Dumb Debt Decisions Won't Accelerate Your Financial Growth

Summary

Episode Summary: "Dumb Debt Decisions Won't Accelerate Your Financial Growth"

Release Date: May 30, 2025
Podcast: The Ramsey Show
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: Jade Washall

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, Dave Ramsey and co-host Jade Washall address several callers grappling with various financial and personal challenges. The primary focus revolves around making prudent financial decisions, avoiding debt traps, and building sustainable wealth. Below is a detailed summary of each caller's situation, the discussions that ensued, key insights shared by Dave Ramsey, and notable quotes highlighted with timestamps.

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1. Jade Washall from Las Vegas: Navigating Custody and Debt

Timestamp: [00:42] – [05:31]

Issue:
Jade Washall shares her distressing experience of a protracted divorce battle lasting six years, culminating in the loss of custody of her three teenage children to her ex-wife. She faces mounting legal fees and a current debt of approximately $70,000, hindering her ability to regain custody and stabilize her family's situation.

Discussion:
Dave Ramsey empathizes with Jade's predicament but emphasizes the importance of avoiding further debt. He advises her to:

• Avoid Additional Debt: "I don't have an easy answer for you, but ... no additional debt."
• Increase Income and Reduce Expenses: Suggesting selling assets and potentially working multiple jobs to cover attorney fees.
• Focus on Short-Term Gains: Most of the children will age out of the custody battle within a few years, making the financial strain a temporary setback.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [02:58]: "And so the money that you're spending is for three years for a 13-year-old or four years for a 13-year-old."
• Dave Ramsey [05:31]: "We don't need to add to that. So it's going to involve selling things... because I can't think of anything much more important than saving the kids."

Key Insights:

• Prioritize debt elimination even in challenging personal circumstances.
• Consider the temporary nature of certain financial burdens when planning long-term strategies.

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2. Caleb from Chicago: Aspiring to Own a Canadian Fishing Lodge

Timestamp: [10:25] – [19:57]

Issue:
Caleb and his wife aspire to purchase and operate a Canadian fishing lodge, with prices ranging from $250,000 to several million dollars. They seek guidance on securing a down payment, estimating around $100,000, which they believe is insufficient for their goal.

Discussion:
Dave Ramsey critically assesses Caleb's plan, highlighting potential pitfalls:

• Lack of Business Knowledge: Emphasizes the complexity of running a business, especially in a foreign country.
• Financial Risks: Warns against relying on untested algorithms and the high failure rates associated with day trading.
• Practical Advice: Recommends gaining firsthand experience by working at an existing lodge and thoroughly understanding the business before making significant financial commitments.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [15:23]: "You're about 90% dream and about 10% reality."
• Dave Ramsey [16:34]: "It's going to take twice as long as you think. It's going to cost twice as much as you think."
• Dave Ramsey [19:26]: "I don't think a bank's gonna touch us with a ten foot pole, dude."

Key Insights:

• Thoroughly research and gain experience before investing in unfamiliar business ventures.
• Be wary of high-risk investments and recognize the importance of realistic financial planning.

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3. Terry from Montana: Concerns Over Whole Life Insurance Policies

Timestamp: [33:03] – [36:47]

Issue:
Terry seeks advice on surrendering whole life insurance policies purchased four years prior. After hearing Dave Ramsey's criticism of whole life insurance, she faces pressure from her financial planner, who defends these policies as part of Dave's wealth-sharing strategy.

Discussion:
Dave Ramsey vehemently opposes whole life insurance, branding the financial planner as deceptive:

• Critique of Whole Life Insurance: Labels it as "crap" and warns against trusting planners who push such products.
• Advice to Terry: Encourages her to sever ties with the current financial planner and seek independent, unbiased financial advice.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [35:02]: "This is really scary because your financial planner is a crook and a liar."
• Dave Ramsey [35:37]: "She's a crooked faker."
• Dave Ramsey [36:23]: "Whole life life insurance product is crap."

Key Insights:

• Exercise caution when selecting financial advisors and thoroughly vet their recommendations.
• Prioritize term life insurance over whole life policies for financial planning needs.

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4. Sam from Buffalo, New York: Balancing High Income with Responsible Spending

Timestamp: [44:13] – [53:05]

Issue:
Sam and his wife, both physicians earning nearly half a million dollars collectively, have recently become debt-free except for a small car loan and are considering spending $15,000 to $20,000 annually on travel to create memories.

Discussion:
Dave Ramsey supports Sam's desire to enjoy financial success through responsible spending:

• Affordability: With a substantial income, allocating funds for vacations is financially manageable.
• Prioritization: Advises paying off the remaining car loan and maintaining a robust emergency fund before increasing discretionary spending.
• Lifestyle Choices: Encourages intentional spending aligned with personal values and life goals.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [48:24]: "Yes, of course it is."
• Dave Ramsey [49:22]: "That's how you need to learn to look at it."
• Dave Ramsey [50:08]: "Live like no one else so that you can live and give like no one else."

Key Insights:

• High earners can responsibly allocate funds towards personal enjoyment without jeopardizing financial stability.
• Balancing debt repayment with lifestyle enhancements contributes to overall financial well-being.

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5. Nathan from New Jersey: The Perils of Day Trading with Emergency Funds

Timestamp: [54:13] – [58:14]

Issue:
Nathan has developed an algorithm for day trading that he believes yields a 300% annual return. He contemplates using his six-month emergency fund to capitalize on this opportunity, seeking Dave Ramsey's perspective.

Discussion:
Dave Ramsey strongly advises against using emergency funds for high-risk investments:

• High Failure Rates: Cites statistics indicating that 78-97% of day traders lose money.
• Risk of Greed and Desperation: Labels Nathan's plan as driven by irrational motives.
• Alternative Strategies: Encourages investing through stable, long-term avenues rather than speculative trading.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [55:44]: "Is there a Nigerian prince involved?"
• Dave Ramsey [56:07]: "This screams of greed and desperation."
• Dave Ramsey [57:00]: "I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're getting into."

Key Insights:

• Emergency funds should remain untouched to provide security during unforeseen circumstances.
• Avoid high-risk investment schemes in favor of proven, sustainable financial strategies.

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6. Jeff from Charleston, West Virginia: Handling Parent Plus Loans and Family Dynamics

Timestamp: [65:43] – [75:07]

Issue:
Jeff discusses his family's struggle with Parent Plus Loans taken out by his father for Jeff and his sisters' education. His parents express regret over the loans, which have hindered their retirement savings, leading to tension within the family.

Discussion:
Dave Ramsey addresses the ethical and financial complexities of dealing with inherited debt:

• No Legal Obligation: Emphasizes that Jeff and his sisters are not legally required to repay the loans.
• Family Dynamics: Acknowledges the emotional strain caused by guilt-tripping and lack of clear agreements.
• Financial Prioritization: Advises Jeff and his sisters to stabilize their own finances—eliminate personal debt and build emergency funds—before considering any assistance to their parents.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [68:35]: "You don't owe this money. It's a charitable gift."
• Dave Ramsey [73:07]: "So the learning from this way since he took it out is don't be him."

Key Insights:

• Establish clear financial boundaries within family relationships to prevent resentment.
• Prioritize personal financial health before addressing inherited financial responsibilities.

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7. Jacob from Milwaukee, Wisconsin: Managing Side Gigs and Workplace Tensions

Timestamp: [77:04] – [85:35]

Issue:
Jacob seeks advice on balancing side gigs in the events industry with his primary W2 employment. His employer expresses concerns over potential conflicts of interest and the possibility of divided attention.

Discussion:
Dave Ramsey provides guidance on maintaining professional integrity while pursuing additional income streams:

• Transparency and Communication: Encourages Jacob to openly discuss his side gigs with his employer and reassure them of his commitment.
• Business Ethics: Stresses the importance of not compromising job performance or creating conflicts of interest.
• Employer Relations: Suggests that demonstrating dedication to his primary role can alleviate employer concerns.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey [80:14]: "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."
• Dave Ramsey [83:01]: "If you were the employer, you would love it if this young man ... is giving 100%."

Key Insights:

• Open communication with employers about side ventures can prevent misunderstandings.
• Maintaining high performance in primary employment is crucial when engaging in additional work.

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Conclusion

Throughout this episode, Dave Ramsey emphasizes the significance of making informed and responsible financial decisions. Whether dealing with personal debt, investment risks, or family financial dynamics, the overarching message is to prioritize stability, avoid unnecessary debt, and communicate transparently to build a foundation for lasting wealth and financial freedom.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisement segments and focuses solely on the substantive content of the callers' interactions and the financial advice provided.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washall, number one best selling author Ramsey personality is my co host today as we take your calls about your life and your money. The phone number is, call-8825-5225. Hugh is in Las Vegas. Hi Hugh, what's up?

[Jade Weshall]

Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can I help?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm debating on getting in a situation where I may be going further into debt to pay for attorneys to try to take my kids further. But it's kind of been a big struggle.

[Caller]

How long has it been going on and what's the danger?

[Jade Weshall]

It's been going on about six years. My ex wife is a very abusive person. She's psychologically, emotionally and it's affected all of our kids and it's the, the divorce was finalized about a year ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

But took five years to do. A divorce?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Jade Weshall]

Because she wouldn't agree to anything, wanted to litigate, everything had agreements at different points and then she refused to sign the papers. She lied about she's hidden money, just all kinds of stuff.

[Caller]

Who has the kids now? What's the agreement now?

[Jade Weshall]

Right now, just recently the kids were taken away and my, our oldest son was granted guardianship of them.

[Caller]

Taken away from you or taken away from her?

[Jade Weshall]

From both, although I already did not have any custody or contact with them due to other court proceedings that were already ongoing.

[Caller]

How old are they?

[Jade Weshall]

They're gonna think here 13, 15 and 16.

[Caller]

Okay, so you were granted no custody.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your, your, your older son has the three kids and they're safe?

[Jade Weshall]

Yes, for now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Wow. What do you make a year?

[Jade Weshall]

I. About 50,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so the money that you're spending is for three years for a 13 year old or four years for a 13 year old. And by the time it gets to court, the other two probably won't even apply. Right. They're gonna, they're gonna age out.

[Jade Weshall]

It's in court now. Basically I'm trying to.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's, what's in court today?

[Jade Weshall]

Having. Well, it's this whole, the guardianship that my son has is temporary. I'm trying to support him in keeping that, to keep custody away from her, but I'm being told that I may be facing charges soon and all. It seems like these, all these lawyers that are involved have kind of, they want to prolong this fight and I'm the one who doesn't have an attorney, so I'm the target. You know, it's kind of what it seems like.

[Caller]

Why, why you told us that she was abusive and all these different things. Why didn't custody go to you? Are there allegations against you as well?

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you got charges.

[Jade Weshall]

He said the, the court. So I actually filed for full custody of the children at one point and the court refused to have a temporary order hearing and said that instead we would go to actual trial in three months time, I think at that point. And then a few weeks later, my ex wife went and filed for emergency ex parte custody with a bunch of false allegations that she made up. And it was Grant, without me even knowing that, that there was anything going on. I was never allowed to present any evidence against those allegations. It was just assumed that I'm guilty and they were taken away.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so I assume your bank account's dry.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, below dry. Whenever the children were taken from me, I started borrowing large amounts of money to, to hire an attorney to try to get this put back on track.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt do you have today from that?

[Jade Weshall]

Right now, I believe it's right around 70,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Well, what I do when I'm facing these situations is I don't start with debt. I start with no debt. And I figure out how I'm going to handle a very difficult situation without debt. And it's very difficult. I don't have an easy answer for you, but you know, it's going to involve selling things. It's going to involve no additional debt. You've already got 70,000. We don't need to add to that. So it's going to involve selling things. It's going to involve you working six jobs in order to pay attorney's fees. And again, the perspective is this is for a very short window because the vast majority of these kids by the time this gets done are going to age out because once they're 18, this is over.

[Caller]

Yeah. Can I ask what their living situation is there with her brother? Yeah, but like how he's so young. How is he paying? How is, are you sliding money over there? How are they being taken care of?

[Jade Weshall]

He's, he's, he's 28 now, I believe. He's, he's got a good job, he's married, he's got a house, you know, now I, which we haven't even gotten to like. Child support. I, I've been ordered to pay child support for, for quite a while now. I've been Paying that. Which is part of the reason why I've not really, I've not been able to hire an attorney because I'm having to pay almost a quarter of my income in child support. But so I'm trying to get it arranged where now she can be paid the child support by both of us. Both of the parents.

[Caller]

Yeah. I guess what I'm asking you, what I'm asking is, I mean, this is your business also. You called a national show. But my question is, are the kids best with the brother? Is that where they're best? Because if they are, maybe instead of continuing to drag them through this for an. It's already been six years. Right. Can they have some stability and peace for the next, you know, four years of their teen life?

[Jade Weshall]

That's exactly, that is exactly what I want. That's exactly what I'm trying to fight for, is to keep them with him.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Weshall]

Not trying to take them away from him. I'm trying to keep them away from their mother. Continues to fight.

[Dave Ramsey]

I appreciate that.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I think, you know, what we're doing is scratching up nickels out of the corner of the couch in order to try to pull this off. And that's going to be working an extra job and selling stuff. And you've probably already done a lot of that and a lot of the things, you've probably learned more about the legal system than you wanted to know. And so you probably can file some things on your own to try to get some help down at the courthouse. Just somebody teach you how to do it and to redirect the child support to him. That'd be, that'd be an amazing move right there. And then, you know, if you, if you sell your house or you sell your car and you get a cheaper car in order to help save your kids, that's not a bad deal. That's a fair trade. Because I can't think of anything much more important than saving the kids. And wow, what a disaster. What a mess. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You've been through this. Home security can feel like a big investment and you might be thinking, do I really need all that? But here's the thing. Simplisafe gives you peace of mind every time you head out in the morning or lock up at night. And it starts at about a dollar a day, so you really can't afford not to. Your first month is free and there's no long term contract to worry about. And they offer a 60 day money back guarantee. Plus with simplisafe's industry leading active guard, outdoor protection. AI powered cameras can alert monitoring agents to potential threats before they even get to your door. But it doesn't only help prevent break ins. Simplisafe also monitors for fires and floods. So Cy SimpliSafe has been named the best home security system by U.S. news & World Report for five years in a row. And if you're still not sure, this should make up your mind for you. Right now you can get 50% off a new SimpliSafe system with 24. 7 professional [e-mail] that's 50% [e-mail] there's no safe like Simplisafe. Caleb is in Chicago. Hi Caleb, how are you?

[Jade Weshall]

Pretty good. How are you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Jade Weshall]

I appreciate the phone call. So me and my wife, I was looking for some advice. We want to take our family. We have three small children. Our dream is to buy a Canadian fishing lodge and run that from about May to November every year. The issue that I'm running into just because I'm new at this is trying to come up with figuring out how to come up with a down payment for something like that. You know, some of these lodges range from $250,000 to millions of dollars. I'm trying to figure out what's the best way to go about doing something like that.

[Caller]

It depends on how much money you have to spend.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have any money to put a down payment down.

[Jade Weshall]

I mean, I've got, I think I could probably come up with, between me and my wife and, you know, asking my parents for, you know, a small amount to pay back, I could probably come up with maybe around 100 grand. But it seems like that won't take me very far.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Jade Weshall]

Right now I make about 90,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do?

[Jade Weshall]

But I mean, I'm in construction and a job I really don't like. I'm away from my kids, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Canadian fishing lodge?

[Jade Weshall]

No, but I'm really, really good with my hands. Really knowledgeable. Knowledgeable about fishing and hunting. I'd be doing both.

[Dave Ramsey]

And zero knowledge about business.

[Jade Weshall]

Zero knowledge about business. Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

A fishing lodge is 90% business, 10% fishing.

[Jade Weshall]

I'm just going off of what I've talked to. I've got a couple, you know, mutual friends. Now, of course, since I'm in this process of owners up there, I've talked to them and they both, both the ones I talked to are. They've been, they've owned a lodge now for about 10, 15 years. And they didn't do this before, didn't run business before. One of them was in construction, just like me.

[Caller]

Yeah, I, I'll tell you, I don't. I, I've never been to Canadian Fishing Lodge. I don't know what, what that is. Is it something. Do you live on the property? Is it like a bed and breakfast where you live there and you provide, you know, all of this for, for your guests and you're living on the property?

[Jade Weshall]

Yep. We would live on the property with, with our, my family. And what we're looking for, we are not going to provide the American Plan, which is food and everything. It's more of just, you're coming up there, your fishing will take you will guide your fishing trip or guide your hunting trip, show you where to go, stuff like that. But we are not going to provide the American plan, which is all your meals included.

[Caller]

So just play this out with me. So you said these could range from 250,000 plus, right. All the way up to a couple million. So let's just pretend you said, okay, I'm looking at the $250,000 plan. My family lives on the property. I put 100,000 down. So we've got the place, we're living there, and now we're starting to rent out the experience to guests. What, what happens next on your end? Like, what's the next step?

[Jade Weshall]

I guess I don't know what you mean. What do you mean, next step?

[Caller]

So you've got the lodge, you purchase the property. What's the next step? How do you build out the business? How do you get people to come to you? How do you build a problem?

[Jade Weshall]

The next one's. Yeah, there's already an existing customer base on most of them because you're buying a turnkey, but that a lot of the lodges up there for sale are elderly people that are trying to get out and they haven't marketed in years. They don't do online marketing. They're only, they're only relying off of their annual return customer. Like I said, both the people I talked to that have purchased the lodge in the past 10 years said it was really easy to get a lot to, to up their, their customer basis. It was really easy with simple marketing tactics, you know, and what did they earn?

[Caller]

Like, what's their, what's. What do they, what's their net profit? What are they getting out of this?

[Jade Weshall]

I mean, I couldn't ask them that. I'M not close enough to them to ask them exactly what they're earning. But the first, if you want.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you said, I'm going to put $150,000, I'm going to put $100,000 down. I'm going to buy a $250,000 house with 150,000. With 100,000 down, I'm going to have a $150,000 mortgage, and I'm going to start a new business. And I don't know anything about the business other than I know about fishing. And I talked to three people who said it's a good idea. You know, so the elderly people are going to owner Finance the 150 and hope you make a go of it. Okay. Yep. So are you. Are you 27 or 29?

[Jade Weshall]

28.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Almost like I've done this. Okay. And so I'm your old ugly uncle that's 64 that loves you. Okay. You are about 90% dream and about 10% reality. And talking to you.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have no freaking idea what you're getting into. You just think you do. And it's very romantic with rainbows and Skittles and unicorns in your head right now. And when you get up there and get dirt under your fingernails and realize this is freaking mess and what have I gotten my family into? That's about the time you're gonna discover how this really works. So I really would love for you to go work at one for one of these people, operate it for them as a part of the purchase plan before you close on the deal. Like, run it for a year and see the numbers and see what is wrong with this, because the only impression you have is all positive. And there are three rules of business. Caleb, it's going to take twice as long as you think. It's going to cost twice as much as you think. And you're not the exception. Those are the three rules of business. And, you know, the way you're painting this is you are using fantasy language, not reality language. And it scares me for you. I'm afraid you're gonna turn this dream into a nightmare if you're not real careful.

[Jade Weshall]

I'm afraid of that, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

I really want you to get some reality on you in this thing and get under the rainbows and the Skittles and find out what the flip is really going on up there. And, you know, why is it that there seems to be a lot of these for sale? And, you know, there's a problem here. Okay, So I really want to go work up there. I want you to take your family up there on vacation for three weeks. Get find an old couple that wants to sell a 250,001, write down a contract that says I'm going to work for you for a year. At the end of that I'm going to close on this. If I find out things to be the right thing, be the way that you say they are and if I can get financing or if you provide me financing.

[Caller]

And what's it mean for you to be doing business in another country.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now you are an immigrant. I don't know what it means for an America to immigrate permanently and buy a business in Canada. I have no idea how to do that. I do know it's probably more difficult than it was 12 months ago. So you know, you've probably got some issues there. And you know, I really want to understand the business better than you are doing. So the way I always ask myself when I'm going into something as a business person, would I hire me to do that? And if the answer is I don't know what the flip I'm doing, no, I wouldn't hire me to do that, then that tells me not to go into that space until I learn some more about it. And I am 100% sure you don't know what the flip you're doing on this. Well, there's no you can fish, there's.

[Caller]

No numbers around it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't doubt that. But you've never run a business of any kind and you're stepping in this. I'm not trying to be a dream killer. I love killing nightmares though. I love killing nightmares. So I want you to go forward with this slowly, carefully and much more wisely. And then while you're doing that, work like a crazy man and pile up some cash and come up with your down payment and get one of the old people to owner finance it. Because I don't think a bank's gonna touch us with a ten foot pole, dude. And that's probably good for you that they won't. So guys, the wonderful thing about America is that we live in the free enterprise system. And the wonderful thing about america is that 54% of the gross domestic product is brought to you by small businesses. All the goods and services totaled up, over half of them are delivered by businesses. People like Caleb who started something. So I love encouraging the free enterprise systems. I also have spent 20 years coaching over 20,000 small businesses through our Entree leadership brand. And I see all the things that go wrong when you're doing this so you know you're not the exception. It's going to take twice as long and it's going to cost twice as much. Those are the three rules, and they do apply. They apply to me.

[Caller]

You're not the exception.

[Dave Ramsey]

When I get ready to go into. When I get ready to go into, we're going to open an app. We're working on one for Dr. John DeLoney right now. Let me tell you what our projections on that are known as a guess. We have no idea what the stupid app's going to do. And we need to build out our business model as if the thing does nothing. And then when it does something, be pleasantly surprised, you know, and so. And you can get digital advice, but everybody's got a dadgum opinion. They're like armpits. They stink. Oh, my God.

[Caller]

Caleb needs to invest. His first investment needs to be in your book.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me send him one. Send him entree leadership and send him build a business you love. I want you to do this. I want you to do it in such a way, Caleb, that it doesn't kill you. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer. And it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid medical miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y' all, there's a better.

[Caller]

Way to take care of healthcare costs.

[Dave Ramsey]

CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and [e-mail] budget. That's chministries.org budget budget. Jade Washaw is with me. One of our favorite things to do is get to talk to people who are heroes in their own story. They took control of their lives and they come in here into our lobby and they stand on the debt free stage. That's where Colby and Mackenzie are. Hey, guys, how are you? Wonderful.

[Caller]

We're doing great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesome. Where do you live? Chattanooga. Tennessee. Fun. And how much debt have you paid off? $32,000. Yeah. Alright. And how long did this take?

[Caller]

Seven months.

[Dave Ramsey]

You kicked it. And your range of income during that time? $82,000. Yeah. What do y' all do for a living? I am a family ministries youth pastor at a local church in our community. Awesome.

[Caller]

And I just work in employee benefits.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just. Okay, that' pretty good. Very good. So what kind of debt was this? $32,000. It was all school debt. Okay. Wow. All right, so we had a student loan debt. And I'm just guessing, looking at this story, you might have been married about seven months. Yes.

[Caller]

I knew it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, so first order of business when we get married is get rid of whose student loan debt? Mine. Okay.

[Caller]

She said, don't look at me.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. All right. And under door number. I love it. Okay, so before you got married, you realized you had this. And there must have been a discussion at some point during the dating process. Please tell me this story. It's got to be awesome. We were very open about all of these types of things. And her family is a Dave Ramsey family. I mean, she's known these things her whole life. And mine was not. I did not have these principles taught to me growing up. So when I asked her dad, who is also our pastor at our church. So I go, your boss? Yeah, he's also my boss. He's your blood pressure there. Oh, man, that's a double dip. So I go and I go ask him for his blessing. And it was a conditional one that we do premarital counseling and take FPU before we got married. So we decided to do that. And it was life changing. And we sat down and got on the same page on everything. And as soon as we said, I do, we just went gazelle intensity on. Then we did. I do. And I did. Yep. I like it. I like it. So I just. Listening to you and looking at your demeanor, I don't think it bothered you that he put that condition, Colby. Oh, not at all. Not at all. Like, I'm ready. I think we both agree with this, but we wanted to do everything the Lord's way. And I think one of the things that FPU and everything y' all have built here, everything points back to Scripture. Everything points back to, hey, you know, we don't want to be slave to the lender. So for me, that was what it was. I'm gonna do everything the Lord's way. We're gonna do everything the Lord's way. And he'll honor that so, yeah, so.

[Caller]

You had to get started on this. You kinda. You got started on it on your own before you guys got married. And then once you got married, that's when you kind of linked arms on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. We took the FPU course, like, separately. Our coach was amazing, and he said.

[Caller]

Do a hypothetical budget of what it's gonna look like when you get married. We knew what our rent was.

[Dave Ramsey]

We knew what all our utilities would.

[Caller]

Kind of look like. Some things.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's how we were so ready to go.

[Caller]

Day one, we were like, let's get this done. And day one, we started it because we had that hypothetical budget in place. So. So tell us how you got around it, because a lot of times people call into the show and they feel some sort of, like, guilt of, these are my student loans. I feel bad, you know, bringing them into the marriage. She shouldn't have to pay. You know, they've kind of got that separate mentality. How did you guys get around that? Well, I know for me, I did.

[Dave Ramsey]

The Dave Ramsey plan and did.

[Caller]

I went to school completely debt free, put myself through a bachelor's degree. But coming into there was just, honestly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dave Ramsey's like, the FPU course in.

[Caller]

General, that just lined us up on everything. I mean, I know people say, it's your debt, it's my debt. When we got married, we eliminated that because we're better as a team.

[Dave Ramsey]

We attacked it the way we knew we could, which is fiercely and every.

[Caller]

Extra dime going towards it. So that wasn't a problem for me. I don't think that's a problem for either of us.

[Dave Ramsey]

We locked in biblically, too. I mean, you get married, you become one flesh. So for us, everything than is combined, we are one together. And I think when you have that mentality again, when you're going about everything the Lord's way, it all just makes sense. So, you know, it's weird because that's the exact same stipulation I put on my blessing.

[Caller]

It's a great stipulation.

[Dave Ramsey]

I work for Bill and Winston. I said, you know, you got to go through FPU together as pre marriage, and you got to go to pre marriage counseling. And that's all I asked. And you mean I don't have to be out of debt? Nope. You just got to be working on it. And, you know, and they both went.

[Caller]

Ah, yeah, I bet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thought he was gonna be worse than this. Dave. Yeah. I kind of wanted to mess with you, but I just thought I'd tell the truth, so. Yeah. So very cool. You Guys. Well, man, I like your dad. He's a good dude.

[Caller]

He's a big fan of yours.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, way to go, you guys. That's a beautiful way to start everything. And what it amounts to is not just the debt, but what it represented as over the overarching thing in your whole lives is we're going to align on Scripture, you know, pastor's daughter, pastor's employee, we're going to align on scripture, right? And we're going to align on money, and we're going to align on everything else. And so you've set the table for an incredible life. Overall, the money piece is just a little bit of it, but absolutely beautiful. Very proud of y' all. I bet they were all cheering you on, weren't they? They were so excited for us.

[Caller]

They were so ready to see it gone for us. We were so pumped.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's so cool. All right, so you tell people that are thinking about getting engaged, is all of this stipulation, going through the thing and learning together and going to a stupid class and all that, Because, I mean, people roll their eyes sometimes, right? This happens. And so. And rightly so, I understand that. But the. I mean, that young couple out there that maybe are not as enthusiastic as you all were to just dive in on this, talk to them and tell them, is it worth it? And what is your key to getting out of debt? What do you blame getting out of debt on? I would say for the young, soon to be married couple, or the young couple that's about to start life together, when it comes to wanting to be debt free, the freedom that you can feel knowing that there's nothing holding you back anymore, the world's just going to keep getting tougher and tougher. Finding abilities to be a homeowner one day is just going to continue to get tougher and tougher. And instead of going at it with, hey, let me do what everybody else is doing, continue to follow the mania of just going into debt, going into debt, going into debt, be different and trust the Lord. That's the biggest thing. All of this is biblically based. If you look at the Word, the Word does not want you to be in debt. God's created us to be free. He set the captives free, right? So when we have this opportunity to come and say, okay, go at this together, let's not be do ish, right? Let's not. Let's not go somewhere in the middle. Let's go all the way and let's attack life. I'd send my high schooler to his youth group.

[Caller]

Come on, now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Preach it, Pastor. Preach it.

[Caller]

I was holding myself back over here.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like it. That's good, man. Well said. Well said. You're great at your job, I'm sure. I appreciate it. God's call on your life. Excellent, brother. Well done, you two. Well done. All right, Mackenzie, what do you tell people? The key to getting out of debt.

[Caller]

Is just doing it and cutting back, eating out. I'm not. That's one thing we discovered shortly after getting married.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ouch.

[Caller]

Yeah. I learned to cook real quick, and.

[Dave Ramsey]

That changed our budget completely.

[Caller]

So funny. Do everything in your power to get out of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys are so impressive. Budget's a big thing, okay? If you ain't tracking, you ain't trying. That's what our FPU coach would always say.

[Caller]

Can I steal that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Steal it.

[Caller]

I love that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good. You ain't tracking, you ain't trying. I like it. Well, the every dollar app does that. And even more now it so. Well done, you guys. Very proud of y' all. Y' all are superstars. Very fun stuff. All right. Colby and Mackenzie set for life. How old are you two, by the way? 23. Wow. There we go.

[Caller]

Future millionaires.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go. By the time they're 30, Colby and McKenzie, Chattanooga, Tennessee. 32,000 paid off in seven months, making 82,000 as brand new newlyweds. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one.

[Caller]

We're debt free. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And all the old people are going, wish I'd done that my first seven months.

[Caller]

Oh, I know that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

All the old people are going, where was that when I was that age? Oh, my gosh. Really? It was here. It was called common sense back then, too. But wow, what a great start, man. Wow. Powerful.

[Caller]

You ain't tracking, you ain't trying. That's my takeaway.

[Dave Ramsey]

Game on. Game on. Sam, we all know the importance of eating fruits and vegetables, but let's face it, life gets busy, and sometimes we eat stuff we shouldn't. That's where field of Greens comes in. It's a superfood powder made from real organic fruits and vegetables. Mix one scoop with water, and you're good to go. Field of Greens is packed with nutrients designed to support your overall health, boost your immune system, and increase your energy levels. And your doctor will notice your improved health, or Field of Greens will give you your money back. Visit fieldofgreens.com Ramsey to save 20% and get free shipping. That's fieldofgreens.com Ramsey. You want to be Colby and McKenzie. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, wondering where your money's going, your first step is getting on a plan. Our team is hosting a free budget training this month. You're going to learn step by step how to make to and stick to a budget using every dollar. Because if you ain't tracking, what was.

[Caller]

It you ain't tracking, you ain't trying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ain't tracking, you ain't trying. There it is. Plus, you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q and A. We may just make that the new byline for every dollar.

[Caller]

I like it. It sounds like something Chris Campbell would say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y.

[Caller]

He's our every dollar guy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Sign up for free at everydollar.com webinar spots are limited. It is a free budget training. Don't miss it. Terry is in Montana. Hi, Terry. How are you?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Jade Weshall]

So about four years ago, we started meeting with a financial planner, and she talked us into getting some whole life insurance policies for my husband and I. And so we did that. And recently I've been listening to a lot of your show and hearing how you feel about whole life policies. So I gave her a call to let her know that I wanted to cash those out and surrender them or whatever the terminology is for that. And I initially left a message for her. She called me back. And so I. When she called back, I was just like, yeah, I've been listening to Dave Ramsey, and, you know, he's not a big fan of the whole life insurance. So she shot back and said, you know, Dave Ramsey, he has so much whole life insurance. That's how he's planning to, you know, share his wealth with his. With his family and kids when he passes on. And, like, made me feel really bad for even asking to cash out my insurance policies. So, like, now I don't know what to do because I really, like, in my mind, the premiums are due in June. I pay annually. And I was like, well, it really had my heart set on cashing those out, taking whatever money we got from them and maxing out our Roth IRAs for the year.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a lot worse than a whole life life insurance situation. This is really scary because your financial planner is a crook and a liar. A liar? Yeah. That's bad. That would scare me if I were you, because I obviously don't. I obviously don't have whole life life insurance, Terry. That's just completely Asinine. I mean that would be on the front page of the New York Times. Okay, that'd be like Dave Ramsey has a credit card, you know, I mean come on. Or I leased my car. I mean how, what kind of dumb butt would say Dave Ramsey leased his car A crooked. Okay, I don't lease my cars, I pay cash for them, you know, I mean Dave has six credit cards because he likes the air miles. I mean what kind of dumb butt would say something like that? I mean this is not only a crook, it's a dumb crook, a desperate crook, you know and so yeah, every.

[Jade Weshall]

Time we've asked her.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean it's a non starter. Don't let your financial planner be a crooked fire.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fire, right. Get away from her.

[Jade Weshall]

I will.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got to get away from her honey. Because if she lie about this, what else is she going to lie about, Right?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she's not really a financial planner. She's an insurance agent posing as a financial planner. She works for an insurance company, doesn't she?

[Jade Weshall]

No, she works for Thrivent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's an insurance company is it? It's a whole life life insurance company. They're not financial planners, they're whole life life insurance salesmen. Whew. And she's a crook.

[Jade Weshall]

I thought they were financial planners.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, she's a life insurance salesman and so yeah, they're not financial planners. So financial planners represent much many different products. She sells one thrivent and so no, you need to get away from her.

[Jade Weshall]

Cash those out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me just tell you and move.

[Jade Weshall]

My funds away from her.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, you need to go see, go to one of our smartvestor pros or go somewhere else and sit down with someone that is an independent person that can sell mutual funds, can sell insurance, can help you, guide you through this and will not shame you when you get ready to make a decision about your money.

[Caller]

Yeah. Because the thing you have to realize is, and it's not for you to lord this over, but they're working for you. You're paying them a percentage to do a service for you. So you're the one. If there, if there is a balance of power here, it rests with you. They shouldn't be manipulating you. They shouldn't be trying to kind of make it seem like they're the smart one and you're the one that doesn't know what they're talking about. That is the wrong feeling when you're working with somebody, especially with your money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I mean here's the thing. You walk in on A car dealer floor. And they say, you know, you need to lease the car. Dave Ramsey leases car. You don't just say, no, he doesn't. You just say, peace out. I don't do business with crooks that lie. And you walk to somewhere else and you go somewhere else. I walked in to buy a washer and dryer with my wife one time at an electronic store, and the guy tried to convince us to get an extended warranty. And I said, oh, we don't do extended warranties. I'm so arrogant. I thought he recognized me. He didn't. And he goes and says, dave Ramsey gets extended warranties on everything he buys here. And I said, well, I'm pretty sure he doesn't. And he goes, oh, yes, he does. I can show you the file. And I said, I'm pretty sure he doesn't. And I handed him my driver's license. And he said, oh, yeah, that's what he said. Yeah.

[Caller]

Oh, biscuits.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, biscuits. Yeah, that's what he said. And my wife is like. And he's like, oh, we're gonna make you a great deal. I'm so sorry. I'm like, you couldn't give me this whole fre store right now. And Sharon's like, well, we need to. I'm like, sharon, I need to leave here before I say something. And he has a real Dave Ramsey story. So we're going to Lowe's and buy it over there. And so. Oh my God. You know, so this. You just don't do business with crooks, hun, because once they lie to you about one thing, you know they're going to lie to you about something else. Or you don't know when they're lying.

[Caller]

And you're. She's showing that you guys don't have the same values. You said, you made it clear to her, I value Dave Ramsey's opinion. I listen to Dave Ramsey. And rather than really take that to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Heart or just say, you know, I agree with Dave on some things, but I. Disagreement. Here's the points and argue on the merits. Yes, but, you know, but that, that's so. Yeah, but here's what's done. Here's what's interesting. You know, 20 years ago, people said this like whole life agents would say that that's. That's been going around for years. They also say, I own a term life insurance company, which is absolute bull crap. I don't own a term life insurance company, so I would have made a lot more money, but I don't. Xander owns it and he Pays me ad money. I get money. Ad money off of Xander. But they tell this stuff and back then you could get away with it. But now there's this thing people called the Internet and there's this thing called social media and there's this thing called a podcast. And so Terry can call here and actually talk to me and ask. And so if you start lying like this, it's gonna cost you now at a different level than it used to cost you. There was a timeshare place that set up at the local mall and they tell people, Dave Ramsey's got three of our timeshares.

[Caller]

Oh my God.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so our producer went over there with a microphone, Blake, back in the day.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And got him to say it and he said now we're going to put this on the air if you ever say it again.

[Caller]

Yeah, put them on the air.

[Dave Ramsey]

That kind of put an end to that crap. So you know, but it's the same stuff. It's just people. When you got no defense for your crappy product, you lie. You lie. That's what you do. And so. And thrive in whole life. Life insurance product is crap. It's knee deep manure right along with the other whole life products that are out there. So geez, man. Unbelievable. That's so funny though. It's so cute. I mean that they. Did you actually think you could get in this current environment of digital, the digital world we live in that you can just say crap and just get away with it? Of course, everything on the Internet's true. Right?

[Caller]

If you live your life that way, good luck to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you need to find another way to save your sales, like actually logically defend your product line. But when you can't do that because it's such crap, then you have to go to these extremes. And that's just sad. It's just really sad. So Terry, look, when you're looking for a real financial planner, they're going to have the heart of a teacher. Now the smartvestor pros are mutual fund brokers is what they do. They do not work for me. I am not on commission with them. I don't own them. But I recommend them because they have to have the heart of a teacher or they will not be one of the smartvestor pros that we recommend. And they're going to go along with the stuff that we teach here on the air. The four types of mutual funds in your rollover IRAs and your 401ks. I hope you get your kids college funds started. Make sure your Will is intact. And of course, course, you know they're not going to sell you life insurance. If they did, it would only be term. Otherwise they wouldn't be recommended by us. Hello. That's not hard. Wow, this is such a difficult job. Not. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Jade Weshall]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey.

[Caller]

The only reason to not have life.

[Jade Weshall]

Insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch. And.

[Jade Weshall]

Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost.

[Dave Ramsey]

Somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options While you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly. These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man.

[Jade Weshall]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your family can actually have the.

[Jade Weshall]

Opportunity to just be sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, to just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. Jade Washall Ramsey, personality number one, best selling author. She's my co host today. The phone number is 888-255-2225. Sam is in Buffalo, New York. Hi Sam, how are you?

[Jade Weshall]

Hi, Sam. Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Thanks so much for taking my call. Good afternoon. How are you, sir?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Jade Weshall]

So, Mr. Ramsey, I am looking for your permission to be able to spend money and live well while I'm young. Let me provide Some context. My wife and I are both physicians. We collectively make a little under half a million dollars over the last five years. We've been living only off my paycheck and using her paycheck entirely towards her student loans. I did not have any student loans, so we had the luxury of doing that. We recently paid that off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yay. Way to go.

[Jade Weshall]

Yes. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. We're very happy. So we have this new income which we've never used before. For the most part, we live pretty conservatively. I drive the same car that I did in residency and we did buy another car as our family grew. We pay $500 a month on that, and we plan on paying it off by the end of this year. Calendar year. Mr. Ramsey, I. More and more as I'm getting older. I'm 37.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you're ancient. I don't know how you get around.

[Jade Weshall]

And just trying to keep up with you, I suppose I am. The people around us are getting old as well. And we look to them as examples, family and friends. And what I tell you is most of our closest family members are not living the retirement life they thought they would. My father passed away last year after about an illness that took him about a decade to sort of succumb to. And prior to that, over the decade, he was not mostly non ambulatory. My father in law has diagnosed with early onset dementia before the age of 60 and now is in a nursing home. So both my mother and mother in law are living lives that they never thought they would. And I looked to them, and although the sample size is small, I worry about my wife and my health as we get older. As a physician, my paycheck is mostly guaranteed. I mean, I'm licensed in three states. If we lose my job, God forbid, it would not be very hard to find something soon. We have a little over $100,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your question?

[Jade Weshall]

Yes, sir, my question is, is it okay to spend, say, 15, $20,000 a year traveling with my wife, creating memories?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, of course it is.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay. Okay. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't teach people. I don't teach people to live in a cave and collect lint when they make a half a million dollars. Unless you're working on getting out of debt. But you didn't exactly sacrifice when you got out of debt, you were still living on 200 grand while you were.

[Caller]

Getting out of debt and you got a car loan.

[Jade Weshall]

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you went and borrowed money to get a car. So pay this stupid car off and not by the end of the year, dude.

[Caller]

Yeah. How much is.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make? You make like 40,000 bucks a month. Geez.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pay off the car and go on vacation. And go on vacation. $15,000 worth three times a year.

[Caller]

And you don't. And let me also add to that because there was a lot of, like, comparing to other people's lives. And why just this is your life. Like, your life is your life. This is your income. This is what you did about your debt, and this is how you're going to go on vacation. You don't have to justify it by all these kind of like woven in things that you were doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're a doctor, you see sick people all day long. Could that possibly skew your decision making? Of course it could.

[Jade Weshall]

100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So, you know, and so all you see is, you know, all these things. I'm a guy that helps people not avoid bankruptcy. So when I pull up to a stoplight and see a nice car, I see a car payment, you know, I don't see a nice car. So, you know, anyway. All that to say, yes, of course. We teach people baby step. $1,000. Two is out of debt. Everything but the house. That includes your car and your student loan. We're there. Now. Then baby step three is an emergency fund. Three to six months of expenses. I'm guessing you have some money saved for an emergency, Correct? How much?

[Jade Weshall]

I do. Yeah. We have about a little over $100,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe on the car?

[Jade Weshall]

$8,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Pay it off tonight when we get off the phone. Okay. Now. And then you're 100% debt free except your house, right?

[Jade Weshall]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay, now we've got an emergency fund. We're at baby step 4. Start bidding 15% of your household income away towards wealth building and retirement. And then let's start paying off the house. But when you leave baby step three and you are debt free and have your emergency fund, we teach people to move from intense, which is where you don't go on vacation or out to eat, to intentional, which is where you do go on vacation and you do buy a nice car because you make freaking half million dollars a year. You need a good car, don't drive a hooptie, and certainly don't put your wife in a hooptie. And so, you know, and so, yeah, you need to go and you need to spend more than 15,000 on a vacation.

[Caller]

That's what I was going to say, but I didn't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not much Of a vacation for a guy makes a half a million dollars. Okay, you need to do. I want her in a four season. Yeah, put Walgreens or St. Regis. Yeah, I want her. I want her enjoying this. Okay. Which by the way is going to make you enjoy it.

[Caller]

I hope she is listening because you were gonna go take her to Marriott. I know you were.

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, after listening to you, I always want to cover my defenses and you know, I want to make sure that we're able to pay for.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're in great shape. I just want you to do everything on purpose. That's all I want you to do. I want you to look at the whole picture and say I have this much. If I put this much on a vacation, mathematically it's irrelevant. 15 to $30,000 on a vacation when you make a half a million is 8% of your income. It's financially mathematically irrelevant. You could take that much and burn it in the middle of the floor and your life would not change. That's the way. That's the way you need to learn to look at it. It's the burn it in the middle of the floor example, the ratios. Now if you make 30,000 a year and you want to call me and say I'm going to spend 30,000 on vacation intentionally, I'm going to say you're intentionally stupid. Don't do that. Okay? Because that's 100% of your income. No, we're not doing that. But you know, so I.

[Caller]

The hard part I think comes when it's something that clearly your wife values. Experiences. That's a love language, a spending love language she has. Clearly it doesn't seem really be yours. So it's probably harder for you to justify that amount. So looking at it through that lens should make it easier to say, hey, she values this. It's the mathematical side is still what Dave said. But if you can look at it and realize that that's why you don't want to spend the money. It's not because you don't. It's not because it's too expensive.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're exactly right. And here's the thing. We need to make sure everyone hears the message more often. Because he didn't get the message of live like no one else. So that.

[Caller]

So that is the key conjunction.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can live and give like no one else. I'll guarantee you that Sharon and I are leaving in two weeks on a two week vacation and it wasn't 15,000.

[Caller]

I don't want to know how much. It was. I'm. It's going to scare.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't scare the people and live like no one else. And I'm not being snobbish but I mean I've worked my butt off for a long time now. I'm an overnight success, right? So you know, it's a, it's an irrelevant amount of money of course in mathematically in my life. But so live like no one else so that you can live and give like no one else. Increase your generosity too people.

[Caller]

Most phone plans are like bad roommates, unpredictable, always asking for money, hard to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get rid of and they never do the dishes. But Boost Mobile, totally different story.

[Caller]

It's just 25 bucks a month for unlimited talk, text and data. No contracts and no weird hidden charges. Just 25 bucks a month forever. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

The $25 price will never go up. And if you're still skeptical, I get it.

[Caller]

That's why Boost mobile offers a 30 day money back guarantee.

[Dave Ramsey]

So try Boost, you'll love it. Or get your money back. Go to boostmobile.com Ramsey to make the switch today.

[Jade Weshall]

That's boostmobile.com Ramsey restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details.

[Dave Ramsey]

These days the Internet is chock full of so called investing advice from random goobs with zero qualifications. Listen folks, you deserve guidance from someone who knows what the flip they're talking about. That's why I recommend the Smartvestor program. Smartvestors can help you find a professional financial advisor who can teach you to make your own best decisions with your own money. Get [e-mail] smartvestor again ramseysolutions.com smartvestor Ramsey.

[Jade Weshall]

Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is brought to you by why Refi? Some lenders won't touch defaulted private student loans. But why Refi was built for this exact problem. They'll explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate custom built refi for your situation, visit y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter Y R E might not be in all states.

[Caller]

All right, today's question comes from Nathan in New Jersey. He says we have paid off our debts and are working on a six month emergency fund baby. Step three it's been a dream of mine to day trade via algorithms and I believe I have something that is very profitable. Roughly 300% annually. I've done everything I can to test my theory and it it has worked. So I feel the risk of losing is low, however. I know Dave. Just try work with me here. However, day trading requires 25. 25,000 in the brokerage account and it would take about a year to get that capital. How would it be wise. Would it be wise to use the emergency fund as capital for the brokerage fund and only trade with money we have saved? Beyond that 25,000, I would still retain the 7,000 in an easy to get to account in case an emergency happened. Okay, let me tell you why Dave was laughing. Well, first you said that you believe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is there a Nigerian prince involved?

[Caller]

If probably on the other side of this. Meaning it's a scam. My thing is, you know that you need the 25, 000 to test it, which means you really haven't tested it. So you really are just operating off of belief because.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he. He ran. He ran hypotheticals. Yeah, but he pretended with. He ran the numbers as if he had done the investment. He ran the algorithm and the algorithm worked.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which is the worst possible thing that could have happened to him.

[Caller]

Probably, yes. But there's the part of this that it's still day trading and the statistics on this are really, really bad. It's so bad. I think I read one.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was George Campbell, put this in his book. I saw him the other day. I happened to flip up and see him on my Instagram watching George Campbell. Me watching George on Instagram. Imagine that.

[Jade Weshall]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

The number I had, the last piece of research I saw was 78% of day traders lose money.

[Caller]

Interesting.

[Dave Ramsey]

George's recent piece of research he just picked up is if you persist in day trading longer than six months, 97% lose money.

[Caller]

That's what I was going to say. 97%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me help you with that, Nathan. Speaking from the perspective of an algorithm, 97% is all of them lose money over time.

[Caller]

Yes. Which means you're not making money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, this so, honey, you need to find another way to make money instead of trying to beat a system that no one has ever beat.

[Caller]

And especially to put your emergency fund up.

[Dave Ramsey]

That just screams of greed and desperation.

[Caller]

Yeah. Why are you so desperate? That's the question. The question you need to walk away from, Nathan, is why? Why must this happen so quickly for you? What is? Because, like Dave said, what is wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

Inside of you that's causing this? Because something's wrong, honey. Because this is straight up stupid.

[Caller]

It's your family's emergency fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're putting your family stuff at risk here to do something that 97% of people fail At. And you think you found the silver bullet. I'm sorry. Pride comes right before the fall. That ain't happening.

[Caller]

Even if you played it out, even if you're a person listening to this and you're like, well, it's not my emergency fund. I've got some money to play with and I paid all my debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you like burning money, this is a good way to do it.

[Caller]

It's pretty good.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can just completely set it on fire in the middle of the floor. I'd rather buy a car that goes down in value to nothing. At least I get some fun out of it.

[Caller]

I'd rather go to Las Vegas. At least that's more fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not that fun. Losing money is just not fun. There's nothing hilarious about it.

[Caller]

Really. Like when the table's hot. Dave, come on. You get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You get a. Dave, don't. Come on. You and Rachel can go play craps. All right. Dave, don't play craps. So I just worked too hard for my money because I noticed that the furniture and the chandelier right above that crabs table is really nice. And I know who paid for that. Losers. That's who paid for that.

[Caller]

So it's entertainment, dude.

[Dave Ramsey]

The people, the inner people. Entertained. Are you not entertained? Yeah, that's it. So there we go. Yeah. Not. That's. Nathan, honey, this is. This is. You know, you need to. The. The rule for building wealth is those that can delay pleasure. The ability to delay pleasure is an emotional sign of maturity. And so this very email screams that you're 19.

[Caller]

Indeed. Or a very immature 30 or 40 something who's trying to make even worse.

[Dave Ramsey]

Even worse. Yeah. You're functioning at a 19 year old level. So. Yeah. This is. One definition of maturity is the ability to delay pleasure. Every time I read the book the Tortoise and the Hare, the hare never wins. And you just described the game of the hare. Real investors invest steadily over a long period of time and they are the ones that systemically build wealth. A high probability of becoming a multimillionaire by investing steadily over time, not looking for a magic bullet, not trying to find an algorithm or a Nigerian prince, and certainly not pledging your emergency fund to be an investment. Because then you become the emergency. So why. You know what happened there, Jade? I just realized it, Kelly. You did this, didn't you? This is our. Our team set us up.

[Caller]

Why do you think they did that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Because they knew that I would be. I would go off.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

On this. I mean, it's like this Is. This is so dumb. They knew I would lose my stuff on it. Yeah. So. Yeah, that's exactly. This is.

[Caller]

I feel like you kept. I hope. I hope it's pretty good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nathan's actually real and they didn't just make this up. No, they don't make them up.

[Caller]

No, they don't make them up up.

[Dave Ramsey]

But they do go through and try to find something to get Dave riled up. I know they do that. I mean, this is Dave riled up meeting. It's our production meeting.

[Caller]

This is Tik Tok, though. This is what everybody's telling you to do, you know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Going to the moon.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, let me help you. There's not much life lessons on Tik Tok you ought to follow. Jeff's in Charleston, West Virginia. Hey, Jeff. What's up?

[Jade Weshall]

Hey, how you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks for taking my call, Dave. Sure. How can I help?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm with some recent shakeups at work, I'm a little concerned that I'm putting too much money into retirement. I'm 45 and I'm putting around 20%.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have a house mortgage?

[Jade Weshall]

No, I rent. I have a house fund that I hope to buy a house outright when I pull the trigger on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we would tell people at your stage, I assume you have no other debt.

[Jade Weshall]

No other debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If you have an emergency fund, we would tell people you're at what we call baby state step four, and you would be putting 15% of your income into retirement, and the rest of it would be going in your house fund.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm gonna beef up the house fund a little bit, which could convert to an oh, crap fund if I lost my job.

[Jade Weshall]

Which is kind of why I've been paying a little closer attention to the retirement account lately.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Now, you're not gonna lose the 401k, you understand? You own it. Even if they go belly up, that doesn't affect your 401. Right.

[Jade Weshall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're safe on that part. But, yes, I'd be putting 15% away, and I'd be putting the rest of it in the house fund. And in the worst case scenario, it becomes an extra large emergency fund.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay. Okay. Do you think I should still go straight the 401k route? You know, because I've always looked at Roth IRA.

[Caller]

Does the company offer a match five?

[Jade Weshall]

Yeah, I get a 5% match.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get it while the getting's good.

[Caller]

Match is free money. And then after, you can invest up until the match. And then if you Want to reach over and do a Roth ira? You could do that and max that out. And then if you still have money left, then you could come back to the, the, the 401k.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the total of all of that is no more than 15% of your income in a year.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay. Okay.

[Caller]

And if you're, if you have, if you have it both ways in your 401k is, has a match and it's Roth off. I would just stay there and max that out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Agreed.

[Jade Weshall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Weshall]

Because I was just kind of wondering because it feels like that's going to grow to such a significant retirement. 401k that I can't touch for another 15 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you'll be okay. My house? Yeah. You look over there and see a million dollars in there. It won't piss you off. You'll be okay.

[Caller]

It'll be very happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's how millionaires are born. Right there you just heard it. You heard the birth. Did you hear the egg crack? That was the beginning of a millionaire. Right. Then there's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting. But you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner. You can rely on Churchill Mortgage.

[Caller]

Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Make the move from renting to home ownership. Wisely, Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage.

[Caller]

Payment will be a consistent, manageable part.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of the your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into.

[Caller]

A baby steps millionaire.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get started on the American dream of.

[Caller]

Home ownership [e-mail] that's churchillmortgage.com hey, folks.

[Dave Ramsey]

How would winning $5,000 in cash change your life? This month we're giving $5,000 to one grand prize winner and we're giving away a $500 prize every week. In May, it takes less than 15 seconds to enter. No purchase is necessary, and you can enter daily. To increase your chances of winning, enter the Ramsey cash giveaway until May [e-mail] giveaway. That's ramseysolutions.com giveaway. Renee is in New Orleans. Hi, Renee.

[Jade Weshall]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Jade Weshall]

I have a question. About Parent Plus Loan. My dad took it out for me and my two older sisters, and I've since graduated. This was 16 years ago that I graduated. But anyway, they're kind of. My parents are getting to retirement now, and it's basically like they're. My dad always finds a way to throw in there that, like, he's paid on these Parent plus loans, like, our whole lives, and just, like, saying that it's the reason that he's broke and that he doesn't have money for life insurance, and he's, you know, feeling the pinch of, like, retirement. And I basically don't know what to do because I don't really know how much he owes. It's all, like. He just likes to throw it in there and kind of like he's upset about it. But my mom won't let us pay them because basically all three of my sisters, if we can't all pay, she doesn't want any of us to pay them back.

[Caller]

What was the. What was the original idea? Was the idea we're taking out these Parent Pl. Parent plus loans so you all can go to school and this is our gift to you, or was it said from the beginning, we're taking these out in our names, but you guys are paying them? Was there a agreement? Do you remember?

[Jade Weshall]

So it's been a long time, and I don't really remember what the agreement was for me, but I know for my oldest sister, I just recently talked to her about it. My oldest sister, who's eight years older than me, she said that when she. When they first did it for her, it was kind of like, we'll pay for the Parent plus loan while you're in school, but then after that, we want you to pick up the payment.

[Caller]

So did she pick up the payment?

[Jade Weshall]

She did for, like, maybe a year. And then when she got married and she had a baby, like, my parents kind of just like, relieved her of that responsibility.

[Caller]

So there's. It's a gray area, is what you're saying. It's a little different for everybody, right?

[Jade Weshall]

And then my other sister did the same thing. She paid for a little bit after she graduated. But then since my oldest sister wasn't paying, my parents were like, well, it's not fair for us to make you pay. And so she stopped paying. But, like, by the time it got to me, none of them were paying, so they never made me pay.

[Caller]

Do you know? And if you asked how much they are, dad, how much. How much are they? Would he tell you?

[Jade Weshall]

You. The thing is, he Consolidated them and stretched them out over this long period of time. Which is why, like, it's also hard to pay because.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have a total amount?

[Jade Weshall]

I think it's in the 40,000 range for all of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And so do you and your sisters have 15,000?

[Jade Weshall]

We do not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then the discussions are relevant. Honey, you don't have the money. Your dad signed up for this, and.

[Caller]

He regrets it, and he's.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he feels bad, and he's not much of a. I mean, I gotta tell you, I'm pretty disappointed in him for guilt tripping his own kids after it was a decision he made. Be a man of honor. Eat your broccoli, buddy. You signed up for this trip. Don't dump it on your kids every time they come over for Thanksgiving. Or don't be shocked. They quit coming over for Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving. They're going to get tired of you.

[Jade Weshall]

It has, like, pushed us away, you know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Nobody likes being a travel. Nobody likes hanging out with a travel agent for guilt trips.

[Caller]

Now, there is a side of this, and I'm in no way putting this on you, but I'm putting myself in your position. If my dad had done this, and I was hearing about it, me being who I am today or even back then, I might be interested in figuring out, okay, how much did you take out? It was my education. What is it that I'd want him to do?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, if it's 40 today, I would just take it by three, which is 15 grand, roughly 12 grand, you know, and just write a check and hand that to him.

[Caller]

Exactly. I'm clear. I'm done.

[Dave Ramsey]

You talk to the other two.

[Caller]

And that's. I mean, I'm not saying you.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make? You're in your 30s. What do you make?

[Jade Weshall]

I make 50,000 a year. Or 50 to 60.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you married?

[Jade Weshall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your husband?

[Jade Weshall]

He's about the same.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you guys make $125,000 a year?

[Jade Weshall]

Yes.

[Caller]

You have other debt?

[Jade Weshall]

Our house. And we're expecting a third baby on the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you don't have to die. You don't have any money.

[Jade Weshall]

I have. I do have a car note right now. Other than that. Like. Yeah. Oh, 26 on that. But.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good Lord.

[Jade Weshall]

Besides the car note and. The. The car note and the house, we're good. And we do have a savings, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is in your savings?

[Jade Weshall]

Like 3,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're not good. You're broke. You're your dad looking for the same thing to happen in a few years. Okay, so you guys need to get your ass crap together. Get this car paid off or get it sold. Get you an emergency fund built, and then you can have a discussion about whether you want to reach over and help your parents. But today, you don't have a legal or a moral obligation in what you've told us. There's no ethical obligation here. It would be a gift, which is what Jade is describing. She would do. If you get yourself in a good, strong financial position and you want to give someone a gift that's related to this discussion, that's fine. But this is a charitable gift. You could write charity on the four line of the check if you wanted to, because you do not owe this money.

[Caller]

You really don't. And the only reason I was saying it is if you thought there was some way. Because I'm thinking, this, my dad, this is eroding our relationship. If there's some way that I. I feasibly can kind of take this into my own hands, that's something I would do. But you don't have to. And it's not to say that it would even.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you don't until you don't have a car payment and you have an emergency fund.

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And have a baby. You know, you got three things going on here that need money long before your dad gets any.

[Caller]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, I just want you. I want to set you free from his guilt trips. He's not very honorable to do that. It's sad that an old man does that to his kids, his three daughters. And they do it all the time, though. And he's playing victim. He's playing victim for a trip he signed up for.

[Jade Weshall]

But the learning from this way since he took it out.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's been this way since he every. It's all in all other parts of his life, too. You're not the only place that he blames someone else for his own stupidity.

[Caller]

But the learning that you can take from this today is don't be him. Don't be him. So you today have a situation that you need tending to, which is your own finances. So that when your baby gets old enough to go to college, you're not taking out, you know, parent plus loans. And so that when you're that age, you can look up and feel good about how you've managed your finances instead of pulling load off and blaming off on everybody else. So this is your learning from this.

[Dave Ramsey]

So number one, if you never pay it back, that's fine. Number two, definitely don't pay it back until you don't have a car payment. Deliver this baby successfully and have more than $3,000 in an emergency fund. Okay. You need a three to six month emergency fund. You need zero debt, except your house. And then if you want to save up 12 grand, additionally, you and your husband agree on that. You do that in your budget and you want to throw it at them as a gift, that's fine. If you never pay him, that's perfectly okay with me. I'm really good with that.

[Caller]

Me, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

The only reason I would have you pay him is for you, not for him. He is not deserving. I'm pretty disgusted with him right now. Now. So, I mean, I can't imagine I'm 64, looking at my grown kids in their 30s and going. I mean, wuss.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Unbelievable. My kids would look at me and go, who are you? You know, and because it just wouldn't happen. I don't know whether it's hillbilly honor or what it is. I just have too much pride.

[Caller]

Yeah. That's what I'm wondering.

[Dave Ramsey]

On your kids, it's a lack of honor.

[Caller]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just a problem. So I just. She. Yeah. We got a manhood crisis in America. Open phones at Triple 8-825-5225. You jump in. There's one way to solve all that. By the way, no student loans.

[Caller]

Yeah. How about that?

[Dave Ramsey]

How about looking at these three girls when they're 17 and go get a job and go the community college?

[Caller]

Go to a state school.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hello. You can't go over there. You can't afford it. We don't have the money, and I'm not going in debt. You're up a creek, kiddo. You're going to have to figure it out. That. I like that answer.

[Caller]

I do, too. Parents are not required to pay for college, and they're certainly not required to go into debt for it. But you are required to have a conversation early on about what the expectations are. And the expectation is there's no debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so go to school. You can afford that. We'll help you when we can. And that you can work while you're in school, by the way, it's not child abuse. And you can get some scholarships and you can go to a state school because nobody really cares where you went to school. All they care is you actually learned something. That's all they care. You never hired a doctor based on where he went to school. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase, like a home or car. But it's also a Good idea to put in the work. Searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey Trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you [e-mail] insurance if you're tackling debt or building wealth or both, it can get. You can often forget about one of the more important steps to reaching those goals, and that's defense while you're playing offense. That's called insurance. Having the right coverage, whether it's too little or too much, can impact how long it takes to get out of debt and build wealth. Skimping on insurance might seem like saving, but when life happens, then it's easy to fall back into debt. Without the right safety net, the right insurance acts as a shield. The wrong insurance acts as a drain on the checkbook. So go to ramseysolutions.com checkup and take the free coverage checkup. Or click the link in the description on YouTube or on podcast and take the free coverage checkup. Jacob is with us in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hi, Jacob. How are you?

[Jade Weshall]

Not too bad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks for your time today, Dave. Appreciate it. Absolutely. What's up? My question for you is. I've been taking side gigs from my.

[Jade Weshall]

W2 employer, and I'm transparent about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

But there is some tension between me.

[Jade Weshall]

Taking those side gigs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait a minute. You're taking side gigs? What now?

[Jade Weshall]

I'm taking side gigs in addition to my W2 job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Why would that create tension?

[Caller]

Is it the same type of work?

[Jade Weshall]

Yes, same type of work. For context, I work in the events industry and it's for my old employer, too, so that might be point of contention, but.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your girlfriend ain't cool with you hanging out with the ex? Kind of. Yeah.

[Caller]

Can understand that.

[Dave Ramsey]

But there's. Are you taking. Are you taking money out of your employer's pocket? No, I'm currently salaried and every time I go out. No, I mean. I mean, are you. The business that you're doing with them, is it harming your employer?

[Jade Weshall]

No, I'd argue it helps, actually, because we could be a supplier for them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So in other words, it's not. It's not a. It's not competing, you're not assisting the competition.

[Jade Weshall]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is not the case. Okay. And you're. So you're not taking clients away from your. The guy you're working for is not taking clients away, nor are you taking clients away from your current Employer.

[Caller]

It's not the same gigs your current employer could have gotten.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so are you not getting work done when you're at your main employer because you're screwing off with the other spot stuff? That is his fear.

[Jade Weshall]

That's not the case right now. He thinks that might come to be that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Weshall]

But I see it as a revenue generating opportunity for our company as long as. As well as myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's. Yeah, it's mainly you that we're concerned about. And listen, you got to give 110% while you're on the job to. To relieve that concern. Okay, so here's. Here's. Here's the thing. The reason I'm asking all these questions and. Jay, we talk about this all the time. Business ethics is fairly easy. You don't need a whole semester course in college on business ethics. Let me help you with business ethics. Treat other people like you'd want to be treated. Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. So reverse positions. You have an employee working for you that is working for his ex employer on the side. It adds revenue, maybe, but it helps the employee. He's got a good side gig. But you're a little bit worried that he's taking his eye off the ball while he's at work. That's you. You just switch places with your boss. Okay.

[Jade Weshall]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, you know, you solve all the problems, then that's. And so if you're not being unethical is the answer to your question. And no, you're not wrong morally. And the other reason that tells me that is you've been open with your employer, but you didn't try to hide it. Here's what I would say, okay? If you were the employer, you would probably. If you switch places with your boss. You with me, Jacob?

[Jade Weshall]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

You would love it if this young man that's a go getter walked into your office and said, hey, I hear you loud and clear that you're worried about me taking my eye off the ball over here. I'm gonna pledge to you that I put in an extra level of effort to prove against that concern. If you see me doing anything different, would you please come to me immediately? Cause I want to honor your concern.

[Jade Weshall]

Absolutely. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, if you heard that and you were the boss, you would go, I like this kid.

[Caller]

This guy's got it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm.

[Jade Weshall]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. In a world, does it ever make sense to roll that into the company.

[Jade Weshall]

Itself and bill my time through them?

[Dave Ramsey]

No. What about taking? Because it's not A product line that your employer has now, you just created competition. Okay? No, it's just. You just change the. You change the product mix of your current employee. He does not offer this service now. And now you rolled it in, and now he offers the service. So you've complicated it. No, you just. You got a side gig. Take the side gig. You know, and sometimes these guys, some guys, a small business owner, so personally insecure that they're going to just lose their crap in spite of you being honorable. And that's a possibility with your current boss, right? I don't think so, but maybe. Okay, but I mean, it's always a possibility. I mean, but. But I've had a lot of different things where we've had team members. As long as they're not taking money out of the mouths of my children over here, I, you know, I'm fine with the side gig. I'm perfectly fine with that. With most positions now, I'm not fine with Jade doing a side gig because she's got one gig. It's this thing that's a little different.

[Caller]

On Flex. It's a problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The demands on a Ramsey personality as a brand would be different. She'd be lending her brand to someone else, and that would not be okay because it's one of. It's our brand, and we've done it together, she and I and our team. And so that would not be cool. But if, you know, one of our guys who does video work wants to do some video work for somebody, as long as they're not in our space, I. That's their business. They can go do that. I mean, it's not a problem. So just, you know, business ethics really take a. Take a hot second and really reconstruct the other side and step into their body. Do a body snatcher thing and go, okay, I'm looking at Jacob through the eyes now of a different person not trying to defend my position. And if you can walk a mile in their shoes and it still feels cool, you're probably okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. Agree and ask the question, have I done anything so far that's made you feel like I'm giving 100%?

[Dave Ramsey]

If I do, please let me know immediately.

[Caller]

100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm pledging to you to honor this relationship by pouring on some extra.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gas.

[Caller]

You know, I think a lot of employers don't like that, though. They don't like somebody well, because they get.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because they get moonlighting, they get bifurcated. They. They cannot get. Keep from doing their side job while at work. Which is stealing.

[Caller]

That is because you're. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm paying you to work and you're not working. Instead you're working on the other stuff that makes you money.

[Caller]

You can't do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's stealing. Okay, so that's unethical.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's why a lot of people don't do it. Because sometimes the person doing the side gig doesn't have the discipline to keep them clearly separated.

[Caller]

Remember during COVID when people were just. Just applying for two full time jobs because it was work from home?

[Dave Ramsey]

Remember when they still do that?

[Caller]

I need to stop doing that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I talked to a developer the other day.

[Caller]

Oh, gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

He was telling me a lot of friends in the software engineering business, they have three full time jobs.

[Caller]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they work from home and they get paid three salaries and that's just straight up theft, Boys and girls, man.

[Caller]

There's no way. There's no way you can do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You can't work three eight hour shifts. That's you. There's sleep involved here and food and showering and so forth. Hypothetically. And so. Yeah. Yeah. That's just.

[Caller]

You would think there'd be an AI program for that. That when you're hired, you can see if somebody's already like working their job. There's a business idea for someone.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're welcome. I. I solved it. You know how I solved it?

[Caller]

How'd you solve it?

[Dave Ramsey]

We work from work.

[Caller]

Oh, there you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

That solved it. If you're here, if you're here, we figure you're working. If you're not here, we figure you're not working. And that's kind of how it works.

[Caller]

That works.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's got this big, beautiful building. It's got a wonderful cafeteria and a lot of really smart people you can hang out with. Yeah. We work from work and then we actually work. Whoa. It helps you keep your leadership insights right here. I'm just saying. Deep thoughts for. From Dave.

[Caller]

A new segment. A new segment on the Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like a bad Saturday Night Live skit. Oh, my goodness gracious. Yeah. That's a good question, Jacob. And you know what I love about your question is that you have the integrity to be concerned about it.

[Caller]

That's good. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that is. That's a good sign. You're going to do well, sir. You're gonna do well, young man. Proud of you. This is the Ramsay show.

[Caller]

Hey, what are you still doing here?

[Jade Weshall]

Here?

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, the rest of the show.

[Caller]

Is happening on the Ramsey Network app, right? So you got to jump over there to continue watching. You can download it for free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just go to your app store, type.

[Caller]

In Ramsey Network, it's completely free, and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. So if you're watching on the app, you're in luck. But if you're watching anywhere else, this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Show is over for you.

[Caller]

So jump onto the app and let the fun continue.

[Jade Weshall]

All right, go on now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't make it weird.

[Caller]

Okay, I. I got nowhere to go, so you need to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, Bye. Bye, now. All right, this is. It's getting weird over there, guys.

[Jade Weshall]

What do we.