Get Out of the Cycle of Debt and Choose Peace Instead

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "Get Out of the Cycle of Debt and Choose Peace Instead"

Release Date: December 5, 2024

Overview

In the episode titled "Get Out of the Cycle of Debt and Choose Peace Instead," host Dave Ramsey alongside co-host Dr. John DeLoney delves deep into the challenges of managing debt, navigating financial distress, and fostering financial peace. Throughout the show, listeners call in with diverse financial dilemmas, seeking advice on debt management, estate planning, and maintaining financial stability during personal upheavals. The episode emphasizes the importance of proactive financial planning, effective budgeting, and clear communication to break free from debt cycles and achieve financial serenity.

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1. Navigating Private Student Loan Default and Debt Settlement

Caller: Todd from Boston, MA

Timestamp: [02:21] – [07:28]

Situation: Todd sought advice regarding his recent default on a private student loan managed by Navient (now Muhela) after engaging a debt settlement company earlier in the year. With his father as a co-signer and a total credit card debt nearing $35,000 across four cards, Todd was struggling to negotiate manageable payments.

Advice Provided: Dave Ramsey recommended Todd opt out of the debt settlement company and utilize a refinancing service, Why Refi, to handle his defaulted private student loans. Ramsey emphasized the importance of:

• Refinancing Defaulted Loans: "Why refi buys it at a discount and then you are paying them a reasonable interest rate so they're happy and you get a payment you can afford, so you're happy." [02:59]

• Budgeting and Debt Snowball: Ramsey advised Todd and his wife to collaborate on a budget, prioritize debt repayment using the debt snowball method, and commit to aggressive savings strategies like living on a minimal budget until debts are cleared.

• Dealing with Debt Settlement Companies: He cautioned against using such companies, stating they often harm credit more than beneficial alternatives.

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2. Financial Decisions Amidst Divorce and Property Ownership

Caller: Elliot from Canada

Timestamp: [10:27] – [17:59]

Situation: Elliot, a single mother of four, was contemplating purchasing a new home amidst an ongoing divorce. Holding two paid-off properties and a current residence with a mortgage, Elliot was concerned about asset division and financial stability post-divorce.

Advice Provided: Dave Ramsey advised Elliot to:

• Delay Major Financial Moves: "No, you should rent until you get this final because if you buy something in the middle of the divorce, it's going to throw that property into the middle of the divorce discussion." [12:05]

• Consult Legal Counsel: Emphasized the necessity of engaging an attorney to understand Virginia's property laws and ensure clear asset division.

• Estate Planning: Highlighted the importance of detailed will-related conversations and ensuring that personal assets are protected and clearly allocated to prevent familial disputes.

Dr. DeLoney added emotional support by advising Elliot to avoid letting grief override financial responsibilities, encouraging active grieving through structured actions like budgeting and debt repayment.

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3. Budgeting and Financial Management After Separation

Caller: Lucy from Richmond, VA

Timestamp: [21:22] – [28:00]

Situation: Following the separation from his wife, Lucy found himself solely responsible for household finances. Despite earning approximately $73,000 annually, he struggled to save, leaving him with little at month's end.

Advice Provided: Dave Ramsey emphasized the necessity of:

• Proactive Budgeting: "The only way to make the money behave is before the month starts, write every dollar down and where it's going to go and then make it go where you wrote it down to be going." [22:58]

• Financial Discipline During Emotional Times: Encouraged Lucy to remain vigilant with budgeting despite emotional distress, highlighting the importance of controlling expenses to build an emergency fund.

• Investing Strategically: While Lucy attempted to invest small amounts weekly, Ramsey pointed out the ineffectiveness of sporadic budgeting without consistent monitoring.

Dr. DeLoney reinforced the concept of actively grieved through financial structure, advocating for deliberate financial planning to navigate personal turmoil.

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4. Managing Real Estate Investments Post-Cancer Recovery

Caller: Alan from Seattle, WA

Timestamp: [37:17] – [46:57]

Situation: Alan, a 68-year-old cancer survivor with a net worth of $5.5 million, was managing a duplex yielding significant returns but exhausting due to active management demands.

Advice Provided: Dave Ramsey discussed two main options:

• Professional Management Companies: Acknowledged that while they handle day-to-day tasks, they wouldn’t eliminate vacancies or repairs but could mitigate the stress associated with property management.

• Selling to Invest in REITs: Recommended considering the sale of the duplex to invest in Real Estate Investment Trusts (REITs), which offer passive income without the hands-on management.

Dr. DeLoney highlighted the emotional toll of active property management, suggesting that shifting to more passive income streams could enhance Alan's quality of life during retirement.

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5. Estate Planning and Inheritance Challenges

Caller: Travis from Seattle, WA

Timestamp: [42:17] – [50:10]

Situation: Travis inherited a substantial estate ($3-4 million each) from his deceased father. Conflicts arose when step-siblings demanded a share, challenging the clear inheritance to Travis and his brother.

Advice Provided: Dave Ramsey tackled the complexities of estate planning by advising:

• Clear Communication: Stressing the importance of discussing wills and inheritances with all potential heirs before passing to prevent misunderstandings and disputes.

• Legal Documentation: Emphasized the need for detailed wills and legal clarity to ensure that assets are distributed as intended, avoiding state intervention.

• Personal Boundaries: Encouraged Travis to maintain his father's original intentions without yielding to external pressures, reinforcing that inheritance decisions are personal and legally binding.

Dr. DeLoney underscored the necessity of proactive estate planning conversations to safeguard relationships and ensure transparency.

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6. Debt-to-Income Ratios and Relationship Stability

Caller: Madeline from Atlanta, GA

Timestamp: [75:32] – [84:27]

Situation: Madeline and her fiancé faced a poor debt-to-income ratio, exacerbated by her sole responsibility for a mortgage and his $28,330 in consumer debt.

Advice Provided: Dave Ramsey urged the couple to:

• Formalize Their Relationship: Recommend immediate marriage to legally combine incomes and debts, thereby fostering financial teamwork.

• Unified Financial Planning: Implement the baby steps methodology post-marriage to aggressively tackle debts and build savings.

• Financial Vulnerability Awareness: Highlighted the risks of maintaining separate finances while cohabiting, emphasizing that untangling debts could leave Madeline financially exposed if the relationship faltered.

Dr. DeLoney acknowledged the emotional aspects but reinforced Ramsey’s stance on the importance of financial unity for stability.

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7. Concluding Insights on Estate Planning and Financial Communication

Timestamp: [53:42] – [59:39]

Discussion: Dave Ramsey and Dr. DeLoney elaborated on the critical role of estate planning and clear financial communication. They highlighted that:

• Lack of Wills Leads to State Control: "78% of Americans die without a will, which is insane." [59:05]

• Proactive Estate Conversations Prevent Disputes: Encouraged listeners to discuss their wills and estate plans openly with family members to avoid posthumous conflicts.

• Authentic Communication Reflects True Intentions: Advocated for transparency in inheritance intentions to ensure that financial dispositions align with personal relationships and intentions.

Notable Quotes:

• Dave Ramsey: "Tell people this is what's going on. And so I've got a friend whose kid is doing drugs...". [56:01]
• Dr. John DeLoney: "Don't pay off his loans and...". [68:02]

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Final Thoughts and Promotional Segments

Throughout the episode, Ramsey Highlights included:

• Promotions for Ramsey’s Products: Titles like "Jenna's Questions for Humans" decks and discounted books were advertised as tools for financial empowerment.

• Sponsored Messages: Segments promoting services like Knockbox for estate planning, BetterHelp for online therapy, Helix for mattresses, and EveryDollar for budgeting were interspersed between content discussions.

• Emphasis on Cyber Monday Offers: Encouraged listeners to take advantage of ongoing Cyber Monday sales for financial and personal development products.

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Conclusion

"The Ramsey Show" episode "Get Out of the Cycle of Debt and Choose Peace Instead" offers comprehensive guidance on managing various financial challenges, from debt negotiation and estate planning to budgeting during personal crises. Through real-life caller scenarios and expert advice, Dave Ramsey and Dr. John DeLoney underscore the significance of proactive financial management, clear communication, and strategic planning in achieving financial peace and stability.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, you guys, Cyber Monday deals are here, so shop meaningful Christmas gifts that won't bust your budget. Right [e-mail] store. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John DeLoney, Ph.D. in counseling, number one best selling author and host of the Dr. John DeLoney show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Well, it's official now. We get to start saying Merry Christmas, right? I mean, some people start just before Halloween and then others start right after Labor Day. But we're. I think we're close enough now we can officially say Merry Christmas.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It was the day after Thanksgiving. My son and I were going hunting. It was 4am and every channel had Christmas music on it. And I was half asleep and I said, I can't take this. And he said, ted in his half asleepness, it's the happiest time of year, isn't it? It's too early for Christmas music. Too early?

[Dave Ramsey]

Something not even up. Todd's in Boston, Mass. Hey, Todd. Welcome to the Rams.

[Caller (Todd)]

Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller (Todd)]

So I just learned to be a few days ago. My sister listens to you religiously and told me I should call you regarding my situation.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller (Todd)]

So earlier this year, I went with a debt settlement company to handle much of my debt, which is primarily student loans and credit cards. Unfortunately, just recently, I went into default with one of my student loans and that is through Navient, which is now Muhela. And what they offered me was something that's outside of my budget. And my father is a co signer on the loan as well. And I'm just trying to find out of ways of how I can negotiate something with Navient to help me make the payments that I can afford or what other avenues I can take.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. So this is a federally insured student loan, right?

[Caller (Todd)]

This is. This is a signature student loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

They all have signatures. They all have signatures. Is it private?

[Caller (Todd)]

Oh, it is private.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, Good news. Okay. All right. Well, lucky for you, we have actually a sponsor that refinances private defaulted, privately held student loans. So they'll buy it from Navient and refinance it and set it up where you can make the payments. You got a pencil?

[Caller (Todd)]

Yeah, one moment. Yeah, go ahead.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Why refi the letter Y R E F Y Dot com. And so I'll go ahead and give you the mechanics because they've been advertising with us for a while, we send people over there. But the mechanics are they buy the loan because it's defaulted at a discount and then they. So they don't have full face in it. They pay less than that because, you know, because you're not paying it, you're not credit worthy. Right. So that's not a loan anybody would want to buy that the guy's dead. That the guy's dead. Beating on it. Right. So they're going to buy it at a discount and then that enables them to restructure it and put an interest rate on it that's low and they still end up making good money on it. But you get the deal of the century. So it's a win win. It's a win win for everybody. Even Navient. And I really don't care about Navient. Never would I help try to help them win with anything. But. But it turns out they get money on a loan that they thought was bad, so they're happy. Y refi buys it at a discount and then you are paying them a reasonable interest rate so they're happy and you get a payment you can afford, so you're happy. So that part's taken care of. Now the rest of this, basically what these debt settlement companies have done and do and they did to you is they quit paying all any of your payments. So all of your credit cards are in default, right?

[Caller (Todd)]

Most of them, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they should all be. Did you pay payments to the debt settlement company?

[Caller (Todd)]

I did make payments.

[Dave Ramsey]

Correct, yeah. How many? I'd.

[Caller (Todd)]

Since May, so I'd say probably close to six or seven payments.

[Dave Ramsey]

They haven't paid any of your credit cards since you signed up with them until they work a deal with each credit card company and again they're in default. So they're working a bargain with them. They if you weren't in default, they put you there. Correct. That's why we tell people not to use this company because it actually does more harm to your credit than even filing chapter 13 bankruptcy. So how many credit cards do you.

[Caller (Todd)]

Have right now I have four.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is the total balance of credit card debt with all those?

[Caller (Todd)]

Just shy of 35 grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you make sure I.

[Caller (Todd)]

Make per month, net pay? I make just over six grand a month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Are you married?

[Caller (Todd)]

I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Does she work outside the home?

[Caller (Todd)]

She does.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does she make?

[Caller (Todd)]

She probably makes less than what I do. I'd say about three grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you got like 10 grand coming in a month. So we ought to be able to clear up 35 pretty quick once we get our crap together. Agreed.

[Caller (Todd)]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so, yeah. This is awesome. So what you do? Quit paying the debt settlement company, Just opt out? No more money. I'm going to take the Navian. So I'm going to take them to Y Refi, and I'm going to take these four credit cards and work on myself. Now here's what you're going to have to do because they're all in default. You have to lump sum, no payments, lump sum, settle each one of them. So what I want you to do is I'm going to put you on a budget. You and your wife working together. You're married. And we have to clean up this freaking mess that we have. We're going to get the student loans on a payment to quit making payments to the debt settlement company. We're going to live on beans and rice, rice and beans. Because the stress of this is overwhelming and it needs to be out of my life. I can't build wealth in the middle of this. And I make ten grand a month. We ought to be able to win, you know? Yeah. Okay, so it sounds like you're with me on this. Good. So now we're going to get you on a budget. We're going to sign you up for finance for Financial Peace University and show you how to handle money. I'm going to put you in every dollar. Now here's the way you work the debt, the debt off on the credit cards. Take the smallest one. What is it? Do you know? Yeah.

[Caller (Todd)]

Smallest one is just shy of four grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay? So you need to put together in your budget $1,000, $1,500 and call the smallest one. Understand that credit card collectors are the dumbest humans on the planet. And you can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving. They would have a good job if they weren't. That's a horrible job. It's a high turnover job. So you're going to be talking to people whose parents are cousins. All right.

[Caller (Lucy)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got it. I mean, you got to understand this because it's warfare.

[Caller (Todd)]

No, I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's warfare.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you're going to try to talk to them and they're gonna. They're gonna. You're just gonna have to hang up and then you got to go talk to them again. So I'm offering you $1,500 as settlement in full. And you keep beating that drum until you get them to take it and say, if you don't take it, I've got other cards. I'm going to take this money and go to one of the other cards. So you got about five seconds right now. Four, three, two. Are you going to take it? Because I'm hanging up. And you just got to have some fun with this, okay? It's going to take like 10, 15 phone calls per card and you'll settle them for a quarter on the dollar, lump sum. Do. Here's the two rules. Remember these two rules. Do not give them any money unless you have the agreed amount in writing. An email is fine. It's got to be in writing from the credit card company or from the collections agency, whichever it is, that they are accepting $1500 as settlement in full on this $4000 debt. And then that's rule number one. No money. Not in writing, no money. They lie. The second thing is no electronic access to your checking account. We'll just take it from your account. They'll take 4,000 out of your account. No, no. You send them a prepaid debit card that has just that amount only on it. And then you go get a different prepaid debit card for the next one and you keep them out of your account. And you don't deal with them except in writing. And you treat them all like they're crooks, because they are. Hope that helps. This is the Ramsey Show. You want to leave happy memories for your loved ones when you pass away. Not a mess. Your family will be grieving, so don't make them spend days trying to access your computer or sift through drawers full of junk. That's why you need a Knockbox. Knockbox is a complete home organization system and estate planning tool that helps you organize all of your accounts, personal history, wills, estate planning documents and all other info in one place. Inside each kit are 15 categories covering everything from life insurance policies and funeral plans to your dog's vet and the code for your storage unit across town. And the best thing about your Knockbox is the checklists that tell you everything to add to each folder so your loved ones won't have to guess where things are. So if you have a household, you need a knockbox. And you can get organized in time for the holidays by visiting knockbox.com Ramsey that's n o kbox.com Ramsey Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Number one bestselling author, Ph.D. in counseling. Lucy's with us. Lucy's in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Lucy. How are you?

[Caller (Elliot)]

Good, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller (Elliot)]

I got a real head scratcher for you. I was wondering if you could give me advice on a financial decision that I'm trying to make. I'm a single mom of four children and I wonder if I can purchase a home with going through a divorce.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're in the process of becoming a single mom with four kids. What do you make, hun?

[Caller (Elliot)]

I'm a registered nurse.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller (Elliot)]

I make like 50 plus dollars an hour. But I'm working PRN now since I'm going through marital issues and so forth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I got you. Anyways, so obviously you all are separated.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Has the divorce been filed?

[Caller (Elliot)]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller (Elliot)]

Because I have an appointment next week with the other Delaware because the other lawyer said it was a conflict of interest to hear my case. So I'm presuming that he has got that lawyer and so I'm going through another lawyer and start all over again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. Okay, good. Yeah. So no, you should rent until you get this final because if you buy something in the middle of the divorce, it's going to throw that property into the middle of the divorce discussion. Because you're still married.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so you need, you need to wait until the divorce is final.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Okay. All right. So the divorce final within. Whatever. And I have another issue. I own two other properties because I have read your book and I put paid off my mortgage in five years. And what do I do with this property that I live at now? I paid over $150,000. I paid it off in eight years.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, is, is your, is your husband going to have claim to it? Your ex? You're going to split the. Split the estate?

[Caller (Elliot)]

I'm going to try because it was my money that went into the estate. And I know that you say marriage, you equally. 50. 50. But he didn't contribute anything to my family.

[Dave Ramsey]

That will depend on Virginia law. And I don't know the law in Virginia. Okay. They may force you to split it with him anyway. I don't know. But obviously you're going to ask for and have receipts improve that he didn't pay on it. You paid on it. And so you didn't own it before you were marri, did you?

[Caller (Elliot)]

We bought it like three months after we got married.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay, so it's married, it's marital property. And you'll have to talk to your divorce attorney about that. So what I want you to do is get, get clear of the divorce and then you'll know what you own and you know, you'll know how much money you've got as a result to put into the next deal. So you could take that house and the other property, sell them, put that big. Put the pile of money you get from that out of the divorce in a pile, put some other money with it and buy your house. But you need to be clear of this so that the same problem you're getting ready to have with this house you don't have with the new one, which is arguing over it.

[Caller (Elliot)]

We're not. Well, it's. That's the head scratcher. I live right beside of his parents don't care.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller (Elliot)]

And I'm ready to get out of it, but I want my money that I put into it. I'll probably never see it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to see a lawyer, honey.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And I'll tell you, one of the things that always trips people up when they enter into a divorce is they have an imaginary number that they think they're going to get. And it's almost never that number. It's almost never even close to that number. And so then people think they're getting screwed. And really, they made up a number. So in your head, like you, you're talking to me and Dave, you bought a house as a married couple, and you might have married a deadbeat who did nothing, and he was a. A joke and a crook and all that, but the court will say, y'all bought that house together. And so in your head, you might be thinking, I get $150,000 in this cells and I'm just going to go buy a house. You may get 65, you may get 75. And if you. I'm just telling you, if you. If you think that that other.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't know. You don't know until this is done.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you're going to cause yourself more angst by imagining what comes next, is what I'm saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just don't know until this is done. So the answer to your question is you can either sit right there until the divorce is final, and the divorce decree will tell you, the judge will tell you what's happening with the house you're living in and the other property. And then based on that, I'm selling that house. If you've got control over it, you obviously don't want to be next door to his parents. We want to leave, and we want to take our cash and go start a life. Chapter two.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Encore.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And I think the man. If I could Tell people one thing when they're going through something hard, whether it's a divorce, somebody just passed away, is slow down. Don't do anything for six months. Don't do anything for nine months. If. Now, if you got to get away from mom and Dad's house, go rent a place, but don't do anything permanent for six to nine months after. After.

[Dave Ramsey]

But in the middle of it right now, you need to do something. You need to go get an attorney and you need to get this filed. And you need to start learning about what law is in your state. And your attorney can tell you there's zero chance you're getting this, or he or she can advise you. I think we got a real shot at that. They'll tell you what's going on, but you're going to get new information that you don't have yet today. And you do not need to buy a house in the middle of this. If you need to move out of that house because of relationship problems now, then just go rent the cheapest thing you can rent until you get the other side of the divorce. Because here's what happens. We get our. In divorce situations, a normal human being will get their emotions woven into and create this false sense of justice in the math. That's what John's talking about. And it doesn't work that way. A friend of mine that does divorce recovery work and counseling says a divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction. It's all about pluses and minuses. You plus for this asset, minus for this debt. And it's about pluses and minuses and 401ks and what are. What ends up on which side of the balance sheet, the ledger. And then the judge signs off and then the money is dispersed and you know, all the emotions and all the what's right or what's wrong and the justice and all, it doesn't really come up usually. It's kind of frustrating.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So that's the deal. So you got to walk through it. So please get the other side of this before you buy something. If you've got to move, if you don't have to move, sit there. But if you've got to move, then go rent something. Rent the cheapest thing you can rent until you get the other side of this. But go get an attorney like yesterday.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I've seen this several times, Dave, where somebody has an imaginary number about what they think they're going to get. And then they do what she's talking about. They go buy a house based on. In a Couple of months, I'm going to get $200,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then they get.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You get a check for 60.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Or 40. And you're in a. You're up a creek, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So just get after it. And the other thing, Dave, I love that you mentioned this. It seems to be a new trend. This is new coming up over the last three or four years. It's people getting divorced, but not trying to do it, just handshake. Like, we just. We're just moving on. And if you've made a legal binding agreement, you have to unbind that agreement.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's state law.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're screwed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So call an attorney. And if you're moving out, call an attorney and go through the process and get all the. All the T's crossed and the die the eyes dotted and move on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Shut all shot, all accounts down immediately that have both names on it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

So he can't run up debt right now that you end up being responsible for because it's got your name on it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I put a freeze on my credit so that somebody couldn't get in there with my. With my Social Security number and open up some credit cards and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep. And all of that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, you know, we'll just take that just the last second here and remind you guys. Okay, so here's the deal. When you sign up for a car loan or credit card loan, that is a contract. You and your husband, folks, if you're out there, you and your wife are on that together. If both of you sign up for it, it's in both names. It's a contract that both of you have signed. The judge comes in the divorce decree in probate court and says, I'm going to give this Visa bill to the husband. Okay? That means that judge has told the husband he has to pay it or he has to face that judge. He does not. That judge does not have the power to undo the contract. So just because he handed the Visa bill to the husband and said, I want you to pay it, the wife is still on that bill. So when he doesn't pay it, they sue both of you and you can't go. But the. But the judge said the judge does not have the power in divorce court to undo contract law. They don't have that power. Only bankruptcy court has that power. And so no, you know, well, the judge said to give him the house. I gave him the house, and he didn't pay it. Now they're suing me. Right. Because you believe that crap, you're still on the contract. So you've got to be completely released from everything by getting it paid off and moved and that kind of stuff in the process. That's why this is a business transaction now. This is the Ramsey Show. You know, I love when I get to talk about this. Each year during the holidays, as in years past. This December, Zander is donating 25% of all ID theft protection sales to Team Rubicon, an amazing veteran led disaster relief organization that brings assistance across the country after major disasters and storms. These guys do incredible work on the ground helping those in immediate need and have a huge impact in helping people get on the road to recovery. Zander has contributed over a half a million dollars to worthy causes like this every December. Listen, ID theft is a reality and being protected has just become a necessity, even for our kids. Their plan bundles together all the protections you need while being the best value out there. It's the only plan I've ever recommended and you can give it as a gift. Visit Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. There's no better way to protect yourself, your family while helping others in serious need. That's Xander.com or 800-356-4282. Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Elliot is in Canada. Hi Elliot. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas.

[Caller (Lucy)]

Merry Christmas. I'm hoping you can help. So earlier this year my wife left me. I've got a daughter who's about 18 months. We are separated, we're not legally divorced. She used to handle all of the money in the house. So I'm just kind of figuring things out for myself now. Make a decent wage. I make about 73,000 a year, but I just, I find I don't really have pennies to rub together by the end of the month. Like I'm not really saving anything. So I'm just wondering if we find maybe ways to optimize that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good question. Yeah, that would be a normal thing. Left to itself, savings never occurs naturally unless somebody's just like a savings freak. But most people, if you just don't pay attention at the end of the month or really even before the end of the month, the money's gone. And so the only way to make the money behave is before the month starts, write every dollar down and where it's going to go and then make it go where you wrote it down to be going. You're in charge of it, but you need to tell it what to do because what's happening is in your emotional state because your heart is broken and you're the daddy of a little baby and you're dealing with all this in the middle of all of that. You're not even paying attention to the money. It just leaves. Which would be. I mean, that's what most people would do in your situation. But the answer is you gotta pay attention.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

When you. When you're struggling to make payments at the end of the month. Is this you having sat down and done the math and realized, I don't make enough money to live where I live and do what I do now that I'm a single dad, or are you still sending money to your ex? I mean, what kind of final situation do you want to go to?

[Caller (Lucy)]

My ex. So, I mean, I'm currently paying about 40% of daycare based on how much she makes, how much I make. I've put a budget out for myself and it says I have $300 left over the end of the month. But that never seems to happen. I do have. I have like a recurring investment. I was like, I might as well start putting something away if I can. So I was just like, I'll do $10 a week. It's going to like this one. Really noticed. And I just have that going into investing in stocks and dividend reinvestment and all of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what happened was you wrote down a budget and you never looked at it again until the end of the month.

[Caller (Lucy)]

Yeah, you're probably right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then you went, wow, that didn't work.

[Caller (Travis)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, I'm going to give you the. I'm going to tell you to do a written game plan every dollar on paper, on purpose before the month begins. And then before you spend anything out of a certain category, you'd go back and check that category and make sure you still got money left in it. And make sure if you're spending time eating out cause you're lonely or you're spending time doing whatever that costs money because you're lonely, make sure you recognize that. And then you're writing it down.

[Caller (Lucy)]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I mean, you're going through a heartbreak right now. This is a hard time emotionally. And that hard time will show up in the money if you don't get on the other side of it and crack the whip on it. So what you're facing is a very normal reaction in a situation like you're in. But that doesn't make it okay. That doesn't make it. That doesn't make it like. Because it doesn't Feel right. And that's why you called.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And, Dave, I don't think you can overstate that. When your world blows up, it's easy to feel like the rules don't apply anymore.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But they do, right? Math does. Right? Math keeps going. And the kid still needs to eat. I remember a close friend of ours, her husband left her pregnant with number three. And. Oh, God. And I remember asking a couple years later, how'd you make it? And her answer was so instructive. She just said, I had to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And that meant I have to get up and do the next thing, the next. The next right thing every day. And so the next right thing for him is to begin to put some sort of structure to this chaos. His world blew up. His wife left him and this little one. And no one has that in their head even. Right. It happened. Let's get a hold of our money. Let's get a hold of our calendar. Let's start there. And if you can prove yourself over 30 days that I can stick to this thing and say no, then you can do it again. 60 days, and you can do it again 90 days. And then you start asking yourself, is this the job? Is this the apartment? Is this the house? Is this the daycare center? And go from there.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I guess I don't know, you know a lot more about this than I do. That it feels like grieving a broken heart or grieving a loss of some kind somehow gives us permission to let our body go, to let our mind get on junk food, binge, watch stupid stuff on Netflix instead of actually feeding our mind something that tightens it up and just let our money go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. And I think the difference is I don't think grief is doing nothing. I think grief is active. And if you're actively grieving something, if you're writing letters, if you are choosing your thoughts, if you're doing the next right thing, then that's an action. I think what most people mistake grief for is I'm just going to turn, draw the shades and do nothing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What I'm saying is when something bad comes at me, it's like you said, gives you permission. So I don't need to exercise.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't need to go to church. Right. I don't. I don't. I don't need to watch my money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because something bad happened to me. So now I have permission to so on my butt.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One of my friends who works in. In the fitness industry said, we often treat diets like you Blow your diet. And he goes, you get a flat tire, and then you just. We're like, whatever. And he said, it's like pulling out a knife and going and slashing the other three tires. He goes, instead of just having one tire off. Right. So your world blows up. This is the time to actually stop and really down on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Double down on everything else.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. This is when you need it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You got to control the things you can control.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that marriage blowing up is not one of them.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it's. That's happened. So let's do these other things so that we can deal with the hard, hard truth.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what that means is, like, hardcore. Like, you were completely energetic and hopped up on caffeine. Hardcore budgeting. I'm going to write this down, and I'm going to pinch it. And I'm going to pinch it some more, and I'm going to. And 300. No. How about a thousand, thousand bucks?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

At the end of every month. And I'm going to start putting that towards something, and then I'm going to work some extra, and then I'm. And I'm going to lean into these things, and that's the way I'm going to process while I'm going through this. Rather than using this as a. A reason. I was going to say an excuse, but even a reason for taking our foot off the gas and just letting the car go in circles.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's your choose your heart, Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You can choose to double down on your budget. I will force myself to exercise even though I don't feel like getting out of bed and Even though it's 44 below in Canada where he is. Or I'm going to choose the heart of just getting to the end of every month and getting further and further underwater.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's just. It's. Human nature is just so interesting when we think it through, because I. I can't. I mean, doing this for 35 years, I can tell you that the number of times I talked to someone, they go, well, you know, everything was going good, and I went through a divorce. Then I went $40,000 in debt, and I gained 40 pounds. And it's like, well, now you got to go clean that up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, you know, what you said is, before you do that, go ahead and not do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, exactly. Or find a. Find an activity. Find a Xanax, if you will. Find a distraction that's not going to be catastrophic. Right. So often I tell folks, you get One. So I hear from husbands who come home, they're like, dude, I just want to veg out. A lot of guys will go sit in the bathroom for an hour and a half and they'll just scroll their phone or they'll disappear. And the pushback is you need to be present in this house. You need to be around. Okay, I need. I need a break. And I always tell them, okay, you get one. You want 30 minutes. She's gonna keep the kids away for 30 minutes. You get 30 minutes. After that, you got to put that thing down, be present. And so, yes, when your world blows up, it is hard to get out of bed. It is. Okay, so you get 10 minutes, you get 30 minutes to lay here and be sad. And then you got to get up, you get one, and then you got to go do your thing. Like, whatever that thing is, you got to go do the next right move that you know is good for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So a buddy of mine came to an event that John and I did with Micro. We're doing it for business guys. And Don. One of the things John did was a talk during that event and choose your heart. Decide. Okay, you're either going to be overweight or you're going to exercise and manage your caloric intake.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Both of those are.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're either going to be broke or you're going to manage your budget and work some extra and sell some stuff and get your butt under control. Right? Choose your heart. One of them's. They're both hard. You might as well choose which one on purpose rather than let it happens to you. A friend of mine sitting there, he's lost £150.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's so amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was with him. I was with him Monday night.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's like two George Camels.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, more two and a half.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's so amazing. Do. Do. Choose your heart, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Choose your heart. And. And I said, what do you do? And he goes, stinking Deloney talk, man. Choose my heart. He goes, I've been choosing to be fat. And I decided I wasn't going to be like, that's what he told me. Wow. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. And when you sign up for better help, between December 3rd and December 5th, you'll get one month of online therapy free. This is valid for US customers only. All right, so the holidays are here, and for some folks, you're able to stay in and enjoy getting cozy with family and friends. But for millions of other people, the holidays can be a stark experience of loneliness, grief, or painful, even unhappy memories. And for all of us, the holidays are a time of stress, chaos and change, and therapy may just be the next right move. Therapy can be a safe place for all of us to settle in, pause the stress of the season, and take care of ourselves. My friends at BetterHelp have made licensed therapy accessible for everyone, making it convenient and affordable to find comfort during the chaos of the holidays. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy with licensed therapist, and you can talk with your therapist when it works for your schedule. You just get online, fill out a short survey and you'll get matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp and when you sign [e-mail] DeLoney between December 3rd and December 5th, you'll get one month of online therapy for free. That's BetterHelp Help. H E L P.com/ DeLoney this is valid for new US customers only.

[Dave Ramsey]

Merry Christmas, folks. So I don't understand how on Thursday it's still Cyber Monday. I'm confused about all of this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I saw a great Internet thing from Lecrae. He was. It was like a. It was like a confession video. And I thought, oh no, man, did he cheat on his wife or something? It's like, I'm so sorry. But I said it was. I said it was good. The Cyber Monday sale. And it's just going to keep going for a while. It's like this big confession.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, apparently we're doing the same thing. So I don't know if we need to turn it into a confession or not. But the bad news is that Cyber Monday is not only on Monday. The good news is you can still get a bargain on stuff. So there you go. So hit ramseysolutions.com store you can get John's Questions for Humans decks. They're on sale for 12 bucks right now. Get you ready for the holidays. You can have questions for the humans or during the holidays. And you might see some humans during the holidays. The total money makeover books $12. The audio books out there are $8. Building a non anxious life. John's number one bestsellers $12. Check it all out at the continuation of the Cyber Monday sale. Ramsey Solutions.com store it's just the Keep it going. Just keep her going. Just keep her going. Travis is in Grand Rapids. Hey Travis, what's up?

[Caller (Travis)]

Hey, how's it going, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller (Travis)]

So this Is my question. Right now I'm driving to work and it's costing me quite a bit of money because I drive a 3/4 ton pickup truck.

[Caller (Patrick)]

I'm planning on buying a cheap little.

[Caller (Travis)]

Gas zipper four cylinder car. My question is, when I do buy that car and this truck is totally mechanically sound, nothing wrong with it, has high miles, Do I park it in my garage, keep it for a spare or do I sell it and invest the money?

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you, do you have debt?

[Caller (Travis)]

No, I have no debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How much money do you have in savings?

[Caller (Travis)]

10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How much in your investments?

[Caller (Travis)]

Well, I just started investing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good and only.

[Caller (Travis)]

Like, only like 3,000 right now. I'm only.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what do you mean you're only how old?

[Caller (Travis)]

I'm 24 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Caller (Travis)]

I make $30 an hour by the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, good for you. Okay, so you're gonna buy a cheap little car because the 3/4 killing you on gas. Pretty simple, right?

[Caller (Travis)]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You know, it, it, I love having a truck. I've had a truck most of my life. I drove a truck to work today. Okay, so I'm a truck guy. Let's just put that in the parentheses in the answer here. All right. However, if I were 23 in your situation, I would not keep a spare car as an investment of any kind. Now later on, you know when you're a millionaire and you're 33 because you keep following our stuff and you want to have a spare truck sitting around, I'll be your guy because it'll be a small percentage of your world. But right now, I mean, that truck will bring how much money?

[Caller (Travis)]

5,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, if I put $5,000 in the middle of the table and you didn't own the truck, would you go buy a truck for a spare? No. The only reason you're keeping it is because you like it, right?

[Caller (Travis)]

And well, if I'm buying a cheap car and if that does go down on me, I will have a backup.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have a backup now you have a five thousand dollar truck.

[Caller (Travis)]

Right? Right. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep, that does make sense. I guess if I were you, I'd sell the truck, promising myself that I'm going to become wealthy and drive whatever the flip, I want to drive later because I'm not worried about the gas myself. I mean, I drove a Raptor R over here. The thing drinks gas. Like, I mean you have to stop at every gas station on the way.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It gets four miles to the gallon.

[Dave Ramsey]

It gets four gallon? Yeah, it gets four gallons to the mile. But yeah, but I don't give a rip. You know, that's the difference. Yeah, so. But I'm in a position. But when I was broke, I remember being broken 23. It wasn't 20 minutes ago, it feels like. And so, yeah, you don't need that. You don't need that extra weight on you and. But you just like having. You just like the truck. I don't blame you for that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I tried this when I was broke to have a spare little. I inverted it. I had an old truck that I liked driving around, but I had a little zippy card to get around. And it was when it came up for registration.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah, and that gum insurance, I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Did the math in insurance and it was costing me about 75 bucks a month that I didn't have. And so this paid for car that I had in the driveway was costing me money. That was my light bill. And that's when I was like, it's got us. I got to sell it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. So that's what I would do. But again, it's not a permanent decision for the rest of your life. It's what you're doing right now at your stage at 23. Later on, get you whatever you want to get. When you got some money, dude, live like no one else. Later you can live and give like no one else. Allen's in Seattle. Hi, Alan, how are you?

[Caller (Alan)]

I'm doing much better than I deserve, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can I help?

[Caller (Alan)]

Well, I have done so well. I started doing Dave Ramsey about five years before Dave Ramsey started doing Dave Ramsey and I discovered you on the radio in the 90s. I said, I'm already doing that. I'm already doing that. This is great. It was confirmation from what I was already doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's good when a couple of geniuses can meet up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Old, old, old geniuses.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, careful. That's where that genius stuff comes from.

[Caller (Alan)]

So now I'm 68 years old. I survived about a cancer this year. So I'm tired than I used to be. But I'm doing fine. I'm doing great. My net worth is five and a half million. I've got about 2.9 of that in stock in the stock market, in mutuals. I got about 200k in cash and I'm living in a house that's worth one and a half million dollars in Seattle with the lake view. I mean, it's just better than I ever dreamed. I can't believe it. And I proud of it because I didn't. I never spent more money than I made. It was just obvious to me you make so much, you spend less and you say, so that's where I am now. So now that I'm 68 and getting a little tighter, I've been retired for a long, long time and I'd spend most of my time doing volunteer work when I, when I do anything. Anyway, I've got a duplex up, it's about an hour and 15 minute drive from here and it's worth between 800k and a million and it's bringing in about 50k a year. It's increasing in value by about 50k a year. So it's, it's net worth, you know, in value is about 100k a year. And I'm just getting tired of managing it because as you know, real estate isn't passive. Every year something happens, one of the tenants moves out, we got to turn it around or we get a water leak or something happens or not. And I told my wife, I said I'm tired of managing this thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what's your question, Alan?

[Caller (Alan)]

Well, do I sell the place and get a REIT to just, you know, be done with it or do I get a professional management company?

[Dave Ramsey]

Professional management company is not going to make vacancy and repairs go away.

[Caller (Alan)]

No, I know that both of those.

[Dave Ramsey]

Things are still going to be there. If the vacancy and the repairs are what are driving you nuts, those aren't going to leave. Professional management company will just handle the grief associated with those two things, but not the money. And so you're going to give up a little money in order to have someone else deal with the tenant, deal with the repairman and those kinds of, and deal with the vacancy. But there, you know, no one cares when it's empty as much as you do. So that's up to you. If you want to go that route, that's fine. But just get hope, you know, look for the right thing out of it. It sounds like you're tired of being landlords, what it sounds like to me. And so I think I am probably getting out of it and I might get into a different kind of a property that doesn't require as much active management, something that's a little newer, that kind of a thing. Or like you said, just buy a reit, put, drop, drop that million dollars that you're talking about there into a REIT and that's fine.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's a reit, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

A real estate investment trust. It's basically a mutual fund for real estate is how it functions. And so many, many, many Allens out there put money in and they buy a bunch of different properties and the cash flow from those properties and the increase in value of those properties give you your rate of return. And Most of the REITs are paying about like a good growth stock mutual fund, about 10 or 12%. A good one is in the old days when they first started, they were fee heavy and they didn't do well net. Nowadays they're valid.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you just own a whole bunch of pieces of small pieces of a.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whole bunch of houses just like you do when you buy a mutual fund. You own a whole bunch of pieces of a little.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Bunch of stocks, Pieces of companies.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, bunch of stocks. Same thing that puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. Live from the hand headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John DeLoney, people, PhD in counseling, Ramsey personality, host of the Dr. John DeLoney show and the number one best selling author. He's my co host. Today, Jared is with us in Phoenix. Hi, Jared, how are you?

[Caller (Travis)]

I'm doing better than I deserve.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. What's up?

[Caller (Travis)]

Well, my, my dad passed away a few years ago and he left us a very sizable estate to my brother and I.

[Dave Ramsey]

What, what is, what is a sizable estate? How much money?

[Caller (Travis)]

My brother and I probably ended up with 3 to 4 million each.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's sizable. Okay, I'll agree with you on that.

[Caller (Travis)]

And, and he, he taught me to, to be debt free at a young age. So I've, you know, I've built up my own and my own retirement up to about $750,000. Anyway, so it wasn't that I needed the inheritance.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you were already a millionaire.

[Caller (Travis)]

I was working on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, you had other savings on top of the 750, so you were there, you had a house, probably.

[Caller (Travis)]

Had a very blessed life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Good for you.

[Caller (Travis)]

So the conundrum that I have is that he was married a second time. So I have step siblings and one of the steps had mentioned that I should share because he left it to my brother and I and not the other steps.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now the steps are not his kids.

[Caller (Travis)]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

They were his wife's from a previous marriage and it was his second marriage and so he became the stepdad. I'm just making sure I got the exact connection. So they have absolutely no blood connection to him whatsoever.

[Caller (Travis)]

Correct. And they're adults.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long were they married?

[Caller (Travis)]

16 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, so they were adults. They were. He didn't Raise these kids.

[Caller (Travis)]

No, he waited till he said that. That he didn't want to get married until everybody was out of the house. They dated for a considerable amount of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Time, so they in no way even looked at him as a father figure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Bye, Felicia.

[Caller (Travis)]

Well, this. This step doesn't have a good relationship with her father, and she did kind of look at him for advice and so forth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, that's nice.

[Caller (Travis)]

And he was. He was good to their kids, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

I bet he was.

[Caller (Travis)]

To the. To the steps.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so she calls you up and says, I want some money.

[Caller (Travis)]

No, she. It was. I'm having problem. My brother has passed away since then, and he was in the middle of a divorce, so I'm having problems with his wife that was divorcing my brother. And I mentioned that to her. And during that conversation, she got upset because of the numbers involved, and she started crying and saying, I can't talk with you about this. And I just really. I just don't understand why we can't all just share and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because we're not communists.

[Caller (Travis)]

But what do you say to that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Nothing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nothing. That's not your fault.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You don't say anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you say, you know what? I'm so sorry.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, listen, I care about you, and I'll be here to emotionally be your step, whatever I am and that kind of stuff, but. And I understand that this is hurtful to you, but, gosh, I'm so sorry, and I just leave it at that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because it's not about.

[Caller (Travis)]

You feel bad about this.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. You didn't do anything. What'd you do? Why would you feel bad? What'd you do?

[Caller (Travis)]

Well, not. Not that I did do something, but that, you know, that I'm in a better situation than she is and it just, you know, she's making.

[Dave Ramsey]

You didn't harm her in that process. Your father had money, and your father decided to leave his money to his two sons. That is a very normal act. Had he left some to the stepchildren, that would have been unusual.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Step. Adult kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that he never. Were never in the house that he lived in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He didn't adopt them, did he?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they were adults.

[Caller (Travis)]

Yeah. No, they. Their father's still alive.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. So. No, I mean, that. That's. This poor girl's just got emotional issues on her own. I mean, I can't talk to you. You got too much money that I thought I needed some of. I mean, come on. That. That's her.

[Caller (Travis)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, no, no, I don't feel guilty. At all. And I'm not going to be mean about it. I'll be kind to her. And your dad loved her. He'd be gentle with her, and you're going to be gentle with her. But your dad didn't leave her any money, and he was closer to her than you are now.

[Caller (Travis)]

We're pretty close.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your dad was closer to her than you are. He married her mother.

[Caller (Travis)]

All right, well, I appreciate the vote of confidence that I was doing the right thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

So are the. Were the assets of you and your brothers intermingled?

[Caller (Travis)]

Some of them were. There were just a couple of things, but my brother and I got that worked out.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how are you involved in the divorce, then his death and so forth?

[Caller (Travis)]

Because I'm his trustee.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, geez. You're the executor of his will?

[Caller (Travis)]

Well, she sidestepped that and got the. Forget what it's called when you. When you're the. She became, in lack of terms, the executor because the will hadn't been put in place. So she's kind of in charge of the estate, but I'm in charge of the trust.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh.

[Caller (Travis)]

Because I was the trustee, so. Yeah. That's a whole nother mess.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I bet Thanksgiving dinner is amazing at your house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, no, not anymore. This chick's on the out. She was on the out before he died.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Oh, my goodness.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I get to make the rules. But I've got the money.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I get to make the rules. No, but I get to make the rules.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not really.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're like. You were almost the ex wife. You keep that in mind.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, that's what I figured out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Reason we were going to put an X in front of your name, kiddo.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

How? The Fed uses the road money like. We're states. We can do what we want. That's cool. You want roads. Okay. We'll do what you say. Oh, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Hey, guys. Wow, Jared. You do whatever you want to do, honey, but bottom line is, it's back to the step sister thing or whatever she is. If you were to give her some money, it's not going to make her okay. She was not okay before. She will be not okay after, because this is not about the money and it's not about you. So you can't fix her with a check.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a waste of money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And even. I mean, y'all call each other what you want to call each other. That's. That's your family's business. I. I don't even know this qualifies as a Stepsister.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I mean, it's, it's, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

I guess it is.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's the child of. It's an adult child of someone your dad married. Right. But that's a separate life. It's a separate world. And maybe all are close now. And that's wonderful and great and good, but I always like to think back on these situations as if my dad was here and I've got a decision to make. What would bring him joy. Right. With this money he left me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well. And he already decided what he wanted to do with his money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He made that.

[Dave Ramsey]

He was sitting there when he wrote the will.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, she, she was on the planet at that point.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is not, this is not like something that just. Oh, I didn't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, he already cleared. Dad already clearly said what he wanted to have happen.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. Behaviors of language. He was loud and clear.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he didn't say he was mad at her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

He just said she wasn't his.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you don't know what she's already left them. Who knows she paid for her college or her kids college. You don't know any of that stuff. She just saw some huge numbers and says, I want some of that. Yeah, that's what happened.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. There you go. This is the Ramsay show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

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[George Camel]

Hey, guys. George Camel here. And it's that time of year again. The store shelves are packed with Little Debbie's Christmas trees, matching pajamas for you and your dog. You know who you are. And giant inflatable Santas for the yard. I'm not mad about that. And speaking of inflation, Americans are about to spend close to a trillion dollars this Christmas. And get this. One third of that spending will be swiped on credit cards. Yikes. Now I get it. You want the holidays to feel magical and you want to have a good time. But trust me, there is nothing magical about staring down a mountain of credit card debt come January. So here's the deal. If you don't want JanuaryU to hate DecemberU, I've got a money hack for you. Download the EveryDollar app. It's free to get started, and you could find an extra $400 of margin in your first month of using it. See, with EveryDollar, you'll keep your holiday spending under control. You'll track your expenses, you'll make a plan, you'll stay accountable, and maybe even set yourself up with some sweet New Year goals. So skip the post Christmas regret and download EveryDollar for free in the App Store today. Your future self will thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality is my co host today. So I ran out of time, and we ran into the break on the dysfunctional stepsister dad left money to his own boys discussion, and I was actually having a talk with one of our team members before the show. Christian in here and I were talking about a dysfunctional succession plan that's blown up in the public eye that he's aware of. And how do you. He was asking me, how do you avoid that? So let's go back to that particular thing and say, how do you avoid this? Okay, so there's two broken things in that call. One is the step kids had no knowledge, and so once they got. Once the daughter got knowledge of how much money, then her feelings were hurt, and her reaction was, I can't even talk right now. You need to give me some of this money. Right?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

The other broken thing was his brother who had received $3 million. He and his brother had some of that intertwined. They were able to untangle that. So this brother was standalone, but. And then his brother starts going through a divorce, and instead of making sure he had a completed will. His will was incomplete. So now his soon to be ex wife has stuck her nose into it and is screwing that up. Both of these are poorly handled estate planning. Okay? So every one of you need a detailed will. But here's the important part that is left out of the first one of these things. With the step kids. Have a reading of the will or a discussion with the parties that think they might be involved. You need to do it in one room or a series of rooms. I don't care. Have the courage to tell people what it says while you're alive. So if dad, who loved this girl's mom and was married to her for 16 years, had sat down with this girl and the others and said, hey, I care deeply about you guys, but when we got married, we decided that my money was going to go to my kids. And so I want you to know ahead of time, it has nothing to do with whether I like you or whether I care about you, but I'm leaving my money to my sons, and it's substantial. But that's none of your business.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Would that be his conversation or would that be their mother's conversation?

[Dave Ramsey]

I think it's his.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think it's his because she's right. Now, who's she angry at? Him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because she felt connected to him and this. This cut her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. It makes me wonder if he gave her 50,000 bucks and then 4 million and that's the. That's the gap.

[Dave Ramsey]

She didn't say.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She didn't say.

[Dave Ramsey]

He said. He said he left everything to my brother and I.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Which I don't even know what happened to the mom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did she not, the second wife, not get taken care of? I don't know. We didn't get that in the story. But the bottom line is, tell people this is what's going on. And so I've got a friend whose kid is doing drugs, and he's in his 20s, and he sat down with everybody and he said, honey, I can't leave you money, not because I'm punishing you, but because I'd be buying you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Drugs, I'll kill you. I'll kill you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'll use that. Your addiction will be ramped up and you'll have an overdose and die. And I love you, and I'm not going to fund something that brings harm to you. And so you're not going to get any money in the current version of the will. And it's not because I don't love you. It's because I do love you. And you're out of the will and he knows that now. And your brother's the executor and don't you say a word to him. So dad threw his shoulders back, had a backbone and had the discussion with a grown child drug addict while he's alive.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So this is not a movie, this is life. It's not like we have the paneled room with the trophy wife and the dysfunctional four children who come in and they are entitled and trust fund babies and the reading of the will and they're all shocked that the one kid who's somewhat normal gets it all. This is, that's a movie that doesn't happen in the real world. Okay? Whatever you're doing in the real world, tell the people that way they don't have to deal with the other people who are pissed off after you die because you were a coward and didn't tell people what was going on.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, your cowardice act of cowardice, your cowardice will blow up the lives of the remaining.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what this is. If dad had had a 10 minute conversation with his grown step kids and explained to him that he loves them, he loved their mother. But this was my money before I came into this marriage and it's what's going to my children. You're not my children, even though I care about you, then that would have probably handled this whole thing. And if brother had kept up with his own dad gum will and gotten it, gotten it done and changed everything over so you get divorced. Change the beneficiary three weeks before on your 401k and your life insurance policies. Don't expect your ex wife who hates your guts to leave to take a half a million dollar insurance proceeds and just give it to somebody because you forgot to change the beneficiary because you didn't do your job. So you've got to do these documents people.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

It drives me nuts.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And here's the other side of it. Here's the other side of it. I just yesterday sent my dad a text message. My Dad's in his 70s and I'm going to see him over Christmas. And I said I want to go out to lunch with you and I just want to listen. I want to hear what your, what your picture is for the next 10 years where your mom want to live. Because I think he's retiring in the next couple years from his professor job. Where are you going to live? What do you want this to look like, and is a part of that conversation. And my dad was a homicide guy. He's been. I've known where that will was since I was six years old. Right. But talking through, what kind of support are y'all going to need? What kind of health challenges are y'all facing? But there are millions of senior adults that won't have that conversation you're having. But there's also millions of people my age, 30s, 40s and 50s. If you don't know, don't just say, well, they wouldn't have the conversation. Then you need to go have the conversation that somebody has to be an adult in this transaction. Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Guys, 78% of Americans die without a.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Will, which is insane.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's stupid. It's asinine. If you're 18 years old, you need a will.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Cruel.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care if you own anything or not. You want the. You want the state to decide what happens to your children. Have you seen what some of these states are doing with children? You don't want these states in charge of nothing. They're morons. And so you need to be in charge of your kids as it's a will.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And there's zero. Zero correlation between making a will and a likelihood. You die soon. Right? That's not a thing. Talking about death doesn't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Might be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The opposite doesn't occur. Probably.

[Dave Ramsey]

The more we discuss my death, the better I feel. We call it the Monty Python meeting where we sit and talk about Dave when Dave dies.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I'm not dead yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm really not dead yet. It's just a flesh wound.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Not dead yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm feeling better. Really. Just a flesh wound.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dave, over the last year on my show, I think one of the most common questions I get is how do I do X without somebody getting mad? How do I do. How do I talk about why without them getting. Blowing up our. You can't control that. So I think we all, as a country, we just got to have some hard conversations and we got to do it in our. At our kitchen tables.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have to be mean about it. No, my buddy. That he's not mad. He is upset. He's hurt his kids doing drugs.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But he'd probably pay for rehab. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

He would help him any way he can. But he's not going to give him a blank. Money.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

In order. The same amount of money everybody else. He gives him zero.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. Because, you know, and he said, when you clean up, I'll change the will. If I'm still here. If you don't clean up before then. You're just out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, you know, and it's a good. It's a good incentive, but it's not. We're not trying to buy something with that. We're just trying to say, this is what's going on, so don't be hurt later.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go. Hey, folks, we love talking about money and life and everything else. One of our brands where we help people is a small business brand called Entrez Leadership. And we coach about 10,000 small businesses around America showing them how to run a small business, all the aspects of running a small business. And I do a podcast that we've had. We've done a podcast for about, gosh since podcast started. It was one of the first podcasts out there. It was the first one we ever did here before we even put Ramsey on a podcast. It's called Entree Leadership Podcast. And I took it over two years ago. And I just take calls from small business guys and gals who call in and go, I got this team member that's doing this. I can't get my dad to do the succession plan. I having trouble with this marketing idea. And so we just talk business during that Entrez podcast. I do it once a week. If you want to be a caller on that, go to entreleadership.com ask or call 8449-441078-44944, 1070. So Mama Bear legal forms.com has been a sponsor of ours for almost a decade now, and that's a quick, easy way. During the holidays, if you have an uncomplicated estate, you can knock out a will just for a few dollars and in a few minutes, and then just hand it to everybody if you want to. Merry Christmas, right? I don't know. But if you've got a complicated estate, you may need to sit down with an estate planner. Like, you got a lot of money or a lot of weird stuff or something, that's fine. But if you want to knock out a quick, easy will and do all the healthcare, power of attorney, and all the right stuff, mamabearlegalforms.com will help you.

[George Camel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

It's Cyber Monday week and if you're looking for Christmas gifts that actually make a difference, we've got them. Get bestselling books like Breaking Free from Broken Baby Step Millionaires and more for just $12 or audiobooks for just eight bucks. Now's your chance to give something that'll help your friends and family build wealth, transform their relationships and find work they love. Visit Ramsaysolutions.com store today Ramsaysolutions.com store Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host. Today, the Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you by. Why Refi? We trust. Why refi? Because they help people who have defaulted private student loans and they help them refinance with a low fixed interest rate that you can't get anywhere else. One guy didn't name Chris did it. He had a student loan. He cut his payment by 40% with why refi go to why refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, today's question comes from Jenna in Minnesota. Jenna writes, should I help my boyfriend pay off student loan debt? No. I guess we could just end it there, but I'll keep going. I know what you're going to say, so let me explain.

[Dave Ramsey]

Still no.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We both went to college for mechanical engineering. My parents covered my tuition, but my boyfriend has over $125,000 in college loans. We Both work good jobs and bring home a combined income of $200,000. But his loan payments are killing him. He didn't want to burden me with them, and he wants to put our life on hold. Marriage, house, and children until they're paid off. He has about 15k in savings, and so this is going to be a long process. I have 80,000 in savings and roughly 300,000 in stocks that my grandpa set up for me when I was a kid. Should I help pay off my boyfriend's loans by adding an amount to his payment every month, pay them outright, or do you think I shouldn't help him at all?

[Dave Ramsey]

Should you cave to his blackmail?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's exactly I was going to say. He is. This is a. It's a red herring. It's a. It's a proxy.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a ploy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So listen, kiddo. We tell folks when they get married, everything becomes shared. So you will have $125,000 student loan when you're married, because your husband does. He will have $300,000 in stocks that his wife's grandfather left her. He will have $80,000 in savings that his wife had before they got married. And so when you get home from the honeymoon, pay off the. Pay off the student loan. But this is bull crap.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Bull crap on a stick. So frustrating.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, Tell boy child, time to. You know, part of the problem is, is we're all playing house over here, so he's got no incentive to get married other than blackmail you into it. So now if you want to have a healthy relationship, y'all get married yesterday, since you're playing house anyway. We have a combined income. You don't have a combined income. You're not married. That's bull crap. You're shacking up.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And we would not have a show if people like you didn't withdraw $125,000 from the money that their grandparents sent them to pay off a boyfriend's loans, and then y'all break up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah, that's like, we would standard.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We wouldn't have this show if that didn't happen all the time. And I know you can say, no, not us. Not us.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he would never do that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, y'all.

[Dave Ramsey]

The guy that won't marry me would never do that. You know how you sound? So seriously.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, don't. Please don't. Please don't. Please don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Time to get married, boys and girls. Look, I think this is a. I think it's a good. I think it's a good. Like an Altar call right here. It's come to Jesus. Are we. Are we going to do this or not?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because if you're going to get married, y'all get. Y'all come home from the honeymoon, we would tell you to take the $380,000 that you have in assets and pay off the 125,000 debt that he has, and then we take off with our life, with our fabulous combined income and zero debt and whatever's left of that money, which would still be 200,000 bucks. So. Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And by the way, when you get married, what you're agreeing to do is to help carry burdens together for richer, for poorer. And so if he.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sickness.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

If he already says, well, I've got this thing going on, so I'm going to hide it from you. I don't want to be with you. I don't. Apart from you. This will be the rest of your life. This will happen with kids. This will happen with tuition. This will happen with which church to go to. This will happen again and again and again. This is the big, glaring neon sign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Put our wife, our life on hold.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He doesn't want to burden me with them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Put our life on hold.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Then he does. He's not ready to marry you, then.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, brother.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're going to work together. Work together. Work together.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm going to give this guy about 20 minutes. Get me to the church on time. Baby, I'm serious. I'm done with this guy. This is bothering me for. So there's something about this that's running all over me, and I. I'm usually a little bit. I'm pretty. Pretty mean, but I'm usually a little bit more gentle than this. Yeah, but this is. This. There's something wrong, Jenna.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here. Here's what I. Here's what is. Is getting under my skin.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I know what it is. You have worded all of this. It's all the dad gum language. That's what's killing me. You have worded all this because you have bought this freaking sales line.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's it. That's the thing. She thinks she's the problem. She thinks she is the problem here.

[Dave Ramsey]

This guy has complete. He's a. I'm afraid he's a con artist.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

He's a leech. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So either way, if you're. Listen, you. You either need to leave or you need to get married.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Please don't pay off his loans and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don'T pay off his loans unless you get married. And if you get married, then it's our loans and our money. And we'll do that. But you got, you got about 20 minutes, buddy. About 20 minutes. Stop. Sales job. Don't like, don't like con artists who are sleeping with the person they're conning. It's a problem. Dad. Gum salesman. Sorry, I think I've had too much coffee. John. Merry Christmas. Ho, ho, ho. Oh, my gosh. I need to calm down. But, yeah, I just, I think about my girls and they did not. Thank God. We, you know, thank God that we taught them how to pick and they picked studs. So I've got two sons in law. They're absolutely incredible.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I, I, Yeah. I've got a young daughter.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you would kill him. But here's what, here's why.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know I do. Here's why this young woman, Jenna, is, Is astounding.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. She's a dead gum.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She's a mechanical engineer. She makes a hundred grand. She's got half a million dollars already put together because her grandpa hooked her up. And she's got this guy that she loves, and the guy is making her the reason.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so she's asking herself every day, what am I doing wrong? Oh, I have another way I can save this thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

I, I want to help. I know what you're going to say, but I'm different.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, it's not you. It's him.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's him.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're worth more than this. That's what I'll say.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're more valuable. We're angry for you, Ken. Yeah. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Brought to you by why Refi and Preparation H? Because I got hemorrhoids now. God. Makes me so mad when guys are idiots.

[Dave Ramsey]

Patrick's in Orlando. Hey, Patrick. What's up?

[Caller (Patrick)]

Hey, guys. So the situation is we're. My wife and I are 67 and we've got 2.8 million in four different mutual funds.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go free.

[Caller (Patrick)]

Thank you. Thank you. We're debt free and we got an offer we couldn't refuse on our business. We closed December 11th. We get 575 cash and we hold a note for five years for 300. So that brings me to the question, because I've got a daughter that lives in Austin, Texas, and she and her husband have been married for 20 years, and we have a beautiful grandchild. And they're saving for a house. They're also debt free. They're doing everything right. They're both teachers and they want to get a house. And they're saving like crazy two rounds of IVF to get Julia here pretty much wiped out. Their savings, and they're trying to come back for that. And I'm thinking, you know, December 11th, I collect 575. I could probably, you know, give them the money for a pretty nice house in Austin at 575. And so that's one option. Option two would be really strong.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just do it. Yeah. I like it. I like it. Can I add one thing to it?

[Caller (Patrick)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I do want this to be a gift. And I'll teach you a technical thing you need to do. But aside from that, I do want it to be a gift without strings, sort of. But I would sit down in person with them. You and your wife go to dinner and make this a big deal. This is not just a drive by. Breakfast, one morning coffee. Okay? We're going to a nice restaurant. We're going to make a production out of this and say, this has nothing to do with the grandkid. Although you said it six times, that it does, but it doesn't. Okay. It shouldn't. It shouldn't because you shouldn't give it to them because the grandkids. You should give it to them because they have been responsible and you're not bringing harm to them and you're not enabling bad behavior. Instead, you're accentuating and lifting the positive thing that they have been doing with their life. And it's going to. It's going to change your family tree the rest of the way. So, yes, you should do it. And I would say I'm going to give this to you with no strings attached. I will tell you I have a favor to ask, that you promise to never borrow money again.

[Caller (Patrick)]

Love it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I wouldn't. I wouldn't make that. It's not a contract. But I would just say I'm doing this to change my family tree. But if you go screw that up by borrowing money, that's going to break my heart. And I would do it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now. Oh. Unified estate tax credit. Talk to your tax guy. You need to use up some of your estate tax exemptions so you don't have gift tax. Don't do this without tax advice. Go get some tax advice, please. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramsaysolutions.com real estate. That's ramsaysolutions.com Real Estate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dr. John DeLoney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. Thank you for joining us, America. If you haven't heard, Cyber Monday is no longer just for Mondays. It's pretty much any day of the week we want it to be. So it's just a cyber thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Cyber forever.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a cyber. Cybers forever. That's what we're. It's us. Yeah. Apparently we lied to you when we told you it was only on Cyber Monday. And we're going to continue to lie to you until we choose not to. So that's the bad news. The good news is the store has everything on Cyber Monday. Cyber Monday, here we go. So, yeah. Breaking Free from Brokes, on sale for $12. The number one bestseller by George Camel. Building a Non Anxious Life, the number one bestseller by Dr. John DeLoney. On sale for $12. Baby steps, millionaires. Total money makeover get clear assessment. Audio books are $8, by the way. Just check it out. Ramsaysolutions.com store until we decide Cyber Monday's over. And when we decide it's over, you will have missed out. But you don't know when that's going to be because I don't know when that's going to be. So there we go. This is the Ramsey Show. Madeleine's in Atlanta. Hi, Madeline. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Thank you for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller (Elliot)]

So me and my fiance are just really stressed. Our debt to income ratio is horrible. So we just wanted to know what steps we need to take to go in the right direction to get out of debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

When are you getting married?

[Caller (Elliot)]

We haven't planned a date yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then there's not a we.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Right? Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's not. Legally, morally, ethically, monetarily, we aren't in existence until we are married. And I'm not just making a statement. You literally have absolutely no rights to the other person's income, legally speaking.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

So you can act like you're playing house, you can act like you're married, and it doesn't change the law. The law says that your debt is your debt. Okay? Now when you're married, that's different. So I would suggest if you're going to be a we. That. You make it a we, and you run down the courthouse this weekend and get married.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How long you all been engaged or dating?

[Caller (Elliot)]

About three years. Engaged.

[Dave Ramsey]

Time to paint or get off the ladder, kid.

[Caller (Elliot)]

What? What do you mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean get married.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Oh, okay. Sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

We've been almosting a long time.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

So y'all just. How old are you?

[Caller (Elliot)]

I'm 24.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool. So what do you make? And what does he make?

[Caller (Elliot)]

So I make annually? 38K. What's he making him annually?

[Caller (Lucy)]

Okay.

[Caller (Elliot)]

I don't have it totaled, but 2640 monthly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. He makes about the same. You do, then. Okay.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much debt do you have?

[Caller (Elliot)]

So my debt about. So. Really? I only have the home loan and the.

[Dave Ramsey]

You bought a house together?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

House, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it your house or do you buy it together?

[Caller (Elliot)]

I'm the only one that's on the lease.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it's a lease?

[Caller (Elliot)]

Yeah. So I'm financing. Mortgage loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Honey, that's not a lease.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you buy a house or are you tenant.

[Caller (Elliot)]

I bought a home.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a mortgage in your name. You have a mortgage. Lease does not enter into it.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Yeah. 243,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so you have a mortgage, you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Bought a $240,000 house, and you make $35,000 a year, and you're 24 years old. Oh, geez.

[Dave Ramsey]

On the promise that he was going to help her pay, but they're not married and he's not on the loan.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Correct?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. This is what I've been talking about before I started talking. Okay, now the. All right, so let me f. What debt does he have?

[Caller (Elliot)]

He has in total, including his auto loan, $28,330.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so here's what I would tell you guys to do. And you're. I don't know if you're gonna do it. I can't tell from talking to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Will you actually do it? You sound terrified.

[Dave Ramsey]

I kind of don't think. I don't know if you're nervous on the radio or if you're just gonna go do whatever you want to do. Anyway, The. I. If you were my daughter, I would take you two knuckleheads to breakfast and bump your heads together and say, you knuckleheads go get married this week because. Because you're very. Do you understand how vulnerable you are? This guy walks off, you're screwed, girl. You understand? You can't pay this house payment.

[Caller (Elliot)]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you. They qualified you for it, but you can't you can't afford this house if he gets up and leaves. Right?

[Caller (Elliot)]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Now, I'm assuming your. Is your relationship good?

[Caller (Elliot)]

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then I would say let's quit acting like we're married and go ahead and get married, because it's very, very important that you all do Combine everything. And then what we've got is we've got a home mortgage with an $80,000 household income, approximately. And he's got some consumer debt that we need to get paid off as quick as we can. And we'll walk you right through the baby steps. At that point, you cut up your credit cards, we get his car loan paid off, and we take all the overtime we can. We quit eating out, we don't go on vacation, and we clean up this mess. And where you have $20,000 cash in the bank for an emergency fund and no payments, but a house payment and a combined income of 80,000, you'd be in pretty good shape, right?

[Caller (Elliot)]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

I can get you there in about a year if you're married. I can't get you there while y'all keep sort of doing this because it won't work. Because. Because this, the doing things in the wrong order has left our precious Madeline here unbelievably vulnerable. You will be the victim if this thing goes sideways, not him. You'll be the one that's in a mess, this thing goes sideways, not him. And you're worth more than this. And so somehow you talked yourself into, or you got talked into, or you guys together sat down and had a. A combined lack of brains and decided this was the right way to go, and it wasn't, because it's left you, my daughter, in a real mess, potentially.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let's say he's not gonna, like, break up with her, but they cut his hours, they. He quits his job, or he decides, I want to go get an NBA, and he just quit. Like, it's so exposed.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, she doesn't have. It's all on her.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's what I mean. Like, he's got a free ride now he got someone else to buy a house that he lives in, and he gets to pay rent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Maybe.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Maybe. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So this is why these numbers don't work. Okay. All right, guys, there's a couple issues. We got to stop for a second because we've got just a moment here. Number one will remind you that if you want to catch the next segment of the show, the third segment of the podcast is always on the Ramsey network app, and it's completely free. Go download that for free. So the numbers, if you do just a couple of things in the right order, there's less than a 3% chance you'll be at the poverty level. And the right order is before you do anything with your, with building a family, you graduate from school, high school, okay? You do not live together before married. If you don't live together before married and don't have children before married. So you do it in the, it's called the, it's called the order, the poverty, Poverty order, okay? So you graduate from high school, get married before living together and before having children, you have less than a 5% chance of being at the poverty level. That's the national statistics. Almost all of our poverty occurs when you do those things in the wrong order. And you're a 17 year old with a baby and he takes off because we got pregnant before marriage and so on and so on and so on. And I'm not picking on anybody. I'm just saying if I could sit down with a 14 year old and say, hey, you have less than a 5% chance of poverty level. If you'll just do these three or four things in the right order, you set yourself up for prosperity. You want to add to this and get it down to almost zero chance, graduate from a four year degree that in a usable degree field, you want to add further to that, do all of that with no debt. If you just do a couple of little things like that, you're down to less than a 1% chance you're going to be at the poverty level. You can, these are, these are controllable variables in your life, but instead you just buy a house with somebody you're not married to. This is the Ramsey show.

[George Camel]

Hey, you're still here. What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey network app, Right? All you gotta do to finish the episode is search Ramsey network in the app store, Google play store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right. For free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.