Don’t Let Panic Derail Your Plan

Summary

The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Don’t Let Panic Derail Your Plan
Air Date: September 10, 2025
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman
Episode Theme:
This episode centers on staying grounded and making smart, practical financial decisions in the face of panic, unexpected life changes, and overwhelming situations. Through live calls and candid conversation, Dave Ramsey and Ken Coleman provide both strategic guidance and tough love, helping listeners avoid emotional mistakes, develop concrete plans, and gain perspective—even during life’s most stressful money moments. Topics cover everything from building savings when expecting a child to tackling marital financial abuse, making inheritance decisions, and rethinking the American dream amid modern economic anxieties.

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Key Discussions & Insights

1. Facing Financial Panic and Unexpected Change

[00:47–09:13]

• Caller Shea (23, expecting first child) shares her unplanned pregnancy, concerns over budget shortfalls when she stops work, and desire for guidance.
• Dave affirms the normalcy of anxiety in these moments:
  “Nothing scared the crap out of me like the first baby on the way.”—Dave (02:11)
• Advice:
  • Get very serious about careers and income (both spouses).
  • Pile up as much cash as possible before the baby comes ("build a storm cellar and fill it with money"—07:45).
  • Take on extra jobs, develop a long-term plan for both partners (career mapping, upward mobility).
  • Explore trades (for husband) and self-employment (for Shea).

Memorable Quote:

"It's time it got real. And the short term, you gotta pile up some cash and get ready. Long term, it's time to do big boy, big girl jobs." —Dave (08:25)

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2. Financial Control, Marital Abuse, and Empowerment

[11:05–16:55]

• Caller Brandy (Georgia): 25-year marriage, feels financially infantilized, no access to money or accounts, forced to ask husband for money.
• Dave and Ken: Call out the situation as financial and emotional abuse.
• Advice:
  • Demand dignity and joint decision-making.
  • Seek marriage counseling immediately.
  • Decide if you're prepared to stay in a marriage where you’re treated as a child.

Notable Quotes:

"He needs to be shaken. He needs to be shaken." —Ken (16:44)
"That's enabling. That's just bullcrap. I love him so much, I'm willing to be abused. Come on." —Dave (16:39)

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3. Young Families in Debt and The Bankruptcy Myth

[17:14–21:29]

• Caller John (20, 1-year-old child): $32k student debt, two car loans, low income, considers bankruptcy.
• Dave's Take:
  • "You're not bankrupt, you're scared and you've done dumb things." (18:39)
  • Sell unaffordable cars, wife must defer school, take extra jobs, get on a budget.
  • Enroll in Financial Peace University and get a Ramsey coach.

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4. Celebrating the Power of Capitalism and the American Dream

[24:34–30:15]

• Blake’s Call: Starting higher-paying job, asks for investment tips.
• Ramsey Advice:
  • Prioritize debt and emergency fund before investing.
  • Use employer-provided 401k (Roth, if available), invest in growth stock mutual funds after debt is gone.
• Broader Message:
  • Dave & Ken rail against media narratives that “capitalism is dead.”
  • Young people today have “the most opportunity to build wealth the fastest... since man began walking the earth.” (28:43)
• Quote:

  “If you sit around and suck your communist thumb and swine about capitalism and wages and house prices while living in your mother's basement typing on your $2,000 iPhone instead of working your little butt off, then you deserve what you get...” —Dave (29:18)

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5. Inheritance Decisions: Debt or Invest?

[33:50–39:00]

• Caller James: Receives $1 million inheritance, asks if he should invest or pay off the farm/home/student loans.
• Dave: Pay everything off first, becomes fully debt-free; a new financial advisor is recommended.
• Insight: Debt-free living + $200k household income = long-term multi-millionaire potential.

Quote:

"We actually studied 10,167 actual millionaires... the number that said 'the way I did it was investing instead of paying off my farm' was precisely zero." —Dave (36:11)

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6. Millionaire Yet Struggling—The Hidden Dangers of Over-Leverage

[39:04–43:37]

• Caroline’s Call: Net worth millionaire on paper, but can’t make $15k/month expenses.
• Dave: You’ve over-leveraged in real estate. Sell everything but your residence and right-size expenses.
• Hard Truth:
  • “You bought houses you can't afford, honey.” (42:49)
  • Net worth is “invalid” if it’s tied up in debt.

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7. Career Setbacks, Disability, and Starting Over

[45:12–53:08]

• Chris (Wyoming): Deaf, newly fired, sole breadwinner for disabled wife and kids.
• Advice:
  • Pick up any work possible (especially warehouse/labor), sell high-payment vehicles, cut expenses.
  • “Depression is real ... but you are the person your entire household is relying on. You can’t accept limitations right now.” –Ken (52:15)

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8. Should You Venmo the Government for National Debt?

[56:00–60:37]

• Carlos’s Question: Should citizens pay national debt via Venmo per new Treasury initiative?
• Dave & Ken: Satirically reject the idea; call out flawed government spending and stress smarter tax policies.

Quote:

"If you're that stupid, you shouldn't have any money anyway." —Ken (60:03)

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9. Buy or Rent in the Military?

[61:03–64:22]

• Caller Charles (military, moving to Hawaii): Unsure whether to buy or rent.
• Dave’s long-standing military advice: Usually rent, especially in saturated military markets. Only buy in strong non-military, fast-appreciating areas.

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10. Mastering The Debt Snowball and Car Decisions

[66:18–70:21]

• Brittany’s Dilemma: Pregnant, which debt to attack first—car loan or student loans?
• Dave and Ken: Sell car, buy a cheaper van, then focus on student loans—the classic Debt Snowball.

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11. Family Responsibility vs. Building Your Own Life

[71:03–74:39]

• Grant’s Story: Cares for disabled father, torn between his own future and father's needs.
• Dave: It’s not selfish to arrange proper care for a parent (using their own assets like home equity) so that you can also build a life and family of your own.

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12. Using Gifts and Windfalls Wisely

[75:46–79:44]

• EJ’s Call: Receiving a $20k marriage gift, torn whether to pay off $18k loans or do something “sexier.”
• Dave: Use all of it to pay debt, though it's emotionally unsexy—it's the best way to empower your future.

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13. Can I Afford a Baby If My House Is a Money Pit?

[80:21–83:48]

• Kenneth (Georgia): Worries if he can afford a second child given house repairs.
• Ramsey’s Wisdom:
  • Keep side gig to make house payment work.
  • If the house is truly a “money pit,” consider selling, but often repairs come in waves.
  • “If you gotta trade a money pit for a baby, I’d trade for the baby.”—Dave (81:23)

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14. Financial Math Myths Busted

[86:53–95:00]

• Roth 401k Rollover Q&A
• Amortization and mortgage prepay misconceptions explained
• Why not to transfer real estate to heirs before death (gift tax, loss of stepped-up basis)

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15. Should I Buy a House Before Marriage?

[96:37–101:13]

• Stephanie (engaged): Debates buying a house solo before marriage.
• Dave: Absolutely not—wait, combine finances, pay off partner’s debt after marriage.

Quote:

“The best way for you guys to become wealthy is join your lives. Combine everything: assets, liabilities, incomes.” —Dave (98:08)

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16. Retiring With Too Little, But It’s Not Too Late

[102:43–105:09]

• Loretta (64): Paid-off home, low savings, wants to retire.
• Dave:
  • Delay retirement, live on as little as possible, aggressively save income now.
  • Don’t retire to only Social Security—build a nest egg first, even starting later works.

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17. When to Pay Off Your 2.75% Mortgage vs. Save for Next Home

[106:37–111:12]

• Jake (Minnesota):
  • Guidance: Still make retirement a real priority. Don’t try to keep two mortgages. Be patient, contingency offers only.

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18. Best Way to Use a Land Inheritance

[112:41–115:51]

• Allen’s Land Question: Sell inherited land, invest in rentals or beach condos?
• Dave: Avoid volatile resort real estate for investments; prefer steady residential rentals near home.

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19. Saving for Kids’ College—How Much is Enough?

[117:12–124:54]

• Gerard: Concerned by high tuition inflation, worries he’s falling behind on saving for young kids’ college.
• Dave & Ken: A couple thousand per year in a 529 will go far, and higher ed will likely look very different in 10–15 years. Avoid buying expensive degrees that don’t provide ROI.

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Notable Moments and Quotes

On American Opportunity

“If you are right now in your 20s, you have the most opportunity to build wealth the fastest of any time, in any period, in any location since man began walking the earth beside Eve.” —Dave (28:43)

On Marital Financial Abuse

“Let her have the dignity of being one of the two adults in the household. That’s a marriage counseling thing, honey. I can’t dictate that.” —Dave (15:38)

On Emotional Responses to Windfalls

"It's hard to say yay... but the faster you get out of debt, the faster you have control of your most powerful wealth building tool—which is not the $20,000, but your income." —Dave (78:24)

On Parenting and Responsibilities

“No dad that is a good man wants his kid to have no life when he’s sitting on a house that the money from the house will take care of him. You’re supposed to go on and have a life, young man.” —Dave (74:38)

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High-Impact Strategies Shared

• When life takes a sudden turn, work like crazy for a season to shore up cash, then develop a long-term plan.
• Sell expensive assets (especially vehicles) if they’re breaking your budget.
• Always combine finances and plans after marriage—never buy a house solo if you’re soon to wed.
• Prioritize debt freedom and a robust emergency fund over flashy investments or lifestyle upgrades.
• Plan for college conservatively; higher ed will shift, not every degree is worth its price.
• Never let guilt or legacy (e.g., keeping a parent’s house for the sake of inheritance) ruin your own family’s future.

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Recurring Ramsey Principles Exemplified

• Work hard, be decisive, and don’t wait for permission or “perfect” circumstances.
• Don’t be a victim: take control, don’t make excuses, and never let panic derail your plan.
• Live debt free, invest steadily, and focus on the long-term rather than immediate consumer gratification.
• **Seek wise counsel—**but verify advice, as with the “bad financial advisor" call.
• **Generosity and legacy matter—**but not at the expense of your own household's wellbeing.

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Final Words

[126:15–end]
Dave closes, as always, emphasizing that true financial peace comes from daily wise choices—both financial and spiritual:

“There’s ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that’s to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.”

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This episode delivers a blend of encouragement, realism, and actionable steps—reminding listeners: Don’t let panic or peer pressure dictate your financial moves; trust the plan, do the work, and keep your values in sight.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal's broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality number one, best selling author and host of the front row seat on Ramsey Network is my co host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Shea is in Nashville. Hi, Shea, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey there. I'm so. Well, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

So I'm just in an interesting situation right now. I just found out I'm expecting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yay. Is that your first?

[Caller or Guest]

With my husband, of course. What was that say?

[Dave Ramsey]

Your first baby?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. How old are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm 23.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesomeness. Cool. Okay. Wonderful news.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. So the thing is, it's not planned. So we don't have our finances fully in order and with me out of work, when the time comes, we will be short of our budget. So if I could just get any advice on anything else we're missing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

On what else we could do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It just got real.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Why are you out of work?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, she's saying when she has the baby, right?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, I'm in work right now.

You are?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

I misunderstood.

[Caller or Guest]

It is getting tough already.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

With all the nausea.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You got a little morning sickness going, huh, kiddo? All right. This is so fun. All right, so I distinctly remember, like, it was yesterday. It wasn't, but like it was yesterday that when I graduated from college and got my first adult job, I felt like an adult. We got married, I felt a little bit more like an adult. But nothing scared the crap out of me like the first baby on the way.

[Caller or Guest]

It's the same way for me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. And so what little was left of your former high school, college, free wheeling, partying or not, but just not worrying about responsibilities. What little was left of that is now gone, right?

[Caller or Guest]

I suppose so.

[Dave Ramsey]

So now it's time to get real serious about your careers and real serious about the grown up stuff like making some money, having some money for you and this kid and figuring out how to do this. And that's why you're calling. I'm so proud of you. Way to. Cause you're reacting to a natural anxiety that we all have had. Any of us that have had a baby. Unless you're psychotic when you have. And when the baby actually comes, it's going to be another One, by the way, it's going to another level of seriousness. It's like a, whoa. This is. I'm now in charge of a life. I have a real burden here. I have a real responsibility here. You await here. You're going to feel it again, even when. When. When. When Junior enters the world. So. So this is so awesome. So what this means is probably more than ever before in your life, you're going to get real serious about making some money.

[Caller or Guest]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's all. That's what all that leads to. So what do you do for a living?

[Caller or Guest]

I refurbish furniture and woodworking in Nashville.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't make any money, do you?

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, I make a lot of money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, do you really? Okay, good.

[Caller or Guest]

I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What's a lot of money? What are you making?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I was cut back because I left work for a time, so I'm currently making $24 an hour at 32 hours a week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's not a lot of money.

[Caller or Guest]

In my mind, it has been.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, but you're saying you're scraping. You're scraping by and you're going. You're worried that. Okay. And what's your husband make?

[Caller or Guest]

He's making 2,200amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Y' all are starving to death.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

What does he do?

[Caller or Guest]

He works in a warehouse that supplies apartments with furniture and utilities.

[Dave Ramsey]

And. How old is he?

[Caller or Guest]

He's 23.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so he just took a job so y' all could have food and lights and water and that. That's. And he's not afraid of work. That's a good man. But now it's time to not do that anymore. It's time to take a career position and start thinking about what am I going to be doing when I'm 30 that makes $100,000 a year.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Both of you. And if you're going to be refinishing furniture, it's because you own a refurnishing furniture company. That's the only possible way. You're still doing that when you're 30, because you're not going to do artsy fartsy and make a living working for somebody else. Not going to work.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Yeah. I'm curious. What is his. What is his gold? Has he stated a professional idea or two or three to you?

[Caller or Guest]

He's had a few ideas, and he. He really would like to get into home inspections.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

He just.

He loves home supply.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Is he. Is he handy? Is he good fixing stuff or doing stuff? Does he find that he enjoys doing things like that?

[Caller or Guest]

He's not so much handy but he's very intellectual and he loves logistics.

[Dave Ramsey]

Uh huh.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

And he has no formal training.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

You guys just kind of out of high school. What's his background educationally?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, we, yeah, we are both out of high school, got jobs and have worked our ways up in the company so far.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Well, you know, when you look long term here, I would run those numbers and look at what, what a future looks like inspecting homes. That's a little bit of a niche now. I think there are people who do very well at it once they consolidate a lot of realtors and things in an area and they become go to and then they can scale themselves. But the reason I asked the question about the hands and is he good at things like that if he's analytical or logistics. I mean a career in logistics does have an upward mobility. But I'm telling you, if I'm 23 and I wake up today in your husband's shoes, I'm going to look at trades. I'm going to look at some of that talent that he has and we're going to give you the book. Find the work you're wired to do. It's got the get clear assessment in it. I really want him to take it. I'd like you to take it. We'll give you Kelly. Let's give him a book each. There are two codes. One book. Here's the deal. He needs to be looking at the trades right now because there's so much upward mobility for him to make. Much more than he's making right now at 22 bucks an hour.

[Dave Ramsey]

And secondly, 2,200amonth is worse than 22 bucks.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

That's right, 2200amonth. But more importantly, there's a path to ownership in the trades right now. And if he has any kind of talent in that area, I would be looking at that if I were him because of the opportunities.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So there's two parts to the equation. We're going to send you that book and you guys are going to take the assessment and I want you to develop a long term game plan for both of you. What are you going to be doing when this kid is 10 that makes, that makes a lot of money for your family and that you enjoy and that you're passionate about. And it's all three are congruent. Okay. The second part of the equation though is what are you going to be doing in the next nine months? You guys need to take six different jobs. All of you, you need to work like crazy people and pile up as much cash as you can pile up right now. Get ready. Because you're getting ready to have a hiccup in your income nine months from now. Right?

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you got to get ready. And the way you get ready is you build a storm cellar and you fill it with money and you go work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work like crazy. For a short period of time, if.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

You have family in the area that can help watch the baby, you could spin off this woodworking that you do and work full time or close to full time if you schedule, you know, your work around weekends, odd hours. Because it's really project based. That's how you can make sure we don't miss any money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thinking like that sounds like she's doing it for someone else by the hour.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

I agree. But my point is, can she now do that for herself? That's right. And then set her own hours? Because these are project based.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's time it got real. That's the summation of the call. It got real. And the short term, you got to pile up some cash and get ready. Long term, it's now time to do big boy, big girl Jobs, Careers. Not just I take a job that pays me some money so I can make it to the weekend. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady, and she had three kids pregnant, and husband didn't have life insurance. And I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite.

Right.

If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out, how am I gonna afford childcare? How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like. And it just takes the grief and the sa of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like, when you have to think through how am I going to pay my.

[Dave Ramsey]

Bills in the middle next week. Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

In the middle of all that grief. Like, it's just. It is. It's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like, so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And we keep re upping it because I'm like, I just want it there. Like, there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money. If something suddenly happens and it doesn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies, it doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud, and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza there really is.

[Caller or Guest]

So that is one thing to do, to say I love you to your family.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we've used Zander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282. Or go to zander.com Brandy is with us in Georgia. Hi, Brandy. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm good, Mr. Ramsey. How are you doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I've been married for 25 years, and I don't work at the time. I'm taking care of my grandson, which my husband totally, you know, is on board with that. But I get no money unless I have to ask for it. And we are debt free. We owe nothing. And I just feel like anything I say, he doesn't want to take my advice or anything. Like, I feel like we need to sell our house now because it's a bigger house and we don't really need all the room, and we could sell this, and we have a really good life. I mean, I feel like, I don't know, I just fuck his daughter instead of his wife.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oof. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I just. I don't know. I mean, what should I. Like, we end up separating, like, two years ago, and I found out actually what he was worth. We was worth. Like, I don't know anything. If he was to pass away tomorrow, I wouldn't know what to do. I don't know what's in his bank account. I have no access to anything. My name's not on his business. My name's not on his debit card.

You know, a card.

I can't use his debit card. And we've been married for 25 years. I'm like, you know, and it really aggravated me when we Separated because my attorney, you know, gave me all this information on, you know, what he's got. And I was just like, I feel like I deserve that, you know, more.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Where's the marriage now?

[Caller or Guest]

We're together. I take care of my grandson. I can work. Like, if I, you know, even said, do you want me to work? He's like, no, I want you to take care of our grandson. You know, I think it's wonderful that we can do that. But it's like, I don't get paid for taking care of my grandson. So I'm had to always ask him for money, you know, does he give.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

You money when you ask what's that transaction like that?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, he does. But he only gives me money for what I need. Like, if I'm going to get groceries, he'll give me like $200.

I'm like, $200.

Don't buy anything, you know. And my fear is I'm gonna get up to the counter and not have enough money and have to put everything back. And I know he's got the money to give me. That's what so, you know, it makes me so aggravated at him.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Well, what happened over a two year or. You separated two years ago. What happened as a result of separating? Because it doesn't sound like anything has changed.

[Caller or Guest]

And honestly, I feel like we got.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you not still separated if nothing changed?

[Caller or Guest]

I know. Well, financially it was so expensive having to pay attorney fees, which now he had to pay me $750 a week alimony during that time. But I had to get a place to live, so I didn't realize how expensive things was because I was, you know, we didn't. Had no debt. So I went from not having no debt to like, you know, 300, probably 3, 500amonth. And I had to pay, you know, for my rent.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

So you went back to jail and because it was too expensive to be free. That's what, what's. That's what I'm hearing.

[Caller or Guest]

And yeah, I just love them so much. It's crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

So why did you call us? I'm so confused. What do you want us to do?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I just feel like, am I in the wrong for wanting, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're not in the wrong, but you're not doing anything about it.

[Caller or Guest]

I know. That's why I called you. Get some money.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can't do anything about it. You got to do something about it.

[Caller or Guest]

What can I do?

[Dave Ramsey]

What should I do? I think you've got to decide if you want to be married. To someone that treats you this way. And you're going to have to sit down. My recommendation would be that the two of you sit down with a good marriage counselor and that Bubba hears for the first time in his 25 freaking years that he's mistreating his wife.

[Caller or Guest]

And he feels. He says, I don't manage.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care what he says. You actually care what he says. But I don't.

[Caller or Guest]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you need to not care what he says. You need to go see a marriage counselor because he. He sucks as a husband.

[Caller or Guest]

I agree. Because, like, I had to go to the doctor yesterday, darling.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're just going to talk my arm off and do nothing. I can tell. I can tell exactly what's going to happen with you. Yeah, He. You got to decide what you're going to do, okay? And quit telling me stories about him. Are you going to actually get on the phone and call a marriage counselor and go sit down with one? You need to do that today. And if you don't do that, quit telling people stories about him. Shut up. Live with it. Okay? If you're not going to do nothing about it, shut up about it. But if you're going to do something, then we'll pray for you and back you, because. And yes, you're correct, honey, that the situation's weird and he's not a good husband. He's mistreating his wife. And the problem is, he's probably not a bad guy. He's probably just doesn't even know how to do it. He probably doesn't know how to be a good husband. He thinks he's taking care of you. He may be that dumb. And so we're going to have to educate him and teach him that this is emotional financial abuse, dude. And so you need to involve your wife in the decisions. Let her have the dignity of being one of the two adults in the household. That's a marriage counseling thing, honey. I can't dictate that. I don't have a magic wand over here to tap him on his little head and say, that's it, dude. Now you're magically healed, and I can't do that from here. But you're going to have to work on it. And I don't think you're going to. You just talk about it all the time.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Yeah, you've married a control freak, and then you've let him get more and more control over 25 years. And then you summoned up some guts, which I admire two years ago. But then it ended up Being a pump fake. Yeah, you just pump faked. Or he called your bluff. He played to your greatest fears as my guest. Not knowing the details and you caved and you've convinced yourself that I love him so much. And I don't think that's the case.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's enabling. That's just bullcrap. I love him so much, I'm willing to be abused. Come on.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

He's warped. I don't think he's dumb. I think he's warped because he's really unhealthy. And I'm not attacking him and I'm not making excuses for him, but you've got to shake him. He needs to be shaken.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If this guy was my buddy, I'd be boxing his ears, man. I'd be giving him a hard time.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

That'd be fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

That'd be an interesting conversation, wouldn't it? Of course he wouldn't have been my buddy because he wouldn't. Because it's true. That wouldn't have worked out. That wouldn't have worked out either. John is in Nashville. Hi, John. How you doing.

[Caller or Guest]

Yourself, Mr. Ramsey?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I'm having some issues. I'm 20 years old. I have a one year old kid and a wife and I'm in so, like, deep debt to the point where I think I'm gonna have to go bankrupt.

[Dave Ramsey]

What kind of debt have you got, honey?

[Caller or Guest]

I have 32,000 student debts for my wife. She's currently in school. And then I have.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're running up. You have $32,000 in student debt and you're continuing to run up student loan debt?

[Caller or Guest]

No. So that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who's paying for her school?

[Caller or Guest]

I am. She's a stay at home mom.

[Dave Ramsey]

With what?

[Caller or Guest]

We have a one year old with me working.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. And what other debt do you have? Sure.

[Caller or Guest]

And then I have two vehicle loans and on my truck I'm two months behind and I owe.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe on your truck?

[Caller or Guest]

I owe 11,700.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What do you owe on the other car? What do you owe on the other car?

[Caller or Guest]

10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what other debts do you have? Credit cards.

[Caller or Guest]

I have 3k in personal loans and then about 1000 credit card.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And what do you make sure I make?

[Caller or Guest]

$3,500 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Okay. You're. You're not bankrupt. You're 20 years old, you have a baby and you're scared and you've done some dumb things that have put you in A corner, but it's not bankrupted you. Okay? You have cars that you can't afford. Okay? You can't afford these cars, obviously. That's why you're behind on the truck. You do not have any organization to your money, no budget or anything else. And student loans are not bankruptible. And you can't bankrupt on the cars unless you pay the bill. And if you don't pay the bill, you give up the car in bankruptcy.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you have no cars and you still got the student loans, you could be bankrupt, but it really wouldn't do you much good. You could just sell the cars and still have the student loan and not be bankrupt.

[Caller or Guest]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the truck worth?

[Caller or Guest]

Whenever they pulled it, I had the loan out for 12, 7, 50.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the truck worth?

[Caller or Guest]

It's probably worth 9,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. And who do you owe the money to?

[Caller or Guest]

The bank.

[Dave Ramsey]

Local bank. Okay. And what about the $10,000 car? What's it worth?

[Caller or Guest]

It. We paid 16 for it. I gave, you know, 6,000 down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. You need to sell that car this week.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And your wife can't be in school. You can't afford to pay for school right now when your truck payments are behind. Your wife's not going to school. You don't do that. Okay? You gotta get organized here. We're gonna help you, man. I've been where you are and been scared with a little baby and didn't know what to do. We're gonna put a Ramsey coach in your corner at my expense. We're gonna pay for it and we'll put you into Financial Peace University. And you and your wife are gonna do that. You're gonna have to sell everything and you're gonna have to work like a maniac. And you can turn this around and we can show you how you're gonna. Let's face it, health insurance today is more complicated than ever. The system isn't built to help the average person understand, and it leaves too many families unprotected. That's why you need my friends at Health Trust Financial. They aren't just brokers. They're trusted health insurance advisors who have been helping families like yours for over 20 years. You don't have to navigate it alone. The experts at Health Trust Financial listen to your needs, work to understand your family situation and budget, then help you choose the health insurance plan that's right for you. That's why they're Ramsey trusted and why we've worked with them for two decades. Look, medical debt is the number One cause of bankruptcy in America today. One hospital visit can wipe out your savings and undo all your hard work. So health insurance isn't optional. It's part of your financial defense plan. Health Trust Financial knows their stuff and they're the only health insurance provider I recommend. So get clear about health insurance plans and get the coverage that's right for you@healthtrust financial.com. buying or Selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner, not somebody who got their license three weeks ago and happens to be your Aunt Sally. Bad idea. You need like a real, real estate agent, like somebody that knows what the flip they're doing. Hello? The Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a high octane, high protein top agent that you can trust, that we trust to make your home a blessing and not a burden. It's easy. You compare the agent profiles, you can interview them. You can choose the right one to work with among the Ramsey trusted bunch. To find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free, go to Ramsey Solutions.com agent or click the link in the show notes. Blake's with us in Asheville, North Carolina. Hi, Blake. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm good, Mr. Ramsey. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

So I'm starting a new job next week. I'm leaving my current job tomorrow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, cool. Big deal, big raise.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, big deal it on paper. It's more money, which I'm excited about.

[Dave Ramsey]

How's it on paper and not real?

[Caller or Guest]

Because it's not in my bank account yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, because it hadn't happened yet. Okay.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Yeah, I thought that was, I thought that was a congressman on Meet the Press for a second with that answer.

[Dave Ramsey]

On paper, the promise is that we're going to get a raise. Okay, I got you. All right.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. About nineteen hundred dollars more a month guaranteed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool.

[Caller or Guest]

Starting out 25 an hour, 4 days a week, 12 hour shifts, long shifts. But I get the whole weekend off, which is a blessing from what I'm currently doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

So I'm just kind of looking. I want to start investing money. I've not had any wiggle room in my financial situation to start investing. So I'm kind of just kind of looking where and what I need to do to start, start investing. And by the time I'm 60.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you'd have some, you'd have some money. Good for you. So do you have a 401k at the new place?

[Caller or Guest]

I'll have to set one up after 90 days.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Do the Roth 401K Roth.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That means it's going to grow tax free. But the money, but you're going to pay taxes on the money that you put into it now, which is whoop deep, no big deal. And they're going to match it probably. And if they do, they match it with none. Roth, which is okay. And pick and pick good growth stock mutual funds. You can go back and listen to this later if you want to. But there's four types of mutual funds we invest in. I invest in, Ken invests in. It's what we teach. Growth, growth and income. Aggressive growth and international. Those are the four categories you're looking for. And you're looking for long track records. Five years or more on those, preferably 10 years or more, but long track records. And so if you've got two growth funds, you can look at them and go, okay, this one has a 10 year track record and it is averaged 12%. And this one has an eight year track record and it is averaged 11%. Oh, I'm going with the other one. Okay. You know what I'm saying? That's how you're looking at it. It's not real hard. And they can show you every bit of that in the HR stuff with your 401k when the 90 days comes up. And we recommend you put 15% of your income, not more, not less, into your 401k. Now that is if you are debt free and have your emergency fund in place of three to six months of expenses. Is that true?

[Caller or Guest]

That is not okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then we don't need to start investing yet. We need a first investment is to get the debt paid off so that you've got the money to invest.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt have you got?

[Caller or Guest]

I have 36,000 student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, I'm gonna attack that like my hair is on fire.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. In a good. I'm gonna be in a good position next month especially to start attacking that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, you got an extra 1900 plus you can squeeze your budget down. So $3,000 in times 12 is 36,000. You're done in one year, you got a $2,000 raise and I'm pulling another thousand out of your party budget. And you're going to get out of debt in a year and those weekends.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

So you got some time there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Go make some money on the weekends. Let's do it even fast.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I do, I do have a weekend kind of gig.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. What do you mean?

[Caller or Guest]

It's just depending on what it is I do. I work in a production event production. So I do. I got my degree in theater focusing and lighting design. So I do like concerts and weddings, corporate events.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

And just depending on the position, it depends on the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I'd be working all the time for a short period of time. If they don't have one of those gigs going, I'd be doing something else. Okay. Lots of stuff going on in your area there in Asheville. Lots of things you can lay your hand to as a temporary thing because the faster you get out of debt, the faster you get to invest, the faster you're wealthy. Hello.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's the way we're looking at this thing. That's how we're going to go at it. Really Good question, sir. Congratulations on moving on up. I like it, I like it, I like it.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

By the way, just got to say this real quick because we continue to see this stuff on social media and in traditional media about. Poll came out from Gallup, just came out yesterday. The American people losing faith in capitalism. Is the American dream alive and well? And all this crap that gets put out there. And I just want to point out, here's a young man who is on the precipice of realizing the American dream and he's calling in with a question like this. So I just want to contrast all the stuff you hear versus here's a real young man who's got it figured out and he's going to get debt free and he's going to be a multimillionaire because he's doing this early on. So this is a separate narrative than what you hear on TikTok and Facebook and all the things. This is a real deal here. So I applaud you, Blake, because you are. The numbers change when people do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Guys, when you've been reading these things, you're being lied to.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

The communist professors have put out the poll that capitalism is dead and the communist professors are on payroll at the college that was financed with your freaking student loans. You need to keep in mind where this crap is coming from. So capitalism is not dead. As a matter of fact, it is the best way in human history at this particular moment in time. You have, if you are right now in your 20s, you have the most opportunity to build wealth the fastest of any time, in any period, in any location since man began walking the earth beside Eve. Old Adam, remember him? Yeah. Since then, all the way to now. This is the best moment in time where I, in my 20s, right now, broke. I could Be a millionaire so freaking fast it would blind you. There is so much opportunity. But if you sit around and suck your communist thumb and swine about capitalism and wages and house prices while living in your mother's basement typing on your $2,000 iPhone instead of working your little butt off, then you deserve what you get because you're signing up for victim mentality. We don't do victim around here. We do Victor. Blake is a Victor.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

That's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's gonna get it. Poster child, that guy right there, man. He's a stud. Let me tell you, if he's single and you got a daughter over in Asheville, you need to try to tell her to find him because that one's a keeper right there. That guy's going places, right? You don't want your daughter marrying a dreamer. They'll be in your basement. Or, you know, I'm going to be. I'm going to. What do you do? I'm an activist. I pick it against capitalism. Yeah. God help me. Geez. Get away from my kid.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Because, you know, the captains of industry are looking on the streets of Chicago and New York and LA for all those placards, those poster boards are making a difference. It's just ridiculous.

[Dave Ramsey]

You think I make a single decision at Ramsey based on those morons? Absolutely zero. Okay? Just zero. So nobody does. People that are doing things don't have time to watch that garbage.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, so yeah, I get aggravated, but sure. That's a good point, Ken. That. Truthfully, the digital age, you can just decide and I'm in business. And a minute and a half later, you have a website and Shopify will set the stinking thing up and you start selling your little idea. And then when it fails, you can start another one next week. I mean, it's just the most wonderful time to be alive and make money and help people. It's an amazing moment in time.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Blake just got a promotion and he has got a side hustle on the weekend. If he can do it, you can do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But he's been destroyed by $36,000 worth of student loan debt. He's hopeless. He'll never make it. The system is rigged against poor bl. We've told you for years, debt is dumb, cash is king, and the borrower is slave to the lender. So when we find a bank that actually gets that, we shout it from the rooftops. You. That's why we've partnered with Fairwinds Credit Union. These guys aren't pushing credit cards or Auto loans like your current bank is. Fairwinds is on your side. And now they've taken it to the next level. They worked with us to create a high yield savings account that gives you a great rate without the junk. No bait and switch rates, no credit score games. Just a simple powerful way to help you build your emergency fund fast. It's part of what Fairwinds calls the smart bundle, made for Ramsey fans. You get high yield savings, a no fee checking account and zero gimmicks. Just common sense banking that works with the baby steps, not against them. And coming soon, they're launching a brand new Ramsey debit card. It says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front of it. That's not just a card. That's a daily reminder that you do money differently. So check them [e-mail] Ramsey Fairwinds is.

[Caller or Guest]

Federally insured by the NCUA.

[Dave Ramsey]

James is in Oklahoma. Hi, James. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Good, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey.

[Caller or Guest]

We recently came into an inheritance and we were wondering what to do with the money. We have a small farm and we owe. We still owe on it and that's it. But we didn't know if we should invest or pay it off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and how much of an inheritance did you receive, sir?

[Caller or Guest]

700,000. And there's roughly 330,000 left that's coming in additionally.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're going to get a million total. And how much is owed on the farm?

[Caller or Guest]

The total land is 336, but the house is separate. And my student loans, how much are you still? 46,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so 400,000 clears everything.

[Caller or Guest]

And out of a million, roughly 600 will clear everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, I got lost. You said you had 340,000 on the land and 40,000 student loans. Is there a house loan too?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, there's a house loan too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, oh, separate. Okay. So you could be debt free for 600,000. Still have 400,000 left over when the smoke clears. Okay, cool. Why would you not do that?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, we were talking. Our financial advisor was wanting to invest the 600,000 now and then, so we just didn't know if we should invest. And he was saying not to pay off the house because of the percentage. And I just didn't really know what to do to get debt free and then worry about investing or.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller or Guest]

Roughly 200,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so if you had zero payments, you'd have lots of money to invest, wouldn't you?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I think you need a new financial advisor.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, this one sucks. So. Yeah, yeah, honestly, I mean we have.

[Caller or Guest]

Cows too that, that help make the farm payment as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good. The cows make, make money in your pocket if you don't have a payment, right?

[Caller or Guest]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Yeah. This idea that wealth is built from borrowed money is mythology. When we actually look at the hard data, we studied 10,167 actual millionaires. The number of them that said the way I became a millionaire was my financial advisor told me to invest him instead of paying off my farm was precisely zero. 10,167 millionaires disagree with your financial advisor. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Okay. And so if you take the freed up cash flow that you will have and you quit borrowing money the rest of your life and you have, you're going to have approaching a 2 million dollar net worth when this all happens and a $200,000 income, you're going to be worth 20, 30, 40 million dollars, dude. When this is over. I mean, if you'll just stay out of debt and keep steadily investing and steadily being generous and paying cash for things from this point forward. And let me ask you, who passed away that left you this money?

[Caller or Guest]

My dad.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's a big. He was a big. He's a big what?

[Caller or Guest]

Fan of yours.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. So. Well, regardless if he was a fan of. He's probably a fan of mine because he probably did the stuff I'm talking about long before he, even before he even heard of me. And then he just found me and I agreed with him. Does that sound right?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

In other words, it's not me, it was him. And I think if he's in heaven and you pay off your farm. I see him smiling. What do you think? No.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir. I completely agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

He'll also be smiling when you fire this financial advisor.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

By the way, by the way, that's, that's the issue. This financial advisor you've trusted up into this point and he gave you this advice and yet something in you said, I think I should call Dave today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't ring with what dad taught me.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

So I trust the guy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dad's money I'm getting, I'm going to honor him with this legacy and this guy. Yeah. It doesn't feel right. So you can't be afraid to fork of your heart.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Yeah. So disappoint the financial advisor. That's what's going on here.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm happy to disappoint this person.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

I know you are. But a lot of our callers, we got to get them to a point where we realize, hey, you already answered this question before you called us.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the other thing, unless I miss my guess, this guy that I'm talking to on the phone right now is net worth. Before the inheritance was greater than the financial advisors guaranteed.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

The dirt, the cows, everything, all of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is just. Just saying. Caroline's in Colorado. Hi, Caroline, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hi. I'm good, thanks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm just, I'm feeling a little discouraged. A year ago, my husband and I were on baby step four. We had two full time jobs, three additional income streams, but in the last 12 months, my husband lost his job, we're down two income streams. We had to deplete our emergency savings, use some retirement funds, and go into debt. And why are we. Well, I guess I can explain that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You didn't have to, but you did. Why?

[Caller or Guest]

We were trying to get out of debt by selling one of our properties.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got into debt, you said?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, because it took us longer to sell the property and we had to put more into it to sell it than we were expecting to.

[Dave Ramsey]

But why did you not just go get the job and replace the income?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm sorry, which job?

[Dave Ramsey]

The one he lost.

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, he did. He found another job, but he had to take a pay cut.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, there's a lot of have to's in this story. All right. And okay, how can I best help, darling?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, so we, we are network millionaires, but we're struggling to get by month to month. And we recently sold one of our rental properties like I said, to get us out of debt, and we're just at a crossroads and unsure of what the next best move is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, if you have a net worth. So is your household expenses too high?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what are we doing to cut those?

[Caller or Guest]

I mean, I've cut back on everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's it take for you to live a year?

[Caller or Guest]

Rough. Well, including the mortgages that we have, it's around $15,000 a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're net worth millionaires, but you've leveraged yourself into real estate and gone broke. You need to be selling every piece of real estate you have except your personal residence, your cat. You're not cash flowing on this. Your million dollar net worth is not paying you enough to justify the expenses that you have. Okay, so, but you've got debt associated with all this net worth, so the net worth is invalid.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, but my, my husband's income isn't.

Enough for us to live off of.

And we need additional.

[Dave Ramsey]

It is if you don't need $15,000 a month to live. Most people don't. That's ridiculous.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Are you catching what we're saying? What's the biggest chunk of the 15? Give us the real numbers.

[Caller or Guest]

I mean, the two mortgages, obviously.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

So what are those two mortgages?

[Caller or Guest]

One is 4601 is 3400.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. So sell them.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

Well, and that's, that's what I'm saying is we did sell a property and we have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but I'm not talking about the property you already sold. I'm talking about the one that's killing you right now. You have houses you can't afford.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay. It's, I mean, it's worth 1.8 million and we have about 200.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wonderful. Killing you.

[Caller or Guest]

And then do what with the money?

[Dave Ramsey]

Buy a paid for house that has no mortgages.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, you've got debt that's so high that it is invalid. That is creating personal consumption debt on real estate. You have two houses, neither one of which are rentals, neither one of which are investment properties. You are consuming $8,000, $9,000 a month in mortgage payments. Am I understanding you correctly?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir. We, I mean, we have a third rent or.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but that. Those properties right there are creating the $15,000 a month nut you want to crack. Correct? Yeah. And you. So you bought houses you can't afford, Honey, that's what we're saying. And so get your dad gum outgo where it fits within your income. And that's called selling these extra houses. You've been living higher on the hog than you can afford or than you can afford now. Anyway.

[Caller or Guest]

This show is brought to you by BetterHelp.

All right.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host Kennedy Coleman Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host. Today Chris is in Wyoming. Hi Chris. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Good.

Yourself?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

I just, I just wanted to give you guys a call. Just I mean kind of guy going through some struggles and with debt and I got fired from my job on Wednesday and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa. So that sucks. What happened?

[Caller or Guest]

They, I, they, they gave me an evaluation and I guess I didn't score high enough and I think they fired me because of my hearing issues because I was, I was born partially deaf and I think that's part of the reason why they fired me because I couldn't understand things. And.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're going to speak directly into your phone. So you got muffled on me there but you had trouble understanding things. What was the job?

[Caller or Guest]

I was working at a casino. I was doing surveillance and they just am kind of looking at cameras and answering phones and I think I just wasn't understanding a lot of stuff that I was being told and they didn't tell me they fired me because of my hearing issues. But I kind of think that's what it was.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Well, does the, and the reason I'm asking this follow up is because this is going to inform maybe some advice we give you going forward. When they went through the evaluation, whether or not they told you that or not, did you agree that you weren't meeting their evaluation points?

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, you're not speaking directly into your phone again, honey. You have to do that. It's muffled.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. So yeah, I do agree that I was, I was having a hard time understanding things that they were the tasks that they were giving me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Okay. And so your biggest crisis is your unemployment?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I'm unemployed and my wife can't work because she's, she got a, she tore her butt, she tore her femur back when she was in the military. And she's using two canes and she hasn't worked for so long. And so it's just. It's been hard to try to take care of her, myself and our three kids. And.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Are you aware of. Are you aware of what kind of work that you can do where the hearing is not going to be that big of an issue?

[Caller or Guest]

Like 15, 20, 15 to 20 plus years. I was doing like physical work, like warehouse type work, because it really didn't involve a whole lot of. I mean, I started to hear things, but it wasn't as bad as, you know, having to like. I wouldn't have to like answer phones or any type of thing like that. And so I've been trying to get back into that again. It's just been. With winter hours coming up, it's just kind of of been more harder to get into that again.

[Dave Ramsey]

How did you lose your hearing?

[Caller or Guest]

I was born with. I was born. It was genetic.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Do you have hearing aids?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I do. I went through the Wyoming workforce and.

[Dave Ramsey]

But they're not working.

[Caller or Guest]

They were working. They've been a big help. But even, even after I got the hearing aids with the casino, I was still having a hard time. So I try to do everything the best I can and I seem to still have a hard time hearing.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Well, the casino is a very noisy place and even with hearing aids, that can be a problem. Well, I'm worried about your location. It seems when you said winter hours that you have limited opportunities due to where you are. Is that what I'm understanding?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I mean, I'm in here in Cheyenne and they usually when winter starts coming up, that's when they kind of, a lot of places, you know, cut back hours and because they're fully staffed and it's harder to get into places and.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Sure. How much money do you need to make? What's the bottom line that would just take care of you guys? Just your basic expenses. What do you need?

[Caller or Guest]

My rent. I mean, it's my rent, my electricity. I mean, I don't have to worry about like gas or anything.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Give me a number. Do you got a number, a monthly number that you need to live?

[Caller or Guest]

In all honesty, I mean, I honestly don't know. Can't really figure out her number. It's usually about like, I think like 3,000amonth. That's usually where all my bills are at because I got two vehicles and then, you know, my kids taking care of the expenses for them too, and food and all that stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have two car payments.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I have two car payments. I have my truck payment, which is $740, and then my car payment's 360.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know what in the world planet you're on that you think you can afford a $700 truck payment.

[Caller or Guest]

When I was working with Walmart, I got fired from them the same year in January.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why did you get fired from Walmart?

[Caller or Guest]

Because of my attendance, because of the wife's medical issues with her leg and then my mental health. I, I was leaving a lot, and I was calling off a lot because my mental health. And I ended up. After I got fired, I ended up.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the nature of your mental health problem? Problem?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, when my daughter was born, she.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're a mental health problem. What's the nature of your mental health problem?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm depressed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And is your wife on military disability?

[Caller or Guest]

No, she, she's been trying to fight with the VA for several years.

[Dave Ramsey]

And are you on anyone, any kind of disability?

[Caller or Guest]

No, I'm not. I tried to get on Social Security and they, they, they denied me because I finally got the job at the casino and they denied me because, yeah, I was making too much. And so I, that would, that would be true.

[Dave Ramsey]

That would be obvious. Yeah. Okay, so what we gotta do is we gotta figure out a career where you can make some basic income. And son, you gotta sell your truck. A $780 truck in this picture that you have painted for the last few minutes is insanity. It's nuts. So you got to get rid of the $780 payment and you guys could go down to one car. For that matter, your wife doesn't work. She's on two canes. I don't think she needs to be driving a lot. So you got. And then you're going to have to pick up work, doing a lot of other stuff until you can land something that's stable. Any good suggestions, Ken?

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Well, the reason I went that direction of what have you done or what kind of work? Is because you're going to have to get back into that space. And what I heard was a lot of limitations. But right now you can't accept limitations. I understand. Depression is real. That's a real thing. I get it. But you're going to have to fight through that because you are the person that this entire household is relying on. So, yeah, manufacturing warehouse work, I'm showing up and I'm going to go back to Walmart and I'm going to say, hey, here's what happened to me. I'm going to power through it. I mean, anything and everything. Right now, two and three jobs, you have got to get enough money that may be seen. Not maybe I'd see a therapist. I'd scrape enough money together where you get some help because a professional can help you with some tools to power through the depression. And it's this is desperation time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry you're facing all this.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

So sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm 100% sure we got to get your income up, and I'm 100% sure you need to sell your truck. And when you do those two things, you create a sustainable situation mathematically. And that gives you the opportunity to work through the emotional struggles that you got. So keep it up, dude. Keep pushing. Keep fighting. You can do it. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 42,000 businesses have future proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one AI cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should, too. Whether your company is earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. NetSuite's real time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's Next, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey it's first free at netsuite.com Ramsey the Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by why refund? You may think no one can help with your defaulted private student loans, but why? Refi is different. They work with borrowers in tough spots without judgment. Check them [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not in all states.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Today's question comes from Carlos in Texas, and he gives us some context from a Newsweek article that I'll read first. And then his question the federal government will accept Venmo payments from citizens who want to help pay off national debt. The treasury has begun accepting Venmo transactions as contributions toward the national debt, which currently stands at $36 trillion. I made it through that, James, without laughing. But now Carlos's question, based on this excerpt, what is your opinion on the new option of being able to voluntarily Venmo the US Government. Government to help pay down the national debt? Well, my opinion is. Comes from one of my favorite movies where Anthony Hopkins plays this old man who's had a stroke. And now it hits. I said it's one of my favorite movie movies. What is that movie where Brad Pitt's in it and he's the old and they're coming for his land. Somebody bail me out. James, what is that movie?

[Dave Ramsey]

Legends of the Fall. Legends of the Fall.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

And they come over and his son comes up to old Anthony Hopkins, who suffered a stroke and he has a chalkboard around his neck. That's how he communicates with his family. And they say, dad, they're offered us land. The government's offering us money for our land. And he says, his mouth is all crooked. And he leans in, he says, screw. That's my answer. That's my answer. Are you kidding me? The government came up with this idea that we're going to Venmo my money when they already taxed me too much. Dave, my blood pressure is unhealthy.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not good for you.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Take the ball away from me.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is bad for you, Ken. I could tell. This is not, you know, your mental health now, Ken.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Dave, I need to take the rest of the show off. My mental health is too fragile right now. I. I've not heard this. Have you heard of this?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, I think it's wonderful because there's always some idiot out there who says that were, you know, everyone should pay their fair share and I would be willing to pay more. Someone always says that when they're talking about tax the rich, right?

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Oh, sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so I always wanted them. You know, we had that argument many years ago here in the state of Tennessee. We ran a governor out of office that tried to bring in a state income tax. And he was confused and the people here didn't want that. So glorious. Anyway, anyway, so, yeah, but there were all these Libby's that were saying, you know, like, oh well, I would pay more. Well, you can just send them a check, you doofus. And so if you want to pay more because you just think that this is the whole thing, such a great operation, then yeah, sign up for Venmo, baby, have at it. But the rest of us who have something akin to common sense would be like, screw ya.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Right. That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

[Dave Ramsey]

You gotta be kidding. Here's the thing. 49% of Americans pay zero.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Federal income tax. Do you know that 51% of us carry the whole thing?

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

That's not helping my blood.

[Dave Ramsey]

Zero federal income tax. Oh. So please don't talk to me about fair share ever again. Yeah, okay, I'll help you with this. So everybody ought to be paying something. Yeah, I don't care if you make $5 and you pay a nickel. I don't care. You ought to be paying a little something. Everybody pays a little something. And, you know, and so we can start arguing about flat tax now. And that would be fair. If I pay 10% of my income and you pay 10% of your income, and I make a lot more, so I pay a lot more. That's fair. The way it is now is not fair. But it's not equitable. But anyway, so, yeah, if you want to pay some more into the government, I think if you're the type of person that believes this is a good idea, I think you should do it.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

You know what? That's actually true. If you're that stupid, then you shouldn't have any money anyway. So go ahead and send it to the same organization that ran up the debt to 36 trillion and steaming towards 40 trillion. It's the most. Most. It's just nonsensical. So, sure. Yeah, you should. Yeah, you should do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, they just did that to just. Just for you and me.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Is that a fake question? Is that just to see if 100% real?

[Dave Ramsey]

But I knew it would be gold.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

With y', all, too. I feel like I need a whole bottle of Pepsid AC Just chewing on him after that question. Yikes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Rochelle is in Texas. Hi, Rochelle. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey, not Rochelle. She chickened out. I'm ahead of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what's the. What's the. What's the chicken husband's name? What's your name?

[Caller or Guest]

The chicken husband's name's Charles.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi, Charles. How are you, man?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm good. And thank you for taking our call to listen to you guys for a long time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you. How can we help, sir?

[Caller or Guest]

So I'm active duty military, and my wife and I will. We're going to be getting transferred out to Hawaii for our next unit. Unit? We're kind of at an impasse right now. We're finished with baby step five, and we're considering buying a house. But as it sits right now with the math that we've done. It seems like buying a house in Hawaii is going to tie up so much of our liquidity. It just seems like it'll do better invested in good growth stock mutual funds. We're hoping to get your opinion on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you for your service. We appreciate you. And the way we coach the military and we coach a lot of folks in the military over the last 30 years is there are some times and when you make a move for two years that you will buy a house, but most of the time you shouldn't. Most of the time you should rent. And here's the math and the reason most markets, most real estate markets on average do not increase enough during the two year period of time that you're there to be able to sell it and make money. You will lose money on the transaction. And most real estate markets move slowly. Now you're moving into Oahu, I assume?

[Caller or Guest]

Yep, that's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so you know, the Wahoo market has a lot of military saturation, a ton of it. And so there's always a good amount of military type housing for sale, which means it's harder to sell it when you get ready to move. Now if you've got the money to play in a non military neighborhood, so to speak, that maybe you could the thing, if it goes up in value fast enough and you can sell it quick enough, those are the two variables. You can make money, then it's okay to buy. But probably in Oahu, you're probably going to be better off renting the transpose that with. We were working, doing some stuff with SEAL team and they're in the San Diego market. Right. San Diego real estate generally is going up very quickly and generally sells very quickly and it's not saturated with military. And so that's a market. Virginia beach is another one. The market you can move into and out of and make money. But if you're going to be stationed in the middle of a Kansas cornfield and it's all military around you because the only thing in the entire area is military, you're always going to have a bunch of military people that moved off and their houses are for sale or for rent and it screws up the market and makes it hard to sell. And so you can end up with 273 days on the market, nine months to get out of the stupid thing and you're going to lose your butt. So I think you're going to, when you investigate Oahu, you're going to figure out that you're going to Lose money if you buy for two years.

[Caller or Guest]

I got it. And also an additional worry that we have is our next unit will almost guaranteed be Kodiak, Alaska. And my pay is going to drop pretty significantly off that Oahu pay. So with the house not being paid off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Which again, we calculated out, I don't think we'll be able to pay it off in time. If it's an $800,000 house, for example.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Caller or Guest]

When we go to Kodiak, we wouldn't be able to make that work. The pay would just be too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. And again, Kodiak is going to be a lot of military in that market. Right, right. Real strong military consideration. And so it's. Yeah. So thank you for your service and. But what I'm going to be doing is piling up money. And when you are stationed in an area that makes that has is a vibrant real estate market that is not saturated with military, you can make money then it's okay to buy. Otherwise I would rent and pile up money for when I retire and then I'm going to from the military and then I'm going to go buy when I hit my 20 year or whatever it is you decide to to walk on it. Again, thank you for your service, Sam. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and you can't get ahead, join one of our free Every Dollar trainings. Jade Warshaw, Rachel Cruz, George Camel. Our Ramsey personalities are doing trainings every week this month. They're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. And we're going to show you how to stick to a budget. Find thousands of dollars of margin using every $$ so you can get out of debt. When you do a budget, you feel like you got a raise. That's what it amounts to. And we're going to show you how that works. Exactly. And you can ask questions during the live Q and A. Sign up for [e-mail] webinar. Brittany is in Huntsville. Hi Brittany. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm good.

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller or Guest]

My husband and I just started Financial Peace University and downloaded Every Dollar and we are struggling with whether or not we should do the snowball. Out of order so right now, other than mortgage, our only Debts are about 22,000 on my vehicle that I drive and about 31,000 on my student loans, which are broken up into seven different loan groups. So the loans would technically be the smaller debts that we should snowball first. But I am pregnant and due in six months.

Months.

My current car won't safely fit two car seats for our toddler and the baby. So like, I feel like I should focus on the car first and was just wondering what you all think on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you owe how much on the car? $32,000. And it won't hold car seats.

[Caller or Guest]

22,002. Yeah, 22.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's it worth?

[Caller or Guest]

It's worth about 22 with trade in value. Kelly Blue book said we could get 24, 25.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Caller or Guest]

About $150,000. I'm currently a stay at home mom, so that's all my husband.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what does your husband drive?

[Caller or Guest]

He has a lease deal through his job. He's an engineer for Toyota. So he's.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does he drive?

[Caller or Guest]

A Tundra truck.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Okay, what year is your RAV4?

[Caller or Guest]

20.

21, I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

So who told you that the RAV4 cannot accommodate two car seats safely?

[Caller or Guest]

So I guess I told me that because our current car seat and our infant car seat for my toddler that we had, we just upgraded his. Neither of those will fit behind the driver's side without touching the seat. And they're supposed to be a 1 to 2 inch gap.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Well, the manufacturer says that you can actually, on the 2019 and later models, you can sit, you can put three car seats in there. So I'm not trying to counterpoint you, but you've created this narrative that's completely false.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Anyway, yeah, I'm fine with selling the Rev. Why don't you just sell it and buy a ten thousand dollar car?

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a van. Buy ten thousand dollars mini van.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that reduces your debt from 22 to 10.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, we. So the thing is like, we just started doing Ramsey Solutions financial planning. So we have $10,000. Like we could.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buy a $10,000 car and sell the rev and you got rid of $22,000 worth of debt. Yay.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay. Okay, perfect.

[Dave Ramsey]

A $10,000 minivan though, not a $30,000.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what I thought we were leaning towards.

[Caller or Guest]

No, no, no. The. So we were just looking at it because we were trying to figure out. We thought we were upside down on the car. Turns out we aren't, which is good.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's awesome. Yeah, just get out of it. And then, then you've. All you got to do is fight through the student loans and you're driving a $10,000 car and you make 150 and you got a baby. This is awesome.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but just fight through the student loans then. But you always use these things as a reason to go backwards. The reason we were all. Ken and I were both dancing over here on the other side of the microphone is 90% of the time that somebody calls with your question. Brittany. They want to move up in car.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

That's what I thought. Exactly what I thought.

[Caller or Guest]

I just want a bigger vehicle. I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't blame you. That little RAV is a tiny little. It's a tiny little. Wishes it was a Jeep car. Yeah. And so, you know, it's. Yeah, I don't blame you. I mean, it's kind of weird thinking about babies in the back of. It's weird in my mind. So I don't mind. Yeah. But, but move down in car and take your ten grand and let's accelerate this whole process over. Okay?

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You get to accomplish both goals in a positive way.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I would do.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

And I'm glad you gave perspective because that's what I thought we were being set up for.

[Dave Ramsey]

I did too. I did too. Most people. That's what most people do. And we're, we have to be careful about. Because everybody that calls us not most people. So.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Hey, listen, full confession. My mom held me in her arms. That's how old I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

So I, I, I don't do well with the. Well, car seats are too big. What is happening?

[Dave Ramsey]

But the RAV is a tiny little.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

I get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I get it's a tiny little.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

I get it.

[Caller or Guest]

I was wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a jeep that needs to add water to. I mean, too small.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

A Chia car.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a Chia car.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

I like that. I like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Grant is in Montana. Hey, Grant. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Great, man. How.

[Caller or Guest]

Can we take my call?

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller or Guest]

So I'm looking for some help or some guidance on whether the balance. Whether taking care of my father is a priority or building a life with my girlfriend, soon to be wife. I started my life over at 25. I got sober, built a career for myself. And about two years ago, I had to move in with my father. He's disabled, not able to take care of his home and property.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old is he?

[Caller or Guest]

68.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is the nature of his disability?

[Caller or Guest]

He's confined to a wheelchair. He has some, some spine issues that.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long has he been.

[Caller or Guest]

Surgery helped about five years now.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've been with him five years?

[Caller or Guest]

No, I've been with him for two years. Two years ago, the HoA sent him a letter I had been mowing the lawn and taking the trash out and doing what I could, but I lived about a half hour away. And so we just made the decision.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you planning to live with him for the next 10 years?

[Caller or Guest]

That was my plan. I was single at the time that I made this decision. And then yeah, girl came along.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now you're not planning to live there for 10 years. So we have to have a plan for dad and a plan for your life. They don't have to. They don't have. Doesn't have to be either or. It should be both. But the plan for dad might not be that you live there. It might be that we figure out some other way that he gets cared for.

[Caller or Guest]

Sure. So what we've done is in preparation for that plan or whatnot. He spent a lot of his retirement. He retired pretty early. He retired when I was about 15. I'm 34 now. So he spent a lot of his retirement. Sort of the big thing he has left is the house. But we took the house and put it in a trust of which I'm the beneficiary now in preparation for, you know, him being moved on to Medicaid at some point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Understand Medicaid is welfare.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you understand that welfare nursing home is a different level of care?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, we're not.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're planning to put him in a Medicaid nursing home so you can keep the house.

[Caller or Guest]

That was not my plan. That was what he wanted to do in case he had to go on Medicaid. Because they have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Like a five year look back period.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure do. They sure do.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the trust doesn't help at all. Like none do the trust but on the five year look back. So it's got to be five years. Has it been five years?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. No, we just put the house into the trust last year. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got four years that you're going to continue this. If you're going to continue this, probably not going to work. I think you're selling the house so that your dad can use his money to care for him so that you can. And he gets, he gets a sustainable situation. He can't live in this house without help and he doesn't have the money for the help and you're not the help anymore.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, that's, that's where I, I struggle.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't. I don't.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. I.

[Dave Ramsey]

No dad. No dad. That is a good man wants his kids. Kid to have no life when he's sitting on a house that the money from the house will take care of him. You're supposed to go on and have a life, young man, and you can take care of your dad. You can set up a situation where your dad is cared for with the equity from this house. Moving into a one level house. A situation where he's got care with the money that's the equity because he's blown his retirement. And then you go on and have a life in the process. These things are not in control. Grueling. EJ's in Philadelphia. Hi, EJ, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm great. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

So my fiance and I are getting married in about a month and we're about to receive $20,000 as a gift. Gift. Not for the wedding, but because we're getting married and we want to know. Yeah, yeah, it really is. And we wanted to know what would be the best direction to or the best place for us to put that money. So just for some context, we just finished school, her last December and me over this past summer and we just started working full time. And the only debt that we have is $18,000 in student loan. And so we're trying to figure out if we should save that money and snowball our debt or move into a better place or whatever. And I just wanted to know what you think would be a good direction for us to go in with that money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, the problem with this is it's when you get a gift like this, in a situation like this, it's $20,000 and it feels emotionally like it's 200,000.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, it's just exciting and wonderful and what a wonderful, generous gift. And then if you want to do something that's non sexy but smart with it, it's hard because it's emotional. And so the answer to what we would teach you at Ramsey to do with any money that you get from any source is to work the baby steps. Why? Because that's the shortest path to wealth and puts you in a position to do anything else you want to do, which is generosity, change your family tree, buy a house, all those kinds of things. And so we're always going to do that. But with a gift like this, it's very hard because this has got such sizzle on it that it's different than, you know, Dave, I got $20,000 in a mutual fund. What do I do with it? That's different than I got a wedding gift and I'm newly married and newly graduated. It just has. That's got a lot of sizzle on it. You see what I'm saying?

[Caller or Guest]

Saying yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it makes it very hard for you to do what I'm going to tell you to do, which is just pay off your student loan, man.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's hard to say Yay. Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Yay. Let's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's a. Yeah, I got it. I'm trying to. I set you up, man, but I mean I'm. I understand the feels on this, but. Yeah. Because the faster you get out of debt, the faster you have control of your most powerful wealth building tool, which is not the 20,000, but is your income.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's your income going to be now, the two of you?

[Caller or Guest]

So I work two jobs and I make around 90,000 a year and my fiance makes around 55,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Those are your postgraduate jobs, right?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, she's in her field that she studied. I, I went to school for ministry and I worked that part time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

I do H Vac and plumbing full time, which I did not go to school for.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's. But that's not unusual. Yeah. 80% of pastors are bivocational in America today, so.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. So the. Alright, so you got $140,000 household income.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're how old?

[Caller or Guest]

I just turned 22.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, see, that's awesome, man. You're killing it. And now you got no debt because of this wonderful gift. It's just, it's just, it's just emotionally hard to do that. But it's the smart thing to do. It is what I would do and it's what I'm going to tell you to do. And if you were my son who was 22, I would tell you to do this. And I'm going to tell you to do this because I love you. But I'm also admitting simultaneously that it absolutely has no system. Sizzle. And it's a sizzle gift with a wah wah, wah suggestion. But the faster you get out of debt, the faster you can build wealth, the faster you'll be able to have a nice family, the faster you'll be able to do all these things. And it just. I'm going to get you there as fast as I can every time. And I'm 1000% consistent on this. Kenneth is in Georgia. Hi Kenneth, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey, doing great. Thanks so much for having me today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

I just discovered the Ramsey plan this past summer and it's really quick with me. I've been enjoying it so far. We are on Baby step two. But my wife and I are thinking about having a second child and I just wanted to make sure that financially this is something we can afford. It's not going to crush us. I'm in a little bit more of a house than I really should be. We're having a mortgage payment of about $4,100 a month, whereas we take home about 12,000. I do have a side gig that brings in about two to four extra thousand a month. So that does help a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that makes that number work. If you do that until your other income goes up, you're going to keep the side gig because otherwise you can't afford the house. You're right. But that's not too bad.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why would you not be able to afford a baby? I don't understand.

[Caller or Guest]

We have just been having repair bill after repair bill with this house. It needs a new roof. It's got foundation issues. We had to replace the entire H Vac. We've got to set up a new drainage unit. And I don't know, maybe I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. Maybe this is an emotional thing, but I'm just worried, can I afford this? Am I going to sink myself?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, I mean, if you got to trade a money pit for a baby, I'd trade for the baby.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, that's pretty easy to call. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's an easy decision. So sell the money pit and go get you something else. If you think. If you don't think the repairs are done. Sometimes these things go in waves though, right? I mean, maybe you just finished your last wave of repairs and you won't have any for a while.

[Caller or Guest]

That would be nice. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know if that's the case. It's emotional.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If it's not. If it's not, you're observing a logical pattern and you're wise to be concerned.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got to decide which one of those it is. Do you think it's over?

[Caller or Guest]

I think that these are one time repairs. I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, there are. Each of the ones you named are, but I mean, is the, is the pattern over or are we in a money pit?

[Caller or Guest]

That's what I'm worried about.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm over.

[Caller or Guest]

It's about 25 years old and we've been in it for about a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you've been through the other mechanicals, the water heater, the dishwashers, all that's new.

[Caller or Guest]

We have replaced the dishwasher. We have not replaced the water heater yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

25 year water heater is done, bud.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, it's going to need it real soon.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So you got some things like that that are aging out that are what we call functional obsolescence in the real estate business. So they're functionally obsolete. And so, you know, that's the age of the house. And that doesn't mean it's a money pit. It just means it's an old house. And so, you know, one of our houses is 13 years old and I'm putting a roof on it this week and I just put a heat and air system in it. So it's same thing. I just. Both of them went at the same time. And so, you know, that's just. It just kind of goes with the calendar is what I'm saying. And so if you think you're facing that, then you may want to buy a newer property that's a little different and a little less expensive maybe. And that is your family plan. Planning.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Yeah. I would have wanted to know, is there an emotional attachment for you and the wife? Doesn't sound like you're too emotionally attached to it, but is she? But I agree. I would take my losses early. I talked to a great real estate pro and do some homework on this house. What needs to be done is. Is what's done already enough to move the house? I mean, I think you need to know all the information that you're dealing with because you're clearly frustrated.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

And I just learned a new phrase. I got to figure out how to use it this week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Functional obsolescence.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

I gotta tell you, that's impressive. I don't know that I could get it out. I gotta practice that one in front of the mirror. It's the obsolescence. That's a tough word. But that's a new one for me. I feel like if I drop that in the right room.

[Dave Ramsey]

Comes out of my real life estate training back in the day. Way back in the day. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

So I thought you could say it comes out of somewhere else.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does that too. But the, but the, the functional obsolescence.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Did I get that right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. All right. I think. Well, I mean, you know, with vehicles, it's planned obsolescence. Right. See, you've heard that.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Now you're showing off.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've heard that. No, I mean, the whole auto industry plans for the car to deteriorate in a certain number of years.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

I feel smarter because I now know about functional obsolescence and planned obsolescence. Not a book that's coming to you anyt soon. But I do like that. I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not a title that would sell.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Yeah, not a good idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're gonna probably back right off of that on the Ramsey personality title list.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Not gonna. Not gonna make the cut.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but the deal is stuff wears out. Hello. That's all it is. That's all it means. It's not a. It's just a John Deloney word that means stuff wears out. That's all it is.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

It's a good Scrabble word.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh yeah? Yeah. If you could spell it.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

I couldn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'd have to look it up. And I think that's illustration, legal and Scrabble. So what do I know? We've all done dumb things with money. I've done them with zeros on the end. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for it. You got to have a plan. You got to be intentional. And you need to get a budget. You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went. Our budgeting app, EveryDollar, helps you do just that. It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan. For every dollar you've got coming in and going out, now's the best time to get started. Before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan. Don't let that happen. You're done making that mistake. Go download every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host today. He's also host of the front row seat show on Ramsey Network which is exploding. If you've not watched this long form interview show. There's a little bit of everybody been on there already. You don't want to miss it. Be sure and check it out. Benjamin is with us in Seattle. Hi Benjamin, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey Dave, how we doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller or Guest]

Love to hear it. I got a question about rolling over my current 401k into a Roth IRA. Even though I'm still employed with the 401k.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't think you can do it. Okay, you can roll it into a Roth 401K inside your company. Does your company have a Roth 401K option?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, it does.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you can move it there, but I don't think you can move a 401k while you're still employed.

[Caller or Guest]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of any kind, traditional Roth, anything. So how much is in it?

[Caller or Guest]

Not much. It's around 30 grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you're going to create about $7,000 in taxes. Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you do that because it's all. You're going to take a non taxed item and make it taxable that year. Do you have an extra 7,000 laying around to pay the taxes?

[Caller or Guest]

The 401K is a Roth 401K.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, you just wanted to roll it out to an individual from the Roth 401K. I thought you were in a traditional 401K. I'm sorry.

[Caller or Guest]

Roth 401K into a Roth IRA.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. Okay. Can't do it while you still work there. I don't think.

[Caller or Guest]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't need to. Unless you get why you just got crummy options or what.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, crummy options. It's a 2% match and so just not getting a lot there. My Roth IRA has probably 40 grand in it. So I was just thinking if I had more. A bigger number in one account, more growth versus, you know, two accounts.

[Dave Ramsey]

No two accounts. Let's pretend that one, that the current individual is returning 10% and your company was returning 10%. It's the exact same thing as if you put them together and they return 10%. A bigger number does not make you more money unless the percentage is different. The percent of return is different. You follow me?

[Caller or Guest]

I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So. And besides that, I don't think you can move it until you leave the company anyway. So I think you're there. And the 2% match is 100% on 2%. That's pretty good. You got 2% before you got started. So yeah. Just be careful and pick out good options. Make sure you're fully funding the individual one. And there we go. That's one of those math things that there's a couple of those that float around in the culture can that are interesting and I don't know. I don't know. A lot of people think that if I put all my accounts together in one big lump sum and I make the exact same interest rate, then I'm going to make more money. You'll make more actual dollars, but you don't make more than the total would have been anyway.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Correct. Because the sum hasn't changed. It's just now consolidated versus the total.

[Dave Ramsey]

Principal that is earning has not changed. It's just in being in one pile. Being in six piles doesn't matter. Right. Assuming the piles are paying exactly the same. For purposes of this math riddle. Yeah. The other one is funny is I don't want to pay off my mortgage because I've already paid all the interest.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's not true. You don't prepay interest at all on an amortization mortgage. A standard mortgage is calculated like simple interest. And we can walk you through that for the fun of it. Okay, you take your annual percentage rate, rate, say 6%, divide it by 12, which would be your monthly percentage rate. So that would be a half a percent per month. And so you're paying a half a percent on that month's outstanding balance. When you look at your amortization schedule and you say, what number of dollars of my monthly payment is going towards interest this month? You're going to find it to be if you have a 6% mortgage, exactly half percent of whatever is outstanding. Right. Right now. Ta da. And that's called a simple interest calculation. But the amortization schedule, because it starts out with the largest possible balance, so more is going to interest on the first payment than ever will again. And every time you pay a payment, more goes to principal, less goes to interest, more goes to principal, less goes to interest every time you pay a payment. And because you pay so much interest on the front end like that, it makes people think they're prepaying interest and they're not.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're only paying exactly what you owe. So there's no disadvantage at any time to pay off a mortgage. No disadvantage mathematically. You only paid what was appropriate. And so if you prepay, if you send them an extra $10,000, it slides you forward in the amortization schedule. So figure out what your principal balance is.290,000 a day. Move over in the amortization schedule, 280,000. And that's what your next payment will look like. Not your next payment, because now you have $10,000 less that that half a percent this month is being multiplied on 280 versus 290 in my example. Okay, and so bunch of math gibberish there, but all of that to say there's this interesting mythology that runs around then people make bad decisions on that. I guess the other one that those don't aggravate me, just I'm a math nerd. But the one that aggravates me is where people just go ahead and transfer their house prior to death. I'm going to just deed this to my kid, so $200,000 house, and I'm just going to give it to him and I'm 60 years old and then I'm going to live in it. Well honey, there's just so much that you don't understand about what you just screwed up. Number one, when you give someone an asset that's $200,000 you just inherit, you just got gift tax. And when you get audited, they're going to tax you at 55% of that gift. The gift tax is horrendous. So you can't just decide I'm just going to give somebody money. You have to go through a few little tax moves in order to do that. You can do it, but you have to file some forms and do it on the unified Estate Tax credit. There's a way to do it, but you also just lost what's called stepped up basis on that. So here me help you with this. Mom and dad bought the house in 19. Oh whatever, right? And so they have almost, they paid almost nothing for it. And so when you get the house as a gift, your basis for calculating capital gains is what their basis was, which is nothing. And so when you sell the house, you're going to pay capital gains on the entire amount because you geniuses deeded it to you before they died. If instead you got it upon death, you get what's called stepped up basis. And that means that when you sell a house within six months of the death of the person that owned the house or a stock, either one, it's presumed that you sold it for market value and your basis is market value, zero taxes. So capital gains tax on $200,000 is 30,000 bucks. So a nice little $200,000 home, you just made a $30,000 error. Try doing it on a million dollar house. Yeah, you just made $150,000 error, not to mention gift tax. If you did it wrong just cause I'm just going to do this to my kids kid cuz I think I don't want the government and you just screwed up the whole stinking thing because you didn't know what you were doing and you didn't get some good advice. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance. Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would find what you [e-mail] insurance. Everybody needs insurance. But it can be hard trying to find the pro who isn't Just looking to make a buck. Agents who know their stuff, they're hard to find. With a Ramsey trusted insurance pro, you'll never have to deal with sleazy business or slimy salespeople. A lot of sleazy, slimy stuff out there because we interview these guys, we vet them, we coach them to make sure they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. Go to ramseysolutions.com coverage to find the type of insurance looking for. Connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or click the link in the show notes. Stephanie's in Orlando. Hi, Stephanie. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hi.

I'm good. How are you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

Good. Well, I've. I'm recently engaged and I'm trying to figure out if I should buy a house before we get married or wait till after.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely not. Please don't.

[Caller or Guest]

I'm trying.

I'm going to beg you not to, not to wait.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, don't buy a house until you're married.

[Caller or Guest]

Don't buy a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, of course I don't want to.

[Caller or Guest]

Buy a house with him. So I'm. But he has some debt. So I'm trying to figure out, should I.

Should we get married to help him.

Pay the debt off and then we buy a house or.

Or should I go ahead and buy.

The house on my own first?

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Do you think Dave's being clear enough? Sometimes he's fuzzy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me stop that. Stephanie. I'm sorry. That's not fair. I need to tell you why. Okay, here's the thing. You're getting ready to join your lives. The best way for you guys to become wealthy is for you to join your lives. Combine everything. Assets, liabilities, incomes. And we together are aligned on our steps and what our future and what the future looks like and the steps to get. Get there. Okay? And when you do that, it's a major plus for your relationship because when you can agree on your spending, you're agreeing on your fears, your dreams, your life. Money's not important, but where it goes speaks loudly. Who you are and what you dream about. And when the two of you combine. And in the old marriage vows, it used to say, richer for poor, sickness in health, health unto thee, all my worldly goods I pledge. And it creates a unity and a joined approach. What ends up happening, and we see it in the actual factual data ten years later, after you're married, is you have what we end up calling in the financial world, the marriage advantage. To where a 35 year old married Couple has a net worth that is far beyond a couple of single people that are 35. Right.

[Caller or Guest]

So even if that means delaying some things.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's just a matter not delaying them much, but it just, we're putting them in an order that might not be comfortable.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we're gonna pay off the debt, we're gonna build an emergency fund, then we're gonna get a big down payment and buy a nice home on a 15 year fix where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take home pay. You're gonna start putting 15% of your income away towards retirement after that, and you're gonna become very, very wealthy in about a decade.

[Caller or Guest]

Yep, exactly.

Because I'm there now on my own.

But seeing that, you know, my plan is to join us, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much do you have in savings? That's not retirement.

[Caller or Guest]

About 50,000 right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much debt does he have?

[Caller or Guest]

He has about 31,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Perfect. When you get back from the honeymoon, pay it off.

[Caller or Guest]

That's kind of what my thought was.

Yeah, because I still want to save.

Some more money for a down payment.

Because even 50,000, not just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, pay off the debt and then you've got a combined household income of what, when you come back from the honeymoon.

[Caller or Guest]

Maybe around 90,000, 95,000 maybe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. And so you're what, 25, 26.

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, I am 37.

[Dave Ramsey]

37. Okay. All right. What do you all do for a living?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm a production planner in manufacturing.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's he do?

[Caller or Guest]

He's in shipping receiving for manufacturing as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool, cool. All right, perfect. So you are a planner. That's why you, that's why you're lining up on all this immediately. The way your mind works. Numbers written down, that's the way your mind works.

[Caller or Guest]

And so I've been listening to you.

Guys for five years now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, you know, you know the baby steps then, and I'm just walking you through them as a combined couple. We're going to take your 50, pay off his 30, that leaves 20. Now we've got a $90,000 household income. The 20 is probably your emergency fund. So we start from scratch real quick, build our, build our down payment, then we buy a home. Meanwhile, or shortly after buying a home, One of the two, we start Baby Step 3B or 4. 15% of your income going into retirement. You've heard all this before, hadn't you?

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, yeah, plenty of times. Actually, I didn't include my emergency fund in that. I have a three month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then you got a 20 head start, not a 50 head start towards your down payment. Good.

[Caller or Guest]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If your emergency fund's big enough for our emergency fund, that is.

[Caller or Guest]

Not yet. I don't think with what I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

A new mortgage will be okay. Well then yeah, we'll get there. But I mean that. You see, you know exactly what to do. It's just a matter of when, what and why. But no, we don't try to. Don't, don't look for a hack. Just go straight through it.

[Caller or Guest]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the fastest way. It's just, it's just not popular. It's not. It's not cool. Your friends are going to go, what? Who gives a crap what you think? You don't have any money and you don't. And you're not living in my house. So, I mean, where, you know, I don't. You know, these are not real friends. Real friends. Go.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're so smart. You're wise beyond your years. Go do the smart stuff. Yeah, that, that's, that's very cool. Congratulations. Hey, I'm gonna send you a copy of the total money makeover. The baby steps. You already know them, but I'm gonna send it to you anyways as a wedding gift. Very cool. That's fun.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Yeah, I like the, I like how wary she is, you know, not jumping in emotionally. Very solid. And I'd love to know what she has in retirement. We didn't get to that, but I think that they're going to be in the other thing. I would say we didn't get to this, but for people that are listening, watching this in a situation like this, and I'm sure she's done this, you want to make sure that this person is, is on board with you before you get married on the finances. It's not something you want to come in. And in this case, I'm not saying this is happening here, but you want to be careful not to come in. We combine finances. I'm going to pay all this debt off. And they go, woo hoo. And then they go get more debt. Super important that you got this stuff figured out pre marriage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen. Loretta' in Texas. Hi, Loretta, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm just fine.

How are you doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I am 64 years old and.

I'm so ready to retire, but I'm just worried about my finances.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

I have $808,000 in an emergency fund. I have 12,000 in 401k. I have 15,000 in savings my home is paid off, my vehicle is paid off, and I have no other debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what will you live on if you retire?

[Caller or Guest]

Social Security?

Well, I mean, I can't.

I can't just retire. I'm probably going to work the rest of my life. But the job that I have now, I am a. A truck driver. I do super loads. And so, you know, it's physically demanding.

It's a lot of work.

But, you know, at some point, you know, I want to be home.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller or Guest]

110,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Why have you not saved in.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I mean, because I paid off debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so your debt's gone now.

[Caller or Guest]

My debt is gone now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much longer do you want to work and pile up some cash? I mean, why don't you try living on nothing and let's put $100,000 away in the next two years? Years. 50 a year. 50 a year. Well, you don't have any payments. You're on the road.

[Caller or Guest]

Because I don't have. I can actually put even.

You know, probably put even more than that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller or Guest]

Because it's just me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller or Guest]

You know, with everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, let's not retire on social insecurity.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, so hang in there another couple of years.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much. How much could you put away out of 120? 10. If you go. If you go whole hog. You just go all in, girl.

[Caller or Guest]

75.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's 150 in two years, right?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Now that makes you 66 years old. And if you then will set your budget up with no debt to live on your Social Security, if you invest that with a Smartvestor pro and some good mutual funds, it will double every seven years. So at 73, you'll have 300,000 if you don't touch it and live on the Social Security. Now you're building a nest egg.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's where I want you to go. This idea of 12,000 bucks and I'm ready to retire. I don't want. I don't want to live on Social Security. It's not enough. I've been working too hard all these years. You have for sure, kiddo.

[Caller or Guest]

Foreign.

Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication, and More this weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th. And early bird prices start at $749 per couple. But the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets [e-mail] event.

[Dave Ramsey]

Jake's in Minnesota. Hi, Jake, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey there. Thanks for taking the call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller or Guest]

I was just calling to ask me. My wife are trying to figure out if we should work on paying down our current mortgage, which we secured at 2.75% or if we should be working on saving up our savings to get into a bigger home down the road.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pay off your mortgage as fast as you can.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just as fast as you can.

[Caller or Guest]

Go at it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, just go at it now. I mean, you need to be working what we call the baby steps. Have you heard us talk about those?

[Caller or Guest]

Yep, I'm familiar.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. The. And so are you out of debt. Everything but the home.

[Caller or Guest]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're putting 15% of your income into retirement plans.

[Caller or Guest]

That is something that we've backed down a little bit on recently. My wife and I, we don't have great matching from our employers.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. You need to be putting 15% of your income income away for retirement and good growth stock mutual funds. That's going to build wealth for you. And then beyond that, any money we can find in the budget that we want to throw at the house. Let's just start paying the house off systematically. And those are the things that the people that become millionaires the fastest do they steadily invest in their 401ks and they pay off their homes data after data after data. We got 10,000 of them. We interviewed. We know.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay. Yeah, we're. I think we're pretty close to the point where we're almost ready to take the jump on the new home, which is what we've been trying to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, then it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You're just going to sell this house and equity is going to come out of it anyway.

[Caller or Guest]

Fair. I think we're just trying to make sure that if the right house comes along that we have enough liquid that we don't have to make a contingent offer. Would that ever make a difference?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you have to make a contingent offer because you have to sell the house. You can't. You can't take on two mortgages.

[Caller or Guest]

I think there might be a little room for us to own both for a few months, but. Yeah, correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't turn yourself into a motivated seller. Thing doesn't sell for six months and you're paying payments on it. You're going to give the stupid thing away. You don't do that.

[Caller or Guest]

No point. We are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Calm down. Go take a cold shower. You're getting house fever.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, the.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've been out looking at the weekends at the open houses, hadn't you? Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

We'Ve been. We've been working on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you've been working on it.

[Caller or Guest]

It's working on you too, dude. Yeah, we're expecting in March, and we've just been kind of looking at their current home situation and trying to figure out how we can make that next step happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ye.

[Caller or Guest]

Um.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's okay to calm down and come go after the baby. I. As a husband and grandpa, I won't recommend you plan a move during a pregnancy. You're not going to be a popular dude 10 years later, she'll still bring that up to you. That time that you moved me while I was nine months pregnant. Yeah. She'll remember that for the rest of her life. She won't forget.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

And I got to speak on behalf of all babies. They have no idea how big the house is. A lot of this is just very natural.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're a baby advocate.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Yeah, I am. I am. It's the first time I've taken advocate for babies.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm here to speak on behalf of.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

The man or the people. You know, Dave, I really. No, I. I just hear this a lot from young couples. And by the way, it's very normal, and I'm not in any way judging it, but we start to think, well, this is what the nest should look like, and this is what the nest should feel like. And in all reality, can get you in real trouble. And the scenario that Dave gave you, we get that call a lot where people. They thought it was going to work out, and then life has got a different idea, and then you're st. As opposed to being patient here. And the baby's gonna be fine. You don't need the perfect nursery and all the things. It just doesn't matter. You're gonna be so exhausted, you don't even want to think about all this. So I think Dave's right. Patience, patience, patience.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And definitely contingency.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

That or sell the house and move into an apartment while you're looking so you don't have. You ain't gonna do that.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Two moves. That'll get you in real hot water.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's great. Gross. Yeah. It could happen. But, yeah, yeah, no, because here's the thing, honestly. You start talking about 279 on one side of the fence, like, this is a bargain, okay? Like, you got. I got this cheap interest rate after the 11th month, and the house hasn't sold, that cheap interest rate is going to look like it's 27%, not 2.7. And you're going to be going, oh, God. I'm just. This is killing me. We got to get this house move. You're going to be calling a realtor every day. You're going to be dropping the price. Dropping the price, dropping the price. Then somebody's going to come in and lowball you, and you're going to take it. Do not get yourself in that position. And so it's easy. Do a contingency deal or don't do it. And so, like, I had one guy, he said, well, God told me to do it. And I said, no, he didn't. Yeah, he did. No, he didn't. I'm positive God didn't tell. I did not tell you to do that. He said, how do you know? Because the Bible says the blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them. And there is sorrow added to your mess. You create it here, and then you're trying to blame it on God. And God's up there laughing, going, you're just one of my stupid children, you know? And he's got a bunch of stupid children because I've been one of them.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Me, too. But that's not fair, Dave. You used God's word to debate God's voice. That's not fair. You were not playing fair. That's such a pro move, by the way. That's. That's a good. That's a flex.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a flex. Yeah. All right. Allen's in Georgia. Hey, Alan, what's up?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey.

How you doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better not deserve. How can I help?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, sir. So I. I've inherited some land from whenever my mom passed away, and she's kind of been sitting there not making any money, and I think it's probably time to sell.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much? What's it gonna bring?

[Caller or Guest]

Conservative. 350 to 500.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Wow. Nice inheritance. Very nice.

[Caller or Guest]

64 acres.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks, Mom. Wow.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what are. What are you going to do with a 400, 500 grand?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I kind of wanted to get into real estate. I've been doing some research on, like, beach condos and kind of looking at the. I think their return on investment is hovering from 8 to 10%. And. And kind of wanted your opinion on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where do you live in Georgia?

[Caller or Guest]

Albany. But it's in Leesburg.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

The land.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the reason I asked is resort real estate. Mountains, beaches, lakes is the most volatile type of real estate. It's the first thing that goes up when times are good and the first thing that goes down when times are. Are bad. And that includes the rental income on it. So if you have some kind of a problem and the economy slows down, you're going to be the first one to take it on the chin. The value goes down and the rentals are hard to keep booked. So I don't recommend resort real estate as an investment. If you want to buy a toy for your family to go stay in at the beach, that's a different discretion discussion. You pay cash for toys, but that's not. That's not what you said. So instead I would buy a boring rental property that's steady and it's probably close to you or two or three if you. I'd rather you buy two or three $200,000 $150,000 houses in your area there. And they'll go up more steadily than those beach condos will. They won't go up as much during good times, but they won't go down as as much during bad times. And you create this tortoise versus the Hare type of investment portfolio.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

I've got a question for you on this. 8% was his goal. He stated it on the call. Why wouldn't you say. Just put that in our. Our investment. Our four. Our four pockets that we talk about. Why not invest it in the market? Why even take on the headache of real estate?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, 8% is cash on cash. Got it. That's how much he makes in his pocket. Right. Versus what he invested. Okay. That doesn't count how much it goes up in value every year.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it doesn't count that he can also shelter a portion of it by doing depreciation. So those three numbers added together on an 8% are going to sound more like 17%.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Got. Great. And then it makes it worthwhile. I look for 8 to 10 on a residential. If I'm buying it.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

On commercial, I look for 10 to 12. Okay. Cash on cash. But I fully expect to return about 20 on a 12, including. It's called an internal rate of return, which includes the increase in value and the write off of the depreciation schedule. All right. Our scripture of the day, James 4. 3. When you ask, you do not receive because you ask with renewal motives. That you may spend what you get on pleasures. Our friend Art Laffer said it's not true that Congress spends money like a drunken sailor. Drunken sailors spend their own money, Congress spends ours. Fact, fact, Art, you can tell Art used to hang out with Ronald Reagan a lot. That's a great line right there. That's fabulous. All right, here we go with Gerard in Texas. Hey, Gerard. Doug. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm better than I deserved, Dave. How are y'? All?

[Dave Ramsey]

The same, sir. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

So my wife and I are on baby step two. We should be done with about 40,000 worth of debt by the end of the year, and we're going to be moving on to 4, 5, and 6. Already kind of have plans for retirement and early payoff of the house, but I'm confused a little bit on the college savings side of things.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. How old are you? Your babies?

[Caller or Guest]

Four and seven.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesomeness. Okay, what are you confused about?

[Caller or Guest]

So I looked at the Dave Ramsey calculator on how to save for college and what we would be putting aside just based on what we think living expenses are and tuition will be. That number seemed high, around like 1100 bucks a month or something like that. I didn't know if that was normal to set that much aside in a 529 or.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not. I would not do that.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay. Okay. What would you all recommend as far as how to. How to tackle the tuition versus living costs?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I honestly. I need to go look at that calculator. Sounds like. So tuition has averaged 7 to 8% per year inflation rate.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

For the last 40 years or so. And so it's, you know, Regular inflation is 2 to 4, 4% average. I mean, one year. Biden, we had 9.7, but I mean, the normal inflation rate is 2, 2 to 7 or 2 to 4. And then with this. So that's what it's going up. So you got a. You know, University of Texas is probably 14,000 right now in state tuition. And so if you wanted to say, okay, four years of. That is 60,000 bucks. Right?

[Caller or Guest]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And then add 8% a year for a decade. And that's. That's where that. That's going to be your tuition cost. Right. And so that. That's what you would do. And then, yeah, we use a 529, because if you put in, you know, a couple grand or something a year, not a month but a year, you're gonna have about 90 or 100. You probably have about 140,000 bucks in there. Something like that if you started with the back babies. And so you'll have somewhere around 100, 150,000 in there. And a lot of that is growth. And if it's in a 529 in a mutual fund, mutual fund in a 529, it's going to grow tax free for tuition. And so if you have $100,000 worth of growth, see, if you put it, okay, let's say you put in $2,000 a year for 10 years, that's 20,000 bucks you put in. If there's 120 in there, there's 100 in growth you make. Got me. No taxes on that hundred is important because that's a $20,000 tax bill, $30,000 tax bill that you're avoiding by putting the mutual fund in a 529 for purposes of the kid.

[Caller or Guest]

That makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, a couple grand a year is going to take you a long, long way towards doing this. And the other thing that we would not have said 10 years ago that we will say today is I think higher education is going to look dramatically different, different 15 years from now. Wouldn't you, Ken?

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

I've been pretty bold on that and I, I believe you're going to see a decentralization. You're going to see specialties like obviously medicine, law, look very similar to how we see them today. But as far as the traditional four years and you got to take a bunch of undergrad stuff and you got the prerequisites before you get to the major, I think that's going to splinter. I think the onset of AI, I think that we are actually at a, I think a fever pitch on what the American people are willing to put up with. And I think when you see on.

[Dave Ramsey]

The rip off of meaning willing to.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Pay for it, give you real numbers. So you know where I'm coming from. Gerard Gallup came out with information this year. In a poll, 46% of American parents said they would prefer that their kids go into trades and not into college. Our good friend Mike Rowe, I call him the Oprah Winfrey of the trades. He's been banging this drum for a long time.

[Dave Ramsey]

You only like that as an insult.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

But I do think Dave's right. I don't think you're going to see the exorbitant costs. I don't think now you got to plan for it, but I don't think you're going to see that. I think we've kind of jumped a shark.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the student change, student loan debacle has, it's has highlighted that some of the higher ed stuff is out of control. Yeah. And so it's nice. I do know that people are going to be more cognizant of what they pay and what they get for what they pay.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

For sure. And I think that's going to create a downward pressure on that inflation number that I gave you of 7 to 8%. So I don't think they're going to maintain that.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

I think you're going to see. Dave, a little quick prediction. I think I've been studying this. I think you're going to see private sector competition for traditional education. I think people are going to come along, wait a second. We can provide training for what corporate America really wants for a whole lot less money and make a ton of money doing it. And you're going to see these outsized tuitions go away because they can't compete with the private sector. Google's doing their own training program, six month program. I think you're going to see more and more big time companies are going to outsource their own education training to private education companies. Watch for that. I think that's going to happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

All of that to say that if you have have put a couple grand a year for a four year old and a six year old you're going to have 100,000 plus in there when you get there each and that's going to give you a real head start into whatever you want to do. Whether it's a trade, a certification program or an actual four year degree which we're not against four year degrees, we're just against getting a degree for four years in left handed puppeteer and from a school where you pay 150,000 bucks a year to go so they can brainwash your child into being a communist. And so I'm against that. I think that's a problem. And so, and as a parent or a grandparent, I'm not writing that freaking check anymore and I'm not by myself. So that's what we're seeing. So I think you're, you know, you're doing your individual planning but you're doing it in the context of what is happening culturally right now on this subject. That's why we wanted to comment on it. So it's very good. And Ken, I think it's worth highlighting a couple things here while we're at it. You've been working with self improvement in the self improvement space and the new show Front Row Seat is helping people learn leadership skills and highlighting stories of great men and great women and what they did to get there and what we discover every time we do that. If you read biographies of God, great people who are successful in any function, whether business, ministry, sports, whatever, you find that they were the secret sauce, not where they went to school.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

That's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so the number of times that people become successful due to the particular school that they went to is precisely successful. Zero. And yet we go, well, if he went to Harvard, bull crap. Nobody cares out here is the problem. It's all theory. There's no data to back it up. 78% of the Fortune 500 companies are have a CEO that went to a state school. Yep. And that's 8 out of 10. Shut up.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

Had a 2.5.

[Dave Ramsey]

They didn't go to Wharton. They didn't go to Princeton. They didn't go to, you know, muckety muck school. They went to a state freaking school. Penn State, Michigan State. That's right. University of Tennessee. That's where they went to school. They didn't go to Vanderbilt. They didn't. The 78% of the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies. Not straight into data for you. Okay, so where you go to school doesn't matter. It's a big deal.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

It's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it costs out the butt to go to those places.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

And we're beginning to see the American people. And this isn't just parents anymore. The young people are going. They're reading the stories. They're paying attention. They're older brothers and sisters. They're going. There's not a value exchange here.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. I can't spend $250,000 to become a social worker for the state of Tennessee with a master's degree and make $38,000 a year. That's dumb.

[Ken Coleman Ramsey]

But that's right. The ROI is not there anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just doesn't work. So you guys got to think about stuff like that. And Gerard, you're very wise to stay on top of the whole idea and be watching and monitoring all this as you go. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Caller or Guest]

J.