Focus On What You Can Control And Start Crushing Debt

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show

Episode Title: Focus On What You Can Control And Start Crushing Debt
Date: March 16, 2026
Hosts: Ken Coleman & George Campbell (with Dave Ramsey guest segments)
Podcast Network: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show centers on navigating personal finance challenges—especially debt—by focusing on what you can control, making smart money decisions, and prioritizing financial health and relationship well-being. Ken Coleman and George Campbell answer live listener calls, tackle real-world debt dilemmas, offer career and financial advice, and dive deep into how psychological, relational, and behavioral factors contribute to financial stress and success. The advice is practical, compassionate, and straight-talking, emphasizing the importance of boundaries, budgeting, income growth, and clear communication in relationships.

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Key Discussions & Insights

1. Debt & Relationship Dynamics

• Caller: Mary in Dallas, TX (00:38–09:00)

  • Situation: Newly married, husband with $45k debt is unemployed, unmotivated, and relying on her salary and 401k withdrawals. Mary feels overwhelmed and unsupported.
  • Advice:
    • Urgent Conversation: Ken: “If you can't help us, then is there an ‘us’? You know, I mean, it's that serious.” (03:51)
    • Marriage Counseling: Both hosts urge a frank talk, possibly up to separation, and stress the need to seek counseling if he’s willing.
    • Financial Protection: George: “You come first. Don't cover his bills... create your own separate account so he doesn’t start to drain it.” (07:00)
    • Just Cover the Basics: Focus on mortgage, utilities, food, and transport. Don’t pay husband’s debts with your salary.

• Notable Moment: Mary’s honesty about seeing her husband’s lack of motivation and her own emotional distress.

  • Ken: “Have you shared how uncomfortable and how afraid you are?” (03:32)

2. Helping Family vs. Protecting Your Future

• Caller: Kayla in Miami, FL (10:50–20:40)
  • Situation: Father, age 71, retired, not enough to cover a $300k mortgage; Kayla feels guilt about whether to subsidize his costs.
  • Advice:
    • Sell the House: “Have him sell the house... then use the equity to rent or downsize,” George (14:07).
    • False Guilt: Ken empathizes with Kayla’s struggle, but clarifies: “You can honor him without bankrolling him.” (16:40)
    • Boundaries: Support through advice and budgeting, not by draining your own family’s future.

3. Debt Prioritization & “Debt Snowball” Method

• Caller: Bonnie in Manchester, NH (22:12–29:11)
  • Situation: $113k in debt (mostly student loans); confusion on whether to attack highest interest or smallest balance.
  • Advice:
    • Debt Snowball: “List all your debts from smallest to largest... focus on the smallest balance first,” George (27:35).
    • Behavior & Motivation: “A lot of getting out of debt is emotion. It’s behavior. It’s the psychology of it.” (28:47)
    • Homework: Cut expenses, possibly sell items for bigger, faster wins.

4. Retirement Planning as You Near Retirement

• Caller: Gina in Salt Lake City, UT (29:34–33:14)
  • Question: What to do with $2k excess monthly when 6 years from retirement, already fully funding 401ks, with mortgage balance of $91k.
  • Advice:
    • “Dial up to 15% investing in tax-advantaged accounts, then throw anything extra at the mortgage.” (30:58)
    • The hosts emphasize the peace and freedom of entering retirement debt-free.

5. Should You Finance Recreational Purchases?

• Caller: Dylan in Phoenix, AZ (38:30–43:04)
  • Question: Young, high earner wants $20–25k “Can-Am” off-road vehicle; wonders if he should finance or pay cash.
  • Advice:
    • “If you can’t stomach paying $20k out of pocket, it’s probably not the right time to purchase the side by side... Buy used, pay cash.” (41:07, 42:19)

6. How to Handle Household Disagreements on Fun vs. Financial Goals

• Caller: Christina in Salt Lake City, UT (45:00–52:50)
  • Situation: Working two side jobs to fund a $12k family cruise; tension with husband over whether supplemental income should go to vacation or extra mortgage payments/charity.
  • Advice:
    • “If you are working solely to save for the cruise, let it be for the cruise.” – George (48:50)
    • Family Meeting: Ken recommends a family conversation to ensure everyone is aligned on the goal.

7. Emergency Fund Sizing with Variable Income

• Caller: Chris in Omaha, NE (54:27–56:38)
  • Question: How much should a family of four with high, commission-based income save for emergencies?
  • Advice: Lean toward 6 months of expenses due to variable income and family size.

8. Living “Hand to Mouth” with a High Income

• Caller: Richard in Los Angeles, CA (71:32–75:05)
  • Situation: $9k net monthly, but $5k goes to mortgage and rest to bills, leaving him feeling financially stuck.
  • Advice:
    • “Downsize, take that equity you have...get out of debt, get the emergency fund, and get to a better spot before purchasing your next one.” – George (74:36)
    • Sometimes the solution is radical, not incremental.

9. Retirement Savings and the Power of Starting Early

• Segment: George explains the power of compound growth with real examples using the Ramsey investment calculator (75:36–81:23).
  • Example: Investing $150/month from age 24 can result in over $1 million by age 62.
  • Notable Quote: “You don’t need to invest a million dollars to have a million dollars.” – George (77:30)
  • Key Point: Start early!

10. Handling Parental Pressure & Adult Children’s Boundaries

• Caller: Josh in Baton Rouge, LA (106:13–115:18)
  • Situation: Dad (62) wants to cash out single-company stock and pay off mobile home & debts. Son unsure how to challenge Dad.
  • Advice:
    • Ask gentle “questions, not suggestions.”
    • “If you can scare him into it or excite him into something, that’s a better route,” George (111:23).

11. Generosity, Tithing, and Financial Faith

• Caller: Zachary in Springfield, MI (117:26–126:28)
  • Situation: Struggling with how much to give above current 1.5% charitable giving when Bible says 10% tithe.
  • Advice:
    • “It’s a matter of the heart.” Ken, (120:01)
    • “You try it for a month...when you’re spiritually challenged, you will actually mature and you will find that you lack for nothing.” – George (124:15)
    • Bible verses recommended: Proverbs 3:9–10, Malachi 3:9–10, Matthew 6:26

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mary’s husband situation:
  “If you can't help us, then is there an us? ... There’s just no urgency. And it puts you in a very tough position.”
  – Ken Coleman (03:51)

• On guilt and helping family:
  “You can honor him without bankrolling him.”
  – George Campbell (16:40)

• Debt strategy clarity:
  “A lot of getting out of debt is emotion. It’s behavior. It’s the psychology of it.”
  – George Campbell (28:47)

• On tithing and trust:
  “If I give 10%, I won’t have enough to pay off the mortgage. I think what you’ll find is that when you are obedient...you never lack.”
  – George Campbell (121:54)

• On financial partnership in marriage:
  “Marriage isn’t about keeping up. ... You have been absolutely put in a jar, my friend.”
  – Ken Coleman (83:07)

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Important Segments (Timestamps)

• Introduction & First Call (Mary): 00:13–09:00
• Kayla’s Retired Father Debt Dilemma: 10:50–20:40
• Bonnie’s Debt Snowball Confusion: 22:12–29:11
• Gina Nearing Retirement: 29:34–33:14
• Insurance Segment with Dave: 09:00–10:50, 33:14–37:55
• Dylan Wants to Finance a Can-Am: 38:30–43:04
• Christina’s Cruise Debate: 45:00–52:50
• Emergency Fund Sizing: 54:27–56:38
• Housing Struggles with Richard: 71:32–75:05
• Power of Early Investing: 75:36–81:23
• Son Advising Dad on Stock Cash-Out: 106:13–115:18
• Generosity/Tithing Discussion: 117:26–126:28

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Tone & Language

The hosts maintain a tone that’s supportive but candid, mixing humor, warmth, and real talk. They never shame callers but often highlight tough love, urging listeners to protect themselves, think long-term, and have the hard conversations—whether it’s with a spouse, parent, or one’s self. Financial truth is dispensed with empathy and clarity, with a relentless focus on practical next steps and what callers can control.

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Summary Takeaways

• Boundaries are essential—with spouses, parents, children.
• The “debt snowball” works because of psychology, not just math.
• You cannot save a loved one from their own poor financial behavior at the expense of your own security.
• Start investing as early as possible—even small amounts add up.
• Major marital money issues require joint communication, not shortcuts or separate accounts.
• Generosity and tithing is ultimately a matter of the heart and spiritual trust, but should not be used as an excuse to ignore biblical principles if one feels called.
• Protect yourself first in emergencies—cover your “four walls” before anything else.
• On big purchases: if you can’t afford to pay cash, you can’t afford it.
• Career transitions and negotiations should be backed by data, prepared ranges, and confidence—but always humility.
• Seeking third-party or professional help (counseling, advisors, budgeting tools) is wise, not weak.

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This episode is a masterclass in practical, actionable financial triage—delivered with equal parts compassion and tough love. If you’re feeling financially stuck, emotionally wrung out by someone else’s behavior, or simply looking for inspiration to take control, this installment will help you reset your mindset and start building real momentum.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Ken Coleman]

Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. Exc. Have you with us. We get it started off right now with Mary in Dallas, Texas. Mary, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, thank you for having me. So I've been stuck in kind of like a situation where I really. I'm newly married and I don't believe in dates. And I really love what you guys preach. I'm trying to get my husband on board. He has. When we got married, he has like over 35, 40k in dates, and that's okay. So I was trying to encourage him to get out of date, use my salary to pay his date. But he currently lost his job in last year and he has no motivation in trying to find a new job. So I'm always trying to like my money. All I do is just pay bills, mortgage, and by the time I'm done paying, there is nothing left. So it just feels like I'm never getting ahead.

[George Campbell]

Wow. So sorry, Mary. I mean, I can think of one way to stay motivated. Maybe providing for your new wife. Is that not on his radar?

[Caller]

Providing for his new wife?

[George Campbell]

You. You said you just got married to this guy. He doesn't have a job, you're struggling to pay bills, and you say he has no motivation to work.

[Caller]

Yeah, he lost his job. So his excuse is like, oh, I can't.

[George Campbell]

Did he get fired? What happened? Is he. Is he in a depressive state because of this?

[Caller]

Yeah, he got fired and he's. He's kind of like, really. He's kind of really confident that I'll get a new job and he'll only apply, like one job in a month. And it's been six months now, and really, like, no motivation at all. If he gets out of his 401k to pay some of the bills, like to pay some of his date.

[George Campbell]

He took a withdrawal from his 401k to pay bills and cover his debt payments.

[Caller]

Yes, because my salary can pay all his date.

[George Campbell]

Oh, my goodness.

[Caller]

My salary can only cover mortgage and the house bills, not his date.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the challenge is there's really no answer. We can't give you a step one, step two, step three on this. It really can't. This has to be a Very, very serious marriage conversation. Have you confronted him about this? To say, hey, I don't think this is sustainable. We can't keep doing my. My salary is not enough to take care of all of this. We're falling behind. I feel like you're not applying for enough jobs. What's his response?

[Caller]

I haven't. His family has encouraged him to like, to even just take any stupid job, like, to just pay bills, but his pride will not let him to take anything. He's just like, until I get something that is comfortable for me.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but I mean. Okay, okay, I appreciate that. And you've identified that it is pride. I assume that he's calling it pride as well.

[Caller]

No, he doesn't know it. Like, he. He still does. He still thinks he's always. I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

Have you shared how uncomfortable and how afraid you are?

[Caller]

Yeah, and he sees me cry when it comes to bills. When it comes to.

[Ken Coleman]

What does he do?

[Caller]

I'm sorry.

[Ken Coleman]

What does he do when he sees you cry? He just says, I'm sorry.

[Caller]

I'm sorry. And that's it.

[George Campbell]

Well, yikes.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you know, again, I. There's nothing that we can say here. I mean, this is a. You have to tell him that. If you can't help us, then is there an us? You know, I mean, it's that serious. This guy is just kind of waving at every day, kind of going, well, I'll just do this and hope it works out. And there's just no urgency. And it puts you in a very tough position. And I don't have some magical answer. George, I don't know what your thoughts are here. This is very, very frustrating for you.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, well, I do think you need to make it more clear how serious this is. And it sounds like he's disassociating, is what we call it, when he's just going, well, I'm just going to sort of numb out because I don't have the willpower to do anything about it. Is that what's happening here? Because you got married to this guy because you wanted the companionship? Because life is better doing it with someone else, Right?

[Caller]

Yeah, I even. I see. I see some jobs and send them his way. Like, everybody's trying to give him leads about jobs, but it's just the motivation for him.

[George Campbell]

What was he doing for work and what was he making?

[Caller]

He was making 130. He was an engineer.

[George Campbell]

Engineer making 130. And he's been applying for engineering jobs or he applied for one.

[Caller]

He's applied for Engineering jobs.

[George Campbell]

And why did he get fired?

[Caller]

They said he threatened his boss.

[George Campbell]

He threatened his boss. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So how long have you been married to this guy?

[Caller]

Two years.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I mean, I think you have to get his attention and go, we gotta talk about our marriage. I've already brought up all the money stuff to you, and you're not doing anything about it. And you're not in a good place. You were in a bad place. You're in a bad place if you threaten your boss. Can we agree you're in a bad place?

[Caller]

Yeah. He still doesn't agree that he thinks it was unfair that he was let go.

[George Campbell]

Well, there's a lack of ownership all over the place with this guy. Is that the case throughout your marriage?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

It's never his fault. It's always someone else's fault.

[Ken Coleman]

You got to take care of you. Right now, I think this is a legit conversation about separation to get his. To get his attention. But at this point, if he's willing to go to marriage counseling, you're going to have to figure out how to afford that because you guys are broke. But I would give it. I would give that a try and get a therapist in the room with you, too. You got to try that. But I wouldn't keep letting this guy just put all the pressure on you and show no desire at all to help out. So at this point, how can you make more money and you be in control of the finances so this guy can't wreck you anymore?

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I wouldn't be concerned about his debt right now. It's about covering the four walls and protecting yourself. So the first thing you cover is going to be your mortgage. You guys own a home or you rent?

[Caller]

Yeah, we own a home.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so we're going to cover the mortgage. We're going to put food on the table, we're going to keep the utilities on, cover all of those bills, and cover your transportation needs. Outside of that, if you can't pay for it, you can't pay for it. If you can't make the minimum debt payment, so be it. I'd rather have the credit card companies mad than your house being taken away from you. Okay, so you come first. Don't cover his bills. We're not covering anything for his lifestyle. In fact, you may want. If this isn't going well and counseling is not an option for him, you may want to create your own separate account so that he doesn't start to drain it.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

In his depressive state.

[Caller]

We've never joined accounts okay, so it's separate.

[George Campbell]

Your money goes to your account and you're paying all the bills from that one account?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Do you have a full picture of his finances? Do you actually know how much debt he has?

[Caller]

It's around 45k.

[George Campbell]

And what kind of debt is that?

[Caller]

Mortgage, school loans. He has a personal loan and his car.

[Ken Coleman]

And none of that is in your name.

[Caller]

None of it. None of it is in my name.

[George Campbell]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, there's the good news. So that's the best news of this entire call, is that he can't drag you down. You can take care of the mortgage. I think you need to be thinking about how do I make more income, how do I create, you know, an emergency fund, how do I create more margin so that his destructive behavior and what he's doing, by the way, is destructive. He's not doing much, but it's destructive. And so you got to take care of yourself right now. And we're hoping, we're hoping we can get you guys in some therapy, that you guys figure this thing out. But you got to protect yourself right now, unfortunately. We're so very sorry to hear that you're going through this,

[George Campbell]

Dave. We got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family. And if the worst happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan, whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

[George Campbell]

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so has my family.

[George Campbell]

So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Dave Ramsey]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Kayla in Miami, Florida. Kayla, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, how are you? So right now I'm at a crosspoint. My father just told us that he doesn't have enough money for retirement. He's been retired for several years. He's been retired for about eight years, and basically he's been living off, like, an annuity that he thought would have covered his mortgage. He still has a mortgage, about $300,000 left on it. And right now my family and I are deciding how we're going to approach this. Do we bail him out, essentially pay off his mortgage, or, you know, do we have him sell his house, move to a cheaper area, cost of living area? So keep in mind, you know, that $300,000 is what my family and I would use for our retirement once we're at that age. So.

[George Campbell]

Why?

[Caller]

What do you mean?

[George Campbell]

The $300,000 is what you would use for retirement?

[Caller]

No, like investing that for our future retirement.

[George Campbell]

You know, like as an inheritance.

[Caller]

No, no, no. Like, so we have. My father owes, like, $300,000 on his mortgage. We were thinking that, like, that's a debt. We can essentially, like, he. Exactly. Help out dad and basically give him like, 20 grand every year to pay off his mortgage because I don't have 300,000 laying around. And so that was our thought, but at the same time, that's money that we otherwise would be using to investing.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, you guys are going to be in the same spot. Your kids are going to be funding your mortgage. It'll be a wonderful generational gift.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So this is definitely a bad plan to bail dad out after he did some real poor planning. Now, I'm not saying we need to be cruel. We don't want him on the street. But I also don't want you artificially propping up his life for the next 20 years.

[Caller]

Yes. How old is he is 71. And on top of that, his mother, my grandmother, lives with him and she had no retirement at all and doesn't qualify for, like, anything because she immigrated to the country like, a couple years ago. So it's kind of Like a series of bad decisions. I'm fortunate. My husband and I do extremely well. And it wouldn't be my children's burden, that will be for sure, because they're pretty much already taken care of for their life, for their major events in their life. But I just find, like, I'm having a moral dilemma with, you know, that's money. I otherwise would have lost my children. So I don't know what to do.

[Ken Coleman]

Have him sell the house.

[George Campbell]

What's it worth?

[Caller]

The house is worth like 700. So that was my thought, to sell the house. But then he kind of says, well, then I'm going to go move somewhere really far away. And then. And then I kind of struggle with like, well, then you're leaving your grandkids.

[George Campbell]

You know, why does he have to move super far away?

[Caller]

I feel like South Florida is pretty expensive because even if you go, like, downsize into like a condo or a townhouse, like, those HOA fees are still pretty high. So you'd have to move like a lot further.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so what would a rental cost that's reasonable, that's somewhat in the vicinity,

[Caller]

probably like 2,000 for like a one bedroom, like, no frills.

[George Campbell]

Okay. More or less. So that's 24 grand a year. And if he has 400 grand in equity and he invests that money, it could spit off 20, 30, 40, 50 grand a year. So that would essentially cover his rent.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

I'm trying to figure out a way for him to be independent and not relying on you guys forever because. How old is your grandma?

[Caller]

She's 93. They seem to live very long.

[George Campbell]

The genetics are good, the financial decisions are bad.

[Ken Coleman]

Remind me, how old is your dad?

[Caller]

My dad is 71.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. George is giving you great advice on the money stuff. He can weigh in further. I'm just listening to this, and I'm listening to a very good daughter, but I'm also listening to a very good daughter who has worked up in her mind this burden that you have to carry. And once we solve the one burden, then you immediately gave us another burden. So he said, well, then sell the house. That was one of your options. It's great. Gets him in better shape and he can go somewhere else, pay cash. And your immediate thing was, well, he's going to have to move, move too far away. And that's too far away from my kids. And I feel like we're creating problems that aren't really problems. Feels like you've got too much of this kind of stuck because it's not A moral. You kept mentioned the moral. There's nothing immoral about the situation at all. So I'm just trying to. Maybe I'm trying to free you by giving you some feedback here. I'm for you. You're a great, great lady. Great daughter. Phenomenal. Your heart's in the right place. I think your head's in the wrong place.

[Caller]

Yeah, exactly. Then I feel bad about, you know, to my own family, my own husband who works very hard. I work very hard, you know.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's where your head should be.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Your responsibility is to your own immediate family first.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I. That's your household. I agree with you on that. You should be making good decisions for you and your kids. Dad's not your responsibility.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I. He's not putting it on me, but at the same time, I feel like he sacrificed so much to put us through college to then get us to the point, like, where we're making so, well, money. Only because of him, not on my husband, just like, for me and my other siblings. So, like, I think that's where that dilemma comes in.

[Ken Coleman]

Like, this is false guilt.

[George Campbell]

You can honor him without bankrolling him.

[Ken Coleman]

Give him some good advice.

[George Campbell]

He could downsize and buy something for 400 grand in cash further out. True. It's not going to be as nice, not going to be as fancy.

[Ken Coleman]

Which would solve the problem you're trying to help solve, correct?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes.

[George Campbell]

And what is his foreseeable income for the next 20 years? How much is this annuity spitting off and for how long?

[Caller]

Well, the annuity ends in, like, a year. So he was supposed to use that annuity to pay off the mortgage, and he never did. Instead, he. He, like, just enjoyed. I think it was just like, lifestyle creep. Like, he was just enjoying his retirement and not in, like, an extravagant way, because that's not how he is, but, like.

[George Campbell]

But he was irresponsible once again with this annuity. And then what's going to happen if you guys are now funding his lifestyle and he gets comfortable, no Social Security

[Caller]

coming in, he does that. That's what he would rely on. And that's, like, going to be like. That's about like 3,700amonth.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so that's our number. How do we live off of 3,700amonth?

[Ken Coleman]

And if you've got no house payment, he can do that. And by the way, I want to remind you what you just told us when this guilt starts to creep in. Oh, my dad sacrificed for us. Yeah, he did. Not taking any of that away from him, but he also did not use that annuity how he was supposed to. You just said it. So you got to have. You can't have both of those thoughts in your head at the same time. So you got to choose the one that is the most accurate. And the most accurate is he squandered his money putting himself in this situation, not. My dad sacrificed so much for us, and we aren't taking care of him. That's a false narrative, and that shouldn't be in your head anymore. When it pops up, you need to immediately replace it with, my dad is a grown man, and he was not responsible with his money. And gosh, I feel so sorry for him that he has to sell his house so that he can stabilize in his final season of life. But that's what he's got to do. And that's what I'm going to recommend to dad, and then I'm going to wash my hands of it. That. That may sound heartless, but it's not. That's what protects you from overthinking on all this stuff and emotionally getting sucked into something that you're not supposed to be involved in.

[Caller]

Now, just like, out of. If you had the money to pay it off, would you pay it off and then look at it as, like, a way, like, whenever he passes, you'll sell the house and almost like it's an alternative investment.

[George Campbell]

I would not try to justify this as anything other than I am. I'm gifting my dad something that he simply cannot pay because I love him, and it's a small part of our financial world, and it's not going to set us back. And it sounds like you're not at that point right now.

[Caller]

What? I'm sorry, at what point?

[George Campbell]

You don't have $300,000 sitting around. Right? That's what you said earlier.

[Caller]

Not like a hundred. I mean, they're in assets, but not.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, we're not going to sell off our retirement to cover Dad's mortgage. So if I'm in your shoes, what I'm going to do is love him in the way of saying, hey, dad, you're going to need to downsize. We can't afford this. You can't afford this. We're going to help you create a budget for this 3700 to make sure that it covers all of your bills and you can enjoy some life, but it's going to look different. This is your boundaries versus. Hey, dad, he's 93, and now it's. He wants 2,800 bucks a month from each of the siblings to cover his lifestyle. I would not go down that path. There may come a day where he has to move in with you and you take care of him just like he's doing with your grandma. But I wouldn't make that day today.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys. I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest. Early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told team, just fix it. And they did. We got netsuite. That was years ago and we've never looked back. See, netsuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business. For real time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags, inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data, stop wasting time, and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour [e-mail] Ramsey. That's netsuite.com Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Manchester, New Hampshire, where Bonnie joins us. Bonnie, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for answering my call. It's my birthday, so this is the best.

[Ken Coleman]

Happy birthday, Bonnie. How old are you today?

[Caller]

Thank you, thank you. I'm 30.

[Ken Coleman]

30? Oh, that's a big one. Do you feel like an adult now?

[Caller]

Yes, I officially feel old.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no, not old. My gosh. Careful, careful. You're gonna offend people that are seasoned like I am. But congratulations. Oh, okay, Gotcha. Well, now you are. You are entering a decade where at some point, you will just wake up one morning feeling like you had a great night's sleep. And as you begin to move, you feel as though someone was punching you the entire night. And I can't explain that, but that's the reality.

[George Campbell]

Science can't explain.

[Caller]

So I already. I totally understand that already.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, we're there for you. Okay, how can we help you today?

[Caller]

All right, so I am an occupational therapist and my husband is an engineer. And right now we're in about $113,000 debt. And 96,000 of that is student loans. And I have about 13,000 in personal loans. And that comes from a truck that we had paid off and sold. And then we redid our basement because our house flooded a lot, so. But my question today is how do I pay off my top student loan when the interest is compounding? Almost every week I log into my account and my, my loan has been about $79,000 for years now. And I'm at my wits end just trying to pay that one off because it's the largest. And I do want you to know that I am doing the debt snowball with all of my other debt besides that 79,000.

[George Campbell]

But how does that work?

[Caller]

I get so discouraged.

[George Campbell]

How do you do both at once? You're either attacking the smallest one or you're attacking the one with the most interest.

[Caller]

So I have them listed out in order from from smallest to greatest. And I'm. I'm definitely throwing most of my extra money at the smallest one, but I am throwing more at the highest school loan as well. So my minimum payment was $314 just to cover the interest for the highest loan. And I decided to throw a couple hundred more dollars towards that one just so I could get ahead. And it's just still growing. So I don't know. I just don't know how to go

[George Campbell]

about what's the interest rate.

[Caller]

So I know this sounds crazy, but the $79,000 is made up of about 19 small school loans. It's a federal loan, so they're all between 4 to 6%.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So none of that is crushing. I know it feels like a lot and there's a big balance there, but it's actually great that they're split up because that means you're going to see progress faster than if you were attacking this as one giant loan.

[Caller]

Mm.

[George Campbell]

So what is the smallest balance?

[Caller]

So it's really confusing because it's not.

[George Campbell]

Just go down to the bottom of the list and tell me the smallest balance.

[Caller]

So when I pull up that on my computer, it doesn't have it listed smallest to greatest sort by overall. This is such a confusing.

[George Campbell]

You should be using every dollar, Bonnie. I'll give you every dollar. It'll sort it for you. I think the spreadsheet is where this went out of whack.

[Caller]

I actually have it and I stick to it every month, but I'm just trying to organize it in my brain to make it sound less confusing.

[George Campbell]

So my method, the human brain, is the worst place to organize anything. It's a junk drawer up there.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, could you two move forward, please?

[George Campbell]

I'm trying to get to the bottom of this. What is the smallest balance?

[Ken Coleman]

Speak philosophically at this point, since we can't figure it out.

[George Campbell]

If a third grader looked at your spreadsheet, they would find the smallest number to be What?

[Caller]

It's about 800.

[George Campbell]

Boom.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, there we go.

[George Campbell]

What are you guys bringing in per month?

[Caller]

9,500.

[George Campbell]

Great. Why is this loan not paid off yesterday?

[Dave Ramsey]

So.

[Caller]

Because that's. That's only a snapshot of all of my debt. Like, it's only a little portion. So my. I'm just going to read off what my spreadsheet says here so it'll be less confusing. So my Medical debt is 33. My basement, I owe 5,000. My next school loan is 6,000. My husband's truck that we sold, and we were negative underwater with that, and we owe 7,000 on that. My next school loan is 11,000. And then the big one that I'm specifically talking about right now is 79,000.

[George Campbell]

But that 79,000 you said is split up.

[Caller]

It is.

[George Campbell]

So it's not really 79,000. It's $800, $2,000, $3,000, so on and so forth.

[Caller]

Right, right.

[George Campbell]

So that's how we're actually looking at this. Don't look at it as a $79,000 loan. Split everything up. 19 of those in the spreadsheet looking at the smallest balance. That's where your focus goes. So out of the 9,500, how much extra do you have each month to throw at the smallest debt if you stop this avalanche? Deal.

[Caller]

Probably two grand.

Boom.

[George Campbell]

Do you see what just happened there? You actually cleared a debt.

[Caller]

So I guess that's why I called in, because I've been so confused. So total, I have, like, 25 loans instead of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

[George Campbell]

Yes, 25 loans. And we're just gonna work our way down the list. That's it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And if you guys. You're living off of 7,500, that includes your minimum payments, Right? Minimum payments. Plus all of Your expenses are 7,500, and you have 2,000 left to thr on top of that smallest debt. So now the game is how do we get more of that margin? How can we make more? How do we spend less? Are you guys doing any investing whatsoever right now?

[Caller]

No, we put that on pause.

[George Campbell]

No match whatsoever?

[Caller]

No, I'm trying to look for another Job at night when my kids are asleep, that I could do from home, which was something else I was going to do and. What?

[George Campbell]

No, that's awesome. I love that you have that level of intensity about this. Do you guys have anything in savings? You have a thousand dollars at least?

[Caller]

We do. Yep.

[George Campbell]

Anything above that?

[Caller]

One thousand?

[George Campbell]

Just a thousand?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

Okay, great. So you're. You're so close to doing this plan full on. We just need to switch our. Our brain around this debt avalanche thing. I think that's what's screwing you up.

[Caller]

Okay?

[George Campbell]

It's causing you to stall out because you're trying to do three things at once. Just try it my way for one month, Bonnie, and see if you feel better. Because a lot of getting out of debt is emotion. It's behavior. It's the psychology of it. It's not the spreadsheet that's the enemy here. It's the person in the mirror. And we can solve that with this amazing income. They're bringing in ten grand a month. I'm going. I think there's some expenses we can cut out of that 7,500.

[Ken Coleman]

And that's your homework assignment, Bonnie. Where else can we cut? Can we sell some stuff? You know, between cutting and selling, can we make another $5,000 dent? It's a good question. Maybe you can't. Maybe it's only 2,000. But that's the mindset. Where there's a will, there's a way that still works. Let's go to Gina in Salt Lake City. G, we help.

[Caller]

Hi. Hi. Hi, George. Hi, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

Hi.

[George Campbell]

How are you?

[Ken Coleman]

How can we help?

[Caller]

I have a question that kind of centers around how to prioritize my husband and I's finances as we near retirement.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, hit us with the question.

[Caller]

So we are about six years out from retirement, and right now we're both doing 401k with our employer. We have a mortgage, and I think that we have enough in our three to six months.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I'm just wondering, the excess that we have. Each month we bring in roughly 6,000. Take home, and our expenses are roughly 4,000.

[George Campbell]

Great. That's after investing.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Great. So you got 2K left over and you're wondering what to do with it.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Because what's your. What's left on the mortgage? What's the balance? What's left on the mortgage balance?

[Caller]

It's 91,000.

[George Campbell]

Love it. Okay. Are you investing 15% of your household income?

[Caller]

So I have a 401k that I'm putting 11% in and then my employer matches 4.

[George Campbell]

Okay, you should be investing 15% and then your employer matches on top of that. So the match is gravy on top. And baby step four. So this is what I would do in your shoes. Make sure that you guys are dialed up to 15% of your gross household income going into these tax advantaged retirement accounts. Anything on top of that, I would be throwing at that mortgage. Let's get this thing knocked out before you enter retirement. Then we can really start maxing out things as we head to the finish line. I think you guys are going to be in great shape if you do it that way. Hey, guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say I don't know where my money goes, it's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem. They're not budgeting. Then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal. Winning with money is about doing the boring stuff consistently. And that includes banking someplace that helps you stop guessing with your money, like Fairwinds Credit Union. They're not going to fix your habits. That part's on you. But they do support people who are ready to take control of their money. At Fairwinds, you get a high yield savings account with a great rate to help grow your emergency fund, a checking account that won't nickel and dime you and up to 10 free savings accounts. So you can organize your money on purpose. Because when you stay disciplined, your money gets predictable, manageable and boring in the best way. So if you're ready for a bank that helps you be intentional, open your smart bundle today at Fairwinds.org Ramsey and get the Ramsey bank beware debit card to go along with it. That's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[Ken Coleman]

The Ramsey show question of the day is sponsored by why Refi? If your private student loans are in default, it's a mess. But why Refi can help clean it up. Why Refi helps borrowers refinance with low fixed rate payments and a clear path. Excuse me. A clear plan forward so that you can clean things up and get back to making real Progress. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[George Campbell]

Today's question comes from. Liam in Washington. Says I'd appreciate your perspective on a recent news story. When actor James Van Der Beek passed away, a GoFundMe was created for his family. Reports indicate the goal has increased multiple times and now exceeds $2 million, despite him reportedly owning a multi million dollar home and significant property. Many people are pointing to this as evidence that medical expenses can financially devastate even high earners. If someone with that level of income and assets needed financial help, what hope is there for the average American? What concrete steps should families take to ensure their loved ones are not left relying on public donations? And after a death, Whoo. There's a lot in there. One can. And I did see this floating around the Internet. I've not studied it, but I did see that there was this gofundme. And it's always interesting to me when the number keeps increasing. You know, I try not to be skeptical, but I go, see, you needed 20 grand and now you go, well, actually 50 grand would be nice. Actually a hundred grand would be even better. So I don't know. I'm not here to speculate. I've seen there was speculation. People are wondering what's going on here. And I don't know the state of James Van Der Beek's estate when he passed. If he had a bunch of debt. Lot of rich people out there who can pass away and have a bunch of debt to their name. That's not unheard of.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. We simply don't know. And so instead of focusing on which report on social media is correct, because that'll drive you nuts. I think that the final. The final question in that email is the one we addressed, you know, and you're basically going, how do we prepare for something like this? And in this situation, George, the question is, if the medical debt was in his name and he dies, what happens to the medical debt?

[George Campbell]

It's gone. They're not coming after your family for that.

[Ken Coleman]

So that's. That. That's the fundamental answer.

[Caller]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

But that only feeds into the conspiracy theory even more, which we're not going to take on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Now, in terms of.

[Ken Coleman]

So why would they even need it?

[George Campbell]

Yeah. My guess is this is the best case scenario. They didn't want to have to sell off any assets of the estate in order to cover any debts that were owed. And so they're probably raising these funds to try to cover those separately so that the estate remained untouched.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. And so that goes back to your answer, though. It doesn't just wipe away. If there's money in the estate to cover the medical debt, then creditors can

[George Campbell]

go after the estate.

[Ken Coleman]

They can go after it.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And so therein lies the issue. So, you know, it's a tough situation. There's really no clear cut answer as to what you do in that situation.

[George Campbell]

But I would not be freaked out. If you're the average American, there's a lot of concrete steps you should take to ensure your loved ones are not left relying on public donations. I pray that there's never a Go Fund GoFundMe after I pass. Ken? Yeah, I'm hoping to do a good enough job.

[Ken Coleman]

So what are you going to do? Give them a quick tip.

[George Campbell]

Number one, the thing you need today is term life insurance. If anybody relies on your income 10 to 12 times your annual income and a term level policy 15 to 20 years makes sense for most people. And here's the thing, if you follow the baby steps, you get a 15 year mortgage. Guess what? After 15 or 20 years, you've got a paid for house and you've been investing 15% of your household income for decades. So there's a nest egg and a paid for house. So the goal here is become debt free as soon as possible so that your family has no headaches, there's no debts to pay off and so they can just grieve your loss instead of also dealing with the stress of paying bills. And then the other thing you can do is create an estate plan. For most people, will is the simplest route to go. And Mama Bear legal forms is our partner on this. They're fantastic. You can knock it out online in minutes. And for some people, when they have this level of wealth, a trust makes sense. And I'm sure there was trusts involved with his estate and that can help you sort of control the assets as well.

[Ken Coleman]

That reminds me, our good friends at Zander Insurance, if you're somebody that does not have term life insurance and the advice that George gave, you need to go talk to Xander. You won't believe how affordable, truly inexpensive good term life insurance is. And our friends at Zander has been partnering with us for decades. They'll help you out and that's how you rest well at night to go. All right, If I rack up a bunch of expenses and I've got the right term life plan, I'm going to be in pretty good shape not to leave anybody in the lurch.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, think about that. You've got a will in place so everybody knows what's going to happen if and when it happens and you've got term life in place, should you pass away within that term policy, there's going to be a payout of a million dollars to help cover your family's expenses for the long term as you invest that and then stay debt free. Have an emergency fund, Build a nest egg for the future. Your heirs will inherit the IRA or the 401k, helping them cover any bills that need to be paid. But that's the goal is become debt free, stay debt free. It's one of the best reasons to follow the Ramsey plan because it puts you and your family in a great position for legacy.

[Ken Coleman]

Really good. Let's go to Dylan in Phoenix, Arizona. Dylan, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, what's going on guys? How are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. How are you today?

[Caller]

I'm doing good. So I just had a question for you. I'm 22 years old. I make 10 to 12,000amonth. My monthly bills are about $3,000 and I'm saving for a can am side by side. But they can be 20 to $25,000. So my question is, would you recommend paying cash for something like that or financing it? If I can afford the payment, I only have like $5,000 saved for the K N. What are you going to

[Ken Coleman]

use the side by side for?

[Caller]

I go to the like sand dunes a lot and all my buddies go do off road riding like every weekend so it'd be used a lot.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Are you newer to the show?

[Caller]

What's that?

[George Campbell]

Are you newer to the Ramsey show? You've been listening for a little while.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm pretty new to the show here.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so one of the values on this show is not owing people any money and an even bigger value is not going into debt for depreciating asset. And so the goal here and you can do this very easily at 22, making 10 to 12k a month. That is wild. I'm very happy for you. You're very successful for your age. So here's the deal. If you can't stomach paying $20,000 out of pocket, it's probably not the right time to purchase the side by side because too many people can stomach a $400 payment because they don't want to part with their 20 grand or they don't have it is most Americans. And so to feel the pain of purchase is actually the best thing in today's America because everything is frictionless. Every dealership will make sure the payment is low enough for you to feel good about leaving paying them a ridiculous amount of money with interest. So can I tell you what's smarter? Why don't you find a five grand used side by side off Facebook marketplace?

[Caller]

Yes, that's kind of what I do. Like I got my truck out there. So the only debt I have is my, the home I just purchased.

[Ken Coleman]

Cool.

[Caller]

The only reason I was thinking of financing the side by side would be I could not have the $20,000 out of pocket and invest that and make money while I'm paying off the debt.

[George Campbell]

Are you doing that right now? Is that 20 grand invested?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, it's in a high yield account.

[Ken Coleman]

That's not, that's not invested.

[George Campbell]

So it's making 3%. And you're going to take on this side by side loan for a brand new side by side at 20 grand at what, 6% interest?

[Caller]

Probably. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

This is a bad trade, man.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

There's guaranteed return of you paying, of you staying out of debt. There's a volatile return in the stock market. There's a volatile return even with these high yield savings accounts. And you're paying income tax on the income you make from the savings account.

[Ken Coleman]

How much cash do you have put away?

[Caller]

So I have like 40,000 in savings, but that's not for can am. That's just kind of for rainy day or you know, just a savings account. And then I only have 5,000 saved up for the can am so far.

[Ken Coleman]

Well then here's the deal. I'm online right now and I'm seeing a 2021 Yamaha Wolverine X2R Spec 850. I like just saying that. I don't even know what I just said.

[George Campbell]

The more numbers and letters, the more they can charge.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm, I'm no side by side guy. As will come no surprise to anybody who knows me or knows what I look like. But that's 8, $995. You only got another month of saving up for that. And you pay cash for it. And you're going to beat the snot, you're going to beat the snot out of this thing anyway, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

I guarantee you every single side by side that is financed in America today is underwater. They owe more than the thing is worth. And then they call this show saying, hey man, I did a dumb thing and I was making ten grand a

[Ken Coleman]

month at the time.

[George Campbell]

And so I thought I could afford it, but I lost my job now and this thing's going to get repoed. These are the calls we get, Dylan. And so let some other dingus prepay the depreciation by the way, all and you get a deal.

[Ken Coleman]

And I'll bear, I'll bet you all your buddies have financed these things. And so you just think it's normal and you want. By the way, I could hear the tone in his voice when I said a 2021. He was like, yeah, gross. Like this thing is going to be nasty and full of sand and all kinds of crap. What are we doing here?

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know.

[George Campbell]

Dylan. Buy used. This is too much of your world. You're too young to be making a decision this stupid and you're too successful as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

If debt collectors won't stop calling and you feel like you're drowning, you don't need another company selling debt relief dreams. You need real world help. And that's why I recommend Guardian Litigation Group. Guardian's not a call center. They're actual attorneys who can step into the courtroom and fight back when creditors try to sue you. Now look, debt settlement isn't pretty. I still rather have you get out of debt the old fashioned way. But if you're facing bankruptcy and need a way to stop the bleeding, Guardian gives you a path forward. And they don't charge a dime up front. Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55,000 people across the country settle more than $600 million in debt that they'll help you stop living in fear every time the phone rings and take back control of your Life. Go to guardian lit.com Ramsey that's guardian lit t.com Ramsey Attorney advertising results may

[Ken Coleman]

vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside. We're excited that you're with us. Fabulous studio audience out in the lobby today. George. Yeah. Look at them. They're all waving at us from all. Fantastic.

[George Campbell]

Some people from Venezuela.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. So this is a global show. I gotta call my mom and tell

[George Campbell]

her you made her. I made it international.

[Ken Coleman]

I made it mom. I've done you proud. 888-255-225 we're having fun today. We're gonna help you out. We're having some fun along the way if that's okay with you. Christina's up in Salt Lake City. Christina, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hello. Thanks so much for taking my call. I appreciate that.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure. What's going on?

[Caller]

Yes, hi. So we have four kids and my husband and I went on our first cruise just the two of us. And so grandma watched, the kids, really liked it and we went ahead and wanted to plan another cruise just to

take all of us together.

So I got two part time jobs. So. Because on one single income of his, the cruising money is just not quite there. And we're just trying to figure out the best way to manage what I'm earning and I make about between 10 to 12k a year. And how to go on a cruise with that money. And the reason I'm asking, my husband wants to, he's like, what about 10% towards charity? What about 15% towards retirement of that? What about extra mortgage payments? So he keeps kind of nickeling and dining me, like 10% this, 10% that. But I feel like we don't have much left for the cruising fund. So tell me if that's the right thing, what he's telling me to do, or should I just take 100% and splurge on vacation for the family? That's my question.

[George Campbell]

Well, based on the conversations you guys had, it sounds like he just doesn't want to go on this cruise.

[Caller]

He does, he does. But he wants, like, what about an extra mortgage payment? Because he's 47 and we own.

[George Campbell]

He's a tightwad like me. He's just like, ah, we should be doing other things with that money.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[George Campbell]

Okay, got it. I love it. I'll play husband and Ken will play the role of Christina.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, great.

[Caller]

Perfect.

[Ken Coleman]

But my question before we role play is why is it? Why aren't you guys doing this? With his income, the charity giving, and the other things that you rolled through, why does it have to come out of the 10 to 12,000 that you're making?

[Caller]

Exactly. Exactly. That's what I said. But he's like, well, everything helps. Come on, we only got 184,000 to go in the house. Like, even if you put, you know, like that only worked during the day,

[George Campbell]

and by the time it's paid off, the kids won't even want to go on a cruise with you. That's the sad truth.

[Caller]

Exactly. And the oldest is 15 going to 10th grade.

[George Campbell]

Oh, this is your last shot. You'll be lucky if the 15 year old even wants to go. So here's the deal. You guys are completely debt free outside of the mortgage, Correct. You have an emergency fund?

[Caller]

We're getting there. He was unemployed like a month and a half, so we realized we didn't have enough. But we're really close to be finishing with that.

[George Campbell]

Okay, what's the price of the cruise? For six of you, including everything, Travel, cruise, any other expenses?

[Caller]

So we're thinking between about 12 grand. I mean, between airfare, the cruise fair hotels, you know, I'm saying like, now,

[Ken Coleman]

is this the Ramsay cruise you're talking about?

[Caller]

No, just the Royal Caribbean.

[Ken Coleman]

I was kidding. I knew it wasn't, but I thought I'd get A little plug in there, you know, because you know the cruise you're going on isn't going to have George and I on there. That's true.

[George Campbell]

No pickleball with Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

No pickleball. Yeah. So, okay.

[George Campbell]

But two grand a person, that sounds reasonable. Here's what I would tell you. The budget will dictate the type of cruise you guys can go on. It's that simple. So if you got 12k, you, we're going to make sure that all of our expenses are within that 12k budget. You got 13k? Well, that budget just got up to a little bit. You got 10k. Well, now we're going to have to do some budget shopping, see if there's a different crews that are still great.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

So the thing you don't want to do is go, well, we only have 10k saved. But the cruise we really want to do is 15. We'll just put five on a credit card.

[Caller]

Card.

[George Campbell]

That's what most people do. So don't be most people a little bit.

[Caller]

Right, Exactly.

[George Campbell]

To your husband's point, as long as you guys are investing 15 of the household income you're giving, we're not going to nickel and dime your, your side hustles here. If you are working solely to save up for the cruise, let it be for the cruise.

[Caller]

Perfect. See, he did not like it. And I'm like, my little contribution is just not going to make a difference. That's what I'm.

[George Campbell]

Well, you're working temporarily for a specific purpose.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

This is not regular income for the household in perpetuity forever. You're only doing this to save up for the cruise, which I love. That intensity that tells me you really want this thing. Cuz you're not robbing Peter to pay Paul. You're going, I will create this cruise money out of thin air because I want this so bad.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And the question is, can he also. Is there room in your income from his income to also help contribute to this cruise savings fund?

[Caller]

I mean, not really being honest. That's why we haven't done that since the kids were little. We just were camping and all that stuff. So.

[George Campbell]

So what kind of tide is, what

[Ken Coleman]

kind of tension is around this conversation? I detect a little bit of tension. Like you're going to get off this call and be like, I called Ken and George and they said it was okay. And I don't know if I like that. Am I, am I right or am I wrong? There's a little tension on this.

[Caller]

It is. Wow. You guys can listen really well. And can tell. He just hands me the paycheck. He doesn't do any bills. I take care of that. So really, he just kind of like, tell me when you have the money, then we can book. That's kind of how it is. We're even looking either. Either in the summer right now, which the prices are high. You're already been talking to the travel agent. Or the next spring. Because this fall we did find one for 6400. But he's like, it's my hunting season. I'm like, what am I going to tell my siblings? I'm like, oh, my goodness.

[George Campbell]

It's what season?

[Caller]

Hunting season. You know, they want to do their hunting. So.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So the siblings will be upset if he misses one hunting trip, apparently. Correct. I mean, a season is more than a week. You're going on a cruise for a week, I imagine.

[Caller]

Yes. Oh, let me tell you this. Sorry. Being the tenth crater and the seventh crater next year. Do not want to miss school. So it has to be that fall, spring or the summer.

[Ken Coleman]

I think we got to have a family meeting is what I think. I think this.

[George Campbell]

Is that what it is.

[Ken Coleman]

I think so.

[George Campbell]

Everybody's got to get on the big old giant calendar and go, all right, spit shake. We're doing this week. Everyone in a agreement.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Because I think we got levels of intensity is what I'm picking up on. I think you really want to go on the cruise with the family more than anybody else. I think husband is probably number two. But him saying, well, what if we do this? I think George picked up on that. I don't think he's 100 bought in on this. And then I think the kids are kind of like, so let's have a family meeting and decide, you know, do we really want to do this? And if the answer is yes, or if you're the mom and you're going to throw some, you know, some influence around as moms and wives can do. Hello, happy wife, happy life. I've been married 28 years. I pretty much do what Stacy wants us to do. It's okay.

[George Campbell]

I mean, can read the room and go, Stacy wants us to do this, guys. We're doing this.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, we're.

[George Campbell]

Have a smile.

[Ken Coleman]

I could see throwing out the. Well, I'm going on a hunting trip. That's just a guy kind of testing the waters. I want to see if there's.

[George Campbell]

Oh, yeah, that's an excuse.

[Ken Coleman]

100% it's an excuse. So let's have a family meeting and decide. Do we all really want to do this and then see where it lies. And then you got to meet with hubs and go, hey, look, I'm working for this sole purpose. You need to look at what I'm doing as vacation money. If we want to give charitably and give over here, then we got to do that in this pile. And if he disagrees, that's fine. But I just. There's enough tension around this that I think it's showing me that we need to have a greater conversation about what we're doing with money, how and when win.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, there's really a. Yeah, there's a gap in the values here. You value experiences with your family. And he's going, hey, there's other financial needs that we need to take care of. Well, let's make a plan for both. I think there's a compromise here. We're gonna have the mortgage paid off this year if we keep at this rate. And we're gonna go on this trip. I'm saving on the side. So plan the schedule, plan the budget, get everyone aligned and then just go. Don't overthink it. Life is short. That 15 year old, the time is ticking. They're going, oh, cruise with my parents.

[Ken Coleman]

Lame.

[George Campbell]

This is your last shot. If you're looking for a more budget friendly way to save on medical costs and stay true to your values, Christian Healthcare Ministries is a great option to think about. CHM is not health insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry. A biblical, community based way for Christians

[Caller]

to share each other's medical bills.

[George Campbell]

That means no enrollment deadlines and you can choose any doctor or hospital you want. That kind of freedom is big, especially if you're self employed between jobs or you just need something that fits your budget better. CHM has been around for decades, faithfully serving the Christian community.

[Caller]

And many members save hundreds of dollars

[George Campbell]

a month compared to traditional health insurance. And that margin gives you breathing room when you're working the baby steps and trying to steward your money well. And right now, CHM is offering new members a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Get [e-mail] budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's chministries.org budget and promo cod Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Chris is up in Omaha, Nebraska. Chris, how can we all.

[Caller]

Hi, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Good, how are you, Chris?

[Caller]

I am doing well. Well, my question for you guys is, I'm curious how much I should have in my emergency fund with a family of four, a high commission job and a wife that's an educator.

[George Campbell]

Love it. Great question. So what is your household income on average?

[Caller]

About $250,000 a year.

[George Campbell]

Whoo. Fantastic income. All right, so the commission is coming through, my friend.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

How long you been doing this job?

[Caller]

Nine years.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And how old are the kids?

[Caller]

27 year olds. 24 year olds.

[George Campbell]

Fantastic. Are they twins?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Two sets of twins. That's amazing. Okay, well, here's the deal. With emergency funds, we say three to six months, and there's a spectrum there for a reason. Some people, three months is plenty. For some people, six months makes more sense. And for a commission job where it is variable, I would definitely be leaning six months especially. Every kid you add is just one more thing that could come up. You're just adding more potential emergencies. So what is six months to run your household of actual expenses?

[Caller]

25 to 30,000.

[George Campbell]

That's six months worth

[Caller]

a total. Yeah. Are you asking per month?

[George Campbell]

Yeah, per. So you're saying per month, you're talking about four to five grand covers all of your bills?

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

Wow, you guys are living frugally for making 250. That's impressive. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you guys off the grid?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

Everyone healthy in the family?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, wonderful. Then I would just lean towards six months. If 25 grand does it. That's great. And here's the truth of the matter. If you did have a bunch of emergencies all in one month, that were 26 grand, 28 grand, you could cash flow it very easily with your income,

[Ken Coleman]

correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, There you go, Chris. Appreciate the call.

[George Campbell]

We helped at least one person today.

[Ken Coleman]

I think so. Nick is joining us in New York City. Nick, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hello.

[Ken Coleman]

Hello, Nick.

[George Campbell]

He seems surprised to be on the air.

[Ken Coleman]

It's Ken and George.

[Caller]

It just went blank all of a sudden.

[Ken Coleman]

That happens to me all the time. Don't worry about it. What's going on?

[Caller]

So I have a two large loans that I was curious. The smartest way to get rid of at least one, I make about6.76 a year, and one is $9,300 at 16% interest, and the other one is going to be at almost 15,000 at 9% interest.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, is that all of your debts total?

[Caller]

That's. That's all my debts.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you got about 24 grand in debt. You're making 76. Are you single?

[Caller]

I'm with a girlfriend, a living girlfriend.

[George Campbell]

Are you covering her bills at the moment? Oh, boy. Well, that's a rabbit trail that I want to go down badly, but I will not I'll just say this. Please do not combine finances or pay off anybody else's debts.

[Ken Coleman]

We don't have to go down the rabbit trail, although I think it might be fun. But the point is, that's the answer to your question. Stop paying for her. And that allows you to pay off debt faster.

[George Campbell]

It sounds like you're stressed out about the interest. My guess is you want to tackle the 16% interest first. Right, Right.

[Caller]

That. That was my thought. I have about $16,800 saved. You have 16,000 actually being 16,000, yeah.

[George Campbell]

Oh, awesome.

[Ken Coleman]

How much are you paying? I'm not leaving the girlfriend alone because it's actually real money. I'm serious. How much are you paying every month for her bills and her stuff?

[Caller]

Well, it's basically. It's bills that we both use. So, you know, phone. We have two lines on the same phone line. Electric and all that stuff. When she had her job before, she's currently looking for a new one. She was paying half the bills. I was paying a majority of the other bills. So, like rent and some other stuff.

[George Campbell]

Oh, boy.

[Caller]

Other than that, it's small. It's not. It's not much. But my goal.

[Ken Coleman]

How much is it? You sound like a politician on a Sunday morning show when you ask a direct question.

[George Campbell]

Is it 500 bucks a month? I get that. They're split a little less. Okay.

[Caller]

So currently, because it's winter, we're coming out of winter now. It was about anywhere between 200 to 300 electric. Okay, 825 in rent, and then maybe $200 with the phone and Internet.

[George Campbell]

I'll tell you, Nick, I wouldn't be job hunting super hard if I had bank of Nick at hand to cover the bills. Anyways.

[Ken Coleman]

Fact.

[George Campbell]

Just saying. But to the question at hand, we teach the debt snowball method because we have found that that's what actually causes people to get out of debt. So the debt snowball method says focus on the smallest balance first, regardless of the interest rate. Now it's your lucky day because your smallest balance has the highest interest rate. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So the main question is, why haven't you used part of that 16 grand you have saved to just knock out this debt?

[Caller]

That's what I was planning on doing, but I figured, you know what? Let me call one of you guys and see what my options are, because this is the first I've ever been able to hold savings. My whole life has been one step forward, five steps back.

[George Campbell]

Do you think that's partially due to the debt that you've been taking on. Wouldn't it be easier to save up money if you've had no payments?

[Caller]

Oh, absolutely.

[George Campbell]

Well, there you go. One more reason to knock out the debt. What's the payment on that $9,300 debt?

[Caller]

9,300 is 430amonth.

[George Campbell]

Boom. So now what happens? You clear that debt and you still have what, almost seven grand left over?

[Caller]

Yeah, about. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So let's take six of that. Unfortunately, apply to the next one.

[Caller]

I have car trouble, so I'm three. Three of that's actually going to my car to six. Luckily, I do my own work, so

[George Campbell]

we're down to 13 minus the nine.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Right. So that leaves us with a round four. You could take another three of that and tackle your next debt. So that brings you to a total balance of 12k left over. And we have an extra 430 bucks to throw at that.

[Ken Coleman]

That and girlfriend needs to be pulling her weight. That's another nice raise.

[Caller]

She's been bashful. Now she.

[George Campbell]

How much you pay phone lines?

[Caller]

I'm sorry, how much.

[George Campbell]

How much are these phone lines?

[Caller]

We're paying $70 for the Internet, so that's $140, I believe, for the phones.

[George Campbell]

Oh, your phones are included with the Internet? Is that what's happening? Happening?

[Caller]

It's a cheaper plan for the phones because we have the Internet bundled in, but the Internet itself is $70.

[George Campbell]

Okay. I was going to tell you to switch your phone. I think you're overpaying for your phone plan is what I was getting at. You could save some money there. So I think there's some savings to be had in your expenses if you want to switch. We have a great partner with Boost Mobile. You can jump onto boost mobile.com Ramsey. 25 bucks a month. So if you're paying 50 now, well, you just freed up times two. You save 50 bucks a month just like that. So there's a lot of things you can do in your budget. My guess is you haven't been paying super close attention to what's actually going on with your money. And if you did, you'd go, oh, I can shave here. I can shave here. You'd find another 500 bucks on top of this 430 you're about to free up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So now we got a thousand bucks a month going at this remaining 13k.

[Ken Coleman]

And what do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I do water treatment.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you're pretty handy, guy. I picked up that you do your own work on your own car.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, I'd be looking for.

[Caller]

I'd be saving at least 2k in labor, I believe.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, good for you.

[George Campbell]

So 5k job became a 3k job.

[Ken Coleman]

But my point is, could you do some work on the side, given all that handy skill that you have, just to make more money, to just make this thing go faster, you know? So I'm just, I want you to be thinking, how do I do this? George just walked you through a lot of it. But you could also bring in some more income. I mean, every time we have a debt free scream on the stage, the income goes up, up. Every time we go, okay, they, they tell us how much they paid off and how long and we say, all right, what was your income in that time? And they go, it was this. And then it went up every time. And so know that you can do that as well to fast forward all this.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Do you have a goal in mind of when you're actually going to become debt free? If you follow this plan as soon as possible. Don't love that.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not a date. You sound like a politician again.

[George Campbell]

How about this? You're. You're paying off your debt today. The 9300. We're going to put, put a little bit remaining on that 15K. We're down to 13K. Right? So now it's, I'm going to pay off $13,000 in six months. And put that on the calendar. Mark it. Put it on your bathroom mirror. Come hell or high water, we are getting rid of this debt. And that means no matter what it takes, no matter what sacrifices. And that might mean, hey girlfriend, you're going to need to cover your own bills through some side gigs, cuz I got some debt to pay off. That's a real conversation that should have happened yesterday.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, she just heard it, apparently.

[George Campbell]

Oh boy. Is she on the line too?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, he said that she was listening.

[George Campbell]

She's no friend of mine. No,

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

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[Ken Coleman]

All right. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. Hey, if you've ever wanted to see the person who's calling in asking these questions, what would it be like to be in the same room with them? You got your chance. We're taking the Ramsey show back on tour. We've got four cities coming up. You get to experience the show live, raw in the room, and it's a lot of fun. We did two last fall. They were great. Sold out. These are going to sell out. We're in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix and Anaheim coming up this April. We're doing these in really cool venues, only 300 seats and they're very intimate. So we'd love to see you grab your [e-mail] events. That's ramseysolutions.com events. Brian is up in Syracuse, New York now. Brian, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. Good afternoon.

[George Campbell]

Hey.

[Caller]

So I've been interviewing at some companies and I am anticipating hopefully a couple offers to come in in the next couple weeks here. I have background and experience in the roles I'm interviewing for, but the roles are net new to the businesses that potentially be joining. So my question is what resources can I use to help determine market value so I can most wisely negotiate my total compensation?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, if it were me, I mean, I would be doing research on this. And so you can choose whatever you want to do. Whether that's Claude, Chad, GPT, Grok, I don't care, you know, Google. But you want to dive in and get as many resources as you can that create a, a pretty good narrative that's provable on the range and see where you stand first. So I would be doing that first. Okay. We're based on where I think I'm at from a skill standpoint and experience based on, again, the size of the company, the industry itself. There's a lot you can do and you get a pretty good idea of the range that you think is realistic. So that's where I would start and see where you land on that. And then when you get an offer, any kind of negotiation is based, it needs to be based in reality.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's where I was trying to land. You know, like, I can use GPT and that's fine, but I want reliable, good data. So I can say, hey, here's my experience, here's the conversation we've had. And then based off of this rock solid data, here is where I've come to this number.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, again, when you get that information, ask for the sources. You'd be surprised. You know, you can find that, you can find that, and then you'll have

[George Campbell]

a range and you know what you're looking for. And so when you go in there, be confident, don't be rude, but be firm and say, hey, I'm currently interviewing for positions in this range and usually what you want is your bottom end is really the kind of where you want to be at this stage.

[Ken Coleman]

Though you should have already discussed with them in the interview process. Salary expectations, yes or no?

[Caller]

Yeah, I left it a little open. So I didn't say, you know, I need X. I thought that'd be better positioned. Once they, they want me, they know that I can really get it done, then I have a bit more leverage.

[Ken Coleman]

Great.

[Caller]

I have an idea. But I would say, like, even their range is lower than what I came from, so it's still doable. But again, you know, I want to maximize and I'm looking at more than just that. Dol. You know, I want to look at the total package as a whole.

[George Campbell]

Have you let them know that?

[Caller]

Yeah, okay, I did.

[George Campbell]

So they're aware of, hey, we're kind of low for where this guy's at and what he's currently making. How can we make this compensation package as a whole a little bit more exciting?

[Caller]

Yeah, exactly right. And these interviews as well just came from, you know, networking, like direct conversations. So I didn't want to necessarily blow it before we got there. And the conversations have been really exceptional. So again, I want make sure I have good data, good information.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so now we take the data that you're going to go find and you can prove it, and you got some sources. And again, you're never going to get an exact amount. You're always going to get a range. But if we do our research and we've got some real sourcing, which is easy to do in today's world, trust me, I could find out in about five minutes on any one of those AI agents. Okay. And so we're going to take that research and that just informs us based on where you are right now, you're not going to go take the job for less money. Money. So this, right, the starting point is where you are now. That's the basement, correct?

[Caller]

Yeah.

I mean honestly I would, I'm. I was part of a big layoff, so I would even take a little bit less just to kind of get back up there and work back.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. But know what your basement is, is my point. So when you go into respond to an offer, you got to say, okay, I know what my basement is and that's the worst case scenario. And then how does the research inform where I'm at on my basement? And then you'll be fine, you know. And look, here's the thing. All of this is about posture. If you act like a jerk or act like an entitled punk, which you're not going to, but if any of us act that way in our response to an offer, then, then that's where it could go south on you. But you have to control what you can control. And if your posture is one of the, of humility but confidence. Okay. Based on knowing what you need and knowing where you belong from the research. If we've got a nice mix of humility and confidence to go, gosh, guys, there's a lot about this I like, but realistically, and I don't know what you can do, that's a great negotiation tactic. I don't know if you can do more, but this would be ideal. I mean that's all you can do. And you let the chips fall where they fall.

[George Campbell]

I like that that an open ended. Can you, can you do any better? I'm just curious. And if you leave it like that and the spirit's right, the vibe is right, then it's not offensive, it's not going to hurt your chances of getting the job. It sounds like he's in it. He's at the tail end of this thing.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Let's land the plane, Brian. Let's go.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's go to Richard next in Los Angeles. Richard, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi guys. Hopefully you can be some great assistance and some great recommendations for me. I currently have owned my home for about 4 and a half years. Have about 300k in equity, big mortgage payment. I'm single income in my family. I'm married with three children. I take care of the household. My wife's a stay at home wife, homeschools, the Kids as well. So she's busy, busy, busy. Okay. Basically I'm just living every two weeks I get paid, I net about nine grand a month. My mortgage is about five. I don't have any car payments. My cars are paid for. I have about a $2,000 credit card that I owe some money, I owe money on and I have a $5,000 credit card that I owe money on. My utilities are averaging anywhere from all the utilities include about 700amonth. So, you know, and then I got food bill, so I got to feed the whole family. So it's just, I'm literally just, you know, tired of just hand to mouth. I'm 51 years old, so I need to know, you know, should I sell my home and just move out of the state and buy something within my means? You know, my mortgage rates 3.9, so it's very low, you know, so I hate to lose that because rates are high, but I'm just torn and I'm tired of living this, you know, every two week paid paycheck to paycheck kind of thing. It's just, it's tough. And not to mention, I do have a little bit saved away in my 401k, not a whole lot, but you know, I can't even do the, you know, 7% company match. I'm barely hitting 3%. So, you know, it's just, yeah, you're

[George Campbell]

treading water in every area. You're trying to pay off the debt, but even that's hard. You don't have anything in savings. You're putting a piddle amount and retirement and things are tight. And it's directly tied to that gigantic mortgage payment. I mean that's, that's eating your lunch right now. That's over half your take home pay. And it doesn't seem like any of the variables are changing. Your income is not going to go up drastically in the near Future, is it? Six to 12 months?

[Caller]

No, no. I've been on the job for 13 years, I'm not going anywhere.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And so 9K is where we're staying. And guess what? The mortgage is only going to go up because part of that is your escrow, which is your taxes and insurance. And as we know, insurance has been going up. Taxes are going to continually go up on property taxes, especially in California. And so the issue here is if your income stays about the same and the mortgage goes up, it's only going to get worse. And so your best bet would be to downsize, take that equity you have. It might be Renting for a little while, it might be taking that 300k equity and putting a down payment on a much, you know, cheaper or smaller house. I don't know how that affects your family. Family and where you are, location wise,

[Caller]

it affects them. It's, you know, the average house in California is like I think 540,000 right now, average in the region where we live. So, you know, but I don't, I wouldn't be able to. Those neighborhoods aren't that we live in. I hate to say that, but the neighborhood just wouldn't be something that we would feel comfortable living in.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, well, the reality is you're in a very high cost of living area and it requires a very high income and you have a great income, but you bought too much house too soon. And so you need to make some drastic decisions here. And that probably includes relocating, downsizing, and maybe a rent in a neighborhood you want for now and hang to that 300 grand, get out of debt, get the emergency fund, and get to a better spot before purchasing your next one.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Do you plan on retiring a millionaire?

[George Campbell]

Yes. Was that rhetorical? I'm sorry, no, no.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, a lot of people do, but the vast majority of Americans, George, never hit that mark. Here's a piece of data that I thought was shocking. Only 3% of US adults have $1 million saved for retirement. Is that shocking to you or are you showing the numbers that you're, you're unshocked?

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I mean, 97% have less than a million dollars saved. If you switch the data around, you go, yeah, that tracks. That tracks. And here's the funny part, Ken, in the comments section, as I encourage people to do this, they go, a million dollars is nothing in today's America. I go, are you even investing? No. The answer is no. So here's the thing. We're not saying that you only need a million dollars. For some people, that might be more than enough. For some, it might not be near enough. But I want to show people today, today that you can retire with a million dollar nest egg no matter how old you are.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, cynics, pay attention.

[George Campbell]

So it's not about income, it's about margin. How much you're able to put away a month and how early you start. And here's the other thing we talk about, investing. It's different than saving. You can't save your way to wealth. Saving is just parking money in an account. A high yield savings account maybe gets 3% investing. We're talking about in the stock market. In companies, we're rooting for partial ownership called shares, and we're rooting for to grow in revenue, which increases the share price, which increases our nest egg. That's how compound growth works. Your money making more money, making more money. So I'm going to use the Ramsey investment calculator today to inspire you all to become wealthy. All right? And if you don't become wealthy after watching this, that's your own fault. So you guys can click the link in the description or jump on ramseysolutions.com to use the calculator. So, Ken, let's throw out some scenarios, some ages, and I'll tell you how much you need to invest at that age. Age to become a millionaire by 65.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, good.

[George Campbell]

Or 62 in this case.

[Caller]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Am I throwing these at you?

[George Campbell]

Throw it out.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, here we go. How about age 24?

[George Campbell]

Oh, okay, so we're out of college. We got our first big boy job, probably, right? And 24. And let's say you're going to retire 62. You have the ability to do that because you started early. We're going to invest and we're going to also imagine you got, I don't know, a thousand bucks in there so far. How much will you contribute monthly? $150 a month. We're gonna assume an 11% average annual rate of return. People go, where are you getting 11%? This guy's crazy. I'm literally looking at historical data of the US Stock market over the last several decades, and if you look at the last few years, it's been up 23%, 25%, 17%. So don't act like these numbers are crazy. This is pretty conservative here. So calculate, as you can see, almost $1.1 million, $24 to 62, $150 a month.

[Ken Coleman]

It's unbelievable. All right, let's jump it up a bit. All right, so let's. Let's talk about these people that are. They've been out of college for 10 years or so. No longer the young professional, but still young. 35.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so let's say by 35, you followed the plan, you're debt free, you've got the emergency fund, you are ready to invest.35, you would need to invest, and we're going to say 65, you got a little bit of a later start. 65 is still a great age to be retiring, to not have to work anymore. You're going to have to invest $375 a month, and you would Have a little over a million bucks. Now what you'll notice here, Ken, is you have to invest a whole lot more as you get older in order to hit that same goal. And the beautiful part here is you don't need to invest a million dollars to have a million dollars. If you look at my screen here, you contributed $135,000. The growth alone was $942,000. That's the magic money of you just staying in the market, staying put, letting compound growth do the work. 87% was just the growth. So let's say you get an even later start.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, let's take a 10 year swing here. Let's go to 45.

[George Campbell]

Okay, 45. Most people who call on the show at 45 go, I am way behind. I got nothing saved in retirement. You need to invest. You ready for the sticker shock? $1200 a month to have a little over a million in that one account. You see what I'm talking about here? We went from 150 bucks a month to 1200 bucks a month if you had a 20 year gap. And so the power of starting early is powerful. And you'll notice at 45 to 65, you had to contribute $288,000 to get that million. But at the ripe age of when we go back to that 24 to 62, look at this, you didn't contribute 280. You contributed about half a mil. Oh, sorry, I messed it up here. Let me go back to that. 150. All right, here we go. Look at this, $68,000. So not only did you have to contribute less per month, but it was a total of 68 grand that got you that million. That's wild. It's doable that 94% of that account balance was compound growth. And it's the power of starting early. And let me tell you, if you're listening and you're going, well, George, must be nice to be 24 or 35 or even 45. It is not too late for you. There is still hope yet. And that is just one account. And so think about it. You got a paid for house. Well, that reduces the expenses that you'll have in retirement. So it's not defined by your age but by your financial goal. It's a number and you can get there. So go use the calculator for yourself to get inspired not to lose hope, but to gain hope that you can build wealth for your family and leave a legacy. We'll drop a link in the description to that investment calculator for you guys to check out.

[Ken Coleman]

And this is why, by the way, you need to be using everything$, right. When you've got to get to a point to say, okay, I've got to be disciplined now. No longer am I going to let just money come in and leave and not know where it's going. So having a budget, like every dollar, to use that app, to have a coach, a personalized plan, that's what's going to help you be disciplined, to be able to put the right amount of money away to actually take care of you long term.

[George Campbell]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

Check out every dollar.

[George Campbell]

Ken, where am I going to get 400 bucks a month? I'm going, dude, your car payment's 600 bucks a month. I think we found the investment money. You just traded it for something going down value.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's exactly there.

[George Campbell]

Use every dollar. It'll. It'll find you that margin.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to John in Boston, Massachusetts. John, what's your question?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. And how you doing?

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[Caller]

My wife and I have been there about a year. I moved from South America here to Boston with her, which was a big life change. We're now making. I'm making 60, she's making 80 a year. And right now we're doing like half and half. And it's starting to weigh on me a little bit. My wife feels very strongly that her a little bit bigger salary and her savings, it should be all hers. And I don't feel like telling her that we should combine it, but it's in a way on me because we moved into an apartment that she preferred and we bought a car that she preferred. I'm just feeling the pressure of paying half the expensive expenses.

[George Campbell]

So you guys have never been aligned on money, right?

[Caller]

We've, I mean, we've tried. We did the financial piece, university. We took a couple of shortcuts. I would say, no, let's shortcuts.

[Ken Coleman]

You're not only feeling pressure, you're feeling depressed because your wife doesn't listen to one thing you say about money.

[George Campbell]

Does it make you feel disrespectful, affected, emasculated, A little small, a little left out?

[Caller]

Yeah, well, I'm trying to. I'm trying to keep up, you know, but keep up with what?

[George Campbell]

Marriage isn't about keeping up.

[Ken Coleman]

It's about a minute ago, making your life better, you said, I don't feel like telling her. I mean, you're. You have been absolutely put in a jar, my friend. And you don't. I don't need you to validate that. I was just trying to get you to realize what we're hearing. We're on your side, but you guys have a massive marriage communication and values alignment problem that you got to get fixed, George. And I can't give you some little one, two punch today. You guys need to get on the same page, and you may need a professional to help you or you're going to end up resenting your wife if you don't already. Are you feeling what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

Am I wrong?

[Caller]

Well, I feel like she's a bit more open to find a solution that it sounds like maybe I made it

[Ken Coleman]

sound a bit more okay, well, then if she's open. Okay, great. If she's open to meet you in the middle, then you guys need to have a candlelight dinner tonight. And we get out every dollar and we say we're going to combine finances. And then after we combine finances, we're going to put it in a budget and we are going to get aligned and we're not going to take shortcuts. We're just not going to do it because she's thinking a shortcut's okay. You're stressed out by the shortcut, which leads back to the same problem. You guys aren't on the same page. George, what would you give here?

[George Campbell]

Well, everything right now is, well, that's yours, this is mine. I make this money. You make this money. This is my thing. That's your thing. When you guys got married, everything became one total unity, right? You share a house, you share a bed, you should share a bank account, you should share the debts, share the load. Everything goes in one pot. If you want to have a successful marriage, you can do it separately. It's just going to be a whole lot harder. And there's so many more ways you can screw it up. And so you need to reset the conversation and say, hey, I have not done a good job leading in this area. I would like to restart and be totally unified for our financial goals so that we can win together. That's why we got married.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbells alongside. And we're here for you. 888-255-225 is the number. Robert joins us now in Denver, Colorado. Robert, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, Ramsey team. So I got a lot of debt. It kind of escalated back in June and I'm looking at things and I think I need some help.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. How can we help.

[Caller]

So I got a car that was too expensive, and. And I ended up putting a lot of my daily expenses on a credit card. And so it was at a point where I couldn't really afford the car payment, and I was putting everything else on a credit card. So now I'm kind of looking back at everything. And I just recently got rid of the car. And.

[George Campbell]

How'd you do that?

[Caller]

Negative. So I traded it in at a dealership. And yeah, I just got trade in value for the vehicle.

[George Campbell]

And that paid off the loan?

[Caller]

It did not. So I actually have too much debt to income, and I couldn't get a loan to pay for the negative equity, so I had to borrow money from my dad to pay that negative equity.

[George Campbell]

How much was that?

[Caller]

That was $4,100.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so 4,100 to dad. What else? What other debts do you have now?

[Caller]

And then I also have another $4,100 on a credit card. I got $3,000 in a personal loan and $34,000 in student loans.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so that's the big one. Is that split up into a bunch of separate loans?

[Caller]

No, I actually refinanced in June, and so now it's just one. One loan for that.

[George Campbell]

Okay. With a private lender?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, we're going to debt snowball this thing. Do you have the income to support it and do you have reliable transportation?

[Caller]

Right now I do. And that's another part of this. So I ended up borrowing money from my boss to buy a car.

[George Campbell]

Oh, my goodness.

[Caller]

My. My boss sold me one of his old work cars, and I'm currently making him payments on that.

[George Campbell]

Well, that's an awkward situation.

[Caller]

Yeah. So it's real debt and IOUs.

[George Campbell]

Hard to ask for a raise right now, isn't it?

[Caller]

A little bit.

[George Campbell]

What do you make?

[Caller]

So I make about $46,000 a year.

[George Campbell]

Doing what?

[Caller]

I'm an arborist.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And how old are you?

[Caller]

I am 27 years old.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Single.

[Caller]

Single.

[George Campbell]

Great. Which means we have a lot of time on our hands and we can cut our expenses down to the bone and no one is affected by you. We agree.

[Caller]

We agree.

[George Campbell]

Sweet. So what can we do to make more money? Because right now you've got a big pile of debt. Right. You've got as much debt as you do income.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Is that right?

[Caller]

That is true. That is right.

[George Campbell]

So that debt to income ratio, you're going. All right. Something needs to change here. We can't change the debt picture. There's nothing we can sell. You've Already got rid of the car. How much do you owe your boss?

[Caller]

I owe my boss $500.

[George Campbell]

Oh, what car was this? Was it a $500 car, or did you give him money on top of that?

[Caller]

It was. It was a $2,000 car. And I told him, I was like, hey, I really don't have the money right now, but I want the truck. And he's like, okay, well, is he garnishing your wages? He is not garnishing my wages. No, he is not.

[George Campbell]

Where did the 1500 come from?

[Caller]

It came from my tax return return.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Which is essentially your wages. That was money that would have been in your paycheck. Okay, well, Robert, the path forward is going to involve a whole lot of work. So what can you do? Is there anything in your field as an arborist that you can do on the side?

[Caller]

Probably I would just need tools for it, because right now my company supplies all the tools, and I'd have to go out and buy all that stuff. So that's kind of why I'm hesitant to do something like that. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Ken Coleman]

What can you do that it doesn't require you to buy tools?

[George Campbell]

You're breaking up on us.

[Caller]

Sorry about that. I could work overtime.

[George Campbell]

Boom. How much?

[Caller]

Yeah, I could probably get an extra hour or two a day.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. But what else? What I'm getting at is I want you to think outside of the box of. Well, I'm an arborist, and I usually use my company tools. So I'd have to go buy tools. No. What other skill sets? Or if it's just manual labor, what can you do? Do to make an additional thousand to $2,000 a month? That you'd have to answer it on the air. But that's the homework exercise, right? Okay, let's go make some more money and throw it at this debt. Because as a young guy, you have. And George put you on the spot. You have. You have all kinds of time, and the more you can work, the more money you make, the faster you get out of this. That's the mindset. What can I do? Where can I. Can I sell something? This kind of intensity gets you out of the situation.

[George Campbell]

Can you cut down some trees? Can you do landscaping? How wide is your skill set here?

[Caller]

So it's. It's between trimming and plant healthcare. So applying herbicides and fungicides, pesticides, things like that.

[George Campbell]

Great. Those guys are knocking on doors all day long selling people. And so you can be doing that. You can jump on a Facebook group and say, hey, here's what I provide. I'm not going to rip you off. I know what I'm doing. I'm an actual arbor. Here's what I provide, here's my services. You do a few good jobs in the neighborhood. Now all of a sudden you got 14 homes in the neighborhood that you're taking care of. You see where I'm going with this?

[Caller]

I do, yeah.

[George Campbell]

I mean, we just had a storm come through Nashville, Ken. The amounts of money people were charging just to remove a tree branch was astronomical.

[Ken Coleman]

I had to cut one of my trees down.

[George Campbell]

There you go.

[Ken Coleman]

Of course I.

[George Campbell]

Where were you, Robert? Yeah. So you see what we're getting at here. Get creative with the skills you have and if that runs runs out of steam, you can always do, you know, some of the side gig economy stuff. But you're going to make way more doing the thing that you're already good at.

[Caller]

I like that idea.

[George Campbell]

So yes to overtime because right now, at this, at this rate, it's going to take you forever to pay off this debt. You only have a few hundred bucks a month if you're lucky to throw at the debt, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Campbell]

But if we could throw two grand a month now, we're done in two years.

[Caller]

Uh huh.

[George Campbell]

That's the math. So that's your number is. I need to find two grand worth of margin to throw at these debts. Smallest to largest balance, attack the little one with a vengeance while making minimum payments on the rest. Once one balance is knocked out, frees up a payment applied to the next one. That's the debt snowball method.

[Caller]

I understand.

[George Campbell]

Have you ever done a budget?

[Caller]

Not really, no.

[George Campbell]

Today is your lucky day, Robert. I'm going to hook you up with every dollar if you promise to use it. This is our budgeting app. And as you go through the onboarding experience, it's going to personalize recommendations to help you find more margin. Just like I'm doing right now. It's going to do this on steroids all day long inside of the app, making a plan for every dollar. Are you in?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm in.

[George Campbell]

All right, 24 months. That I hope you do it even faster than that. But 24 months is the final, final, final cutoff. Make that a goal. Find the margin, stick to it. It. Oh, to be young again, Ken. Because when I was, that's what I was doing. When I started here at 23, I had $40,000 in debt. I wasn't making $40,000.

[Ken Coleman]

What'd you do?

[George Campbell]

I did about 17 side hustles. I was building websites for entrepreneurs and speakers and authors. I was doing marketing consulting. I was driving for Uber, driving for Lyft on top of cutting my groceries down to the bone.

[Ken Coleman]

How many hours a week do you remember how many hours you were doing?

[George Campbell]

It was at least two hours. Hours every night when I got home from work. And then I would go heavier on the weekends trying to knock out six hours.

[Ken Coleman]

And how much additional money were you making per month as a result of all of this?

[George Campbell]

I probably made an extra 25 grand my first year, just. Just in side hustles alone.

[Ken Coleman]

That's huge. That's huge. It's very doable.

[George Campbell]

It's possible. And the younger you are, the less responsibilities you have. Even better,

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Daniel in Chicago. Daniel, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. Yes, my, my father has a term life policy that he's considering canceling. There's 10 years left on the policy. My mother passed away in September, so he no longer has my mother to provide for. And he's always had a little bit of a strange relationship with life insurance. And so now he's highly considering canceling that policy. And I'm just trying to get him the best advice on whether that is a wise decision now or not. He doesn't have anyone else at home. You know, my mom was the only other person there, and so I'm just looking to give him the best advice I can on whether he should keep that policy or. Let's it go.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Tell me about the weird relationship. I didn't know you could have a weird relationship with term life insurance.

[Caller]

He has from, from his father and, and from his bringing up, you know, my, my grandfather never had life insurance. It's always been seen as something of, you know, people getting rich off of your death type of mentality.

He's, he's changed that view a little

bit over the years. I think your show has helped him with that. And, and he does understand that to help provide for your family, if you were to pass Type of thing.

[George Campbell]

How old is he?

[Caller]

He is 65 years old.

[George Campbell]

All right, and what is his net worth?

[Caller]

That's a little tough to say.

I mean, I think he estimated it

somewhere around the 350 to 400k when. When he said it was all said and done. That is his entire estate, his retirement, everything.

[George Campbell]

Got it?

[Caller]

That's what he's told me. He estimates it at.

[George Campbell]

And what's the face value of the policy?

[Caller]

$250,000.

[George Campbell]

I'll tell you right now, it's a steal of a deal because that's half of his net worth right there. Does he still have any debts, any mortgage?

[Caller]

No, his only debt is one car payment that he continues to pay on. But the house, estate and everything else has been paid paid off.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, the rule of thumb with life insurance is it exists to replace your income to cover the people who need it. And you're saying that there's no one who needs it at this point? The kids are grown and gone. They're doing well on their own. He has enough assets to cover final expenses, burial, the debts, all of that is what you're saying?

[Caller]

As far as what he's communicated to me, yes, he does have that. I think my one main concern is he has talked about. About dating in the future where there would be somebody that might be in the. Might be in the picture in the future.

[George Campbell]

That's a great reason to hold onto it because if he gets rid of it now, he's gonna have a real tough time getting it again. Especially for the rate he's paying.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

How much is he paying per month?

[Caller]

$80.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh my God.

[George Campbell]

Okay. What's his income?

[Caller]

Roughly about 50,000 a year.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So as a part of his world, it's not much. It's very reasonable, especially for a guy his age. It's not a huge policy, if we're going to be honest. We recommend 10 to 12 times your income. And so if he makes 50, it should be a half million dollar policy or more. And he's got 250. So he's got half of as much as he needs. But again, he doesn't fully need it. What he needs is a bigger nest egg. And unfortunately he's not going to be able to get that out of the insurance policy. So if I'm in his shoes, I would personally keep it for the peace of mind. Mind. Because if you look at the actual math on this, we're talking he's paying 960 a year for 10 more years, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So what we're really saying is, is it worth the risk transfer? If something were to happen to me from 65 to 75, there would be a $250,000 payout to the beneficiary for the low, low price of 9, 600 bucks.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

You see, so when I put it in those terms, I go, that's a good buy. I would hang on to that, not knowing what the future holds, not knowing if I'm going to get remarried one day. Ten years is a long time. That's.

[Caller]

That's been my advice to him. He has just been hesitant to take that advice, mostly because he feels that he should take that extra thousand dollars a year and invest it into something so it's guaranteed return, even though it's not as big of a return. Return.

[George Campbell]

Got it. At what age did your mother pass?

[Caller]

She was 63 years old. Wow.

[George Campbell]

Was it health reasons?

[Caller]

Yes. She died of lung cancer.

[George Campbell]

Oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[George Campbell]

Well, that would put things in perspective for me, going, we're not promised tomorrow. I mean, he's 65, not 25, and so the chances go up over time that he could pass. And so I hope he lives a very long life. 30 more years and the policy lapses and he goes, wow. Well, that was a waste of 9,600. I would love for us to be looking back, in hindsight, having never used it. That's sort of the goal with term life, is that you never have to use it, and that's the point of insurance. I don't want to have to use my car insurance, but I sure as heck I'm going to have it. So I can't make the decision for him, but I would find 80 bucks elsewhere to go invest, and he should be investing. And that 80 bucks is not going to make or break his world right now, and therefore, I would keep it for the next 10 years.

[Ken Coleman]

And, Daniel, again, we talk about this all the time on much bigger issues, much stickier issues. And in this, it's very difficult for an adult to convince or persuade their parent to do something. You can advise, you can give some ideas, but other than that, you got to let it go, and he's going to decide. I think your winning point is, hey, you mentioned wanting to date, and that could turn into something. Then this would be a good thing to have. I think George's point on that is probably the best case you can make for him, why he should keep it, because, again, it's just not that much money.

[George Campbell]

And if you don't have term life or you don't have enough, which can a. A lot of people, they go, well, I have it through my employer. And I go, how much do you have through your employer? $10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[George Campbell]

That's barely going to cover the coffin, man. You got to have 10 to 12 times your annual income. 15, 20 year level term policy. And the people that I have mine through, Ken has his through is Xander Insurance. You can jump onto Xander.com and just knock this out. It really is not that difficult. Some of these now can. The policies are no medical exam. You can literally do it online if you're in good health. If it's under a million dollars and you're. You're in good health, there's a lot of these where you don't even need to get your blood done.

[Ken Coleman]

I had to do the old. The nurse I've had to do that,

[George Campbell]

shows up, takes the blood.

[Ken Coleman]

But even that, even that is just really not a problem. They do such a good job of scheduling. Around five minutes, they come in, they do the thing, and you got peace of mind.

[George Campbell]

And by the way, it does not increase your chances of dying. If you get term life insurance, you're gonna. It's the same exact chances, regardless.

[Caller]

I know.

[Ken Coleman]

And I got three kids, a wife. I put a pretty good amount on me. I sleep with one eye.

[George Campbell]

You got enough in there that you're a little bit worried. I like that.

[Ken Coleman]

I told Stacy, don't get any ide ideas here, all right? There's a clause in there where George has to sign off on it after he does his investigation.

[George Campbell]

Oh, I like that.

[Ken Coleman]

You like that.

[George Campbell]

I love a clause.

[Ken Coleman]

What can I say? You like a clause where you're the main part of it. Well, can you imagine if I'd have done that with Xander? Is there a way to put George Camel in this? That he comes in, he's got a lot of questions. He's very suspicious. There's enough money in here to handle George hiring a private investing. And you would then determine whether or not Stacy gets the money?

[George Campbell]

If we determine if I get to be Camel PI sign me up.

[Ken Coleman]

I think I may ask him if I can write you into that. That could be great.

[George Campbell]

Stranger things have happened. I'm sure a lot of people are leaving me as beneficiary on their term life and in their wills for all I've done for them.

[Ken Coleman]

Now, that's a really dumb question, but let me tell you about good questions. People are flooding to Ask Ramsey, our free AI tool that's built and trained on our proven Ramsey pro principles. And today, George, we're going to break down the most asked question from this week. Are you ready? The main question is what are the best strategies for paying off debt while maintaining a good credit score?

[George Campbell]

Interesting. Okay, well, I'll tell you my take on this. You start by making a budget. Save $1,000 starter emergency fund, list all your debts except your mortgage, from smallest to largest balance regardless of the interest rate and pay minimum payments on all the debts except the smallest one. Knock out quick, move on to the next debt. And by the way, I cheated. That was from Ask Ramsey. Yeah, jokes on you guys see, it actually does. Life is an open book test. Why would I not utilize the tool at hand?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, Ask Ramsey is is is playing off of what we say on the air.

[George Campbell]

And here let's talk about the credit score angle. It hits this too for your credit score. It may dip a little as you pay off debt and close accounts, but that's okay. The goal is financial freedom, not a good credit score score. So I love this comment. Ken, can I read this to you real quick? Go for it. I just saw this in the Ramsey Facebook group. Donald said it has answered some very obscure questions I've had for a long time. I listened to about five total years of Ramsey shows and try to hear some situations, but this tool can answer them right away for your specific situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

There it is.

[Ken Coleman]

Go to Ramsey solutions dot com. You can't miss it. Right there at the top. Ask Ramsey. Or you know I like to send you the show notes folks.

[George Campbell]

Click click the link down there.

[Ken Coleman]

There's just good stuff in the show notes. Click the link.

[George Campbell]

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that. And I tell them, sure you can. It's a short term sacrifice for a long term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it. Never having the long term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom. But you need the right tools to to do it. Like our Every Dollar budget app in minutes it'll build you a step by step plan that's tailored to your money situation. And every day it finds ways you can free up extra money in your

[Ken Coleman]

budget so you can get rid of

[George Campbell]

your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today. Short Term sacrifice, long term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

Tax season is upon us. To get free checklists and guides that will help you file. Make sure that you go to Ramsey solutions.com taxes ramseysolutions.com taxes all right, let's go to Josh in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Josh, how you can. Can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, Can I hear me? So make sure I can hear me.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, we hear you.

[Caller]

Well, it's an honor. It's an honor to be here on the show with you guys. Y' all are awesome.

[Ken Coleman]

How can we help?

[Caller]

So my question is my dad's going to be calling me here shortly and I need some help with communicating with him without overstepping as being the son. He's going to be giving me good news that he's retiring after six years with a of couple company and he wants to take out his whole retirement and pay off the house, which I'm okay with. It's not really a house, it's a mobile home. And he has a lot of other debt though. Like a lot of other debt. Cars, a lien on the house.

[George Campbell]

Why is he retiring like a lot?

[Caller]

He wants to go to another company. He said he offered, he was offered the job today.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so he's not retiring, he's switching jobs.

[Caller]

Yeah, but I just wish he would take the money and maybe move it to another account. It's $70,000 is all it is, but it's all he's got.

[Ken Coleman]

But what is it? Is it in a 401k?

[Caller]

It's in single stock with the company.

[George Campbell]

Yikes.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, okay. So it's really not retirement money. It's just he's got stock and the company.

[Caller]

Right?

[George Campbell]

Yeah. It's not. Is it trapped in a retirement account or is it a non retirement account buying stock up from the company? Like an employee stock purchase program?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's like a stock option so he can cash out. Okay. So he has a lean on his mobile home. Yeah.

[Caller]

From my understanding, like he, he wasn't really upfront with, with me. Well, about my wife about it. He had just talked to her at lunch and he's going to be calling me because I just got off work.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I see. So he's all excited. Feel like he could ring in while we're talking to you. This is like fresh.

[Caller]

Oh man.

[George Campbell]

So you don't want to be a buzz kill going dad, congrats and don't do this really dumb thing.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm just having a little struggling moment right now.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, what's his total death? What's his total. Total debt?

[Caller]

It's $800 on the house for sure. He's got. He just rolled over the car twice, so I don't even want to know how much that he rolled over.

[George Campbell]

Negative equity twice.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Oh, my God.

[Caller]

And then he's got a bunch of credit card debt that I know of.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, he's going to get taxed, so let's. Let's reframe this. Let's reframe this. I appreciate. Appreciate you calling us about this, but we need to reframe this whole thing because your dad is excited. He's so excited. He called your wife at lunch today.

[Caller]

Right?

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, this is hilarious. And he's coming into some money, and he's excited, and he's 62 years old, and he's made a bunch of boneheaded decisions with money. All right, let's just. Can we pour all that into the cup? Because that's the cocktail we're doing dealing with. All right? And you got to think through this. And as an objective bystander that you called, say, hey, what's your opinion? This is my take. Okay? All you can do is ask him some really good questions. Their questions are better than suggestions. When we're talking about our dad, who's excited about cashing out and has made a bunch of bonehead decisions, you would you agree with that?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so questions like. And George, you jump in here, popcorn in. But some questions are, hey, dad, are aware how much you're gonna have to pay in taxes on that stock? I'd start with that.

[George Campbell]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

And who knows what he's gonna say? But that. That question versus a suggestion is it's your best chance of allowing him to think through some stuff that he may not think through. And you're not making a suggestion as you. Or if you said, dad, you know, you're gonna. You're gonna pay this in taxes. So here's what I think you ought to do. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And he's like, hey, hey, man, I just called to hear you say congrats. So questions, not suggestions. That would be my advice. First question I would ask is, dad, are you aware what the tax implications? What are you going to do? You know, what you're going to pay in taxes on that? And hopefully he registers. Oh, so I'm not walking away with $70,000 or whatever it is. I'm going to end up walking away with this. And then you go, what are you thinking about doing with that, that money and then when he tells you what he, what he's going to tell you, then you can ask some other questions. I just think as it's the sun, that's about all you can do. George, I want to bring you in here.

[George Campbell]

You're not going to be able to force him to do anything. But if you can scare him into it or excite him into something, that's a better route. The, the main question is finding out if this is in a retirement account or in a brokerage account because that vastly, you know, changes the advice here. If it. Either way, we want to get out of this single stock. That is very risky. If it's in a brokerage account, it's simpler because like casual Ken said, there's going to be some capital gains taxes and that's it versus early withdrawal penalties on top of income tax, which is going to be a whole lot more. But let me show you the math on this. If he just left the 70 grand and he rolled it over to a rollover Ira. So direct rollover, never withdraws the money, but rolls it over to an IRA in his control, sells the stock inside of that and buys diversified mutual funds. Now we're talking, and now you'll see an 11% return over the long haul. So from 58 to 68, if he does that, his 70 grand turns into over 200 grand. That's pretty wild, right?

[Caller]

That is wild. And I just, I kind of know that.

[George Campbell]

Pull up the calculator, show it, say, hey, hey, I talked to my financial advisor about your situation because I was curious as to what they would say because now it's not just your opinion against his. You brought a professional into it and said, hey, I talked to this guy, he thinks you really need to be thinking about the taxes on this and the implications of unplugging the compound growth, withdrawal penalties. And it would be a much wiser use to use your future income to pay down this debts, pay down the mobile home instead of robbing your retirement early. Because here's what it will turn into if you just left it alone and never added a dime. See, now we're equipped with some facts. We're not leaning into just anger or emotion. It's just very calm, very much. You love him, you want the best for him. You have no skin in the game here. You would treat him like he was a friend, friend of yours. So the question is, does he respect your opinion enough?

[Caller]

Oh,

[Ken Coleman]

there's your answer.

[Caller]

We've, we've been Dave Ramsey fans for a while. You know who.

[George Campbell]

Not him.

[Caller]

I follow. Me and my. Yeah, me and. Me and my wife.

[George Campbell]

Oh, okay. I was like, you and your dad,

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, we already got the answer. When you ask someone, does he respect your opinion and your. And your answer is. I mean, that's like a whole paragraph and one sound.

[George Campbell]

I think the third party angle based on what you said is the best route to go of. Hey, this is a big decision. I'm so excited for you. This is a huge next chapter of your life, and I just thought I'd bounce it off of a friend of mine who's a financial advisor, and he's got no skin in the game. He just had this to say. And then you share everything we've talked about. I hope to calculate.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, Ask questions, though. Ask questions.

[George Campbell]

Listen, he can't get defensive if you're just asking questions.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but. Yes, but it's the right kind of question. In other words, don't ask a question where he feels pinned in. Just be like real light. Like, as soon as the call comes in, just go, okay, I don't want to tell Dad. I don't want to tell Dad. I don't want to tell Dad. I want to ask, ask, ask. And I want to just be low key light. And let's just see where it goes from there. Because the minute. Listen after your long sigh and you reaching for the words to answer the question, does he respect your opinion? I already know where this is at, and this is really hard. And by the way, I'm going through this in a different level. My par. Great financial shape, but my parents are 75 and 74, and it's just a function of life that when they get to this age and your dad's younger, I understand, but still, it's like the parent becomes the child and the child becomes the parent, and that's just life. And so you've got to honor, but still keep a boundary there. And I catch myself all the time kind of saying something in a way that I go, well, that was a little bit like, you know, and so just be really careful here because it's his life, his mistakes. There's only so much, but at least

[George Campbell]

you can sleep well knowing you said your piece. And you make this the Oreo method here. All right. The top layer is. Dad, I'm so excited for you. That's awesome. Middle layer, a little bit of advice going into the questioning. And then the bottom layer again, I'm so excited for you. That's the way to attempt it so he doesn't get too defensive and shut down.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th, 15th, then face your taxes. But here's a better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way they can take the stress off your shoulders once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait. Ramsey trusted pros can book up fast. Go to ramseysolutions.com tax taxpro to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com taxpro.

[Ken Coleman]

Our scripture today is Proverbs 9:9,9. Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still. Teach the righteous and they will add to their learning. Our quote today from one of Georgia's favorite entertainment icons, Joan Rivers.

[George Campbell]

A classic.

[Ken Coleman]

People say that money is not the key to happiness, but I always figured if you have enough money, you can have a key made.

[George Campbell]

That's actually pretty good.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you, Joe.

[George Campbell]

To the late Joan Rivers.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, Zachary is up in Springfield, Michigan. Zachary, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. Hey, Ken. Hey, George. Hey, appreciate you guys taking my phone call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

Yeah, I was wondering, wondering if you guys could share some advice or, or wisdom. So I've been reading the Bible lately. It gets me thinking if my wife and I are, are being generous enough at the moment. But I, I know the Bible talks about tithing and I'm wondering if that's the best approach. Approach when I'm on baby steps four through six.

[George Campbell]

Baby steps four through six. And you say you're tithing and you're saying, is that enough? You're doing 10% of your income.

[Caller]

No, no, no. I know the Bible talks about tithing. I'm currently given about 1 1/2 to 2% of my, well, 1/2 gross income, 2% take home pay.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, what do you believe?

[Caller]

I'm wondering if.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's just. Well, but this is, this is so, so if you're going to come at this from a biblical, biblical point of view, then it comes down to what the Bible says. What do you believe it says? Because there's a lot of people that have a lot of different opinions about a lot of different parts of Scripture. And so, and so ultimately, you know, we can't tell you if you're giving enough, but I can ask you a few questions. So the first question is, do you believe in tithing? Do you believe that's something that you should do.

[Caller]

It's something that I definitely want to work on to.

[Ken Coleman]

I didn't ask you that. I didn't ask you that.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, yeah. I do believe in tithing. I don't think the Bible would mention it as many times otherwise.

[Ken Coleman]

So, so there's that standard. And again, you didn't call, and I'm not preaching at you, but you called and you asked based on reading the Bible. And so that's between you and God as to how you take obedience on that particular issue. Okay. So you don't need me to, you know, preach at you. So you've already stated, well, I do believe I should be tithing. I'm not now. I, I believe I, I'm going to work up to it. But again, that's, that's up. That's your deal. I do believe in the tithe, and I think that you should. And so that's a baseline. And many people in different sects of the faith still believe that there's a tithe and an offering. And again, the offering is above and beyond the tithe, and that's between you and God as well. Okay. So without getting into a theological, you know, foundational lesson or some type of debate, you get to answer, am I giving enough that you get to answer that? We.

[George Campbell]

It's a matter of the heart.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm not trying to evade your, your question, but that's as, as solid as I can answer that. You have to decide.

[Caller]

Right. I think maybe a more specific question is if that would apply to people of all ages, of all incomes. I mean, we're in the financial good situation right now where let's say I did want to go about kiting right now and go from 1.5% up to 10%, it would just kind of slow down. You know what I'm, what I'm putting into, like the brokerage right now, which is in the future going to be for house and then also like for retirement. We are looking into saving for, well, children's.

[Ken Coleman]

So here's, here's what I would tell you to do. Okay. I would tell you to go read more scripture, buy a book or two on tithing, go listen to some sermons on tithing. And I think you're going to hear a consensus. And if Dave were sitting here, and I'm not going to try to quote Dave, but if he were sitting, sitting here, I'm pretty certain he would say that that's the wrong mindset to look at tithing that if I tithe it's going to slow down my financial progress. He would say, if you tithe and you give, you will receive more blessing. And it doesn't mean it's dollar for dollar. So that's bad theology. I'm not saying that, but this idea. And George, I want you to weigh in on this as well. This idea that if I tithe and give a tenth of my increase, my income to the Lord who blesses me with it, it's his money, I'm not going to be slowed down at all. But again, that's a spiritual mindset in believing in what the Bible says about tithing. I want to bring George in. George, one of my.

[George Campbell]

I love what you said, Pastor Ken. And I want to add to that.

[Ken Coleman]

I'll be taking an offering, by the way, at the end of the heart of this.

[George Campbell]

I feel like it's actually a really good spiritual challenge for you, because what we're really saying is you see it as a finite pie. If I take this slice away, then I don't have that slice for xyz, for the house, for the kids. And I think what's so cool about the Bible is it's outside of a pie. It's. We can't look at it in finite when you're talking about the infinite, right? And so we can't think of it like, if I give 10%, I won't have enough to pay off the mortgage. I think what you'll find is when you were obedient, when you are faithful, you never lack, you are given enough to manage. And I can throw some verses for you to, to look up later. You can watch this back. Proverbs 3, 9 and 10. Honor the Lord with your wealth, with the first fruits of all your crops. Then your barns will be filled to overflowing. Your vats will brim over with new wine. Malachi 3, 9 and 10. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse. Not one and a half percent whole tithe, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this, says the Lord Almighty. Whoo. Them fighting words and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. And finally, Matthew 6:26. I love this one. Look at the birds. They don't plant or harvest or store food in barns, for your Heavenly Father feeds them, and aren't you far more valuable to him than they are? So I think at the heart of this, it's a scarcity versus abundance spiritual challenge. Zachary. And this is. You are not alone in this. I struggle with this.

[Dave Ramsey]

This.

[George Campbell]

This is still something I'm figuring out and grappling with because it doesn't make sense on paper. Right. But I think if you can learn to live on the 90 of what God has blessed you with, which I assume you have a great income. Right. What's your household income?

[Caller]

So gross is about 101.

[George Campbell]

That's a pretty fabulous income anywhere in America. Would you agree?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. No, it's enough for us.

[Ken Coleman]

And how much are you putting away? Are you right at the 15% in baby stuff of four?

[Caller]

I. I was doing the math. It's closer to 20%. It's. I mean, overall retirement, we're putting about 27.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

A little over 27.

[George Campbell]

27%.

[Ken Coleman]

So now you're going. You're going 12% extra above what we teach, and you're having a hard time giving 10%.

[Caller]

Oh, no, I'm sorry. It's 27,000, so.

[George Campbell]

Oh, actually, 27,000 out of your 101.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, no, yeah, yeah.

[George Campbell]

That's 27.

[Ken Coleman]

27. I didn't have to take my shoes off. That was easy math. I'm sorry.

[George Campbell]

Here's my challenge for you. You try it. You try it for a month. Try for a month. If your life is worse and you hate it and you're gonna retire broke because of it, you can. You can go back to the way you were doing it. But I think what you'll find is that when you're spiritually challenged, you will actually mature and you will find that you lack for nothing. That's. That's going to be my hypothesis in this fun social experiment. So, Zachary, you call us back and let us know how it goes. But I think there's room to tithe. I mean, you read about the widow giving her last pennies.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, here's the irony in this, Zachary, and I'm not picking on you, but I do. I want to give you this context before we let you go. You are concerned about tithing the 10% because you feel it's going to slow you down in these other areas. Areas. And then we dig into the baby step four, and we recommend 15% of your income towards retirement. And you're doing 27%. So there is fear driving all of this. You're afraid if I tithe, I won't be able to do as much as I'd like to do over here. And we've got a tried and true system, and we say 15% is enough. And George, can run through the investment calculator all day long till he's blue in the face. So what we're getting out of this is that you're really afraid, and fear is not a good driver for any decision. Would you agree with that?

[Caller]

Yeah. No, that's fair. There's definitely some anxiety of, like, currently given. Like I said, both. 1500 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's what I want you to do. Extra homework. George gave you some verses. I want you to do a little Bible study tonight or tomorrow while it's fresh on. Worry. What does the Bible say about worry?

[George Campbell]

Be anxious for nothing. That one comes to mind.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, George, you were all over it today. I mean, you got. You pulled up a concordance over there.

[George Campbell]

I got my concord. I love it.

[Ken Coleman]

If I could play a keyboard, I would have noodled underneath of you while where you were. See, you can play the keys.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I can hit a nice chord. You'd be you. You. I can fake it.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, if I put an acoustic guitar on you, you could have.

[George Campbell]

There we go.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you call that?

[George Campbell]

Little alter call?

[Ken Coleman]

No, it's if. If noodling is on the keys. What's the. What do you call the equivalent?

[George Campbell]

Duh. Oh, don't quit me strumming that.

[Ken Coleman]

Strumming. Strum while I preach. All right.

[George Campbell]

Speaking of.

[Ken Coleman]

Speaking of preaching, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[George Campbell]

This is the Ramsey show.

[Caller]

The Ramsey show, live, is your chance

[George Campbell]

to actually be part of the show. Ask your burning question live.

[Ken Coleman]

Finally win that money argument in your house.

[George Campbell]

My mom occasionally asked us to borrow money.

[Caller]

That's a no all the way around.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm a spender, he's a saver.

[George Campbell]

I'm a tightwad at heart. How many tightwads are out there? Thank you for making yourselves known.

[Ken Coleman]

Do a pre prenup. What's a pre prenup?

[George Campbell]

I don't know. I thought there'd be something.

[Ken Coleman]

The Ramsay show, live, is your chance to be in the room with other people that are on the same journey as you. There's always something you can do to better your situation.

[George Campbell]

We don't sell magic wands. And so that person in the mirror, they are really the secret sauce. They are the solution.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm really, really proud of you.

[George Campbell]

Thank you. That's awesome.

[Ken Coleman]

That's pretty fun. You guys are great.

[George Campbell]

The Ramsey show, live, one night only.

[Caller]

Coming to a city near you.