Get Your Finances In Order Now So You Can Enjoy Your Life Later

Summary

The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Get Your Finances In Order Now So You Can Enjoy Your Life Later
Air Date: January 8, 2026
Host: Dave Ramsey (with co-host Rachel Cruze)
Network: Ramsey Network

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Episode Overview

The main thrust of today’s episode is empowering listeners to take control of their finances, regardless of past mistakes or current debt. Through live calls, Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruze provide guidance on ditching debt, making smart financial decisions, handling family inheritances, and preparing for a financially stable future. Their tone is direct, honest, and peppered with encouragement—backed by Ramsey’s no-nonsense approach to financial literacy and personal accountability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tackling Debt After a Business Loss

• Caller: Tracy from Chicago (00:45)
• Situation: Tracy and her husband are relocating and selling a business, ending up with $49,000 in credit card debt and being underwater $8,000 on a truck loan.
• Advice:
  • Sell the truck immediately; the LLC structure doesn’t shield personal liability for these debts. (03:04)
  • Focus on “debt snowball” with available cash flow ($2,000–$3,000/month toward debt).
  • Don’t negotiate for a credit card settlement if you have the ability to pay—just pay the bill.
  • Quote – Dave Ramsey (05:12): “The only way people accept less on the debt that is owed is if they don’t think it’s going to be paid... If you want to not pay your payments for six months, yeah, you probably could negotiate with them, but I don’t recommend that. You have the money to pay your bill. You should just pay your bill.”
• Takeaway: Move forward, pay your debts, and learn from the haste that led to costly decisions.

2. Parent PLUS Loan Family Conflict

• Caller: John from Chicago (12:58)
• Situation: John’s parents took out a Parent PLUS loan for him; his father passed away, his mother spent a life insurance payout, and now expects John to pay back the $104,000 loan.
• Discussion:
  • John feels guilt and obligation but notes his mom’s spending excesses and lack of fairness regarding his sibling.
  • Ramsey acknowledges the emotional difficulty and states John’s options are: refuse to pay (risking family estrangement) or continue to pay (03:00).
  • Quote – Dave Ramsey (18:03): “The other option is shut up and pay it.”
  • Rachel Cruze highlights boundary setting with “boundaryless people” often leads to blowback (19:53).
• Takeaway: Weigh relational consequences, but prioritize your household’s financial and emotional health.

3. Divorce and Debt: Starting Over at 51

• Caller: Tiffany from St. Louis (21:45)
• Situation: Recently divorced, on a $24,000 income, with $20,000 of debt. Husband isn’t helping.
• Advice:
  • Contact your attorney to ensure your ex is held accountable for his share of debts and to divide assets properly (401k, car).
  • Consider a career change (nursing, in Tiffany’s case) to significantly boost income.
  • Do not prioritize debt payments over basic living expenses during this period.
  • Quote – Dave Ramsey (24:06): “Nurse is a great, great idea. I want you to begin to think about those things... I like that plan.”
• Takeaway: Reimagine your future and focus on becoming financially self-sufficient rather than just surviving the present.

4. Mortgage Payoff: Should I Pay It All Off Now?

• Caller: Frank from Houston (29:26)
• Situation: Has $87,000 in cash and wants to know if he should pay off the remaining $32,000 mortgage and other small debts now.
• Advice: Yes, pay them all off and celebrate!
  • Quote – Dave Ramsey (30:37): “Well, just—it's called an early birthday. Happy birthday. Frank, you are too old to wait till your birthday. You need to do it now. And say happy birthday. Just wrap up all the receipts and open them again at your birthday and go, whoopee.”
• Takeaway: Don’t wait—experience the freedom of being debt-free sooner rather than later.

5. Fun Money in Marriage: Separate Accounts or Not?

• Caller: Aiden from Alabama (66:01)
• Situation: Engaged couple considering separate “fun money” accounts to avoid guilt over discretionary spending.
• Advice:
  • Set a predetermined fun money amount in the budget that both partners can spend guilt-free.
  • Sinking funds or budget line items are sufficient; no need for legalistic separate accounts, unless it helps.
  • Quote – Rachel Cruze (66:45): “Welcome to marriage, Aiden. Yeah, absolutely, that's gonna happen...But that’s why, together, you decide—here’s how much money a month we’re gonna spend that we each get to spend, and you get to do it guilt free.”
• Takeaway: Communication and transparency are key; trust, not separation, is how you build long-term financial teamwork.

6. Paying for College: Find an Affordable Path

• Caller: Jillian in Charlotte (72:06)
• Situation: Has one child graduated from college with some debt; two more kids approaching college with limited savings.
• Advice:
  • Choose a school that fits your financial reality: use community college for the first two years, state universities for the rest.
  • “College choice” is the single biggest factor in affordability—not loans, not scholarships.
  • Quote – Dave Ramsey (74:49): “The thing that causes people to not be able to pay for college is not college. It’s college choice.”
• Takeaway: Remove emotion and prestige from college selection; pick a path that doesn’t put your family in debt.

7. Buying vs. Renting in Retirement/Estate Planning

• Caller: Jolene from Toronto (55:12)
• Situation: Single, no heirs, close to paying off home, questioning downsizing options: buy a condo with high HOA fees or rent and spend down assets.
• Advice:
  • Prefer owning over renting; it stabilizes future housing costs and provides peace of mind.
  • Quote – Dave Ramsey (58:11): “You’re stabilizing the largest line item in your budget into old age because rent [is uncertain]...that scares the crap out of me.”
• Takeaway: In most cases, owning stabilizes your long-term financial plan better than renting, even if there are fees involved.

8. Responsible Generosity & Tithing

• Caller: Stacy from Baton Rouge (44:20)
• Situation: Reduced income to stay at home and volunteer, wonders if she should tithe less because of her service work.
• Advice:
  • Giving is about the heart, not a strict formula. Volunteering “counts,” but traditional tithing calculations are based on net income.
  • Quote – Dave Ramsey (46:29): “The whole point of the tithe is…to create a giving heart and a rhythm of giving…not to create a burdensome rule.”
• Takeaway: There’s flexibility in how you give—focus on generosity, not rigid formulas.

9. Handling Inheritance Aligned to the Donor’s Intentions

• Caller: Jennifer from Hartford, CT (118:11)
• Situation: Inherited $500k, donor wanted it to go to their children, seeks advice on honoring the intent.
• Advice:
  • Use the inheritance to advance your family financially (pay off debts, invest, etc.)—the kids will benefit both now and later.
  • Quote – Dave Ramsey (119:16): “I would walk it right through the baby steps because that’s the way your kids end up getting the most bang for their buck out of the 500k, assuming you leave it all to them anyway.”
• Takeaway: Fulfill the intent in a way that multiplies the benefit for your heirs, rather than locking up assets out of guilt.

10. Extreme Car Debt: Avoiding Predatory Financing

• Caller: Noel from San Antonio (96:41)
• Situation: 24 years old, $80k car loan with $1,200/mo payment, co-signed by grandmother, with only $60k salary.
• Advice:
  • Sell the car immediately; live frugally and pay off remaining debt, especially to protect the grandmother.
  • Avoid ever co-signing or trading into high-dollar loans on low incomes.
  • Memorable Rant – Dave Ramsey (101:34): “Clear the car. For God’s sake, honey, take care of your grandmother by clearing the car because it’s going to land back in her lap because it’s going to go sideways if you don’t straighten it up.”
• Takeaway: Don’t let dealers or family pressure you into catastrophic debt; make sober, math-based decisions.

11. Baby Steps Millionaire Success Story

• Caller: Ashley from Columbus, Ohio (107:32)
• Situation: 30-year-old with $1.16M net worth, no inherited wealth (except college fund for kids), achieved primarily through living below means, saving, and investing.
• Advice:
  • Live below your means; don’t try to “outsmart the system.”
  • Hard work and consistency pay off over time.
  • Quote – Ashley (111:16): “Don’t try to be fancy or clever. Be boring. Do the slow things. Invest. Save for your future. Don’t try to outsmart the system...I worked hard young so that I can now reap the reward a little bit older and spend time with my family.”
• Takeaway: Steady, disciplined habits trump flashy shortcuts on the road to wealth.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On urgency and mistakes:
  Dave Ramsey (07:01): “When you operate a business, it’s supposed to make money. Otherwise, it’s what’s called a hobby.”
• On desperation:
  Dave Ramsey (08:02): “Right after I get desperate, I get stupid.”
• On family pressure and boundaries:
  Rachel Cruze (19:53): “When you set a boundary with boundaryless people, 100% of the time they go cray cray.”
• On car financing outrage (Noel's call):
  Dave Ramsey (102:49): “All you cat people get in line right behind the dog people that get in behind the credit card people to get in line. It’s a long line around the block.”
• Dog surgery ethics:
  Dave Ramsey (91:04): “Are we doing this for the animal and is it gonna be in pain? Is this selfish on the human's part?”
• College costs:
  Dave Ramsey (74:49): “The thing that causes people to not be able to pay for college is not college. It’s college choice.”
• Final words on wealth:
  Dave Ramsey (115:44): “These are God's ways of handling money…And if you disagree with him 100% of the time, you’re known as what’s wrong…this is just the freaking truth.”
  Rachel Cruze: “And in today’s world, boring works.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Business debt debacle with Tracy – 00:41–07:47
• Parent PLUS loan conflict (John) – 12:58–19:52
• Divorce, low income, and debt (Tiffany) – 21:45–28:06
• Mortgage payoff/should I wait? (Frank) – 29:26–30:57
• Fun money marriage management (Aiden) – 66:01–71:41
• Paying for college, avoiding debt (Jillian) – 72:06–85:01
• Renting vs. Owning in Retirement (Jolene) – 55:12–63:34
• Tithing and generosity/rule vs. heart (Stacy) – 44:20–50:19
• Car loan crisis & family cosigning (Noel) – 96:41–105:36
• Millionaire by 30 story (Ashley) – 107:32–113:33
• Handling inheritance for kids (Jennifer) – 118:11–124:05

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Episode Takeaways

• Debt is to be faced head on, not negotiated if you have the capacity to pay.
• Family money issues require boundaries, tough conversations, and prioritizing your immediate family’s well-being.
• “Boring” financial habits—budgeting, paying off debt, consistent investing—are the proven path to wealth.
• Avoid destructive car and student loans; consider future impact and avoid emotion-driven big purchases.
• Be generous and obedient in giving, but do so with a cheerful and flexible heart rather than guilt or rule-following.

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Tone & Style

Dave and Rachel deliver their advice with warmth, wit, and unmistakable southern bluntness, mixing practical guidance with compassion, and occasionally, righteous indignation at predatory lending practices or poor financial decisions.

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For listeners or readers: This episode is a masterclass in getting “unstuck” from financial messes and creating a clear, actionable path to financial peace, regardless of your starting point. The calls and stories remind us that, with discipline, honesty, and sometimes a little tough love, financial freedom is possible for everyone.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to tell help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, number one best selling author, host of the Rachel Cruze show personality. My daughter is my co host today. Phone number is 888-255-2225. Tracy's in Chicago. Hi Tracy, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi.

Good, good.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Caller]

So my husband and I had a few opportunities pop up that we never thought would line up and happen that we were able to move closer to our family. It was something we were really excited about. The hardest thing with it was we have a are in the process of selling. We have never lived by credit card debt with this business. It involved purchasing inventory with a credit card and now with the selling of this business, we know we're going to be left with that credit card bill but not the income from the business. And so we're kind of at a really nerve wracking stuck point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you getting money for the business when you sell the business?

[Caller]

We are getting a small amount because of the distance we were moving. We had to sell it quicker. Then we probably could have got a better price if the sale could have went longer. So that money is absolutely being put towards this and then we are financing.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are the numbers, how much are you getting, how much are you getting for the business and then how much do you end up in credit card debt?

[Caller]

So we have currently got 15 grand from it and then we'll continue to get another 20 grand over the next three years. So it'll be small payments coming in.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much credit card debt is it?

[Caller]

So we have 49,000 that we will have a credit card debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. So this business was a real failure.

[Caller]

Yeah, we had just taken it over so we really didn't have time to start recouping the funds of the initial investment at all.

Wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

All right, so you got 35,000 left in credit card debt that you're going to have to clean up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. So what are you going to be making at the new location? What's your new careers?

[Caller]

So we will still have income coming in for a few more months that we're hoping to really pour towards that because there is a truck loan with the business as well. So we're trying to figure out if it's best to sell the truck or yes, keep it within it since it's llc?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not an llc. You signed personally for the truck. You signed personally for the credit card debt. I don't care if it's running through an llc. That's only in your mind. The bank ain't going to sue the llc. They're going to sue you. You are liable. No, you sell the truck today.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much underwater are you guys on that? Tracy, do you know?

[Caller]

So from what I've looked at, the loan is around 38k, and then the cash offer estimate would be about 30.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you're killing me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, well, it's eight grand in the hole.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

All right, we got eight grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so this is the worst business deal I've heard in a while.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, it's not like 380,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's like 38. Okay, one more time then. What are you guys going to be doing for a living at the new location?

[Caller]

So we both have different careers. We will be bringing in about eight grand a month. We do have everything budgeted, so we would have about two to three grand a month to play with out of our budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

To pay this off.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's kind of irrelevant how we got here. You have an $8,000 hole that you're going to have to finance on the truck because you're selling the truck and you have $35,000 in credit card debt, and you make $8,000 a month and $2,000 a month to go towards debt on your debt. Snowball, how much other debt do you all have?

[Caller]

Only our house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good. Are you selling it when you move?

[Caller]

So we already sold and bought a new house. So right now it's just the one house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, good. All right. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, we have $43,000 in debt, and we make $100,000 a year, and let's pay it off. And that's, you know, just run the debt snowball on it. Is there something wrong with that?

[Caller]

There any good tactics for negotiating with the credit cards to get, like, a lump sum payoff? Because we will most likely still have another 52,000 coming in from the operation of the business.

[Dave Ramsey]

That'll be. That'll be nice if it does come in to recoup the fact that you had to take this money out of your cash flow in the meantime because you don't have to wait around on that money to come. You're going to go ahead and clear this debt now. No, there's not a tactic. The only way that people don't. The only way people accept less on the Debt that is owed is if they don't think it's going to be paid. And the reason they don't think it's going to be paid is if you're not paying it on time. And so if you want to not pay your payments for six months, yeah, you probably could negotiate with them, but I don't recommend that you have the money to pay your bill. You should just pay your bill.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Thanks for the call. Open phones at Triple A. No. I mean, no.

[Rachel Cruze]

This is just so spicy. The first call of the show, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

People make. Listen. That is life. Everyone in the audience is like, yeah, Dave. Yeah, listen, that's life, though, people. That is a situation that happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me recoup then for a lot of people. Just come back to it for a moment.

[Rachel Cruze]

It could have been $38,000 in a car that we get. You know, we get that call.

[Dave Ramsey]

We get that call all the time. All the time.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the thing, okay? When you operate a business, it's supposed to make money. Otherwise, it's what called a hobby, okay? And you don't buy a business that small and borrow $38,000 for a pickup. You used your business purchase as an excuse to buy a truck you wanted. That's what happened. And now it bit you in the butt and you ran a bunch of credit card debt because you weren't running the business well, and it was losing money. You don't get to just go, oh, it's inconvenient for me to pay that now when I have the money. You pay your bill.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. No, I totally agree with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sorry if I'm chippy on it, but that's just them.

[Rachel Cruze]

But they had the opportunity to move, move close to family, and so that decision is what caused them to sell the business.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right. Well, let me just say what happened. They went way too fast on the whole thing.

[Rachel Cruze]

I agree. That's a great lesson. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

On both things. The purchase of the business and the move to family. If they'd have slowed down, sold the business for more money, they could have limited the damage they did when they didn't slow down and buy the business carefully. But now it's just like, we did this and we just do. We just go do stuff. And that. That's the kind of stuff that'll bite your freaking wallet in half is you just start jumping around on stuff and it's slow down.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, and it's the urgency. It's what we talk about. Even with. Sorry, this sort of analogy but people that like invest in real estate, for instance, and they have. So it's. What happened to you. You have so much and then you get in trouble and you're. And then you end up selling for less. The urgency on anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

You can. Real estate business.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've often said this about me, and I'll say it about others as well, is right after I get desperate, I get stupid.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what you're talking about. And so once you paint yourself in the corner and you realize you're going to get paint on your feet, then you get silly and you start ice skating in the paint. I mean, it's nuts.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Rachel Cruze]

That's right. Yep. We will not be on the live stream, but we will be hanging out with everybody that's here in person, which will be so fun. And yeah, these events are always great. It's always a great way to kick off the new year, especially with people with their money goals and everything they have that they're looking forward to. So, yeah, it'll be fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

You get about 45 minutes of Q and A if you're on campus for that with Deloney and Rachel and Ken and George. And then Jade and I will be doing the actual live stream in the second portion of it. So wherever you are, make sure you join us. It's going to be an incredible event and I promise you we'll leave with some actionable, doable things and some real hope. In the middle of all the hopeless messages that are out there, John is in Chicago. Hi, John. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. Guys, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

I'm just wondering if you guys be able to give me some clarity here. Another parent plus loan question for you. Back when I was 18, both my parents took out a parent plus loan for me to go to school. And during this whole time, my dad just kept on saying, you know, hey, don't worry about this loan. Don't worry about this loan. Even brought up, you know, staying home. But he wanted me to get the full college experience like at the dorms. And you know, fast forward to now. My mom, my dad's no longer with us. My mom is now expecting me to pay everything back in full when I've kind of organized my life to where I would not have to do that. I have been paying this loan for a while now. And now I. Because I felt obligated. Why kind of guilty? Why kind of guilty?

[Dave Ramsey]

I thought you Weren't obligated.

[Caller]

That's the thing. They needed some help. They came into some financial issues. My dad got sick and couldn't work anymore. And eventually, eventually that. That illness took his life.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I'm sorry. Okay, so what do you make, John?

[Caller]

I make my household income because I'm married is 221.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is the parent plus loan? What's the balance on?

[Caller]

Right now it's at 104,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. It's no minor puppy.

[Caller]

Yeah. No, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Does your mom have the money?

[Caller]

That's the thing. They've. My dad had a really big life insurance thing. I think it was like 200 or 250.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm.

[Caller]

And you know, I brought this up how both. Both of them promised like to take care of this. My mom has got amnesia about it now, but she decided to spend all that, paid for my sister's wedding, redid her entire house, paid off her car, did all these things and still expecting me to do all this. So I don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

How do she used all that money? How is she surviving?

[Caller]

Well, she has her own job, she's working.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does she mean?

[Caller]

Last time I knew it was about 120. And that was probably five. Five or so years ago. I know last year, at the beginning of last year, she. She got really sick. She. We did almost lose her to acute kidney failure, but.

[Rachel Cruze]

John, how old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 34.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old is she?

[Caller]

She is almost 60.

[Dave Ramsey]

It sounds like you all are disconnected.

[Rachel Cruze]

In 12 years, right? Did you graduate 22.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Or 20. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

21.

[Dave Ramsey]

This has been hanging out.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's. I was gonna say this has been over a decade, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Of you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Of you paying it and how often do you guys talk like, when's the last time you brought this up to her?

[Caller]

The last time I brought this up, it was actually a three way call because it turns out I was actually. She consolidated this whole thing. And I was actually paying my sister's student loans as well.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh my gosh.

[Caller]

And I didn't even dive into that until my wife, you know, bless her heart, she kept pushing me like, no, look at this, look at this. And I was paying that. And I was like, hey, you guys need to pay this. I ended up paying almost two grand worth of her student loans. And you know, all this has been combined together now is the 104.

[Dave Ramsey]

And include your sisters?

[Caller]

No, that's just mine. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so is she asking your sister to pay hers?

[Caller]

She did, but my sister just isn't paying it. And she's also living there at my mom with her husband. Both of my sister's husband, that is my brother in law.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, there's a lot of. You have a lot of feelings about it. You're not real happy with your mom in general. Aside from this, I mean, you made several derogatory statements aside from this issue. Yeah.

[Caller]

And I mean it is, I've talked about these things with her to try to get like through it, but it always is just like, well, you're the one who's the man. You have to be responsible. I mean, she even one point said, well, she's your sister and your only sister. You should just take care of that. It's. I don't know, it just. I kind of been a doormat. I'll be honest with it because I just.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And I think you're over there. Well, I guess you got, I guess you got two choices, don't you?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And let's just kind of talk through what happens with either one. Okay. One is you don't pay it. Say, mom, you know, you and dad promised to pay it and you make enough money to pay this and you know, sister's not paying hers, I'm not paying mine. And you guys promised to pay it. I know you forgot about it, but you did. And I'm sorry, but that's what we're gonna do. And I'm not paying it anymore. That's one option, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the other option is shut up and pay it.

[Caller]

Then that's not really an option for me because my, you know, my wife were. We just went through the financial piece and we've paid off over like 120 grand worth of our own debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Then you know what's going to happen when you stop when you cut this off, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm going to. I feel like I have a choice between my mom and my wife and I got to choose my wife. That's how it feels.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, no, that's not true. That's not fair of your wife. Your wife should be participating in this decision. She's made her voice clear that she doesn't think this is right. I agree with her. It's not right. You agree with her. It's not right. But now you've got to decide because 100% chance when you do this, it ends your relationship with your mother and your sister.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I don't want my four kids and not, you know, have their grandma.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's up to their. That's up to their grandma. That's not up to you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mom. You're more than welcome here. I'm not angry with you. We'd love to have you for Thanksgiving. Love to have you see the kids. Love to have a relationship with you. But I'm not going to be paying this. My wife and I are not okay with the fact that the money was wasted on one side. You paid everybody's stuff except this. After you and dad promised to pay this and you make enough money to pay it. Now I gotta tell you, if she was a starving widow or something and you. Yeah, that's not what you've outlined here. Okay, then I might change my tune if I were you. And I might talk to your wife about that.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I don't like the unhealthy unbalance of putting everything on him, especially his sister. You know that's not fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, your mom's definitely out of control. There's no question about that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, but that's not fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you set a boundary with boundaryless people, 100% of the time, they go cray cray. If debt collectors won't stop calling and you feel like you're drowning, you don't need another company selling debt relief dreams. You need real world help. And that's why I recommend Guardian Litigation Group. Guardian's not a call center. They're actual attorneys who can step into the courtroom and fight back when creditors try to sue you. Now look, debt settlement isn't pretty. I still rather have you get out of debt the old fashioned way. But if you're facing bankruptcy and need a way to stop the bleeding, Guardian gives you a path forward. And they don't charge a dime up front. Guardian's attorneys have helped over 55,000 people across the country settle more than 600 million doll in debt. They'll help you stop living in fear every time the phone rings and take back control of your Life. Go to guardian lit.comramsey that's guardian. L I t.com ramsey attorney advertising results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Tiffany is in St. Louis. Hi, Tiffany. How are you?

[Caller]

Good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my husband and I recently split and I filed for divorce.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry.

[Caller]

He was having an affair. So we have a bunch of debt and he's currently not helping me. He was fired from his job and I lived on. I live on a very small income and I need to know how to navigate that debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was he making at his old job?

[Caller]

60.

[Dave Ramsey]

And why was he fired?

[Caller]

He won't tell me the truth, but I think he was on his phone and driving a truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. All right. And, yeah, because he doesn't tell the truth a lot. That's. It's kind of a.

[Caller]

That's accurate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. And what do you make?

[Caller]

24.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. And how much debt do you all have?

[Caller]

20,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

On what?

[Caller]

Car, credit cards. That's about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much on the car?

[Caller]

10,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the car worth?

[Caller]

Probably close to 10.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. You're driving it or is it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Whose car is it?

[Caller]

He took the car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is it solely in his name, Tiffany, or. Okay, yeah, no, both are on it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so there's 10 grand in credit card debt. Really? Because. Okay, so you filed for divorce. That means you've actually seen an attorney, correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so first and foremost, let's step back from the $20,000 in debt and say, okay, Tiffany is probably going to get a whole different career to have a whole different life.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because Tiffany can't do well in St. Louis, Missouri, on $24,000. Agreed?

[Caller]

Agreed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So what do you do?

[Caller]

Right now? I work at a retail store.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 51.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So what are you planning to do? What's your new life going to be? Your new career? Because I'm so excited for this new life for you.

[Caller]

I don't know. I've always wanted to be a nurse, but I'm 51, and going back to school would be crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, wouldn't be crazy at all. Wouldn't be crazy at all. As a matter of fact, nurse is a great, great idea. So I want you to begin to think about those things. And then what that does is it says, okay, let's pretend we're five years from today, and you're making $85,000 a year as a nurse.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like that plan.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now then, how much does this $10,000 car or this $10,000 credit card matter? It doesn't matter much.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what I'm trying to do is to take away the stress of it, because right now, on all the other things, including your broken heart, heaped on top of that is the immediacy of this that's causing the stress. Is that fair?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much is the bill each month for the credit card?

[Dave Ramsey]

On the credit card.

[Caller]

Okay, so let's redo the credit cards. The credit cards are 20. I'm sorry. The car is 10.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I misunderstood. Okay.

[Caller]

I know I did it wrong. I missed. I misspoke.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay.

[Caller]

So, but, and he's supposed to give me half, which he's not because he's currently whatever money he gets is giving to somebody else. So a total of, I believe I pay 600amonth for everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so here's the first thing. The first thing you do is you call your lawyer and you have him get her or him get in touch with the other lawyer and say, we're going to smack this guy, he needs to start paying his half. If not, we're going to drag his butt before the judge. And the judge is going to start immediately because when this settles, at most you get half of the debt.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what I would recommend is you let him take that, you take the car and sell it. Right. And then that gets rid of a bunch of your half of the debt. Then you would only have $5,000 in credit card debt and he would be responsible for $10,000.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you split this down the middle and he took 15,000 of credit card and you took 5 of credit card in the car and sold the car, that's what would happen. I like that plan.

[Rachel Cruze]

Will there be anything in the divorce, Tiffany? No, there's no assets or anything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, he does. How much is in his 401k?

[Caller]

He has 60.

[Dave Ramsey]

60.

[Caller]

Oh, good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, 30 of that, 30 of that's yours.

[Caller]

Okay, that's true. But I believe at this point he is trying to cash it out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, well, I mean, let's have the judge stop this young man. This is illegal.

[Caller]

I did, I taught, I called my attorney and I said, I think he's trying to cash it out. And so I'm waiting to hear back from him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And he's. And he's not paying these bills. And so here's the thing. Your husband thinks he can just walk around, do these things, but the judge is going to teach him how this really works.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So long term, I mean, long term being six months from now, this will. All the wrinkles will be ironed out of this as a part of the divorce. Now, you're going to end up with some debt, but you're going to need more money to live now and in the future to become a nurse. So you really gotta start working on your career. I would say 60% of my answer to your question is let's get you making more money now and in the future.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you have kids, Tiffany, at home?

[Caller]

No, they're grown.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

They are here though, living with me, but they help.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. They're not a problem. They're an addition.

[Caller]

No, no, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good, good, good. All right. Yeah. And so. And you guys don't own a home?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, good. All right. Yeah. I think you get on your attorney and you start figuring out what Tiffany's gonna be in this next chapter. And the short term, what can I do to increase my income substantially while I pursue the idea of what it's gonna take for me to become a nurse long term.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. But yeah, you can't just keep working at 24k and this will work out. Okay. If you had no dad, you'd still be in a problem.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's what my point is. And this is not a pile of debt. You can actually get through this. But I would just not pay any of it right now. If he's not paying it, don't pay it. It's not the end of the world. They're not going to do anything. What are they going to do, yell? We got plenty of yelling going on.

[Rachel Cruze]

He has it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Let them pick up the car. Let Junior figure out how he's going to walk to nothing. Walk to see his girlfriend or whatever. Right. So, I mean, it's like I wouldn't pay a dime on any of this until you get the attorney straightened out and as a part of the mediation.

[Rachel Cruze]

Process, the receipts of what you have and let that go against what you owe too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but I don't think it doesn't serve any purpose right now. You don't have enough money to pay all these bills or a good portion of these bills even, and live. So I want you to live first. Food, shelter, clothing, transportation and utilities. If you have some money left over, we can talk about you paying some of it after you clear that with your attorney. But just trying to carry it because he won't. Nah, don't think so. I'm gonna let this come down on his head too, and just let the. Let the weight build up on the whole thing. I think it'll be good for both of you. I'm sorry. Sorry you're going through this. What a nasty situation. Frank's in Houston. Hey, Frank, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave, thank you for taking my call today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, my wife and I had a question for you because we've been working paying off our debt and currently our mortgage is at 32. That little over $32,000. I do have a little credit card debt. I have a personal debt of 6008. For my business, it's about 1400. So I try to keep it as.

[Dave Ramsey]

Low as I can.

[Caller]

And I had a really amazing year last year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I.

[Caller]

So grateful that we've gotten to this point whether we can ask this question whether I should just pay everything off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why wouldn't you?

[Caller]

With my emergency fund and everything, I have about $87,000 in liquid cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so if you wrote a check Today, you'd have 50, 60, or you know, 40 something. Thousand dollars.

[Caller]

Right? Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why wouldn't you do that?

[Caller]

And I'd be done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Of course you do that.

[Caller]

I was gonna wait till my birthday. I thought that would be a good idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, just. It's called an early birthday. Happy birthday. Frank, you are too. You are too old to wait till your birthday. You need to do it now and say happy birthday. Just wrap up all the receipts and open them again at your birthday and go, whoopee.

[Rachel Cruze]

So funny.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let's walk out in the backyard, go.

[Rachel Cruze]

Buy a nice dinner on your birthday.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right?

[Rachel Cruze]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Rachel Cruze]

10% off up to a $250 value.

[Dave Ramsey]

See store for detail.

[Rachel Cruze]

You know, Dave, we hear a lot of success stories. We get. We get a lot of, you know, problem calls on the show. That's why we're here to help if, you know, people have a problem. But we'll also get success stories. And I feel like in the lobby we always get fun tidbits of people who are like, hey, we're on baby step seven or we just paid off our house in October. You know, you get these like little tidbits of success.

[Dave Ramsey]

We go out at the commercial breaks and Take pictures and talk to people. That's what she said.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. And we just had one. A sweet, kind young lady was talking about that she was gonna go to film school and take out all these loans and then kind of binge some of our stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

And her teacher said, don't. The teacher's a hero in the story.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

And said, hey, yeah, there's a different way.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she said, watch these Dave Ramsey things.

[Rachel Cruze]

And so she said, you know, three weeks before I decided not to go, and I wanted to be a financial advisor, and I totally changed the course. And it was just. We were just talking on the break after we met her. It's just like, it's one of those decisions in life that everyone gets to make. You know, we all.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whether you're on the car lot, she's minutes away.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

From like doing something different from a decade long problem. And our teacher. Way to go, teacher. Hello. Don't you know teachers change people's lives?

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Said, don't do that. Go watch these. Go watch these videos. And then she went down the rabbit hole on the Ramsey videos because there's like 80 million of them out there. Okay. And so if you go down that hole, you may never get out. Alice. I'm just saying the Cheshire cat is in there.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. But whether you're standing on a car lot, about to sign up for loan, you know, whatever it is, you get it. You get a. You get a moment in your life that you're like, which road am I going to take? And I love hearing those stories so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well.

[Rachel Cruze]

Beautiful.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, and. And I, you know, one more time we get to say salute to teachers.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, yes, teachers.

[Dave Ramsey]

They did one little conversation like that took a decade off that girl's life. I mean, it's pretty incredible.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. Awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good stuff. Good stuff. All right. Derek is in Tampa. Hi, Derek. How are you?

[Caller]

Living and giving like no one else.

[Dave Ramsey]

Love it, brother. Love it. How can we help?

[Caller]

My wife and I are. My wife and I are baby steps millionaires. We are invested in the four mutual funds. Growth Growth and Income Aggressive Growth and International. And every year on December 29, I rebalance those investments so that they're even to start the new year off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Am I doing that right?

[Dave Ramsey]

There's nothing wrong with that.

[Caller]

Should I do it more often?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I think once a year is more than enough. You know, you're a detail dude for sure, but it doesn't harm anything. I don't rebalance mine unless I look up and they're way out of balance. Like if I looked up and saw, you know, 70% was in one thing or something, then I was going, whoa, that's a little heavy over there. I need to reset that. But 27% down to 25%. No, I don't do that. I don't fool with that. I just don't want food. But I'm not as detailed a person as you are. I'm more big picture person.

[Caller]

I'm a data engineer. So, yes, I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so it gives you peace to do that. It would cause me an ulcer when I look at the numbers.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I can see the numbers move the next year and it's kind of more exciting for me.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's kind of fun. Yeah. That part from a math nerd. I like that part. I like saying, oh, look at that. And now it's out of balance again.

[Rachel Cruze]

Isn't this working? Isn't that a consistent trend, Derek, because you're deep in it. I mean, like the fact that you've been looking at it every year. Do you see the. Do you see certain ones imbalance over, you know, different ones each year?

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me give it. Let me give a guess for your answer.

[Rachel Cruze]

International.

[Dave Ramsey]

The international has come up short for the last eight years.

[Caller]

And it just started taking off in the small cap is kind of. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

What you're saying is correct. Yep, it's one. Yeah, I see them have been tied together.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so.

[Rachel Cruze]

Interesting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good. Very good. Okay. And that's. We almost redid our suggestion after 25 years. About five or six years ago, I went down the rabbit hole with our smartvestor pro, who's a friend of mine, and he and I are math riddle nuts. And so we pulled up a whole bunch of hypotheticals of what if you went 20 years? Because the international has underperformed the other four categories substantially over a long period of time. It's the worst of the four. Okay. And you've experienced that. That's why it was easy to guess. And so, and I was thinking about just pulling it out, but what we figured out was that it's offsetting because it runs at the inverse of some of the others. And so when we ran the hypotheticals without it, we didn't make as much money, which was weird because the stupid things underperforming, but it kind of was almost like a math riddle, like I said. But anyway, we ended up leaving it in because the hypotheticals that we ran out ran it out two or three different ways over two or three different. Different age Groups and so forth. And it just didn't make. It made more sense to leave it so. Yeah, but you rebalance. It does help offset the fact that the stupid thing has had a really lousy decade.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, agreed.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool, man. How old are you?

[Caller]

53 and my wife's 52.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And what's your net worth?

[Caller]

1.3. Give me a second. 1.3 in our retirement and our house. I got tricky answer for you there. Our house is worth about six, but we just run. Almost done with an addition that 150 grand we're paying for in cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And so you got about 2 million dollar net worth of 52. Did you inherit any money?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Way to go, guy. Way to go, man.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you tell people that? How did you do that? What was the trick? Did you make a pile of money or did. Are you just smart or what? How'd you do it?

[Caller]

It. We don't go into debt. We are. People think we're crazy, but we do not go into debt. We've been. We moved from a three bedroom house to a two bedroom house and been here eight years saving to do this and people think we're crazy, but we don't go into debt and we see the benefits from it tremendously.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And what's your household income?

[Caller]

My wife retired 130.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

She was a. She was a special needs teacher and.

[Dave Ramsey]

She retired at 50.

[Caller]

She's just. She retired 48. She's doing some side jobs just to kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you don't have to work if you got $2 million. Yeah, I got it. Okay. Proud of y', all, man.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well done, Derek.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, Derek.

[Caller]

Thank you guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks for letting us interview you too. Very cool. So if you don't know what rebalancing is, guys, we teach people to put a fourth of your income in growth. A fourth in growth and income. A fourth in international, which we're talking about was being the. The one that was sucking wind and a fourth in aggressive growth. When you're doing your 401k, if one of them grows substantially more than another during the year, in his case, he does it once a year. Sometimes people reset it to a fourth at the end of the year. So you might get to the end of the year. And one of them has 32% and one of them has 18% because one of them didn't grow much and the other one took off. Right. And so what he's doing is he's smoothing it out. Each year and going back to 25%, moving them around inside the 401k. Doesn't cost anything to do it. And then it restarts, and then his contributions are still at a fourth. And then he gets to look at it again at the end of the year. He's a data guy and he likes watching it happen and so forth. And that's a cool thing. So that's what rebalancing is, resetting it to a fourth each. 25% each. Because that's our portfolio mix that Rachel and I use. Both Rachel and Winston, Dave and Sharon. It's what we've suggested here for 30 years. It's what all of my retirement is set up on. But mine is not sitting at 25. 25, 25. Because I don't rebalance as often as he does. Again, I don't, because I'm just not that into the details. I don't care. It's just a big old pile of money. That's all I'm worried about. Right. And so I'm that guy. But it's kind of cool that he's doing that. And especially if you like all the nerdy math stuff, which I actually do. So I probably would enjoy doing it because I enjoy that part of it.

[Rachel Cruze]

I like to see the trends and the patterns, you know, we're talking about over time, over a decade, and seeing, okay, which ones are continuing to not perform as much or as well as others.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, so that's what we teach folks to do. And what that does is each mutual fund has 90 to 200 stocks in it. So if you've got a growth fund that has 90 to 200, a growth in income that has 90 to 200, an international that has 90 to 250, and an aggressive growth that has 90 to 200. So you've then got somewhere between four and 800 stocks, roughly, except for the overlap that you're invested across. And that's a lot of safety because the chances of all of those as a group going down over an extended period of time is really close to zero. That's called diversification. When you spread it around, it's diversification. It's a big financial word. Sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher. Okay. But all that means is spread. Spread your money around. Money's like manure. It's better if it's spread. It grows things, okay? And so spread it around. Don't put it all in one thing. When you put it all in one thing, you increase your risk. And so if you buy Apple stock with a million dollars or you put it in 800 different stocks with a million dollars. The safety factor is way different. Even though Apple is pretty stinking cool and incredible and stable, but still your risk level is way up when you're in one or two stocks. The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed. Living on a budget, staying out of debt and building wealth intentionally. Now here's the deal. Most banks make their money when you don't do that. They're fine if you stay broke and frustrated. And that's why I recommend Fairwinds Credit Union. They actually want you to win with money. Their smart bundle gives you a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the new Ramsey be weird debit card that says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. It's not just a card, it's a statement. Because every time you use it, it says you control your money. Your money doesn't control you. So this year, stick to your plan, don't chase gimmicks or points and partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps. Visit Fairwinds.org Ramsey to take control of your money and stay weird. Fairwinds is federally insured by the ncua. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality and my daughter is my co host today. Stacy's with us in Baton Rouge. Hi Stacey, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. I'm doing great. First time caller but I'm a second generation Ramsey family and I'm so thankful that you took my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you. A financial peace baby. All right, how can we help?

[Caller]

I'll never forget cutting my parents credit cards at 8 years old. So there you go.

[Rachel Cruze]

What a memory. That's awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, we are doing pretty well. We're in our 30s and we made the decision whenever I got pregnant with my third baby to put my career on hold and be a full time mom and take care of our little side hustles and do that whole thing which has been really incredible. We've done that for about a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Neat.

[Caller]

But before I did that, I was volunteering and providing services for our local parish. And since I've done that, that has picked up significantly. So I'm just curious and I can go into more detail, but should I be tithing less because I'm giving more in other ways?

[Dave Ramsey]

The overall answer is it doesn't matter because giving is giving and there's not an angry God Standing up there with a calculator that's saying, I can't bless you because you missed this by $4. Okay? So the whole point of the tithe is to create a giving heart and a rhythm of giving in your. Not to create a burdensome rule. Okay? That's the whole point. Okay, so once we've said that, then the answer could be whatever you want to do. Right? The technical mathematical answer is no, because the tithe is based on a scripture in Deuteronomy and a scripture in Malachi and a scripture in two or three other places, and then it's reinforced by Jesus in the New Testament for those of us that are evangelical Christians. And you said parish, so you're probably Catholic, right?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so, you know, you're reading through the scriptures and saying, okay, what's God's love letter to me? My dad's love letter saying, that is a good way for me to live. My heavenly Father's crazy about me. He wants me to win. Well, he wants to turn me into a generous person. Okay? And so that's the overarching thing we want to do. Now, having said that, then the technical nitze thing that I would go on because I'm a math nerd, not a Pharisee, okay, is just that the tithe says to tithe on your net increase, which would be the money that you make. So if you run a business, your profits, not your gross, okay? If you're a wage earner, it would be your wages, and you can argue about whether net increases before or after taxes. There's lots of good teachings on either side of that. I tithe before taxes, just so when I get to heaven, if I'm wrong, I'm on the good side. Right? So, I mean, it's that kind of. But it's just funny to me. It's not. I'm not. I always give more than a tithe anyway, financially. Okay. And I don't reduce it by the amount of volunteer hours. You know, I'm gonna charge God $20 an hour for this volunteer out of my tithe. You know, I don't do that. And it's okay if you do. But instead, what I would do is just say, hey, I'm putting a lot over here, and so I'm gonna put a little less over here. And God's not mad about this. He's just trying to teach us. He's trying to teach us to be generous children.

[Caller]

So originally, whenever I started. So, first of all, I love your take because I do Think that by doing what I've been doing, the service, I'm providing, I'm attending church more because it's an in mass service. So I'm closer, literally and figuratively to God than I've ever.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're getting more out of it than you're giving.

[Caller]

Yeah, certainly. And they originally offered to pay me. They pay the other people who do this and I just said no because I had a job. Well, so do I.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's up to you. It's up to you. It doesn't matter. Okay. You can, whatever you want to do, you can't out give God. So if you want to give more money or you want to give more time or both, it's okay. You know, it's.

[Rachel Cruze]

And don't feel guilty if you decide, hey, this is kind of turning into a part time job. And so if everyone around me in the same position gets paid and they've offered and I take a paycheck from them, that's great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or if I don't take a paycheck and I reduce my tithe by that much since I'm been offered a paycheck, that's a whole other wrinkle in the discussion. You can add that, but there's just no. You can tell there's no guilt trip on our end.

[Rachel Cruze]

I would just trust the spirit. Stacy, honestly, I know that's such a fickle answer sometimes, but what does your gut say? What inside feels right? And I think that there's a level of that that's okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the Holy Spirit talking to you and you. And you think God's telling you to do it for sure. Do it. Don't do what Dave said. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

If you feel kind of convicted one way or the other, you know, you may have a different story than someone else in your exact situation over here because they are leaning somewhere else of how they're feeling. Right. So I don't know. There. Yeah, it's not a. It's not a legalistic thing by any means, but I think whatever makes you, whatever feels right to you. And again, I think it's the selflessness versus the selfishness is one of the gifts in giving. And so there is something about that selflessness that's beautiful. And however that happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that happens when you're giving your time or your money.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, all of it. So the giving and the serving, you're creating that in you already.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I think you're a neat lady. Very cool. Proud of you. Very good stuff.

[Caller]

Pretty neat, too.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, very good stuff. Very Good stuff. There's just no way you can mess up generosity.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I, you know, we use tithing as a baseline, and then certainly for many, many years have gone way beyond.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's baby step seven. Live and give like no one else. So once you're there and there's.

[Dave Ramsey]

And as you're already finding the most fun you're ever going to have with money. Money is giving.

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely. And my husband is an engineer, and he's kind of fickle, and I think maybe that's why I like to get the.

[Dave Ramsey]

He wanted a rule.

[Rachel Cruze]

He wants a formula.

[Dave Ramsey]

He wants a formula.

[Caller]

His. His rule was that we do the math, of course, and take what they would be paying us, withdraw that, carry the one, and, you know, that's how much we're going to give because we're giving less regardless, because we're making less. Right. I'm not working.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you're only giving on your income. Yeah. You only give on your income.

[Rachel Cruze]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then he could just multiply his little formula times two and he'd be okay. It's all right. It doesn't matter. That's the point. And so. But the technical answer is the tithe. Evangelicals particularly teach Stacy. And depending on which parish I land in, which priest I'm talking to, I don't know which.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, tithe is 10th. You can, you can't, you can't.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know, but Catholic. I mean, like our friend Pat Lencioni is a raving Catholic. He's one of my favorites, and he says, I'm an evangelical Catholic, So. Which, you know, what he means is he believes the Bible. Okay. That's what he means. And so we love Pat. And so it's a wonderful. We've had great discussions around these kinds of things in those settings.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And the whole point of it is taking care of your local church. Taking. And hopefully they are the ones taking care of. Of the city, the town. You are.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the widows and the orphans.

[Rachel Cruze]

It is. It's an extension.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the priests, which is the pastors, or literally the priests. Yeah, but the, you know, the past. Make sure your pastors are being taken care of. And the widows and the orphans, the single moms, are being taken care of in your church, and you ought to be tithing in your local church. That's an evangelical teaching that's been around way longer than I have.

[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Well, buying or selling a home is a big deal, but it's starting to happen. Man, these interest rates are down. They're getting down next to 5% on the 15 year fixed and the market's starting to move. The grass is going to get green in your neighborhood. And here we go baby. Game on. Going to happen. Ramsey Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust that we have gone through through. We've checked them out where they're high octane, high protein and we do not put Ramsey trusted on an agent unless they are a big time real estate agent. So find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free at Ramsey [e-mail] agent or click the link in the show notes. Jolene is with us in Toronto. Hi Jolene, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Caller]

Okay, so I am single. I have no dependents, no heirs. I'm completely debt free and by October 2028 I will have owned my home outright. I've spent my entire adult life intentionally saving and working to be 100% debt free. I am a planner, so I think about when I want to downsize and I'm pretty much stuck between two options. I could buy a condo with cash and I'm struggling with HOA fees which could equate to 18 to 30,000 a year and likely rising. Or I could rent and knowingly deplete my savings over time. So since I don't have anyone to leave money to and I plan to spend my money during my lifetime, how do I think about the choice between owning a condo With a really high HOA fee versus renting and spending down my assets.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very interesting.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, HOA fee.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why is it mandatory that the condo have a high HOA fee? Why are we stuck with that as the only option?

[Caller]

It's not the only option.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why don't we get a condo that doesn't have a high HOA fee?

[Caller]

Preservation.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry.

[Caller]

I think about when preservation no longer matters. How do I optimize?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I understand, but I'm just saying, anytime I have two options and neither one of them are fun, it means I don't have enough options is what I mean.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so that's why I asked about, why don't we find a condo with a low HOA fee? Because HOA fees. If Assume. Let's assume for a second. It's not always true. It's not true often enough that the HO is managed accurately, then the HOA fee should be covering actual costs of operating the condo, which would be roof replacement, parking lot management, you know, maintenance issues, taxes, insurance on the exterior shells. You carry your own insurance on the interior shells. I assume in Canada like we do in the states and so on.

[Caller]

Taxes would be additional.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y.

[Caller]

Taxes are additional.

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, so the only way an HOA fee would skyrocket is mismanagement or maintenance skyrocketed. Or one of the costs associated with operating the condo skyrocketed.

[Caller]

Right, right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the thing. If you rented a condo in that exact same thing and the HOA fee was accurate, your rent would cover the HOA fee. So you're paying the HOA fee either way.

[Caller]

Correct. I guess the question comes down to philosophically, would I own outright if I could pay for it outright, or do I revert back to renting?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, I would own outright. And the reason is this. You're stabilizing the largest line item in your budget into old age because rent.

[Caller]

But then my largest asset is trapped into a home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, house. So what? You're living in it.

[Caller]

I die with. I die with all my assets trapped into a home instead of depleting my savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

You want to. You want to. You want to rent and travel and spend it all?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I don't. There's.

[Caller]

There's not a. I have no heirs.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not evil to do that. The problem is you don't sound that old. How old are you?

[Caller]

49.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I didn't think you were that old. Okay, so, I mean, we're talking about.

[Caller]

A 40 year plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're talking about a 40 year plan. Here, you know how much rent's going to go up in 40 years?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That scares the crap out of it.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's the unknown, I think, that is a little nerve wracking for your home. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you're for your shelter, for.

[Rachel Cruze]

Your place of protection and where you're going to be. You know what I mean? Like, there's something about having no risk in that, that gives peace that if you want to go travel and do other things, things, it may not be as big and luxurious because to your point, a lot of your money's tied up in the home. But at least there's like. But at least there's the stability of knowing that if you, you know, get hurt, something happens to you that your place is paid for. Do you know what I mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, the condo cost.

[Caller]

If I were to downsize, I would pay it for a cash. So it would basically be the cost of my home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Equal to how much money would the condo cost?

[Caller]

600 to 800,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much do you have in your nest egg total?

[Caller]

I have 850 in investments.

Locked.

I have my home, which is about 800.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I have liquid of about 400. So my total net is around 2 million.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What I would do is buy the condo for cash and ride that for 20 years and then remake this decision.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's a good idea if you run out of your money and you're like.

[Dave Ramsey]

You'Re not going to run out of money in 20 years because you're not even going to spend your income that this is creating. I don't. You just talking to you. You're not going to spend $200,000 a year on travel.

[Rachel Cruze]

She might. Are you, Jolene? Sounds fun.

[Caller]

No, I haven't traveled. No, I mean, what are you going to spend?

[Dave Ramsey]

200,000. What are you going to do to consume $200,000 a year? Because you've never done that in your life.

[Caller]

That's. I think that's the philosophical question of at what point do I stop saving and start living now?

[Rachel Cruze]

How much do you make now, Jolene?

[Caller]

I make between 2 and 300 a year.

[Rachel Cruze]

And how are you going to retire anytime soon or are you just going to.

[Caller]

I'm so concerned about not having revenue that I don't want to retire. We have a lot of time to calculate.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would re.

[Caller]

Trying to calculate what my house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I would. I would buy a $600,000 cond. I would pay cash for it. And you'll be sitting on a million to a million and a half dollars making 300k. You can do anything you want for the next 20 years and you can work as much of that or as little of that as you want. You can slow down a little bit and go travel or go whatever it is. But philosophically, let's say a million and a half is going to create somewhere around $150,000 a year income without touching the nest egg, without consuming it. The goose is going to lay without touching the goose. The goose is going to lay 150,000 nest eggs. Okay, and so I should stop saving.

[Caller]

When my 850 investment becomes 1.2 or something?

[Dave Ramsey]

Whatever. You run your number out, whatever you want it to be. But the point is that you're going to have a hard time consuming all of this money even if you pay cash for a condo, because the money's going to be making money almost as fast as you're spending it.

[Caller]

So that said, doesn't it, do we care if it's 30,000 a year in HOA fees or rent? Then do I need to?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, I would own. Because it stabilizes. Because rent goes up every year and it destabilizes this whole freaking plan. You're for. You're 49. Think about what rent was when you were nine.

[Caller]

I know, I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what you're talking about here. So when you're 90, that's what we're talking about, about. And you don't want to be paying rent at 90. This plan sucks. Renting long term is not a good idea because it destabilizes because it goes up every year more than the cost of operating the condo does. And the condo goes up in value too. And you can always liquidate it and decide to consume the whole deal in your last 25 years if you have the luxury of knowing when that is.

[Rachel Cruze]

I think that's a great plan. I don't think you need to make a decision right now for the next 40 years of your life. Cut that in half. And it's so funny because I'm like, she's kind of, in one way, I'm like, oh, she's a little scarcity minded because she's like, oh, I just, I don't want any revenue to stop. So I'm going to just work, work, work, work, work. But then in a way it's a little bit of this, like, oh yeah, I'll just pay for rent and it doesn't matter. On the other end of the equation, you know, I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was trying to like place to Splurge.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, that's it. I think that I would agree with that. Have the home. Home. Have the peace that, that nothing can be taken away from you. It is there. And yeah, when you turn 60, if you hate it and you're going on cruises once a month and you're like, you know what?

[Dave Ramsey]

I predict you will sell the condo before 60 for one or two or three reasons, you know, the downsize. I think I'm gonna live in a house till I die. I live too long. So there you go.

[Caller]

Foreign. This show is sponsored by Better Help. All right, as we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all of the junk you're carrying. You know, all those things you have to do, all those things you think you should do. All of the past hurts, all the past pains, all the past guilt and shame, all of it. When the world feels heavy, it's important to look in the mirror and consider maybe for the first time, setting down that old weight and choosing not to carry it forward into 2026. Therapy can help you identify the heavy stuff. Set it down and move forward with clarity so you can focus on who you want to become in the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, therapy, check out my friends at Better Help. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the leading online therapy providers in the world. Trusted by millions, they have an average rating of 4.9 stars out of 5. And it's easy to fit into your busy schedule because it's totally online. To get started, just answer a few easy questions and BetterHelp will connect you with a licensed therapist who will fit your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can change at any time for no extra contact cost. You can't feel lighter without leaving behind what's been weighing you down. Go to betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month, that's betterhelp hp.com Ramsey.

[Dave Ramsey]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? When it feels like your private student loans have buried your future, why Refi can help you dig out with low fixed rate refinancing and a clear path forward. Go to why refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not in all states.

[Rachel Cruze]

Today's question comes from Aiden in Alabama. My fiance and I have been practicing budgeting as we prepare for marriage. We're both debt free except for my house and once we combine and finances. While I have Extra money left each month. She likes shopping, while I like to spend money on golf trips and don't buy many clothes. Would it make sense to set up a separate fun money or separate fun money accounts from our joint account with a set amount deposited each month for us to spend however we want? I worry that when I take a solo trip, I might feel guilty about spending money on things that I enjoy that she doesn't really care about.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Welcome to marriage, Aiden. Yeah, absolutely, that's gonna happen.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're gonna spend things that she doesn't care about. She's gonna spend money on things that you don't care about. But that's why, together, you decide, hey, here's how much money a month we're gonna spend that we each get to spend, and you get to do it guilt free. There's no worry because it's a set amount. Now, if you go over that amount, then, yeah, there's gonna be some frustration of, hey, we said this amount and you're going over it. But that's a whole other discussion.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's saying set up a separate account for fund money only to deposit the money from the budget, the joint budget, and the joint account into a fund money account. You could do that, or you could just open up a sinking fund. Just do a sinking fund in every dollar.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, but it's separate fund money accounts, so she has a fund money account.

[Caller]

Fine.

[Rachel Cruze]

Nothing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wrong.

[Rachel Cruze]

Separate checking. It feels like check different checking accounts. Do it alone. And it's in the budget. And in the budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, if you get $200 for your fund money and Winston gets $200 for his fun money, where do you put that money?

[Rachel Cruze]

It's all in our checking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, yeah, but how do you keep up with. It's his or her every dollar. Okay, sinking fund.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, not a sinking fund. Just when the transaction comes in and I get my nails done, I drag it into the Rachel line item.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but what if you don't spend the whole $200?

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, that's a bigger discussion of what would you do in any category.

[Dave Ramsey]

If he's saving up for a golf.

[Rachel Cruze]

Trip in any category. Well, in that case. Yeah, then you do a sinking fund.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And just put money aside.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I'm saying. That's the same thing. I mean, the only question is whether you just. How do you do the accounting to separate it and keep it separate so that he doesn't feel like he's spending her money or she doesn't feel like he's spending her. So you do it with a sinking fund if it goes over the portion of a month. Or you could have a separate account.

[Rachel Cruze]

Just for the trip, just for the fun money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

I don't know why it feels legalistic. I don't know. I feel legalistic. That feels like separate accounts to me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't care.

[Rachel Cruze]

As long as you don't do it. As long as everybody has access to it. And you can see 100 and all of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

100.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, but like different line items. Because even in different savings, like high yield savings, you can have different line items within it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Within the actual account. So I wonder if you could do it that way too.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I think a sinking fund in everydollar is a better plan.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Actually, because you don't get into the. It's the spirit of it that's bothering you.

[Rachel Cruze]

This is my money over here. This is my money. And so it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

It has been allocated to.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's been allocated. But it starts to feel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, let me give you an example. Okay. That fixes it. Okay. So like when we first started doing this, you were a bit little kid and your mother would be. Would play the southern belle martyr and spend all of the clothing money on the kids. And of course I'm buying clothing money for work. Right. Period. So she ends up with no clothing. So I ended up to get her to stop doing that. We were using envelopes with cash flow.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

We had a kid's clothing envelope and a Sharon's clothing envelope. And she had to spend the Sharon's money on Sharon.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

No excuse, cuz she would spend it all on y'.

[Rachel Cruze]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'll just wear the drapes. You know, I'll make something out of the drapes. Scarlet Ohara. I'll take the drapes down and it'll be okay. And you know, like. Well, you. There's no reason to be a martyr. We have the money.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sound of Music. That's Maria on Sound of Music. She took the drapes down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

From the Captain.

[Dave Ramsey]

And they did. They did. And they did it in sound and. Yeah, but both at both places. Yeah, yeah. That's where Sound of Music got it. But anyway. Yeah. Still, man, I hear that the important thing in this whole discussion, Aiden, is that you're not even married and you're already both concentrating on this. That means you're gonna win.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And there's a little bit of me. I kind of like the exposure. I think it's good practice for yourself to spend Money on yourself and let your spouse see it. Because one of the things I might feel guilty spending money on things that you should enjoy. And I'm like. Like, you have to learn about that in marriage. Like, there is, like, there's a part when you kind of just hide that over here so I don't have to feel guilty. That's where I'm like, run into that. Like, go straight into that emotion.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Let her see what you're spending. Let her be like, I think that was probably kind of stupid and silly or whatever she's gonna say to you. Hopefully she doesn't say that, but I don't understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

You spend that much money to put a very small white ball in a very small hole. I don't understand. Yeah, golf.

[Rachel Cruze]

I don't understand that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes. I don't understand purses that cost more than a car.

[Rachel Cruze]

So, yeah, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are great discussions to have in life.

[Rachel Cruze]

I think it's good to kind of face it.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need another gun. Yes, I do.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh. As a newlywed couple, I think there's, like, a level of exposure there that's good to live in. And she may feel silly about buying something that you don't think, but I think that's good discussion to have, like, talk about those things versus avoiding it and putting it in separate accounts so.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't have to feel it. That's what was tickling your spirit. I see it now.

[Rachel Cruze]

I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hiding it over there. He was ducking the emotion.

[Rachel Cruze]

I. Yes. I like everything in the lights. Bringing the lights.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, yes. That's good. But the great news in the overall thing is, Aiden, you guys are going to win because the number of people that are smart enough to do what you guys are doing right now and actually have these discussions before marriage. Boom, boom, boom. You're going to be huge. Y' all are going to be amazing. You have a great marriage. You're going to be very wealthy. These are indicators that are just incredible for you. We. Way to go. Jillian's in Charlotte. Hey, Jillian. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi. Dave and Rachel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi.

[Caller]

I have a question about paying for college.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[Caller]

I have the answers to all your questions. So do you want to ask me or do you want.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you asking? Tell me what? First, I need to know the question about how to pay for college now or in the future.

[Caller]

How to navigate the next four years of my life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Gotcha. How old are your kiddos and how many?

[Caller]

We have three children. Our daughter graduated from up in 23 so one down, two to go. And she is married, so she's off of our payroll.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. So we got two to deal with.

[Caller]

And they are 17 and 18.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How did you pay for college for the first one?

[Caller]

Out of my nose and around my elbow and you know. Yeah, well.

[Rachel Cruze]

And out of state. Jillian, right? Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So do you have, you don't have, you don't have the money for these other two, is that what you're saying?

[Caller]

Right.

But I have seven, seven grand in a 529. But we didn't have that or use for her college. And she came out, you know her, her degree cost about 208 and she had 18,000 in debt, which she's almost got that.

[Rachel Cruze]

What's her degree in?

[Dave Ramsey]

She went to Utah state.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's not $118,000. Just four year tuition.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. 20 something,000 dollars a year.

[Caller]

A year for what? It's 52,2 per year at UT out of state.

[Dave Ramsey]

University of Tennessee is $52,000 a year out of state. They don't want you people.

[Rachel Cruze]

Apparently they do. They want her money because it's, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

$12,000 a year for in state.

[Rachel Cruze]

Did she do nurse, did she do.

[Caller]

Feel really good to their in state? Tennessee is very good to the Tennessee state.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. All right, let's move on. We're going to run out of time. Let's move, let's move on. We got a 17 and an 18 year old. They're going in state because you don't have the money. Well, and they're going to a community college for the first two years because you don't have the money.

[Caller]

No, they're. One of them is finishing his first year at the community college and he's going to Appalachian State. The other one, how much is Appalachian State this year? Appalachian, I mean all in housing, room, board, tuition fees and books is about 28.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so here's the thing. The thing that causes people to not be able to pay for college is not college. It's college choice. You choose a college that fits your budget, the kid works, you take scholarships, you stay in state and you choose a college that fits your budget. And that's how you pay for college. After the holidays, a lot of people start feeling budget pressure and it's a wake up call to get intentional. So let's. So listen, don't fall for buy now, pay later cell phone plans that drag you back into debt. Boost Mobile keeps it simple with no contracts and no nonsense. Keep the phone you already own and pay just 25 bucks a month forever for unlimited data, talk and text. That's real long term value and real peace of mind. So budget like you mentioned. Mean it. And go to boostmobile.comramsey today to make the switch. That's boostmobile.comramsey restrictions apply. See boostmobile.comramsey for details. Okay, time to circle back. We have a best not best selling. That's not right.

[Caller]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Rachel Cruze]

I just said it during the break. I said let's don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not talking about that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y' all are right in a family discussion here. But no, we have a documentary, Rachel. Okay. That I can talk about since I own it. And yeah, it's called Borrowed Future and it's award winning and you can watch it for free. And it's talking about the student loan debacle and what's going on as we did in depth detailed research on this ridiculous student loan crisis. And it is ridiculous. There's $1.8 trillion in student loan debt now. And Congress talks about it being bad and everybody talks about it being bad, but they keep doing it. If it's so bad, you have to forgive it, but you keep making the loans. That's intellectually dishonest. Okay? And so anyway, all of that is in that documentary and you can watch it. But the thing that the core thing comes down to our last caller. Okay, how do you pay for college? If you list out five things that impact whether you can pay for college, the thing that takes up 70%, 75% of the space, and the other four take up the 25% of the space is college choice. Because nothing in our society has a wider spectrum of cost than colleges. Okay? So an example being that in state tuition for the University of Tennessee, I said 12,000. We look at it up during the break is 13,000. I missed it. Okay. And out of state tuition is not 52,000. Out of state tuition is 32,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

But with room and board.

[Dave Ramsey]

But with room and board all in, it was about 50,000. And the girl went to school four years and she had 200,000 out of pocket. So that's what the mom said. So the mom's numbers were right, but it was all in with room and board and everything else.

[Rachel Cruze]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's pretty hefty on those numbers. But anyway, so. So you have to ask yourself, what am I getting for what I'm spending? Okay, so what do you get when you go to a college? You get the college experience. Whoop, deep you get to say you went to that school, which there's no correlation between what school you go to and what success you have. No piece of research ever has ever said a certain school, school is more successful than another. None. A lot of people believe it, but it's not true. There's no data to back it up. Okay, so if you want to go to a super expensive, fancy, fancy school that has a big name on it and you have the money, it's fine. I'm not mad at you. But don't tell me that you have a higher probability of being successful because there's no data to back up your statement. So what are you getting if you get basically the same knowledge base? So I've been to the University of North Carolina. I graduated from the University of Tennessee. Both are fine academic institutions. If you graduate from either one of them, we will hire you at Ramsey. Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

If you went to Alabama, you'll have to kind of squeeze through, but it's funny.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, there you go. That's funny. There's an Alabama lady sitting there, so.

[Rachel Cruze]

And Bobby's back there.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's questionable about that stuff. But yeah, Florida. Florida for sure. But anyway, so you see what I'm saying? So the point is, instead of if you could pay 13,000 or you can pay 32,000 for the same thing, why would you do that? And they're literally 300 miles, 200 miles apart. The only thing that she's closer to the University of Tennessee than we are in Nashville when she. Where she's calling from. But she had to go across the state line and ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Tripled the cost. Why would you do that if you're short on money now, if you have the money, that's fine. Like, I've got a friend who sent his kid to Alabama, but he went to Alabama and he's got plenty of money. And by the way, Alabama has actually really good out of state tuition. They like out of state people. So I can make a real funny comment about that, but I'm not. But anyway, the just keep moving. But the point is, where you go to school, you only do that if you have the freaking money. In most states now, you can go to a community college free or almost free for the first two years. So don't spend $76,000 in student loan debt a year to go to Vanderbilt. That's stupid. Now if you. Again, if your mama's rich and she gonna write you a check, I'm okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

If you want to go to Vanderbilt, scholarship grants, whatever yes, I'm okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you want to go to Vanderbilt. If you want to go, I don't care. Care. But don't go in debt to that and tell me you got a bargain. You did not get a bargain. So how in the world can children go to school? They go to a school in a place they can afford, and you make wise choices based on the value that you're getting for what you're spending. And that is huge. And folks, Rachel, you said this in the documentary, and I'll never forget it because I thought it was really wise. You said it's more of a parenting problem than it is a student loan problem.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, well, because the 18 year olds, their frontal cortex of their brain isn't even fully formed, you know, so I'm like, they're still kids. I mean, yes, they're 18 years old.

[Dave Ramsey]

Somebody's got to look at them and say, no, this is stupid.

[Rachel Cruze]

They don't know. And I do think the repercussions of what happens in your life because we sit in these chairs, you know, every day taking calls from people that have 38,000 100,000 of student loan debt, and they're, you know, they're working their way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Out 104,000 in a parent plus loan because mom and dad borrowed the money to facilitate the stupidity that was in the first hour.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So it's just. It is the 18 year old doesn't know, doesn't understand the full consequences and repercussions of this decision that they're making at 18. And that's what's so frustrating about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right?

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm like, if you're.

[Dave Ramsey]

They can't buy beer, but they can borrow 100 grand.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, seriously. And if they go and try to get a mortgage or something, I'm like, no. No one would give them that much money ever.

[Dave Ramsey]

The banks wouldn't give them that much money. The government wasn't so stupid that it guaranteed it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's the thing.

[Rachel Cruze]

So it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I mean, this is the deal. So moms and dads, listen, here's the deal. You go $12,000 a year, you live at home for the first two years and you go to community college. And then you need $12,000 a year. That's $24,000. You got a degree from an in state tuition like the University of Tennessee, University of North Carolina. Okay. Two years in a community college trans plan your curriculum out to where all the credits transfer and all of it meshes up and works in the syllabus. It's not Rocket surgery. If you can't do that, you probably can't graduate from college anyway. So you need to do this, okay? Lay out the plan. Execute the freaking plan. And if you lived at home the entire time, you could do it for $24,000. You can make that driving Uber while you're in school. You can make that delivering pizza, mowing grass while you're in school. Go to Home Depot and buy a leaf blower. Rich people are afraid of leaves. They will hire you to blow their leaves O. You can do this. You can go to school working if you keep your stinking costs down.

[Rachel Cruze]

Retail. Work retail.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can keep your costs down and get through. You can't work while you're in school. Everybody listening to me right now worked while they were in school. Except the three people that said that just now. You know, Seriously, everybody worked. I worked while I was in school like an animal because I had to have money. I didn't mean money money. We were so broke, we couldn't pay attention. I went out on the first date with my wife. I had $1.17 in my checking account. I mean, come on, people, this is college. What do you think this is, the Taj Mahal?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, but what's happened is I know the debt has been so normalized that you live off of it. You don't have to work. Right. Because it's all paid for. It's all right there. So it is a stinking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Colleges have a lazy river.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, they don't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, they do. One does. You can float down the river.

[Rachel Cruze]

No way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, it does. With an inner tube. Just like you're at the park, like you're at Six Flags. Promise you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, we have been at to some campuses and some stuff and you're like, wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just. You guys have lost your minds. It's all financed by state funded, you know, and so guys, choose a school you can afford and get your kid knowledge, the degree is worthless.

[Rachel Cruze]

And if you're a parent, the currency is knowledge. In high school, just knowledge is what.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, knowledge is what matters.

[Rachel Cruze]

Replay this clip. If they're a senior in high school. Because school choice, it's coming around the corner for these seniors if they haven't already done early acceptance. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, you don't have to go just because you got accepted.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know somebody like that.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Tom is in Seattle. Hey, Tom, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

What's up Dave, I just need your opinion if you two would be so kind to give it on an upcoming, rather sizable purchase I have planned.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

My 11 year.

I'm sorry. My 11 month old pup needs an operation that's going to run about 7,000 bucks. And so my wife and I have mutually decided to cancel our vacation this year and we're going to, we're going to get her taken care of. All my friends and neighbors that I've told about this, just look at me and shake their heads as if they don't agree. You know what, what do you think? Am I missing something? I. I cannot see not doing this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'd say a couple of things. Tom. Do you guys have the 7,000?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

And is the surgery. Is there a guarantee at the end?

[Caller]

There's. There's no guarantee. But the guarantee without it she will go lame game fairly quickly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is your. Is it a. Is it a bulldog?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

No, she's a chihuahua mix.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. I was gonna say our, our George camel just spent.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

A sizable amount more than I think what you're about to spend on his and his ended up in a wheelchair. His. His dog really did. Yeah, he's in a wheelchair right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, I'm thinking we've been, we've been picking on George about it, so. But. Yeah, but good naturedly, we love Georgia in down. But he's, he's fun about it, but. So, okay, first thing is the Ramses are unbelievable dog lovers. Okay? So my opinion is skewed. I mean, laughingly I could say if it was a cat. No way. Right? I'm kidding. But no. So I'm kidding. That's a joke. Okay. But I love my little dog. I walk three miles with her in the morning. And you know the thing I run into with people on this question, and I've had this question over 30 years, several times or something like it is. The first thing is, are we doing this for the animal and is it gonna be in pain? Is this selfish on the human's part? So, for instance, I know a lady that put her dog through four years of chemo. That was unfair to the dog in my opinion. Okay. She was doing that because she didn't want to lose the dog. But the poor dog suffered, okay? And you know, that's harsh as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't do that to a dog I love. But I cry every single time like a 10 year old girl when we put a dog down.

[Rachel Cruze]

When we put ours down. You cried.

[Dave Ramsey]

I did I came over and visited yours the day before she went. Before Nala went to heaven. Yeah. And all dogs do go to heaven. There's no question. So it's a theological fact. But the. But so, you know, that's not the question. The thing is, number one is the dog. Are you doing this for you or for the dog? Because I could fall into the category if I'm not real careful. I don't want to lose my dog. I mean, I love them and so I'll do anything. But that's not fair to the dog because these are dogs, they're not humans. And so it's a different. It's a different measure. As far as I'm concerned. You ask our opinion. So Anyway. But is $7,000 completely unreasonable on a one year old dog? If it fixes it mostly. And the dog is not going to be in pain because you are selfish as a human to keep it around. If a dog walks with a limp and hurts the rest of its life because you did this and you didn't have the courage to make a call, that's not fair to the dog. But if the dog is healthy after this and you get 10 good years with, with the pup, you know, or whatever, after this, because of this, the pup has a great life after that. And you got the $7,000. No, I don't think you're crazy. Then if you got the $7,000, you can put on a credit card. Nope. Sorry. You couldn't afford the dog.

[Caller]

Nope, I've got the. I've got the money. And yeah, just. We're going to do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You see what I'm saying, though? But yeah, I mean, I understand that. Because it depends on where your neighbor grew up. Right. My wife grew up on the farm. Farm. And let me tell you, 100% chance that dog ain't gonna make it. Okay. She's got. She's not. Does not have this. Yeah, yeah. She's more. She does not dog crazy like I am. Right. So this $7,000. Nope, nope, not happening.

[Rachel Cruze]

I spent a crazy amount on Maggie's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hips, but I did it in spite of your mother. Yeah. And I got. And that dog had 10, 12 good years. You know, we did spend some money on that dog that was a golden retriever, had bad hips. Okay. And as a pup, we had to do the hips. And so it was. It was expensive, but it was a pain in the butt. But the dog was a great one. The best dogs I ever had. So anyway, all that to say. Yeah, but you're not crazy.

[Rachel Cruze]

Just don't make sure the dog isn't suffering.

[Dave Ramsey]

As long as you're not hurt. As long as you're not being a selfish, immature person and you're doing this and harming the animal. You know what I'm saying?

[Caller]

No. No.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so this is for all the people that are trying, that are going to hate me after this. So just get in line. All you cat people get in line right behind the dog. People that get in behind the credit card people to get in line. It's a long line around the block.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. There is a. There's a spectrum of what people's threshold is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

For an animal, a pet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Financially.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And your mother's is much lower because animals come and go on the floor.

[Rachel Cruze]

And George, I think, is even past you, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think our George, Camel George is over our line. Yeah, he's over my line.

[Rachel Cruze]

George will do anything for those dogs.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And so it's where you fall. Personal value. Where you want to put your money is make sure you have the money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't. And don't. And be a kind person that doesn't cause an animal to hurt for your selfish. Because you're selfishly weak and can't go through the pain of doing the right thing.

[Rachel Cruze]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, it's just. That's a lack of courage on the human's part, and that's unfair to the animal. That's inhumane as far as I'm concerned. But. And I see people do that because they're just like, oh, well, you can't get rid of. Rid of whatever. And we get. We get. Because we all get so attached to them. Oh, my gosh. I like my dog more than I like a lot of people. I mean, you know, it's really. I do. We do get attached to them.

[Rachel Cruze]

So, Dave, big dog, small dog.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like them all. I really do. I like dogs. And Jade. Jade lost hers a few weeks ago. I know she'd had him for 12 years or something. Big old Rottweiler there. And they had to put him down.

[Rachel Cruze]

They're part of the family.

[Dave Ramsey]

He just couldn't. He couldn't get up one morning. Yeah, it's awful. And. Yeah, it's just.

[Rachel Cruze]

Dad's dog now is a little. What is Bella?

[Dave Ramsey]

She's a bear dog.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, she's not a bear dog.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's legendary. Yeah, this. This breed keeps away bears. And I think the legend is true because I've not seen a bear since I got her, so I'm pretty sure, yeah, she's £12.

[Rachel Cruze]

Just know. We all hear. Bella. Bella. Bella. Where's Bella? Like Dad, She's. She's in the other room. Just go. Go get her. Go get her.

[Dave Ramsey]

They give me a hard time.

[Rachel Cruze]

Bella.

[Dave Ramsey]

The whole family. The whole family on vacation. This was on vacation.

[Rachel Cruze]

Vacation. Just Bella.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's not true. It's not true. But yeah, it's funny.

[Rachel Cruze]

We love our dogs, though.

[Dave Ramsey]

We are dogs.

[Rachel Cruze]

But you're not crazy. You're not crazy.

[Dave Ramsey]

All three Ramsey kids have a dog and we have a dog and we love our dogs. And all three of us cry when we put them down. And that's the way it is. And it's part of. You're not. You're not. Unless something really bad happens to you, you're going to outlive them regardless. So you better get better. Get that as part of the.

[Caller]

Listen up, guys, because I've got a big question for you. Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you be better off, worse, or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose. Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money, but I want you to hear me. You're more in control than you think. You can turn your finances around. So let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free EveryDollar livestream event on January 8th. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck so you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead. And you could even win $2,000 just for signing up. Listen, another year is going to pass anyway, so decide that this is the year you're going to take back control of your life and your money. Go sign up for the free live [e-mail] live stream.

[Dave Ramsey]

Noel is in San Antonio. Hi, Noel, how are you?

[Caller]

Hello.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Yes, I currently have a cardinal that's twelve hundred dollars. And I'm looking to. At first I was. I wanted to get a single family home. But now that I've been doing research and looking into getting wealth, I was thinking on multifamily home. I'm just wondering if it's a. If I'm at a good point in my life to get it right now or should I wait on it?

[Dave Ramsey]

You should wait. You should get out. You should get your debts paid off. Either get rid of the car or pay the car off. That car Payment is out of control.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is it $1,200 a month, Noel, or the whole note is 12. 1200?

[Caller]

No, it's 1200amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm 24.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you make a year?

[Caller]

60. But I just got a job offering and they said I, I could be up in there in the. In the 80s.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And, and what do you owe on this car, Sir?

[Caller]

I owe 80.

[Dave Ramsey]

80? Yeah. Okay, let me as kindly as I possibly can say that's insane.

[Caller]

Yes, it is. Trust me, I did not want to get this vehicle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, you did. You got the vehicle and you're 24 and you were sober and you signed the note. So yes, you did want to get it, but yes, you do need to get rid of it.

[Caller]

Yes. Now I tried calling them, trying to see if I could trade it in maybe for something older because my parents basically forced me to get it because they said I should get something reliable since I have two kids and before this vehicle I was in a lot of car problems. Problems and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, you have a lot of excuses is what you have. You're a 24 year old man. Your parents don't force you to do anything.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, there's some strongling. There's some. There's definitely putting the blame of the car on other people. Noel, just so you hear us. I mean my parents forced me. I had to. These are pretty extreme statements that you didn't have to do any of this and you could get a reliable car for $10,000 dollars.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. For your two kids. So you need to sell this car.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't need to trade it in on something slightly older. You need a 10.

[Rachel Cruze]

How did you get the financing for this though if you make 60? How did they. How did they finance you an $80,000 car?

[Caller]

Well, first I had traded in an equinox I had.

[Rachel Cruze]

And was it negative value rolled over?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then my grandma helped me co signed off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, they loaned her the money. Poor grandmother.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh my gosh.

[Rachel Cruze]

You gotta get out of this car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh man, I'm so scared for her right now. No, I really am. This is not gonna go well. Sir, what do you think this car is actually worth?

[Caller]

I. I called today saying what it's worth and they said it's about 5:40.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you were how far upside down on the equinox?

[Caller]

I think it was 30, I believe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so this has already lost 10,000 and you bought it how long ago?

[Caller]

I'd say like eight months ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh my gosh, honey, yeah. No. You don't need to be talking about buying any kind of house. You have an extreme car crash crisis on your hands and your grandmother is at risk. I'm very afraid for her right now. And I really, really, really want you guys to take six jobs and start paying extra on this car. Pretend like you have $40,000 in credit card debt and you have a $40,000 car debt. Yeah. The finance manager at this dealership should be put in jail.

[Rachel Cruze]

Horrible. So horrible.

[Dave Ramsey]

They took an old lady and put her on as a co signer. They did.

[Rachel Cruze]

With a guy.

[Dave Ramsey]

Along with this guy making 60 grand.

[Rachel Cruze]

So stupid.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is. This is. It's not illegal, but it's legalized fraud. This is ridiculous.

[Rachel Cruze]

At who knows what interest rate.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Was 1200 bucks. Yeah. Oh, my God. And he makes 60 grand. So. Honey.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So, Noel, I would be acting like I make 40. And if you get this extra 80, which is amazing, get this car paid off in a year. Like. Like you have some upside on this, but this needs to be your number one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Clear the car.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do not act like 80. If you get this car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Clear the car. For God's sakes. Honey, take care of your grandmother by clearing the car because it's going to land back in her lap because it's going to go sideways if you don't straighten it up. And so far, your track record on cars is pretty lousy. And don't go back over to that dealership for anything. Ever. Just drive by and wave at them.

[Rachel Cruze]

And go on Kelley Blue Book and just see a private sale. And I'm just curious if it's a little bit more right. If you can have it. If there's any more. A couple of thousand dollars.

[Dave Ramsey]

If there's any way you could sell it for 50 and get a hooptie. Tell your parents to jump in a creek and start paying off the other 40 or 30 so your grandmother doesn't get screwed over here. Because this thing's going down in value every stinking day. You own it and it's adding to the problem. So you need to get rid of it. But you're going to have to cover the difference somewhere. And I don't know how. Your poor grandmother. Oh, I'm so pissed right now. At the dealer, at the mom and dad. I'm sad for the grandmother and I'm sad for Noel. And yet they all were adults and all made decisions. Wow. See Grandma's attention. Grandma, grandmothers. 100% of the time you co sign you're stupid. 100. Oh, he's a good little boy. He'll pay it. Honey, he's dumber than a rock. He can't pay the bill.

[Rachel Cruze]

Not you, Noel.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm serious. You cannot pay the freaking bill. I don't care how sweet he is. I don't care if he's out of your dm. He cannot pay the bill. That's why they called you old lady. Don't co sign for your grandkids. You're not a blessing, you're a curse. You helped him get trapped. Don't do that. Grandparents and parents quit telling people to buy crap they can't afford because your grandbabies are riding in it. Unless you're writing a freaking check. Shut up. Oh, my gosh. You parents people. This is ridiculous. You're killing me. These poor people, man. And then you go in there and this car finance guy smoking crack. Who makes this loan. Who makes this loan but a crackhead? Nobody. Oh, my God. You loaned $80,000 to an old lady and a kid. That don't make enough to pay the bill, you crackhead. You ought to be put in jail. This is ridiculous. Oh, my gosh. See, this is what happens. This is the problem. You guys get victimized by these stinking car companies, by these student loans. You get victimized by Citibank because Samuel Jackson, who has a little red wagon carrying his money around because he made it all trying to sell you Citibank. What's in your wallet. It ain't Samuel Jackson's money. I can tell you that. So you guys gotta quit doing this stuff, man. You gotta quit lining up like sheep to the slaughter. You just walk in there and go, I'll take $150,000 student loan. And, yeah, I gotta get my cash back, Samuel. Thank you. And that guy that lives in the Citibank lobby. He don't live in the Citibank lobby. People. That's an actor. Hello. He lives in a mansion that he paid for by being an actor on Citibank commercials with your money. Hello? Hello? Quit believing this crap, y'. All. You're getting screwed by all these people. The borrower is slave to the lender. Quit lining up and tell me I was forced to buy a. You weren't forced to do squat. You're like a grown person and stuff. Act like it. Quit this, people. Noel. I'm not just yelling at you, honey. I'm yelling at you. I'm yelling at everybody that's like you that's out there listening. And they're all going, good God. I want you to be free. Honey, I'm glad you called here. And we'll help you. We'll put you on hold. I'm going to put you with one of our coaches for free since I picked on you so hard and. But, honey, my God, do some math. Geez, this is just. How in the world. Somebody find that finance manager and put him in jail, please, before he acts again.

[Rachel Cruze]

Just glad you haven't picked on Jennifer Gardner.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I need to. I can do hair extensions, but then I have to get you. Yeah, I'll.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sweet, sweet Jennifer Gardner.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near [e-mail] agent. That's ramseysolutions.com. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Click the show notes and say, hit the link says, are you on track with the baby steps? Free quiz. Get you on track. Show you what you're doing. We'll help you help you develop a personalized plan right quick. Ashley is with us in Columbus, Ohio. On the other end of the spectrum, one of our baby steps millionaires. Congratulations, Ashley. What's your Name?

[Caller]

Net worth 1.16 million. Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

1.16. Okay, cool. Break that down for me a little bit. What's the categories, like 401k and so forth and how much?

[Caller]

Yep. So in our house equity, we have 420,000. In investments, which include retirement. Our 529 plan, we have 570,000. Personal assets, collectibles, we have 120,000, and then we have about 50,000 cash.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Well done. How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 30 and my husband's 29.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow, you're young millionaires. How much of this did you inherit?

[Caller]

So we were blessed that my husband's parents had a 529 plan for him that was not used up. We inherited $100,000 that's now a school fund for our daughter. And we got that this past winter time. So we were just over the millionaire mark before we inherited that. But we are blessed that we are able to have that from his Parents.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. Yeah. But the point being, mathematically, you did not become a millionaire because of inherited money.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how did you do it? By 30.

[Caller]

We'Re very boring. So we. I thankfully found you relatively young. I was graduating.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait a minute. That's not boring.

[Rachel Cruze]

I like.

[Caller]

So I found you. When I was graduating, I realized I had a bunch of student loan debt, and I was trying to find a plan of how to pay that off. I found y', all, and I've just, like, followed your plan ever since. So we're very boring. We invest. We are big savers, actually, both of us. We kind of break the norm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you have any fun being.

[Caller]

Yes, we do this.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you do that's fun?

[Caller]

We travel a lot. We buy things that we want when we want them.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the coolest place you've traveled to?

[Caller]

The coolest place we've traveled to? I would say we did a joint trip both to Paris and then to Ireland.

[Dave Ramsey]

That doesn't sound like boring.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, that's fun.

[Caller]

We got to do Paris when I was pregnant with our first, and then we got to go to Ireland to pick up a great gift for one of my husband's employees, which was such a blessing and a really fun time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Very cool. Very cool. So, man, so you have had fun. You've had a life. But by boring, I think you just mean you're intentional, correct?

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, nothing. Nothing flashy. You're just investing.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know. Paris is pretty flashy.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, I'm saying, like, from a wealth building perspective, not like, oh, we're gonna go do all this. Like, all this. It's just like, we just invest, and that's, you know, the main thing, which is great.

[Caller]

Yeah, we live. We live below our means. That's something that we've always done. I never used credit cards growing up. Neither did my husband.

[Dave Ramsey]

What was your. What's been your income through this period of time?

[Caller]

So our lowest or worst income, I was making about $37,000, and my husband was making about 30. We weren't married at the time, so we were separate. And then our best income year was probably this past year before I become a stay at home home mom at $325,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, nice.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you became millionaires on that by age 30? Yeah. Wow.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very, very cool. Very cool. What are your careers?

[Caller]

My husband's in aviation management, and I'm a geologist who's working to become a stay at home mom in the next couple months.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's cool. What do you do as A geologist.

[Caller]

I play in the dirt. That's what I like to say.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, that's cool. How many kids do you have?

[Caller]

We have one baby girl and a baby boy on the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, good for you.

[Rachel Cruze]

So great. Ashley, that's awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Congratulations. So proud for y'.

[Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very, very, very well done. So if we got a 20 something out there listening, what would, what would you tell them?

[Caller]

I would say my husband's advice, and he's very adamant about this, is to live below your means and don't try to be fancy or clever. Be boring. Do the slow things. Invest. Save for your future. Don't try to outsmart the system. There is no outsmarting it. Do the boring things as I. And then my advice would be, I was very thankful that I found you young. I worked seven days a week to pay off my loans and save money. I always thought of it when I was in debt as that I had negative money. And that really motivated me to be responsible and work as hard as I could when I was young. Now that I have babies, you know, I want to be home with them. And there's more excuses to not work hard. And thankfully we're in a position where we don't have. I don't have to work hard seven days a week, but I worked hard young so that I can now reap the reward a little bit older and spend time with my family.

[Dave Ramsey]

You lived like no one else and now you can live and give like no one else. Hey, it's almost like a plan. I like it.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's awesome, Ashley.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well done. Very well done, Ashley. Excellent, excellent. What kind of car do you drive?

[Caller]

I drive a Lexus SUV and my husband drives a BMW SUV.

[Dave Ramsey]

What year?

[Caller]

My husband's I believe is a 2021. Mine's a 22,005.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you drive a junker. Okay.

[Caller]

We're working on upgrading. That will be when baby number two comes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I don't mind what I drive though.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know. You know, I can tell you it doesn't bother you a bit.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's a great car. Lexus will run forever.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Apparently this one has, yeah, almost 20 year 300,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a 21 year old vehicle. It's a fine vehicle.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good for you, Ashley.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. So proud of you. It's excellent the number of times that somebody's driving a Toyota when they're millionaires. The first one to 2 million is just scary to me. I don't know what it is about Toyotas, but they're there, they're Everywhere. And of course, Lexus is a Toyota, in case you didn't know, folks. But okay, very cool. Congratulations, Ashley. You're the great American hero, man. Baby steps, millionaire. Start doing our stuff. When they're baby, baby children, I mean, 20 years old, right. And just like game on. And clean up the student loan mess that they had and work like a crazy person and make great income. Now she doesn't have to ask the question, can I afford to stay at home? The question doesn't come up.

[Rachel Cruze]

Such a gift. Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so he. They can easily live on his income. They've already got a $1 million net worth by age 30, which, by the way, you can do just a quick prediction. It's fairly easy to say. If they stay just generally on track, it's probably 20 or 25 million. When they're 65, that's about where that'll land. So not too shabby. Well done. It's called changing the old family tree right there. So mom and dad left 100 grand.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, and they both grew up, Ashley.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nope.

[Rachel Cruze]

They both grew up with. They both said, we both never had credit cards. You know what I mean? So the house, household environment that you're raising your family in, that matters more.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is caught than taught.

[Rachel Cruze]

Rachel Cruz says, yes, they're watching.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they're going to do what you do. And so financial peace, babies do matter. Yeah, it's a big deal. And so she grew up learning this stuff, obviously. And it's benefit of having, for me, of having been doing this now for 35 plus years, is that I am getting to see second and even third generation of people that have been following this stuff. And the results are astronomical. With compound interest and with wisdom parlayed over that many decades, what you start to see happen. And so, I mean, if you think about, Rachel was born in April, we filed bankruptcy in September, and she's sitting here, you know, I mean, that's the same thing, you know, in a way. And so it's the principles, this is what the principles that we're teaching God's ways of handling money do. Because scripture is God's love letter to you. It's your dad that loves you. He's saying, do it this way. And 100% of the time, by the way, he's right. And if you disagree with him 100% of the time, you're known as what's wrong. Okay, so you're just off. This is not going to work. All right? And so even if you're not a person of faith, it doesn't matter. This stuff is just the freaking truth. It works. Okay. Every stinking time. And then when you parlay it out over an extended period of time, you get Ashley.

[Rachel Cruze]

And those things are working hard and being diligent, staying away from debt. Every time debt is mentioned in scripture, it's in a negative fashion.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Saving.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Rachel Cruze]

Being generous. Always looking at what you're spending, knowing what you have and managing it well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's all of it. I mean, it's common sense, right? That's why the God's and grandma's tagline is so true.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it is.

[Rachel Cruze]

But in a world that. That again, she kept saying boring, boring, boring. And I understand what she's saying because when you go and scroll, you know where a lot of people are finding their financial advice on social and YouTube and all of it, there's exciting things over here that you can do this and Airbnb and you can do. I mean, it's just. It is like, it's a lot of distraction. And so to just invest and pay off your house, in today's terms, that is considered boring. But that's the thing that is tried and true. It's the tortoise. It is just. It always. It works. It works. Decade after decade.

[Caller]

When you're stuck in a cycle with your money, try, fail, try again. It can feel like you're losing your mind, but you're not alone and you're not crazy. That's why I wrote my brand new book. What no one tells you about money. It turns out money is emotional. And no one's been talking about feelings like fear, shame, or guilt keeping you stuck until now. I'm gonna tell you about the real fight and show you how to win. Get your copy [e-mail] store. That's ramseysolutions.com. slash store.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our scripture of the day, Psalm 111:10. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. All who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise. L. David Marquette said, one of the things that limits our learning is our belief that we already know something that's fun. Jennifer is in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

I'm married and I have two children. And our family has started the business Baby Step.

[Dave Ramsey]

Mm.

[Caller]

And we just finished Baby Step two. The reason I'm calling is because our. We lost a family member, unfortunately, and that person left us $500,000.

Wow.

Okay. And the person told us verbally that they wanted it to go to our children. And so we are going to honor them.

That.

So my question is, should I should.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have left it to your children?

[Caller]

Well, didn't.

And we're going to honor that. So they'll get it anyway. They'll get it anyway. So my question is, do I use some of that money to move us through the baby steps because the kids will end up getting everything we own anyway, or do I just keep that separate and say, no, I don't touch that?

[Dave Ramsey]

I would, I would walk it right through the baby steps because that's the way your kids end up getting the most bang for their buck out of the 500k, assuming you leave it all to them anyway.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, yeah, because. Because you're, you're past baby step two, Jennifer. Right. So it'd be baby step three. What would, what would be a fully funded emergency fund for you guys. How much out of the 500 would that be?

[Caller]

I would say 20,000.

Out of the 500, what do you owe your home?

240.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so you still got 250,000 bucks. Roughly 240,000 bucks left and give or take, and that's to be invested. And of course then the home's going to go up in value, which is an investment, and kids are going to be just fine with that. I absolutely would do that. Now, it is incumbent upon you then, because you took a leap forward, regardless of how you took the leap forward. Forward, you know, where the money came from. Okay, let's just say you got a bonus check for that. I still tell you exactly the same thing is my point, to make sure you guys permanently stay out of debt and that you permanently invest for the rest of your lives what would have been a house payment plus more money so that, you know, this becomes millions and millions and millions of dollars in the future.

[Caller]

Okay, so you would apply it to the baby step steps.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, because that's going to be the best deal for your kids as long.

[Rachel Cruze]

As with, with the asterisk that you guys are continue to be responsible and continue to invest for all of this to move forward, right?

[Caller]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. We're following the baby steps. And I just didn't know morally is what I'm saying.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I mean, I hear what you're saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Morally, if the kids are going to get it anyway, how can we maximize the money for the kids?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

The baby steps.

[Rachel Cruze]

How old are your kids, Jennifer?

[Caller]

Nine and 13.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now the other thing, the other thing is this. Okay, I'll just sidebar For a second. I mean, you're fresh in the middle of all this and you've got all the emotion around and everything. Who passed away a grandparent. Okay. All right. And so let me tell you what the grandparent did not mean. They did not mean that one of your children has all kinds of problems later and they're addicted to heroin, and so you hand them a million dollars, which would cause them to overdose and die. That is not what the grandmother meant. And so you're not morally obligated to violate common sense with this inheritance process. Process. So I'm just going to extrapolate this way out into the future somewhere. Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're talking about, like in 40 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm saying if your 9 year old is 49 and they're misbehaving and you're going to fund that with his grandmother's money. Because Granny said 50 years ago that that was a good idea. No, that's not what she meant.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

She wanted to be a blessing is what she meant. Yeah. And being a blessing is not giving money to someone that's misbehaving. So I'm not going to become a control freak over it. I'm not saying that. But I don't want this verbal obligation to go crazy and turn you into some kind of codependent thing 40 years from now either. And I've seen that happen. I don't think that's going to happen. But you're trying to be. You're being very careful to do what Granny said, and that's a good thing. But let's just understand, Granny's heart was to be a blessing. It wasn't to the thing. So. Good question. We appreciate you calling. Very good, Rachel. That goes back to the thing that we've taught for years. And it's good to remind everybody that money doesn't fix things. It magnifies things. So it magnifies the good and it magnifies the bad. So today that money is a lot of money and it magnifies good because they're working a good place, she's got a good heart, she's trying to be honorable to her grandmother and so on, and all of that's good. So that good is being magnified by this. And my point is that sometimes you get out there a few years, there's some bad things going on decades later.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is what you're saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Decades later. And if you throw money at bad situations, it magnifies that, too. So whatever you do, money's not good, money's not bad. It Magnifies what's already there in every one of us. The bad things in every one of us, the good things in every one of us. And so if you're a giver and you're generous, you get money, you become a philanthropist. You know, if you've got a temper problem and you get money, you become a complete rageaholic and a bully. Right. If you've got. And so money magnifies, it makes you more of what you already are. It makes you more what you already are.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so. And that's gonna be true of Granny's money 40 years from today. Yeah. And it's true of Granny's money today. And so what a good question about that.

[Rachel Cruze]

And it's a day. And it's a, it's a. I mean, I would almost put the word dangerous tool in the world. Like, you have to be very, very careful with it. I mean, we were just talking about scripture less. There's as many warnings about wealth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

You know what I mean? Like it's a, it's a, you gotta be careful with this stuff cause it'll mess with you. So the working on the character of who you are is as big of a deal as the money that you're making in your investments.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It's interesting that the things that can bring you the greatest blessings also have the power.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right. It's a double edged sword. Right. I mean, you put anything in there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Money, sex, power, fame, anything.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, it's a double edged sword.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

You got to be careful.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's going to make you more what you already are. And you're going to have a problem with it and a blessing from it. So you just got to decide how you're going to walk from that point forward. So Jennifer, that's a beautiful question and you're really wise to ask it. You ask it in a very good way. And it's very, very, very, very doctor dialed in. So in the book the Legacy Journey, which is probably my worst selling book or one of them, but it's one of my favorite.

[Rachel Cruze]

That was more than enough.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's one of my favorite more than enough. By far the worst. Yeah, it wasn't even close to enough. But the Legacy Journey, we talk a lot about wealth and through the lens of scripture. It's the only book I did that's uniquely Christian. If you're not a Christian and you read it, you're going, who, who is this guy? Because it's all scripture and it's all laid out Exactly. The warnings on wealth are all in there. And we talk about, is it okay to be wealthy from a spiritual standpoint? And part of that is that those of us that are people of faith, that are believers, we understand. We don't own it. We're just managing it. And so I just manage more than somebody else manages. That's all wealth is. But if you. You actually feel. If you take the heart position of I own it, then that's where wealth really can start to screw with you from a spiritual perspective, start to mess you up. But certainly we know that rich people are all not going to hell. That is not a scriptural thing. That's a toxic version. It's people trying to teach theology on TikTok. Never get your theology from TikTok. That's a bad idea. Matter of fact, you probably shouldn't get anything from TikTok, including us. But we're there. And so. Yeah. So, I mean, but if you want to learn more about that kind of stuff and look at the lens of that, is it okay? Because sometimes people are worried about becoming wealthy, like they did something wrong. Because there's a portion of our culture that wants to yell at you, the socialists and so forth, that you did something wrong. And you didn't do anything wrong. You just helped a lot of people. That's the only way you get money. That's the only way it works. So good show, Rachel.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well done.

[Dave Ramsey]

That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Well done, Booth people. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Caller]

Sam.