I Cosigned 2 Cars For My Mom And Now They're Repossessed

Summary

The Ramsey Show – February 16, 2026

“I Cosigned 2 Cars For My Mom And Now They're Repossessed”

Hosts: George Campbell & Jade Warshaw
Topic: Real-life financial Q&A, debt, family dynamics, marriage & money, home buying, and generational wealth
Key Themes: Overcoming family-related debt, setting financial boundaries, marriage and finances, strategic generosity, and building financial independence.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, George and Jade coach callers through deeply personal, often challenging financial situations—ranging from cleaning up a parent-induced financial mess, to tackling marital money divides, to figuring out whether to gift adult children a house. The show emphasizes taking responsibility, setting firm boundaries, and attacking debt with “gazelle intensity.” Each call provides a lesson in real-life money management and tough love.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Cosigning Disaster: Arlie’s Story

[00:40 – 08:25]

• Caller Arlie (New York City) recounts being guilt-tripped by his mother into cosigning for two car loans and a personal loan; both cars ended up repossessed.
• Arlie now has $20k+ in debt (repossession deficits and personal loans), straining his young marriage and financial life.
• His mother also left state, owing up to $100k in personal loans, and cannot be trusted.
• The root of Arlie’s dilemma: cultural/familial guilt, imbalance of parental power, and financial manipulation.

Key Advice:

• Take ownership: “Your name’s on the debt. They don’t care where she is.” (George, 04:10)
• “Look to settle these for 40–50% of the actual amount owed.” (Jade, 04:19)
• Joint marital action: “You’re not going to be able to clean this mess up on your own… You need to work together.” (George, 05:17)
• Boundary-setting: “No more debt, no more cosigning. Never again is the line in the sand you need to draw.” (Jade, 07:09)
• Protect yourself: “Freeze your credit with all three bureaus. Pull reports. Make sure nothing else is out there.” (George, 08:01)

Notable Quotes:

“There is an imbalance of power there. When you’re 18, 21 and your parent is pressuring you… you feel the overwhelming need that they’re right.” — Jade, [07:09]

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2. Marriage Without Financial Unity

[10:35 – 19:49]

• Caller Barbara (New York City) has been married 12 years, but finances and home ownership are separate; she’s always felt like a “renter” in her own marriage.
• Husband maintains control; finances, property, and bills split by income percentage.
• Husband gets defensive when Barbara suggests true financial partnership.

Key Advice:

• Ownership: “You got off on the wrong foot—it set the tone for 12 years.” (Jade, 12:13)
• Reset the narrative: “Use ‘we’ statements. Say: ‘I want unity in this marriage… I didn’t sign up to be a roommate here.’” (George, 17:27)
• Stand firm: “If I were in your shoes, I’d be making some pretty strong statements about what I am and am not going to put up with.” (Jade, 19:03)
• Consider your well-being: “You deserve to live life. You don’t deserve to be in a prison with this guy.” (George, 19:50)

Notable Moments:

• “For all intents and purposes, that’s kind of the placement you guys have put you in… It’s OK to say this is not OK anymore.” — Jade, [18:38]
• “You have a roommate that you signed a contract with, essentially. And I’m sorry, that’s not fun. It’s not healthy.” — George, [15:27]

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3. Drowning in Taxes & Guilt Spending

[22:33 – 31:36]

• Caller Lisa (Hartford, CT) is 58, single mom of two, with $130k in debt ($70k tax, $60k credit cards, $10k IRS). Guilt over children’s stability post-divorce led her to live beyond her means.
• Making $105k plus a side job, but “drowning” because rent is $3,500/month.
• Still paying son’s car lease; can’t break the cycle.

Key Advice:

• Get radical: “Your rent is going to keep you from freedom here. Move—find $1,000/month rent even if you commute.” (Jade, 25:00)
• Money reality for adult kids: “Your kids are living more lavishly than you. You’ve done more than enough. You being a burden to them later is so much worse.” (George, 25:15)
• Hard choices: Cut expenses, sell/leverage the son’s car, and throw every dollar at debt using the debt snowball method.
• Urgency: “If it’s this or bankruptcy, I’ll take a 20-minute commute. That bankruptcy will destroy your life for 7 years.” (George, 26:37)

Memorable Quote:

“They love you. You don’t have to prove it by spending. It’s inherent.” — Jade, [25:00]

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4. To Gift a House or Not? Parents Helping Adult Children

[76:14 – 84:58]

• Caller Gloria (Albuquerque, NM) is on Baby Step 6 and debating whether to outright gift her paid-off rental property to her 28-year-old son and his wife (son is pursuing Christian music ministry and minimally employed).
• She and her husband feel called but recognize this might remove motivation and financial responsibility from her son.

Key Advice:

• Strategic generosity: “I would not cover his bills. I would help fund the dream… Pay for studio time or publicity, not the house bills.” (George, 83:11)
• Wait for full financial freedom: “Get yourself in the proper position to be outrageously generous—Baby Step 7.” (Jade, 84:06)
• Delayed gifting can be more impactful—consider tax implications and the dignity of building one’s own foundation.

Notable Quotes:

“There’s … dignity in going out and being able to provide for yourself and hit those milestones… If you’re asking, it feels very early in his growth and in his career to do that.” — Jade, [83:14]

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5. Home-Buying Dilemmas, Overanalysis, and Saving Like Crazy

[86:27 – 94:08]

• Caller Elijah (Boston, MA) and fiancé have $130k saved, $100k in stocks, and live in a camper to save money. Burned by one bad house, they consider building—but with no experience, and skeptical about taking on a mortgage.
• Struggle: Commitment to debt-freedom vs. real estate market realities.

Key Advice:

• “It’s not a sin to have a mortgage if it’s reasonable and you can pay it off fast. Put down as much as you can.” (George, 89:51)
• Realism: “You got to get in where you fit in. Buy what you can afford now—then upgrade later when your old house increases in value.” (Jade, 92:54)

Memorable Moment:

“You had one bad experience and it’s turned you off to the whole thing. If you just want to build, do it! But maybe you just need a better realtor.” — Jade, [89:11]

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6. Debt-Free Scream: $411,000 Paid Off!

[106:40 – 114:39]

• Brian & Tara from Clarksville, TN, join live to celebrate paying off $411k in debt across 8 years—student loans, cars, credit cards, and their mortgage.
• Income grew from $70k to $250k; they took side jobs, budgeted hard, and made sacrifices.
• Inspired by Tara’s sister, they “started chipping away” and kept at it, even as their family grew.

Key Lessons:

• Start, and start small: “Just chip away, every little bit counts.” (Brian, 111:48)
• “If we hadn’t got on the budget, we would never have been able to do it.” (Tara, 111:59)
• Celebrate milestones. They went on a cruise as a reward.

Notable Quote:

“People are afraid of the sacrifice. But I look at them and I’m like—they’re intact, their clothes don’t have holes in them… They’re fine.” — Jade, [115:10]

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Other Notable Calls & Themes

• Combining finances in marriage—often a root cause of division, resentment, and insecurity.
• Zero-percent credit cards: a trap for most people; living on less and spending consciously is the real solution.
  “Become your own line of credit with money you actually have—0% interest all day long.” (George, [64:03])
• Delayed gratification: “If you can be a crockpot in a world full of microwaves, you’ll build so much wealth.” (George, [115:51])
• Financial fun vs. fear: Even the ultra-successful manage anxiety about “spending too much” in retirement. Use the math and flex your spending “muscle.” ([70:25]–[74:06])
• Parental boundaries: Supporting kids’ dreams is good; creating dependency can stunt growth.

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

Tone:
Practical, tough-love, empathetic, with moments of humor and real vulnerability. George and Jade balance compassion (“that’s a tough spot, you’re not alone”) with accountability (“it’s time to set boundaries, change the pattern, and make some sacrifices”).

Key Takeaways:

• Don’t let family guilt or pressure compromise your financial future.
• In marriage, true unity requires full transparency and combined resources.
• Tackling debt requires a radical, focused approach—but it’s worth it for the freedom gained.
• Parent–child support should encourage independence and responsibility.
• It's okay (and often necessary) to make sacrifices, move, downsize, or make hard choices for the long-term good.
• Celebrate your wins—small and big!

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “No more debt, no more cosigning. Never again is the line in the sand you need to draw.” — Jade, [07:09]
• “You have a roommate that you signed a contract with, essentially… That’s not healthy.” — George, [15:27]
• “Your kids are living more lavishly than you… You’ve done more than enough.” — George, [25:15]
• “If you can be a crockpot in a world full of microwaves, you’ll build so much wealth.” — George, [115:51]
• “There’s dignity in going out and providing for yourself and hitting those milestones.” — Jade, [83:14]

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For listeners:
This episode is a rich tapestry of real-life money challenges—blending hard financial facts with relational, ethical, and emotional dilemmas. The consistent message: face hard truths, set boundaries, take bold action, and stick together for financial freedom.

Transcript

[Jade Warshaw]

Foreign.

[George Campbell]

To you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Ramsey personality Jade Warshaw. And we're taking your calls at 888-820-55225. Arlie's gonna kick us off in New York City. What's going on, Arlie?

[Caller]

Hello?

[George Campbell]

Did I get that right? Is it Arley?

[Caller]

Yes, it is.

[George Campbell]

What's happening?

[Caller]

So when I was around, like 20 to 21 years old, I had a pretty good credit score of like 800. And then my mom kind of guilt tripped me into being a co signer for one of her cars.

[George Campbell]

And.

[Caller]

And then the following year, there was a second car that I was unknowingly signed into when we refinanced the first car, and I think about two years after that, I've. Both cars have been repossessed and the first car was. There's a judgment on that car and it's under my name.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, boy.

[Caller]

And I guess. And there's also a personal loan that my mom kind of made me take out around the same time.

[George Campbell]

What do you mean, made you?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, what's that?

[George Campbell]

Are you against your will?

[Caller]

Like, well, she guilt tripped me into doing all of that.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, but you're, you're a grown person at 21 years old.

[Caller]

Yes, of course I, like, I understand that. But I guess like, culturally speaking, it was always, you can't.

[George Campbell]

Like, I've done so much for you. I need you to do this for me. And you just went, okay, fine.

[Caller]

Exactly. And it was like non stop. So essentially after all of this, we're like 20k in debt just on my mom alone. And I guess I'm trying to, like, figure out how to move on from one. Getting these two cars off of my name and like, you know, paying, I guess, paying it out.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Because I just recently got married and me and my husband haven't been able to join our account because of this major issue, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

And I like, how old are you now? Find a way. I'm 26.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So this has been a while back.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

But I think the repo just happened like about two years.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what are they coming after you for? For that. For. For both repos. Tell us the amount for both.

[Caller]

So the first car. Well, the major car was 10. 10,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

That's the deficit that you owe?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

After it got auctioned off.

[Jade Warshaw]

What about the second one?

[Caller]

The second one is 8,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So the good news is you're going to settle both of these. You're not going to pay the full amount because it's been forever. They'll be happy to get anything from you at this point.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

So you have any contact with your mom anymore?

[Caller]

We do, but unfortunately, I don't really trust anything she says, rightfully so. For the. So for the sole reason that January of last year of 2025, she actually, like, moved to another state. And we came to find out that she kind of owed a lot of people a lot of money. And it came to around like a total of like 50, close to 100. And just like personal loans, like under the table. And this year I kind of talked to her. Or end of last year I talked to her to try to settle the personal loans. Well, let's pay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's talk about. Let's talk about you.

[George Campbell]

Let's imagine, because she's not going to help you solve any of this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And your name's on the debt. And so they don't care about where she is. And if she's going to refine to her name, you just need to act like this is debt I took on and I got to clean the mess up.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's a learning experience. So I'd be looking to settle these for, you know, 50, 40 to 50% of the actual amount owed. That's what I'd start with. And so that would be your goal, to save up that cash. Because anytime you're going to settle the debt, you've got to have the cash in hand, ready. Lump sum. Yep. And you want to get it all, all those stipulations in writing, and you really want to laminate it and keep it forever because you never want these things to come back and bite you in the butt. How much is the personal loan? Is that another two or 3,000?

[Caller]

Yeah, 2,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so 2,000 on the personal loan. How much do you and your husband earn every month?

[Caller]

We. Every month would be about 6,7000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And is he on board in the idea that we're gonna clean up this mess, or do you feel like it's kinda on you to do it on your own?

[Caller]

I think personally, I don't want him to take on the burden.

[George Campbell]

Can I tell you this personally? I don't think you're gonna be able to clean this mess up on your own.

[Caller]

No, I know, but I think he does listen to The Ramsey show. So I do know that he'll be willing to settle this with me.

[Jade Warshaw]

If the tables were turned, would you be willing to help him? Of course. Okay, there you go. So as long as you know that you're not asking more of someone than you would want asked of yourself, then I think it's okay that you participate, that you receive that. If he's willing to do this with you, which I think he should, by.

[George Campbell]

The way, the hardest part is going to be swallowing your pride and going, you know what? I know I feel guilty and shame about this, but I'm going to bring him in. In because this is marriage.

[Caller]

Yeah. No, he actually helped me because when we first got married, we settled, I think, about 2,000 of credit card loans that my mom also racked up, so.

[George Campbell]

Oh, man. Okay. Has any of this been done fraudulently? She's not able to just like forge your signature. It sounds like you were there. You at least signed some documents on most of these loans.

[Caller]

So the. Like I said the first car was her car that she was driving and I was helping her.

[George Campbell]

You cosigned, so that one's legit.

[Caller]

I did. The second car, I didn't co sign. I did co sign, but what happened was when I went to the dealer, they told me it was a refinance. When it came out, like, I think six months down the line where we were getting like these late payments, they were telling me, oh, it's the car that I took out from my cousin. And you are cosigned. And I was like, I was never informed of this, but by then they told me it was too late to. To back out of it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Do you guys have any other debt outside of this 20k?

[Caller]

No. Student loan debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much? How much?

[Caller]

I. I have about 16k and my husband has about 9k.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, promise me. Make me a promise that you have learned your lesson. Not just. Not just in co signing, but really in borrowing money in general. Look how much heartache and pain this has caused. This is literally, and don't get me wrong, this is. If I were to assign blame, which I'm not usually in the habit of doing. But most of this is on your mother, okay? Because she. She was there. There is an im. Imbalance of power there. When you're 18, 21 years old, and a parent is saying, you need to do this, you need to do that, you do feel the overwhelming need that either they're right or that you should be listening to them, even if you shouldn't be. So I hate that. That happened. But this is such a learning opportunity for you. No more debt, no more co signing. You pay this off, never again is really the line in the sand that you need to draw.

[George Campbell]

Have you frozen your credit with all three bureaus, Arley?

[Caller]

No, I haven't.

[George Campbell]

You need to do that yesterday. And while you're at it, pull all, all three credit reports from the bureaus. You can go to annualcreditreport.com, do it for free, never pay for this. You need a full picture because who knows what else is out there before we can move forward and do this debt snowball and settle these debts. Let's get a real full picture of what's going on and freeze your credit so nobody, you or your mom can be opening up debt in your name ever again.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

Wishing you the best. This is not a fun situation, but I, I'm very confident you guys can clean this up if you combine your finances together and attack this as a. You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Barbara's in New York City up next. Barbara, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[George Campbell]

Absolutely. How can Jade and I help today?

[Caller]

So my question is, how can I convince my husband to combine our finances?

[George Campbell]

How long you been married?

[Caller]

We're coming up on 12 years.

[George Campbell]

That's a long time to now start this conversation.

[Jade Warshaw]

How Long have you been. How long have you been trying to do this?

[Caller]

So several years now. So when we got married, I made significantly less. And he actually purchased the house a few months before he proposed. So it's. And I really feel like it's his house. So that's the other part of the conversation. Trying to convince him to put my name on the date and all that and the mortgage, I feel like. And I bring it up every so often and say, hey, you know, maybe we should be doing this. I mean, I worked hard to better myself. So I once got married. I made about 35,000, which isn't very much. And then why does it matter if.

[George Campbell]

You made a dollar or 100,000 dol.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm. I'm shook by that. I feel like this is like you're trying to prove that you're worthy of being next to his name by you getting yourself together.

[George Campbell]

Did he set a benchmark? Like, hey, once you hit 50 grand, then we'll talk.

[Caller]

I kind of feel like we have to be equal in terms of how we. How much we earn, because.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why.

[Caller]

Right. I don't. That's the footing we got off on. He divided up the bills based on the percentage of what we make. So. So based on how much I made, I covered the bills according to that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so on. And, you know, slowly, I've increased what I contribute, you know, household repairs and all that stuff.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right, right. So this is really, really, really unhealthy. I'm sorry, but it is. And I think you're right. You guys got off. You got off on the wrong foot, and it just set the tone for the next 12 years. And it started to. You started to believe that. That you. Yeah, you are your percentage, and you're worth whatever percentage you're contributing and vice versa. And that is going to take a lot of time to tear down, Honestly, it sounds like kind of in both of you, because I think you're starting to see, yeah, I need to. We probably should do this. But it's also like, you're fighting that old mentality. So when you bring it to him and you say, this is. I feel like this is destroying our marriage, and here's how. And it's making me feel less than. And I'm just scared that this is going to drive us further and further apart. Heart, what's his response?

[Caller]

He gets defensive, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

And are you saying it's on him, or are you saying we both did this thing?

[Caller]

I. You know, thinking back, I'm probably putting a little too much on him. Like, hey, we. Because. Because it feels like everything belongs to him. The house belongs to him.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you also participated in that. So I think approaching it, you know, approaching it in the way of we set out. And this is honestly probably exactly along the lines of what I would say if I were in your shoes. Twelve years ago, we got married. We decided that this is how we were going to do finances, and I agreed to that. It made sense to me, and I have participated in that for. For 12 years. And in the past couple of years, I've really started seeing that. It's not. It feels like it's driving us apart. And you may not be aware of it on your end, but it's something I'm sensing, and I just feel like it's. If we don't address it, it's gonna get worse and worse. And I would love for us to talk about ways that we can change the way we're viewing money to where there's complete transparency. We're both equal, and we're both, you know, a part of it, and maybe that will open him up to go, okay, she's. She's trying to. She's trying to come towards me. She's not trying to say this at me and tell me that it's my fault.

[Caller]

Right? Yeah. Yeah. I think. Yeah. Probably without meaning to, making it sound like it's all on him.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

That can go a long way. Listen, even if it was on. All on him, I think there's just a long way.

[George Campbell]

There's things that he is not telling you, and I don't know if this is coming out of, you know, baggage he had growing up with money, why he wants control, why he wants to protect himself. Did he have a previous marriage? What do you think is behind this?

[Caller]

Well, I honestly don't know entirely. I know his parents went through a bad marriage, and I don't know if that's part of it, but it does feel like he's very guarded with his money and he wants to protect it, and he's, you know, he's got businesses and he buys cars, whatever, and how often he wants, and it's got. I don't have a say in it because it's his money. And, you know.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, you have a. You have a roommate that you signed a contract with, essentially. And I'm sorry, that's not fun. It's not healthy. And I don't know if I. I'm not here to define someone as a narcissist, but it's giving narcissist it's giving emotional abuse and he's making you feel less than you own nothing and you should be lucky. You get to live in my house.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's not good. Do you have kids?

[Caller]

No, we don't. We. I became nervous early on and decided not to and he went right along with it. So we agreed together, but I guess we didn't agree. It was more like I was apprehensive and he's like, whatever you want.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay. So no children to speak of. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

This is my guess. He would never agree to go to counseling with you, would he?

[Caller]

No, no. I've asked.

[George Campbell]

Can you go on your own or what? Do you have to ask him for permission for allowance money to go?

[Caller]

I've been going. I go on my own and.

[George Campbell]

Good.

[Caller]

I haven't brought this situation up, though.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why not?

[Caller]

I talk about everything else.

[George Campbell]

This would be the number one situation I would bring up.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

This is the main thing in your life right now when you're calling us for advice on this. I don't know how to convince your husband because I don't know that he can be convinced at this point because he has convinced himself that he is the king of the house and you should be lucky to live in his castle.

[Jade Warshaw]

And honestly, there seems like there's no bent. There hasn't been any consequence for his action, for lack of a better word. It's kind of like he gets to do whatever he wants and there's no. Nothing comes back on him as a reason to change.

[Caller]

Nope. I guess I felt like it was just a money issue.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, it's not. It's barely a money issued issue. He's not seeing you as a person, a full person who's contributing and valuable and all the things that he should see you as.

[George Campbell]

Think about it. This marriage, any relationship is built on two things, trust and respect.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And you don't have either of those from him. And I don't know that you ever did. I don't know how this marriage started and how we got here, but you need a reset conversation with him and use eye statements and make it about you and say, listen, I want better for us. I want unity in this marriage. I didn't sign up to be a roommate here. I want transparency. Not because I don't trust you, but because I think I deserve a vote. And for too long I felt like I didn't. What would he say to that? Would he get defensive and shut down? Yes, I think that's very telling, Barbara, of what your next step should Be.

[Jade Warshaw]

How are you doing? Like, let's talk about it the way you guys talk about it, which is your finances are separate. How are you doing financially?

[Caller]

I'm doing much better. I've, you know, worked hard to increase my own income, and I have, you know, money set aside, and I, you know, I listen, you guys, and I set up my savings and, you know, six months and all that, and I invest in my 401k and all that. But just talking about that, like, just thinking about it, I'm, like, just listening to you guys, I do kind of just feel like a house sitter.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

You know, I rightfully so.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, for all intents and purposes, that's kind of the placement you guys have put you in.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's totally fine that you are saying this is not okay and I'm not gonna do this anymore. And if I were in your shoes, you know, I'm no counselor, that's for sure. But if I were in your shoes, I'd be making some pretty strong statements about what I am and not gonna do and what I am and not gonna put up with.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know what I'm saying?

[George Campbell]

Like, I, I, I'm not sure he's seen Barbara's backbone, and I think he's.

[Jade Warshaw]

About to see it for someone who's been offered counseling, for someone who's been offered the opportunity to sit down and talk for compromise, and they've turned away all of that. Now I'm going to tell you what I'm about to do and what my terms are, and that's, that's what I would do. I'd be like, okay, enough is enough. And here you're about to see the smoke.

[George Campbell]

And Barbara, great exercise for you is think about if this was your friend and she called you and said, hey, this is my situation. What would you honestly tell that friend? Maybe write down a journal tonight as if you're writing a letter to that friend, and then read it back to yourself and go, oh, this is for me. These are the steps I need to go take because I deserve that. You deserve to live a life. You don't deserve to be in a prison with this guy.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And so I don't know that we can change him, but I do know that you can make some changes for yourself, and that might be the healthiest move for what's next. I'm so sorry you're going through. Most people just drift through life with their money. No plan, no budget, stuck on autopilot. But winning with money is intentional. That's why I love Fairwinds Credit Union. They've built tools for people who don't want gimmicks or games. Their Smart Bundle includes a high yield savings account to help your emergency fund grow. And their spend smart checking account won't nickel and dime you to death with fees like other banks. Plus, it comes with the Ramsey Be Weird debit card, which says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front of it. It keeps you connected to your budget. And every time you use it, it's a reminder you control your money, not the other way around. Fairwinds Credit Union is for people who are serious about taking control of their money. So if you're ready to stop drifting and start building wealth on purpose, open your Smart Bundle today at Fairwinds.org Ramsey that's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[Jade Warshaw]

Foreign.

[George Campbell]

If you have a simple tax situation like you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, check out Ramsey Smart Tax. It's affordable, it keeps filing simple, and it has built in support in case you need a little help. And filing early means getting the best deals and you get that tax stress off your shoulders. So as soon as you get all your tax documents, go to ramseysolutions.com smart tax and start filing. And guess what, Jade, what's up? Guess what I'm doing on Valentine's Day.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't want to know, George.

[George Campbell]

Getting my taxes done with my tax pro.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's not what I expected.

[George Campbell]

We're going on a date after.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm mad at, I'm mad at you for this.

[George Campbell]

All the restaurants are booked up, but my tax guy was free. And I said, all right, let's make it a date.

[Jade Warshaw]

I need to text Whitney. Give me your number.

[George Campbell]

Say she deserves better. Don't worry, we're gonna get get some chips and margaritas after.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right? There you go.

[George Campbell]

All right. Lisa is in Hartford, Connecticut. Up next. What's going on?

[Caller]

Lisa, Hi.

[George Campbell]

How can we help today?

[Caller]

I am 58 years old. I have $60,000 worth of state tax debt. I have $60,000 Worth of credit card debt. I'm a single mom with two college age kids and I am trying to figure out if I should file for bankruptcy. I have another $10,000 that I owe the IRS. I came to a settlement with them, so I guess it's about now $70,000 in total tax debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

How did that happen?

[Caller]

Well, I, I'm a single mom and when I got divorced, I didn't make smart decisions with My alimony. I tried to keep my kids, like, in the same, you know, like, I didn't. I didn't make any changes. I wanted that. I didn't want them to feel like the divorce.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I lived way beyond my means. I also went into recovery, so I was, you know, kind of white knuckling raising them. And I did a lot of spending out of, like, parental guilt, trying to, like, make up for time that I'd lost.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, okay, okay, Understood. So what. What's the. What's the case now? What are you doing for work? What are you earning?

[Caller]

I have. I have a great job. I make about $105,000 as an administrative assistant.

[Jade Warshaw]

Great.

[Caller]

I have a side like I have. I also work for the same family at a farm on the weekends. So I have a little potential to make extra income, but I'm drowning because I can't, you know, like my, you know, I just. Just got the Dollars app to figure out what's going wrong when I'm spending more than I can afford, you know, in even the basic things.

[Jade Warshaw]

What is your rent?

[Caller]

It's $3,500.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, girlfriend. And you're born.

[George Campbell]

Are you bringing home like six or seven? What's the take home pay?

[Caller]

My take home is 66. Yeah. 6,600 and then another thousand approximately when I do my other job.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, okay, okay. So, yeah, this is the problem. The rent is. Have you looked into things that. I mean, you're in Hartford. That's an expensive area. Have you looked into other options? I mean, what are you living in right now? What is the nature of your house? Is it two bedroom?

[Caller]

What is it right now? Yeah, I'm in a two bedroom apartment. I moved out of, like, the town I raised my kids in, and I moved into a less expensive area, but it's still very expensive. I'm currently looking like I was trying to keep. You know, one of my kids has graduated, but one of my kids still comes home. And I still had that need to, like, have a bedroom for her.

[Jade Warshaw]

You can hold on. Yeah, you got to stop.

[George Campbell]

It's an air mattress in the living room.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. You got to stop this mess. Because that. That feeling of having to. Everything all right for them is what got you in $130,000 of debt. So you gotta stop today. They're grown. They love you. You don't have to prove it. It's inherent. Okay.

[George Campbell]

Cause here's the truth. You being a burden because they have to cover mom's expenses for the rest of her life. Cause she's broke. Is so much worse.

[Jade Warshaw]

Come on, George.

[George Campbell]

Than them sleeping on an air mattress. Cause mom can't afford $3,500 in rent, which is totally reasonable.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's your commute right now? And how far can we get you out of town to get this?

[Caller]

Yes, I think right now is great. Like I'm. I'm 10 minutes from my job.

[Jade Warshaw]

This is the problem. Yeah, we gotta get you out into the country where. Where rent is a thousand dollars a month for a one bedroom.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And I'm. I'm laughing, but I'm being serious. Your rent is going to keep you from freedom here. So your first order of business. While everybody else is going out for Valentine's Day, you're gonna be on the computer searching for a new place. When's your lease up?

[Caller]

It's up in June.

[George Campbell]

Okay, perfect.

[Jade Warshaw]

Perfect. Yeah, it is perfect. That gives you time to find the spot. It gives you time to tell your kids, hey, we're moving. And that's wonderful.

[George Campbell]

Think about it. You went down to 1500 instead of 3500. That's two grand a month you could be throwing at your debt.

[Caller]

That's. That's. I've been looking for an apartment. I have been looking. I've downsized my look to one bedroom apartment. And there's. I think you're right. I think I have to expand my commute distance because I'm still hitting a wall with prices.

[Jade Warshaw]

You have to. It's a must.

[George Campbell]

If it's this or bankruptcy, I'll take a 20 minute commute. A 25 minute commute. Because that bankruptcy will destroy your financial life. At least for the next seven years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Which puts you into your mid-60s by the time you can even recover.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now, what. What about your car? Do you have a car payment?

[Caller]

I have. I have a. I have. I own my car. I'm making my son's car payment right now.

[George Campbell]

No, no, Lisa.

[Jade Warshaw]

Your name is not on it.

[Caller]

Graduated. I know. He just gr.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is your name on it?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

What? Why? Why? Why? Why? Okay, so this is fun.

[George Campbell]

Then you get to say, hey, son, I gotta sell this car.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Hope you enjoyed driving it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Tell them it was basically a rental. Hope you enjoyed driving the rental.

[Jade Warshaw]

George has never been more right. But you have to do it right. How much is the car worth?

[Caller]

I. It's 17,000 maybe.

[Jade Warshaw]

And how much do you owe on it?

[Caller]

It's lease. So the car, the car that he has is.

[George Campbell]

Oh no, that's even worse. Cuz you can't get out of this thing unless you have the lump sum to do a full.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

When's the lease?

[Caller]

Or he could take the payments over.

[Jade Warshaw]

He could. When is it up?

[Caller]

I have to look. I'm not sure. I think it's another year.

[George Campbell]

Is he working?

[Caller]

He just started a job. He just started an internship.

[Jade Warshaw]

So, yes. Okay. So I would have that conversation. I'd say, son, I made a mistake and I'm really sorry. I. Because it's going to affect both of us. I agreed to pay this lease. I can't afford it. I'm over here struggling. This lease is good for one more year. We either need to. You either need to take this on completely. If you can't afford it, I'll pay whatever little bitty portion that you can't afford to pay. But this is going to. And put it in George's words, if I don't fix myself now, I will end up being a burden to you later on in a greater way. And I don't want that. And hopefully he can understand that. But yeah, the tables, the way we've been doing life with money and kids has to change today. And I'm glad that you called in because I think that you're starting to understand that. But I can't stress that these are not going to be. They're easy to understand, not easy to do.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So here's the math on this. If you say, you said you make about 7,500amonth if you keep the side job, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Are you doing any investing right now?

[Caller]

No. A little bit to my 401k, but I stopped that.

[George Campbell]

Good. Let's pause all investing to clean this mess up so that we can actually retire one day. That's the goal. And right now, investing is not helping us get rid of the mess. So let's say you could, you know, you make 7,500 and you lived on 4,000. That's fair. If you move this, if you switch your renting situation, that frees up 3,500 bucks a month to throw a debt. Right. With 130 grand in debt, you're done in about 37 months, three years.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And that's if you do no other changes. If you can just cut your rent down and throw that amount of the debt, we're done in three years. I think you can do even better with this. With your. You're very talented, you have a lot of high skilled. You know, you have a lot of high skills. I would use that to your advantage. Live on as little as you can for two years, let's say your 60th birthday. Let's celebrate you becoming debt free. How cool would that be?

[Caller]

That would be amazing. Really amazing.

[George Campbell]

It's possible. I mean, you can crunch the numbers and go, all right, this is the margin I need. I need $4,000 a month come hell or high water to be throwing at this debt. And then do the debt snowball. Knock out the smallest balance first for you. The IRS debt goes to the top because they can really screw up your life and garnish your wages. So I would attack that, but once you're done with that, just debt snowball it, whatever. The smallest card balances, attack that first minimum payments on the rest.

[Caller]

Okay, you can do this. Making my minimum, keeping my minimum payments.

[George Campbell]

Yes. Don't get behind on anything if you can help it.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm already a little bit behind on a lot of the payments.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is anything in collections credit card wise?

[Caller]

No, not one credit card is actually. Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so go ahead and settle that one.

[George Campbell]

Just try to get current on everything and then attack the irs. Debt, then debt, snowball the rest. That's your goal. So we're going to cover four walls, basic food, utilities, housing, transportation, insurance. And then beyond that, we are living like broke college kids because right now your kids are living more lavishly than you are. Yeah, that's pretty wild. Like I think college kids should be broke. That's the stage of life. Not a 58 year old woman who's trying to provide for them. So you have done more than enough. You don't need to earn your kids love by going deeper and deeper into debt. Right? Okay. You got this, Lisa. We're cheering you on. I'm gonna give you every dollar, premium version to connect your bank accounts. Have all the transactions come through because you make great money. It's time to put every dollar to work cleaning up this mess.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, Dave, you know on the show all the time we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know?

[George Campbell]

Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used. Unless you got a million dollars, we don't buy new cars. And if you're gonna buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular, proper maintenance.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no brainer. And they've been absolutely Great.

[George Campbell]

We're excited to recognize Christian Brothers as the official auto repair partner of the Ramsey Show. Christian Brothers keeps things simple, honest and transparent. Every repair is backed by their nationwide nice difference warranty. Three years or 36,000 miles, whichever helps you more.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, Dave, I'm first to admit I'm not in into cars like you are. But the thing about Christian Brothers is I feel just as confident going in there. They're not trying to upsell me. I feel 100% confident that I'm going to get the service that I need.

[George Campbell]

Hey, if you want your car to last and stay on track with the baby steps, trust Christian brothers. Go to cbac.comramsey to find your local shop schedule service and get an exclusive Ramsey discount. 10% off your visit up to $250.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's cbac.com ramsc store for details.

[George Campbell]

The Ramsey show question of the day is sponsored by Wirefi. If your private student loans are in default and other lenders said no, why refi could be your next step. Yrefi was built for this situation, helping borrowers refinance with a low fixed rate and an affordable payment so you can get back to winning with money. Check out yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Jade Warshaw]

Alrighty. Today's question comes from Kyle in Florida. He says, I'm going to be a new dad soon and want to do everything I can to set my son up for success. We plan on opening a trump account for him and contribute $5,000 a year. How can we avoid a mindset of entitlement in our son if this account has hundreds of thousands of dollars in it when he turns 18? We'd like to reinforce the idea that we did not set up this account to squander the money away on ridiculous material purchases every 18 year old dreams about. What's the best way to set up boundaries on how this money can be used?

[George Campbell]

That's a great question.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's a really great question. And there's kind of two sides of it, George. The first side I'm seeing is just raising a child in the way that he should go, right? Like there's, there's what, what you're teaching him about money in the next 18 years is really huge. And then there's the side of is this really the best option for you? Do you want to have control over that money or do you want him to receive this money at 18? So there's kind of the, the strategy side of how is it smart for him to re. To receive that kind of money at 18. So let's talk about both. I'll kind of start with the, the raising side. I think whatever you show your kids the most is what they're going to pick up on and they're going to learn. And so if you've created a lifestyle where we don't squander things in our home and we're very thoughtful about our purchases and we don't buy things to impress other people, your child is going to pick up on that. So a lot of that is due diligence on your part. Now, when it comes to the Trump accounts, you know, if you want to participate, I suppose you can. It. It's not, it's not what I do. I do 529s for my kids, and we also have a brokerage account that we know we're going to gift money to them out of when. When we're ready to help with things like down payments and things like that. So that's how we do it. What do you do, George?

[George Campbell]

So I actually looked into this and I realized there's not a whole lot of advantages outside of the free thousand dollars if your child is born and 25 through 28. So I had a kid in 2025. I will happily take $1,000 from the government because I've given much more to them.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's great.

[George Campbell]

And so I'll take that free thousand for my little guy and grow. I will not be contributing more than that because to your point, at 18, they get control if it's a Trump account.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And they don't need hundreds of thousands of dollars at age 18.

[George Campbell]

And you hope they're going to go, I'm going to use this for a down payment. Or you don't, but you don't know. Yeah. And we don't know exactly how they're going to guard against you using it for other things. They haven't been super clear about what you can use it for. Well, that's outside of education. And a down payment, that's actually a.

[Jade Warshaw]

Major difference that I want to talk about. You know, you look at things like Roth IRAs or custodial accounts or 520, they're established like it is, is what it is with these Trump accounts because it's tied to. It has the ability to change over time. It's not locked in and what it will be and what it can change into. And I think that's something worth noting. But yeah, I'm the type of parent. I want control. I don't want you ending up with a hundred thousand dollars or $500,000 at age 18. I want to have the control.

[George Campbell]

You remember us at 18? No. 18 year old is. Their prefrontal cortex isn't baked yet.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, I was not it.

[George Campbell]

These are the same kids taking out 250,000 do for degrees that they don't need.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

That's not good. Let's not give them that control. So I do exactly what Jade says. I got a 529 plan for education. I'm funding that. And then for other needs outside of education, I go with the taxable brokerage account in my name that I can.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

And then I can gift that money when I believe they are ready to handle it.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

So if it's. I want to cover the wedding. Great. I can take that money out and I can pay for the wedding. If it's their first car.

[Caller]

Car.

[George Campbell]

I have control over that. Of what car I choose to buy for them.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's right.

[George Campbell]

Thing with a down payment, if you want to gift them a house, I want to be able to control that. And so I think that's very wise to do. And I'm not mad at the Trump accounts. I just don't think it's all it's cracked up to be. But I love that it's starting the conversation about investing for your kids at an earlier age.

[Jade Warshaw]

It is. And you have up to $18,000 per parent per child per year that you can give without really any.

[George Campbell]

Without having to fill out the gift tax.

[Jade Warshaw]

Exactly.

[George Campbell]

Form. And so that's. That's a great way to go as well. And the exemption is now, if you're a married couple, it's like million dollars. Your gift, your estate exemption. So not something most people have to worry about hitting. So. Great question, Kyle. I would. If you want to do this, I would contribute to the taxable brokerage account. And if your child can get the free thousand bucks, I would absolutely take that and let it ride. Because even a thousand bucks from 0 to 60 don't even tell them it exists. I mean, they'll know it exists when they turn 18 and they're like sweet free money.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Maybe that's for the first car.

[Jade Warshaw]

That'll be fine. That's right. Perfect.

[George Campbell]

All right, let's go to Quentin in Lincoln, Nebraska. What's going on? Hey, guys.

[Caller]

I appreciate y' all taking my call.

[George Campbell]

Sure.

[Caller]

So just keep it short. I have just found out that my girlfriend, who I've been planning to propose to, is pregnant and we're expecting twins.

[Jade Warshaw]

Whoa.

[Caller]

So, yeah, you know, blessing. Absolutely.

[George Campbell]

I.

[Caller]

But. But I'm concerned about. I'm on baby step two doing the debt snowball. I'm financially concerned that with these two coming that we're going to be in a bad spot if I continue to put everything into the debt snowball. I'm wondering if maybe I should put a little bit more into savings instead. And what your guys thoughts are on that?

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, yes, I would probably pause all getting out of debt behavior because this is a storm and a stork. This is storm boat and storm. What. What's the plan going forward? Was this somebody that you were thinking could be the one or did this. Was this really just like.

[Caller]

Yeah, this was a very big surprise. It's. It's funny because for months I've been planning. We're taking a trip to Florida next week and I have a ring.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

So we're gonna do.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So, you know, I wanted to do marriage and everything before kids and then come to find out, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, the good news is this was someone that you were thinking about that you knew you wanted to spend your life with. It wasn't just like I was dating this girl and. Oh.

[George Campbell]

And yeah, we knew she wasn't one.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so this is.

[George Campbell]

So you're still gonna propose next week?

[Caller]

Yes, that's the plan.

[George Campbell]

Good. All right. Okay. So that it just kind of expedites things if I was in your shoes. Let's propose. Let's hope she says yes. I assume she will. And then let's get married. Let's do a courthouse wedding and then we'll do a big party to celebrate later because right now we're broke with a baby on the way. The party can wait. But I think it is wise if you were already planning on getting married, let's go ahead and speed that process up because we. We've been doing some. Some things backwards. Now, as you said you didn't want it to happen in this order, but here we are, right? So let's move forward with a pile of savings and when baby and mom. Babies and mom are home safe, then we can hit play on the debt snowball. And hopefully you don't have to touch that pile of money and you'll have a bunch to throw at those debts.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you both do for work?

[Caller]

I. I'm a union plumber and she is. She works in a daycare right now, but she will be staying home when we have the kids. And that was kind of the second part of the question is, you know, with her being in debt and her staying home, marriage was obviously going to be an option. And as you guys are saying it, do it sooner than later, but then I'll be taking on her debts as well. And so that's where, you know, it's.

[George Campbell]

Going to take like a decade to pay this off. If it's all on you.

[Caller]

Well, I mean, kind of feels like it. You know, I make decent money and.

[George Campbell]

I, I, what do you make and what's the total debts?

[Caller]

I'm at 110 last year on my W2s and total debt combined is about 26, 27. Oh, great.

[Jade Warshaw]

We can do that.

[George Campbell]

You can knock that out fast within a year, maybe even less even with just your income.

[Caller]

Right. And that's where.

[Jade Warshaw]

And now.

[Caller]

So I just downloaded the every dollar and it looked like, you know, I was going to get one of the big ones off right before a due.

[George Campbell]

Good.

[Caller]

But then, you know, that's where I'm, I'm. Now I'm like, I don't know if I should.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. But. No, no, no. But you knowing that you're stacking up that money and knowing that the day these babies come home and they're safe and they're, they're healthy, knowing that you can take that money and then knock out that, that, that debt is fabulous. So it's just peace of mind sitting there waiting for you.

[George Campbell]

Are your expenses pretty low?

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, mortgage, you know, we're looking at 1400. And after that, you know, cars are paid off, house.

[George Campbell]

Great.

[Jade Warshaw]

What about insurance? Health insurance?

[Caller]

Health insurance is all union. So that comes out before my take home.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And do you know what the out of pocket max is or like what the deductible is? Because you're going to need that possibly.

[Caller]

I want to say it's a, it's a 5,000 deductible. But if we add her on, I'm not, I'm not 100. I haven't looked into that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I check into that. I always like to advise people to have that number saved up going in because again, you never know what could happen. And it could be very easy in certain situations to hit that deductible and have to shell out that money or even worse, you know, out of pocket max for the year.

[George Campbell]

But if your expenses are pretty low, you can throw four grand a month into savings. Seven months from now, you have all the money to pay off the debt and as soon as they're home and healthy, throw it at the debt and we're debt free, man. Best of luck. Finally, mortgage rates have dropped and you know what that means. People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their Home Buyer Edge program gives you peace of mind. In a wild market, you can cap your rate for 90 days, so if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre approval. It makes you look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com to get started today. That's ChurchillMortgage. This is a paid advertisement. Home Buyer Edge and Seller guarantee are available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and not available in all states or locations. NMLS ID 1591 nmlsconsumeraccess.org/al housing lender. Welcome back to the Ramsey show and the Fair Winds Credit Union Union Studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw and we're taking Your calls at 888-255-225. Jason is with us in Indianapolis. What's going on?

[Caller]

Jason hey, thanks for taking my call. So the most basic level of this question is for about a 10 year period my wife and I need to live in separate cities. I'll be snow burning and coming back seasonally. She'll come out to where I want to be as she's able. So the but the most basic how do we pull this off?

[Jade Warshaw]

Why is it necessary? Tell us about what you're trying to accomplish.

[George Campbell]

Sure.

[Caller]

We're from the Indianapolis area. We spent about three years in Arizona during the COVID years and when we moved back to Indianapolis for some elder care and family responsibilities, Covid has had a serious impact on my health. All the specialists I've been treating with not very effective. What has worked for me is the climate back in Arizona. My conditions continue to worsen and so I need to be out there for relief. My wife has a once in a Lifetime career with a large Indianapolis employer and has a pension that we're really going to need come retirement. And the family reasons still exist for her.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so is, how much, is how much do you guys earn?

[Caller]

Combined we make about 160. And she has some potential for bonus, but we don't really think about that.

[Jade Warshaw]

What makes her job a once in a lifetime opportunity? Because when, when you said that, I'm thinking that you're gonna hit me with the fact that she's making crazy money.

[Caller]

Well, she's making crazy money for the way we grew up, but she works for a big pharma here, has a phenomenal job with her position was eliminated. They allowed her to come back as though she had no lost time and resume her pension where she left off.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Finding employers in this area with a pension, not great. We're beyond the part about where I think she should go with me and we should have one home. That's a focus on the family discussion that we continue to have.

[George Campbell]

When you say family, are we talking kids? Like parents?

[Caller]

Her father in law, I'm sorry, my father in law. Her father has dementia. We're here to help her brother and his wife with elder care. And then there are children having babies and so we've got grandchildren too. And you know, it's a difficult situation because the crux of this is my health and it's not improving. And there's something to be said for I'm not living and contributing positively to the family dynamic until I get better.

[Jade Warshaw]

Where would the majority of the time be spent? Would you be, or let me ask this in a better way, would you be living in Arizona basically indefinitely and you're just making trips to Indianapolis to visit her, where she's living in Indianapolis, then making trips to visit you? Like it's too. You're spending the majority of time in your separate cities? Or is it kind of like we go over here, then we go over there?

[Caller]

Right. So my employer, I work remotely and would have the flexibility to be back in Indiana during the lowest migraine season, which would typically be the summer.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you'd only be there summer.

[George Campbell]

Oh, boy.

[Caller]

Typically, yeah. She would come out to see me when she can, I would come back here when I can. It doesn't preclude that I wouldn't come out other times, but in terms of the biggest amount of time, it would be summertimes. And this would be for a 10 year period when she plans to fully retire. And the way I'm wired, I'll always have to work to keep my brain busy.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let me tell you, let me tell you what I'm thinking right here. And again, this is a decision you guys are going to make. But the two things that pop up to me is 10 years is a very, very long time. And a lot of times what I'm, what I'm hearing here is several variables that are very important and that you're trying to hang on to every single variable, but they're not all, they're not all serving you in this, in, in, in the, in the right way. Okay. There's, there's the aging kids or I'm sorry, the aging parents, there's the grandkids, there's the dream job, there's the health issue. So there's all these things. I really truly think that you're going to have to force, rank, rank the top two most important things and make the decisions around that. If everything is important, your marriage goes down the drain. I just don't see how you can do this financially because I would never hang on to a job simply for a pension number one, especially at the detriment of you having to spend 10 years like, you know, back and forth. Then there's the part of, there's the elder care, but you said the, it sounded like you said the sister in.

[George Campbell]

Law and her husband, some other siblings.

[Jade Warshaw]

Involved and so why wouldn't we use our flights? Why wouldn't we. And this is just an option. I'm not saying you have to do this. Why wouldn't we everybody move to AZ or and she gets a job there in Arizona and then you take flights back to visit the grandkids or you take flights back to visit the aging parents. That feels more balanced than the solution that we, that you're presenting. There may be more to it that I know nothing about, but I think the number one priorities here have to be you staying alive and healthy and you being, keeping your marriage in a state where it can be healthy. And I think that has to go. As painful as that is, I think that has to go above the aging parents and the dementia and the grandkids.

[Caller]

Completely agree. That's been my preference all along. I'm up against some resistance and some different interpretations of rank and responsibility, forms of obedience. And so this is kind of the desperation, throwdown of we've had this discussion multiple times and I'm finally at a point physically and mentally where I have to start making a decision about my health.

[Jade Warshaw]

Understood.

[Caller]

Long term. And so that's, that's the rest of the dynamic.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So you're just saying, yeah, I gotta live, I'm gonna do this. Hopefully there's a way we can work it out out to where this works.

[George Campbell]

Do you guys combine finances right now?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so the answer to your question, just to make sure we at least hit that, is how do you afford it? You're going to need to find affordable housing in Arizona and that might just mean renting for now. I don't know that I would go buy a house just for you. I would just rent affordably in the area. And then do you guys have a mortgage in Indianapolis?

[Caller]

Currently we do. The, the other piece to this is it's a larger house than we needed. We did get a good deal because of some family connection. So it's going to be a big asset at retirement. But we are taking in a rentor that will help reduce the mortgage. And we've done that before sporadically. My intent was to start renting and then see later if I would end up in the condo that we would ultimately retire in. Because renting for 10 years doesn't seem to be terribly wise.

[Jade Warshaw]

What happens at the end of 10 years? Is that kind of the time where you think aging parents might not be part of the picture? What, what's what denotes 10 years.

[Caller]

10 years is when we're both 55. She plans to stay with this employer and retire at 65. And then we spend the rest of our life out there.

[Jade Warshaw]

So really it's.

[Caller]

There has been the plan all along.

[Jade Warshaw]

At retirement, but it really is then now. Now we're seeing where the real priority is. It really is with the job, not the aging and parents dementia, those other factors. But yeah, those were things to start.

[George Campbell]

If you took the pension out of the pen picture, what would you do? Cuz I think she can get a great job in pharma making six figures and you guys can build your own wealth over a decade instead of hanging on to all of this just for a pension while your marriage is down the drain.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And so those are some real hard things to consider. I know your health is paramount. You got to take care of yourself. But I don't like the options that we have thus far. You already know the power of generosity. And the best gifts make an impact now and eternally. That's what preborn does. And you can trust them to do it. Well, they don't just offer free ultrasounds. They support pregnancy clinics across the country with ultrasound machines, training grants and evangelism tools. They're faithful with each dollar. So moms in crisis can see the light in their wombs and hear the truth that brings eternal life. Because here's the thing, when a mom sees her baby on that ultrasound screen, she chooses life 80% of the time. And your gift of just $28 covers the cost of one ultrasound. Or if you're able, you can purchase an ultrasound machine through preborn and have it placed in one of their clinics. So women will choose life for years. Your donation brings hope and truth when mothers feel alone and fear is lost. So I'm asking you to give to preborn today even just $28 to provide one ultrasound. Go to preborn.com Ramsey or call 855-601-2229. Because every baby saved is more than a life preserved. It's a life changed. That's preborn.com. Sarah is in Boston, Massachusetts. What's going on, Sarah?

[Caller]

Hey you guys, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

[George Campbell]

What's going on?

[Caller]

Well, my question is, is it unwise for me to move out of my mom's home while paying off my debt? Ah.

[George Campbell]

How old are you?

[Caller]

Well, I'm 41.

[George Campbell]

How long you been living there?

[Caller]

I've been back home since November of 2024.

[George Campbell]

Okay, what happened that got you back into her house?

[Caller]

My dad was sick and had passed away, so I wanted to go home and be able to be there for him while he was alive and be able to help where I could. And then he had passed away in February 2025.

[George Campbell]

I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[George Campbell]

Did you move your whole life there? What like job and everything kind of relocate?

[Caller]

Yes, pretty much. I was in Colorado. I was an apartment, I was at a full time job. I was a part time job as well. I was doing okay. This happened, I just really felt led to come home. So I literally sold everything I could, get what I could, my car and went back home to Massachusetts.

[George Campbell]

How much debt do you have?

[Caller]

Have? Actually it's about 52,000.

[George Campbell]

What kind is that? Break it down for us.

[Caller]

Yep. So I have student loan debt. It's around 33,000. I have a vehicle that I own and it's a little over $14,000. And then I have putting out credit, credit cards, card debt, around 4,000.

[George Campbell]

Okay, and what do you make?

[Caller]

Currently I make at my full time, I make about 70,000 and then I have a part time job. Roughly. I don't know what I make annually there. It does change because it's part time. So roughly, I would say I take home about $4,500 a month between jobs.

[Jade Warshaw]

4,500.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. You know, if you were. So it's been about a year since your loss. How's your mom doing?

[Caller]

She's doing okay. It's a different situation. It's actually. They were, they're actually divorced. They were, they've been divorced for years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

She was where I came home. I couldn't stay with my stepmom and my dad, so I stayed with her.

[Jade Warshaw]

I see, I see, I see.

[Caller]

But she's doing okay. But it is a different circumstance.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So the purpose of you moving in with your mom was to be there for your dad? It didn't seem like the purpose of that was to pay off debt. Because you had the same debt when you were in Colorado with the apartment.

[Caller]

Yes, yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

What caused you to not get ahead on the debt? Was it you just didn't have a mind to pay it off yet or you didn't have the margin?

[Caller]

Do you mean when I was in Colorado?

[Jade Warshaw]

Uhhuh.

[Caller]

When I was in Colorado I just didn't have the margin. I mean I just paid as best I could.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

But I just didn't have the margin.

[Jade Warshaw]

So do you think that if you moved out and got yourself in something nice, you know, a fine one bedroom apartment, somewhere around a thousand, you know, eleven hundred bucks a month, you would have the margin to do it at that point?

[Caller]

I don't believe I have the margin in this area. It's hard to even find a room sometimes.

[George Campbell]

Are you in the city proper or are you in a sub suburb?

[Caller]

I'm suburb.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And do you work remotely or is it in person?

[Caller]

In person.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So I'm wondering, you know, how far of a commute could we handle to get somewhere that's a little less expensive? Can you tell me the air. I'm from that area. I'm just curious, what kind of area are we talking about where it's super expensive in the suburbs because it can range metro west. Okay.

[Caller]

Metro west area.

[George Campbell]

I would look and see how. What kind of place could I get for just a one bedroom on my own. And here's why I think think it's. It's hard to not stunt your growth and progress while living in mom's house. I would say 90% of the time someone tells me they're living at home, they're usually not making the progress they should be based on how little their expenses are.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I'd rather you have an outside roommate than live with mom or dad.

[George Campbell]

Cuz I think you can get out of this debt in Even renting your own place, you can be out of this debt in two years. If you got serious about two grand a month. Month, Your debt's cleared.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So the question is, how do we create that margin of two grand a month even if we were renting somewhere and if you're bringing home four or five grand a month. All right, now we know we need to live on three grand max to make this goal happen.

[Caller]

Right? Right. I think that's. I think that's what I. I haven't been. I know I. Those things, you guys. I haven't been Cazella tents. I know I haven't. I know. I'm just trying to kind of manage life right now and still have fun, but pay off debt too. So I think I know I can do better. Like I know I can go full force. I just find that when I do that, it's like, it's just. It just seems like it's all stressed, you know, but at the same time it is.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I mean, it is hard to. The things that we're talking about, again, they are simple to say, but when it comes time to do them, they do. It takes a lot of mental energy to stick to a plan. It takes a lot of mental fortitude to do the things that you say you're gonna do on your budget. And it really does become a full time job, you know, to pay off your debt. It's like, all right, every day I'm thinking about it, I wake up, I check my every dollar budget. I'm tracking my transactions, I'm having to pack my lunch, you know, I'm having to make sure I take the food out, you know, of the freezer for dinner. So I'm not ordering takeout. It is a lot, but you kind of have to reframe in your brain. What's more stressful? Is it more stressful to be 41 years old and. And, you know, not really able to. Not feeling confident to do life on your own? Or is it more stressful to. For how long was it, George?

[George Campbell]

Two years. Two years, two grand a month, you'd clear this?

[Caller]

I'm ready to do it.

[Jade Warshaw]

You got cause.

[George Campbell]

Here's the question mark. Can I ask you this? How much progress have you made while living at mom's house rent free with no expenses? Have you thrown all the extra at the debt?

[Caller]

No, I haven't thrown all the extra, but I have paid off debts. I have paid off several lines of credit. I mean, I am doing it, but I have not. Not. I have not Put every, yeah, you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Know, you gotta, you gotta feel, you gotta feel the boiling water. It's like a lobster. You gotta feel the boiling water. It's gonna make you want to jump out of the pot.

[George Campbell]

And that's not a knock on you. I think if I asked most people, they would say the same thing. In fact, I talked to one couple who went further into debt while living with their parents under the guise of, well, we moved in so we could pay off debt faster. But instead what happens is you get kind of comfortable. You don't really feel the fire when, when you have a place to sleep and you're not even paying the rent and so you go, well, I need a little cushion. I deserve to go out tonight. I deserve to do doordash. I think when you're on your own, it's gonna, you're gonna feel it in a good way where you go, these are my bills to pay now and I'm a grown woman and I'm gonna knock out the step.

[Caller]

I miss it so much. I miss things happening at home where it's definitely pushing the button where I'm like, okay, I think, yeah, I want you. I've been wanting to.

[Jade Warshaw]

And there's the social component too, too. There's a social component of you being able to live your life and meet someone and all those things that go along with this. So just remember, money touches every area of your life and for you to be really that full, complete person, you want to get those areas healthy and put them in a place where you can really grow to your fullest potential. And living on your own at 41, it's just, it's got to be part of the deal.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, this is a choose your hard situation. Yeah, either way it's going to be hard. But I think the independence dependence that you'll feel actually will cause you to make more progress.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, yeah, and then there's the time limit too, because if you say, well, it's, it's just harder for me to get out of debt, then you're going to be struggling indefinitely. But if you say, well, it may be hard to get out of debt, but it's only for a two year period, then you get to shorten the length of the hard season. And that to me is a no brainer.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, that's true. We got time for a quick social question.

[Jade Warshaw]

Which one?

[George Campbell]

This is from Tracy in the Ramsey baby steps community. What are your thoughts on credit cards that offer 0% interest? If someone budgets, wouldn't these be a helpful financial tool?

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so I'll be honest with you and George, this is, this is where I stand on this. I know plenty of people who will say, oh, yeah, I'll just take it and I'll pay it off every month. And they never will. They just, they think one thing and another thing.

[George Campbell]

The promo period ends and now it's 29% APR all the way back to. To their start.

[Jade Warshaw]

Or you fall on hard times and what you intended on doing just doesn't happen. There's so many variables that can keep somebody from paying off a zero interest credit card. And then there's a whole thing of like, okay, maybe, maybe there's no interest, but it's still something that you owe. If you allow it to accumulate just a little bit, you lose your job. It's just another added stressor. So for me, it's kind of like, what's the problem with making an income Income and just spending the income? It's kind of like, it's kind of an insult to yourself to go to your job and work hard every day and give your time and your money and your effort. And then you look at your paycheck and you go, eh, that's not enough. Yeah, toss it to the side. I'm just gonna take this credit card.

[George Campbell]

I like that. Just become your own line of credit with money you actually have, and that's 0% interest money all day long in my checking account and I don't have to pay it back. And you make more intentional decisions when it's your money and you're using it now. So that would be my retort to our friend Tracy. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Sometimes it seems like everyone else's love life is this perfect little Hallmark moment movie. Here's the truth. Married, dating, or single and trying to figure it out. Everyone is wrestling with what it means to be in a relationship. I've been married for 23 and a half years. I've got a PhD. My wife has a PhD. And we have all the answers. And we're still trying to figure out how to keep our marriage on track. Both of us have benefited greatly from time with a good therapist. No matter if you've just met someone or if you've been married forever like I have, therapy can help you find your way in a relationship. Identify what you want, what feels heavy, and how you can take some pressure off yourself and build a strong relationship. To do all of this, I Recommend Better Help. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and your preferences. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions through the platform. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch anytime at no extra cost. When it comes to love and relationships, everyone is still finding their way. Find yours with my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp hp.com Ramsey. Well, our team has been working hard behind the scenes to bring you guys a brand new tool. It's called Ask Ramsey and it's our free AI tool that is built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. And today we're going to break down some of the most asked questions from the week. And there was a lot of themes here. Jade.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, people are asking, of course, we're in tax season, so they're asking a lot of questions about taxes. And mortgages are always a hot topic. And so refinancing, should I pay the mortgage off early? All of that. And then cars, George. Cars seems to be a very popular topic as well.

[George Campbell]

A lot of drama and emotion around cars. And here's the number one question we've been seeing. How do I know when it's time to stop putting money toward repairs and decide to sell it and buy something else? Very common riddle. So let's go over just some basic things to consider here. One is how much is the car worth versus versus the repair cost? If the car is worth three grand, the repair cost is four grand. Well, this is a bad idea.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And you know, here we're always telling people to get a cash car, a beater. And so they're thinking, okay, I'm doing a lot of repairs to this car. You know, is it, is it too many repairs? Have I hit that point where I.

[George Campbell]

I've just, is it in the shop more than I'm actually driving it? That's a problem. Probably time to replace it. And then are the repairs around crucial safety items or is it like this would be nice to have or it's cosmetic or just it's an annoyance?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Campbell]

And then your personal budget matters, too.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you have the money?

[George Campbell]

Can you even afford a different car?

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. You might not have a choice.

[George Campbell]

So I thought it would be fun to actually pull up Ask Ramsey Live. Our folks in the booth have it running back there. And let's use a real life example because what's cool about Ask Ramsey is it'll personalize the advice and ask you questions, questions to dig in just like we would on the show. So let's try it out. Let's assume I have. This is a real car that I owned not too long ago, a 2009 Honda Civic. And it's worth about 2500 bucks, which hurts my heart. And the trans, there's a transmission repair needed for about 1500 bucks. All right, so those are numbers. The car's worth 2500. Repair is 1500. So they're going to input that and it's going to be asking them some follow up questions. Here it is. What's the estimated repair cost is $1,500 and it says how does it compare to your car's value? Well, the value is currently $2,500. So the goal here is Ask Ramsey will kind of help us make a recommendation what we should do next based on our situation. And it does an incredible job. Our team has been walking us through this. I am so impressed with how on brand it is. It's the advice you would get right here on the show. But you don't have to call in and hope that you can get through the phone line. So this is something you guys can jump on Ramsey Solutions.com and do for yourself right now. So here's what it says. If it's $1,500 gets your car running reliably for another year or two and there aren't any other big repairs coming, fixing it is likely the best move. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, but you should experience the full potential by signing in.

[George Campbell]

Yes. Because it can save your chats, which that's a good, that's a good point. If you sign in, it can actually save your chats and history. You can go back and reference it and continue the conversation. So here's my challenge to you guys. I know you've got questions, questions, so jump onto ramseysolutions.com try it out for yourself. Give Ask Ramsey a test spin. It's right there on the homepage. You go to ramseysolutions.com you'll see a big open kind of search bar there as you scroll and that is Ask Ramsey. You'll see our faces next to it or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube to check it out again. That's ramseysolutions.com the tool is Ask Ramsey. We are very excited to see how it helps so many people that we can't get to the inboxes for full for the Ramsey show people that we just simply don't have the time to get to. So think about this. It's like Google, but a thousand times more powerful because it's not giving you a bunch of random answers that you sort through it. Exactly. So check it out. It's great. Lori is in Memphis, Tennessee. Up next, what's going on, Lori?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for taking my call today.

[George Campbell]

Sure.

[Caller]

My husband and I have always been on the same page financially. We've been very blessed. And, and we are debt free. We have 2.8 million invested. We take out just a minimal each year to live on. But we do have some fun. You know, we like to travel. We've purchased a new car with cash, different things like that. But we have a little bit of hard time letting go and just living, you know, afraid of what might come around the corner. How long is that going to last? So us, we retired early at 55. I'm 58, he is 60. So we do have a ways to go, you know, with health care concerns and everything coming up.

[George Campbell]

Sure. You guys could go another 35 plus years.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So it's wise to be thinking about that. And you said you have 2.8 in your nest egg.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much are you pulling off at every, every year?

[Caller]

Every, every year. Together we're pulling out 79,500.

[George Campbell]

Okay, let me give you the numbers that. That's 2.8% of your portfolio you're pulling out every year.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And if you talk to any financial advisor in America, they would tell you that you would never run out of money if you were taking out 4 or even 5%.

[Caller]

You know, with health care costs the way they are today, even with health care costs, our insurance down and it's just, it's just difficult for us to let go.

[George Campbell]

Sure. Well, what you can do is you can kind of estimate, hey, if we have long term care insurance, here's, here's how much we're going to pay for that versus paying it out of pocket. Most people are not in a nursing home or private care for 10 years.

[Jade Warshaw]

They're two to three years. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And so now you know, all right, it's going to be 100 grand a year for that. So we should set aside 200 to 400 grand to cover us for those things down the line. That's kind of the worst case scenario, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And so now you know, hey, if you, you have 2.8 million, if you just live off of the growth and leave the principal, you'll be just fine. Because I know what the stock market has been doing. I don't know what you're invested in. I hope it's not just totally in bonds and cash. And you've actually got some equities in there.

[Caller]

Do you know what you with a financial advisor? And we do make a good return. I think we got 17% this past year.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, 17%. So think about that on 2.8 million million, that's enough for you guys to spend for like five years just off of that. Yeah. And so I think part of it is looking at the math and the reality of it. And then part of it is flexing the muscle of going, man, we work so hard to flex our savings muscle and it is looking good. And then this other muscle, the spending muscle, is atrophied in the meantime. And so it takes time. It takes time to let go. You wrote a check for that new car. How much was it?

[Caller]

Well, we had a trade in then we spent $47,000 cash.

[George Campbell]

Did that shock you? Did that like hurt your soul a little bit to write that check?

[Caller]

It did.

[George Campbell]

And then the next time you do it, it's going to hurt a little less, isn't it? Because you're like, oh, I've been here before. We're Gonna, we're spending 50 this time. And it's kind of like, all right, our life didn't change. We're not broke.

[Caller]

I know we've always paid cash for cars. Our home is paid for. We put our daughter through college. She's graduating with a four year degree and her master's degree. This, this may amazing.

[Jade Warshaw]

So.

[Caller]

And she's, she's going to be, you know, debt free from college. So we've done the right things. It's just at this point, we're still young to be retired and, you know, we're just afraid of taking that next step and kind of letting go a little bit. I mean, even to the point of, you know, we thought about putting in a swimming pool, for example, and that's $70,000. And we said we can do without the swimming pool.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think what George says is a really good exercise. When you feel fear about something, you've got to decide, is there, is this something I can solve? Like usually the ones that are kind of like vague and kind of ambiguous, oh, if I spend this money on the pool, I'm going to ruin everything. Well, what's that mean? Like drill that down and try to make it a more realistic fear so that you can actually solve for it. What are you going to afraid? What are you afraid is going to happen? Are you. And one of the things you mentioned is healthcare. Are you afraid that a $70,000 pool is going to keep you from having health care in your later years? Well, then, then you just, you have to ask yourself, is that actually true? And when you say no, it's not. Because I ran the math, it's not true now, now we're talking about true versus false. It's not even, you know, a thing of fear anymore. Is that even true?

[George Campbell]

Can I give you something that's true? If you made 17% on 2.8 million, that's $476,000.

[Caller]

Oh, I know.

[George Campbell]

That's multiple swimming pools and that's not even touching the principal. And so again, looking at the facts and going, we're going to be okay.

[Caller]

But the pool thing comes into play because when you resell your house, can you get the money back out?

[George Campbell]

So we're care about resale.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're not even thinking about reselling your house because you're thinking about putting in a pool.

[George Campbell]

That's a question for your kids to have. If this is where you want to stay long term, and the resale value, it's likely not going to tank. It may not go up significantly enough to cover the cost of the pool and the maintenance, but you're not doing it for that. You're doing it to enjoy. That's why you work so hard and retired early and busted your butts investing over the long haul so that you can enjoy it. So remember this part. Live like no one else so that you can live and give like no one else. And part of that is literally forcing yourself to enjoy the money in a budget. And so I would up your fun money, Lori, and up his fun money to an amount that kind of. You're like, this is uncomfortable to spend this much on myself. Cuz you go, I don't deserve this. I'm not worth it. What if I run out of money and instead start going, I deserve this and what not going to run out of money. We set ourselves up for a life of abundance, not scarcity. And doing that budget and forcing ourselves to spend over time, I think you'll get there and a good exercise. Go to the pool and realize you're okay. We're down to 2.73 million now. What are we going to do? You got this.

[Caller]

Sam.

[George Campbell]

Gloria is in Albuquerque. Up next. What's going on? Gloria?

[Caller]

Hello.

[George Campbell]

What's going on?

[Caller]

Thank you for taking my call. So my question is, we are on baby step six and my husband and I are both teachers. Our son is 28. He's been married for five years. Years this last year he has stopped working to do full time Christian recordings. He's a musician, he's a Christian recording artist. It is not paying him at the time. He's trying to build up an album. He has about 47,000 monthly listeners.

[George Campbell]

Great.

[Caller]

And so yeah, we're 47,000.

[George Campbell]

Is that like Spotify listeners?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

So you probably made $4 this month from Spotify. That's exciting.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[George Campbell]

Love it.

[Caller]

Absolutely. He's also music minister at church. That does pay him about 600 monthly. His wife is a teacher also. And so right now she is providing financially. We're hoping that this ministry helps him provide financially. But we. He is living. They are living in our rental. The rental has not been making any profit. They pretty much just pay the taxes, maintenance. And so even though we're on baby step six, my husband and I are contemplating on just gifting him the home or gifting them the home. And that's my question. Am I, are we doing this wrong? Are we supposed. Yeah. Financially I feel like God is just providing in every way possible. We don't even feel not getting that passive income. We don't feel it. He's just, we're blessed right now. And so that's my question.

[Jade Warshaw]

The rental is paid for in cash. You don't owe anything on it?

[Caller]

Yeah, the rent has been paid. We paid that off quite a long time ago. And in our home we owe about 86,000. We are debt free, thank God. But when will you be done?

[Jade Warshaw]

When will you be done with yours?

[Caller]

Well, I'm hoping in five years or sooner because we can put, we, we can put about 2,000 extra a month. And I will be graduating with my PhD in December and so I feel everything is in place.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's your home worth?

[Caller]

It's worth maybe about 300,000. Our neighbors have sold for about 500,000, but ours is three bedroom.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's the rental worth?

[Caller]

I'd say about 150, but it would probably sell for less.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so why gift it to him? Why not just say you guys don't have to pay the costs right now for a season?

[Caller]

That's a good question.

[George Campbell]

Because there's also tax implications you got to think about. Because if you, if they inherit the house, they'll have a step up in basis versus what you paid for it. Now they're paying, you know, the capital gains if this house continues to appreciate. So that's one piece. And the other part is I don't like artificially propping up their life. Cause I want them to have A sense of independence and be able to cover their bills on their own. And I also know he's pursuing a dream right now, and he's on the way. Like, he's doing great. And I also know that Jade and I are musicians, and there was a time I was working full time and doing albums and playing gigs at night. And that's just the path of being a musician and being in that world. And so I would encourage him to figure out a way to cover his own family's bills while pursuing this dream, if that's possible. Possible.

[Caller]

I hear you. That's kind of how I started this journey, too, is I hustled quite a lot to start these steps, and my husband and him were like, no, I don't want to do that. And then when they saw me, like, getting stuff paid, they're like, all right, talk to me. And then we all hopped on the Dave Ramsey, the baby steps. And yes, everything you're saying actually makes a lot of sense, I guess being emotional, invested, you know, he's our son and 2. The most important thing is that it's a ministry that he's, you know, doing to try and bring others to Christ. And that's where it gets really tricky.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. I mean, you can. You can support, you know, if you want to support the ministry in that regard, that's fine to do that and say, hey, we want to gift you $1,000 a month for the next year so that you're less worried about your bills and to support you as you pursue this album. Who's. Who's paying for the album? Because that's not cheap.

[Caller]

They have money saved up. They. Like, before he got married, I made sure he had a fully funded emergency fund. And, you know, that he.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, okay, so they're not. They didn't do this out of a place of desperation. They're still doing fine, even with teacher salary and his 600 bucks a month from minister at church. They're doing okay. They don't actually need your money.

[Caller]

I just see. I don't see those things because I'm it. Yes, I need it. And that's why I called, because I'm like, I need to see someone who's not emotionally. Is it involved?

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it just you, or is it your husband, too?

[Caller]

Both of us. My husband and I. He's our son, and he.

[Jade Warshaw]

He. He is 100% on board with this, or does he have any qualms?

[Caller]

Well, no, he has no qualms. We just feel. I don't know. I just. We're trying to stay faithful to God and feel that he's just telling us to listen.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm not going to tell. If you tell me God told me to do something, I'm not going to be the one to tell you.

[George Campbell]

I'm not going to get struck by lightning in between that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. But if you want to know just practical or logistic thoughts, I. I'm with George in the way that I think they're at a critical point of deciding what they're going to do and having the. Having the motivation to work for it. For most of us, the motivation is I got to take care of my family. I got to make do you know what I'm saying? I have to hit certain standards in order to live and survive and provide a life. And that creates great motivation. And when that's kind of taken out from under you in the form of a gift, it can actually end up taking away. Right. It's like you feel like you didn't.

[George Campbell]

Really earn it in a sense.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

We've talked about. Can this move hurt him? Is it. Is it removing part of his contribution?

[Jade Warshaw]

Because they're so young. They're so young. They're just getting started. They're 26.

[George Campbell]

You said 20. He's 28 and been married five years. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, 28.

[George Campbell]

Here's what I would do as a parent. I would not cover his bills. I would help fund the dream. I think that helps you separate this in your mind. Mind of. I'm not helping prop him artificially. I'm just going, hey, I believe in this mission. I believe in this music. I'm gonna help pay for the publicity for the album or I'm gonna pay for the recording studio time for the album.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you could.

[George Campbell]

That is a great blessing.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you could still have the goal, like knowing in your hearts you are gonna gift him this. This home. And, you know, initially, or, I'm sorry, eventually, but just not yet. I just feel like, if you're asking my opinion, it feels very early in his growth and in his career to do that.

[Caller]

Okay. And our journey too, financially. I just, you know, we're trying to see should we skip this step? Because we are not in step seven. And that's where, like the rule. I mean, we tithe, but we don't give like we want to. So hopefully we will get there.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you mean by should we skip the step?

[Caller]

Step? Well, because we're on baby step six. And then when we really give, that's what comes at baby step seven. When you are just. Yeah. When you're just like, ready to, okay, where am I gonna.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's the other part of this. That's the other part of this is you still have a mortgage that you need to pay off. And I'm not suggesting that you need to sell this house and pay off a mortgage or anything like that, but I am saying that you. To get yourself in the proper position to really be able to be that outrageously just generous is going to make you feel even better about the gift, I think, when the time does come.

[Caller]

Okay, good. Very good advice. I had not thought of a lot of angles that you all brought up.

[George Campbell]

So that, yeah, there's some big implications. It's a big financial decision. And so I would just start small, and you can always ramp it up later. And so if you want to let them not pay for living in the rental right now, that's a nice thing to do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

If you want to give money towards, you know, whatever pieces are left for him to fund the dream that he wants to. To do, that's also wonderful. But I wouldn't just gift him a house right now. I think it's too big of a.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's just. There's just a lot of dignity in going out and being able to provide for yourself and hit those milestones that I think we all want to hit now. I'm sure there's a lot of people listening right now going, you're stopping him.

[George Campbell]

You know, you're stopping giving you a.

[Jade Warshaw]

House like you're block.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

But it's true, you know, there's something to be said for that.

[George Campbell]

Well, the thing is, he doesn't need a house right now. He needs a successful music career.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And so anything you can do to actually help that part, I would aim. Aim my. My financial guns there versus just helping cover the bills because that's not really where they're struggling. What he needs right now is get the word out, you know, let's get more listeners.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's get.

[George Campbell]

Maybe it's. I don't know if it's a record deal, a songwriting publishing deal. There's a lot of other moving pieces. This. And I wish him the best. 47,000 listeners is about 47,000 more than I have. So keep it up, my man. Welcome back to the Ramsey show and the Fairy Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Campbell joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw, and we're taking Your calls at 888, 825. 5225. Elijah is in Boston up next. What's going on? Elijah? Hello.

[Caller]

How you doing?

[George Campbell]

We're doing great. What's your question today?

[Caller]

So my fiance and I, we currently have $130,000 saved up. We have an additional 100 into like stocks and stuff, but we really just want to leave that. And we're looking to use 130 to buy a house first. Initially, we got pre approved for like 350. We put in an offer on the house, had an inspection done, and found out all these things were wrong with it. So we backed out of the deal. And we're like, well, maybe we should just build a house. We have no experience doing that though. And it's the wintertime where we live. We're actually living in a camper right now. We did that. We sold our house, bought a camper. This way we can downsize and save some money.

[George Campbell]

So you had a house previously that you. You owned?

[Caller]

Yeah, this was about five years ago. We sold it and, you know, we kind of downsized. We wanted to just kind of, you know, have less debt. We do really didn't need that much space anymore. But now we're finding ourselves in a position where do we buy or do it? Do we build?

[Jade Warshaw]

What's your budget for the house?

[Caller]

What is our budget too? So we were looking to spend. If we build, 130,000 is pretty much our budget, not including land. We figured we'd finance the land and, and just, you know, pay everything else out of pocket.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, well, all in then. How much do you plan to spend? So 130,000. On the, on the actual home, how much would you spend on the land?

[Caller]

So we, for example, we found a piece of property in the area where we live. It's 40,000. We put down 25%. That's 10. But you know, we still got to do a septic. A. Well, you know, all these utilities and it's just.

[George Campbell]

So is the goal to live like off, you know, off property, off the land somewhere, not in a society? Is that your goal?

[Caller]

Well, no, not like off grid. That, that would be great. But it's just, we're in our area. It's really not an option. You know, most of the land that we find is like, we have to be on utilities to some degree. In this area is, you know, excuse me. Our goal is just to be debt free. We have all this money. More like, why do we need to go be in debt right now?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, it almost sounds like you had one bad experience. Experience. And it's kind of turned you off to the whole thing and now you're kind of gone. Not to say that building a house is an extreme, but it's kind of like you went to the extreme of, well, if this didn't work out, we just have to go build our own thing and start from scratch. Right. If you, if you want to build a house and start from scratch, I think that's great. But if you just had a bad experience and maybe you just need to spend a little bit more time with another realtor or you know, looking at some different properties, why not just do that? So I think you guys have to decide what it is that you actually want.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

What do you want?

[Caller]

Well, I guess what it, yeah, that's the thing is that we just don't want debt. Like in our area, the houses are just selling for like well above, you know, what we're willing to pay, you know, $400,000. And these houses are still like fixer uppers, you know, and it just, it just doesn't justify putting ourselves in debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. I see. As large.

[George Campbell]

How much do you guys make?

[Caller]

So we make together over like about 120,000 a year.

[George Campbell]

Great. Are those remote jobs or you have to be there in office?

[Caller]

Well, I'm a school bus driver and, and she's a nurse, so we have to be in office.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Because I'm just thinking you don't want to be 45 minutes out somewhere.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

With septic and trying to do all that. First of all, it's going to be a full time job if you're going to build from scratch and deal with all these contractors. And so I would start for now to avo the headache of what you guys can afford in your area. And even if you had a small mortgage that was very reasonable as, as far as your take home pay is concerned, that's okay. It's not a sin to have a mortgage and you can knock it out fast and get aggressive with it. And if you're going, hey, I cannot find anything for $130,000. Welcome to 2026 in America, especially in Boston, Massachusetts, which is where I'm from. So I can tell you it's not cheap over there. And if you guys live there, you're gonna have to decide do we to want to rent and for a while until we can have more money so that this is less of a burden or we can pay cash or do we just want to go? We're going to put as much down as we can, sell the stocks, put 200 grand down and get a 50 or $100,000 mortgage.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long did it take to save the 130?

[Caller]

Well, honestly, it took us about a year or so. And a lot of it had to do with when we sold the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. How much of it came from that?

[Caller]

Well, honestly, we have in total 230. But I don't know what we. What we have in this in stocks, like what we've gained. I mean, you know, like what it's valued at. But.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you have 230. Hold on, let's sort through this money.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much is in stocks?

[Caller]

A hundred of it is in stocks. And then, and then we put 130 away for like, it's called our house fund.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you have, if you were to sell off the stocks, somewhere around 232total.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm asking, is there any money anywhere else we should know about? Okay. Does that. Go ahead?

[Caller]

No, no, no, no. Nothing else? No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So you would definitely want to have some sort of an emergency fund set aside. So some of that money needs to be set aside. You keep it liquid, keep it in a high yield savings account. But I'm with George. I think that if you can. I hate debt too. I do, but I think with this real estate market, there is something to be said for getting in when you can get in and when you can actually afford to do so. And I. If you guys can find something that's no more than 25% of your take home when it's all said and done on a 15 year fixed rate, I would do that in two seconds.

[George Campbell]

Yep. And that's exactly what I did. Elijah. We on our first town home, my wife and I, we put down 40% because we're crazy people. And then we paid it off in 26 months because again, we're crazy people.

[Caller]

That's what, that's what I suggested. I'm like, well, what if we just put down more money? At least then we'll have, you know, our mortgage won't be so high. We'll have less debt. Debt. And then we can work on paying it off faster. And even if we ever decide to sell it, we have more equity in the house.

[George Campbell]

Exactly. And so that's what I would do. Put down as much as possible, which lowers your mortgage and your payment, which allows you to have more margin to throw at the mortgage to knock it out fast. Because here's the other thing you got to think about. If it takes you five more years to save up and pay cash, well, guess what happened to the housing market in the next five years it went up.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

The moving, the goalpost keeps moving. And so do it. When you're financially ready, when you can get that payment to 25% or less of your take home pay on a 15 year fixed and you find a house that you guys go, this is great.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I mean, if you, if you sold off those stocks, let's say you kept 30, 000 aside for three to six month expenses. And let's say you found something that was worth 350, 000, you put 200 down. That's great. 15 year fixed rate mortgage. You're right in the parameter that you need to be. Yeah. What you're going to get for350,000 may not be what you're picturing in your mind, but you got to start somewhere and you got to get in where you fit in.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. In two years from now, that house is paid off and now it's worth 400,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Exactly.

[George Campbell]

Now you can roll all of that into another house and do the same thing or even pay cash with the money. You can save time.

[Caller]

I really hope that there's a way that I can get this call and play it for my fiance because I've been trying to say this and she's like very skeptical, understandably so. But she actually introduced me to you guys.

[George Campbell]

Oh, great. Listen. She will listen to Jade Warshaw.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

I'll tell you that much. And you're lucky for you, everything we say is on the Internet for forever. So you can tune in on YouTube and catch this call and we can have our team send you a link as well so that you don't miss it like that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Get into that. If you haven't already. Go to Ramsey Solutions.com and look at the mortgage calculator. And that's all. I used to figure that out for you. You can use it too. And you can calculate it at an interest rate, 15 year fixed rate. And that's how I did it.

[George Campbell]

So. And while you're on the website, you can reach out to a real estate pro in your area. And this is a crew that we have vetted real estate pros that do it the Ramsey way, who aren't going to let you buy a house that you can't afford, who want you to become debt free as fast as possible. And so, man, I think you just need some tools. You need some tools, some math, some reset expectations, and maybe let go of the baggage of the past of how we feel about home ownership. Either way, it's going to be hard. But I love your dream of becoming debt free as soon as possible. Okay, picture this. You sit down to do your taxes, but instead of stressing out, you're actually ahead of the game and filing with an affordable software that makes your computer shoot confetti with when you're done. Okay, not that last part, but Ramsey SmartTax does make filing easy and doesn't make your bank account cry. Ramsey SmartTax is a hundred percent accurate software that's honest about its pricing and is backed by a company who's been in the business for over 50 years. So go to ramseysolutions.com smarttax to take advantage of early bird pricing and stress free filing. That's ramseysolutions.com smarttax. Guys, the VIP package is officially sold out on the live like no one else cruise. But there's still a chance to lock in the preferred package which gives you extra access, better seating for all the events, and more time with Dave and us Ramsey personalities on board. We're so excited for this. If you're debt free, this is your chance to celebrate with us. You can secure your cabin with a 600 deposit today and join us in the Western Caribbean in March of 2020. Click the link in the show notes or you can go to ramseysolutions.comevents to book your cabin and get the preferred package before it's gone. Gonna be a good time. David is in New York up next. David, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Love the show.

[George Campbell]

Thank you.

[Caller]

So my wife. Yeah, I appreciate it. My wife and I are in baby step six and about a year and a half ago I was laid off from like a tech executive leadership role that I had. I was making really good money. We were plowing through paying off a mortgage and saving for retire. And then for the following year I just really hunkered down and was applying as a full time job and I applied to 1500 jobs and I stopped counting. But about six months ago I took some various jobs that I could find within my network here but my income has gone down from like 250 plus bonus down to like 50k. And my wife works. But what I'm trying to decide now is do I keep looking for tech jobs in this greater New York City area which hasn't really connected yet, or do we take the the equity out of our our home here and move to a lower cost area that we've already been talking about doing like North Carolina or the greater Atlanta area where there is a Tech economy. And the hard part there is, is the grandkids. So that's the hard part we're wrestling with.

[George Campbell]

But are the grandkids in New York City?

[Caller]

Yeah, I have three of my four adult children live in the area, and they are all now married and have little ones.

[George Campbell]

That's fun. Well, let's. Taking the job out of it. Yeah, take the job and income out of it. What would you guys do? Stay in New York City or move?

[Caller]

We would move, and we've already had two of our adult children say that they would follow us because they can't afford to live for either. So. But, you know, but it's like, hey.

[George Campbell]

We could all use some lower cost of living. You'll just be the first to go. Okay, well, have you applied to jobs out there? Do you have any connections?

[Caller]

I have. I mean, I've applied up and down the east coast with some of those tech areas. I think what happens, though, is they don't take you seriously. If it's a hybrid job and you don't live in the area, it's really hard to break through. So I wonder if I position myself there, if they would take me more seriously as a candidate.

[George Campbell]

It'd be easier for women and if you're local.

[Caller]

Exactly. Yeah. And I've had a lot of interviews. It seems like the whole remote tech thing has gone now. The hybrid thing.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, that's died out. And people are going, nope, I want you in office at least some of the time, if not the whole time. And so that's, I think, going to be their foreseeable future. I would try out some of Ken's tools and resources before you make any of these decisions, because he's got a great book called the Proximity Principle, and it'll help you figure out how to not just be another digital resume application in a stack. Because applying for 1500 jobs you can pretty much do with a click of a button. And so you and everyone else and AI is now applying and bots are applying for jobs. And so you've got to stand out in the crowd. You've got to know somebody. You need to have some kind of connection referral. And even here at Ramsey, the ones that gets to the top of the pile are the referrals from team members going, hey, my buddy, he's sharp. He's applying for the job. Can you guys take a look at it? And straight to the top of the stack. That's what you need.

[Jade Warshaw]

What would it mean for your wife's job if you guys were to Move.

[Caller]

Yeah, she has a job. Thankfully, her company is national and she can do her same job anywhere. And the good news is she has the health insurance right now, so that's good news.

[Jade Warshaw]

Great. What she earn?

[Caller]

She's making about 50k.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you guys are making it work in New York City right now on 100k?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's tight. We have about 200 hours to rub together at the end of the month, but as long as we don't have a major expense. Here's the part that scares me though, is our emergency fund went down from 50k to 5k.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. It's precarious for you. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So you're partially sort of artificially funding this from the emergency.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, most months we keep. We were treading water. If there's a big expense, it does dip back into it, which is scary, obviously.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. This is becoming more and more of a. It would be nice to. We have to do this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I think so too.

[Caller]

I agree.

[George Campbell]

You're on the cusp of going to the weekend.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you didn't do tech, what would you do?

[Caller]

I mean, I looked. I know I have transferable skills so I could lead, like a client services organization. I'm helping my friend right now with like, you know, rev Ops and building out his construction business. I have. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Have you applied for, like, adjacent type roles?

[Caller]

I have about five versions of my resume and I've. I've been applying to a variety of them. But I'll tell you, the best interviews that I get are the ones that are like, you know, executive recruiters that reach out to me, that tends to go further. I. Finalist four times a. I can count.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. It might be worth kind of using a headhunter to help you get in the door if you have that level of experience and people are looking for top talent. So there's a lot of things you can do and I just don't want you kind of spinning your wheels while running out of money in the meantime. And so that might mean finding extra jobs right now just to float you to not dip into that emergency fund until you guys decide to move or you get a different job. And it might be on her too. I think she needs to find a better paying job if you guys are going to stay in your York City.

[Caller]

Yeah, I know it's tough here. It's very expensive. Thankfully, we have a ton of equity in the house, so we're going to. If we do. If and when we do move, we'll make out really well.

[George Campbell]

But imagine being able to Buy something in cash in, you know, North Carolina and make the move and make more money than you're making. You're going to feel like a bajillionaire.

[Jade Warshaw]

Fabulous.

[George Campbell]

Well, I'm wishing you the best, man. That's a tough job market. It's, it's not on you. It just really is tough out there and it's going to to take getting a little more creative and a little more personal to get that gig. Tori is in Dayton, Ohio, up next. Tori, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you for taking our call. We have a 30 year mortgage and are wanting to pay additional on the principal so we can afford the 15 year. If we dropped our investing from 15% to company match for only two years, in addition to what else we can squeeze from our budget, we could get the principal low enough to afford the 15% year. Would that be wise? We're debt free except the mortgage make 175k annually and already have 350k in retirement.

[George Campbell]

Cool, cool, cool. So you're saying you want to lower investing in order to afford the 15 year payment. As far as if you refinanced.

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah. And just lowering the retirement so it gives us an extra grand a month to put towards the principal on top of everything else we're going to be throwing at the, the principal.

[Jade Warshaw]

I. Why do you feel the need to refinance? Why, why not just throw any and all extra money at the principal when it comes time to do so?

[Caller]

So we are doing that. I think just sometimes when we look like on your old calculators and things, it's just like so much interest we're paying and so we would like to get to the 15 year but the less interest technically afford it with the principal that we still owe.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. The principle still applies though, as I mean principle ple that if you put extra on the third 30 year you're going to save interest as well.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And so I wouldn't do it. I mean I'm a big fan of the 15 year mortgage but there's, there's a time, a place to refinance and that is you're debt free except the house, you're investing 15 and can keep it there.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

You can comfortably afford the 15 year payment and you got to think about the break even point. It's going to cost you 2 to 5% of your loan to refinance. So if it costs you 8 grand and it saves you 400 month, well, you got to stay there 20 months just to break even. And so that's the part that, that worries me. I don't know that you're going to see significant savings instantly to the point where this is a no brainer. Now if you had an 8% mortgage and you can go down to a 3%, well, the numbers might make sense. But if you're going to go down 1% and it's going to take five years to break even just so you can feel better about it, I wouldn't do it. I would just pay aggressively on that 30 and pretend like it's a 15.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

That makes sense. Thank you.

[George Campbell]

Absolutely. You can crunch the numbers on our mortgage payoff calculator. Just use your 30 year and say if we put two grand extra a month we would save $100,000 in interest and pay it off in the next seven years. And so just you can still be aggressive about the goal and maybe there is a time and place you refinance and it makes sense. But I don't know. Based on what you told me of having to lower investing to make this.

[Jade Warshaw]

Happen, that's the part that like that doesn't feel right.

[George Campbell]

If you can go back in time. We probably realize you shouldn't have bought this house with this level of mortgage.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[George Campbell]

But here we are. It's okay. You guys are doing great. You're crushing it. You got money in retirement. You make great money. I would just aggressively attack it and knock it out. And a great reminder, if you guys want to check that calculator out, it's completely free. Ramsey Solutions dot com. It's our mortgage payoff calculator. It will light a fire under you to see that amortization schedule.

[Jade Warshaw]

Indeed.

[George Campbell]

And how much you're giving your lender as a gift for them giving you this loan. It's generally in the six figure range is what you're going to see is what you gave them on top of the loan that hurts your soul.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm gonna save money or I'm gonna get my financial act together. But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win. And our EveryDollar app is the game changer. Need in 15 minutes. EveryDollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket helping you stay on track all year long. So don't just wish your money works out. You can be the one to actually make it happen this year. Download the EveryDollar Budget app and get started right now for free.

[George Campbell]

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage, we have Brian and Tara with us. Welcome, guys.

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi.

[George Campbell]

Where are you guys from? We are from Clarksville, Tennessee, right down the road. Wonderful. Well, thanks for being with us this episode. Celebrate. Congratulations. How much debt did you guys pay off?

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank you. We paid off $411,000. 500.

[George Campbell]

It's a lot of dollars.

[Jade Warshaw]

It is.

[George Campbell]

How long did that take?

[Jade Warshaw]

It took eight years and seven months. Wow.

[George Campbell]

Awesome. And what was the range of income during that time? 70,000 up to 250,000 now.

[Caller]

Wow.

[George Campbell]

What, what was the raise due to? Was that just you guys working harder? Someone got a job, got promoted. Yeah. Promotions. I mean, we took on some side jobs, started a couple small companies as well throughout the way. So a couple different things. Incredible. Okay, what do you guys do for a living? I'm the chief operating officer for Ready Mix Concrete Company. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I'm a teacher slash stay at home mom.

[George Campbell]

Awesome. That's a fun slash.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay, and what kind of debt was the 411?

[Jade Warshaw]

So it was student loans, two cars. Cars. Lots of credit cards. And then our mortgage. Whoa.

[George Campbell]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Way to go.

[George Campbell]

You just busted through. We did. Okay. Did you even stop to breathe or did you just go right through 2, 3 into 4, 5, 6?

[Jade Warshaw]

So we had a little bit of a lull after we paid off all the consumer debt and then we just jumped right back in.

[George Campbell]

Wow, that's exciting. And I gotta ask, what was the mortgage comparatively to the consumer debt?

[Jade Warshaw]

So the mortgage was about 298,000.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. The consumer debt was 113. So what was the spark that lit the flame to start all of this eight years back?

[George Campbell]

I'd say family. Her sister was following the plan with her husband and they kind of talked to us about financial peace. And we started along the way.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

When we got married, she gave us.

[Jade Warshaw]

The CDs, the total money makeover. And we live. Listen to those together. Skeptically.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I was gonna ask, how do you get someone on. That's what I'm saying. On the Ramsey plan, because you must have taken it as a diss when she's like, hey, you need. You need this. Listen to these CDs. You guys are broke?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Well, she gave them to us and.

[Jade Warshaw]

We listened and we were kind of like, eh, we like it. Good ideas. So we kind of started paying off a little bit of extra debt here and there. But we did like the Davish for about a year.

[Caller]

It wasn't until.

[Jade Warshaw]

Until we took a job in Texas and we started making a substantially larger amount of money. And then we looked at our bank account one day and we were like, hold on a second. We're still living paycheck to paycheck. Where is this raise going? And we looked at all of our budget items and kind of figured out where all the money was going.

[Caller]

And we were like, whoa, we're spending.

[Jade Warshaw]

That much money going out to eat? That is crazy. So we got on the every dollar budget and we started to just cut everything out that we didn't need to have. And that's when we really started going gazelle against all the debt.

[George Campbell]

Wow. You just were like, we need to be doing better. This is insane. Like we were making so much more money. And did lifestyle creep hit you where you were just kind of spent everything extra that you were making? Yeah, for sure. I mean we were going out to eat a lot. I mean you never realize how much money you're spending a restaurant. Do you actually look at it? So yeah, it definitely hit us. I mean we made more money, but we spent it as well.

[Jade Warshaw]

So how long did it take to do the first portion? So the first portion of this is like 111,000. That's like the consumer debt. How long did that part take? So that took us 22 months. Okay.

[George Campbell]

Fast.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so then you decided, you know what, that feels really good. We're going to start working on the house. And it sounds like you really were just intentional about it. Not nearly as intense maybe as the other debt. Or was it just just as intense? It was definitely more intentional. I think we made a lot of sacrifices and took on some extra jobs. Like he said. We opened two businesses and that brought in a lot of income on the weekends and yeah, that's really cool.

[George Campbell]

I'm curious, what was your like life hack to paying off this mortgage early? Because people and you see tiktoks about how to do it and I go just pay extra on the principal. So are you guys paying an example exact amount of an intentional goal or was it, hey, depending on how much we have extra this month, we're going to just chunk it at the mortgage. We just chunked it at the mortgage every month. I mean, whatever we didn't spend on the budget. We. We put towards the mortgage. What was like, the lowest amount you put on the mortgage in a month? And what's the highest? You remember?

[Jade Warshaw]

So we. We get a yearly bonus.

[George Campbell]

Oh, nice.

[Jade Warshaw]

So we pretty much threw everything extra during the year, and then when we got the bonuses, we would throw it at it.

[George Campbell]

That's incredible.

[Jade Warshaw]

I think one of the largest was $80,000.

[George Campbell]

Ooh, that's gotta feel good.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's juicy. Yeah, that's nice.

[George Campbell]

That is incredible. Well, you guys have worked your tails off.

[Jade Warshaw]

Have you done anything to celebrate?

[George Campbell]

We went on a cruise.

[Caller]

We went on a cruise.

[Jade Warshaw]

Nice. Just one.

[George Campbell]

Just one.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just one so far.

[George Campbell]

So what do you tell people? The key to getting out of debt is house and everything. I think you just gotta start chipping away. I mean, you look at the number, and it seems like a really big, big number. You seem like you'll never get there, but I think every little bit counts, and you just got to work your way towards it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. And sticking with a budget also. If we hadn't got on the. The budget, we would have never been able to do it. So figuring out how much you're spending and cutting that down as much as you can.

[George Campbell]

I love it. And you had some cheerleaders along the way, of course. Family giving you the cd, saying, listen to this. Anyone else? That was a part of the journey. That was pretty much it.

[Jade Warshaw]

My sister. They actually paid off all of theirs about two years ago. So we came and celebrated with them a couple years ago.

[George Campbell]

And that little extra fire under you, like, all right, we're next.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Buckle up.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[George Campbell]

So how do you explain the feeling to someone of being completely debt free? Yeah, it's hard to explain.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't even know. Like, it just feels like freedom.

[George Campbell]

You almost wonder what to do with your money the next month. It's an odd feeling. Yeah, that's a good problem to have.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. What did you do with it the next month?

[George Campbell]

So still save it?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, we still save it. We're. We're hoping to invest in some real estate here pretty soon. I love that.

[George Campbell]

Maybe a little bit going towards the kids one day. I see some off to the side.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Getting antsy. You want to bring them up? Sure. Okay, let's get their names and ages as they come up on stage with you. Was that a big why for you guys having the kiddos along the way? Because are any of them, like, they weren't even born yet when you. You guys started the journey? It looks like.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, this Is Elliot. She is five, Cooper is two. And then we have a eight month old walking around somewhere with an aunt.

[George Campbell]

That's fun.

[Jade Warshaw]

But yeah, actually none of them were born when we started.

[George Campbell]

Wow. So a lot of life happened along the way. You guys stayed intentional. It may have slowed down in seasons here and there, but you guys had your eye on the prize.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. Fabulous. Oh, beautiful.

[George Campbell]

So we got fire. All right, well, make it quick, buddy. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Oh, it's so nice. Okay, let's get to it. Here it is. We've got Brian and Tara from Clarksville, Tennessee. $411,000 paid off in eight years and seven months making 70 to 250 house and everything paid off. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ready?

[George Campbell]

Three, two, one. We've been.

[Jade Warshaw]

An actual debt free scream.

[George Campbell]

I'm gonna count the crying as a cry for joy.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's what I'm saying. An actual debt free scream.

[George Campbell]

Oh, my goodness.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love it.

[George Campbell]

We're screaming for all kinds of things. He's probably screaming for some, I don't know, milk right now. He's hungry. Oh, my goodness. That's exciting.

[Jade Warshaw]

That is exciting. Whenever someone pays off their mortgage, especially.

[George Campbell]

When they have so much time on their side. Oh, gosh, they're not even close to retirement.

[Jade Warshaw]

They're gonna be bajillionaires.

[George Campbell]

Like, think about it, how much wealth they can build just investing that mortgage payment every month.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

You know, two grand ran from 40 to 65 with compound growth. You're like, well, that's an extra couple million right there.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. These are people who understood that if you just decide the time is going to pass anyway and you can just build little by little and you look up and you're exactly where you want it to be. But it takes time.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. And he's so right. You see that big mortgage balance and you're like, well, we can't pay it off early. It's $300,000. What's the point? We'll just make the minimum payments. We're going to move eventually. Any anyways, who cares?

[Jade Warshaw]

That's just so passive.

[George Campbell]

That's normal in America. And instead he went, you know what? We're going to knock out a little bit and a little bit and soon it's going to be 250. And next thing you know, it's 200.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And now it's 150.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Now we're under a hundred thousand or like we can see the finish line.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's so funny because people are afraid of the sacrifice. But I look at them, and I'm like, they're intact.

[George Campbell]

They live their life.

[Jade Warshaw]

Their clothes don't have holes in it. Like, they look like they eat just fine. You know what I mean? Like, they're here and they're fine. And so everybody who's afraid. Afraid of the struggle or afraid of the timeline, man, just embrace it. It's gonna happen. Yeah. And you'll look up and you could be just like them.

[George Campbell]

We have villainized sacrifice in today's world.

[Jade Warshaw]

You know, I. George, you said it. And I. I gotta go on that because it's so true. And I think the world. You know, the way the world is it. It has set us up to not embrace the things that take boredom, patience, sacrifice. You know, our brains, they just want. Want everything right now.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that's not the way money works. Everything we teach requires boredom, patience, and sacrifice.

[George Campbell]

It's just, if you can learn to be a crock pot in a world full of microwaves, you're going to build so much wealth and be the weirdest person on the planet, and people will go, must be nice. Well, they must have got lucky. Must have had an inheritance. I went, yeah, they. They worked their butts off to get some luck. Maybe you should, too. Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. Our scripture of the day. Joshua 1:9. Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid. Do not be discouraged. For the Lord, your God will be with you wherever you go.

[Jade Warshaw]

Amen.

[George Campbell]

And Rand said the question isn't who is going to let me? It's who is going to stop me? Ooh, them fighting words.

[Jade Warshaw]

You gotta say it with your chest.

[George Campbell]

Jay just bowed up a little bit. All right. Dwayne is in Jacksonville, Florida. Up next. What's going on? Dwayne?

[Jade Warshaw]

Hi.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[George Campbell]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

All right, so I'm wondering how much to spend on a replacement for my wife's car. So she right now has a suv. We need a little more room. Next year, three kids, carpool so we're looking to trade up for a minivan. So this one I could probably get five, six, maybe 7,000. And I'm looking for probably a good quality minivan that'll last a while, basically. So trying to figure out how much to spend.

[George Campbell]

Cool. What do you guys make a year?

[Caller]

About 55 after taxes.

[George Campbell]

All right, and what other vehicles do you have?

[Caller]

So I have a used Acura and I just sold my Nissan for that.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you got the used Acura plus this SUV right now, what is the used Acura worth?

[Caller]

17 and a half.

[George Campbell]

Okay, and do you guys have any debt?

[Caller]

No, just for the house.

[George Campbell]

Awesome. How much do you have saved for the car so far? That's outside of your emergency fund.

[Caller]

I basically have $85,000 or so thousand in investments. A fair amount of that is set aside for upcoming construction on a house. But I'm feeling like we could push that off a little and take a little more of that for a car, if that makes sense.

[Jade Warshaw]

What kind of investments is it in? Is it just in a brokerage account?

[Caller]

Relatively conservative in what's it called with an investing company. I forget the name.

[Jade Warshaw]

But it's just a normal taxable brokerage account. It's not anything for retirement. Right.

[Caller]

There is a Roth IRA in there too.

[George Campbell]

Okay, but you wouldn't touch that to use for any of these goals, construction or the car?

[Caller]

Definitely not.

[George Campbell]

Okay, how much do you want to spend on this thing?

[Caller]

I'm thinking around 15, but I'm wondering if it might make sense to go a little better and get something that'll be a little more reliable for longer time without spending too much on maintenance.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, I'll give you the parameters. Number one, you've done it the right way so far. You're debt free, you've got an emergency fund, you're going to pay cash for this thing. The other parameter is that you don't want anything with wheels and motors to add up to more than half your annual income. Take your gross household income. What does that add up to? Is it closer to 70? 75.

[Caller]

My parents are actually really nice and still help out with me very willingly. I don't really have to feel too much pressure to earn more quick. I have more of a long term plan with. With earning more with the job trajectory that I've taken.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so what's your current household income though? You said 55 is the take home. What's the gross?

[Caller]

68.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so if we take, you know, you're 68. Right. And where you divide that by two, that means the max for all the cars in your life is 34. You own an Acura, that's worth 17. So let's take that out. That leaves you with 17 to spend on the car. That would be kind of. My top limit for this car is at 17 grand. I'd be very comfortable with that. If you guys have the cash and you want to buy a $17,000 used minivan, I think you can get a great one. And if you focus on, you know, reliable makes and models in years, do your research and go, all right, we're going to get a. I don't know, I'm making this up. A 2016 Toyota Sienna.

[Caller]

Yeah, something like that.

[George Campbell]

That, you know. So just kind of start to figure out what's in the range, figure out when the biggest repairs happen and what they are and how much the cost, and then you'll kind of go into it knowing what you're getting into. Get a pre. Pre purchase inspection on whatever car you get so that you don't have to wonder if it's going to have issues later on down the road. And I would think you're going to be in great shape.

[Caller]

All right, thank you very much.

[George Campbell]

Congratulations. I can't believe I got to give someone good news today, Jake.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I love that.

[George Campbell]

So there we go. Let's get to Victoria. Before we wrap here, Newark, New Jersey, what's going on? Victoria, hi.

[Caller]

Thank you so much for having me. Sure. So essentially, me and my husband are looking to start a family, but we're feeling kind of like it's not going to be possible anytime soon with like the financial situation. Not that our financial situation is bad. We just would preferably like me to be a stay at home mother.

[George Campbell]

So going to one income feels tight.

[Caller]

Right?

[George Campbell]

Okay. Yeah. Tell us the situation. You guys have, have any debt?

[Caller]

We do. We have a mortgage and a car loan. The car loan is about 25,000 and the mortgage is about 500,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. And then what do you both bring home every month?

[Caller]

My husband brings in about 165,000 for the year. So about 12,000 gross for them. For them, or 8,000. Sorry, gross for the month. And I'm bringing in 90,000 a year. So just a little bit over 4,000 net for the month.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it. So the question is, would you be able to just live off the 8,000 and maintain the lifestyle that you have?

[Caller]

Right, okay. I'm leaning towards no because we're essentially saving all of my income. So without my income, we would have no savings. We do have a good amount saved and we do have a lot of equity in the house, so we're not opposed to, you know, relocating. But the Northeast is just so expensive, we're concerned that relocating won't even do it for us.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's the mortgage payment? Payment every month.

[Caller]

With taxes, we're looking about 5,000amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, there's your issue. There's your issue right there, my friend.

[George Campbell]

Now you said he takes home 8,000. That feels too low. If he makes 165 gross.

[Caller]

Well, after, you know, 401k contribution benefits, he's walking away with 8.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Is he investing 15% right now? Do you know the amount?

[Caller]

He's only investing about half. Like 8%.

[George Campbell]

That. It just doesn't track. I know taxes in New Jersey can't be that high because he's walking away with less than 100,000 out of 165.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Somehow we still owe taxes every single year as well.

[Jade Warshaw]

So I really don't.

[Caller]

You know, I see the paycheck that comes into our joint account and it's pretty much 4,000 even.

[Jade Warshaw]

You guys got to take a look at that tonight and just say, hey, let's, let's see where this money is going. Because to George is exactly right. I'd be looking, looking at that and saying is, are we investing in an hsa? Are we investing in like, how many different places are we putting invested investments? How much are we paying for health insurance out of this? Is there any, anything else coming out of this that we don't realize? Is the withholding right on all of those things? I, I take a, a steeper look.

[George Campbell]

At a magnifying glass to that. And then what's the car payment?

[Caller]

Okay, the car payment's about 500amonth.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Well, I think there's going to be sacrifices made here either way. If you definitely like you, I'm going to be a stay at home mom, then it's going to look like downsizing, not doing anything fancy and selling this car. Okay, do you guys have enough in savings to just pay off the car today?

[Caller]

We do. We have about 120,000 in cash and savings.

[George Campbell]

Great. What are you saving that for?

[Caller]

We don't know. So that's also my next question. Like, what can we be investing in? Can we get into real estate? Should we just throw everything into the stock market? Like, how can we start making some passive income on this to kind of make the situation better?

[George Campbell]

Here's what you do. This next house you buy and downsize, you'll use that money to then lower your mortgage payment to where it's two grand a month and you get to be a stay at home mom.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So I would not go like you have 19 goals right now. I want to be a real estate guru and be a stay at home mom and I want to invest in the stock market. I would focus on the one thing that you said you want to do, just stay at home. So I would pay off the car today. If you love the car, it's not too much of a your income. But we got to free up that 500 bucks a month so we can breathe when you become a stay at home mom. And so it's sort of pre planning for this new life and then live on his income for a month. See how it feels. Put your income completely aside and go, what would life be like if we had to live just on this? And when you relocate, it's going to make it a whole lot easier to go from five grand to 2500 even.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

So that's the thing to solve for is how do we get get our mortgage or rent to be closer to two grand out of this eight so that we have enough to still live our life, to still invest, to still go on trips, to still save for our kids college, to still knock out the mortgage early. And that's going to mean a different lifestyle than you guys are leading right now. But I think it's a worthy and noble goal and I would definitely do it if I was in your shoes.

[Caller]

We definitely want to.

[George Campbell]

Awesome. Well, once you sell the house, you get some equity, use whatever's left, you know that 75 or 100, put it down on that next one and you get that mortgage down to like 200 grand instead of 500 grand.

[Jade Warshaw]

Excellent.

[George Campbell]

Now we're cooking. Now we can actually have a reasonable payment and you can stay at home forever and not be stretched thin. It's a great goal to have and it's a great reason to do the baby steps.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's always found in the mortgage. The answers always lie in the mortgage payment.

[George Campbell]

That'll get you.

[Jade Warshaw]

That'll get you.

[George Campbell]

Wow. Well, that puts this hour of the show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace Christ Jesus.