It’s Never Too Late To Start

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "It’s Never Too Late To Start"

Release Date: June 27, 2025
Host/Author: Ramsey Network
Description: The Ramsey Show empowers individuals to build wealth and take control of their lives by addressing financial challenges and offering expert advice. Hosted by Christy and George Camel, alongside expert Ken Coleman, the show invites listeners to seek guidance on money, work, and relationships.

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1. Introduction

The episode kicks off with hosts Christy and George Camel introducing themselves alongside Ken Coleman. They emphasize the show’s mission to help listeners overcome financial hurdles by offering practical advice and expert insights.

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2. Caller Stories and Expert Advice

a. Christy from San Antonio, Texas ([00:46] – [05:26])

Situation:
Christy shares her predicament after her ex-fiance declared bankruptcy during their engagement, leaving her with a house she cannot afford. With no income and having separated from her partner, she faces homelessness and must decide whether to reconcile or sell the house to move forward.

Advice:
Christy advises her to sell the house immediately and connect with a real estate professional to expedite the process. She emphasizes the urgency of resolving the housing issue over pursuing further education.

Notable Quote:
"He's a loser. So is your name on the house? That's what I'm understanding, that you two bought this together." ([01:43])

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b. Alex in Knoxville, Tennessee ([10:32] – [08:36])

Situation:
Alex is overwhelmed by $100,000 in debt accrued from unsuccessful day trading, compounded by the loss of his job. He's also dealing with relationship issues as his girlfriend cheated on him, leading to emotional and financial strain.

Advice:
Christy and George recommend prioritizing essential expenses—food, utilities, housing, transportation—and halting discretionary spending like day trading. They suggest finding a better-paying job or taking on additional work to manage debt and rebuild financial stability.

Notable Quote:
"You're the solution. You getting off your butt, working 60, 70 hours for the next two years, that's what's going to clean this up." ([08:16])

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c. Brendan in Boston, Massachusetts ([22:07] – [31:18])

Situation:
Brendan is contemplating returning to nursing school to become a nurse practitioner, which would require a temporary pay cut and full-time study. He and his wife have saved for this transition and are assessing its financial viability amidst a growing family.

Advice:
Christy and George commend Brendan's careful planning and support his decision as a strategic investment in his future. They highlight the long-term benefits of pursuing a career he is passionate about, ensuring financial stability once he graduates.

Notable Quote:
"This is a three year plan to be doing something you love and you're going to be making the same amount, if not more." ([28:02])

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d. Michael in Sacramento, California ([36:33] – [88:08])

Situation:
Michael faces a complex financial predicament stemming from his husband’s involvement with the "Sovereign Citizens" movement. This ideology led to unpaid taxes, multiple debts, and legal confrontations, leaving Michael to manage the household finances amidst looming foreclosures and repossessions.

Advice:
Christy and George urge Michael to separate financially from her husband to prevent further financial deterioration. They recommend selling the house to cover debts, negotiating with creditors, and seeking legal counsel to protect herself from her husband's financial mismanagement.

Notable Quote:
"Don't help her pay off her debt. No, not at all. You're a good mom, Ally. And you keep focusing on you getting financially healthy for you and your family." ([52:52])

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e. Laura in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania ([68:24] – [75:59])

Situation:
Laura, a single mother with three children, struggles with whether to prioritize paying off her mortgage before continuing her contributions to retirement and college funds. Despite having a fully funded emergency fund and contributing 6% to her 401k, she fears the volatility in her marketing career.

Advice:
Christy and George reassure Laura of her strong financial position, advising her to maintain her retirement and college savings while gradually accelerating payments on her mortgage. They emphasize the importance of leveraging her home equity to enhance financial security.

Notable Quote:
"You have a great income. Now let's talk about this volatility and I want Ken to speak into this. Marketing is not a volatile industry." ([73:20])

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f. Mary in Charlotte, North Carolina ([88:19] – [106:59])

Situation:
Mary is entangled in severe financial distress due to her husband’s adherence to the "Sovereign Citizens" ideology, resulting in massive tax debts and multiple loan defaults. With ongoing medical issues and impending surgeries, Mary faces potential homelessness and legal repercussions.

Advice:
Christy and George stress the importance of financial independence for Mary, recommending she remove her name from joint accounts, negotiate debt settlements, and seek legal assistance. They highlight the necessity of prioritizing essential expenses and protecting herself from her husband's reckless financial decisions.

Notable Quote:
"Mary, you're in an unsafe situation. And he can say he loves you, but this is not the act of love." ([105:10])

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g. Robert from the Baby Steps Community ([107:11] – [109:59])

Situation:
Robert seeks advice on whether to use funds from his brokerage account or savings to purchase expensive items now while aiming for long-term financial growth through compound interest.

Advice:
Christy and George recommend utilizing designated savings accounts for specific goals, such as purchasing a car, to maintain clear financial objectives and avoid jeopardizing long-term investments. They emphasize the importance of aligning financial actions with predetermined goals to facilitate effective budgeting and saving.

Notable Quote:
"Have a goal for everything. So if the brokerage account existed to save up for that, then go for it, but investing for anything should be a long term play." ([109:59])

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h. Audra in Baltimore, Maryland ([110:29] – [116:18])

Situation:
Audra is contemplating upgrading her current car to her dream vehicle despite lacking an emergency fund. She is concerned about the financial implications and the potential strain on her budget.

Advice:
Christy and George advise Audra to prioritize building an emergency fund before committing to large purchases. They caution against using loans for non-essential expenses, emphasizing the importance of financial stability over immediate gratification.

Notable Quote:
"You can't afford it if you a HELOC to do it. No, Audra, that is debt. That puts you at risk and it puts your home at risk." ([115:11])

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i. Josh in Colorado Springs, Colorado ([120:40] – [126:58])

Situation:
Josh is torn between financing his dream car through a loan or using savings to gift his wife her current vehicle. With substantial student loan debt nearing forgiveness and varying incomes, he seeks guidance on making a financially sound decision.

Advice:
Christy and George recommend focusing on debt repayment and caution against taking on additional loans for luxury purchases. They suggest setting realistic savings goals to fund major expenses while maintaining financial health and ensuring that essential debts are managed effectively.

Notable Quote:
"You know what that looks like? It looks like $32,000 that you could have saved up for this wedding and your emergency fund in a year." ([117:21])

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3. Key Takeaways and Insights

• Prioritize Essential Expenses: Always cover basics like food, utilities, housing, transportation, and insurance before tackling debts or luxury purchases.

• Emergency Funds are Crucial: Building and maintaining an emergency fund provides a safety net during financial setbacks, preventing deeper debt accumulation.

• Strategic Debt Management: Utilize the debt snowball method to pay off debts efficiently, focusing on smaller balances first to build momentum.

• Avoid Emotional Financial Decisions: Make financial choices based on data and strategic planning rather than emotional impulses or external pressures.

• Financial Independence: Protecting oneself from a partner’s poor financial decisions is essential for personal financial stability and security.

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4. Conclusion

The episode underscores the importance of taking control of one’s financial situation, regardless of past mistakes or current hardships. By following the Ramsey principles—prioritizing essential expenses, building emergency funds, and strategically managing debt—listeners can navigate their financial challenges and work towards long-term stability and wealth.

Notable Closing Quote:
"You may have to call the cell phone company first. I don't know if you broke up bill on that. Talk a little bit closer to the phone or get a good spot." ([37:20])

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Note: This summary excludes commercial breaks and promotional segments to focus solely on the content and advice provided during the episode.

Transcript

[Ken Coleman]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

[George Camel]

Start budgeting for free today.

[Christy]

This is the Ramsey show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their life, specifically their money, their work and their relationships. The phone number for you to jump in and get coached up today is 888-255-225-8885. Alongside the Natalie attired George Camel. I am Ken Coleman. Excited to be with you. And let's get right to the phones. Christy is up in San Antonio, Texas. Christy, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey guys, I have a convoluted situation here.

[Christy]

We like the convoluted ones specializing. That's why we show up for days like today.

[Ken Coleman]

I was engaged and he declared bankruptcy during the engagement and I had no idea how much debt he was in. And we've since separated and he's left me with the house that I can no longer afford on my own. And I'm trying to figure out if I get him back or just try to cut my losses and get rid of the house and just continue with my life.

[Christy]

Okay, hold on. If I get him back? Is that what you said?

[George Camel]

What does that mean?

[Christy]

What does that involve?

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know. We've been. We've been having this like back and forth thing for the last three months since we've been separated and I don't know, I just feel like, I hate that. Like he kind of left me with all these responsibilities that he committed to with me and. Yeah.

[Christy]

But can I tell you this together for. So I'm glad, I'm glad he did it now as opposed to later. This dude is a loser.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Christy]

And you know it. So is your name on the house? That's what I'm understanding, that you two bought this together.

[Ken Coleman]

He gave me the down payment, so yeah, it's just mine.

[Christy]

Oh, it's all you?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it's all me.

[George Camel]

So only your name's on the deed? Only your name's on the mortgage?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Christy]

Okay, what's the house worth if you were to sell it today?

[Ken Coleman]

Probably like 310.

[Christy]

What do you owe on it?

[Ken Coleman]

350. Plus the forbearance for the last year.

[Christy]

And what's the mortgage payment?

[Ken Coleman]

3,000Amonth.

[Christy]

All right. And what is your income, your take home every month?

[Ken Coleman]

Zero.

[George Camel]

What? Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Christy]

Feels like that should have been a part of the initial information. What do you mean zero?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I'm back in school. I was making 120 a year and got laid off and so now I'm going back to finish my degree and I haven't had an income technically since, well, my unemployment ended last week, but so now it's zero.

[Christy]

Christy. Christy, Christy. So first things first. And George, I want you to jump in here because it's hard to. Hard to talk budgeting and stuff like that when you have zero income. And I know what happened to you. I've counseled so many people like you who. Something negative happens in their professional life, and then the decision becomes, well, I'm gonna go get a degree. In your case, you never finished your degree, and so you say, well, I'm gonna go finish my degree because it's gonna put me in a better professional situation. Am I right so far?

[Ken Coleman]

Right. You're right.

[Christy]

Except for the fact that at one point you were making over $100,000 a year without that degree.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[Christy]

So, Christy, we're pressing pause on the education and we're going to go get a job.

[Ken Coleman]

I know. Well, so the good thing is the house is on Airbnb, and I, I'm. I'm supposed to gross 5,000 next month. It's just the operating costs to keep the house afloat are like, where are.

[George Camel]

You going to go?

[Christy]

Where are you going to live?

[Ken Coleman]

I know. Well, that's kind of the thing. I'm, like, technically homeless right now, so I'm very angry with my ex.

[Christy]

What do you mean by technically homeless?

[Ken Coleman]

I am couch surfing, pet sitting, house sitting, doing whatever I have to do, staying at the house when people aren't here.

[Christy]

All right, George, does she sell this house and take the hit? Yeah.

[George Camel]

I'm confused. So what happened to his down payment?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, what do you mean? It's. He gave me the money for the down payment, so, like, it went towards the house.

[George Camel]

So why is the house only worth 310 but you owe 350?

[Ken Coleman]

Because we bought it for 365 and put three and a half percent down.

[George Camel]

So you buy the house for 365 with three, three and a half percent down in 2022.

[Ken Coleman]

So the market was just super hot.

[George Camel]

And now you're saying the house. The house is worth less than you paid for it by a long shot.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, and I've invested a lot of money into it remodeling and.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's what's not making sense. How did you buy it for $50,000 more than it's worth, and you put a bunch of work into it. I'm just not, I'm not buying this house is worth only 310 at this point.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I don't know. Honestly, I Probably need to get an appraisal.

[Christy]

Who. Who told you it was worth 3? 10?

[Ken Coleman]

Zillow.

[George Camel]

Let's not trust Zillow.

[Christy]

Oh, my head is.

[George Camel]

Zillow doesn't know the renovations. Okay, you need to get with a real estate pro.

[Christy]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Today, jump on. A Ramsey Solutions.com will connect you to a real estate pro you can trust to help you through this. But you need to sell this today. And, Christie, no Airbnb schemes while you're homeless on the street. This is insane.

[Christy]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

No matter which way you spin it.

[Christy]

And press pause on school, please. Yeah, okay, listen. First of all, we are. Listen, George and I are on your team.

[George Camel]

We're Team Christie.

[Christy]

Team Christie. I got the T shirt on underneath my shirt here. Go, Christie, go. Okay, but if I can be your older brother today, you can fix this. Okay, but the operator.

[Ken Coleman]

I guess I just thought he was going to come back.

[Christy]

No, he's not going to come back. He's a loser. I don't want him to come back. I said, I'm playing your older brother right now. If this dude comes back tonight, I'm on the front porch going, hey, bro, step off. You're a loser. But, but, but. Let's forget about the relationship advice, all right? If he comes back and he makes and he's a changed guy and all that, whatever. But I'm not counting on that. But he's not going to fix your financial problems. You don' a job, and you have a house you cannot afford. So regardless of loser guy becoming Prince Charming, still got to fix those problems. And you have to be intentional with some urgency. Bless your heart. I know you've been through a rough time, but I feel like I'm talking to somebody who's kind of laissez faire about this whole thing. Like, well, I'm just kind of couch surfing right now, and I'm, you know, it's like, no, like, Christy, like, you can fix this. So pause school, sell the house, get with a real estate pro today. George, go to our website, ramseysolutions.com, find somebody local, say, hey, I was just on the phone with Ken and George. I'm in a mess. I need a pro to help me sell this house and get me out of this thing. So we get out of that, you get a job, go make six figures again and get yourself right sized. Do you have any other debt or anything else going on financially that we need to be talking about?

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, just student loan debt from being off and on with school. I'm just Worried because I can't drop out again from UT or they won't readmit me.

[Christy]

Who cares? That's the least of your problems. What degree are you trying to pursue that you didn't finish?

[Ken Coleman]

A software designer by trade, getting a bachelor's in design.

[Christy]

No, don't. Nobody cares. You don't need a degree to win in software design.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I know.

[Christy]

You can go right into that field, work your way up. And by the way, nobody cares if you went to UT or not. So UT dropping you and not letting you back in is the least of your worries. George.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Yeah. You should not be sinking any more money and time into this because you are literally homeless. There's a much bigger problem isn't going.

[Ken Coleman]

To be in my best interest.

[George Camel]

No, these are all shortcuts that are masking what's underneath, which is you have created a house of cards that is quickly falling apart and we need to be drastic about this. Cut the Airbnb tires, guys. Get with the real estate pro, list it this week and be done with it. Have a home you actually live in. Rent somewhere for a while, clean up the financial mess and move on.

[Christy]

George, this is why we don't buy houses with people we're not married to.

[George Camel]

No. This is the thousandth story on the show of how this can go wrong. I'm so sorry.

[Christy]

I got to get George some Tylenol. I see a headache coming up.

[Ken Coleman]

These days, business as usual is anything but.

[George Camel]

Tariffs make trade policy a moving target.

[Christy]

Supply chains are squeezed and cash flow.

[George Camel]

Is probably tighter than ever. So if your business can't adapt in.

[Ken Coleman]

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[George Camel]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[George Camel]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[George Camel]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[George Camel]

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[Ken Coleman]

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[Christy]

Let's go to Alex in Knoxville, Tennessee. Alex, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, guys, thank you for taking my call. I'm a big fan of the show. I watch your all YouTube videos and everything about investing and stuff, and it means a lot. You all took my call anyways.

[Christy]

You bet.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm in a very, very, very bad spot, and I feel pretty much like nothing at this point. I took out a. So basically, my job, I work. It's a federal job, I guess I could say it. I work at the United States Postal Service, and we lost a lot of our packaging volume, so I knew that I was going to have to come up with some more money somehow. And stupidly, I took on day trading, and I made, like, $120,000 in three months, but I took out a $60,000 loan to get that, and long story short, I ended up losing the money, and then I took out another loan to try and make it back and lost it, too. So now I owe, like, $6,200 a month in expenses, and I make, like, 4,000. And I'm about to lose my job because I can't afford a delivery vehicle to deliver out of because it's part of the contract, and I'm freaking out. My girlfriend cheated on me, and I feel like I'm a loser, and I feel like a lame excuse for man, and I just don't know what to do anymore.

[Christy]

All right, well, first of all, take a deep breath. Glad you called us. And I want to start with the fact that you're not a loser. You've had some losses, and those losses sting, but welcome to the human race. You made some poor decisions, and really what you did is you made one bad decision and you got panicked, and. And you made another bad decision trying to bail yourself out. But I got to tell you, you're not a loser. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. This isn't a pep talk. You're not a loser. I'm sorry about the girlfriend situation. You'll look back on this many years from now and you'll thank God that it didn't go the long haul with her. So you've got two massive hurts. Just absolute. A left hook and a right cross, and you're spinning.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm still with her. I'm trying to figure everything out.

[Christy]

Well, we're not going to talk about the relationship part right now. I want to. I want to focus on. On the bigger issue, which is you're $100,000 in debt and you might lose your job. Okay. So.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Christy]

How certain are you that you're going to lose the job? Is this a foregone conclusion because you can't afford a car?

[Ken Coleman]

If, I mean, I might be able to get my dad or my grandmother or somebody to help me get a vehicle so that, that's a peace of mind there. I don't think that they would let me die, I guess.

[Christy]

Well, first of all. But when you're not gonna die. Okay. We've, we've taken calls, George, with a lot more debt on the line than.

[George Camel]

Yeah, there's not like a bookie coming after you, is there? Like, are you burying the lead here?

[Ken Coleman]

I just, I'm just so overwhelmed because of how much underwater I am every month. And I, I've been working like 60 to 80 hours a week for the past five years.

[Christy]

And for how much? What's your income?

[Ken Coleman]

So last year was 87,000 and this year with the overtime cut, looks like it's going to be about 65 or 70.

[George Camel]

Okay, and how old are you?

[Ken Coleman]

24. All right.

[Christy]

Are you currently working with the no overtime, how many hours a week are you averaging?

[Ken Coleman]

Right now I'm getting like 55. So right now I'm getting about $2,500 every two weeks take home. But that's going to be gone in about two months. Okay, so like 1800.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Christy]

So here's some good news. Good news. You feel like you can get a vehicle. You feel like you got a family member that can bail you out in the short term to keep this initial job. We want to do everything we can to keep, but you're going to have to, you've worked crazy hours before. You're going to have to work a second job, maybe a third job for the foreseeable future. And that's all.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know how because I'm so tired, I'm mentally exhausted.

[Christy]

I get it, brother, but guess what? My wife and I had three kids under the age of three. I don't want to hear a young 24 year old tell me how mentally exhausted he is. I'm just going to pull that card out. George, single moms have stood on this debt free stage many, many times and talked about how much debt they paid off. I'm not knocking or in any way minimizing how tired you feel because you've been through a lot emotionally, but you got plenty left in the tank. I've just seen people deal with far more than you're dealing with right now. All right, here's the good news. You're not married to this woman. All right? It hurts, but you don't have time for a girlfriend right now. There is no way out of this, Alex. That's what I'm trying to tell you. George. And I don't have a magic piece of advice right now for you to get out of this, other than you're going to have to get A, a better job or B, get a second or third job to get the income in. So I want you to suspend your disbelief for just a moment. And I want to bring George in and let's just say that we can get our income back up to that 80,000 or 85,000 where you were before. George, I want you to walk him through because this is a kid right here who does not believe that he can get out of this thing. Let's go walk him through what he does to begin to knock this 100,000 down.

[George Camel]

Well, let's talk about what kind of debt this is exactly. So how much debt total? You told us the monthly number. What's the total balance?

[Ken Coleman]

They're all unsecured loans. And one of them is $43,000. And then another one is $30,000, but that one's a 22% interest rate. And then I have another one at $14,000. And then I owe my dad $11,700. But I just wanted to briefly touch, like, I get that I'm not married to that girl, but I have been with her for four years and she's got a five year old, so I'm like all she knows, you know, so. Yeah, but buddy, like a failure to them.

[Christy]

But, Alex, you're not. She cheated on you. This is a separate call.

[George Camel]

And you told us she's giving up on you.

[Christy]

Yeah, we don't have time in this call to address that. The bigger issue, my friend, is your money situation. Okay, George, so let's see.

[George Camel]

You have about $100,000 in unsecured debt. And who gave you these loans?

[Ken Coleman]

Sofi bank and Citibank.

[George Camel]

And they're just all personal loans.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay, so here's the deal. You don't pay them a dime until you've paid your own bills first. Food, utilities, housing, transportation. So if we look at those areas, how can we cut down on those areas in order to create some margin? Where are you living right now?

[Ken Coleman]

I live with my girlfriend. We rent. It's actually a really, really good situation where we've been there for several years. And the rent and utilities together is only $800. It's a little trailer.

[George Camel]

Okay. I don't know if I mean the price point, sure, but the living situation doesn't sound ideal to me. But you make a great Salary for a 24 year old living in Knoxville, Tennessee. Can we agree on that? That if you didn't have debt, you'd have a great life?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. That's all I really want.

[George Camel]

Have you cut off all access to day trading or any other gambling?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes and no. I'm still looking to see if like I've got $7,000 cash left. I was trying to see if I, you know, Alex, one big.

[George Camel]

This is not. This is not Ocean's Eleven. You're not going to hit the roulette table and strike it rich and, and clean up this mess. You're just going to dig yourself into a deeper hole. That's what got us into this mess, would you agree, is desperation and greed.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So it's not the way out either. And so you have to cut off access to the thing that ruined your life, which is day trading. It's not going to be the solution. You are the solution. You getting off your butt, working 60, 70 hours for the next two years, that's what's going to clean this up. So how can we get you making. What's that?

[Ken Coleman]

It's probably going to be more than 60 to 70 because I'm working 55 now. I'm going to have to work another full time job just to make payments.

[George Camel]

Well, or like Ken said, you find a better paying job.

[Christy]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

I don't want you to think that I have to work 100 hours because I make 25 hours. $25 an hour.

[Christy]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

What are the skills that have caused you to make this? And how can we find a different job even that can pay more than that? Maybe that's not a government job in the private sector.

[Ken Coleman]

That's the problem is I never finished school, so I don't have a degree. So anything else looks like less.

[Christy]

No, you don't need a degree. You know what you need to do is go get a job in the trades. They don't care about degrees. If you show up and work hard, you'll make money. But I'm going to tell you something, Alex, I'm really concerned because I'm still hearing a guy who's so beat up that doesn't believe he can get out of this. And George just gave you the. The answer. You don't have to pay all these people right away. You got to take care of you first.

[George Camel]

It's unsecured. If it goes to collections, they'll write it off and they'll live to fight another day.

[Christy]

You're going to be fine. But I'd get out of this little, teeny, tiny trailer with this woman who cheated on you, too. My goodness, you're staring at failure all day.

[Ken Coleman]

Foreign.

[Christy]

Hey, this is Dr. John Deloney for Churchill Mortgage. Good friends, I have bought multiple homes with Churchill Mortgage because they always shoot straight with me. They tell me the truth. So let me shoot straight with you. When you're getting ready to buy a home, the first step is not house hunting. It's making a plan. Don't settle for tapping a button and just talking to a bot. I want to encourage you to sit down with a guide you can trust. My friends at Churchill Mortgage, they actually see you, they actually care about you, and they'll listen and learn your goals. And most importantly, they will tell you the truth. Churchill has loan experts who focus on you and your unique situation. So your journey ends with a home that's a blessing, not a burden. Churchill Mortgage can even help you become a certified home buyer so that when the time is right and you find the right house, you're ready to make your move. I know the housing market is tough right now. I know. But you probably have more options than you think. Churchill would love to help you figure them out, and they'll do it with honesty and integrity. Learn [e-mail] this is a paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org Equal Housing Lender, 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027. All right, Brendan is joining us in Boston, Massachusetts. That's George Campbell's neck of the woods. Love it when George gets to talk to somebody from Boston. Brendan, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, Ken and George. Hey. Thanks for taking my call. I couldn't have handpicked better folks to kind of talk through my situation with me.

[George Camel]

Oh, that's good, because you didn't get a choice.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, a lot to unpack here, but no, you know, after following the Ramsey principles to a T, should I pay to go back to school and most likely end up taking a pay cut to pursue a new career in my current stage of life?

[Christy]

Okay, I got questions. So which direction are we planning to go that requires you to go back to school?

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm. I've always been drawn to clinical side of healthcare. I've worked in, you know, on the business side of Healthcare for the last 10 years. And, you know, I woke up one day, I'm like, this really isn't doing it for me. So I applied to nursing school to eventually become a nurse practitioner. And that would require, you know, the go.

[Christy]

Going back, gotta do it. All right. That always answers my first question. Is it the only way or is it the best way? And in this case, if you want to be a nurse practitioner, it's the only way, which means it's the best way. So we know that part. Now. You said you followed the Ramsey plan, and so does that tell us that you've got the money saved up for school to be able to cash flow? What's that going to do? What's income and paying for school look like?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. Yeah. So we've been planning for this. It's been a long application cycle, so we have, you know, all the money saved for it to pay out of pocket.

[Christy]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

We've been kind of planning for all this the last couple of years.

[Christy]

Who's we?

[Ken Coleman]

My wife and I.

[Christy]

Perfect. And what's her income? Give me your combined income right now.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Annual household income is 325,000.

[Christy]

Oh, awesome. How much of that is yours?

[Ken Coleman]

Just about half of it.

[Christy]

So you're. You're both in that 150 range?

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[Christy]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

A little bit more. Yeah.

[Christy]

Okay. And. And then you saved up the money to go, so I'm not hearing anything. I got no flags yet, George. So will you be able to continue to work while you're going to school, or is this a. I gotta be full time.

[Ken Coleman]

It's an accelerated program, so they really encourage full time. So I was planning to go full time.

[Christy]

All right, have you guys budgeted for that slashing of your income by. By a half?

[Ken Coleman]

We have. We have a two year old now and a new baby on the way, so we've been saving for what we anticipate daycare costs to. So we should be able to do it.

[Christy]

And so how long is the accelerator program?

[Ken Coleman]

It's 18 months to become a nurse, and then it's another 18 months part time to become a nurse practitioner.

[Christy]

All right, so can you work after the first 18 months, will you be able to be employed as a nurse and start making money again?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Christy]

Okay. Again, I don't see any flags, George.

[George Camel]

Yeah. You guys have done your homework. You know the cost. You've made sure that your family can afford this major life change. Change. And I think it's a great goal. My brother is a nurse practitioner in Boston, and I Don't think there's anything else he'd rather be doing. So it's an awesome field you're going to get. You said you mentioned this pay cut. Are you talking about in the interim until you get back into work?

[Ken Coleman]

That's right, yeah. What I'm seeing is, you know, starting salaries for nursing is, you know, in this area, anywhere from like 70 to 80k for new grads. You know, with me making 150k now, it feels, you know, silly to pay out of pocket to go back to school to then also be taking a pay cut. And you know, that's for 18 months.

[George Camel]

Once you're an NP, what will you be making? Probably closer to what you're making now. Eventually more.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, probably close to it.

[George Camel]

So this is not a long term pace.

[Christy]

Right.

[George Camel]

And it's what you want to be doing because would you be miserable three years from now if you were in the same position you are today doing the work you're doing?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh yeah, yeah. I'm already miserable right now.

[George Camel]

And could you live off of 250 household income instead of 325 if you were doing what you loved?

[Ken Coleman]

Definitely. Yeah.

[George Camel]

I think we have our answers.

[Christy]

Yeah. I mean, Brendan, I'm not kidding you. When I used to have the Ken Coleman show, George, this would have been a textbook answer for what I would have given to somebody to actually make a transition. And Brendan, you've done it and very.

[George Camel]

Few are willing to do it and have done the work.

[Christy]

Yeah. The fact that you guys have saved up money for that bridge between going back to school, getting hired, and in 18 months ought to be 36 months, you'll be back to where you are financially, if not more and very, very happy. You've done this by the book. Everything you just answered is exactly what I would tell somebody on how to transition. If you're going to take a temporary pay cut and you guys have adjusted your lifestyle, I say bravo, George.

[George Camel]

Yeah, and this is one of those situations, Brendan, where on paper you're right, it doesn't make sense on paper mathematically. But money isn't everything once you have some. And you guys have put yourself in a position where you have the money to cash flow all of this to not being crippling debt at the end, you have a great income even without you working. And so that makes me feel a lot of peace about this. Very rarely are all the boxes being checked. And so you've got all green lights from Ken and I. I would only.

[Christy]

Disagree with you on one thing, George. I do think this makes sense on paper, this whole plan.

[George Camel]

Well, he's saying if I lose the income, we're going to cut the income in half. Once I am working again, I'll be not making what I was making. So he's going, this doesn't.

[Christy]

But only for short term.

[George Camel]

Exactly.

[Christy]

So the way I'm looking at it is that after that first 18 months, I'm not going, why did I do all this? To be making less money. That's the first part of the 18 months. Eighteen more months later, you're making the same amount, if not more. Correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Right. That's right.

[Christy]

So, bro, this is a three year plan to be doing something you love and you're going to be making the same amount of money, if not more. That to me is wise. So I was having a little fun. Of course. I don't disagree with you on that. But I mean this to me.

[George Camel]

But the short term plan on paper is.

[Christy]

Yeah, but again, you're taking the necessary steps to where this isn't actually going backwards. This is just intentionality. Even though it feels like you're going backwards, you're really not. It's part of a long term plan and I think you're going to be thrilled. And I can't, I can't praise you enough. I'm not kidding you. You're the poster child for how to change careers.

[George Camel]

And having been on the business side, I think that's only going to help you in this next chapter.

[Christy]

It's a great point.

[George Camel]

And accelerate your experience and your income. Who wouldn't want to hire a guy who understands all sides?

[Ken Coleman]

Question for the. Yeah, thank you, George. And question for you both. You know, just similar situation. Like I'm a, I'm a young dad. I know you guys both have kids. Any advice on how to deal with sort of the guilt piece of it of, you know, investing in myself to go back to school when you feel you should be pouring into your nuclear family unit.

[Christy]

I love this question. Brendan, you're such a good dude.

[George Camel]

It's funny because it's like only good.

[Christy]

Dads ask this question. Yeah. And can I just say this? Your kid is going to be so young, he's not going to remember any of this. And so the answer is, there's nothing you're pouring into the guy except milk.

[George Camel]

And that's coming right back out, bud.

[Christy]

You know that. So you just, you're being a great dad by doing all, all of this while he's so young or she so young. Whatever your situation is going to be, and you're going to be a much better father when the time comes to actually pour into them because you're not miserable.

[George Camel]

They get a picture of what it looks like for a guy who didn't settle.

[Christy]

Yeah, yeah. Imagine doing what you're doing now. You're already miserable. You think that wouldn't impact you driving home 10 years from now? The kids, 10 years of age.

[Ken Coleman]

You're right.

[Christy]

I know you're right.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, it already does.

[Christy]

Exactly. So you're actually doing the right thing because a healthy you gives that child and your children a chance to be healthy.

[George Camel]

And the best part is when you are home, you're going to be so present.

[Christy]

That's right.

[George Camel]

Because you know you're going to cherish those moments.

[Christy]

That's it.

[George Camel]

So I'm proud of you, man.

[Christy]

What?

[George Camel]

Can I ask what this whole program costs? The accelerated program from RN to NP.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah. So the accelerated portion is right around 40 and then the. It's all in state tuition and then the next portion of it is right around 30. So all in. Right around 75.

[Christy]

Fantastic.

[George Camel]

That's not bad.

[Christy]

Not bad. And you know what's interesting? George and Brendan, I'm telling you, and George will back me up on this. You're going to come out of this program and you're not even going to feel good about what you've done. You're going to realize that you're the only one who paid cash. And you're gonna be so light, you're gonna be floating through the hallways.

[George Camel]

You're gonna be the weirdest guy in.

[Christy]

The office while everybody else is drudging around in those medical. What do you call them?

[George Camel]

Scrubs.

[Christy]

Yeah, but no, the shoes that are the Crocs.

[George Camel]

Oh, the Crocs. I can't do the Crocs. It's the only reason I'm not a doctor.

[Christy]

Only reason I know. I know. In fact, if I see a doctor or nurse with Crocs, I don'.

[Ken Coleman]

When you go through a job loss or job change and lose your employer sponsored health insurance, there's no better time to try Christian Healthcare Ministries. That's right. There's another option besides COBRA to take care of your family during that time. Because if you didn't know, the cost of COBRA has gone up a lot lot in the past few years. And CHM is an affordable, biblically based alternative to health insurance. So do your own research. The CHM is a great option that's potentially a third of the price of cobra. It's a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And the support you get from CHM goes beyond helping you pay for medical bills. Members become part of a family that prays for them when they have a medical event. Try getting that with cobra. So if you're going through a job loss, life change, or just want to explore other options to save on healthcare, CHM might be perfect for you. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month, so find out [e-mail] budget that's chministries.org budget it.

[Christy]

All right, George, it's time to talk about protections. You know, you love talking about protection protections. You know, you're the guy knows more about insurance than anybody else. I can't find my against my will. I have the sheet.

[George Camel]

Here's the thing. Here's why we're talking.

[Christy]

There it is. Couldn't have been more obvious. By the way, it said coverage checkup right there on the paper.

[George Camel]

Ken is, he's, he's hooked on phonics today.

[Christy]

That's right.

[George Camel]

So when you're tackling debt, you're building wealth. People often forget about one of the most important steps to reaching those goals, which is insurance. Having the right coverage as opposed to having too little too much can impact how long it takes to get there. You got to have the Goldilocks level of insurance skimping on. It might seem like you're saving, but when life happens, very dangerous situation, you can easily fall back into debt and put yourself out there very exposed with a lot of liability.

[Christy]

Question for you. Do you find that people are over covered more often or under covered? Which one do you see?

[George Camel]

They're under covered unless they fell for a really terrible insurance product that was sold to them as something they needed, like whole life insurance. If they have that, they got sold a terrible policy. Most people are underinsured. In fact, this is no joke. Right before the show, I was on the phone with my insurance. Oh yeah.

[Christy]

I'm not surprised.

[George Camel]

Over at Xander, she's real life, George. Yeah, I don't want to give it a name because then people will be calling her saying, hey, I want to.

[Christy]

And what were you doing? What were you doing? You checked.

[George Camel]

I have a, I have a roof claim right now situation. Hail damage. Yep. It might need to be replaced. And so she is so helpful working with the, the field adjusters from the insurance company, the realtors, everyone. So she's just the best. So the right insurance will act as a shield around your loved ones, around your wallet, around your wealth if disaster strikes. In some cases, it can even save you money for paying too much for bogus ones like cell phone insurance. And one of my favorite things to do is send people to our coverage checkup tool. It's a free online resource, creates a personalized insurance action plan that's unique to you and your situation. And if you think, why would I want to take a coverage checkup? Well, I helped a friend of mine. I said, hey, what. What are you paying for your insurance? She told me, and I was flabbergasted. And so she took the coverage checkup and got in touch with an insurance pro, a broker who was sourcing the best deal among many different companies. Ended up saving her over a thousand bucks a year with one phone call.

[Christy]

I bet she was then flabbergasted with.

[George Camel]

Better coverage than she had. So one reason to do it is it's going to free up a whole bunch of margin in your budget. So go check it out. Ramseysolutions.com checkup take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

[Christy]

Gotta tell you a great usage of a word there. You know, flabbergasted is. It's, It's. You don't even. I don't even know what it means, but everybody knows what it means.

[George Camel]

It's up there with gobsmack for me.

[Christy]

I like a good gobsmack usage as well. That's. That's one. Nobody knows what that means either. But if your gob has been smacked, then something significant has happened.

[George Camel]

It's a big deal. That's all I know.

[Christy]

Big deal, Michael. Sometimes, folks, I'm going to confess. George and I are just entertaining ourselves. And if you get something out of it, great.

[George Camel]

You're likely not.

[Christy]

You probably aren't. Michael is up in Sacramento, California. Michael, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, fellas.

[George Camel]

How you guys doing today?

[Christy]

Well, we're having a little too much fun.

[Ken Coleman]

I hear it. So my question is, me and my wife are in a lot of debt. We're trying to do the snowball, but the problem is we aren't making enough to make minimums as it is. We have our house expense, our credit card expense, and everything that comes with five kids. So my question for you today is, would it be smart for me to go into collections on a select few of credit cards, and then in a year after we paid off a lot of them, Start saving to call the collection agencies and pay off what I actually owe.

[Christy]

Well, you may have to call the cell phone company first. I don't know if you broke up bill on that. Talk a little bit closer to the phone or get a good spot.

[George Camel]

You're wanting to intentionally stop paying on your debts, have them go to collections and go. I'll worry about it later and try to negotiate.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, basically because I can barely make the minimums on my debt debt.

[George Camel]

Well, it's a terrible solution to an already terrible problem. So the, the better question is how do we get our income up and our expenses down in order to create some margin? Because these debts are not going to go away. All that's going to happen is it'll destroy your credit. The debts are still there, and then the companies will come after you, probably sue you, and you'll end up in court trying to fight this, and you're probably going to end up paying more than what you owe after all the fees are incurred.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Christy]

Michael, how. Michael, quick question. How old is your oldest child?

[Ken Coleman]

My oldest is 19.

[Christy]

19. Okay, this is perfect. I want you to flip the question that you just gave George and I. And I want you to picture your son coming to you and saying, hey, Dad, I committed to do this, this, this and this. I don't have any time. I got no time. I'm over committed. Can I just like ghost all these people that I committed to? What do you think, dad? What would you say to him if he threw a scenario like you threw at us? Or my version I just gave to you? What would you say to your 19 year old?

[Ken Coleman]

I'd probably say that's not the best idea.

[Christy]

Why is it not the best idea?

[Ken Coleman]

Because if you basically, if you're committing to these people, then your, your, your.

[George Camel]

Word is your bond and you need.

[Ken Coleman]

To figure it out and figure out how to get it taken care of with all the people that you've committed to?

[Christy]

Great answer. I agree with you. And I think there's one other thing that. And I think you'll agree with me on this one. I think the other reason you'd give your son that advice and the reason that you believe that's the right advice is because he wouldn't learn anything at all if he just ghosted everybody and just did a clean slate. Am I right or am I wrong?

[Ken Coleman]

No, you're absolutely right.

[Christy]

So I'm not trying to be kidding. I'm just trying to help you understand that that's essentially what you just brought to George and I And if you do this, it's the easy way out. It's not really easy. It's going to be a nightmare dealing with it. But that's what I'm hearing. And I just, I hope that helps you. It's not who you are, man. You signed up for this stuff. Your word is your bond. And I think that you wouldn't learn anything if you went this route. Not to mention it's not as easy as you think.

[George Camel]

I think we're talking to a guy with his back against the wall and you're going, hey, man, this is, this is all I got left. This is the only card I have left to play. And we believe in Michael maybe more than Michael believes in Michael right now. So let's talk through the actual numbers and see if we can find a different solution here. What is your household income?

[Ken Coleman]

So we are making about 68 to 70,000 a year.

[George Camel]

Okay. And what is the total debt balance for consumer debt? Non mortgage, 75,000. Okay. And what is your mortgage payment every month? We rent. Okay. What's your rent every month?

[Ken Coleman]

Way too much. Because I live in California, it's about $3,200.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, for a family of seven, that feels reasonable in California.

[Ken Coleman]

I've seen prices of with the same house. Are you 27?

[Christy]

You double income or one income?

[Ken Coleman]

We are one income. I, I work full time at a machine shop. My wife works part time at a our church.

[Christy]

Can she bump up her hours or get a better full time job?

[Ken Coleman]

She as at this point we are hoping she doesn't have to. She homeschools our kids.

[Christy]

I didn't ask you that. You sound like a politician on a Sunday morning show. I'm saying can she get a full time job at the church or a better full time job for a season of life to help dig you out of this?

[Ken Coleman]

I would say at this point, no, because daycare would be too expensive.

[Christy]

We don't have any friends or family members that can watch the littles.

[Ken Coleman]

Not near us, not close.

[George Camel]

And the church doesn't have a daycare.

[Ken Coleman]

Not during the week.

[George Camel]

Okay, well if she's working full time, she could go get a full. That could cover the child care and give you guys some margin.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, yeah.

[George Camel]

And I think that might be the solution.

[Christy]

You guys got to get more income, brother.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I'm, I'm working on that now. I, I work 66 hours a week and I have a second job.

[George Camel]

What's keeping you guys in this specific area of California?

[Ken Coleman]

Nothing. I want to leave, but my wife.

[George Camel]

Doesn'T want to for one reason.

[Ken Coleman]

We live in a really nice small.

[George Camel]

Town and it's a town you can't afford.

[Ken Coleman]

It is really.

[George Camel]

It's over half your take home pay every single month.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

She's not going to have a house soon if we don't do something drastic.

[Christy]

She's not going to get to do homeschool and everything else. This is a real serious marriage conversation.

[George Camel]

We need to come to Jesus, Jesus meeting tonight with the wife. And she's gonna have to choose reality. And either she's working full time and we create some margin here to clean this mess up, or I think we're gonna have to look at other options, which means public school, downsizing, anything we can do to cut the expenses and increase the income. That's your only way out of here. Not defaulting on the.

[Ken Coleman]

Switching banks can be a hassle. And I totally get that. But when Winston and I opened up our Fairwinds account, we were shocked by how quick and easy it was. It just took a few minutes online. We didn't have to block off an entire afternoon or track down paperwork. And the next day we got a personal call from a Fair Wind specialist just checking in. I couldn't believe it. When I answered my phone and I was talking to them, I was like, you're the nicest people. Now, if you're working hard to save money, get out of debt and build a future, you should have a bank that supports that, not fights it. That's why I recommend Fairwinds. They created these smart checking and savings bundles specifically for Ramsey fans. Plus they have a great app. And you have access to over 33,000 fee free ATMs and more than 5,000 shared credit union branches across the country. So you. You can have access and withdraw your money just like you're used to. No matter where you live, don't settle for a bank that slows down your progress. Make sure you choose one that helps build you up and helps you win with money. Visit Fairwinds.org Ramsey and open your smart bundle today. Fairwinds.org Ramsey Fairwinds.org Ramsey FairWinds is federally insured by the NCUA.

[Christy]

This is the Ramsey show, where we help America win with their money, win in their profession, and win in their relationships. The phone number to jump in is 888-2552-258882-55225. He put the bomb in bomber Jack jacket. George Campbell.

[George Camel]

Too soon, Ken. Too soon. We got a lot going on in the world today. I shouldn't even worn a bomber jacket.

[Christy]

Oh, I didn't even. I didn't see you doing that. I was. Wow. Well played.

[George Camel]

Right in. Right in it.

[Christy]

Right in it, folks. That's why I like being with him. He's quick, folks. You should see him on a skateboard. He's even quicker.

[George Camel]

That's actually true.

[Christy]

I'm Ken Coleman alongside, of course, the man, the myth, not quite the legend. Legend.

[George Camel]

Yeah, let's not go.

[Christy]

That George Campbell, he's got a long way to go.

[George Camel]

I am a mythical folklore type creature under a bridge.

[Christy]

You are. You are. Yeah.

[George Camel]

You got to pay the troll toll.

[Christy]

You're like a modern day hobbit.

[George Camel]

Thank you.

[Christy]

Yeah, Very cool.

[George Camel]

Add that to my Instagram, you get a fresh haircut. I did. I thought. I'm hosting with Ken Coleman today.

[Christy]

You got the high and tight.

[George Camel]

Put our best foot forward.

[Christy]

Yeah. What? What? Clipper. What length are they doing?

[George Camel]

I think he's doing a two.

[Christy]

A two. That's pretty tight as I see. Oh, you can see it on camera.

[George Camel]

Thank you for the angles.

[Christy]

Got the white walls there. I like.

[George Camel]

Whoever was listening is no longer listening.

[Christy]

But they're fine. They're here for that. They want to know, George. Okay, Allie, I guess. Is it Ali or Ali? I'm not sure. We'll go with Ali. We'll try. I never know. I'm hooked on phonics usually.

[George Camel]

Here we go.

[Christy]

Ally?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, it's Allie.

[Christy]

Oh, great. I got it right. Boy, I was nervous there1 l could go both ways. It could.

[Ken Coleman]

It could, it could.

[Christy]

How can we help today, Ally?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, my. We can delve into the, I guess the details, but my main question is I'm in my 50s. My mother is 80ish, almost 81. My main question is, as her only child, am I responsible moving forward, trying to save for my own child retirement to take care of her financially because she has spent most of her life making bad decisions for herself.

[Christy]

No.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

What makes you think you are responsible?

[Ken Coleman]

Because I'm her. Like I said, I'm her only child. And is she putting a little bit.

[Christy]

Of this on you? A little bit of passive aggressive guilt? Take care of her. I had a feeling.

[Ken Coleman]

Little bit. She made a comment not too long ago about when she's out of money, it will quote, unquote be on me.

[Christy]

That's not even passive, that's just straight aggressive.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Camel]

Was she half joking or was she dead serious?

[Ken Coleman]

I think she was serious, kind of with a smile like, I know you'll take care of me kind of Thing. And she's so tender.

[Christy]

Allie, I'm sorry. Because let me tell you something. Here's what I don't want to skip over.

[Ken Coleman]

Over.

[Christy]

That's a really unfair and really heavy weight to. To put on somebody.

[Ken Coleman]

It is.

[Christy]

And I'm sorry.

[Ken Coleman]

Thank you.

[Christy]

And I'm not making her out to be awful.

[Ken Coleman]

No.

[Christy]

I want to honor your mom.

[Ken Coleman]

Great mom. She's a wonderful mother.

[Christy]

She's terrible with money.

[Ken Coleman]

Exactly.

[Christy]

Yeah. Not your problem.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Camel]

So you can honor her without agreeing with her, without funding their decisions indefinitely, without enabling financial misbehavior. And so I want to free you from that. That. That is not your responsibility. Morally, ethically, legally. If you want to help her and you have the ability to help, you can do so.

[Ken Coleman]

Right?

[Christy]

Here's the big question. So it's two parter. A, have you told her, mom, it's not my responsibility. These two clowns on the radio and podcast and YouTube told me. They told me it's not.

[George Camel]

And I agree with them.

[Christy]

A, have you told her that it's not your responsibility and that you're not going to. And B, if you haven't, and when you do tell her, does she have any kind of means by which to change her behavior at this late in the game to where she's not a burden for the state since she's not going to be a burden for you.

[Ken Coleman]

You. Right. I don't think I haven't sat her down and said, look, you know, you can't do this anymore because I am not going to fund you. I can't. I have two jobs.

[Christy]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, I'm trying to put away from my own.

[Christy]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Retirement.

[George Camel]

You're trying to break a cycle.

[Ken Coleman]

I am breaking this cycle.

[Christy]

Don't you think you. But hey, listen, and we're team Ally. You know this.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[Christy]

Don't you think you should talk to her soon?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I'm sure I should. The. The comment that I made to her after she told me it was going to be on me was, what do you want me to do? Get three jobs? That's kind of what I told her.

[Christy]

Well, again, that was. We're both playing this passive game.

[Ken Coleman]

Exactly. Passive. Yes.

[Christy]

So, second question. My second question. What's the answer to that?

[Ken Coleman]

She has a me. Well, she gets 20ish. 2200, 2400. Social Security. She sold her condo two years ago, moved in and for a profit, moved in with me and my adult children. And the profit, I think it was around 150. She paid off some credit cards, left with 100. And that's all gone.

[George Camel]

What do you mean it's gone?

[Ken Coleman]

She spent it on food qvc. No, she's not really a huge.

[Christy]

I know. That was terrible. That was. Yeah, that wasn't. That was such a stereotype ageism comment. I apologize to the audience. But it was funny. People laughed.

[Ken Coleman]

She likes big stuff. She's. I always call her champagne taste on a beer budget.

[Christy]

I know her. I know her well.

[Ken Coleman]

I love her, like I said.

[George Camel]

So she's living with you right now?

[Ken Coleman]

She is.

[George Camel]

Oh, that feels like a problem.

[Christy]

This is.

[Ken Coleman]

And she's got. Yeah. And then since two months after. A couple months after we. She moved in with me and sold her condo, she developed afib. So she's battling, you know, this, this heart thing. She's got, she's got heart issues and heart failure. And then that makes me feel even worse, like I'm not going to take care of it.

[Christy]

So she piled up a bunch of debt or she just spent all of her cash.

[Ken Coleman]

She, she spent her cash. She piled up another maybe 40 or 50's worth of credit card debt and now filed for bankruptcy and also hired an IRS attorney to get her out of the 17,000 IRS debt that she has as well.

[Christy]

Wow. Ay yai yai.

[George Camel]

So how much debt does she have remaining?

[Ken Coleman]

She just has her. The only thing she has left after all of her credit cards and stuff is her car, which she owes about $8,000 on.

[Christy]

Does she even drive anymore?

[Ken Coleman]

She does. She's. You would if you could see her. She doesn't act 80, look 80. She drives, she plays bridge.

[Christy]

Oh, I know. She acts like a 16 year old girl living the endless summer sounds like to me.

[Ken Coleman]

And I want her to do those things. I don't want her, you know, I want her to get out and get some fresh air and this and that. But her heart issues now have made it really difficult for her to even walk up the stairs and stuff.

[Christy]

All right, George, so what does she do here?

[George Camel]

Well, she's already living with you. You're not going to evict your mother and put her out on the street. So you signed up to have her live with you and take care of her. So your only option is to go.

[Ken Coleman]

Mom, she does pay rent.

[George Camel]

Yeah. You're going, Mom, I'm going to take control of your finances. This 2200 is going to come through me and it's going to pay for the expenses. And you, you're going to have your own little budget and it's not going to be much. There's going to be no spending in your future. It's going to be survival because this is the life that you set up. And so she's under your house, she's under your rules.

[Christy]

Yeah, but that's how it goes. In no way, shape or form do you try to help her with her debt. Her debt will die with her if I'm correct, George.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Christy]

And so don't you get sucked into that.

[George Camel]

Don't help her pay off her debt.

[Christy]

No, not at all. You're a good mom, Ally. And you keep focusing on you getting financially healthy for you and your family.

[George Camel]

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

[Christy]

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said hey, the only reason to not have life.

[Ken Coleman]

Insurance is if you hate your wife and kids.

[Christy]

And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a gut punch.

[Christy]

And. Oh, you're telling me. And for, for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

[George Camel]

Me too.

[Christy]

They don't know what to do next.

[Ken Coleman]

Me too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here and you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a.

[George Camel]

Young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

[Ken Coleman]

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly. These are the two options. And take care of your dadgum family.

[Christy]

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your.

[Ken Coleman]

Have the opportunity to just be sad.

[Christy]

Yeah, to just miss you.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family.

[George Camel]

Term life insurance Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years.

[Ken Coleman]

They're the only people I trust.

[George Camel]

Go to Xander.com or call 800-356-4282.

[Christy]

All right, let's go to Bill in Phoenix, Arizona. Bill, how can we help you today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, thanks for taking my call. My question is this. This whether I should gift or loan or not provide any money at all to help my 33 year old son and his family buy a house. They're planning to Move. I don't have problems with that. They are in an existing house, but where they move to, they're going to have to buy another house. House prices are a little bit higher. And he has asked whether I'd be willing to contribute money to either increase his down payment. That would lower his mortgage amount, so it'd be a little bit more comfortable for him to afford. He's never given me an exact amount. He's floating the idea of anywhere from 50,000 to $100,000. I can afford it, but I'll be 69 in a few months, and I'm going to retire at the end of this year, and my gainful income will end, my gainful employment ends. So this really comes down to whether it's a personal question, whether I should contribute any money at all. I don't view this as an emergency situation for him on it, but it would certainly make the transition for him much easier. Okay.

[Christy]

Has he been. Has he been responsible adult with money?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yes, he's been responsible.

[Christy]

Has he ever asked for money before from you?

[Ken Coleman]

No. No.

[Christy]

Okay. And if. If you had not called us and you weren't talking to us about it, you couldn't talk to anybody about it, what is your gut telling you to do?

[Ken Coleman]

I want to help him out in some respects.

[Christy]

I know that. I'm saying.

[Ken Coleman]

But not. Not at the level that he wants. And my gut feeling is I'm not loaning, becoming a lender to him.

[Christy]

Great.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't. I think lending money to family members creates a whole set of problems.

[Christy]

You're right. We would agree. So let me put you on the spot just for fun.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Christy]

Okay. Because there's no pressure here, but I love your answer. But my next question is if, again, you couldn't talk to us or anybody else, and you. Because we now know you said, I'm leaning towards giving him some money. What do you feel comfortable in your spirit, in your gut giving him money? How much?

[Ken Coleman]

How much? Yeah. Well, you know, the thing is.

[Christy]

I.

[Ken Coleman]

Would feel comfortable with 25. I would probably go maybe as high as 40. 45.

[Christy]

Okay, so why. Tell me why. Tell me why you're comfortable with 25 but you're willing to go as high as 45.

[Ken Coleman]

Probably because I love him.

[Christy]

Right. But the reason is the 25. You feel like psychologically you can absorb that gift you give that clearly.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Christy]

I'm just digging around. I want George to jump in, but I. I just wanted to ask those questions because you're. I appreciate you calling us and saying what do you guys think. But George, I, I think this is a personal decision and Bill's a very, very wise person. Person and seems like the son is very responsible. He's never asked for money before. I'll add this, and then I want to get George's take. George, I. Part of me thinks that the son could wait. There's always a better option. And I know that as a son, I would only go to ask my dad for money in this situation if it was the last resort. That's me personally. That's not casting, you know, aspersions on Bill's son here, but that's just where I fall. What are you hearing? What do you need to know? What do you think?

[George Camel]

I think Bill is asking all the right questions. He's given the right answers. The questions I have are more on the sun side as what is causing the urgency for a house right now that they can't afford.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, you know what? There really isn't any urgency. I mean, he's, he's accepted a new job, increase in pay, but they want to move out of the Phoenix area. They're going to be moving up to a cooler climate, and I'm all for that. I've never held any my kids back. If that's where they want to go, so be it. It's just that where he's moving to, that housing market is a little tighter and a little bit more expensive. He will have a house to sell in Phoenix and he has some equity. It's just that for his family and their growing sizes, they want. They need a bigger house and, but none of the, These are all choices that he's making, and they're not really what I call an emergency. I've always been there for my, for my family for emergency situations.

[George Camel]

Well, is he, does he have any consumer debt right now?

[Ken Coleman]

You know, I don't know that he's. But he's. They're very fiscally. He and his wife are fiscally responsible. Okay.

[George Camel]

They have an emergency fund of their own. So this is not you bailing him out.

[Christy]

So quick, follow up. My understanding that if he has a house in Phoenix, is he trying to hold onto the house in Phoenix and then make the move or. Because if he's got, if he's got equity in his current house in Phoenix, is that a. Not enough equity to help him make a really nice down payment as they move up north?

[Ken Coleman]

That. That's correct. Is. Is they. He. He anticipates that he would probably have about 150,000 profit. You know, after paying off his mortgage and he'd have 150,000 profit and he's got another 25,000 in savings. So he can put $175,000 down but.

[Christy]

He wants another 50 to 100.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. Because he has an idea where he wants his mortgage to be that that would allow him to feel comfortable with that.

[Christy]

It doesn't sound like you're 25. No, it's nine. No, no, no, I know you're 69. I'm saying you're 25,000 that you feel comfortable with.

[George Camel]

Like that's not a make or break.

[Christy]

That's not going to make that big of a difference. The 45, 50 to 100.

[George Camel]

Sure. That's going to move the needle for that 45.

[Christy]

I guess what I'm getting at is your max dollar that you stretch give, which is 45,000 even. That's not going to make that big of a thing. And so I think the sun needs to wait or it needs to be paid patient there or he needs to find another way is what I'm hearing.

[George Camel]

That's been my gut this whole time. This is less about you and how much you're going to give and more about is this the wisest situation for him? Again, he's a grown man. He can do what he wants. And to that I would say give however much you feel comfortable giving and it's up to him what he does. And I see this as an early inheritance.

[Christy]

Yes. Yeah, go ahead.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And that is, you know, one thing that, that my wife and I were thinking about this morning is, is, is and I don't know what the dollar amount would thought about while rather than increase giving him money to increase his down payment is to see if we can contribute money that he can buy down an interest rate.

[George Camel]

Yeah. It's generally not worth it to buy down the points. You're better off just giving them that money for the down payment at that point. I know interest rates are high and it feels like a win. You can do, you know, break even analysis on all that and figure it out. But we found an arc experience. It just the numbers rarely work out.

[Ken Coleman]

I see.

[George Camel]

So I would, I would give what you're comfortable giving and I would also caution him to not over buy and you know, get starry eyed with the kind of house that they're looking for. They might need to wait. They might need to look at a different neighborhood. They might need to scale back on the type of home they were looking at.

[Christy]

And Bill, I'll throw this out here when Stacy and I moved our three kids here 11 years ago. We rented for two, two years. Just because we wanted to make sure that. Because I felt like we were going to be at Ramsey Solutions for a long time and that's proven to be true. And I wanted to make sure that we were planting in the right place within the Williamson county area. And so we rented for two years. It's not a bad play.

[George Camel]

He's getting a pay raise and he rents for a year or two and they continue saving up. The downfall payment and maybe you gift on top of that. I feel much better about the situation. Can I ask what your net worth is or what's in the nest egg?

[Ken Coleman]

My net worth is just below 2.3 million.

[George Camel]

Okay. And how much do you have in that you could, you know, make liquid?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I don't want to make liquid. I mean, I, I would give him the money out of, out of our high Yield savings account. I don't want to be cashing in.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's a taxable event. How much do you have in cash?

[Ken Coleman]

About 150.

[George Camel]

Okay, so this feels more emotional than it is financial. He could give more if he wanted to, but I think, But I, I, I don't like where your head's at.

[Christy]

Okay, good. Because I was going to say I, I like how you answered. You're pretty clear on that 25 to 45 range being. And I'd stick to that.

[George Camel]

Any more than that, he's going to get resentful and I wouldn't do it.

[Christy]

Yeah. This show is sponsored by Better Help. All right? We all know this. The world is going bananas and we're under huge pressure to perform and look like we're keeping it all together. Together.

[Ken Coleman]

Check this out.

[Christy]

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[Ken Coleman]

Money.

[Christy]

Talk it out with better help. Visit betterhelp.com deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp hp.com foreign folks, we so much appreciate all of you who are part of this fun, fun tribe and listening and watching, however and wherever you listen and watch. And we would love for you to share the show. It's how we grow, you know, the old algorithms. And we've got a great way for you to share it with some actual value. How about the fact that we have our crack production team. They're a amazing. They have put together an awesome Ramsey 101 playlist. So think about your fundamental financial class, the way we would teach it, if you will. And people say you listen to this Ramsey show. What are you talking about? Hey, let me just share this with you. And you can share the link which is at the top of the show notes, or you can Open the Ramsey101 playlist on YouTube and you can text it, DM it, send it in a group chat. It's all super easy and clickable. And this is again, all the basics. What are the baby steps? How do you pay off debt using the debt snowball? How do you build an emergency fund? How much do we need in the emergency fund? All the basics for somebody who's not tied into all this and you really want them to begin to think through and use the principles that we teach. It's the Ramsey 101 playlist again at the top of our YouTube channel. Or you can click the link in the show notes. Annabelle is up in Austin, Texas. Annabelle, how can we help today?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, I am a baby, baby, baby. Because this is the very first month.

[Christy]

I've ever actually hey, Annabelle, I'm so sorry to interrupt. You're coming through real, real fuzzy. Can you maybe move the phone a little bit closer to your mouth?

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Is that better?

[Christy]

We'll go with it. It's hard to hear you a little bit, but let's try it. Go ahead.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. I really knew at this. I'm a baby. This is the very first month I'm actually having my credit card, so.

[Christy]

All right. I'm going to put Annabelle on hold because I, I want to do her justice and I, I know that I'm having a hard time understanding her. I know our audience is as well. Let's go to Laura in Philadelphia. Laura, how can you we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey. I'm a single mom and I have three kids. My oldest is going into high school. I work in marketing and I've gotten laid off twice in the last five years. Yeah, I have a job now.

[Christy]

Okay, great.

[Ken Coleman]

But I have a fully funded emergency fund and contribute 6% for my 401k. My question is, because my field is so volatile, should I switch baby steps so that I pay off my house first rather than going to the 15% for retirement and working on college?

[George Camel]

Wow, so you're investing 6% now. Is that all you can invest? Do you have any money beyond that?

[Ken Coleman]

No.

[George Camel]

Okay, so that to me is the bigger issue because you have no debt other than your mortgage, correct?

[Ken Coleman]

Right, yes.

[George Camel]

What's your mortgage payment every month?

[Ken Coleman]

2,000.

[George Camel]

And what is your take home pay every month?

[Ken Coleman]

About 9,000.

[George Camel]

Okay. You have a great income. Now let's talk about this volatility and I want Ken to speak into this. Marketing is not a volatile industry. So what is the industry that you're saying is volatile?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I work for private companies. There's a lot of churn. You know, I don't know. I, it's just, there's always been a lot of churn and I've seen like.

[George Camel]

A lot of like, are these like startup companies? What do you, what's behind this?

[Ken Coleman]

I, I kind of work in the digital space for like digital marketing.

[Christy]

Is that, are you working for agencies?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I've worked in house at like a larger corporation and then I moved to a startup and I got laid off at both.

[Christy]

Okay, well, but here's the deal. Yeah, I think I know what's going on. Going on. And I love George's question. I, I think you're naturally a little bit gun shy and you're a little bit scared because you've been burned.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Christy]

One, listen, first of all, layoffs happen and that happens many times at really big companies because you know how they do, they staff up when the stock is good or profits are great and then they, they, they let people go when the stock drops. And that sounds by the way you're reacting, what happened to you on one of those situations. The other situation is a startup. So to me that's, that's the risk. It's always a risk when you go to work for a startup. It's the reason they call them startups. So George, I'm going to give it back to you because I think what's going on here is just a natural fear of getting burned again. Yeah.

[George Camel]

And to simply answer Your question? No, you shouldn't focus on paying off your house and skip investing. And, and it sounds like you couldn't even do that if you wanted to because right now you're not investing 15%. And I'm confused because you have an amazing income. So what are your monthly expenses?

[Ken Coleman]

I've been, I've been stockpiling my emergency fund because I am terrified. So I have a. How much do you have, like one year? I have 100,000.

[George Camel]

What do you have a year of emergency fund for? Are you scared of another layoff to where you're not going to get a job for six to eight months?

[Christy]

Yes. All caps.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. And it's so. I am very high, like in my field. And so the jobs are so limited. And also because I'm a single mom, I want a remote job, and those are so limited. So I'm trying to find, like, it just, it takes, it's a very long process to get a job.

[George Camel]

But your job is stable now? There's no fear of layoffs?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes. No.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

No. But I, but I felt that before.

[George Camel]

Well, the longer you stay in this job, the more that fear will start to disappear.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So that's the good news. But I would. You're. You're good on the emergency fund. Let's move on and crank up that investing to 15%. And then if you want to throw some money into a 529 plan for each of the kids. I would do that.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Set a goal. Maybe it's, you know, 200 bucks a month for each kid. You can use investment calculators. You can work with a SmartVestor Pro. You can get in touch with one through our website and go, okay, how much will I need per kid based on their age, wages, or can I start to cash flow some of this? Can I talk to the kids about a college plan? Do they want to go, where do they want to go? What degrees do they want to pursue? I would start having that conversation with your high schooler now to develop a plan. And then beyond that, if you have money outside of that, with this take home pay, start chunking some toward the mortgage, extra toward the principal.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Maybe you decide to do, hey, I'm going to do a thousand bucks per month. I'm going to ratchet it up every year. If I get a raise, I'm going to ratchet it it up. And then as the kids exit their college phase, you're going to have even more to throw at the mortgage because you won't be cash flowing.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Christy]

And Just a little bit more security if we could. Laura, I think you're probably way better off than you realize. I got a hunch. How much is your house? How much could you sell your house for? And, and how much do you owe on it?

[Ken Coleman]

I owe 270 and I probably could sell it for 550.

[Christy]

Perfect. I just wanted George to hear that information as well because I, I just feel like you're way better off than you realize. If for some reason you were to be laid off again, you got options with that house. You're not, you're not stuck. You know what I mean? And for that reason, you should be paying into your retirement the full 15% like George told you. And, and take care of the kids. 529. You're going to be okay. It's not like you're underwater with that house. Am I right, George?

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Christy]

You make you feel anything?

[George Camel]

Well, your mortgage payment compared to your income is astounding. I'm just, I'm amazed you've done such a good job with this super high income. Keeping your expenses very reasonable, staying away from debt. You have an overly funded emergency fund. And do you also have any, is there any child support or alternative that's tied to any of this?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, we get, we just split all the kids expenses. 50. 50.

[George Camel]

Okay, great. So that does lower your expenses. So that, that's not part of your take home pay, it's just the expenses are shown.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay, great. So you should have plenty of margin to move through the baby steps very quickly. I think you're going to end up paying this mortgage off faster than you think. I would set a goal that excites you but is also realistic to where you go.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

I know that. Worst case, seven years from now, this mortgage is paid off.

[Christy]

What is a six month emergency fund? What's the amount if you do six months?

[Ken Coleman]

I think it'd be 65 times six is like my minimum expenses. Okay.

[George Camel]

This would be a fun challenge to Ken's point. What if you took six months and you threw the rest toward the mortgage?

[Christy]

That's where I'm going.

[George Camel]

Or you. Or you really front load those college funds. Cuz compound growth. If you would throw 50 grand into a bunch of 529 plans and let them ride for years, you're going to be okay for college.

[Ken Coleman]

That sounds good. Yeah. I'm in a new role and I just want to make sure we're, we're sailing, you're doing great. A single parent. I'm just, you know, I'm by myself there. When I lose a job, there's no. No other.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that security gland is flaring up extra hard.

[Christy]

We totally understand. Great questions. Bravo, Mama Bear.

[George Camel]

Amazing.

[Christy]

You're crushing it.

[George Camel]

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[Christy]

See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details.

[George Camel]

Details.

[Christy]

All right, folks, graduation has come and gone, I believe, just about everywhere now. Right? We're late enough of the year. Everybody's kind of walked through that and, and we got a lot of students, whether on the high school level or the college level that are moving on to the next phase of life. And it's really intimidating. Whether it's picking out the major that you think is gonna get you the professional direction that you want to go, or it's all right, I've picked all that. Now I'm out of college and I gotta find a job. And I'm really proud of the work that our team has done on the Get Clear career assessment. Find the work you're wired to do. Student Edition. It's now out. And this, this language, it's a lot simpler. The assessment itself, a little bit different output than the adult version. That's been a big hit and it's now available. It's 34.99. This is a great gift for that student in your life trying to figure out what am I wired to do. It's not a difficult question to answer if you have the methodology of the Get Clear career assessment. So you can get it [e-mail] store ramseysolutions.com store it's the Get Clearcareerasse assessment. Find the work you're wired to do. Student Edition. And I know that my kids would appreciate if you bought it. They all need new shoes.

[George Camel]

They really do.

[Christy]

There you go.

[George Camel]

Holes in them and everything.

[Christy]

I'm not above groveling.

[George Camel]

No, it's great. I wish I had this when I was, you know, exiting high school.

[Christy]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Can't imagine how many years I would.

[Christy]

Have shaved years off of your life and get you right where you are now.

[George Camel]

That would have Been amazing.

[Christy]

We could have skipped all the social media, all the marketing, and even the countless hours of skateboarding as you tried to find yourself.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Never did.

[Christy]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

All I found was skinny jeans.

[Christy]

Yeah, well, and the bomber jackets.

[George Camel]

That's true.

[Christy]

Don't forget, Cindy's up in Houston, Texas. Cindy, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey there. So I'm calling. I am just starting to budget for the first time in my life, but I was diagnosed with a medical problem that could potentially put me out of work for an extended period of time. So my question is, would you recommend that I go ahead and continue paying off all my medical debt or would it be wiser in my situation to get my three to six months expense emergency fund first and then start putting money toward my medical debt?

[George Camel]

How much medical debt do you have?

[Ken Coleman]

Best I can figure around 100,000. Texas doesn't report it to the credit bureau, so.

[Christy]

Whoa.

[Ken Coleman]

Kind of. Yeah.

[Christy]

Bless your heart.

[George Camel]

What was the situation that got you into 100,000 of medical debt?

[Ken Coleman]

I had two Widowmaker heart attacks within six days of each other and was diagnosed with heart failure at the age of 44.

[Christy]

Cindy, you're a miracle.

[George Camel]

I'm glad you're still with us.

[Ken Coleman]

Me too.

[George Camel]

Are you working full time right now?

[Ken Coleman]

I have a full time job, but I have had to cut my hours back to part time right now.

[George Camel]

What are you making?

[Ken Coleman]

So, yeah, bring in about 275 a week after taxes and insurance.

[George Camel]

Yeah. So what happened with health insurance that you were on the hook for 100 grand?

[Ken Coleman]

Because I didn't have health insurance when all of this initially happened.

[Christy]

Oh my gosh.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Christy]

And so you've had to cut back. This current cutback is because of this new physical situation. Situation.

[Ken Coleman]

That's correct.

[Christy]

And is that gonna be ongoing? Is it chronic to where this is all you can work?

[Ken Coleman]

It's chronic. This is pretty much all I can work. But there's a very good possibility that this may have to get scaled back some off and on indefinitely.

[George Camel]

I mean, you're, you're on the poverty line. So there's no way you're gonna pay back this, these medical bills at the, this rate?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I, my husband does work full time.

[George Camel]

Okay. What does he make?

[Ken Coleman]

He brings home about 800 a week.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

I mean, we're, we're probably still close to the poverty line together, but you're not much.

[George Camel]

You're making 1100, he's making 3200. So that puts it at 4300 take home.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Which puts you guys in at about 50k?

[Christy]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

For the year.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[George Camel]

So that's, I mean, you can live off of that, but you have a hundred thousand dollars in medical debt alone. Are there other debts that are floating around out there in either you or your husband's names?

[Ken Coleman]

The only other debt that we have is about $5,000. 3500 of that is personal loans to my father and his father. The rest of it is outstanding credit card. Both of our vehicles are paid for, so the mortgage is the only open loan that we have.

[George Camel]

Okay, have you communicated with the hospital that's holding these bills and explained that you didn't have insurance that you want to do self pay and see if they'll bring down the total bill? Have you tried to negotiate that?

[Ken Coleman]

I have submitted a request. I have not heard back yet because like I said, I've not never done a budget in my life. Never, never been taught how. So the every dollar budget has.

[George Camel]

Is your husband on board with this? Is he going, hey, we got. Okay, so you guys are both ready for some life change?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, definitely.

[George Camel]

Okay. I wouldn't jump to just building the emergency fund. What you can do. You have good health insurance now that's covering you?

[Ken Coleman]

I do for the time being. You know, if something happens with my job, then I'm out. And I've been told I'll never get private health insurance.

[George Camel]

And he doesn't have insurance through his employer.

[Ken Coleman]

He does. It's ridiculously expensive and nobody at his company really wants me on their insurance. It's a small company and their rates are based off of.

[George Camel]

It'll drive their, their premiums up for everyone.

[Ken Coleman]

Exactly.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Because it's a group plan. Okay, well, what you can do is create a sinking fund in your budget. And so what that looks like is you would have a line item that says medical and you could put $400 every month into that line item and put that in savings. And that way at the end of the year you have $5,000 and so you kind of have an ongoing little medical fund to cover your ongoing care that's needed. But what I don't want you to do is just ignore the debts and just stack up my money for who knows what. You have good insurance now. The damage is done. We'll deal with that. Let's get an itemized bill from the hospital. Let's work with their finance department to say, listen, we're, we're not doing well financially. Do you have any, you know, hardship programs that could lower this bill for me or forgive this bill and fight that and See what you can do to get rid of that medical debt. And if you do that, you've cleaned up the mess. And now let's cut the credit cards up. Let's not use those anymore. Let's stick to the budget. Then we can begin building the emergency fund.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Have you made payments on the medical debt?

[Ken Coleman]

I have not at this point, no. To be honest with you, I. Until I started looking at the budget, I didn't think we really had the money to even pay all of our bills, but we do.

[George Camel]

Yeah, you got to cover your bills first, so don't give them a dime until you've covered food, utilities, housing, transportation and insurance costs.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

You guys come first is my.

[Ken Coleman]

My biggest fear was, you know, something happens and I end up not being able to work at all whatsoever. You know, I know I can apply for disability, but in the interim, I don't get paid. And that's what terrifies me.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's a scary place to be. I'm sorry you had to learn that lesson the hardest way possible, with two widowmakers within six days of each other. I can't imagine.

[Christy]

I. I don't pull out the pulpit very much, but I'm going to pull it out here for a second. I. It is wrong on every level. I. I'm trying to contain my sheer anger on behalf of Cindy and the Cindy's of this world. The cost of healthcare in this company has absolutely gone bananas. It's wrong. It is out of control, and we have no leadership in this country. And I'm talking everybody. So I'm gonna just piss off every everybody because I don't care what party you subscribe to. I don't care who you think is the political savior. There is a lack of leadership everywhere in D.C. there's a lack of leadership in the governor's mansions in this country when we can't see how this kind of stuff is breaking. Real Americans and insurance companies ought to be ashamed of themselves. Politicians ought to be ashamed of themselves. The healthcare industry ought to be ashamed of to themselves. This is ridiculous. And I'm all for free market, so. I'm still a free market guy. You know that, George. Yeah, but this is wrong.

[George Camel]

I mean, we know medical bills are one of the leading causes of bankruptcy.

[Christy]

Yeah, it's ridiculous. These insurance companies are making plenty of money and quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of it. We wonder why there's so much hate and so much outrage towards insurance companies and politicians because of this stuff right here.

[George Camel]

You got lobbyists lining companies, Congress's pockets from the healthcare industry. It's not okay. Wishing you the best, Cindy. Hope we can get this cleared up. Hey, George Camel here. So you're thinking about buying or selling your home? It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about. And all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Overwhelming. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love? So if you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals, go to ramseysolutions.com realestate that's ramseysolutions.com real estate.

[Christy]

This is the Ramsey show, where America hangs out to talk about their money, their profession and their relationships. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-255-225 is the phone number. Triple 882-55-2225. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman. Thrilled to be with him as well. Always fun, he's always a quip away from making me laugh pretty hard.

[George Camel]

That's the goal. That's all I can bring to the table.

[Christy]

Fresh haircut so it looks like the first day of school for George.

[George Camel]

I got my backpack.

[Christy]

That's your lunchbox?

[George Camel]

Yep. Mom packed it.

[Christy]

Good. All right, you get the oranges.

[George Camel]

No Dunkaroos though. That's a win.

[Christy]

Maybe I'm Dunkaroos for the win. I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'll learn more about it.

[George Camel]

Gosh, you're older than I thought. Your age is showing, Ken.

[Christy]

I know. Never heard of a Dunkaroo before in my life. Mary is up in Charlotte, North Carolina. Mary, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi. I. I have a bit of a conundrum. I have taken over handling our finances from my husband. Just say he got into the sovereign citizen thing about 7 years ago. I asked him not to make any decisions, but he did and didn't tell me.

[Christy]

Tell me what? Tell us about sovereign citizen thing to.

[George Camel]

The best of your knowledge. What is it?

[Ken Coleman]

The best of my knowledge is it's a group of people who don't believe that our government is actually a government. That when Congress let out in the early 1900s that the same people didn't come back in and they passed laws around our taxes and everything else and that it's unconstitutional. And that when we were born, our Social Security number is used as collateral by the government. And so we have billions and billions and billions of dollars in an account somewhere, and our signature can pay off debt. Just our signature. We don't have to pay back loans. We don't have to pay our mortgage. We don't have pay anything.

[George Camel]

Cool.

[Christy]

That's a fantastic idea. And you seem to know a lot about this. Like you've just heard your hubs wane on and on and on about this. It sounds like.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, not just that, but in our arguments of me talking about being good stewards and having good character, and when we say we're going to pay something back and we sign it that. Because we said it and we signed it that we need to do it.

[Christy]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

So this, he. Yeah.

[Christy]

So this has put you guys in a spot, I'm guessing extreme spot. What. Tell us what's. What's. What hole are you in?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, like I said, that's what he felt about the government. So he stopped paying our taxes.

[Christy]

Right.

[Ken Coleman]

He stopped paying our mortgage and our car loans, and we had a. A home loan that we got years ago, and I stopped paying all of it. So when I took over, I took over last year and a couple of months in, one of the elders of my church gave me a number for a company to help me work on the back taxes. And so now I have that extra bill. And I'll just give you some numbers. Taxes are over half a million, including all the fees. Mortgage. They tried to close on the mortgage. They tried to foreclose twice. The sheriff showed up and like I said, I didn't know about any of this. I found out when the sheriff came and said, here's your foreclosure papers. You need to be in court next week. And then I told my husband he needed to pay it. So he got us caught up. And then they repossessed my car. And so I told him he needed to pay it and I got my car back. And then he didn't pay for another seven months and they came out with foreclosure papers again. And I told him, I said, hold on one second.

[Christy]

Yeah, this is interesting. Interesting to me. So he's. Forget the conspiracy stuff that he's all in and all this kind of stuff, but he's holding the money, he's not spending it. It sounds like.

[George Camel]

He.

[Ken Coleman]

He did the first time, the second time. So he works for himself doing what we. Only he's a contractor building home, and he. No, it's commercial work, and it's very specialized, and he makes really good money.

[Christy]

Okay. So my point is. Is like, he. He's not spending this money. He just doesn't want to give it to the government or to the mortgage company or anything else. But it sounds like every time they come threatening, he goes out in the backyard, digs up a coffee can and provides the money. Is that what I'm hearing?

[Ken Coleman]

Not really.

[Christy]

Well, you just said he. He paid the car. He paid the.

[Ken Coleman]

The first time. The first time he did that with the mortgage. The second time with the mortgage, we lucked out that he got paid a little extra that month. And so that went to pay that. That back mortgage. And then. And then with the car, it. I don't know what he did. I think he talked them into putting everything towards the end of the loan to get us caught up.

[George Camel]

Gosh. So there's a giant balloon payment at the end.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, but I.

[Christy]

So is he now getting out of the. Is he out of the finances and he's not doing any of this nonsense and he's now letting you pay things on time?

[Ken Coleman]

He's agreed to let me do it. He doesn't agree with me.

[Christy]

I don't care about that part.

[George Camel]

Have you told him that you prefer to not be homeless? That it's your American right, I want to have shelter? Okay. What does he think about that? This guy doesn't seem like he cares about providing for you. Seems like he's more into his little conspiracy group.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, well, you know, we said the same thing about, you know, he says he doesn't care about money. And I said to him, so why don't you just give it to the people you said you'd give it to? You know, why are you keeping it that. But he's not really keeping it either. He does like to spend, and we have no savings.

[George Camel]

Do you guys have one joint account, or does he have a separate account that he spends from.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the state came after him and took money out of the account. About 25 grand, which was every penny that we had. So he changed banks. They did it again. So he changed banks again. So what I did when I hired that company. Company. Is he didn't like keeping receipts. So I found all of the banks that we had for those years, and I've been systematically going through the bank statements to itemize the Senate's company so we can at least have some kind of deductions on that. And I still have three years left to do of all of that. And I have no Idea, you know.

[George Camel]

Have you pulled a credit report for both of you?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. What is, what's the total damage?

[Ken Coleman]

Total that we owe?

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

I don't know the total yet. I know we still owe about 170 on our home. Our home is valued now around between 5 and 600. I'm not exactly sure because I haven't had it done. We've been in our home for 20 years. Okay.

[George Camel]

And you owe 500,000 to the Irish IRS. And what about these cars?

[Ken Coleman]

There's about 50,000 on the cars. There's about 20,000 on a home loan, about 65,000 in student debt.

[George Camel]

Credit cards?

[Ken Coleman]

We had no credit cards until a couple weeks ago. My dad told me that he pays his house bills with the credit card and he just goes and pays off the bill right then so that he can earn cash back. And so I thought that might be a good idea for me. One way.

[Christy]

Idea. Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Is anyone in your life financially responsible?

[Ken Coleman]

My dad. Is he. He has.

[George Camel]

No, he's not. If you pay the mortgage with a credit card, you're incurring an extra fee which negates any cash back you could ever want, so.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Mary, I don't know that we can help you in a two minute call. This is a nightmare and I'm scared you're going to go down with this guy and he. You're both going to be in prison if you keep this up.

[Christy]

Yeah, this is a. This is a marriage situation where you've got to put a stop to this with him. He's putting you in such a reckless situation.

[George Camel]

At this point, you need to protect yourself. I would separate accounts. Are you working full time?

[Ken Coleman]

I am not. I'm not able to.

[George Camel]

Are you on disability?

[Ken Coleman]

No, I. I was a stay at home mom for 25 years. I was working at my church last year.

[Christy]

Okay, so. Mary, hang on all of this.

[Ken Coleman]

I lost my.

[Christy]

Mary, hang on. We got to do a quick commercial break. We'll come back and try to help you.

[George Camel]

You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to.

[Ken Coleman]

Return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable G, advanced investing strategies and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand. Head to ramseysolutions.com smartvestor to get connected. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client.

[George Camel]

Promoter of participating pros. Learn [e-mail] SmartVestor.

[Christy]

All right, so we've been talking to Mary, and her husband has long been a member of a group called Sovereign Citizens. And these fine folks don't believe that anybody should pay taxes. By the way, I would like to point out nobody, I mean, nobody, hates taxes more than me. Okay? But it's the law. Even Jesus took the subject on in the Bible.

[George Camel]

That's true.

[Christy]

Give unto Caesar. What is Caesar? So bless her heart, Mary is really under it.

[George Camel]

Let's kind of go through the numbers. Let's remind people.

[Christy]

Let's. Let's go through the numbers, set it up where Mary's at.

[George Camel]

All right, Mary? You bet. You back with, with us?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, I'm here.

[George Camel]

Okay, so I heard you have half a million dollars in back taxes to the IRS. You have $50,000 in car loans, $20,000 in a home equity loan, $65,000 in student loans, and then you got 170 left on the mortgage, and the house is worth about 5 or 600.

[Ken Coleman]

And we also, My, my husband was in the hospital last year for an extended period of time, so we also have about 60, $70,000 in medical debt.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'm supposed to be having surgery coming up, so I'm about to cancel it.

[Christy]

Oh, boy.

[George Camel]

Do you guys have insurance? Do you know what it's going to cost you?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, he didn't want to buy insurance either, so I just.

[George Camel]

You guys don't have health insurance?

[Ken Coleman]

We didn't, but we do now. But it won't pay for anything until next year on the date that I signed.

[George Camel]

Oh, my goodness. What's the surgery for?

[Ken Coleman]

A total knee replacement.

[Christy]

Oh, my gosh.

[George Camel]

And you told us that you can't work.

[Ken Coleman]

I, I, I've been trying to work. I, I was working. I'm, I'm a worship leader. And so I was at my church, and I was struggling, and I went to my pastor with this, and he talked with the elders and deacons, and I did, too. And I ended up losing my position out of safety for the church.

[George Camel]

What does that mean? Safety? Was the church in harm's way?

[Ken Coleman]

Because, well, if I got arrested because of all of this, so even they.

[George Camel]

See the writing on the wall.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yes. And they were talking with him, too. I told him he, I required him to start talking with an elder or find someone who's a mentor who knows the word, that he could talk to about these things that he believes and he did finally agree to go to counseling with. With me, and. But he's. He's not talking to anybody. He doesn't agree with them. He. He thinks they all held him accountable in a meeting. He even said he doesn't believe this, but he said that he thought I was being unfaithful because I didn't agree with him and that he had the right to divorce me according to what Paul said.

[Christy]

What.

[George Camel]

What is keeping you guys together at this point?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I know he loves me, and I know that he's working at it. It. And I do love him. We've been together for 30 years and.

[George Camel]

Okay. But none of that actually shows that he loves you.

[Christy]

Yeah. I don't see a guy who loves.

[George Camel]

You if they came and repoed my wife's car, put me on the street, and made me homeless because my. My wife said I don't want to pay bills. I don't know how. That's love. Love requires action.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Christy]

Mary, I didn't plan to.

[Ken Coleman]

I could. I could take care of the finances. So he. He's. He said, what does he make? And you can take care of it.

[Christy]

Well, but if he's spending it. Mary, you already said that he's been spending it, so you need to.

[George Camel]

He needs to lose access to any money in this household.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, at this point, he's not spending because I'm controlling the finances, and he's agreed to ask me before he buys anything. But he wouldn't be able to even if he wanted to because of the way our debt is now.

[George Camel]

Right?

[Christy]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

You guys can't make minimum payments.

[Ken Coleman]

$30,000 in contract labor. That's another day he should not be.

[George Camel]

Running his own business.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Camel]

What does he make?

[Ken Coleman]

Close to 300 a year.

[George Camel]

Okay, so there's some good news in all of this mess. He's got a great shovel that if you take control of, we can clean this mess up. And if I were you guys, can I just throw out a plan and see how you like it?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

The number one debt to focus on right now is that IRS debt. Pay these back.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Camel]

So that's what I would focus on first, followed by all this consumer debt. I wouldn't worry about the mortgage right now. In fact, I would consider selling the house and renting to clean up this mess faster.

[Ken Coleman]

Really?

[Christy]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Because you have over $200,000 in consumer debt alone. You have $500,000 to the IRS, and then you have the $170,000 mortgage. So we're approaching a million dollars in debt.

[Christy]

Yeah. And Mary, they're not. The IRS is not going to play around. This guy has already put you. Put you guys in a very precarious situation. I think was wrong to let you go. But the church was scared out of their mind. And. And honestly, I'm scared for you. And I. One. One more conspiracy Facebook post that your husband clicks on and he goes dark on all this again and you're going down with him. And this guy's gone to counsel if he did that. You what?

[Ken Coleman]

I told him I would leave if he did that.

[Christy]

Yeah, but. But it's too late if he. If he takes you down with him and then you go, well, that's the final straw. Now's the time to leave him until he changes. He has been confronted by pastoral staff. He's been confronted by a counselor. Confronted. And sheriffs. And when he's been confronted, he comes up with some crazy idea that you're cheating on him. You're the best woman in the world. World. I think most women would have long since left this clown.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Christy]

And I know you love him, and I'm not trying to be derogatory, but I'm telling you as a stranger who you called to ask my opinion, this is beyond bananas.

[George Camel]

You're in an unsafe situation.

[Christy]

You are very unsafe. And he can say he loves you, but this is not the act of love.

[Ken Coleman]

No, I know. And that's why I called you, because I don't want to go to jail. But I didn't know he was doing that.

[Christy]

I know you didn't. And at this point, I think you can prove that you. You didn't. And I love that you have control of the finances, but I would be completely making myself independent. George. Listen, Mary, in the next few minutes, I want you to pay attention to what George says because you need to get independent of your husband right now, financially first. And I would put the ultimatum down that this dude does massive life change and proves it to you in some very specific ways before you ever even talk to this guy guy again. That's how serious I think this is. George. I want her to protect herself financially. What would you do if she was your mom, what would you do?

[George Camel]

I would get your name off of anything he's connected to and make sure that all everything is under your control and that he can cause no further damage. I would freeze all of his credit so that he can't go into debt even if he went wanted to behind your back. You can freeze his credit with all three credit bureaus. And I'm going to Gift you a session with a financial coach because the depth of your situation is far beyond what we can cover on a Ramsey show call. And I want to make sure that we can serve you well. We want to help and, and help you take the right next step. So we're going to gift that to you. It's free. It's on us to get on a financial coaching call with someone to walk you through this for what the, you know, what your specific area is. There's a lot of logistics here to, to walk through. But I do think that it's probably wise for you guys to sell this house and maybe you go live on your own and rent somewhere.

[Christy]

I agree.

[George Camel]

I don't know what that looks like, like financially for you with his income and you not having one, that's going to be difficult. But cleaning up the IRS debt is A1, then I would do the debt snowball for the rest of these debts. Focus on the smallest balances first. Knock them out and freeing up a payment along the way. And you'll knock out the mortgage by selling the house. And it'll probably leave you with about 300,000 in profits that you can use to knock out over half of this IRS debt.

[Christy]

I listen, I think I go to your, I go to your dad. I go to some family right now. You need to be around some safe people.

[George Camel]

I'd probably talk to an attorney and figure out what your rights are and if you, you know, if you're the quote, innocent spouse in the situation, will, will you be absolved of whatever crimes he's committed? I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Is that who I would talk to about getting my name off of things?

[George Camel]

Well, the name, your name off of things would be refinancing. If your name is on there, I don't know that they'll just your name. But you can contact every lender that's out there that has his name on it and see if you can get out of it and say, listen, things that you weren't a part of. If he went and took any of these debts out behind your back, I don't know. There's so much here to unpack. I'm so sorry you're going through this and right now I'm more concerned about your safety than anything else right now.

[Christy]

Yeah. Hang on the line. Mary, we're going to get you connected to a financial coach that can walk with you on this. And, and I'm so, so sorry. But you gotta fight for you right now with everything.

[George Camel]

Does having more money and less Stress sound nice, but feel impossible. Well, in my brand new book Breaking Free From Broke, I share my story of going from broke to millionaire and exactly how I did it. You'll learn about the money traps and cultural lies out there designed to keep you brainwashed and stressed out. From credit card schemes to mortgage myths to investing traps. So if you're not where you want to be financially, I can help you finally get ahead. You can get Breaking Free from broke [e-mail] store that's ramseysolutions.com store all right.

[Christy]

Time for our Ramsey Show Question of the day which is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've got defaulted private student loans, let's be real, they don't go away on their own. But our friends at Y Refi will help you explore a low fixed rate loan based on your unique circumstances. Go to yrefi.com Ramsey today that's yrefy.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states.

[George Camel]

Today's question comes from Robert and the Baby Steps Community. When buying something expensive, how do you decide whether you use money from your brokerage account or savings account? We are debt free except our house. We want stuff now but also want compound interest to work so later I can buy stuff like cars and it's like buying a biscuit. Okay, interesting question. So he's saying buying a biscuit, should I sell funds from my non retirement investment accounts in order to cover these high expense things or should I just use my savings account? My hot take is that all savings, all investing should have a goal so you should separate it out. What were you investing in that brokerage account for? Was it for this exact thing? If so, don't feel bad cashing it out and paying whatever tax is owed on that. And if you have money beyond your emergency fund saved up for these things, don't feel bad using your savings for that if you had saved for that specific purchase. So I like to actually create different savings accounts and label them properly. So let's say we're going to upgrade the car. Well, let's have a upgraded car savings account where we put money every single month, 500 bucks a month. 12 months later you got 6 grand in there, 2 years later you got 12 grand, etc. So that way you know exactly what you're saving for. So the advice here is use savings if you can. I'm with you. I want compound interest to work as long as possible. But again, if the brokerage account existed to save up for that, then go for it but investing for anything should be a long term play like five plus years. So if you're saving for a car three, four years from now, I would not invest that money. I would park it in a high yield savings account and that way you're not worried about what the market's doing. Is it up or is it down? Did I lose money? Did I make money? And that's the simplest way to live your life is have a goal for everything.

[Christy]

And by way the, the way, the best way to be able to do the advice that you just gave is a budget. And I do want to point out all this month we've got every dollar free webinar trainings. These are free kick the tires, how to use everydollar questions that you've got. It's phenomenal. Thousands of people signing up. You can sign up for free everydollar.com webinar everydollar.com webinar all right, Audra is up in Baltimore, Maryland. Audra, how are you? How can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I'm calling today because I'm really struggling to decide on whether I should kind of splurge on an upcoming wedding. It's going to be a second marriage for me or if I should not do that and maybe rebuild my emergency fund. My last marriage left me like financially, I won't say devastated, but pretty close to. And I feel like I'm really stuck emotionally. I don't want my ex to take this away from me, if that makes sense.

[Christy]

What do you mean take what away from you?

[Ken Coleman]

He's already taken so much from me.

[Christy]

I get that. But what else would he take from you?

[Ken Coleman]

The wedding. Like not being able to do that with my, my fiance now who, yeah, is the love of my life. He's, he's the type of person that just inspires you to be a better person, you know.

[George Camel]

So do you have any, do you have any debt?

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Camel]

Right now?

[Ken Coleman]

Just the house but no car. I think my fiance, he has his car.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Ken Coleman]

Probably about 25 on it.

[George Camel]

How much do you have in savings total?

[Ken Coleman]

No emergency. I have no liquid savings right now. All I have is my IRA was left untouched and there's about 100 in there.

[George Camel]

Okay, well I'm. You definitely need some emergency savings right now because you're one emergency away from going back to into debt, which might mean we need to scale back on this wedding. Do you have a date already planned? Have you already booked things, signed contracts?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, we were hoping to do it in April. I did put down a 200 deposit on the venue, but you know, nothing set in stone. It could be reversed if we needed to do that.

[Christy]

And when you said, when you said you want to spend on this wedding, what were you thinking you were going.

[Ken Coleman]

To spend probably between probably around $20,000.

[Christy]

And that's coming out of your pocket or are we splitting this with the, with the fiance?

[Ken Coleman]

It would be split. We would try to do it together. But what I'm considering doing is we make a fairly good amount of money. If we get our spending in check, I think we could afford it. Think about prioritizing that and keeping. I can get a HELOC for $140,000 and use it as an emergency.

[George Camel]

You can't afford it if it a HELOC to do it. No, Audra, that is debt. That puts you at risk and it puts your home at risk and it moves you backwards financially. Okay, please don't do the heloc.

[Christy]

So here's the deal.

[George Camel]

Whatever, however much money you have is how much we can spend on this wedding. And so if you're going to spend 10k, he's going to spend 10k. That becomes the savings goal. And so the question becomes, can we save 10k in time for this wedding to pay for all the bills? Can you?

[Ken Coleman]

I'm not sure.

[George Camel]

Well, it's.

[Christy]

What's your income?

[Ken Coleman]

So we actually, it's our spending. It's out of control.

[Christy]

No, no, no, there's no we yet. You guys aren't married. You shouldn't be talking about we. Are you guys living together? Are you splitting bills? What are we dealing with here?

[Ken Coleman]

We are living together. We just moved in together not too long ago.

[Christy]

Well then what's the rush on the wedding? I'm not trying to be Mr. Traditional, but I mean if we're living together now, we can really postpone the wedding and do this thing the way you want to do it. You've already decided to live together. But, but my work.

[Ken Coleman]

Excited. But the other thing, I'm self employed and a big benefit of this was I pay out the wazoo for my own health insurance. It's close to to. It's $700 and like $60 a month. Just my premium. And if I got on his health insurance, we would save hundreds of dollars a month.

[Christy]

Well, you got to choose, sweetheart. You want the big wedding then you want the insurance discount. You want your.

[George Camel]

The main reason to get married sooner is to jump on his insurance.

[Christy]

I mean then just go to the courthouse tonight and that not.

[Ken Coleman]

That's not the Main reason. Reason. It is a factor. The main reason we're just really excited.

[George Camel]

Like, to Ken's point, why not go to the courthouse and save up for the big party?

[Christy]

Do it later. Now you're. Yeah, you can. You can do a.

[Ken Coleman]

Courthouse wedding. We both did that with our first weddings. To give you context, I was like homeless, almost homeless when I first got married. My first marriage married in like a.

[Christy]

It doesn't matter.

[George Camel]

You told me this guy's different, didn't you?

[Ken Coleman]

I just wanted something different.

[George Camel]

The courthouse is not the factor here. You told me that this guy's different. So this marriage is going to be different, Right?

[Ken Coleman]

That's true.

[Christy]

You want everything, but you can't afford anything. That's what we're hearing. So you got to choose.

[George Camel]

And what is your. What is your monthly income again?

[Ken Coleman]

My monthly income's about $7,000.

[George Camel]

That's a great income.

[Christy]

It's great. So you can get your emergency fund up, and then if you really hustle, you guys can cash flow this way. Wedding. But you acted when George asked you, could you come up with $10,000 between now and next year?

[George Camel]

Thousand dollars a month.

[Christy]

You were like, I don't think so.

[George Camel]

You make 7,000. Could you put away, before you did anything else, put away 1,000 of the seven into a savings account. Could you auto transfer it and pretend like it never existed?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes, I could.

[George Camel]

Okay, that means by April, you would have $10,000 in that one account.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Christy]

There's your. There's your.

[George Camel]

Could you take another thousand and put it in a. Save another savings account for your money emergency fund. Could you live off of 5,000?

[Ken Coleman]

I. I could most months I saw I have my own business with. Some months are better than others, so it can be vary a little bit.

[Christy]

So then.

[George Camel]

Okay, but what are your expenses? You told me that you have a spending problem that he does too.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, yeah.

[George Camel]

So let's prioritize.

[Ken Coleman]

What's more important about $4,300 month?

[George Camel]

4,300, like my mortgage. So if life went perfectly and you followed the plan and you made seven grand, you would have an extra $2,700 you could throw toward your goals.

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. You know what that looks like? It looks like $32,000 that you could have saved up for this wedding and your emergency fund in a year.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

So that would give me some great fire to go, you know?

[Christy]

Know what?

[George Camel]

I never want to be homeless again. I don't want to be in the situation again. I'm willing to cut my spending to save up for the things that now matter to me. And that is my emergency fund to give me some peace of mind to never go into debt again. That's for this wedding. And that's what you guys are going to have to prioritize. And I don't know that we can get him on board, but I hope we can get you on board at the very least.

[Ken Coleman]

Sam.

[Christy]

Well, after the last few calls, I definitely think we need to head to the Bible.

[George Camel]

Yeah, we could. We could use a little Jesus right now. Jesus, take the wheel.

[Christy]

I'm telling you our scripture of the day. Philippians 1:27. Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. Then whether I come and see you or only hear about you in my absence, I will know that you stand firm in the one spirit striving against together as one. For the faith of the gospel. Our quote of the day. Kevin Hassett. Do you know who this is?

[George Camel]

Never heard of him either.

[Christy]

Economists have the same occupational hazard as baseball managers and football coaches. Every person on the street knows their job better than they do.

[George Camel]

Oh, wow.

[Christy]

Wow.

[George Camel]

Yeah, he's. He's an economist.

[Christy]

Kevin was angry when he said that. Actually, I'm gonna. I'm gonna do something I never, ever do. I'm going to take issue with the quote of the day.

[George Camel]

You're going to take umbrage?

[Christy]

I'm going to take umbrage. This guy's not even here to defend himself. I do believe half the quote is right. I do believe the average American probably knows more about the economy than an economist. That part I agree with. I don't think as a big time football fan, I don't think most fans have any idea about what a football coach knows. And this is the problem with fans. That's all I want to say. I think Kevin misses it. That's what's wrong with fans. They sit in the stands and they know more. And I understand they get mad at their coach, and I've been mad at my coaches before, but we don't know what we're talking about. I just want to point that out. I appreciate that for people like you, George, who don't know what sports are. And I just want to make sure you don't judge football coaches.

[George Camel]

My brain only has capacity for so much so to memorize, like stats and coaches and players and the personal lives and what's on, going, going on. It's insane.

[Christy]

You don't have to see that. Just you're. See, that's not what being a fan is.

[George Camel]

Oh, I'VE met fans.

[Christy]

I know you have, but you don't actually watch sports.

[George Camel]

Here's my hack, though. When someone talks about sports, I can fake it and they think I know everything. I just go, yeah, we got to see how. How the coaching is this season. That's it. That gets me out of so many conversations. I go, yeah, he's right. He's right. It's all about the coaching.

[Christy]

Oh, man. George Campbell, I got to take you to a sport sporting event.

[George Camel]

I'd love to go with you. No one ever takes me. They say they will.

[Christy]

You know, we'll do. We'll Collab on our YouTube channels. It'll be called Ken Takes George to a Sporting Event.

[George Camel]

I've been to a lot of Nashville.

[Christy]

Events, you know, but not with me.

[George Camel]

Soccer.

[Christy]

I know. Not into that. You need to. Oh, I love soccer, but you need to go with me so that I know you're paying attention and, yeah, you know what's going on.

[George Camel]

You'll actually coach me through the experience 100.

[Christy]

Make sure that you get the full experience. Otherwise you're just there eating popcorn and checking your.

[George Camel]

I'm just watching the big screen, seeing the sponsors, you know, watching people stuff their face with food they shouldn't be eating.

[Christy]

It's great.

[George Camel]

It's the people watching. For me is the.

[Christy]

Let's go to Josh in Colorado Springs. Josh, how can we help?

[Ken Coleman]

Hey. So I am on the fence about upgrading my current car to my dream car and giving my wife my. My current car. And I'm feeling some doubt and guilt.

[Christy]

About you have come to the right place. I think I was put the planet to help people decide these things. This very issue is a favorite issue of mine.

[George Camel]

As specific as possible.

[Christy]

But, yeah, that's. What is this dream. What is the dream car and how much will it cost?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the dream car currently is a Audi RS6 Avant.

[Christy]

Yeah. How much is that going to set you back?

[Ken Coleman]

So total out of pocket will be around 70,000, because trade in and whatnot.

[Christy]

Okay, and how do you plan to pay for it?

[Ken Coleman]

So that's where it gets a little tricky as far as.

[Christy]

Here we go. All right, give us the tricks.

[Ken Coleman]

So my wife would prefer savings to be used. I don't want to touch any of our savings or any other money we have. I would rather take a loan out and pay it off in 16, 18 months. And when I said that to her, she says, well, why don't we just save for it? The problem is I'm onto this car now because my other cars have gone out of production that I've dreamed of getting, and their prices have skyrocketed. One of them was 120,000 new. Now is selling for a quarter million new because they don't make it. And so as these cars get harder and harder to get, the price skyrockets.

[George Camel]

What are you driving now?

[Ken Coleman]

I Drive a 2016 Land Cruiser.

[George Camel]

And what's it worth?

[Ken Coleman]

I will get about 4,554.

[George Camel]

But you're saying you're going to give that to your wife?

[Ken Coleman]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay, so you wouldn't trade it in.

[Ken Coleman]

Correct.

[George Camel]

Which means you're going to pay the car.

[Ken Coleman]

Her car. Sorry. Yeah. So her car would get me 36, I think is what we got on.

[George Camel]

What is she driving?

[Ken Coleman]

She's driving a. What's it called? A Highlander.

[Christy]

Do you owe anything on that?

[Ken Coleman]

We don't anything on any other cars. Our only debts are our mortgage and then student loans. But we are on the public. Public service loan forgiveness track.

[Christy]

How familiar. How familiar are you with our show?

[Ken Coleman]

Pretty familiar. I mean, I listen to you guys.

[Christy]

Pretty often and you called us with student loan debt.

[Ken Coleman]

I know and want to know our.

[Christy]

Opinion on you financing a dream car. So I'm just curious if you missed those episodes on the loan forgiveness route.

[Ken Coleman]

That's the only reason I.

[George Camel]

How many years in are you on it?

[Ken Coleman]

We have less than two years left before forgiveness.

[George Camel]

And what's the balance of the loans?

[Ken Coleman]

Total? Right around 250,000, but we're paying about 3,000amonth.

[Christy]

You really think that they're going to forgive those loans?

[Ken Coleman]

All my colleagues have gotten theirs forgiven.

[George Camel]

Is this the PSLF or a different one?

[Ken Coleman]

Pslf.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Christy]

Is that a good chance of happening, George? I'm a little skeptical.

[George Camel]

I mean, if you follow it by the book and don't screw anything up and you, you know, did not countless.

[Christy]

Josh is counting on it. Josh is going to the bank.

[George Camel]

I mean, people have been successful with it and I'm happy for them. I just. I would have a backup plan, too. I don't know that now is the time to be purchasing the dream car with this debt hanging around your head still. How much money do you guys have in. In savings right now beyond your emergency emergency fund?

[Ken Coleman]

Beyond emergency fund. And obviously all the retirements being maxed out yearly on both ends right around 175.

[George Camel]

Okay. And what. Why such a high savings account?

[Ken Coleman]

Honestly, we, you know, we do a house renovation, we refill that account, and then we just kind of do we put in the market. Oh, market's going to Crash. Oh, let's. I don't know, just hesitation, I guess, to move it.

[Christy]

How often do you go with your wife's point of view? Out of 10. How many times out of 10?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, 10.

[Christy]

Yeah. Great, because I think you ought to do it again. You've got the cash. If you really want this car, if it's really that big of a dream, you've got the cash for it.

[George Camel]

And I would rather you feel that pain of liquidating that savings account, because that's what's really happening with this car. Spreading it out over 16 months will make you emotionally feel better, but it's going to put you guys in a bind. You're paying interest. There's a chance you're underwater on it in case you need to get rid of it. And. And doing it with a loan is only going to add resentment on your wife's side and you're going to feel guilty every time you get.

[Christy]

I mean, don't you want to take her out on a date in that thing and not get the stink eye? Or at least the size side eye?

[Ken Coleman]

Well, this would be the first purchase I would make that's been like, we live in the state.

[Christy]

That's a yes or no. That's a yes or no question. You sound like a politician on a Sunday morning show.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, that would be great.

[Christy]

I know, bro. I'm trying to help you here, man. By the way, your wife's right. George and I are with your wife.

[George Camel]

What is your household income?

[Ken Coleman]

Gross. Typically right around 900 this year. Probably closer to 750. Just because I'm.

[Christy]

Oh, good Lord. This is ridiculous. Why are we even having this conversation? When you make that kind of money, you just made everybody that's listening and watching this show in the lobby mad. That's stupid.

[George Camel]

What little empathy they had.

[Christy]

Nobody's got any empathy for you. You make crazy money. Pay cash for that. And I gotta tell you, for somebody who took out loans. Loans. And paid mine off, I don't have such a great feeling about the way you're treating your loans with the kind of income you got. I'm just going to tell you yes. Pay your freaking loans off, you make $900,000, you're gonna ask the government to forgive.

[George Camel]

This could have been. Here's the thing. This could have been gone years ago. I don't like it's been dragging on, but yeah. Get the car. Here's my. I'm old school. I think the wife should be driving. Driving the nicer car. That's just my take oh, now we're.

[Christy]

Really piling on this poor guy.

[George Camel]

He's a car guy. Do what you want.

[Christy]

Okay, really quick, put you on the spot. You don't have to answer. You make that kind of money, you should pay your student loans back. Yes or no?

[George Camel]

Yes. I should have done it seven years ago, Moved on with your life.

[Christy]

This is the Ramsay show.

[Ken Coleman]

Hey, you guys. I was shocked to learn that 88% of you out there are sharing the Ramsey show. I mean, that is so incredible. Thank you so much. And I want to tell you that we're making it even easier to share. So this June, we have pulled together the brand new Ramsey101 YouTube playlist. A quick start collection of how to get started walking the Ramsey plan. Now, this playlist is perfect for that one person in your life who needs help winning with money and just doesn't know where to start. So here's what's inside. What the baby steps are and why they actually work. How the debt snowball helps you pay off debt fast. And how to build wealth and invest for the future and so much more. So here's what you need to do. Click the link at the top of the show notes. It'll take you straight to the YouTube video playlist. Copy it, text it, send it in a group chat. Just say, hey, I thought this might help. Because one playlist shared at the right time could be the turning point. One share, one playlist, one step could change everything for that one person in your life. So click the link, share the Ramsey show, and let's help someone out there start winning with money.