"I’m 50 With No Retirement Living Paycheck-to-Paycheck"

Summary

The Ramsey Show (Jan 19, 2026)

Episode Title: “I’m 50 With No Retirement Living Paycheck-to-Paycheck”
Hosts: Ken Coleman & George Kamel (plus appearances by Dave Ramsey)

Overview

This episode of The Ramsey Show deals with tough financial questions from callers in all walks of life—stuck in overwhelming debt, facing late starts on retirement, dealing with family financial drama, and wrestling with major life purchases. The overarching theme is hope: through real numbers, actionable strategies, and tough love, listeners are reminded it’s never too late to change their financial stories. Ken, George, and Dave offer humor, empathy, and direct advice on topics like debt snowballing, budgeting, family boundaries, car buying, and more.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. “I’m 50, No Retirement, Living Paycheck-to-Paycheck” (Caller: Ann)

[01:03] – [09:01]

Situation:

• Ann, age 50, has no retirement savings, a strained relationship with money, $25K in debt (medical bills & payday loans), high rent situation, and a car payment.
• She brings home $2,800/month, rents a three-bedroom house, and has chronic health issues.

Main Advice & Action Plan:

• "It's possible." (Ken, [02:05])
• Immediate Goals:
  • Drastically cut monthly expenses.
  • Sell the 2022 Kia K5 and buy a cheaper car, freeing up $450/month.
  • Downsize housing: take on two roommates or move, reducing rent from $1,500 to ~$500.
  • Cut extraneous expenses (e.g., cable).
  • Use freed-up cash for debt snowball ($1,500/month = debt-free in about two years).
  • Get a second job for extra income.

Memorable Quotes:

• “You just cut $1,000 off your rent. And if you sell the car, you just cut $500 there. That’s $1,500 extra dollars a month.”
  — George [07:42]
• “You’re $41,000 in debt. If you could throw $1,500 at the debt, you’re done in 27 months.”
  — George [08:13]

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2. Student Loan Drama: A Mother-in-Law Mess (Caller: Samantha)

[10:45] – [19:49]

Situation:

• Samantha and her new husband discover his mom took out federal loans in his name for his college, promised to pay, but stopped, tanking his credit.
• Mom refuses to give up paying, yet continues to “forget.”
• The couple is planning to buy a house; credit issues are in the way.

Main Advice:

• Take over the payments yourselves. Boundaries > awkwardness. Protect your new family’s future credit/financial plans.
• List all debts, smallest to largest (including the “surprise” student loan), and attack with the debt snowball method.
• Don’t wait for Mom to “remember.”
• Accept the emotional side: shame and pride are involved, but clarity and boundaries win.

Notable Moment:

• “I think she wants you to forcefully take this thing… She’s embarrassed. Her resisting is really not resisting.”
  — Ken [14:10]
• “You need to take over these payments... It’s hurting your household.”
  — George [16:17]

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3. To Buy, Rent, or Wait? Big Home Sale Windfall (Caller: Tiffany)

[22:10] – [31:05]

Situation:

• Tiffany & husband are moving back to Charlotte after lucrative home sale; $300K cash to use.
• Unsure about buying in desired school zone (home values stagnant/underwater, dislike area), versus renting, versus buying elsewhere.

Main Advice:

• Buy, but go small and cheap. Since it’s temporary (until kid finishes high school):
  • Prioritize cash purchase—no new mortgage.
  • Don’t get emotionally or financially overextended for temporary situation.
  • Consider townhome or small home for 5–7 years.
  • Focus on areas that will hold or increase in value for easy resale.
  • Enjoy the margin: invest the difference and prep for next dream (coastal home).

Fun Exchange:

• “Let me say this, Tiffany, so you don’t have to. We’re doing this for Kiddo… but you don’t like that area very much.”
  — Ken [26:00]
• “I’d go smaller and cheaper than you think. Because you’re only doing this for a season.”
  — Ken [26:17]

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4. Special Expenses, Savings Priorities & Family Disagreements

Selected Segments

How Much Should I Spend On a Vacation? (Madison, [33:55] – [37:28])

• Context: 15th anniversary vacation, debt-free but tight savings due to orthodontics and 5 kids.
• Both hosts encourage guilt-free spending:
  • Budget for it in advance.
  • Milestone moments justify some splurging, especially when the rest of life is on track.

“The kids’ teeth can be straightened later!”
— Ken, [36:07]

Should I Use My Savings to Pay My Taxes or My Credit Card Debt? (Gina, [37:30] – [40:43])

• Advice: If you’re 1099/self-employed, keep that tax money cash on hand until taxes are done. Prioritize IRS before debts.

Parent Co-Signing & Propping Up Adult Children (Jeff, [65:41] – [74:55])

• Issue: Co-signed and are propping up daughter for house payment, but it’s unsustainable.
• Advice: Temporary help is fine, but set boundaries—don’t let “help” become a financial pit. Sell the house, help daughter reset somewhere she can afford.

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5. Quick Hits & Practical Advice

• Buying/Selling Cars:

  • Don’t have more than 50% of your annual income tied up in vehicles, RVs, or boats ([83:25])
  • Always buy used, pay cash when you’re able, and only upgrade when you’re financially strong.

• Inherited Mutual Funds vs. Mortgage Payoff:

  • When nearly done with mortgage and have extra funds, pay it off with cash flow unless there’s a pressing reason for immediate payoff.

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Notable Quotes

• “You are driving your retirement right now. Those cars were your retirement fund, but you decided you wanted a nice car instead.”
  — George, to car owner with $1,700/mo payments, [102:38]
• “If you’re going to help, it should be temporary, intentional, conditional.”
  — George, on helping adult children, [74:02]
• “Your dreams are going to change. Your city could change. But in the meantime, just stack as much cash as you can.”
  — George, to single saver waiting years to buy a house, [113:27]

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Memorable Moments & Host Banter

• Ken v. George on Trucks: [77:14] – [83:07]
  Found a true Ramsey millionaire driving an old Ford Ranger—“This is the millionaire you don’t see coming!”
• Condor RV brainstorm: [57:01+], seasonal Christmas bar fantasy.
• On financial help:
  “You want this to be a safety net, not a hammock. And it’s quickly turning into the latter.” — George [74:50]

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Timestamps for Major Themes

• 01:03 — Ann: 50, no retirement, heavy debt/action plan.
• 10:45 — Samantha: Mother-in-law student loan trap.
• 22:10 — Tiffany: Big move, big windfall—buy or rent?
• 33:55 — Madison: How much can we spend on vacation?
• 37:30 — Gina: Should I pay the IRS or my credit card?
• 44:30 — Tim: Fighting erroneous medical bills in collections.
• 65:41 — Jeff: The parent’s dilemma—helping adult kids or enabling?
• 77:14 — Ken (SF): When is it time to upgrade the beater truck?
• 100:04 — Steve: Deep debt, business struggles, car payment woes.
• 107:04 — Lynette: Paid off $37K, what’s next after debt?
• 117:14 — Anna: How to increase family income & husband’s tech career.

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, direct, compassionate, and humorous.
• Hosts blend empathy ("You're in the right place") with tough love ("Sell the truck, sell the car, set boundaries").
• Regular use of analogies and storytelling to break up heavy topics.

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Final Takeaways

• No matter your age or mistakes, financial freedom is possible with discipline and clear steps.
• Don’t enable family members with endless, undefined support.
• Communicate and agree on all joint financial agreements — from renovations to debts to inheritances.
• Big financial moves—house, car, major expenses—should be governed by math, not emotion.
• Celebrate wins, no matter how small; enjoy guilt-free spending when you’re financially secure.

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Recommended Resources Mentioned:

• EveryDollar app (budgeting/coaching)
• Dave Ramsey’s “Baby Steps” Method
• Books: "Breaking Free From Broke," "Find the Work You’re Wired to Do," "The Proximity Principle"

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This summary covers the episode’s core advice, memorable exchanges, and vital moments, perfect for anyone needing a roadmap through their own financial overwhelm—or just some encouragement, Ramsey-style.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[Ken Coleman]

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show alongside the Natalie attired George Camel bringing out another beautiful winter shacket. Love seeing the shacket make an appearance. Just happy to be alongside my good friend George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman and we have a fantastic studio audience today out in the lobby. I got to tell you, they just look like they're excited to be alive and here. And so we're grateful to see you all as well. Handsome audience out there, George.

[George Kamel]

Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's go to Ann, who starts us off in Cincinnati, Ohio. Ann, how can we help?

[Caller]

So I am 50 years old. I have no retirement, no savings, nothing. I am not, I'll be honest, I'm not good with money. Growing up, I don't have a relationship with my family. Never been taught how to manage money, how to budget. And I would like to start 2026 doing that. And I'm just overwhelmed with how to start, where to start. I know the snowball, the dead snowball. I just, you know, I also have health conditions where I was out of work for a month in October. I was in the hospital. And it's just, it's snowball and I feel like I just can't catch my breath and I don't know where to start or what to do.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, well, you came to the right place. And we're going to start with two words. It's possible because you understand the baby steps, but the idea of how to actually make it work for you seems like an absolute impossibility. True or false?

[Caller]

That is true.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, great. So we start with it's possible. All right, so, George, let's do our thing.

[George Kamel]

Let's get into the details.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's get some numbers.

[George Kamel]

And the fact that you even decided this at 50 is amazing because I know you think it's too late for you, but there's someone who's gonna call in probably today who goes, hey, I'm 62 and I got nothing saved. So Ann's doing great. She's got a 12 year head, and so it very much is possible. And we're going to dig into the numbers here to give you a tactical plan. So are you working full time right now?

[Caller]

Yes, I am.

[George Kamel]

Okay, what do you make? What do you bring home every month?

[Caller]

I bring home right, about 1400amonth, a pay period, which is every two weeks.

[George Kamel]

So 28?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Great. And are you renting right now?

[Caller]

I rent, yes.

[George Kamel]

What's your rent?

[Caller]

15.

[George Kamel]

Whew. Okay, so there's. I'm just throwing up the flags. Flag number one, over half of your income is going towards rent. So there's one problem to solve. We'll put a pin in that. Now, tell me about your debt. How much debt do you have?

[Caller]

My debt is medical bills. And then again, one of the worst things you could possibly do is like, payday advances with incredibly high interest rates.

[George Kamel]

What's the balances of those?

[Caller]

Balance of those is 10.10k total between.

[George Kamel]

The medical debt and payday? Okay.

[Caller]

No, between the. The medical debt is right around 15, and then the cash advances is 10.

[George Kamel]

Okay. Any other debt?

[Caller]

No, I do not have any credit cards. I don't have any of that.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you do for a living?

[Caller]

I work in a medical office building.

[Ken Coleman]

Doing what?

[Caller]

I'm kind of like a patient advocate type thing, like receptionist. I work with patients.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you hourly or is that your salary that we got from you?

[Caller]

I am hourly.

[Ken Coleman]

What is that rate?

[Caller]

2377.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And then I'm curious about your physical stuff that's going on. Are you on the other side of that? Is that going to be a lingering thing that will cause issues for you because you've mentioned it?

[Caller]

That will be something that will linger.

[Ken Coleman]

Does that affect your ability to work?

[Caller]

No. There are times I have to be off, but no.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

You're still pulling 40 hours a week and all that?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Okay, now, what other bills do you have? Because are you. Are you going, you know, kind of beyond the pale here into the red every month because you don't have enough money with the 2,800. And so that's. You're turning to payday loans to fund the gap?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Because I have electric, gas, Internet, cable, car insurance and a car payment.

[George Kamel]

Are you doing any investing right now through a retirement plan?

[Caller]

None.

[George Kamel]

Okay, good, because we gotta focus on this debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, we didn't catch the car debt. All I heard was the payday loan and medical debt. What's the car debt?

[Caller]

I apologize? The car, it's 450amonth and it's right around 16.

[Ken Coleman]

And what is it worth?

[Caller]

It's a 2022. I would say it's probably worth. I mean, I really haven't looked it up.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, homework assignment number one. Because if we can get out of this car, we just gave you over a $5,000 raise. Are you tracking with me real numbers here?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so I'm telling you, Kelly, Blue Book is what we're looking for to sell this thing. And, and to get a, you know, cheap car. So let's say you've got, I'm hoping. What kind of car is this? A 2022. What?

[Caller]

Kia K5.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And you owe 16 on it. So let's say you come away with four or five grand in equity. That's what you're doing, that's what you're putting towards another car. And now you've saved yourself 450 bucks a month immediately. Okay. For your budget's huge. And George, I'm jumping in and getting ahead of the game here.

[George Kamel]

No, this is great.

[Ken Coleman]

But what's your, what's your apartment situation? Are you in a le. When is that up?

[Caller]

It's actually a, it's a home. The three bedroom, one bath home. It is up in April.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. You don't need a three bedroom home.

[Caller]

Your guest.

[George Kamel]

Unless you have two roommates.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, fantastic. That's where I was going.

[George Kamel]

That'll cut you down to 500 bucks a month, wouldn't it? Your share?

[Caller]

Yeah, around here a one bedroom is about 1100,000 to 1100.

[Ken Coleman]

What about, what about some elderly couple or an elderly lady who's got a groom over a garage? I just believe in most cities in America you can get below 1000 bucks a month. If you find something like that. Am I, am I nuts? Okay, tell me if I'm wrong.

[George Kamel]

But the other thing is. So our parameter for your rent, your mortgage is a quarter of your after tax monthly income. And so for you, we're talking about 750 is really where you're going to max out in order to accomplish any financial goals. And so as long as you're in this lease, you're going to be stuck because you have no margin. As long as you have this car, you're going to be stuck because you have no margin. But see what we're doing and we're looking at all the things that you can actually control even though it feels like they are immovable objects. Well, I got to have a car. Yeah, but you don't need a 2022 car. You can have a 2013 instead of.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm not even driving a 2022.

[George Kamel]

I gotta have an apartment. And they're expensive. Sure, but you have three bedrooms and you only need one. So let's get two roommates, go on Facebook, find an area you know. If you're in Cincinnati, jump on, there's a Cincinnati roommate. Facebook group and vet them, interview Them meet up with them for coffee and say, hey, I'm looking for a roommate. It's going to be 500 bucks plus utilities. And all of a sudden you just cut $1,000 off your rent. And if you sell the car, you just cut $500 there. That's 1500 extra dollars a month. You would have. You understand what we just did?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

And so you're $41,000 in debt. If you could throw 1500 at the debt, you're done in 27 months if you do nothing else. And I would cut cable yesterday because we're not going to be watching the latest season of Survivor. We got to probably get a second job. On top of that, I want more.

[Ken Coleman]

Work nights and weekends, more income on top of all of this. George, what can we give her?

[George Kamel]

Every dollar is a great start. And I'm going to give you my book, Breaking free from broke. It'll the entire plan with tons of ideas to help create that margin. Hang on the line in.

[Ken Coleman]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. All right, as we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all of the junk you're carrying. You know, all those things you have to do, all those things you think you should do, all of the past hurts, all the past pains, all the past guilt and shame, all of it. When the world feels heavy, it's important to look in the mirror and consider maybe for the first time, setting down that old weight and choosing not to carry it forward into 2026. Therapy can help you identify the heavy stuff, set it down and move forward with clarity so you can focus on who you want to become in the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, check out my friends at Better Help. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the leading online therapy providers in the world. Trusted by millions, they have an average rating of 4.9 stars out of 5. And it's easy to fit into your busy schedule because it's totally online. To get started, just answer a few easy questions and BetterHelp will connect you with a licensed therapist who will fit your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can change at any time for no extra cost. You can't feel lighter without leaving behind what's been weighing you down. Go to betterhelp.com Ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com Ramsey. All right, next we go to Samantha, who's joining us in Knob, Knoxville, Tennessee. Samantha how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hi, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate you taking the time to take my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

So my husband and I got married last year and we're currently on baby step number two. I didn't think we had that much debt and so I was like, oh, we can get this paid off quick. It's going to be great. Well, when my husband graduated high school, he had an agreement with his mom that if he went to college that she would pay for it, which is amazing. I thought she must have like paid it out of pocket or got a personal loan. But it wasn't until about three months ago when my husband checked his credit score to find his credit had dropped drastically. And that's when I learned his college was paid through a federal student loan in his name and his mom had stopped making the payments. When he asked her about it, she said that she forgot about them and she would start paying them again. Well, since then she's continued to forget and I told him and she told my husband that we need to call and ask for a lower payment plan so she can afford it. I want to just take over the payments ourselves since it's his loan and pay the student loans off ourselves. But my mother in law wants to pay for it and she doesn't want us to pay them. But she keeps kind of forgetting and kind of ruining his credit score. And we're hoping to build a house soon or buy a house, but we can't do that with his credit being where it is. Although my credit is good, I still worry how it will affect, you know, us getting any sort of loan. And I'm also worried that if, you know, we pay them until or she could pay us back. I'm worried it'll become one of those like, oh, borrowing money from family type situations and it'll put a strain on the relationship overall. It just feels like a very yucky situation. So I was hoping to ask for some advice.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you think in any way that your mother in law is playing some passive aggressive game here?

[Caller]

I don't want to say that, no.

[Ken Coleman]

She said, hold up now see, I've been doing this too long. So now you just told me something without telling me something. I'm not saying that she is. I'm feeling that it's possible. And when I asked you if you think she's doing that, you went, well, I don't want to say that. But that to me says you think it's very possible. And I think it's possible in other Words. Here's what's not computing for me. She keeps forgetting. And then she reaches out and says, hey, can you call them and see if they can lower the payment? So a person who says, I don't think she's forgetting. And then I also don't buy the idea that when you said to her, well, we'll take over and we'll pay it. And she goes, no, no, no, no, I want to pay it. I don't think she wants to pay it.

[George Kamel]

And I think.

[Ken Coleman]

And I actually don't think. And George, you can come over the top ropes here. And Samantha, you can tell me I'm wrong, but I'm giving you my gut read here. I think she wants you to forcefully take this thing. Like, I think she wants you to take it, but she feels shame. She's embarrassed. I think there's a lot of emotion going into this. And her resisting is really not resisting. She wants you to be. And when I say forceful, I don't mean ugly. I just mean I think she wants you to go, no, listen, listen, it's okay. You've been great. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're going to take it, Mom. It's my loan. We're going to do it. I think she wants you to do that. I don't believe that if you were to do that, it's going to break the relationship at all.

[Caller]

Sure, that's my take. And that's what I was thinking too. I was thinking that, you know, if anything, it helps her out, obviously, a hundred percent. I think there, there might be like a sense of pride there.

[Ken Coleman]

100%.

[Caller]

That's like, hey, no, I want to take care of my son. I know that it was a very hard transition for her when we got married. She had a really hard time with it. And.

[Ken Coleman]

She had a hard time when you guys got married.

[Caller]

Well, she just. Not like a hard time. Like, I mean, we get along and I go over there every week. You know, we're great, we're very civil and all that, but she just kept telling my husband that it just felt like she lost him to me and all of this. And so it was very hard for me to.

[Ken Coleman]

There's now deeper stuff going on now. I know I'm right now.

[George Kamel]

Now.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not a feeling. Everything I just said is completely fact. You could chisel it in stone. This is a passive aggressive thing. And you guys have got to be the adults here and create the boundary. I'll shut up because I've now said my piece, George. But boy, Do I know I'm right?

[George Kamel]

Now let's, let's put some tactical pieces on this. You need to take over these payments and go, well, we didn't know we were in debt, but we're in debt. And that means we're not ready to buy a home. And that stinks. And you have every right to be angry and upset. Upset and frustrated with mom for her irresponsibility. Frustrated with your husband for not knowing all these years that he had these debts in his name, which, by the way, if they're in his name, he signed some paperwork and so.

[Caller]

Sure. Well, I think what it was is, you know, he went into college right after high school and, you know, he was just a kid basically, as we all are. And I mean, and it's fair to trust. To trust your parents, Trust the people. I mean, I remember when I got my student loans, they were just like, yeah, sign here, you're good to go. And I was like, oh, okay. You know, and I did it because that was just, you know, what they told me to do.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So I just think, you know, and I don't like that about student loans loans. We just sign, you know, basically everything away when we just out of high school.

[Ken Coleman]

Preaching to the choir here, Samantha.

[George Kamel]

There's a lot of, there's a lot of predatory stuff going on there. That's for another day. But right now the issue is mom can't pay. And you need to take this on because it's hurting your household. So now it's about protecting your household.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And so you don't need to have a blow up conversation with mom. You just need to say, hey, we're going to take over the payments. Thanks for what you've done so far. We got this.

[Caller]

Yeah, absolutely.

[George Kamel]

And now how much, how much do you have left?

[Caller]

So I'd like to say I also have student loans. He has 17, around $17,000 in student loans. I personally have $12,000 in student loans.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I, my student loans right now are in forbearance. They're in some sort of save plan which some federal court, you know, hasn't decided on the payment plans. And so they are. Every time I've called, they're like, no, no payments are necessary. I log my federal student loan account and whatnot, and it says no payments are due until 2027. But I was looking at it the other day and I noticed that it's still inquiring, like accruing interest.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, forbearance accrues interest. I don't know you missed that in the fine print. But that's the issue with these save plans. People think, oh my gosh, thank you, government as your balloon, your balance balloons, unbeknownst to you.

[Caller]

So that's like a very low payment. But it's our biggest. Like currently, other than his student loans, that's our biggest debt.

[George Kamel]

What other debts do you have? You got 1712. What else?

[Caller]

So I've got my vehicle has a little over $5,000 left on it, which I plan to pay off in a couple of months. And then his has 9,000. And then I have a credit card that has right at 9,000. And then we have furniture that we bought when we were freshly newlywed. I know, it's kind of a stupid thing.

[George Kamel]

How long you been married now?

[Caller]

We got married in May of 2025, so not even a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, my gosh. You guys are truly newlyweds.

[Caller]

Yes, truly we are. And I'm trying to do it the right way and get everything.

[George Kamel]

What's your household income?

[Caller]

Yeah, so we bring in $7,000 a month.

[George Kamel]

Okay, good. So here's the deal. You're going to list all these debts out. You're going to have a come to Jesus meeting tonight and list out all the debts, smallest to largest. Break them out individually, not 12,000 student loans, but hey, there's seven with all these different balances. I don't care whose debt it is. We're going to list them all, smallest to largest balance, and then we're going to attack the little one. Do you guys have anything in savings right now?

[Caller]

Yes, we have about $4400 in savings at the moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

Great.

[George Kamel]

So baby step, $1000 starter emergency fund, which means 3400 can go towards knocking out a few of these debts.

[Caller]

Sure.

[George Kamel]

And do you still have the credit card open? Is it in your wallet right now?

[Caller]

Yes, but I don't use it. I have not used it. It's already cut up. Last year I actually led a Ramsey class and I taught a Ramsey class and I set up my credit card then.

[Ken Coleman]

Good.

[George Kamel]

Okay. Have you guys made progress since then on this, on these debts?

[Caller]

Yes, we have.

[George Kamel]

Okay, what's been your plan thus far? Like, are you doing the debt snowball? Are you doing an every dollar budget?

[Caller]

Yeah, we're doing the debt snowball. My bank doesn't connect to the EveryDollar app for some reason, so. But I've been. I have a notes app and I check our transactions every single night and I take it out of each. Each line item.

[George Kamel]

Okay, well, this Was one of these, you know, you had a pile of debt and now we just added to it and so we just. It's just going to delay the, the debt free journey. But at least you are clear on where you stand.

[Caller]

Absolutely. Yeah. I really appreciate your help.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for calling. And I was thinking when you were talking to her about the, you know, the government trusting the delay, you're like, oh, thank you, government.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

It reminded me of the old phrase, politicians are the only people that when their hands are cold, they put their hands in your pocket.

[George Kamel]

Oh, that's a good analogy right there.

[Ken Coleman]

I love that. Sorry, I just had to get that out. That's just an equal opportunity offensive statement. I don't care what party you're in, they all, they just put their hands in your pocket.

[Dave Ramsey]

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch. And.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too.

[Ken Coleman]

They don't know what to do next.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here and, you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man.

[Ken Coleman]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

To just miss you.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, George, we're going to your old neck of the woods. Boston, Massachusetts, Tiffany's waiting for us there. Tiffany, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey there.

[Ken Coleman]

Hi.

[Caller]

Funny. My. We moved to Boston in 2022 from Charlotte, North Carolina, and we planned on staying here, you know, for the long haul, but we got calls that my job was being moved back to Charlotte, North Carolina, and my husband got offered a leadership role with his group in Charlotte.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

That worked out.

[Caller]

What are the chances? Within the same day, within an hour, you know, let's sell the house and move back to Boston. I mean, move back to Charlotte with our family and whatnot. So we're walking away with about probably close to a little over 300,000 from selling our home. And I'm torn on what to do next. We're limited in our buying pool because of schools. My son's getting ready to enter middle school. We don't want to, you know, we rather bring him back to where he knows everybody and whatnot. That I don't see myself or see us staying there after he graduates high school. So I was crunching some numbers over the last week or so, and I'm like, does it make sense to buy another house in Charlotte or to rent because, you know, and maybe invest or maybe buy a house that's maybe we see more long term or, you know, on the coast or whatnot. So I'm kind of torn on which direction we should take.

[Ken Coleman]

How will that. A couple quick clarifying questions. He's just starting middle school. So what are we saying?

[Caller]

Five years, six years exactly Seven. I'm thinking like six to seven years.

[Ken Coleman]

Six to seven. And then. Okay, let's fast forward neighborhood. Okay, great. Let's fast forward. Fast forward. It's his senior year, final semester, and you guys are moving to wherever or you're in preparation to move wherever. How does that affect your jobs? Can you do those Jobs remote or you guys check cashing out of that too?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I guess it just depends on. So we make very good money. We'll be actually getting an increase when we move back to Charlotte. And cost of living is drastically different there.

[Ken Coleman]

What will your combined incomes be?

[Caller]

Yeah, it will be about 350.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. All right, keep going. So. So yeah, can you stay with this company or how's that work?

[Caller]

Yeah, we can stay with the company. We, you know, work for major financial institutions. They're all around, you know, the country. You know, my husband loves the job, so even we're okay with even staying in North Carolina, staying in Charlotte, but maybe just not that where we, you know, where you.

[Ken Coleman]

Where you would be for five to seven Years. I totally understand.

[George Kamel]

So you got to stomach it for seven years so that he can go to the. You want them to go to, Right?

[Ken Coleman]

It's a good question. I'm gonna. I'm gonna defer. I've got an opinion, but I'm gonna defer to my financial guru buddy next to me here.

[George Kamel]

Here's how you're. You have a strong financial position. You guys have no debt and savings, and you'll have 300 grand.

[Caller]

Yep.

[George Kamel]

I would buy a house, and I would pay it off. You have a car loan.

[Caller]

Yeah, we do have two cars.

[George Kamel]

I would clean that up as soon as possible. Probably before you sell the house with your. In your fantastic income, just knock it out. And once you guys, you know, sell the house, I would just move as soon as you could and, you know, to buy a house and you put 300,000 down. What is a house going to cost in that area?

[Caller]

Yeah. So we were looking in, like, the 400 range. 400 to 500.

[George Kamel]

Oh, okay.

[Caller]

We didn't want to go anywhere crazy, like here in Boston, where we have, you know, we're in the 1.3. We're looking this up, where I was.

[George Kamel]

Like, I'm trying to split the difference. Could you get a 550, $600,000 home that you love that you could see yourself in for a decade?

[Caller]

Well, see, I don't like the houses that much.

[Ken Coleman]

No. I knew it.

[Caller]

No, you said in Boston you hate.

[George Kamel]

Oh, you're.

[Ken Coleman]

She doesn't.

[George Kamel]

Let me.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me say this, Tiffany, so you don't have to. We're doing this for Kiddo because of his friends. But she don't like that area very much.

[George Kamel]

What area is Kiddo?

[Ken Coleman]

Am I right?

[Caller]

You are, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

No, don't buy. I would buy the cheapest house possible is what I was gonna say 100%. I'd go smaller and cheaper than you'd even think just because it's temporary. But I think it's long enough that buying does make sense. I would never rent that long. So I'm with George on that. But I was thinking let's go as small and as cheap as you can stomach, because you're only doing this.

[George Kamel]

Tiffany's going to call back in two years and say, I hate this.

[Ken Coleman]

No, she's not.

[George Kamel]

No, she's not out of here.

[Ken Coleman]

No, she's focused. She's thinking about the next house.

[George Kamel]

The other thing to think about is. Is resale value of what is an area that actually is going to grow and appreciate. So this is a good financial decision. As well.

[Caller]

That's what concerns me. So I've been doing a lot of. I like to crunch numbers and I was looking at the resale value right now. Everyone in that area who purchased during the boom of 2019 are upside down on their homes. So I'm like, what is going on.

[George Kamel]

In this area then? This is the area with great, A great school that you want your kid to go to.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't think it's a great school.

[George Kamel]

It's just the school.

[Caller]

He knows it is a good school. I'll call it a good school. It is a great school, highly rated.

[Ken Coleman]

Wait a second. You can't call it good and great.

[George Kamel]

I just feel like kids are resilient. If it's a wonderful neighborhood with a great school, he can flourish.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm playing with you, Tiffany. I'm having fun with you. It's, it's, I'm having a blast today. Here's the deal. Because of that, I, I believe that you should go smaller and cheaper. In other words. So let's say the top, the top level houses are 400, right?

[Caller]

Closer to the eight. Oh, I was thinking the four. That's the cheaper. The 450 is what I was thinking.

[Ken Coleman]

But I know, but you're saying those are the ones where people under, they're, they're underwater. Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying like, what is it just you hubs and the kid?

[Caller]

Yeah, we, we're small. We're three.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm going to tell you something.

[Caller]

I don't even want a big house.

[Ken Coleman]

See. Okay, listen, I'm going to tell you something. And this is me. And that's what Dave has trained us to do, is to answer these questions obviously within our principles. But, but how we would do it, and I'm, if I'm you, I would. Because this is a limited amount of time and your mind is already on the coast. I mean you, I, you got the four S's in your head. I think. Sun, sand, se, salt. Am I right?

[Caller]

Yep.

[Ken Coleman]

Come on. You're my kind of person. That's how I like to roll.

[Caller]

That's why I moved to a cute little coastal town outside of Boston.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. By the way, you're completely addicted. Once that sea water that gets in your, in your, you can't go inland. So here's the deal. Because of that George, Tiffany, I, if it were me, I'd be buying like a town home in a decent area and I'm going to small two bedroom. If somebody wants to stay with us, kick the kid out. He can do an air mattress. I mean, that's me. And I know that that's. But my. If my wife were here, she'd be like, you're so intense on all your decisions. But I don't need four bedrooms.

[Caller]

And that's what. It's so funny because we went from 4000 square foot home in Charlotte because that's how they build them.

They build them huge.

We went to a cute little 2,000 square foot cave, and I told my husband. I'm like, I love it. I love the cute little cave.

[George Kamel]

What does your husband think? We haven't brought him into the picture. Does he have opinions or is he like, whatever you want, honey. He.

[Caller]

He's so easy. He's excited. We're going back to North Carolina to be closer to family. We're looking in the same neighborhood as his sister and their kids. So the kids are all going to be back together playing. So it's all positive. It's just not where I. I've never felt Charlotte. I'm from New York. Never felt Charlotte.

[Ken Coleman]

But you're. But you're a good mom. There's no question. I think God's hand is all over this. I don't think this is the universe. I'm just going to say that. And I think that because of this, if you take that 300,000, you need to pay the car off and whatever's left. Get a cheaper house, smaller. Get a good real estate pro, ramseysolutions.com agents and get somebody who knows what you're trying to do. And I think you put a huge chunk down knowing you're going to get all that back. I think you're going to get some appreciation in seven years, but there's no risk. And you've just lowered your payments. And with that combined $350,000 salary, George, they're socking money away like crazy. And then she goes to the coast.

[Caller]

Yeah, we're going from an $8,000 a month mortgage to probably when I was crunching numbers, like 2,800. What do we do with that? We've never really. You know, it's interesting to go to the reverse cost.

[Ken Coleman]

It ain't 2,800. If you buy what I'm telling you to buy, you buy some $250,000 townhome or $300,000 townhome. With 200,000 down, I'm stacking money for the coast.

[George Kamel]

I'm like an animal.

[Ken Coleman]

For seven years. I'm thinking of the coast. I'm thinking of the coast, and I'm Stacking money like crazy.

[George Kamel]

You stack 100 grand for seven years and invest that, you'll have over a million bucks to put towards this coastal home that you guys are dreaming of. So I think you're on the right track. I would just say let's go with some research and some and patience and approach pro. If you're waking up tired every morning, you don't need more caffeine. You need better rest. And that's why Casper mattresses are engineered to help you sleep deeper and wake up refreshed. And this isn't just one George's opinion. Thousands of five star reviews prove it. Plus Casper mattresses ship free and come with a hundred night trial. So you've got nothing to lose. Sleep is a must and you deserve the best. So go to Casper.com Ramsey and use promo code Ramsey for 25% off mattresses, off everything else. That gives you up to 1,200 bucks off the snowmax mattress, which is the exact one I sleep on Every night. That's Casper.com Ramsey code. Ramsey exclusions apply.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. If you're working the baby steps, the best way to do it is by using EveryDollar. Now it's more than just a budgeting app. Now we've built the baby steps into the app and it has a coaching component. So it's a whole different product. Fantastic. You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations for your situation and you can get coaching. Did I tell you that in the app? It's unbelievable. So it's like having one of us walk with you every day. I don't know what that would be like without having to. I think I would probably be a lot more fun to walk with than George because he's just so neurotic.

[George Kamel]

I feel like you have a probably a mall walker's pace, which I think is a good pace.

[Ken Coleman]

It is. If you're walking with me, you're going to be a little tired, but you're going to feel good about it afterwards. If you're walking with George, you're going to be reminded of all the things that could go wrong in the world. Is that fair?

[George Kamel]

That's encouraging. Yeah, that's accurate.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I'm kidding. I love George. Folks. It's just a joke, just sarcasm.

[George Kamel]

We're actual friends.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. You can start every dollar for free today. Downloading it in the app store or Google Play. Let's go to Madison. Who? Oh, this is where George went to college. I believe in Mobile, Alabama. Madison. How can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. Glad to talk to you. So I have kind of a calculation question. How do you determine or calculate what is appropriate to spend on a vacation? And I'll add the caveat that this would be for our 15th anniversary.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, these are some of my favorite calls. I'm gonna let George lead because there's a good chance I disagree with him.

[George Kamel]

Well, let's. Let's check off a few boxes. Are you completely debt free outside of a mortgage?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

And do you have an emergency fund saved up?

[Caller]

We do.

[Ken Coleman]

Great.

[George Kamel]

Okay. And how much are you planning to spend on this vacation? If you could just dream it up, how much would it cost?

[Caller]

Well, that's a dangerous question because I'm both the nerd and the spender. So they're free spirit.

[George Kamel]

Which means you've done the research.

[Ken Coleman]

So let's not dream it up.

[George Kamel]

Up.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's just think it. You've been thinking about it. What's, what's the range that you think this is going to cost?

[Caller]

So somewhere in the 5500-8000 range. All in like flights, food, coffee at the airport, like everything.

[Ken Coleman]

How many days?

[Caller]

Seven.

[George Kamel]

Whole.

[Caller]

Because you know, 15 years deserves a whole week.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let me tell you. Okay. And what's your income again? Did you tell us this already?

[Caller]

No, I didn't.

[George Kamel]

Work.

[Caller]

We're about to have an income change, so I'll tell you kind of in a couple months where we'll be. We will be at combined 135.

[George Kamel]

Awesome. And when is this trip going to happen?

[Caller]

October.

[George Kamel]

Okay. And do you have the money now or are you guys going to sort of save up with a sinking fund to get there?

[Caller]

Kind of a.

Both.

And so we're in baby step four. We're investing 15%. Everything extra is going to orthodontics or something comes up with the house. We have the cash on hand to save up, so we've got a little bit of it saved up enough to get the tickets at this point.

[George Kamel]

Great. So you can sort of start that, start the cash flow and then continue saving for the actual kind of spending on the trip and all that.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

And there's no budgetary strain between now and October to save the rest of the money.

[Caller]

It's. It feels tight, but maybe it's just because it's a decision between. Well, we don't have a lot in the 529. Do we put more there? We have five kids, so there's a.

[Ken Coleman]

You definitely need the seven day vacation. All right. The kids teeth can be straightened out later.

[Caller]

I Gotta tell you, that's kind of our thought.

[George Kamel]

Madison, you're going on vacation. Congratulations, George.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. I say go, and don't think twice about it. The kids will be fine.

[Caller]

Oh, I know they will. We're cashing in on the grandparent situation, so I know they'll be fine. I'm not worried about it. I don't feel any guilt or anything. It's more like.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I meant the 529. And all the things you'll make up for lost. You can make up for that. This is huge. This is a. This is a big deal, and. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

I'm excited. Well, that makes me feel better.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Very good.

[Caller]

I do. Man, I'm counting down the days.

[Ken Coleman]

By the way, where is this trip? Do we know?

[Caller]

We're looking at St. Lucia.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, you had to say it was Caribbean.

[George Kamel]

You could have started with that, and Ken would have been like, I don't care you're going.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm telling you, I'm half pirate. I love the Caribbean. I love everything about it.

[George Kamel]

If it's got Saint in front of it, count me in.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's another thing.

[George Kamel]

That's pretty much it.

[Ken Coleman]

If you just say Saint something, I'm like, yeah, sure, I'll go there. Love it, love it, love it.

[George Kamel]

Unless it's St. Louis, I guess I'm not looking forward to George my 15th anniversary.

[Ken Coleman]

Now you went and offended everybody from St. Louis.

[George Kamel]

Wonderful city. Just not where I want to go for my 15th anniversary. I think that's fair.

[Ken Coleman]

Fair point.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

You pulled that out of the ditch.

[George Kamel]

Just want to make sure the good.

[Ken Coleman]

People of St. Louis, nobody wants to go to the top of the Ark and take a selfie for your field.

[George Kamel]

I'm scared of heights, so no, thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's go to Gina in New York City. Gina, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi, guys. Thanks so much for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

I'm just wondering what I should do with this $6,000 that I have saved. Should I save it for April? Because I know I'm going to have to pay my taxes. I'm an independent contractor. Or should I apply some of it towards my $9,000 credit card?

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have an idea what you're going to owe in taxes?

[Caller]

So last year I made more money than I ever made before, and this year I made more than that. And last year I ended up having to pay 8,000. So that's why I'm like, maybe I just need to hold on to this and keep adding to it until I know exactly how much I'M going to have to pay in April.

[Ken Coleman]

Smart.

[George Kamel]

That is wise. Here's what you don't want to do is you use all this money to pay off debt and then tax time comes and you go, I owe the IRS money and I don't have it. That's a dangerous game to play. So I would. Wait, do you do your own taxes or do you work with the Tax Break Pro?

[Caller]

I work with an accountant.

[George Kamel]

Okay, great. So I would do that as soon as possible so that you know the exact number that will come out of that account on April 15th.

[Ken Coleman]

And it sounds like common sense here that it's going to be closer to the 8,000, if not more, based on what you told us.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm just, you know, with these possible, like, overtime tax write offs that they're, you know, that have been going around, the rumors. My husband, my husband has a regular job and he does overtime and he does a lot of overtime. So I'm just wondering how that's going to factor into it.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let me just stop you right there. We don't base this on rumors. Unless it's legislation that's been signed, then we're just fantasizing.

[George Kamel]

And if it is, it's probably not for the previous tax year.

[Caller]

Well, his employer actually sent him a, an email saying that in 2025, when you file taxes for this year for 2025, that there's some type of a tax benefit for all the overtime.

[George Kamel]

Okay. I would just look into that with your accountant.

[Ken Coleman]

We just want to make sure.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so homework is file your taxes with the accountant, find that number that you're going to owe, make sure you have that and anything above and beyond that. We can start attacking the credit card debt sooner. But yes, I would be just stacking cash right now and not use it all toward your debt. This is sort of a sinking fund to make sure that we are covered come time.

[Caller]

All right, thank you guys so much.

[Ken Coleman]

Absolutely. George is such a great reminder. We don't want to hear something from somebody or we read something that we're not quite sure about, and it involves taxes. We want to get on the phone today. You don't have to have your tax statements or your withholding forms to call the accountant. So she should be on the phone. And Gina, you're listening. You're calling your tax pro today day to say, I've heard this. Is this true based on this? And again, they can give you ballpark, you know, but if it's significantly more money you made last year, again, just the Way I would take it, I would put more back. I would be saving another couple grand minimum.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Pretty darn soon.

[George Kamel]

And a good reminder for anyone who is self employed, 1099, you should be paying quarterly estimated payments on the IRS website to avoid this gigantic scary bill bill that you can't afford come April. And so log in every quarter and work with your tax pro for use tax software. You can calculate how much you should be paying in taxes and just send the IRS some money ahead of time.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely true. Stacy and I, before I came to Ramsey, we had our own company and our accountant had us do that. We were paying quarterly taxes. Sometimes we'd get a little bit back if the estimate was a little bit too much. But you'd rather that.

[George Kamel]

Yeah. Well, you could get hit with penalty and fees if you don't do that too. So you want to do it by the book. And if you guys want a great tax pro, a CPA enrolled agent, we vet them. We have a whole network of tax pros to connect you to that will help you just like Ramsey would. So you can reach [e-mail] taxpro and find one in your area. Don't wait. Don't be that person who's April 13th. You're like, I guess I should probably look into getting those taxes done. I like to get them done early. I don't know if you can tell just by my face. I'm a guy who's like, let's knock this out.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And this might shock you because I tend to be a little bit seat of the pants. I as well like to as soon as we get the stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[Ken Coleman]

And get it right in.

[George Kamel]

Get in paperwork.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. We got to local tax pro and I got the double. The double whammy benefit. My tax pro works in the office for my smartvestor pro. Wow. So it's all in the same, really.

[George Kamel]

Keeping it in the family.

[Ken Coleman]

I like one stop, folks. One stop. Take care of it all.

[George Kamel]

Ken's dentist is also in there.

[Ken Coleman]

That's wonderful. And I get a haircut there. We're looking for a masseuse.

[George Kamel]

By the way.

[Dave Ramsey]

You already know the power of generosity. And the best gifts make an impact now and eternally. That's what preborn does. And you can trust them to do it. Well, they don't just offer free ultrasounds. They support pregnancy claims Clinics across the country with ultrasound machines, training grants, and evangelism tools. They're faithful with each dollar so moms in crisis can see the life in their wombs. And hear the truth that brings eternal life. Because here's the thing, when a mom sees her baby on that ultrasound screen, she chooses life 80% of the time. And your gift of just $28 covers the cost of one ultrasound. Or if you're able, you can purchase an ultrasound machine through preborn and have it placed in one of their clinics. So women will choose life for years. Your donation brings hope and truth when mothers feel alone and fear is loud. So I'm asking you to give to preborn today, even just $28 to provide one ultrasound. Go to preborn.com Ramsey or call 855-601-2229. Because every baby saved is more than a life preserved. It's a life changed. That's preborn.com Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Camel. We're excited to be here for you today. The phone number to jump in, 888-255-225-8885, 5225. Tim is up next in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Tim, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

Back in, back in 2023, my wife and I did IVF. And the IVF medical company we went through didn't have the greatest billing department. They made some errors billing us for things we didn't get done. And we addressed it with them. And now it's two years later and they have sent it to collections. We're getting calls and mail from a collection company trying to get the money back. And we let them know, hey, this hasn't been resolved on their end. We don't feel like we should pay this certain amount of money that's left over. So we kind of seem stuck. I mean, on one hand, yeah, we just paid and be done with it. But for me, no, no, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's more of an issue.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me, let me jump in to ask when you, you said just now that you resolved this when you resolved it in the past, and they somebody acknowledged that those were erroneous charges. Do you have paper record, like electronic record of all of this?

[Caller]

No, I'm sorry. What I meant was it wasn't resolved.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh.

[Caller]

And we have. So we paid what we're supposed to pay, but for the erroneous billing? We haven't paid that yet.

[George Kamel]

Who did you pay when you say you paid what you were supposed to pay, you paid the IVF clinic?

[Caller]

That's correct, yes.

[George Kamel]

Okay. And then you got a separate bill from the IVF Clinic or from. Straight from collections, because they should be ivf. Clinic should have been sending you bills first, correct?

[Caller]

Yes, they did. And we reached out to them saying, this is incorrect. It seems to be rectified. They said, oh, we'll take care of a look into it. You know, months. Months. Months went by. Pretty much years. And so now is the first time we're hearing from this collection company saying, hey, these are starting bills from the company right now.

[Ken Coleman]

My next question is, do you have records of proof? Can you prove that you never got.

[George Kamel]

These services, you never got the items?

[Ken Coleman]

Is there some paper trail between you and the clinic that would prove that you never got the services that they're billing you for?

[Caller]

So in a sense, yes. The code they put in for the services that we had, we never had done. So in a sense, yes, I have that. And maybe we can even ask the physician himself, because we know him as a friend, and he could say, yes, that was never done either.

[George Kamel]

Tim, hold.

[Ken Coleman]

No, Tim, this is like, dude, I would be talking to the doctor who's my friend.

[Caller]

Well, we actually have. And unfortunately, he doesn't work there anymore.

[Ken Coleman]

Doesn't matter. And doesn't matter. Can he validate. Can he validate on the record that these. He never treated you in the way that they build you. It's a. It's a yes or no question. What.

[Caller]

I mean, I can ask him again. That's not. Unfortunately not his area, his. His expertise of billing. We can try again to ask him.

[Ken Coleman]

No, no, no, no, no.

[George Kamel]

Again.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm a bulldog on this because you called for help. Okay? So George, back me off here. If. If I need to back off. This guy is the doctor who treated you, and you're watching wife, yes or no?

[Caller]

Yes. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And you have talked to him about this before to say they have charged us for services. And I'm not going to ask you to say what it is. It doesn't matter. But. But you've talked to him about it and said, they've charged us for this. And. And. And you didn't do that. Have you had that conversation with him?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

And what did he say? He agreed. Yes. I did not do that.

[Caller]

It was more. So it's not something that he has knowledge of as far as billing.

[Ken Coleman]

I didn't say about billing. I'm saying they've charged you for something and he has acknowledged or can acknowledge that he did not treat you for that. Forget the billing part. He can testify.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes or no?

[Caller]

No. That hasn't happened.

Happens.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

But my point is, is he could testify. He could do an affidavit. He could. He could do. I mean, if I was going to fight this, that's where I would be going. And I'm going, we know the doctor, and the doctor said he didn't do this. And so if even I got to hire a lawyer. George, not a lot of hours, but just somebody who can. Who can say, all right, we're going to fight this, and here's how. And we're going to tell the company to pound sand. We're not going to pay you for this.

[George Kamel]

Have you been in contact with the collection company? Company?

[Caller]

I have. I let them know the erroneous bills. They put it on pause.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

They came back to us about, like a month later saying, we reach out to this company, the IVF company, and here's what they say, you still owe it. So they're not really doing.

[George Kamel]

No. You need to request. You need to get a debt validation letter.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

And then you need to get the itemized bill from the clinic. That's correct.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And those two things. Things, they should be in conflict where the itemized bill says one thing that says you don't owe, and then the collection company then has to get rid of the. The faulty debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Let me tell you something else I would do if this were me, Tim. I would literally go into the clinic and ask to meet with the office manager, whoever's in charge. I mean, when can I get on your schedule?

[George Kamel]

Like a retroactive coding audit from the billing department. And you. You just mentioned the word compliance. They're gonna be like, oh, crap, we gotta.

[Ken Coleman]

And you mentioned the doctor and go, I'm willing to ask our friend to go on the record. Like, we're just playing around.

[Caller]

They're out of business in our area and they're gone. So I can't even go into the office now.

[George Kamel]

The ivf. Why wouldn't you lead with that, Tim? The place isn't even in business, so.

[Caller]

There'S no billing department to deal with nationally. They are in other states. Not in our state.

[George Kamel]

Okay. So get in touch with a corporate billing department.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And say, hey, this location closed down. I have this bad debt. I need a debt validation. I need an itemized bill from you guys. I need a. A coding audit. Here's the account number. I feel like this is partially on you, Tim, because you've been letting this just fester for years and you just gave up and went, well, I guess we'll just deal with that five years from now.

[Caller]

And so I can definitely handle that.

[Ken Coleman]

Like Tim, honestly, if we were to have a doctor come in here and check my blood pressure versus yours. I'm more pissed off about this than you are. Four.

[Caller]

You.

[Ken Coleman]

Like this is. You are in the right. Yes or no?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. Say it with some conviction, man. Like fight. Fight. This, this is obnoxious. Because George, you're the expert on this. It's my belief that he does all of these things. Everybody gets together. The powers that be get together and go, okay, this guy Tim is right. And not only is Tim right, I'm waking up at 2am in the morning thinking about Tim Tim. And I'm done. As I promise you, if this were me, this thing would be resolved fast.

[George Kamel]

I would let slumber to my eyes until this thing was handled. And so Tim, this, this is where you got to be the squeaky wheel. You've got to be contacting them so often they've got your number, like they've got it listed. Oh, Tim's calling again. Who wants to handle this one?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And eventually you're going to get to the bottom of this. But the truth is you just gave up too soon.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And nobody over there, by the way, over there being the clinic and the collection, nobody over there cares about you.

[Caller]

Sure.

[George Kamel]

And the healthcare system in general is full of incompetence. And so your job is to be so persistent to correct their competence that you win the game.

[Ken Coleman]

That you flip it from they don't care about you to they care deeply about making this right so they never have to think of your name again. This is the level of intensity, the sword of righteousness. It's a fiery sword and we are swinging it. Everybody in our path. Because you're trying to screw me.

[George Kamel]

Ken just took us to church.

[Dave Ramsey]

The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed. Living on a budget, staying out of debt and building wealth intentionally. Now here's the deal. Most banks make their money. When you don't do that, they're fine if you stay broke and frustrated. And that's why I recommend Fairwinds Credit Union. They actually want you to win with money. Their smart bundle gives you a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the new Ramsey Beweird debit card that says debt is normal Beweird right on the front. It's not just a card, it's a statement. Because every time you use it it says you control your money. Your money doesn't control you. So this year Stick to your plan, don't chase gimmicks or points and partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps. Visit Fairwinds.org Ramsey to take control of your and stay weird.

[George Kamel]

Fairwinds is federally insured by the ncua.

[Ken Coleman]

The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is sponsored by why Refi if defaulted private student loans have taken over your life, why Refi can help you breathe again with a low fixed rate plan that fits your budget. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey not available in all states.

[George Kamel]

Today's question comes from Hunter in Arizona. My dad gave me an RV when I was 18. I'm now 24, married and have two little girls. It is a very nice RV and I'm very well accustomed to the RV life. But my wife refuses to live in quote something that doesn't have a foundation. The goal we could sell our house, buy land with cash and live for free. Instead of paying our $1,500 mortgage every month, my wife would prefer to move into her parents and pay 850amonth for rent and utilities. It's a great deal but I think owning land and having no payments other than utilities is much better. Which is the better choice.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't like any of these.

[George Kamel]

Yeah these all sound like because if.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm reading this right George, one option is sell the current house house, buy land with cash and live in the rv. Am I reading that right?

[George Kamel]

It says and live for free which means the rv. Yeah that's not, that's not a plan.

[Ken Coleman]

But he already lays out that the wife's not doing that and she counters with let's move into our parents house, her parents house. None of these are good options it sounds like to me. Sounds like everybody's unhappy.

[George Kamel]

The question is, is the $1,500 mortgage is that sinking them right now? We have no other information.

[Ken Coleman]

We don't own this.

[George Kamel]

And so yeah I'm gonna say let's assume they can afford it. I think they just don't like paying it based on their framing. Here we could sell our house and buy land with cash.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. This guy wants to park the RV on the land. His wife's like no chance. I'll, I'll say no and raise you. We move into my parents house. Who wants to move into their in.

[George Kamel]

Live with mom and dad or live like walking back? Both of these are terrible options. I would rather you guys go rent somewhere if you can't afford this Mortgage right now. If it's a really crisis situation, I'd sell the rv. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Stay in the current house.

[George Kamel]

You said you're accustomed to the RV life. Your wife refuses to. I don't think she even likes the RV life.

[Ken Coleman]

I am fairly certain she hates the very concept.

[George Kamel]

I think it's okay to admit your life changed. And yes, it's sentimental because your dad gave it to you when you were 18. And you will grieve that. That. But it's just a thing going down in value. It's just a hunk of metal. And so if you want an RV in the future, you can always buy one. But if you're in a pinch, I would sell it, pay off any debt you have, get to a better place financially, and then see is this mortgage sustainable for the long term future.

[Ken Coleman]

The only RV I would ever buy would be the model from Christmas vacation.

[George Kamel]

Oh, the exact replica.

[Ken Coleman]

If you. Well, yeah, if you could find that year, that model.

[George Kamel]

That's probably a hot commodity.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't think so. It's a piece of crap, but. And then you could basically save it. It's just like it's nothing. And I would. This is cash. This is me. And I'm basically parking it somewhere until the day after Thanksgiving, at which point I create a Christmas display somewhere with that.

[George Kamel]

Charge five bucks a pop to walk.

[Ken Coleman]

In there and all of a sudden pays for Christmas.

[George Kamel]

Billion dollar idea.

[Ken Coleman]

You were doing custom cocktails in the little rv. There's a guy in the lobby that's already ready.

[George Kamel]

You've had worse ideas.

[Ken Coleman]

And you know what it is? Everybody gets a moose glass. You see where I'm, everybody. It's like, I'm going to charge you too much for the Christmas cocktail. But you get the moose glass and you get your picture. And I have a cousin Eddie guy standing out there in his robe, the whole thing.

[George Kamel]

If this was Shark Tank, all the sharks would be chomping at the bit for this idea.

[Ken Coleman]

So I got to find me one of those RVs. Stacy's going to hate this idea.

[George Kamel]

We'll look at the break for the record.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Seth is up in Los Angeles. Seth, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hell, today I'm in a contract on the house that I still have time to back out of. However, I'm realizing the solar lease is problematic because it's 22 year contract and if I want to buy out the contract, it's $45,000.

[Ken Coleman]

No, thank you.

[George Kamel]

Why are we not making the seller buy it out as part of the dealer?

[Caller]

The seller in the contract that we're in escrow on said that the solar goes the house. So I haven't posed a new option.

[George Kamel]

Sure, the solar stays on the house, but you should not be on the hook for this whole thing. For his bad decision that he's now trying to get out of.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, is it like it's just not worth it?

[Caller]

Yeah, it might be a next of kin scenario to where they're just, they're getting rid of the house and they don't want to pay into it at all. So I, I don't know the entirety of the situation, but I do, I think it might be a next of kin just trying to suck up as much money as they can on the sale.

[Ken Coleman]

100%.

[George Kamel]

So this is 40. How much did you say? The buyout the house, the solar of.

[Caller]

The solar is 45,000 over 22 years. That's if I want to buy it out. It is a, I think they call it a balloon lease to where every year it goes up by 3.5%. And so right now my electric bill would be 145ish and by the end of year 22, it would be 316. I would, I'm currently living alone and probably would not use that much electricity.

[Ken Coleman]

So what made you agree to this?

[George Kamel]

Yeah, why did you sign the contract?

[Caller]

I didn't realize it was that problematic at the time.

[George Kamel]

Did your realtor not go, hey man, just FYI.

[Caller]

The contract was sent to me. The realtor did not realize it was a 22 year contract and the buyout of it. I had to do that digging myself to figure out what the buyout was because they did not give her that information either.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you know what, it doesn't matter because you're telling me you can get out of it, Correct?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Ken Coleman]

Walk away, man.

[George Kamel]

Get out of this thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Think about it.

[George Kamel]

You're paying new system money for old panels. A whole new system should be less than 45,000. Your 22 year lease kills any resale value because you're not going to be in there for 22 years. You're assuming all the risk for the solar, the maintenance, the roof issues and there's zero upside. You didn't get the tax credit, you didn't choose the system. This was a terrible deal all around. So I would say dodge the bullet and get out of this.

[Caller]

Yeah, that is initially my thought process as well. The question also poses if it's about 25,000 below comps and the seller is paying for all essential components, costs of realtor fees and inspection fees and those things.

[George Kamel]

It's still not worth it. You're still on the horse.

[Ken Coleman]

You're trying to talk yourself into this.

[George Kamel]

I would go, hey, if you want to cover the buyout, I'm in. Otherwise, no deal. Okay, that's it. You play hardball now?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. You got walk away power, I hope. Yeah.

[George Kamel]

There's other houses that you can get a deal on that aren't stuck with with this terrible debt attached to it.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, so, hey, this is very simple for us. We walk away from this one. Turn your favorite walk away song, whatever that is, and get it in your head before you call them up. You know, maybe walk on by you two. I don't know. That's what I would choose. I'm going to call them. Going to get fired up, pumped up, tell my realtor I'm done, and then let's see what the negotiation looks like then. By the way, one of our amazing teammates, Will Rudder, just texted. Texted me. And it the RV is a 1971 Ford Condor Camper. I'm interested in buying anything with the name Condor. Okay.

[George Kamel]

Strong.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you know what I'm saying? Like, that sucks me in a little bit. Are you seeing any prices for those, George?

[George Kamel]

I see one bid for the chance.

[Ken Coleman]

What are we talking about? I need to know what the market is.

[George Kamel]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

The one you sent me, Will, is right in the range. It's pretty good beat up. And then I would hire an artist. Artist to make it look like the one in the movie. You know what I mean? They could probably do with some type of sandblasting or something like that. It looked like it had a lot of rust on it. Are you coming up with anything?

[George Kamel]

You're not the only one, Ken. I. I just found a forum where someone said, I'm looking for the motorhome like cousin Eddie had in the movie.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah.

[George Kamel]

You're not the first one to think of this.

[Ken Coleman]

I never said I was.

[George Kamel]

I think this guy wants to get to your business ideas, but I. I.

[Ken Coleman]

Don'T know how many people are thinking about it turning into a seasonal bar. See, I'm thinking money maker.

[George Kamel]

This feels like a retirement dream because it's going to cost you money. I don't think it's going to make you money.

[Ken Coleman]

I disagree. And talking, your only cost is buying one of these things. All right, we'll stay with the research and see what the market is. Do you want to take a guess? I'm going to say what it would cost. I'm going to say people are charging 50 grand or more for something like.

[George Kamel]

That if they know what they got.

[Ken Coleman]

Who doesn't know they have a condor?

[George Kamel]

There might be some old guy out there who hadn't seen a movie since, you know, 1968.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know. It's of kind. Greatest Christmas movie of all time. I think if you got a condor, you know, you got, you know what you got.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys. I started my company on a card table myself. So I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest. Early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got netsuite. That was years ago and we've never looked back. See, netsuite isn't just for tech giants. It's built for growing businesses like yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on NetSuite, including a lot that's started just like you. And now with built in AI, NetSuite is helping them even more. It's one system connected to every part of your business. For real time insights, not guesswork. NetSuite AI flags, inventory issues, cash flow risks, even supplier delays before they become problems. So you can trust the data, stop wasting time and make the right decisions faster. Take a free product tour [e-mail] Ramsey that's netsuite.com Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, Jeff is up next in Minneapolis. Jeff, how can we help?

[Caller]

Yeah, I just wonder if I could get some money advice or real estate advice? Kind of both.

[Ken Coleman]

I guess we will allow both of those today. We're feeling very generous.

[Caller]

Generous, awesome. Good.

[Ken Coleman]

Go ahead. What's up?

[Caller]

Okay, well, the real estate part of it is, it's our daughter's house that I'm wondering about. She got divorced about a year ago and she got the house. She also got the mortgage with it. But there's plenty of, there's about half of it. She has good assets, you know, half value. But she had to refinance it for half of it and she really can't afford it. So we've been helping her and just wondering if we did the wrong thing. Probably co signing for that so she could qualify and.

[George Kamel]

Oh, you co signed for the mortgage?

[Caller]

We did, yes. For the refinance. Yeah. And you're helping her because she, she can't afford the payments right now. She's going to school and working part time. Yes.

[George Kamel]

So how much are you, are you guys giving her right now?

[Ken Coleman]

Every month.

[Caller]

Varied. I mean, sometimes she come up with the full mortgage, got close to Christmas there. We didn't even see a payment through all men because. So it's kind of been biting us a little bit there.

[George Kamel]

And she's working full time, part time.

[Caller]

And going to, going to school for teaching right now too.

[George Kamel]

Okay, what is she doing for work?

[Caller]

She's working in a school setting as a paraprofessional, they call them.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so let's fast forward, forward. She's done with school, she's a teacher making, I don't know, $50,000. Is that.

[Caller]

Yeah, maybe a little more up in this area.

[George Kamel]

Can she afford her life on her own in this house at that time, or is it still going to be tight?

[Caller]

What's time would tell?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let's ask you specifically, what's the mortgage payment?

[Caller]

Mortgage is 1700amonth.

[Ken Coleman]

So there's your answer.

[George Kamel]

I don't think this is sustainable. No, I think you need to have a hard conversation with her and say, hey, we're gonna need to sell this house. It's not sustainable for you. It's not sustainable for us. And she can rent for the time being. Right. While she's in school.

[Caller]

Yeah. Our area up here, there's not a lot of good areas, housing. And how old is. She's 43. We're kind of just looking out for the grandkids mostly.

[Ken Coleman]

How old are they?

[Caller]

13 and 10. Kind of don't want to have to see them get taken out of the house right away, you know, I know.

[Ken Coleman]

We don't, but, but, but I know we don't, but this is not sustainable. As George said. This is. And, and you're a great father, by the way. Like, you are a phenomenal dad. But this isn't your burden.

[George Kamel]

This could be forever.

[Ken Coleman]

This could be.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Like once she gets used to you floating two grand a month.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Why would she go up? I'll. I don't want to take that anymore. Maybe at some point she gets on her feet, but that could be years and years from now.

[Ken Coleman]

But she actually can get on her feet if you get her out of this pit.

[Caller]

That's what I say. But she could probably go put a good down payment somewhere cheaper and have a smaller payment for sure.

[Ken Coleman]

Right, but that's my point. So let's get out of this House, you guide her through this, say, hey, we've been helping you this way, but it's actually not helping. We're just spinning our tires. And here's how we want to help you. We're going to guide you through this. Sell the house, get out from underneath this, get a lower payment if she needs to rent for a year or two until she gets the teacher salary. You know, the kids are going to be fine as long as the 10 and the 13 year old are with her. Their life, by the way, has already been wrecked, so it's not the house they need. They need her. And to be completely honest with you, that house has got some trauma associated with it for sure. So I could make the case that the best thing to do. Not just financially, George, emotionally, I think this is the best thing to do.

[Caller]

I'm thinking of an investment, though. It's such beautiful property.

[Ken Coleman]

And again, you know what you keep doing, though? You keep trying to justify pouring money into this pit that she cannot get out of.

[George Kamel]

If you want to help, she can sell it to you. She can be yours.

[Caller]

Let's put this way, actually thought about that, but I don't know if. If I want to go that route, you know, being a. I don't want to own a property in the country.

[George Kamel]

You just told us it was a beautiful property and it's a great. It could be a great investment.

[Ken Coleman]

So which one is.

[Caller]

Is a great investment? I don't want to live here.

[George Kamel]

Okay, then we're not. Good, then we need to get out of it. There's a lot of beautiful properties that I don't want to own, and this isn't. This is one of them. So here's the deal. Are you guys in a good place financially?

[Caller]

We're sitting. Okay.

Okay.

Yeah, no, I'm retired. My wife's still working.

[George Kamel]

Okay. I mean, you got. What's your net worth?

[Caller]

Maybe about 500,000.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so you're. You're not in a place to go buy property. You're not in a place to float your daughter, you know, a few grand a month. And I think you need to be honest with her and just tell her, hey, we've been artificially propping this whole situation up. We love you, we want to help you, but we can't take this mortgage on and you can't either. And we need to face the reality here.

[Caller]

That's probably, probably good advice.

[George Kamel]

Do you guys have room in the house if she temporarily stayed with you?

[Caller]

No, but there's.

[Ken Coleman]

There's another.

[Caller]

There's another she's involved with someone else. And she's barely at this place. At this house, actually, because she's at his house.

[Dave Ramsey]

Whoa.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so there's another man in the picture.

[Caller]

Yeah, he's got a cabin. So they're up there all the time.

[Ken Coleman]

And I keep giving us more reasons to list this house this afternoon.

[Caller]

I agree, but I. I come up here and ski and I use it as kind of recreational for me.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, oh, so now papa's got some benefits here. Jeff enjoys this house. This isn't about her.

[Caller]

Well, maybe not.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, no, I'm gonna. I'm gonna remove the. Maybe it's not about her. She's in the cabin with the new dude and you're the one that's up there skiing and telling us how great a property it is. But I don't want to live here. And I got to say, for a guy who co signed on it, who needs more net worth, I would be unloading this house.

[George Kamel]

And by the way, this is already messy. Who's going to get all the equity when you sell?

[Caller]

She will.

[George Kamel]

So you're not taking a dime from the proceeds of the house?

[Caller]

I'm hoping that she'd have enough where she could reimburse some of the money we've been throwing out there.

[George Kamel]

Well, that's a whole new conversation. Have you guys talked about that and agree agreed to it when you co signed the mortgage? Is that, hey, you're going to reimburse us for what we've paid you? Because that'd be a shock to me if I was your son. And this was a big surprise at the end.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, you knew she wasn't going to make the payment with her income of, you know, what she was making.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm not so sure. You didn't go. Well, I really like the skiing up in this part of the woods and I could help my daughter out at the same time. I mean, can you not get a Motel 6 near the ski slope?

[Caller]

Yeah, I know, but they tell me.

[Ken Coleman]

They leave the light on.

[Caller]

It's actually more. More the kids than me, I think for me.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, no, you're all over the place, man.

[George Kamel]

The kids staying there alone while she's at the cabin. How is this working?

[Caller]

You guys are both talking. I couldn't hear.

[Ken Coleman]

I know, it's my fault. I was trying to be a smart Alec. Go ahead, George.

[George Kamel]

I'm just confused. So the. It's about the kids now, but the kids are staying at the house. She's at this other guy's house. I'm just confused. Confused by the whole situation. They're all.

[Caller]

They're all. They all go to the other guy's house. You know, they split the go there.

[Ken Coleman]

They stay here.

[George Kamel]

It's clear that this house means not a lot to these kids anymore. They're already getting taken every which way to different houses. So what's the difference? I would sell this and get out from under it. Take all the risk out from under your feet, and then you can go rent a spot if you want to go ski anytime you want. And with the money you save from getting out of this dumpster fire, you can afford to go enjoy some skiing.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, sorry, Jeff. I mean, we're for you. You called us. You talked yourself right into the corner.

[Caller]

I kind of knew what you guys were going to say. I listen to you guys all the time.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, that's good. I'm glad we didn't disappoint. That's. That's always good. But you're a good man.

[George Kamel]

But hey, the key is, here's the principle. Underneath it, if you're going to help, it should be one, temporary, temporary. Two, intentional, three, conditional. That's what you need. Not open ended, not well. It could be a good investment. And we're gonna co sign. There needs to be very clear boundaries anytime you help someone. Yeah, and we never loan money, so I like that you didn't do that. But if it's going to be a gift, it needs to be, hey, we're gonna gift you this for the next six months. And here's what's going to happen after that. You're going to be out of school. You're going to have a job. You're going to be taking this on. We will not be giving you another dime after that. And that's not callous. That's actually good for her because she's a grown woman and she needs to live her own life and not be propped up by mom and dad at this point.

[Ken Coleman]

And he could take that savings, maybe invest in me with my Christmas pop up with the Condor.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, you want this to be a safety net, not a hammock. And it's quickly turning into the ladder.

[Ken Coleman]

I'll just ship it up to the ski area. Let's park it outside the lodge. Me and Jeff sitting out in our laundry.

[George Kamel]

Let go of the dream, Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

I believe they call that a callback, James. All right, folks, you know this buying or selling a home is a very, very big deal. And you don't want to mess that up. You want to go into it Clear eyed, level headed, ready to go. And you do that by using our Ramsey trusted program to find a top agent you can trust in your area to make this whole process, whether you're buying or selling, a blessing, not a burden. You can find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free by going to ramseysolutions.com agent ramseysolutions.com agent or we have a link in the show notes. Let's go to my friend Ken. And I'm friends with all Kens, George. Just.

[George Kamel]

You've never met a Ken you didn't like?

[Ken Coleman]

No, it's a great name and just, you know, you just know it's a solid person. Ken is joining us in San Francisco. Ken, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi Ken. Hi George. Thanks for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet. What's going on? Going on.

[Caller]

So my wife would like me to sell our truck and get a newer truck and I'm not sure if that's a great idea and also if I end up selling it, how much truck I could afford.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, this is one of George's favorite things to talk about. So hit us with the details.

[George Kamel]

Let's get into it.

[Caller]

It's a 2000 Ford Ranger. It's got low miles and it's had a couple issues. But I'm able to work on a truck that old and I like low registration and insurance payments and I own it outright, so.

[Ken Coleman]

And can we say that's a fantastic truck, that little Ford Ranger.

[George Kamel]

I miss those old ones. Yeah, perfect size. That's the truck I would have if I was a truck.

[Ken Coleman]

I was getting ready to say short guys like us, we drive, if we drive trucks, it's a Ford Ranger, no question.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so your wife, what does she think about this? You think it's a death trap. What is her reasoning for why you need a.

[Ken Coleman]

A new truck?

[Caller]

Yes, that's exactly it. She believes it's unsafe for the kids and also has bad paint fade. So I think she just also doesn't like driving it around town.

[George Kamel]

Just the curb appeal is off putting to her.

[Ken Coleman]

She doesn't like the patina. Huh.

[George Kamel]

Now where are you guys at financially? Do you have any debt?

[Caller]

So we have zero debt besides the house. And other than that we have.

We.

Have high yield savings account with approximately 125,000.

[George Kamel]

Okay, buy a truck. Dude, what are we doing here?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh no, there's no need to shout.

[George Kamel]

I'm not saying don't buy a brand new truck, but could you get a new to you truck for what's your household income?

[Caller]

It's approximately 330,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh boy. Your wife has just got the patience of dream job dude.

[George Kamel]

This is like extreme cheapskates level. This is wild.

[Ken Coleman]

And by the way, it takes one to know one. When George says that if I'm telling.

[George Kamel]

You to buy new trucks. Okay, so what truck would your wife like you to have and what's the price point of said truck?

[Caller]

So if I was to get a new truck, I was looking at a used Toyota Tacoma, maybe in the 20, 20 year range. So approximately 30,000.

[George Kamel]

I would do it yesterday.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. Wow, George.

[George Kamel]

This is all green lights.

[Ken Coleman]

This is so fun.

[George Kamel]

This is a rare truck guy. Most truck guys are broke with huge payments and their truck payment is more than their mortgage.

[Ken Coleman]

Ken, is your wife near you right now by any chance?

[Caller]

Yeah, she is.

[Ken Coleman]

Did she hear this call?

[Caller]

She can. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Good. I just want to make sure that.

[George Kamel]

She heard George said do.

[Ken Coleman]

Do it. You know, buy the truck.

[George Kamel]

And here's the parameter. Make sure that everything with wheels and motors in your life is no more than half of your annual income. Check. Pay cash, check. Be debt free with an emergency fund. Check. So you are all make your wife happy.

[Ken Coleman]

Check.

[George Kamel]

Okay, you're not doing anything out of control. You should have a little party to say goodbye to this truck because I think it's fantastic. It's sentimental. You can frame a picture of it.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you know what, actually, quick question because I was thinking, thinking about this. How much is that? I don't know what a. A 2000 Ford Ranger would cost in that condition. Do you have any idea what you could get for it?

[Caller]

I believe I could get around $6,000 for it.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Can I throw something out, George?

[George Kamel]

Sure do.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, let me ask a question before I throw it out, Ken. Do you need the $6,000 from the Ford Ranger? How much do you need that money to buy the truck that you want to get.

[Caller]

Particularly need?

[George Kamel]

He doesn't need it.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, Can I suggest.

[George Kamel]

You want him to keep it, don't you?

[Ken Coleman]

He likes it a lot.

[George Kamel]

You got room for an extra ugly truck around the house or does she not want to see it?

[Caller]

We, we do have room for it. Yeah, I could probably keep it. That's an idea.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, does she want it gone from her existence is what we're getting at?

[Caller]

I think she just does. Doesn't want to pick up the kids in school with it.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, would you like to keep it, or was this just all financial and it was the concept of how little money you were putting into it, or do you want to keep.

[Caller]

Drives Great. So I, I, I wouldn't have a problem keeping it.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm gonna throw it out there.

[George Kamel]

Well, here's the good news.

[Ken Coleman]

You, I'm gonna throw it out.

[George Kamel]

You can go buy the truck tomorrow and not have to sell this one. And so it's not like an on fire situation.

[Ken Coleman]

That's why I'm.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, but my guess is is your wife's about to call 1-800- Got- junk and get this thing out of the driveway.

[Ken Coleman]

Six grand.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, but I'm just saying she wants it gone. And for those reasons, eventually you have to let go of things. And so I think it's been high time. How long have you had it?

[Caller]

I've had it approximately three years now.

[George Kamel]

Oh, okay. So this, it's a new truck to you?

[Caller]

Yeah, I had a commuter before and my commute got short, so I got a truck.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh man, Ken, you are special. In a good way. The fact that you love that 2000 Ford Ranger, patina pains, six figures in.

[George Kamel]

Savings making $300,000 and we're arguing over.

[Ken Coleman]

But this is, this is the next door. This is the everyday. This is the millionaire that you don't see coming because he's rolling up in a 2000 Ford Ranger.

[George Kamel]

I love it.

[Ken Coleman]

Ken, do you mind asking what is your retirement portfolio? Portfolio?

[Caller]

Right now I have a four five seven with approximately 380,000 in it.

[George Kamel]

Yeah, fantastic.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, he's rocking.

[George Kamel]

What's your house worth?

[Caller]

The house is between 900 and million.

[George Kamel]

And what do you owe on it?

[Caller]

We owe 315.

[George Kamel]

Fantastic. So you guys are baby steps millionaires.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, no question.

[Caller]

Yeah, thanks to my dad listening to you today back in the day.

[George Kamel]

That's amazing. Well, here's the cool news. I don't, I'm not saying you should do this and I wouldn't, but you could buy a new car because we tell people, hey, if you're going to get a new car, you got to wait till you got a million dollar net worth for a simple reason. It's too much of your world wrapped up in something going down in value before you hit that milestone.

[Caller]

Okay, yeah, I'm just, I like the cheap insurance and registration, but I hear.

[George Kamel]

You and I'm sure you've done your research to find what trucks have the cheapest insurance.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh yeah.

[Caller]

Oh yeah.

[George Kamel]

This guy researches, you know, this guy.

[Ken Coleman]

Could sub in for you.

[George Kamel]

Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

You two are wired. We can do a car exactly the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[George Kamel]

I'd swap this Ken for this Ken any day.

[Ken Coleman]

Well played.

[George Kamel]

I love it. Thanks for the Call.

[Ken Coleman]

And I don't blame you. He's far more your kind of guy.

[George Kamel]

Than I needed a win today. I was feeling like a real fuddy duddy. And so it feels good to deliver some good news.

[Ken Coleman]

It does, doesn't it? Really important, by the way. I do think it's important. We have new people all the time. So I'm thinking new listener, new new viewer. I want you to explain again a little bit more detailed as to why we do that formula of how much the car versus just. I just think it's important to explain the why.

[George Kamel]

Easy match. If you have a household income of $100,000, then everything with wheels and motors in your life that could be an rv, a boat, cars should not add up to more than $50,000. Half that's the top limit.

[Ken Coleman]

And why.

[George Kamel]

The reason is those things are going down in value. So you got a depreciating asset. And so if you have $80,000 worth of car and you make 100,000, that is so much of your world that is literally tanking. And so you don't want to make these decisions, especially with debt, because here's what we see. They buy the $40,000 truck with a payment, so it costs them $50,000 and six years later that thing is worth $20,000. So now you've got a real problem. You're underwater within a, a year on this truck and you've paid way more than it's worth. And that puts people in a bind. So the good news is you pay cash for a car, you can never be underwater.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly right. Because let's play that scenario out. Let's go. What you said. So if you have a million dollars net worth or more and you buy a brand new car and something, you know, life changing financially happens, where do you sit?

[George Kamel]

Well, you're sitting with a paid for car that you can unload, no debt, with a sizable net worth. A nest egg so you can stomach the depreciation.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Kamel]

It's a all about ratios.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Kamel]

And so you got to go, well, this guy makes $300,000 so he can buy a $30,000 truck. The person calling in who makes $40,000, I'm going to tell them to sell that truck if that's in their life.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And so it's not that, you know, expensive trucks equals bad. It's are you doing this from a place of financial strength versus it really being a detriment to your financial future?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, we should have told Ken. And if he's still listening. Steak dinner tonight, you know.

[George Kamel]

Absolutely.

[Ken Coleman]

Celebrate the fact that your wife is going to be.

[George Kamel]

So eat it in the truck.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, eat it.

[George Kamel]

It's a date night with the truck.

[Ken Coleman]

In the new truck, in the old truck. I like the old truck because you don't want to get the old grease on the new seats. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me. All of a sudden I can't talk. Sometimes it happens.

[George Kamel]

I have that effect on people. Yeah, Speechless.

[Ken Coleman]

It's your cologne. It's. It throws me off.

[George Kamel]

I think more of it. It's a musk.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what it is. 888-825. 5225 is the number to join George and I fun today as we always do. We're going to help you in the process. Joe is up in Orlando, Florida. Joe, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hello. How are you guys today?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, we're having a blast. How are you?

[Caller]

Good, good. Well, I'm hoping you guys can settle a disagreement between my husband and I about paying off our mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

I believe we should use a mutual fund that we have to pay it off right now and he would rather do it with cash flow.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, give us the numbers. How much to pay off the house?

[Caller]

The balance on the mortgage is about $29,000.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And if we don't pay it out of the mutual fund? If we were to do husband's plan, what is the date? Is he attaching a date by which it's paying paid off through your normal.

[Caller]

Income about six months to a year? Six months would be really aggressive. And a year would be a little less aggressive.

Of course.

[Ken Coleman]

How much is that? It doesn't matter. But I'm just curious, how much is the house worth?

[Caller]

The house is worth about 700,000.

[Ken Coleman]

And give us your retirement portfolio.

[Caller]

We have about $850,000 in just retirement.

[George Kamel]

Savings and then non retirement. What do you have?

[Caller]

Well, we have the mutual fund that is worth about $37,000 and we have cash about another $60,000 of other liquid cash between our bank accounts.

[George Kamel]

Why not just use the cash?

[Caller]

Because we've got some other large purchases that we need to make this summer.

[George Kamel]

Okay. And what's the price priority? Is it the large purchases this summer?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Nothing's on fire with the mortgage. It's getting paid off. Let's say it's going to happen within the next 6 to 12 months no matter how we do it. Can we agree on that?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Now everyone's happy already.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

So now it's just. What strategy and tactic are we going to use to get there? Mutual fund cash, putting extra through future income and then these future purchases. Is this going to drain the savings or do you have another emergency?

[Caller]

It wouldn't drain the savings. No, we just have to buy another vehicle for my son who's become of driving age.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, what are we looking at? What are we thinking about spending on that?

[Caller]

Well, he's going to get his brother's older car and then we're going to replace that car. About a $25,000 purchase is what we're looking at.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, I'm just doing the math. So that leaves us 35, right?

[Caller]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And what's the other big. You said plural purchases.

[Caller]

We may have to replace our roof.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, what's that going to cost?

[Caller]

Probably about 15.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so that gets us down to.

[George Kamel]

20 and that's if we don't replenish it and put more money in there as we go.

[Caller]

Correct.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have an emergency fund separate of this $60,000 in cash?

[Caller]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, well, what is a three to six month emergency fund for you? What's that amount?

[Caller]

About $30,000.

[George Kamel]

Perfect. So how about after these large purchases are complete, we replace the roof, we get the car, anything above the 30 goes toward the house and then anything that's remaining on the mortgage we take from the mutual fund. Deal?

[Caller]

Deal.

[George Kamel]

Then we don't deplete the mutual fund. Which, by the way, here's my rub with what you guys. Here's what happened. Here's what, here's what went wrong. You were investing money with no purpose or there was a purpose and now you decided, I want a different purpose than he had in mind.

[Caller]

It's a very old mutual fund. It's a mutual fund that I started from a car accident money when I was quite young. So it's kind of just leftover. So it's been there for quite some time.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so this is just sort of bonus money that's been sitting around. Obviously you're going to have some capital gains taxes, so I would look into that. I don't think that's why he didn't want to liquidate it, but that could be part of it.

[Ken Coleman]

But I will tell you, I'm going to throw a different scenario out because you said if we got aggressive we could pay it off in six months. If we didn't get aggressive, normal cash flow, this house is paid off in 12 months. I don't like taking the tax hit to do this. So I actually am in agreement with your husband because of these other expenses, George, I'm just going to stick to it. You guys have been very aggressive being very committed to do this. I just wouldn't empty. I wouldn't take any money out of the mutual fund. I think I'd pay this off in 6 to 12 months out of our normal cash flow and have the cash for all the other things that you got to do. Don't touch the emergency fund. That's just where I'm at. But that's only because, George, I don't disagree with your opinion. I just, I just don't want to use that mutual fund money for this.

[George Kamel]

Well, that's why I asked them to calculate it, because it might not not be as much as you think. If they're only taking out $5,000 and the capital gains was, I see, 2,000. And then you're paying 15% of 2,000. Now we're talking a few hundred bucks. And so I don't think it's as scary as, you know, hundreds of thousands being liquidated. But Joe, I think there's a good compromise here. I don't think either of you are wrong. You guys are being very intentional with even paying this mortgage off. Now, if he said I never want to pay it off, then I would think we'd have a bigger problem. But it's really just about tactics and semantics. And so I think splitting the difference. I want you both to be a little bit. Feel like we both kind of lost and we both kind of won.

[Ken Coleman]

That's, that's marriage, but a great situation to be in. So good for you.

[George Kamel]

Congratulations. Baby steps. Millionaires about to have a paid for house.

[Ken Coleman]

So fun.

[George Kamel]

It's a good life, good problem to have.

[Ken Coleman]

Steve is up in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Steve, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, thank you so much for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

I'm 36 years old. My wife is 31. We're on baby step number seven. We're debt free. Our house is paid off. All of our cars are paid off. But we're thinking about buying a bigger house. Something that's going to put us about $500,000 in debt again.

[George Kamel]

How much did you have the first time?

[Caller]

So our house is worth about 350,000. And we're not sure if maybe renting it out to get a little bit of extra.

[George Kamel]

No, we're not. We're not going to have a mortgage on the other house and have this investment property over here. I would say just sell it. Use all the Proceeds to put towards the next house. And you're talking about like a $750,000 $800,000 house?

[Caller]

No, no, no. I was talking about a 500,000. $550,000 house.

[George Kamel]

Okay, well, if you put your three, your 350,000 in proceeds, you'll get from selling yours. Now we're Talking about a $200,000 mortgage, right, that you'll pay off how quickly?

[Caller]

Well, my first mortgage was probably around 160, and I paid it off in seven years.

[George Kamel]

Okay, well, if you can, you guys pay it off more aggressively in this case.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Obviously, 10 years ago, we were not making as much as we were. We are now.

[George Kamel]

Okay, and what's your take home pay? Every month as a household?

[Caller]

Every month.

[George Kamel]

So I.

[Caller]

My yearly salary or combined yearly salary is about 150,000.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

Base salary is about $50,000 each. And then we get commissions, tips, bonuses from our businesses.

[George Kamel]

So healthy six figure income. You can easily afford a $200,000 mortgage. And let's make a spit shake and go, hey, we're to going to pay this thing off in three years. And that way you're not going backwards for a long period of time. It's not a sin to go from baby step seven back to six, but we don't want to hang out there for seven years either. Why the sell the house?

[Ken Coleman]

Why the spit in the shake?

[George Kamel]

I don't know. It just feels more official. That feels like a true bond.

[Ken Coleman]

Coming from a germaphobe like you, I'm a little surprised. I would never do that.

[George Kamel]

Just a good shake. If you kiss, you've already done it. I'm just saying.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I see.

[George Kamel]

Hey, guys, what's up? It's Jade, and I'm pumped for the.

[Ken Coleman]

New year, and I hope you are too.

[George Kamel]

But the problem is most people start.

[Caller]

The new year with a lot of promises and no. You know how it is.

[George Kamel]

I'm gonna save money or I'm gonna get my financial act together. But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself.

[Caller]

I want you to win.

[George Kamel]

And our EveryDollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, EveryDollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at.

[Caller]

With money right now.

[George Kamel]

And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your your.

[Ken Coleman]

Pocket, helping you stay on track all year long.

[George Kamel]

So don't just wish your money works out. You can be the one to actually make it happen this year. Download the EveryDollar Budget app and get started right now for free.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, New York City is where we're going next. Lee is joining us. Lee, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call. So my question is, I live in my childhood home with my sister and my boyfriend. Last summer we started renovations and my sister decided to move out. So now I just want to know, is she still responsible for part of the renovation for the house?

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, did. Did we get her to sign anything? Did we, did we sign anything? No.

[George Kamel]

There was no agreement that, hey, yep, we're gonna do these renovations.

[Caller]

Well, she knew we were gonna. Well, she was here when we started the renovation.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but was there. We know there was no sign thing, but was there a conversation around the breakfast table?

[George Kamel]

Was it 50? 50?

[Ken Coleman]

This is gonna cost about X amount of dollars. Are you.

[George Kamel]

You in?

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[George Kamel]

Is there any agreement about this co ownership situation?

[Caller]

No, she's just on the title. She's on the title of the house. It's our childhood house that we got from our parents.

[George Kamel]

Okay, are these necessary repairs or are these like improvements? Upgrades.

[Caller]

Yeah, Improvement. Upgrade.

[Ken Coleman]

And I have a sense that you were the one driving the train. You were the leader, the ideator kind of executed.

[Dave Ramsey]

I am?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Here's the tough news. If there's nothing in writing, you can't force her to pay for these improvements and upgrades. It's like an elective surgery.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Kamel]

So if there was a necessary, like, hey, the foundation's cracked and we both own this house, I think you'd have an argument to go, we're going to split this. Right. But if it's, hey, I just want a new kitchen and she was there when you started it. I don't think you're going to have a case here. In which case, I would limit this if you can't afford it. Are you going into debt for this? Are you cash flowing it?

[Caller]

No, no, no, no. We have. We have cash. I just received the trust from my uncle about three years ago, so I'm using that.

[George Kamel]

Okay, here's what I might do. And I think is wise you would, you should drop an agreement saying, hey, I'm putting this much in upgrades, I'm going to get that much more out of the house when it sells.

[Dave Ramsey]

Right.

[George Kamel]

That's fair.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Have you already brought this up to her to say, hey, you were here or you just had hitting this kind of bouncing this off?

[Caller]

Well, what I was going to do is I was going to wait until I have the whole total of the renovation, and then I was going to say, this is your cut.

[Ken Coleman]

So good. You haven't brought it up. So our. Our point to you is you don't even have a common sense argument on this one. So don't burn any calories or create any tension with your sister on this. I think you bring it up in the form of what George said. Hey, I've decided to do this as, you know, know, and I think it's going to add this kind of value, but I'm going to get a realtor's take on this. Not going to make up a number based on all my receipts. And then I want to know if you're okay. If. When we sell this, I think George's advice is great, or you go, or.

[George Kamel]

We could split this 5050 and nothing changes. We'll both get the same amount when we sell it. But it makes no sense for. For her to benefit from the appreciation, you know, this house is going to be more expensive.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. I agree.

[George Kamel]

Because of the renovations. And so therefore she shouldn't get all the benefit when you floated all the money for it. But this is. It's part of the mess. When you co. Own a house, even with family.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Kamel]

It's just hard to not make it messy. So the other part is, what's the long term game plan with this house? Are you going to live in it forever? Is there a plan to sell it? Can you sell it without her writing off on it?

[Caller]

No, actually, there's no long term. My daughter will probably inherit the house.

[George Kamel]

How old's your daughter?

[Caller]

24.

[George Kamel]

Okay. Has she said, I would love to have this house when you're. When you're gone?

[Caller]

For now, yeah. She's not gonna be able to afford a mortgage. My house is almost paid off.

[George Kamel]

Cool. Well, I would talk to your sister asap. I'd get all the numbers as soon as possible and go, here's what the total cost is. Keep it reasonable because there's a chance you don't ever get this money back. And so I would limit what you're doing. It's easy to go crazy when you're doing renovations, and they're always more expensive than you thought they were going to be.

[Caller]

Of course.

[George Kamel]

And it always takes longer.

[Caller]

Of course.

[Ken Coleman]

All right.

[George Kamel]

Best of luck.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Thanks, Lee. Thanks for the call. Let's go to Steve, who is in our backyard here of Nashville, Tennessee. Steve, how can we help? Hey, guys.

[Caller]

Thanks for taking my call today.

[Ken Coleman]

Sure.

[Caller]

So my My, my questions are all regarding just getting out of debt. So I, I work full time and have a business that I do as well. And over the last five years, I've accumulated about $434,368 of debt for the business? No, that's my mortgage. It's all my debt. I had a mortgage before the business.

[George Kamel]

Okay, outside of the mortgage, how much debt do you have?

[Caller]

It's 166,307.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, and what is that comprised of?

[Caller]

It's my vehicles. I have two. Two vehicles. My wife's car, my car. Credit cards and loans.

[George Kamel]

What are you taking home from the business each year?

[Caller]

Last year I ended up clearing 37,000.

[George Kamel]

That's not great. How long you been running this business?

[Caller]

About five years.

[Ken Coleman]

Are you running, are you running any of your expenses through the business or you're only getting 37,000?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm running all my expense, you know, my expenses that I can through my business. We had, we had about $99,000 in revenue, but paid taxes on the 37.

[George Kamel]

What's your household income? Is your wife working outside the home?

[Caller]

She does. She works somewhat of a part time, full time. She's making about 30,000 a year, and I'm clearing about another 80 at my job full time.

[George Kamel]

Oh, so you have a full time job on top of, top of that? Yes. Well, you buried the lead there. I was like, oh, my goodness. How are you guys surviving?

[Ken Coleman]

So the 37 that you paid yourself as a side hustle?

[Caller]

Yes, correct.

[George Kamel]

I feel a whole lot better. I was like, this dude's been at it for five years full time.

[Ken Coleman]

I was about ready to tell you to shut the business down, man. It was going to get bleeding fast.

[Caller]

I'm sorry.

[George Kamel]

So you guys are making 150 grand a year?

[Caller]

That's before taxes, sure, yeah.

[George Kamel]

GROSS Household income. 150 grand. Okay, what's your question?

[Caller]

Well, my question is, is that I'm overextended here big time. You know, I'm. All my payments and everything, you know, it's. It's more about how can I get this cleared up and start actually making. Putting money towards, you know, our retirement and things, as opposed to just paying all these loans.

[George Kamel]

Well, his answer is simple. You're driving your retirement right now. Those cars, cars were your retirement fund, but you decided, I want a nice car instead.

[Ken Coleman]

What's your combined car payments?

[Caller]

It's 1752.

[George Kamel]

Goodness gracious. What are these cars worth?

[Ken Coleman]

Seventeen hundred dollars. Is that, did I hear that right?

[Caller]

Yes, yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, there's your answer?

[Caller]

Yeah, I've got one, a Jeep that I owe 56,000 on, and I've got a Honda, another Honda car that owe 23,000 on and both of them are combined at 1752.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

So you've got about $80,000 in cars and you make 147. So that's a major problem. And the parameter is no more than half your annual income tied up with things of wheels and motors. And so you guys are over that. And even if you weren't, I would tell you, you to sell these. You don't need a $56,000 Jeep right now to live your life, do you?

[Caller]

No.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so we're going to sell both of these cars. Are you underwater on either of them?

[Caller]

The one Jeep? I am. Last time I hit Carvana with it, they were offering.

[George Kamel]

Well, Carvana is going to give you pennies, dude, because they got to make a profit. Go to Kelly Blue Book, find the private party value and sell this thing yourself. Facebook Marketplace, Auto trader. Get these cars listed and make sure that you have the difference in cash or personal loan from your credit union. And then you're gonna need a little bit of money to get some beater cars. But is your wife on board that you guys are about to be living a very different life for a short period of time?

[Caller]

Yeah, she's, you know, I've already talked to her and yes, she's. She's on board. She was, you know, hurt. The. The Honda's her car. I bought it in 25, 24 and she. And the car that we had, you know, it was paid. It was paid off. And she was like, I don't even need a new car.

[George Kamel]

You know, you just got excited and went, you deserve one, babe.

[Caller]

No, there was a repair coming and we had. It was a one owner, a one on a one owner car. But we bought it at Honda and we took it down there to get it repaired and they gave us a good deal on it and, and, and wanted to buy it. So it's the way it went.

[George Kamel]

Great deal. Leaving you guys broke was a terrible deal, my friend. So you can clean this up, sell the cars, get aggressive, do the debt snowball, and then we'll attack the mortgage later on. Hey, guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage. That's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to ramseysolutions.com insurance ramseysolutions./insurance.

[Ken Coleman]

All right folks, if you fly blind and just of kind, kind of willy nilly through your taxes, boy oh boy. Confusing, stressful. You don't want to get yourself in hot water with any type of legalities. But with the help of Ramsey's easy to digest tax resources, you can learn how to handle your taxes with ease and confidence. Go to ramseysolutions.com taxes that's ramseysolutions.com taxes you're going to get a ton of great resources and tips and tricks to make your tax return returns easy. Guides on filling, excuse me, on filing rather if you're self employed or a freelancer and other tools. So ramseysolutions.com taxes Lynette joins us in Denver, Colorado. Lynette, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey guys, thank you for taking my call. I love the show. I have paid off 37,000 in 15 months thanks to y'.

All.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[George Kamel]

I didn't do jack squat every day.

[Caller]

You guys are encouraging so I appreciate y'. All. So now that I'm in baby steps three, I'm trying to look at my emergency fund after this last year I made 115,000 but after everything comes out, that includes my retirement that I was doing, it drops me down to about 74,000 and I'm now I've upped my retirement to 9%. I do get a 60 match. That brings me up to the 15%. I'm looking at doing 2500 to 3000amonth in emergency fund until now until December because I'm single and by myself. I'm just kind of wondering is that about what I should be doing? 25% of my housing is about 1400amonth. Making sure that's correct and just trying to get, you know, feedback from you guys. I'm also getting 30,000 from my dad in inheritance. I do just opened up Fairwinds checking bundle that I heard about from you guys but I haven't got the debit card yet and that I plan on putting the 30 grand into a high yield savings account with them until I get like $250,000 saved up for future housing. So just kind of want your guys take.

[George Kamel]

So you got like 17 things going on. Let's clarify. So I know. Do you have any savings right now?

[Caller]

About 2,500, because I just paid off that 37.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so let's go over the baby steps because there are some parts I want to clarify for you. So baby step two, you obviously did debt snowball. You're completely debt free.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Kamel]

Now baby step three is next, which means we are not investing yet.

[Caller]

Oh, I thought we were for the emergency fund.

[George Kamel]

No, the emergency fund is separate. So emergency fund is three to six months of expenses in a high yield savings account. And until you get that, we're not going to invest in a dime, even the match. I know that you're like, oh, my gosh, I can't give up the match.

[Caller]

Right, right, right.

[George Kamel]

But here's the thing. Doing seven things at once is not going to cause you to make progress. And the good news is you're about to get 30k. Is that your emergency fund? Would that suffice?

[Caller]

Yeah, I just was kind of hoping to put that towards a down payment because it's, you know, that's what my dad would have wanted, was to put it towards a house.

[George Kamel]

Okay. But this is all. Let's just look at it as financial foundation. He wants you to be financially stable and free. That. That's the goal. Right. And so part of that is making sure we don't have all of our money in a house and no money in savings.

[Caller]

Right.

[George Kamel]

Because being a homeowner is one of the most expensive things you can get into. And so the proper steps, if you want to continue on with the plan because it's been working for you, then put the 30 grand in that high yield savings that becomes your emergency fund. And then we can invest 15% of your income, which means the match doesn't count. That is gravy on top. So you would ratchet up your retirement to 15% and you'd get the 6% match on top of that.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

That way you build the habit and consistency. And if you have a job one day that doesn't have a match, doesn't matter to you. You have the habit of investing 15% and living on the rest.

[Caller]

Okay, perfect. I'm glad you clarified.

[George Kamel]

And then beyond that, you can save up for the down payment with any future money, because now you have this foundation, no debt, emergency funds saved up, you're investing for the future. And now you can begin saving. So how long would it take you, if you did it that way, to save up a down payment? What's the number? 250,000.

[Caller]

Well, because Colorado is crazy expensive. Most of the houses are 385 to 400,000. And with just my income, I'm guessing I'm going to have to get, like, half of the down payment to be in my 25% of my pay.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so how much could you save up each month? If savings is covered and you're investing 15%, how much could you throw into high yield savings for the down payment?

[Caller]

About 2500.

[George Kamel]

Per month.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

Okay, so doing the math that, that's 30 grand a year, which means it's going to take you seven or eight years to get there.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

And therefore, we might need to go. All right, we need to up our income. We need to compromise on the type of house we were going to go for. Maybe it's a smaller house, further out from the city for now to get our foot in the door, those kinds of things. Or you get. You make peace with the fact that it's going to take you seven years to buy a home.

[Caller]

Right. And high yield is the best place to plant that.

[George Kamel]

If it's going to take you seven years, I would say you can invest the money. Anything that's five plus years.

[Ken Coleman]

Years.

[George Kamel]

You know, in the market, you're going to. You have a better chance of being in the positive the longer you're in the market. But if it's one to two to three years, high yield savings is a much better bet. Got it.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Kamel]

But you're doing great. You have an awesome income. You're debt free. I would just sort of refocus because we got off the beaten path with the plan as soon as we got out of debt.

[Caller]

That's why I was calling you. I mean, I just paid it off, so.

[Ken Coleman]

Good for you.

[George Kamel]

And you got the 30,000 already from the inheritance.

[Caller]

It's going to be in a couple months.

[George Kamel]

Oh, in a couple months. Okay. Well, in the meantime, any extra money you have is going toward that emergency fund. And I would pause your investing down to zero percent, because it will light a fire under you and free up money to put in that emergency fund.

[Caller]

Okay. Just until I get the emergency fund, and then I can go back to.

[George Kamel]

Exactly.

[Caller]

Okay.

All right.

[George Kamel]

You're doing great. I'm proud of you, Lynette. That's awesome.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen, don't fall. Pray. Listen, Lynette. Don't fall prey to your friends telling you it's crazy that you would even think about waiting seven years to buy a house. Don't fall prey to that because again. What? The advice George gave you. I know. It's Going to take seven years, and that seems like forever, but you're still single right now.

[George Kamel]

And how old are you?

[Caller]

38.

[George Kamel]

Okay, that's okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen.

[George Kamel]

Average homeowner is what, 40 now? Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And that sucks.

[George Kamel]

Numbers changed.

[Ken Coleman]

And by the way, that sucks. And I hate that it's going to.

[Caller]

Be way longer than me, but that's okay.

[Ken Coleman]

It's okay.

[George Kamel]

Is way older than 45, so he can attest. And he's a young buck still.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you. But you just confused the entire audience, and I'm not way older. You think what. What constitutes.

[George Kamel]

Waynette. Seven years is a lifetime, right?

[Caller]

I mean, it is, but I'm like, it is what it is. You know, I. I don't want to.

[George Kamel]

Your income is going to go up over time. You could meet someone and then have dual income. And so this is not like a life sentence. Life is going to change. Your dreams are going to change. Your city could change. But in the meantime, just stack as much cash as you can.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. That's right. Big picture thinking, Lynette. All right? And let me tell you something. Let me tell you what you're dealing with, and I heard it in your voice, and I want to encourage you, because this happens to all of us. Great expectations, right? And when the expectations that we had earlier in life don't panic out, it sucks. Right? And here's what happens. And by the way, this happens to all of us, relationally, professionally, physically. Right. I think of couples that maybe want to have babies, and it takes years and years and years. You know, there's just so many examples of this. But it's okay to allow yourself to lament that. Right?

[Caller]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

But, yeah, listen, it's okay, because I heard you go, I'm 30, you know.

[Caller]

Well, because, I mean, I understand. The first time I started doing retirement, I know.

[Ken Coleman]

It's okay.

[Caller]

Like, 30k in retirement.

[Ken Coleman]

I know.

[George Kamel]

Lynette, someone out there is 58, feeling like they're too late. Someone out there is 28, thinking, man, I wish I got this stuff sooner. So do not beat yourself up for that.

[Ken Coleman]

That's what I'm trying to tell you, Lynette. I heard it, and I want to encourage your heart. You're not. Listen. Yes. You need to adjust now. The expectations you had for your life in this particular area haven't been met. But it does end. Mean that life in the future cannot still be really, really good. And so that's the mindset you got to have. Okay?

[Caller]

Definitely. I'm just thankful to have the debt paid. Honestly.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, ma'. Am. Listen, you're in great shape. You have much to be grateful for. Okay? Write down all the things that you're grateful for through this discipline of getting out of debt. Write all that stuff down tonight and how proud, by the way, it. Add a line, add. Add a column of what your dad would be proud of. Okay. And focus on that. Yeah. Get your head up.

[Caller]

God bless you guys.

[Ken Coleman]

You too.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com start, answer some questions, and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money. Starting Today, go with ramseysolutions.com start.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 28, verse 1. The wicked flee when no one pursues, but the righteous are bold as a lion. Our quote of the day from James Clear, the author of Atomic Habits. Your success depends on the risks you take. Your survival depends on the risks you avoid. All right, thank you, James.

[George Kamel]

I'll chew on that.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Anna is joining us in Knoxville, Tennessee. Anna, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm so excited to talk to you guys.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, we're excited to talk to you. What's going on?

[Caller]

Well, my husband and I are hoping to get our income up, and he's been looking to make a career change. Just been struggling with kind of the steps to take on that. Does he know if he had.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm so sorry. Yeah, I interrupted you. So I was going to ask, does he know which path he wants to take?

[Caller]

Right now, we're kind of trying to narrow it down a little bit, but we're pretty sure that he would be good in the field of technology.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, and so when you say try to narrow it down, are we talking about specific types of roles within technology? Technology?

[Caller]

Yeah, he's. He's applied for some positions with some companies and hasn't. Hasn't gone anywhere yet. Because we were thinking that it would be best to just get. Get some. Get some experience in. In the field and then kind of.

[George Kamel]

What kind of tech jobs is he looking at? Because that's about the broadest category out there.

[Caller]

So he's applied to some cell phone companies.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but again, I think we're asking, are we talking about programming? Are we talking about engineering? Are we Talking about sales. Yeah. Like what kind of role in tech.

[Caller]

So the last, the last thing that he mentioned that he was interested in was coding.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Has he taken a coding, has he taken a coding course? Class? Boot camp?

[Caller]

He was looking into that.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I'm going to tell you. Has he done anything professional? Has he ever drawn any paycheck for coding?

[George Kamel]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so one of the first things I would do, and this will kind of pause on this after I say this is what good coding boot camps courses can he take that you can afford? And let's go get that because many times in those coding courses or co ops or whatever, they, they have placement services. And so if he wants to get to coding, it might be a good idea to get qualified in coding and then see about the placement as opposed to I'm going to go get a job at a cell phone company and then tinker around with coding. Now that would be one thing. But I want to pause here. What's your financial situation? Because you mentioned you guys need more income. So what's going on? Going on there?

[Caller]

So, so we have a, we have a one and a half year old and a baby on the way. And so we're looking at just cost. Cost of living is going to be increasing and so just.

[Ken Coleman]

I guess I should have asked the question that his.

[Caller]

Paycheck doesn't change all the time.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, let me run you through a couple quick things here. So George, can some plug in here? Here. What is your combined income, your income? His income? Give me both of those, actually.

[Caller]

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

So my husband's income right now is. Between like 2700 and 3500amonth. It fluctuates a lot.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And what does he do?

[Caller]

He, he delivers pizzas.

[George Kamel]

Full time.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, that's his full time job.

[Caller]

It, it's never really been a full time job. It's been between 30 and 40 hours a week, sometimes less.

[George Kamel]

Why is he not working more?

[Caller]

He has had some medical, some medical issues that have been a setback and we're, we're working through that. It's been getting better.

[George Kamel]

Okay, are you, are you making any income.

[Caller]

Right now? I'm doing doordash.

[George Kamel]

Okay.

[Caller]

But I've had, I've had some, I've had different jobs and been having kids, so.

[George Kamel]

And do you guys have any debt?

[Caller]

We have a little bit of medical.

[George Kamel]

Debt and that's it.

[Ken Coleman]

How much is that?

[Caller]

What's that?

[Ken Coleman]

How much debt?

[Caller]

It's, it's a little under 3000.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. So we, we definitely have an Income, and that's the primary reason for you calling, is we got to get our income up and we do. But for him to get into tech, there is, there's always a ladder, no matter the industry. Right. And so with him not having any tech experience or at this point he has no tech training. That's what I've been asking.

[George Kamel]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

So it's going to be very difficult for him to get on an actual tech ladder. He might go work for a tech company, not a bad idea. But maybe he's in the warehouse or you know what I mean, he's adjacent, which is what sounds like he's been trying to do. But he's still going to have to get some basic training. So one exercise for both of you that you can do tonight is get online. And in your area, you go on one of these job websites, there's national boards, or you can go look at companies, the local companies at your tech companies. And you look at some roles. But what you're trying to do is research and see what is entry level tech encoding look like. And then we could say what is entry level work in security, like data security or you know, data analysts, you know, all the, the things. Get a good view of the landscape and always look for what is the lowest rung on the ladder because that's where he's going to enter with no experience. So then we step back further and we say, what qualifications does he need? And we start with, does he need a college degree? And many times at these tech companies you don't, but you do need some type of fundamental training. Okay. Sometimes we're seeing more and more where companies have their own training program that might be an option. But you guys as a young couple with one little one and another one on the way and very little income, and you guys are out schlepping pizzas and delivering food and I appreciate the hustle. There's no shame in that. I don't dishonor that. But I am saying you need more. And you agree that's why you called us. So this becomes an urgent research project. Are you with me so far? Anything that I said that not sure.

[Dave Ramsey]

About.

[Caller]

I'm with you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

That's urgent. Like we are urgently figuring out what the plan should be and what the plan could be in the interim. I would like to see him get a little bit more aggressive and I'm going to give him a couple of gifts. So we're going to give you my book. Find the work you're wired to do. It has a Career assessment in it. The get clear assessment. 20 minutes. It's absolutely worth it. Yes, ma'.

[George Kamel]

Am.

[Ken Coleman]

It's got an AI component component to it, and it'll spit out suggestions, and that'll help verify or give him some more ideas. Step one, I'm also going to give him the book the Proximity Principle, and he needs to read the Proximity Principle. By the end of Sunday night, he should be almost through with it. And this is about how to make good connections, because it is connections that open up and unlock jobs and opportunities. You tracking with me? So those two books are my gift, but you guys need to do the research. George, on the money piece, they still got some small debt here. I want to bring you in because we got to hustle through that.

[George Kamel]

Do you guys have anything in. In savings?

[Caller]

Yeah, actually, we do.

[Ken Coleman]

We.

[Caller]

We actually opened a high yield savings account. We have. I think we have about 25,000.

[George Kamel]

You have $25,000 in a savings account?

[Ken Coleman]

I guess I should have asked that.

[George Kamel]

You buried the lead there. That's like almost your yearly income. How did you save that up?

[Caller]

Well, I've been doing.

[George Kamel]

I feel like you're not telling us the truth. And the amount of pausing is giving me some pause.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Kamel]

What's going on?

[Caller]

Well, I'm just trying to think through, like, I've. I've had a lot of. Of different things that I've done, too.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. For the shortage of time, I'm going to interrupt because. George, tell them what they do with the 25,000.

[George Kamel]

You're paying off the medical debt today. Any debt you have is going to get paid with that savings. And anything left over is becoming your emergency fund. That gives you guys some financial cushion and some financial peace as he explores these new options. And so that's. That's your. Your ramp to get into this new field while he's delivering pizzas. And he needs to be working more if his health can support it. You need to be working more as well, because this baby's coming and it is going to get more expensive. But it's not hopeless. We just need to get him the right steps, and Ken's resources will do that.

[Ken Coleman]

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.