Don’t Let Other People’s Opinions Derail Your Future

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Don’t Let Other People’s Opinions Derail Your Future"

Episode Information:

• Title: Don’t Let Other People’s Opinions Derail Your Future
• Release Date: July 10, 2025
• Host: Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney

Overview: In this episode of The Ramsey Show, host Dave Ramsey, alongside co-host Dr. John DeLoney, delves into a variety of financial and personal dilemmas presented by listeners. The central theme revolves around making independent decisions that align with one’s values and financial goals, rather than being swayed by external opinions or societal pressures.

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1. Navigating Relationships and Financial Values

Caller: Hannah from Fort Wayne, Indiana

Hannah seeks advice on dating someone she deeply likes who earns significantly less than her and sends much of his income back to his family in Venezuela. She grapples with whether financial disparities should influence her relationship choices.

• Dave Ramsey ([01:40]): "Financial instability is not a deal killer. The financial instability though is not the problem, it's the symptom."

• Dr. John DeLoney ([02:13]): "It depends on where you're coming from."

Insight: Ramsey emphasizes understanding the underlying reasons for financial disparities, advocating for evaluating character traits over mere income differences. Dr. DeLoney highlights the importance of personal values and cultural perspectives in relationships.

2. Acquiring a Business Amid Financial Uncertainty

Caller: Alex from Canada

Alex, a digital product manager recently laid off, considers purchasing a floating dock installation business from a 74-year-old owner. He faces challenges with seller financing and lacks the necessary funds.

• Dave Ramsey ([15:00]): "I don't think you're getting this deal. You're too far apart on price and terms."

• Dr. John DeLoney ([18:31]): "There's something about having to force something from every corner of the table to make it work. There's nothing in this entire story that was a hot knife through butter."

Insight: Ramsey advises caution against deals that demand excessive financial strain, while DeLoney underscores the importance of alignment and peace in business decisions.

3. Balancing Part-Time Work and College Commitments

Caller: Brian from Charlotte, North Carolina

Brian contemplates taking a part-time job while pursuing an accounting and risk management degree. He has significant savings and seeks guidance on whether to prioritize work or solely focus on studies.

• Dr. John DeLoney ([22:31]): "Get practical real-life experience adjacent to the thing that you think you want to do."

• Dave Ramsey ([25:39]): "The answer to your question is yes, work part time."

Insight: Both hosts advocate for gaining work experience related to one's field of study to enhance employability and practical understanding, while also supporting the decision to work part-time as a supplementary income source.

4. Prioritizing Savings for Life Goals

Caller: Bryce from Huntsville

Bryce, a recent master's graduate in IT, seeks advice on how to prioritize saving for an engagement ring, future home, and retirement amidst a substantial income.

• Dave Ramsey ([29:06]): "It's okay to pile up cash for a down payment, wedding, and ring. That's not bad."

• Dr. John DeLoney ([30:19]): "It's a big win."

Insight: The recommendation is to focus on immediate financial goals using available savings before accelerating long-term investments, ensuring debt-free progress aligns with personal milestones.

5. Handling Partner’s Tax Debt Before Engagement

Caller: Jared from Salt Lake City, Utah

Jared's girlfriend has $70,000 in joint tax debt from her previous marriage. He seeks guidance on how to navigate this financial hurdle before proposing marriage.

• Dave Ramsey ([41:13]): "Investigate the innocent spouse provision."

• Dr. John DeLoney ([79:34]): "She'll have some counseling necessary PTSD out of this cult."

Insight: Ramsey advises consulting tax professionals to explore legal protections like the innocent spouse provision, allowing Jared and his partner to address the debt responsibly without jeopardizing future finances.

6. Saving Strategies for Life Events and Retirement

Caller: Caitlin from Philadelphia

Caitlin, recently retired from teaching and following Ramsey’s Baby Steps, is saving for a house, engagement ring, and retirement. She questions whether to allocate more towards retirement savings.

• Dave Ramsey ([29:10]): "Don't ever call your girlfriend and import tax again."

• Dr. John DeLoney ([30:19]): "It's a big win."

Insight: The hosts recommend focusing on saving for immediate life events without over-extending into retirement savings prematurely, ensuring financial stability aligns with personal life plans.

7. Deciding to Sell Rental Properties to Reduce Debt

Caller: Jay from Canada

Jay owns three commercial warehouse bays and a personal home, each with outstanding mortgages. He contemplates selling some properties to eliminate debt but is concerned about the financial implications.

• Dave Ramsey ([57:20]): "There's three possible scenarios...a) keep them all, b) sell one, c) sell all."

• Dr. John DeLoney ([62:08]): "It's the track record of eight years. Always, always full."

Insight: Ramsey outlines clear options for debt reduction, advocating for selling underperforming or unwanted assets to achieve financial freedom faster. DeLoney reinforces the stability and success Jay has had with fully occupied properties.

8. Managing Finances After the Loss of a Child

Caller: Ruth from Philadelphia

Ruth seeks advice on using her late son's $95,000 life insurance payout to pay off the remaining $21,000 mortgage. She is concerned about potential legal issues following her son's accidental death caused by another driver.

• Dr. John DeLoney ([79:04]): "Find a small thing to plug into and disable negative spiral."

• Dave Ramsey ([78:37]): "Set the money in a high-yield savings account and forget it's there until it’s six months old."

Insight: The hosts recommend prioritizing emotional healing over immediate financial actions, suggesting holding funds in accessible accounts to allow time for grieving before making significant financial decisions like paying off the mortgage.

9. Aligning Financial Goals in Relationships

Caller: Preston from Columbus, Ohio

Preston discusses managing joint finances with his wife while adhering to Dave’s Baby Steps. They face challenges in balancing individual financial priorities.

• Dave Ramsey ([83:06]): "Let's put the right or wrong aside and say, how can we be united?"

• Dr. John DeLoney ([84:39]): "You have to deal with underlying power struggles."

Insight: Ramsey emphasizes the importance of aligning financial goals and fostering teamwork in relationships, moving beyond individual agendas to achieve mutual financial peace.

10. Overcoming Fear in Starting a New Career

Caller: Alice from Seattle

Alice, a 28-year-old literary studies graduate, fears starting a career in editing due to concerns about disappointing future employers and imposter syndrome.

• Dr. John DeLoney ([117:38]): "You have an unrealistic expectation that everything's going to be perfect, and it's not."

• Dave Ramsey ([121:10]): "Reframe it and say, it's not failure. I'm experimenting."

Insight: The speakers encourage Alice to adopt a growth mindset, viewing career challenges as learning opportunities rather than fearing perfection, and to engage in practical steps like job applications and networking to build confidence.

11. Remarrying After Divorce While Managing Alimony

Caller: Anne Marie from Reno, Nevada

Anne Marie, recently divorced, faces a dilemma of remarrying without losing $5,000 monthly alimony. She contemplates commitment ceremonies versus legal marriage.

• Dave Ramsey ([113:16]): "It’s not a financial decision. It’s about ethics and principles."

• Dr. John DeLoney ([113:21]): "Sell the house you can’t afford and buy a house you can afford."

Insight: Ramsey advises maintaining ethical standards by adhering to the divorce decree and considering financial independence strategies, such as a lump-sum buyout, to preserve future marriage possibilities without financial penalties.

12. Tackling Consumer Debt and Frugal Living

Caller: Kagan from San Angelo, Texas

Kagan and his wife live in an RV to save money and pay off a substantial debt of $120,441, which includes credit cards, a truck loan, and an RV loan.

• Dave Ramsey ([100:00]): "Sell the RV and truck to eliminate high-interest debt."

• Dr. John DeLoney ([102:22]): "Settle for a smaller, affordable living situation to accelerate debt repayment."

Insight: The hosts advocate for liquidating depreciating assets like RVs and trucks to reduce consumer debt rapidly, emphasizing frugal living as a path to financial freedom.

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Key Takeaways:

1. Value Alignment: Prioritize relationships and partnerships that align with your financial values and personal goals to ensure long-term harmony and support.
2. Prudent Financial Decisions: Carefully evaluate business acquisitions and major financial commitments to avoid overextension and maintain financial stability.
3. Work and Education Balance: Gaining relevant work experience while pursuing education enhances employability and practical understanding of chosen fields.
4. Goal Prioritization: Focus savings on immediate life goals before accelerating long-term investments to build a solid financial foundation.
5. Debt Management: Strategically eliminate high-interest and depreciating assets to reduce debt efficiently and regain financial control.
6. Emotional Well-being: Allow time for emotional healing in times of personal loss before making significant financial decisions.
7. Career Confidence: Overcome fears and unrealistic expectations by viewing career challenges as opportunities for growth and learning.
8. Ethical Financial Practices: Adhere to ethical standards in financial agreements to maintain integrity and future relationship possibilities.
9. Frugal Living: Embrace simple living arrangements to eliminate consumer debt swiftly and achieve financial freedom.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey ([01:40]): "Financial instability is not a deal killer. The financial instability though is not the problem, it's the symptom."
• Dr. John DeLoney ([22:31]): "Get practical real-life experience adjacent to the thing that you think you want to do."
• Dave Ramsey ([57:20]): "There's three possible scenarios...a) keep them all, b) sell one, c) sell all."

Conclusion: This episode of The Ramsey Show reinforces the importance of making independent, value-driven financial and personal decisions. By addressing listeners' diverse challenges—from relationship dynamics influenced by finances to overcoming career fears—the hosts provide actionable advice grounded in financial prudence and personal integrity. The recurring emphasis on aligning actions with long-term goals and maintaining ethical standards serves as a guiding principle for listeners striving to build wealth and secure their futures.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show. Where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, PhD in counseling, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show, number one best selling author, he's my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Hannah's in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi Hannah, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my question is, is I am 24 years old and I would consider myself like actively dating. And I've been on many dates with guys that are well established and they make good money and they're nice, but I haven't really liked any of them. But I just met a boy and I got, I'm smitten with him. I like him a lot. But he does make significantly less and he has significantly less than me. And I have some goals that I would like to like make for my future. So I guess can I choose maybe to not be with somebody because of their finances? All my friends say, no, money isn't everything, but it is something.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, money's not everything. And financial instability is not a deal killer. The financial instability though is not the problem, it's the symptom. And what you're worried about is the problem that's causing his underperformance and his instability. And if he's irresponsible, lazy, impulsive, immature, those are reasons not to date someone.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But if he's a schoolteacher and he.

[Dave Ramsey]

Makes 50 grand and you make 200.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're like, then I would say you don't deserve him. So it kind of depends on where you're coming from.

[Caller]

Okay, so he is just getting here. He's been here for two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's just what?

[Caller]

He moved here from Venezuela two years ago. So he sends a lot of his money to his family. He works really hard, but he sends a lot of his money and pays for his sister's school.

[Dave Ramsey]

He. And that would not be unusual for someone that gets to come to America legally and has a family in an area that is not as blessed. A lot of people send a lot of money back home.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is that also what attracts you to him is that he's so generous and kind and he's hard working.

[Caller]

He is very generous, he's very kind, he's handsome. I like him a lot.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And probably the things that you love about him are what's driving you crazy. That's just called being in a relationship with somebody.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I think, I think what you've got to decide is because he's not going to stop helping his family in another country because of you, no matter how much he says he is, it's not going to happen. So are you going to make peace with that and are you able to go forward? Okay. Because he's not. And I'm not saying whether he should or shouldn't. I'm happy that he's generous, but it also, you know, an American view of that is different than a Hispanic view of that, a Latino view of that, because Latinos do a much better job of taking care of extended family than Americans do. Americans are like, you're 18, hit the road, good luck. Right, Right. And I hope you make it. And that was kind of like my dad. Right. Just kick me out. Right. It's like, swim, boy, because you're gonna drown if you don't kind of thing. But that's not true in that culture that he's coming from. In that culture culture, he is duty bound by everything that is in his DNA, his cultural DNA, to support the family back home. He's not going to stop. And that means he's a person of honor in his culture. But in our culture, we might call that irresponsible if he doesn't first take care of his own household. And neither one are right or wrong. It's just a viewpoint.

[Caller]

Yeah. I worked hard to get to where I'm at, so I'm like really conflicted with it. All my friends like him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But hold on, hold on. Here's what you have to be careful of. Don't posit yourself as better than him.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's just different.

[Caller]

No, he works really hard, but it is very different. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But he doesn't keep anything. He sends it all to Venezuela.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or some of it to Venezuela. Just not as much as you want him to have. So if you'd rather have a number over a person of character.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I think you can have both. You could just choose to have a person that is more aligned culturally with you and is not going to send all their money to their mom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You get to decide that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, and, and I'll say this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just in, in a dating, just because it, it hurts doesn't mean it's not the right thing. So just because you'll be sad that this one doesn't work out because your values don't align doesn't mean it's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

The right move, but it doesn't mean you're shallow and you're choosing money. It just says, I'm so uncomfortable with these differences that I can't get along and I don't have a reasonable expectation they're gonna shift.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I want.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so he's not a project, he's a person. We're not gonna. Hope we change him. God help you. No, don't do that one. And so, you know, I think you've gotta get comfortable with who he is as a part of your. And develop a new. A new life plan that includes both ways of doing things in one household. And if you can do that, then it's not a number, you know, and so forth, but you're just recognizing that it's not going to be the way you had it dreamed, the way you had it plotted out as you walk down the aisle. And, you know, it's also okay. And it doesn't make you shallow or wrong to say, I can't do this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Absolutely. And that will still hurt because she likes him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think you can juxtapose it with, the only guys I'm going to fall in love with are guys that are this way versus the guys that are predictable. That's not true either. No, that's not true either. I had the same sandwich today. We were laughing about it in the cafe, because when I walk up, they start making it and it's like, you know, predictable is not bad. Okay? It doesn't make you a bad human being. And, you know, you want an environment where you're predicting things, and that's a normal safety mechanism that we all have. And so I probably ought to branch out on my sandwich choice.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was going to say, when. Over the course of my marriage, especially when I was into every fad diet possible, my wife, at the beginning of every month, she'd say, hey, what are we this month? And I was like, raw, V. And she's like, oh, God, okay. And then the next month, she's, what? What are we this month? And she would make it a go, she'd give it a run. And she loves that we're a little bit more consistent now.

[Dave Ramsey]

A little bit less boring is not bad. Especially when it comes to stuff like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Consistency can be kind of good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, don't reduce this to an argument over that you're all about money. It's not that shallow. It's that the inconsistent instability that this represents you're not about. And that's okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't reduce it to my set of values are better than yours. It, like Dave said, perfectly like it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I just don't lie.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

In his culture he has been a person of honor. And in your culture you are being a person of honor. And you all have to decide can we come together here or these are, these are just two big value ships going past each other in the night and we got to meet each other and we had some great dates and you're a wonderful guy and you're a wonderful girl and we're going to move on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you'll get to decide that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. Yeah.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Alex is in Canada. Hey Alex, welcome to the Ramsey show.

[Caller]

Hi David, thank you so much for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I have a quick question. So a bit of a background. So I work or worked as a digital product manager for the last eight plus years. Just within like the tech industry. Unfortunately in beginning of March our company did a bunch of layoffs and I was, I was a part of that cut and so as of March I have been unemployed looking for, for, for work and in the meantime we've been living off of our savings. We don't have any sort of big payments like car payments or anything like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why aren't you freelance? Are. If you're a digital project manager you ought to be covered up in freelance work.

[Caller]

It that has not been the case for me. I've. I've been. I've been applying best to find the work but it just hasn't been. It just has been working out for me to.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean how are your buddies that are freelancing getting work as a freelancer? I'm not talking about a new job. I'm Talking about just freelancing.

[Caller]

Right. So I, my specialty is product management. So I help companies develop software and scale some of their products. So usually it's not necessarily freelance. It would be, you know, anywhere from like a year plus a gig to get those. So there are very few short term freelance gigs for product management that I've been able to come across.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I don't, I wouldn't doubt that. That does, we've got, because we've got digital project managers on our team here and I know what they do, so I'm not arguing that point. So yeah, you're right. It's not like you're, you know, short term project where you're writing code or something because that's not what you do. Yeah. All right. Okay. So onto your question. I got, I got your picture. You're struggling finding work. I got it. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. So in the meantime, as mentioned, we've been living off of savings in Canada. We have things like employment insurance here. But I've been also helping do random jobs for folks like house pressure washing loading, dock installations and so forth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Caller]

Kind of keep me going. Now there is this gentleman that I came across and I've been helping him with floating dock installations. He is 74 years old, he's been running a business for 16 years now and he is looking to retire and sell that business. So I thought it might be a good idea for me to look into acquiring that business. I've, I've done several doc installations like it's not necessarily rocket science. And yeah, he as mentioned he's 74, he doesn't do any sort of outside marketing. All of the leads that he gets are from the actual manufacturer or folks who find the, the manufacturer online to fill out a form. He's a regional dealer here in Canada and so he just gets all of his incoming leads through those forms. So he doesn't do any personal Google Ads or any sort of forms of advertising. And so with a digital background, I'm thinking of ways how this could scale and how I could use my skills to scale the business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you want to talk to him about buying it? I got it. Okay, so what are we going to do?

[Caller]

So, so he initially wants 300,000 for the business. The business is net profiting annually in around 100k a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

After he pays himself a salary.

[Caller]

No. So he is an owner operator.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I mean some owner operators have enough sense to pay themselves a salary. So he's not. Okay. All right. And so he's not really netting 100k. Because if he paid a manager to do the work that he's doing, he'd be netting 50 or 40, correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's not worth 300.

[Caller]

Okay. So that, that was my, my initial thought process as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And so I've brought it up to him. But I talked to him about potentially acquiring. Acquiring the business through a seller financing, which he seemed initially open to, but because after he talked to his wife, because he's 74, he's kind of driving into the sunset. He wants a certain amount upfront, like $100,000 upfront, which is probably about all.

[Dave Ramsey]

The whole things worth anyway, which was my.

[Caller]

My guess as well. So I currently do not have the funds to. To give him even 100k for the business. Right. Because I do not want to put my family into any further financial uncertainty.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you don't have. But you don't have any. You don't have the money anyway.

[Caller]

And I don't have the money anyway.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Caller]

And he doesn't want to do 100% seller financing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I was speaking to my parents and they offered to. They are in the process of selling one of their properties overseas in Eastern Europe. And so they offered to sell that property and give some of that. Some of that money towards acquiring this business should the seller and I reach. Reach a deal. And so I wanted to get 100 grand, not 100 grand, it would be about 50,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So where are you going to get the other 50,000? You don't have it?

[Caller]

I don't have it. And so this is where I would either need to come up with some creative way with the seller or negotiate with him on. On the down payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not a down payment. It's a payment. A down payment implies that there's a balance left. If you put 50 down and he finances 50, that's fine. But that's a long way from 300 and him riding off in an RV.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think you're getting this deal. You're too far apart on price and terms. And your parents are giving you this money. It's not a loan. So you just lied.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's my worry for you, brother.

[Caller]

There are some strings attached to it. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. No, there's too much desperation in this. As soon as I get desperate, I get stupid. And you're pushing this from every corner of the table to make this tablecloth fit, and it's not going to fit. So I liked where we were going in general, and I love the fact that you're willing to do anything to try to feed your family, from pressure washing to loading dock installs, to freelance, to getting another job, Anything. But let's don't get too desperate to be in the loading dock business to where we've got people pulling us from every side. We got the former owner pulling us. We got Mama pulling us. Everybody's pulling our hair out. We're going to be bald, man. Don't do it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What stops you from just starting this on your own?

[Dave Ramsey]

He doesn't have all the dealership connections. Okay, this guy owns. This guy owns the territory.

[Caller]

He owns the territory, correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's harder, but, I mean, you can go build decks on the backs of houses or something. I. Alex, I'm going to tell you this. Be careful when you have to force something from every corner of the table to make it work. There's nothing in this entire story that was a hot knife through butter. There's. You know, you got stuff coming at you from every angle telling you not to do this. And that's not just God challenging you. It's him telling you don't do it. There's a difference.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And my fear for you, Alex, you have already done the digital marketing math in your head, and you've already spent the money that you think you will make on top of this business.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, but you don't pay somebody for what you might grow it to. You pay them for what it is. And right now, it is a business that's worth somewhere around 150, 200k max, not 300. And he's not got any other buyers. I don't care what his wife thinks.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dave, I'm asking you this, and you should be asking me, but I'm asking you, what is the psychology behind. So let's say this guy says, I make 100 grand. And Alex here says, man, if I digitally market this, I can scale it and do this and this and this, I could make 500 grand next year. If he doesn't do this deal, his mind and body will feel like he just lost half a million dollars. You know what I mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's just fomo. It's just fear of missing out. That's all it is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But there's this weird thing in our heads. We make up a number, and if anything, less than that number, we feel like we're getting ripped off and we lost it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's just. It's. It's a. You know, it's a strange loss.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, one time I put an unrealistic price on a piece of real estate. Yeah, really high. And then when a guy came in under that, I was like pissed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He took 500 grand from me.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was unrealistically priced to start with. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or if you call me fishing for a California sucker, fish, come on my office. And you gave me 100 grand. But in my head I thought it was gonna be 200. I'd be like, yeah, that dude took 100 grand for me today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. That's so crazy. So it's a bass ackwards thing, but that's the way it is. So. No. Yeah, honey, I listen, I love business and I love your entrepreneur skills and I love your, your work ethic and your willingness to humble yourself and go do whatever it takes to get something going. You're a good man. You're going to find something. But don't step up in a bear trap in the process. And this smells like bear spray to you know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Brian is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey Brian, what's up?

[Caller]

Pretty good. Thank you all for taking the call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure, man. How can we help?

[Caller]

Appreciate it. So I was wondering your opinion on if I should work a part time job whenever I start college this fall. I have about $40,000 saved up and I didn't know if I should just use the savings or Try to make a little bit of money on the side.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you want to do?

[Caller]

I actually don't know, to be honest with you, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't know what you want to do or you don't know what you should do?

[Caller]

I don't know what I should do.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you want to do?

[Caller]

I want to work part time, probably about like 15 or 20 hours a week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Doing what?

[Caller]

Probably waiting tables or some kind of job like at Walmart.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you enjoy just earning money?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You've grown up in a house where your dad and mom taught you to work?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, John's got a PhD in higher education as a former dean of students, so I'll let him chime in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I mean at the end of the day, dude, you're gonna get conflicting data from all over the places. I would strongly recommend you start practicing the thing that you think you want to do one day. And so what are you going to college for?

[Caller]

So I'm going to college for accounting and risk management.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Get a job in a local bank as a teller part time or an.

[Dave Ramsey]

Accounting firm as an intern.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Even if you're answering the phones at a local account accountants like office, you're going to hear stories, you're going to see how the room flows. You're going to find out if you want to be a part of this world for the rest of your life. And by the way, you won't, whatever you get out of college doing, you won't be doing for the rest of your life. That's me being traumatic. But the number of students let me, I was a part of a college of education. They used to do student teaching. Your senior year in college and the number of students who would take all their education courses, get all the way to the end, do their first round of student teaching and realize, oh, I hate kids and it's too late. Right? You got three and a half years of college. So they moved it to where you have to have classroom experience with young, with kids before we're going to take your money for the next four years. Which was awesome and integris of that department. But you start being around this world in whatever way you can. And let me tell you, my best friends on planet Earth is a senior leader at a big bank. He'll tell you, I would much rather somebody who knows how a bank works because when you sit down here to do risk management at our bank or a cost accounting, he would rather hire someone who knows how a bank works because he's going to teach you how to do his balance sheets. Right. And so I would, I would suggest, yes, start getting practical real life experience adjacent to the thing that you think you want to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a great, great answer. I would also just say yes, work because an employer likes to see someone that knows how to do more than just go to school. When we're hiring someone, we don't hire a lot of people straight out of college. At Ramsey, we hire a few here and there. But when we do, we very seldom would hire someone that didn't work because I don't want to have to teach them to work. I ain't got time for that. You got to already know how to do that before you get here. And some of these people, they, you know, they got confused. They were born on third base, thought they hit a triple. And so it's good if you've been working on something ahead of time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me tell you another weird thing, and I'm sure there's a psychological trope to this, your body. And I say that not being cheesy, what feels busy to you will be established pretty early. So if you just go say I'm going to live the first semester off my savings and I'm just going to go get the feel of college, I'm going to take my 15 hours and I'm going to go to the join an intramural team, which again, I think that's important too. But like I'm going to go do these things, you're going to feel busy and then second semester comes and you want to add a part time job, you're going to start to ask, I don't even know where to put this, but if you start with a part time job and one of the things you do after move in and after freshman orientation is you go find a job at a local place and you start working, your body will adapt to what is busy and you will begin to make things work. And you already have savings, so I can already tell you're not afraid to work. And you're a good thinker and you're a good doer. So go ahead and go out of the gate, man, and you can always back off. But it's much harder when you already feel busy to add something else to it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good point. So the answer to your question is yes, work part time. And an even better answer, the question is work part time in the field that you think you're going to move.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Towards or somewhere close, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Something where you get, you know, it's different. I mean if you're going to be in banking, don't be waiting tables if you got the option. Waiting tables, not bad though. But if you're going to be in the restaurant business, certainly do that. But you know, just figure out where we're going in general and aim at that. Try to land in there. But if nothing else, wait tables, that's okay too. So the data that we had when we're doing the student loan documentary that we did, the debacle called Borrowed Future. The student loan debacle. The documentary wasn't a debacle, it was number one documentary but. And you can still watch it out there on YouTube for free folks. But one of the things we found there is data that says that there's a higher probability of graduating in four years when you're paying for some or all of it, not with student loans out of your pocket. And if you're working and that student athletes who hold down what is a full time job as a student athlete in the NCAA and go to school and graduate in four years have a work ethic far beyond the guy who majors in beer pong. And so same thing with student athletes, same thing with somebody working. And so our point was is that you can work and earn enough to go to a state school while working. You can stay full time and work full time. And here's where you don't have to do that in your case.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well and Dave, this is awesome. I love this conversation. There is data that says if you work it may have an adverse, it may impact negatively a tiny bit your gpa. If you have a full time job, if you have a part time job where you're very, very busy. But the goal of the human of going to college is not to maximize, I don't think, I think it's to come out having learned and prepared and be ready to enter the workforce and go get them is not to see how high you can get your gpa. And so we used to have a joke among my buddies who were, who were running businesses and hiring that I will take off the top the 4.0s because I'm just going to assume you didn't live in college. Right? And that was a joke and of course we didn't hold to that. But if I have to hire somebody who has a 4, 0 who's never had a job, they just went to class all day and somebody has a 3, 5, 6 and worked full time and got their butt out of college in four years, I'm going to hire Them every day to Sunday because I know that they can handle a whole bunch of stuff coming in at the same time and get their work done and provide and work. They have a work ethic. That's right. So go get that stuff done, man. Go get it. Great question.

[Dave Ramsey]

The answer is yes, I'd work while you're on school. I wouldn't make it mandatory for somebody. But if you're asking if you should, Brian, I think you should. Yes, Bryce is in Huntsville. Hey, Bryce, what's up in your world?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for talking with me today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I'm 22 years old. I just graduated college with my master's in IT field. I worked all through college. I'm on baby step 3B and I'm in a long distance relationship saving up for an engagement ring, what I'll call import taxes since my girlfriend's not from around here. And my question is, how should I prioritize saving for a house, engagement and retirement? And, you know, should I do that all at once? Should I consider bumping up to my 15% and saving for those other things or just keep it where I'm at now?

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you making?

[Caller]

So I'm salaried, I make 88 and I get pretty much guaranteed bonuses of about 17. So a little over 100.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, very good. Straight out of school. Congratulations, well done. And I suspect that's probably on its way up. It's not going to stay there very long, right?

[Caller]

That's correct. Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would say your first priority is don't ever call your girlfriend and import tax again. I'll just start there. That's just because I love you, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would just not do that on a national podcast that everybody listens to. Yeah, yeah. Word could get back and yeah, yeah, then you would be not having a girlfriend. So there you go. Now they get rid of that problem. Yeah. All right. One less issue. All right. So, yeah, I, I, I think on the short term, you, if you didn't do anything intellectually stimulating like long term investing in any of that, on the short term, if you just piled up some cash to start your life and over the next year, that wouldn't hurt anything. You're already debt free. If you pile up some cash for a down payment, a wedding, a ring, and that's all you do for one year, that's not bad.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a big win.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not bad. That keeps you out of debt on any of those things. And then if you want to start adding, if you think you're hitting those goals pretty easily. And you want to add some long term investing now because you're at baby step four. But if you just piled up cash for an entire year for wedding ring. Wedding. A ring and the import tax and I just can't even say that. And the, and whatever the other thing was, the house. Oh my, my God. Yeah, you're going to be okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Unless he gets struck by lightning first.

[Caller]

Ouch.

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[Dave Ramsey]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and you're feeling like you can't get ahead, you need to join one of our free everydollar trainings. We're gonna show you how to handle money, folks. These are new trainings every week and they're hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. So that would be Jade or George or Rachel will be there. We're gonna show you how to stick to a budget, how to put one together, and you're on average, people find $9,000 worth of margin using everydollar. That means you can make that kind of movement, almost like a head start kind of thing. Yeah. So check that out. It's free. It's everydollar.com webinar. And there's Q and A. That's live too, which is kind of like being on the show in a way. Right. So everydollar.com webinar, it's free. We're doing them all the time with Ramsey personalities. Be sure and check one of them out immediately. Amy's in Spokane. Hi, Amy, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good. How are you? Thanks for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

Okay, so I have a bit of a situation. So currently I'm a teacher and I make about like $56,000 a year. Recently I applied to work with my state as a service coordinator, so I wouldn't be really leaving my field completely. It's still working with kids, but it pretty much doubles my salary, which is fantastic. It's anywhere from 90,000 to 106,000 a year, depending on how many is on my caseload. But the problem I'm running into is it's a contract position, so it's a 1099 and not a W2. So I have to do my own taxes, there's no benefits and there's no retirement whatsoever. So I'm just curious one, do I accept this job? I haven't even offered it, but I'm thinking way ahead. I've had the interview went well. Do I accept this job? And if I do accept it, how do I save for retirement? I'm so used to having my 401k that I don't know what to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Good questions. You accept the job if it takes you to where you want to be in 10 years regardless of benefits. Where you want to be in 20 years regardless of benefits. Okay. Because you can buy your own health insurance, which you'll have to do. You can fund your own Roth IRA and even do what's called a simple 401K, which is an IRA for our simple IRA, which is a 401K for small businesses. You can do both of those. So you'll easily be able to adequately fund your retirement. Buy your health insurance and of course you're going to pay. You're already paying one side of your taxes. Now you just get to pay the other. So you have a 7%, 7.63 increase in your taxes because you're going to pay both sides. You get a 15.3% self employment tax versus your employer matches half of that if you're a W2. Okay, so you're going to lose seven. You're going to lose seven grand there. You're going to lose another seven grand on health insurance and the retirement that you had wasn't 100% pension. Anyway, it was a 401k with the state, so you were getting a match. You were having to put something in there anyway. So you're really not losing anything much there, except maybe a little bit of match. But I wouldn't worry about that. The point is, though, that you're making a lot more money, you're free, and you're not under the illusion that somehow the state is going to take care of all my needs. Which when you start talking about benefits, that's kind of what's happening in your spirit, you know what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Right. And this is this. I get to create my own hours and I have like a job that I want to start on the side, like my own personal side business time for that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you got to do this. You got to do it. But you need to meet with an insurance pro and get with the folks we recommend here at Ramsey. They'll help you put the health insurance in place. Health trust, they're called. And you need to meet with your smart or your. Your SmartVestor Pro in the area. You can find [e-mail] and get your IRA started. And if you want to do more than a Roth IRA into retirement, which you should probably do more than that if you're out of debt, that is, then you can do also the simple IRA, which is a 401k for small businesses. You might even look at a SEP. There's two or three things you can do there. They're easy, they're not hard, and they'll be able to explain it to you in one meeting and you'll understand it. But you got to buy health insurance and you got to get your retirement set up. And you need to set up to. You probably ought to meet with your tax preparer and automatically start setting aside money for taxes as well out of each check.

[Caller]

Right. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it doesn't sneak up on you. Right?

[Caller]

Right. Yeah, definitely not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because in the second year you're required to do quarterly estimates, so you might as well do them in the first year because it helps you with home. So you just say, okay, each quarter I have to pay a fourth of my income tax. And so you just start setting money out of each check to do that with, and it keeps it from sneaking up on you. So you got to do a little bit of book work. You kind of got to manage your life a little more, not be managed by the state. But none of this is really that. It's not intellectually straining. It's just A matter of setting up some systems in place that automatically come out of your checking account. So you're, you're funding your retirement, you're funding your health insurance and that kind of stuff. So write it down. It's health trust for our guys will help you put your health insurance in place. They're not any trouble at all. They're an advertiser. We endorse them. And the same thing with the smartvestor, probably you can find them one in your area, sit down with them. They'll help you get your retirement stuff going. And if you want a tax pro, you can find them too at Ramsey and RamseySolutions.com and they'll help you set up your quarterly withholding. And that's how you do it because now you're basically, you're self employed. That's what contract means.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I just. Amy, I want to challenge you to, when this episode drops, I want you to go back and listen to yourself describe this new job. Because you did a great job peeling the math back. But listen, explaining this is the job for you. It's perfect.

[Dave Ramsey]

She lit up. Yeah. If I were hiring you to do that job, the way your eyes lit up and we didn't even see them would cause me to hire you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Get that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I want somebody, somebody on fire like that doing a job over here at Ramsey.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, you'll get this job.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like, oh, yeah, yeah. Just let me at it. Put me in, coach. I mean, come on. Yeah. And I got to do the side gig and I'm going to be where I want to be in 20 years. Yes. You've got to do this. Go get it. And don't ever. Folks let. I'm going to double my salary, but I'm going to lose my benefits. The answer to that is woo hoo. It's not. Oh God. Okay. It's no. People become slaves to benefits. That's why companies offer them because some people place too high a value on things that mathematically don't have that much value.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's convenience. I want someone else to take care of this for me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, and it's this idea of having a babysitter. You know, I've got somebody that, you know, I don't have to think about it. And so somebody taking care of me. It's a. You don't, you know, and I like the idea of, you know, just being in the real world. So it's a good thing. Very good thing. Jared's in Salt Lake City. Hi, Jared. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, how are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Great. How can we help?

[Caller]

I just. Really quick. I've been listening to you for years. My son is in business classes, and he has totally taken on the Ramsey doctor. And I think there's a picture of you in his living room, actually.

[Dave Ramsey]

He needs to get some art.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He should call my show, because that's not.

[Caller]

Well, Right.

So I've been kind of dabbling. Not dabbling, but I've been diving deep myself for about the last three weeks. I got baby steps Millionaires on audible, so thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jared, I'm gonna run out of time. What's your question?

[Caller]

My question is Dori, my girlfriend. We are getting married here pretty quick. She's got about $70,000 worth of tax debt from her former marriage. She kind of discreet about it. She's embarrassed about it. She's an absolute sweetheart to pay their taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Her husband.

[Caller]

Her husband and her both, like, it was a joint.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who was filing the taxes?

[Caller]

Her husband was.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, investigate. Get. Get with a tax professional, preferably even a tax attorney, and investigate what's called the innocent spouse provision. And that is designed for something that's like this. Like the husband's running a business and she just signs the returns. Don't even know what's going on. And then he screws it up and runs it in the ditch. And there's a $70,000 bill, but she really signed everything. And they married filing jointly, but she didn't really know what was going on. And that's. That's. That's what the married. That's what the innocent spouse provisions is about. And they will release her if she can make that case. And they will go after only him.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah. Because she was working full time. Her and I are both school teachers. She's been teaching school, you know, through the whole.

[Dave Ramsey]

Working is not the issue. The issue is, did she know what the flip was going on, or was he running his own little side gig over here and she blindly signed it.

[Caller]

Right. Okay, That's.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the story, if that's the narrative, the innocent spouse provision. And get with one of our tax elps on ramseysolutions.com that endorse local providers there for taxes. They can help you. And if they can't help you, they'll know who in your market can, and they'll hook you up with a good tax attorney. It depends on how complicated the case is. But for 70 grand, you could drive five grand clearing this up, and it'd be a good, good, good investment in attorneys fees or tax CPA Fees either one. But don't use one of the people off the stupid cable ads. Get a real pro. I get it. Switching banks is a pain in the you know what. But if your bank doesn't line up with your money goals, it's time to make the switch to Fairwinds Credit Union. Listen, you guys know how I feel about big banks. They make money when you stay broke. Charging you overdraft fees, pushing credit cards and telling you debt is normal. And that's why I only work with folks who help you, not just profit off of you. Fairwinds is different. They're owned by their members, their non profit and they share our values. They even advertise with billboards saying they want their members to be debt free. So they built the the Smart Checking and Savings bundle just for Ramsey fans. You can open your account online in minutes and here's what you get. Free checking with no minimums and no monthly fees. Savings with a high apy to help you in baby step one and beyond. And a mobile app that actually makes sense. Plus you also get access to over 33,000 fee free ATMs and more than 5,000 affiliated branches nationwide. So don't settle for a bank that's slow, slows your progress down. Choose one that's built to help you win with money. Go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey and open your Smart Bundle today.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Fairwinds is federally insured by the ncu.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that you love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality is my co host today. He's the number one best selling author, a PhD in counseling and host of the Real Popular Dr. John DeLoney show on the Ramsey Networks. Be sure and check him out if you want to figure out that your life is really, really good. Just listen about some of his callers. You thought your family was crazy. I'm just saying you could listen to some of his callers. You didn't have any idea you were going to be in Jerry Springer?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Listen, there's a few times I get off the show and I drive home and I call my wife and she's. I can tell she's busy doing something. She's like what is it? And I said I just need you to know we're doing great. We're doing great.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're amazing. We're amazing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're doing great.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're amazing. Matt's in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey Matt, how are you? Hey guys, how are you today better than we deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

Yeah, so currently I'm on baby step six, paying off my mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

But if I look at it, I'm currently saving 46% of my income still, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where did you get that? We taught you to do that.

[Caller]

Get in. You said 15%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah, that's a part. Okay.

[Caller]

Wow.

So I guess my question. Should I reduce that to the 15?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

And just put the rest of it towards the mortgage?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you already knew that.

[Caller]

I did, kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you knew I was going to say that.

[Caller]

I just wanted the validation, you know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So here's the thing. What we discovered when we developed these baby steps a long, long time ago is I got out an old fashioned thing called a spreadsheet and I ran a whole bunch of possible case studies from a single mom making 25,000 to a doctor making 225,000. Okay. And I ran them all down through there and I ran, okay, here's your average house price for that person, average mortgage for that person. And if they put 15% away, they can still pay off the house in about seven years on average. If they put 46% away, they can't. And they end up with a mortgage long term. And we know that two things create the first one to $5 million in net worth once you're debt free. Two things do. Getting the house paid off is one and systematically saving in your 401k is two. So you're already doing both. Well, we just need to adjust the ratio so you get the house knocked out. Because as soon as the house knocks out then 46%, if you want to do that, that's perfectly fine.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How much do you make, man?

[Caller]

Between me and my wife, we make 190,000. But I'm also retired military, so I also get another 78,000 between my pension and disability per year.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're dealing with quarter million dollars a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How much is left on your mortgage?

[Caller]

243,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you want it done in no time? Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dude, you're going to have your own house. No one can take from you, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here's the other thing that happens.

[Caller]

That's what thought is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, here's the other thing that happens is that we don't, we can't quantify. We don't even at Ramsey, we don't know what is. We have the concept and nobody else sees the concept. But when you have a paid for home, something loosens up in your joints in the way you walk, talk Carry yourself and you end up making more money. Money. It's the weirdest thing because you don't have to put up with bull crap off everybody anymore. And so you just start doing the right stuff more often. There's zero need to be a slave at that point. And it's hard to grasp exactly what that does. It's hard to grasp how that affects the divorce statistics to not have a mortgage, how it affects the generosity statistics, which affects the divorce statistics, which affects, I mean, all of these things play together because they, what we start out with as a math nerd coming up with a way to do stuff like you do, Matt and I do, because we're both math nerds, we end up realizing that Dr. John DeLoney's world is adding even more value to what we thought was just mathematically plausible.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, there's just something about sitting in your house that no one could take from you and like, it's perfect. You say that extra thing in the meeting that may be a little bit, bit contrarian, a little bit sharper, and one of the leaders says, I want that person on my team.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or when your boss says, hey, you're going to do this, and you say, man, I'm, I, I got something with my kid and I'm not going to miss that. Can we do this another time? It, there's a, it just releases everybody. I don't know, it's, it's powerful and I wish we could grasp it. I'm sure somebody could figure out how to study it. But man, it is, it transforms people's spirits, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, the level of anxiety goes down, the medications go down, people.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Want to be around you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, stress related illnesses are, you know, if you map stress, the increase in stress related illnesses with the increase in the personal debt load of the average American, they run right together. But we can't quantify the actual mathematical savings related with not having those stress related illnesses. And so, and you know, that's like hypertension, heart attacks, all that kind of crap.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, and here's the other thing for you, Matt. You're talking 24. Y' all get pretty serious and have this house paid off in 24 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'Re gonna be, you're gonna be worth 10 or $20 million, depending on how old you are with a nut, with a. If you run the plan out the way we're talking about right here, it's, it's pretty stinking incredible. Well done, man. Well done. I'm proud of you. That's very cool. And thanks for serving your country. Appreciate you. All right. Caitlin is with us in Philadelphia. Hey, Caitlin. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi. Hey. I was calling. My husband and I are on baby step two. We've had a few years of a lot of transitions. Husband lost a job a couple years ago, ended up getting some others. Long story short, last year we made a move. He's pastor and we moved for a position that would give him probably the most he's ever made. We bought a house. We had sold a house, so we bought a house. I actually ended up taking a pay cut. But we've not been super happy. We've missed where we used to live and we have an opportunity to move back to where we had been and it doesn't have much room for growth, though we live currently outside of a city. This position will be rural again and, you know, we're really not going to probably ever.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think you're going to be as happy as you thought you were because you left for those same reasons that are still there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You have to realize that wherever you move, you and your husband are going to go with you there.

[Caller]

Yeah, I. A lot of it, though is like, we. We're in our 40s already. We have teenagers. They've not been real happy, you know, but they're.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They're not happy because they're living in a house where their parents aren't happy.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Children absorb the tension in their home.

[Caller]

This has been more stressful of a situation. Like, I do feel like we took on too much mortgage.

Okay.

So we're struggling find, you know, in that area.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why don't you buy a cheaper house and stay there?

[Caller]

So that's my question, I guess.

Do we.

[Dave Ramsey]

I thought you were going back to the country.

[Caller]

Well, yeah, I would not recognize it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would not recommend uprooting teenagers again and moving across the country again to. You went regular. You went suburban, then you went to urban, and now you're trying to go to rural. You're chasing something. And until you and your husband go sit down with a marriage counselor and figure out out what it is about the world y' all are co creating together in real time that y' all aren't happy with. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend running across the. The country. I would recommend what Dave said. Sell the house you can't afford and buy a house you can afford or.

[Dave Ramsey]

Rent a house and stay there. Other than that. Yeah. And let's work on peace. Solve for peace in the family. Yeah, I'll Send you a copy of Building a Non Anxious Life from John Deloney. I think you'll like it. The bottom line of a break in is more than financial. It also costs you peace of mind. So when it comes to protecting your home and the things you've worked so hard for, don't wait for trouble to show up. Plan ahead. That's why I recommend Simplisafe. See, most security systems only do something after someone's already broken in. But by then, it's too late. Simplisafe's active guard outdoor protection changes all that. It's like having a guard at your house who never clocks out. SimpleLife cameras use AI to spot trouble around your property. And if something doesn't look right, a live agent can step in. They can talk to the person, activate a spotlight, and call the police. Simplisafe also helps protect against fires and floods. Simplisafe is always working for you and that restores your peace of mind. It's simple, it works and it's a smart investment. And right now you can get 50% off a new SimpliSafe system with 24. 7 professional monitor [e-mail] that's 50% [e-mail] there's no safe like Simplisafe. Hey guys, if you like what you're hearing around here, we could use your help. Turns out the number one marketing thing in the podcast world and in the YouTube world is you. When you tell people, when you push the subscribe button, the follow button, the like button, when you share the show by sharing a link or telling people that we're here, hey, go check this show out. However you do that. Some of the platforms have a share button. That's fine. Any of that. And those five star reviews, thank you. Keep them coming. We appreciate it. All that stuff actually affects a bunch of new people finding out about us. And we appreciate you. The growth rate around here is mind boggling. And we know that it's because of you. Thank you. So buying or selling a home right now? The market has just strangely warmed up in the past three weeks. I'm interested to see what happens. This real estate market, it's a big deal. If you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal, the Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a top agen you can trust that we have done the due diligence on. We're gonna interview them. We do the agent profiles. We want high octane, high protein High producing. Not aunt Sally who got her license last week. And everybody's got freakin aunt Sally that gets her feelings hurt. Because you won't list your $600,000 house with a brand new agent just cause she's your aunt and she takes time out from her bridge club to show your house wrong. No, to find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent pro for free, go to ramseysolutions.com agent or click the description and where you're listening there on the YouTube or on the podcast and we'll hook you straight up. And these guys are good, they know what they're doing. Jay's with us in Canada. Hi Jay, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing really good. Yourself? Thank you Dave and John for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

I have a question regarding my wife and I and our personal home. Yeah, sorry. I'm a contractor and over the last eight years I bought some commercial warehouse bays with the cash flow from the company. I have them rented out to H vac, plumbers, electricians. The cash flow, a decent return. The value is about 750,000 and I currently owe about 300,000 on them. My question is, we have a home, a personal home that's worth about 700, we owe about 300 on it. And I'm just wondering if I should be selling the portfolio, just getting rid of it, increasing the debt and the risk and just paying off that mortgage because it's, it's looming over top of me and I feel like I drank the Kool Aid. A little bit of borrowing money to know for real estate and I don't want to fall into that trap. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. What do you make?

[Caller]

Around a little under 200 probably.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. Cool. All right, well what I would do is to map it out and do some math. Sometime this evening or maybe tomorrow night, whichever one you want. And let's look at it two different ways. Okay. How fast can we pay off the house if we lean into it without selling? Wait a minute. How many properties are there on the commercial?

[Caller]

There's three.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's three different ones. And you gave me the totals, right? Right.

[Caller]

Yes, do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so there's three possible scenarios. One is you, you keep them. And when you were describing them, you didn't use words that made me think you hate them. You like those properties, don't you?

[Caller]

I've had them for eight years. The cash flow, they've been full the whole time.

[Dave Ramsey]

That wasn't what I asked. I said you like those properties, don't you?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. It's A simple thing. You like all the things that you just started describing, and they're all good things. I'm a real estate guy. I love real estate. I've got more money tied up in real estate than anything else, so I love it. I'm not against real estate. I'm just against debt, as you know. So that's the Kool Aid you've been drinking on. Okay, so three possible scenarios. You take your $200,000 income. You say, if I keep all three of the properties, how long does it take me to pay off my house? And then how long does it take me to pay off the other? So you got 600,000. If you did 100,000 a year, it'd take you six years or something like that. So probably seven years is the fastest you could possibly clear all of them unless your income went up. Right. Okay, so that's. That's scenario number one. Scenario number two is you sell one of the properties, throw it at your house, and you're debt free in whatever it ends up being. Five years, four and a half years. Right.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Scenario number three is you sell all three and you're debt free tomorrow.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I'm thinking you're probably going to land in the middle one.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it just kind of takes your breath away to say, sell all of them. Although you do want to be out of debt, and I want you out of debt, but I think you could be out of debt in a reasonable period of time if you lean into this. But you could accelerate the reasonable period of time by dropping one of them, the least favorite one. Take that equity, throw it at your house, and I think you're done in four and a half years or so. I might be wrong, I'm guessing, looking at these numbers, but that's probably pretty close, depending on how the equities shake out among the three. But I would sit down and look at that and just go, okay, which one do I want? Do I want seven years? Do I want four and a half years? Or do I want three and a half months?

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the trade off is I own less of or none of these other rentals in any of these different scenarios. And honestly, I think what you're going to find is your stomach and your throat will tighten up while you're looking at these numbers. One set of these, you go, that's not the one I want to do. That didn't feel good.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think that's the one where you sell all three personally, because I think you still like these. But you like the idea of being out of debt and I agree with you on both of those things. I like them and I like the idea of being out of debt. But you know. But do I want to fight through it for seven years? Maybe not.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are you gonna do, man? I'm curious.

[Caller]

I'm gonna pray about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a good thing.

[Caller]

I'm gonna.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You should do that before you call to Yahoo's on the. On a podcast.

[Caller]

I respect you guys advice and I appreciate your time. I'm. I think I'm gonna sell one for sure. It's just how soon? How soon I can know. There's some other stuff at works. I have a tenant that's got a long term that might be beneficial to, you know, move, but we'll see.

[Dave Ramsey]

He might want to buy it.

[Caller]

Yeah, that is an option.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, I don't care. There's a. You just think it through. But I think my point is the prayer is a good thing because one of the things you'll find is when God, when God gives you something, it's very peaceful.

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you get an answer or you feel like you're getting an answer in prayer and there's not peace associated with it, it wasn't God, it was last night's P. You know what I'm saying? So there's always. That's what I meant by your stomach being tight and your throat being tight. Same thing. You're just. Where there's a sense of peace that gives you. That's a guidance mechanism.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Even if the thing you're doing is about to be really difficult and challenging and not pleasurable, you'll still have peace. You still have peace. Like this is the right move.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's a really good question, Jay. But what we're giving you here is not an answer, but a decision making paradigm, a framework by which you can make these decisions and pull it off and that it applies to a whole lot of different things out there. And you know, I love good real estate. I love it as an investment, but I love it paid for. And so whatever he ends up with here, I want it to end up paid for. And then if he wants to add some more, he adds it with cash as he goes along. And I think he will be able to do that. And the types of properties he's describing, I don't know in Canada, but the types of properties he's describing in Nashville, Tennessee are wonderful types of. Buy property. Done well, excellent property.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's the track record of eight years. Always, always full.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. Cash flowing. I just like it. I like it. I like it a lot. So, yeah, that's the thing. So other stuff that is going down in value and that is not an investment but is instead of consumption. Like a boat.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. If he had two boats in a big truck. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And a four wheel drive truck. Truck that you don't need. No amount of truck will help you with your ego. I'm just telling you. And I got a big one truck that is. And an ego.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was gonna say.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I mean, none of this stuff is worth. Is worth keeping to stay in debt. That's bullcrap. What we're talking about here is an investment that's going up in value and a guy that likes it. Now if you call me up and you say, I hate being a landlord. Well, regardless of what the implications are.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sell them all in, cash out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Continue to be a liar.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sell them all in cash out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sell the stupid thing. It's just a rental house. It's like, oh, I feel dumb. No, you don't feel dumb. You figured out what you don't like doing. A lot of people spend their life not knowing what they don't like doing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It'S a good thing or doing it anyway and not liking it the whole every step of the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Miserable. And then you make excellent trolls on the Internet because you ain't got anything else to do except be miserable. And then you want to bring everybody with you on your trip of your miserable trip. Your trip down miserable lane. Miserable people. This is the Ramsay Show.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks for joining us, America. We're really glad you are with us. The Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you're ready to stop drowning in private student loan debt, we found a way. It's a company called why Refi? They throw you a rope. Talk to Y Refi and see if refinancing your defaulted student loans is a good way for you to get rid of the debt. Low fixed rate, fits in your budget, all that stuff. Talk to them. Why refi? That's the letter. Yes. R e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Today's question comes from Kate in Michigan. I'm a marketing professional. In my early 20s, I started my own business and I earn over a hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dude.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Congratulations, Kate. I have close to $125,000 saved as a down payment on my first house. I've always wanted to be a homeowner and I'm confident this is what I want to do. But a lot of people around me are pressuring me to not buy a home. Oh, good gravy. Because of Christian beliefs that girls. I'll just. I'm reading it how she wrote it, that girls shouldn't buy a home and men should be providers. I don't have a boyfriend, so I'm not getting. Dude, I can't finish this. I'm not even close to getting married. What would you advise your daughter to do?

[Dave Ramsey]

Leave the cult.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Leave whatever madness and misrepresentation of Christian beliefs and ethics and right and wrong immediately.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is not a Christian belief, darling. No, that's a cult belief.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

God almighty. I would advise my daughter to buy a house with $125,000 she has saved as a down payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Keep being the stud at that you are and hope that some guy is lucky enough to even catch your eye. Oh, my God. Jesus is so bass ackwards, you people. Unbelievable. Some of y' all are just really screwed up. And then you put a cross over the top of it. You kill me. You make the rest of that love Jesus look like we're morons. Because you're a. When you do stuff like this, that's just nuts.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can't.

[Dave Ramsey]

This burns my butt.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't have any words to say it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just I hate bad doctrine and bad theology and how it affects people when they get in toxic situations. So I'm sorry, darling, your mother and father have misled you. Leave the cult. Yes, because that's where this crap's coming from.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, that's, I don't have any other words to say that aren't going to get me.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't. You don't think I'm not gonna get it. I don't give a crap.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's just stupid.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've been doing this a long time. What are you gonna do? Get mad at me and leave? You know, you, you. And I guess that'll leave us only 60 million listeners. Oh, well. Okay. Darn. I don't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is this real?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it's definitely real. You were on a podcast the other day.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was. You're right, you're right, you're right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You were in the middle of the. One of these dadgum things.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know who usually start. Okay, let's just. You know who says this crap? Men who are afraid of losing control of amazing smart women like this.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they're not as ambitious and they don't have as much get up and go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so they.

[Dave Ramsey]

To even stand up next to a.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Take their insecurity and fear and try to duct tape Jesus on the top of it to keep their crumbling kingdoms from coming out from under them. Kate, you're amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you, Kate. You're. You're an absolute incredible human being.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Jesus.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go shine, girl. Girl, go shine and just pray. Have some guy pray that he finds a woman as good as you to sign up with. Oh, my gosh. I mean, if you've got a son out there and you're looking for. I mean, Kate is a good in Michigan. Well, she's former cult. She doesn't have that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She'll have some counseling necessary PTSD out of this cult. It's gonna be painful for a minute.

[Dave Ramsey]

But darling, you are being a little bit, bit melodramatic. But not much, but not really.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I, I, I am going to strongly encourage my daughter to a. I'm going to give her a picture of what a healthy marriage looks like because I want her to think I want to be a part of that institution. I want to be a part of this thing because my mom and my dad laugh a lot. They've got a ton of joy. Their finances work together, all the stuff that the data tells us. I want her to have a ringside seat of how amazing this thing is that, that my mom and my dad have that's number one. Number two, do. I'm going to teach my daughter how to work hard. I'm going to teach my daughter how to do things on her own. Learn how to do stuff, change a tire, fix the faucet, work really hard outside. She was out doing some crazy hot yard work the other day. She's nine and I pay her well and take care of it. Anyway, I want her to be able.

[Dave Ramsey]

To know the salt mines on Friday.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She's not doing that. That's where my son is right now. But I want her to know how to do hard stuff. And yes, dude, if she says, dad, I want to start my own business, I think I can make 150k a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I will be, I will be shoving her. Mom and I will be pushing each other to see who's going to be the biggest cheerleader. And we're going to say, go get it. And if she says, Dad, I have $125,000 as a down payment. I don't have any men that are worth my time yet. I'll say, can I go house shopping with you? That's what I would say to my daughter, period. End of story.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tada. God, this gets me fired up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave, man, I think we probably ought to stop. Heidi's in Casper, Wyoming. Hey Heidi, what's up?

[Caller]

Oh, not much.

Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

My husband and I are debt free and we about two and a half years ago sold a business and have kind of taken the last two and a half years to just figure out what we want to do in life. And he has recently gone back to work, needed some purpose, went back to work doing something he loves, something he cares about. So he does home inspection and he went to work for a guy and he has been there for, let's say four and a half months. And he loves it. It's been great. Recently he has asked for a few days off and essentially the employer has denied him taking any time off. And he's not asking for paid time off, he's just asking for a few days here and there so that we can enjoy our family. We have kids that are almost out of the house and we'd like to take the, to create memories during that, during the summers and stuff. And he has denied him taking any time. He doesn't make great money, but again, he loves it and so it makes it worth doing it for him. He has the opportunity to actually he has all the skills to go do it on his own and he is going to have a con, would like to have a conversation with the employer and say, look, here's can we make something work? But he's pretty certain that he's going to say no, that's not going to work morally. So my question is morally, would it be wrong? He didn't sign a non compete for him to open his own and do home inspections for himself?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, not at all. And that's what he should do as long as he doesn't take clients from his former employer. Okay. So if the former employer works with Susie Q real estate agent and he, Susie Q gives him all the, all of her sales for inspections, you can't use her.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't steal from the guy contacts that you found by working for him. That would be unethical.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And for whatever it's worth, I want to put another here I am sympathizing with the business owner. When my residence life staff worked for me at the university, they all knew nobody can take vacation in August because we have thousands of young people moving in and it is day in and day out until we get these buildings ready. And everybody, everybody knew that. So if a part of the home inspection business is the chaos months or June, July and August and not even that.

[Dave Ramsey]

If the part of the home inspection business is this guy hired you to work full time and you don't want to work full time time, that's on you. That's not on him. He's not being unreasonable. He's not being unreasonable.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

He hired a guy to work full time and the guy doesn't want to work full time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And if he said it's flexible and take some time off when you can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I think we didn't have a good definition of flexible. Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He might say it's flexible in November and December.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. Or he might say it's flexible one day every six months and you guys want to take, you guys want to take five days a week. I don't know. I mean, I don't know what flexible means, but I don't think y' all.

[Caller]

Did for three days.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but in your mind that's perfectly reasonable. But you're financially independent. Used to be self employed. This guy actually thought he hired an employee.

[Caller]

Yeah, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So no, you're being unreasonable. He, he has a reasonable right to ask the guy. Ask your husband to work full time. Now, except for the part where we didn't both agree on what flexible man meant. Right, But I don't use that word around here because I'm not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He tried yoga and it was a disaster.

[Dave Ramsey]

I broke the yoga.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ruth is in Philadelphia. Hey Ruth, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, what's up?

[Caller]

Thanks for taking my call. Sure. My 20 year old son passed away about four months ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. What happened? Oh my God.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Ruth. What was his name?

[Caller]

Elijah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Elijah. Good kid.

[Caller]

Yes, great kid.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Pretty amazing hard worker. I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

Yeah. Thank you. Between some money that he had saved because he was a good saver. He had done your program and then there was a life insurance policy we didn't know on him. We've been left with about 95,000. My husband and I have 21,000 left on our house and we didn't know. And that's the step we're on. Do we just pay off the house or do we need to sit and wait longer? My husband does have a little reservation because it hasn't, we haven't gotten a police report and he's like, what if somebody wants to sue us? We were told originally from the first cop that it was not our son's fault, but we don't have anything in writing that says that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is there an open case against you?

[Caller]

No, not that we know of.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would call the, the investigator of the accident. Was there another vehicle involved? Involved?

[Caller]

Yes. Someone hit our son.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Are, is there going to be an additional suit at a later time?

[Caller]

We don't know anything. We were told, we last were told it was going to the prosecutor's office.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No. Will you be filing, filing a suit at some time?

[Caller]

We hadn't thought about that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Against the person who hit your son?

[Caller]

We, we haven't even thought about that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I, I, if you're worried about a legal implication, I would get advice from, from an attorney if y' all have one. If you're considering a suit down the road and thinking through all that kind of stuff. Four months is, I, I always tell people, don't do anything for six months. If you're, if you're itching to do a thing, maybe find a small cause to donate to or something like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And also I wouldn't even do that right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, but I wouldn't do nothing for.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think, I don't think, I don't think Money, Money is an issue right now in your life. A broken heart is an issue in your life.

[Caller]

So we don't need to pay the household yet?

[Dave Ramsey]

Not yet. I would set the money in a high yield savings account and just forget it's there until it's at least six months old. Until the tragedy is at least six months old. Because it takes about that long to even get a full breath. You can't even get your lungs full right now. So still.

[Caller]

Okay, Right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I agree and I can't imagine being in this situation. But I do know that even as clear thinking and decisive as I am, I don't think I would be in. I know I would be in a debilitated state to make great decisions. I think looking in from the outside, paying off the house is kind of a no brainer. I don't think it's a big deal at all. I mean, 95,000 minus 21. Even if you've got some legal things, you're going to have enough. But I just, just don't think you need to worry about it right now. That's my point.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think it's good just for you and your husband to be holding each other and crying right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Ruth, Unfortunately I've. I've had the honor and the heartbreak to sit with a lot of parents in the situation. Let me ask you this. I often hear some semblance of this story. There's an emptiness and I feel like I need to do something.

[Caller]

Something.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does that encapsulate your story or are you feeling something different?

[Caller]

No, I feel like I do need to do something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would challenge you and your husband to do something either together or somebody else or by yourselves. But find a thing to just plug into and say, for three months, I'm going to plug into this thing. Local library, reading at an elementary school. I'm going to volunteer at a summer camp, two hours a day, just doing a thing that will get you up and moving to get to do a thing. And then you can go back home and get back under the covers.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Otherwise you can end up just scrolling and scrolling and thinking, well, do I need to do this? And do I need to do this? And that pressure becomes anxiety over time. You start worrying about things into the future and so find a small thing for you. Just to lack of better terms, I wish I had a lot a nicer way to say this. Just discharge some energy into a thing that will be positively oriented, something that will help somebody.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you guys in a good church?

[Caller]

We are, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got a good community crying with you?

[Caller]

We do. And we have older children and I do my. I am pouring into my father. I have a 95 year old father I'm helping take care of.

Great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's, that's a positive. Yeah. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But that can also come with its own set of grief, too, right?

[Caller]

It will. Yeah, it does.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So even if it's as simple. Can I tell you something? My parents did and I didn't. They didn't even tell me they did this. I found this out secondhand. They got in a car they live in. In. In Central Texas. They got in their car and drove a couple hours and picked up somebody who lost most of their house. They picked up all the laundry in the house, nine trash sacks, and drove it all the way back to their house. And they're just doing laundry for the next week. They live in Texas. They felt like they need to do something with these flags, floods, and they have very limited resources. When they got in the car and they did a small thing, ended up being a huge thing for that family. And they didn't tell anybody. They didn't even tell me they did that. And so finding, like, I'm gonna do somebody's laundry. Me and husband, we're gonna go mow one lawn a week together. Something that will get you out of your head and just go do a thing for somebody and then come back. And then two months, three months after y' all decided we're gonna sue somebody, are we gonna let this thing go? Do we have a police report? Then you can start making your next steps.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Preston's in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Preston. How are you?

[Caller]

Hey, I'm doing fantastic. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my primary question. Is it more important to follow your baby steps exactly, or is it more important that me and my wife agree on how to get out of debt?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Baby steps. Forget your.

[Dave Ramsey]

What?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm totally kidding.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's more important that you don't pose two negatives.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. You've put your only two options in an impossible cage.

[Caller]

Yeah, fair enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

How about third option, we both sit down and talk about our goals and how we're going to get there long enough that we agree on the way we're going to get there? Okay, so this is not an argument about the baby steps. This is an argument about power.

[Caller]

I hadn't considered that. I appreciate that perspective.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, I mean, the baby steps are correct. Obviously, I'm going to say that because I've got 10 million, 20 million people that have followed them and had great results and followed them exactly. And so, no, I'm not going to tell you to deviate from that, but that's a spirit of legalism, and that's not the spirit we want to get. We need to get a spirit of Alignment. But if we can't get alignment on something that's smart, there's got to be an underlying reason for that. That. And let's get the underlying reason for the lack of alignment out in the open and which is a power struggle. And let's, let's try to get to the bottom of that and figure out what. Because you're probably, if you're disagreeing about something like arguing about the baby steps. Well, here's, here's, there's probably some other stuff that's out of a line.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This may be the tenth scheme. And your wife has said, I'm not doing that. Or it might be she wants to pay this one credit card that's been haunting. Or you're like, no, it's exactly what you said. It's about power, power, who's going to be right. And let's put the right or wrong aside and say, how can we be united? And usually that stuff takes care of itself.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know, the interesting thing is if it's something like that, which credit card that's such a temporary non issue.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Correct. Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Such a temporary non issue. And so what you, the big things are, how are we going to get, how are we going to become wealthy and get out of debt? Right? And you know, what's the best way to do that? You know, let's get out after it. And so, you know, if you do this and do this and do this and we're going to do it with enthusiasm, then have at it, you know. But the most efficient way is to do the different things, the nuanced things that we talk about while you're doing the baby steps. Like for instance, it's not a baby step, but if you keep getting a tax return, one of the things that people do is they adjust their withholding to where they get the proper amount coming home and they have more money coming home to get out of debt with. That's not a baby step. Whether you keep your car or not. Too expensive, a car that's in debt, that's not a baby step. But we're looking at, okay, we own a car that's $50,000 and we make 40. Well, that's not a baby step thing. That's just stupid, just bad math and so on. And so there's all these different things you've got to look at. I've got a whole life policy. It's got $24,000 in it. Good. Get some term insurance in place, which is the proper amount of life insurance to get 10 to 12 times your income and term insurance would cost you nothing. And get that 24,000 and throw it at your dad. These are things that people do while they're doing the baby steps.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But if somebody comes at their spouse and attacks them with the baby steps, it's not uncommon that we hear somebody try to throw something in the gears just to say, I want to have a say too.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. My vote counts. My voice counts. This is the Ramsay Show.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality number one, best selling author, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show is my co host today. Thank you for joining us. Open for phones at 888, 825-5225. Emma is in Portland, Oregon. Hi Emma, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm doing well, thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller]

Okay. I have a medical insurance. I'm hoping you guys can give me your expertise on. Married 39, my husband 45. We have two kids, a 13 year old and an 8 year old. I was recently laid off in April of this year from my job of almost 20 years. I knew it was coming. That's okay. I did receive a very nice severance package. So I will have 100% pay and benefits for my entire family through November of this year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

My husband full time employed as well. So I carried the medical benefits. I hit the ground hard, got a job started last week and very close to the same pay I was at sat down to do my benefits with my new place of employment. And the plan that I originally wanted to select is not an option because I already am holding medical benefits from my past employer. So my two options are you can cancel those. I can't cancel them. If I do cancel them, my old place of employment will want a lump sum, pay me my severance instead of keeping the bi weekly normal paychecks who cares? Coming.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is it a different amount?

[Caller]

No, they would just get hit pretty hard with taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you don't. Tax is exactly the same. Withholding is different, but taxes are the same.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Explain the difference of that, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so when you do a lump sum or when you get like a huge bonus charge check, we employers are required to withhold more of it at a greater rate as if you were making more money than you're really making, which is IRS double talk for bull crap. But anyway, we're required to do that. So if you got currently 15% being withheld, we might have to withhold 20%, but it doesn't change your actual taxes. When you file them at the end of the year, you're going to get it all back. Okay, so can you select the option at the new employer and it start immediately that you like?

[Caller]

I can if I don't have those other. If I select. No, I don't have another.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know you don't. You can't cancel if it's not going to start the next week.

[Caller]

Yes. They're going to retro it back to July 1st. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so if you went to your former and canceled, you could, you could sign up for this and you would have full coverage immediately.

[Caller]

Yes. Which would be much cheaper than the only plan that I would qualify then at my new place of employment. I just, I just had the dilemma of I didn't want to pay double insurance because it'd be an extra five.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you shouldn't pay double insurance. That's not. You can cancel the insurance with the former employer. Call your up your old HR and say I need, and send them an email that says I need to cancel it effective this date.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that date needs to be the date that your new employer insurance starts. Can that occur?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you do that?

[Caller]

I can call and do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, I'm saying can your new insurance start on a set date at the new place the day that you have officially made your other one cancel?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're not going to go a day without insurance the way we're describing this. Correct?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. That's what you need to do.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then let the, let the former employer know you don't have to pay for my health insurance anymore. Good for you.

[Caller]

I mean, I know that's what they want. Right? Like they, they would prefer us to call and do the one time payout.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, so Emma, that was my question. How much of this is. You want them to pay because they fired you after 20. 20 years?

[Caller]

I mean, no, not really. It wasn't bad, but kind of every time I've gotten a bonus over the last 17 years, we have those employees and colleagues that are like, I'm changing my withholdings. They're not. I'm going to get my full bonus. That's never been me. I'm like, you know what? No, let them take as much because I don't want to pay it back.

[Dave Ramsey]

Withholding, though, you're going to be taxed at exactly when you file your taxes at the end of the year. You pay taxes on your income regardless of what of how the income was paid to you, whether it was paid biweekly or in a lump sum. Your income tax at the end of the year is exactly the same either way. The only difference is when they pay out a lump sum, they are required to over withhold. But you. That means you're gonna get tax refund is what that means.

[Caller]

Okay, what's that like?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, really?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. This one time. Just this one time. But yeah, but we've solved. But in the process, we've also solved the health insurance problem. So, yeah, that's a misnomer. A lot of people believe that you actually get taxed higher on bonuses, but you don't get taxed higher. You just have more withheld as if you're going to be taxed higher, but you don't end up paying all of that in tax when you do your filing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And here's one other just again, I don't have any data to back this up. This is just wisdom from your brother John. There's something about, you're going to pay me out this every month for the next year. And you can't heal from that company that let you go after 20 years until you stop taking a check from them. There's something about take that lump sum. If you've got insurance that you said is cheaper, it's going to be the same plan. Cut ties to this place and start healing from that. And don't let them continue to. It feels like you're winning. You're not winning anything. Just move on from it. Take that check and get on a bachelor life. Just something about setting it all free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Being free is a good thing. It sure is. So that's a good question. And I think we.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I did not know that. That's good to know.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you clear it up, the math on it, then it helps you to make. It helps you just to get down to, okay, is there any emotion driving the decision? And if there's not then that's okay. But if there is, then you do have the benefit of putting the whole thing in your rear view mirror by getting the lump sum. I like that. That's kind of the rip the band aid off thing. And you get to start he.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're right, the company will save some money by paying you out and.

[Dave Ramsey]

They'Ll not have any health insurance.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's great. But it gives you a better deal too. So yeah, I'm going that way and that way I don't have any lapse in coverage because I don't want Murphy, you know, if it can go wrong, it will hanging around these coverage lapses. That's about the time, you know, you have a kidney stone or something and you have an $8,000 bill in that one week period of time, you know, or something. It's just. That's nuts. So yeah, you got. Got them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So tell me about the. It's. It's not commission checks.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But if you get a commission check.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you get a huge commission check.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is there a, is there a lot?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a, it's a ratio to your income. So basically you've got a W2. And when you're on a salary or a steady, you know, you get the steady. But if there's a large bonus, it's almost like the game show tax, only the game show tax is actually a tax. It's just withholding. So it's not like that at all. Anyway. The. But it's. And I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head because they've changed them. But we have to do it here. Yeah. So if we've got a situation where, you know, somebody earns a large check.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I have a wild month.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have a wild, wonderful month. Yeah. You're going to get a different withholding. You're probably not because yours is probably all over the place anyway. Yeah. But, but if it's. You're going along steady and then you get this bump that like a, you know, $10,000 bonus at the end of the year and you make, make, you know, 50, 60,000 bucks, you know, that's going to get hit heavier than your regular check is in February. But it's only on the amount they withhold as if. Because they treat it as if you're making $10,000 a month now and you're not. They calculate it wrong. It's the irs for God's sakes. They don't do anything right. So. And if you work for them. I'm talking to you. This is the Ramsey Show. Why is it that when warm weather hits, people start losing their common sense? They swipe credit cards left and right, saying, I need a vacation. I deserve this. But by August, they're stuck cleaning up a mess. Listen to me carefully. You don't need to spend five grand on beach trips and theme park tickets to make family memories. Here's the deal. Instead of having the summer you deserve, have the summer you can afford. That means planning ahead with the Every Dollar budget app. It helps you track spending and give every single dollar a job job. That way you make sure the essentials are covered and have some fun without making a money mess. Look, you gotta start bossing your money around, or else it'll always be the boss of you. Download everydollar today. Hey, are you staying on track with your baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head over to the show Notes and click the link titled are you on track with the baby steps? And complete the quick free quiz and we'll help you get on track, baby. Keith Kagan is with us in San Angelo, Texas. Hey, Kagan, how are you?

[Caller]

Good. Thanks for saying my name right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Actually, I was trying to not mess it up. They helped me phonetically and everything. Occasionally I can get it, but what's up? How can we help?

[Caller]

So I'm 32 years old. I make 70,000 a year, and I'm about $120,441 in debt. And it's all consumer. Well, I actually have. My wife has 16,000 in student loan. And I'm just wondering the best way to tackle this debt.

Debt.

I'm following the baby steps. We started about a month ago. I'm like 4,000 in. We just paid off one of the credit cards and some medical debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. So what is the 120,000 in debt? Sixteen was student loans.

[Caller]

$16,061.45 in student loan. I've got $11,079.16 on credit cards. Truck, 24,801 and 47 cents. And then the biggest one is $67,718.18 on an RV that we live in.

[Dave Ramsey]

You live in?

[Caller]

We live in it. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Tell me about that.

[Caller]

We were living in the Austin area, and my income before we moved here was a lot lower and a lot more inconsistent. So we started living in an rv and it saved us a lot of money. And before we moved here, we bought this new rv, thinking we were upgrading our lives, and it turns out we were just strapping ourselves to a big piece of metal.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's depreciating underneath you every night you go to sleep. What's it worth now?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's worth about 51,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Does your wife work outside the home, sir?

[Caller]

She. She's babysitting my sister's kids right now. She makes like. She's bringing in like 600amonth, and she's wanting to start working in August.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Have you guys got kids?

[Caller]

We've got one kid. He's two years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So she starts working in August. What she make?

[Caller]

We're thinking she's gonna be pulling in about $16 an hour there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. All right. So.

[Caller]

So we're pretty frugal. We're floating this. And I usually.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I don't think you guys are out buying coach purses. I can tell the. So the way I answer stuff here is I say, what would I do if I were in your shoes? And why? So that you know the. Why not just Dave said, okay, what I want to solve for if I'm you is I want to get back to a place where I have control of my life again, to be able to move forward. Right now, an RV and a truck control my life.

[Caller]

You're correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I'm gonna. I'm gonna do some painful things to step back, to set myself up to step forward. I don't want to just do them to do them. I want to do it so that I get free to be able to move forward. Because if you don't have an RV payment and you don't have a truck payment and you have a small apartment rent instead, this thing turns around pretty quick.

[Caller]

Oh, I know. We look at the math and see how capable we are.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you guys could be making 100 grand living in a cheap one bedroom apartment for one year. And clean up every bit of this by selling the truck in the rv.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you can get a nice house.

[Dave Ramsey]

In San Angelo, Texas, two years from now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I know that because I got.

[Dave Ramsey]

Family that live there two years from now.

[Caller]

Really?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a reasonable place. It's a great place to raise a family, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good. Low cost of living.

[Caller]

Yeah, we're pretty comfortable. A lot more comfortable here than we were. The issue I'm having when I'm looking at selling it, the truck of the RV is the truck's upside down as well as the rv.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. How bad is your credit?

[Caller]

My credit's not bad. It's around 7:30, 7:50.

[Dave Ramsey]

Swing down the credit union and borrow the difference. I'd rather be 9,000 in the whole. I have a personal loan for 9,000 in the. In the RV's gone. Than I would be 67,000.

[Caller]

So you're saying borrow nine.

[Dave Ramsey]

You said you could sell it for. If you sold it, whatever amount of different. Borrow the difference.

[Caller]

Borrow the difference.

[Dave Ramsey]

Assuming you can get the thing sold, you know, and all that. But the same thing's true with truck. What do you think the truck's worth?

[Caller]

Last I checked, it's anywhere between 16 to 21,000, depending on condition.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, good. So if you could get 21 out of it, that makes it only three in the hole. That's pretty sweet. So if you got a $15,000 loan at the credit union, you got rid of these two loans. Now we're down to a little bit of credit card debt, a student loan and a credit union loan to get. To get back to zero. And when you got no payments in the world, a few months after that, like another year roughly, then at that point, you're completely debt free. Now both of you together are making 100k. You save up a good down payment on a house.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you drive a beater, but you drive like no one else and you live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else and drive like no one else. This is exactly what my wife and I did 30 years ago when we went broke.

[Caller]

I'm honestly at this point looking forward to driving that beater.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But here's the thing. Because you got out of Austin and you live in San Angelo, you can move over there west of Grape Creek Road and get yourself two acres and a small house. And for a couple hundred thousand dollars, that would be $2 million in Austin, so you can have that life you want. It's right there. You just have to have.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's gonna take you about three years to get there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Some really uncomfortable conversations.

[Dave Ramsey]

Three years to get there. And you get the benefit of not living in an RV the whole time, which is pretty cool, you know?

[Caller]

Yeah. My wife's totally on board with this. She's been a. She's been a big help. She does all the cooking and everything, and she makes everything from scratch.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm gonna give you Financial Peace University. I'm going to give you a total money makeover book, and I'm going to give you a year of every dollar free as our gift to you. Because I think you're really going to go do this and I want to help you.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Go to the credit union tomorrow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go to the credit union, start working on where you can borrow this money to cover these differences. If the truck is with the credit Union or the RV's with the credit union, ask them to let you just sign a note for the difference because they're already negative. They already don't have collateral to cover their loan as it is. They might as well admit it and turn it into a personal loan. So. But if they're with the RV company or the Ford Motor, you're screwed. They're not going to do that. Okay, but you have to go borrow it somewhere else. But I would rather you have $10,000 in credit card debt because you sold the RV. 10,000 more in credit card debt because you sold the RV than 67,000 on the RV. That's a good trade. It's a really good trade because you're going to get it paid off that much faster. Yeah, you got your cash back, you got your flow back. So you hang on, our team will pick up and we'll get you signed up for all that stuff I just gave you. And you call us back anytime we can help you because you're, you're exactly why this show exists just for you. You. You know, we've helped millions of people just like you. That's why we're here. So you call anytime, dude. That's what we're here for. It's good. When you are ready that the teacher appears, huh?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, when you. Yeah, there's that moment and you can. I don't know how, how it happens, Dave, but you can hear it in the voice of a caller like, oh, this person's going to go do it. And it's that mixture of fatigue and fired up. And I'll do whatever, I'll do whatever I got to do. I'll sell the house up from underneath us. This. And you know what? He's also selling a drink. Dream. Yeah, he's selling a dream. I'm selling all this stuff because it's not working. I got a two year old, it's time for me to pop.

[Dave Ramsey]

Plan didn't work. I'm selling that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm selling all of it, the whole package. My Austin dream. I'm gonna get a camper in Austin and do the Austin thing and not back in Austin. I love Austin, but it, it's, it just. I'm selling all of it. I'm tired. I want peace. And man, when you get there, you can hear it on somebody's voice over the phone. It's fantastic.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, part of it is no one wins with money until they decide they don't care what other people think.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Including the guy in your mirror, you gotta go, I don't even care what you think. Buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality is my co host. He is also one of the two people including Rachel Cruz doing our money and marriage getaway. We have two of them coming up. They're on sale. You can can spend three incredible days here in Nashville on our campus with your spouse learning the tools to strengthen your connection, deepen your intimacy and handle your money together. Dr. John Deloney, Rachel Cruz. This is pretty much stand up comedy and a lot of deep, really good information. Tickets start we have one in November, one in February. One in February would be Valentine's day weekend. Early bird pricing still available for that one. Tickets start at 7:49 a couple. There's just a handful left for November so if you're going to miss out on November, just wait a minute. You'll miss out on it. There you go. November 6th through the 8th and just a handful there. But the you can still get in the Valentine's day pretty easy. 12 through 14 early next year. Tickets are the lowest price right now before they [e-mail] getaway or click the link in the show notes and you get to be a part of that. John. That's a good event. You and Rachel always have incredible results out of that. People's marriages are enhanced and sometimes saved.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Saved. Yeah, it's, it's, it's by far my favorite thing I'm a part of and.

[Caller]

I love it, love it, love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, Anne Marie is in Reno, Nevada. Nevada. Hey, Anne Marie. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for saying Nevada correctly.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was trying.

[Caller]

I am, I am 59 years old and want to know how do you recommend handling finances in a committed relationship when based on my divorce decree I cannot remarry or I'll lose income which is over 5,000amonth that I really couldn't afford to lose.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you get 60,000 a year, alimony for how much longer?

[Caller]

Lifetime.

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're married a while.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you don't work outside of the home or.

[Caller]

I have a small part time business. I, you know, have a little discretionary income, not anything super substantial. I have lots of investments and have a house. I do have a small mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And the gentleman that you are dating makes what?

[Caller]

We're pretty equally yoked as far as what we make and assets and that sort of thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he makes, Has a job and he makes 60,000 a year.

[Caller]

Yeah, he'll make 60 plus and has his own home and other, you know, assets.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Huh. It's a very, it's a very difficult question. And the.

[Caller]

Because I hear you guys all the time about be married, be married, be married. But I was like, I can't. I'm leaving too much on the table.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you, you can. It's just going to cost you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What is it worth to you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is it your values over the money? That's what I mean.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So my problem is, and John's problem, we're people of faith. We're Christians. And so scripture tells us we can't be living with somebody we're not married to and be having sex with somebody we're not married to. That's what our faith book tells us. And so that's how we believe and how we live. And so if I were in your shoes, I wouldn't have any choice in that regard. I would have to say, all right, we're not living together and. Or we're going to give up the $60,000. Let me ask you this. How long have you been divorced?

[Caller]

Well, separated over three years. Originally we had a separation agreement so I would not lose health insurance. And then we recently went ahead and diverged. Divorced.

[Dave Ramsey]

When was the divorce final?

[Caller]

Three months ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, this is fresh. And how. What does your ex make?

[Caller]

Twice what I get every. We've split everything. 50, 50. Literally everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he makes 120,000 a year and you got 60,000 aluminum testimony. That was, he offered that, didn't he?

[Caller]

Well, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Okay, okay.

[Caller]

It's basically what I required. He agreed to it pretty well.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's unusually high. A judge usually would not have done that in most states.

[Caller]

Okay, well, we had, we had already separated our finances long since like three years ago. So as far as investments, all of that, everything was totally separate. We agreed everything. 5050, of course, you know, I supported him all these years. As far as moving around the world and supporting his career.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This means. This means you were already in a serious relationship before you divorce final.

[Dave Ramsey]

What happens when he's 75 and doesn't make 120 anymore?

[Caller]

No, this is all retirement income.

[Dave Ramsey]

He makes 120,000 retirement income. So what is in his retirement? Is that a pension?

[Caller]

Yes, between pensions and Social Security.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he doesn't have a big nest egg then?

[Caller]

Well, we both do because, you know, we extend financially all of our married life.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm going somewhere with this. I'm not just being nosy. How big? Big.

[Caller]

Okay. Well, I mean, we each have over half a million. In other.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. That's what I was asking. I wasn't. I wasn't trying to shame you. I'm just trying to figure out what the flip's going on. All right, so the downside is that this is real fresh. If he had been paying this 5,000 long enough that he had a little bit of fatigue from doing it, which he doesn't have yet.

[Caller]

He's been doing it for over three years. He's been doing it for over three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you could offer him a buy. Buyout. A lump sum buyout.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't. I don't understand what you're asking us.

[Caller]

Had not thought about that. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That would set you free to get married, and it would set him free from you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sounds like a win. Win.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you got a financial planner?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, sit down with them and ask them to help you do some calculations of what this might be worth in a lump sum. And, you know, because $60,000 a year for 30 years is a lot of money.

[Caller]

Yeah. I'm not sure on this lump. Some buyout idea. That never crossed my mind. So, yeah. As far as, like, being in another relationship and consider this. I'm not saying that I'm with someone considering this. I'm asking about this because it's a topic of discussion. Like, in the community where I live, so many people are in this situation and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, I'm a person of faith that I don't tell people to shack up. There's not a circumstance I'm going to do that.

[Caller]

Okay. So. So a lot of people, what they do here is like, they'll have a commitment ceremony. You know, everything but the state license. So I was wondering if that is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I don't know. I mean, you'd have to talk to your. If you're a person of faith, you talk to your pastor of. Do you consider that being remarried or not. But if you consider it being remarried, then you're unethical to continue to violate the divorce decree. You're just ducking it.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, I think you're talking about a lot of hypotheticals all of a sudden and I suddenly don't care.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you just do. I mean, just have a, you know. No, I'm not going to tell you to shack up. There's not enough money in the world. I'm going to tell you to go do that. Sorry. I've got, you know, it's called standards, it's called principles, it's called ethics. And that's, you know, not saying I'm perfect. I'm not. There's a lot of stuff I've done in the past that I'm certainly glad Twitter wasn't around when I was in college. And so. But the. But I'm not going to, you know, tell somebody going forward to enter into something that I don't believe that would be inconsistent for me to do that. If I wouldn't tell my daughter to do it, if I wouldn't tell my best friend to do it, I'm not going to tell you to do it. So you've got to decide that for yourself. I can't make that decision for you. But it's not a financial decision. And if you want to try to skirt the ethics on it, I think that's going to bite you later in other ways. Because if you're willing to lie about that to get money, then what else are you willing to lie about to get money? And I'm not, I'm just not going to do that. But I have negotiated a lot lumps on buyouts and they're really rather pleasant. Cuz everyone gets free.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Everyone's happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

From the past, the tethering Sam, our scripture of the day, Second Corinthians 4, 7. But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all surpassing power is from God and not from us. Earl Wilson says today there are three kinds of people. The haves, the have nots, and the have not paid for what they have. That's pretty good. Like that. Alice is with us in Seattle. Hey Alice, what's up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's so good.

[Caller]

Hello.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi.

[Caller]

How are you guys doing today?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Doing great.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help? Alice.

[Caller]

My question was how do I get over the fear of trying to start a career? Like just even thinking about getting started before, you know, I've actually started.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm having trouble understanding you, honey. Speak directly into your Phone place. You're having a fear about what?

[Caller]

How do I get over the fear of starting a career before I've even started?

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

28.

[Dave Ramsey]

28. Okay. Are you nervous right now? Is that what I'm hearing in your voice?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

I'm excited and nervous.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. I'm just making sure I was hearing what I thought I was hearing. I didn't want to misjudge that. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What are you scared of?

[Caller]

I was feeling disappointing. Like my employers or future employers.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your new career?

[Caller]

So I went to school for literary studies. My plan was always to go into editing, copy editing, or just freelance editing them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I guess I would tell you there's a hundred percent chance you will, over the course of your working career, you will do a thing that your supervisor doesn't like or that thought you could have done better. I've done that here. Could have given a little bit better talk, could have turned in a draft earlier, whatever. And so I think knowing that perfection can't be the goal might free you from trying to. Trying to keep treading water towards that goal and then say, okay, then what must be true for me to go in and do the best possible work I can on a day in and day out basis.

[Dave Ramsey]

How athletic are you?

[Caller]

I'm not that athletic, but I do like reading.

[Dave Ramsey]

You do like what?

[Caller]

Running.

[Dave Ramsey]

Running. Okay, good. All right. Have you distance running? Have you done any races?

[Caller]

Races? I did cross country.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm saying, like, have you done some half marathons or anything like that?

[Caller]

No, I was, I was thinking about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. I've done about. It's been a while. I think I quit running because of knees and stuff about 10 years ago. But prior to that I did about 20 half marathons and the Ethiopians won every one of them. I didn't win one. Little pudgy bald guys generally don't win marathons. And so what I'm bringing up is that the secret to happiness is lower expectations. I didn't enter those races thinking I was going to win, and so I'm going to enjoy the race. Don't enter this career thinking you're going to be perfect and then it might fail, but you can go do it another one. So what? You're not going to die from it and just expect that it's not going to be perfect because that's kind of how it is going to be. It's not going to be perfect. I mean, you're not, you know, because part of being an editor is you're pissing off the people that you're editing. I don't like being edited.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't either. And I talk too much, Alice. So I desperately, desperately need an editor. Listen, my last book, we left 40,000 words on the floor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, and there's some grammar, too, but.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, because I write too much. I'm too wordy. I keep going and going.

[Dave Ramsey]

No author, like, no writer likes to be edited. It's not fun. So you're getting ready to enter a career that's not fun for the people you're helping. You're a little bit like a surgeon. Nobody likes to be cut on, but they don't want to die.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And they're so grateful when the surgery's over.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, A little bit like the pimp.

[Caller]

Like, I'm just procrastinating.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

Procrastinating. Because I'm, you know, I'm just so paralyzed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's. There's.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have. You have. You just have an unrealistic expectation that everything's going to be perfect, and it's not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's a great quote by a woman out of the UK And I just lost her name, but said imposter syndrome is the fear that other people are judging you as harshly as you're judging yourself. Yourself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ooh, that's pretty good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it sounds like before anyone even has a chance to judge you, you have already been your judge and jury and executioner. And I want to tell you, I think you're delightful.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so I think that the voice that is. That is the harshest to you right now may have started with a mom or a dad or a coach or somebody who was ugly to you when you were a kid, but somehow, over time, that has morphed into your voice. And I just want to challenge you to start talking to my new friend Alice, a little bit kinder or a lot kinder. Is that a fair request?

[Caller]

Yes. I. I try.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but you talk to yourself worse than you would ever let somebody talk to one of your friends, right?

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so sometimes it is. It's simple as getting a journal and writing. Writing a couple of things you're grateful for every morning and writing a note to yourself. And I'm not talking about some, like. Like, super empowerment. Like, oh, yeah. Like, not that. I'm talking about three things I'm grateful for and three things I'm gonna do today because I'm worth that and just make it a regular practice. And all you're doing is changing your default setting. Inside your mind that starts with, you're worthless and you're probably going to fail to. This is going to be hard and I'm going to give it my best. And that's just going to be a thing you practice.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I wrote a book by my friend John Maxwell called Failing Forward. And one of the things he said in there that helped me on a lot of things is remember that when you're doing stuff, for instance, in business, we're always trying ideas and the bulk of our ideas end up sucking. And then occasionally you get one that's brilliant and they don't know about the other 90 things that you did wrong, but the brilliant one makes you look brilliant. And then you're on the COVID of Success magazine or whatever other bull crap's out there, right? But he said in the book Failing Forward, he said, just reframe it and say, it's not failure. I'm experimenting. I found one more way that it doesn't work. I found another way that it doesn't work. I took up golf. I found a lot of ways that doesn't work. The secret to happiness is low expectation. So it's, yeah, I want to be excellent. I'm going to work hard. I'm going to experiment, though. And when you're a scientist and you're experimenting, you learn from failure, you expect failure. And it is part of the experiment. I'm experimenting. I'm not failing. And the old, you know, the old adage of Edison, they asked him, you know, the reporter asked him one time, you know, how is it that you found 9900 and something ways that the light bulb didn't work or how many you failed 9,900 times? He goes, No, I didn't fail. I found 9,000 ways. It didn't work before. I found one that did work. And he invented the light bulb. So there you go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so it's, there's a couple of practical things, Alice, when you get a new job and I want you to make a commitment, I will apply for three jobs a day. I will apply for two jobs a day. A day. Because it's not a procrastination thing. It's. I keep promises to myself. I'm a person who keeps promises to myself. I will apply for two jobs a day. I will talk to somebody who's an editor in my local community and see if they have any ideas. But a thing I've always done with my supervisors when I join a company is I ask them, how do you want to hear stuff that, that might be hard for you to hear how when I turn something in, how do you want to get that? And. And it's a way just to kind of take some of the fear and some of those variables off the table, and then I'm going to do the best I can to meet those expectations. But going first and having those conversations, it just takes that fear away. Anxiety gets stronger the more you avoid the thing that your body's making you anxious about. You got to head right through the middle of it. And I wish there was a hack to that. There just isn't. You got to go right through the middle of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really good question, Alice. We're proud of you. Go get them, kiddo. I think you got this, John. Good show today. Well done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're getting better, Dave. Hang in there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hang in there 30, 40 more years. I may get this figured out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hang in there, my friend. Getting better.

[Dave Ramsey]

We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Caller]

Happy.