“I’m $147k In Debt And Only Make $1,500 A Month”

Summary

The Ramsey Show Podcast Summary

Episode: “I’m $147k In Debt And Only Make $1,500 A Month”
Date: November 20, 2025
Hosts: Rachel Cruze, Jade Warshaw (occasionally Dave Ramsey joins)
Podcast: The Ramsey Show (Ramsey Network)

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Episode Overview

This episode showcases real-life callers who face a spectrum of financial challenges, from crushing debt and low income to navigating marriage and money, windfalls, retirement concerns, and success stories about becoming debt free. Hosts Rachel Cruze and Jade Warshaw guide listeners through practical steps to tackle money problems, emphasizing accountability, teamwork in families, and the basic Ramsey principles: budgeting, increasing income, living below your means, and eschewing debt.

The emotional realities of making radical financial changes under stress is a running theme. Listeners are reminded that, regardless of life circumstances, there is hope and a path toward financial freedom through intentional living.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Caller: Miguel – $147k in Debt, Earns $1,500/mo

(Start: 00:13)

• Miguel owns a merchandise printing business, working 50–60 hours/week but only nets $1,500/month.
• He considers selling the business (est. value: $30,000) to address $147,000 debt (mostly personal, $8k business).
• Hosts urge Miguel NOT to make the printing business his sole income source—it’s a “side hustle” level job at those earnings, not sustainable full-time.
• Recommendations:
  • Get full-time employment: Use the business as a side gig.
  • Reduce overhead: Consider moving out of the downtown location and going “order-only” from a smaller space.
  • Set a timeline (6-9 months): Try to grow the business while working another job; reevaluate and sell equipment if needed.
  • Avoid further debt, and avoid making life-changing decisions in a panic.
• Quote (Jade Warshaw, 03:29):
  “You’re not on a living wage right now. ... This eats like a part-time side hustle when we look at the income that it’s bringing.”

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2. Caller: Cody – Medical Debt & Marriage Tension

(10:41)

• Cody and his wife, with four young kids, face $35,000 in medical debt (plus $7,000 credit card debt) after health crises.
• The marriage is strained by the wife’s spending habits as income increases.
• The couple previously had $20,000 in savings (from a house sale) but now only $5,000 remains.
• Insight:
  • Cody is handling finances separately, “feeding” his wife money for groceries; host calls this “a red flag.”
  • Need for joint budgeting and collective conversations.
  • Emotional root causes—maybe tied to wife’s history or change of role—should be explored.
• Quote (Rachel Cruze, 16:30):
  “You’re not her dad. ... You need to come to her and say, ‘I’m freaking out over here, will you please sit down with me?’ Make it about you and what you want for the outcome to be, which is being on the same page.”

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3. Caller: Beto – 17 Years Old, First Car Regret

(23:12)

• Beto, 17, bought an $8,000 Honda Accord, owes $400/month, but faces $700/month insurance bill due to age.
• Works full time at MMA gym, recently got a new $20/hr job at an orthopedic clinic.
• Wants to start a car detailing side business, but only has $1,000 in savings.
• Advice:
  • Double up work temporarily to cover car/insurance.
  • Don’t start the detailing business until car is paid off and he’s financially stable.
  • Price out the business thoroughly first.
  • Stay out of debt; learn this lesson now while the stakes are lower.
• Quote (Rachel Cruze, 24:04):
  “You’re a smart, hard-working guy and I think you’re going to do fantastic. But I’m kind of glad you’re getting a taste of [the weight of debt] at $8,000 for a stupid car loan instead of a $40,000 business loan.”

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4. Caller: Ian – 20, $23k/Month Profit TikTok Shop, Should He Do ‘Semester at Sea’?

(34:23)

• Brilliant 20-year-old with lucrative affiliate marketing gig ($23k/month profit, $180k sales in a month).
• Considering pausing his business for a once-in-a-lifetime Semester at Sea program (free via scholarship).
• Worries about losing business momentum vs. life experience.
• Hosts’ consensus:
  GO on Semester at Sea! “Affiliate marketing’s not going anywhere.” Money can be earned later, but the experience window is unique at this age.
• Quote (Jade Warshaw, 37:56):
  “You’re going to have to convince me not to go, because I am—this is a once-in-a-lifetime.”

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5. Caller: Sonya – Nearing Retirement, Multiple Properties

(39:52)

• Sonya, about to retire, sits on 5 properties (3 rental, 1 for brother, plus primary), $1.3M in real estate, $500k in retirement accounts, $130k cash.
• Asks if she should sell a paid-for rental to pay off her primary.
• Hosts: Absolutely—live completely debt-free.
  She’s a “baby steps millionaire”—incredible job!

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6. Caller: Gabriel – 72-Year-Old Widow Mother Facing Shortfall

(44:16)

• Gabriel’s mother has $1.1M house nearly paid off but little to no retirement, living on Social Security.
• Relies on children to cover ongoing expenses.
• Discussion:
  • Emotionally tough, but math is clear: She needs to sell the house, buy a modest condo, invest remainder for income.
  • Siblings need to unite on a plan; if not, they’d continue to subsidize her indefinitely.
• Quote (Jade Warshaw, 50:12):
  “The math is not emotional. She doesn’t have any money...and she’s healthy. She has a lot of years ahead!”

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7. Caller: Alex – Debt-Free, Wants Tiny Home, No Credit Score

(54:48)

• 28-year-old, debt-free, wants to buy a $40–50k tiny home for “pseudo-independence” (on parents’ property); doesn’t qualify for a mortgage due to no credit and the house size.
• Advice: Wait, save up, and pay cash.
  Don’t take out a personal loan for a depreciating asset with no resale.

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8. Caller: Elijah – 22, Should He Get a Master’s for Small Pay Bump?

(59:50)

• Would get an additional 2% pay bump as a police officer with a master’s, but would require $18,000 in new loans.
• Advice: Not worth the cost. Don’t borrow; $4k/year is negligible compared to lifelong debt.
• Quote (Rachel Cruze, 61:59):
  “The percentage-wise is not big, Elijah. Maybe a $4,000 difference. You could do that in two months with a side gig.”

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9. SUCCESS Story: Christopher – Paid off $63k Debt in 11 Months

(65:20)

• From Rhode Island, went from $72k to $110k/year (with overtime), sold a nearly-new car, slashed expenses.
• Motivation: “Working 70+ hours/week for years isn’t sustainable; I was burnt out.”
• Recommends ruthless action: “What do you have to lose? Only your debt.”
• Sold car, drove a $2,000 used car, “swallowed his pride,” closed 42 credit cards.

Quote (Rachel Cruze, 69:19):
“The ego hates going backwards—it takes a level of humility to say what I was presenting to the world...is actually less, but mathematically better.”
Debt-Free Scream at 74:22

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10. SUCCESS Story: Steve & Tanya – Paid Off $279k Including Mortgage in 6 Years 10 Months

(105:35)

• Remarried couple, “started over in their mid-50s”, focused intently on tithing, budgeting, and laser-discipline.
• Went from $135k to $252k income, paid off ALL debt (house, tractor, consumer loans).
• Chose to “live different” from everyone else: bought thrift clothes, rarely ate out, lived frugally, and talked about money a lot.
• Quote (Dave Ramsey, 112:01): “It’s never too late. You can turn things around. ... My motivation was that I want to retire before I’m 65.”
• Debt-Free Scream at 113:57

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

On Debt, Business, & Living Below Means

• (03:29) Jade Warshaw: “You’re not on a living wage right now. ... This eats like a part-time side hustle when we look at the income that it’s bringing.”
• (16:30) Rachel Cruze: “You’re not her dad. ... You need to come to her and say, ‘I’m freaking out over here, will you please sit down with me?’”
• (24:04) Rachel Cruze (to Beto): “You’re a smart, hard-working guy... But I’m kind of glad you’re getting a taste of [the pain of debt] at $8,000 for a stupid car loan instead of a $40,000 business loan.”

On Marriage & Emotional Roots of Spending

• (19:28) Jade Warshaw: “There’s a reason this is off-putting for her... there’s always something beneath and you’ve got to be a professional detective.”
• (50:12) Jade Warshaw: “The math is not emotional. She doesn’t have any money. ... she has a lot of years ahead of her.”

On Regret & Risk Avoidance

• (37:56) Jade Warshaw: “[Semester at Sea] is kind of a once-in-a-lifetime. All that stuff’s going to be waiting for you.”
• (61:59) Rachel Cruze (to Elijah): “The percentage-wise is not big. ... You could do that in two months with a side gig.”

On Humility & Mindset Shift

• (69:19) Rachel Cruze: “The ego hates going backwards—it takes a level of humility to say what I was presenting to the world...is actually less, but mathematically better.”
• (112:01) Dave Ramsey: “It’s never too late. You can turn things around. ... My motivation was that I want to retire before I’m 65.”

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Other Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Debt-Free Screams:

  • Christopher (74:22): “Three, two, one— I’M DEBT FREE!”
  • Steve & Tanya (113:57): “Three, two, one—WE’RE DEBT FREE!”

• On Experience over Earnings:

  • (36:15) Rachel Cruze: “There’s a specific time in life you can never get back. You’ll learn so much from living the life experience.”

• On Facing Major Life Transitions (divorce, retirement, widowhood):

  • Hosts continually stress the need to run the numbers, get practical help, and swallow pride to do the right thing for your long-term security.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------|-------------| | Miguel – $147k in Debt, Low Income | 00:13 | | Cody – Marriage Financial Stress | 10:41 | | Beto – Car Loan & Exploding Expenses | 23:12 | | Ian – Semester at Sea vs. High Earnings | 34:23 | | Sonya – Should I Sell Property? | 39:52 | | Gabriel – Senior Mom w/ $1M House, No $ | 44:16 | | Alex – Tiny House, No Mortgage | 54:48 | | Elijah – College, Masters, Cost/Benefit | 59:50 | | Christopher – Debt Free Scream | 65:20/74:22 | | Steve & Tanya – Debt Free Story | 105:35/113:57|

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Episode Takeaways

• DO get real with your numbers; DO NOT hide from financial truth.
• If your business is sinking you, get a job and try to run it part-time.
• In couples, budget TOGETHER—finance is not a “parent/child” relationship.
• Don’t let ego or emotion derail smart financial moves: humility wins.
• It’s never too late to change your financial destiny—even after big setbacks or in your 70s.
• Prioritize experiences and relationships over dogged pursuit of wealth; life is about more than balance sheets.
• Celebrate all victories, big and small—and pass along hope that financial freedom is within reach for everyone.

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For more resources, budgeting tools, or to ask your own question, visit www.ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Rachel Cruze]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey network in the Fairwinds Credit union studio, this is the Ramsey show, and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw. And we're answering your questions. So give us a call at 880-882-55225, and we'll be talking about your life, your money, career, relationships, anything and everything. We are here for you. So let's start off in Boston with Miguel. Hi. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going?

[Rachel Cruze]

We're doing well. How can we help today?

[Caller]

So today I wanted to ask. So I have a business, and I'm. I'm contemplating on what I should do next because I'm. I'm also 147,000 in debt, and that's including credit, student loans, and car payment.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I want to know if I should sell a business. Thought I think I get value for and then start fresh and use that lump sum of money to attack, like, the debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Mm. What kind of business are you in?

[Caller]

It's a printing business. So merchandise.

[Jade Warshaw]

What would cause you. What would cause you to sell the business versus using profit from the business to pay down the debt?

[Caller]

I think it's just because I'll collect a lump sum of money and, like, the business right now is kind of, you know, fluctuating. It's up and down, and I'm also alone in it. So it's a lot of my time where I feel like if I could change the.

[Rachel Cruze]

If you didn't have debt, Miguel, would you stay in this business or would you still want out?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

You would stay?

[Caller]

I'll potentially say the business. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Because I look at this as, I mean, because, I mean, well, how much would you sell it for? How much could you get out of it minus all of your liabilities and everything?

[Caller]

About 30 grand.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much are you making off of it every year? How much are you bringing home?

[Caller]

So this is actually like my first year in it, so I know at the end of the year, but roughly after everything, about 1500 bucks a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

1500Amonth. And this. Is this what you do full time or is this kind of like a side business?

[Caller]

It's full time.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I don't know that I would sell it, but I would not have this being my full time job right now because of what it's generating.

[Rachel Cruze]

It feels like, how are you guys living Is your wife work?

[Caller]

No, I'm single.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're single? How are you living off of $1,500 a month?

[Caller]

Just, just making it happen, honestly.

[Jade Warshaw]

But what's your rent though? Like real numbers?

[Caller]

I paid a studio, it's about 850.

[Jade Warshaw]

What else? Car.

[Caller]

Car, yeah. 450 and then 450.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And then utilities, I guess that's put in with the rent and then just. You're scrapping on food. No. Insurance?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you have insurance? Health insurance?

[Caller]

My cards? No, no, no, no health insurance.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So you're not on a, you're not on a living wage right now. And so while I think it's cool to have a printing business, this, it eats like a part time side hustle when we look at the income that it's bringing. So I would be looking as you're working this. I'd be looking for a full time job. What are your, what are your skills? What have you done in the past before you did this business?

[Caller]

I technically just hopped out of school and then save money and then started this business.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. How many hours?

[Caller]

I've never really.

[Rachel Cruze]

How many hours a week are you putting into this?

[Caller]

Lots. By like 50, 60.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So if you did, do you have a buyer out there? Like when you say sell the business, I mean, what's that? Have you, have you looked into that option? Is there a realistic option?

[Caller]

Yeah, I have. Yeah, I have a few options. And that's when I mean the business. I just mean like the equipment and everything.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, I hear what you're saying. Not necess. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Yes. Because that's where the debt is. Right. What did you invest in to do this business? Like what, what equipment do you have?

[Caller]

Oh, I have like dtg, printer, heat presses and a couple other machines. You know, stuff like that.

[Jade Warshaw]

I, I'll. I'll tell you, you've. You haven't been doing the business long, so I don't want to say that there's no future in it. Like, but how much of this debt is business debt? Like how much of it came from the business?

[Caller]

About eight grand.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. That's not bad. Of the 147, that's only eight. I, I'm inclined for you to continue. What I want to know is what's the minimal amount of hours that you can put in it to keep the 1500 so that you can search for something else? Is there any feasible way to do that?

[Caller]

Yeah, it's possible. That's. That's also another plan. I've been thinking of because I have a location in a premier like downtown area. So I was thinking of just getting rid of the. Trying to find something smaller and then kind of just work on. Based off orders I get.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Not so much like being in there.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you have consistent clients that you're reprinting for or is it a one and done?

[Caller]

A little bit of both. But I do have, I've picked up a few clients that are picking up, you know, monthly.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And is most of the hours when you're saying I'm working 50 hours on this, is it most of it in the actual physical printing that you're having to do or is it trying to find new clients and marketing and thinking of creative ways, ways to get your name out there?

[Caller]

A little bit of both. But mainly the printing process. Like printing and being in there.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So I'm with Jade. I mean Miguel, if you have all the equipment and it is bringing in 1500, obviously that's not, that's not sustainable long term for you to live like that. Obviously you know that or you probably wouldn't be calling the show. So it's November. A part of me would give, give it another six months while doing something else. Like you need to go wait tables. I mean you could make more money doing that. I mean something. Right. You need to be doing something. And if you can keep this on the side and actually get some clientele, you could, I don't know. And if you. Yes. Grow it and then maybe that be your full time or you just have these clients and you start making 3,000amonth while also still working to get out of all the credit, all the debt that you talked about at the beginning of this call. So I almost would be tempted just to hold tight for like maybe six months. Give yourself a time period though to say, okay, don't go into any more debt in it. But to say can I pick up any more steam in this business in the next six to nine months and if you can't, then sure, sell the equipment and then that will give you some money. But we just see this, Jade and I both, I think as a great side hustle for right now while you go get a full time job somewhere else.

[Jade Warshaw]

The fact that you've started generating money so quickly from it I think is good. And you have made an investment in some equipment and it feels like worth it to try to play that out a little longer. But I like what Rachel said on putting a timeline on it.

[Rachel Cruze]

So I would do that. Miguel, or just throwing this out there. Kind of the other side of the coin is if you hate it and you're not enjoying it, but you. I think you are liking it in some degree because you said you'd still stay in if you didn't have debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is to find something just full time, sell the stuff and you start a whole new life where you're not feeling like you have to carry a business. Right. Because it does. It's a lot of strain and mental calories to do that. So I don't know, kind of two different options, but either way you got to get a second job. Either way.

[Jade Warshaw]

Agree. Agree. Rich. Yeah, I hope that helps. I know that sometimes when we just tell people, cut your expenses and get a job. I know it feels tough, but truly that is, that is the remedy. You don't have expenses to cut your bare bones as it is. So the next line of defense is getting more income. That's how it works.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And Ken Coleman has a book. Find the book. I'm sorry. Find the work you're wired to do. And we'll send that to you. Because there's a great. It's not a quiz assessment at the back to kind of figure out maybe this will help kind of narrow some possible career paths for you too, Miguel, that you can just kind of brainstorm and think. So holding the line, Christian's gonna pick up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Caller]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And one of my buddies said, hey.

[Caller]

The only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[Rachel Cruze]

And.

[Caller]

Oh, you're telling me.

[Dave Ramsey]

And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost.

[Rachel Cruze]

Somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. They don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly. These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man.

[Caller]

Term life insurance can replace income Pay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

[Caller]

To just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying, I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. Five years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Rachel Cruze]

Up next, we have Cody in Roanoke, Virginia. Hi, Cody. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey.

[Rachel Cruze]

Hi. How are you doing?

[Caller]

I'm hanging in there.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, good. We are too. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Well, so I got a little bit of financial problem as well as marriage problem, and it's becoming a strain more so, you know, with the marriage, because of the financial problem I have. We recently had gotten married about five years ago. My wife and I have had three kids in the last five years, and my youngest kid, he was put in the icu. And long story short, we have a bunch of medical debt. It's about $35,000 worth, and I just can't keep up. I just recently, in the last couple years, we've been on Medicaid, but I just recently got a raise working, which is good, but it's like the more income I come in, the more my wife likes to spend. I'm the saver. I like to say no and, you know, get bills paid. We currently have been taking care of some of the medical bills by credit card, which recently I figured out was a no, no.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So I have seven grand left in medical debt. We have.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, that's it. Of the 35, you only have seven left?

[Caller]

No, no, no, sorry. I have $7,000 of credit card debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it.

[Caller]

And I still have the medical debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it. Okay.

[Caller]

Because we have the three kids we had to purchase. Well, we didn't have to. I guess we could have just kept going, but my wife wanted to purchase a bigger vehicle for traveling and stuff.

[Jade Warshaw]

What'd you spend on that?

[Caller]

That was about $50,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, yeah, you're right. You didn't have to spend that. Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Long story short is that we messed up when we bought the car and now it's kind of a PayCheck to Paycheck RePet.

[Jade Warshaw]

When did you get the $50,000 vehicle? How long have you had it?

[Caller]

It's been about a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, shoot.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so when you talk to her, Cody, about this, how do those conversations go? Are you showing her numbers? Are you telling her that she's spending too much? Yeah. What's the.

[Caller]

It originally came up because I noticed that our savings account was going backwards and instead of paying month to month, I mean I do surf on in there. Can you do that going down the road?

[Rachel Cruze]

Whoa, Cody.

[Caller]

Sorry, sorry. Can you hear me?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I can hear you.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much was in the savings account to start and how much has it dwindled down to?

[Caller]

So originally we had about 20 grand in savings when we switched to because we had sold a house and we had a bunch of money invested into the house and we got a bunch of money back to pay off some debt. Well, we went into the house and had money left over. We had 20 grand in savings.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got it.

[Caller]

And what you doing to it? That I was having to. I've got it down to like 5,000 now.

[Jade Warshaw]

5.

[Rachel Cruze]

And was she using any of this, Cody, for everyday expenses like the grocery store? Like where is she spending it?

[Caller]

So most of it has been when I get a budget because I do all the money because she stays at home and takes care of the kids. Because if we tried to put four kids through daycare, then it would just take an entire paycheck or two almost. So the biggest thing is how do it's going through? Like she's buying clothes for the girls or.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And I can't get her to stop.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, let's, let's, let's. I feel like you're. I feel like you're laying out the problem. I want to get into some real numbers so we can see exactly what. What you're describing looks like. How much money are you bringing home every month?

[Caller]

I'm. I'm bringing home from. So I got two jobs. I just started a recently a landscaping business, which my main job, I'm bringing in about $5,000 a month plus. And that's, you know, what I'm actually bringing home. Not after taxes and then plus my side business. If I get a job or two and only have time to do that on the weekend, roughly two grand at most.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and give me an idea because you said you're a numbers guy. What are you. For your. Because I thought you said three kids, but then you said four. Is it four kids?

[Caller]

My old. Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

My oldest, I have four kids. I have three with my wife currently.

[Jade Warshaw]

Understood. So forgive me. An idea of what you have on the budget to spend on groceries for.

[Caller]

Your budget right now is roughly about $1,200 a month on groceries. By the time I go to groceries, I can't I can't. I've tried to limit it, and it just seems like every time I try to limit it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, that feels right. That feels right. Give me an example of a budget item that she's gone kind of ballistic on. So we can get an idea. Is this $50? Is this $500?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Caller]

So right now we have our joint checking, which is what I feed the money to her through is like, if I tell her $100, it ends up being 150.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Cody, you're not her dad. Okay, so everything that you're saying in this call so far, not saying that she's out of bounds. She could be out of bounds because she spends more than what y' all are making. You can't do that mathematically and be a grownup, right? That's how you live life in debt. And we don't want that. But, I mean, you just said, like, well, she stays home with the kids and I do the money. I put the money in the account that feed her that. I mean, it's a very separate. Even though maybe technically it's together emotionally and plan wise, you guys are on two different tracks. And when you tell her this is. This is how much you have to spend on groceries, to me, that's a red flag in your. Your marriage and communication. And so you. You. You need. I wish you had said. Or the. The goal. I should say this. The goal is for you to say, we planned on spending $1,200 a month, and that was our plan. And so what I think the first step you. You have to do is, is to get her to sit down at the table with you and you guys look at numbers, and together, you guys create a budget. Cody, because I'll be honest, too. You know, I'm sure there's some wrong in there that she has, but also, she is seeing expenses every single day and knowing the reality of what things cost because she's the one buying them. And you don't. I get. I'm not saying that she's justified in it, but you actually may learn something in sitting down with her and hearing what she has to say. To say, oh, wow, I didn't realize that sports uniforms cost, you know, 30 bucks a kid. And so now we're spending 100 bucks, you know, in one swipe, because we needed uniforms. And that pisses me off, because how do we spend them? Hundred? You know, you may actually see some reality as well. But she also, if there's any entitlement in her end or any like, oh, well, I don't know, I just, I just have to buy the girls if it's that attitude either she has to grow up and mature. So you both need to sit down and you need to come to her and say you have. You, you don't need to say, well, you're spending too much. You, you, you, you. Kody, you need to tell her. I'm freaking out over here. Like I am to this point where I feel so disconnected. I feel so fearful. I feel so protective of the money because I feel like we are not on the same page. So will you please sit down for me? Right. Like you make it really about you and what you want for the outcome to be, which is you guys be on the same page and for this not to take your marriage, because it does. Kody, you're exactly right. Because I do think people cannot get on the same page. And so I would beg you to say that that's one of the best things that you can do because out of that budget meeting, I think she's gonna have a lot to say. I think you're gonna have a lot to say and to be able to actually discuss it together, not these one off conversations. Does that make sense?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So we actually recently been met. Well, I almost make her. I mean it's, it's kind of like feels forceful sometimes because I'll sit down after the kids go to sleep and we'll sit and then I'll go over the budget numbers and stuff with her and. But like here recently, I've done it more so to where she's aware of, you know, but there's a reason, there's.

[Jade Warshaw]

There, there's a reason that this is off putting for her. And you've got to get to the bottom of what that is. There, there's something there. Whether it's something that has nothing to do with you, possibly. How did she grow up? What were the relationships she was in before? Maybe, I don't know, we didn't get to talk about it. But did she have a career before? And she's used to kind of contributing in that way and now she's not. There's something behind this. It's not just, well, she won't stick to the budget. It's never that. There's always something beneath and you've got to be a professional detective to figure out what that is instead of just saying, well, she won't do it and I've got to make her do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Everywhere you turn this time of year, someone's telling you to swipe a card now and pay later. But that mindset always leads straight to debt and post holiday stress. Fairwinds Credit Union takes a different approach. They're here to help you win with money. Fairwinds doesn't push credit cards. They help you build savings and stay debt free, just like we teach with the baby steps. And to do that, Fairwinds created the Smart Bundle with Ramsey fans in mind. It's more than a bank account. It's a tool to help you live with intention. The Smart Bundle includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the exclusive Ramsey Be Weird debit card which says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. So every time you swipe at this Christmas season, it's a reminder that you're choosing a different path to spend no more than you actually have to avoid that January budget hangover and to be free from debt traps. Go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to open your Smart Bundle and get your Ramsey Be Weird debit card today. That's Fairwinds.org Ramsey insured by the NCUA.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, it's that time of year and in a few weeks we're going to be doing the special giving edition of the Ramsey show. We do it every holiday season and it's one of our favorites because I think it does, it highlights humanity. It kind of gives you faith into like the things that people are doing day in and day out for other people that are not highlighted or not seen. We like to highlight and show you all how incredible it is. So whether maybe you've tipped a waitress $100 or bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family that couldn't afford something or afford the food, maybe bought someone a car. It could be something, anything that where you have been generous or maybe you've been on the receiving end of it. We want to hear from you. So if you will go to ramseysolutions.com ask and put giving in the subject line and just give us a little blurb of your story and what it is and you may be.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Selected to be on our giving show that we do annually again. So that is coming up on December 18th. So start sending your stories today so we can celebrate living like no one else. So later you can live and give like no one else. All right, let's go to Beto in Atlanta. Hey Beto, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi, how are you?

[Rachel Cruze]

We're doing well. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi. So I just bought my first car. I'm 17 years old. I work full time at a MMA gym and the finances that came with the car kind of are kicking me in the ass.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

But it's my first car and I don't really have another option.

[Jade Warshaw]

What'd you get?

[Caller]

I got a 2012 Honda Accord.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So what's the big deal? What's it cost you?

[Caller]

So the total is eight grand for the car.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

My friend owns it, owned it. And he told me I can pay him $400 a month. Okay, that's fine. I make $850 bi weekly.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And the part that's getting me is the insurance. My insurance for just liability a month because of my age is about $700.

[Rachel Cruze]

Mm.

[Caller]

And having to pay all of that on my own, buying a used car. I also have to pay a title tax because we switch it over time of his name, and that's about another $700 a month.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, just in one time.

[Caller]

Just in one.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. I was like, what? Hey, keep going.

[Caller]

But I have to get it all done at once, which is kind of the hard part. And. And I have one or two little repairs that are going to cost me a total of 350 before I can get a tag.

[Jade Warshaw]

What would happen? So you haven't done it yet? You haven't done this deal yet. How are you getting around now?

[Caller]

So I did buy the car.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, you did?

[Caller]

And I have an operating permit for. From Georgia without a tag for 30 days. But once that runs out, I'm going to be stuck without a tag and not being able to drive the car until I pay.

[Jade Warshaw]

We haven't. You haven't done the title exchange, the title transfer yet, right?

[Caller]

I have.

[Jade Warshaw]

Dang it. Okay. Because what I was going to suggest to you is to not buy this car and just work your job because you were getting around somehow before this. Keep doing that and save up four grand and get a beater.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Is there any way to go backwards on this deal?

[Caller]

Because I don't think so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, second. Second round then is you tell me how old you are again. 22.

[Caller]

I'm 17.

[Jade Warshaw]

17, man.

[Rachel Cruze]

Are you in. Are you in high school?

[Caller]

No, I work full time.

[Rachel Cruze]

You work full time. Okay. And how much are you making? Bi weekly?

[Jade Warshaw]

You said 1700amonth.

[Caller]

How are around 850 every two weeks?

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are you living alone or are you living with parents?

[Caller]

I live with my mother, but I try to contribute where I can. I'm really independent financially.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you are working full time, I just wonder because you said full time hours at an MMA gym. I wonder if there's Something that you could find full time. That will give you a little bit more money to give you some breathing room on this while you can get it paid off.

[Caller]

I applied to an orthopedic clinic of a friend that I know and I'm supposed to start in about two weeks. What will that be starting us at? 20 an hour.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And 40 hours a week, 8:00am, 8:00am to 5:00pm Monday through Friday.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So that's going to be better for you for sure.

[Rachel Cruze]

Are you able to go to this gym at night when you're, when you're done at 5pm? Yes, go and work at night. Okay. So you could go work from like five to seven, five to eight at the gym and get like an additional three hours a day.

[Caller]

Not necessarily. My hours from the gym are either 9:00am till about 1:30 or 4:00pm to 9:00'. Clock.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And if I get out of the other job at 5, the only time I have left would be those few hours.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And that would leave me no time to train, which is why I got the job at the MMHM in the first place.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, what if you, what if you just. What if you continue to train at the MMA gym just because you like training but you got a different part time, like a different side hustle job to bring in the 1700. So you did the full time gig at the orthopedic office and then maybe you drive some Uber because you got a car now or not Uber, but like you know, instacart, doordash, that kind of thing. And then yeah, you just work out at the place you like working out at.

[Caller]

That makes complete sense. I have one more question on starting my own business. I was actually going to start my own business soon about car detailing.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

But I wanted to know whether I should try to pull the trigger now or whether I should try to pull the trigger after I get everything with my car done and pay off.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean what's it cost? You don't have any money?

[Caller]

I have about a thousand dollars saved up that I have like in case my car like engine messes up or anything like an emergency emergency.

[Jade Warshaw]

And you need that.

[Caller]

Planning on touching? Yeah, I haven't plan planning on touching it, but yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So it would just for the car detail. You'll probably need some equipment. Right. To be able to. So that would be saving up and paying for that. So I would just price out beta. What if you talk to some people in the area that do it? How much they haven't invested in it, how many clients they have how long the job takes. Run some numbers. Because you may, I don't, I'm not sure what the numbers are. So you may find out. You may find out. Oh my gosh. This is pretty incredible. I only have to put 500 bucks in and I'm making thousands a month. That's worth pausing, paying off the car to get that built up to start that because it's going to bring in more income. Or you talk to people and you're like, oh crap, that steamer and this and this to really do it is going to be thousands and you're only really making X amount. Like whatever the numbers end up being, you probably can make that call. You have an amazing work ethic. Like it's very incredible. And I just want you, you know, steering your financial decisions to help you, not harm you in debt will always set you up in the negative. It always will. Financially, emotionally, your stress, everything. And I think you're kind of getting a glimpse of that. But I'm kind of glad you're getting a taste of it. At $8,000 for a stupid car loan versus a $40,000 business loan that you're probably going to want to do when you're 25 because you're very entrepreneurial. Right. So just remembering to stay away from debt altogether all together. And you're a smart, hard working guy and I think you're going to do fantastic. So, yeah, the car dealership or the car detailing stuff again, I would it out, kind of figure out and if it feels like, okay, that's a good investment, that's gonna, that's gonna bring me a significant more money than these other two things combined.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's something you can start small on. You don't have to start with every piece of it. It can really, you can build into that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. For sure. Yep. That and then, and then starting to, to, yeah. Get this, get this car paid off and it's gonna, it's gonna feel like an uphill battle with this insurance. When you turn 18, does it go back down? I'm sure, I'm sure it does.

[Caller]

I'm not quite sure because I asked one of my friends who works with insurance and he said not usually. And if it does, it's minimal, which I would appreciate anyway. Yeah, 700. About 700amonth for liability is the only thing that's killing me. The 400amonth for the car. I understand.

[Rachel Cruze]

Right, right, right. Totally.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's the insurance. Did you, where did you get the insurance? Did you price out different companies or did you Just, just pull a quote from one.

[Caller]

So I started with like Geico or something and they started me off at almost $1,000 for just liability because of my age. And then I went to a few places. I went to this mom and pop shop for insurance down the road for me and they quoted me lowest at 700 month.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I would keep shopping that just to see. And yeah, when you turn 18, you should see a little bit of relief. And also when the vehicle is completely paid off, you should see a little bit of relief. It's not going to be a lot, but it'll be something. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Gosh. Well, Beto, I hate that you're in the situation because I, I hear the, the stress and the regret already. But I really do think with putting some, some of these jobs kind of together, making some more money and really being focused right now, like I, I think you're gonna, you're gonna get out ahead on it. But, but I think it's a good lesson to learn. I hate to say it, it's not fun, but you're feeling the weight of debt. And that's what Deb.

[Caller]

Hey guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

George here. You know, I hate debt and that includes sleep debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

I've been there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Fatigue, low energy, brain fog. And that's why I switched to Casper. My Casper mattress helps me sleep easier, cooler and deeper.

[Caller]

And now every bedroom in my house has one on top of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Casper ships free, comes with a hundred night trial. And if you don't love it, they'll.

[Jade Warshaw]

Come pick it up.

[Dave Ramsey]

So let's ditch the sleep debt and build sleep wealth. Go to Casper.com Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 30% off all mattresses and up to 35% off everything else. That's Casper.com Ramsey promo code Ramsey exclusions apply.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, there's some things that no one tells you about money and those are the emotions around it. And Jay, that's what you wrote your whole new book on.

[Jade Warshaw]

That is right, what no one tells you about money. Yeah, it's.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's powerful.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Not only your story, but I think putting to words how people are feeling during this process, whether it's getting out of debt especially. But this, it's a whole journey. Right? This money journey is very real and it's very emotional. But also it feels like you are sitting across from a friend who's been through the journey and you give such great words to again how people are feeling and thinking.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank you. Yeah, I wanted to give practical steps because a lot of times, like you say, the Word, emotion. And it's all like in the classroom. The book is very, very practical. The same way we give, you know, seven baby steps, plan for your money. I'm giving you tactical things to get and deal with those emotions. It's not just you're gonna feel sad, it's no right. How do we work through it? Give me the information, Jade. I need steps. And they're there.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And some of the resolve too because your emotions aren't the end all be all to your point, there's something you can do to take that to continue. So that's right. I love it. So exciting. So you can pre order now for 24.99 and you can get over a hundred dollars in free bonus items including the audiobook which I appreciate so much. The early access to an exclusive video with your financial checkup with you, jade, and exclusive 3 week online book club and live Q and A with Jade Warshaw. So you can go to ramseysolutions.com store to pre order it. If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, we will leave a link below. But again, the book is titled what no one tells you about money. All right, let's go to Ian in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi Ian, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

[Caller]

So I'm in a pretty interesting, pretty blessed situation here. I'm a 20 year old engineering student and I started doing affiliate marketing on TikTok shop like a year ago and I've gotten pretty good at it. And last October I did $180,000 in sales.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good.

[Rachel Cruze]

Holy crap.

[Caller]

They returned about $23,000 in profit. But I realized I, you know, through this time I kind of realized I hate engineering and I don't really want to do that. So I definitely don't want to do that for a job. But I have a pretty interesting opportunity to sail around the world on a semester at C next semester.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh yes. I had friends do this.

[Caller]

Yeah, I was just kind of wondering like if I should take the time off and do the semester at sea, enjoy my youth or if I should continue to scale. Because honestly I think I could get to the point where I'm doing a thousand to two thousand dollar days.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. Is there a way to do both?

[Caller]

No, unfortunately I wouldn't have WI fi on the ship and then also I wouldn't be able to receive packages.

[Rachel Cruze]

Orders and that kind of thing. If you did pause it for five months, does that change the business drastically or can you just pick it right.

[Caller]

Back up The Business is kind of built on momentum, so it'd be pretty hard to just. It wouldn't necessarily be hard because I'm pretty skilled at it, but it would. I would definitely like. It would take some time to build back up.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love. I. I mean, I'll tell you straight up. I. I worked at SEA for a long time right out of college, and I loved it. It was the best time of my life. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I've been to so many countries. It is quite the experience. So part of me just wants you to have that life experience.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're 20 years old. I feel like you have your whole life to earn money, even though you're earning crazy money right now. There's something about. There's a specific time in life that you can just never get back. And there are experience points in life that are so good for you too, as a person to do all of and to enjoy. There's a part of me too, where I'm like, man, you're 20 years old. You're obviously skilled at understanding how things work and to be. I mean, not only just have an engineering degree, but let alone kind of some sales and understanding, marketing. I mean, you know, you didn't just fall into this. You learned it, and so you're a smart guy. So I'm not worried about your earning potential later in life.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So there's something about just doing a semester at sea. Go have fun, you know, you're 20 years old. I don't know. I. I'm an experienced person, though, so there's a part of me that. Are you. Do you have friends going?

[Caller]

Yeah, one of my best friends would be going with me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. And you want to go?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think I want to go, but at the same time, I'm also kind of worried about setting up my future. And like, I want to get into real estate in the future and kind of have that be my main thing.

[Rachel Cruze]

So you're not gonna do. You're not gonna do real estate in the next four months.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Jade Warshaw]

How's the semester at SEA being paid for?

[Caller]

So actually I got a full ride scholarship pretty much.

[Jade Warshaw]

So, man, I. I'm telling you, like, you're gonna be. You're gonna have to convince me that not to go, because I am. All that stuff's gonna be waiting for you. And I agree with Rachel. You're smart. I'm not too concerned about what you'll do. This is a kind of one of those. I don't want to say I don't want to say once in a lifetime, but it is kind of like a once in a lifetime.

[Rachel Cruze]

For sure. Yeah. You know, to be able to go and travel for five months around the.

[Jade Warshaw]

World and it's paid for.

[Caller]

Yes, yeah, absolutely.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know. I think you're 20 years old, Ian. I think you need to just relax, enjoy. I so wonder what other person. I wonder if we may have. May and Jade may be the only person.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ken would tell him to do it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Ken would. Ken would. Ken would say to go to Taylor Swift concert, too, so.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Ken would be a yes. George would probably be a no. I feel like George would be too practical.

[Jade Warshaw]

He might. I am. And let me just.

[Rachel Cruze]

And Dave, who. Who knows Nose throw up.

[Dave Ramsey]

The Throw up.

[Jade Warshaw]

The. Would say yes. But let me just say, like, percentage wise, I am a 100. Yes. I'm not like a 70. 30.

[Rachel Cruze]

Jade says do it, Ian. 100.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's your. What's your ratio?

[Rachel Cruze]

My percentage is I'm gonna go 95.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

Maybe just like a tad less than Jade. But again, from a percentage standpoint, basically, we're the same.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's good, Kelly. What's yours?

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm 100%. Okay. Is there anyone in the audience? We have an audience out here. Anyone in the audience? Everyone's giving a thumbs up. Would you do a semester at sea? Oh, we're getting a lot. Oh, wait, there's one guy. Oh, maybe one guy, just gray shirt. I don't know.

[Jade Warshaw]

I don't know.

[Rachel Cruze]

He's a little iffy. Okay. We got a lot of yeses, Ian.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm thinking you. I think you need to go. And when you stop in Paris. Ooh, enjoy it because I've never been so Give the Eiffel Tower a wave for Rachel.

[Jade Warshaw]

Eat a whole baguette Just in the streets A whole loaf of bread with no regrets.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, Go enjoy. And go enjoy your time as a 20 year old with no responsibilities. And then again, it's incredible that you built up that thing. I mean, now, again, if you were 34 with the two kids.

[Jade Warshaw]

Affiliate marketing is not going anywhere. Like, it's the wave of the the future and of the now.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're gonna do great. You're gonna do great. All right, let's go to Sonya in Orlando, Florida. Hi, Sonya. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, thank you for taking my call. How are you today?

[Rachel Cruze]

We're doing great. How can we help you?

[Caller]

Awesome. Well, I'm planning on retiring soon.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And using money that I have in my fidelity account, I'll have To use that for about a year before my Social Security will kick in as a supplement.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

I have five propert, including the one that I live in. And I want to know if it makes sense for me to sell one of my rental properties to pay off, which is free and clear.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, wow.

[Caller]

To pay off? Yes, to pay. All of my properties are free and clear except for the one I live in.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller]

And the one my brother lives in that I purchased after my mom passed. Bought her reverse mortgage.

[Jade Warshaw]

Are those two. Are those two in addition to the five or. They're part of the five?

[Caller]

I have a total of five, including the one I live in.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so if you sold one of the investment properties to pay off your primary home, would you officially pay off your primary home? Would it? Would it?

[Caller]

Oh, absolutely.

[Jade Warshaw]

It.

[Rachel Cruze]

Pay it off free and clear. And then would you have some additional money left over?

[Caller]

I. I have money saved up not only in my fidelity account, but I also have money in my bank account.

[Rachel Cruze]

How much do you have? Total? Total.

[Caller]

I have. In my bank account I have $130,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

So. And in retirement, I have about a half a million dollars.

[Rachel Cruze]

Good for you, Sonia.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, and what's the real estate total?

[Caller]

I'm sorry, what was the question?

[Jade Warshaw]

What's your real estate total?

[Caller]

My real estate total is. I have. I have $1.3 million.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. In all the real estate. Gosh, Sonia, you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Way to go.

[Rachel Cruze]

Are a baby steps millionaire. Incredible. So, yes, in a heartbeat. I would sell one of the properties to pay off your primary and be completely debt free and be living off your investments and the other rentals that, you know, if there's income coming in from them, knows. But you've done. You've done a fabulous job, Sonia. A fabulous job. And your next step. Yeah. Is just to become completely debt free and then live and give like no one else. As a mom, I plan for everything. I plan the budgets, snacks, lunches, backup outfits in the car for the unexpected. I mean, everything. Because moms handle a million details every day. So don't skip one of the biggest ones. What happens to your family if you're not there tomorrow? You guys, a lot of people put off making a will because it can feel a little scary. But here's what we all need to realize. Planning for the future isn't fear. It's lucky. And creating a will turned out to be one of the most loving, protective things I could ever do for my family. And Mama Bear legal forms makes it so easy. No lawyers, no stress, just an online process that you can finish in about 20 minutes. And now my husband and I both sleep better because we have taken care of the stuff that really matters. And it isn't scary. It's wise. It's what moms do. So if you've been putting off making a will, I totally get it. But don't wait anymore, because you're a mom first, which means you're always planning. So go to mamabearlegalforms.com and use promo code RAMSEY to save 20%. Mamabearlegalforms dot com code RAMSEY. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with Jade Warshaw, and we're going to Gabrielle in Los Angeles, California. Hi, Gabrielle. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hello, Jade. Hello, Rachel. It's Gabriel.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sorry.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, Gabriel. Gosh, I'm sorry. My bad. Thank you, Gabriel, for the. For the fix. How can we help?

[Caller]

All right, I was calling on behalf of my mom. She's 72, she's a widow who never remarried. Currently, she's retired, she's active in her church, and she has a home that's almost paid off. It doesn't include taxes and insurance, but lately she's been asking me for money. It started off small, but it's starting to escalate. How can I help her? Protect her being independent, but also set up her finances wisely for the future without becoming dependent on me or my siblings?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, for sure. How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 40.

[Rachel Cruze]

You're 40. Okay. And her house is almost paid off. Is she. Is she still working?

[Caller]

She's not.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so she's retired. Is she. Do you know. Do you have any idea numbers of.

[Caller]

What'S in her retirement she's currently receiving? Oh, as far as her retirement savings, she does. I believe she's exhausted them. So she's currently the only income coming in is Social Security.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do you know what that is?

[Caller]

I believe it was like 1100, 1300.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

And do you know the bare minimum. Do you know what her mortgage is and what she has left on the mortgage in full?

[Caller]

So the mortgage currently outstanding balance is around 100k.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then the mortgage payment is around, I'd say 1450.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, gosh. Okay. Well, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

So how is she paying for everything right now?

[Caller]

I have my oldest sister who's living with her, and I believe they're splitting the cost of the mortgage.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. So they're half and half. Okay. So it's. That's 700. And then everything else. I mean, is she able to pay for Is your sister splitting other bills? Do you know, like, like electricity, water, all of that?

[Caller]

Yeah. So from what I understand is that my other siblings, she approaches each sibling individually and asks for help, whether it's covering a bill or a few dollars here and there.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And it's for real needs. It's not for. Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is she able bodied to go to work? Is she able to work?

[Caller]

She is able bodied. However, she hasn't worked in some time and.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, that's so hard. I mean, the reality is she either. I mean, if she has no, if she has no money and all she's getting is Social Security, it's not enough. To your point, when taxes are due for property tax, I mean, when she pays off the house, you know she's gonna have to pay for property tax and all that.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's the home worth? I'm just curious, if she were to sell it, if she were to sell it, what would it be worth?

[Caller]

Conservatively, probably about 1.1 million. It's a five bedroom, three bath path. As far as her renting out the rooms, that's also been thrown around.

[Rachel Cruze]

But I hate that for her.

[Caller]

Require me involving myself.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I'm just wondering about everything.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is there like a. Go ahead.

[Jade Warshaw]

I'm just wondering because my head is that she's 72, she's still fairly young, and she's in good health. She could live till 92. Right. So in my mind, and I, as in my mind, I look at $1 million that she stands to take away from this and I go, okay, we can throw a decent amount and invest it and start that fund going. And then maybe she can buy a condo for, you know, 250 or 300. I mean, you're in Los Angeles. I don't know what's there, what's possible. Can she buy something that's very small just for her? And then your sister goes and does her own thing. Because I'm also thinking, what happens if the sister moves out and gets married or moves on in life? Right. So there's a lot of variables here. I'd love for her to get some hands on that money, get some of it invested and get some of it in a smaller, modest living space for her?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think that's, that's what I envisioned for her. I just don't know where to start. I think if I do get the ball rolling, I'm, I'm seeing that through start to finish.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So where would I start?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, I would start with, with. Is everybody in Los Angeles, like your whole Family or do you have family that lives in less expensive areas of the country?

[Caller]

No, we're all basically based out of the Los Angeles area.

[Rachel Cruze]

Have you looked at or would, you know, price ranges of, again, a very modest one bedroom condo that she could purchase.

[Caller]

Bedroom, one bath, condo. Purchase outright out possibly in the area like around. Oh, outskirts.

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, yeah, because she's got to be able to afford it.

[Rachel Cruze]

400. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. So then she could invest 500, you know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I'm not mad at that. And get that ball rolling. And then again, if she's able to not pull from those investments and maybe for just three years, work somewhere just to pay just the rent, you know, just mortgage. I'm sorry, not mortgage. Hopefully it's paid for. Yeah, taxes, Taxes. You know, lights, water, food, and just not touch that money as long as possible and let it grow and then live off of that. Because it's either gonna be that or you guys, as grown kid adults all have to say, okay, mom's not gonna be able to afford this long term. Are we gonna be willing to support her in it? So that would have to be a conversation that you guys have.

[Jade Warshaw]

Will she sell? Do you. I mean, if you imagine yourself bringing this up to her, what does that look like?

[Caller]

The last time that I brought up the conversation to her, it was emotional. Yeah, for me it's pretty straightforward. I mean, the way that we're talking right now is the way that I talk with her and you know, she's open to it, but again, she kind of pushes the work onto me, so.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And so do my siblings.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do they kind of look to you, your sisters too, to say, like, what do you think?

[Jade Warshaw]

Think?

[Caller]

No, they, they don't have an opinion as far as what she should do. They feel that, you know, it's our home that we grew up in and that she should hold on to it. And she's only got such and such ways to go.

[Jade Warshaw]

Listen, there's no, there's no getting around the fact that this is emotional. Like I'm, I'm telling people all the time that plays such a factor in, in how we manage the money. But if we look at the numbers, the math is not emotional. She doesn't have any money, she doesn't have anything. And she's healthy. She has a lot of years ahead of her. So she's got to get to the point where the comfort, the discomfort of staying the same is more uncomfortable than changing. Right. And that's gonna, you're start. She's gonna start to feel the cracks in that when you guys stop supplying the money, if that makes sense, the more that you got, and it's your choice, but the more that you say, okay, we'll float it, we'll float it, we'll float it. Just know, know that it'll float through the.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

For the next 20 years. Yeah. So you guys have to kind of get on the same page of saying we can talk to her about this, but if she doesn't do it, we have to allow her to feel it. Because when she feels it is when she's gonna realize, okay, I have a difficult choice to make. And just try to support her as much as you can. And it is emotional. It is tough. It's your family home. There's nothing comfortable about that. But the solution often lies outside the comfort zone. So. So.

[Caller]

So it sounds like my next steps might be like two part. Right. Kind of initiating that conversation with my mom about selling the home, possibly. And then as far as with my siblings, it's having that conversation. If we're gonna do this, we need to stop enabling her and giving her money, essentially.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that. I mean, that's what I would do. And even pull some options. You can even get in touch with one of our real estate pros. Yeah. Just to look for the area. Like what's in the areas of where you guys are just different options condo wise and be, you know, there could be one a mile down so she doesn't have to move major locations. Right. Maybe it's just the actual home itself, but run some numbers and kind of get some more facts around it. But, yeah, this is. This is difficult.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Warshaw]

Home Buyer Edge and Seller guarantee are.

[Dave Ramsey]

Available for qualifying borrowers and select loan types only and not available in all states or locations. NMLS ID 1591 nmlsconsumerexcess.org/housing lender.

[Rachel Cruze]

The all new Everydollar is here and it is way more than just the incredible budgeting app that it is. It now has tons of advanced features to help you make progress with your money so much faster. And the average person is finding thousands of dollars in margin in just the first first 15 minutes. So get every dollar for free starting today. Just get it in the App store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Alex in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey Alex, welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

I'm 28 and debt free. I'm looking to buy a tiny house to put on my parents property without a credit score. Now in a tiny house, technically not qualifying for a mortgage, how do I go about getting a loan for it?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, let's talk about the loan process and then we'll talk about the tiny house on your parents property. So with the loan process, if you have no credit score, you're just going to have to find a place that does manual underwriting for that. Now we would recommend Churchill Mortgage. There are companies that do that and you just have to check and make sure they'll do it in your area. But it's the same process. You're just going to have to show different trade lines, you're going to have to show your pay stubs, you're going to have to show proof of income. If you work for yourself, you're going to have to show your tax returns, that sort of thing. But for the most part the process is the same. But how much?

[Rachel Cruze]

But you're saying it doesn't qualify for a mortgage because it's a tiny house.

[Caller]

Correct. Yeah. So if it's under 400 square feet, I'm looking at square feet. It doesn't qualify for a mortgage.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's the cost of it?

[Caller]

I'm looking at about 40 to 50,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, save up and pay for it, Alex.

[Caller]

I'm sorry.

[Rachel Cruze]

Save up and pay for for it. It's like a car.

[Caller]

Right now I only have about 10,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, well then just wait a little bit. Yeah, so just put be putting some money aside, two, three thousand a month and just Work your way up and in probably, you know, 12, 18 months, then you can do it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Can I ask the long term strategy on this, Alex?

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So I have autism and I can't really live independently. So it's pseudo independent being on my parents property. Property.

[Jade Warshaw]

Got you, got you. Okay. What are you doing for work?

[Caller]

I coordinate volunteers for hospice.

[Jade Warshaw]

Cool.

[Rachel Cruze]

Are your parents involved at all, Alex, in this process? Would they be able to help you?

[Caller]

Not financially, no, but they've been a great support.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Okay, great.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long did it take you to save up the 10,000?

[Caller]

I just finished. I got debt free in February and then saved up like 6,000 for my emergency to six month emergency fund. And it's so, I don't know, last six months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Yeah, I'm with Rachel. Just keep saving for this. It seems like you've thought through the best way for you to live and I like that you've thought through that. I don't think you need to go into debt for this. And for anybody who is listening to my zero score should be deal.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's for the mortgage. No, but that's it. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

That are trying to do a full mortgage on zero credit score. But yeah, save up for it. I like the 40 to 50 000. Just understand that you. That this is yours. Like the resale on this virtually doesn't exist because it's on your parents property and this is money that you'll likely never get back.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

So understanding that is important, I'd say. Yep.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. So running the. Yeah, I mean so it will. Are you able to pick up extra work, Alex?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm looking for a second part time job.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, good for you. You sound incredible. I mean the fact, I mean you're very ambitious, you're very well spoken, you know what you want. You've been doing the baby steps. You became debt free, you got your fully funded emergency fund. I mean you're literally doing it all. The only thing that's going to suck is like the next probably three years of saving for this. You know what I mean? You just look at it like, you know, people want to save up for a car, they want to save up for a college education. Right. And these numbers, these are big numbers. I'm definitely not downplaying that. It's just so it's going to just take you longer to do it. And even though I guess technically, you know, I guess you could Ramsey, you know, go through it to say well, but a mortgage is the one type of debt and this is for a house.

[Jade Warshaw]

But Figure out a way to do it.

[Rachel Cruze]

But the fact that it's. The fact that there is no resale. Because the one reason we do say a mortgage, not only is because it is the most. The most expensive thing that you're ever going to purchase as a home, but also homes go up in value over time. And this is more like a car, in a sense, where it's going to go down in value. And so getting into debt, even a personal loan for this financially, would not be wise. So it really would be you putting money aside. And I mean, I don't know about the market in tiny homes. Is there. Can you. Can you. Can you buy or buy used ones?

[Jade Warshaw]

Ones.

[Rachel Cruze]

Can you buy a used one?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's what I'm looking at. Looking at them on, like, Facebook Marketplace.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

So maybe you could even. Alex, I don't know, because for some people, they may want it off their property, There may be some urgency to get one off. So maybe you could even negotiate with them and say, hey, if I have cash, you know, what's the lowest? You wouldn't be able to do that today because you don't have that amount. But when you're getting closer to that in, you know, three years or something, I mean, you may be able to negotiate date.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

For. For a lower price. Absolutely. Alex. Yep. Thanks for the call. And again, I think, Yeah, I would. I just wouldn't do that. I wouldn't go the debt route.

[Jade Warshaw]

I wouldn't either. And because you never know, especially if you're already buying it used.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

What type of resale would be.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

On maybe, you know, selling it in the future. Yeah, absolutely.

[Rachel Cruze]

All right, let's go to Elijah in Salt Lake City. Hi, Elijah. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going? I just have a question. I am 22 years old. I'm currently going to college right now. I'm almost done with my bachelor's degree. I have only about a year left. I'm only about 14,000 in student loan debt, so almost done. But, yeah, that's my only debt. No credit card debt, nothing. No car loan, nothing like that. I guess my question is. Well, I'm looking to go into law enforcement after I graduate. I guess my question is, is it worth it to stay for a master's degree if I get an, like, pay incentive for the rest of my career or if I should just, once I get my bachelor's degree, take that pay incentive and just start working?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, what would it cost you to get your master's? How would you Pay for it.

[Caller]

So that one would be, it would be loans, but it would be for a total about master's degree. I've been doing my research about 18,000 for the college that I'd be going to.

[Rachel Cruze]

And what's the difference in job that you would get if you just went into the police department with a bachelor's versus a master's?

[Caller]

Yeah. So if I went in with a bachelor's degree, I'd be getting a 3% paying center for the rest of my career. If I went in with a master's degree, I'd be getting 5% incentives. So I guess my question is it would take a long time to repay that. Like get that money worth. Yeah, that extra 2% every year. But I do really enjoy college. I do want to get married before I leave college and I, you know, enjoy my hobbies. So I just don't know if it's. It makes financial sense to get a master's degree.

[Jade Warshaw]

Not on debt. Not on debt. But I'm wondering if there's a way that you can cash flow it. Are you, are you working at all? And my next question is, do you have to do it right away or can you work on it later while you're in law enforcement and still get the 5% bump?

[Caller]

Yeah, you can still get the 5% bump. I've just heard from a lot of people that, you know, it's really hard once you're starting this full time job to go back.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. I mean, how much, how much are you getting paid? Paid like your first year that you're working.

[Caller]

So yeah, first year if with a bachelor's degree would be about 90k.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And then with a master's degree, if I came in first year, it would be about 95.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. So that's my thing is that the percentage wise is not big, Elijah. I mean it's, we're talking maybe a $4,000 difference and you could do that in two months with a side gig. You know what I mean? Like, so there's a part of me and I know, I mean we, I have friends in law enforcement and they even move around, they get up to detective or they, you know, move around within it.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

That can change your pay over time as well. So yeah, I think if you had the money and you wanted to do it, I don't think, I mean, I don't think I would stop you. But also, since you don't have the money, it's kind of, that's a no go for me personally.

[Caller]

Okay. Yeah. So you Would just.

[Jade Warshaw]

You would.

[Caller]

Okay. So you wouldn't be okay with, you know, taking out student loans?

[Jade Warshaw]

No.

[Caller]

Master's degree? No, no.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I'd get this paid off. And. And man, I wish we had a Ramsey dating app because I feel like we get a lot of calls of some ladies that are always single. Elijah. And they're always looking for a man and we could have pointed them your way. I know, I know. No, I, I appreciate the, the, the. The proactiveness of love.

[Jade Warshaw]

I do.

[Rachel Cruze]

I do with him because I do think that's great. I am. For getting married young and, you know.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what he said is true. Like, when you're in college, there's people right there to choose from. Once you get out in the world, it's like, I gotta work, I gotta go out after hours.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's exhausting, you know, it's absolutely exhausting.

[Jade Warshaw]

You gotta go to an event, get dressed up, college. It's like you got your pick right there.

[Rachel Cruze]

Got em right there. Oh, Elijah. Yeah. I hope that helps. So, yeah, if there's not the cash. But to Jade's point, if you're able to somehow cash float or even if you get into a situation where they help pay for half of it, I don't know, you know, your work, that would be incredible too. So I hope that helps. And yeah, good luck.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Jade Warshaw]

But with every spin of the digital.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wheel, the newsletter sign up the coupon.

[Jade Warshaw]

Code, you're giving away your data.

[Dave Ramsey]

You think that info just stays with the store?

[Caller]

I doubt it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It goes into the corners of cyberspace where data brokers grab it, repackage it, and sell it to spammers, scammers, and generally bad people. The FTC just reported consumers lost over $12.5 billion to fraud last year.

[Caller]

And that's not just another.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's your money, your time, and your privacy.

[Rachel Cruze]

And that's why I recommend Deleteme, your digital cleanup crew.

[Dave Ramsey]

The Deleteme privacy pros dig through hundreds of these data broker sites. They scrub your info and they keep it gone. Which means fewer weird robocalls, fewer spam texts. And it's the gift that keeps on.

[Jade Warshaw]

Giving because it's an annual subscription.

[Dave Ramsey]

And Ramsey listeners can get 20% off those annual plans. @joindeleteme.com Ramsey with code Ramsey at checkout. Do it today. That's joindeleteme.com Ramsey Ramsey code Ramsey.

[Rachel Cruze]

So over on the debt free stage, we have Christopher. Welcome, Christopher.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you. Rachel. It's so nice to be here.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm glad you're here. We have a lobby full of people. And always when we see someone standing on the stage with the headphones, we know, we know that you've been on a debt free journey. That's right, Christopher. Okay, so where are you from?

[Dave Ramsey]

I currently live in East Providence, Rhode Island.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, wonderful. All right. So how much debt have you paid off?

[Dave Ramsey]

$63,563.

[Caller]

Oh, my gosh.

[Rachel Cruze]

To the T. What kind of debt was it?

[Dave Ramsey]

Mostly it was actually 50. 50 credit card debt and car debt.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, credit cards and cars.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long did it.

[Dave Ramsey]

It take? 11 months.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow. You were pedal to the metal.

[Rachel Cruze]

You were. How much were you making during that time?

[Dave Ramsey]

I went from 72,000 to about 80,000. But with overtime, I'm set to close out about 110 this year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was working a lot.

[Jade Warshaw]

You were kicking it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Nothing. You just cut everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

That was it. Actually, I even sold the car. It was a brand new 2024. I was a little upside down. So I did the one thing you say is okay with debt, Get a loan pay.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so it's not a myth. It actually works.

[Dave Ramsey]

It worked out, it was tough. I ended up buying an 05 Lexus for about $6,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then a few months later, someone drove into it on my street.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, shoot. Oh, look at that. It's good looking car.

[Jade Warshaw]

How much were you upside down?

[Dave Ramsey]

I was upside down about 4,000, 5,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

You are the poster child or poster man adult of what we teach. I love hearing it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, thank you. Thank you. So when that one got hit, I actually got about $8,000 from the insurance company. And I was like, how much? How cheap of a car can I get? So I bought another car for $2,000. Put the rest of it towards my credit cards.

[Rachel Cruze]

Stop it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Look at me.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it right there, Christopher. And I said, you know what? That's what I'm driving right now. Let's keep working.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jade Warshaw]

A $2,000 car. How many miles on it?

[Dave Ramsey]

125,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Man. Oh, man.

[Rachel Cruze]

And was it okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

It runs great.

[Rachel Cruze]

Runs great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Manual transmission. It'll never die.

[Jade Warshaw]

Let's go, let's go.

[Rachel Cruze]

I wish you would be in the passenger seat of every 25 year old guy in America. Just be like, listen to yourself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y' all are always in the passenger seat. That's how I learned I'm actually a truck driver. And I was listening to The Ramsey Show 12 hours a day, five or six days a week.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's how you do it.

[Dave Ramsey]

And there were so many little pieces that were put together that made me realize this whole debt thing is really ridiculous. Why am I doing this to myself?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So, yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm glad you all do what you do.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you don't regret a thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not one bit.

[Rachel Cruze]

So amazing. Okay, so 11 months ago. Yeah. What was it for you that you said, okay, I'm done. I'm gonna just completely change everything I've been doing. I have a brand new car, I have some credit card debt, and I'm gonna just. I'm gonna change it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Well, like I said, I've listened constantly. There were two things that stuck out in my mind. I've been working 70 hours a week plus since I was 18 years old.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

I heard Dr. John Deloney say one time, very exasperated. You know, working 70 hours a week, a week isn't sustainable. Baby steps one through three are meant to be intense. After that, fourth, five and six are supposed to be intentional. I was like, maybe that's why I feel so burnt out. 70 hours a week for 16 years. It's a lot.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I said, you know what? That's the time. And between Dave saying the only reason, the only thing a credit score does for you is show how well you play kissy face with the bank, I was like, yeah, I've been playing that for a long time. Maybe I should stop doing that. So it was to time, time. Just get it done.

[Jade Warshaw]

What was the hardest part? I want to know. Like, it's one thing to hear it and then when you start doing it and you feel like, the discomfort of it, what was the main, like, emotion that was holding you back?

[Dave Ramsey]

I would say swallowing my pride. Like I said, I've been working very hard my whole life, and to have to get rid of a brand new car that I really enjoyed was your gift to yourself. Yeah, I just didn't need it. It wasn't a necessity. Necessity, I hear everyone say on here, oh, I had to go buy a new car. No, you didn't. Save up for a couple weeks. Buy a clunker like that one.

[Jade Warshaw]

Man, you need to be behind this desk.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Christopher, for real, though, I think that's a great point. The ego hates going backwards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Cruze]

So it does. It takes a level of humility to say what I was presenting to the world. What I'm going to present actually from a mathematical standpoint is better, but from a. From a presentation image perspective, it looks less right. And so the ego doesn't like it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Cruze]

Very, very difficult. And so the fact that people that do it, you know, are serious and I think a level of maturity and humility that's really, really amazing. Okay. So have you turned down the hours of working 70?

[Dave Ramsey]

I have so far. I'm planning on picking it back up probably in March. I don't like driving in the snow up north.

[Jade Warshaw]

Sure, sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

I figure now that I'm out of debt, I don't need to work 70 hours a week anymore.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's pretty it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Down to 40 or 50. And yes, in the summertime, I'll make some more money. And I'm still working on baby step three. Once baby step four comes, I'll be good.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And you can upgrade from the $2,000 car?

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Make some changes. Okay. Have you been able to feel a difference since you've heard difference?

[Dave Ramsey]

A couple years ago, I found out I had a panic disorder. So I have a little bit of anxiety. I think most of it was from my debt.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Dave Ramsey]

At that time, before I found the Ramsey show, I had a house that was $400,000. So it was a lot that I had that just I didn't need. I ended up selling the house long before I found the Ramsey show. Now it's just. I feel a weight lifted off my chest and I can just breathe. I sleep better at night.

[Jade Warshaw]

Simplicity.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Did you have some cheerleaders in your.

[Dave Ramsey]

Corner during all of us, My parents, Bob and Simone.

[Jade Warshaw]

Bob and Simone.

[Dave Ramsey]

All my friends up north, all my friends down here. I used to live in Clarksville for a while.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm here visiting them and I figured, hey, come do a debt free scream.

[Jade Warshaw]

Amazing. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

At one point, I had 42 credit cards.

[Jade Warshaw]

Holy smokes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was playing that game, building that credit score.

[Jade Warshaw]

Stop.

[Dave Ramsey]

As you know, I've heard Dave say it many times. Why do you get a credit card to build your credit score? Why do you build your credit score? To get more debt. Why do you get more debt to build your credit score. So I was like, that's just foolish. I'm done.

[Jade Warshaw]

Done.

[Dave Ramsey]

I closed every single account. Paid. I had a balance on five. One was around 3,800. One was 4,000. The other. The last three were about 8,000, give or take a few hundred. From that point, I went to the avalanche method. Because they were so close. I was like, I'll pay off the One that's at 28%. These two have zero. We'll save a little bit.

[Jade Warshaw]

Fine. So once you save the three to six months, what are you gonna do to celebrate? Because you, my friend, deserve celebration.

[Dave Ramsey]

I am going to continue saving to upgrade that hunk of junk.

[Jade Warshaw]

And what do you got your eye on?

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, the car I sold was a 2024 Subaru Crosstrek. My rental that I got here is an Outback, a Subaru Outback. And it's a lot more spacious. I kind of like that. So probably something like that. Or a Forester, something like that. An SUV with all wheel drive.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. Because you live in the snow.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, great. Okay, so I'm going back to the 40. Was it 42?

[Dave Ramsey]

42, yep.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Credit cards. What was the one that you were like you could not wait to close out? That you were like, I just discover. Discover.

[Dave Ramsey]

I took that and I went snip, snip.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, my God. Gosh. Wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

So great.

[Jade Warshaw]

You're a rock star, Christopher.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well done. Well done. Okay. What would you say to someone who is listening? Maybe they're a Christopher. Maybe they've just found the show and they're thinking, what? Like, gosh, I do have credit cards. I have car loans. What would you say to them if they feel like there's no way I could. I could do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I would say, just do it. What do you have to lose? Only your debt. You're just going to lose your debt. That's the worst case scenario. If you stop going into debt, you'll be good. Try your hardest. It's gonna be hard. Harder for some, you know, easier for others. And just keep doing it. If you keep pushing and keep pushing, struggle now so you can have a better life later.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Talk quickly about the adaptation. You took your car down to the dealership and got rid of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

How quickly did you adapt? Like, how quickly did you turn that corner from oh, woe is me to I'm fine with this $2,000 car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty quickly. I was. I was upset, like, kind of a little bit, but I was. My first car was a 95 Chevy pickup truck and I loved it. So I like older vehicles. It's just now things are so new, they're safer. There's better features. So you like the new stuff, too? At least with that 05 or 07 rather, I can fix anything on it. Yeah, good point. I don't need to take it to a mechanic. If something goes wrong, I just take it apart, replace a part and.

[Jade Warshaw]

Good point.

[Rachel Cruze]

You can figure it out.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Figure it out. Wow. Well, Christopher, you've made our day. Absolutely. I mean, no, for real, you. You are the reason we do this.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

And you're living proof that it happens. You know what I mean? And, yeah. So whether. Yeah. Single, married, male, female, whoever you are out there, this is the guy. It's proof that you just can say, if I just believe that I can do it and I start making changes, I can.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right. Just do it.

[Rachel Cruze]

I can do it. Incredible. All right, you ready, Christopher?

[Dave Ramsey]

I am.

[Rachel Cruze]

All right, so we got Christopher from Rhode islands paid off 60,3563 $3 cars and credit cards in 11 months, making 72 to 80 with overtime with $110,000 a year. All right, Christopher, let's hear your debt free scream.

[Dave Ramsey]

Three, two, one. I'm debt free.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh.

[Rachel Cruze]

Ladies and gentlemen, and gentlemen.

[Jade Warshaw]

Incredible.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's how it's done. That is how it's done.

[Jade Warshaw]

The poster man.

[Rachel Cruze]

Today's question of the day is sponsored by Y Refa. If you're tired of or if you've tried everything to fix your defaulted private student loans and nothing's worked, why Refi can help. They build custom fixed rate plans based on what you can actually afford. So learn [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not available in all states.

[Jade Warshaw]

Alrighty. Today's question comes from Layla in Maine. She says when my boyfriend sold his house and moved into mine, we agreed that he can buy into my house after a few years, which is now. We plan on getting married at some point, but we're in no rush. He's giving me $75,000 to be part owner of the house. What should I do with this money? I already have an emergency fund and my only debt is $220,000 on a mortgage, which will now be only half of my my debt and about 5,000 on a 2% interest car loan. Should I put it all into a mutual fund, load up my IRA or some mix of the two? I'm struggling, Layla, because you're asking one question, but I need to answer a different question than the one you're asking. I would give. I would do one of two things. A, here's my problem with the whole thing is the fact that you're not married in this house and you're exchanging money. Money in a way, and property in a way that married people do and really not even the way that married people do. Yeah, it's all messed up. But because you're not married, there's no protections here for you. And the more that you co. Mingle money into this, it's just going to make it more of a messy process. If for some reason this doesn't go down the path of marriage like you think, because to your own point, there's not even a rush to get married. So this is getting very messy very fast. If I were in your shoes today, and I know this is not the question you ask. Asked. But Rachel, if I were her, I would not accept money. Yeah. Until we get married. And if he wants to pay rent or pay something for living in your house, because essentially that's what's happening, he's got to be okay with that because there doesn't need to be a level of commitment by buying into a, a house if there's not a commitment to the relationship.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Well, and I'm assuming if he's going to be giving her this amount of money, does he want to be on the title, like be part owner, even legal? And that means you're then sharing a legal rights of a home with someone you're not married to. And as quickly as he says I love you, today is as quick as you could fall out of love. He falls out of love. And again, because you're not married, there's zero protection. He could just walk out the door and. But now you guys are gonna have to refinance a house to get his name off of it because you meet someone else and want to get married to this other person and got your ex boyfriend on it just turns into a mess. So. No, I mean, I wouldn't accept it. I'm with you, Jay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because again, I think I'm assuming by accepting this amount of money, he's going to want legal ownership of the home to be put on some, you know, on the title. So. So yeah, it's a, it's a no for me. And yeah, I mean the fact you guys are living together and before marriage, which is becoming more and more common, and if he wants to pay you rent and you guys have a roommate type relationship too, you can do that. It just gets really messy really fast. And from a relational level, I will tell you, studies are coming out more and more as well to show that actually divorce rates are much lower if you don't live together before.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. That's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

And the quality of marriage and the quality of relationship and everything is different when you're not just playing house and then deciding to finally commit, you actually go through the Stages, which is more old school, but it's showing more and more from a relational standpoint. It's more stable. So. And again, that's not what you asked, Layla. But I'm with Jade. I wouldn't accept it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. And therefore, I'm not going to answer the question you asked.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's all love, Layla.

[Jade Warshaw]

It's all love.

[Rachel Cruze]

All right, let's go to Jay in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Jay.

[Jade Warshaw]

Welcome.

[Caller]

Hey. Hello, Ms. Jade and Ms. Rachel.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, hello, Mr. J. How can we help today?

[Caller]

Yes, I just had a question about investing in Roth versus the traditional 401k. And only because, like, from my experience, I invested in a 401k that for about a year, and it was about like twelve hundred dollars in there a couple of months ago. But also I had ended up losing my job, so I just went ahead and sold it and I got back half. So. So I was trying to see what was different.

[Rachel Cruze]

So normally. Yes. Okay, so what we would normally say is if you leave a job, you want to roll over your 401k just to a traditional IRA, so you're keeping the investments. You're just moving it out of the company's 401k versus basically what you did is you just sold it. Yeah. And if it. And if the market was kind of low at the time, you know, you may not have gotten, you know, fully what it was and probably paid some taxes and all of it fees. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Because it was retirement funds.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

You did get hit hard with some penalties. So our rule of thumb with investing is did your 401k at your previous employer, did it have a match built in?

[Caller]

Yes, it had about a 4% match.

[Rachel Cruze]

4% match. Okay, perfect. Do you have a new job now with a 401k currently?

[Caller]

Yes, I have a new job and they actually match up to 30%. Wow.

[Jade Warshaw]

Gosh.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Okay, perfect.

[Jade Warshaw]

And is this one a Roth? You asked about Roth versus traditional. Is it a Roth 401? 401k on this one?

[Caller]

I think so. I. That's another thing. I'm not really sure the difference in, you know, I just picked one.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

If you have the choice. If there's. If they're telling you you have the choice, and I would ask, I would make sure to get with HR and ask that question. I would select a Roth option because in that way you're paying the taxes on the money now so that when you go to retire, all. It's all tax free growth, which is great for you. So I would always select that. And if not, the traditional is fine, and you can get the match on that. The biggest question is if you're ready to be investing yet at this point. So can you tell us a little bit about, like, do you have any debt? Do you own or rent your house? Tell us about that.

[Caller]

Yeah, so I rent right now. My rent is about 700. And other than that, I have child support. That's about 400. That can vary. And then my student loan repayment is about $60 a month. I put a extra 60 with it, so it's about 120.

[Jade Warshaw]

What's the whole. What's the whole lump of debt?

[Caller]

I just. I will. So I found you guys about a year ago, and I paid some stuff off, so I just got about 9.7k left.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay.

[Caller]

Out. I started at 22.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. Way to go.

[Rachel Cruze]

Nice.

[Jade Warshaw]

Anything else? Credit cards or cars?

[Caller]

Oh, yes, My groceries are about 200 and so, yeah, that's it.

[Jade Warshaw]

No credit cards, no car note?

[Caller]

No, I. I did open up a credit card last year, and then I found you guys a month later and closed it.

[Jade Warshaw]

Look at that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you have any money saved, Jade? Jay?

[Caller]

Yes, I have about 2.5 saved. The only thing is that's earmarked for a car right now. I work for a company, and we. We get company vehicles, so that comes out of my check. But so I'm saving that 2.5 to just get another car right now.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh. Cause you've only been driving the company car.

[Caller]

Right. For this year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. Yeah. So what I would probably do, Jay, is just pause all retirement and work to throw as much money at this $9,700 that you have left in debt and then start working to bump up that emergency funds. You know you have 2,500 in it. I know it's earmarked for a car, but I would just. I would get three months. And you don't have a ton of expenses month to month, which is great. So you could be on the three month side. That could be your baby step three. And then we can start looking at retirement, which will be 15% of your income into retirement. So. So like Jade said at the beginning of the call, the Roth. This is a picture I have. This is my dad's teaching from the old, old fpu. But it's the little coat. Do you remember this? He had, like, different jars. Like, One was a IRA, one was a 401K. And then there's like, a little coat that he put over each one. He was like, the coat is the Roth. So if so, so if your investment has a Roth around it, that means you have funded those retirement accounts after you've paid taxes on your income. So you pay all your taxes and then after tax income then goes into those. Now if it's before tax, then again that money is coming out before you pay taxes on your income. And because of that, the government has to tax you on that because they did not tax you earlier on your income. And then they tax you on all the growth. And if you know anything about compound interest, your investments will grow, grow, grow. So Roth is amazing. Not everyone offers a Roth 401K, but if they offer it, like Jade said, take it and open up a Roth IRA and be putting 15% of your income into that. But that won't probably be for another two years, Jay, or year and a half after you pay off this debt and get a fully funded emergency fund. But I'm so glad that you like you picked up the show and you actually are making progress. You paid off so much debt already, Jay, so just keep at it. You're doing incredible. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with Jade Warshaw and we are taking your credit calls at 888-825-5225. And up next we have Les in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Les. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Hi. What a pleasure to speak with you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, well, thanks for calling in, Les. How can we help today?

[Caller]

My question is, is there any rule of thumb or percentage of how much of our assets we could have tied up in our home versus cash? Our current situation is I'm 72, my wife is 69. We still have income from our business of 300,000 a year, but that will slowly curtail as we enter more of a semi retirement mode. But we're currently two and a half million net worth. Two million cash. Half million in the home. We were looking at a potential purchase or upgrading or wouldn't this be nice in a home? We're a little bit spoiled. We've had two occasions where we've lived a home, the water on a lake in our town. We have a small, they call it a mountain but it, it, it's a small mountain that is overlooking. Yeah. But it, it has a limited number of, of home sites or it's quite old. A lot of the homes are quite old up there of about 120 overlooking the city with mountain ranges in the west.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so you're wanting to upgrade? Upgrade from the 500,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Or upgrade?

[Caller]

No, no, it would be primary home.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, what's it going to cost to get that house in the. On the big hill?

[Caller]

If it doesn't stay within 1 million or 1.1, then the deal's off the table. But then that would be a shift of. We'd have a million in the house and one and a half million in cash.

[Jade Warshaw]

How long will you continue to draw the 300,000 and how quickly do you think it'll like? What will be the rate of deplenishment?

[Caller]

I would, based on my projections. It, it won't completely end, but, but I projected that in five. It'd be five years before we'd even have to start drawing off of any interest or anything in our investments.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, five years. Okay, that's great. And in the meantime, will you continue to invest from the 300,000? Please say yes.

[Caller]

Oh, oh, heavens, yes. Here's brief background story. After bankruptcy and foreclosure at age 57, my wife 54, we walked into a Financial Peace University class, nothing to our name, $320,000 in debt exactly 10 years almost to the day. We said, well, when Dave showed us the path, we said, we're committing to this. We're doing this almost 10 years. Exactly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wow.

[Caller]

We hit the first million the next five years, the second million. We're on track that the third million would be in three years.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Unbelievable.

[Caller]

So, gosh, less.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well done, you guys. That's incredible. Absolutely incredible. Yeah, so I am.

[Caller]

Do you guys grateful, you folks?

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, well, no less. I mean, you're the one that did it. I mean, seriously. And would you say 20 years ago?

[Caller]

It'd be 16.

[Rachel Cruze]

16 years ago. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Incredible. Yeah. So I think from, from the rough math. Yeah. If you guys are able to, you know, be able to get this 300,000 and I know you have to live on some of it, but yeah, in four years that could easily become another million to throw in. So I think if you guys keep it around that million dollar mark. Mark, from just the rough math of even if you just didn't even add the other million, but you had the 2 million, you know, and if you're living off 6% or whatever it may be, I think you're. Yeah, you're gonna be, you guys will be totally fine. Do you have a good financial planner?

[Caller]

Yes, I, I kind of hesitate because I've been kicking around just doing it myself.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, that's fair. Yeah, yeah. So I think, yeah, I think sitting down and kind of running out all the numbers with someone because, because if you're 72 and in good health. I mean, you could live another 20 years, but I think. Jay, did you.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, I was just looking through it. I mean, you're, you should be putting away at least 3750amonth. Is that, does that feel about right for you?

[Caller]

Yeah. Currently or more. More. Putting away 150,000 a year.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, great. And so you have to consider. Yeah, lump sum is going to double every seven years. So let's say like you said, it's at five years that you'll continue to get that $300,000 income, so.

[Caller]

Well, no, it's going to incrementally reduce.

[Jade Warshaw]

Reduce. Okay, but what's it cost to, what's it cost to run your household? You've got a lot of margin, correct?

[Caller]

Right. Current. Current to run the household is 7,000, but at this point, 2,800 of that a month is designated it to vacations.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah, exactly. So you've got plenty of margin.

[Caller]

Not. Yeah, that.

[Jade Warshaw]

My point is you should do this. That's. My point is you're gonna have plenty of money. You guys have done well. You've got a great income. It's gonna dwindle, but it's still going to be a really great income for the next five years, even as it continues to slowly go down. I'm okay with the. You're, you're doubling in house. House. And I, I'm okay with it, Rachel. I'm, I'm.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I mean, I think the million. You have 500,000 in your primary home now it's just pulling out another 500,000 to upgrade to a million dollar home. And then you guys will have that 2 million in cash. Yeah. And then you'll be putting some money away continually. And then I think from there. Yeah, I mean, I think you got a great nest egg. And yeah, I think you'd be totally fine. But again, I think running all scenarios with somebody who's looking at the market, looking at rates, looking at how aggressive your funds are, are how not aggressive they're putting, I mean, whatever that you're invested in. I would be running some long term numbers because, you know, there is the, the percentage of what you want to withdraw. That makes sense from a historical perspective of what the market makes. Right. So like of course, one year, you know, or last year was like 23% or something crazy.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, it was crazy. Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wild. And then some years it's going to do 8%. Right. So to be able to find that happy medium. And I know people have different percentages of their opinion, financial planners will be more conservative, which is great. I think Dave is a little aggressive when he says that you can pull out. He's like, it's fine. The market's right, right? Yeah, but we run in those long numbers long term for you and your wife over the next, you know, map out 20 years and just see, see what it brings you. But yeah, you should be, you should be totally fine. Les, I think you're being very conservative. And again, it's not this percentage, but the fact that everything's paid off too. Because that is one thing we, we think about going into retirement, having a paid off.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

House is a huge, huge upside to when you start actually pulling some money from retirement. How much you actually need to pull when you don't have to pull a mortgage or rent. Like, man, that saves you a ton. Right? So, Les, well done. You and your sweet wife, I mean, 16 years ago decided to change the game on what you guys do with your money. And it just proves that money is a long term marathon. You, you guys. But it works. If you do the right stuff over and over again, it works. Hey, friends, our Black Friday sale is live. So if you're already feeling the pressure of holiday shopping, just take a deep breath. You'll find great gifts for everyone on your list. And with prices as low as $6.99, you won't wreck your budget. Pick up best selling books like the Total Money makeover or Baby Steps millionaires for just $12. Skip the shopping chaos, friends, but don't wait. These deals won't last. Visit ramseysolutions.com store. Well, you don't have to wait for Black Friday to get our Black Friday deals. The sale is happening right now. It includes a $12 bestselling hardcover books, $12 questions for humans decks, $6.99 audiobooks and ebooks, which is one what I'm loving these days.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes, indeed.

[Rachel Cruze]

Fifteen assessments and more. Just go to ramseysolutions.com store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, we will leave a link in the description. All right, let's go to Kim in Salt Lake City. Hi, Kim. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks for having me.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, absolutely. How can we help? Today.

[Caller]

I am left a single moment unemployed after a divorce after 26 years of marriage. Sadly thought I'd be over it in two years, but doesn't happen always that easy, I guess for some people. So, yeah, I'm at the stage where it's time that my divorce decree claims. I need to either get my home in my own name or sell it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

I have all the equity. I took that as alimony because I didn't want to disrupt. I had seven children living at home at the time with the divorce.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I have two. I rented my basement immediately, like the week my divorce was. Finally, I put up a wall. Rented the basement. I'm going to make this happen. And now two years have passed, and I'm trying to figure out how. I feel like I'm making baby steps, but I don't know how to make the big steps, I guess, or the big decisions.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, for sure. How much equity is in the house, Kim?

[Caller]

So it's an acre in horse land and. Property value quoted as 1.4 million. I have to give a little off, I'm sure, for the state of part of the back acreage and.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so for 1.4 million, how much do you have left on the left loan?

[Caller]

450,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

450. Okay. And how much is the mortgage payment a month?

[Caller]

I pay 2880.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

How have you been handling that? 2880 with. With no income.

[Caller]

A divorce. Yeah. So we scheduled. We. We mediated November of 23. Divorce was final January 24, so that he could claim us on his taxes, which I just realized. Oh, no wonder. That's going to affect my college, my fafsa, anyway, right now. But that's a side note. The point is, I. The minute I had an inkling he was making decisions different than for our family because we. He used to have. He owns a business that's worth a few million, and I chose to just walk away and take equity in the home so I didn't have to disrupt my children.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sure, sure.

[Jade Warshaw]

How have you been paying for this mortgage currently? Because this has happened and you've been living.

[Caller]

I've been saving. I had. I had. I had about $50,000 in savings.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you've just been pulling it out of that.

[Caller]

Yeah. Like somehow 400,000 turned into 40,000, what he could give me at divorce time. And I said, fine.

[Jade Warshaw]

So you were. You were given 400,000. Did I hear that right?

[Caller]

No, we had that in the bank. He bought an Aston Martin.

[Jade Warshaw]

Understood.

[Caller]

Anyway, we won't go into that part.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, so you've been. You had 50,000 in savings and you've been kind of just pulling it out every month to live, and now it's gone.

[Caller]

I have good storage. Yes. I sold jet skis. I sold my truck because I don't have any debt. Besides, my home never did so. But my. So I'm living off my truck payment right now. I'm going to accounting school and I'm online.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay, good.

[Caller]

And I did get student loans.

[Jade Warshaw]

When will you be done with accounting school and able to work?

[Caller]

I have like a year. That's the problem. I really think it's a self esteem issue. Well, how do you fought my unemployment? Yeah, I didn't get unemployment and he. Anyway I'm. It destroyed me. I really, I know I'm smart.

[Jade Warshaw]

You are do it and you can.

[Caller]

And I figured out how to do all the accounting for his business for his. And I was just a stay at home mom and I could have gotten the alimony of a stay at home mom. But then. Oh wait, when you work for four years you're an able bodied worker.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. I want you. Have you been in any counseling, Kim?

[Caller]

Yes. Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Okay. I want you to continue with that because you're right, this is, this is huge.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And Kim, are your kids all in so school?

[Caller]

Well, yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. You're young.

[Caller]

High school freshman and senior.

[Rachel Cruze]

Perfect. Okay, great. Cuz I was going to say I think it would just be good for you. Kim, to your point about self esteem, there's something about going through the actions after something that's just horrific. I mean I can't imagine. I think what you've walked through is so difficult. It's so hard. I think it would, I think it would take away anyone's self esteem. I mean like it just, it's horrible. But I think there's something to be said about getting up in the morning, putting on an outfit, going and interacting with other people and then coming home and that may even be a receptionist at an accounting firm or something. You know what I mean? Like if there's a way to get your foot in the door just in that industry since you're going to school for it and make some connections, it's gonna be really helpful. But to do anything, Kim, I mean honestly, I think it would just be really healthy for you to get out of the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

House.

[Rachel Cruze]

Earn some money, be around people. And you're gonna have to because you are running out of money. So there is the self esteem issue of that. It's good for you to do this and get some wins under your belt. But you also, you're gonna have to do this from a financial standpoint if you want to keep the house. Now that's gonna be a big question to figure out if you can sustain this house. And, and so you need to know, okay, a year from now here's what I have to make full time as an accountant starting out to be able to support this, this mortgage payment which you're going to need to make. I mean, gosh, yeah. I mean it's basically I little bit.

[Caller]

Put it off because I had a child with anxiety that really struggled.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Like every day for eighth grade we ended up doing like we're doing two periods a day.

[Jade Warshaw]

But you're okay? Are you in a place now though? I wanted to, I know there's a lot that happened then, but I really want to focus on now.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Jade Warshaw]

And here's why. Let me tell you why. Because here's why. If you sell this house and you take a million dollars from it, I'm afraid that you'll just burn through that and not work and I don't want that for you.

[Caller]

And yeah, that's what I'm afraid too. That's exactly. Thanks for putting that into work, you know.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so that's why I want you to take Rachel's advice and today, this week, week that be your number one priority is I'm going to look for receptionist jobs and if I can't find a receptionist job, I'm going to look for another job answering phones and if I can't find that, I'm going to pick anything, take anything because.

[Rachel Cruze]

Or a local church, if there's a local church even to go get plugged into and work for them. Because Kim, to Jade's point is so good because Kim goes with Kim and if Kim stays the same and you're staying consistent and you get a million dollars in your, you continue to be Kim with a million dollars and right now we know there's a better version of Kim. So if we can get a better version, a healthier version of Kim and then even you make the call in a year or two to sell the house. Well, we have hard working up and out of Kim who's, you know what I mean, self sustaining with a million dollars, which means you're going to be making really clear decisions when it comes to money. I think you still are in that fog, which again I do not fault you for. I think, I think when you walk through a divorce that grief is horrific and having seven kids that you're still thinking about, I mean all of it, it's very, very difficult. So the fact that you're still grieving, I would not, I would not shame you for that. And I don't think you need to be shamed. You know, shaming yourself, I think give yourself the freedom to still feel and experience what you're experiencing. But we also have to start making some moves to create a positive positivity around us. And I think part of that is getting some quick wins. And I really do think there's a self esteem boost when you earn and you do something and there's a cause and effect. And you know I can do this because you can, Kim. You really, really can. So we are cheering you on. If you'll hold on the line, Christian will pick up and we're going to give you every dollar for a year to help you get this budget crunching when you start earning this income to figure out how to stay on track.

[Caller]

Hey guys, George Camel here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not.

[Caller]

What you actually need?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's insurance resource hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection and more. And when you're ready to get the.

[Rachel Cruze]

Coverage you need, you can connect with.

[Dave Ramsey]

A Ramsey trusted insur insurance pro who will only get you what you need.

[Caller]

At the best price.

[Dave Ramsey]

Go to ramseysolutions.com insurance ramseysolutions.com insurance.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, it's not every day, Jade. We get two debt free screams.

[Jade Warshaw]

What?

[Rachel Cruze]

In one show. And so we are so excited that on the stage, in the lobby, on the debt free scream stage is Steve and Tanya. Welcome you guys.

[Jade Warshaw]

Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks Rachel.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely. Hey, where are you guys from?

[Jade Warshaw]

We are from Piedmont, Alabama which is.

[Rachel Cruze]

About an hour north of Birmingham. Okay, so close to Birmingham, Alabama. Yes. Okay, so how much debt have you guys paid off?

[Dave Ramsey]

279,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh my gosh. Okay, and how long did that take you?

[Dave Ramsey]

6 years, 10 months and 27 days.

[Rachel Cruze]

27 days? Yes. And making what kind of income during that time?

[Dave Ramsey]

When we started it was 135. We finished up at about 252,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

Very nice. And what kind of debt was the 249,000? Well, we had about 79,000.

[Jade Warshaw]

My we had about 61 in consumer.

[Rachel Cruze]

Debt like tractor truck, little bit of.

[Jade Warshaw]

Credit card and the rest was our house.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know you did. Oh, you paid off the house. We did everything completely debt free in six years, you guys. Yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

Incredible. I mean just below the seven year mark. You guys did great. You guys. Really? Yeah. Amazing. You guys. Congratulations. Thank you. Okay, so what happened six years ago to make you think we want to Go on this crazy journey and pay off our house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, we actually got married seven years ago. I don't know, seven and a half years ago. And so we were about to embark upon building this house, and so. And we had kind of eye. Had gone to FPU years ago. I kind of dabbled in the baby steps, but never really was aligned in that. In that marriage and just kind of struggled the whole way through it. When we got together, we just committed from day one that this is what we're gonna do.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Lockstep. She says, we're doing it. Yeah, we're doing it.

[Jade Warshaw]

I love the picture.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, it's so good. Is that when y' all paid it off? That. Was that the picture of when you did your last mortgage payment?

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, I know.

[Rachel Cruze]

They throw it back up there. So good. Okay, so. So when you guys got married, you both. Did you guys talk about it a lot before you guys tied the knot? Money in general? Because I do feel like people get nervous, and if it's a second marriage, too. Right. We hear that a lot, that people are like, oh, gosh, I don't know if I kind of want to keep it over my stuff over here, his over there. How did you guys work that out?

[Jade Warshaw]

Well, it was kind of, hey, we're gonna do this.

[Rachel Cruze]

We're gonna do this together no matter what. Yes. You know, because I know in my.

[Jade Warshaw]

Past and in his, you know, we. You know, we weren't on the same.

[Rachel Cruze]

Page, so we definitely talked about faith, finances, family. So the three Fs, the three Fs, that's what you get. I love it. Well done, you guys. Okay, so what was. What was the hardest part of all of this?

[Dave Ramsey]

I think the hardest part is just.

[Rachel Cruze]

Choosing to live different.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, everyone around you is doing all the things. Eating out, you know, doing all the things. Like, we ate out on Tuesday night when tacos were $1.25. That's the only time we ever ate out.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, we packed our lunch every day. We bought our clothes at thrift stores and on ebay. We sold things we didn't use. We just. We just chose to live differently.

[Jade Warshaw]

Did anybody ask questions like. Like, was it obvious to people around you, like, you're doing something different, or were you kind of flying under the radar?

[Rachel Cruze]

No, I talked about it a lot. They were sick of hearing it. I know my grown children were sick of hearing it. My friends, my coworkers.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, I just kept. We kept laser focused, and that's all that I thought about That's. And I'll tell you what really turned it around. We sat and did our written budget. We do the old school papers, the written budget. And I asked Dave, I said, have you had. Have you ever really tithed 10%? Like, have you went all in? And he's like, no. And I was like, we're doing it, and we did it. And when I tell you promotions rolled in and raises, and I mean, it just.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh. It just all came together.

[Jade Warshaw]

I mean, we were obedient. We were very disciplined.

[Rachel Cruze]

Like you said, we packed our lunch every day and.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm so sick of Tupperware. Yes, that's right.

[Jade Warshaw]

I know. Well.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, it's funny. I was going to ask you guys, because we always talk about baby steps. One through three is intense. Yes. And then four through seven or four through six is kind of, you know, we say intentional, but you say. It doesn't sound like you guys let up very much to pay off the house. Or do you feel like a lot of that sacrifice was during the consumer debt stage? And then did y' all lighten up when you kind of went to work on the house, or were y' all intense the whole way?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, we actually wound up at the end. We were paying $5,500 a month, every month on the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

Everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

We didn't let up. Once we got. I mean, once we got the savings in place, then every spare dollar went to the house.

[Rachel Cruze]

Went to the house.

[Jade Warshaw]

So then I want to ask you the question that I hear all the time, which is, I mean, six and a half years. Six years is a long time. How did you stay motivated? Like, what was the thing. Thing that kept you going with that? I mean, $5,500 a month is a lot.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's a lot.

[Jade Warshaw]

It was little wins. It was if we wanted something special.

[Rachel Cruze]

We wanted to go out to eat.

[Jade Warshaw]

Or, you know, I wanted to buy a new blouse or whatever.

[Rachel Cruze]

I sold things.

[Jade Warshaw]

I sold.

[Rachel Cruze]

People were sick of me on Facebook.

[Jade Warshaw]

I want to find the money to do this.

[Rachel Cruze]

Tanya's like, there's Tanya again, selling something. I would buy decor and just flip it.

[Jade Warshaw]

But we followed the baby steps. I love just to the te.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. And I was kind of like you, Jade. Like, I always heard, you know, we.

[Jade Warshaw]

Ain'T got no money. I mean, I was raised, you know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Paycheck to paycheck, and.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I literally changed my family tree.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I'm leaving a legacy to.

[Jade Warshaw]

We're leaving a legacy to our children's children.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. It's Incredible by that decision to. Yeah. To live differently. What you were saying, Steve, I'm like, it's just. It's so powerful. So powerful. Okay, so what would you tell a couple that's listening? And maybe they're in your station of life, Right. And they are. They've walked a similar story to you guys, and they're thinking, oh, gosh. But there's no way, like, I don't know, I don't think we can change. I don't know if we can do something different. What. What encouragement or motivation would you give them to say, yes, you can do something that is totally different than maybe how you. What you ever done with money. And you could even have a paid off house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, for me, I mean, I. I mean, I basically started over when I was 55 years old. And, you know, so my message is that it's not too late. Yes, you know, yes, you can. You can turn things around. You know, I was not in a position where, I mean, where I wanted to be. And I mean, back to the motivation question. I mean, my motivation was that I want to retire before I'm 65.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's good.

[Jade Warshaw]

And so, yeah, mine was, you know.

[Rachel Cruze]

Like I said, I just wanted to.

[Jade Warshaw]

Do something completely different than how I.

[Rachel Cruze]

Was raised or how my family. I wanted to make sure, you know, my children have the things that they.

[Jade Warshaw]

Needed, and they see me as an.

[Rachel Cruze]

Example and also grandchildren.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I just. Yeah, yeah, I just refused to stay the same. That's right. So how are you gonna celebrate? What's the big thing that you guys are gonna do to put a big bow on this? Well, When I turned 50, he took me to Hawaii. So we have, you know, once we.

[Rachel Cruze]

Were out of debt, we saved and paid cash.

[Jade Warshaw]

And.

[Rachel Cruze]

And so we've.

[Jade Warshaw]

We've done some trips.

[Rachel Cruze]

We love to travel.

[Jade Warshaw]

Generosity is huge.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, that was us in Montana. So good. We're.

[Jade Warshaw]

Generosity is huge. And just enjoy and travel and beautiful, you know, live like no one else.

[Rachel Cruze]

I hope y' all enjoy a Nashville night tonight. Thank you. I hope y'.

[Dave Ramsey]

All.

[Rachel Cruze]

I hope y' all get to celebrate doing the Step Free Scream because it's incredible and your. Your story is so inspiring to so many people that. Yeah, anyone can do it. You know, it's just like if you just got to believe and you got to stay consistent.

[Jade Warshaw]

Exactly.

[Rachel Cruze]

Like, that's what I heard too, which is incredible. All right, you guys, are you ready?

[Jade Warshaw]

Ready.

[Rachel Cruze]

We've got. We got Steve and Tanya from right outside of Birmingham, paid off $279,000 which includes their house. And they did it in six years, 10 months, and 27 days, making 135 to 250. All right, you guys, count it down. Let's hear your big D. Debt free scream.

[Dave Ramsey]

Three, two, one.

[Rachel Cruze]

We're debt free. Oh, my gosh.

[Jade Warshaw]

So good.

[Rachel Cruze]

See, what I love about that is, you know, they both said they had been married before, second marriages. And there is. And Steve said, you know, I had to start over at 55. And there's just something about this Redemption.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

That you. But you get to. It's a second chance. There is something that I can still change what I've done. And because of that, still, their grown kids are watching them.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right.

[Rachel Cruze]

And then their children's children. You know, just like what Tonya was saying. There's just something beautiful about that legacy, that even when. When hardship happens and occurs, which it has in all of our stories, but you can still change something. And that redemption is so beautiful for what they've done, such encouragement and so excited for them. Well, well done, you guys. Well done.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's one of the best times of the year, but it's also the time of year when people let their money get totally out of control. Everywhere you look, it's just buy, buy, buy. So you start swiping the credit card, and suddenly it's January and you got a mess on your hands. Don't let that happen. Tell your money where to go instead of wondering where it it went with our budgeting app, EveryDollar. EveryDollar not only helps you stay on budget and in control of your spending this holiday season, it also helps you find extra margin in your budget, thousands of dollars of it. And every day will coach you to build better money habits and attack your goals faster than ever. So while most people will be starting in January with a taste of regret in their mouth, you'll already be working, winning. Start every dollar for free by downloading the app today.

[Rachel Cruze]

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 14:23. In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty. An Lander said no one. Nobody ever drowned in his own sweat.

[Jade Warshaw]

Oh, boy.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, what a picture that is. But I guess it's true. I guess it's true. Work hard, people. Work hard.

[Jade Warshaw]

Very dramatic. The grit.

[Rachel Cruze]

The grit is good. All right, let's go to Lisa in Charlotte. Hi, Lisa. Welcome to the show.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, absolutely. How can we help you today?

[Jade Warshaw]

So my husband and I, we have between our Roth IRA and our 401K.

[Caller]

He has 535,000 and I have 275,000 plus 200 in a CD.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I think we messed up during the pandemic when at the beginning, when it took like a big dive, I got nervous because I'm on disability right now. I got. I have lupus back.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Caller]

And so we're not contributing to our IRA anymore. And so what we I did is I moved everything. I kept it in the Roth IRA and mutual funds, but I took it out of the stock market.

[Jade Warshaw]

So it's kind of been sitting there.

[Caller]

Earning a little less interest. So I'm wondering if we messed up for retirement or if we should move it back into the stock market at our age or what we should do.

[Jade Warshaw]

So the 535 and the 275 are no longer invested?

[Caller]

Invested they are, but not in the stock market. They're more in a secure. I put them in the CDs. So 4 and 5 year CDs. So they're earning a 4 and 5% interest.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, yeah. Okay. So not to just lay it on, Lisa, but did you make a mistake? The answer would be yes, because I just want to use this as a teaching example that what you did, you know, is pretty normal people do freak out if they start to see a dip in the market. They're like, oh, dear God. And they pull their money out or they put it somewhere else. And what we always say is, the only person that gets hurt on a roller coaster ride is the person that jumps off. And essentially, Lisa, you did, you jumped off. Because the last few years have been 23%. I mean, it's been like, it's been crazy. So it would have been. I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, seven times, you know, what you've been making is what you would have earned. So did you make a mistake? I'm gonna say yes, because I think long term investing, you just stay in. Whether it goes down and get freaked out, just stay on the roller coaster because it's going to go up and down. It's what the market does. But when you pull your money out, if you pull it all the way out, which I can't tell if quite what you. I don't know. I don't know exactly how that transfer.

[Jade Warshaw]

Looks, but I didn't pull it out.

[Rachel Cruze]

Where I'm paying taxes on it. Yes, it's still under the 401k in the money marketplace. But what. But what's difficult now is when. Because I want to say, yes, put your money back in. You're now going to be buying back in at the top where you would have, you know, you would have lost all those returns. So it's not too late. We can, you can still get Becca and Lisa. So I didn't mean to harp on you, but I did want to make that a kind of a teaching point because what you did was very common. People do that a lot. But just not to freak out next time because, you know, you guys did lose out on a, on a, on a lot of interest that you could have earned. So what I would do is, yes, I would get back in. How old are you guys?

[Caller]

Guys, I'm 54 and my husband's 59 and 59.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, perfect. Yes.

[Caller]

That's what we're worried about is retire, retirement. Like we don't want to go back in and then worry a little bit about, about that. But our house is almost, is almost paid off. Paid off.

[Jade Warshaw]

So we feel better about that.

[Caller]

But we still, we owe 168,000 left on your house.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. How much do you guys make a year?

[Caller]

So again, right now I'm not.

[Jade Warshaw]

So he makes 122,000 and I get.

[Caller]

About 30,000 with my Social Security.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, that's right. Okay, perfect. Okay, that's great. So you guys, it's about 150 and then. Yeah. So I'm just thinking, you know, at 54, 59. I mean, you guys, you know, I mean, it could be another 30 years, 35 years that you guys live, you know, if you're, if you guys are, you know, healthy and doing all the things. So that's why you still have a long term, if you want will time to get back in the market that even if it does dip for a little bit, a few years, think you got, you got, you know, just picture 30 years as an example of what you guys have to kind of ride this out. Yeah.

[Jade Warshaw]

And am I, if I'm understanding the numbers right, you have a million dollars, right. You had 5, 35, 275 and 200.

[Caller]

900 our house is worth and we owe just 168 left at two and a half percent interest. So I haven't been paying that much extra on that right now just because our interest is so.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right. But just the CDs alone, the 535, the 275 and the 200. Did I get those numbers right?

[Caller]

Yes, yes.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah. So if you're saying, hey, today I'm going to plug in $1 million, that's not bad, right? I mean, of course, keep three to six months out in cash, but you're going to be just fine.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Put that money.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I would. Lisa, I think you're a little hesitant to even get back in the market. But I would. Because if you think about even in your house, you got to get aggressive on that house. They say Even if it's 2 1/2 percent, you're making 3% on your CDs. You guys are, you know, you're paying what you're making and you're kind of washed. Yes, you're, you're. You have a wash right now. So, yes, I would be aggressive on paying off the house. And then we just talked to a couple. We literally just had debt free scream that they, you know, they paid theirs off, which is amazing. So. So it can be done. So I do that. And then I would, I would even sit down. We have great smartvestor pros there in Charlotte. And I would sit down with someone and look to see and tell them about. About, you know, a little bit of your nerves around the. You feel like it's risky, like you don't want to lose your retirement. You know, these kind of things. Because a lot of people can feel that way. But what I want you to do is listen to someone that you trust, someone that you like. You know, find a financial planner that you actually, I think, personally enjoy. Because I think it's important that you trust them and let them show you some of these numbers and to be able to say, hey, here's the facts of the track record of the markets on the. On. Yeah, with the COVID I mean, what was the stats we. We taught on this? Gosh, it's been five years now, but when it went down, I think it only took nine months to get back to where it was and beyond. You know what I mean? So, like, even that was a quick. When you look at these massive, you know, 0807 was a little bit different. But you look at, you know, things like Covid September 11, you look at these major events that do take kind of a dip, but then a lot of them return so quickly that the news doesn't talk about it, that it all gets back up, you know, within a few months. So I do want you to do some digging and some learning when it comes to it. Cause it is worth it, Lisa. You guys still have plenty of years ahead of you that you guys could really be making some gains when it comes to your money versus it just sitting in CDs. I mean, honestly, I think that's one of it'll be a detriment long term.

[Jade Warshaw]

And I think what will help you with your fear is play it out not just the way it went down, but play it out in your mind what would have happened if you hadn't made that error. And then you'll see.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, gosh, the juxtaposition.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. And you'll. I think that'll help with some of the nerves to say, well, everybody who stayed in is actually doing better ahead. Right. So.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep.

[Caller]

So, yeah, as far as the house goes, you do recommend paying? Because I have money in a cd. I could.

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes.

[Caller]

When that expires, I could just pay the house. But I was thinking since the interest rate was low. Okay.

[Jade Warshaw]

No, I would do it.

[Caller]

You recommend?

[Jade Warshaw]

Yes. You got to account for the piece that, the piece. Part of that. You guys are, you know, your husband's about to be in a city 60s. There's nothing better than having no payments in the world and owning the place where you live in.

[Caller]

Okay, great.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep. Absolutely. Thanks, Lisa, for the call. We, we appreciate it. Yeah, there is that house portion is. It's an interesting one because I think every single person we've talked to. Jade, that sounds extreme because we've talked to a lot. Yeah. Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people that have paid off their home at events or been here on the debt free stage or contacting us on, on social or something to let us know. I mean, I have not gotten one message or one comment that someone who pays off their house regrets it.

[Jade Warshaw]

That's right. No one has ever said, man, I.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wish I had my mortgage. I wish I still had my mortgage. Oh, I just wish I still had my mortgage. Because here's the thing too. You can always go back and get another mortgage if you want. You can go back and borrow on your house.

[Jade Warshaw]

Right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Once it's paid off. So. And from a mathematical standpoint, you know, the game is that people play that I can make more in the market than once. What I'm actually, you know, invested in a 2 1/2% interest rate, but I could be making 15% in the market. You know, my gosh, like I have this huge spread, but what doesn't. Yeah. What you can't calculate, what you can't put in a spreadsheet or a formula is that peace of mind of knowing that my house, I don't owe anyone anything. And there's something so powerful about the autonomy of our money.

[Jade Warshaw]

Absolutely. And then I think about, I mean, this is just worst case scenario, but I think about the person who, who doesn't pay off their house and they go into retirement. And suppose you go into retirement in a really down or really low year. Yes. Now, you've got less money in your accounts currently and you've got your mortgage and this whole life of debt to keep up. So there are things to think about.

[Rachel Cruze]

Absolutely. Such a great point. But, yeah, Lisa, thanks for the call. And I think that's a great you're a great example of what people are feeling and thinking sometimes. And so I really appreciate you calling in. All right, Jade, thanks for the show as always. Thanks to our audience that always comes and visits us. We so appreciate you guys there in the lobby. Thanks to everyone in the booth. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.