Dumb Financial Decisions Stunt Your Financial Growth

Summary

The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Dumb Financial Decisions Stunt Your Financial Growth
Date: October 15, 2025
Host(s): Dave Ramsey, George Kamel
Podcast Network: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show challenges listeners to face the hard truths about their financial decisions—especially the “dumb” ones that can stunt financial growth. Through unscripted calls, Dave Ramsey and co-host George Kamel provide candid, often tough-love advice to listeners wrestling with student loans, debt, family financial conflicts, and the emotional baggage tied to money missteps. Their goal: show how, regardless of past mistakes, it’s possible to take control and redirect your financial future.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Taking on Major Student Loan Debt Before Starting a Family

• Caller: Josh from Alabama ([00:42-07:25])
• Situation: Josh and his fiancée are considering accumulating $200,000 in student loans for her to become a CRNA, right after marriage and as they start a family.
• Advice: Dave and George warn against banking on future income that depends on everything going as planned. Life is unpredictable—possible graduation hiccups, family emergencies, or changes of heart can upend assumptions.
  • Dave: “If we have two dreams that are in conflict, it's called a nightmare.” ([03:10])
  • George: “You guys have a baby. She looks in that baby's eyes, says, 'I want to stay home.' And you go, 'Honey, we’re $200,000 in debt.'” ([02:30])
• Bottom Line: Don’t go into debt banking on a best-case scenario—find alternative paths to fund education or delay big financial leaps until your life stabilizes.

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2. In-Law Boundary Issues & Joint Property

• Caller: Jacob from Tennessee ([09:50-18:50])
• Situation: Jacob’s girlfriend’s mother is using an acre of family land as leverage in their relationship due to perceptions about Jacob’s spending.
• Advice: Dave and George stress: Don’t combine finances or property before marriage. Address root causes of the mother’s distrust—either a real issue exists, or there’s undue interference.
  • Dave: “You should never buy a house or build with someone you’re not married to. So your plan sucks.” ([12:57])
  • George: “If she’s not defending you...this relationship’s not going to pan out.” ([16:33])
• Bottom Line: Don’t let family involvement (or misplaced gifts) complicate your relationship. Get alignment with your partner and keep boundaries clear.

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3. Launching Adult Children Successfully

• Caller: Jim from New York ([20:48-26:59])
• Situation: Jim’s 20-year-old son has saved $60k by living at home and working a skilled trade. When should he move out, and should he buy or rent?
• Advice: Living independently accelerates maturity. Rent with roommates to learn life skills before owning.
  • Dave: “He’ll become a man faster if he doesn’t live in his mama’s house.” ([22:44])
• Investment Guidance: Start learning about investing with a SmartVestor Pro, but postpone major investments until after moving and stabilizing.

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4. Classifying and Attacking Business vs. Personal Debt

• Caller: Chelsea from Pennsylvania ([27:06-29:48])
• Situation: Confused over which debts to pay first—$16k personal, $20k business (personally guaranteed).
• Advice: Treat business debt in your personal name as personal debt—tackle both before investing.
  • Dave: “You have $36,000 in consumer debt, kiddo.” ([28:47])
• Execution: Use “gazelle intensity”—cut lifestyle, boost income, and make sacrifices for rapid payoff.

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5. Learning From Repeated Car & Life Mistakes

• Caller: Logan from Indiana ([32:57-41:37])
• Situation: Logan’s history is a string of car financial disasters, and he’s living at home with lots of vehicles and a $46k auto loan (on a car his mother drives).
• Advice: Time to simplify and sell vehicles, pay off debt, and become independent—stop repeating the same mistakes.
  • George (joking): “Ever tried riding a bicycle? This might be the solution.” ([35:03])
  • Dave: “If the word car shows up anywhere in your brain, run away.” ([40:19])

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6. Marital Discord Over Money (Spouse with Out-of-Control Spending)

• Caller: Katie from Wisconsin ([65:08-70:53])
• Situation: Husband is draining emergency savings and won’t stop spending.
• Advice: Temporarily move funds to separate, secure accounts. Strongly recommend marriage counseling as behavior indicates deeper issues.
  • Dave: “So it sounds like you guys are going to enter marriage counseling or your marriage is going to end.” ([66:06])
• Action: Freeze your credit to guard against debt taken in your name without your knowledge.

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7. Major Life Transitions: Divorce, Childcare, and Single Parenting

• Caller: Catherine from Texas ([43:28-52:26])
• Situation: Served with unexpected divorce papers after buying their “forever home.” Unsure how to proceed on finances and retirement with two young kids.
• Advice: Seek facts immediately—meet with an attorney, get full financial picture, and make calm, math-based decisions despite emotional upheaval.
  • Dave: “Knowledge is power. Facts are your friends.” ([47:15])

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8. “Should I Invest… or Pay Off Debt First?” (Midlife Crisis Car, Book Buyout, Spec Houses)

• Multiple Calls ([54:24+])
  • Ray from Miami: Wants to buy a $50k Bronco—pay cash or invest instead? ([54:24-57:22])
    • Don’t finance. Wait until net worth is $1M before buying new; buy used.
  • Adam from Texas: Receives $1.3M company buyout. Should he pay off mortgage or invest? ([111:58-115:16])
    • Yes, pay off your mortgage and all debt. Enjoy a little, save a lot, invest wisely.
  • Chris from Florida: Wants to continue building spec houses but is out of cash—should he mortgage his home?
    • Sell rental property instead, keep your risk low, and use cash to maintain flexibility and peace.

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9. Navigating Family Money Nightmares (Joint Homeownership with Gambling Relatives)

• Caller: Ariel from California ([75:56-81:36])
• Situation: Considering paying off a father-in-law’s $50k credit card debt (due to problematic spending) to avoid house lien risk after his passing.
• Advice: Paying off debt won’t fix root issues; the problem will repeat if spending habits don’t change.
  • Dave: “The only way out…is to sell the house and everybody take their money and go to their corner.” ([76:49])
• Bottom Line: You cannot “fix” habitual misbehavior with financial bailouts.

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10. Finding Hope from the Bottom (Welfare and Near Homelessness)

• Caller: Mary from Arizona ([97:56-105:21])
• Situation: On housing assistance, making $300/month as a caregiver for her mom, and facing homelessness.
• Advice: The only path forward is creating more income—even with health limitations. Use any public assistance as a bridge, not a crutch.
  • Dave: “The core answer to your overall problem is income. Right. Work.” ([100:50])
  • George: “You can’t do the baby steps on $2 an hour.” ([104:41])
• Resources: Ramsey team offers “Finding the Work I’m Wired to Do” and “The Proximity Principle” books for direction.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dave Ramsey on conflicting life plans and debt:
  “If we have two dreams that are in conflict, it's called a nightmare.” ([03:10], addressing conflicting aspirations between a career and starting a family)

• Dave Ramsey on family alignment and divorce:
  “Number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. If you’re not aligned on money going into a marriage, you have a problem.” ([07:25])

• George Kamel on dealing with meddling in-laws:
  “If she’s not defending you and just letting you roll over and take it, this relationship’s not going to pan out.” ([16:33])

• Dave Ramsey, blunt on repeat car drama:
  “If the word ‘car’ shows up anywhere in your brain, run away.” ([40:19], to a caller whose finances are repeatedly destroyed by car purchases)

• Dave Ramsey on marital boundaries and money:
  “You need to move the money into your name and you need to see a marriage counselor. Hopefully you can start getting some tools on how to deal with him.” ([67:05])

• George Kamel on protecting funds from a reckless spouse:
  “Freeze your credit because my fear is this guy starts taking out debt, and your name’s attached to it.” ([69:28])

• Dave on renters vs. homeowners leaving home:
  “He’ll become a man faster if he doesn’t live in his mama’s house.” ([22:44])

• Dave Ramsey on long-term financial independence:
  “The only dumb thing is I signed up for a big old pile of debt thinking it was always gonna work out, and the borrower is slave to the lender 100% of the time.” ([06:14], sharing his own turnaround story)

• Dave Ramsey’s simple math for wedding planning:
  “We need $13,000 in savings for those two things. We have $5,000. So we need eight. $1,000 a month for eight months gets us there, and we have 12 months.” ([108:07])

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [00:42] Student Loan Dilemma for CRNA School (Josh)
• [09:50] Dealing with In-Laws, Money & Property (Jacob)
• [20:48] Helping Adult Children Leave Home Well (Jim)
• [27:06] Paying Off Business vs. Personal Debt (Chelsea)
• [32:57] Repeat Car and Life Financial Mistakes (Logan)
• [43:28] Navigating Divorce & Immediate Financial Survival (Catherine)
• [54:24] Midlife Car Purchase vs. Investing (Ray)
• [65:08] Spouse with Out-of-Control Spending Ruining Marriage (Katie)
• [97:56] Breaking From Welfare with Minimal Income (Mary)
• [111:58] What to Do After a Big Payout/Buyout (Adam)
• [116:35] Building Spec Homes—Debt or Pay-as-You-Go? (Chris)
• [75:56] Paying Off In-Law’s Debts to Protect Inherited Home (Ariel)

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Tone

• Direct, often blunt, but always compassionate.
• Dave and George use humor to lighten hard truths, but never sugarcoat the stakes.
• Candid, practical, “no excuses” but empathetic to callers in real distress.

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Conclusion

This episode is a deep dive into financial decision-making—where mistakes come from, how to course-correct, and why emotional alignment with loved ones is just as crucial as math. Whether sharing their own hard-earned scars or offering steps for hope and action, Dave and George deliver a message anyone can use: You can change your financial destiny, but only if you take honest stock of where you are and leave dumb financial decisions behind.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. George Camel, number one best selling author, Ramsey personality and my co host. My co host today Josh is with us in Alabama. Hey, Josh, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing well. How about yourself? Better than I deserve, sir. What's up?

[Caller]

Thanks for taking my call. Yes, I was just curious about to get married here in about a month and start a family shortly after. However, my fiance just got into CRNA school to be a certified registered nurse anesthesist. And we'd be taking on about $200,000 in student loan debt. But just curious if you would think that would be a smart commitment for us to make as we're starting family here in the near future.

[Dave Ramsey]

You do know who you called, right?

[Caller]

Yes, sir. That's why I'm calling you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, what do you expect us to say? We've never told anyone to go in debt in our lives, much less $200,000 one month after you get married.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

It takes my breath away.

[Caller]

I. I understand. My. The only bright side coming out of that is, you know, right now, she in her regular nurse job probably makes close to $70,000 a year. We're coming out of that. She would make close to about $200,000 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you made it. You made an incorrect assumption there.

[Caller]

What was that, sir?

[Dave Ramsey]

That 100% of the people that start this graduate.

[Caller]

Understood.

[Dave Ramsey]

The other incorrect assumption you made was the lady that called us about three weeks ago who had just finished her medical degree. It was not a nurse anesthetist. It was a different one. And she had $250,000 in debt and her first child had special needs and demanded that she go home and take care of her child. You know what she is. You know what that couple is? That couple's screwed because life doesn't turn out exactly like your little plan ever. So now you got grouchy Dave. Sorry. Let's play it out.

[George Kamel]

Josh, you told me you're on the cusp of getting married, you want to start a family, you want to have this adult life. Here's how this would play out. You guys have a baby. She looks into that baby's eyes and says, I want to stay home. And you go, honey, we're $200,000 in debt. We were banking on you making 200 grand to get out of this hole. And now it's an emotional decision to go. Do I want to stay home, which is what I'm feel called to, or do I need to go do this job to get rid of the debt? And so that's what we're trying to help you see is that potential future of pain.

[Caller]

Right.

And that's. That's kind of where I'm at. And I've kind of had those conversations. I guess this is something that she's dreamed of doing and wanted to do. And.

[Dave Ramsey]

If we have two dreams that are in conflict, it's called a nightmare.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

And one of the dreams is that I want to. I want to have. I want to start a family. Now do nurse anesthetists work full time and have a family? Yes, they do. That is a possibility. Okay. And so it is a possibility that she goes and she graduates perfectly and she makes two, three, even $400,000 a year, which is a great career field that she has selected in terms of income potential is huge. But the assumption that you take on when you just act like this is an autopilot thing is you leave out all the other variables in your life, and that's just unwise. So I can't tell you I've never told anyone in the history of the show to go into debt for student loans ever, in any circumstances. If I was going to, it probably be something like that field, because I actually like her field better than I do an MD in terms of income potential versus what she's going to spend. It's a pretty incredible field that she's signing up for. But that's not. But what I tell someone I love to do what you're asking me no. And I love you guys. I don't want you to do this. I want you to find another way for her to go do that school at some point, find another way for it to get paid for. Find another way to make sure that this is what she wants to do versus stay home with her new child that might have needs.

[George Kamel]

So I would wait until you guys have the baby and she might decide to keep working and you guys have saved up a bunch of money by then, you're in a good spot financially. Maybe then we pursue it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think the concept of going and getting this degree is a very wise decision. How you're going about it and the timing of when you're going about it is very unwise and selfish and strange and immature. And you're gonna screw this up. Please don't do it. Hope I Wasn't unclear, I understood it. We'll just start with the caffeine, okay? We'll just start right off the bat with the caffeine. But I mean, gosh, man, it's just we have the burden and the privilege of having sat in these seats now for decades, you and me and the other personalities hearing when all of this crap best laid plans of mice and men go sideways. When you think that all of your positive assumptions are how things are going to turn out and they just don't turn out that way. I actually wouldn't be here doing this if they turn out the way they're supposed to. I would be a multi bazillionaire in real estate. But it turns out that even though I was making money in real estate, even though I'd never lost money on a deal, even though I wasn't a dime late or a day late, on a single note, a banker looked down when the bank got sold to another bank and looked at our paperwork and said, oh, there's a 26 year old child, boy, that owes us a million. Two, let's limit this relationship. And they looked down and pulled an obscure paragraph out of the paperwork and called my notes.

[George Kamel]

That means you had to pay them in life.

[Dave Ramsey]

It started two and a half years of me losing everything I owned with our water getting cut off, our electricity getting cut off, and our marriage almost ending with a brand new baby, a toddler, and a marriage hanging on by a thread. We got the opportunity to start over because things don't turn out like you plan. And so. And I was good at it too. And I'm smart. I didn't do dumb stuff. The only dumb thing is I signed up for a big old pile of debt thinking it was always gonna work out and the borrower is slave to the lender 100% of the time. So not a real popular thing to talk about. One month before you get married, you get to be the dream killer for your fiance. What kind of man are you anyway? But you know, if you ask how.

[George Kamel]

To start your marriage off on the right foot, I'd go, well, let's be aligned and let's try to avoid being $200,000 in debt. If we can avoid all that, I think we're in a decent spot. So I don't think it's going to set you guys up for success in your marriage. While you also want to get a house and want to upgrade the cars and live your life, go on vacation while being saddled with all this debt. We don't even know if they had other debt, there could have been a pile already sitting there to deal with. So it stresses me out going into marriage like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, the number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. And if you're not aligned on money going into a marriage, you have a problem because you're not aligned on the 1. The number one cause of people splitting up. Hello. You know, the other three are you're not aligned on religion, how to raise kids and whether to have them and how to deal with the freaking in laws. And if you're not aligned on that, those four things, you're going to struggle severely in the first decade of your marriage and it likely will end in divorce. But if you're aligned and you're like, yeah, let's do it, let's go then, have at it. But I mean, Josh, you just walked in the bear's den and you knew it. So I'm confused why you called because you knew what you were getting into here. But anyway, man, find another way to live your life more wisely.

[George Kamel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Jacob is in Tennessee. Hi Jacob, how are you?

[George Kamel]

Hey Dave.

[Caller]

How are you guys doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I just had a quick question. So me and my girlfriend met online. I, I grew up in Michigan, she lived in Tennessee. And when we had initially started dating, you know, I told her I'm not just going to cave and move to Tennessee. I don't want you to just cave and go to Michigan. We'll kind of try each state out and you know, make a decision from there. And she mentioned that her family has about 40 acres of land in Tennessee. And you know, I like Tennessee. It's not my favorite place in the world, but you know, it's not a bad spot. And she mentioned that her mom gives everybody you know, an acre of land when it. When the relationship starts to get serious. And, you know, we've been dating just under two years now. The problem is recently, you know, her mom has been interjecting herself in our relationship, you know, trying to make decisions for us, you know, kind of going behind my back and essentially kind of trying to convince my girlfriend not necessarily to dump me, but questioning every decision I make. And, you know, it's kind of gotten to the point where, you know, she's budding in our finances and she's kind of weaponizing that and saying, hey, I'm not going to give you this acre of land. I don't. You know, I don't like the way you do this or the way you do that. When me and my girlfriend talked about it recently, I just kind of said, you know, ultimately, if that's how it's gonna be, I don't know if we want it. Like, I don't like, you know, starting such a major decision, especially when we're building a house or buying a house somewhere under an ultimatum given.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

So I'm about 25 years old. I just turned 25.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm a DevOps engineer.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much do you make?

[Caller]

I make about six figures, and my girlfriend makes about 60 grand a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what have you done that made this lady dislike you or think that you're not good for her daughter?

[Caller]

So when I moved here initially, so I work from home, right? And that's the only reason I was able to move freely. The problem is where we live in Tennessee, our local tech store is about an hour away. So her big thing is I buy stuff on Amazon a lot. You know, like, it'll be a cable for my computer, It'll be thing for my desk, or even a lot of stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Very few women would keep their daughter from marrying a young man that they like dearly because he buys stuff on Amazon. I ask what you did that caused this woman to think that you're not good enough for her daughter. And buying stuff on Amazon is not the answer. Dude. Really? What's the real answer?

[Caller]

In her mind, she sees the purchases and thinks that I make irresponsible financial decisions. I mean, I'm not. I'm not even making that part up. In her mind, she sees the purchases. You know, I told her I make good money. I've told her, you know, I balance my finances. And I told her, you know, since me and my Girlfriend have started dating. We've been planning for this house and for the build and we've been kind of making sure our credit looks good so we can get a mortgage or a construction loan.

[George Kamel]

I mean, planning to build on her land.

[Dave Ramsey]

The land that she's going to give them. The one acre that she's going to. Yeah, okay, so. Yeah, well, there's a couple things here. Number one, you should never buy a house or build a house ever with someone that you're not married to. So your plan, your plan that you've been doing sucks. Okay? So you need a new plan. It's like I'm going to make you my wife and then we're going to talk about building the house, not we're going to talk about building a house and then my wife. Now that isn't what you've been saying. You've been saying. The words coming out of your mouth were shack up, Shack up, shack up, shack up, shack up.

[George Kamel]

She's meddling with our finances and she's meddling with.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't have an hour finances. There's not one because you're not married. There's a. Your finances and her finances.

[Caller]

Well, yes, I understand what you're saying, but the end goal, like when we envision the house, obviously we were talking about marriage. We've already kind of envisioned that. We've had that conversation that, you know, end of next year, that was kind of my goal was to propose. And after we, you know, if you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are going to get married and then build a house, it's real simple. Yeah, it's real simple. Just build it somewhere else. One acre of land in the area you're talking about in the middle of nowhere. Tennessee is not that big a deal. Whoopty doopty. Thank you for the gift, but will pass. We think, we think, we think we're going to be better able to love you from a distance.

[George Kamel]

That's true love.

[Caller]

I mean, I understand that. That's where my head's at. You know, that's the only thing you can do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Listen, either this lady has identified a character flaw in you that you're unwilling to discuss or are so lacking in self awareness that you know is there and she thinks you need to be run off because you're not good for her daughter, or this lady's a nut job. Okay?

[Caller]

I mean, I mean, I'm serious.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amazon packages on your debt on your front porch are not enough reason to run off. The boyfriend, potential fiance, son in law, that's not enough reason.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's just not.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if that, if, if that is truly it, Jacob and I really have trouble believing that there's actually a human out there. That's stupid. But there might be if they're in your. You're proclaiming that so. But I, having walked through the marriage process with three children who have now been married for over 10 years and before they got to those winners, we ran off a few losers. I might have been accused of being your mother in law at some point, but it wasn't because Amazon packages. It was cause of character flaw or because of, you know, well, I mean, lack of work ethic. That's a character flaw, right? Dishonesty. That's a character flaw, right? Yeah. These are people you don't want to marry and don't want your kids marrying. So if you're not something that is, if you are a young gentleman, a knight of honor that is worthy of the fair maiden's hand, then this woman's a nut job. And you do not want to be living in her backyard on money, on an acre she gave you. There is no circumstance in which that's going to turn out well, ever. So you have to declare this to be one way or the other. We have to figure out what is really going on with this woman and solve for quality relationship or we have to distance ourself. And it doesn't sound to me like you guys need to be in the.

[George Kamel]

Backyard and you're the boyfriend.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't need to be doing any.

[George Kamel]

Of this because between the mom and the daughter, if there's boundary issues, that's up to the daughter to decide.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

So I would have her do that. If she's not, if she's not defending you and she's just letting you, you know, roll over and take it, this relationship's not going to pan out. Dave just talked about how being misaligned with in laws is a big reason that marriages don't succeed. And so we're already seeing a red, a huge red flag here.

[Dave Ramsey]

I 100% recommend parents interfere in their grown children's lives if there is a loser involved and run them off. I 100% recommend that. Because you love them and you have more wisdom than they do and you're not all hot and bothered about them, so you're actually seeing them clearly. And so I 100% recommend that. But if they're functional and this is a good one, not a perfect one, but a good one, let's encourage the union. He's a smart guy, done in proper order and Then try to speak persuasion over the finances if there's something to be persuaded there. If truly the only thing wrong with Jacob is he buys too much stuff on Amazon or more stuff than she's accustomed to seeing on Amazon. That's a pretty simple thing to process through if someone involved has the relational IQ to do it. But guys, Jacob, she is not violating the boundaries of you guys, of the couple's finances because the couple doesn't have finances. Her daughter has finances and you have finances. And so if she says something about her daughter's finances, she's perfectly capable of doing that. And her daughter, depending on her age and maturity level, was perfectly capable of setting a boundary with her own mother. And she obviously doesn't get a vote in your finances. But it's when you start talking about this stuff as if you're married and you're not that my red flags go up. And if I'm mom, I'm running you off because you have a bunch of this crap out of order. And I think that might be what's going on here. But like, you know, Jacob wants to build a house on my land and not be married to my daughter. Yeah, I don't think I'm going to go along with that.

[George Kamel]

Mom says we need mom to call in. Good for her side of the story here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So that could be what it is, Jacob, but it could be that she's just nuttier in a fruitcake and you don't need fruitcake near you and so you just get away from the fruitcake. Just a little distance. Little distance.

[George Kamel]

It's a principle I love.

[Dave Ramsey]

Distance makes the heart grow fonder. You know, it's like it takes about a year of marriage to know how close to your mother in law to live. Yeah, she watched you don't buy a house in the first year of marriage.

[George Kamel]

How does she know he's buying all this stuff on Amazon? She's a little too close for comfort. My mother in law doesn't know what's showing up at the house. That's all I'm saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know what's showing up at your house either, George. So it would scare me probably. I would probably question you.

[George Kamel]

It's a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would probably violate your boundaries. Just say, george, what are you doing man?

[George Kamel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Jim is in New York. Hey Jim, how are you doing?

[Caller]

Well, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Question for you. I have a 20 year old son that I feel we've done a good job of getting him set up for success. He decided not to go the college route and went the skilled trade route. And the agreement we made was that if he wasn't going to school and he was going to be living at home that he had to put half of his net income into a savings account until he wanted to move out. And we wouldn't charge him any rent or anything. Fast forward, he's now 20, going to be 21. He's at a point where he's got a considerable amount of money in his Savings account. About 60,000. And I'm just wondering at what point do we start steering him to move out of the house? Should we move him towards ownership? You know, how much should he be looking to put down out of that money that he saved? Where should we be steering him next?

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Very cool. So what trade did he go into?

[Caller]

He's a heavy machine mechanic.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good, very cool. Good. How old were you when you left home, Jim?

[Caller]

I was 20, but I had no money and was waiting on my paycheck to come in so I could pay my first month's rent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I had a $12 and I was out of there.

[George Kamel]

So money's not the problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

George. What?

[George Kamel]

I was 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

You were 20? Yeah. I think we have a consensus, Jim. That's my.

[George Kamel]

Is he wanting to leave or is he like. No, I'm good. I got it good here.

[Caller]

I think he's good with either way. I mean he's, he's a good kid.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, he's easy. It's hard. It's a hard decision because there's nothing wrong here.

[Caller]

Yeah. It's not that I want him out.

[Dave Ramsey]

And not that he Wants to be out there. So that makes it a harder decision. So just from a developmental standpoint, he'll become a man faster if he doesn't live in his mama's house.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty simple. And so I'm. It's not. I'm not in a rush. It doesn't have to be tomorrow. It doesn't have to be before Thanksgiving. I'm not doing that. I mean, it's not that there's a lot of grace around this, but let's begin to talk about and set a date certain that we all aim at. Cause his mom probably will. Honestly, my wife didn't want any of ours to leave. They'd still be there. But I'm just like, no, you're leaving. And you can come back when you bring grandkids. And then only for a visit. But yeah, you're out of here. And so because it's so good for them, I mean, you just walk different when you buy your own milk. You know, you just carry your shoulders a little different.

[George Kamel]

You fold your own laundry when you did.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, when the underwear doesn't get washed unless you wash it. Hello. And so it's just a different thing, man. And so it's good. But I mean, so I would set a date that sometime no later than now, 12 months from the day that he's out. And no, I would not buy. I would just get out and rent something for a little while. Get a couple roommates running is okay.

[Caller]

For a little while.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And then just pile up some more cash. He's doing so good financially. He's so responsible. He's a hard worker. He's completed. Completed the loop on his training. He's making the money. He's stacking the money. This is a good kid, man. Way to go, Jim.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You did good.

[Caller]

Well, thanks. Should I be steering him to invest some of that money in anything long term? Right now? It's literally sitting in a low yield.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know what I would do is have him sit down with a smartvestor, probably get one of the smartvestor pros in the area and meet with them. And you could go on the meeting and just say, hey, I'm going to go with you. Just so I can understand what he's telling you. And I want you to understand. So this meeting is a meeting to teach. I want the smartvestor pro to show this phenomenal young man what he could do with some of this money between now and the time he uses it to my house.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I want him to begin to Learn about it and begin to go into a guy like that's office and a gal like that's office and sit there and have that experience of meeting. Because I mean, if you've got a master's degree in finance, meeting with an investment professional is intimidating. If you are a machinist, it's super intimidating. And if you're 20, it's super duper intimidating. So it's really good to get it out of the way to figure out that these people are just people and that they're there to serve you, help you, teach you to hit your goals and then you can begin to build a friendship, build a relationship and begin to learn from. Begin the process of learning from them. And that's all I would do. I don't think he needs to really invest any of it big time. There's no big deal here. The secret sauce is him and he's got that down.

[George Kamel]

And he's got plenty of time for compound growth to do his work. So when he's ready to invest, he's going to go hard at it and become a multi, multimillionaire. So right now he's really in kind of a baby step 3B where he's stacking up a down payment. So he doesn't need to be investing today. But it's good to start and get those principles down. And again, I would rent for sure. I would not go buy a house at 21. He doesn't need all of that right now. Get him a couple roommates. If rent's expensive in his area and he'd rather have some friends around and he's a social guy, you know, just get a few roommates. That's what I did until I was married and it made me more thankful for my wife. Once you're living with a woman versus a bunch of dudes, you're like, oh, this is so much better. So much better. Just a hygiene level alone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, sure makes you think you went there.

[George Kamel]

But yeah, someone had to do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So yeah, that's renting is not wasted money when you are buying time. Time to save up a down payment, time to get your life situated and set time because we're not going to be in that city for that long. And that's not the case with this young man probably and so on. But that's a great story, Jim. I love hearing that. And you know, did you. I heard such maturity in the dad.

[George Kamel]

Oh yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Holding the situation with an open hand, not being controlling. What's a good idea? I want to kick him out. Or I want him to stay and save money. And I disagree with you guys. It was neither one. It was more like, what's a good idea? What's good for my son? I love him.

[George Kamel]

I mean, what parent out there doesn't want to be Jim and go, Like, I'd love to have a kid who leaves the house at 21 with a great job and 60 grand in the bank and no debt. Ding, ding, ding. You won as a parent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I think that you can check that on the bingo card for sure. Chelsea's in Pennsylvania. Hey, Chelsea. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. My husband and I are here, and we had a question for you. We discovered you not too long ago, and we are in the middle of the baby steps. Our question is we have a business, and we took out a loan for $20,000 for the business, an LLC, and we have personal debt of about $16,000. And we think we can get the personal debt down pretty quickly. Doing the Gazelle Intensity that you said about. Question is, once we pay off that personal debt, should we attack the business debt or can we start investing?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you need. You need to get rid of the business debt. Because it's not business debt. You sign for it personally.

[Caller]

Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're personally liable. The bank does not think that's business debt. The bank thinks they loaned you money. You only think it's business debt because you borrowed the money on your personal signature to use for business. That's the only reason you think business debt. But it's legally not business debt.

[Caller]

Okay. So we need to focus on getting that down as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Definitely. And I definitely, number one, cause a small business failure.

[Caller]

Should. Should we use, like, how should we go about getting that business debt down? Because I know for the personal debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

You said you're going to go out. You're going to go out to 16,000 like Gazelle. Intense, you said. So you've been listening with great intensity. You're going to shrink down your lifestyle, beef up your income, not go out to eat, not go on a vacation till you get the 16,000 paid off. Right?

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then do the 20.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have $36,000 in consumer debt, kiddo.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what you have.

[Caller]

I was hoping it wasn't that. It was. It's not considered somebody else's. Not somebody else.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nobody else signed it. You're the one signed it.

[George Kamel]

Is the business successful? Is it making money? You guys paying yourselves?

[Caller]

It is now. Yeah. That's why we used that. Took out that loan initially. That's what we lived off of $20,000 for the.

[George Kamel]

So how much do you guys, what do you make from the business? What do you take home?

[Caller]

This year we're set to take home 78,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Do you have jobs other than that?

[Caller]

No. And we started two and a half years ago, so it's still pretty good. I think it's looking better.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's looking okay. You're at least profitable and you know, you can see a future that's positive. That's good. But I mean, it's not like you won the super bowl or something. I mean, you just now are getting to where you're making the money you would have been making if you had jobs.

[Caller]

Right, Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's good. But now we need to go double it because the purpose of running the business is make some more money. So let's get after it. And in the process of getting rid of this debt. So. And next time you want to expand or do anything with your business, pay cash for it or don't do it. That's a great rule that'll keep you open. Traditional home security systems don't stop someone from entering your home. They only react once someone is already inside. That's too late. Real security should stop a crime before it even starts. And that's why I only trust SimpliSafe Home Security. Because they take action while a criminal is still outside your home. When someone suspicious steps onto your property, SimpliSafes AI security cameras identify the potential threat and alert their professional monitoring agents. The agents can then confront the criminal and if they need to, trigger sirens and spotlights and dispatch the police. And unlike other systems, you don't have to confront the intruder yourself. With SimpliSafe's 247 monitoring agents, it's like having a security guard stationed right outside your home. And with a 60 day money back guarantee and no long term contracts, more than 4 million Americans trust SimpliSafe to keep their homes and families safe every day. Right now, get 50% off your new [e-mail] that's simplisafedirect.com there's no safe like SimpliSafe. Our EveryDollar team is offering free live budgeting workshops this month in Budgeting 101. You'll learn how to make a budget with EveryDollar, get tips from our experts and even ask your questions in a live Q&A. Plus you'll get a step by step walkthrough of EveryDollar's feature so you can use the app with Confidence and learn to walk exactly the Ramsey way. The budgeting app is going to cause you, help you to do it. It's going to teach you as you're doing. It's pretty crazy how cool this thing is. So budgeting 101, it gives you the support you need to get the budget going, find the margin and walk this stuff out the Ramsey way. Sign up for Budgeting101 for free ramseysolutions.com workshop Logan is in Indiana. Hi Logan, how are you?

[Caller]

Good. Yourself?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I was wondering if I'm financially doing what's correct in life and a little backstory to that. So about seven years ago, a little before that, but my mom gave me a car as my first car had some mechanical issues, she offered to fix it and I was paying her back. Inevitably that car got destroyed, but I saved up enough cash, I bought another car, I want to blew the motor, took the money I had left from that and my mom found a old college fund that she put together like when I was born and she completely forgot about it. Took that money, bought another car, then I got into a head on collision, took that money, bought another car, then blew the motor on that one. Then finally told myself alright, let's go to a dealership, let's go get a safe car that way so it's under a warranty and everything. That one evidently started me making problems that were not covered under warranty then. So then the dealership was able to buy that car back but then get me into a brand new car still with a little under money left over from the old one. So now I'm 46,000 in debt for that one. But then at the time when I had the car that I got in the head on collision, me and my fiance at the time bought a house and when we, we separated five years later and I had a family to go back to, he had no family to go back to. So I left everything for the house for him and dropped my name off of the mortgage and everything. So he took over that.

[Dave Ramsey]

How did you draw? You don't drop your name off of a mortgage.

[Caller]

Well, he refinanced and everything, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you gave him the house and he refinanced the mortgage. All right, good. So. So you're clear of the house and you suck at buying cars. Okay.

[George Kamel]

You ever tried riding a bicycle? This might be the solution to your problems, man.

[Caller]

So I moved back home and since I moved back home and I got a better job, I have offered to pay back my mom for everything she's done for me. And with my new car, I'm letting her drive that. And I took over her old car because where I work, it utterly destroys your car. And I don't want the brand new car to end up like my other cars. So is financially me taking care of my mom that way and all this correct, the way I should have done my life or.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you. You obviously don't think so. That's why you called.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because, I mean, I'm just the fruit of. This is horrible. How old are you?

[Caller]

27.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you're at home with a $46,000 car that you owe on that someone else drives. So. Yeah, I mean, the decisions you've made have brought you here, so we can't call them good.

[Caller]

No, that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fair. I mean, that's just an observation. You've already owned that observation, even in just the telling of the story to us. So.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, no, with what you outlined, I'm not sure you owe your mother any money. There was a couple times she gave you money. A couple times she gave you your college fund. A couple times she helped you get a transmission. And if you've paid her back for their blown engine. You blew a lot of engines in this story. Do you, like, do oil changes and stuff?

[Caller]

Yeah, I do a lot of my own work.

[George Kamel]

Have a professional start doing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, sounds like based on the number of engines, the root of all these problems are a lot of engines being alone. All right, so how do we move forward from here with what we should have learned? Okay, number one, we've got to get better at analyzing transportation as being solid transportation and not overpaying for it, but also not buying crap. And so don't ever buy another car. But what you don't have a mechanic. Do an independent mechanic. Do the inspection before you buy the car, period. Number two, don't let some dealer talk you into upgrading out of a lemon into a super expensive semi. Non lemon that's so expensive that your mother ends up driving it. So this doesn't work. That car needs to be sold.

[George Kamel]

You know what it's worth.

[Caller]

Right now? 38,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. So you need to go borrow $8,000 from the credit union and sell this car and then get you a five or a $10,000 car, which scares you to death because you blow engines like anybody I've ever seen. But you need to go get a 5 or $10,000 car, pay cash for it. What do you make, by the way.

[Caller]

So far, this will be my first year that I'm fully at my job, and it's just shy of 200,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Oh, that's great news. Because you're single right this second, you don't have much overhead, and so you can get yourself squared around and. And be an independent human being from your mother and get rid of this car and get a car that you pay cash for, that is reliable, that a reliable mechanic gives you an analysis on before you buy it. And then if you want to, go ahead.

[Caller]

I do have five other cars that I am using right now.

[George Kamel]

Goodness gracious. Do any of them have dead on?

[Caller]

No, Only. Only the one.

[George Kamel]

Why?

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have five other cars?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where in this story did we miss that?

[George Kamel]

Are they functioning?

[Caller]

Yes, they're all functioning. Two are work vehicles that are at work, and then one is a daily driver and another one is a race car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so do you have any money saved, by the way?

[Caller]

I got 6,000 right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I can tell you got a lot of good.

[Caller]

I'm trying.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so what do you do for a living now?

[Caller]

I'm a slab hauler at the steel mill.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. Good for you.

[George Kamel]

The good news is you don't need to go to the credit union to borrow money because your next paycheck is going to cover the amount you're underwater on and probably going to sell this race car, maybe one other car to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Clean up this mess and get out of your mother's basement. Dude, you know, go get an apartment, be like a guy and have a. Have a reasonable number of cars and a work truck, like one other car, like your daily driver and your work truck. And until you've got all of that, you're not making good financial decisions. No, I would simplify your life. I think I heard. Let me see if I heard a trend, George. See if I can pull the thread here. Okay. Almost all of his financial problems revolve around cars. Too many different kinds, too expensive, blowing engines. The only one that he pulled off smart was he got his roommate, his boyfriend, to take over his loan to refinance. That was a smart move. That was a smooth move to get out of that mess. But he never did a single car transaction that was that smart. So, yeah, cars are killing you. So if the word car shows up anywhere in your brain, run away. Run away. Anything that has a motor in it or wheels on it is a curse to you, sir, because every interaction you've had with vehicles has been negative. Now, most people have Negative interactions because they do break and they do go down in value and people do get upside down in them and they do pay too much. But not like you, man. You. You made it into a science. And so you've got to run when you hear the word car. Because everything that bad that has happened to your money, just about everything bad in the whole story you told us was revolving around cars.

[George Kamel]

It could have been avoided if you just rode that bicycle, just like I said.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, be careful. That also has wheels. Yeah, that's true. Anything with wheels or a motor gives this guy trouble.

[George Kamel]

But no engine on that bicycle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, man, I'm sorry you're going through.

[George Kamel]

This, but you can clean it up. That's the good news. You have a great.

[Dave Ramsey]

The good news is, Logan, you can back out of some of these bad decisions and be a free man very soon.

[George Kamel]

Like by Christmas. Your life has changed if you do this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. And you'll just be almost. Lots less cars, lots less car.

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[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. George Camel Ramsey personality, co host of the Smart Money Happy Hour and number one best selling author is. My co host. Catherine is with us in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi Katherine, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. Hi George. How are you guys?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I'll just cut to the chase. I basically I got served with divorce papers two weeks ago. I'm kind of in a Tailspin. But most importantly, I'm just really concerned on how do I, like, move forward. My husband and I previously did go through a debt free journey to the point where we paid our house off and everything. We recently sold that house back in April and bought what I thought was our forever home. And so now I just kind of feel the weight of like being now like stuck in another mortgage again and we have two kids and just like, what do I now do for retirement? I just have a lot of questions, basically.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, it sounds like you didn't see this coming.

[Caller]

I didn't. I mean, did I know that we were, you know, perfect? Absolutely not. However, I just never thought this was something that would happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the hard part about what you're going through is a friend of mine that does divorce recovery counseling says that a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction. And I can hear in your voice that your heart is broken. And when my heart is broken, I don't function as well. And yet you are going to have to and real clear business decisions with math, not with emotion. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so words like forever house are no longer part of the vocabulary. Instead it's just a house that has a mortgage and is a problem. So what's going to be, what's going to happen to the house in this divorce? And you're debt free except for that?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. And how much money do we have in 401ks and so on?

[Caller]

I don't know. He handled most of it. I do know what I have in my like 403B at my job. It's like roughly 85,000. But we had like a separate Roth ra actually, I think two separate Roths.

[Dave Ramsey]

And who's handling those? Were those with a smartvestor pro.

[Caller]

If I'm being honest, Dave. I don't know. Like I said, he, he kind of. Because I don't really understand the stock market and all that stuff. And so I was like, okay, you got it. And I kind of let him handle that part. I, I do think he did reach out to someone, but I'm not like 100 certain.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Have you talked to an attorney yet?

[Caller]

No, I was in the two months before. I was really just like trying to do everything I could to fight for our marriage. And.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the serving was not a surprise.

[Caller]

Okay, well, the servant wasn't necessarily a surprise, but in terms of like just everything happened so quickly from the moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where is he living happy.

[Caller]

And can you still live here at the house?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's weird.

[George Kamel]

You Guys. You guys have kids?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Too.

[George Kamel]

How old are they?

[Caller]

4 year old son, 13 month old daughter.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, here's what, here's what you have to do in this situation. Knowledge is power. And when you're in trauma, in a traumatic or dramatic situation, facts are your friends. And so as you gather more and more facts about what this is going to look like three years from now, it's going to help you process the emotion. The emotion is quadrupled. The broken heart. And when you start talking about your babies, you start crying. That's normal. That's four times worse. Because you have no idea how this is going to turn out because you don't know anything about the money. And so they. You need to meet with a lawyer tomorrow and start learning in the state of Texas what the wife is going to get. And you're going to be pleasantly surprised that it's a lot.

[Caller]

Does it matter that like I've been the breadwinner the majority of the time?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. I've never. How long have you been married?

[Caller]

Seven years. It'll be eight years in March.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, and so. Well, I don't know in the state of Texas what your alimony laws are going to be. It's possible that if you made a lot more than he did, you might be due for alimony to him. But you need to know these facts. I don't know them. And you get that from an attorney and then you grab Mr. I served you with papers and go, okay, where is the information on all of our accounts? I need it for my attorney. And he needs to tell you where the accounts are and what the account numbers are and print off the pages and hand them to you. And if he doesn't say, my attorney is going to make you do this if you don't do it. Okay. Because you need to gather up the facts. I don't know if you're sitting on a million dollars. I don't know if you're sitting on $50,000. How much equity is in this house when you sell it? Because you're not going to be able to keep it.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, when we sold our house that we paid off completely, we put a large chunk of that down on this house.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much money are we talking about?

[Caller]

So we put 250,000 down there and then the mortgage that I have is 400,000. But.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're going to sell the house and put $250,000 on the table of which you will get at least half to start your new life with. And what does he make a year? Do you have any idea?

[Caller]

Probably about 60.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's going to be paying child support out of that in 100% of the states, 100% of the time. Okay. If they're his kids. Yeah. Okay. And so pretty simple. So these types of facts, then you go, okay, you can start to project into the future what your new life looks like. And that is a very cold and calculated, non dramatic, non emotional thing. But it helps you then to stay in the moment in a highly emotional situation. Because if you're not highly emotional, where you're sitting right now, you'd be weird.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you have permission to cry. You have permission to rage. You have permission to. When your children's names come up for your stomach to go in your throat because of what this means to them. And your permission to make decisions very rapidly for Mr. I'm going to serve you papers to move out. Like now. We either is or we isn't. We isn't playing house when there's divorce papers on the table. And so get your attorney's involvement in all of that. And honey, you need an attorney by the end of Friday afternoon if you don't have one. This is now on you. This is how you've got to deal with it. And I'm not picking a fight. You didn't pick the fight. The fight came to your door. Literally, they knocked on the front door and gave you. I mean, it really did come to your door. And so, yeah, you're gonna have to deal with this. And facts are your friends. You're gonna feel a lot less out of control and chaotic the more you understand and know about your. How this is likely gonna shake out. I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance. And I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, Right. If a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out, how am I gonna afford childcare? How do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? And it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a Whole new level. Like when you have to think through, how am I gonna pay my bills.

[Dave Ramsey]

How am I gonna do it next week? Yeah.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much. Cause Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud, and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza there really is.

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[Dave Ramsey]

So we've used Zander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance. To get a free quote, go to 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282. Or go to zander.com Ray is with us in Miami. Hey, Ray, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey. Thank you very much for taking my call. I'm having kind of like a midlife crisis purchase. I'm interested in buying a new Bronco. And so I needed to get some advice. Would it be more wise to pay it off in cash or should I finance it and invest that 50k into the market to try to make a profit?

[Dave Ramsey]

I have met zero millionaires that became millionaires borrowing money on a car and investing that. So, no, I would pay cash for it or wouldn't do it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it's going to go down in value like a rock. The new Broncos are very cool too, by the way. I particularly like the new Raptor Broncos. They're sharp.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

How much money do you have saved?

[Caller]

Currently?

I have about 120,000 saved.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your net worth?

[Caller]

My net worth is about 700,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. We teach folks not to buy a brand new car until they've got a net worth of at least a million, because new cars lose so much value. So I'd buy a one year old or slightly used, you know, 10,000 mile or something, same year model. Anyway, let someone else take the butt kicking on the depreciation of the first year and pay cash for it. And if you're going to do that, that's the only way I would buy the car. And like I said, it's a cool car. I don't have any problem with that. And it should also be less than 50. All of your vehicles added together, anything with wheels and motors should be less than 50% of your annual income. Otherwise you have too much invested in things going down in value. But I'm guessing that you probably make over 100 and I'm guessing you have the cash to do this. You told us you. And so if you buy a, like a one year old or a 10, 10,000 mile or 5,000 mile one, you probably are going to save 10 or 15,000 bucks for real and they'll drop.

[George Kamel]

10% when you drive it off the lot. So just look for one that's barely used and you'll get a discount.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, because guys, I mean new cars are the worst thing we buy in terms of loss in value. When you drive the brand new car that you bought over the curb and it goes bloomp blump leaving the dealer that sound was $10,000 or in some cases $20,000. Bloomp bloomp. Yeah, just each one of those bloom bloomps right there. I mean that's, it's a lot of money. And you can afford to do that if you've got a million dollars and you're paying cash for it and all that, that's fine, I've done it, I'm not mad about it. But you know, you can't do, you can't go buy a, in his case he's buying a $50,000 car, he said, and you can't do that if you're making $50,000 a year. And then figure out, oh, I don't know why I can't get ahead. It's because you've got all your money invested and things are going down in.

[George Kamel]

Value and then you regret it. But you can't sell it because now you're 10,000 underwater on it and now you got a new problem on your hands.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. So Ray, I think you're in a position to buy that car and I think I would advise buying the car because it's something you want and you've worked real hard to get there. But I'm going to pay cash and I'm going to buy a slightly used unless I have a net Worth of a million dollars. That would be the only adjustments to the advice. Tyler is in Salt Lake City. Hi Tyler. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey.

How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

So my, My wife and I, we accidentally fell into some untaxed freelance work. My. My wife, she. She's a nanny. She was doing it just as a side gig to make some extra money and the family that she was working for asked her to work full time. So she's been working for them almost full time, just kind of under the table. Paid through Venmo, hasn't paid any taxes on it. And I kind of fell into the same situation. There's a startup or detailing business. It was, you know, a couple weekends here and there and now it's, you know, 50 hour weeks and we finally been able to get ahead. We're working on paying off our credit cards and everything like that. But the issue is that, you know, even though we're getting ahead on our debt debt, we're not paying any taxes. And it's. I'm scared of the repercussions of what that might entail and I don't really. I want to get out of it. I don't know if I want to leave my job and just find something that pays taxes or.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not a big deal. All you gotta do is just start paying your taxes. It's not a big deal.

[Caller]

We've been thinking everything, every dollar we make into paying off our debt and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, now you're not. Because you've not been paying your taxes. And that's. You're right, you should be scared about that. You need to be paying your taxes and with what's left over after you pay tax, then you work your household budget and pay off your debts.

[Caller]

And I mean everything we, we been trying to pay the credit cards, our cars have a bunch of deferred maintenance that we've just been trying to get caught up on.

[Dave Ramsey]

You think you're going to talk me into telling you to not pay taxes?

[Caller]

No, no, not at all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then quit arguing with me. Okay? You got to pay taxes, man.

[George Kamel]

So starting today, 30 cents of every dollar goes into a savings account to pay for taxes. And you can log on to the IRS website and do your quarterly estimated payments to get ahead of it instead of hoping at the end of the year that you did it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If you do your quarterly estimated payments, a profit on your businesses. So if you're running a detailing business, make sure you have a separate checking account for your business. Put all of your income and her income for that matter, into that business account and then remove any deductible business expenses, cost of doing business, a real business expense. Like if you buy a pressure washer or you buy soap or you buy whatever, those are deductible items in your profit and loss statement. Then what's left in that account after you've done your expenses is profit. When you get ready to bring some of that profit home, we Recommend Setting aside 25 to 30% of that for your quarterly tax estimates, your estimated quarterly so called. Okay. And so if you're going to bring $10,000 out of that account, set aside 2,500 in a separate account just to pay your quarterly taxes. And then once a quarter, you're supposed to fill out this very simple little form, which is your income minus your expenses equals your profit. That will then be calculated and create your tax bill for that quarter. And you'll have the money for the tax bill because you will have set aside 25 to 30% of the money as you pull it out of the business account to bring it home. Is that all logical?

[Caller]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So we're going to reduce the cash that you have to work your goals. Your goals are getting out of debt, deferred maintenance on the vehicles and those kinds of things. But we're also going to keep you out of jail, which is preferable.

[Caller]

Yeah, Very, very much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

So I get in touch with a tax pro to help you guys with this, too. Your life got complicated and it's time to seek the help of a pro. So you can go to ramseysolutions.com taxpro and get in touch with one that we trust to help you walk through this and do it the right way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me give you clarity on that because I don't want to just leave drama out there hanging in the air. Okay. The clarity is it is not illegal in the United States to not pay your taxes. It is a criminal act to not file your tax return. That's where you're breaking down. So you file the tax return. Oh, and you're going to pay your taxes because the penalties and the interest are ridiculous if you don't pay them on time by doing these proper forms.

[Caller]

You know, it's going to be a struggle to pay the taxes in general because we haven't been setting money aside. But I know if I don't pay them, it's just going to get upside down in a situation that I'll never be able to catch up on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. You're going to wake up one morning with a $25,000 IRS bill and we don't need that. You know, it's going to reverse all the good that you've done with the cash and so, and then some. So, yeah. And plus it's emotionally hanging over your head because, you know, in the back of your head, this is the monster in the closet. And one of these days it's going to kick the door and you just don't want that. So let's get out in front of this, get it all squared around, and then with what's left, we'll start working our, working our system again. And, but that, that's definitely the way to go. And so you can't use the excuse of I've got more important things to do with the money, because you don't. The irs, when they come after you, they have virtually unlimited power in terms of, for instance, if you don't pay your MasterCard and they sue you and they want to garnish your check, they have to go to court and execute on the judgment and get the judge's permission to garnish your check. If the IRS wants to garnish your check, they don't sue you. They just garnish your check. And you go, you go to get your check at work one day and they go, surprise. There's nothing there. And yeah, it's gonna, yeah, it's not fun. So you don't want to be on the other side of the kgb.

[George Kamel]

I mean, the IRS and sidebar wife and the family. She's working for being a nanny. She's an employee. She needs to be W2. They need to do this legally by the books. And they need to pay their share taxes. She pays her share. No more under the table stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not, it could be 1099 if she is running a nanny service. Yeah, but if she's a, if she's a singular one employee, if she only has one person she nannies for, then she's double you too. You're right. So that, that family's getting off scot free because they're not paying the matching portion that they're supposed to be paying.

[George Kamel]

Hey, guys, if you're already shopping at Aldi, way to maximize your grocery budget. Good for you. Now here's how to level up your savings. Make Aldi your first stop every week. From fresh organic produce to grass fed beef to marinated chicken that's ready to cook, to high quality dairy products, you'll be able to snag everything you need without the hassle and nonsense. Just legit quality and low prices. And families like yours can save up to $4,000 a year just by shopping at Aldi. And that's not a hack. It's just a smarter habit. So stop overpaying. Make Aldi your first stop for groceries and watch the savings stack up. Find a store near you@ Aldi US. That's Aldi US Savings. Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

[Dave Ramsey]

Katie is in Wisconsin. Hi, Katie. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing great. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, my husband has a bit of a spending problem and he's gone through our personal savings, which was our emergency fund, and I'm afraid he's going to start in on our money that we have staged for a down payment on a home. And I wondered how I could.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why? Does he have an out of control spending problem? Was he addicted to.

[Caller]

Just whatever he sees on the Internet that he decides he has to have and he doesn't stop until he gets it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so he's a child.

[Caller]

That's a good way to put it. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

How long has he been this way?

[Caller]

As far as I can tell, his whole adult life.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long have you been married?

[Caller]

Married two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how old is she?

[Caller]

34.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So it sounds like you guys are going to enter marriage counseling or your marriage is going to end.

[Caller]

I have tried to make an appointment with a marriage counselor and I'm not sure. I just wanted to protect it in the meantime so that it's not gone. I worked very hard for that down payment. And. And he didn't make me sick. No, I brought it into the marriage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the only thing you could do on a temporary basis is just take it out of that account and go open another account in another bank and put it in your name only.

[Caller]

Yeah, I was thinking about putting a cashier's check.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you just open an account in another bank. Doesn't have his name on it. He can't get to it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of course, he won't know where it is either unless you tell him.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I will bring this money back into the marriage once I determine that we have a marriage.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And currently we don't, because currently you are trying to destroy our lives.

[Caller]

It is very disheartening.

[Dave Ramsey]

It is, yeah. Heartbreaking.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's awful.

[George Kamel]

What's his response when you bring all.

[Caller]

This up up just to get angry at me and continue the argument. Go down rabbit trails until we're both just like, walking away like we didn't get anywhere.

[Dave Ramsey]

So this is not going to end well if you guys don't get some help. Okay? No, if you get some help, it can end well. It can. It can be worked through, but you guys don't have the tools to navigate this, nor does he have the desire right now. So basically, he's misbehaving and when you bring it up, he starts gaslighting and you end up the vet. You end up the problem rather than the solution.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm a disobedient wife because I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, there we go. I love that one. Let's go ahead and Christianize our stupidity. Yeah, that's just, that's, that's, that's wonderful. Yeah. What he, what he is, is a horrible husband. That's what he is. So if we're going to go disobedient wife, we're going to start calling names, we can go there, but I don't think name calling is going to help this. I think the only thing you've got is you need to move the money into your name and you need to see a marriage counselor and hopefully you can start getting some tools on how to deal with him to get him to the marriage counselor, and the two of you can spend some time learning how to navigate this together and, and stay together. And I sure hope that's what works. I sure hope that's what happens. If it's not, then you're gonna have to see an attorney and use some of your down payment money on that, and that's gonna end the whole thing right now.

[Caller]

Can you claim that I stole the money if I do that?

[Dave Ramsey]

It's your money. You brought it into the marriage and I didn't steal it. I moved it. I'm not hiding it from the judge, and I'm not hiding it from the attorney. I'm hiding it from the guy who's out of control.

[George Kamel]

And you're not even spending it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And by the way, it's not his. It's your. It's the couple's money. But the judge will determine if you having brought it into the marriage makes it subject to be split in a divorce. So a little tough to steal something that's yours.

[Caller]

Okay. Okay. That's what I was worried about.

[George Kamel]

So you guys have debt?

[Caller]

No. Except for an orthodontist payment.

[George Kamel]

Okay. I would freeze your credit because my fear is this guy starts taking out debt, debt, and your name's attached to it.

[Caller]

Okay, how do you freeze your credit?

[Dave Ramsey]

Jump on the credit bureau sites. And they each have. There's three of them. They each have a place to do a freeze. And I would do them directly on the sites. I would not do them through some kind of a service like go on.

[George Kamel]

To Experian's website, TransUnion's website, TRW.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the three. Okay, yeah, Experian, TransUnion, TRW. Just jump on their site and do a freeze. Takes about 10 minutes. And that keeps anyone from borrowing money in your name if they check the credit bureau report. If they don't check it, then you've got a different kind of identity theft. But I'm not putting identity theft past this guy at this stage.

[George Kamel]

Once he runs out of savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

The good news is you can undo every bit of this and have a combined transparent, healthy, clear, wonderful marriage once you get some healing in this situation. Okay, so let's pretend that you called us up and you said, hey, my husband has spent $15,000 on cocaine in the past four months. The advice we would give you is exactly the same advice we just gave you.

[Caller]

Okay, that makes sense that he has.

[Dave Ramsey]

To have some help for his problem. Your marriage is in jeopardy. So you have to have some help for your marriage. And in the meantime, you have to protect yourself from someone who's misbehaving financially. Okay? And that's what you've got to do here. And again, I'm not doing this to pick a fight with him. That's not the point. On the contrary, I'm trying to make all kinds of suggestions that present a situation where healing can occur. But if he persists on this, and this is the only way he's willing to live his life, and anytime you question his spending, everything you make and then some, he yells, you're a disobedient wife. If that's the only position this guy has, you're not going to be married in two years. You'll be done. Because sane people don't stay in situations like that. And, you know, it's just that that's just cray cray, and you don't stay there. So Chase is in South Carolina. Hey, Chase, how are you? Hey, Dave.

[Caller]

How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I am 21, I'm in baby step two, and I have a mortgage, have a wife, a son, and another son due in two weeks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yay.

[Caller]

Yeah, I know. We want to move in the future, obviously after baby step three and four or in order.

[Dave Ramsey]

And.

[Caller]

Some of my family is recommending that whenever we do move that we keep our current home, which will carry a mortgage and rent it while having a mortgage on our new home down the road. And I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's sweet, but they're broke and we don't take financial advice from broke people. Even if they're in our family. Especially if they're in our family. Right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's a bad idea, Chase. That's a bad idea.

[Caller]

So. And I'm right on board with you. And I've argued the same thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have to argue. It's your house.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it in your name?

[Caller]

Yes. Oh, absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

You and your wife own the house, right?

[Caller]

Well, yeah, just my name is on the. On the deal.

[Dave Ramsey]

So whoever this is, your mom or your dad or her mom or her dad, just tell them. Thank you for your input. We've decided to go a different direction.

[Caller]

I guess I'd just like to prove them wrong in the name.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't. The way you prove them wrong as you go become very wealthy, doing the right things, and then they look over and go, well, I guess Chase was right after all.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the number of times a 21 year old convinces his parents that they're wrong is pretty close to zero.

[Caller]

Outside of risk, is there? Because obviously you say people that do these things don't calculate for risk.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, exactly.

[Caller]

Outside of race, what are the kind of calculations and numbers I can expect to be like? Okay, that doesn't make sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're still trying to convince someone else. You're already convinced. All I've got to convince you to do is be a man and make your own decisions and just smile and say, I've decided to do otherwise. It's risk. It's exactly what it is. And you don't need to take on that risk. Risk? You're 21. You got a marriage and two little babies. Besides that, it doesn't even matter today. We're not even talking about this today. This is all theory over Thanksgiving dinner, arguing with broke people over in the family over Thanksgiving about what you might do five years from now. Bull crap. Just sell a house when you get ready to sell, it's got your house.

[George Kamel]

Let them be upset.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they're not. You don't get a vote. You'd be upset about not having a vote. Mean. Sorry. I mean, George drives a car I don't agree with, but I still like George.

[George Kamel]

We're still friends.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're still friends.

[George Kamel]

He's working.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't get a vote on what car he drives, I can just abuse him about it. Investing may seem complicated or confusing, but it doesn't have to be. The Ramsey Investing and Retirement Hub is packed with a interactive tools including the calculator that'll help you figure out how much you're going to have if you save a certain amount and if you have a certain amount. Wow. Check it all out. Ramsey solutions.com retire or click the link in the Description Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? If your private student loans are in default, you need a lender who sees you and meets you where you are. Why Refi offers low fixed rate plans based on your real ability to pay. Learn more@y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not.

[George Kamel]

In all States Today's question comes from Ariel in Californ, California. My husband and I live in a joint family home with our two kids, my father in law, mother in law and sister in law. The house we live in is in both my husband and his father's name. My father in law gambles and plays lottery on a regular basis. He's 58 with no savings. He works at a gas station and makes 60,000 annually. He has 50,000 in credit card debt, $20,000 on a car. We owe around 50,000 on the house. My husband wants to pay off his father's credit card debt so we don't have to worry about losing the house to pay his father's debts when he passes. My husband and I are debt free other than the house. Would this be a wise thing to do? I haven't seen a wise thing in this whole story yet. This is a nightmare. Oh my goodness.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh Ariel. You guys are not going to do what you are going to have to do, but you're until you're forced to do what you should do, which is not have been in this in the first place. And the only way out of it of course is to sell the house and everybody take their money and go to their corner. But as long as you're attached at the hip to people who are misbehaving with money, you're going to be affected by them. And that's what you guys signed up for in this ridiculous situation. The old woman in the shoe here. And it's just kids are everywhere, people are everywhere, sisters and brothers are everywhere. This is a nightmare. And so wow. I'm sorry.

[George Kamel]

Now question for you Dave. If, if the father dies, the father in law the credit card debt is unsecured debt. But his name's on the mortgage. Would they come after.

[Dave Ramsey]

His name's on. Not the mortgage. The mortgage doesn't matter. His name's on the deed. Yeah, that's what matters.

[George Kamel]

So could they come after them for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Their credit card debt? Not the individual people, but they can put a lien on the house.

[George Kamel]

That's what will happen.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. Because when you die, what you own, the father in law in this case, he owns part of the house, stands good for what you owe his credit card debt due to his gambling habit. And by the way, that's not going to get better because this guy's not going to change. So if you pay off his credit card debt, you know what it's going to do? In a month he's going to have some credit card debt.

[George Kamel]

He gets a clean slate and goes back into debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. Yeah. And there's nothing you can do to stop it. So you know. No, your husband's wrong. Paying off the debt does not help. You guys ought to. At a minimum, you need to get the mortgage paid off and then build as much wealth as you can possibly build and make sure that there is a will involved that upon either of them's death, you guys get the house and then there's some provision for the remaining spouse, the father in law or the mother in law and then sister.

[George Kamel]

In law got thrown in there somewhere.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, sister in law's not one of the owners though.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, she's just living there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, she's just hanging out. But at some point this has to be cleared up. But no, you don't pay off his debt because he's going to run it back up. Then you go bill wealth on the side. And then if he dies and some of the credit card debt has to be cleared to keep the house, then you'll have to do that if you want to keep your house because you signed up for this ridiculous situation. So what would I actually, if I loved all of you, the parents and you, what would I tell you to do? The best thing for you for 10 years from today. How's this turn out? The best. Put the house on the market and sell it and go to your corner.

[George Kamel]

Everyone gets their own place.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everybody gets their own place, gets their own money and you go figure it out. Well, you don't understand. Prices in California make people do stupid things. Yes, I do understand, but that doesn't mean, you know, there's no excuse for stupidity even in California. So you just still have to deal with what you got to deal with. Sorry.

[George Kamel]

Well, then it's, well, Dave, you don't understand my culture. In my culture, we all live together and misbehave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Stupid is not a culture. This is stupid. This is a stupid transaction. It's set up for failure. There's no way this turns out, this is going to go to ashes. There's no way this turns out out it's going to turn out bad for everyone involved. No one's going to end up liking each other. No one's going to end up with a financial blessing from this. No one's going to come away going, oh, that's the smartest financial move I ever made. Those words are never going to be uttered over this deal. It's not where it's going. And so, you know, that's the problem. And so there's no reason good enough to enter into something that's stupid and it's harmful and ignore all of the signs. So, yeah, the only one that's seen. Of course your husband thinks nothing's wrong because he grew up with his dad and he thinks his dad's normal. And yeah, he works at a gas station. He makes 60,000 bucks and he runs up $50,000 in credit card debt buying lottery tickets at the gas station where he works.

[George Kamel]

He just get a different job where he's not. Doesn't have access to lottery tickets so easily, spending all of his paychecks there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Or maybe, I don't know, grow up and be a normal person instead of doing stupid stuff. But yeah, I mean, it's just, oh, gosh, so harsh. So harsh. It's not going to go well, Ariel, for you and your family, because you're not going to deal with it. Your husband's not going to deal with it. He doesn't have the backbone to stand up to his parents to split this thing up. And you guys are going to end up in the soup before this is over. And then you're going to be calling here with a great story that ain't a great story. Sarah's in Montana. Hey, Sarah. What's up? What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. So my question is, how do I reinvent myself after losing my dream job? A little bit of background. I was a county prosecutor. I happened to fail the bar, and now I'm kind of feeling lost.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you can take the bar more than once.

[Caller]

Yes. So I don't know whether or not I should reinvent myself in another area of law that is a higher paying job rather than, well, you're going to pass the bar.

[Dave Ramsey]

Either way.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I am already scheduled to take it in February.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good.

[Caller]

I just don't. Yeah, I just don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why is county prosecutor your dream job when you can make eight times that doing something else in law?

[Caller]

My dad was a career long law enforcement officer. I've also had some things in my past that I've been a victim of abuse as well. And so I had this dream of working with special victims.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you saw it as a crusade, not a dream job. Because financially it's anything but a dream job. Agreed.

[Caller]

Agreed.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a crusader's dream job, though, and that's cool. I like that.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. I just don't know whether or not I should take this time and reinvent myself in another area that will make more money just to pay down some of the debt from law school.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt have you got from law school?

[Caller]

Law school loans alone are about 110. And then I do have some other things on top of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Total way you're using your language. You're single.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How old are you?

[Caller]

You 28.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, Sarah, you're smart. Dumb. People don't get to where you are. Okay. You know, they don't complete law school. They don't land in a county prosecutor's position. They're not scheduled to take the bar for the second time that, you know, you. You have good thinking skills. And so, you know, all you're wanting us to confirm is what you already know. And that is, is that I don't think. And I think you're over dramatizing it, saying to reinvent yourself. I think there's a part of yourself that just becomes an excellent defense attorney and protects victims. Right. Or an excellent prosecutor of some kind later on or whatever. You don't have to go into some obscure corner of the law that doesn't involve crusading. There's all kinds of ways you can crusade within the law and the county prosecutor's office just one place. So it's not reinventing yourself. It's just saying there's other options to apply my passion and my intellect where I can make enough money to get this mess cleaned up. And then I've got more options when I don't have the bills anymore. So, yeah, take five years and go be somebody. Make 200 grand and knock this crap out. And then if you want to, maybe, maybe, you know, I don't know. There's a lot of different ways you could do what you're doing, as you know, and I don't think it's inconsistent with who you are. I don't think it's reinventing yourself. I think it's just another version of your current self. Buying and selling a home is a big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the right deal at the right price. That's why we only recommend RAMD Ramsey trusted real estate agents. They're handpicked pros who know their stuff, listen to your needs and have your back from the first call all the way to closing day. To find a Ramsey trusted agent near you, visit ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent welcome back to the Ramsey show. In the Fair Winds credit union studio. George Camel Ramsey personality number one best selling author and co host of the smart money happy hour. He's my co host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Michelle is in Colorado. Hi, Michelle, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm good.

[Caller]

How are you doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, first of all, thank you so much for taking my call. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. The short of my question is my husband and I are in $205,000 of debt. Where do we start to get ourselves out of this?

[Dave Ramsey]

What kind of debt?

[Caller]

So we have significant student loan debt. We do have two car loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is the student loan debt?

[Caller]

164,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much are the car debts?

[Caller]

The cars are just under 17 each. No, in total.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, what is, what is car number one?

[Caller]

Car number one is mine. It's a Nissan Rogue.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, what's owed on that? I'm sorry, what is owed on the Rogue?

[Caller]

The balance right now is $12,196.65.

[Dave Ramsey]

Perfect. And so the other car has $5,000 on it?

[Caller]

Approximately, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what other debt other than 164, 12 and 5.

[Caller]

We have medical debt which is worth just over 20,000 and then credit card debt which is 4,500.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, perfect. Good for you. And what's your household income?

[Caller]

Our household income right now is $86,399.04 approximately.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what do you guys do for a living?

[Caller]

We both work in corrections. I am a criminal justice case manager and my husband works in juvenile corrections.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and your degrees in criminal justice?

[Caller]

My. Well, my degree is in psychology with a minor in criminal justice.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Did you get your masters?

[Caller]

I did not. This is my bachelor's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and what is all this debt from.

[Caller]

The short answer is I used college to go find myself and did not make smart money choices when I was 19.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you borrowed a lot of money for beer pong in addition to going to school. I got you. Okay, that happens. That happens. Lots of people do it. It's okay. And so now you make $87,000 between the two of you and you got. And you have a normal life except for the fact that you're deep in student lo loan debt.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, we. So, Dave, to give you a full picture, we are, we're legally separated. We're working on reunification. We have an a 17 month old daughter that we're trying to create a better life for. And we just, we're in agreement that we need to tackle this our way. Our ideas of tackling this are different.

[George Kamel]

What's it, what's his idea is.

[Caller]

Well, I, I'll be honest, I don't quite know. Anytime we try to have the financial conversation, I can't really get him to open up. He kind of shuts down.

[Dave Ramsey]

So are you guys in marriage counseling, trying to get back together?

[Caller]

We are meeting with our pastor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. Okay, good. Very good. Okay. Yeah. And so it sounds positive that you're moving in a positive direction with your marriage, staying together. Is that a fair statement? Yes, except for the separation, but yes. Okay. All right. So when we come back together, part of our coming back together with the pastor's guidance, the counselor's guidance, is to be in alignment on how we're going to tackle this. Because this is the hidden stress hanging over your household that's affecting your relationship. And not having a plan that we're unified on how to deal with it is adding to the marriage trouble, if not causing the marriage trouble. Is that fair?

[Caller]

Absolutely. I mean, to the point that. So I've been listening to you. I've known about you for a really long time. We are signed up for Financial Peace University with a lady in our church.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

So we're going to start that on Saturday. I just, I'm not quite sure that he's fully on board.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he didn't have to be. If he goes through the class, I'll get him.

[George Kamel]

As long as he shows up. That's the important part.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's hard to go through that class. If you go to every single class. It's hard to go through that class. We're very convinced. Yeah, he'll be on board. And what, that if I'm talking to him, I'm saying, hey, you don't agree with all this stuff, and you guys are not getting along. But if you want to save your marriage, you've got to be unified and go to the class to at least both of you to agree to tell Dave Ramsey to jump off a cliff or both of you to agree to go. This Ramsey plan has proven we're going to work it. One of the two. But let's get aligned together because you guys have got to be unified on how we're going to attack this. The fact that it's been hanging out in the. The, you know, it's the boogeyman under the bed, and it's terrifying until you turn on the lights. And when we turn on the lights and go, okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to do this, this, this, and this. We're going to work extra. We're going to live on nothing. We're going to be on a budget. Beans and rice, rice and beans. You know, we're going to sell the rogue. We're going to do whatever. I mean, I don't care. We're going to cut up the credit cards, right? And we're going to, you know, we're going to make a list of these debts, and we're going to live on nothing. We're going to pay them off. Smallest. Largest. And we're both aligned on that. Ready, set, go. Break the huddle, Go. And when you do that together, that's going to impact other things you're arguing about positively. In other words, I've had thousands of notes, letters, and individual conversations with people that went through Financial Peace University and said it saved our marriage. And I'm like, well, why? I don't understand. It's about mutual funds and money because it forced us to work together. And when you agree on your spending, you agree on your fe. You agree on your spending, you agree on your goals, you agree on what you value, you agree on your priorities, and you're agreeing on every part of your life. When you agree on your spending, it forces you to discuss every one of those stinking things and get aligned on it. And when you do that, it can take a situation like you're in and be a part of not the whole thing, but be a part of a real, complete healing. But as a psychologist, you know that the complete healing is a spiritual thing, as your pastor knows, and it's a relational thing, and it's learning some skills to deal with each other in a better way than you've been dealing before. But the money's part of that so? Yeah. You guys go to that class together? Girl, you got it. You can do this.

[Caller]

Dave, if I can ask you one more question. Part of all of this is I am the one who makes $34,000 a year. I've always had super big dreams for my career. After having my daughter, the goal is to be a stay at home mom. I'm not sure that's realistic considering our debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not realistic for a while. Yeah, you made that choice when you signed up for 164 grand.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I have a feeling I know what you're going to say to my question. What are your thoughts on me pursuing my law degree?

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know where that came from other than criminal justice, but I would have thought you were going to say master's degree so you could open a practice and make $150,000 a year as a marriage counselor, as a psychologist. That would make more sense than a law degree from where you started.

[George Kamel]

But we've got a math problem here. And on both sides.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't get to any of that until. But you can make more with your degree than you're making now. You just chose to work for the state, but there's other things you can do today to make more and work your way through this. Then you got to decide why you're. If I want to be a stay at home mom, why do I want to have a law degree? It's so inconsistent.

[George Kamel]

What's up, guys? George Camel here. What if I told you that you had thousands of extra dollars hiding in your budget right now? Listen, I know how crazy that sounds. You're thinking, dude, I'm broke. My money's tighter than the middle seat on a spirit flight. But believe it or not, you've got more margin than you think. And our EveryDollar budgeting app helps you find it. In fact, the Average person finds $3015 on average in just the first 15 minutes. That's like giving yourself a huge raise without an awkward conversation with your boss. Now, look, this isn't magic. You're not hitting the lottery. This is just your money that we're helping you reclaim and reorganize. And everydollar shows you how to make the most of it so you can make faster progress on your goals. So don't miss out on thousands of dollars of margin. Go start everydollar for free by downloading the app in the App Store or Google Play right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Top questions people have about wills out there. How do I know if I need a trust or if my Estate is too complicated for an online will. Well, if your estate is north of a million dollars, you got to start talking about whether or not you need an attorney to do the will. But most people die without a will, and that's silly because they didn't spend just a few dollars and get a quick online will. You need to do that immediately if you're an adult. What do I need to start my will online? Well, same stuff you do for any will. You need to figure out who you want to get your stuff, who you want to take care of your minor children, who do you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated, the healthcare, power of attorney and so on. And why would I want an online will versus a traditional one made with a lawyer? Ease and expense. It's, you know, online wills, 50 to 75 bucks, 100 bucks, something like that. You're going to spend 4 or 500 bucks pretty easily with a lawyer. And it's overkill if you don't have a bunch of stuff and you got to go meet with a lawyer. You got to go through all this stuff online. You can just jump on and knock it out in a few minutes. One evening you can have your will done. And you need a will that is state specific to you, the state you currently live in. If you did a will and you live in Indiana, but now you live in Texas, your will is not valid anymore. Hello? Yeah. Because the law is different from state to state on what witnesses are required, what notary public is required, what, you know, what you're allowed to do inside the will. The law changes from state to state and pretty dramatically sometimes. And so you definitely have an update to your will if something major has changed in your life. The number of times we have had the call here, George, where someone got divorced and did not change the beneficiary on their life insurance policy.

[George Kamel]

That's a bad one. There's nothing you can do.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's going to the ex, it's going to who the beneficiary states. So you've got to get those things checked.

[George Kamel]

That 401k, it's hers now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I forgot it to get change my will. So my ex wife, who I hate with a passion, got all my stuff. That was kind of. Yeah, it's kind of lacking in diligence. Hello? Yeah. Yeah. So you got to do this, you got to take care of business, right? Mary's in Arizona. Hi, Mary, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, how are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I love that. So I'M calling because my question is you're probably going to laugh at me or yell at me. It's kind of embarrassing. But how do I use what I can from welfare. I'm currently on welfare to get off welfare and get. Get in a better financial situation. I might be going homeless pretty soon, and my situation just kind of sucks.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not gonna laugh at you or yell at you. I'm really thrilled that you called. Thank you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Old.

[Caller]

Ish.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's old?

[Caller]

40, 45.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm 65, so I don't know what that makes me, but. Okay.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

So basically you're a baby.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're a baby child. Okay, now. All right. Now. Yeah. The. So what have you been doing for work?

[Caller]

So recently, because of my health, I've. And my aging mother's health, I'm basically taking care of her. Her caregiver. She pays me and she doesn't have a lot. My income is only $300 a month. That's it. I'm currently.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you going to be homeless? So they.

[Caller]

Currently.

The welfare I'm on is only housing. I'm not on food stamps anymore, praise God. So that's the only welfare I'm on is the housing. Because of the big beautiful bill, they're kicking people off. And where I am, it's ran by the city. So the city has already informed people that 2026 right around the corner, and.

[Dave Ramsey]

They don't randomly take people off. There was some kind of a qualification you didn't meet.

[Caller]

Right. Because I'm not disabled the way the disabled.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you, you take care of your mom, but you don't live with your mom.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller]

Okay, so I don't live with my mother because she's staying with my sister. She lives with my sister and my sister works. And so I just. I'm her care. Her caregiver. Then when me. Between me and my sister, when my sister gets off work, I go home.

[Dave Ramsey]

And your mom's sharing some of the Social Security check because she didn't have anything either. Right?

[Caller]

Correct. She's. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Back to your original question then. The core answer to your overall problem is income. Right. Work.

[Caller]

And I know. Get, get, get.

[Dave Ramsey]

What? You said you have been unable to work because of your health. What's wrong with you?

[Caller]

So I am. I am disabled, but not the disability doesn't qualify me to get. Disability.

[Dave Ramsey]

What kind of disability do you have? What are you facing?

[Caller]

A lot of female problems that keeps me from working. And then also sugar issues. And we could deal with the sugar issues. You just have to get the right kind of employer.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you just told me you're obese. Did you?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not. Okay.

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. All right, so. Well, I don't, and I don't know how to probe deeper on that. And I wouldn't, probably wouldn't understand what I heard anyway because I'm not knowledgeable in that area. But the answer to your question is to find some methodology to create an income, even given the limitations that you've got. Medical.

[Caller]

Right, Right. If you're hiring, if you want to hire me, I'll take a job. If you willing to train me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That obviously is not. I mean, the point is you've got to figure out, we've got to help you figure out a way to create an income and that begins to solve your problem. And then. No kidding, Dave. But the bigger the income you can create, the faster these problems go away and the further they are in the rearview mirror. Is that agreed?

[Caller]

Correct. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So this has been an ability to work, an inability to work because of medical and other things that then your spirit got kicked around and you start to feel like there's no hope, which makes you not have any energy to move towards getting those jobs.

[Caller]

Well, correct. And then once I, once I start getting and a better income, I'm gonna get kicked off my housing.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're already getting kicked off your housing.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we've got to go get a.

[George Kamel]

Better goal is to get enough income.

[Dave Ramsey]

To cover your own house. And by the way, you called to ask how I could get out of this housing.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Anyway, so that good, we got you kicked out of the housing because you started making too much money, means you're.

[George Kamel]

Moving in the right direction.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great.

[George Kamel]

Does your mom not qualify for Medicaid to get a caregiver? Because either you need to be paid a living wage as a caregiver with some kind of self directed attendant care, or you need to find someone who takes over so you can go to work. But this is not working out to make 300 bucks.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't make 300 bucks a month and live.

[Caller]

Correct, Correct. And so the only, the only. Well, what keeps me going, by the way?

[Dave Ramsey]

She can't get help for 300 bucks a month anywhere else either. Right.

[Caller]

So she doesn't have money to do it the other way.

[Dave Ramsey]

So Medicaid, she's gonna have to, you know, you guys are gonna have to help her get care while you go get a life.

[Caller]

Right. She is on Medicaid. And I did try and go that route, but she, they had told us that she doesn't qualify. Yeah, she would have to be more.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, your sister and you can work on that as a side issue. But the bottom line, George is right. You cannot spend 40 hours a week there making $300 a month and expect to have a life that mathematically doesn't work. Mary Right.

[Caller]

So I did watch your baby steps.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they don't matter until you create an income.

[George Kamel]

You can't do the baby steps on $2 an hour. That's literally what you're making right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you've got to go create income. You have to go create income. You have to go create income. That's the thing. So you hang on. We will send you a couple of books to help you move in that direction. Finding the work I'm wired to do and the proximity principle, both of those will help you. That is what solves this whole thing.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Stacy is in Tennessee. Hi, Stacy. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well. How are you? How are you all doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Good. I'm fairly new to following you all and I have about $3,000 in student loans with about $5,200 in savings. And I also have a wedding on.

[Dave Ramsey]

The way when you get married.

[Caller]

This time next year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool, cool. What do you make a year?

[Caller]

Yes, I make $43,000 gross.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you're having to pay for the wedding?

[Caller]

Wedding, yes. As of right now, we don't know if family will chip in, but we're hoping that they will.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so your fiance will chip in some and you'll chip in some.

[Caller]

Yes. He's currently out of work due to an injury, but as soon as he does is he's able to work again, then yes, that is the case.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. Good, good, good. All right.

[George Kamel]

How much is this wedding gonna cost?

[Caller]

Hopefully no more than $10,000. Not really trying to have something huge and extravagant.

[George Kamel]

So you're debt free today. You can use that savings, knock out the student loans, build up an emergency fund, and save up 10 grand by 12 months from now, Right?

[Caller]

Yes, I guess that's my question. If I should go ahead and take care of the loans and just work towards putting up or saving towards the wedding.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, I want you to see your way to paying for the wedding, because ten grand's not unreasonable with what you're describing. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you said the student loan balance is 3,500, right?

[Caller]

3,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

3,000. Okay. All right, so if we say 10,000 for the wedding, 3,000 for the student loan, you need $13,000. You have?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

$5,200.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so our real need is $8,000.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

See what I'm doing? Five plus eight.

[Caller]

Yes, I see that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thirteen. We got the wedding, and we got the thing. And on top of that, George wants you to have an emergency fund, and I do, too, because stuff's gonna happen, like the car's gonna break and all that kind of crap, Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So we need 13,000 in savings for those two things. We have 5,000. So we need eight. And so $1,000 a month for eight months gets us there, and we have 12 months. So then we would have a little bit to spare. So we need a goal. We need a goal to be debt free and have the wedding paid for and have some extra money of saving at least $1,000 a month, which is really tough on 43,000.

[Caller]

Yes, it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so. But also, Bubba's gonna have to get back to work. When's he back to work?

[Caller]

The doctors said that he should be cleared by the end of this month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[George Kamel]

What was he making?

[Caller]

Yes, he was making a little bit less, about 42,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you got 40. He's got 40. That's 80 to work with. And so if you put in 500amonth. He puts in 500amonth, you guys will be there, right?

[Caller]

Yes. And that's with taking care of the student loans now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. I'd rather check, take over the student loans now, But I'm doing that knowing that we also get to do the work wedding. Because. Because we're both. Yeah, because we're both going to save 500 bucks a month. $1,000 a month total. And that gets us to $12,000 12 months from now. And that on top of the 5,000 that you. Oh, wait a minute. Now you don't. Now you've got 2,000. So now we're up to 14,000, but we only need 10 for the wedding. So that gives us four in the account when we get home from the honeymoon. That's peaceful.

[George Kamel]

Breathe that in.

[Caller]

Yes. You just gave me so much peace by that. You don't even know.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly how it works. But now here's the trick. Okay? You can't go. Oh, we decided. No, you didn't decide. You decided to save. Oh, we needed to. No, you didn't. You decided. Don't tell me any excuses and get up there and go. I'll put my wedding on a credit card. Cause I didn't save my 500 bucks. Okay?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So give you a game plan. Now you gotta execute, kiddo. All right.

[George Kamel]

And by the way, are you stuck making 43,000? Could you take on an extra side hustle until I could too?

[Caller]

I'm actually working on. I'm doing doordash and I'm working on working, doing the driving service for Walmart, trying to do in between because I do ministry work. So I have to travel quite a bit for ministry. But the in between, when I am in town, I'm working on doing those two.

[George Kamel]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is the ministry a paid position or a volunteer position?

[Caller]

It is paid. I'm at the headquarters for the nonprofit, which is the ministry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

That's your 43 grand?

[Caller]

Yes, that's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's your job. Oh, okay, I'm sorry, I misunderstood.

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And then in addition to that, you're doing doordash.

[Caller]

Okay, yes, in addition. Yeah, that I cannot doordash full time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool, cool. And what's your fiance do for bit? A little living.

[Caller]

He works in the pharmacy industry right now, but he's working on actually going towards it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good, good. So, hey, these are good answers because you've got a trajectory that's going to cause you guys to make more, save more, be able to give more, be able to be more comfortable in the ministry role because you're going to be under control with your money flow. Okay.

[Caller]

Yes, yes. Thank you so much.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you. Hang on. I'm going to send you a copy of a book called the Total Money Makeover as our wedding gift in advance of this paid for $10,000 wedding. See, I just spoke that over you. You heard that, right? All right, Adam's in Texas. What's up, Adam?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. How you doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, So I am 30 years old, a wife and one beautiful daughter. I've been in the insurance industry for just under 10 years now on property and casualty. And I've built my book of business up from $0 to just over $640,000 in that time. The company I work at is now bringing in equity partners, which is changing the structure of our business pretty dramatically. In this bio, I'm losing ownership of my book of business, but in exchange I'm being paid two times its value, which equates to just under $1.3 million. My question today is should I pay off our mortgage and any remaining debt and invest and save the rest of it or should I keep the mortgage and use that money for additional investments?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What happens to your career when all this damage.

[Caller]

Career as far as I'm planning is going to stay the same? My commission structure is changing to something that's a bit more industry standard. So you know, I'll take a small hit to one the of I'm taking home right now because I'm going from a 1099 to a W2. But you know that that's a small adjustment in the, in the wake of things.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you no longer have equity position because you're being bought out.

[Caller]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So any grow, any growth that occurs from this point forward, you get none of it.

[Caller]

I'll still get the extra.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, you get commission, but you don't get to build a book of business again.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Kamel]

Well, you missed that.

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely. That's still a bit shocking to deal with. But you know, it's kind of the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you under a non compete.

[Caller]

Ride the wave and be grateful? Yes, I will be.

[Dave Ramsey]

For how long?

[Caller]

We haven't received final terms. I believe it's going to be between three to five years, depending on the person.

[Dave Ramsey]

That would be normal. Yeah. Okay.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Because a lot of people that. I mean it sounds like this was forced upon you. The language you're using doesn't sound like you sought this out. So the answer to your question is yes, I would pay off your mortgage and yes, I pay off all my debt because I don't find people that say, oh, I became a millionaire by borrowing on my house to invest. That's not what I find. The millionaires that we talk to go, I got out of debt. And so what do you owe on your home? Home?

[Caller]

Currently we owe 391,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Perfect. What are the debt?

[Caller]

Do you have just the car?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so 450 clears you out of 1.3, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And then what I would do is bucket a. You're an analytical, careful, wise, frugal person. I would bucket a number that is uncomfortable to you but very comfortable to Your wife to spend on fun.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Like go on a ridiculous trip or buy her a much better car because her car sucks or whatever. Right? I don't care what it is, but find something that comes under the heading of fun or something.

[George Kamel]

Put some sweat on your brow when you hear the number.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, some things.

[George Kamel]

So spend, save, give. That's the only three things you can do with money. And I would do all three with the money that's left over once you pay off the debt. Congratulations, fun problem to have overnight. Millionaire. Just like that. From all his hard work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day, 2nd Corinthians 12, 9. My grace is sufficient for you. My power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on me. Simon Sinek said, the goal is not to be perfect by the end. The goal is to be better. Today, Chris is with us in Florida. Hi, Chris. How are you?

[George Kamel]

Hi, Dave.

[Caller]

Thanks for taking my call. I have an investment question. For the past five years, I've been building one spec house a year, and I've taken my profits over the past five years and built myself a nice house. I was able to buy the house next to me for cash. Everything out of pocket, everything's paid for. Got myself out of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

And I've got. However, the house I bought. I was out of money and it needed remodeling. So I took out a loan on that house to get it remodeled. Now?

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right.

[Caller]

Right now I'm back into debt. However, I'm clearing 1100amonth off of that house. But all my money has been spent and I want to continue building spec houses. Now my personal house has paid off. My question is, should I take a loan out on my personal house to continue my spec houses?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Is this what you do for a living? Living?

[Caller]

No. I do this on the side. I do this on the weekends after work, at night.

[Dave Ramsey]

I got you. What price range of homes are you building?

[Caller]

They're selling for 250.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

They're costing me around 120 to build.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what's your household income?

[Caller]

Personally, I'm at a hundred thousand. Without my spec houses. We add that In, I'm around 200,000. Thousand. My job, I make about 100.

[George Kamel]

Why do you have no money all of a sudden?

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you put it in these two houses.

[George Kamel]

You just keep reinvesting and it gets locked up in the houses.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not making 200?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you're not making. You're doing one spec a house a year.

[Caller]

And I'm making a hundred thousand a year off the spec house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

I just feel like there should be more profit sitting around versus you being brushed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, what's the, what's the rental house worth?

[Caller]

Well, okay, rental house is, I'm guessing that's going to appraise for 250 to 300. My personal house will probably appraise from 350 to 4. So I've only been doing this for five years. I'm 56. And I came out of divorce at 50.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I came out of that with my truck, my dog, and a hundred thousand dollars.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

That's when I started doing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Well, it sounds like you know now here, here's the thing. You understand, okay. And you know this. I think you've experienced it that when you have a spec house, meaning you're speculating, you have an inventory item that has no debt on it, you interact with a potential buyer completely different than if you're paying construction loan payments on that house.

[Caller]

House.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have to put up with a crazy buyer.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can and you don't have to discount it because I'm stuck in it and the bank wants me to get the note cleared.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can just sit there and wait until I get the right buyer. And that's how you've maximized your profits because you've not put everything at risk. And now you're getting ready to flip your model on its head and start taking on a bunch of risk. And to. It's going, going to change the way you interact in this. It's going to take a lot of joy out of it. And so no, I would not go this route. I do think I grew up in the real estate and the building business and I've owned real estate and done rehabs and built stuff my whole life. And I do think I'm talking to a guy who actually knows how to do it. Most people that say they know how to do it as, you know, are full of crap. But I think I'm actually talking to a guy that knows how to do this. I think you really know how to do it. And so that's going to change. That's going to change my advice a little bit. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would sell my rental if I were you and I would build three spec houses.

[Caller]

You know, I agree with you business wise. But here's my problem. It got personal feelings come into play. This house is right next to mine. I'm worried about who's Going to buy it. What kind of neighbor I'm going to have?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you get to the side. You get to the side. Then that, sir, you get to decide that. You can't discriminate on sale based on race, creed, color, national origin, but you can discriminate based on, based on jerk. I'm serious, you can decide that. I just sold a house next door to me and I refuse. And you know, we had people looking at it. I'm like, nah, I don't think so. And we've got the sweetest lone couple over there right now. And we're, they're going to be best friends. We're going to lot we love of them. And you can just decide that. So no, I, I don't think I'm trading that one issue for all of your piece. I think you can do two spec houses a year minimum and make 200,000 while you make a hundred thousand at work with cash and be able to maximize your profits because you don't get in a bank pinch. I am talking to a guy who's never been in a bank pinch. If you have been, it's been a long time time and you've forgotten how it feels.

[Caller]

Oh, I've been at a bank.

[Dave Ramsey]

I hate those sons of a gun with a passion and I don't want to put you back at their mercy.

[Caller]

Yeah, I agree. I'm, I'm out of it now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Why go back in the bear trap, man?

[George Kamel]

Not worth it. What's left on your debt on the Renault? Sure, what's left on the debt? The loan you took out.

[Caller]

I took out a hundred thousand. I put 60 in it and put 40 back.

[George Kamel]

Back. So you sell the rental, pay off the debt, you got some left over.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got enough to do two, you got enough to do spec. Two.

[Caller]

Two specs, yeah. I could probably squeeze out two if I sell that.

[George Kamel]

That feels like it'd be worth it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's, that's what I'm doing for sure.

[George Kamel]

That's going to create some peace and get you out of debt. And then I'm never going back in.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm okay being the tortoise rather than the hair because every time I read the book, the tortoise wins. It's people that get in a hurry that trip over their own feet, including me. That's how I went broke in my 20s because I got in a big hurry and I built a house of cards. I got rich quick, literally. And it turns out the best way to get rich quick is get rich slow.

[George Kamel]

If you Want to keep it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's the best plan you can have. And that's Chris, I think you really do know how to do this. And a lot of these guys have been watching Flip this House on Tic Tac, and they don't know what they're really doing, but I think this guy's really doing it.

[George Kamel]

Well, all of culture tells you to just go, borrow against it. Borrow against it, do the Burr method, go do the next one, borrow against that. That's how the wealthy do it. And they don't talk about when it goes wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not true. It's not how the wealthy do it. It's just. That's a complete fabric.

[George Kamel]

You're living proof, Dave. That's not how the wealthy do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, no. I mean, all of them we meet with, they don't tell us. You know, I. I stayed leveraged my whole life, and I lived in anxiety and. Oh, and I made well, but I got wealthy. That's not what they tell me. They went dangerous. We were kind of boring, and we went slow, and we paid for cash as we went. That's what they all tell us every time we interview them.

[George Kamel]

Well, that's why they don't have the real estate course. It'd be a terrible course if you just went, well, pay cash, go slow.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's why I don't have one.

[George Kamel]

It would be 2 cents.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's why I haven't written a book on how to buy real estate. It's short.

[George Kamel]

Now, you broke down. In Investing Essentials, we do this virtual event where you actually break down your real estate principles. And it's fascinating, but the actual math behind it is save up, pay cash. And, yeah, it's going to take you a little while to get that first one.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then there's this, what's known as a cash on cash, return on investment. Hello. I mean, yeah. So, yeah, Chris is in a position to do that. It's just choosing, what do you want more? And if I'm listening to his story, if I was in his shoes, I would want to build those specs more than I wanted that rental.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, well, it doesn't sound like he wants to be in the landlord business. He likes building the specs and selling them and making a profit.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's trying to control who lives next door. He didn't want Cray Cray to move in next door. I don't blame him. I don't blame him. But this is a guy that doesn't like drama. So don't invite the banker into your Living room. No, thank you. You don't like drama? Keep bankers out of your life. They're not good for the drama factor. They bother mess up everything. Yeah, Chris, I think you're really good at this. And so I think I would go build a couple houses a year with cash. And, you know, I bought a house. There's a family here in our area, third generation, they're now on 4th gen. Gen 4 is now building houses. But great grandpa bought a bunch of land out here when nobody was out here, out in the country. And now the country came to city doesn't come to the country, you know, kind of thing. So moved out here and they ended up with it. And they've been developing residential lots for years, and they build spec houses, expensive spec houses with cash. And it's hilarious. You go into this maze, million and a half house, and they go, well, you know, I don't like the countertops in this one. And I would like to have a different color in the living room. And they say, fine, you can do that after you move in. I love it. They're not desperate. They don't do anything. They won't change a thing. And they don't build custom because they don't want to put up with people.

[George Kamel]

That's amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's always ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.