His Dad Took Out $70K in Parent PLUS Loans and Didn’t Tell Him

Summary

The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: His Dad Took Out $70K in Parent PLUS Loans and Didn’t Tell Him
Date: November 12, 2025
Hosts: Ken Coleman & Jade Warshaw (Ramsey Network)

Main Theme/Purpose

This episode tackles difficult and often emotional financial situations faced by callers—especially inherited or hidden debt, family financial help, and decisions about money management and career transitions. The central story is a caller whose father took out $70,000 in Parent PLUS student loans without his knowledge, leading to a broader discussion about family boundaries, debt repayment, and tough money decisions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Hidden Parent PLUS Loans Crisis

(00:41–08:41)

• Caller Bill (New Jersey) discovers his father took out $70k in Parent PLUS loans for his college education without informing him.
• He only learned about these debts when his uncle (the co-signer) reached out about overdue payments.
• Bill had believed most of his college was covered by grants and only budgeted for his own direct loans.
• The loans now carry a 7% interest rate and minimum payments don't make a dent.

Host Guidance:

• Jade: “This is so messed up. It's really messed up.” (05:36)
• Ask for a full financial picture: Bill also owes $4,500 (credit card), $3,000 (car loan), $9,000 (his own student loans).
• Bill feels mixed emotionally but wants to maintain a good relationship with his father despite the shock and frustration.
• Jade recommends:
  • Listing all debts from smallest to largest and using the debt snowball.
  • But urges Bill to consider negotiating—potentially only volunteering to pay off half the Parent PLUS loans since he had no knowledge of them.
  • “At the very least, I'd say I'm paying half of this because... you didn't do me the service of even telling me about it.” (08:11)
• Ken: “Well said. Amen. Pass the plates, Dave.” (08:41)

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2. Emotional & Relational Money Problems

(10:52–20:42):

• Jenny (Atlanta, GA):
  • Middle-aged, late start with retirement, $50,000 in total debt, husband hid extent of their debt.
  • Both working multiple jobs and in counseling after trauma.
• Hosts’ advice:
  • Jade: “Is walking the baby steps the most important thing you need to be worried about right now, or are there other fires that are more important that need to be put out?” (14:08)
  • Safe to keep $1,000/month in counseling (“You have to be a well person”), prioritize emotional/relational healing alongside financial fixes.
  • Ken: “Sometimes in an attempt to not focus on other things, we focus on the baby steps... when really your marriage is falling apart.”
  • Use detailed budgeting (EveryDollar app), set aside for counseling, and make extras toward debt a deliberate, non-negotiable line every month.
  • Jade: “The emotion that you feel when you know the money is there but you do something else—is it ‘I work really hard, I just deserve this’, or... fear?” (18:49)

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3. Career Transitions & Pursuing More Income

(24:08–31:51):

• John (Colorado):
  • State government job ($120k) vs private sector ($150-160k); enjoys colleagues, enjoys work but wonders if he should make the jump for faster wealth-building.
  • Hosts steer him through the emotional and practical side:
    • If the extra private sector salary helps him reach key life goals (e.g. building a mountain house) meaningfully faster, it’s worth considering.
    • Ken: “Would you regret not having gone for it?” (30:20)
    • Jade: Run the numbers so you get “emotionally attached” to the outcome—know what that salary jump actually accomplishes.

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4. Navigating Debt vs. Savings Fears for Families

(33:35–43:07):

• Sydney (Richmond, VA):
  • $30k in savings, $19k left on car loan, $9k student loan, with a new baby and nervousness about using savings to pay off debt.
• Jade & Ken’s Strategy:
  • If monthly budget covers all essentials, use most of the savings to pay off debt right now and keep $3,000 for emergencies. Remaining income goes to quickly rebuild the emergency fund.
  • Hosts guide Sydney from vague “cautiousness” to specifically identifying and then rationally challenging her financial fears.
    • Jade: “It was okay for you to feel scared... but now that we add it to the truth... it becomes irrational.” (39:10)
    • Ken: “I think you have more margin than you’re even reporting.” (40:18)
  • To mitigate anxiety, suggest paying off just the auto loan today and revisiting the full debt payoff later.

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5. Weighing High-Risk Career Opportunities Post-Layoff

(45:12–52:56):

• James (NJ):
  • Recently laid off, has 6 months severance, asked by his pastor to volunteer (full-time, unpaid) for a pre-revenue startup streaming company.
  • Hosts urge caution—don’t devote full-time hours with no pay or written commitment; treat it strictly as a hobby until (if) it’s funded.
  • Ken: “No, you're a volunteer... I want to treat my plight as though I don't have any severance at all.” (46:24)
  • Instead, “go get employed now,” especially in a hiring market in flux.
  • If interested in ministry/mission work, that should be a distinct, intentional decision, not wishful thinking based on “shiny objects.”

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6. Teaching Contentment & Money Habits to Kids

(55:13–64:57):

• Angela (Mississippi):
  • Concerned about her 6-year-old comparing herself to “the Joneses” at private school.
• Parental Strategy:
  • Jade: “Plant seeds”—contentment is grown over years, not taught in lectures.
  • Ken: Show, don’t tell. Example: For a few years, his family had “three gifts Christmas” and made each child donate one of their gifts to a child in need (Children’s Hospital). “That taught our kids as much as anything we ever told them.” (60:53)
  • Have kids use their own “commissions” (as opposed to allowance) to help others, letting them see and participate directly.

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7. Navigating Family Tragedy & Housing Decisions

(66:54–75:53):

• Chloe (Houston, TX):
  • In her 30s, mother of 6 siblings (all minors), just lost her mom and is now guardian.
  • Contemplating whether to keep her mother’s house (needs repairs, $65k mortgage) or rent elsewhere.
• Hosts’ Guidance:
  • If house is livable and mortgage is low, repairs may be manageable relative to current housing costs. But if it’s a “money pit” and energy is stretched thin, renting may be best.
  • Ken: “I don't think having a money pit of a house is a great play. I'd rent for right now and you and your partner come up with a good plan.”

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8. Sacrifices & Suffering for Long-term Wealth

(87:30–95:32):

• Dustin (Hudson Valley, NY):
  • Married, finished paying off $70k, has a baby and another on the way, living in a cramped one-bedroom while saving for a home in Indianapolis in two years.
  • Ken and Jade recommend “suffering a little” by staying put and banking as much as possible for a substantial down payment—“the days are long but the years are short.” (93:26)
  • Highlight: “Two little babies. These are going to be memories that you two talk about when the kids are long gone.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jade Warshaw, on hidden Parent PLUS loans:
  “This is so messed up. It’s really messed up.” (05:36)

• Ken Coleman, on job/career pivots:
  “Would you regret not having gone for it?” (30:20)

• Jade Warshaw, on debt snowballing:
  “List them smallest to largest. All your extra money after you’ve paid minimum payments, all the extra needs to go on that car. Knock it out fast...then you start tackling this $70,000 student loan chunk.” (08:00)

• Ken Coleman, practical job-hunting advice:
  “You are showing up on sites...driving up on construction sites; if you’ve got a trade skill, you've got to start working. If not today, tomorrow.” (114:47)

• Ken Coleman, on modeling contentment:
  “Show them how good they have it. Not tell them how good they have it.” (61:04)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:41–08:41: Caller Bill & the $70k hidden Parent PLUS loans
• 10:52–20:42: Jenny: Marriage, hidden debt, therapy, & budget priorities
• 24:08–31:51: John: Government job vs private sector
• 33:35–43:07: Sydney: Pay off debt or keep large cash cushion with new baby
• 45:12–52:56: James: Should I work for free at a startup during layoff?
• 55:13–64:57: Angela: Teaching kids contentment amid “keeping up”
• 66:54–75:53: Chloe: Taking in 6 siblings and what to do with mom’s house
• 87:30–95:32: Dustin: Small living to save for a future home purchase

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Episode Tone & Style

• Encouraging yet direct; hosts balance empathy for family trauma and grief—especially with Bill and Chloe—with actionable, concrete steps for each caller.
• Unafraid to call out when things are “messed up” or when tough love is warranted.
• Frequent reminders that emotional health, therapy, and relational healing sometimes matter more than money tactics.

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Conclusion

This episode demonstrates that financial advice is never just about numbers. Hidden debts, family obligations, and emotional dynamics often shape the money journeys for everyday people. Whether dealing with surprise Parent PLUS loans, working for free at a startup, or sacrificing comfort to build wealth, Ken and Jade emphasize honest conversations, clear priorities, and the power of resilient action.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Ken Coleman]

Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. Alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. We she's gonna help you save and spend the money. I'm gonna help you make more money. That's my role here on the Ramsey Show. Gotta remind people from time to time.

[Jade Warshaw]

I like that.

[Ken Coleman]

We'll help you win at work. Two ways to win with money. We gotta make sure we're controlling the outflow and we want to get more inflow, if you will. So there it is. That's how we tag team. We start off with Bill, who is joining us in New Jersey. Bill, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, guys. How are you doing today?

[Ken Coleman]

We're doing well. What's going on?

[Caller]

So, yeah, I'm calling because I'm in a bit of a situation here with some college loans that I have, some student loans that are. They're parent plus loans, though, so they're under my father's name and. But I'm the one paying them. They're about three different loans. They total to about 70k in total between the three. And they have about 7% interest rate at the moment. I've been paying about 450amonth on them, but I just did the calculations and with the interest rate, it doesn't look like I'm going to be paying them off anytime soon with that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Nope.

[Caller]

So I was just looking for some guidance there on what to. What to do. All right, so some other debts as well.

[Ken Coleman]

Obvious question. These are. These loans your dad took out were for your education. True or false?

[Caller]

True.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And what are you doing for a living?

[Caller]

At the moment? I'm a manager at a Jersey Mike's. I actually ended up dropping out during COVID They wanted me to pay full tuition for online classes, and I was not about that.

[Ken Coleman]

What were you in school to do.

[Caller]

Originally? I was a biochem major and I was planning on a premed track. But that first year, I really did not enjoy it. And I decided, all right, I'm not gonna want to do this the rest of my life. Happy? I got out then instead of going into more debt, first medical school and then, you know, I was kind of in like an in between area. And then we all got sent home and, you know, I Didn't end up taking anything.

[Ken Coleman]

So what do you. What are you making now at Jersey Mike's?

[Caller]

I make about 90k a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And that's a management position?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Do you have any other ideas for your future?

[Caller]

I would like to go into franchising and continue with the quick service.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So you found your spot.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's cool.

[Ken Coleman]

That's great.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, I love it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

I came back after over Covid, fell in love. We realized what I want to do.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. That checks that box. Now we can we bring Jade in here and we start going. Okay, let's knock this out. Let's get her the full picture. Beyond the 70,000 in over three student loans, what other debt do you have? Give us the full picture.

[Caller]

So I have about 4,500 on a credit card. I've been pretty aggressively or trying to aggressively paying off at the moment. I do also have about 3,000 left on a car loan.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I also have 9,000 of my own student loans as well in my name.

[Jade Warshaw]

What was the deal on the student loans? Did you know from the beginning that you were going to be on the hook for those parent plus loans even though it was just your dad's name on the note?

[Caller]

I did not know they existed.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, how did you find out?

[Caller]

Because my uncle is a co signer on them. And so I was paying the ones that were in my name and I was doing that all. Actually, I started paying them early before I even had to not want them gaining more interest. And you know, so it was your.

[Jade Warshaw]

Uncle and your dad. Your uncle and your dad took these out?

[Caller]

Yeah, so my dad took them out and my uncle had to co sign on those loans for them.

[Jade Warshaw]

How did you think education was being paid for when you were showing up for class? In your mind, how was it being paid for?

[Caller]

So I knew I have some loans, but when I was filling out the like FAFSA and doing that stuff with my dad, I was under the impression that I had like grants and that it was, you know, that I had gotten assistance from the school.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you thought the 9,000 a lot more. You thought the 9,000 was it and everything else was grants and, and help.

[Caller]

So the 9,000 is what's left. It was originally 20. Got paid down to nine so far.

[Jade Warshaw]

So how did it come to be that you're paying for loans that you didn't even know were being taken out? How did that happen? Did your uncle call you up? Dad called.

[Caller]

Yeah, I got an email from my uncle saying, you know, like, hey, why haven't you been paying your student loans? And I was very taken aback because I was like, I have been like, I started doing it early. I don't know what you're talking about. I showed them my loans as well. And then, you know, he pulled up what he had and he showed me, no, they're past due. Like, I don't know what your. Listen, this is. And then we figured it out, and then my father finally was like, oh, yeah, Like, I had to do that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, I'm not in the business of splitting up families or, you know, trying to cause drama between families. This is so. This is so messed up. It's really messed up.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a polite way of saying it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, it is. And I want to know. But it might not be as messed up if I hear your side of it. In your mind, are you like, this is my responsibility. I'm happy to pay it. It was my education. It makes sense to me, Jade. I'm cool. Or is this something that causes you a bit of resentment and anger and is it problematic for you emotionally?

[Caller]

Half and half. I'm actually not gonna let it get in there. In between my relationship with me and my father and any means, he's been a great dad. You know, nothing like that. I was definitely a little frustrated with him. Cause about two years ago, I was looking to move out, and I did end up moving out. But before I did, a similar situation happened with my brother as well, where he had student loans that he was not aware of that my father did also take out. I don't know if they were under his name or under my brother's name in that situation, but, you know, I just remember him being pretty upset not knowing about those.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So before I moved out, I went to my father and asked him. I was like, hey, do I have any other student loans that I'm not aware of that I should be paying right now before I move out? Because if I did know that I had this 70k, I probably would not have moved out when I did. I would have stayed home and tried to put more of my resources towards these to get them paid down.

[Jade Warshaw]

And how long after. How long after the fact that they were due did you find out about them? Because, you know, after six months, they become due upon graduation. So how long?

[Caller]

I think there was. There was some first, like. I forget what it's called, but they. They were, like, pushed back because of COVID And there was a lot of stuff there, but you didn't know all.

[Jade Warshaw]

That time all that time that you could have been paying them off interest free, you didn't know about them.

[Caller]

I did not know about.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let me tell you, I'm going to be, I'm going to be flat out honest with you. I love relationships. I love that you are honoring your parents. This is bothering me. Um, now if you tell. This is your life, so you can decide if you tell me, Jade, I'm just going to go ahead and pay it. Can you please move on with the advice? Fine. The advice would be for me, you need to take all the debts, credit cards, car, student loans, list them smallest to largest. Based on what you told me, we need to be tackling the car first. All your extra money after you've paid minimum payments, all the extra needs to go on that car. Knock it out fast. And then next would be the credit cards, next would be the student loan. And then you start tackling this $70,000 student loan chunks. But if it were me, I'd be having a serious conversation. And at the very least, I'd say I'm paying half of this because I didn't know about it and I had an opportunity to take care of it when there was no interest and you didn't do me the service of even telling me about it. So you're on. You're on the hook for half and it's not in your name.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. Well said. Amen. Pass the plates, Dave. We got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive for, but can't work, so it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan, whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

[Ken Coleman]

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've trusted Jeff, Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so has my family.

[Ken Coleman]

So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Dave Ramsey]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Ken Coleman]

Jenny is up next in Atlanta, Georgia. Jenny, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

Sorry, I'm a little nervous.

[Ken Coleman]

You're doing great. We're going to take good care of you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank you.

[Caller]

My husband and I are getting a late start. We don't have any retirement. We don't have a house. I'm 45. He's 51. We have debt. We want to know, like, what we can do to catch up. He's not as gung ho as I am, but he's getting there. He kind of kept the debt from me. And we're trying to live correct right now in every area possible. We have counseling we're paying for because of trauma we've been through. I'm working three jobs. He's working, too. So it's just kind of a lot right now.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so it sounds like we're getting very busy. Sounds like you guys are trying to make more money and come after this, correct?

[Caller]

Yes. We've been trying for the last few months. He kind of was doing it on his own. And when I kind of found out more about it, he like, we got kind of more aggressive about it.

[Ken Coleman]

What was the debt? What was the debt that he kept from you?

[Caller]

We have about like 30,000 debt plus the car. So 50. And I knew we had like a little bit, but I never knew how much. He just always told me he was taking care of it and.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, but what I'm asking what was the debt? Obviously the car you probably knew about, but what was the other debt that you didn't know anything about?

[Caller]

We have a debt consolidation loan and there was some credit cards. My insurance isn't good. So we've had some medical debts. We have IRS that we have to pay.

[Ken Coleman]

So it wasn't, I'm just trying to get a read on this. It wasn't what we Call financial infidelity, where he was hiding all kinds of expenditures. You just weren't paying attention, and you guys kind of got behind the eight ball, and then he tried to consolidate. I'm just trying to get an understanding of when you say I didn't know about it. Where are you guys emotionally on this deal? Where does it stand?

[Caller]

Yeah, it wasn't like he was out spending stuff, per se, but, like, a lot of restaurants and stores and nothing, like, major, but things like that. And I just felt like I was supposed to be the submissive wife and not really involved in the money, and I had, like, the wrong mindset. And now that I do, we're trying to do it right, but it's really hard to break the habits.

[Ken Coleman]

Got it.

[Caller]

You know, to not go to restaurants and things like that.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And so one other question here, because Jade's gonna jump in, but I'm just kind of gathering some facts.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

So you guys have tried. He's tried on his own. Now he makes you aware of it. Now you're going. Okay, gosh, we don't like the way this feels. We're going after this. But you started the call by saying, I'm ready to go all in. I'm calling the Ramsey show today. He's sort of kind of not there. What, is he not on board? I. I just. That'll help us. Where? Is he not on board with where you are?

[Caller]

I mean, he is mostly, but, like, I'm trying to live for the Lord. I mean, we're both trying to live for the Lord in every way possible, and just money's kind of not his focus right now. He's trying to get, like, healed in other ways and.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it. Is this a priority right now? Let me. You're. You're kind of talking a little bit in riddles.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I think it's because you're. You're trying to protect, like, delicate information, it seems like. But I want to ask you, is money the most important thing you need to be, like, is walking the baby steps the most important thing you need to be worried about right now, or are there other fires that are more important that need to be put out?

[Caller]

I mean, I guess I kind of want to do both. We're trying to get our money right, but we're trying to get everything else right in our life at the same time. And, like, I know counseling is a huge priority for us that I don't want to give up.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so how much are we spending on that amor month.

[Caller]

Like $1000 for me and my husband and my daughter.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good, great.

[Ken Coleman]

But that gives us something to work with. So we've got $1,000 a month, Jade, that we want to protect at all costs.

[Jade Warshaw]

Keep it on there. Keep it on there.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

I asked that question because money is important. Like Ken, you already know. It touches everything, Jenny. And you can see this. It touches your relationships, your job, your spirituality, all of it. Right. It's all encompassing. That being said, sometimes in an attempt to not focus on other things, we focus on the baby steps, being intense about that. This is the thing I'm going to focus on when really your marriage is falling apart. Right. And so what I don't want you to do is focus on the wrong thing. If what you're telling me is, Jade, we want to do it. We just. I just simply want to know, is it okay for me to keep a thousand dollars aside for counseling? Yeah. The answer is yes. You have to be a well person. That's like me telling you that walking the baby steps is not an excuse to eat ramen noodles like you need to healthy. You need to do this the right way. So I don't know why you had.

[Ken Coleman]

To single out ramen noodles, but we'll talk about that later.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sodium alone, Ken?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Let's walk through the numbers.

[Jade Warshaw]

A thousand dollars on counseling. I'm fine with that. Tell me what you guys bring in a month and then we can talk about what's going to feel realistic for you in this season when you're so heavily getting the mental help that you guys all need.

[Caller]

Thank you. We bring in about 7500amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, 7500amonth. How much of that is rent?

[Caller]

1900.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, great. Okay. So biggest expenses, 1900 on rent, thousand dollars on counseling, any daycare or anything like that. I need to know about like high dollars.

[Caller]

Yeah, my daughter's tuition is $300. I'm on a medicine that's $550, but I donate plasma, so I mainly pay for that out of that money.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So that's kind of a wash on the, on the, on the 550. Okay. So I, and I'm going, okay, I'm seeing, I'm seeing $3200 that's going away and must haves what's happening to the other 37.

[Caller]

Paying off debt, groceries, you know, just different bills like that. I feel like.

[Jade Warshaw]

And when you put all that in your budget, how much, how much are you putting extra on the debt? Not minimum payments, but above and beyond. A minimum payment. How much are you putting extra?

[Caller]

I mean, we're trying to, but we don't have like a set number. It's just kind of like whatever we have left over, we do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so that's what we'll fix. That's what we'll fix today. Because if you guys are on fixed, you know, you get basically paid the same amount every two weeks or every month, whatever, what have you, then this should be like clockwork. So what I need is for you guys to get on an every dollar budget. And if you don't have one, do you have one?

[Caller]

Yeah, I do have every dollar.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So when you open up every dollar, it should be really cut and dry for you, Jenny, to be able to see. Okay, we make 7500. 1900 goes to run a thousand to counseling, 300 school because of my plasma. We only pay $100 for the medication. Right. All of that's in the budget. And then it's going to show you after all the things that must be done. Gas, groceries, insurance. There's going to be a number up there in your case. It should be in the green of extra money that is now. Okay, what do we want to do with this money? And here's the thing, Jenny, the ch. We can put this extra money towards doordash. We can put this extra money towards a vacation that we want to go on. We can put this extra money towards a slush fund that just gets eaten away with by going to the gas station and gets eaten away with by running to Sonic. Right. Or we can say at the end of every month, we have thirteen hundred dollars and that is going on the smallest debt every month, no matter what, like clockwork. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's. I think that's what you were talking to Ken about earlier, about the kind of we just need to start doing it part. Right.

[Caller]

And that's what I'm trying to do. It's just, you know, getting there, I guess, is hard.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you tell me, tell me, tell me the emotional. The emotion that you feel when you know the money is there but you do something else. Is it. I work really hard. I just deserve this. Is it. I'm just so tired. Is it. I'm frustrated. Tell me what you're feeling that's causing you not to do the thing.

[Caller]

I guess frustrated. I know restaurants is really like our weakness. And like, we say we're not going to go, and then we go and just, you know, changing and living that new lifestyle is pretty Hard. And I think it's getting to that point.

[Jade Warshaw]

I want to know. I think it is just listening to you. I think you're scared. I think you're afraid. I think you've seen life one way and the idea of it looking different scares you.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I agree with that. And I also would say that now hearing what we know, I think it's hard enough going through therapy trying to change our life, deal with the trauma, whatever hurt is attached to all this. Can we reset our family? And that on its own is exhausting.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And I think it's hard to go, come on, babe, you need to join me on this debt free journey too.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're right, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

So I do think it is fear of the, the confrontation and how exhausting it is. But I do think that I would take this to the therapist and go, hey, did a phone call. We're trying to do this money thing. Can you coach us in this therapy about how important it is that we get on the same page there? I would take it to the professional help. Love that you're spending $1,000 a month, but you guys have got to lean in on every issue. Take, take that and use that thousand dollars and it's going to benefit.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

Attorney advertising Guardian Litigation Group LLP not available in Minnesota and Oregon. Results vary and no specific outcome is given. Guaranteed debt settlement may negatively affect credit and not all creditors will negotiate or settle. Savings vary and may be taxable. Please review our website terms for more information. All right, folks, it's the most wonderful time of the year. Can you believe that? Talking about it now. Feels like it's getting earlier now.

[Jade Warshaw]

It is. I put up my tree. Did you? Oh, yeah, trees.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah, trees. And by the way, the weekend after Halloween.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Mrs. Coleman said head on up to the attic area.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. That's the job.

[Ken Coleman]

By the way, if you see me and I look a little stiff today on camera, it's because pulled a muscle on the right upper side of the old back trying to yank it out of the attic. Eva Christmas tree box. And I'm thinking to myself, I have a strong young man who's 17 years of age. Why didn't I wait for him?

[Jade Warshaw]

This is your plight in life, Ken. He'll have his time.

[Ken Coleman]

I know he'll have his time. I just wanted to get it over with and you learn a lesson. But the Ramsey Christmas deals are here. We don't create the fury. We just go along with it. And boy, oh, boy, are these good deals. These prices won't last. You've got $13 best selling hardcovers, $12 questions for human decks, $7.99 audiobooks and ebooks, $20 assessments. Hello. The old get clear assessments. And I would love for y' all to get the get clear career assessment. It'll help you and my kids need.

[Jade Warshaw]

New shoes, especially in the. But in the new year to know where you're, where you want to go with your life.

[Ken Coleman]

And yeah, that's a far more redeeming reason. I was just, just blatantly saying kids need new shoes. Yeah, I got kids in college.

[Jade Warshaw]

Kid needs back care.

[Ken Coleman]

I got back. Yeah, I'm gonna need to go see the chiropractor. But hey, you can get all the great [e-mail] store ramseysolutions.com store or. Or if you're on YouTube or podcast, you can click on the link in the show notes. John is up in Colorado. John, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, very glad I got you today, ken. And you, Ms. Warshaw.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank you.

[Caller]

But it's a career question that I had.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I currently work for the state of Colorado. It's relatively safe job, as you can imagine, with the government. But we've seen lately that that may not be the case. But anyway, it's a relatively safe job. I absolutely love what I do. It gives me the ability to do some other side gigs and authorship of some books I write. So I have pretty good life, a good career. I love what I do. But there's always that looming question of should I go into the private sector again and possibly make quite a significant amount more. So I guess it's a question of do I continue to sacrifice enjoyment and safety over trying to put myself better ahead more financially? That's kind of what the gist of my question is.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, appreciate that. Let's break this down a little bit more because I don't think you've got the proper context for your choice. But let's see, I. I could be wrong.

[Caller]

Good.

[Ken Coleman]

So what do you make in the government job there in Colorado? Is it, by the way, is it a federal government job or a Colorado state?

[Caller]

State.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, state job.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you make?

[Caller]

Yep, 120.

[Ken Coleman]

And what do you. What would you say you do? I don't care so much about your title. What do you do?

[Caller]

Oh, it's okay.

Yeah, no, I'm a. I'm a land surveyor, so I work for the Department of Transportation and I, you know, do land surveying for new construction, roads, or improvement.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you love most about that work or what do you enjoy most about it?

[Caller]

The people I work with. It's considered, you know, a very good land surveying job.

I'm.

I'm doing land survey work. I'm not doing.

[Ken Coleman]

I get it. You're going off. I want you to answer me Very literally, I'm going somewhere to answer your question. So I asked you, what do you enjoy most about the work? And you said the people. That's a perfectly fine answer. Anything else that meets the enjoy description about the work itself? Don't give me it, say going outside. Okay, outside. What else?

[Caller]

The projects are pretty cool.

Help.

Help the public. It feels like I'm truly a public servant.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

Good answers. All right, so you mentioned that you believe, which leads me to believe you've done some research, that if you were to go do something else in the private sector, you could make a good bit more money. How much more money? And would you be in the same land surveying in the same industry? If we use that word, yes. How much more money?

[Caller]

I've done a lot of research and I've done research and I have job offers to prove that I could probably make 30 to $40,000 more a year. And yes, the job will be comparable, but a lot more stress involved, a lot more hours, and, you know, all the typical private sector stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, see, I'm a guy who's worked in both, so full disclosure. When I was a young guy in my early 20s, I worked for the governor of Virginia. So I lasted 12 months. Jade, I could not handle the pace of government work. Not too slow. Yeah, absolutely. The way the decisions are made, it is a lot more low key, is what I'm saying, hearing from you, John. But the trade off is you're not getting paid what you should be and could be making. So the next question is, is when you come to us and you say, should I change my job for more money? The question is, what would we do with more money? So let's say you make 150, what would you do with that additional money? Where would that go in your life? Is that paying off debt? Is that investing more? Is that enjoying life more? What's the rest of the story?

[Caller]

It'd be investing more and enjoying life. I'm completely debt free. I own my own home. I have no debt, say like 25% of my check as it is. But I do have dreams of, you know, building a home in the mountains and I'm trying to cash flow that.

[Ken Coleman]

And, well, I'm going to tell you right now, ding, ding, ding, there's the answer. I would absolutely go private sector and deal with maybe a little bit more stress. I'm not sure that we can guarantee that and deal with a little bit more hours in order to fast forward or guarantee. Based on the narrative you've given me, the private sector allows you to do that faster and with more certainty. True or false.

[Caller]

It does, it does.

[Ken Coleman]

Done deal. Jade, we always answer, what would we do? We've heard my answer. I would absolutely go private sector and I would invest more and I would see if I could climb the ladder even higher than what you've written, research. What would you do in his situation?

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, I'm gonna go part emotional, part tactical for me. After knowing what the answer is, which is, yeah, we're going private sector, I would then run out the numbers so that I can get emotionally attached to it, so that I can see, hey, if I'm earning $40,000 a year, that means I'm gonna get to my dream of my cabin or house in the mountains five years faster, right?

[Ken Coleman]

40,000 more, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, 40,000 more. I want to see that math. I want to know those numbers. I want to know that timeline so I can create a tie with that. If I don't do this, I'm not going to have the house until 2040. If I do have the house, I'm going to have it in 2035. Right. Like, knowing that allows you to get excited about it, allows you to create milestones, allows you to do all the things that are going to keep your Excitement when the hours feel long, when you're wondering if you never should have made this decision. Right. So that's.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what I would do. I would really make this so crystal clear. Understanding what I'm trading and what I'm getting in return for my trade.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I think that's so beautiful, John. I think that's homework assignment.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I think that's a great exercise. I'll give you the last piece on this. There's been several books, lots of research done, on patients who are in hospice care and how they share their regrets with their loved ones, with their caretakers. There's multiple pieces of work on this that you all can go kick the tires on. But one of the constants, one of the consistent regrets that we hear from those that know that their time is nigh and they're going to die soon is I regret that I didn't live the life that I truly wanted to live. And, John, you gave us a pretty clear vision for how you'd like things to go in the future. And I think that beyond Jade's exercise, I think I love her. I love that prompt she gave you. But I would add to that, if I don't do this, will I be on my deathbed regretting that I never went for it? Because the safe government job is always going to be there. But I kept hearing safety, safety, safety. And I would challenge that to say, the way we teach you to manage your money, which is, is we save up for it. We make solid, strong investments that are diversified, that have a track record. We don't buy something we don't have money for. All of those things are safe, but they ultimately lead to a life of adventure. And I think that's what you're craving. So, my friend, we have spoken on the matter. What will you do, John?

[Jade Warshaw]

I know what he's doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Richmond, Virginia. Sydney joins us there. Sydney, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, how are y' all doing?

[Ken Coleman]

Great. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing good, thank you. So my husband and I are trying to figure out how to best handle our debt. So we own car outright, but he still has an auto loan, and he also has some student loans, but we also have a seven month old. And so we are trying to be cautious about how aggressively we tackle our debt. We do have a mortgage, of course, but we have $30,000 in savings. And we're just trying to figure out how best to tackle our debt and efficiently tackle it as well.

[Ken Coleman]

So tell me what the car loan is. Is.

[Caller]

So we have $18,955.81 remaining on that.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, and what is that car worth? Do you know? If you sold it? Private sale.

[Caller]

I would maybe say around 30,000, maybe.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, just wanting to know. And then student loan debt, what is the total?

[Caller]

The remaining that is $8,952.85.

[Ken Coleman]

Look at you. I love that you're giving us to the cent, by the way. You are on this, Sydney. So that's the totality of debt. We're not counting the house. So that's it?

[Caller]

Yes, that's it.

[Ken Coleman]

And you got 30 grand in the bank? Yes, savings. And how long have you been listening to the Ramsey show or paying attention to what we teach here at Ramsey Solutions?

[Caller]

Not as long as my husband. My husband is a big fan of y'. All. He has been listening for a lot longer than me. But is he there with you now? He is not. He is at work. He's a sheriff's deputy. And so he's tied up at work.

[Ken Coleman]

Did he know? Okay, so he put you up to call on us?

[Caller]

He said it would be cool if I did.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, here's what's funny about this, because. Because if he's been following us and he's big fans, he knows what we're going to say about that $30,000 in savings, doesn't he?

[Caller]

I think he does. I told him that I am a little bit scared.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you. You opened with that. You said you were feeling cautious, interested in knowing what that meant. And then as, as the information unraveled. Now I know exactly what it means.

[Ken Coleman]

She's freaking out over us. Telling her to take $29,000. Yeah, or actually, no, we.

[Jade Warshaw]

27.

[Ken Coleman]

Actually, we get to leave some in there. Yeah. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why? Let. Let me paint you a picture. Let me just paint you a picture. You're completely debt free. You have not one debt in the world. No one can come after you. No one can take anything from you. You got $3,000 sitting in the bank. All of your income, when you get paid in November will go to you. No more payments to a car, no more payments to a student loan. Then you can take all that money that you were paying for a car payment, all that money that you're paying for student loans, and you could just drop it over in savings. Before you know it, you'll have 5,000. Before you know it, you'll have 10,000. And you don't owe anybody anything. And you've got a one year old at home and you've got, got four months of savings and you've got no debt. How awesome does that feel?

[Caller]

It sounds amazing. And because, I mean, it is so true. We are a slave to our, to a slave to our debt. And I just, my only concern and fear is, you know, heaven forbid something happened to one of our vehicles, something happened to, you know, the H VAC or whatever big ticket item.

[Jade Warshaw]

You want to know what I love that you're doing? Here's what I love about what you're doing. You are putting detail to your fears, okay, because you said you were cautious, which really was amounting to a fear that you were facing about this. And there's really two ways to have fear about this. One is an irrational feel fear, and the other is rational. Usually the irrational ones are very vague. It's like, oh, if we do this, it's going to ruin everything. Well, what do you mean by that? But you got details. And you said, well, here's the thing saying, jade, what if our car goes out? Okay, that is totally rational. So let's fix it now. We can look at it and go, okay, well, let's, let's put some truth to this. The truth is you make a monthly income, don't you?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much do you guys make every month combined?

[Caller]

It's about 6, $6,400 a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and how much of that are you putting towards your debt payments? Every single month, plus extra because you're trying to pay.

[Ken Coleman]

What savings account you guys are involving?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I'm getting to that. How much Are you putting, how much are you putting aside?

[Caller]

So his income pays for all of the bills? All of my income just goes into savings. So I make about $1,400 a month because I went part time since we had our son.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you've got the 1400 and then you've got the 3000. You've got the 3000 that's already there. So have you ever had a car, something happen with your car that costs more than 4400 to fix?

[Caller]

Not yet, I hope I don't.

[Jade Warshaw]

Will you go and Google something that you think will cost $4,400 to fix? Because I don't think it's there.

[Caller]

Yeah, I don't think so either.

[Jade Warshaw]

So do you see what I did there? All I did was I took a fear that's okay for you to have totally normal. And I just ran it through a process of saying, first off, is it true? Is it rational? We decided it is. That's fine. And then we said, is there something that's more true that we can replace it with so that we can actually go ahead and do the thing that's going to set us free? Do you see what I did there?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

There is not something that you cannot cash flow in the next month. Do you see what I'm saying? And then as you go, you're going to keep saving like Ken said.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, what's the car payment?

[Caller]

It's $497 a month.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, let's round, let's round that up to 500 bucks. What's the student loan payment like?

[Caller]

180.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so let's round that up. I'm round that up. 700 bucks on top of your 1400. Now all of a sudden we've got 2,100amonth. We're putting straight to savings to rebuild the emergency fund that you did out of order, plus your debt free, plus 3,000 that's there, plus the 3,000. So we're at 5,100 within 30 days of being debt free. 5,100 in savings.

[Jade Warshaw]

So what else could happen in 30 days that the sky would fall? I can't think of anything that insurance wouldn't pay for. Do you see what I'm saying? So now, now we see it was okay. It was okay for you to feel scared. It was okay. But now we go, hey, that. Now that we add it to the truth of what's really going on now, it becomes irrational. Right. It would be silly for you not to pay off this debt.

[Ken Coleman]

And I think you guys have More margin than you're even reporting to us because we're not digging. And so how quickly could you guys get to $10,000 in savings after paying all of this off in one fell? Far so flu. That's. That's another fun exercise. How quickly can I get to 10,000 so that your fear gland, you know, stops being so, you know, we just like, oh, it relaxes. So I, you know, that's what we're going to tell you to do. It's what we tell everybody to do.

[Caller]

Pay it off.

[Jade Warshaw]

Pay it off. And what? You want to know what I'm giving.

[Ken Coleman]

You permission to do?

[Jade Warshaw]

Pay it off. And in two months, if it was the worst thing you ever did, call me back and tell me about myself. Call me back and say, hey, Jade said I could come on the radio and cuss her out for the terrible advice she gave me. You won't do it, because you're gonna be like, this is the best thing ever. I'm debt free, and I've got three to six months of expenses. And I'm so glad that Jaden Ken talked me into doing the next best step with my money instead of me letting fear hold me back. That's what's gonna happen.

[Caller]

It sounds good.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, sounds good, but it doesn't feel good. And that's your challenge. And I'm gonna tell you right now, I think you're on the fence. I think you're on the fence as to whether or not you're gonna do this.

[Jade Warshaw]

She's gonna go home and she's gonna mull it over, and I expect you to. All right. I think you would be kind of crazy to just. Two people on the radio told me to do something.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm doing it.

[Jade Warshaw]

No. Go. Go be. I want you to be very thoughtful about what we told you. I want you to think about it, and if you give it fair thought, I promise you, you will see that we're right. You'll see that we're right.

[Caller]

My husband uses the. The app, the Every Dollar app, and he has showed me numerous times what our. What our leftover money would be if we didn't have these debts. And is. The fears are louder than the yes positives of it. But at the same time, like you said, I need to be realistic about if, well, fear did happen.

[Jade Warshaw]

Fear and caution are two different things, Fe. Caution are two different things. Fear is what's going to stop you.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's. I don't know what's. It's a. It's a Perception of the future, that's negative. That's what fear is. It's not based on today. It's based on what you think is going to happen in the future.

[Caller]

Right, Right.

[Ken Coleman]

Quick question. What's the amount that you would let go of today to re. To. To get rid of debt? Of the 30,000, how much would you go, oh, I'll let go of this and I'll feel fine. I'm just curious.

[Jade Warshaw]

Serious.

[Caller]

I would pay off the auto loan.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's do that today and then sleep on the rest of the idea. How about that?

[Jade Warshaw]

I like that.

[Ken Coleman]

How about that?

[Jade Warshaw]

I like that. That's fair. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Do 18. Do 18. And then take Jade up on her offer.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

You didn't know I was going to do that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I like that, Ken. I'm with it.

[Ken Coleman]

I like it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's try baby step.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman. So excited that you're with us today. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. New Jersey is where we're going to go and James is hanging out there. James, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, Ken and Jade. Good to hear from you both.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

Thanks for taking my call. So I was just laid off from my corporate job about three weeks ago. And the good news is I have A decent severance package where I'll be okay for at least the next six months, give or take, not too much. And I have a fully funded emergency fund. After hearing about that, my pastor actually asked me to help him with a new startup basically that he's launching. It's a for profit business, but. But the streaming service. It's a streaming service, it's all pre revenue. Still waiting to finalize details on investors. So right now they have no money to pay employees basically and has a pretty promising future that I can't really talk too much more about. But the team that is currently employed with the service all have other jobs and other forms of income. I would basically be the only one that would be working full time without any alternative income other than the severance package. So I guess my question is, if I were to pursue this, I'm not as concerned about my finances because it seems to be okay at least for the next six months. But if I'm devoting 40 hours a week to the startup with literally no contract, no employment agreement, no guarantee about eventually being compensated, it's all based on like a very loose verbal agreement. And even that was kind of unclear.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I'm not going to listen any further because I'm. It's like food's threatening to come up. You know, I hear this and I'm getting, I'm getting more and more sick to my stomach hearing this idea.

[Jade Warshaw]

There is nothing, there is nothing good about this.

[Ken Coleman]

No, you're volunteer, which by the way, you can volunteer five hours a week, whatever extra time you have to say, hey, in good faith, I'll do what I can when I can, and let's hope this thing gets funded and it turns into something. But you're protecting yourself. The other thing is, and again, we always answer questions. What would we do if we were in your shoes? Jade will weigh in here on her take, but if I'm you, I'm thrilled. I have a six month severance, but I don't want to touch that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't want to live off that. Now that's just me. So I'm going. All right. I was laid off from a corporation, so I've got a lot of skill and a lot of experience. True or false?

[Caller]

Yeah. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And nothing to be ashamed of. This is not a stain on you. The economy is really weird right now is the best way I can describe it. It's not hot, it's not awful. But jobs and corporations, I mean, we're seeing a lot of layoffs, we're Seeing a very slow hiring market. So I'm not looking at today's wins and going, man, I feel great about six months. I'm going, I want to treat my plight as though I don't have any severance at all. And I got just enough money in the bank to make it a month, Jade. So maybe I'm mindset is I got 30 days so that I'm not. I don't want to be running around like Chicken Little. The sky is falling. The sky is falling. But I would be very urgent and I would not give these people any time that would take away from your ability. Everybody else has got a 40 hour week job. Ding, ding, ding. So do you need one? And I would be. My number one focus is getting back into the job market and getting employed. And we'll see how this thing with my good pastor. And I'm going to say something else just because. And I'm going to give it a disclaimer and I want Jade to come in and give her take. My disclaimer is, I don't know anything about your pastor and I don't know anything about this business. But there was enough in that to make me go. There ain't nothing about what you told me that makes me think this is anywhere remotely close to a sure thing. And so for that reason, I'm definitely out. And I would just help out and see if it turns into something. Sorry for being a little cynical, Jade, but that's where I see it.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, you turn this into Shark Tank when you said, for that reason, I'm out and I'm gonna take a page from that notebook and Mr. Wonderful would say, there's some ideas. You just need to take them out back and shoot him. Yep, this is one of them. And for that reason, I'm out.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And what are your thoughts on his urgency? Oh, you know, I feel like he's a little too relaxed.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're a little relaxed. But I, I think that I, I'm sensing that you're relaxed because, you know, you can go out and get another job today or tomorrow. Like, you're a smart guy. You were good at what you did. I don't think you're concerned with that. My bigger question is, is that the type of work you want to do anymore and is that why you are looking towards something like this as kind of a lifeline of, you know, I don't know if I want to do the same kind of work anymore. This kind of seems cool. My question is, is it time for a career Shift. Is that what this is really about? That would be my question on a deeper level again.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, James, I mean it sounds to me like you got, I don't know, you've gotten swayed by your pastor, who you look up to, and he's pretty excited about this. That's what I think has happened. And it's kind of a shiny object that's distracted you, correct?

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean to be fair, like he didn't say we're never going to pay you. He just literally has been juggling this whole project.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, but there's no business plan, there's no timeline, there's no, there's nothing.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't have to defend him. We're not attacking him. We're just saying for you right now, this is a shiny object that could distract you. To your credit, you call us to ask us what we think and we're saying don't pay attention to the shiny object. Keep walking. Let's walk forward. Let's see if this thing materializes. Yeah, got it.

[Caller]

I mean, sure, go ahead. The one last thing was just like I was even considering like going to Bible college. I'm a single guy, no kids, no mortgage, nothing like that. I considered doing a lot more mission focused, like Christian focused type stuff. And this was kind of a, what I thought could be like an intersection.

Of both of those.

And I was also just wondering more broadly what like Dave and your take would be on pursuing something that doesn't have as much of a guarantee, paycheck or even if it doesn't, you can.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do ministry and still have an income.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. And you could also decide to go be a full time missionary and make a lot less money. I don't have a problem with that. That's not what you gave us. You gave us this. Well, there's this opportunity and now you're saying it's a cross section. And I'm saying it might very well be. It is not now. So if you as a single guy, you want to kick the tires and consider mission work or ministry work, go for it. But that's a full time job that if you have to change your lifestyle to meet that new salary, I'm fine with that. But this other deal is not any of those things.

[Jade Warshaw]

I agree.

[Caller]

Yeah, fair enough.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a super exciting volunteer job. So treat it that way. How much time can you give it in line with everything else that you need to do? And what you need to do is figure out what God has for you. Next. Here's what I'm going to do you for? I would love to gift you my book. And it comes with the assessment, the get clear career assessment. The book's called how, excuse me, find the work you're wired to do. I recommend you take the assessment and read this book. Take about 45 minute reading. It'll really help you make some good decisions about how you're wired and what the next steps are for you. So hang on the line and we'll get you that book in the assessment.

[Jade Warshaw]

So this wasn't about a good business idea. This was about shifting a career shift into a different field. That's really what the question is.

[Ken Coleman]

I think you nailed it. I think he's been kicked out of the nest and he's like, okay, he's clearly not on fire financially. He's got six months where he can breathe. And here comes this thing that is a shiny object. It's attached to ministry, his church, his pastor, it's all aligning with his heart. And I love that. But we need to use our head too.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's. That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

And I'm a fan of getting the heart and the head aligned.

[Jade Warshaw]

So important. Then your hands do what they need to be doing.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. So, you know, again, you're in great shape here, but make wise decisions. A lot of prayer, a lot of feedback from other people in your life, not just two people on the air that have taken just a smidge of all of this involved and tried to give you good advice. This show is sponsored by Better Help. All right, this time of year can be tough, so I want you to make sure you check on your friends and your loved ones and even reconnect with people you haven't talked to in a while. I recently called one of my childhood friends and we had an amazing catch up conversation. We laughed hard and we talked about the struggles we've been having. It was fantastic. And just like it can take a little courage to send that message or grab coffee with someone you haven't seen in a while. Reaching out for therapy can also feel hard, but it can be worth it. If you're thinking about therapy, I recommend BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, they've served over 5 million people globally and they have an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 stars. It's totally online, so it's easy to fit into your schedule. To get started, you just answer a few simple questions and BetterHelp will connect you with a licensed therapist. If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any Time for no extra cost this month. Don't wait to reach out. Visit betterhelp.comramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L P Angela joins us next in Mississippi. Angela, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, Ken and Jade, thanks for speaking with me today. I was calling specifically about some advice on instilling contentment at a young age. A little context. We have a six and a half year old daughter in first grade and my husband and I, we have financially decided to invest in her future and send her to a private Christian education. And so that's where a large part of our income come goes every month. And we are already seeing a keeping up with the Joneses issue arising. So she's in first grade, she's coming back, and she wants what her friends have. I can name a few examples, but they're really creepy little fuzzy keychain critters. And it's little things like that where. You know what I'm talking about.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I do.

[Caller]

It's little things like that where we had no intention of getting her one or anything like that, but. And quite honestly, she didn't even know what it was until she went to school and everybody else had them. So we see this problem arising of, even as she gets older, of going to school and you know, wanting what all the quote unquote, cool kids have or, you know, listen, that's gonna happen.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's gonna happen no matter what. What. Regardless of what school they go to.

[Caller]

Yeah. And so we were, my husband and I were just wondering how do we start teaching her contentment now before it gets bigger? We, we've done FPU for kids with her and so she's super excited about her envelopes and has like the biggest heart, loves to save, loves to give, also really loves to spend. And so how do we transition this into just being content with you, with what you already have? Because saying, oh well, just be grateful for what you already have. You know, not all kids have X. Yeah, that only goes so far with a six year old.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Listen, I am, Angela, I am in that boat with you right now. I have a kid in second grade, I have a kindergartner. And I am having those same conversations all the time. And you want to know what I think part of it is, is when you're a kid, I mean, you're born selfish, right? It's give me my food when I'm ready. You know, everybody does everything for me. The world kind of revolves around them and they, when they see Something they want, they want it. And especially if their friends have it, they want it too. So part of that's just the nature of being a kid. And I'll tell you where I'm at now. I don't know that I'm right. Cause I'm not ahead of you. Ken can probably give a. Us, us some better judgment here, but what I'm at right now is I feel like I'm planting seeds. So if I'm planting the seeds, I usually don't see the crop for quite a while. And it can be tempting to think that if I plant the seed, then tomorrow I'll see the fruit and it's just not like that. So I've kind of told myself, I'm telling them, hey, the things, things aren't what make you happy. This is gonna, you know, you've gotta be, you've gotta learn to be happy with what you have. You don't have to look at other people, right? I can plant all of those seeds, seeds, and then I've got to just wait for them to grow. And then the other part for me is what am I, how, what am I like? Am I a person that every time I go to the store I have to buy something? Am I a person that every time I see something I'm commenting on it and saying, oh, I wonder, let's see, I wonder if I can get that right. I also have to check myself and make sure what am I putting into the house? Because if I'm a person who seems like every time I walk in the house I have shopping bags. Well, that, and I'm not really helping my case here. So that's where I'm at. Ken, you're the wise, the wise old owl here.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you got part of it right. I'm the old owl. I don't know how wise I am, but our kids are, our kids are 20, 17 and 16. And my wife Stacy did a phenomenal job on this. And I can tell you some of the things that we did. And I would tell you at this age, 6 years of age, you're gonna have to show more than 10 tell. I like what Jade said. I do think you, I do think you have the object lesson and I think you share sound bite because that's all a six year old's going to pay attention to, right? But I will tell you that as consistently as you can, a short little bumper sticker response when she says that, just go, you know what you're going to learn one day. We can't have Everything. We want some little. Whatever you want to say, trust your instinct and say it. But it's not in a sit down lecture because the six old year old just can't process it. What I mean by show not tell is some of the things that Stacy did. We did this early on when the kids were about that age, 6 or 7, we started dialing back on Christmas. We got some great advice from an older couple and we started giving the kids just three gifts for Christmas as an example. And we would do three equally great gifts. In other words, we got their list and instead of 10 things, we gave them three. So it was less than they wanted. And that was an object lesson. They were like, oh, but all three gifts were awesome. And then we told them that they had to take one of their three gifts and they had to choose a child at the children's hospital to give it to. And we took them to Children's Hospital in Atlanta and they had picked out one of their three amazing gifts and they gave it to a kid who was very, very sick.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love this.

[Ken Coleman]

That was something that, again, no credit there. That was. Older couple told us that. And we did that for about three or four years. And I will tell you that that taught our kids as much as anything that we ever told them.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell us the first. Be 100% real the first year you did that. How did they take it? What did they do?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, they're young enough to where it's not a complete attitude thing. Like, I wouldn't recommend you throw this on 11 and 12 year olds.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Ken Coleman]

Because at that point it's like, I'm not saying the horse is out of the barn, but it's a lot of attitude you got to deal with.

[Jade Warshaw]

But with, you know, a kindergartner, they.

[Ken Coleman]

Were kind of like, what are we doing? Like, they needed some clarification. You're telling me that I gotta pick one of these three and we're gonna give it? And we was like, yeah, we're gonna.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did they think they were getting in trouble? Did they treat it as a consequence?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I think they got it conceptually until they went down to Children's Hospital and they walked the gift in and they personally hand it to a different kid. And I think they got it and I think we could have done that in a lower income area area. It doesn't have to be a children's hospital. But the idea is show, not tell. And you're trying because your question, Angela, was how do we teach contentment? And the way I think you teach contentment is you show them how good they have it. Not tell them how good they have it. Show them. And so that's what you can take that in ideate and do your own version of that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm going to do exactly that.

[Ken Coleman]

But here's what it did. When they weren't thrilled.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm sure they weren't. I'm thinking about what my kids would do. I know Angela's thinking about what her daughter's gonna do, but they weren't thrilled.

[Ken Coleman]

But here's the thing.

[Jade Warshaw]

They understood, made it not just about them.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. It wasn't mom and dad are trying to ruin Christmas. It was mom and dad are trying to show us that there are people in this world that are my age that look a lot like me, and they are in a worse situation than me. And I'm giving them out of my goodness. I'm giving them some of the goodness in my life. I do think that plants a very important seed.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Caller]

Yes, I agree.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's so good. I'm thinking about it.

[Ken Coleman]

It's tough. By the way, as a parent, let me also say it's not easy to say that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my God. Well, I'm putting myself in you guys shoes right now because you want to know. I'll tell you, Angela, what I was thinking as Ken was saying that. Next thing I'm thinking is, well, when you got back home, I'd want to have another gift sitting there waiting for.

[Ken Coleman]

No, but that's not.

[Jade Warshaw]

Then it takes away from it. I know.

[Caller]

And keep in mind my question about it was at our church. My daughter's really excited about the. The angel tree or the giving tree of adopting a family and buying things for them. And we've explained, like, these are families that, you know, if it weren't for us, they wouldn't have anything for Christmas and maybe just need some clothes and. And she gets stupid. Like she wants to go buy the whole store for them and give them the world. And so that that desire is there. But I'm wondering if that's just a little less effective than what you just brought up. It's not something that was hers that she's getting.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, here's what I would tell you. Does she get an allowance of any type?

[Caller]

Nope. We don't do allowances. We do commissions for her.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

Her money.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. Sorry. Yeah, I used. Dave hates allowance. Okay, here's my point.

[Caller]

You're fine.

[Ken Coleman]

I would take her commissions and say, you're going to adopt a family out of your money, like, get her money in the game. I think it's just as powerful as a lesson as what I shared. That was just one idea.

[Jade Warshaw]

The idea is seeing it, though, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's my point. If she takes her commission and she goes and buys the gifts and then hands it to the little girl and their family, the point is they need to see others that are not. Listen, kids can pick up on, ooh, they don't have it as good as us. Yeah, they need to see it and feel it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well, make a healthy profit and grow. And your team, family, and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking, talking about AI like it's magic and you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it all alone. That's where NetSuite comes in. Over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system. Accounting, inventory, CRM, payroll, the works. And now NetSuite's AI takes it further. Automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time, and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster, you're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And yeah, switching systems is a big move, but NetSuite's suite success process gets you up and running fast. Go to netsuite.comramsey for a free product tour and to schedule time with a NetSuite rep. That's NetSuite.com Ramsey Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, if you all are getting something out of the show, it's helping you. We would love for you to help us. The best way to grow our show is for you to share because you have so much credibility. So, like, share, subscribe however you're listening, wherever you're listening, and give us all the ratings and follows all the things. I can't keep up with it anymore, but you know what they are. We would appreciate that so much. Chloe is joining us now in Houston, Texas. Chloe, how can we help?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi.

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure. What's going on today?

[Caller]

My mom recently passed and I was. Thank you. Tell us what happened on the journey. I was on the journey of just working on my baby steps before this law. So now I'm just trying to navigate. I have six younger siblings. They're. They're minors. And, you know, I'll be taking them on Full time. So I'm just trying to figure out as far as like, bless you, her home goes. We, you know, we did have some conversations before she passed and she was wanting to get a bigger house to fit the kids. And she does still have a mortgage, so I don't know if it would be smarter for me to keep the home and just keep paying on it or you know, sell it and you know, of course pay the mortgage company off.

[Ken Coleman]

And what is your, what is your living situation? Do you own a home or are you renting?

[Caller]

No, I'm renting, but I mean my.

Lease is up next to months, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Can you even put all of the siblings in there with you? Is there enough room?

[Caller]

No, not in my apartment. No.

I will be letting this apartment go and trying to figure out, you know.

This with my mom's house.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's, what's, what's the mortgage on your mom's house?

[Caller]

She owes 65 and it's like 1,200 something.

[Ken Coleman]

Did she, did you get the house? Is that been or is that still up in the air as to who, who gets the house now that she's not no longer with us?

[Caller]

No, I, I would be getting a home.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, what's your current rent?

[Caller]

Yeah, my current rent. I, I don't really have rent. My partner, he works for.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it.

[Caller]

Company.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so would.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, so it's a company apartment that he's getting.

[Caller]

Right, Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so tell me, tell me about your income. Just you?

[Caller]

Just me. I'm making 58k in salary, but I'm also working 2 part time jobs which I, I probably won't be doing them for long now that this tr. Captain. Okay, there like 500 every week.

[Ken Coleman]

Now let me make sure I understand. You're working two part time jobs in addition to the $58,000 job?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Look at you. Okay, what are you doing that for? What's, what's all that hustle for?

[Caller]

She had been sick for a while and I was kind of just helping with bills, but I also wanted to pay, you know, some of my debt off.

So I started this about two months ago.

[Ken Coleman]

Good for you. I'm so impressed with your hustle. What kind of debt do you, you have?

[Caller]

Honestly, I don't have a lot of debt. My car is like 21,000 and then I do have a student loan for 10,000 and then collections, it's like 4,000. Multiple things in that amount.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Like 4,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

So the good news is, let's say, okay, you just at your base job, you're make you're bringing home 4,000 bucks a month? Yes.

[Caller]

Yeah, just about. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And let, if you did pick up a smaller, you let, maybe you let two of the three side hustles go. Right. The good news is the mortgage is right at 25, right where you want it to be. So that's not a terrible thing. It's just a. Getting accustomed to a life where you're paying rent or paying a mortgage. Right. Then from there there should still be a little bit. You're going to have to adjust to what it's going to be like to support six siblings. Can you tell us the ages of the siblings?

[Caller]

5, 7, 13, 215 year olds and a 16 year old.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And is the 5 year old in kindergarten yet?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So everybody's in school eight hours a day.

[Ken Coleman]

That is, do you have, do you have after care? I mean what, how will this affect your ability to do your job for the youngsters?

[Caller]

So I would probably have to let the like my part time jobs are usually like evening times through the night. So I would have to let those go because they get out of school.

Around like 4:30, you know, so you can.

[Ken Coleman]

So this won't. The point is, is this taking care of the little ones that are, you know, obviously need supervision? You can keep your $58,000. That's not going to affect that job at all. Just the two part time.

[Caller]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good.

[Ken Coleman]

So I love you getting rid of the two part time jobs at least in the short term, just to see what this new rhythm is going to be like. Bless your heart. You got Chloe.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're amazing.

[Ken Coleman]

You really are.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're amazing.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, I got to believe that. I mean I got to believe you. You knew this was coming, right? You said she was sick for a while. Had you thought about this day and kind of started thinking about what that would mean for you or is this all hitting you suddenly?

[Caller]

We definitely weren't expecting her to, to pass like anytime soon.

We were hoping for her to recover.

But I did think about if this.

Did happen, what that would look like.

So.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

How long ago did she pass.

[Caller]

On the first.

So it's, it's very recent.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, Chloe, bless your heart. Heart, you are just going through it right now. We're so, so sorry.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's so, so tough. But you're, you are rising to the occasion in some very amazing ways right now. Thank, I mean on behalf of all the siblings, I'm just saying thank you because somebody needed to step in and the fact that you are is so incredible.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's talk about this house, though. That's the big question she called in with.

[Jade Warshaw]

She can afford it.

[Ken Coleman]

She can. Where's the. Where's your partner come in on this? You know.

[Caller]

He'S. He's fully on board. He's been in the family and we.

Went to high school together.

So he. He knows my family really well and they. They love him.

[Jade Warshaw]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I am 30. Okay. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just double checking.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Which way, Chloe? Which way were you leaning before you called us? As it relates to this house, what were you leaning towards doing? I know this is all super fresh. Fresh.

[Caller]

I honestly wanted to get a bigger house due to the fact that I. A lot of work needs to be put into the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Thought about that every which way. You know, AC needs to be replaced. Foundation is messed up.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

There's a lot of different things that.

Need to be done in the home. And I just. Rather than putting that money into it, I'd rather just fill it as is and.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Caller]

It's smooth.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't need a project in your life right now. Knowing that, what do you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, now my question goes to. To money. Do you have any money saved?

[Caller]

Unfortunately, no. Not anymore. I mean, I have like the thousand dollars saved.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

All the rest of that, what I. What I did have saved, I had to spend it on her funeral arrangement. Yeah, that's. That thanked me. Here's my savings.

[Jade Warshaw]

Here's. I'm going tell you just some mathematics. This is not emotional at all. I look at a $65,000 mortgage that likely has a really great interest rate on it. And I think the light. I think to myself, I'd rather be on the hook for $65,000 and have to replace a roof and maybe do $10,000 of work on a foundation or even $20,000 of work on a foundation than getting into today's housing market where you're at new now with the median home price being 424,000, where you're going to have to put 60% down. Right. That.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I agree with you. Is it livable, though, Chloe? I mean, in other words, all those things are true, but could you live in it for a season until you guys got out of this, learned what this new rhythm of life looks like, figure out what. What we can do to fix it? What is it livable?

[Caller]

It. It's livable. But I would have to like for sure, like the plumbing part of it and some other like miners.

[Jade Warshaw]

I tell you what, my point. My point is you can't get into another house today. That's my point.

[Ken Coleman]

No, but I wonder if she just rents and we tell a lot of people renting is a good move in certain situations. And I wonder if she gets this headache out of her life and doesn't have to worry about it. It on top of everything else having to come in and mother these siblings, she's in grief.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you can rent something that's no more than 25 to 30% of your take, you know what you're taking home. I'm okay with that. And selling this and taking the money if there is, and holding that over for a later time, that's. Yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I, I just think this is a tough reset, a whole new life for her. And I don't think having a, a, a money pit of a house is a great, good play.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's true.

[Ken Coleman]

I'd rent for right now. And you and your partner come up with a good plan going forward. All right, let's go to Sadie in Colorado. Sadie, how can we help you today?

[Caller]

Hi, Ken and Jade, thank you so much for taking my call. I must admit, I'm a little bit starstruck. I enjoy listening to the Dave Ramsey show.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, we are appreciative of you listening and I know that you're starstruck because Jade is here and trust me, she's very down to earth. She's gonna treat you very well. Thank you. Yeah, you bet. What's going on?

[Caller]

Well, I. So I'm in the, in the midst of trying to, I guess, move to a transition to an employment that I really feel is a good connection for me with my abilities and gifts and everything. I did read. I did take your assessment, Ken. I'm still working on reading your book, but I did take your assessment. So I do have a better idea of my giftings and everything.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have your results close by in case I want to ask them it?

[Caller]

I do.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, we'll just hold. I don't know that we need to get to it yet, but we might.

[Caller]

Okay, so with that in mind, I am subbing right now. I'm a day to day sub. Sometimes I get long term sub assignments. I make about, we'll say 40,000 a year, an average of 3,300amonth. I enjoy subbing, but I really love creating and I love writing poems, songs. I'm right now partner, maybe partnering with a publishing company to do a store like take some of my. One of my poems and make it a story. And it's about a national park that I visited. But the cost of that is 8,500. And so I have had a couple of songs produced, which. It costs money for that too. But this one is kind of a big chunk of money to get this my poems made into a book. So I'm a little hesitant because I have 12,000 in savings. It's 8,500 to work with this publishing company. And I make about right now without a long term sub assignment, just day to day subbing. I make, we'll say about 2,000amonth.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you single income?

[Caller]

I am single income. Yeah, I am single income. I do live with my mom. I lived on my own for about seven years when my dad passed away. Shortly after I ended up moving, you know, I moved with my mom. She. She can use the support and the help and how old are you? I'm 44.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have any debt?

[Caller]

I don't think thanks to Dave Ramsey and the 12k.

[Ken Coleman]

And the 12k in savings. Does that represent your emergency fund that is accessible.

[Caller]

So it's kind of whatever, whatever I need it for, I can grab it, but I also have about. Oh, go ahead.

[Ken Coleman]

I just want to make sure. Do you have an emergency emergency fund?

[Caller]

Is the emergency fund the thousand dollars?

[Jade Warshaw]

So baby step one is the $1,000 before you pay the debt off. You said you don't have any debt, which means baby step three, you have three to six months saved. So does this represent three months of expenses?

[Caller]

Yeah, I could. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Because you're.

[Ken Coleman]

2000Amonth is what you're making.

[Caller]

Yeah, exactly. And what I can live off of.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, all right. I have enough information. Information. I don't think you should spend $8,500 on anything.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

At this stage, given your income, I'd like to see you have way more in savings because you have such a small income. In other words, I would want you saving for other things. Right. Like sinking funds. And I won't get too far into that. I'll let Jade, and maybe she doesn't think it's too much. Let me tell you why I think it's too, too much.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

$8,500 is such a huge chunk of your savings. You just don't have it. So that's my number one. So we don't want to ever put the emergency fund into any kind of trouble. And we should never pull from the emergency fund unless it is, in fact an emergency. And you've got at least six grand in there, we're saying is three months. So the other thing is Both of us are published authors. Okay? And I know a lot of people in the publishing game. I know the independent publishing game. I know just enough to get me in trouble, which means just enough to give you good advice on this.

[Caller]

Okay, good.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't think you're at a stage in life where you need to be spending $8,500 to publish a book of your poems when you can go do it on Amazon for pennies on the dollar. And let's show our work. There's a great book that I'm gonna recommend you buy, and it's by a guy by the name of Austin Klein, Cleon K L E O N. And it's called show your work. And it's about half an inch thick, can read it in 30 minutes. It's very illustrative. As a creative, you will love it. But it is my homework assignment for you as to what you need to do before you ever think of spending this kind of money with a pseudo or hybrid publishing model. Let's get your work workout through. Self publishing means that are max. Hundreds of dollars at max. And let's put our work out and see how they do. And. And let's. Let's show our work and see where we stand instead of spending at this stage of your burgeoning writing career and where you are financially. I don't like this move because I think. Here's what's going to happen. I think you're going to spend $8,500 and you're going to sell just as many copies as you would if you spent $85. Okay, now that sounds like I'm stepping on the dream.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, it doesn't.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, okay. Thank you. Because I feel that way. But I'm actually. I'm telling you from experience, you would be better off doing research and going, all right, what is the process for creating an ebook of my poems on Amazon and selling on Amazon? You got a link.

[Jade Warshaw]

You don't have to worry about it. You sell it through social media, and then you don't have to to sell a zillion copies before you break even on the 8,500 you spent. Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I agree with ken. You have 12,000 saved. Do you have any other money in retirement? Anything?

[Caller]

I do have about 20,000 in retirement.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. I want to take a stronger approach. Do I have permission?

[Caller]

Sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think that you need to take a long look in the mirror because when you started telling us, you were kind of making it seem like, hey, I'm living with my mom. She needed My help, she went through this thing. And that may be true, but without her, you couldn't be living right now.

[Caller]

If you weren't living, it would be tight.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, no, no, no, no, no. $2,000 a month, ma'. Am. You can't live on that. And you can't do that subbing here and there. You got to make this a full time deal now. I'm all about chasing dreams. All. You're talking to the creative herself. Like, I love what you said about the poems and I love, love that for you. I would never try to take that from you. But in the meantime, you must work. You must, because you're 44 and you will look up and the time will come when you can no longer do the work you want to do because your body won't let you do it. And you've got to have something there and you've got to create that foundation now. You've got time. I'm not saying you don't have time, but if you don't start moving it, that window to make this right gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And I don't want you to miss that window. Window.

[Caller]

Okay, well, I didn't think I was gonna be crying.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm sorry. I love you. I love you. That's why I'm telling you.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen, we're not trying to discourage you. We're trying to encourage you.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't let the creative stuff die. Yeah, but you got to test it. If you had called me and said, I want to spend 8, $500 to open up a food truck where I'm going to sell some type of food, I would have said the exact same thing. I'd have been like, let's see if we can sell it in our neighborhood. You know, we gotta test, test, test. What most people don't think about in this wonderful country called America, where we can start anything at any time, we don't think about the testing part. We just think about the launching part.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

And we've gotta test, we've gotta test. So please be encouraged. But listen, Jade's right, and I think she was the one person that could say it, you know, what are your relationship dreams? You don't have to answer these questions, but what are your relationship dreams? And what are you doing to live life the way that you want to live? And you don't have to necessarily do this on your own. And there is a time and a place to fully launch into something like poems or whatever. Keep writing. Keep writing about what moves you and Then show your work and I promise you, please get that book and do exactly what Austin tells you. Super easy, functional way for you to test your stuff and see what other people say and see if the stuff that moves my heart. Oh, some of the stuff that moves my heart moves other people's hearts. Ding, ding, ding. Now we've got something.

[Jade Warshaw]

And in the meantime, let's go get.

[Ken Coleman]

A really good job.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

And let's stay with mom just long enough to really get on our feet and let's get out in the real world, you know?

[Caller]

Yeah. My mom has a condition where I probably. It'll be indefinite, but that's okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's. Yeah, you can stay and take care of her. But don't let that stop you from launching into making a full salary. You are smart and capable and have so much to offer.

[Ken Coleman]

What's up, guys? George Camel here. What if I told you that you had thousands of extra dollars hiding in your budget right now? Listen, I know how crazy that sounds. You're thinking, dude, I'm broke. My money's tighter than the middle seat on a spirit flight. But believe it or not, you've got more margin than you think. And our every dollar budgeting app helps you find it. In fact, the Average person finds $3015 on average in just the first 15 minutes. That's like giving yourself a huge raise without an awkward conversation with your boss. Now look, this isn't magic. You're not hitting the lottery. This is just your money that we're helping you reclaim and reorganize. And everydollar shows you how to make the most of it so you can make faster progress on your goals. So don't miss out on thousands of dollars of margin. Go start everydollar for free by downloading the app in the app store or Google Play right now. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman. Dustin is going to start us off here in New York. Dustin, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet. What's going on?

[Caller]

Well, I have a question about housing and budgeting. So let me give you a little bit of context. My wife and I are in our early 30s. We've been working baby steps. We've been married about two years and at about the year and a half mark we paid off, we finished paying off around 70,000 worth of debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Way to go.

[Caller]

Thank you. And so we currently live in a one bedroom co op in the Hudson Valley, which costs us around $1,600 a month. So with that in our budget, we're able to save between three and $4,000 a month. And we've been doing that since we got married. And so we're about to have, we have a seven month old now and in the coming May we're going to have our second child. And so that's a lot of people to put in a one bedroom apartment. So to get to a bigger place, it would be about $2,400 a month at least in this area, just because it's the Hudson Valley. And so our child care costs are likely to go up in the coming August once paternity and maternity leave is done. And so my question is like, do we stick it out here? Because our long term plan is to move out of state in about two years once my mother in law retires. And so we're saving up for a down payment. But in the same, that's my question. Indiana, we want to go to Indianapolis into.

[Jade Warshaw]

In about two years.

[Caller]

In about two years.

[Ken Coleman]

How much money have you got saved up?

[Caller]

So we currently have around 17,000 saved up. We just finished paying off all of our debt. So we're like, we're just getting started on that saving process.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you're saving a lot per month, which is great.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And our living situation really helps with that. And you know, we got family nearby and all that, so the location is good. It's just the square footage is not great.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And so, you know, do I, do I sell our co op in the meantime so that during that two year waiting period we can have a, you know, more expensive but larger place or do we just kind of stick it out in the one bedroom with four people?

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, if I would, what I would do is I'd stick it out for as long as I possibly can because the more that you can save on your living is, the more money that you can save for a potential down payment. And I don't have to tell you, you're, you need a lot of money saved for a down payment these days. Right. So the more that you can get saved in the next two to two and a half years, that would be my number one goal. Matter of fact, I'd run it back and say, okay, based on Indianapolis home prices and based on what we want.

[Ken Coleman]

Which I got you over here. Whenever you're ready. Whenever you're ready.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ready, yeah. We're going to plug that in and then we're going to run it back and say, okay, what must be True for us to move in. And then that's the, that, that is a sil, the silver bullet of what we're saving for in the next two, two and a half years.

[Ken Coleman]

So Kim, I'm your assistant. I'm giving you some numbers.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I don't, my computer died so I don't have it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, I got you.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, you got it.

[Ken Coleman]

It's what I'm here for.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

So in Indianapolis, an average price for a three bedroom home. I did three bedroom cuz it's going to feel like a castle to him.

[Jade Warshaw]

Love it.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I love hearing the little one in the background. That's real. We like that folks. 230 to 299. Up this approximately 230,000 to 299,000. Some specifics if you look at Marion county because I typed in greater Indianapolis area. So I'm giving So this is just, this is the homework you need to do, my friend. But you got Marion county Median Price is 229. Hendricks county median price is 303. Johnson county median price is 298. So let's other surroundings.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you 300.

[Ken Coleman]

230 to 300,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then let's add a little inflation to that. Let's say 240. Right. That's what I would say because this is two and a half years from now. So you say 240 and then knowing that what you're attempting to do is put 25% down, then you can go in and plug in estimated taxes and insurance and all of that. And that number, number is what you need to be.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I got him. I got him at if you guys continue to save. If I was listening correctly, you were saving three to 4,000amonth. You guys can have a shot at getting close to 100,000. Just your savings not including any equity in the co op.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right?

[Caller]

Correct. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So I, I, what's your equity in the co op?

[Caller]

We think based upon comps that I've run in the area that I can get around 50 after the sale. And so that brings us pretty close to that 20% down payment with what we have saved.

[Jade Warshaw]

Great.

[Caller]

And we're targeting a house in Indianapolis around the 300,000 mark.

[Jade Warshaw]

Love that.

[Ken Coleman]

That's very doable. And I'm with Jade then. Listen, the babies don't know. This is going to be tough on you and mom. But you know what? Two little babies. These are going to be memories that you two talk about when the kids are long gone for sure. And you're going to be like, we did it. And I think since we're not asking the kids to suffer, you guys aren't really suffering, but it is a form of suffering. And I'm with my partner on this one. Listen, she and Sam, I brag about this. She and Sam had one car for how long?

[Jade Warshaw]

10 years.

[Ken Coleman]

And. And how many years after you actually had the money to buy a car? Long.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's see. So we were done in 2018. I didn't buy a second car till we got here, which was 20, 22.

[Ken Coleman]

Which I don't recommend. I think she's bananas, but she's the real deal. So I'm with Jade. I 100% would suck it up. They're little ones. It's gonna be crazy anyway. Two years is gonna fly when you got two babies. I know.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

The days are long, but the years are short.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

And I'm with Jade 100%. I tough it out and then make the triumphant entry into Indianapolis with a really, really nice down payment. And by the way, cost of living there. Fantastic. So, man, you're going to feel like from Hudson Valley to the greater Indianapolis area. Oh, man, what a change.

[Jade Warshaw]

Unless.

[Caller]

Looking forward to that.

[Ken Coleman]

Wait a second.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, no, no, no.

[Ken Coleman]

Hold on, Dustin. She's got an idea.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, it's not an idea. I was just about to throw some bait into the water. Go for it. I was gonna throw.

[Ken Coleman]

Go for it.

[Jade Warshaw]

You said it's a really great cost of living there. And I was gonna say, unless you're.

[Ken Coleman]

Compared to the Legend Valley.

[Jade Warshaw]

Unless everybody in New York gets spooked and starts going to places like Indiana and Florida. Tennessee.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, we have some people raising their hands out there.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know what I'm saying? Indiana is the new Tennessee.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you. Are y' all leaving upstate New York? I met you all earlier. Is that what you did?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

See, that's what I'm saying now. I'm not trying to spook you, but I'm just saying the migration is real.

[Ken Coleman]

They're more mature. Can we say that they're a little bit more mature in age?

[Jade Warshaw]

There are predictions being made. I'm just saying, about another great migration.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, well, we'll see.

[Jade Warshaw]

We'll see. Times will tell.

[Ken Coleman]

Now's the time, folks.

[Jade Warshaw]

I thought I was setting you. That's why I said I was putting a line in the water.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I'm not going to take it. Well, I'll say this. I'll say this. I. When people say they're going to leave this country based on some political change. Number one, it's their right to say it. We saw a lot of celebs say it. A few actually did it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Instead they just went to Indiana.

[Ken Coleman]

They went to England.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, I'm just kidding.

[Ken Coleman]

The celebrities I'm thinking of. Yeah, but you know, listen, are people going to leave over stuff like that? You better believe it. We saw massive migration from California. We saw it here in middle Tennessee. Certainly a lot of people moving to Florida. It's certainly going to happen. But I don't think, and I'm and my, my brother in law and sister in law live in Indianapolis. So I apologize ahead of time. Of all the places people are going to flee from New York, I don't think it's Indianapolis. I'm not throwing shade at any of my friends. It's another nice area, sir. It's a lovely area, but it's not on the top of anybody's list.

[Caller]

Is that fair?

[Ken Coleman]

Even he's acknowledging me, he's like, well, you make a good point. Lovely place to live. Is it a top destination? I don't think so.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, today's question comes from Bailey in Maryland. They say we currently have $7,500 in credit card debt and an $800,000 home loan. Now the home is worth 1 million. We have around 50,000 invested in single stocks to give to our kids when they are adults and out on their own. The kids are now 10 years old and we are investing regularly for them. On one hand, I feel like we should cash in these to put towards our debt. However, I also know that time is such a huge factor in long term investing and I won't make that much of an impact on such a large debt. We currently make 175,000 per year combined. What should be our priority? Okay, so the 7,500 in credit card debt. And it sounds like that's the only consumer debt that you have. Okay, the rest of it, 800,000 on the home loan. That is not part of baby step two. Baby step two is we pay off everything except the house. So on your salary of 175,000 per year, unless there's a typo on this, why don't you reach over yesterday and pay off the 7,500 in credit card debt? Unless that's a typo, I don't understand where the problem is. Now we can talk about how I think your money is best invested. That's kind of beside the point. Right, right now. But no, you don't need to liquidate that stock to pay off this debt. You can cash flow that in two seconds is my point. Now if we keep going and we're talking about on down through the baby steps, do you need three to six months of expenses saved? Yes, you do. Now we can talk about, is there any, any money at our disposal that we can start to do this? If I were you, I would still take my salary and I would cash flow three to six months. Now this money that you invested for your credit kids, if it were me, I would pull it out of single stocks and I would drop it in a 529 plan. That's what I would do. Because single stocks is not the best way to invest money anyway. Now if you said, well, Jade, if I just invested in the market, I have more investments open that I can use, blah, blah, blah. If you wanted to park it in some sort of a brokerage, I suppose you could do that, but it's not the best tax advantage for you. That's why I would do a 529. That's what I would do with this 50,000 investors invested. I would then turn around cash flow three to six months and then you're, you're, you're off to the races. And then baby step seven, baby step six, is when you're going to pay off this home. Okay, so that's kind of how this works. With the money that you have, you're going to be putting extra payments toward this mortgage for a long time until it's done, or, you know, paying a little here and a little there until it's done. But it's not something that you have to do in baby step two. I just want to be clear about that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep, good advice. I can't add anything to that. Also, I want to mention our new everydollar is here. It's way more than the world class budgeting app that we've been talking about. I was meeting with the team the other day. I was like, hey, I want to get in on the inside of this thing. I'm looking at it, playing around with all the new features and the best I could come away with. I said, guys, this is literally like someone could get on the app and with all the questions they're going to answer in the first 10 minutes. Minutes, it's like talking to us on the air, but way more detailed. And you get all kinds of content. They're like, that's exactly what it is. Plus you can get access to a real live person who is a coach, one of our financial coaches right here. So fantastic stuff. And the average person finds thousands of dollars of margin in just the first 15 minutes. So start every dollar today for free by getting it in the app store or Google Play.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, let me run back what I said to Bailey in Maryland. You know, I'm thinking about it. I, I would, you know, the 50,000, you have an $800,000 home. You need a three to six month emergency fund today. I probably would liquidate it and use that as my emergency fund and then restart with the 529s. All right, final answer.

[Ken Coleman]

Final answer, folks. She has spoken. Kevin is up in California. Kevin, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, thank you for taking my call. My question is I am 21 in my final year of college with $50,000 in no debt. And I'm not really sure what to do, but I have a few options with my main one being real estate. As my family has said, they'll go 50, 50 investment property if I figure out the whole prop. The whole process in purchasing and going about the investment property.

[Ken Coleman]

Did you say 50 or 60,000?

[Caller]

50. 50.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And when do you finish school?

[Caller]

I finish in May.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And your degree is in business. And what do we want to do? What are we looking for? What's that job we're looking for?

[Caller]

I'm going to be starting full time in the fall as a business analyst.

[Ken Coleman]

Congrats. How much will we be making?

[Caller]

I want to say I'm very privileged. I'm very thankful, but around 120 to 130,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. And you have zero debt?

[Caller]

Zero debt. My family made a deal where if I go to community college for two years and then transfer to a four year, they'll pay for my great two years. In.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. Okay. I just wanted to get a quick snapshot for Jade and I on your total financial picture so that we can now address the question. And if we can go back into the question, you've got the 50,000 in savings and you're going, what, what should I do with that? Is that what I'm understanding?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's. Right now the 50,000 is invested in the market, but I don't really trust myself in the market because I. Yeah, I just don't.

[Ken Coleman]

How is it.

[Caller]

I'd rather.

[Ken Coleman]

How is it invested in the market? Be specific. Is this in a, a mutual fund or is this in single stocks?

[Caller]

Sadly, I know it's terrible, but single stocks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. All right. What's at the end of the world here? It's just not the strategy. All right, Jade, jump in here.

[Jade Warshaw]

So what do you want to do? Is this a home for yourself or is this some kind of rental? Like, what are you thinking?

[Caller]

I would want to see a rental. Yeah, I want to. A rental.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can I ask, why a rental? And why not a place where you're just living, learning about what it means to own a home?

[Caller]

Yeah. So because I'm going to be graduating after I graduate, I'm planning on. And again, like, I'm very thankful for this, but living with my family, with my parents, because my job, I'm traveling like half the year and then the other half a year my parents are traveling themselves. And so I didn't see the point of having my own home, even though all my friends are going to be living and moving out.

[Jade Warshaw]

So let me tell you what I would do, knowing what you've said. I would combine the best of both worlds. And I'm going to ask more questions to make sure that you're in this position. But if you're in the position to buy, I would buy a home and I would make the home for me, but I would also have roommates, and I would have roommates that live there. So that while I'm traveling, I'm still bringing in income. Income. But I also have this place that's my own that I'm building. I'm learning what it is to, to live in a home. I'm, I've launched out of my parents house. Do you see what I'm saying? So you're getting the best of both worlds where you're feeling independent, but you're also still feeling like you're bringing in rental income. Does that make sense? The only caveats to that are, number one, you would need to be able to pay the rent on your own or pay the mortgage on your own, no problem. Even if you didn't have have roommates, that'd be number one. And then number two, you'd have to meet the normal criteria for what we would say is a proper home buying experience, which is the payment's no more than 25% of your take home pay, you're out of debt, which you said you are, and you've got three to six months of expenses sitting aside. Now, my screen says that you don't think you need an emergency fund. Tell me more about that.

[Caller]

Yeah, I might. My, my parents are pretty involved in my life and if something were to take a turn for the worse, I think they'd be there for me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why can't you be there for you, though? Why wouldn't we set ourselves up for you to be there for you? Since you're very true. You're 21.

[Caller]

Very true. Honestly, I just, that's. Yeah, you got a great point.

[Ken Coleman]

Can I, can I ask a question? Because you've been very humble. You are. And I think you're, I think you're being very, very delicate here in how you choose your words. So I'll ask, are your parents very wealthy?

[Caller]

I would say they're comfortable to a sense.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. But they're not. But it's not a trap question because I wonder if your parents are very, very wealthy and they're saying to you pretty actively, hey, listen, do this, do this. We got you here. Then it makes sense to all of your responses. And I love that Jade's going, that is a blessing. And you've called it that, by the way. But regardless of that blessing, you still need to establish your own life knowing that mom and dad are very generous and can be. So. Don't want to put you on the spot with that. But that's what I'm sensing. And I think Jade's advice is actually really, really great. Thanks, mom and dad. You're amazing. But I want to find my own way, build my own way, and I want to do it in a way that, that's very responsible.

[Jade Warshaw]

And if they're going to match your 50% on the down payment, I think that's wonderful for them to do that. Yes. Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz and I've got great news here for you.

[Ken Coleman]

The Ramsey Christmas Cash giveaway is here.

[Jade Warshaw]

We are giving away $500 every week, plus a grand prize of $5,000 in cash. Listen, you can enter daily to boost your chances of winning.

[Caller]

And there's no purchase necessary.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just go to ramseysolutions.comgiveaway. that's ramseysolutions.comgiveaway. good luck, you guys.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, question for the audience here. Do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money but you don't feel like you're getting anywhere? Well, you're not alone. Maybe, just maybe you've made changes and had a few wins, but something feels off. But it's not because you've messed up. It's because money isn't just math. There's so much emotion tied to the money winning game. And if you're not emotionally where you need to be, it can sabotage all the progress. And that's what Jade Warshaw is taking on in her brand new book, what no one tells you about Money. And it's the first Ramsey book, by the way, that takes an honest, in depth look at the emotional side of money. So this is a book that's not been written and it needs to be written and it's going to help so many of you who are in the thick and thin now you know the baby steps, but do you know how your emotions are playing out? And you can pre order this now for $24.99 and get over $100 in free bonus items including the enhanced audiobook, early access to the e book book, instant access to an exclusive video from Jade, your financial checkup, and then an exclusive three week online book club where you get live Q and A with Jade. You can pre order now to get the best price and all the [e-mail] store. That's ramseysolutions.com store. Jade, I've been able to interview a lot of big time authors and I always love to ask them if there's only one thing, thing that readers can take away from this book. What no one tells you about money. What is it that you want them to take away? Oh, one thing, I know it's like asking you to choose between your kids, but what's that? If you go, okay, they read this book and here's what I want them to be able to take away, to be able to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

I want them to be able to identify what it is that they're feeling at the core of things. Because a lot of times it's just running in the background and it's influencing us and we don't know behavior. I, I, I explain it like this. If behavior is the car, right? We want, we want to, we want to get out of debt. That's the behavior, okay, I'm in the car. Our beliefs are in the driver's seat. I believe I can do it. So I'm ready to operate the vehicle. But our emotions can steer us off track. Emotions steer the wheel good. They can make us hit a tree. They make us go on a ditch. They can make us turn around and go the opposite direction. And if you don't feel that, if you don't know it's happening and you don't even realize it. Right, Ken, it's, it's. It's showing itself with you having arguments with your spouse just because they stopped off at the gas station to get a Mountain Dew on the way home. Why, why are you getting so mad about that? Why is it every time you go to the grocery store, you're worried that it's going to overdraw the account? So all of these things are operating in the back. It's operating when everybody. Somebody brings up student loans and you just get mad as a snake, Right? It's all back there. And you need to be able to see what is it that causes me to be so passive aggressive whenever somebody tells me something that they're winning at with money, Right. It's back there and you need see what it is. I help you identify it and then I help you fix it so you can actually get on track. So I hope that you know that it comes from a very, very real place, that it's not just another expert telling you something to do. It's someone who has stood in the mirror and cried and wondered what was wrong with their life and if they've ruined everything. I've done that. And so I want you to know it's coming from a person who's been exactly where you are. And that's why I can write about and explain how to get out.

[Ken Coleman]

So again, ramseysolutions.com store pre order it now comes out in first week of January. This is a fabulous gift, by the way, for that person who hasn't maybe decided to go all in on this process. But boy, if you can speak to their heart and get where they feel, ultimately you get an opportunity to help them change the way they act. So this would be a great gift, by the way, for that person in your life that struggling with money and can't feel figure out what they need to do next. Tyler's up in Oklahoma. Tyler, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. What is going on?

[Caller]

Sorry. This is kind of surreal being on here. I've listened to you guys so much crazy. So this is kind of a. Kind of a lot. I'll try to keep it brief. So I am in a tough situation right now. I was working away from home. I was doing a truck driver job and I was making pretty good money. I was trying to pay off some debt because I do have debt racked up and I'd been gone for a while and my wife was kind of like, you know, you got to get home. And I wanted to be home. And so I found something back home that wasn't as good pay, but I took it and then it kind of fell through. So, long story short, I'm back home now with no job. I was making pretty good money. Now I have no income, my wife doesn't work. And so we're in a really tough spot there.

And so.

So that's the first part. And then the second part is kind of like, I hated the truck driving job anyway. And I don't really know where to go from here. I've been struggling for a while. I'm like, kind of finding my path. I've listened to you a lot. I actually took your assessment and. But I just. I still can't quite figure out, like, where I want to go.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have your assessment results near you?

[Caller]

I actually do, yeah. I have them pulled up here. I can. I can read them to you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, let's, let's. This is. We're going to get to that, but I'm going to go ahead and write it down.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Top three talents. What you do best.

[Caller]

So I have Logic, organization, and justice.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, hold on. Logic, organization, and justice. Okay. All right, Top three passions.

[Caller]

Making, finishing and analyzing.

[Ken Coleman]

Making, finishing, and analyzing. All right. And what's your missional result?

[Caller]

Creation.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, so you like to create things. Okay, we're gonna get back to that. Okay.

[Caller]

Like I said, there's a lot.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, I know. Well, we got it. We got it. We got to deal with the urgent. Right. And then we. We got to win the now. And then we worry about the next. Yeah, you gotta go to work.

[Caller]

I've been applying for jobs and things like that. You know, I'm trying. I know. I've got to find something.

[Ken Coleman]

How long have you been out of work?

[Caller]

Just a week and a half.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. I would go back to the truck because that's, That's. There's a huge need in that area. And I know your wife doesn't like it, but we got bigger problems than how much time you're at home right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's just Bread and butter.

[Ken Coleman]

And we just got to go where we know there's a need. And I appreciate that you're applying for jobs, this becomes your full time job. But while you're applying, you're driving around construction sites, you're driving around anywhere where you've got a skill. If you've got a trade skill. In other words, if you're good with a hand hammer or you're good with a shovel, you have got to start working. And I mean today. And if not today, tomorrow. If I was in your shoes, I'd be going where I could get a check. We need to get checks coming in. And when we get checks coming in, we take care of all of the basics and we can breathe, which means we're allowed to think a little bit. And when thinking, we actually can think clearly with a thing like the assessment. So I just want to cover that. I don't care what it is. What were you making driving the truck, by the way? I didn't ask that.

[Caller]

I was making a little over three grand a week after taxes, my man.

[Ken Coleman]

That's like. That's a good chunk of change.

[Jade Warshaw]

It sure is.

[Caller]

It was good money. It was good money. But, you know, I've got three kids here at home and I was gone for five months and it was just.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, but you can't sit at home and not work.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Who?

[Dave Ramsey]

Who?

[Caller]

I know, I know.

[Ken Coleman]

But are they better off with you on the road making 12 grand a month, or are they better off you at home with no money coming in?

[Caller]

No, I totally understand. I just. It was really hard being away from them and things were kind of starting. My wife was struggling here. Okay, I get that.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me meet you there. Let me meet you there. But if you drove a. Do you drive an 18 wheeler?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. You're qualified to drive a lot of large equipment beyond just a truck. Is my guess true or false?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Dude, where's the need in your area? This is not resumes. It's you driving up on sites. I know for a fact, because I pay attention to this stuff every day, that the trucking industry and I understand there's the long haul, but there's also regional and then there's local stuff and they need somebody they can depend on. And buddy, you got a great resume and you got a good story, by the way. You could say, hey, I was driving 18 wheelers over the low, over the long road, but I left because. Because I got three little ones at home. And now I need to drive something big and and that puts out diesel fuel and stinks because I'm good at it and I can get paid for it. And I'm gonna take care of my family. You're not applying for jobs. Just. You are showing up on sites and a guy hops out of the truck. If you gotta go to a dagum truck stop and go, hey, I noticed you're driving a Coca Cola truck or a Pepsi truck or a beer truck. Are they hiding hiring right now? That's how we apply. And you go get behind the wheel of something that gets you home every night. But I think that's your best bet. Now on the assessment, here are the three questions you got to answer. Who are the people I want to help? What problem or desire do they have? What solution to that problem or desire fires me up. Now answer those three questions while looking at those assessment results and watch the ideas flow. And then please read the book. Hang on the line. We're going to get you find the work you're wired to do. I'll coach you all the way.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back. I may have my sheet, James. I don't have my.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think I have it. Description quote of the day. I got you right here, comrade.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, James, I was so nervous, man. I was looking in my stash here.

[Jade Warshaw]

I was trying to make you sweat.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, it worked. I was like, james, I'm going to need you to read the scripture of the day for us. But, hey, fear not, folks. Proverbs 12:15 is our scripture today. The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice. And our quote of the day from Milton Friedman, one of the great economists of all time. The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable. Profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.

[Jade Warshaw]

What a word.

[Ken Coleman]

Can I. I'm just going to read that again because Milton Friedman, a lot of people don't know who he is. You need to look him up. The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Chew on that for several hours, folks, and it'll eventually hit you. I get it immediately. And I think that's brilliant.

[Jade Warshaw]

It is brilliant.

[Ken Coleman]

Jason is up in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania, Jason, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet.

[Caller]

So my. My question is revolving around 529 plans. So when I had kids, I wanted to make sure they didn't start their adult life off with debt like I did, like so many other people do. So I opened 529 plans for each of the kids the year they were born. Fast forward 18 years and I was very proud to invested enough money in the 529 plans to fully fund both of my kids college education. As luck would have it, my eldest child, my son then earned a college scholarship covering his full tuition. He's going to graduate in a couple years with, with no debt and somewhere north of $150,000 in account for him. So that is kind of where my issue comes in. I got to thinking and my wife and I got to talking about how do we hand this money off to him and when. You know, those first handful of years out of college for me, you know, were a struggle. But I think that really taught me a lot of good lessons with debt and with money and being financially responsible. So I don't want to rob him of that. So just looking for a little bit of advice on, you know, how and when and to pass this money to him.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you thinking in terms of how you pass the money? Are you thinking of liquidating it and giving him the cash? Are you thinking of just giving it to him as a 529 and suggesting that he change the beneficiary to his future kid? Like what are your thoughts on that part of it? Yeah.

[Caller]

What I've started in Pennsylvania, if you get a college scholarship, you're able to take that amount out per year, which I've started to do. And I'm moving that into a brokerage account investing in index funds. So I'm going to give him the brokerage account at some point. We just don't know when. So that will be just a brokerage account open in his name that he will take over.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love that you made that transition. Um, Ken, I want you to add to this. Cause your kids are older than mine, I think so much of this depends on what type of kid this is. It depends on how they've managed their money. It depends on what their track record has been. Cause I'll tell you straight up, you know, in my mind, if I have a son who has been so responsible and so smart and done so well with his time and his money and all these things, and responsible. Yeah. When the time comes for him to buy a house, I'd love to help with that process. Whether it's help, 50, 50 on the down payment and this is the money that's going to do that, I don't have any problem with that sort of thing. As long as it's not enabling in any way. Does that make sense?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I love Your advice? I think, listen, all of us who have multiple kids, you know, they're all different, and they tend to handle money very different. I'm thinking of my three kids as you were talking, and I'm laughing. Just the differences between my three. You know them.

[Jade Warshaw]

I do. I do.

[Ken Coleman]

And they're all. I have one. Like, they don't listen to the show, so I could say it. My boy Chase. Let me tell you something.

[Jade Warshaw]

Don't say the name.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't mind. They will never see this or listen to this in a million years. You give it to him at 20, 21, and it ain't going anywhere. He's gonna keep it. He's gonna invest in it. It's gonna turn a lot of money.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, I'm not gonna disparage the other, because I'm not. But I'm just saying he's the one where I go automatically. It's a younger age for him. The other two, I want to see some things. I want to. And I got. You know, they're all great. I love that advice. I thought you. I thought it was good. I was. I was stepping into your advice in my situation. But I have a little bit of a courage curveball that goes outside of the three in their personalities, because I've toyed with this. So I haven't done this. So don't come at me.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm not. I'm listening.

[Ken Coleman]

I wonder if. And I love what Jason said. And, Jason, I agree with you. I remember coming out of college having nothing. I mean, nothing paid my student loans off. That's all I had. I didn't have a car payment, and I just drove a piece of crap forever. I mean, the car I picked Stacy up on in our first date. It's embarrassing. Embarrassing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So I do like that they need to figure it out.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love that part.

[Ken Coleman]

And there's part of me that goes, I wouldn't mind just putting it away in a true retirement account. And. And it's for their retirement. And just let it sit there and then over time, go, hey, by the way, this is something mom and I wanted to bless you with. And because I. I don't want them to have the brokerage I'd want them to have. I'd want them to have the retirement account is where I would.

[Jade Warshaw]

I see where you're going with that. Here's my only.

[Ken Coleman]

I. I should say it's where I'm leaning on this one. I'm not saying I'm solid on that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Here's why I Like the real estate thing. And I'm not saying right away, like I'm not saying when they're, you know, I'm 23, when they come out. I'm. What I like about the real estate is they're, they're, they're giving a leg up of building wealth early, earlier. But it's not. So it's not. I can just access this money and spend it and you know, it fall away. It's. It's going into a home for savings account. It's building equity. Something that's taking. I love it. People now decades to save for. To be able to have that help is such a big deal. I almost think it could make a bigger impact than having the retirement later because it's going to influence their day to day life and what they're to do. And that's my own.

[Ken Coleman]

I get it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Either one is good.

[Ken Coleman]

The reason I thought the real long term is it's like I want them to make their own decisions on that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And I don't know what they're going to do from a home.

[Jade Warshaw]

But then at 50, to be like, hey, this is here. It's like, oh, like, hey guys, that's different.

[Ken Coleman]

I've told you and I've been telling you to do your own thing, but we went ahead and, and so you got a nice. Now I. Because I think I could. I mean, I want to buy them all a house. All right. I do. These are things I want to do. Um, but I think, man, if I could put that money and let it sit and grow and it's something that goes, hey, you're gonna be okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Everybody would love to get that.

[Ken Coleman]

They can't touch it.

[Jade Warshaw]

What would be the age? Not when you die.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no.

[Jade Warshaw]

For them. Would it have to be 60?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I'm setting it up as a retirement account.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, that's long term.

[Ken Coleman]

I get it. I'm not saying, by the way that that's what I'm gonna do. I'm saying I'm just thinking about it. I went into Jason's call and I went with him and I went, what would I do? Do? What could I do? What's the longest term thing? That it's a blessing, but there's no temptation.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think I'd say whichever happens first, you're either 25 and you're ready to buy your first house or you're 27 ready or when you upon marriage, like when you get married.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think I would do that.

[Ken Coleman]

I love those too. I like that.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I would, I'm not sure. And it wouldn't be cash. It would be right down, down payment on a home.

[Ken Coleman]

I just think so few people think long, long term. And, and I like the long term gift.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean there is a nice growth on that. That's different.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm just kicking it around. I don't. Like I said, that is not a in stone statement for me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I get it. Me neither.

[Ken Coleman]

There you go. Jason, I. And here's the deal. You're such a good dad. Can we just come back to you and go? We gave you some ideas and thoughts, but man, how awesome does it feel for you to be in that position?

[Jade Warshaw]

I'd like to kick that out to the comments, see what they would say.

[Ken Coleman]

There you go. Oh, they'll comment. Jason, what do you think? We'll give you the last word.

[Caller]

Yeah, you know, I thought about some of that too. As far as, you know, with that 529 plan in Pennsylvania, we can roll, I think it's up to 35000 into a Roth. So.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Caller]

I may, I may do that. And then put some of it in a Roth and then put the rest in the brokerage and that's what I'm thinking.

[Ken Coleman]

I love the mix. That's very good too. You know, so. I don't know. I don't know. I just look at all these young people. They're not thinking long term, you know, so. Jason, you're a good man. Thanks. Thanks for the call. You know, it's estimated both worlds, it really is. And again, love that where people can see why that 529 is such a good play because look at that. He's able to do something with that. You're not stuck. People think, oh, what if they don't?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, you're not stuck.

[Ken Coleman]

You're not stuck. It's such a good, good investment. I absolutely love that. All right, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sa.