Don’t Let Self-Limitations Keep You From Building Wealth

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Don’t Let Self-Limitations Keep You From Building Wealth"

Release Date: May 1, 2025

Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: Dr. John DeLoney, Ph.D. in Counseling

---

1. Navigating Divorce and Financial Turmoil

Caller: Christie from Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Timestamp: [01:00 – 04:44]

Overview: Christie shares her distressing situation as her husband threatens to file for divorce after accruing significant credit card debt. With six children and a 20-year marriage, she seeks guidance on financial preparation and legal rights.

Key Points:

• Debt Accumulation: Christie's husband refinanced their home to pay off existing debt but subsequently drove up their credit card debt to almost $60,000.

  “He confessed to me that he had been using credit cards and drove up some debt.” [01:29]

• Impact on Family: With children ranging from 4 to 18, and one child starting college, the family's financial strain is palpable. Christie is now a preschool teacher to stay home with her youngest child while preparing for potential divorce.

• Legal and Financial Advice: Dave advises meeting with an attorney to understand her legal rights, emphasizing that alimony and child support will significantly reduce her husband's income.

  “In most states with six children and a 20-year marriage, he's not going to have much of that $117k left by the time he finishes with alimony and child support.” [04:18]

• Emotional Support: Dave underscores the importance of taking legal steps to secure her and her children's future, recommending marriage counseling as a potential avenue if reconciliation is possible.

  “This guy is playing. Weird stuff going on here. Yeah. Yeah. That's sad. I'm so sorry you're facing.” [08:05]

---

2. Advising on Real Estate Investments for a Young Adult

Caller: Suzanne from Denver
Timestamp: [10:43 – 17:42]

Overview: Suzanne seeks advice on investing a $650,000 settlement from her daughter's car accident. She contemplates purchasing a rental property to support her daughter's ongoing medical expenses and future education.

Key Points:

• Investment Concerns: Suzanne considers buying a rental property but is wary of the responsibilities and potential costs involved, especially given her daughter's health issues.

  “I would not buy a rental property for a 19-year-old that has diminished capacity due to a car wreck that gave her $650k. No, I would not.” [12:35]

• Alternative Strategies: Dave recommends conservative investment options like mutual funds through SmartVestor Pro, emphasizing the importance of stability over high-risk ventures.

  “I would just park that money with a SmartVestor Pro in some good mutual funds where you're making more than high yield savings.” [14:41]

• Managing Expectations: He advises focusing on helping his daughter recover and complete her education without the added stress of managing real estate.

  “You need to make your life very, very uncomplicated. Let her life be very uncomplicated.” [15:43]

---

3. Starting a Part-Time Business Amid Financial Uncertainty

Caller: Brent from Raleigh
Timestamp: [28:10 – 33:05]

Overview: Brent, a full-time firefighter earning $60,000 annually, plans to start a part-time excavating business. He seeks advice on purchasing equipment outright versus financing.

Key Points:

• Business Feasibility: Brent seeks guidance on whether to buy equipment with his savings or finance it to retain liquidity for unforeseen expenses.

  “Would it be smart for me to buy this equipment straight out with cash? Would it be smart for me to find next part of it so I can have some leftover in case the equipment breakdown or truck breakdown?” [28:37]

• Dave’s Advice: He discourages investing in expensive equipment without a solid return on investment, suggesting that renting might be a safer initial step.

  “I don't want to do a side hustle that I break even on in one year. If I'm going to do a side hustle, I need to break even on it in two months.” [29:45]

• Alternative Recommendations: Encourages exploring less capital-intensive side hustles and building confidence through successful, smaller-scale ventures.

  “You can use your effort doing something else now. I think renting one is the answer. Probably not, unless you lined up five jobs in a week.” [30:43]

---

4. Balancing Work, Family, and Financial Stability

Caller: Lauren from Pennsylvania
Timestamp: [34:54 – 39:23]

Overview: Lauren and her husband are diligently following Baby Step Four, focusing on savings and debt reduction. However, their intensive work schedules are straining their marriage, with limited quality time together.

Key Points:

• Work-Life Balance: Despite financial progress, Lauren feels her husband's obsession with work is jeopardizing their relationship.

  “We seldom see each other and our children rarely see us together.” [35:32]

• Sustainable Practices: Dave emphasizes the shift from intensity to intentionality once Baby Step Four is achieved, advocating for a sustainable work rhythm to preserve marital relationships.

  “You need to normalize and create a sustainable work rhythm. This is not sustainable and it wasn't designed to be sustainable.” [36:01]

• Communication and Goals: Encourages open dialogue about shared visions for their marriage and family life, ensuring both partners align on their future aspirations.

  “You need to sit down and have that conversation.” [37:05]

---

5. Assisting Aging Parents with Retirement Finances

Caller: Kevin from Sacramento
Timestamp: [38:37 – 43:23]

Overview: Kevin, in Baby Step Five, is concerned about his parents' retirement finances. Their home is valued at $600,000, but they face financial challenges despite owning their house outright and having a pension and Social Security.

Key Points:

• Evaluating Needs: Kevin worries about whether he should take an active role in supporting his parents' retirement.

  “Should I go towards Baby Step Six or take a much more active role in my parents' retirement?” [39:23]

• Dave’s Guidance: Advises against financially overextending himself. Instead, he suggests coaching his parents to live within their means and potentially downsizing their home or finding additional income streams.

  “I think you need to coach them on how they take the money that and the opportunities they have to make themselves a sustainable life.” [41:15]

• Sustainable Solutions: Recommends practical steps such as selling high-value assets, seeking remote work opportunities for his mother, and utilizing his father's skills for additional income without jeopardizing his own financial stability.

  “They need to reconfigure their life to live within the income they can create and have coming in.” [42:13]

---

6. Overcoming Financial Struggles and Self-Limitations

Caller: Grant from Philadelphia
Timestamp: [66:50 – 77:06]

Overview: Grant grapples with mental health issues and familial financial instability. Struggling with past financial mistakes, he seeks advice on breaking self-limitations to achieve financial stability and personal growth.

Key Points:

• Mental Health and Finances: Grant discloses his battle with anxiety, inherited financial mistakes, and the impact of his mother's passing on his financial decisions.

  “My mother passed away in 2017. When that happened, I received an inheritance, and I just was not smart with it.” [67:08]

• Dave’s Encouragement: Emphasizes personal accountability and the power of making conscious decisions to change one's financial path, regardless of past mistakes or inherited challenges.

  “You get to choose what happens next. You are not destined to follow in their tracks.” [73:38]

• Actionable Steps: Advises Grant to achieve quick wins to build confidence, such as setting up a budget with the EveryDollar app, eliminating unnecessary expenses, and focusing on achievable financial goals.

  “Get some quick wins. Get some wins that make you feel good, that make you say, I did this, I accomplished something.” [73:01]

• Breaking Negative Patterns: Stresses the importance of changing habits and seeking professional help if needed, highlighting that continued repetition of detrimental behaviors leads to further financial and personal setbacks.

  “Continuing to do the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.” [74:18]

---

Conclusion: Empowering Listeners to Overcome Financial Challenges

Throughout the episode, Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney address various financial struggles faced by listeners, offering actionable advice grounded in the principles of budgeting, debt elimination, and sustainable financial planning. The overarching theme emphasizes the importance of taking control of one’s finances, seeking professional guidance when necessary, and overcoming self-imposed limitations to build wealth and secure a stable future.

Notable Quotes:

• “You get to choose not to do the stupid stuff that caused bankruptcy.” – Dave Ramsey [73:38]
• “Breaking the cycle requires conscious decisions and sustainable habits.” – Dave Ramsey [36:17]

Final Takeaway: No matter the financial obstacles or personal challenges, listeners are encouraged to take proactive steps toward financial freedom by adhering to structured financial plans, fostering open communication in personal relationships, and making informed, deliberate choices that align with their long-term goals.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show. Where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John DeLoney Ramsey Ramsey personality, number one best selling author, PhD in counseling and host of the very popular Ramsey network show, the Dr. John DeLoney Show. He's my co host today. Open phones at triple eight eight two five, five two two five. Christie's in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hi Christy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. What's up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hi Dave. How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I am hanging in there, holding on to God promises.

[Dave Ramsey]

I hear you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

My husband, we have six children together. We've been married for almost 20 years and he wants to file for a divorce this summer. I've been a stay at home mom for 14 years. I've had a little bit of part time income, what works with our kids schedule, but essentially everything's valued under him, so to speak. Just trying to figure out how to financially prepare myself for everything coming ahead.

[Dave Ramsey]

Holy moly.

[Caller]

What happened, Christie?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Honestly, I really don't know. Back in 2010 when we had our third child, we actually used to teach FPU and paid off all our debt. Things were going really well, had three more kids. And then in 2020, my husband, when we refinanced our house, confessed to me that he had been using credit cards and drove up some debt. So we took out a little extra money on our home loan to pay off those. He promised me he was going to cancel all those and they were going to be done. And then earlier this year I found out again he had driven up almost $60,000 in credit card debt. So we took out a second mortgage against the house to pay for all that because as you can imagine, all the credit card fees was hundreds and hundreds to $1,000 a month, not to mention its balances. And then he kind of things went downhill really quickly after that. So yeah, it's been a very difficult year. Our oldest started college this year. We've got kids from 18 all the way down to 4 years old. The 4 year old is in my preschool class. Currently I'm a preschool teacher to try to make money because I can have my son with me. So yeah, life's a little chaos. I just want to try to be prepared. I just found out that he hasn't been paying my life insurance so I'm going to need to get a new life insurance policy as well. Just kind of everything's up on end.

[Caller]

When you say he's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Appreciate your advice.

[Caller]

When you say he's filing for divorce this summer. Is he still living with y'all?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

You don't get to make that. Like, that's like pulling a pin on a grenade and rolling it in the living room and saying that's gonna blow up sometime. Like, you don't get to do that. Like, because you're, you're, you're deadman walking. There's gonna be a cancer in your house.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he's not saying you don't get to do it. He's saying your husband.

[Caller]

Yeah, he didn't get to do that. If you're divorcing me, then you're out. Because here's the thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Marriage back in the fall and stuff. And I wasn't allowed to talk to him anymore. And he quit sleeping in our room and started hiding in other parts of the house. And I'm not allowed to know where he's at. And we don't communicate about the kid that's gotten.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's not allowed to live there anymore.

[Caller]

Yeah, he's out because now he's. Now he's a man who has said, I don't want to be in a relationship with you anymore, spiritually, romantically, or legally.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if your spirit leaves, you should take your body with you.

[Caller]

Yeah. Now he's a man that is causing havoc in the lives of your kids and with you. You can't have your cake and eat it too, on this one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I don't know what to do about it, though.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what, have you contacted an attorney yet?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm meeting with one on Monday to figure out what some of my legal rights are.

[Caller]

Good for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what does your husband. What does your husband make a year?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He makes. I think it was 117 on our last tax return.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so your, your legal rights in most states with six children and a 20 year marriage are. He's not going to have much of that 117 left by the time he finishes with alimony and child support, it's almost all going to go to you and the kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What if he pushes? I was a 50.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's the law, honey. It's not. He didn't get to push his opinion. Doesn't matter.

[Caller]

Dave, tell me if I'm wrong. I think 50. 50 is about assets.

[Dave Ramsey]

50 50's assets. But I'm not talking about his. I'm talking about his income. The amount that a judge in most states will give you on a 20 year marriage on alimony plus six children worth of child support, percentage wise, is going to take those two things together, are going to take up a lot of that 117. And it's going to go to you to take care of the kids. So you're not going to have to take care of the kids and feed them and pay the house payment on a part time daycare salary. And you can get your, and you can get your life insurance. And by the way, he can go ahead and start paying that now when he moves out next week, after you meet with your lawyer, your lawyer can explain to him that that's what his stuff is going to be. And so he can start paying that. Now, in most states, the judge will require that. I'm not an attorney and I have no idea how you do things in South Dakota, but in most states that's a general law, the way things flow. Okay. And so I'm always amazed that guys think they're going to just walk away and take all of their income and they have six kids left back there.

[Caller]

Well, they imagine.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's like, like I'm gonna, I'll be sure and send you five dollars. Huh?

[Caller]

Well, and it's like, Christy, I want you to ask your attorney this one important multiple questions, whatever you have, but make sure you ask this question. I'm hearing this happen more and more and more where somebody says, I want to divorce you, but depending on what state you're in, whoever files, quote, unquote, looks like the bad guy. So I, I'm wondering here if he's trying to force you into filing because he thinks somehow that's going to help him financially on the back end. Or he can go to a judge and be like, I don't know, man, she just, she just filed on me here. Just pour on me. So ask your attorney if it matters.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who files the paperwork in most states regarding child support and alimony. Won't matter.

[Caller]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

It won't matter. Now, on some other things that we're arguing about, maybe, okay, a judge might step in and have some leeway, but it's a matter of law. It's not a matter of the judge's whimsical decision.

[Caller]

But, Dave, I cannot tell you how often I'm hearing this now where somebody doesn't want to, that they, I want out of the marriage.

[Dave Ramsey]

And most of the time they don't want to be the bad guy spiritually before God. I'm not the one that filed, although I caused the thing.

[Caller]

I caused the thing. I left you I just. I caused chaos in your house and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Finances, but abandoned you with six children.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

After running up credit cards three different times. Deceptively. This guy's a real treat. Yeah.

[Caller]

And you, dude, you just said it. It's so important. People think when they, like, they're in a tough spot in their marriage. Everybody gets in those moments. Or there's a bunch of kids running around, you're exhausted, work's crazy. The, the government's all this stuff. And you think if I could just extract myself from this situation and plant myself somewhere else, ah, all this would go away. I want to get a divorce. And Dave, you called it out. It's important to note that's just not how divorce works. When you extract yourself and you just plant yourself somebody somewhere else, man, it comes with so many other strings and payments and connections and there's juggling kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Schedules, so many things that the law is going to dictate to even without Christie wanting it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

The law is still going to make him do certain things in most states. Again, not an expert. I'm not an attorney and I don't practice law in South Dakota. You need to talk to somebody that does on Monday. And then you need to start taking a position of strength on this. This guy is playing. Weird stuff going on here. Yeah. Yeah. That's sad. I'm so sorry you're facing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's be honest. Shopping for health insurance can be confusing with high costs, complicated terms and customer service that doesn't really serve you. Most folks just pick a plan and hope for the best. See, insurance companies don't work for you. They work for themselves. Meaning they love it when you overpay. So you need a guide on your team to help you make the best choices. Health Trust Financial works for you. They're not salespeople. They help you find the health insurance option that makes sense and saves you money. The fact is, health insurance is one of the biggest expenses in your budget. But most people who work with Health Trust Financial end up saving $500 a month. Imagine putting that kind of money toward the baby steps. My team has worked with them for over 20 years and they've served thousands of people just like you. They're the only health insurance broker that's Ramsey trusted to help you. So stop throwing money away and get the health insurance that's right for you at health trust financial.com that's health trust financial.com Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality is my co host. Suzanne is in Denver. Hey Suzanne, how are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can't Believe I'm talking to you, Dave. I'm great. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, my kids have been saying that since they were tiny, which is what I'm calling about. So I live in Denver and with my husband and our two daughters. Our younger daughter Mary, who always used to say better than you. She got it wrong. I'd say what does Dave say? But anyway, she's 19 right now. Three years ago she was in a catastrophic car accident and she's okay, but she's got ongoing lifelong things. The settlement. I just got a check. So she's 19 years old. She has $650,000 of which is literally sitting in a height. In a. It was sitting in a 0.01% her savings account. And until I knew what to do, I at least got it into without commitment or anything, a 4% for six months high yield savings. But my question is she's. She has. The only debt she has is the one year of school. She just decided to take a gap year for next year because medically and the appointments are too much. So I don't know if she's going to go back. But we do have a student, a student loan. But if she doesn't, it's going to kick in. In six months probably. But the question is we live in a really great area for rentals and she is interested in real estate, which is what she's. During her gap year this year she's actually going to be taking some classes and interior design and all that. But an opportunity came up that I wanted to get your thoughts on because the rental market here is really strong and solid and we might have an opportunity. I don't know what to do with the 650,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would not buy a rental property for a 19 year old that has diminished capacity due to a car wreck that gave her 650 grand. No, I would not. Okay. She doesn't need the drama that tenants represent and that a leaking roof represents and the heating and air going out represents. Managing property is a pain in the bohunkas.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So I. Okay, I would, I looked into it a tad bit. So I'll take your advice and not go further on that. The only thing I was thinking is with the management company and all that. I think it could based on what I've seen after Prof. After fees and stuff again and talking to a real estate friend of mine who would be doing this with us, it looks like the profit if we were doing that and I'm not saying it sounds like we shouldn't, but my mindset in calling in was her profit. I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Is she of such diminished capacity that you're now her power of attorney?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so there's not a way it's a her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you're. It's not your decision, it's her decision.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're close and talking about it, but it's zero to do with me. We've already taken.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's got a lot to do with you in this conversation. You're the one driving this truck.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, because I wanted to ask if what she could make.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I mean you went out and found a rental property. You went out and found a management company. You went out and wanted to invest in real estate. You're the one that thinks the rental estate market is. Rental market is. I'm not hearing any of this from the 19 year old.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I mean.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So let's just take that all off. I'd love your thoughts on what to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would sit down, I would sit down with a smartvestor pro and I would park this money and not touch it and let her go make a living and, or finish school. And if you want, if she wants to pull enough out of it out to pay off her student loans and finish school with, that'd be a good investment. But she just needs to be really conservative and finish emotionally and physically healing. You said she's having ongoing issue. What is the ongoing issue? From the wreck.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So when she had the car accident, her retina was detached. She makes four months of school, she's had seven surgeries. Part of the ongoing. And why it took so long to settle is because we weren't sure what was coming. Now we have a good sense of, I mean she's got probably she's on our insurance right now because she's 19. But like our portion up until now, it's, it's probably, it's $6,000 every year just for these quarterly portion of her Botox shots, for her migraines and all of her. She's got neck issues and she's had several surgeries, but she's going to be able to work. But I set aside what I, what I know that we've had and I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just was like it's not going to keep her from working and, and prospering, but it is going to cost some money and ongoing medical for at least a while.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, that's fair. So yeah, I would just park that money With a smartvestor pro in some good mutual funds where you're making more than high yield savings. And I would make your life very, very uncompl. Let her life be very uncomplicated.

[Caller]

Dave, is there a. I'm just trying to think If I'm got $650,000 in an account and I have a 19 year old, the goal of that money and tell me if I'm out to lunch here, it's not like 650 grand fell from the sky for me to invest and try to get a maximum ROI on it. I want to do that. But the goal of that money is to make sure my kid is at least a little bit directionally whole.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Caller]

That's the point of that money. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So we take care of the medical bills, we clear the.

[Caller]

But I want to be extra conservative with that because the thought that the house burns down or some tenant trashes it and I need to come up with another 50,000 bucks to get it right. Like that seems to be the worst thing you could do with that money.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean you've got a destabilized situation with a very young person and that's not who needs to be a real estate investor.

[Caller]

But I would rather make 4% or 6% conservatively over time and make sure this money never goes away, then.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I'm comfortable with some good mutual funds that have long track records. Just pull. Because let's say it makes 10% instead of four.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

You pull off 60,000 bucks.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the thing just sits there perpetually. Yeah. And that can let her go on to school, let her go on and start a real estate career, whatever it is she's going to do.

[Caller]

But that can be some massive.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's the amount of stress that it, that it takes to make that money compared to managing rental properties, almost zero.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, and I love rental property, but it's the last thing you need to be doing, you know, in the middle of a stressful situation.

[Caller]

Sure. Especially as 19 year olds.

[Dave Ramsey]

It literally is the definition of stress being a landlord. I mean, it's like that's how you define stress being a landlord. And I don't care if you got a property manager or not, because the property manager is going to call and tell you what the tenant was doing. I mean, it's too late. I mean you still got it. You're the one absorbing the blows.

[Caller]

And you need to send us $350 because we sent somebody over there to repair something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That. That probably could have gotten done for $200. That kind of stuff. Yeah, that's so, you know, property managers don't magically make real estate easy. That's not. That's not how it works. Even if they tell you that they do. And especially if they tell you that they do. Rio is in Tampa. Hi, Rio. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey. How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I was thinking about trading in my car that I finance now to get a truck for work reasons. And just like investing in myself, I guess it would lower my car payment and it would also lower my car insurance, but then I would lose all the equity that I already have paid in my car. So I just don't really know what to do right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, what are you investing in with a truck? I don't understand.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, work. I've always been in, like, the construction. So I just started my llc. I want to take my. My painting business more seriously. And I. I do sales and roofing, so it's like, easier to have a truck because I have the ladder, and then I can take a ladder out and just kind of get up on the roof and stuff like that. So it's hard to do the things that I like.

[Dave Ramsey]

The roofing company that you work for doesn't furnish a truck with a ladder for you do estimates?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

How do you get on the roof?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I usually have my boss meet me, or I. It's like a commission based sales job.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much did you make last year doing that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I just. Well, I just started working with them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you don't go buy a truck for somebody to start going work for. No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, no, no, no. I get that 100.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. No, no, I. And I'm gonna sit right tight until you get to making some money, kiddo. Right now you're just dreaming about stuff. Go make some money. Go make some money. Go work and make some money. And that'll solve a lot of these problems. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions, possibly.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, credit unions, for one thing, are nonprofit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing so you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. And. But that's what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well. And I think we have found one.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is incredible and that's fair winds.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that.

[Caller]

We teach, they so line up with.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and.

[Dave Ramsey]

We got an account.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like the step by step approach was unbelievable.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then the next day my phone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I, I so, so appreciate that. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with [e-mail] or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org Ramsey Fairwinds is federally insured by NCUA.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ben is in Phoenix. Hey, Ben. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, so I have a question. I have a wedding coming up, kind of doubles as a vacation, and it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

For my brother and my whole family.

[Caller]

Is going to be there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I have the means to kind of make the experience a little better by spending a couple extra bucks if I choose to. But I'm not sure if I should do that, if I should maybe do it on a budget or maximize this hopefully one time experience for my brother.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, who's the wedding, you or your brother?

[Caller]

My brother's getting married, but the whole.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Family'S going to be there. It's kind of a destination thing. And, oh, you know, the wedding's one day, but we're all going to be there for probably about 10.

[Dave Ramsey]

I see. And so you, you're, you want to pay for the family to do some stuff while you're at the destination.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And unfortunately, my siblings aren't as, you know, financially responsible or savvy as me, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is this. How much is this gift going to cost you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, so that's the thing. I would probably spend an additional, like, thousand bucks to do the things that we were interested in doing, but that's. That's probably the most it would get up to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you in debt?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I. I'm not in debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How much money do you have in savings?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I got about 15 grand, and then my Roth and 401k probably combined to be about 55, 60.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you make a year base?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I make 82, and then I can bonus up to 50 of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so can you afford to set $1,000 in the middle of the floor and set it on fire?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I can. I think the bigger issue for me is the. I kind of feel some resentment towards my siblings for not being able to participate as much as I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like, they don't do anything to you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I know, I know, I know. Why do you.

[Caller]

Why do you feel resentful of them instead of thinking, dude, how cool is it that I've done pretty well and I get to just have a good time?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I think it's because.

[Caller]

Let me ask. Why? Are you keeping score?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's. That's a good question. And I don't know if it's necessarily me keeping score as much as it is watching them live their lives and doing things that have led to them not being able to be involved financially in this situation.

[Caller]

But here's the thing. Hold on, hold on. It's not like there's a really cool opportunity, and somebody said, hey, can everybody pitch in? And they said, no. Or they said, we don't have the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Money, or would you give me some money?

[Caller]

Would you give me some money?

[Dave Ramsey]

They have. They don't even know you're doing this.

[Caller]

You're rolling in there. You're like, dude, I could do something awesome for everybody. How dare you not have the money to do the awesome thing that I want to do for you? You get what I'm saying? Yeah, totally.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So let me backtrack a little bit.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The initial thing was the. The gift. The wedding gift.

[Dave Ramsey]

So my old brother was not going.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

To do a photographer, and I said, that seems ridiculous. Like, why don't we band together as a family and we pitch in to purchase a photographer? Everyone kind of seemed on board. And then about a week ago, or two weeks ago when I went to go book the photographer, pretty last minute. I know it sounded like everyone else kind of wasn't able to do that, so I decided just to do it anyways and told me if they could pitch in, great. But if not, it is what it is. But I guess I shouldn't have said that necessarily if I didn't feel that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Caller]

There you go. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, yeah, I know it's definitely a me problem, but I guess. I don't know, I'm just trying to, like, help them get to a point where they can do these types of things.

[Dave Ramsey]

And.

[Caller]

And that's. That's not for a wedding weekend, dude. Not in my opinion. My opinion for wedding weekend is to have a good time and laugh. And one of you guys has done great. I don't know. That's. Dave. Tell me if I'm wrong here, but, bro, you. You've won. You have the opportunity. Here's what you're going to look forward to in 25 years. Are you gonna think back to this wedding and be like, man, I'm glad we all went on that fishing trip. We all did that thing. Or can't believe they didn't have 75 each to go on the. Like, man, just spend the money. Go have your good time with your family and friends. That's. That's my thought on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You've got the money, and that's. That's what you want to do with it. But don't do it if you're going to hold a grudge.

[Caller]

Yeah. Or if you're doing it and it makes you feel superior.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. And both of those things are kind of coming out in the conversation.

[Caller]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So. Yeah. So you. You know, I'd put those things aside or I wouldn't do it. One of the two, and just say, that's the way it is. It's just, you know, we just did the wedding. Because you're not, like, in charge of the wedding. It's not your wedding. It's your brother's.

[Caller]

Yeah. And if he says, I don't want to. I don't want a photographer, or I can't afford a photographer, then until he.

[Dave Ramsey]

Says, well, he already bought the photographer. That's done.

[Caller]

I know, but I'm. But before that, his brother said, hey, we're not going to get a photographer. And then he took it upon himself to say, hey, that's dumb. I'll buy it and. Or we'll all pitch in for it. But it's. It's I'm coming to solve problems that people aren't asking me to solve and then I'm getting upset that I'm solving them. Right. Either be invited into this deal or just be really great, gracious and giving and move on with your life, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got too many strings attached to your grand, your thousand bucks. It's not, it's not that big a deal. So either let it go and let it go freely or just keep it and, and just keep your mouth shut. Enjoy the wedding and then do the.

[Caller]

Teaching on, on finances later after the wedding.

[Dave Ramsey]

Brent is in Raleigh. Hey Brent, welcome to the Ramsey show. Hey Dave, how's it going? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I'm a full time fireman. I'm 25 years old. I make about 60,000 a year. I've been contributing to my Roth for.

[Caller]

The past five years, fully funded.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I want to start a part.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Time business doing some small scale excavating residential homes and whatnot.

[Caller]

And I'm looking to buy a piece.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of equipment and I want to know it's smart for me to buy it.

[Caller]

I have about $57,000 in cash in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The bank right now. Get a used piece of equipment for around 35 to 40,000. Would it be smart for me to buy this equipment straight out with cash? Would it be smart for me to find next part of it so I can have some leftover in case the equipment breakdown or truck breakdown. And I'm just looking for some advice on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, most of the firemen that I know and I've worked with over the years do very well on their side hustle. And because it's a wonderful schedule to be able to schedule to be able to build side hustles in. But I think I'm hearing that you are, it sounds like. What is your experience with driving this piece of equipment? Have you done it before?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I have ever since I've been about 16 years old. My uncle owns a large scale grading business so I'm pretty familiar with operating equipment. I've been doing it for quite a while.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what makes you think there's a market enough for you doing this part time with this one dozer to make 35 grand back on a side hustle. That sounds awfully deep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I'd be looking to get an excavator. My some of my family does pool business and part of that would be digging pools for them on the side. A guy that I work with does septic tanks part time. So part of the Business will be from him.

[Caller]

Kind of relying on both of them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

To get my foot in the door.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, if you got. If you got some of those things moving some pools and some septic tanks to dig, what kind of money are you thinking you would make?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm thinking anywhere from 1500 to $2000 a job maybe.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how many jobs are you going to get a month?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm shooting for maybe two to three a month. Starting out with.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, so you break even in a year. So you work for free for the first year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think there's better side hustles than working for free for a year.

[Caller]

Is it possible to rent one and give it a shot and see how this first year plays out?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Absolutely. Average rentals for a piece of equipment like that is about fifteen hundred dollars a week where I'm at.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that does sound right. So here's the thing. I don't want to do a side hustle that I break even on in one year. If I'm going to do a side hustle, I need to break even on it in two months. And so I'm not excited about investing $35,000 to make $35,000 the first year. I just, I. That's not a good business model for you. I think you can use your effort doing something else now. I don't know if renting one is the answer. Probably not. Unless you lined up five jobs in a week and, you know, you rent it for 1500 and you make 8000 in a week or something, you could do that. But. Yeah. No, Brian, I would not do this. But I will tell you, I want you to continue to explore the idea of something you can do as a side hustle, working for yourself without such a heavy investment. Because a lot of firefighters make another 60 grand a year doing that, not break even in a year. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Caller]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[Caller]

And. Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, They've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too.

[Caller]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here and you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[Caller]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family.

[Caller]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

To just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you are here. Big announcement. It's May and the Ramsey cash giveaway is officially here. You can enter every day from May 1 through 31. One grand prize winner will get $5,000 and there's going to be a $500 winner every week. Could be a game changer. 5K. Yeah. You could crush some debt with that. You could get your emergency fund going with that. Ramsey Solutions.com giveaway. And enter early and enter often. No purchase necessary to win. Question of the day is brought to you by. Why refi? Why refi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch and helps you get your life back. So kick your private student loan debt to the curb. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Caller]

My husband and I are on baby step four. This is from Lauren in Pennsylvania. Husband and I are on baby step four. We're in our 30s and we have two kids under five. We both worked overtime inside hustles to pay off debt and get our our emergency fund in place. We work opposite schedules to avoid daycare fees. I love my husband for his work ethic, but we seldom see each other and our children rarely see us together. We don't live paycheck to paycheck anymore and we have a budget that we stick to. I can't convince him that work isn't the only thing that matters. Are my feelings reasonable or should we grind it out and hope our marriage survives?

[Dave Ramsey]

Baby Step four, you move from intensity to intentionality. And he has not done that.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's still getting it. Like his. Like his hair is on fire. Like he's scared to death. And so, no, we would recommend that you normalize and create a sustainable work rhythm. And what you're saying is, is this is not sustainable.

[Caller]

Right. And work rhythm, by the way, doesn't mean that there's not intense periods of work, long hours, you don't see each other very much. Somebody's picking up way more slack than somebody else. That's every. That's every job, it's every marriage, it's every life. But that, you can't do that forever.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it's a rhythm. The tide comes in, the tide goes out. So, like, I put dishes away after a dinner party and cleaned up until almost midnight last night. But next week, you and I will be gone all week. So she'd be on her own for that one.

[Caller]

That's exactly right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, you know, that's. You see what I'm saying? So that's. That's. The tide goes in, tide goes out. Right. Different thing. Because next week you and I are working. We're going to be in three different cities and travel and, you know, all that kind of stuff. So media and all, you know, all the stuff that we do when we're out there running around in circles. But yeah, so that. That's the trick. And I think what's scaring you is, is that this hasn't shift. There's no. You're supposed to let your foot off the gas when you hit baby step four. Not. Not all the way off, but you're not pedal to the metal.

[Caller]

And not to preach here, but this is that moment of pictures and words. You both said the words, when we get out of debt, we get the baby step four. And you had a picture of what that would look like, and that's y'all sitting on the couch, hanging out, laughing, going for walks. And he did. Had a very different picture, which is, I'm going to keep working hard and I'm going to get this house paid off as fast as possible. What you'll need to do is to get away and exhale, even if it's just for a meal, and just exhale and say, hey, we made it. What do we want this thing to look like? What's a very clear picture of baby steps 4, 5, and 6 was that we're all going to look like for us, because this isn't sustainable and it wasn't designed to be Sustainable.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it was just we. You do whatever you take to get through.

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's intensity. But then once you get here, time to make a little shift. And it's not. It may be that he is just excited about finishing off the house and you know, finishing off the wealth building journey a little bit more. It might be that he's scared.

[Caller]

He may be like me, where I didn't know how to be a dad and I wasn't super great at it and I didn't. I always felt like I was doing everything wrong and I was really successful at work and that just became a place where I knew I could go support my family and not feel like I was a failure all the time. Either way, wherever you find yourself, you'll have to sit down and have that conversation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, buddy of mine hit a golf shot the other day. I said, man, perfect. He said, words you never hear at home.

[Caller]

Never.

[Dave Ramsey]

Kevin in Sacramento. Hi, Kevin. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm doing well. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So. So Dave, I am in step, baby step five. I currently am renting, but I'm planning on building, building a house for my family soon. So the main question is, so I know my parents retirement plan, I know their net worth, their house and everything. And after having calculated everything for them, they're barely going to scrape by. So I'm wondering, should I go towards baby step six or take a much more active role in my parents retirement?

[Caller]

Have they invited you into that conversation? Are you doing this for them?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, so they, so we had a financial conversation and they told me everything and I actually did this calculation for them because I'm, I got that part.

[Caller]

I got that part. But did they say, hey, can you help us?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They didn't actively say. They didn't ask me actively, but it's just me seeing their situation and I just feel like they're, they're just not thriving. You know, they're barely going to survive and now.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's because they need to sell some stuff that none of y'all want to talk about them selling. Right.

[Caller]

Or they got to keep working jobs that no one wants them to keep working.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, my dad's, he's, he's hitting the retirement age soon.

[Caller]

Yep. Retirement's not an age, dude. Retirement's not an age.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old is he?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's, he's turning 65 soon.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I am too. And I'm not quitting. And I don't even.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

My mother, my mother has. My mother's A retired nurse, so she has somewhat of a pension coming.

[Caller]

I know. Kevin, you're not here. Not hearing what we're saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

They need to keep working.

[Caller]

Yeah. It's not like Michael Scott that went out and declared bankruptcy. That one.

[Dave Ramsey]

I declare retirement.

[Caller]

Retirement isn't just an age you get to. If y'all are looking, saying we're not scraping by. The variable you're not taking into consideration is they can't stop working, then they want to. That's the world they want to have, but they don't have enough money to do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's their house worth?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Their current house worth is 600,000, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

They paid that off. Yeah. And where is it?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

North Carolina.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so the house is paid for and they have a pension coming in and they're going to have to work some to supplement the pension and Social Security to stay afloat. Is that what you're saying?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So my dad. Yeah. So the thing is, like, I. I mean, I agree that if you can work, you can work. When my mother, she had to retire early due to health can. Health issues. My father, he's completely healthy, but recently he's developed, like, a heart condition and he had to get his valve replaced. So.

[Caller]

So what are you. What are you asking us about your situation? Like, can you help and pitch in?

[Dave Ramsey]

No. I think you need to coach them on how they take the money that. And the opportunities that they have to make themselves a sustainable life. I don't think you supplement this. You don't have the money to supplement it, number one, based on what you told me anyway. And because there's not $5 million laying somewhere I don't know about in this conversation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I definitely don't have.

[Dave Ramsey]

I definitely don't have $5 million. You don't even own a house. You don't even own a house. And so. No, you're not. You know, they own a $650,000 house. They kind of got it up on you right now. And so I think they need to reconfigure their life to live within the income they can create and. Or have coming in. And if that means selling the $650,000 house and moving into a $350,000 condo, I'm okay with that. If that means that they work some. And she's got it. She's a nurse, but she can't maybe go walk the floor as a nurse, but she probably can do a lot on remote work as a nurse. I would imagine there's lots of remote things she can do. Sitting at a computer, using her nursing knowledge that will make some money to come in and without straining her physically. And once his valve is replaced, what can he do? Probably not going to be digging ditches or running marathons. But could he do some things with his mind that he has learned over the years and bring in another thousand or two thousand dollars a month consulting fees on something? Sure. And those are the kinds of things I want you to coach them on. Not you start writing them checks because it's tight, because you're not in a position to. And now, now everybody goes down with this ship because they won't deal with creating a sustainable mathematic situation.

[Caller]

Dealing with reality is hard, man. Nobody wants this, but this is just where we find ourselves.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep, it's, it's a tough, tough thing. Sorry. Hey, technology has changed a lot in the last 30 years. Now the hot topic is AI. And I understand that it might seem intimidating, but if you use AI the right way, it's just another tool to help you work smarter and faster, like a calculator or a cordless drill. So if you run a business, you'd better get on board with it before you get left behind. And NetSuite by Oracle offers AI powered tools that help small businesses improve efficiency and make smarter decisions by bringing all their major business processes into one platform. That way, there's one source of truth for the real time data you need to take advantage of opportunities. Then you can forecast better, scale more efficiently and streamline those manual tasks that take too long. So join the more than 41,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, that rely on NetSuite to help tackle some of their biggest challenges. And right now you can download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey that's free at netsuite.com Ramsey live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John DeLoney, Ph.D. in counseling, Ramsey personality number one. Bestselling author and host of the Dr. John DeLoney show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co host today. Andy's with us. Andy's in Chicago. Hi, Andy. How are you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, guys, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so I have a question. I just recently found out that my husband, the total of the credit card debt that he's got is, I'm guessing and assuming or not getting assuming, but guessing 60 to 80,000 and I just keep finding out little things here and there of more. And my goal, our goal was supposed to be to get a house and move out of, you know, where we're at and the choices that he continues to make. For example, on wanting a couch, that means going from like a hundred dollar couch, he wants like two to four thousand dollar couch and get into that debt. And now he brought up this morning that the easiest way we can get out of debt is to do I. It's a consolidation known where all the debt is put into one payment. And I feel it's like getting into more debt. It's not biblical. I'm at my wits end. I don't know how else I could guide him besides saying it's a bad idea and I don't know what to do. Y'all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay? Yeah, that little part of the whole conversation is a bad idea for sure. The worst idea is the way you guys are operating. You're operating like roommates and your roommate has a budget. Your roommate has a problem over here. Instead of like the two of us together, make our decisions together and we manage our money together to go to the dreams that we want to live together. And he's acting like a free agent just running around over here and you can't tell me if I buy a couch and I'll do whatever I want to do and I may or may not tell you and that's really destructive, isn't it?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, sir. And I don't know what else to do. I've suggested the budget and I said the app.

[Caller]

And it's just that's not where the problem lies. Here's the problem, number one, you don't even know how bad this is. And until you both sit down and pull credit reports and you actually have real data in front of you, pull all three of them and you look and see who do you owe money to. And here's why you have to do it that way, because you don't trust him because he keeps lying to you. He keeps telling you, no, this is it. And you find out there's a couch note and then you find out there's another note. And here's the second problem. You tell him, hey, I'm so scared about our financial future. You know how you say those words to him? You're stupid. This plan doesn't work. Why don't you budget?

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't say those. Instead you say, instead you say, I'm scared.

[Caller]

But that's the way you talk to him. Hey, this is a dumb idea. And he doesn't hear that. He thinks, nope, you're dumb. And then here's where. And then he's hiding couch receipts somewhere instead of you saying, do you love me? Because if you do, I'm sorry. So scared about happens next for us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I just brought this up today and I think this is what led me to the conversation of the call is I heard, I just want to give you everything you want.

[Caller]

It's not true. That is not true.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a lie.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Making me feel like, no, he's lying to you. I can literally live with rv, get rid of everything. Let's get rid of the debt, sell everything. These are the examples I have given him. Just, let's get rid of everything we don't need, pay off those cards, get back up, float and breathe. And none of that is being heard. And I don't know what to do. Y'all.

[Caller]

Let him see this right here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He has. It's not working. I feel the devil is attacking and I don't know what to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not devil. It's your husband being a twerp. It's not the devil. Don't blame the devil. He's not that good at it. No, I, you know, I think the two of you desperately need to sit down with a marriage counselor because I predict that in six months your marriage is going to be over. If you don't deal with this issue because you're reaching, you're. You're getting close to that point where the switch is going to flip and you're going to look at him and go, I'm done. You're dangerously close to that.

[Caller]

Are some of your tears coming? Because you know that there's much more to come here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because I'm scared you're not listening. And I just, I try to help him lead and find God and it just is too much.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long y'all been married?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We've been together about seven, eight years and married a little over a year.

[Caller]

What's he spending $60,000 on?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't know. He. For the last guy, I mean, however many years, he's. He's had a work injury, so he's put in on that. He said when he wasn't working, he put that on the credit cards and it just. I don't know. I don't. I just. What I don't see is why is it so difficult to get rid of material stuff so we can pay this debt off? I don't. To me, it's a no brainer if that Makes sense. You know, I can go with living in a little square with minimal stuff, and let's just get rid of them, work really hard. I can't even go out and work because the excuses is a medical condition. Well, I'm willing to go through that medical condition and work just so we can pay this off. So how come he's not willing to do that? That's also.

[Caller]

It could be any number of reasons. But I'm telling you right now, there's a listening to how you're mapping this thing out. I think there's other things going on. Whether he's got somebody else on the side, whether he's struggling with some sort of addiction, whether he's wrestling with some bigger demons. I think there's something else at play. And my gut tells me that you know that to be true. Also, I'm happy to be way wrong, but I think I'm right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. You won't get help.

[Caller]

Am I right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Possibly. Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay, so money here is. It's the lights flashing on the dashboard. Your marriage has way bigger issues.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How do you ask somebody to. You can't. We can lead a ports the water. You can't force him to drink.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y'all, it's not about the money. You guys need to go to marriage counseling this week, or your marriage is going to end.

[Caller]

Yeah, if he hasn't left you already. He just hasn't bothered to move out yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you guys. And if he. If. Listen, you say, I'm scared and I can't get through to you, and we can't get on the same page, we're going to have to have some outside help. I'm going to a marriage counselor. If you want to save our marriage, you should go with me. Yeah, and if he won't go with you, go anyway by yourself.

[Caller]

And it's clear you've left me. If you want to save this marriage, you're going to come with me to this one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you've got to rejoin me again. And we got to build something for the future, because the thing that. The thing we were trying to do didn't work. It's a mess. And, you know, because. Andy, I've worked in this stuff for 30 years, and I'm not a marriage counselor. John is. But I do know that when people reach a certain point, the switch flips and you can't get them back. And I don't want that to happen to you. I want to catch you before the switch is and you're just done. Y'all go work on this before you're done. I hate to admit this, but I don't always eat right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know I need to eat more.

[Caller]

Fruits and veggies, but sometimes I just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have to pound some chips because they taste so good. That's why I love my field of greens.

[Caller]

It helps me eat healthy when I don't have much time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And each fruit and vegetable in field.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of greens was doctor selected for a specific health benefit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Heart, lungs, kidney, metabolism, even healthy weight.

[Caller]

And folks, I ain't getting any younger.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's super easy to mix with water.

[Caller]

And here is the great part of it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I thought it might taste like grass.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it tastes great.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And only field of Greens makes this promise. Your doctor will notice your improved health.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or your money back.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsey for 20%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Off your first order.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's fieldofgreens.com Ramsey to save 20% on your first order.

[Dave Ramsey]

The money and relationships tour is halfway over and the energy in every room has been unreal. Each stop has been packed with real talk, big laughs and life changing moments. Now it's your turn. Come hang out with me and Dr. John DeLoney in a city near you for a night that could change your money, your relationships and your future. This is your last chance to join us in Phoenix, Fort Worth or Kansas City the week of May 5th. Grab your tickets today at ramseysolutions.com tour. Brittany is in Rhode Island. Hi, Brittany. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hi, Dave. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So our situation is that we're needing to buy a bigger car because we're about to have our third baby. Some dear friends of ours mentioned that they'd be interested in buying it off of us. And both my husband and I felt called to just actually give the car to them. The car is worth about $10,000. And then of course, last week the check engine light comes on. I bring it in for the repair. It's going to cost about $4,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait a minute.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is a check engine light equaling $4,000?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So there's an oil leak that's kind of, you know, I guess standard to subar. It's. It's kind of all over the engine. And they've said at this point they need to take the engine out, replace all the gaskets. And it's about a 16 hour labor job we've had.

[Dave Ramsey]

That would be the Subaru dealer.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It is. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Bull crap. Absolute bullcrap.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Gave us a $3,800 quote, so we're kind of looking at.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait a minute, who gave you a what?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

A mom and pop shop that we Trust gave us $3,800 quote.

[Caller]

So you've got two quotes and they're both in the same neighborhood.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, exactly.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And verified again, we've got some mechanics that we know. You know, we've had a few people verify like, yes, this is the job that needs to get done, so maybe we find someone to do it for a bit cheaper. But still, we're probably looking at like the three to four thousand dollar range.

[Caller]

This couple offered to buy the car from you and you all wanted to give it to them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Caller]

Why does anything change other than you say, hey, we're going to give this to you, but it's going to need 4,000 bucks worth of work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I guess I just feel like we offered them or committed to them a $10,000 gift and you know, they can use it. And now we're, we're giving them a car that, you know, may or may not. I don't know if this problem is going to recur.

[Caller]

Where did this 10,000 number pop into your head that's now become a. Because it's now become a debt? You feel like you owe them this?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Caller]

Who do you owe?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I guess we don't feel like that's what, you know, I committed. And giving them less than that just feels wrong for some reason to me.

[Caller]

I don't think it's wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, if it had started with out of the blue, you felt like God told you to give them that car. Maybe, but out of the blue they were going to buy it and you flipped it to free.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that changes the equation in my mind and releases you from the obligation to fix the car. So Instead of paying $10,000 for a $10,000 car or $8,000 for a $10,000 car, they're going to pay $3,800 to have their free ten thousand dollar car fixed. And I think they still got a deal.

[Caller]

An incredible deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

You still, a lot of generosity coming off of you, like $4,000 or $6,000 worth.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

No, I would have this conversation with, with a smile on my face, like, all right, here we go guys. You know how this works. We're going to give you this car. We're still going to give it to you. Here is both of the, the two estimates that we just got because of course the lights came on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And if you, if y'all don't want it, it's okay. It's cool. We'll just, we'll just sell it somebody else because we want you to know what you're getting into.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

And everybody, everybody.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't want to, we don't want to give. We don't get. We don't want to give you a broken car and you not know it. We want you to know what you're getting. It's not as good a gift as we all thought it was going to be because we drove it one more week and the engine light came on. If you already had it and engine light came on and two weeks later you would have same exact. You'd be sitting in the same situation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Yeah. All right, so bring them into the decision. And you think definitely don't pay the 4000 to repair it.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm definitely not paying the 4000 to repair it. I wouldn't if it was me now. And I get that you have, you really feel strongly you've done your due diligence on this, but I'm just still struggling with an oil leak turning into $4,000 worth of every gasket and the whole stupid thing has to be replaced. The engine has to be pulled. I, I can't get there. And I, you know, I'm not a Subaru expert, but I have pulled a few engines and put in a few gaskets and I'm not a certified mechanic, but I'm also not going to believe in anything. Anytime the dealer gives me a $4,000 quote, that generally means somewhere else. It's at least 50% of that in general, just in general. Okay, I'll give you an example. Guy called here last week, he 2,000 miles outside of the warranty. The engine in his two year old Jaguar, blue. They want $35,000 to put a Jaguar engine in it. The dealer does 2,000 miles outside of the warranty. You think Dave's doing that? No, no, no, no, no, no. We're gonna go down to what we used to call the junkyard. And then they called it the salvage yard. Now it's called recyclable auto parts. And you buy a used Jaguar engine from somebody that totaled theirs for $7,000 and you put that in there and that's how you fix that car.

[Caller]

Is it wrong of me? Now that cars are more and more like just mobile iPhones that there's a. As soon as you get outside the warranty, there's just a button you can push somewhere that just says, blows up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your little conspiracy theory going, John, I have 2,000, 2,000. Hit the button. Hit the button.

[Caller]

We need some more business in here.

[Dave Ramsey]

The button I was going to push was call Jaguar and say you guys are getting ready to get a whole bunch of bad press because I'm going to have 2,000 miles worth of $35,000 worth of fun on your butt for your car melting down right outside of warranty if you all don't help me put an engine in this in some way. You got to meet me halfway and help me out with this. That's the other, that's other thing I told the guy to do because I mean, seriously. But hey, there we go. There we go. You never know. So I'm.

[Caller]

Plus your car should need a new engine. I get. If a part fails or he blew.

[Dave Ramsey]

The engine, I don't know what he did, but say somehow the engine. I mean, I talked to him about a while. He dropped a rod and it was blown. But, but a rod shouldn't, it shouldn't.

[Caller]

Be grown too die.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hello. Are you, are you this piss poor at building engines? I mean, seriously, you know, I mean that's, that's what you get into. So anyway, yeah, I'm always, Can you tell I have the gift of cynicism. So yeah, I'm always a little suspect of these things. And I'm not saying mechanics or crooks, that's not it at all. But dealers, let me tell you, I do know this. Statistically there's an interesting fact for you people. The square footage in the new car, auto dealer that makes the most money for the auto dealer is the finance office. They make more money on loaning you money than they do on selling you a car. The square footage that makes the second most money in the new car dealership is the shop.

[Caller]

The shop.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because the markup is freaking retail and then some.

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so they, they just make. Bank on it, man. It's that simple.

[Caller]

You get 50 emails a week saying, hey, you need this, you need this, you need this.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you really get, if you're a car dealer and you understand your business, a new car dealer, you, you're in the car business not to sell cars, but to sell financing and repairs and oil changes.

[Caller]

Yeah, I, when I bought my last car, I told the guy, he said, hey, you want to go ahead and take out this? It was like a, some kind of short term warranty because this is the average amount of repairs this car is going to need the next two years. And I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. If you already have an actuarial table that Says, this thing's going to break this many thousands of dollars in two years. I'm out of this car. I thought it was a great car. And he's like, no, no, that's not what I mean, man. I said, no, if you're telling me I need to give you extra money so the brand new thing you're giving me isn't going to break. And he's like, well, that's not really what I'm trying to say, man. What I'm trying. And I was like, yeah, just. I don't do warranties, man. I'm good. But like, man, if you're already telling me, hey, what we're selling you is going to break here soon and so give us some extra money. That's just not a product I want to be a part of, man. I'm just. I. Dude, Dave, I'm so sick of the shakedown.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you tell? We're both have.

[Caller]

I'm just so sick of them. Here's why you and I can afford it. There's too many millions of Americans who just trying to get to work and back and they're dealing with this crap, and it just makes me sick from the stomach. It pisses me off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. Amen. This is the Ramsey show. Okay, you guys.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

54 of Americans say it's a challenge to save on groceries without sacrificing quality. That's why I'm thrilled to tell you about Aldi. Aldi gives you simpler, better food choices.

[Dave Ramsey]

That can save your family nearly $4,000 a year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

From the daily essentials to organic produce, juice, fresh meat, and more, Aldi has.

[Dave Ramsey]

What you need at prices that won't bust your budgets.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So stop paying more and start shopping.

[Dave Ramsey]

Smarter at Aldi, where you'll save with.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near your today at Aldi US that's a L D, I dot US.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, folks, how would winning $5,000 in cash change your life? This month we're giving $5,000 to one grand prize winner and we're giving away a 500 prize every week in May. It takes less than 15 seconds to enter. No purchase is necessary, and you can enter daily. To increase your chances of winning, enter the Ramsey cash giveaway until May [e-mail] giveaway. That's ramseysolutions.com giveaway. Grant is in Philadelphia. Hey, Grant. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hello, Mr. Ramsey. How you doing today, sir?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I was wondering, I Know, this is a bit of a generalized question, but I was wondering if you had any advice or tips for listeners who feel limited in their potential due to issues with. Due to issues, excuse me, with mental health.

[Caller]

Tell me more.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I'm just giving you a little bit of background. I'm not in a deep financial hole or anything like that, but there is a bit of family history. Part of it is addiction, part of it is mental health. My mother had depression and anxiety. My father, gambling addict. Great parents. At the end of the day, very fantastic parents. They did a good job. But family history there, that just kind of caused disruptions in my childhood and then into adulthood. On my personal end, my mother passed away in 2017. When that happened, I received an inheritance, obviously, and I just was not smart with it the way I needed to be. Instead of investing it, instead of using that to catapult myself into a stable future, ended up spending it. I still think about those mistakes to this day. And now I'm in a situation, I'm approaching 30. I would like to be able to start a family, have financial stability, all these different things. But those past failures combined with the family history really just kind of put a damper on those thoughts. So it's hard to have long term motivation.

[Caller]

Do you, do you have mental health diagnostics? Have you been diagnosed with emotional mental health?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, yeah. So when I was younger, I was diagnosed Asperger's syndrome. Now that's changed since then. Obviously they got rid of that diagnosis. So I think it's just autism. I mean, outside of that, there's definitely a little bit of anxiety and things of that nature.

[Caller]

So given what I mean, just the two seconds, you just unpacked your 30 seconds, you unpacked your childhood. What I would love to tell you is it sounds like for the last 25, 27, 28 years, you've been surviving and congratulations, you made it. Did you do something dumb with money? Yes, we all do. And the only thing you can do anything about is what comes happen, what happens next. And so let me ask you something. Any time you sit down and you think about blowing all that money, has that ever, have you ever been able to figure out how to get some of that money back and deposit it into your checking account?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I mean, like, in terms of the money that's already gone, like, I do think about just how could I have been smarter with it? And like in the present day, how can I budget my money, how can I make sure that money set aside for emergencies, for a future, so in those avenues I'm doing well. I do have money saved up. I have a 401k, I have a Roth IRA.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you don't have a mental health diagnosis.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean so what you are is like a normal 30 year old person.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That made a mistake once with money. You don't have any limiting factors.

[Caller]

In fact you've climbed, you scratched and clawed your way out of a pretty hellacious childhood to get here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Thank you for that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds like, sounds like a pretty strong. To me. You're a lot stronger than you think you are.

[Caller]

I, I, if I were you, I would go sit down with somebody and get some get retested just to clear your mind. I don't want you googling. I have some sort of diagnostic or some sort of self limiting factor and there's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

John, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of any environmental. But no physical, inherited. You know, if your dad's an addict, it doesn't make you an addict.

[Caller]

No, but you can, you can grow up in a pretty traumatic situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but that's an environment.

[Caller]

I mean that's why you get to decide what happens next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caller]

So Grant, what do you think you're doing wrong right now?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think right now it's just, I don't think that I'm branching out on my own being independent enough. So I'm living with my dad now. We both kind of need each other him, you know, I think I'm helping him financially, he's helping me emotionally. So we're a good team. But it's.

[Caller]

Do you need emotional support right now, Grant?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not through a therapist. I've tried those in the past. I'm just a little, I don't want to say cynical, but doubtful. Maybe, you know, it's like a little tough to kind of.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you don't want to your addict father support you as a 30 year old emotionally.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, emotionally. It's just that as you could tell just from this pre phone call, there's a lot of self doubt there. And he does try to be as encouraging as possible. You know, this time a year ago I was originally an operations manager for shipping company and I did really well and just you know, some wear and tear. Emotionally, physically ended up losing that job and that really rocked my confidence. He ended up being the person there that just got me through that.

[Caller]

He got you through or. He said I believe in you, you can do it. And by the way, I need you to pay the electric bill and the light Bill, can I borrow $100?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. It wasn't the, it wasn't the electric bill necessarily. We were. So the original plan when I moved in with him was, hold on, we're.

[Caller]

Going to get all sideways. Here's the deal. I don't understand what you're asking. How can I, how can I help? Because here's the deal. You don't want professional help because you're cynical of it. You don't want to get rediagnosed because. But you do want to diagnose yourself. You don't want to get away from some of this toxic behavior that you grew up with, yet you want to live with your dad, you want to be secure with money as a 30 year old, yet you still feel compelled to fund his life. All these are choices you're allowed to make. You're a grown adult, but I'm trying to walk you through each one of them and saying where they're not in alignment with what you're telling me you want your life to look like. And so how can I help?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

How can I help?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think it's just, I guess how can I, how can I branch away and become independent, move away, get a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Job and move away, branch away and become independent, get a, get a one.

[Caller]

Bedroom apartment and say, dad, in two months I'm going to be out here on my own because it's time for me to be a 30 year old man all by myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

And by the way, confidence doesn't come from someone saying, I believe in you. Confidence comes from actually accomplishing something that's right. And yes, the muscle that's built.

[Caller]

We need people to pick us up when we fall and that's awesome. And then we got to go take the next step. Yeah, that's confidence. That's where you get confident.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to go get some quick wins. Get some wins that make you feel good, that make you say, I did this, I accomplished something. I accomplished something. I rented an apartment, I got four jobs, I piled up some cash, I work a lot, I'm good with people. And start to build some confidence around these things because you've set your identity up as the child of a depressed mother and an addict father and destined to follow in their tracks. And you are not destined to follow in their tracks. You are destined to make a choice as to whether you will follow in their tracks.

[Caller]

And you can't say, I need some help, I want some guidance. But I don't want to take help and I don't want to take guidance. Those Two things are incompatible together. So either you have the courage and the humility to say, I don't know how to do what comes next. I'm gonna go sit down the professional. I'm gonna go talk to a, an investment professional. I'm gonna go talk to a mental health professional. I'm gonna talk to somebody to walk me through this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Caller]

Or I'm just gonna keep staying in the same situation. At the end of the day, I'll give you a quote from my friend Michael Easter. Do something. Do something that is different from the situation you're in right now. Otherwise everything will stay the. It will degrade, it will slowly decompose underneath you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Those continue. Continuing to do the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. That's what the 12 Steppers say. And they're quoting Edison when they said that. Or Einstein. One or two, I can't remember which, but either one. So, yeah, it's. Yeah, the. So when I went broke, Grant, I got the. And lost everything. I also lost a lot of my confidence. And I'm a brand new dad and a husband and I'm obviously lousy at all of it because the water and the electricity got cut off in the house that my children lived in. Not exactly a non toxic environment, you know. And so then I get to decide somewhere in the following months, am I a bankrupt guy who is useless, or am I a guy who made some mistakes and went bankrupt? Those are two different sets of identities. And I had to make that conscious decision. I had to make that decision consciously as an act of my will. And by the way, my parents went bankrupt when I was a kid. So does that mean it's always destined for my children then, to go bankrupt? Is that a. Is this like a DNA thing? Well, crap, no.

[Caller]

You get to choose what happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

You get to choose not to do the stupid stuff that causes bankruptcy. And so, you know, in the following 35 years, I've become a multi, multi millionaire, choosing not to do the stupid stuff that caused me to file bankruptcy. And because I'm not defined by that. It's something that happened, something that I did, but it's not who I am. And that's a different thing. It's not who I am based on my parents, and it's not who I am based on my failure, because failure is a momentary thing. I found something that didn't work and I changed it, went to something that does work.

[Caller]

It's a definition of wisdom.

[Dave Ramsey]

People ask me all the time, George.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What'S your number one money saving hack?

[Caller]

Glad you asked.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nothing makes me happier than helping another frugal friend.

[Caller]

So here's the hack. Get on a budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Seriously? How are you supposed to save money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you don't know how much you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

Spending in the first place? And that's what makes the EveryDollar budgeting.

[Caller]

App a game changer.

[Dave Ramsey]

With EveryDollar, you'll get a clear picture.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of your spending, and from there, it's easy to see where you can get more intentional cut back and save more money.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much money are we talking here? Well, the average EveryDollar budgeter frees up $395 in their first budget. That's the hack.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you ask me, I think.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'Re way above average.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you'll save even more. So what are you doing still listening to me? Go download the EveryDollar app for free.

[Dave Ramsey]

And start saving more money right now. Well, next week, Dr. John DeLoney and I will be doing three. The three last stops of the money and relationships tour. You do not have to stay trapped in money problems. Money patterns, relationship patterns that cause each other. Yeah, it's an issue. And we can show you how you can break the cycle. If you don't have your tickets yet for when we're in Phoenix this coming Monday, May 5th, you can still get tickets to that. Fort Worth. There's a handful of tickets left for six or something.

[Caller]

It's almost gone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, May 7th. Almost gone. Kansas City sold out. It's Friday, May 9th. I think there might be some singles in there if you pull up the website and look at it. But. But you're. You know, if you want to come with somebody, you're gonna be sitting apart. So it's sold out. If you're tuning in on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the show notes or go to ramseysolutions.com tour. We would love to have you in Kansas City, in Fort Worth, in Phoenix. Check it out. Amber's in Houston. Hey, Amber, what's up?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hello. I'm calling today because my husband and I are severely in debt, and we are trying to find. Determine whether or not selling our home would be the best course of action.

[Caller]

All right, tell us about it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so, well, Basically, we're roughly $215,000 in debt. That's excluding our mortgage.

[Caller]

What kind of. What kind of debt is it?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So 115,000 of it is student loan. Roughly 50,000 is credit card debt, and then another 48. 5 is a home equity loan. Okay, I know it's horrible. It's horrible.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

About 8,000amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, now, how much was car payments again?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We don't have car payments.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have car debt? She have a home equity loan? So what'd you run all this debt up on? What's it all from?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, full transparency, obviously, that's why I'm calling, is that we bought a new house a few years ago, and obviously we started using credit cards uncontrollably and we did a consolidation loan to pay off credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, that's the home equity loan.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But it didn't cover all of. The home equity loan is to pay off the original debt we had on credit cards. But it didn't cover all of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you didn't stop spending.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're absolutely right. Yes. It was a huge mistake on our part.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what's your home worth?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The home loan is the mortgage. It's 213,000 for the home that we're currently in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And the home equity loan again was what, 48?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Five.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what's the house worth?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

About 375 right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Well, you can work your way out of those two things. How much is the credit card debt again?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

50. Right? At 50.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And you have 115 in student loans?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That is correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How old are you guys?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

48.

[Dave Ramsey]

How do you get $115,000 in student loans at 48? You never paid on them since college?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Honestly, very minimal.

[Caller]

So they've just been hanging around for 20 years?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sorry. Yes. The amount of money we're making now just recently changed, probably in the last five to seven years. Prior to that, the income was very low. And so at the time, I mean, it was. We were just barely making it. And then obviously when the income changed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, when did the income change again?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would say probably in the last five years or so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, but you immediately adjusted your lifestyle up and are spending all of it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Correct. And now we're seeing that we're just, it's, it's out of control. And, you know, obviously we're thinking about retirement, what we're going to do in the next 15, 20 years. And I don't know. It's depressing, to be honest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. All right, the first thing I would do is the two of you, both of you sit down. What are your cars worth?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nothing. They're both 2004. Well, I don't want to say nothing, but they're both 2014 model. I'm gonna say maybe three. Three grand. Three or four gram. I mean, I'm driving a Ford Focus. He's driving a Dodge Charger.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah, okay. All right, all right. So the, the answer to the equation is the problem here is not the credit card debt or the student loan that's been hanging around. The problem is you guys have never in your married life learned how to live on less than you make, and it's caused all of these other things. So the first step is to learn to live on less than you make. Get out all the credit cards and cut them up tonight. And you and your husband sit down and open the EveryDollar budgeting app and fill out a budget that you're going to stick to next month. Then we're going to work extra above the 8,000 and earn some more money. We're going to look around, see what we can sell. We're not going out to eat anytime soon. Like it's going to be three years before you see a restaurant. Unless you're working there. You're not going on vacation. You are broke people. Broke people don't go out to eat and broke people don't go on vacations. You've got to change this cycle. You don't need any clothes. You've got a bunch. You don't need any toys. You got toys coming out your ears. Motorcycles, sea doos, boats, lawnmowers around, any of that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right, then you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think that's why I'm struggling the most.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you've been spending your money on experiences. You've been spending your money on experiences. Those aren't assets, they're problems. But okay, all right, so anyway, so we're going to live on nothing on this budget and we're going to start putting 2000, then 3000, then 4000, then $5000 a month towards these debts. We're going to list them smallest to largest, and that'll be the credit cards. And we're going to attack them in that order. You're never going to use a credit card again in your entire freaking life. If you do, you're going to retire and eat dog food. You have to turn this around. You have to stop this. You've got a 20 year habit pattern that's going to be very difficult to break. And that's why I'm being so in your face.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I need that. We need it. I mean that. We absolutely need it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can do this. I've seen people do it. But the challenge is it's not like we've been married 20 months. And we were stupid. We've been married 20, 25 years doing stupid, so we got to break those patterns. And you're not stupid, but you've been doing some stupid stuff. I'm not stupid, but I've done some stupid stuff. Okay? So we're all in the human race together now. You guys have got to make the decisions to say, that's it. I've had it. We're not living like this anymore. And flip the switch and change right now and start aggressively attacking this debt, smallest to largest, living on a written budget that both of you are in agreement to. And you start making a game, an emotional game out of how much debt we can pay, how little we can buy, and how much debt we can pay and how much debt we can pay. And here's the. Here's the equation, okay? You start paying $50,000 off a year. That's 48,000, or that's $4,000 a month. If you do that, you're debt free in three years, not counting your house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Should we stop?

[Dave Ramsey]

You drove right past that right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I heard you. You said that we could do within three to four years, we could have everything paid off if we start throwing $4,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that means you're living on nothing. Beans and rice, no life. Your friends think you joined a cult. Okay, that's what it's going to take. All right, you hang on. I'm going to give you the book, the Total Money Makeover, and we're going to give you every dollar premium to help you do this. And if you'll get in that dadgum app that we have built that is so freaking powerful, it's unbelievable. It will take you by the hand and walk you guys through it. But the two of you both have to commit to no more buying of anything.

[Caller]

And yes, Amber, to answer your other question, stop investing. Pause it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, Stop investing. For sure.

[Caller]

Pause it. Even though we got a match. You're crazy. You don't have any money.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have any money. You got to free up every dollar you can free up and get this done as fast as you can. Wow. Really scary. But you got to get after it. That's how it works, Dave.

[Caller]

This is. This call, I think is more Americans than we want to believe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it's out.

[Caller]

They don't know what to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

30 years sitting in this chair. Yeah. Every day. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, what are you still doing here?

[Dave Ramsey]

You know the rest of the show's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Happening on the Ramsey network app, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

So you got to jump over there to continue watching.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can download it for free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey Network, it's completely free, and.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you're watching on the app app, you're in luck.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So jump onto the app and let the fun continue.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, go on now. Don't make it weird.

[Caller]

Okay, I got nowhere to go, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, bye. Bye now.

[Caller]

All right, this is getting weird over there, guys. What do we do?