Getting Clarity Around Your Money Changes Everything

Summary

The Ramsey Show

Episode: Getting Clarity Around Your Money Changes Everything
Date: January 2, 2026
Host: George Kamel, co-hosted by Jade Warshaw (Ramsey Network)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, George Kamel and Jade Warshaw tackle complex personal finance questions from listeners, focusing on the real-life decisions and emotional obstacles that often underlie money management. From engagement-ending financial red flags, family financial boundaries, credit cards, debt, inheritance, and navigating major setbacks like foreclosures, this show is a candid tour of the obstacles and opportunities that come when you get clarity around your money.

The episode underscores Ramsey’s core message: “Normal is broke. You need a plan.” The hosts consistently emphasize personal responsibility, clear values, and the assurance that dramatic life and financial change is possible—no matter what missteps you’ve made before.

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Key Discussion Points & Notable Calls

1. Breaking Off an Engagement Over Money Red Flags

(00:59–08:17)

Caller: Brianna (Minneapolis)

• The Question: Was she right to break off her engagement due to her fiancé’s poor employment history and ongoing money issues? Now responsible for all rent and having gone into debt for a new car, how can she get back on track?
• Hosts’ Insights:
  • George: “Bullet dodged. It’s either this or divorce later on. Nip it in the bud.” (01:09)
  • Jade: “So many people ignore red flags because you get so far down the line, it’s like, ‘I can’t turn back now.’” (02:14)
  • The hosts commend her for recognizing core value mismatches, but also push back on her own financial choices—pointing out that she financed a $50,000 car while criticizing her fiancé’s spending.
  • They both stress accepting personal responsibility: “Both of you had bad money habits. You were looking to him to be a leader and guide you, and he couldn’t do that. He was in a place of weakness.” (06:12 - George)
  • Actionable advice: Sell the expensive car, do not combine financial or living arrangements before marriage.
• Quote:

  “You got a plank in your eye and you’re looking at the speck in his.”
  —George, 05:40

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2. Should I Get a Credit Card Just to Build Credit?

(11:13–19:05; 19:05–20:32)

Caller: Gabrielle (Detroit)

• The Question: Should she get her first credit card in her 20s in order to "build credit," or keep using cash/debit?
• Hosts’ Insights:
  • Both strongly discourage playing the credit game, highlighting the cycle of debt and false “credit score” needs.
  • Jade: “The people telling you to get credit cards… Their view of life is your money is not enough… you have to get credit to have the lifestyle you want. And the only way to get it is to have debt.” (14:10)
  • They debunk the “I need credit for everything” myth, pointing to ways to buy cars and homes without a credit score.
  • George: “When you use someone else’s money, you look at it differently… When it hurts less, it costs more.”
  • Memorable offer: They gift Gabrielle George’s book “Breaking Free from Broke.”
• Memorable Moment:

  “Capital One’s out here sponsoring the Taylor Swift tour. We can’t afford tickets to the Taylor Swift tour. Who’s winning here? Not us.”
  —George, 19:30

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3. Bailing Out Family: The Cost of Foreclosure and Parent/Child Relationships

(22:28–26:12)

Question of the Day

• Context: A parent bails out his son’s mortgage by paying $35,000 when foreclosure was imminent, but now the relationship is strained.
• Hosts’ Insights:
  • The rescue was well-intentioned but may have shifted the parent-child dynamic to a creditor-borrower relationship, fueling shame and distance.
  • George: “If you didn’t save them, they’d be right back in this mess.”
  • Advise: Enabling doesn’t fix habits; focus on long-term financial education vs. just handouts.

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4. Quitting a Job Over Moral Issues & Navigating Stay-at-Home Finances

(26:18–31:00)

Caller: Ann (Minnesota)

• Situation: Wants to quit a ministry job due to moral corruption but worries about her family’s finances with a new baby.
• Hosts’ Insights:
  • Applaud that Ann is in a strong financial position (Baby Steps 4-6, large emergency fund).
  • Suggest working part-time from home, and going through Ken Coleman’s “Get Clear Career Assessment.”
  • Stress the peace that comes from following the Ramsey plan, making tough moral decisions easier.

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5. Engagement, College Aid & Timing Life Events for Financial Aid

(33:03–35:34)

App Question: “Should we wait to get married until my fiancée graduates, for grants and scholarships?”

• Hosts’ Take: Not enough info, but principle is clear: Don’t go into debt for school. Work semester-by-semester to keep options open; focus on cash-flowing education.

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6. Should We Sell Our Home to Pay Off Debt?

(35:37–42:24)

Caller: Todd (Phoenix)

• Situation: High household income ($170k), but deep consumer debt ($182k+), lots of “moving debt around." Considering selling the house to pay off, his wife isn’t on board.
• Hosts’ Insights:
  • Moving debt around isn’t fixing anything—selling the house out of desperation will only continue the unhealthy cycle.
  • Jade challenges Todd: “That's going to be the part that hurts the most when you show the opposite, which is we're downsizing our cars and...selling things... your family’s going to see it, your friends are going to see it, you’re going to feel it. And that’s just part of the process.”
  • Emphasize: Walk through the Baby Steps instead.

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7. Building Too Much, Too Soon: Young Couple Wants a $700K House

(44:34–54:30)

Caller: Joseph (Pittsburgh)

• Situation: Two 21-year-olds, not yet married, want to build a $700K house, leaning on parental help. Their incomes together are about $10k/month, but half would go to a mortgage even on a 30-year term.
• Hosts’ Insights:
  • “There’s something else going on here where you're wanting to rush the process and leapfrog into a lifestyle you just can’t afford yet.” (50:57 - George)
  • Strong advice: Slow down, get married first, rent if needed, save up, and avoid being house poor.
  • Milking parental help just to stretch for a house causes dependence and risk.

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8. Setting Boundaries with Parents with No Retirement

(54:30–64:32; 78:46–85:54)

Caller: Tiffany (NYC) and Elizabeth (Austin)

• Situation: Middle-aged parents without retirement. The adult children feel guilt, but cannot/will not be able to support the parental lifestyle.
• Hosts’ Insights:
  • You are not responsible for your parents’ financial choices.
  • Set clear boundaries early, encourage them to maximize what time they have left for work and savings.
  • “If I'm paying your bills, I’m going to be in charge of how much you're paying for those bills and what your spending is.”
  • Encourage honest conversations and recommend Financial Peace University as a tool.

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9. Rapid-Fire: Getting Out of Huge Vehicle Debt at 20

(87:44–95:47)

Caller: Brian (Topeka, Kansas)

• Situation: $90k in vehicle/camper debt, wants to pay it off in a year on $110k income, but lacks motivation.
• Hosts’ Insights:
  • Get connected to your “why”—otherwise you’ll always be chasing the next thing.
  • Sell the expensive truck, buy a cheap reliable alternative: “A 20-year-old does not need a $60,000 truck to do any job. Can we agree on that?” (92:01 - George)
  • Quick payoff is possible with lifestyle downgrade and focus.
  • The best time to fix it is while unattached.

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10. Inheritance & Forgiveness: Should I Pay My Sisters’ Student Loans?

(97:03–106:14)

Caller: Michael (San Jose)

• Context: Michael inherits $10M+ after his father passes. Dad disinherited Michael’s two sisters due to family estrangement; now they request he pay $300k of their student loans.
• Hosts’ Debate:
  • George: (Practical) “You’re going to be resentful if you give this money. I’d rather them be resentful towards you than you towards them.”
  • Jade: (Emotional) Challenges the family dysfunction; “It is extreme for a parent to disinherit children over divorce fallout, especially when they were so young.”
  • Point to the need for healing, not just money, and recommend Michael only give if he can do it with a joyful heart and not out of resentment.
  • “You’re not ready to forgive yet. But I think you should eventually.” (105:54 - Jade)

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11. Marriage & Money: Is It Wrong to Ask My Wife to Pay Off My Car Loan?

(119:02–127:39)

Caller: Samuel

• Situation: Married 2 years, his wife has $16k in savings and he has $20k of car debt on a car worth much less. Is it “moral” to ask her to use her savings?
• Hosts’ Insights:
  • The real issue is a lack of financial unity and trust: “It’s the wrong question to ask. What does the conversation need to look like for us to combine our money?” (121:56 - George)
  • Jade diagnoses "just in case" mentality as a deeper trust/fear issue and recommends counseling.
  • Advice: Sell the car, be open about past mistakes, and commit to working together going forward.

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Notable Quotes

• “Normal is broke. Common sense is weird.” (00:00 - George)
• “When you use someone else’s money, you look at it differently.” (18:33 - George)
• “You can't be the pot calling the kettle black.” (06:12 - Jade)
• “I always tell people when you walk through the baby steps...it's the opportunity to change your habits, because it's built in.” (39:33 - Jade)
• “You're wanting to leapfrog into a lifestyle you just can't afford yet.” (50:57 - George)
• “If I'm paying your bills, I'm going to be in charge of how much you're paying for those bills.” (60:28 - George)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Brianna: Engagement & Money Red Flags — 00:59–08:17
• Gabrielle: Should I Get a Credit Card? — 11:13–19:05
• Family Foreclosure Rescue — 22:28–26:12
• Ann: Quitting Over Morality & Finances — 26:18–31:00
• Dylan: Marriage & Grants/Scholarships — 33:03–35:34
• Todd: Sell Home to Pay Debt? — 35:37–42:24
• Joseph: $700k House Too Soon — 44:34–54:30
• Tiffany: Boundaries with Parents, No Retirement — 54:30–64:32
• Elizabeth: Stepmom with No Retirement, Debt & Guilt — 78:46–85:54
• Brian: $90k Vehicle Debt at 20 — 87:44–95:47
• Michael: Large Inheritance & Estranged Family — 97:03–106:14
• Samuel: Marriage, Savings, & Car Debt — 119:02–127:39

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Episode Tone & Language

• Direct, candid, often humorous (“Texas forever... Clear eyes, full hearts, can’t lose!”)
• Compassionate but challenging (“You were looking to him to be a leader, but he couldn’t do that. He was in a place of weakness, too.”)
• Heavy use of analogy and story
• Repeated emphasis on owning your choices, clarity, and “the right order” for financial decisions

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Summary Takeaways

• Clarity around money changes everything: Before you can win with money, you must get clear on your values, the true problem, and your next practical step.
• Personal responsibility is empowering: Both the victim and the “bad guy” in any financial mess need to own their part.
• Slow down and do things in order: Don’t leap into the next life stage to chase a feeling or keep up with others.
• Don’t enable unhealthy patterns: True help means coaching, boundaries, and accountability—not just bailouts.
• Change is possible for anyone: Even after major missteps.
• Financial harmony in marriage is more about unity than math.
• Community, clear boundaries, and education matter more than short-term fixes.

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For more, find the Ramsey Show in their dedicated app or at ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, before we get rolling, listen up. If you want to win with money in 2026, you can't keep living normal. Normal's broke. You need a plan. Get a personalized plan and start living like no one else by downloading our every dollar app. Today, Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Jade Warshaw. This hour, the number to call is 888-825-5225. It's your show. We're here to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Brianna is with us in Minneapolis. Brianna, welcome to the show.

[B]

Hi.

[C]

Thank you so much for having me today.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. How can we help?

[C]

So I just have a question for you guys. So was I right to break off my engagement because of long term money issues and bad spending habits? I've always been disciplined with saving and planning for money. But he struggled with overspending and staying employed. Now that he's moved out, I've taken on full financial responsibilities myself. How can I stay on top of my bills while saving and protecting my future?

[B]

Ooh, that was like 20, 20 things in one.

[A]

Okay, well, we'll tackle the first part first. So were you right to break this off because of red flags that were not attended to that he clearly. This was a value you had, and this is a value every woman has is if I'm going to marry some guy, he's got to be able to do at least two things. Provide and protect. Right. That's the reason why we find a mate, primally speaking. And you're saying he can't provide for the future. This was red flags that this guy can't hold a job, he's going to continually go into debt, put us in a financial bind, therefore I'm out, and essentially he opted out of this engagement by continuing these habits that you made clear. Am I hearing that right?

[C]

Yes, that's correct.

[B]

Wow. I mean, I mean, that's your choice. That's your prerogative.

[A]

I say bullet dodged because this is. It's either this or a divorce later on. I'd rather, you know, nip it in the bud while we can.

[B]

Yeah. So many people. I would really. I mean, I wasn't there. I'm just going by what you said. But based on what you said, I would applaud you for it because so many people ignore red flags because you get so far down the line, it's like I can't turn back now. And it's kind of like a sunk costume or scarier.

[A]

They go, well, he'll change once we're married.

[B]

Well, never gonna happen.

[A]

Okay, now, if he called into the show, Brianna, what would he say if he were to defend his honor?

[C]

You know, I. I would say that he. He's always tried to maintain a job, but it's just never worked out before. I previously knew him, he was employed for seven years doing software sales, and now he just can't. Ever since I got together with him, he can't just because the market's been so unsteady.

[B]

And how long was the entire thing? How. How long was the dating? And then the, the. The engagement total?

[C]

Everything was about two and a half years.

[B]

Listen, I think that's long enough to get a read on the situation. It's not like this was super fast. I, I think that again, I wasn't there, but you made the choice. You had enough time to see a track record. And you seem like your thoughts are composed. You. So I'm going to ride with you on this because you are the one telling us your side of it. And it makes sense to me now. He could call in and say something different, but still, at the end of the day, it's your choice. So. Yeah.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

So what's the second part of the question?

[C]

Yeah, so I would like to be able to.

[B]

Better.

[C]

Now that I've taken on. I've asked him to move out, I've taken on full financial responsibility of, like, paying our rent. And then while we were together, I purchased a car. Um, because I was able to make up that payment with having him here.

[B]

Now that I.

[A]

Hold on. Brianna, you went into debt during the engagement?

[C]

Yes. And that was primarily because he kept.

[B]

Telling me that I needed a new car. What were you driving before?

[C]

I was driving a Nissan Altima that.

[B]

Needed quite a bit of maintenance. Got you. And what did you get? What did you.

[C]

I got 20, 25 Mazda CX70.

[B]

What do you owe?

[C]

I owe about 50 on that.

[B]

Shoot.

[A]

What do you make?

[C]

I make about. About $100,000 a year.

[A]

That's a lot of car, even for your income.

[B]

Is that your only debt or you have more?

[C]

I have about 15 grand in student loans, and then I have, like, 2 grand in credit card debt, but that's it.

[A]

Okay, here's my thing, Brianna. I was really team Brianna, and now the more I hear you, the more I go. I'm not sure you Believe in your own principles because you wanted this guy to clean up his act financially while you were an accomplice to the crimes. So it's like, how am I supposed to take you seriously if I'm the fiance going, you really need to get better with your spending habits. And then I'm over here financing a $50,000 car. You know what I mean?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And it's difficult because he drives a BMW X4M competition, so. Which. That is really difficult to get a nice car.

[A]

So you were trying to keep up with him and it's his fault.

[C]

Yeah. Lifestyle.

[B]

It does seem like, though, it was more. Can I. I'm a ride on the fence on this. I hear what George is saying, and he is not wrong. But the other part is, I feel like you were more on the why doesn't he have a job regularly? Side of things. Is that you. Is the fact that will this guy be employed or will he be sitting on my couch all day when I come home? Is that. Did I get that right?

[C]

Yeah. And that's kind of what it had been before, too. So that's why I had asked him to move out.

[B]

Because to your. I am playing devil's advocate here. I'm just.

[A]

I'm just letting you know she got me riled up. That's all I'm saying. She got a plank in her eye and she's looking at the spec in his.

[B]

Because here's the thing. There are plenty of people in the world who are fine with debt. We know that. We don't agree with that, but plenty of people are like, yeah, I got my car note, my credit card. For a lot of people, that's not the problem. The problem is when you have somebody who's not working and seems like they might not be able to hold a job and seems like they might be a tad bit lazy, I could see how that's a bigger red flag to you in the grand scheme of things. That being said, you can't be the. What is it, the pot calling the kettle black. Black.

[A]

Yeah. No. I see both sides. I think you are right to break off the engagement. And I think we need to accept a little more responsibility that we weren't quite the angel that we maybe made ourselves out to be. And he's the devil here. I think both of you had bad money habits. Both of you struggled with money moves, and you were looking to him to be a leader and guide you, and he couldn't do that. He was in a place of weakness. Weakness, too. And so it's hard to fault him for that. As much as I want to be like, well, this guy's trash, and you should. I think you both have some things to work on. Can we agree? Yes.

[B]

No, I completely agree.

[A]

And I hope that if you. If this is a value you have, I want someone who can provide for me. I don't think that means I want someone who can float my lifestyle no matter what and afford a payment. I want you to reframe this and go, how can I put myself in such a good financial position that then when I do meet the right guy, we are building wealth together instead of just making stupid decisions together.

[B]

And there's part of this where if. Let's say you, you know, you've. You've broken it off, you guys have gone your separate ways. If it's meant to be, you could go get back together. Like, you could give him a. That could have been the kick in the butt that he needed to go out and really show and prove who he's going to be. Because the truth is, you've just never seen it, and it's hard to, like, you want to see. You don't want all the talking. You want somebody to be about.

[A]

I love that. Jade is not giving up on love here. Is there. Is there a shot this could still work? Br On. Or is this, like, long gone?

[C]

You know, we have tried to make it work. We saw it, like, right. Sometimes see each other and stuff, but it's just. I don't see any motivation from him to want to be better. He's determined to get a job that's been in the process of about six weeks now, and he still.

[A]

Has he been doing any kind of work?

[C]

No.

[A]

What's he doing all day?

[B]

I mean, you live with the guy.

[C]

No.

[B]

I think you better cut it loose.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the writing was on the wall, Brianna. And the good news is you're gonna be real busy cleaning up this mess of your own for a while. And I think you also. We need to own up to the fact that we made a lot of decisions that were codependent and hinging on someone we weren't married to. I can make the rent as long as he pays. I can make the payment as long as he's in my life. And I think all of that is why we tell people, never combine financial lives or, for that matter, physical lives, living together before you're married. It just gets too messy and. Because this could be on the other side.

[B]

And.

[A]

Yeah, now you're going to.

[B]

Now you're going to feel that being the only one covering that rent.

[A]

Yeah. I'm wishing you the best as you clean this up. Personally, I would sell that car as soon as possible. I wouldn't even work on paying it off. I would get rid of it. There's no reason you need to be driving a $50,000 car walking out of this mess. So best of luck to you. Brian. Hey, it's Dave Ramsey. You've heard me talk about the importance of giving, and I love that. Zander Insurance lives that out. This month, Zander is donating 25% of all ID theft protection sales to Team Rubicon, a veteran led disaster response organization that deploys wherever disaster strikes. Boots on the ground, helping families rebuild and offering real hope for communities in crisis. Zander's been supporting causes like Team Rubicon for over a decade, donating over half a million dollars. That kind of track record shows I can trust them, not just with my money, but helping protect my identity, too. Zander's ID theft protection plan is the only one I recommend because, let's face it, identity theft is out of control in today's online world. It's not a matter of if, but when. Zander's plan is comprehensive, affordable, and you can even give it as a gift. So protect your family and support a powerful mission this Christmas. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. That's Zander.com. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Jade Warshaw. The number to call is 888-255-2225. Don't be scared. You can't DM. You gotta call in. It's the only way. My Gen Z friends, I know it's uncomfortable to call on a phone, but they still do that. I can't text in One day, we'll get there. That'll be like our Patreon edition. That'll be fun. All right, Gabrielle is on the line in Detroit. Gabrielle, welcome to the show.

[C]

Hi. Thank you. My question is, should I apply for my first credit card so I don't have to for everything in cash?

[B]

No.

[A]

Where is this coming from? So right now you're paying for everything with actual physical dollars.

[C]

Cash, I mean, as in we'll get that in just money in my bank account.

[B]

Like your own money.

[A]

Okay, so what is your fear with using your own money from your own bank account with a debit card?

[C]

I guess. I mean, I know that a credit card can help me build my credit. I do have other lines of credit open, just not a credit card. And I guess sometimes it's going to sound silly, but it's kind of hard to let go of some cash all at once. So the idea of paying it in increments by the due date is somewhat appealing.

[A]

What if I told you that that is, that's your body saying don't make a stupid decision. When you say letting go of a lot of money at once, what would be the purchase here?

[C]

I don't have anything in particular, just my day to day transaction. So things like groceries, gas, maybe like a leisurely it here and there.

[A]

So you'd rather lump it all into one giant mountain and then 30 days later have that come out of your account if you're lucky?

[C]

I guess not.

[A]

That's even scarier to me because I've been there. I was that guy who opened the credit card to build the credit, who racked up a bunch of debt on there. And the barons, the balance carried. So I'm telling you, as a guy who did this, you don't want to do this. How old are you?

[C]

I'm 24.

[A]

Okay. Have you ever had a credit card?

[C]

No.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And you've survived to tell the tale.

[B]

I just think it's interesting. Okay. Our screen says I don't want to pay for everything in cash, which kind of feels a little bit like. It doesn't feel like it's as much of a credit card and building. Is it for building credit or is there something else behind this? Like, are you. I'm just trying to understand because the, this might sound simple, but in my mind I'm thinking if I want to buy something, I should use my money to buy it. That's the whole purpose of working is so that you have money to purchase the things that you want and need and you feel purpose in doing that. And so I, there's part of me that kind of feels like credit cards take away that feeling of satisfaction. I've worked my, the money I've earned is good enough for me and I can use that money to make my purchases. Where does that bother you? I like, I'm trying to understand kind of your take on this.

[C]

Like I said, I guess just I, you know, people always tell me that you should have a credit card to build your credit. I don't know. People should need that. Just my friends and family.

[A]

Are your friends outstandingly wealthy that you look up to them and go, I want to be them when I grow up?

[C]

Not exactly.

[A]

So there's one reason to listen to them.

[B]

There's there's a, there's a foundational difference here. And so where George and I are coming from is we're, I mean, you might be new to this show, but everyone here is kind of of the mind. Not kind of. We are of the mind that we don't need or rely on credit at all for our lives. Because like I said before, we have jobs. Our jobs earn money and we've learned to live on the money that we earn. And when we do that, we keep ourselves out of debt and we keep ourselves out of risk in general in life because we're just using and spending the money that we have. We're using that money to pay for our day to day needs. We're using that money to save up emergency funds so that we don't need to rely on credit cards. And so that's where George and I are approaching this. And it sounds like some of the people that you've been talking to have a different view of life. And their view of life is your money is not enough. And so you have to get credit because they can give you the money you need to have the lifestyle you want. And the only way to get credit is if you can have debt. And so it's this, it's this ping pong between debt and building credit and more debt and building credit. And when you do your life like that, you're just constantly caught in that, that limbo. You're never debt free and you're never actually living on the money that you earn and you're in this constant state of risk to play that game when you don't have to.

[C]

That's understandable. I appreciate your sharing that, you know.

[B]

And I want to take it a step further and George can help me with this because I think, Gabrielle, what happens, it's truly, and I don't say this to be ugly to anybody. I truly think a lot of people don't know and don't have the, the education to understand. You can buy cars without a credit score and you can get apartments without a credit score and you can buy homes without a credit score. They. That's not taught in our culture. I mean, we're really the only ones talking about it over here at Ramsey.

[A]

Solutions become controversial over time just to pay cash for things.

[B]

Because when you pay cash for things, no one's really making any additional money off of you. So a lot of companies don't like that. They don't like that we say this and I kind of want you to hear that, like we're teaching you something that you can live and be self sustainable. And no one's constantly making money off you. Right. They're not making money off you on interest and payments and late fees. That's. That's really what this argument is about. You don't have to play that game. So I hope you hear that with a clear. You know, what is it? Clear minds. Clear hearts.

[A]

Yes. Clear eyes. Full hearts. Can't lose.

[B]

Thank you, James. Texas forever.

[A]

I'm curious. You said you wanted this to build credit. Why do you feel like you need to build credit?

[C]

I guess in case I ever needed to take, like, another loan out in the future. Because right now, like I said, I do have three other lines of credit open.

[A]

What are those lines of credit?

[C]

I have a mortgage, a car loan, and some student loans.

[A]

Okay, and so your path is, let's get more lines of credit. To get more lines of credit, to get more debt, to get more lines of credit. That seems to be the path.

[C]

I guess that's what I thought I should be doing.

[A]

Well, I'm trying to. What I'm trying to do is unravel this to show you the. The insanity that America has fallen into. And so when you really look at what credit scores are for, it's a. It's a magic number that was given to us by the credit gods to get us into more debt. And so when you decide, I'm done with debt, I don't want a car loan anymore, I don't want the student loan anymore. You no longer have a need for credit. And even when it comes to buying a house, I bought a house with no credit score. And we teach people, save up and pay for a car you can afford in cash. And then you don't need credit because they don't check your credit score when you pay cash.

[B]

Because. Let's just play this out down the line. Gabrielle. What happens if you. What happens if you do what you called in to do? What? You just say, you know what? I don't want to use my own money anymore. I'm going to use credit. Credit cards. What happens is each month you have a revolving balance, and if you're lucky, you pay it off. If. If you're not, you. You keep some of it there. And so you end up now with a car note, a student loan, and then credit cards. And I'm. My question for you is, what does that get you if you do that? What are you getting out of this deal besides debt?

[C]

I. I guess the material item of whatever it was I purchased which was.

[A]

Probably not a wise. And here's what I found. When you use someone else's money, you look at it differently. When you use your own money, you start to go, oh, crap, that's money leaving my bank account right now.

[B]

Well, that's science, George. Like, that's actual. There's actual psychological studies on what happens when you use credit card. That's plastic versus credit card. That's your debit card versus cold hard cash. Your body becomes more and more removed from the process. The more and more it's removed from being actual money in your hand. Even something like Apple Pay, even though.

[A]

It'S your money, their tagline is cashless made effortless. They want to make spending so effortless. And here's what I found, Gabrielle. Now, for 10 years, living with a debit card, when it hurts less, it costs more, you spend more. You're hoping you can make the payment. You're lucky to make the payment. I found when I use my debit card, I don't need hope or luck. I can actually pay attention to my money. And when I run out, I can't spend anymore. And to me, that is a great way to build wealth. And it adds really healthy guardrails. So that's why I'm recommending all this to you. And I unpack all of this in the credit cards chapter of my new book, Breaking Free from Broke. I'm telling you, you will want to take a shower after reading that chapter. I unpack the studies and I go through every objection that's in your mind. I'll show you how to live live life outside of the credit card and credit score system. So hang on the line. Our team's going to pick up and we will gift you Breaking Free from Broke. You can choose audiobook, E book, the hardcover copy however you like to read. We want to make sure we get it into your ears or in your hands. Thank you so much for the call. Great question. Love your heart around this. And I hope we've convinced you to stay away from these gross companies. Because, listen, Capital One's out here sponsoring the Taylor Swift tour. We can't afford tickets to the Taylor Swift tour. Who is winning here? It's not us. It's the companies with the big buildings downtown. This is the Ramsey Show.

[B]

Hey, it's Rachel Cruz. The holidays are here, which means family time, giving back and remembering what the season is all about. And let's be real, it also means shopping, y'.

[C]

All.

[A]

If you're anything like me, December gets.

[B]

Really busy and really expensive. It's harder to stay intentional with your.

[A]

Spending and that's why I love shopping.

[B]

On Amazon, especially this time of year. Named the lowest priced US Online retailer for nine years running by Profitero, a third party analytics and research firm, Amazon's prices are up to 14% lower across top categories and and beat competitors by up to 5% in key gift categories. Between amazing deals, stress free shopping and fast shipping, Amazon makes gift giving simpler, the holiday season a little brighter and helps me keep my budget in check. That allows me to get back to enjoying the season. What more could a busy mom ask for? So for more information about Amazon's low prices and easy, affordable holiday shopping, head to Amazon today.

[C]

Foreign.

[B]

You're listening to the Ramsey Show. Thanks for being here. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is best selling author George Camel. Today's question of the day is brought brought to you by Y Refi. If you're in over your head with private student loans and tired of getting calls from collection agencies, I know how that feels. You need why Refi? Why Refi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch and they give you a low fixed rate loan that's built for you. So go to yrefi.comramsey today. That's the letter y r e f y.com ramsey. It may not be available in all states.

[A]

Today's question comes from Peter in Wisconsin. My son let his home get to within 10 days of foreclosure before telling my wife and me that they were in Trouble. He has $350,000 in equity. I could not let this happen, so I paid the 35,000 that was owed which made them current on their loan. I've explained to him and his wife they need to sell the house and get the equity out and start using the Ramsey plan to manage their money. Now they won't talk to me or my wife. Did I do the right thing in helping them out? Well, clearly not if it destroyed the relationship. I think it was well intended and a very sweet thing to do. But the problem is they didn't seem to ever ask for your help or your opinion in these matters.

[B]

And it all has to do with how you explained it. Were you like, look at what you did. You guys never should have been, you know, like that's different than explaining it in a better way.

[A]

No. He seems like a wonderful person. I think it's, I think it's on them that, you know, they reacted this way because he said before telling my wife that they were in trouble. So he came to him. Yeah, 10, 10 days before foreclosing. This had clearly been going on for months. This foreclosure doesn't happen after one month of receiving a pay. And he goes, hey, we're in trouble. So clearly he was looking for help by going to the parents, letting them know about this problem. And so I think, truthfully, there's a lot of shame and guilt here.

[B]

I think you're right.

[A]

And now it makes the relationship kind of like a business transaction where you come across like a lender. And now it's awkward because I need a daddy to swoop in and fix my mess.

[B]

Well, they don't say. There's an interesting piece missing from this on whether or not the kids owe the 35,000 back to mom and dad.

[A]

It doesn't sound like he, he wants or needs the money. So, yeah, if he said, well, when I asked for the money, they stopped talking.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That would make more sense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Versus a gift of like, hey, listen, I'm gonna get you guys out of this bind, but you kind of please follow this plan. I bet it was a well intended situation, but my worry is if you didn't save them, like, they're gonna be right back in this mess. And so.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I would love for them to follow the plan. I think they couldn't. They clearly could not afford the mortgage. And so even getting them current on the loan doesn't solve their problem. That's why he's saying, you guys need to sell the house, get the equity out, do the. Do this the right way. So my fear is they end up right back here and go, dad, I'm in a bind again. We're behind three months on payments because they didn't actually change their habits.

[B]

Yeah, I agree with you, George. Matter of fact, James, I think we need to add a segment where we show up at the people's door who did the question of the day and we can ask them more questions.

[A]

Yeah, Peter, call into the show and maybe we can talk more through it. It's a very interesting situation.

[B]

It is.

[A]

But did I do the right thing in helping them out? I think it was a noble thing to do. It's what you know, personally, I love my daughter. If she was in a bind, I would do anything.

[B]

100.

[A]

Yeah, but again, if she didn't ask for it, I don't know. But they asked. He came to him with a problem. My daughter knocks on my door and says, hey, we're on the brink of foreclosure. I'm Gonna do whatever I can to help them out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then steer them to the plane. So I don't know that I could have done anything differently.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it's different. There's one thing, it's kind of like you don't want to be an enabler. Like, if it was a situation where this has been going on for a long time and helping them would be, in a sense, giving a drunk a drink or it's very possible that they just had, you know, a slurry of really tough things happen and it just resulted in this, you know, foreclosure situation. And mom and dad were like, listen, we can help. You know, so more details are needed. But, George, I think you're exactly right.

[A]

I've been like, hey, I'll give you the 35, but you guys are going to go through Financial Peace University tomorrow. Yeah, matter of fact, I go through every lesson.

[B]

If we can send that to Peter to, to send to the.

[A]

The son and daughter probably have his email. Right. Producer James.

[B]

Okay, we'll try to.

[A]

We'll give that to them as a gift and see if we can get them on track. Because I want to help them for the rest of their life. Not one time in a bind.

[B]

Yeah, that's good. All right, we've got Ann in St. Cloud, Minnesota. What's going on, Ann?

[C]

Hi, this is Anne. Thanks for taking a call today.

[A]

Sure bet.

[B]

What's up?

[C]

So my question for you is basically, should I quit my job? So, a little bit of background. My husband and I, we got married, had a baby and bought a house all in one year.

[A]

I hear that baby hooting and hollering.

[C]

Yeah, he is going to be a little bit whiny in the background, so my apologies.

[B]

Did you say you got married, bought a house and had a baby? All in how long?

[C]

One year, Mama.

[A]

Okay, and what's your current job?

[C]

So I work as an administrator for a ministry. And the problem is there is morally corrupt stuff going on with the leadership. Yeah, it's so unfortunate. It was like a dream job when I took it and so good for our family. But now it's like I kind of have no choice but to leave.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what's next? We know you're leaving. We need to line something up. I don't want you just quitting and going. Well, I'll just figure it out over the next four months.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What.

[B]

What's the income you need to try to make up here?

[C]

Well, bare bones, budget. My husband and I will be able to make it by without even dipping into our emergency fund. So that's the good.

[A]

So living off of his income?

[C]

Yes. He can take overtime, which is super, super helpful, but it's not a way to live.

[B]

Yeah. So what, what were you making?

[C]

I was making about $3,800 a month.

[B]

Okay, so we need to make up that income or at least most of it.

[C]

And that's kind of the thing. My husband's really supportive, but I don't know what my next step is and I don't want to put my child in daycare, so I might look for some at home admin work, but I'm really just not even sure where to start.

[B]

Well, let's kind of start by looking at the financial picture so we can know what needs to be done. What baby step are you guys in? Do you have debt?

[C]

Luckily, we're in baby steps four, five and six.

[B]

Good. Okay.

[A]

How much is in the emergency fund?

[C]

We have about $36,000.

[A]

Wow, that's a big old emergency fund.

[C]

Is that too much?

[A]

Well, it sounds like it's a lot more than six months based on what you've told me.

[C]

Yeah, both of our take home pay is about 7,500amonth.

[A]

Okay. All together.

[B]

Okay, good.

[A]

So you, you're looking more for help on the career side of what to do next for a job?

[C]

I'm looking for that. And just if I can afford to stay home with him too. So if could I afford?

[A]

Well, you just told us on a bare bones budget you can get by, but that's if he works overtime. So it's not super sustaining.

[B]

No way to live.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So we need to get his income up or you need to work part time in order for this to make sense.

[B]

So what would it look like? You know, you were doing the job in the ministry. Is that something that you would want to do again at another ministry? Do you, you know, tell us more about what you feel like you're qualified to do and the work that you would want to do?

[A]

I, I put her on hold with the baby. Yell and you can get her back. Jade.

[B]

Let's see, where is she lined to? Sorry about that, Anne.

[A]

There it is. That baby's got pipes.

[B]

Can I just say she's rolling in. Here's what I think. I'll just kind of give you the synopsis of what I think. I think you guys need to get onto every dollar. Do you have every dollar?

[C]

We do.

[B]

Okay, then I think you guys need to get on there and figure out, okay, what, what amount of money because it May not be a full 3, 800, but what amount of money would take you out of that unsustainable place to where it's like, okay, we're not on bare bones, husband's not having to work overtime all the time and we can kind of live a life like this. And Maybe it is 3, 800 that it's all about you sitting down and going, okay, what can I do? What would I like to do? And then I'm getting on all the sites, I'm getting on Glassdoor. I'm looking to see what's available. I'm looking for work from home options. I'm looking for part time options. And I think at this point you're just kind of pounding the pavement, as they say, and knocking on doors to get another job.

[A]

And we can help you with that. Ken Coleman has a great book called find the work you're wired to do. Because maybe this is the career path in the administrative space, maybe it's not. So we're going to send you this resource. With that you're gonna get the get clear career assessment. Take that and then start talking to your friends and say, hey, does this line up all of this assessment stuff? What I'm right? Does this line up with who you know me to be, my personality, what I'm wired to do? And that might be a work from home admin job. It might be something else. And you know, maybe you go make some crazy money and you go, I want to get a full time nanny in house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I don't want to do daycare. You have the options, but we do have to figure out the financial piece.

[B]

Yeah, but the good news in this is because you guys did the right thing, it frees you up to now for you to be able to do the right thing with this job. You don't have to stay in a job where, you know, morality is being questioned or, you know, negative things are happening or even illegal things. I don't know what's going on over there, but you got the emergency fund and you can get out and you can get another job. Hopefully that pays more. This is the Ramsey Show. If you missed open enrollment, don't panic. Most health plans lock you out for the year if you didn't sign up by December. But Christian Healthcare Ministries lets you join anytime.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

And you can join anytime.

[B]

That's right. No open enrollment deadlines.

[A]

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[B]

Starting a business or in between jobs because it gives you options without those out of control COBRA costs.

[A]

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[B]

It's a community of believers coming together to share medical bills and pray for one another. That's real peace of mind. You're not just sharing costs, you are sharing community. And families have trusted CHM since 1981 with billions of dollars in medical bills shared.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Check out chministries.orgbudget to learn more. That's chministries.org budget.

[B]

Foreign.

[A]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Jade Warshaw. If you didn't know, we've got a Ramsey Network app where you can tune in to all of the shows distraction free, including this show. All three hours are in the app. And we also have a place where you can ask questions and we'll occasionally answer those on air. So this one is from Dylan from the Ramsey network app. What does he have to say, Jade?

[B]

Yeah, he says my fiance has college grants and scholarships, which she won't qualify for both our incomes. Okay. Should we wait to get married so she can graduate debt free? Wow, that's very interesting.

[A]

What an intersection.

[B]

I want to know more. I want to know what the time frame is like. Are we talking six months? You know, are we talking four years? I want to know more about this.

[A]

My thought, can we cash flow? If we don't get the grants and scholarships, can we still cash flow?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And avoid debt.

[B]

I mean, there's part of this where I go, okay, I'm thinking traditional college student. So Maybe she's what, 18, 19 going in? I don't know, George. I feel like we need more information. I'm gonna say if it's a year to postpone it maybe. And I want to know how much school is.

[A]

When did you plan on getting married? Were you going to wait for her to graduate anyways?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So many questions, so little answers.

[B]

So little answers. I can't answer this in good faith and really know what's going on.

[A]

And how much would we be? Is we talking a hundred thousand dollars?

[B]

Right. Or are we talking $40,000? I don't know. Can you even go to school for 40,000?

[A]

It's an interesting one, though, Dylan. I don't think there's a straight answer here.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

You should wait or absolutely don't wait and just cash flow. It But Dylan, Colin, I want to know more about this.

[B]

I know and I. Does it have to be for the entire four years or are we talking semester by semester? Maybe you take it semester by semester and go. Okay. You know, she starts, okay, it's about to be November. So the new semester comes up here after Christmas break. Maybe she does that one and you guys reassess and go.

[A]

Can we cash flow the rest.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And just combine incomes and get married and we've got it from here. So that, that would kind of be my thing is how can we put ourselves in a position to not need the grants and scholarships if we're itching to get that wedding and get married?

[B]

Yeah. Well, either way, either way we don't go into debt. I think that's the key point coming out of here. Debt's not on the table. And if that, if it means you have to wait a little bit, that might be the, the question, the, the solution.

[A]

All right, we got. That was good, Good question though. All right.

[B]

It was. All right, we need more details.

[A]

Let's go to Todd in Phoenix, who we can actually talk to. That's nice to. With you.

[C]

Hi. My wife and I, we've been kind of going back and forth on selling our home to pay off debt. I've been kind of an idiot the last few years.

[B]

We can all say that at some point in our lives.

[A]

Thank you for having the self awareness.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Hold money out to build a pool and these things we probably didn't need to do. And you know, we, I guess the issue, we pay our bills, we eat, we live, you know, pretty, pretty normal lives, but it's gotten tighter and tighter and it feels like we're not really moving at all. Kind of just spinning our wheels and.

[A]

So what's your household income?

[C]

About 170.

[A]

And how much consumer debt do you have? Everything but the mortgage.

[C]

About 182.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, you're feeling it. What kind of debt? So, yeah, tell us, can you break down that 182? And by the way, does that include the mortgage?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

No, it doesn't. Okay, can you break it down for us?

[C]

So we did a HELOC for 60 and built a pool and actually paid off some debt with that, which we then kind of racked up again. Another personal loan for about 57. I've got a car loan that's got 17 on it.

[B]

What was the personal loan for? What'd you spend the 50? Is it 57,000 or 5,750 7,000. Okay, what was that for?

[C]

That was really stupid. I outsmart myself from time to time. And I thought, okay, I'm going to do this personal loan and we're going to pay off debt. Like we paid off both of our cars and used it what I thought was kind of the right way, but then have since just kind of racked up money in other areas.

[A]

Okay, so you took on debt to pay off other debt while changing zero habits, and you are right back to where you were.

[B]

That's a cautionary tale for anybody listening. We talk about that all the time. So you're teaching a lot of people. Thank you, Todd, for being transparent. What else do you have? So the 57,000 personal loan. What's next?

[C]

I've got the. Now I have another car loan now for 17, about 20 grand in credit card debt and then 28. And like I did a debt consolidation kind of thing to get rid of. It's kind of same same thing. Get rid of credit cards.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[C]

Transferred to zero, you know, zero percent.

[A]

Like, are we done playing the game? You think like, are you. You're like, all right, yeah, I'm not going to move debt around to other debt. I want a way out. So what are you thinking about doing?

[C]

Well, so debating selling out. Like, my wife is not. Not on board.

[B]

You wanted to sell the house.

[C]

Possibly selling our house to pay off. Pay off debt. But it wouldn't. It wouldn't pay off everything.

[B]

But do you want to know why I don't like that for you? Do you want to know why I don't like that for you? Because it's the same thing you've been doing.

[A]

It's another one of Todd's schemes. Todd shortcuts.

[B]

And I think, and don't get me wrong, when people get a great opportunity, maybe they get a large sum of money, they get an inheritance, they get a large bonus, or they were going to move anyway and it ends up clearing their debt. I'm happy for them. But you have laid out a very long pattern of the same behavior. And I'm not getting on to you for it. I'm just telling you what I see based on what you said. And I'm worried because the worst thing ever, Todd, would be that you sell your house even when your wife didn't want to and you wind up in debt again. So for you.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Walking through the. Because I always tell people when you walk through the baby steps, right, George, that is the opportunity for you to change your habits because it's built in. You can't get out of the baby steps without changing your habits. It's automatic, almost. Yeah. And so I. As. As painful and as tough as it can be, I would prescribe, if I were the person writing the prescription, that you walk through the baby steps and you do this the old fashioned way.

[C]

Okay. And we've done that before. I mean, we have, we have been relatively debt, minus a car payment or something. You know, sure, we've paid off credit cards before. We've paid, you know, but you've never.

[A]

Been completely debt free while you've been married.

[C]

No. Now, I mean, when we first bought our house, the only thing we had was the house and a car loan.

[A]

Is your wife on? Is she on board to do the baby steps? Because I think what you're gonna have to go back to her and say is, all right, fine, we won't sell the house, but we're gonna have to sacrifice like crazy.

[C]

No, she. She's much, much more responsible than I am.

[B]

Okay, I was gonna ask, who's the spender?

[C]

It's me. And she doesn't insist on anything. Like, she doesn't ask for, you know, to do any of the things that it's mostly like.

[A]

So she's been a passive passenger for all of your schemes?

[C]

Yeah. She never, she never tells me now.

[A]

Not even a disdainful. Look, I don't, I don't think my wife would allow me to do all this and not like have a blow up argument yelling at me. How has she been totally cool with.

[C]

All of this since we. I mean, we pair, but like, you wouldn't, you know, she doesn't feel it looking in. We pay our bills, we payment on anything. And you know, 20 years, it's so everything is comfortable, but it's less comfortable.

[B]

And that's what I want to warn you about, Todd, going into this, it's George. And I see both sides of this all the time. When people call in and their income is low and they've got to go out and hustle and grind to get the money, it's almost easier for them to do what we teach than a person like you who has a great income and you're gonna have to downsize. And kind of what you just said before, like the debt didn't really show. We were able to cover it up and make the payments on time. When you get out of debt, I'm just letting you know right now it shows and it's going to show. And that same part of you that kind of liked being able to show off with the money and the pool and doing all those things. I'm talking to you because I recognize myself in what you're saying. That same part of you that liked showing that that's going to be the part that hurts the most when you show the opposite, which is we're downsizing our cars and we're downsizing and we're selling things and we don't go out as much and I don't buy the things that I used to buy. Your family's going to see it, your friends are going to see it, you're going to feel it. And that's just part of the process. Don't let that deter you. That's how you know it's working. That's how you know the medicine's getting in.

[A]

That's right. So let's get to work. I mean, 60k a year thrown at this debt. Three years, it's all gone. Making 170. How do we find that margin? We need to make more, we need to spend less. Let's get to it. Thanks for the call, Todd. That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Thank you to Jade Warshaw, all the folks in the booth, and you, America. We be back before you know it. I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget, guys. I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest. Early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got netsuite. That was years ago and we've never looked back. See, netsuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business for real time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags, inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data, stop wasting time, and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour [e-mail] Ramsey that's netsuite.com Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by best selling author Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Joseph is in Pittsburgh. Up next. What's going on? Joseph?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

What's happening?

[C]

What's going on? How are you?

[A]

Good. What's your question? Today.

[C]

My girlfriend going to be fiance and I are going to be building a house costing around $700,000 and we want to know if we're way over our heads or if this is actually feasible.

[A]

Numbers aside, you're in way over your heads. There's not even a ring on the finger. And you're going to sign up for a mortgage and put your names on a deed together?

[C]

No, the. By the time that the deed is there, there would be a ring on the finger.

[A]

So this is going to be a new build and you're just hoping that all the plans work out perfectly.

[C]

Yes, we, we do have the ability to live with either of our parents rental free. Obviously that's not ideal, but we're going to have to do that while we have a place.

[A]

Why do we have to do any of this? Yes, tell. Let me lay out a different path. You tell me why it doesn't work for you guys. Why not get engaged, get married, rent together, save up on your own and then purchase a house or build when you're financially ready?

[B]

Yeah. What's the rush?

[C]

So we would like to start a family early around 2028, 2027. And our initial thoughts are renting is putting money into a place that doesn't build us wealth. So we might as well put it towards a house that's going to be building us wealth. And if we have to live with our parents for a year or two, we're perfectly fine with that because we do have stable jobs that we're able to.

[A]

How much money do you guys have? Right.

[C]

Make money off of? Right now we have about $60,000 in savings and then a little bit more in checking.

[B]

How much do you plan on putting down on this $700,000 house?

[C]

We are looking to put down around between 100 and 130,000 down the house. And then her parents are extremely wealthy and they were planning on matching whatever.

[A]

Whatever you put.

[B]

So. 260?

[C]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And why do you need a $700,000 home?

[C]

As newlyweds in Pittsburgh, we are looking to have kids. So it's in the suburbs and we're going to be building so that we don't have as many maintenance house issues. Simply put, we're trying to set ourselves up for the Future where we don't have to move, we don't have to do all these other things. Just on that path of get a house and live there.

[B]

What's your income?

[C]

Not a custom build. Our income. We are both around 32 to 35,000amonth.

[A]

A month?

[C]

Yes. And that is not including commission. So you Both are not 1000, 3200.

[A]

So it's like, well yeah, you guys are making a million dollars. Okay. So you're making like 70 grand and you're. How are you going to afford a $5,000 a month mortgage?

[B]

Yeah, that's what I'm doing because I just. We both did the math. That's funny.

[C]

So we also. She has commission that she's an insurance agent so she has commission coming back for her. I also own my own company that brings in two to 3,000 as well. On top of that, a month.

[B]

So you're at 10,000amonth.

[C]

About that, yeah.

[A]

So we're already setting ourselves up where half of our take home pay goes toward the mortgage.

[B]

Yeah, you're still at half. Before you were even worse. But Even with the 10,000, what I'm seeing on here, 4, 500 for the mortgage, if you put down 260 on a $700,000 house, your house poor.

[C]

Right, Right.

[B]

And you're fine with that?

[C]

No, we're not fine with that at all. We're obviously going to be expanding our, our income. We're trying to see if this is feasible now because we do have career projections going forward that it won't be anywhere close to that as well as. So my business and her commission are.

[B]

Double everything you're saying? Joseph, I'm with you. I love dreams like I love a good dream. I love to plan, I love goals. But you're setting yourself up in a situation where everything must go as planned for this to work out. And even if it does go as planned, you're still setting yourself up for several years of a situation where Your house is 50%, where your house poor for several years. So even if everything is perfect, you're still setting that up, which is not good. I truly, truly would love for you to slow down a little bit on this and say, okay, let's do all of this, but let's just do it in the right order and at the right time. Let's get married then. If you want to live with your parents, that's your prerogative. I wouldn't do it. But if you want to live with the parents to save more money faster, like that's yalls choice if you want to do that and then save up. Make sure when you do buy a house when it's time that it's the right percentage of your take home. Make it to where you're not house poor. You have this amazing deal where your in laws are going to match that amount. That's awesome. Milk it for all it's worth and make sure you get to a point where you can get this thing to 25%. Okay. Then you're in a situation. I'm fine with you guys doing this thing believing that this is going to be the only house you ever buy for the next 20 years. If you want to believe that, that's okay. But let's. Can we just do it right? Can we pump the brakes just a little so it's all done in the right time?

[C]

Yeah. Is this a thing where to increase our incomes first or a savings and emergency fund kind of deal?

[B]

I think it's both. And you said that there's a. There's a path where both of you guys earn more and it's. It's as you do that you're saving up more too. Right? Because I'm also looking at this on a 15 year fixed. My guess is that you were looking at it on a 30 year. Am I right?

[C]

I. I have both in front of me. But yes, I was looking at a 30 year fix.

[B]

And again, all that. You're doing that because you're trying to go f. I want to go fast. Why? You have your whole life together. I get it. I know. I get.

[C]

So I. We are both 21. Who.

[A]

Who told you it's too late? Who told you you have to rush into this or else and you got to do this by this time and we're going to make this much. I just think we're. There's something else going on here where you're wanting to rush the process and leapfrog into a lifestyle that you just can't afford yet.

[C]

No. We've been dating for about four years and going to be graduating this upcoming May from college. I'm working around 50 to 60 hours a week. She's working 30, going to be 40 this upcoming semester. It was just one of those things where we were looking at it. Yes, we were dreaming big and we saw that we could afford it and we would still have extra income coming out.

[B]

She couldn't afford it.

[A]

It's already artificially propped up with the in laws money. And so I would go with what you guys can afford. And if you can get a $400,000 three bedroom. I would do that. And have a small mortgage that you can knock out quickly and you can upgrade over time. Because the truth is you're going to hate your house five years from now for whatever reason and you're going to move. It's okay to move six years from now as your life changes, but we don't need to plan for, well, one day we're going to have five kids. So we might as well get the five bedroom now and just get ahead of it. We don't even have a ring on the finger. So I would just do things in order. And I love how excited you are. You're a planner, you're futuristic. I have a lot of that in me. But I know I fall flat on my face when I make too many plans and one domino doesn't work out. What if she stays home once you guys have kids and you go, oh my gosh. Well we projected that her income would be a hundred thousand by now. This totally screws up our plan. So I would move real slow and realize you don't need the lifestyle that her parents have today. At 21 years old, it's okay for it to take a while. That's actually healthy. After the holidays a lot of people start feeling budget pressure and it's a wake up call to get intentional. So listen, don't fall for buy now, pay later cell phone plans that drag you back into debt. Boost Mobile keeps it simple with no contracts and no nonsense. Keep the phone you already own and pay just 25 bucks a month forever for unlimited data, talk and text. That's real long term value and real peace of mind. So budget like you mean it and go to boostmobile.comramsey today to make the switch. That's boostmobile.comramsey restrictions apply. See boostmobile.comramsey for details. The all new everydollar is here. You've heard us talk about it and now it's way more than just our world class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. And the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So start everydollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. Tiffany is up next in New York City. What's going on Tiffany?

[C]

Hi George and Jake. Can you hear me well?

[A]

Yes. What's going on?

[C]

Oh okay, perfect. So my mother in law, she is currently 60 years old. She has nothing safe for retirement. She's pretty much banking on the idea that my husband and I would take care of her when she's physically unable to work anymore.

[B]

Is she, what's her, what's her health like now at 60?

[C]

So she is blind in one eye. So she used to work at a nail salon, but because after losing bite in one eye she is unable to work there, she is currently working as ironically as a caregiver.

[B]

Okay, what does she earn? Do you know?

[C]

I don't know the exact amount, but I do know it covers basically her necessities. Rent, utilities, food and transportation.

[B]

So has she, is. How long has she been single? How long has your father in law been out of the picture?

[C]

So father in law is still in the picture, but they're separated, they're divorced.

[B]

Okay, and how long. But how long has that been?

[C]

I would say over 20 years.

[B]

Okay, so she's had. My point is she's had time to adjust to life on her own and you're just saying she's, she just does the bare minimum. Is that what you're.

[C]

Yeah. So pretty much she was good up until she couldn't work as a nail technician anymore. And then with her current job now she can only take on so many hours because she says physically she can't work full time. So basically she's just doing what she can. But I'm just worried because she has, she really has nothing saved up for retirement. She did have a, I think she had like 20k saved up, but then when she was out of the job after she lost her job working as nail tech, she kind of went through all that. So she's basically at nothing now.

[B]

What's your husband say about all this? What's he think?

[C]

So their relationship. Their relationship is a little bit of an interesting one. She recently got back into my husband life. I would say since 2020, their relationship was a little bit strained because when his parents did divorce, she left the picture. And my husband was, I believe he was a teen when this had happened. So she only recently got back into the picture around the time my husband and I were dating.

[B]

Wow, interesting.

[A]

So is he wanting to help her at all in any way or is he just. Are you guys wanting to set up a boundary to say, hey, we can't support you in any way?

[C]

I think he's at a situation where of course he doesn't want his mother out on the street, you know, if something, God forbid, something more to happen, but he also would. I, we both kind of agree that there would be a lot of resentment towards her. We have to bear all the Financial responsibilities.

[B]

What's her living situation? Is she a renter? Does she have a house? How does she live?

[C]

So she. Yes. So she is renting, but she's renting with two other roommates.

[B]

Great.

[A]

So it's like Golden Girls over there or what?

[C]

Pretty much.

[B]

That is awesome.

[C]

$1,000. So she explicitly. It is New York City, so rent's expensive.

[B]

So she has $1,000 for rent. What's your financial situation, Tiffany? How are you and your husband doing?

[C]

I think we're doing pretty well. We do have our first child that was born May of last year. So the only thing is, of course, with rent that we're paying and then there's daycare costs, unless we want to give up the, I guess our retirement. I feel like, I don't know if it's selfish of us for not wanting to give her money on the side for her retirement.

[B]

It's not. But let's even see if it's necessary. So the questions that I would have if I were in your shoes, I'd want to get more facts. So first off, I'd want to make sure I'm not assuming that she wants, you know, me to take care of her. I want to know point blank. And so I'd probably sit down and ask the question and.

[C]

Oh, no. Yeah. So when the situation happened, when she had lost her job earlier and she had to get surgery, eye surgery, around that time when she was out of a job, she did come to my husband to ask for money just on.

[B]

A one time thing or say, hey, you're going to be the one taking care of me during retirement. I hope you know those are two different things.

[C]

My husband set a boundary. He said I was going, he was going to only give her money for three months and he had expected her to get back on her feet after, you know, she recovered. And he said that was it. I'm only going to give you money for three months and then you're sort of on your own. But of course, he, he's a softy in the sense that if he was, you know, out of money and he may end up on the street, he wouldn't let that happen.

[B]

Sure. Because here's what I'm. I'm gonna just tell you where my mind is. What you said is different from taking care of me in retirement. Those are two different things. It's one thing to have had surgery, be going through a tough time trying to figure out where you can work because you lost your job because of your vision. Right. Those. There's that, and then there's, you're taking care of me in retirement, which is going to happen maybe 20 years from now. So I'd want to get clarity on that. I don't think you have clarity there. I think you kind of are making an assumption, and I can see why you're jumping to that. I can see why you're doing that. But I'd want to know that. And then if it does seem like, hey, no, this really is the, the expectation I've gotten clarity on that, then I'd want to know, okay, since you're expecting that, then that gives me a right to look into your finances. Right, George? Like, you better be telling me, what's your Social Security going to be? What do you pay? Show me your bills. Right.

[A]

If I'm pay your bills, I'm going to be in charge of how much you're paying for those bills and what you're spending is. So that's. That's part of this deal. But I would really push to have her live an independent life. And that's going to take some coaching. And I don't think you should get in the middle of it if it's his mom. Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So it's going to sound like, you know, we love you, we want to make sure that you're taken care of. We also need to have a plan for you to live independently. And right now, we can't financially support you. We got a lot going on. We live in a high cost of living area. We have a baby. We're paying for daycare. So here's what we can do. We want to help you help yourself with whatever resources we can to get you into a sustainable place. But we cannot and will not just support you for the rest of your life and cover all of your bills. We can't do that. And then it's on her to figure it out.

[B]

Yeah, there's still time. There's time here for her to create something for herself. And if you guys play a part in helping her do that, I think that's a wonderful thing because financial literacy and financial illiteracy is a very real thing. So if you can help her understand, okay, you're 60. You've still got 10 years to really make something happen for yourself. Here's how you do it. I think that's a wonderful thing. But all that is going to start with you getting clarity on really what the expectation is from her, and then you clearly setting expectations on your end and setting those boundaries on your end. That's what I would do.

[A]

And if it gets to the point where she is truly disabled, then she can get on disability and eventually maybe she'll get some Social Security if she decides to take that at 62 or 3 or whatever. And so we need to show her the options that are at her disposal versus her relying on you and you becoming bank of Tiffany is going to be a bad plan because you're right, it's going to create resentment and it's going to create entitlement on her part to where now she goes, well, why even work full time? I can work part time or maybe not work at all if they're just going to float my life, life. So that's this scary slippery slope that we're headed towards.

[C]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

So that's all that's going to be, you and your husband coming together, making a plan, sticking to it, spit shake, saying, I know you're a softie. You can't give in. When she goes, yeah, but everything I've done for you, it's like, hey, yes, I'm grateful for what you've done and we can't take care of you for the next 20 years.

[B]

I'm just glad that you're talking about it, Tiffany, because the truth is, a lot of us experience these. We start to see these cracks financially, expose themselves and family members or in our aging parents. And it's kind of like we just watch it happen from afar. And you have the opportunity to jump in there and set those expectations. You have the opportunity to jump in there and get the facts and hopefully try to set them on the right path. Because a lot can happen in 10 years. Financially, you can either dig a deeper hole or you can actually get yourself on track and, and create some form of a nest egg, something that's sustainable. So if you're listening and you're seeing this play out in your life like so many of us are, don't just sit back idly, go be about some business and get some information.

[A]

And if you are that older parent, please don't do this to your kids. Don't be a burden. I want them to like, when my parents pass away, I want to grieve how much I love them.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Not goodness gracious, at least they're off my payroll. And that's what that. That's the resentment it creates when you put this on your kids. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. The holidays are full of traditions. Some of these traditions we love, some we just survive. And in addition to the traditions, let's Be honest. This time of year can also be a time of noise and pressure and loneliness. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to ask yourself what really matters to you this year. And therapy can give you a space to do just that. To think, to breathe. To ask yourself, what do you want this year? And to make room for peace. That's why I Recommend Better Health. BetterHelp has over 30,000 licensed therapists that.

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[B]

This is the Ramsey Show. George Camel is my host. I'm Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls. Triple 882-55-5225 is the number to call. Hey, George, I saw this sitting on our desk, and I think it's worth talking about because we hear so much doom and gloom about Americans not ready to retire or it's the American dream is dying. You know, here in America, when it comes to money. And this is really cool from CNN, number a 401k millionaire reaches new high.

[A]

Yes. I actually just talked about this this morning on Good Day Orlando. We did a media hit with the. With the nice people over there. And this is exactly what we talked about because there's so much hope stealing going on out there. All you hear is there's a retirement crisis and the next president's gonna screw this up and cause us to all be broke. And here's Fidelity saying, actually, we're at record highs. And across our 401k accounts, they have half a million people who have balances of a million dollars or more in that one account.

[B]

Wow. Wow.

[A]

In just one 401k account, which is very encouraging, average balance hit 1.6 million.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

So that's encouraging. So the question is, good for them, George. What about me and my 401k? I don't have a million. Well, that's true. The average 401k out there is more like 126 grand.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So it's like a tenth. So how do you get there, Jade? Well, it takes consistent investing over a long period of time. So if you sporadically put 3% to get the employer match, yeah, it's going to take a bazillion years to get a million. But if you follow the Ramsey plan, you get out of debt as soon as you can, two years or less, you get the emergency fund in place, you begin investing 15% of your household income into that retirement account. You will see that it doesn't take long for compound growth to work its magic.

[B]

That's right. And all the time around here, we're talking about 10% returns. And anytime I talk about 10 returns, especially if it goes on social media, there's always somebody popping into the comments saying something like, well, where are you going to get that? Or how could you get that? Or that's impossible. And I always have to explain the idea that this is an annualized term. Number one. It's not to say that every single year you're going to get 10%, but over the lifetime of your investing, that is what you're getting. That's the average of all the years you've been invested.

[A]

It was up 30, down 12, up 20%, down 6%. If you take into account all of those years, you're looking at 10 to 12% on average in the stock market.

[B]

That's right. And when you look at them by year, most of the years are up years. You know, you have those years that tank because something catastrophic has happened, whether in politics or, you know, international. But it always recovers, and it always recovers really in, in our favor.

[A]

I just looked at the S&P 500, which represents the total US stock market. I looked at the numbers, Jay, this morning, and in 2004, so 20 years ago, we have 5x since then.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So if you had 10 grand, now you're talking 50 grand. And even if you started investing 10 years ago, your money would have went 2 1/2x.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

And so it's, it's not a rocket science analogy here. You just need savings rate, how much money you're putting in, plus time. That's the formula to become a 401k millionaire.

[B]

Yeah, that's what we're looking at here. So your 401k is a great place to start. We say all the time, you know, we sometimes hear, we talk about Baby step four and we kind of push past it. But it's worth talking about, George, because a lot of people have questions. A lot of people don't realize, okay, when I invest in my 401k at work. What does that mean? And where does that get me? So let's take a moment and kind of explain that because I posted a video on Instagram last week about baby step four and I was overloaded with questions on okay, what does that mean? Where do I go? What if it's Roth? What if I get a match? So let's take a moment and teach the people. When we say baby step four, what are we talking about? I'll start with the first part. So here we teach that you're not ready to invest until after you've paid off your debt, which is baby step two. And after you've invested three to, or, and after you've saved three to six months of expenses, that's baby step three. From there we then teach. Okay, now you take 15 of the gross that you're making every single month. This is before insurance comes out, before taxes comes out. You take that money and you're investing it. And we say let's start with an employer sponsored account. If there's a match.

[A]

Yes. So if you make 100 grand a year, you should see $15,000 in contributions in that retirement account. That's 15%.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the strategy here is simple. Match beats Roth, beats traditional. We go for the match first because it's a 100% return on our investment. I put in 4%, the employer puts in 4%. Great. Next we can move to all the Roth options available. All of that means is that the money is, is put in after tax and grows tax free. So you're not going to be able to deduct it from your taxable income for the year. Like it's additional, but you never have to pay taxes again. If you have $2 million in a Roth 401K at retirement, Uncle Sam doesn't touch it. That's like 2 million of net income, take home pay. So I love that. Then beyond the Roth options, like a Roth IRA or Roth 401k, you can move to any traditional options you have.

[B]

That's right. And one of the other things I love about investing is if I can set it and forget it. Like if you can, if you're doing the 401k right now and you can go to HR and set it up and it happens like clockwork. That's wonderful because you don't even have to think about it. It's just happening monthly. It's money. You can almost pretend like it's never happened. Right. You're not thinking about it. And same Thing. If you have a Roth ira, you could probably set it up to where that's coming out automatically. Contributions on payday. Because here's the thing, once, if you don't do it on payday, good luck to you. It's not happening.

[A]

If you see that money in your bank account, it's hard to go, you know what I should do? Invest for the future. You're going to go, ooh, I'm going to buy me some stuff.

[B]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

So I love the idea of picturing like you never had that money and then future you, it's going to feel like you found like a 20 bill in your coat pocket, except it's going to be like a $2 million bill.

[B]

In your coat pocket. So let's talk about George briefly because we got some time. Let's talk about for the people who say, well, I make too much to invest in a Roth ira.

[A]

Well, the IRA does have limits, but there's ways around it with the Roth where you can do a backdoor Roth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And all this means is you're going to use after tax money to fund an IRA and then you can immediately convert it to a Roth. And it's legal. It's a legal loophole.

[B]

Totally legal.

[A]

This is not like a life hack that's going to get you in trouble. And I would recommend working with a pro on all this. You can connect with one of ramseysolutions.com to help. That's what I did when I came to Ramsey. I had an old 401k. I rolled it over to the IRA from my Apple career, my short 1 year and 3 month Apple career. I had some, some 401k money in there.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

So whether you're rolling over or you want to do a backdoor Roth, there's a lot of options for high income earners. On top of that, there's the mega backdoor Roth.

[B]

Yes, there's a lot.

[A]

It feels like a seven year old name.

[B]

The mega, mega back door. And then for the people who are like, okay, Jade, George, great, I'm maxing out my 401k. I'm doing well. I'm maxing out a Roth IRA. What else can I do? We love the HSA Health Savings Account. If you have a high deductible insurance plan, that's a great way to go. I mean, obviously when you put the money in, at first you're thinking this is for my health savings. But beyond a thousand dollars, you're able to invest that money and by the time you turn 65, it doesn't have to just go to medical costs. You can use that for.

[A]

It acts like a 401k, basically. Essentially. Which is really cool.

[B]

What if you're really doing well, George, and you're like, I did it all. I did the HSA, the, the Roth, the Roth IRA, the 401K. What am I going to do next?

[A]

I would just invest in a general investing brokerage account. This is not connected to retirement. But.

[B]

But.

[A]

And you don't get tax advantages.

[B]

Well, let's run it back a little simpler because some people are going, when you say brokerage account, George, what do you mean? What is a brokerage account? What's a brokerage?

[A]

Well, it's simply an account for investing that you work with a firm like, we've all heard of Vanguard or Fidelity.

[B]

Or Schwab, Charles Schwab.

[A]

So you can work with a pro on this. You can open these yourself. And you just simply invest in. You know, this is what Dave does. He gets a big check. That's not non retirement. He goes, I'm going to put it in index fund inside of one of these accounts.

[B]

It's not connected to your employer. It's not connected to your retirement. It's simply.

[A]

And you pay taxes on the money, on the growth of that money. And you don't get any tax deductions when you put it in. So there's no tax benefit. But the benefit is you don't have to wait till 60 to tap into it.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

And you can use it for anything at any time.

[B]

Okay, so let's take it a step further. When we talk about investing that money. What are we talking about? We're talking about. Because a lot of people go, oh, I'm investing in single stocks. Apple, Nvidia. Right. And we're saying, no, no, no, that's super risky. Let's invest in mutual funds. Right, Right.

[A]

So this is like betting on a single horse versus betting on the racetrack. Yeah, I'd rather just enjoy the game and go, we're all going to be winners if we put money into the race track itself.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

We're going to get all the horses in that race. And that's what you're doing when you invest in a mutual fund, which is like 90 to 200 plus, sometimes more.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so that's what you're betting on. And you can see the return is a lot less rocky than a single stock of one company. Instead, we're going, here's the top 500 companies. We're all rooting for the top 500 horses in the race. And that way you get the benefit of all of that growth.

[B]

And there's different types of funds that he's talking about. We talk about growth funds. Growth and income funds, aggressive growth funds, international. Those are the four that we teach. You're spreading your eggs out. You're not putting them in one basket. So if your international fund is not doing very well, probably your growth and income fund is trucking along and doing just fine, as it should. And so that's how this works. That is baby step four in a nutshell. George.

[A]

George, you're a genius. I wouldn't go that far.

[B]

I would.

[A]

But you know what? You don't have to be a genius investor to make money in the stock market. You just gotta ride it out. Don't jump off the coaster, man. Stay put.

[B]

Stay put. All right. Keep tuning in to the Ramsey show to learn more about how to manage your personal finances. Hey, y', all, you know I'm all about keeping your budget in check, especially during the holidays.

[A]

And that's why I always start my grocery shopping during the holidays at Aldi.

[B]

From fresh produce to holiday favorites and charcuterie boards for parties, Aldi has it all. And at prices that will help your family save big. Up to $4,000 a year for a family of four.

[A]

So do what I do for my family.

[B]

Shop at Aldi first to save on.

[A]

Groceries without sacrificing quality or holiday joy.

[B]

Find a store near you at Aldi.

[A]

US That's a L D. I dot US Savings based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market.

[B]

You are listening to the Ramsey show on the Ramsey Network. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is George Camel. We're taking your calls all hour long. Triple 882-55. 225. And if you didn't know it, you know, maybe you just watch the show and you just think we're two folks in a studio. Actually, it's two very large buildings that we work from. And it's a lot of people in here. I think there's like over a thousand of us.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Working in here day in and day out. Lots of different resources that we offer here. Ramsey Education, Ramsey Trusted services, just to name a few. Then there's all the stuff, like every dollar and everything like that. And one of our favorite Ramsey Trusted. They're here to help you guys. Okay? We. You need help with things like Real estate. And we're here to help. So selling a house the Ramsey way, it's really what makes homeownership a blessing instead of a burden. And we've got the right tools for you. Our Ramsey trusted program is really the only way for you to find an agent that you can trust. This person is going to keep you on track with the things that we teach here at Ramsey, which is so important. You're going to get the best offer on your house and you're going to find the right house house for you. If you're looking to purchase a house. This is so important, George, because it's a jungle out there, right? And people will do anything, especially with this market. If you're trying to buy a house, people are doing bridge loans, people are.

[A]

Doing zero down loans for sale by owner trying to save a buck.

[B]

Oh, gosh.

[A]

Now's not the time to do amateur hour.

[B]

I know. And you don't want an agent who's so desperate to make a dollar that they'll kind of suggest things to you that are not good for you. Oh, well, if you want, if you need to get your loan approved, just, just do this. You don't want that. You want somebody.

[A]

What if you did a heloc and that way you could and no, our Ramsey trusted pros, they're not going to steer you wrong. They're not going to give you advice that goes against the Ramsey principles, which are meant to help you live with more peace, less stress and get the house paid off. Remember, that's the goal.

[B]

That's what you want. So we're going to send you some of the top agents in your area. These are people that we trust. You're going to get to review their stats. You're going to get to interview them yourself and decide which one of them that you want to work with because you're going to choose one of them. And these Ramsey trusted agents, they've got years of experience, okay? They're going to help you make the wise decisions when it comes to pricing, when it comes to marketing, and they're going to help you choose the right offer. So find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free. Did I mention that it's [e-mail] agent? So that's what we're looking for. I love my Ramsey trusted pro that has helped us with our houses. She's great.

[A]

You come like lifelong friends with some of these folks. They're amazing.

[B]

Mandy Lynn, Festy. Shout out.

[A]

Shout out.

[B]

In the, in the middle Tennessee area. Williamson County.

[A]

She'll appreciate that.

[B]

I know she will. All right, let's go to the phone lines. We got Elizabeth in Austin, Texas. What's going on? Elizabeth?

[C]

Hi. How are you doing?

[B]

Good. How are you?

[C]

Good. Sorry. I just wanted to make sure you could hear me at first. Yeah, definitely. So, just to kind of get to the point, my stepmom and I don't have a really good relationship. I recently found out that she has absolutely no retirement funds or plans, and there's just no way my husband or I could even think about helping her. And so I just. I'm not quite sure what to do in this situation or, like, how to avoid feeling guilty that I can't help.

[B]

Is she asking for help?

[C]

No, not yet. But her and my dad aren't very financially responsible, so it's.

[B]

How old are they?

[C]

I'm worried that if some. She's 56.

[B]

Okay. Okay. How old is your dad? Same age.

[C]

He's 53.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Are they both working?

[C]

They are right now.

[A]

Okay. And where does your dad come into play? Because you're talking a lot about stepmom here.

[C]

He's. He doesn't work. He has a. He works, but he doesn't work at home. So he has. He has a job as a truck driver, and.

[B]

He.

[C]

He has, like, a pension that he's vested into, but that's only like $500 a month for when he retires.

[A]

Have they told you about their financial situation?

[C]

My dad has. He's been very vocal about that.

[A]

Is he worried about it when he tells you?

[C]

A little bit, yeah. Just because that's not a lot of money to live off of.

[B]

Sure. What's your financial situation?

[C]

So my husband and I are currently in baby step two. We make 90,000 a year, and we're scheduled to have. If everything goes perfectly, we're scheduled to have 50,000 paid off by March of 2026.

[B]

And that's the full amount?

[C]

That's the full amount minus our mortgage.

[B]

Okay, great. Yeah. That's excellent. Okay. So I. I sympathize with what you're saying because I, you know, they're your parents. You love them. You see them drowning, and you want to save them. Right. But at the same time, you've got to get yourself into the raft first and save yourself so that you can pull them into somewhere safe. So there's. There's all of that there. It sounds like your dad, at the very least, it sounds like he's willing to talk to you somewhat about this. One thing that you could try is to Say, hey, you know, dad, some of the things that you're saying, I, I have felt that too. You know, we, we've been worried about the future for ourselves and I found this plan, you know, it's called Financial Peace University. We've started working it and it's working for us. It's a lot of work, but it's helping us. You know, I'll send, I'll send you a copy of it. And maybe you do it like that as opposed to. Because you're not. Here's the thing, you can't save them.

[A]

And you're not responsible for their life and their decisions.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

As much as you might have empathy for their situation. And we know that you can't change people. We've tried. I wish I could. You know, you can't. Your personal trainer can't care more about you losing weight than you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It just, it doesn't work.

[B]

You can hold up the oxygen, they don't have to inhale.

[A]

And so part of this is having the hard conversation and saying, listen, I can't take care of you guys if you don't take care of yourselves. I'm not. We're not gonna be able to have you, you know, move in with us and have us float you if you didn't pre. Now the good thing is they're not that old.

[B]

No, they're.

[A]

They're probably, you know, if they work really hard for the next 10, 15 years, they can have a decent little nest egg and retire with some peace. Would you agree? Why are they, why is there no hope for them at this point?

[C]

Well, it's not so much that there's, there's no hope for my dad. It's just my stepmom really loves to shop and so.

[A]

And she going into debt for this.

[C]

Yeah, she has in the past. It's caused them to go through bankruptcy twice now.

[B]

This is even more so. This is becoming an issue you can't solve because these are marital issues. There are financial issues that you're seeing, you're seeing the symptoms on the outside in a. Financially speaking, but these are marital issues that you, I mean, you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg on this.

[A]

And with any kind of misbehavior, if you throw money at it, you're just going to be enabling more of the same misbehavior. She's not just going to change her habits because you gave her $5,000. She's going to go woo shopping spree.

[B]

How long have they been married? How long has she been your stepmom.

[C]

16 years now.

[B]

Okay, so this is locked in.

[A]

What's your relationship with her?

[C]

It's really terrible. She was physically and verbally abusive when I was little.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I'm sorry. So, yeah, so I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. You're looking at this and you're going, this woman is dragging my dad down.

[C]

A little bit. Yeah.

[B]

And so, yeah, you're mad.

[A]

Have you brought this to your dad? Have you shared your honest feelings with your dad about how she's treated you and her financial situation and how it affects him, his retirement? Yeah, I. I have.

[C]

For Father's Day, I got him total money makeover. And he, he. He started reading it, and he, like, wants to get on the right track now, but it's just.

[A]

It's on him to get her on board. And you're gonna have a much harder time doing that with your position. And so I think the more you can encourage him, get him on the plane, get him fired up, that will then hopefully be contagious to her. Or at least he gets some boundaries and goes, listen, you can't spend like this anymore. I'm taking away access to this card because you're putting our family in danger.

[B]

And the way that you motivate him is by sharing your journey. Like, share when you're winning. When you guys do your debt free scream, share that. Share how it feels to have this piece. Talk about the conversations that you're having with your spouse. Hey, you know, we've been. It was tough at first, but we keep opening up the lines of communication. Just be open and share. You can't make them do anything. All you can do is tell them about it, and then you kind of just have to step away and really just leave it in God's hands at that point. Which is tough to do, George. It is not easy. We want to control the people that we love. Let's just be honest about that. But we can't. Doesn't work that way. This is the Ramsey show.

[A]

You already know the power of generosity. And the best gifts make an impact now and eternally. That's what preborn does. And you can trust them to do it. Well, they don't just offer free ultrasounds. They support pregnancy clinics across the country with ultrasound machines, training grants, and evangelism tools. They're faithful with each dollar. So moms in crisis can see the life in their wombs and hear the truth that brings eternal life. Because here's the thing. When a mom sees her baby on that ultrasound screen, she chooses life 80% of the time. And your gift of just $28 covers the cost of one ultrasound. Or if you're able, you can purchase an ultrasound machine through preborn and have it placed in one of their clinics. So women will choose life for years. Your donation brings hope and truth when mothers feel alone and fear is loud. So I'm asking you to give to preborn today, even just $28 to provide one ultrasound. Go to preborn.com Ramsey or call 855-601-2229. Because every baby saved is more than a life preserved. It's a life changed. That's preborn.com Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw this hour. 888-255-2225 is the number to call if you want to join the conversation. Brian is in Topeka, Kansas. Up next, Brian, how can we help today?

[C]

Hey, so I have about $90,000 tied up, $90,000 in debt tied up in a truck and a camper since I travel for work. And I always want to, I'm always like, I'm tired of being broke. I want to get this paid off in the next year. How, how do you get into that mentality of, like, whenever it comes to payday, I'm just, I don't want to do it. But whenever it's time to pay the bill, I'm, I want to get rid of this. How do you get getting the mentality of making it happen to get this done? Yeah. Making it happen.

[B]

Well, I mean, I think, think I, I think for you right now, it's just logic. I think you're seeing, okay, I have debt. Yeah. It makes sense to pay it off. Maybe you heard somebody say a good reason. Right. But right now it still feels very external. And I think there's got to be something internally in you that is a real reason why and that you're feeling to where that's the motivator for you to actually make this happen and move the needle. And a lot of times that's tied to our goals, like what our goals are in life. So if your goal is to get married or if your goal is to buy a house or your goal is to be the first person in your family to retire and it not be a burden. Right. Whatever that thing is, I think that maybe you haven't connected it to that yet.

[C]

Okay. Because I've set goals for, I want to get the debt paid off in the next year and then.

[B]

But why?

[C]

Why? To be financially free and so I can continue on my other financial goals of buying. Buying land, building a house. And then.

[B]

But also, I'm asking deeper questions. Because money, it can't just be for more gain. Like, it can't be money for money's sake. I want to get out of debt so I can have more money. Why? So I can buy more things. Why? So I can have more things. You know? Know, there's got to be, like. You gotta pinpoint it to something. It's, you know. So when you said, hey, I want to buy land, why is land important to you? If you said, hey, I want to build a house, why is building a house important to you? What does it represent? So I think getting to that deeper level is really helpful. Otherwise, it's pretty surface. And a lot of times what we find, George, is people call in and they're just looking for the next thing they can do, and it's not really. It's not satisfying them in the way that they thought it was.

[A]

Yeah, you'll get there and go, okay, I did it. But now what? And we want you to have some deeper purpose here. And I think you're getting there. The way you're talking, what do you make?

[C]

Make about 110,000. Before or after taxes?

[A]

After taxes, you make 110. Great income. Okay, so when you say, I want to pay this off in 12 months, how are you planning on doing that?

[C]

So my checks are about 2100-2500, depending on over time, and. And how my hours are that.

[A]

Twice a month.

[C]

A week. Knots. Every week.

[A]

Okay, good. I was like, man, this math is not math. And for me, okay, that's great.

[C]

That's weekly. And just. I did the math. And right around 1500 bucks a week. Get to a point to where I have a. I'm thinking like a $10,000 safety net since I am traveling for work.

[A]

And how much do you have saved now?

[C]

Nothing.

[A]

Okay, so you're just paycheck to paycheck, spending everything you get. All right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Do they cover your expenses, or is that on you? Do they reimburse you?

[C]

They. So they pay incentives to come out here, and then the travel expenses are on me. Okay.

[A]

What's left on the truck and what's left on the camper?

[C]

There's 60 on the truck and 30 on the camper.

[A]

Okay. Do you need a $60,000 truck to do your job?

[C]

I don't.

[A]

Okay. Because that's over half of your Your take home pay, It's a lot of truck for. And it sounds like you're a young guy. How old are you?

[C]

20.

[A]

Okay. A 20 year old does not need a $60,000 truck to do any job. Can we agree on that?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

A 50 year old doesn't need a $60,000 truck to do a job. So if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to see what I can do to lighten my load, literally and sell this truck and get a new to me truck for 15,000. So what is the truck worth? You sold it? Private party. How much could you get for it?

[C]

Probably 55 to 60. I haven't really done the blue book.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

There's your. There's some homework and if you are underwater on it by a little bit, you need to come up with that in savings, which you could do within a month. If you're underwater by five grand, could you save five grand to save your life in the next month?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Great. So now you can clear the title. Now we still need another truck, right? You still need that?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So you're gonna need to come up with another 10 grand. 15 grand to get a beater truck is what this is gonna amount to in the truck world.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you just need to get from A to B. Right.

[C]

Well, the camper is taking.

[A]

You're just hauling the truck along with the camper?

[C]

No, it's a full behind camper. So I'm hauling the camper.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I need something reliable enough to get across the country if I need to if the next job is in Nevada to pack myself up and.

[A]

Yeah, but they make reliable trucks that are 20 grand instead of 60. Right. You know the truck world. So here's the problem. That $60,000 truck is depreciating like a rock the way you're driving it across the country. Which is even more reason to not drive a super nice truck all the time across the country. Because the more mileage you're putting on it, the more wear and tear. That thing is plummeting in value. So that's what scares me is you could be underwater 20 grand and not know it right now.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I would do some homework on that part. And man, if you can get this done in 6 months instead of 12, wouldn't you want that? Yeah, I'd rather you eat rice and beans for six months instead of a whole year. So I would be looking at what makes sense to sell and get something cheaper. And the way your income is, you could save up and buy something used pretty Quickly. And the good news is lots of people are selling used campers out there. Lots of people selling used trucks out there.

[C]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

And so just know it's a short season of rice and beans for you. Some people, like Jade, it took, you know, over seven years for her and her husband to pay off their debt. So for you to be able to do this in six months, you're gonna blink. You won't even be able to drink yet on your 21st birthday by the time you're debt free.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so. Yeah. And just know, you know, going back to what I was saying earlier, part of that why is, why is it a good idea to do this now? And it's because you're unattached, man. Like, you got all the time in the world. You can do what you want with your money. There's no lady in your life that you have to share decisions with. You don't have kids. Like there's so many reasons to do this now versus later. So just spend some time with that mentally and let that soak in.

[C]

Okay?

[A]

I'm proud of you, man. You're a very successful 20 year old with a good head on your shoulders. We made some mistakes. The good news, you know, anything that's vehicle related, at least we can sell those. You know, you go into a hundred thousand of student loan debt, you can't go sell the degree, man.

[B]

I wish you could.

[A]

Nobody's interested.

[B]

I would have sold mine off.

[A]

If anyone's interested in a communications degree, I have one available.

[B]

And then it's like Men in Black. They do the thing and you forget everything you learned as well.

[A]

Trust me, I don't remember anything I learned. I think that, you know, I'm sorry, but who remembers things that like specific.

[B]

Things they learned in college?

[A]

Unless you were in like 5.13, a medical field, like, you know, law, like something like that where you kind of need to know some things.

[B]

Where the funny bone is located.

[A]

Couldn't tell you what happened in small group communication theory. Oh, I don't even know what that is exactly. There you go. I just. As much as I don't like going into debt for vehicles, it's nice when we get a call and I go, hey, you could sell the truck.

[B]

That's a great.

[A]

You could sell the horse. Both are assets, technically.

[B]

You said it, not me. Hey, do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with money, but still stuck? I was you in debt, running hard, but taking three steps forward and two steps back. Turns out it's not the numbers. It's the fact that changing our ways with money is emotional. That's why I wrote my brand new book, what no one tells you about money. To help you push past what's really been sabotaging your progress so you can finally win. You can pre order now and score over $100 in free bonus items, but only if you order by January 5th. Go to ramseysolutions.com store today.

[A]

Michael's up next in San Jose. What's going on, Michael?

[C]

I'm doing very well. How are you?

[A]

Great. How can we help today?

[C]

So my father passed a few months ago, and. Thank you. And the thing is, he left everything to me. His house, his investments, his business. He didn't give anything to my sisters, who are estranged and with our mother. Ever since my parents divorced and my sisters are like. They have asked me to help pay their student loans because my father left them with nothing.

[B]

How much was it.

[C]

Combined? I believe they went to both undergrad and grad, so it's combined. It's about 300,000.

[B]

No. How much was the. Yes. Thank you for telling me that. But how much was the inheritance?

[C]

It's. It's couple million. It's basically his house, his investment, and his business. Yes.

[B]

When you say a couple million, is that like 2 million or is that like 6 million?

[C]

It's in the eight figures.

[A]

Okay, so we're talking 10 million plus.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Okay, so he purposefully did not leave any money to your sisters because he had no relationship with them, and that was his call to make.

[B]

Are. Are they missing savers?

[C]

He didn't. No, they basically. He basically cut them off because they sided with our mother during their divorce.

[A]

Okay. So they're team mom, you were team dad. And he goes, hey, I'm gonna leave it all to my son who's been loyal to me.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And now they're resentful because they feel like they deserve a portion of this money?

[C]

It seems like it, yes.

[A]

Okay. I think this is more relational emotional than it is financial. You could write them a check and pay off the loans, but I don't know that you agree with the principle behind it or that that would have been your father's heart.

[B]

Well, yeah. What do you want to do? What's. What's your heart lean towards?

[C]

I don't want to disrespect my father in any way.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do you have a relationship with your sisters or is it estranged as well?

[C]

It's estranged.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So they've only come to me only for Very unique cases. Or like, or when they were going to college or, or grad. They came to both my father and I for money. My father, I know, I was there. My father refused to pay for them and that's why they have the debt to begin with.

[A]

So it's been transactional this entire relationship.

[B]

But can I ask because here where I'm sitting and you've given us. Thank you for sharing what you've shared so far. What I'm trying to weigh. And George, I don't. I don't know how you're looking at this, this either, but I'm trying to weigh if this was a decision that was made out of dysfunction, which is, I'm forcing you to choose sides. And you guys are children, so you're choosing whatever, I don't know, the parent you like the most that day, you know, that sort of thing. And is this your father, you know, having a kind of just an immature moment. Right. Or is this really a reason that is. With good reasoning behind it, of, hey, I cut them off because they were misbehaving in this way and they made these poor choices, or is it literally just simply, I don't like your mother anymore and they like her. You're dead to me.

[C]

So my mother had an affair. That's why they divorced. My sister sided with my mother because they like the affair partner more. And I said it with my father because he was my father.

[B]

Got you. Okay, so you can't see how they would stand by someone who would do such a thing. Basically, yes, I understand. Okay.

[A]

I think you're going to be resentful if you give this money. And I'd rather them be resentful towards you than you be resentful towards them. Okay, there's no easy answer here. They're going to hate you, but it sounds like they didn't like you to begin with. They just used you for transactional moments. And so I don't think this is going to change anything. If you say that wasn't my father's wishes, I'm sorry.

[B]

Listen, I got more to. I feel more to it than that. How, how, how old were you guys when this happened?

[C]

I was 17. My sisters were 15 and 13.

[B]

That's interesting to me. I. Listen, I don't think there's a wrong or right to this. I really don't. It feels very extreme to me that I'm just. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just telling you my thoughts. It feels extreme to me that a parent would put Children in a situation where they have to choose and because some. Something about the situation made you guys feel like you had to choose. Right. And not really.

[C]

I mean, the thing is, I did not know about my parents affair. Apparently my sisters did.

[B]

And they said nothing.

[C]

Yeah, they said nothing.

[B]

Which is not on your. That's not on your. The daughters. It's on the parent to, to not put them in the position to keep that secret. Like kids are kids. Teenagers, they're kids.

[A]

A 15 year old doesn't have the emotional bandwidth to navigate that.

[B]

Yeah. And probably thinks, oh, I'm gonna be disloyal. Like they. Kids don't understand what role to play in that. Now, looking back on adults, we can look back and go, maybe I should have done this, maybe I shouldn't. And who knows if they've done the right therapy to work through those things. I, I just feel that on a surface level, to punish the children for a spousal misbehavior because the children didn't react in the way that the adults felt should have happened. I, I do struggle with that. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just telling you called in. So I'm saying I do have a little bit of a struggle with that. It's not an error on your part. It feels like an error on the dad for saying, I'll, I'll show you and kind of putting a lot of that sting and unforgiveness for what mom did on the kids. That's. I'm no, I'm no therapist, so that's just my two cents. This is tough, I'm not gonna lie.

[C]

So. Yeah. So my father, he suffered very greatly from the divorce. Very emotionally. I was, I know because I was there.

[B]

Sure. Yeah. Rightfully so.

[C]

He dipped into alcohol for a while, but he built himself back up, you know, and he showered me love and attention because I was the only one that he had. And I don't want to in any way disrespect his wishes. I think he had a purpose to. When he wrote his will and he never changed it. I think he had a purpose to when he refused my sisters for his college. For the college. And that's only a drop in the bucket. There have been numerous instances where I know that my father has re. Tried to reach out, especially when my sisters had their kids and they didn't.

[B]

Want anything to do with him. So can I ask this question? Did they, okay, he wrote them off because they followed mom. Did they then write him off because he Wrote them off, was it? Do you see what I'm saying? Who wrote whom off first?

[C]

My sister is definitely.

[B]

And what was their reason for writing him off if he was completely an innocent party in all of this? I don't know. That's the part I'm trying to understand. It's one thing for them to be like, we still like mom, like, we don't want this, you know, and for whatever their reasons were, they continue to have a relationship with her, but what would make them completely disassociate from dear old innocent dad who did nothing wrong but love them?

[C]

It was basically, from what I understand, the affair partner was very charismatic. He bought them a lot of stuff. And this was back when my father's business wasn't successful.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So much to say, he probably bought their love and affection.

[B]

Got it. Got it. So it was a materialistic relationship.

[A]

Here's my final take on this. Again, not trying to play armchair therapist, but I think this, you're not ready to forgive your sisters and cause reconciliation, and giving them this money feels like you're taking that next step. Is that accurate?

[C]

I know that. The thing is, I want the old grudges to die. At the same time, I want to respect my father's wishes. And because my father was a God fearing man, he was very devout, and I know that forgiveness is in the Bible, but I don't know, like, you're right. I am not ready to forgive him for the pain that they caused my father. Neither my mother, neither my sisters.

[A]

That's it. You just said it out loud.

[B]

You're not ready to forgive. Don't forgive yet. But I think you should eventually. And my final take is I do think that him cutting them off was a little bit of dysfunction on his part. And I don't think that they necessarily deserved that. It doesn't sound like I wasn't there, but based on what you said, I don't know if I'd want to keep that dysfunction going.

[A]

Yeah, and I want you to be giving out of joy. That's how giving should be done. Not out of, oh, I just hate to be doing this with a clenched fist. So I'd read that Bible again and see if all that grace and mercy talk might eventually heal some of this relational dysfunction. So sorry, man. Everywhere you turn right now, you're being told a lie about money, that you can't get ahead, that you can't survive without debt. And those lies are keeping you broke. Don't buy into it. Yes, there's a lot of noise and chaos and confusion out there. But there's also hope. The truth is you have more control than you think. This year it's time to take back your hard earned money and your life. And it starts by joining our free livestream. On January 8th, me and Jade Warshaw will show you how to go from chaos to clarity with your money, help you break free from debt and change your family tree all by using the all new EveryDollar app. Plus 10 people who sign up will win $2,000 cash. Don't let this be another year of I can't sign up for [e-mail] livestream.

[C]

Foreign.

[A]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Jade Warshaw. Hey, if you're listening to the show, I assume you enjoy it and if you do, do us a quick favor. It's completely free and share the show. Hit the subscribe button, the follow button. Leave us a kind review, let us know what you think. It all helps us so much. It is the best marketing tool we have because humans are the best way to share the show with other humans. That's the goal. So do that and we'll keep the show afloat. That's how it goes.

[B]

That's how it goes.

[A]

I know no better way to keep the show going than you guys all sharing it and keeping it.

[B]

You're the plan.

[A]

Keep it alive. Yvette is in Houston, Texas. Up next, what's going on? Hello.

[C]

Thanks for taking my call.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

I'm actually having a lot of issues. I'm in a foreclosure and I, yeah, I initially did everything to get out of it and I thought every, everything was taken care of. As far as a modification, I don't know how important this is, but I'm divorced and my ex husband is on the deed even though he's never had any connection to the house. We happen to be in the middle of the divorce when I purchased the house. So I was told that he had to be on the deed. I didn't even realize I could take him off. I'm just finding that. Yeah, but I mean, he's cooperative with, you know, like when I need the paperwork and all that stuff done. So. He lives in another state though. So when I was sent the final documents for the, the modification, they, you know, sent a copy to him and a copy to me and I called to follow up to make sure his copy was actually received by them. The first time it wasn't, but the second time they said, yes, it's here. No, was Came in on this day, signed in, but it hasn't been reviewed yet. So that was a worry. That was out of my mind. But my documents, they sent them back to me and said that the notary did them incorrectly and I needed to have them notor. Re. Notorized.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So anyway, by the time I did that and sent it in and I had already made two. Two payments. Not the trial payments, the actual new modification payments. I had already talked. Yeah, I'm into it. So then when I called to follow up, they said that the deadline had passed by two days and I no longer was. Yeah, I was no longer eligible for the modification. And I talk to these people constantly on a regular basis. And I have to say that my assistant there, he was very stressful. He stressed me out every time I talked to him, but he never really answered any questions. As far as, you know, what happens, you know, by this date. Give me dates. Never.

[A]

What's the current status? How many payments have you missed?

[C]

Well, like I said, I was making the two that was supposed to happen, and they stopped and they wouldn't take anymore. So right now, I think.

[A]

So what. What's their last communication to you? Where are you at in the foreclosure process?

[C]

Well, now it's on hold. Only because I'm a. I'm a victim of a hurricane, and I didn't ask for anything. They, you know, they just said, were you affected by the hurricane? And I said, yeah. And then the person said, what hurricane?

[B]

When is this recent hurricane?

[C]

Yeah, Texas has hurricanes anytime. It's summer. So. Yeah, I mean, like.

[B]

But I'm saying that happened this summer.

[C]

Yeah, it just happened, like, I don't know, three weeks ago. But even before that, we had a. We had a tornado before that, and I was.

[B]

So they're putting it there. They put it on hold because of the. That inclement weather situation.

[C]

Yeah, and on hold is what I thought it was, but it's a. For. It's a forbearance.

[B]

Okay. Until.

[C]

Well, until the end of October.

[B]

Can I ask a couple of. Can I ask a couple of questions just to get my head around this.

[C]

This.

[B]

What took place for you to miss the initial payments? What was going down that was causing you to miss however many payments that you missed and got behind and has. Is that situation over?

[C]

No. And. And I'm. I'm. I'm willing at this point to sell my house, but. And that's something I fought against for so long, but, no, I have a disability and I haven't been Able to work okay over, over 10 years, but, but I'm not receiving disability. It's been very hard in this last time. I haven't even filed the appeal. I just was in a state of depression and just.

[A]

So what has your income been for the last 10 years? Where is it coming from?

[C]

Well, it was coming from child support for the most part, but now my daughter is an adult.

[A]

So where do you get money now?

[C]

Well, now I have a part time job. That makes things even worse. So that's what I have. But my daughter has her income now and so, I mean it's still very low because she only works part time as well.

[A]

Both of you working part time, both of you living in the house and you can't make the mortgage payment?

[C]

No, no, we know we can make it now. But what actually stopped me from making it, I ended up being sued by my homeowners association, which that totally just wrecked everything. I had to pay them $6,000 and that's what, what really caused me to get behind because.

[A]

Has the HOA payments been resolved? Did you pay that?

[C]

Yeah, that's, that's, that's over and done with. And I'm going to have to figure out some way to get that back because that's a whole other story. I have been on a payment plan with them since I, even before I stopped working. But we have different people in charge of that.

[B]

And let me just.

[A]

There's a few pieces here that. We're going to walk you through it.

[B]

Yeah, I don't think that. Have you ever attempted to sell this house? Here's, here's. I'm going to give you my 50,000 foot view. This is a home that you can't afford. This has been nothing. This has been a burden on, burden on burden. I don't want you to foreclose, but I want to know, is there a way. Have you attempted to sell the house at any point to go, hey, I can't afford this piece of property, I got to get out of it? Have you tried that?

[C]

No. And there's a reason for that. And like I was saying, I have no problem with doing that now going forward, but I've been affected by these hurricanes.

[B]

What does that mean when you say you've been affected? Tell, tell us what that means.

[A]

Was the house damaged?

[C]

Yes, and I have property damage, not just from the hurricane I just told you about from the Texas freeze a couple of years ago when we were out of power. But the issue is the insurance companies. I don't know if you know what, what's going on with Texas insurance company? I don't that for even before. Yeah, even before that freeze, we had insurance companies that, that were just not doing what they were supposed to do.

[A]

They denying your claims?

[C]

No, no, they didn't do that. My insurance company gave me eighteen hundred dollars. I probably had, I don't know, I'm just gonna say $30,000 worth of damage and then we hit a wall and then they pulled out the state of Texas and filed for bankruptcy.

[B]

Okay, so you have a bunch of work that needs to be done on your home that insurance wouldn't pay for. What type of work is it. Is it something that no one would buy the home in this condition? Is that what we're talking about? Is your roof half gone or is it more cosmetic?

[C]

No, I think people would buy the house. But my thing is I don't know how much value that I have lost.

[B]

Okay, so what.

[C]

So that I may not have the.

[A]

What'S left on your mortgage?

[C]

It's like right at 100,000 and you're.

[A]

Saying you don't know you could sell it for 100?

[C]

No, no, that's not what I'm saying. I probably can't sell it for that. That my situation, I'm. I'm 60 years old. My situation is I would not. If I can, I would prefer not to sell. I paid for. For 22 years and have nothing and then can't.

[A]

I understand it's frustrating because you didn't build the equity you wanted to. But this is not. You can't have the sunk cost fallacy. You're in a bind where you're going to either sell this home or it's going to be sold for you at auction in a foreclosure.

[B]

You need to figure out. You need to get an appraiser in there, figure out what the house is worth. Worth. I'd be talking with the bank and figure and asking them, listen, I know I'm behind at this point. I don't know how many payments you are behind. I know they tried to do a modification. It's on hold now. I think the fact right now that it's on hold is a blessing for you to go in one more time and say, can we just sell the property if it's at a loss? Maybe you ask for a short sale, figure out a way to go in there and don't let this be a foreclosure. I think that that's going to be.

[A]

Even more on your terms, which means you tell the lender hey, hey. Sit tight. I'm going to sell this house and we're going to make sure that I'm, I'm ahead and we're going to get this thing done. And so I would get in touch with a real estate pro. You can get in touch [e-mail] trusted event and have them figure out the comps and what the house is worth. Let them do that homework for you because you got a lot going on. You need to get to some financial stability right now and build a new financial foundation. And that means we're getting out of this house.

[B]

Yeah. I think you've been hit with hit after hit, whether it was the freeze and then the hurricane and then you're missing payment. And I realize that you've been in this house for a long, a lot of years, but this is not a place of peace anymore. And your home should be a place that you walk in and you feel peace. And we want that for you. We want you in a place that you can afford and we want you to get the help that you need.

[A]

I don't want you to be a violinist on the Titanic going down with the ship. You can definitely avoid all of this and sell and move on with your life and get a fresh start. That's our hope for you. So get in touch with an agent and have them start to do the homework. You get in touch with the lender, figure out what it's going to take to allow this process to happen. This is the Ramsey Show. When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start, answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money. Starting Today, go with ramseysolutions.com start. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Matthew 6, 20 and 21. Store up for yourselves treasures in heaven where moths and vermin do not destroy and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be. Also, Rebecca Johnson said, money is the opposite of the weather. Nobody talks about it, but everybody does something about it. Here we go.

[B]

I can't hear the word vermin without thinking. It's funny.

[A]

It's a funny word.

[B]

It's a very tiny word, very Yosemite Sam and biblical.

[A]

Somehow there's the Venn diagram. What do they have in common? They both used vermin. Love it. Let's get to the phone. Samuel is in Austin, Texas, up next. What's going on, Samuel?

[C]

Hey, how's it going?

[A]

All right.

[C]

Can you guys hear me okay?

[B]

Huh?

[A]

Yep. You could do better, but, you know, we can hear you.

[C]

So I went into debt with a car, and this was two years ago. The question for you guys today, is it morally okay to ask my wife to pay for this car with her savings?

[A]

When did you get married?

[C]

Two years ago. I got the car in April. We got married in May.

[A]

That's convenient.

[B]

Was the plan. Was the plan for you guys to combine your finances when you got married?

[C]

Yes. And the reason I got the car was I was in an accident, and so we were left with nothing to drive around.

[A]

They didn't write you a check?

[C]

No, it was my fault.

[B]

Okay, so you've been married two years. Have you guys combined your money up to this point, or has it been kind of just separate without you guys?

[C]

We. We combined. She doesn't work as much as I do. I think in total, we're probably at like 50, 40, 50 each year.

[B]

Okay, but what you're telling me, and your question would denote two separate answers. You're telling me that your money is combined, but then you're telling me, should my wife use her savings to pay this off? So that lets me know it's not combined.

[C]

We're combined as in, like, we pay the gift, we pay the bills together. Her savings is apart because she's been saving since she was like, 18. 17 that she started working. And so I think I. I feel wrong to ask her. And I did ask her. I think I'm maybe. Maybe about a month ago, and it became an argument because I don't have anything safe. The only debt that we have is this car.

[A]

What's left on the car?

[C]

20.

[B]

20,000.

[A]

And she has a car, too, that's paid off?

[C]

Well, she works with her mom, so her mom picks her up every day.

[A]

So you have one car in the family?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How much savings does she have?

[C]

She has 16. 17.

[B]

16 or 17,000. So it's really not even enough to pay off the car if she wanted to. To.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So there's the glaring issue, and I know George sees it too. The glaring issue is that you guys are really separate. And it's really hard to build trust when I'm over here and you're over there, and I've got this thing that I've been Working for my whole life, and it doesn't really include you. You know what I'm saying? And I kind of wish she was on this call because I don't want to talk bad about her. She probably feels really great about that savings. But the truth is, when you become married, two become one. And until the two become one, it gets really weird and very transactional. Right, George?

[A]

Yeah. This is. I think that it's the wrong question to ask. Is it moral to ask my wife to pay off my debt? There's not a moral issue here. It's what does the conversation need to look like for us to combine our money to where we go. All right, the next best move is to pay off our debt with our money. That's where I'd love for you guys to get to. Otherwise, this is going to just be another checkbox on her resentment scorecard for you. I've gone, remember, you blew my savings on that car. And then you went and still did. Stupid money mistakes. You always do this right. That's what it's going to turn into because you never change your habits.

[C]

So when we talked about it, the reason that she doesn't want to do it, because she said I'd be 100% on board. But we do have a daughter who she kind of like. She feels like if I ever have an emergency, I have this money instead of having bills and pay off if anything happens.

[B]

So you guys need to go counseling. Here's why. Because she's in a just in case mode. She's like, I want to make sure I have this parachute here just in case I gotta pull the lever. And so that points to either something that's happened in the past that she's not dealt with fully, or there's current trust issues that are actually going on between you and her that maybe you don't know about, but it's something that she's been ruminating on. So something's going on deeper here. And I don't say that to be negative. That's just what money does. Money shows you what's really in your heart, what's really what's going on. And so this is good. This is good that you guys are seeing this. You're two years in. It's good that you're going, okay, there's something wrong here. I'm feeling like this. I'm feeling I have to ask you for money. There's a lack of trust. Now is the time for you guys to dig in. That with counseling. Because going forward, you're not going to be able to accomplish much if you don't deal with this. Because most goals. When you're married, most goals are kind of underpinned by finances. Right?

[A]

Because it takes money to do stuff.

[B]

Yeah, it takes money to do stuff. And if you guys aren't aligned on your money, then there's no way you're going to be able to be aligned on the goals. Because let's just pretend your goal is. I don't know. Our goal is we want to get to the point that we take a nice vacation every year. All right? Then the way you guys are going, you've got to say for your half, and she's got to say for her half. And what happens if somebody doesn't make it? Well, I guess we can't go on the vacation. Like, it gets very weird very quickly. You see what I'm saying?

[C]

Well, I think it's just the cold car thing because we've gone on vacations and.

[B]

No, you don't see what I'm saying. You don't. You're taking it for face value. I'm talking about as a whole. This is something you've got to deal with because the car, her not wanting to do that or whatever, that's a symptom of a bigger problem is what I'm saying.

[A]

What is this car worth?

[C]

It's worth like 7 to 8.

[A]

Did you roll negative equity into it? What happened?

[C]

Well, I got the car two years ago. I just recently crashed again. It was honestly just a stupid, stupid mistake.

[A]

You crashed again?

[C]

No, no. When. When I crashed our only car. I went in and I got this car, and it was supposed to be, like, a good thing, but it ended up just not being a good thing.

[A]

No, I'm saying, why is this new car that you got after the crash only worth a seven, but you owe 20?

[B]

It's only been two years.

[C]

I. It was bad investment. I wasn't supposed to get the car because it was a bad investment at the time. I. Like I said, I made a stupid decision and I thought I was on top of the world, but I'm.

[A]

No, I'm confused as to how the value went down. Because when you bought the car, it was worth at least 20, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What kind of car is it?

[C]

No, no, no. It's a 2013 Cadillac.

[A]

Samuel, I'm confused. How much did you pay for the car?

[C]

So I originally got it for 20.

[A]

Okay, so you put nothing down and you got this car.

[C]

I actually put $4,000 down.

[B]

That's wild.

[A]

I'm so Confused, my man. You're not tra. I'm not tracking with you. How is the car only worth 7 today? How did it drop $13,000 in value in two years?

[C]

I'm not sure. I Kelly blue book it the other day, and it was. It was from seven to nine.

[A]

Okay, something. Something ain't adding up here because I'm trying to figure out how much you're underwatering. I think you need to get rid of this car to show your wife that you're serious about changing, because right now, you're using her like a bank to bail you out. Bank of wife. Guess what? She's not your mom. She doesn't want to be your mom. She married you to have a partner in life. And right now, we're still making childish.

[B]

Decisions, and that's probably what's contributing to her having her safety harness ready to go at a moment's notice.

[A]

So I think that we need to address this conversation in a different way. Not, is it moral to ask my wife to pay off my debt? It's you going, hey, babe, I've really messed up for the last two years. I have not been the man in this marriage that you need me to be. I've been making child decisions, and I'm ready to change. Part of that is I want to get rid of this car and get something more affordable that isn't taking up a lot of our world. Will you help me on this journey to live debt free, to have an emergency fund, and to build for the future? Because that's the future you deserve. That's a different conversation, isn't it?

[B]

Right?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[A]

So I think that's the next conversation to have. And I think part of that is the counseling we need to get to the bottom of what is holding her back from combining finances. But I think we both have a part to play in this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's marriage, and we need to own up for the part that we play. And please, please, no more decisions that involve debt. No more decisions that aren't fully have her involved, too. That's another piece of this. She hasn't been involved in any of this. Bring her into the conversation, and your marriage will be better for it. That's it for this hour of the Ramsey Show. We'll be back before you know it.