Income Isn’t the Problem—Your Money Plan Is

Summary

The Ramsey Show Podcast Summary

Episode: “Income Isn’t the Problem—Your Money Plan Is”
Date: April 9, 2026
Hosts: Dave Ramsey & Rachel Cruze

Episode Overview

This episode centers around a critical Ramsey Show theme: building wealth is possible for anyone, but it requires a clear, disciplined plan—not just more income. Dave Ramsey and co-host Rachel Cruze answer live calls from listeners facing financial challenges, shining light on disorganization, relationship dynamics, and practical solutions. The underlying message is blunt: “Normal is broke,” and the lack of a plan—not low income—is the main barrier to financial peace.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. You Don’t Have an Income Problem—You Have a Plan Problem

• (00:43) Brad from Atlanta admits to earning $92k but still lives paycheck-to-paycheck with minimal savings and ~$20k in mixed debt (auto, personal loan, credit cards). He’s about to become a father again and feels financially disorganized.
• Rachel Cruze (02:08): Stresses that crisis-to-crisis living and no concrete plan leads to bad decisions and higher expenses. “You end up not only making bad financial decisions but you end up spending more money when that's your mindset versus having a plan.”
• Dave Ramsey (03:47): Uses the EveryDollar budget to illustrate giving every dollar a “name and assignment.” The first detailed review will feel like a raise. He also urges Brad to define his family structure—clarity here shapes the entire money plan.

2. The Real Issue Isn’t Your Bills – It’s Alignment with Your Partner

• (05:32) Jamie from Dayton, Ohio struggles with a non-contributing spouse, five kids (plus five with an ex), and a question about moving to a cheaper rental.
• Dave (07:41): Shift focus from small cost-savings (“$250 is not your problem”) to the lack of alignment and partner contribution. “A husband that you're not working with and you're not aligned with is your problem. So let's solve the real problem.”
• Rachel (08:08): Emphasizes you can’t control another person’s behavior, only your own choices.

3. When Debt Philosophy Collides in Marriage

• (10:17) Natalie from Oklahoma City just married, hits a wall: her husband refuses to give up credit cards or acknowledge credit as “debt”—breaking a premarital agreement.
• Dave (12:56): Raises an alarm about respect and honesty: “You’ve married a guy that doesn’t give a crap about your opinion and can’t keep his word. That level of disrespect and dishonesty is gonna be well beyond money issues.”
• Rachel (15:56): Urges urgent marriage counseling, not tactical budget talk: “If you let this linger, you guys will continue to create division in a new marriage.”

4. Transition Planning and Big Career Moves

• (17:32) Robert in Tucson wants to go full-time MBA after exiting the military, leaning on his high net worth ($285k in a brokerage/retirement).
• Dave (19:30): Advises against burning through savings for full-time study. Encourages a night MBA if it means keeping income stable: “Go get a job. That’s what I would do.”

5. Mortgage Decisions – Avoiding the Dumb Loan Trap

• (21:44) Kendall in Oklahoma City faces a 10-year balloon mortgage, needing guidance on refinancing options.
• Dave (23:05): “People we’ve endorsed for 30 years do 15-year fixed [rates] for Ramsey listeners every day.” Avoid ARMs; get a fixed 15-year. “Don’t jump from the frying pan into the fire.”

6. Sinking Funds and Goals: Organization Makes the Difference

• (26:26) Jeremy in Kansas City seeks advice on building multiple funds (for truck replacement, home repairs, business retained earnings) while advancing through Ramsey’s baby steps.
• Rachel (29:13): Recommends using EveryDollar’s “goals” function to set clear targets with end dates. It’s about being able to “watch that build up.”

7. Legal Entanglements: How to Handle Surprise IRS Debt

• (32:40) Sarah in Greenville, SC discovers unforeseen $7,900 tax debt from an ex (now incarcerated for embezzlement).
• Dave (34:21): Suggests pursuing the “innocent spouse” provision with a tax pro, potentially saving her $8k. IRS debt always jumps to top of the debt snowball if it must be paid.

8. When Your Dream Job Turns Toxic – Planning an Exit

• (39:04) Jason in New York is highly paid in a union job but is isolated and unfulfilled.
• Dave (41:14): Don’t quit rashly—design your exit. Use current income to fund retraining or bridge to a role you love (ideally at equal/higher pay).

9. Should You Use Savings to Start a Side Hustle While in Debt?

• (44:12) Mike in Madison, WI wants to use a $4,400 tax return to launch a trailer rental business while still on Baby Step 2.
• Dave (46:12): Cautious—warns against risky asset-based businesses that might not yield quick returns. Advises instead to put extra income straight towards debt unless there’s a low-cost, high-return side hustle option.

10. Baby Steps and Stork Mode – When to Use Savings to Pay Off Debt

• (50:42) Riley in Maryland is pregnant, sitting on high savings, and debating if it’s wise to pay off a $10k car loan now.
• Dave & Rachel (51:53): Yes—since they have plenty of cushion, pay off the car and advance to the next baby steps.

11. Navigating Career and Public Image – Digital Tattoos

• (54:27) Josh in West Palm Beach, FL is a lawyer debating whether appearing on a polarizing YouTube show might hurt his job prospects.
• Dave (56:02): “If you have someone that you ascertain is so extreme... that they will not entertain someone who thinks differently... you don’t want to work there anyway.”
• Rachel (57:31): Adds the caution that, unless career benefit is real and tangible, avoid public “digital tattoos” that may haunt your job search.

12. Estate Planning with Blended Families

• (65:35) Samantha in Wisconsin asks how to structure wills to ensure fair inheritance to both spouses’ children.
• Dave: Recommends using a trust: surviving spouse can access income/principal as needed, with remainder split to each side’s children after the 2nd spouse passes. Avoid life insurance as primary solution.

13. Tough Money Talks with Your Partner

• (71:04) John in Myrtle Beach can’t discuss finances with his longtime partner/fiancé without emotional shutdowns.
• Rachel (74:22): Reframing language is key: Instead of “you, you, you,” share your own feelings and stories. Counseling may help unearth underlying issues.

14. Setting Boundaries with Irresponsible Family

• (75:11) Raven, age 22, worries about supporting her financially irresponsible mom after grandma passes.
• Dave (77:02): Read Henry Cloud’s Boundaries. Setting firm limits will be painful but crucial: “There is no trick phrase, there is no amount of money... that's going to make her not be perfectly pissed. There’s 100% chance your mum’s going to be pissed. So you might as well get ready for that.”

15. Silver Spoon Fears Losing Motivation

• (81:30) Jay in Denver will lose trust fund support and fears lacking the work ethic for adult life.
• Dave: “The antidote to what you’re worried about is step right straight into it head first. Go prove you have one.” Start working on campus/side hustles now, even in small ways.

16. Is $200k Grad School Worth It?

• (85:31) Tiffany in Chicago was accepted to an elite/expensive master’s in prosthetics, but must borrow $200k and opportunities are limited.
• Dave (89:27): “Paying for something that does not have a return on investment... There are almost zero jobs in America that hire you based on where you went to school.” Strong opposition to student loan debt—seek alternatives or reconsider.

17. The Coffee Habit Dilemma

• (95:31) Sarah in Portland concerned for her daughter’s specialty coffee spending as she graduates.
• Dave & Rachel: It’s too late to fix and she’ll learn through budgeting; urge her to use EveryDollar and let the numbers do the scolding. If her only “fault” is coffee, you’ve done well.

18. Generosity in Unexpected Places: The Backstreet Boys Giveaway

• (106:13) Recap from a prior episode: Listener Rachel called about justifying a Vegas Backstreet Boys trip during Baby Step 2. Kevin Richardson (Backstreet Boys) heard the segment, called the show, and gifted her and a guest free tickets. Ramsey Solutions covered her travel—no Baby Step 2 rule broken.
• Kevin (Backstreet Boys) (109:01): “When I spend money, I like to spend it on experiences. And so you should have this experience.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dave Ramsey (03:47): “Let’s pretend I hired you for $90,000 a year, and your job was to make Brad’s money behave.... You would write down every one of those dollars and tell it what to do.”
• Rachel Cruze (02:08): “There’s a chance it’s a lot of disorganization and you’re living from crisis to crisis ... breaking out of it is big.”
• Dave Ramsey (12:56, on marital trust): “You’ve married a guy that doesn’t give a crap about your opinion and can’t keep his word.... That level of disrespect and dishonesty is gonna be well beyond money issues.”
• Dave Ramsey (41:14): “I’m gonna stay where I am and use income to fund my exit.”
• Dave Ramsey (89:27): “You are paying for something that does not have a return on investment.”
• Kevin (Backstreet Boys) (109:29): “I don’t like to spend money, but when I do spend money, I like to spend it on experiences. And so you should have this experience.”
• Dave Ramsey (80:05, on boundaries): “She’s a travel agent for guilt trips... There’s no amount of talking, there’s no amount of words that are going to fix this lady until she comes to herself and says, ‘I’m ready to get better.’”
• Rachel Cruze (74:22): “The way you’re phrasing the questions is a lot of pointing at her... It needs to be back on you.”
• Dave Ramsey (advice for the newly motivated): “You need a why, you need a reason that we’re doing this. If you’ve got that, then it’ll get you up in the morning, and money will be a natural result.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:43] – Brad’s paycheck-to-paycheck struggle and budget solutions
• [05:32] – Jamie’s marital/money misalignment and Dave’s tough-love advice
• [10:17] – Newlywed Natalie’s debt philosophy clash
• [17:32] – Robert’s military transition and full-time MBA debate
• [21:44] – Kendall’s balloon mortgage and refinancing
• [26:26] – Jeremy’s multiple goals & using EveryDollar’s ‘goals’ feature
• [32:40] – Sarah’s surprise IRS debt and “innocent spouse” provision
• [39:04] – Jason’s toxic (union) work situation and planning an exit
• [44:12] – Mike’s side business vs. debt payoff debate
• [50:42] – Riley’s stork mode savings and debt payoff
• [54:27] – Josh’s digital tattoo/career debate
• [65:35] – Samantha’s blended family estate planning
• [71:04] – John’s partner can’t talk money
• [75:11] – Raven’s boundary-setting with a financially dependent parent
• [81:30] – Jay’s “silver spoon” and fear about adult work ethic
• [85:31] – Tiffany’s $200k grad school dilemma
• [95:31] – Coffee habit conundrum
• [106:13] – The Backstreet Boys surprise ticket giveaway and generosity moment

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Closing Thoughts

The episode is classic Ramsey: blunt, practical, and relentless on the need for organization, intentionality, and values-driven planning. From mastering a zero-based budget to addressing relational barriers and investing in experiences over stuff, listeners hear one consistent message—money is a tool; clarity and discipline are the path to peace.

Memorable Quote (Dave, 53:54):
"Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it? … Don’t live normal when you can live like no one else. Start EveryDollar for free…"

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For additional tools or to ask your own questions, visit ramseysolutions.com

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey network and the Fair Winds Credit union studio, this is the Ramsey show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality number one best selling author. My daughter is my co host today. Open phones a triple 882-55-5225 Brad is in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi Brad, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm doing good Dave, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So, you know, I've just been kind of struggling lately. You know, I, I make pretty decent money. Made about 92k last year. But you know, I'm still kind of catching myself living paycheck to paycheck with very minimal savings. So I'm just trying to see, you know, what's a good budgeting tool, you know, to really get me up there, you know, so I comfortable about my finances.

[Rachel Cruze]

Brad, do you how much consumer debt do you have?

[Caller]

I'd say I'm about 20k in debt.

[Rachel Cruze]

What kind of debt is it?

[Caller]

Right now it's a finance loan for a car, about 2k for a personal loan and then the rest is just, you know, odd ends. About 5k, 5, 6k in credit cards.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, are you using the credit cards to stay afloat or is this things beyond just needs that you're using the credit card for?

[Caller]

I mean I feel like, you know, every time I make a credit card payment something comes up to where I have to use it again. So I'm not really bringing that balance down constantly. No, I am not. I've been in a relationship for about seven months now and just found out a few weeks ago that my girlfriend is pregnant and this will be her first kid, my second child. I already have a one and a half year old son.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, well, there's a couple of things kind of going through my head, Brad. Number one is that there is a chance. It's a lot of disorganization and you're living from crisis to crisis. And when that happens there's an urgency that's created that you end up actually not only making bad financial decisions but you end up spending more money when that's your mindset versus having a plan exactly where every single dollar is going and cutting up the credit card, that's not your safety net anymore. And kind of getting around again this idea that you're digging yourself into a hole while you're trying to get out of debt. And so what I Would say to you is, number one, I think the budget's gonna be key for you. And before we get off the line, Christian can pick up and we can get you a year of every dollar. And to really map out and say, okay, here's what I'm bringing home every single month, and here is where this is going. And you're gonna start to see some glaring habits about where the money has been going. And you're gonna start to see, wow, I can't be spending like I've been spending. So you're gonna feel a pullback from lifestyle. But what that's gonna give you then is cash and margin to be able to build up some savings and then start working your way out of debt. But it's really this process that you have to go through because if you stay in this cycle, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. And so breaking out of it is big. But in your case, the level of chaos, I think having something grounded and facts in front of you, a plan that doesn't have feelings that you can go and stick to, is going to be really important.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

Okay, I am 30. I turned 31 this month.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, let's pretend that I hired you for $90,000 a year, and your job was to make this guy Brad's money behave. If you don't do your job, I'm gonna fire you. What would you do? You would write down every one of those dollars and tell it what to do, and you would make those dollars behave. Right now, they're just kind of running loose and running amok. They're all over the place. And so when you use the EveryDollar budgeting app, which we're gonna hook you up with, you're gonna give every one of those dollars a name before the month begins an assignment, and then you're, by God, gonna stick to it. When you do this, the first time you write it all out, you. You're going to go, where has I been spending all this money? You're going to feel like you got a raise. That's what will happen as soon as you get organized and intentional and you know, and as quickly as possible and is reasonable, make the decision if we're going to be a family or not, because that weaves into this greatly. So if we're going to be a family, that means we're getting married. That's what a family is. And so if that's where this is going, you all need to make that decision. And then you need to Weave that into your overall plan that, you know, we now have a human to raise. You've got two. But now we have this baby that we are responsible for. And so we can't be going to happy hour. We've got to clean up this debt. We've got to have money for.

[Rachel Cruze]

She for sure can't.

[Dave Ramsey]

Formula and, well, formula and baby diapers. I mean, here we go. Yeah, for sure. That's right. Jamie's in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Jamie. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm. I'm all right. I've been doing better.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, what's up?

[Caller]

So I woke up this morning and decided that my husband is not doing anything but keeping me poor because he blows his whole check and mine is expected to pay for everything else. So what I'm trying to figure out is if it's worth staying in the house I'm in Now and paying 750 or moving to a friend's house that he owns and paying 500amonth for a two bedroom for like a year so I can get my debt paid down and my life together.

[Dave Ramsey]

$250 a month is not your problem, is it?

[Caller]

No, my problem is that I've been doing this for 10 years and it's just been me and I pay. I have. So me and him have five kids together and I have five older kids that live with third dad because when I left he kept them and wouldn't let me have them. But we have a good. I still see him. I have them every other weekend. But I pay $1,000 a month in child support before I even get paid.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller]

2461 an hour. So about probably like, what's he make, 1442 an hour. Yeah, because he won't keep a job.

[Dave Ramsey]

I reckon not. He's got the worst job on the planet. I mean, crap targets paying 20 bucks an hour.

[Caller]

Yeah, he won't, he won't keep a job. And I'm just. I woke up this morning and it was like a light switch hit and I'm just tired of being tired.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, well, I mean, you opened the call with he's not pulling his weight. And then you instantly change to do I move to a $250 cheaper house. $250 is not your problem. You two getting on the same page and you two accelerating in your careers is your problem.

[Caller]

No. Well, yeah, but we'll see. I'm on track to finish the year making 28 an hour.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

My job now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but he's not. And, and so getting on track with him is like 90% of your problem, not your rent.

[Caller]

No, I know, but he, the problem is he won't get on track. I've been trying for 10 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, that's a marriage problem. That's a marriage problem. But what I'm telling you is $250 a month. Moving to the cheaper house doesn't solve your problem because it's not high. Rent is not your problem. A husband that you're not working with and you're not aligned with is your problem. So let's solve the real problem. Let's not go jumping around, oh, I'm going to move to a cheaper house and act like that fixed something. It doesn't fix anything.

[Rachel Cruze]

It feels like you're doing something though, Jamie.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I get why you're like avoiding the actual issue.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, you're grasping at the wrong thing. And the hard thing is you can't control him. You can control, you know, saving $250, that probably feels good. But the real problem is something you, you can't control, which is him. And so there's some big decisions that you guys are gonna have to make of what your life is gonna look like going forward.

[Dave Ramsey]

Keep doing what you've been doing. You're gonna keep getting what you've been getting in the marriage, in the careers and the money. And so change all of it. Change the careers, change the money, or start working together and change the marriage issue. And that's how you the definition of starting to win. The things that are broken have to be fixed and it's not your rent.

[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Natalie is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Natalie. How are you?

[Caller]

Hello. I'm doing fine. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So I. I just got married on this Saturday, and me and my partner had discussed being debt free and paying all of our debts. And then once we got married and we had our first real discussion yesterday, he claimed that he's not letting go of the credit cards because he doesn't see them as debt, which I tried to explain to him, and he said, I'm not giving them up in his eyes. He doesn't see like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

How long did you all date before you were married?

[Caller]

We got married a year. Like, in within a year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Did you guys talk?

[Caller]

Sorry. We did it for a year, and then we got married, like the 12. The 12th month.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, so this was a conversation you guys had. What was it yesterday?

[Caller]

Yeah, I. I let him know that if we got, you know, because we talked about marriage. We're older. I'm 33. He's 31, but told him when we got married that we would combine all, you know, follow day Ramsey, combine our finances until we were married, and then start paying off debt. So yesterday I said, we should start paying off your credit cards and then start on your. On your vehicle. And he just like, that's. That's fine. I'm like, but you got to promise me not to use them again. And he said, no, I'm going to, because he doesn't see them as debt. And I tried to explain to him about.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I think how. Yeah, more of the. Sorry.

[Caller]

Oh, go ahead.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, I was going to say more of the frustration is that he didn't keep his word. You know what I mean? That you guys had agreed on something, and now he's changing his mind, essentially,

[Caller]

which it's frustrating because he doesn't feel his debt. And I'm like, anytime you owe anybody anything, it's considered debt. Those two $300 payments you're making towards the card you can put in our savings. And he's like, well, it's for an emergency and this and that. So I don't. I'm trying to work the baby steps with my partner. Now I don't have debt other than my mortgage. So I'm kind of nervous combining our incomes together if he's not gonna be on the program because I worked really hard to get out of debt and buy my home.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So what bothers me about this whole thing is not the detailed issue of whether he thinks credit cards are Debt or not, I mean, that's just stupid. But the thing that bothers me is that you've married a guy that doesn't give a crap about your opinion and can't keep his word. And that level of disrespect and dishonesty is gonna be well beyond money issues. It's gonna come up in other places too, you know, and. Well, I just stopped by on the way home from the office. Had one beer. Oh, you told me you're coming straight home for dinner. Oh, well, I just want beer. You know, I do whatever the heck I wanna do. Cause I'm me. That's what this guy is. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with stopping by and having a beer if you want, but don't do that and tell your wife after you told your wife you weren't going to. And that's this guy. So that's my problem here is the underlying lack of character and the underlying lack of respect for his new wife. Instead of treasuring you and wanting to serve you and love you and be there for you, he's all about, well, that's what I want to do.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sounds like he's 14 years old.

[Caller]

Yeah, because it's on his credit and his.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, no, it's not his now. It's ours. We got married Saturday, so now you're screwed up. Everything he screws up, screws you up for the rest of your life. As long as you're married, that's what's going to happen. So, I mean, I think the core issue is, is that you guys have a. A really weak relationship. That's what's bothering me a whole lot more than just whether or not credit card is dead or not. That's just a stupid statement. But the way he's coming at this is like, I told you I was gonna do one thing. I changed my mind. I don't care what you think. This is what I want to do, and I don't like that. I don't care. It's what I want to do. And you know, his. The way he's treating you is what's bothering me. So I don't want you to accept that. I want you to create a relationship crisis and call for marriage counseling immediately and see if you need to have this annulled or not. Because if the guy can't keep his word and he can't treasure you and honor you, you're gonna have a long life, girl. This is not a good. This is not a good start. So, I mean, I'm gonna create a say. I'm gonna go see a marriage counselor because the guy I married promised me one thing, and now there's some other guy, my bed. And, you know, and so I'm going to create a crisis in this situation because he thinks this is all okay, that it's okay he does this. But he's 33, and he's been doing it a long time. He's been a single dog a long time, gets to do whatever he wants to. Nobody. Nobody around. He had to consider up until a year ago.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And until Saturday when y' all get married. So. Yeah. The urgency of this, Natalie, is. I mean, I would. I would bring in a third party as soon as possible, because if you let this linger, you guys will continue to create division in a new marriage that will continue on that way for a long time. And so if you can get this straightened out, at least get on the same page of value systems and goals together, working together. Right. Like the big stuff. And then you can start doing the. The tactical things of like, does he keep a credit card or not? But, like, the. The big idea of, hey, we are one together, and we are going to create a financial life that we both feel good about. That's what's key.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And that. That's. And that's what's broken. And that's, like, at the core of your marriage. Not that money's at the core of your marriage, but you're not agreeing about life. And you've been married three days. Hello.

[Rachel Cruze]

Supposed to be the honeymoon phase. All right, Natalie, you got some. Y' all got some work. I'm hopeful for y'. All. I really am.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, it's. Some things gonna have to change or I'm not. So I'm hopeful that you force the change into this situation, and I'm gonna have some. Have some people experiencing some pain over there so that we don't live a lifetime of pain. Robertson, Tucson. Hi, Robert, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey. Good afternoon. Can you hear me all right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yes, sir. What's up?

[Caller]

All right, first off, I just want to say thank you for taking my call. Before I get into the finer details, my question is essentially if I have a good plan to prepare to exit the military in a few years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, when will you be leaving?

[Caller]

About two years. Call it summer of 2028.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what will you be doing? What's your career going to be?

[Caller]

So I would like to pursue getting an MBA full time, utilizing the GI Bill.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not a career.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you what are you going to do for a living? What is it you want to do that's going to make you money and support you when the government's no longer writing you a check?

[Caller]

So after school I'm interested in other consulting or investment banking.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And do you have, you have an undergraduate in business?

[Caller]

I do, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So what I would be suggesting is you get lined up a job or a career field that you want to enter and as you approach summer of 28, you line up a job that pays more than you make now and you do your MBA as an adult mba studying at night.

[Caller]

Okay, can I just give you some numbers to see if this is that changes anything?

[Dave Ramsey]

It doesn't. You still got to go make a living.

[Rachel Cruze]

What are your numbers, Robert? What is it?

[Caller]

So I'm 26 years old, I'm single, I have no kids and I also have no debt. Right now I'm making about 7,800amonth. My current net worth, my current net worth consists of about 60 grand in my BSP.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you.

[Caller]

About 200. About 285 grand in a taxable brokerage, about two and a half grand in a Roth IRA. I recently opened.

[Dave Ramsey]

Excellent.

[Caller]

About four grand in cash.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay, great.

[Caller]

So I mean that's part of the reason why I'm emphasizing like going full time. Because I've spoken to other veterans in my situation, they say that's a full time program.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's not a full time program. An mba, adult MBA at night is just as good and you can get through it. And there's no reason for you to sit on that savings and burn it up just so you can be a student full time. It's not a good plan. I would go get a job. That's what I would do. Hey guys, George Camel here. Listen, we need to talk about your phone plan because for a lot of you it's like a bad roommate. You know the one. Unpredictable moods, always asking for money, hard to get rid of, and they never do the dishes. And that's what the so called big wireless carriers are like. They're counting on you overpaying forever. But Boost Mobile flipped the script. You can unlock up to $600 in savings per year over the big guys. When you switch to Boost Mobile on their unlimited plan, there's no contracts, no hidden fees and no surprise email saying, hey, your bill went up. Because reasons you see with Boost Mobile you bring your phone, keep your number and pay just 25 bucks a month. 25 bucks and that price is locked in forever. So if you're thinking, okay, George, that all sounds great. What's the catch? There isn't one. Boost Mobile backs it up with a 30 day money back guarantee, which means you can try it without feeling trapped. People kick the bad roommate out. Head to BoostMobile.com Ramsey to make the switch today. That's BoostMobile.com Ramsey based on average annual payment of AT&T Verizon and T Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan as of January 2026.

[Rachel Cruze]

See website for full details.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, tax season is upon us. If you want a free checklist and some free guides that'll help you when you fil to ramseysolutions.com taxes Kendall is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Kendall, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi, I'm good. How are you? Thank you for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I have a question. I have a mortgage that we got two years ago. We moved into our home. We can. It was newly constructed. It went from a construction loan into a 10 year balloon. Oh, no, I know. At 7.5%. And so I'm actually about to start nurse practitioner school this summer. And so we're looking at going ahead and refinancing now while the rates are lower. And we have a couple of different options that have been presented to us. And my husband and I are kind of having a disagreement. So we have gone through the Financial Peace University, but it was a few years ago. And so I know the answer is 30 year fixed.

[Dave Ramsey]

15 year fixed.

[Caller]

Well, 15 year fixed, yes, but we haven't been given that option so far. The only option we have is either a 5.25% five year arm or a

[Dave Ramsey]

6.5%, 15 years, 5.22 right now.

[Caller]

So we haven't gotten anybody to give us that.

Why?

I don't, I don't know why. Because our credit is really good.

Culture Mortgage, Churchill Mortgage.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

People we've endorsed for 30 years and they do it. They do 15 year fix for Ramsey listeners every day. Certainly in Oklahoma City. They do them for sure.

[Caller]

Yeah.

So.

Yeah, well, we'll do that then because that's, that's what we're. He's really leaning towards the 5.25% ARM. That does not sound good to me

[Dave Ramsey]

because we go from we're going out of the. Jumping out of the fire into the frying pan or the frying pan into the fire. I mean, it's like one dumb, One dumb loan into another dumb loan. No, an adjustable rate's gonna tag you later. It's Gonna give you all kinds of trouble. And a fixed rate 15 year is cheap as that. Right now I'm saying I'm looking at the screen right here where the rates are and it says 5.22 right now this week. So. And so, yeah, that's what. Now obviously a 15 year payment is gonna be more than your 30 year payment that that balloon is based on.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

But it's not going to be that much more because you're saving 2% by

[Caller]

refinancing a little bit different.

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what is your, what's your balance or the payoff?

[Caller]

So right now it's still at 229,000

as of our latest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So it's like 4500, let's call it 4800, which is $400 a month in interest savings by refinancing from 7:2 to 5:2. Okay. And so you know, roughly $400 a month, not quite, but almost $400 a month that your interest rate goes down. But then when you switch to a 15 year, it's going to go up. And so you're probably going to see an increase of 100 or $200 a month, but you're going to be in a much better long term plan.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And with you going, you said you're going to nursing school?

[Caller]

Nurse practitioner, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, really? Okay, that's awesome. Good for you.

[Caller]

Thank you. I'm excited. But it's definitely the second half of the program. I will have to go part time. So right now we make about equal.

But when I go part time, what's your household income?

So right now we're making about, let's see, I make about 4400. He makes about probably close to about $4000 a month for him. So we make.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're making about 150 a year roughly. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah, about 150 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then when you graduate, it's going to go way up. So way to go. I love it. Congratulations. Yes. It's worth it to bite the bullet and put a little strain on right now to get the right kind of mortgage in place and get rid of the high interest rate and the balloon. But don't jump from the frying pan into the fire.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And make sure you guys are planning out Kindle when you go part time, that you guys have money saves that if you need to, whether it's shifting lifestyle or have some money that's supplementing during that year or two that you have where you have to go part time. So just be thinking that out.

[Dave Ramsey]

Plan out how we're going to eat during that time.

[Caller]

Yeah, definitely.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Good. Good question. Way to go. Well, you win the argument and Churchill Mortgage can help you guys with that process, I promise you. Jeremy's in Kansas City. Hi, Jeremy, how are you?

[Caller]

Hey, not too bad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. How can we help?

[Caller]

I need some advice on how to build some funds while in step four or five and six.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. What are the funds for?

[Caller]

Well, we've got. I need to set aside money for a truck replacement or truck repairs in the future. I just replaced the truck, so a lot of that has been wiped out and I need to rebuild that fund. We also need some house repairs, like painting the outside of the house, replacing some carpet. I would like to have some retained earnings with my business. And how do I do all of that while also putting money in retirement and extra money towards the house. I'm trying to do a lot of different stuff and I'm not sure how to break it all up.

[Dave Ramsey]

We'll start with, we'll go with baby steps four or five and six, which is where you are. You don't have any debt except the house, right?

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Okay. So we're going to do 15% of your income into retirement and something extra on the house. I don't know how much, depending on where all of these other things fall. When you start doing a detailed written plan. And we suggest using the EveryDollar app, cause that will help you do it the easiest. It has built into it the ability for you to have categories where you're setting money aside for upcoming expenses. And so you set money aside for upcoming home repairs. You set money aside for an upcoming replacement of a truck. However, I kind of think the way I heard this, the truck might be your business.

[Caller]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is this like you drive truck for a living?

[Caller]

Oh, I own a lawn care company.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, okay. Okay. But the truck itself is not your daily driver. It's what you use to pull the lawnmowers around.

[Caller]

Yep. Well, that's pretty much the only time I leave the house is to do lawn care. And then if we go anywhere else, we usually take my wife's car.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. Well, the thing, the thing is the. I mean, the work truck could easily be coming out of your work budget and your work retained earnings should be at the office, separate issue. So out of your profits, you set some aside for retained earnings and that could be for equipment replacement of all kinds, mowers, weed eaters, whatever, down at the office, so to speak. And that's separate from your home. Budget. And then when you make a profit after having retained earnings and after having paid your taxes, you bring that money home and put that money once a month is fine. Into your checking account. And then on your personal, you would begin to set aside sinking funds. And, Rachel, the everydollar app does a good job with the sinking funds, right?

[Rachel Cruze]

It does. It's not my favorite function, honestly, because we have a function called goals in the everydollar, and I like the goals better because it gives you an end date. So you can look, Jeremy, and say, okay, we want to have X amount saved for home repairs because we want to do some, you know, different things around the house, and we want to have that by December. And so that the goals part of everydollar, that function I like better than, like, the sinking funds function personally, because it gives you that end date and it calculates out how much you need to be saving per month, and then it goes into that goals fund, which

[Dave Ramsey]

is, in a sense, a sinking fund.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, the sinking fund in everydollar. The way it's. It's laid out for me, I just personally don't like it as much. I like the goals category. Yeah. But it's the same idea. It's just like having an end date versus an ongoing fund. And so I like having an end date. So you guys kind of watch that build up. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You say, okay, I want $6,000 to do a home repair.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I want to do it in one year. That's 500 bucks a month.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right. And so. And then everydollar carries it each month over. So it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

And builds up.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. It's very, very, very easy. So if you hold on the line, Jeremy Christian will pick up. We'll get you a year of every do dollar because you'll be able to, like, lay it out and actually see it, and it's great. But if you have things that are ongoing, you can use the sinking funds that function. But I love the goals in every dollar. I think that's. It's my favorite personally.

[Dave Ramsey]

Guys, when you are going to win at anything, you have to do it very intentionally and you have to do it on paper before the month begins. So even, like when you're getting married, if you want to win it marriage, you need to do pre marriage counseling and plan how to be married. Your probability of success goes way up. When you plan your money. Your probability of success goes way up. When you plan your career. Your probability of success goes way up. If you're at the point where you think bankruptcy is your only option. Stop for a minute. You might have another way out. Guardian Litigation Group. Most debt relief programs sell you on the illusion of protection. But a crappy legal plan tacked on as an upsell doesn't actually defend you when you get sued, it just leaves you confused and exposed. Guardian is different. They're not some call center. They're real attorneys. And with Guardian, you're assigned an attorney from day one. That means if your creditor sues, you're not scrambling and you're not hit with surprise legal fees. Now listen, I'm always going to tell you the best way out of debt is the old fashioned way. Clean up the mess and pay it off. But if bankruptcy is staring you in the face, Guardian gives you a legitimate alternative. They've helped over 55,000 people settle more than $600 million in debt. So before you make a decision that follows you for years, go to guardianlit.com Ramsey that's guardianlit.com Ramsey Attorney Advertising Results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Sarah is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Sarah, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

Well, I had a recent notice received from the IRS for tax debt from a year when I was married to my former spouse. I was unaware of this tax debt because I thought it had been addressed. And I run a really tight budget and I have my debt snowball very planned. And I'm wondering if I pivot from that to take care of this tax debt because it had that notice of lien. It hasn't been. There has not been a lien yet. And I realized.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is it?

[Caller]

It's $7,900.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[Caller]

I make 132.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what year is this from?

[Caller]

2018.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you were obviously married then and you filed married filing jointly that year.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you were not aware that the taxes were not paid?

[Caller]

That's correct. We had settled in 2020 and the equitable distribution required that he. And now he's incarcerated. So I think that his payment plan has ceased and they're coming after me for it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I'm not positive if this will work, but before you decide to pay it, I want you to get in touch with one of our tax [e-mail] that we endorse the Ramsey Trusted. And I want you to ask and I want you to tell them every detail of the situation and see if you qualify for a thing called the innocent Spouse. Okay.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So an example would be. And this sounds like it qualifies, but I'm not, you know, without getting into every stinking detail, I'm not positive, and even if we did, I'm not sure I would know. But the innocent spouse provision of the regular of the IRS code sounds like this. A good example would be me, okay? My wife is a full time mom, I have a business, and we do married filing jointly. The number of minutes or hours she spends looking at our tax return is precisely three and a half seconds. Okay? So she signs it and assumes that me and the tax people that we're using know what the flip we're doing. Right? And then later on, a tax bill comes up and then she gets some notice in the mail like you did. Okay? Well, obviously she didn't have anything to do with it. And so she could file under the innocent spouse provision and say, yeah, we filed, Mary, filing jointly. Yes, I did sign the return, but I have no working knowledge of that stupid business or that stupid man, okay? And so I'm innocent of this tax bill. And they will take it off of you and send it to him. And of course he's incarcerated, so they're not going to get paid. But that doesn't matter. What matters is it comes off of you. I think you're going to qualify for that, okay, Based on what you told me. You see? Why? Because this is the thing. A, he was supposed to take care of it, and B, it was, well, long ago, but the circumstances were that you had no knowledge that the bills were not being taken care of properly and you signed the return.

[Caller]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's why I'm thinking you're going to qualify for this innocent spouse provision, which is an $8,000 switch in this conversation. So that's the first thing I want you to do, because I'm like 80, 90% sure you're getting out of this, okay? Now if you don't. Let's go back to your question. If I'm wrong, okay, then what do we do with the 7900? We put it at the top of the list. We pay it off as soon as you can.

[Caller]

Okay? Now my debt snowball.

[Dave Ramsey]

It goes to the top of the debt snowball, okay? And you knock it out as fast as you possibly can, or you go borrow $8,000 from the credit union and pay it off and then put that in the debt snowball. I don't care which, but you get rid of the irs. You do not want these people in your life. They have Unlimited power, no brains. And they charge all kinds of penalties and interest minute by minute by minute as you go along.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. It's the one exception of the debt snowball. Sarah. We always say if there is irs, that it gets moved to the very front.

[Caller]

Okay, okay, that was my question.

[Dave Ramsey]

Or I would refinance it on a credit card or down to credit union, one of the two. Okay. Get it cleared off, but don't put it on an IRS payment plan unless you have no other options, and then put it at the top of your debt snowball.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sure hope I'm right about the other thing, though, don't you?

[Caller]

I certainly do. I didn't know that existed. I do feel it was. It was definitely out of a left field because I've been doing quite well on my own with four kids, but that kind of threw me for a loop.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, it's so frustrating, Sarah. I'm sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you make $130,000 a year doing what?

[Caller]

I am a regional asset manager.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is he in jail for?

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, gosh.

[Caller]

Embezzlement.

[Dave Ramsey]

No way. That makes the story even better about you being an innocent spouse.

[Caller]

It sure does.

[Dave Ramsey]

The embezzlement boy is in jail. I mean, wow, that's got, like, drama on it. That's so. I'm so sorry. Y' all been through that. And he's the father of your four kids?

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm so sorry. How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 41.

[Dave Ramsey]

Man, you've been through some hell, but you are strong.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well done, Sarah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are strong and you are smart. I'm proud of you.

[Caller]

Thank you. Doing the best I know how to do to take care of these kids. And God is good, and so we're just trying to make sure I honor him with the next right decision.

[Dave Ramsey]

You are. You've been very, very wise and very, very. Wow. That's amazing. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah, Go. Go to our folk and they'll help you, I think. I'm pretty sure that's going to work. Hey, you know, sometimes this free advice around here is valuable.

[Rachel Cruze]

Could save her 8,000 bucks.

[Dave Ramsey]

There you go.

[Rachel Cruze]

Glad she called in.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Sending all the good vibes your way.

[Dave Ramsey]

Charge a commission. Yeah. All right. Jason's in New York. Hi, Jason. What's up with you?

[Caller]

Hey, Dave. How's it going, boss man?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up with you?

[Caller]

I need your opinion, boss. I'm dealing with a situation at work, and I just wanted to see your expert opinion because I feel like I'm spinning my wheels. On paper, I have the dream job. I make $47 an hour, it's unlimited overtime, we have a pension, 401k benefits, health insurance, everything. And every time I explain my situation to other people, they like, oh, you a fool. I would never quit that job. I don't care what, how they, I don't care what happened, I'll never quit. But I'm being isolated at work. I'm in a union environment, close. And every time I try to learn something new to progress. Because of the union, I had to come to a department that I didn't really have a lot of experience in, which is dealing with the boilers in the powerhouse. Traditionally, my background comes from laboratory analytical environment, so dealing with instrumentation in the lab, clean room environments like centrifuges, incubators, blah blah, blah. But because of the union, I had to come to this new environment where I'm dealing with boilers and I thought, okay, all of these old technicians have been here for years. I'm not gonna have any problem. They're going to pair me up with this guy. I'm going to be going around learning things that never happened. My manager never did any of that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, they're trying to do as little work as possible. Yeah, okay, well, here's the thing, here's the thing. You need to be doing what you're designed to do. And it's not that. But you also can't do that rashly because you're getting paid very well. Yes, sir, but I wouldn't use that as an excuse to stay stuck. But I would say, okay, what classes have I got to take on the side? What have I got to learn to be able to move into a field that I love, with people that are easier to work with, more fun to work with? And I'm learning and I make $50 an hour. And so what's the target? And if it takes three years to work to that target, okay, but yeah, if you just walk out and quit and go make $20 an hour, no, that's not smart. So I'm gonna stay where I am and use it.

[Rachel Cruze]

We're looking for an exit plan though.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm gonna stay where I am and use income to fund my exit. Yes sir, that makes sense. So what, what when you're working with lab stuff, if you were in a non union environment, that sounds like something that would be paying in the fifty dollar range to me.

[Caller]

Yes sir, it would and I would probably love it. I thought that this was job was going to be it. I thought I was going to Retire here.

[Dave Ramsey]

But, you know, so I mean, could you walk straight into that or would you have to tool up to walk into that?

[Caller]

I can walk straight into it. I've had also, if you got an

[Dave Ramsey]

offer at $50 an hour, quit and go take the $50.

[Caller]

But it was a credit. The only reason I turned it down, babe, because it was a contract assignment. It wasn't full time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well then you just hadn't found the one yet. But yeah, design your exit. That's sweeter than where you are. And exit. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Caller]

Well, I used to be one of those guys.

[Dave Ramsey]

I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey,

[Caller]

the only reason to not have life

[Dave Ramsey]

insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

[Caller]

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's a gut punch.

[Caller]

And. Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost

[Rachel Cruze]

somebody important to them.

[Dave Ramsey]

Me too. They don't know what to do next. Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

[Caller]

That's exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the

[Caller]

opportunity to just be sad.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, to just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz Ramsey, personality number one best selling author. My daughter is my co host. Today Mike is in Madison, Wisconsin. Hey Mike, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi Dave.

Thanks for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, so I have been listening to you for a couple years I'm just starting to get serious now about the baby steps. I'm on baby step number two right now, and I want to get. I want to get Gazelle Intense. I want to get my debt paid off. I want to get out of debt, but I don't. I can't really do any side work right now, and I can't really afford to make anything but bare minimum payments.

[Dave Ramsey]

So my question, why can't you do any side work?

[Caller]

I was in a motorcycle accident back in September, so any of the skills I have outside of my normal job, I'm not really capable of doing right now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you able to do your job?

[Caller]

Yeah.

So I work in sales right now, so I have a desk job, which is no big deal. But any of my skills outside of that I could use to make more money or more so, like working on vehicles, doing yardware, yard work, handyman, kind of stuff like that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so that's off the table. But lots of other side hustles. I mean, side hustles aren't all blue collar.

[Caller]

I'm.

I'm aware of that. I just don't know what else to. What other side hustle I could take up other than Gotcha.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't really want to. What's your question about?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I got a. I got a pretty decent sized tax return this year. It's about $4,400. And I can start up my own side business basically off of that. So I want to know if it's a smart idea to do that and get some extra income rolling in through doing that, or if I should just take the $4,400 and pay down some more of the debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the business?

[Caller]

The business would be like a trailer rental business. So people would kind of like a glorified U haul. Essentially, you rent out a trailer for when people need it, kind of.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I wouldn't do that. I don't mind the idea of taking a little bit of the 4400 and using it to get something started. But. But it's more. Let's just get your side hustle going as something that's white collar. But the problem is you could put this 4400 into a trailer and it never rinse one time. And that's very possible, actually. So you've got to consider all your downsides, all the possible negative scenarios, and if they don't work, then this idea doesn't work. But if you had an idea that you said, okay, I'm going to take 400 bucks or 500 bucks of the 4400. And I'm going to get something going that I'm going to immediately. The first month. I'm going to make 500 back or I'm going to make 1,000 back immediately. And worst case is I burned the 500. Well, that. That's, you know, we could try that, but this is a lot. Of course, the other thing is you need to adjust your W2 because you don't need to be getting a tax return that high. Right.

[Caller]

I've been. I've been listening to your show a lot, and I've heard you say that a bunch. I was curious what you were going to say when I said I got that big of a tax return.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you weren't. You knew what I was looking to adjust your W4 so that I'm not your W2, your W4 so that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Mike, how much debt do you have?

[Caller]

I have 12,000 in one car. I have 7,000 in another car. 35. What's that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you married?

[Caller]

Yes, I'm married.

Oh.

[Dave Ramsey]

What does she make?

[Caller]

She makes about $1,000 a month. She's our church secretary.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do you guys have kids?

[Caller]

No, no kids.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wonder if she could be doing something for more than 1,000 bucks a month. How many hours does she work right now?

[Caller]

She just bumped her hours up to about. I think it's going to be 32 a week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. This is an absolutely horrendous job.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's a sweet job. We do love church secretaries.

[Dave Ramsey]

We love church secretaries, but we shouldn't be abusing them by underpaying them. So. No, she needs to go get a job where she makes three times that immediately. What do you make?

[Caller]

Okay, I make 77 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And in sales. And that's a. That's your base or.

[Caller]

I am, I am straight salary. I don't make commission.

[Dave Ramsey]

In sales.

[Caller]

Correct. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. How long you been selling?

[Caller]

I've been in sales for probably since I just got out of high school. And I've been with this company for about a year.

[Rachel Cruze]

Are you good at it?

[Caller]

Yeah, I think. I think so.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, I wonder if there's a job opportunity because when you're commission based, selling

[Dave Ramsey]

something else, selling something else on the side, that's not competitive. Selling is selling. And I mean, if there's someone you could work for on the weekends selling, and it's a product or a service that you're excited about and that you think is valuable, you know, you could probably make as much as you're making now on Your side hustle. If you got into something that was sweet and you again, that you believe in, and it's a high quality product, a good value, and, you know, you can make the calls on the weekends or evenings, man, you can run your income way up as a side hustle. That's what I would do. Instead of buying a trailer, putting it in the yard, and hope somebody rents it, that definitely would go do that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And really, she's being very underpaid. Severely underpaid.

[Rachel Cruze]

We said she just bumped up her hours to 32, so she may have just been doing 20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Still severely underpaid.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dave Ramsey]

$24,000 a year. Nobody dancing in the streets. I'm just saying. So you know that if she was true, if she's making $2,000 a month because she was working, halftime, the equivalent, that's still. Still not.

[Rachel Cruze]

And those admin skills. See if there's like a dentist office or something, you know, and you could go and do some admin or, you know, whatever, just something creative with those skills that, yeah, easily could be making double.

[Dave Ramsey]

We have assistants and admins and people all through the building, and we don't have anyone making anywhere near that low in income. Not even close. We wouldn't be able to attract anybody if we did. So, yeah, I think that's where I would go. Wow. Wow. Riley is in Maryland. Hi, Riley. How are you?

[Caller]

Good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my husband and I are expecting our first baby.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yay.

[Caller]

We're very excited. I am really anxious to get to baby step six.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[Caller]

So technically, we're in baby step two. We have a $10,000 car loan. That's restaurant alone. And we do have that in our savings. We actually have about 43,000 in our savings, plus 19,000 in a CD.

[Dave Ramsey]

And do you have any debt other than the car?

[Caller]

No, that's no credit card debt.

[Dave Ramsey]

What would be wrong with paying it off today?

[Caller]

I feel. I feel like I remember hearing you say before that, well, when you're pregnant

[Dave Ramsey]

and you're broke, but you're not broke, you have $70,000.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And if you pay off 10,000, you'll have 60,000. Yeah, I think you're okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

And then you're going to go on to baby step four tomorrow because your baby step three is done.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Y' all are doing great.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

You need to have baby step three covered. If you're in stork mode, which is where you are, but you're there. I mean, you write a check, you're debt free, you allocate the rest of this, some of the rest of this money for your emergency fund and then you've got some leftover.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, we do say when you are expecting it on baby step two to pause everything and sell it file money because that's what we assume. You only have baby step one. Done. And you just have $1,000 which you want more of that more money when you're having a baby. But you guys have plenty of savings. So you're good.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're not really working the baby step. You're working your plan. And we're going to change it, put you on our plan.

[Rachel Cruze]

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[Dave Ramsey]

Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it? Well, you don't have to live that way. Our every dollar budget app helps you find extra money every month. Build you a personalized plan to get out of debt, become wealthy. In just 15 minutes, you're going to find thousands of dollars in hidden margin. The average is over 3,000. You'll feel like you got a raise. Don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start every dollar for free. Did I mention it's free in the App Store or Google Play? Josh is in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hey Josh, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, how are you? Dave? Thanks for having me on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. How can we help?

[Caller]

So I recently went. I'm a lawyer and I recently went on my own professionally. I'm 30 years old and during that time I was exploring kind of other things because I had a little Bit of downtime. And I applied to be on a popular political debate show on YouTube and I didn't think I would actually be asked to go on it, but then I was. And then realizing that I still have a lot to learn professionally, I, you know, was speaking to somebody and they are basically now I've done three rounds of interviews to get a job at this other law firm, and now they're both happening at the same time. And I'm kind of concerned that if I go and I do this political debate show that they will not want to hire me or retract an offer or something because, you know, I say something that they disagree with. So I was wondering if you had

[Dave Ramsey]

anyone to work with someone that has a different value system than you.

[Caller]

Well, no, I mean, if they, if

[Dave Ramsey]

they withdraw the offer because they disagree with you, they have a different value system than you.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's true. But I guess really the reason that I called is because, you know, we're expecting our first child and, you know, I want to have a regular income. You know what I mean? So it feels like, you know, should I, you know, if I agree with some of their values but not other of their values? Do you know what I mean? And so it's just kind of like I'm a little bit worried about.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, if. Let me just give you an example. Okay, let's just make up an example. Let's say that you went on a debate show and you agreed with everything in the Biden administration and you're left leaning or a progressive or whatever we want to label that and you take that position on the debate and somebody says, oh, I wouldn't ever hire anybody that does that because I'm a pro Trump guy. You don't want to work there anyway. You'd be miserable.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. I think that you're right. And don't worry, that's not what I'd be saying.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I don't care. I don't care. It works. It works both ways, right? It works both ways.

[Rachel Cruze]

And so, or I'll say this, though, is that to have an employer, I mean, I guess if it was, I guess something that you would disagree with. Because I'm like, I know our team, we have a thousand people and we all don't. We're not all on the same political spectrum. I mean, there's people that vote all different ways here. And so we would never fire someone for that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm kidding.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, Lord. Yes, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, we would not fire someone for their political. We would not not hire because we saw a YouTube thing.

[Rachel Cruze]

So. But I also. Josh would not. I don't know if. If it's that big of a gamble, because I don't know, from a. From a law perspective, I don't know what that entails in that career. I wouldn't put my career in jeopardy, though, in general. Right. For a YouTube show.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. For real.

[Rachel Cruze]

So there's a part of me that

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm like, that's a good point, too. But. But, you know, so.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, I, I'm from, like a legal perspective. I don't know what you would.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, I don't think. I'm not worried about the law. It's a matter of, you know. But here's the thing. If you have someone that you ascertain is so extreme on one side or the other that they will not entertain someone that thinks differently than them and they don't want to. You don't want to work there anyway.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so, I mean, we laugh and say, you know, Rachel and I graduated from Tennessee. And, you know, we laugh and say, we've accidentally hired a few Alabama fans. You know, I mean, so. But, you know, I mean, wait a minute. There's Bobby. He's got his Alabama hat right there in the booth right now. And so, you know, we hired him anyway, and he's been here like, God, a decade or more. We just now discovered he's Alabama guy.

[Rachel Cruze]

Get it off camera.

[Dave Ramsey]

But that's the, that's the thing. So that's the kind of thing that's the way we think about it around here is we just, we. We're not going to all get in a big fight and we're not going to all spend our lives being mad about that. But, but, but. And so I don't want to work for a firm lawyer or otherwise. That feels that way. On the other hand, aside from that, I also don't know what the upside is. What is gained by going on this. There's all downside and no upside.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Unless you get.

[Dave Ramsey]

What is it you get for doing it? Are they giving you $200,000 to appear? No. You know, and you're putting a digital tattoo out into the world that you're going to have to live with, and

[Rachel Cruze]

we know how that feels. That's our job.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. We put a digital tattoo.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. No, I mean, it's.

[Rachel Cruze]

But, but, but something that. Polarizing in today's world, I'm like, I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why?

[Rachel Cruze]

Just not. Yeah, not worth it, you know, I

[Dave Ramsey]

mean, like for instance, during the presidential election, we reached out to Kamala Harris's camp and offered to interview her. And we also reached out to President Trump's camp and offered to interview him. She declined, and he took us up on it and we did the Trump interview and I endorsed Trump, but he's not Jesus. I don't worship at his feet, which also upsets the Trumpers. So, you know, I mean, golly, some of you people really need to slow down a notch. But that's kind of where who I would want to be around, in other words. And so somebody's willing to listen to both sides. Kind of curious. And I like debates and that kind of stuff, but really, it's got nothing to do with your career. That had to do with my career. It had to do with what, what the Ramsey brand and what we're doing here. And, you know, this is what we do for a living. But what you're doing for a living is law, and doing this has nothing to do with that. So there's no upside. So I probably wouldn't do it for that reason. So, yeah, there's no upside. You know, I remember the first time I heard something like that, Rachel, that, that line of thinking, that decision making paradigm. I was in a sales class, I was 18 years old, and now this is 1978.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, take us back, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. No, I mean, it's a different world. There were not non smoking sections. Oh, yeah, There was just not non smoking. Every restaurant you could smoke in.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, oh, yeah. Every airplane that was into the 90s.

[Dave Ramsey]

Every plane. Every airplane you could smoke in. Okay, so smoking was like, today nobody does smoke. I mean, it's unusual to see somebody with a cigarette today. But in those days, everybody smelled like cigarette smoke, you know, and so, but that guy in that sales thing, he said, okay, how many of you smoke? And most people raise their hands. I didn't smoke. I never have. But not mad about it. I just never did. And he said, how many people smoke? And a bunch of people raised their hand. He goes, how many people in here think you've made a sale because you smoked? No one raised their hand. He said, how many of you think you might have lost a sale because you smoked? Bunch of people raise their hand. That's a valid thing.

[Rachel Cruze]

Because someone that doesn't smoke doesn't want to be around smell like it or something.

[Dave Ramsey]

So the point is there's no, there's only downside. There's no upside.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yep, yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Same thing here. You know, what are you gonna. What good is gonna come of this other than you get to voice your opinion and have the thrill and the fun of it? Yes.

[Rachel Cruze]

I have a moment of kind of an ego thing of like, oh, that's cool. They asked me to be on this panel and. Yeah. So it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

I probably would pass.

[Rachel Cruze]

I would, too. And you have a new baby coming. Josh, too. You know what I mean? So I'm like, just enjoy your life. Yeah. Don't muddle it. I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

I was watching. I would not turn down the debate because of future employment, though. I would turn it down because I don't know if there's. I don't see any upside.

[Rachel Cruze]

There's an upside. Yeah. That's fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't see any upside.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's fair.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's why I would turn it down. And I'm tying back to what you said a minute ago. That's how I got on that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. Yep. Side note, did you watch. Did y' all watch the JFK Love Story? The.

[Dave Ramsey]

No.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, the series. Anyways, based in the 90s, obviously. Cuz JFK Jr. It's about when he died. Anyways, they are smoking all through that series, but I reminded. I was like, it's so 90s. Like, you know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really? Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

I remember when they had no smoking sections, which I always thought was funny.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Like the smoke couldn't jump across the section.

[Rachel Cruze]

Smoking in the restaurants and stuff. And I was like, you can't.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the same stupid thing. It's like you couldn't go down the aisle in the grocery store because a little Covid might jump on you. It was the same. Same dumb thing. It's like it's in the air. The smoke is in the air. It's going over the whole restaurant.

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm going to take a smoke break. I'll be back.

[Caller]

Sam. Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

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[Rachel Cruze]

Today's question comes from Samantha in Wisconsin. She said, my husband has two daughters and I have two sons from previous marriages. We married later in life when our kids were already adults. How do we structure our wills to make sure that the living spouse is taken care of first, but the children still get their fair share when the spouse passes? We want to ensure that our kids are left with their share of each parent's estate, but we also don't want the surviving spouse to lose any assets. Would getting a life insurance policy for the value of 50% of assets be a good option to leave the to our individual children so both sides get a fair inheritance?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I would not do life insurance. No, no. What you can do is pretty simple and you need to sit down with an estate planning attorney and you got to map out the numbers as much as the concept. But often what we see people do in this situation is the money is left in a trust. The terms of the trust are that the surviving spouse gets to live out of and use the trust. Upon death. The trust is split into the two trusts. Or you could have two trusts at death, either one, and both of them are designed to support the surviving spouse. And then upon death of that spouse, then each of your two kids get theirs, yours, his two kids get his and so forth. So you can just and if it's in a trust, it can't go anywhere. So if in a worst case scenario, so let's just say, okay, you've amassed between the two of you a million dollars in a 401k and you die, that money's left into a trust trust and the money and your wife is left behind. She gets the benefit of that trust as long as she's alive and so she gets the income off of it and she's allowed to use the money under certain circumstances other than just the income, medical event or something like that. And the House could go into a trust. Go into the same trust. Everything could go into that same trust and she gets to use all of that while she's alive. So if that million dollars creates $100,000 a year income, she gets to use all that and she could use some of the million under certain circumstances that you decide in the trust. But she can't just change and decide, I'm going to leave the whole million to my kids and cut out your kids.

[Rachel Cruze]

Could she use all the million and there's nothing left for the kids?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, if you didn't, if you put it in the trust that she was able to use it, she could use it up. But. But if you left the value of the house in there and the money in there in one lump sum and she's got the benefit of that, she's going to be fine. Or you've got the benefit of that, you're going to be fine. Even if she remarried, she still only gets the benefit of that and is bound by the terms of the trust. She can't. If it's only in a will. She could change the will and say, I'm not going to leave it to the faith.

[Rachel Cruze]

But upon the death of this, in this scenario, the dad. The dad, his grown kids don't get anything until the wife dies.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. Okay, Exactly. Or you could say they get half, $200,000 and the rest of it goes into a trust.

[Rachel Cruze]

And then when she dies, they get the rest of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

They get their portion of the rest of it. But the trust cannot be undone by the surviving spouse. Like, they get remarried and the new stepfather is a jerk and he wants to scarf all the money and open a pizza place. Right. Or something. And he uses up all your inherit. The kids inherit.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, totally.

[Dave Ramsey]

And it's all stepfather scam artist guy. Right. And so you got a Cinderella story, right? And not the good part. The evil stepmother's part of Cinderella. Right. So if you've got all. If it's just in a will, she could change the will and cut out the guy's kids that died. But if it's all set up in a trust, it's very difficult to do that. So I think you can sit down and just say, okay, what are the terms of the trust? How much goes into the trust?

[Caller]

Trust.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the terms could easily be you get to live off the income and you can use some of the principle for various reasons and so forth. And be very careful about crazy stuff in there because it comes back to bite you. It doesn't age well. Like 30 years later, the crazy thing just looks like crazy 30 months later. It's kind of like, oh, I kind of understand why he did that.

[Caller]

That.

[Dave Ramsey]

But. So here's an example.

[Rachel Cruze]

Don't make it complicated.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay? They're 50 years old and he dies and she's got the house in a trust, but she can never sell the house. That would be crazy because she's going to live till 80, 30 freaking years. The house is already 20 years old. So you're going to have her in a 50 year old house? No, she needs to be able to sell that house. But if she does, the replacement house has to go into the trust or something like that. But you see, you have to give it some flexibility in there for that person. You can never do that. Stuff doesn't age well. Well, you know, you look out there 30 years and you've got a mess on your hands. But the answer to the overall question is get with an estate planner. And I think you can fix all of this with a trust or trusts, however you want to set it up and that, that's a good way to get at it. John's in Myrtle Beach. Hey, John, how are you?

[Caller]

I'm good. I appreciate you guys taking, taking my call today. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

So I have an issue, difficult time talking finances with my fiance without it, you know, turning somewhat emotional. So I'm looking for good, practical suggestions and how I can, you know, inspire her kind of look at money differently along with me, you know. Don't get me wrong.

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

35.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is the wedding set the date?

[Caller]

No, sir, it's not. And part of the reason is, is I'd like to have the same money goals or at least similar enough that this won't be an ongoing fight.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it needs to be. Or don't get married.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because it's the number one cause. It's the number one cause of divorce. It's the number one cause of marriage misery is constantly being at odds with your spouse.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. What, what is she, what, what does the fight look like? What's the conflicts look like? What do you bring up? And what does she push back against?

[Caller]

Sure. So I've been having at the baby steps on my end with, with my, my debt and you know, I'll ask her sometimes, you know, how, how's your credit cards looking? Have you been paying on them? You know, what's your contribution to the household going to be like soon? Because I, I take all the response we have. We do live together. We've been together 10 years. We've been together a long time. We do have two kids, so more or less we're. We're married. We just haven't done the paperwork work. But so as. As we start to discuss these things and I start to ask her questions, she. She gets emotional. She gets upset. Almost as if. Well, I. I think she feels guilty and. And I'm not sure, but she does get upset. Sometimes she'll cry and we don't. We don't yell or bicker back and forth. I just think that she feels a little guilty and. And habits are hard to break. And maybe she. She may feel that I have resentment, maybe towards her, which I don't, but. And I try to be careful with how I speak to her and things. And. But it becomes difficult to have the conversations when she's upset. So usually the conversation kind of dies at that point.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, man. Okay. Well, the reality is. Yeah, you. I mean, you guys are. You have two kids together, you've been living together for 10 years, you're married. So regardless of.

[Dave Ramsey]

You should just get married.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. We can't get on the same page or not. You are so like, just go ahead and tie the knot. It's happening. Yeah, it's happening. So then what I would. Yeah, what I would dig into, Josh, is number one, the way you're phrasing the questions is a lot of pointing at her. You know, what are you doing? Are you paying on the bill? You, you, you, you, you. It needs to be back on you. John. Of. Hey, here's what I'm feeling. This is the story that I'm making up in my head that you feel like that there's resentment towards me. I'm making up a story that you are shut down emotionally, and if I press any harder in the conversation, you're gonna continue to shut down and we're not gonna get anywhere. Like, right. Like, to. To be able to explain where you are is gonna be really, really important in this. And she's gotta. I mean, girl, she's 35 too.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay. We gotta either get into like a good counselor and dig some of all that stuff up of what's going on, but her way of doing conflict. Not. Not great. Not great.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I. I would suggest good pre marriage counseling just now and. Or marriage counseling and get married immediately. I mean, quit it. Geez, man. Raven is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Raven. How are you?

[Caller]

I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[Caller]

So my mom is financially irresponsible and depends financially on her mom. And I'm just kind of worried that at some point she's going to be depending on me. How do I kind of prepare for that and set boundaries when I need to about it?

[Dave Ramsey]

How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 22.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I wouldn't worry about it right now.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

I really wouldn't. I just. I'd worry about something else. There's other stuff to worry about. How old is your mother?

[Caller]

Yeah, she's about 50.

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

She doesn't work.

[Caller]

Yeah, no, she doesn't work at all.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is she married?

[Caller]

No, no.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is she disabled in some way?

[Caller]

So she. She says she is having like an undiagnosed disability, so she hasn't been able to get it diagnosed or, you know, get disability for it. So.

[Rachel Cruze]

Don't laugh. Is it like, like a. Like a. No, Like a. No, no, no. I'm telling Dave not to laugh. Raven, you can laugh about.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, I thought we.

[Rachel Cruze]

And I mean, is it like an immune disorder?

[Caller]

Like what it is. It's an autoimmune disease.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So anyway, back. Back to your question. No, I. I'm very suspect of that. The. To say the least. The. I think the thing is this number, number one, I would pick up Henry Cloud's book Boundaries and read it. And that begins to teach you and prepare you intellectually for how difficult it's going to be to set boundaries with her. No one has ever told her no, and you're gonna be the first one. And it's gonna be real difficult. Okay? So I just want you to go build a wonderful life for you. And then if you've got millions of dollars and you want to help her out with some groceries or something, that's fine. But what you don't want to do is to take her on as your responsibility because she's not your responsibility. She's 50 year old woman. That won't work. Okay. And so. And so. And she had every opportunity to do that. And that's what you're observing. You called it financial irresponsibility. You didn't call it a medical issue. And so. And you were right. So anyway, when the time comes and you have to set a boundary, I'm going to go ahead and tell you it's going to be one of the most painful things you've ever done in your life because anyone that tells your mother no does not get a good reaction from your mother.

[Caller]

No. And her. My grandma is coming up on age and we will kind of have that discussion. So. So I'm feeling like it's going to come up pretty close. And I don't know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean, when your granny passes and your mom has to figure out how to do life, you're just going to have to tell your mom, I'm 23 and I can't do this for you. You're like the old woman. You're supposed to figure this out. I can't do it today. You don't have the option of helping her. You don't have the money. But let's say it's 10 years from now and you're 32, but you. You've put together a million dollars listening to the stuff we teach, and you're able to help, but still, you're not required to help. You still are going to have to tell her no. In any case where she actually has to take responsibility for her life, she's going to be unhappy with the people that tell her that. So that's the thing I want you to prepare you for. There is no trick phrase. There is no amount of money. There is no angle or strategy that you can take that's going to make her not be perfect, pissed. There's 100% chance your mom's going to be pissed, so you might as well get ready for that, okay? The only way she's not going to be is if you become as dysfunctional as your grandmother and you take in this woman who won't work, and you continue to feed her and take care of her, and she does to do nothing more. And she walks around whining, acting like there's something wrong with her and there's not. She just lays. And so that is a disability, but it's a different kind. And so that's what you're facing, and I'm sorry for that. But anytime you have to set boundaries with a boundaryless person, the thing you have to brace yourself for is the emotional pain. Because you're gonna be told how horrible a daughter you are, and you're not. You're gonna be told you're crazy, and you're not.

[Caller]

Not.

[Dave Ramsey]

You're going to be told everything's wrong with you, and you're not, but you're still going to feel those arrows as they come at you because they sting, they hurt. And so just get ready for that. There's no way to avoid it except to join in the crazy talk and join in the crazy land. And we're not going to join in crazy land. And so the only other then the thing that's going to happen is 100% chance, your mom's not going to react well for that. She's a. She's a travel agent for guilt trips, and she's going to pull out every card in the book to get, you know, get money out of you and everything else and anything she could. Well, I raised you. Where were you when I was feeding you? Well, that's like, your job. You had a kid. That's where I was. And so all that. And so. But there's no amount of talking, there's no amount of words that are going to fix this lady until she comes to herself and says, I'm ready to get better. I'm ready to get better at this thing called life. And you can't make her do that at 22. And I don't want you to worry about it another day. I do want you to brace yourself for when the time comes. It's gonna be painful. She's not gonna go, well, so pick up Henry Cloud's book, boundaries. You will go, oh, that's me. I know that guy. That's who that is. So that's how that works. Jay is with us. Jay's in Denver. Hi, Jay. How you? Are you?

[Caller]

Hello.

I'm as good as it can be, Dave. Thank you for having me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[Caller]

I have been raised with a silver spoon my whole life. I never had to work a day. And I am realizing that my trust fund is about to end in about a year, next May or June, and I have never worked. My trust up to. My college restriction is also going to end in May next year. I'm studying to be an accountant, and I'm getting really nervous.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. You're getting a degree in accounting?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And how old are you?

[Caller]

23.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And have you. Are you struggling? Are you. Were you left a trust fund because you have a disability or a special need?

[Caller]

No.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

No, no. I. I have been given a trust fund through my background.

[Dave Ramsey]

I understand. Just your parents were wealthy, but it wasn't because you had some kind of a need. It was just they were wanting to bless you with the money.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. That's fine. I just want to make the distinction. So. Okay. So the money ran out, and now you're going to be like an adult and get a job, huh?

[Caller]

Yeah, I am. And my main worry is that I. My work ethic. I'm really worried about my work ethic and especially never had worked before. If employees are.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you've got a work ethic, or you wouldn't be getting out of School. You don't graduate and have no work ethic. You have a work ethic that causes you to study and go to class. That's a work ethic. You did not work that job yet. But so have a lot of people that went to college that didn't work when they were in college. That's not that unusual. So I love that you're worried about it. When do you graduate?

[Caller]

About May of next year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool. Okay. So what would be wrong with taking a job right now and working like all the time?

[Caller]

See, that's the thing. I'm an F1 legal resident, so I'm only allowed to get certain jobs that related to campus. And so I have been applying to jobs and I've been contacting people with my resume. We're just trying to get my confidence built by having a job, by holding on a job. I'm doing that, but I'm still.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I mean you're, you're able to start a business on the side, aren't you?

[Caller]

Is that what you do?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Go, go buy a leaf blower. Rich people are afraid of leaves, You know, Go get a lawnmower. Go buy a lawnmower and start cutting grass.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is that legal?

[Dave Ramsey]

Of course it's legal to cut grass. And it's definitely legal to blow leaves.

[Rachel Cruze]

Is it something like an F1?

[Dave Ramsey]

I have no idea.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

No idea what you're facing. But the thing, the antidote to what you're worried about is step right straight into it head first. I'm worried I don't have a work ethic. So go prove you have one.

[Rachel Cruze]

Go work at the bookstore at the university campus.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just go do something the time.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And you'll be fine. Jay, I think honestly there's a lot of 23 year olds that graduate college and they, they've never really worked before and they had to get their first adult job and all of it. So I think it's become dramatized in your head. I think you're going to do fine. But just, yeah, start working somewhere.

[Dave Ramsey]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. In the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality number one best selling author. My daughter is my co host. Today. Tiffany is with us in Chicago. Hi Tiffany, how are you?

[Caller]

Hi. I'm doing well, how are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Great. How can we help?

[Caller]

So the reason why I'm calling in is because I got accepted into an Ivy plus school for a very competitive, very niche graduate program. And I was offered a partial scholarship. And so even with the scholarship, I'm looking at about $100,000 a year for student loans. My issue is where I live currently is like a hub for what I want to do. So, like, if I was working tech, but I lived in Silicon Valley, but my issue is I can't move due to the nature of my husband's job. So if I don't get a job here, I can't get a job anywhere, if that makes sense. And so now that I've gone through this process and I'm accepted and everything's kind of sinking in, I just don't know if it's feasible to take on so much debt for something that isn't exactly guaranteed, if that makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your graduate degree would be in what?

[Caller]

So it'd be in the medical field.

[Dave Ramsey]

Be specific.

[Caller]

So it would be in prosthetics.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And so this is a master's.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So a two year program.

[Caller]

Yes, that's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And it's the, it's local to you? I thought you said you were in Silicon Valley. My screen says you're in Chicago. I'm so confused.

[Caller]

No, no. So I'm, I'm in Chicago, but the nature of my job, it's huge here in Chicago. So it's like the equivalent of if I was working tech in Silicon Valley. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're, you're in, you're in the geographic location to do this. I gotcha.

[Caller]

Yes, that's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

And your husband's job is in Chicago. And what does your husband make?

[Caller]

So he's a doctor.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you're, you're doing what today?

[Caller]

Oh, I'm, I am an office manager.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. So you're going to enter a completely different field due to getting this master's. I don't know much about that field. Is a master's required to enter that area?

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Why is there licensing?

[Caller]

Yeah, so there's a lot of, like, board certifications, licensing, that sort of thing involved.

[Dave Ramsey]

And the licensing requires a master's.

[Caller]

Mm.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Well, all I can tell you is, in general, we have never, in 30 plus years of being on the air, told someone to take out a student loan. And we're not going to start with you, so, no, I would not do it. But then I have to stop and think about, okay, what are some workarounds to get you to where you want to go? So, and in general, if you can get the license, if you get the master's, you can pass the licensing regardless of where the masters came from. And if you get the licensing and the Certification. You can get the job regardless of where the masters came from. There are almost zero jobs in America that they hire you based on where you went to school. They hire you based on your knowledge and your capability that you get by becoming educated. But regardless of where you went to school, like you said, your husband's a doctor. No one walks into his office and says, hey, Doc, where'd you go to school? Before they ask how if he can help him or not.

[Caller]

Yeah. And my. My issue with that, too, is, so there's only four schools that do what I want to do, and I applied to all of them, and I only got into one.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That doesn't mean I'm going to go $200,000 in day.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm gonna find another way to do this or I'm gonna do something else. But there's not. You are paying for something that does not have a return on investment. When you pay for an IV plus, okay. You're paying for the famous name. And the famous name has no benefit in the marketplace. None. No one hires people to do prosthetics based on where they went to school.

[Rachel Cruze]

School.

[Dave Ramsey]

No one walks into an oncologist and says, I got cancer, Doc. But wait a minute. Where did you go to school? No one asks their lawyer where they went to school. They just asked, can you help me? I've got a thousand employees. I've never hired one based on where they went to school. So we've got to find another way to not spend $200,000 on something that has zero return. Oh, and going in debt to do it. It's just unwise. So you've created this narrative, this world, that says there's only one possible way to do what I want to do, and it's go $200,000 in debt to do it. And that's, you know, all that means is you have not looked at enough options yet. You've not found another way to do this yet. And I don't know enough about your world to give you a practical advice other than to say you need to try some other doors on the.

[Caller]

This.

[Rachel Cruze]

Tiffany, how much does your husband make a year?

[Caller]

So he makes, I think, 175,000.

[Rachel Cruze]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Yeah. And so even if you were paying cash for it, I would tell you not to do. Not to pay an extra $200,000 to go to this particular school.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. But you're not paying cash for it. And so it's just like, absolutely, don't do this. Please don't do this. But please rewrite this narrative and say, there's gotta be another way for me to get at this. And I promise you, if there's only one possible way for you to do this and it's through going $200,000 in debt, that's God telling you, don't do it, don't do it. You're supposed to do something else with your life. I don't know what it is, but the last thing you need to do is follow through on this. It's a bad idea. So back up, say, okay, how can I get this certification? Is the master's really required? Now, there are a few things that require.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's in the medical field, I bet.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I don't know. I don't know anything about it. I truly don't know. But the first thing I would do is question everything. I'm gonna rebel, right? Against the system. Here's one you can't win. Okay? You can't become a licensed psychologist for doing therapy in any state without a Master's. Okay. That one you can't fix. You gotta. But there's a lot of places you can get the masters in psychology, right?

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right. That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so including online, for that matter. And so hers is a very narrow. Much more narrow field than that. And I don't know if it's an absolute requirement or if it's just highly suggested or looked upon. If it's highly suggested, looked upon, I don't give a credit crap. I do not have a master's. I do not have a PhD.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, it's hard when you're in such a narrow field like that. Yeah, it's hard to figure out options are going to be more narrow. So you may have to even expand bigger, Tiffany, and ask, okay, why do I love this? Could I do something in a similar vein that still fulfills me in that way, but it's going to look different? I don't know. So you may have to get a little creative if it doesn't work. Because if it's very. If it's. If it's that niche. There's only four schools.

[Dave Ramsey]

One of the guys, one of the company, one of the guys that comes to entree leadership. They own a prosthetics store. They do the fittings. And I've sat and talked to him. I do not remember any of this out of that. But that I just. Maybe I just didn't know what I was talking about.

[Rachel Cruze]

You probably didn't ask him.

[Dave Ramsey]

Did you have to be interesting? I truly don't know, but I do know the concept. The concept is I'm not paying $200,000 for something that has no ROI.

[Caller]

Sam. Foreign.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey, Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com. Buying or selling a home is a big deal. With all the clickbait and bad information out there. TikTok experts on real estate, lord help us. You need real information. We're here to help you make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices are up a little last month. They generally go up a little every month. Pretty typical, especially here in the busy spring season. Mortgage interest rates are down. A 15 year fixed right now is 5.22. That's down from 6% and some change. Yeah, it's jumped down almost a full point point. To learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the show notes. Sarah is with us in Portland, Oregon. Hey, Sarah. What's up?

[Caller]

Hi. It's a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Certainly. How can we help?

[Caller]

I'd like to ask how can I help my adult daughter understand how much money she is wasting on specialty coffee?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, you're not going to like my answer.

[Caller]

Well, she is graduating from college in 30 days and I know that it won't be our place to offer financial advice unless asked after that, but for the next 30 days, we'd like to give whatever advice we can.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, it's too late. Four years she's been in college buying Starbucks and you didn't say nothing? Yeah, I mean, in 30 days you want to fix four years of damage? No, I mean of damage.

[Caller]

It's just. I know. It's such a bad habit financially. It's, it's.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, does she have the money?

[Dave Ramsey]

Is this, is this lady. What's she graduating in?

[Caller]

She'll have a degree in landscape architecture.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, great.

[Dave Ramsey]

And is she a good person? Is she of good character?

[Caller]

Character?

She's a great person. She's smart. She's incredibly talented.

[Dave Ramsey]

Her only sin is specialty coffee.

[Caller]

It's I mean it's not a sin. It's just that she's going to be starting her independent financial life and I

[Rachel Cruze]

don't think she realizes, I think she will realize it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. When she starts writing a check.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

She'll start to feel when she looks down and sees her Starbucks bill, she's going to go, oh my, this is wild.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. These days you don't look down at the every expense.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, no, no. But if it shows up in her budget. Okay, so this is fun. It's a cute checking account. You're fun but. Cause you know that you can't do anything about this is the bottom line. And you're right. And I personally wouldn't bring up the coffee ever again if I were you. But what I would do is say this. I would say, hey, you're getting ready to graduate. And one of the things I wish we had taught, done a better job teaching you during the last four years was to do a detailed written budget. And so as you do, as you come out, I really want you to pick up this EveryDollar app, it's free, and start doing a detailed written budget for your sake. And I wish I'd done a better job making sure you did that all along, but I didn't. And so it's my last parting advice. Here's what will happen when she does that. Sarah, that budget will the categories in a budget, when you actually do it and actually live on it, if you can get somebody to do that, the categories yell at you. You and the specialty coffee will yell at her and go, I just spent 300 bucks this month on coffee. This is crazy. And the numbers will just yell at you. If you're doing the actual work, she'll do it.

[Rachel Cruze]

And if she doesn't, she's going to be getting a starting salary somewhere and she's going to have to learn how to live on her salary. And I think through trial and errors there she's going to learn, okay, I can't eat at such and such restaurants weekly. I have to cut that back. Gosh, this coffee is like I'm spending so much here, I gotta probably pull back here. Like I think it's gonna be some, some trial and error or Sarah, God forbid she has the money for her specialty coffee and that's what she wants to do. And if it's not illegal or immoral, there's a value system there, right? Like there's things people spend money on that I roll my eyes at like 2 year old birthday parties that look like wedding receptions. I'm like, why would you? Why? Why? You know, I roll my eyes at that. But it's not wrong that people do that if they have the money.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And it's not.

[Rachel Cruze]

And it's not my money. People look at people buying cars like, I would never spend X on a car. But if you have the money, that's what they want to spend their money on. So there is a point that it's gonna be what she values.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think if you have a daughter graduating from college and she is a great person and the biggest flaw you can find in her is this, I would just step back and say, thank you, Jesus, and say nothing. And say, I did a great job. I have a great daughter. And if she spends some money on coffee, I don't agree with, so what? I would just step back from this and let it go. I would encourage a budget because a budget will point out to any one of you, anybody doing a budget. But the numbers yell at you.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

They go, this is smart. This is dumb.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, and to your point, Sarah, what your opportunity costs of where money can go, Right? So even just throwing in a coffee a day in an investment calculator and just see what that would cost you, Right? And again, not like you're never gonna not buy coffee, but you start to see where your money has power and where you can use it wisely. But again, buying coffee is, you know, if that's what you want to do, that's fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

I saw this question come up on the screen earlier, and it took me back. And you've never heard this story, but my grandparents were in the Great Depression, of course, and they used the coffee grounds three days.

[Rachel Cruze]

They would reuse over and over.

[Dave Ramsey]

They would reuse them in a percolator.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, yeah, okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

They put them in a percolator, make a pot of coffee. The next day, left them in there, make a pot of coffee. And every time you do that, it's weaker.

[Rachel Cruze]

I was gonna say by the third day, is it even coffee? The third day.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is hilarious. The third day, it was so weak and so tepid that they called it coffee tea.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

It was not real. I mean, it was just nasty.

[Rachel Cruze]

Just water.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so when your mother and I get married and we use fresh grounds every morning, they felt about us like Sarah feels about her daughter.

[Rachel Cruze]

How wasteful you are.

[Dave Ramsey]

How wasteful we are. Cause we make fresh coffee every single day and didn't reuse the grounds and have coffee tea the third day.

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

But in that. That's so funny.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's just a perspective. It's a perspective, right?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, it is. It's just. But I mean, I wasn't raised in the Great Depression, and Sarah's daughter was raised in Portland, Oregon, which is kind of the home of specialty coffee. One of the homes of specialty coffees.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And so it's a coffee town, for sure. And, you know, it's. Yeah, that's interesting. But what a great discussion. Yeah, it's funny. That's great. I will say this, though. I want to go back to that other thing. On every dollar, everyone start doing your written budget, your detailed budget, because I will say it again. Money. The numbers will. If you actually look down at it, you will feel stupid when you're doing something stupid. I mean, the numbers will just look at you and go, that's stupid. The numbers will go. That's why. And when you start chunking money over, like in your emergency fund, when you're working on baby step three, and you see that growing, or you're chunking money on the debts and you see the debts start to go away, the numbers will tell you, and you'll start to feel good about yourself. The numbers will say, you're smart, you're smart, you're smart, you're smart. And that thing talks to you. It really does. It talks to you, and it tells you you're acting like a child or you're acting like an adult. And that's silly to spend that. And I remember one time I sat down in a Financial Peace University group, and this guy, 100 years ago, and this guy says, I figured out when we did our first month's budget why we don't have anything in retirement. We're spending $1,200 a month on eating out, just on restaurants. Oh, yeah, and this was back in the day, that'd be like $2,000 a month or $3,000 a month now on restaurants, right? He goes, I figured out why we don't have a retirement. We've been eating it, you know? And the numbers are telling you. They're looking at you going, you're dumb. This is dumb. You're consuming all of this money, and you're not doing any investments, you're not doing any generosity. And the numbers, if you can get her to do a budget sale, if her specialty coffee is out of line as a percentage of her overall income and world, it will speak up for itself and tell her, yep, she's gonna be put us in. And you will never have to say it. Cause I don't think you're gonna do any good saying it, by the way.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, I agree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, she's gonna say none your mom, none your business mom.

[Rachel Cruze]

Say mom. What are you talking about?

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, mom.

[Rachel Cruze]

No, in the budget too. The reframing of, of, you know, having your money work for you like that, that is such a big mindset. Mindset shift for people to say, what can I. I'm. This money is here for me to use as a tool to create a life that I love. What do I do with this to create a life that I love. And stability and peace gives you some of that. It gives you a life you love. And that's the investing and the generosity. You're doing the basic things and making sure that those things are covered. And then anything above that, then you're able to say, okay, what do I want to use this for? And if she wants to allot coffee in there, that's great.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's her luxury item.

[Rachel Cruze]

But yeah, but making sure that again that it's in a perspective and in a reality of her overall budget. That makes sense.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. That's fun. Good call, Sarah. That's interesting. You're fun.

[Rachel Cruze]

When I talk to people on The Ramsey Show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing. Not having a plan. They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. Money. And guys, that is so normal. But it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you called a show. And it's right in your pocket. So don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions and get your plan today.

[Dave Ramsey]

So a couple weeks ago, Rachel and I were on the air and a lady called with a devastating life threatening question. Not really, I'm being sarcastic. And Rachel and her bonded immediately.

[Rachel Cruze]

Well, her name's Rachel too, which is great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, her name is Rachel as well. And here we put the thing on social media, a little clip of it on the real. And it's gotten like a million and a half or something views already. And it's going to be 4 or 5 million by the time I finish talking about it. So we're going to play a little bit of that clip to give you guys a little bit of idea of what the conversation was about.

[Caller]

About my question is, is is there ever a time in baby step two that it would be appropriate to cash flow, like a life event or a once in a lifetime experience?

[Rachel Cruze]

What would that be?

[Caller]

So it would be to go see several good childhood friends of mine in Las Vegas named Kevin, Nick, Howie, A.J. and Brian the. At the Sphere in August.

[Dave Ramsey]

The Backstreet Boys.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Their childhood friends.

[Rachel Cruze]

Shoot. I'm so glad you called on this day, Rachel.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, Rachel's been twice. And the call went on from there. And Rachel was crying because she had to tell her in baby step two.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I don't think I actually said it.

[Dave Ramsey]

The words, but we decided it would be a fun thing to follow up with the other Rachel that called in about this, and she's in Indianapolis. Hey, Rachel, are you there on the line?

[Caller]

I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey. Well, something weird happened since you called in. So somebody went into my DMs, and I don't look at them. Our social media guys look at them, but they recognize the guy, and he wants to come on the air and talk to you. Kevin is his name. Hey, Kevin, how are you?

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

Hey, guys. How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Good to have you, brother. Thanks for being with us. So, Rachel, this is Kevin from the Backstreet Boys.

[Rachel Cruze]

This is your child.

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

This is your childhood friend Rachel.

[Caller]

Oh, my goodness. Is this real right now?

[Dave Ramsey]

This is real. You're not being punked. It is.

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

A dear friend of mine shared the clip with me. Buddy of mine who's an actor, big Rye Ryan McPartland shared the clip with me. I saw it, and I immediately posted on the clip in the feed. I can help. Maybe I can help. And then I DM'd Dave, and here we are. And I would like to invite you and a guest to come see us in Las Vegas, and we'll pick up the tap.

[Caller]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, and you can't go in baby Step 2 if you have to pay for the travel. So Ramsey's gonna pick up the travel for you. Okay?

[Caller]

Are you serious right now? Is this not the best day?

[Rachel Cruze]

Rachel, so happy for you.

[Caller]

I'm like. I'm, like, gonna start crying.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's so fun, y'.

[Caller]

All.

[Dave Ramsey]

That is so fun. I have no idea what all y' all are squealing about, but, Kevin, thank you for doing this.

[Rachel Cruze]

Kevin, you're the best.

[Caller]

You're amazing.

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

Well, you're amazing. And thank you for all you do. You work in the health industry, right? Are you a nurse or a caretaker?

[Caller]

So I'm a psychiatric nurse practitioner. I work in, like, mental health and addiction.

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

Okay.

[Caller]

All right.

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

Well, you're doing God's work right there, and you deserve a break. And you deserve a mommy daddy trip or a girlfriend's trip or whatever it is. You and a guest come and hang out with us and take a trip back in time.

[Caller]

Oh, my gosh. This is amazing. And it's such an honor to speak with you and it's great to speak with you today, but, Kevin, you're amazing.

Thank you.

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

Thank you. I believe, I believe I like to, I'm not, I don't like to spend money, but when I do spend money, I like to spend it on experiences. And so you should have this experience.

[Dave Ramsey]

Absolutely. Yeah. And Rachel can testify since she's been there twice.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know, Kevin. You guys, you heal inner, inner childs of, of millennial women across, across our world. It is, is, it is the best show. So, Rachel, I'm so excited for you.

[Caller]

Yes. Thank you so much. This is incredible. Thank you. But no, I, I, I'm speechless right now. It takes a lot to get me speechless.

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

Well, I, I hope you have a great time and, and Dave, I'm a new fan now, and Rachel here, I'm a new fan as well.

[Rachel Cruze]

Thank you.

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

Kevin, coming to our show, John, Is it Delani?

[Dave Ramsey]

Is that Deloney know Deloney or Delani Deloney?

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

I've been following him for a while. I love what he does. And he actually reached out to me, Rachel, and said you were coming to the show and I was going to try you guys, but we got our DM timeline crossed up and I didn't get to say hi to you.

[Rachel Cruze]

That is totally fine. I, so I appreciate that. He's a good friend to do that, but yeah, Kevin, we love you. We do. We love the Backstreet Boys.

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

Just so you know, following along, getting all kinds on how to, how to handle my finances as well.

[Rachel Cruze]

That's right. If you need any help, you let us know. I'm sure you'll be fine.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thank you. Thank you, Kevin. That's very generous.

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

We'll see you this summer. Whenever you let us know. We're going to be in touch. Our folks will reach out to you. And whenever this summer, July through August, you, you figure it out, you pick it out and we'll take care of it.

[Caller]

Oh, my gosh. You're like, you guys are incredible. Thank you so much. Like, I don't know. I can't say thank you enough.

Like, that's so welcome.

[Kevin (Backstreet Boys)]

We'll see you this summer.

[Dave Ramsey]

Thanks, Kevin, for reaching out. That's very generous of you. Very cool. Good stuff, guys. Very fun.

[Rachel Cruze]

Thanks, Kevin.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very fun. Well, you don't get to do that very often. Like, never.

[Caller]

We.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh. It's like a. It's like a make a wish, you

[Caller]

know what I mean? Where you're just like.

[Rachel Cruze]

I feel like we just healed Rachel. I was like, the fact that we get to take her, you know, it's amazing. Kevin's generosity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Appreciate him reaching out in the DMs.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Glad my social media guys actually recognize. Recognized. Because I. I don't look at it. And they would. Well, yeah, no, but this is like the Kevin. Yes, Hello.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

And his generosity and all is just incredible.

[Rachel Cruze]

So kind.

[Dave Ramsey]

That makes a fun moment. It makes a great moment, and she'll never forget it.

[Rachel Cruze]

Oh, my gosh.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Rachel Cruze]

So great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Now we have a whole new clip.

[Rachel Cruze]

And it is the whole. Well, the experience part. What he said is so true. And that's what Arthur Brooks talks about.

[Dave Ramsey]

The stinking fear is just off the chest.

[Rachel Cruze]

Do I. Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's just 167,000 speakers. It's like you're wearing headphones. It's incredible.

[Rachel Cruze]

It's amazing. It's amazing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Rachel's gonna have a great time, and we'll pick up the travel and he's picked up the tickets and the experience that he'll have.

[Rachel Cruze]

So great.

[Dave Ramsey]

The boys will have lined up for Ms. Rachel in Indianapolis, and very, very generous of them. And we appreciate the effort and the effort to come on the air with us and do the giveaway.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know he took time out of his day to do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So kind.

[Rachel Cruze]

So kind.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very nice. Very nice.

[Rachel Cruze]

I know.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys. Generosity heals the soul. The best part of handling your money well is it puts you in a position that you can do something. The best part of handling your fame well is it puts you in a position to do something. The best part of handling your power well is it puts you in a position to do something for someone else, which is where you will get the most joy, by the way. And so it goes right with the giving shows, the generosity stuff we talk about. But obviously, it's Kevin's spirit to do that and to be that kind of a person, and then it sets Rachel up to be able to do this. It all comes down because you were Already the biggest fan and customer. And she called in on a day you were on the air.

[Rachel Cruze]

Listen, I got someone to Taylor Swift because the Eras tour was amazing. The Backstreet Boys in Vegas. Oh, my gosh, it's life changing. It is. So when you get to. It's a spiritual life, I'm telling you, for millennials, y', all, this is like our. Oh, and I just saw it. I think it's. There's some. Yeah, there's some more. All the millennial bands, they're all like, coming back. There's like a thing in Nashville happening this summer with some of them. Yeah, it just. It is. It's so good. The nostalgia play is real.

[Dave Ramsey]

And all the boomer bands are back, but they're all 80.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, these guys can actually dance. These guys are young, dancing, and they're all good guys. Like you. Like, there's one of the songs and it's a video of all of, like, pictures of them and their moms and their kids and their wives. And you're just like, oh, my gosh. Like, they've just done so well. They've stewarded it so well. And I think that's why I love them too. Is all these years later, you know, or I'm praying for Britney still. I want her to. I want her to do well. But yeah, it's awesome. So great.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's fun. Congratulations, Rachel, and thank you again to Kevin and the Backstreet Boys for furnishing the tickets. What a great, fun thing we get to do here on the air today. Listen up, folks, if you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsey trusted tax pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsey trusted tax pros know the tax code front to back, so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to you with the heart of a teacher. But they can only do that if you get on their schedule before they book up. Go to ramseysolutions.com taxpropro to find a full time tax advisor who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com taxpro. Our scripture of the day, Romans 8:28. And we and we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. Colonel Sanders said, just because you took longer than others doesn't mean you failed. Remember that. By the way, if you didn't know he started Kentucky fried chicken at 67 years old. So it's not too late. I don't care who you are. It's not too late. Very fun. So, Rachel, are you okay now?

[Rachel Cruze]

I'm okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can you calm down now?

[Caller]

I did.

[Rachel Cruze]

I said the 12 year old me is just dying inside. Dying inside.

[Dave Ramsey]

So funny.

[Rachel Cruze]

Listen, the boy band era was real, y'. All. When you were in middle school, I mean, that was a real, real thing. So that's pretty wild.

[Dave Ramsey]

So they had to be like 20 years old, right? Or they were. Oh, yeah. They were teenagers.

[Rachel Cruze]

Teen. Oh, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. But he was the oldest bandmate and he just told me because I went and I ran into the booth to say bye to. Thank you. Yep. His. His oldest. He said was 18. Is 18. His oldest child? Son.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so age he was when all this was happening.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, wow.

[Rachel Cruze]

So. And I think he was a little bit older in the band too, if I remember right. But anyways, it was great. So fun.

[Dave Ramsey]

And to be able to hook her up on that, we need to do

[Rachel Cruze]

like a once a year giveaway on Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

If we find something like that, we'll do it. I mean, we didn't create that. He did. That was awesome. I mean, we just facilitated it. Right, but so if you call in concert tickets, we're not buying them for you.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's not what this was about. Okay. But yeah, that's. But yeah, he DMed us and I'm out there talking to social media guy and he's telling me the whole story. I didn't even know how this all happened. But very interesting. Interesting. Very fun. It was fun. Fun.

[Rachel Cruze]

Wonderful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I think she was truly speechless.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, I'm sure that was like a massive whiplash. Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

She had no idea why we called her on the air.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

We called her and said, we need you to come back on the air. And she's like, what do I do?

[Rachel Cruze]

What?

[Dave Ramsey]

What'd I do wrong? What I do wrong? All right. Emile is with us in Miami. Hi, Emil. How are you?

[Caller]

Hey, guys. I hope you're doing better than you deserve.

[Dave Ramsey]

We are. How can we help you today?

[Caller]

Yes. So I just graduated college four months ago. I'm 26 years old. I was able to secure a 70k career that's pretty stable. And I wanted to know how I can stay motivated to stay out of debt for the next 40 years. I have no student loans. I have a paid off car. Thanks. My parents and I do have 5k in credit card debt.

[Rachel Cruze]

And you're Wanting to know just how to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you can't stay motivated in a vague sense of, oh, I'm just going to be motivated. Most people can't. You need a specific reason that you're doing things. So for instance, when we went broke and I filed bankruptcy the year Rachel was born, because I was an idiot. And so my reason was to never be back in that kind of pain again and to make sure I could feed my children and to change my family tree. That was my reason. My driving force was to never be stuck by that again. And so if you were to build wealth, why would you, and what would be your goal? What is it you're trying to do with the wealth? So if you're married with a kid, you'd say, I'd love to change my family tree. You know, I'm the first one in my family to graduate from college. And so I'm going to use that as a way to, you know, further the family name and the, you know, But I don't know what your thing is, but you need to have something that's a reason, a why that you're doing this. If you have a good why, your motivation is there. So I'll recommend a book for you and a TED Talk as well that's famous by a friend of mine named Simon Sinek. Simon became famous from the TED Talk and now he's had multiple best selling books and we've spoken together in leadership conferences. He's a wonderful guy. The book that made him famous and the talk that made him famous is called Start with why. Start with why. And so you have to have a big why for scratching and clawing and sacrificing to win. Otherwise you'll just be mediocre. And in America today, it's very easy to have a really high quality life and be average and mediocre and not be all that you could be. The enemy of excellence is not laziness and all this. The enemy of excellence is, is, oh, everything's okay, so I don't have to push myself and I don't have to develop a why. I'm just like, thank God it's Friday, oh God, it's Monday.

[Rachel Cruze]

Coasting.

[Dave Ramsey]

Coasting.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you need a why, you need a reason that we're doing this. And if you've got that, then it'll get you up in the morning. And money will be a natural result of that.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yeah. And usually the motivation and the why, if it's something that can be taken away, like I'm doing it to Buy a type of car or I'm doing it for this thing that can feel very shallow very quickly. So those things that money can't buy, you know, I'm doing this for my family. I'm doing this for security and peace. I'm doing like, you know what I mean? Like, those things are great.

[Dave Ramsey]

Someday I want to give away a million dollars.

[Rachel Cruze]

Yes, the generosity.

[Dave Ramsey]

Someday I want to do this. Someday I want to do that. And that's your driving thing. And it becomes a goal. Your why becomes a goal. And then you begin to break it down year by year and go, okay, this year I'm going to make this much progress towards that goal. Next year, I'm going to make that much progress towards that goal and so on. And you little bit at a time, you get there. And that'll also keep you away from things that are harming you. If you have a good enough why. And so you know, you'll cut up the credit cards and get rid of the little $5,000 worth of debt. That's just kind of. That's just disorganized and lazy is all that is organizationally lazy. Not. Not work ethic lazy. Mitchell is in Chattanooga. Hi, Mitchell, how are you?

[Caller]

Good. Thank you guys for taking my call.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure, I can help.

[Caller]

So my wife and I are planning on moving in the next 18 months, but we're planning on moving to a different state to be closer to family. So my question is, how do we tackle that large of a move? For context, we have 85,000 or so left on our house, and it's worth about 350. So our plan would be to take the equity from the house and use that as a down payment toward the next house. But if we don't sell our house but find one in the next state and vice versa. If we have somebody wanting to buy our house here but we haven't found the next house, what do we go about with contingencies? How would that work?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, before I worried about that, I would flowchart this and say we are moving when these things happen and not until. And I don't know what these things are, but the two that come to mind could be the house sale and it could be you have your new job lined up there. You didn't mention that. You just said we want to be closer to family. You didn't mention I've got a job lined up. Do you?

[Caller]

I. Well, I work remote and I can work anywhere, so the job will just go with me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, that's easy then. Okay, so the only thing keeping you from leaving could be the sale of the house. You could just sit there until the house sells.

[Caller]

And then if we sell this house, would we, would it be smart to do a lease back while we're finding the house in the next state?

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, if you can delay the closing, that's fine. If you end up, you know what I would do is when you put your house on the market, I would begin shopping houses there and say this, this neighborhood, these four houses in this neighborhood would be great. Any of them would be great. And if our house sells, we're immediately going to make an offer on one of those and we'll set them up for closing. Housing's two days apart and you can make that happen or you can set up a. If the buyer is willing on your side to let you live there for a month while you fool around and find a house, that's fine. But I think you can do your footwork, especially if you got family over there and you maybe lived there before yourself. I don't know, you kind of know some of the areas already that you're thinking of. Go over there and look, look at, go physically go visit the houses like you're looking for a house because you are and only you're just not putting in an offer today. And then don't get all hot and bothered and buy a house before your sales. That's going to get you into a mess. At least don't close. Yeah. So now, so that I actually did this a few years ago, we ended up, it was a two step procedure for us because we were going to build and obviously we didn't have time to build while we sat in the old house. Right. So we bought another house. But we had already shopped that neighborhood before we put our house on the market. We put it on the market, it sold and we made offers on three different houses in that neighborhood and moved, bought one of them, moved into that neighborhood. And you can do that kind of a thing. And you can also put a contingency offer that's contingent upon the closing of your old house and you don't have to close on the new one until the old one sells. That puts the Sauer, the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.