How Can I Rebuild Trust After a Gambling Addiction?

Summary

The Ramsey Show – Episode Summary

Episode Title: How Can I Rebuild Trust After a Gambling Addiction?
Date: March 3, 2026
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: Jade Washall

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show opens with a heartfelt and complex question: how do you rebuild trust with your spouse after a gambling addiction has destroyed the foundation of your marriage and finances? Dave Ramsey and Jade Washall guide a caller through the aftermath of gambling addiction, with a focus on practical steps for personal restitution, rebuilding trust, and navigating a marriage strained by secrecy and trauma. The show then pivots to cover a variety of other financial struggles, including dealing with surprise tax bills, managing debt, car purchases, and family drama around money.

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1. Rebuilding Trust After Gambling Addiction

Key Segment: [00:45–09:01]

Caller: Chris from Chicago

Background

• Chris shares that about 12 years ago, he developed a gambling addiction as a coping mechanism.
• The addiction led to secrecy and debt.
• His wife discovered the addiction eight years ago. He has now been clean for seven years.
• Chris paid off all gambling debt, put savings into an account controlled by his wife, attended therapy, and joined Gamblers Anonymous.

Current Situation

• Financial trust has been somewhat restored (separate accounts, his wife controls savings).
• Personal trust remains fractured. His wife still refuses to engage with him about finances, investments, or charitable giving.
• She responds to his efforts at inclusion with emotional distance: “Do what you want with your money.” [03:12]
• Attempts at marriage counseling have failed—his wife refuses to participate.
• Chris wonders how, if at all, he can move toward reconciliation or shared decision-making without imposing on her.

Ramsey Team’s Advice & Insights

• Dave Ramsey: “It’s hard to proceed with a life when you don’t have a marriage anymore. You have a roommate.” [04:35]
  • Dave empathizes with Chris’s struggle, relating a personal story where he lost his wife’s trust after bad business deals—but not through addiction or deceit.
  • “The only way I could regain Sharon’s trust was through steadiness, consistency, and working at it.” [06:10]
• After seven years of sobriety, Dave suggests there should be some progress—unless new betrayals have occurred.
• The harm from the original betrayal “becomes more about her being pissed than it does the thing that happened.” [05:47]
• Chris cannot force his wife to heal, nor can he expect reconciliation on his timeline.
• Dave emphasizes the emotional cost of unforgiveness: “She’s got a bucket of acid in her guts and it’s just boiling all the time.” [07:53]
• At some point, “we’ve got to grow back together on this. Otherwise, we’ve got real issues here. ... That’s the healing on her part that hasn’t taken place.” [07:36]
• Dave refers Chris back to his therapist: “I would turn that over to your therapist, sir. I’m so sorry you’ve been through this.” [08:52]

Memorable Quotes

• “All the confession took the load off of me, but it just put it squarely on her shoulders.” – Chris [01:21]
• “Steadiness, consistency, and working at it—that’s how you regain trust.” – Dave Ramsey [06:10]
• “She’s got a bucket of acid in her guts and it’s just boiling all the time. That’s what a lack of forgiveness does.” – Dave Ramsey [07:53]
• “You cannot make someone change.” – Dave Ramsey [03:47]

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2. Dealing with Surprise Tax Bills and Parental Support

Key Segment: [10:36–19:24]

Caller: Brandon from Mississippi

• Wants to borrow money to help his parents pay overdue taxes.
• Parents make $210k/year yet owe $27k in taxes due to underpaying on 1099 income and poor planning.

Advice

• Dave: “You make $210,000 and you’re completely out of control.” [15:32]
• Do not borrow money to bail out people with much higher incomes and ongoing bad behavior.
• Tax money is “already spent,” must not be repurposed.
• Get on a payment plan with the IRS and focus on fixing the underlying behavioral issue.

Memorable Quote

• “You ought to be able to pay $30,000 off very, very quickly... Don’t borrow money to pay the IRS. Not in this situation.” – Dave Ramsey [16:39]

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3. Escaping Bad Car Debt and Mental Health Barriers

Key Segment: [22:04–30:05]

Caller: Martina from Phoenix

• Deeply underwater on a car loan (owes $16k on a 2018 Corolla worth $7.5k), with $50k in student debt, $25k in personal loans/credit cards, and mounting medical debt.
• Struggles with mental health but is now on the right medications and seeking stability.

Advice

• Prioritize essentials: food, rent, car, utilities—ignore other debts temporarily.
• Overworking is necessary: “What you need to fix your whole life right now is $16,000.” [27:10]
• Pay off the car ASAP, then attack other debts.
• On depression and autism: “Depression is made worse when you feel trapped and when you’re not in action mode. ... Extreme focus can work in your favor.” [29:04]

Memorable Quotes

• “Get in action mode and get in warrior mode.” – Dave Ramsey [29:04]
• “I want you to be free. ... I don't give a crap about your credit. I want you to be free.” – Dave Ramsey [29:14]

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4. Weekly vs. Monthly Debt Snowball – Gaining Momentum

Key Segment: [33:27–38:17]

Caller: Rochelle

• Unsure whether to make debt payments weekly (when paid) or monthly (lump sum).

Advice

• Weekly payments are fine if you know all bills are covered.
• The key is consistent momentum and a written plan—math works either way.
• “As you get further into this... you’ll find even more margin.” – Dave Ramsey [37:33]

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5. Marriage & Money: Secrets, Control, and Divorce

Key Segment: [44:42–53:14]

Caller: Nicole from Detroit

• Husband refuses to share financial details or give access to accounts.
• She moves out; he files for divorce.
• He refuses counseling: “I’m a grown man. I do not have to show you anything financially.”

Advice

• Jade: “Maybe that’s a blessing. ... It sounds like someone who’s got extremely high pride.” [48:30]
• “All of his finances are now going to get exposed in the divorce. That’s the irony.” – Dave Ramsey [48:30]
• There’s nothing Nicole can say to change his behaviour—“this is a very entrenched position... you’re not going to make it, kiddo.” [52:00]

Memorable Quotes

• “You wouldn’t want your daughter to marry this guy. Not a person out there.” – Dave Ramsey [52:01]

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Additional Highlights & Notable Calls

Building Wealth Young & Buying a Car Post-College

[65:51–74:38]

• Caller, 22, with $40k in savings wants to buy a $13k 1999 Mercedes.
• Dave and Jade: Don't buy a high-maintenance "eye candy" car. Move out from parents immediately after graduation to accelerate personal growth.

Fast-Tracking a Mortgage Payoff & Changing the Family Tree

[105:33–113:57]

• Chevy and Caitlin paid off $95,000 (mortgage) in 34 months; net worth now approaching $1 million before age 35.
• “Communication and lifting each other up” is their secret.
• Having no debt provided margin to handle personal tragedy and build wealth.

How Not to Help Family with Money

[101:50–104:39]

• James receives $6,000 as a gift from a now-deceased family member; his sister wants him to pay it back. Dave: Decide: either pay her or don’t. Stop the drama.

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Sample Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:48 – Chris describes gambling addiction and aftermath
• 04:35 – Dave summarizes the marriage stalemate: “You have a roommate”
• 07:53 – Dave on the pain of unforgiveness
• 12:04 – Dave: “You make $210,000 and you’re completely out of control”
• 29:04 – Dave: “Depression is made worse when you feel trapped and when you’re not in action mode”
• 44:50 – Nicole: “My husband has put his foot down... no, you cannot see anything that I have going on financially”
• 48:30 – Dave: “All of his finances are now going to get exposed in the divorce”
• 52:00 – Dave: “There’s not a single phrase that’s gonna make him not be a jerk”
• 65:51 – Young caller with savings seeks advice on car, moving out

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Tone and Style

• Direct, tough love, and practical.
• Dave and Jade are supportive but unafraid to call out self-delusion, excuses, or unhealthy family dynamics.
• Empathetic, especially to those facing deep shame or marital betrayal. Encouragement is always paired with action-oriented advice.

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Takeaway Messages

• Financial restoration after betrayal requires years of trust-building, full transparency, and repeated invitations for joint decision-making.
• Forgiveness is not letting someone off the hook; it is freeing yourself from perpetual bitterness.
• Do not enable loved ones by covering for their financial mismanagement—help requires tough conversations and behavioral change.
• Major life change (marriage, moving out, debt payoff) is possible regardless of past mistakes, but only with honesty, discipline, and sacrifice.
• Communication, consistent budgeting, and learning to say “no” are foundational to lasting financial freedom and healthy relationships.

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Listen to this episode for more calls about accidental debt, aggressive savings, and the ever-present reminders that “normal is broke, and common sense is weird!”

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washall, number one best selling author and Ramsey personality is my co host today. Open phones here at 888, 825-5225. The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Chris is going to start us off in Chicago. Hey Chris, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing well.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. What's up?

[Caller]

So about 12 years ago, I used gambling as a coping mechanism and what was a social thing became an addiction. After about 10 years I realized that or after 2 years I realized the trouble I was in and I tried to fix it on my own. They didn't go particularly well. My wife discovered my gambling about eight years ago. So two years after that and

[Dave Ramsey]

I

[Caller]

did do the work. It was a traumatic and absolutely brutal situation for her to be in because all the, as you know, my confession took the load off of me, but it just put it squarely on her shoulders. Now I did the work. I was already in the process of wanting to undo what I had done. I just wasn't at the place where I trusted the Lord to help me save my family. And so I didn't confess it to her when it finally came out. I did the work. I spent a year and a half, I paid off all the debt. I put a significant sum in a savings account that she only had control over therapy every week ga and it got to a point where even my therapist said, you know, I think you're in a good place with the gambling. I don't think you need my therapy for that, but I'm willing to help you with my marriage. And so what has happened is I've regained the trust in the financial aspect of things and now I have kind of control of my money. We have two separate accounts, but what has happened is the damage that was done to the relationship has just put up such a significant wall that the things I now want to do with giving and just being a steward with grace that God has given me in my finances

[Dave Ramsey]

are

[Caller]

everything on that aspect is completely separate. If I try to bring her into some of that of what I am doing or how I'm investing or saving or giving, her response will be, do what you want with your money. And so for the sake of Peace in our household, that. That is not something I'm going to demand of her. So it's been about seven years.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've been dry seven years clean. You've been sober seven years. Wow.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Are y' all seeing a marriage counselor?

[Caller]

She. We tried it. We've tried it a couple times, and she absolutely doesn't want to have anything to do with it. So I understand that until the Lord softens her heart towards me, that that's not something I can. I can't change her. So what I'm trying to figure out is without imposing on her and the resistance to any type of reconciliation in our marriage right now, how can I. I'm not sure how to proceed with some of the things that, you know, the only debt we have is our house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's hard to proceed with a life when you don't have a marriage anymore. You have a roommate.

[Caller]

Oh, absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's hard to visualize a future, a unified future, when there's not a unified current. And so, you know, and so, I mean, the language that you're using around this is all correct. If what you're really acting out follows the conversation that we've been having with you for the last four minutes, it's all very clear.

[Jade Washall]

Are there kids?

[Dave Ramsey]

Two.

[Jade Washall]

How old are they?

[Caller]

Two young boys. I'll say preteen to not nail me down quite as.

[Jade Washall]

And you can answer as honestly as you can, is she only staying with you because of them?

[Caller]

No. The reason I think she's staying with me is then right now, I am the bad guy. But if she chose to divorce me, there would be such a. Some accountability from her family and things like that that she would have to deal with.

[Jade Washall]

So my point is, she's not staying with you out of love for you. She's staying with you for some ulterior reason. Okay. That's the point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Obviously, you're correct. You can't make someone change. And obviously you're correct. She has a reason to be pissed. But at some point, it becomes more about her being pissed than it does the actual thing that happened. So, like, we went bankrupt. I was 28 years old. We had little babies, and we lost everything because 100% of the real estate decisions were being made by me. I wasn't hiding anything. It wasn't an addiction. But my wife lost confidence in my judgment. With good reason. Hello. I was stupid. Okay, so she lost, you know, and so how do you regain that trust? Well, steadiness, consistency, and working at. Okay. You know, anytime I Walk near anything that makes her feel like the phrase she used. It feels like you're scheming and scamming again. And I wasn't scheming or scamming, but it makes her feel like my risk meter is gone again. And she has a large risk meter. So we have to really work together to make decisions in order for her. In order for our decisions to stay in her comfort zone. Especially in the early days. Today, completely different. It's 30 years ago, but seven years. There should be some progress on coming back to the table unless you've given a reason for there not to be. And what you're saying is it hasn't been absolutely steadily and consistently moved away from all the problems. And so to invite her into all decisions and she refuses. And I want you to look at this with me so you have a comfort so you don't ever think I'm going back to where I was before. I understand the deception. I understand the actual loss of the money. But at some point we've got to grow back together on this. Otherwise we've got real issues here. And so I don't know, that's something for a therapist to guide you in how much pressure you put on her to do that. But the bottom line is Grace, this is not good for her.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's got a bucket of acid in her guts and it's just boiling all the time. And that's what lack of forgiveness does. Now. She should not trust you except to the extent you are trustworthy, worthy. Yeah. But if you're sharing everything and she's got insight into all of it and we make. Sharon and I make the decisions together. Ever since that event, Dave doesn't make any decisions to come home and say, look what I did. We make the decisions together. And if you're doing all of that and she's unwilling to join that, then that's the healing on her part that hasn't taken place. And I don't know how to force someone to do that or force a discussion about it. I would turn that over to your therapist, sir. I'm so sorry. You guys have been through this. This gambling thing, folks is out of control out there. DraftKings is not.

[Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Caller]

Well, good.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's up?

[Caller]

I had a question about helping us parents out.

So

A W or 1099 came in late due to the job that she was working and she has the money but not able to pay all of it right now. And if they were going to get a loan it would be for the 25 taxes instead of the 24 taxes which she was trying to take care of right now. And the question was I know my parents, they won't try to pay me back. They will try to pay me back but I won't, you know, requested to pay me back. But I was thinking about getting a loan to try to assist him for the 24 taxes.

[Jade Washall]

How much is due for the 24 taxes?

[Caller]

27.

[Dave Ramsey]

27 what?

[Caller]

Thousand.

[Jade Washall]

27,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Lord night.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much for 25?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm not sure about the 25 but she was trying to make sure and take care of the 27 now because that is the most important thing which is for 24.

[Jade Washall]

What's. What else about their financial history? How much are they earning every. Every month or every year? Do you know?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So I would say mother probably brings around 130.

[Jade Washall]

Uh huh.

[Caller]

Father probably right at 90.

[Jade Washall]

So there's no reason they shouldn't be paying their taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why is she not. She's not not setting aside money for 1099 income.

[Caller]

So yes, she was paying them quarterly but not enough. What happened?

Yes, not enough.

So what happened? A late, a late 1099 came in and so they had.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that's not what happened.

[Jade Washall]

That would have to be some big.

[Dave Ramsey]

The 1099 came in and she knew the money had already come in. So the, the fact that she had this income is not a surprise. That's bull crap. You follow me? You don't get a 1099 for $100,000. You didn't know was coming because you have the $100,000. So this is what's scaring me is that this is going to go on and on and on and on and on. We don't know if they've gone to the root of this and fixed it or not. Because 1099 just don't fly in the window without the money having already come a year before.

[Jade Washall]

Is this a brand new business or has she been doing this for a while?

[Caller]

Ever since she retired.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which was when?

[Caller]

About three, four.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so she's never paid her taxes, right, what we're saying?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I think this is compiling.

[Caller]

Yes, she had. So 23, it's 5, 23. From there it's all fine. It was just that the 24, that's where it started to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, but 25, you don't know what it is.

[Jade Washall]

Tell me about your financial situation.

[Caller]

I'm in debt myself.

[Jade Washall]

That's all I needed to know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so. And you said you were going to borrow the money. So the answer to your question is no, you don't borrow the money. But let's help them anyway. Let's figure out how we can help them and you can go back to them with some advice. But you borrowing money for these people that make $210,000 and are out of control is a really bad idea. So. No, I would not do that. Not in a years now. Should they borrow the money? You mentioned that she had the money, but she can't get to it. What's that mean?

[Caller]

So other scenarios and situations came up. That that money that was set aside for those taxes had to be used for something else.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's pretty vague. What?

[Caller]

Well, I would say things that came up due to housing, things that they needed to fix around the house. That's pretty much all the information I kind of got. So.

[Dave Ramsey]

But she doesn't have the money like in some account she just doesn't want to touch. She spent the money to fix her kitchen or whatever. Right?

[Caller]

Right.

No, it's not that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so there's no, there's no money. They have no money? Is that what you're telling me?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Washall]

Do they have anything they could sell? Do they have vehicles with payments or no payments? Is there anything they could sell to. To get this money?

[Caller]

I would say both vehicles have a Payment, Nothing in my mind. I just come off the top of here, they could say they could sell, okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

If I were to sit down with them and I was their coach, Brandon, here's what I would tell them, okay? I would say you make $210,000 and you're completely out of control. We've got to get your taxes set up. And you those tax accounts are. Once you set those money aside out of your 1099 income for your quarterly estimates, which you mentioned, it sounds like somebody knows what to do then. That money is sacred. You do not touch it. And I don't care what comes up. It's already spent. You don't have it anymore. You just have it in your name. You have to forget you own that money. And so nothing can come up. Your little brother needs a car, toughies, nothing can come up. Some friend calls and wants a medical bill paid, Nothing. You don't own this money anymore. It's already tax money. You have to quit even leaving it available emotionally. This is me talking to your parents, okay? So that this never, ever, ever, ever comes back again. And then we need to work you out of debt with a budget, put you on every dollar, and you guys are going to start living on way less than you make because you got a couple of stupid car payments and you owe the KGB, I mean, the IRS, 27,000 freaking dollars. And so we're going to put you on a payment plan with the irs and they are the first debt you're going to pay off and you're them off in less than 12 months. You make $210,000. You ought to be able to pay 30,000 off very, very quickly and just pay the IRS. That's what I would do. Would I go borrow money to pay the irs? No, I would not. Not in this situation. Because I want to make sure that at the core of this, at the root that caused this problem, that it goes away. And you borrowing money to go get them out of this when they make this kind of money and are this disorganized and chaotic is really suicidal for you, sir? Please do. Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

How long have you been listening to our show?

[Caller]

Oh, wow. Actually learned from them that told me about you guys.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, so that means you both have. Have some sense beyond this, right? And I want you to get serious about this. If you've been listening to the show, you know, the things that we're teaching around here. So I want to make sure that today, if we give you every dollar, will you go on there and will you start getting into the classes and every dollar and let it teach you what to do next.

[Caller]

Yeah, I already have every dollar.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, we're gonna give it to you for your mom and dad. Let's see if we can get them moving along. But. No, you don't. You knew before you called in here. I wasn't gonna tell you. We weren't gonna tell you to borrow money.

[Jade Washall]

This is like.

[Dave Ramsey]

And we certainly weren't gonna borrow money for this.

[Jade Washall]

This is like that scripture where the man looks in the mirror and he walks away and immediately forgets what he looks like. If you listen to this stuff every day, it's up to you to put it into practice. It's not. It doesn't happen by osmosis. It doesn't happen automatically. You have to then go away and do the things that we teach. Otherwise, your life is not going to change.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Including when I went broke. Larry Burkett used to say that personal financial problems are not the problem. They're the symptom of something else going on. So in this case, you don't have a tax problem. You have an accounting problem, because you didn't set the money aside to pay your taxes. And then when you did, you went and did something stupid with it instead of paying your taxes. And so now you got yourself between you and the government, which is a really horrible place to be for anybody. None of us want to be there.

[Jade Washall]

Certainly not.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are not people with a sense of humor. These are not people that are powerless. They have lots of power to screw you over, and they will. So you need to get on a payment plan with them and get them paid off and never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever touch your tax money for anything ever again. Yeah, it's gone. It's already gone. You just moved it in on the account and given it to him yet. But it's already gone. It's just like withholding. It's gone.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. I used to go in there, and every month I'd put. Move the taxes over. I did not play games with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you gotta do it every time you write a check.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah,

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[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah.

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. Martina's in Phoenix. Hi, Martina, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi. I two and a half years ago I bought a car and it's a good car. It's a 2018 Corolla, but I have a 16.5% interest on it and over half of my payments go only to interest. I'm actually the co signer on the car and my mother is the main signer on the car and I have had job instability, housing instability over the years and I'm just not putting my life together. But currently I haven't even been able to make my February car payment. So I also rely on this car as a source of income. So I. What are you, what is your advice on the car?

[Jade Washall]

I would look for a different. I would start looking for a different source of income that's not tied to this car. My guess is you're doing some of one of the delivery apps.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm actually a Lyft driver. I had a dead end job. I quit that, but I got a new job. That is a really good job, but it just, it doesn't start for a couple more weeks.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it? How much are you gonna be making at the new good job?

[Caller]

About three to 4,000 a year. It's.

You mean a month or a month?

I mean. Sorry, month. I. I am a swim instructor and I'm contracting with a pool that pays very well for their lesson.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, and then what's. What do you owe? What's the total amount owed on this car?

[Caller]

I owe 16, 200 and I originally paid 18, 500.

[Jade Washall]

Have you looked to see what it's worth? If you looked on Kelly Blue Book. Have you looked to see what it's worth? Private sale.

[Caller]

Yes, it's worth 7, 500.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, boy. What happened to it?

[Dave Ramsey]

She's been driving Uber.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, yeah, that's true.

[Caller]

Years on and off.

[Dave Ramsey]

Destroyed the car.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, well, then your only choice here, you're. I mean, you're gonna have to pay it off because it's such a low value and you're gonna have to work quickly to do it. Is it your only debt?

[Caller]

Definitely not. I've got about $50,000 in student debt and I ended up dropping out of school due to mental health issues. And I have about $25,000. 20,000 to 25,000 in personal loans and credit cards. And then I have an. I don't even know how many thousands of dollars in medical that it's. I don't even, like, know.

[Jade Washall]

So you're gonna be doing. You'll be doing swim lessons at this place. How long is it going to take you to build up your lesson pool to make 4,000amonth, or is there a base pay?

[Caller]

Because I make. I'm going to be making about 30 to $40 an hour.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are they going to work you 40 hours?

[Caller]

That's the plan. But yeah, that's the problem is that it does depend on how many clients they get. They do get a lot of clients.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. I'd be looking really deeply into that. First off. And my homework for you leaving this call is I would have something else lined up that gives me the ability to work. Because you don't know how many clients they're going to send your way and you don't know how quickly your calendar is going to fill up. And you've got to get started on this debt asap. Because here's the thing. If you default on another payment, it's really going to mess with your mom. I'm sure it already has, right?

[Caller]

Yeah. I feel bad for my mom, and I. My mom does try to help when she can, but she's already. She's a single mom raising my teen teenage brother with special needs, so she's

already strapped a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

What we've Got to start with. Let's go back to basics. All right?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Before you do anything else with money, you take care of food, shelter, basic clothing, transportation, and utilities. Okay? Do you pay. Do you pay rent?

[Caller]

I do. And I live in the smallest, cheapest apartment I could find here in Phoenix. And I.

[Dave Ramsey]

Perfect. So you pay the rent. So you pay the rent and you go to the grocery store. Stop. You pay rent, you go to the grocery store, you get the car current. Before you do anything, all the other debts can wait till you pay rent, get the car current, get food on the table. Okay? Before you do anything, you gotta build a basic foundation in your life, and that's food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. Okay? Now, once you're current on the car, then you can decide. Let's reach out to the student loan people, let them know you need a hardship deferral, and send them some of the paperwork on some of the mental illness issues you've had. And just to let the bureaucrats have something to chew on for a little while while they wa around, you do nothing, you quit paying them for right now. And then you get this book of business at the swim lessons full as fast as you can. And Jade's right. In the meantime and even after, I want you to work all the time, because what you need to fix your whole life right now is $16,000.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you had $16,000 and this car payment was gone, we could really get after some of those other debts, couldn't we?

[Caller]

Yeah, it feels like that. That car loan is a big wall between me and basically the rest of my life.

[Dave Ramsey]

Agreed? Agreed. So we need to go find an extra $2,000 a month for eight months and smack this thing in the head. Okay, but that means, like, all you do is work, girl. You just work all. And it's not Uber. Freaking Uber's making the car worse, okay? You're putting so many miles on, you've destroyed the value of the car. So. Yeah, but if they. If you could. If you can work 80 hours a week with swim lessons, just put your fins on and go, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, if you can't get. If you can't get a bunch of hours down there, then let's find something else that you can do. That's the thing where you make the most possible money. That's moral and legal, okay? And I want you to go cray cray for a while, because the way you bust this is you throw dynamite in the middle of it, and the dynamite is dollar bills.

[Caller]

Okay? I like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you just say food, shelter, lights and water and pay off the stinking car. And that's all I am breathing to do right now. I breathe in and out every morning. I'm tired because I work all the time, but by God, I'm making progress for the first time in five years. Yes, you can do this. You can do it. What was the nature of your mental illness stuff?

[Caller]

I have a level 1 high functioning autism and that has made it hard for me to hold a regular full time job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And then I also have because of that stem. So like some anxiety and depression.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I have over the last few months gotten on the right meds, got into the stable housing and finally I'm starting to get my finances stable. I'm trying to do baby step one right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's the thing, here's what I've worked with in 35 years of doing this. I've worked with a whole bunch of people that both had high level functioning autism and I've worked with a whole bunch of people that had depression. And the thing I know is the depression is made worse when you feel trapped and when you're not in action mode. When you get in action mode and get in warrior mode and get in attack mode, it helps because it releases the dopamine and other things and it helps to melt away the depression and the autism. The high functioning autism can actually work in your favor in those situations because you have the ability to do extreme amounts of focus, don't you?

[Caller]

Yeah, I am really good at teaching people to swim. And actually the gym I'm working at is called ability360 and it's actually an adaptive gym and most of their employees

have some kind of disability.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And anything you can do to help people work out. If you could do a personal trainer thing going, I was gonna say you need to go to the situation. What we're gonna do is use all of this situation to your advantage. The thing that has been a blocker for you because as you start melting away these debts, first and foremost you get this car off your back, off your mother's back, your brain is gonna clear up the fog that you've been walking in. The stress related anxiety of feeling trapped in 16% and feeling honestly shame about signing up for 16% too. That was dumb. So you're not dumb, but that was dumb. So you know what you do is you get an attack mode warrior girl. You put on your warrior stuff and you get after it, complete focus. I don't want you to pay anybody else, just Let them all go bad. I don't really give a crap about your credit. You already don't have credit. We know that because you had a 16.8% car payment. So we know your credit's trash already. So I'm not worried about that at all. I'm worried about you. I want you to be free. So you hang on, and we'll get you signed up for every dollar, and that'll help you walk through this stuff as well. Murphy's law means if something can go wrong, it will. And it usually happens when you're not prepared. That's why a big part of what I teach is staying prepared for whatever curve balls life throws. Have a fully funded emergency fund, buy term life insurance, and get a will from Mama Bear legal forms. Because the last thing your family needs is trying to figure out what you wanted after you're already gone. I've seen families torn apart because no one wrote things down. A will spells out exactly what you want to happen after you've passed away. No questions, no court dates, no family fights, Just clear directions and peace. It's one of the most loving things you can do. And on mamabearlegalforms.com completing your will is f easy and affordable. Peace of mind for your family takes about 20 minutes with Mama Bear. And unlike a lot of other online wheel companies, the price you see at the beginning is the price you pay. At mama bear legalforms.com go to mamabearlegalforms.com and use the promo code Ramsey to save 20%. Mama bearlegalforms.com promo code Ramsey. Rochelle is with us in Reno, Nevada. Hey, Rochelle. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm well, thank you. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey. So, okay. My husband and I are in baby step two, and I feel like we've kind of tripped ourselves up because we don't know he gets paid weekly. And we're trying to decide if we should do snowball, like, weekly or wait till the end of the month to pay off, like, a lump sum.

[Jade Washall]

So when you go through and you do the paycheck planner on every dollar, do you know for sure at the end of the week that you can pay the money off and it won't come back to bite you in the butt later?

[Caller]

I. We have done it. We have about $400. So I. We have about $400, like, extra at the end of the week to have in order to have all of our bills paid at the end of the month.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I mean, I don't have a problem with that. That's the way Sam and I used to do it, but we got paid weekly, and so it just made it easier. And I made a schedule of making sure everything was covered, everything was good to go, and then. Yeah, that. That freed up. Freed us up to be able to do it that way. So I. I don't have a problem with that. I think that's great.

[Caller]

Okay. Because it just feels like we're not getting anywhere right now because. And I think we're. We're motivated by that. Like, oh, look, we paid this or we paid this.

[Jade Washall]

Yes.

[Caller]

And it feels like we're not getting anywhere. And my. I have one more.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are getting anywhere. It's just a whole bunch of it at the end of the month, right?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're just two weeks. You just buy groceries.

[Caller]

Groceries.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. And rent and whatever. Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

You're just trying to build in some momentum so that you feel like something's happening every week to keep you going. Am I right?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

If there's any of the stuff you're paying in that first segment, look at your paycheck. Are you using paycheck planner on every dollar?

[Caller]

We are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. If you look at that paycheck planner and say, I could roll this item from the first segment to the second segment and use some of that first segment money to get out of debt, and that would keep me that momentum. And so if there's a bill that you're paying in the first set that can wait till the second set without being late or getting late fees or dinging your credit or something like that, anything you could push off into that other segment, use that money in the first segment for debt, right?

[Jade Washall]

Mm, yeah. Cause right now she's doing. You're doing 400 extra a week, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, just in the first.

[Caller]

That's what we have.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wait a minute. I'm sorry. Are you doing this weekly or bi weekly?

[Caller]

We were trying to do it weekly.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you get paid weekly?

[Caller]

I think he gets paid. We get paid weekly. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. So each week, figure out anything that doesn't have to be in that week that could be in the next week to allow you to pay more debt in that week. That will give you that emotional bing that each time we're paying some necessities and we're paying some debt, we're paying some necessities, we're paying some debt. That'll give you that sense of momentum. But the math is basically the same. If you said, okay, the first two weeks, we're Paying only necessities, no debt. And the last two weeks we're paying all debt. It's the same math, basically, but the problem is just the emotion of it, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you are working at smallest to largest, right?

[Jade Washall]

We are.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what is your smallest debt currently?

[Caller]

Smallest? Currently is 7:35.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good. What's your household income?

[Caller]

We bring home 7,600amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much are you putting on debt a month?

[Caller]

The goal is to put 1400amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that one's gone in one month. Right. And another one.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Washall]

Now, you told me. I just want to check that because you told me you had $400 margin at the end of every month. I'm sorry? At the end every week. So where's the other 200?

[Caller]

I want to say it's about 430.

[Jade Washall]

Okay. Yeah. So that should be even more going towards the debt.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

So just double check that. I like the idea of doing it weekly.

[Dave Ramsey]

The other thing is. You just started, didn't you?

[Caller]

We did just start, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay. Nothing wrong with that. But the way you're describing all of this is what gave me a hint to that fact. Back packed. What will happen, and Jade can testify to this too, is the longer you do this, the more intense you're going to get, because you're going to start to see this stuff melt away and you're going to crunch some other stuff out of there. You're probably going to end up with more margin than just 14 or 1500.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now you're. As you get further into this and you get used to the rhythm of it and you start to see it work, you're going to say, I'm cutting that and I'm cutting that. And I'm cutting that.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you're going to work extra and I'm cutting that.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. And if you don't have side hustles, you need to lock those in today because all of that, all of that is going to go towards this, and all of that is going to give you that momentum that you want to feel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Bobby's in Nashville. Hi, Bobby. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

Absolutely. So I am, you know, started to make some decent money. My wife and I are about $80,000 in debt and feels like we're not. Not quite month to month, but we're pretty drained.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's decent money?

[Caller]

I make about 150,000. My wife makes about 25,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have $175,000 income. How much debt have you got?

[Caller]

That's right. 80,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not counting the house.

[Caller]

Not counting the house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Break the 80 foot down for me. How much of that's cars?

[Caller]

I got 22,000 in the car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Only one car debt. Okay, what's the other? What's the other? 58,000.

[Caller]

So 20,000 in personal loan and the rest in consumer debt. Credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. She got 40 in credit cards.

[Caller]

About right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, what caused that? 40,000 in credit card debt.

[Caller]

Say that again.

I'm sorry.

[Jade Washall]

What caused the 40,000 in credit card debt?

[Caller]

We moved actually to the Nashville area about five years ago, so there was some of that and moving costs and there was medical bills, stuff like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And some overspending and stuff like that.

[Caller]

100% agree? Yes, correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, cool. So it sounds like you recently got a raise.

[Caller]

Yes, recently did get a raise. Started a new job.

[Dave Ramsey]

That gives you a wake up call. Okay, we got to clean this crap up now, right?

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. That's a good place to be. That's a good place to be emotionally. All right. So what we teach is a process called the baby steps, you may have heard of it, where we list your debts, or we say, first, get $1,000 set aside. Second one is list your debts. Smallest to largest. Live on beans and rice. Rice and beans. Scorched lifestyle. No going out to eat. No vacations, no whining. Work all the time and pay off the stinking debt as fast as you can. Oh, by the way, y' all need to have a plastic surgery party tonight and cut up those credit cards. Light a candle, have a ceremony, and chop those things up. They are destroying your freaking life. They're half of your debt. Yeah, and the next time we get ready to buy something, we're going to pay for it or we're not buying it.

[Caller]

We also have, you know, I have three kids. They're all in their activities, so there's, you know, travel, baseball, and competitive dance, and we're paying a healthy portion.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, maybe there is or maybe there isn't. You make $175,000 a year. Can you afford to continue to do that? You ask, you and your wife, ask yourselves, and get this debt paid off. Because, you know, I'm telling you, I'm not putting the family in debt for travel, baseball.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, something's gonna. You're going to feel the sacrifice of this somewhere.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's either. I don't know if you can do it or not. You guys gotta look at it. But the Two of you need to. Don't start this conversation with a reason you can't do this. Cause you can do it. It's just a matter of who's crying, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

We definitely need to get better about our budget. We haven't really tightened that up as well.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't even have one. You don't have to get better about it. You're going to have to do one, and then you're going to have to be sacrificial about it. And the more. So here's the deal. You make 1 75. If you lived on 95 freaking thousand dollars, not counting taxes, you'd be debt free in a year.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

But that's going to require a way different lifestyle than you guys have been living, because you all been buying everything in sight like you're in Congress and nobody in your house has heard the word no in a long time. Kids, you, your wife, anybody. So y' all are going to start looking at each other and go, no, because it's stealing your future. You make too much money now for this to continue to be the way to do things. Too many people get a raise and the way they celebrate it is a new car payment. You got to stop that. This has to be broken. This is a cycle that breaks. So you sit down with your wife tonight and go, okay, time for us to be grown up. And we're gonna have to reintroduce the ancient word to our household. The word is new.

[Jade Washall]

Period.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a complete sentence.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, it is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everybody practice it with me. You press your tongue towards the roof of your mouth. Make a kissing motion with your lips. It sounds like this. No. It's illegal to say that to any group or person in America today. No. But it's a healthy word. It sets you free. No. If collectors are blowing up your phone every day and you're living in constant fear of the next call, you're not living. You're surviving. You don't need more noise or more stress. You need help you can trust. That's why I recommend Guardian Litigation Group. Guardian isn't a call center reading from a script. They're real attorneys who can step into the courtroom and fight back when creditors try to sue you. Debt settlement isn't glamorous. It's not the preferred path. I'd still rather see you pay it off the old fashioned way. But if you're overwhelmed, out of options, and trying to avoid bankruptcy, Guardian can help quiet the chaos and give you a real way forward. With no upfront fees, their attorneys have helped more than 55,000 people settle over $600 million in debt. And when the noise stops, you can breathe again. To learn more, go to guardianlit.com Ramsey that's guardianlit.com Ramsey Attorney Advertising Results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. In the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one best selling author is my co host. Today Nicole is in Detroit. Hi Nicole, how are you?

[Caller]

You.

Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I, better than we deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I was calling. So basically my husband has refused to like give me financial visibility into his life. He has put his foot down like, you know, literally, like, no, you cannot see anything that I have going on financially. I can tell you about it, but you, you can't know anything that's going on. And the reason why it happened is we were in a position to buy a home and the housing counselor and the lender that we were working with asked about our finances. And I found myself saying, well, I don't, I don't know. Let me hold, let me, hold on, let me ask my husband. And then after our call was done, I told my husband, I said, you know, I have to say hold on to anyone. Let me ask my husband.

[Jade Washall]

Right.

[Caller]

Should know what's going on, you know,

in that part of your life. It's like we're roommates. It's like you, you're over here.

[Dave Ramsey]

How did that go?

[Caller]

He, he said, I'm a grown man. I do not have to show you anything financially in my life. I said, you're a deacon. You're a deacon and you're my husband. I said, we're supposed to be one. That you saying that makes us not be one. And what he said, me showing you my money has nothing to do with us being one. My husband is a deacon.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, but this is.

[Dave Ramsey]

So where are we now?

[Caller]

So I moved out. We, we were in a rental when I, when we came together eight years ago. It was, it was his house. So I moved in with him. We've been there for eight years. We were trying to work on getting our own house and because all this, I mean, it's so bad, Dave.

It's so bad.

[Jade Washall]

But what else is going on? Cause this was explosive. So what else is going on? I have a feeling that it wasn't. This has not been the only issue is what I'm gathering.

[Caller]

Yeah, no. So he has a 21 year old son and his son is very disrespectful he basically, it's basically like he runs the house. And if I try to say anything to him about his son, what his son does, if I try to tell him stuff that goes on when he's not around, he never believes me. So it's just, it's just bubbling over.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can we help you today, hun?

[Caller]

So I just want to know. So we've separated. He has filed divorce papers, but I haven't signed them yet. I'm trying to talk to him, but he is not talk to a bowl.

[Jade Washall]

Gotcha.

[Caller]

That's not a word.

[Jade Washall]

Have you suggested some sort of counsel? Have you suggested, hey, this is really bad, we need to get in counseling. What did he say?

[Caller]

Yes, I said that and he said no, because that person is not gonna tell me that I have to allow you to see my money.

[Jade Washall]

See, here's the thing, and I'm just gonna go ahead and say this. This is based off of just what you've told me, so take it with a grain of salt. And this based on what you're saying, there's something going on he doesn't want you to see. And maybe it does have to do with his stature or how people view him. He doesn't want you to have any parts of what he's doing with his money. Maybe that's a blessing. He's the one that's filed for divorce. Maybe this is you dodging a bullet. I don't know. I don't know. But this sounds like somebody who doesn't. It sounds like somebody who's got extremely high pride that they cannot be told nor learn anything about a better way to exist in a relationship. That's what you've told me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, the, and the, the weird thing is, is that all of his finances are now going to get exposed in the divorce.

[Jade Washall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it's ironic the judge is not going to go along with his plan.

[Jade Washall]

Very ironic.

[Dave Ramsey]

100% of his finances have to be exposed or he's going to have to lie to the court, which will get him put in jail. So you don't lie to the court, not even divorce court. So, you know, he has to come, he has to show all the stuff to the lawyers and it has to all come before the judge and he's going to find out that half of it's yours. That's going to be very weird for him.

[Caller]

Well, we only been married two years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that doesn't matter.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, I thought it was eight. So you've been in the house for eight years, married to okay, what are you concerned about? Are you concerned that there's debt that your name might be on that you don't know about?

[Caller]

Actually, so before we separated, I had to find out the hard way that he had a garnishment on my. On my account. And so I had to ask him several times to get it taken care of. He got them to remove it and put it on his bank account, but he was not happy about it. And, you know, so I was just like for you to be so angry with me and telling me, no, you won't allow me to see you financially, but you got a garnishment on my. On my account. How is that fair?

[Jade Washall]

There's probably some shame going on that you don't know about. There's probably a lot here going on that you don't know about. And it's. Now granted, I don't know what parts you've contribute to whatever messes here. I'm sure there's is two, you know, two sides to everything. But. But my guess is there's some things going on that might be causing him some sh. Or, you know, it might be just the way he views those gender roles that you guys never aligned on. That money is the man's thing. And it's not. Who knows? But it's never gonna come out. Cause he won't go to counseling with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's gonna come out in the divorce. You're gonna find out everything about his money in the divorce, which is the irony of him filing for divorce because you wanted to find out what was going on with the money. So it's kind of ironic. And he just, he's just, he's just dumb enough, he doesn't know that. So this is gonna be a real surprise to him. It's gonna be this awesome wake up call because the judge doesn't really care about. The judge doesn't really care about his theories. He's just going to tell him what to do. And if you don't do it, you're in contempt of court. And it's really nasty. You don't want to screw around with the judge. So this is where he's going. The question you asked, I have a sad, horrible answer for what can I say to him to make him want to do this? And the answer is nothing. There's not anything you can say to it. I wish there was one phrase, one way of doing it, but this is a very entrenched position that he has taken to the point he's willing to give up his marriage over this. And so there's not a single phrase. If he was coming to the table and saying, hey, I want to work on this, let's go to counseling, I could give you some things to say to do all that, but in this situation, you know, you're just going to be, you know, just throwing water against the wall. There's nothing happening here. So I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you chose poorly in a husband. This guy's bad news.

[Jade Washall]

Too bad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you wouldn't. No one listening that has a daughter would want their daughter to marry this guy. Not a person out there, regardless of how much Nicole contributed or whatever else was going on in the house, all that kind of thing. But this is a guy that is not in a good place and he's not helpful and he's not a good husband. And that's sad. There's not a single phrase that's gonna make him not be a jerk. I don't have the not be a jerk phrase. I don't have one of those. And I'm sorry. I wish it was. I wish it was something we could just do. But unless he just decides that he wants to be together, unified, work together in full visibility and in order to save his marriage and start with a marriage counselor, then you're. You're not gonna make it, kiddo. I'm sorry. I wish you.

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[Dave Ramsey]

Maria is in Arkansas. Hi Maria, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call. I'm a little nervous, but I guess I'm trying to get an advice from my husband and I. We're trying to start building our forever home. And sometimes we're like, yeah, let's go ahead and you know, get in bed, you know, take a loan out. And then there's times where we usually Be like, well, what if we just cash flow everything, call it a day, we are debt free. Anything like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's good.

[Caller]

And we have been saving for the past couple of years. Both of us got a raise, a pretty big raise.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much have you saved right now?

[Caller]

It's a little bit over 180k.

[Dave Ramsey]

100 what?

[Caller]

80.

[Dave Ramsey]

$180,000. Wow. And what is the house going to cost?

[Caller]

The quote that we got is around between 380 and 390.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Did you save 180 in two years?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Jade Washall]

Excellent.

[Caller]

Yes. So, you know, like I said, we try to figure out if it's okay for us to stop investing right now. Just for a couple of years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Or,

you know, to put all that money into cash flow in the house

or if it's okay for us to

take out a HELOC.

[Jade Washall]

Did you save 180 while investing 15%?

[Caller]

Yes. No, we were not investing 15%. We only investing between 5 and 8.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. I would stop investing completely. I'm with you. And I would cash flow this thing. And here's the thing you need to remember, it'll take you a year to build it.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you can start in one year. Because you need two years worth of savings, you'll have the whole amount, right?

[Caller]

Yes. That's what we're hoping for. You. If everything works out the way, you know, we kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would start the house in one year. I'd get all my plans done. Have you got the lot already?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's already paid for? Yes.

[Caller]

We.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it paid for? I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Yes, it's paid for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. So all we gotta do is just cover the bricks and mortar. Do you have your plans done?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

You have your builder selected?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesomeness. Okay, well, what we do, what I've done a couple times, including the building we're sitting in, as a matter of fact, I did not have 100% of the money in the bank when we broke ground, but I knew it would be here by the time I needed it. Meaning that if it takes you a year to build and it takes you two years to save the money, then you'd be safe to start building in one year. Does that make sense to you?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes, definitely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And if you can do this in two years and stop everything and you'll have a paid for $380,000 plus the lot. 400, $450,000. House.

[Caller]

House.

[Jade Washall]

Sweet.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you guys?

[Caller]

I'm 32. And he's 37.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's amazing.

[Jade Washall]

What's your incomes?

[Caller]

It's a hundred and around. 150.

[Jade Washall]

How'd you save this money?

[Dave Ramsey]

So far, you guys live on nothing.

[Caller]

Well, we. We. I think we're pretty good savers.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you're above average. Yeah, it's very impressive. And so here's the thing.

[Caller]

We don't have them much.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you move. If you moved in two years from today, would you be okay with that?

[Caller]

I think I just want to go

ahead and get started.

I don't mind getting the loan just because I guess I'm more of the. On the more emotional side.

[Dave Ramsey]

You don't really want a loan, you just want a house?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah, I guess you can say that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, I mean, like I said, what we teach is best is paying cash. Next best is a house you can pay off in 15 years. In your case, you can pay it off in one year. If you started today and it was finished in one year, you would need to borrow one year's worth of savings rate or about $100,000, and you'd pay that off in one year.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

My fear is, is that you'll let your foot off the gas and not pay it off in one year. That's my fear. So I would love to talk you into waiting just one extra year, which will go pretty fast. I mean, to me, it feels like Covid was like last month, and it was five, almost six years ago.

[Caller]

I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so my point is, this thing goes fast. So if you start, you know, I don't know. You guys keep talking about it, but anywhere in there is fine with me. If you want to start now, you're not doing anything stupid. It's not. It's good, better, best. Okay. And what you guys are talking about, cash flow and 100% is the best. I love that. There's no hiccups in that, you know, better than. But. But, you know, and still in the good range is paid it off in one year, which is if you took a loan out today. And you don't need to take out a loan today, you'd need to take out a loan somewhere in the building process because you won't quite have enough to finish it.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

But I mean, you could get started today, put 180 into it. If you slow walk the project.

[Jade Washall]

I was gonna say anyway.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it takes 18 months.

[Jade Washall]

You'll be there.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can make it. You know, you'll make it out. So just, you know, but. But just be looking at that and thinking about This I like the plan of taking debt off the table. And we have to push this through because it makes you do a whole bunch of stuff. Keeps you from having scale creep in the kitchen. You know, you select a different dishwasher, you select a different whatever. And I'll add one other thing to this on the emotions, okay. You can justify a lot of things emotionally when you say, it's my forever house. I've been doing this for a long time, and I grew up with parents in the real estate business. There is no such thing as a forever house. You will not be there forever. Statistically, the chances of you dying in this house are very close to zero. Very close. So this idea of a forever house, there's only one. It's heaven. That's it. You don't have a forever house here. You're going to move, stuff's going to happen, things are going to change that you can't see good and bad that are going to give you an opportunity to move up, move out, move somewhere. And this is a great house, and it's a great plan and all of that. But take the pressure off of a forever house, because it's like. Because then everything has to be perfect. And I've built a bunch of houses that I live in, and they're never perfect. It's never a perfect process. It's a very messy, combative, combustive process. And if you put the pressure on it that it has to be perfect because we're gonna be here forever, it's just too much. You can't breathe in that. Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Plus, you're gonna look at it in five years and want things to look a little different anyway.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I don't even wanna talk about it.

[Jade Washall]

Just saying. Sounds like you have a little experience with that,

[Dave Ramsey]

man. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I sold. I was actually. When I was 22, I was selling houses in a subdivision where we built custom homes. And the people in there that were the hardest to deal with were the ones that had. They thought this was gonna be their last home or their only home ever. And that puts the pressure on the process to be perfect.

[Jade Washall]

Can't be.

[Dave Ramsey]

They are over there every day driving the subs crazy. You know, let them do their work. It's a piece of drywall. Let them do their job. Okay, Good. For God's sakes. You know, and it's just. It. And it changes their pressure on how fast we get this done and how much money we take and how much money we spend and all that. So, anyway, all that to say, Maria, I think you guys have done an extraordinary job. Way to go. We're proud of you. And if you start this month and you take on a little debt and you pay it off fast, that's not the dumbest thing in the world. But one step smarter would be to cash flow it. So. And anywhere in between there, like, we start in six months and we go 18 months to build it. Oh, now we made it. You know, that kind of thing.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, I think that's what's going to end up happening anyway.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Takes a minute, Takes a hot minute to get all this stuff done. But, yeah, it's a great, great way to go. And when you're paying cash like this, you're going to watch every dollar in the budget with the builder, make sure everything's dialed in and you push all those buttons. It makes a big deal. I don't get that call very often.

[Jade Washall]

No, I love a call like that. She has options and she has time, which is.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she's got money and money saved it all. They live on nothing.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty impressive.

[Caller]

Sam,

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[Dave Ramsey]

One of our favorite things is when people share their stories about how they're winning. Fan quote we love this app. It makes our everydollar, makes our life super easy to budget. With my husband, we've implemented this practice since our wedding day and we've had zero money fights because there's full transparency. We're on the same page. See, that's amazing. You can do this too, folks. You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree. You can live like no one else. Go download the Every Dollar budget app for free in the App Store or Google Play. John is with us. John's in Atlanta. Hi, John. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm good. How are you, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I'm 22 years old. I'm graduating college in May and I want to buy a car, but I'm not sure if I can afford it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

All right, well, how much money do you have and how much do you want to spend on the car?

[Caller]

So, car is $13,000 and I have about $11,000 in cash. But I do have some savings, some investments, about 40,000, as well as, you know, 9,000 in a Roth IRA.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller]

So I'm going to be graduating in three months and when I graduate I'll make about $65,000 a year doing one. What? Going into the wholesale insurance industry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

And you've already secured that job?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, cool, cool, cool. I mean, if you're going to be making 65, you're under our rule and you're paying cash for it. I don't necessarily have an issue with that. What's going to be your living situation?

[Caller]

I'm just going to keep living with my parents and maybe help them pay off the mortgage.

[Jade Washall]

Now that's the part that I have an issue with with. Tell me about why you would continue to live there. I'm assuming you don't have any other debt. Am I wrong?

[Caller]

Is because it's. They only live about 30 minutes from where I'll be working and I'd rather start saving up money before getting a place of my own.

[Jade Washall]

You may have cut out when I asked you about the debt. Do you have any other debt?

[Caller]

I have no debt.

[Jade Washall]

You have no debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

So my $40,000 in saving, $65,000 income

[Jade Washall]

and a brand new car. Why do you gotta live at home? This is your time to strike out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really?

[Caller]

Right after I graduate?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, absolutely.

[Jade Washall]

Yes. It's the best time, the most exciting time.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

It'll help your dating life too.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow.

[Caller]

I'll bet.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Girls are not as exactly attracted to guys who live in their mother's basement. Investment. Wow.

[Jade Washall]

It's true.

[Caller]

You know, it's okay to pull money out of my investments, even though about half of it, 20,000 is capital gain.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what do you need to pull back $2,000.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the car you're wanting to buy?

[Caller]

So it is a 1999 Mercedes SL500.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I would not buy that car.

[Caller]

Oh come on.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. And here's why. The car is absolutely stone cold fabulous. I love the car. The maintenance on that car for a guy in your situation is absurd. Maintaining that old Mercedes is going to cost you a freaking arm and one of your legs. It's going to destroy you, man. You're going to wish you had never seen that car. Let me tell you. It's serious eye candy though. I'm with you. It is an absolutely beautiful automobile and it's a classic. I love what you're looking at, but dude, it's going to cost you 5,6000 bucks a year to keep this stinking thing rolling. Can you tell I've owned a Mercedes or 2 or 6 or 20. I mean I've had a bunch of them and there's a lot of cost to keep the thing rolling. Get you something that doesn't cost anything to maintain, that is going to be just as much fun and that would be a newer model, similar price range of something that doesn't require constant stinking maintenance. Okay, that's an old man joke, man, but it's the truth.

[Jade Washall]

So we've just told you to do the two things not to do the two things that you called on here wanting to do, which is buy the Mercedes and live at your parents house.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are the odds you do either one of them, John?

[Caller]

I will, I will. Don't worry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. So yeah, I think if you had a, a fun car that was very highly reliable and requires Almost no maintenance that is 13 to, or 10 to $15,000 and you pay cash for it and you make a 90 day plan to move out from mom and dad after you get started in your job and you're actually making the 65k, I think that's a great plan and that's what I would tell my own son to do. Okay. Buy something that doesn't require maintenance, man. I'll tell you that's a great car though.

[Jade Washall]

I don't know anything about the car. I just googled it to see what it looks like. Yeah, classic. It was classic.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's a. Yeah, I think it's a beauty. Yeah, it's a good old looking, good looking old Mercedes. And yeah, it's great but they just, it doesn't matter. Every time I take things shop, it's just a Ted gum man. It's unbelievable. And so they are not easy to maintain. Well, they're not cheap to maintain. And the fact that you buy a cheap car but then you're having a high maintenance bill.

[Jade Washall]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you don't buy a cheap car, then get something that doesn't have to work on all the time.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. Let's talk about real quick this living at home business. Because he was the stark opposite of Alvaro who did his debts free scream on Friday. Okay, so Alvaro graduated from college similar age and lived at home. Made his parents a deal and said can I live at home debt free for me to pay off? I think it was 70 or $90,000 of student loans. Cuz he had done the math and said if I pay interest, if I do this, it's going to take too long. And he said and after a year, if I'm not working hard enough, you can charge me double rent. And so a year passed. They saw he was working very hard. He ended up paying off all the student loans. Did his debt free screen. Perfect example of saying I'm going to graduate, I'm going to live at home for a short period of time in order to win.

[Dave Ramsey]

Clean up the mess.

[Jade Washall]

Very clean. What my guy John wanted to do is pile up cash is pile up cash. And I, I personally wouldn't do that unless you have debt to pay off. But just to sit at home and just stack up money at such a key point in life when it's time for you to go out and be your own person, I just wouldn't do it. I think it's more detriment than good at that point.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just my personal opinion, you're trying to look at this only through the lens of money. And there's social development, there's career development, there's confidence, there's everything else involved. So each one of our kids, we love them dearly and they were more than welcome to stay in our home forever. Except it wasn't good for them.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so we, we help them make arrangements within a month or two of graduation to be on their own. And when you pay your own light bill, you make your own bed, you buy your own milk. Now you're an adult, your mommy's not cleaning your underwear. I mean it's time, you know. And honestly, you're more attractive to employers because you walk different. You're more attractive to the opposite sex because you walk different. You have the shoulders thrown back, a little confidence, little swagger, like I got this.

[Jade Washall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I'm, you know, and I'm actually doing it. And there's a confidence that comes from having the dignity of being on your own. And we've got a large percentage of you parents out there who are encouraging your children to not develop into adults because you got a whole bunch of 26 year olds living in mommy's basement and they've all got an opinion about capitalism with their $1,100 Apple phone, which is more than just humorously stupid. Stupid as well. So the, you know, it changes everything. It changes everything. When you start, it's on me. There's no bread in the cabinet because I didn't buy bread. It's on me and it changes everything.

[Jade Washall]

I think so.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I, we're, we're hurting this generation by not allowing them to do some hard things.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, no shade on John. Like he's done a great job. He, you know, came out of college with no debt. He's got money saved, all of those good things. But that's also understanding you're in a great position to be on your own. It's okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is why you do this.

[Jade Washall]

This is good.

[Dave Ramsey]

I left with a $12 in my checking account. So that's how hillbillies do it. I'm just saying. But yeah.

[Jade Washall]

When I moved out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Get out.

[Jade Washall]

When I moved out of my parents house, I moved into a friend's apartment that already had two roommates. So I had a futon in the living room.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh.

[Jade Washall]

And that's all I had had. But I wanted to get out. I was ready.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hello, net worth. Yeah, when your net worth is a futon.

[Jade Washall]

That's all I had. It was not comfortable. 10 out of 10 wouldn't recommend.

[Caller]

Sa.

[Dave Ramsey]

Today's question of the day is brought to you by. Why refi if defaulted? Private student loans are wrecking your budget. It's time to deal with them. Why refi helps you refinance defaulted private student loans with a low fixed rate payment based on your ability to pay so you can stick to the budget, work a plan, get out of Debt. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter Y, R, E, F Y might not be in all states.

[Jade Washall]

All right, today's question comes from Mason in New Hampshire. He says, I bought a house about five years ago. My name is on the deed and my dad co signed so I could get a lower interest rate. Now my dad is pressuring me to refinance to get his name off the loan. I'm not behind on payments. Am I legally obligated to do this? I don't think I should have to refinance because he made the choice to sign for me.

[Caller]

Me.

[Jade Washall]

I like this question. Are you legally obligated? No, you're not legally obligated. My guess is your dad is trying to do something else financially. Maybe he's. I don't know, who knows? Maybe he's trying to buy a house, but he's got a lot of this debt tied to his name. Or maybe he realized co signing is really a stupid, stupid act and he's trying to make that right. I don't know what you guys conversations have been like, but if I were in your shoes, Mason, my guess is one of two things is taking place. Number one, if you've looked at refinancing to get his name off and you've realized you cannot afford the loan on your own, that might be something that's keeping you from doing this. And if that's the case, if you

[Dave Ramsey]

paid the bill for five years and you paid it on time, refinancing should not be a problem. It shouldn't be the cost to refinance. Maybe your dad wants to chip in some of that to get his name off the loan.

[Jade Washall]

And so my guess is it's an interest rate thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, my guess is he just didn't want to fool with it and he thought this was a forever deal. So here's the bottom line, Mason. What you all did was stupid. He should not have done this, because at the moment he was trying to help his kid get a house, but there was no end to the deal. In your mind. In his mind, he wants to get off of it now, and you're just like, well, he could stay on there forever and screw up his life forever because he can't buy nothing else. As long as his name is on this, this is a liability in his name. So he's gonna have trouble getting a mortgage himself is the problem, or refinancing his mortgage is a problem, anything like

[Jade Washall]

that, he can't do anything. He's stuck.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it was a stupid idea and now you guys are tied at the hip and it's not bothering you at all. So yeah, yes, you should refinance this on a moral basis, not on a legal basis. If at all possible, I'd figure out a way to refinance it. And if I was your dad and I wanted off this loan, I'd pay the closing costs to get rid of the thing and help you guys get it done and get the deal done. So here's the thing, folks. If someone can't afford to buy the property or buy the item without a cosign or it's going to be a pinch later. The banks, they love to loan money more than they love to breathe. And if they won't loan you money without a cosigner, it's because you're not eligible. Hello. They would love to give you money and rip you off in any possible way they can. And then parents come along, go, oh, I'll help you get screwed. You know, that's just dumb. And dads and moms, you're not a blessing to your child when you do this. You're helping them step into a bear trap. Going, step right here, son. This is how it's done. That's dumb. Okay, don't do this because you get in these situations. Is what happens worse than this situation is where the guy's not paying the bill. We get that one all the time.

[Jade Washall]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, my grandmother. My grandmother co signed for my car, and it's 42% interest. And now my granny's about to get screwed because I'm going to get repoed. 100% of these deals go bad. Of course it goes bad. So please, please, please do not co sign. It's in the Bible. Proverbs 17:18. One lacking in sense, co signs for another. It's what the Bible says. So you're lacking in sense when you do this. I have cosigned back in my earlier days, and I got to pay the bill almost every time one cosign for me. And then I went broke and he ended up paying the bill.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, man.

[Dave Ramsey]

Had to go back and pay him back later. His wife still not happy with me 30 years later because we were fools signing up for a bunch of crap that we thought was going to work out that everybody else knew wasn't going to work out. Carson is in Cincinnati. Hey, Carson. How are you? Good.

[Caller]

Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay. Hey. So my wife and my stepson, they live separate from me. They're German citizens, and they're waiting to get their visas approved so they can live here with me. But that is expected to take anywhere between one to two years from now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are they in Germany?

[Caller]

They are. Yes, sir. Okay, so my question is, how should I be prioritizing my time alone and what debts should I be focusing on to make sure that my family is set up for success when they get here?

[Dave Ramsey]

And how long you been married?

[Caller]

September.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. And how'd you meet?

[Caller]

I was stationed over there in the army.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you for your service.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you get married, I don't know how this stuff works. I'm ignorant about it. It takes two years to get a foreign citizen wife on site.

[Caller]

Well, if we had gotten married while I was still in the army, it would have been a lot quicker. But we decided to get married after I got out. And the current administration has been very fluid with immigration. So that was the update I received was 12 to 24 months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Shoot. Okay, I'm going to keep getting updates and I'm going to keep, keep learning if I'm you. Because that's an unacceptable answer as far as I'm concerned. But the. Because the current administration has not got a war going with people coming here legally. It's the ones coming here illegally. And so they're not trying to put a block on immigration in general. That's not, that's not the spirit of what's happening out there right now. I was with some customs guys yesterday. So anyway, I don't know anything about the law on that or the regulations today, but I'm going to keep pushing. If I mute answer to your question is we'll get out of debt as fast as you can, as much as you can, and stack as much cash as you can. Right?

[Caller]

Right. Okay, so I got the numbers and I'll share them with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, tell us.

[Caller]

Okay, so my net income, I receive $5,200 a month for my job and I receive compensation from the VA for injuries. That is $2,300 a month on top of the 52? Yes. For a total of $7,500 net per month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Jade Washall]

Okay.

[Caller]

The debts that I have, I have a mortgage for a house that I bought for 153,000. I have 140 remaining on the mortgage. I have 26,000 in home renovations on a loan that I've got and $13,000 in student loans and $4,300 in credit card debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cut up the credit cards. Let's get on a tight budget, pay them off as fast as you can, then pay off the student loan. You gotta be able to do that pretty quick if it's just you. Are you sending money to Germany?

[Caller]

I am. A portion of my check is going over there to her to support her while we wait.

[Dave Ramsey]

How is she being supported before you got married?

[Caller]

So she still works a job right now. She has just moved out of her apartment to her mother's house to get ready for when we do get the green light for the VISA to move over here.

[Jade Washall]

Does she have any debt or anything that we need to take note of.

[Caller]

She has a $6,000 loan on the car remaining. I've offered to pay that off for her but she has elected not to.

[Jade Washall]

Is there.

[Caller]

She has a sense I don't have a sense of duty to pay it off. She feels it was her loan, she wants to pay it off herself.

[Jade Washall]

Well, here's the thing. I know that you guys are living separately but you are married. So there's really no reason to not attack this together and work on this together. So I, I mean if the six thousand dollar car loan is the only thing, even if it wasn't, I would still stack this into a debt snowball and I would still combine you guys margin together and all of your monies together and whatever the margin you both have together goes at the smallest debt which in this case still is the credit card.

[Dave Ramsey]

She's still working and she went from an apartment to mother. She shouldn't be needing money.

[Jade Washall]

That's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

There should be more margins. She's making it before now. She should be easily making it. And so you shouldn't be having to send money and use it to clean up debt. What I would do. But hey, it sounds like you gotta got it on the run though. List your debts, smallest to largest. Attack them in that order. Dude. Welcome back to the Ramsey show and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host Jade Washall Ramsey personality is my co host. Number one best selling author Kerry is in Detroit. Hey Carrie, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi. Longtime listener, big fan. I'd like to thank you very much because I'm finally to baby step four.

[Jade Washall]

Way to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go.

[Caller]

I am 51 years old. Well gonna be 50 years old this year. I have not invested anything. I was widowed very young. I just spent the last 17 years trying to survive and raise my two kids. Like I said, I just got to baby step four. I have about 20,000 put away into savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

I have nothing left but my house which I have about 90,000 on. And I am about six years into a 15 year mortgage on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Phenomenal. What do you make?

[Caller]

I make roughly around 64,000 a year. It is a little bit variable because I'm in business for myself so I'm a housekeeper. So there are times that people cancel on me. So but for the most part my income is right around 5,500amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Well done.

[Caller]

My question is never investing, never having any type of retirement or anything. Where do I start to invest? Especially with the market being volatile and having no financial education on how to invest money at this point.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's a really, really good question. I love your question.

[Caller]

Also, do I invest more than 15% at this point? Because I have a little bit of cash fluidity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nope. You put it on the house. Let's get the house paid off above 15%. Baby steps 4, 5, and 6. Work together. Sit down with a SmartVestor Pro. Click smartvestor proamseesolutions.com Their job is not to do it for you. Their job is to teach you and say, here's how a mutual fund works. Here's what it is. Here's how stable this type of fund is. Here's how volatile this other type of fund is, and here's what we can do with a Roth IRA for you and probably a. You got employees?

[Caller]

No, I am sole proprietor and worker.

[Dave Ramsey]

Perfect. Okay. Then you can look at a simple IRA as well or a simplified pension plan. Either one, you can do Roth and all of them. So you can easily get to 15% of your income going in. You'll be just easy to do that in your situation. Start with just a Roth, and then if you have to do a little bit more in an Sepp, a simplified employee pension plan. It's easy to do. They're very easy to set up. They're very inexpensive to set up. Not a lot of fees. And then just start putting a systematically 15% of your income away. If you never get a raise and you do that for the next 15 years, you're going to retire with dignity.

[Caller]

Thank you. Because that has been a huge worry of mine.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, not anymore. Not when you learn the math. Okay? So one of the things you do when you sit down with them, you say, okay, what's 15% of 65,000? All right, so quickly we're going to figure out that that is $10,000, okay? It's about 850 bucks a month. And you start doing that, and you do that for 15 years, you're going to have a bazillion freaking dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars. I can't do it in my head right now, but you're going to have plenty. Okay? And you can actually look at the calculator on the Ramsey website and it'll help you figure that out, too. But you just steadily invest. And we're not going to wring our hands and worry about the market being volatile because the market is up, the market is down. But you don't lose all your money. It just makes a little more. It makes a little less that's all it is. It's like some years houses go up but more in value, and some years they do. They don't. Right?

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But they're still a good investment. They're volatile, but there's a good investment. Not very volatile, but they're. They do go up and down. There's not a guarantee, but you're counting on the track record of real estate. It's always going up some years more than others. Some years may be down a little, but most of the time it goes up. A good mutual fund or series of mutual funds in your Roth IRA will do the same thing, and you'll have plenty. You're going to be okay. But you need to learn about all of that and to where, because what happens is your anxiety about the markets, your anxiety about investing and not knowing goes away the more you do know.

[Caller]

Absolutely. Because right now I am completely bound by fear because I don't know anything. And it's taken me so far just to get to this point.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what that fear should do is drive you to learn, not drive you to not do it.

[Caller]

Right. And that's where I've been hesitant.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. So that's normal. There's two kinds of. There's two kinds of fear. There's two kinds of fear. Fear that helps us avoid touching a hot stove. Good fear. Fear that keeps us. That's false evidence appearing real. It's just something we don't know about it. We're teaching our child to ride a bicycle. They're afraid. But you and I know they're going to be okay. Okay, they may fall over, scratch their little knee, but they're going to be okay. And they're going to have hours and hours and hours and years of enjoyment of riding a bicycle. So we put them to push them through the false evidence appearing real. They're not going to die. They're going to fall over. Oops. Okay. And so you learn that this is. That's what this is. You're learning to ride a bike. You're not going to have any scratch knees, by the way, but you are going to have the fear of the unknown, which is different than the fear of the hot stove.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, you can do this. If I were in your shoes, I would start with reading. And Ramsey Solutions has wonderful articles that are very easy to read and comprehend and understand. And I would start there. And if a word pops up that you're like, what do they mean by that? I would look up the definition and I would just go down that rabbit trail and Learn more and more and more and do that regularly. And after a while, the words that used to sound scary and big and you don't know what that means, that goes away and you start to understand it more. And that way, when you do go to meet with your SmartVestor, you're gonna understand what they're talking about, and it's not gonna feel like they're up here and you're down here.

[Dave Ramsey]

But their job is to put the cookies on a shelf where you can reach them. That's their job, is to make this easy, make it easy to understand. And if it's not easy to understand, get you a different person. Don't use that person.

[Caller]

Correct. Are there any books that you would also recommend?

[Jade Washall]

Baby Steps, Millionaires.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Matter of fact, we'll give it to you. Okay, hang on. We'll sign you up for that. Yeah, just check SmartVestor [e-mail] and sit down. You're looking for financial people with the heart of a teacher. Too many people around numbers think they need to sound like Charlie Brown's teacher. I have no idea what the freak they said, right? So, no, you want somebody that talks in a language that you can understand and they teach you. This is how this works. And here's a mutual fund that's been open 100 years. Here's a mutual fund that's been open 90 years. It's had four down years in the last 27 years. And you can look at the chart and go, oh, look at that. The stinking thing made money 24 out of 27 years. Okay, that gives me a comfort level. That's an actual fund, by the way. Okay. So you can look at these things and get a handle on that. And then you go, oh, okay. Well, then maybe it's not as scary. Ooh, the markets. And everybody lost all their money. No, they didn't. And lose some because they buy high and sell low because they freak out and don't watch what's going on. So that's the difference. So you're going to do really, really good. You're going to end up wealthy, and you deserve to be. You've worked hard. You been a warrior. Single mom, very good. A warrior princess, cleaning houses to raise those kids. And now you're going to retire with dignity. I'm so proud of you. Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey, Ask Your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. Greg is in Nashville. Hey Greg, how are you?

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

I'm good.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I have some whole life policies that me and my wife got like, like once we were like 20. I'm 50, I'll be 55 this year.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry.

[Caller]

And I, I know, I know, I've heard, I've been listening to you for the last year or so. But my question is on it. Should we cash surrender those? There's each about a hundred thousand cash surrender. I don't think we have to pay on anymore. I think they've, we've had them since we were so young that I think they pay for themselves each year now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I don't know if it's worth, I don't necessarily need, I mean I could always use extra money but I don't know if it's worth doing the cash to render on those policies or just leave them. They're small. I think they're $150,000 policies or something like that when we got them originally.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you have $150,000 policy with $100,000 cash value, is that right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have two.

[Caller]

And you have two of them grows like they sold you on that stuff when you're young.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm going to make sure I understand what you've got. Stop a second. Do you have two $150,000 policies and each of them have $100,000 cash value in them?

[Caller]

Yes. If we were to surrender them now.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what I'm asking. Okay, good. Okay. And so if you die, you know they keep the hundred thousand. Right. So you have $50,000 worth of insurance in essence. Do you follow me?

[Caller]

Yeah, that. I kind of heard that the other day on one of your shows and I, that I didn't understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't understand it either because it's the biggest screwdriver of the middle class in my life I've ever seen. But it happens all the time. So that's how a whole life policy

[Caller]

have a $2 million term policy that we got a few years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're covered if you die, right? You don't need, need them.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Caller]

No. And, and My question is even about the term too is like do I need to keep that up as my value or like my personal value or me, my wife's value is over that amount. Should I like do I need that life insurance or is it just keeping.

[Dave Ramsey]

What life insurance is for is to take care of her if something happens to you. You, if you have $5 million in mutual funds, you don't need life insurance. She's taken care of. Okay, does that make sense?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

What? How life insurance for is to take care of you if something happens to her. And if you have a big pile of money and you're okay without her income, then she doesn't need. You're self insured on all of it. Okay, then back to the whole life. The whole life is paying an average of about 2% in growth on that hundred thousand. Had that 100,000 been in mutual funds last year, it would have made 24% on average it would have made more like 12%. So you're losing somewhere around 10 to $20,000 a year in growth because that's so poorly invested. Oh and by the way, when you die, they're going to pay $150,000 out.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not 100 question, not plus 100,000.

[Caller]

Do I have to pay if we do the cash surrender, do we have to pay tax on that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Your tax basis in a whole life policy is what you have paid into it over all these years. I Suspect you've paid $100,000 into this over all these years.

[Caller]

I would assume so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your basis is probably higher. It almost always is. If it's not, it won't be by much. So if you have taxes it'll be very, very, very small. All but you're. If you just say here's what my premiums were over this number of years and number of months or whatever it is that you know, the 25 or 30 years you've been getting ripped off then easily you probably paid in 100k, you're going to get your money back out and yes, I would cash it in. And if what did you. What do you think your net worth is?

[Caller]

I mean I think it's close to six. You maybe sell everything? Yeah, if I were to sell everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

So do you think the, the current asset base would generate enough income for your wife to be okay if you died today?

[Caller]

I mean, I think so. I hope so.

[Dave Ramsey]

I hope so too. So yeah, I think, I think pretty easily.

[Caller]

That's, I mean that was kind of one of my other questions is I got this, I got Some industrial property that I don't necessarily need anymore that I have, that I still owe about. I mean if I were to sell it, I could cash that out for about 2 million bucks, maybe after taxes. But I do make income on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's up to you. What do you want your money invested in that's an investment. And then you look at it and say, is this an investment that's giving me enough yield on my money? I mean long term investments you ought to be making 10 plus percent on whatever it is, real estate, mutual funds, whatever. There's not really anything else that you should that's fairly low risk portfolio that'll do that. Mine make a lot more than that. And I don't take a lot of risk. But you got to look at that piece of industrial property, is it making you a good return? And then dump that. But folks, the whole life cash value policy is the biggest rip off in the financial planning world. I mean it's like the payday lender to the middle class. Payday lender screws poor people, right? And these people screw you. And it's a horrible rate of return. When you die, they keep your money because you've been paying extra for this savings account that you don't get. They only pay the face value when you die. It's that simple. And so get some inexpensive term insurance while you need insurance. This guy doesn't even need that anymore probably. And put your money, your investment money in good investments that go up and they don't keep it when you die. And then you're not building a building in the skyline for somebody else. Or you think those life insurance buildings came from. They didn't come from Santa Claus. I know that same place those banks came from. They didn't come from Santa Claus. It came from them screwing you with credit cards all these years. And you're just smiling and going, I got airline mine. And you're just getting screwed over and over and over again. And it's just, you know, that's how this stuff happens. It's called a transfer of wealth from you to them because they're screwing you. And so you just learn about these things and go, never again. Changes everything. James is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi James, how are you doing?

[Caller]

Well, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay. I have my youngest sister. She and her ex boyfriend inherited a quarter million dollars about three to four years ago. He has since passed from cancer and he at the time I was going through a messy divorce and he gave me $6,000 to pay for my lawyer so I can take care of my divorce. I was going through a rough time as a gift, and since then, you know, he's passed on, like I said, and she has blown through all that money in the meantime and is back to square one again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Caller]

And, yeah, and she has not come out and said directly to me, but I heard it through my other sister. And she keeps asking, you know, saying, hey, he needs to pay me back that $6,000. You know, that's. That was my money.

[Jade Washall]

And so she's saying that he. The boyfriend, got the money from her and lent it to you.

[Caller]

No, no, no. It was his. His parents. It was his inheritance from his parents.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. And. And I can afford to pay it back now. I'm in a good spot in my life, and I can afford to pay it back. I just don't feel like, Yeah, I have to. I've helped her out with bills and stuff now that she's gonna have a lot of money, like, you know, the occasional electric bill, things like that, where she's, you know, called me up and said, hey, can. You know, I've done stuff like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y' all are a hot mess, aren't you?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah. Right?

[Jade Washall]

Are you. Are you afraid that she's gonna do. You're just afraid. You're like, why do I give her another $6,000 to be irresponsible with is what you're saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

That.

[Caller]

And you know, she has three kids with them. They're a little older. They're 17, 18 in that range.

[Jade Washall]

But.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, there's James. There's two options, okay? The third option is not keep whining about it. Okay? I would either call her and say, your boyfriend gave me this money. It's a gift. I'm not gonna pay it back. Or I'd write her a check. But third option. I going to keep whining about this, and y' all keep this family drama going on, on, on. And who said what and who told George this? And good Lord for straighten it. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near [e-mail] agent. That's ramseysolutions.com. On the debt free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Chevy and Kyle, Caitlin are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?

[Caller]

Great. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do y' all live? Corn. Indiana. Okay, cool. And what's that? Near Louisville, Kentucky. Okay. All right. That works. Works for me. Perfect. How much debt have y' all paid off? We've paid off 95,000 in 34 months. Good for you. Way to go. And your range of income during that three years? Started at 113,000 and ended about 150. Good for you. What do y' all do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm an assistant nurse manager in a NICU in Louisville, Kentucky.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fun. Good for you. I'm an executive director of a maintenance facility at a trucking company. There you go. Good, good, good. What kind of Debt was the 95,000?

[Caller]

Our mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

You paid off your house? Looking at weird people. I love it. Way to go, you guys. What's the house worth?

[Caller]

Just under 500,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very cool. Very cool. And y' all been investing in retirement? Assume.

[Jade Washall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much are your nest eggs?

[Caller]

We're up to 130 between the three. Like 130 per account for three accounts.

[Jade Washall]

That's awesome.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're getting close to a million dollar net worth. Yeah, net worth. We figured it up on the drive down just a hair over 900,000. Almost eye blinking. You're going to be millionaires. How old are you two? 34 and 36. Wow. Way to go. Oh, I'm so proud of y'. All. Boom, boom, boom. Baby steps. Millionaires almost in a paid for house and not even 35 years old. Way to go. Excellent, excellent, excellent, excellent. Okay, so what started this whole journey? Doing this crazy Ramsey stuff that made you millionaires.

[Caller]

So Chevy did, actually. Right around the time that we got engaged, he came home and said, I think I want to do this program. And I kind of looked at him like he had six heads. I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.

Right.

Right now. So we used it as a premarital counseling kind of thing. Started our individual Snowballs back in 2017. And then when we got married, we combined our debt. So we actually entered Baby Step 7 for the first time in 2020, right around the time that Covid was shutting everything down. After that, we started a family and decided to upgrade our house. So we was able to take 100% of that house we had paid off and kind of move forward to the current House we have now. So we only had $95,000 in the mortgage when we bought our house in December of 22.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So a huge down payment from the other one.

[Jade Washall]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then had to knock that out quickly, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exciting. Good for you. Way to go, y'. All.

[Jade Washall]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you. How does it feel to be this free at this age?

[Caller]

Pretty great.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's awesome. You know, the grass definitely feels different underneath your feet when you step out there after the last house payment. Absolutely. Will you ever do it again? Go back in debt? No, it's not worth it. Next time, we'll save up to move up.

[Caller]

Yeah, we're pretty happy with our house right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it.

[Jade Washall]

I gotta believe that it played a big part in what house you selected, too. Kind of knowing the feeling of dead and not wanting to experience too much of that.

[Caller]

Yeah, definitely did.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it really worked out. I mean, when we hit baby step seven in 2020, when we paid off our house, it was shortly after that we lost our child. Our first born at 18 months.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, 18 weeks.

[Caller]

We lost a little girl, Ellison, at 18 weeks. And because we were in baby step seven, I was able to really step back from work and take some time off to get myself right before we moved forward in our lives. And that's kind of when we decided, like, we're gonna do things a little different from here on out. And we're so incredibly thankful we stuck when we did, or else I really don't know what we would have ended up in that situation. I wouldn't have been able to take that time off of work and really heal ourselves before moving forward. You just never really know what life's going to throw at you. And I think FPU really sets you up to be able to handle anything like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Such a heartbreak. And to have built a life that allowed you the luxury to step back and have a moment to heal from the most devastating possible thing that can happen.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amazing. Wow. Very cool. And you got kiddos, too.

[Caller]

We do. We have three. Two boys and a little girl. They're four, two, and eight months.

[Jade Washall]

How beautiful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, handful. Okay. We were hoping to get through this, the 95,000, a little quicker, but, you know, having three kids born in that timeline, it was. Slowed us down a little bit, I bet.

[Jade Washall]

Just a little. Just a little.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it was awesome, you know, but being able to cash flow, saving up for each child on top of paying the mortgage down, too. So you guys have been through this, in a sense, a couple of times. And so what do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt and be almost millionaires by the time you're 35?

[Caller]

Definitely communication. We still have budget meetings at the first of every month. We kind of walk through what we want to do that month if there's any big adjustments coming up. But there's definitely months that I've struggled staying on task a little more, and Muncie struggled staying on task a little more. So communication and definitely just lifting each other up when the other person's struggling.

[Jade Washall]

What are you gonna do to celebrate?

[Caller]

We got a few little projects around the house we want to do, and then definitely travel some more. We definitely like getting the kids out and showing them all the different things the world has to offer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, we just got back from New York City last weekend. We got caught in the blizzard. Oh, gosh. That was a blast. Yeah. Yeah, it was crazy, man. Get caught up there with babies. That'd be great. Really.

[Caller]

Mommy, daddy trip. That's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, that's good.

[Caller]

First trip out of the house without all three of them and got stuck in a blizzard.

[Dave Ramsey]

Still takes the edge off of it, but yeah. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Well, good for you guys. Congratulations. We're very, very proud of you. Do you have people encouraging you along the way or thought you were crazy?

[Caller]

A little bit of both. Yeah. Our families have definitely encouraged us along the way. Kind of kind of side eyeing us the whole time like, you guys are still a little crazy, but we're gonna support you in what you're gonna do. So we definitely couldn't have done it without our family support.

[Dave Ramsey]

They were definitely after us because I was selling everything I could find in the house left and right on ebay and Facebook.

[Jade Washall]

Well, I was gonna say, did you tell them you were doing it, or did they start noticing, you know, crazy behaviors? A little bit of both.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. It got to the point they were afraid to gift us something if we didn't actually want it or need it, because it would probably be up on ebay or Facebook. Wow. I would have given you something for Christmas, but you'd have sold it.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Dave Ramsey]

We actually heard that several times. That's funny. Well, way to go, y'. All. Did you bring the kiddos with you?

[Caller]

Yeah, they're here.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let's bring them up and introduce them for the debt free scream.

[Jade Washall]

Oh, man, I thought I heard them in the background.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, man.

[Caller]

This is Nash.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is a reason to change your family tree right here.

[Caller]

This is Finn, and this is Townsend.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, well, you Guys have got mom and dads that are heroes. They've taken care of you, they set you up for an incredible life. Yeah. You guys are in great, great shape. Well, so proud of you guys. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. Chevy and Caitlin from Indiana. 95,000 paid off in 34 months making 113 to 156 house and everything. We're looking at weird people. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Caller]

Ready boys? Three, two, one.

We're debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like it.

[Jade Washall]

That's great.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it, I love it, I love it. And then I read the articles of the millennials and the Gen Z's that can't get ahead and can't afford a house. But these guys figure out out on $156,000 income to not only have a paid for home, have three children and have a net worth approaching a million dollars very quickly. Not even 35 years old. So I don't know, it just, it confuses me that it can't be done and yet it's done every day here.

[Jade Washall]

Sounds like a combination of will and location. Will, location and income.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And those are all tied together by the way. You choose your location and you can choose your will and you can choose to affect your income in a lot of ways.

[Jade Washall]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But we talk to people that make twice that and think they can't afford a house.

[Jade Washall]

That's absolutely true.

[Dave Ramsey]

That housing prices are just out of reach for American couples today. You can't house affordability issues. We have affordability issues. I wish the President would wave a wand and make it all go away. I wish mommy and daddy would make me not make me be an adult difficult. But yeah, the math still is there and these people just did it.

[Jade Washall]

Well, earlier we talked to the folks that made 150,000 a year and they were saving up. They were almost there to buy it in cash. $400,000 house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they were in Arkansas. Yeah, I remember. Yeah, they were. Now they were. I don't know what they. How they were doing that they were living on that was even beyond.

[Jade Washall]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

They were living on crazy. But it absolutely works. So Chevy and Caitlin have become heroes for Finn, Nash and Townsend. They, those little babies, they're beautiful. Their lives have been changed and they don't even know it yet. Pretty crazy. And they go through a tragedy to put to boot in the middle of the thing. So just absolutely amazing. Yeah. It's never a straight line, but there's a line.

[Jade Washall]

There's a line.

[Dave Ramsey]

Way to go, you guys

[Caller]

Sam.

[Jade Washall]

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that. And I tell them, sure you can. It's a short term sacrifice for a long term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for for it. Never having the long term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes it'll build you a step by step plan that's tailored to your money situation. And every day it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today. Short term sacrifice, Long term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Our Scripture of the day Nahum 1:7 the Lord. The Lord is good, a refuge in times of trouble. He cares for those who trust in Him. Simon Sinek said, it is a luxury to put our interests first. It is an honor to put the interests of others before our own. Buying or selling your home is a big deal, and with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what to do next. We're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a little below 400,000 last month, which is typical for this time of year. Mortgage rates are sitting at about 5.44 in January, down from 6.27 last January. Giving buyers some breathing room. We're starting to see some movement in the market. To learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on the podcast or YouTube. Joshua's in Los Angeles. Hey Joshua, how you Are you?

[Caller]

Hey Dave, I'm doing good. I'm doing good. It has been, let me say, about two or three years since I've been trying to get on the radio and I am truly glad that it is you and Jade. Obviously everybody else on the show is amazing, but I needed some tough love from Dave today, so I've made some mistakes financially. I let's see, at the beginning of 2025, I purchased a Toyota Corolla I purchased it out. I went to a credit union, and the total amount was about 30,000. And then at the end of this previous year, I got a truck. I know. Not smart. So I'm in a hole that I am regretting digging. And so I've been trying to dig myself out, but I keep on running into roadblocks.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you keep jumping from hole to hole as part of it, Right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what do you owe on the truck?

[Caller]

So I owe on the truck. 46.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, boy.

[Caller]

And then I. I have a personal loan for 8,000. And then I have probably about a couple thousand worth of credit cards. And then I want to pursue higher education. And that's going to cost about 40,000. Grand Canyon University for pursuing. What is it called? My LPC license.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's off the table. You get this mess cleaned up, you got a $40,000 problem. I don't need to create another one.

[Caller]

Exactly. Yeah, I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, okay, so what do you make?

[Caller]

So I make only about 56 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

I've been very. I've been working very diligently to find more income. And so I have an opportunity to work for a previous employer and make about an extra, like 12 to 15 extra a year.

[Jade Washall]

Good.

[Caller]

And so I'm thinking, like, I'm thinking that that would solve this issue of.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that. Get rid of the truck. What's the truck worth?

[Caller]

The truck is worth 42.

[Jade Washall]

Well, that's not.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you need four. You need $4,000 and you can sell the truck.

[Caller]

Right, Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, let's get rid of that thing.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah. How quickly could you save up the difference? 4,000 bucks?

[Caller]

I would.

I'd probably say, like, realistically, if I just make the minimum payments on my credit cards, it'd probably be like, maybe like three months.

[Jade Washall]

No, I want you going hard in the paint, working every hour. You get to do this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Take the new job, get the income up, and you need to get rid of this truck in a month or so.

[Jade Washall]

Where do you live? What's your living situation?

[Caller]

I currently live with my parents.

[Jade Washall]

Okay, you live. So you don't even have rent to pay?

[Caller]

No, I don't.

[Jade Washall]

Then this should go into. What if you. If all this. All you have is minimum payments, you have no rent. Yeah. If you make your $4,000 from your current job and you go out and side hustle and kill it, that'd be my.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you spending money on?

[Jade Washall]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Car, gas, insurance, credit card minimums.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So yesterday. Let's get rid of this truck.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

The thing is, you got to decide. You got to decide if this truck is really as stupid as we have. And once you decide that, because I'm. I'm really. If I'm in your shoes, I'm really pissed about this truck.

[Jade Washall]

Truck.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it's standing between you and a good future. And so that means you got. That means you got to bust it and get rid of the stupid thing as fast as possible. It's a curse. It's not a blessing.

[Caller]

Okay. And do you have any recommendations on how to, like, obviously, like, private cell. Yes. And then on top of that, I've tried. Or no, never mind. That's a credit union. But I tried purchasing it, purchasing it outright, but that didn't. Didn't work.

[Jade Washall]

What do you mean?

[Caller]

Meaning I was good. I went from. I was going to go from a lease to a purchase.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, it's a lease.

[Caller]

It's a lease.

[Jade Washall]

What's the payoff amount?

[Dave Ramsey]

42 or 46. Yeah, 46 is worth. 40.

[Caller]

Sorry, 46.

[Jade Washall]

So you're saying that you can't buy it out and then turn around and sell the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you can. Okay. And so what you have to do is find someone, a dealer or a person that will write you a check for 42. You have to add four to that check and buy out the lease. They hand you the title, you hand the buyer the title, and that's how the process goes down. You may need some help with that with a friend that's around car dealers, but, you know, with how to actually mechanically do the transaction in Los Angeles, California. But that's how the method works. You have to have all the money to pay off the lease to get the title, and then they hand you the title, and you hand the title. Meantime, the car, the new buyer, is driving it off a bill of sale, and that's how all transactions work. But there's a few little nuances to how they'll go down in different states and how the process works. And I'm not positive about California, but that's a concept that you're working off of. Josh. Well, the big deal is you've got to decide. This thing has to go. Yes, Suzanne is in Albany, Georgia. Hey, Suzanne. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi.

I'm so glad I got through to y'. All.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm glad you did, too.

[Caller]

How are y' all doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve.

[Caller]

Well, we have a question. My husband and I are both retired school teachers. We bring in about. Net about $9,500 a month between our Pensions, Social Security and we both have part time jobs.

[Jade Washall]

Great.

[Caller]

Our house is paid for. It's worth about 425,000.

[Jade Washall]

Great.

[Caller]

We have about 300,000 in 401ks and $15,000 in our Roth. Now this is the question. We have a car that we still owe $10,000 on. And we also have a lot that we bought about three years ago for us to build our retirement home on, which we want to pay cash for because we want to save. Sell the current house we're in.

[Jade Washall]

All right.

[Caller]

We build this house and we owe. It's about $60,000 on that lot we have. And so we have that. That's our only debt. It's 60,000 on the lot. We're paying 7.25% interest. And then the car, which is about three and a quarter percent interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

When are you going to build the. When are you going to build the retirement home?

[Caller]

We want to start maybe this fall.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. The lot debt will roll up into the construction loan because the construction loan won't take a second mortgage position. They're going to want a first mortgage position. So your construction loan is going to be plus the lot debt. Yes. So that's going away and going to roll up into your new mortgage.

[Caller]

Okay. Well, our question was. So in other words, I see what you're saying, but this is what we were wondering. Should we take out the, you know, we can take out, I want to leave at least five in that Roth, but could we take out 10,000 in the Roth? We wouldn't pay any penalties. Pay off the car with that. And then my husband was thinking about taking the $60,000 out of his 401. You've got tax.

[Jade Washall]

You can pay it off so fast with just your income.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're making $9,000 a month. Pay off the stinking car.

[Caller]

That was the question.

[Jade Washall]

Yeah, that's the answer.

[Caller]

That was my third.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Pay off the car and then roll the, roll the other thing up into the mortgage. Up into the thing. And then when house, your sales, it pays off the retirement house, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you'll be debt free with never having touched. Never having touched your retirement. And that's exactly what I would do. Yeah.

[Jade Washall]

Just be careful not to overspend on the retirement house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Keep that down under the value of yours. That puts us. How are the Ramsey show in the books? We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace. Christ Jesus.