If You Feel Stuck, It’s Time for a Reset

Summary

The Ramsey Show – "If You Feel Stuck, It’s Time for a Reset"

Date: September 8, 2025
Hosts: Ken Coleman & George Campbell
Theme: Empowering listeners to reset their financial lives, tackle debt, and build wealth—no matter past mistakes.

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show centers on helping people reset when they feel stuck financially or in life. Through live calls, Ken Coleman and George Campbell coach listeners on practical steps for moving forward, focusing on getting out of debt, facing fear or inertia around financial decisions, increasing income, and taking control regardless of setbacks. The tone is energetic, sometimes humorous, and always compassionate, with the hosts using real-life scenarios to give tailored advice rooted in Ramsey’s Baby Steps.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Selling/Trading Debt-Heavy Cars & Strategic Loans

• Caller Joey (California, 01:03):
  Joey is overwhelmed by debt from a car loan and city/sales taxes but has a trade-in offer that won’t wipe out the loan.
  • Advice: Try to sell the car privately for a higher price. If not possible, consider a small credit union loan to cover the deficit and purchase a cheap used car (“beater”).
  • Quote (Ken, 05:02):

    “When somebody says, ‘I know what you’re going to say, but I want to hear it,’ let’s just save some time. No.”

  • Insight: Don’t lease a car as a shortcut. It’s just debt in disguise.
  • Memorable Moment (George, 05:09):

    "Go down to your credit union and get a loan for $9,000—that’ll cover your three and give you six to get something off Facebook Marketplace."

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2. Navigating Disability & Work Benefits, Finding Flexible/Remote Work

• Caller Sabrina (Arkansas, 10:52):
  Single mom receiving disability and child support, struggling to become financially independent while managing health issues and childcare.
  • Advice:
    Move toward remote or flexible jobs (e.g., customer service, online sales), which don’t exacerbate health conditions and allow steady income that can eventually replace benefits.
  • Quote (George, 19:26):

    “If you crunch the numbers for pretty much any retail job, you’ll find out very quickly your quality of life will go up if you get outside of this system, if you have the ability to work.”

  • The hosts encourage budgeting and provide her access to their EveryDollar app.
  • Memorable Moment: Ken correcting Sabrina’s “this is an issue” mindset:

    “This isn’t an issue. This makes it challenging. But if I can work five hours a day, then I’m going to work five hours a day." (19:03)

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3. Psychological Blocks Around Saving for Retirement

• Caller Tyler (Florida, 22:46):
  At age 24, Tyler is debt-free but resists retirement investing because he doubts he’ll live to retire.
  • Advice:
    The hosts challenge his logic by drawing parallels: if you don’t plan for the future, you might be caught unprepared. Use a Roth IRA and taxable accounts for flexibility.
  • Quote (Ken, 24:14):

    “You are aware that you’re going to die, right? ... You have no idea when that’s going to happen, right?”

  • Quote (George, 26:34):

    “There is a much higher likelihood that you retire broke than that you die at a young age.”

  • Suggest looking into therapy if fear is driving illogical financial choices.

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4. “Out of Order” Baby Steps & Sunk Cost in Student Loan Programs

• Caller Zach (New York, 34:02):
  Paid off his house but still has $65,000 in student loans, nearing the end of Public Service Loan Forgiveness.
  • Advice:
    They highlight how much he’s paid already (over $30k), and recommend preparing to pay the remaining balance if forgiveness falls through. Encourage opening 529s for his children.
  • Quote (George, 38:16):

    “You have paid $31,000-plus toward your student loans and the balance hasn’t moved.”

  • Commentary on the pitfalls and broken promises of federal student loan programs.
  • Quote (Ken, 42:24):

    “The federal government should not be in the banking business. This is banking. Zach’s story…just really upset me.”

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5. “Should We Sell Our Dream Home to Get Out of Debt?”

• Caller Joe (Massachusetts, 45:00):
  Over $240k in debt, house consumes 50%+ of income; wife wants to stay home.
  • Advice:
    Start by selling their cars and increasing Joe’s overtime work, then budget intensively for the next 2–3 years before considering selling the house.
  • Quote (George, 47:08):

    “If you did that, I mean, it’d be for a season. Like, I don’t want you to be doing this forever, … would that change the numbers on the mortgage?”

  • **Hosts emphasize a united couple’s agreement and vision for the next few years to avoid resentment or burnout.

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6. Convincing a Spouse to Move Out from Parents’ Home

• Caller Renee (Michigan, 55:04):
  Making $9,000/month but still living with parents due to husband’s fear and reluctance to budget or move out.
  • Advice:
    The hosts recommend emotional honesty and, if needed, marriage counseling. Renee is urged to take initiative since her husband refuses to engage in the budget or the reality of their debt.
  • Quote (Ken, 58:43):

    “If he says to you, ‘I don’t want to look at it, you handle it,’ then guess what—put a deposit down on an apartment today.”

  • Quote (George, 61:00):

    “You’ve been an accomplice to these crimes...Both of you have been very lackadaisical in this process."

  • Humor and tough love throughout:

    “Jesus saved the world by the time he was 33. You guys can go rent an apartment.” (64:25)

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7. Turo Business & Debt: Smart Leverage or Disaster Waiting?

• Question from Liam (Washington, 66:16):
  Owns 26 cars for Turo rentals, half paid off, $200k in auto debt.
  • Advice:
    Liquidate cars not underwater, run business debt-free to avoid catastrophic risk as cars depreciate faster than you can pay off debt.
  • Quote (George, 67:08):

    “My fear is… the cars might only be worth $100,000 at this point as they get destroyed by people renting them out.”

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8. Huge Pay Bump in Twenties—Travel with Credit Card Rewards?

• Caller Trinity (Columbus, OH, 69:15):
  Raised income from $36k to $75k, wants to travel but wonders if travel credit cards are smart.
  • Advice:
    Don’t play the miles game. Use a debit card, save cash for travel—avoid credit card traps and fees.
  • Quote (George, 74:07):

    “If you actually looked at the value of that flight if you’d just booked it yourself…could you find one that’s $700 round trip?”

  • Memorable Moment:

    “Only broke people have to play this game to try to make videos about how they…fly for free.” (74:53)

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9. Young Saver with $45,000 in Cash at Home—Too Much Security?

• Caller Caitlin (NC, 96:45):
  Paid-off car, land loan, $45k in cash stored in a gun safe at home.
  • Advice:
    Move almost all cash to a high-yield bank account. Keep $1k–$2k in physical cash max. Pay off any lingering debt, attack the land loan, and don't trust the "credit score game."
  • Quote (George, 98:10):

    “$45,000, I think we can all agree, is a wild amount to have in cash at your house.”

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10. Breaking the Hustle Cycle After Hitting Financial Goals

• Caller Haley (Nashville, TN, 107:19):
  Paid off $300k house, has $250k in investments, $60k emergency fund, but stuck working 90–100 hours/week out of old trauma from growing up with nothing.
  • Advice:
    Slow down—start spending on experiences, generosity, and therapy to process money anxiety. The fear is not logical at this stage; build new habits and seek purpose beyond just saving.
  • Quote (Ken, 113:09):

    “I think that you can get freedom from this. I really do…I actually think a professional can help you…so you won’t be a victim to this fear around money anymore.”

  • George, 115:17:

    “They [fire movement devotees] get there and the goalpost shifts…Instead of ‘Well, I have $3 million but I don’t know if it’s enough.’ … Leapfrog that and just go to the seek purpose for fulfillment part.”

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Other Notable Advice and Moments

• Insurance, Disability & Privacy Protection: Regular reminders to get the right insurance and keep personal data safe after big data breaches. (77:01)
• Entrepreneurial Temptations to Scale Too Fast: Caller Andy owns a chocolate shop and wants to buy expensive equipment; hosts encourage patience and reinvesting cash profit rather than more debt. (78:14)
• Older Divorcee Rebuilding from Scratch: Pay off car with inherited beneficiary IRA, stock emergency fund, boost investments after catching up on debts. (86:54)
  • Quote (Ken, 91:30):

    “…I just want you to know we think you’re sitting really pretty because don’t make me get George to get his investment calculator out.”

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Notable Quotes

• Ken Coleman (20:26):

  “Run real numbers so that you get out of this mindset that I’m stuck with this benefit. You actually can do this and you have to do this. We’re cheering you on.”

• George Campbell (26:47):

  “If you plant corn, later on, you’re going to have some corn when the harvest comes. And if you don’t, don’t be surprised when you’re 61, broke, working a job you hate going: ‘I didn’t think I’d live this long.’”

• Ken Coleman (58:43):

  “If he says to you, ‘I don’t want to look at it, you handle it,’ then guess what—put a deposit down on an apartment today.”

• George Campbell (115:07):

  "We need to increase the spending; we need to increase the generosity. It's going to unlock so much and I think take the pressure out of 'well I could be saving that, I could be taking that shift instead.'"

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Joey’s Car Dilemma: 01:03–08:40
• Sabrina’s Disability/Work Crossover: 10:52–20:24
• Tyler’s Retirement Fear: 22:46–31:39
• Zach’s Out-of-Order Baby Steps: 34:02–42:57
• Joe Considers Selling Dream Home: 45:00–52:48
• Renee’s Stuck Living With Parents: 55:04–64:35
• Turo Car Fleet Debt Crisis: 66:16–69:10
• Trinity’s Travel/Miles Card Question: 69:15–76:01
• Caitlin’s Cash Hoard in Gun Safe: 96:45–105:46
• Haley’s Hustle Addiction & Trauma: 107:19–116:58

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Conclusion

If You Feel Stuck, It’s Time for a Reset delivers tough love, practical steps, and empathetic guidance for those paralyzed in their financial journey. Whether the barrier is emotional, logistical, relational, or just inertia, Ken and George provide a path to action grounded in Ramsey’s “Baby Steps.” The show closes with a call to face your fears, leverage your resources, and—above all—remember your self-worth is not measured by your past or your net worth.

Transcript

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Ken Coleman]

Normal is broken. Common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey show alongside George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number, 8888-255225-88825-5225. A daddy for the second time. I'm sure you've talked about it this week, but you haven't talked about it with me, so I want to give a nod. You look amazingly refreshed for a guy who's getting no sleep.

[George Campbell]

I did the cucumbers on the eyes and everything you told me to do, Ken, so thank you. The advice works.

[Ken Coleman]

What are my facial tips, folks? It'll sneak up on you. Well, congratulations, my friend. You ready to go?

[George Campbell]

I'm pumped.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's go to Joey in California. Joey, how can we help?

[George Campbell]

Hello.

[Caller]

How you guys doing?

[Ken Coleman]

We're doing great. George is a little sleepy, but he.

[George Campbell]

Go easy on me, Joey.

[Ken Coleman]

He's alert.

[Caller]

That's awesome. All right, the question that I had for you. I've been following the show, trying to get out of debt as much as I can. The last two things that I have on my plate is my car loan. It's 28,353 to be exact. And then I owe city tax, sales tax, and I'm on a payment plan for 31,774. My question being I have an offer from a dealer for trade in for 25,000 on my car. I don't at the moment have the money to pay the 3,000 because I'm not trying to take money out of my sales tax account and all the stuff that I'm going to offer the end of the year. So I just want to know what's best in this situation to keep moving forward.

[George Campbell]

What other debt do you have?

[Caller]

That's it. I just have the car and sales tax. That's. That's literally everything.

[George Campbell]

And what do you make?

[Caller]

I run so 80 to 100. It fluctuates. But I have my own company. I do screen printing and embroidery.

[Ken Coleman]

What if you had the money, the whole enchilada, the extra 3,000. What if you had all that set aside? What would you do for a car if you took this deal?

[Caller]

That's my other question.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't have any money for that either?

[Caller]

No, no, I don't have any other money for that. I could. I could go and borrow again. And that's exactly what I don't want to do.

[Ken Coleman]

That's not where. It's not where I was going. I just wanted to see where we stood. If you had money set aside for.

[George Campbell]

A beater, do you have anything in savings?

[Caller]

Thousand dollars. Okay, yeah, I have the thousand dollars and I. I do have a little bit in my stock account, but it's not much. Another five, 600 bucks.

[George Campbell]

Okay, well, I mean, you're halfway there. A stock account. He's got some single stocks.

[Ken Coleman]

Sorry. I heard sock and I was like, that's kind of fun.

[George Campbell]

That's different.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, different. That's in the top.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so here's the deal. The trade in offer is way less than you would get if you sold it privately. So could you sell it privately and get 28 or 29, 30 for it?

[Caller]

I posted it. It's been on the market for about five months now. I've been for. I've been listening to the show since the beginning of the year. So that's, that's what I first tried and it hasn't sold. I just think that everybody's in the same situation where it's a soft market.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. What kind of car is it?

[Caller]

It's a 20, 21 grand Cherokee. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

What do you have it listed for?

[Caller]

I have it listed for 28.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And you've checked Kelly, Kelly blue book, private party value, and you're right on the money there.

[Caller]

Or a little under right on the money. As far as the private sell the trade in, I've gotten as low because I've shopped it to many dealers. I've gotten as low as 19,000. And for whatever reason, this dealer is offering 25. So that's why I'm.

[George Campbell]

Is it contingent on you getting a new car from them? Because sometimes they'll try to hose you in and go, well, you'll have to get a new car payment from us to do the trade. And of this value.

[Caller]

Yeah, I made sure of it. I made sure that it wasn't any other terms. It's just straight 25 and that's it.

[George Campbell]

Okay. Could you go to your local credit union and get a small loan for the difference that you owe maybe plus a little bit more to get you something to drive around in for now.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. So that was, that was the other thing that I had thought is because I was going to, you know, just take a little bit out of my sales tax and pay myself back on it and get a beater, but then I just thought, you know, I do use the car a lot for deliveries for the company.

[George Campbell]

Well, on my screen here, it says, should I lease a car? You haven't mentioned that part yet.

[Caller]

Yeah, so that was the other question. Instead of carrying the debt, and I know the answer from you guys. I just wanted to hear it. Maybe that will help me get out of that mindset. But no. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So save all. When somebody says, I know what you're going to say, but I want to hear it. Let's just save some time. No.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. So, George.

[George Campbell]

All right, so we answer calls of how we would deal with this if.

[Ken Coleman]

We were in your shoes.

[George Campbell]

And I would be going down to my credit union and trying to get a loan for, let's say, $9,000. That'll cover your three and give you six to go get something off Facebook Marketplace. That'll get you from A to B.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And that avoids you leasing a brand new car. That avoids you taking on another car payment. It avoids taking on more debt. Instead of. We're just reducing your debt from this, you know, 28,000 or 31,000 down to nine.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So we're much closer to getting you debt free.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the car payment on this current car?

[Caller]

514 by 14 is the car payment. And gas, I'm spending around 3. And then the insurance is around 125.

[George Campbell]

That's great. So then you're debt free. You got an extra 500 bucks to throw at your emergency fund and savings and your tax liability.

[Ken Coleman]

And with the income you make if you do George's plan, you should be able to pay off that small loan to the credit union pretty quickly. Get after it.

[George Campbell]

And the other thing is, in the next 30 days, seven grand is going to slip through your hands. Am I wrong?

[Caller]

No. Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So you have. You'll have $3,000 to cover the difference in the next 30 days.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

So there's no, like, crazy rush on this. If you can just really live on nothing for the next 30 days, 60 days, you'll have the money to. To sell this car outright.

[Caller]

Yeah. And. And that's what I've been doing kind of, you know, I haven't been doing anything crazy. The number has been going down and down. And I think that I'm just in the mindset, going crazy, trying to get completely out of debt by the end of the year. That's my goal. So my second question to your guys's answer is, so it's okay to get that second loan even though I'm pulling out More money. But getting out of this car.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. You're not necessarily pulling out more money. What you're doing is reducing $31,000 of debt down to 9.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And so it's kind of like a debt payoff plan. And then that 9,000 you're going to attack aggressively.

[Ken Coleman]

But I, but what I heard is, is if you're just patient, you're intentional. There's only debt you have. Let's get that budget. Let's. In the next 30 days, you've got that extra three grand. So then you can take the deal.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

You see what I'm saying? Like, you can take. I think that's actually a pretty good deal. Could it for five months. You've, you've. Yeah, I go to them and say, guys, here's my deal. I'm in. Can we agree to this? Will you hold that price? Will you still give me the 25, you know, three weeks from now when I get my next check or whatever. And now you get 25 for it. You, you've got the additional three so that we're not going down to the credit union, you know, or are you suggesting he still do that for a beater?

[George Campbell]

Well, he needs something to get around A to B. I don't know what your situation is, how close you are to work.

[Ken Coleman]

If you could wait 60 days, I mean, I think you have to look at everything. And so the car dealers, they're a little bit desperate right now. That market is soft. So the reason they're giving you such a good offer on this is because they're just looking for transactions. They obviously believe they can sell it. If they're going to give you 25 for it, there's enough margin in it. Because I don't think people realize this, George, is such a razor thin margin. In the car business, the way they make the money is the financing. They don't make a lot of money on the actual transaction.

[George Campbell]

They might make a few hundred bucks off the transaction. They'll make a few thousand if they can get you to finance it long term.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what they see. They see your car as a. Is a good car and they can make more money on it. So I don't know, see if they'll honor the price in 60 days just as an option. You've got two ideas here from George.

[George Campbell]

Get resourceful, man. But make sure you take debt off the table as an option of going to lease a car or getting a new payment.

[Ken Coleman]

Pretty interesting. Puts it out there five months, no bites on a nice grand. Cherokee tells you where we're at in the economy.

[George Campbell]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[George Campbell]

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[George Campbell]

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, Sabrina is up next in Bentonville, Arkansas. Sabrina, how can we help?

[Caller]

Thank you so much for taking my call. I am really good at saving money, but I'm not good at making money. So I'm trying to figure out if I need a new career path and if I should get a certification, go back to school or something. Then the other part to it is I also feel like I can't afford to work because I am currently receiving some government benefits and I desperately want to be independent, but it's hard to make enough money to make up for what I would lose.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, got it. Well, this is fun. This is a good day for you because we're going to talk about work options, but you Also got the budgeting guru to my right here who can help out. So this will be fun. Okay, let's get into this. Are you single? Are you, are you married? What is your relationship status?

[Caller]

I'm a single mom.

[Ken Coleman]

You're a single mom. Okay, what is your income? Tell us what your income consists of. How much is it and what does it consist of?

[Caller]

So I have been trying to build a business and last year was the first year we turned a profit and it was only maybe $10,000.

Okay.

I do get a little bit under $1,000 of disability a month and then I received some child support.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so what is the. Let's get real numbers here. We're going to put the business aside because that's just not enough to even count at this point. Just under $1,000. How close to $1,000 are we on the disability?

[Caller]

957.

[Ken Coleman]

957.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

And then what's the child support?

[Caller]

750.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that consistent?

[Caller]

It is.

[Ken Coleman]

So he's doing a good job there. Okay, so that is $1700 a month because the 10,000 is just. Again, I'm not even going to try to count that. What is the business?

[Caller]

I make specialty dog houses.

[Ken Coleman]

And you make this. I mean, this is like cutting, sawing wood, hammering together. Is that right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. What is, and may I ask, what is your disability payment for?

[Caller]

A few different things. I had a brain tumor and a lot of mental health struggles.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I'm kind of. I was excited. I was getting over those things and I thought I could hold down a job.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Caller]

But actually, just like a few weeks ago, I started having a lot of heart issues now.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, bless you.

[Caller]

So I just don't know what does.

[George Campbell]

The physical labor aggravate any of this?

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's why it has been so slow growing because.

[George Campbell]

So we need to find a whole new career slash business for you that won't affect your health.

[Ken Coleman]

But before we get into that, let's look at if you were to get a full time job, I'm assuming the 957 goes away. That's what you were addressing, correct?

[Caller]

Yes. And also we get MAP benefits. And like with that I get free phone and cheap Internet. Like there's just a host of things.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, well, let's give George and I that picture.

[George Campbell]

Well, I can help you get really great phone service for $20 a month. I can help you get great Internet for 50 bucks a month. So if we're talking, hey, I'm going to lose 200 bucks. Of benefits and 957. Great. We can help you go make two grand a month and cover everything.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. So here's. Here's the deal, Sabrina. So the physical stuff is a challenge. Okay. And you're navigating that to the best of your ability. But I've, I have talked to so many people who are in your shoes where they feel like it is such a crazy risk to let go of a minimal benefit in order to actually make quite, quite, you know, a bit more money. And so you've got to understand, it's very simple math. If we start making, we start bringing home three or four grand a month, then we're not worried about those benefits. Would you agree with that statement?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So we also know that you can't do something that's very, very physical. So pretty soon, if not right away, we are going to at least press pause on this side hustle or this business that involves manual labor. We agree with that statement too. Correct.

[Caller]

That's a hard one. But I see your point. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, it's not my. This isn't like my opinion. This is if, to George's point, if, if the physical labor is causing issues, then it. Then we need to do something. Correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so it also feels then that a job that. Where you're on your feet all day long might also be problematic. Is that true.

[Caller]

Or would that be now? What I'm going through it is I, you know, again, I was hoping I was feeling better and then got hit with the.

[Ken Coleman]

I get. Hey, listen, hang in there. This is just another storm. You've been through worse. Yes.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so let's talk about remote work. What have you done in the past? Do you have any prior work history?

[Caller]

I've done some direct sales. I worked on a ranch for years. Like I have work experience. I've always worked. I've just never made good money.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, well, again, we'll work to that. We just got to get steady work and then we figure out how to grow. Okay. So, okay, my question is, is there anything that you did on the ranch or in the direct sales that immediately spits out an idea to you to say, hey, this I can do.

[Caller]

I mean, both of them I loved. And with direct sales, what were you selling? What were you selling with Mary Kay? And so I very familiar with skincare and I have looked into getting my cosmetology license.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, right now we're not getting any kind of licenses because we don't have any money. Okay, how much is a cosmetology license.

[Caller]

After a pell Grant's about 6,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, we just. That's not realistic for you right now. Okay, now can we build up to that? Is that a target in the future? Yes, but what has to be true in your health and then, you know, how much money do we need to be able to assemble in order to save $6,000? That's going to take some time. So we want to just like the baby steps and get out of debt. We need some baby steps to get you some better income. Here's what I think. I think you ought to be looking at anything and everything as to some type of online sales or even customer service that pays well. Because if you can sell well, then you can do customer service and over the phone or online chat agent. I would be looking because here's what's true about those jobs. Those jobs have high turnover because other people are looking to, you know, do something else. But in your case, I think it could be great because it represents stability. And we want to get to a point, George, where we, we, we bring in enough income to where we're not worried about the $957 in benefits and the 750 in child support is just that it's gravy for your children. George, I want to bring you in. You've been listening here. I think this is remote work because of her health. And I also think that those opportunities are out there due to turnover. Your thoughts?

[George Campbell]

You know, I'm trying to figure out the childcare situation. How many hours could you work per week?

[Caller]

That's another issue. I have her every other week. So when I don't have her, you know, my schedule is very flexible. When she's in school, really, there's about five hours. By the time I drive and pick her up and, you know, do all those things, that's fine.

[Ken Coleman]

We got to make the best of it. It's not an issue. This is, this is a reality. See, when someone says this is an issue, that means, oh, there's another limitation. No, no, no, no, no. Like, you're a single mom and you've overcome a lot of physical stuff. You can do this because you have to do this. This isn't an issue. This makes it challenging. But if I can work five hours a day, then I'm going to work five hours a day. Yes.

[Caller]

Will I be able to make enough money, though?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caller]

To make up for the benefits?

[George Campbell]

Yes. And if you crunch the numbers for pretty much any retail job, you'll find out very Quickly that your quality of life will go up if you get outside of this system, if you have the ability to work.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

That's the key. I'm not mad at these government programs, but they cause people to stay stuck in these cycles where they think this is it. This is as good as my life is gonna get. I can only save up to $2,000 or else they cut all my benefits. And I want to show you a life where you have agency, where you have more control. And that's going to take some work. It's not going to be easy. But if we can get you working 25 hours a week doing retail at a Sephora, doing some makeup, you're going to have a better quality of life financially.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And by the way, don't just take our word for it, Sabrina. Run the numbers. Run 25 hours a week at 15 bucks an hour or 30 hours a week at 20 bucks. Run real numbers so that you get out of this mindset that I'm stuck with this benefit. You actually can do this and you have to do this. We're, we're cheering you on and you can do this. George, should we do a little Every dollar?

[George Campbell]

I love that. Hang on the line. We're going to send you our every dollar budgeting app, the premium version to help you through this. If you ever googled yourself, here's the two worst things you can find. Photo evidence of your worst haircut and your personal data floating around on some sketchy website. I mean, the bangs were regrettable, but your info being bought, sold and reposted all over the world wide web even worse. And trust me, it happens all the time. And that's why I use delete me. You guys. Over 20 billion records have been leaked in recent years. And that info gets pulled into these people search sites. So stuff like your name, number, address, even your kids names is out there for anyone to see. But if you're trying to clean up your personal data yourself, good luck. It can be a part time job just submitting these opt out requests. So if you don't want your personal info out there, you should be using Deleteme too. Deleteme has real people who track down your data, remove it from these shady sites and make sure it stays removed. Plus you get a report from Deleteme showing exactly what was found and what's been deleted. So take back your privacy with Delete Me right now. Ramsey listeners get 20% [e-mail] Ramsey with code Ramsey at checkout. So do that today. Joinedelete me me.com Ramsey code Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, if you are tired of living paycheck to paycheck, you need to join one of our free Every Dollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month, and they're hosted by one of our Ramsey personalities, like my pal George Camel here. And they're going to show how to stick to a budget, even find you ready for this. $9,000 worth of margin and all using every dollar. This will help you get out of debt and build wealth. Plus, you can ask questions during this live Q and A. So it's not just like you looking and listening. You get a chance to ask a very specific question. You can sign up for free. The whole thing's free. Ramseysolutions.com webinar Tyler's up in Orlando, Florida. Tyler, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. One of the things that I've been struggling with, I'm on baby step number four. I just started investing and I have been investing, but one of the things that's kind of hard for me is investing In a Roth IRA or a 401K, any of those retirement funds. And the reason for that is because, honestly, I don't think I'll live that long. And I don't know how to break out of that.

[George Campbell]

Do you have a terminal illness?

[Caller]

No. No, sir.

[Ken Coleman]

So. Okay, I'll bite.

[George Campbell]

How old are you?

[Ken Coleman]

This isn't a money question. You've got some sort of weird psychology thing going on that you probably need to get some help with because you just literally, like, I just don't know. I mean, what. What age do you. What age are you right now? And what age are you confident saying, hey, George, can I think I'll make it this far?

[Caller]

I'm 24. I don't know. I. That's part of the thing is, like, I don't know that I won't make it or anything. It's just something kind of blocking me that, like, hey, you know, like, 65, that's a long time away.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome to life. This is really gonna freak you out. Can I get personal with you for a second? Can I. Can I be personal?

[Caller]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

Tyler. I'm 51 and I feel like I got a lot of left to give, but I have no idea if I make it through to midnight tonight.

[Caller]

Fair. Fair.

[Ken Coleman]

So if I spend time thinking about that all the time, I'm not going to have issues with 401ks, I'm going to have issues with everything. Yes.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's true.

[Ken Coleman]

You're 24. I hate to be so harsh, but, Tyler, you are aware that you're going to die, right?

[Caller]

I do know that, yes.

[Ken Coleman]

And you are aware that you have no idea when that's going to happen, right?

[Caller]

Yes, I do know that.

[Ken Coleman]

So I think you're focused on. On. On just the. The what? I don't know if this is a stage of your life that you're in. I don't know you well enough to give you some sort of analysis.

[George Campbell]

A quarter life crisis? Well, I guess depends. It could be midlife, depending on how long he plans to live.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

We don't know. So are you single, Tyler?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Campbell]

Okay. This might change once you have a family. I don't know. But there. There's a piece of this where I go. The heart of this is I don't think planning for the future is worth it because I don't know what the future is going to hold.

[Ken Coleman]

Right?

[Caller]

Yeah. That's kind of what I feel, by the way.

[Ken Coleman]

By the way, not crazy. I don't think you're nuts, by the way. But let's flip that we don't plan for the future and then say, boy, that's silly. Why would we plan for something that we have no idea what it is? If you leave it to that, it's pretty good philosophy, right? But that's not what we do. We plan for it so that if we make it, we can actually make it. Correct.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Like, what happens if you go, well, I'm 24. I'm not going to plan for the future. I'm gonna. I'm gonna live like I'm dying. It's a great Tim McGraw song, you know, And. And then I make it to my forties, and I make it to my fifties, and I make it to my sixties. And then I wake up one day and I go, I got nothing. And I. And I can't work any longer. And now I'm really in trouble. Gee whiz, I wish I had a plan for this. That's the flip side. George, what would you say to this? Because I don't think there's anybody better suited to address this neurosis than you.

[George Campbell]

Well, there's a lot of angles here, but the one I keep going back to is there is a much higher likelihood that you retire broke than you dying at a young age. And that's what we're seeing right now, is a retirement crisis. Because people went, well, I'll just save later. Right now I have other things to do. I got debt to pay. I Don't know how to invest. I'm scared. Whatever the reason is, they don't invest and therefore they don't have anything.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And so you reap what you sow. If you plant corn later on, you're going to have some corn when the harvest comes. And if you don't, don't be surprised when you're 61, broke, working a job you hate going. I didn't think I'd live this long.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh.

[George Campbell]

And so there's a lot of other questions around this that makes me think that maybe you just need some, some purpose in your work, vision for the future, and you're just feeling a little bit lost right now.

[Ken Coleman]

I wonder, are you a person who overanalyzes everything?

[Caller]

Definitely. For sure.

[George Campbell]

Are you in debt right now?

[Caller]

No, I paid off all my debts. Yes, sir.

[George Campbell]

Why would you do that? If we don't know what the future holds, why not just get as much debt as you can? Because we'll just die one day.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a good point. I see this.

[George Campbell]

Why did you pay off debt? Why did you pay off your debt?

[Caller]

I mean, just because I knew I need, like I was living horribly in, in every way possible. And I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And so.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but why not rack up a ton of credit cards, second mortgages, let's just go to the hilt. Because we're living for the moment, man. I don't know what tomorrow holds wee. Why not do that?

[Caller]

I guess because I do, you know, I do want a better future. And so I guess I'm making an assumption that there is a future.

[George Campbell]

I know when you go to bed tonight, you're assuming you're going to wake up tomorrow, and I'd rather you wake up with more money than you had the day before. And it's not that you need to hoard wealth. I see. You know, like, part of this is, are you worried that you're not going to get to enjoy the money?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's, you know, if I, if I put it into something like mutual funds or like index etf, if I needed that, I. At an earlier time, I'm not going to get all those penalties that I would take if I took it out at full time.

[George Campbell]

I love this. Well, there's a better, a much better solution. The solution is not, well, let me not invest. The solution is, let me invest in retirement and start to create a bridge account that's in a taxable brokerage that you could use before you're 60, let's say you wanted to early retire, start a business, pursue some hobbies. At 50, you're. Well, I don't want to eat all the penalties. Well, you can use this bridge account to cover those expenses, but you're not gonna be able to do that if you don't start investing today. So are you completely debt free with a fully funded emergency fund?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[George Campbell]

Great. And how much do you make?

[Caller]

Around 4,000amonth.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I work for a rehabilitation center.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you want to do long term? What is 44 year old? Tyler.

[Caller]

Sorry. I actually really like this. I'm being promoted here pretty soon to.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Caller]

Run over a intensive outpatient unit.

[Ken Coleman]

Great.

[Caller]

And that's. That's something I'm. I absolutely am so excited to do. I can't stand it.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the. Well, that's great news. What's the health history of your family? How long do they live?

[Caller]

Fine. The only person in my direct family that's died is my grandfather from skin cancer.

[Ken Coleman]

How old was he?

[Caller]

He was 68.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So again, I really believe. I was not kidding earlier when I said therapy. If this stuff starts to grip you to where you're making nonsensical decisions. So for one thing, you believe in paying off debt, but you don't know why it makes sense to save money for when you're in your 70s. None of this makes you a freak. Having a little fun with this. And George and I kind of just walked you into some corner so you could see how your logic wasn't really playing out. Well. But at the same time, if you've got a real fear on this and this is coming from somewhere, talking to somebody's great, you know, and just kind of.

[Caller]

Let's.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's just get me what's going on here, because I can tell you this, there's a fear. And I'm not going to unpack all this on the show, but in five minutes we could. George and I can figure out pretty quickly, what is this under this undercurrent of fear? Where is it coming from? Because that's what's driving the very question that you're asking today. So be okay diving into that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

See how this affects our money, Our fears affect our future.

[George Campbell]

Because if you got fears and doubts about the future and you're feeling hopeless about it, why would you invest? I agree. There's no reason to.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

But if you feel like, man, I got a life to live, I could live until I'm 90, I want to make an impact. I want to leave legacy. I want to have a family. I want to leave them inheritance. Then I'm going to get to investing. And so what I would do if I were you, Tyler, I would fully fund a Roth IRA for the year. And then any money beyond that, you can throw into an index fund and a brokerage account and start to build this bridge account from 24 to 65 or until 50. You're gonna have a big old pile of money to enjoy long before your golden years.

[Ken Coleman]

You know why I want a bunch of money when I'm in my 70s?

[George Campbell]

Because you want a pickleball court in your backyard.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna go. Yes, as a matter of fact. And you know, maybe I take all my geriatric friends on a pickleball cruise.

[George Campbell]

You know what? You're gonna be the guy with a boat. I want you to be my friend with a boat. Because I don't. I'm not gonna buy one. But Ken in his little yacht with his little captain's hat. You know what?

[Ken Coleman]

You got me pegged wrong. I like all the boat outfits, but I think I'd rent the boat, not buy the book.

[George Campbell]

He's all about the fashion.

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[George Campbell]

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[Ken Coleman]

Hey, how you doing on your baby steps? Are you staying on track? Have you lost a little momentum? One of the things I love that we offer is we've got a fun little quiz for you on your baby steps. Just a few minutes and it's in the show notes. And it's actually, are you on track with the baby steps? Is the name of the quiz and just takes a few minutes and it lets you know where you are and then give you a personalized plan on how to maybe keep the momentum or to get back on that momentum train. So check that out. Zach is up in New York. Zach, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. I appreciate you taking my call today. How you guys doing?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. How are you, sir?

[Caller]

Good, good. So, you know, calling in. So my wife, she picked up one of Dave Ramsey's books about four years ago, and we started doing the seven baby steps. So we were lucky enough and we did them slightly out of order because I have $65,000 worth of federal loans for school, but I am in the public service loan forgiveness program that I've been in there for eight and a half years at this point. So we sort of skipped around a little bit and we were lucky enough to pay off our house last week.

[George Campbell]

Whoa, congrats. I wouldn't call that luck. Like, no one paid it off for you. I am in a sweepstack.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm dying to know. I think America's dying to know. What order are we in right now? So if we went to baby step six, what have we not done?

[Caller]

So just. And I have the list up. We did. We did step one. We have all debt paid off. We paid our cars off. We paid off my private student loans, which was about 75,000, paid off both cars. We have about six months of our emergency fund fully funded.

[Ken Coleman]

You did baby step four, you're investing 15%.

[Caller]

So that's where we, me and my wife are Both at about 10% each.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so far together, she has about 145 saved up in retirement, and I have 75,000 in my 401k and then another 28,000 in a pension. So once that pinch, if I were to, you know, continue with the pension, I guess when I retire, I would get about $626 a month. And that was one of my questions. I was sort of leaning towards. I didn't know because sometimes pensions, they sort of expire sometimes or sometimes they don't follow through by the time you're that age. So, you know, I invested 28,000 into the S. So I didn't know if that would be a good idea to remain in with the pension or you guys would recommend maybe moving that over to Like a Roth ira, if that's even an option.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, I mean you'll do much better investing on your own outside of that pension because the returns are horrible because of how conservative they have to be and you have no control. So it dies with you versus a Roth IRA, 401k that can actually continue down the family line. So there's a few things on the pension. But your question today, is it revolving around the remaining student loan debt?

[Caller]

Yeah. So part of it is that and then the other question is what do we do moving forward since we, like I said, since we worked hard, we got the house paid off. I wanted to hear from your guys perspective I guess about the student loan debt because I know what is the question previously.

[Ken Coleman]

We got enough information. What is your direct question?

[Caller]

The direct question is should I continue with my current payments of $308 a month until I hit the 10 year mark in hopes that you know, it will be forgiven as my, my 10 years of 120 payments.

[Ken Coleman]

How much hope you got?

[Caller]

Well, I mean I, as of recently I've had about five or six colleagues that have done those forgiven who I work with. So that, that's the most hope I've got in a little while. Prior to that I haven't heard too many people get forgiven.

[Ken Coleman]

Exactly.

[George Campbell]

And you're, you're eight and a half years in out of ten. So you're like hey man, I've already, this is sunk cost fallacy. I'm already this deep into it. Do I just ride it out and see what happens?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Do you have 65 grand sitting in a savings account right now? You could pay it off with.

[Caller]

Not right now, I don't know. I mean we got the emergency fund and then maybe another 15k combined and checking and savings.

[George Campbell]

What was the original balance of the federal student loans?

[Caller]

They were, it's been about 65.

[George Campbell]

Can I tell you something hilarious? You have paid 31,000 plus toward your student loans and the balance hasn't moved.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So this was not a free ride from the get go. That $308 for eight and a half years it cost you. And so you can ride it out for another year and a half and hope that it's there. I would personally if you're going to do that, you would better have that 65 grand sitting there ready to pay it off in case something falls through, in case you didn't dot the I and cross the T and they go nope, rejected. And so I'm not mad if you hold on to this point for a year and a half. But I also think you guys have a high income that you could just knock them out at this stage of the game, especially with no mortgage payment. What are you guys making?

[Caller]

Yeah, so, So I make 143 and my m, my wife makes 123. So we're at about 266 total.

[George Campbell]

This is the hilarious part. You guys could pay this off in less than a year, but instead we've hung onto it for a decade for a false promise while paying 31 grand toward it and making no progress. That's the part that breaks my heart for you guys.

[Caller]

Yeah, like I said, I, you know, I was the first one to go to college in my family. So I didn't really understand, you know, taking out loans exactly what that means in the long term. And you know, I sort of found out the hard way there. And like I said, unfortunately I'm eight and a half years in now. So I was trying to sort of figure out, you know, for the next year and a half, what do we do and then, you know, what can we do for our kid moving forward so they don't have to deal with student loans?

[George Campbell]

Well, that's all in the baby steps. If you guys had just followed it from day one as it is stated, you got baby step five there. Once you get rid of all the debt, we're investing into 529 plans. That's what I just had another kid already opening up the 529 to start investing. Because you invest a few hundred bucks a month into that thing, it's going to be six figures by the time they turn 18.

[Caller]

Okay. Thanks to compound growth, you guys are definitely Pro 529.

[George Campbell]

Yes, 100. There's also the education savings account, but it has more limitations as far as income and contribution limits. And 529 plans have come a long way and so they're, they're a great opportunity to invest for college with tax free withdrawals for education. So I would do that. But I first, before you do that, let's put our own mask on first and get rid of this debt. And if it were me, I would just knock them out. I know it's. You're going to be mad either way. You're going to be mad. You waited a decade to knock this out. Making a quarter million dollars a year and you're going to be mad if you just save up and knock it out in the next eight months making 266.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So you're going to be okay. You guys have done great.

[Ken Coleman]

You've shown.

[George Campbell]

Even if you've done it out of order, you know, you don't get an A on the Ramsey baby steps, but you do. You're doing great compared to the rest of America. And so I'm rooting for you. I hope you knock this debt out one way or the other. I hope the forgiveness works out because you've put so much into it at this point, it's just anger inducing. If the government decides to at the final hour. Nah, don't let them through.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, it's induced some anger in me. This situation for Zach has really steamed my broccoli.

[George Campbell]

Uh. Oh, and Ken hates steamed broccoli.

[Ken Coleman]

I do. You should only grill broccoli, incidentally.

[George Campbell]

I'll do roasted little olive oil, lemon.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't mind roasted broccoli.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

But we digress. But can I just say that this is what really upsets me about the federal student loan program. And if I could just say to anybody who is considering it, if there's any way for you to avoid it. Avoid it. The federal government should not be in the banking business. And this is banking Zach's story. You've estimated he's paid $31,000 in interest. The principal hasn't even been touched. And the federal government did this as a favor. This was a good idea in the late 50s and 60s when this whole thing started. And the federal government is simply playing banker to millions of Americans, a lot of young Americans who've been told for decades by the culture, the parents, we've bought into it. I haven't. You all have heard me rant about this before. The college is the only way. And what is happening here is this kind of situation. And fortunately in Zach's case, he's not one that's been broken by it. But it does stick in the old crawl for me on behalf of Zach to go. When I heard you say it that way, it just really upset me.

[George Campbell]

Math can be very upsetting.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And it's all in the guise of, well, get your degree and we'll help you, give you a low interest thing. And it's just.

[George Campbell]

And a lot of people stay in jobs they don't want to be in, in the public sector, and they could move to the. But they. They think, well, I got to do this for 10 years and ride it out. That's a big portion of your adult life.

[Ken Coleman]

We ought to remove the federal student loan program. It ought to go away. Congress ought to get rid of it completely, delete it, and get Rid of it.

[George Campbell]

I'm with you on that.

[Ken Coleman]

It's just, it's sinking so many people.

[George Campbell]

And check out our Bar of Future documentary. It's free on YouTube. It will change your mind about the entire further education system.

[Ken Coleman]

We, by the way, on the whole broccoli thing. Yeah, little olive oil on it.

[George Campbell]

I mentioned that if you go back, listen to the tape.

[Ken Coleman]

Did you say that?

[George Campbell]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. I took it like it was my own idea.

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios. I'm Ken Coleman. The Natalie Attired.

[George Campbell]

My name's George.

[Ken Coleman]

George Camel joins. I was just gonna say something about the baby and I couldn't get anything.

[George Campbell]

It's all right. It's a slow news day.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly right. Joe is up in Massachusetts. Joe, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. How you doing today?

[Ken Coleman]

We're doing well. What's going on?

[Caller]

So my wife and I have about $240,000 worth of debt and we are struggling paying it off while balancing raising our young family in our current home where the mortgage is taking up about 50% of our income now that my wife is going to be staying home at home with the kids.

[Ken Coleman]

Oof. How soon is. How soon is that happening? Or has it already happened? Where she's coming home and now the paycheck's going away.

[Caller]

It's going to be in June.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so we have a little Bit of Runway. That's why I interrupted you there. Go ahead with your, with your question.

[Caller]

Okay, the question is, should we sell our dream home where we want to raise our family, or should we sell it to try to get out of debt faster? That's the main question.

[George Campbell]

What kind of debt is the 240?

[Caller]

We have 150 of student loans, 40 of personal loans, and another 40 of two cars that we drive.

[Ken Coleman]

What are the. If we take both cars, what are the combined car payments?

[Caller]

Buying car being that are probably about a thousand dollars a month. 40 on them, they're probably worth about 45.

[Ken Coleman]

But do you see what I'm saying? Like I detect that that's my first option.

[George Campbell]

That's one solvable problem.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a thousand bucks a month, 12,000 a year. So the mortgage is still too much. And it's about to be way too much now that you're going to lose your wife's income.

[George Campbell]

What is she making?

[Caller]

She makes about 20,000 part time right now.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so we're not losing like the lion's share of the household income, but things are only gonna get tighter at this point.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

What are you doing for work and what do you make?

[Caller]

I'm a PA, a physician assistant. I make about 150, my base salary, and I can make up to another hundred or so if I really grind my butt off.

[George Campbell]

And are you thinking what I'm thinking? I'm thinking we really grind our butt off.

[Ken Coleman]

I was thinking about the butt grinding as well. I really was. I thought this is what you should do. You should do that.

[George Campbell]

If you did that, I mean, it'd be for a season. Like, I don't want you to be doing this forever, and hopefully your income goes up over time. As a pa, you know, would that change the numbers on the mortgage? Because I don't want to run to selling the house as like. Yep, just go do that tomorrow. But if there's no end in sight, no light at the end of this tunnel, then it might be time.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, would you start with the cars, George, if you could?

[George Campbell]

The cars are the easiest thing. That's something you can control today. You can't sell your degree, you can't sell the personal loan, but you can sell these cars and make out with five grand and save some up over the next couple of paychecks and get yourself some used cars.

[Ken Coleman]

And now add $1,000 to the debt snowball to get rid of the rest of this stuff.

[George Campbell]

Because if 150 trying to pay off 240 with a crushing mortgage. It's going to take you a decade. But if we can make 250 and pay off 200, this is a solvable problem.

[Ken Coleman]

George, run those numbers for him. Let's assume that you're getting after it and you're going to make that additional 100 grand. Would that get him in alignment on our 25%?

[George Campbell]

That would probably be a take home of about 14 or so grand a month. Maybe, you know, close to that. And so then you can.

[Ken Coleman]

What's your mortgage payment?

[George Campbell]

Seven or eight.

[Caller]

It's 4,000amonth.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So the goal here with that mortgage, if you can't begin to make 15 or 16amonth, take home that 4 grand a month mortgage will eventually sink you guys or at least really delay any progress financially. So that would be my, my thing for you guys. Let's see what the next 12 months holds. And if we can get the household income up to about 15, 16, take home a month while paying down.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. We want to create a little more margin. A lot more margin, actually.

[George Campbell]

Do you think that's feasible? I feel like all you're saying is, like, I'm going to be working a lot.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, like future.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm already doing that for the past two years or so. But I'm ready to keep on going.

[George Campbell]

Because if your wife's gonna stay home, I mean, that's, that's a big decision. It's one that's born out of family values. It's emotional. It's more than just financial. It's more than math. But you're saying this is what she's called to do. She's going to do it. Now, what must be true for us to. Because you said dream home, and right now this home is turning quickly into a nightmare. When you guys can't breathe, trying to make all the bills, is it worth.

[Ken Coleman]

Two to three years of really hustling to make that extra income so that you can stay in this house for you, not your wife. I want you to answer that question on your behalf, not her behalf.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think, I think it's definitely worth it for my family's stability and happiness. We really enjoy.

[Ken Coleman]

Great. You know what's going to be great coming out of this, beyond being debt free is you're going to go, I'm never doing this again because you're going to work so stinking hard, you're going to teach yourself a very valuable lesson. Yes.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And do you both know that your lifestyle is about to change drastically to where you're not spending nearly as Much as you have been in the past.

[Caller]

I think the alarm bell just kind of went off. So we need to sit down and have a good talk about that.

[George Campbell]

And you know, part of that talk is just laying out the numbers because right now it's going to feel all emotions. And so just lay out an every dollar budget, make it very logical, unemotional, say, hey, I just want to make a budget with you to show you what our finances currently look like, what they will look like. And maybe you guys find, hey, we can actually get our expenses down to 6,500amonth and if I can make 12 or 13 take home, well now that's another six grand we can throw at the debt. Because let me give you some hope. If you can throw 6,600 bucks a month, this debt, you're done in two and a half years. If you sold these cars.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

And a half year later, six months after that you've got the fully funded emergency fund. Now we're completely debt free. We've got the mortgage under control. If we can get our income up sustainably and we have no debt. And so now we have all this extra margin we can use to start making some real progress and not feel like, well, if you didn't stay home, we wouldn't be in the. It's just going to become arguing and stress for the next several years. But if you guys both agree this is what the next three years looks like. Are you in? It changes the game.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah, that's feasible.

[Ken Coleman]

And is she going to be on board with this?

[Caller]

I think so. Be willing to do whatever it takes to stay where we are right now.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And do whatever it takes for her to be able to come home.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And that's. You guys have a great why right now. That baby is one of the best whys to get you through this season. And the good news is the baby won't remember what the heck happened. No, it's just gonna go cool. I have a pretty sweet life. I got mom, I got dad. They're not stressed out. They're present. And versus what normally happens with PAs and docs and anyone in the medical field, they just lifestyle creep takes over. They're stressed out, but man, it looks good on the outside. You got two luxury cars in the driveway. Big, beautiful luxury home.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a great point. Real quick, a little bit more hope. Joe, how old are you?

[Caller]

You? I am 30.

[Ken Coleman]

See you're young, so you've got a lot of Runway in front of you from an income standpoint. Don't you?

[Caller]

Yes, yes.

[Ken Coleman]

So. So, hey, you're 30 the next two or three years. Really tough as far as a lot of work, but, man, does it set you up for the future? Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. That's the mindset. And listen, I'm not trying to give you a pep talk, but we are trying to inject you with a little bit of hope so that you go, oh, okay. Tough medicine today. But long term, man, I'm gonna be sitting pretty, take that, every dollar budget.

[George Campbell]

Create that vision and go, man. By the time I'm 33, we're gonna be in a different place financially. We are changing our family tree, and it's gonna be a good life. From 33 on, we got this. We're rooting for you, man.

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[Ken Coleman]

All right, to Michigan is where we're gonna go. And Renee is there. Renee, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. How are you?

[Ken Coleman]

We are having a blast. What's going on with you?

[Caller]

Good. So I'm just wondering how I can convince my husband that we're financially stable enough to move out of our parents house, even though we're still on babysit too, and don't have enough saved for a house down payment.

[Ken Coleman]

How long have we been staying with his parents or. No, no, your parents. How long have you guys been living?

[Caller]

Yes, it's been four years since you've been married.

[George Campbell]

You've been living with your parents?

[Caller]

No, we.

We've been married since 2017.

[George Campbell]

So what happened that caused you guys to go, hey, we can't rent anymore. We got to move in with mom and dad?

[Caller]

So what happened was we lived in Northern Michigan, and our, you know, our rent was super cheap. Everything was great. And then my parents, they were the people who watched my kids, and they moved downstate, and there was no way that we could financially make it living up there without their help with the.

[George Campbell]

Children because you couldn't afford childcare. So you went, well, we'll just move in with them, and they can just watch them all day while you two go off to work.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

Okay. What do you guys make?

[Caller]

So our financial situation has changed now since then, so we're bringing home about $9,000 a month, for crying out loud.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, what is really going on here?

[Caller]

What is his deal going on is. I don't know. He's. He's scared. And I totally understand why, because when we lived up north, we were living paycheck to paycheck, and we were, you know, getting help from my parents. And now that we've lived down here, we're making at least triple what we were making up north.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And by the way, we're not going to play armchair quarterback, but you guys could have made it work before. And so this pattern is repeating itself. It does us no good to go back and run the numbers from when you lived up there. But I can tell you there's. There was a way. But you're right. He's. He's not only scared, I think. I think this guy has gotten real comfortable. And what strikes me is it sounds to me like you're on your last nerve, and they're your parents.

[Caller]

I am on my last nerve. And I just. I. And I don't want to, you know, because we do help with my, you know, the expenses of living in the house. It's not like we live here right? Rent free. I give my parents money every month. We help with. We help with everything. And that's worked into our budget. You know, what we contribute to my parents, and really living on our own would only be probably $800 more a month.

[Ken Coleman]

Have you sat down with him and showed him an actual budget to say, hey, here's what rent would be? I've got three different apartment complex or whatever you're thinking, here's place A, place B, place C. And with all of those numbers together, we're only talking about an increase of $800 a month for us to live on our own. Have you laid that out for him?

[Caller]

The thing is, is he doesn't. I'm the one that manages all our finances. I manage it. I manage all the credit card payments, all the car payments, the contribution, any trips that we take. Like, I manage it all. And he doesn't know what's going on. He doesn't know what's going on.

[George Campbell]

So show him.

[Ken Coleman]

So wait a second. Do you remember the question I just asked you?

[Caller]

You have.

I sat down with him.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the answer to my question?

[Caller]

The answer is I've tried and he's not interested.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you mean he's not interested?

[George Campbell]

He's the one that says we can't make it financially. You go, let me show you how he can. And he goes, no, thanks.

[Ken Coleman]

He literally goes, no, I don't want to look at it.

[Caller]

He says, no, I don't want to look at it. You, you know, you handle the finances, right?

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, listen. All right, so, so instead of when a guy is this stubborn, he has his head up his, his. You know what? All right? That's all this boils down to. So if he says to you, I don't want to look at it, you handle it. Then guess what? Go, go put a deposit down on an apartment today.

[George Campbell]

Say, I got a celis. Hey, babe, 1500 bucks a month.

[Ken Coleman]

Great news. Got us an apartment. It's only, and by the way, he doesn't know the numbers. So go. So just say, and by the way, this is not me telling you to be dishonest with him. Him cover anything up. I'm not suggesting that at all. But this is a guy who you've attempted to show him and he's, he has literally checked out of the situation. He's not an adult when it comes to the money. And so I don't know why you got to convince a guy nor. I don't know how you convince a guy who refuses to have a conversation about it. I don't have a tip for that.

[George Campbell]

Well, he doesn't care about the money.

[Caller]

He's just so. No, he's just so stuck on. We're still in debt and we, you know, I want to go straight from my parents house into Are you a house?

Are we what?

[Ken Coleman]

Are you still big time in debt?

[Caller]

I mean, we have like $46,000 in debt.

[George Campbell]

Can I, can I hear the numbers?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, let's get Georgia moved in.

[George Campbell]

What did you start with? What was your total Debt balance when you guys moved in.

[Caller]

Probably 10 grand.

[George Campbell]

So you were 10 grand in debt when you moved in. Now you're 43 grand in debt years later. So this whole plan that we're going to move in with my parents to pay off debt has backfired. Spectacular.

[Ken Coleman]

And has he been a part. Has he been a part of acquiring the additional 36 grand in debt?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, he was on board for that.

[George Campbell]

What did he go into debt for?

[Caller]

So he's a hobbyist when it comes to. Yeah, yeah. When it comes to his guns and his bows and, you know, we needed to get a new.

[George Campbell]

He's gonna lose his toys if you guys go rent somewhere. He's gonna lose the lifestyle he's created for himself.

[Ken Coleman]

He's a. That's it. He's afraid of that. That's what's going on. He's a child.

[George Campbell]

But honestly, you've been an accomplice to these crimes.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[George Campbell]

So you've allowed it to happen. This is not like. Well, it's all on him. You both have been very lackadaisical in this process, making zero progress. And here's the thing. It has stunted Yalls growth financially and relationally. And so moving out is not to punish him. It's to go. I married you to leave and cleave not to move back in with my parents while we continually go into debt. While you're telling me this is better for us financially. So you need to have a serious conversation sharing your feelings because sharing the numbers ain't working. And use I statement, you do this and you just say, here's how I'm feeling based on everything.

[Ken Coleman]

What was that reaction when George said what you need to do, by the way, George is right. You kind of did the. It was a little exhale giggle. It was an exhale giggle combo. What was making you. What's going on there?

[Caller]

Because there it is.

[Ken Coleman]

Now we went.

[Caller]

Every time we have that conversation, it gets turned around on me. And it's. And it's. You know, rather than take us collectively taking the blame for this. Because it's not just me that's right now and it's not just him. It's both of us.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. He deflects.

[Caller]

It gets deflected back on me. And it's my problem and it's my job to fix it and wish we.

[Ken Coleman]

Could get him on the phone right now.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

You guys are. You're gonna need some. Some counseling. Some marriage counseling.

[Ken Coleman]

I really. I actually think that's the case. And I think. How would You. How would you rate your marriage right now on a scale of 1 to 10? 1 being sucked, 10 being amazing?

[Caller]

Probably like a 5.5.

[Ken Coleman]

What would he, what would he rate? It.

[Caller]

Depends on the day. Probably a little bit higher. Maybe like a seven.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So we're both in denial. Okay, that's good. We're on the same page on one thing at least.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I. I think if he. Do you think he cares about your marriage?

[Caller]

No. Absolutely. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

No, Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

What? Yeah, that threw me because, boy, you said yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay. In what way does he care? Yeah, like, like as far as actions go.

[Caller]

As far as actions.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean.

[Caller]

We have a very, like, open and honest relationship in terms of like, you know, obviously we love each other and we love our kids and, well, we're on the same page in terms of we're willing to do whatever it make, whatever it takes to make.

[George Campbell]

It work except rent and look at a budget and stop buying toys and going to the finances other than that, crushing it.

[Ken Coleman]

So the reason that we're poking around on this issue is because is he going to respond when you say, hey, this is not good. We've got to go see a therapist and we've got to get on the same page with this. We can't be on the same page about everything else and not on the same page about money.

[Caller]

Money.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm dying here. I don't want to live with my parents. And every time I bring it up.

[Caller]

To you, and it's not just like I don't want to live with, it's. It's more like my parents deserve to not have us be here.

[Ken Coleman]

You deserve not to be with your.

[George Campbell]

Parents or put it on your parents.

[Ken Coleman]

You're still clouded a little, I'd say.

[George Campbell]

Hey, I got a place to rent. You're welcome to join me. Get ready to be an adult.

[Ken Coleman]

How old are you? 2?

[Caller]

33.

[Ken Coleman]

If you watch some movies about a 33 year old couple who've been living with the wife's parents for four years, it'd be a comedy.

[George Campbell]

Jesus saved the world by the time he was 33. You guys can go rent an apartment. You'll be okay.

[Ken Coleman]

You can't drop the deity card on her. Who can live up to that?

[George Campbell]

It's called the Jesus Juke, Ken. It works every time.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow, that. That heated up quickly. Gonna have to get George and Alka Seltzer.

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[Ken Coleman]

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[George Campbell]

Today's question comes from Liam in Washington. Says I'm 39 years old and I own 26 cars that I rent out on Turo. About 60% of them are paid off, but I have about $200,000 worth of business card debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Oof.

[George Campbell]

I understand your view of debt, but my cars are generating income for me. A car that I have a loan on cost me three to 400 bucks a month, but I'm generating 900 to 1,000 bucks per month on that car. Is it still a good idea to pay off all my car loans and have my business operating debt free? I am balancing between paying off my cars, saving for my company reserves and paying myself each month. Is this the right way to manage my business?

[Ken Coleman]

I feel like we have a young Dave Ramsey, except it's cars instead of real estate.

[George Campbell]

That's exactly what this is. But here's the problem. The houses at least keep their value and appreciate. These cars are going down in value.

[Ken Coleman]

It scares me to death.

[George Campbell]

So my fear is he goes, I have $200,000 worth of business car debt. Guess what? The cars might only be worth a hundred thousand at this point as they get destroyed by the people renting them out.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. That is correct. Yikes. Not a good idea.

[George Campbell]

So you're saying, is it the right way to manage my business? So from an entree leadership standpoint, the way that DAV Ramsey teaches business, you're trying to pay down debt. You're saving for company reserves you're trying to pay yourself each month. Yes. All of those things must happen. You got to have the money to do the maintenance and repairs and oil changes and new tires. You got to Be paying down the cars, and you have to eat. So what I would be doing is paying myself as little as I can to survive, throwing as much to the debt as I can while keeping up a sinking fund for the repair. Personally, what I would do in your shoes, I would liquidate all the cars that I'm not underwater on to do this slower. And if that reduces some income temporarily, that's fine, because you're gonna get your butt handed to you when you're stuck with a bunch of cars that you're underwater on.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And the income dries up, and all of a sudden you're going, dude, I have 26 cars and they're getting repoed left and right.

[Ken Coleman]

I'd be unloading those cars, man. Some stuff, George looks so good on paper.

[George Campbell]

Well, I've seen the Tiktoks where they go. Okay, so if you don't know, Turo is actually a great app where you can rent someone's company car.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So instead of going to a rental car company. Yeah. Ken Coleman has a great car.

[Ken Coleman]

Say, I want to get a Jeep for the day.

[George Campbell]

You can go on the app and rent a Jeep and you can do it with a debit card, which I love. No hassle. I like the Turo, but people who are using it as a business opportunity. I've heard the horror stories, and I'm scared. Liam is next up. So if you're going to do this, I would be very cautious and only do it with cash so that you're never underwater and not going into debt. Because any. Any business that is run with debt. Debt is at risk.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

And if you do it with cash, it just reduces your risk and increases your piece and hopefully allows you to survive and grow. So that's our take. I can't go back in time, but I would offload as many cars as I can and do this the right way.

[Ken Coleman]

So. Good. George. I can't add anything to that.

[George Campbell]

So we nailed it.

[Ken Coleman]

I won't. Trinity is up in Columbus, Ohio. Trinity, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. It's great to speak to you guys.

[Ken Coleman]

Good to speak with you. What's going on?

[Caller]

So I am 24, going on 25 years old, and I have no debt. I've paid it all off for college.

[Ken Coleman]

Way to go.

[Caller]

And working. Thank you. I'm really proud of it.

[Ken Coleman]

You should be.

[Caller]

And I've come across a huge income increase this year.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice. From what to What?

[Caller]

Navigate from 36K to 75K.

[Ken Coleman]

Trinity, let's go. Don't just roll by that. We Gotta celebrate that. Way to go, girl. That's fantastic.

[Caller]

Thank.

[Ken Coleman]

Tell us, just so we have context, what did you go from what to what? Not an income, but what was the position? What world are you in?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I'm in the world of like, marketing and digital content creation. So I started at a news station.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

Straight out of college.

[Ken Coleman]

They don't pay anything. They basically pay pebbles and sand.

[Caller]

Exactly. But I knew that if I did my time there, I would have so many opportunities going forward.

[Ken Coleman]

Good for you.

[Caller]

So. So I went from doing almost two years there to a corporate social media strategist position where my income increased to 55K. And then I just launched a social media freelance business to add an extra $1,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Come on, Trinity.

[Caller]

Just with one client right now.

[Ken Coleman]

Come on.

[Caller]

And then I. I got approached kind of poached essentially from that position recently. Nice to be the social media person for a CEO who is a multimillionaire here in Columbus and his sales company.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice. Way to go. Okay, so I guess you're calling to ask us how to invest all this new money. Am I right? Or we had something else?

[Caller]

Well, actually, it's more about. Because I have all of this. Right. I do have a financial advisor who's helping me with the investment portfolio. But I want to be smart and I don't want to get myself into debt. That's not necessary. But I want to travel the world so bad. I wanted to ever since I was little. My passport, never been out of the country.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

I do have a plan to save up money for travel, but.

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[Caller]

Is a travel credit card worth it or am I just going to put myself into a bad situation? What are your thoughts?

[Ken Coleman]

Let me just repeat what you said to yourself. I don't want to go. Now. You did say now that I'm. Now that I remember, you said I don't want to go into. Do into any unnecessary debt. And so all of a sudden you're calling us going, want. I really want to travel the world. So it might be necessary for me to get a credit card so I can get them travel miles. Is that what I'm guessing this is about?

[Caller]

Yeah, because that's what everybody tells you, right? Like J.P. morgan.

[George Campbell]

Have you met everybody? They're bro. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

What if everybody told you it was great to sniff glue? Would you have done that?

[Caller]

No.

[George Campbell]

All right, let me tell you what I've heard and what you probably are about to see. Say I pay my balance off every month. I've never paid a dime in interest, and I fly for free. Have you heard those things?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

And that's your plan, and that's your.

[George Campbell]

Game plan is like, well, I'm not going to go into debt. I'm not going to carry a balance. I'll just pay off the statement every month and I'll accumulate all these travel miles. I've got 100,000 miles that gets me to Ankeny, Iowa. I don't know where these miles actually get you. Ankeny, Iowa, that's where people want to go these days.

[Ken Coleman]

I love that reference.

[George Campbell]

I'm so.

[Ken Coleman]

I love that reference. I didn't even know that exactly existed. I like to go with Sheboygan, but, you know, that was.

[George Campbell]

The people of Ankeny deserve some.

[Ken Coleman]

I think they don't get enough love. So, George, tell Trinity why this is a bad idea. Because it makes a lot of sense on paper.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. So tell us about this travel card. What is so alluring about it?

[Caller]

It's this idea that you could get basically those discounts because I'm always one to thrift instead of go to the.

[Ken Coleman]

You are talking to.

[George Campbell]

Tell us exactly what card it is.

[Caller]

It would be like the Sapphire card with Chase.

[George Campbell]

Chase Sapphire Reserve costs 800 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[George Campbell]

And you get like an Uber credit and like fine dining credit. So things that are like entertainment and luxury versus necessity. I've seen all the, you know, know, I've seen that they've sent the people have sent me these videos. So it's going to cost you 800 bucks a year. So you at least just to break even on the card with all the fees that they're charging, you have to at least make 800 in rewards. Right.

[Ken Coleman]

Fine print.

[George Campbell]

And now you gotta spend enough to get the miles, which are not actual, you know, travel miles. It's not like you're going 100 miles and you need 100 miles. It's this random number they make up which they can devalue at any time.

[Ken Coleman]

Be gentle. George. George.

[George Campbell]

Right. I'm making sure I understand it like you tell me if it's not correct. So is it like a dollar gets you a mile or what's the.

[Caller]

What's the trade off about that essentially?

[George Campbell]

Okay, so let's say 50 grand.

[Caller]

Financial advisor.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, 50 grand gets you 50,000 miles.

[Caller]

Thereabouts. Yeah. I think it might be one or one and a half times, but yeah. Right, right on the money.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so that essentially gets you. Would that be like a round trip flight? Flight, maybe two.

[Caller]

Or hotel. Yeah, or hotel eventually.

[George Campbell]

Okay. So if you actually looked at the. The value of that flight if you had just booked it yourself, you went on Google flights and just found an affordable flight on a decent airline, could you find one that's 700 bucks total round trip?

[Caller]

Might be kind of hard if I'm going out of the country.

[George Campbell]

If you're going out of country, you need like a million miles. So here's what I'm trying to get at is it is not worth playing this game when you are already so successful. Only broke people have to play this game to try to make videos about how they.

[Ken Coleman]

How do you travel the world without a miles credit card?

[George Campbell]

Just use a debit card and there's rewards programs.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh yeah, yeah. But how do you accumulate the money to travel? How do you do that?

[George Campbell]

Just work? I guess I just show up at work and they pay me. And so I encourage you to try that. Just do a budget, have a travel fund, make it a th000 bucks a month if you want want and then book your travel at at the best price you can find instead of being stuck with what the credit card companies allow you to book.

[Ken Coleman]

And you're Captain Thrifty.

[George Campbell]

I am Captain Thrifty. Thank you for that. I'll take that honor.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. When you are tackling debt or trying to build wealth, one of the things we can tend to do is forget about one important step to reaching those goals. And that's insurance coverage protection. Right? And sometimes you have too little, sometimes too much. And either one of those can impact impact your goals, your progress. And skimping on insurance might seem like you're saving a buck or two. But when life actually hits you, you don't want to fall back into debt or at least be tempted to do so. So the right insurance, think of it as a shield around your family and your bank account. So how do you know if you have the right coverage? We've got the answer. It's called the Coverage Checkup. It's a free online resource that creates a personalized insurance action plan that's unique to you and your situation. Go to ra ramseysolutions.com checkup ramseysolutions.com checkup and you can take the checkup or you can click the link in the description of our show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

[George Campbell]

So speaking of speaking of protecting yourself, Ken, this is big news. I want to hit.

[Ken Coleman]

We got some breaking news.

[George Campbell]

Well, it was a big data breach and I want to give people some practical steps here. One of the nation's top three credit bureaus TransUnion exposed more than 4.4 million Americans personal info when a third party vendor got hacked. So these names, addresses, Social Security numbers. So I'm not here to alarm you, but I want to give you some practical steps and there are things that I have done. So first, freeze your credit with all three bureaus so that no one can open fake accounts in your name or go into debt using your name. Second, watch your bank accounts like a hawk. If you see something that looks off, call your bank immediately. And lastly, get identity theft protection. It's not technically an insurance product, but it's something that gets paired right along with that to protect your wealth because this won't be the last breach. So head to ramsey solutions.com ID theft if you want to learn more. And the folks that we trust. Or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. It feels like we get more and more of those alerts.

[George Campbell]

It never stops. Yeah, Evil never takes a day off. Yeah, that's what I always say. I'm Batman.

[Ken Coleman]

Gotta love those cyber security folks. Everyday heroes. All right, let's go to Canada. And Andy is waiting for Andy. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, guys. So my wife and I about two years ago started a chocolate shop. And the build cost way more than we expected. So the business took on about $150,000 of debt. And sort of as a part of that, we have profit this past year of about 99,000. And I'm trying to figure out how best to spend the money in terms of like growing the business and paying off our debt. Debt service of that 99 is about 48,000. It's quite a bit. And then growing the business, which what we want to do is buy some chocolatiering equipment because right now we have nothing. And it's all done by hand. And that's back breaking. It's literally killing us. And I don't think we can keep it up.

[Ken Coleman]

You and your wife are making all the chocolate by hand?

[Caller]

That's correct. It's all by hand.

[Ken Coleman]

And did I hear you say one.

[Caller]

Other employee with us?

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. And the profit, was it 99,000 in profit? Did I write that down right?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's correct.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that gross or net?

[Caller]

I suppose that's gross.

[George Campbell]

So what are you guys paying yourselves?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to get at here. Here.

[Caller]

So we're getting about 60,000 and that.

[Ken Coleman]

Includes your employee, the one other person?

[Caller]

No, they're getting about 40. Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

So we're actually, if it's gross 99. And you're paying 100. You're not profitable.

[Caller]

Oh, sorry. I guess it's net.

[George Campbell]

Okay, so you're saying after you pay 62 expenses.

[Ken Coleman]

So this is after all expenses, including the debt service, plus paying you, your wife, the one other person, then we have 99 left over.

[Caller]

That's right.

[George Campbell]

Is that sitting in like a savings account right now?

[Caller]

So right now we've spent most of that because we had a pretty rough year. Chocolate prices have increased like crazy. They've gone up about 300%. We're doing our best not to pass that on to customers.

[Ken Coleman]

Where's that coming from? What's, what's driving the cost of chocolate up 300%? I'm curious. Curious?

[Caller]

Oh, it's a few things really. So there's been crop failures in different parts of the world. There's been disease blights and stuff like that. Chocolate ever more popular. So there's supply and demand problems. And then, you know, with failing crops, people are looking at using disease resistant strains.

[Ken Coleman]

Gotcha.

[Caller]

And yeah, that like those sort of impact the quality of the chocolate we get and we use the best in the world.

[Ken Coleman]

So 99,000. Do we have, have that sitting in an account that I, because George asked.

[George Campbell]

You said you spent it.

[Ken Coleman]

Then you said you spent it, but you started off the call saying, how do I spend that money? I want to be wise with it.

[Caller]

Well, this is, this is sort of like the next year that's coming sort of projected. We've spent most of that. We have about 40,000 in the bank right now and that's just sitting as cash. Some of it is going to be coming back to us because we, our AC went out and so we were closed for about a month. So our insurance is covering some of that. So we're going to get, get, you know, around 30, 40,000 from that.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's talk about the equipment because there's a temptation to scale, obviously. And that's, I'm glad you guys are doing well. And you're talking about the chocolate. Am I saying this right? Chocolatiering equipment?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm gonna go home and tell my wife today that I talked to a chocolatier. It makes me sound, I think pretty, pretty fancy. So what equipment do we, I, I think so what, what's the base amount like, what's the smallest amount of equipment that, that you would need and it would help you generate more profit? What, what's this? Have you run the numbers on? We could spend this, we could spend you See what I'm saying? There's a temptation to go all in a little.

[Caller]

It's a little tricky. We can buy a couple of smaller items that would just kind of help us out with some of the sages to make it a little less intensive.

[Ken Coleman]

Great.

[Caller]

But the main steps to actually, you know, temper chocolate and have it, like, on hand. Each of those machines is between, like, 20 and 60K. And we temper around, you know, 12 different types of chocolate.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, I get it. I get it.

[Caller]

That would be.

[Ken Coleman]

I get it. But. And I don't know anything about the business, so please forgive my ignorance, but I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to help you think through the impulses here, because the number one challenge of entrepreneurs is the impulse to grow. And you can really make a compelling case like you just did to George.

[George Campbell]

And I usually say triple our profits if we got a $60,000 machine.

[Ken Coleman]

But let's go to that first step before you went to. But we want to temper. All right. And I'm so out of my league here. Okay, so what would that amount be for that small amount of equipment that would help with manpower and less hours.

[Caller]

Which is good for probably around 70 grand.

[Ken Coleman]

I thought that was a small amount. So it's not.

[George Campbell]

You were saying you needed. You needed 12 of these machines that cost 20 to 60K. That's the ideal scenario.

[Caller]

Yeah, the ideal scenario is 12 machines that cost probably the 60K and then.

[Ken Coleman]

But you're not there.

[Caller]

Perfect machines that cost, like, 20 grand each.

[Ken Coleman]

What can you. What can you spend in the 10 to 15 grand? I'm making this up, but I'm also trying to help you think, what can you spend in the 10 to 15 grand range? 20. Max. Max. I'm thinking 10 to 15. That would make your life easier.

[Caller]

There's.

There's one machine that we could get that's about in that price range. It doesn't temper.

[George Campbell]

I don't care about that.

[Caller]

That. That pipes the. The ganaches and stuff into the chocolate, and that saves a few hours of labor.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so is that we could cash flow. That we could pay cash for that, correct?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's right.

[Ken Coleman]

And it would save time, and that would make life better. And you're. It's not like you guys are doing well now. It's not like your audience is. Excuse me. Your. Your customers are yelling for more tempering. And we'd like more machines. You know, you're winning right now. Yes or no?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'd say we're doing really well. The Business has been a huge success since we opened about 11 months ago. So.

[Ken Coleman]

So, Andy, I guess what I'm preaching here is, is pretty patience.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, I, I feel you.

[Ken Coleman]

You called us and we're going to tell you not to go into debt. We're going to tell you. I'm going to give it to George really quick. George, what does he do with that money that's coming in extra those retainer?

[George Campbell]

You're going to have to figure out how to live on less and use all the profits you can, which you need to increase by also increasing your costs. That's part of it. You need to explain to customers, hey, chocolate went up. Cocoa beans are up 300%. We are trying to our best to keep our prices down, but we had to increase by this much in order to stay in business. I'm the customer. I appreciate the honesty. I understand. And I'm willing to pay for your best chocolate in the world. Tack that debt, man. Before we go scale this thing up with cash.

[Ken Coleman]

You guys are going to win big, but be patient.

[George Campbell]

Send us some chocolate picas. That'd be nice.

[Ken Coleman]

Chocolate Turtle.

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell alongside. Excited to be here for you all. Carolyn is going to be up next in Atlanta, Georgia. Carolyn, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Yeah. Hey guys, how are you?

[Ken Coleman]

We're having too much fun, I think today. How are you?

[Caller]

There you go. I'm doing well.

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[Caller]

So my question is a little backstory. So I went through a divorce about three and a half years ago. I am 56 years old and I basically had a start over. So nothing saved. Retirement. That's a whole. That's There's a reason. So at any rate, I'm starting over. And I do have about 65,000 in investments, about 25 in a traditional IRA. And I do have $3,000 in a savings. Savings in the bank. So my question. And then I am contributing to my 401k at work, 6%. So I have. I've started doing that. My question is, the only debt I have is a car payment and my mortgage. I have absolutely no other debt. So my. I owe about 20. A little over $20,000 on my car.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

And unfortunately, my father had passed away a couple years ago, and I was left with a. Well, his ira, which is now a beneficiary ira. So I had eight years to withdraw that money. So I'm wondering, should I withdraw the money? Start slowly withdrawing the money and put it in a Roth IRA to help me in retirement and keep, you know, picking away at paying off my car, or should I take a chunk out of that and pay my car off and be done with it?

[Ken Coleman]

What is your income?

[Caller]

My income? I bring in about 4,500amonth net. Yes. That's what I'm. That's what's getting into my bank account.

[Ken Coleman]

Coming home. Okay, gotcha.

[George Campbell]

And that's after your 6% investing and taxes and health care. All that.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And what's. What's in that beneficiary IRA? How much is left in there?

[Caller]

There's about 98,000.

[George Campbell]

Oh, sweet. Deal.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, nice. That's good news.

[George Campbell]

So pay it off today. Yep. That still leaves you with like 80 grand in there.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Campbell]

And then you can use that. You're freeing up your car payment as well.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the car payment?

[Caller]

The car payment is. Right. Is like 490.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, my gosh. If you do it. You hear what George just said? I think that flew right by you a little too quickly. Like, pay off the car today.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Because that's robbing your ability to invest.

[Caller]

Getting more interest. I was like, I'm getting more interest. So I just wasn't sure.

[George Campbell]

But I'm like, I want to be.

[Caller]

Done with this debt.

[George Campbell]

Well, here's the thing. We don't know what the market's going to do tomorrow, but we do know that paying off your car has a. Has a forced interest rate and a big raise.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

And I would also withdraw enough to cover your savings account, because right now you are. You're one H. Vac. Dying away from going into debt again.

[Ken Coleman]

I love that. What would. Three to six months. What. What would you. George in her case, knowing her numbers, you want to, you Want to see 3, 4, 5, 6 or leave it up to her.

[George Campbell]

Oh, well, you're the emergency single now. And so that puts you more at risk than having, you know, two incomes. So I would lean towards six, especially at your age.

[Caller]

Yeah, I feel more comfortable with six. That was kind of my goal. What is trying get up to?

[Ken Coleman]

So what is six months of your expenses?

[Caller]

Well, I mean, four times six. 24. I mean, I think I would be comfortable with 25,000 just to.

[George Campbell]

So out of the 98, let's pull out 20.

[Caller]

Just put it.

[George Campbell]

Okay, go ahead, just pull out 20 to pay off the car. Pull out another 25 to get your emergency fund. We're at least 22 because you already have 3,000 in savings and that will still leave you with 56K that you need to withdraw over the next eight years.

[Ken Coleman]

Years.

[George Campbell]

And so I would withdraw that equal amount so that it kind of runs out over time and move that over to that Roth ira.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

Because now think about it. You are. You were investing 6% and you had a car payment. Now with a fully funded emergency fund, no debt, we can jack up our investing to 15% of your income.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Campbell]

And now we can make up for some lost time. And once the house is paid off, you can invest even more. So what's left on the mortgage?

[Ken Coleman]

Mortgage.

[Caller]

About 122.

[George Campbell]

Oh, amazing.

[Ken Coleman]

This is actually for someone who had to start all over. Carolyn, I just want you to know we think you're sitting really pretty because don't make me get George to get his investment calculator out. Because you're 56 years young is the way I see it.

[Caller]

Well, thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So imagine you put, let's say 20k toward the house a year. Well, by the time you're 62, this house has paid off completely lately. While you've been investing 15% on top of what you have now.

[Caller]

Yeah, and I did just buy the house two years ago.

[George Campbell]

Okay, great. Well, you didn't buy too much house. It sounds like everything was very reasonable after you went through a lot of life.

[Caller]

I, I was. I mean, I was.

What?

I just took every. What we made on the house when we sold it and I put a lot chunk down.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice. What's your house worth on the market right now?

[Caller]

500.

Come on.

[Ken Coleman]

Fantastic. So now you're gonna have a half a million dollar house. It's gonna be worth more than that by the time you're 62. You're gonna be in good shape. All right, George, what about her catching up on her investing?

[George Campbell]

That will happen over time. As you get rid of all this debt and pay off the mortgage, you'll go from that 15% to 25%, 30%. And hopefully your income goes up over time as well. And so I have. I'm not worried about you catching up on all this, especially once you have a paid for house, your investments will double about every seven years based on what the market's been doing. So if you have 100,000 invested now, which you're pretty close to that based on what you've laid out, if not more, then you'd have 200. If you did nothing, if you invested $0 more and then seven years from there you'd have a 400. And so you'll likely get close to that million dollar mark by the time you're 67.

[Caller]

Okay. And I do have. I only have one kid on the payroll. I have one in college, but she graduates this year.

[Ken Coleman]

Come on, mama. That's a big deal. That's kind of nice. That's another pay raise. Raise.

[Caller]

Yes. I'm hoping, I'm hoping.

[Ken Coleman]

We mean hope you get to determine that. Hey, fly, fly.

[Caller]

True. That's the hard thing. But yeah. So I've got, I've got, yeah, two that are on their own and I have one, the last one to see yourself. So if I can get her off the payroll.

[George Campbell]

What is your gross income per year? What's your salary?

[Caller]

Well, I. Okay, one thing I didn't. So I just got a raise. I only make 53,000 a year. But I also have a. I have a. What is it called?

[George Campbell]

A side business.

[Caller]

What it's called.

No, a.

[Ken Coleman]

Give us a clue. Give us a clue. This is kind of fun.

[Caller]

I need to write it down. Where my dad had put in investments for charity. A charity trust. A charitable trust. And since he passed, his wife. So I, my sisters and we kind of split his portion of it. So that's Approximately, that's approximately 700amonth.

[George Campbell]

That adds to your income.

[Caller]

Correct. So that's where that 4,500, that income until it's gone. Yeah, I mean one day it will be gone. I don't know. You know.

Right.

[George Campbell]

So I was just trying to crunch some numbers for you to give you some hope that you will catch up because you're. You said you are 57, 6.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. And what, what age would you like to be able to retire?

[Caller]

Not soon enough.

[George Campbell]

Oh, you're ready.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let's say that's not a reality.

[George Campbell]

If you're catching up, you're going to, you know, let's say 68, 69.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

That'll still give you about 660 grand if you're just investing 700 bucks a month consistently. Plus remember, you're going to be investing even more once.

[Ken Coleman]

And that doesn't include the paid for house which is going to be worth over half a million.

[George Campbell]

So you will be a baby steps millionaire, retiring with dignity if I have anything to do with it.

[Ken Coleman]

And you, you haven't, you haven't. You haven't sworn love off, have you? The rest of your life.

[Caller]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Go find you.

[Caller]

I'm not there.

[Ken Coleman]

Go find you a debt free man. And this picture gets even better.

[Caller]

It does. It will one day.

I hope it will.

[Ken Coleman]

We believe we.

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[Ken Coleman]

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[Caller]

Hi. I am 28. I have almost no debt. I have no credit card debt. I have six more payments left on my car. Okay, so that's about to be paid off. I bought land about two years ago. I owe 60 grand on that and that is the only debt that I'm in.

[Ken Coleman]

How much do I dirt?

[Caller]

It is 19 acres.

[Ken Coleman]

19 acres. Okay. You plan to build on that, live on that? What's the story?

[Caller]

Yes, yes, I plan to pay it down. I'm not in a rush right now, so I'm throwing all the money at it, pay it off and then get a loan and put a home on it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, what is your income?

[Caller]

I'm sorry, can you say that one more time?

[Ken Coleman]

What is your income? Income?

[Caller]

I make about 80 grand a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

Okay. So over time I have built up an Emergency savings. And I have about 45 grand in cash. And I. I feel like I'm doing well financially at this point, but I don't really know how to spend that cash.

[Ken Coleman]

Where's the. Well, when you say cash, is this in the bank?

[George Campbell]

Bank.

[Ken Coleman]

Or are we saying cash, like laying around somewhere?

[Caller]

No, like it's. It's in a gun safe.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Caller]

I started with an emergency fund, and then I just kept adding to it.

[Ken Coleman]

Why is it not in a savings account?

[Caller]

Well, because I've always been told I needed to have cash on hand and then some in the bank. That's. That's how I grew up. But now I've got.

[George Campbell]

They just didn't tell you how much, so you just went overboard. Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

45 grand in a gun safe. I mean, there's cash on hand, and that's like. I don't even know how you describe that.

[George Campbell]

Are there also guns in there?

[Caller]

I'm gonna say yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay. I'm just. Is this like a paranoia? Hey, if it all goes down, I'm gonna be ready with a suitcase of cash in my gun. Like, that's. I'm trying to figure out where this is coming from.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

If it's from a place of legitimate fear, you know, illegitimate fear. Because I would be taking most of that and parking it in a high yield savings account. Yes. Because there is much more risk that your money is eaten away by inflation. Inflation. Than there is of a bank collapse.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have a rule of thumb, George, on actual cash in your home?

[George Campbell]

You know, someone asked me this yesterday, and I said, hey, I think $1,000 cash is plenty.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what I was thinking.

[George Campbell]

Now, if you have a good reason to have more than that. 2,000, 3,000. But 45,000, I think we can all agree, is a wild amount to have in cash at your house.

[Ken Coleman]

Burying that in the backyard, maybe.

[George Campbell]

We've taken that call. 120 grand buried in tin cans in the backyard.

[Ken Coleman]

We actually took that call.

[George Campbell]

A gentleman in Texas. I'll never forget it.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. I'm joking, by the way. For anybody who doesn't understand sarcasm, don't bury your money in the backyard.

[George Campbell]

But with a high yield savings account, at least you're keeping up with inflation. Because $45,000 20 years from now won't buy you $45,000 worth of goods. And so I would at least try to keep up with inflation in a high yield savings account with, let's say, 40, maybe you start there and you start to put a little bit more in over time, but there's really no good reason unless you contest. Tell me why you need that much cash on hand at all times. Because you can go to the bank and get a cashier's check today. You can transfer money. It's. And there's, you know, you got FDIC insurance in the bank, so you. There are more protections you have in the bank than you do with a gun safe at home. It's your word against anyone else's that that money was there.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah. I really don't have a good reason why it's there. I've just always heard and have a safe in it in both places.

[George Campbell]

What's left of the car loan?

[Caller]

I'm sorry?

[George Campbell]

What's the balance left on the car loan?

[Caller]

It's under three grand.

Oh.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, my gosh.

[George Campbell]

Why don't you just go take three grand in cash and go down and pay off the loan? Why even stick with six more payments to deal with that?

[Caller]

Well, I figured it was helping me with my credit.

[George Campbell]

Oh, no. Okay, well, we'll get you a book for that. Why do you need credit at this point in the game?

[Caller]

In preparation to buy a house.

[George Campbell]

But you have a land loan that you're making payments on, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Campbell]

That'll keep up. That'll keep up your credit score just fine.

[Ken Coleman]

That's gonna get you all you need.

[George Campbell]

Keeping the car loan is not going to do you any favors. I would get rid of it. It's one less thing living in your head, your head, rent free. You're doing so well, there's really no reason to carry this. And then on top of that, you could be using some of this cash to even pay down the land loan.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I don't. I don't think you need 45.

[George Campbell]

What are your monthly expenses right now? To run everything in your house, pay all your bills?

[Caller]

Probably about 700.

[George Campbell]

You can live off 700amonth. Your land loan is more than that.

[Caller]

No, it's not. My landlord is only 520amonth.

[George Campbell]

Do you have utilities?

[Caller]

And that's.

That's part of it.

[George Campbell]

Food, insurance, what's your rent? Phone, Internet?

[Caller]

I will say, I am currently living with my boyfriend, and we have an agreement that if my name is not on the house or anything, where I could get equity if something were to happen. But I don't pay a bill, and so I don't have any expenses in that.

[Ken Coleman]

You're just living with the boyfriend rent free?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, how long is that supposed to last?

[Caller]

Well, and until he decides it's time to get married and Then I don't mind. You know.

[Ken Coleman]

How long have you all been living together?

[Caller]

About six months.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Campbell]

How long you, how you. How long have you guys been together as a couple?

[Caller]

Under a year.

[George Campbell]

Okay. This is very new. You just jumped on in?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Hello.

[George Campbell]

You said, hey, Rent free.

[Ken Coleman]

I'll take. Why wouldn't she? This guy gave her such a dude deal. It's hard to refuse that one.

[George Campbell]

So you're paying for groceries and insurance and the land loan and a car payment. Your expenses are more than $700. Let's be honest. Even with him paying the rent.

[Caller]

Eight.

[George Campbell]

Okay. I would keep an emergency fund of 15 grand.

[Ken Coleman]

Now, I know this is his gun safe. You got your money in his gun safe? That's.

[George Campbell]

That's his house. You got that money part.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, you moved your gun safe in? Why not? Boy, I tell you, you are in charge. Charge. You're not paying a nickel of rent until he puts a ring on.

[George Campbell]

There's one reason to put in a bank. Because right now it's on his property that he legally owns. And if. I don't know, I'm just. I'm. Makes me nervous.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't. I gotta tell you, the I, I. The big brother role. I'm very uncomfortable with this situation. You. You need.

[George Campbell]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So first of all, let's get back to the thing that's most pertinent. You, 45,000 needs to go in the bank, number one. Number two, George, what do we think? She's probably a thousand dollars. So 6,000 is six months emergency fund for you.

[George Campbell]

And I would keep.

[Ken Coleman]

But that is a real situation.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. If your life changes at all, if.

[Ken Coleman]

He dumps you, you and your cash are moving out.

[Caller]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

Or if you dump him, I feel like it's probably more of that than the other way around. Right. Like, let's be honest, if anybody's dumping somebody, it's you dumping him.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Isn't that right?

[Caller]

Right.

We'll see.

[George Campbell]

Does he have $45,000 saved?

[Caller]

No, he does not.

[George Campbell]

There we go.

[Ken Coleman]

Does this guy have debt?

[Caller]

Yes, he does.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, boy.

[George Campbell]

Does he know the, the code to the safe?

[Caller]

No, he has his own safe. I have my own safe.

[George Campbell]

His and hers. That's romantic. That's how we like it.

[Caller]

That's fun.

[Ken Coleman]

All right.

[George Campbell]

We're cheering you on. I would get rid of the debt. I would park the money in a high yield savings, keep enough for an emergency fund. Any money beyond that now becomes, let's pay down this land loan. While trying to save up for the house. I would probably just Attack the land loan. Once that's done, then take out the loan and make sure it's no more than 25% of your take home pay. That would be the wise way to do it so that you don't buy too much house because you can get a little carried away with a landlord going, well, they gave me the bank said they'll give me $500,000 for a mortgage. Doesn't mean you should take that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep. And you didn't call for relationship advice. But it's your lucky day because I'm giving it. You've been together for a year, living together six months. If this guy doesn't show some type of, you know, desire to put a ring on it and start talking about marrying you, I wouldn't keep living with him. And it'll turn into two years and all this, it's just a weird situation.

[George Campbell]

When people move in together before marriage. It's. Well, we've been together for nine years now and he still hasn't put a ring on it.

[Ken Coleman]

Right. Get. I got news flash for you ladies. He ain't going to. He's not going to. He's got a good situation without the commitment. So I don't like it. Make him commit.

[George Campbell]

That's Uncle Ken for you. He's going to Uncle Ken. That's what he does.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm going to do it.

[Caller]

Foreign.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause, pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee.

[George Campbell]

Me and my friend Rachel Cruz will.

[Ken Coleman]

Be digging into topics like sex, money, communication and more. This weekend is happening on February 12th through the 14th and early bird prices start at 749 per couple, but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets [e-mail] events. Hey, if you're enjoying the program, you can help us grow. And we are growing and we're so grateful. But hey, here's how you do it. Like subscribe and share, share, share on whatever platform you're doing that helps us grow. You guys are the greatest marketing program of all time. So if it's helping you, you, we'd love for you to help us get in front of more people so we can help more people. Haley is up right here in our backyard. Nashville, Tennessee. Haley, how can we help?

[Caller]

So my question is how do you break out of the working essentially Hustle cycle. Once you get to a place of comfort, I guess is the best way to say it.

[Ken Coleman]

Great question. So am I to understand, like, you've done the baby steps. You've won big time, and now it's like, how do I get out of that gazelle intensity and actually smell the coffee a bit, huh?

[Caller]

Yeah, kind of. I can give you a little more background.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, give us a little bit.

[Caller]

So I'm a single 30 year old female. A couple years ago, I started realizing that I needed to do more for my future to, like, get ahead. So I came to the conclusion that I needed to up my income.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I moved jobs. And the job where I'm at currently, my regular hours, I gross about 80k a year, but I have the ability to work lots of overtime.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so the last couple years, I've been able to make between 200 to 250k.

[George Campbell]

Come on.

[Ken Coleman]

Way to go, Haley.

[Caller]

Yeah. Working though 90 to 100 hours.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, you got to stop. Seriously?

[Caller]

Yeah. Easier said than done.

[George Campbell]

You've been at this pace for how long?

[Caller]

Probably about three years.

[Ken Coleman]

But that was to get through the.

[Caller]

Baby steps, honestly, the b. So I. I didn't graduate with any student loan debt or anything. I really didn't have any debt. I just really wanted to pay off my house and build my retirement.

[Ken Coleman]

Good for you.

[Caller]

With the hope of being able to retire, you know, in the. In the Future. Sooner than 65 or whatever.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so tell us where you are. Did you pay the house off?

[Caller]

Yep, I've paid off my $300,000 house.

[Ken Coleman]

Way to go. How much you got in retirement?

[Caller]

I built up my investment accounts totaling around 250,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Fantastic.

[Caller]

Have a really good emergency fund.

[Ken Coleman]

How much?

[Caller]

Probably like $60,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. This is screaming. There's another reason why you're working those hours. Yeah, what is the real, real. Come on. You called us.

[Caller]

I don't.

[Ken Coleman]

No judgment.

[Caller]

I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, you do.

[Caller]

I think there's just like. Like, I grew up in a home where there was no money.

[George Campbell]

There we go.

[Ken Coleman]

Come on. It's safe, Haley. You're safe here.

[Caller]

Yeah. So just a lot of anxiety with that.

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

There it is. And that's okay. And I. I think today's call might be a big step in the right direction. Just to say it in front of a lot of people. Say it to us. These two strange things, dudes. I grew up in a home where there was nothing. And it was painful to watch. It wasn't just painful to watch. For your parents, it probably was painful for you. And somewhere along the way, young Haley made a decision. You may not even remember it. Maybe you do remember the day. But whether you remember doing it or not, you said, this is never going to be my life. And it became a statement of conviction. Conviction, because it takes conviction, I mean, soul deep passion to work 90 to 100 hours a week. Am I right, George? Like, that's not grit. There's something deeper. And you just shared it with us.

[George Campbell]

Well, at that point, you. You are. You were running from trauma instead of running towards peace and freedom. And I think it's time to make that shift, to go, we're okay now. Yeah, we're going to be fine. You're only 30 years old and you are light years ahead of probably anybody in your family or even in your circles.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, real fun. Real, real quick. I want George to do this. George is a master. George, would you pull up your investment calculator here?

[George Campbell]

Oh, this is fun.

[Ken Coleman]

She's got 200 grand in her retirement accounts or in her investment accounts. At the age of 30. This may be a moot point, Haley, because part of me thinks you've run this exercise. But George.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[George Campbell]

She's like, I've done the math.

[Ken Coleman]

Halfway through, I realized, like, I forgo who I was talking to right now. Haley knows. So you actually know without putting him on the spot, then you know how much money that's going to turn into over the next 20, 30 years? Yes.

[Caller]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that enough? No, no. Let me. Let me rephrase. Is it enough to never be in the situation that you saw your parents in?

[Caller]

I. I feel like yes. But then a part of me is like, well, what if something happens?

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, play that up.

[Caller]

Then it just kind of.

[Ken Coleman]

What would be that? What would be a thing that would do that to you?

[George Campbell]

Do you think the stock market goes to zero?

[Caller]

Like, I know logically that it doesn't because, you know, we've seen the returns. It's, you know, think about what that would mean.

[George Campbell]

It would mean every company in America goes bankrupt.

[Ken Coleman]

At which point we have bigger problems than reliving childhood trauma.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Like, yeah, that's like, that's probably when there's nobody alive but the cockroaches. So what are we worried about? Like, we all have bigger problems at that point than, well, I'm back to the situation that I grew up in. Does that make sense?

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah. And logically, I can understand that. It's just like it was real for you. Yeah. It's hard because it's like they, like, they'll offer you the work. And so it's hard to say no because I know how much of value of one of those shifts is.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Caller]

And so it's just, it's hard to.

[Ken Coleman]

What are the chances, Haley, you do something bone jarringly stupid with money? What are the chances on a scale of 0 to 100 that you would do something stupid with money?

[Caller]

Probably zero.

[Ken Coleman]

It's like, yeah.

[Caller]

So negative. Zero.

[Ken Coleman]

Have you sat with a professional to talk about all that trauma around money and probably a lot of other junk?

[Caller]

Probably not as much as I should have.

[Ken Coleman]

Can you.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Can I tell you something? I had danced around therapy, done a little bit here and there for years, and I was masking stuff and I was literally trying to just hold it all in. And I finally got to a point over a year ago where I realized that I was turning into an angry person due to several factors. And I realized that I was unable to handle it. I couldn't manage it anymore. Anymore. And it's really, really hard to admit that. But can I tell you, because I want you to hear me, that I think that you can get freedom from this. I really do. I actually think a professional help you go back into the past, see it all from every angle, understand what happened to you, and out of that you get the tools to be able to go, oh, I won't be victim to this fear around money anymore, which will then allow me to live a normal Life and work 40 hours and go on vacation and do something fun and give some of that money away. Because I'm talking to somebody who's got a huge heart. Do you hear that heart on her, Jordan?

[George Campbell]

Absolutely. Yeah. What I'm hearing too is you, you just got a flat tire. You are so good at saving and hoarding and investing. And we need to increase the spending, we need to increase the generosity. And it's going to unlock so much and I think take the pressure out of the this like, well, I could be saving that. I could be taking that shift instead. It's going to turn into. That'll be a fun experience. Let me invite some friends to that trip. I'll cover it. Hey, let me go give to this thing I'm passionate about. Let me go volunteer for fun in the free time instead of taking that extra shift. And if you force yourself to do that with a budget, over time, you'll create those new habits and you'll drop the old ones and you'll drop the mentality of everything needs to be about a Dollar amount and what it could be, what it could turn into.

[Ken Coleman]

So good.

[George Campbell]

Have you heard of the fire movement?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah. She probably carries a membership card.

[George Campbell]

Yeah. Maybe intentionally or unintentionally. And here's what I found. They get there and the goalpost shifts.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[George Campbell]

And instead of, Well, I have 3 million, but I don't know if it's enough. I think I need five now. And then 10 years from now it goes, well, I think I need 10 now because what if. And the other thing that happens is when you stop working and doing something that you enjoy, it turns into boredom. After the fun wears off, that boredom turns into depression. And then you're going to seek purpose for fulfillment. So I would leapfrog all of that and just go to the seek purpose for fulfillment part.

[Ken Coleman]

And through relationship working 90 to 100 hours. You don't spend a lot of time with friends or anybody, do you?

[Caller]

Not, not tons.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, I want you to answer this really quickly. Okay. If I was paying for it and I said you get to take three or four girlfriends for a fun weekend, what would you do? Give me. Give me an answer.

[Caller]

Well, I am taking a trip. I'm going to Maine with my college roommate.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. My point is that's. That's your new homework assignment. One thing a month within a budget so that we. Until you get that therapy and start to learn how to not be afraid of money, I think you need to learn to do something fun. Buy somebody's food in the drive through behind you. Little acts of giving, little acts of fun that are very intentional. You're going to feel Safe doing it.

[George Campbell]

You 401k. Time to invest in yourself. Aly, you got this.

[Ken Coleman]

Our scripture of the day comes from Jeremiah 26, verse 14. As for me, I am in your hands. Do with me whatever you think is good and right. And our quote today from George Bernard Shaw. Both optimists and pessimists contribute to society. The optimist invents the airplane. The pessimist the parachute.

[George Campbell]

Oh, I like that.

[Ken Coleman]

So, dare I say overly simplistic philosophy there. I could pull that one apart. Not sure I completely agree with that quote.

[George Campbell]

Just let it be a tweet. Just be, you know.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I thought it was safe because he's no longer with us. He's not going to reach out to me on social media. I see the truth in what he's saying. Yeah, but a little overly simple.

[George Campbell]

Ken is anti pessimist, I'll tell you that much.

[Ken Coleman]

That is a fact. Don't like to hang out with pessimists. Dustin is in Nevada. Nevada. Nevada. Nevada.

[George Campbell]

I know it's Nevada, but my Nevada says Nevada.

[Ken Coleman]

I. My brain says Nevada. I'm gonna correct it to Nevada. Because I recently met somebody and they really poignantly told me, ken, it's Nevada.

[George Campbell]

So there we go. It just sounds too Midwestern and it's not in the Midwest.

[Ken Coleman]

I feel like I'm screwing it up too.

[George Campbell]

From Nevada.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Dustin, how can we help?

[Caller]

And you're right, it is Nevada. You say that out here, you're bound to get stoned.

[Ken Coleman]

I know, I know. I caught a little heat from somebody here, came to our offices and told me. You're saying it all wrong, Ken. But it really damaged my ego for a while. But I got over it. How can we help you?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I've been listening to you guys show for three months. It's been very eye opening, and I'm eager to get on the debt free bandwagon. Great. I do have a ways to go. So what's going on is that I'm contemplating selling my. Selling my house and downsizing to pay off some of my debts. My parents are kind of saying, you know, stay where you are. Stay where you are. You won't be able to get another house like this or, or, or build on. Build on our place. We got plenty of land and. Or buy a duplex. And I.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, I'll tell you what, why don't you run the numbers because we know what you're considering. Should I sell my house to pay off debt? Walk us through your debt.

[Caller]

So I have a credit card debt, which I've tackled is $3,000. Let me see. Student loan debt, 20,000. Medical debt. It's kind of been on the rise of $5,000. Let me see, what else? My yearly income is 50,000. I do have a side hustle that I'm doing, you know, pay off some of those debts.

[Ken Coleman]

How much is your side hustle? How much does your side hustle generate?

[Caller]

Not that much, but I think about like seven, $10,000 a year maybe.

[George Campbell]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that all the debt?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's all the debt.

[Ken Coleman]

And the income you gave us. That's not take home. That's gross. 50k. Is that gross or net that bringing home?

[Caller]

I would say that it's. Sorry. I feel so stupid.

[Ken Coleman]

After taxes, I apologize. Yes. What are you bringing home after taxes? What are you putting in the bank account?

[Caller]

Oh, after taxes, I think it's about 40.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, gotcha. So. So 40k.

[George Campbell]

Take home what's your mortgage and the mortgage payment.

[Caller]

Mortgage payment is $1,623. The mortgage amount on the house is 196,000.

[Ken Coleman]

What's it worth?

[Caller]

Government recently appraised. It's worth between 348 to 370.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, George, what do you think? What do you think, George?

[George Campbell]

Well, here's what's happening. Your mortgage is about almost half your take home pay. And so you're feeling 40%.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Campbell]

So the question is always, is the mortgage the problem or is the debt the problem? And looking at this, you could clean up the debt and you might still be stressed out trying to make this mortgage payment every month.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[George Campbell]

So the question I have is, is there room for your income to grow in the foreseeable future? Will you get married one day?

[Caller]

I need to go back to school. Not again. No. I'm a single parent, so.

[George Campbell]

Yeah, it's not in the picture.

[Caller]

No. I got hurt and burned pretty badly.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm so sorry.

[Caller]

I'm just. Well, at least not while I'm. At least not while I'm raising my kid. My goal is to just raise my kid to 18. Then I'll go back to the dating game.

[George Campbell]

How old are you?

[Caller]

31.

[Ken Coleman]

How old is your kid?

[Caller]

He's 8 years old.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

But he. He has autism. And so a lot of my time is, you know, busted. You know.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that why you feel somewhat limited on the income professional ladder question that George posed? Because you immediately went to, no, I can't really make more money because I'd have to go back to school. And I do want to lean into that for just a moment to see if that's in fact true or a limiting belief. So what do you do for a living?

[Caller]

Well, I'm a. I'm a procurement specialist for an industrial supply company.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And what is. What does a move up the ladder look like? Are there a couple rungs of a ladder above your position in your current company?

[Caller]

Next level would probably be, like, super supervisor, but all other positions would require me to relocate to the east coast, and I can't do.

[Ken Coleman]

I totally get that. So what would it take to get the supervisor role and how much would that pay?

[Caller]

It would require me to probably get a bachelor's degree in business.

[Ken Coleman]

I doubt that I would challenge that. You should at least look into it.

[Caller]

You're probably right.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's my point, Dustin. The fact that you're. And listen, it sounded. Even when I say that, I know. Sometimes I feel like, well, that was a little bold, Ken. But, I mean, you got to look. Look into it. And when you go, I think it would require a bachelor's. I'm like, I don't know, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But you owe it to yourself and your child to look into it. Because where we are, if we've got a rung on the ladder that we can get to through good work and raising our hand, saying, hey, I'd like to do this, and it doesn't require additional schooling, and let's say it pays you an additional 15, 20, 20, 30 grand. I mean, you owe it to yourself and your kid to look into it. Yes.

[Caller]

Yeah. And I have. And my company actually does offer a tuition reimbursement plan. And I thought, yes, this is finally my ticket. And, you know, I went to my parents with it and said, hey, you know, I can do this if you can just, you know, help me out with child care. You know, I can get this knocked out and, like, maybe fat four or five years, and, you know, me and my kiddo will be set. And their reaction was like, no, your child needs you. You know, you can't go this route.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay? And I hate that.

[Caller]

I feel like a deflated balloon. Well, you are that. There's ways that I can reinflate myself. I just need to figure out what it is.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, for one thing, getting healthy because you've been hurt and there's nothing wrong with you. You got somebody did a number on your heart, and that's tough. And you sound like that. By. By the way. And I'm not picking on you. I actually feel for you. So in this step here, it's like, okay, whatever it's going to take for you to get healthy, sitting down with a therapist and get some healing and overcoming that and beginning to see, oh, wait, there's more opportunity than just the company you're at. You know, I asked you to look into it, and you're like, well, you're probably right. But then I looked into this. There's still some uncertainty, and I think you've got to take control of your. Your life and your situation. But I want to get back to the money thing real quick, George. Okay, because we got about a minute with you, George, back to. Because I think you need to be looking for. For income. I know you're taking care of your boy, but you got to be looking for income growth.

[George Campbell]

And I also think you're. I mean, just based on a quick search, I think you're underpaid for the role that you're in. I think it should be closer to 60 and 90. And so you might be looking for other roles that might mean a local move. It doesn't mean to the east coast. Maybe it's a different field, but you're still in the procurement world. So I would be looking at that and see what can I do without needing to go back to school right now. Because right now we just need to clean up this debt at the very least and get an emergency fund. And I don't think the house is a thing that's like on fire right now where you need to go sell it tomorrow. It's 1600 bucks. You're going to pay that in rent in your area, I assume, correct?

[Caller]

Yeah, pretty much.

[George Campbell]

And so that's not going to solve a lot other than taking some equity to knock out out the debt, which will knock out a few payments. But you can debt snowball your way out of this with a good side hustle and be out of debt. Let's see, you got 28k in debt, you're making 60k. You could be done in 18 months.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. So we, we want you to stay in the house for now. I think that's good for you long term, but you got to increase your income.

[George Campbell]

That's the issue here. It's not the house, it's an income problem. And we're rooting for you, man.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Sorry, Dustin, but again, part of this is if you do what you got to do to be able to afford to sit with a good counselor man and get, get healing on the other side of his heartbreak and you'll be a different man and life will be better too. Thank you. Remember, there's only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.