How Do I Get My Boyfriend To Step Up and Make More Money?

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show

Episode: How Do I Get My Boyfriend To Step Up and Make More Money?
Date: February 18, 2026
Hosts: Ken Coleman & George Campbell
Network: Ramsey Solutions

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Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show focuses on callers facing a wide range of financial challenges—from credit card and student loan debt to relationship dynamics impacting money and career. The hosts offer actionable advice rooted in the Ramsey Baby Steps and no-nonsense accountability, often weaving in humor and tough love. Key themes include prioritizing urgent needs, increasing income, maintaining financial boundaries in relationships, and striking a balance between long-term goals and immediate responsibilities.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Caller: Ashley – "How Do I Get My Boyfriend To Step Up and Make More Money?"

Timestamps: 10:28–19:52

Context

• Ashley and her boyfriend just had a baby. Ashley earns $145k/year in tech, boyfriend is a car salesman who's not making sales.
• Ashley pays all the bills. Rent increased to $3,000/month after her boyfriend moved in; daycare also costs $3,000/month.
• Concern: How to afford expenses and prompt boyfriend to contribute.

Main Insights and Advice

• Ken and George quickly focus on Ashley’s financial situation independent of her boyfriend. Ken hammers the point that her boyfriend is "dead weight," and she should make plans assuming he won't change. He advocates for dumping him if he's not willing or able to step up:

  "He shouldn't be your boyfriend...He's dead weight right now." (Ken, 14:18)

• George reframes the boyfriend's lack of contribution:

  "It sounds like he's about to be a stay-at-home dad if he doesn't come up with income quick. Would you even trust him with that role?" (George, 12:59)

• Hosts push Ashley to reduce expenses via roommates, alternative childcare, and aggressive payoff of car debt:
  • Roommates could cut rent significantly.
  • Alternative to institutional daycare: consider local retired grandmothers or shared nanny arrangements to reduce childcare costs.

  "We're trying to give you real solutions here…between a roommate and an awesome grandmother in your community, that's slashing your cost in half." (Ken, 17:56)

• General message on relationships and money:
  • Don’t ignore your gut on trust.
  • Design your financial plan to thrive independently.

Notable Quotes

• "Rule number one: Don't have a baby with someone you wouldn't trust to watch your child." – George (13:08)
• "You have to craft a plan forward with or without him, and right now it's without him." – George (18:51)

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2. Caller: Nancy – Filing Bankruptcy?

Timestamps: 00:40–09:01

• Nancy is considering bankruptcy due to $25,000 in credit card debt; separated from husband, special needs child at home, income fluctuates ($1,000–$3,000/month).
• George advises never to file bankruptcy for that amount, especially if she intends to get a home loan to flip houses in the future.
• Prioritize the Four Walls: food, utilities, housing, transportation before any credit cards.
• Increasing income is urgent—find more contracts, consider other brokers, or look for a remote job with stability.
• Community is key: Seek local support (church, friends) for childcare or assistance.

"It's okay for you to raise your hand and say, I need some more help." – Ken (07:45)

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3. Caller: Chelsea – Paying Off Debt Before 0% Balance Expires

Timestamps: 21:21–29:56

• Chelsea has $6,000 on a 0% balance transfer card until October, and $4,100/month income.
• Hosts recommend dividing the debt by months left, targeting $1,000/month to avoid a 29% APR penalty.
• Emphasize strict budgeting, side hustles, and cutting non-essential spending (i.e., dining out).
• Always get on a zero-dollar month for nonessentials; gamify the process.
• Effort plus Sacrifice is the formula for success.

"If you just do those two things, you will be successful." – George (28:31)

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4. Caller: Sarah – Husband's Income & Mindset Issues

Timestamps: 53:06–62:55

• Husband is about to be laid off from ministry job earning $45k; family has high debt (student loans, mortgage, parent PLUS loan).
• Sarah wants to avoid daycare for their young children, is launching her own business, but hasn't made income.
• Ken is blunt: They need more urgency and effort from both spouses— "letting life happen" is not a plan; they should consider all income options, potentially relocate if it helps with family support and childcare.
• George calculates that only with a significant income jump (to $100k combined or more) will they pay off debt in a reasonable timeframe.
• Emphasizes cooperation, sacrifice, and urgency in times of financial distress.

"You're letting life happen to you instead of happen[ing] to life." – Ken (60:06)

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5. Caller: Jessica – Single Mom, Domestic Violence Survival, & Next Steps

Timestamps: 43:20–51:14

• Jessica is newly single, left a domestic violence situation, has $20k debt (mostly student loans), relying on a two-year housing assistance program.
• Considers returning to school for dental hygiene (~$100k tuition at a trade school vs. ~$15k at community college).
• Ken & George urge immediate focus on employment, not more school or debt:
  • Any available income (cleaning houses, retail, etc.)
  • Keep four walls secure, focus on childcare within limited means, only return to school when stable.
• Jessica is resourceful and resilient—coaches encourage her to remember her capability.

"This is something that's doable. It's not demeaning. It's safe. Go start knocking on doors. Talk to everybody that'll listen." – Ken (51:03)

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6. Baby Steps Millionaire Feature: Eric from Sioux Falls

Timestamps: 106:47–115:30

• Eric, 44, and wife now have net worth of $1 million (house, 401k, IRAs, $150k cash).
• Started with $50k income, now up to $200k; both bachelor degrees.
• No wild spending—Levis, Honda/Toyota vehicles, straightforward lifestyle.
• Inherited $90k, would have rather not needed it.
• Their method: "Just start. Live off a budget. Pay yourself first. Use the baby steps."
• Both hosts highlight how ordinary, steady habits—versus drastic gambles or luck—lead to financial success.

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Other Notable Segments

Debt Confessions & Accountability

• Callers routinely expose how mindset or emotional issues (guilt, fear) sabotage financial progress—hosts dissect, reassure, and sometimes sternly challenge these beliefs.
• Example: John (65:16–74:15) is working three jobs but can't seem to get ahead. The issue is not income, but failure to budget—every dollar needs a "job" before it hits an account.

Realistic Budgeting and Expense Cuts

• Repeated emphasis on following a real, tracked budget—not just planning for one and ignoring it.
• Lifestyle creep, not income, is often the main barrier.

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Notable Quotes

• "Rule number one: Don't have a baby with someone you wouldn't trust to watch your child."
  — George (13:08)

• "You're letting life happen to you instead of happen[ing] to life."
  — Ken (60:06)

• "Effort plus sacrifice is what I think is a really powerful combo."
  — Ken (28:08)

• "This is not a forever season."
  — George to Nancy (06:49)

• "What we focus on, our brain then goes and takes pictures of it... focus on the right stuff and watch good stuff happen."
  — Ken (104:00–104:26, on the power of focus)

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Top Takeaways

Actionable Ramsey Principles from this Episode:

• Do not file bankruptcy for manageable personal debts.
• Prioritize urgent needs ("four walls")—food, housing, utilities, transport—before paying lenders.
• Increase income creatively: side hustles, second jobs, leveraging skills for remote or flexible work.
• If a partner or spouse is dead weight financially and relationally, do not build your plan around them.
• Budget fiercely; challenge every expense, and track spending daily.
• Avoid lifestyle creep; focus on needs vs. wants, especially in tight seasons.
• Use the "debt snowball" method for paying off debts—smallest to largest for momentum.
• Take responsibility for your financial mess, no matter how you got there.
• Emphasize support networks and community, especially for single parents in crisis.

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Resources Mentioned

• EveryDollar App (for budgeting and paycheck planning)
• SmartVestor Pros (advisors)
• Ramsey Baby Steps Framework
• Debt payoff calculators and budgeting tools at ramseysolutions.com

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This episode balances empathy and urgency—and delivers clear, memorable financial guidance for listeners at all stages of their money journey.

Transcript

[Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Ken Coleman]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. The phone number, jump in to Triple 882-55-5225, alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman, exc with you, and we're ready to take your calls. Nancy gets us started off in Jackson, Mississippi. Nancy, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm considering filing bankruptcy, and I'm not sure if that's the right move for me right now.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, tell us why you're considering it.

[Caller]

My husband, who I've been separated from for about two years, he's going to be filing and I have 25,000 in credit card debt.

[Ken Coleman]

You mean filing for divorce? Is that what you're talking about?

[Caller]

No, for bankruptcy.

[Ken Coleman]

He's the one that wants to file for bankruptcy for himself.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, gotcha. Okay, keep going.

[Caller]

Since we're separated, I'm taking care of all the bills. And so the credit card bills have been a pretty good amount each month. So I'm considering it to take that load off. But in the future, I'd like to be able to still get home loans. I used to flip houses. I'd like to get back into that, but I don't know how much a bankruptcy will hurt me.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, wow.

[Caller]

I should just do.

Okay.

[George Campbell]

I mean, would you loan you money after going through a bankruptcy?

[Caller]

Probably not.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. So there's a better way out of this, Nancy. And I know it feels like the walls are coming in right now. You've got a lot of life happening. And so step one is to look at some facts. So fact number one, is your name on all of these credit cards?

[Caller]

The 25k My name is on that is separate, that he's going to file for good.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so is that your total debt or is there other debts as well?

[Caller]

That's my only debt for me personally.

[George Campbell]

Okay, great. And what is your income?

[Caller]

It really varies and fluctuates. I go from anywhere 1,000amonth to 3,000amonth.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you do?

[Caller]

I'm a transaction coordinator for a real estate company. And I am a photographer.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have any control over that variation from one to three a month? In other words, more effort or just being more available? Do you have any control over that?

[Caller]

I don't. It depends. I work basically per contract, and I never know how many contracts I'm going to get each month.

[Ken Coleman]

And is there an exclusivity. I just don't understand that role in that industry. Well, so forgive me if that's a silly question, but is there any exclusivity to where you couldn't do that for another broker or something like that in order to get more contracts and more money?

[Caller]

I'm not really sure. I've been loyal to this company because they're promising in a few months that I'll be moved to a full time salary position.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

But it's not guaranteed. It's based on his ebb and flow of his company.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. And I appreciate loyalty, love loyalty, don't want to dismiss loyalty. But if there's no exclusivity and it's not a conflict of interest is the meat of my question, then in other words, an ethic, then you could still work for them and still step into this full time role if it materializes. But you could also start getting more contracts and thus more money. And I'm jumping in here. George is going to pick back up. But I'm trying to address the income issue. And so you need to look into that by the end of this week at the latest. You're finding out the answer to my question. Do you still understand my question?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Because that would theoretically be maybe the quickest way or the best way to get more income. Am I tracking George?

[George Campbell]

Yeah. And if not, I'm seeing here pick.

[Ken Coleman]

Up a job because of what George is about to tell you. So Nancy, like right now is when we need to increase our income and I mean urgently. And George, why, What does she do with this increased income?

[George Campbell]

Well, if you think about it this way, Nancy, two grand a month towards your credit card, that's done in a year.

[Announcer]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So now you're going. Sweet. Must be nice to have two grand extra on top of your bills. It is nice. And that's where if you made $4,000 consistently and your bills were 2,000, well, now we have a fighting chance to get out of this. So the next question is, why are you covering all of the bills for the household?

[Caller]

My husband's currently unemployed.

[George Campbell]

And why is that?

[Caller]

Well, he's been using drugs for the last four years and so we've been separated for the last two years.

[George Campbell]

Is he. And he's still living at the house?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

He's not living at the house?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so what bills are you responsible for? For him?

[Caller]

For him?

None. Just the one. Just. I just pay the mortgage, the all the utilities and credit card.

[Ken Coleman]

So you've essentially been on your own financially for how long?

[Caller]

100% since May. We've separated multiple times, so.

[George Campbell]

So this time I'm good.

[Caller]

We don't know yet, but I'm leaning that way. Without a miracle from God.

[George Campbell]

Do you have any kids?

[Caller]

I have two, three and a four year old.

[George Campbell]

And they're at your house?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

And the four year old is special needs, which is my reluctance to take on more hours.

[Ken Coleman]

I totally understand. Didn't know that. But what we're trying to help you understand is you don't need bankruptcy.

[George Campbell]

I would rather see these cars go to collections and you settle them later than you go through a bankruptcy. It will do less damage to your financial future. So you, what you need to focus on now.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Is your four walls, Nancy. That means you put food on the table, you're going to cover all your utility bills, the mortgage. All of that comes first before you pay the credit card company a single dime. And if you can't pay them that month because you had to put food on the table, I don't care about the credit card companies hunting you down, being upset, calling you, whatever, they're going to threaten to sue you. It's going to go to collections. If that's what it takes in the season, that's what it takes. But the bankruptcy is going to cost you money, money that you don't have right now.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So it's actually cheaper and more financially wise to choose the other. You know, this is a rock and a hard place. And so we're just going to choose the rock right now, which is the credit card debt. So stick with it. Make the minimum payments if you can, make extra when and if you can. And soon you're going to be out of this. This is not a forever season. Right?

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

Do the children have childcare while you're at work? How does that work for you guys?

[Caller]

I work remote, so I take care of them all the time.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So what might be helpful is to find a full time remote role that is sooner. And you might need to talk to your, to your boss and say, hey, listen, I'm going through one of the hardest seasons of my life. I need some stability right now with my income. I can't risk having $1000 a month and therefore I need to go find XYZ job now. They might fast track it and go, hey, you know what, we'll start you full time now if you can handle it. But you don't have the option of just waiting around hoping for this job to materialize.

[Ken Coleman]

And Nancy, while you're Waiting on that miracle I'm also going to throw out there. You got to get some community. If you don't have community, go get involved in a church. It's not the worst thing in the world. And you got to get some people to come around you and help out with the childcare for a season. This marriage is completely up in the air. We totally understand. But you have got while praying for a miracle, hoping for a miracle. You've got to act as though you're divorced in the sense of taking care of you and the kiddos. And you've been doing that, by the way, and you're amazing. But it's okay for you to raise your hand and say, I need some more help. And. And so we just hit you with a lot, but you're going to be okay. And bankruptcy is not the plan for you. I think George gave you really tactical advice, and we're rooting for you and we're very, very sorry that you've been put in this very difficult.

[Announcer]

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Ashley in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Ashley, how can we help? Hi there.

[Caller]

So nice to talk to you all. I'm so excited. So, first off, and most importantly, my boyfriend and I just had a baby. He's 11 weeks old right now. Boyfriend is a car salesman and has not been making sales. So I have been paying all of our bills and I can barely cover. I can just cover our bills now and we've been doing okay. But when I need to go back to work in just about a month. We're sending the baby to daycare. And in the area we live in, daycare can be up to $3,000 a month and there's no way I can afford it anymore. So with my boyfriend not making any sales and we don't know when and if he's going to start making sales, I'm really struggling to figure out how we're going to make it.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

A lot here. So. Yes, let's talk about your income first. Just because you're not married and I know your boyfriend is the father of the baby and I appreciate all that. We'll get to him in a moment. I got thoughts on that whole situation. Boy, do I have some thoughts, George, but what, what's going on with you and your ability to make more money? What's happening there? I understand the. I understand the outrageous cost of childcare, believe me. But what has changed? Because the way you kind of laid that out, I'd like to know what's behind all this.

[Caller]

So I make. So I make $145,000 a year. I work in tech.

[Ken Coleman]

Fantastic.

[Caller]

Yeah.

And I live in the city is pretty expensive and it's a very long story behind this that I don't want to get into. But basically I live in my dad's house. And when my boyfriend moved in, actually just like pretty recently, my dad increased the rent of this house. So it's now $3,000 a month, which isn't astronomical, but with all the bills.

[Ken Coleman]

And what was it prior to the.

[Caller]

It was 2,200 part.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so you had an $800 increase there. What's your debt situation?

[Caller]

I stupidly have a car that I still owe about $15,000 on it, but that's it. No credit card debt or school loans or anything else.

[Ken Coleman]

So, George, a quick analysis. She's making good income. Very good income.

[George Campbell]

Your income is great. It sounds like he's about to be a stay at home dad if he doesn't come up with income quick. That's exactly. Would you even trust him with that role?

[Caller]

That is the problem. I wouldn't necessarily trust him. And we've been having a lot of relationship issues.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Rule number one, don't have a baby with someone you wouldn't trust to watch your child.

[Caller]

Yeah, right. It was, it was not. We did not plan it this way.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, well, okay, so much, so much, so much there. And okay. I'm not going to dive into that lane. Although I get it. And to that point, he shouldn't be your boyfriend. He, because of that moment, is the father of this child, but you don't trust him to actually be the father of the child. Let's just be really, really gut level honest. You should dump this guy really soon. Multiple reasons why. And I'll, and I'll give it back to George and we'll start walking through some money stuff. But number one, you didn't want to have a relationship with the guy. Number two, you didn't want to have a kid with him. Number three, you don't trust him to actually watch your kid. Number four, he can't sell cars.

[George Campbell]

So he's dead weight right now.

[Ken Coleman]

This guy doesn't need to be in a relationship with you, and he certainly does not need to be in that house with you. So I would legitimately dump him for those four reasons. And by the way, you can quote me and he can go watch this segment on YouTube. And I'm not trying to be unkind to him. I just. He needs a wake up call of adulthood. And the wake up call is you going, buddy, as George said, you're dead weight. You're out. So he's done, done, gone. And maybe he wakes up, but we've got to make plans as though he's not going to wake up. Okay, there's my, there's your. You've got to make this decision in light of the money advice that we're going to give you. All right? George bringing you in here on 145,000, $15,000 worth of debt.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

You're called in saying that you don't have enough to cover the bills or it's getting tight. I want to challenge the expenses here because can you rent for $1,600 a month in your area?

[Caller]

So that, that is the another, like the complication that I would be a whole separate call that I kind of don't. I think we probably don't have time to get into.

[George Campbell]

You're a prisoner in this home, aren't you?

[Caller]

Basically, yes.

[George Campbell]

I had a feeling. Dad needs you to pay this money.

[Ken Coleman]

No, he actually does it. Well, it could get somebody else.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, it's not your problem. What's actually keeping you in this house?

[Caller]

It's such a long story.

[George Campbell]

You don't have to give us.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't have to give us a.

[George Campbell]

Long story, but twice if you're okay, Ashley, we just want to know.

[Caller]

I am fine.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

I'll try to say it in, in 20 seconds. So my dad bought the house a bunch of years ago. It's appreciated in value significantly. Like doubled in value. Like it's, it's a multimillion dollar house. He is in very poor health. He's actually in the hospital right now for the third time in the last two weeks. And he says if he sells the house he would incur a massive tax bill. And if we wait until he passes away, then we won't incur the tax bill.

[George Campbell]

You'll inherit it.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. With a step up in basis.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

That is true. That still doesn't mean that we can sit paying three grand a month forever.

[Ken Coleman]

So I wonder if you kick the deadbeat boyfriend out and get some roommates. That's George's go to.

[George Campbell]

I like that plan. Now you don't need to sell the car. I think you can pay it off aggressively. But you're bringing home what, eight or nine grand a month.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Have you got a budget?

[Caller]

I do, yeah. I'm pretty buttoned up about it.

[Ken Coleman]

So what's the car payment?

[Caller]

Car payment is 350. I'm currently paying 700 per month on it to knock out the principal.

[Ken Coleman]

So looking at these things here, trying to speed this up, George. I've got 3000 in rent. I've got 3000 in childcare, future daycare. I got 350 in a car payment. So we're right at 6500.

[George Campbell]

Immediately, you got 1500 left to pay for gas, food, insurance and a tiny bit of fun money.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Now that's not like amazing, but it's a good start. And it gets you to survive and thrive on your own. But the cardless.

[Ken Coleman]

But George, what's the quick fix on that? And I think we've already talked about it. I mean, she can make some moves.

[Announcer]

A roommate.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. If you can get this rent down, you're gonna free up. I mean, think about it. You split it with two people. Now you're talking three of you in there, you're paying a thousand bucks a month. If not more, you might charge them more than, you know, a thousand bucks for their spot.

[Ken Coleman]

And I'm gonna. I've given this advice a million times and people may be sick of it, but I think instead of the traditional institutional childcare, can you find a retired grandmother who's bored out of her mind and has got all the motherly instincts? We did this with our kids when my wife was working full time. And it's a fraction of the cost. If you're paying three grand in childcare, what if you paid 1,500 and I'm not telling you that's the number. But I'm just. We're trying to give you real solutions here. Between a roommate and a awesome grandmother in your community, would love to take care of your little guy, that's slashing your cost in half.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And even shared nanny situations, those exist in your neighborhood.

[Ken Coleman]

We break up or at least kick deadbeat out. I'm not telling you to break up with him at this point, although I would. But if we kick him out and then hopefully he wakes up, start selling something.

[George Campbell]

The sad part is we just have to assume that it's going to be status quo and he's not going to contribute. You have to craft a plan forward with or without him. And right now it's without him.

[Ken Coleman]

What did I leave out, George? What else would you do on that? Reducing cost. Now that you know what her margin.

[George Campbell]

Is, I mean, you're going to have to keep this job. You have, hopefully it's steady. And work on getting rid of all of the expenses in your life. The car is one of them, bringing down the rent. I can't, you know, solve the daycare problem instantly, but I think you at least have more options than you think. And even then, you got some room left over, which isn't a terrible thing. So I would use every dollar, craft a budget tonight and then go, what does the next six months look like? What does the next year or two look like? And hopefully this is just a season and you'll be out of it.

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Chelsea in Kansas City. Chelsea, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi. I needed just some kind of input. I've been able to successfully pay down since July, over 12,000 in debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Way to go.

[Caller]

I've been working super hard at it.

[Ken Coleman]

That's awesome.

[Caller]

But I have. So I did like a credit card balance transfer that had no interest. So I have no interest until October. And so I still have 6,000 remaining on that. Do you guys have any input on how I can pay down the rest of that 6,000 by October? Because what I've been doing is $100 each week and any extra leftover from my paychecks, I take like either half or most of it towards that credit card to get it as low as possible. So that way I can consolidate as much debt as possible.

[Ken Coleman]

So what has that been averaging out to?

[Caller]

Probably around 450 to 500amonth.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And you said you want to know how can you pay the rest of the 6,000 off by October?

[Caller]

Yes, that's my. That's my goal at least to try and get to.

[George Campbell]

It should be more than a goal. It should be, this is on fire. Because what's going to happen is they're going to back charge you 29% APR, which is exactly why they offer these 0% cards. They're betting against you, Chelsea. They're hoping that you don't pay it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you know, I'd go old school. This is the way I'm wired. So this may not work for you. Okay. But the first thing that came to my mind is I would take how many months that is. So what is it, seven months from now or six?

[Caller]

I think six now.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So that means a month.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly what I do. Old school division. And that's what it's going to take. But your question was how? But we got to first get with the what. And so it's a minimum of, you know, I mean, that's your average. A thousand bucks a month. So how do I make an additional thousand bucks a month is essentially the question I would then be asking. And I think that's doable.

[George Campbell]

How much do you make in a month?

[Caller]

I bring home 4,100amonth.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I do insurance.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, George is the budget king here. And so he. If anybody could crunch it and try to find some of it, he could, and I'll give it to him. But I would say, George, I think she also needs to look at a second job selling everything kind of the basic Stuff we've said for decades.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And I just think, Chelsea, that's your number. And I think if you circle $1,000 and put it on your mirror, your refrigerator, put it all over the house, and it becomes so much a focus for you, visceral, you will make that additional thousand bucks a month. And I think if you gamify it, I think it's something you'll look back on 30 years from now and go, that was one of the most inspiring things I ever did. That's my two cents.

[George Campbell]

This. Are you doing any investing right now, Chelsea?

[Caller]

No, not now. I was previously had Bitcoin, and I had profited $1,500. So I went ahead and withdrew that just at the highest peak that it had in October.

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[Caller]

You put that on the card and put that on his credit card.

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Do you have anything else in savings?

[Caller]

Technically, I don't have a savings, but I always keep a month and a half worth of my rent in a separate checking account. So my rent only goes in and out of that. I have my paycheck split.

[George Campbell]

Okay, and what are your total expenses to cover your rent, food, utilities, all of that?

[Caller]

Around 3200.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Hence it being pretty tight at the end of the month to throw money at this credit card. So that's where we need to figure out, hey, how much of this 3200 can we free up? And that might mean we are not eating out. We're going to get real intense about budgeting. Every single penny is going to be accounted for, and we're going to get a second job. All of that. I mean, you don't need a huge number to throw a thousand at the debt. You need, like, a few extra hundred dollars because you said you're able to throw 500 bucks a month right now, so you need an extra 500 on top of that.

[Ken Coleman]

There you go.

[George Campbell]

So that becomes the number, and so you can do the math and go, hey, if I get a job making 15 an hour, here's how many hours I need to work. If I can do whatever Uber eats, Instacart, doordash, whatever. The thing is, if I do it this many hours, here's how much I can reliably make. Yeah, and you can do anything for six months, especially as a young girl, you have time on your side and energy, Something Ken and I do not have.

[Ken Coleman]

Not true. Speak for yourself. You're very inactive and you have no gluten. So that's your problem.

[George Campbell]

This is about Chelsea.

[Ken Coleman]

I, on the other hand, I'M very active and I'm okay with gluten. I have plenty of energy. Thank you very much, George.

[George Campbell]

We're having fun.

[Caller]

I'm somewhat young. I probably sound younger than I am.

[George Campbell]

How old are you?

[Ken Coleman]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'll be 35.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, trust me, that's young. Go ahead, George.

[George Campbell]

I'm your elder.

[Ken Coleman]

Take the shot here.

[George Campbell]

No, I'm not gonna mention Ken's age on air.

[Ken Coleman]

You're pulling me into the low energy deal. I don't know about that, but can.

[George Campbell]

You do this for six months? That's what we're asking. Can you make this sacrifice to become.

[Ken Coleman]

Completely dead for extra bucks a month? That's the challenge. Can you do it?

[Caller]

I think so.

[George Campbell]

I need a little more confidence.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't like that answer. I don't like that answer.

[Caller]

I feel like I can. I definitely could be eating out less because that's been about four to five times a month. So I could cut that down to maybe once.

[George Campbell]

What if you went for a zero dollar month as far as spending on things that weren't absolutely necessary to survival? And I promise you eating out is not necessary to survival, as much as it can feel like it.

[Caller]

Yeah, I definitely, I definitely could do.

[George Campbell]

That and then do it, then try it the next month and then it becomes a game. It's addictive and you want to see how much money you can save. And then all of that money going towards the cred cards will validate the sacrifice. That's what you need right now. You need to see some progress. And you thought you saw progress with the 0% balance transfer. What really happened is you paid the credit card company 3 to 5% of the balance for the pleasure of delaying the interest. That's all it was.

[Caller]

Yeah, I've been doing that. Because my credit card payment was so high, I was able to basically eliminate the interest and actually make a dent in it.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Which is great. I'm happy that you're able to make more progress than you would have. But we need to take advantage of that right now and go, okay, we're actually going to attack debt harder because of this. Not get comfortable because the interest isn't racking up. Because I promise you behind the scenes it is. And when October 1st it's going to hit and that interest will charge you.

[Ken Coleman]

What'S the four to five times eating out a month. What do you think that adds up to?

[Caller]

Probably a couple hundred dollars.

[George Campbell]

Looks like we just found our debt payoff money.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[Caller]

I think so.

[George Campbell]

So your side hust Become not eating out.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. But I still want to see you. I still. I want to see you not just hold back activity. I want you to do something too. And that intensity combined with sacrifice. So effort plus sacrifice is what I think is a really powerful combo.

[George Campbell]

That's a good combo right there. That's a good formula for life. What, effort plus sacrifice?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

If you just do those two things, you will be successful.

[Ken Coleman]

I think, I think you're right. I think I didn't plan to, but that's, that's true.

[George Campbell]

It's.

[Ken Coleman]

It's actually true in any area of your life. Think about relationships. Put in the effort, guys, to be a good husband, sacrifice as much as you can, when you can. How you.

[George Campbell]

That looks like serving in a relationship.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a big win relationally, physically.

[George Campbell]

I mean, you know, on the pickleball.

[Ken Coleman]

Court, there's pickleball, there's the weight room. Two things that you would do well to introduce into your life.

[George Campbell]

I would not darken the door of a weight room, I'll tell you that.

[Announcer]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

What are the chances that I get you in the weight room in this 2026?

[George Campbell]

If we filmed it for content, I think we could do it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. As long as I've always had a vow to my wife and kids and close friends that I'm never going to post anything on social media where I'm working out. I think that is tacky. I don't like it. But if it's you and I'm holding the phone and watching you and encouraging you to get that five pound dumbbell.

[George Campbell]

Curled up on each side.

[Ken Coleman]

Each side, that would be. I think that's the content that America needs to see.

[George Campbell]

That's good. I much prefer a financial sacrifice and effort. I can do that all day long.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but see, that's my point. That to you is not a whole lot of effort.

[George Campbell]

You are.

[Ken Coleman]

You are naturally tight and frugal.

[George Campbell]

Tell my muscles you are.

[Ken Coleman]

You're tight there too. But that's your anxiety. That's a whole nother issue. All right, so can I get this on the record?

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I'll talk to your social media person. Yep. I'll talk to mine.

[George Campbell]

You will be my personal trainer for a day.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm just gonna be there to cheer you on and try to make it fun.

[George Campbell]

No, it's a competition.

[Ken Coleman]

America's gonna need some comments that they hear while you're in workout gear. Number one. Number two, doing workout moves.

[George Campbell]

I guess we gotta go shopping for workout gear now. Not sure I own that.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't have any workout gear.

[George Campbell]

I try not to because if I have it, I'll probably work out.

[Ken Coleman]

I thought I saw it on the. I thought I saw it on the Ramsay Cruz.

[George Campbell]

I. Yeah, I was in there. That was only to get to the sauna. You got to go through the gym.

[Ken Coleman]

Folks. Don't go anywhere. We got more coaching calls and George is going to do some push ups real quick, get his energy up.

[Announcer]

Most people just drift through life with their money. No plan, no budget, stuck on autopilot. But winning with money is intentional. That's why I love Fairwinds Credit Union. They've built tools for people who don't want gimmicks or games. Their Smart Bundle includes a high yield savings account to help your emergency fund grow. And their Spend Smart checking account won't nickel and dime you to death with fees like other banks. Plus, it comes with the Ramsey Be Weird debit card which says debt is normal beweird right on the front of it. It keeps you connected to your budget and every time you use it, it's a reminder you control your money, not the other way around. Fairwinds Credit Union is for people who are serious about taking control of their money. So if you're ready to stop drifting and start building wealth on purpose, open your Smart Bundle today at Fairwinds.org Ramsey that's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it? That's normal and it's broke. You don't have to live that way. Our Every Dollar Budget app helps you find extra money every month and builds you a personalized plan. In just 15 minutes, you're going to find thousands of dollars in hidden margin and that's going to feel like a raise. So don't live normal. Start every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Nick in Richmond, Virginia. Nick, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, I'm really just wondering, am I being a little bit too aggressive on my student loan debt repayment?

[Ken Coleman]

Are you starving? No, probably not, but give us the numbers.

[Caller]

So my wife and I have about 70,000 total in student loan debt.

[Announcer]

Okay.

[Caller]

Since March of 2025, I've made almost $25,000 in payments. And I guess I just worry, is that too much to be paying when I only have $1,000 emergency fund with a wife and a two year old?

[George Campbell]

Well, you've been doing this for a year now. How's it been going? You like the progress you've been making?

[Caller]

Yeah, I do like the progress. I'm almost done. I've almost completely paid off my bachelor's degree loans. So I really just have my master's degree loan and then my wife's bachelor's loan, which is. She might have the public service loan forgiveness as a teacher.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so let's, let's just back into this a little bit. So the $2,000 a month is essentially what you've been putting away, Correct? To the loans?

[Caller]

Correct. It was a lot less.

[Ken Coleman]

I understand first, but is that a zero based budget? Is that 2000? There's no other margin left. Is that essentially your margin? If we were to look at your budget.

[Caller]

No, there should be. There's probably much more.

[George Campbell]

You could put three or four towards the debts a month.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So there's your answer.

[George Campbell]

By definition, you're not being aggressive enough.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh boy. I had a feeling you were going to come off the top ropes on that one.

[George Campbell]

I just, I mean, I'm looking at these numbers and going, you're going to do this for three more years at this rate. Because I think, yes, that's too much sacrifice. Four years to just sludge through this debt is just too long based on your numbers and your income.

[Ken Coleman]

I agree. I was just trying to give him enough time to let it sink in that he's not doing that. That you have mar. So this is not reckless behavior. That's how you position the question.

[Announcer]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

Too aggressive. In other words, unwise. But to George's point, I would have.

[George Campbell]

Told you it was unwise to go $100,000 into student loan debt for a master's. But you know, we're on the other side of this. You guys are using the degrees, right? You have great careers.

[Caller]

Yeah, I make a well above average salary and she probably makes above average teacher salary.

[George Campbell]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

So let's. And George, I want to take him somewhere here now because we've answered your question. And then George has made a really strong challenge. But I want to get to the emotion behind your question. Okay. And I want George, George, actually, I'm going to ask him a question. And George, weigh in on this. Okay, so Nick, here's the deal. If something were to happen, a major emergency, George, let's have some fun. Pick a garden variety emergency. That would be more than $1,000 that would happen for someone like him. And he would have to come up with more than $1,000. He has.

[George Campbell]

It's summertime in Richmond, Virginia. Come July, H Vac goes out and they go, hey man, you got to replace this whole thing. It's going to be $6,000.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so, Nick, that's the scenario based on what we all know now. What would you do?

[Caller]

Probably just make minimum student loan payments and just pay the that payment up front.

[Ken Coleman]

Boom.

[George Campbell]

You take your thousand from the emergency fund and take your next paycheck and you go, all right, we're going to get this done, we're going to cash flow it, and then we're going to hit play on the baby steps once we're through this mess.

[Ken Coleman]

Now, the reason that I walked you through that, Nick, is because I want you to deal with the emotion that was behind that question that you asked us.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You have fear that you're being irresponsible and couldn't take care of wife and baby if something were to happen that would go above and beyond the thousand dollar emergency fund. True or false?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's accurate.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And so we just walk through it.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So it's important to not just call into a show like this and get our logical and philosophical and methodology answer which we gave you, but not address the emotions. Because if you don't address the emotion and do that exercise, it goes in one ear, out the other ear. That's what I find. Isn't that true, George? There's a powerful emotion here.

[George Campbell]

You don't want to just pay off debt more aggressively because George and Ken told you to. You want to do it because you truly want financial peace for your family, because you feel at risk with $70,000 owed to these student loan companies. And you want that income back in your life, don't you? How good is that going to feel when those payments don't leave anymore?

[Caller]

Yeah, it probably will feel very good. And I really, I started off with $360 payments and then these recent months have been more like $3,700.

[George Campbell]

Amazing.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, great job.

[George Campbell]

Keep it up.

[Ken Coleman]

So there it is. You know what to do now, so go do it. Let's go to Hannah in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hannah, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. So me and my husband, we inherited a. And we have another house that we have a mortgage on. So we're in the process of selling this house in the next couple months. And with paying off all of our debts and paying family back, we're going to have an extra like $100,000. And we're kind of torn between, I want to pay off the mortgage on our current house, just pay $100,000 to that. He wants to save the money and Invest it and just kind of make money from that point. So we're kind of at a crossroads of what to do with this extra money that we're going to have.

[George Campbell]

So at that point, you guys will be in baby steps. Four, five, six, no debt with a fully funded emergency fund and $100,000.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, what if you split the difference? What if you max out two Roth IRAs for the year and you put a bunch toward the mortgage and you enjoy some of it and give some of it. So I'll add to the list of things to do with this $100,000. Would that make everyone happy? You got 15k growing with compound growth for retirement. You put another 70 or 60 on the mortgage and that still leaves you with some fun money.

[Caller]

Yeah, because I mean, so really they're saying that we could sell it for like 280 to 290 and obviously we have to pay taxes and stuff. We're paying his grandpa back. It's his grandpa's house and he's just giving it to us. And then we took out a small loan to fix the house up because we just don't have, we have a 13 month old, so we don't have the time to fix it. So paying off all that, paying off my student loans, car, a couple credit cards, where, yeah, it's like an extra, I think like 125,000. So I said like, let's just, hey.

[George Campbell]

While we're at it, let's put, you know, 5 or 10,000 in a 529 plan for that little 13 month old.

[Caller]

Oh yeah, that was also part of like the discussion of like, we need to start doing something for him for school in the future. So we're in a very thankful, grateful situation financially. So I'm just like, okay, what will get the most bang out of our buck of hey, let's do this smartly and smartly and the best way possible.

[George Campbell]

So. Well, either way, everything you're doing is building wealth, whether that's paying down the mortgage, that's building equity, and it's a forced savings plan with a fixed rate that you're making, which is your mortgage interest rate. So it's not lost, the money's not locked up in the house forever. That's part of your net worth, that's part of your state. And so that's part of it. Now we're going to invest over here. We're going to get some compound growth going. You guys are young, right?

[Caller]

I am 30, I'll be 31 in a few weeks. And he is 28. Yeah, 28.

[George Campbell]

So think about that. If you guys are in your early 30s with a paid for house, are you going to be okay in retirement?

[Caller]

Yeah, I am. I have almost 100,000 and he has like 120,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, that's great.

[George Campbell]

So lay out the numbers. Your income, 15% or more. Once the house is paid off, invested, you guys will have millions and millions of dollars well before you even retire. And so I'm not concerned about building wealth necessarily. I just think we need to split the difference to enjoy life now and build wealth for the future. And so I think splitting the difference will make everyone a little bit upset and that might be the solution.

[Ken Coleman]

George, you need your own judge show where they come to you with one idea and you say, I'll tell you what, I see your idea. I'm going to raise you five different ideas and everybody's so happy.

[George Campbell]

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us. 888 825. 5225 is the phone number. Jessica is up in Seattle, Washington. Jessica, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

So I am a newly single mom. I just left a domestic violence situation and I'm a mom of two. So I'm kind of trying to figure out what should I prioritize first?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, first of all, we're so sorry you've been through this and we're glad that you're safe. I hope you're safe.

[Caller]

Yes, yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great.

[George Campbell]

What does life look like now for you, you guys, you and the kids?

[Caller]

So currently we are in a shelter and I am going to get assistance with housing assistance. So I'm looking for a rental right now, but how. That looks like it's a two year program. So every six months they start with 100% covering rental up to just independent. So 175, 50 and 25. So right now I'm kind of unemployed. I only have the thousand dollar savings. Trying to figure out what to do now. I'm looking into going back to school.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have any debt?

[Caller]

20,000.

[Ken Coleman]

What is that comprised of?

[Caller]

Personal loans, credit cards. But a big chunk of it is probably about 15,000 is in student debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, and what kind of schooling are you considering?

[Caller]

So I'm, I'm trying to maximize my time with housing assistance. So I'm looking into going to school for a dental hygienist.

[Ken Coleman]

How long of a program is that?

[Caller]

If I go to a trade school, that would be about two years.

[Ken Coleman]

And how much would that cost?

[Caller]

100,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. That's not an option. So is there a cheaper option to get into dental hygienist work? I'm guessing not. But you were about ready to say something else and I cut you off.

[Caller]

Yeah, I've been exploring like community, community college. There is a program but I would have to do because I have my associates. So that would. I would just have to take some science classes and that would be about a year and a half.

[Ken Coleman]

And what's the cost on that?

[Caller]

That one is about 15,000, but I would have to do a year and a half of prerequisites and then the two year program.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so three years 15,000 or two years 100,000.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I just want to make sure that we put this out here. Let's take the two years, 100,000 off the table. Okay. Because. And let's also press pause on this idea of the $15,000 plan. That's doable, but that to me is a pause and we get to that later. We need to get ourselves employed, get ourselves out of the government housing and the assistance and get rid of all this debt. And George is going to walk through the baby steps. But I want to talk, I just want to cut off this idea of I need to go to school right now while I'm in this shelter situation. No, what you need to do is get employed. If they'll allow that. Do they allow that? If you were to get full time employment, would they kick you out?

[Caller]

I believe not. It's. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. So all I'm trying to do is George is going to walk you through the get out of debt and get stable financially. But I really want you to hear me on this. School is down the road and that option is still going to be there. But the $15,000 option I like. All right. Why in the world I'd rather spend a little bit more time and way less money on that. And so that's done. We're not going to touch that right now. You have bigger emergencies, George.

[George Campbell]

So, Jessica, you've got thousand dollars starter emergency fund. You do have a bunch of debt to clean up. So to Ken's point, if you could work full time right now and clean up the debt, get a fully funded emergency fund now, it's going to be a whole lot easier to cash flow any program that you go through, correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

What do you do for child care if you're working full time?

[Caller]

My. My children go to school.

[George Campbell]

Oh, great. Okay. So they're taken care of during the day. You can go work. Do you have reliable transportation?

[Caller]

I do, yes.

[George Campbell]

Fantastic. Okay. You are ahead of the curve in a lot of ways. That's awesome. So you said. What do I prioritize? Number one is your own health and safety and your kids health and safety. We've got that covered, yes. Number two, we're going to protect our four walls. That's our housing, food, utilities, transportation. You have housing covered. Can you pay for all of the rest? Currently.

[Caller]

I'm going to be. No, I'm going to be honest now.

[George Campbell]

So we need income ASAP in order to just. Even with housing covered, which is a huge blessing, we still have other needs.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And so we're going to do whatever we can working right now, even if it's a part time retail job or hospitality job, to bring in some money to cover the gap while we look for something that's full time.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And that means you're gonna make minimum payments on the debts if you even can. And don't feel bad if you can't. If you can only cover your four walls and that's how you need to get by right now, then it's okay. I'd rather you not fall behind on payments. But your yourself and your house need to come first. You see where we're going here?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So it's kind of a priority list of me, kids, the house. Now we can focus on the other things. And that's only going to come through income, like Ken talked about. So have you looked at jobs in your area that would make sense for someone with your experience?

[Caller]

We live in a rural area, so there's not much locally. Probably the closest, about an hour. And for, I guess, support with my children, I'm pretty much the only one.

So I don't want to be too far out.

[George Campbell]

And you're stuck in this area because of their school. Is that what, what's going on?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And the housing?

[Caller]

Mm.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

But let's not. All right, let's just. Let's just brainstorm really quickly. Okay, so are there any kind of big box stores, like, big stores that are employing hourly workers?

[Caller]

Probably about 45 minutes away. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Is that too far, or could we make the 45 minutes work?

[Caller]

I can make it work. I think just for emergencies and, you know, anything.

[Ken Coleman]

But you know what? I'm telling you, mama bears like you have had to face far worse. And I believe in you.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm just telling you right now, you cannot have this mindset of, well, I live in a rural area, and there's not a lot here. Does it matter?

[George Campbell]

I have an ignorant question. What do other people who live around you do for work?

[Caller]

I don't.

[George Campbell]

I don't know.

[Caller]

There's a lot of big houses, though.

[Ken Coleman]

Start talking to people.

[George Campbell]

I would start up some conversations. Wait a second.

[Ken Coleman]

Wait, wait. I just got an idea. You said there's a lot of big houses.

[George Campbell]

Those houses need to be cleaned.

[Ken Coleman]

Those houses need to be cleaned. And I'll guarantee you, I know the type of people that live in those houses. They're usually unhappy with somebody that's working for them. And if you come in and do something better than them, then you are going to get the job.

[Caller]

Mmm.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's a great. I actually used to do that. I used to go, perfect.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what's great about that is you're minutes away from the kiddos. If something were to arise, you're in a safe environment.

[George Campbell]

Yep. And it's flexible.

[Ken Coleman]

It's flexible. They don't care. They just need it clean.

[George Campbell]

And you can charge 200 a cleaning, couldn't you?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

All right, let's go do five of those a week. That's one cleaning a day. It's a thousand bucks a week that changes your life.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

I would start knocking on some doors and just say, hey, listen, I live in the area. I do house cleaning. Here's my card. Go get them printed cheap at your local, you know, staples or whatever's nearby.

[Ken Coleman]

Jessica, this is not even in. In the category of would you do whatever it takes? We know you would. This is something that's doable. It's not demeaning. It's safe. Go start knocking on doors. Talk to everybody that'll listen.

[George Campbell]

You've worked too hard to get control of your money just to let strangers control your data. Think about it. Just about every time you sign up for a newsletter, grab a coupon code, or start a free trial, your personal info, like your name Email address, phone number, and more gets scooped up and sold by data brokers. Here's the deal. Freedom isn't only being debt free. It's also being free from companies cashing in on your data. And that's where delete me comes in. DeleteMe's privacy experts find your personal info on these shady data broker sites. They get it deleted and they keep it gone. It's like having a digital cleanup crew that scrubs your online life so you get way fewer of those spam calls, creepy texts, and scam emails that make you wonder how they even found you guys. The less noise in your digital life, the more time you have for what actually matters. Because when you protect your privacy, you protect your peace and your freedom. So go to JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey to get 20% off their annual plans and take back control. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, Sarah is up next in Phoenix. Sarah, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi there.

My husband is getting laid off in May. He's been applying for jobs for almost a year now, it feels like. And he works in the ministry, so that's why we've been. He's been applying for jobs for a while already because he's not making money for our family of five.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

He makes like $45,000 a year, and we've been able to stretch that for a while, but there's things that we haven't been able to have, like life insurance, can't pay off our debt. Just lots of things he just can't find. He can't find a job. And it's getting down to the wire. And so we're not sure whether we should move in with his parents and him get some sort of certification that will get him a job that pays well enough or also, that's the trouble, because anything that is hiring, it's like doll an hour, which is not enough. Or if he should join the military or if he should start up a business. We're just. We don't know where to go.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. I think we will look at some of those options, but I don't think that that's the primary thing we need to be looking at is my guess. I could be wrong. How much debt do you guys have?

[Caller]

A lot.

[Ken Coleman]

Lay that out for us. Lay that out for us. Go smallest to largest. George is writing it all down.

[Caller]

Okay. Smallest is his student loans. It's about 20,000. And then mine, I have 40,000 with federal loans. And then my mom. This is complicated. Had took out the parent plus loans. And it said that for another 40,000 and she expects me to pay her back for that eventually.

[George Campbell]

Did you agree to that upfront? When you say expects, was that just like a handshake agreement? Did you say, hey, I'll pay you back?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think I did when I was like 18. So like right when I started college, I didn't know I just signed up for it, you know, and okay, I guess.

[George Campbell]

What else?

[Caller]

I said, yeah, and then our house, our mortgage, and that's it.

[George Campbell]

How much is the mortgage, what's the balance and what's the payment?

[Caller]

It's 85,000 right now for the house. And then our payment's only like 8:30amonth.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well there's some good news in the mix. So we definitely need more income to pay off a hundred thousand dollars in consumer debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you work outside the home?

[Caller]

No, that's, I'm, I just started a nutritional, a holistic nutrition business. So I haven't really made any money from that yet.

[George Campbell]

But is it like a multi level marketing thing? No, this is on your own.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

How much, how much money do you think if he were to get a bump from the 45, 000, how much do you think he needs to make for you to feel like, okay, we've got enough income coming in.

[Caller]

Yeah, that was our goal is 55,000 total. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So another 10,000.

[Caller]

Yeah.

And it's, I mean it's probably not enough just that to start paying off debt really.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's probably right. And I, I'm asking this question. George will kind of walk you through here, but I, I definitely don't think he needs to start a business and I don't think you need to start your business. I think you need to press pause on your business and let's see if you can go get a 25, 30, $40,000 job. And then he is also, he's not waiting around to make some giant career move at this point because we're under the gun three months away or less to be laid off. So he's going out and doing whatever. We're going to do whatever for a season. And let's say both of you can make 40, that's 80,000 now based on the death you just what?

[Caller]

I just had a baby five months ago and I really don't want to put my babies in daycare.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, I get it. But that's again assuming that daycare is your only option.

[Caller]

We don't have any family around here.

[Ken Coleman]

Your husband's in ministry at a Church. I'll bet the church has got some old ladies in it, right?

[Caller]

Yeah. Well, not that. Could watch my kids.

[George Campbell]

Do they have a daycare as part of the church?

[Caller]

No, it's a small church.

[George Campbell]

What's keeping you guys in this area if he's laid off and you're not working?

[Caller]

Nothing, really. We love the area, but, I mean, we could move back to where his parents are and that would be helpful, but it's more expensive over there. The cost of living is.

[Ken Coleman]

I just. Here's what I'm hearing. Sarah, you called us for some advice and everything we throw at you feels like a long shot the way you're answering it. And I think that's a mindset issue.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You are in some deep water right now. Yes.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

How do people act when they're thrown into deep water?

[Caller]

Panic.

[Ken Coleman]

Urgent, at least. What do they do? They. They start flapping their arms and kicking their legs and they make some effort to get out of deep water. Yes or no?

[Caller]

Yeah. And my husband is like. He's.

[Ken Coleman]

He's applying, he's not working. There's a difference.

[Caller]

He has a second job. He does.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. I'm sorry, I didn't get that information. All I heard was, is he's in ministry. So I'm. I'm operating on information I've been given. Here's the point I'm trying to make. I think there needs to be some urgency, and I think living with our parents or his parents, I don't think that's the answer. I think it is. We need to get out of this. So I. Enough of my mindset stuff. I'm very concerned, though. If I can challenge you, I'm concerned about the mindset that I'm hearing. Now. Let's get to the numbers. George, based on that rundown of numbers, what realistically do they need to be doing?

[George Campbell]

Well, as it plays out, if you guys kept a 40 or $50,000 salary, you would probably be paying off this debt for the next decade. Yeah, that's just the math. That's not me. Just trying to be, you know, negative. Now, if you guys made a hundred thousand and you had 100,000 to pay off, probably could do it in 3ish years, maybe 4 max.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And so that's the math we're up against here, is you need to make double the income or more in order to pay off this debt in a reasonable amount of time. Because the baby steps exist. Those first three for aggressive, gazelle intensity. It takes most people about three years to get all the Way through that. From baby step one to three, completely out of debt, fully funded emergency fund. And I don't want to see you guys treading water all because, well, it's only the job he can get out here. Not much out here.

[Ken Coleman]

He's been trying, I get it, but just filling out applications and all that kind of stuff. And while the clock is ticking down, here's what I don't think you realize. And I'm coming at this much older and much more experienced, so this isn't like me looking down my nose at you. I'm just telling you the reality is. What you don't realize is that what the debt and the stress of him not having a better job and the shoe falling in May, that he loses his job, the debt payments, your baby is feeling all that anxiety and you don't even know it. And so what I'm preaching is a mindset of urgency and you're letting life happen to you instead of happen to life. So, yeah, if you got a move where you can get childcare for free, but it's a little bit more expensive, that's fine because you can make a lot more money. And if you got parents, grandparents to take care of the baby, great.

[George Campbell]

And you guys both have degrees. Did you graduate?

[Caller]

Yeah, he's got a degree in communication studies and I have a degree in fashion merchandising.

[George Campbell]

Perfect. So you both could get jobs in those fields. My gosh, if he gets out of ministry and does, I mean, there's a lot of jobs in communication. I've got one of those degrees. I made use of it.

[Ken Coleman]

You need to go get you a job at a fancy department store like Nordstrom or Bloomingdale's. Use that degree. You know, learn how to do makeup, something. You've got some real experience and skill set. True or false?

[Caller]

Yeah. In nutrition, not. Not really fashion merchandising.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you got a degree in it.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So if I'm hiring and I look at your resume, I go, oh, she's actually got a degree in fashion merchandising. She knows something.

[Ken Coleman]

You're just hitting every serve I hit to you, you just hit it back. So I don't know what to tell you, Sarah. We see this as actually a young couple who could come together and lock arms and double their income by just sheer effort.

[George Campbell]

And no matter what you choose, it's going to be hard Moving across the country and higher cost of living is going to be hard. Staying where you are is also going to be hard. And right now we got to choose the thing that has our best shot of getting us out of this muck and mire that we are in.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time we get calls about cars, used cars.

[George Campbell]

What's one thing you want folks to know?

[Announcer]

Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used. Unless you got a million dollars, we don't buy new cars. And if you're going to buy used, Number two, you want it to last. And that means regular proper maintenance.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's a big deal.

[George Campbell]

I know when Sam and I moved from south Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no brainer and they've been absolutely great.

[Announcer]

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[Caller]

Listen, Dave, I'm first to admit I'm.

[George Campbell]

Not into cars like you are.

[Ken Coleman]

But the thing about Christian Brothers is.

[George Campbell]

I feel just as confident going in there. They're not trying to to upsell me. I feel 100% confident that I'm going to get the service that I need.

[Announcer]

Hey, if you want your car to last and stay on track with the baby steps trust Christian brothers. Go to cbac.comramsey to find your local shop schedule service and get an exclusive Ramsey discount. 10% off your visit up to $250.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, that's cbac.comramseestore for detail.

[Ken Coleman]

If you're buying or selling a home, you know it's a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening. So we want to make sure that you understand the latest trends and, and don't get caught up in some type of trap or some emotional decision. You want to make a good, logical decision. And the medium home prices dipped a little bit below 400,000 last month. A lot of news headlines every day saying we're going to see a massive housing drop this year. Again, you know, we'll see. But make good decisions. And to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence no matter what the market is doing, go to ramseysolutions.com Market ramseysolutions.com Market John is up in Birmingham, Alabama. John, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, how are you doing? Well, so I'm about 65,000 in debt, 45,000 on a car that I leased for my wife, 5,000 on credit cards and about 15,000 on other unsecured loans and living paycheck to paycheck. I had, I do work three jobs but living paycheck to paycheck and don't have any savings, nothing for retirement. I'm 42 and just wondering if being able from this point to get to millionaire status and own our own home and we're renting as well.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you, what do you make in these three jobs combined?

[Caller]

So, so combined all together I'm bringing roughly between 105 and 125 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you do? What are the three jobs?

[Caller]

Well, I do a little security, granite fabrication and law enforcement.

[Ken Coleman]

Which one is the full time day job?

[Caller]

Granite fabrication, huh? And security is nighttime. Full time. What's the longest is a part time, huh.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Did you pick those up out of necessity to pay bills?

[Caller]

Yeah, I did. Well, I mean I've had, I've had two of the jobs for a long time and I just come back to the granite. I've been in it for several years, since around 99. And I come back to it just to kind of try to get straightened out and try to get some of this off of me. I've been listening to Dave's Baby Steps Millionaires and the other book he has out and it's just had me intrigued. And so I'm doing everything I can, but it seems like every time I get a step ahead I go two steps backwards with something. I've got three kids and a wife. So just.

[George Campbell]

Is your wife working outside the home?

[Caller]

No, my wife had two strokes back in 2019, which she is 100%. Well, she's good but she doesn't work. We, I just decided that. And she doesn't want to work either. As far as outside. She's a homemaker. She stays home and takes care of the house and the kids, what their needs.

[George Campbell]

So, so why did we need a fifty thousand dollar car?

[Caller]

Well, she's never had a new car and I guess I started listening to Dave a little too late and you guys a little too late late. But that's, that's what we got. We kind of got stuck with it after going there to get it. We was going to buy and we got stuck in the lease instead of buying and now it's, it's already over. So they allot 10,000 miles per year and we're already over the.

[George Campbell]

So you're paying extra on top of that. What's your lease payment?

[Caller]

Well, no. Well, I'm not paying extra. It's 628.96 per month. But no, I'm not. I'm not paying extra. But if we don't buy the car or if I don't jump into something different. And so let's see. I paid 8,500 cash down, and I've paid for it for a full year. So I paid over 16,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

That is brutal. Because you need to either have the full amount to pay it off in a lump sum, which you don't have, or a lease transfer, which if even that's allowed, it's going to be really difficult to find someone else to take it over.

[Announcer]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And so there's not a lot of good options with leases. That's why they're my least favorite way to drive a vehicle. And I hate car loans. But leases take the cake.

[Announcer]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So do you guys have money in savings at all?

[Caller]

We don't have any savings.

[George Campbell]

And no retirement whatsoever.

[Caller]

No retirement whatsoever.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, I can give you some good news. You ask, is it still possible for me to become a millionaire? Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[George Campbell]

You guys are done playing this game.

[Caller]

We're done. We're done. That's why I'm on the phone with you guys.

[Ken Coleman]

You know that you're working too hard to be broke.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

You're gonna pick up a fourth job just to keep up with another payment at this point. And so you guys are done. That means your wife is done too. She is ready to downgrade her lifestyle in order to have a financial future that's worth having.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, here's what it looks like. It looks like you working more. You're going to keep the three jobs, keep making 125k as we knock out the 65k that is your only goal for probably the next. Can you put like three or four grand a month towards these debts?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I just don't know the strategy to go to go with. But yeah, I can definitely.

[George Campbell]

You're just going to debt snowball. So the smallest balance. Probably want these little credit cards. That's your first one to go. You're going to make minimum payments on everything else. Make your normal lease payment. The unsecured loans make the minimum payments. And on that lowest balance, you're going to attack it with a vengeance.

[Announcer]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And if you can throw 3,600amonth at this thing, it's done in 18 months.

[Caller]

That's dust the car and all.

[George Campbell]

That's everything. I mean, 60. You said 65,000 total, so just. That's correct napkin math. Here's what, 65,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's what's off for me, George and John. John just told us, George, that he can't seem to get ahead. Something always happens. Then you ask him if he could throw 3,000 plus a month away, and he instantly says yes. So that tells me something's off. What's off?

[Caller]

Well, I guess. I guess this is what's off. I get ahead and then I turn. When I get ahead, I put out everything at once. So my snowball. I get. This is what I've been. I've calculated my snowballs off. So I. I'll put so much to this and then get back behind and I have to turn around and borrow again.

[George Campbell]

Behind for what? Are you not paying your bills?

[Caller]

Well, no, like, like I'll pay on something. So as of right Now, I was 65. So I've been. I've been paying toward. Toward things. But then I have to turn around and borrow. Then I get back behind again.

[George Campbell]

So it's a budgeting issue. You're not properly allocating your paychecks.

[Caller]

Yeah, okay. That's what I. I guess that would be right.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Okay. That's what I was digging for. And George, that's where the coaching's gotta happen. Right here, is to really truly get control of the money so you know where it is, because that makes sense. Now you've got the income. It just sounds like you're not putting it where it needs to go. So.

[George Campbell]

And then it's disappearing into bills and lifestyle and spending. So I'm going to gift you every dollar, John, the premium version. And I want you to do something very specific. You're going to click on the paycheck planning tool and it's going to help show you where all the bills fall by the due dates. So you're going to enter all that in. It will actually show you if and when you're going to run out of money. And then you can move the. Move the bills around so that they fall behind the paycheck.

[Announcer]

Right.

[George Campbell]

Because right now everything's happening and you're going, I don't have the money to cover this next bill. And so it will visualize that all for you inside of every dollar. And I think that will change the game for you. On top of having a little bit of buffer in your checking account account, because right now you sounds like you're riding real tight to cover all the bills.

[Caller]

Yeah, Right now, as a matter of fact, my checking accounts in the negative. It changed me to say that, but it's in the negative right now.

[George Campbell]

Oh, boy. Have you. Can you turn off the overdraft with your bank? Because right now you're getting, ding. 35 bucks a pop every time that happens. Yeah, so just turn it off. Transaction won't go through.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And that, that'll reflect the reality that you guys are in. And that next paycheck, leave 500 bucks in the.

[Caller]

There.

[George Campbell]

Never let your checking account go below 500. That becomes your floor. And then you'll budget with everything on top of that. And so every dollar will walk you through this, John. On top of giving you personalized recommendations on how to find extra margin because you have a great income, you're working your tail off. I want you to feel it so you can become a millionaire. I did the numbers for you, 45 to 67. You invest 15% of $100,000 income, you'll have over $1.5 million. That's 22 years of consistent investing. But you got to get out of debt first. Got to get that emergency fund. And I'm giving you three years to do all of that. You got this.

[Announcer]

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[Ken Coleman]

Advertising results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Scott is up in Denver, Colorado. Scott, how can we help?

[George Campbell]

Hi.

[Caller]

So I was calling to see if I could get some advice. Long story short, my wife and I had purchased a house about three years ago. We were in good. We were making. We're making all our Payments. Then recently she got laid off, had to get a job, you know, got a job as soon as possible and was able to, you know, help again, kind of in that sense. But currently we're kind of living paycheck to paycheck with the house and it's kind of eating us up. So I'm trying to think of what would be the best solution or how to go about this and to see if selling our house would be the next best step.

[George Campbell]

Sorry to hear that. What do you guys make a year now?

[Caller]

So now we're making about 90, 96,000 a year. Okay, that's about, that's kind of like after taxes, I guess, or before.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so what's your monthly take home pay?

[Caller]

Give me two seconds, I can, I.

[George Campbell]

Can crunch it for you. If you're saying that's your, your take home, is it be eight grand a month?

[Caller]

Just about, yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay, and what's your mortgage payment?

[Caller]

20, 28.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so nothing's on fire here. Is it higher than I would like? You know, we say 25% of your after tax income. That would be two grand. 2,800 is not end of the world. I would not go selling your house tomorrow because of this. You should still have, you know, over five grand in margin to then live your life. So the question is, what is all that getting eaten up by? Do you guys have other debt?

[Caller]

So, I mean, we do, we have, I have my student loans, which is just a lump sum and then a smaller lump sum.

[George Campbell]

What's the total of all your consumer debt?

[Caller]

So no credit cards, but just student loans is about 27.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Anything else?

[Caller]

I, not that I can think of, no.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so why are you paycheck to paycheck?

[Caller]

I don't know. I mean we, you know, we, we, we save. So I mean we, we try to save as what we can. We tithe. And then we also set aside money for, for, for, you know, for the mortgage and then kind of end up scraps. I mean it. I can't really.

[George Campbell]

Have you guys ever sat down as a couple and completed an every dollar budget where you just lay out, okay, $8,000 coming in. Here's everything going out. If we follow this to a T, this is what will happen.

[Caller]

Yeah, we do, we do budget meetings. But you know, I, I think my issue is that, I don't know, it's hard to say.

[Ken Coleman]

No, it's not. Hold on a second, I'm listening here. And I'm just going to be real blunt with you. Either you do know and you're not comfortable owning up to it or you don't know. And I got a gut. Tell me if I'm wrong. My gut is you guys actually might do a budget, but you don't follow it. That's my guess.

[Caller]

That sounds right. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you mean it sounds right?

[Caller]

Well, you're right.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, you see where I'm going here? Like, you're being coached right now, and you can't coach somebody who doesn't go, oh, okay, yeah, I do see that. And because either we're right or we're wrong. And so I heard that. And so the issue then, George, is that's what I thought. They do a budget, and I think that's a generous application.

[George Campbell]

It's like me making a workout plan. Do I do the workout right, George?

[Ken Coleman]

This is exactly pick on George. If George had a workout plan that he found online and he went to the gym and, and he only was in there for 15 minutes and I.

[George Campbell]

Went to the sauna and steam room and didn't actually do the workout, would.

[Ken Coleman]

You call that working out? No, no, I don't think that what you're doing is budgeting.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So, right, That's. And again, it's not to pick on you. It's to help you see, that's why you can't answer George with certainty.

[George Campbell]

Right. We want to solve the right problem here. And the truth is, yes, it stinks that the income went down, but you have a great income still. I mean, you guys are making six figures after tax. I don't know how you grew up, but that's rich in my neck of the woods. And so your mortgage payment isn't the thing that's sinking you. I think it's the lifestyle creep and spending that you. Now, it's been exposed because of the lower income, because you could stomach it when you guys were making more. And now you're going, man, things feel tight. Which means if you look at your bank statement, it might be a better picture of your real financial reality of, man, we spent a lot on doordash this. This month. We've been going out to eat. We have all these subscriptions, we have all these luxuries that we really can't afford right now while we clean up debt. So if I'm in your shoes, I'm not going to be doing any saving or investing right now. I'm just going to be cleaning up those student loans. What do all those payments add up to for the student loans?

[Caller]

It's like $325 okay, so you'll get.

[George Campbell]

A raise right there. That's almost four grand a year that you'll have back in your life once you pay these student loans down. And then you'll have a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months. How much do you have in savings now?

[Caller]

I mean, we do have ten grand in savings.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So we're not quite following the steps. If you. Following the baby steps, you would take nine of that 10 and throw it at the debt.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Which gets you down to 18. And if you stop saving and investing right now, you could probably knock out 18 grand pretty quick. Like, what, four months? All right, so by fall, we are now completely debt free, restocking our emergency fund. And by 2027, you guys have no debt, fully funded emergency fund, Your income's probably gone up, and the mortgage payment will now feel very reasonable. Reasonable. Now, I hope your income goes up and the mortgage payment becomes 25. But I don't think that's the root issue here that you called in about.

[Caller]

Gotcha. Okay.

[George Campbell]

Is there a room for her to make more and get back to what she was making?

[Caller]

I think eventually, I. I mean, she had a tech job. Now it's a basically just different field, different everything. She was just able to get something as soon as possible, you know, and kind of got a job with what she wanted to try and so good. Yeah, so she's. She's able to try that, but I mean, enjoy and try this job that she's always had an interest in. I mean, it's just a little bit less, but that's okay.

[George Campbell]

Well, I think she'll make up the difference because as Ken Coleman talks about, if you enjoy what you do, you're probably going to be better at it. You're going to want to become a master at it and excel at it, which usually leads to promotions and raises.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's right. So appreciate the call, but I think you guys just lock in, you know, and actually know where our money is.

[George Campbell]

Going and which means tracking the transactions as the month goes on and not just setting it and then forgetting it and looking at next month going. All right, let's plan for the other month.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. Let's go to Chris in Boise, Idaho. Chris, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, how you doing?

[George Campbell]

I've.

[Caller]

I've been following you guys pretty religiously since I was a young man, and I've done pretty well for myself. Haven't bought a car in 10 years. My truck's actually almost 15 years old, but it's going Strong. I had to give my, my wife's car away to my son because he needed it for work. So now the first time in 10 years we got to buy a car and I'm thinking about going against all the things that I learned over the years and taking out a loan. We want to get a nice call. I know, I know.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen, before we say anything, before we say anything, I just would love to know what your mental process when you called into the show, since you've listened to Dave and presumably us for many, many years, what was your thought process in asking that question though? What'd you think we were going to say?

[Caller]

I know, I know. So here's the, here's the issue. So I'm retired and if I pull the money out of my IRA, it's going to be a 20% tax on it.

[George Campbell]

Don't do that.

[Caller]

Yeah. If I take out a short term loan, you know, right now they're at 3 to, you know, 2 to 4%. And if I do, Chris, you told.

[George Campbell]

Me this has been like a decades long process. You know, you got to save up for things that you want over time. Why is it now all of a sudden an emergency?

[Caller]

Well, it's, it's, it's not really an emergency, but we want to do something. You know, we want to buy a nice car. We haven't had a nice car.

[George Campbell]

Let me rephrase that. You want to live beyond your means and you did not have the discipline to save up for it and so you want to shortcut it with a loan that's now going to add stress and risk to your life.

[Caller]

Well, it's not really that. I mean we've got, we've got a lot of money.

[George Campbell]

I don't know. If you have a lot of money then buy it in cash.

[Caller]

Well, but then I'm paying 20%.

[George Campbell]

Then you don't have a lot of money. If you're talking about retirement money, we're not going to touch that if it's going to be taxed and penalized. So we got to save up and have money. We can actually use retail. Right now that's liquid, a high yield savings account. And so it sounds like you just, you got to save up. We're going to be down to one car for a little while until we can do that.

[Ken Coleman]

I think it's great advice. I don't know why you needed a shout. I don't know. I don't think that was necessary.

[George Campbell]

Cuz he knows better.

[Ken Coleman]

You stop yelling at the callers. Foreign. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. George Campbell is sitting alongside me. I'm Ken Coleman. And warning to all of you, he is a little frisky today. He's a little upset. He's had it up to where, George?

[George Campbell]

Top of the head up to here. And I know I'm not that tall, but I'm telling you, still, that's pretty high.

[Ken Coleman]

He's a little upset. So we'll see what happens here. Beware callers. Oh, Michael is up in Orlando. Michael, how can we help?

[Caller]

Oh, man. I hope you're not too upset. How you guys doing?

[George Campbell]

I'll be kind.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, Michael, I'm here to protect you because he is steaming. I'm kidding. We're having a little bit of fun. Go ahead.

[Caller]

All right. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, guys. So I'm not sure if I'm a little too. What's the word? Like, if I'm exaggerating or if it's a really big problem. But. But I just wanted to hear what you guys think. So, basically, I got laid off from my job as a healthcare retention specialist about April of last year. So maybe eight months, I guess. And I ended up going back into my family's business. So that did not work out as well as I thought it would for me. And it caused a lot of family drama. So I kind of drifted off from that.

[George Campbell]

And.

[Caller]

Since about November or December, I would say I've been looking for new work. And I went back to school working on my PMP certification. I've always followed you guys for. Since my childhood, basically.

[Ken Coleman]

So you've been out. You've been out of work for a few months. What's your question for us?

[Caller]

Yeah, so, I mean, I have been out of work. I do flip cars. That's. You can call it a side hustle. So, I mean, I. I carry myself that way.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

I went to school for my PMP certification. I went back over that. That, and since then, I've been looking for work. I do travel a lot.

[Ken Coleman]

So how can we. How can we help you today?

[Caller]

So basically, I'm wondering. The schooling put me about $9,000 in debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And you finished again. You have the PMP certification now?

[Caller]

No, I do not. I have the EAPM. So it's basically the associate of the PMP.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So you got $9,000 in debt.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I'm just a little worried because I haven't really found the work yet. I'm looking for work as a project coordinator or assistant project manager at this point.

[Ken Coleman]

What's your payment. What's your monthly payment on the 9,000?

[Caller]

So I think it's about. We can. I think it's about 450.

[Ken Coleman]

Any other debt at all?

[Caller]

No, sir.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So, Michael, I love all the background you've given us. Fabulous context. What is your question?

[Caller]

So I'm not exactly sure how I should approach this because.

[Ken Coleman]

You should approach what?

[George Campbell]

The debt.

[Caller]

The debt.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's assume that your question is, how do I pay off the $9,000 as quick as I possibly can? What's the best way to do it?

[George Campbell]

George, you need income to do that, right? Now you're saying you don't have any income except for the car flipping, which is just getting you by.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Where are you living?

[Caller]

So I move back and forth.

[George Campbell]

Where are you living, Michael? Just tell me right now where you live.

[Caller]

Living right now? I'm in New York. I'm gonna go to India in a few days.

[George Campbell]

Why? You say you're traveling all the time. A guy who's broke shouldn't be traveling all the time.

[Caller]

Right? I actually help out with the. With my family. They do some work over there. So.

[Ken Coleman]

So you're going to India to make money? Are you going to India to make money?

[Caller]

I'm not going to get anything for myself, no.

[Ken Coleman]

Michael, what are we doing, buddy? You need a job.

[George Campbell]

Like my screen says, should I file for bankruptcy? So you're telling me you're doing volunteer work while on the verge of bankruptcy?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes or no?

[Caller]

I guess you could say yes.

[Ken Coleman]

No, it's yes. All right. So, yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah, you're right.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. So you need a job working at a gas station. You need a job working at a warehouse. You don't have time for this degree or certificate, whatever that is.

[George Campbell]

You've been floundering for too long. Can we agree on that?

[Caller]

Define floundering.

[George Campbell]

You've been just floating through life, bopping around in the pinball machine and just hoping that you make it through. Can we agree that's not a good strategy?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Absolutely not.

[George Campbell]

We need some purpose. We need some clarity. We need some urgency.

[Ken Coleman]

But not bankruptcy. Let's just boil this down. You don't need to file bankruptcy for $9,000 worth of debt when you are an able bodied young man. So you pay off the $9,000. So George is going to tell you very straightforward how you. Let's assume the income is there. And he's got to go do that.

[George Campbell]

You get the project coordinator job. Here's what you do. 40, $45,000 or or warehouse or gas station or whatever.

[Ken Coleman]

Just right now, you need some income. And by the way, it's not on the way to India. All right, George, how's he pay the 9,000 off?

[George Campbell]

So you were going to live like a broke person, which should be easy, because right now that's kind of how you're living. But you're going to spend nothing outside of food, utilities, housing, transportation, and every other dollar that you can free up is going to go toward that debt, and you'll pay it off pretty fast. You can throw a thousand bucks a month at this thing. You're done in nine months. You're done before the end of the year. That gets you to freedom. But the thing is, the $9,000 is not the major problem here, because for most people, that's nothing. They be like, this guy's barely in debt. Why is he calling the show? There is a mindset issue here because you called in saying, I'm on the verge of bankruptcy because I went into some student loan debt for a certification. And that tells me there's a deeper issue here, that you've been living this way for your whole adult life without real purpose or clarity or mentorship, coaching. And that's what we're here to do. And so you need to get that job and you need to stop traveling. You need to save up some money and avoid going to debt ever again. And I hope you can do that. At least you got the certification done. I don't know what it takes to get to a full pmp if it. If you need that to get the.

[Ken Coleman]

Job, more money, sounds like.

[George Campbell]

But maybe they'll pay for it. If you get a good job and you work your tail off, they'll go, hey, we'll send you back to get the full PMP certification. And I hope that helps.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, we're going to go to Sam in New York now. Sam, we got to get the quick question here straightforward, and it looks like we can answer this one. What you got for us?

[Caller]

Okay, I'm looking at my 401k. It's with the common money company known, and the choices are mutual funds and no money companies. The first row, they get a cut. The second row, they get a cut. The mutual funds and some of the mutual funds invest in other mutual funds. I'm paying multiple layers of fees. I'm thinking I might be just ahead just to take my money and go to one of these platforms where there's zero trading fees and just go buy, buy, you know, a couple of shares of the Dow if I want that. Or a couple shares of the s and P500, a couple shares of the Russell or maybe the Russell.

[Ken Coleman]

So the question is, should you. So the question is should you do.

[Caller]

Your own training management?

[Ken Coleman]

Right?

[Caller]

What's that?

[Ken Coleman]

So we got it. Should you do your own trading? Should you be your own stock investor broker? All right.

[George Campbell]

If you want to invest in a Roth IRA and you want to open that yourself, you've done your research, you want to just invest in the S P, you can absolutely do that, that with low fees. But I would actually look into what you're really paying with your 401k. I doubt it's as much as you think it is when you look at the expense ratios. But start with the Roth IRA and then once you max that out, go back to your, your 401k and you'll be fine. In the long run, your returns should beat any expenses. There are.

[Announcer]

It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your tax season. But here's a better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way they can take the stress off your shoulders once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait. Ramsey trusted pros can book up fast. Go to ramseysolutions.com taxpro to find one who serves your area area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com taxpro.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, Our question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? Defaulted private student loans don't go away by ignoring them, but you can face them with a plan. Why Refi helps you refinance into low fixed rate payments built around what you can afford so you can take control and get back on the baby steps. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey that's y r e f y.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states.

[George Campbell]

Today's question comes from Ethan in New Mexico. He says, I'm an unmarried sales rep in my mid twenties and considering buying my first home. I want it to be a blessing, not a burden. So I'm confused as to why you use net take home pay to determine the recommended monthly payment and other money experts go off of gross income. I understand the difference but would appreciate an explanation about the why behind your recommendation. Okay, so to be clear, Ethan is talking about our housing parameter. So your rent or mortgage should be no more than 25% of your after tax monthly income. And he's wondering, why do you say after tax? All these other guys say gross income's fine or 30% of your gross income. Here's why. Your net income versus gross can vary greatly depending on where you live. Just ask anybody in California. Their gross income does not mean that's how much they get to use in our economy. And so net income is a much better indicator of your financial stability as far as what you can actually use to pay your bills.

[Ken Coleman]

Bills.

[George Campbell]

So net income, yes, it's more conservative than your gross income. 25% is more conservative than most people suggest, but it is to allow you to get through the other baby steps. So baby step. 4, 5, 6. Investing for the future. Saving for kids, college, paying off the house early, which is something that most people don't do. So that's why it's conservative. And if you're an unmarried sales rep in your mid-20s, you got time on your side to buy a house. Don't rush into it. Just wait until you can do it to where it's a blessing. Yeah, good luck. That's my take. I don't know. Dave may have a different explanation of it's his parameter, but I agree with it and it worked for me.

[Ken Coleman]

I like it. I liked it. Jefferson is up in Indianapolis. Jefferson, how can we help?

[Caller]

I had a question on when I first started working, I set up my retirement to increase 1% every year. And now that's several years later. And I have some debt. And I'm wondering if I should back off the retirement to pay down the debt and then push it back up later because my company only offers 1% match, so it's not like I'm getting much free money from them.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. How much debt do you have?

[Caller]

About 68,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And how much do you make?

[Caller]

Together, my wife and I bring home about 140.

[George Campbell]

Awesome. So how long do you think if you paused investing, you would save the amount you're investing? You know, your percentage you're investing, which is how much much? What's the percentage?

[Caller]

It'll probably be oh, or the amount? 13%.

[George Campbell]

13%. And how much do you make?

[Caller]

I make myself 82.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you would gain 10 grand back for the year if you paused investing for one year, which would get you out of debt faster.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Now, are you still going to be able to retire if you do that? You're going to be okay with your nest egg if we come back swinging at 15% or more for the rest of Your life.

[Announcer]

Life.

[Caller]

Should be okay.

[George Campbell]

That's what I would do.

[Caller]

Only 33, so I should have.

[George Campbell]

Oh, you got plenty of time on your side. So I'm making 140k. You know, if you throw, let's say, how much do you think you could throw right now towards the debt if you paused investing, which would give you, you know, a decent chunk, 833 bucks back in your life every month.

[Caller]

So we have. I sold a bunch of silver coins recently, so I have almost 20,000 I have in a mutual fund.

[Announcer]

Great.

[George Campbell]

Sorry.

[Caller]

Money market account.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

But we have to do a new roof inside on our house this year. So I've been holding on to that to do that first, and then whatever's left from that, I can throw at it.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So, I mean, the new roof might take. That might take 20 grand.

[Caller]

These days I'm gonna do myself, so I only have to buy the supply, so I should hopefully be a lot less than that.

[George Campbell]

Wow, that's impressive. Okay, so I wish I could do that. Let's say you got 50, you know, grand. Let's say you have 10 grand. You pay it down to 58. Could you throw, I don't know, five grand a month towards this debt?

[Caller]

At that point, probably not five grand, because we have two kids that are both in daycare, and that eats up a lot. But we can probably do maybe an extra grand a month.

[George Campbell]

So how much total going towards the debt?

[Caller]

It would be between 2 and 2,500amonth.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so I'll do the math for you. 2,500amonth, it would take you roughly two years.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

If you did it that way. Now, if you can free up more money, it'll take you less time, obviously. So that would be the goal is, worst case, we're out of debt in two years. And then I'm back to investing not 13%, but 15% until the House is paid off, and then you can invest even more beyond that and catch up. So you got plenty of time. I mean, you still got three decades of a working career, so I have no doubt you'll catch up. But right now, now it's, let's get rid of this debt and stay out.

[Ken Coleman]

But I want to challenge you. What would you say that you would that you could do to shorten that timeline that George just threw at you?

[Caller]

I've got some other stuff I could probably sell and a couple side hustles like making maple syrup and making lumber.

[Ken Coleman]

That's where I was going, knowing your skill set. So now the fun Exercise, George, gave you a great starting point. And so now it's okay. What would I. How much money would I need to make to do it in 12 months? And you put that number out, then you go, how can I make that money? And all of a sudden it just gets really, really fun. You are a serious person. You'll get pretty motivated. And I'm telling you the exercises to say how much money to do it in 12 months, George, give us that number.

[George Campbell]

12 months would be five grand. That's the number I originally threw out. Man, it'd be cool to knock this out in 2012 months.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so then, now we have a number. And with your skill set, stuff you can sell, how quickly can you make the five grand? That's your. That's your homework assignment.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And watch how fun that gets. And. And I gotta. I gotta do a little mini lesson on this, George. Okay, this is. I nerd out on this stuff sometimes. I haven't nerd out in a while.

[George Campbell]

And this is about time. You've been holding out on it.

[Ken Coleman]

There's a lot of people, people that need to hear this. They're in different situation than Jefferson. But it, it is the power of focus. Okay, you remember the last time you bought a car, George?

[George Campbell]

Yeah, it was recently.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Do you remember seeing that car all over the road?

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, like three, five, seven days after that.

[George Campbell]

Oh, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

That's an actual effect from psychology.

[George Campbell]

I notice them a lot more.

[Ken Coleman]

And everybody does. This has happened to everybody. And this is the power of focus. And so what I want people to understand is that when you buy a car, that's an intense. Right. There's a lot of maybe research. Of course there is sleepless nights. Sleepless nights, maybe, or positive emotion. But you are focused on it. And the day comes and you make the purchase, you drive it off the lot. We see it everywhere. Now, the car gods didn't just drop that in there all of a sudden to mess with you.

[George Campbell]

There's not actually more of that.

[Ken Coleman]

There's not more of those. But why do we see. See it? And the answer is this nerdy thing in our brain called the reticular activating system. And it's the part of the brain that takes pictures on what we focus on. And so that's why some days when we're having a bad day and we feel like everybody's against us, you know, and you're at the grocery store and the kid talks to you like, you know, you're an idiot. But he probably wasn't. But You've been walking around all day going, I'm getting treated this way at home. I'm getting treated this whatever. The point is what we focus on our brain then goes and takes pictures of it. And so very nerdy. I get it. But this is all scientific. It's all psychology. The brain is powerful. And so him focusing on $5,000, somehow, some way my life changes dramatically for $5,000. But for people that are listening, that are in much deeper debt, $50,000, that seems like insurmountable until you start to focus on how can I come up with or how can I pay off off $50,000? And I just wanted to encourage people that are listening and watching today that if you focus on the right steps and the baby steps are what you focus on, it's why Dave preaches it. It's why we preach it, by the way.

[George Campbell]

It's why it's worked because focused intensity.

[Ken Coleman]

Focused intensity over time. Right. Multiplied by God, unstoppable momentum. And so I just want people to understand your brain will do the work if you give it the right inputs.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So focus on whatever I got to do to make $5,000. And then opportunities that you didn't see previously will absolutely appear. Just like the car that you bought.

[George Campbell]

Things that look like work before now become an opportunity to go make an extra thousand bucks.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So I mean, this mindset stuff isn't motivational gobbity gook. This is the way your brain works. So focus on the right stuff and watch good stuff happen.

[Announcer]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, if you have a simple tax situation like you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, you need to use Ramsey Smart tax. It's affordable and it keeps your filing simple for a simple tax situation. Plus it's got built in support in case you need a little bit of help. Filing early means getting the best deals and you get that tax stress off your shoulders. So go to ramseysolutions.com smart tax. That's ramseysolutions.com smart tax and you can Start filing now. All right, George, you ready for a baby steps millionaire call? These are always really fun. Let's go. Inspiring, they are Sioux Falls. Have you ever been to Sioux Falls, by the way?

[George Campbell]

I haven't.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I have. It's lovely that the Falls, by the way, runs right, right, right down.

[George Campbell]

I didn't think about. There's real falls.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not just in the name and it's absolutely stunning. Eric is joining us in Sioux Falls. Eric, congratulations on being a baby steps millionaire. Thanks for being on with us and sharing your story.

[Caller]

Thanks, Ken and George, it's an honor.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so, you know, we like to run you through the list of questions here. You ready to roll?

[Caller]

Let's rock and roll.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, tell us your net worth, Eric.

[Caller]

We just creeped over a million basically at the first of the year. So we've been watching it, watching it little by little and finally got there.

[Ken Coleman]

Congratulations on that. That's gotta feel good.

[Caller]

It did. It did. You know, we. We didn't get to quite celebrate with the millionaires on the Ramsey cruise last March, but just took us a few. Almost another year and we were there.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I got great news for you, Eric. We got another one coming in 2027 and it's half full, so you might want to join us on that.

[Caller]

I know. I just gotta hope my schedule lines up and allows us to go because it looks like a great route.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, George will write a note to your boss if you.

[George Campbell]

You like adopting.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it'd be great.

[Caller]

Probably more the kids that are the problem.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, well, I can't help you there.

[Caller]

No, no, probably can't.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

How old are you, Eric?

[Caller]

I am 44, about to turn 45. My wife's a couple years younger than me.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice.

[Announcer]

Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

And. All right, tell us what the mix of the 1 million net worth is.

[Caller]

So we've got a house that's probably worth about a half a million. We still owe about 165 on that. We've got about. About 400 and some thousand in 401ks and IRAs. And then we've got about 150,000 in liquid cash.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, very nice. What's your income?

[Caller]

It's when we got married 20 years ago was maybe all of 50,000. And now it pushes about 200.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you guys do?

[Caller]

I'm a CFO for a local power sports family of dealerships. And my wife is a manager at a sporting goods store.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I like that. Boy, I bet you guys get the fun discounts between the power sports stuff and the sporting goods store, that's kind of fun for me. George doesn't know what any of that means, but I would enjoy that. Now, do you?

[Caller]

Be careful not spending it, all right?

[Ken Coleman]

Right, right, right. That's good. Do you use a Smartvestor Pro by any chance?

[Caller]

We do. We use local. Local Compass Financial that we've used for a good, you know, 12 or so years that we love. So he certainly helped us with that.

[Ken Coleman]

Got you set up well for the future because you're still a young man.

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

How much of the. Well, we know this already, but we want to point out a lot of people think that wealthy people like you inherited. You inherited zero, I'm guessing. Is that true?

[Caller]

That's actually not true. Three years ago, my grandmother died. And because unfortunately my dad had already died, my dad's portion went to my siblings and I.

[Ken Coleman]

How much?

[Caller]

We bought 90,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

All right.

[Ken Coleman]

Not a huge amount, but I definitely.

[Caller]

I give it back, though, you know, to have. Have it gone to the generation before, but it's gonna pass on its blessings.

[Ken Coleman]

What did you do with the 90,000?

[Caller]

It's actually sitting in a CD, earning more interest than I'm paying on my mortgage. And when those lines cross each other in three years, the mortgage is going to be gone.

[Announcer]

Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, very interesting.

[George Campbell]

Interesting.

[Ken Coleman]

And let's see here. Do you have a degree? You and your wife, do you have degrees?

[Caller]

Yep. I have a bachelor's in accounting. She has a bachelor's in business administration.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, and what was your GPA?

[Caller]

I probably barely got through. I had about a 2.4. As Dave would say, I played a little too much beer pong and she was much smarter than me. She had close to a three set, she tells me.

[Ken Coleman]

Isn't that fascinating? And George, some of these questions, you know, this is a pattern from our largest study ever done. Over 10,000 net worth millionaires. And these are very interesting facts. Everybody thinks, well, you're a valedictorian or whatever.

[George Campbell]

You're a genius.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And Eric, again, like every good man, clearly married up. So she did better than you in GPA.

[George Campbell]

And even with your 2.4, you became a CFO, making a great income.

[Ken Coleman]

I know.

[George Campbell]

Just to give people hope that it's not all down to, you know, how well you focused in school.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's another fun thing we love to ask net worth millionaires.

[George Campbell]

What.

[Ken Coleman]

What kind of jeans do you wear? Bill? Excuse me, Eric. Eric, I apologize.

[Caller]

Levi's.

[Ken Coleman]

You wear Levi's? The new fangled ones or old school?

[Caller]

No, no, it's probably about three, four years old now.

[George Campbell]

Where do you guys shop normally? Where does an actual real life millionaire. Where do you guys tend to go for things like groceries and clothing?

[Caller]

We've got Fairway and Hy Vee here in South Dakota. You know, try to keep the wife out of target as much as possible.

[Ken Coleman]

I got to do a follow up. Eric, are you a boot cut? The jean. What, what cut do you like to wear?

[Caller]

Probably more just straight.

[Ken Coleman]

Just straight. Okay, very good.

[George Campbell]

You gotta wonder, you know, because you picture a millionaire, Ken, people think of.

[Ken Coleman]

I thought maybe he rides a horse and he wears boots. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

You think of an athlete, a celebrity, and you got the Erics of the world just out there in their straight cut jeans.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Now, Eric, George and I are both short, so we have to have our jeans tailored. Do you wear yours right off the rack?

[Caller]

Right off the rack. It's the most amazing thing.

[George Campbell]

What a blessing.

[Ken Coleman]

That's incredible. I love it. Too much on the jeans. Now I gotta move on.

[George Campbell]

I want to ask about the cool cars. People always want to know, what do millionaires drive? We see people driving around fancy cars. What do you guys have give us the year, makes and model.

[Caller]

So we drive Hondas, Toyotas in the past though. So my wife drives a 15 Honda Pilot. I just got a 12 Honda Pilot because they just passed an 06 and accord down to a. A 14 year old driver. Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

That's awesome.

[George Campbell]

You were driving a car that is 14 years old.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I kind of miss it, to be honest with you. Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

And, and, and tell people why. Eric, we're asking that question. How? Play into this financial picture you gave us.

[Caller]

Well, I mean, yeah, we've spent some money in repairs and maintenance, but I, I'm not going to write a check for $40,000 for a brand new car and just watch all that value disappear. I'm just, I got too much tight wad syndrome in me. It's going to be hard enough just to upgrade. Even when we are debt free.

[George Campbell]

Even, even if you had an extra 500 grand laying around, you're still like, I don't know that I want to sink it all into that.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Campbell]

Well, especially as a cfo, you understand, you know, fiscal responsibility.

[Caller]

Yeah. A little too much.

[Ken Coleman]

Would you, would you ever upgrade to a Hyundai by any chance?

[Caller]

No, probably not.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, there you go.

[Caller]

I don't think I would call that an upgrade at all.

[Announcer]

Boom.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, wow.

[George Campbell]

Hyundai burn.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. He took a shot at them.

[George Campbell]

Well, if you're a Honda man, you Know you're.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's why I asked.

[George Campbell]

He's an elitist.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

He knows.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, those cars are great cars. Okay, what it. What would you say to young people that are listening, watching this?

[George Campbell]

All right, there's a 24. 4 year old who's 20 years younger than you, just getting started.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Could they, could they mirror what you did? What would you tell them to, to get to where you are today?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think they certainly can. You just got to be, you just got to start. You just got to live off a budget. You can't just, you know, be racking things up on credit cards or not paying attention. You know, I just started using every dollar like two years ago. But I still have Excel spreadsheets going back to when we were first married. You gotta, you just gotta pay attention to what you're doing. Be diligent, pay yourself at least a little bit first. And the baby steps work. Just use them.

[Ken Coleman]

That's good.

[George Campbell]

Just stay out of debt. Live below your means as you make more money. Don't spend it all. Don't have lifestyle creep. Eat it all up and drive those used cars and instead build wealth instead of just trying to look wealthy.

[Caller]

Yeah, 100%. I remember my parents saying, if you can't pay for it, then you can't afford it. So there you go. Go.

[Ken Coleman]

I love that. So how do you feel now about the future of your family? The things that you might be able to do, the kids, you know, and what they've seen you do. How has this lifestyle and now where you've just crossed this line, what a big, you know, achievement. How does that, what's the emotional and mindset now that you have having crossed this line of being a, a baby steps millionaire?

[Caller]

It feels good. I think honestly it'll probably feel even more real when the house is paid off and you know, about the same time that you got a kid getting ready to go to college and line those things up, the bills never disappear. Right. As the kids get older, the bill, there's just more zeros on it. But every once in a while, that's why it's good. Like you say to meet with the smartvestor pro about once a year. It's like, okay, you stay, sit back and take the big picture and everything starts to open up for the future. And it's like, all right, we, we did it. We, we, we ground it out. We can't afford to do some things and let go of the purse strings every once in a while.

[Ken Coleman]

Love it. There you go.

[Caller]

Wake up someday and you can't anymore.

[Ken Coleman]

So, so true. I love it. You know what else I love? The straight leg Levis. You can dress those up or dress them down. He can wear a sport coat.

[George Campbell]

That's good advice from a millionaire from.

[Ken Coleman]

From a cfo.

[Announcer]

How many times have you started January saying, this is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control? But then months go by and you still feel broke. You work too hard to keep living like that. Look, there's only one way to move the needle on your finances this year. You've got to have a plan. So start by downloading EveryDollar. EveryDollar is way more than our world class budgeting app. In 15 minutes, we'll build you a personalized plan to free up extra margin in your budget and use it to beat debt and build wealth. You'll find thousands of dollars on average just the first day. And you'll get new steps and new lessons every day that help you stay on track and create unstoppable momentum. Don't waste one more day feeling broke and stressed. Get your plan in just 15 minutes by downloading everydollar for free. Free today.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Our scripture of the day comes from 1st Thessalonians 5, 18. Give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. Our quote of the day from Zig Ziglar. Be grateful for what you have and stop complaining. It bores everybody else, does you no good, and doesn't solve any problems.

[Announcer]

Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

Huh? How about that?

[George Campbell]

I felt personal, Zig. I try to make my complaints entertaining. That's the goal.

[Ken Coleman]

I find them entertaining. I don't know if that's just because of your delivery or my weird sense of humor. All right. Bill is up in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Bill, how can we. We help?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. How's it going? I had a question for you. I have all my debt paid off except for my house. I had to take out a home equity loan on that house. And I'm trying to decide which way which loan I should focus on paying off either the mortgage or the home equity loan. And trying to get some advice on that.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, lay out the balances for us.

[Caller]

So the principal mortgage is 135,000 and the home equity loan is 125,000.

[George Campbell]

Goodness gracious. You said you had to take the HELOC out. Who forced your hand on that?

[Caller]

My ex wife.

[George Campbell]

Oh, so it was a buyout as part of the divorce.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[George Campbell]

You needed to give her her share, and so he Locked in. All right. I mean you win in the exceptions to the rule.

[Ken Coleman]

And you know what I like about this Bill? You got him, he thought he had you in a corner and you put him in his place.

[George Campbell]

I thought Bill put a real nice pool out back. Okay, so you got the HELOC and you've got the mortgage. They're similar balances. I would still attack the HELOC first.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

It's a variable interest rate and can be called due at any time. So it's riskier than your fixed rate mortgage. I assume your mortgage is fixed rate.

[Caller]

So. Yeah, they're actually both fixed.

[George Campbell]

Oh, it is a fixed rate. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And the principal is two and three quarter percent and the HELOC is like five and a half.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Yeah. I would just attack that HELOC at that point. Since they're similar balances, they're both fixed rate, the HELOC get the higher balance. It's just an added layer of risk. I would want to get rid of that first and just make your normal mortgage payment.

[Caller]

Outside of that, should I stop investing and do like I was doing when I was doing the debt?

[George Campbell]

Snow ball, what's your income?

[Caller]

155 a year.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So because this HELOC is more than half of your annual income, it would be a baby step six item.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And so that would mean you're investing 15%, putting money away for college if you need to, for the kids, and then anything else will go towards that HELOC while making minimums on the mortgage. So I don't know how long that's going to take you at this point. This sounds like it's probably going to be, you know, you're making 155. So to pay off 125 while making, investing and paying the mortgage, is that going to make things tight?

[Caller]

No. So what I did when I took it, took the HELOC out, I did it for 20 years. So the payment was manageable, but my focus was to get it paid off obviously, well before the 20 year mark.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

What's your goal with this? How long do you think it'll take?

[Caller]

I'm hoping in the next five years is what I'm hoping. I know on the, on the principal mortgage, about five and a half years is what I had what I owe left on it. And so I would like to get both of them kind of knocked out at the same time.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So you'll knock out about 25 grand a year off that HELOC and you're done in five years. And you'll be how old by then?

[Caller]

Five years? I'll be 49.

[George Campbell]

Okay, cool. And, yeah, investing 15% that whole time. Only because it's more than half your annual income. Income.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And so I would just keep on rocking. It's. It stinks that you're here. I'm sorry to hear about your situation. But you'll clean this up in due time. Luckily, the mortgage is reasonable. I mean, it's rare you hear about someone with a mortgage of 135 grand.

[Caller]

Yeah, well, that was. The goal, was to have that paid off next year. But other things happen.

[George Campbell]

Life happened.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Well, best of luck, man. Just think about it like this. You got, you know, 260 grand to pay off, which is still in America today. A reasonable mortgage.

[Ken Coleman]

Wildly. That's a very good point. Richard's up in Las Vegas now. Richard, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. How you doing?

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[George Campbell]

How are you?

[Caller]

I'm okay. Thank you for asking. I'm calling because I have a question about a few years back, I bought a bunch of snap on tools from the snap on truck, and I racked up about. I want to say about 7 to $8,000 in debt. With the toolbox, a scanner tool to scan vehicles, and the shop that I was working for shut down. So I was forced to just take my tools home. And I didn't continue with the mechanic career. I ended up doing construction, and things weren't going so well for me. And, you know, I went down the wrong path a little bit. And I'm barely starting to get back on my feet. And I got a phone call from a recovery agency saying that now I owe. They have a judgment against me, and now I owe them $17,000 and actually $17,500. For that. For that. For those tools, the interest, and the judgment. Now my question is, do I try to call snap on tools to pay snap on tools, or do I just pay the recovery agency? Because they say they're gonna go into collections, and then they're gonna start a wage garnishment and take 25% of my check.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have cash?

[Caller]

Do I have cash?

[Ken Coleman]

In other words, you just asked, should you pay? I'm asking, do you have money? Didn't sound like to me, like, at the start of this call, you had any extra money. Money laying around. You got money in savings or checking?

[Caller]

I got, like, $3,000 saved up, but I'm kind of just saving that for a rainy day because, well, it's raining.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. You need to validate all this Debt. So I wouldn't do anything yet. Because here's the thing. Did they actually sue you and win and get a court order?

[Caller]

Well, that's what they're telling me.

[George Campbell]

I remember getting your call, being sued, and then winning.

[Caller]

I recall receiving a paper from Snap on and I messed up, and I never showed up to the court date. But after that, I never got another letter in the mail saying that.

[George Campbell]

Okay. I would call your county clerk's office. That would be your next step. Ask if there's a judgment under your name and then validate that. And if. If it's true, then yes, if there's a judgment against you and they won, they can garnish your wages, and they will.

[Caller]

Okay. And should I start. Should I pay the recovery agency, or do I go directly to Snap On? Because they said that.

[George Campbell]

Well, Snap on likely sold them the debt because you didn't pay. Right. It went to collections, and now this debt recovery agency is trying to get as much as they can for this debt. So the truth is, you don't have the money. So what they'll likely do is allow you to settle, to call this good. But you're going to need some money in order to do that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Do you have the tools to still.

[Caller]

I have some of them.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, how much are those worth?

[Caller]

Not even half of what they're asking for.

[Ken Coleman]

I didn't ask you that. I didn't ask you that. That's a homework assignment. Now, I have no idea. Okay. I don't know anything about tools, but if these are nice tools and you can get some money for used tools, find out how much. Like, go do some research. Like, you got to take this thing. Like, you got to take the.

[George Campbell]

If you can sell the tools for $4,000 and then give that money to the debt recovery agency and say, hey, I've got four grand if you'll settle in full. But I need a letter in writing saying that you agree to this and it'll be paid in full if I give you this amount.

[Caller]

Got that they want. It's good. Yeah. They wanted eight. They said they would settle if I give them first. He said 9,000. I said I couldn't do that. Then they said, okay, they'll settle for $8,000.

[Ken Coleman]

That's great news for you. So contact them. Them and tell them I can't do eight, but I think I can do four.

[George Campbell]

Or if you give me until this date, here's how much I can do.

[Ken Coleman]

But look up what you can sell those tools for. That's the primary thing you should be doing because you essentially stole the tools, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So sell the tools and take whatever cash. Sell a bunch of other stuff. And if you can scrape together four grand, they'll probably take it. Don't you think, George?

[George Campbell]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

But the key to this is, Richard, you gotta make sure that you have something in writing so that they can't come back. Say you owe us more, that this is the settlement amount and I'm going to pay you.

[George Campbell]

So you record everything, write everything down, who you talk to, when you talk to them, what they said. Get everything in writing and email and do not give them debit card access. Do not give them your bank information. Do not agree to random payment plans. Do not let them harass you. You just got to say, I don't have the money. I want to settle and I will settle. At some point. Point I'm working on saving up the money.

[Ken Coleman]

And don't let this. Don't let this sit. You didn't show up to court. Don't let somebody talk you into this or whatever path you've been down. Don't go back down that path. Own up on this thing and fix this thing. This is doable and you can move on. This is not the end of your life. All right, everybody remember this. There's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Caller]

Sa.