Rachel Cruze (2:57)

Okay, so she's not received a paycheck from that yet, that's what you're saying? Okay. Okay. So household income per month, that's going to hit your account. I know you don't know from your wife, but if you know what she's making, I mean, so you guys probably are going to hit around 10k, would you say?

Caller (3:17)

Not quite. I'm. I'm bringing home roughly $4,400 a month after taxes and 44.

Rachel Cruze (3:25)

But you make 82.

Caller (3:27)

Right. So that's with a. They give us a tool bonus that's like $1,600 after taxes and health insurance and everything. I'm supposed to be bringing home around 1500 before taxes, and I'm bringing home right at about 1100 to 1200. So between 44 and I guess maybe a little bit more per week.

Rachel Cruze (3:49)

Did you get a big tax refund? No, in April. Okay. Are you. Are they pulling anything out for retirement?

Caller (3:59)

I did put a stop on it. I was putting in around 9%, but then I found out the company doesn't start matching until after the first year. So I was like, well, I could use the money now. So I put a stop to it. And so now I'm just bringing home whatever I get after taxes.

Rachel Cruze (4:19)

Okay. I would double check that.

Dr. John Deloney (4:20)

There's something missing here. You're missing about $20,000.

Rachel Cruze (4:23)

Yeah, that feels super low. That's like half of your income going to taxes and healthcare. And I don't think that's the case. So I would double check that. I would talk to your HR department. I mean, I would, I would just, I would look through. I mean, you just filed taxes. I mean, we just passed tax season, so you should know. But. But for you guys. So it's basically like if she brings home two grand a month, 6400. So what do you so debt. Let's talk about the cars. You said you have two car payments. How much do you owe on the cars?

Caller (4:55)

Yeah, her car we over right around 12 to 13,000. I'm not 100% because it's been kind of her thing. I let her take care of her car. She pays the insurance, and then pretty much everything else just falls on me. I take care of everything else. My truck payment was kind of stupid. We started talking about it. I needed a truck for the things that I was doing on a little side job that I was Trying to help a friend with. So I bought a truck and.

Rachel Cruze (5:27)

For a side job for your friends. You're such a good friend, Dylan.

Dr. John Deloney (5:31)

How much does this truck cost?

Caller (5:35)

$45,000, Dylan. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it was. At the time I felt like I could afford it.

Dr. John Deloney (5:42)

You kill. You can't.

Rachel Cruze (5:43)

Okay, how much could you get for it today if you just went and sold it and you guys became a one car family? What if you just went crazy? What could you get for it?

Caller (5:51)

I would say maybe 28,000, because I went in upside down and then bought an extended warranty on top of it.

Rachel Cruze (5:58)

Okay, all right, Well, I. So, okay, so you got the two car loans. Keep going. What do you guys have in credit card debt?

Caller (6:07)

I don't really have any credit card debt. I got about 800.

Rachel Cruze (6:10)

Does your wife.

Caller (6:11)

No, as far as I'm aware of.

Rachel Cruze (6:13)

Okay, so that's another flag here, Dylan. You guys aren't. You don't really know what's going on in your household between you and her, the two adults. No, no, Dylan. The two adults that are supposed to be in charge of taking care of a household and these two kids. You guys don't know what's going on. Like, you don't know what's going on with each other. You can't. You said that that's her responsibility, the car, and she just takes care of that. And then I'm over and I'm like, are you two roommates? Like, no. And part of that, honestly, though, Dylan, part of the synergy is that you guys are so scattered. You're making decisions on urgency in a situation. You're not coming together and talking about this. That's one of the benefits of getting married, is you have two adults sitting in the room with two different brains that you actually get to lean on each other and talk. And you guys are making decisions in vacuums and. And you're making them urgently and in. In desperate situations, which usually always equals bad financial decisions.

Dr. John Deloney (7:10)

And so, because, bro, a wife with one ounce of care about her husband would have said, please don't buy a truck that you can't afford for your

Rachel Cruze (7:20)

friends to help your friends on the weekend.

Dr. John Deloney (7:21)

Buddies, neighbors, roommate's dog. Like, you know what I mean?

Caller (7:27)

And it's kind of my own fault. Like, it's not.

Rachel Cruze (7:30)

It is your fault.

Caller (7:31)

Honestly, her like, really pushing it to be this way. It's been the way that I was raised.

Dave Ramsey (7:39)

All right.

Dr. John Deloney (7:39)

The way you're raised sucks. Okay, so let's do this. Starting today, you sit down with your wife and you apologize and say, I've wronged you. I have left you out in the cold. I've tried to do all this myself and I'm doing a bad job and I keep digging us a deeper and deeper and deeper hole. And until you take control, like the only thing that happened to you in this is that your kid had seizures. And God bless anybody who's going through their kid being sick. You guys didn't have to buy a house. You didn't have to buy a truck. You didn't have to just make your wife like you deal with this on your own. You've got to. You don't even know what's on your own paycheck, brother. You have to get in the driver's seat of your own life. Yeah, I'm going to own this thing.

Rachel Cruze (8:21)

So stay on the line. And Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you guys a year of every dollar because our goal for you, the very first step. Dylan, together tonight, sit down with your wife, open up that app, start plugging some numbers in and use some of the content in there to start creating a step which are the baby steps. You need to get a thousand dollar emergency fund and then you guys need to start attacking this debt. It's eating up your income. You have to get out of debt and you do nothing with your life. Nothing with your life. But sell stuff and get out of Deb.

Caller (8:57)

Foreign

Dr. John Deloney (9:01)

this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Financial stress does not just damage our bank accounts, it can also take a toll on our mental and emotional health and our relationships. Money worries cause anxiety and they are one of the leading sources of conflict for all types of couples. I know this. My wife and I have struggled with money conflicts for years. Listen, Therapy can help even with money conversations. Therapy is not about financial advice, but it can help you build healthier ways of coping, give you strategies to communicate about money, and give you a plan moving forward. I want you to consider talking to my friends at Better Help. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. Better Help therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and they are fully licensed in the United States. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform. And if the first therapist isn't a great fit, you can switch at any time for no additional cost. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp help.com Ramsey.

Rachel Cruze (10:22)

Up next, we have Andy in Minneapolis. Minneapolis. Hey Andy, welcome to the show. Oh, oh, hold on.

Caller (10:30)

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Rachel Cruze (10:32)

Hi. Absolutely. How can we help today?

Caller (10:36)

I am recently divorced. I left a 15 year abusive marriage and I'm just figuring out my own finances for the first time in my adult life. And my question is kind of about my kids though. I have 12 year olds who are incredible entrepreneurs. Started their first business five years ago, are starting additional ones this year and they're doing well financially. And I wondering how to teach them and guide them about finances when I am so new to this myself.

Dr. John Deloney (11:05)

What are they doing?

Caller (11:08)

Well, a few years ago they started a beverage business and they sell beverages at events and concerts and like vendor shows. And now one is starting a 3D printing business and one is starting science facts, YouTube and channel and app and stuff.

Rachel Cruze (11:26)

Gosh, good for them. Andy.

Dr. John Deloney (11:28)

I'm trying to get my kids to pick up dog poop in the backyard. This is incredible.

Caller (11:32)

Well, they don't do that either.

Rachel Cruze (11:36)

Okay, so are you asking specifically like how they manage the money they're making or is it just more an overall question of, hey, like what the money that they're making.

Caller (11:48)

Okay, they understand business expenses and budgeting, but they are earning thousands of dollars. And I don't know how to guide them other than just put it in a bank account and don't make tons of big purchases. I just haven't had the capacity to learn more to teach them.

Rachel Cruze (12:06)

Totally. Gosh, so impressive. Well, you know, the way I look at it with my kids, I have an 11 year old, she's my oldest, and so we're starting to talk a little bit more beyond what I'm about to tell you. But I think just starting with the basics of them practicing the three big buckets of money, which is giving, saving and spending. And when you think about it as adults, that's basically all we can do with money, right? You can be more sophisticated within those buckets, but like that's, that's it. And so being able to do all three, if you're an adult and you can do all three, well, you're a pretty well rounded person with money. I would say you have a pretty healthy grasp on it. It's when people get to the extremes and that it becomes difficult, right? They spend everything they make and they're broke, or they save everything and they become hoarders. And they're not fun, enjoyable people to be around because they're just obsessed with, you know, keeping money like it. They're not generous people in that way. So I think the teaching them and let, letting them experience all three is going to be big. And so I mean we take kind of the old school approach, which is what we tell adults to do is, you know, give some of your money, have a 10%, like hey, whatever you make, 10% of it needs to go somewhere and that can be at a local church if you're there. It could be at something that they're passionate about, some type of nonprofit, whatever it looks like. But, but I think, you know, cultivating the spirit of one of the first things we do is we're givers. Like we give. And there's something in that habit that I think is so beautiful. I think saving is really big. I mean they're getting, I mean they'll be 16 here, you know, before you know it. And so I'm like, I don't know if there's a really big purchase that they can be working towards, like a car. And I don't know if they save for half. You match half. I don't know what that looks like, but that could be, that could be a really good tangible goal. And for some 12 year olds it probably feels far away. But yours sound like they're pretty, they're pretty in line with looking at big numbers, right? Which would be like a bigger purchase, like a car and then letting them enjoy some of it and then letting you know, having a percentage that they enjoy some of it. I mean they are 12, you know, and they're making great money. So if there's something fun they want to buy, um, then that's great too, right? So I think not being legalistic about it, but I think the three rhythms of that give, save, spend, I think is going to be really big. And, and that's more the tactical side of money, but there's also the emotional side of that contentment and that, you know what I mean? Like there's the emotional side of money. But for now that's probably where I would steer you from a tactical side.

Dr. John Deloney (14:35)

And I'll just tell you, I wouldn't tell you to do something I don't do in my own house. My 10 year old, she actually works a lot. She's always looking for ways to make more money. And my, I have a recent 16 year old who since he was 12, he's been saving up for the, the truck he just bought. And so, but we just put it in a regular checking, I mean regular savings account. And even for my son, my wife connected it to a till account. I don't even know what that is, but that's how she pays him and puts it in there. And but we don't mess with high yield savings accounts or any of that kind of stuff for, for our kids. When you say they make thousands, do they make 3,000 or do they make

Caller (15:15)

one has okay, well it's been I think 8,000 each overall like for the past few years but the one has like 5000 and he asked me about investment accounts the other day and like I have no idea.

Dr. John Deloney (15:29)

So the lot, the line, the standard line is the biggest investment you can make right now is in you. And so let's save up. We're going to pay cash for a car, we're going to put some money away for schooling if we want to end up doing that. If you want to start this as if you graduate from high school and you want decide you want to go full time into entrepreneurship, you're going to need some seed money. And so the line that I use in my house is the, the biggest investment you can make right now is not in market returns, it's in you. Then when you get out of college is where we want to start looking at, at big market returns.

Rachel Cruze (16:00)

Yeah. Because for a lot of investing it is for a long term, it's a long term mindset. Like you know, especially like retirement investing, you're going to touch it till you're 59. Right. And a 12 year old doesn't need to be thinking about that. Where the math is fun and for them to understand logically. My parents, that they taught us about mutual like this is what this can do. But the reality is you're going to need cash on hand to buy a car at 16 you're going to need cash for college. You're going to need cash. I mean my parents even told me when you graduate college and that transition from college to the real world, whether you need first month's rent and last month's rent for your first apartment, you got to buy, you know, furniture like there, there is in the next 10 years of his life or her life, they're going to need cash and majority of people don't even have that. And so they end up, you know, in the negative as they start adulthood. So having that there where compound interest and everything, they're going to be fine if they start investing at 21, 22. Right. So I really in my mind I wouldn't because I wouldn't even put money in like oh, buy a stock here and watch it grow because we don't even teach single stocks. Like, I wouldn't even get in the habit of that. So I would have a tangible thing, that heat that they're saving for, that they're invested in. And usually the car is it for most teenagers, which is great. And then, hey, where can we continue to enjoy some of this and give some of it? And Andy, I'll say to you, I mean, kudos to you. We always say more is caught than taught, which is so true. And in your situation, what you've just walked through as you just flippantly kind of said it at the beginning, like, I left an abusive marriage and I'm on my own. I'm like, you are incredible. And so having a mom who is figuring this stuff out and has the humility to learn and to ask and be curious about all of this, like, they're going to learn so much from you too, without you even saying a word. So your example already of what you set for them is beautiful.

Dr. John Deloney (17:44)

And bring them in, bring them into light bill conversations and bring them in. Like, if you want to do a basic run through of your budget, your kids are pretty business savvy. Show them what stuff costs and you'll see your kids start to turn the lights off. And you'll see your kids looking at like, they'll, they'll bicker with each other like, it's at 74, let's move it to 76. So we can say like, you'll see that kind of stuff happening, but let them watch you figure it out. I it on, on. Not all the time, but a couple of times a year, I'll hand my tithing check to one of my kids. I want them to see that check. And they'll look at me all wide eyed and I'll say, it's not our money, right? And they're like, oh yeah, oh yeah, right. But that, I don't like showing anybody that stuff. But that's how they're gonna learn. Oh my, my mom and my dad put their money where their mouth is, right? So bring them into some of those conversations.

Caller (18:38)

Are you like, with the kids, like, do I share income?

Dr. John Deloney (18:42)

My kids don't know how much money I make. I don't give them, like, because, and I don't tell them. I, my son knows that I've got a college account. He does not know how much money is in that account because it's not his. Because he'll start, he'll start spending it.

Rachel Cruze (18:53)

Oh, dad.

Dr. John Deloney (18:55)

But, but I, I do show them how much stuff costs and that that is, that's been really eye opening for everybody. And my daughter's 10. She's starting to come into those conversations with us.

Caller (19:11)

Okay.

Rachel Cruze (19:12)

Yeah, I think it is. I mean, that, that 12, 13, 14, they can start to grasp things and if they know how much it takes to run a household and be an adult, from car insurance to health insurance, life insurance to the life. Even my son, Netflix, Disney, all these things that we have bundled together. Here's how much this is. Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (19:32)

My son the other day just said, hey, dad, I think I'm going to drop out of high school right now, get a job, McDonald's, and start, like, I just want to start making money and whatever. And he had factored in rent, and I was like, okay, what about this and this and light bill? And he just goes, all right, I'll stay in school.

Caller (19:45)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (19:46)

But it's just, it's, it's, it's part of their growth process. But you aren't less than just because you don't have this stuff all dialed in. Let them watch mom learn, and that'll be the greatest gift you could give them.

Rachel Cruze (20:13)

Hey, you guys, did you know that there are thousands of data brokers whose entire business is collecting and selling personal information? Things like your home address, your phone number, and even your relatives names. You guys, that is just crazy. But that is why I use Delete me. Because those companies pull information from public records, social media, and all kinds of other places. Then suddenly all that information shows up on random websites and removing it yourself means going site by site, filling out forms and hoping they actually take it down. It takes hours, and then it can even pop up somewhere else again. But DeleteMe's team of privacy experts removes your personal information from hundreds of those data broker sites. And within a week, you'll get a report showing what they have found and what they have removed. And they keep saying, scanning and cleaning up your data year round. So take back control of your privacy. Go to JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey and get 20% off your annual plan. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey. Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it? Well, that is so normal for so many people, because normal is broke. And listen, you don't have to live that way. Our EveryDollar budget app helps you find extra money every month and helps you build a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. And in just 15 minutes, you can find thousands of dollars in hidden margin because it's going to feel like you Got a raise. And we helped you with all these prompts to be thinking outside the box of where your money is going. So don't live normal. Do not live broke. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's head to Phoenix. And we have Lauren on the line. Hi, Lauren. Welcome to the show.

Caller (22:20)

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Rachel Cruze (22:23)

Absolutely. How can we help?

Caller (22:25)

Okay, so my husband and I started the every dollar app a couple months ago. He started listening to you guys and then got me on board. And we ended up selling our truck and taking out a personal loan for the BAL, getting about 50,000 knocked off of our debt.

Rachel Cruze (22:44)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (22:44)

Way to go.

Rachel Cruze (22:45)

Good job.

Caller (22:46)

Yeah. So we were super proud of that. And now we are actually evaluating if we should sell our house and use the profit to wipe out the rest of our debt and just get a clean slate. Rent for a couple months, build up an actual down payment the right way and just be able to kind of fast track getting debt free. So we have a significant amount of debt. So I can kind of list it out. Our monthly income is 11,700, roughly. He's flat rate mechanic and I'm a nail tech. So it varies.

Rachel Cruze (23:20)

Okay.

Caller (23:21)

But that's about what we're bringing in a month. And then we've got. His student loan balance is 3650. We've got a credit card for 3600. Our tax balance for this year is 5277. The personal loan for the truck balance ended up being 7,500.

Rachel Cruze (23:43)

Okay.

Caller (23:45)

We've got a solar loan attached to the house for 31,300, which we're hoping will be assumed by the next owner. That would be the goal. And then my null net balance or my student loan balance is about 47,000.

Rachel Cruze (24:03)

Okay.

Caller (24:05)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (24:05)

And you had me. I was like, oh, you're gonna be able to do this? And then it's like, oh, 70. 70 more thousand dollars. $75,000.

Rachel Cruze (24:12)

But you guys, before tax and stuff, you guys are running, what, probably 130,

Caller (24:17)

I think so. My husband would know that better than me.

Rachel Cruze (24:20)

Yeah, yeah, 130. 140.

Dr. John Deloney (24:22)

Do you have little ones?

Caller (24:24)

Yes, we have. Well, we have three. We have 15, 12 and 10 year olds, so.

Rachel Cruze (24:29)

Okay. And how much is your mortgage a month?

Caller (24:33)

A lot. It is $3,032. And we in two years have only knocked down 10 grand on principal on our house.

Rachel Cruze (24:42)

Sure.

Caller (24:42)

So we're like paying interest.

Rachel Cruze (24:44)

Yeah, yeah. It's not. It's not. It's not crazy, though, in relation to your income. I thought you were going to say it was going to be like a $5,000 mortgage or $6,000 mortgage. So it's. So, yeah. Your house. I don't think Lauren is the problem. I mean, genuinely, like, we say 25% and you guys are a little bit. But I think. I think over time, you guys will get within that range pretty quickly.

Dr. John Deloney (25:10)

Okay, what's the opportunities? Go ahead.

Caller (25:14)

I'm sorry. I think where we're at is we still owe $412,000 on this house that we're not necessarily wanting to. Like, our kids are getting older, they're getting into their teens, and we're kind of thinking about like the next five to 10 years. Do we want to put another 400,000 into this house that we don't need this much space, you know, either. So it's like that to me, is that out and start over, Lauren?

Dr. John Deloney (25:39)

That's the question.

Rachel Cruze (25:40)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (25:40)

Like, if. If you don't love this house and you don't want to live there and y' all want to downsize, but that's awesome.

Caller (25:47)

My gut tells me it's just a lot of house.

Dr. John Deloney (25:51)

Yeah, sure.

Caller (25:51)

No more kids in a few years.

Dr. John Deloney (25:54)

I. Part of me thinks that the grind is what y' all need.

Caller (26:00)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (26:02)

That just getting up every day and figuring out, hey, can he take. Can he go work in somebody else's shop on Saturdays and can he. And all this is hard because y' all have kids entering in those ages. When you got a 15 year old, you start counting the days. Right. Like we got.

Caller (26:16)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (26:17)

Three years and then he's gone. Right. And so I get all of that if you told me, you know what, dude, we're gonna sell this house anyway when. When one of our kids leaves and we're gonna. Just gonna be four of us then. Yeah, sure. Put on the market and sell. Wipes out all of your debts and whatever. I think you're being pretty optimistic about the solar loan getting absorbed, but maybe not. Maybe not.

Caller (26:38)

But we assumed it. That's how we got it.

Dr. John Deloney (26:41)

Okay. Okay.

Caller (26:42)

Bought the house. And it's kind of a thing in the. In our area. Okay.

Rachel Cruze (26:46)

Yeah.

Caller (26:46)

So I'm not worried about that. I'm more worried about when I spoke to a realtor this morning. She said we're probably not going to get close to what we would need to in order to cover realtor fees and closing costs, because it's apparently a buyer's market right now. And so how long have you been in the House profit would. We've only been here for two years in this house.

Dr. John Deloney (27:06)

Oh, so you don't have equity.

Caller (27:08)

Yeah, not much. Okay then for sure that we could probably. She said we could probably sell it for 460 to 470. We owe 412. So that was so pretty much.

Rachel Cruze (27:19)

Yeah.

Caller (27:19)

You know.

Rachel Cruze (27:20)

Okay, so Lauren, that would be the trade off. So listen, if you, if you guys decided to do it, do that now, you wouldn't get. You. Would you make a ton? What would you make on. Because you said you barely cover all the fees, the realtor fees and everything. So you really wouldn't make a ton to pay off the present debt. It would be more of a future of saying, oh, we only have to. To pay off a $300,000 mortgage versus a 450. And you guys feel like you can swallow that easier, Right. Stomach that easier. So what I would, what I would suggest though is I think that's a, that's a long term problem that you're seeing and feeling that actually may be relieved once you're debt free from consumer debt.

Caller (27:58)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (27:58)

And, and you're gonna have to turn around and get rent a house for $2500 for five people minimum.

Caller (28:05)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (28:05)

Probably $3000.

Caller (28:06)

So yeah,

Dr. John Deloney (28:09)

it would save you a little bit, but I, I don't think that's the big rock here. The big rock. I mean, if you told me you were going to be able to save 3,000 bucks a month or you had a hundred thousand dollars in equity, that would make sense. But this isn't moving your position anywhere. It's, it's, in fact, it's making your life more complicated because you guys have

Rachel Cruze (28:26)

about six grand left after you pay the mortgage. Where is that, where is all that going?

Caller (28:32)

We just recently said we just started the. Every dollar up. We were eating our money.

Rachel Cruze (28:38)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.

Caller (28:40)

And we've gotten better on it. But.

Rachel Cruze (28:42)

Yeah, yeah. So what I would say is what's crazy about when you look all this out? And I just, I did a rough map real quick of a calendar for you all, but I'm like, if you could find three grand a month, that's finding in every dollar the expenses, which actually probably 2000 of it could be sitting in there that you don't know about, when you just actually shore everything up and say we're not spending anything and then you guys go make some extra cash on the side. And in that example, it would just be an extra thousand bucks of you working a little bit more or him working, you know, a Saturday or two a month. You guys could have your. Have your $3,000 debt knocked out, your credit card debt knocked out, and his student loan debt all by August. Like if you threw a three grand at this stuff every single month and then you're down to the 7500 and you can knock that out in two months, right? And then you're looking at the solar and your student loan debt, which will be. Those will take longer for sure. But I'm just saying a lot of these ankle biter stuff, if you guys really, really tighten up and say, hey, we are going to spend nothing, we are going to work extra and we're gonna put three to four grand more than what we're doing today on this debt, you know, you, you know, two, two and a half years, you guys are out.

Dr. John Deloney (29:54)

You know, something we do in my house, I actually. Part of my kids, I don't use the word allowance, but part of the things we pay them for is each kid does one meal a week. And so it's tough if you're working nail tech all day. You're. You're exhausted, your husband's underneath machines all day. Let's have your, you got three kids. Have each one of them be responsible for a meal. Pay them each 10 bucks a week for cooking or whatever. They get to earn a little tiny little bit of money. But you all save a jillion dollars by not eating out all the time.

Caller (30:27)

Yeah, we've done a lot better this month, but, yeah, it's still pretty significant. Like, we need to cut it out completely. It's just kind of. We're trying to ease into it.

Dr. John Deloney (30:35)

Don't ease into it. Cannonball. Cannonball Bab.

Rachel Cruze (30:38)

Sure. Yeah. And you know what, Lauren? I would, I would just, I would grind it out. Because you guys, if you guys had $300,000 of equity and you're like, we want to downsize or something, you know, you could make it make sense, but right now it doesn't because you don't have the equity, which you guys are barely going to even just break even on a problem again. That is so far in the future. I would fix this stuff in two, two and a half years. And then you guys look up five years owning the home. If there's some equity and you still want to downsize, then I would make that move.

Dr. John Deloney (31:24)

Dave. We got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

Dave Ramsey (31:32)

You know, we hear it all the time. A car Accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

Dr. John Deloney (31:40)

Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

Dave Ramsey (31:47)

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance.

Dr. John Deloney (32:03)

Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

Rachel Cruze (32:12)

So it replaces a large part of

Dr. John Deloney (32:13)

your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

Dave Ramsey (32:17)

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

Dr. John Deloney (32:35)

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

Dave Ramsey (32:42)

I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family.

Dr. John Deloney (32:48)

So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Dave Ramsey (32:56)

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Rachel Cruze (33:17)

All right, next up is Andrew in Salt Lake City. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the show.

Caller (33:24)

Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call.

Rachel Cruze (33:25)

Absolutely. How can we help?

Caller (33:28)

So I'm 22 years old and I make $120,000 a year, and I have been since August. But I've been in my career for about two and a half years now. And I kind of have a car question. So I currently drive, or I used to drive, an older Toyota Tacoma. Now I had that, and then I had a 24 Corolla Hybrid. So it's kind of like my commuter. I drive about 25 to 30,000 miles a year, but I ended up selling my truck because it ended up getting into an accident. I sold it for 500 bucks more than I bought it for. And I was kind of wondering if I could be able to get into maybe another truck or a four Runner type vehicle just because I got three dogs. I like to go camping, fishing a lot. That's my main hobby. I have about 25, 000 in savings and 25, 000 in investments. 401K Roth IRA. Yeah. Kind of curious what I would be able to do.

Rachel Cruze (34:29)

And so what are you currently driving right now?

Caller (34:33)

A Corolla hybrid.

Dr. John Deloney (34:34)

Okay, bro, that car is gonna just as on the side. My wife got a Corolla right before we got married, and I drove it forever. And I just said, as soon as this thing dies, I'll get myself something else. I finally gave up. That car will never die. You'll have that Corolla till the end of time, forever. I know. And that's why Andrew's like, I don't want it.

Caller (34:56)

Yeah, I drive for. I drive a lot for work, so I get paid about 75 cents a mile. So that's basically free. Yes, but It's. It's about $19,000 on the note, which I haven't paid a dime towards.

Rachel Cruze (35:10)

Oh, you owe 19,000 on the Corolla?

Caller (35:14)

Yes, I do.

Rachel Cruze (35:15)

Oh, okay.

Dr. John Deloney (35:16)

Yeah.

Caller (35:17)

If I owned it outright, I think it'd be a different story, but I.

Dr. John Deloney (35:20)

I would pay that off before I bought anything else. And I know that's like, dude, I'm an outdoorsman. I know that's like a kick in the teeth, but running, you're one. Getting laid off or you're one. They're going to reduce the mileage or you're one. Your current situation is based on somebody else's decision. And we wouldn't have jobs if people didn't weren't faced with that every single day.

Rachel Cruze (35:46)

Yeah. How much. How much is it worth?

Caller (35:50)

My trade in value is about 26,000 right now.

Rachel Cruze (35:53)

Oh, it's worth 26,000? Well, if you could figure out a way to finagle selling it and putting a little bit of money of your 25,000, you got to pay it off and have a little bit to put towards something and get a used paid off car or truck. I would consider that if you wanted to do that. But the thing is, you're technically on baby step two, Right. So when you're working the Ramsey plan, and if you paid off the car, you'd have $6,000 and a $25,000 paid off car. Technically. Right. Because what you said it was worth, you get 25 for. Is that what you said?

Caller (36:35)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruze (36:36)

Yeah.

Caller (36:36)

Yep.

Rachel Cruze (36:37)

So if that's the case, you got $6,000 in savings and a $25,000 card. If you wanted to trade the $25,000 car for a $25,000 truck, you could do that. Right? Like, if you wanted to get something that you wanted, I'd be okay with that. And then you got to beef up that $6,000 emergency fund to a probably a three month emergency fund for baby step three, and then go on for investing all of it. But no, you don't need a brand new truck, and I don't think you need anything worth more than the car you're currently driving once it's paid off.

Caller (37:08)

I agree. I guess the question after that would be for my mileage per year being like a high mileage driver and essentially being forced to for work, how do you think that factors into like the, you know, how people talk about the affordability of vehicles and kind of how I'm essentially bottlenecked into a certain type of vehicle as gas mileage? Because of your work, they don't pay for fuel.

Rachel Cruze (37:32)

Yeah. Well, that's gonna have to be a decision that you make. I don't know. Andrew, do you want to pay for the truck mileage, you know, and, and the gas for a truck? Yeah, that's. That would be your decision. Can you do that in your monthly budget? Is that worth it for you?

Dr. John Deloney (37:46)

Well, 75 cents a mile should cover that, right?

Caller (37:49)

Yeah, it covers it.

Dr. John Deloney (37:52)

I mean, that's, that's what that money's right now.

Caller (37:55)

Yeah, I'm profiting about, I would say $35 a gallon of gas.

Rachel Cruze (38:02)

Are you trying to figure out how to keep the Corolla and get a truck?

Caller (38:06)

That's what I wanted to do originally as that's the setup I had before.

Dr. John Deloney (38:11)

I wouldn't do that until you. Yeah, I wouldn't do that until you paid off the Corolla. I wouldn't do it to. You paid off the Corolla and paid

Rachel Cruze (38:18)

cash for a truck.

Dr. John Deloney (38:19)

Cash for a truck, yeah. Yeah. And by the way, dude, I like, until last year, my daily driver to work was an 06 Tundra that got like 1 1/2 miles a gallon. But it was awesome. And it will again. We'll go to the, you're a Toyota guy like me. It'll go to the end of time. Right. And so I, I wouldn't use this as an opportunity to upgrade cars and get a newer Tacoma or get a newer Ford. Like if you're gonna buy a camping car, I would buy a camping car. Right. But even then, I wouldn't do it until after I'd paid off that Corolla. You, I, I think you say you're 22 or 23, is that right?

Caller (38:55)

Yep.

Dr. John Deloney (38:55)

Okay. I'm trying to picture myself at 22 or 23, making 100, 120 grand, which I wasn't even anywhere near that world. I can't imagine that you don't think, feel like you're rich and you are for a 22 year old, you'd be surprised.

Caller (39:12)

I really don't.

Dr. John Deloney (39:13)

Okay, well, if you, if you're getting 75 cents a mile and you're driving and you're making 120 grand, you're doing insanely well for 22 years old. I want you to listen to two people like years after 22, you're literally one email away from your boss saying, hey, we're going. We, we can't afford it because of conflicts in the Middle east, so we're gonna go down to 25 cents a mile or. Or we're cutting jobs, we're cutting jobs or whatever. And man, you're just so exposed right now, even though it doesn't feel like it.

Rachel Cruze (39:46)

Yep. So, Andrew, we would pay off your Corolla today because you have the money for it. And then beyond that, if you want to trade the Corolla for something else, you can do that. Or if you want to save up on the side to get a truck or a camping thing and you want to, you can just pay cash and

Dr. John Deloney (40:01)

buy used and this sounds cheesy, man, but if you look at your actual life, I remember one time we, when my wife and I moved from Houston and I didn't want to move because I was like, man, we go to Astros games, we go to concerts and all this. And she said, all right, how many baseball games did we go to last year? And I was like, I was like, okay, two. And she said, how many trips when we were living across the state did we go back to Houston to see games? Two. Right. So it was like, if you look at your life and you actually go fishing once a month, go rent a truck, go rent one and drop it off and it will be 150 or 200 bucks and call it good. Turn the keys back in and keep your life, keep your cash to yourself.

Rachel Cruze (40:43)

Yeah. Or God forbid, just take the Corolla.

Dr. John Deloney (40:45)

Take the Corolla, pile the dogs in.

Rachel Cruze (40:47)

I mean, I mean, honestly, put your

Dr. John Deloney (40:49)

tent in the truck and call it, man.

Caller (40:50)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (40:50)

Enjoy your life.

Rachel Cruze (40:51)

Absolutely. I know when you put so much of your money, and especially you starting off, Andrew, like, you got 25,000 in retirement, which is great, $25,000, you're doing some great stuff. But when you start to shift that for focus to more consumer base. Oh, I Want this especially depreciating assets, especially a car, right, that you're like, okay, I'm going to just add on, add on. You're just, just watch the habits that you're starting to build at 22 is what I would say. That'd be my word of caution of just, instead of kind of just figuring it out and just getting what you need to kind of like take, you know, have for your life and be like, yes, I need this car. Not so much great for work, but great for my leisure activities or whatever. That's fine. But, but yeah, buying the two cars right now, I don't know, it just

Dr. John Deloney (41:38)

feels, here's my promise. 42 year old you will wish when you're married, you got some kids, 42 year old, you will wish you had a whole bunch of money in the bank, not two cars. When you're 22. And just think about 42 year old you, you'll be able to go on some wicked awesome camping trips when you got cash.

Rachel Cruze (41:57)

Yep, for sure. But you're, and you're almost there, Andrew, again hear us say like you're, you're

Dr. John Deloney (42:01)

on the right track, you're dominating.

Rachel Cruze (42:03)

But, but again, pay off that car today, you have the money. Do not be paying a car loan with interest on a depreciating asset for another month. Don't do it. So just pay it off, you'll have the six grand. And then actually when you start working with cash, Andrew, it kind of changes your mindset. It makes you think twice about something, right? When you have debt and you're like, okay, I can afford that payment here or this thing over here, because it's just these small payments month to month, it doesn't feel like a big deal. But when you actually start living within your means and spending your own money, it actually changes the game and actually may change your mind once you have it paid off. And you're like, man, I don't know if I want to spend or save up for another car. I kind of want to save up and start investing or doing something else with this money.

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Rachel Cruze (44:20)

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. In the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. So give us a call at 888-255-225. All right, let's go to Minneapolis. I'll pronounce it correctly this hour. And we have Monica on the line. Hi, Monica. Welcome to the show.

Caller (44:41)

Hi, I'm a huge fan.

Rachel Cruze (44:42)

Oh, thank you. Thanks for calling in.

Dr. John Deloney (44:44)

We're a huge fan of yours, Monica. So what's up?

Caller (44:51)

So I have a question. We're just kind of having a debate, my husband and I, about how much I should be spending a month. And I want to be within budget, but I'm kind of confused on what's acceptable and what's not less than your budget.

Dr. John Deloney (45:06)

Ta da.

Caller (45:07)

Right? There you go.

Dr. John Deloney (45:09)

Solved. Okay, okay, so I was just. I'm just messing with you. What's your confusion? Me and Rachel love solving marital disputes, so we're going to solve this.

Rachel Cruze (45:17)

We love spenders like you, Monica. We're glad you called.

Caller (45:21)

Well, I used to not be a spender because I had no money. And then we had children and they need all the things.

Dr. John Deloney (45:30)

Oh, are you one of those moms that likes your kids to have shoes and stuff?

Rachel Cruze (45:34)

Yeah, boo.

Caller (45:38)

Yeah. I just feel like the kids expenses just pop up. You know, she. She's rough on her tennis shoes and the next thing you know, like, she needs a new pair of shoes.

Rachel Cruze (45:48)

Totally, totally.

Dr. John Deloney (45:49)

So what's your husband upset about?

Caller (45:52)

I do spend too much. But that's what I asked. I said, well, do you want me to stop going to the personal trainer?

Caller (45:58)

Which we said spend too much money

Caller (46:00)

on, but it is really beneficial. She's more of like a physical therapist and has helped my back get a lot better.

Dr. John Deloney (46:05)

Okay.

Caller (46:06)

So. Nope. Not that he's like, you don't. You're not into like brand names and all that. So I'm not worried about what you spend on clothes and not worried about hair salon. You can always go there. And I just like, so what then?

Rachel Cruze (46:19)

It's almost like he just has this random feeling. There's no, like, Actual hard data.

Caller (46:25)

Well, I am spending too much, though, on.

Rachel Cruze (46:28)

Why do you say that?

Caller (46:29)

Our houses. Our houses. Our house is paid off. Our cars are paid off. I don't know how much insurance costs and things like that, because I'm kind of a child when it comes to, like, that end of who's in charge with our relationship. But I'm spending 12,000amonth. And I know 2,000 is on groceries, 150 is on the gym, 480 is the personal trainer, 200amonth on hair. And then I don't have a tally on all the things.

Rachel Cruze (46:59)

There's a lot left.

Dr. John Deloney (47:00)

Yeah. Where's the other $10,000?

Caller (47:04)

Right. I know I'm racking my brain, and I think it's. I mean, I garden, so we buy a lot of stuff for the garden. And when I say garden, yes, some flowers, but it's also a lot of vegetables and stuff.

Dr. John Deloney (47:15)

Yeah, but we do that, too. And my wife collects seeds and, like, I don't know how big your gardens are.

Rachel Cruze (47:21)

How much you guys make a year.

Caller (47:25)

Almost 400.

Rachel Cruze (47:27)

And you're completely debt free.

Dr. John Deloney (47:32)

My. My big concern here is that you don't know where it's going. Thousand dollars a month is going because y' all are, like. I'm gonna say this nicely, but y' all are wealthy. Y' all are doing really well.

Caller (47:43)

I'm not offended about anything you say.

Dr. John Deloney (47:45)

No, no, I know. I know.

Caller (47:46)

But, like, I know you're a nice person.

Dr. John Deloney (47:48)

Y'.

Caller (47:48)

All.

Dr. John Deloney (47:48)

Y' all are doing really well. My concern is, it. It. It's. I. I'm in your husband's camp here, that I want my wife to spend what she wants to spend. I want her to feel good. I want her to do all those things that make her who she is, and then there's $10,000 more dollars a month that are unaccounted for. And I'm troubled here that you don't even have a ballpark. You don't seem to have any idea where that money's going to.

Caller (48:19)

We. I'm that mom that, like, every holiday has to be super special, but I know that I decorate for all of it. We have a trail in our backyard that I decorate for Halloween, and then we decorate it for Christmas and decorate for Easter and their birthdays, and you're

Rachel Cruze (48:34)

dropping, like, two grand on something like that and not really thinking much about it. Probably, like, it'll be that kind of stuff that you're doing. Okay. Okay. So you're spending. You said 12 grand. You guys. What hits your account every month. Probably 30.

Caller (48:51)

I don't know.

Rachel Cruze (48:52)

Okay. Okay. So here.

Caller (48:53)

Because it's inconsistent, so I don't want to get into details, but it's a job.

Rachel Cruze (48:57)

Okay, that's fine. Okay. Do you guys. Are you guys intentional with how much you're giving and saving every month? You'll have goals.

Caller (49:06)

He is super good with that stuff. There's investments and things. He showed me paperwork and I think I have dyslexia with numbers.

Rachel Cruze (49:13)

Okay, so I don't.

Dr. John Deloney (49:14)

You don't.

Rachel Cruze (49:15)

Okay. I'm going to have a hot take here. Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (49:18)

Okay.

Rachel Cruze (49:18)

Because of how much you make considering everything is paid off. Okay. Y' all have not. You have. You're. You're fine. If you're investing, I'm going to pretend, Monica, that you guys are investing in retirement. You have. Your future is being taken care of. The kids college is being taken care of. You're giving. I'm going to just assume you're being very responsible people. You're at a high bar.

Caller (49:39)

You have the fund started for.

Rachel Cruze (49:40)

And then you have, you know, 25, $30,000 left a month. Okay. Hot take. If everything else is taken care of. The number doesn't like super throw me off. It's not like you guys can't afford it. Here's what's throwing me off. Two things, Monica. Number one, you personally don't know where this money's going. There's no line item for Easter. And God forbid, Monica puts for some people, they're gonna think you are insane that you're gonna put $1,500 for your Easter trail. I know, but that's where you're choosing to spend it and you have it. Monica's all, I wanna stick up for you.

Dr. John Deloney (50:15)

One even, even that you said Christmas, Easter and Halloween. If you spent 2,000 bucks a month decorating the trail behind your house, that's 6,000 bucks. You spend double that every month.

Rachel Cruze (50:27)

Okay, so. So that's what I'm saying though is like you, you at least if I knew you knew where this money's going and you had a self check of like, okay, that, that feels right for me and X, Y and Z. Everyone values different things. Everyone throws their one year old. A birthday party looks like a wedding reception. I don't get why, but people do it. And it's fine if you have the money. I'm not mad at you. It's not a moral thing. So this is where. So I wanna fight for you in the sense of like, you guys have done so well. Okay? And you are allowed to Spend some money. But the problem is back. I'm rambling. One is you don't know where the money's going. Monica, big problem. If you can map out exactly what's going on, then we can actually have an adult conversation. And then number two, you don't know what's going on with any of your money. Like you've said, you've deferred to your husband three or four different times on this call. And that's a problem.

Dr. John Deloney (51:14)

That's a. I think your husband's statement you're spending too much is if I got to the thing beneath the thing of that statement. It is, it's out of control. You're immature in this relationship. And I'm having to do all this by myself.

Rachel Cruze (51:27)

Yeah, you're more like the child and he's having the parent that's having to take care of.

Dr. John Deloney (51:30)

He doesn't, he doesn't want to be your dad. He wants to be your husband.

Rachel Cruze (51:33)

Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (51:34)

And that means you, you have to

Rachel Cruze (51:35)

be a partner in this.

Dr. John Deloney (51:36)

You come to him tonight and say, I've acted like a child and I'm sorry. I wanted. I don't have dyslexia with numbers. That's not a thing. I don't know how all the investments work and whatever, but I do know how addition and subtraction works. I want to know how much we make. I want to go through our statements over the last three months and go line by line. I want to find out where this money's going. And I promise that if we make a budget, I'll stick to it.

Caller (52:03)

Okay.

Rachel Cruze (52:03)

And, and Monica, and it's going to be a good exercise for you because part of handling money, if the numbers work, like right, that's our first big check mark I feel like is like when we look at the data, do the numbers work? And yes, you're not going into debt for this stuff. Like the numbers work. But there's also a spiritual component to money that you're not being, you're not being a great manager of your money. You're sloppy with it. Right. So again, I'm not mad that you're spending money, but you're spending it on impulse and what feels good and what I need to do in the moment

Dr. John Deloney (52:30)

and with no accountability.

Rachel Cruze (52:31)

And that's not, that's not a good character building moment. You need some discipline in it. Again.

Dr. John Deloney (52:36)

And your husband needs a partner.

Caller (52:38)

Yes.

Rachel Cruze (52:38)

Yes. So all those things combined, Monica, you guys make it to the end of this and say, yes, we're still going to spend Fifteen hundred dollars on the trail. And that's right, that's what you're deciding to spend. But at least you're doing it as an adult with a rational thought behind it, as a good manager.

Dave Ramsey (53:04)

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Rachel Cruze (54:27)

Up next, we have Bruce in Philadelphia. Hi, Bruce. Welcome to the show.

Caller (54:33)

Thank you for taking my call. How are you?

Rachel Cruze (54:34)

Yes, we're doing great. How can we help today?

Caller (54:37)

Well, I have a question. I'll give you a little background. I'm 72. I'm retired. I have roughly about 1.3 million. And I also have a retirement income of about 150 before taxes. And I'm looking to do some. Well, I've been investing mostly in CDs, and I don't know if I should continue just rolling over those CDs or going into something a little more aggressive.

Rachel Cruze (55:09)

Yeah, for sure. So is the 1.3 in CDs?

Caller (55:13)

No, the 1.3 is. Some of it is in IRAs. And the rest of it? Yeah, it's spread out. Yeah, it spread. Some of it spread out into CDs.

Rachel Cruze (55:21)

Oh, okay. Some of the 1.3. How much of the 1.3 is in CDs?

Caller (55:27)

About 500,000.

Rachel Cruze (55:30)

Oh, wow.

Caller (55:31)

Okay.

Rachel Cruze (55:33)

And the 150 that you're living off of, is that coming out of the 1.3?

Caller (55:39)

Some of it is. Most of it's coming from retirement, pension and Social Security.

Rachel Cruze (55:44)

Oh, okay, great. Awesome. Well, yes. Short answer is yes, Bruce. I would move for sure that 500. Yes. Into. Into the market. Yeah, of Investing it. I mean, it would be. You can look into different types of mutual funds, you can look at index funds, but with the market kind of the. The rule of 72, just the quick math is investing it. Usually you double your money in seven years. So in seven years, you would have a million. Seven years later you'd have 2 million where CDs, you're making like maybe 3%.

Caller (56:19)

Yeah, 3.7.

Rachel Cruze (56:21)

Yeah.

Caller (56:21)

I mean, you could move it all

Dr. John Deloney (56:22)

into a high yield savings account and make more than that.

Rachel Cruze (56:24)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (56:25)

And if you move. If you move half a million dollars, somebody will give you three and a half or four percent on that money. What are you. What are you at right now? Two and three quarters.

Caller (56:36)

Can you repeat that? I'm sorry, what.

Dr. John Deloney (56:38)

What. What are you. What interest are you generating on those CDs?

Caller (56:44)

Some of them are at four something, I think.

Rachel Cruze (56:47)

Yeah. Well, so, okay. Yeah. So if you think about it, the market, I mean, it's. I mean, again, depending on your. It's kind of so volatile, I feel like this calendar year. But overall, you're going to. On average, safe is 10, is 10%. So. And that's just safe, right? Some. Some years, I mean, the past, what, two years, it was like at 23%. I mean, it was just crazy. It was crazy what you can do. So. And especially since you don't need the money, right. Because you would. You do want to kind of let it ride out in case you put the money in and if you needed it in two months, you know, take some out, you know, that wouldn't feel great if it was dropping a little bit, but letting it all kind of just, you know, have some time to settle into the market and let the market settle. Right. It's ups and downs. I would for sure, Bruce. Yes. I would put that into the market instead of CDs, without a doubt.

Caller (57:39)

Okay. Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (57:40)

Or to put it in a different way, neither Rachel nor I put our money in, have $1 in a CD. So it's not. It's not like us just telling you something hypothetical.

Rachel Cruze (57:48)

And I don't think we've ever once told anyone to put money in CDs, either, Bruce. So, yeah, it is. From the track record of what the market's doing, it is safe. And I understand, even at your age, of being cautious with it. Right. And saying like, okay, where are we at? But honestly, 72 still is pretty young. I'm like, you could. And if you're in good health, you could have 20 years. Yeah. I mean, seriously. So, so no, I would Definitely put it in the market, not only because it's the best investment, but also you don't need the money. The income that you're getting is from pensions and Social Security. You're not even using most of it. So if there is a little bit of dip and you don't need to take out as much, it's not going to hurt that bad. So it's a great question. And Bruce, well done.

Dr. John Deloney (58:27)

Yeah. Excellent, brother.

Rachel Cruze (58:28)

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. All right, let's go to Tibby in Jacksonville. Hi, welcome to the show.

Caller (58:36)

Hi.

Caller (58:36)

How are you guys today?

Rachel Cruze (58:37)

Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

Caller (58:41)

So, we have kind of an interesting situation. We have about 25,000 in savings. The only debt that we have is a travel trailer that we're actively paying off. We just paid off my husband's student loans. Other than that, we don't have any other debt aside from our house. And through a series of unfortunate events, we. I just discovered that we actually have mold growing on the bottom side of our couch.

Dr. John Deloney (59:21)

Oh, ew. Throw it away.

Caller (59:25)

Well, my question is, do we dip into the emergency fund for that? Is that something that's worthy of an emergency fund?

Dr. John Deloney (59:34)

Pull some chairs around. Pull some chairs around. You'll be fine.

Caller (59:39)

I know. We have a 10 month old, though.

Dr. John Deloney (59:41)

That makes it even. You're 10 months old. You're gonna get a new couch. Your 10 month old is gonna shotgun out of both ends on that new couch

Rachel Cruze (59:49)

and spill milk on it, which is gonna cause more mold. You don't want anything nice right now? No, no, no.

Dr. John Deloney (59:58)

I wouldn't go.

Rachel Cruze (59:59)

You, you for real and not buy a cows.

Dr. John Deloney (60:02)

I, I, well, listen, you have to understand that it was when my first book went number one that my wife asked, hey, we have a bed frame that you bought off Craigslist for $50 and spray painted. Can we get a real bed? So I'm probably not the best furniture guy in the world to ask, but I would if it was my house. Pull some couches. I mean, pull some chairs. Some shenanigans. Sit on the floor with your kid or whatever. And by the way, not having a couch in the living room will. You'll have more action with your kid on the floor. Y' all will actually go to bed on time and not rock for the tv. It could change your life in a bunch of positive ways. Okay, look, but that's not why you're calling me. I know.

Rachel Cruze (60:43)

All right, Rooms to go, sofas from 3.99. I'd be okay if you spend 400 bucks on a rooms to go sofa.

Dr. John Deloney (60:51)

I call it a day. I'll go with Rachel if you have.

Rachel Cruze (60:53)

No. And you can't. You cannot take it out of your emergency fund. You got to take it out of your restaurant budget or something else. You got a cash flow?

Caller (61:00)

Yeah, that was my other thing.

Rachel Cruze (61:03)

Cash flow. The couch. Yep.

Dr. John Deloney (61:04)

You have a 10 month old, but buy nice stuff, please.

Rachel Cruze (61:07)

Get a gross. Like don't get a. I say a gross one. I mean, it can be new. It doesn't have to be old and used and gross. A new couch, but cash flow it

Caller (61:21)

out of our monthly income.

Dr. John Deloney (61:22)

Yes.

Rachel Cruze (61:23)

And a cheap couch. That's how I was trying to say cheap. Cheap.

Caller (61:28)

Okay. We wouldn't go expensive. We're a military family. Things get broken with every move. We're pretty.

Caller (61:35)

We're.

Caller (61:36)

We're pretty basic when it comes to our furniture.

Dr. John Deloney (61:38)

Get a couch if you have to get a couch. Get one that you'll leave when you move. Just leave it.

Caller (61:44)

We can do that. Yeah. Okay, well.

Rachel Cruze (61:46)

And Tiffany, you didn't call about this, but you guys have $25,000 in savings? Is that what you said?

Caller (61:52)

Yeah, we have a $25,000 emergency fund. All total, like investments between my IRA mutual.

Rachel Cruze (62:02)

How much is on the camper? How much is left on the trailer?

Caller (62:06)

30.

Dr. John Deloney (62:07)

Pay it off today.

Caller (62:08)

Pay it off.

Rachel Cruze (62:08)

She can't. They have 25,000.

Dr. John Deloney (62:10)

They're close.

Caller (62:12)

I know.

Rachel Cruze (62:13)

Yeah, go ahead and get.

Caller (62:14)

The only reason we have that is because of the nature of my husband's job in the Air Force. It's rather dangerous. So it makes me feel much more secure to have that in the event of something. The knock at the door.

Dr. John Deloney (62:33)

Yeah, I get that.

Rachel Cruze (62:34)

Does he have life insurance? You guys have life insurance?

Caller (62:38)

We have it through the military. Right before he was leaving on deployment. That's the other thing. He's currently deployed, so I'm trying to figure all of this out. But right before he left for deployment is when we were going to start going through Xander and getting quotes and all of that stuff. We just pre deployment didn't have time to get that added on there.

Rachel Cruze (63:01)

Yeah, I want you guys to do that ASAP and on YouTube. Tibby, if something happened to you and you guys need 10 to 12 times your annual income, sometimes with people that have insurance through their companies or through the military, it's not enough. And so get term life. Check out our friends at Zander Insurance because they're an insurance broker that actually shop all different companies to get you the lowest rate. So you guys. Yeah. Be looking at that for real though, because I understand the safety net of wanting that money. That makes total sense. But also if you knew that other aspects were being taken care of financially, you would be able to use cash today to help you guys in your present situation get along further faster to wealth building, which would be paying off this debt. So you guys consider that, look at the life insurance and, and if there's, if there's enough, I would, I would get rid of this. You're paying payments on something in interest that's going down in value. So getting rid of that debt is going to be huge for you guys.

Dave Ramsey (64:14)

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Dr. John Deloney (65:12)

$25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile unlimited plan.

Rachel Cruze (65:33)

We wish we could get to every call here on the Ramsey show, but we can. So if you have a money question though, we have an answer for your situation. So you can go to our website and use Ask Ramsey. So Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool and it's built and trained on proven money principles that we've been talking about. I mean this whole system that they've built has, I mean every answer in there is from the past couple years of shows, all of our books, articles, I mean anything and everything Ramsey has put out content wise is in there. And it's wild how personalized it can get because it can, it will remember you and your situation, but you can put in specific numbers, all of it and it will spit out an answer like you have called the Ramsey Show. So get your question answered today@ramseysolutions.com at the Ask Ramsey tool. So you make sure to check it out or if you are listening on podcasts or YouTube. We'll put a link below. All right, let's head to Bill in Seattle. Hi, Bill. Welcome to the show.

Caller (66:33)

Hi.

Rachel Cruze (66:34)

Hello. How are you today?

Caller (66:37)

I'm doing good. How are you guys?

Rachel Cruze (66:38)

We are doing great. How can we help?

Caller (66:41)

So my question to you guys is whether I should continue moving forward with getting engaged with my girlfriend, you know, even though I see her as kind of being financially irresponsible.

Dr. John Deloney (66:58)

Run, Bill, run. No, no, I'm just playing.

Caller (67:02)

I'm playing.

Dr. John Deloney (67:04)

Tell us more. What. What does financially irresponsible mean?

Caller (67:09)

It means that she. She still kind of nickels and dimes us to death. So when it comes to those small expenses like eating out and getting a cup of coffee, I. I think little consideration on her part in terms of how those expenses can accumulate over time. And I guess the other big thing too is, you know, not a steady source of income from her hand. So that when we have big expenses like our animal vet appointments, you know, it usually ends up me sharing the financial burden more so. So are y'.

Rachel Cruze (67:54)

All.

Dr. John Deloney (67:54)

Are y' all living together?

Caller (67:57)

Yes. Okay, so we are. Yeah, I'm. That's. So this is kind of all about is I'm a 30 year old living in my girlfriend's parents basement.

Dr. John Deloney (68:06)

Oh, there's that. Okay, cool. Lead with. Lead with that next time, brother.

Rachel Cruze (68:12)

Hell.

Dr. John Deloney (68:12)

All right, so how much of this. It's just. Listen, it's just two dudes. Rachel happens to be here, and like a couple of million people. People just listen in. Okay, how much of this is. You've got to see up close. I don't know if this is a person I want to spend the rest of my life with, because here's the thing. I skipped a final exam to run across campus because I knew that's a place that my girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, would be walking across campus at a certain point time. Right. So if it was really that she spent too much on cups of coffee and didn't work very often and you were head over heels, this was your person. You'd be calling us in 10 years saying she won't get a job and she spent y' all into the poor house, what else is going on that's making you start to question this thing?

Caller (69:09)

Well, we. We've been together for such a long time, and I think we've had our ups and downs, but eventually I feel like recently in my life I've gone through a stage of maturity, and that certainly means financial maturity. And I Think that is what I have yet to see from her, especially in recent times. And, and I know if I want to take that next step with her, that is something that we certainly have to agree.

Dr. John Deloney (69:44)

How old is she?

Caller (69:46)

She is 28.

Rachel Cruze (69:47)

Okay, so it's more of a maturity over on who she is. But what you're seeing, what's coming out is the money side too.

Caller (69:55)

Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (69:55)

And he, he, here's. Oh man, this is a double edged sword. All right, brother. And Rachel, tell me, knock me off my pedestal like you're so good at doing.

Rachel Cruze (70:02)

Rachel would love to.

Dr. John Deloney (70:03)

John, my concern here is a double edged sword. One you have somebody who, who isn't working is. Seems to be content living at home with her parents, whatever, and never has any money and continues to rack up expenses. There's that. My, honestly, my bigger concern right now is you are starting to feel like you are better than her. And that is. Man, that is the. You're tilling the soil to plant the seeds for contempt. And contempt is one of the Gottman's four horsemen that will just destroy your relationship. It's you sitting up in the lifeguard tower of a local pool looking down on. Instead of sitting with her and saying, hey, what's our plan to get out of your parents basement? Right. What's your financial future? What. What job are you going to have? How are we, what kind of future do we want to build together? And if she won't participate in that? Yeah, you've got, you've got bigger issues.

Rachel Cruze (71:01)

Yeah. Have y' all had conversations, Bill, about it?

Caller (71:04)

We recently, three weeks ago, tried to have a completely clean slate where we, you know, push behind us in the past and we just look forward and we don't bring up anything that happened in the past. And it's. It seems like I'm, I'm getting that sense of financial urgency from her. But then, then there's some still those moments where again, she, you know, has a small unnecessary expense or just yesterday, if I may say, she had spent approximately $60 to get us concert tickets. And it's still those things that occur that prevent me from, you know, giving her my full trust, financially speaking.

Dr. John Deloney (71:53)

Well, it's tough because y' all aren't married. And so I wouldn't tell you to make a budget together because y' all are just boyfriend and girlfriend living in her parents basement. Right. Like if y' all were married, if y' all were engaged and y' all were starting to think through, we're gonna make a budget together and we're Gonna high five each other and stick to this budget that we've made. And then she was like, look out. Surprise concert tickets. Then yeah, you'd have.

Rachel Cruze (72:14)

You've broken something that you've said together. Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (72:16)

But if y' all are just dating and you've been dating a long time and you're just sitting in your in law, I mean in your girlfriend's parents basement saying like hey, we need to get our stuff together. And she's like, yeah, yeah.

Rachel Cruze (72:27)

I mean I've created no situation where she has to. Right. And I hear what you're saying, Bill. I do hear. I wish she had this self, you know, motivation to.

Caller (72:38)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruze (72:40)

Can she keep a job? Like what's the job situation?

Caller (72:44)

So I have two jobs. I work full time at a Target and part time as a math tutor at math museum and I work approximately 40 to 55 hours a week. And I'd say it brings me in approximately 3,500 to 4,000amonth.

Rachel Cruze (72:57)

And what does she do?

Caller (72:59)

So she just has side gigs. She does a lot of pet sitting. It's been picking up a little bit because it's, it's springtime and summertime and people want to travel. The other thing I guess too is she does have her mom who owns a lice removal service company and she has lots of experience with doing that. And that's actually a very nice job because they get a lot.

Dr. John Deloney (73:25)

But she won't work. She won't work it though.

Rachel Cruze (73:28)

Well. And that's the.

Caller (73:30)

That. Yes.

Rachel Cruze (73:30)

Okay. Okay. Yes. So I can feel okay, Bill. But you're in the same. You're a little bit. I'm gonna group. Y' all all in the same situation. You're both living with at her parents house. I hear you trying. You're at. He's turned a corner.

Dr. John Deloney (73:45)

You have.

Rachel Cruze (73:45)

And he's like, I want to do something with my life, create financial stability. And she's pet sitting. Which again, nothing's wrong with pet sitting. But that's for a full time career if she was doing it six hours a week.

Dr. John Deloney (73:56)

Not for a 28 year old.

Rachel Cruze (73:57)

Not for a 28 year old. Right. And it could be a great side gig. But, but like the you. I. I do see the lack of initiation on her side and that is very concerning. Yes, that's concerning.

Dr. John Deloney (74:07)

So I think it's concerning that her mom still speaks into Yalls life.

Caller (74:13)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (74:14)

So here's the thing. The only thing you can control is you. If I, if you were my son in this exact situation, I would tell you, go Get a one bedroom apartment today.

Rachel Cruze (74:24)

Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (74:27)

I want you to have skin in the game of your life and you're not gonna, you're not gonna accumulate wealth as much as you want, whatever. And then say we're not breaking up but I need to get out of underneath your mom and dad as my parents and I need to start creating a life as me as a 30 year old man.

Rachel Cruze (74:46)

Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (74:46)

And then you can see with clear eyes is she want to join your team till death do you part or she want to live under her mommy's roof pet sitting a few months out of the year.

Rachel Cruze (74:57)

Right, that's what I was gonna say. John. Dude, we wrapped it up.

Dr. John Deloney (75:01)

High five.

Rachel Cruze (75:02)

Seriously? Yes. It's going to expose and show more of the truth. Bill, when you are on your own and you have the blinders on for your life, does she enter it or does she exit it?

Dr. John Deloney (75:10)

And you make your budget for your money.

Caller (75:17)

Sam Ramsey show Question of the day

Rachel Cruze (75:44)

is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've lost control of your private student loan payments, your financial progress has stalled out. But why? Refi helps borrowers explore refinancing options with payments built around their real life situations. So to learn more go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

Dr. John Deloney (76:10)

All right, today's question comes from Andy in Kansas. Andy writes, my wife says I'm taking the baby steps too seriously. Andy, there's no such thing.

Caller (76:21)

All right.

Dr. John Deloney (76:23)

Because I'm very focused on paying off our debt using the snowball method. She wants to pay off debt but would like us to save for a vacation and build a larger emergency fund at the same time. We have the thousand dollar starter emergency fund but she wants to increase that amount, slow down a bit and not be so intense about paying off debt. I don't want to tension between us but at the same time I really want to stay focused on becoming debt free. How can we stay united as a couple while making progress towards our financial goals? This has to be the number one

Rachel Cruze (76:53)

question we get that one person is like all in, all in. And the other's like one person's like,

Dr. John Deloney (76:59)

dude, take a few Xanax and relax. Yes, right?

Rachel Cruze (77:01)

Yes, totally. Yeah. And I think for me it's, it's one of those gives and take. Gives, take, give and take. Gives and takes, give and takes in marriage. Because there is, there's naturally going to be the free spirit. The one that I do think has the capacity to handle Some of maybe the money stress a little bit more. It's just whatever it is, right? Where there's the one that's like, we gotta get out of this. The urgency is so big. And maybe I wouldn't put nerd free spirit on those specifically, but that tends to be the personality of the couples we see. But what we find overall are the couples who win financially, and I mean win, like, pay off their home, have a million dollars in their retirement, all of it. They are not only shooting for the same goal, but they're for each other in the process. Meaning, if I see that this is so important to him, I know it's important, and I want to get there. But, man, he wants to, like, you know, go all out. Okay, for a year. Like, we'll do it. I can give up a vacation for a year, and I can go in and almost in a way of loving him, whatever, of what he is desiring and wanting at the speed, you know, that vice versa to the wife, right. If she wants her debt free, she's like, yeah, she's probably gonna spend more on a vacation. And he's like, okay, we have the money for it. We're not being irresponsible. But I wouldn't, I would spend it somewhere else. But for her right now, okay, let's just do it, because we can. Does that make sense?

Dr. John Deloney (78:25)

Like, that is my exact house. I, if I owe somebody money, I don't sleep. Sleep. I, I, I have anxiety. Like, it drives me crazy. My wife could have a mortgage and a car payment, and she wouldn't lose sleep over it. She didn't like it, but she, she sleep just fine. I have a plan. And whatever. Her loving me. Well, when we were buying a house and we were able to put a big chunk down, we're gonna take a mortgage on a little bit of it. We sat down and I said, okay, for this long, it's gonna cost me. Can we pay this thing like this? And she said, yes. And when this thing's paid off, we're going to take a silly vacation. And I was like, I would never spend that on a vacation. All in, right? And so it's us loving each other. Well, yep. But, Andy, what that required, though, was that conversation that me and my wife had was not a spreadsheet conversation. It was, hey, here's what this does to me. And she's like, I love you more than any other thing I could have. Yes, I'm all in. And life without a vacation for me. I, like, I, I don't like that. And I'm like, I love you more than any of this. Like, right, so we'll do that, too. This is about talking about the thing beneath the thing, which is sitting down and saying, here's what the debt is doing to me. It's making me feel like a failure as a dad, as a husband. It scares me about our future. The economy's bananas right now. AI's got to kill us all. Like, all those. Say those things out loud and then come up with a plan together. I don't think you're taking the baby steps too seriously, Andy, but I do think you're taking them on all by yourself. And that's going to divide your marriage up. And so I think sitting down and having the convers, the thing beneath the thing. And if you're with a partner that's like, I don't care what you care about. We're having a vacation. Your marriage has bigger issues. That's right. Because I promise you, that's not just showing up there, it's showing up in other places, too.

Rachel Cruze (80:18)

Well, and that's it, too. I'm like, and we say it all the time that so many calls we get about money issues. They're not really money issues. It's marriage issues. You really do. It is. Because that's who we are as people to our core. Right. Our soulful, spiritual people. Like, that's what the complete side of us is. And all this other stuff of life that we've built on top of it, money, you know, all this other stuff, it's all built on top of that. And the problem is you only get to that layer if you're like, here's the spreadsheets and here's how much we could make. Make with the percentage that we're saving here versus the market. And all that's fine. Like, that's true. Right? Like, you can look at the math and. Absolutely. And some people are like, great, check it off. That's what I needed to see. But for most people, especially from the quality of a marriage perspective, it is getting to understanding what is happening with my spouse. And when you do and you have those conversations, you get to know your spouse.

Dr. John Deloney (81:12)

Right.

Rachel Cruze (81:12)

On a deeper way. Right.

Dr. John Deloney (81:13)

There's nothing greater than seeing and knowing and learning about your spouse. By the way, you're. You're going to be married to 15 or 20 different versions of your spouse over the course of your marriage. So you're always going to be in an act of getting to know and then celebrating the crap out of them. And Celebrating your spouse sometimes is we're going to do without a vacation for two years because we're going to get this thing cleaned up and then we're going to be able to go on whatever stupid vacations we want to go on for, for from now until forever if we just make the sacrifice. But I really want to stay focused on becoming debt free. Andy writes, tell her why. Tell her what's going on in your spirit, in the middle of your chest. Have that conversation.

Rachel Cruze (81:51)

And also, this isn't spouses entertaining or having to puff up a spouse on some crazy thing. Right. Getting out of debt, which I guess some people would say is crazy. There are things in life that are like, yeah, that's worth fighting for because that really does cause stress. Right. You could put money stuff in there, health stuff. Of course, you know, it's not like, oh gosh, I think, think which I can go conspiracy. But if you're like, okay, yeah, all the cell phones are going down tomorrow. We gotta like get bug out back. Right. Like it's not a lot. It's not like not factual. Right. These are things that are like actually factually affecting people.

Dr. John Deloney (82:23)

Correct.

Rachel Cruze (82:24)

Does that make sense?

Dr. John Deloney (82:24)

Yes, totally.

Rachel Cruze (82:25)

You can put other elements, but money is one of those things that affects people. So you're, so I'm saying, Andy, you're not being crazy or like out of this world. Like, oh my gosh, she's having to like coddle something that's bizarre and weird and like, oh gosh, it's actually going to create a lot of health in you and in your marriage when money is not a factor because you guys have control over it. All right, let's hope the cell phones don't go down tomorrow, but if they do, we have Julie in Los Angeles. I don't know what you do in Los Angeles if all the cell phones went down, but. Hey, Julie, how are you?

Caller (82:57)

I'm good, Good.

Rachel Cruze (82:58)

How can we help you today?

Caller (83:01)

I have a question. First off, I am a debt snowball graduate. My husband and I from a long time ago, but widow and I'm 61. I'm looking to retire at 62, which is about a year away. And I want to know I'm going to move out of this taxable state into a non tax state. And I want to know based on what assets that I have, how much house can I afford and how should I buy it? You know, mortgage, cash, what should I do?

Rachel Cruze (83:33)

Okay, how much will you have when you sell the house?

Caller (83:36)

I don't own one right now. I'm going to retire and then I'm going to move. I want to know how much house I can afford to buy.

Rachel Cruze (83:44)

Okay. How much, how much money do you have saved in retirement?

Caller (83:50)

I have about $3 million in investments.

Rachel Cruze (83:54)

Okay.

Caller (83:55)

And another million probably in 401k.

Rachel Cruze (83:58)

Okay, perfect. Do you know how much just living expenses for you is a month? How much you would probably spend to

Caller (84:06)

live comfortably for you right now, working and everything? I'm relatively frugal. Like I said, I'm a graduate from the debt snowball school.

Rachel Cruze (84:14)

Yeah, you've done it. That's great.

Caller (84:16)

And so what I would, what I

Rachel Cruze (84:19)

would do, Julie, honestly, is I would sit down with a smartvestor pro. If you go to ramseysolutions.com, you can find one in your area because I would want you to map out and see, okay, if I had to live off of the $4 million, how much less could I live off of in order to own a home? Right out? Right. So if you took half a million and bought something with that, you know, you'd have 3.5 million left. How much per year? Which would you. Would you need to see growth for you to live off of, which I think would be plenty.

Dr. John Deloney (84:50)

Plenty.

Rachel Cruze (84:50)

So then you could up it and say, what if I bought a million dollar, Do I need a million dollars? So you're going to actually be able to run some numbers, numbers out in calculations to see actually the money that you have to withdraw to live off of. How much would you need? And if you want to leave any to the next generation as well. So, so I would get with the smartvestor pro and run those numbers, but I would assume anywhere from a 400 to a 500,000.

Dr. John Deloney (85:14)

Easy peasy.

Rachel Cruze (85:15)

You're going to be great. And you can pay cash for it, which is awesome. Julie. Well done.

Caller (85:21)

Foreign.

Rachel Cruze (85:34)

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. In the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. And we're taking your calls. The lines are open at 888-820-55225. All right, we're gonna go to John in Houston, Texas, H Town.

Dr. John Deloney (85:51)

What's up, John?

Caller (85:53)

Hey, what's going on, y'? All?

Rachel Cruze (85:55)

Hi. We're doing great. How can we help today?

Caller (85:58)

So I am wanting for me and my wife's household income to equal $100,000 a year by the end of 2027. I'm currently halfway there and make 51,000. But she refuses to work. And when she does work and then quits, she Blames it on being bipolar and having anxiety. I'm wondering what I should do to push her to start working and keeping her job.

Dr. John Deloney (86:22)

Does she have diagnosed bipolar disorder?

Caller (86:26)

She does.

Dr. John Deloney (86:27)

Okay. Is she manage it well? Does she take her meds?

Caller (86:31)

She takes her meds, but as far as managing it, probably not.

Rachel Cruze (86:40)

What does that mean? Sorry, what is that? What would that mean? So she's not managing it well, but she is.

Dr. John Deloney (86:44)

I've known some amazing. Some folks with bipolar one that are amazing folks, but they know I take my medication every day for the rest of my life. And for folks with. Especially with. With BP, bipolar 1, it's hard because you feel so good. It's easy to feel like, oh, I'm all good now, and you got to take your meds. But also you have to be intentional about your exercise, you have to be intentional about your sleep. You have to be intentional about relationships, the whole thing. And that's what I mean by managing it.

Rachel Cruze (87:11)

Got it.

Caller (87:12)

Got it.

Dr. John Deloney (87:12)

And so she doesn't do that. Is that right?

Caller (87:15)

No.

Dr. John Deloney (87:16)

Okay. Is she still seeing a. A counselor?

Caller (87:20)

Yeah, she. We actually have a schedule for Thursday.

Dr. John Deloney (87:23)

Okay. I. Is this your first time to go with her?

Caller (87:28)

This is. This will be my second time.

Dr. John Deloney (87:30)

Okay. I want you to lead with this question. Okay.

Caller (87:34)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (87:34)

We have some household financial needs.

Caller (87:36)

Needs.

Dr. John Deloney (87:37)

And I see needs. I see abilities in my wife that she doesn't see for herself. How can I love her through the transition of being scared of your own body, which having bipolar one is as they've ex. I've had people explain it to me. It's like you're being betrayed by your own body. Right. Some things feel so amazing at them. Some things feel like the end of time, and neither of those things are right. And so how can I love her through this transition position?

Caller (88:04)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (88:05)

And that's going to signal to your wife, I'm on your team, and things have to change in our home. And it's going to signal to the therapist, oh, this woman has support. Not at the lecturing level, but at the soul level. I'm with her. How can I love her? Well, during this time, as she's going to begin managing this thing.

Caller (88:27)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (88:28)

Right. And then if she's in a. In a positive season right now, if she's in, like, what I call not a man state or a depressive state, but if she's doing pretty well right now, this is a great conversation to lay out. Like, how can I love you when things get pretty. When you get pretty ramped up, and how can I love you and think when you get pretty ramped down and go ahead and come up with a game plan now so that when those, when those things hit, hopefully the, the medication and the life management, all that level some of that out. But when those things hit, you already have a roadmap. Trying to ask somebody during a manic phase, how can I love you? That's a, that's not helpful. Right. You've been there. Right. And when somebody's can't get out of bed, like, it's hard to be like, well, how can I love you today? And so. But getting that when you're in a good season, that's amazing. And it might be, it might be that the hundred thousand dollar number you have in your head, y' all may never get there. It might be 75 and that'll be okay. We have to then reimagine what our life's gonna look like and that's gonna be okay too, right?

Caller (89:32)

Yeah. I put the $100,000 mark because we're actually $30,000 in debt.

Dr. John Deloney (89:37)

Okay. And that's hard to pay off. Only making 51 grand. Right?

Caller (89:41)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (89:42)

Yeah. Does she have her spending under control?

Caller (89:48)

No.

Dr. John Deloney (89:48)

Okay. That might be the front end of this conversation, which is during manic phases especially we. I hear that a lot that folks just get to spending and spending and spending. So. So when I know I'm heading into a manic phase, I'm going to put my debit card in a lockbox. And you own the. We have a freeze on your credit report. And you own the passcode to Amazon Prime. Right. There's just some low level basic things that I've seen couples do that work great for the, for those seasons. And you might have to weather a storm. Right. She might come after you for that code or that password. But we're going to hold firm in those seasons. Seasons.

Caller (90:25)

Okay.

Rachel Cruze (90:26)

How long have you guys been married? John,

Caller (90:30)

we're going on three years.

Rachel Cruze (90:32)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (90:33)

Three years.

Rachel Cruze (90:33)

So. Still learning how to do this. Well, I'm glad you guys have a good, a good counselor.

Dr. John Deloney (90:38)

And can I say this? This doesn't get talked about very much. This is exhausting for you too, right? It's okay for you to feel that way. All also. Okay. I know she's the one with a diagnosis. I know she's the one struggling inside of her own skin. Totally get that. And you love her to the moon and back. Right. And it's frustrating for you too, to try to build some sort of secure life for both of you. That's hard. And so you get to be. I want to give you permission to be frustrated, too. Okay.

Rachel Cruze (91:12)

John, did you. Were you aware of everything before you guys got married?

Caller (91:15)

Married, so actually I had a couple. I had one debt of my own, and then when we got married, we financed a car, and then the rest is just. If anything were to happen. If anything happened, she would just panic and then just get a loan for 500 or a thousand dollars.

Rachel Cruze (91:38)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (91:38)

Yeah. And so that's where. Putting a freeze on her credit, y', all, you. You don't do that for her, but y' all do that together. That in those moments when she panics, it. It. There's a stop gap there. Right. And we're going to put as many hurdles as possible in front of us so that we, together, don't make bad decisions for us.

Caller (91:57)

Okay.

Rachel Cruze (91:59)

Awesome.

Dr. John Deloney (91:59)

Is that cool? Thanks for the call, brother.

Rachel Cruze (92:00)

Yeah, thanks, John.

Dr. John Deloney (92:01)

Thanks for loving her. Well while she's struggling.

Rachel Cruze (92:03)

For sure. Yeah. And that. That is difficult. And I think, you know, and even if someone is not, you know, diagnosed with something like that, there is. Is this realization of, okay, I can only do so much on my end. You know, we were talking about spouses and bringing them on board. Right. And working as a team together. But we have found when you create stop. Gaps together with things like spending, when. Especially if you see a pattern is so helpful. It is so helpful because you don't realize the ease at which debt can just come into your life or spending can just happen.

Dr. John Deloney (92:41)

You can have a bet if you. If I. I've known people with bipolar one that have one bad weekend and they're. I'm talking 10 or 20 years worth of digging himself out of this hole.

Rachel Cruze (92:53)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (92:53)

Right. You can go buy a car and get a $10,000 loan and then get two credit cards and burn through them all in a weekend now.

Rachel Cruze (93:00)

Right, Right.

Dr. John Deloney (93:00)

And what a nightmare that is to untangle. Totally. It's knowing yourself well enough to know and being honest with yourself enough to. No, I. My body gets set on fire from the inside out. I panic. I do X, Y, and Z. I need to put some hurdles in my life. Will you help me?

Rachel Cruze (93:18)

And from your experience, not her specifically, but that situation, she would. She could have the ability to have that restaurant thought. And when she's in a good state.

Dr. John Deloney (93:25)

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's got to expect she's going to come. She's going to come for blood when she's not doing well. And that's part of loving somebody well when they're struggling. Right?

Rachel Cruze (93:33)

Yes. With that.

Dr. John Deloney (93:34)

And that's okay. That's part of it.

Caller (93:36)

It's part of it.

Rachel Cruze (93:37)

Well, John, we're so glad you called in. I hope that's helpful. We're, we're cheering you guys on. Call us back if you need any.

Dave Ramsey (94:18)

Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Rachel Cruze (95:11)

Up next, we have Tori in Huntsville, Alabama. Hi, Tori, welcome to the show.

Caller (95:17)

Hi. Thank you.

Rachel Cruze (95:20)

Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

Caller (95:24)

So I am currently in baby step number two. I currently work for a financial firm and what I do is I deal with equity. And although I am currently paying off my debt, there is a test more so like the certifications for equity professionals that you can take. I mean, for me it would significantly increase my income, but it is $2,000. So my question for you is, although

Caller (95:53)

I'm still paying off debt, would it

Caller (95:56)

be okay to, you know, spend that money to take this test and, you know, more than likely increase the income or should I just wait and try to finish off paying? Because right now if I stick to my plan, I should be done and completely out of debt next year.

Rachel Cruze (96:13)

Okay, Tori, what are you making now? And if you had the certification, what would you be making? Making?

Caller (96:19)

Okay, so I am currently at 68.

Rachel Cruze (96:22)

Okay, five.

Caller (96:24)

But minimum on average about 90 with the certification.

Rachel Cruze (96:29)

Oh, yeah, I would, I would.

Dr. John Deloney (96:32)

Tori, I would.

Rachel Cruze (96:33)

Tori. Yes, because it's pretty guaranteed, right? It's not like you're getting an MBA and you hope you'll get a higher paying job somewhere. It's a pretty like one for one, right?

Caller (96:40)

If I didn't get the 90 majority, even just even competitors with my own company. Company are paying at the very minimum for an east, like for the actual, the certified equity professional certification.

Rachel Cruze (96:53)

Yep.

Caller (96:53)

Still at 85 minimum for most companies. That's the lowest I've seen it.

Rachel Cruze (96:57)

100.

Caller (96:58)

Yes.

Rachel Cruze (96:59)

And are you pretty confident?

Caller (97:01)

I'm confident.

Rachel Cruze (97:02)

You can take that. You'll take that. When you take it, you think you'll pass, you're gonna pass or you have to take it like five times.

Caller (97:08)

Do you know No, I think I'll pass. I've been actually preparing for it. I've been thinking about it for the past year and a half.

Rachel Cruze (97:16)

Oh, my God. Heck, yeah. I'm like, that's, like, a $20,000 increase.

Dr. John Deloney (97:22)

How many months will it take you to save up to pay for this test?

Caller (97:27)

Honestly, I just recently picked up a second job, so I honestly can have

Caller (97:33)

this saved up within the next two months.

Dr. John Deloney (97:34)

You're a baller. Do it. Do it.

Caller (97:37)

Yes. Also because I just paid off my car, so then that freed up for

Caller (97:41)

extra $500 a month, so I'm confident

Caller (97:43)

I can have this done.

Dr. John Deloney (97:45)

Yeah, do it. Do it.

Rachel Cruze (97:47)

Yeah.

Caller (97:47)

And I don't know. I know, like, I've heard on you guys show where, like, you said, like,

Caller (97:51)

when you're paying off debt to, like, stop certain things.

Caller (97:54)

So, like, I did stop part of my 401k investments. I didn't drop it all the way down. I had it at 10%. I'm now doing 6% just so that I can keep my match.

Dr. John Deloney (98:08)

Boom.

Rachel Cruze (98:09)

Tori, for 12 months, pause it and throw that money at your debt.

Dr. John Deloney (98:14)

Just be done. You're so close.

Rachel Cruze (98:16)

Just for 12 months. I know.

Caller (98:18)

22,000 left in student loans, and then I have about 4,200 left in credit cards. But I got a plan. Almost done. I'll have it paid, literally, in the next month.

Caller (98:31)

The next card was a secured card,

Caller (98:33)

so actually, I plan to close it anyway.

Rachel Cruze (98:35)

Good.

Caller (98:36)

I can throw that at the next day.

Rachel Cruze (98:37)

Good. Yes. It's the snowball effect. You're doing it.

Dr. John Deloney (98:40)

You're doing it.

Rachel Cruze (98:41)

Tori, we're so. I'm so proud of you, girl. That's amazing. You're doing incredible. You're doing absolutely incredible. And the research of figuring out, okay, I can get a $2,000 certification for a $20,000 raise. That's some good ROI right there, Tori. Like, yes.

Dr. John Deloney (98:58)

And. And everybody listening. Here's what we're not saying.

Caller (99:00)

What? You.

Dr. John Deloney (99:01)

You said it.

Rachel Cruze (99:01)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (99:02)

This isn't. I'm going to pause the baby steps. I owe 100 grand from undergrad. I'm going to go ahead and take out a $200,000 loan to get a MBA. And I hope that that moves me up or. Or I'm a teacher, and I want to go back to school, get a master's degree, and I hope this other district hired me. This is somebody in a job who has a. Needs a credential to move up in this job. She's already crushing it in her company. And It's.

Rachel Cruze (99:25)

And it's $2,000.

Dr. John Deloney (99:26)

2,000 bucks? Yeah.

Rachel Cruze (99:27)

Yes. This is a no brainer. So, Tori, you're awesome.

Dr. John Deloney (99:30)

Oh, get it.

Rachel Cruze (99:31)

I love it. Love it. All right, let's go to San Diego and we have Chris on the line. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show.

Caller (99:37)

Hello.

Caller (99:38)

It's a pleasure to talk to you guys.

Rachel Cruze (99:40)

Yes, well, thanks for calling in. How can we help?

Caller (99:42)

Yeah, so my wife and I got married six months ago and we've been living in an apartment in San Diego. And her in law, or my in laws, her parents are offering to build an extension onto their home so that we can move in and save money. But we would be paying for the construction of the extension to their home.

Rachel Cruze (100:03)

Oh, that's great.

Dr. John Deloney (100:06)

Hey, Chris, I got a good idea. Give me a milk million to increase my home. Yeah. To increase my home value and then I'll let you. I'll let you live there.

Rachel Cruze (100:16)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (100:16)

No, I would not do this.

Rachel Cruze (100:17)

No, no.

Caller (100:20)

But it's interesting though because like, financially

Caller (100:23)

we could do it.

Dr. John Deloney (100:24)

I know it's not interesting though, because you'll be living in your. In your in laws house.

Rachel Cruze (100:28)

Yes. And then actually for resale value, in law suites are actually not that great because it takes a very specific buyer to even want it. So even for your in laws, if your in laws called and said we want to build on, on, I would be like, I probably wouldn't. I think they're fine. No, Kris, you guys need to go and live your lives genuinely. Because what happens, People get trapped in these situations and then you take out the, the construction loan or whatever it is and you're trying to pay it and then something happens and you want to move to Arizona because you got this insane job. And it's like, we can't because we're stuck here because we promised this. And it's like you start to have all these strings attached and you guys can, you can't just fly and be free, like just. Yes. And have a driveway that's just yours, not parking with your in laws. You know what I mean?

Dr. John Deloney (101:13)

If they said, hey, we're going to do this anyway and we will let y' all live here rent free for

Rachel Cruze (101:18)

a year or two or whatever.

Dr. John Deloney (101:19)

Do that all day long. But y', all, you need to build

Rachel Cruze (101:22)

your own equity too in your own place.

Dr. John Deloney (101:24)

Rachel's call out is really important. The first you're going to put down $350,000 on this thing. You're going to cash flow it and then you're going to get the job of a lifetime in Texas and You're going to be like, wow, there's no state income tax. What do we do? And you're gonna have to take this and then that money is sunk into your in laws house. And I, I just wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it.

Caller (101:45)

Okay.

Rachel Cruze (101:46)

Did we, did we convince you? What do you think? Do you want to go? Do you want to live at your in laws?

Caller (101:52)

You know, I have my own thought.

Dr. John Deloney (101:54)

You do?

Caller (101:54)

Yeah.

Rachel Cruze (101:56)

What are your thoughts? You've heard ours. What's your.

Caller (101:59)

Well, it's further in San Diego from my job. And in terms of dollars, more dollars would be going out per month even though it's the same amount, if that makes sense.

Rachel Cruze (102:11)

Wait, say it again. Say that.

Caller (102:12)

So we're. The amount that we're able to save right now is how much we'd be putting towards the loan. But it ties up our money and if we're ready to move out in our own place in five years.

Rachel Cruze (102:23)

Oh, yeah.

Caller (102:24)

I think it would tie us down even more versus saving the same amount in the same amount of time. Time and having that money is liquid, correct?

Dr. John Deloney (102:33)

Yes. You are thinking 100%.

Rachel Cruze (102:34)

What's your, what's your wife saying?

Dr. John Deloney (102:36)

I guarantee you I know what she says.

Caller (102:39)

We haven't had a ton of time to talk about it recently, but I think we're kind of on the same page. I've been sharing my thoughts with her and she's like, yeah, like that totally makes sense. And then we're bouncing it off her parents and kind of having a mutual

Caller (102:53)

discussion, but it's all very loose right now.

Dr. John Deloney (102:55)

Okay, I want to say something crazy. Don't have a mutual discussion with her parents. You and your wife have a discussion and then you announce what your decision is.

Rachel Cruze (103:03)

Wow.

Dr. John Deloney (103:03)

Because I don't want them negotiating with you on y' all helping increase the. The resale value of their home. Y' all make a decision and then you say, hey, thank you so, so much for the offer. We're going to keep. We want to stay here in our apartment and we're going to build up our savings so that we can get our own place. End of conversation's over.

Caller (103:27)

Yeah, that makes it nice and easy.

Dr. John Deloney (103:29)

Now they probably have a go ahead

Rachel Cruze (103:30)

wasn't say their hearts may be in a great spot.

Caller (103:32)

They.

Rachel Cruze (103:32)

I think in some situations like this they genuinely. Of course we're helping and this will be so great.

Dr. John Deloney (103:38)

One day we'll flip. We'll move to the. We'll move to the in law suite and we'll give the house to Them, I mean, I'm telling you, that's what

Rachel Cruze (103:45)

I bet they're thinking, that they can get the house and we'll downsize later

Dr. John Deloney (103:48)

or no, we'll move to the in law suite and they'll keep the house and then we can be around the grandkids. They've got a whole idea worked out and it's, I, I don't fault them for a second for coming up with this idea. It's a great plan. And housing in San Diego's, I don't know, one bedroom apartments, $8 billion. I get it.

Caller (104:03)

Right?

Dr. John Deloney (104:04)

I totally get it.

Rachel Cruze (104:04)

And to your point, if they had built it and it was there, like we had some friends and their parents had like a small home out like by a pool and they lived there for about two to three years rent free, everything and it was great. And then they saved up the money, they went and put a down, down payment, moved into a home. It was wonderful because it was already there. It was part of the system. They had a good relationship, it was fine. And they actually created their savings goals. But Chris, if you're having to cash flow this into something that you can't take the equity out is that's not a smart investment. And I just think having some boundaries, your first six months of marriage, first couple years, I think it's good, have your own location, you guys figure out life together. But thanks for the call and yeah, congratulations on the new marriage.

Dave Ramsey (104:59)

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Rachel Cruze (105:47)

Buying or selling your home is a really big deal. And there's so much clickbait in the headlines out there and conflicting data that it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. And so we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So last month the average 15 year fixed rate mortgage had ticked up a bit to to 5.56% but it's still lower than 6% which is great. And if you're financially ready, a small increase like that shouldn't be able to hold you back. So again, this idea that just because prices, interest rates go up a little, down a little, all of it, if you are In a position to buy a home, you need to get into the market. Now, the median home prices went up to $415,000 last month, which is typical for the spring markets. Now there's more homes available or more buyers. Buyers are entering the market, so it is a great time to buy or sell. So to learn more about the housing market trends and to get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcasts or YouTube. All right, let's head to Riley in Memphis, Texas. Hi, Riley. Welcome to the show.

Caller (106:56)

Hey, how are you guys?

Rachel Cruze (106:58)

Hi. We're doing great. How can we you help?

Caller (107:00)

Okay, so I'm going to keep this brief. Me and my husband, we've been Ramsey people since getting married and have no debt. Aside from our house, however, my parents have been struggling financially for quite some time. And despite this, my mom will buy things for us. And it takes a huge toll on my husband and I. It makes us feel like we're contributing to their debt. So I was just wondering, how do I approach my mom about purchasing things for my family when they are in debt and can't afford it?

Rachel Cruze (107:27)

Yeah. What's she buying?

Caller (107:28)

Buying. So she'll buy stuff from our house. We're not. We just moved into our house, and we're not in a position to buy, like, things like curtains or rugs or things like that. And so she'll buy stuff like that. Or we just had a daughter as well, and so she'll buy, like, clothes and things for her.

Rachel Cruze (107:43)

And you're not asking her to. She's just showing up with stuff.

Caller (107:46)

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (107:48)

So here's a hard truth. You and your husband can't own her decisions.

Caller (107:56)

Yeah. Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (107:57)

You can. You can. You can sit down with her and say, mom, me and my husband really want to grind this thing out ourselves. And I'm so grateful for you always bringing us stuff and all that. Kind of like, what we really want is you just to come hang out with the new baby or come hang out with us. But really. And I know this sounds ridiculous, we want to grind it out ourselves.

Caller (108:19)

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (108:20)

You can't.

Caller (108:21)

When I was.

Caller (108:22)

Was.

Dr. John Deloney (108:22)

You can't do anything about. I guess if she shows up with it, she shows up with it, right?

Caller (108:27)

Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's what I was wondering, like, if it's something I need to change my mindset about, like, it's not my problem kind of thing, as bad as that sounds. But it does make us feel really guilty knowing the place that they're at, especially because we're doing a little bit better than they are.

Dr. John Deloney (108:43)

Yeah. I want to set you free from this. And it's not a one and done, but my friend Becky Kennedy, she's a psychologist in New York, she taught me this. And it, it. It's one of those. I had a before and after moment, and this is just a year or two ago. Okay. Do you think having curtains in your house, is that a violation of you and your husband's marital values?

Caller (109:09)

No.

Dr. John Deloney (109:09)

No. Do you think getting a gift, is that a violation of your marital values? Values?

Caller (109:15)

No.

Dr. John Deloney (109:15)

Okay. So guilt is actually a good thing. It's a thing that our body feels when we do something that violates our core values. What you're feeling is not guilt. You're trying to take your mom's situation and own it for her.

Caller (109:32)

Okay.

Dr. John Deloney (109:33)

You get what I'm saying? And that's not your cinder block to carry around all the time. Probably underneath the thing you think is guilt, I bet it's angry anger.

Caller (109:43)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (109:44)

I bet you're pissed off that they've. You grew up in that house. You know how what money stress feels like. And she's now doing it to y'. All.

Caller (109:53)

Yeah.

Caller (109:53)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (109:54)

And so it's, it's, it's what you're feeling, I don't think is guilt. I think you're. You're mad. I think you're frustrated, like, get your house in order. Mom and dad, Right?

Caller (110:03)

Yeah. And I think a lot of that comes from. We actually, a few months ago, we were doing really, really well financially. On. The parents are at their worst, and we gave them. Them a gift, a money gift, in hopes that it would be kind of a wake up call.

Dr. John Deloney (110:18)

No, you. You woke up. You woke a dragon. That's what you woke up.

Caller (110:23)

And so I feel like it's kind of a slap in the face. So I do think that's. That's kind of makes me and my husband a little bit angry.

Dr. John Deloney (110:29)

Did they ask for that money gift?

Caller (110:32)

No, it was just something that was put on our heart,

Dr. John Deloney (110:36)

but tell me about that.

Caller (110:39)

So at this point, this was during Christmas, and at this point they were really struggling to put food on the table and trying to give us a good Christmas, me and my siblings. And so we just felt really saddened by the situation. My mom had just gotten laid off from her job, and so we felt that possibly giving a gift of money and then realizing the help that they can, that they have received would help Them, I don't know, like, feel motivated to get back in the workplace to provide for their family. So it didn't work out that way.

Dr. John Deloney (111:18)

Yeah. So one time, like, if somebody passes away, you bring food, right? Like, there's some things, you just show up and you. You. You just show up without asking. One time, my buddy and his wife were. He was finishing school. She was. They were. They were just stressed to the max. And then she found out she was pretty pregnant. And so I told my wife, hey, I want to get them a house cleaner. I want a whole crew to show up at her house and take care of the whole thing. And my wife looked at me and she's like, are you insane? And I said, what do you mean? She said, the last thing a woman who's drowning in all the stuff needs is her friends to think, oh, she's got a dirty house, let's clean it for her. And so what she told me was, sit down with them. They're your friends for 25 years, and say, hey, how can we love y' all right now? We're in a season of blood blessing. And so instead of throwing a check at somebody that's struggling, this somebody you know really well, right? If this was a person who was struggling, they didn't have a house. Somebody in that.

Rachel Cruze (112:18)

You're just someone bad with money, and you're giving them more money.

Dr. John Deloney (112:21)

Sit down with your mom and say, hey, I know y' all going through a tough time. What do y' all need? How can we love y' all right now? And let her tell you. And if she has too much ego or pride to say, hey, we could really use $500 for groceries. And she says nothing. We're fine and good.

Caller (112:34)

Good.

Dr. John Deloney (112:34)

Then let her be an adult and say, you're fine or good. But you thinking y' all can go in and just dump money on a problem, and it's going to motivate them. That's never worked for them ever. And it's not going to work now. And y' all are the ones paying the price for it, right?

Rachel Cruze (112:47)

You're upset, and now you're resentful because they're not doing well with the money. With their money. Right? The thing that was supposed to help them. And in fact, they're becoming still irresponsible, and you're in the pathway of it. All of them just, like, throwing their irresponsibility at you with stuff that you're like, mom.

Caller (113:03)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (113:04)

And I. I don't want you walking around feeling guilty because y' all are in a season of blessing right now.

Rachel Cruze (113:07)

Yeah. So what's the. Yeah. What's the boundary, John, for adult. An adult child.

Caller (113:12)

Right.

Rachel Cruze (113:12)

Riley and the parents, like, take.

Dr. John Deloney (113:15)

Take care of your money really well. You and your husband be good stewards of what you got and keep an open dialogue with your mom. That question always. How can I love you? Today? I asked my wife that. She asked me that. But that's a great, great question for your kids. It's also a great question for your aging parents. Parents.

Caller (113:31)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (113:32)

And if they say, well, we just need a thousand dollars a month from here on out, then you can say, I don't want to contribute to that. Or I'll walk you through your finances if you want to talk money. But I'm not just going to throw money at a problem over and over. Because then you are tilling the soil for resentment.

Caller (113:47)

Right.

Caller (113:48)

Right. Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (113:49)

And so own that. Say, I want to love you. I want to. I want our relationship to say, good. And just throwing money at a problem. Problem. Right. So if you want to talk about how to get your money right, if you want to talk about budgeting, if you want to talk about this Ramsey stuff that me and my husband do that has helped us get this clear, I'm in all day long. And if you have a need like, hey, we don't have any groceries, we'll be there for you 100 times out of 100.

Rachel Cruze (114:10)

Yeah, we can feel that.

Dr. John Deloney (114:11)

But, man, when you get to just.

Rachel Cruze (114:13)

Well, when they, when money's just thrown at a problem, anything. This could be friendships, parents to children, children to parents. I mean, all of it when it's being thrown at a problem, but the problem itself is not being addressed, it just magnifies the dysfunction and it becomes a big problem of the problem. Right. It. It rarely goes in and fixes it. Now, if someone is in a season of cleaning up their, you know, clean up their financial mess, they're working the baby steps, they're taking an extra job, all of it. And you have. You have some money and you're like, you know what? I feel called to be like, hey, let's pay off that credit card for them. Like, we want to do that and because we are magnifying the good that is happening, not the dysfunction.

Dr. John Deloney (114:53)

But I will say that this, sometimes that sentiment, which I agree with 100% is used to also, hey, there's a guy hungry on the side of the street. I'm not going to give him any money. He needs to get it. Sometimes the problem to solve is that guy's hungry right now.

Rachel Cruze (115:06)

Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (115:06)

He needs a place to stay tonight.

Rachel Cruze (115:07)

Totally right.

Dr. John Deloney (115:08)

We're going to solve that. Like, so I. I want to be generous across the board.

Rachel Cruze (115:11)

Yes.

Dr. John Deloney (115:11)

But when it comes to systemic stuff like this in your house, man, sitting down and having the harder conversation is always more valuable.

Dave Ramsey (115:34)

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Rachel Cruze (116:38)

Our scripture that I comes from either. Isaiah 43:19. See, I am doing a new thing now. It springs up. Do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland. Jim Collins said the critical question is not whether you have luck, but what you do with the luck that you get. Do you remember, John? This is so random. One time we were hosting together. Every time I do it, I kind of laugh to myself because I have this memory of us hosting together, and I didn't say our scripture of the day. I just started the day saying, see, I am doing it. I just started right into the scripture.

Dr. John Deloney (117:14)

We were just hanging out on the air, and Rachel starts speaking in, like, new King James, old King James Version. I was like.

Rachel Cruze (117:21)

He said, what are you saying? I was like, it's our scripture of the day.

Dr. John Deloney (117:23)

She's been reading all those, like, fairy Viking romances or whatever. And she started, like, speaking in that language.

Rachel Cruze (117:29)

It just always makes me laugh. I'm always like, I need to say scripture of the day. And I don't just start saying, see, I am doing a new thing. No spring up.

Dr. John Deloney (117:38)

Although when we're hanging out, just like you and me and Sheila and Winston, you do just sometimes break into these long quotes. Scriptural.

Rachel Cruze (117:46)

Some monologue.

Dr. John Deloney (117:47)

No. Yeah.

Rachel Cruze (117:48)

All right, let's go to Columbus, Ohio, and we have Alexa. What a name to have in the world today. Hi, Alexa. Welcome to the show.

Caller (117:57)

Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks so much. For taking my call.

Rachel Cruze (117:59)

Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

Caller (118:02)

Yeah, my husband and I are exciting about two to three months away from completing baby step two.

Rachel Cruze (118:09)

Yes.

Caller (118:10)

Realized that we are not aligned on what to do with our credit card once they are paid off. And I'm in the camp of closing them. He is not. And so I'm just looking for talking points on how to help him make. Make him feel good about that decision.

Rachel Cruze (118:25)

Some talking points. Okay, so when you say he doesn't want to close it out, does he want to keep. Keep it, the credit card in case of an emergency or is he wanting to keep it for expenses but pay it off every month? Like, what is he looking for when

Caller (118:38)

it comes to the credit card of it's a good credit building tool and then more so in case of an emergency, why not?

Caller (118:46)

Is what he usually uses.

Rachel Cruze (118:48)

Yes. Okay. Well, my talking points, which John could probably get into the psychology of just what you're desiring, Alexa. And for as husband and wife, you know how he can, how you can approach that with him on more the emotional level, but from just the financial side, you know what, what we find is people who especially rack up credit card debt throughout the month and say we're going to pay it off more. I think it's like, right. Close to 50% of Americans don't. And so half the people are telling themselves a lie that they can afford it when they really can't. And if your credit card is your emergency fund, then you're just, you are adding risk back into your life. And what I think it does is I think it slows down the motivation to actually save and have a fully funded emergency fund. That should be your safety net. You should be your safety net, not, you know, a credit card company. And then when it goes to building your credit score, I mean, yeah, if he's wanting to go, you know, get loans, then yeah, you will have to have a credit score. But if you want to live a life debt free, which you guys have done, and you've worked so diligently to get out of debt, why you would want to go get a car loan again or a personal loan, I don't know why you would, but if you did, then having a credit score would be important. But we believe you don't have to live with debt, so you don't have to have a credit score. And for a mortgage, that's the one type of debt we're okay with, that you can actually do manual underwriting. You don't even have to have have a credit score to do that. So. So there's a way to live life without a credit score. But you really are choosing to live life debt free, which ultimately, which is why we do this show. We really do believe it. It brings the ultimate peace when you don't owe anyone anything and you have autonomy over your money.

Dr. John Deloney (120:34)

So can I give you a bad. Like an example? That's probably not fair. Alexa, how long have y' all been married?

Caller (120:43)

Married? Two weeks.

Dr. John Deloney (120:45)

Two. Oh, wow. Y' all are just in this. How long did y' all date?

Caller (120:50)

We've been together for about eight years.

Dr. John Deloney (120:51)

Okay, gross. That's a decade. Awesome. Okay, imagine I'm going to be ridiculous. Will you be ridiculous with me?

Caller (121:00)

Sure.

Dr. John Deloney (121:01)

Okay, imagine y' all both cheated on each other at the beginning of your dating relationship. And then y' all both decided it's you and me, ride or die. We're going to do this thing. And then y' all were both like, but what? Let's keep those one night stands numbers in our phone just in case you get annoying.

Caller (121:20)

Oh, my gosh.

Dr. John Deloney (121:21)

Right? It's ridiculous. Right? It's ridiculous. You would never do that. You would say, no, no, no. We're married. We're going to figure this thing out. And so if we have a fight, if we don't like each other for a while, which is every marriage, if we're annoying each other, we're going to sit down and figure this out. If you work like crazy to get out of debt and you're like, well, let's just keep these things open just in case. Case you're going to use them. If you don't have that number in your phone, you're going to have to sit down and figure out, all right, we had the fridge go out and the transmission fell out of the car. We have to figure this out. What are we going to do? And we're going to buy a $50 used fridge on Craigslist just to put milk and eggs in to get us through. And we're going to be a one

Rachel Cruze (121:59)

car family for a month till we save up and pay for it. Yeah.

Caller (122:02)

You.

Dr. John Deloney (122:02)

You will figure out how to do it.

Caller (122:04)

Right.

Dr. John Deloney (122:04)

And so I, for me, I'll tell you, you this, it's why I keep social media on a separate phone. I'm not good enough. Those. The tech folks who created these social media, they're better than me. They are better than me. So I have to put a bunch of steps in front of me. It's a tool I have to use for work so it has to go on a separate phone with an off switch that goes in my bag, etc. Etc. When it comes to credit cards, I'm not good enough. I'm not. They're better than me. Always knowing I could always just quickly jump to this thing. So I, that's why I think, you know, you close them, you close, you set up a bunch of hurdles between you and where you actually want to go.

Caller (122:43)

Love it.

Caller (122:44)

I appreciate it. Thank you.

Caller (122:45)

Yeah, you bet.

Dr. John Deloney (122:46)

And congratulations. Two weeks in, already have in this big fight.

Rachel Cruze (122:50)

Good luck. All right, let's go to John in Denver. Hi John.

Caller (122:55)

Hi. Had a question on your guys thoughts on public loan forgiveness. My girlfriend is graduating medical school and is starting her residency and three years of her residency will count towards the 10 years needed for public loan forgiveness. So didn't know if that's something from a we should pursue standpoint or if it's more so hey, we can aggressively pay this off once she gets first kind of normal paying doctor job.

Dr. John Deloney (123:31)

Yeah.

Caller (123:33)

Or what your guys's stances were on public loan forgiveness.

Dr. John Deloney (123:36)

So I'll tell you this, I have, I have a really significant built in bias and I'll give you the other side of my bias. I worked at a law school for six, seven years for a while and I had a number of some of the most brilliant compassionate minds foregoing go working in big law where they could go make a whole bunch of money. And they chose to go do public service law with the idea that they were going to be a part of this loan forgiveness program. And then they all got hosed. They, they weren't, they weren't like they kept getting denied or not reimbursed or delayed or an administrative error or clerical error or some sort of mess. And so I have been ranting, I don't try trust, I don't trust the government to come in and pay off any. I don't trust them to do anything they say they're going to do in 10 years. I, I mean go back 10 years politically, could you have imagined today? No. Right. And so when I look into the future, 10 years, I would say man, I trust me and my wife more than anybody else in the world. That said, I want to also give the other side is the public service loan forgiveness has gone up. They have been processing more and they've been getting through this backlog of millions of people. Um, I would continue to pay on it if it was my house just because I don't trust what's going to happen in ten years. Um, but that, that, that. I'm telling you what I would do in my home. I'm telling you what I did do in my home. My wife and I paid off our. Our student loans of our doctoral programs that could have qualified for public service because we didn't trust the outcome.

Caller (125:10)

Right. Which. And my only thought is, and then this is my nervousness, I guess, or, you know, compare and contrast, whether you put money in the market, et cetera, is that she has over. It'll be over about 600,000. We don't have any consumer debt. Really. The only thing we have is.

Rachel Cruze (125:32)

Well, and it's not we, John, it's your girlfriend. So keep things separate.

Caller (125:36)

Right, Correct. Which in the plan is trending in a good direction.

Rachel Cruze (125:41)

I'm glad. I'm glad.

Caller (125:42)

Yes. That's. Yeah, no, I won't spoil anything, but that's where for sure they're heading.

Rachel Cruze (125:48)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, we. Yeah, we've heard the good side, bad side, we tend to lean on.

Dr. John Deloney (125:53)

I'm going to lean every time.

Rachel Cruze (125:54)

Personal responsibility. Pay off your debts, take care of it. But we do know people. We've had people call in on the show and they've chosen to give their life that way and. And it worked out for them, and that's great.

Dr. John Deloney (126:05)

Six, two hundred thousand dollars. It feels like an insane gamble to take on the government going to do what they say they're going to do in 10 years.

Rachel Cruze (126:12)

Yep. All right, John, thanks for the call. Great show, everyone. John, thanks so much. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.