Face the Debt You’ve Been Avoiding

Summary

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The Ramsey Show – "Face the Debt You’ve Been Avoiding"

Host: Rachel Cruze with Dr. John Delony
Date: February 6, 2026
Podcast Theme:
Empowering listeners to take control of their finances and relationships, no matter past mistakes, by facing debt honestly, rebuilding trust, and making smart, practical decisions. This episode is filled with real listener calls on topics ranging from financial infidelity to debt payoff strategy, family boundaries, and couples’ communication.

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Main Topics & Highlights

1. Financial Infidelity & Rebuilding Trust

[00:38 – 09:01]

• Caller: Kate from Indianapolis discovers her husband secretly took out $350k in loans for day trading and lost it.
• Key Insights:
  • Importance of separating finances immediately in cases of deep mistrust.
  • Rebuilding trust must come before merging finances again.
  • Protect yourself immediately: open a separate account, demand access/logins to all finances, freeze credit for all family—including children—to prevent further fraud.
  • Accept the process of “uncovering in waves” as more details may surface gradually.
• Memorable Quotes:
  • Dr. Delony (03:46): “Taking money advice from the person who lost your money is like taking dating advice from someone who cheated on you.”
  • Rachel (04:38): “If I were you, I would be separating everything right now because this part of your marriage no longer has trust.”
  • Dr. Delony (07:45): “You learned something two weeks ago, and then you found something out last night… I’d predict there are going to be waves of you uncovering things.”

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2. Debt Payoff: Real-Life Strategies

A. Facing Large Debts with Medical Uncertainty

[10:29 – 13:48]

• Caller: Marshall, dealing with $50k in debt, a $92k mortgage, wife’s ongoing medical issues, $8k in savings.
• Advice:
  • Sell the truck to free up cash flow.
  • Do not touch retirement savings for consumer debt.
  • Focus on immediate actions, not "what ifs" about future income.
  • When wife starts work, use increased income to accelerate debt payoff.

B. Don’t Rush to Buy a House Mid-Move with Debt

[13:58 – 19:47]

• Caller: Joseph and wife moving to Columbia, SC, tempted to buy a house on a VA loan while still in debt.
• Advice:
  • “When broke people buy houses, they become broker.”
  • Rent for a year, pay off debt, build emergency fund, and save for a down payment.
  • Avoid the VA loan due to high fees—get a conventional loan when ready.
  • Massive encouragement to live on one income (or less) and pay off all debt before buying.

C. Renting vs. Owner Financing

[24:39 – 30:29]

• Caller: Travis, San Antonio, dealing with unstable housing after an emergency, minimal savings, considering renting vs. owner finance option from boss.
• Advice:
  • Avoid owner-financing from your boss; keep personal and professional boundaries clear.
  • Rent within 25% of take-home pay.
  • Build up emergency fund before even considering homeownership again.
  • Consider wife working part-time or side hustles to solve income problem.

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3. Culture: Sports Betting and Money (Rant Segment)

[32:24 – 36:33]

• Rachel goes on a passionate rant about the explosion and normalization of sports betting.
• Target audience is young men distracted from meaningful financial goals.
• Compares money spent on betting to what could fund Roth IRAs, credit card payments, or real needs.
• Quotes:
  • Rachel (32:53): “It’s getting under my skin more and more… Y’ all are so annoying… Y’ all are complaining you can’t afford a house and I’m like, y’ all are so, y’ all are annoying!”
  • Dr. Delony (33:28): “It’s predatory… Like the first joint is free, your first bets are free—it’s predatory.”

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4. Insurance & Investments: Whole Life vs. Term Life

[36:41 – 41:47]

• Caller: Amber, husband has a whole life insurance gifted as a kid, now questionable value.
• Advice:
  • Cash out whole life policy—returns are dismal over decades.
  • Invest proceeds in index funds or use as extra emergency cushion.
  • Use term life for meaningful coverage.

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5. Complex Marital/Relationship Debt & Family Blending

A. Divorce, Home Buyouts, and Boundaries

[53:54 – 63:40]

• Caller: Janelle, Philadelphia—divorcing, needs to buy out ex-husband’s equity ($48k), pays alimony, parents help ex with lawyer.
• Advice:
  • Don’t carry mortgage payment over 25% of household income; calculate carefully.
  • Consider selling the house if keeping it is more about sentiment than financial sense.
  • Emphasize accepting the new life chapter and minimizing disruption, but don’t let “the memories” cloud financial wisdom.
  • “Metabolize: the life you had is over—what do you want this new one to look like?” (62:31)

B. Complex Blended Family and Debt

[97:43 – 105:56]

• Caller: Grace, Salt Lake City—each partner in process of divorce, sharing finances/rent/kids, $91k debt, expecting child.
• Advice:
  • Do NOT combine finances until both are legally divorced; function as roommates.
  • Each person must focus on their own stability prior to combining.
  • Protect yourself legally and financially, even if emotionally you feel like a couple.

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6. Couples and Money Management Dynamics

[86:44 – 92:00]

• Caller: Austin, Salt Lake City—recently married, feels burdened by being sole financial manager; fears wife would be lost if anything happened.
• Advice:
  • Both partners must be involved in financial decisions, even if only one “pushes the buttons.”
  • Opposites attract, but adults must do things they don’t “like”—each pulls weight.
  • Ownership of finances means regular, mutual discussions beyond just “spreadsheets.”
• Quote:
  • Rachel (91:09): “She’s an adult. She may not want to do this, but she needs to because she’s an adult and we have to do things we don’t always like.”

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7. Generosity vs. Becoming the Family ATM

[118:59 – 127:26]

• Caller: April, St. Louis—high net-worth but family (parents, sister) is in recurring financial crisis, she bails them out often.
• Discussion:
  • Best generosity comes from intentionality and healthy boundaries.
  • Don’t confuse enabling with stewardship.
  • For parents: differentiate between helping (especially in old age) and continuing to support unhealthy financial patterns.
  • For siblings: set clear “last time” boundaries, tie help to specific actions/commitment (e.g., budget meeting).
  • Merge finances with spouse and make bailout strategy a joint decision.

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8. Inspirational Debt-Free Story

[107:07 – 116:34]

• Matthew & Bri from Nashville:
  • Paid off $110,000 in 10 months (cars, student loans, personal loans); sold house, moved cross-country, lived in a tiny house for a time.
  • Key Takeaway: Teamwork and communication, forcing themselves to “sacrifice together,” reaps lasting freedom and flexibility.

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Notable Quotes & Moments by Timestamps

• Dr. Delony (03:46): “Taking money advice from the person who lost your money is like taking dating advice from someone who cheated on you.”
• Rachel (32:53): “It’s getting under my skin more and more… sports betting. Y’ all are so annoying!”
• Rachel (49:16): “There are moments to pause baby step two to take care of yourself—or someone around you.”
• Dr. Delony (84:00): “The biggest [marriage issue]: people running ‘my money/your money’ instead of ‘our money.’”
• Rachel (85:20): “You both need to be involved in seeing what’s going on.”
• Dr. Delony (84:37): “Financial infidelity: secrets, lies, and deception.”
• Rachel (91:09): “She may not want to do this, but she needs to because she’s an adult and we have to do things we don’t always like.”
• Janelle (54:20): “My question is: What would be the best way to buy my ex, man-child, spouse out of my home?”
• Matthew & Bri (116:21): “Three, two, one: WE’RE DEBT FREE!”

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Key Takeaways and Practical Wisdom

• Financial trust, once broken, must be rebuilt slowly and intentionally. Immediate separation of accounts and complete transparency are essential.
• Do not rush into buying homes, especially when in debt. Renting provides vital breathing room and reduces future risk.
• Never take major financial advice from those who have made major blunders or those unable to be honest with money.
• Generosity toward family must be balanced with boundaries—don’t let guilt or enabling ruin your wealth and well-being.
• In marriage, avoid “his and hers” money—true partnership means joint visibility, responsibility, and planning.
• Work together, sacrifice together, and celebrate together for the most enduring financial transformations.

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Segment Timestamps Index

• [00:38] Kate’s financial infidelity crisis
• [10:29] Marshall – Medical bills & truck debt
• [13:58] Joseph – Don’t buy a house with debt
• [24:39] Travis – Avoiding owner finance, income struggles
• [32:24] Rachel’s rant: Sports betting
• [36:41] Amber – Whole life insurance
• [53:54] Janelle – Divorce, house buyout, boundaries
• [86:44] Austin – Couples/money management
• [97:43] Grace – Blended families, legal & financial boundaries
• [118:59] April – Where generosity becomes enabling
• [107:07] Matthew & Bri – Debt free scream

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Final Call to Action

If you’re struggling with debt, relationship stress, or family expectations, face the problems with openness, set strong boundaries, and work your plan—you are never as stuck as you think.
As Rachel concludes:
“There's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.”

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For more resources, visit: www.ramseysolutions.com

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Rachel Cruz]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. And I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. And we're answering your calls at 888-8255. All right, first up we have Kate in Indianapolis. Hi, Kate. Welcome to the show.

[Caller or Guest]

Hi, John and Rachel.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hello. Hello. How can we help today?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, so I'm a stay at home mom.

I have a one year old and.

I have another baby due in July. I've been married four years and my husband just sat down with me in the last two weeks and revealed to me that he took out $350,000 in loans and he lost it all. He was using it to invest in day trading.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh my.

[Caller or Guest]

And so it was a real, real shock to me. I just would like some direction from you guys or some answers as to what you think I should do in all aspects.

Should I get a job?

You know, marriage advice, stuff like that.

[Rachel Cruz]

God, Kate, I'm so sorry. When did, when did you find this out?

[Caller or Guest]

It was a little over a week ago.

[Rachel Cruz]

How did you find out? Did he, did he come to you and tell you or did you find something?

[Caller or Guest]

He came to me and told me and I did discover that it has been going on our whole marriage. I just found that out last night.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So before, where was he getting these loans from?

[Caller or Guest]

So my husband is self employed. He started his own business like two years ago and he has, his business has done really well and we would have been fine. Like our business was successful. He does excavation and I don't know, I'm still not at the bottom of.

You know, the purpose of doing that.

But.

Anyway, his business was doing really.

Well and so that's why he was able to get such loans, if that makes sense.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So he used, he take out business loans?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, he took out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He told banks, I'm borrowing this money for my business and then he day traded it. So he committed a crime too.

[Caller or Guest]

I wasn't aware that was a crime.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's fraud.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay?

[Dr. John Deloney]

If I go to a bank and say, hey, I want to open a restaurant and they go cool. And they give me money for my restaurant and I go day trade it. Yeah, that's fraud.

[Caller or Guest]

I'm not sure if it's a business loan. I just know he has three loans and I know the names of the places he has them through.

[Rachel Cruz]

So you don't know if it's like a personal loan or a small business loan.

[Caller or Guest]

I know that some of them are per. I think they're.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, they'll all be personal.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, but you're not taking it out on the business. To John's point.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Gosh, Kate, how much do you guys make a year?

[Caller or Guest]

He pays himself as a W2 employee with his company, and he. 60,000 a year is how he does it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

We will be filing bankruptcy in March. It's not even optional. There's no way out.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Have you guys spoken to an attorney?

[Caller or Guest]

We have. And that was. That was the question I had.

Should I get a job?

My husband doesn't think it's in my best interest to get a job because he thinks it actually might hurt the.

Situation more than help it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because you're what, like showing more income or something?

[Caller or Guest]

Because we file our taxes jointly. And so he thinks that's going to increase our household income.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dude, you're so far past that situation. Here's what you have. Here's what getting a job would do for you right now. Like, the world you knew as of like two weeks ago doesn't exist anymore. The integrity of the man you anchored your life to doesn't exist anymore. And like, you owning that reality is really important.

[Caller or Guest]

I understand that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And taking money advice and, well, it's gonna bracket us from the person that just did that. That's like. That's like your spouse cheating on you and then giving you dating advice. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm not taking that. That kind of advice from you in this moment right now.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, you guys are much smarter and wiser than I, so what do you have to say?

[Dr. John Deloney]

We call it financial infidelity.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Yeah. So, Kate, if I were you, I would be. I would be separating everything right now because this part of the. Of your marriage no longer has trust. Right. And John can talk about what it looks like to rebuild that, but for you. And you're expecting, right?

[Caller or Guest]

A baby, correct?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Caller or Guest]

And I already have a one year old.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, probably. Like, what I would probably do today is I would go down to the bank and get a separate checking account, and when he pays himself, I would split it 50, 50 and just have your own money in an account for right now. And then you guys need to look at what it looks like going forward, because for you to. What John's saying is like creating safety for you, Kate, is what I'm looking for here. In a financial situation now, you having a Baby and being pregnant like that. I mean it does, it adds so many complexities because you go and put the kid in daycare and try to get a part time job. I mean realistically like you know, probably not like daycare is going to cost as much as. You know what I mean, I know how expensive that stuff is. So yeah. So looking at it. So what I would do probably right now is I would tell him I need 50% of the paycheck and I'm having my own account because you need to start rebuilding your own side of your, of the finances in marriage. And then unless you guys can get to a point where you are rebuilding your marriage and the trust of the money comes after all of that. But you're going to probably be in a holding pattern for a bit. And I wouldn't, I would want every login information. I would have every account. I would freeze his credit so he can't go and borrow more for years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Freeze yours.

[Rachel Cruz]

Freeze yours. Your child's too. People take out loans and their kids names and commit fraud that way. And the thing with what he's done and I don't obviously we don't know him but. And John, you probably could squeeze this way better than I can. But when you find yourself in a hole that deep, you almost become crazy. Like you start to like make decisions that aren't even rational to out of the freak out of trying to get yourself out of this much of a mess.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're going to survival, you know, you're not thinking anymore.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. There's no rational. So him like excuse.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's not excuse but it's a context.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So like him taking money out on one year old. Most people are like that would be crazy. I'm like yeah, but he would be in that desperate situation that he'd probably go and do things like that. Right. So you're just trying to at this point I would put as much protection around yourself from a cash flow perspective that's realistic and that he can't tap into anything else. And I would, yeah, I mean I would make sure you have every login account. Do you guys have, I mean do you have investments? I mean all like when you file bankruptcy they're going to be taking it so much.

[Caller or Guest]

Like do they talk about like your like what investments as far as like.

[Rachel Cruz]

401K Roth IRAs, do you guys have any of those?

[Caller or Guest]

He does.

Okay, so I have one but it's just in my name. So they're not going to touch it because all the loans are in his name, not mine.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I would have. I would even get just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't know if that's how that works.

[Rachel Cruz]

The login information on all of that. Like Juni, I would get as much information as you can to have access to what you need to get to if the time comes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you. You just explained it. You learned something two weeks ago, and then you found something out last night. I. I think I can probably count on one hand the number of times somebody has come forward with a spouse and said, hey, I screwed up, I've been cheating, I screwed up with our money. I haven't been employed for a year, whatever, and they get the whole story the first time out. So for you, I would guess that there are. I would. I would predict that there are going to be waves of you uncovering and finding things out. And so the conversation you begin with your husband starts like this. You, husband have burned our trust to the ground. For the next seven days, Here's a roadmap that I want you to follow that we can start practicing in teeny, tiny, tiny little ways to rebuild trust. I want every login, I want our credit reports, I want my own checking account. And then seven days from now, we're gonna get. You're gonna give him another roadmap, very clear that he can follow. And then he gets to decide whether he's gonna follow that.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Rachel Cruz]

Up next, we have Marshall in Kansas City. Hi, Marshall.

[Caller or Guest]

Hi.

[Rachel Cruz]

How are you? We're doing great. How can we help today?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I have about $50,000 in debt and about a $92,000 mortgage, and I have a little bit in savings because my wife had some medical issues that we are still waiting on the bills on. So I didn't know the best way to handle upcoming bills that we don't know. Totals on.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, What's. What's the medical issue? What's going on?

[Caller or Guest]

She was having some heart issues. She's seen the cardiologist and other things like that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, how much you guys have saved for that?

[Caller or Guest]

I have $8,000 in savings right now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And are you guys at the beginning of this or. These will be kind of final medical bills once they hit?

[Caller or Guest]

It's still going on. She's still seeing the Doctors.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, the 50k in debt, what. Can you break that down for me? What? Each.

[Caller or Guest]

That is $18,000 on a truck and $32,000 in student loans.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. How much you guys make a year?

[Caller or Guest]

Right now she's in nursing school. I don't know yearly, but I make $864 a week.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so what do you guys bring home a month? What hits your checking account each month?

[Caller or Guest]

Almost $4,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

4,000. Okay. Okay. I mean, honestly, Marshall, just. Just seeing everything right now. I would sell the truck.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. How. How much could you get for it, do you think?

[Caller or Guest]

Maybe 30?

[Rachel Cruz]

You could get 30 for it?

[Caller or Guest]

Probably.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my gosh. All day.

[Caller or Guest]

It's pretty new.

I've been. I've been paying a lot extra on it every month.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sell it this weekend.

[Caller or Guest]

I'll be paid off in the next six months.

[Rachel Cruz]

You could get it paid off in.

[Caller or Guest]

The next six months if I depleted the savings. And I also have 10,000 in retirement that I was told I could pull out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, no, no, no. Don't do that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I would not. I wouldn't touch retirement to pay off consumer debt. So I would leave. Leave that 10,000 there. That's not worth the truck at this.

[Caller or Guest]

Point because she's also in school right now, and we'll start working come May. When she graduates nursing school in May.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. What will she. Does she have any idea what she'll be making?

[Caller or Guest]

40 something an hour.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But, I mean, that's assuming she doesn't have heart troubles and she doesn't have medical issues, right?

[Caller or Guest]

Correct.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's just a lot of what ifs down the road. I would. I would act on what you have in your hand right now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So, I mean, honestly, if you could get 30 for it. That's unbelievable. I mean, I would take it and then, I mean, I would spend maybe five grand. Five, six grand. Yeah, four grand, whatever you can, just to get something significantly cheaper, obviously.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

And then, Yeah, I mean, and then out of that, you'll have probably 10ish left over 8 to 10,000. And then throw that at the student loans, you know, and you'll be down to, at that point, probably 22 to 24,000, which is amazing. Like, that's a, that's a significant jump going. You just cut. You just basically cut everything in half, debt wise. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then if in 24 months, if she's making 40 bucks an hour and you keep working hard, then go get whatever truck you want, man. You can just write a check for it. Yep.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, sounds good.

[Caller or Guest]

I appreciate it. Thank you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. Absolutely. Thanks, Marshall. All right, let's go to Joseph in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Joseph. Welcome to the show.

[Caller or Guest]

Hey, guys, how you doing?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

So, my wife Tally and I are moving to Columbia, South Carolina in mid March. We're actually in Texas right now. We want to buy a house on the VA loan. And we want to do this for two reasons. One, we want to start building equity on real estate. And in Colombia, it's cheaper to buy than it is to rent. In terms of monthly mortgage, here are the caveats. We still are $40,000 in debt between two cars and her subsidized student loans. And we do have around 16,000 in our joint brokerage in our high yield savings. But I was wondering if you guys have any advice moving forward for us.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Don't do anything you're about to do.

[Rachel Cruz]

Don't buy a home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're going to hate our. You're going to be mad that you called us.

[Rachel Cruz]

I know. Because when broke people buy houses, they become broker is what happens. So, yeah, the monthly payment may not be. But when the roof leaks and the water goes out and I mean, and then life starts happening. As a homeowner, you guys have no money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or put it this way, you're. You want to build equity on one side of the equation, and at the exact same time, you're paying a fixed interest rate on a depreciating asset on two different cars on the other side of this teeter totter.

[Caller or Guest]

Right, right.

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you. It's like I want to fill this bathtub up really high and I just shot two holes in the back of it.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so it's like getting your whole house. Get your whole house in order and then, man, if you guys move focused with focused intensity, you'll be saving up and get a down payment. No time.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And moving to a new city. Anyways, Joseph, we always recommend just rent for a year just to get the bearings. I mean, I, you know, Columbia's. It's such a great. It's such a great city. But I even think about Nashville.

[Dr. John Deloney]

When I moved to Nashville, my wife and I rented for a year.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. There's so many different parts and neighborhoods, and you're just like, okay, what, you know, what side of the city do you want to live on? What does commute look like? What does traffic look like? I mean, there's so many things to consider when you buy a home. I mean, that's such a long term purchase. And to rush into something in the name of building equity. Right. It's the wrong approach is what's happening. You're kind of going from the other end, so. Yeah. So you guys moving rent for a year, how much will you guys be making?

[Caller or Guest]

So between the two of us, we make about 160 per year.

[Rachel Cruz]

Amazing.

[Caller or Guest]

She makes. Yeah, she makes about 75. I make about 90.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Give or, give or take. The year is good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Will you make that same amount in South Carolina?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I mean, I work from home as a civil engineer and she's in the air Force.

[Rachel Cruz]

Amazing. Okay, so here's what I would do, Joseph, honestly, if I were you. Do you guys have kids?

[Caller or Guest]

No, not yet.

[Rachel Cruz]

No. Okay, so yeah, I would go. Go to Columbia. I would rent for a year. I would take my 16,000 and I would throw it at the smallest debt. What do you owe on the. What do you owe on the cars?

[Caller or Guest]

So I owe about 20,000 on my truck and she owes about 15,000 to a Navy federal loan we took out for a used atlas.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And then what's the student loans?

[Caller or Guest]

I think it's about 10,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

10,000 there. Okay, so, Yep. So I would, I would throw 10,000 of the student loans tonight. Just get those knocked out completely, and then you'll have 5,000. I want you to keep $1,000 as an emergency fund. Take her car down to 10,000. Okay, so then you guys have $30,000 and left in debt. And what I would do is you guys make 160. I would live on 60. Like live on nothing. Like get a crappy one bedroom apartment, have no lifestyle, and you 100 grand. Right. So you go. I mean, of course this is before taxes, but the idea is that you pay off all the debt, you'll have $70,000 part of that will be an emergency fund. And then part of that's an amazing start to a down payment. And then you do that even for not even one more year, six more months, and get at least a 5% down payment. And I would avoid the VA loan. There's so many fees. It's not a great option. Okay. So I would just do a traditional mortgage, 15 year fixed rate mortgage and put at least 5% down on a home. And I think, Joseph, you can do all of this in 18 to 24 months, pay off all your debt, get an emergency fund, get a down payment, and I promise you the piece you will have doing that, having no payments, no debt, no risk, a fully funded emergency fund. Heading into homeownership like that is so much more of an enjoyable process than having two car loans, student loans, not a ton of savings that could be wiped out in a second. And you know what I mean? And you're just. You're just living on the edge there. So. So, yeah, that's what I would do.

[Caller or Guest]

Sure.

Thanks, guys.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call, man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We had to tell two people, I don't know if. Sell their cars.

[Rachel Cruz]

I don't know if they're gonna do it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Neither of them are gonna do it.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, no, I wouldn't tell them to sell it. They can pay theirs off. Yeah, Joseph can. Yeah, yeah. Because they'll get hers down to 10, and then they have his $20,000 truck, but they make 160. I mean, they can, they can. You're always about selling stuff.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, I just don't. I think when somebody gets their mindset on, I'm going to buy a house no matter what, he's going to. It's so hard to back up and say, I'm going to do that, but in two years.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it's so hard on this side of the equation to be like, I'm telling you that 24 months is so worth it. It's so worth it. It's so worth it. And it's almost like someone has to go through it and then their car that they owe a payment on breaks down and they roll that negative equity and they're going to call us back in two years.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And they're going to be like, man, I should have listened.

[Rachel Cruz]

I know. Yeah. Joseph, you may not take the advice, but I'd implore you, bro.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're like 18 months away from changing your life forever in a positive direction. Hang in there, man.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

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[Rachel Cruz]

Well, we know that through work here, surveys, studying people, all the situations.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What are you talking about?

[Rachel Cruz]

There are so many people, though, in their marriages that are frustrated, they're overwhelmed, they're lonely, and we have the answer for you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We've got it.

[Rachel Cruz]

We've got the whole answer. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So, and let me say this. For years, I pushed back on this. I said, I don't think we could get a. We could get something that would help in the way that I think people need help. And the zeros and ones, guys here, we all got. We've been working for a couple years now, and what they've come up with is unbelievable.

[Rachel Cruz]

Is unbelievable. So we have a new app. John Deloney has a new app out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's called the Together app, and it's in the Apple Store. Android folks take 30% off. We're making, we're gonna make one for you. We're working on it, but it's, it's, it's cool. But right now it's in the App Store. It is incredible. It's micro habits for your marriage. It will text you or not text you, but it will walk with you on daily habits. And you get, it will learn you, and you get to decide what, what avenue you want to take, where you want to focus on whether you got small kids, whether you got. You're dealing with mental load, whether you got a partner who's just completely unplugged, like all of it. And it is incredible.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's so good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And here's my favorite part. Besides that, it's awesome. My favorite part is we walked into this thing knowing that everybody's struggling financially. And so instead of saying, we want to do all of this stuff and it's going to cost $100 million we started with it cannot be more than six bucks a month for both of you. And so this app works if you are the only one working on your marriage. It works with just one player mode, but you can bring your spouse along for, for no extra charge. And so it's a cup of coffee a month to, to literally transform your marriage.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not in big fireworks shows, but in. In. In daily micro habit change. And the feedback has been astounding.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. You guys have had people.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We've been thousands and thousands of people.

[Rachel Cruz]

We've been testing the amount of tweaking and doing. I mean, all of it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's incredible.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's amazing. Yeah. And what's so funny is it is an app. So you're on your phone, but it gets you off your phone.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Purpose is to get off your phone and actually not think about. Go do this thing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Action based for your.

[Dr. John Deloney]

For your spouse, for your marriage, for you. And it's transformational. It's called the Together app. You can search the Together app in the app store, and it's a cup of coffee a month, and you can. You can bring your spouse with you for the same. The same price.

[Rachel Cruz]

And let me just say this too, John. Like, it. It is for couples that are struggling, but it's also for those that are like, hey, we just want. We need a reminder. How do we. How do we just, like, level up? How do we just become more intentional? Right. So even if you're not, like, in this, like, oh, gosh, we're in a terrible place. You get it. Because what it does is it reminds you, it keeps things top of mind for you, and it actually gives you creative ideas.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And I'm glad you brought that up. The most common thing I hear from couples is we've become co managers of our house.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. We are passing each other in the night with soccer schedules and budgets, and both of us are working too much. And this is a tool to help y' all laser in and refocus on why y' all even liked each other in the first place.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it gets you out of your head and into action, and it gets you off your phone, which is. Which is my favorite part of it.

[Rachel Cruz]

So great. So, yep. Go to the Apple Store and download it to get. Today, it's the Together app. All right, let's go to Travis in San Antonio. Hi, Travis. Welcome to the show.

[Caller or Guest]

Hi.

How you guys doing?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

So, oh, man. Where to begin? See if I can summarize this quickly. Basically, we had an emergency. We were renting from my grandpa. My baby got lead in her blood, so we had to vacate quickly. She's okay. We caught it in time, thank God. But we're living with the in laws and have been for about six months now. And, you know, I know that throws red flags for people. When I Talk about it, but it hasn't been terrible. But now it's getting to the point where we're really just itching for our own space.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure.

[Caller or Guest]

And we're not really sure what next steps to take. I've been working my way through baby step three, trying to get to a $20,000 emergency fund. That's three to six months expenses for us, roughly. And that's me being extremely hard on myself. I was trying to consider, you know, roughly $1,000 a month for a potential payment on something. Is that stupid?

[Rachel Cruz]

Is it stupid? I mean, I don't think so. Depends on, I mean, how much margin do you guys have? How much do you make a. Make a month?

[Caller or Guest]

I make roughly 3,900amonth. And my wife stays at home. She doesn't work. We have no debts.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

And I'm at about $4,000 in the emergency fund. But we're nearing that, that threshold of desperation where we really just want our own space again.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure. No, I hear you. So in your area, would you guys be able to find something for $1,012,00.

[Caller or Guest]

Maybe? We're, we're looking, we're trying to. We're looking at rent homes, but my boss has also offered. He has offered me a owner finance situation.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that.

[Caller or Guest]

Don'.

See, and that was what I thought.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Too, because then if something happens and you lose your job, you lose your house, you lose it. Just don't do that. Don't go down that. Don't cross those streams like, like the Ghostbusters, dude.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let your boss just remain your boss.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. Okay. I'm glad you guys.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, it's a generous offer. I'm sure he's trying to help you out, but don't tangle things up even further that way because untangling that just becomes a nightmare.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Travis, what do you do for a living?

[Caller or Guest]

I work in doors and hardware. I do, you know, we do like commercial, like for schools and stuff.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And do you have kids?

[Caller or Guest]

I have one daughter. She's. Yeah, she's about a year old.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so for you guys, I mean, if you're looking to move out, we always say that your rent should be no more than 25% of your take home pay or your mortgage. And so for you guys, I mean, that's 1000 to 1200. Right. If you kind of go a little bit above that. So I would want to stay within those. Me within those parameters, which means you're going to have 3,000 left to live on. Have you guys done a monthly budget? Do you know what your. Well, I guess. I mean, you obviously don't have rent or utilities and all of that, but I would kind of do a mock budget and just say, okay, if we were to move somewhere, what do we think everything's going to cost and list out everything you guys spend money on in the month and see if you can get it within that. I mean, it has to be within the 3,000. Ideally, it would be less than that so that you can continue to save and get your emergency fund built up. Because you guys have what, $4,000 in there, you said?

[Caller or Guest]

Roughly, yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

After living with your in laws for six months, how have you only been able to save four grand?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, there were some complications for like, my wife had some medical stuff she had to deal with postpartum.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Great. I'm glad you were able to take care of that stuff. That's good.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, yeah. And then there's been, like, here and there. I've had to buy new work boots and new tools because I just started in this job less than four months ago.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, wow. Do you see a raise coming anytime soon, Travis?

[Caller or Guest]

There's potential for one. This company is fairly new, so we're growing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

And I think I'm just trying to find my groove within. Within the ranks.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Are you 40 hours with them?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm close to 50 hours, but I'm salary. I make roughly about 900 a week.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

And like I said, my wife doesn't work, but I'm also starting to take on side jobs because I'd really like to start my own business.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, that's great. Honestly, you'll probably make, you know, if you get that going, you'll probably make more than what you're doing now, which is awesome.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Rachel, tell me if I'm wrong here. What I hear with you, brother, is like, simply put, y' all have a math problem, okay? And you're. You. You have a value in your home that you want your wife to stay at home, you all want her to stay at home. You want to work with this new company and get them off the ground. And you're working 50 hours a week, but you just. I mean, you're making about as much as if you went to. Became come a manager at a Starbucks.

[Caller or Guest]

Huh?

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so, like, you're. You're not making 50 grand a year, right?

[Caller or Guest]

Right. No, not quite.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so. And so you've got these competing values that y' all are trying to stretch out, but the ma. Y' all can't afford to live out on your own. Which tells me you, you and your wife have to go back and say, okay, which one of these values that we've laid out, if six months, for one year, for two years, we're going to pause on so that we can get ahead for the future. But this is moments when people make desperate situations.

[Rachel Cruz]

Like this is where the baby stays with the in laws and she works.

[Dr. John Deloney]

For three days a week.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, totally. I mean, you find ways to earn this, especially to get you guys to a point that you have your emergency fund. And by that time, hopefully you've gotten a few raises and time has passed and your income's gone up.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Some good side. Hustle jobs.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. But in the meantime, John's right. You guys have an income problem, Travis. So a creative way to fix that is what I would be looking for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well, make a healthy profit and grow. And your team, family, and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking about AI like it's magic and you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it all alone. That's where NetSuite comes in. Over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system. Accounting, inventory, CRM, payroll, the works. And now NetSuite's AI takes it further. Automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time, and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster. You're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And yeah, switching systems is a big move, but NetSuite's suite success process gets you up and running fast. Go to netsuite.comramsey for a free product tour and to schedule time with a NetSuite rep. That's NetSuite.com Ramsey.

[Rachel Cruz]

So there's certain elements of money that I would say each of us as hosts have a thing that we're just like, that is so annoying. Like, whatever it is, right? Dave's is always people that can't find a job. He's always like, I don't know how people don't work for six months. Like, I'd go, I'd go, like, cut yards. Like I would do something, right? Like, he. Like, we all kind of have our thing, my thing, for. For some reason, John, more and more and more, it's sports betting. I find it so annoying.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Like, I hate it. You find it annoying?

[Rachel Cruz]

It is like it is getting under my skin more and more. Why the bros that are in all the app now that I know, I'm like, we're watching football and it's like every commercial is an app for sports betting. The amount of money that's going into it. And the target audience is a bunch of freaking like 20, 30 year old dudes for the most part. They have a chart and I'm just like. And they're all complaining that they can't afford a house. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, y' all are so. Y' all are annoying. It's annoying. I hate.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I hate it.

[Rachel Cruz]

The sports betting world.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so I, I hate it because it's predatory.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, they.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I hate it because of the way the, the playbook is just. It's like an old school after school special. Like the first joint is free, right? And it's like your first bets are free. And it's like, it's such an old school playbook, but it's so predatory.

[Rachel Cruz]

Rope you in.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you keep betting and then they prop bet you. It's like, hey, will his shoe fall off in the fourth quarter? And you can't.

[Rachel Cruz]

Stupid stuff.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It just latches into every nook and cranny.

[Rachel Cruz]

People get in such trouble with it. And that's what's so frustrating.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's why I hate it because it's. It's like I love, I love watching the fights with somebody and they're like, dude, should I put 10 bucks on it? I love that. That's funny. That's like a thing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. That's like old school. Just like, hey, we're sitting around. I bet on a horse for steeple Chase.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The when it becomes goes from fun to, hey, bet we can make a bunch of money to I bet we could get a whole generation hooked on this to the tune of billions and billions of dollars. And then we talk to their spouses who have lost everything or we talk to them and they can't go to school. They can't like get a job. Like, it's so destructive.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now I hate it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so as the super bowl is approaching, an article came out in ESPN. It said that approximately $1.76 billion is expected to be bet on the super bowl this year. It's the highest. It's a 27 increase year over year. So it's getting worse and worse. $1.7 billion in sports betting for the Super Bowl, I'm like, I think we could, like, cure clean water. Like, I feel like we could use this money and, like, help a lot of people.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

You know what I mean?

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm just like, oh. Or help your families, help yourselves. I don't know. So much good could be done. I just. I can't. I can't do it. Yep. And Bill Miller, who's the president of aga, said that no single event brings fans together like the Super Bowl. And this record figure shows just how much Americans enjoy sports betting as a part of the experience.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's like. That's like Bill sitting outside of a methadone clinic and being like, Nothing brings people into a long line. It just shows. It's like, so not true.

[Rachel Cruz]

Not true. The destruction and all of it and all the. I'm like, oh, my gosh, please take your money and fund your Roth IRA. 27 year old, please.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. Take half the money. Buy some great nachos it is. And then put the other bit of that money, pay your credit card off this month. Just say, I'm about to bet on the game. I'm going to pay my credit card.

[Rachel Cruz]

I'm going to do something smart with my money. Oh, sports betting. The bros. It used to be the crypto bros that bothered me. It's now the sports betting bros.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The next segment we'll talk about it is the women that drive me crazy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, we can.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We won't. We for sure won't.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's all the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, for sure. We won't.

[Rachel Cruz]

All the essential oils. You know what I mean? That's what we always do. Everyone has their thing but the sports betting man. Oh, my gosh. Well, bet the Super Bowl. Yep. Coming up. Yeah, we're gonna. You're gonna see it. Don't bet. Don't bet on. If you haven't already. Save your money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Save your money.

[Rachel Cruz]

Money. All right, let's go to Cincinnati. We have Amber on the line. Hi, Amber. Welcome to the show.

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, how are you guys doing?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. We're doing great. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm doing well. I just had a question. I know you guys always talk about, you know, like, whole life insurance policies and how they're not great and Some life insurance.

[Rachel Cruz]

Some life insurance policies.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, yes.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. So we have. We have a term life policy and both of us have, you know, polic, obviously through our employers, too. And, you know, we've done a good job with the term life, making sure we have kids and making sure that they're taken Care of. You know, God forbid something would happen. But the question I have is my husband was, I guess you could say gifted a family member when he was a little kid. Bought him a whole life insurance policy.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Caller or Guest]

And he still has it, I think. I think the value of it is like 40 or $50,000 or something like that. If something would happen and he's never paid anything for. Now what's happening is the annual premium, which feels like it's about $88 or something like that. It just comes out of the interest that's earned. So he's just kind of kept it. I go the route of, well, do we cash it out and then, you know, invest it? You know, or, I mean, heck, even, you know, in our high yield savings account, the money's there. You know what I mean?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yes.

[Caller or Guest]

I guess we're having that constant debate on what is the right thing to do with this. And I think he's going on the cautious side. But I'm like, we have term life. We have life insurance through our, you know.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Caller or Guest]

We don't.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, you're covered. How long is your term life for? What's. What's the policy for?

[Caller or Guest]

It goes all the way up until we both retire.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

At that point, we will be in a good situation that. I mean, our kids will be graduated from college.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

You know what I mean?

[Caller or Guest]

Like, we'll be in a different situation.

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Cash it out today. You were right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Your hunch was right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You can tell your husband that we said you were right.

[Rachel Cruz]

I feel good, Amber.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would cash out for the end of the day.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And you'll just forfeit the death benefit and all of that, and you'll pay some taxes and all of it. But what you get out of it, though, it literally, if you just put that in the market, and we don't know what the market's going to do this year, But, I mean, in the past few years, some. Some years it's been like 20%. Like, it's crazy what the returns have been in there. And like you said, or even sitting in a high yield savings account earning three and a half percent. Like anything is better than this, because what they sit there and do is try to mix your investments and insurance and they try to bundle it all together. And it actually is. Even though y' all aren't necessarily paying for it, I hear that you're paying out of the interest, but it's expensive. It's a horrible investment. You could be making so much more out in the market. And so I would. I would take this. I would take this 40 grand for sure, drop it into, like an index fund or go to Vanguard or, you know, put it in a. I like it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You put it in a high yield savings account. Like the way you were thinking about it is the way I would think about it.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. I'm just thinking that extra cushion. Maybe we have a cushion, but even more cushion.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. And then it would be something you could actually use. They dangle that death benefit out in front of you, and then they take your money and they invest that in the market.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then they make the spread.

[Caller or Guest]

I think his thing is always just God forbid something would happen to him. He wants to make sure that.

[Rachel Cruz]

But he has taken care of. You know what I mean? Long term life insurance.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now, is that $50,000 gonna change your life?

[Caller or Guest]

Life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If he passed away today, would that $50,000 be what makes or breaks you?

[Caller or Guest]

No, I mean, the term is going to pay for the house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There you go.

[Caller or Guest]

You know, pay for everything. I mean, we're. We've got plenty.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Caller or Guest]

We don't owe anything. Besides just a little bit left on our house.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. How. How old are you guys? How old are you, Amber?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm 47.

[Rachel Cruz]

47. Okay. I'm just like, just doing a quick calculation. If you just put it in right now, just in the market, and you just didn't touch it until you were 67, it'd be $435,000. And that's. That's not adding anything. That's just put it move. Like what John said, if you just moved it from one account to the other today and then just left it, you got almost half a million in there. So.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, and typically, I guess this is the debate we keep going on. He goes, well, it is making money.

[Rachel Cruz]

You know what I mean?

[Caller or Guest]

Like, and I'm like, well, like, not a lot.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

He's had.

[Caller or Guest]

Obviously.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. For the stewards.

[Rachel Cruz]

Had it. He's had it since he's a child, you know, it's only $40,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It is making money. It's making money for them, not for y'. All.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because how old is he? Very true. How old is he?

[Caller or Guest]

He.

He's 52.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. And when did they open this? When he was like 2 years old.

[Caller or Guest]

I have no clue.

[Rachel Cruz]

I seriously think about that.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

Let's just say.

[Rachel Cruz]

Let's say he did. Let's say they did. Because a lot of family members will do this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They.

[Rachel Cruz]

A grandparent or someone will.

[Caller or Guest]

A child is more like later in life. You know what I mean, like maybe a teenager or something like that.

Let's just say.

[Rachel Cruz]

Let's just say, yeah, 12 years old, 40 years. It's $40,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Terrible. It's shameful that someone would call that an investment product and look at you and say you're going to be winning.

[Rachel Cruz]

Here in 20 years. You'd have almost half a million, right? It is. It is a ripoff. Whole life insurance, you guys. It's terrible. It is terrible. So get term what you guys have, Amber. It's inexpensive. You get it, you set it 15, 20 years, whatever you need. And then whatever you would have paid for whole life, just invest the difference there. And you're gonna come out spades ahead. So, yeah, Amber, you are right. I'm happy to say it. So there you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Most people just drift through life with their money. No plan, no budget, stuck on autopilot. But winning with money is intentional. That's why I love Fairwinds Credit Union. They've built tools for people who don't want gimmicks or games. Their Smart bundle includes a high yield savings account to help your emergency fund grow. And their spend smart checking account won't nickel and dime you to death with fees like other banks. Plus, it comes with the Ramsey Be weird debit card, which says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front of it. It keeps you connected to your budget. And every time you use it, it's a reminder you control your money, not the other way around. Fairwinds Credit Union is for people who are serious about taking control of their money. So if you're ready to stop drifting and start building wealth on purpose, open your Smart bundle [e-mail] that's fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[Rachel Cruz]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, I'm Rachel Cruz Hosting today with Dr. Johnson DeLoney. So give us a call at 888-255-225. Up next, we have Cameron in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Cameron. Welcome to the show.

[Caller or Guest]

Hi, Rachel. How are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today?

[Caller or Guest]

So I. I am $74,000 in debt.

And I have two jobs. And I used to be 100. I used to be $131,000 in debt two years ago.

And I'm 74.

[Rachel Cruz]

Look at you, girl. That's like 60 grand.

[Caller or Guest]

I know it's been really hard. I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease a year ago.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my gosh.

[Caller or Guest]

And it's been kind of Getting worse over the last couple of months and.

I'm trying to figure out should I keep working?

I've been working my butt off pain on about 22,000, $2500 every month towards the dad. And I'm struggling to work. Like I'm having issues just every day. And I love what I do. Like I love both my jobs. My bosses are amazing.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

And I just want to know should. Everyone's been telling me you should work.

Less, you should work less.

And I just, I don't know what to do.

Honestly.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. What do you do for. What are your two jobs?

[Caller or Guest]

So my first job I'm a claims associate.

And then my second job I'm a retention specialist for a middle sized insurance agency.

[Rachel Cruz]

Ok. Okay. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Which job pays the most?

[Caller or Guest]

My nine to five. My claims role.

[Rachel Cruz]

Your claims. Okay. And then you're. And then how much overtime are you working with the other job?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm not.

I don't get overtime.

I only get salary.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

And then I get 21 an hour.

[Rachel Cruz]

At my second job doing the other one. Okay. Okay. And how, how many hours do you work that extra job?

[Caller or Guest]

So I work an additional. So I work from anywhere between 16 to 22 hours every week with them.

[Rachel Cruz]

On top of the 40. So you're working 60 hours.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Cameron, this is going to sound bananas. Can I tell you, I'm proud of you. Not, not for working yourself to where you have like, like a, like a chronic illness. Not that, but like you've been working really hard, doing whatever it takes and I want to applaud you.

[Caller or Guest]

Thank you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's pretty impressive. It's really, really impressive.

[Rachel Cruz]

Are you single?

[Caller or Guest]

So hard.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know.

[Caller or Guest]

I am engaged.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

And I've been working so hard. He's. I also have been battling bipolar disorder and I've been doing all the work, going to therapy, talking to my psychiatrist, doing all the medications and that's been extremely commotious as well. And the hardest part is that sometimes the Crohn's medicine messes with the bipolar medicine. And I've been, it's just been really hard. And everyone keeps telling me work less, work less, but I'm like, I want to be dead free. And like, you should live.

You should live. And I'm just like, I want, I.

Just don't want to have any of this debt.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, there's a middle ground there. There's a middle ground when people say you should just live. Like often people have in their mind like beach vacation and just ask what that means.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

For you. Just live Means, like, I want the world to hear your story, and I especially want this guy who's won the lottery getting to marry you and your community who gets to interact with you. You're close to, like, pushing your body over a threshold where it says, I quit. And so I want you just to live. Like, I mean that for real. Do you get what I'm saying? Not yolo, but I want you to be healthy and. Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

This is really hard.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know. I would much rather you take six months and just work one of the jobs, even if you have to take a medical leave or whatever, take six months and exhale so that you can come back stronger. I've met with guys who train Olympic athletes, and they say the hardest part about training an Olympic athlete is getting them to rest, getting them let their bodies recover. And your body is systematically saying, hey, we can't. This is a heavy, heavy load. And so I want to applaud you for going all in. And I also want to hear you. I want you to hear me and Rachel say how proud of you we are. And we want you to listen to your body so that you can cross the finish line. Not in a casket, to be. To be frank, but cross the finish line with your arms held high. Right.

[Caller or Guest]

It's just so hard because I just don't. I just.

I know.

I'm.

[Rachel Cruz]

I just.

[Caller or Guest]

I just want to take responsibility and get it done. And I just. I used to blame. Before, I used to just blame everyone else about all my problems, and when I finally figured out that I was the, you know, the problem, I started to. I just wanted to start working on it. So every day.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, you are.

[Caller or Guest]

You are, you are. It just goes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But. But taking some time to make sure your body's healthy, that. That. That is continuing. That's you continuing to take ownership of you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And, Kim, I do want to give you that permission that, you know, people that call in and there's. They have a. You know, even a child who's sick, and their attention has to be on that or themselves. Like, there are moments to pause, baby step two to take care of yourself or someone around you. Okay? So that is what we tell people. Okay. Getting out of debt is very important, but it's not literal life and death. We make it sound like that on the show a lot because we want to be so extreme for people to get it, but it's really. You know what I mean? Taking care of Cameron is really important, and I'm not worried about you being lazy or not doing anything right. It's not, you're not calling us up being like, I work 15 hours a week and it's just too much.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And we're like, no, you want to work 150 hour a week job? Good grief.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right? That's awesome.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean like you're doing great and if you need to just. And I know it's frustrating because you have momentum and what's hard too, Cameron, I can hear it is like mentally you are so strong. You're like, I see this and this is what I want. My mind wants to go here, but my body's not letting me. And it's usually the opposite for people. Their body abled to do whatever. Able bodied, but they don't have the mindset. But you got it, girl. So taking care of your body is not going to ruin this whole thing.

[Caller or Guest]

It's not, it's just I'm so, I'm so scared to just losing that extra income to you. Like just I haven't, I've been doing it for so long and paying some. It's just I'm scared too because my bills feel like they're so high even like I just like so much and I just. When I look at like my budget and I think, okay, so I will only have like a thousand left if I just have my main job and I wouldn't be able to put. And that's all I would have after bills.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure.

[Caller or Guest]

I just think like I want to.

[Rachel Cruz]

What's left? Cameron, of the 74,000, what kind of debt is it?

[Caller or Guest]

So I have about $5,000 of credit cards left. Two personal loans, they're about. One is 2600, the other is 6000. Okay, well it's at 4800. Excuse me. I've been paying double the payment for it. Then I have a car, so I have a Tesla model Y. Okay. So that's 25,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

And then I have two repos that are on my credit that I've been wanting to get settled there. One is 19,000, the other is the other 13 and then that's it. Okay. That's all I have right now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Are you saying.

[Caller or Guest]

I'm sorry, I IRS that of 5,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, okay. Okay. We may move that up to the front just to get that.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Out of the way. Have you, Are you, you said you're paying extra on that personal loan of the 6,000, are you paying extra on everything?

[Caller or Guest]

Everything. So I'm putting. So for my, my loan for the IRS is 131, but I paid 300.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So what I want you to do, Cameron, I want you to list back out all of your debts and I want you to just do it. If you just did the minimum payment on everything and you put everything towards the IRS debt, I want that momentum to be building because you're kind of spreading everything out, which is amazing and you've done a fantastic job. I just want more intensity, focus on each one. And so pay minimum payments on everything and pay the smallest one off first. And you got this. Cameron. We are, we are here. Call us back if you need any more help because we are cheering you on.

[Caller or Guest]

Foreign.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Sometimes it seems like everyone else's love life is this perfect little Hallmark movie. Here's the truth. Married, dating or single and trying to figure it out. Everyone is wrestling with what it means to be in a relationship. I've been married for 23 and a half years. I've got a PhD. My wife has a PhD and we.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

Have all the answers.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And we're still trying to figure out how to keep our marriage on track. Both of us have benefited greatly from time with a good therapist. No matter if you've just met someone or if you've been married forever like I have, therapy can help you find your way in a relationship. Identify what you want, what feels heavy, and how you can take some pressure off yourself and build a strong relationship. To do all of this, I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and your preferences. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions through the platform. Platform. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch anytime at no extra cost. When it comes to love and relationships, everyone is still finding their way. Find yours with my friends at better help. Visit betterhelp.comramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp h lp.comramsey.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right, let's go to Philadelphia and we have Janelle on the line. Hi Janelle.

[Caller or Guest]

Hi Rachel. Hi John. How are you guys?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today?

[Caller or Guest]

So I am currently going through a divorce and my question is what would be the best way to buy my ex, man, child, spouse out of my home?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Shots fired.

[Rachel Cruz]

Just a bird.

[Caller or Guest]

Oh my gosh. You talk about sports betting.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, is that, is he one of.

[Caller or Guest]

Those typical sports betting, marijuana, video games.

[Rachel Cruz]

Stop it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How long have you been married?

[Rachel Cruz]

What a man child.

[Caller or Guest]

We were married for six years when I met him. He was working full time I started going to nursing school and I kind of continued. I went for my bachelor's and then along the course of, I think our third kid, like when our third kid came, I figured it would be easier for me to pick up an extra shift or two as a nurse than have him work. So I regretted, I'm regretting having him become a stay at home dad because that was like the end of it. And every time I asked him to stay, start working again afterwards, there was an excuse. And now we at this point and he kind of hit the jackpot.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let me free you from this. You didn't cause that in him. Okay, don't hold that. That's a man, that's a father of three kids choosing to not get up and co support his family.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I was actually. Well, he's not that you need to know this, but he actually adopted my oldest son. And so I know in the beginning everything seems good and I was getting out of a very abusive relationship who I had a child with and it just kind of ended up, you know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We'Ll walk you through what to do with your money, but I want to set you free from that today.

[Caller or Guest]

Thank you. I really, I needed to hear that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Every husband, every father needs to go get a job.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. Unless I. I kept saying I was married to three people. My him and my in laws. Because anytime there was an argument, his mom would say, what's going on? She would come to the house. It was just like, it was the worst.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And it's you. You're not married to a man child. It's like an actual child.

[Caller or Guest]

I can't even make it up. Yeah. And yeah. And they're paying for his lawyer and we're going to be going through custody battles and he thinks he needs 50, 50 custody, but he doesn't really support them. He works as a part time janitor. As of the week he filed for divorce, he finally went back and got a job for four hours a day.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, all the text messages you've sent him over the years saying please get a job, all that will come out in discovery. So.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I hope so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Just work out on that process here. Let's get, let's get you to the house. Tell us your house situation.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay. So I have to buy him out because I was kind of guilted into putting his name on the house that I paid for. He did not put a dollar towards.

[Rachel Cruz]

But yeah, yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Which marital debt?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep, totally. Well, and I'll give you that freedom too, that we would tell people when they're when you're married. Right. Even if one spouse stays home, you both. Right. So you. That was not. That was not wrong of you. Okay. I hear the frustration because you put.

[Caller or Guest]

And it's frustrating. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

But that was not. In the heat of the wrong move. Yes. Okay. Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

But. But to. He has that. He has 50% of that asset, too.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. So I. We. We just went to the. This divorce hearing, and I. And I owe him about 48,800 and some dollars.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

The house is worth 255 out of as of the last appraisal, and I owe 139 on it, or 138. Okay. So I have. So since this whole thing started, I've been like, stacking up. I've been. I was hustling to, like, pay off a. One of our personal loans because I knew that was going to come up and that would look good for me when this happened. So I paid off a $16,000 personal loan we had as marital debt. I paid my lawyer over $10,000 and set aside about 18,000. So I have cash and I don't know if it's better. Oh, also, I have to pay him alimony. So I have 15 and a half months of alimony, which is probably going to be about $1,000 a month when he moves out, which he hasn't yet. So should I save this cash as like, just. Those are my alimony payments or. So I don't have to worry about that when the time comes?

[Rachel Cruz]

No. How much are you making a month?

[Caller or Guest]

$6,000 plus. So I'm a nurse practitioner. I make. I bring home 6,000amonth. And I do have a side. Dave would call it a hobby where I do like medical aesthetics, Botox and fillers. And that can bring. Bring home, depending on how much I do it, like one to six thousand dollars a month. And I'm just doing it really part time because I have a kid.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, good. Could you. Would you say like, 2000 would probably be average, just for calculation purposes?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. Yeah. It has been since I've started doing it about two years ago.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good for you. Yeah. There's some cash in that. That's great. Good for you, Janelle.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

So how much will the mortgage be that you're. If you keep the house, how much will the mortgage be without the. Without his. 48,000. But just in general, how much is the payment?

[Caller or Guest]

Well, it depends. I mean, right now it's 1360.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

For a month.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then if you add.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, I don't Should I go ahead?

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I was going to say if you add in his, that 48,000, if you buy him out and just tack that onto your mortgage, as long as that payment doesn't get up to 2,000, which I don't think it, I don't think it will, I don't have. I'm not able to do the calculations right here, but calculate it out to say, okay, if I add that 48,000 to the 138, calculate out what that mortgage payment would be. Because I don't want your mortgage payment to be more than 25% of your take home pay. Because at that point, Janelle, you probably can't afford the house. But honestly I think you might be okay. And especially if you kind of commit for a period of time to doing the side hustle stuff that you can. Because if that can bring in six grand a month extra, I'm like, holy.

[Caller or Guest]

That was probably my best month.

[Rachel Cruz]

And it's well even five grand, four grand, I mean, do you know what I mean? The two grand that I just calculated as like a rough. That that's more on the conservative side. But even, you know, how much did.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You say you have in cash right now?

[Caller or Guest]

I have about 18,000 just set aside. But that's the thing. Should I. Is it better to refinance the house or take out Hela? I know you're not going to say hela.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, I wouldn't do that.

[Caller or Guest]

A personal loan for that or normally.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We would say, we would say don't borrow to buy your partner out. But like when it comes to homeownership, 48 grand is a small number.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And if that payment is still low enough, I would be comfortable with that because majority, because I'll be honest, Janelle, I'd say 90% of the calls we get in this situation and the wife, the mom wants to keep the home, she can't afford it, you know, and so I would, most of the time we tell them that they have to end up selling it, but honestly, with the numbers you're giving me, I might. But I want you to recalculate it. If you just go to ramseysolutions.com we have a mortgage calculator. You can kind of plug some of this stuff in. But I get, I don't want your payment more than 25% of your take home pay because you're going to have that. Then you're going to have alimony for 15 months and some stuff is going to start stacking up. And I don't Want this?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm going to have to pay for childcare too, because.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. So I don't want this. Yeah. I don't want this house to be a burden. Right. Like, it's not worth it. It's worth having all the chaos you guys are going through to have peace. And I don't want financial stress on you. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

One of the hardest things we have to tell folks in your situation on a regular basis is I want you to put on the table as hard as this would be. What if I sold this house?

[Caller or Guest]

Right. And that I do in the future plan on doing that. But I just want.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you plan on doing that, I would think twice about doing it now. And.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because. Because listen, what you're trying to do for you and the kids is to minimize the. How different your life is now. And I would go ahead and just metabolize. It's a hundred percent different. The life you had is over.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And if you think from that, it sounds stark. Right. But if you sit, if you think, okay, the life I had is over, what do I want this new one to look like? Would I go buy this house with these memories and share that bed? At this price, probably not.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or would you go rent for a year. It's going to be inconvenient. You're gonna have to call somebody to help you move. It's gonna be a huge pain in the butt. But I'm gonna start.

[Caller or Guest]

And then the rent. The rent is going to be $2400 minimum.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. It'll be expensive. There's no question. Yeah, there's no question.

[Caller or Guest]

That's where I. I thought about that, too.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So I think it's kind of making that call, Janelle, for you, from the, that, from that perspective, from a mental perspective, do you want to be walking back in those. That front door every day? Right. Like, is that. How is that for you? And then do this calculation. So those are the two big questions that, that I want you to kind of discover on your own. And you can, but you're smart. And gosh, I'm. I'm so sorry of what you're going through.

[Dave Ramsey]

You already know the power of generosity. And the best gifts make an impact now and eternally. That's what preborn does. And you can trust them to do it. Well, they don't just offer free ultrasounds. They support pregnancy clinics across the country with ultrasound machines, training grants, and evangelism tools. They're faithful with each dollar so moms in crisis can see the life in their wombs. And hear the truth that brings eternal life. Because here's the thing. When a mom sees her baby on that ultrasound screen, she chooses life 80% of the time. And your gift of just $28 covers the cost of one ultrasound. Or if you're able, you can purchase an ultrasound machine through Prebor. It placed in one of their clinics so women will choose life for years. Your donation brings hope and truth when mothers feel alone and fear is loud. So I'm asking you to give to preborn today, even just $28 to provide one ultrasound. Go to preborn.com Ramsey or call 855-601-2229. Because every baby saved is more than a life preserved. It's a life changed. That's preborn.com Ramsey.

[Rachel Cruz]

If you're working the baby steps and you want the best and fastest way to do it, you need to be using every dollar. So it's more than just a budgeting app because it's a built in the of your entire money picture. So the whole plan is built into this app and you can track your progress, get personalized recommendations. You can get your get coaching, actually for your specific situation. And it's going to help you move the progress of the plan so much faster. So if you want someone walking with you every single day during all of this, just like we would be here on the show, then make sure to download every dollar. It is free. Download it in the App store or Google Play. All right, let's go to New Orleans. And we have Brandy on the line. Hi, Brandy.

[Caller or Guest]

Hi. Hello.

[Rachel Cruz]

Hello. Welcome to the show. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

Hi, I'm calling. I am an avid listener. My husband and I are on board. We are paying off debt and we are super gazelle intense.

[Rachel Cruz]

Good for you guys. Good.

[Caller or Guest]

I have a $96,000 tax debt left over from my late husband.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

And I went to a company in around June and started a fresh start program.

[Rachel Cruz]

What is that?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Tax debt relief.

[Caller or Guest]

Exactly. Exactly. The name of the company is Better tax relief.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, there we go.

[Caller or Guest]

Right. How ironic.

[Rachel Cruz]

Shoot. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have you given them a bunch of money and you've made zero progress?

[Caller or Guest]

No, I haven't made zero progress yet. I've given them half of the money that I needed. It was.

[Rachel Cruz]

They were.

[Caller or Guest]

They were quoted me $15,000 and it was going to. They were going to get me into a hardship program and it was called the Fresh Start program.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much money do you make a year, Brandy?

[Caller or Guest]

I make about 65 and I just recently got married in December. Together we have not combined our checking accounts because of this IRS program debt.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. How much does he make?

[Caller or Guest]

About 75.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. You don't want them to see his income is what you're thinking.

[Caller or Guest]

Exactly. I don't want them to get a hold of his checking account. My name is not on his checking account for that reason. We share our money. We pay the bills together.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sure.

[Caller or Guest]

You know, but my name is not on his account because I don't want the IRS to go after his account.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can you get your money back from this?

[Caller or Guest]

These folks that I don't know.

[Rachel Cruz]

How can we help you, Brandy? What do you. What do you need from us?

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, so I contacted one. One of your people, y' all used to call them ELPs.

[Rachel Cruz]

One of our tax trusted pros. Yep.

[Caller or Guest]

Right. Okay. So I contacted one in Alabama. He was the nearest one. And he was. He's just a cpa and he's like, he says, I've heard of this place. They have good reviews on Google. They have a lot of good reviews. My second question, my second part of my question was recommended another tax attorney that is local to me in. I live in Mississippi, just outside of New Orleans, about 20 minutes outside New Orleans. So he recommended a tax professional, a tax attorney. When I contacted them, they quoted me $5,600 to take care of the situation, to handle it from start to finish.

[Rachel Cruz]

Wow.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay. So I went back to better tax relief and they knocked my fee down and said for the balance of about $5,000, they would finish the case and that they do have tax attorneys on staff.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, but you're still just talking about fees. Have they talked about what settlement they've negotiated on this $96,000 they have?

[Caller or Guest]

Not yet.

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I have all of my trust. I don't know this company. Never even heard of them. I have all of my trust. Trust and tax attorney. I would look at incentives. When you hire an attorney, that attorney works for you.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You are working for this other group right now.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

They're like the middle. You're basically paying the middleman.

[Caller or Guest]

Right?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

And see, my husband's been saying, I've had a bad feeling about this since the beginning because I was, I was pressured and I was like, oh, my God, they're going to come after me $6,000. It's a lot of money.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right, Right. You're scared. You made a decision out of fear. Right. Urgency and. Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I, I don't know the process, but just personally sitting here just as a dumb guy off the street, I'm stunned that after more than What? Seven months of working with a company. You don't have a relief number yet? You don't have a negotiated settlement yet?

[Caller or Guest]

I don't. I don't have any.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That blows my mind.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

And how much? You said you've given them half of the 15.

[Caller or Guest]

Half of the 15.

[Rachel Cruz]

So. And then they said they can do it for five, meaning the additional five. Or they're going to pay you 2,000, doll, so that you have.

[Caller or Guest]

No, I would still have to pay another five to whichever one I choose to go with if I choose to stay with better tax.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Because your original seven grand that you've paid them is just done.

[Caller or Guest]

I don't know. I can see if I can recoup any of that.

That's.

Yeah, I don't know about that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

But I'm looking at $5,000 more to get an answer. But I think that in hearing you two just now just sold me. I'm going to go with the attorney'.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I. I would call this company, and I want a full accounting of what you have done for me for my $7,500 I've given you over the last seven months. I want every phone call logged, I want every message. I want every negotiated settlement you've offered. I want to know what you've done for the last seven months. And if you can't provide that, I want my money back. Because I think what they're doing is just trashing your credit.

[Caller or Guest]

My credit's trashed about that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. And they're. And then. Then you don't have. What I would see is you don't have to do any moral slipperiness with. Well, let's don't do his money. And let's. Let's get somebody who can get in with the irs, get a negotiated settlement. Get a dollar amount, and you'll probably get it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Put on a payment plan.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You can put on a payment plan. We're paid off asap.

[Caller or Guest]

Really hoping for innocent spouse, but this company hasn't said that. And the attorney's office is like, we could go for innocent spouse. I don't see why you wouldn't get it right.

[Rachel Cruz]

See this? Okay. And, Brandi, I mean, honestly, it's like. Like working with an attorney, if you think about it. They've gone to school for this. This is what they do. Day in and day out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They work for you.

[Rachel Cruz]

This. This relief company is like a. Who knows who opened it up. They make so much money. It reminds me. Not of a payday loan by any means, but it's all in that same bucket. These debt relief companies, they're a cash grab. They grab people in desperation, in desperate moments. I mean, honestly, I hate to say. I mean, exactly. You. I'm like, yes, you're freaking out. You're like, my wages are gonna be garnished. The IRS is after me. Help me. And then help debt relief companies right there if they're signed.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you're like, there is no recourse for you. If they call you back next month and say, well, we tried. Nothing doing. They've kept your money.

[Rachel Cruz]

And you know what? Yeah. And that's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I think it's a stupid tax that you just knock it up to. If they don't pay you back the.

[Dr. John Deloney]

7,000, a great attorney is worth every single penny you pay because they. They. It's like they take up a sword and a shield on your behalf, and they say, game on. And that's what. That's. That's what you hire them for.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And even the term they just threw out to you, you. Right, like the innocent spouse. There you go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I can't believe it. Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm trying not to get angry on the phone.

[Caller or Guest]

Innocent spouse. I applied for innocent spouse, but then the IRS shut down, the government shut down and never heard anything.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

But then having an attorney on your side. Right.

[Caller or Guest]

That Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

Goes forward and tries again, and all of it is worth every penny.

[Caller or Guest]

Thank y'. All. Just thank y' all so much. We are doing so good, and y'.

[Rachel Cruz]

All just so proud of you. Brandy, how much of you guys. I know this is the big debt you're looking at. How much have you guys paid? Paid off?

[Caller or Guest]

We had 140,000, and we're down to 72,000 since January of last year. We paid off about 70,000 in a year. We plan to be debt free except for the house by the end of this year. With the exception of the irs. We'll have that settled, hopefully.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. But settlement doesn't mean it goes away. Settlement means they're going to come up with a number.

[Caller or Guest]

Right, right, right, right. Well, I thought that the 15,000 was my settlement, and that was going to be paid off this year, too. I'm learning now that that was just their fee.

Wow.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. They swindled you, right? Yep.

[Caller or Guest]

So that's a $7,000 stipe of tax.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That is like having money back, having sat with widows like that makes me so enraged on your behalf that someone would take somebody in that moment of pain. They just lost their ride or die. And then to find out there was 100 grand they didn't know about. And then to come in and be like, oh, we got you. Give me $15,000. I'll call you back in seven months. That's so enraging to me. Golly.

[Caller or Guest]

Sam.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

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[Rachel Cruz]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Refi defaulted private student loans don't fix themselves, but they can be fixed. Why Refi helped helps you by refinancing defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment that fits your budget. So that you can clean up this mess and move forward with the plan, visit y refi.comramsey that's why R E F y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, today's question comes from Caitlyn in New York. Caitlyn writes, my fiance and I recently moved into a house together. I am not on the mortgage, but I live here and he pays the bills. His dad helped him buy the house and my fiance pays his dad instead of a mortgage lender. On top of that, my fiance uses a credit card that's also paid for by his dad. Ah, geez. His dad is a big fan of yours and a very smart businessman.

[Rachel Cruz]

Sounds like a raving fan.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Love loves us, but this is one thing he does opposite of what you advise. When I bring up getting rid of the credit card or buying a house the right way. He gets defensive and upset. I don't know who, if that's your father in law soon to be or your, your fiance. What should be my first step to fix this problem? I. Rachel, I think this is as simple as you telling your fiance that if we're going to get married, it's going to be our marriage, not I'm not marrying your dad too. Right. Like we have to put some boundaries in place. Right now you're getting a very clear picture of what your future may look like if you go through with this, which is marrying a little boy in a grown up man's body whose dad still pays his bills, his dad still tells him what to do, his dad still the shadow of his father leans over your house. And if this is my sister, if this is my daughter, if this is my friend, I would say I would draw some real firm boundaries.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Yeah. Because if he can't handle it during engagement, he's definitely not going to handle it. Well.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Wait till you have a kid.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So, yeah, wait till you get a job in another state and daddy says you can't move.

[Rachel Cruz]

And even if it was a debit card and his dad's paying, you know, funding his checking account all also. So like, that's the issue, the debt, and then also the fact that debt is being woven through this entire picture. And if you're not okay with that, you guys have two separate values when it comes to money, which is a really big deal. I always, I feel like a shallow person when I'm always like, oh my gosh, money can ruin the relationship. Because it feels like, no, that shouldn't. Love should conquer all. But the truth is when like rubber meets the road and you guys day in and day out are dealing with your life, this is one of the biggest, biggest, the biggest issues in marriage that can cause so much conflict if you're not on the same page. So can it be done? It can, but it's just an exhausting uphill battle. And sometimes it's like you just fight and fight and fight all day long about it. And it's, and it doesn't create peace in the household.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And in this situation, what churns my stomach is if you go to a mortgage lender to get a loan for a home home, there is regulatory bodies that monitor that. There's agreements, there's contracts.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Those things guide your relationship.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

In this situation, your future father in law owns y'.

[Rachel Cruz]

All.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He tells y' all what you're going to do when you're going to do. Because he is your bank, he is your lender, and I'm not having that because there's no regulations to that relationship other than what he feels that day.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Mixing family money, money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And also, can I, I'll just say this on behalf of the dad in this situation. I have a 15 year old. You know what? I'm gonna tell the story. Josephine and I, my daughter, she's 10, we went on, on a date the other day.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And after we got done eating, she said, dad, there's this cool dress shop. She didn't know this. It's the dress shop. It's anthropology back in the old school. Back og anthropology. Like, I used to get my wife gift cards and we had nothing. I would save up and save up and save up and that would be like a Christmas present for her because I think their clothes are rad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or they were back in the day. I don't, I don't pay attention. And we went in there and there was a dress that was obnoxiously expensive. And she, she lit up and she goes, can I try this on? And I was like, you can try that on. And I was 100% going to buy it. I mean, I was like, I'm buying that for sure. I totally buying that. Like, there's no reason financially, she can't wear it. She has a uniform at her school. So buy my daughter that dress.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And of course, it was like 17 sizes too big.

[Rachel Cruz]

I was going to say little joke, but like, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I get, get the sentiment as a parent of wanting to make sure I'm clearing the deck, I'm clearing the path for my kids as much as possible. I don't want them to struggle. I don't want them to have the same heartache I had. I, I never. My dad wouldn't have had the money because he was a policeman. Like, he wouldn't have the money to buy me something even if he wanted to. And I get the impulse to want to do that. We as parents have to understand that that impulse, when taken too far, hurts our kids. It's walking into the weight room, taking all the weight off the bar and then wondering why they're not getting stronger.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. Well, that's what I was gonna ask.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let me do the lift for you.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because I read all this and sometimes I blame the parent as much in the situation as the son.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

So to this dad, you know, I mean, how, how hard is it or how often do you see married Couples. And it is like an entanglement of the son or daughter continues to listen to the parents over the. A spouse. Is that pretty common?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Super, super common. And not usually to this degree, whether your lender and they're financing your life. But even on things as strange as like someone's been married 20 years and we have to go to Thanksgiving and do it this way because my mom said that. Right. And so in a weird way, your mother in law's still running your life. Right. So that happens all over the place. We have probably have mutual friends that like still have been married. They have three kids. Kids. And they still hide the wine when, you know, when mom comes over.

[Rachel Cruz]

Right, right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so there comes a point when you have to say, I'm an adult. If I'm old enough to ask the question, will you marry me? Then I have to it, it is. Dad holds the blame here. But now that this guy said, I want you to marry me, he has to stand up, take responsibility and look at his father and say, thank you for bringing me here. I have to develop the skills and muscle and grit and resilience and responsibility to take it from here. And if his dad throws a temper tantrum, then he's gonna have a hard grown up decision to make. But that's, that's the, that's the call of a new husband.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. And weirdly, if I'm her and he does that, and even if the dad throws the tinsel tantrum.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wait, temper tantrum?

[Rachel Cruz]

Temper tantrum. I can't say that word there. There's something about if the, if the fiance continues to push through though, and continues to choose her, that shows even bigger of who he is. Right. So like it is a little bit of this. Like, like yes, yes, yes and at all.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But when you ask somebody, will you marry me? They go to number one on your list.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Above your parents, above everything. That person anchoring into that person becomes priority.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Okay, we got about two minutes. John, would you say from a relational standpoint, we're talking about like parents, child, relationship, sort of. I mean, adult child, but child. But when it comes to marriage, when we're talking about them as a couple, what do you see on your show and other people, places? Probably like one or two of the biggest issues that continue to like drive a wedge financially in a marriage?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, the biggest one, number one, is people have my money and your money.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So your 40,000. This is my 60,000. Right. Like it's a billion dollars. Right. But they, they, they try to, they're Driving two cars down the highway right next to each other, trying to pretend that they're in the same car and they're. They're not. Right. So that's the first one.

[Caller or Guest]

One.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The second one, without a doubt, is Financial infidelity Secrets. I bought this and didn't tell them. I'm going to buy this. Don't you tell your dad everything from a cup of coffee all the way to the new car, the new guitar, or like, we took a call earlier about the. I'm. I'm trying to day trade with borrowed money and I got myself. So it's secrets, it's lies, it's deception.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yep. Of continuing to hide. And what's so interesting, too, about that dynamic? Because I've heard people say that it's like, oh, just. Yeah, don't. Yeah. Put the. Put the shopping bags away before dad gets home so that he doesn't see it. Because that means dad isn't looking at the bank statement or the credit card statement.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's the other side of it. Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's wild. To me. Whenever people say that, I'm always like, but that's. So unless they have a hidden account. Right. Which is one thing, but the whole shopping. Because, I mean, this is. It's like a joke. I feel like among women is like, okay, if you go to Target, hide the Target bags kind of thing. Which whenever I hear that, I'm always like, yes. But doesn't that show up? And isn't someone looking at the checking account? Right. And if just one person is, I give that a red flag of like, you both need to be involved in seeing what's going on. That's one reason I do love everydollar with all the transactions that come in. Because Winston, I see it because it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Pops up on each other's phone.

[Rachel Cruz]

And sometimes it comes up a weird name. That did this yesterday. I was trying and I screenshot it and I text. I'm like, what is this? They go, that's insurance. And I was like, oh, shoot. Okay.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

There we go.

[Rachel Cruz]

I wasn't sure what that was, but it just keeps you in this rhythm and on the same page. So married couples out there, there are so many things with money that can drive a wedge. And it can be one of the reasons of divorce in America day. One of the top reasons. But it doesn't have to take your marriage. Right. There are things you can do. You can work together, be on the same team, do a budget together, have a plan together, have goals together, and be in one car. Like, what John was saying versus driving in two cars down the street. Be a team. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union stories. I am Rachel Cruz Hosting today with Dr. John DeLoney. You can give us a call at 888-825-5225. We are taking your questions about life and money. All right, let's go to Salt Lake City. And we have Austin on the line. Hi, Austin.

[Caller or Guest]

Hey, Rachel.

Hey, John. How's it going?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey.

So I got married just this last summer and just enjoying married life. And we've combined our lives, combined our finances, but I'm kind of having a hard time. I feel like my wife isn't super involved with the finances. I feel like it's kind of all on me, which is fine. I feel like we're in a good, healthy, responsible spot. I'm just wondering if I should strive harder to get her more involved. How could I do that? And then I also kind of have a fear that if something were to ever happen to me, she would be in a good spot but not really know what to do with as far as finances go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I'll answer this question backwards. I have sat with multiple wives who have said the words, I don't know what to do.

[Caller or Guest]

Uhhuh.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't know where the money is. I don't know where the accounts are. I don't know who holds any of our anything. And so your fear on that, I, I've experienced that secondhand sitting with somebody. So your fear is 100% right. But I would say that's not the chief reason why I would want your wife involved. Involved. But I want to ask you a question first. Is that cool?

[Caller or Guest]

Sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is she not involved? Because all you do is throw spreadsheets around and talk about this and like, you're kind of annoying to be around or, and I'm saying that laughingly, by the way. Or does she just, like, not care? Not care?

[Caller or Guest]

Laughingly. Probably the first one, but also the second one. Okay, I feel like I am that way, but also I feel like she just doesn't care.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, and sometimes people don't care because they really, really just. I just don't care. Like my mom didn't do it, my grandma didn't do it, so I guess I'm not gonna do it. And then sometimes people just take their stuff and they go home because they realize my voice doesn't count here at this table. I don't get a vote. I don't Know how you're using all these Excel formulas and Claude and Anthropic. So I'm just gonna. Whatever, right. And so I think for you, as a new husband, establishing in your relationship, like telling her. Her, I'm sorry I set this up this way. Your voice matters here. I want you at the table here. And we're going to co. Make decisions. And one of you is going to, like, in my. In my marriage, my wife pushes the buttons. I don't send the bills to the electric company or whatever, but we talk about it, right? So one of y' all is going to do the. The nuts and bolts of it. But y' all being together is critical, man.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. So the. The opposites attract thing is real. Austin, she probably will never be someone that's like, so excited to see her Excel sheets. Like, that's just not going to probably be her. And I can say that. Cause that's me. That's not me. Winston is that he loves all the details and does all this, like, projecting out on things, and I'm like, that's great, but I'm not, like, super excited about it. But we sit down every month. And now, I mean, it's been 17 years. So now it's like, you know, quick 17, 16. I'm jumping ahead. But yeah, 16 years. But I mean, it's quick conversations. But we do a budget. We have every dollar transactions come in. I usually track them. Like, we are still on the same page. But to John's point, you know, I. He's the one that presses the buttons in our life of like, yeah, here I'm gonna pay these bills and everything, but I'm still involved. And so I think that's the balance is you have to understand opposites attract. And what she brings to the table, Austin's gonna be really good for you. Like, you may need to loosen up a little bit too, right? So she's a gift to you in that. But then what she needs to understand is that she's an adult. She's a grown woman. She's married, which means you have to do adult things even though you don't like it, even though it's not your strength. And it's not to you. You have to do adult things. And adult things is learning how to manage a household financially. And again, she may not be pumped about it, but that is part of growing up. And so for you guys to sit down together and look at the numbers and do a budget together, have her change two or three things on the budget, like whether it's amounts. Or she needs to add a category. Like, you do need her involved, and then you guys can kind of start working out of that. So that's what I would say. You probably need to, like, chill a little bit with her and not be so detailed. But then also on her end, she has to pull her weight to say, yeah, I may not want to do this, but I need to because I'm an adult and we have to do things we don't always like. Does that make sense?

[Caller or Guest]

Okay. Yeah, that's helpful.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. How old are you guys?

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, she probably wouldn't like me saying this. I'm 31 and she's in her early 30s.

[Rachel Cruz]

She wouldn't like you. I thought you were gonna say she's like 18 and you're.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I thought you were gonna say she's 51.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, she wouldn't like you saying your age.

[Caller or Guest]

A little bit older than me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. There's something magic, especially in a new relationship with somebody saying, you know what? I have screwed this up out of the gate and I'm sorry. I really want your voice at the table here. And I can be really annoying with my spreadsheets. I'm going to commit to not doing that or. And vice versa. Hey, I've been really annoying with just being like, whatever. I'm never going to be in a spreadsheets, but I want to be a part of the money conversation, like wherever you fall on that, of saying, I have set this dynamic up in a bad way and I want to be a part of changing it. So good move on your part, brother.

[Rachel Cruz]

Awesome, Austin.

[Caller or Guest]

Thanks.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right, let's go to Debbie in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Debbie. Welcome to the show.

[Caller or Guest]

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruz]

Absolutely. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

When my husband retired from his first job, he received a pension, and we took the pension and purchased a 10 year deferred annuity. We realized how bad this decision was later, and we're wondering now if we should take the 10% surrender charge hit and just remove our principal and invest it with our other retirement money. Hopefully making that back.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes. I mean, that's usually it. How much is in there.

[Caller or Guest]

Right now?

There's 366,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, my gosh. Yes. Because it would clear your debt, right?

[Caller or Guest]

We don't have any.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, even better.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

We just spend a little bit on our mortgage.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. When? Okay. When did he. When did he get this?

[Caller or Guest]

We purchased it in 2023.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So it's fairly new.

[Caller or Guest]

88,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. And we realized you can, with no surrender charge, take 10% a year. But that's just a slow.

[Rachel Cruz]

Well, I was going to say that. Yeah. And it probably hasn't earned it a lot because you may have to pay on the gains of it, too. But I don't think there's not going to be a lot because it's so new.

[Caller or Guest]

The interest it supposedly earns versus the fees they're charging us. The fees are more than the entry.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes, I. That's the thing about annuities that are so tough is the fees are so high and the person that's selling them. It's a pretty good. Gets a pretty good deal. Yeah, Debbie, I would. You're gonna have to freaking plug your nose when you do it, though, because that's gonna. It's gonna. It's gonna hurt. But in the long run, putting that in an investment somewhere, even an index fund or something. Oh, my gosh, that's gonna grow.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

How.

[Rachel Cruz]

How old are you guys?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm 60, 59.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Okay. So you guys are at that. At that point because we have.

[Caller or Guest]

We have other retirement investment. We are about 1.2 million without this.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. Is it a fix or variable next year?

[Caller or Guest]

This is flexible premium.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

I don't know if that answers your question. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you have a smartvestor pro?

[Caller or Guest]

No, but we do have a financial. Financial advisor that we've been working with.

[Rachel Cruz]

Not the one that sold you. This is it.

[Caller or Guest]

No. Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah, I would talk to them and run the numbers because you guys are at retirement age and seeing, you know, what the. Because what you would pay in penalties versus if you just slowly took this out over time because you're at that age, I. I would run the numbers, but, man, more than likely just for your kids sake, for.

[Dr. John Deloney]

From a.

[Rachel Cruz]

From a legacy perspective, if you were to leave your kids something, I think I'd rather it be in an account that's. That's earning more interest than what you guys are doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way they can take the stress off your shoulders once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait. Ramsey trusted pros can book up fast. Go to ramseysolutions.com taxpro to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com taxpro.

[Rachel Cruz]

If you have kicked debt to the curve and curb. Curve. Curb. I've always said curb.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What do you think it is?

[Rachel Cruz]

Kick to the curb. Kick to the curve.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's not the curve, okay?

[Rachel Cruz]

That's what my. That's what my sheet says. So as I was reading it, I was like, I don't know if that's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Kick to the curve. That's what it says.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, it's like Ron Burgundy and reading my sheets.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good gosh.

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, my gosh.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, listen. If you are debt free and you have a fully funded emergency fund, do you know where you need to be? Not this March, but March of 2027.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not in the curve, because you've kicked it. You kicked that curve on the live.

[Rachel Cruz]

Like no one else. Cruz. That's right, people. We are back. We did this last year, and it was so fun. It was a boat full of people that are doing the Ramsey plan and who are debt free and doing all the things we are. And we loved it. It was such a great time. Time. So it's Dave Ramsey, all the Ramsey personalities. We're all going to be there on March 14th through the 21st, 2027. We're going the Bahamas, Jamaica, Grand Cayman, Cozy Mill. And cabins are limited, so save up to 300 off when you book by February 7th. It's coming up, you guys. So again, cabins are limited, so make sure to purchase one if you go to ramseysolutions.com V Bents. And I think it's. I saw the numbers two days ago. I think it's right at 50% sold.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So half the boat, all those people kicking their debt to the Curve.

[Rachel Cruz]

The Curve.

[Caller or Guest]

I was like, I don't know.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's right. All right, let's go to Salt Lake City. And we have Grace, who is on the line. Hi, Grace.

[Caller or Guest]

Hi, guys.

How are you guys today?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

[Caller or Guest]

So I'm going to try to make this, like, not long.

It's really hard with the situation. But basically, me and my partner.

Partner.

We're both still technically married. He has two kids. Mom is gone. We're raising the two kids with us, too.

We decided to combine our finances last.

Summer, and we're in $91,000 of debt accumulated.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

And our monthly income is, like 5,700 after taxes. And we just don't know what to do. And we have other expenses, too. Last week, we found out I was pregnant. Pregnant. And then we did.

[Rachel Cruz]

You're Grace. I'M so sorry. Did you say you're married to him?

[Caller or Guest]

We are both married to different people.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

So we live together and we've combined our finances.

[Rachel Cruz]

Are you guys both in the middle of divorces?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes. The mind finished in February, so mine's done. Almost.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

We haven't even started because of the custody and all that.

You know, I would, I would.

[Dr. John Deloney]

If you were my sister, if you were my daughter, if you were my close friend, I would tell you, do not combine your finances to that mess until it is cleared. Okay, Please, please, please don't. Because it can get.

[Caller or Guest]

So when like our, like our rent, all these things are already accumulated.

[Rachel Cruz]

Just venmo each other if you need to. Yeah, but don't, don't. Don't put your names on each other other's stuff. Don't be combining accounts. Don't be doing any of that.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, I see. Yeah, I don't think we've really done that. We have separate accounts and everything like.

That, but we like.

I'll pay his bills, he'll pay my bills.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like y' all are college roommates right now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Because here's the deal, Grace. He hasn't even gone through a divorce. When they go through and do all the mediation and they do, you know, they, they, they take all the assets and all of it. If you're paying on his, on his debt, like you're, you're, you know, in that situation, I don't know, it gets all, it gets all muddled so quickly.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. I guess the problem is, is that we both don't have any assets besides our cars with car payments. We don't own houses. They. There's no money in the banks for either of us. It's like we are living week to week. Like we live off his paycheck one week. We live off my paycheck one week. That's how we're living our life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, he's on the phone, so I just want to talk to you. Is that cool?

[Caller or Guest]

He's not on the phone.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, I'm saying like I. Right now I want you to focus on what you can control. Okay?

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How much money do you make?

[Caller or Guest]

I make. So what makes it complicated too is I'm on commission based salary.

So I make.

My baseline is about 2500 dollars month and then more like 24 because I get paid like 1200 bi weekly.

And then sometimes I take in $700.

In a bonus in a month and then sometimes it's three grand, sometimes it's four grand. Sometimes it's 2500. Or if I don't make goal, I don't. Like last month, I didn't get a bonus at all.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So that feels like you are very economically insecure cure, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

What.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What was your W2 last year? Or would you report on your taxes last year?

[Caller or Guest]

48,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. So in a situation like this, Grace, what I would do is we call it the. The Hills and Valleys Funds fund, if you will. So I would be so diligent. And again, this gets really complicated because you guys are sharing bills and all of it now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're sharing a human.

[Caller or Guest]

Right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

So as much as you can to go through and draw a line and say, okay, here's what I would owe, right? Whatever the utility is, I owe half. Like, if you can function like roommates financially, I think that's gonna be really important because I want you to get your money in order. So what John was getting at is, hey, Grace, how much do you make? How much do you make? And you have to learn to live on your salary and your commission, right? And so how do we create a budget for you, Grace? Not for him, for you. And so what that means is, yeah, when you have a great month, that means you're probably going to put, you know, 1,000 bucks or so into this other account so that when you have a month, that's just $2,500 and you don't earn a commission, you can pull some money out to pay your part of the bills. So it needs to have a really, really black and white situation financially with him. Okay, That's. That's the cleanest way to do it. And then when. When he gets through all of his divorce stuff and you guys. I mean, I'm assuming you guys get married eventually.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, that's the goal. Like, I guess where it's complicated is.

That, like, this $5,000 retainer is what's holding us up because, like, the way that we. Because I've been listening to you guys on the show, and basically we were, you know, thinking we should combine everything and do everything like that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Not until you're married.

[Caller or Guest]

Married. We want. If we could be mar. We would have already gone to the courthouse.

[Rachel Cruz]

But you're. I hear you, but it's not an emotional. It's a. It's a legal issue, right? So, like, it's not, oh, gosh, we want to be married, so we should combine finances. No, no, you're not legally married. You have no protection. So. So, no, we're not combining Finances and is his. The $5,000 retainer that he needs to figure out.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I, the kids.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, these kids are.

Mom, like it's a whole.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know, but Grace, listen to me. And I know you don't want to hear this. We're just telling you because we do this. We do, we take these calls all the time, every day. The chances of you working extra shifts, paying 4,000 of this $5,000 retainer, you paying the bills while he goes through his divorce, and then suddenly they reconcile, or suddenly he doesn't love you anymore, or suddenly, whatever. And the reason I know that you have a psychology for that is because it's happened to you in your marriage. What you'll find yourself with is a brand new baby and you'll have nothing.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so I, I, I care about the woman on the phone that I'm talking to. I care about him too, but I'm not talking to him. He needs to come up with his money for his divorce. And by the way, you don't have enough money to even be helping with that. You, I, I feel like there's two people who are f. Math students. Students trying to work together to get an A on an exam.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. And so I want you to work on your math skills. And it may be I got to get a different job. It may be I've got to figure out some new things, but I want you to start getting concrete under your feet because your, your life right now is a, is a seesaw. And that's exhausting.

[Caller or Guest]

Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And he can play on the seesaw all day long, but I want you to stand on the sidewalk on firm concrete.

[Rachel Cruz]

And this is going to be hard because this is not only a mathematical for financial issue, it's a relational issue.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Big time.

[Rachel Cruz]

When you, like, like if you do this, I will be surprised. Like, it would be easier to get off the phone and just keep doing what you've been doing. And then you look up in two years and sadly a reality hits. That's not what, not the picture you painted or you do what we say, what we recommend. I mean, honestly. And, and you do this and then he goes through all of his stuff. And my prayer is that, sure, at the end of all of it, you know, you guys are still in with love. Love. You have a baby and then you've had a, you have a strong financial foundation under you. He does as well. You guys get married, you combine it all, and then you, you go from there and you're actually building on something strong. Not Something that is so shaky like it is now. But the the way to do it, the smart way to build is separately. Financially, you need to be separate. You are roommates. Financially, you have to think about it.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

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[Rachel Cruz]

Well, here in Nashville, Tennessee, we do the show live every day from 1 to 4. Here on the glass, we have always a wonderful audience that comes out. And over to the side we have the debt free stage. And whenever we see someone on it, we know what it is. And so we have, we have Matthew and Bri from Nashville, Tennessee. Welcome you guys. Thank you.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

Thank you.

[Caller or Guest]

Happy to be here.

I'm very excited to be here.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my gosh. Okay, so you're obviously on the stage. You guys are debt free.

[Caller or Guest]

That's correct.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much debt did you you pay off?

[Caller or Guest]

110,000.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my gosh. What did that consist of?

[Caller or Guest]

Two car notes, a little bit of student loans and some personal loans.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my gosh. All personal debt. All consumer debt?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, consumer debt. We didn't have any credit card debt, thankfully, but we just decided to get after it and just paid it off.

[Rachel Cruz]

I love it. How long did it take you?

[Caller or Guest]

About 10 months.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh my gosh. What were you guys making during that time?

[Caller or Guest]

Roughly about 115 a year, give or take. I work in healthcare and so it can kind of fluctuate just on the overtime. I'm a CT tech. And so we decided last year to go on an adventure and instead of travel nursing, think of travel ct. And so we rented out our house originally in Las Vegas. That's where I'm from.

And I'm from North Carolina.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

So moved to Las Vegas. Vegas.

Which is where we met.

Yep. They got married, and then we wanted to downsize everything, and then we did tiny house living.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yeah. That was incredible.

[Caller or Guest]

It was pretty gnarly.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my gosh. How long have y' all been married?

[Caller or Guest]

3 and a half years.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

So. But literally last year. It was about a year ago today, we just looked at each other and we're like, we. We make too much money to be this darn broke. As Dave's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

As Dave, yes.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

Yes.

[Caller or Guest]

And we knew that we didn't necessarily want to go into any more debt planning this move or moving or anything. And so we kind of drew out a plan. And both of us had always talked about moving to Nashville. She went to college in East Tennessee.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

And so. And I worked for a healthcare corporation that's pretty big out here. And then I got the job for Vanderbilt. But just we feel really, really blessed and really.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

A lot of prayer was over this. And so we're excited to be here in Tennessee after a lot of years of praying and figuring out, like, where God was calling us to go. So. Amaz.

[Rachel Cruz]

Amazing.

[Caller or Guest]

And so we did sell our house. So that was a big. A big thing that just kind of just helped it.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. I was gonna ask because you guys basically, you basically paid off the amount of debt you make in a year. So I was like, so something must have happened. Yes.

[Caller or Guest]

So we paid off roughly about 20 grand during the time of the whole travel thing because we've been out here since mid July and so is when we made the move out. But we knew that we didn't want to go into any more debt with that move because it was halfway across the country. And so it was really kind of. Really kind of an experience just eating, you know, homemade pizza and just kind of. It's beautiful.

We just went on so many walks and, like the mountains and the nature and just like the stillness and that's really. Yeah. Well, we just soaked in.

[Rachel Cruz]

So amazing, you guys. So whose idea was it? So 10 months ago, who was the one that, like, brought the conversation to the table that you were like?

[Caller or Guest]

So I had. I had actually taken Dave's class, like almost like 15, 16 years ago.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

And so I think it was like at the a 13 week course back then.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, yes. That's right.

[Caller or Guest]

When I was like 19 and I was like, oh, my gosh.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I Have to start investing.

[Caller or Guest]

I have to start doing all this type of stuff. And so I was able to go to college debt free. Just, you know, work. Working multiple jobs. And then we got married kinda. And. Sorry.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, we did get married.

[Caller or Guest]

And then we had our.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, okay.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's like a set yet. That makes sense.

[Caller or Guest]

And so we kind of lived the. I hate to say this, but, like, the Dave Ish. We kind of just fell into that monotony.

[Rachel Cruz]

Totally.

[Caller or Guest]

And then, like I said last year, we really looked at each other and, like, this is ridiculous.

And I didn't really know much about Dave Ramsey or anything. And so he introduced me to it and what the baby steps were and just, like, getting after it. And I love traveling. And so whenever I was looking at different jobs and traveling jobs and saw that his job could travel, I was like, oh, the best of both worlds. And so, yeah, that's kind of how we went with that route.

Yeah. And so. And we knew we wanted to get out here eventually, but we knew that we didn't want to go into any.

[Dr. John Deloney]

More debt for that.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes, totally.

[Rachel Cruz]

So you stopped that. You were like, no more debt. So we gotta save. We gotta be thinking about this move.

[Caller or Guest]

Right, Exactly.

[Rachel Cruz]

In a wise way, while still thinking about all this other debt you have. We want to start paying it off.

[Sponsor or Announcer]

Exactly.

[Caller or Guest]

And so when we, you know, downsized.

Everything we could fit into our Subaru, and then we had a trailer that. We also had some stuff on it.

And we sold that in Colorado, and.

Then that's what we brought with us.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

And then when we got here about seven months ago to Tennessee, then we got some stuff, and we're in our apartment right now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

And so, yeah, we're excited for you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

And so we.

[Rachel Cruz]

What an adventure.

[Caller or Guest]

It's been crazy. It's been so much change. But we're just excited now to, like, settle down, hopefully have kids and. Really? Yeah. Just see what's next.

[Rachel Cruz]

How does it feel being debt free?

[Caller or Guest]

It feels really good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Relief.

[Caller or Guest]

Like, it's just like a. Like a brick has been taken off. Off our chest. Because we knew that, like, it was coming, you know, but it's just such a relief. And we're never going back.

Yeah. No, definitely not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So. So I want to throw this example out. You guys are in Nashville right now?

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, we're on the gulch area.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And y' all went through this wild storm last week.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And my wife and I were talking, like, imagine being in that moment, and we have to get out of here. We need to Go get a hotel or something, and we can't. And y' all are debt free. Y' all go through this first big storm, and what y' all got to do is what y' all wanted to do. Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because you've worked for this all this time. Sold everything.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Did it. But we put ourselves in a position to not if, but when life happened. Happens.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We get to decide what happens next.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

Yeah. It's just, you know, I've heard both of you say, you know, it's a. It's not an emergency. It's just an inconvenience.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Caller or Guest]

And it's. It's kind of.

[Rachel Cruz]

It's like weather or you gotta travel for a family thing. Like, whatever it is, you're like, okay, we can do this. Like, we're good. Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Definitely experienced that since we moved here, because things happen. Car crashes, all these random things, and. Or, like, a hospital bill from, like, way back when, two years ago shows up, and you're like, what? And then you just pay it off, and you're like, what?

[Rachel Cruz]

Whoa.

[Caller or Guest]

Like, that was a really cool feeling. And we just know that it was all through God and him helping us the whole time.

So it was kind of. We took care of. You know, we were obviously chopping away at that tree on baby step two. But then we. With the sell of the house, we just took care of baby step three as well. And so we're just.

[Rachel Cruz]

How much did y' all get for the house when you sold?

[Caller or Guest]

We got over six figures, and so it was a big chunk of change.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, that is. That's great.

[Caller or Guest]

So we were able to put a little bit bit away, and now it's just kind of sitting in an account, and we want to buy a home out here, hopefully, but we're in no rush, so we get to kind of just take a breather and just kind of just.

[Rachel Cruz]

You're patient. Nothing is urgent, and there's some great.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Restaurants in the gulch, and y' all.

[Caller or Guest]

Can just exactly spend a little bit.

[Rachel Cruz]

So what would you say, besides selling a really nice house, what would you say the key of getting out of debt is? What was one of the things that was so high. Helpful?

[Caller or Guest]

Obviously, we've been together for, you know, three, three and a half years, and.

Communication, teamwork, I think, definitely, like, it has to be both of everybody's idea, like, coming together and, like, what that looks like, and so kind of, like, finding that compromise of what that would be. And so for us, it was traveling, but for other people, it could look different. And so finding something that just inspires you to get to that point.

So I love that. And I'm the free spirit, and she's the definitely budget minded now.

I am, but I used to be the free spirit. So we've.

[Rachel Cruz]

We've kind of. I'm kind of like you. I'm such a free spirit, but I'm the one that tracks all the transactions and every dollar.

[Caller or Guest]

And that's what my mom always did. Just in the household and just like now just being married a little bit, it's not been that long, but just seeing, like, parent roles and, like, what they did and, like, how to be a wife and what I'm supposed to be, you know, in charge of. And so I'm just trying to. Yeah, it's great. Gather all that.

[Rachel Cruz]

Great. Well, you guys are awesome. And how you are, you know, personality wise, you lean into that, how you train, which is amazing. And I see that in you guys. You create a great team.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

Which is so fun. And just the diligence and the adventure, which I love. That's a part of your story.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I've never heard somebody say that. But every couple has to pick their sacrifice.

[Rachel Cruz]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And for y', all, it's selling the house. For y', all, it was, we're gonna travel or we're not gonna travel. For me and my wife might be something different, but every couple has to get together and choose their sacrifices. I love that. Awesome.

[Rachel Cruz]

All right, you guys ready? Yeah. Okay, so we have Matthew and Bri from Colorado now live in Nashville, Tennessee. They've paid off $110,000 of debt. That's cars, student loans, and personal loans. In 10 months, making $115,000 of income with the sale of a house. All right, you guys, count it down. Let's hear it.

[Caller or Guest]

Three, two, one.

[Rachel Cruz]

We're debt free. Amazing. Oh, my gosh, the joy. It's how it's done, people. That is how it's done.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Dude, they're smiling and dancing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real, real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

[Rachel Cruz]

Our scripture of the day comes from Jeremiah 29:11. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plan supreme, prosper you and not to harm you. Plans to give you hope and a future. Jim Collins said, it is better to understand who you are than where you are going, for where you are going will almost surely change.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I love that quote.

[Rachel Cruz]

That's good. Do you think we change, though?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruz]

So both both hands, right, Jim, understand who you are more than where you're going, because where you're going is going to change. But also who you are may change, too.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You need to kick that to the curve. I don't know what that attitude. I'm totally kidding.

[Rachel Cruz]

You said we can change, too. I don't know. I like it all. I kind of like. I kind of. These quotes are always great. We've done them for the entire, you know, beginning of the show. There's always a scripture and always a quote. But sometimes these quotes, I like to kind of pick them apart. See what I would say differently. All right. Not that I would correct Jim Collins.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sorry, Jim.

[Rachel Cruz]

No, much wiser than me. I'm going to stick with your quote, Jim. All right, let's go to April in St. Louis. Hi, April.

[Caller or Guest]

Hi, how are you?

[Rachel Cruz]

Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today?

[Caller or Guest]

So I. I'm in a great situation.

I've paid off all my debt and I'm investing.

However, I want to know how you define the line of being generous without.

Becoming the family bail out out.

[Rachel Cruz]

Oh, good question. What's the situation? Why would you be the family bailout? Like, what's the family. What's the family need bailing out of?

[Caller or Guest]

A lot of things, actually. So I have a sister who's on the brink of bankruptcy and she's.

She's got two kids.

I've been helping her with car situations. So I bought her a car, actually, ironically, in April, and it just took itch at the engine, just went on that. So I'm giving her my car and buying myself a new car. And then my. My parents did not plan for their retirement. They're living on Social Security and drowning.

Because they've also taken on more debt.

That they can actually pay. So my dad does doordash, but they. They are drowning and they can't really pay their bills, so they come to me quite often to help out.

[Rachel Cruz]

Gosh. Okay, so your situation, you obviously have done well. What's your net worth.

[Caller or Guest]

Right now? Well, I guess I'm married now, so our net worth is. Is just about 3 million.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay. You guys are debt. I mean, Debt free, everything. Yeah, you guys are doing great.

[Caller or Guest]

Completely debt free.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Caller or Guest]

I, I went through my own, like, journey of realizing how much I was paying to interest. I had credit cards and auto loans and student debt. And I took on second jobs to get myself to a position between 25 and 32 of being debt free and then starting to invest. And then my husband, he had a really great example. So he bought a home when he was 25 and was able to pay that off quickly.

[Rachel Cruz]

You guys were just.

[Caller or Guest]

Situation.

But unfortunately.

[Rachel Cruz]

But you worked for it. You made smart decisions too. So give yourself that credit. Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Thank you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I, I like to think of generosity as a, as a. It's like an approach. Right. It's like a, it's like a spirit of. And so everybody has to decide what that means for themselves. Some people's generosity, they look at it like an roi. I want to, I want to give to something. I want to give to things that I want to see multiply. Some people like to give and just because I want to be a part of what you're doing. Some people want to give because I don't like it. But it's the right thing. I, I have deemed it to be the right thing. Right, Right. But none of that comes from a spirit of guilt and none of it. And here's the other thing. None of it comes from a spirit of, of somebody's going to be worse off because I kept doing this because then my guilt ends up putting somebody in a worse position.

[Caller or Guest]

It's never the guilt of them being in a bad position, but it's the guilt of them not learning from their mistakes. Is. Is the problem that I grapple with.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. The challenge is they're not interested in learning right now.

[Rachel Cruz]

Correct.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. And so I think it's having that kind of conversation. And I, it sounds to me in my head there would be a difference between my parents situation and my sister. Right. But. But again, everybody's different.

[Rachel Cruz]

Like, meaning of just like taking care of like you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Like, I mean, it's, it's cool to say, like they didn't plan so they're on their own. But also, I'm not going to let my parents be homeless. Right, Right. Especially if I'm in a position where I, I can help out. And so, But I, I might sit down and say, hey, if you take on any more debt, debt, I can't contribute to this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or I need you to make.

[Rachel Cruz]

Have you had, have you had hard conversations in general, April, with them?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

I Have. And I've even sat down and like worked budgets with them and, and then they, you know, the next month they just blow that up and they do.

Whatever they want and they buy whatever they want.

So we've gone through several conversations of how can they do better and what can we do to set them on the right path? They went through their own foreclosure and bankruptcy, my gosh, six years ago.

[Rachel Cruz]

I mean, nothing's waking them up. It sounds like.

[Caller or Guest]

No, they've had two bankruptcies actually. So you go through financial literacy training with a bankruptcy. So it really boggles my mind that they're just not learning.

[Rachel Cruz]

How old are they?

[Caller or Guest]

Seven?

[Sponsor or Announcer]

70.

[Caller or Guest]

They're. Yeah, yeah, they're just 70. So.

[Rachel Cruz]

And what would happen if you didn't, I'm just curious, if you did not give them any money, what would, what would happen to them? Would they not be able to pay their mortgage? Like, like logistically what happens?

[Caller or Guest]

I think that they would fall into a position where they couldn't pay their rent and they would eventually, yeah. Have some eviction process.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And then what?

[Caller or Guest]

I don't know. Because physically they also can't.

They're not physically, financially, they're not capable.

Like we're actually looking at my mom going into an assisted living because of how bad things are. And so it's more than just financial, but it's, you know, I love to dedicate my time to help them with their problems and I do dedicate my money, but you know, there's a, there's a give and take.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, well, I, I personally, if I, if somebody comes to me, if a buddy of mine from back in the day comes to me and says, hey, I'm struggling with X, Y and Z, I need some help, I'm much more likely to say I will help with this car repair or I will pay the landlord directly or I, me and two of my siblings will contribute to, you know, the long term care. I'm not going to write you a check and hand you cash.

[Caller or Guest]

Right, right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. So I'm not going to, I'm not going to do this because you are prove have proven over and over you can't handle this stuff. I think you and your husband need to get in a room together and.

[Rachel Cruz]

Just decide what does he say?

[Dr. John Deloney]

What are our boundaries going to be?

[Rachel Cruz]

What's your husband say about it?

[Caller or Guest]

So this is where we break the, all the Ramsey rules. Because we've been together 13, 14 years, married three of those and we never, never completely merged or checking.

[Rachel Cruz]

Okay, so you're does he know you're giving them money?

[Caller or Guest]

He knows.

Yeah, he knows. And.

And it's always a conversation every time I do it because, yeah, it. You know, it's our future.

We do have planning together.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This is a recipe for simmering resentment over time.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruz]

So I think this is the moment, April, honestly, that you guys combine everything and you say, we are a team, which means we're gonna tackle one of the hardest issues probably we're gonna have to in a while. And that's what is being generous with my parents look like. And we're gonna agree together on that with our money. And there's something about that spirit that kind of like. It's almost like you're adding a conflict to a really hard thing. But there's a part of me that's like. It kind of forces it all out there for you guys, and it forces you to face the music together and for you maybe to hear some things you may not want to hear or need to. To hear, vice versa. With him. I don't know. There's something about it that I'm like, you guys need to go all in together. And this is kind of like one of the springboard moments to allow it.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you have to, like, I would just metabolize. Nothing you can say or do is going to change how your parents act. Yeah, that ship has sailed. You have to decide what are you going to contribute out of a spirit of generosity. And I'm gonna do X, Y, or Z. But we're done trying to teach. As for your sister, maybe you say, this is the last time I bail you out. Unless you want to do a budget with me.

[Rachel Cruz]

Thanks for the call, April. Thanks, everyone in the booth. John, thank you, as always. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace. Christ Jesus.

[Caller or Guest]

Sat.