“I Want To Trust My Husband, But He Wants To Get Rich Quick"

Summary

The Ramsey Show Episode Summary

Podcast: The Ramsey Show
Episode: “I Want To Trust My Husband, But He Wants To Get Rich Quick"
Date: December 9, 2025
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & Jade Warshaw

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Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show features Dave Ramsey and co-host Jade Warshaw tackling listeners’ financial dilemmas ranging from marital discord over risky investments, handling overwhelming debt, career transitions, generational resilience, and practical budgeting. The central theme is grounded in financial common sense, marital unity, and the importance of perseverance when navigating life’s money challenges.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Marital Trust and Risky Investments

• (00:39-08:32)
  Caller: Nicole from Boston
  Topic: Distrust over husband’s repeated “get rich quick” real estate schemes and growing debt.

  • Nicole’s husband continuously invests in high-risk real estate, causing escalating debt, specifically a problematic apartment complex (~$6M owed, about equal to current value).

    • She’s uncomfortable with the “get rich quick” mentality.
    • Concerned about how to express her opinion without “disrespecting” him.

  • Dave’s Response:

    • Respect does not mean enabling foolishness. “If every time he gets in a car, he drives it into a ditch, you suck at driving. That’s not disrespectful…”
    • Urges Nicole to confirm if their loan is truly non-recourse before "walking away."
    • Both spouses must agree on big financial decisions.
    • “We don’t do deals of size… without both being in agreement, period.” (07:07)
    • If a spouse insists on risky unilateral action, it’s a relationship problem, not just financial.

  • Notable Quotes:

    • “You guys are running on two different tracks and you need to get on the same track.” - Dave (07:34)
    • “Telling the truth—even a good friend would do that.” - Jade (02:24)

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2. Overcoming Debt and Childhood Trauma

• (10:00-19:01)
  Caller: Brett from Flint, MI
  Topic: Fear of homelessness and which debt to prioritize (mortgage vs. student loans)

  • Brett and his wife hold ~$250K debt (half mortgage, half student loans). Brett’s childhood trauma of homelessness fuels urgency to pay off the house first.

  • Ramsey reiterates:

    • Following the debt snowball: prioritize smaller debts first for momentum.
    • Don’t let trauma dictate irrational decisions.
    • Brett’s small business is barely profitable; needs robust action or a job change.

  • Notable Quotes:

    • “What happened when you were a child has no bearing on what happens to you as an adult unless you repeat exactly the same patterns.” - Dave (15:05)
    • “Facts are your friends. You two make close to $100,000 a year in Flint, Michigan … you’re not going to be homeless. It’s an irrational fear.” - Dave (15:16)
    • “Never again. Use the terrifying experience as fuel to never be there again.” - Dave (18:34)

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3. Tax Problems Due to Employer Error

• (22:28-28:58)
  Caller: Aaron from Colorado Springs
  Topic: Wrongly liable for $180K IRS taxes due to employer’s clerical error

  • Payroll error (SSN linked to Shopify account).
  • Facing wage garnishments; prior legal consult was unaffordable.
  • Ramsey urges immediate hiring of a tax attorney:
    • “You can’t do nothing. Nothing is not one of your options. That strategy sucks.” (26:15)
    • “Be the hero of the story, not the victim.” (27:02)

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4. Late-Start Retirement and Debt Cleanup

• (32:06-41:13)
  Caller: John from New Hampshire
  Topic: Age 47, no retirement savings, $52K in debt, just secured a job

  • Highest concern is a $28K motorcycle loan (vehicle is worth less than owed).
    • Ramsey: Sell the motorcycle (even if upside down), get cheap accommodation, side hustle, follow the Baby Steps.
    • “Work like no one else now, so later you can work like no one else.” (40:02)
    • Encourages John that it’s “not too late at 47.”

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5. Balancing Hardship and Generational Resilience

• (53:42-62:46)
  Hosts’ Commentary
  Topic: Critique about Gen Z’s resilience

  • Discuss the generational stereotype that Gen Z lacks stick-to-itiveness.
    • Praises Gen Z’s abundance thinking but notes a tendency to search for “workarounds” instead of perseverance when things get hard.
    • Encourages parents to “teach your children to do hard things” and champions the value of perseverance for future success.
    • “Suffering produces perseverance, perseverance character, and character hope.” (54:33)

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6. Specific Caller Scenarios and Solutions

• (43:13) Cece, 27, dental assisting student in $40K debt: Stopped all work due to school but faces hardship without income. Hosts urge her to work full-time while finishing school: “Choose your hard. Something’s going to be hard, be a big girl and decide.” (50:28)
• (65:59) Brad, inherited IRA: Should he use inherited $450K IRA to pay off $373K mortgage? Hosts recommend paying off the house methodically for security and future wealth-building, not borrowing to invest: “All the data shows to go that way, and common sense says… it just feels different to live in a paid-off house.” (72:03)
• (88:08) Jessica, single mom, three jobs, back living at parents: Encouraged to use her margin (now that rent is gone) to wipe out debts rapidly. “Your numbers are better than you feel.” (95:47)

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7. Money and Marriage: Account Combining

• (109:44-117:47)
  Caller: Logan from Dallas
  Topic: Wife refuses to merge finances after 10 years of marriage due to preference for independence.

  • Dave advocates for full financial unity:
    • “You did lose your independence when you got married… You are now interdependent, thank God.” (112:05)
    • Studies show couples who combine accounts are both wealthier & happier.
    • Not doing so undermines unity, trust, and long-term odds of success.

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8. Other Notable Topics

• (97:34) Kelly, 53, dating long-term but boyfriend refuses marriage: Dave affirms her feelings, notes she’s not “stuck”—moving on will be painful but necessary.
• (119:32) Aaron, mom of two teens: Wonders if expensive “trendy” gifts are appropriate. Dave advises this as a teachable moment: “What are you getting for the money you’re spending? I gotta be convinced you think you’re awesome without this hoodie.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:39-08:32: Nicole – Husband’s risky real estate investments
• 10:00-19:01: Brett – Trauma, mortgage vs. student debt
• 22:28-28:58: Aaron – IRS error, wage garnishment
• 32:06-41:13: John – Late retirement, high debt
• 43:13-50:50: Cece – School, work-life struggle, $40K in debt
• 53:42-62:46: Generational resilience, perseverance
• 65:59-74:12: Brad – Inherited IRA vs. mortgage payoff
• 88:08-96:10: Jessica – Single mom, debt snowball journey
• 97:34-101:55: Kelly – Relationship, marriage commitment dilemma
• 109:44-117:47: Logan – Should married couples combine finances?
• 119:32-128:15: Aaron – Should you buy trendy, pricey gifts for kids?

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Notable Quotes

• On Enabling Spouses:
  “Respect is not turning a blind eye to idiocy.” - Dave Ramsey (01:22)
• On Facing Trauma Through Money:
  “Never again. Use the terrifying experience as fuel to never be there again.” - Dave Ramsey (18:34)
• On Doing Hard Things:
  “Teach your children to do hard things.” - Dave Ramsey (57:11)
• On Marriage & Money:
  “When you agree on spending, you’re agreeing on values, dreams, generosity—unity is missing if you separate accounts.” - Dave Ramsey (113:45)
• On Financial Priorities:
  “There are three things you can do with money. Give it, spend it wisely, save it. You need to do all three.” - Dave Ramsey (80:11)
• On Self-Worth & Money:
  “If no one ever sees me with this, would I still buy it?” - Rachel Cruze (quoted by Dave, 125:28)

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Episode Themes and Tone

• Compassionate tough love; equal doses of motivation and realism.
• Focus on facts, accountability, and avoiding enabling dysfunctional patterns in both money and relationships.
• Frequent humor and self-deprecation by hosts; relatable analogies for financial concepts.
• Advocates for balance: between needs, wants, risk, and relationship harmony.
• Emphasis on action (“Never again”), teamwork, and perseverance—financial and personal.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode offers a wide range of relatable real-world financial struggles—from confusion in marriage and risky investments to cleaning up one’s financial act after adversity. Dave and Jade blend tough love with encouragement, detailed strategies, and memorable analogies, making sound financial stewardship accessible and inspiring for all, no matter their background or circumstances.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washall, number one best selling author Ramsey personality is my co host today. Open phone here at 888 825-5225. Nicole is in Boston. Hi, Nicole, how are you?

[Caller]

Hello. I'm well. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

I'm in the situation where I very much want to trust my husband's judgment on finances and our future. But we've hit like a rocky patch here where we just keep. Well, he just keeps kind of digging us into more and more debt in like the hopes that we'll get out of it one day with some just risky real estate world. And I don't know how to dig ourselves out of that and like maintain respectful marital boundaries doing that. And I just, my opinion kind of gets thrown aside because I'm not as risky. I don't want to take risks.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, it's not the risk. It's the get rich quick. Right?

[Caller]

The get rich quick. I'm not a fan of that strategy.

[Dave Ramsey]

So here's the deal. You're not called to respect your husband. If every time he gets in a car he drives it into a ditch, you go, you suck at driving. That's not disrespectful of your husband as a husband. It's disrespectful of his driving ability. Cause he sucks at driving. So don't get this confused that somehow respect is I'm supposed to turn a blind eye to idiocy? That's not respect. That's just enabling.

Then when you give respect and you give a compliment for something that he actually does right, we don't know if it's real. Cause you also endorse stupid stuff and call it respect. No, no. He can't drive a car. He keeps running in the ditch. Honey, you need driving lessons. And I'm not riding with your butt until you learn how to drive. You suck at driving. That's not really. I mean some version of that. Nicer than that is not disrespectful. That's not disrespecting. The position of that. You love your man. You love your husband. You think he's a good guy. That's just telling the truth. He sucks at driving.

[Jade Warshaw]

Telling him the truth. And even a good Friend would do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

And he sucks at handling money.

His views of money are broken. So that's how you balance it. You don't balance it. You're gotten confused about what respect means. It doesn't mean turning a blind eye to misbehavior or incompetence. That's not respect.

[Jade Warshaw]

So tell us what hole you're in and what he's thinking of doing next to get out.

[Caller]

Yeah, so it's this week that this would be happening. And my answer is like, I don't want to do this. And so his opinion is we have to do this. And so that's why I'm so glad you took my call. Our hole that we're in is that he has a very problematic property. It's always been a problem property and it always takes the cash flow of my small business and his other cash flowing property. But it's hit the point now where we have to max out credit cards, which is against everything, to basically use those to pay for all of the construction, all the things. And now it's hit a point where the threshold so high we have to take out a bigger loan to just cover everything to try and get it to sell.

[Jade Warshaw]

How many properties? How many properties do you have total?

[Caller]

We now have three. And we've been trying to get rid of this one for a while. It's just a troublesome property.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you owe on it?

[Caller]

$6 million.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what's it worth?

[Caller]

It just got appraised at like, like just over six. Not much though.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it residential or is it commercial?

[Caller]

It's an apartment complex. Residential.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so.

You can't sell it for what you owe on it.

[Caller]

We can sell.

Just takes so long to sell them like it always takes over a year to get the packages put together. So he says, again, I'm not in this world. I don't know what this all really means. Which is why I wanted to ask if we just walked away from those mortgages. But here, take it like we're not personally liable for it. It's business liability we have.

[Jade Warshaw]

But that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you sure you're not personally liable for it?

[Caller]

I am. I'm 90% sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm not.

[Caller]

Okay. Again, this is why I don't know what they make.

[Dave Ramsey]

They make non recourse loans, but sell them as small as $6 million. If it's a non recourse loan and you can walk away from it. Yeah, I just walk away from it. Because it's not worth what you owe on it. If it's a non recourse loan. Put the keys in a shoebox and tell them to come get them. But I don't think it is. I want you to be sure you're not personally liable.

Just because it's in an LLC doesn't mean he didn't sign it personally.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think it's a non recourse loan, but I can be sure before I did that.

[Dave Ramsey]

But if your numbers are correct, okay, if it's an $8 million property, it's going to take a little while to sell it. Then let's sell it for seven million or six and a half and get a little bit out of it and sell it. But if your numbers are correct that it's worth what you owe on it and your only option to keep the thing running is to go deeper in debt again and this time personally in order to fix up this property.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's the option.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm not doing that. It's good money after bad is what you're thinking and I am too, but I don't know. I want you to verify the numbers and I'm not sure if you're just pissed off or if that's the real numbers. So I want you to get in there. Well, I want, I want him to say it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Because what happens if you tell him, hey, I want to start the process of selling this today. I don't want to do.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're not, I'm not going to borrow money on it. No, we're not that. Okay, that's off the table. Now what are we going to do? We're going to give it back or we're going to sell it as is. What are we going. Which one are we going to do? Well, we can't give it back. I did sign personally. Oh, crap. Now then you got to sell it, right? Because you're going to get your butt sued. So. But if you, if it's a non, if it's a non recourse and it truly is worth six before I put another million into this sinkhole. Yeah. And this is a lower income property and it's a pain in the butt to manage. I can tell by the way you're talking about it.

You got a bunch of crummy renters and it's not, it's not a, it's not a fun property to own.

[Jade Warshaw]

And by the way, if you say your opinion on this and do what Dave said and, and your husband says that that doesn't matter and he goes ahead and does what he wants to do that's also your signal that you guys need help beyond. This is no longer a money problem at that point, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. We don't do big deals. We don't do deals of size, whatever size is at the Ramsey's without both being in agreement, period. And at the Warshaws as well.

[Jade Warshaw]

Facts.

[Dave Ramsey]

We don't give large sums to a charity or a ministry. We don't buy things of size without talking about it. And the things that we buy that aren't of size, we have talked about it in the form of it's a category and a budget. So it fits. And so, you know, you can buy that beef tenderloin, it's in the food budget, but that's, you know, whatever. So. But because, yeah, that's the whole thing. So, Nicole, the deal is this, you guys are running on two different tracks and you need to get on the same track. That's first and foremost as far as the particular property goes. Then that if you get on the same track, that'll better inform what to do with the property and you'll feel better about if you decide to keep it and work it and you use some of the cash flow. But so far it's not been a blessing, it's been a curse.

[Jade Warshaw]

But Dave, I liked how you set up the very beginning because we get that call a lot about a spouse feeling like it's being disrespectful to go. To go in the opposite direction of what their spouse is saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't know. We're hillbillies, so arguing is an art form. So I don't know. I mean, we.

I do not think my wife is a bad Christian wife because sometimes she looks at me and goes, no, I don't like that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely no.

[Dave Ramsey]

That means like she's a full grown woman with an opinion is all that means.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hello.

[Caller]

Hey, y'.

[Dave Ramsey]

All.

[Caller]

You know I'm all about keeping your budget in check, especially during the holidays. And that's why I always start my grocery shopping during the holidays at Aldi.

[Jade Warshaw]

From fresh produce to holiday favorites and.

[Caller]

Charcuterie boards for parties, Aldi has it all.

[Jade Warshaw]

And at prices that will help your family save big.

[Caller]

Up to $4,000 a year for a family of four. So do what I do for my family. Shop at Aldi first to save on groceries without sacrificing quality or holiday joy. Find a store near you@aldi us that's a L D. I dot us savings.

[Dave Ramsey]

Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability, and the market.

Brett is in Flint, Michigan. Hey, Brett. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm all right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can I help?

[Caller]

So between my wife and I, we've got approximately 250 or under $250,000 in debt.

Most of it resides in our mortgage and her student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is it?

[Caller]

I had a weird childhood, so I'm kind of really terrified of being homeless again. Is it stupid to pay off the mortgage before the student loans? I know you can't like bankruptcy the student loans and you can sell the house and that kind of stuff, but it's not stupid.

[Jade Warshaw]

I would not categories categorize either idea of paying off the debt as stupid. I think it's smart that you're thinking in those terms of being debt free. Can you tell us how much of the 250 is the mortgage and how much of it is the student loans?

[Caller]

They're honestly both about 108.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then we've got. I've got a small personal loan because my mower on my business kind of crapped out. So I had to spend a bunch of money just so I could fix that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got you.

[Caller]

That's about 2,900.

We're trying to sell the trailer that we were living in, but we've got about 700 left on the personal loan for that.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, where.

[Caller]

What else do you have like 4,000 on the card?

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what you were living in a mobile home before?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what. What is it up for sale for?

[Caller]

We're trying. We have it up for sale for 40 right now. We haven't really had too much interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

For how much?

[Caller]

We're talking to 40. A lot of the clays trailers in the park that we're going for are selling for like 66. 60 to 66.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you owe on it?

[Caller]

We only owe 700 more on it. 700 we still have. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how long has it been for sale?

[Caller]

Two or three months.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Have you had nibbles in October, so roughly then?

[Dave Ramsey]

Had nibbles?

[Caller]

Not really. No. I also don't think our realtor is really trying too hard to sell it either.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you need a new real estate agent. I think you need a realistic price. And I think you need to get rid of that dadgum thing yesterday. That cleans up a whole bunch of stuff, man. Even if you took 30 for puts 30,000 towards all this debt. Right.

[Caller]

That's kind of the goal is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. What's your household income?

[Caller]

My wife is consistently at about 60. My business kind of fluctuates. So I'd say roughly between like 25.

[Dave Ramsey]

And 25 kind of work.

[Jade Warshaw]

What kind of business?

[Dave Ramsey]

You make $25,000 a year?

[Caller]

I do. Well, that's just what the business. Because it runs just partially, it's lawn mowing. So then during the winter. I was doing snow plowing last year, but my truck for the plowing kind of crapped out on me. So now I just got a job for the winter. I'm looking for another job right now also, but that. That job's only like 15 an hour.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're making. You're making 25 or $30,000 a year, and she's making 60?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And your business is not doing that well?

[Caller]

No. This year was a little rough and weird. My sole employee, his sister got married out of the country. He told me about it a while in advance, but just because the time period, I couldn't take on more work. So that way I didn't destroy what reputation I had by not showing up. But by the time he.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, so hire somebody and fire him if he's not gonna be at work. Get somebody. Get somebody comes to work.

[Caller]

Well, it was only for that, like.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it destroyed your business. Your business is that freaking fragile. Don't defend it. The guy don't come to work and it messes up your whole summer. You gotta get somebody to come to work, man. You gotta get through. You gotta get this thing in gear. Your business sucks. You are not making any money. You're starving to death. You're making a dollar an hour, and you're working your legs off. So you got to get that profitability up this coming year, or you got to go get, like, a real job and shut this thing down because you're not making any money. So let me ask you this. So can we classify the fact that you were homeless as a child as trauma? Would it be okay to call it that? Yeah, it was traumatic, not just dramatic. So that's what makes you think about losing your home and wanting to pay it off before you pay off all this other stuff, right?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, what happened when you were a child has no bearing on what happens to you as an adult unless you repeat exactly the same patterns.

And so Dr. DeLoney says he does a lot of trauma work. John Deloney, that's on the air here with us. He says when you've had trauma and your body starts thinking you're right back there again, and your shoulders rise up and you get tense across the neck and Your heartbeat changes and, and your eyes start to dilate because it feels like it felt when you were a kid, but nothing like when you were a kid was going on. Then you need to stop and say, facts are your friends. The facts are that you two make close to $100,000 a year in Flint, Michigan. The facts are you only have $108,000 owed on your mortgage. Very reasonable. The facts are you've been struggling at your business and it's not doing great, but you do have a good solid income. You're not going to homeless. That is an irrational fear.

And we don't act on and we don't make plans based on irrational fears.

That's not wisdom. So, no, you need to list your debts, smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. Kick your business in the butt and get it running. And if you don't have employees that show up and don't work, get you some more and get this thing going and let's go, you know, and let's get the truck fixed and snow plowing, let's get the lawnmower fixed without going into debt to do it. And let's keep this stuff going, start making some money, start stacking some cash and knocking this stuff out left and right, left and right, left and right, and being proactive and playing offense and playing for the super bowl instead of going, no, I think we're all going to die. We're not going to die.

[Jade Warshaw]

Brett, do you have a budget?

[Dave Ramsey]

Nope.

[Jade Warshaw]

And we'll send you one today. Okay. We're going to get you started with every dollar because you're going to need that in order to know how much margin you're putting at the smallest debt, which looks like it's 4,000 on credit cards. That's your first one. But you're not going to do it if you don't know how much to put towards it. And every dollar is going to help you do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

What I would do, Brett, is this. When Sharon and I went broke and lost everything and filed bankruptcy and the electricity got cut off and the water got cut off and the house was in foreclosure, it was terrifying.

And the way we chose to look at that was we will never be here again. Because we are going to analyze how we got here and repeat exactly zero of those steps. Never again. That became our mantra. We wanted T shirts printed. Never again is American Express going to call my house. Unless it's a wrong number. I hate those people. Never again am I doing business with a large bank. One of these super banks, they will slit your throat and watch you bleed out and call it sport. Never again am I going to be beholden to idiots and buttholes like I was. Never again am I going to be. So that's what you do. You look back at your childhood and you go, never again. And I'm going to get on a budget and we're going to get out of debt and we're going to work like maniacs. Work six jobs. We're going to sell so much stuff, the kids think they're next. Never again are we even gonna be close to homeless and quit borrowing money. It puts you back in that mode again. Never again. And, you know, you can use the trauma, use the terrifying experience as fuel to never be there again.

Or you can sit and go, we're doomed to repeat this. Now, you're not doomed to repeat it. Unless you repeat, you know the same. Unless you repeat the same habits that put your parents there.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Which, by the way, was borrowing a bunch of dadgum money was one of the things they did.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, that's what I was gonna say. The reason he's feeling that way, the reason those alarm bells are going off is, is he's doing things that he knows he shouldn't be doing and he's starting to feel the effect of it. So he needs to listen to what his body is telling him, which is, dude, you're running. You're about to run off a cliff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep, yep, yep, yep. That's a warning sign. Yeah. Stop it. Never again. Never again, Never again, Never again will I be there? No, thank you. You don't have anything I want badly enough to go into debt to get it. To put one of you idiot bankers in my life. Never. Never.

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Well, if you feel like you're always starting from scratch with Your money. Trust me, you're not alone. It's not because you aren't disciplined and you aren't inconsistent. It's because you're emotionally overwhelmed. Emotions are part of the program and learning about those and dealing with that is part of dealing with the person in your mirror. And when you do that is when you are able to get out of debt and build wealth. No one has talked about that better around here than our own Jade Washaw. Her brand new book, what no one tells you about Money, gives you a clear guided process to diagnose the emotions, deal with them, break the old cycles and shows you a system to make that plan easier to follow. It's kind of like that guy we were talking to a minute ago.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

He needs a new system, needs a new way to handle the emotions of his childhood.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yep. He was stuck in fear.

[Dave Ramsey]

There we go. You can pre order the book right now. It's wonderful. I love this book. $24.99. Get over $100 in free bonus items including the enhanced audiobook. Now let me tell and we do an enhanced audiobook here. We're like audio people, we're production people. So this is not going to be boring. You're going to love this audiobook. It's amazing. Early access to the E book. You'll get instant access to exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade. And you can have an exclusive three week online book club with her as well with live Q and A. Pre order today at ramseysolutions.com, we'll ship them to you 1st of January, ramseysolutions.com store the book is what no one tells you about money. And you need this in your hands. It'll make your new year better. Aaron is with us in Colorado Springs. Hey Aaron, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm having a day. How are you doing, Dave?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So for the past three years, I've had a lot of issues with the IRS and the Colorado Department of Revenue. My former employer that I worked with for 27 years, somehow my Social Security number got tied to their Shopify account. And the feds as well as Colorado State have been coming at me for the last three years on back income tax that I owe them. And today I received notifications.

My apologies. They're going to start garnishing my wages.

And I'm just in a tough spot. And I've reached out to my former employer multiple times to try to fix this and they've done nothing to to help Me.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what does the IRS say you owe them?

[Caller]

Over $180,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does the Colorado State say you owe?

[Caller]

Right now they're saying $13,000 and some change.

Okay, but the 13.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make a year?

[Caller]

Right now I'm making about 130k.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Were you a partner in the former business in any way?

[Caller]

I was not.

[Dave Ramsey]

You were simply a W2 employee?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, dude, you need to hire an attorney.

[Caller]

That's what I keep on thinking.

I just try to.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, today. Today you should have called them before you called us. You need to get a tax attorney. Someone that does taxes, and they need to call the Colorado and say, look, look, if you garnish this guy, we're going to sue you for $20 million because it's not his debt, It's a clerical error, and you can't garnish him. There's nothing to be afraid of, honey. You don't know the money.

It's not your money. You don't know it. It's an error by your former employer. And you're probably going to sue them. Get them off their butt, too, but. Joyful, joyful, Light some people up, baby.

[Caller]

I know. I contacted a tax attorney about six months ago. I put a lot of faith in this business here in Colorado Springs because I, you know, they're a Christian business, and, you know, when I talk to the tax attorney, they're like, well, it's Gonna cost you $6,000 out of pocket for us to do it. And I was like, I just can't afford that.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can't afford not to do it because Colorado's getting ready to take $6,000 out of your butt any minute. Yeah, you may as well give it to an attorney and fight back.

Yesterday, why did you wait six months?

Did you think this was just going to go away? Honey?

[Caller]

No, I. Honestly, the IRS keeps on sending me notices saying that they're working on it and they need more time.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

You. Actually. Here's what just came out of your mouth. You just said the IRS is competent. That's hilarious.

That's a funny joke.

[Jade Warshaw]

And that they're going to investigate this for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

The IRS is going to help you.

Come home, man. Really? You know who's going to help you? You, starting today.

So either call that tax attorney back or get a new one. And you need to. Somebody needs to be in touch by the close of business with Colorado so they don't start garnishing your dadgum wages, man, because here's what you get. Doing nothing Somebody will do stuff to you. You can't do nothing. Nothing is not one of your options. That strategy sucks.

So either call, either call that tax attorney back or get online at Ramsey Solutions, find one of our tax pros in the area and have them make a recommendation. You need legal representation by the close of business today. They need to be in touch with somebody and say, hold on, junior, this guy does not owe any money. This is a clerical error. And if it can't get fixed by working directly with the tax institutions, you may have to sue your good Christian former employer who can't seem to help you get rid of $180,000. That does not qualify as good Christian, by the way. Hello?

Pissing on your employees does not qualify.

Hello?

[Caller]

Thank you, Dave. I, I, I, I hear you. I appreciate it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Dude, you need to be the hero of the story, not the victim. Get up and get him.

Because this is not going, it's not going to fix itself, man.

Okay? It's not, this is not, there's no, there's no, there's no tooth fairy that's going to land in here that the tax ferry is not going to come visit you and fix this. You're, you're going to have to be like a grown up and go attack with a vengeance. Otherwise it's gonna take you down. Because you don't wanna screw around with the IRS for the next decade.

[Jade Warshaw]

And they're wrong. You're in the position of power. You're right. You have the information. I just feel like your countenance is very low. As though everybody else knows more than you.

[Dave Ramsey]

As if you have no options. You're the one with all the options. But listen, you hire an attorney who gets excited about this. Not one who's like, oh, no, no, what we're gonna do if that's the attorney, fire them before you hire em. You want an attorney gets mad like I.

[Caller]

Oh, I appreciate that, Dave, more than you know. And you, your book changed my life and made me a believer.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want you to know that I appreciate that. Hey, hit this thing right in the nose and see if it'll bleed.

[Caller]

Okay, I will.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Knock it down, knock it down. This is, this been, this has owned you every waking moment for the last year, hadn't it?

[Caller]

The last three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need free, you need to be free from this. And the only one's going to set you free is you.

With action. Okay? So get on Ramsey Solutions, talk to one of our tax pros in the area, tell them what your situation is and you Tell them I'm fired up about it. So Dave's fired up about this. Okay. And get me an attorney that's fired up. You want an attorney that even you don't really like. That's the kind of attorney you want. Okay. You want one that pisses off everybody because that's his job as an attack dog. Sick. Em. All right. Her job. Whatever. Get it? And that. That's. Man, she.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's crazy. He's letting these. The IRS could care less. Number one.

[Dave Ramsey]

None of these people could care. No one is incompetent bureaucrats.

[Jade Warshaw]

No one. Yeah. No one's thinking about this.

[Dave Ramsey]

He's including the former employer. How embarrassing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Horrible.

[Dave Ramsey]

We accidentally did that to one of our people here.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would be so embarrassed that I would have fixed it in 20 seconds.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And somebody would have got fired.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Hello. Wow, man. Wow. Not if it was an honest mistake, but it goes on a long time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

$180,000 too.

[Jade Warshaw]

He's been losing sleep for three years.

[Dave Ramsey]

We didn't sell, like two paintings on Shopify here. This is like. There's something big going down here. Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you want something done, sometimes you just gotta do it yourself. Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. Every time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can't be waiting around every time.

[Dave Ramsey]

You gotta do it yourself. When you guys listen. When you know something's wrong and you kick it, you. You put. You kick it up under the rug. Kick it up under the rug. You know what you get? Lumpy rug. That's what you get. And these things have a high rate of resurrection. Like 100% chance it's gonna resurrect. And it looks like a zombie when it comes out from under the rug. Now go ahead and kill it now so you don't have to deal with.

[Jade Warshaw]

The.

[Caller]

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[Jade Warshaw]

They share the Ramsey values of helping.

[Caller]

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[Dave Ramsey]

John is in New Hampshire. Hey, John, how are you?

[Caller]

I am doing good, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my main concern is of retirement. I am 47 years old and I was laid off from my job in early December of last year. I don't have anything in retirement. I had to kind of use the retirement. I had to survive until I was able to get a new job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Have you gotten a new job?

[Caller]

A new job now? Yes. I have not. I have a job now. I started in.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm making 80 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

And I'm also in the process of interviewing for a better job that if I get it will be about 1 10ish here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great.

[Caller]

That's all good. But I have nothing in retirement and I've got some debt and I live with family right now. So between needing to get a house of my own and retirement, getting out of debt, I'm just kind of worried and not sure what the best way to accomplish all that is, especially at 47.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're single?

[Caller]

Yes. Single, no kids.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much debt?

[Caller]

Total debt? 52. Just over 52.

[Dave Ramsey]

On what?

[Caller]

That is a mix of credit cards and then two vehicles. And I know one vehicle is a motorcycle that needs to just go away. I understand.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much do you owe on the motorcycle?

[Caller]

28. 8.

[Dave Ramsey]

28,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Holy smokes.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So that's half your debt.

Wow. Okay. And how much do you owe on your car?

[Caller]

Just over 9,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's good news.

Okay. And so that's 30. 37. So what? And you got 20 on credit cards.

[Caller]

14.

[Dave Ramsey]

14. Okay, cool. Any other debt that I'm missing?

[Caller]

No, I believe that covers everything. Just normal things that are month to month, like insurance and.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Streaming services.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Well, I mean, the glaring thing is the motorcycle, isn't it? Obviously.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So it's half your debt and it's not needed and all that. So. Yeah, that thing, you need to get that sold before Christmas. Somebody needs a new Christmas present with your motorcycle. So.

[Caller]

With the loan.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I wasn't kidding, man. I mean, really, you need to get on the stinking motorcycle right now.

[Caller]

With the loan that I have on it, obviously nobody's gonna pay more Than what the. What the bike's worth and more than what's it worth and just buy a new one. It's worth about 25. Okay, 24. Ish. Not. Not a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

So who do you owe the 28 to?

[Caller]

That is America.

What is it, American?

It's a credit union.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, good. Okay, well, swing down. Is a local branch there?

[Caller]

No, I recently in April moved to New Hampshire from Vegas.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Call the credit union back at the hometown and say, hey, guys, I'm upside down three grand on this motorcycle. I gotta get the thing sold. I need to sign a note for the difference.

I'm gonna send you 25 and sign a note for the difference. And y' all need to release the title.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And get that. Get that arranged with your. They'll do it with your ma. Get them. Credit union manager on the phone. And then you just sign up whatever it brings you send them all the money, and then you sign a note for the difference. Now we're down to 3,000. Okay, that's good. That's gone. Quickly, quickly. This is like glaring bad thing right here. Out of all your stuff, nothing's really stupid except that one. And that was like super stupid right there. Okay, so now then you're going to get an apartment, the cheapest you can possibly get and be out on your own again, like a grown man making 110,000, 80,000, or whatever you're going to be making and somewhere in between.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then we're gonna clean up this debt, then we'll build an emergency fund, and then we're gonna start socking money away, and you're a millionaire when you retire. Is that okay?

[Caller]

So it's not too late at 47?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, it's not.

I'm 65. That's so insulting.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's your. That's your homework. That's your homework. When you get off this call. I already played around with the numbers for you, but I want you to do it for yourself. If you're going to be making $110,000 a year, you know, taking home around seven, you invest 15% of that. A thousand bucks a month, 1050. And that's assuming you're never going to increase your income, which is false. You're going to keep getting better and better, but even if you did a thousand bucks a month for the next 20 years, you're going to get really close to a million bucks. And you're going to do better than that. Right?

[Caller]

Right. So I want that job. My home in the middle of the.

[Jade Warshaw]

You'Re going to get the job. And if you don't get that job, you'll get another job.

[Dave Ramsey]

You've already got one making 80, right. Okay. Just, you know, then take three more extra jobs until you get the, until you get the new job. Just work all the time, man. Clean up is mess.

[Jade Warshaw]

You need to look, you need to look at the future. Because looking at the future is going to motivate what you do right now. Because if you look at that number and you say, you know what, that's not good enough, then that's going to motivate what you do with your income going forward, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep.

[Caller]

Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

You can play around and say, well, what does it look like if I invest 1500? What does it look like if I invest 1800? Right. And that's going to inform what you do today. Same thing with the debt. Plug it into every dollar. See how long it's going to take currently. And if you're not happy with that, you get to change that. You get to side hustle. The good news for you is you're single and unattached and you're at your sister's house. So you need to be working like 20 hours a day.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You won't die from hard work. Right. Before you die, you'll pass out. So just work all the time. My grandmother used to say it was a great place to go when you're broke to work. I want you working, working, working, working, working. What's my name? I'm working John. That's all I do. I work, I get out of debt. I'm building wealth. Cause I'm 47 and I don't wanna retire and eat dog food. I'm working, working, working. And you'll get this mess cleaned up. You'll have an emergency fund.

And the lights will come on because right now they're a little dim.

The hope that's not in your voice is bothering me more than your numbers.

[Jade Warshaw]

And the reason that Dave and I sound the way we sound is because we hear every day people doing this and they're successful and they turn it around. And we know that you can too.

[Dave Ramsey]

You can do this, John. So we're going to put you on the upgraded version of every dollar. Hang on. We'll have Christian pick up and take care of you and get you on the budget, but get the motorcycle. So get five extra jobs or three extra jobs. And work. And work, John. That's your name, man. And we're going to list our debts, smallest to largest. We're Going to attack them with a vengeance. We're going to get those credit cards out tonight. Light a candle and have a plastic to me. Party. Chop those puppies up and let's move on, man. Let's move on. It's time to do something different. So if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. The last thing you want to do is be calling me at 57, living at your sister's house, broke. So let's get after it and fix it now. Time to do it it. You can do it. You can do it. And you're right, Jay. The beautiful thing is you and I have the unbelievable honor of getting to meet heroes every day who looked in the mirror and said, time to change something and didn't wait around on, you know, they weren't sitting, they weren't watching the news.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

They were working.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And many of them in a worse situation than John. So much worse. So the time, the time is a guy like him, you got to remember the time is going to pass anyway. The time between now and him retiring. Right. God willing. And he gets to choose what he's going to do with that time. He can be the same, worse off or better. And those are your three options.

[Dave Ramsey]

And here's what's weird. If you absolutely. I mean, we're poking fun, a little bit at it. But if you work like a crazy person, like ridiculous hours, you work like no one else. Later, you can work like no one else.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, when I work kind of when I want to. Hello. You know, and that's because I got financial peace a long time ago. And I don't owe any of these stupid banks. They're not calling me up. I don't have, you know, all this stuff coming at me that I can't handle. It's not because my life's perfect. It's just I built a life that said, I'm not going to be beholden to you people that are screwing everybody. You, car companies. I mean, who loans a guy $28,000 on a motorcycle who lives at his sister's? I mean, come on.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, to be fair, I don't think he lived at his sister's yet.

[Dave Ramsey]

A banker ought to have his butt kicked up around his neck. Oh, my God. Seriously?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And guess what? The motorcycle went down in value. Oh, I'm so shocked. So, yeah. The good news about him, though, I mean, John's got it made half his dadgum problem is one stroke. Yeah, one stroke. And the fact that he didn't have a job for forever, and that's not okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

That messed him up. Yeah, well, that's what got the credit card debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yep, sure is. So this is. Guys, you can do this stuff, but listen, if you want a different result, you have to put in a different recipe.

If you keep baking a cake and it keeps turning out vanilla and you wanted chocolate, you need to change the recipe. Hello. You keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect a different result. That's the definition of insanity. That's what the 12 Steppers say, and they're right. Don't keep doing the same thing over and over. I just can't seem to get ahead. Well, then quit doing the same dadgum stuff. Hello. You gotta change something. Throw some dynamite in the middle of it. Let's bust this thing up, man. It's time, boys and girls. It's time.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Cece's with us in Cleveland. Hey, Cece, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hi.

[Caller]

So, can you hear me?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, ma'.

[Caller]

Am.

Okay, so I'm 27, and I'm in dental assisting schools, and I also own an online boutique. But I'm starting to pay for my mistakes I made when I was younger. And they were terrible. Like, I'm $40,000 in debt, and I was like, I don't know What? So half is from my car, a Honda Civic. I'm financing it. So 20k.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you owe 20,000 on your car?

[Caller]

Yes. And then I was so young. I was young and dumb, and I decided to lease a Mercedes and, like, 23 years old. And when I returned the lease, the wear and tear, the miles and all of that, I still have to pay for that. So that's about $10,000.

And.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how long ago was that?

[Caller]

That was. I returned that car in 20. 23.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so they're not happy with you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right. Two years ago.

And. And then what's. What's the other. That. That. What's the other 10,000?

[Caller]

So I did take out a student loan for about 5,000 because I'm in dental school, and that's what we paid for half, so I had to take out a loan. And then the other amount is just from, like, personal loans and credit cards, and I'm not working right now. I lost my job. So I'm like, should I file bankruptcy or should I just drop out of school and just.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you in, I don't know, school for $5,000? I don't understand.

[Caller]

For dental assisting, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, dental assistant. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I never knew any dentist that went to school for five grand.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you paid three out of pocket and got a loan for the other five.

[Caller]

Well, fast food pays for the three, and then I had to get along for the other.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and what. What. What were you doing that you just got fired from?

[Caller]

Well, I didn't get fired. I decided that I was going to quit my job and run my business.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, how much? Because your business is bringing in a lot of income.

[Caller]

It was until I quit my job and start having to pay my rent with the money I made for my online business.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, what are you making from the online business right now?

[Caller]

I'm not making anything because I just put it on pause, but I was making about 300.

[Jade Warshaw]

Why are you stopping.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why are you stopping all the things that make money? This is so illogical, because it's so.

[Caller]

Hard to juggle school and running a business. And it's like I'm.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not running a business. You stopped it.

[Caller]

Well, it was, but before I stopped it, Before I stopped it, it was hard because. Listen, okay, hear me out. The profit. I started using it to pay my rent in my car and all of my insurance. So it's like, now I can drop because I'm using.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, let me. Let me go back. Let me go back. So you're a Student. You're a full time student. Can you work at least part time? At the very least? Because you got to live. Because what's the other option? Right. Because if you stop working at the other job, you stop working at your business. What are your options to put your lifestyle on credit? Right. And that's what you've been doing.

[Caller]

Yes, I know. Not working.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know. That's why I'm telling you, you got.

[Dave Ramsey]

To go back and get the job that you quit. What were you making of the job you quit?

[Caller]

So I was a correctional officer for about three years, and I was making about 4,000amonth, but it's just I wasn't happy.

[Dave Ramsey]

And now you're really not happy because you don't have $4,000 a month?

[Caller]

Yes, because I'm broke.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So here's what you need to do. You need to go get a job, any job.

[Caller]

So here's the thing. Hear me out. I got an offer at the post office, and they pay a pretty nice amount. It's just. I'm scared it won't work with school.

[Jade Warshaw]

Try it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So. So quit school. You need money.

[Jade Warshaw]

Cece, you called me and asked me.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you wanted to file bankruptcy. That was your question. And then you're telling me you don't want to work and you want to go to school.

Wrong answer.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it just you, Cece? It's just you?

[Caller]

Yes, it's just me. I've been doing everything since I was like, 17.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you're living by yourself or are you living with someone? A roommate? Or is it just you?

[Caller]

No, I'm by myself.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. You got. You got to do this. And the good news is, and I told the other guy this who called in, it's just you. You don't have to get home to a kid, to a husband, to a grandma you're taking care of. It's just you. So you all. This is time management. This is the problem, time management. And you understanding that this is gonna be hard for a season. How much do you. How much time left in school?

[Caller]

I graduated in June. That's why I don't wanna quit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then stay in school and work full time. And let you for six whole months. Wah.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's it. And let your goal just be. I'm working and I'm going to school and I'm paying my rent, and I'm just doing these what I'm gonna call ch, just typical adulting tasks. I work, I go to school, I pay my bills, and that's it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So something's going to be hard. The wise person chooses the hard thing they want to do instead of the hard thing happening to them. You're gonna have something that's painful and hard. Ready, set, go. Now you decide which one you want it to be. Now, I would rather be tired and a wee bit stressed from working all day and going to school than as broke as you are and scared as you are. That's hard. So I would choose not to be where you are and choose to work full time and go to school like a crazy girl and then get out in June and go live your best life.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Let's talk realistically about your schedule. When you do the dental assistant thing, is it daytime? Are you going at night? How does it work?

[Caller]

So right now I'm in night school. That's the thing that's stopping me from finding a great job.

[Jade Warshaw]

Job that you're at night.

[Caller]

Five to nine? Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

What time is the post office job?

[Caller]

So I start Monday, and it says 8am Uhhuh.

[Jade Warshaw]

Perfect.

[Caller]

Someone told me that the post office. You can work 12 hours a day, six days a week. And that's why I'm scared somebody told you something.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you start at 8am you want to know when you're probably off work.

[Dave Ramsey]

3, 4.

[Jade Warshaw]

4 at the latest, which means you can hop over there and get to your class at 5. You can grab a bite to eat. Don't. Don't not do this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because somebody told me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because somebody told you because. Do you want to know what that tells me? I'm gonna tell you. I'm being your friend right now. If an excuse that's that vague is enough to make you stop, it's because you don't want to do it to begin with. It's almost like you were looking for an excuse not to do it. That's what that tells me. So you have to want this for yourself. Cece. I'm looking at the numbers, I'm looking at the schedule. You can do this. You got the job. Eight to four, max. Hop over there, do the school from five to nine. It's six months. Like Dave said, you can do this. It's gonna be hard, but you can do this.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is.

[Jade Warshaw]

You have to want to do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Choose your hard. Something's gonna be hard. Be a big girl and decide which one you want it to be. Do I want to be sitting here terrified, broken, and. But you can't just be randomly walking out on stuff, you know, just go. I don't think I want to work anymore.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, the pattern is here's. The pattern it got. Each one of them got too hard. You were the corrections officer. It's tough, man. It's mental load. I can understand that probably is a tough job. But it got too tough. You left. Then you started doing the online business because that seemed easier. You did it for a while and you realize, oh, this is harder than I thought. I'm having to use my profit. I can't invest my profit back in. I have to use some of it. It got hard. You quit that. Now you have this job on the table that could really break you free. And you're thinking, you haven't even done it yet. You're just thinking it might be hard and you're about to bail on that. That's a pattern, CeCe. It's yours to break.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's going to be hard. Buckle up, buttercup. It's going to be hard. It's going to be worth it. Suck it up. Go get it, girl. You can.

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So one of the criticisms of Gen Z has been that, and I disagree with it, by the way, because I disagree with the premise, but I'll go ahead and lay it out there is that Generation Z, their 20s are not resilient, okay? They don't stick with it, do hard things.

[Jade Warshaw]

As a generation this is what people are saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. It's one of the criticisms that they don't know how to do hard things and they don't stick through and persevere. And that is somewhat. Sometimes true. Our last caller is an example. Right. So no question. She just didn't want to do hard things. And you said you got to do hard things. If you live like no one else later, you can live like no one else and rejoice in your suffering. The Bible says. Because suffering produces perseverance, man.

[Jade Warshaw]

What? Yes, Keep going.

[Dave Ramsey]

And perseverance, character.

[Jade Warshaw]

I've been talking about this, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

And character, hope. And hope is a gift of the Holy Spirit. So, yeah, so there's a lineage. Suffering creates perseverance.

[Jade Warshaw]

Maturity is what some of the versions say.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly, exactly. So the.

The thing is, what I have found is We've got about 5,600gen Zs working here on our team, and they're the good ones. There's two kinds of Gen Zs, awesome and sucks. Right? And we've got the awesome ones. You can get the good ones. They're good. When they're good, they're good. And they're abundance thinkers. They believe that anything's possible because they've carried around a magic wand in their hand their whole lives. And if they push a button, stuff happens. And so the first time something does get hard, sometimes it's a lack of resilience, sometimes it's a lack of perseverance. But sometimes it's like, what's the point in doing something hard? Because there's probably a workaround.

[Jade Warshaw]

There's a lot of tools. I can do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

For me, there's some way I can work around this and not have to go through that. And it's the way their mind, it's the native nature of their minds, the way their minds have been programmed to live. And it's really not a bad thing. I mean, because really you should stop and go. Is there an easier way to do this?

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Dave Ramsey]

And, you know, is there a workaround? What's the hack? Right.

[Jade Warshaw]

Work smarter, not harder.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's smarter? I mean, why do I just keep running into this wall and call that perseverance? No, I should probably walk around the wall. Hello. And so no, me, I'm just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You know, I got dad gum, rhinoceros or something that's brain damaged. And so, no, you could just move over there and walk around. You don't have to hit the wall, dummy. It's concrete. And so. But they're really good at looking for the workaround and looking for the hack. And sometimes that has caused them to be accused of lack of resilience. And I think that's a wrong conclusion.

[Jade Warshaw]

I can agree with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now sometimes there's a lack of resilience, there's a lack of, you know, stick to it. Push through. And so really what this comes down to is if you're a Gen Z or if your parents of teenagers right now that are walking around with a magic wand, they do not know a world where they can't push a. But they've never experienced a world where they can't push a button and stuff shows up on their porch in 24 hours. They don't. If you want to know what the temperature is, we used to have to go outside and look at the thermometer and we came back in and went, it's cold. You know. Now you just push the weather out. Right. Anything you want to know or anything you want to do is a magic wand in your hand. So if you parents are doing that, what I suggest.

As a parenting thing, because it becomes a part of their success principles that they're going to live their life for. Teach your children to do hard things.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Put something in front of them that's hard. And 100% of the time that any of us are doing something we've never done before and it's hard. I'll tell you what rises up inside of you. Frustration. And then it can with me, I just get angry. Not at someone, but I just get pissed off. I can't do it. I've never been able to do this. And trying to learn a thing with a sport, trying to hit the golf ball a certain way. Oh, God. And I have to just stop and go. It doesn't matter. Okay. The secret to happiness is low expectations on the golf course. Right. But persevere. Push through, push through, push through until you get a callus. Push through, push through, push through until your brain is tired, your emotions are tired.

Learn to do hard things. Those that are 30 years old and under in the next 25 years that know how to do hard things will be running the country.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, they'll be running the country. And the rest of you that don't learn how to do hard things will be following that them in doing what you're told like a bunch of sheeple. And so learn to do hard things. Marriage for 50 years is hard.

It's hard. And anyone tells you this is a cakewalk is a liar. Okay. There are times that you want to kill each other. Literally. I mean, I'm not talking metaphorically. I'm talking about. I want to be.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, you're right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And hide the bottom. There are times parenting is hard. I mean, now that I've got grandkids, I'm really glad I let them live. But there was a question a time or two whether they were gonna live through this or not. You know, it's worth it. Go ahead, parents, let em live. Cause they'll bring your grandbabies. And it's worth it. Let em live. Don't kill em. But. Yeah, but man, this is making me.

[Jade Warshaw]

Feel way better about myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's hard. It's hard, y'. All. Managing money and saying no to yourself so that you can say yes later. Tough is hard.

Not filling up the cart on Amazon and hitting submit is hard. I want it. And I work so hard. Call the wambulance. You work hard. Everybody works hard. You little whiner. You know, oh my God. That's the one that's inside. I'm a little drama queen. I work so hard. You don't work hard. You don't even know what hard work is. You've never done any hard work. Hard work. Never. I work hard, everybody. That means you went to a building all day. That's all that means.

[Jade Warshaw]

Everybody does it. Yeah, everybody does it.

[Dave Ramsey]

There was no sweat involved.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now, that's a word. And you drove there in the air conditioned car.

[Dave Ramsey]

I work hard.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's perspective.

[Dave Ramsey]

So do some hard. Do some real things that are difficult. You know our friend Michael, what's his name? Esther.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Easter.

[Dave Ramsey]

Easter. Easter. Is that right? Wrote the book Comfort Crisis. Yeah. Read Comfort Crisis. We have a crisis in the culture because we've become so. We've worked so hard to become comfortable, and now we're so comfortable, we don't know how to do hard things.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you have to practice the hard things.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's like we have to go from our 72 degree kitchen to our 72 degree garage to our 72 degree car to our 72 degree office. And we call that hard. No. And really, there's no starvation involved. There's no. No one's hungry. I mean, there are some hungry people out there. Don't miss. But I mean, most of you listening to me right now, you know, you got your $800 iPhone and you're not, you know, and you can't complain about, you know, living like. You live like 1% of the world. Top 1%. So do some hard things. Those that know how to do hard things will always be leading those that don't.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I also think there's personal dignity in it. I mean, there's just certain things that it's good to do, even if you could do it easier, even if you could have somebody else. Like, for instance, okay, it's. It's winter. All the leaves are falling off. We could probably pay somebody to come clean up the leaves. But we have to teach our kids that it's good to do hard work.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah, you can pick out stuff like that. I didn't do all that, but I mean, I did.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you know what I'm saying?

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, you've got to do the hard thing, whatever it is. It can be a mental challenge, it can be a physical challenge, it can be an emotional challenge. I don't want to go over there. She doesn't like me. Oh, well, tough. Learn to work with difficult people. They're everywhere, so you might as well get used to that. So here's a plan. Deal with that. She's mean. Oh, well, there's gonna be a. She's mean everywhere, believe me. So you gotta learn to handle. And that's part of do hard things. Emotionally hard, physically hard, spiritually hard, whatever it is. But the diligent are the ones that prosper, and diligent is excellence over time. Diligent, prosper. That's. The Bible says that. Okay. And so you're going to prosper when you learn how to do hard things with excellence over time. Because when you do the things that other people won't do, you'll always have the things that other people don't have.

Had dinner with my friends the other night. It's her 50th wedding anniversary.

They've done some things that most people won't do to get to that point. They put up with some stuff off each other to get to that point.

[Jade Warshaw]

Didn't commit murder.

[Dave Ramsey]

They didn't. They didn't kill each other. They threatened to. They didn't kill each other. It's worth it. It's worth it. They got some things that other people don't have.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family. If the Worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long term disability insurance. Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married. It's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years and so is my family. So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

If you're working the baby steps, the best and and the fastest way to do it is by using every dollar. It's more than just a budgeting app. It is the plan built in. The Ramsey plan is built into it. You track your progress. You get personalized recommendations and coaching, and we're going to help you free up more money. Work the plan faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. Start everydollar for free. Download it in the App store or Google Play. Brad's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey, Brad. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey. How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I inherited about $450,000. Wow. It's in an IRA. Inherited IRA. So I have to pay taxes on it. But I think I'll have enough to pay off the house afterwards. I want to know if it's better to invest that or if it's better to pay the house off.

[Dave Ramsey]

How. How much do you owe on your home?

[Caller]

So. 373.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you would have. Yeah.

No, no, you won't either. It's gonna. You're not Gonna get that much out of 450. So it's all taxable at ordinary income. When you pull it out.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's gonna put you in the top. It's gonna put you in the top tax brackets. So it's 30%.

[Caller]

So I'm pulling it out a little bit at a time. So I'm gonna do it over like a. A four or five year period to where I can stay in that 22% tax bracket.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't think you're going to be in a 22% tax bracket if you do that. That's 100,000 a year. I don't think that's a 22% tax bracket.

[Caller]

So it would be better to look at investing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, that wasn't what I was saying. I'm just questioning your tax numbers is all. There's not an inheritance. There's not. So have you talked to a tax person to help you run this out?

[Caller]

I did, and that's where I got the 22%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, then maybe I'm wrong. Okay, what do you make? What's your household income?

[Caller]

So we're about 120, 130. He told us about. Since it's married filing joint, it'd be about 228,000, give or take is what the 22% would be for us with the standard deduction.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

All right. All right, I will shut up then. Okay, so you can pull 100 a year out for four years.

[Caller]

Yeah, roughly.

[Dave Ramsey]

And keep it at 22.

[Caller]

Okay, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right.

Now back to your question. Then.

We surveyed and did research. The largest research project on millionaires ever done in North America, 10,167 of them. The number of them that said I borrowed on my house to invest in the stock market and that's how I became wealthy was precisely zero. None of them did that. Instead, they work systematically to get out of debt and systematically to invest while being debt free. That's what they. Almost every one of them, like 89 percentile. So that's. The data tells me that the smartest thing to do, what millionaires typically do, is to pay off the house. And so I would pay off my house if I were in your shoes. And then I would use that increased cash flow to build wealth with. Because you don't have a house payment anymore. Because your house payments are. Got what, 4000, 3000 bucks?

[Caller]

We're at 23.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So, yeah, rounded up to 3000. Put 3000amonth into a mutual fund after your house is paid off and you have a million Dollars in that one account in no time. That's $36,000 a year. That's. That's legitimate investing. Okay, so, yeah, that. No. So the answer to your question is I pay off my house as soon as I can, and I want you to go back. I'm going to have to pull it up. Are you pulling up tax brackets?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I'm looking at it. What you find? 206. Married. Finally married. Filing jointly. 206,000 to 394. 24%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, he said. He said 22.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah. Okay. All right.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you're right in there.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, I'm. This is why I don't do taxes, because I suck at it. Okay, well, then, no, it's always cheap either way. Yeah. So, yeah, avoiding bracket creep is the smart way to do this. There's no reason to give them extra money. Is it invested in good mutual funds?

[Caller]

So I've got it invested right now with Fidelity. They're managing the account, and I've got it on a low risk because the market's been doing pretty good.

So I didn't want to. I didn't want a market turn and then lose the inheritance.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not going to lose the inheritance. With the market turn, you might lose some of the gains, but you won't lose the inheritance. So, no, that's. There's not been a market turn where the market evaporated. There's never been one. Even in the Great Depression, the stock market crash, the market didn't completely evaporate. It just went way down. So now you're not going to lose the inheritance, but you might lose some of. I mean, I might lose $10,000 or something. But. But no. So make sure it's invested in something good. That's not. Because this market's going zoom, zoom, and you really do want to be in on it while you're sitting on it because you're dumping. Because you're going to do this over four years, make sure you're in at least an index. At least. And maybe a little bit more risk than that. It's where I would be anyway. So. But. But if you're doing that, yeah. You're going to be beating up on this tax bracket thing and running that, running that. As soon as you pull it out, though, dump it on the mortgage. As soon as you pull it out, dump it on the mortgage. The day you can get it out, January 1st, boom. So you could take some this year, some next year. Right. So right now you got three weeks Span you can get. You can two hits on.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, that's a good idea.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you can pop some this year, some next year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's in the next month. You could put 200,000 on this. And I would. I definitely would.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'd just ask more questions, too. I'd want to know why he landed specifically at 100,000 when he still got that window up against the tax bracket.

[Dave Ramsey]

His income plus 100 out of this puts him right at the bracket creep. That's what he was saying.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, it puts him right in the middle of the bracket. It puts him right between at 22.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the 22 max?

[Jade Warshaw]

22 max is 206.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's what he said. Yeah. And he makes like one something.

[Jade Warshaw]

He makes 120. So if he took 100, he'd be over it already.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it'll be quite a hundred, then. It'll be just under that. But yeah, he's going to run right up to the edge of the 22s. We said. Okay, that makes sense.

[Jade Warshaw]

Just be careful.

[Dave Ramsey]

That sounds like it's good advice. Sound like you got it nailed down. But yes. The bottom line is I'm going to pay off my house before I invest. I would not borrow on my home to invest. And it has the same exact mathematical effect if you don't pay off the house and you instead invest. So, no, I would not. I'd get the house paid off. All the data that we have shows to go that way, and common sense says to go that way. And when you lay your head on a pillow in a house that you don't know anything on, it feels different. I'm just saying.

[Jade Warshaw]

I say it all the time. When people come up against hard times, you know, whether it's Covid or they lost their job or there's a diagnosis, the number one thing people think about is, can I keep my house? Is my home going to be okay? Is my house going to be all right? That's the number one thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not how my mutual fund's doing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Nope, nope.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't ever ask that. I didn't check my mutual fund. That never comes up.

[Jade Warshaw]

They want the security of their home being stable.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think there's something about it being stable that adds to.

The. Adds to a lot of things, for one thing. But it adds to career choice.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because I don't have to put up with this crap so I can go over here and make more money. And you just feel, I don't know, you get a little more swaggered. Up. You're freed up a little more swagger in the marketplace when you. When you don't do that. So, yeah, I would. Not to mention, you know, relationally, number one cause of divorce. Money fights, money problems, money stress. Don't have that. Don't have mortgage. Hello. Not as much and not as much chance anyway. Oh, by the way, what's the number one cause of death in America? That'd be hypertension, heart attack, that kind of stuff. Right. And guess what?

[Caller]

What?

[Dave Ramsey]

Low blood pressure. You got lower blood pressure when you don't have a mortgage.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

I actually don't have any data on that. One of these days, we need to get with the medical community and do a little study on the medical cost. Your medical bills resulting from the anxiety caused by debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

That would be groundbreaking.

[Dave Ramsey]

What would be the cost? What's the real cost? My interest rate's a good deal. Not anymore. Not once you run the medical bill on top of it. Yeah, that's a different thing. So, I mean, just chill.

[Jade Warshaw]

Take someone's pulse. Like put a. Put a meter on them as they're signing for a car note. Yeah, see what's going on with those vitals through the roof.

[Dave Ramsey]

Check the brain waves. See if there is one.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, those fell off. Those fell off the chart.

[Caller]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

Finally, mortgage rates have dropped. And you know what that means. People who've been sitting on the sidelines are about to jump back in to the housing market. So if you've been waiting to buy, this could be your window. But you've got to be prepared and do it the Ramsey way. You need to contact Churchill Mortgage. Their home buyer edge program gives you peace of mind. In a wild market, you can cap your rate for 90 days. So if rates go up, you're protected. If rates go down, Churchill will drop yours automatically. And get this, Churchill will even back your offer with a $10,000 seller guarantee. So if your loan falls through due to financing, the seller still gets paid. That's how confident Churchill is. Plus, when you shop as a Churchill certified home buyer, it's stronger than pre approval. It makes look like a cash buyer, which makes your offer rise to the top. So don't let this moment pass you by. Get ready now. Go to Churchill Mortgage.com to get started today. That's ChurchillMortgage.com this is a paid advertisement.

[Jade Warshaw]

Own buyer edge and seller guarantee are.

[Dave Ramsey]

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Our question of the day comes from why Refi defaulted. Private student loans don't just disappear, but you can actually take control and make them disappear. Why Refi offers low fixed rate refinancing that gives you hope and a clear path to make them disappear. Go to y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not in all states.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right, today's question comes from Hayden in Pennsylvania. He says, my wife and I recently got married and bought a home. Home. We're debt free other than the home and have a fully funded emergency fund of about 19,000. Our combined income is approximately 10,000amonth and our expenses are only around 3,500. We spend around $450 a month on eating out and entertainment. Now I'm the saver and I find it very hard to spend on items that I don't believe are needs. My wife loves to think about ways to decorate our first home. And given that we're debt free, besides the home and investing 15% our retirement, what strategy should I put into place regarding how much cash we could wisely spend on furniture? I'm happy sitting in the dark living room on a lawn chair reading financial statements. But you're cooler than me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Nerd.

[Jade Warshaw]

If this is terrible. He says you're cooler than me and will answer the question in a way that will ease my anxiety and also help our marriage. Oh, yeah, we're going to help your marriage because if you continue down this track, it's not looking good for you, buddy.

Yeah, you guys are doing fine. You're doing good. Baby step four, investing 15%. Love all that. The fact that you have all of this margin is fabulous. $10,000 coming in, 3,500 going out. Dave, when I think of things like this, I, I like thinking about it in terms of what I'm going to call just kind of a financially responsible adult checklist. And this is a checklist that needs to run in the background for people who are either nerdy, like this guy who's got Tidewatt syndrome, or, you know, people who just have a hard time trusting their instincts. Maybe they've made a lot of bad mistakes in the past and they're just getting, getting comfortable with the idea of doing well with money. Number one. And it's following the babysitter. Number one. Are you a person who's on a budget? You're on your budget every single month. You're checking in with your budget. You're Utilizing your budget. If that's yes. Check. Green. Green light. Light. Next thing. Are you a person who's out of debt and you're not entertaining things that allow you to go into debt so you're just a debt free lifestyle? Yes. Check. Are you a person who's carrying the proper insurances? I'm guessing you are. I'm guessing you have your life insurance, your wills, everything's in place there. Great. Green light. Next thing. Are you person who is doing all the ways that we say to save money? You've got your three to six months check. You're investing 15%, a form of saving. Yes. You've even bought a home. Another forced savings account. Account. Green. Check. Very, very good. And are you a person who's prioritizing generosity now? I did not see that in the things that you talked about that could help. So that's one that I'd put a little question mark. If you are doing those five things, you are what's known as a financially responsible adult. Which means when there's margin left over, Dave, you can use those. You don't just have to do needs, needs, needs, needs. There are some wants that you need to throw in there, there. And you can do it in a. You can trust that you'll do it in a responsible way because you've been responsible on all the things that matter. So, yes, give your wife some money to decorate this house. You're not going to go into debt over it. You're not going to sacrifice the things that you need and that make you a responsible adult. So yeah, do it. Get the couch.

[Dave Ramsey]

There are three things you can do with money. You can give it, you can spend it wisely and you can save it. You need to be doing all three of those things. And when you're not, you're not in balance and you're going to blow up at some point or somebody around you is going to blow up. You could live in a lawn chair in your living room. She can't, so she won't be living with you if you keep this up. That's how this works. Okay? So financially responsible adults. I do not understand it. My joke was I do not understand china dishes that we never eat on. And I really don't understand a $3,000 cabinet to put the dishes in that we never eat on. I don't have to understand this. You don't have to get it. You just have to get it because.

[Jade Warshaw]

You speak Raptor, you have to go get it.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't speak China, I speak raptor. I speak gun. I don't speak purse. So, yeah, so I don't have to get it. I've just got to get it. Happy wife. Happy.

[Jade Warshaw]

And remember, what's it all for? Like, otherwise. Why. Why are you doing this if you can't enjoy any of it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's not. It's part of him enjoying it is allowing his wife to enjoy it. We have a line item in our budget. Continuously decorating. Yeah, we're continuously decorating.

[Jade Warshaw]

Never stops.

[Dave Ramsey]

For 43 years, we've been continuously decorating. I haven't always been aware of it, but we have been continuously decorating because the window treatment was finally. I gave up and admitted it. Okay, okay. Now we're actually doing it. So we're going to put it in the budget. And this is the number. You can do up to this per month or you can not do it for three months and still spend the total of those dollars. I don't care. But this is the amount. And I have the same thing for whatever my little thing is. Right. I'm going to go buy a gun or I'm going to do whatever with it.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you both agree on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fun stuff. That's having fun with money. And it has an agreed on amount.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, you both.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then there's no thing. So you put a little fun category in there and do that.

[Caller]

That.

[Dave Ramsey]

And no, you're not being irresponsible. Jade's got you checked off. Exactly right. And he's making fun of himself to his own credit. I'm a nerd. He's saying. He's saying I'm a nerd. And he knows he's a nerd. That's good. But most men can live under a bridge. It doesn't bother us. And so we don't need drapes. I mean, we don't understand. It's like shades will do, you know, so cheaper shades. But yeah, but I don't understand. I don't know why it has to. Oh, well. And so it doesn't matter if I understand or not.

[Jade Warshaw]

You don't have to.

[Dave Ramsey]

I have figured that out. So. So, yeah, you need a budget for a line item for generosity. It doesn't sound like you have that. And you do need a budget line item that you've both agreed to and then you shut up about it. No whining about it. I gave you $500. You don't give her nothing. She married you.

[Jade Warshaw]

There you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we decided we are spending $500 a month. We decided we're spending $1,000 a month. We decided whatever. To decorate our new home.

[Jade Warshaw]

And he'll probably like it. The truth is, you're fine on a lawn chair, but I think, you know, it warms up the house. I mean, you like the stuff that Sharon picks.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not. No. Not equal to what it costs.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, I'm scared of you when you go home.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I'm not. I don't. I truly. I'm not as bad as this guy, but I truly don't.

[Jade Warshaw]

You don't care.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would not have spent that on that chair. Not in a. Not in a million freaking years. But that's okay. I'm happy and she's happy and we've got the money. So it's okay. It's okay. Everybody's to going good. And she does not understand some of my obsessions either. So it's okay. It's all right. It doesn't matter. The point is, you need to enjoy as a couple, your money. And you need to be generous and give your money and you need to be constantly investing and saving. And you are. And so we know you got that one. And so, yeah, there's three things you can do with money. Teach little kids the same thing, by the way. Teach your little kids to give, to save, and to save. Been.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm on it now.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a hard. That's a hard one. But if you get them there, they'll be happy adults.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Yeah, they will. I'm working on it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good balance. Good balance. Alyssa is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Alyssa. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm thrilled to be here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good to have you. How can we help?

[Caller]

Well, I want to know how I should quit working on my business or keep going.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you making? Are you making money money?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much are you making? What's your total dollars coming in in a month?

[Caller]

Like 500amonth.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long you been at it?

[Caller]

I've been working on it like really hard, like three months. But I was like lightly doing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is the business?

[Caller]

It's a digital marketing business because I want to work from home because I'm a homeschooler mom, so I want to work in the afternoons.

[Dave Ramsey]

And did you buy some kind of package or something to do this worth multi level?

[Caller]

Well, I. I promised my husband I wouldn't like spend over a certain amount, you know, so I'm almost to that limit. And now I'm questioning, like, should I keep going? Because I bought like a course and like professional zoom and like the website things and it's like Slowly trickling. And most importantly, I have to find someone to watch my children in the afternoons so I can have time to work on the business. Plus I'm working on a weekend and my husband is graciously watching them. And I'm like. I don't know if I'm just at the low part of starting a business.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Caller]

Or if I should just keep going.

[Dave Ramsey]

No. There's no mystery to it. Henry Cloud says in his book Necessary Endings that when you lose hope that things are going to get better, it's time to end whatever it is.

So whether that's a relationship, a job, a business, and so you've got to give me a reason why you think this is going to start making 5,000amonth. Month. Because you're making a dollar an hour right now. This sucks.

[Caller]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

So you gotta really you're to solve for. I'm gonna make these final three moves and get this to $4,000 a month or I'm not gonna go. Oh, it just takes a while. No, it doesn't take a while. You got to go get this stuff.

[Jade Warshaw]

Done and have a plan.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And you could have gone and gotten a part time job and made a whole lot more. So I, I kind of. To think you bought an Internet thing that you read and I think they sold you a bunch of crap is kind of what it sounds like to me.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit union studio Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washaw is my co host. Ramsey personality number one best selling author. Jessica's in Springfield, Michigan. Hi Jessica, what's up?

[Caller]

Hi Dave. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[Caller]

Yeah, I am Colleen. I am a single mom with a rally little toddler son. But I won one income and been working three jobs and trying to do the baby's and I just feel like I'm like in a. And I'm not like a rut or just, just not getting anywhere where I kind of feel like try not to get emotional with it but I just feel like I just sometimes have failed this kind of where I'm at right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, I don't think you failed. You might be tired, but I don't think you failed. So tell me about who's. Who's watching the baby when you're doing all this work.

[Caller]

Yeah, so I actually just moved back home with my parents. I kind of had help like save money and I actually don't. Yeah. So how old are you actually? I'm 36.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much child support are you receiving?

[Caller]

I do not get any, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Caller]

I had a bad lawyer. I feel like we, we actually have joint custody but I don't actually get any support so.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what do you make at your day job?

[Caller]

Yeah, so my full time job I make about 50, 53,000 and then with my side, I do have two side jobs that like I make about 58,000 a year alone at those two. No, sorry, like 58.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your side jobs only make $5,000 a year?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Make anything. It's your side jobs. Okay.

[Caller]

No, they're both contract jobs and one of them I honestly just need to get rid of. They. There's really no work there anymore. But I work my full time job. I work between anywhere between 10 to 20 hours over time each week with that.

[Jade Warshaw]

So what do you. When you bring home your, when you get your checks for the month, what's it total for the full month?

[Caller]

For the full month. They typically are about after taxes about 38, 3800 is typically where I sit.

[Jade Warshaw]

So what you're, you're home with your parents and they're helping you out. And that 3800. What's it going towards?

[Caller]

Towards debt right now. And I am, I am still, I'm paying my rent up until this, actually this last month which, which I'm paying for an empty apartment in Alabama. But I do. That's Another thousand dollars I will be getting my. In my, in my pocket.

[Dave Ramsey]

She had a thousand dollar rent back, back in Alabama. And now what, what else was the 3800 going to?

[Caller]

Student loans and. Student loans and medical debt and credit card debt is where.

[Jade Warshaw]

That tell us the total.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much student loan debt do you have?

[Caller]

Student loans is right. About 28,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

And how much medical?

[Caller]

Medical is about 3,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how much credit card.

[Caller]

Credit card is 8,500.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. You know, I'm hearing this and like, the more you're saying it, the more excited I'm getting because you're getting this help from your parents. The thousand dollars you're going to get back in your pocket after this month, you know, next, next month you can knock the medical debt out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Car Deb debt.

[Caller]

I do have a car debt. It's. Yeah, it's. It's 8,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. That's not bad. And how's the car running? It's all right.

[Caller]

Yes, runs great. And I've, I mean I, I've gone through the fip university and I, I debated selling my car, but I do, I hate to travel back to Alabama monthly. So having, having a car for my.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why do you have to travel back to Alabama?

[Caller]

What it's, it's crazy is I still have to take my son for visitations, which his, his father doesn't really care as a sad thing.

[Jade Warshaw]

So his dad won't come to you where you are. You have to buy. Is it by court order that you have to go to him?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is there a way to go back and change any of that?

[Caller]

There's. I, I have debated going back and going back to court, but it was like an 8. 8,000. I'm sorry. I'm so emotional.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. That's all right.

[Caller]

It was like, it was an $8,000 lawyer bill.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long were you all married?

[Caller]

We were not married, thankfully. Like, thank God that we were not married because I dodged a bullet on that one.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay. Okay. And so you're talking about the travel. That sets you back a little bit.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, so. So did you get attacked? How long, how long have you been gone from Alabama? Gone from him.

[Caller]

We just moved back in May, so about, about seven, eight months, I think that's.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you get a tax refund last year?

[Caller]

I did. Yes, sir, I did. I believe it was shy of 3500.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I want you to go to HR and change your W2 by $300 a month and bring 300 more home to 4100. That would help a lot because that's what you're giving the IRS too much every month out of your check, you're giving them too much money, more than you owe.

[Jade Warshaw]

And, and let's get you on a budget because I think when you get on a written plan, you're gonna see that living with your parents right now, which I think is a good move for you right now, all of your money is your. I mean, are they charging you anything? Have they said you need to do this or that?

[Caller]

No, I mean, I help like with groceries and stuff and so if you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Take $1,000 a month to live on and put $3,000 a month towards these bills, the medical bills are gone in one month. Three months later the credit cards are gone and three months later the car's gone. So seven months from now, you're debt free, accept student loan.

[Caller]

Right. That would be amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then that's exactly your number.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then in another eight months, this. Student loans are gone.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you're looking at 16 months, 17 months on this.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you can stay there that long, you'll be debt free and be able to go get you an apartment and start your life.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you get an extra job that's reliable and legitimate, where you're making some serious money versus, versus the crappy ones you've got now, now you can accept, you can accelerate that speed.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so here's what, here's what's happened. Your emotions and your body physical reaction is still living back there with the doofus boy.

Okay? I'm sitting here in your future, Jade. Sitting here in your future. And it's so bright, I need to wear shades.

See, because I'm looking out six months from now and you're debt free.

[Jade Warshaw]

But student loans, and by the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is not scary or crying numbers. Those are happy numbers, excited numbers, celebration numbers.

[Jade Warshaw]

And don't get hung up on the six months because you're going to feel it after this month when you pay the medical debt. You're going to start feeling it right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

As soon as you start doing the buck this month, no medical debt next month, half the credit card's gone or a third of the credit card's gone the next month. The third. The next month. The third, the next month. So seven months it takes to get the car and the credit cards and the medical bills down to just the student loan.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're okay. You're okay. It doesn't feel like you're okay because your life has sucked for so long, but now just look out into the future. And I see a really cool future.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

The rearview mirrors got manure in it. Okay.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

But the future's bright.

Okay, so you're coming out of the manure pile. Riding a pony, kiddo. Here we go. All right.

[Caller]

Yes, you're okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, you're okay. Your. Your numbers are better than you feel.

[Jade Warshaw]

Huh?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you. Do you hear the math? Do you hear the math?

[Jade Warshaw]

I do.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Just suck. Just breathe that in and hold it. You're okay. We're gonna set you up on every dollar. And if you need to call us back, you call us back. We'll keep walking with you. But you can do this. This is very doable. If it was bad, we'd tell you.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

We'd tell you the truth. Around here. We love you enough to tell you the.

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Kelly is with us in Cincinnati. Hey, Kelly. What's up?

[Caller]

Hello, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

I'm 53 years old. I've been dating my boyfriend for about two years now. And the idea of long term commitment in marriage has been coming up. We're both financially stable, no debt, lot significant amount in retirement accounts. And he is just straight up against marriage. He got burned bad before everything he did, he actually. He really got burned bad. And that was. I mean, that was 20 years ago. 25 years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But he still lives in that.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Was he upfront about that? Has he been upfront about that? The fact that he doesn't want to be married?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you were thinking maybe he could change his mind?

[Caller]

I thought I was. Okay. And now I'm like. But it's not. I mean, I understand. We both, like. We both have kids. They're almost all adults. We both are financially stable.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's so heartbreaking.

[Caller]

And obviously.

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I'm sorry.

[Caller]

So I'm just stuck, right?

[Jade Warshaw]

No, you're. I mean, you're not stuck.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not stuck. You've already. You've already decided who you are, and he decided who he is. And that's a bad thing. I'm sorry.

[Caller]

Yeah.

You know, I wish it didn't feel bad.

[Dave Ramsey]

I thought. I wish it didn't feel bad too. It's. But it feels awful. It hurts because you really. I mean, you like the guy, obviously, might even say love the guy. But I would just say, you know, I thought I could be okay not being married, and I'm not okay. And you're not okay talking about getting married even, or getting counseling for what happened to you. I'm not her. And I feel like she's being held against me and against the institution of marriage. All. Marriage is not bad. All relationships are hard, including marriage. But all marriages are not bad. All people don't mistreat each other the way she did. So his conclusion is ill founded.

It's based in scars and pain and. And he's. He's unwilling to address it.

[Jade Warshaw]

But here. And here's the other part of it, Kelly. Here. And I'm thinking about this just from a. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't want to have to convince somebody of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you see what I'm saying? Like, even if you laid out some sort of a, hey, if you don't do this, I'm walking. And then if he decided, okay, I'll marry you, that doesn't feel good either, does it?

[Caller]

No, it doesn't. It doesn't. Because I've thought about that.

[Jade Warshaw]

That, you know, that's the tough part. It's tough. I'm not gonna lie. I. I feel for you.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry.

[Caller]

And it's. It's. It's a few years in the future still.

[Dave Ramsey]

But.

[Caller]

I don't know, I'm. I'm not 20. Well, I mean, you've already want to waste those years.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did you say three years?

[Dave Ramsey]

I wouldn't. No, there's no. There's no few. There's no. No time in the future. It's. You've been dating for two years. Two years, and you figured out it's not a match.

And so you start.

[Caller]

All right. I was hoping you were gonna just give me some magic to convince him that it was.

[Dave Ramsey]

That it was. But I'm kind of.

I think it is good. And I think it's him. I think if I were. If he was on the phone, I would tell him to sit down with a therapist, sit down with his pastor, and start reaching towards some healing from his past. Because he's hurting. The scars are dominating his thought pattern rather than his bright future, and he's about to lose a great gal because of it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Have you mentioned that to him? That maybe there's some healing that needs to take place? Place?

[Caller]

No, I don't think I've ever actually said those words. He. He had a long term partner who didn't require marriage, and I think he just kind of settled into that and then they broke up very easily. Right. I mean, it was, hey, let's go our separate way.

[Jade Warshaw]

So he's never been actually married before?

[Caller]

No, no, he was married and then.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then he had a long term.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it.

[Caller]

Then he had a long term relationship there that she didn't require him to marry. And then she just kind of said, okay, I'm out. I'll see you. And he was like, oh, okay. And he's like, see, I didn't have to go through a divorce. I didn't have to pay a lawyer. This is great. This was so wonderful. And I'm like, but that's not the commitment I want.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. This is. Yeah. I'm sorry.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right.

[Caller]

Well, I appreciate you taking my call.

Call.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. Thanks. Thanks for calling.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, that's tough.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is hard. It's hard.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's. That's tough. It's. You. You have these conversations early and often, and he did say it. He said it from the beginning.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean, he can't argue with a guy in terms of his honesty, but that still doesn't. It's just not a matter.

[Jade Warshaw]

Painful. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I think the thing is, the only thing I might have done if I. Looking back on it, I'm trying to look backward on this is maybe, you know, know a little sooner in the product rather than investing two years. And because the heartbreak is more extreme the further you're into it, so. Ouch. Ouch. Lynn is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hey, Lynn. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey. Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

I would love. We would love your opinion on if it makes sense in the current housing market to sell our Airbnb.

[Jade Warshaw]

Tell us more. Why are you thinking of selling it?

[Caller]

So I lost my job. My position was eliminated about six weeks ago, and I'm currently looking for another job. But if it doesn't, I don't think I'm going to be able to make as much as I was. So if it doesn't work out, we would definitely have a profit from selling the Airbnb and we could definitely live on that for a while.

[Jade Warshaw]

But.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or does Your husband work?

[Caller]

He does.

[Dave Ramsey]

And what does he make?

[Caller]

He probably makes only about 37 a year. And let me explain, because he. He had a business. We moved into South Carolina about a year ago. He had a business, a distributing business, and we were living on. Mostly on my income because I was at the company for a very long time, and they told me that, you.

Know, it would work remotely.

And regardless, they did eliminate my position. So he's working at a local supermarket and a receiving area. And what were you making for a higher paying job? I was making probably 90.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doing what?

[Caller]

I was an executive admin to a.

President of a company.

[Jade Warshaw]

Now, what made you say that? You probably won't make that again. That's a crazy statement.

[Caller]

Because in South Carolina, I was a. I did that my entire life.

And just.

Just step into a position. An executive admin position. You're not. I'm not going to. There's nothing available currently here that I've looked at in the last six weeks, two months. That starts at that level.

[Jade Warshaw]

Understood. What do they start at?

[Caller]

More 40, 50.

[Jade Warshaw]

Interesting. Okay, back to the Airbnb for a second. What's it worth?

[Caller]

Probably 200.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what do you owe on it?

[Caller]

112.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where were you living before?

[Caller]

So in Pittsburgh, is that what you mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And why did you choose South Carolina?

[Caller]

Two of our three daughters live around the corner from us, and one lives in Charlotte, so we needed to be near them and near our grandchildren.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is Airbnb in Pittsburgh?

[Caller]

No. So we bought it in 2020 so that I could come down here and work and be. Be close to the grandkids when I came down. And then when we moved down here last year.

We.

Decided to Airbnb. Well, actually decided to Airbnb.

[Dave Ramsey]

The answer to your question simply, yes, I would sell it. Okay. But then the other. The other thing I want to address is, number one, your husband needs a different position, and number two, I. Your set of assumptions. I'm.

Frankly, I'm very familiar with Columbia and I'm very familiar with Charlotte, and I'm frankly shocked that you haven't seen any executive positions anywhere. Assistant positions over 40 or $50,000. That's. I know if you go to Charlotte, you would. And that might be your and a half North. Yeah, well, that's where one of the other kids lives. I heard that. And so you'd be an hour and a half from your grandkid over on that side, but being next to the kid that's in Charlotte. So if you need the income. But I don't know what you all need to make to survive and so forth, but on the back end of your career. But I.

It is a, it's an interesting observation, 30 years of doing this, that people, when they lose a job for some reason always assume they're going to make less. They never assume it's an opportunity to make more. I don't know why that is.

[Jade Warshaw]

We've had all those years of experience. I would think.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now Columbia is not a huge market, but it's big enough that there ought to be somebody over 40 playing for an executive assistant. That doesn't feel right. So. But I think it's just a belief system. You're just like, oh, I'm always going to make less because I'm not in Pittsburgh. Well, I mean, that's pretty snobbish. So South Carolina doesn't pay what Pittsburgh pays. Yes, they do. So hello.

It's one of the best times of the year. But it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's just buy, buy, buy. So you start swiping the credit card and suddenly it's January and you got a mess on your hands. Don't let that happen. Tell your money where to go instead of wondering where it went with our budgeting app. Every Dollar. Every Dollar not only helps you stay on budget and in control of your spending this holiday season, it also helps you find extra margin in your budget. Thousands of dollars of it. And every day will coach you to build better money habits and attack your goals faster than ever. So while most people will be starting in January with a taste of regret in their mouth, you'll already be winning. Start everydollar for free by downloading the app today.

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. Hey, interest rates are down, boys and girls. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's happening in the housing market. Well, we're here to tell you the latest trends. The latest trends are that home prices held steady last month. 424,000 is the median in October, about one in five houses saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room in the winter to negotiate. Snag a better deal. That's generally true around December. Mortgage rates are at five and a half in October. Nice. To learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you, go to ramseysolutions.com market and we got all the market data on that there. Facts are your friends don't listen to the crazy friends of yours. Don't listen to all the crazy. All the whining and the carrying on. It's nuts. Just go find out what the facts are and you'll be amazed at how housing is still there. It's not all gone. Your life isn't over. Everything's okay. Logan's in Dallas. Hey, Logan. How are you? Hey, Dave. I'm good.

[Caller]

I'm doing well. Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

So my wife and I, we've always had separate bank accounts.

And my wife is against combining to one shared account. But lately she's been stressed because she hasn't been able to help out as much as she used to with the bills. So I'm wondering what sort of alternatives we might have.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long you been married?

[Caller]

We just celebrated our 10 year anniversary this year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why is she against combining accounts?

[Caller]

Because she's told me that she feels like.

If she combines her bank account, she would feel more.

She. She wouldn't feel as independent.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why? She doesn't think you're going to count her vote?

[Caller]

She. She doesn't. She doesn't think that. She doesn't want to spend my money.

[Jade Warshaw]

How.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not your money. It's our money. We got married.

[Caller]

I know.

[Jade Warshaw]

How'd she grow up? How'd she grow up?

[Caller]

She grew up in a. She. Her mom and dad are still together. They have separate bank accounts though as well. She's kind of following in there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, let me. Let me give you a couple things. Number one, the data tells us, when we did the largest study of millionaires ever done, that people who combine accounts have a much higher probability of actually becoming millionaires.

And 89% of the millionaires surveyed said that were married said that one of the reasons they became wealthy is they worked in alignment with a spouse that was cooperative and combined everything. And so the marriage vows, or the old marriage vows are true. In the old book of common prayer, they used to say, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health. We've all heard that one. But in the old ones, they would say, say unto thee, all my worldly goods I pledge. In other words, we're all in. We're gonna share everything, the same bed, we're gonna share the same house, we're gonna have flu at the same time. We're gonna be all in. Okay? And we share bank accounts. And it's not your money and my money, it's our money. My wife has not had an income since my 40 year old daughter was born.

But we have an excellent income and we don't ever say Dave makes the money. Sharon doesn't get a vote. That really wouldn't work at all. But it also doesn't work at all. So we're very careful with our pronouns. Everything is shared. It's our car, our everything. Unless the dog pees on the floor and then it's my dog. But other than that, it's our everything. Right, and so your dog. But yeah, but other than my dog, everything is we, our us. And this is what we are doing. We built a house, we bought a car, we went on a trip, we saved up some money for retirement, we bought some investment real estate. We do it all. And there's a tremendous marital benefit to that as well. Because when you agree on the overall, let's put all the money in one pile and we have to sit down and both of us have an equal vote. I'm not suggesting, suggesting she loses her independence. I'm suggesting she lost her independence when she got married. You did too, by the way. You now promise to work with someone the rest of your life on things. You gave up being independent. That's independent was when you were living by yourself in an apartment. That's independent. Okay, but, but you didn't lose your identity when you got married, but you, but you did lose your independence. You are now inter dependent, thank God. And now we're going to work together. And I really, really, really, I can't stress this enough what it will do for your relationship. Because here's the thing. When you agree on your spending, you got the whole money a pile. And we sit down together. She gets a vote, you get a vote. We're going to spend our money together.

You are agreeing on what you fear. You are agreeing on your dreams, you are agreeing on your values, you are agreeing on what we're gonna be generous with. And when you don't combine it, you don't have all that agreement. And so a level of unity, a level of oneness is missing from your relationship. I'm telling you, man, your relationship will double in quality when she gives this up.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, when I hear this, I hear somebody who. What's at the root of this? I think it sounds, it sounds powerful for women to say, oh, at the root of this is like, I'm a feminist and I'm an independent woman who don't need no man. But really what's at the root of it is fear is what I hear is somebody who's fearful that if I combine 100% with this person, something could happen down the line and I could be left out to dry. I could be the one left holding the bag. I could be the one that ends up getting screwed out of this.

[Dave Ramsey]

And by the way, the law says otherwise. But that's what the law protects, that.

[Jade Warshaw]

That'S what's ticking in her mind. And so that's, that's the nerve that I'd be going after is when I think of the word independence, that means you're free from something. And in this case you're free from me. I don't want you to be free from me. I want us to be together. And what I'm thinking is you're thinking about will you be protected in the future? Could something happen to you? Let's talk about all of that. I think if you can speak her language on this, you can come together on this.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, just the problem is if you don't, you're lowering the quality of your marriage, the probability of your marriage working and you're lowering the probability of building wealth. The data tells us all that, right? Those are facts. It's not a feeling and it's not a spiritual statement. It's a data based statement. And we know that from having done this for 30 years and having studied research project and research project out there on this. And so, yeah, so young man, if you're out there and you want to get married and you want to, to never be told what to do.

Never have someone have an opinion on whether you go by and have a beer after work or never have, don't get married.

Because that's what's going to happen.

That's one of the things you give up. You now have acquiesced to someone else's desires.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure, 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Young man, if you're getting married, young woman, if you're getting married, if you want to be independent and be offended, feminist, you shouldn't be. Marriage is not for you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, life just changes.

[Dave Ramsey]

It just not for you.

[Jade Warshaw]

The definitions change.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not that you have to submit to the men. So quite the opposite of that.

He's got to submit to you too. Submit yourselves one to another. Ephesians says both of you serve each other, both of you. And this is what creates high quality relationships. This is what creates high probability, building wealth. Oh, by the way, way careers take off too. It's the weirdest thing.

[Jade Warshaw]

And the data says that people who combine their money, they're just happier. Like just day to day, they're happier.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think Arthur Brooks Happiness study. He finds that stuff in marriage all the time. The cooperation creates the happiness. And as opposed to I'm standing up for my rights.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, and it's building trust because when you can do money together, you've learned. The thing you've learned about each other is I can depend on you and you can depend on me. I keep my word, you keep your word, we keep our word. And when you do that, that's good right there. You're good.

[Dave Ramsey]

That'll preach.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're good to go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's. It's an integrity verification.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's. That's strong. That's strong because.

You know, it's it. And it's not in his situation. His situation doesn't apply this. But I can't tell you that the reason that that that song sings right there is the number of times I run into someone who's got financial infidelity. They also have sexual infidelity.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's a correlation. Oftentimes we run it. We run into it a lot in the counseling office here. So it's just. Oh, man.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, that's a cool question. Thanks for putting it out.

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Our scripture of the day, Colossians 4, 5. Be wise in the way you should act toward outsiders. Make the most of every opportunity. Thomas Sowell said, why is there so much effort being put into trying to find intelligent life on other planets when there is serious question about how much intelligent life there is here?

Not bad. Not bad at all.

[Jade Warshaw]

All right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Aaron's in Pittsburgh. Hey, Aaron. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. Thank you both for all you do. And thank you for taking my call today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. Thank you. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I kind of called on a whim, but basically just a quick question. Me and my husband are on baby steps. Four, five and six. And, you know, I have two boys ages 16 and 12. They both want some pretty expensive clothing for Christmas. One hoodie, for example, can be anywhere from, you know, 150 to $300. And I grew up without money. And so, you know, I just look at that, and I think, you know, I could buy five hoodies for that price. And I just need to know, am I crazy? You know, it's a Christmas gift. Is it okay to spend a lot of money on, like, one item of clothing?

I mean, I feel like it's okay, but I guess.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your household income.

[Caller]

Like, right around right below 300,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is it the fact that. Is it the 150? Because you might spend 150 on, I don't know, a buy or to 300 on a bike or a scooter or a gaming system. Right, but is it the fact that it's clothing specifically, or is it the money specifically?

[Caller]

It's. It's honestly clothing. You know, it's like I said, you know, I mean, so it's the.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not the money. It's the fact you don't feel like it's good value.

[Caller]

Yes, exactly. I don't feel like it's a good. A good value. And I'm just like, you know, like I said, one hoodie is 300. I'm like, oh, my goodness. I could spend. I could use that money.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm so out of. Just not aware there was a hoodie that was over $70.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, there is.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the brand of this? I'm so out. I'm such a dad joke. What's the. What is the brand of this?

[Caller]

I think it's called Spider. There's like a five in the middle. And just.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's like, okay, it's like, is that ski wear? The ski wear. Spider. Ski wear. That stuff can be expensive.

[Caller]

I think some. Some rapper made it, you know, Some rapper.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's what's popular at school. They want to be, you know, they want the latest thing. I can also.

[Dave Ramsey]

Now, there's two parts to the discussion then. And, you know, it might be fun to sit down and talk to them about it and go, okay, I grew up poor, so this is hard for me. This is you talking. Okay, Number one. Number two, we have the money. And I'm concerned about two things here. Cause I think you are. I'm put words in your mouth, and you tell me if I'm wrong. Okay? I'm concerned that we're buying something super expensive just so you feel better about yourself at school.

So that you think you look cool and that you think that clothing makes you look cool instead of just by the way, being cool is a better way to look cool. And then the second thing is that I'm worried about what I'm teaching you when I do this for you. I can afford it and I'm willing to overcome my childhood part in order to do this for you. But I'm worried about you guys and what I'm teaching you if I do this because it's not a very good, it's not a good use of the money. You're buying one thing and one thing only here, and it's prestige. You're not buying the quality of clothing, you're buying the name. And so it would be the equivalent of a 16 year old girl wanting a, what, $2,000 Coach purse. Okay. And you know, which is why does she need that purse when she, you know, she doesn't at school? Okay, Same thing. Yeah, I'm making this up. But, you know, an expensive item and is a coach purse worth that?

[Jade Warshaw]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're paying for the fact that people see you carrying a Louis Vuitton or carrying a coach. That's what you're paying for. The purse itself is not constructed, you know, 8x better.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And this hoodie is not constructed. The quality of the material or something is not double, what, the $75. So, I mean, you just kind of talk that through with them and go, what is it that's driving you to want this? Because as your mom, I want you. My job is not to make you happy right now. My job is to raise you to be a complete grownup. I'm trying to raise great grownups, not great kids. And that's my job. And this is how we talk to our teens. And we would say, okay, what's the value system? What matters here, here. And I'm not shaming you. I just want you guys to think through this and, you know, and once we've talked it through, if I'm convinced that you think you're cool without this, I might get it for you.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'd also, I'm gonna throw another question in there because I'm a creative and I, I always am encouragement, encouraging my kids to be themselves. I'd want to know, is this a trend you're trying to set or is this a trend you're trying to follow? Ooh.

That'S what I'd want to know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because if you're trying to set a trend, I'm all in with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really.

[Jade Warshaw]

I, I love. I, I want you to pack. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Leader of the first one to the game.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Early adopter. Wow, that's interesting, huh?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah, I just, I don't Want our. We don't. None of us. None of the three of us, Aaron, you, me, or Jade want our kids to have their self esteem based in what they wear or what they own.

Stuff based. Self esteem is really shallow, and it's kind of Instagram influencer crap, you know? And it's like, it's just shallow. It's all about how you look instead of who you are, and it's all about who sees you with this and that kind of thing. One of Rachel's rules, my daughter's rules, is if no one ever sees me with this, would I still buy it?

[Jade Warshaw]

So good.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she said, in other words, I'm buying it for me, not for someone else. See, I. When I was in my 20s, I drove a Jaguar because I wanted everybody to think I was wealthy and had a Jaguar. Now I drive the only cars I have are for me. I don't care what you think, because I went broke and I lost all my care what you think it all went away. I don't give a crap now what you think. So I drive whatever I want to drive. And if you don't, I get. I couldn't care less. I'm not taking a pole. So, you know, and so I drove in a pickup today, and I'm just. It's a great pickup, but I don't care. I can drive whatever I want to drive. And I like the car, so that. But I. But when I was in my 20s, it was real concerned about what you thought. So Rachel's rule is a good rule, too.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love that rule.

[Dave Ramsey]

If no one ever saw you. Yeah, I like the trendsetter thing. That's interesting.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. Because, you know, teach them to lead. There's always something that's the big trend. And it's like, if you get it, you're part of the cool people, you're part of the group. And it's like, no, you. You make the trend and let everybody come and follow what you're doing. I. I care.

[Caller]

And I worry, too. I worry too, that, you know, that this is the trend now. And if I buy it in another three months, oh, it won't be.

[Dave Ramsey]

It won't be 100%. It won't be.

[Jade Warshaw]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

This time next year, it's in the goodwill pile.

[Jade Warshaw]

Goodwill pile.

[Dave Ramsey]

No question. No question. It's going. It's going to the homeless.

[Jade Warshaw]

This time next year, there's a. There's a viral video going around social media of a mom, and she's asking her daughter who's probably somewhere between the age of your boys, somewhere between 12 and 16. She says, hey, remember, do you remember what you got for Christmas last year?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Jade Warshaw]

Have you seen that? She can't think of any of them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Most kids, I can't tell.

[Jade Warshaw]

But then she said, where did we go on vacation? And the daughter remembered exactly where they went. So that right there is a good indicator of how their minds are better than stuff. Yeah. How their minds are thinking.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would use this as a teachable moment. And instead of saying, am I spending too much money? It's what am I getting for the money I'm spending? And part of the. One of the things I'm getting is the lesson that you two boys learn from this.

And I gotta become convinced that you think that you're awesome without this hoodie. And if you think a hoodie makes you awesome, I'm not getting it. Because I'm not gonna cause your self esteem to be based in what you're wearing ever. That's not a lesson. We not. Not at the Ramsey's and not at Aaron's house. And you know, I think it'd be a great growing up thing for them to talk about peer pressure and, you know, all this stuff and trend setting and following the cool kids and all that crap. Yeah, yeah. I think it's a great conversation to have.

[Jade Warshaw]

It is.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you know, teenagers actually. And if you'll come in and start with, I grew up poor, so this is hard for me. Start with vulnerability. They'll really listen.

[Jade Warshaw]

I bet.

[Dave Ramsey]

I bet that puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace. Right. Christ Jesus.