How A Bigger Paycheck Could Lead To Bigger Problems

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – How A Bigger Paycheck Could Lead To Bigger Problems

Release Date: December 27, 2024

Hosts: George Campbell & Dr. John DeLoney
Description: The Ramsey Show empowers listeners to build wealth and take control of their lives, addressing financial missteps and personal challenges through expert advice and real-life stories.

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Introduction

00:30 - 01:05
George Campbell welcomes listeners to the Ramsey Show from Ramsey Solutions headquarters. He introduces Dr. John DeLoney, bestselling author of Building a Non-Anxious Life, and briefly discusses their YouTube successes. They encourage listeners to call in at 888-825-5225 for live advice on money, mental health, relationships, and more.

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Caller 1: Jessica from Boston – Overcoming Debt Amid Crises

Overview:
Jessica and her husband, earning a combined income of over $300k (with nearly half tax-free through VA disability), find themselves in $85k of consumer debt after facing multiple crises, including postpartum depression, preterm labor, medical leave, sudden job loss, and purchasing a new home.

Key Points:

• Debt Breakdown: Initially debt-free, they incurred $50k-$65k in debt during a real estate peak in 2021. Subsequent medical and employment crises increased their debt to approximately $85k.
• Emotional Toll: Living paycheck to paycheck has strained their health and marriage.
• Solution Proposed:
  • Budgeting: Use Ramsey’s budgeting tool, EveryDollar, to list and cut non-essential expenses.
  • Debt Snowball: Allocate $10k monthly towards debt repayment, potentially selling cars or reducing other expenses to achieve this.
  • Expert Insight: Dr. DeLoney emphasizes accepting the new financial reality and making peace with reduced income, reinforcing their resilience and potential for future financial stability.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John DeLoney [05:11]: "Making that call when you're holding a baby is one of the scariest calls you can make... I'm so proud of you for doing that."
• George Campbell [07:25]: "This debt situation is going to start with some simple math, but it's going to end with some sacrifice and behavior change."

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Caller 2: Andrea from Arkansas – Managing Inherited Property and Relationship Stability

Overview:
Andrea is concerned about her husband’s mother inheriting a family hunting ranch worth about $1 million. After establishing an LLC, Andrea fears her mother-in-law might be trying to create an exit strategy in case of marital issues, given a history of divorces among siblings.

Key Points:

• Inheritance Dynamics: The ranch is now exclusively under her mother-in-law and her husband’s name after forming an LLC.
• Relationship Strain: Andrea worries this move could destabilize her marriage and financial security, especially concerning future inheritance and child support.
• Solution Proposed:
  • Evaluate Financial Independence: Dr. DeLoney suggests assessing who benefits financially and considering hiring a bookkeeper to manage the ranch operations.
  • Communication: Encourages open dialogue with her husband about estate planning and future implications.
  • Legal Consultation: Recommends consulting an attorney to understand the legal ramifications and protect her interests.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John DeLoney [11:45]: "Am I wrong for voicing my opinion in this matter? ... If you have voiced your opinion and your husband said I don't care... then your marriage has deeper issues."
• George Campbell [14:44]: "Figure out what the will looks like and what the estate planning journey looks like."

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Caller 3: Daniel from Cleveland – Strategic Financial Planning with Upcoming Inheritance

Overview:
Daniel, 23, married to a 24-year-old, has a three-month-old daughter. With a $150k mortgage at 5.6% interest and $100k in a high-yield savings account (including a $20k emergency fund), Daniel expects an additional $100k inheritance soon. They have zero debt but are unsure whether to pay off the mortgage or invest the inheritance.

Key Points:

• Financial Position: Robust savings and pending inheritance provide financial flexibility.
• Options Discussed:
  • Pay Off Mortgage: Eliminating the $1,200 monthly mortgage payment would reduce expenses and increase financial security.
  • Investing: While investing is beneficial, prioritizing debt elimination can offer immediate financial relief and long-term benefits.
• Additional Advice:
  • Retirement Planning: Maximize 401(k) contributions to gain employer matches and consider spousal Roth IRAs.
  • Future Investments: Encourage further investment strategies as they stabilize financially.

Notable Quotes:

• George Campbell [16:23]: "That’s going to lower your expenses... it's going to free you up with more margin to build wealth."
• Dr. John DeLoney [18:07]: "You’re a multimillionaire, giving very generously."

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Caller 4: Shelley from Dallas – Overcoming Guilt to Prioritize Therapy

Overview:
Shelley is grappling with the emotional barrier of allocating funds to therapy despite having the financial means and her husband’s support. Raised in a family that stigmatized mental health care, she feels guilty spending money on therapy.

Key Points:

• Mental Health Struggles: Shelley has a history of eating disorders, panic attacks, and chronic pain, which necessitate ongoing therapy.
• Financial Perspective: Therapy is viewed as an essential investment in her well-being rather than a frivolous expense.
• Solution Proposed:
  • Budget Integration: Incorporate therapy costs as a regular budget line item to normalize the expense.
  • Support and Resources: Offer three free months of BetterHelp and a copy of Dr. DeLoney’s book to reinforce the importance of mental health care.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John DeLoney [22:54]: "I think money is the excuse that presents itself, that gives you an out so that you don't have to go through this fire where healing's on the other side of it."
• George Campbell [25:18]: "Therapy is definitely worth being well."

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Additional Callers

Jane from Lawton, Oklahoma – Navigating Debt and Relationship Dissolution

Overview:
Jane, married for two years, faces financial and emotional turmoil as her husband refuses to provide money for necessities, leading to accumulated debt and strained marriage dynamics.

Key Points:

• Financial Control: Jane controls her income separately; her husband withholds financial support, causing increased debt.
• Emotional Abuse: Husband's controlling behavior extends beyond finances, impacting Jane’s autonomy and well-being.
• Solution Proposed:
  • Financial Independence: Encourage Jane to fully separate finances to protect herself.
  • Safety Planning: Develop a plan to ensure her and her daughter’s safety if separation becomes necessary.
  • Support Systems: Utilize trusted friends and counselors for emotional support during the decision-making process.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John DeLoney [53:54]: "This is control, this is power. ... You're standing up and speaking your virtues out into the world because you're going to wake up [...] you can get out of this prison."
• George Campbell [81:34]: “Choose guilt over resentment... you’re gonna choose that over hating the woman that you love.”

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Conclusion

74:21 - 85:15
The hosts wrap up by offering continued support and resources, promoting Financial Peace University and EveryDollar budgeting tools to empower listeners in managing their finances and personal challenges effectively.

Final Thoughts:

• Holistic Approach: The episode underscores the interplay between financial stability, mental health, and relationship dynamics.
• Empowerment Through Action: Encourages proactive budgeting, debt elimination, and seeking necessary mental health support as pathways to overcoming financial and personal crises.
• Community Support: Emphasizes the importance of leveraging support systems, whether through family, friends, or professional resources, to navigate complex life situations.

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Notable Resources Mentioned:

• EveryDollar: Budgeting tool provided to callers for managing finances.
• BetterHelp: Online therapy platform offered to Shelley.
• Financial Peace University: Educational program aimed at financial literacy and debt management.

Listeners are encouraged to visit www.ramseysolutions.com for more resources and support.

Transcript

[George Campbell]

Live from the headquarters Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John DeLoney, bestselling author of Building a non anxious Life. I guess I'm an aspiring best selling author. John, I just pre launched a book and I hope that it's successful as yours. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. It's on pre sale right [e-mail] store.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Work hard, George. Aspiring may you accomplish all of your dreams.

[George Campbell]

But we're both YouTubers, so we succeeded in that regard.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're crushing me on YouTube.

[George Campbell]

If that's success. Well, let's, let's take some calls. The number is Triple 882-55-5225. We'll help you take the right next step with your money, your mental health, your relationships, whatever it is. We will give you our advice. That is a guarantee. All right, let's start with Jessica in Boston. What's going on? Jessica?

[Caller]

Hi. So I'm wondering how my husband and I have. We're a family of five. We have three kids, five and under. We both work, we make a very good living north of 300k a year, which almost 50 of it is tax free because my husband receives VA disability pay monthly. But we are, we've had several crisis, crises I guess come up the past two years and we were debt free. But now due to the unexpected occurrences, we're now living beyond our means, paycheck to paycheck, have no savings. And you know, our emotional, our physical health is taking a toll, our marriage is taking a toll and we want to stop living paycheck to paycheck. How do we get out of this? And how can we repair the relationship along the way?

[George Campbell]

I'm sorry to hear what you're going through.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. What happened?

[George Campbell]

What were the crises?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we, the height of the real estate market, right. We, we sold our first house. You know, this is our opportunity to get debt free. We were probably, I want to say between 50 to 65,000 in debt. At the height of the market in 2021, we sold our first home, walked away scot free, paid off the entirety of our debt. And then I got pregnant with our third child. I was only six months postpartum and I was actually struggling with postpartum depression. In the interim, we had major complications. I was in preterm labor for almost three months and I am the breadwinner. Between me and him, very high pressured software sales, technology sales. I Should say job. Which forced me to need to take a medical leave of absence due to my postpartum getting so bad. It was literally for the safety of myself and my family that I had to take a medical leave. And the day I returned to work, I was laid off. In turn, we literally. Two weeks. Yeah, it was bad. So two, I want to say, a month prior to me going back to work, we had just closed on a new home, our forever home, and the bills piled up quick.

[George Campbell]

So how much debt are you in now?

[Caller]

It's probably, I want to say, between 22,000 to 25,000 total.

[George Campbell]

And what kind of debt?

[Caller]

Yeah, so it's unsecured. Loan debt, credit card debt. Should I include the car or no?

[George Campbell]

Yes, that's debt, isn't it?

[Caller]

Okay. Then it goes up from there. So I would tack on a total, an additional 60.

[George Campbell]

So you're probably $85,000 in consumer debt.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you back to working now?

[Caller]

I am. I am. I found a new job fairly soon, within a month, and I am working.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you still making 300,000?

[Caller]

Take some time to build the pipeline again.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. What. What's your husband do?

[Caller]

Yeah, he works for the government, and he was a Marine, and now he works for the government as a safety inspector for osha.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So I'm going to let George talk you through this. This debt situation, but I want to say a couple things. Okay?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The first thing is I'm really, really glad you're still here.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Making that call when you're holding a baby is one of the scariest calls you can make, right?

[Caller]

It is, yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Because there's that demon telling you that they're going to take your baby away. People are going to say you're crazy and they're going to lock you up. And I'm so, so proud of you for doing that. That's hard. And we're good now, right?

[Caller]

For the most. Most of the time. Well, I still have moments.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. There you go. Let me ask you this way. You're always going to be around here, right?

[Caller]

Yes, for sure.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good. The second thing is, if you haven't already, there's going to come a moment when y'all are going to have to. And the quicker you get here, the quicker you can begin to do the walk, the path that Jordan's going to lay out for you, you're going to have to make peace with. Grieve the crap out of, but make peace with, here's the life we had, and now here's the one we're in Right now.

[Caller]

Okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The more you try to quote unquote, get back to what we had, the more you're going to make yourself nuts because you're just going to run in a circle. You're going to be dragging what used to be. Right? So we used to have sixty thousand dollar cars. We don't anymore. We're a Camry family now. We used to have a humongous house. And we had our forever house. It's not our forever house anymore. You and me are forever husband, but the house isn't. And that's okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And we used to make 300 grand, now we don't. And maybe one day we will again. But that's not the world we're in right now. And so when you make peace existentially with those moments, then remember we had Alexis. Yeah. But now we got, now we got a Corolla and it gets us where we need to go. And you got a bunch of dope marine tattoos, but you're going to look awesome. Smoking hot getting out of a Camry. That's just the world we have now. Right? And it's not less than. It's just different. It's different. And it'll be back. It'll be back. You're. You're a hustler, your husband's a brilliant guy. I mean, you'll be back, but let's make peace with that new world. Right? And that new world is awesome, by the way. It's top 1% of planet Earth. It's a great world. Just we gotta let go of what used to be used to be awesome. And then we got laid off and it sucks. And here we are now. Now it's awesome again. Just a different kind of awesome.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so Jessica, this is going to start with some simple math, but it's going to end with some sacrifice and behavior change. You ready for it?

[Caller]

Absolutely. The mind is.

[George Campbell]

Is your husband on board too? This is an important factor.

[Caller]

He is.

[George Campbell]

He knows how you feel about all this. Okay. We're gonna get you to solid ground and I'll give you some options. It'll be a choose your own adventure. My guess is your take home pay is somewhere around 15 grand a month.

[Caller]

Yes? Correct.

[George Campbell]

So let's look at what our expenses are. What do we need to keep the household running? And you're gonna do that with a budget. I'm gonna gift it to you. It's called everydollar. I'm gonna give you the premium version. It's gonna have paycheck planning connect to your bank Account all the good stuff. Your homework is to list out every single expense you have as a family and ruthlessly cut out the stuff that doesn't matter that you don't need right now. You got that? Okay, give me a rough estimate of what that would add up to.5 grand.

[Caller]

For cutting out or the total expenses.

[George Campbell]

That would keep the house, running, food, shelter, utilities, transportation, all that.

[Caller]

Probably 12.

[George Campbell]

12 grand.

[Caller]

Yep. That's our nanny included, child care included.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Oh my.

[George Campbell]

Okay, this is what, remember those sacrifices I mentioned, Jessica? This is where we might have to figure out how to get that 12 grand down to five. So we have 10,000 to throw at the debt and we can be done in eight months. That might mean selling the cars. If you can't make those sacrifices, might.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Mean letting the nanny go for a season.

[George Campbell]

This is not going to be fun. But your life on the other side is going to be way better for it. So hang on the line. We'll gift you every dollar. We are wishing you the best.

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[George Campbell]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George campbell, joined by Dr. John DeLoney. Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? Why refi? Refinances defaulted, private student loans defaulted meaning when the borrower can't make the required payments. So if that describes you and you've got private student loans, contact Y Refi. They can offer you a low fixed rate loan built for you. Go to yrefi.comramsey today. That's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be available in all states.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Today's question comes from Andrea in Arkansas. My husband's mom inherited the Family hunting ranch. I would love to get this call one day which is worth about a million dollars. My husband and I pay most of the expenses. We use our personal equipment to maintain it and we are the ones who schedule and host hunters. I also handle all the bookkeeping. Andrea, call me. So I told my mother in law that an LLC needs to be created for the amount of business we do. She met with her attorney and now the ranch is now only in hers and my husband's name. I feel like she's trying to cause a rift between my husband and me. I'm trying not to judge their family history, but every one of the other four kids are divorced. This seems to be her way of creating an easy way out of it if we were to divorce. My husband and I have a strong relationship and he assures me not to worry because this will change nothing in our marriage. But I'm the one doing all the leg work and hoping this doesn't mess up our relationship. Am I wrong for voicing my opinion in this matter? What happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? We have two questions. We have two kids that will need to be cared for and we earn nothing from the ranch.

[George Campbell]

That those last four words tell me a whole lot. We are. That's really the resentment. She's putting a whole lot of work in. She's getting $0 for it and her name's not attached to it. So there seems to be. That's all playing into this picture.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. There's a. This is a mess.

[George Campbell]

They use their personal equipment to maintain it. They're the ones scheduling doing all that. She's doing the bookkeeping and she's the one handling telling the mother in law to meet with this person. And I personally don't know the full story. I don't know if the mother in law is being malicious. If this is really a strategic move. This was inherited family land and property.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right.

[George Campbell]

That she inherited. So there. The. The daughter in law doesn't have a right to this land even though she's doing work for. For this property.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And I. Yeah. So there's multiple things happening here. I think. George, I think one of them is you're running a business that doesn't make any money. Stop. Stop running a business that doesn't make money.

[George Campbell]

Who is making the money? That's the question.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

The only thing I could think of.

[George Campbell]

We earn nothing. So like the husband. She's not getting anything. The husband's not. Is mom making all the money?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah. So if husband is using all of his tools and stuff like that to help because he wants to help out mom and he's the one good kid. He's the. All the other kids are divorced and causing problems and he's the one good kid. So he's just going to dump some money into this thing. That's. That's one thing. If it's mom's property and she wants to bring on your husband as a co owner of an LLC in case she passes away, it's easy to go to him. I wouldn't lose sleep over that. But the fact that you're asking this question tells me there's something else going on here. And if you had trust in your mother in law because of the way she has treated you in the past and this came up, you wouldn't think twice about it, right? If my in laws, one of my in laws, my father in law or my mother in law was to do a joint venture with my wife that I helped with, I wouldn't think twice about it because I trust both of them implicitly with forever. This tells me there's other trust issues and that mom's maybe been trying to cut you out for a long time. And this is another way she kind of edged. Anyway, whole thing's messy. So I would ask this way, number one. If your husband likes hunting on this property and it's fun and he likes doing it and he likes to make a little side muscle, side money bringing in hunters in. Y'all figured that out. Even if you bring inside money and all it does is pay the taxes on the land and pays for the feeders. Fine. If husband's trying to do this to win mom's favor and maybe one day she'll leave it to him. Hopefully if she. And now we're getting into messy stuff and if you're running a business that's not earning anything, you need to have that conversation. Yeah, whole thing's a mess. But I want to go back to this one question here. Am I wrong for voicing my opinion on this matter? If you are a part of a marriage where both people have a voice and both people can be heard and to say what's on their hearts and on their minds. No, no. If you have voiced your opinion and your husband said I don't care, don't worry about it, then nagging or complaining or going to war is not going to solve the problem, then your marriage has deeper issues, which is your husband doesn't really care what your opinion is on these matters. He's going to do what he's going to do. You only need to address that core issue, right?

[George Campbell]

Yeah. And talk to him. You said what happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? Figure out what the will looks like and what the estate planning journey looks like and what will happen with this, his. The LLC that he's a part of. I would, I think you have a right to know what would happen there. But I also wouldn't. I feel like there's just more resentment here because of the effort she's putting in. So maybe she goes, I'm going to back out of this and y'all can hire a bookkeeper.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's exactly right. You can hire a bookkeeper. You can hire somebody who is booking these hunts. I'm going to step out and just be with the kids.

[George Campbell]

There you go.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And it's not a job. It's not like we're going to lose money on it. And y'all knock your lights out if that's something you want do on the side.

[George Campbell]

Not much to lose here. All right, let's go to the phones. Daniel is in Cleveland. Up next. What's going on? Daniel?

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks guys for taking my call.

[George Campbell]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I'm 23 years old. My wife is 24. We have a three month old daughter. My wife stays at home. I'm a nurse. Our yearly income is probably around 60,000. We bought a house around six months ago. We have about $150,000 loan at like 5.6% interest, I think. So my question is we have about $100,000 in a high yield savings account. I mean, it looks like we'll end up getting another hundred thousand from like an inheritance basically within the next month. We have zero debt. I'm just, I guess just like looking forward, I guess. Should I be paying off my home? I just don't know exactly, I guess what to do with the money. I just don't want it to sit there.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. So the 100,000 in the high yield, does that include your emergency fund? Does that build into that?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's built into that, yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so what number would that be? Let's separate it out.

[Caller]

I think probably around 20.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Thousand.

[George Campbell]

So 80,000 is freed up. You've got a hundred coming in from the inheritance. You owe 150 on the mortgage. I would pay off the house as soon as that inheritance comes in.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

That's going to lower your expenses. You've got a stay at home wife. It's going to free you up with more margin to build wealth to give to up the lifestyle, whatever it is you want to do with that. But that's absolutely what I would do, especially as you filter it through the baby steps. Are you guys currently investing 15% of your income?

[Caller]

No, we're not. So I haven't invested anything yet. I'm just starting to try to. I honestly haven't listened to Dave Ramsey much other than in the last few months.

[George Campbell]

Cool.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Welcome to the cult, brother. We're glad you're here.

[George Campbell]

That means you're trying to better your finances and your family's future. So I love that. So I would begin, I'm sure as a nurse, you have a retirement plan, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think they match like I think 4% on a 401k. So I need to do that. And then my wife actually has a Roth IRA that her father set up a long time ago. She hasn't put much money into it since then, but.

[George Campbell]

Well, you can deposit money into there because of a spousal Roth ira. So even if that spouse isn't working because you're married, you know she's married to you, you can have, you know, that earned income from you going into that account. So you could max out two Roth IRAs. You could put the 4% to get the match and invest that way. And I'll walk you through this in my book Breaking Free from Broke and show you that path to building wealth. So I'll send you a copy of that. But the spark notes here is I'd get that house paid off. What's your mortgage payment?

[Caller]

It's around 1200.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So I'm guessing principal and interest is a big chunk.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think we're paying $800 in interest. Just the way that they set up the, you know, the. The loan.

[George Campbell]

What a gift to make 23 and 24 and not a payment in the world. With plenty of money in the bank. If you just keep living like that, you're be a multimillionaire, giving very generously.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know, what if you pay the house off tomorrow, you just got a raise to $72,000 a year.

[Caller]

Yeah, because of the.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It makes sense.

[Caller]

I mean, I guess like for us, I'm just feel like I'm at somewhat of a pivotal point because I'm just don't know exactly what I want to do. I also am thinking about going back to school to try to increase, obviously our yearly income. I'm really hoping my wife can continue to stay home.

[George Campbell]

No house payment. With money in the bank, you can, and it'll give you the margin to do that without needing seven side jobs so you can be there with those young kids, bro, you don't have a house payment. This is a great place to be.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You won. You won. If you don't screw this up and go take out stupid student loans because, well, if you're an anesthesiologist and you can, don't take out any loans, grind it. Take this extra money and spend it. Invest it in yourselves, bro. George, you're right, dude. You won. You won.

[George Campbell]

If you never have a payment again at 23 years old, you're gonna be just fine, my man. Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsey Show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's that time of year. It's starting to get a little bit colder. It's getting a little bit dark earlier. And sometimes if you're like me, you just want to stay inside and get cozy. And for me, my perfect cozy night is me and all of my family piled under blankets watching a movie, sitting by fire, maybe even reading a book. Listen, whatever your perfect night in looks like, sometimes therapy can feel a bit like that. A time when you can settle in, finally, exhale, replenish your energy, and begin to take care of yourself. Therapy is a great way to bring yourself some comfort during the chaos and rush of the holiday season or any other time of year. Taking the time to pause and be mindful is one of the reasons I Recommend Better Help. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy with licensed therapist. You can talk with your therapist just about anytime and just about anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. Just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a therapist and you can switch therapists for no extra cost. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com DeLoney to get 10% off your first month. That's better. Help. H E L p.com DeLoney.

[George Campbell]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Give us a call at Triple 882-55-2225. If you want to jump into the conversation and talk about your money, your life, your relationships, your mental health, your boundaries or lack thereof, we want to help you take the right next step. Shelley joins us up next in Dallas, Texas. Shelley, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my calls. I'm really just calling because I'm, I've been listening to the show a lot and I know the baby steps and everything. And I know that I'm in a position where I can Afford therapy. But my question is, it's just. Well, it's not more of a question. It's just an emotional issue around spending the money on therapy. I just feel bad. I know I need it and my husband supports me, but, you know, just. It just makes me feel bad to spend. It costs a lot, and my insurance doesn't cover the license therapy part of it.

[George Campbell]

So what's it going to cost for you to get this help?

[Caller]

Well, I was looking at, like, betterhelp, and, you know, there's. I even saw some more affordable options, too, but. So I did sign up with better help. And I'm just feeling like I'll try it for, you know, the first four weeks and then cancel it. I start something, you know, I'll start it. And I started therapy before, but it was just costing like 100 a week. And then I was.

[George Campbell]

Do you feel like this is a wasteful expense in your budget right now? Like, hey, this money should be going toward this. What's behind that?

[Caller]

I think start feeling like, I don't know. It's in a part of my anxiety. It's part of the reason why I think I need therapy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, I. I think it has nothing to do with money. I think money is the excuse that presents itself, that gives you an out so that you don't have to go through this fire where healing's on the other side of it.

[Caller]

Yeah, it could be. I don't know.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I think you should go.

[Caller]

It's all confusing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I honestly, I don't. The feelings might be confusing, but even if you guys were up to your eyeballs in debt and you needed to go to counseling, we would tell you to stop paying off your debt, pause. And go to counseling. Get the help you can care that you need.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm trying to wrap. I'm trying to. It's. You can tell yourself, I know this is so important, my health, but it just feels. It just hurts to pay it. I don't know. I was raised poor, you know, grew up in a poor family, and we're doing really well now, and I just.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Feel like that's it right there. That's it right there for the future. You know why? Because when you grew up, other people, those people over there, they got counseling. They took, quote, unquote, took care of themselves. We don't got time for that. We don't need that. Only weaklings and wimps do that. Yeah, right.

[Caller]

It was. You didn't even want to say, oh, I need therapists, because you would, in my family, would Be like, oh, well, you're crazy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You know what? In your family. Tell me if I'm wrong. In your family, you didn't say that you needed anything.

[Caller]

No, I actually struggled with eating disorder and everything, starting when I was a teenager. Now I'm in my 40s and having panic attacks, and I had a traumatic event last year. Medical with neuropathy for chronic pain for like eight months in my face.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's time. And it's time.

[Caller]

I can't sleep without heavy medicine.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's time. It's time. Whatever it takes.

[George Campbell]

If there was a medication, shelly, that was 300amonth, but it changed your life, would you say that was a worthy 300 to spend that wasn't wasteful?

[Caller]

Yeah. And. Well, I am spending a lot on my psychiatrist for the medicine, so that's that. I have to have that or I just can't function.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But your psychiatrist has been telling you for a long time, I'm going to give you these meds, but you need to go talk to somebody. Haven't they.

[Caller]

Yeah, he did say CBT would help.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Me correct this time.

[George Campbell]

I think we need to refile this in our brain as this is not a wasteful thing that I could be spending in this. And this is. It's too much in our budget into, hey, this is like paying for insurance. This is keeping the lights on. This is paying for the Internet bill. This is going to add so much utility and value to my life that I can't imagine not doing it. And it may not be forever. This may be a season that you go through, and then it's over.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah. I was kind of wondering about. I know everyone's different, but I was wondering about, like, on average, kind of how. How long it could take. You know, I've had friends tell me, oh, it took so and so a year to. To really. But if you struggle.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Listen, if you struggle, if. If you've struggled with disordered eating since you were a child and you grew up in a pretty tough place and it's pretty tough situation, and if you think so little of yourself that the idea of spending money to make sure you're whole and well, so that you can show up for you and for your husband and for others, if that shuts your body down or sets off your body's alarms, it's going to be a while. So I think it's counterproductive or. I'm telling you it's counterproductive to say, okay, I'll give you four, and then I quit. That's like Going to the. To the car dealer and saying. Or to the mechanic and saying, hey, everything's broken on the car. You got 30 minutes. And then I'm just gonna come pick it up.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to completely reframe stress.

[Caller]

On myself that I put the stress on myself, that I feel like I have to hurry up and fix myself in this amount of time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Right. And you're not somebody. Listen, I used a bad analogy. You're not somebody to be fixed. Okay? You're not broken. Your body's working exactly as it should given the set of circumstances you grew up in, plus some genetics. And what you're going to learn is different ways your body can get through a day. That's. That's what counseling is going to do. It's going to let you practice. It's going to teach you relationship. It's going to teach you some new skills over time. Your body's going to learn, hey, we weren't safe then, we're safe now. All of that is worthy of an investment. Go. Don't think twice about it. And. And listen to this. This is important. Your feelings are not designed to tell you the truth. Your feelings are designed to keep you safe given a set of circumstances. So this morning, I did not feel like writing in a journal. I didn't. But I did it because I am a better husband and a better dad. On the other side of that, when I get all this crap out of my head and out of my body and on a piece of paper, I will not feel like working out. When I get home tonight, I won't feel like it at all. I'm tired. It's the weekend and I'm gonna go do it because I promised myself I would. And it makes me a better fill in the blank. A fill in the blank. So your feelings. I feel like I want to quit. Cool. I get that. I'm gonna acknowledge those feelings. That's real. And then I'm gonna keep going. And I feel like I'm wasting money. Cool. I. Your body's. Your body grew up poor. It put a GPS pen in poverty. It put a GPS pen and stop spending money on quote unquote. You getting well? Cool. I feel that. And I'm going to go anyway because I'm going to get well. I'm worth being well.

[George Campbell]

That's a good word, John. And tactically, Shelley, adding this as a line item in your every dollar budget that says Shelley's therapy. And then, you know what's going to happen is December, it's going to Feel like, oh gosh, that $300 came out for those sessions. Then January, it's like, oh yeah, we have that in the budget. Then February, it's like, oh yeah, we've had this in the budget. And all of a sudden it becomes normal, especially as you excel through the baby steps and you get to a different place financially. There's expenses in my wife and I's budget that, you know, 23 year old George would be like, whoa, that guy's blowing some money into us. It's no, we're buying ourselves peace. We're buying our time back with some of these things. And it's. Therapy is not a luxury. It is financially for people who can't afford it, but it's not a frivolous expense. It's definitely worth being well. And John talks about this in his new book, Building a Non Anxious Life, which I'd love to send Shelley a copy of that. John, if you don't mind.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Absolutely. And stay on the line, I'm going to hook you up with three free months of betterhelp with my friends there. Okay, I'm gonna take that excuse away. Three free months of better help. But if you and your therapist decide, hey, it's probably best if you keep going, I want you to keep going and stay plugged in.

[George Campbell]

That's very kind of you, John. You wield that kind of power here on the Ramsey show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I don't. I've got an extraordinary partner with better help and they really, really care about people getting well. And so it's their generosity, not mine.

[George Campbell]

That's very kind. So hang on the line, Shelly. We're going to send you a copy of Dr. John DeLoney's best selling book, Building a Non anxious life and three months of BetterHelp on us to get you started on this path. We are cheering you on and I'm proud of you. That's a, that's not an easy thing to call into a national radio show and put that all out there and go, I'm struggling with this. I want to get the help I need. And I know a lot of people are benefiting from this call who probably need to take that next step too. John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Dude, I remember being a 6 foot 2, 195 pound Texas male sitting at my kitchen table while my little boy was asleep and my wife was asleep in the other room weeping at my kitchen table because I knew I had to. And I also felt like such a wimp and such a weakling and such a coward and all those things. And I went and it's changed everything. Go get the help and care that you need.

[George Campbell]

Thanks so much for the call, Shelly. More of your calls coming up. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll be right back.

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[Dr. John DeLoney]

888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney joined here by my good friend George Camel. Let's go out to Alexis in Phoenix. Hey, Alexis, what's happening?

[Caller]

Hi, can you hear me okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Absolutely. What's up?

[Caller]

All right. So I'm 15. My mom just told me this morning that my parents have had to dip into their savings the past two months.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

My mom has stayed home with us and homeschooled us for 10 years and she's going to have to get a part time job. And I'm just wondering how my savings and how me saving for my future fits into that because I kind of feel guilty having extra money every month or having my own money putting into savings while they're struggling.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, man, they are lucky. They are. They are lucky to have you as their kid.

[George Campbell]

You are the oldest 15 year old I've ever talked to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's fantastic. Okay, I'm gonna tell you something really hard to internalize and you're gonna hear these words and your, your guts aren't gonna believe me. Okay, okay. It's not your job. You are doing an incredible job planning for your future. And your parents have made grown up choices. Like whatever job your dad is working at is a choice. He's chosen to work and that's his trade, that's what he does. And your mom made a choice. We want to stay at home. That was a collective values based decision that they made. And then there was a math problem they ran into. And like adults all over the country, brave adults are saying, okay, this is what we wanted. This isn't gonna be, this isn't the way this is gonna work out for a while. So we're gonna have to alter our plan and do something else. And so I'm actually proud of your parents for doing that. It's awesome. It's just gonna look different. Okay. The greatest thing you can do for your parents is you take care of your business in the classroom. You take care of your business like as a teammate around that house. Right. Make sure you take care of your responsibilities with excellence, which I know you do. And be sober minded. Be intentional about planning for the future. What college is going to look like, what it's going to cost, where are you going to go, what are you going to study, all of those things. That's the way you support your parents. Not by taking your part time job money and trying to keep the lights on. Now they make them a moment when they ask you for that doesn't sound like that's what's happening. It sounds like your mom set. Sat you down like a good mom. She actually sounds incredible. Sat you down and said, hey, we've have some hard realities that we're dealing with. And so I'm gonna have to go to work and so home's gonna look a little different for a season. Is that what happened?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I, I applaud her because a lot of parents would try to hide that. They'd be ashamed of that, they'd be scared of that. And your mom did the right thing. She sat down and told you a hard truth. And that also means that she trusts you. Does that make sense? That she thinks you're wise enough to hear that, that scary, that scary stuff. Okay. But keep that in your mind and in your heart. It's not your job. Okay?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you believe me?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, you don't. But it's okay. It's okay if you don't.

[George Campbell]

So there are some tactical things you can do, Alexis. One is, you know, you're 15, you're starting to enter that age where you can go get some part time jobs. And one thing you can do is instead of going, hey, mom and Dad, I want the new iPhone. It's twelve hundred dollars. You can go work for that and save for that and you cover your own expenses of things that are kind of the luxuries in your life. You don't have to go pay the water bill, but you can cover, you know, going out to the movies with your friends. It sounds like you already do that.

[Caller]

Yeah. Oh yeah. I wasn't sure if that was okay for me to continue to have like.

[George Campbell]

Absolutely. I think that's great. Yes. Flexing that muscle at 50. I wish John and I were that smart at 15.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Goodness gracious, I didn't know what day.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It was when I was 15. And yes, you listen. We often think that pain is some zero or that grief is some zero. And what that means is that George loses his job and I get a flat tire and I am upset, I'm whining about my flat tire. And George goes, oh, yeah, you think that's bad? I lost my. Listen, grief and sadness aren't some zero. You can go have joy while your parents are making life adjustments at their home because one doesn't you notice you just sitting at home and not having fun and not hanging out with your friends and spending your spending money by going to the movies. You doing that doesn't help the, the bills get paid. You see what I'm saying?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It's just you joining into their misery into something that you didn't cause. It's not your job. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And so, yeah, go have fun with your friends. I love what George says. If you know, hey, now's not the time to go ask for the iPhone, whatever 13 or 17 or whatever number they're up to now, that's cool, that's fine. But do go have joy in your life. Okay.

[George Campbell]

And I'm gonna do one, one better for you, Alexis. I'm gonna gift you Financial Peace University. And one thing you can do is you're casually hanging out, living room watching Financial Peace University, and you go, hey, mom, dad, if you want to join me, like, I'm learning so much in this. If you guys want to join me, I think it'd be really cool for us to go through it together. And not as a place from a place of shame, of like, hey, mom, and you're just telling me you guys are broke. This might be good for you.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I called a couple of Idiots on the I got you solved.

[George Campbell]

Telling the person who wiped your butt, you know, seven years ago this. So just go watch it yourself. And I think you modeling that might inspire them, motivate them, give them some hope. And when the time comes, you're gonna get older and they're gonna be asking you for advice.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

And so it's a great place to be. So hang on the line, Jenna's gonna pick up. We're gonna gift you financial peace university for one year as well as every dollar premium. And you can get on a budget at 15. And they might see you doing that and go, what was that you did? That's pretty cool.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Go ahead and send her Anthony Oneals debt free degree to Jenna and she can start reading on now and caboodle college is going to look, look like in the future. All right, let's go to Vanessa in Charleston. Hey, Vanessa, what's going on?

[Caller]

Can you hear me?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes, ma'am. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay. I'm so grateful to talk to you. Thank you. I'm struggling with some issues.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, bring it on. We are too.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah. There's so many details. I'm gonna try to keep it nice and tidy.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

I'm 51 years old. I've dated a man for about 10 years. We've lived together. I'm wanting to end the relationship kind of. My issue is when we met, I sold the house that I'd raised my kids in and I had went through Dave Ramsey and I had cleared all my debt. So when we met, I was debt free and I had a little bit of money in the bank. About four years ago, we bought a house close to my daughter and it was real small. And then another house came up around the corner and it was in foreclosure. I got a decent deal on it, so I bought it. I own another house about 20 minutes away. And part of my issues are number one, I'm wanting to end the relationship with my boyfriend. My other issue is I'm having some domestic issues with my daughter, if you will. And I think maybe some space sometimes some part, you know, some space between us would be good. So I have a total of four houses.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's your mortgage total on those four houses?

[Caller]

I'm broke. When I leave the relationship, I'll have nothing other than these houses and my income.

[George Campbell]

Is his name on these, on the deeds?

[Caller]

No, not on these.

[George Campbell]

So you, your name only is on all these deeds?

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so can you sell all four houses?

[George Campbell]

Yes, I Think it's time to start fresh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So my issue with it is, I mean, you know, my daughter's having some issues, you know, is having four.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is having being broke and having all of your money tied up in these four houses going to help your daughter?

[Caller]

No, no, no. I guess where I'm struggling with it is, well, I mean, two of the houses are rented out. Do I sell the rentals and try to save the house that I'm in, which is not necessarily desirable to me? It's the nicest of the houses. But it's nice to me because I'm close to my grandkids. But my daughter and I are having some issues trying to decide whether or not to put space between us or what. You know what I mean? Or do I.

[George Campbell]

When are the leases up for the renters?

[Caller]

When do I. The first of the year.

[George Campbell]

Then we say we're not renewing the lease. I'm selling the properties.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Here's what. Here's what I want here. Here's what I want you to do. Start thinking of it this way. You're trying to look at this as a math problem, as a mothering problem, as a mental health issue problem, as a relationship problem. Whenever my life gets this chaotic, I'm going to clean up my environment and take as many variables off the table as possible. And right now, you are leveraged to the gills in four houses that you can't afford, and it doesn't sound like you even want them. And if I'm you again, I would talk to an attorney before you start dividing all this up, because he may be claims to this and that. I'm going to take the variables that I can control off the table. I can't control the relationship mess. I can't control my daughter's situation. We're going to have to work through that. I can control how chaotic my life is trying to run four households at the same time. I'm going to sell the houses and clear that debt. George, what do you think?

[George Campbell]

Agreed.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Awesome. All right. Hey. This first hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Thank you for listening. We'll be right back.

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[George Campbell]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel, joined by my good friend and one of America's favorite Johns, Dr. John DeLoney. And we are here for you, America, taking your calls at 888-255-2225. Maybe you need some advice, some motivation. Maybe you need to take that next step with that broken relationship, the toxic boss, the debt that's been hanging over your head for far too long, and you're just ready to make some changes and live a better, more peaceful life. That's what we're all about on this show. Mary is going to kick us off in Cleveland, Ohio. Mary, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. How are you doing today?

[George Campbell]

Doing well. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm gonna be honest, I'm a little nervous and anxious right now.

[George Campbell]

We got you, Mary. It's just us here. Just us girls. Let's talk.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

What's going on?

[Caller]

So I'm calling in because my husband is a gambling addict and has been since January of this year when it became legal in Ohio. It has caused the heaviest toll on our marriage, on our relationship, our family. And I'm at the point where I have tried many routes with this, trying to be very gracious on how I go about it, trying to be respectful as a wife, trying to support his mistakes, but trying to get him the help he needs, and nothing is working. And at this point, he is very adamant about continuing to do it. And I'm at the point where I feel that I need to, you know, take my daughter and take a step away, not divorce, but maybe take some separation until he figures it out. But I honestly don't want to have to do that. But I don't know what else to do right now.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What makes you think that or what's happening that you feel like I need to get me and my daughter out of this to be safe? I think you're right. I think you're right, by the way. But I want you just to articulate what something else is going on, like what's happening in your home.

[Caller]

It's just an extremely tense environment. We argue all the time, which, you know, we.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you arguing because he's losing thousands and thousands of dollars or arguing because he's just glued to his phone all the time and he's angry because he wins and loses or as most. As is most of the time the gambling behavior and the addictive actions that are keep. Like this compulsion is indicative of a much bigger issue in your marriage. Y'all don't talk to each other. You don't listen to each other. There's no intimacy. It's just become a mess. And gambling is the way he's choosing to handle that, that global dysfunction inside your home.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

All of it.

[Caller]

Yes. And, I mean, the line is the biggest thing.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So anytime somebody has a boundary inside of a marriage that they're thinking about laying down, right? Like, this is. This is my. This is my final straw. This is my line that I won't cross anymore. I always want to encourage them to have an or what statement, because the person they laid the boundary down is gonna want to know.

[Caller]

Can you give an example?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yes. So you need to have an or what statement. You sit down with your husband and say, if we don't go to marriage counseling by the end of this weekend, or if we don't have a date on the calendar by the end of this weekend and it's next week, and if you don't go, here's the or what. Me and our daughter are moving out.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Period. You just have to be prepared for the or what? Because the or what comes with a lot of complexity. And I know it sounds super cool to be like, you. Like, you're gonna. You can Google this, and on these stupid websites, they're going to tell you, like, just leave him. You don't deserve that. Sounds all well and good, but there is a significant financial complexity to this. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah. And I. I mean, I really don't want it to have to come family together.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Of course you do. I want you to keep this front and center as you move forward. You are simply doing what you have to do to keep your family safe and responding to somebody that's thrown a grenade inside your home.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You're not the one doing this. And he will paint you as the villain here.

[Caller]

He has.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. Because he gets to whatever he wants to do, whenever he wants to do it, with, quote, unquote, yalls money. And he can. You're just whining and nagging and complaining and. On online gambling. Online sports gambling is destroying individuals and homes across this country, period. And, dude, I always watch the fights. I love watching the games. I love having some fun with my friends. So it's not that I'm like this fuddy duddy that sits in my house and plays bingo all the time. I love. I love the whole environment. And yet this is destroying people.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you've told him that and he has told you. I don't really care what you have to say. I'm going to keep doing whatever I want to do.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I mean, it's. It's been the past few months, I guess, to give just some quick context, so pretty much in a lump sum, he has spent between 30 to 40 thousand dollars.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Has he lost it?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. Like he's lost all of it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

We don't. There, there's no. I mean, he's, you know, won a couple thousand here or 100 here, things like that, but it's, it's. He's all together since the beginning of this year. It's been around $40,000.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And can we be honest? This is what you know about. I promise there's more.

[Caller]

This is all I know about.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let me ask you some a very tactical question. If you move out, do you have, do you have a job? Do you have money?

[Caller]

Yes, I have a job. But we. So he's in nursing school, so hold.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

On, hold on, hold on. He is making choices. You're keeping yourself safe. If he's in nursing school, then he gets to take care of his pay for nursing. He gets to make all those choices on his own. You need to have your four walls covered for you and your baby if you choose to.

[George Campbell]

Do you have your own bank account?

[Caller]

Yes, I actually did probably about two months ago at this point. That was one of the steps I took, was separating our finances.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We never recommend that except in this moment. Does it direct. Does your check direct deposit into that account?

[Caller]

It's still in our joint, and I will just say so pretty much, because we don't have any, like, we don't have any financial security right now. So with my job and his job, we get paid each week. So I get paid, and then he gets paid the following and so on, so forth. So with our money that we have right now, I want to take money from, like, my check and put it into ours. But then all the bills come out from our joint because we haven't switched any of those yet. So all of, like, pretty much each paycheck that we get each week is going towards bills, going towards groceries and gas, and then there's nothing left over.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I want you to get with a friend and I want you to map this out. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

And you're gonna have to move your direct deposit to your new account. And you would know as well as I do he's gonna hit the roof, isn't he?

[Caller]

Yeah, he already did. When I. I mean, everything I do he get. He does.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's right. Are you safe?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. He's not gonna hit you or hurt you?

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so we are getting with a friend and we're going to map this out. What's an apartment going to cost? What are the light and water bill going to cost? And we're going to get all this mapped out and lined out. We're going to make sure that our check can cover that. And you might need to get some new hours and all that kind of stuff, child care, all those things. And then we're going. We're going to sit down and be very articulate and clear about my or what statement this changes or here's what I'm going to do. You can't control anything he does. You can only control what you do. I hate that during this situation. Stay on the line. We're going to hook you up with every dollar so you can begin to control what you can control if and when you have to step away. We'll be right back.

[Caller]

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[George Campbell]

This is the Ramsey Show. I'm George campbell joined by Dr. John DeLoney this hour. The number to call to ask your question is 888-255-225. Jane joins us up next in Lawton, Oklahoma. Jane, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi, how are you?

[George Campbell]

We're doing great. How can we help you today?

[Caller]

Oh, okay. So this is tough. So I've been married about two years, and before we got married, I agreed to not sharing the bank account. I understood his reservations. I do have a full time job. All right. And a couple of months ago I thought, well, maybe I really do need to learn to manage my finances better because according to him, like, I haven't proven that I know how to manage money. And I started listening to the Dave Ramsey show because I thought that, you know, I knew of the Ramsey Network and I have realized that my problems are a lot more intense than I really than just a financial disagreement or a communication issue. Oh. You know, he's gone half of the time with his job and he doesn't leave. He will not give me money for groceries, any necessities. Anytime I bring that up, he tells me I need to manage my money better.

[George Campbell]

Do you have a debit card?

[Caller]

Do I have a debit card.

[George Campbell]

How much money, like control and access does he give you to money?

[Caller]

Oh, zero.

[George Campbell]

So you can't spend a dime if you even wanted to?

[Caller]

No. I mean, I have my money, like my paycheck, but that's it.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And you're working full time?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Do you have any kids?

[Caller]

I mean, I have one daughter.

[George Campbell]

How old is she?

[Caller]

10.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Is he the dad?

[Caller]

No.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. All right. Are you safe?

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, physically? Yes.

[George Campbell]

How?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

All right, I'm going to trust you. The data suggests that guys who act like this are physically abusive as well. And I would even go as far to say maybe hasn't thrown a punch, but has created a world that is so unsafe for your body that it shuts itself down and tries to get small because there's a bear living in that house.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, I. I've been through some pretty traumatic things in my life, but, like, on paper that would be way worse than this. I've never had a panic attack until recently, so I know, like, full on, like, panic attack.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I know, like, I'm educated enough to know that like your body starts.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

To do things when it's trying to get your attention.

[Caller]

Yeah, right.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So what's keeping you there?

[Caller]

Well, I mean, I do, I mean, I did make a vow to him and I take that seriously. But I mean, I have a couple of thousand dollars in debt now that I didn't have before because I have to put gas and groceries on credit cards sometimes do you know. And he makes, he makes about four times what I do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Sure. I, I don't want to weave this back and forth into a finance situation than out of a finance situation, you're in a extremely toxic environment. You're in an unsafe environment. And if we haven't crossed lines yet, we will at some point. And when, even when the way you started the call, he told me I haven't proven my, like just those words alone, let me know. This is very much a father daughter relationship, far, far more than it's a husband and wife creating a future together.

[Caller]

Right? I mean he, I mean if he, he does control everything, I mean, not just money, and if something's not up to done the way he wants it done, I mean, he will threaten to put me out.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why are you. Why?

[Caller]

I mean, trivial stuff like bed's not.

[George Campbell]

Besides the vow, which, I mean, this doesn't sound like a marriage if you just talk. Hearing you say this out loud just sounds like toxic roommate situation. What is he actually signing up for when he signed up for this marriage?

[Caller]

I have recently asked him that. And I mean, he was like, well, I married you because I love you. But love, I don't think love should feel like this.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It does not. This is control, this is power. And I, I, this is, this is, I'm speaking on behalf of John Deloney, not on behalf of the Ramsey network here. And so I, I take a much broader view of the word fidelity. I think you can cheat on somebody and never sleep with another person, but if you steal from somebody their dignity and their autonomy and their ability to have feelings and thoughts and a, and a partnership in a relationship, that's not fidelity. Right? You are cheating that person out of their life. You're cheating that person out of connection. Okay? And so I take a much broader view, I think, and some people are very narrow, like you got to have sex with somebody else, otherwise it's not cheating. I, I, I, I have a much broader view than that, but I'm listening to my sister Jane here, and you're slowly drowning and you know it. And your body's trying to get your attention. And so I guess what George and I are asking you two guys who love our wives and we're not perfect, man, but I, I, I'm, I'm trying to sit across the table from you and say, why are you, what are you doing? Why are you here? Why are you staying? What's the hook? You got a couple thousand dollars? Who cares? You're too tough and resilient and brave. You'll have that paid off in no time. Like something else is here. Like, what's the hook? Why are we staying?

[Caller]

I mean, I don't know that I could. Well, I mean, some of it's like, I want to say that, like I, I gave my all.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You, I, I don't think you're being allowed to give your all because the person you're connected to is saying, I, you can take your all and flush it down the toilet. Go make the bed the right way.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Are you scared to leave? What would be the repercussions if you said, hey, I'm out?

[Caller]

I mean, I mean, I just want a stable life for my child.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

This is not it. Your child is absorbing top to bottom what love looks like, what marriage looks like, what equality looks like, absorbing it into their DNA. Now, I will never, unless somebody is being physically, like, assaulted. I'm not going to tell somebody they have, they need to leave their marriage. I've often told people, you need to get to where you are safe. And we may need to take a structured 30 day break. I'm going to go move in with a friend for 30 days. We're going to be very clear on when I come, when I come back, what the conditions of coming back are going to be. But, and again, you're, you and I, that's, you got to make this choice. You're, you're an adult.

[Caller]

I don't see that going over well.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you see your current situation going over well?

[Caller]

Well, I mean, I probably wouldn't have reached out to you guys.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I know, I know, I know. And I hope you hear that. We love you. I'm worried about you.

[George Campbell]

Neither options are easy. Let's just make that very clear. Staying is really hard and leaving is going to be hard, but one leads you to where you're free and that your daughter's safe and you're safe and you can get to a better place financially instead of living in this prison. And we just want what's best for Jane.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, I'm scared to make a decision. And.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Do you have people who, that you Know and trust that can sit with you and hear the. The entirety of the story.

[Caller]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you opened up? Do they know?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What do they tell you?

[Caller]

To leave.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

If your friend was in the situation, what would you tell her?

[Caller]

I mean, I never imagined myself in this situation.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

No, that's. That's what makes these abusive situations so surreal because it's like there's no way that's happening. I. I've heard that over and over, that there's no way this is happening to me. And it may even be, in your case, happening again. Right.

[Caller]

Yeah. I've never experienced anything quite like this, but I'm just scared of. I'm. I'm really just. I don't know what. I mean. I know what I need to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But here's what I want you to do. I want you to reach out to a couple of friends, to reach out to a local counselor in your community. Not to go, quote, unquote, get well right now, but you need someone that's going to walk alongside you as you have a very challenging road ahead of you. Whether you stay and try to figure out how to make this thing work or you decide to create an alternative life outside of this relationship. But listen, you're worth being well.

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[Caller]

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[George Campbell]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, host of the Entree Leadership podcast, the Fine Print and co host of Smart Money Happy Hour, joined this hour by the host of the Dr. John DeLoney Show. You guessed it, America, it's Dr. John DeLoney himself. But how funny would it be if.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

There'S a different host if it was Dan? Hey, my name is dan, hosting the Dr. John DeLoney Show. It's kind of like us, me and you hosting the Ramsey Show.

[George Campbell]

That's true. At least Dave took his first name off of it to make it less awkward for all of us. It's great. Well, we are here for you, America, taking your calls about life, money, mental, mental health, relationships, career. It all kind of blends into one blurry thing we call life. And we're here to help you take the next step and help you make a breakthrough in that. So 888-255-2225 is the number to call. Renee joins us up next in Orlando, Florida. Renee, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you. So just a little bit of backstory. My husband and I were in our mid-30s and we both work in frontline positions at one of the major theme parks in the area. And we also have a six year old son. And for the last three months we've been living in a hotel because we could no longer afford our rent in our apartment. And financially we are just not in a place to buy a house. We've been able to secure an apartment, but the real issue is we ended up falling for, as you would say, George, the stupid tax of getting into payday loans and installment loans. And now we're like $25,000 in debt and we make like 75,000 a year. But between the weekly payments on those loans and our regular bills, we're suffocating under our debt and we don't know how to get out of it. We were just turned on to your show, the Ramsey Solutions, maybe like a couple days ago from a co worker of mine. And we've found hope in it so far, but we've been hearing stuff on the show like baby Steps and emergency funding. We don't know what any of that stuff is. And we just. We don't know how to start. We don't know where to go from here. We don't have anything in savings. We don't have anything for retirement. We don't have anything for our kids. And we would like to have more children someday and set up a stable future and a stable home life for them eventually.

[George Campbell]

So, so sorry to hear all about this. Gosh.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Are you ready?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Like, when George starts talking here, like, you have to say you're ready. And what that means is you're ready to quit your jobs if you have to. You're ready to move out of the area if you have to. You're ready to change everything. Are you in?

[Caller]

Yes, we're ready. Steve, my husband and I, we've already started looking into schooling to get different jobs. You know, stay in the jobs that we have right now so that we can fund the schooling that we're going to. Because the company we're at, they will find higher education for free. And my husband, he currently has a bachelor's in psychology and wants to go to school for a master's of social work to be a guidance counselor. And I'm looking into real estate school because I have any desire to go to college per se, and throw money into a system where there's no guarantee of me getting a job in that field. So.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay, so you're ready. So George is going to walk you through it. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So I love that you guys want to further your education and get out of this hole, but right now we're in survival mode. And so I'm not thinking about school. I'm thinking about how we gonna put food on the table and stop living in hotels and make sure our six year old's taken care of. And so a one is to stop going into debt. Are you guys done there? Are you still having to take out these payday loans to get by?

[Caller]

No, we're done. We did take out some credit cards a couple months ago, but we have since stopped using them.

[George Campbell]

Can you physically cut them up? Yes, cut them up and throw them away. So you don't know the numbers anymore. Okay, then we're going to pay those off completely and we're going to close all of those accounts and we're not going to look at credit card companies and payday loans as a blessing to get us through next week. They are snakes, okay?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

They prey on people in your situation. Okay, who are working their butts off to try to make it work and want the best for their little kid and just can't make the ends meet. They pray on you. They give me and George, they give us free flights and you pay for them. Okay? They are not your friend.

[George Campbell]

So once we're saying no to debt, let me ask the interest rate on these payday loans because I think it's going to make us all throw up.

[Caller]

Too much to.

[George Campbell]

Is it in the hundreds?

[Caller]

Probably. I mean, we're spending $1,200 a month on these payday loans.

[George Campbell]

What other debt do you have?

[Caller]

We both have car payments and I've looked into selling them off and we are basically upside down on both of our cars because again, it was a buy here, pay here kind of place. So astronomical interest rates.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What other?

[George Campbell]

You have two car loans. You get the payday loans. You have the credit cards. What else?

[Caller]

The credit cards were actually not in debt on. We make those payments. Zero balance.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

We just stop using them. But we also have like medical bills and collections. I have maybe $1,200 in medical bills and collections and my husband has 1,400 in collections.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So what we're going to do is a one is we're not going into more debt. That's baby step zero. We're going to stop the bleeding. Your next step is to scrape together $1,000 as quickly as possible. That's a, that's gonna go into a savings account. I know that sounds like. How are we gonna do that? We have no margin and this is where we go. Obviously you guys aren't living lavishly. All of your money is going to debt.

[Caller]

We haven't lived lavishly in a long time.

[George Campbell]

So right now your expenses, your expenses are your four walls is what I'm guessing food, utilities, housing, transportation.

[Caller]

Yeah, basically. And then anything my kid needs. Okay, our kid needs.

[George Campbell]

This might mean that we are working 60, 70 hour weeks and we're trading spots to take care of the six year old for a few weeks just so we can get out from being underwater.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Let's tell her what that like that means he, your husband gets off of work and he doesn't come home.

[Caller]

Yep, that's what we've been doing. My husband's been doing double shifts.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Good.

[Caller]

Six, six or seven days a week because he can. My. My role at this theme park, they don't allow overtime.

[George Campbell]

But have you talked to your employer, your leaders there and explain what's going on?

[Caller]

Yeah. And there's.

[George Campbell]

Could they put you up in some of their housing on the property? Temporarily.

[Caller]

They don't. They don't have it. I mean, they have it for the college kids.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But do you have somebody, do you have somebody who could watch your kid for you?

[Caller]

We will now because, like, our closest family is three hours away, but we recently acquired an apartment, thank God, in a complex that's an hour away from work. But we actually have friends that live in the complex that would be willing to.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So it might be for 30 days.

[Caller]

From time to time.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, it might be for 30 days. You ask them, tell them, hey, we're in a mess. And the moment you get off, you're going straight to drive Uber or deliver Uber eats or deliver Instacart. And all we're trying to do is get a $thousand dollars, get $1,000. You are gonna get a thousand dollars in your account and you're gonna take a deep breath for the first time in a long time. Okay?

[George Campbell]

And you're gonna do whatever it takes, even if it's, I'm staying with friends, I'm gonna get plugged into a local church and do whatever you can to get there. Baby Step 2 is listing all the debts, smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate, and attacking it with a vengeance. With all the margin you can muster up, with all the income you can create, with all the expenses you can shave down. And it might be hard at first, but when you knock out that first debt, you are going to be on cloud nine and you're going to feel like, oh my gosh, we can do this thing. And you're knock out the next debt and the next debt. What does that do? It frees up the payments on those now, giving you a bigger snowball to keep rolling. And that's called the debt snowball method.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And once you do that, over the next, you know, it may. What's the total amount of debt you guys have?

[Caller]

I would say between 25 and $30,000.

[George Campbell]

You guys can do this easy. You make 75k, you got 25 to pay off. We've heard much smaller incomes with much bigger numbers, and they were able to do it. So I want you. The key to all of this is just believing that you can do it. And we're going to help you and walk with you by giving you one year of financial peace University watch all nine lessons with your husband and to get fired up, to give you knowledge, to give you motivation. We're going to give you one year of every dollar premium to get on a written plan, a budget every single week. You're tracking every expense, making Every dollar stretch as far as it can go. And I want you to call us back when you're debt free and share your story because it's going to give so many other people out there hope who didn't think it was possible for them. Hang on the line. Jenna's going to pick up. We are rooting for you. We are in your corner. Please call us back if we can help in any other way. This is the Ramsey Show.

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[George Campbell]

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail], this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George campbell joined by Dr. John DeLoney. If you're a fan of this show, be sure to check out my friend Dr. John DeLoney's show. It's on YouTube and podcast and he does it right next door to the studio and it's a real good one. And if you want more from me, which is a rare small group of people, you can check out Smart Money Happy Hour podcast I have with Rachel Cruz. That's real fun. And then a brand new YouTube channel where I'm making hopefully fun, entertaining personal finance videos, breaking down all the traps and trends to help you guys.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you're blown by me numbers wise. Well, doing it, man.

[George Campbell]

I think it's because I went all in. I'm a YouTuber. Like a true YouTuber.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah, you're like a YouTube native.

[George Campbell]

And it's highly produced, a lot of pop culture and memes, you know, less sad calls that are people in really tough situations. So I have that going for me. And they're short.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's crushing. Dude.

[George Campbell]

You're long winded. I'm short winded.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

That's. You told me not to talk about your height on the air anymore, so I won't. But.

[George Campbell]

Leave it alone, John.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

But.

[George Campbell]

All right, let's go to the phones. Caleb is up next in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Caleb, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

[George Campbell]

What's going on?

[Caller]

Well, I'm having some financial struggles with my girlfriend. Really? Like I'm doing all right myself. We have separate bank accounts. You know, I've never really thought of combining them or anything, but she just hasn't been handling her finances very well, and it's kind of putting, like, a real strain on our relationship.

[George Campbell]

In what way? What's your involvement with her? Her money?

[Caller]

She hasn't been able to help out with any, like, the bills. We live together.

[George Campbell]

Ah, there it is. Okay, so a lot of combined bills. She can't pay the bills?

[Caller]

No, like, she. She can hardly even pay her own bills.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Why?

[George Campbell]

And she working full time?

[Caller]

Yes and no. Relocated.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay.

[Caller]

And that. That was the issue. Like, she took a job that didn't really pan out. And so for about a month or two there, she really didn't have the income coming. Coming in.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

And, you know, on top of that, she didn't really have any money saved up to fall back on, so she was putting stuff on credit cards.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

So you're.

[George Campbell]

Are you covering all the bills right now?

[Caller]

Yeah, like, so, like the household bill.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Caleb, is the problem financial or is the problem. You're growing increasingly. Disgusted is probably a strong word, but you're growing increasingly frustrated by the character of the person you're trying to play house with. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to. Like, are you starting to believe, like, I don't know if I want to be married to someone who rolls like this.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, that's definitely. I think you kind of hit the nail on the head right there.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Okay. Because here's the deal. One, George and I are both going to tell you if. If you're not married, and we can say there's a moral issue, fine. But there's. There's a legal issue if you're not married. Paying each other's bills, playing house, playing each other's bills, it just makes for a mess. Dude, if you own a house together, the whole thing is just so complex. And so we would tell you, man, if you're gonna play house, get married. And. Because at least there is some legal protection as you separate things out, if things go sideways, if you're just dating, it just turns into World war III and 4 and 5. But beyond that, man, both George and I are married. We both are all in on. On the woman that we are with. And if there's a season where we gotta do extra. That's what I mean. There's no problem there. That doesn't seem to be your issue. That seems to be like, you're just getting increasingly frustrated that this is who I'M dating. This is a like, come on. And she's just like, nah, you got it. Is that right?

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean that's definitely. You're going down the right, right hole there. I mean what, what kind of frustrates me is I feel like a pressure like she wants the, our relationship to move to like the next level.

[George Campbell]

What is the next level you guys are already living.

[Caller]

That would be like marriage or kids. And I'm not comfortable doing that with her because of her finances.

[George Campbell]

Have you told her that?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hey, hold on. It's not because of her finances. It's because of her character. They are expressing themselves in her finances. Don't get those two screwed up because she's going to make you a bunch of promises and say, okay, well, I'll pay my credit card off and I'll go get another job. That's not going to cure the underlying which is, eh, I'll do whatever I want. I don't have to participate in building, make, creating a home together. And also in her defense, Ike, y'all are kind of just making up the. I mean you're just. It's very wishy washy and it's hard to, it's hard to anchor into wishy washy. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

[George Campbell]

Have you had a conversation with her yet about all this?

[Caller]

Yeah, I, I have and it just ends in like argument and yelling and stuff. I, I'm just kind of at my wits end because as, even as we speak, like she's getting like opening up new credit cards, account card accounts and stuff like that.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Have you, have you said to her, have you said to her, being in debt scares me to death and when you borrow money, I can't breathe. And moving forward in my home, the home that I want to raise kids in and build a family with, we are going to be people who don't borrow money. And so if that's the way you want to get through your world, I love that you are opting out of relationship with me. Have you said that? No, I haven't have a backbone, man. You got to stand up and, and speak your virtues out into the world because you're going to wake up three years from now, you're gonna have two kids, you're gonna be considering a wedding and you are not even know what day it is. You're gonna be so frustrated. Is that fair?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

I would never. And listen to me, don't go tell them, hey, I called these guys on the radio, they told me to dump your butt. That's not what we're saying at all. I'm telling you, the only thing in the world you can control is your thoughts and your actions. So you go be a person of character and say exactly what you need and what you feel. And then she gets to opt into that and y'all create a life together or she gets to opt out of that and have a bunch of shiny plastic toys. That's it. I know I made that sound real simple. I know it's super way more complex than that.

[George Campbell]

But Caleb, this is, this is eating you alive, man. This is turning into resentment. This is turning into you feeling like you're enabling her poor decisions. And if I'm in your shoes, I just go, this relationship isn't working. Our values are too dissimilar for this to work. And I wish you the best. And you know what that means. Someone's got to move out. And it's going to get real awkward.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Real quick because your first thought's gonna be like, I've been paying the bills. And she's gonna say, bye, Felicia. And the whole, then the whole thing starts over. The whole thing. Then George and I high five and we're like, told you so. But, but we won't do that.

[George Campbell]

I know the next few steps are going to be real hard, but what's even harder is just sticking this out, hoping things change and it just gets worse. And then you've got a lot of resentment. And John Deloney, he, he quotes another super smart psychologist guy who said, choose guilt over resentment.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And you're gonna feel guilty, you're gonna go, ah, she's already going through a tough time. I can't believe I do this to her. But man, it's gonna choose that over.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Hating the woman that you, you love, right? Or hating your mother in law or hating your dad. Like choose guilt. Choose the boundaries, right? And it goes back to. I don't think I'm a lot of talked about it yet, but I think I've talked about a little bit.

[George Campbell]

It's a secret.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Well, it's just like I got a new book coming out and in the fall and. But one of the discussions comes from the great Michael Easter, which like you gotta. It's hard, it's. Life is hard. If you are overweight by a hundred pounds, it's hard. And it's so hard to lose £100 so you're not toggling between, oh, one's real easy and one's real hard. My life is super simple if I'm 100 pounds overweight. And my knees hurt, my back hurts, and I'm exhausted and it's, it's. That's not. You're not choosing between a real fun time and a hard time losing weight. They're both hard right now. What he's choosing is nobody taught that dude how to say his needs out loud. And nobody taught him how to build a sit down with somebody and build a picture of what marriage could look like for us. And building a life and a home together. No one's done that. Doing that will be almost impossible. And living with somebody that you don't share their values and they are just digging a hole that expect you to clean up, that's hard too. So it's not an easy. One's easy and one's hard. They're both hard. You gotta just choose your hard right.

[George Campbell]

One, one's gonna leave lead to freedom.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What's the path? That's right.

[George Campbell]

That's a good word.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One path heads to freedom.

[George Campbell]

Wishing you the best.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

Choose your heart, man.

[George Campbell]

That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. My thanks to all the folks in the booth keeping the show running. My co host, Dr. John DeLoney and you, America, will be back with you before you know it.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What up? What up? It's Dr. John DeLoney from the Dr. John DeLoney show with some amazing news. The latest episode of United States of Anxiety is available right now exclusively on the Ramsey network app. This docu series follows real people from my show as they embark on a 90 day journey to transform their lives. And I personally walk alongside them every step of the way. Okay, now here's a sneak peek of what the new episode is all about. And don't forget to click the link in the show notes to download the app. What's up, Kelsey?

[Caller]

So I've lived with crippling anxiety for as long as I can remember. How do I stop it from constantly coming up in different areas of my life?

[Dr. John DeLoney]

What does crippling anxiety mean? Paint me a picture of that. All right, so you ready to jump in?

[Caller]

I'm ready to jump in.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

We're gonna check in with Kelsey. 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.

[Caller]

I cannot even function because I'm just crying. My mom left us when I was 4. I truly felt like for a while I had no family.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

She's experiencing things that really hurt a long time ago. Tell me about this boy.

[Caller]

He triggers me a lot. Scared of losing Paul. Scared of doing the wrong thing. Scared of not being enough.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

It just feels like it would be exhausting to be Kelsey. It is Whenever somebody's playing whack a mole with their ancestors, when it just keeps moving, that tells me the underlying system's not okay.

[Caller]

How do I get my inner child out of this relationship? Because I feel like she's running the show.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

One of two people that's supposed to never leave took off. I was this.

[Caller]

I was this burden.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You burden. That's right. To the one person who should carry it. All of it. Did you ever tell that little girl that it wasn't her fault?

[Caller]

I don't know what to do.

[Dr. John DeLoney]

You either have to choose to let this guy love you, or you gotta choose to let this guy go.