George Camel (5:29)

Busy week.

Dave Ramsey (5:30)

And you know what? 150 teenagers came in a while ago.

George Camel (5:35)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (5:36)

And I thought they were protest. Walking through the. They're not protesting. Not in here.

George Camel (5:43)

That was like a tick tock ban protester.

Dave Ramsey (5:45)

We wouldn't, we wouldn't do that. But no, I mean, I'm walking through the lunchroom down there and I hear this cheer come up. Like Rory McElroy walked up on the green or something. And it's George walking in to talk to the teenagers. And I think they thought the Beatles were here.

George Camel (6:00)

It really, it made me feel like a superhero. I was very kind. Cause they see my face every day in the classroom watching our foundations and personal finance curriculum. So the guy from the TV is in front of them now. So this is as close as they'll get to seeing a real celebrity.

Dave Ramsey (6:12)

Did they say that you're taller in person?

George Camel (6:14)

I forced them to say that. I said, do you guys think I'm taller in person? They said, yes, absolutely.

Dave Ramsey (6:20)

Absolutely. You're bulked up. You're bulked up now.

George Camel (6:22)

I sent some snark on them.

Dave Ramsey (6:23)

Yeah, well, no, teenagers would never have snark. Not those teenagers.

George Camel (6:28)

They're good kids.

Dave Ramsey (6:29)

But it was funny. I'm walking through the Dadgum Cafe, the Ramsey Cafe downstairs where our team all eats, and I hear this cheer go up. You got excited and I'm like, wow. What? Who's here? And I turn, I said, I. Ken Coleman. I was, I saw him, I said, ken, who's here?

George Camel (6:43)

And he said, george, it's a big deal, Dave. I know it's not to you. You're used to seeing me in person, but you catch me in a Costco. It's a riot out there. People are losing their minds.

Dave Ramsey (6:55)

They give up on the $50 hot dog. George is here. George is.

George Camel (6:59)

Oh, it's fun. It means we're helping kids change our lives. I asked them, I said, who's committing to living their life debt free? All the hands flew up in the air. So our work has meaning. The next generation is getting it.

Dave Ramsey (7:10)

Dave. Well, and you're the primary feature in the, in the curriculum. I'm in it a little bit. Rachel's in it.

George Camel (7:17)

Rachel's in there. Deloney's in there. But you got some Ken in there.

Dave Ramsey (7:21)

But you're the primary. Right.

George Camel (7:22)

I was hosting. So you see a lot of me.

Dave Ramsey (7:24)

Ah, okay.

George Camel (7:25)

Because I was all over it. Okay.

Dave Ramsey (7:27)

I just cut the different pieces. I knew that we put in the. And it used to be all me. God help the poor teenagers. And they like you. Well, they, they sort of did.

George Camel (7:35)

They don't love you, but they like you.

Dave Ramsey (7:37)

Oh, there we go. Okay. They love you. All right. That's it.

George Camel (7:40)

So it's a great curriculum, though a lot of people don't know that our curriculums are now at 48% of high schools in America.

Dave Ramsey (7:45)

Six million high school students have been through our high school curriculum.

George Camel (7:50)

So you think, man, they should teach this stuff in schools.

Dave Ramsey (7:52)

We're doing it.

George Camel (7:53)

We've been doing it.

Dave Ramsey (7:53)

And if your school's not, then you ought to have a little FOMO here and get your school going. And some of y'all ought to maybe sponsor it. I talked to a guy in Birmingham this week that on the air here yesterday that one of the teachers and one of the local home builders sponsored it for his, for his school. And his school is title one school. So it's almost 100% free lunch. So it's an area that's lower socioeconomic. And he goes, I can teach these kids how they never have to live like their parents have lived. They're going to become wealthy. They're not going to live in poverty. And this math teacher, and he was on fire. And the home builder paid for. The local home builder paid for it for all the kids to go through. And so they're teaching it at that high school because of him. So I love it. Well, we don't usually take a segment and give you updates on us, but there's a lot of us happening this week. And so we want to take a second and do that. By the way, we'll be. Dr. John DeLoney and I will be in Louisville, Kentucky, Monday, if you haven't gotten your tickets yet, and Atlanta Friday and Durham, North Carolina on Wednesday. And so that's the first three cities of our six city tour next week. So get ready for those as well. This is the Ramsey Show. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Dr. John Deloney (9:31)

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life Insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

Dave Ramsey (9:41)

That's a gut punch. And.

Dr. John Deloney (9:42)

Oh, you're telling me. And for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them.

Dave Ramsey (9:48)

Me too.

Dr. John Deloney (9:49)

They don't know what to do next.

Dave Ramsey (9:51)

Me too. I mean, you're gonna have a crisis here and you know, you got two options. While you're sitting and talking to a young widow, she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly the two options. And take care of your dadgum family.

Dr. John Deloney (10:07)

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses. So your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Dave Ramsey (10:14)

Yeah.

Dr. John Deloney (10:15)

To just miss you.

Dave Ramsey (10:15)

That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance, Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. George Camel, Ramsey personality is my co host today. Colin is in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi, Colin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Colin (11:03)

Hey, how are you?

Dave Ramsey (11:04)

Better than we deserve. What's up?

Colin (11:08)

My car, I was in shopping shopping mall and I was. I'm unstable off my, my bipolar. I was unstable off my bipolar disorder medication. I broke into my own car. My car was towed to the tow facility. The tow fac facility auctioned it off because I was in jail. When the police came, I got scared and I ran. Was in jail for about 83 days. And while I was in jail, the tow company sold the car for 21,000. It was worth 41,000. I shouldn't have bought the car begin with. They shouldn't have sold the car to begin with at Honda Acura and they ended up selling the car at the tow company in an auction and then got 20, about 21,000 for it. And there's a balance of 20,945. And then Honda Acura sold the debt to a creditor. That's just wondering if I should pay the creditor or just a rep session on the record. Ready. So I'm not sure what to do.

Dave Ramsey (12:02)

Wow. Okay. Well, I need to help you reframe your story. Okay. The tow company didn't do anything wrong.

Colin (12:10)

Yeah, they didn't.

Dave Ramsey (12:11)

They Sold a car that had been sitting on their lot for 83 days in order to cover the tow bill and the storage bill. And, and so Honda, you owed Honda 41,000?

Colin (12:24)

Yeah, I bought the car and I guess, I guess it's a matter if I say it's not. They, they. I was unstable when I bought the car. They said I was a truck driver or something like that when I was an Uber driver. To get the loan, I signed off at times unstable. Sold me the car for $41,000. Couldn't afford a 900amonth payment.

Dave Ramsey (12:46)

But I'm trying to get them. Hold on, hold on. I'm just trying to get the numbers straight, honey. So you have 41,000 owed on the car. The tow company sold it for 21,000. How did they give clear title to it if the loan hadn't been paid off? That's interesting.

Colin (13:04)

I'm not sure.

Dave Ramsey (13:05)

I don't know. I don't know how far the law works. I can't imagine that if the car didn't at least pay off the lien anyway. I don't know how they got title, but that's a different issue. So bottom line is, is that they put twenty something thousand dollars towards the debt and you still owe twenty something thousand dollars on a car that was, in a weird way, sort of repoed. Right?

Colin (13:28)

Yeah, they did this. They just sent me a letter saying I could settle for $8,300.

Ken Coleman (13:33)

There you go, There you go.

Dave Ramsey (13:35)

Do you have any money?

Colin (13:37)

I don't have any money till November. I have a settlement check coming in for $5,700 in November. I could probably settle with them and then. Okay, so I should, I should do that.

Dave Ramsey (13:45)

Yeah. You're going to have to clear the debt. It is a valid debt and typically a repo debt you can clear for somewhere around a quarter on the dollar. And so the $20,000 balance, should you probably clear it for around 5? 8 was their first offer. You could probably get them down to five, but you don't have five today, so you can't really make them a counteroffer today. What you could do is just ignore them and let them get a little bit more sweaty before you have to deal with them. That's not a bad thing. Eventually they're going to get around to suing you for that. Are you working?

Colin (14:22)

I. For the first time in my life, I'm not working now. I. Six months out of work. I went off my psychiatric drugs right before I sold my condo four years ago and I came in at $72,000 and went through four years of hell until I finally realized three weeks, I'm fresh out of the hospital two weeks ago.

Dave Ramsey (14:42)

So you're out of the hospital two weeks ago now?

Colin (14:46)

Pretty much, yeah.

George Camel (14:46)

Are you stable? Are you on, back on the meds?

Colin (14:50)

Yeah, I'm back on the meds now. I take lithium and one other drug, but I just, it's. I'm a little shaky right now. A little shaky, but I'm stable.

Dave Ramsey (15:02)

So.

Colin (15:02)

Working through things, but yeah, I, I, at 14 years old, I started a vending company, had that for 10 years, and then worked in pizza delivery for about another 10 years or so. So it's, it's been a rough ride. I, I believe I saw Jesus Christ in the hospital in Tampa. After I was going 45, 55 miles an hour, I fell asleep at the wheel. I prayed to God in Jesus name to stop my car in the middle of track. No, I prayed to help me. And I was going 45, 55 miles an hour in Sarasota. He stopped my car in the middle of traffic. I had cars in front of me, cars aside of me. He had a scratch my body nowhere, but I deployed and only 700 some dollars in Tampa hospital.

Dave Ramsey (15:47)

Colin, the, the, the first thing before we worry about healing your numbers, healing your math and your finances is for Colin to get healing. Okay. Yeah. And so whatever work you just did at the hospital and whatever work you've got to do to finish stabilizing your meds to get there, that keeps you, if you can get there and stay there, it keeps you from falling into the traps of buying things, of getting things, getting things stored, getting in jail. It keeps you out of all those traps because all those things set all your financial numbers back on. It makes it real tough. And so almost everything you're having to clean up is the result of you being sideways. Right. And so if we can, if we can get, if you can focus on Colin, focus on what your therapist is saying, get those drugs balanced. And getting them balanced is a trick. You know that. And getting them right to where you have enough energy to live, but you're also not completely freaking manic, which you sound a little bit right now like you are. But I want you to work on healing Colin. And then as you do that, you'll be able to get and hold a job of some kind to create an income. And then you can settle this repossession deficit for somewhere around 25 cents on the dollar. So $5,000 will clean this particular mess up. But you Will have seven other messes if Colin doesn't find healing. Yeah. And so man, we'll be praying for you, brother. Sounds like you've really been through it. And I want you to get, I want you to get stable and get, get straight, straight and narrow and for your sake and just find, find some peace and find some ground you can walk on this solid.

George Camel (17:41)

And another tactical piece of this is adding some stop gaps in there like freezing your credit with all the bureaus so that you can't open debt. Because right now it could just take one little slip up and you open a new line of credit, got another loan and like you found out these dealerships, these lenders, they don't care. They'll do whatever it takes to get you another. And so put some stopgaps in place to help protect yourself. That's scary.

Dave Ramsey (18:04)

Mike is in Connecticut. Hey Mike, how are you?

Mike (18:07)

Good.

Dave Ramsey (18:09)

How can we help, sir?

Colin (18:13)

So I have some rental properties that as I get, I guess as I get closer to retirement. I'm looking for some advice on how you would exit owning the rental properties other than selling and just paying the taxes.

Dave Ramsey (18:32)

That's pretty well it. If you want to exit. I mean you can do 1031 exchanges, but you would be trading these rental properties for other rental properties. Right. I guess that's not exiting.

Colin (18:49)

What do you think about a REIT exchanging into an reit?

Dave Ramsey (18:53)

You can't, it's not like kind has to be actively managed property and you're not actively managing a reit. A REIT is more of a mutual fund than it is a real estate investment.

George Camel (19:06)

So you'd have to sell it, then use the proceeds to invest into a reit.

Dave Ramsey (19:10)

But you're going, you're going to have the taxes on it. So 1031 tax deferred does not work to a REIT. Not in my opinion. I mean you have to get a professional tax advice if you want, but if somebody told you that on TikTok, I would be questioning it. I don't think that'll work because it has to be income producing to income producing. You can't trade your lake house for another lake house in a 1031 unless you rent it 181 days a year and call it a rental property over six months of the year. So you can't, you can't trade your personal residence in a 1031. It doesn't work. It's income producing property for income producing property. And so you've got to, you know, active, it's actively managed stuff and so that's what you're looking at. What you can do if you want to do 1031 is move from something that is like if you've got a bunch of houses and you want to move out of the residential drama of tenants, move to a boring tenant like a warehouse deal. Warehouse tenants are boring and a lot of those are triple net meaning they pay the taxes, the insurance and the maintenance and pay you rent and you don't do anything except collect a check. Then now that's that you can do a 1031 on for some houses. So you could look at doing some of that, but otherwise you're going to pay some capital gains. And depending on how long you've held them and how far you depreciated down your basis, your capital gains could be substantial.

George Camel (20:39)

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Dave Ramsey (21:31)

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George Camel (24:57)

Today's question comes from Allison in Minnesota. I agree with your advice not to get whole life insurance, but I have a question about it. With term life insurance, if you outlive the term, you lose all of the money you paid in premiums. With whole life you would still have some cash value. Is the difference between them worth the risk of getting nothing? Well, here's the thing. Term life is not an investment. So the idea that you got nothing, that's like saying, well, my house didn't burn down, so I guess I wasted all that money on homeowners insurance. It's not the point. It's to replace your income if something were to happen to you. And by the way, that whole life is going to be ten times the cost. And it's a giant rip off because it all goes to the whole life company. So there is a huge difference. And term will still come out ahead in every case.

Dave Ramsey (25:41)

Yeah. So the thing is, this term is 1/20, it's 20 times less expensive. And if you invest the other 95 cents on the dollar that you're not spending on whole life into your retirement, you're going to have millions of dollars. And that beats what you would have had had you put the same amount of money in whole life. So what you're comparing here is inaccurate. You're saying that term, I'm going to get nothing and whole life, I put in the same amount and I'll get something. No, you put in 20 times more. And if you had taken that difference term and invest the difference somewhere else and spent the same money you spent on the whole life, you would end up with a lot more whether you live or whether you die. And so that's the way to go. But life insurance, all insurance, is not an investment. No insurance, no insurance is an investment is a better way of saying it. George is exactly right. If your house burns down, doesn't burn down, and you never got money for your homeowner's insurance, did you get ripped off? No. You transferred the risk that you could not afford to buy a new home if your house burnt down without insurance, you transfer the risk. If someone dies with life insurance that they're depending on your income. And so if you're 32 years old, you got three little kids and no money and papa dies, Mama's got a mess, so you need to go to Zander Insurance and You need to get life insurance to transfer the risk because you can't afford to die. You can't afford to have your house burned down without homeowners insurance. And so you can't afford to die without life insurance to make sure your family is taken care of. So you're transferring the risk. It's not an investment. And so you've got all of this convoluted Allison, which tells me that you've been talking to and stop it. A whole life agent. Stop talking to them. Because this, you're the words you're using. And the way you're bringing this up is straight out of their little playbook. It's out of their little script on how they sell this crap.

George Camel (27:52)

And the old saying, if you don't argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down and beat you. With experience, that's most whole life agents.

Dave Ramsey (27:59)

Jade is in Sacramento. Hi, Jade. How are you?

Sasha (28:02)

Good. How are you?

Dave Ramsey (28:04)

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Sasha (28:06)

Yeah, so my husband and I actually took your guys's high school course and we are completely debt free. We do have a mortgage, but other than that, no credit card debt. And my question is, can we afford a substantial vacation? At what point can we spend money on a vacation?

Dave Ramsey (28:28)

Well, we tell folks, until you're through baby step three. Do you know what that is?

Sasha (28:34)

Let me see. I have my notes.

Dave Ramsey (28:37)

I'll tell you. It's okay.

George Camel (28:38)

Dave memorized it.

Dave Ramsey (28:44)

The baby step three is a fully funded emergency fund and you're out of debt. You should not go on vacation until you have have those done. If you've got your. In other words, if you've got your emergency fund, you're to baby step four, which means you should be putting 15% of your income away for retirement and you should be putting something for your kids college and putting a little extra on your mortgage. If in that budget you can pay cash for a vacation, a couch or an upgrade in a car or whatever other spending you want to do, that's the time you would do it. And it sounds like that might be where you are.

Sasha (29:17)

Yeah, we have. We have a good amount saved for emergency ED account.

Dave Ramsey (29:23)

And do you have 15% going into retirement?

Sasha (29:26)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (29:27)

Good. Okay. And what are we talking about spending on a vacation?

Sasha (29:34)

3 to 5,000. 5,000 would be generous. Around 3,000.

Dave Ramsey (29:39)

Okay. And what's your household income.

Sasha (29:43)

Right now? It's 82 gross, 60 net.

Dave Ramsey (29:47)

And you would pay cash for this vacation?

Sasha (29:51)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (29:52)

No more debt? No debt. No more debt ever.

Sasha (29:58)

Yes, sir.

Dave Ramsey (29:59)

Okay. All right. Yeah, that's what we. That's when we would tell you to do it.

George Camel (30:04)

Do you have the money today?

Sasha (30:07)

Yeah, it's in our savings.

George Camel (30:09)

Wonderful.

Dave Ramsey (30:09)

Wait a minute. Wait. Your savings? Is that your emergency fund?

Sasha (30:17)

So we have 27,000 in our saving emergency. So it's more than our what?

Dave Ramsey (30:24)

Our. You need to quit calling. You need to quit calling your savings. Okay. You need to take all of your savings and give it a name. How much of the 27,000 is the emergency fund? How much of it is the vacation fund? How much of it is the Christmas fund? How much of it is whatever. Okay. And so I'll just make up a number just to give you an example. I've got 27,000 in my savings account, but 20,000 of that is the emergency fund. We never touch that. I've got 4,000 of the 27 is my vacation fund, and 3,000 of my 27 is saving up for a better car or Christmas next winter or whatever. I don't care. But you should give your dollars a name, because if you just call it savings, then you can emotionally justify taking any of it out and get too far down into your emergency fund, which you don't want to do.

Mike (31:19)

Yeah.

Sasha (31:20)

Okay.

Dave Ramsey (31:21)

So you. You and your husband decide how much of this is your emergency fund. And I, actually, George and I, we generally would recommend you put your emergency fund portion in a separate account.

George Camel (31:30)

I like keeping them all separate so.

Dave Ramsey (31:31)

You don't touch it for anything. And then you could have a miscellaneous savings where we're saving up for different things and we itemize those. But I like having it separate, so I don't get all excited about the vacation and. Or the car purchase or whatever. And, you know, all of a sudden I'm down into that emergency fund, and then I have an emergency and, oh, my, now we got a mess again. So. But it sounds like you're ready to go, Jade. Enjoy your vacation, kiddo. This is the Ramsey Show. Let's be honest. Shopping for health insurance can be confusing with high costs, complicated terms, and customer service that doesn't really serve you. Most folks just pick a plan and hope for the best. See, insurance companies don't work for you. They work for themselves. Meaning they love it when you overpay. So you need a guide on your team to help you make the best choices. Health Trust Financial works for you. They're not salespeople. They help you find the health insurance option that makes sense and saves you money. The fact is, health insurance is one of the biggest expenses in your budget. But most people who work with Health Trust Financial end up saving $500 a month. Imagine putting that kind of money toward the baby steps. My team has worked with them for over 20 years and they've served thousands of people just like you. They're the only health insurance broker that's Ramsey trusted to help you. So stop throwing money away and get the health insurance that's right for you at Health Trust Financial. That's HealthTrustFinancial.com. thanks for being with us, America. We're so glad you are here. Connor is in Toronto, Ontario. Hey Connor, what's up? Hey, are you today better than I deserve? How can I help?

H (34:13)

Yeah, so I'm 25, married, I got a, I got a daughter and about $550,000 in debt, including a mortgage. Just kind of feels like I have your every dollar app. I've been trying to use it, but even then it just feels really overwhelming trying to see basically no light at the end of the tunnel.

Mike (34:34)

So.

H (34:35)

Right. So it's some guidance basically on how to work it out from here.

George Camel (34:42)

How much consumer debt do you have? Let's separate the mortgage out because that'll help take away this mountain of debt you're looking at.

H (34:48)

Sure, Yeah. I have $145,000 home equity line of credit, $14,000 personal line of credit on my wife's side that was transferred over from a student loan. Thousand dollar credit card and a $5,000 credit card. So 165,000 total.

Dave Ramsey (35:11)

What was the home equity line for?

H (35:14)

Consolidating other debt.

Dave Ramsey (35:16)

What was that debt?

H (35:19)

Two cars that we had and then some of it too was basically robbing Peter to pay Paul. Right. My wife went on here in Ontario, like you get 18 months of maternity leave. Right. So but when you are on 18 months, the subsidy, the subsidy that you get from the government is very low. Like it could be maybe $500 a month. Right. So I was using that to pay for our home expenses too, on top of that.

Dave Ramsey (35:51)

So she couldn't afford to go on 18 months worth of leave, but did it anyway.

H (35:57)

12 or 18 months, yeah, is what you get.

Dave Ramsey (35:59)

So no, you don't get it at full. You get it at 500 bucks a month and starve to death. So she couldn't. You guys could not afford for her to go out for 18 months, but she did anyway.

H (36:10)

Yeah, she was on maternity leave for.

George Camel (36:12)

That time and use debt to fund it essentially.

H (36:16)

Yeah. At the time I was working a commission job. Right. So I wasn't making a steady income at a time during that 18 months.

Dave Ramsey (36:24)

At the time, you couldn't afford for her to take that much time off and she did anyway.

H (36:29)

Yes.

Dave Ramsey (36:30)

Okay, I want you all to hear that because you can't, you can't go into these things and fall backward into them again. You can do that once, but you need to learn what the mistake was. And the mistake was you can't look up and go, well, I don't want to work. Yeah, that's not an option when you're broke. All right, so what do you make now?

H (36:53)

I make about 80 to 100,000.

Dave Ramsey (36:56)

What does she make now?

H (36:58)

About 65 ish.

Dave Ramsey (37:01)

So you make 165.

H (37:05)

Yeah, I will get raises for the next.

Dave Ramsey (37:09)

How long has she been back to work for?

H (37:13)

About six to eight months now.

Dave Ramsey (37:17)

Okay, because you should have easily been making it with both of you working and making progress. Making, I mean, good God, what does it take for you to live? I mean, you should be putting 5, 6, 8, $10,000 a month on these debts.

H (37:35)

Yeah, I mean our take home pay probably per month is about 8,000.

Dave Ramsey (37:42)

Oh yeah, you're in Canada. You guys get your butts taxed off. We whine about taxes in the US and you make us look like champions.

George Camel (37:49)

Are you guys investing too at all?

H (37:52)

Yeah, she has a, an investment account here we call it. It's a tax free savings account. Right. And you get to invest and you get to take out tax free, but you're capped at about 6,000 a year to put in.

Dave Ramsey (38:04)

Yeah, you need to stop investing temporarily and work what we call the baby steps. Have you ever heard of that?

H (38:11)

I have, just based on the podcast. Like I've thought about getting Financial Peace University. I didn't know if it translated over to Canada, but I'm sure the principals would too.

Dave Ramsey (38:20)

The principals? I'll send you a copy of the total money makeover book. And George, then he would work the baby steps.

George Camel (38:26)

Yeah. So baby step one is $1,000 starter emergency fund. Likely you guys have that. And then baby step two again, you're pausing investing. We're not borrowing another dime. You're going to pay off all of your debts from smallest to largest. Balance with the debt snowball method. So you make minimum payments on all the debts, but on that smallest one, attack it with a vengeance. Those much extra as you can at it and it gets knocked out real quick because it's the smallest one. Take that payment you freed up, apply it to the next and to the next until you're completely debt free. And if you do it that way, making 165 and maybe working even more. Maybe you get a side hustle. You guys can clean this up in two years.

Dave Ramsey (39:00)

No eating out, no vacations, no investing, no over taxation. Don't over withhold. Make sure you're withholding is the only what you have to pay in taxes. No more. You don't want to get tax refunds like we do in the U.S. it's a bad idea. And you guys got to live on beans and rice. Rice and beans. Because you have made a freaking mess at 25 years old with babies. And that's not unusual. You're not a horrible person. Most people live like you're living. But as you described when you opened the call, when I picked up the phone, it's no freaking fun. Normal sucks. I don't want to be normal. So you got to get mad and pay. And if you got any savings at all, that's not retirement savings, start throwing it at these debts tonight. Knock out that thousand dollars credit card, cut it up. Knock out that $5,000 credit card, cut it up, knock out that little $14,000 personal loan and be done with it. Man. That's only that, right? There is only 20 grand. You should be done with that. Just a few months and then that gets you down to the home equity line and the house. And then I want you to plow through that home equity line as fast as you possibly can. Or refinance the house and roll the home equity line into it. Either one. But no more borrowing. Ever. You need to have plastic surgery, chop up the credit cards. A plastic to me. You need to decide I'm not living like this anymore so that you can get clear of this. Because you've. You've spent more than you make your entire married life. And it's reached the end mathematically. You don't have that option to do that anymore. And it's stressful and it makes you feel shamed and it puts a strain on your relationship. And you guys as a couple, as two grownups have to live on less than you make, period. No exceptions. And by the way, Connor, that's all of us. We all of you people listening, all of you people watching, you have to live on less than you make. And I was the master at spending money and borrowing it and borrowing to cover up my disorganization, my impulsive spending, my entitled mentality. I had all of that in my 20s. And it's one of the things that led me to build a business that caused me to go bankrupt. And that, that's how I learned all this stuff was the hard way. So I've done it worse than you.

George Camel (41:30)

And one of the biggest traps out there is when you play this shell game, you start moving the debts around. Well, we can consolidate that. We can wrap it into the heloc. And you feel like you did something because action was taken, but you just moved the debts around and didn't clean any of it up. In fact, it probably is worse now because they're not separated, so you don't get to do the debt snowball with a giant HELOC sitting there. And so this is. This is the stupid tax that we talk about. And one day you look back and go, man, remember when we were young, we made all those decisions. Well, at 27, you guys are going to be completely debt free if you do it this way with the rest of your life.

Dave Ramsey (42:02)

Or sooner.

George Camel (42:03)

Yeah, you heard Dave. Get to work.

Dave Ramsey (42:05)

Yeah, I mean, I want you guys. Beans and rice, no freaking life. And I don't care if your broke friends are making fun of you. If your broke friends are making fun of your financial plan, that means you're right on track. It's like fat people making fun of your diet. You don't care. I don't. I don't care. I'm trying to stay alive. I'm trying to build a future here. And you don't have any credibility to make fun of me, so you don't get a vote in my life, you know? And when you reach that kind of stuff, that's when everything changes. And so you and your wife tonight need to have a come to Jesus meeting. And the two of us say, all right, we are not doing this anymore. Brand new life to children, having children. No more. We're two adults now, and we're gonna make adult decisions and we're gonna get after this. And adults devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good. And I gotta tell you, I don't care if you're 55 or you're 25, if you just do what feels good. I work so hard. I deserve it. You don't deserve nothing. Shut up, you whiner. You deserve it. When you saved up the money and paid for it because you worked your butt off, that's when you deserve it. Until then, you didn't deserve it. I work hard. Like, we all don't work hard. You want some cheese with that wine? Shut up.

George Camel (43:27)

Dave just served up a charcuterie board.

Mike (43:28)

Right?

Dave Ramsey (43:29)

I'm serious, man. That just. And we're. I deserve. You don't deserve it. You just, you deserve to get off your butt and straighten things up. That's what you deserve. That's it. I'm not yelling at you, Connor. I'm yelling at everybody. This is the Ramsay Show.

Dr. John Deloney (43:52)

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Dave Ramsey (45:12)

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, George Camel Ramsey, personality number one best selling author, co host A smart money happy hour with our own Rachel Cruz. He's my co host today. Open phones at Triple 882-55-5225. Jeff's in Kansas City. Hi Jeff, how are you?

Mike (45:44)

Great Dave, how are you?

Dave Ramsey (45:46)

Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help?

Mike (45:49)

Well, I'm 64 years old, have no retirement. I work a commission job. I've built a insurance agency, passive income to some degree. And my question is this, that I'm living paycheck to paycheck right now with no retirement. What do I need to do with my stocks which I have no control over, will start holding value. That value should come in, they're telling us when we go public somewhere at 15 to $30 a share with what I have after paying the 40% tax, I believe that is what it is. You're looking at about 600 on the low end to 1.5 on the high end that I will get when I cash those stocks in.

Dave Ramsey (46:38)

And when is this?

Mike (46:39)

What would I do, Mike? Dave, that's a problem. We were being told it could happen in a year, could happen in three years.

Dave Ramsey (46:49)

So the insurance agency that you're a part of is going to go public.

Mike (46:56)

The imo that we. That we are part of, I own my own agency with. Under the imo, the IMO is going to go public in one to three years. They're telling us.

Dave Ramsey (47:08)

Okay. And you don't have any control over any of that?

Mike (47:12)

No.

Dave Ramsey (47:13)

Okay. And why are you. After all these years of building a book of business, why are you still living paycheck to paycheck? That makes no sense.

Mike (47:23)

I had to re. Let go of 50% of my passive income due to health reasons, and I have an opportunity to build that back up, which I can. Or do I go out.

Dave Ramsey (47:38)

Why did you have to surrender your book of business for health reasons? Because you couldn't service it.

Mike (47:47)

And basically was out of the field for a while. Long story short, you have a spread with the agents underneath you. And largest leg was flanking me. And once you get flanked, then you have no override. That passive income basically goes away. When that happened, 50% of my passive income, I was making about 120,000. I'm making probably 70 to 80 now.

Dave Ramsey (48:14)

Okay. And you're not. That's the passive side. Are you. Are you actively working again? Are you able to work?

Sasha (48:19)

Yeah, yeah.

Mike (48:20)

I stay in the field to some degree just to keep my licenses in.

Dave Ramsey (48:25)

Why aren't you working like a maniac if you're broke?

Mike (48:28)

Well, I'm lazy. I mean, that's the question that my time keeps for Denning is do I put my time and energy because I needed to go back out? I've taken some time off, which shouldn't have, but based on getting myself where I needed to be emotionally, mentally, my question is, do I put it back into the agency and rebuild that I can? There's an upside to that. Or do I just go out and get a $20 to $30 remote phone gig that would.

Dave Ramsey (49:03)

Well, where do you make the most money? I assume you make the most money in your craft. You should make a lot more than $20 an hour if you start making sales calls again.

Mike (49:13)

Absolutely.

Dave Ramsey (49:14)

Or go make sales calls, dude. Yep.

Mike (49:17)

I. I'm doing that on a limited basis. The bigger piece to that is what I've let go of, Dave, is The building piece. So there's two pieces to our, our business model.

Dave Ramsey (49:28)

I understand produce.

Mike (49:30)

Right. Which I can do with my eyes shut.

Dave Ramsey (49:32)

Well, you need, yeah, but you need the money. You need the short term money until the thing goes public.

Mike (49:38)

Correct.

Dave Ramsey (49:38)

Okay. So go work your butt off till it goes public. When it goes public, you can quit.

Mike (49:43)

Well, possibly.

Dave Ramsey (49:45)

My question, if you get a 600 to 1.2, I think you can invest that at 67 years old and you'll be able to quit.

Mike (49:54)

Well, what is a good number? Do you know what that number is with life expectancy?

Dave Ramsey (49:59)

That if you can live off of, if you can live off of 8% and you invested at 12%, that's a good number. Okay, so if you got a million dollars, you'd be living off 80k. If you invest it in good mutual funds and it makes an average of 12, which the market has averaged 11.8 since it began. The last two years 23 and 26 or 20, 24 and 23, it averaged over 25%. Now that's not normal though. But in those two years, if you'd taken off 8, your portfolio would have grown substantially. Okay, so if you take off eight, as long as it's making more than eight, the thing will run perpetually and that's invested in good growth stock mutual funds. But I think you're sitting around whining about all this stuff in the rear view mirror and you don't feel like you want to go get it again and you don't really have a choice. You got to go get it. You got an IRS bill, you got all this stuff stacking up around you and it all reflects back on this time that you took off and it costs you half your book of business, cost you your overrides and yeah, now you got to go back and rebuild your short term income. All I want you to do is go make 100, 150 a year for the next three years while you're waiting on to put a little money in the bank. Put a little money while you're waiting on the other thing to your ship to come in. For God's sakes.

George Camel (51:25)

I wouldn't wait for this payout to get control of your money and get rid of this debt.

Dave Ramsey (51:29)

You can't live on 60K and pay off 70,000 to the IRS while you're waiting. And you don't know when it's coming, so you've got to go make some money and $20 an hour. So that's just a, that's a false offer. You're not going to go do that because that'd be dumb to go do that when you can go make 60 or 80 or 100 bucks an hour out there selling. So you're not going to go work at Target. Shut up. Don't even make that offer. You know, go do the thing you. That you don't want to do. Oh, well, it goes with the choices you've made. And so that's what you got to do, man. So, you know, I've been in those same exact situations, so I'm not fussing at you. I'm coaching you. I'm your coach at halftime, and we're behind. You need to go out there in the third quarter and catch us back up. And I'm saying, go hit somebody, dude. Roll up your sleeves and get it. Suck it up, buttercup. Here we go.

George Camel (52:19)

We've seen some incredible inspirational stories of people in their 60s who cleaned up a mess and still were able to retire with dignity.

Dave Ramsey (52:25)

Not why he's going to have a lot of money when the story ends.

George Camel (52:28)

There's a silver lining here.

Dave Ramsey (52:29)

But, but you got to. You got to get to that ipo. You got to get to that public offering, and that's when you get there. You're going to get 6 to 600 to 1.2, you said, out of your share of the stock at that point. And nothing bad is going to happen by you increasing the book of business and increasing your income in the meantime. Nothing bad happens except you're not going to get to sit on your butt. That's the only bad thing that happens.

George Camel (52:55)

I do appreciate the honesty of him just coming out and saying, I'm lazy.

Dave Ramsey (52:58)

I'm lazy. I don't want to do it. But, you know, you put yourself in a position where you don't have that option. When you owe the KGB money, I mean, the IRS money, you've got to go do stuff to get the wolf away from the door, because that wolf's got teeth, man. You don't want those people in your life.

George Camel (53:13)

They'll just go right into your bank account. They're not scared. They have the power to do whatever they want.

Dave Ramsey (53:18)

Yeah, it's pretty rowdy, so. And, yeah, they're scary people. They scare me.

George Camel (53:24)

In honor of tax Day, I'm not.

Dave Ramsey (53:26)

Afraid of many things, but on April 15th, I'm afraid of the IRS. And here's what's interesting. I heard this on I was on Fox Business this morning. The IRS has issued all these guns, and they've had more accidental discharges the gun going off accidentally than they have people them actually ever firing the guns at a bad guy.

George Camel (53:44)

Oh boy.

Dave Ramsey (53:45)

Well, it's an IRS agent with a gun. Come on.

George Camel (53:48)

That was a bad idea.

Dave Ramsey (53:49)

Not a highly trained individual. It's not Seal Team 6. This is the Ramsey show.

I (53:59)

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Dave Ramsey (54:56)

It's here. My brand new book, build a business you love is officially available to start reading now. Look, running a business is tough. Some days it feels like you're just duct taping the whole thing together. I get it. That's why I put 30 years of hard earned lessons into this book. To help you grow faster, make smarter decisions and stop learning everything the hard way. Don't wing it. Get your copy@ramseysolutions.com store and start reading today. This is it. The last day to file your taxes before you get penalties and interest. If you're due a refund, it's time to ask Uncle Sam to pay up. If you owe taxes, it's your last chance to avoid getting stuck with a new IRS pen pal. If you're worried you'll owe more than you could pay today, well, don't panic. The IRS offers payment plans, but you gotta file. Not filing is criminal. Not paying is not. And if you don't file because you can't pay today, that doesn't help a thing. So file on time. Even if you can't pay, there's no hidden fees. If you go with ramseysolutions.com smarttax, our trusted tax software. It's extremely accurate, it's very inexpensive, and it's quick so you can get your taxes filed by the deadline at midnight tonight. There are no hidden fees, no sneaky upcharges. You'll get everything you need to file your taxes with upfront, transparent pricing. Ramseysolutions.com smarttax we're gonna make it easy for you, boys and girls. Randy's in Greensboro, North Carolina. Hi, Randy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? This is more of a curiosity type question. I understand that real estate, the value of real estate goes up and the value of anything else goes down, but the question is, why is that? Why does real estate go up? Why does cars, why does mobile homes and all that stuff? Why does that go down? That's more or less the. It's more of a curiosity, more of a, you know, the underlying. What's the underlying reason for that? Well, there's no magic reason for it in general. It's supply and demand. There's a shortage of real estate all the time. You've heard the saying, they're not making any more land. And there's. Traditionally, in most of the last, say, hundred years or so in America, there's been more buyers of houses than there were houses. And so anytime there's a shortage on anything that is a commodity, it causes the value, causes the cost to go up. Even something as stupid as you remember a few years ago, Beanie Babies, people were going after. You remember Cabbage Patch Kids at Christmas or something like that, when there's a shortage on a toy or Xboxes, there's a temporary shortage, a created shortage, because they just don't make enough to make them uber popular. And so there's more people to buy them than there are items in any commodity. Whatever it is that there's a shortage of, the price goes up. That's the main reason. And cars, they make more of them every year. And so they spit off cars like, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands a day, right? And so, you know, you want the.

George Camel (58:36)

Latest and greatest, because now there's better technology. And so.

Dave Ramsey (58:39)

Yeah, that's the second reason is. It's exactly right, George. The technology on cars has changed way faster than the technology in homes. Now, homes are much more technically savvy than they were in the 1960s, for sure, but the actual studs that go in the wall are still two by fours. And the actual roofing, it still has false shingles on most people's houses, you know, and the actual siding is still the same brick, you know, and so there's not been a lot of change in the basic structure of a house. And cars have changed dramatically. So cars are more akin to computers than they are houses. They make eight bazillion of them new every year, and they're not. They're making computers faster than we make people. And so when you unbox a computer, it goes down in value because the next one's going to be a lot faster, a lot more technically savvy. And there's no shortage of them. No, I mean, everybody and his brother's got six of them. You know, I mean, it's like, is there a shortage of phones? Oh, my God. You can get a phone, you know, the smartphone, anywhere, anytime, same thing. And so they've gone up in cost, but mainly because their technology has gone way up. But a used one doesn't go up in cost, only the new one. Same as with a car. So cars and computers are more akin than cars and houses in this philosophical discussion we're having on appreciation of assets. And so that's what you're looking at. The other thing is houses can actually, if you rent them out, create an income. Cars, hypothetically, I guess you could rent them out, but they don't last long enough to be rental property, so to speak. And so you rent them out by Uber driving. But that's a temporary thing. And you're, you know, you run the wheels off the thing. So I think that's probably the best answer is the technology shift. In the short, it's mainly a commodity. Anytime you're dealing with a commodity, you're dealing with. The price is not controlled by the value that the thing creates. The price is controlled by the shortage or the scarcity or the overabundance, the glut in the market. And that's why things like gold. Gold doesn't create money. The only thing that drives gold prices is a shortage, you know, coming up with more or less gold, people chasing the gold. And so when there's fear or greed, gold goes up, which is happening right now.

George Camel (61:12)

I see the billboards now for gold.

Dave Ramsey (61:13)

Yeah. When everything's real calm and everybody thinks we're prosperous, gold goes way down. Now, the gold people don't talk about that, but it drops, like, way down. And so, but. But if it's. If everybody's afraid or everybody's greedy, they're going, oh, look at the price of gold. And they start hyp it up and call Dave Ramsey crazy because he says, don't put money in gold. But I don't have any. I can't judge the value of gold because there is no inherent value in gold. Gold doesn't have value. It's just a gold rock. Silver doesn't have value. Diamonds don't have value. Gemstones don't have value. It's just a rock. The only thing that gives it value is there's more people chasing it than there is supply people willing to pay for it. Yeah. And so the other thing that comes into my mind, and it's an interesting question. Thanks for letting. Letting us riff on that a little bit, Randy. The other thing that comes to mind is I remember going through appraisal class when I was getting my real estate license at 18 years old. One of the things they teach you to pass your real estate test, it's one of the questions back then was, what's the definition of market value? In other words, what drives price? Right. And the definition of market value of a house piece of real estate in general is what a willing buyer will pay to a willing seller where neither is under duress. And so if you're not, you know, if you're getting foreclosed on, you're under duress. So that's not a market value. When you buy a foreclosure, you don't establish market value. Okay. So it's a desperate situation because one of them's under duress. And if. If there's a shortage of housing and there's 83 offers coming in on the weekend, that's really not established. Like, you know, remember the post Covid stuff when people lost their dadgum minds on houses? Right. And. But that didn't establish real market value because there was duress on the part of the buyer. Because we're like, oh, I've got to up it. I've got to up it. It's like an auction.

George Camel (63:11)

It's like ebay. Someone keeps holding it up.

Dave Ramsey (63:13)

Holding your paddle up. Yeah, like in an auction. And you kept getting running the price up all weekend, and you're paying, you know, considerably more than asking price. You're getting a bidding war for a house that's. That's not market value because one of the parties is under duress. And so the definition of market value in real estate is what? And it really should be probably for anything is what would a willing buyer give a willing seller where there is no or neither party is under duress. And you know, I think about, like, I bought the Raptor R, okay, which is the one with the 700 horsepower monster engine in it.

George Camel (63:49)

That's a beast.

Dave Ramsey (63:50)

It's a beastie. And they. It's a. It's a serious upgrade on the Raptor package. And they didn't make many of them.

George Camel (63:58)

Scarcity.

Dave Ramsey (63:59)

And so the dealer price was X, but the dealers were selling them for X + $25,000 because of the demand for it. Because like just a handful of them being made and people. And more than a handful of people wanting them. So again, a shortage of the good drove the price up. And that's what, that's the. The car's not worth more because there's a shortage. Just the shortage drove the price up. That's all it is. And so you can do that with other cars. There's been other. I mean, the Corvette, when they come out with some of the specialty editions and different things, there's a very. There's not many of them. And so, you know, the car guys, gals run down there to get one. And as long as there's an abundance of the thing though, the price goes down and ultimately the price goes down on all of them that have wheels and motors. And so that's what we're looking at. That's a cool question, Randy. Interesting.

George Camel (64:58)

Really made you think there, Dave.

Dave Ramsey (64:59)

Yeah.

George Camel (65:00)

Stretch your brain a little bit.

Dave Ramsey (65:01)

Yeah, make me scratch the back of my skull. This is the Ramsey Show.

George Camel (65:27)

Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order?

I (65:34)

Yes, I have, George.

Dave Ramsey (65:36)

Sketchy.

I (65:36)

And never trust them.

George Camel (65:38)

And that's why we recommend Delete me. They help with that?

I (65:40)

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George Camel (65:48)

And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find.

I (66:01)

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George Camel (66:02)

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I (66:07)

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George Camel (66:20)

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I (66:31)

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George Camel (66:37)

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I (66:48)

Again, that's joins late me.com Ramsey. Make sure to check it out, you guys.

Dave Ramsey (66:54)

Listen, guys. I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money. So let's go ahead and settle this right now. You get the final say on what happens with your money. That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went. So if you're gonna start winning with money, you have to get on a budget. The easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the Every dollar budget app. It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month. And guess what? It's free. So no excuses. Download every dollar in the App Store or Google Play. Today we have a desk debt free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. You're welcome to come sit in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Watch us do this show Monday through Friday from 1 to 4 Central Time. There's free homemade cookies and coffee and there's usually 50 to a couple hundred people sitting out here at this moment. There's several hundred out here because on that debt free stage is a very special debt free scream. One of our own from Ramsey Solutions. Rick Prawl is here with his wife, Helen. Or Helene. Helene. Helene. Thank you. I knew that, but I wanted to make sure I got it right. So. Hey, welcome guys. Congratulations. I'm so proud of y'all.

J (68:23)

Hey, Dave. Hey, George.

George Camel (68:24)

Hey.

Dave Ramsey (68:25)

We can't ask you what your income is because all your co workers are standing around hashtag awkward.

J (68:30)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (68:30)

Yeah. But. But we will ask you everything else. How much debt have you paid off? $326,000. In nine years. In nine years. And I assume that means you people are weird and you paid off your house.

J (68:44)

We are weird. That's right. That's the house.

Dave Ramsey (68:47)

Congratulations. Well done. I'm so proud of you. Now, do you want to go further in this or you want me to leave it alone? Because you told me some stuff the other day in the hall, if I remember.

J (68:56)

I did. Actually, Our story started 29 years ago when a co worker introduced me to the money game on WTN. So I started listening 29 years ago this month.

Dave Ramsey (69:06)

Month. Wow.

J (69:07)

And Helene and I actually came to one of the Brentwood Hotel seminars where you were there with your overhead projector.

Dave Ramsey (69:14)

Wow.

J (69:16)

So it actually changed the trajectory of our life, which was very cool financially. But a lot of folks will say, then why did it take you 29 years to get here? Because we are the poster children for Davish. We knocked out the first two baby steps and then I thought I might have a better plan. And we tried to do 3, 4, and 5 all at the same time. And it was a train wreck. And it didn't work until then.

Dave Ramsey (69:38)

You came to work here 11 years ago and once you come to work here 11 years ago.

J (69:43)

That's right.

Dave Ramsey (69:43)

Then what happened? You keep doing ish.

J (69:45)

We got. No, we got serious. I was teaching fbu, trying to fill out the Baby step three emergency fund. So I was actually cleaning headlights on cars. I actually did George's car.

George Camel (69:55)

Oh, that's right.

J (69:56)

For about two years.

George Camel (69:57)

You did a great job on that summer.

J (69:59)

That's right.

George Camel (70:00)

That old Chevy Cobalt.

J (70:01)

That's right.

George Camel (70:02)

Made her look real brand new.

J (70:04)

And then we just, we got serious. And in addition to just a regular mortgage payment, anything they got extra profit sharing, any extra money that came in got funneled directly to extra principal payment.

Dave Ramsey (70:14)

So. Wow. So Rick is one of our product writers. He's been doing content here and helping with ad copy and other things and writing the product scripts and so forth for 11 years. Right?

J (70:26)

That's right. Working with all you guys on all the books that come out. So it's, it's.

George Camel (70:30)

I don't know what I would have done without you. Rick, on Breaking Free from Broke. You are a savant at what you do. We're grateful.

Dave Ramsey (70:35)

Some of his, some of his fingerprints are on this one that came out today. Building a. Build a business you love, you got. You got involved in that. Definitely helped us with that as well. So an incredible, incredible team member. Thank you. So we've enjoyed. She feels like you've been here longer than 11 years. I don't know.

J (70:52)

Sometimes it feels like it and sometimes it doesn't.

George Camel (70:54)

It's an eternity, Dave.

Dave Ramsey (70:56)

I don't mean that way. I mean, it's just. It's. It just feels like you've been with us.

George Camel (70:59)

You're part of this place.

Dave Ramsey (71:00)

You're part of this place. You're part of who we are.

J (71:02)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (71:03)

So we love you all. I'm so proud of you. How's it feel to have your house paid off? Amazing.

J (71:09)

It's. Yeah, it's. It's incredible. The first month. So we paid it off exactly nine years to the day. I was shooting for that seven year plan that we talk about. But then the market dip in 20 and 21 happened. And then we had to replace two vehicles in January of 23. And so then we had to rebuild the emergency fund. So it was, it was a challenge, but life happened. That's right. So February was a big deal. Celebrated 11 years here, paid off the house and became net worth millionaires all.

Dave Ramsey (71:38)

At the same time.

George Camel (71:39)

Wow.

Dave Ramsey (71:39)

Baby steps, millionaires.

J (71:40)

That's right. So we're.

Dave Ramsey (71:41)

That's what you were telling me at the elevator, but I wasn't going to bring that up unless you did.

J (71:45)

Yeah, that's right.

Dave Ramsey (71:46)

So good for you, man. So, so proud of you. Baby steps, millionaires. And content and product. Principal Product Writer is his technical title, but it's helping us with all kinds of content now for over a decade. And. Yeah, it's hard to write about this stuff and not go do it.

J (72:01)

Exactly. Yes. Yep. We've. We just finished another FPU class three weeks ago. I think I've taught 14, 15 now that we've been here. Wow.

George Camel (72:10)

And that's good accountability over the years to keep you on the plane.

J (72:13)

I've discovered. Yeah. And Helene has discovered that. That, that helps us stick to the budget. When I'm actually teaching the class, the months that we're not teaching the class, I tend to get a little sideways, a little lackadaisical. That's right.

Dave Ramsey (72:24)

Not Helene, but you.

J (72:25)

Yeah, no, Helene's the one that tries to get me back on there.

Dave Ramsey (72:28)

Right.

George Camel (72:28)

I love it. I got to ask, Rick, I know your personal life and your heart for generosity and missions. Was that a why in this? Were there other whys as to why you guys did this?

J (72:39)

I think for us was just the idea of, as we've talked about here, just not owing anybody anything and that, that, you know, the money that I'm earning now is, is all ours. So we took that first month's paycheck, paid off the balance of a cruise that we're doing in July. So we're, we're trying to. To use that. But yes, the international mission trip is a big part of that, so I love it.

George Camel (73:02)

You're in your live like no one else era now.

J (73:04)

Exactly.

Dave Ramsey (73:04)

And he taught FPU in Greece on our international mission. Oh, wow.

J (73:10)

We had several team members here join us a couple years ago on a trip to Athens, and we actually got to teach financial principles to Ukrainian refugees and Syrian refugees.

Dave Ramsey (73:20)

Wow. Yeah. Very cool. So you're a good man. Well, thanks, man. We're honored to have you on the team. And I'm so proud that this stuff has worked to change your complete Family tree. Baby steps, millionaires. House and everything paid for. And you brought the grandkids.

J (73:34)

Helene watches three of the grandkids every day. And the two girls have been practicing with us, so they are ready to go.

Dave Ramsey (73:41)

All right, well, let's get them up here. I want to hear some grandkid. This is a family tree that's been changed in so many ways.

George Camel (73:47)

Oh, they're so.

Dave Ramsey (73:48)

They are.

George Camel (73:49)

You gotta be watching on YouTube or Spotify video right now. It is too precious.

Dave Ramsey (73:53)

Cute. Are you?

George Camel (73:55)

So what are the names and ages?

J (73:57)

This is Malin, she's four. And this is Elliston, she's three. All right, we've got Lincoln, who's one over here. So, yeah.

Dave Ramsey (74:03)

Okay, so Lincoln's gonna stay off to the side.

J (74:05)

That's gonna work.

Dave Ramsey (74:06)

Good stuff.

George Camel (74:07)

Just the innocent bystander.

Dave Ramsey (74:09)

And both of our children are debt. Well, they have mortgage, but other than that, they're debt free. So they're working. You have changed your family tree. Yep.

J (74:16)

Yeah, that was, I don't know if you remember, 11 years ago when I started Dave. I started in January, in February, and both of my kids got married later that year, six months later. And so we started off with two kids getting married and going through FPU that first year.

George Camel (74:33)

Sounds expensive.

J (74:34)

Yeah.

Dave Ramsey (74:35)

No.

J (74:36)

Since I had not had a job before that, my daughter's budget was $5,000, so she did great.

George Camel (74:41)

That's incredible.

Dave Ramsey (74:43)

Love it.

J (74:43)

That's right.

Dave Ramsey (74:44)

Well, congratulations, y'all. We love you. We're so proud of you. And the Ramsey team is out here gathered around because they love you as well and proud of you, too. So you set a good. A pretty high bar for the rest of the.

George Camel (74:56)

Oh, yeah. We love seeing our team members hit baby step seven.

Dave Ramsey (74:59)

We celebrate seeing our team members be millionaires. That's pretty stinking cool right there, man.

J (75:03)

Right?

Dave Ramsey (75:04)

That's awesome. So cool stuff. All right, Rick and Elaine from Lebanon, Tennessee. Ramsey team member for 11 years. House and everything paid off. $326,000 in the last nine years. And that makes them baby steps millionaires, among other things. Great job, you guys. Count it down, girls. Are you ready?

J (75:24)

Three, two, three.

Dave Ramsey (75:26)

We're debt free. That's how it's done.

George Camel (75:36)

I love it.

Dave Ramsey (75:37)

We don't get many cuteness in the grandkids.

George Camel (75:40)

Oh, yeah.

Dave Ramsey (75:41)

That's a new. That's good.

George Camel (75:42)

I like this Might have been a first for me.

Dave Ramsey (75:43)

Yeah, bring.

George Camel (75:44)

See the grandkids in.

Dave Ramsey (75:45)

Bring cute grandkids. That's good. I like that. And. Yeah, that's great, man. How fun.

George Camel (75:50)

I Like seeing good people win.

Dave Ramsey (75:52)

Well, and I gotta tell you, as the owner of this place, to have people on our team being able to become wealthy while they work here doing the stuff that we teach, it makes me weepy, man.

George Camel (76:06)

I mean, believing in the mission. Still teaching FPU 14, 15 times over now.

Dave Ramsey (76:10)

I mean, this guy, he's hardcore. That's rare.

George Camel (76:13)

That's rare. Era we're breathing over here.

Dave Ramsey (76:14)

Yeah. When he writes something, we don't have to worry about what was written. We know exactly what was written because it's right online with all the things you teach, I teach. And the personalities are just the mouthpieces of it out here. And it's guys like that that make this play team behind the scenes. Yeah. Very, very cool stuff. Good job you guys. Your heroes, man. We're so proud of you. Proud to have you here, proud to have you on the stage and proud to look at those cute kids. They're really cute.

George Camel (76:41)

I know. I mean, Rick's a good looking guy.

Dave Ramsey (76:43)

But goodness gracious, there's no explanation in him looking at them. None whatsoever. I love it. That's fun. Fun guys. Ha. This is the Ramsay Show. Real change in your money and relationships is possible. You can break the cycles that have kept you from moving forward. You can build a better future for yourself. And it starts here. Hang out with Dr. John DeLoney and I live in a city near you. For the Money and Relationships tour. Starting next week we'll be in Louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth and Kansas City. Time is running out so grab your tickets while you can@ramseysolutions.com tour.

George Camel (78:17)

Foreign.

Dave Ramsey (78:31)

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Your host, George Camel Ramsey, personality number one best selling author is my co host. Today Troy is in Tampa, Florida. Hey Troy, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Ken Coleman (78:43)

Hey, good afternoon, Dave. Hey George. Quick question about retirement. 56 years old, currently working baby step two. Only have about 70, 80,000 in our retirement fund and wondering if we should at least contribute up to the employee match before we get to the end of baby steps, which is baby step two, which will be in about two and a half years.

Dave Ramsey (79:12)

What do you owe on your consumer debt? That's going to take two and a half years.

Ken Coleman (79:17)

About 70,000.

Dave Ramsey (79:19)

On what?

Ken Coleman (79:22)

Personal loans stemming from? We had some repairs from Hurricane Ian that insurance didn't cover. We just had those put in place. I have a student loan that we're wrapping up and a car payment.

Dave Ramsey (79:42)

What's your car worth?

Ken Coleman (79:45)

About 18,000.

Dave Ramsey (79:49)

Okay, and what do you owe on it? 18,000 and so you have again, how much in total debt?

Ken Coleman (79:58)

About 70,000.

Dave Ramsey (79:59)

Okay.

Ken Coleman (79:59)

We've already paid off about 12,000.

Dave Ramsey (80:01)

Good. And what's your household income?

Ken Coleman (80:04)

110.

Dave Ramsey (80:05)

Okay. All right. And you said you're how old? One more time.

Ken Coleman (80:11)

56.

Dave Ramsey (80:12)

Okay. You don't need to panic. You just need to do this. And it shouldn't take you two and a half years. If it's going to take you two and a half years, you need to sell the car. I would pick up extra income somewhere and I would look at what I can sell and get this cleared off. And I'm going to live on nothing. Beans and rice, rice and beans. No eating out, no vacations, no nothing. You've got to get busy because you've got to clear this so that you can lean in hard on the 15%. Because if you start at 58 and you go to 68 with 15% of your income, you're going to be okay.

Ken Coleman (80:49)

Okay.

Dave Ramsey (80:50)

And in the meantime, get your house paid off too, during that same decade. So you go into your early 70s still investing, and with a paid for house, your math is going to be fine. You're not going to be eating dog food. I mean, you're going to be, you're not going to be a multimillionaire. But you can make it with this. And the fastest way mathematically to make it is to not screw around with this debt is to pour everything on it, not change the baby steps. It gets you there faster. And the power of focus and the little bit of fear or desperation that makes you say, I want to change the steps. I would use that as my motivation to even sacrifice deeper and work more.

Ken Coleman (81:32)

Okay.

Dave Ramsey (81:33)

Yeah, let's just understand. Yeah, let's just clear this stuff. And if you're going to keep the car, you're going to work like a maniac because you need to be done in about 18 months here.

George Camel (81:44)

Do you guys have anything in savings?

Ken Coleman (81:48)

Just emergency fund. And how much? We have a thousand dollars for that. And then I escrow my own homeowners insurance and taxes.

Dave Ramsey (82:01)

Yeah, you got to pay that.

Ken Coleman (82:02)

So that's all. Yeah, it's labeled, it's, it's set aside. So yeah, I think we're budgeting right, we're doing the right things. You know, it's just that little fear factor, you know, do I want to, I don't want to leave any money on the table, but yet again, I want to get rid of this debt.

Dave Ramsey (82:17)

Yeah, that's a, it's a fair question. And, and, and I don't hear in the way you're asking the question. Any dysfunction. I think it's just an intellectual exercise. And said, okay, I, I'm on, I'm game on. What's the best way to play the game at this way and that. That's a fair question, but I still think the best way to play is just straight through. What do you think?

George Camel (82:37)

Well, part of what got us here, Troy, is doing too many things at once and not really focusing on anything. And my worry is you keep doing that for the next five to 10 years instead of just getting aggressive like Dave mentioned. And I crunched the numbers for you here with our investment calculator. If you waited until 58 and you started dumping that 15% of that $110,000 income, you'd have a million bucks. But you're gonna have to work into your early 70s.

Dave Ramsey (82:58)

That's no match and no raises.

George Camel (82:59)

That's nothing. No match, no raise. You just keep that.

Dave Ramsey (83:02)

So you did make a million dollars.

George Camel (83:03)

And so you will have a million, but you'll have to work.

Dave Ramsey (83:05)

I was wrong. I said you weren't going to make it.

George Camel (83:07)

He'll have to work till 73, which is not ideal, but, but for a late start to still have a million bucks, that's a pretty good life.

Dave Ramsey (83:12)

Oh, you said 73. I said 68.

George Camel (83:15)

That's where I said, yeah, he's gonna have to work a little longer to hit that. That's not like a magic number that allows you to retire or not, but just a good ballpark to go.

Dave Ramsey (83:22)

Well, the thing is with match and with raises, he might get there by 68. I might be wrong. Yeah, I didn't think of that.

George Camel (83:29)

And get the house paid off and start dumping even more on there. It's definitely possible, but, but the goal.

Dave Ramsey (83:34)

Is to be, you know, have a good sized nest egg, no debt, including the house. And that's your, that's, that's when you can afford to look and quit looking over your shoulder, you know, and the fastest way to get there is to work the baby steps. But baby step two, man, it's just unbelievable intensity, unbelievable sacrifice. And truthfully, that getting completely strange and weird is a lot easier at 26 than it is at 56. I mean, it's just it. I'm 64. If I, if I had to do that right this second, it would be very, very unpleasant.

George Camel (84:09)

If they was out here delivering pizzas.

Dave Ramsey (84:11)

They'D be a very unpleasant.

George Camel (84:13)

I don't want him showing up my door.

Dave Ramsey (84:15)

It's all I'm saying, hey, hey, hey. Yes.

George Camel (84:17)

That would be great. I would actually love that. We should do that like an undercover.

Dave Ramsey (84:21)

Because you're a good tipper.

George Camel (84:22)

That's true. I would tip. If I saw Dave at my door. You better believe I'd be tipping well, I'd give him a copy of Total Money Makeover as well.

Dave Ramsey (84:30)

If I show up as your Uber driver with some strange sunglasses, can we.

George Camel (84:33)

Do that as a. Can we do that, Dave, as a gag? Like an undercover boss situation? Undercover baby step tour.

Dave Ramsey (84:39)

I want to get one of those visor hats that has hair sticking out of it. You know those hats? That would be a great undercover boss. Oh, man. That's my. That's my disguise. My alter ego, Bubba.

George Camel (84:50)

If I see Dave with hair, Bubba.

Dave Ramsey (84:51)

Ramsey is going to show up here.

George Camel (84:53)

That ain't Dave. That might be his brother. Oh, my goodness.

Dave Ramsey (84:58)

Heavy. He's my brother. All right. Anyway, Sasha's in Manchester, New Hampshire. Save us from ourselves. Yes. How can we help?

Sasha (85:07)

How are you doing today, Dave?

Dave Ramsey (85:09)

Better than I deserve. How are you?

Sasha (85:11)

That's what I was waiting for. I'm a big fan of the show, and I need your help.

Dave Ramsey (85:15)

Okay.

Sasha (85:17)

I watch you every day. I've been doing it for, like two or three months.

Dave Ramsey (85:20)

Thank you.

Sasha (85:21)

So here's the deal. Oh, yeah. You're very welcome. I actually am trying to go by your seven baby steps, and I have a little bit of a unique situation. I'm. I'm a 43 year old woman out of Manchester, New Hampshire, who lost her husband January 1, 2024.

Dave Ramsey (85:42)

I'm sorry, I'm a widow.

Sasha (85:44)

Thank you. And I'm trying to figure out the seven baby steps. And my problem is my husband took out three different credit cards. One for Credit one, one's for Capital one, and one's for Chiba, which is Bell's Discount Furniture.

Dave Ramsey (86:01)

Did they have your name on them?

Sasha (86:05)

Yeah, they all do. Both our names are on them. He was trying to increase my credit so I could get.

Dave Ramsey (86:13)

Before I run out of time, ask me your question right quick.

Sasha (86:17)

Yeah. I have $2,914.09 in debt between all three credit cards, and two of them I know are in collections and written off. Do I still have to pay them?

Dave Ramsey (86:29)

Yes, they have to be paid. Or if they're written off, you can settle with them for. Offer them a lower amount. If you do that, two things. Get it in writing before you give them any money, and do not give them electronic access to your checking account. So you cut them up, you send them a money order, you Send them a wire, you give them a prepaid debit card, something like that, and you get it in writing. And so let's say one of them is fifteen hundred dollars, and you have. It's in. It's been written off. Then. Then you got to do that. So, you know, the. You know, you settle it. You got to get that done. And so you settle it for pennies on the dollar. If it's 1500 bucks, you need to, you know, offer them 500 bucks. Settlement in full. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah, so anyway, get it in writing. No electronic access to your checking account under any circumstances. Thank you for calling Darwin. I hope that helps you.

George Camel (88:16)

Hey, what are you still doing here? You know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app, right? So you got to jump over there to continue watching. You can download it for free. Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey Network. It's completely free, and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. So if you're watching on the app, you're in luck. But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you. So jump onto the app and let the fun continue. All right, Go on now. Don't make it weird. Okay, I got nowhere to go, so you need to go. Okay, bye. Bye now. All right, this is getting weird over there, guys. What do we do?