reality that you find yourself in.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And my kids are amazing in that way. The days that I don't work, they all gather together and just, they know their jobs. You make dinner, you're the cleanup.

[Caller]

It's amazing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Homework, you're the get Angie ready for bed.

[Caller]

And you know, can I assure you that, that them having that purpose and responsibility as a gift to them, like long term, it's a way that they are help that they are integrating their loss of their dad into a purpose and shared experience. It's good and it's not what you drew up, but it's the best of a pretty rough situation.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

[Caller]

Do you have a math problem that you want to solve? Like I'd like to have this much money every month.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think one other question I have.

[Jade Warshaw]

I do have, have a money market account that has 30,000 in it. And I didn't know if I should just cash that out and put it in our savings as our. So that we have six months of money that we can access as our, you know, instead of it being in the brokerage account where we can't get to it, should it be in the savings account?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, if you wanted to transfer it, if you wanted to transfer it over to a high yield savings savings because you can get to it. Easier if there is an emergency. I'm not mad at that. A lot of times money markets, you can write checks out of them though, and you can access the money. But yeah, if you wanted to move it to some online high yield, I'm not mad at that. And that way, the way you're accessing it is through a transfer rather than, you know, writing a check or transferring it. They're, they're both basically the same thing. So you don't necessarily have to do that. The 100,000 in the brokerage, is that the only money you have or is there a retirement anywhere real quick? No, I don't have any retirement. That's the other reason. I think it's going to be really important for you to get something full time, even if there's some sort of benefits associated just to get you started. The good news in all of this is your youngest is school aged. So you've got this time, you've got this window in the middle of the day that you can work. And there's so many programs available to help with before school care and after school care. So I think you can do this. This is just a new way of life and that's really tough to start a brand new way of life.

[Caller]

It's heartbreaking, but there's a reality to it. So I just want to tell you I think you're amazing and it's pretty cool that you had a great husband.

[Jade Warshaw]

Buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and wondering where the heck your money's going, your first step is getting on a budget. Our team is hosting free budgeting trainings this month and at them you can learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget using EveryDollar. Plus, you can get the biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q and A. That's right. I said a live Q and A. That's, that's great. Spots are limited, so sign up for [e-mail] webinar today I almost said manana, but that means tomorrow, right?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. That was correct. Today Nancy is in Tucson, Arizona. What's up? What's up, Nancy?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi. Hi there. Here's my question. I'm 71. Should I wait till I die or should I start giving my kids and grandkids money that I have that is just sitting there and I'm not even barely using it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

How much is it?

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so altogether I have about 240,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't think that's as much. I think it is, though. Nancy.

[Caller]

Nancy, you're gonna live 20 more years. Years, true. 25 more years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you live by yourself right now?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, a grandson lives with me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

He moved in with me. The house is paid. I'm getting a big spousal annuity from my husband who worked for the government. He passed in 21.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How much is that annuity?

[Jade Warshaw]

So I'm getting about. I'm making about 98,000 off that a year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

I have 100,000 in another annuity that has earned 16,000 in interest. And then I have my 401k. That's 78,000. Then I have a money market that's 46,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But all of it equals 240, right? Is that what you told me?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, that's what I think. It's about 245, too.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Here's my thought. Here's what I'm thinking about.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm not against the idea of, like, hey, I have to wait. Do I have to wait until I die to give them everything? I'm not against wanting to do things that you can afford to do now to. To bless them or to give them gifts. The only thing I'm thinking about is your grandson lives with you now. Is he? Is he. Tell me about his status. Is he divorced? Is he single?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, no, he's single. He works 40 hours.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay? He. So what I'm thinking is what happens if your grandson meets a special lady and they get married and he moves out and as you age, let's say you're now 85 and you're still healthy.

[Jade Warshaw]

But fine with him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, let me play it out. Let's say you're still healthy, but really it's not good for you to live on your own, right? And if they say, hey, we want. Or let's say your health does start to decline and you need, like, maybe some in home care care or assistance, that's what this 240 is going to be there to help cover, because that's. That's a very, very expensive. So while I think there might be some that you could possibly do. I do think that 240 could go very quickly should you require some care at any point.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And just, just.

[Jade Warshaw]

I never.

[Caller]

I don't want to. I don't want to panic you. Okay. Can you say, I promise I won't panic?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, I promise.

[Caller]

Do you. Have you heard recently the kind of shape, the fiscal shape the government is in?

[Jade Warshaw]

You know what? No. Tell me it's not great. It's bad.

[Caller]

They're not doing great. All I can say is this. If you're my mom, my mom is a few years older than you. I would not say. You know what you should count on for the next 20 years? $100,000 a year annuity pack payout. You should just count on that. I would not tell her to do that for any other reason other than all day, every day. All I do is take calls from people who are promised this buyout, this payout by the government, this loan repayment plan, and it doesn't ever work out. And so it's amazing that you have that 98 grand. I would rather wait till you were 77 and that 250 grand has become 500,000 before you started giving away a little bit of little gifts and things like that. I just think you're going to live, by the way, when it be. If you. If you live to be 77 and then you get another seven years and you're 84, that 250 grand is going to be a million bucks because it doubles every seven years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. So you'd be missing out on a lot of growth.

[Caller]

You list a ton of growth, and then at 85, when you're still alive and kicking and you're just wrecking shop in the bingo hole, then you can start writing checks to grandkids.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, Because I'm still working, even.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, of course. Yeah, keep doing it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're doing your thing. Yeah.

[Caller]

Is there a specific request somebody's asking for?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I just keep seeing how it seems like everything's so expensive. You know, food and rent.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It is.

[Jade Warshaw]

I own my home. I have no bills, nothing. But I just want to maybe help them out a little by gifting some of this stuff.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, define what that would look like. Give us an example of something you've come across lately that you're like, man, should I do it? Tell us. Give us an example.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay. So look, my. I put 40,000 into a money market. It has earned 6,000 already. What if I gave some grandkids, kids, like, 5,000 each? Let's say so half of it would be gone for what? Just to make their life a little easier or. No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, that's. Well, that's where my question comes in. It's like just handing out money for the sake of handing out money feels a little frivolous. Now if you said, hey, my. My granddaughter is about to go to college and, you know, I know for a fact fact that, you know, she's working over the summer, I'd like to match some of what she's doing. Like, if there's a true purpose to it, that makes a lot more sense than just have this money. I feel like I should just give it away. And then my other question is, are you doing any other types of giving? Like, are you practicing generosity in other ways?

[Caller]

It sounds like you're. You feel guilty.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, yes, I do. Donations to a church, great. But I just feel like it's sitting there and times are tough for these young kids and I just wanted to be nice, but maybe I shouldn't be yet.

[Caller]

Well, the nicest thing you can do is not make them have to move you into one of their back bedrooms when you're 86.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Caller]

You know what I mean?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Caller]

So if you, if you had nine houses or you had. You had $1.7 million right now, now, and you had two great AMA. Amazing grandkids that were busting their butt and they just found themselves in that gap where they can't afford a house, they can't afford the rent, then I would say, yes, you have an opportunity to sit down and say, I'm going to cover your rent for a year to help you all get ahead. Like, that'd be amazing. This is me being honest. You don't have that kind of money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not yet.

[Caller]

You have 250 grand in the bank.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So keep working. What are. What are you making at your job?

[Caller]

But I want to see a triple.

[Jade Warshaw]

I was. I was a bartender for 45 years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Nancy, you're a gangster. I like you so much.

[Caller]

Are you still 10 and bar right now?

[Jade Warshaw]

No. God, I can't anymore. They want me to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But you can make a mean old fashioned. You can make a mean old fashioned, can't you?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Tom Collins.

[Jade Warshaw]

Those people will be dead soon. All the people that drink. Those will be dead. And now I was drinking other right now. But anyways, I host and they call me a manager at one job. I'm not a manager, but.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, whatever.

[Jade Warshaw]

They.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But here's the thing. Here's the thing, Nancy. You're making A good income. You are out here working. You're 71. I feel like I'm talking to a 41 year old. You're doing good. You got 240,000 saved. Just remember what John said. This lump sum is going to double every seven years and you've got for sure 14 more in you. So you're doing good with this. Keep putting aside side as much as as you are 85 year old you.

[Caller]

Is a millionaire and then that's we're gonna start talking about give a chunk.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yep, yep. Oh my gosh, that's John. What you said nails hits the nail on the head like the goal here. When you start aging, the goal is who's gonna take care of me and how can I make it to where it's not a burden on my kids. Right. So it's you putting around aside the money that you, you need so that if your kids need to hire an in home nurse, they can. If they need to move you to a nice facility where there's folks around the clock that take care of you, they can. Because it's not always feasible for people to become 100% full time caretakers when they have their own kids that they have to take care of and they have their own jobs that they have to work and they have to put food on their own table.

[Caller]

And this, this is unpopular to say but you only get stronger by lifting heavy weights. And if I see my 20 year old grandkids grinding, I know they're going to be really strong 40 year olds. So I don't want to take that grind from them unless it's really dire. So let's, let's protect the 60 year old then. That might have to take care of me one day.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's good.

[Jade Warshaw]

It.

[Dr. John Deloney]

On the debt free stage we got Tim from Dallas, Texas.

[Caller]

What's up Tim?

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's going on Tim?

[Caller]

Great to be back in the great state of Tennessee. All right, it is great to see you man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Tell us what brings you in this.

[Caller]

Actually you paid it all off. How much you pay off?

[Jade Warshaw]

333,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Whoa. Okay. You know my spidey sense is going off. Tell us more what kind of, kind of debt we was that?

[Jade Warshaw]

Two 401k loans, two car loans, personal loan, several credit cards, medical debt and the house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I knew it. I knew it, Tim. Wow. How long did it take you?

[Caller]

5 years and 11 months. Wow, look at that beautiful place you got there in Dallas, Texas. That's awesome.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow. It just hits different when it's paid off. Look at that and what were you earning during that time? Give us the range.

[Caller]

Started around 127 and finished. Finished up just recently, over 200.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Caller]

What do you do for a living, dude? I'm in. In the insurance game. Commercial insurance, property. Okay, man, okay. So what in the world happened when you decided I'm out of this? So it started in November of 2018. My wife died in 20, the month before. And I realized.

[Jade Warshaw]

And she.

[Caller]

And I talked about it some before she passed, and it was sudden and there was no way I could retire at that point.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I had three. I have three sons.

[Caller]

And there.

[Jade Warshaw]

I didn't.

[Caller]

I'm not living with my three sons. They're not taking care of me until I die. And so I knew I had to do something different and get out of it. Called our local church and said, hey.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you have a financial advisor or something? I need some help.

[Caller]

And they're like, oh, we. We got a FPU thing. I said, okay, who teaches it? And they said, oh, this guy who's an IT guy.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm like, what's an IT guy know about finances?

[Caller]

And he was great. His name's Dan Squires. Great guy. Been a big encouragement to me through the journey and.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But he was the guy that taught you FPU or.

[Caller]

Well, so he. I went to the FPU class that he taught.

[Jade Warshaw]

I had actually been through it and.

[Caller]

Failed the class like 15 years before, but he. He taught the class and then the next year I actually co taught it with him. And I've co taught three or four in a different church since then.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So when we say fpu, for those listening, Financial Peace University, it's basically our, you know, course on how to manage your money. That's what we're talking about. So someone shared it with you, and now you've turned around and shared this with other folks in your life by, you know, coordinating the classes?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow, that's really, really cool.

[Caller]

All right, so tell me about doing this. This is hard. Tell us about doing this by yourself. So one of the things they talk about in FPU is you need an account accountability partner.

[Jade Warshaw]

Or if you're married, then you and your spouse have to be on the same page.

[Caller]

And my wife and I were never.

[Jade Warshaw]

On the same page.

[Caller]

I was the nerd, she was the free spirit. And so we were never really on the same page. When she passed, I still had two sons at home. And I just. I got the Every Dollar app on my phone and I did the free one because I'm not paying for anything. I don't have to. And so I did the free, free one, which, the free one's pretty good.

[Jade Warshaw]

People, so get that one if you.

[Caller]

Don'T want to pay the extra. But I was doing that and it just helped me tune in on all the stuff. And like you guys say, every. It took me about two or three months to where I got it tuned in, but then when I got it dialed in, it was, it was, it was hard, but it wasn't that hard.

[Jade Warshaw]

Until I decided, hey, I'll just go ahead and pay off the house and the house.

[Caller]

I refinanced my house about a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

After my wife died. And I took it from about 24 years left on a 30 year down.

[Caller]

To a 10 year note.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I asked the bank, I said, do you all not have a five year mortgage?

[Caller]

They said, no, we don't have a five year mortgage. Sure enough, yeah. So I got it paid off in about five years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow. So that's really something. So you get the budget, you get it dialed, dialed in. What was the hardest sacrifice?

[Caller]

You know, I think last year was. It wasn't really a sacrifice, but it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Was the hardest time I had.

[Caller]

Last year I went through a lot of things. AC went out on the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Engine in my car started leaking coolant, so I had to replace it.

[Caller]

And there were a lot of things.

[Jade Warshaw]

That just came up last year that.

[Caller]

Were just sucking the money out and I was down to nothing in my, in my emergency fund.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, that's the worst.

[Caller]

And I would, I was to a point where I'm like, I need to get this car.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I was talking to a friend.

[Caller]

Of mine and they said, you know, you're, you're too close.

[Jade Warshaw]

Don't. Don't screw this up.

[Caller]

And so I didn't.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I paid cash for the car.

[Caller]

And it's, it's a hail damage Toyota. And like Dave says, it doesn't look.

[Jade Warshaw]

Pretty, but it gets 40 miles to.

[Caller]

The gallon, it's gonna last longer than you do. That's amazing. What was it like for your boys watching their dad grieve, mom go through that and then watch dad slowly, over the last five years, almost have a Phoenix moment rising up from the ash. I think I, I think it'll hit them later. My youngest is 18 now, and my other one is 22.

[Jade Warshaw]

My oldest one's 20. He was married before mom died.

[Caller]

And it was, I mean, at times it was hard for them just because. Hey, dad, can we go out to eat? No. Do you know why? Because it's not in the Budget. That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And now, you know, we can get.

[Caller]

Dad, can we go somewhere for dinner? Yep. That's cool. And it's. And my youngest one, he's going to college this fall.

[Jade Warshaw]

And.

[Caller]

And I've got three out of four years already funded.

[Jade Warshaw]

And by his. His sophomore year, I'll have the fourth year. Done.

[Caller]

Oh, amazing, dude.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, amazing. I love that photo.

[Caller]

That was. That was one of the things I. Cash flowed during it. I. I got a degree.

[Jade Warshaw]

Bible degree.

[Caller]

Oh, you got another degree? Yeah, I got a. I got a.

[Jade Warshaw]

Bible degree during this journey because when.

[Caller]

I retire, I'm not just going to.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sit around like you guys say.

[Caller]

I'm going to have an army encore.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I love that.

[Caller]

So I'm thinking about doing, you know, some chaplaincy or something like that. Just something that. To give me something to do. Not I won't need the money, but just to help out.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Help other people.

[Caller]

Good for you, brother.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's just so much here, like, you know, and I'm not discounting anybody else's journey by any means, but I mean, you. You did a lot in these past few years, and you did them while going through a lot emotional, emotionally, and so kudos to you for that. Is a lot of money paid off. It was a lot emotionally. Talk to that person right now, who's got whatever amount of debt and it feels too hard for them. Talk to them for a minute.

[Caller]

You know, you can get through a lot more than you think you can.

[Jade Warshaw]

We. We are taught, you know, okay, it's.

[Caller]

Okay to drop out when it's hard. And you know what? Sure it's hard.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. But you're never going to achieve what.

[Caller]

You could if you keep going. And I love one of the quotes you.

[Jade Warshaw]

You kick out all the time.

[Caller]

Jade, you can tell me you won't do something, but don't tell me you can't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Caller]

And that's what a lot of people do. Oh, I can't do this. Yeah, you can. I mean, I do marathons.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Caller]

And people say, oh, I could never do that. Yeah, you can. You just won't because you won't put in the work. And that's. That's what you've got to do with this. It's not easy to. But you know what?

[Jade Warshaw]

The other end is great.

[Dr. John Deloney]

100%, man. You got it. You got it. Wow. What a story. Anything else you want? I see you have your notes. Was there anything else you wanted to say?

[Jade Warshaw]

I was looking.

[Caller]

I was looking I think that's about it. You know, at the end of the day, what got me through all this was the Lord and my faith community.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I had a shirt that I.

[Caller]

Was going to wear today, but left it at home. And it, it's.

[Jade Warshaw]

It has the Hebrew symbols for loaves and fish on it. And we as Christians are called to bring what God gives us to him. And he does the miracle.

[Caller]

We don't do the miracle.

[Jade Warshaw]

We just bring what he finds, bring with.

[Caller]

And I had not been bringing what.

[Jade Warshaw]

He provided for years. And finally through this five or six years, I was able to do that, and he did the miracle. So he got us through this.

[Caller]

It's amazing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I love it. This is an incredible story. I love it. Thank you so much for coming here. Thank you for coming into this debt free stage. All right, you know what comes next. We got Tim from Dallas, Texas. He paid off $333,000. Lots of different debts, but including his mortgage, he did it, did it in about six years, making 127,000 to $200,000. Tim, you know what to do next. Count it down. Give us a debt free scream.

[Caller]

Three, two, one. I'm debt free.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, yeah, you are. Oh, my gosh. Wow. That's a story, man.

[Caller]

That's one of those that people sitting at home saying, I can't. Yeah, you can.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You can. You sure can. And what I love about this is it was all sharing. It was the guy, I think he said it was named as Stan at work that, you know, at church that taught him fpu. And then he turned around and taught a bunch of other people fpu. But this is what's possible, guys, when you work this Ramsey plan. So we say all the time, man, thank you for sharing. But this is, you can share this kind of life change and you can do it by sharing it on the Ramsey 101 playlist. You work your butt off for your.

[Jade Warshaw]

Money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramseysolutions.com smartvestor to get connected. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros.

[Caller]

Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The Ramsay show. Scripture and quote of the day, Isaiah 40:31. But those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not be faint. And do you want to know what I do? I go straight to Remember the Titans. Like eagles, y' all. Like eagles, y' all remember that?

[Caller]

Remember the Titans.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you remember it?

[Caller]

No. No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, gosh. Come on, John. Anybody in the booth, Remember. Remember? I remember.

[Caller]

Strong side. I remember that. I don't remember that song.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Gosh. Somebody help me. All right, let's go to the quote. Lars Ol Coleridge says, stretching your parameters is a necessity if you want to keep growing.

[Caller]

Who's Lars?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Huh?

[Caller]

Who is Lars?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't know.

[Caller]

He's the drummer of Metallica. Come on. Oh, oh, oh.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're right. Okay. Okay. I didn't know who it would be.

[Caller]

All right, if we.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If I had known that we were in a musical context, I think it would have rung a bell, but because that's fair. Just listen. You didn't know remember the Titans either, John. We both have holes in our abilities. We have flaws. Let's go to Jay in Savannah, Georgia. What's up, Jay?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi, there.

[Caller]

Yeah, a bit of a predicament here.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I.

[Caller]

When I was 21, I went to medical school in the Caribbean.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wasn't a good.

[Jade Warshaw]

It was actually destroyed by a hurricane.

[Caller]

So I left. I came back, and long story short, I went to a different medical school. And then I decided to drop it. And then a few years ago, I.

[Jade Warshaw]

Kind of went back, and I have.

[Caller]

Almost 600,000 in student loans, and I.

[Jade Warshaw]

Made 52,000 a year right now as a contracting consultant, technical writer.

[Caller]

And I just. I'm totally lost because I'm on an.

[Jade Warshaw]

Idr, an Income Driven Repayment Plan.

[Caller]

But it's like, I can never buy a house or, you know, there's no purpose in even saving for retirement.

[Jade Warshaw]

I. I just.

[Caller]

I don't know what to do. Okay, so you're talking to two people. We haven't been there, but we've. We've been there. Six figures in the hole, don't even know what to do. Making 30, 40, $50,000 a year. Like, Jade's been there. I've been there. Okay, Your situation's worse, But I know how scary that is. I know how futile it feels. It just feels like there's no way. Right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caller]

I hate that for you, man. I mean, I just, you know, making my little payments for the IDR, bringing some cash.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm living with my parents.

[Caller]

I'm 30 years old. Yeah. And it's like I'm just living day by day.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But then I kind of think long.

[Jade Warshaw]

Term and it's like, you know, I'm.

[Caller]

Just kind of giving up. So I don't know, just thought I'd.

[Jade Warshaw]

Give you guys a call.

[Caller]

No, absolutely, man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, John is right. We've both been to our version of this and you're right, it can feel really, really dark. Um, what are you doing now that's earning you 50k a year?

[Jade Warshaw]

So, yeah, I'm a technical writer for government proposal writing.

[Caller]

I help small businesses win government contracts.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's enjoyable work.

[Caller]

You know, I get to help tiny companies, you know, expand and win contracts, but, you know, I'm just a technical.

[Jade Warshaw]

Writer slash proposal developer.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How'd you get into that? Did you just fall into it?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it was your friend.

[Caller]

They, they were doing it. And then I actually started the company.

[Jade Warshaw]

As like a telemarketer almost. But then I kind of showed them.

[Caller]

That I, you know, able to do this in depth research that's needed for writing these proposals. So I kind of followed that and.

[Jade Warshaw]

Then, you know, now I'm actually the head of the department, but it's a startup where I work.

[Caller]

Even gonna be viable. That's. That's one of the first jobs gonna go, isn't it? Well, hopefully not. Although, I mean, the federal government is.

[Jade Warshaw]

Always going to be around and they're.

[Caller]

Always going to be. No, but I'm talking about Chat GBT is going to take those jobs jobs, aren't they? So yes and no. We do use Chat GPT, but the.

[Jade Warshaw]

Contracting offices look for you have to.

[Caller]

Really follow the performance work statement and write quality work. Okay, that's fair.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, that's a whole different debate we can have. But okay, let me, let me, let me tell you something, Jay, that helped my husband and I and I'm, I'm precursoring this by telling you it's going to be one of those easier said than done things, but at least it can inform how your thought process is going forward with this. So when my husband and I looked up and realized we had almost $500,000 of debt and we were making, you know, 30,000, and then it went up the next year to 40, and then the next year to 40, you know, 55. And we are steadily growing up, but we hit a point where it was like, hey, even if we're working like dogs as much as we can, there's A ceiling to what it is that we're doing. And if we hit that ceiling, it's still going to, to take us a decade to pay this debt off. Right? And you, you're feeling that right now. And so for me, what I started thinking is outside of the box and it was like, what can I do exponentially to get my income up? What am I good at? What does the world need that I can offer, that I can create, something that I can pay myself, what I need to make in order to pay these things off? So what I'm saying is you might need to get entrepreneurial role here. If there's not a career field that's in your purview that you're like, hey, I'm going to go for that. And I know it's going to make me the salary I need to get out of this in the next seven, eight years. You need to be thinking about what can I create? What do my skill sets say that I can do and can I build the muscle and build that on my own and learn and grow into that? Because whenever we talk about these, on this, on the lowest level, whenever we talk about debt issues, right, there's two sides of it. There's, hey, you cut your expenses, right? But that's not going to work for you, right? Cutting your expenses is down. That's, forget that. It could give you some change in your pocket, but you know, that's pennies compared to the debt you're facing. So the other side of this is the income side. And again, I'm telling you, it sounds easier said than done. But that's where we go into the long term picture of getting out of debt has stages and there's some things that you can do that'll make, you know, small cuts in this going forward. But how can you grow over leaps and bounds? And that, that is in that shift in income, whether it's like, like I said, shifting to a career where you can see, hey, yeah, I could make some substantial money that I could put some real dents into this. And if you don't see it, creating it and just knowing that there is a timeline involved there, you know, it took a decade for my husband and I to not only pay off the debt, but move into like a baby step three situation. And that was years of growing a business and growing our, our careers to where it, it fit the $500,000 of debt. And it's the same thing with you, growing your career to where that hold shovel ratio is doable. And what I want to encourage you is that that is a journey. And it's okay that it's a journey and it's okay that you feel like you have wasted years of your life. It's okay that you feel that way. I just want to encourage you to know that on this side of it, I can tell you that it's not okay waste if you just keep walking this thing forward and just putting one foot in front of the other like you said, taking it day by day, because it literally is that. I promise you, I promise you're gonna look up in 10, 11 years from now and you're gonna go, man, I. I did the impossible. I. I was consistent and I just went day after day and I did this. And I'm so glad that I went on that day journey because I figured out who the real J is and how strong the real J is and how much that I can take and how much I can deal it out. And I just, I've already had some.

[Caller]

Clients, you know, saying that they want.

[Jade Warshaw]

To work with me directly, but at.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The same time, I don't want to.

[Caller]

Betray my, my employer.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you have any insight on how.

[Caller]

To kind of navigate, you know, starting my own.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Thing. Which I'm currently doing with some previous client. I actually make more money doing that than I do at my job. Of course the job, it's steady and it's stable and there's an office. Steady and stable is not going to get you out of this, brother.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. You got to take some leaps and bounds.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I guess you guys would kind.

[Caller]

Of recommend that I just go full force with my own thing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I mean I've not necessarily both. And it's. Yeah, there you go. Okay.

[Caller]

And be a person of integrity. And absolutely the temptation is going to be to cut corners. Don't do that. You don't want to be that guy. You don't want to have. You don't owe $600,000 and go to jail. Right. Or be unemployed. But within your, like, within the bounds of, of your integrity.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. You can't take as long as it's not work that you're taking from your employer, if that makes sense.

[Caller]

And if you have a non compete, that's what you sign. That's what you sign. So you can't do that. But if you don't have a non compete and you're a person of integrity, take every single solitary side hustle you could possibly imagine.

[Dr. John Deloney]

100%.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, I've a client who is at a previous company and there's no non compete there.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And he was so happy with my.

[Jade Warshaw]

Work that he said that he'd introduce.

[Caller]

Me to his piss people so that could get more.

[Jade Warshaw]

More people for myself.

[Caller]

And I do that while I'm still.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Working at this job and do that all ethically. Yeah, legally do that, man. For you. Yes. Networking, talking, telling people, as many people as you can start to get to know that's in that field and you can see start building that network out. Yeah, that's 100% how you grow this thing because that's how people know who you are and what you do and what you can offer.

[Caller]

You say yes to everything. You put every penny towards this thing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Caller]

Yeah. Make it happen, brother.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Make it happen. I'm going to try this one more time, John. Like eagles, y' all.

[Caller]

Remember the Titans strong side.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's it. That's the one. Everybody knows this has been the Rams show.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey, you guys. I was shocked to learn that 88% of you out there are sharing the Ramsey show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey101 YouTube playlist. A quick start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsey plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Know where to start.

[Jade Warshaw]

So here's what's inside. What the baby steps are and why they actually work. How the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast. And how to build wealth and invest for the future and so much more. So here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube playlist. Copy it, text it, send it in a group chat. Just say, hey, I thought this might help because one playlist shared at the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right time could be the turning point.

[Jade Warshaw]

One share, one playlist, one step could change everything for that one person in your life. So click the link, share the Ramsey show and let's. And let's help someone out there start winning with money.