Hope Always Lives on the Other Side of Hurt

Summary

The Ramsey Show - Episode Summary

Title: Hope Always Lives on the Other Side of Hurt
Date: September 22, 2025
Hosts: Ken Coleman, George Campbell (& Dave Ramsey drop-ins)
Podcast Theme: Building wealth and taking control of your life, no matter your past money mistakes—offering practical and empathetic advice for people in financial crisis, and encouraging hope and resilience through tough personal and financial setbacks.

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Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show centered on the emotional toll and tough realities of financial hardship, with a particular emphasis on perseverance, resetting after devastating losses, and making brave, sometimes painful, financial decisions for long-term peace. Multiple callers, each at a crossroads, sought advice on issues ranging from being scammed out of life savings and facing bankruptcy, to difficult family wealth decisions, burnout from endless side hustles, and regret from past choices. Throughout, Ken Coleman and George Campbell offered tough love, empathy, and actionable roadmaps, underscored by humor and camaraderie.

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Key Calls, Lessons & Segments

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1. Recovering After a Financial Scam (Kathy in Texas)

[00:48 – 09:00]

• Situation:
  Kathy, 68, lost her $487k retirement savings (and her brother’s $110k) in a scam. She’s retired, lives in a paid-off house valued around $400k, but has $33k in debt and little income except $2k/month Social Security.

• Key Points:

  • Filing bankruptcy for $33k consumer debt isn’t warranted.
  • She and her brother both lost—she shouldn’t feel pressured to repay him now.
  • Her immediate focus is survival and seeking employment, even if outside her former field.
  • Selling her house now isn’t recommended—better to attempt survival, work, and only consider selling to downsize if dire.
  • Reverse mortgages are strongly discouraged: "They prey on desperate people." – George Campbell [07:21]

• Memorable Quote:
  "This is the time to go, ‘everybody I know, here’s my story, here’s what’s going on, and this is what I gotta do.’ …We can’t do this on our own." – Ken Coleman [06:10]

• Advice:
  Grieve the loss, be open with your story—shame is common but community is essential. Future plans must be rebuilt step by step, accepting a different retirement vision.

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2. Downsizing for Retirement Turnaround (Chris in Houston)

[10:52 – 20:26]

• Background:
  Chris, 53, lost his retirement savings, has a $73k pool loan, $27k car loan, and a mortgage. Household income is $128k plus DoorDashing, but he’s working 100 hrs/week after a recent heart attack.

• Core Dilemma:
  Should they sell the house to accelerate debt payoff and jumpstart retirement investing, or stay and grind it out?

• Insights/Advice:

  • Sell the car (worth $42k, owes $27k), freeing up $15k cash for debt reduction.
  • Downsizing aggressively is justified at 53 with $0 retirement—reset lifestyle, rent if needed, start fresh.
  • Marshaling their resources this way gives them a fighting chance by 70, rather than grinding and making little progress.
  • George warns: “Selling the house is always the last answer, not my first solution.…It doesn’t actually change the behavior that got us here.” [19:37]

• Memorable Quote:
  “Do you want to be eating Alpo in retirement but have a nice car, or make a short-term sacrifice so you can retire with dignity?” – George Campbell [13:41]

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3. Handling Co-signed Vehicle Loans for Adult Children (Danielle in Ohio)

[23:18 – 28:53]

• Situation:
  Danielle believed she and her husband were debt-free but realized a car loan for their son (in their name) was outstanding.

• Debate:
  Do they revert to Baby Step Two and pay it off from savings, or let their son keep making payments?

• Advice:

  • Technically, they're still in Step 2: “If he stops making payments, it’s on you.” – George Campbell [24:53]
  • Best move is to pay off the debt, then have the son repay them, which removes financial risk and keeps him accountable.
  • Mom and Dad jokingly debate whether to tell "Sparky" it’s paid off so he keeps up with payments.

• Notable Moment/Quote:
  “You are going to be debt-free today.” – George Campbell [28:01]

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4. Should I Raid Retirement to Pay Off Debt? (Rex in Houston)

[29:03 – 31:42]

• Situation:
  Rex, 66, has $1.1M in IRA, $200k in 401k, $300k in debt (including mortgage, school, cars, credit cards).

• Advice:

  • Paying off debt from retirement could make sense if they redirect all freed-up cash flow into investments.
  • Be mindful of taxes from drawing down pre-tax accounts.
  • Consider knocking out consumer debt first, then address mortgage.

• Memorable Quote:
  “If you take that $4,500 [of now-freed payments] and start investing it from 66 to 71, you’d end up with $348k—so you will have more money than this debt was costing you.” – George Campbell [30:52]

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5. Should We Rent or Buy in a New City? (John in Kentucky)

[33:12 – 42:07]

• Background:
  John (32), newly promoted, expecting a child, wondering whether to buy a home right away or rent first in Colorado.

• Discussion & Advice:

  • Pay off wife’s $10k car loan from savings immediately; will still have robust emergency fund.
  • With a stellar income ($17k–$22k/month), not urgent to buy—renting for a year or two is wise to get to know the area.
  • Don't touch 401k to buy a house.
  • George runs the math: $500k home with $100k down on a 15-year fixed loan gives a very safe payment ratio.
  • Strong encouragement to be patient: "You are doing absolutely phenomenal…you’re way ahead." – Ken Coleman [42:07]

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6. Navigating End-of-Life Pet Expenses on a Tight Budget (Jennifer in Ohio)

[44:11 – 48:13]

• Scenario:
  Jennifer, working hard on $50k debt, must put down her 17-year-old dog. She agonizes over spending $240 to get her dog’s ashes back vs. just $40 for a group cremation.

• Hosts' Response:
  Give yourself permission to grieve and spend on this. “Spend the $240. You're not being irresponsible.” – George Campbell [47:08]

  • Suggests side hustling to “pay herself back” if guilty.

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7. Feeling Burned Out by a Lifetime of Hustle (Sarah in Minneapolis – First-ever Ramsey Video Call)

[65:02 – 74:20]

• Situation:
  Sarah has hustled 70–100 hours/week for 7 years to pay off $85k student debt, but burnout and exhaustion dominate.

• Discussion:

  • Emotionally, she’s overwhelmed—her boyfriend is supportive, but the strain is immense.
  • Ken and George strongly advise she pause on the side hustles, focus on the logistics career, and pursue promotion for sustainable higher income.
  • “If we can double your income and get you working 40, 50 hours, we solve the problem.” – George Campbell [73:05]
  • Taking a break could improve her promotability and emotional wellbeing.

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8. Overcoming Emotional Spending Triggers (Amber in Georgia)

[75:14 – 84:40]

• Backstory:
  Amber, recently diagnosed with PTSD and bipolar disorder, struggles to stick to a budget due to a history of deprivation, financial trauma, and repeated bankruptcies.

• Advice:

  • Affirmation of her resilience and effort: “You are a strong person.” – Ken Coleman [78:05]
  • Assign her the “EveryDollar” app for budgeting, which will coach her through the tough spots.
  • “You have to make getting out of debt and…a better spot the priority before anything else.” – George Campbell [83:19]

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9. Single Mom Preparing for Job Uncertainty (Cindy in Ohio)

[86:05 – 91:00]

• Background:
  Cindy, single, has a six-month emergency fund and is ready to start investing, but her company was bought and may lay off employees.

• Advice:

  • She’s in great shape: $35k in savings, $300k in her retirement account, $136k income.
  • Move forward with investing—the severance would be over $100k if let go.
  • Encouragement to start networking and building professional connections as “emergency exits.”

• Notable Quotes:

  • “You will be a Baby Steps millionaire if you just keep following this path.” – George Campbell [90:04]
  • “Your connections are the flotation device!” – Ken Coleman [93:40]

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10. Family Wealth, Stepchildren, and Special Needs Trusts (Caitlyn in Texas)

[54:35 – 63:12]

• Summary:
  Caitlyn’s husband wants to leave 20% of his 401k to his adult daughter (from a previous marriage), which frustrates her—her concern is for their special-needs son and her own security.

• Discussion:

  • Ken reframes her frustration: “If this daughter was your biological daughter, would you feel the same way?”
  • George encourages moving to logic and open, honest dialogue, not just emotion: “I want to see the numbers to know our son will be taken care of.” [60:37]
  • Advice: Focus on trust, ensure the son’s special needs trust is funded, and strive for unity rather than resentment.

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11. Small Business Owner: Cash Flow, Emergency Funds, and Paying Off Debt (Joseph the plumber in KY)

[95:26 – 103:17]

• Scenario:
  Joseph, a solopreneur plumber, asks if he should have a separate business emergency fund and whether to pay off van/equipment loans.

• Key Points:

  • Business should have reserves but not necessarily equal to 6 months’ personal expenses.
  • Always pay off business debt, regardless of tax write-offs—cash flow and risk reduction are king.
  • Joseph is exemplary: Started plumbing at 46, now makes $250k a year solo after a few years and no student debt.
  • “The trades are exploding.…It may be a little dirty during the day, but you can come home to Egyptian cotton sheets.” – Ken Coleman [103:31]

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Highlighted Quotes

• On Shame and Community:
  “This is the time to go, ‘everybody I know, here’s my story.’…We can’t do this on our own.”
  — Ken Coleman [06:10]

• On Aggressiveness in Retirement Recovery:
  “Do you want to eat Alpo in retirement and have a nice car, or make a short-term sacrifice so you can retire with dignity?”
  — George Campbell [13:41]

• On Permission to Grieve:
  “You’re never going to look back and go 'dang it, why did I spend that $240 on Ulysses [the dog]?'”
  — George Campbell [47:08]

• On Young High Earners:
  “You are absolutely doing a phenomenal job providing for your wife and future family. You are way ahead.”
  — Ken Coleman [42:07]

• On Emotional Spending:
  “You have to make getting out of debt and getting to a better spot the priority before anything else.”
  — George Campbell [83:19]

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Important Timestamps

• [00:48] – Kathy’s scam and rebuilding retirement
• [10:52] – Chris’s aggressive debt-payoff/retirement reset plan
• [23:18] – Vehicle loan for adult child—are we really debt free?
• [29:14] – Should Rex cash out 401k/IRA to pay debt?
• [33:12] – John: Buy or rent in new city with promotion?
• [44:11] – Pet loss and justifying a small cremation expense
• [65:02] – Sarah, video caller, at the limits of debt-hustle burnout
• [75:14] – Amber and sticking to a budget after trauma/bankruptcy
• [86:05] – Cindy the single mom: how to prepare for possible layoffs
• [54:35] – Caitlyn’s blended-family inheritance question
• [95:26] – Business owner Joseph: the path from the trades to wealth

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Tone & Style

• Empathetic and Direct: The hosts are unyielding on tough love but consistently reinforce the need for self-forgiveness and community.
• Practical: Step-by-step solutions: budget, baby steps, downsize, talk to a pro, network now.
• Conversational and Encouraging: Personal stories (including about their own dogs), laughter, and repeated affirmations of callers’ worth and strength.
• Humorous: Playful banter between Ken and George, especially about car shopping and the nature of the financial industry.

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Final Takeaway

This episode is a masterclass in resilient financial decision-making amid heartbreak, burnout, and old regrets. Whatever the financial wound, hope and a brighter outlook are possible on the other side of courageous honesty, humility, and proactive steps. The Ramsey crew models both the gentle and the tough push necessary to spark change—and stands as a reminder that anyone can walk toward peace with the right blend of practical playbook, community, and self-respect.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Ken Coleman]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. We're thrilled to have you with us. The phone number to jump in on the conversation today is 888-5225. You ready to go, partner?

[George Campbell]

I am ecstatic.

[Ken Coleman]

I see you got your really fancy denim jacket on today.

[George Campbell]

I saved the best for you.

[Ken Coleman]

I appreciate you cleaning up. Let's go to Kathy in Texas. Kathy, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm 68 years old, and six months ago, I got involved with an online investment group. I eventually borrowed $50,000 from my brother. He invested 110. I retired from my company. I took out all my 401k and pension. And last month they ghosted us and froze our accounts and we lost it all. I lost 487,000. My brother lost the 50 I borrowed and the 110 he invested. And my brother would like his money.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, boy.

[Caller]

And I have house that's paid off. I live in Texas, so I have a homestead on it. I have a $30,000 loan from American Express. So I'm wondering, do I file bankruptcy?

Do.

I tried to get a reverse mortgage, but my house. My husband died, so my house is not in good enough condition. I'm just lost, okay?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, absolutely. Not only you lost. I'm guessing you're just emotionally stunned. You know, that's an unbelievable. Yeah. I'm so sorry.

[George Campbell]

Is this scam still out there?

[Caller]

It probably is. I filed with, you know, FBI and all the agencies, but they didn't have.

A whole lot of hope for me.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, it's rare that in these situations you get your money back. So how much debt total do you have right now? You said you have 30k on an American Express card, right?

[Caller]

That was a loan. The other two are 2,000, maybe 3,000 total. So 33,000.

[Ken Coleman]

So 33,000. And I know you retired recently.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

What is your. What is the future look like as far as work? Because that's. We absolutely have to consider that right now.

[Caller]

Oh, I know. I've been applying, but like I said, I'm 68. I've had my job for 36 years. I did sales, so I can do that. But I'm, you know.

[Ken Coleman]

How long have you been out of the workforce?

[Caller]

Since May. End of May.

[Ken Coleman]

What about your past company? Have we called them up and told them what's going on.

[Caller]

My job. Once you quit, you're gone. I'm easily replaceable.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

Wow.

[George Campbell]

Well, bankruptcy, you know, it will clear the American Express debt, but I don't think it's worth bankruptcy over this. Yeah, because you just. You lost your retirement money. You're not going to get that back.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And the pension as well. So you took the pension out as a lump sum, used that in the investment course, took, cashed out every dime of your retirement and threw it into this course.

[Caller]

Correct. All I have is $2,000 a month. Social Security.

[George Campbell]

Now, what is your Social Security.

[Caller]

Make? 2,000amonth.

[Ken Coleman]

And then what was the other thing you were about to mention? 500 something.

[Caller]

I promised my brother $500 a month.

[George Campbell]

Well, the promises are over. I mean, you don't have money.

[Caller]

Sorry.

[Ken Coleman]

Brother's on his own.

[George Campbell]

We. You both got screwed in this, and so you just simply don't have the money to pay him back.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, he got you into this, if I heard you correctly.

[Caller]

No, I got him. And.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. It doesn't matter.

[Caller]

Due diligence.

[Ken Coleman]

It doesn't matter. That was just me kind of being on Team Kathy, so I misunderstood. But, no, you can't take care of brother. Brothers got to take care of himself. You both. You both made a poor decision, and. And now we got to figure out.

[George Campbell]

You were in what the bank call a risky borrower, and so you borrowed this money. And he knew full well he might never see it again.

[Caller]

He had. He had faith in me. And sure, I've never disappointed him before.

[George Campbell]

Well, I hope you can pay him back one day, but it's not today. You're not going to be making him payments because you got to put food on the table.

[Ken Coleman]

Can you live off of 2000amonth?

[Caller]

My. My bills really are $800 a month plus food, and then my homeowner's insurance. And.

[George Campbell]

So all in. What does it take to run your house for a month? Include food, include HOA. Every single little thing.

[Caller]

Pretty much 2000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So you're just gonna hopefully survive, and that's where getting a job is gonna come into play.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen, I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna jump in real quick on the job thing, because I think coming off of something this emotionally difficult, one of the best things you can do is get to work. Now, I understand that you have been applying, but I think you're going to have to take some opportunities that you wouldn't normally think about. Now, I mean, that's maybe Starbucks, Walmart, Target. I mean you're functional, you're a former salesperson. We need income and if we can get some benefits out of that. So I mean you're doing everything you can and your number one goal right now is to tell everybody your story. Now this is very difficult. I understand what I'm saying. I completely understand what I'm asking you to do, which is to share your story. It is a thing that is going to be difficult because you're ashamed and I understand that. But you aren't the only person who has been duped before. And I think a 60 year old lady who's a good person who has lived her life well, this is where we can't do this on our own. We cannot, Kathy, do this on our own. I mean we. No advice that George and I will give you is going to alleviate that fact. This is the time to go, everybody I know, here's my story, here's what's going on and this is what I got to do. And I think that there's nothing wrong with that because you need some kind souls to go. I'm going to help Kathy and I'm going to give Kathy a job. That's what has to happen right now.

[George Campbell]

What is your house worth?

[Caller]

Probably 350 for a flipper. It's on paper.

[George Campbell]

What do you mean for a flipper?

[Caller]

You know, if somebody came in and wanted to flip it and make some quick.

[George Campbell]

I'm saying if you listed it on the MLS on the market with a real estate agent, what could you get for it?

[Caller]

Well, I asked and they said 375 to 425.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so your house is worth about $400,000. I would keep it for now, try to stay afloat, try to get a job. And there's a worst case scenario here where five years from now, if you're out of options, you're unable to work for some reason, you could sell the house, downsize and invest the difference to try to create a little bit of a nest egg.

[Caller]

Well, that was why I was going to do the reverse mortgage route.

[George Campbell]

No, I mean they will just screw you with all the fees. You're going to lose all of the equity in your home. You know, it's a terrible, horrible financial product and they prey on desperate people like our friend Kathy to try to get them into these.

[Ken Coleman]

Kathy, I'm going to ask a question to George on your behalf very quickly. George, I agree with what you said about the house, but I'm sitting here going, if I'M in her shoes at 68, I wonder if it's not a. Is it a feasible idea to not sell the house now and take the entire proceeds and get that back in the retirement accounts to try to grow over the next five years? As you said that, I just. What do you, what are your thoughts?

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I mean, that was my, my initial thought was, could we just liquidate the house, invest every penny of it and live off of the growth? There is risk there because we don't know what the market's going to do.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't want her to live off of it.

[George Campbell]

We don't know how long it'll last. So that's why I want to see right now, can we create enough income and then use that, play that card later on down the road when necessary, instead of just going to that route and then not working at all?

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Campbell]

That's my fear. So. Kathy, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I wish I had a magic wand and can just get these scammers to give you your money back. But the relationship with your brother, it's not going to be the same. The future you had, the retirement you dreamed of, it's not going to be the same. So you've got to grieve what was and just create a realistic picture of what comes next. Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

It's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

[George Campbell]

And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling.

[Dave Ramsey]

I've trusted Jeff, Zander, and Zander insurance for over 25 years, and so has my family.

[George Campbell]

So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Dave Ramsey]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, Chris is up next in Houston, Texas. Chris, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Well, Ken, yours. Thanks for taking my call today. You're my favorite combo.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, wow. We will send you a check. Kelly, make sure we pay the man.

[George Campbell]

Make it a Venmo.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, Venmo. Make it easier.

[George Campbell]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Thank you, Chris.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Appreciate that. What's going on?

[Caller]

Okay, so my wife and I are really concerned, really, right now about our future retirement. So just a little background. Don't have anything saved. Don't have three to six months expenses. Just started doing the Ramsey steps. I'm on baby step two. So we're talking about selling our home to get the equity out of it, to basically just pay everything off and just kind of start fresh and be able to put some money back and then start investing 15% like the random step says. But I'm not sure if that's the right answer to do that or not. The other option is I keep working like a madman like I've been doing. Keep the house. But we have a pool, and I don't know if that should be, like, included, like, with the mortgage payment. You know, they're separate or that's considered consumer debt. With our car note.

[Ken Coleman]

Hmm.

[George Campbell]

How big is the pool loan?

[Caller]

The pool loan is 73,000.

[George Campbell]

And what's your household income?

[Caller]

About 8,200amonth after taxes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, what about before? Just give me the GROSS Household income.

[Caller]

128. Okay.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. I would put it up there with your mortgage since it's over half of your annual income. We kind of treat that like a. Like a second mortgage at that point. And so I would focus on a consumer debt first. How much is all that add up to?

[Caller]

Well, we paid off all the credit cards, which is about 16 grand. Now we have. All we have left, besides the pool, is a card, which is about $27,000.

[George Campbell]

What's the car worth?

[Caller]

42.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I know what we're doing there. George, tell him what he's won.

[George Campbell]

You just won $15,000, my friend. That's the difference. If you sold that car and took the proceeds and got something cash, you just freed up a payment and became consumer debt free.

[Ken Coleman]

And let's stay right there. Chris, how much is that car payment?

[Caller]

It's 500amonth.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so we just found you 15,000 in cash and we then sent you six grand a year of net income. Hello.

[George Campbell]

See that magic trick right there?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And we still have a place to rest our head that we can call our own.

[Ken Coleman]

So what you won is a cheaper car. That's what you want.

[George Campbell]

Now what is the, what's the mortgage?

[Caller]

My wife wins.

[Ken Coleman]

But what's that. Say that again.

[Caller]

Unfortunately, that's what my wife wins.

[Ken Coleman]

Is she, Is she on board with this?

[Caller]

She is if that's what we have to do.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, it is what you have to do.

[George Campbell]

Well, here's the thing. Do you want to be eating Alpo in retirement but have a nice car, or do we want to make a short term sacrifice so we can retire with dignity? That's the trade off here.

[Caller]

Wow.

[George Campbell]

We're not trying to punish you.

[Ken Coleman]

Right to the dog food.

[George Campbell]

That was dark and it's. Honestly, dog food's not cheap. I take that back.

[Ken Coleman]

I tell you, my dogs eat really good food.

[George Campbell]

It's going to be ramen, I guess.

[Ken Coleman]

But you know, Chris, the reason I'm saying you guys have to do this is because you're 53 and you don't have any retirement. So we have got now. Now this is where George is like, I love, I love when George. Oh, I see him, I'm crunching. I wish you could see him right now. He's already got, he does the one hand keyboard thing. He's got the Ramsey investment calcul, which you can [e-mail]. so the reason we're going to be super aggressive here is because you guys can catch, you can start to make headway. But we're talking, we gotta sell the car and it lists today and we have got to change. So let's, let's run the numbers. George?

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Are you guys in pretty good health?

[Caller]

So that's a good question. So I had a heart attack back in March and I've changed a lot. My health has gotten a lot better for sure. I'm going to test all that stuff right now. And so, so that kind of leads me to, you know, I've been, you know, I work my regular job, which I work 50 plus hours at I've been doordashing on the side about another 50 hours a week. Wow. Which is a lot because I'm working every single day from morning to night.

[Ken Coleman]

How long you've been doing the doordashing?

[Caller]

I've been doing the doordashing now for about three months.

[Ken Coleman]

Did you include that?

[Caller]

Credit cards.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, good for you. Did you include that though in the number you gave us on the 128,000 gross?

[Caller]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

No, I did not. Because I don't know how long I can sustain that because I'm working every Saturday, only I'm taking off is a Sunday. That's it.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And what about your wife?

[Caller]

My wife works as well. She works full time. Her, her money is including that number as well.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And what are you guys doing for work? Is there area for growth here?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm in sales. I mean, there's potential for commission. I just started a new job.

[George Campbell]

Amazing.

[Ken Coleman]

Right now, Chris, that is far better than Uber. Forget Uber.

[George Campbell]

Number one, spend 50 hours on the phones and email selling.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'm no doctor. I would like to play one on tv. I want to point that out.

[George Campbell]

And he would make a great one.

[Ken Coleman]

I think I would look good in scrubs. But the point here is, is that you're better. Your, your health and the financial ROI for you is way better to go after that commission. But even at the 128. George, let's paint a picture here. If we sell the car, so we come up with 15 cash. So we got 15 George to work with.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, you take that 15, you buy yourself a used cash car. There we go. And then you're debt free. Now we can work on the emergency fund. So for the next, let's call it six to eight months, just stack away cash to build up that emergency fund. Then we can begin investing. So let's just paint a picture. A year from now, you're 54, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And you're debt free with an emergency fund. And we begin investing 15% of our income. That's about 1600 bucks a month. Are you tracking.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

By the age of 70. Now this is assuming you're going to have to work longer because we got a late start. You would have $750,000 likely in that one account. Now we're talking. Okay, we could. If we have a paid for house and 750 grand in the bank, we have a fighting chance of surviving right now.

[Ken Coleman]

What that doesn't include, Chris, is those commissions and more income socking it away.

[George Campbell]

What's left on the mortgage, what's the balance?

[Caller]

370.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And how many years left on the mortgage?

[Caller]

Took out a 30 year note when we bought the house. I still have 26 years on it.

[Ken Coleman]

What's it worth?

[Caller]

That's why we're talking about selling the house.

[Ken Coleman]

What can you get for the house?

[Caller]

About 600.

[Ken Coleman]

So that would. You'd walk away with roughly what?

[Caller]

When I look at the numbers, I think I would walk away with about 180. But then paying off the car in the pool, that leave me with about 100. I think I have to put.

[George Campbell]

No pun intended.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

I see what you did.

[Caller]

And.

But then with the pool, I mean, I'm sorry, what would I have left? Would be about 20% on the house, which only leave me with about $11,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

But towards the three to six months expenses, I. Yeah, I like.

[Ken Coleman]

It's aggressive. Allows you to start with the emergency fund immediately and start investing and you guys can downsize. It's just the two of you?

[Caller]

No, we have two, two more kids @ home. But you know, they're, they're older, so they're fine at some point.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. They, they, they live where we tell them to live. George, what do you think about this? I'm actually leaning towards this. I like this move.

[George Campbell]

I'm trying to think what would you go rent somewhere for a while and just keep stacking cash? Because you're not gonna be able to afford anything for 180.

[Caller]

Well.

[George Campbell]

And that doesn't pay off.

[Caller]

We would need to go fight. We would have to. Well, if we sold it for 600, I think I like. We sold it for 600 today. I could pay off the pool and the car and be able to end up with about. After I put 20% down on a house on a 15 year note, I think I would have about $11,000 left and then it'd be quicker there. Then I start, you know, saving for retirement. As soon as I get that built up.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, you're just, you're gonna be back to having a giant mortgage is my fear. With today's rates and today's prices. So that's the part you have to weigh. I would crunch those numbers heavily. I just. Selling a house is always the last answer, not my first solution. Because number one, it doesn't actually change the behavior that got us here. It just feels like a get out of jail free card and it kind of moves you backwards. Instead of building equity and, and getting that house paid off, now we're liquidating and starting from scratch again. And in our 50s. And so I would, I wouldn't, I would hesitate before just jumping on that. But I love the idea of you guys getting debt free faster, having more to retire with, but you would also have to go, we're going to downsize our lifestyle and change. I don't like the idea of you just keeping everything going. Well, we're going to keep the car, keep the pool, keep living how we're living and get the cake too. And so you're going to have to make some deep sacrifice.

[Caller]

Agreed. And I feel like if we keep the house, then I just don't see an insight how we could pay off the house eventually. I just feel like with the income where it's at, even if I go up another 20, 30,000, I just don't see how I pay off the house.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. George, I'm going to tell you, I like the aggressive approach here. I rarely disagree with you, but I like where he's at to reset. Even if they've got a rent at this stage for a couple of years, I think a reset to try to really get focused on retirement investing. I don't know. It's aggressive, but I like it.

[George Campbell]

It's a reset for sure. Best of luck, my friend.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you've listened to me for more than five minutes, you know that being normal with your money is not a good thing. Because normal is broke. And I want you to be weird. That's why I love what we're doing with Fairwinds Credit Union. Our friends at Fairwinds just launched a brand new Ramsey debit card and it says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. I love that because every time you swipe it, you're choosing to live differently with no credit card payments and no debt. You see, Fairwinds has been helping people like you ditch debt faster and build wealth for years. They're not trying to shove credit cards or auto loans in your face like the big banks do. And they've worked with us to create the smart bundle for Ramsey fans. It includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account to supercharge your emergency fund, and now the Ramsey debit card to help you stay focused on the baby steps. We're excited for you to try it. So check them out [e-mail] that's fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, if you died tomorrow, how would your family keep the lights on? How would they pay the mortgage? How will they afford just the basics like groceries. If anybody in Your life depends on your income. You need life insurance. Life insurance has one function and that is to replace your income if you die. Term life insurance is the only kind of insurance that does that. Others like whole or permanent life insurance, try to add the investing angle to it and it's just a bad product. So here's what you need. Life insurance policy that is worth 10 to 12 times your annual income for a term length of 15 to 20 years. And it should be a level policy meaning the premium stays the same. If you'd like more info on this and some actual resources, use our free term life insurance guide. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com term lifeguard that's LifeGuide. Excuse me. Ramsey Solutions.com term lifeguide Danielle is up in Cleveland, Ohio. Danielle, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Oh, hi. How are you doing today? Thank you so much for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

So my question is whether we are on baby step two or six. Reason being is.

[Ken Coleman]

Is this a trick question?

[George Campbell]

The riddle wrapped in a rhyme?

[Caller]

It really is. Truly. We were all excited. We were debt free. We were baby step six right now. So all we have left is our mortgage. We didn't take into consideration that we do actually have a vehicle loan out for our son who is paying it, but it is in our name. So does that mean that we go back to baby step two? Should we consider going ahead and paying the loan off while still making him responsible for it or continue on with putting everything towards our mortgage as we have been?

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have the cash to pay it off today?

[Caller]

Well, so we have our emergency fund, our, you know, six month emergency fund. And so we were thinking that if that loan puts us back to baby step two, that technically we should use that to pay it off and then we hurry up and, you know, rebuild our six month.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, George, tell her. George.

[George Campbell]

What's left on the loan?

[Caller]

18,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And is he making payments right now or are you guys making the payments?

[Caller]

No, we do not make the payments. He makes the car payments, the car insurance, all of that. The loan just happens to be in our name.

[George Campbell]

Well, you owe the money. If he stops making payments, it's on you. So it's your debt even if someone else is currently making the payment. And I hope he continues to make the payment. And due to the honorable thing, what if is he making the payment directly to the lender or is he sending you guys the money and you, you may actually do the transaction?

[Caller]

Yeah, we make the transaction. We actually. He gives us the money, we make the payments.

[George Campbell]

I'm just Wondering if you guys paid it off, but you make him continue to make payments to you guys. That sort of gives him the responsibility of what he said he would do, which is make the car payments while absolving you guys of the risk, the debt, all of that and the interest.

[Caller]

So that's kind of the way we were leaning. Same thoughts. Because at the end of the day, we do have. Even if it fell on us, if for some reason something happened and he stopped making the payments, we have the money to pay it. We just weren't sure if we should go ahead and use emergency fund and then go ahead and rebuild that, which we could do in about two months.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. What's in savings right now?

[Caller]

So we have 25 in our six month emergency fund and then we have a couple other accounts with, you know, like let's say five thousand in one and a couple thousand in the other.

Okay.

But we have no. We have no other debt other than our mortgage. So really all. Most of our money is thinking funds and then paying extra on our mortgage to get debt paid off.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, I mean, if we're going to talk semantics in the baby steps, you are in baby step two and we would consider this. You know where you're going to liquidate your savings to pay off any debt, just like we would tell anyone in baby step two, and you'll rebuild it really fast. I would have him continue to make the payments unless you just go, hey, bud, you're off the hook. You know, Congratulations. Mom and dad just wanted to be generous early inheritance for you.

[Caller]

We want him to be responsible. We're trying to now get him in Ramsey program and started him a Roth. And we want him to do the responsible thing, which would be to pay for his vehicle.

[George Campbell]

Good. Well, if you want the truly responsible thing, it's the discipline to actually save up and pay cash for his next car. And so just making payments has left a lot of people broke.

[Caller]

Agreed. Yes.

[George Campbell]

So it's an. It's an honorable thing that you guys have followed the steps. And I would talk to him, you know, I don't know when, but say, hey, this was a mistake. We. We want to do everything with cash. We don't want to owe people money. It's going to free us up mentally, emotionally, financially, and we wish the same for you.

[Caller]

Oh, I have to tell you, George, if we could go back in time, if we were.

[George Campbell]

I want to sing. If I could turn back time.

[Ken Coleman]

Please do it.

[Caller]

I won't.

[George Campbell]

FCC will come down on us hard.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

They've been very busy lately, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I see what you did there, too. Right out of the headlines.

[George Campbell]

We're having a good time.

[Ken Coleman]

You are on it today, but I didn't know you watched the news.

[George Campbell]

To be honest, I try to keep up. There's so much. Yeah, I'm trying to help, Danielle. I'm trying to keep up with the news. Well, Danielle, I'm so happy for you guys. You're going to be debt free today.

[Caller]

Oh, I know.

[George Campbell]

Good day.

[Caller]

I have to tell you, I know you guys hear this a lot, but you are my favorite duo, and I really appreciate all of your advice and how helpful you all are.

[Ken Coleman]

That's so kind. By the way, if anyone's keeping score, that's two for Ken and George today.

[George Campbell]

If we get three, we get a race.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that right? Oh, okay. Let's milk that. Okay.

[George Campbell]

Oh, that's a great question from Daniel.

[Ken Coleman]

It is actually a really good question, Danielle, and I don't know if you caught it. She said they could rebuild their emergency fund in three months. So really the absolute best move right here. But you got to tell Sparky, you know? Yeah, you got to tell him.

[George Campbell]

Well, you don't tell him because then he goes, wait, mom and dad aren't making.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm actually glad you said that because I wonder, do you tell.

[George Campbell]

Is it deceitful? I don't. That part is. The ethical part of me goes, I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

I kind of like good philosophical. I don't think it's deceitful.

[George Campbell]

What about chart?

[Ken Coleman]

They pay rent, a loan off. They pay it off. He's paying them anyway. They don't have to tell him.

[George Campbell]

Exactly. That was my thinking.

[Ken Coleman]

Regardless, to your point, it puts him in attempt to kind of a temptation situation where he's like, oh, mom and dad paid it off, and I'm gonna flake out and put their love to the test.

[George Campbell]

Maybe I'll miss a payment this month.

[Ken Coleman]

I hope Sparky's listening. I might be reading his mail. I might be reading his mail. Yeah, Rex is up next in Houston, Texas. Rex, how can we help?

[Caller]

Yes, I just have a question. 66 years old, still working, have a 401k IRA. And my question is, should I take money out of my IRA or 401k to pay off my existing debt?

[George Campbell]

How much do you have in the retirement accounts and how much debt do you have?

[Caller]

IRA is 1.1. The 401k is 200,000. That's about 300,000.

[George Campbell]

What kind of debt?

[Caller]

That's including my Mortgage, a school loan, personal loan, cars and credit card.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow, you got a little full bucket there.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. At 66, I would want to simplify my life. And so you would deplete 300,000 out of your 1.3. So it would bring you down to a million.

[Caller]

Somewhere around there. Yes.

[George Campbell]

I like this plan because here's what it does. It frees up all of those payments. So if you added all of those payments up, the mortgage, the consumer debts, what would that be every single month?

[Caller]

It's about $4,500.

[George Campbell]

Now could you then invest that exact amount? Could you promise me in America that you would do that?

[Caller]

We were pretty close. I mean right Now I put 10% from a paycheck into my 401k and an additional 5% into savings.

[George Campbell]

So here's my thinking. Are you going to work for another five years per se or what's your plan?

[Caller]

Yeah, the plan is, is to. I'm not taking Social Security either right now. So I'm going to wait till 70. Take Social Security plan is to work to 72. Wow.

[George Campbell]

Well, I did some math for you. If you take that 4,500 bucks and you start investing it from 66 to 71, you would end up with 348. So you will have more money than this debt was costing you.

[Caller]

Okay. And also if I take it out of there, of course I don't have a penalty being 66, but I am in the high tax bracket, so.

[George Campbell]

You are. It's all in traditional. So you would pay taxes on that?

[Caller]

Yes. Traditional ira.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I would sit down with a tax pro or a smartvestor pro. You can jump on ramseysolutions.com crunch some numbers and see, hey, maybe I knock out consumer debts this year and the mortgage next year and try to minimize some of the the tax damage. But either way you're going to be debt free real soon. My friend and I would consider maybe.

[Ken Coleman]

Selling these cars if we have some equity in these cars. Let's, let's not rob from ourselves. Let's, let's have some discipline on that.

[George Campbell]

Minimize the damage.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Thanks for the call, Rex.

[George Campbell]

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to John in Kentucky. John, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, how are you guys?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. How are you, sir?

[Caller]

Blessed. Blessed. Just a quick question. I recently was promoted and with the expectations of moving out in Colorado and the job's been great and I'm trying to find out either a what kind of home price I should be looking at to make sure that when my wife we have our first child, she can work from home or just not work at all, or if I should end up renting for a year or two to be able to put down a lot more on the home.

[George Campbell]

Great question. Okay, lay out some numbers for us.

[Caller]

Yeah, so currently I'm in sales, but minimum is usually about 17k per month. Some months it's really great up to 30, but it's usually between 17 to 22,000 for my income.

[George Campbell]

Amazing.

[Caller]

Hers is about 5k per month, but we're expecting to bring her home after the first child.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so we'll just remove that income from the equation. And you're going, hey, how much house can I afford if I make about 20k a month?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay, and what are you looking at right now? What price range?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we're looking between 300 to 500,000. But I've also been speaking with a realtor about trying to find an assumable loan. I do have the option for va, which would definitely help with lowering that monthly income or the monthly home price.

[George Campbell]

Well, what it'll do is just allow you to get in with less equity, less down payment. And so that part worries me, especially for a guy making this kind of money. Are you guys not in a good financial position? Do you have debt?

[Caller]

No, I spent the last few months paying off all. Any credit cards, anything like that? She has a car loan that has a little less than 10k. I've got about 35,000 in the savings, about 20 to 25 that I could access through the 401k. And then with sales I should be expecting another 15 to 25,000 before we decide to pull the trigger.

[Ken Coleman]

John, are you familiar with our baby steps?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so when you tell us you have 35,000 sitting over in savings and your wife is carrying a $10,000 car loan, what do you think we're thinking.

[Caller]

To get that paid off immediately?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So this is fun. I love when someone else knows what we're going to say. So the question I have is, what is keeping you from doing that, knowing that that's what we were going to tell you to do?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's a great question. One of the things that I've been thinking about is with her coming home, is it worth paying off the car now or is it worth making sure that I have the emergency fund saved up in case something ever happened to me or the job? That we would have a nest egg to then make decisions on finding a new job or going from there.

[Ken Coleman]

When is she coming home?

[Caller]

We are trying now. So nine to 12 months.

[Ken Coleman]

You get what I'm saying here? I already knew the answer. You don't know when she's coming home?

[Caller]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

You guys, she's not even pregnant.

[Caller]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

And so I'm adjusting these numbers to what you gave me. You guys, you immediately, in laying out the numbers for George, you discounted her 5k a month. That actually takes your range of income between 22 and 27, not 17 and 22. To George's point, you're rolling, buddy. And so getting up a really good down payment is not going to take long with those numbers. Am I right, George?

[George Campbell]

Yeah. And you have a lot of flexibility with your level of income. Well, our parameter is no more than a quarter of your take home pay going towards this mortgage. And that includes the principal, the interest, the property taxes, all of that, the homeowner's insurance. And so with your income, if you bought a $500,000 house with 100,000 down, with a 15 year fix, you'd likely be looking at a payment of about 3,750amonth, which is very reasonable if you consistently make 17 or 20k a month. Agreed.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Having a down payment of that, could you save up 100 grand over the next 12 months?

[Caller]

Yeah, easily. I guess I should have mentioned there is an expectation of moving out there before February, March timeframe. So that's kind of the thing. I'm.

[George Campbell]

Where's the expectation coming from?

[Caller]

From taking the promotion.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but you don't have to buy a house just because you're taking the job.

[Caller]

Correct. And that's.

[Ken Coleman]

I rented for two years with three kids when I moved here, 11 years ago, I rented a very much smaller house because we wanted for us, it wasn't just the financial, it was. I didn't want to make a massive decision like that about where my kids were going to be until I knew the area. So I love this question, John, and I say this, I want you to feel older brother vibes here. Okay. I love how planning and how intense you are and all this stuff. But dude, take a deep breath. You have no idea how quickly you guys are going to get pregnant. And you can pay off her car today as soon as you hang up the phone, you still have 25 in cash. And between the money you guys have.

[George Campbell]

25, another 25k is going to slip through your hands in the next 30 days.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So I wouldn't be worried about the emergency. You're going to be stacking up cash so fast, especially once this car payment's gone, which I know it's not a lot compared relatively to your income, but I would just be stacking cash and.

[Ken Coleman]

For life, rent, rent, rent, until you guys get planted in this new place because they're a young couple. How long you been married?

[Caller]

Less than a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, good heavens. You guys are just learning how to be married.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

How old are you, John?

[Caller]

32.

[Ken Coleman]

32, yeah. Man, like this is exciting. This call is great.

[George Campbell]

And then you mentioned, you mentioned the 401k. Never touch that retirement account if you're not 59 and a half. You're essentially taking on a loan for 35% by cashing that out early. So I would just leave that money alone. You have a great income. Go rent in February in that new city, sign a six or nine month lease, and by this time next year you're going to have a hundred thousand dollars in a down payment account.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And you can get a half million dollar home. And it's going to be so peaceful to do it slow and steady instead of rushing into all this at once. Especially when you're bringing a baby into this world, man, that just adds a whole other layer of stress and nesting. And so you don't want to be moving while she's eight and a half months pregnant.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And just, and to that point, I just want to give you one other little encouragement. Even if she got pregnant tomorrow and the baby's, I mean, the income, if you have no debt and the income you have, you're fine, you'll build up the emergency. But that 35, you're gonna replenish that you've got more than enough to take Care of this baby. All right? So I love your earnest intensity. I really do. You're a sharp young guy. You're. You're in good shape. Good shape.

[Caller]

I appreciate it.

[Ken Coleman]

Just breathe, man. You know.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's been the, the tough part is just trying to make sure, you know, in introducing your family that I do everything right.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, buddy, I, I'm gonna tell you something. You're a poster child. I mean, you are, you are just a, you know, if you look up fine young man in the dictionary. Nobody uses that terminology except people that are young man. Well, I'm 51, folks. That's. We have a, we have an expanded vocabulary. All right. Can I get some love in the lobby? You've heard, you've used the phrase if I've ever seen what it is. No, that was a nice par putt Clap is what that was. Respectable. But you listen, John, you are absolutely doing a phenomenal job of providing for you, your wife, your future family. You are way ahead. George, just to put you on the spot because you're in the numbers on this particular stuff more than I am. The average 32 year old. If you were going to make something up, an educated guess versus John, to encourage John and also to paint the picture for other people to be in his spot, what would you say? The average 32 year old dude, his financial picture looks like in America, probably.

[George Campbell]

Has a big truck that's about 700 bucks, probably still has his student loans, probably still fooling with credit cards and probably making 4 to 5,000amonth, not 20,000amonth. This picture, I'm just like, this kid is going places. He just got to tweak a few things and have a little bit of patience. But he's going to be catapulted when he's making 20 grand a month, no debt, with a reasonable house payment, which means he's going to pay that house off early. Mom's going to be at home, not stressed, taking care of the baby, raising the family. This is, this is a poster child for the baby steps if he can do this right.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So, John, man, we are, we are team John and you've done such a good job and it's really important to be able to get perspective. So glad you called today. If we could just be a little bit of a sounding board to go, man, you're doing great. You just gotta, as George said, the tweaks and enjoy life and don't be so scared because you are really, really in great shape and we're praying for you guys Hope the baby and all that everything comes along when you want it to. It's such an exciting time. You're doing well, young man. Thank you for the.

[Caller]

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds credit union studio. I'm Ken Coleman, thrilled to be alongside my pal George Camel. We're here for you. 888-825-5225. We go to Ohio next where Jennifer is waiting for us. Jennifer, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm a lot more nervous than I thought I would be.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's George. He's intimidating.

[George Campbell]

It's the height most of.

[Ken Coleman]

Just know that I'm here to just take care of you. I'll make sure he's nice.

[Caller]

Okay, so I'm on baby step two and I'm still about $50,000 in debt and however, I'm sorry, I don't want to cry online or on the phone.

[Ken Coleman]

It's okay. It's okay.

[Caller]

I have to make a hard decision to say goodbye to my buddy, my dog next week. No, about 17 and I've had him 15 years and he's been with me. He's moved across to another country with me and all the things.

[Ken Coleman]

What's his name?

[Caller]

His name is Ulysses.

[Ken Coleman]

Ulysses?

[Caller]

Yeah, but you know, like Ulysses and then my last name, like the general.

[George Campbell]

Ken loves that historical name.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I'm. I'm nerding out right now.

[George Campbell]

What kind of dog?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, what kind?

[Caller]

I don't know. He's. He's some kind of poodle mix. His first owner was a hoarder and I think was. Was trying to like breed dogs or something. It was a bad situation. So he's. He's just a sweet. He's a total love bug. You know, he's almost 17 and well, George right now, like his tail would still wag if he'd come up and try to. He's just lovely.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, listen, you're talking to two dog lovers here.

[Caller]

I was hoping I'd get you.

[Ken Coleman]

We, we, we hurt for you. This is not fun. Okay, so we got this hard decision coming up. Tell us what else is going on.

[Caller]

Well, so here's what I've done and I guess I'm just looking for some reassurance that financially I've done the right thing. So part of how I knocked out the debt was I had a non retirement mutual fund and I cashed that out. And what I did is I knew this was probably coming So I took $400 and I put it in a sinking fund just in my savings account to say when in s where I'm struggling and I hate it. Guess what I want to do is have him cremated and get the urn back like I did for my other dog. But that's $200 more. I do have the money in the sinking fund. I just, I'm struggling with like I've been so good about. I don't eat out rice and beans, beans and rice. I'm doing handmade gifts instead of gifting. Like I'm doing all the things. But I just want to know that I'm not being completely irresponsible to spend the 240 instead of just 40 to cremating. Get my pups out in his ashes back. I know not everyone agrees with that.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, what's the other option if you didn't do it?

[Caller]

Well, there's two. So one is it's just $40 for the cremation and I just pay that and I don't get them back. They just.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, gotcha. I'm sorry.

[Caller]

They do that like in mass. And then the other, the least expensive is I could bury him in my parents backyard but I, I can't pick him up once he's gone. Like I don't think, I can't do it. Like I'm even having a panic attack thinking about it.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh well that's tough. That's tough stuff.

[George Campbell]

Like Jennifer, spend the 240.

[Ken Coleman]

Just spend it. You're not being irresponsible.

[George Campbell]

You're never going to look back and go, dang it, why did I spend that 240 bucks? I could have got out of debt four days sooner.

[Caller]

Yeah, okay, thank you. I just, I've been so diligent about like everything that it's like, yeah, this.

[George Campbell]

Is not an impulsive girls trip.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, this is not craziness. This is like a big, this is a huge Deal. All of us who've had to put a furry friend down. It is tough.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

And this is a. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

You're not like, emotionally spending to go, you know, retail therapy. This is something that you want to do as your way to say goodbye. It's not going to derail your financial journey. And if it really makes you feel guilty, here's what I would do psychologically. Go make 240 bucks doing something, selling something as part of this journey as a way to say, you know what? I didn't derail my financial goals and I got to grieve the way I wanted to grieve.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.

[Ken Coleman]

You're the best.

[George Campbell]

We're so sorry you're going through this, Jennifer.

[Ken Coleman]

So sorry. Give you Lissy's. Give him some love for George and I. A little extra pat for the best boy.

[Caller]

I will. I will.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Thank you so much.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, my gosh. What is it about dogs and pets? It just crush us.

[George Campbell]

The unconditional love and innocence.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. And can we just say, I love naming dogs. It's one of my favorite things in life.

[George Campbell]

What's your dog names?

[Ken Coleman]

We've got Ellis and Honey. Oh, and they are Doodles. Ellis is the big guy. He's like that white, perfect curl. Like he just. And he's a human. Ellis thinks he's a human.

[George Campbell]

I've stared into his eyes.

[Ken Coleman]

You have. And I treat Ellis as though he's a human. And then Honey is our mini Goldendoodle. And our daughter actually owns. She bought her. That was a big thing, big purchase for Josie, our daughter. And she did it. And she's just a little miniature doodle. And she owns me. I mean, you know what I mean? She's just unbelievable. So.

[George Campbell]

Well, especially as the kids get older and they don't like you anymore. The dogs will always love you.

[Ken Coleman]

I tell you who's always excited to see me when I walk in. Ellis. And Honey, Stacy's not always excited.

[George Campbell]

She said.

[Ken Coleman]

And I don't blame her. I mean, let's be clear here.

[George Campbell]

I mean, it's been. How many years you've been married? 27.

[Ken Coleman]

27 years. Yeah. You know, some days she just doesn't want to see me.

[George Campbell]

She goes, hey, Ken, you left the laundry out. What did I tell you?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Stacy didn't sound like that. I promise.

[Ken Coleman]

I was going to say that's a horrible impression. Let's go to Ben in Kentucky. Ben, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Well, I'm about to retire. Not that I want to since the company's closing. And I have 300,000 in CDs, and I'm wondering what to do with that. And I also have 100,000 U.S. savings bonds. I mean, do I leave them in CDs and savings bonds or should I put them somewhere else?

[George Campbell]

Well, I mean, you're just leaving a lot of money on the table. You're basically just kind of keeping up with inflation, but you're not going to make anything above and beyond that. So if this money's going to sit there for the next 10 years, I'd much rather see it invested into the market instead of just on the sidelines.

[Ken Coleman]

It's time for the investment calculator.

[George Campbell]

George, should we play the game?

[Ken Coleman]

We should.

[George Campbell]

What caused you to put. Put almost half a million dollars on the side here? Like, what is it? Are you scared of the market?

[Caller]

I'm about 67, 68 years old, and I'm just worried in the market because, well, as you know, it doesn't always go up and sometimes it takes a long time to come back up. And I just didn't want to lose it. And I just don't know what to do. I like it to be safe. And that's what I was wondering. I mean, because I do have a little bit in stocks, but not much, but.

[George Campbell]

Well, the thing is, when you say I want it to be safe, it's actually riskier to leave it in there long term.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And the risk is Instead of making 20, 30% this year, you're going to make 4% and you're going to go, what? How does. What happened? My money just kept up with inflation. Well, it could have turned into half a million.

[Ken Coleman]

Quick thing on this, Ben.

[George Campbell]

If the things.

[Ken Coleman]

And I'm not going to make you tell us for sake of time, but if the things happen that you're worried about happening that would make money in the stock market risky. Guess what? Your money's not safe in the other situation either. And we're all probably in a bunker somewhere. You just have to play that out. Does that make sense, what I'm saying? All of the apocalyptic things that would make you think, well, the CDs are safer. If that were to happen, the CDs, none of it matters. You with me on that, George?

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, I don't think that's interesting.

[George Campbell]

Let's get a bigger financial picture here. Do you have any debt?

[Caller]

No debt.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Do you have a nest egg outside of this money?

[Caller]

I have a simple IRA, and that's about 600,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So you are invested in the market through that ira?

[Caller]

Yes. Huh.

[George Campbell]

Well, you trusted the market on that one and here's the math on it from 68 to 75, you just leave that 300,000 in there into the market, it'll turn into 600,000 ho by 75, Ben. So that's what you're, that's just average rate of return, 10%. So I would move that money over, leave enough maybe a year of expenses if you're in retirement to to cover a market downturn. But I would not just leave half a million parked on the sidelines.

[Caller]

My.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

Hey folks, we'd love for you to share the show with folks that you think might enjoy it, that might need it. That's how we grow. You guys are the ultimate marketing campaign. If this show is in any way impacting you in a positive way, we'd love that. Subscribe Share Like Follow all the things thank you, thank you, thank you. Caitlyn is up in Texas. Caitlyn, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Can you hear me?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, loud and clear. What's going on?

[Caller]

Thank you. So my husband and I have been married for eight years. We have a seven year old autistic son and he has a 24 year old daughter from a previous marriage. Now he was estranged from his daughter for a while, so now they have a great relationship. But we were talking and he said that he wants to give her 20% of his 401k when he passed away, but when I'm still alive and I feel very frustrated with it, so I don't know them wrong or what I should do.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, and did you tell him this, how frustrated you are and why?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

And how did he respond to that?

[Caller]

Well, his reasoning is because he was so. He used to. Could be. He was in prison, he was a drug addict at one point, but he got sober. Now he's been sober for 13 years and he has rebuilt his relationship with his daughter. And I think that he. The money is trying to make up for lost time and that he doesn't want her to feel like he left her behind without thinking about her.

[Ken Coleman]

And she is. She is his daughter.

[Caller]

She is his daughter and she's 24. The reason why I'm frustrated is because my son, our son especially special needs, and I feel like he might not be able to take care of himself. And, you know, we have a. We have a trust set up. It's a special needs trust. And I guess we have a will. But I thought that all our assets were going to go into his will. I mean, to his trust. And he's saying, well, that's fine, but 20% of my 401k is going to her.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure. Well, I'm just going to say that. Let me ask another question. If this daughter was your biological daughter, do you think you'd feel the same way?

[Caller]

I mean, I. Maybe I think that.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me put it another way. Do you think it is normal for. Let me put. Let me make it super personal. Okay. I have three kids. Okay. And so in my will, do you think it would be abnormal if I gave all three of my kids some money?

[Caller]

No. That would be fair. All three Richards. Like the same amount.

[Ken Coleman]

Doesn't matter. I'm not even getting into the specifics. I just want to. I'm trying to walk you into. I'm really trying to coach you here. So you think that's normal for me to do that? Yes.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Why? Why is it normal? Why would that be totally normal.

[Caller]

For you to give your money to your children when you passed away? Now, would you give that to them before your wife passed away?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, without getting into the details, yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to get into the details of my situation. I'm. But I'm making a point here. That is. I don't think that this is abnormal. And you don't either. I think it's very emotional for you. And I'm not Judging you in any way, shape or form. I certainly see how you are where you are because you shared it with me and I see how you got there because of the challenges of your son and what his situation would be. I get it. But as I'm sitting and I'm going to bring George in and George may have a completely different opinion. I'm just telling you that I totally see where he's coming from. And I don't have some fundamental problem with it, philosophical problem, and I don't have a financial problem with it. George?

[George Campbell]

Yeah. The piece I'm curious about, are you going to be okay if something were to happen to him?

[Caller]

Would I be okay if something happened to him?

[George Campbell]

Financially?

[Ken Coleman]

If your husband dies today, are you.

[George Campbell]

Okay if you get 80% instead of 100%? Are you still living a comfortable life?

[Caller]

I mean, he hasn't been in the workforce that long. I probably have more investments than he does.

[George Campbell]

So I'm trying to get at is this actually a financial. There's really no. If I get 80%, I'm not going to be doing okay versus 100. So it's really just the idea that he's valuing and prioritizing his daughter over giving you the entire share and maybe you feel like it's unfair to the son.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So the next question is, is the son set up to succeed if something were to happen? Is the special needs trust funded and is it, you know, have you guys done a good job to make sure that he would be okay?

[Caller]

Well, so far we have. He's seven and my husband and I are both 50. I had him a lot later in life and I think that, I mean I could see that. I, I think that it was just an emotional feeling. I kind of felt that he wasn't thinking about us and he was more concerned about his. A grown child that is self sufficient. I think it was.

[Ken Coleman]

It absolutely is. But here's the thing. As an objective bystander that called and asked this question to. I don't think he's demonstrating that even financially the blind share, the big chunk is going to you and for your son. He's giving her a percentage of his overall.

[George Campbell]

Now, I don't know the relationship or the past history, but do you think there's some guilt here that he feels as a father to go, I feel like I owe her something because of what she has gone through.

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely.

[George Campbell]

So I think I would try to put myself in his shoes and just talk to him honestly and say, hey, this, here's how this hit Me, initially, I want to hear you out and hear your heart behind this. I want to come to an agreement and make peace with whatever we decide on as a couple. And I want to see the numbers to know that our son is going to be taken care of. I'm going to be taken care of, and your daughter will get her share as well.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

I think focusing on, on the, the facts, the logic and the heart behind it, the motive behind it will help you step away from just, just the emotion of, well, I'm his wife. I should be getting whatever he leaves.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And, and a little dose of perspective. Lord willing, you guys live 20, 30, 40 years. You guys are early 50s. You got some work to do anyway on this to, to, to really bump these numbers up so it is all emotional. I love that being honest. You're very self aware on this and we're not judging you at all. Totally get where you're coming from, but I see where your husband's coming from and I think this is a merit issue and I think this is going to cause a lot of resentment if you don't get to a place of acceptance over this and go, oh, okay, we can come together and take care of our son. We can come together, make sure we're debt free and walk the Ramsey baby steps out and retire with a tremendous amount of peace and margin and not even worry about this.

[George Campbell]

Can I ask you, who is the beneficiary on your investments?

[Caller]

My husband. 100%.

[George Campbell]

There we go. So now it feels unfair. That's where this is stemming from.

[Caller]

From.

[George Campbell]

Is there a way where you could say, hey, he's 80% and I'm going to do 20% to the special needs trust?

[Caller]

I could, I could do that. And I think he would have been, I think he would be fine with it, you know, But I also know that if I give him 100%, I definitely trust him where he would never. He would do everything he could to make sure our son is safe and everything.

[Ken Coleman]

There's. Okay, there's the statement. There it is. Is what you just said is what you have to remember when this emotion comes up. I trust him and I know that he would do everything he can to take care of us. And this is the same man who also wants to do something for a daughter that he failed. I admire this. I admire this move. It's not traditional. I get it, but this isn't a traditional life you guys have.

[Caller]

Have.

[Ken Coleman]

This is a unique story and I, I hope you can mend this resentment and go, hey, this is what I felt because I'm sure he felt some of this coming at him. And I think you got to support him in this move.

[Caller]

Yeah. Well, thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

You're a good lady. You're a good lady. You know, you're not. Listen, this is a. I appreciate you being really honest, George. These.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, this is not an out of bounds thing like you.

[Ken Coleman]

You're.

[George Campbell]

What you're feeling is normal.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

But I just want to go further than that. Instead of just leave it at face value of, well, he should give you 100%. You're the wife again. This is a complex situation and it requires a more unique solution.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Thank you, Kaylin, for sharing with us. You're a good lady and you guys have a lot of time to do what's necessary to take care of your son. Focus on that. That's a unified goal and a worthy goal. It.

[George Campbell]

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, George, we're gonna do something new. This is gonna be fun. How about a video call? Would you like to help somebody out?

[George Campbell]

This is something we have never done on the Ramsey show.

[Ken Coleman]

We're doing it right now. We're gonna go to Sarah in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi, Sarah.

[Caller]

Hi, guys.

I hope you're doing okay today.

[Ken Coleman]

We're doing okay.

[George Campbell]

It's so nice to see you.

[Ken Coleman]

It is so nice to see you. Thanks for joining us. So how can we help today?

[Caller]

Well, after about seven years of hard work at paying off my debt, I've found myself in a bit of a better financial situation. And I've been working for seven years at 70 to 100 hours a week.

[Ken Coleman]

What?

[Caller]

And I.

[Ken Coleman]

Doing what kind of work? Tell us what kind of work? This is.

[Caller]

A little bit of everything. I've been a bartender, a legal secretary. I currently work bartending as a legal secretary and in logistics.

[George Campbell]

What's your full time job?

[Caller]

I work in logistics.

[George Campbell]

Okay. 40 hours a week.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Yep.

And that's a normal.

Like eight to five times. And working overtime.

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And then at night, you're just. You're going to the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing. For seven years, you've done this.

[Caller]

This.

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Are you done with the debt?

[Caller]

I am not. I just got my student loans refinanced. They were at a 14% interest rate, if you can believe it. And I cut it down to six.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Okay. Wow. Give us a quick snapshot of your current debt situation.

[Caller]

So I have $85,000 left. I got my credit cards completely paid off last year, and based on my current income and the rate at my refinance, I'm able to pay double, sometimes two and a half times my minimum.

[George Campbell]

So are you doing the debt snowball where you're just focused on one and making minimums on the rest?

[Caller]

I only have the one loan because they got consolidated when I refinanced to get out of the 14%.

[George Campbell]

Oh, so you have an $85,000 loan that you're just tackling.

[Ken Coleman]

And what are you putting towards that? What is the amount you're putting towards that every month?

[Caller]

So the minimum is 10.65. And I am currently paying per month somewhere around 2,500.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

And.

And I sometimes can go a little higher, depending.

[Ken Coleman]

Depending on the hours, so. Because you just told us 70 to 100 hours and the emotion came out.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

What's going on? What's that emotion coming from?

[Caller]

It's just been a lot.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

For a long time.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And three years is basically what I have calculated left at. So.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And that just feels absolutely overwhelming.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so what we want to do here is we want to go. Okay. It's okay to take a. Take a deep breath on this whole situation and go. Okay. I can't keep this up right now. You feel like you're at your breaking point. That's what you feel like a lot of days.

[Caller]

Yes. I mean, my boyfriend is incredibly supportive, and he tries to do as much as he can to help out, but he really doesn't know what more to do for me.

[Ken Coleman]

No. Okay, so let's see what we can do. Well, you're not. Let's start there. You're not stuck. You're exhausted. Okay. You've done a great. You've done a great job. All right, let's look at the day job, the 40 hour a week job. What is your income from that?

[Caller]

About 54 before any overtime.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. 54,000 before overtime. And then how many overtime hours are available to you?

[Caller]

It depends. Currently I'm working anywhere from 4 to 10 a week.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so 4 to 10 hours of overtime a week?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. So that puts us at most 50 hours. So 44 to 50 hours. And then you are working these extra jobs on top of that, correct?

[Caller]

Yes, that is correct.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And if you were, if I were to say to you right now, hey, take a month off of these other jobs and let's just, let's just focus on the day job and the overtime that comes with the day job. So that's going to put us in a 44 to 50 hours a week. Okay. Just knowing what you know, know about your finances, how much would that affect your ability to make that two thousand dollar payment a month? What would that drop? Would it drop? And what would it drop too?

[Caller]

It would drop about fifteen hundred dollars.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so it would be that substantial.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And that's what's saying if you keep this up, you're on a three year pace. George, I want to bring you in on that because I think there's another way out of this. On the three years.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I'm trying to get to the root of, you know, you've been at the seven years on average. It takes people about 18 to 24 months to get out of debt. So what was the original balance you were facing of all the debts?

[Caller]

So part of what this is, I went and got a master's story and my field that I work predominantly in is known for not paying very well. But I would try to write in my free time. I have a degree in history.

[George Campbell]

So what was your master's in?

[Caller]

Military history, actually.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh boy.

[George Campbell]

Were you trying to get a job in that field or was this just for fun?

[Caller]

Yes, actually I would. My, my eventual goal is to teach and I have the lead on potentially getting into a PhD program in the next couple of years.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, forget it.

[Caller]

Which is paid.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's put that on ice. I know, but. Right, so, so let's go.

[Caller]

I know, and that's kind of where I'm at.

[George Campbell]

Let's go to the logistics. Well, that's all that. So what kind of debt was this and what was the original balances? Because it sounds like you added to it over the seven years. In my mind you were just crushing down the debt, but instead you were adding to it while trying to keep up.

[Caller]

I actually paid as I was in my master's program in, in order to keep doing that and, and still held my Minimums for my undergraduates.

[George Campbell]

So Was this like $500,000 entirely certain?

[Caller]

No.

So I was a little bit stupid and I didn't know what I was doing when I went into my undergraduate program.

[George Campbell]

That's most of the time.

[Caller]

And my dad took care of all of the loans and he put them on variable interest rates. And so I have no idea exactly what the starting amount was.

[George Campbell]

Are they in his name or yours?

[Caller]

He's my co signer.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, this just got more interesting.

[George Campbell]

So the debt is also his. Okay. All right.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

I think we got to talk about you. First of all, you can't keep this up. You. I. I don't think you're in a. Now, you might be able to come back to 70, but 100 hours, like, at some point, you're going to have to be really, really smart about you and your mind and your body trying to keep this up. All right? So, yeah. What is two or three ladders up, Two or three rungs up the ladder look like from your logistics career where you are now? What does it look like? Is it attainable and does it pay substantially more? Yes, that's the focus.

[George Campbell]

If we can double your income and get you working 40, 50 hours, we solve the problem.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what we're trying to do. Year you're working.

[Caller]

That's one of the things I've been working towards for the last year, is to earn the promotion that comes. And I think I'm actually close to.

[Ken Coleman]

You're close. And can I tell you something else? You keeping up the schedule you've been keeping up, while I admire it and it is gazelle intensity, you're the poster child. So proud of you. But that's affecting your ability at the day job. You're going to become more promotable when you are more refreshed mentally, physically, so you're not stuck. You're not putting the best effort. Your effort's amazing, but the effort's not going to the best place. I want to see you get promoted. I want to see you use that logistics resume in the building that you're in right now. Okay. Or outside of that building. Because the logistics, experience and skill set, George, is where she has the greatest opportunity for growth. Now, we can work 50 hours a week, maybe the occasional 60, but we got more income.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. I would try taking a few months off, I think. You know what? Let me see what this does for my career. Let me see what this does for my emotional and mental health and physically. And then we'll reset in January and see do we need to put the foot on the gas again?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, Sarah, we're rooting for you. You're a warrior. Keep going. All right, let's go to Amber in Georgia. Amber, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. So I guess my primary question is, how do you stay motivated? Or how do I stay motivated when I feel deprived and restricted by a budget?

[George Campbell]

Who made the budget?

[Ken Coleman]

I got a feeling it was somebody else. Was it you?

[George Campbell]

You made the budget?

[Caller]

No, I made the budget. There's more to the feeling. Restricted.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. What area do you feel?

[Ken Coleman]

What's making you feel restricted?

[Caller]

Sorry. I thought I was going to be able to keep it together.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen, people cry on the show all the time. You're okay. Okay. We're good.

[Caller]

I have had a very difficult life. It's been really, really tough. And I'm just now starting to get help. And part of the things that have been tough have been financial. I have spent money just because I was filling a void. And I didn't notice or realize that until recently. So I've gotten myself into a lot of financial trouble. I was married to a man who got us in a lot of financial trouble. We almost lost our house. We wound up filing bankruptcy. I had to file bankruptcy a second time in order to avoid a legal situation. I just feel like it doesn't matter what I do. I can't stick to anything.

[Ken Coleman]

So you're beating yourself up big time.

[George Campbell]

This isn't about the budget, Amber. You feel hopeless because life has knocked you down.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And you need to heal from all the things that have happened to you, and that's okay. So where are you at today? Are you single again? Working?

[Caller]

I work. I work about 52 hours a week. I've got two jobs that I work those hours between, and then I work 12 hours a month. At a third job, I do have a boyfriend, but he lives an hour and a half away.

[George Campbell]

What do you make?

[Ken Coleman]

What are you making with all three jobs?

[Caller]

Around 62,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Do you have kids?

[Caller]

An older kid.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So you're only responsible for you right now?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Let me just throw something in real quick. Okay. I'm proud of you, and I think you should be proud of yourself. I hear a lady who has had a rough go. And I think you blame yourself for a lot of it. Not all of it, but I think you're dealing with a lot of shit shame. And I just want to say to you that the fact that you're working three jobs and making $60,000 a year and trying to rebuild I'm just want to say you are a strong person. So just wanted to the rest of the phone call. I want you to know that and believe that because that's what I see. And George, you see it as well?

[George Campbell]

Yeah. You're resilient.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so let's keep walking through George Walker, through the financial stuff.

[George Campbell]

You make 62k. How much debt do you have right now?

[Caller]

Now about 88,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay, break that down for us.

[Caller]

Okay. 3,000 is just random miscellaneous debt. I've got 2,000 in credit card, 7,000 on one vehicle, 21 on another, 25,000 in student loans, and 30,000 to my parents for my divorce.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And this is all post your last bankruptcy?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so the cycle has just been continuing every single time, Is that correct?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And what you said, you're. You're trying to seek help, what kind of area you share, as much as you're comfortable with. But what is the root of this? If you had to say, hey, when this happens, this is sort of a trigger for me that causes me to spiral and go, want to spend a bunch of money that I don't have and go into debt. What causes the loop.

[Caller]

Aside from mental health?

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know, when you say mental health, what are you comfortable telling us? What diagnose yourself here? What's. What is this thing? Is what George is getting at.

[Caller]

I was recently diagnosed with PTSD and bipolar disorder.

[George Campbell]

Okay, and are you. Are you currently with a medical professional working on treatment and medicine to get a hold of this?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And in the meantime, your original question was, I feel restricted by living on a budget. So when you made this budget, what is the area or line item where you go, oh, this is so restrictive. What can't you do that you want to do? Well, I mean, part of it is your bills, right? You have your rent, you have your utilities, you have insurance. You got to put food on the table and get some groceries. So what is restrictive about it?

[Caller]

So I feel restricted in the sense that I'm so accustomed to having two incomes. I went from $175,000 combined to, you know, 50,000 at the time. And I, at the time, I could buy whatever I wanted. It didn't matter. We were in a decent financial position. And I'm still in that mindset that I just can't get out of. Paying my bills is not the problem. Bills are paid. I can't put money away because whatever money I have left over, I want to buy Nothing, Anything.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, okay, so let's let's re. Let's reclassify the word you're using because words matter. But before we do that, quick context. Yes, you had two incomes, but you told us that your ex husband put you in a massive financial hole on his own. So it wasn't that great. It's just you guys were living like it was great. True or false?

[Caller]

Both true and false. The financial predicament happened years later, and then we got on the terms.

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

But my point is, is it was great for a while, and then it wasn't great, and we're still living a long time ago. And so I don't think you're restricted. I think that you're dealing with a form of depression. And I don't tell them I'm not a. I'm not clinically diagnosed. I'm saying this is like financial depression because it's like I had this life. This is what it was like. And now I'm just. Just chipping away and I'm not even having any fun. There's no fun at all. And welcome to the journey. There are people sitting in this lobby today that have felt that. If you felt that before, raise your hand out there. Ye. I mean, millions of people that have turned their life around at some point in the baby steps. Baby step one and two, George, are grueling.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. So do you have $1,000 right now, Amber?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

Has that been hard for you to come up with?

[Caller]

I had it and I had it. And then something happened that legally shouldn't. I had a lien placed on something, and I had to get the lien off in order to replace what I needed to replace. Well, that lien should never have been placed because that particular balance was included in the bankruptcy. But because I legally needed to drive, I had to pay the lien. So there went my entire savings.

[George Campbell]

Okay, but $4,000, let's say, will pass through your hands in the next 30 days, correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Before you pay the bills, can you set aside a thousand over in a savings account. Account, outside of your checking account, and still pay your bills?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so there's baby step one.

[George Campbell]

Part of the. The hard part of this is you just have to do it. And there's always going to be something that comes up, and you just have to make getting out of debt and getting to a better financial spot the priority before anything else. And it's. There's going to be more setbacks where that came from. Because here's the reality. You're right. Looking at the budget, it is restricted because you're broke, you make 62k and you have 88k to pay off. That's hard math that you're facing. And so my hope for you is that we can go. How do we clear this debt fast? Like these cars. Do we need both of these cars? Can we sell one or both of them and clear those payments and then buy something used in cash?

[Caller]

No, because they're both underwater.

[George Campbell]

By how much on each?

[Caller]

On one of them probably 4,000. And on the other maybe six or seven.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so now we have a solvable problem. If we come up with 10 or 11k, we can clear these payments and breathe a little bit more and then we clear the next smallest debt. Breathe a little bit more. So you're gonna have to get creative. I hope you can get your health in a man manageable spot. And just know this looks different now. Your life changed dramatically. The reality changed.

[Ken Coleman]

Hang on the line. I want to get you into every dollar. It's more than a budgeting app. It's going to walk you through this whole journey.

[George Campbell]

Hang on the line.

[Ken Coleman]

We're going to help you. Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money in marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th and early bird. Prices start at 749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets [e-mail] events. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside the incomparable, the charming George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. You like what I did there?

[George Campbell]

I was actually shocked. I thought there was someone else you were going to announce.

[Ken Coleman]

I think you are charming. I really do. I don't think you get enough credit for your charm, George.

[George Campbell]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

People just love your brain. They do. They love it when you crunch the numbers here.

[George Campbell]

I do like to crunch a good number.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, Cindy's ready. Cindy's joining us now in Ohio. Cindy, how can we help?

[Caller]

Well, good afternoon. First of all, my son wants me to say hi on his behalf.

[George Campbell]

What's his name?

[Ken Coleman]

What's his name?

[Caller]

I would prefer not to say.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, we get it. All right.

[George Campbell]

We were trying to give him a shout out.

[Ken Coleman]

We were going to do a shout out, but Never.

[George Campbell]

Never mind.

[Ken Coleman]

Is he listening or watching? What does it do?

[Caller]

He will.

He is aware that I'm on the phone with you.

[Ken Coleman]

He will see this later.

[Caller]

He will. He will. Later.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, let's do it. Hey, buddy.

[George Campbell]

Hey, Braxton. I'm just gonna guess a name. I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

You can't make up a fake name.

[George Campbell]

I can do what I want.

[Ken Coleman]

Now he's gonna be confused. Cindy, I apologize for my co host. Well, tell your son we said hello. We'd love to meet him sometimes.

[Caller]

All right, I will tell him.

[Ken Coleman]

What's up.

[Caller]

Okay, so my question has to do with my next step in the baby step. So I am single. I have a six month fully funded emergency fund. So I'm excited to start on my 15% investing.

[Ken Coleman]

However.

[Caller]

Yeah, so. However, I'm not sure if I should because my company that I worked for was recently purchased. And so there's some job uncertainty. So I know you know, that maybe a recency of cash. However, I was notified that if I stay with the company for at least another year, that they will give me a retention bonus.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, hold on. All right, let's pause. Let's pause real quick because this is interesting. You're feeling because of the acquisition that your job may be in trouble, and yet they just gave you a notification that if you stay for another year, you get a benefit.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

So that's a good sign to me. Yes. What am I missing?

[Caller]

It is. They did say that if they. They haven't decided exactly which path they're going to go, they're kind of still in the figuring things out stage. So they did say that they could end my employment at any point in time.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I missed that part. I must have interrupted you before that. Okay, I get you.

[Caller]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm sorry.

[Caller]

That bonus would be payable to me regardless if it's. It's. If it's a year from now or if they determine that my position will be eliminated, I still get that bonus.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Any hint, any hint or ideas or hunches on when they're going to make this decision?

[Caller]

That I don't know. But I also do know for a fact that if my position is eliminated, I will get that retention bonus along with a severance, which is in excess of 10 months of my current salary.

[Ken Coleman]

Give us that number.

[Caller]

It would be over $100,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. I'm thinking that Cindy would be okay with that. $100,000. That'd give you a little bit of pass to find another job. Is that true?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so I'M taking a deep breath if I'm you. Yes.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. I wish I'm not missing anything.

[Caller]

No, I think that I'm okay to go ahead and start investing since I know that I've got six months in the bank already plus some.

[George Campbell]

How much is in the bank? What's the number?

[Caller]

I've got about 35,000 in the bank and my emergency fund would be about 19,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay, you're more than okay. I would not pile up another dime. I would just go ahead and ratchet that investing up to 15%. And you have a good retirement account through your employer?

[Caller]

I do. I have about 300 and something in there.

[Ken Coleman]

Way to go, Cindy. Come on, let's go. Single mom.

[Caller]

Yes. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

That's amazing. How old are you? Oh, I'm not supposed to ask.

[Caller]

I am 47.

[George Campbell]

Okay, wonderful.

[Ken Coleman]

Very young, by the way.

[George Campbell]

So I'm just thinking. I'm just thinking how much this investment account will grow on top of you contributing to it. I've no doubt that you will be a baby steps millionaire if you just keep following this path.

[Ken Coleman]

That is correct. What? Just for fun, George, what's the. I love when you do this. Give Cindy a another reason.

[George Campbell]

What's your income every year?

[Caller]

My base is about 136.

[George Campbell]

Love it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, he's running numbers, Cindy. On what that 300 is going to look like if you don't do. This is going to be exciting. Are you ready for this?

[George Campbell]

Here we go.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, boy. I saw 47.

[George Campbell]

47 to 67 and you already have 300 grand. You're going to add 1700amonth. If you do 15%, you're going to be at about 3.5 million.

[Caller]

Hot diggity dog.

[George Campbell]

So I wouldn't be worried. Now, I hope you never lose your job and know that if you ever did, you're in the best situation possible. Knowing that you have an emergency fund, you have no debt, and you have a severance package here.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So I would be sleeping well at night. Just crushing it at your job. And if they let go of you, you're going to be so valuable someone else will scoop you up and you'll probably make more.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Caller]

Awesome. Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, I know you didn't call about this particular piece, but I want to give you this. I wrote a book years ago called the Proximity principle. And the entire book could be summed up in one sentence. The right people plus the right places equals opportunity. And so anytime somebody calls or I run into somebody who's got a situation like this. And they're like, I'm unsure about my employment beyond all the money stuff that we just covered. The next thing I'm going to tell them is start connecting like crazy. You just start connecting in your industry, or you're just. And you're not going out and telling everybody the sky's falling or that my job. But you can say, hey, I just. Just part of an acquisition and so not sure where that's going to go. Could turn out great, but really not sure right now. And so I'm out making connections, coffees, lunches. You know, I am letting everybody know that I might very well be a free agent. And you would be surprised how much peace that's going to give you, number one. But number two, you might be surprised that even though you might not be looking for anything, something might come to you. And the idea here is I want to get around the right people. These are people that are in my industry, and reconnect. And that means tell everybody, everybody. Because you got a real good reason to share that right now. Because anybody in your situation would feel the same way. You're not laid off. This thing might turn out to be great, but I really, really recommend that you do that. And so keep going. But also, I'm always creating. It's like, you know, I'm gonna fly. I'm flying to Virginia later today. And at some point before we take off tonight, they'll show us the emergency exits. I want people doing the same thing professionally. If I were to be laid off or if I were to, you know what would be my emergency exits? Really important. And a lot of people don't do that. And I think you can do that all the time and always put yourself in a good space. Last thing I want to say, Cindy. And I know George is going to want to say something too. I'm putting you on the spot, pal. I want your son to hear from us that his mom has done a phenomenal job taking care of him. And buddy, listen to the details today and sit at down and talk to mom about what she's done. And you learn from her. But also I want you to thank her, give her a big hug, because she has really done a phenomenal job taking care of you, pal.

[George Campbell]

No notes. That was perfect.

[Ken Coleman]

So thank you so much.

[George Campbell]

I was just hoping you would have an analogy for the seat as a flotation device. You know, the career field. What is that? The severance?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, no, I'll tell you what it is. Your connections are the flotation and what about the mask.

[George Campbell]

What are we doing with the mask?

[Ken Coleman]

The mask is the money stuff. So if I've got the emergency fund, the mask, I mean, I know that I'm not in desperation. I'm not going to die. We take the mask, that's the money. Stability, that's the mask. And then the flotation device is. I got connections, I got jobs. People want me, they love me.

[George Campbell]

Keep going.

[Dave Ramsey]

We've all done dumb things with money. I've done them with zeros on the end. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make with money is not having a plan for. You got to have a plan, you got to be intentional. And you need to get a budget. You have to tell your money where to go so you're not wondering where it went. Our budgeting app, EveryDollar, helps you do just that. It's the easiest and fastest way to make a monthly plan. For every dollar you've got coming in and going out, now's the best time to get started before the ridiculous holiday spending season gets here and sucks you in because you didn't have a plan. Don't let that happen. You're done making that mistake. Go download every dollar for free. Free in the App Store or Google Play today.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Joseph in Louisville, Kentucky. Joseph, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey guys, appreciate you taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

I have a plumbing business. It's a one man show, so it's only me. One question is, should I have a separate emergency fund for that business? My other question is I have some debt like a van and I also have some plumbing equipment. That debt, I can write that off 100%, but should I just pay it off instead?

[George Campbell]

Yes. And in short, number one, you should have a separate checking account and savings for the business as some reserves there. So you have that separated.

[Caller]

It is separated, but I didn't know if I actually needed a six month emergency fund.

[George Campbell]

No, a business wouldn't operate like your personal household would, but your reserves will sort of act like that. And as you've done the business over a long period of time, you'll kind of know what kind of emergencies you might be facing in a business situation. And part of that is reducing your risk will leave you not needing to touch that. And so part of reducing risk is getting rid of that debt because the debt isn't, you know, Joe Joseph's plumbing business. Did you sign the dotted line on that? So it's your personal debt.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

So I would pay it off. I don't, I'm not A fan of this, like, well, I can write it off. It's not a dollar for dollar deduction here.

[Caller]

Right. And so not a big deal. I mean I have, so I have a. I could pay it off. I have 127,000 in my personal account.

[George Campbell]

Awesome. And what's the debt?

[Caller]

25 in my business account, I have a $20,000 emergency fund. Separate from that in my savings account, everything is paid off except for my house. I owe 32,000 and my payment is 211 61amonth.

[George Campbell]

What's the, what's left on the van?

[Caller]

40,000 on the van and 25,000 on equipment. So I can pay it off without a problem.

[Ken Coleman]

So why, what is keeping you from doing. Doing that?

[Caller]

It's almost like rent to own. So I was thinking it may be safer to keep that money on hand. But also I have no problem with, I'm not in love with the money. I have no problem with letting it go and paying the debt off.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's not rent owned. That analogy is kind of weird for me. But you know, look, this is a van that is depreciation every day and the debt is not doing anything. And you're. What's your interest payment on that?

[Caller]

6.39.

[Ken Coleman]

So what's the monthly payment on the van?

[Caller]

669.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, none of this makes any sense.

[George Campbell]

There's 211 plus 669.

[Caller]

No, the 211 is.

Oh.

[George Campbell]

How much will you free up by paying off These debts?

[Caller]

Debts?

1400Amonth. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

And you have the, you have the cash to pay off the plumbing equipment plus your house, right?

[George Campbell]

Dude, if you just like wrote a check today and we're done with all of this and invested all those payments, you'd be so wealthy you would laugh at the tax write off money you'd be making now.

[Caller]

I am 50 and I have zero.

[George Campbell]

Retirement retirement for you up to put $1400 away into retirement accounts.

[Caller]

Now.

[George Campbell]

What stopped you from investing?

[Caller]

I just started this business a few a couple of years ago. So my cash flow hasn't always been what it is today.

[Ken Coleman]

So you're full time plumbing off the house?

[Caller]

Yeah, full time.

[Ken Coleman]

Good for you.

[Caller]

Have not paid off the house because at 211amonth, I would rather have the $32,000. I could collect cans and pay 211amonth. That has been my logic on that.

[Ken Coleman]

No, we've heard that. We've heard that a million times. How much is the van worth?

[Caller]

It's brand new. I just bought it in February.

[Ken Coleman]

You didn't well, how much is it worth? I know what you owe on it. What could you sell it for?

[Caller]

I honestly have no idea. I paid 54,000 for it, so I've already paid it down 14,000 in the last. Last. Since February. All right.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, a van is. It's got all your plumbing tools in it, correct?

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

Nobody's riding in it. Just you.

[Caller]

Just me.

[George Campbell]

So you could get a cheap van, get it wrapped nice, and probably save 20 grand right there. You sold it and got a cheaper one.

[Ken Coleman]

That's where I'm going.

[Caller]

Well, the thing. The equipment I have will absolutely not fit in a minivan.

[George Campbell]

I never said minivan.

[Ken Coleman]

Nobody said a minivan.

[George Campbell]

I'm just saying you didn't need to buy a brand new minivan.

[Caller]

I'm sorry.

[Ken Coleman]

Know, I actually would really respect a guy who rolls up to be my plumber in a Mini.

[George Campbell]

I know I'm not getting ripped off if a guy shows up in a Mini.

[Ken Coleman]

I was getting ready to say that. For some reason, I trust a plumber in a minivan.

[George Campbell]

I see a plumber in a fancy new van, I go, he's going to price gouge me because he's got payments on that.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree with the big fancy wrap. I just want to see a little square sign on the side of a red minivan.

[George Campbell]

Well, let me, Let me play this game with you. If you freed up the mortgage plus your debt payments, is that now like 1600amonth?

[Caller]

Correct? Yes.

[George Campbell]

And could you invest more on top of that?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so how much could you invest every month on top of the 1600 to get set for retirement?

[Caller]

On top of the 1600, I could.

[George Campbell]

Do another 2000, 3600amonth. You could just start shoveling into investments.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Well, from age 50 to 67, you shovel 3,600 away, you could end up with almost $2 million.

[Caller]

Correct? Yep. I've done the math on that.

[George Campbell]

Well, math is one thing. Doing it is a whole nother thing, isn't it?

[Caller]

Well, I just now sort of got turned on to Dave Ramsey, so I'm kind of.

[George Campbell]

Good learning.

[Caller]

Yeah. He's gonna make sure this was the right step before I paid.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. We recommend any business, any entrepreneur, do it with cash and move at the speed of cash. Do it slow. Don't get ahead of yourself. Don't say you're investing in the business by taking on payments or new fancy equipment. Just cash flow it. And it's going to reduce your risk, increase your peace, increase your chance of surviving. If something were to happen in the business, and I hope the business continues to thrive. Sounds like you're doing great.

[Caller]

Yeah, me too. I appreciate that. Yeah. I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Joseph, listen, you're doing great. I would love for America to hear this. How long ago did you become a plumber and what was the qualification process like? What was the length of that and the cost to become a product plumber?

[Caller]

Well, so I started my business. I just got started in this four years ago.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. How long was the qualification process?

[Caller]

If someone wants to become a plumber, they have to be an apprentice for a couple of years and they have to be a journeyman for a couple of years. So you're looking at, you know, four years.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. Okay. And you did that.

[Caller]

You only have to be. You only need a master's if you're doing. If you're pulling permits, you don't have to have a master's. Right.

[Ken Coleman]

How much did it cost for you to become qualified?

[Caller]

It doesn't cost anything. I mean, it costs the price of a test.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm just asking you a straightforward question. I can't get the answer.

[Caller]

Hundred dollars.

[Ken Coleman]

There we go. Couple hundred bucks for you to get that training.

[George Campbell]

Now you're making what as a solopreneur.

[Caller]

Well, this year be 250 before taxes.

[George Campbell]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Ken Coleman]

This is what I wanted people to hear. All right. The trades are exploding. This is a guy who's crushing it. Way to go, Joe. Joseph, thanks for sharing that.

[Caller]

Every five plumbers that are getting out of the business, there are only two to replace them.

[Ken Coleman]

Exactly.

[George Campbell]

Which means we desperately need people like Joseph to get.

[Ken Coleman]

There's a massive opportunity right now in the trades, and this is real life example.

[George Campbell]

So four years, which is what undergrad would. Would take you a few hundred bucks, which is a heck of a lot cheaper than undergrad, and you could be making a quarter of a million dollars running your own business, owning your time.

[Ken Coleman]

You didn't notice any student loans. Loans in there, did you?

[George Campbell]

Nothing.

[Ken Coleman]

Nothing in there. Telling you, folks, this is amazing. Little PSA to America's parents that listen to the show and grandparents who have influence over young people. The world is changing, and this idea that a college degree is the only way to succeed is crumbling. And it's crumbling faster. Gallup put out new data. George. First of this year, 46% of American parents. Listen to this, folks. 46% of American parents would prefer their kids go into trades instead of a college path. And that is because they see the handwriting on the wall and I'm telling you, we got to stop looking down our nose at the trades because you're going to look up five years from now, 10 years from now, there's going to be a lot of millionaires in this country who did exactly what Joseph did. It's. It may be a little dirty during the day, but you can come home to Egyptian cotton sheets. All right? This is good, honorable work and it creates jobs. Remember, small business is what fuels the American economy. There you go. Thank you very much. America.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work. Searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you. You like. We would find what you [e-mail] insurance.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Our question of the day is brought to you by why refi? You've tried budgeting, you've tried making minimum payments, but those defaulted private student loans are still weighing you down. Why refi Might be able to help. Learn [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey it's not available in all states.

[George Campbell]

Today's question comes from Tucker in Washington. The company I've been with for just a few months is experiencing financial struggles. Upper management has mentioned in a couple of company wide meetings that there are only 10 months of cash left and we have had negative cash flow month after month. I left my previous job because my manager was extremely toxic and the company culture wasn't good. Will two employment stints of less than a year be a red flag on my resume? I just got married six months ago and we want to start a family soon. So my job will be our sole source of income. Would it be wise to begin looking for another job or should I wait and see what happens with the company in a year? Yes, I think you should start looking yesterday. Yesterday.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's the narrative because I understand the question. George. Two jobs on the resume. You got to tell the truth. You don't bash them. You say, okay, here's what happened in the last job and got this other job. This is the story I was told. Story change. Here's where we're at. So I've just, I've had some really bad luck, you know, and that's different than you flaking.

[George Campbell]

It's not you job hopping.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So Just control the narrative and absolutely be lucky looking and don't have any shame over this. You know, you just got to take control of the situation. Now I will tell you this. The job market is a lot tougher right now. It's what we call a soft job market where companies are sitting tight, kind of waiting to see what's going to happen with all the tariffs. That's one of the big things. A lot of uncertainty right now as to what's going on there. And the economy is, you know, with interest rates, what's the Fed going to do? So when you get into a lot of uncertainty, certainty in the macro economy, companies tend to just slow down when it comes to hiring. And we're seeing that this is a soft market. Unemployment is up into the low four. So, yeah, I would not, you know, ride this out and ride the wave. Not smart.

[George Campbell]

And then just wait till the buzzer beater when they lay you off to go, oh, I guess I should look for a job.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, especially in this case because he's the sole income and the writing is.

[George Campbell]

Very much on the wall here. They're telling, telling you straight up.

[Ken Coleman]

And you know what else? I want to make sure I cover this. If your wife has the ability, I don't know what the family situation is, but if she has the ability to work, I would absolutely, for a season. If you can do it and it makes financial sense to do it, I would do it in this time as well. Stacking up a little bit of extra cash that might be able to help us if this thing goes and falls before you can, you know, get another job. So this is what. When we, we act like a storm is coming. And what do we do when we know a storm is coming? And let's act accordingly. So really, really important. Ethan is up in Athens, Georgia. Ethan, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. Really appreciate it.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

So I was driving a 2005 Toyota Camry and it got totaled. I have a year left in law school and I'm trying to set a budget on buying a new or not new car, but a used car.

[Ken Coleman]

Did you get any money for the Camry?

[Caller]

Yes, I got 6,000 for the Camry. I have about 10k in liquid cash and then another 40,000 right now in stocks non retirement.

[George Campbell]

You've just been investing on the side in single stocks?

[Caller]

Yeah, not single. I've been trying to buy like the bonds and mutual funds and stuff like that, but yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Do you have any debt?

[Caller]

No, no debt whatsoever.

[George Campbell]

Wow, you're Going through law school debt free?

[Caller]

Yes sir.

[George Campbell]

How'd you do that? Did you get a full ride or what?

[Caller]

Yeah, I did.

Wow.

[George Campbell]

Okay stud. All right. So you're asking us how much car should you get?

[Caller]

Pretty much, yeah.

[George Campbell]

Well, I mean you're gonna want something that'll get you through law school and beyond and so you can spend more than 6K. You're in a good spot financially. Are you working at all? Do you have any income right now?

[Caller]

Right now I have no income, but I already have a job set for next October once I pass the bar.

[Ken Coleman]

Fantastic. Will it be in the current area.

[Caller]

Or are you moving somewhere a bit more towards Atlanta?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Well George, I don't know if you got a formula for this because he doesn't have an income and he has no debt and he's going to be making really good money. What kind of money are you going to be making first year?

[Caller]

I'll be making 190 my first year.

[Ken Coleman]

Woo Bro.

[George Campbell]

Ethan Free.

[Ken Coleman]

Making that kind of money with a full ride.

[George Campbell]

Are you single?

[Caller]

Yeah. Not right now.

[Ken Coleman]

Not for long. With those numbers. Hey, the ladies will be coming around for that one.

[George Campbell]

I would just be reasonable for any young person. Especially dudes. They tend to over buy in car cuz they want to flex. I hope that's not you. You don't seem like the type. So I would just buy something reasonable. What have you been looking at? I know you've been car shopping.

[Caller]

Yeah, I've been just looking at new Camry, something like late teens with less than 100,000 miles. That's something newer. But I'm not spending everything that I have.

[Ken Coleman]

How much are those cars?

[Caller]

Between 15 and 20,000.

[George Campbell]

Perfect.

[Ken Coleman]

I was going to throw the number of 20 out and let George react to me. Just based on your situation, 20 felt.

[George Campbell]

Like my upper limit for just a young dude line.

[Ken Coleman]

20 is what I was going to say.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And stocks to do it. I would. I wouldn't be in any single stocks. I don't know why you're even in bonds at this age. You're not 70. You shouldn't be worried about long term market returns. If you want soul.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm going to guess he's an old soul.

[George Campbell]

Is that true?

[Caller]

Yeah. Something I inherited from my grandpa.

[George Campbell]

Okay, there we go.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I could hear it on you. You are very mature.

[George Campbell]

I would go car shopping. I would stick to independent used car dealerships and Facebook marketplace. Get a pre purchase inspection on whatever you get. And I would also search the exact year, make, model. Do your research and Know exactly what recalls have been made on that exact model. What are the classic repairs that tend to happen on that car. And that will give you a lot of confidence as you step into it.

[Caller]

All right, awesome. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet. And listen, buyer beware. Wear tight lipped. When you go to the car dealer.

[George Campbell]

Don'T tell them you're paying cash right up front.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't tell them that. Don't tell them you're in law school. Don't tell them you got $190,000 job waiting on you. They will be on you like vultures on roadkill. I mean, all over you. So just keep it tight like you're playing some poker.

[George Campbell]

Focus on the. Say, hey, I'd like to just talk about the out the door price. That's right. That's it. That's what I want to focus on. I don't want to talk about payments.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

Here's my budget. And if you walk in with a check for that amount.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh boy.

[George Campbell]

There, then you walk. You have some walk away power. Oh boy, I love that game.

[Ken Coleman]

These guys will start singing. They really will. They'll line up like a choir for you, you know what I mean? They'll be the manager, the assistant manager. You ever seen these guys? It's hilarious. There's always like seven people in the back, you know, they always have to go.

[George Campbell]

They have to go into the back to talk to some mysterious. Always figure, always love that my manager is going to take me to the cleaners if I give you this TV deal, man. But I'll do it for. I'll do it for you.

[Ken Coleman]

Hold on one second.

[George Campbell]

Don't tell anyone.

[Ken Coleman]

Give me a few minutes. I gotta go back. And it's like, it's like he's the wizard of Oz.

[George Campbell]

Do they all go to the same heebie GB sleazy school?

[Ken Coleman]

I think they have a little room with like a water cooler and they go and they just look at their phone for two or three minutes and then they come back and then they play the next.

[George Campbell]

They take a little vape break and then come back and say, all right.

[Ken Coleman]

I think it is a vape.

[George Campbell]

I could get in a lot of trouble for this one. Yeah, but we can make it work.

[Ken Coleman]

This is the best I can do. I love that one.

[George Campbell]

I can't stand it.

[Ken Coleman]

I can't either. I kind of want to just. Can I walk back there with you? Because I think we could speed this negotiation up if you walked me back to the wizard of Oz, I'm sure it's okay. I'm sure he's gonna be fine if I go back there with you. But it's the whole. You all stay out here. Can I get. Can I get you something to drink? Can I get you a bottle of water? No, you can get me a good deal.

[George Campbell]

That's all I'm here for.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't care about the bottle of water. In fact, my wife and I brought a coin cooler. We have our own bottle of water.

[George Campbell]

My wife can't go into those places. She has to sit in the car because she's too uncomfortable.

[Ken Coleman]

Stressful.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. I like the conflict. I like the negotiation.

[Ken Coleman]

You do. You know what you do? You get right to the fees.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I go from the window price to. What are the fees on this? I know you.

[George Campbell]

Oh, I don't do. If they have anything other than a small dock fee, I'm walking away. They start pitching me on, hey, we did the window tint and we get the. Nope. I. I'm out. Take that off of here. I'm getting out of here.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Sales price plus tax. Maybe $100 doc fee or I leave.

[Ken Coleman]

You might as well be on Shark Tank. I'll bet you sit there and you cross your arms.

[George Campbell]

Oh, the. The guys at the dealership, they see me coming in, they go, not today. I don't want to deal with this guy.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

My last car, though, the finance office called me and said, hey, we noticed you were paying cash, and we just think that's a terrible idea. It's a much better. It's smarter to find.

[Ken Coleman]

She screamed, do you. You know who I am?

[George Campbell]

I almost went, hey, just Google me. I can't deal with this right now.

[Ken Coleman]

You're so flex. That's a flex. Yeah. Hey, listen, Mr. Finance Manager, I'm going to send you a link I'd like to click on it.

[George Campbell]

It's called Breaking Free from Broke. You should read it.

[Ken Coleman]

Look at that, folks. He snuck the book promo in just like that. I didn't even see it coming. It's a great book. Wherever books are sold.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Ken Coleman]

Our scripture of the day comes from Hebrews 13, verse 7. Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Our quote from John F. Kennedy, Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names. All right. Two interesting things there. Contrasting.

[George Campbell]

I'll chew on that.

[Ken Coleman]

Chew on that. Tyler is up in Maryland. Tyler, how come we help.

[Caller]

Hey, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

Good, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm all Right.

[Ken Coleman]

How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I was calling in because I found myself in a situation. My wife and I, we recently moved October of 2024 from our first home to this being our second. And it was pretty much at the time of our price range, pardon me. We want. I've lived in eight different homes growing up and we have, we have a two year old son and just found out we have another one on the way. And it was really, yeah, he's a tornado. But it was really important to me that like we both wanted him to have like a house that he grew up. You know, all of our kids just had a house they grew up in. So we stretched. We knew that we would be all house poor, but we figured if we can, you know, tighten our belt and spend wisely, that eventually our salaries will kind of, I guess, catch up to where our mortgage was. And that was before I really got into Dave Ramsey and learn more about the finances. So since then we've been going on a year here and the mortgage is about $4,500 a month and our net income per month is about 9,400. So I think it's like a 47% which is double what I know is recommended. So in addition to that, we only have one car payment, which my truck, three years left on it, about 15,000 left.

[George Campbell]

What's the payment?

[Caller]

Payment's about 536amonth. My wife also has student loans which is probably a total like 20,000. And it was through the carrier that she was using, I guess had a class action lawsuit. I guess somebody advised her not to pay us. So we stopped and then that's now bringing her credit down. So now we're trying to get current on that. And then we have credit card debt which is probably total like around 20,000 between three different cards. So pretty much what I'm thinking, what I think is inevitable at this point with having a family and now realizing how expensive kids are and unknown expenses and activities for them and toys for them, I'm kind of thinking getting out of this house might be the best thing for our family to downsize the smaller house with a much lower mortgage. I just want to get your take on that.

[George Campbell]

What could you sell the house for and what's left on the mortgage?

[Caller]

So we bought it for about 600 and this is about a year ago. We're thinking about refinancing which would then put another 15 onto it because of the fees. But I think we won't get 600. I don't think I think it's going to be. And it would be a short sale.

[George Campbell]

Why would it be a short sale?

[Caller]

Well, I don't. It. It was on the market for probably about four months. It started out like 750, and they went all the way down to 600 before we. We bought it.

[Ken Coleman]

How much did you put down when.

[Caller]

We didn't put anything out by to the va.

[George Campbell]

Man, this is heartbreaking. Breaking.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's. I. I'm having buyer's remorse and I think I'm. I'm starting to realize what's. What's probably inevitable where my wife is, like, very in love with the house and, you know, it's perfect for a big family, which is what she wants. But I just, you know, I come home and it's like, I just feel like this is no peace at all. Like, I know.

[Ken Coleman]

Is she aware of this? Is she aware of how you're feeling?

[Caller]

Aware, yeah. We've talked about her. Her game plan, which is what we're doing now. I'm giving her the grace of just seeing how it works. Was tightening our belt more and not spending as much. Whatever surplus we have at the end of, you know, each week or each month, our checking account will just apply toward bills. But when I do our budget, between our net income and all the bills are the credit cards, loans, etc. We're like 1300 in the whole.

[George Campbell]

So you're going to continually go into debt at this rate?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yep.

[George Campbell]

You can't even live off of $9,400 a month.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So there's no tightening.

[George Campbell]

And is she working full time?

[Caller]

Yeah, we both work full time.

[George Campbell]

So there's no, you know, there's no dream here where we go, well, we're making double now because she's working full time. So if there's no room here to wiggle on income, you don't see your income shooting up in the next six months and you're going to continually go into debt. Then I think we just have to cut our losses and get out of this house. I would try to still get as much as you can for it.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

But you don't have any equity, so it doesn't really. It doesn't solve your problem. Problems. It's going to cost you money to get out of this house, and you don't even have that money.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

What could you sell the truck for?

[Caller]

On KBB, it looks like it was valued at around 10,000. So I'm a little upside down on it, which is what I'm trying to put My, you know, I drill monthly for the army, so I'm trying to put those checks toward this to pay it down as quickly as possible, man.

[George Campbell]

And this, I'm trying to figure out. Out how you have $5000 or 6000 or 7000 of expenses on top of the mortgage. Yeah, you guys are spending like you're in Congress. There's a lot of just entertainment, luxury eating out here. I think. I think it's more than just covering the bills.

[Caller]

Yeah, I agree. My. My wife, you know, well, when we. When we got in the house, it was. We were spending like kings and queens. It was our own default. You know, we had a really, a tough conversation about it about a month ago, and we're like, you know, we. We really tried. We went to like, a cash budget where, you know, we'll take out X amount each week once we get paid, and this is what we have to spend. There's no credit cards. We're not putting anything on debit card. So. But even in that, it's. We're still. We're still in the hole. Like just between kids stuff and now a new, you know, a new one on the way. It's. I just don't see it working out in our favor by staying in this house.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I mean, you're gonna. Could you go rent somewhere for two grand, three grand?

[Caller]

Yeah. In our area there. There's. There's some places that are rent for about 25 or 3,000.

[George Campbell]

Like, so that'll save you the 2 grand that you're, you know, losing. So instead of going 15 grand in today debt, maybe we could save 5 grand.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's a question I have, George and Tyler, I'm asking this on your behalf. You know, every dollar, which is obviously, it's not just a budgeting app. I mean, it's fpu. It's the baby steps. I mean, it's helping people. And when we talk about. On the show, we're telling people this is real, that in less than 15 minutes, people are finding thousands of dollars of margin. We know that from every dollar. That's what we're hearing. My question is if you're sitting in his kitchen.

[Caller]

Kitchen right now.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. How much do I think you could find? Money.

[George Campbell]

Oh, yeah. And that's why I'm saying whenever I see, well, the mortgage is 4,500, they're bringing in 10 grand. There's room here. There's some spending that we can ratchet down.

[Ken Coleman]

There is. There's more cutting.

[George Campbell]

It's going to be a fight. It's going to be. Well, I'm used to doing this, and now you're taking this away from me. And so I don't want this to be you versus her. This needs to be you walking hand in hand, looking in the same direction, going, going. We need to come to Jesus meeting because we're going to go 15 grand into the hole. The way we're spending, we already can't get out of this as is. We need to do something drastic, and that means selling the house and renting and cutting our spending and working a second job for at least two years to clean this up.

[Ken Coleman]

I really want you guys in every dollar. And that's going to be our gift to you. So Kelly's going to take care of it. You. You and your wife got to commit to using it. Do you understand what I'm saying? Because it. It literally, it will coach you up. It is so unbelievable, all the. The new things they've added to it. So you guys got to commit to getting in control of the spending and finding ways to make some more money after selling this house just to give you more margin. By the way, George, I want to mention this is super exciting. The premiere of the AllNew Every Dollar is September 25th. You're going to see some amazing success stories. You're a part of that. We want you to turn on your YouTube notifications to get notified when the premiere drops. And I've said it a couple times today, just kind of Naturally, George, 10 seconds or give us five seconds on the new Every Dollar. It's unreal.

[George Campbell]

Well, it's going to digitally coach you like we would on the Ramsey show and walk with you step by step through the baby steps on top of helping you do your budget.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, remember, there's only one way to get financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace Christ. Jes.