If You’re Waiting for “The Right Time”, You’ll Stay Broke

Summary

The Ramsey Show Podcast Summary

Episode Title: If You’re Waiting for “The Right Time”, You’ll Stay Broke
Date: March 6, 2026
Hosts: Ken Coleman & Dr. John Delony (Ramsey Network)

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Episode Theme

This episode tackles the inertia and self-sabotage that keeps people broke—because “waiting for the right time” is a trap. Ken Coleman and Dr. John Delony, along with callers, explore how real financial transformation requires urgent action, honest self-assessment, value alignment, and facing hard truths. With characteristic candor and humor, they walk listeners through personal crises, major life transitions, and the practical steps required to move forward.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

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1. Financial Trust, Values, and Relationships

[01:05–08:55]

• Caller: Sarah (Phoenix, AZ)
  • Issue: Discovered her partner hid $65k in credit card debt (he originally claimed $10k).
  • Insight: Deception in finances is a major trust breach; Sarah has financial discipline and feels resentment towards her partner’s lack of effort.
  • Hosts’ Advice:
    • You don’t just have a debt problem—you have a values mismatch in the relationship.
    • “If you don’t share values, you’re going to end up starting your marriage in two separate boats, rowing as fast as you can and you’re in separate harbors.” — John Delony [06:37]
    • To regain trust: Suggest a clear, time-bound ‘roadmap’ for rebuilding trust, with measurable steps and regular check-ins.
    • Ken questions why Sarah stays if values aren’t aligned.

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2. Adult Children, Enabling Parents, and Grief

[09:54–15:50]

• Caller: Lee (Columbia, SC)
  • Issue: Living with his mother, trying to “save” her from $300k debt, but her pride/inertia resists change.
  • Insight: You can’t change someone who isn’t ready; control what you can (your own boundaries, stop enabling).
  • Hosts’ Advice:
    • “Don’t look at her and say she’s being prideful, and at the same time become prideful as though you’re the key holder to her future change.” — John Delony [11:35]
    • Real help only starts when someone requests it and shows willingness—stop enabling, move toward acceptance and grief.
    • Grieving unmet expectations is healthy and necessary. “Grief is simply the gap between what you wanted and what actually is. Spend some time in that gap.” — John Delony [15:51]

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3. Rental Property: Payoff or Wait?

[16:12–19:33]

• Caller: Scott (Fort Worth, TX)
  • Issue: Should he pay off a rental property now or wait until selling in 2027?
  • Advice: If your “spirit leaves” an asset, it’s usually time to move on. Don’t let waiting for “just the right time” paralyze you.
  • Get a second opinion, but momentum matters more than market timing; “I would sell your house in the next 30 or 60 days.” — John Delony [18:51]

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4. Living Financial Values Among Skeptics

[21:02–28:21]

• Caller: Brandon (San Antonio, TX)
  • Issue: Fellow soldiers dismiss Ramsey’s anti-debt stance due to military culture.
  • Advice:
    • Lead by example. “Lifestyle evangelism” works better than zealotry.
    • “I solve for peace, not for arbitrage...I call it a sleep tax. I paid off my mortgage because I want peace and freedom.” — John Delony [27:31]
    • Let your results and serenity attract questions; only answer when sincerely asked.

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5. Do You Still Need Term Life Insurance on Baby Step 7?

[28:21–30:29]

• Caller: Mark (Minneapolis, MN)
  • Situation: Net worth $300k, no debt, age 51.
  • Advice: Still need term life unless you’re truly self-insured (“If you die today, would your spouse be ok?”). Use 10x income as a benchmark.

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6. The Psychology of Over-Saving vs. Enjoying Life

[32:48–41:38]

• Caller: Donna (St. Louis, MO)
  • Issue: Saving 20% for retirement, struggle to spend/enjoy money.
  • Key Insight: 15% guideline balances living today and planning tomorrow.
  • Notable Moment: Donna resists spending; John reads her “You’re worth laughter, you’re worth joy, you’re worth having fun, even if you roll your eyes and think it wasn’t worth that money.” [39:01]
    • Donna’s dream is a trip to Fiji; hosts encourage her to celebrate life now, not postpone joy indefinitely.

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7. Deep Debt, Income Crisis, and Realistic Recovery

[43:44–52:16]

• Caller: Tori (Dallas, TX)
  • Issue: Lost both incomes after buying a house, multiple debts, living off credit cards.
  • Key Takeaways:
    • “We’ve got to fix the income situation—these are reasons, not results.” — Ken Coleman [45:48]
    • Both spouses must work like mad (multiple jobs if needed, sell everything nonessential); $15k debt is manageable if attacked with urgency.
    • Use tax refund to jumpstart; every dollar must be assigned a job.

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8. Should We Spend on a Vacation or Pay Off Debt?

[54:17–63:15]

• Caller: Becca (Des Moines, IA)
  • Situation: Wants to take the family to Disney on a cousin’s Make-a-Wish trip, but has car debt and little income.
  • Hosts’ Advice: “No, you shouldn’t go.” Prioritize financial security over short-term fun, especially given an unstable relationship and minimal safety net.
  • Notable Moment: “Taking a two-year-old to Disney is like hanging out on the seventh level of hell.” — Ken Coleman [62:22]

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9. Laid Off at 53: Can I Take a Fun Job or Should I Chase the Big Paycheck?

[65:55–74:53]

• Caller: Mark (Columbus, OH)
  • Issue: Net worth $3.5M, wife says enjoy; Mark’s anxious about job/income after layoff.
  • Key Insight: Persistent anxiety often masks deeper insecurity—not just about money.
  • Solution: Pressure test your fears—try wife’s “retire now” plan for three months and see how you feel. Use the time for purpose, volunteering, and living well, not just ruminating on financial “what-ifs.”

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10. Hard Financial Boundaries with Family

[85:22–94:10]

• Caller: Kate (Oklahoma City, OK)
  • Issue: Dad has leaned financially on Kate and her brother for over a decade.
  • Advice:
    • Set firm boundaries. “If it takes you giving him money to preserve the relationship, the relationship you want does not exist—it’s predatory.” — John Delony [90:21]
    • You can only control your response, not others' disappointment or anger.
    • Support mom emotionally, but accept you cannot make parents change.

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11. Marriage, Entrepreneurship, and Debt Alignment

[97:00–104:32]

• Caller: Josh (Jackson, MS)
  • Issue: Newlyweds want to start a business while carrying debt; unsure about moving forward.
  • Advice:
    • Don’t compound stress by starting a business on top of debt, a move, and a new marriage.
    • “Y’all are not aligned on how you spend money, how you earn money, the commitment it takes when she’s trying to get a business off the ground…” — John Delony [98:59]
    • Align first on core financial values and finish paying off debt before taking entrepreneurial risks.

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12. Baby Steps Millionaire Success Story

[106:14–110:23]

• Caller: Amy (Indianapolis, IN)
  • Net Worth: $1.6M
  • Career Arc: Assistant trainer, 38 years in insurance, paid for a degree at 44 for herself (“didn’t change my salary, just proved to myself I could do it.”)
  • Key to Success:
    • “You gotta be smart with your money. For me, it was I had to have goals. I planned them out and I had to stick to them.” [109:53]
    • Celebrated the discipline and sacrifices required for real wealth-building.

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13. Beware of Get-Rich-Quick or Shady “Financial” Opportunities

[111:19–115:22]

• Caller: Edgar (Nashville, TN)
  • Issue: Works two low-wage jobs; considering paying $400 for a “money setup” job that sounds high-commission/shady.
  • Hosts’ Advice: Don’t fall for schemes, prioritize stable income, and use EveryDollar to create a budget and basic financial literacy.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On relationships and values:
  “Somebody can be a great hang. They can be loyal, they can be someone you fall in love with. But if you don’t share values, you’re going to end up starting your marriage in two separate boats...” — John Delony [06:37]

• On tackling debt:
  “You have to choose reality. Reality is y’all are broke. It’s a scary place to find yourself, especially with a one-and-a-half-year-old.” — John Delony [48:53]

• On over-saving:
  “You’re worth laughter. You’re worth joy. You have a very hard life...and you’re working a job where you make six figures. That’s not a punishment… you’re worth laughter, even if you roll your eyes and think that wasn’t worth that money.” — John Delony [39:01]

• On dealing with family handouts:
  "If it takes you giving him money to preserve the relationship, the relationship you want to be there does not exist. It's a predatory relationship.” — John Delony [90:21]

• On financial evangelism:
  “I solve for peace, not for arbitrage...I call it a sleep tax. I paid off my 3.2% mortgage because I want peace and freedom.” — John Delony [27:31]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | Details | |-----------|-----------------------------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:05 | Discovering partner’s hidden debt | Sarah’s trust crisis, values mismatch discussion | | 09:54 | Adult children trying to help parents | Enabling, boundaries, grief | | 16:12 | Selling a rental property | Momentum vs. “waiting for the right time” | | 21:02 | Soldiers & Ramsey debt philosophy | Living the values instead of preaching them | | 28:21 | Term life insurance & self-insuring | Who needs it on baby step 7? | | 32:48 | Over-saving, spending phobia | Living for now, not just tomorrow | | 43:44 | Income loss, desperation budgeting | Urgency in the face of financial disaster | | 54:17 | Should broke families take vacations? | Hard “no” on a Disney trip with debt | | 65:55 | Wealthy 53yo, anxiety about income | Testing assumptions about safety/retirement | | 85:22 | Dependency: dad asking for money | Boundaries with enabling parents | | 97:00 | Marriage + new entrepreneurship | False starts, debt, and business don’t mix | | 106:14 | Baby steps millionaire story | Discipline and long-game thinking | | 111:19 | Avoiding financial “opportunities” | Don’t get scammed chasing the easy way out |

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Tone and Language

The hosts blend tough love with humor and empathy, never shying from hard truths, but also celebrating small and large wins. The advice is blunt but fair, with repeated emphasis on urgent action, values alignment, and honest reflection.

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For First-Time Listeners

This episode encapsulates Ramsey’s approach: There’s never a “right time” to fix your finances—only the next right step. Whether the mountain is debt, family dysfunction, or your own fear, the show urges immediate, practical action over waiting for circumstances or other people to change. The stories and answers are relatable, concrete, and often emotionally charged, providing the momentum listeners need to break cycles and move toward freedom.

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For more, go to RamseySolutions.com

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Transcript

[A]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. 888-255-225 is the phone number to jump in 888. Alongside the good Ph.D. Dr. John DeLoney. That was fun to say instead of the good doctor. I just mixed it up a little bit.

[B]

It's more honest.

[A]

Well, it's right at. It's a PhD. You got two of them, folks. He's going to leverage them.

[B]

The letters, right? Like when someone says, like, hey, that guy's a doctor, they assume, oh, he can.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

Heal me.

[A]

Yeah. So we've got an interesting combo. We have a lot of fun, so beware. We'll help you, but we're gonna have fun in the meantime. Sarah's up. She's going to get us started in Phoenix, Arizona. Sara, how we help today?

[C]

Hi. Well, I have a big question. I want to know, how do I protect my financial future and regain. Regain trust now that I know my partner has been very dishonest about his debt?

[A]

Tell us more, and here's what we want to hear. How dishonest and how long ago did you find out? Give us that detail.

[C]

Sure, sure. So I found out it's been three sets of dishonesty, but the major one was this. Recently, in December, I found out he actually has $65,000 in credit card debt.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And finding this out.

[A]

How'd you find out?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So I thought he only had $10,000. And so I.

[B]

Hold on. Did you make that number up or is that what he told you?

[C]

That is what he told me. I am very. A very straight shooter. I'm older, so, like, I like dating. I hit the high points very early on. And he. He had $10,000 in credit card debt. So I was like, okay, that's workable.

[B]

So he lied to your face.

[C]

Come to find out. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

All right. Yeah. So I plan to, you know, I thought we were going to spend a future together and get married. So my Christmas gift was, I'm going to pay off your $10,000 credit cards. And so I went into his open desktop and found a spreadsheet that actually did not have 10,000. It was 65,000.

[A]

Okay. And how long ago was this?

[C]

This was December, because that was going to be my Christmas gift.

[A]

Are you all still together?

[C]

We are still together.

[A]

When you confronted him, what was that like?

[C]

Yeah, it was very awkward. He just said he was very embarrassed that he's not where he wanted to be in his life. And he knows, like, I'm the person for him and like, he didn't want me to run after he found. After I found out that truth.

[B]

And there's some truth to that because you would have.

[A]

Yeah. Here we are three months later, and you're calling us.

[C]

Yes, but this was already a year into our relationship. I found that.

[B]

No, no, no. Like you said when you. When he told you the number 10,000, you thought, okay, this is manageable. Like, I can settle for him in this way. And so his impulse.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

Like what he did was wrong. No question. But his impulse is right. She will judge me based on this debt number and will not give our relationship a shot.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. So he was. And is there. Here I am coming after you. Is there. Tell me about the integrity of going through his laptop and going through his financial numbers.

[C]

Is that something completely accident? No, it was. My Internet went down at my home. I work remote a couple days a week, and I'm in a, like a executive level, so I was like, I need Internet. I need a quiet office. He's like, just go to mine. And so when I logged in, because I. I mean, he gave me his password, I logged in to log into the Internet for my meetings, and the spreadsheet was there.

[B]

Okay, so he gave you his computer. Yes.

[C]

No, I'm not. I was not going.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

All right. But I couldn't not. Look, I'm not going to lie. Once it was there.

[A]

But let's. Let's just boil this down. What's. What do you want John and I to weigh in on?

[C]

Yeah, I guess a couple of things is one, I get the lie, but I'm very financially in a separate category. Like I pay off $150,000 in student loans. Hold on to financial piece.

[B]

You're very, very judgmental.

[C]

Oh, thanks. That's not good.

[B]

And you're. You're.

[A]

You're.

[B]

You have put yourself on a pedestal and you are looking. Contempt is one of the four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse according to the Gottmans. And contempt is a power hierarchy. I am better than you get what I'm saying?

[C]

Mean it like that. I'm.

[A]

I'm saying give. Okay, you may be right, but I'd like to give her a little more latitude.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Objection. Denied. Keep going. Keep going. You were going somewhere. But John may be right, but I want to play this out. Keep going.

[C]

I was Just trying to give a background because again, I've met my per. I thought I met my person. And so I'm willing to give up whatever it is to help him, but not when he's not being honest. But it's also being a 35 year old single woman that got her doctorate. I work 80 hour weeks, I work four jobs. To have someone that's not willing to side hustle the same way.

[A]

That's why. Okay, now that's why John. I wanted to background well, so now John's absolutely right. He got ahead of me, which is not surprising. He has two PhDs. I don't have a degree at all for anybody that's keeping score at home. And I'm proud of it and never going to go get it. So I don't care what you think. However, John did catch it, but I think it's for a different reason. I don't think you're judgmental, but I think he's on to something. I'm going to say you're not judgmental, but I think you resent him because you're bringing up how much work you've done. You've busted your tail, you did everything the right way and he's not willing to at least go get a side hustle. I think you're judgmental on his effort and his just overall gumption. Is that right or wrong?

[C]

Partially. Especially when I gift you financial peace and you're not interested. So to me, that's just. Then what are we doing here?

[A]

There's the question.

[C]

Pay off your credit card debt.

[A]

I don't know why you're with the guy. Can I be honest with you? I don't know why you're with this guy.

[B]

And I'm gonna. It's gonna sound awful. I don't know why he's with you

[A]

because.

[B]

Because here's the thing, Y'. All, Y' all have different beliefs. And me and my wife have been married 23 and a half years. We have different beliefs on a thousand different things, but we share values.

[A]

Yeah, that's great.

[B]

And y' all don't share values. And somebody can be a great hang. They can be super loyal, they can be somebody you fall in love with. But if you don't share values, you're going to end up starting your marriage in two separate boats, rowing as fast as you can and you're in separate harbors.

[A]

I don't think this is the guy. And I don't know if that's why you called. I think I tried to ask you I don't think that this is a good fit unless he. Now listen, I would say this. I. If you haven't told him all of this, now's the time to do the old fashioned dtr. Define the relationship, but tell him where your frustrations are and say those frustrations are leading me to fears that you're not. For me, I'd give the guy a shot.

[B]

And if you want to give him a shot, here's how I would enter that conversation. I have judged you and your work ethic and I've compared it to mine. I've judged how much debt you have. I've judged your lack of caring about it. And I have made my values your problem.

[C]

Well, I, again, I, I'm not so much worried about that. I've started counseling with him because again, I'm invested in him, in the relationship. My concern is if we get through the $65,000 debt, is there a way to regain that, that trust about finances? Because I'm.

[A]

Yes,

[B]

John, tell you, here's how you regain trust. It's very hard, but it's very simple. You give him a map that is 14 days long on what he needs to do to help regain trust. That might be, I want to see your credit report. That might be on all your social media accounts, any number of things. You get to make up the path and he gets to decide whether he wants to walk that journey or not. And after 14 days, y' all reconvene and you commit. If you walk this path, I'm not going to keep. Keep your lack of the, you know, your dishonesty in my back pocket. As an ace that I can play at any time, I'm going to commit to trusting you as we move forward slowly and slowly. So step by step. So 14 days, another 14 days and another 30 days, another 60 days. We're going to give him a road map and give him a chance to follow.

[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[A]

All right, Columbia, South Carolina is where we' going next. Lee is there. Lee, how can we help? Yes, sir.

[C]

I'm just kind of dealing with the situation with my mom here. We've been living with her for the past few years. She's going through a divorce. She's got over $300,000 worth of debt. And I've been trying to lay it out for her, but she's kind of being prideful about the situation. She, she for ownership. So I'm just trying to see what I should do. Should I cut my losses and move on. Is there anything else that I could do to help her? Could I, like, try to get her financial Peace University, something like that?

[A]

Before we get into that part, why are you still living with your mom?

[C]

So it happened a few years ago, the situation with me and my wife that we were living in a different household. The deal kind of went sour on that end and she offered to let us stay at her home. My mom is an over road truck driver and so was her soon to be ex husband. And they're home like 100 days out of the year. So they just said, come home and stay with us. Save up and you can get your own stuff.

[A]

What's the plan to get out?

[C]

So we had planned to get out originally within a year of being there. But then not even six months into us living there, my mother came to me asking for $12,000 to help them deal with their monthly finances.

[A]

Okay, all right. I know the question is about mom and how do I help her with her debt. So, John, that's a really interesting family situation and I was wanting to see if there was any other dynamics with him and living there and all of this business. So this is kind of sticky. What do you think?

[B]

Yeah. One of the hardest things in the world, brother, is when someone we love is doing something that is, is destructive. And they have no interest in our education and our wisdom or our advice. They just want us to participate in their continued lifestyle. And so what I want to challenge you on is don't look at her and say she's being prideful. And at the same time become prideful as though you're the, you're the key holder to her future change. Be humble and say she doesn't want my help. And so all I can control here is me. And so I will no longer give money. I will be willing to talk if you're interested in systemic change. Not just continue to give you 12 grand every few months. And it's probably going to cost me my free housing. And so me and my wife are gonna have to figure out what we are going to do next for sure. But behaviors are language.

[C]

Give her.

[B]

Do what?

[C]

Yeah, we never did give her that 12,000 because that was when we started asking the questions and found out how crazy the finances were.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And so we kind of started stepping through, trying to say, hey, you need to change some things. And that's when her soon to be exos and got upset and decided he did not want to be around anymore.

[B]

Yeah, most. Most parents do not want to hear their children's input about their money or their sex life.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Right. And it. On the rare occasion that your mom comes to you and says, hey, I'm over my head, I need help, I'll do whatever you say because you and your wife look like you'll have it together, then that's an invitation. I'll walk through that door 100 times out of 100.

[C]

All right.

[B]

But behavior is a language. She has told you repeatedly through her actions. I don't care what you have to say. This is my life and I'm going to live it. By the way, it can have $12,000.

[C]

Yeah, for sure. For sure. I think she wanted out of it originally, and now it's just a mixed bag of emotions. My mother was kind of a victim of abuse as a child, and I don't think she's ever really coped with that fully.

[B]

And you diagnosing her or Internet diagnosing her, you putting things on her, like, none of that helps.

[C]

All right, all right.

[B]

I get you the greatest gift you could give her is you and your wife live such peaceful, financially responsible, safe lives. And not safe in the. You don't take risks in adventure, but safe like y' all are a home base for each other. That is going to be a. Your mom may say, I want what y' all have, and probably she won't.

[A]

And I'm gonna ask a question of John Lee on your behalf.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

John, I. I'm. I'm wondering if he doesn't need to shift from help mode, worry mode, and it's understandable. He's a good man. Of course he's a good.

[B]

I'd be worried about my mom, but

[A]

I wonder if he doesn't now need to move to grieving mode and just accept the reality.

[B]

Yeah, there. There is a. All of the Internet diagnostics, all of the. She's got this, and she's struggling with this and she needs to do this. All of that is. May have some. Some drops of truth in it, but that's a way from. For you to distract yourself from grief. Yeah, this stinks. My mom is in a bad situation. She's been in a bad situation for a long, long time. And she's been an adult for a long, long time. And she's continued in some of these patterns. And now she's got a big, huge mess and she refuses my help. That's heartbreaking. And I'm gonna spend some time being

[A]

Sa and Lee on the backside of that is what can I do? I can pray for her if I think that's a thing. I can love her. That's a thing. And I can advise her. As John said, if she comes and asks for advice. Other than that, my friend, there's nothing you can do. And that's why I asked John that question, because it's going to get you to the mental and emotional place that you need to be to where this doesn't drive you bananas. Is that.

[C]

That.

[A]

Is that fair?

[B]

100. So I think grief. Grief is simply the gap between what you wanted and what actually is. Reality, truth.

[C]

Right? Right.

[B]

And man, spend some time in that gap. And it's. And it's heartbreaking. We don't have good cultural models for just being sad, just being heartbroken, being. Being in deep grief for a while. And then we're gonna go do the next right thing for us and our family tree.

[A]

Let's go to Scott now in Fort Worth, Texas. Scott, how can we help?

[C]

Thanks for taking my call. I guess. Pretty quick question. I have a rental property. It's my last piece of debt. Planning on selling about a year and a half. And I'm trying to decide if it's wiser to pay it off or maybe if I have that money to pay it off, take it and invest it and just kind of pay the mortgage until I'm ready to sell it, which is probably about next summer. Basically the summer of 2027.

[B]

Why don't you just sell it now?

[C]

I have tenants in it, and I thought maybe I'd honor the lease I have for them. And they have about a year and six months.

[B]

Can you just still sell it? I mean, man, if somebody's trying to buy a rental property, how cool would it be for them to buy a place with at least of a year already signed up?

[C]

That's good. That's what I thought. I mentioned it to the real estate agent. They told me that usually investors Usually looking for a really good deal tend to sell the property for less than value. But I don't know if that's accurate. That's just kind of what they want.

[A]

Give us some real numbers really fast. What would you. What would you stand to make on it?

[C]

I probably have 100,000 in equity in it. It's about 125 payoff and I have a CD coming mature within the next month that would cover that.

[A]

And it's your only debt?

[C]

It's my only debt.

[B]

Why do you want to sell it? Are you tired of being a landlord?

[C]

We just had a lot of life changes and I just, you know, focus has changed and just not. I don't know, just maybe waiting for an older home for something to happen and having to dump more money into it. I figured now maybe within the next year or two it'll probably be a good time for us to sell now

[A]

based on what little bit. I know I would lean that direction but I'm a guy that I kind of go big and momentum when I feel like life is changing. Different season. I don't know if this fits. I just do it. But I think there's a case that I think John is leaning into here to go. Do I hold onto it? Given your financial position, what would you do with the windfall that you would make? What are you thinking

[C]

with 100,000? I thought I'd come by. I mean I have two JH kids that are fixing possibly to go to school and looking to kind of invest in them a little bit with a portion of it. They realized that we're not paying completely for school. And so it's something that we partially use for them and maybe partially used a few things to do for our primary home and then whatever's left. Just making sure. Maybe a little traditional IRA or something like that.

[A]

When would you pay the house off if you were not to sell it? What's your payoff date?

[C]

If I wasn't to sell it?

[A]

That's right.

[C]

A payoff date would be probably by the end of this month to pay it off.

[A]

I don't think you're understanding what I'm asking. I'm sorry.

[B]

He's about to have a CD mature.

[A]

Oh, the cd. That's right. You know what? That's right. So you would pay it off. What do you think John?

[B]

This is interesting, Scott.

[C]

So basically I have an emergency fund that covers about expenses.

[B]

Here's what I would do. I would. I would get a second opinion. I would go to ramseysolutions.com and check out the real estate pros in your area. And this isn't a sales pitch. This is exactly what I would do if I'm in your situation. I would call a real estate pro and say, hey, here's my situation. I'm of the opinion that when your spirit leaves something, your body needs to leave it too. You already want to sell this house? I would sell your house in the next 30 or 60 days and either have a hard conversation with your tenants or sell it to somebody who will honor their year lease.

[C]

Foreign.

[A]

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[C]

How are you gentlemen doing today?

[A]

Good. How are you, sir?

[C]

I'm very blessed. Thank you for taking my call. I just had a brief question for you guys. I recently transferred over here to San Antonio. I'm a US army nurse, and throughout my career, I've had multiple conversations about finances with other soldiers. And some good, some have been bad. But when people ask me about what I follow and what I do, I always point them to Ramsey Solutions. And there's this consistent negative mindset among a lot of soldiers that I've met regarding Ramsey Solutions. And the primary reason has always been how Ramsey Solutions views debt as evil. And so, you know, the military promotes a lot of things that put you into debt. The government travel charge card, they try to get you on the AMEX platinum card. They tell you about all the different loans and mortgages you can get being a service member. And I guess my question is how, as the average Joe, can I talk to my fellow soldiers about why putting yourself in debt is wrong? Regardless of how sweet the deal looks,

[B]

man, your heart is awesome, brother. Very good, my friend. What do you think, Ken?

[A]

Well, the reason I'm pa. It's. There's an old phrase is when the student is ready, the teacher appears.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I don't want to simplify it to that, but that was my first response. It's. And John said this in a call earlier today, talking to this guy about his mom. How do I advise my mom? And I thought, what John said is great, and I'll borrow it. I think the best thing you can do for your fellow soldiers is actually live with financial peace. And in a way that is humble, you're not walking around talking about how much you have in your emergency fund and stuff like that, but just live it. There's an old phrase in the church world which makes me roll my eyes, but it's applicable here. John and I think it's lifestyle evangelism. In other words, you know, just live in such a way that people go, hey, you know what? When we talk about all this, like, you never say anything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you kind of have some peace on your face. What's your deal? And then you go, oh, well, so I just don't believe in debt.

[B]

I don't borrow money, and here's why.

[A]

I think that's probably best in the barracks. Sorry for the alliteration, but I think that's. I really do. I think that's there because institutionally you're right. You described what's happening. They're up against that. If someone does say, I want to know more, and they're having a hard time with the debt is bad thing, I think you have to reframe it. And there's a simple little construct that I like to use, and that is define the problem, reveal the solution, give the reason for the solution. And so the problem is not debt. When you talk to somebody who thinks debt is normal, the problem is the emotion and the stress and the lack of margin and all the other things. Right. So you can personalize the problem by asking them, how stressed out are you? What does your debt do to you? Like, ask questions. I like to be an asker, not a teller. That's what hit me first. All in the framework of live it and then be able to explain it. Well, John, what are your thoughts?

[B]

BRANDON? So in 2008 or nine, I was. I hung out with a bunch of super nerds, okay? And there was this new thing that came out called the ketogenic diet. And, bro, I turned in to the most annoying diet zealot you could ever imagine.

[A]

I ruined you.

[B]

I ruined. Oh, gosh, can't like Brandon. I ruined every dinner party. No matter where we were. I somehow shifted the conversation to, oh, yeah, Let me give you my thoughts on a high fat, no carb diet, okay? I mean, I. Dude, I was obsessive. And. And instead of convincing people, people stopped wanting to hang around me because they were like, whatever this guy's selling, he's so annoying about it. I don't want that in my life. And now I have a new rule. And I've had to develop this rule since I took this new job, but it served me well in my relationships outside of work. And that is, I only answer question last. And like Ken said, I like my life to speak the, like, speak for me first. And so I want people to come up. I. I could walk into every dinner. I. I'm working on a marriage project right now. I could walk into every dinner and be like, you know what would fix yalls marriage would fix your marriage. And they would all be like, get, dude, get away from me. But if I make sure I put in the work every day to have the best marriage possible and my wife does, too, then people are like, dude, what are y' all doing? Well, how are y'?

[C]

All.

[B]

How do y' all still like each other after this many years, right? And I. Here's the thing, Ken. Ken nailed it. You're not gonna solve an emotional answer with a data point. You're just not. Let me look at our country, for God's sakes.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I mean, you can be like, hey, here's the temperature. And people are like, no, it's not. Here is the sky. Here's the color of the sky Trader.

[A]

No, you're not.

[B]

You know, I mean, like, you're not on our side anymore. And so everything is emotion. And so I love Ken's like, bro, do you have peace? Because I drive an old car instead of a jacked up Jeep that I borrowed for $50,000. And it's depreciating every second. I own it. I just have an old pickup truck, dude. And I don't mind if it gets dense. I laugh in the. In this. In the shopping cart. I mean, the shopping parking lot, when somebody dings it, like, I have peace. You don't have that. That's why I don't borrow money, man. And if you want to do the nerd stuff and go down depreciation schedules and all that, you can do that, but that's almost always not the issue.

[A]

But hey, thanks for your service and thanks for your heart. John. Nailed it. You're just a great American all the way around. And by the way, you'll have the opportunity, you'll have the opportunity to speak into people's lives, but you got to earn that. And John, nailed that. We got to be careful not to be evangelist when they're like, I don't even want to go to church.

[B]

The two words I have found when people ask me, like, and they're being serious, like, and they're not trying to just mess with me because they know where I work, like, hey, for real, for real. Like, like you really don't have a credit card. And the two words that I have found resonate with people are when I say, I solve for peace, not for arbitrage. And like, I, I call it a sleep tax. I paid off my 3.2% mortgage or whatever it was, because I could have invested, I could have tried to make the gap. I could have done all that because I put my head on my pillow every night knowing nobody can take my house away. I paid a sleep tax. And the other word is freedom. Nobody owns my family. No bank, no car dealership, no nothing. So the words peace and the words freedom, those two words seem to resonate when people are actually asking, why do you avoid debt?

[A]

That's good. Let's go to Mark now. Mark is in Minneapolis. How can we help?

[C]

Yes, I'm wondering if I. I know you strongly recommend term life insurance and we're on baby step seven and I just want to know if it's necessary.

[A]

Yeah, let's run through the numbers real quick. How old are you?

[C]

51.

[A]

Okay. And what's your net worth?

[C]

300.

[A]

Okay. And do you have any term life right now?

[B]

No.

[C]

And, and we don't have any debt.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, you definitely need term. So the reason I was asking you those questions is because sometimes people are self insured in baby step seven. And the way to kind of react to this is, okay, if you were to die today, would your family be okay financially?

[C]

Well, they would still have to work, but.

[A]

Well, what would they have? What would they have upon your death, what would they have?

[C]

They would have 300.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And who's they?

[A]

How old?

[C]

Who are just, Just my wife.

[A]

Okay. She working now?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. So, and so the House is paid for. So all the things. So I mean, I personally would want more. You know, I mean we have a, we have a basic fundamental. It's 10x your income, right. And so what's your income?

[C]

50,000.

[A]

So 500,000. I mean, here's what I would do. I'd call our friends at Zander Insurance. Yes, you need term. I think you need term.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yes, you do. You don't have enough. And so at a minimum, your $500,000 policy so that your wife would get that upon your death. I think that's a minimum. But call our friends@zander, zander.com and get their recommendation. Get a quote. You won't believe how affordable it is, Mark. And the return on this is low cost and big time. Peace. John, give you a final word on this?

[B]

Yeah, dude, I. You definitely, definitely need it. I want my wife when I die, to get to decide what she wants to do next. Not have to go do it.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

Foreign.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

It's the most awesome time of the year, folks. It's tax season. That's right. Christmas is gone. That's the most wonderful time of the year, John.

[B]

Mine are done, baby.

[A]

Good.

[B]

Done.

[A]

Good for you. Well, for those of you that haven't done it yet, if you Want to get some free checklists and guides that'll help you file? Go to ramseysolutions.com taxes ramseysolutions.com taxes. Pretty simple stuff there. If you have a simple situation that'll help you. Donna is up next in St. Louis. Donna, how can we help?

[C]

Hi, nice to talk to you both. I have a question about retirement. Okay, so I think we're headed in the right direction. We're doing pretty well, but I was wondering why you recommend 15% to be saved off your gross income?

[A]

Aha. Okay, tell us where you are in the moment. What's your situation?

[C]

Sure, sure. 47. And my husband's 54. He is completely disabled, so he won't be working from today into retirement. And then I. Currently we have $748,000 in retirement, $75,000 in savings. Our house is paid for, no debt whatsoever.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And then I'm kind of lazy. I saved 20% to cover his income from disability and mine together in my employee sponsored 401k.

[A]

Okay, you think that's lazy?

[C]

It's lazy that I don't open up other accounts. I do at the just put the money in. I don't ever see the money and have it taken out. Each paycheck for both of us.

[A]

I don't think that's lazy. I think you're incredibly disciplined. So what's at the root of this question? I understood your question, but what's the question behind why do I need to save 15% when you're already saving 20?

[C]

I'm very bad at spending money.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So it's good to have bumpers in place so that I can plan accordingly and know where to spend that and know when I retire that I, you know, I'll have about this much money and I can take out about this much. I just wondering the logic of the 15%. So I have bumpers, so to speak.

[A]

Well, again, I appreciate that, but I'm not hearing somebody who. So somebody who loves to spend so much and you're self aware and you kind of beating yourself up a little bit. You've done a darn good job.

[C]

Oh, no, no, no. I don't like to spend. I'm horrible at spending.

[A]

Oh, I misunderstood. You won't spend any money.

[C]

I got with money in my bank than I would a new pair of shoes.

[A]

I misunderstood. All right, I'm gonna bring in the good doctor over here who's been pursing his lips, furrowing his brow.

[B]

I think you're awesome, Donna.

[A]

I do too.

[C]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

But why 15? I mean, 15 is, is.

[B]

It's a number that will get most people to a comfortable retirement that does not take away the ability to live and enjoy their life while they're having, while they have it. So if you retire, I mean, if you put away 7%, 10% every month, you're going to find yourself not taking advantage of the full capacity of compound growth over time so that you're, and again, you are thinking about future you. So when there comes a day and your care of your husband's gonna going to go up, it's going to be more, become more difficult, more time consuming, you have put in them a good amount of money that's going to keep you all comfortable and safe there when you're no longer able to work. And conversely, if you save 50% of your income every day, you're going to end up with a ton of money and you're going to sit there at 70 on your, on your, on your front porch and realized, oh, my knees don't work. I can't go skiing now. I can't, I can't do the things that I could have done when I was younger. So 15% gives you a number that's, that is, It's a stretch for some people. For you, it sounds like is. It sounds like it's not enough for you.

[C]

I do 20 just to cover my husband's disability. So it's our whole gross. But. And do you pleasure from saving?

[B]

Are you saving out of a, out of, out of a, out of a scarcity mindset, out of a compulsion or you have a husband with unique needs right now and so you just see, you know what, this makes me feel safer today. I have no problem not doing X, Y or Z because I really want to make sure we're good on the back end.

[C]

I would say some of both. I wouldn't call it a compulsion to save, but I definitely know that he's a little older than me. He does, he is disabled. It's going to cost a little bit. And I don't have children, so I want to make sure I have things in place that I can be taken care of. And I always say taken care of well, but they also, you know, they get to enjoy themselves as well while they're taking care of me.

[A]

What is your income?

[C]

Sure. Our GROSS Income is 135,000.

[A]

How much of that is you?

[C]

He makes about 28,000.

[A]

Yeah, so. So after all expenses paid and everything, how much margin do you have at the end of most months?

[C]

I Can live on a shoestring.

[A]

I knew that.

[C]

No car payment, so we. If we had to, we could live on his disability.

[A]

No, no, but you didn't answer my question. You didn't answer my question. I want a real number. I'm not holding you to it. I'm going somewhere with this. On an average month, how much extra cash do you have at your disposal? Because you know where I'm going, not

[B]

what you can do.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I've done backpacking hunts out in the middle of the woods in the wilderness for days. I can do that.

[A]

How much cash?

[B]

That's not sustainable.

[A]

How much cash do you have left over?

[C]

So I would say between 3 and $4,000, depending if my critters get in a scuffle or something.

[A]

Okay, I get it. And the reason I'm asking is John said something that made me ask that question. And I think whether you keep it to 20%, not going to argue about that, or you drop it to 15. John just said something I think is really smart. You need to take some of that, let's call it 3000, and do something fun. Just live.

[B]

You're an incredible wife. I know it is.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because you're worth it?

[A]

Is that what it is?

[C]

I'm sorry, what'd you say?

[B]

You don't think you're worth it?

[C]

I never think things are worth the cost, if that makes sense. I'm like, yeah, I could stay at home. It doesn't make a difference. We are getting a new bathroom. So I am.

[A]

Oh, come on. That's where you.

[B]

That's where you go number one.

[A]

Number two, like, what brings you Women like a bathroom? What is.

[B]

What is fun?

[C]

I like walking my dog and hanging outside.

[A]

Bad answer.

[B]

Come on.

[C]

Bad answer.

[A]

No, no, no, no. Let me ask it this way.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

What is something you have thought about doing recently and you went to your default answer you just shared with all of us, which is, I don't think it's worth spending money on that. Give me a real answer

[C]

for myself. I don't. But my husband, he always wants to get, you know, a new this or new that. I'm like, yeah, we don't need it.

[B]

All right, here's your whole.

[A]

John's reading your mail. No, I'm not letting her off the hook.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

John's reading your mail. I think she's copping out by saying, I don't think it's worth it. I think you're onto something. Dig a little bit. Yeah, I know he is.

[B]

You have.

[A]

So does the Audience, by the way, they're shaking their head in the lobby.

[B]

Listen, Donna, I, I can only. I, I could talk to you for an hour, and we don't have that kind of time. I want you to, I want you to tattoo what I'm about to tell you right in the middle of your soul. Okay? You're worth. You're worth laughter. You're worth having fun. You. You have a very hard life. You're taking care of somebody as a primary caregiver, and you're working a job where you make six figures. That is not a punishment that you, quote, unquote, deserve. That is a role you have nobly and honorably stepped into. And we celebrate you. And you're worth laughter. You're worth joy, you're worth having fun, even if you roll your eyes and think that wasn't worth that money. And so your homework assignment is, where's a place you want to go visit? Where is a place that you want to take two of your girlfriends or your sister or your husband or what that we want to go? And it's going to be obnoxious and it's going to be expensive, and we are going to have a story to tell on our front porch one day when we're rocking in our rocking chairs. You know what I'm saying?

[C]

Yeah, I have one in mind, but I say I'm not.

[B]

What is it? What is it? What is it? Say it. Rip it. Rip it. What is it?

[C]

I can't die until I see Fiji.

[A]

But you're, you have $3,000 in margin every month and you're in great financial shape.

[B]

How old are you?

[A]

Save up. Like John said, what's a, what's a cost of a trip to Fiji? Run the numbers on it and save up a little bit, but book the trip as soon as you get it. But I think you need to start. I think you need to crawl before you walk. Donna, when was the last time you did an entire spa day at a really high end spa?

[C]

I don't do things like that.

[B]

Okay? I do today. Today you book it.

[A]

You book it today, it's going to change your life. By the way, don't go to Fiji

[B]

when you're seven and you can't go snorkeling and you can't run on the beach. Go when you're 40 freaking 7, you can afford it and you've worked hard.

[A]

Owning a business can be a heavy load. You want to serve your customers well, make a healthy profit and grow. And your team, family and customers are all counting on you. And now everybody's talking about AI like it's magic and you're wondering how to keep up. You're carrying a lot, but you don't have to do it all alone. That's where NetSuite comes in. Over 43,000 businesses, including Ramsey Solutions, use NetSuite to lighten the load by bringing all their numbers into one system. Accounting, inventory, CRM, payroll, the works. And now NetSuite's AI takes it further. Automating busy work, flagging inventory issues, spotting cash flow problems in real time, and catching risks before they hit. So you're not just closing the books faster, you're making decisions confidently. And when your numbers are right, that takes a lot of pressure off your shoulders. And yeah, switching systems is a big move. But NetSuite's suite success process gets you up and running fast. Go to netsuite.comramsey for a free product tour and to schedule time with a NetSuite rep. That's NetSuite.com Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. The phone number to jump in today is 888-825-5225. Tori is up next in Dallas, Texas. Tori, how can we help?

[C]

Hey there. So I'm just calling for some advice. So me and my husband bought a house in early 2024. We were both working, everything was going great. And then come 2025, we both lost our jobs within about three months of each other. We honestly had no savings. We didn't realize how much cost goes into buying a house and all the would need to purchase for our house. So we completely ran through all of our savings doing that. When we lost both of our jobs, we had, you know, the house payment, we have bills. And then we also had purchased jet skis a few months before this happened. So we had that monthly payment along with the car insurance and his truck note. So we ended up, you know, essentially living off of our credit cards. The mortgage company, I tried to get our mortgage lowered. I was getting unemployment at the time. He was not eligible for unemployment. This helped a little bit, but we did fall behind on the mortgage. I asked them for a lower mortgage. They made us enter a forbearance before they lowered everything. So we did that and now I'm working again. He is currently not working just because we do have a one and a half year old, so we would have to put her in daycare, which would basically be my entire paycheck. And he is planning to leave for the military. We just don't know when. So right now we sold his truck to get rid of that in the insurance payment. But even with doing that, we're still not making ends meet. The credit cards are getting way past due, and we also have to pay back what was past due on the house. So I. I don't even know where to start with everything or how to catch up.

[A]

Well, first things first, we gotta fix the income situation. And I'm hearing really good logical excuses, but they're excuses. Okay, We've got a one and a half year old, so my husband can't work. Daycare is too expensive. I get it. And by the way, that's all real. I'm not minimizing it, but I'm hearing logical reasons as to why we aren't working like crazy because we have an income problem. So let's just get specific about that first and then we'll dive into how do we climb out of this. Did you replace your income or are you. Are you making less? Are you making more? What is your income situation today versus where it was before you lost the job?

[C]

So I'm making the same amount that I was making before, which is how much I bring in. Probably about 2,500amonth.

[A]

Doing what?

[C]

So I actually work. I do billing.

[A]

For just a small business or big corporation. Okay.

[C]

For a small business. Medical.

[A]

Okay. And what did your husband do and what was he making?

[C]

So he was a manager for logistics and he was making more than me, probably about 3,000.

[A]

Okay, so neither one of you were in high paying jobs and yet we were buying toys. I just want to call that out. Do you understand what I'm saying?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. And when. Give us more on this military thing. That was just as fuzzy as it could be. What do we know?

[C]

So he's enlisted in the military. We do have to wait, you know, to find out when he goes too basic. It's sort of a waiting game with him.

[A]

Do we have a range?

[C]

I'm sorry, what was that?

[A]

Do we have a range? In other words, is the. What branch is he in?

[C]

So he's going into the army.

[A]

Going to the army. And so the army hasn't told him. It might be three months, it might be six months. Is it just open ended? We have no idea. Sit by the phone.

[C]

Yeah. As of right now, it's basically sit and wait.

[A]

Okay. And we have no one that can watch your child. That is not a professional daycare situation.

[C]

No. She actually used to stay with a family member who decided to go back to work.

[A]

Okay. And could he work on the hours when you're at home?

[C]

Yes. So he has been doing part time delivery.

[A]

No, no, no, no. The max amount of money, if he can make $20 an hour scooping something in a warehouse somewhere, that's what he does until the army calls him three.

[B]

Three jobs.

[A]

Three jobs. If he's watching the baby during the day, then he, you don't see him at night, he doesn't sleep, he works on the weekends. I mean that, this is the kind of level of intensity I want you to understand. You need, you need income. And can I tell you something you need to be figuring out in the days ahead. I love that you got back to where you were, but you aren't making enough either. Okay, John, you want to walk through the debt situation, how they get out of it?

[C]

It.

[B]

I mean, y' all are in a position now where y' all have like, you have to choose reality. Reality is y' all are broke. And this is a scary, scary place to find yourself. Especially with a one and a half year old. Especially with, with a husband who's about to be gone for who knows how long and who knows where. And if you're not honest, if you don't choose reality about how this is emotionally taxing you, how y' all have no peace, you'll have no freedom in your home. You're not going to have the emotional, to use Ken's word, juice. You're not going to have the emotional energy to go do what has to be done in this moment. And what has to be done right now is both of y' all have to work maniacally to climb out of this thing. Sell everything you have. Sell the Jet Skis. And if you're upside down on the Jet Skis, which you probably are because those are insane depreciating assets, then save up the gap and sell them and go pay those stupid things off.

[C]

Off. So I actually did let them. I did let them take the Jet Skis. They went to auction and they gave them probably about 10, $11,000.

[B]

Good gosh. That's why we don't let things go to auction.

[A]

Are you guys on a budget at all?

[C]

So I know my PayPal paycheck.

[A]

No. The answer is no. Just tell me what's your total debt load?

[B]

If you, if you had to write a check today and would clear you and your husband back to zero, what would number be?

[C]

Probably about 15,000 including what is what was in the forbearance.

[A]

I'll tell you something, that's the best news I've heard on this phone call

[B]

that is such a manageable problem.

[A]

If you go crazy working and selling everything. And you got to get on a budget now, we're going to give you every dollar, okay? So in a minute, I'm going to put you on hold and we're going to get you in every dollar for free. Our gift. You have got to start where every dollar is going because right now, to John's point, you're broke. You have no wiggle room at all. But you guys have got to go make some money.

[C]

Okay?

[B]

And 15 grand is a very overcomeable problem.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[C]

Okay. I am getting a good amount back on my income taxes.

[A]

How much?

[C]

A little over 10,000.

[A]

Okay, great. So $1,000 goes immediately. Baby step one. Are you familiar with the baby step?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, baby step, $1,000.

[B]

Done.

[A]

Then we take 9,000.

[B]

Every penny.

[A]

Put it.

[B]

Every penny.

[A]

That's right. And now we're down to $6,000 of

[B]

debt, which he should be able to clear with three jobs in 30 freaking days.

[A]

Now, with a budget, you just got a raise. You take all that debt and what am I paying minimum per month? We just got that in a raise because we are budgeting now.

[B]

Wow. And I want you to tell him with all the compassion in your heart that Ken and I called out his fatherhood and his husbandry. He needs to get off his butt and go take care of his freaking family today.

[A]

For the record, since he's going into the army, it was just John that said that. Just John. I'm just over here.

[B]

He needs to get Afghan. He needs to serve your family as much as he's about to go serve this country.

[A]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is

[B]

essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long term disability insurance. Yeah. It's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income. So the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great. Take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan. Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up. And that's why Zander is our go to. They make it super simple to get

[B]

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[A]

No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. So don't wait.

[B]

It's fast, it's easy, and it could

[A]

make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family. All right, let's go to Des Moines, Iowa. Becca is joining us there. Becca, how can we help?

[C]

So my daughter is going on a trip in June for my cousin's daughter's make a Wish trip. And we were thinking it would be nice to go as a family with myself, my boyfriend, and my 2 year old and just do it all together. And it would be roughly 5,000 at the max for us three to go since my daughter is already paid for.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So I was just wondering if it would be worth it to go or not.

[A]

Well, tell us the reason that you're asking us. There's. There's another part of the story. Why are you questioning whether or not this is a no brainer?

[C]

Well, I stay home so I don't have a steady income. We. We are going to use the money that we got back from our taxes to do it. So we don't always just have that money, but we're working on it.

[A]

Do you have debt?

[C]

The only debt we have is my car.

[A]

How much?

[C]

10.

[A]

How much are you getting back from taxes?

[C]

He's getting 4,000 and I'm getting 4,000. So 8,000 altogether.

[B]

And then tell me about your daughter.

[C]

She's nine. She. We've never been on vacation. None of us. So this would be. She's gonna go regardless if we go, but I just thought it would be nice to go as a family.

[B]

So who's make a Wish trip is it?

[C]

It's my cousin's daughter. She's had cancer and is in recovery, so they're. They're doing that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

No, you shouldn't go.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I'm watching the reason I let the awkward silence is because there's a lady out in the lobby who's looking at me like I have no heart, like there's a lump of coal in my chest. And I appreciate that and I understand. I think I know where her emotion's coming from and I think I know where John's emotions coming from and I understand the make a wish thing is. That's a really big deal. Maybe I should ask what the severity of the situation is, but I just have a feel from you, the way you're wording all of this, that this is, isn't as big as maybe it sounds. And, and so in that case, you guys, I hate that you've never gone on a vacation, you know, but you guys don't have a lot of income, you're not working. I, I think for that reason that that tax refund is going to go a long way to getting out of that car payment. What's your car payment every month?

[C]

It's 150 every two weeks.

[A]

Yeah. So 300amonth. Okay. So what would 300amonth mean to your every, every month income?

[C]

I do, I do photography on the side, but it's not, it's not what I asked you.

[A]

What would a $300 a month insertion into your monthly budget mean to you guys?

[C]

Not, not much, I don't think.

[B]

Maybe that should be your water bill and part of your light bill, right?

[A]

Yeah. That's not the answer I was expecting from someone who told me that, you know, what is your husband's income?

[C]

He makes 58 a year.

[A]

That's not a lot of money. And you're not making any money. So for that reason I'm taking a hard line. I love that your daughter gets to go with her cousin, but do you need to go with the 2 year old to the tune of 5000 given you guys are brought broke and if the audience doesn't like it, I, I just don't think it's a good move. John, disagree with me. I, I have no problem, by the way.

[B]

No, I, this isn't sitting right in your spirit. I want to hear why it's not.

[A]

Yeah, that's the other thing.

[C]

I just, I'm always worried about money. Always. Whether we have it or we don't.

[A]

Well, because you don't have.

[B]

Yeah, your worry, your worry is justified.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so whenever I'm worried or whenever I'm anxious about something, I want to first ask, is my body right? And in this case you and your. Is it your boyfriend? You said yeah. And how many kids do you have?

[C]

I have two. We have one together.

[B]

Okay. And how old are they?

[C]

My daughter is nine and my son is two.

[B]

Okay, can I be real, real direct with you since we have short time?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You as the live in girlfriend are in a very precarious position right now, especially with no income. And you feel that, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Your body's right. And so if you told me I have a super stable situation, I have earning potential, I am married in a long term marriage and we are anchored in and this niece that I've got cousins that I know really well, I've got cousins that I don't know at all. This niece is like a daughter to me. Then in that situation I would say, dude, go, just go, go. Yeah, I'm not getting that sense. I'm getting a sense of I'm, I am a, in a very fragile position as the girlfriend of the chief breadwinner. I don't have a lot of, I don't have equal power at the table in my romantic relationship. I'm taking care of these kids. Our money situation is very, very fragile and I'm just sick and tired of it. And I'm going to to express my sick and tired by not going to get a job, not demanding that, hey, we need to get married and we need to make this thing official so that we can both anchor into this thing together. I'm going to take that out by taking the trip I just deserve.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're going to come back from a $5,000 trip exhausted. Your kids are going to be cooked. They're going to have fun because it's freaking Disney. But you're going to come back and you're going to have taken 8,000 of those dollars. And you know as well as I do that spending his tax return is going to come at a cost. You know that. And you're going to come back having spent. Go ahead, go ahead.

[C]

I think our, our relationship is pretty good. We don't like, consider, oh, this is my money and this is your money. All of our money is together.

[A]

Well, you don't have any. Number one. And number two, you guys aren't married again.

[B]

It's a fragile position. Let me put it this way. If he, if he decides he doesn't want to be your boyfriend anymore today, what, what happens?

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

There we go. So, so I, I, I, I am, I am heartbroken with you and I'm siding with Ken on this one because I feel like you're about to go spend five grand you don't have because you're just sick and tired of being stuck in a position that you have a lot of autonomy to actually change. But that auto, that, that change is going to disrupt the, the re like the rhythm of your relationship. It's going to disrupt the r home. It's going to disrupt a lot of stuff. But on the other side of that disruption is potentially a whole lot of peace.

[A]

And I want to dovetail off of that. Becca, here's what I would prescribe for you is that you let the sadness and some anger of over not being able to do this trip fuel you and why don't you guys get married and let's commit and let's pay this debt off really fast because you can't. And let's get $300 extra a month going and let's keep walking the baby steps out and get her an emergency fund and let's be patient and wait five years and take both kids to Disney because I'm going to tell you something right now. The little one is how old?

[C]

2.

[B]

2.

[A]

Can I tell you something? Taking a 2 year old to Disney is like hanging out on the seventh level of hell.

[B]

It's like setting money on fire.

[A]

By the way, everybody in the lobby agrees with me. You're going to think you're doing something and you're going to go, I wish I had paid the car off and saved myself the stress of dragging a two year old around the happiest place on earth. The irony of that is just rich. So you know, this is a little bit of let me say no to something that would be good so I can say yes to the best scenario for my life going forward. And you are really close to being debt free. Let's get get boyfriend into a husband. Let's get husband a better job and then we go to Disney and we don't feel it. And that way when you're miserable, you just spend a little bit more money on ice cream and then it all regulates.

[B]

I know that's not the answer you wanted, Becca, but that's just, that's just your, your brother skin and John being honest with you today.

[C]

Sam, If you're looking for a more budget friendly way to save on medical costs and stay true to your values, Christian Healthcare ministries is a great option to think about. CHM is not health insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry.

[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[B]

That kind of freedom is big, especially

[C]

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[A]

CHM has been around for decades, faithfully

[C]

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[B]

And right now, CHM's offering new member

[A]

a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Get [e-mail] budgets and use promo code RAMSEY.

[B]

That's chministries.org budget and promo code Ramsey.

[A]

Buying or selling your home is a big, big money deal. You know that There's a lot of clickbait junk out there, a lot of slop that can confuse you and it's hard to know what's really going on. So we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Mortgage rates moving up and down a little bit, right? Home prices dipped a little bit below 400,000 last month. To learn more about the housing market trends and to get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com market. That's ramseysolutions.com market. Mark is up in Columbus, Ohio now. Mark, how can we help?

[C]

Hey Ken and John, thanks for taking my call. It's an honor to talk to you guys.

[A]

You too.

[C]

I was laid off of my job after nearly 30 years at the same company not too long ago where I was making about 190k. Now my wife and I have kind of different point of view of whether I can get another job doing whatever I want, just don't care what it makes or whether I need to make more money. Because the deal is I'm only 53 and I won't be able to touch our retirement stuff for another six and a half years. And so we need to figure out what the next steps for us are. So our NET worth is 3.5 million and we have about 699k in non retirement accounts. And my wife is convinced that I don't need to work to make a bunch of money. And I'm kind of the one that worries about this stuff. And so I need to figure out if I can do something for fun no matter what it makes or whether I need to go find another job making about 190k or so for the next 6 years.

[A]

Okay, a couple quick questions. What were you doing?

[C]

I was working at a big tech company, Education Tech company. I was doing a user interface design. User experience design.

[A]

Okay. How would you describe yourself as a

[C]

professional user experience designer?

[A]

Ux. Okay. Okay. So next I want to know, because you're the guy that's in the weeds on the money. You're the guy that's worried. Your wife seems to feel really good about it. How much money? Let's forget what we're doing. How much money? If I could just hand it to you. I said, all right, Mark, you're going to make this for as many years as you feel comfortable. How much money would be enough? And I'm talking gross salary. Salary.

[C]

Well, we have different views, my wife

[A]

and I, but I didn't ask what her view is. I want to know what your view is.

[C]

I feel like at this point, if I could make 50k a year, just enough to cover some of the expenses, that it would be okay.

[A]

Okay. And is she very in tune with what you guys have? You guys do the numbers together? She's not just saying this from some emotional point of view?

[C]

No, she's very into it.

[A]

Well, is she right or she wrote.

[C]

Well, history will tell you that she's generally right on these kind of things.

[B]

Well, no, wait a second. Is that.

[A]

Is that. Is that husband code? Because that's what we're all supposed to say, or is that a fact? She really does have a good grasp of the numbers.

[C]

No, she really does have a grasp of the numbers.

[A]

All right, I'm going to actually bring in my colleague here because after my quick little line of questioning and your validation of your wife's, A, knowledge of your financial situation, and B, she's got a good track record of giving good financial advice. John, I think this is a lot of fear.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, so give me something you are anxious about that has nothing to do with money.

[C]

Oh, gosh. My girl's future.

[B]

Okay, keep going. Give me two more.

[C]

My health, long term, I'm in good health right now, but I just seen too many people go downhill.

[B]

Give me another thing.

[C]

And he said, not this, but just running out of money, just not having enough.

[B]

Okay, so. So this is the pot recognizing the kettle here. Okay? So I'm talking to you. Forget like that. There's millions of people listening to us. Just. It's you and me sitting down, having nachos. Okay, okay. Almost every time somebody approaches me with a desperate either or decision, that is a sign that they struggle with anxiety in other places in their life. You have boxed yourself into a Do something for fun where I just don't make Anything. And we all starve to death because the apocalypse is going to come hit us at any time. Never mind the fact that I'm a multi, multi millionaire, that my health is good, that my wife loves me enough to stay connected to me and to challenge me when appropriate. I am going to forecast a future potential problem. I'm going to drag it into the present and not even try to solve it. I'm going to worry about about it. Right. Or the other solution you've given yourself is I need to go find something that I don't love, I don't care about. That's going to drive me crazy. But I'm going to make 190 grand. And you've boxed yourself into an either or. And you spend most of your day toggling back and forth that toggling. The nerd word is rumination. You're just spinning up stories and trying to solve them and tell yourself why you can or can't, why you should and why you shouldn't. And rumination never solves anything. It just makes us feel like we're exerting energy to solve a. Towards a problem. It keeps us bus. We never go anywhere. And so what, what I want you to, to, to challenge you on is this a. I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Non Anxious Life. Okay. And this is the assumption that what if your anxiety is right? What if the things you worry about is right? And let me make like be super clear, all of the money could go away. It could. You have set your family up in a position that you are hedged against that happening better than almost anybody Ken and I will talk to in the next two months. You're a multi millionaire in your early 50s. Your health is really dang good. You take care of yourself. You're a good steward of your body. Could you have a heart attack tomorrow?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

But you've done the work to put yourself in a position to where that's, that's statistically unlikely. And I could keep going on and on, but I'm going to give you that book because I want you, I want you to work through it. The second thing I want you to do is I want you to reverse engineer the day you quote, unquote, retire. What do you want that day to feel like?

[C]

I just want it to be confidence and relief, relaxing.

[B]

Okay. That is not going to be found in a data point because you have data points and they're not solving that problem for you.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

It's going to be solved In a life built well on the way, and it's going to be built with you going towards something. Why wouldn't. Why, why not consider doing something that you love? And that makes 80 grand. 110 grand.

[A]

Yeah. How many months have you been laid off?

[C]

Just over five.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So getting paid through June, basically, that's

[A]

what I was wondering. So I'm going to throw something out. I actually want John's opinion on this. I was listening.

[B]

I talked about this before.

[A]

Yeah. I would love for you to try your wife's plan for three months. So when. June, when that last severance check cashes, whatever that next month is. So you don't have any income. So maybe it's July. Who knows? But I want you to go three months without any income. Ooh, three months. I know. And John may disagree with you, but let me play this out. Your wife is tuned in. Go 60 days. I don't care. It's not a magical formula I'm dropping here. But go enough time where you're. Where you're able to actually see what life is like with your wife's suggestion and do everything that John said, but force yourself to go. I'm going to take at least three months or two months, and I'm not going to have any income. And let's just see how we do.

[B]

And I'm going to add.

[A]

What is life like?

[B]

I'm going to add another thing to it. I want you to spend those two months. Because here's the other thing I think you're missing. Ken and I have talked about this at length over the. Over the years. Getting laid off, your body experiences that as a death.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

The loss, the grief attached to that loss is significant because somebody somewhere in a room said, I don't want you or need you here anymore. And that hurts, man. Right.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's existential. Who am I without this title? Who am I when I'm not this job, When I'm not in this role? Who am I going to be now? And is this going to. Could this happen again? The answer is yes. And you start spinning up stories and you get stuck. So in addition to pressure testing, is my wife right? Also, I want you to begin to fill your day up with things that you. That bring you purpose. Who are you going to help? So that's you not just sitting at home scanning the Internet, watching news or scrolling on your phone. That is you committing to. I'm going to volunteer for three different organizations in my community. I'm going to take a class to get this other certification. You know what? I hate coding. I hate it. I'm going to say it out loud. I hate coding. I'm going to go fill in the blank and begin finding, doing, not thinking about doing things. Action or emotions often follow action. Go do some things that bring you value and bring you purpose. And man, you're going to come come out of this on the other side with a whole, with a with a clear path to move forward.

[C]

Sam. Foreign.

[A]

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[B]

All right. Today's question comes from Chase in Indiana. I oh, man. This starts out, I mean, he doesn't mess around. I don't want to do it, but I'm about to divorce my wife due to financial infidelity. We have amazing kids and she is my rock. But she has a major spending problem. This is the second time she has gone into debt and kept me in the dark until the creditors come close calling. I'm devastated and want to take the easy way out. But even if we get separated, she would still need financial help. I am 45 and she is 48. Can you give me. Sorry, brother. Can you give me some guidance on how to help her re engineer her mind about money and finance so she can be the amazing wife I know she can be. Oh, boy.

[A]

Except it's not about her mind.

[B]

Yeah, you man. What do you think, Ken?

[A]

Well, this is your lane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you got a lot of wisdom.

[A]

I'm just playing one on TV at the moment.

[B]

You got a lot of wisdom.

[A]

I'm gonna say with everything in my being. Fight the urge to divorce her. I would just fight until there is absolutely no way you can fight. I don't think divorce is the answer. I think she's got some deep emotional problems and I think she needs some therapy. She needs her husband to sit with her and all of that. So would tell him financial infidelity, I get it. But with the kids, I just. I've read too much about divorce. I know enough to get me in trouble and I know enough to say that it's just never an option until it's the only option.

[B]

Yeah. And. And Chase, I mean, this is. This has rocked your world and totally understand. You're. You're looking at two husbands right here. If this happened a second time, I mean, it's. It's devastating. Right. Um, but I want you to begin to be very honest. She is not your rock. And when you keep saying she's this and she's this, but also this, it becomes destabilizing in your own mind. So I want you to be honest about. I don't trust my wife. And my wife has not shown that she is willing to delay gratification, to deal with some of the demons that are haunting her that she's choosing to try to keep at bay with spending or with hiding or with secrets or whatever. And so we're going to be very honest about our place in this marriage. We're going to choose reality when it comes to our marriage. What is the state of things? The state of things is if we're really, really honest. Almost never is somebody, quote, unquote, a rock in every facet, except they just go into crippling debt. Creditors called and they hide it from us and they lie about it. That's almost never the case. Very, very rarely. Occasionally it is, but almost never it is. So we're going to be honest about the state of things. Things. And you're going to sit down with her and you're going to give her a road map to what reestablishing trust would look like. And you're going to be honest about your. The precariousness of your situation. And so for a season, I would and Ken, push back on this. I would say I am going to open a checking account that is just for us and the kids. I am going to ask you to. To freeze your credit account and give me the code to it so that you cannot borrow money. I am going going to ask that because this is the only way I'm going to feel safe for the next 30, 60, 90 days. And then we're going to revisit it. And I'm going to ask that you go see somebody because you clearly are struggling with things way under the surface. And like, this isn't about re. Engineering her mind about money and finance. This is. That is just the. That's the blinking red light over the problem. The problem is much deeper and we're going to get to the root of. Where else is she not being fully honest with you? Where else is she not allowing herself to be seen and known? Where else are you Not a safe place for her to land. And so she feels like she has to kind of work around you because you have your own opinions and your own judgments, etc. We're going to peel this hang all the way back to the bedrock here, and we're going to be honest about the state of our marriage. And then we're going to choose, and both of you have to be in on this. We're going to rebuild this thing brick by brick to this thing that we want it to be. And the beauty of it is, if y' all have both chosen or one of y' all has chosen to blow the thing up, you both can choose to rebuild it. It's the same choice, just on the different side of the ledger here. Um, but this is. If you try to solve this with financial. With numbers, with spending habits. That's not the issue here yet. You'll get there, but that's not the problem here. It's much deeper than that.

[A]

Yeah, appreciate the question, man. We're rooting for you. Let's go now back to the phones. Andrew's joining us in Jackson, Mississippi. Andrew, how can we help?

[C]

Hey, how's it going, gentlemen? Basically got some car debt, got some student loan debt. Not really unexpected baby on the way, but we just got pregnant a lot sooner than I expected. And just curious, if I sell a truck that I have, get a beater and start pouring it into the student loan debt or just pay off the truck because it's newer.

[A]

When's the baby due?

[C]

Baby is due. So we're 12 weeks. Baby's due around end of September.

[A]

Okay, end of September. How much debt do you have, walker?

[C]

So the debt, 50 grand in car loan, 100 grand in student loan, and then we have our house.

[A]

Okay, so we'll take the house off the table right now. Are you familiar with our baby steps?

[C]

Somewhat.

[A]

Okay, so the 50 grand in the car, what's the car? What is it? It's a truck. And what's it worth if you were to private sell today?

[C]

Probably 60.

[A]

Yes, yes. We sell that truck immediately.

[B]

Yesterday. Yesterday.

[A]

Immediately.

[C]

Even if I can pay it off in two months. Two more months?

[B]

Yeah. What do you make?

[A]

Two more months. Whoa, you buried the lead.

[B]

What do you make?

[C]

So we pull in about 220 after taxes.

[A]

Okay, well, that would have been nice to know.

[B]

Yeah. Lead with that next time. Hey, we're rich and we're having a baby, and I'm terrified. Lead with that. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Pay off the truck in two months. Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And. And then that leaves the 100k in student loans and Is that right?

[C]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah. That one's going to take longer. And so, you know, we. We tell people it's okay to pause baby step two, which is paying off debt, smallest to largest, to save up money. You know, we're going to get in stock mode, right? We stock cash just to make sure. And then, by the way, what we're doing here is, is we want to look at what our deductible is, right? And we want to make sure we got plenty of cash, that we don't have any surprises. And then we plan as well as we can for baby, right? And. And then once baby's here, then it's that massive income knocking off the student loan. All right, so that's baby step two.

[C]

Income reduces after baby because my wife is, you know, she'll get her. Her little bit for baby leave, and she says she'll start working again after X amount of months.

[B]

The way you just said that.

[C]

She will not.

[B]

Yeah. You don't believe her? No.

[C]

She's gonna stay home with baby, and she gonna be like, yeah, I'm good.

[B]

How much do you. On your house?

[C]

250.

[B]

Okay, so what if she. If she leaves the workforce for good? What's that going to reduce your household income?

[C]

It's going to go down to about 185.

[A]

Yeah. What. What needs to happen for you to make more money?

[C]

I'm actually working on getting a raise. So that's. That's in the work.

[A]

What would that take you to?

[C]

It could take us back up to what we were making before.

[A]

So the answer is you don't have to sell the truck. But what worries me is that you get off this call and then you talk yourself into keeping the truck. So part of me wants to go sell it. Take your medicine, you know, and buy a $10,000 truck, you know, but you don't have to.

[C]

I want to sell it. But the wife is like, it's a good truck. It's newer. It's got a great warranty. She's the one trying to buy.

[A]

What do you think now, John?

[C]

I'm like, I'll. I'll. I. I don't care.

[B]

Give me. Here's the. She. She's right. And you're right. Okay, so the. The bigger issue to me is y' all make 220 after taxes. Y' all have nine months.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Could. And you. Your house payment's only two. A $250,000 house.

[C]

Yeah. Okay, maybe. Yeah, I.

[B]

Maybe I owe a lot living in

[C]

it for about a year now.

[B]

This is going to sound crazy. This is going to sound nuts. Is there any possible way y' all could squeeze out and just live on 100 grand this year since you have no other expenses?

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

You could. You could live off 75. If y' all will just suck it up for one calendar year, you will pay off your student loans and the dumb truck.

[A]

And for that reason, I'd sell the truck.

[B]

Yeah, I would, too.

[A]

I'd buy a $10,000 truck. And you're going to save all this cash that you would be putting towards the 50,000. I want us holding that cash and put it to the loan. Buy the.

[B]

Yeah. Pay our student loans off and tell

[A]

your wife, hey, babe, appreciate it. Love you. But I don't need to drive this truck. That's what I would do.

[B]

And then save up and buy a truck after the baby's born.

[A]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside John Deloney. I'm Ken Coleman. Thrilled that you're with us. The phone number is 888-255-2225. Kate is up now in Oklahoma City. Kate, how can we help?

[C]

Hi, guys. I would just like to know how I should go about a conversation with my dad asking him to get another job because he's been asking me and my brother for money for, like, bills and groceries.

[A]

What? How long has this been going on?

[C]

Oh, years. I mean, how old is it? He is 62.

[A]

Okay. And is he on his own?

[C]

No, my mom is still around. She was a caretaker for my grandmom. She recently passed away, so she is unemployed right now.

[A]

Okay, and how much money are we talking about in how many years? Well, let me. Let me ask. I'm sorry, let me ask it differently. On the average, ask, how much money is he asking you and your brother for at a time?

[C]

It really varies. Anywhere from, like 20 bucks to a couple thousand.

[A]

Okay. I just am trying to get a range for, you know, how big of a problem he's got going on. And you said years. How many years? Years.

[C]

Yeah. So we had a family business for a long time, and we would work. I've been working since I was like, nine. So kind of since then,

[A]

he's been asking you and your brother for money for 10 years to help pay his bills?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And you've been giving it to him the entire time?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

All right, that. All right, I got to bring in the good doctor here. I set the table, and now you get to clean It. Wow. We got some deep seated issues going on here.

[B]

Yeah. You, You, You. You asked for two things and you can only control one of them. Okay. And so the only thing you can control here is. Is no thank you or thanks for asking. I'm not in a position to give right now.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Or if you want to be, if you. If you're ready to draw a forever boundary, I'm not going to be able to give you, or I'm going to choose not to give you money anymore. And the more honest you can be there, the better.

[A]

Do you still work in the family business with him?

[C]

No. It. We had to sell it. He's in quite a bit of debt, so we had to.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You can't recommend he get a new job because he doesn't think he needs one. Because he doesn't. He has two kids that he's been leeching off of for years. He's gonna have to come to that on his own. And.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I just want to tell you I'm. I'm. As a dad of a daughter sitting next to another dad of. Of another daughter. I want to tell you I'm sorry because no dad should put his daughter in this position.

[C]

Yeah. Thank you.

[B]

You've been carrying him for a long time and that was never your job.

[A]

What's going to happen when you do what John tells you to do? How's dad going to react?

[B]

I can tell you he's going to react like a child, right?

[C]

Yeah. I. I don't know exactly. He definitely asks more from my brother. But

[A]

is your brother fed up with this too?

[C]

He's definitely more lenient on it. He's kind of like, well, mom and daddy money. So I'm gonna give it.

[A]

And see John, that's another dynamic because we're giving Kate this advice. Kate's calling us. But if brother's going to continue to help, this is never going to get any better. So even more so, Kate, do you do what John tells you and you're

[B]

going to be isolated even more? Yeah.

[A]

And the reason I'm bringing that up with John next to me is because I think you need to be prepared for dad. You said you don't know what he's going to do. He's not going to react in a good way. And now he's going to put more pressure on your brother, and brother may come to you and go, what are you doing? I guess, John, I wanted to be prepared for the worst case scenario. Scenario so that we protect Kate.

[B]

I mean, I think Kate's Gonna have to make some choices about. Do you have community? Do you have people you can count on? Do you have someone you can talk to? Because this is going to be an isolating rocky storm to weather.

[C]

Right. I'm actually moving out in April.

[B]

Good. And. And the faster you can establish yourself on your own two feet somewhere else where you've got some more autonomy, then this will definitely reduce Deuce.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But it's. It will be incredibly uncomfortable, disheartening, heartbreaking. And so I'll say it this way. If it takes you giving him money to preserve the relationship, the relationship you want to be there does not exist.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a. It's a predatory relationship. You owe me. I'm your dad.

[C]

I think I keep giving them money because I am just so bad. They don't have money for bills, and I don't want them to.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

You know.

[B]

Okay, I want to walk you through something that I learned from my. My buddy Becky Kennedy. She's a psychologist in New York. Okay. I would have told you in the past, like, you're feeling guilty. Right. And she. She changed the way I think about guilt. She said guilt is a good feeling, feeling that your body experiences when you violate your own values. Right. Guilt is not the feeling you get when you do something that is in alignment with your values and somebody else is uncomfortable or mad or pissed off at what you just did. And you try to grab their feelings and manage them for them. And so is it a violation of your value use to take care of yourself, to make sure you're on your own two feet and to stop funding your dad's behavior?

[C]

Yeah, no, I. I definitely need to. I'm. I'm definitely ready to move out.

[B]

Okay. So when he comes at you, full storm. When your brother comes at you full storm, make a commitment to yourself. And by the way, you.

[C]

You, You.

[B]

You don't just declare this like Michael Scott, like, I declare bankrupt. This is hard and it's painful, and it takes years.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

But make the commitment to yourself. I am not going to try to manage yalls anger, your frustration, your demands, your coercion. I'm not going to try to manage that. I'm going to be in control of me, and I'm going to be compassionate, respectful, honorable. I'm going to always tell the truth. I'm going to be a person of integrity, and I'm going to do what I can do. And at this season, I don't have that kind of money to continue to support you in that way.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And that's hard. And that's like. Ken's right. Man, that is painful. Painful.

[A]

Where's mom at in this?

[B]

Where is she?

[C]

So my mom. So I'm actually moving and the job I have now, she's going to take it over, but it's not going to be for a month.

[A]

What is she going to make?

[C]

20 after taxes? It's going to be about 600amonth. Week.

[A]

Okay. And is. Does Mom. Where's mom at with the way dad is putting the pressure on you and your brother? Is mom just this silent who just lets him do whatever? I mean, what's the deal?

[C]

She. She definitely feels really bad about it. She. She cries to me a lot about it because she's in a really tough position.

[A]

I know she is. And because we have such limited time. I'm digging here, Joe. What can she do to encourage mom to try to step in here?

[B]

I. Again, I don't know that she can get mom to do anything.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

She can say, hey Mom, I just want to let you know as I'm moving out here, I need to establish my finances, my emergency fund. I need to pay off my debts that I have and I need to establish myself. And so I am not going to continue to give you all money for the next, next season. And I know that's going to make dad mad. You and I have talked and I know this whole thing has always made you uncomfortable. Anyway, I just want you to know I'm going to have this conversation with dad when he calls and maybe your mom will say, bless you for having the strength that I wasn't able to exert over the years cuz I've been in this other pressure cooker. Or maybe she'll get mad at you too. Who knows? Who knows? But I would have that level of candor and that level of directness and make it as short as possible.

[C]

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, dang,

[B]

that must have been so hard.

[C]

I could never do that. And I tell them, sure you can. It's a short term sacrifice for a long term gain.

[B]

But do you know what's really hard?

[C]

Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it. Never having the long term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time.

[A]

And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose.

[C]

Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but

[A]

you need the right tools to do it.

[B]

Like our Every Dollar budget app.

[A]

In minutes it'll build You a step

[C]

by step plan that's tailored to your money situation. And every day it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today.

[B]

Short term sacrifice, long term gain.

[C]

Choose the tool to help you get it done fast.

[A]

Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today. All right, so we, we get a lot of of questions, a lot of calls where we're inevitably saying you need more income, right? Yes, every dollar and getting control of your money, knowing where it's going is huge. But most of the time if, if you're struggling, it's not just your expenses, it is also your income. And the reality is, is that we've had a very popular article, it's called 14 Best Work from home jobs you can apply for today. And this is all about increasing your income, right? I need more. I'm in Gaz. And I got to bring some, some more money in. And again, I'm not going to read this word for word. You can click the link in the show notes to get this. But you're looking at things like virtual assistant is on the list, right? A tutor, customer service where again, I'm working at home, which means you can wear those sweats, you know, hey, and you got a laptop, whatever, graphic design, accounting, booktuber, TV teaching, video editing, things of that nature. That's just a few of the list. And again, go to the show notes and get it. This is a very popular [e-mail], 14 best work from home jobs you can apply for today. So the point is that where there's a will, there's a way. And we're actually giving you a list of some very specific things to be looking at that don't require a lot of ramp up time, but can provide real money so that you can get out of debt. So go check it out. Link in the show notes. Josh is up next in Jackson, Mississippi. Josh, how can we help?

[C]

Hey man, I was just wondering. I'm getting married at a month.

[B]

Congrats.

[C]

I'm just. Thank you. Super excited about it. Really excited to not have to pay for this wedding anymore. And just basically me and my fiance, we have what y' all would call bad debt. About $12,000 in credit cards. Most of that went towards, you know, paying for the wedding and then we mostly cash flowed it. I don't have a car note. My fiance has I think $20,000 left on her car and completed baby step one. So far just trying to figure out a. How to navigate the marriage finances and just overall building, you know, something with that. And then my fiance wants to move, like we want to move to Alabama, and she wants to open a nutrition tea business. This.

[A]

A nutrition what tea?

[C]

Like the fit teas.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I think that's a horrible idea. And let me explain, not necessarily the business prospect. So I. I'm having a little bit of fun. I want to do a little misdirection. It's not that her business idea. I don't know anything about fitness tea. Okay. What I am saying is a bad idea is for us to get married and we're going to start a business when we're trying to start a life.

[C]

I. Yeah.

[A]

So I got some red flags now. If you can give me some facts as to why it might be a great idea.

[B]

I think it's not a good idea for other reasons, but go ahead.

[A]

Oh, great. No, add it real quick.

[B]

Hold on.

[A]

I want to get John's take. Why is it. Give me your take on why it's a bad idea.

[B]

Here's why, brother. You are painting a picture of two people in a month who are about to join, like to. About to anchor into. Into concrete together and say, till death does us part. And y' all are not aligned on how y' all spend money, how y' all earn money, the. The commitment it takes when she's trying to get a business off the ground, how you're going to carry the load at home. This is going to be a 9010 marriage for a while. And that's awesome. In seasons when y' all are both in on that and how y' all are going to come out of like, y' all have to get your values aligned asap.

[A]

Which is by way what I. What I was saying. You're trying to start a life. And the first year of marriage is the hardest year in my opinion, because you're taking two individual lives environments that you're bringing in. And John said it way better than me. I'm in complete agreement. But that's why this is a bad idea, not her actual business idea.

[B]

So here's what this looks like in. In real time, brother. This is y' all sitting down and saying, as a married couple, how do we value work? How do we, like, what are our values around how we're going to spend money, how we're going to save money is one of yalls core values. Together we will never be owned by a bank, by a car dealership, by a government entity when it comes to debt. Cool. We're going to, we're going to, we're going to anchor into that one. And that's going to decide how quickly y' all pay off your debts. That's going to decide how quick, how small your wedding is relative to how big y' all actually want wanted it to be. It's going to decide, okay, we're going to start this tea business, but we're going to wait three years because we're going to start it with cash. We're not going to start it with an SBA loan and put that on top of the car payments, on top of the student loans, top of the credit cards, just as we're getting out of our marriage. You get what I'm saying?

[C]

Yeah, no, and we had a conversation about that. She has friends that have opened these businesses before and they all have taken out SBA loans and we kind of had a hard conversation about it. I told her that we would need to, if it was even a possibility to cash flow that business. Like there's no point but down the line.

[A]

So what she needs to hear from you is I think this is a fun thing, but let's, as we're engaged and I want John to add to this or edit what I'm about to say, but the way I would approach this, because I am in no way saying that you say to her what I say said to you. Okay, I want to be clear, but I do think you have to say I think we should discuss big things in our marriage that we think are down the line. Let her throw out some things kids or we want to live part time in Costa Rica for one year, whatever these big fun things are that I think it's great for, for engaged couples to talk through. But if, if we could get that to that list of that's down the line and, and, and try to encourage her that I don't know that's the best move. We're about ready to get married. We're going to move somewhere else, John. And, and so I, I, I want to set him up for a win here because I don't want her to hear no, I rather her hear, I don't think that this is the best time. So a, not yet.

[B]

Well, and, and it's just the way you get around it is not get around it, but the way you go right through it is let's talk first principles first. Who are we, are we going to be a couple that borrows money? And that's when you tell her I don't feel safe when I, when I owe somebody, somebody money and I'm uncomfortable. And she might say it. Let me tell you the truth. In my house, like, this may be a shocker for Ramsay fans. A mortgage keeps. I can't sleep if I have, if I owe somebody money, it drives me insane. Literally. I've tracked my sleep. It makes me crazy.

[A]

You sure it's not the gummy bears?

[B]

It's that too. Okay, it, but my wife, dude, a mortgage doesn't bother her at all, not even a little bit. But on this issue, it's such a big deal to me that she says, I love him more than I love my little pet project or that I love my little whatever. And so I'm all in with him. But let's make a plan. You get what I'm saying? And she is into gardening. She's got these big, elaborate, amazing gardens. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not a big, I'm not a gardener. But I love the, the fact that she loves this stuff so much. And so I'm like, hey, how can we make this thing happen? How can I support you? How can I go build fencing for you? And so that's what I'm talking about. Go to first principles. Who are we going to be when it comes to sex? Who is, who are we going to be when it comes to money? When we have a discussion, a debate, a disagreement on how many kids we want to have, how. Who are we going to be in that disagreement? You get what I'm saying? And that's my fear for you guys is, has she ever run a business before?

[C]

No.

[B]

Okay. Has she ever hired employees?

[C]

No.

[B]

Has she ever navigated building leases? Okay. That is an extraordinary amount of pressure to drop on a brand new marriage that's already underwater financially.

[A]

And by the way, she needs to go work. She needs to go work for somebody that's in that space and get a free education on how to run a

[C]

business like she, she has.

[A]

Okay, well then take notes.

[C]

So the person who is, you know, sponsoring her to do you have to get sponsored through this company to do it?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Is it AA pyramids?

[B]

Oh, it sounds like a pyramid.

[A]

Yeah, it kind of does. Yeah. I, I, I, I think we have hopefully given you the why and the how here.

[B]

Like Ken said. I want to reiterate what he said because it was very wise. If you go at her and you say, we're not doing this business, this is dumb. We shouldn't boom World War three because y' all are going to be fighting proxy wars and you're not going to deal with the real issues. The real issues are you using I statements I feel I'm scared of, I'm uncomfortable with. Will you join me in this discomfort? That's how you move forward. Not with you statements, but with I statements.

[A]

Hey, guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey, Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey Prince principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. All right, this is always fun when we get a baby steps millionaire who calls in to share their story. And right now we've got Amy, who's on the line in Indianapolis. Amy, congratulations on being a baby step millionaire.

[C]

Oh, thanks, John and Ken. I appreciate that.

[A]

Well, let's get the numbers here. What is your net worth?

[C]

1.6.

[A]

1.6. That's not shabby. Give us the mix.

[C]

About 900,000 in mutual funds, about 100,000 in IRA, about 500,000 on my house, a couple of cars, and some money in the bank.

[A]

I love that. Did you use a investment pro to help you on this journey?

[C]

You know, actually, I did not. Well, I kind of did. I had a friend who was really, really good with money, so he kind of guided me. But now that I'm actually there, my house is paid off. I intend to go that route in the future.

[A]

That's fantastic.

[C]

Help me build more wealth.

[A]

Now, I don't normally ask a lady her age, but this is part of the story. So if you'll forgive me. How old are you?

[B]

You sound 26. Well, that's, I'm out here right now.

[C]

I'm double nickels.

[A]

55. I've not heard that one before, but I'm quick. I am quick.

[B]

Over here you are.

[A]

Okay, 55. All right. And give us, give us a range of your income, the lowest income you've ever made. And then give us the most amount of, of income.

[C]

The lowest was 12,5. And that was 38 years ago. And I doubled that salary the first year on commission, so you can do the math there. And then my top salary is 114. So not bad, but not, not huge.

[A]

What do you do?

[C]

I am assistance trainer for an insurance company.

[A]

Nice. And have you been in insurance that your entire career, or is it something you moved into later? Okay, gotcha. Yeah.

[C]

38 years.

[A]

Did you get a degree? College. College degree.

[C]

You know, I did get a degree. However, I didn't do it until I was 44.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Work. Decided. Decided. I decided that I wanted it for me.

[A]

Work.

[C]

So they pay for as long as I maintain a certain gpa. So I did it for me. It did not increase my salary. It didn't change my job. I just did it because I didn't do it when I was younger. And I felt like, not that you have to have a degree, but for me, I didn't do well in high school, and I always thought I was a little not there in the brain. So I thought, you know what? I'm going to just try it for myself. Just. Just to prove to myself that I can do it.

[A]

Me.

[C]

And I did.

[A]

Amy, you just described how I feel on a regular basis. I say to myself, I don't think I'm there in the brain. Yeah, it happens to me on a regular basis.

[B]

That's why I went to grass so long. It's because I was trying to prove, like, to my high school self, like, yeah, I. I'm with you. I'm tracking. I'm proud of you. That's awesome. Good for you.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Okay, let's talk about when it clicked for you. When did it click for you? That a. You should make this pursuit and what was the key to getting where you are today? Two part question.

[C]

All right. Part one was, I remember this very clearly. I was 29 years old. I bought my first house. I had that didn't make a lot of money. I made enough to buy the house. But, you know, therefore. And I thought, you know what? I am paying all this money money on these credit cards, and it's dumb. So I said, never no more. So I created a plan. It really happened to be the Dave Ramsey plan. I just didn't know Dave Ramsey at the time, right. But I put all my credit cards on a spreadsheet in some other whatever system. I would use Dave Ramsey today. And, you know, they told me pretty much his plan. So I did it, got out of debt and said, never, ever again.

[A]

Wow. So what is the key to? I imagine there are a lot of young ladies listening to this, and maybe they're early in their career, not making a ton of money. What would you say to them if you could have coffee with them to get to where you are today? What do they need to do.

[C]

You got to be smart with your money. For me it was. I had to have goals. I plan them out and I had to stick to them. I couldn't buy the shoes, I couldn't buy the comforters. You know, I couldn't buy the things that made you feel better because I looked at the spreadsheet and went, yes. And then when I went to pay my house off, the current house that I have now, I put a pad of paper on my refrigerator and I had the balance. And every time I made a payment and an extra payment, I wrote it on there. So every day when I opened the refrigerator, I was like, I'm that much closer.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And then I just did it.

[A]

I love it. And you mentioned car or did I hear you say cars earlier?

[C]

I have two cars.

[A]

Tell us about those. You millionaire?

[C]

Yeah, I got a 19 Subaru and a 2007 Chevy Silverado. So nothing fancy.

[B]

See, that's what runs on oat milk and granola. That's awesome.

[C]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

I love it.

[C]

Well, this is why the Chevy Silverado, new, okay, that was probably dumb, but I did and the Subaru was a company car. And when they got rid of my company car, I said, oh, I kind of like those cars. So I just paid cash for it.

[A]

Yeah, a 2019.

[B]

So it's a great car.

[A]

Yeah, it's a fantastic car. Well, we really, really appreciate you, Amy. This is, it's always fun for us to hear from baby steps millionaires. You've done it. You gave some great advice. So thanks for being with us. Love that. Let's go to Edgar, who's in our backyard of Nashville, Tennessee. Edgar, how can we help?

[C]

Yeah, what's going on, you guys?

[B]

What's up? How we doing?

[A]

Just trying to help America, Edgar. And you're up next.

[C]

All right, well, I. It's, it's. Thank you guys for having me.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

I was looking to see if you guys have any advice on what I should do right now with my financial situation that I've got going on. And I. Everything.

[B]

All right? Set us up. What is it? What's going on? All right.

[C]

I work as a, as a janitor in elementary school and I work at a McDonald's as well. I get paid $14 an hour weekly at the elementary school and I get paid 13 exactly at the McDonald's but it's bi weekly pay, so I make about 16, $17 a month. I have $900 left in debt. I took out a payday advance and I owe $350 on that. And I owe my mom about $550. And then I'm trying to know what I should do because I got a really good job offer to boost my annual income from $12,000 to 80 to 100,000 thousand.

[A]

Okay, why are we, why are we talking about that?

[B]

Yeah, do that job.

[A]

What. What's the status of that?

[C]

It's. I'd be helping people. Like, I'd be helping people set up money for retirement accounts and investing and everything.

[A]

No, no, no, I. I appreciate that, but what is the status of taking that job and starting that job?

[C]

Oh, I have to pay about $400 for the. I have to pay 200 to finish getting my license, and then I have to pay the classes and everything.

[A]

So I'll be finding $400.

[B]

Well, is it. Is this 80 to 100,000? Is this like, we're gonna give you the leads and if you just close them. Is this like a fancy Tupperware sales thing?

[C]

They, they give. They. So there's gonna be somebody who promotes it and then there's gonna be me who will take the call and I'll be like, if you want to put 500amonth in here, here, I'll set you up for that right now.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right, hold on.

[A]

I gotta tell you, I thought you were talking about you were going to get into a money management where it's actual real, like a smartvestor pro. And they, they kind of seed you your first year or two until you bring in the accounts. What I'm hearing sounds really shady.

[B]

Yeah, it's a marketing thing. Don't do this, don't do that.

[A]

So let's talk about how we bring, huh?

[B]

No, no, no, no. You're going to find yourself out a whole bunch of money for this coursework. You're going to keep having to pay courses. You're not going to get the clients that you think.

[A]

No one's going to say yes to this because John and I sniffed sketch on this in one sentence when you describe the work. So no one's going to buy that from you. We have limited time with you. Number one, you need to be on every dollar and you don't have any money. So I'm going to give you every dollar because you need to begin with just a little bit amount of money you've got. You need to get a budget. Now the good news is you're almost out of debt. Okay. But you need to be working a much better paying job. How old are you?

[C]

I just turned 20 recently.

[A]

Okay, great. News.

[B]

Awesome, man.

[A]

You go work at a big box store, a Home Depot, a Lowe's, a Walmart, like let's go find something that's in that twenty dollar an hour range. Maybe he's got some benefits. I don't care if you're working at a coffee shop that pays well. You got to get on your feet and you have. The good news is you have very little debt. The bad news is you have no money either. And I'm not sure you know how to manage money. So what I want you to do is hold on the line and let's get you in every dollar. This is way more than a budgeting app. It's like having John and I in your phone. Coaching. It's got coaching in there. It's not just getting you started on a budget, which you need to do. And I also want to give you total money makeover so you can see the long term picture of how the baby steps play out for a young man like you to where you're a multimillionaire and you're not scams and you're

[B]

not afraid of hard work, which I love. You just got to have the right plan.

[A]

Hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft, protection and more. And when you're ready to get the

[B]

coverage you need, you can connect with

[A]

a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to ramseysolutions.com insurance ramseysolutions insurance. Our scripture of the day is Proverbs 28:19. Whoever works his land will have plenty of bread, but he who follows worthless pursuits will have plenty of poverty. And our quote of the day from Henry Ford. Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it by the way. I want to point out that that's a great example of back in the day you could insult somebody and they never even knew it. And that's one of those things, right? You could see Henry Ford, he was throwing some sarcasm out. But you read it it in today's context and it sounds like this deep quote when what he's really saying is there are a bunch of morons out there because nobody knows how to Think.

[B]

But now all of our leaders talk like elementary school kids, and they're like, you're dumb, you're dummy. And you're right. You don't have.

[A]

You don't have.

[B]

Elevated.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Elevated.

[A]

Dialogue leads to some benefits, and one is insulting somebody right to their face, and they have no idea what you've just done. It's really, really fun. Hey, that should. That's a bit too.

[B]

That is. I like it.

[A]

Will is up in Toronto, Ontario. Will, how can we help you?

[C]

Hi, how's it going?

[A]

Good. What's going on today?

[C]

I have a Christian values question related to lending money at interest. So personally, I have a fair bit of money in private lending I'm lending out. And I've. I felt really good about it until recently, actually. This morning in particular, I was reading Ezekiel, chapter 8:18, which appears to state that lending out interest, especially to a brother in the faith, is an abomination to God. And there was. Yeah. Just wondering if. Is there any misunderstanding or should we as Christians not be lending out interest?

[A]

Read that verse one more time, slower, so that I can hear. I want to make sure I heard it correctly.

[C]

Sure. There's. There's kind of a group of five verses if you'd like me to read.

[A]

No, no, no, no. I'm sorry. We don't need a Bible study. I want to make sure I. You said. Did you say that there's a Scripture verse or. Multiple times in Ezekiel, it says to lend money to a Christian brother is an abomination. Did I hear that right?

[C]

Essentially, yes.

[A]

Well, if you take the Bible as the literal word of God, and I think you probably do, then you don't need my opinion on it. I think there was not a lot of error in that sentence. If it's an abomination. You know, again, I'm not a theologian and I'm also not going to. To ever publicly interpret Scripture. But, you know, Dave quotes scripture all the time with the borrowers. Slave. The borrower is slave to the lender. You've got a pretty strong statement in Ezekiel about an abomination. So what do you think?

[C]

Well, and see, that's the thing is I have my opinions, which I can read out. There's some nuances to it. I was more curious if you guys had ever posed that question before. I've searched up Ramsey in relation to this question. I can't see him saying anything publicly on it. I can't see anyone saying anything publicly on it.

[B]

Well, actually, I just addressed that. Yeah, Dave speaks to it. We all Do. And here's the deal. I don't loan money to friends.

[A]

Yeah. We always tell people never to do it. But do. You framed it. So I want to go back. You framed it. You said, as a Christian, and you're coming at us with that. And you, you cited scripture. And so this is one of those situations where you answered your own question. In my opinion. That's what I'm getting at. Like it's. You said, as a Christian, what should I do? And you said, well, here's what scripture says. So I think you answered your own question. So your opinion is not what you asked. But to John's point, we always tell people, never lend any money to anybody. Yeah.

[B]

If you want to help your friends out, help them out. You're going to help your family out. Help them. Him out.

[C]

Okay. I was wondering, at a Christian, from a Christian values perspective, should a Christian lend money? Let's say he doesn't know the man. Let's say he doesn't know the woman, whoever, whomever it is, to whom he's lending. And, and if you guys have never looked into this, that's totally fine.

[A]

No, no, we have. You don't have us on a technicality. So I'll say this one more time. Time. Scripture says the borrower is slave to the lender. And then Ezekiel's got the Christian context between Christians. But then there's the other thing, which is, should you ever put someone at your service, put them in financial slavery? I think we all know the answer to that. But will we also know that I think you think it's okay? And, and, and I do know this about humans. They're going to do what they want to do. But you call. Called us, and you answered your own question on the first one. And John answered your caveat. So thanks for listening. Josh is up next. Harrisburg is where he is. Josh, how can we help?

[C]

Hi, I just have a question about, like, a job change kind of situation that I've got going on.

[B]

You called the best guy in America, Ken Coleman, to answer that question.

[C]

When I heard him on the show, I was like, man, that's perfect.

[A]

Well, geez, the pressure right now is unbearable. But I'll do what I can. What? What's going on?

[C]

So I currently work as a mechanic at a local shop. The money's not bad. The people I work for are absolutely fantastic, and it's a guaranteed job.

[A]

Okay, how much money?

[C]

Well, my situation.

[A]

What do you make?

[C]

They pay me 22 an hour.

[A]

Okay, 22 an hour. And we like the People, what's the other one?

[C]

So my other one, I have two other options. There is another local shop that is offering 25 an hour but it would be less hours per week. I currently work 50, they work 40. And then my third one is in the maintenance department of a big corporation where they would start at 22 and then after about three months move to upwards of 27.

[A]

Okay, which way are you leaning? And let's, let's so we're on the same page. One is number one is where you are 22 an hour and you really like the people. Two is 25 an hour but less hours. Three is big corporate with more money. Which one are you leaning to? Before you called

[C]

the bigger place just because room for advancement. The other, the second local shop that is offering me this job. Like I feel like I'd be in the same situation I am now where there's not a lot of room for advancement and I'm going to plateau.

[A]

Number three with an asterisk is my vote. I want John to weigh into number three with but the asterisk for me is I want to do some homework. I want to see what customer reviews are of this place and since it's big corporate they'll be online. I want to ask around who has worked there? Do I know anybody that's ever had their job? I mean their car service there. How do they treat customers? Because how they treat their customers is how they're going to treat the people that work for them. So let's just make sure that it's not this awful environment and if it's not an awful environment environment and they treat people with a modicum of respect and they got a good reputation. Yeah, I go 27 an hour with room to grow. That would be for me. I want to bring John in too though.

[B]

I, I, I have a unhealthy built in bias which is I want to add value to a smaller company that I trust that let me put it this way. Let me take. I, I have a bias against people running to corporate because it feels safe, especially initially. It also is can get very unsafe risk real fast if Q4 numbers aren't going to make it and they got to lay off half the, the, the department in whatever department they need to pick to make their final number for

[A]

the year can always go back to the local place.

[B]

That's true, that's true.

[A]

I but what's your vote? One, two or three? I think I know, I think I hear you saying number one, stay My,

[B]

my vote is go where you trust the leadership period.

[C]

Right. And my kind of second question of that is the applications for the starter, like three month apprenticeship period type deal at the corporate place don't come out for another month or so. And I just got an email from shop number two where it's like, hey, can, can we call you about this? And I just, I want to know like, especially. And like it's not guaranteed, like, and you know, I have two basically guaranteed options. I'm just not, I want to know exactly what like a wise.

[B]

Nothing's guaranteed, nothing is. But let's back out of this, this for a second. You're, you're desperately scared that you're going to make the wrong choice. I want to flip the whole situation around on you. You have three offers and one of those came today. They're trying to get, they're knocking on their door to get you. If you pick wrong, you walk into a situation that you feel good about and it's, it sucks.

[A]

Trust me.

[B]

Put your name back out on the market and you'll get picked up the following week.

[A]

You're too talented, you're in a good industry. People need good mechanics. And that's why again, I appreciate John's point of view, but I want you to have upward mobility. We humans crave progress.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And sometimes we just crave the opportunity for progress. And I, and, and again, that's why I'm taking the corporate thing. I think it, I think it positions you well for something else. And that's the question we don't have time to get to. But I'm going to challenge you with this. Where do you want, want to be 15, 20 years from now with this mechanical skill? And does the corporate job position you to get there? I think you got to look at everything, but don't overthink it. You know what I mean, young guy? I'm going to take the money as long as I'm not treated, you know, like a jerk. Hey, remember this, folks? There's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus

[C]

Sa.