Follow a Proven Plan, Quit Making It Up As You Go

Summary

The Ramsey Show

Episode Summary: “Follow a Proven Plan, Quit Making It Up As You Go”

Date: November 11, 2025
Hosts: Jade Warshaw & Dr. John DeLoney

Episode Overview

This episode centers on why following a proven financial plan is critical for building wealth and overcoming financial setbacks, as opposed to improvising or mixing and matching strategies. Jade Warshaw and Dr. John DeLoney answer live callers' questions about debt, budgeting, investing, family dynamics, and the emotional hurdles that often stand in the way of progress. The hosts reinforce the importance of commitment, sacrifice, and teamwork on the path to financial peace, emphasizing both the psychological and mathematical elements of managing money.

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Main Themes

• The Power of a Proven Plan
  Following a step-by-step, proven system works; straying from it leads to frustration and slow progress.
• Emotional Side of Money
  Money decisions are rarely just about math—they're deeply rooted in emotions, relationships, and family history.
• Sacrifice and Priority Setting
  Short-term sacrifices yield long-term gains; aligning values and priorities is essential for success.
• Accountability and Transparency
  Financial unity in relationships—combining incomes and budgets—drives greater progress.

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Key Discussions and Call Highlights

1. Newlyweds with Debt and Kids (William from Atlanta)

Timestamps: 00:11–09:00

• William, 22, is engaged to a woman with two children; they’re expecting a third.
• Combined income: ~$100,000/year; debt: $15,668; big expenses: daycare, rent, wife’s car loan.
• Hosts stress the need for precise budgeting, not “ballparking” figures. Suggest a “mock budget” as a first step.
• Daycare (~$1,200/mo) and rent ($1,050/mo) are expensive, but car loan ($535/mo) with negative equity is the main budget-strainer.
• Quote [03:12, William]: “I’ve never really had to budget around kids.”
• Jade: Cut expenses “down to the bone” and consider extra work to create margin. Lifestyle cuts are necessary.

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2. Retirement Fears & Gazelle Intensity (Allen from St. Louis)

Timestamps: 09:53–19:47

• Allen, 58, served as bi-vocational pastor, recently debt-free (paid off house after insurance payout from tornado).
• Now starting retirement savings with $20k invested, $40k in savings; household income: $120k.
• Is saving $1,800/mo for retirement enough?
• Jade: “At this point, your best option is to put as much into retirement as you can.” [12:58]
• John: Emotional toll of being “Gazelle Intense” for years, but not following the official plan—“not our plan, your plan.”
• Discussion on following all of the Baby Steps in order vs. cherry-picking:
  • Quote [17:25, Jade]: “If you don’t do the plan the way the plan’s written…you’re gonna end up chasing your tail.”

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3. Family Assistance vs Enabling (Thomas from NYC)

Timestamps: 22:07–30:08

• Thomas wants to pay for his sister’s car repair to see family for Thanksgiving; recognizes a history of “bailing out.”
• Internal conflict: desire for family togetherness vs. enabling bad habits.
• John: “If you’re going to give money every time she calls, you can’t get mad when she calls.” [24:02]
• Jade challenges Thomas to weigh the consequences and discuss boundaries with his spouse.
• Resolution: Thomas decides not to pay for the car; will see family another time.

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4. Couples, Marriage, and Joining Finances (Anthony from Providence)

Timestamps: 32:31–41:56

• Anthony and wife (with a 1-year-old) make $85k but have $20k debt; struggling to get on same page financially.
• Still splitting finances, using Venmo for shared expenses even as a married couple.
• John says the “bigger issue than debt is a spouse who doesn’t share the same values” [35:13]; urges deep, vulnerable conversation and unity.
• Jade: Work towards transparency, understand each other’s hesitance.
• John: “That ends today. That’s how roommates in college handle stuff.” [39:10]

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5. Prenups, Power Imbalance, and Red Flags (Allison from Omaha)

Timestamps: 43:30–52:03

• Allison, pregnant, gave up successful business to work in fiancé’s family business; not paid, only given a credit card.
• Fiancé reconsidering marriage and combining finances after baby—a “marching band of red flags.”
• John: “Behavior is a language. This man has said, ‘I do not want you a part of my life unless it is on my terms.’” [47:39]
• Hosts advise Allison to protect herself and recognize the sunk cost fallacy; encourage her not to “make it work” at the cost of her dignity and security.

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6. Investing Extra Cash Safely (Mac from Chicago)

Timestamps: 54:25–63:32

• Mac is debt-free, has $110k saved (in high-yield account), maxes out Roth 401k, saves $2,500/mo.
• Unsure whether to invest more aggressively or keep saving for a home.
• Jade: “I might keep it in a high-yield savings account and keep plugging away until I know I want to buy a house.” [57:06]
• John: “Part of investing is risk…put yourself in a position where you don’t owe anybody anything.” [61:07]
• Primary advice: Resist speculative investing, keep flexibility until life direction is clear.

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7. Single Mom Budget Crunch (Hannah from West Virginia)

Timestamps: 64:55–74:47

• Making $77,500/year but monthly expenses outpace income; high daycare ($1,400/mo) and rent ($1,590/mo).
• Owes $24k on car worth ~$13k; $6k in credit card debt.
• Jade/John: Explore moving to campus housing, downsizing to 1BR, selling or trading-in car and taking a beater, pursuing child support, side work from home.
• John: “The guy’s got a responsibility—he needs to participate.” [72:07]
• Homework: Research car value, negotiate debt, and restructure housing to close the gap.

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8. Divorce, Emotional Fallout & Meaning Beyond Money (Mark from Detroit)

Timestamps: 76:21–84:52

• Mark and ex-wife followed Ramsey plan, are financially secure post-divorce but feel purposeless and regret focusing only on money.
• John: “At some point you chose to stop caring…you can choose to start caring. It’s a choice. It is not a feeling.” [82:13]
• Encouraged to grieve the loss, seek therapy, and consider rebuilding connection—with himself, children, or even ex-spouse.

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9. Single Dad, Massive Credit Card Debt (Dave from LA)

Timestamps: 86:11–95:00

• Incurred $140k credit card debt due to a family crisis, high mortgage, no disposable income.
• Considering debt consolidation/settlement companies; Jade/John caution: “Don’t do that, it’s a total scam.” [92:13]
• Must avoid new debt, explore added income, consider severe budgeting and lifestyle change; March will reduce expenses by $1,500/mo.

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10. Young Adults & Students: Debt-Free Rapid Fire

Timestamps: 117:06–125:39

• Rex: Recent graduate, $75k debt, almost no expenses, saving $5,000/mo.—told to throw all money at student loans; avoid detours, “walk the path.”
• Ben: 20-year-old college student, wants to be “motivated” to save. Jade: Set a tangible savings goal (tuition), work 15+ hrs/week if possible. Motivation follows clear purpose and discipline.

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11. Starting a Business While Providing for Family (Keaton from Denver)

Timestamps: 100:39–105:51

• Keaton wants to leave a 6-figure sales job to launch a competing manufacturing business.
• No debt, $70k in savings, renting.
• Hosts: Budget for 24 months of living, outline fallback options, set boundaries around “turnoff” point if it doesn’t succeed. Spouse must be on board and aware of the plan.

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12. The Psychology of Money and Sacrifice

Timestamps: 96:01–116:57

• Repeatedly reinforce:
  • True financial change requires short-term pain for long-term gain.
  • “Motivation” won’t last—discipline, sacrifice, and following through are key.
  • Money touches every area of your life and is rarely just about dollars and cents.
• Quote [109:56, Jade]: “Change requires change. That’s all I can say. And it’s rarely easy. It’s never comfortable. That’s just part of it.”

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Notable Quotes

• Dr. John DeLoney [16:47]: “At 58, like, I’m looking at a guy who has given his whole life to serving people and y’all have a math problem.”
• Jade Warshaw [19:09]: “You gotta walk the plan the way the plan states. Millions of people have done this. And so there’s a reason that it’s called a proven plan, not just a plan.”
• Dr. John DeLoney [37:12]: “Open your hands and say, ‘I’m scared to death with how we handle money. I don’t want our one-year-old growing up like this.’”
• Jade Warshaw [117:15]: “Just walk the path—10 months and you’re done.”

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Practical Takeaways

• Budget ruthlessly and precisely. No “ballparking.”
• Follow the Baby Steps in order. Don’t mix and match.
• Get on the same page as your spouse. Combine finances, budget together, and communicate deeply.
• When facing a crisis, avoid consolidation scams. Focus on income and expense reduction.
• Short-term sacrifice for long-term gain—downsize, drive a beater, pick up extra work; it’s temporary.
• Invest only after financial foundation is secure. Prioritize flexibility if major life choices (e.g., housing, relocating) are on the horizon.
• Embrace the emotional side of money. Acknowledge fear, grief, and the psychological roots of financial decisions.

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Memorable Moments

• Jade’s relentless realism about sacrifice: “Sell all your furniture, sleep on air mattresses—we’ve done that. Do what it takes.”
• John’s empathy for callers dealing with grief, enabling loved ones, and the psychological weight of money decisions.
• Allison’s “marching band of red flags” story—a cautionary tale about security, boundaries, and self-worth in relationships.
• The running theme: If you don’t follow the plan as designed, “it’s just some things you heard that you might try out.”

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Final Segment & Closing Advice

• “Every action you take is a vote for the type of person you wish to become.” – James Clear [116:55]
• Walk the proven path, make tough choices, and don’t give up.
  Jade: “Keep going. Do not give up, do not give up, do not give up.” [115:55]

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Useful for listeners seeking:

• Real-world financial advice rooted in discipline and accountability
• Emotional support and tough love for hard financial choices
• Understanding the importance of unity in relationships and families on a financial journey
• Strategies for breaking cycles of paycheck-to-paycheck living and debt

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For more guidance, visit: ramseysolutions.com

Transcript

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Jade Warshaw]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey network here in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. All right, let's get it on and poppin. Talking about your life and your money. The number's easy. 888-255-2225 gets you on the line here with Dr. John DeLoney. My name is Jade Warshoff. Let into it. William is in Atlanta, Georgia. What's up, William? Will? I am.

[Caller 1 (William)]

Hey, how are y' all doing?

[Jade Warshaw]

Good. How can we help today?

[Caller 1 (William)]

So I've got. I am 22 years old and I am engaged recently. She has two children of her own that I've inherited, and we are have. We have one on the way.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So I with her.

[Caller 1 (William)]

We've kind of, you know, planned. We're getting married. We are one, as Dave likes to say.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

We're kind of thinking of the ballpark.

[Caller 1 (William)]

Of what our debt would be together. And it's around 15 to $16,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 1 (William)]

And we're really trying to figure out what the best way to pay that off is with the income that we.

[Jade Warshaw]

Currently make right now or after you get married.

[Caller 1 (William)]

After we get married. We'll be getting married at the end of this year.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. First thing I want you to do is not ballpark anything.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Get an exact dollar amount.

[Caller 1 (William)]

It's 15, 668.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So you got that.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Way to go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right. And you're. You're 22 and you're about to have three kids.

[Caller 1 (William)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All I got to say is, dang, Gina, it's a lot of kids.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. What kind of money are you guys making?

[Caller 1 (William)]

So right now I'm making right at $52,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

What about her?

[Caller 1 (William)]

And she is making.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I'm sorry.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. What is. What will your soon to be wife be earning?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

42,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good. Okay. And is she going to continue to work after this baby or what's the plan?

[Caller 1 (William)]

Yeah, so she's actually got a really unique opportunity. My mom does Medicare insurance policies and everything. She was a cop before this. I was a cop before I started doing what I'm doing now. So she has gotten a really nice opportunity to work for my mom. My mom only makes her come in three days a week for five hours at a time, and she pays her $1,100 every two weeks.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, sweet. So the main question then is how do we. Is it. How do we combine our money to Pay off this debt or just. We know how to combine the money. Jade, how do we pay off this debt?

[Caller 1 (William)]

Yeah, essentially. How do we pay it off? What I'm really struggling with is, you know, as you said, 22 with three kids, and I was just kind of.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Thrown into the other two.

[Caller 1 (William)]

And obviously that's not their fault. And I love them to death, but I've never really had to budget around kids. I've always just kind of budgeted around myself.

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely.

[Caller 1 (William)]

So just kind of jumping into things. It's kind of weird for me to be able to just jump into it and be like, okay, well, I have to spend this much on groceries now, and we have to pay this much in rent, everything. And then even with some of the money we have left over at the end of the month, we're still kind of paycheck to paycheck as it is.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now, are you already sharing money or is this just hypotheticals? Like, are you hypothetically. I'm sorry, when you said that, we're kind of. You said, well, we're doing this, but we're already kind of running out of money. Is that hypothetical or have you guys already combined money? Because what I was going to suggest suggest is you guys do a mock budget of what it'll be like once you're married and you have her income there. You have his or yours.

[Caller 1 (William)]

We've already combined everything at this point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so y' all make a hundred grand and you're already paycheck to paycheck.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it daycare?

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 1 (William)]

Daycare is a very big expense.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much is daycare? Because your wife's making 1100 a week. 4400.

[Caller 1 (William)]

How much is daycare every two weeks?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, every two weeks. So she's making 2200. How much is daycare?

[Caller 1 (William)]

Daycare is not far off. It's about 1200.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, okay. So there's still something to be said for her paycheck or yours.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When it comes to food, whatever. You think the number is going to be multiplied BY probably like 3,000%?

[Caller 1 (William)]

Yeah, that, that's been the biggest one for me, is groceries. I never knew that they could call so much.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Bro, you don't. How old are these two kids you're inheriting?

[Caller 1 (William)]

Four and two.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Just wait till they're 12 and 14.

[Jade Warshaw]

And how much is rent? What are you guys paying for? Are you renting or what is it?

[Caller 1 (William)]

Yeah, so we're renting. We live in a two bed, one bath house outside of Atlanta. I pay 1050amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

1050.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

A month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 1 (William)]

And then bill wise, we try to keep our power below, but power bill rates here in Georgia have been skyrocketing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 1 (William)]

So like last month our bill was $200, and then we got it this month and it was almost $400.

[Jade Warshaw]

What about cars? What about your cars?

[Caller 1 (William)]

So my car is paid off. I don't like new cars. I have a 99 Tahoe that I drive around and she has a 2021 Traverse that she is upside down in what she owes. And I. 25,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Ooh.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what's it worth?

[Caller 1 (William)]

Probably around 15.

[Jade Warshaw]

My, my, my. What's the payment on it?

[Caller 1 (William)]

535.

[Jade Warshaw]

My gosh. Okay.

[Caller 1 (William)]

And our interest rate is 6.7%.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, talking about paying off this debt, that's gonna, that's if you guys can get out of that, that's gonna free a lot of margin for you.

[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now that 15,000, is that private sale or is that what a dealer would give you? That?

[Caller 1 (William)]

Yeah, that's private sale. We've, we've gone to a dealer and just seen like, you know, trade in. Wise, could you get in something older and just kind of the rest of.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

It roll over or how.

[Caller 1 (William)]

We could work it out, but they would offer way less than we can. Of course, they sell a lot more in private.

[Jade Warshaw]

So what I would be looking at here is so you owe 25. I mean, there, if you wanted to get out of it, you could try to possibly get a loan for the difference, but you'd still have to get something cash, which you'd probably spend about 8,000 on. So you'd be at 18 instead of 25. Whether or not that's worth it, probably not. I think you guys can just bear this out by doing the two things we always teach, which is there's really only two ways to do this, John. I mean, he's either going to work more and she's going to work more, or you're going to cut things out of your budget or you're going to do a combination of both. That's the way this works. So listening to you run this out, I mean, I'm, I'm estimating you're taking home about 5,800amonth. Does that sound about right?

[Caller 1 (William)]

Yeah, roundabout. And, and the good thing about my job is I work a union job as well, and I just started. So in four years I'll be making about 93,000, which I love that.

[Jade Warshaw]

But today you've got a debt problem of 16,000. Now, let me be clear. I, I truly don't think you guys need to be combining money until after you're married. That's where I am on this. But you're already there. Now I doubt you're going to go backwards since you're getting married at the end of the year. Yeah but the, the key here is we've got to find margin. 1050 on rent's not bad. The 1200 on the daycare is not bad. 400 on utilities. I think there's margin there that you can find by trimming back some of the, the, the expenses you guys have because your big areas, daycare, unless your insurance is through the roof. But the big three areas seem to be okay. I think it's a lifestyle thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Y' all go to restaurants a lot?

[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You don't eat out at all? Y' all cook at home?

[Caller 1 (William)]

Yeah, she cooks at home every now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Or you have maybe you have some dogs or like some cats or something that you're spending a lot of money on. Pets. That's a big one.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You gotta just take the sucker down to, down to bone man on your expenses.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what I would do. That's the answer.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you have to get a second job on top of it, yeah, you gotta work extra. But y' all gotta grind it out. This just is hard, man.

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[Jade Warshaw]

All right, Allen is in St. Louis, Missouri. What's going on Allen?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Hey, thank you for taking my call. All I'm in a good predict predicament. My wife and I have recently went debt free. Paid off our house about a year ago.

[Jade Warshaw]

Way to go.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

The situation is we I passed our church, I'm bi vocational and been doing that for 26 years now. We made a choice when we got married and started having kids for my wife to stay at home. So I've been working a full time job plus extra jobs all these years just to make ends meet. So we're in a position right now where we're both 58 years old a Year ago, when we paid off our house, we just started investing for retirement. My question is, I feel like I've been gazelle intense for the last 26 years, but I feel like I still need to keep up that intensity to have enough in retirement. And how did you have a pension?

[Jade Warshaw]

How did you be gazelle intense, but just started saving last year for retirement?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Because I was the only income. Working two and three jobs just to make sure that our bills were paid and we had six kids and keeping food on the table.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you guys also. You paid off that. You paid off the house. So you paid off the house before you started investing.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yes, got it. And we. We've. Our house got torn down by a tornado, taken down by a tornado in 2019, and that. That actually helped us. Insurance allowed us to buy another house, and we ended up owing less on that house than we owed on the one that we were living in. So that helped us pay off that house quicker, you know, so. But we're in a position right now where we've got. Right now I've got about $20,000 in Roth IRAs and mutual funds, and we've got about $40,000 in savings.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what's the income. What's your household income now as it stands?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Well, yeah, right now my wife has started working since all of her kids are out. So now we're making 120,000 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

We've been putting between 15 and 1800 dollars a month into our retirement.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

And we. We have like $500 that we set out each month for the next vehicle that we may end up having to buy. We've got $200 a month that we set aside for car expenses. And then, you know, the rest is insurance and things like that. You know, I don't know if we're saving out too much money for the next vehicle or, you know, I could throw more into the retirement. I just don't know. Well, what. What the best options would be.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think at this point, your best option is to put as much into retirement as you can, simply because, I mean, you said it yourself. You've. You've only got 20,000 plus the 40,000 you have just in regular savings. And so, of course, you know, replacing vehicles is important, but I am worried about you having something there because you, as a pastor, you're not. You. You don't have Social Security taken out of your check, right?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Well, I. I've had Social Security taken out because I've been working a regular job for the last 30 years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

And I'm still working that regular job.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And do you know, I mean, I'm just trying to get all your numbers. Do you know what that will be if you wait and do late distribution on that?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I do not know what my Social Security will be. My pension is going to be right around $1,800 a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, well, that's helpful. Yeah. I mean, that would be my biggest thing. You do have the pension, which is nice. You do have a little bit of Social Security. Hopefully your wife will have that too. But yeah, my goal would be like, how much can I build up this $20,000. You said you were putting 1800amonth in right now.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So I mean, if I run that math as it is, if you start now or last year, like you said, do this till you're 72. I mean, that's $735,000 you'll have there. And I feel pretty good about that considering you'll have a paid for house. But obviously, if we can bump that up, you know, that's going to. Every bit that you can bump that up is going to give you a little bit more peace.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right, right, right. Yeah. I guess I'm just at a point where I feel like, you know, I've been working two or three jobs plus pastoring for the last 30 years. I'm like, okay, I'd like to spend some time with my wife.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, sure. But at the same time, this was. All.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

These were choices. I hate that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Everything was a choice, man. I totally get it, dude. I totally get it. And it's. It's. When you look, it's, it's, it's a. It's a tough pill to swallow. It. 58, is that what you said?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's a tough pill to swallow. But it's like, we chose six kids. We chose to pastor a church. We chose to pay the house and not put any money in retirement. We made all those choices, and then here we are. And really, at 58, like, I'm looking at a guy who has given his whole life to serving people and y' all have a math problem. It's just a. It's just a math problem. Like, are we gonna have enough money when we are 82 years old to be able to get groceries and pay the ever escalating energy bills, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

So, I mean, that, that's what I would do. I think the 1800 you're doing is great. And that's like I said it's gonna get you to 730. You know, between 7 and 7:50. If you can get to 2,000, that's even better. But John is exactly right. But John, I want to take a moment and talk about what he just said because I, I hear that a lot on this show. I've experienced it myself, which is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm just tired.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, yes, but it's going back to the thing about being Gazelle Intense. If you say to yourself, hey, I hear what the, the folks at Ramsey are saying, and I want to start working that plan. I want to do this baby steps thing. I just have to remind you guys, it's a system is a plan and a plan is a plan because you do things in a step by step order to achieve the desired result.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you don't do it in that order, it's no longer a plan. It's just some things. I heard that I might try some of them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So run it back. The difference between a guy who put 100 grand in 20 years ago right into retirement, that's just grown and grown and grown and grown and would be 58 and have $100,000 left on his mortgage right now. We can get Gazelle Intense or have a very simple focused goal to get this sucker paid off while we're still. And diamond are weighed that 15% right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, are there. Let me say this. It's not like Alan was out there, you know, running the streets or something.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's the thing. Yeah, totally.

[Jade Warshaw]

There are worse things you can do with your money versus you got a paid off house.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So that's a huge liability off, off your plate.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. The fact that he chose to pay off his house versus invest, like I said, there's a lot of, there's crazier things he could have done. But if you say I'm working the Ramsey plan, then it doesn't work for you like that. If you, if you work our plan, and I just want to call that out because that's keeps people very frustrated, is when you look at this and go, this one works for me, that one doesn't. This one works for me. That one doesn't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You say the whole plan doesn't work.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. And you will. And I'm just saying if you don't do the plan the way the plan's written, John, you're going to end up chasing your tail. Then you're going to be looking at us saying, but I was Gazelle Intense. And I'm like, no, you weren't. That wasn't Our plan. That was your plan.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think people forget about the. And again, we get this a lot. Like, people want to pull apart. Like, the nuance here of. Yeah, but you can put this money in this account and this over here and whatever a huge part of that plan is. And you write about this in your new book. It's psychological, it's emotional. And there's something about. Like when I've talked to Dave privately about being Gazelle intense. I want to spend this many years and just pay off my house. He said, you're going to be a shell of yourself in those many years. Do it the way we set it up so that when you turn 58, you're not looking around going, I've got nothing left. Again, I'm exhausted and I just want to hug my wife. Which, dude. I. I'm like that. I totally get that. But it's like, it's all. It's largely psychological and emotional. And the money. The money always works, right? It's less. Live on less than you make. But there's a huge. This is a perfect example of a guy who has dedicated his life taking care of people and paid off his house. He hasn't been out gambling his money. It's amazing. And I'm 58. I'm just burned.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm tired. I mean, Sam and I did that. I've been guilty of it. That's why I'm calling it out. I'm not telling you something that I haven't done myself. Alan and anybody else listening, I mean, I was the one who. It's clear. The baby steps clearly say pay minimum payments on. On everything and take the extra money and put it on the smallest debt. That's what it says. But I had a big idea and said, we don't need to do that. We just need to put all the money. Like, forget about the credit card minimum payments. Just put everything on the smallest debt. Then, yeah, you're gonna get frustrated because now you got bill collectors call on your phone. Now you. I had the big idea at one point that we need. Didn't need the thousand dollars saved.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. And then you're. You're stressed out because something comes up. And it's just. You gotta walk the plan the way the plan states. Millions of people have done this. And so there's a reason that it's called a proven plan, not just a plan. Because if you do it, the proof's in the pudding. It actually works for you. That's all I'm gonna say. Not to. Not to get onto Alan. We love Alan. But if you're listening and you're kind of hanging out around the water cooler on this, just do it the right way. It works.

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[Jade Warshaw]

All right, you may not know this, but singles Day is 1111 November 11th and we'll have our best selling books and products on sale for just $11. If you don't know now you know. It includes bestsellers like the Total Money Makeover, Baby Steps Millionaires Building a Non Anxious Life BY My guy, Dr. John DeLoney sitting right next to me. Get clear Career assessment by Ken Coleman, Questions for human decks and many more. Don't wait. These deals are only here on 1111 singles day. That's it. So go to ramseysolutions.com store or if you happen to be watching on YouTube or podcast, podcast. You can click the link in the description. Alrighty then, let's go to Thomas who's in New York City, New York, New York. What's up?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Hi. Yes, I'm trying to figure out whether or not to bless my sister with some money to help fix her car or see my siblings and my mom for Thanksgiving. They promised to come up for Thanksgiving, but this wrinkle has put an issue in it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Interesting. So what's going on with your sister? What's causing her to have problems with fixing her car and getting to see the family on Thanksgiving?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

I mean, she.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

She just doesn't have a ton of money and not really good with money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was gonna say, like, the fact that you're calling tells me this is not a one time event.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Definitely not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you cover the cost of this car, is it just gonna be one thing after that?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I. I mean, I'm. I want to say this is it, but, I mean, I want to take care of my family and my people.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's the nature of what's causing her to fall on hard times over and over again?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I think lack of discipline. She's kind of a flighty person. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So over the years, I mean, what's this looked like for you? I mean, give us some hard numbers. How much have you spent to bail her out?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Not a ton, but I think more than anything, I just really want to see them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you already answered your own question, brother. You said, I'm always going to take care of my family. You've already made that choice, dude. So if that's the choice you want to make, then make peace with your choice and make peace with the consequences of that choice, which is you. Are you married right now?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, then you and your wife got to figure out, like, what that looks like financially. And you. You have to decide if I'm gonna give money every time she calls. I'm not gonna get mad when she calls.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's your wife think about it, though?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

She's.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

She's good with it. I mean, I'm not mad. I. I just want to see. See them and up here for. For Thanksgiving.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, you've already made that choice, brother, so make peace with it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you have the money to help? What's your financial situation? I'm just wondering. Practically.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, we're. We're good. We're getting ready to buy a house. We're. Yeah, we're. We're doing well. Work the baby steps. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's the question beneath this question? I'm struggling with your question.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I don't want to. I want to see them more than I want to. To give her money to fix her car.

[Jade Warshaw]

So it's more about what you want, not what she needs.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Huh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Does she want to see you?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah. But they aren't going to come up if I don't give the money to them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because they can't or because they don't want to?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Because they can't. Yeah, because they can't. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And they didn't ask?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

No, she didn't ask me to help her fix her car. She Just asked me, hey, we can't pay for the rental car to get up there. So how old are you guys? I'm 40 and my wife is 36.

[Jade Warshaw]

Here's. I agree with what John said. I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. And I'm just thinking, okay, if my sister was like, hey, are you coming to Memphis? And I was like, no, you know, the cars in the shop. If she was like, oh, I'll pay for the car to get fixed, that might make me feel a little weird. I might be like, oh, no, we're good. Like, you know, Sam and I, we're. We're good. And if she keep. Kept insisting, I. I don't know that I would have. Would like that. But just because now it feels like, okay, well, I've got to give her this money back. I'm on the hook. You know, it does change relationships when you borrow and give. Give money to your family. Especially if it's not. If there's kind of this underlying of she's kind of flighty. She just doesn't really, you know, handle her. Her. Her business. That's my only thought. I. Like I said, what John said is true. If you have already made up in your mind, if my family's struggling, I step in, then that's your bag.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And the way. If this was my house, the way I would frame it is, hey, guys, I happen. My wife and I happen to be in a season of blessing right now, and we would love to get y' all a rental car to come up here. And they can say. They can say no. Yeah.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. That doesn't bother. I mean, none of it bothers me. I'm just trying to play it from both ways.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Totally, totally, totally, totally. And you know your sister better than Jade, and I will. And if you know that really what she's telling you is I don't want to come, then you're gonna have to sit in that for a little bit and not just throw money at a problem. Right?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah. Yeah, they definitely want to come. I just. I feel like the responsible one and want to. Want to take care of them.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is she married? Is she married?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah. Yeah, she's married.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so tell us about him. Because you told us about her. She's a little flighty. What about him? Because it takes two to tango. Why don't. Yeah, yeah. What's the problem?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, they. I think it's just a lack of discipline. I don't wanna. Okay, that's not my. That's not my home. So I Don't want to talk on them, but that's what it seems like to me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

They've had some hard times.

[Jade Warshaw]

And are you concerned that you're enabling them?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 100.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How many times have you bailed them out in the past?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

A couple.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nothing.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Nothing crazy. Just a couple hundred dollars here or there.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's my. I'm gonna be honest with you, Thomas. That's the only thing that bothers me about it. I. I 100% understood what you said earlier, because I've been in that situation. We were like, hey, it benefits them. And I realize that, but I'm really doing this because it's what I want. I want the whole family to be together. I understand that very well. I'm in a season of that right now. However, the enabling part did bother me a little bit, because this is a cycle. And. And at that point, it's one thing if it's like, no harm, no foul, but if you're enabling somebody, you are doing them harm. And so that's the only part that I. I mean, John can speak more to that. That's your bag.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

But, yeah, And I've given them, like, the total money makeover book. I've tried to help them with budget management.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. But they just haven't asked you for that.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, they haven't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And that's just tough, man, When. When our loved ones and our friends and family, when we literally have a tool in our toolkit that can help them and they're not asking for that tool.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's tough.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that's. That's always just hard. But I. And I will say this. You would have a very extraordinary wife. And I'm not saying wife. You'd have a very extraordinary spouse if they're okay with you indiscriminately bailing out your siblings, bad financial decisions over a long period of time. So I think it's worth you sitting down with your wife and saying, hey, I don't want this to get out of control and be a forever thing. What is our number? Do we have a line? What are you seeing in me? And maybe give her permission to say, you are so desperately trying to get this family together to fulfill a fantasy in your head, and we maybe need to exhale and let this thing go, and that's gonna be hard.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right?

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But, dude, if you got the money and your family is just literally a rental car away from coming to see you, they just fell on hard times. That's an easy decision. But I think the fact that you're calling says there's different layers to this thing, man. And that just makes it challenging.

[Jade Warshaw]

I agree with that. Hey. Yeah. What do you think you're gonna do? Based on. Just based off a snapshot of what you heard John and I do, what do you think you'll do?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, I think I'll.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's gonna do it.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah. I'm not giving the money to fix the car. And I'm gonna say, we'll see you at another time.

[Jade Warshaw]

There you go. I like that. Do it. Have a good holiday. Bring it up later when you're not in the heat of the moment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So, Jade, I want to say this. If it is. We're recording this show at the very beginning of November. Haven't already? And you're listening to this. If you're married, sit with your spouse and y' all talk through exactly what you want the holidays to look like, not what they have to be. What do you want them to look like. And then communicate that to your family. Like, do it the next day or two.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. Let everybody in your family know. Let all the temper tantrums happen, Let all the plans happen. Let all the exhale happen. But make those plans while you are still in control of them before you get dragged behind somebody else's cross vision of Thanksgiving and Christmas.

[Jade Warshaw]

I agree. I would take a step further too, and just think back on last year's holiday and kind of audit that and say, here's what went well and here's what didn't and use that as the template.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And this year will not be the year it finally all works out. It'll be just like last year.

[Jade Warshaw]

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[Jade Warshaw]

All right. Anthony is in Providence, Rhode Island. Hey, Anthony. How can we help out today?

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Hi.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

How you doing? Thanks for taking the call.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you bet.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So I'm currently torn right now. My wife and I. I'll start off with this. My wife and I, we both take home around, and I'm saying, like, net, we take around $80,000 a year, maybe with bonuses closer to 85.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right now, we are both currently $20,000 in debt between our car loans and credit card debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

The main concern I have now, I just started following the baby steps. Just got introduced to Dave Red Z by my friend. And everything's, you know, everything is great. The math is mathing. The only concern I have right now is that I've been working her. Between her and I, we've been working very, very, very hard, Long, long hours trying, trying to figure out babysitting. So it's been. It's been pretty tough trying to manage time because I know you can't get time back. That's the one thing I've always been told that's true.

[Jade Warshaw]

So the 85,000 net, that's with side hustles.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

The 85,000, that's with both of our primary incomes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. But you were saying, like, we're navigating. You made it seem like you were doing a lot of extra.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So at our. So we both have a job, a full time job. I'm working about 60 hours a week.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

And then she's working about maybe 30, 35 hours a week.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How old are your kids?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So I have one kid. He's one years old. He just turned one. And trying to find a babysitter is the main issue for us.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it. Okay.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

We're able to make it work.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Her grandma's always there for us and stuff.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's a blessing, dude. So how much margin do you have every month? Like, you've done the budget. And by the way, welcome to the cult, brother. Hope you, like, took a bath in the Kool Aid, man. All right, so you're here in our crazy little gang. Like, how much margin do you have? Y' all done a budget. What do you got left at the end of every month that you're throwing at this twenty thousand dollar debt.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So for me alone, just because we're not factoring both of our incomes together much, you're married.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Y' all made a human together. You can share a checking account.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So the main, the main issue has been trying to get her on board with the Dave Ramsey thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay? So hold everything. Hold everything, homie. Halt it all. You can't, you can't do this by yourself, man.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can't. Like you, you got a bigger issue than debt right now. And then it's, it's a spouse that, that doesn't share the same values as you.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You gotta get there.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what does she want to do? Yeah, what's her. Let's tell us her side.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, so she, she definitely believes in, you know, working very hard, trying to stack the money. But the, the issue is that she's.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

Not, not in her mind.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

She, she wants to save the money, but she's not actually putting it on pen and paper and then she's not having any, you know, margin at the end of every month.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But she shouldn't have margin. Y' all should have margin.

[Jade Warshaw]

So is the problem that she doesn't feel good about combining money? Like plan aside, like getting out of debt aside, just you guys going through, let's pretend that there was no debt to pay off. Just you guys being in a world where both your paychecks go into the same account and as you spend, you let it, you know, there's transparency and what's yours is mine, what's yours.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She won't do that.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

She would be willing to do it. I think I just have to kind of engrave the importance of it more often to her or just have that one good conversation about how serious I am about it and see if she like to see how she feels too.

[Jade Warshaw]

So go ahead, John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was gonna say it's not about engraving, dude. It's a, it's the opposite. Like, I want you to sit down with your wife tonight and say, we've got a one year old. We created a human together. And I don't feel like I am like that. We're, we're united in this marriage and I want to be all in with you. And the way I want to start being all in with you is I want to put all of our money in one account and we're going to have to talk about it. We're going to share stuff because I don't feel safe with our money situation right now.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right. Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you so instead of trying to engrave it in her, like, I gotta force this plan. I want you to do the opposite. I want you to take a knee in front of your wife and open your hands and say, I'm scared to death with how we handle money. And if it happened in your house in a negative way, I want you to say, I lived through this.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And I don't want our one year old growing up like this. And y' all make almost 90 grand. You're 85 grand and you owe 20,000 bucks. Y' all can have this done in like six to eight months.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right? Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then I don't care about, like, I'm gonna. You're gonna miss. Miss a couple of. Miss six months of a one year old's life so that you can have the rest of the life that y' all want to build.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You get what I'm saying?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But if you go at a spouse who's kind of on the fence or doesn't really care with a bunch of spreadsheets and a middle aged man who like, yells, get out of debt, they're just gonna blow you off. If you go to them and say, I'm scared to death that I'm gonna repeat the same mistakes my family made and I don't wanna do this, will you be all in with me? And if you are, I've got a plan that millions of people have used and it will work every time.

[Jade Warshaw]

And can I add something to that? I would also, if I were in your position, I would seek to understand what's giving her pause. Like, why is she feeling that trepidation against you?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Do you. Do you always have a scheme? Is this like scheme number 50? Like, you were selling essential oils last week and Avon the week before that and like, hot yoga the week before, or is she just, like, pretty much immature? Kind of does what she wants to do.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I want to say it's a little bit of immaturity.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

She's just not. Not as responsible for the money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you. Do you Venmo her for babysitters?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So thankfully our. Her grandmother's not charging us.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was being sarcastic. But, like, do y' all Venmo each other for, like, dude, you got Wendy's last week, so I got Arby's this week. Do y' all really?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. That ends today. That ends today.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. That's how roommates in college handle stuff.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right?

[Jade Warshaw]

But there's something be. The truth is, some of it might be immaturity, but there's Something behind that. I. There's something behind that totally. There's something of. She wants to protect herself or embarrassment, whatever. Yeah, embarrassment. It's a way for her to reward herself. There's something there that. It'll be hard for you to get to the bottom of changing that without understanding her perspective. Wrong or right, it's still her perspective. The more you can understand it, the more you guys can. Can get on the same page. So I. Okay, I think that. But the plan of, you know, working the baby steps is secondary to understanding why there's not a trust to combine finances. So that's thing number one. And then as you unravel that, you can start to do these things Dave.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Talks about and Rachel talk about there's a nerd and a free spirit in every relationship. And so tell her you'll take the role of the nerd. And what that means is you'll create the draft of the budget.

[Jade Warshaw]

It.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When y' all sit down on Sunday nights just to run through it, and she gets to change one thing at least. And y' all go, yeah, but you'll create the framework. You'll create the draft. But y' all gonna sit down and y' all are gonna go over this thing. But all the money is going to go into one account. We're never venmoing each other again because it's our money. This isn't yours, and this isn't mine. And when y' all have. When you get a big bonus, it's going to be y'. Alls. And when she gets a big bonus, it's going to be Yalls. And when you all have babysitting, when you all have food costs go up like crazy because of inflation, it's going to be Yalls problems that y' all handle together. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right. Absolutely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. This. This. This conversation could transform your marriage, or it'll reveal your marriage, right?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I just. I've been trying to figure out a way to, like, manage it without, I guess, poke of the bear, per se.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long have you been married?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So we actually got together two years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ago, but how long have you been married?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So I want to say about a year now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. I want you to know how long you've been married.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's a number you need to know, homie. You need to dial that one in.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm sorry, Anthony. That was funny to me.

[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

If.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If you ever have to refer to your wife as a bear. And I know you're playing, but, like, when you Say, like, I don't want to poke the. Be that, like, tension is the doorway. Conflict is connection. Like, you gotta go through that. If you keep working around it, if it's unsafe, you gotta go somewhere else. But if it's just immaturity, I want.

[Jade Warshaw]

To do what I want to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You've got to go right through that. Otherwise, you're going to just recreate the same trauma that's been in your family for generations.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good question. Next.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right? Call man.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Yeah.

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[Jade Warshaw]

All right, welcome back. We're here in the Fairway Credit Union studio taking calls about your life and your money. I love this show. I love that you guys call in. I love that you trust us with your situations. It means a lot. That's what Allison's doing from Omaha, Nebraska. Alison, you're on the line. How can we help today?

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Heck, yes, I am. Ms. Jade. Dr. DeLoney. Thank you guys so much. This is, like, weird and really exciting at the same time.

[Jade Warshaw]

So it's our honor. It's our honor.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's up?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Yeah.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

So my fiance and I are at a crossroads on how to handle finances. And there is a difference in economic status and a family business involved. But because that's not complicated enough, we decided to try for a child and instantly succeeded, which is great. But once that happened, his tone has now changed regarding combining finances and even getting married legally at all. Yes, a little. A little marching band of Red flags, but yeah, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So how long have you been together?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man, I'm laughing. I'm not laughing at you. I'm just like, no, pass the picture and I'm. I'll pour another one. Jeez. So is this guy just doing a 180 on you?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

It.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Yes.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

I would like to dance around it and pretend that it's anything but. But it is dressed up in a really nice package, but when it gets down to it, it's. It's a little hoodwinky.

[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

So.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, I'm sorry, Jake. We've been together four years. Four years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what's your, like, what's your question? How can we help? There's like 50 questions here. I got. But what's your question?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Is there.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Is there a way around structuring things that I can. We can make him and his family business and all that feel secure while also providing security for me as a stay at home mom?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, so, okay, I see. So tell us the economic unbalance there. Tell us what his family business is, what it's worth, what you think he's worth, and then tell us about you.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Yeah, to the best of my understanding, he. He was in finance before. He's coming in with about 4 million, and then the family business is about 15 to 20.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

However, they do leverage a lot of.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Debt, so at least to me, a lot of debt. It's like 1 to 5 million bucks a year they can take and go through. For myself, I have no debt. I've got a little under 600,000. Own a home in Nashville. Had a great business that I shut down in order to come and be a part of this. Making like 110, working only 10 hours a week.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you work in his business, his family's business.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

I help out probably more than I should and don't get paid, so. But I had my own business prior that I shut down in order to move and be a part of this.

[Jade Warshaw]

So did you say. Let me make sure I understood. Did you say that you help out and don't get paid at all, or you get paid for something, but then you go above and beyond that and don't get paid for the. Above and beyond?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Well, the.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

I don't have an official role in this business, and I've been given a credit card, which he thinks I should be happy with that. That a credit card should be security enough.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it. Okay. So there's problems here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There's problems everywhere. Let me ask you this question. The most perplexing thing to me.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is why aren't you running for the hills?

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Because I have the most beautiful baby and I. I know, but you. There's just a There' piece of me, and I'm so sorry to cut you off. There's a piece of me that I want. I just want to make sure that I've unturned every rock.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You. You have?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Oh, you have.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Behavior is a language. This man has said, I do not want you a part of my life unless is as it is as an unpaid employee who does whatever I want, whenever I want it, however I want.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Period.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

I'm so mad and so happy I called.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Behavior is a language. You are desperately trying to hold on to a picture that is right and is good. And you have sacrificed a whole bunch to get here. And as you have sacrificed, he has continued to pull back because he'll take everything you got, including your dignity and your respect and your work and your job and your time. He'll take all of it because you keep putting it on the table.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did he even offer a prenup?

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

In the discussion leading into this, it was always, I don't believe in prenups. I would never get married with a prenup. That it was all that kind of discussion.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He just changed it to, and I'll never get married either.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think that's the thing. I, I. If you had told me something like, he offered a prenup and I didn't want to sign it, that would have been weird if the. But I'll be honest. The fact that he didn't even say it let me know from the beginning he was planning all along not for this to go through. That's kind of the way I see it. Because a guy like this, he would be planning to protect his assets upon marriage. Right? I mean, you're right. There's a big difference. There's a family business. It would be totally fine for him to. To offer that and say, hey, with my family business, here's what I have to do. And you'd be like, sure, fine. But the fact that he didn't even say it or mention it like that makes me know, oh, he wasn't even intending to get to get married at any point.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Yeah, things got even more squirrely when there was, like, this push, because I do have this credit card, which, by the way, I spend less than I ever have before when I was supporting myself.

[Jade Warshaw]

The cred for you to use for yourself, not for the business. It's for you to just live on. Is that what it's for.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

It's what I pay for our child.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And, yeah, Jade, and she should be happy.

[Caller 1 (William)]

Exactly.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

But when he.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

When he was pushing for a budget, I said, perfect. I. I can live within a budget. I mean, I made my first million before I was 20 and lost it all, and don't want to do that again. But I was like, how much do you. We make and have never even been able to get an answer of what that number actually is.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Can I ask you a question beneath the question? Oh, I guess you're real smart and you're real accomplished. How much of you're trying to force this. This fantasy into reality, even against the wishes of the person that you created a human with? How much of this is. I don't have another word off top of my head right now, but is embarrassment. Sunk, Cost, Fallacy. I'm too smart and too accomplished. I've done too much to have fallen for this. So I gotta make this work. Otherwise, it's gonna be tough to look myself in the mirror.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Probably more than I want to acknowledge.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. I want to let you off the hook for that, man. We've all made mistakes with money. We've all made mistakes in love. We've all, like, gone all in on something, had it burn us. That's just. That's a human experience. What I don't want you to do is, like, you're an amazing woman and you've got a little kid now, and I don't want you to end up in ash over trying to make something happen. That. This.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Your.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your partner is being very clear. I do not want to be in a relationship with you unless it's 100 on my terms, which means it's not a relationship relationship. Is that fair?

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

That's fair.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm heartbroken for you.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

I. I appreciate the directness more than you know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I'm heartbroken for you. We'll be thinking about you in the next. Next right move you got to make. But this. These are hard conversations moving forward. And by the way, he. You're about to find out how. How much he makes when you file for custody.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're about to. All those documents are about to be laid out on the table, so. So there we go.

[Jade Warshaw]

So sorry.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Jade Warshaw]

All right, all right. So I just want to tell you guys right now, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to the show, for liking the show, for subscribing to it. You guys even go so far as to share it with your friends, which is even better. If you're doing that, please keep doing it. It helps us out so, so much, and we're grateful. It's a, a small gesture that makes a huge, huge impact. So again, if you've ever liked the show, you know, hit the little heart. If you've ever subscribed by smashing the button or if you've ever shared it by sending the link, sending the paper airplane, dropping it in a dm, we truly, truly, truly appreciate it. Thank you so much. Keep doing it. All right, let's go to Mac, who's in Chicago, Illinois, Chitone. What's up, Mac?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Hey, how you guys doing? I'm a big fan of the show. Thanks for having me on.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you bet. What's up?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

My question is around investing. I'm not sure what to do with my cash and my extra money. At the end of the month, I am investing fully in my Roth 401K. I'm doing 15% there and kind of maxing it out. Good. But I. I have a lot of extra cash left over just sitting in my savings account, and I feel like I should be investing. I don't know how to start. I don't know what to buy. And there's. There's definitely a little bit of fear behind it, too, because I. I don't want to make the wrong choices and I don't want to lose it. So I'm calling for some financial guidance.

[Jade Warshaw]

Cool. I like this question.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're awesome, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Appreciate the call.

[Jade Warshaw]

Way to go. So you're Already maxing out a Roth 401K. Now, are you just maxing it out or is it 15% of your income?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Well, it actually comes out to 14.5% of my income is maxing out the legal limit. So it's kind of yes to both.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good. And you're at the right stage of investing, Right. There's no debt. You have three to six months saved?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

That's correct. I've got about 25k emergency fund. I don't have any debt. I, I, it's so funny. I called the show about four years ago when I did have debt and now I'm totally debt free.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So good.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you got 25,000 emergency fund. How much did you set? You said there's extra sitting in your checking. That's just above and beyond you need to invest. How much is that?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yes, it's currently $110,000. And though it feels good, I know that probably shouldn't be sitting in cash. And so that was really the genesis for my call. And then on top of that, I'm able to save $2,500 a month and I don't want you doing that, if that's correct. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So what's your Before I tell you about the investing, I want to get a snapshot of your life. Tell me about your living situation. Are you renting? Do you own a house?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yes, I'm currently renting and though I would like to follow the baby steps and buy a house, I'm not no position to do so right now. I am financially in a position to do so. But the way my life currently is. I don't know where I want to live long term. I don't know where my next job is going to be within the company I'm in. I'm open to relocating to advance my career. So I really don't, I'm not in a position to buy a house right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's the timeframe on all that? Is it in the next two to three years probably? Well, I will say so I'm going to pair your living situation with your investing question. I will say you've got the 110,000. I think that's a great start for a down payment. But you know, like I know wherever you end up in the United States, real estate wise, it's going to cost you a pretty penny of a down payment to even get into the world. I'm looking over here at our, you know, on our Ramsey Trusted site where you can see the housing market trends And I'm just seeing that, that the national median median price for a home is 424 000. Right. So even with something like that, if you want to get that to 25 of your take home, you're likely putting down around 60. Right. Like you're putting down a lot if you, even if you, you know, make a hundred thousand a year. So that's a lot of money. So part of me says what I would do if I were in your shoes is I would keep investing the 15. But as far as this 2500 in margin goes and as far as 110, I might keep it in a high yield savings account and just keep plugging away until I know that when the time comes and I'm going to buy a house that's likely $400,000 that I can easily plop down a big enough down payment that that thing is not too big of a piece of my world. Does that make sense?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

It does make sense and that's what I'm currently doing. Like all the cash I have is in a high yield savings account. However I think.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is that the 110 times or you have something above that?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Okay, that's the 110. About your previous question on timeline, I thought you meant like when do you think I would relocate and that would be in two to three years. In terms of when I think I'm going to buy a house, I really don't know. That's, that's something I just haven't decided yet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I still like the idea of when the time comes you having like $250,000 or $200,000. I don't know but it sounds like the type of work you do might cause you to be in an area that real estate prices. Am I wrong?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

That's correct.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so for that reason, that's why I'm saying I like that plan. Cuz you're getting the both, the best of both worlds. What's your income by the way? Right now?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

About 170 to 180 grand a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, exactly. So you have a really great income. That would be my plan. Now let's say you stack that up to 250,000. You're like Jade, I really feel good with this. I'm going to keep that in a high yield. I'm still not ready to buy then yeah, I would look over and I'd probably. In your, your case, it'd be easy for you to max out on a Roth IRA every year. You know, you throw 7,000 in there and let that grow. Now, as far as what to invest in, because I think I heard you ask that question.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Correct.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Four types of mutual funds and by the way, hopefully your 401k is spread out like this too. But four different types of mutual funds is what I would suggest. We're looking for growth funds, we're looking for growth and income. We're looking for aggressive growth and we're looking for international. You might hear that stated as, you know, mega cap, large cap, small cap, and of course, you know, mixed markets or emerging markets. So that's kind of how we do it. It's just an, it's just a way to make sure that you're very diverse. Everything's spread around. Some of them are higher risk profile than others and it all balances each other out. And that's the way my money is invested and that's the way John's money is invested. So that's how I do it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you also asked a question at the beginning and your question was, I want to make sure I don't lose this money.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Part of investment is a risk, of course.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you can put all of that in there. And the Q4 Nvidia number comes in lower. And since the stock market's been propped up by 10 stocks the last year or maybe even longer, like, like it could be volatile.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so you, that might go down and the day it goes down, I'm still going to make my same contribution because I'm playing a long game with it, right?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

That's correct. And I'm definitely going to continue to do my 401k. That's something I don't think about. It's definitely a long term thing. Every check, you know, but in terms of, I like to think my current cash is where I'm concerned.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. I guess I want to double click on what Jade was saying. Part of investing. Or let me ask you this, what are you going to do with a big pile of money?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I don't know. I guess that's why I was calling.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, I'm just saying like in 10 years or in 15 years, you're going to buy a place to live.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

That's correct. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And so I, I just want to double click on what Jade said. I think it's so right. If you have a quarter million dollars in a high yield savings account, number one, some bros somewhere are going to come after you. You, who cares? Because here's what you'll have that they don't. $250,000 to do whatever you want whenever you want.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And if you want to go put 25% down on a million dollar house, you can just write a check. You know who else can be in this country? Not very many people. And if you want to pay, put 50% down on a $500,000 house. Great. Like you'll be able to just chip away at it and chip away at it. I love the idea of you having cash for like, like real estate as part of your investment portfolio over time. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yes, I understand. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What I don't want you to do, you guys, you're going to get itchy. Go ahead. Is to get into like speculative stuff and crypto and. Oh, maybe if I like, that's where I think you're going to get yourself in trouble.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

Yeah.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

And that's definitely something I don't plan on participating in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I think it's like I even have an initial fear of investing in the stock market with funds and I know I probably should be on top of my 401k.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just remember, it's the same. It's the same that's in your 401k. So if you're looking, if you log in and check out your 401k and you feel good about it, you feel good about the growth, you feel good about what you've seen, that it's the same, it's the same stocks. And if you're still unsure, you can check out a SmartVestor Pro. It's to help you learn a little bit more. And we'll make sure you get that information from Christian when he picks up.

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[Jade Warshaw]

Alrighty, Hannah. In West Virginia. Virginia. Virginia's for lovers. Lovers. That's the saying. What's going on?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a big fan. I appreciate it.

[Jade Warshaw]

We're happy to have you on.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

So thank you. So my question is, how do I eliminate or consolidate my debt? As a single mom, my monthly expenses are higher than my take home pay.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Ooh.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, you know that I can tell you all of the. The tools all day, but that's a math problem right there. Hannah.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Yes, I. I know. I moved up to West Virginia from Mississippi in the hopes that I would be making a little bit more money in the career path that I'm in. And I don't know that I did the math the correct way before I moved up here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's your career?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

I am in property management for student housing.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's your income?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

I make $77,500 a year before taxes and insurance and everything before taxes.

[Jade Warshaw]

So after. I mean, what are you, 4,600?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

I. I bring home about 2,300 every two weeks. So, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And then what does it cost to make your life? Is it your. Is it your rent? That's too high. What's going on?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

It is rent. It is daycare. Car note. I had zero credit card debt moving up here, but since I have moved here, I have accrued about six grand in credit card debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's just closing the gap on your budget, right? I don't. I don't think you're going out living la vida loca.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

I am not.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell me, tell me what you pay for daycare every month. Month.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

It is fourteen hundred dollars a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, mama. Tell me what you pay in rent every month.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

15, 90.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, that's not that bad. That could be worse. Is that a two bedroom or a one?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

It's two bedrooms.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. How. How young is the child? I mean, their daycare age, but how young?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

My son is 18 months old.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think you got to get a one bedroom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

Man.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is there a chance you can move? I. I've spent my career working with these adjacent campus villages at universities. Is there a chance you could get into a campus apartment for a while?

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

I.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Where I work is not directly affiliated with the school.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know. But with the. With the adjacent campus community. Would they Give you a place.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

I, I've never heard of that.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I would ask, to be honest with you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I had never heard of it either until I asked. And then because I was in charge, I created it for myself. But my wife and I and our infant, I mean our two year old toddler moved into a campus living environment for a year.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Okay.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

It changed our whole life definitely.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it wasn't the best thing in the world and it was not how I drew it up, but it ended up. Dude, my 2 year old son had like 175 college students. They're just fawning over them all the time. It was a dream come true for him.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Yes.

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

That's.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

That's awesome. I. I will definitely look into that. Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know why? Because it's going to, quote unquote, help you with the student experience and help you with marketing, blah, blah, blah. You know, all the right words you got to say.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Agreed. Yes, that is correct. Which they. The university technically considers any off campus housing to be in, you know, like direct competition. I know with the university and that we're actually not even allowed to mark it on campus. But anyway.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, if you could live in. You live on your property. I do not know that's what I'm talking about. Is there a possibility you can move on to the property?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Oh, yes. I would have to reach out to my supervisor and all the things just to see if we had like a diff. Like a concession.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course. Reach out today.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Get. Yes, we'll do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, retail today.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

We'll do.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love that idea.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

I know that there's. It's a great idea. Yes. I know that they. There's like a list, like a company wide list for however much they can allot per property. And all of my current staff lives on site.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I fire somebody.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm just kidding.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

But maybe I did two weeks ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, there you go. You got to find a place to live. But, but there's a bigger issue here and that is do you need to reconsider going back to Mississippi?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

I relocated up here because I was not going to make even this much money doing what I. Doing what I do in Mississippi.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is it time to find a new career path?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

I've been doing this for four years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, but you can't afford to live.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you were in another situation and you told me that you made. Made $78,000 a year, I. I'd be like, okay, great. That's a fine. That's a. There's. That's a fine income. You didn't call me telling me that you're making 40 or even 52. I think the pri. The problem is twofold. Number one, you're in a season of higher expense whenever you're in a daycare season. I mean, John, you know, I know daycare is expensive and it's not forever, but it is some the most expensive four to five years of your life. So that's thing number one. Thing number two is this car. Tell me about your car payment.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

My car note is $600 a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's the bit. Yeah. How, how different would your life be if you had that $600 back?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

It would be much better.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. You wouldn't be putting it on a credit card every month, right?

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

Yes.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

I wouldn't have to put daycare on a credit card every month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. So tell me, tell me this situation. What do you owe on your car?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Currently I owe 24,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Uhhuh. And what is it worth? Worth?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Last time I looked, I believe it was worth about 13,000.

[Caller 1 (William)]

Oh boy.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you're positive that's private sale?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

That it's been a minute since I've looked, so don't quote me on that. It could be completely different, but round about 13,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do a little homework on that tonight. It sounds like you might have rolled some negative equity in there at some point, but just do a little homework. What other debt? Is there anything else besides the car and the credit card?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

No, I. I don't have any other debt other than the car loan and my credit card debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I go back to what I said before. Do you know anybody where you are or are you just brand new? No friends, no community yet?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

No community yet. I'm working on it. I'm trying to get involved with a church in the area. I packed myself and my son up and we just. This was my better opportunity where I took it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Where is this child's father?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Not has never been involved. I told him I was, you know, pregnant. He told me to get an abortion and I haven't heard from him since.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, but he still has a financial responsibility for this kid.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

He does, yes. And I am working on that. But that would help you significantly as well. Yes, it would.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So if you were to look up in 90 days and you're getting at least some money from deadbeat and you're living on campus at a free or reduced rate or not on campus, but on your property and you go trade this car in and you go to a local credit union and take out A five thousand dollar loan because you found some way to sell it and you're going to take, you're going to owe 5,000 bucks to a credit union and you got to cheat. Just crummy car. Your whole life is different then, right?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Those are, I mean, those are your, your three homeworks. Number one is check out the campus thing. If the campus thing doesn't work, then you at least have to go down to a one bedroom to save some money. You're gonna save, you know, 300 bucks by going down to a one bedroom thing. Number two, like John said. Yeah. We need to look into this car, do some due diligence on that. That. Yeah. See if you can get a loan for the difference. And you're buying like a $3,000 beater, which is, you know, that's what you're getting the loan for to cover the difference plus a little bit to get a car. Yeah, that's, that's what this is looking like. And then number three is like John said, tracking down deadbeat dad and getting what you can get from him because you need the money. I listen, I hear you. I know just bringing up the man's existence is, is hurting you on the inside because you're probably like, I don't want anything to do with him and I don't want to need his money. But you, you could use it, right?

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

That is exactly how I am feeling. Yes. And I always said that no amount of money, you know, was worth, you know, putting my kid in the hands of someone that I don't trust.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you're not going to put him in his hands. But on behalf of the dads who the greatest thing in our life is that you privilege of taking care of our kids. This guy's got a responsibility and there's. Hopefully the courts will step up and do the right thing and he needs to participate.

[Jade Warshaw]

The only other thing you can do is try to figure out something you can do at night once the baby is home that you can do from home. That's online. Maybe you edit papers or you do, you know, copy editing or something that you can do on your own time to make a money.

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[Jade Warshaw]

All right, you guys, the all new Every dollar. It's here. And. And it's now way more than just our world class budgeting app. As a matter of fact, there are tons of new and advanced features that are there to help you make faster progress with your money. As a matter of fact, the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So if you want to get into it, if you want to get involved, you can start every dollar today for free. All you have to do is get it in the app store or in Google Play. All right? Right. Mark is in Detroit, Michigan. Mark, what's up?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Hey.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

How you doing, guys?

[Jade Warshaw]

Doing great. How can we help?

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

So I kind of have a weird question for you. So quick history. I was married 17 years. I've been divorced about a year and a half. And my ex wife and I, we. We followed the Dave Ramsey financial model. Okay. We did it right. Like, I feel like our story is unique in a divorce in that we didn't walk away, like, ruined financially.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

Well, yeah, but I feel very, I guess, disillusioned with it, I guess a little bit in that I feel like we put our entire thought and everything into making sure we did everything right financially.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

And we didn't fix anything else. And I feel like now we're sitting here 17 years later, a couple of kids in high school, lives destroyed, and I don't know what to do. It's like I have a stack of money. I have retirement.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So does she.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

Our kids are fine. They're gonna go to college no matter what happens.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you feel like you used this in place of dealing with your real issues? Is that what you're saying? You kind of both just focused on this instead of.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

Yeah, I think it was like all I cared about was the money side of it. And I was so focused on making sure that the balance sheet was right that I. We. I lost everything else. And I'm in a spot now where I really don't know what I want to do. I mean, it's like work doesn't really feel like it has a lot of meaning anymore, even though I do it. And I go every day.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How soon is your divorce over, brother?

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

A year and a half ago.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Exhale, man. You still haven't even started the grieving process yet. Like, you're still mad.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

Yeah, well, I. I feel like I failed. Like, I feel like. Like neither one of us did anything. Like, I feel like it wasn't like some.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Some.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

Neither one of us, like, did some terrible thing or anything else that. It was just. We just got to a point where it was like, after 17 years, we just didn't even. Didn't even know who was who, and. You know what I mean, we just. We just both walked away. And I don't know how to recover from that. I don't know what to do next. But my kid. Like, I have a condo now. My kids are like, well, why don't we get a house? Why don't we build a house? I could build any house we want, but I. I don't want. I already had that. I don't want it again. You know what I mean? I'm just really struggling with what now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm gonna tell you. I'm just gonna be honest with you. You're not gonna like my answer, dude, because you've built a really powerful, like, wall between you and. And feeling something, and it's probably been there for a while, and you're going to keep spinning your wheels until you open the door and let yourself feel this. And that feeling is probably going to be overwhelming because it's been there since you were a kid, because somebody said if you go get good grades and make a bunch of money, then you're going to. You're going to feel still worth being loved. And then you got married to somebody who you loved and cared about, and y' all created an amazing family, but you. You were still trying to prove yourself to the guy in the mirror for all these years, man. And until you acknowledge I'm worth being loved and I'm worth more than the spreadsheet and the balance sheet, until you grieve that, man, it's good. You're going to continue to chase it.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

Yeah, I just. I just don't know. Like, all, like, all I care about is my kids. And, like. Like, I. I hate. I only get to be a. A dad half the time. I mean, there's nothing I wouldn't do or give them or. Or give their mom or any. Like, there's. There's nothing. You know what I mean? I. I just want them to be good, and I hate that, you know, Hey, I get my week, and then all of a sudden, there's a week where I get. I. I sit in My living room. And I. I can't go say goodnight to my kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's called grief.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

I don't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I wouldn't. I wouldn't wish. I wouldn't wish what you're experiencing. On my word. Well, why like, circle me back? Do. Do you and your ex. Are you all on good terms?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, we.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

We co parent great. To be honest, we get along better after the divorce than we did for the five years leading up to it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, then why not go sit in a coffee shop and say, what have we done? Why not go sit in a coffee shop and say, hey, look, we chose, especially the last five years, a miserable marriage. What if we chose something different because we both can and we chose to walk away? There's no rule in the books that say two people who built a pretty amazing life but got so disconnected emotionally and relationally and spiritually that we just thought the next right move was just. We bought into the. One of the most insidious cultural lies, which is relationships just quote unquote, run their course. It's bull crap. It's a lie. It's not true. At point people say, I quit. And when you quit things, fine, but you can also start things.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Why.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why wouldn't you do that?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I. I don't know.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

I think it's a lot of years of. Of hurt, a lot of years of.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don'T care things that. That's. You. You can't. You cannot edit that story at all. There's a period after the end of that sentence. Why not today write a new one.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can I ask a question, Mark? I mean, what was. Was there a moment? Like, was there infidelity? Was there one of those bombs dropped? It was just. We just drifted apart.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

It was just after a couple years of. Of sleeping in different rooms and just basically just neither being they just basically not caring about each other at all in either way and just getting to a point where it was just like, you know what? Neither one of us can live like this, okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you have to go back all the way up. You're too smart with the spreadsheet to not get what I'm trying to say here. At some point you chose to stop caring. And that means you can choose to start caring. It's a choice. It is not a feeling. I don't care how much Hollywood says it is. I just spent an entire weekend with 1400 people, 600 plus couples up here in Nashville leading a marriage retreat where we taught people how to build rebuild your marriage from the floor up. Now I'm not trying to push you into getting remarried to her. What I want to tell you is the next choice you make is a choice. The next thing you don't do is a choice to not do something. And I'm trying to empower you is what I'm trying to do. But you know and I know that 18 months later, sitting on the couch and just with your face in your hands wanting to see your kids isn't the next right step.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Going to see a therapist and saying, I've not liked the guy I see in the mirror since I was second grade. I want to deal with this. Is maybe calling your ex and saying, what have I done? Is maybe calling and saying, I miss the kids. Can I come by and see him in the evening? Because we're good co parents, maybe that I don't know what the next right win is.

[Jade Warshaw]

But.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But you have to regain your autonomy here amidst this black hole of grief. And at some point, dude, you have to feel it or your body will shut you down. And it feels like that's what it's doing to you right now. It's starting to spiral and spiral and spiral.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

There doesn't seem to be a lot of light at the end of the tunnel.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. And there can't be any light when every day you go home and sit on the couch in a dark room. You. And what I'm trying. Here's what I'm trying to give you. I'm trying to give you your power back. That. Yes. Like the feelings you have are real. And you're now a partner in this misery, which means I'm trying to give you a good side to this. That means you can be a partner in walking towards a light somewhere. Do you hear what I'm saying?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yes, sir.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you believe you're worth even taking that step? Are you just sitting at home thinking, I failed my kids, I failed my wife, I failed everything I feel myself?

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

Well, there's a lot of that. I'm not going to lie to you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, then here's the path.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

Because I'm a guy that your job is. Is to make it work.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller 5 (Mark)]

No matter what.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then. Good. Then we're going to make this one work. You're going to write yourself a letter tonight. Two years ago, you. You're going to write that guy a letter who's sitting at the divorce table, and you're going to write a letter to yourself in five years about who the guy you're going to become because of the choice you started making today. Go make it happen, brother.

[Jade Warshaw]

Foreign.

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[Jade Warshaw]

Welcome back to the show in the Fairwinds credit union studio. I'm here hosting with Dr. John DeLoney. I'm Jade Warshaw. Thanks for listening to the Ramsey show. We've got Dave who's in Los Angeles, California. Hey, Dave, how can we help?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Thank you so much. I just found you guys this weekend for the first time. So forgive me if what I'm asking is something you've covered through the years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're just glad you're with us, man. We're glad you're with us.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I'm excited.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, dude. No apology, no apologies needed, man. Everybody's showing up new and pulling in at the same at their own pace. So I'm glad you're here.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Excellent. Excellent. I'm a single father and I went through a major family crisis three years ago. The type of family crisis that is, you know, life or death. As a result, to deal with the expenses of that, I went into $140,000 of credit card debt. And I have no regrets. I would do that again every day because at the end of the day, the crisis was resolved and that money was well spent. However, the credit card debt is crazy. I mean, some cards are $22,000, others are $32,000, and the interest on that ranges between 25% to about 32%. So it's killing me. Obviously, I'm treading water. No disposable income, no backup money. However, if I had another crisis, the type of real crisis, I would drown because it's, you know, just enough to do just every bare minimum for the cards and just enough to put gas in the car and just enough for decent meals, but nothing crazy. No vacations, etc.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you mean make?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Every month I make a decent income. I'm in California, so, you know, it may seem like a lot here, but it not when you have a mortgage and all of the things and luckily.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hit me with the number.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Oh, I'll give you a yearly because monthly it's about 4200. No, sorry, that's per paycheck.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

So.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, 84.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

We're looking at 80.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

84.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Math was never my strength.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's all right. We're walking with you. So you've got the 8,400 and like you said, you are in California, so I got to assume that your real estate is higher. You, you own a house?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I do. And I fortunately have a 30 year fixed rate with really good interest. Like really good. Before the pandemic, what do you pay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Every month for that mortgage?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Like, okay, so one paycheck goes to the mortgage. That's one of the paychecks and the other paycheck goes for the bills.

[Jade Warshaw]

So half of your, Your mortgage is 50% of the problem is 50% of your take home pay. Is that what you're saying?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

So yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Your house is not a blessing, brother. You got to change your mindset on. It's not. It's killing you.

[Jade Warshaw]

The mortgage is a bigger problem than the credit card debt. Almost.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's killing you. I hate to tell you that. We're telling you we love you, dude.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

There's a little, there's a little twist. The mortgage normally won't be that high coming in March. When I went through the crisis, I couldn't pay my property taxes and I couldn't pay my, I couldn't pay my property taxes.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you're doubling up right now, Is that what's happening?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, my mortgage company basically did an escrow and, and to pay for the back taxes, my mortgage went up, but it's going to come down about fifteen hundred dollars in March. So I'll have a little breathing. I'll have, you know, fifteen hundred dollars of breathing space.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

We could have been in some of those credit cards, but you know, not, not as much as I need because some of the interest is obviously going to gobble.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's the thing, here's what you're gonna have to do. You're gonna have to either, and this is me just being a direct because I care about you, okay? Either.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Man, you are a smart guy. You make a good salary and your, your heart is bigger than the moon, dude. You're an amazing guy and you're gonna have to figure this out. Or if you, if you get with this crazy crew over here in Nashville, Tennessee, and we've got millions of people who've gone through this and it's worked, you're gonna have to say I'm to surrender. All of the old ideas I had about things like a good mortgage rate is always A blessing or the interest rate here and that. But we have a process and I promise you it will work if you'll follow it. But you got to go all in. Okay. And no other, no other little influen person can get away with what we say, which is it works 100% of the time if you'll run the plan. Okay. Jade's going to walk you through it. But you, you just got to be all in.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old your kid?

[Caller 3 (Allison, Female Callers)]

I.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

By the way, I have two things that were offered to me which is the purpose of my call. So I just want to make sure we get to those. But my child is five years old.

[Jade Warshaw]

Five. Okay, good to know. Okay. So I was just trying to attack the first question that you had, which was seemed, seemed like the credit card debt was an issue. I wanted to know what your time was like and what your ability is to earn more money. Knowing the age of your kid helps with that. You know, if you have a toddler at home, it's a lot different than if you have a 14 year old at home. But get to your. What were the other two parts of your question that you had?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

The reason for my call is because I got two offers to deal with this and not knowing what you've said previously on this topic. I am because I'm really tempted to go with either of these two because I don't have any more income because I'm spending as a single dad the but every minute of my life with my baby. I mean she's the world. And, and I'm all get into your.

[Jade Warshaw]

Question because we don't want to hit the clock on.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Got it. Okay. One agency hit me up and said, look, we will help you, we will negotiate all.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. Don't just total scam, total scam. Promise.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

It's not that concerned consolidation, but they said they would, you know, if I go, you know, don't pay them for.

[Jade Warshaw]

60 days, all that's going to do. Here, ask yourself two questions. If you don't pay them, what's going to happen? Your credit's going to be destroyed. And during that time, all they're doing is setting you up for negotiations. If you really wanted to go that route, couldn't you do that yourself? If you wanted to say, you know what, I'm just not going to pay them, I'm going to default everything and then I'm going to settle everything. Couldn't you do that yourself if you wanted to? Yeah, sure, sure. You don't need anybody to do that for you.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Okay. Okay, good.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But don't do that.

[Jade Warshaw]

You don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. I was trying to set you up for a world where you can say, okay, right now I'm making minimums. There's not much breathing room. What can I do to get more money in the door? And that would be my biggest question is, what can I do to get more money in the door? You're right. It's going to be very tight for you until March or April. And there's part of you that, that if you want to, you know, take that horse to the Old Town Road, that's fine. Cuz once you do, you're going to be well within, not well within, but you're going to be way closer to being able to keep this house about 600 bucks off. I don't think I'm going to make you sell the house over that just yet. But in the meantime, you've got to be doing everything under the sun to get money. We can't just do nothing for the next four months. You've really got to make sure that you are, are exhausting every single effort to get more money in. And what I would do if I were in your shoes is I'd say, okay, what do I need? What, what would make me feel like I'm making a dent in this? Is it $2,000 a month to put at the smallest credit card? Is it at fifteen hundred dollars a month? And I would work backwards from there. Can you take your kid with you to do some doordash and to do some Uber eats? I think you can. I've seen it. And to, to do some grocery runs for folks, folks, that's what you've got to do because that's the only way you're paying this off. And I can tell you right now, there's not going to be anything comfortable about it. There's not going to be anything easy about it. There's not going to be anything about this that makes you look forward to it, except knowing that at one point you're finally going to pay it off and it's going to be behind you for good. That's it.

[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

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[Jade Warshaw]

All right, all right. Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything, everything with your money, but you're just not getting anywhere? You ever feel like you're taking two steps forward, one step back? Do you ever feel like Alan, who called in a couple hours back and said, I'm Gazelle intense, but still not where you want to be with your money, man, I know all about that. Maybe you've made the changes, maybe you've had a few wins, but something still feels off. It's not because you failed. It's because money is not just about math. And John, I've been saying that over and over thought across the airwaves that money is not just about math. Money is so completely emotional. I mean, you've probably heard us say it for years here that money touches every area of your life, right? It touches your relationships with your spouse, your relationship with your kids. It touches your spirituality, it touches your.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Career, your relationship with yourself, the shame, the embarrassment, the everything.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And so when you listen to a show like this, this, and you have a situation like earlier when the guy called in and he said his wife didn't want to combine the money, Remember? And we are trying to get to the bottom of that. Guaranteed is something emotional that happened. Whether something she observed as a kid in her parents household, something that happened with a boyfriend, there's always something behind it. So when we say, hey, combine your finances, it's never as easy as just 1, 2, 3, right? When we tell somebody, hey, you're gonna have to sell that car, and they say, well, wait a minute, that was my gift to myself when I finally finished med school. And that was huge accomplishment. That. That's attached to a feeling of achievement for me. It's not always easy, right? Or always.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't think we talk about right now. Everybody knows, like, we were just Talking off air how unfathomably expensive things are. It's wild.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And we're getting more calls than ever about people making 70 grand, 80 grand, 100 grand that are just duct taping things together right now. Nobody talks about, about. And I'm so glad that you do now. Nobody talks about that. Sitting at the table, feeling with your face in your hands like you have failed your kids, like you have failed your spouse. Like, you're just going to be just like everybody else in your family. That sense of, like, it's easy, like, I quote, unquote, know what to do next. Right. Spend less and go make more. But if it was that simple, everybody be doing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Everybody would be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There is a wheelbarrow full of, like, emotions in there. And nobody talks about that moment when the lights are dim in your kitchen by yourself with your hands in your face, going, I don't know how that's gonna work. And, man, that's why I'm glad you put that down, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. John's talking about my new book that just came out. It's called what no One Tells You About Money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So Good.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it is. It's the real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there, which is me. I've been there. I've been in your situation. Just what John was talking about, that moment where you look up and you go, go, my life is not what I thought it was going to be. And I thought I would be XYZ by now. I thought I should have this by now. I thought I would have that by now. And you do. There's a lot of things that hit us. You feel frustrated and you feel scared and you feel angry and you have shame and guilt. All of these things. I talk about it all in the book. And it's not just me pontificating, it's me giving you practical steps on how to get out. John, that's what we do here. We tell you, we tell you the problem, but then we tell you, you step by step, how to give out, get out. And it's the same thing with this. If you walk through the frameworks in this book, you are going to go, oh, oh, Jade, now I know what it is. I just needed you to give me words for it. I didn't know what it was. And now I see it now. I can see how that's been holding me back. Yes, I will do it. So please, guys, this is the book. It's on pre order now. It's 24.99. And if you order it now, you'll get a hundred dollars in free bonus items. You'll get the audiobook. You'll get early access to the ebook. Ebook, you'll also get. I do a, a video where I go through and do a financial checkup with you. Like one on one. We'll, we'll walk through your numbers and it's really helpful. And guys, I'm going to do a book club of this book. It's going to be a three week book club where we're going to really unpack this thing together. So if you've just felt like you needed something, you need somebody to grab your hand, I'm the one grabbing your hand. I'm reaching out. Grab it and I'm helping you. Come on, let's do this together. This is your year, man. Pre order [e-mail] store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast. Of course you already know. Click the link in the description to get your copy. Guys, please don't wait on this. I know we sell you a lot of books, but this one is completely different. I'm telling you, man, you can look at me, you can already tell it's going to be different. All right? Keaton is in Denver, Colorado. Keaton, how can we help, man?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call.

[Jade Warshaw]

You bet.

[Caller 1 (William)]

How can we help?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So my question is, how do I start a business as the sole provider to my family?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You don't sleep very much for the first couple of years.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, I kind of thought the same. I just want to know.

[Caller 4 (Female Callers)]

I'm kind of a newer listener to.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

The show and luckily I don't have any debt. And I know that's what you guys talk about a lot, which is awesome. Awesome. And I'm lucky enough where somehow without the Ramsey plan, I got there, but I'm here.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, you have common sense. You know how to do elementary school math. Congratulations, man. That's awesome, dude.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Well, I'm here and I just want to know, like, what would the baby steps for me look like? The different set of baby steps for starting a business and potentially walking away from my current career?

[Caller 1 (William)]

Because I, I worked really hard to.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Get to the position where I'm at. And I'm making over six figures now, which is awes.

[Jade Warshaw]

What six figures? Six figures can be a lot. It can be 1001000 or it can be 900 1000. So how many, how many figures? Tell me the real figures.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Okay, the real figures is I'm making just over 100 grand a year. I'm in sales. So half of that is commission, half.

[Caller 1 (William)]

Of it is salary.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What business do you want to go start?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So that's another part is the business I would want to start. I'm a sales rep for a manufacturing company and I would essentially want to go into dual direct competition. And the issue with that is I, I feel like I can't start it unless I walk away from my current position.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think that's fair. I think that's right and that that's an integrous way to do that.

[Jade Warshaw]

So if you were to walk away from the job, what could you do in the meantime as a full time job that makes money while you start building up your book of business doing the, the business you want to do?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Well, I could, I mean I've done a lot of things in the past. I was a bartender for a while. I worked. I've done a bunch of different jobs so I'm sure I could figure something out. But in my industry without going into competition, I could probably make about 25 to $30 an hour while I'm building this business.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, well that's, just get a. Here's the deal. I want you to focus on the math problem.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Problem. You, you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you married?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I am, yeah. And we have two kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. So you and your spouse are going to sit down and just go up. Here's, here's how much money we need to survive for 24 months.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And then I'm going to, I'm going to commit to making this much. Or if she wants to be a part of this dream too, then I mean she's got to be a part of the dream but like contribute. Like then I'm going to take on, she's going to take on a second job or she's going to stop doing xy. Like here's how much it cost to run this house. Here's what we can cut for 24 months. Months. Here's my investment in this thing and here's how we're going to know dollar amount. Is this being successful or not?

[Jade Warshaw]

Now you have no debt, but do you have any money saved?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I do. And I guess, I guess the other wrench to throw is I'm renting right now. We don't own a home, but I'm debt free. Besides not owning a home, that's not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

A rent, it's fine.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So I rent but I have about 70 grand in savings right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's the homework. Number one is make a List of what can I do in the meantime to bring in money. Whether it's like you said in your field, you can, you know, make however many dollars an hour, but you need customers first, right? So that's not like you can start that necessarily tomorrow. So we need to make a list of what we're going to do in the meantime until your business gets off the ground. And we need to figure out exactly what that number is. What does it take to make our household run? Is it $5,000 a month that we need? Need $6,250 a month that we need and whatever that number is now we work backwards in order to accomplish it using that list of skills and jobs that we said we were going to get. So that's what I would do. And then just on the more practical side, you know, this is, I don't say this in the way that I don't believe in you because I actually, I actually really do. I think you'll do this and you'll kill it, but maybe possibly for your wife and just for fairness, set boundaries around this and say, here's like create a plan and say, here's what the plan is. Here's how long I think it's going to take to actually get this thing off the ground. Here's how long I'm willing to be in this amount of income bracket. Here's where. And here's also the point that we turn it off. If for some reason it's not making money, right, go ahead and put those boundaries around it because that's going to a light a fire for you to go quickly and really make stuff happen. And number two, it's going to make your wife go, okay, I can get behind this. There's a starting point, there's a succession point and there's a turn off button. If it doesn't work out.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by John Jade Warshaw.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's get into that Ramsey show question of the day, shall we?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We shall.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right. You already know it. The Ramsey show question of the day is Brought to you by Y Refi. When you when your private student loans are in default, it's easy to feel ashamed or stuck. But don't worry. Why? Refi will not judge you. They'll help you rebuild, refinance and regain control. So just visit y refi.com Ramsey remember that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey and it's not available on all states. States.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This question comes from Paige in Missouri. Paige writes, my husband and I are struggling to balance everything. Right now we are $25,000 in debt which will be paid off next year. Combined we earn around a hundred thousand dollars a year. And between rent, home expenses and our one year old, it feels like we can never get ahead. I've thought about getting a second part time job, but I feel guilty leaving my baby longer than I do now. Man, that keeps coming up over and over and over, man. Should we put everything on hold including parenting time, church obligations and personal commitments to focus on paying off debt faster? Or is there a better way to balance faith, family and finances without burning out?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, you know what, I really, I, I love this question, John, because it's so real.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You just wrote a book about this question.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it's such a real thing. And it's a question of priorities. And I think it's a very difficult question because, because everything wants to be the priority, right? Everything does. And I, I've said this before, I think with you, you know, it's very easy to say I want to prioritize getting out of debt. And then we, we also say, well, I also want to prioritize being a parent. And then she's got some, another laundry list. Well, what about my faith? What about my family? What about my church? Da da da da. All right, let's pretend that you have said the number one thing for me to do do is I want to get out of debt. That's the number one thing that's top priority. It's going to butt up against other things that are saying, but no, I want to be the top priority. So you're, you're face feeling that now you're feeling saying well wait a minute, I have a one year old. Is it a one year old? I have a one year old. What about them? If I pay off this debt, I'm not prioritizing them. But that's simply not true. There's different ways to show priority. Okay, you could say, well, I'm not prioritizing my baby if I'm not spending time with them. But that's not true. There's ways to prioritize your family, like providing a roof over their head, like taking care of them, making sure there's food on the table, making sure you can be there for them in the long run. Making sure that you don't make your retirement their burden. Right. Let's stop saying that. The only way that we make our family a priority is to be there every waking moment of the day. That's just not true. And that's something that we have to, like, square up with in the mirror if we ever want to get this thing done. Done. You're right, John. This has popped up a couple of times today, and I just want to say that it's a harsh reality, but it's a true reality. And I can say that as a mom, it doesn't feel good to leave your kid.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

As a dad, I don't like leaving my kids. I like hanging out with my kids.

[Jade Warshaw]

It doesn't feel good. But remembering what's true. And this is what I talk about in the book. The things that we tell you to do, I get. Sounds good in the moment. Yeah. Just pick up a side. Hustle, no problem. 700 bucks a month. Bam.

[Sponsor/Guest Voice]

Them.

[Jade Warshaw]

But then when you actually go home and start thinking about it, you develop these fears of, well, what if I. What's your biggest fear? Oh, my gosh. If I do that, my child is going to forget about me. I'm going to be the worst parent ever. They're going to end up in therapy. No, and I. I found, John, with. With fears, there are. They can be rational or irrational. We know that. And a lot of times when I find that there's an irrational fear, it tends to be on the vague side. It's kind of like, oh, if I do this, it's going to ruin everything.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Be specific. That's true.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you mean by that? Ruin everything? You know, if I do this, it's just, you know, my church obligations, my personal commit. No, no, no. What do you mean? Because if we can dial it down to something true that's actual, actually rational, then we can figure it out. If you said to me, paige, well, here's the thing. If I work extra, we have this thing on Wednesday nights at my church, and I'm the one that's responsible for bringing the meal. And if I don't bring the meal, then 70 people don't have, you know, food for Bible study. Right. If that's. That's a very specific problem. Problem, Then I will say, well, can't you Just call Natalie and ask her to bring the food.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right now, we can solve the problem. So you have to ask yourself, do you even really want to solve the problem? So if you do, let's get specific, number one, let's figure out and let's accept, hey, there's more than one way that I can prioritize my family. And in this season, the way I prioritize is I make sure this debt is paid off and that they have a life financially. And then number two, whatever it is I'm afraid of, can I please drill it down to something that's real and rational so that I can actually solve the problem and, and see if it's even true that this, you know what I'm saying, what it is that I'm spinning out in my brain. So that's what you need to do here. You're going to have to let these other things. Church, family, balance, I put that in quotes. Personal commitments, let those be number two, number three, number four, number five, number six on personal commitment. And in this season, for this short period of time, let yourself prioritize ties, putting your family first by getting your financials right. And that's all I can say about that, John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, yeah, it's, it's, it's short term pain for long term gain, man. Every time it's like I'm gonna, this is gonna be awful right now for the next five months getting. We have $2,000 of margin or we have $200, we're gonna, we're gonna scratch and claw, we're gonna sell some stuff and we're gonna look at do we have to have. I, I'm, I'm mean, I'm talking about getting radical in people's homes. Like with the, the, the way we live. Get radical about it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Please, please do. And I love that you said that because you're, you're gonna have to. I feel like I'm saying this all the time. You're gonna have to sacrifice.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There may be a season when you gotta move your, your thermostat down and you gotta wear jackets and get under.

[Jade Warshaw]

Blankets, or you sell your furniture and you sleep on an air mattress or you go down to one, right? And, and thank you for saying that, John, because I want you guys to know I'm never gonna tell you you something that I've not done myself, but you're talking to somebody who sold all the furniture in their house and I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sold my house and moved into a dorm. Like you just do what you got And I thank you. We, we, we, we. I drove a $3,000 truck. It's like, you do what you got to do, what you got to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

A1. We were a one car household for 10 years. The people on this show are not just. We're not just making it up. We're telling you the things that we would do. Do. And that's what you would do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Things we have done.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, the things that we've done. Exactly. This is what it takes. And change requires change. That's all I can say. And it's rarely easy. It's never comfortable. That's just part of it. And I feel like that's the drum that I'm beating today because I want people to understand that when you're in a marathon, you will feel pain. Like that's just part of it. John, again, this is in the book. When you're running a marathon, some days you go out, out, and it's sun, it's unny, and it's 70, and the birds are chirping and it's great. Same thing with your money. Some days you wake up, you're like, man, today feels a great day to pay some bills. And you're paying the bills. You fake feel good. You're not mad about paying a little bit extra on your. Your spouse's student loan. You feel good about it. You know, the check came in today. Everything's good. But then other days on the marathon, you wake up, it's stormy outside, it's cold, it's rainy. It's the big raindrops that hit you in the eye when you run that you just. They soak your clothes immediately. And it's the same thing with your money. Some days you wake up and you're like, really? This is what I get? I've been working 10 years at a job I hate, that I barely make, and this is what I get. A crappy car where the AC barely works. Right. And you want to throw up your hands and you want to quit, but you can't. Yeah, you can't quit. You have to keep going. You have to keep going. It's not easy. And that's fine. It's good that it's not easy. Because then, then at the end, what it produces in you, John, is somebody who can. Who can go the distance, who can sacrifice to one win. Somebody who can look at things as what they are and go, you know what? That makes sense. That doesn't. I can take some of the emotion out of it. I can control the emotion. It's not just. Well, this doesn't feel good. It rarely does.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I was last night, I was in Chicago, and I was sitting with a great comedian named Matt Taylor. We were talking, and he. He was talking about first starting comedy and having to scratch enough nickels together to either eat. Eat or to have a place to sleep. But he. He talked about where he is now, and it's. He says the strength he has now is. Rests on the. I had to figure it out. And so now I know what I'm made of. And so things don't scare me in the now. And it was that sense of if you don't know what you're made of. I don't think I could go without the house being at 76 degrees, but I promise you, you can, right? I don't know how we could make it without without if we sold these two recliners. And I promise you, I promise you, you'll be okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Fine. Well, this. People are adaptive. And that's the thing. You have to remember people. I don't know. I always like likening it to Covid, but there was a time of life where we wore masks over our faces, and we got used to it everywhere, everywhere. And you get used. That's just how the human. Humans are. We. We will adapt to anything and be like, okay, this is what it is. I'll make it work. And, yeah, that's how it is with your money there for a minute.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

My grandmother didn't have chick fil A. She had chickens in the backyard.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's how they did it.

[Jade Warshaw]

You'll go to sit where the recliner once was, and the first time, you'll fall back, thinking it was there. And then after that, you'll learn, oh, it's not there anymore. And you get used to sitting someplace else, because that's what you'll do, and you'll be fine. Guys, keep going. Do not give up. Do not give up. Do not give up. All right, our scripture and quote of the day, he has shown you, o mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. That's Micah 6, 8. James Clear said, every action you take is a vote for the type of person you wish to become. Love it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's such a great line.

[Jade Warshaw]

It is such a great line. It's so true. It's your choice, every single one of them. All right. Rex in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, Rex.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Hey, how's it going?

[Jade Warshaw]

Great.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

First of all, first of all me and my friends, big fans. But I graduated college back in May. I had a little over $75,000 in debt. But I was blessed to promptly get a well paying job in my major. And currently my expenses are I mean effectively zero. I was wondering how to best capitalize on the situation and get those debts paid off as quick as possible.

[Jade Warshaw]

How are your expenses? Zero.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah. So I mean after college moved back home and pretty blessed that in my job I'm constantly traveling and those travel expenses get paid for by my company. So I'm effectively besides having a girlfriend and you know, doing stuff here and there, playing golf effectively. My you know, mandatory expenses are zero currently.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got you. What are you earning?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

So right. You right now currently around 6200amonth. Month.

[Jade Warshaw]

6200Amonth. Love that for you. Okay. So thank you. Listen, you, you, you. You told me you have nothing else to pay for.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You called the wrong show, brother. You're not gonna like what we say I tell you right now, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hit him with it, John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. You got. You said you got a grown up job so now you have to start doing grown up stuff. And that means right you make 6200 bucks a month. That means in Halloween of next year you're going to be writing your last check. Pier Student loans.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Here's. So my. The loans do get deferred. So this is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, well no, look at.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I was going to say. So I've been saving. I've been saving since starting the job. I've currently have. I have about $25,000 saved and I was wondering, do I just go right at it? You know the biggest loan, your balance is now 50,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Congratulations.

[Jade Warshaw]

You keep a thou. Keep a thousand aside.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Gotcha.

[Jade Warshaw]

Keep a thousand aside. That's baby step one. You just need that there just in case, case something to fall back on. It's not much clearly but yeah now you're. Now you're at 51,000 and then you can cash flow the rest it. What could you. I'm. I'm just guessing. Can you put $5,000 a month on this?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I'm. That's currently what I, what I am doing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's amazing brother. That's all you got to do then get it done. And listen every. I was just.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

There's just so much conflicting information. I know people, you know telling people to invest and you know, let the money work for you before getting to it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm going to tell you like here's the deal. Everybody's going consider investing like building a house Everybody's going to be telling you, you want your house to look like this. No, you want a house look like this. You can't build a house in a hole. And you're in a hole right now, right? And every single person around you is one word, broke, right? Every adult next to you at church, broke. The people you work with, their lives are owned by car companies and mortgage companies, companies and credit card companies. They're owned. And you just have to choose, brother. I'm gonna simply do life a different way. And this is me desperately. You can hear it in my voice. I'm desperately talking to 21 year old me who got out of college, got my first big boy job, made a whole bunch of money, and I ended that first year out of college in more debt than I started. And you're not. You're not me. I'm just telling you, like, dude, you have a chance to change the entire trajectory of your life. Can I tell you else crazy?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When I was your age, the job I have right now did not exist. There was no such thing as a podcast, YouTube, social media. Why do I tell you that? The thing you have right now is not going to last forever, right? And so if it goes way up or if it goes sideways or, heaven forbid, even goes down, put yourself in a position where you don't owe anybody anything in the world and you've got your own place, you got some money in the bank. So when whatever happens, happens. You can. It will be a rocket ship for you, not a pushback even further. You get what I'm saying?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Right? You're right. Absolutely, bro.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You got it. You got it right in front of you, man. You got like a. You got like a path in front of you. You just. Jade and I are sitting here like, you just gotta walk that path 10 months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just walk the path 10 months and you're done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Crazier. Do it more, do it more. Put 6,000 in a bunk and do it in eight months. Like, just get it done, man.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Absolutely.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, bro.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You could be done, dude. Done, done, done, done, done.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you think he's gonna do it?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, I know he's not, bro. Listen, Rex, if you buy crypto, like, what? Whatever, dude.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I think Rex might do it because he did tell me that he could spend $5,000 on it. I think he might go on ahead and do it. All right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think everyone's gonna give him so much smoke. Like, I thought you were making money. Why are you broke all the time? He's. I'm Trying to get.

[Jade Warshaw]

He doesn't have to tell him. All right. Ben is in Des Moines, Iowa. Don't tell him. Rex. Hey, what's up, Ben? How are you?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Good. How are you guys doing?

[Jade Warshaw]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

That's good. Hey, I'm in college and I'm a young 20 year old and just trying to figure out some ways, some practical tips to really be frugal with my money. How can I stay motivated with that instead of spending more?

[Jade Warshaw]

So how would you say Motivated?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Frugal is a. Thi. Is dumb. Dumb. I rely on motivation for almost nothing cuz it's fleeting.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What. What are you asking for?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's just trying to. Just trying to save money in the long run to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

For what?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Have more in the end.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, it can't just be for nothing. What's the money going to be for?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's too big, too amorphous of a goal.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I mean, I'd say for college mainly so I can pay that off.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so what are you doing currently? Tell us about your life currently and what you're trying to get to. Because if you're trying to save up to pay off later student loans, then I would say, well, let's talk about paying cash for college now.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

What are you trying to do?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I would say just saving up, trying to pay for college. And then like also I'm really not working anywhere so like, how can I really be frugal with that? So I don't like go spend it on other stuff that I maybe don't actually really need.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Don't spend it on other stuff.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much money do you have? What do you. How much do you make?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I mean, I have like 200 with me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you got 200 bucks?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and how often do you make the 200? Is it once a month? Once a week?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

It's. I make it once every two weeks.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you got 400 bucks a month and it's like, what's the best way? If I were you, I'd throw this in a high yield savings account. When does school start?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

When did it start? In August.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, he's in class right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

And how much, how much is it a semester? Let's work backwards.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I think it's.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. You don't even know, right?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, no, I don't.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Okay, let's. Let's get some real information, some facts in front of us. You're asking us to do something for you, brother. With all due respect, you're asking us to do something for you that we can't do, which is if you've got 200 in your pocket and you know you're gonna spend it, then you have to have the discipline to put 200 in the bank or to give 200 to your friend like you. You've got to make choices for what you want to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

So.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yeah, that's perfect. That's what I need. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's give you some homework. Number one, you're going to find out how much your tuition is so that, you know, here's a. Here's something for me to aim at. Then once you know the tuition, then it's like, okay, what do I need to do to pull in, you know, fifteen hundred dollars a month so I can start to tackle some of this tuition? Right. So now you can reverse engineer it and say, what is that per month? What is it per week? And start working on that. That. That's what I would do. Right now is not the time to focus on investing or focus on anything. Yeah. It's to save up, to be able to pay cash. Because when next semester comes, you want to be able to pay cash for it. So that. That would be my biggest goal. And if you can work some extra hours, it's okay to work part time while you're in school. Studies show that you do better. You're a better manager of your time. So I would do that. How many hours are you working so far?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

I'm like six.

[Jade Warshaw]

Usually I try to get like 15 hours a week under my belt. That'd be my goal.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or more.

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, start. Start with that. If your grades aren't suffering, up it a little bit. Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or double it.

[Jade Warshaw]

But if your grades start suffering, you need to pull back, because that's the whole point. No point in paying for something that you're failing at. Right?

[Caller 2 (Allen, Thomas, Anthony, Mark, Hannah, Rex, Ben, Dave, Keaton)]

Yep. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So balance that accordingly. But that's. That's exactly what I would do if I woke up in your shoes. And like John Said said, use that. Why use that goal as your, I'll use your word motivation to do this. But it can't just be for the moment. You have to think about what life is going to feel like four years from now if you don't do it right. Do you want to wake up in a pile of 20,000, $25,000 of debt when this is all said and done? 40,000? I don't think so. So that's your motivation. Right there is the future. All right, guys, thanks for hanging out with us. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.