Hard Decisions Today Bring Freedom Tomorrow

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show - "Hard Decisions Today Bring Freedom Tomorrow"

Release Date: June 5, 2025
Host: George Camel and Dr. John Deloney

In the episode titled "Hard Decisions Today Bring Freedom Tomorrow," George Camel and Dr. John Deloney navigate through a series of callers facing significant financial and personal challenges. This episode delves deep into topics such as estranged family relationships, debt management, estate planning, business finances, and the complexities of merging money matters with personal relationships. Below is a detailed summary capturing each caller's situation, the hosts' insights, and notable quotes.

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1. Navigating Estranged Family and Estate Planning

Caller: Dr. John Deloney
Timestamp: [00:36] – [19:00]

Situation:
Dr. John Deloney, now retired, grapples with the decision of designating his estranged children as beneficiaries on his estate. Nine years of no communication have left him uncertain about the future distribution of his assets. His oldest child has passed away, leaving four living children aged between 35 and 45 who no longer speak to him due to strained relationships stemming from setting boundaries with a struggling daughter battling heroin addiction.

Key Discussions:

• Boundary Setting and Its Consequences:
  Dr. Deloney reflects on the painful aftermath of enforcing boundaries to support his addicted daughter’s recovery, leading to estrangement from his other children.

• Estate Planning Options:
  The hosts discuss alternative strategies to ensure his late child’s inheritance is honored without directly leaving substantial assets to estranged children.

  • Notable Quote:
    • Dr. John Deloney [01:20]: "Devastating. It is."

• 529 Plans as a Solution:
  George Camel suggests setting up 529 plans for his grandchildren, earmarking funds strictly for education. This approach circumvents direct inheritance, preventing misuse of funds while still providing for the next generation.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [04:13]: "That would probably be something I would look to do."

Conclusion:
Dr. Deloney is encouraged to work closely with an estate planning attorney to formalize his wishes, ensuring his assets support his legacy without exacerbating strained family relationships.

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2. Elderly Financial Struggles and Impounded Vehicles

Caller: Lily from San Diego, California
Timestamp: [10:34] – [54:35]

Situation:
Lily seeks advice regarding her 83-year-old father whose car was impounded due to prolonged parking. The impound fees have escalated to $3,000, threatening to push her humble family further into debt. With her father relying solely on Social Security and her mother now supporting him, Lily is overwhelmed by the mounting financial pressure.

Key Discussions:

• Impound Fees and Asset Valuation:
  The car, valued at approximately $500, has led to disproportionate fees, highlighting the pitfalls of asset devaluation versus owed amounts.

• Debt Negotiation Strategies:
  The hosts advise negotiating with the impound company, disputing unreasonable fees, and seeking documented agreements to potentially reduce the debt.

  • Notable Quote:
    • Caller [17:46]: "Conflict deferred is conflict amplified."

• Facing Financial Realities:
  George Camel emphasizes the importance of addressing debt proactively rather than deferring conflict, which only worsens financial woes. Additionally, they discuss the necessity of maintaining records and communicating clearly with debt collectors.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [05:30]: "We don't ever talk. We don't talk about enough."

• Lifetime Financial Planning:
  Considering Lily's health issues and inability to work, the hosts recommend reevaluating long-term financial sustainability, potentially downsizing or reassessing retirement funds to ensure ongoing financial security.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [06:36]: "It's your prerogative. You're the one who has to make peace with all this."

Conclusion:
Lily is advised to take immediate action by negotiating with the impound authorities, reassessing her father's financial plans, and ensuring that long-term sustainability is prioritized over short-term fixes.

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3. Financial Discussions in Relationships and Marriage

Caller: Owen from Washington
Timestamp: [32:54] – [37:38]

Situation:
Owen is contemplating marriage with his partner of two years and has proposed opening a joint household account to manage expenses and savings. However, his partner quickly dismissed the idea, leading Owen to question the appropriate timing and approach for merging finances in a relationship.

Key Discussions:

• Timing for Financial Transparency:
  The hosts stress the importance of sharing financial situations before making significant commitments like cohabitation or marriage.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [33:39]: "You've already. We blew past that long ago."

• Red Flags in Financial Conversations:
  Hesitance or refusal to discuss finances can be a significant red flag indicating potential future conflicts.

  • Notable Quote:
    • Caller [34:25]: "Or if you're choosing to marry somebody and they won't talk to you about their financial situation. Yeah, Huge giant red flag..."

• Healthy Financial Boundaries:
  The hosts recommend establishing clear financial boundaries and expectations, such as defining who pays for what and setting mutual financial goals. They also discourage the continuous tracking of expenses between partners, which can lead to exhaustion and resentment.

  • Notable Quote:
    • Caller [34:36]: "Like just keeping score, like that's exhausting."

• Steps Toward Financial Harmony:
  Encouraging open dialogue about money, aligning values and principles, and gradually transitioning into shared financial responsibilities as the relationship deepens.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [35:41]: "Yeah, but I would say as you're heading into engagement, would be the time to get into specifics..."

Conclusion:
Owen is guided to initiate honest and open financial discussions early in the relationship, ensuring both partners are aligned in their financial goals and responsibilities before making long-term commitments.

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4. Managing Elderly Debt and Impound Fees

Caller: Marianne from Ann Arbor, Michigan
Timestamp: [44:58] – [54:45]

Situation:
Marianne and her husband find themselves struggling financially after he lost his job of 12 years. Following her own health challenges, including an autoimmune disease that forced her into early retirement, the couple is burdened with accumulated debts from unemployment and medical issues.

Key Discussions:

• Balancing Income and Expenses:
  With a combined income now significantly reduced, Marianne and her husband are unable to cover monthly expenses, which stand at approximately $5,000.

  • Notable Quote:
    • Dr. John Deloney [45:22]: "We're making about half of the money we're used to making."

• Impact of Health on Financial Stability:
  Marianne's autoimmune condition not only limited her ability to work but also increased medical expenses, compounding their financial strain.

  • Notable Quote:
    • Caller [46:25]: "I've heard that this precedes health issues, emotional distress..."

• Inheritance as a Financial Rescue:
  An unexpected inheritance of $75,000 offers a potential lifeline to clear debts, but hesitation and uncertainty about managing such funds prevail.

  • Notable Quote:
    • Marianne [50:41]: "It's going to be around 75,000. So that does help with that debt."

• Strategic Debt Repayment:
  The hosts encourage using the inheritance to eliminate debts, emphasizing the importance of a structured plan to prevent falling back into financial hardship.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [52:54]: "We're breaking this generational family curse of we're going to be broke forever."

• Emotional Support and Financial Planning:
  Alongside financial advice, Marianne is offered resources such as Financial Peace University and therapy through BetterHelp to manage both her financial and emotional challenges.

  • Notable Quote:
    • Caller [53:00]: "We are breaking this generational family curse of we're going to be broke forever."

Conclusion:
Marianne and her husband are urged to utilize their inheritance strategically to eliminate debt, reassess their budget, and seek both financial and emotional support to regain stability and prevent future financial crises.

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5. Business Finances and Family Involvement

Caller: Mark from Tacoma, Washington
Timestamp: [59:14] – [84:45]

Situation:
Mark and his wife have established an LLC to manage their business ventures and prepare for future endeavors post-retirement from the fire service. They are contemplating adding their 20 and 22-year-old daughters as owners to optimize tax benefits and facilitate inheritance. However, being in the nascent stages of the business, Mark is concerned about the financial implications and the feasibility of involving his daughters.

Key Discussions:

• Early-Stage Business Ownership:
  The hosts caution against incorporating family members into a business before it is financially stable, highlighting the potential complexities and tax implications.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [61:25]: "What is the business you're want and does it make sense for them to even have ownership in it?"

• Tax Strategies and Legal Considerations:
  Mark expresses his intent to minimize tax liabilities by adjusting ownership structures, but the hosts emphasize the importance of consulting with a Certified Public Accountant (CPA) to navigate legalities and optimize tax benefits without unintended consequences.

  • Notable Quote:
    • Caller [62:06]: "They can't just make it up. And if they're charging you $70 a day or something stupid like that, then you dispute that."

• Value and Commitment from Family Members:
  Adding family members as owners should be contingent upon their active involvement and commitment to the business, ensuring that ownership is meaningful and beneficial for both parties.

  • Notable Quote:
    • Caller [62:24]: "My wife, Kelly, the producer of my show uses it. I'm gonna hook you up with three months for free."

• Long-Term Financial Planning:
  The discussion underscores the necessity of building a solid financial foundation before involving family in business ownership, preventing future legal and financial complications.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [63:09]: "But the CPA is a great start. And then getting this business off the ground is the next step."

Conclusion:
Mark is advised to solidify his business’s financial standing and seek expert advice before involving his daughters as owners, ensuring that such decisions are beneficial, legally sound, and strategically advantageous for the business and the family.

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6. Credit Card Debt and Employment Challenges

Caller: Kirsten from Phoenix
Timestamp: [54:58] – [85:52]

Situation:
Kirsten faces credit card debt totaling approximately $600. With limited savings and a deteriorating credit score due to missed payments, she seeks guidance on addressing her debt while managing her finances. Despite multiple job interviews and side hustles like selling items online and attempting to launch a YouTube channel, Kirsten struggles to make timely payments.

Key Discussions:

• Immediate Income Solutions:
  The hosts urge Kirsten to secure additional income sources promptly, suggesting practical side jobs such as Instacart driving, dog walking, or other gig economy roles to generate quick revenue.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [39:40]: "No, we need like money now."

• Debt Management Strategies:
  Emphasizing the importance of cutting up credit cards to stop accruing further debt and focusing solely on paying down existing balances with available funds.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [41:24]: "Flat out period until my husband gets back on his feet..."

• Budgeting and Financial Discipline:
  Kirsten is encouraged to adopt strict budgeting techniques, prioritizing essential expenses and eliminating non-essential spending to allocate more funds toward debt repayment.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [41:27]: "And we need to have the courage in your marriage to say..."

• Emotional and Educational Support:
  Offering Kirsten access to Financial Peace University and therapy through BetterHelp to provide both financial education and emotional support during her financial recovery journey.

  • Notable Quote:
    • Caller [49:32]: "What your money's going to do is..."

Conclusion:
Kirsten is advised to take immediate action by securing additional income streams, eliminating credit card usage, and adhering to a strict budget. Leveraging educational and emotional support resources will aid her in overcoming her debt challenges.

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7. Life Insurance and Health Challenges

Caller: Paul from Miami, Florida
Timestamp: [108:03] – [127:15]

Situation:
Paul is concerned about his life insurance policies as his term life insurance is nearing its end after 20 years, and he has been denied renewals due to health issues, including obesity and pre-diabetic conditions. Despite having a supplemental term policy through work, Paul fears for his family's financial security should something happen to him.

Key Discussions:

• Understanding Life Insurance Options:
  The hosts explain the differences between term life and variable universal life (VUL) policies, highlighting the cost-effectiveness and higher coverage benefits of term life insurance.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [73:02]: "It's 10 times less expensive to get term life with over double the value."

• Health Impact on Insurance:
  Paul’s high BMI and pre-diabetic status have led to life insurance denials, stressing the importance of maintaining good health to secure favorable insurance terms.

  • Notable Quote:
    • Caller [109:50]: "I don't love the idea of you becoming the bank of dad..."

• Strategic Financial Planning:
  Emphasizing the significance of prioritizing health improvements and financial stability before committing to expensive insurance products. Encouraging Paul to utilize resources like workout apps and therapy to address both his physical and emotional well-being.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [115:14]: "And I don't want you taking another step that you don't respect the dad you are..."

• Future Financial Security:
  Advising Paul to reassess his life insurance needs post-health improvements and consider canceling unnecessary policies to avoid surrender fees and financial penalties.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [74:14]: "And what's it going to cost to get out of this policy?"

Conclusion:
Paul is encouraged to focus on improving his health to regain eligibility for more favorable life insurance terms and to reassess his insurance strategies to ensure his family's financial security without incurring unnecessary costs.

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8. Credit Card Systems and Economic Disparities

Discussion Segment:
Timestamp: [70:31] – [83:03]

Topic:
George Camel and callers delve into the dichotomy of credit card users, distinguishing between affluent individuals who leverage credit for rewards without accruing debt and subprime borrowers who rely on credit as a high-interest short-term loan. They address the broader economic implications of this divide, highlighting how credit card companies profit from the indebtedness of the less fortunate.

Key Points:

• Two Types of Credit Card Users:

  • Transactors: Wealthy individuals who pay off their balances monthly, benefiting from rewards without incurring interest.
  • Revolvers: Borrowers who carry balances, paying high-interest rates and fueling the profits of credit card companies.
  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [69:25]: "These are the wealthy well to do people..."

• Economic Disparities and Credit Card Debt:
  The hosts discuss how credit card debt exacerbates financial inequalities, with subprime borrowers effectively subsidizing the rewards enjoyed by wealthier users.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [71:06]: "Capital One made from interest payments. It went from 76 billion to $170 billion in 2024."

• Moral Implications and Financial Education:
  Emphasizing the ethical considerations of using credit as a means to an end and advocating for financial education to break the cycle of debt dependency.

  • Notable Quote:
    • George Camel [72:47]: "But I did see Brandon got this, you know, confidently bound him to all those dust." [Note: This appears to be misaligned; likely an error in the transcript.]

Conclusion:
The segment underscores the critical need for financial literacy and responsible credit usage to mitigate economic disparities and prevent the perpetuation of debt cycles among vulnerable populations.

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Final Thoughts and Resources Provided

Throughout the episode, George Camel and Dr. John Deloney consistently offer actionable advice, resources, and support to callers:

• Financial Peace University: Encouraging listeners to enroll in this program for comprehensive financial education.
• BetterHelp: Providing free therapy sessions to support mental and emotional well-being alongside financial recovery.
• Estate Planning Resources: Advising the use of 529 plans and consulting with estate planning attorneys.
• Debt Management Strategies: Advocating for debt snowball methods, budget adherence, and proactive debt negotiations.

Notable Closing Quote:

• George Camel [95:32]: "And so you have some homework assignment, because here's what happens. You have falsely trapped yourselves, and you're either about to..."

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Conclusion of Episode:
The theme "Hard Decisions Today Bring Freedom Tomorrow" is reflected in the hosts' emphasis on making tough financial choices to secure long-term stability and peace. By addressing each caller's unique situation with empathy and practical solutions, George Camel and Dr. John Deloney reinforce the importance of proactive financial planning and personal accountability in overcoming financial hardships.

Key Takeaways:

1. Proactive Debt Management: Address debts head-on to prevent escalation and financial strain.
2. Estate Planning: Ensure that your legacy reflects your wishes without causing familial discord.
3. Financial Transparency in Relationships: Openly communicate about finances to build trust and avoid future conflicts.
4. Health and Financial Security: Recognize the interplay between physical well-being and financial stability.
5. Responsible Credit Usage: Understand the implications of credit card usage to avoid perpetuating debt cycles.

Listeners are encouraged to take decisive actions, utilize available resources, and seek professional advice to navigate their financial journeys effectively.

Transcript

[George Camel]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today from Ramsey Network. This is the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel, joined by my good friend Dr. John Deloney. And we're taking your calls at 888-825-5522. Ruth is going to kick us off in Salt Lake City. Ruth, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Absolutely. How can we help today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I'm trying to figure out. I'm retired, and I'm going through my finances, and I'm trying to figure out whether I should have my children as beneficiaries or not, since they ghosted me. And they ghosted me, like, nine years ago. So it's been a long time. I've reached out a lot. No responses.

[George Camel]

What caused the ghost?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm not really sure. I set a boundary with my youngest daughter, who is a heroin addict and older. Basically, she can't use me anymore, and I will support her in recovery and her healing. And it ran from there. It did.

[Caller]

Wow. So how many other kids do you have?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I have four, but my. My oldest child died.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And they range. My living children arrange from 45 to 35.

[Caller]

And none of them will talk to you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No.

[Caller]

I'm sorry. I know that's hard.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Devastating. It is.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. That's just. That's heartbreaking. And for whatever it's worth, I'm proud of you for putting up a boundary with one of your kids.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you.

[Caller]

We don't ever talk. We don't talk about enough. The other side of boundaries is that when we can put up a boundary to keep ourselves safe and kind of create the world we want to exist in, other people can just walk away. And we don't talk about that enough. Like, boundaries looks good on. On Instagram, but, man, there's a reality to it that can be heartbreaking.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Really heartbreaking. And I do believe that the drug aspect is part of it because I think that if my kids were in my world, they know that I would make sure their children were safe. And in my humble opinion, you can't be an active addict and be a very good par.

[Caller]

I think that's. I think. I think there's truth to that. I think that's fair. I also think it's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would do something about that.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, if you think that the kids. Their kids are in danger now, I think just not only as a grandma, but as a citizen, you have a You have a responsibility to make a phone call, right? Yes, yes. But I think it's cruel to give somebody who's struggling with heroin a big inheritance because it's gonna kill.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I agree.

[Caller]

It's gonna kill. So how much money are we talking here?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, it kind of depends. I'm separated and our homes worth. You know, my neighbor sold our home for 1.2 million, so mine's probably 900,000. So I'm separated in that possibility of a divorce, and let's say down the road, a possibility of 6 to 800,000.

[Caller]

What about in retirement funds or anything.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That'S part of that? Yeah.

[George Camel]

So you're saying you would have 6 to 800,000 to leave?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. And you're saying, hey, the kids won't talk to me. What do I do with this money? Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I want to do right, by God. And I want to. I want to be clear about this. I know. And I have eight grandkids, so my one child that died, they would get that child's inheritance. If you don't specify that in a will, then they don't. So I wanted to make sure that they would get that child's portion.

[Caller]

Well, can you do something like. And I'm asking George this on your behalf. He's the expert here. But could she open up 529s and fully fund them for all the grandkids?

[George Camel]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

Specifies that money is going to be used for education only. And if they choose to not go to school, they just go straight into the workforce and never need any sort of training, which is almost no job. But. But if they want to go to college, they want to go to trade school, they want to go to nursing school, that can be used for that. But if not, it just can roll into a Roth with. With the kids down the line. That would probably be something I would look to do.

[George Camel]

If you want to honor your grandkids. Yeah. If you want to skip a generation and not punish the grandkids, you know, the grandkids hopefully can be trusted with this. And if. Especially if you leave it on a 529 where it's for a specific purpose, that will also make you feel better about this, that the parents aren't going to just drain this thing down to zero and use it for whatever they want. Leave it in. You know, you'll need their Social Security numbers to open up that 529 for each of them, but that's a great way to sort of leave the inheritance, feel good about it without leaving it directly to the children.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Caller]

How old are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm sorry?

[Caller]

How old are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

66.

[Caller]

Why are you thinking about this right now?

[Dr. John Deloney]

My first husband died, so I know that that's real. I'm separated, so looking at a divorce.

[Caller]

Okay. And.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And just want to be responsible and just do the right thing, you know.

[George Camel]

But you also sounds like you might need a lot of this money. Let's say you live to be 90. I mean, you got another 24 years to manage expense wise. Are you still working?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, I was forced to retire early due to health things. I've got autoimmune and I've got arthritis stuff. I literally can't work. I would if I could, but I can't. And I've been responsible my whole life, so not, you know, don't do debt. And you know, careful, really careful. I was widowed young and you know, God took care of us and we were never on welfare. You know, I just, it's. I've been really careful. I just want to do the right thing and not leaving my kids out of their inheritance isn't for revenge. I just want to do the right thing, you know?

[George Camel]

Yeah. And if there's no communication there and you know, and I've tried, you could leave it to the kids that you, you trust with this. Even if they don't have communication with you. It's your money you can do what you want with. You can leave it all to a charity and have none of it go to family. It's your prerogative. You're the one who has to make peace with all this.

[Caller]

Or you can leave it to a trusted executor of your estate or executor of a trust who could have a written explanation of what you want done with the money. If my kids come and they prove that they're clean with six months of drug tests or whatever, then they get their inheritance or automatically this money's this. This executor would fund 529 plans. Or I mean, you could, you can, you can decide if you think things are going to happen on the road, but there's also a chance you live another 25 or 30 years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, and I could use it.

[Caller]

You're going to need it. You're not going to use it. You're going to, you're going to have to have it, right?

[George Camel]

Especially my grandma's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Live to be 96, I hope. I don't. But yeah, you know, that's the reality of it as well. And I thought about that. What do you mean?

[Caller]

You Hope you don't. You have a whole third left to go. You're like halfway through the third quarter.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You can't quit the game now, John. Heaven sounds better.

[Caller]

I know, I know, but listen, can I tell you something?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

There are mothers right now. And I know this because 1 out of 4, 25% of the calls that come into my show are about estranged families. Somebody's cut off their parents, the parents have cut off their kids or whatever.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

What an amazing resource you would be to a 45 or 50 year old mom whose kids won't talk to her anymore.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Or to a group of young parents, young dads, young moms whose parents are too busy yoloing it up in their 70s and 60s and won't talk to them anymore. You can start a small group in your local community and provide 20 years of just life giving, wisdom and kindness. So don't cash out on me now. You're, you're, you still got it. You're, you're halfway through the third quarter. You got to play all the way to the end of the bell. But yeah, this George, this is her money, right?

[George Camel]

Yeah. You, you again. You have to make peace with it. So don't do anything that's going to leave you up at night going, oh, I shouldn't have done that. But get a will in place, work with an estate planning attorney and get this done as soon as possible. Hey, technology has changed a lot in the last 30 years. Now the hot topic is AI. And I understand that it might seem intimidating, but if you use AI the right way, it's just another tool to help you work smarter and faster, like a calculator or a cordless drill. So if you run a business, you'd better get on board with it before you get left behind. And NetSuite by Oracle offers AI powered tools that help small businesses improve efficiency and make smarter decisions by bringing all their major business processes into one platform. That way there's one source of truth for the real time data you need to take advantage of opportunities. Then you can forecast better, scale more efficiently and streamline those manual tasks that take too long. So join the more than 41,000 businesses, businesses including Ramsey Solutions that rely on NetSuite to help tackle some of their biggest challenges. And right now you can download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com Ramsey that's free at netsuite.com.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ramsey.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John DeLoney and Lily is up next in San Diego, California. What's going on, Lily? How can we help today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi, thank you for taking my call. My dad's car was impounded last October 2024. The car was not. They were charging more than. Than the car was worth. Very beat up old car. We made the decision of not picking it up. And my dad is. Was going at the moment still kind of is through very difficult financial situation. He's 83, living only on Social Security. And now we are receiving. He received a letter from a lien enforcement saying that if he doesn't pay $3,000 because of accumulated fees, they will send them to collections. And I don't know how to help.

[Caller]

Can he just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't know what to do.

[Caller]

I had this happen to me once. I sold my car to my little brother and my brother, I mean him and his Bud. It was a. Not a great car and they just destroyed it. It's pretty hilarious. But they left it like in a field somewhere in nowhere, Texas. And then I got a call like five years later saying I owed $2,000 in storage fees or I could surrender the car. And I on the phone, I just said merry Christmas, y' all got yourselves a car. And I hung up the phone like the car was. I didn't buy. Bought it for half that back in the day. Can they just surrender the car?

[Dr. John Deloney]

What was that again? I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Can. Can often this. This impoundment fees. Like basically it's a storage fee. They'll. They'll exchange the fee for that car. The old beat up car that he left there.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the thing is that they picked them. They picked up the car from the street because my dad had. It was parked for more. You know, the. When it's parked too long.

[Caller]

Right. But where's that. Where's that car now?

[Dr. John Deloney]

They said they. So I guess they sold it. The company that. The company that picked it up already sold that vehicle.

[Caller]

Okay. If they sold it, then there needs to be a. They need to take. Apply that sale price to the. To the impound.

[George Camel]

Yeah, they made some money, so that would reduce what he would owe.

[Caller]

They can't just sell a car like. Like you would see, Your dad would still have the title, wouldn't he?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, he does. I mean, he does. But I guess the, the. The tow truck company that took it once, it's not once it's not. If it's not picked up, it goes into one of those. I'm trying to think of the name where they just sell, you know, where they sell the vehicles. The auction the vehicles that aren't picked up. Yes.

[George Camel]

So what was the car worth?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, my goodness. It was. I mean, we were thinking it was worth maybe like 500 bucks at the most. It was very beat up. I mean, that's why when we got the. When we were sent the papers that we were going to pay about 450 to just take the car out. At that moment, it just turns. My dad was already in a lot of debt. It's like, where do we pay that? What? You know, he was already having to.

[George Camel]

Pay other things, and it just got worse and worse and worse. Now with all the fees they're looking to charge you and threatening with collections.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And Your dad has $0 to his name now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Exactly how much debt does he have right now? The thing. I just helped him. I just helped them finish off paying up the debt. But right now, because he lives in a condominium, they're doing special assessments, and it's a whole other story with that, with how much he's going to have to pay with that for that.

[George Camel]

Well, he can't afford that either.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, it's. I don't know. You know, I know the Lord will provide somehow. He. I mean, he rap the moment that when the car was impounded, he was owing about $6,000 for something else, that I've been helping him out kind of sort out his finances.

[George Camel]

What's your financial situation?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ye. Oh, my goodness. It's not bad. It's not bad as my dad, but.

[George Camel]

Well, I don't think he's the one to compare your life to.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

I mean, I don't want you to fall into the same traps because you're busy trying to help dad. So now you're in a financial bind and this we continue this generational curse.

[Caller]

Or you keep waiting for the Lord to provide, but y' all are burying your head in the sand.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, no, definitely. And I found you guys this year, so I'm really, like, getting, you know, to do my finances the way, you know, you guys are, you know, advised.

[Caller]

Okay. Step one. Step one of our plan is taking 100 ownership of the mess and not avoiding anything. So that might be that you call the impound place and we call this a stupid tax around here. We do say that with a smile on our face. We're not calling anybody stupid. But you call them and say, I got a thousand dollars. That's all I'm paying for this thing. My dad's on fixed income. He has nothing. They will do somersaults. And backflips that they got anything from you. And tell them you already sold my dad's car. We still have the title of it. You. You took the car, you sold it. So for the price that you got for it, and here's a thousand bucks, this is over. Send me this in writing and I will give you a cashier's check, period. Okay, you might have to help him out there, but just get it done. And then the condo stuff, don't put your head in the sand on that because those fees are going to pile up on you too. And crazy. You're going to be in the same boat. Except he's going to lose his house. So let's take that sucker head off.

[George Camel]

So you've got some homework to do. You've got to contact them and say, hey, I need a. The sale price breakdown proving that this car was sold for how much? I need a fee. Breakdown of what? Everything you're charging me is for after the sale of the car was removed from that. And then you need to dispute or negotiate the balance.

[Caller]

Okay, you're going to want to get.

[Dr. John Deloney]

A day with the.

[Caller]

You want to get a day breakdown, a 24 hour breakdown on how they arrived at this three thousand dollar number.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay?

[Caller]

They can't just make it up. And if they're charging you $70 a day or something stupid like that, then you dispute that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, should I go directly to the letter that I received from the lien enforcement or go to. I have the letter of the initial. A company that towed the. The vehicle.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I would trace it all the way back and get every piece of documentation you can from the start of this to where it is today and who's been contact. Keep records of everything, who you talk to, when you talk to them, what they said, because these people will really try. I mean, don't give them access to any bank accounts and don't make any promises, but if you guys can negotiate on a price in writing, say, hey, can we call this paid in full, off the record. If we pay this amount, this is all we have. And tell him he's broke, he's got collections all over the place. He's 83. He can't pay. You know, they got nothing to really go after here. And so they're just trying to roughhouse you into getting a. A little bit, as much as they can.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

[Caller]

And Lily, I want you to hear me so clearly. This is for you and everybody listening. Conflict deferred is conflict amplified.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. Yeah.

[Caller]

Avoiding any sort of conflict, dispute. I don't want to pick my car up. Yada. It will come back to haunt you.

[George Camel]

That 400 bucks already turned into three grand.

[Caller]

That's $3,000. And even if you get it down to a thousand bucks, it's $1,000. Y' all could have just gone to pick up the car, paid 50 bucks, and set it on fire in a parking lot. And it would have been cheaper than what y' all are doing now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Same thing with a condo. Same thing with his retirement. Same thing with his insurance. Everything he's got facing him. Conflict deferred is conflict amplified. So let's just head into these problems one after the other after the other.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay?

[Caller]

He's lucky to have you as his daughter, by the way.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, thank you so much.

[Caller]

He's lucky to have you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. And I love hearing you guys. And I'm. I'm gonna apply it to my. To my finances, for sure.

[George Camel]

Good. Lily's. I don't want Lily's kids calling in saying, hey, my mom got her car impounded. You're gonna break this generational curse.

[Caller]

Hang on the phone. We're gonna give you financial peace University. I'm gonna hook you up, and I want you to watch all of all nine videos and begin to take control of your money. Sounds like your dad's gonna need you by his side in that back half.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I can I tell this guy's been through a lot, and he's just kind of in la la land going, well, what are you gonna do?

[Caller]

Yeah, the problem is the debt all around him. Yeah. Yeah. That idea that I'm just gonna not deal with this. I'll deal with it later. Like the student loans, they don't go away. The car at the impound lot, the insurance premium you forgot to pay. Yesterday, we talked to somebody, elapsed two days, and her husband died. Like, this stuff just doesn't go away. He's gotta continue to head into it and head into it and head into it.

[George Camel]

It's brutal. Absolutely brutal. So sorry you're going through this, Lily. We're wishing you and your dad the. Let's get real, folks.

[Caller]

Healthy eating.

[George Camel]

Sounds good.

[Caller]

Until your day gets really busy and.

[George Camel]

Suddenly you're gulping down your third frozen.

[Caller]

Pizza of the week.

[George Camel]

That's why I love Field of Greens. It's a superfood powder that gets me real fruits and veggies selected by doctors to help my heart, lungs, metabolism, and so much more. I m with water.

[Caller]

Shake it up, and boom.

[George Camel]

I'M fueling my body without slowing down my day.

[Caller]

And here's the truth. I expected it to taste like dish soap, but it tastes great, really great. Plus, field of Greens promises that your.

[George Camel]

Doctor will notice your improved health or.

[Caller]

You get your money back.

[George Camel]

Go to fieldofgreens.com Ramsey for 20% off your first order. That's fieldofgreens.com Ramsey and save 20% on your first order. Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And between clickbait headlines and confusing data, it's tough to know what's actually going on in the housing market. So let's make these trends easy to understand. Median home prices went up slightly last month to about $430,000. And there are way more homes on the market, right? Nearly 1 million more, the highest since 2019. But in a lot of areas, still not enough to meet buyer demand. There's still some really hot areas out there. Real estate is very local. And so the average 15 year fixed rate rose to almost 6% last month. And if you're financially ready, a small rate increase should not hold you back from buying a home you love if you're financially ready. So to learn more about housing market trends, get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence. Be sure to go check out our [e-mail] market or click the link in the show notes. If you're listening on YouTube or podcast, Andy's up next in Sacramento. What's going on, Andy?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Gentlemen, thanks for taking my call. Looking for some divine wisdom?

[George Camel]

That's John.

[Caller]

You called the wrong show, brother.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, sorry about that. A little bit of a disagreement between the spouse and I.

[Caller]

Yes, we'll solve it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Well, Kim, holding you to your word. So Yesterday was our 25th anniversary. I really tried to get on the air yesterday but couldn't get on. But as it regards our oldest dependent, Junior's a good kid. He's going to be a junior in college. He's also in flight training. He's following in my footsteps. I'm an airline pilot. He wants to do the same thing, but it's expensive and I want him to have a piece of the pie. My parents had me pay for part of my education. I've been bankrolling it, cashing it as we go. We make good money. My wife, that's kind of our kicker. My wife thinks we make really good money and that she thinks he should start with a fresh coat of paint and no, nothing holding him back. And I think he needs to pay for part of it not right away. Let him get his first job maybe six months later, start a payment plan back to mom and pops for.

[George Camel]

So this went from. I want him to have skin in the game too. I want him to take out a personal loan unbeknownst to him.

[Caller]

I want to be the bank of dad.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I want him to have a piece of it to where some ownership in his. Because college is one thing. He wants to be a pilot. Great. That's to the tune of about $80,000 on top of college to do to go through all of your flight training.

[George Camel]

What was the conversation like when he was heading off to college? Was it, hey, mom and dad, we've got it covered completely or he's got scholarships? What's, what was the understanding?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, he gets a $15,000 scholarship. He's a smart kid. He was going to do engineering until his last semester of high school. And then he hated all of his engineering classes. And we're like, okay, so now what? So now we kind of scrambled. He, he's, he's always showing an interest in aviation.

[George Camel]

So who's paying for college now? You said he's, he's a junior.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, he's a junior. We're paying for it. Okay, there's no loan.

[George Camel]

And that was the agreement. I want to know what was the agreement. You hand shook and said, hey, we've got this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There was no agreement. There was. I want. We'll talk about this down the road. There was no amount set, but you know, I think we need to have some kind of, some kind of. Especially with adding the aviation because the aviation is on top. Call it.

[Caller]

Yeah, okay, but hold on. I, I feel like you're, you're giving me two messages. Message number one, I want my son to have some skin in the game like I did because it made me appreciate the, the, the scratch and clawing that is to be a new pilot and all those.

[George Camel]

Chromy, you should get more seriously in class cuz you're paying for it too.

[Caller]

But then I hear you saying over and over, man, this is just really expensive. So have you. Which is it? Do you want him to like have some skin in the game or did you already have like you want to get him off the payroll and have this 80,000 doll truck. No, no, no.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm talking, I'm talking some skin the game. Like, like $20,000 payable like 2, 300 bucks a month as he went. After he gets his first job, he'll start out making probably 80, 90, $100,000 a year as A. As a new airline pilot. I'm not talking. I don't want him to pay $80,000 and then pay for his college. I want just some ownership like I did. I was about $25,000 I paid back to my dad. I felt kind of good.

[Caller]

I don't love the idea of you becoming the bank of dad. I do love the idea of a kid having skin in the game. I love the idea of maybe for the rest of this summer and for the summer after his junior year and the summer after his senior year before flight school that he works for the business of mom and dad's house and he earns. Y' all keep an hour log or. I. I don't. Y' all figure that out. I don't love him starting the world indebted to you financially. You came along in a season when jobs were available, when technology wasn't threatening. Everybody's everything. I hate the idea that he would be 25 or 20 grand in the hole to dad and then there being a hiring freeze or an economic issue or something, and now y' all can't even be in the same room together. Or every time he take. Goes takes a girl on a date, you're like, where's my money?

[George Camel]

Like, man, it changes the whole relationship. I want him to call you as a friend, as an adult to catch up and talk flight school and how things are going. Not, hey, man, where's my money?

[Caller]

Yeah, you.

[George Camel]

You missed last month's payment. Where's it at? And so I just. I don't love the idea of this. I like the idea of having skin in the game. But can he work part time while he's in training school? To where you agree? A set amount he pays for out of pocket. That would be a better scenario.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, he's working in the summer at home now. He works. He does work some during school. He has a lot of fun. I know that. But during school. But yeah, I guess.

[George Camel]

Where is this coming from on your.

[Caller]

Wife'S side to back me up? I. I just. I. Let me tell you, dude, I bought a car for a thousand dollars when I was in high school And I put $100 down and I thought my dad covered the other 900 bucks. He thought I paid it. And that 900 bucks, dude drove a wedge between us. I mean, it had a ripple effect. It was way beyond 900 bucks because I thought he. And he thought I. And then it became this embarrassment and then, I mean, just became a thing on thing on thing. The guy then who sold Me, the car was a great man who passed away. The whole thing got sideways. It was over 900, and this is way beyond that. And it worked out for you and your dad, man. George and I would not have a job if every one of these things worked out. And so I can't good conscience tell you to become a bank for your son and have him graduate saying, I owe you or you owe me? I. This makes me just sick to my stomach, man. But I do love the idea of skin the game.

[George Camel]

He doesn't sound entitled at all. You're telling me. He's a real hard worker. He's got scholarships. He's a real smart kid. Nothing about this feels like he's just using you guys as a. As a bankroll.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, I mean, he's. He's had a fairly easy path.

[George Camel]

Would he say that?

[Caller]

Or is it easy compared to what you went through back in my day? Uphill, by the way, Naked in the snow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would. He. I think he would agree. He's. He's a pretty humble kid. He has a. He has a fairly, you know, he has a nice little Toyota he gets to drive.

[George Camel]

Are you guys. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it. Are you guys scared that you created too much privilege for him? In a sense, I kind of am.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. My wife and I have also disagreed on that.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

How does she feel? If she was on the line right now, what would she say? To butt in here?

[Dr. John Deloney]

She would agree more with you. Which I was not counting on.

[George Camel]

Not going how I needed it to.

[Caller]

I mean, both George and I have accounts for our kids to go to college. I want to support them. And also I'm going to have an expectation that I'm going to preset with my kids that they have. They work, they maintain a GPA and purchasing pear trees. So all that stuff's good.

[George Camel]

And Dave Ramsey did the same. He said, I will cover you to go to an in state school for four years.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Anything outside of that or beyond that is on you. And so I think you can set the boundary line. But I also wouldn't like go, hey, you're Gonna owe me 50 grand if you do this. Either. That also feels crazy.

[Caller]

Can I. Can I throw another option out there at you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

And that way you can say you didn't totally lose. You can tell your wife, oh, I have a third option. And that way we can all save face together. Because I want to be on your side too, man. Ask your son, who is a junior. Right. He's a Junior.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now he's going to be a junior.

[Caller]

He's rising Junior. Okay, I want you to take him out to breakfast this Saturday and I want you to say, hey, here's the reality of flight school. It's $80,000. My dad and I had an agreement that I borrowed 25 grand from him and he covered the rest of it. I don't want to be your bank. I always want to be your dad. But you have to have some skin in the game. And so your responsibility over the next two weeks is to write me a proposal for what skin in the game is going to mean for you, okay? And put the onus on him. And that way when things get dicey, three or four years from now, when he's exhausted and doesn't want to do X, Y or Z or whatever y' all agreed on, you can say, hey, hey, you wrote the terms to this and I agreed to him. And so you're shifting the skin of the game onto him. What is he? What's the investment in this thing worth for him? And let him come back to you on that. And it has a way of leveling the playing field when you're talking to an adult, a rising adult child. So give that a shot.

[George Camel]

I like that plan. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Insurance world, like that whole life crap.

[George Camel]

Posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options. And they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I trust them and you can, too.

[George Camel]

Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or.

[Dr. John Deloney]

For a more personal touch.

[George Camel]

Give them a call at 800-356-4282. The Ramsey Show Question of the day is brought to you By Y Refi Defaulted private student loans can feel like a wall you'll never be able to climb. But why Refi may be able to help you get over it. They'll work with you to explore a payment plan tailored to your situation. So go to yrefi.comramsey to learn more. That's the letter Y, r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Caller]

Today's question comes from Owen in Washington. Owen writes, my partner and I have been together for two years and have lived together for one. We frequently talk about getting married. I've brought up opening a joint house account to split expenses. Oh gosh. For housing and possibly utilizing it as a savings vehicle. But this idea was shot down quickly. All right, you're dating well, Owen. We know how much the other earns, but that's about it. When is it time to share our financial situations and when is it a flag if one partner doesn't want to share at all? If marriage is the path we're on, then this seems like a necessary first step. Yes, you should share financial situation before you decide to become roommates.

[George Camel]

Yeah, they're on step five. So he's talking about first step. I'm like, you've already. We blew past that long ago.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, it's, I would say it's the huge, humongous, gigantic calling all cars red flag if you're considering a long term relationship with somebody. You're considering moving in with somebody, which I don't recommend for multiple reasons. Or if you're choosing to marry somebody and they won't talk to you about their financial situation. Yeah, Huge giant red flag and getting, trying to get cute about it and being like, well, let's create a super house fund that might be like part this, part savings account, part utility. But no, because then you're going to be like, you talk about like venmoing your spouse.

[George Camel]

Gosh.

[Caller]

Like, hey, I got, I got Arby's last night for 11. So just Venmo me. Well, I got coffee, so it's only 238.

[George Camel]

Like just keeping score, like that's exhausting.

[Caller]

Oh my gosh, dude, that's not a marriage that was destroyed back in August. I took out the trash. So you have to have to.

[George Camel]

Exactly. So it'll never end. So when is the time to talk about this and share more? I mean, it starts with values and principles before it goes into exact numbers. And currently, unless you're heading towards marriage and heading towards engagement, there's no reason to dig into someone's financial situation unless they're calling this show. So I think they're, the reason they're shooting this down is because you're, you're coming on a little strong here with your business proposal of how we're going to run this household without really any further indication this relationship is moving, moving forward. And so that's the worrisome part. But I would say as you're heading into engagement, would be the time to get into specifics of, hey, before we move forward, like, I got another financial picture. Are we on the same page? Do you have debt? Are we on track to pay it off in our lifetime? What are our financial goals as we build wealth together? But I feel like you guys have made a mess of this, so you got to untangle this knot first. John, any suggestions on what this next conversation needs to be?

[Caller]

Well, we joke on the show about playing house and when people move in together, even though all the data suggests otherwise. There's this idea that we're going to move in together and we're going to kind of like practice that will create.

[George Camel]

Intimacy and further the relationship.

[Caller]

Well, not even that. We're going to practice marriage and see if we're combat compatible. And what anyone who's been married more than five seconds will tell you is every marriage goes through seasons where we would not be together except we're married. And we have to figure this out. We're anchored to the same boat and we're going to figure this thing out. And so this idea that we're practicing for something beyond just dating, it doesn't bear out in the data. Right? You'd think that people who live together, their marriages are better. It's not right. They end up not being. So when we say play house really seriously, that's what's happening. We're, we're pretending we have a long term relationship or we're practicing for something, but it doesn't work that way. And so what I would say is to back all the way out. And it sounds like I'm just reading between the lines here and I'm speculating a lot. Obviously one of you is probably moving in because they like the benefits. The roommate with benefits of the intimacy benefits, the split cost, split cost benefits. And one of you was practicing for marriage. And so I think it's this is one of those, let's swipe an arm across the table, clear the deck and say where are we? Or as the kids say, dt. Dtr Define the relationship.

[George Camel]

Way to go, John. You're seven years later that's awesome.

[Caller]

One of my students one time was like, yeah, we're having a DTR tonight. And I was like, I don't know what that means. So it was good? Yeah, it was a long time ago. They probably moved on to new things.

[George Camel]

Now, but I think it's still a good.

[Caller]

Them and the kids. But you have to decide, what are we doing? What are we doing?

[George Camel]

But there's not a certain. Well, you've been dating a year. Now's the time to have the debt talk. It doesn't work like that.

[Caller]

No. And also, don't be a weird Ramsey person who's like. Like, hi, my name is so and so. My net worth is this. How much debt do you. Don't be that weirdo either.

[George Camel]

Do you want to see my budget?

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Whoa.

[Caller]

Where do you see my. Too soon? Yeah, too soon.

[George Camel]

Well, good luck, Owen. I hope you can salvage this and get them to open up and move forward in a healthier way. Okay, off to the phones we go. Kirsten is in Atlanta. Up next. What's going on?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi, Dr. Kirsten. That's okay. Kirsten, I have a question. Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay, good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. How do I go about paying some credit card debt? I have roughly about 600 total of credit cards.

[Caller]

Yeah, hold on one second. Kirsten. Kirsten, talk directly into your phone for me. I can't hear you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can you hear me now?

[Caller]

Much better. Much better.

[George Camel]

So you've got credit card debt.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How do I. Yeah, how do I go about paying it if I only have about 200 and something in savings? And it's about 600 total of bills? And it's, like, really lowered my credit score because I think I forgot to pay one of the bills, and I got a letter that said my account might be delinquent, which is really bad. I need to contact the company and pay that.

[Caller]

No, you don't. Yeah, you just. I hate to say, honestly, gonna sound so callous. So I'm only saying this because I care about you. You got to go get a job and earn that money. There's not a. There's not a magic way here.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I actually have, like, three or four job interviews this week and have another one tomorrow and Friday. Awesome.

[Caller]

Just, if they say you're hired, say, can I start right now?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I did say that. I said I could start immediately, and I should hear back by next week if I got a job.

[George Camel]

What else are you doing to bring an income this week? Are you doing side gigs?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So the only other thing is I was selling stuff online on Makari I've had success, a little success with that in ebay. I'm trying to sell a dress that's a free people dress that's worth maybe 100. And then I started a YouTube, but that takes a while.

[George Camel]

No, we need like money now.

[Caller]

Yeah, you have to get like a job job.

[George Camel]

So that mean like, I did this in December. Kirsten. Here's what I did. I downloaded the Instacart driver app and then it let me go drive for money. And that night I made money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know Uber, but I'm a pretty bad driver. Sorry.

[George Camel]

Oh, yikes.

[Caller]

Yeah, but you got to do something. You got to do something. There's nothing example.

[George Camel]

I'm saying we need money today.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Something. Do Uber with a bike. Not ideal.

[Caller]

Yeah, don't do that.

[George Camel]

I'm just saying find the things that you are capable of doing in your area that can give you money this week. Not a hope for money later on down the road.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Maybe dog walking. That's the perfect thing. That's all I can think of.

[Caller]

Get on there today. You'll get healthy in the process. But. But like put on Facebook, Marketplace or next door app. Like right now, right when you get off this phone and start making money tonight. Like, it's. It's. It's this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Do you mean like selling stuff or dog walking?

[Caller]

Start dog walking tonight.

[George Camel]

Night. How old are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. I'm 25.

[George Camel]

Okay. How much debt do you have total?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Just the credit card, maybe about 600 total. I'm not really sure.

[George Camel]

Okay. And you said you think you forgot to make the credit card payment?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I've been trying to log in to see, but I think I'm having a little trouble. Like, I think it was one of those, like. So I have like the wrong payment method on file and I forgot to update it and then they somehow charged.

[George Camel]

How long ago is this? Has it been more than 30 days?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Maybe a month or two ago, which is really bad.

[George Camel]

And it's already affected your credit score.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, it could also be I haven't been paying my other credit cards in full. Like, I try to pay a little over the minimum, which I can.

[Caller]

Yeah, it could be that too.

[George Camel]

I think it's time to cut up all the credit cards.

[Caller]

Yeah, stop. Just stop.

[George Camel]

And we need to.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I do need to, like, cut them off. I don't have to pay them all off.

[George Camel]

Do you stay on top of your rent and utility bills?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I actually live at home with my parents. Luckily, I don't have to pay rent yet, but at some point I will have to.

[George Camel]

Okay. I want you to step into adulthood and get out of this cycle that you've created for yourself. And that means we're going to cut up the cards, we're only going to use money we have and we're going to create delayed gratification and we're going to get a job and we're going to climb out of this debt and.

[Caller]

Stay out, stay on the line. We're going to send you financial peace University. I can just bang my head on the desk. But I think you need to watch, watch these videos and not just the clips on YouTube. I want you to get watch all nine videos and do exactly what it says.

[Dr. John Deloney]

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions possibly? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks?

[George Camel]

Well, credit unions for one thing are non profit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you get better interest rate on.

[George Camel]

Savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But what's more important than that though.

[George Camel]

Is the fact that the customer is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That aren't very customer centric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

[George Camel]

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Done a really, really good job with.

[George Camel]

Customer service and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach they so line up with. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I do just signed up and we got an account and I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again they just really care about your experience and I, I so, so appreciate that. Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch you can do with [e-mail] or on their app and you'll have free access to over.

[George Camel]

Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general and so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and Savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey Tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. You guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org Ramsey Fairwinds is.

[George Camel]

Federally insured by NCUA from Ramsey Network. This is the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-255-225. Marianne is going to kick us off this hour in Ann Arbor, Michigan. What is going on? Marianne?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi. How are you guys doing?

[George Camel]

Doing great. How can we help today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good. Yeah. I was hoping I could get some help with our financial situation to try to compact a long story. My husband lost his job of 12 years about six months after our first child was born. And we went through kind of a long period of unemployment. I ended up with an autoimmune disease where I can't work. I'm staying at home taking care of our son. My husband has landed back on his feet with a steady job that we're very thankful for, but we're not making it month to month. We're making about half of the money we're used to making. We got ourselves into a lot of debt during the unemployment, and with me not being able to work anymore, and we don't know where to go.

[Caller]

Yeah. Tell me about your autoimmune challenges.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. It was brought on actually by postpartum. And I tried my best to work through health issues, thinking it was postpartum. And it was diagnosed as Hashimoto's, which is a chronic. Yeah, it's a thyroid condition.

[Caller]

Yeah. But it's. It's exacerbated greatly by emotional distress, family stress, relationship distress. Right.

[Dr. John Deloney]

100.

[Caller]

Okay, so here's. Here's what I want you to commit to. Will you commit to something for me?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure.

[Caller]

Don't give up on yourself. Okay. Because I can hear in your voice you have a sense of shame about your situation, and that sets your body on fire from the inside out, Right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It absolutely does.

[Caller]

Okay, so before we get off this call, George is going to walk you through the money part of it. I'm going to hook you up with my friends at BetterHelp. I'm gonna give you three months of therapy for free. And you can do it from your house. You don't have to go anywhere. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's amazing. Thank you.

[Caller]

I want you to talk to somebody, but you have to promise you're gonna. You're gonna work, not fight. We're done fighting. Your body's exhausted, but we're gonna metabolize some of this stuff and we're gonna make peace in our body from the inside out. And we're gonna talk to somebody and connect with a counselor and to connect with a therapist, and we're not gonna give up. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you.

[Caller]

This is a. Right now. It's not. It's not a death sentence. Not forever. Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you very much.

[Caller]

All right.

[George Camel]

So where is your husband at with this whole thing? Does he realize that you guys are struggling and in survival mode?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, yeah, very much so.

[George Camel]

And what does he make?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Growth is about 73 or 74,000 a year. Take home after taxes and our health insurance. He is contributing to a 401k. It's $50 a week, which we've talked.

[Caller]

About.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not doing short term. I know that's advised sometimes. So his growth or his take home, after all, that is about 4100amonth.

[George Camel]

Okay. And we could increase that tomorrow to 4300amonth if we stop investing temporarily.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. Okay. His work does offer a pretty good match, though. It was.

[George Camel]

I don't care if they offer bon bonds and lollipops. At the end of the day, you guys are.

[Caller]

You don't have any money. Yeah, yeah.

[George Camel]

Building wealth is not your. Is not the problem right now. It's survival. And so let's focus on one thing at a time. We'll get back to building wealth, I promise. So if he does that, what are your total monthly expenses as it stands?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I did the every dollar app and I put in just, you know, we've cut back. We're a one car household. We don't go out to eat. We don't go on vacation. We don't have fun. And it says we have about $80 left every month, which feels like a lot more than it is at the end of the month.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you got 80 bucks left over to throw at debt. How much debt do you guys have total?

[Dr. John Deloney]

With student loans and credit cards, we have worked ourselves into about 35,000. We have not been able to pay toward it. It.

[George Camel]

Are you making minimum payments?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No.

[George Camel]

So what's going on with these debts?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so we kind of tried to work some stuff out with the lenders and we just. We weren't able to afford it just point blank period until my husband got back on his feet just over a year ago with his job.

[George Camel]

So are you guys behind on all these bills? And they're Sending them to collections.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Yes, yes.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We are. Unfortunately, we had a family member pass and we are getting some inheritance.

[George Camel]

We weren't expecting how much?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's going to be around 75,000. So that does help with that debt. We do plan to put it toward that, however, that we don't know what to do. Like, I feel like there's this huge monster looming over us of like not being able to afford life. And I feel pressure with this money coming in, being able to do the right thing.

[George Camel]

Let me get it straight. You have $35,000 total in debt. You're getting an inheritance of 75,000 in the next, what, month? Six months? Do you know?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Maybe two months, maybe three.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you're telling me that in 90 days you guys could become completely debt free with $40,000 in savings?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Correct. It doesn't sound like you're confident in that plan. I just, I'm just doing napkin math going, you guys just got a get out of jail free card with this inheritance.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know it feels like that. And then I just look at like, like we're not even paying toward our debt right now and we can't afford things. We've talked about possibly selling our house. I don't want to get back in the position where we empty our savings again because it was.

[George Camel]

You don't have any.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Terrifying, right?

[George Camel]

But if you had no debt and $40,000, why would you need to go into debt ever again?

[Caller]

Your family would have plenty of time for your husband to work this job, which is admirable, possibly at a second job, which he's not going to see. You not see the kids. It doesn't matter. We're surviving right now while also getting up at 4:30 in the morning and applying for other jobs.

[George Camel]

But your income is not the problem. I mean, he makes more than the average American salary for a household. What's your mortgage every month?

[Dr. John Deloney]

1579.

[George Camel]

That's not the problem either. So I'm confused. Where's the other, you know, 2500 bucks going every month? You said you're not eating out and you're not paying your debt bills and.

[Caller]

You only have one car.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, our car payment is 390. And then car insurance, you know, that, that, that sort of groceries are about 600.

[George Camel]

I think you need to sit down with your husband, look at this budget and go, hey, this inheritance is a blessing. It's going to clear our debts. It's not going to change our habits and behavior. What are we doing to make sure this never happens? Again. And part of that is going to be going through Financial Peace University so that you guys have some shared common language, some shared vision for what the future is going to look like. And you're going to look back at this time and go, never again.

[Caller]

Again.

[George Camel]

We are breaking this generational family curse of we're going to be broke forever. We're climbing out of this thing once and for all. So hang on the line. We're going to send you Financial Peace University as. As well as that. Three months of better help to get you guys through this. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package. You didn't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, I have George Sketchy and never trust him.

[George Camel]

And that's why we recommend Deleteme. They help with that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, they do. Delete Me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs.

[George Camel]

And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to.

[Caller]

To find so much.

[George Camel]

But Delete Me will delete your data. Hence the name. It's gone. They'll wipe it out for you so you can sleep easy.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed, and it's beautiful.

[George Camel]

Get this. So far, they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, remove me from 240 data brokers sites, and save me 77 hours of time. It's incredible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it.

[George Camel]

I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to join delete me.com Ramsey. That comes up to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Again, that's join delete me.com Ramsey. Make sure to check it out. You guys.

[George Camel]

Amanda's up next in Albuquerque, New Mexico. What's going on, Amanda? How can John and I help today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi. So my question for you guys is, my husband and I enrolled in a. I'm sorry. Into the national debt relief program to help with some.

[Caller]

Please don't do that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I Just read on the total money makeover. Not to do that, but I've already been doing it for a whole year. So my question is basically, did I just mess everything up? Is it too late to get out of it? Should I just stay in since I've already been in it for a year? I don't know what to do.

[George Camel]

Well, I'm sorry to hear that you fell for the, the lies from these companies that say, hey, we're going to solve all of your debt for you. And what they, I'm guessing, here's what they did. Tell me if I'm wrong. They said, hey, stop paying your debt payments. Instead, pay us those debt payments, let them come after you with collections, and then we'll settle with them for a lower amount.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay, so what kind of fees have you paid into it so far?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, since I've been on it for a year, I want to say probably around like maybe 5,000.

[George Camel]

Okay. So I would contact them and say, hey, what's the current balance in my settlement account? Have any debts been settled yet? What fees have been deducted and how do I cancel and withdraw the remaining funds? Okay, so no, it's not too late. Yes, there might be some fees, penalties, stupid tax to pay here that you're going to have to emotionally get over. But the key is you can do all the things they're doing yourself without all the fees and without taking your credit score and credit report. Okay, how much debt do you guys have?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Probably around 125. That includes our house.

[George Camel]

Okay, so outside of the mortgage, that's what you contacted these people for, right? The consumer debt?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

How much was that when you contacted the them?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So we enrolled with $34,000. They resolved what they said is around $16,000. They've already resolved.

[George Camel]

Okay, and so you have the remainder left to go?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And you'll be able to do that on your own. What's your household income?

[Dr. John Deloney]

We make both of us together, probably around 7,100amonth.

[George Camel]

That's amazing. You guys have a great income. Why did you turn to these people in the first place? What caused you guys to get desperate enough?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I had lost a really good paying job and I took a huge pay cut and then I wasn't able to, you know, pay some things. And then they started coming after us with like, lawyers threatening to sue us, and I got scared.

[George Camel]

I'm so sorry. Well, the good news is you take home 7,100 bucks a month, you throw three grand at this debt, it's gone in six months.

[Caller]

Months.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And by the way, can I make you feel better? I did the same exact thing. I was in my early 20s.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That does make me feel a little bit better.

[Caller]

I was in my early 20s. I kind of freaked out. Called one of these companies. I called to check in, like, four months later, and my debt was exactly the same. I just kept paying them money. And then I started getting letters, and then when I called the company, they were like, no, it's cool, bro. Just like. Just like, don't worry about the letters. And I don't know. I just didn't. None of it smelled right. And I just said, y' all can go buy a box of hair because I'm out.

[George Camel]

Yeah. They act like there's some kind of nonprofit charity that exists to help people who are hurting. They exist to bleed you dry for money while tanking your financial life and making you think they're doing you a favor. So I'm glad you at least caught it halfway through.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And the good news is.

[Caller]

Yeah, I know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I wish I would have grabbed this book earlier.

[George Camel]

That's okay. Well, you'll file it under the stupid tax category. We all have a thick book of all of our stupid tax stories, and you get to add to that. But call us back when you're debt free, and we will celebrate with you, Amanda.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Awesome. Thank you guys, so much.

[George Camel]

Absolutely. All right, Mark is up next in Tacoma, Washington. Mark, what's going on?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, good afternoon. My wife and I created an llc and basically for any business ventures that we wanted to take and also prep for, like, another endeavor after I retire from the fire service. And so we are wanting to add our daughters to our LLC that we created. So instead of having them as employees for this business, they'll be owners. I can save costs for the business and my daughters, more money for investments, more money for inheritance.

[Caller]

How big of a business is this taking over?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm just starting it out right now, so it's just at the ground right now, and I'm just trying to prevent getting taxed to death. We're in the state of Washington, and the governor and everybody else wants to tax us to death. So I have my view of, yeah, this sounds pretty great. I think it'll work. I've taken considerations of, okay, how much? What percentage would they own or have in the llc? But, of course, it's just my view. I'm curious what your views are, what your concerns that you see might happen in the future.

[Caller]

Well, I'll let George get into the nitty gritty the two big concerns I have, number one is it's a lot of thinking down the road for something that's just getting started. There's no assets yet, there's no money. And so if the company, I know Dave did that with his, like his three kids are owners of the company. And so I, I don't have the nuances. George may know the nuances, but I know Dave is technically not an owner of this company. He's a shareholder, the single shareholder and he's the CEO. He makes the decisions, but he's not the owner. And, but there was, what is it, 25 years or 20 years they did this before, built up a pretty substantial business before they made that move. And so yeah. George, what do you think?

[George Camel]

Yeah, I mean that. Well the part where I was like, well, I set this up for future endeavors. What, what is the business you're want and does it make sense for them to even have ownership in it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Having ownership in it. I mean one of the main concerns, just like I went to a workshop yesterday and the state brought in all the different like Department of Revenues, etc. Secretary of State. So the one thing that I'm trying to prevent is it's like you don't know if Social Security is going to be there. So I want to try and eliminate them having to pay Social Security if possible.

[George Camel]

How old are they?

[Dr. John Deloney]

22. 22 and 20.

[George Camel]

Do they want any part in this invisible business? Have they, have you guys talked about this?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I haven't talked to them yet. I've talked to my wife about adding them, but I'm just trying to get all the answers to any possible questions before we even offer this up.

[Caller]

My guess is before they become owners of a company, they have to have of they've got to be in the business.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have the desire, they want to work the business.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I'm just trying to prevent as like paying too much in like Social Security, Social Security, unemployment, l and I and of course the mandatory long term care tax that the state has imposed.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And yeah.

[George Camel]

Yeah. I don't see this as being the tax hack. I don't know. What was this like a video? Where did you even hear about this as a strategy?

[Caller]

This is an idea that I came.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Up with myself and just taking a look at, it's like, well, do owners have to pay all these other.

[George Camel]

Hey, I don't think there's a world where it's like, well my kids are a part of it so I don't have to pay taxes. So I would have you worked with a CPA before? Do you have a tax pro that you trust?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm going to be finding.

[George Camel]

Okay, you can jump on Ramsaysolutions.com and click on trusted experts. And we have a vetted network of tax pros that can help you with this. That's who I would go to. I'm not an expert in setting up LLCs for, you know, tax benefits and all of that, but I will tell you, I've seen a lot of people who, you know, saw a TikTok about how they can get their six year old to model and they can pay them $30,000 a year and it's a hack of the wealthy and that's. I just call BS on that. And it's a good way to get audited. Now, your daughters are obviously grown, so the new concern is why would they want to work in a business that doesn't exist with the promise of a paycheck one day I would just go, hey, I'm going to build the business on my own. And if they feel called to it later on down the road, they're welcome to be a part of it. That's how I would approach it personally.

[Caller]

Or even at the. Well, no, they're already, they're already grown up. I had a whole other idea if they were really young, but they're not. So. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Can you pitch me the business in 15 seconds?

[Caller]

Yeah. What's the business.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Going in? Flushing tankless water heaters. Not everybody knows that tankless water heaters need to be serviced, flushed annually.

[Caller]

Great idea. I would hire you to come do that at my house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

I love it.

[Caller]

Next part. I'm in Tennessee. We don't have all those taxes here. So.

[George Camel]

Yeah, see if you can do it. See if you can make money. And if they get excited about the prospect of being a part of this, invite them in on it and then figure out what are the taxes, tax implications. Now, is it better or worse? Who knows what? But I think the CPA is a great start. And then getting this business off the ground is the next step. Let me tell you something. Most home security systems don't work until after someone breaks in. That's like putting your seatbelt on after the wreck.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's too late.

[George Camel]

And that's why I recommend SimpliSafe. Their active guard outdoor protection helps stop break ins before they happen. Their AI powered cameras work together with live SimpliSafe agents to monitor your property in real time. So if someone's creeping around your house, those agents can talk to them trigger the spotlight and even call the police right then and there. It's proactive protection, not just a dressed up burglar alarm. Plans start at around a dollar a day. There are no contracts and no hidden fees and they offer a 60 day money back guarantee. So see why over 4 million Americans trust SimpliSafe. See why Newsweek and USA Today both ranked SimpliSafe number one in customer service and why CNET named it the best home security system of 2025. Plus, right now you can get 50% off a new SimpliSafe system with 24, 7 professional [e-mail] that's 50% off. @simplisafedirect.Com there's no safe like SimpliSafe foreign. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John DeLoney. And before we get to another call, John, I want to bring your attention to this article from the Atlantic. Here's the headline. There are two kinds of credit cards. And the writer talks about, you know, credit card balances are at an all time high $1.2 trillion. And the, you know, the share of borrowers who are late on their payments has reached its highest point since the aftermath of the Great Recession. So we're in a real crucial point here with the debt cycle we found ourselves in. And she goes on to say that this credit card market has now sort of divided. There's two paths here. There's two types of people using these credit cards. The one, the wealthy ones who have the generous benefits taking advantage of this. And then there's the other side, which is credit card companies offering expensive debt to the poor with sky high interest rates of now a 21.5% is the it's the highest average APR in decades.

[Caller]

Jeez. So probably the number one pushback we get from folks who when we say cut up your credit card is they always talk about, yeah, but I get free flights or I get free hotel points. And so if you go to Holiday Inn all the time and Holiday Inn, I have a buddy who travels a lot for work. And Holiday Inn is like a frequent flyer, frequent rewards member or you use Southwest, they give you points, that's fine. That's inside the company that's saying, hey, we want to discount you further for business, that's fine. But when you're using these credit cards and you get points on flights and whatever, you showed this in your book. But here's yet another article detailing when you sit on a flight paid for with credit card points. A single mother who's trying. You just had emergency expense is paying your playing, paying for that flight. The credit card company is not your friend. They're not hooking you up for using that. They're not like, hey, you know, you've used us a bunch. We're going to give you a free airline ticket. They're taking from somebody who can't afford to pay their bill or who is struggling and they're taking that person is paying your bill. And so I just want people to think through, man, if you're using cards just for the. I get free flights every year. Cool. But somebody's paying for that flight and that ultimately I'm not trying to be goody two shoes. When I before I worked at Ramsey, I had a move with a comp with my company and the company is going to pay for the move, but I had to front load it. I went and opened up a rewards card so I could get the flight points. And it wasn't until I was literally on the drive and I was like, wait a minute, who's, who's paying for this flight? These guys aren't my friends. And when I dug into it, it was like, oh my gosh, it's delinquent borrowers. Folks who are broke and who are struggling. They're paying for my, my, my flight or my hotel. And I just, I want out of that system completely. I don't ever want to be a part of a predatory system like that if I can in any way help it. So I just want to opt out of the whole gross game, man.

[George Camel]

Yeah. And that's what the article breaks it down into. These transactors. These are the wealthy well to do people, you know, they pay their annual fees but they're not racking up interest. They're not paying for any other charges every month. And then you've got the revolvers, which is the subprime borrower. Borrowers who are using this as a short term loan can't pay it back. Racking up 22% APR who are essentially subsidizing the rewards for the wealthy to do folks.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

And so again, it's not a moral thing. I don't, it's not a like you're still going to go to heaven if you use credit cards. But John's like, we'll see. Okay, we'll see. But the data that I broke down in my book Breaking Free from Broke, I did the research to go, I want to see data behind this, not just John's opinion. And this is from the Fed. They said there's an annual redistribution of $15 billion from less to more educated, poorer to richer, from high to low minority areas, widening existing disparities. So they found this in the data. And credit card companies, people say, well, George, it's coming from the, you know, the credit card transaction fees. And I dug into the revenue of Capital one and saw no, the majority of their revenue is happening through interest.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

And so we don't know exactly how the rewards are funded, but we do know the majority of the revenue is coming from interest and fees from the revolvers, the subprime borrowers versus the 3% they're charging business owners, which by the way, those people are also getting screwed.

[Caller]

And just so we know, between 2020 and right now and 2024, 100 billion more dollars. Credit card company firms, credit card firms made from interest payments. Payments. It went from 76 billion to $170 billion in 2024. It's wild.

[George Camel]

That explains why they're sponsoring the Taylor Swift tour. And we can't afford tickets to the Taylor Swift tour. That explains it. Thank you for that.

[Caller]

And by the way, I love that this person called this out. Once you have one issue, you're, you're brakes go out on your car. Suddenly you need to, you know, you're driving an old, old used Prius because that's what you can afford and somebody gave it to you. But now your local community has another hundred dollars because it's a hybrid fee and they don't have the gas revenues in your community. And suddenly you put something on the credit card, you just are like, dude, I have to. The washer breaks, your kid needs a pair of shoes for made the cross country team and you swipe it at 20something% interest. It's so hard to get out of that cycle.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Once you swipe it once, man, it's so tough to get out of it. So worth it, man. If you can avoid playing this game at all, get out of the game. Just opt out of the hole.

[George Camel]

And I tell people, I said, hey, use a debit card and do a budget and you will make back more than 2% in rewards.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Camel]

Just in how you spend.

[Caller]

High spend. Yeah.

[George Camel]

And you'll be able to just budget for all the things you want instead of hoping to be blessed by these companies.

[Caller]

So it breaks my heart, man, because there's people trapped in this deal and yeah, I hate it. There is, let's be honest, there's idiots who are like, what are buying burritos with Klarna or whatever. Yeah, that exists. Right. But that's outside the bell curve. The majority of Americans are trying to make stuff got way more expensive the last five or six years and it got way, way more expensive recently. People are just trying to survive and they're swiping this thing and once you get in that cycle, man, it is tough, tough to get out of. It's like a rip current.

[George Camel]

All right, let's go to the phones. Paul is in Miami up next. What's going on, Paul?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi, how are you guys?

[Caller]

What's up?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So I had a question in regards to what I should do in terms of life insurance and ways to invest my money.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I currently have a term life insurance, a 20 year term policy and.

[George Camel]

But I also do have a vul policy. Who sold you that? Who hates you that much? What enemies have you made?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Kind of scared that you guys were gonna say that. I didn't know too much about it. It's. I've only had it for about a month and a half now.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But I've been reading a little bit more into it.

[Caller]

My fiance, she, she got information about.

[Dr. John Deloney]

This and I do have my Roth ira, but I kind of got convinced to do this also. But I was a little skeptical about it just because the mixing life insurance policy with investing my money.

[George Camel]

Yeah. For those who are listening, let's explain. Paul. It's a variable universal life policy is what you signed up for.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Correct.

[George Camel]

And it's a type of permanent life insurance that does include a cash value portion that is invested. Okay. So your fiance got information about this. She has one. And now you have one too.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Okay. And you've had it for a month and a half or so?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Roughly, yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay. And what's the policy, what's the face value of the policy?

[Dr. John Deloney]

See, so for the, for the death benefit.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is 200,000 for the long term. For the life policy.

[George Camel]

And what's it cost?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Term is, it's about 230 bucks a month.

[George Camel]

And then how much do you have in term?

[Caller]

The term is 500k for the death.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Benefit and that's about 20 something dollars a month.

[George Camel]

Wow. So you're telling me you're telling the nation that it's 10 times less expensive to get term life with over double. Double the value.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Just making sure you heard that in front of everyone. So what's it going to cost to get out of this policy? Or are you trying to convince me that you want to stay in it?

[Caller]

No, on the contrary, I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The reason why I kind of like, gave it a chance because they, the way they explained to me about how.

[George Camel]

They also invest the money that we're putting into it is kind of like.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You got both with one. You know, you do get your life insurance, but more only for like, like an investment. And the returns for like a 30 year looks very similar to like a Roth IRA, like, kind of returns. So that's why we kind of decided to. Okay. You know, like, this doesn't seem like.

[George Camel]

What they also tell you is, well, man, you got to stick it out for like a decade and then you'll really see the growth. But the first couple years, you're mostly paying us premiums and fees. So here's what's going to hurt when you cancel this policy. There's going to be surrender fees, and it's going to hurt. Yes, there's going to be a stupid tax involved, but you and your fiance, if you're going to continue in this relationship, we're both canceling this thing together.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Do you need to convince her?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I. I don't think so. I told her I was going to.

[Caller]

Give you guys a call because she.

[George Camel]

Knows I listen to you guys good every morning. And then whoever this person that sold this to you block their number and tell everyone in your life to avoid them because they are not here to help anybody. I'm so sorry, man.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sam.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John DeLoney. Open phones at 888-255-225. John, let's talk about money and marriage.

[Caller]

Yeah, those are two things you and I talk about a lot. We're just hanging out as bros. That's what we do. That's right.

[George Camel]

We got two weekends on sale now for a Money in Marriage getaway which feature Dr. John DeLoney and our friend Rachel Cruz. I sometimes make a guest appearance if they're kind enough to have me. And it's three incredible days in Nashville with your spouse learning the tools to strengthen your connection, deepen your intimacy, and more. And this is. It's become one of my favorite events. We do.

[Caller]

There's something really special so far, my favorite event.

[George Camel]

Yeah, everyone has its own, like, vibe and flavor, and nobody leaves the same.

[Caller]

That's right. And the, the, the proof is in the pudding. We usually sell about half the tickets for the following year right there at that event. But people will say, I want this to become a part of the regular rhythm of our life. We want to get away for a weekend and go reimagine it. We' Working on the curriculum this year. It's going to be all brand new stuff and I'm pretty hyped about it. It's going to be awesome.

[George Camel]

Join us November or February. Early bird pricing is available now. Tickets start at 7. 49 per couple, which if you know about these marriage getaways, that's a steal.

[Caller]

We intentionally. Yeah, everybody's hurting out there financially and it's 749 bucks. Plus getting in Nashville, plus staying here for a few. That's expensive. We know that. It's not for everyone, but we intentionally make it cheaper than every other event because we want people to be able to. To come.

[George Camel]

Absolutely. So go check it out. Ramsey solutions.com getaway or click the link in the show notes. If you're listening on YouTube or podcast, it's going to be a good time. All right, let's go to the phones. Amy is up next in nyc. What's going on, Amy?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi. Thank you. So I have a relatively small car loan, but for my income it's pretty high. And, and my. I'm in college right now and my mom agreed to pay it until my brother finishes college because he's now using the car. It's a car I bought before I was enrolled in a bachelor program.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I did need it at the time, but then I got relocated to New York with a job I used to have and now I couldn't afford a car to park here and the public transit is better anyway.

[George Camel]

So you just don't need this car anymore and you've. You're stuck with this loan.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. So my mom's gonna pay it until for one year and then I'll still have a half or one semester in college by the time she stops making the payment.

[George Camel]

So who's driving it full time right now?

[Dr. John Deloney]

My brother in Salt Lake City.

[George Camel]

But he's not paying the payment. Mom is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, mom's paying the payment. My brother's paying me insurance. So it still is a win for me to have him.

[George Camel]

What is the win for you in this scenario? I'm so confused. So the car is going down in value and it's in your name. The loan is.

[Caller]

I feel like we're all getting high on our own supply right now.

[George Camel]

So loan is in your name. The title is in his name name. But mom is paying the payment.

[Caller]

You can't triple stamp a double stand.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I bought it in a title holding state, so the state has the title, but it is in my name.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But the win. The win is, is that like selling it Basically always would put me still paying off a car that I don't have because I will be upside down in it no matter what.

[George Camel]

That's why I'm confused how this is a way win. It's continually going down in value while you still have the loan amount.

[Caller]

How upside down are you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

For me, it's a lot. I think I could make maybe 1500 for it and I owe 6800 so.

[George Camel]

You owe 6800 and you think it's worth private party 1500?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think so. I went through a few different websites.

[George Camel]

But how crappy of a car is this? I mean I could sell like a.

[Caller]

Barbie Jeep My 500 more. Yeah. And it's not a great bike.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean. Yeah, I don't know. I really looked for a good car and I bought it for 13,000. And when I bought it, I'm not kidding, there was nothing for cheaper. That was certified with like a mechanic, you know.

[George Camel]

Okay, so what is your solution? What are you, what are you asking about today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I was thinking I don't have a credit card, but I do have good credit.

[Caller]

Please don't do this. Whatever you're about to say, don't do this. Do it. Are you going to try to take out a credit card and roll the balance like and try to beat the 0% for X number of months?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I won't if you tell me. Okay, I won't.

[Caller]

There's one way to do this one. You ready? This is a hack. This is the Instagram YouTube hack. Are you ready? Get three jobs and work like crazy for six months and pay the stupid thing off. It's killing you. And by the way, 100% chance this blows up and ruins your relationship with your mom and your brother. That's the only way. That's the hack.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I can't do three jobs right now. I already have one part time and I'm a full time student and I already like don't have a lot of time.

[Caller]

Okay, you get to pick your poison. I mean you're trying, you're, you're gonna. Credit cards don't offer you introductory 0% hookups because they're your friend. They know that if they can get a college student like you, there's a hundred percent chance that something will go wrong with this car and you don't have any cash.

[George Camel]

The people who fall for this stuff are desperate and there's a 3 to 5% transfer fee just to do this.

[Caller]

And so you'll pick up, you'll buy a tire and Then you'll pay the minimum because something else is going to come up, up, and then Mom's going to call and say, hey, I don't feel good. Can you come visit me? And you're going to put, okay, and you're going to put something else on that credit. It's just how it happens. You know how I know? Because it happened to me. It happens to millions and millions of people. Do you know how much more credit card interest credit card companies make in 2024 than they did in 2020?

[Dr. John Deloney]

No.

[Caller]

A hundred billion more dollars over just.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I've never had a credit card. They don't suggest that. I just never do one ever.

[Caller]

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever explain to.

[George Camel]

Me why you would need one and how it would benefit you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I have a good credit, and I don't have a problem like only buying things for the purpose of building credit.

[Caller]

Yes, you do. You have a car that you can't. That you're $5,000 upside down on.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But the situation I was in is you can't have a job in my old town without having a car. So I really did pick a very affordable option at the time because I made more money having a car than I think I would have.

[George Camel]

You made more money? You. I hope you're going to law school because you were great at justifying decisions.

[Caller]

Pretty incredible.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I. I mean, the public transit in Oklahoma isn't enough for you to have a. Like a job?

[Caller]

No, I totally get it.

[George Camel]

I totally get you. Just you were trying to go from, I need a car to get from A to B to, I actually made money by going into debt and being underwater in this car because technically my job provides me with more income.

[Caller]

My car that I went to college with was a 98 Tercel Easy hatchback that I could barely fit in because I'm a humongous guy. And it cost $1,000, and I sold it to my little brother for 300 bucks and he drove it to college until him and his friends all pitched in and they drove it out into a field until it exploded.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm very open into doing that in the future. I was nervous about getting stuck on the highway with, like, an unreliable.

[Caller]

I got you. I totally got you. I got you. Totally got you. I'm not beating you up for what happened. You made a choice. And it is what it is. What it is. What I'm trying to tell you is there's only one path out now, and you can try. Why? I'm just telling you. Millions of Americans are drowning because they just tried to move stuff around instead of clenching their fists and heading right into the middle of it, swinging as hard as they could. And I'm only telling you this because I love you. There's just one way. There's just one way through. And dude, I'm like, I have a nine year old daughter. You're just my daughter just ten years from now. And I would tell you the same exact thing. You just have a stupid tax of 5,000 bucks. You have your upside down on a car that you don't even drive and that your brother is leeching off of you. I love him but he's leeching off of you. And your mom's like woohoo, I'll just kick in on the insurance like whatever. And nobody's everyone is losing here.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah it is.

[Caller]

And there's only one way through it and that's just to suck it up and go get 6,000 bucks and pay the stupid thing off.

[George Camel]

There's two options. Either your brother buys it from you and he takes over over and he deals with it.

[Caller]

Yeah, sell it to him.

[George Camel]

Or you come up with the difference that you're underwater on either through a personal loan or savings and you get rid of this debt and you can.

[Caller]

Punt it till after you graduate. I'm just telling you there's going to be a thing that happens between now and then. And you've already cracked the door to getting a credit card to solve your immediate problem.

[George Camel]

And three years of mom making minimum payments while the interest racks up and you continually go underwater. I don't like that plan either. So we need to have a come to Jesus family meeting and get this thing off your back. Just let's own it. It's not my car anymore. I don't need it anymore and I want to get rid of this debt. But don't try to scheme your way out of it through a different type of debt. It's as crazy as it sounds. Does having more money and less stress sound nice but feel impossible? Well, in my brand new book Breaking Free from Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it. You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out from credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps. So if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead. You can get Breaking Free from broke [e-mail] that's ramseysolutions.com store from the Ramsey Network. This is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel here with best friend, bestselling author, Dr. John DeLoney. And we're taking your calls at 888. 825 5225. Sarah is up next in Anaheim, California. Sarah, welcome to the show.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi. Thanks for having me.

[George Camel]

Absolutely. What's your question today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so kind of backstory. I'm 43. I have a 56 year old boyfriend. We've been together 20 years, lived together 18. He's financially irresponsible. He's 56, and he's got maybe 8 to $10,000 in retirement.

[Caller]

You just said that as though you just figured that out. That was incredible. Like, we've been together for more than half my life and I just had this discovery. How long has he been irresponsible?

[Dr. John Deloney]

The entire relationship. Like, we've fought, we've talked about money, we've argued about money, we've fought about money. Like he didn't even put money into his 401k at work until he finally caught my foot down and was like, no, you're, you're gonna, you. So.

[George Camel]

Well, this sounds fun.

[Caller]

Yeah. Can I ask you another question?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It gets worse.

[Caller]

Oh, okay. Excellent. You're gonna. I'll hand you the shovel back. You keep digging. Go ahead.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So I just found out the bombshell is his mom had taken out a reverse mortgage on her condo. Took about half a million dollars out because her husband was having really bad medical problems. She had to put him in hospice and everything. So she took about half a million out eight years ago. And I just found out she's got $40,000 left.

[George Camel]

What does that have to do with you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's looking at me and saying we're going to have to bail my mom out. And I'm looking at him like, you can't even afford to retire. What do you mean?

[George Camel]

Yeah, no. How entwined are your finances with his?

[Dr. John Deloney]

They're completely separate. We never, never combine. We don't even have shared bank accounts.

[George Camel]

Okay. How are you doing financially?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I wish it was better. I have about $45,000 in savings, about 8,000 in checking. I put money into a 401k at every single job.

[George Camel]

So do you have any debt?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm not, no. But I'm driving a 15 year old car that's got 220,000 miles on it. So probably going to need a new car in the next couple of weeks. Couple years.

[Caller]

Okay. Oh, go ahead, George.

[George Camel]

No, I'm just. I'm just kind of getting laid. Land. So you're completely debt free. Savings in the bank. You've been investing for a while, and it sounds like you're fed up with him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And you're. He's trying to drag you into his mess, and you're going, no, no, no, no. I'm trying to be fiscally responsible. And you're. You've. You've hitched your wag, your wagon knowingly to this guy.

[Caller]

Actually, y' all haven't hitched anything other.

[George Camel]

Than emotionally for 20 years.

[Caller]

Yeah, y' all just, like, played Peter Pan.

[George Camel]

Like, are you just venmoing for, like, rent? How does this work?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I got my check for rent. We split the rent 50. 50. He pays utilities, I pay groceries. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Does this sound like a romantic relationship?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, there's so many other problems with the relationship. Like, we. It's a sexless relationship. Like, we haven't had sex in, like, I don't know, nine years. Us, we opened up the relationship, like, eight years ago to try to fix that.

[Caller]

Yeah, that. That usually works whenever couples aren't working out together. Just like hooking up with a neighbor always works. That's good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That works great.

[Caller]

Okay, so. So here's the deal. Here's a question. Like, he's not on the phone to defend himself. His mother and his parents are having challenges. You're the only person on the call.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

How old are you again?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Again? 43.

[Caller]

43. Let's just pretend you have 50 years left to go. You're not even halfway done yet. You cannot do one single thing about anything that's come before this phone call.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

You're holding a pen and a blank piece of paper. You get to decide what story you write next. Next. End of discussion. Doesn't matter about him. He has shown you his cards. I won't marry you. I won't participate in life with you. I won't do any sort of un. Like, I won't live in any sort of reality at all. And there's probably a million reasons why. Partridges in a pear tree. We're not going to go through all that. The only thing that matters is you're holding a pen and a blank piece of paper. What do you write next?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, here's the deal.

[Caller]

It's going to be hard to break up. It's going to be hard to. You're going to have the sunk cost fallacy. Like, I've already given 20 years, and I might as well. Just have another 50 miserable years. So when I die, I've got 70 miserable. You can do that, and you can also stay in this thing. That's going to be hard. The only options you have is a hard choice. Choose your heart.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I mean, I honestly, like, not even a year ago, I was, like, pricing out what it would cost to, like.

[Caller]

Hold on, hold on. I don't care about a year ago. I care about right now. A year ago's past.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. I just. I just have so much guilt, which is why I haven't left, because I know if I leave, he's financially screwed.

[Caller]

He's a grown man who's made choices for 20 years. Years. For 50 years. Not 50. For about 40 years. He's made ch. He's made choices.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I mean. Yeah. I mean, I. I want out. I want to know. I had to come to Jesus talk with him six months ago, and I told him I'm not happy.

[Caller]

None of those talks matter.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Shock.

[Caller]

None of those talks matter. Yeah, they don't matter. You had those for years. Years and years and years and years. You had one when you decided to sleep with other people because you thought that would fix it. You had those when you were like, when are you gonna marry me? And he's like, oh, you know, and you've had those and had those and had those and had those. They don't matter. It doesn't. It doesn't work. Of course he was shocked by the way he's got a great setup.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

He's got a sugar mama that's gonna take care of him. He doesn't have to worry about anything. And by the way, he's. This family doesn't even have to worry about anything. You'll just fix it. You always have.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So what's the real reason you're calling today, Sarah? Did you want permission from us? Did you want us to acknowledge that this is crazy?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, kind of. And I'm just like. I'm overwhelmed. I'm like. I don't even know what to do.

[Caller]

Do you have any girlfriends in your community that you can just go sit down and just unload on? Just say, hey, I need you just to buckle up because I got a story for you. I don't know what you to do.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, okay.

[Caller]

You need to do that. I. I'm not going to be on the hook for telling you, you need to leave this guy. That's your choice. You're a grown woman.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I'm going to tell you, the situation is profoundly unhealthy for everybody involved and.

[George Camel]

It'S not your burden to bear. I know it feels like that people are going to be mad at you and say you were supposed to be there for me, but this isn't your mess.

[Caller]

Y' all have been roommates for years. And roommates move out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And roommates choose to stay. Just you get to choose. But I just want you to take 100% ownership. Not of all the things we should have said and didn't do. And what am I going to do next? And whatever you decide to write is going to be hard.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

You'Re going to have to choose guilt over resentment. And there's a lot of resentment that's built up over 20 years. Years of you carrying the load. And it might be time to switch over and try the guilt lever and go. I feel bad. This sucks. But it's better than letting this poison eat me from the inside out.

[Caller]

But I want you to sit down with a friend, maybe a local counselor, and just get all of this stuff out. Because I want you to go towards something. I want you to go to somebody who cares about you. A new job, new relationship, a new safe place to live. I want you to go towards something. Don't just run into the night screaming because you're going to end up right back in the same situation.

[George Camel]

Hang on line Sarah, I'm going to send you Dr. John's book, own your past, change your future to help walk you through this.

[Caller]

Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse. Over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th and early bird prices start at $749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets [e-mail] events.

[George Camel]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, you're wondering where your money's going. Your first step is getting on a budget and our team is hosting free budgeting trainings this month where you'll learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget. Using our app Every dollar plus, you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live. Q and A spots are limited, so go sign up for free at everydollar.com webinar Rosa is up next in Phoenix. What's going on, Rosa? How can we help?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[George Camel]

Sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So. So about two weeks ago, my husband lost his job.

[Caller]

That's so scary.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Communication issue with his employer, who's also the owner of the company. It's a very small company, and he's been working with him for over 15 years. And he got fired over text. Wow. I make decent money, but we don't have any savings. I have a 401k, but our expenses alone are about 5,000amonth. And it's just not enough to cover all of our expenses with just my salary. And I'm looking at getting a home equity loan. Not a line of credit, but a loan to hold us over and consolidate some debt until he can find some other employment.

[George Camel]

How much debt do you guys have anywhere close?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I have about 20,000 in credit cards. There's two car loans. One is about 18,000, and the other one's almost paid off. So there's maybe $1,000 left on that vehicle.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Any other debt?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Three 401k loans that come out of directly out of my payment check, and that's about $400 a month, and that's about $26,000.

[George Camel]

Okay. So this problem started long ago. Even with two incomes, you guys have been unable to keep up your lifestyle.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

So what's been going on beneath the surface? This job just revealed the house of cards that you guys have built. But it wasn't the issue.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No. Our relationship has been broken for probably 15 years. We bought this house in 2017. I was able to qualify for it under just my income at the time. We had five kids living in the house. And my father, whose husband passed away. We're down to just one child. Two of our kids don't even speak to us. But I don't want to lose my house.

[Caller]

I'm gonna ask. Please, please, please. Hey, Rosa, listen, you got. You got a ton going on. Okay, let's knock these out one thing at a time, okay? Because real quick, what anxiety does is it begins to go and then, and then, and then. And it spools on us, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Caller]

And you haven't slept in the last week, have you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not a lot.

[Caller]

I know. Please, please, please do not put your house on the auction block for a short term problem. Okay? I want to not promise you, but almost guarantee you something. Your husband has not told you the full truth about why he got fired.

[George Camel]

I've had to let text.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's been a communication issue between him and the owner. And I actually know the owner. We've known him for probably the whole time we've been married. 25.

[Caller]

Okay, hold on, hold on. You're. You're jumping right back into solutions. I'll. I'll back out. Cool. He got fired from that. There's one solution right now. He's got to get two jobs today at Walmart and at Home Depot, and then he's got to drive tomorrow morning. Morning. And he can apply for jobs later. Y' all don't have any money. This isn't the time for hacks. This isn't the time for debt consolidation. This isn't the time for putting your house on the block. Because one thing you've proven to yourself over the last 20 years is something always comes up, and the worst case scenario usually happens. So why in the world would you put your house on the block?

[George Camel]

Yeah. You understand? You. You take out this home equity loan. You now have a second mortgage, and your home is at risk.

[Caller]

If you miss a payment, they take your home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I. I make enough money that I could cover.

[George Camel]

You just told us you don't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Consolidation's gonna pay off all these credit cards.

[Caller]

No, don't do consolidation. You're just moving. You're just moving debt around. It's like putting Spanx on. It doesn't make you. If I put on a bunch of Spanx, it doesn't make me way less. Less. Right. It just makes a. A particular pair of pants fit better. It doesn't make.

[George Camel]

They market these products to people who are desperate. Like you, thinking this is going to be the thing that fixes it all.

[Caller]

That's right.

[George Camel]

Or it's going to be a band aid to get us to the next week, and you're going to be calling back a week from now saying we can't make the HELOC payment. They're. They're threatening us. They're going to take away the home. We can't make our debt payments. So the solution here is, number one, your income and then your expenses. You said you have 5,000 expenses. Right now we're in survival mode. So all we can cover is basic food, utilities, our housing and transportation to get us to our job. That's the only thing we're doing. Anything else is getting removed from the budget. And I can tell by the way you're talking, you guys have never sat down to make a budget to tell every single dollar where to go. So it starts tonight. We're gonna go. Here's how much Rosa makes. You're Gonna pause all investing. Are you doing any investing right now? I'm guessing you can't because you got three 401k loans out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm just doing the 3% that my company matches. I just lowered it.

[George Camel]

Lower it to zero to go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I started.

[George Camel]

Is it at zero?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Okay.

[George Camel]

You need every single dollar you can squeeze out of your income. Do you understand? So 3% matters. 1% matters. So how much will you be taking home after tax, after health care premiums? How much can you bring home every month as it stands today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let me look real quick here. 4,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, so now we have a solvable problem. Our expenses are 5,000. How do we get our expenses down to 4,000 or less this month and find out how much lower you can get those expenses and then go, how much more can we make? With husband working three side jobs this week.

[Caller]

Week.

[George Camel]

Doing whatever he can to bring an income, swallowing his pride. Doing the side gig, asking people, what can I do to serve you in exchange for money to cover the gap.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's not willing to do that.

[George Camel]

He's unwilling to work.

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's applied for unemployment. So that's what he's been working on. He says he's been applying for job and he's had a few interviews.

[George Camel]

Is he an able bodied man yet?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Pardon me?

[George Camel]

Is he an able bodied man?

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's got some health issues.

[George Camel]

He's 57 years old, but he can go do something. I don't understand why he can swallow his pride and take unemployment, but he can't swallow his pride and go do two side hustles.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right?

[George Camel]

I don't understand.

[Caller]

Have you sat down and said, I need you to swallow your pride on this one or don't even say that because he'll fight you on that. I don't have any pride. Can you say, hey, for three months? I know you're grinding, but we got to go make some money?

[Dr. John Deloney]

He's counting on this 320 unemployment.

[George Camel]

That's.

[Caller]

That's what I took it to his old boss and the moment he gets a job, they cut it off. Like I don't.

[George Camel]

How much are these cars worth?

[Dr. John Deloney]

1 is probably about 8, probably the 18,000. It's the 21 Chrysler and mine is the 2017 Toyota Camry. But there's, like I said, we only owe two more payments on that one, so that one will be gone.

[George Camel]

Well, what's the Camry worth?

[Dr. John Deloney]

We can tell you 8,000 the way.

[Caller]

It is and you owe one.

[George Camel]

So you could make 7,000 bucks right there and you could Sell the other car and be, you know, free and clear of it. With 7,000 bucks to get you a car, could you go down to a single car? Since homeboy is unemployed anyways.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't know that he'd be willing to do that either.

[George Camel]

Like I said, he doesn't have any choices.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So we don't hardly even talk.

[Caller]

Okay, here's the deal. We can't help you. Huh?

[George Camel]

You guys lit the house on fire. And he's saying, well, he doesn't want to go. He's warm and cozy.

[Caller]

Yeah, we can't help you if. I mean, if every option you're, you're, you're, you're. We're putting up against. He won't. He won't. He won't. Then at some point, you have to decide, do I want. Want to be safe or not? And you, if he is really as unhelpful and is. Won't speak to you and whatever as you say he is, you're in a situation that is unsafe. Get with some girlfriends in your. In your local community that are friends of yours and sit down and walk through the challenges here. You may need to see a local counselor. You got big challenges ahead of you, but please don't take out a HELOC on your house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sam.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Give us a call at 888-255-2225. So many of you out there are sharing the show with people you want to see win with money. Thank you for doing that. And we want to make it even easier. So this June, we've got a brand new Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube. This playlist is filled with classic Ramsey clips like, what are the baby steps, how to pay off debt with the debt snowball, how to build an emergency fund, and so much more. So instead of going, hey, I guess I'll send a random clip from the show. You can send the friend, the family member this playlist and go, hey, this is a taste of what Ramsey's all about. So here's how to share it. Click the link at the top of the show notes to Open the Ramsey101 playlist on YouTube and then you can text it DM it, send it in the group chat and just said, hey, really enjoyed this playlist. Think you guys might enjoy it as well. And if you're listening on radio, we've got the playlist featured at the top of our YouTube channel. Just search for Ramsey show on YouTube and you'll see it there. So who's the person you're going to share this with. Think about that person who's someone who could really use this information. It's one share and one step that could change everything for one person in your life. Juan is in Seattle, Washington. Up next. What's going on?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi, guys. Thank you for taking my call. It's actually a privilege and an honor to talk to you guys.

[George Camel]

Oh, you as well.

[Caller]

What's up, brother?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I got introduced to the Ramsey program about 10, 11 years ago and right away I got term life insurance because my bride and I, we have five kids. And I didn't realize that it was going to be up in 10 years because I thought I got it for terminal 20. It's coming up to end here soon. And I'm trying to do my due diligence and try to get new term in life, but I've been denied twice by two different plate, two different places. I do have a supplemental term with my work and I have a little one that I got through the NRA, but it's, it's nowhere near the 10, you know, the 10 times amount of money I bring in. And let me tell you, I still got four kids at home and God knows I don't want, you know, leave the burden of having to take care of me or you know what.

[Caller]

Why'd you get denied, brother?

[George Camel]

What's going on with your health?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, the last one, I finally got clarity at my, the biggest one is my BMI. I'm 6 foot 4, 330 pounds and I'm down almost 40 pounds. So.

[Caller]

Congratulations.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you. So that's the big one. You know, a little bit of high blood pressure. I'm right on the cusp of diabetes. My doctor put me on the diet, which is helping me lose the weight.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't know what else to do. It literally scares me.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That if something were to happen.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know.

[Caller]

Well, can I just tell you just, you're talking to just three dads right here. Me and you and George are all three dads. And all of us have had that night where we're laying bed like, dude, if something happens to me, Right. And so I hear it in your voice, if, if what you're telling me is right, that you're pre diabetic or right on the, on the line with metabolic challenges and you're already a big guy and you're obese and you're struggling with X, Y and Z. Can this be the moment that you say, I'm going to commit to being at my youngest kid's Wedding. Because all of what you just explained to me, I'm going to say this because I love you. Is a solvable problem.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

It is working with, continuing to work with your doctor. You know what? I'm going to hook you up, train well, supports my show. It's a workout and a personal trainer in an app. It's amazing. I use it. My manager use it, my wife uses it. Kelly, the producer of my show uses it. I'm going to hook you up with three months for free. But you got to promise me you use it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, I will.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I will.

[Caller]

And if you've never worked out before or if you're like me, you've been working out for 30 years, it doesn't matter. They'll. They'll up the game with you and it's a personal trainer that walks with you. Okay, but listen to me, okay. This is a solvable challenge. Is I. We've had calls on the show where someone's got brain cancer, somebody's got a heart defect or a heart transplant or whatever. That's not what I hear from you. Is that fair?

[George Camel]

So six months from now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely.

[George Camel]

You might be in a totally different man and reapply and get approved.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[George Camel]

And so that's the goal to aim for. And I, I think this is the fire you need. You've got a great why. And this is the wake up call is getting denied for life insurance going. My family still needs me. Yeah. Because the other option is be self insured. And it sounds like you're not there yet to where if something happened, you don't have enough assets and investments that could replace your income.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right. My bride and I, we're still working baby step two. We have, because of my bride, you know, she's the neck of the family. We have about one month's worth of emergency fund and we're working the baby steps slowly but surely.

[George Camel]

And how long have you been following plan?

[Dr. John Deloney]

We initially came close to being debt free back in the very beginning of 2020. Covid hit us hard and we, we fell back into debt.

[Caller]

And what does that mean? It hit you hard.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Work wise. I went from working 50, 50 plus hours a week to less than half. And, you know, we focused on, you know, the four walls and utilities and food.

[George Camel]

How much debt do you guys have left in baby step two?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I want to say about 40 or 50,000 total.

[Caller]

What do you make right now?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Last year I averaged about 38,000. My bride, 71.

[Caller]

What do you do? Making 38 grand a year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'M a soils tech. I essentially go out and test compaction levels of construction sites before they build new roads or new buildings. My. My regular wage is 20 bucks an hour. Every once in a while, I. I get the prevailing wage, you know, which is four or five times that.

[Caller]

Here's what I'm hearing. Can I. Can I tell you what I'm hearing? And we don't have a ton of time. And so I want to. I want to get right to the middle. Middle of it. You don't look in the mirror and respect you. And I don't want you taking another step that you don't respect the dad you are, the husband you are, the man you are. Fair.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's fair.

[Caller]

You're a dad who loves his kids. Don't you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

Okay. You're worth more than $38,000 a year, brother. And I know you feel good in your job and it feels secure in x, y, and z. You can make that work in a Starbucks. And so I want you to hit the street and find a job. I don't care what the job is, but I want you to find a job that's making more than 38 grand a year. And I'm not knocking people that. That's all they can do. But if you know how to test soil compact levels and work with contractors and deal with all that nightmare stuff and plus run your own soil, Small thing. Then you can do a bunch of jobs that will pay a double or triple or quadruple what you're making right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Caller]

But it's going to make you bust out of your comfort zone. Same as going to the gym. Same as getting on a diet plan and not skipping and changing diets every four weeks. And trying this. I'm going to try fasting. I'm going to try keto. I'm going to try vegetarian. I'm just going to be consistent for the first time in my life. And I'm also going to hook you up with three months free of better help. I want you to get in front of a counselor. Counselor. You can do it from your home computer so you don't have to go anywhere and lose an hour of work right now. And I want you to begin to talk about those demons that are inside your chest because everyone in your life loves you. The guy who's struggling with loving you is you right now. Fair.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're not wrong.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

You know what to do, man. The journey's gonna be hard.

[Caller]

But this is day one, brother. You in?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

I want you to say I'm in.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm in.

[George Camel]

For your health, for your finances, for your family, for you.

[Caller]

I want you to be. I want you to be 64 and down 100 pounds this time next year. Are you in?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, I can. I can sure as hell put. Put in the effort.

[Caller]

Okay? I want you. And not because it's a number. I don't care about the number on a scale. I care it because you're worth feeling good when you wake up and the more morning and you're worth not snoring all night and you're worth laughing and rolling around on the floor with your kids. I want that last kid of yours to have you walk him down the aisle. Or if it's your son as the last one, I want you hugging his guts out backstage before he walks down the aisle. This is how. This is how family trees change. When one person stares it down, looks in the mirror and says, enough is enough is enough. And the change starts with me. Day one starts today. Hang on the line, brother. We're gonna hook you up with some stuff, all right? And we'll walk with you. You call us anytime. We love you, man. Go get them.

[George Camel]

Hey, George, Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home? It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about. And all those decisions, decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com real estate. That's ramseysolutions.com realestate our scripture of the day. Psalm 1, verse 1. Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers. Mark Twain said, what's the difference between a taxidermist and a tax collector? The taxidermist takes only your skin.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Ooh.

[Caller]

Mark Twain burn.

[George Camel]

Burn sick, burn.

[Caller]

Mark Twain burn.

[George Camel]

Dude, he would have crushed it if he had Twitter. Can you imagine the amount of followers he would have had?

[Caller]

He probably is at the top right now.

[George Camel]

Still to this day.

[Caller]

He's been dead for a couple hundred years.

[George Camel]

Not even his real name. Pseudonym look it up. Google it. Yeah, Sherry's in San Diego. Up next. What's going on? Sherry, hi.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thanks for taking my call. So, quick background. We moved to California in 2019. We bought a house, moved into our dream neighborhood to raise our three little girls. We had sold our business in Las Vegas and sold our home to do this. Well, we opened a business out here. And Covid completely crushed. We lost the business out here. My husband decided to take an opportunity in Las Vegas and purchase the business out there. So in the last two years, he's been traveling back and forth to the business every week. And then I'm at home with the little kids by myself during the week, and he's home on the weekends. Essentially, we're at a point now where we have to decide on. Because we're kind of behind on everything. We've got credit card debt, which we never had before, financially strapped. I'm not making much money right now with my business. And so now we're at a point. Where do we sell our home out here, move back to Vegas for the business, essentially, and for our family to be together and the stability. But our rent will be way more in Vegas than it is here because our timing was right when we bought out here in California. So that's kind of. And we would pay off our debts with the equity that we have in our home if we sell our home. So trying to figure out what makes the most sense. Or do we just stay here because we have a low mortgage and he gets a job out here. He can still run the business over there if he puts the manager in place. And then I'm going to obviously get a side hustle.

[Caller]

Whoo.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There's more to it, trust me. But I know it's a lot.

[Caller]

Can I distill down what you said? And I want to make sure I heard you right. The options are get the family back together, get some peace in your life, clear all of your debts.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And have a little bit of higher monthly payment on your rent. Or keep the family divided up. Keep your husband flying back and forth. Because you all have convinced yourself there's only one option. It's in Vegas. There's no other jobs in San Diego. We're going back and forth for a low mortgage payment.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Caller]

In my head, this is as close to a no brainer as I've ever heard. It sounds like if I read between all of the lines, you had a picture of what your life was going to look like in this perfect house, in this perfect neighborhood, with your perfect Little girls and your perfect husband and your perfect new business. And you haven't fully let that. That thing go yet.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, you're totally right.

[Caller]

I. I'm gonna. I'm saying this. I'm. I'm not smiling, so I'm being serious, but it's gonna sound silly. I think you and your husband need to either write a letter together to the life y' all thought you were gonna live and read it to each other and have some sort of ceremony or funeral for what was. Or draw a picture. Picture. And put it in a fireplace. You have to sever ties with this dream, this picture you had. You've already had a picture of your three daughters married at Thanksgiving at a table in that house you're in right now, right?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. I mean, it's literally like. Of all, like. I don't know. We lived in Vegas for a long time, so coming here, it was like moving to Pleasantville. You know, the neighbors, great kids are on the block, the kids walk to school. It's just such a. It's such a great situation. But financially, it's just like. It's almost like living here. We have this really low mortgage and monthly expenses, but it's almost having an abusive relationship where, you know, we kept getting beat up, and she keeps bringing flowers back, you know, saying it's okay. So we're at the point where we're like, we listed the house for sale. We just got an offer. So we're looking at it, and we're like, oh, $460,000 is a lot of money, and we could pay off the debt that we do have. And then, yeah, we're paying a higher monthly mortgage or payment on a rent. But it's. It's that whole, like, paying that much in rent is what's really hanging us up.

[Caller]

I don't think that's what it is. I don't think that's what it is. Tell me I'm wrong. I don't think you want to move back to Vegas.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're right.

[Caller]

Okay, then you need to put that on the table. And your husband has some big fantasy dream about rebuilding what he had in Vegas, and he's still trying to fight. He's the boxer that got knocked out for the last time during COVID and he can't let it go. And so he's a. The 48 year old boxer who keeps taking profights.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

How much debt are you guys in total?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Total. With their house or without?

[George Camel]

Without the house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So let's just say we have a $40,000 car payment. He has a lease on his truck, which we never had debt before, by the way. This is all new. And then I have about 15,000 in credit cards and then $15,000 personal loan.

[George Camel]

And you're proud of your low mortgage because that's the saving grace in all of this. You told us you're financially strapped, silly.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Now that you say. It's just. It's so hard to wrap our minds around, like, oh, my God, no, None of this matters. My husband's having. Yeah, okay.

[Caller]

None of this matters. You don't want to live in Las Vegas again. I don't know what it was about your life back then that you didn't like. Maybe you didn't like how he was in Vegas. You didn't like, like the heat, you didn't like the dirt, you didn't like the community. Whatever it was, none of. It's all okay. But you have to have the courage in your marriage to say, I don't want to live in Las Vegas. Every time a couple backs themselves into an either or situation. Here's your homework assignment, because here's what happens. You have falsely trapped yourselves, and you're either about to sell a house in a community that you love because your husband won't look for a job in San Diego. Diego. Or you're about to move to a place that is going to make you miserable, and you're going to become somebody you don't want to be.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We both don't really want to move back, but we just kind of feel like. And he's willing to out here. He even said, like, I'll get a job. Da, da, da, da, da.

[George Camel]

But what does he make from this business?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's not enough.

[George Camel]

So what happened to this opportunity when you said he had an opportunity to buy this business?

[Dr. John Deloney]

He bought the business with a partner. And so he's taking a salary right now, but they're growing it. They have a loan on it. So before, you know, they have to pay off that loan before they can really bring in.

[George Camel]

How much is the loan on the business?

[Dr. John Deloney]

1.9.

[Caller]

What's the business?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's a gym.

[George Camel]

So he's stuck. What's he gonna do? Yeah, the partner can't buy him out of this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No.

[George Camel]

And he signed the dotted line with his personal name for that $1.9 million loan. For what salary? How much is he getting paid?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, right now, he's one of those people that he'd rather take less to pay the loan down quickly. So he's making he's taking home 80,000 before taxes.

[George Camel]

And how much do you make?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Last year I made 90 grand, but this year, I'm getting crushed.

[Caller]

What is. What's this business make per month?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, I'd have to really look into it, but I think he's got a. There's several locations. I think one of the. One of the locations makes like 250 after expenses. The other one makes 350 after expenses. A month and then. Yeah, a year.

[Caller]

A year.

[George Camel]

So we're never going to pay off $2 million of debt.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And is. Is his salary and his partner's salary rolled into that expense?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. His partner's not taking a salary.

[Caller]

So if they took all combined, what is that, $600,000? They could have the business paid off in about three years. Yeah, but they won.

[Dr. John Deloney]

The note was for six years. So he was like, if we come back to Vegas and we grow this thing, we could pay, you know, paid off.

[Caller]

You're not. But, you know, the UFC runs gyms in veg. Everyone runs gyms in Vegas.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I'm not saying it's bad. I mean, start your business, do your thing. I agree with. I mean, I'm all for starting businesses. I love it, I love it, I love it. But now you're on the hook for $1.9 million.

[George Camel]

Yeah. You bury the lead there. It's going to be hard to just be like, well, just. So get a job here. And then what?

[Caller]

Or maybe you say, hey, I'll move to Vegas for two years while we're try to clean this up. Pay this. Every penny is going to pay this. This note off. We're going to sell these gems, and then we're going to decide where we actually want to live. But, yeah, I. I mean, George, as far as I'm hearing, man, get. Keeping my family together is as high a priority as I can place. And it's. Yeah, God help me. It's more important than I got a good mortgage rate.

[George Camel]

Oh, my goodness. And I probably look at selling the car, doing an early buyout for this truck. I mean, you guys.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And next time you hear the word opportunity, just know that's translation for I'm about to do something real stupid. Talk me off the ledge.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, you guys, I was shocked to learn that 88% of you out there are sharing the Ramsey show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey 101 YouTube playlist a quick start collection of how to get started Walking the Ramsey Plan now this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So here's what's inside, what the baby steps are and why they actually work, how the debt snowball helps you pay attention off debt fast and how to build wealth and invest for the future and so much more. So here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube playlist. Copy it, text it, send it in a group chat. Just say hey, I thought this might help because one playlist shared at the right time could be the turning point. One share one playlist Playlist One step could change everything for that one person in your life. So click the link, share the Ramsey show and let's help someone out there start winning with money.