It's Not Too Late To Become a Millionaire

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "It's Not Too Late To Become a Millionaire"

Release Date: July 22, 2025
Host: Dave Ramsey
Co-Host: George Camel
Description: In this empowering episode, Dave Ramsey and George Camel tackle the pressing financial concerns of their listeners, offering actionable advice on debt management, wealth building, and achieving financial freedom. Through real-life stories and expert insights, they demonstrate that it's never too late to turn your financial situation around and strive towards becoming a millionaire.

---

1. Introduction and Overview

The episode kicks off with Dave Ramsey and co-host George Camel setting the stage for an engaging discussion focused on debt reduction and wealth accumulation. They emphasize the show’s mission to help listeners build wealth, pursue fulfilling careers, and nurture remarkable relationships despite past financial missteps.

2. Featured Caller: George's Journey to Financial Freedom

Caller Profile:

• Name: George Camel
• Location: Albany, New York
• Age: 48
• Occupation: Paramedic
• Income: $140,000 household
• Debt: $50,473 excluding mortgages (first and second mortgages, truck loan, three credit cards)
• Progress: Sober for seven months, lost 40 pounds, and recently became empty nesters.

Discussion Highlights:

George shares his transformative journey towards sobriety and improved physical health, which has also shed light on his unmanaged finances. With a substantial debt load, he seeks assurance on whether it's still feasible to amass a millionaire net worth by retirement.

• Dave’s Assurance:
  “No, you can still make it and then some. You'll have even more than that.” [02:10]

• Debt Snowball Strategy:
  Dave outlines the Debt Snowball method, advising George to focus intently on eliminating his smallest debts first while maintaining minimum payments on larger ones. He emphasizes cutting unnecessary expenses to accelerate debt repayment.

  “Baby step one is you save a thousand dollars as fast as you can.” [05:35]

• Investment Potential:
  By aggressively paying off debt, George can redirect funds towards retirement investments, potentially growing his nest egg to over a million dollars by the time he retires.

  “You're going to have a whole fresh budget and then step into the bright new future, away from the dark old past.” [04:46]

3. Listener Concerns and Financial Advice

a. Navigating Student Loans and Parent Plus Loans

Caller Profile:

• Name: James
• Location: New York City
• Issue: Undisclosed Parent Plus Loans totaling approximately $17,000 due to a decade of non-payments.

Discussion Highlights:

George seeks guidance on the ethical and legal responsibilities surrounding Parent Plus Loans his parents took out to finance his education without prior disclosure.

• Dave’s Guidance:
  “If I were you, I'd be paying this loan off. And I think it is completely fair for you to not do that as well if you choose not to.” [26:00]

  He encourages George to pay off the debt swiftly to restore his credit and prevent further financial strain, emphasizing that the moral obligation can be fulfilled without entangling oneself in ongoing debt.

b. Real Estate Investments and Car Financing

Caller Profile:

• Name: Bobby
• Location: Fresno
• Issue: Considering leveraging savings to purchase additional real estate as rental properties.

Discussion Highlights:

Dave addresses concerns about over-leveraging in real estate, cautioning against spreading investments too thin and increasing financial risk. He advises focusing on one property without additional debt to ensure positive cash flow and manageable risk.

• Advice on Real Estate:
  “Debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk...I wouldn't buy more than one. And you're not even going to like this. I wouldn't even buy one right now until you have the money. I'd pay cash for it or wouldn't do it.” [60:21]

c. Overcoming Financial Abuse and Debt from Family Scams

Caller Profile:

• Name: Dominic
• Location: Phoenix
• Issue: Financial exploitation by his mother, leading to significant personal debt and a co-signed mortgage.

Discussion Highlights:

Dominic shares his painful experience of being financially exploited by his mother through scams and unauthorized loans, resulting in $12,000 in personal debt and a co-signed $400,000 mortgage.

• Dave’s Response:
  “Just clean up $12,000 worth of debt, pay off your car, pay off the loans as fast as you can. The sooner you get them paid off, the sooner...it rakes your fingernails across the chalkboard of your heart. It hurts again.” [98:05]

  He advises Dominic to sever financial ties by refusing to make further payments towards the co-signed mortgage and focusing on eliminating existing personal debts to rebuild financial stability.

4. Success Stories: Achieving Debt Freedom

a. Ryan and Chelsea from Memphis

Caller Profile:

• Names: Ryan and Chelsea
• Location: Memphis, Tennessee
• Age: 29 and 34
• Issue: Successfully paid off $164,000 in debt within 12 months on a combined household income of $300,000.

Discussion Highlights:

Ryan and Chelsea share their inspiring story of financial discipline and teamwork, having paid off their house and substantial debts rapidly by adhering to Dave’s financial principles.

• Key Strategies:
  “If you're gonna be thoroughbreds, both of you need to be thoroughbreds. If you're gonna have a teammate than an opponent.” [109:39]

  Their success is attributed to a unified financial vision, pre-decided budgeting, and minimizing lifestyle creep.

b. Additional Success Callers:

Multiple callers share their progress in paying down debts, emphasizing the effectiveness of budgeting, disciplined spending, and prioritizing debt repayment over investments until financial freedom is achieved.

5. Expert Insights and Practical Advice

a. Managing High-Interest Debt and Loans

Dave meticulously explains the importance of managing high-interest debts like credit cards and auto loans, advocating for aggressive repayment strategies to minimize interest accumulation.

• Notable Quote:
  “There is no such thing as free. Someone somewhere is paying for it.” [13:17]

b. Avoiding Financial Traps in Insurance and Financing

Discussion on the pitfalls of whole life insurance policies and deceptive financing offers, Dave warns listeners to remain vigilant against financial products that promise more than they deliver.

• Notable Quote:
  “Insurance agents are not financial advisors. They just tell people they're financial advisors, but really all they sell is life insurance products.” [34:20]

c. Building Wealth Through Smart Budgeting

Emphasizing the role of budgeting in financial success, Dave introduces tools like Financial Peace University and the EveryDollar app to help listeners gain control over their finances.

• Notable Quote:
  “A budget with your wife becomes your accountability meeting.” [07:17]

  “We’re teaching a process that is very, very intense until you are debt free, except the house.” [04:29]

6. Conclusion and Key Takeaways

The episode of "The Ramsey Show" reinforces the message that achieving financial freedom and becoming a millionaire is attainable regardless of past financial mistakes. Through disciplined budgeting, prioritizing debt repayment, and making informed financial decisions, listeners are empowered to take control of their financial destinies.

Key Takeaways:

• Debt Management is Crucial: Prioritize paying off high-interest debts using the Debt Snowball method to build momentum and achieve financial stability.

• Avoid Financial Over-Leverage: Be cautious with investments that require significant debt, such as real estate, to minimize financial risk.

• Stay Informed and Vigilant: Educate yourself about financial products and avoid falling prey to deceptive offers or scams.

• Seek Support and Accountability: Utilize tools and community resources like Financial Peace University to stay on track and achieve your financial goals.

Notable Quotes:

• “There is no such thing as free. Someone somewhere is paying for it.” – Dave Ramsey [13:17]

• “Debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk.” – Dave Ramsey [60:21]

• “You're going to have a whole fresh budget and then step into the bright new future, away from the dark old past.” – Dave Ramsey [04:46]

• “Just clean up $12,000 worth of debt, pay off your car, pay off the loans as fast as you can.” – Dave Ramsey [98:05]

---

Empower Your Financial Journey

Whether you're grappling with substantial debt, seeking to optimize your investments, or striving to become financially independent, "The Ramsey Show" offers the guidance and support you need to navigate your financial challenges and achieve lasting wealth.

For more insights and personalized financial advice, visit www.ramseysolutions.com.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Number one best selling author Ramsey podium personality George Camel is my co host today. He's also the co host of Smart money Happy hour, a big hit on the Ramsey network. You can check him out there. And we're here to help you guys. The Phone number is, call-8825-5225. Chuck is in Albany, New York. Hey, Chuck, what's up? Hey.

[George Camel]

Good afternoon. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[George Camel]

Looking for a little advice. So a lot has changed in the last seven months. Recently I found sobriety. I've been sober for seven months, lost 40 pounds.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Camel]

Started a whole new fitness thing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow.

[George Camel]

I'm 48 and you know, you start feeling your age a little bit.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[George Camel]

In the light of sobriety, you also realize that finances haven't been managed very well. And so the wife and I are empty nesters recently. Empty nesters. So we sold our house, bought a smaller house about the same price. And now I have debt that it's, you know, I'm paying attention to and I'm trying to be intentional about paying it off. We have a first and a second mortgage. I have a truck loan and three credit cards.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Minus the mortgage, everything comes to about $50,473.

[Caller]

I contribute 6% to a 401K.

[George Camel]

And that's, you know, it's building. But I'm wondering, is it too late to become a millionaire by the time I retire?

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you can still make it and then some. You'll have even more than that. What's your household income?

[George Camel]

I bring home. Household income is about 140.

[Dave Ramsey]

Excellent. What do you do for a living?

[George Camel]

I'm a paramedic.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, very good, very good. And what did you kick? Alcohol or what?

[George Camel]

Whiskey? Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, all right. Specific alcohol. Okay.

[George Camel]

Yeah, sorry.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

You know, in our days off, you know, you learn to deal with trauma and unhealthy ways like most first responders do. So just a cliche, but part of that debt was I hired a personal trainer and I just put that on the credit card, which in my opinion, yeah, I didn't have the money to do it. But it also kicked off the path of sobriety. Being healthy taught me a lot of tools on how to eat right, exercise. But also my finances kind of came to light.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how long had you been drinking?

[George Camel]

Oh, well, 48. Started when I was a teenager.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. But, you know, congratulations. I'm very, very proud of you.

[Caller]

You can do that. You can get out of some debt. We can help with that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. £40 and sober and now debt free. Your whole life is going to be changed. I'm so proud of you. You are taking control of everything. And that is a very healthy, emotional place for you to be proactive, attacking all these different things. You're very detailed, you know, exactly. You didn't say, oh, 50 or 60. You said $50,432.22. I mean, you got it nailed down. All of this tells me you're game on and we would love to help you. Okay. So let me give you some basics and then I will also give you some tools. We teach a process that is very, very intense until you are debt free, except the house. So until you clear 50 grand making 140. Okay, so 140 minus 50 is 90, right? Okay. So that means I'm going to have you be debt free in a year or less, not counting your house.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

We're going to cut your lifestyle to nothing. Beans and rice. Rice and beans.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

No eating out, no vacations. We're cleaning up the mess so that we can step into the bright new future, away from the dark old past.

[George Camel]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's what I want you to do. So do you have any money in savings that's not retirement?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much?

[George Camel]

About $800.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right, good. So we break this down into baby steps. Let me walk you through them and then I'll tell you how it works to you and George and I will give you some input. Okay? Baby step one is you save a thousand dollars as fast as you can. Okay? Now you got 800. So we got to get this month's budget. We're going to put 200 more in there. A little baby starter, not good enough, but a little bit of a place to start. Emergency fund. Okay. Then right from there, we're going to stop your 401k temporarily. Even though there's a match. I don't care. I want complete focus on sobriety, physical condition and debt freedom.

[George Camel]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Nothing else. Complete focus. And you and your wife are looking at this budget and you are squeezing it until it screams. And you put everything you can find in the budget on your smallest debt while paying minimum payments on the other. I'm suspecting that your smallest debt's a credit card. Does that sound right?

[George Camel]

That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So you list your debts, smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. Attack the little one with a vengeance. I need about 4,000 to $5,000 a month without the 401k being withheld and the proper amount withholding. Did you get a big tax refund last year?

[George Camel]

No, I pay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, good. All right, let's leave it right where it is. I want you to plow into this as hard as you can. I need about $5,000 a month going towards debt.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you do that, you're going to be out of debt in 10 months. That's cool.

[George Camel]

That would be great.

[Caller]

And can we fast forward what happens after that? Once you have that emergency fund, you're going to go from investing 6% to 0%, but then back up to 15%. And I crunch the numbers for you, that's about, that's about 1750amonth into those.

[Dave Ramsey]

Retirement accounts with no payments but a house payment.

[Caller]

And what happens from. Let's say you're 49 at that point, right? You're debt free, investing at 15% at 49 to 67, that's 1750amonth. If you never get a raise, you guys stay at 140 the rest of your life at a 10% return, you're going to be looking at a million bucks in that nest egg. That's not even including what your home is worth.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's no match. Do you get a match?

[George Camel]

Right? Yeah. 7%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you'll get it. You'll have more than that. You'll have about a million four.

[Caller]

So you'll be a millionaire in no time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Basically, I just got to break the habits of what we're doing now.

[Dave Ramsey]

Exactly. It's resetting. Just like you're eating, just like your alcohol intake, we're resetting your brain patterns. Right? And so the budget with your wife becomes your accountability meeting. Okay. And we're gonna sit down. We both have this goal because your strongest, most powerful wealth building tool is your income. And we can't give your income to a bank in the form of debt payments and get rich. So we gotta stop it. Okay? So we're gonna plug you into a thing called Financial Peace University that's gonna walk you and your wife right through this stuff. We're also gonna plug you into an upgraded version of our financial app called EveryDollar. Right. Which helps you to get on a budget and then work those steps that we were talking about.

[George Camel]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And I'm so proud of you. I want to be. We're gonna give all that to you as our gift. Okay? We want to be part of your new sobriety and part of your new wonderful, bright, clean life that you're developing. And we'll help you with the financial parts. You got the other two things on the run. I'm so proud of you. Well done. Keep it up, baby. Keep it up. That's cool.

[Caller]

I love this.

[George Camel]

Sam.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insur 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options. And they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch, give them a call at 800-356-4282. Jim's in Fort Lauderdale. Hey, Jim. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Hey, good afternoon. My question to you is, I know exactly how you feel about car payments having watched multiple episodes of your show. My wife and I are both retired. Most of our retirement savings is in. I was a government employee in the CSP. So basically the 401K.

[Dave Ramsey]

How much is in there?

[George Camel]

I'm wondering about 1.2.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you're over, you're over 59 and a half. I am. Well, yes.

[George Camel]

I'm 60. That's correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right.

[George Camel]

And my question to you is, I know exactly how you feel about car payments, but we, we are in the place where we do need to buy a new car. Multiple companies down here are offering 0% financing. Is it better for me? I was, I was planning on setting up a monthly withdrawal on a 0% financed car to pay a car payment on a 0% rather than take the lump sum out of my 401k to, yes, a 401k. But TST. To just buy the car outright because it's. It's returning more than, you know, the interest.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because you don't understand the rules of 0%. Correct. The rules of 0% are that you have to pay MSRP. And I don't know any fool that would do that for a car.

[George Camel]

Nope. I agree with you on that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's zero percent is not actually zero percent.

[George Camel]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

So just take the money out your 401k, buy a car. You're a millionaire. Dude, quit screwing around with this stuff.

[George Camel]

No, I know, but I'm cheap.

[Dave Ramsey]

I know you're cheap in your way. You're stepping over nickels or stepping over dollars. Pick up nickels. Just go buy a car, okay?

[Caller]

And if you want to be cheap, buy a used car, slightly used.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, he's a millionaire. Go get your wife a car, man. Come on.

[Caller]

Is it for your wife?

[George Camel]

Her car is 24 years old, and mine's 20.

[Caller]

Oh, goodness.

[Dave Ramsey]

Y' all are cheap. So you're millionaires. Go buy your wife a car, man.

[George Camel]

But that's how I got to be that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, but it's not going to keep you from being a millionaire. You buy two cars, you're still a millionaire.

[George Camel]

Okay?

[Dave Ramsey]

And. And you know what that million dollars is gonna be worth in seven years? $2 million.

[George Camel]

That's. That's what I'm. That's what I'm hoping for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's why. Because you didn't. Because you didn't pay cash for a car. No one ever got rich financing a car. You got rich because you lived on less than you make, and you steadily, every single month, put money in that TSP like it was a religion. And that's how you got rich, because you're the man. So, okay, now lighten up and go buy your wife a car.

[Caller]

And turn off whatever social media is offering the 0% or whatever mailers they're sending you. I don't know where it's coming from.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the new car dealer. It's a new car dealer because he can get msrp and then he takes that contract and sign and sells it back to his own Ford Motor Credit or whoever the crap is doing this stuff. It's always been a shell game. Just. Okay, let's just kind of establish something, folks. Let's think about this. Here's a. Here's a thing to think about. There is no such thing as free. Take that to your socialist college professor. There is no such thing as free. Someone somewhere is paying for it if it's free. So now we have to look for where the shell is hiding the P. Which shell is the not free under? Because we know car dealers don't work for free and we know car manufacturers don't work for free and we know banks don't lend money for free. So someone somewhere, oh, it would be you, is paying for it. It's just like, okay, here's one for you. How about the zero down at rooms there they went, right?

[Caller]

That's a different name.

[Dave Ramsey]

I like it. 90 days, same as cash. No, it's not. 84% of those contracts do not pay off during the 90 days they convert to rip off storefront finance company. 38% interest payments after 90 days, 84% of the time. And in your arrogance you think you're in the 16%. So did the other 84. There is no free, none, nada. You don't get free.

[Caller]

No such thing. And these dealerships, Dave, they've really turned into that. You get a car, but they're really a financing machine. That's what these dealerships have turned into with just a car as a transaction. And so you've got to really watch out for these deals because they'll offer it to you, you'll get in. They say, oh, you don't qualify, but hey, we can still get you in a Hyundai Sonata today. And so that you just get starry eyed and sign the paperwork because you want to get out of there.

[Dave Ramsey]

So if you get, if you ever sit down with, and I have many, many times now, even got family in the business, sit down with a Chevy dealer, with a Ford dealer, Hyundai dealer, Honda dealer, okay, Lexus dealer, here's what they're going to tell you. The margins on a new car that they make are horrible. They make almost no money on the sale of new cars. They don't. They make a lot more money if you will lease it with Ford Motor credit and they take the lease and they sell it back to Ford Motor Credit. On average they make $1,700 or so on a new car sale. On average they make 5,000 or $6,000 on the sale of the paper that you sign called a lease. When they sell it back, they don't really care about the margin on the car. They care about two things. Did you finance it and can they sell that paper for a profit? Because they'll make more on the sale of that paper than they will on the sale of the car. And two can they get you to come back to the shop because the new car shop is the second highest profit margin on the lot. They make so stinking much money per square foot in the shop profit that it is unbelievable. The only square footage on the car lot that makes more is that little office with that guy back there with the little Poindexter thing on his head, and he's called the finance manager, and that little office makes all the money.

[Caller]

Is that where they go when they say, I got to talk to the manager, and they come back an hour later.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you know what? They don't come back and say, I got you a better price. They came back and say, I got you a better payment.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Dave Ramsey]

Because rich people ask how much? Broke people ask how much down and how much a month. So you want to be rich people ask how much? Pay freaking cash. If you're a millionaire, you can buy a new car, you can afford to take the hit, go get your wife a car, buy, pay cash, and see how much trouble it is to get them to sell you a car. When you're not financing it, you have to beg them to sell you a car. They don't want to sell you a car.

[Caller]

I got it. So I bought my wife's car in cash, and the finance office called me after the fact, said, hey, you're about to make a huge mistake. You should be financing this car. I just want to be like, hey, I don't know how to explain this to you. Just Google me. I don't know. I don't have time to fight you on this, but I'm not going to finance this vehicle today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Please Google George Camel with a K and see what happens.

[Caller]

I write a book just to help people avoid people like you. You don't want to deal with me today. But they're exhausting. That's the number one thing they're trying to do, is get you into a payment and get you to finance.

[Dave Ramsey]

This is how it works, boys and girls.

[Caller]

And 0% is how they lure you into the van with the candy. That's what they're doing here. Poor Jim. Brutal metaphor at 60 getting lured into the dealership. Come on in, son. We got zero percent in the van. Come on.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

No, thank you. Stranger danger.

[Dave Ramsey]

The guy that I got on the phone last week, and he's like, yeah, I had a vanishing premium life insurance policy. Wow.

[Caller]

What does that mean?

[Dave Ramsey]

Means it was free. It vanished.

[Caller]

Where did it go?

[Dave Ramsey]

Means the agent had a top hat and a rabbit.

[Caller]

That's amazing. A financial magician.

[Dave Ramsey]

So for 10 years, he paid triple what he would have had to pay normally.

[Caller]

So that advantage.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it was a prepaid, overpaid whole life policy for 10 years. And then they did him the favor after that of not collecting any more premiums.

[Caller]

What a kind gesture.

[Dave Ramsey]

They are just there. It's vanished. If you paid it all up front after that there were no payments. It vanished.

[Caller]

Oh my goodness.

[Dave Ramsey]

Kind of like the interest rate on my home. It vanished. I don't have one because I didn't borrow money.

[Caller]

That's the way to do it right there.

[Dave Ramsey]

Let me help you with your refinance technique. Don't just pay it off.

[Caller]

If you buy a car in cash, you make it vanish on day one. That's the way to do it. You want to be a magician? Best trick in the book.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Henry Ford hated debt. That's the irony of this. J.C. penney was nicknamed James Cash Penny. He hated debt and one of the biggest credit card issuers. Isn't that the irony of.

[Caller]

My full time job is helping people make smart money decisions. But in my spare time, I'm a grill master. Okay, more of a semi amateur enthusiast, but you know what makes me get one step closer to pro level shopping at Aldi the other day I threw some simply nature organic chicken on the grill and ended up with a meal so good that even my picky toddler asked for seconds. Aldi has become my first stop for groceries because they've got it all, from the USDA choice beef to fresh organic produce. Everything you need to pull off a gourmet dinner without busting your grocery budget. So stop paying more and just shop at Aldi where you'll save with the lowest prices of any national grocery store. Find a store near you@aldi us that's a L D I savings. Based on regional analysis of Aldi versus select competitors. Prices may vary by location, product availability and the market.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feel like you can't get ahead, join one of our free Every dollar trainings. There are new trainings every week this month and they're hosted by one of our RA personalities. You did one last week, right?

[Caller]

That's right. I got another one coming up next week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, cool.

[Caller]

So jump on. They've been a lot of fun to interact with people. We have to chat. We have. We can come on and answer questions.

[Dave Ramsey]

They can jump in with a Q and a.

[Caller]

It's kind of like a little bit of Ramsey show on top of the the teaching.

[Dave Ramsey]

Except you don't have to go through a phone screen.

[Caller]

That is the scary part for me. They just let them through. But they've been wonderful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, we're going to show you how to stick to a budget. Even find up to $9,000 in margin using every dollar so you can get out of debt. Start building wealth. Go for free. @ramseysolutions.com webinar James is in New York City. Hi James. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Thank you very much. And how are you guys doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

[George Camel]

Well, I've been better, but I'm doing fine. I just have a question for you guys. So I've been out of college for many years. I've paid off about $15,000, which was the entire loan that I was aware of. And recently my parents just informed me that they had taken out a loan to assist me going to College for about $13,000. And they are now asking for.

[Dave Ramsey]

For.

[George Camel]

Me to be responsible of it.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it's a parent plus loan. Correct in their name. Okay. When they took it out, was there any discussion back in the day when you were in college?

[George Camel]

No, I literally, I didn't know it existed. You know, I thought it's because they were very honest with me, you know, about college. You know, I got FAFSA assistance, I got a lot of grants. Only went to a four year school for about two years. I went to a county college the first two years. So I really thought that that was sort of it. I didn't really realize that they had taken out.

[Dave Ramsey]

So they took out a loan and didn't tell you anything about it at all and yet they want you to be responsible for it?

[George Camel]

Yeah, you know, they're asking for responsibility or at least help or assistance with it. Yeah.

[Caller]

How many years ago was this?

[George Camel]

I graduated about nine years ago.

[Caller]

So for a decade they've, they've been making just minimum payments on it.

[George Camel]

Well, there's. So on top of the 13,000, there's $4,000 accrued in interest. So it's a totaling out to around 17.

[Dave Ramsey]

So they took out a loan and they didn't pay on it for a decade?

[George Camel]

Well, there was a good portion of time with COVID forgiveness, I believe that had.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure.

[Caller]

But the balance has grown.

[Dave Ramsey]

They did not pay on it for a decade.

[George Camel]

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.

[Caller]

And now they don't like this payment in their life. They're probably having their own financial problems. They're going, well, it's really his debt, so we should Go after him for it. Except it's not because it's in their name, not yours. So legally is their responsibility.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, there's no question about the legal part. You're talking.

[Caller]

Is this a moral. Ethically, what should I do as the son?

[George Camel]

Yeah, I think that's definitely more what I'm coming from. My wife and I.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you guys make?

[George Camel]

We make roughly about 305 a year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And you have a lot. Do you have money stacked up somewhere?

[George Camel]

No, we don't. I mean, we have an emergency fund. We have 30,000 emergency fund. The only debts we have are a car payment that we're going to have paid off next April.

[Caller]

Can I ask a stupid question, James? Why is a couple making $305,000 having trouble paying for a car in cash, let alone paying off the loan?

[George Camel]

We could have paid it in cash, but we didn't want to dip into our emergency fund.

[Caller]

Where's the $300,000 going? Because in my head, you can clean this debt up and savor the relationship with your parents, or you can let it, you know, crush the relationship because people are petty.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's sort of where that's. So that's what I'm getting to.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. What George is saying is you suck at handling 300 5000. We can't figure out what you're doing with it.

[Caller]

Yeah, this is a sidebar, but it's. It's connected to the first problem because you could clean this up in two months and pay them and say, hey, listen, this really isn't mine legally to pay, but I love you guys. I appreciate what you've done for me. This didn't go down how he thought it would. Here's your money. Pay it off. Even better yet, apply it directly to the loan.

[George Camel]

We have received recent promotions within the last year with our family.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay? So here's what. Here's what I want.

[George Camel]

Here's what I want the entire time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Here's what I would do, Okay? I would commit to getting control of my money so that my home does not look like your father's home. You want to work this hard and make this kind of money, and you want to have something to show for it that includes paying off your car immediately. And I probably, given the disparity in income, the fact that you guys make this much money, I'm probably going to reach over there and just pay that other loan off. But I do think it is completely fair for you to not do that as well if you choose not to, because it's not Fair. That you come up to someone a decade later, tell them something that they didn't even know existed, that they did not agree to, and ask them to pay something from a decade earlier. That's ridiculous. If I had done that, I would have too much honor and pride to tell my kid they had to pay it. I would have gone and delivered pizzas to pay it rather than ask you to pay it. This is not morally right, what your parents are asking you to do. It's maddening and it's frustrating. The only good news is it's a tiny amount of money. Sure, that's the only good news in the story. If it was 130,000, I'm probably just telling them, sorry, guys, you signed up for this crap and you didn't tell anybody. If you had promised them when you were 19 years old and going to school. Yeah, Mom, y' all take out this loan. When I get out, I'll pay it back. It's in their name. You're not legally responsible, but you handshaked. You'd be morally responsible. I'd be telling you to write a check and shut up your whining. But they didn't tell you a stinking thing about it, and that is morally wrong. They should not have done that. You have a right to be angry about that and so does your wife, because she's getting drug into this, too. And then on top of that, you guys make so stinking much money. Now, maybe the recent raises, but I really want you all to get control of your money so that it's not an issue either way. So if I'm you, I'm paying this loan off. And one, just write a check today just to get rid of it. And if you want to have a little sit down with your dad and go, dad, this is not cool. And if you come at me again with another one of these, I'm gonna give you a big fat nope. And you can chew on my big fat nope because I'm not gonna do it. Nope. This is wrong. You shouldn't have surprised me. You shouldn't have done this afterwards. It's wrong. But I'm gonna pay it because I can and I'm gonna get rid of it. I'm with you, George, on that because it's just such a stinking small amount of money.

[Caller]

They make that much in a month, so it's not a big part of their life.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then I'm gonna pay off the car, and then I'm gonna rebuild my emergency fund. And no more borrowing money okay, period, period. Get away from this. It's not. None of this discussion has brought you a blessing. Nothing in this was like, oh, this was so wonderful. No, none of this was wonderful.

[Caller]

These Parent plus loans, Dave, it's a cancer on relationships.

[Dave Ramsey]

They're horrible. Absolutely horrible. That's just. And we see this, we get this call once a month maybe. Yep. Or the parents didn't even tell the kid.

[Caller]

And what's happening is the kid can't qualify. Which is pretty wild because student loan lenders, they'll just give anybody loans. So they go, hey parent, you're gonna take it on at a higher interest rate than a normal loan for the pleasure of your kid going to college. And then they struggle to pay it off a decade later. This is the story we hear time and time again.

[Dave Ramsey]

They haven't paid anything on it in a decade. There's no struggle. They haven't done anything.

[Caller]

They just don't. It's by the wayside. We'll let him worry about that. A decade later.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sat on it. And then they looked up and went, oh, somebody needs to pay this.

[Caller]

Oh my goodness.

[Dave Ramsey]

So moms and dads, this is the problem when everyone goes, student loans don't have a. Oh, student loan is the ultimate emotionally kicking the can down the road. I don't have to worry about it. I'll worry about tomorrow. Worry about tomorrow. Worry about tomorrow. They'll get out, they'll get a degree, they'll get a big job, they'll be making a lot of money. We'll worry about it tomorrow. We'll worry about it tomorrow. We'll worry about it tomorrow. It doesn't matter. All education's worth it. We'll worry about it tomorrow. All these lies you people tell yourself and your kids over and over and over. So they go get a degree that's absolutely free, freaking worthless. And then they got dead around it. And worse than that, some of you didn't even bother to tell anybody. H, it's unbelievable. If your phone bill is more than $25 a month, either you're okay setting money on fire or you're just not paying attention. That's because the big three mobile providers have hidden fees and so called customer service that ignores you when things go wrong. Boost Mobile is different. Boost gives you unlimited talk, text and data for just $25 a month. That's it. No games, no junk fees, no oops, your price just went up. And they've got a 30 day money back guarantee just in case you decide you love paying way more somewhere Else. So switch [e-mail] Ramsey restrictions apply. See boostmobile.com Ramsey for details. Justin's in Spokane, Washington. Hi, Justin, how are you?

[George Camel]

Hey, gentlemen. How are you all doing today?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than we deserve. What's up?

[George Camel]

Well, I can't complain too much, even though I'm going to complain a little bit here. Ultimately, I believe I was misled and taken advantage of by a financial advising group. I'm only out 15 to 20k because of their quote unquote advice. I can go into as little or as much details as you like, but I was actually listening to your show about how terrible whole life insurance policies are and made me think about the one that my financial advisors got me in. It ended up being terrible. But anyways, target audiences, military. I'm in the military and you know, I think they're taking advantage of military individuals. But big two questions are, am I slightly overreacting? And how would you help, you know, or pursue helping you still active duty? I am.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. Thank you for your service. Take it to jag.

[George Camel]

So I did do that. And ultimately they said, you know, yeah, they broke fiduciary responsibility, but it's not worth enough to take it to the court or anything like that.

[Caller]

But you said a lot of other people too, right?

[George Camel]

What's that?

[Caller]

They've done this to a lot of other people.

[George Camel]

Well, so here's the thing. I don't necessarily think people are realizing that they're being taken advantage of because, you know, when I first got with them, I was, I was young. I mean, I guess I still am young, but you know, financial advisors are supposed to provide you with the best course of action.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. These are not financial advisors. These are insurance agents.

[George Camel]

Ultimately. Sure. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's not, not ultimately. That's really all they are. They just tell people they're financial advisors, but really all the license to sell insurance, all they sell is life insurance products. That's all. They're not licensed to sell anything else. And so, so the way they get.

[Caller]

Around it is they can, they can get you investing, quote unquote through the insurance policy.

[Dave Ramsey]

But you, you got a, you got a bad whole life policy and got ripped off with a bunch of fees and when you cashed it out, you got nothing, Is that what you're saying?

[George Camel]

Yeah, and it's, I'm still struggling to cash it out because, you know, it's, it's a terrible thing. It's made me feel like I've gotten behind, you know, setting myself up for retirement in the long run.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you have about 15 grand, but it's not the end of the world. You're okay. A lot of people have done a lot dumber things than you've done, and they've recovered and become multimillionaires. So I'm not worried about you there. It's not a devastating, devastating blow that cannot be recovered from. It's a mere aggravation. And it pisses you off because you got lied to. And that part's fair. But it's not. It's not. Don't take it to the ultimate drama and go, oh, this is a death blow. It's not. It's not at all. It's a deep scratch. That's it. And as far as the actual math goes, that's what it is. Emotionally. Yeah. You'll be pissed them probably the rest of your life. I kind of am. So, you know, I'll go with that. Which company was.

[George Camel]

Was First Command Financial advising?

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. The thing I would do, because we were t. We were teaching Financial Peace University for a long time in the military, and so we got to know the guys in the JAG and the guys in the, in the chaplaincy as well. We worked with both of them a lot. And JAG approves or denies or as influences the approval or denial of anyone that sells financial products to active duty actively on. Actively on the base. Okay. I mean, anybody can mail anybody anything. I'm not saying that, but these guys are. They've set up shop there as if they're endorsed by the military, and they're really not. But the military has just allowed them to be there. They have permission to be there. And I think if you can raise enough cane with jag, you can do some damage for their permission to be there. And at least you get some satisfaction with that. That's.

[George Camel]

That's a great start.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Because somebody, I mean, there have been companies, other companies that we, that were there back in the day when we started this stuff 20, 30 years ago that were selling crappy products on the, on the basis. And they've been thrown off, they've been thrown out, and a lot of it started with complaints to jag. So even if you don't do a lawsuit, I'm going to ask what the formal complaint process is for them to remove, be removed from the base. Because they come in there with a military sounding name and they have a presence there where other companies don't. Other companies aren't there and you know, mutual fund companies aren't on the base. They won't Let them on there and they would actually be a much better product, but they won't even let them on. And so instead we've got this company that comes in with a little bit of camo on their dadgum artwork and it looks like somehow they're approved or something or they've been endorsed by. It's a tacit endorsement. And I'm. Can you tell? I'm really not a fan.

[Caller]

So a quick Google search, I mean, every thread and every forum just says run away, run away, run away, run away.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If you pick it up.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Any. Anything on Reddit, anything about first command is get away from them. And so I'm not telling you anything you didn't know. But yeah, I think I'm gonna at least let JAG light them up, you know, just for the fun of it. But. But I think you probably just lost your money. I think you just got sold a bad product.

[Caller]

High fees, high commissions, it takes a decade before it's worth anything. And so getting out like you did, it costs you, and they like it that way.

[Dave Ramsey]

What happens is sunk cost. It didn't cost you as much as if you had stayed in.

[Caller]

Exactly.

[Dave Ramsey]

The good news is it's in your rear view mirror. And from this point forward, you can be smart with your investing. You can understand what you're putting your money into, where it's going, and not get screwed over anymore. But I doubt you have a case against them legally. I think JAG probably gave you good advice on that. But I would, I would just go ahead and light them up and let them know if you guys don't refund this, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna become like your worst. I'm gonna become like an activist. I'm a problem for you. I'm gonna make a hobby out of you people and just go ahead and mess with them multiple ways and make sure you cost them at least as much as they cost you before you. Before you're through with them. That's how I would go at it if I were in your shoes. But I don't think you got a legal case. And you can. There's no. If a mutual fund broker misbehaves, you can go the securities and Exchange Commission if they violate fiduciary. But these guys are not regulated by the SEC because they're not licensed to sell investments. They're only licensed to sell insurance.

[Caller]

That should be your first and final red flag.

[Dave Ramsey]

And insurance licensing is a state level license. So if you're going to sell life insurance or Whole life crap. In Tennessee, you have to get a Tennessee life insurance license, then you have to go get another one in another state unless they have reciprocal with that other state. So. But that's not the way it works if you're going to get a. So let me tell you, I've taken all these tests just to give you guys a bring it all the way full circle, okay? So when I took the life insurance exam, which I later dropped my license because I talked so much about this that I don't want to be regulated. I want to just tell people like it is. Okay? So I don't have a life insurance license now. But when I took the life insurance license in the state of Tennessee, it took me 28 minutes to take the test.

[George Camel]

Test.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I studied for it for about three or four hours. Okay. When I took the securities exam to sell securities, I went to two weekend long courses, studied for about 40 hours, and it took me five hours to take the test. It's like taking a CPA, okay. The other one's like doing a bad book report and your senior in high school. That's the difference between a life insurance exam and a securities exam. It's dramatically different. Okay? If you're going to get a series six, series seven, series 63, to be able to sell mutual funds, you're taking something akin to a CPA exam or sitting for the bar. You've got to get your crap together. You got to take some classes on how to take the test. You've got to study, study, study. They're going to anticipate the questions. You really got to get ready. Life insurance, for that matter. Real estate license, a freaking joke in comparison. So don't get the two confused when they say they're a light. When they say they're an investment advisor and they don't sell anything but life insurance products, they're lying. They're a life insurance agent. Yep. And they're almost always a cash value life insurance agent in that case. Because if they sell term life, they'll just say, oh, I'll sell term life. They don't think anything about it. They don't have to go, oh, I'm a financial advisor, which is a load of horse manure.

[Caller]

The lesson learned, never mix your insurance and investing.

[Dave Ramsey]

Hate it.

[Caller]

First red flag, run away. If they're trying to mix the two together.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, the first command of first command is run. The bottom line of a break in is more than financial. It also costs you peace of mind. So when it comes to protecting your home and the things you've worked so hard for. Don't wait for trouble to show up. Plan ahead. That's why I recommend Simplisafe. See, most security systems only do something after someone's already broken in. But by then, it's too late. Simplisafe's active guard outdoor protection changes all that. That it's like having a guard at your house who never clocks out. SimpleLife cameras use AI to spot trouble around your property. And if something doesn't look right, a live agent can step in. They can talk to the person, activate a spotlight and call the police. Simplisafe also helps protect against fires and floods. Simplisafe is always working for you and that restores your peace of mind. It's simple, it works and it's a smart investment. And right now you can get 50% off a new SimpliSafe system with 24. 7 professional [e-mail] that's 50% [e-mail] there's no safe like SimpliSafe. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, Ramsey personality number one, best selling author, host of the George Camel show. One of our hits on the YouTube Ramsey network. Be sure and check it all out. He's my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Tiffany. Tiffany is in Salt Lake City. Hi Tiffany, how are you?

[George Camel]

Hi Dave. I'm great and honored to speak to you.

[Dave Ramsey]

You too. How can we help?

[George Camel]

Thank you. I just have a pretty simple question and I feel like it should be a simple answer but it's got me baffled. So I am working on baby step number two. The bottom of my pile is my student loan because that's the biggest. But I just realized that I am on the extended repayment plan, which means that my monthly payment is not even covering the interest. So each month my balance goes up. Yes. And so do I want to continue that while I work on my other debts or do I need to raise that up so it doesn't continue? Continue to increase.

[Dave Ramsey]

Doesn't matter. You're going to get out of debt exactly the same time regardless of which you do. I personally would let it ride the way it is. How much other. How much total debt have you got? Not counting your house.

[George Camel]

About127.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. How much of that? Student loans?

[George Camel]

94 between mine and my husband.

[Dave Ramsey]

And your household income is what.

[George Camel]

About 1:10, 1:20.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so clearing 33,000 gets you to the student loans, right?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's the 33,000? That's not student loans.

[George Camel]

I have 6,000 in a vehicle, and then I have 26 in a second mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay.

[George Camel]

The second mortgage was our well went dry, and we had to hook onto city water.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Okay.

[George Camel]

So we just have those two and then our student loans.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So how quick do you think you get through the. The second mortgage and get to the. Get to the student loans? How quick you think you get through 33 making one? What'd you say you make, 120?

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Six months?

[George Camel]

I don't know. Maybe. Maybe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so in six months, those problems goes away. Okay. So let's pretend for a second. Okay. Let's pretend 50 bucks a month is not being covered. That's probably more than that. It's 100 bucks a month is not being covered by your student loan payment. And you keep the payment where it is. So your balance goes up by $600 while you knock out the other 33,000 before you get around to the student loan. Okay. Or you raise the payment by 600 bucks and it slows down, you getting the 33,000 done by 600 bucks. So that's what I mean by it's a wash. When you get to the end of the story, you will have paid off all of these debts in exactly the same speed, regardless of whether you speed up the student loan now to feel better about it and slow down the 33. Or now we're going to speed up the 33 and let the student loan go backward a little bit by that same amount. Because whatever you're not putting on the student loan, you're putting on the 33. You follow me?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So it washes out in the end.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

It's just frustrating to see that balance go up while you're underwater already. How long has this debt been hanging around you guys?

[George Camel]

We both graduated six years ago.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good.

[George Camel]

But. So we've been paying on it for, I think, three years because of the COVID thing. We didn't pay on it for those three years.

[Caller]

And you got roped into this extended repayment thing thinking it was going to be a blessing.

[George Camel]

Yes. I guess on mine. Yes. My husband's. We've been paying the full amount, but mine, we did it. And I think we did it that way, thinking that because I was going to go into public service, it would be forgiven. And now I've done all the research and it's not. We just need to pay it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good. I like your plan.

[Caller]

Good self awareness.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, very good. I agree with your research. How much of this 120 or how much of the 90 is you and how much is your husband's?

[George Camel]

His is 43 and mine's 51.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Not much difference. Are they. Any of them broken up into smaller loans or is it two simple loans?

[George Camel]

Yeah, they're both. I think we both have 12 smaller loans that make up that total.

[Dave Ramsey]

So six are six each or 12 each?

[George Camel]

12 each.

[Dave Ramsey]

Wow. Okay. All right. So that's going to be fun. That's going to really make the snowball sing because you're going to get to have this emotional feedback, psychological feedback of knocking out one, knocking out one, knocking out one,. Knocking out one. I mean, crap, if we break it down that way, it's smaller than. No longer is. Your second mortgage is now your largest debt.

[George Camel]

Right?

[Dave Ramsey]

I think I put it at the back. Okay.

[George Camel]

That was my other question then.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I treat those little loans like individual loans, because they are.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

And then knock one out, then knock another one out, then knock another one out. And that. That solves the problem even faster because then we've only got the one little debt to get rid of before we get into the student loan debts. What's your smallest student loan debt of the. Of the 24?

[George Camel]

600.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, God. See, that's.

[Caller]

That's like gone.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, that's your first one. Just get it paid off and reset. Reset your debt snowball. Treating each of these 24 loans as individual loans.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

How are you guys keeping track of all this right now?

[George Camel]

With paper and pencil.

[Caller]

Gross. How about we get you every dollar and get you hooked up there. It'll list out your debts, smallest to largest for you, help you keep track of it and help you take control of all that money you have coming in from that120. Help you clean this up faster. So hang on the line. We'll gift that to you so that you and your husband can have full accountability, transparency in your pocket wherever you go.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. The EveryDollar financial app is going to walk you through. It'll put you on a budget and help you walk the steps exactly like we're talking about here, like George was saying. So we'll give that to you as our gift. Hang on. Wow. Very cool.

[Caller]

That's overwhelming. Just looking at a piece of paper going, here's 48 debts I'm looking at. That's a lot.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, what though she's going to be okay. You know how I know?

[Caller]

She knew her numbers.

[Dave Ramsey]

She knew exactly where she was.

[Caller]

Well, I think it was somewhere in the 40 or 50. No, she got exactly down to the penny.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know the secret weapon is Tiffany. That's the secret weapon in this conversation. She's her own secret weapon. So she's, she's got it on paper and pencil, but she's got it down. More than 99% of America has it down. She's got it dialed in. She's gonna be okay because she's in attack mode.

[Caller]

She's already looked in the financial mirror and knows exactly what is to be expected.

[Dave Ramsey]

And this is the same person who looked at the all the bull crap on the Internet about debt forgiveness loans and was able to read bull crap. She could see it right there between the lines. It says bull crap when you look at it. And she saw it right there. This is, she's that self aware, she's that dialed in. She didn't call me up and go I'm waiting on Biden. Oh wait, Biden's gone.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, the new administration, they're not playing nice with these debts. They're like hey, everyone's going to pay the stuff they signed up for.

[Dave Ramsey]

You just told me. I didn't know this big beautiful bill did away with Parent plus loans.

[Caller]

They were getting rid of the federal parent plus all the grad loans that they were handing out out thank not going to be any longer.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's awesome.

[Caller]

The government getting out of the lending.

[Dave Ramsey]

Game a little bit out of the lending. There's barely still making student loans but good at least get rid of Parent plus. Cuz it's kind of like Parent minus. Like the parents are no longer in your life cuz they're pissed. Oh.

[Caller]

Let'S be real. Buying your first home can feel like reading IKEA instructions upside down. It's confusing and stressful and you have no idea if that cam bolt is supposed to go there. And if you try and buy a home with some click and go lender, well good luck because you're just another line on their spreadsheet. So here's the thing. When I was buying my home, I didn't want to just be a loan number. I wanted a relationship with a real person. Someone who was willing to answer all of my questions along the way and understood my goal of paying off my mortgage fast. And that's why I love Churchill Mortgage. They don't rush you, they don't try to sell you more house than you need, they listen, they walk with you step by step and offer guidance so that you understand what you can actually afford. So they teach you how to do it the right way so that you have margin and peace with the goal of becoming completely debt free. So if you want rock solid advice on how to buy a home the right way, connect with a Churchill loan specialist [e-mail] that's churchillmortgage.com this is a paid advertisement in MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org equal housing lender.

[Dave Ramsey]

Julie is in Atlanta. Hi, Julie, how are you?

[George Camel]

Hey, I'm good. Thank you for taking the time to chat with me today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[George Camel]

So I am on baby step two. My husband and I started off with about $108,000 in credit card debt. We've been paying this down since I returned to work. Kind of the middle of 2022. We didn't start making big payments towards the balance until I had about a year working. But we were planning for it. So so far we paid off just over $32,000 towards this debt in three years. Yes, yes, we have.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make?

[George Camel]

So I make about 85,000 a year before tax my hundred. My husband makes one about 140.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you have a $220,000 household income and you only managed to pay off $10,000 worth of debt a year. Well, that sucks.

[George Camel]

It's been more. It's been more two years that we've been paying it off.

[Dave Ramsey]

You told me middle of 23. This is the middle of 25. Or you said middle of 22. I'm sorry, this middle of 25.

[George Camel]

Yeah. So it's been about two years that we've been really.

[Dave Ramsey]

So 15,000 out of 220,000. Still lame.

[Caller]

Do you guys have other debt?

[George Camel]

Thanks for the reminder. So our household expenses are right about $6,000 a month. And with our take home pay, we're rated about 10,000. We're investing for retirement and we have that.

[Caller]

Well, there's one problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

So here's what's happening. Here's what's happening. You're borrowing on credit cards to invest in return retirement.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we need to stop the retirement temporarily. We need to get very, very, very intense about cleaning this debt up in one year.

[George Camel]

And I thought I was doing pretty good, paying off about 32,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

So I'm sorry.

[George Camel]

I felt pretty proud about that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I don't want you to be though. I want to tell you the truth. And I want to love you enough to cause you to win. And you're going to be forever getting out of debt.

[Caller]

You're talking over 10 years.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. So I want you to pay off $100,000 in a year. You make 220. Stop all retirement, temporarily stop the vacation, stop the eating out, stop the everything. And get yourself out of debt. These companies own your soul.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not really sure how much more that could help us. You know, I've crunched the numbers and I've looked at this for a long time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you got it figured out then. I hope it works for you. Thanks for calling. Open phones at 888-825-5 225. Bobby's in Fresno. Hey, Bobby. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Thank you very much, Dave.

[Dave Ramsey]

How can I help?

[George Camel]

Appreciate it. But listen, through all the years, and I just want to reach out to you. I. Me and my wife recently paid off our house about three years ago. We've been trying to save some money, and we got 160. I'm sorry. We got about 175,000 saved up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Cool.

[George Camel]

And we're getting ready to purchase another house. And so I was debating, because I was gonna use it for a rental, if I should just go ahead and put the whole hundred and seventy five thousand down on it. The home is about 292,000. So it'd be, you know, over 50% down. But what I was concerned about is whether I should be investing that much into the one home or if I should leverage myself, keep maybe 50% of that and put maybe 75,000 on one home and 75,000 on a second home.

[Dave Ramsey]

When you start talking about rental property, really, when you talk about anything. But when you talk about rental property, people particularly struggle with one issue. Here's the thing you have to remember. Debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk. More debt equals lower cash flow, less cash position and more risk. So if you buy one house with 50% down, you have less risk than if you take out eight times more debt and spread this over four houses because none of them are going to cash flow. Then this one's barely going to cash flow at 50% down. I love real estate. I know you're full of crap. You've never bought a rental house. I own a bunch of them, okay? So don't flinch here. The deal is that they don't cash flow. All of mine are paid for, and some of them with repairs and vacancies, don't hardly make money. So when you don't get a renter for four months, or one doesn't pay for three months, or you put in a heat and air system, it's $14,000. Or you have to put on a roof because it's leaking and you got to pay property taxes and insurance. Even if it's paid for, you don't get a ton of cash flow unless you manage the property extremely well and you buy it cheap. So this idea that the payment versus the rent as the cash flow is a naive formula and an incomplete formula. When you run an actual operating statement on an investment property, you have all these other expenses, including loss due to non payment and vacancy and legal costs while you evict the people that didn't pay and all the repairs and all the stuff you didn't think of when you had this idea that you saw on the Internet, I want to buy a rental house. So all that to say, I definitely wouldn't buy more than one. And you're not even going to like this. I wouldn't even buy one right now until you have the money. I'd pay cash for it or wouldn't do it, so I'd save up some more. You've done a really good job saving money, but you know, the grass is not always greener over the septic tank, man. It's just not. So I'm going to tell you, I own a bunch of rental properties, several hundred million dollars worth. Most of it today is commercial. I think we only own about 15 or 20 houses now. We've gotten rid of most of the house. We make good money on them, but they're a pain in the butt to deal with. And I love real estate. As I said, I've got several hundred million dollars in real estate. I love it. I think it's a great investment. But it is an incomplete picture when you don't consider all the expenses.

[Caller]

Yeah, because you got the hassle factor, regardless if it's in cash or with debt. But then you have the risk factor added to it when it's leveraged, quote unquote.

[Dave Ramsey]

I mean, when your gross cash flow if it's rented is a few hundred dollars, you're losing money every year.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

In that case. And so. And that's where you're going to put yourself if you leverage into a bunch of properties. And that's how people go broke in real estate. And then they go, well, you know, real estate's not as good news. Yes, real estate's an excellent investment, but it is an investment that requires a cash position in order to lower the risk of it. And when you lower the risk, your returns go way up. But that is required that you do this. So our suggestion around here, Bobby, is we pay cash for investments, real estate, businesses, whatever it is you're gonna buy, I pay cash for it or don't buy it. And that slows down the speed at which you build your portfolio, but it keeps you from having to do it over, from going broke. And when you go do all this leverage stuff, if I'm gonna go buy six houses with the same money I could have bought one with, and you know you've lowered your cash flows dramatically, increased your risk dramatically, and one little California upheaval where you are, and you got a serious problem on your hands in. So I probably didn't talk you out of it because I think you kind of been. You got tick tock, real estate fever.

[Caller]

They called in to ask, can I put less down? And you said, you got to put more down. But the good news is you saved up 175 grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think that's amazing.

[Caller]

So here's. Here's the filter to look at the. I need to save up 120 grand more. I'm 120 grand short of goal. That's a solvable problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

But he's already picked out a house and he's already got the fever, so I doubt I'm talking him out of the tree.

[Caller]

He's already seeing real estate mogul in his future.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm talking to the rest of the people listening around. Oh, man. Maybe get one of them out of the tree. But you guys get up in the tree, you can't get them out. But I hope, Bobby, you'll wait. If I could convince you that I love you and I want you to win and I want you to own real estate, and I think you did really good getting to 175. And I could convince you that if you'll go slower, you'll have a much greater rate of return over the long haul. That you know that. That that's what the data tells us. And that's what my life story tells us as well. For those of you that don't know, I started from nothing. I bought my first base piece of real estate when I was 21 years old. I borrowed as much as I could borrow on all of it up to my eyeball because I was the leverage king. You think you know something about leverage? I had you dialed in. I could borrow money from people that borrowed money. It was unbelievable. I had four million dollars worth of real estate by the time I was 26 with a three million dollar debt, a million dollar net worth making $200,000 a year in 1984 and that portfolio bankrupted me. Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by why refi when the payments on your defaulted private student loan is as much as some mortgages hard to get ahead? That's when Y refi can help refinancing to a lower fixed rate built in loan just for you. Custom built for you. Find out [e-mail] Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey might not be in all states Today's question.

[Caller]

Comes from Tyrone in Ohio. My grandfather supported a family of six from the 1950s to the 70s. He bought a new house, had a new car and lived comfortably all while working as a grocery store clerk. That same lifestyle today would be considered impossible on that income. This isn't just about being frugal or avoiding debt. He wasn't some minimalist wizard. Is it that businesses today aren't sharing profits with workers? Are costs just that much higher? Or is there something deeper going on in the economy that shifted the rules? I'd love to hear your opinion on this topic. I wasn't around in the 70s, Dave, so I'll let you speak to this one. Your age and wisdom will speak volumes. That's just me questioning what I'm supposed.

[Dave Ramsey]

To answer after that introduction.

[Caller]

I didn't say you were a dinosaur. I was just saying I wasn't around. I can't speak to what things were like back then.

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, so Tyrone, number one, regardless of what happened to your grandfather, you live today. You are not the victim of an evil system. There are plenty of people in America prospering today. You can start and run a business or an idea faster and more profitably today than at any time in human history. If you live in the United States of America, when your grandfather was a grocery store clerk, if you wanted groceries, you generally went to the backyard and picked them. You didn't go to the grocery store. Half the stuff that you order on freaking DoorDash at a 528% markup was grown in your grandfather's backyard. He didn't even buy it at a store. He bought seeds and pumped water out of the cistern and poured it onto the tomato plant. He never bought a tomato in his life. Okay, the second thing is, he didn't buy eggs. There were these things called chickens in the backyard and they weren't city chickens they were country chickens and they took care of the family. And he probably didn't buy milk if he didn't have his own cow. Somebody down the road did and he went down there and picked up a gallon of milk from them every so often. And it probably wasn't pasteurized and they probably got sick occasionally. It's a completely different world. Oh, 1950s. I'm not sure what percentage of Americans had indoor plumbing, but it wasn't huge.

[Caller]

And the WI fi was terrible.

[Dave Ramsey]

My grandparents, when I went to visit them, one set had indoor plumbing, one set did not. When I was a kid in the 1960s, okay, even up into the 70s with one set. So it's a little different world that you're comparing to. So I'm sorry, but I'm not buying the underlying victim bs, passive aggressive anarchy that your philosophy pot smoking philosophy professor at college told you that things are unfair. Let me tell you where the fair is. It's where the Tilted Whirl is and the cotton candy. That's where fair is. You live in today's world, so you get to go make your way in today's world. By the way, your grandfather drove a car that did not have air conditioning, did not have disc brakes, sure as crap didn't have an airbag unless his mother in law was sitting next to him, okay? And so there was no nothing. Gas was 12 cents a gallon, okay? And so the cars didn't cost anything because they were a piece of crap. I have this fabulous 1960 rebuilt frame up Corvette. I also have a new one. The new one's a lot better. It's not as cute, it doesn't get as many winks from old ladies at a stoplight. But it is a far superior vehicle with a lot more expensive technology on it and cost a lot more than a 1960 Corvette. And by the way, a Corvette was an expensive car in 1960. Your grandpa wasn't driving one if he's a store clerk. He was driving a Chevy maybe and a used one. And the house he lived in, son, didn't have air conditioning, probably didn't have indoor plumbing, had probably recently gotten electricity and was on average 980 square feet. The house I grew up in, I was born in 1960 until we left at 16 years old, was a thousand square foot with an unfinished basement. So you're not comparing apples to apples to get your little anarchy equation going. There must be some systemic evil system where the corporations are keeping all the money and the little men can't get ahead. Bull crap. In your email. It's just absolute. The problem with it, man, for me making fun of you, the problem is that you believe this stuff. And so you sit on your hands instead of going and be somebody. Don't sit on your hands and blame other people that you're a victim. You ain't a freaking victim, dude. Your quality of life, your standard of living is 100 times your grandfather's. And that's if you're a poor person. So what you do is you get up off your butt and you quit ordering doordash for everything. If you want to grow your own vegetables and move out the country and dig you a latrine, you can do that, dude. You probably get you an outhouse kit on Amazon and get going. I mean, you can do this stuff. So, you know, homesteading or whatever you want to call this stuff, right? And so get after it. But that's not the. There's no big conspiracy. You can go out there. I meet young people in their 20s and 30s making more money than I ever dreamed I would make. The number of callers around here that make the household income two people make 200,000 is astronomical. Almost every day. We talked to most of our clients.

[Caller]

Got a bunch on this show. 200,000, 300,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

When I started this show, man, if I got anybody over 100,000 household income calling in here, I was shocked. I thought I had rich people on the phone. And now most of your household incomes are up over that. So this comparison to, well, you baby boomers, you bought your house with a basket of strawberries. Oh, bull crap. You wouldn't live in that house, you entitled snowflake. Good God, it just. You wouldn't even live there. You'd be going, well, I think. I think we need to renovate this. I bought a fixer upper. No, honey, that's how we grew up. You know what was in my living room until I was 13 years old? From the time I was zero.

[Caller]

What's that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Nothing. No furniture, no living room.

[Caller]

You were doing minimalism before it was cold.

[Dave Ramsey]

13 years old, we bought our first set of living room furniture. Wow. Okay. And we weren't poor people. We were middle class, man.

[Caller]

But the crazy part, they didn't even have remote work back then. They didn't have remotes. All they had was work.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, they had a remote. Daddy said, get up and change the channel.

[Caller]

A human remote control.

[Dave Ramsey]

He get your butt up and change the channel. I want to see what Walter Cronkite say instead of David Brinkley.

[Caller]

That's how they kept the kids in shape back then. Well, there was very few obese children.

[Dave Ramsey]

The first, I think we got a clicker when I was a channel changer. And it clicked. It would click, it would did it by audio.

[Caller]

That's why they called it the clicker.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the four buttons. That's why clicker came from. Wow. We got that. I think I was 16 or 15 years old, 1975. And it was click, click. And you could change the channels. It had had four buttons, up and down on volume and right and left up or down on channel, and that was it. But there wasn't but three channels, so there wasn't a whole lot plus uhf. There wasn't a whole lot of jumping around.

[Caller]

There was nothing to stream. No hobbies, no entertainment. All this guy had was the grocery store.

[Dave Ramsey]

And oh, by the way, you know what we paid for our television channels? Nothing. There wasn't cable fees, there wasn't Netflix fees. There wasn't fee, fee, fee, fee, as many fees as a French poodle. I mean, there was no fees. You just turned it on and it magically appeared in your dadgum house, you know, because you put this thing up on top called an antenna. You know, I mean, it was a different world, son. And so this idea that you guys can compare this and say there's an evil force at work to keep poor young people from succeeding is the biggest load of horse manure I've ever heard. When it's easier to make money today than it's ever been in the history of this country, you just decide you want to do something, you start an app, go do it. You want to set up a web store, Shopify will set it up for free and get you going. You're in business. Shut up. You can take used golf clubs and sell them on ebay and make a profit by the end of the day. Never in the history of man can you do stuff like that. Like you can do right now. This is the most wonderful possible time to be alive, if you believe it is. Grace is with us in Nashville. Hi, Grace. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call today.

[Dave Ramsey]

Sure. What's up?

[George Camel]

So we just moved here to the Nashville area about four months ago. My husband is making 140 per year. I'm making 39. Yeah, thank you. Very grateful. $39 per hour for me. We have two kids that are in full time daycare currently. Per week it's $600. And I just moved everyone over to my benefits, so insurance. So I'VE got four on there and it dropped my paycheck bi weekly pretty significantly. So I'm taking home 900 BI weekly. So my question for you, and hopefully this should help other working moms and parents out there, is should I try to find supplemental income to cover the fact that I'm making less than what daycare cost per week or should I?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, you put all the family's insurance on your tab, right?

[George Camel]

Correct. Because I work in healthcare, so my insurance is pretty, pretty good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so I mean, if you are not working because you're not making net money, then the insurance would be on your husband's tab, right?

[George Camel]

Correct. Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so what, what does insurance cost.

[George Camel]

For four kids or, sorry, four individuals, two kids, two adults, dental, vision, and health. With an HSA, it's 630.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. Dental and vision aren't worth the money. Usually. Usually don't even break even on them.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Are you guys debt free?

[George Camel]

We currently have 6,000 on credit card due to unforeseen vet bills and some dental work that we had to have done. And my husband's dental insurance wasn't the best. So that's another motivation to.

[Caller]

So how much total.

[George Camel]

Total right now is $6,205.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, and, and what do you, what do you do?

[George Camel]

I'm a physical therapy assistant.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you're making what, 40 grand?

[Caller]

You said 40 an hour. That's, that's closer to 89 an hour.

[George Camel]

Okay, yeah, 39 an hour. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you're making 80 grand and you're coming home with 48,000. Insurance is not causing that. It's 600. 600 is only 7200 a year.

[Caller]

Are you investing as well out of this paycheck?

[George Camel]

I am.

[Caller]

That's part of it. How much are you investing? What percentage.

[George Camel]

They'Re matching. I'm so sorry, I don't have that number in front of me.

[Caller]

That's okay. There might be a few hundred bucks there, but it just still seems like something's off with this take home pay. But either way, you got to look at the household income when you make this decision. Your husband makes 140. Even with the money you're making, the.

[Dave Ramsey]

Daycare cost, you make 220 a year.

[Caller]

Yeah. So out of the, you know, you're bringing home probably 12k a month. So paying 2,400 bucks for daycare, it's not fun. But that's not tanking you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, George is right. When you put all the income together, we don't worry about, about the fact that you don't take home enough for daycare. Unless there's something we need to figure out in the. What you're purchasing out of your check that needs to stop. That's a possibility. But, I mean, if you're having too much withheld to where you're causing a refund. We don't want to do that. If you're buying insurance that's not needed. We don't want to do that. Our insurance is not a good deal. We don't want to do that. The HSA is a good plan, usually, but if you're making 80 grand, an $800 daycare bill does not make you not work.

[George Camel]

Right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Other stuff combined with it. And if you pull it all and put it all on your ticket and your husband's money's all free and clear, instead of lumping them all together and running it as a household, it makes it look like that you're broke, but you're not broke.

[Caller]

If you guys made 70 and your portion was 30, then I'd say, okay, maybe we should look at pausing daycare and you stay home at 2400 bucks a month. But I'm not seeing that this is not the solution to the problem.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry. It's 800 bucks a week.

[Caller]

You said 600 a week.

[Dave Ramsey]

Daycare.

[George Camel]

600.

[Caller]

Okay, so 2400amonth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, I did it. 600amonth. I goofed on. My bad. Okay, so it's not 7200. Yeah, way off. Okay, I'm sorry. My bad. Yeah, but still.

[George Camel]

Okay. And I think. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's okay. Go ahead.

[George Camel]

I think the biggest shock for me was just seeing that pretty big decrease from my paycheck, you know, once the whole family went on my insurance. So maybe.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. But the thing is, that's not a net net. If you quit and come home, you've still got that expense. It's just over on your husband's.

[Caller]

And it might be more. We don't know.

[George Camel]

Right, right. And we already were on his insurance when we first moved here, before I got the job. And is insurance. I mean, in comparison and what it covers and the copays and everything mindful.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so here's the way we run the formula. Do you come home? Mathematically, there's other considerations than math. Your desire to be at home, you know, special situations with kids. All these different things are reasonable considerations. But the math. The way we run the math is pretend like we bought the health insurance on your husband from your husband's company out of his check Then look at what his check is. And if that's what we've got to live on, can we live on it in our budget? Can we do a budget and pretend like I don't have a income, not counting insurance, because the insurance has got to move over to his. And if we can live on what he takes home after buying the family insurance. And you want to go home. Absolutely, absolutely. But you got to mathematically prove that out. And it's a misnomer to have the insurance in the, you know, act like it goes away when you quit because it doesn't. It moves over to his.

[George Camel]

Yeah, yeah. So true. And maybe too like, you know, you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pick up the daycare as a gain, you pick up whatever else is a gain. You know, you pick up wear and tear on your car to go to work, clothing to go to work, if you do dry cleaning for your clothing to go to work, any of that stuff that if you're. Any meals you're buying because you're tired from working and instead you're going to cook those at home from scratch, you pick up a lot of those kinds of things when you come home. And those are all valid considerations to take out of the budget. And then when we do all of that, can we live on his income without extra car expense, extra clothing expense, no daycare cost? Can we live on his income, his take home pay? And you probably can, depending on where you're living in Nashville you probably can. 140. You ought to be able to, but. But the only difference is you got to pull the insurance and move it over. So the daycare, you're right, is just prohibitive. It just takes the fun out of this. At 600 bucks a week, God, 2400, that's $30,000 a year.

[Caller]

The good news is it's a small portion of their actual take home pay. Whereas for some people daycare is half of their income, for them it's 10%.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So the numbers, Ali, the ratios feel a whole lot better. It might mean some sacrifices on the expense side right now, but it sounds like you guys will have it under control here soon.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, but you know, and if you can figure out a way to do it mathematically, practice living on his take home pay a month or two. That would mean all of your income plus insurance goes into the bank in savings or goes against that $6,000 in debt. Either one. Mathematically practice as if, as if you weren't working, working and he had the insurance costs coming out of his.

[Caller]

Yeah, go make an every dollar budget, do a fake one with this future, what this would look like to make yourselves actually put the facts on paper. And the other thing to think about here is pausing investing. Can we get out of the debt quick, get the emergency fund. I think that's going to give you some peace and you'll make the next move from a place of strength instead of feeling out of control.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, that's exactly right. So it's where the math can talk to you and give you a certain assurance and then some of the rest of it you just kind of push through and you go, okay, that's going to work. I can do that. Because in most fam dual household incomes there is a certain amount of pre prepared meals or eating out that's due to both parents working and a fatigue factor.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. Versus one parent. A mom for instance, is at home cooking from scratch and that's her home economist is her job.

[Caller]

Then we got to bring that back.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. They still teaching that home economics? I think. I think it went out with shop.

[Caller]

This is why all the kids are doing doordash. Dave, this is a major crisis.

[Dave Ramsey]

Can't cut a board and can't make a biscuit. I'm just. Hey, what's up?

[George Camel]

Dr. John Deloney here. The new dates have dropped for the money and marriage getaway over Valentine's day weekend in 2026. This is your chance to hit pause on everything in your life and reconnect with your spouse over a long weekend in Nashville, Tennessee. See me and my friend Rachel Cruz will be digging into topics like sex, money, communication and more.

[Caller]

This weekend is happening on February 12th.

[George Camel]

Through the 14th and early bird. Prices start at $749 per couple but the prices will be going up soon. Get your tickets [e-mail] events.

[Dave Ramsey]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality is my co host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You guys jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. Ava is in Charleston, South Carolina. Hi Ava, how are you?

[George Camel]

Hey, Mr. Dave. I'm good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Camel]

Thanks for taking my call. I guess to kind of. There's a couple different parts to my question but the main thing is where do we start start getting out of debt and how can I get my husband on board to better manage his trading day trading that he does while we are Doing that.

[Caller]

Those feel like they're in conflict with each other. Would you agree?

[George Camel]

Absolutely, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much has he lost, day trading?

[George Camel]

Well, a little bit of background. We got married three years ago and right before we got married he decided that he wanted to refinance the house and he had just started dabbling in the trading stuff and I think he got excited about how much he was getting. So he refinanced the house and got 200k back and we turned it into a 15 year mortgage at $4,000 a month. And he put most, I would say he put 90% of the money towards the day trading and it's all gone now.

[Caller]

So he mortgaged the house in order to gamble?

[George Camel]

Yes. If that's yes. Yeah. I just didn't realize, I guess what was happening at the time.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just like I said, where my confusion is is why he's not on the phone saying, I pissed away 200k, my wife's getting ready to kill me, how can I straighten out my life? Instead his wife calls and says, how can we manage around his little day dating problem?

[George Camel]

Absolutely, I agree with you. 100.

[Caller]

Where is he at with all this difficult Is he think, well I'll just day trade my way out of this one? Yeah, that's his game plan?

[George Camel]

I think so, yes. And part of it is I don't really understand all the trading stuff.

[Dave Ramsey]

And I think you do. I think you understand he turned 200,000 into zero.

[Caller]

Worst magic trick ever.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And it was kind of like when everything was going well and then it crashed.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, honey, it wasn't a crash. What's the statistic on day trading, George?

[Caller]

97% lose money if they persist for more than, I believe it's 100 days or 300 days. AKA pretty much nobody's making money from this. And most are actually losing money.

[Dave Ramsey]

97% failure at this is called don't do it. Okay, so here's where we start. You guys need to have a reset in your marriage, in your relationship and in his head. And I can't help you. We can't help you. There is no Ramsey technique for continuing to lose 200k regularly and turning that into a wealth plan. We don't have the technique that's that good. So what you've got to do is you guys are going to have to sit down tonight and go, honey, you're doing cocaine and you're going to stop. Are you going to do that?

[George Camel]

I have done that.

[Dave Ramsey]

But he didn't stop.

[George Camel]

He didn't stop and I, I I can see that.

[Dave Ramsey]

He.

[George Camel]

He's on it all day, every day. I can see that. And so I'm definitely not naive to think that he. He's addicted to it, I think. And I think he wants to try to fix whatever happened before, because we had that blowout about what happened before. But I'm just trying to figure out.

[Dave Ramsey]

97% of the people who do what he is doing lose money. That's all of them. Ava. I'm sorry, honey.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's only one way. There's only one way your family survives is if this man stops doing this.

[George Camel]

This. And that's what I was wanting to hear, because I'm all about him stopping it because we have to get out of debt.

[Caller]

Like, how much debt are you guys in?

[Dave Ramsey]

They have 200,000 on their house. And what else extra 200,000 on their house.

[George Camel]

Well, to throw in something even more. We're actually getting a new house. We're putting our. Our house that we have now on the market.

[Dave Ramsey]

No, you're not. You're broke.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Your husband doesn't have an income.

[George Camel]

What we're doing.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make.

[George Camel]

What we're doing?

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you.

[George Camel]

So I just stopped working about six months ago. I had my second baby, and I worked as a cardiac nurse.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so what do you guys use for food? Money? Are you paying bills?

[George Camel]

She tells me that we just. Right now, we have less coming in than what's coming out, which I do understand that, and I know that that.

[Dave Ramsey]

Was easy to calculate.

[Caller]

My toddler could do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

How are you? How are you? You don't know how you're paying bills?

[George Camel]

I don't. And that's why. That's part of the reason why I'm calling, because I don't even know where to start, because I.

[Caller]

Can you log into the bank account.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where we start is you have a meeting tonight and says, honey, we're not buying a new house. We're broke. I'm scared. What you're doing is terrifying me. I have a new baby, and we have got to have a different system where I understand what's going on with all the money and you. And you have stopped day trading. If he does not do that, it's the same thing as him having a line of cocaine in the middle of the coffee table in the living room.

[Caller]

You're letting a drunk drive the car right now. It's time you take over. He has an addiction. It's going to bankrupt the family, and you need to take over.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys have got to have some really radical changes. I don't think you're scared enough. I don't think you realize what's going on because at the rate you're going to, I mean, no, you cannot work a system because there's no system that works through a 97% failure rate. There's just not one. And I'm so sorry you're going through this with a new baby and everything else and I'm killing your dreams. But I didn't kill your dreams. You just called up and I gave you a reality check. So we love you guys. We want you to win. And there is no possible way. There's no possible way that cocaine addicts and day traders end up prosperable, prosperous, five years from the day they start. Zero. It doesn't exist. It's a lie, mathematically. Okay, if I thought he could win, if I thought there was a 20% chance he could win, we can have a discussion. But when you have a 97% failure rate, then you just don't do it. It's irresponsible to your wife and your kid. You have to be like a grown up and stuff. And so, okay, I'm gonna go like make money and pay bills and take care of my family and then we'll worry about how we can build some wealth. But there's something broken in your house and you guys have really got a. I'm so sorry. Honestly, this is. You've got a real relational mess on your hands and, and I'm scared that you're vaguely aware of it, but not as afraid as you should be. And I don't want to create melodrama, but, but, but you know, you're going to call me up as a single mom in eight months because you're going to realize that you, you know, he's going to come in and they're going to start taking stuff out of the driveway and they're going to start. The sheriff's department's going to start showing up at the door, door and your house is going to get foreclosed on. Both of them. The new one and the old one that haven't been leveraged or that are leveraged and oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, I'm trying to. If I could get him by the shirt collar and just say, son, wake up. You're killing yourself and your family. Stop it. I would, but he's got to care.

[Caller]

More about his family than his gambling addiction.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

That's the only hope this relationship and this future has.

[Dave Ramsey]

Amen. I'm sorry. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Bankrupt with a toddler and a brand new baby at home. Scared doesn't even begin to cover it. But I got mad enough to change. I started using God's and Grandma's ways of handling money. That journey became the Total Money Makeover, a plan everyday people can use to take control of their money. Millions have changed their lives following the plan in this book and found hope. Start your makeover [e-mail] coordinators on financial peace University are everyday heroes who share the hope and freedom that comes with an FPU class and that deserves to be celebrated. Join us at the virtual 2025 Coordinator Rally this coming Thursday, July 24th to celebrate the impact that you coordinators are making. Whether you've coordinated a class before or you want to see what coordinating leading an FPU class is all about, you're invited. You're going to hear from Jade Warshaw, George Camel, Dr. John DeLoney and other special guests. We're giving away $3,000, so register for your chance to win. Register for [e-mail] rally or click the note in the show. Notes. Dominic is with us in Phoenix. Hey Dominic, what's up?

[George Camel]

How's it going?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

[George Camel]

So I'll be as brief as possible, but essentially my mother has been taking advantage of me financially over the last couple years, so trying to just figure out what the best steps are moving forward and how to set myself up for success.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm sorry, what, what does that mean? That sounds horrible. Your mother has been taking advantage of you? How old are you?

[George Camel]

I just turned 24 on Saturday.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And what, what has your mother been doing to take advantage of you financially?

[George Camel]

So she was part of a business scam essentially with her business. They told her that she won a lawsuit. The whole thing was a scam. Ended up sending them tens of thousands of dollars and she came to me for help and to make the payments on that essentially gave her over $10,000 cash as well as taking out multiple loans in my name which I am now stuck with the payments on. In addition to co signing the mortgage for the house which she is now making several late payments on my.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how old were you when all that happened?

[George Camel]

It's been going on for several years now. So it essentially first started when I was was 20 when we first moved out here.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. At what point did you realize this was not going to work and stop it?

[George Camel]

Essentially once at the beginning of this year. Once I moved out on my own and I realized the significance of how far behind I was on all of this. It didn't really click to me when I was still living with her because I was just under her roof, you know, following her rules, not really thinking, thinking too much of it until I tried to get my own place and realized again how far I was behind. And now seeing how my credit is completely ruined and these loan payments are just destroying me, trying to take care of Brent.

[Dave Ramsey]

So how much, how much debt have you signed up for to help your mom?

[George Camel]

So the house is, I want to say, over. Over 400,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Aside from the house, you co signed the house. The other debts are just in your name, right?

[George Camel]

Yes. Correct. So the loan payments are in my name only. Those equal to about, I want to say 4,000 as of right now. Again, I've been making the on time payment.

[Dave Ramsey]

So $4,000 gets you out of this mess, not counting the CO signature on the house.

[George Camel]

And then I also have a vehicle loan of about $8,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Who's got the vehicle, you or her?

[George Camel]

It's me.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, so you have that. Okay.

[George Camel]

Yes, yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so the abuse was $4,000 plus co signing a mortgage.

[George Camel]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

What are you.

[George Camel]

I'm on track to make about 50 this year.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good for you. Okay. All right, so here's the good news. The math of the abuse is a one and a half to a two. On a scale of one to ten, the emotional damage that your mother did this to you is a 10 out of 10.

[George Camel]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

It breaks your heart and it confuses you as a young man trying to get started. The person who should be the most taking care of you instead has been taking advantage of you.

[George Camel]

Yes, 100%.

[Dave Ramsey]

So real simple, just clean up $12,000 worth of debt, pay off your car, pay off the loan loans as fast as you can. The sooner you get them paid off, the sooner, because every time you write a check or submit a payment in the computer, it rakes your fingernails across the chalkboard of your heart. It hurts again. And so I want that out of your life. I want the $4,000 loan paid off as soon as possible. If you work, do you have any money saved? No, It's.

[George Camel]

Honestly, at this point, it's.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you just got out and you just got a $50,000 job. Okay. And you're working 40 hours?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I want you to pick up, I want you to pick up a side hustle. Pick up a side hustle. And I want you to pay off this $12,000. Really? Really fast, okay. Like before Christmas. I want it gone. Okay. Now, if you don't have a car payment and you don't have $4,000 in debt, the only outstanding problem is the co signing on the mortgage. Does that make sense?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. And she's going to continue to trash your credit because she's not going to pay it on time and you're not going to pay it. You do not pay it. Do you hear me? Do not pay the house payment. Yes, under any circumstances. Do not pay the house payment. Okay. Now, what is owed on the house in total? Do you know?

[George Camel]

Again, I was just looking on Experian and I believe it's at 430,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you think the house is worth it?

[George Camel]

There's not going to be. It doesn't have much equity on it at all. We just moved in last year, I believe, so we'd be lucky to get what it's worth.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I thought you refinanced the house to pay the scam, not to move in.

[George Camel]

No, no, it was never refi. Refinanced. It's just everything that. That we had come out of pocket because she had the money at the time to pay. But then they just. The was a total of almost $100,000 that she gave, including the 10,000 that I gave her out of pocket. So the house is.

[Dave Ramsey]

So you lost $10,000 of your money?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Dave Ramsey]

Where did you get that all these.

[George Camel]

At the time, I was just saving up because I was still living with her, so it was a lot easier to. To save up. At the time, I was paying her rent as well, but not nearly what I'm paying now, living on my own.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Man, I'm so sorry. This is such a scar and such a thing to emotionally overcome. So the only way the co signing goes away is if she refinances the house or sells the house and pays off the mortgage. Until then, your co signature is going to be tearing up your mortgage, tearing up your credit forever.

[Caller]

And the fact that you had to co sign tells me that she can't afford this on her own if she chose to refinance, which means she can't live there.

[Dave Ramsey]

So your best case scenario is you talk her into selling the house to get both of you free. That's not likely. This woman is not concerned about other people. She's concerned about herself. But if you can talk her into that, that's your best case scenario. Your next best case is just wait it out and your credit gets destroyed until some day she wakes up and sells the house. Okay. Your third option, which is not a good one, but it's an actual option, is to sue her and cause the house to be sold because she's not paying the payment and she's destroying your credit. But I don't recommend that. It's gonna be very expensive and you will never have a conversation with your mother again. Even though I'm not sure that'd be a bad thing in this case.

[Caller]

But the house is gonna get sold. The question is, do you want to do it with her under control or someone selling it for her in a foreclose? Yeah, the lender going, hey, you got to get out.

[Dave Ramsey]

If she comes to you for a payment, do not give her a dime. Did you hear me?

[George Camel]

Yes, sir, I hear you.

[Dave Ramsey]

Are you going to do that?

[George Camel]

Of course. I'll never. I'll never make a payment towards that ever again.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. If you ever give her another dime, then you fall back into the web of the spider. Okay? Okay.

[George Camel]

Correct.

[Dave Ramsey]

Don't do it. You've got to walk clean and go make a life for yourself. And then forgive her from that position of strength because she's obviously messed up. I'm so sorry. She was so scared and so desperate after getting scammed that she trashed her own child. And that's how afraid she was. And that's a sad, sad thing and a sad place to be. And I'm sorry for your broken heart. So lastly, Dominic, I think if I were you, I would sit down with a good local pastor. Make sure you get a relationship built in a good church and get around some people who are. Who treat people well and love people well and don't take advantage of people because you need some normal human beings in your life because you hadn't had one in a while.

[Caller]

You've had a of lot of trauma.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. I'm sorry, man. I'm so sorry. Bad some people's parents Foreign.

[Caller]

Hey, guys. George Camel here with some exciting news for our Financial Peace University coordinators. If you've ever led FPU or even just thought about it, you've got to join us for our coordinator rally happening on July 24th. It's packed with insider updates, powerful stories and encouragement from me, Jade Warshaw and Dr. John Delegate Baloney. It's totally free and when you register, you'll be entered to win our $3,000 giveaway. So just head to fpu.com rally to save your spot today. That's fpu.com rally.

[Dave Ramsey]

Buying or selling a home is a big deal with all the clickbait headlines and confusing data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. If you want to know what's happening with the latest trends, what prices are really doing, how many houses are really on the market, what the actual interest rates are. Not a bunch of garbage, but what the actual facts are. Ma'. Am. Just the facts, ma'.

[George Camel]

Am.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, check it out. You can go to ramseysolutions.com market or click the link in the show notes on the debt free stage in the lobby lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Ryan and Chelsea are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hey, Dave. Hey, George. How you doing? Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live?

[Caller]

We live in Memphis, Tennessee.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesome. And how much debt have you two paid off?

[Caller]

We paid off 164,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Awesome. How long did that take? Just shy of 12 months. Whoa. And your range of income during that year? 300,000 all the way through. Okay, very cool. What do y' all do for a living?

[Caller]

I'm an HR manager and I'm a pilot.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, very good. Maybe FedEx. Ah, maybe. Maybe. All right, very cool. Good for you guys. Very fun. Well, Memphis, welcome to Nashville. 164,000. What kind of debt was this?

[Caller]

It's a house.

[Dave Ramsey]

You paid off your house? How old are you Two weirdos?

[Caller]

I'm 29. I'm 34.

[Dave Ramsey]

And you have a paid for freaking house. What's the house worth?

[George Camel]

350. Woohoo.

[Caller]

Fantastic.

[Dave Ramsey]

I love it. Not even 30 years old for you. Wow. Wow, that's so weird. I love it. And how much have you guys got in your nest egg nowadays? Retirement? About 550 for retirement. So you're just, in about 20 minutes gonna be baby steps millionaires. That's right. Yeah. Way to go, guys. Way to go. I'm so proud of you. Wow, you are power couple here. So what happened that made you guys go nuts and do this Ramsey stuff and get your house paid off by 30 and 34 years old? We actually got married a year ago.

[Caller]

In June and we were both Ramsey people before we even met, so.

[Dave Ramsey]

So we were just on the same team.

[Caller]

Was it like a Ramsey dating app you guys met through what happened?

[Dave Ramsey]

It was. It was. Yeah. No, but there's not one but. Yeah, there should be. No, we met and we, we started talking and we found out within a couple dates that we were both on the same page financially and most of our beliefs. And so whenever we got married, we.

[George Camel]

Just had a plan to knock it.

[Dave Ramsey]

Out as fast as we could. Yeah, just Combined income and pay this. Absolutely. Did one of you already own the house before marriage? Yeah, I started on it a few.

[George Camel]

Years before, so, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, so you marry, he moves into your house. Now it's our house. And now we're going to spend 12 months at over $10,000 a month going on this thing.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Wow, that is incredible. I look at what happens when two fiscally responsible adults get together. I mean, you guys are just like the exponential wealth building is so inspiring.

[Dave Ramsey]

I'm just betting neither one end up in Congress. That's what I'm betting.

[Caller]

I hope not. Yeah, they're better off.

[Dave Ramsey]

We would be better off, but not them. Pretty amazing, y'. All. So did you grow up with this stuff or. I mean, where did this come from? From. He found it earlier on in life than I did.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

My parents always lived on a very similar.

[Caller]

Similar mentality dealing with money. But it was actually a gentleman that I worked with at a theme park.

[Dave Ramsey]

In Branson called Silver Dollar City.

[Caller]

And he introduced me to your. To your teachings in about 2011.

[Dave Ramsey]

2012. And I was just like, whoa, this makes so much sense. Okay. Yeah. So you were. That's before, obviously, before you were a pilot. Well, I was in flight school.

[Caller]

I had one year left, so I finished it up. And pretty much everything I. I made.

[Dave Ramsey]

From there on out went to school loan.

[Caller]

So this is my second debt free.

[Dave Ramsey]

Ah, Love it.

[Caller]

That's right.

[Dave Ramsey]

Very good, Very good.

[Caller]

Did you expect to do it in 12 months? Did you guys have a goal in mind?

[George Camel]

We had a goal, yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

Initially we were thinking about 15 or 16 months, and then we kind of got a little tighter with the money, and we thought it was going to be 11, and it was about 11 and a half.

[Caller]

Wow. Was it kind of addictive as you got going? You're like, how much faster can we do? Can we beat our goal?

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah. Especially towards the end. Yeah. You gamified it both. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

We were so ready to be done.

[Dave Ramsey]

I want the purple ring. Yeah, I like it. Yeah.

[Caller]

What's next for you guys? I mean, your baby step seven at 30, 29, and 34.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

What are you looking forward to?

[George Camel]

I mean, a new car.

[Dave Ramsey]

New car. Yeah.

[Caller]

She's still driving her high school car, so that's coming up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Definitely. Definitely an upgrade.

[Caller]

It's time. Yep. Absolutely.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And that's it.

[Caller]

Just living and giving like no one else now.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's right.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

We like to live modestly, and vacations.

[Dave Ramsey]

Is kind of our thing, so that's. That's what we look forward to. What's the big vacation? What would be the next big one? Oh, man. Got one you're dreaming about.

[Caller]

He'd love to go to the Maldives.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's probably next for us.

[Caller]

Yeah, I thought we'd go back to Branson. Little silver Dollar city action. You know, I go, wow, what do you tell? You know, a young couple out there who's looking at you guys going, well, must be nice for them.

[George Camel]

You know, I've heard that a lot.

[Caller]

And personally, I think it's easier if you're like, if you're doing any type of thing in life whether.

[Dave Ramsey]

No matter what, it is easier to.

[Caller]

Have a teammate than an opponent. So be on the same page. That's good.

[Dave Ramsey]

Good line. Yep. Nice line. Yeah. And, you know, you guys got a great income between the two of you. That's. That doesn't hurt the math in this process at all. But. But you also just set a very clear goal. Complete a great agreement and unity on the goal and, you know, just attack plan. I mean, sounds like a pilot with a flight plan to me. Yeah.

[Caller]

And there was zero lifestyle creep with your story, which is so rare usually. We took calls today where someone made 300 grand and they were broke.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And yet you guys took control of it day one because you were on the same page, aligned with your values, your vision, where you wanted to go. And I think that that might be the secret sauce. Was there any other kind of secret sauce that caused this to happen? What was the key to getting out of debt? No, you pretty much hit it on the head there.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, if you.

[Caller]

If you are intentional with the money when it hits your bank account and.

[Dave Ramsey]

You put it where it needs to go before you have a chance to.

[George Camel]

Be tempted to spend it, there's.

[Dave Ramsey]

There's no temptation left because it's not there. Do you pretend to go?

[Caller]

You got to pre decide. Absolutely. If you decide when the money's in your bank account, you're going to mess it up.

[Dave Ramsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Caller]

But if you pre decide where it's going to go by doing a budget, having a goal, it's amazing that how your money will behave. Love that.

[Dave Ramsey]

So did you have people cheering you on? Everybody? Oh, yeah. Really?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

They were going for you. You didn't have any. Any detractors. Anybody said you were crazy?

[Caller]

No, not very many.

[Dave Ramsey]

Really? That's good. That's good. Well, you don't really talk. You're not the kind of people tolerate that anyway.

[Caller]

So you seem to surround yourself with quality people.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, we do. That's what I mean. Yeah. Well done, you guys. We're very proud of you. Thank you so much. Excellent, Excellent, excellent, excellent. 29 and 34, almost baby steps. Millionaires paid for house worth 350 to 400 now in the Memphis area. Very, very cool. Excellent, excellent work. All right, Ryan and Chelsea from Memphis, Tennessee, house and everything. 164 paid off in 12 months, making 300. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, one. We're debt free.

[Caller]

Sky's the limit for these two.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. And I'm trying to capture in my head there's something very cool about how they met. I didn't ask them about that. And the fact that they chose each other, other because the. That's like paramount to this. Both of them had common sense. Both of them had some understanding of how to build wealth and get debt free before they even met. And then they managed to meet. So there's, you know, all the jokes about getting married to the wrong person are not jokes.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

And so, you know, it's like, you know, I remember one years ago when we were on the air, we used to. People send in stuff. It's like, you know, a guy that marries a woman that likes to spend better, like to earn or something stupid like that. And I'm like, you know, that's just. No, what that is is a life of hell. That's what that is. And vice versa.

[Caller]

These are two thoroughbreds.

[Dave Ramsey]

If a lady marries a guy who's a freaking day trader, you know, I mean, oh, my God, that's just hell.

[Caller]

You can see how it can drag you down.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's the polar opposite of two intelligent, wise, emotionally, spiritually mature adults aiming at the same thing together. It's like nothing can stop a couple like that. And so what stops most people is each other. Not some little trick thing that you learn on Tic Tac. You know, it's that you married wrong. I mean, you know, are you almost married wrong? So I guess what's running through my head is just to preach and say, people, if you're single, single, it's worth it to slow down and. And, you know, marry a thoroughbred.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

If you're gonna. If you want. If you want to raise thoroughbreds, both of you need to be thoroughbreds. Hello.

[Caller]

You don't have to drag them to get them on board. Imagine just marrying them. Day one, you're both on board.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Caller]

It changes everything.

[Dave Ramsey]

Pretty incredible. They're neat. What a neat.

[Caller]

That's two thoroughbreds. They're pulling a lot of weight together because they're going in the same direction, and they.

[Dave Ramsey]

They drop that. The house just pop. Just drop. Dropped it, man. That's cool. Galatians 5:1 is our scripture of the day. It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Thomas Sowell said, people who refuse to face the reality of hard choices are forever coming up with some clever third way, often leading to worse disasters than any of the hard choices. That's the truth. Done that one myself, but not as much as I get older. Ty is in Canada High. Ty, how are you?

[George Camel]

You good. How are you?

[Dave Ramsey]

Better than I deserve. What's up?

[George Camel]

So, right now I am living in my mom's house at 22, and I have a baby on the way, but she's giving us a very nice option of $300 a month to rent here. And baby step two of your program just starting. And I'm wondering if I should continue to save for a mortgage or if I should just focus on baby step two, debt snowball. And then after that, work on a mortgage.

[Dave Ramsey]

What do you make, hon?

[George Camel]

I'm in the oil field, so it can be spotty, but last year I did about $110,000 after taxes.

[Dave Ramsey]

What's your fiance make?

[George Camel]

She's not working at the moment.

[Dave Ramsey]

When is she due?

[George Camel]

January 25th.

[Dave Ramsey]

And she's not working. Why?

[George Camel]

I'm not 100% sure. We thought that we would be able to do it on just my income, but I'm realizing from my crappy decision that might not work.

[Dave Ramsey]

It's okay. Your. Your debt is how much again?

[George Camel]

It's 75,000 total.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. And what kind of debt is it?

[George Camel]

There's credit cards, there's some I owe to a phone company, there's some I owe to the government, and then there's some to two trucks.

[Caller]

You haven't been an adult enough to take this dead on.

[Dave Ramsey]

So what do you owe on the trucks?

[George Camel]

One truck I owe 4,500, and the other one I owe 60,000.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. All right. Well, you. You've got a lot on you at 22 years old, sir.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Have you been paying rent? How long you've been living with your mom.

[George Camel]

For. Since January.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. I. I don't know if you're gonna do all of this or not, but. Because it's hard to give you a full life plan on one phone call, on a podcast or a radio show, but I'm going to try. Okay. So what would I do if I woke up suddenly in your shoes, knowing what I know after all these years of coaching people out of debt into wealth and coaching them through everything. The data says that, and there's several pieces of research that back this up, that the probability of you becoming financially and marital successful, successful in your marriage, successful in your relationships, is that you get married before the child is born. Okay.

[George Camel]

Correct. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's an old fashioned thing. Like a shotgun wedding, we would have called it back in the day. Like her daddy has a shotgun. Right. That kind of thing. So you probably heard that metaphor if you hadn't. You can go look it up now. But the. Yeah. So number one thing I would do is I get married immediately. And number two thing I would do is I start looking for the least expensive one bedroom apartment that is safe. I do not want anything fancy. I don't want anything that you're proud of even. And I don't want you to spend a bunch of money on furniture. You go the rich neighborhood and go to a garage sale and buy a $6,000 leather couch for $60 and put it in the back of your truck and haul it over to the one bedroom apartment and let's get started doing life together. Now we're a married couple with a baby on the way in an inexpensive home apartment that we're living in. Okay? So so far I've given you two instructions. You follow me?

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

The third one is sell the truck.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dave Ramsey]

Trucks out of control. It doesn't fit. Not. It's the most glaring thing in all of your facts. It stands out from all the other parts of your facts. All your other facts kind of make a little bit of sense. I kind of see how they are. And then there's like this truck. It like looks like pyrotechnics, like fireworks going off. When I saw that truck, it's like huge. It's by far the dumbest thing you've ever done in your life. So far.

[George Camel]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

So far. I realize, okay, and so that that's. And I've done dumber. But I mean, it's kind of what I do around here and George does, is we look at this stuff, we go, okay, how can we, this couple, become prosperous and be a good dad and a good mom, a good husband and a good wife and have a great life when eight years from today, when they're 30 and they look back and go, you know, that was a hard patch, but we got through it together and we had our first baby and we started life in that little one bedroom apartment driving a $5,000 truck because dad got rid of that $60,000 truck. And then the kids can tell this story to their grandkids sometimes. Day that the old man, Ty, he's the one turned it all around when mama. When grandma got pregnant with that first baby, they got it together and they started locking arms and they started working their tails off and living on less than they make and living on a budget and sacrificing to win. And they're the ones that made this family rich. And you're that guy.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dave Ramsey]

That's who I want you to be.

[George Camel]

One question I have is like, so I have two vehicles at the moment, but one of them is broke down, doesn't work, but I still have to make payments on it. And the other one, my newer one, is how I get to work. Do. What would you suggest I do for.

[Dave Ramsey]

Just get the cheapest possible car that'll get you to work.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Caller]

What's it cost to fix the other one?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I need a new engine, so about seven grand.

[Caller]

What could you sell the truck for.

[Dave Ramsey]

If it was fixed?

[George Camel]

Probably 15, 20 grand.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay, well, what we would do around here is we would buy a used engine from a salvage yard, a junkyard, a recycling yard, whatever you want to call them. From a truck just like the one that you had that's got totaled, but the engine is. It's got 25,000 miles on it. We pluck that engine out of there and drop it into that thing, it's going to cost you about three grand instead of seven. And I'd get three or four of my buddies and drop that engine in there one weekend, get that sucker sold.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I think we could do that.

[Dave Ramsey]

I think you can, too.

[Caller]

What's the $60,000 truck worth? The one you get that loan on?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, I just.

[George Camel]

I just got it, so I probably wouldn't get much for it if I sold it back. It was $65,000 price tag.

[Dave Ramsey]

Okay. So maybe you can get out of it even.

[Caller]

Yeah, even if you break even, I just want to make sure you weren't underwater by 20 grand or something.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah, you're not. Not yet. You will be if you keep it two more months and I think your.

[Caller]

Fiance is going to have to get to work and help clean this up.

[Dave Ramsey]

She had to do anything super strenuous. I don't want to put the baby in jeopardy or anything, but there's some things she can do for money and that are legal and moral, and I would go and do those right now. Okay. And instead of sitting and not doing anything, because anything we can throw at this situation, here's the thing. This time next year, dude, you could be married in an apartment and no.

[Caller]

Debt with an emergency fund, man, that's a wonderful place to be.

[Dave Ramsey]

One year, you're going to have a whole and be 23 years old and on your way. And then when I get to talk to you again in your 30, you're going to call me back and tell me you're a millionaire. Because I leaned in pretty hard on you that day on the radio. Because I want you guys to win for the sake of that baby. I want you guys to have a good life. And so it's time to move on from high school now, man. Time to buckle up, buttercup. Here we go. That's what we're going to do. And you can do this. You can do this. You're going to be the old man that turned everything around and changed your whole family truck tree. And they'll look back and talk about Grandpa someday. And they may make jokes about him, they do about me. But I'm the guy who turned the whole thing around, too. So shut up. It stopped with me. I'm the last one. I'm the last one. I declared that. And you can make that declaration and I can hear it in your voice. Then you can be the last one. You can decide you changed everything in your life. Yeah, same thing. You're like, that's it.

[Caller]

Change the family tree.

[Dave Ramsey]

Not doing this anymore.

[Caller]

Break the cycle.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. You got babies and dogs and wives and houses and, you know, complete manhood. You know, I mean, we're doing stuff. Yep. And that can be done. It's just a matter of choices. And you got some real serious choices, and you need to make them all fairly quickly here. Put an engine in that truck, get it sold. Get the $60,000 truck sold. Get a one bedroom affordable apartment. She can pick up a job of some kind, doing something until she's late stages and she's not there yet.

[Caller]

And six months from now, when that baby's in this world, it's going to be a different story.

[Dave Ramsey]

Yeah. In a year from today, way different story. Absolutely. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Caller]

What if you could watch the Ramsey show before anyone else?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, good news.

[Caller]

Now you can. For the first time ever. You can stream the show a day early in the Ramsey Network app. That's tomorrow's episode today. Real calls, real answers, real fast. It's free, it's easy, and the content might just change your life. So search Ramsey Network in Google Play or the App Store or click the link in the show notes. You never know what calls coming up next.