It’s Time To Cut Debt out of Your Life!

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "It’s Time To Cut Debt out of Your Life!"

Release Date: March 14, 2025
Host: Ramsey Network
Guests: Ken Coleman, George Camel, Dr. John Deloney, and various callers

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Introduction and Show Setup (00:00 – 01:35)
Ken Coleman kicks off the episode alongside George Camel, setting a lively tone for the show. They introduce themselves and highlight the focus areas: budgeting, saving, debt elimination, investing, and increasing income. The studio audience's enthusiasm is palpable, setting the stage for an engaging session.

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Caller Spotlight: Christina from San Bernardino (01:50 – 06:12)
Issue: Christina and her husband are on Baby Step Two, having paid off $39,000 since November but still facing significant debts, including $126,000 in student loans and a car loan. Concerned about retiring late, Christina fears they won't catch up despite a combined gross income of $200,000.

Discussion: George Camel reassures Christina, explaining that by following the Ramsey Plan with “gazelle intensity,” they could be debt-free in 18 to 24 months. He outlines a strategy where, after eliminating debt, they can invest $30,000 annually, potentially growing their retirement accounts to approximately $3.3 million by age 62.

Notable Quote:
George Camel (03:07): "That's $2,500 a month household going into retirement accounts. We're going to assume a 10% return."

Christina's confidence is boosted as she realizes her financial goals are attainable. Ken encourages maintaining this momentum, emphasizing that once debt-free, they can enjoy financial freedom without the burden of past debts.

Conclusion:
Christina and her husband are encouraged to stay committed, with George affirming, "At this speed and intensity, you guys are going to be multimillionaires and retire with dignity."

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Caller Spotlight: Kyle from Kansas City, Missouri (10:40 – 14:20)
Issue: Kyle has a single credit card with no balance and is considering cutting it up but fears repercussions from the lender, such as aggressive tactics or needing to refinance in the future.

Discussion: Ken Coleman humorously reassures Kyle that cutting up the credit card won't trigger a SWAT team response. Instead, George advises that with no balance, Kyle won't need the card, and his mortgage will maintain a healthy credit score, ensuring no issues with future refinancing.

Notable Quote:
George Camel (13:22): "They're going to be fine. You don't need them anymore."

Conclusion:
Kyle is encouraged to proceed with cutting up the credit card, emphasizing the freedom that comes from eliminating unnecessary debt instruments.

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Caller Spotlight: Ella from Orlando, Florida (15:43 – 19:31)
Issue: Ella received a promotion with a significant pay raise and is contemplating whether to counteroffer, considering her impending engineering degree.

Discussion: George suggests that without the engineering degree, countering for $90,000 may not be viable. He advises Ella to inquire about the path to reaching the higher salary post-degree, framing it as a thoughtful conversation rather than a straightforward counteroffer. Ken supports this approach, highlighting the importance of a strategic and non-confrontational negotiation.

Notable Quote:
George Camel (17:41): "If this is part of your beliefs and this is something you feel really strongly about, you're just going to have to pay that expense ratio."

Conclusion:
Ella is guided to seek clarity on salary progression linked to her degree, ensuring she positions herself effectively for future earnings without jeopardizing her current offer.

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Caller Spotlight: Jeff from Atlanta, Georgia (22:33 – 20:35)
Issue: Jeff cannot invest in the S&P 500 due to religious reasons and is considering creating his own diversified portfolio, but is concerned about high expense ratios of Sharia-compliant ETFs.

Discussion: George Camel acknowledges Jeff’s commitment to his beliefs but points out the complexities and higher costs associated with creating a personalized, diversified portfolio. He emphasizes sticking to tax-advantaged retirement accounts and suggests that the benefits of these accounts outweigh the desire to avoid higher expense ratios, advising Jeff to explore Halal-compliant funds despite their costs.

Notable Quote:
George Camel (26:47): "There's going to have to be a compromise here. If this is part of your beliefs and this is something you feel really strongly about, you're just going to have to pay that expense ratio for the pleasure of following your values."

Conclusion:
Jeff is encouraged to balance his religious principles with financial prudence, opting to utilize available retirement accounts while accommodating his investment preferences as much as possible.

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Caller Spotlight: Jennifer from Buffalo (37:24 – 42:09)
Issue: Jennifer and her husband have $60,000 in credit card debt and are contemplating using a home equity loan to consolidate the debt. They are cautious about borrowing more.

Discussion: George vehemently advises against using a home equity loan to pay off credit card debt, cautioning against the “shell game” of debt cycling. Instead, he urges Jennifer to harness her anger towards high-interest rates to aggressively pay off the debt, suggesting they allocate as much as possible from their $16,000 monthly income towards the $60,000 debt.

Notable Quote:
George Camel (37:58): "It's crazy that I'm going to use debt to pay off other debt to go into a different kind of debt and hopefully pay that debt off."
Ken Coleman (41:50): "Don't do it. Don't do it."

Conclusion:
Jennifer and her husband are encouraged to adopt an aggressive debt repayment strategy without incurring additional loans, focusing their financial resources on eliminating existing credit card debt swiftly.

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Caller Spotlight: Chris from Erie, Pennsylvania (55:20 – 56:34)
Issue: Chris is contributing to a Roth IRA and a 401(k) and seeks clarification on the differences between pre-tax and after-tax contributions.

Discussion: George Camel provides a clear breakdown of traditional (pre-tax) and Roth (after-tax) retirement accounts. He explains the tax implications and benefits of each, advocating for Roth accounts due to the potential for tax-free growth and withdrawals. Ken emphasizes the importance of making informed investment decisions aligned with personal financial goals.

Notable Quote:
George Camel (58:34): "Another way to say that is tax deferred."

Conclusion:
Chris is encouraged to understand the tax benefits of both account types and consider favoring Roth accounts for their long-term advantages, particularly if tax rates are expected to rise.

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Caller Spotlight: Kristen from Erie, Pennsylvania (59:49 – 69:23)
Issue: Kristen and her husband have a net worth of approximately $1.25 million, including paid-off homes and vehicles, and are seeking advice on maintaining and growing their wealth.

Discussion: Kenneth and George delve into Kristen’s financial journey, highlighting the importance of mindset, discipline, and the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) principle. Kristen shares her experience adopting the Ramsey Plan, emphasizing consistent saving and debt elimination, even during challenging times like her husband's health issues.

Notable Quote:
Kristen Deloney (66:23): "You have no excuse."

Conclusion:
Kristen’s success story serves as an inspiration, illustrating how dedication to financial principles can lead to substantial wealth accumulation despite moderate incomes and unforeseen life events.

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Caller Spotlight: Robert from Auburn (70:29 – 75:56)
Issue: Robert faces a repossession after being 94 days behind on his car loan payments and seeks advice on regaining his vehicle and managing his debt.

Discussion: George advises Robert to act swiftly to reinstate his loan by paying the past due amount and any fees, emphasizing the urgency to prevent the car from being sold at auction. He explores options like selling personal items and increasing income through side gigs to meet the required $2,500 in ten days. Ken underscores the importance of evaluating expenses and identifying overspending to prevent future delinquencies.

Notable Quote:
George Camel (78:40): "Aggressively. I'm gonna use that four months to get aggressive, to build yourself a financial foundation."

Conclusion:
Robert is guided to prioritize debt repayment, cut unnecessary expenses, and increase income sources to handle immediate financial crises, emphasizing proactive measures to reclaim his vehicle and stabilize his finances.

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Caller Spotlight: Alexander from Colorado Springs (75:48 – 78:34)
Issue: Alexander, a fourth-year medical student, with $250,000 in student debt, is deciding between working for his father’s insurance business or returning to pest control sales to eliminate his debt.

Discussion: George recommends option B, returning to pest control sales, based on the higher immediate earnings potential and faster debt repayment. He emphasizes the importance of aggressively tackling debt to achieve financial freedom before committing to additional responsibilities or investments.

Notable Quote:
George Camel (78:40): "You got to change your whole intensity right now."

Conclusion:
Alexander is encouraged to choose the pest control sales opportunity to expedite debt elimination, ensuring a solid financial foundation before making long-term career or investment decisions.

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Key Insights and Takeaways:

1. Debt Elimination:

   • Prioritize paying off high-interest debts swiftly to free up financial resources and reduce stress.
   • Avoid consolidating debt through additional loans, such as home equity loans, to prevent a cycle of debt.

2. Investment Strategies:

   • Utilize tax-advantaged accounts like Roth IRAs for tax-free growth and withdrawals.
   • Balance personal values with financial prudence, especially when considering investment options aligned with religious beliefs.

3. Financial Mindset:

   • Cultivate a disciplined and proactive approach to budgeting and saving.
   • Maintain a “run your own race” mentality, focusing on personal financial goals rather than societal pressures.

4. Emergency Planning:

   • Establish sinking funds for annual or semi-annual expenses to avoid budget shocks.
   • Utilize strategies like setting aside monthly contributions to handle irregular financial obligations seamlessly.

5. Career and Income Growth:

   • Make strategic career choices that align with financial goals, even if they require temporary sacrifices.
   • Leverage high-income opportunities to accelerate debt repayment and build wealth.

Notable Quotes:

• George Camel (03:07): "That's $2,500 a month household going into retirement accounts. We're going to assume a 10% return."
• George Camel (13:22): "They're going to be fine. You don't need them anymore."
• George Camel (26:47): "There's going to have to be a compromise here. If this is part of your beliefs and this is something you feel really strongly about, you're just going to have to pay that expense ratio for the pleasure of following your values."
• George Camel (37:58): "It's crazy that I'm going to use debt to pay off other debt to go into a different kind of debt and hopefully pay that debt off."
• Kristen Deloney (66:23): "You have no excuse."

Conclusion:
This episode of The Ramsey Show emphasizes the critical importance of disciplined debt elimination, strategic investing, and maintaining a resilient financial mindset. Through real-life caller interactions, Ken Coleman and George Camel provide actionable advice tailored to diverse financial situations, reinforcing the show's core belief that anyone can achieve financial freedom with the right plan and commitment.

Transcript

[Dave Ramsey]

Hey, guys. Dave Ramsey here. Me and Dr. John Deloney are coming to a city near you on the money and relationships tour. It's happening soon, so don't wait. Get your [e-mail] tour.

[Ken Coleman]

This is the Ramsey show where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their work, and their relationships. The phone number to jump in is 888-255-2225. Alongside the incomparable, the always Natalie attired George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman, and it's gonna be a fun show today. And I can tell you, the audience out in the studio, I can just tell these people got the juice.

[George Camel]

George.

[Ken Coleman]

They're excited.

[George Camel]

I met some of them before the show.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, you did?

[George Camel]

They are riled up.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, they're.

[George Camel]

They're.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a live wire and a particularly. I might. If I might observe, and we've been called by many people the. The root beer float of the Ramsay show. George thinks he's the root beer. I'll stay with the vanilla ice cream. That's fine.

[George Camel]

I'm lucky to be a vessel.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm just happy to be in. In. In the discussion.

[George Camel]

I'd be the. I'd be the paper straw in that float if I could be.

[Ken Coleman]

So we're going to have a good time today. George is going to help you with budgeting the money, saving the money, getting out of debt, investing money, and I want to help you making more money. That's my play here at the Ramsey show. And so we do that together. We have a lot of fun. You ready to go, friend?

[George Camel]

I'm pumped.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's do this. Christina starts us off in San Bernardino. One of my favorite places to say not stay, George, but to say San Bernardino. That's a fun, fun place. Let's get to Christina. How can we help today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet. What's going on?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So my husband and I are on baby step two. We've paid off 39,000 since November, which we've very proud of.

[Ken Coleman]

You should be. Congratulations. You got the M.O. yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you. However, we still have 126,000 of student loan debt, a car loan, and we have not yet purchased our first home. And I'm almost 40, and I recently listened to a show that addressed retirement, and I'm feeling so discouraged that we'll never catch up since we're starting this journey so late. We gross 200,000 a year, and my question is, is it still possible for us to become baby step millionaires?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's get that out of the way. George is going to tell you how. He's going to show you specifics. But let's start there because if you don't believe it, Christina, you're not going to receive it. You feel me?

[George Camel]

Oh, that was good.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Put that on a stitch pillow or something.

[Ken Coleman]

There it is. I'm already in the hallmark category and we've only been on the show three minutes. This is unbelievable. I should probably quit while I'm ahead. George, explain it now. She believes it.

[George Camel]

Yeah. So we can walk through. If you follow the Ramsey plan, here's what would happen. So you guys have crushed it. Paying off 39k already. How much longer until you're completely debt free? If you're doing this with gazelle intensity.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We'Re hoping 18 to 24 months.

[George Camel]

Okay, so another 18 months, you'll be debt free. That'll put you at still about 40 years old.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I turned 40 in June.

[George Camel]

Woo. Okay, let's say 41 once you have the emergency fund. How's that?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

If you started investing and you guys make $200,000, which is incredible, it's a great income. That would mean you're investing $30,000 a year. Once turn. Baby step four. Are you tracking with me? Okay, so I'm just trying to show you some math to show you what would happen. That's $2,500 a month household going into retirement accounts. We're going to assume a 10% return. You have nothing in retirement right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, I have a teacher, so I do have a pension. That has about 89,000 in there.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, that's not nothing.

[George Camel]

And here I'm going to try to plug in, see if we can get it on the screen for you. Just.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Yeah. So George is out there. George is plugging in.

[George Camel]

So I'm just showing you 42 to 67. Right. Let's say you, you work a little bit longer to catch up. That would still give you $3.3 million in that one account.

[Ken Coleman]

There we go. Will that do, Christina?

[George Camel]

I feel like she just won a game show.

[Ken Coleman]

There it is on the screen. For those of you watching on YouTube.

[George Camel]

And let's say even by 62. So that's a 20 year investment period. If you even. I'm calculating from zero, Christina. $0 in any retirement account, 42 to 62. 2500 bucks a month. That means you guys never get a raise over 20 years, which we all know is not going to be the case. You're still going to have 1.9 million.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Wow.

[George Camel]

And guess what? Only 30% of that was your contribution. The other 70% is just compound growth. Now we can all look back and go, oh, my gosh, if I had started at 25, I could listen, the past is the past.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't should all over yourself.

[George Camel]

That's right.

[Ken Coleman]

Don't do it. Don't do it. Lady on the front row invest. Lady on the front row is like, what did he say?

[George Camel]

We should have avoided this debt. I get it.

[Ken Coleman]

Do it. Don't do it.

[George Camel]

But listen, at this speed and intensity in which you're going. I have no fear that you guys are going to be multimillionaires and retire with dignity. And then you can work because you want to and not because you have to.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you so much.

[Ken Coleman]

So, Christina, we're going to flip the question on you. Are you ready to answer it?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Christina, is it too late for you and your husband to retire with dignity and lots of freedom?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It is not too late.

[Ken Coleman]

Come on.

[George Camel]

There it is.

[Ken Coleman]

Come. Gosh.

[George Camel]

I love when a calculator can give you hope. It does special right there.

[Ken Coleman]

And you're really.

[George Camel]

It's. It's Christina. It's.

[Ken Coleman]

This is.

[George Camel]

You guys worked your tail off to make $200,000 a year, get out of this debt. And the good news is, once you're out of this debt, you will never go back.

[Ken Coleman]

So now this is, though. This was the. This was the. This was the win that you needed in your sales.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It was. I know I've been feeling with every. With every celebration. I feel so much. Just shame and guilt.

[Ken Coleman]

No worries.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So this was what I needed. Thank you so much.

[Ken Coleman]

Here's your phrase. Okay. Here's your phrase for today and the rest of this weekend. I want you to just say it to yourself or say it out loud if you don't mind being cheesy like me. You ready?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

There is no shame in my game. Say it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

There is no shame in my game.

[Ken Coleman]

There it is, George. Fantastic. By the way, James, I got to point out, I want to. I want to brag on my colleague here for a second. I like when you throw the investment calculator on the screen for people that are watching via YouTube. I think you could be the John King of the Ramsey show.

[George Camel]

Wow, that's high praise.

[Ken Coleman]

I want to get you out of that chair, James. I want to see. Can we get him on a board behind me?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Where he's like. He's like. Now let's go over here. I'd like to say. I Think you could do.

[George Camel]

Let's see what's going on in this county over here. If we zoom in, you're.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, and I'm talking about for people to know what I'm talking about. Real quick reference. That's John King on cnn. He really made the election night screen where he goes the touch screen and he goes in and he goes back and forth. And now every network has their own John King. But I think he's the OG and it's not a political statement. For those of you that hate the network that he's on, you got to, got to qualify everything these days.

[George Camel]

I know, I know, but he's good.

[Ken Coleman]

On that big board, isn't.

[George Camel]

No, that's true.

[Ken Coleman]

I want to see. We got to figure out how to do that. Well, the thing is, I'll, I'll brainstorm next time we have a meeting.

[George Camel]

The visual helps to actually just see it in front of your eyes and go, here's the math that will overcome your emotion that you're feeling right now.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, let's do a quick. Because a lot of people are watching, listening right now that absolutely. They resonate with Christina and her husband. So I want to go back to the start of that call and I want you to break down the psychology there of what really happened in those few minutes with her.

[George Camel]

Well, you heard her say it at the end. At the root of all this was just shame and guilt. It was, oh my gosh, look at the mess we're in. We're never going to be able to retire. Of course you screwed it up. You're almost 40 and you still don't have your life together. You don't own a home. You should be ashamed of yourself. And then we go, let's leak the reality of what we're doing.

[Ken Coleman]

Do you hear a reaction, though?

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's how she started. She won the Price is Right.

[Ken Coleman]

She literally. Yes, it was a high pitched reaction which is. Was really guttural.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

In the sense of what I mean, it was almost one of those deals.

[George Camel]

I might as well have given her a Broyhill Dinette set at that point. That's the excitement she had. I loved it.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice reference to the Broyhill Dinette set.

[George Camel]

It lives rent free in my head.

[Ken Coleman]

But the reality is I don't think people realize how quickly and how effectively compound interest works. And you just demonstrated in the debt snowball.

[George Camel]

I mean, you heard it. 18 to 24 months is the average for people to get out of debt. Using the Ramsey plan, using the debt snowball two years.

[Ken Coleman]

24 months of hustle for a lifetime.

[George Camel]

For 24 years of freedom. Are you willing to trade that? That's the question.

[Ken Coleman]

Good question.

[George Camel]

Not easy. Most people would rather live in mediocrity for 24 years. Not Christina.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I love it. Great way to start the show today. Okay, we got to take a quick break. During the break, George and I will talk about our favorite dinette sets and then we'll be back to take more of your calls. This is Ramsey Show.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip offs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest, most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them. And, and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch. Give them a call at 800-356-4282.

[Ken Coleman]

The Ramsey show continues. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman. My pal George Camel is with me today. It's the law firm of Coleman and Campbell.

[George Camel]

You've seen us on bus stop benches.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly, exactly right. 888. 825. 5225 is the phone number. Kyle is up next in Kansas City, Missouri. Kyle, how can we help today again?

[Caller]

And George, hey, thanks so much for taking my call. It's an honor to speak with both of you, so thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, the honor is ours, sir. What's happening?

[Caller]

Yeah, I, I guess quick question for you guys. I, I have one credit card. I have no debt except my mortgage at this point. Have heard you guys obviously just evangelize cutting up these, cutting up these credit cards. I just am nervous that if I do it. You know what? Like, will the lender. Will the lender be after me? What if I have to refinance in the future? Like, I just. For some reason, the thought of cutting up my. My credit card here is making me nervous. You guys have sold me on the arguments of cutting it up. I just call in for last minute reassurance.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, well, this is great. You couldn't come to a better place. I'm going to warn you. When you cut up your credit card with scissors, there is an automatic beacon that is sent to the credit card companies. And a very burly gentleman with large shoulders will call you. He will speak to you in very unfriendly tones. He will threaten you. And it's. It's a thing. So you got to be willing to deal with that. But if you're willing to deal with that, then it's fine. Okay, Kyle, I'm joking. Kyle, you. You just. I tried really hard to be sarcastic. Did you catch that at all? Did it miss the mark? The studio?

[Caller]

I'm generally scared over here, man.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[George Camel]

So he really thought Dog the Bounty Hunter and the SWAT team was about to show up?

[Ken Coleman]

I was kind of trying. No. So here's the deal in all seriousness. Nothing's gonna happen. In fact, the only thing that will happen is that you will feel completely free now, because there's something about cutting credit cards. And I don't know if you know this, but for years, Dave would have people cut their credit cards on the air. People would send Dave artwork. In this building to this day, we have artwork of framed credit cards. In fact, we just took a picture with a guy who had a credit card cut up in multiple pieces during the last commercial break and framed it. So nothing is going to happen to you, Kyle.

[George Camel]

You can close the account completely. On top of cutting it up. You don't have a balance on it, correct?

[Caller]

No, no, no balance.

[Ken Coleman]

And you're not going to need it. Tell him why he's never going to need it.

[George Camel]

Yeah, you're not going to need it. Your mortgage will continue to keep up a healthy score. And so if you ever needed to refinance or do anything else, you can do that just fine. Even once you paid off the house, without a credit score, you. You're going to be fine. And so either way, there's no reason to keep around this card. I know. It's. It feels like a security blanket at this point. You've had it so long, and credit card companies are so good at marketing to you to where you think I need them? They're doing me a solid by being there for me in my time of need. But, Kyle, you don't need them anymore. You have money.

[Ken Coleman]

They're not even going to know that you cut it either. I think you legitimately are scared. I love your honesty. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to give you the opportunity to cut this card right now on the.

[George Camel]

Oh, you have it with you?

[Ken Coleman]

Do you have some scissors?

[Caller]

I don't have any scissors next to me. No.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, where are you now?

[Caller]

I'm in my car.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, that's unfortunate.

[George Camel]

Is it like titanium, or can you. Can you bend it and break it?

[Caller]

Maybe I could rip it with my teeth. I don't know.

[Ken Coleman]

I gotta say, America wants to hear that. If you can rip it with your teeth and get the cell phone right up to the mouth, you have an.

[George Camel]

Emergency fund to cover the dental bill after that one.

[Caller]

You know, I do have an emergency fund, thanks to you guys. So thanks again for that.

[George Camel]

Way to go. That's why you don't need these credit card companies.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

And so I'd cut it up, get rid of the account.

[Ken Coleman]

You can do something fun with it. You can shoot it with a gun. We've had people do that. We've had people. I think somebody put it once in a wood chipper.

[George Camel]

Oh, that was fun. I do remember.

[Caller]

There you go.

[George Camel]

Very Fargo.

[Ken Coleman]

But you need to have fun with this because the credit card company is not gonna know. They're not gonna know. There's no impulse that's sent. I was joking. It was a horrible joke.

[George Camel]

What company? Can I ask?

[Ken Coleman]

He really believed that. Did you hear him? He was like, oh, man. I don't.

[Caller]

Yeah, I. I have it with capital one.

[George Camel]

Oh, perfect. All right, I'll let him know that.

[Ken Coleman]

I'll tell you. I'll tell you who gets an email is Jennifer Garner, and she's very sweet.

[George Camel]

She's going to lose it.

[Ken Coleman]

She's going to be very upset. In Hollywood somewhere. Somewhere in Hollywood, she's going to get a little email.

[Caller]

George, can I ask one more quick question while I have you?

[George Camel]

Sure.

[Ken Coleman]

Will we allow it?

[George Camel]

I'll allow it.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. George allows it. Go ahead.

[Caller]

If I have to refinance, do I just need to go through a different lender to manual underwrite, like you guys say?

[George Camel]

Only if you had paid off the mortgage, but in that case, you wouldn't have nothing to refinance. Okay, so your mortgage is a debt, and so it's reported on your credit report. It will create a credit score. It will keep that credit score until you pay off the mortgage. And then six to 12 months later, after you pay off the mortgage, your credit score will disappear for good, and you won't need debt anymore. So there's the good news.

[Ken Coleman]

There it is.

[George Camel]

That was a fun call. I enjoyed that.

[Ken Coleman]

Now you and I are under the gun. We're going to have that big burly guy calling us for what we just told.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I can't wait to call Capital One to Kyle told me he'd cut up his card.

[Ken Coleman]

We should. We should. We should rat him out. Yeah, narc, that's what we'll do. Let's go to Orlando, Florida, the home of the happiest place on earth. Apparently, Ella is there. Ella, how can we help?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, George. Thanks for taking the call.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet. What's up?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So, I recently got an offer for a new vault by company.

[Caller]

It's a promotion and an eternal transfer.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But it's a large bump in pay, and I want to know if it's greedy or not to counter offer since they can see my salary.

[Ken Coleman]

So let me make sure I understood you. You just got a really nice offer. It's an internal transfer. Same company?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, correct.

[Ken Coleman]

And it's a really nice bump. How much of a bump for you?

[Caller]

So I'm at 65 right now a.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Year, and the offer was 84. So 19 more a year.

[Ken Coleman]

And what are you thinking to counter and why?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm thinking of countering for 90,000 because I've talked to people in that role, and that's where they've come in around. The only difference is that I'm about a year away from getting my engineering.

[Caller]

Degree where these people already have their degree.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, well, there's the piece of information that I needed. I want to see what George says. Because you don't have the engineering degree that these other people have that are at that higher rate, I don't think I would counter here. We're also talking about $6,000, and I've.

[George Camel]

Got my 500 bucks.

[Ken Coleman]

The ultimate expert of amortization. Beside me here, you're the ambassador of amortization.

[George Camel]

That's the hell I want to die on. But I appreciate that.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a nice title for somebody as nerdy as you are. You have a segment called Talk Nerdy today.

[George Camel]

That's true.

[Ken Coleman]

And all of a sudden you're too cool for ambassador of amortization.

[George Camel]

You're right. All right, so 500 bucks in gross profit 500 bucks.

[Ken Coleman]

So, George, I say I would not counter. And Ella, I love your confidence, but again, you got to understand the risk of why I think that's not so wise. It's one thing if you say, I've got the engineering degree and you cite that in your counter, you go, would you be willing to get me to 90? Here's why. I've done the market research and now you got some proof. All you have to stand on is, I'm a year out.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

And I just. You don't want to counter when you don't have a good case. And in this situation, George, I don't think she has a good case. What do you think?

[George Camel]

I think the employers would probably come back to her and say, well, here's why. 90 was the starting salary over here because they have more experience with this degree, more education. So the question, Ella, is, does the employer know that these salaries are public? Are these out there or is this like I talk to my coworkers, it's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Public on like the internal site.

[George Camel]

Okay. So if this is a company wide thing that salaries are public, I think you have more right to just bring it up and say, hey, when I was doing research, I found on their company site, here's the listed salaries. I'm curious what the gap is and what is the path to growth to get there? I think that's a much more. It's a less combative stance versus.

[Ken Coleman]

I like that. Here's my counter now. But, but I like that, George. And. But I would only add to that. I think I like that a lot, actually, George. But I would add in there. Is there a path for growth to that? Because I'm a year out from having the engineering degree. Would that then put me in line to get me up to nine?

[George Camel]

Just getting clarity for what I'm saying.

[Ken Coleman]

That's a very different posture because you're asking a very thoughtful question. You're not countering. So I actually, I'm going to go my. Yeah, I'm going to. Yes. And myself and say that I like how George came in there. I think that's the tactic because at least opens the conversation. They realize they know where your head is at. You've done the market research. It's valid. I think that's a really good setup.

[George Camel]

Congratulations.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thanks so much.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, let's celebrate that. You got to be celebrating the big bump.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I am, I am.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Really proud of you. That's super exciting stuff. Don't spend it all, George.

[George Camel]

Lifestyle creep is real.

[Ken Coleman]

There it is. You Got George sitting on your shoulder.

[George Camel]

I'm watching.

[Ken Coleman]

We need.

[George Camel]

Always watch.

[Ken Coleman]

Always watching.

[George Camel]

George on your shoulder.

[Ken Coleman]

A little George.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You get a little.

[George Camel]

She can get a little treat. Just don't go crazy.

[Ken Coleman]

That's exactly right. All right, coming up, we got a little break. And during the break, George and I are going to talk about his favorite gluten free treats. That could take a while and then we'll be back. This is the Ramsey Show. As an investor and a person of.

[George Camel]

Faith, when your mutual funds and ETFs put your money into the dark side.

[Ken Coleman]

You might feel a disturbance. Well, good news.

[George Camel]

Timothy Plan offers investments for people who.

[Ken Coleman]

Want to be intentional about where their money goes.

[George Camel]

As the pioneering force in biblically responsible investing, Timothy Plan entered the investment space to offer clean alternatives to secular funds that invest in stuff you'd never willingly.

[Ken Coleman]

Expose your family to. And for more than 30 years, Timothy.

[George Camel]

Plan has offered mutual funds and ETFs.

[Ken Coleman]

That won't contradict your values or sabotage your faith.

[George Camel]

So if you're serious about investing with.

[Ken Coleman]

A clear conscience, Timothy Plan could be.

[George Camel]

Just what you're searching for.

[Ken Coleman]

Contact your financial advisor today to see if Timothy Plan is right for you.

[George Camel]

Or visit timothyplan.com for more information.

[Ken Coleman]

Investing includes risk, including possible loss of principal.

[George Camel]

Before investing, carefully consider a fund's investment.

[Ken Coleman]

Objective, risks, charges and expenses contained in the Prospectus. [e-mail] Read carefully before investing. Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners Limited.

[George Camel]

And ETFs distributed by Foreside Fund Services, LLC.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is alongside. And you know, it's amazing when you think about this show and the footprint it has around the world and here in the United States. Over 30 years the show has been going and it started on a card table. Before there was a show, there was a business idea that Dave Ramsey had in he and Sharon's living room. And now it is a business north of $250 million and as we've said, decades of worldwide influence. And so this is really fun because Dave has not written a book in a while, but his new book is now available to pre order. It's called Build a Business yous Love, where he unpacks how this business actually got started and has grown to where it is today. The way he talks about it is it's the baby steps for running a business. And so this is a fabulous book and a real great fit for so many of you who want to work for yourself or you're already running a business. You can pre order it now for only 29.99. And when you pre order, you get over $350 in free bonus items including the entree leadership hiring playbook and the ebook and the audiobook which is enhanced. So pre order today it's only 29.99. You pre [e-mail] store ramseysolutions.com store or if you're watching on YouTube or listening via podcast, click the link in the show notes and you can pre order that book. Really looking forward to how this, this is really going to change the game for so many people. Build a business you love by Dave Ramsey. All right, Jeff is up in Atlanta, Georgia. Jeff, how can we help today?

[Caller]

Hello. So my question is, first of all, thanks for having me on the show.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet.

[Caller]

I have a question that I don't think has been asked before, but. So I wanna. I can't invest in the S&P 500 and other similar ETF because of religion reasons. So should I create my own diversified portfolio?

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, I have questions. Okay. What is the. And I don't want to. I want to be very sensitive in how I ask this question. What is the spiritual or religious. Actually sounds spiritual. I'm going to call it. What is the religious reason that you cannot invest in the S&P 500?

[Caller]

So the reason is I'm Muslim and I'm not allowed to invest in any companies that involve alcohol, gambling.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

Adult entertainment, all those.

[Ken Coleman]

Totally caught up now. Okay. Because I'd not heard that before, but that makes. I get it. So tell us what you're thinking. I want George to be able to hear this. What would be your diversified stock strategy?

[Caller]

So first I found like a comp. I found another ETF that pretty much it's like pulls from the S&P 500, but excludes the company that do the gambling and alcohol and all that stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

But the problem with that is the expense ratio is so much more higher than it would be for investing in an S&P 500 retirement account. No, this is personal.

[George Camel]

Are you investing in retirement currently?

[Caller]

Yes, but through work like 401k and stuff like that.

[George Camel]

Okay. So those funds likely have companies that are against your beliefs, correct?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

But you're just. It's the options that you have.

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

And are you investing 15% into that? Those retirement accounts?

[Caller]

I believe it's 6, 6% match and I'm doing 100% of whatever 6% is.

[George Camel]

Okay. I would encourage you to use those tax advantaged accounts first. It Sounds like you don't need to be investing beyond retirement right now. Unless that 15% gets you maxing out every tax advantaged account where you need to go to these non retirement taxable brokerage accounts. Is that the case?

[Caller]

I don't understand what you mean by that.

[George Camel]

So what is your income?

[Caller]

So I make about 80k before bonus.

[George Camel]

Okay. And you have a company 401k?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Is there a Roth version of that that they offer?

[Caller]

Yes, I put in, I contributed one time, but then I stopped. I really wanted to take advantage of like tax reduction.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, the thing is with the Roth account, you're just using after tax money. You don't get the deduction, but then it's going to grow tax free and you'll withdraw it tax free in retirement. And especially with your income, I would recommend you go with the Roth option. It's not worth it for the tax deduction when you see the growth and the tax free withdrawals later on. So in that regard, here's my question to you. Why is it okay to invest in the 401k in these funds but not outside of the 401? What's the difference?

[Caller]

Well, really the 401k is something that I was contributing to already unknowingly, and I just realized how much I had in it. Right. I still haven't made a decision whether I want to stop contributing and like go full on the other direction. But right now I know since it's like my only option at work and it was already automatically being contributed. Right. That's not something that would like behold against me religiously.

[George Camel]

Yeah. But I have looked into this. There are halal investing funds that are compliant.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Have you looked into those? Do they all have expense high expense ratios?

[Caller]

Yes, they start at like 2.5 or 2.0. It's really high.

[George Camel]

Man, that is brutal. Well, here's the, here's the deal. There's going to have to be a compromise here. If this is part of your beliefs and this is something you feel really strongly about, you're just going to have to pay that expense ratio for the pleasure of, you know, following your values.

[Caller]

Well, do you think if I decided pretty much to actively so I create like my own portfolio that operates as a passive ETF kind of thing. Right. I only pull from the companies that I do align with, from the S&P 500, NASDAQ and all that.

[George Camel]

I mean, you're talking about investing in 400 something different companies likely.

[Caller]

Well, I would.

[George Camel]

That's gonna get real complicated. Real Fast.

[Caller]

I would only pick enough to have my portfolio diversified. I wouldn't go all the way into like percenting those 1% companies and stuff like that. I worry about the top 10 and then the ones that come underneath. But like, when it gets to like that, that company, that's like point 5% of the S&P 500. I won't worry too much about it.

[George Camel]

I mean, you can do that. I still think the tax advantage of these retirement accounts outweighs all of this to where I would just choose the best options you have in the 401k and it's, it's the options you have, you have no control over that. And I would stick to those retirement accounts for the foreseeable future until you get to the point where you're maxing out your retirement accounts or you paid off your house and you want to increase your investing. But I wouldn't just mess with a taxable brokerage account and picking single stocks. I just wouldn't personally do it.

[Caller]

Even, even if I'm picking the stocks not based on what I believe are best good investments, but based on what the s and P500 is picking.

[George Camel]

I'm telling you can do that. It's going to be a really complicated portfolio and get messy real quick when you're trying to auto invest in 400 different. Whatever the top companies are. And the less companies you have, the less diversified you are, which adds a lot of risk. So if you said, hey man, I'm gonna go in Tesla because it's compliant. Have you seen Tesla lately? This is why you want to be diversified amongst hundreds and hundreds of companies. And so I don't know. I don't. I would talk to other folks who are in the same boat as you that are part of your faith community and find out what the options are and then just choose the best that you can. That's all you can do. And I hope that.

[Ken Coleman]

Or you gotta pay the additional or pay the extra.

[George Camel]

You know, if the normal expense ratio is under 1%, you're paying two and a half. Look, it's a, you know, it's basically a tax you're paying.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

To follow your religious beliefs.

[Ken Coleman]

Jeff, I've been listening in here. George, I think has given you terrific advice here. And you keep pushing back. You keep, you know, and it's like, look, if you want to take that on, George, think that that's a lot. And I would assume because it's so much, it also has a lot of risk involved with it. That's what I'M hearing from you. So my pushback on this to you, Jeff, is you can't have your cake and eat it too is an old phrase, and I think it applies here. You know, I really respect anybody that lives their life on a set of religious beliefs. And what that really is, is about conviction. But in order to live a life of conviction, there will have to be sacrifice. There is no. I don't care what religion it is. You could take the entire world's religion and all of it requires sacrifice to, to follow it. So you're already violating your religious beliefs and your 401k. That was. Those are your words, not ours. So I, as I listen to this, listen to George, I mean, I think I would take those other funds, what'd you call it? The, the.

[George Camel]

Oh, the Halal compliant funds.

[Ken Coleman]

I think that's the sacrifice you have to make.

[George Camel]

And they're going to be more expensive because they're actively managed, but that's the sacrifice. Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

And so that's just my take, Jeff, because I'm actually honoring what you're saying, and I think you got to follow that fully or not at all. I don't think there's a midway there. This is the Ramsey Show.

[F]

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions, possibly. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. So why, why is that?

[Dave Ramsey]

Well, credit unions, for one thing, are nonprofit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing, so you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that, though, is the fact that the customer is the owner, changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric.

[F]

Yes, well. And I think we have found one that is incredible, and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

[Dave Ramsey]

You know, that's why we're partnering with them, because they've got a scope to be able to handle the Ramsey audience. And they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values, and they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible.

[F]

Yeah, absolutely. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[F]

And I'm not kidding, it took. It took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly, like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says fair wins on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience. And I, I so, so appreciate that. So again, you guys, I know it can be a pain to switch banks or to open up new accounts, but Fairwinds, again, they make it so easy. Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with [e-mail] or on their app. And you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs.

[Dave Ramsey]

You guys know how much I hate banks in general. And so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

[F]

Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to Fairwinds.org Ramsey to learn more. That's F a I r w I n d s.org Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited to have you with us. Great studio audience today. It's packed on this Friday. I gotta, I gotta tell you, if you ever want to get to the Nashville area, we're in a suburb, Franklin, Tennessee. You can come watch the show. Three hours and we've got this just beautiful, beautiful studio. Free coffee, cold beverages, baked goods. I mean, it's just fantastic. We love meeting folks. So great studio audience today. Big thanks to them. All right, it's time for our question of the day here on the Ramsey show. It's brought to you by why Refi? With why refi, you can take control of your defaulted private student loans with a plan that works with your monthly budget. Visit yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey it may not be available in all states.

[George Camel]

Today's question comes from Nate in Colorado. How do I break down annual semi annual insurance payments like car insurance into a monthly budget? So I'm ready when the bill comes due. Love this question. And it all comes down to this magical term sinking fund.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I love when you talk nerdy, George.

[George Camel]

I feel like this was an accidental talk nerdy. To me. This is a bonus one for Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a bonus talk nerdy segment.

[George Camel]

So the idea here is just a strategic way to save money by setting aside a little bit each month so that you're ready when the time come. So for easy numbers, Ken, let's say there's an annual insurance bill for twelve hundred dollars.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. Twelve hundred bucks. That's what I owe. That's what I owe every year.

[George Camel]

Every January, 1200 bucks comes out of your account.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

How do you budget for this? It's random, right? Well, you can create a sinking fund inside of every dollar and mark it as a sinking fund and say, I'm going to set aside $100 in every month's budget goes right into that.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[George Camel]

Into the sinking fund.

[Ken Coleman]

I love it.

[George Camel]

Now, this is digital on every dollar, Right. So you actually have to set aside this money in your checking account or in a savings account.

[Ken Coleman]

Now, how do I not screw that up? Because, you know, I struggle with details. So how do I do?

[George Camel]

That's the thing. For some people, it's better if they transfer that money to a savings account and then set a reminder to transfer it back once January hits. So they have the 1200 bucks.

[Ken Coleman]

Like that's a good move for me. Would you agree?

[George Camel]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

You know me well.

[George Camel]

Some people like to just stack it up in their checking account. So 100 bucks becomes 200, becomes 300 come January. We're sitting at 1200.

[Ken Coleman]

It's just there.

[George Camel]

But again, you have to know that this is allocated for that. That piece of.

[Ken Coleman]

What do you do? I know that you told me what I should do. What do you do?

[George Camel]

I'm a fan of the savings account because I also like to have that money grow a little bit for me with some interest. And so I'll transfer it to savings. But I'm a nerd when it comes to reminders. And every dollar also has reminders you can set up inside of here.

[Ken Coleman]

So I'll tell you, come next January, I get a little alert.

[George Camel]

Yes. So I have mine under insurance and taxes in my budget, and I have them all listed as sinking funds. You can see, right? I'm showing Ken. This is very, very exciting.

[Ken Coleman]

I have never felt so VIP in my life.

[George Camel]

So this is.

[Ken Coleman]

I just looked inside George's every dollar.

[George Camel]

It's homeowner's insurance.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow.

[George Camel]

Which.

[Ken Coleman]

You really are a nerd.

[George Camel]

I have auto and umbrella on one policy. I have property taxes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Then I have my wife's life insur. Life insurance policy.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Every single one of those has its own line item. And there's whatever it is, I divide it out, and then I have that as a sinking fund.

[Ken Coleman]

What's that? Is that. Did I see. Is that gifts For Ken.

[George Camel]

Did I see that? Actually has a whole category.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, good. Okay.

[George Camel]

Just hangouts with Ken. Gifts for Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

It's a little awkward that I saw that, but boy, am I excited.

[George Camel]

Well, hope you like a new pickleball paddle. I know you're wearing yours out now.

[Ken Coleman]

You'Re speaking my love language. Pickleball equipment. I'm in.

[George Camel]

There you go.

[Ken Coleman]

All right. Very good question, by the way.

[George Camel]

Great article on this. So I'm going to make sure that it is linked in the show notes. So hit the description and show notes of today's episode. And there's a great article on our website from Rachel Cruz called what is a sinking fund and how do you create one? It'll walk you through all of this and I think it's really going to help everyone out there struggling with these things that aren't much.

[Ken Coleman]

That was on the screen there.

[George Camel]

Oh, that was my screen. Was that you got. Oh, look at that. Good timing, guys.

[Ken Coleman]

So George is actually showing the article right there.

[George Camel]

I'm telling you, I like a little show and tell.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm telling you, I'm trying to make you the John King of the Ramsey show. It's like a. It's a crusade for me Now, I.

[George Camel]

Love when a life goal, but I aspire to it now.

[Ken Coleman]

I think you've got the gift. I do. All right, Good question. They're really fun. By the way, I want to make a quick mention. Anytime we mention any resource, article, a product, anything on the show, it is always linked in the show notes. So you can come back to it. That's a huge thing for me.

[George Camel]

Treasure trove. So called a gateway drug to financial freedom. That's what happens in the show notes.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow, I love that. That feels very Friday to me. We're talking gateway drugs, financial freedom. Hello. All right, Jennifer's up next in Buffalo. Jennifer, how can we help?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hi, guys. I thank you so much for having me and thank you so much for what you do. My husband and I have quite high credit card debt and we were wondering if we should do home equity loan to pay this credit card debt off.

[Ken Coleman]

Because of the lower interest rate.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes, that's the main thing. But I hear you say don't borrow to pay, you know, credit cards. And I'm just. I'm wondering if that is all right.

[Ken Coleman]

This is your moment. You got George right here. George, what are you going to say, George?

[George Camel]

Well, I got away. I got indigestion after hearing that survey says we need a tums. It's a no for me. It's a no for me. And here's why. It's, it's partially the math on it of like it sounds crazy because it is crazy that I'm going to use debt to pay off other debt to go into a different kind of debt and hopefully pay that debt off. And if I don't, I'll just get a consolidation loan to pay off the heloc. Do you sound. You see where this is going? This is where most people find themselves just playing a shell game of debt.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And instead what I like to do, use that interest rate to make you so angry that you pay off that credit card so fast that it doesn't know what hit it and you never go into debt again. Okay, so how much is left on the credit card debt?

[Dr. John Deloney]

$60,000 across several credit cards.

[George Camel]

Okay. And what did you use that money on?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's been over several years, so I'm not even sure I would say just that maybe vacation, maybe just places that we wouldn't normally use our bank card because we're nervous about the security.

[George Camel]

Okay, you say we. Is there a husband who's an accomplice to these financial crimes?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Okay, there is. Good, good, good.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow. Financial crimes.

[George Camel]

I like to make it really add some drama to it. George's well, you guys, I just feel like you guys work too hard to be this broke to go 60 grand in credit card debt instead of just saving up and paying for things you can.

[Ken Coleman]

What's your combined income?

[Dr. John Deloney]

260.

[George Camel]

Oh, oh.

[Ken Coleman]

Listen, I gotta tell you something. Jennifer, Jennifer. Several people in our live studio audience were a little put out by that information. They were like, come on Jennifer.

[George Camel]

This is the next question America's asking. Why does someone making $260,000 needing to fund their life on a credit card? Where is your actual income going?

[Ken Coleman]

Oh boy.

[George Camel]

So we do have a little bit.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Of money in the bank, but this is new. So we made probably 120 thousand maybe last year and about the same the year before.

[George Camel]

So this is a new over doubled your income. Okay, this is great.

[Ken Coleman]

Great.

[George Camel]

Think about this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Great.

[George Camel]

You guys could be debt free before the year's over. You're now bringing home what, 15, $16,000 a month.

[Ken Coleman]

She doesn't believe it. George, tell her how I can hear it. I can hear the disbelief.

[George Camel]

Okay, we are currently in March 2025, year of our Lord. Agree, Agree. Okay, so let's say nine months. 60,000 divided by nine months is 6,600 bucks.

[Ken Coleman]

I love when you do so.

[George Camel]

6,600 bucks out of your 16 needs to go to this debt to get done by December 31st. You with me?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, I'm with you.

[George Camel]

So now here's the deal. Can you guys live off $10,000 a month? Can you?

[Ken Coleman]

I hope so. I hope you guys can scrape that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Well, that's why. Forget your mind. Don't rely on the human mind. It's fragile and feeble.

[Ken Coleman]

The mind can tell you some crazy things.

[George Camel]

Not since the fall of man have been have we been able to trust the mind. And so here's what you do. Do a budget with your husband and say, this is what our paychecks came in as. These are all of our expenses. And if we follow this plan, we're going to have 7, 8, $9,000 we can throw at this credit card debt. Because here's the truth. I think you guys can do better than end of the year. I think six months, this thing could be done.

[Ken Coleman]

Whoa, slow down, George. Jennifer's gonna faint.

[George Camel]

Ten grand a month for six months. Get angry and aggressive about it. Don't do a HELOC to try to move this over, to give yourself some comfort to slow down your progress. Get so angry at the 25% APR on these cards to where you go. Every single cent is gonna go to these credit cards. Are you guys angry yet? I'm angry for you. We are angry.

[Ken Coleman]

I've never seen him this angry.

[George Camel]

Jennifer, I am livid.

[Ken Coleman]

And this is. I'm not kidding you. That's about as high test as George gets. All right? The guy is. Is. He's just very chill. He's very angry.

[George Camel]

I could punch a hole in some soft drywall right now. You're starting.

[Ken Coleman]

You know what? You're starting to worry me. I feel like I'm. I'm pouring fuel on the flame here. Relax a little.

[George Camel]

All right, I apologize. But, Jennifer, you know what to do. You guys got this.

[Ken Coleman]

You can do this.

[George Camel]

Jennifer, get aggressive. No more debt. Debt is not the answer to your problems. You are the answer.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, wow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Thank you guys so much.

[Ken Coleman]

You bet. Well, great hour. George. I got to say, you were on fire.

[George Camel]

The nitrogen cold brew hit at just the right.

[Ken Coleman]

Is that what it is?

[George Camel]

I think so.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, do you have any kind of prescription anxiety meds that you should just nitro?

[George Camel]

Cold brew. That's all I need.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's get another cold brew in here. Somebody. I don't feel safe. This is the Ramsey show.

[F]

You spent years trying to get everything just right for your family. Now you need an easy way to make sure your important financial Documents are as organized as the rest of your house. Well, good news, Knockbox, that's n. Okay. Box, as in next of kin box, is a complete system that helps you be sure that you leave happy memories, not a mess when you pass away. Knockbox is a simple way to organize important paper and digital documents. IDs, tax returns, insurance policies, estate plans, accounts and other personal history. And one manageable place your family will feel your love and every detail you take care of. So start taking care of [e-mail] Ramsey a well organized legacy is a gift to your family. That's nokbox.com Ramsey this is the Ramsey.

[Ken Coleman]

Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your money, your work and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is with me. The phone number to jump in is Triple 882-55-5225. Triple 882-55-2255. Georgie, ready to go? Another hour. You got your V8? Your cold brew?

[George Camel]

How'd you know? I mix them together.

[Ken Coleman]

It's quite a concoction. What it means is great financial advice. I got to tell you that from the best beard.

[George Camel]

Worth it for five bucks on Venmo to get Ken to say that about me.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right. Robert's going to start us off this hour in Auburn. Robert, how can we help?

[Caller]

I'm doing great. Head just spinning a little bit. Woke up this morning and the car wasn't in my parking spot. What?

[George Camel]

No, hold on, Robert.

[Ken Coleman]

Hold on.

[George Camel]

Robert, speak clearly into your phone.

[Ken Coleman]

We're having a hard time hearing you. Like maybe you're muffled. Let's try a different angle to say.

[Caller]

Can you hear me now?

[Ken Coleman]

That's a little bit better. So you woke up this morning and you look outside and the car is not there.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Was this a shock to you? Was this shocking, or did you expect this?

[Caller]

Yeah, it was. It was very shocking.

[George Camel]

So there was zero communication beforehand that, hey, you're behind on payments. You don't catch up, here's what's going to happen.

[Caller]

Yeah, they didn't tell me that I was behind, but I knew I was behind for sure. But I didn't know they were just going to come and take it out.

[George Camel]

How long have you been behind on payments?

[Caller]

They said about 94 days.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, I mean, they can come take your car any time once your loan becomes delinquent. So it's. It's not a giant shock from gonna be honest that you stop making payments. You don't own the car, they do. And so the good news is this just happened today?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay, so there's. There's still some moves you can make to get this back, but we gotta make sure that you have the money to do it. It sounds like you are beyond paycheck to paycheck. How much money do you have.

[Caller]

Right now? Currently?

[George Camel]

Yes, my 500. Okay. Now, was there any personal items in the car for sure?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Okay. You can get your personal property back, and they can't charge you for recovering your stuff.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

So do you know where the car went?

[Caller]

I called the finance company that I got the loan with, and they told me they gave me the number and the location. I can pick it up and go ahead and request one in so I can get those items.

[George Camel]

Okay. So the next step, other than getting your items, if you can do this, this is the best move, is to reinstate or pay off the loan. Obviously, you can't pay off the loan, but to reinstate it, you would have to pay the past due amount on the car, plus any fees.

[Caller]

Which will be around 3,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, so now we know it's $3,000. And here's the deal. You usually have about 10 to 15 days to do this to catch up. Otherwise, they're going to sell your car at auction to get what they can for it, and then you'll owe the difference.

[Caller]

Okay.

[George Camel]

What was left on the loan?

[Caller]

16.

[George Camel]

Okay. And if they sell it at auction, it's not going to be, you know, market value, and so you likely will have a pretty big gap that you'll owe. So I'd rather, you see, try to get this thing reinstated in the next 15 days. But that means you got to come up with another 2500 bucks in 10 days.

[Caller]

Sounds good. Does it sound doable?

[George Camel]

How much do you make in a week?

[Ken Coleman]

What do you. What's doable look like? How are we going to come up with that? Can you share that? I'd like to know.

[Caller]

No, I'm just being optimistic. I mean, make 25 an hour, but.

[George Camel]

You know, can you work overtime? Can you do side gigs? I mean, this is, like, weird. We won't see the bed. We're going to be at work so much.

[Ken Coleman]

Speaking of the bed, I might sell the bed.

[George Camel]

Yeah. Can you sell anything in your life?

[Caller]

I'm sure I can if things in the trunk that I definitely can get rid of.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. And I'm talking. I'm calling family members, cousins, uncles. You got some patio furniture you want to get rid of? I'll sell it.

[George Camel]

I'd be flipping stuff.

[Ken Coleman]

I can't Hear you at all, Robert. You sound like you're inside of a roll of toilet paper to me. It's what it sounds like.

[Caller]

No, my fiance won't let me sell the furniture.

[George Camel]

Oh, there's a fiance involved? What does your fiance think about all this? This. This would honestly give me some hesitation as my, my provider gets his.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. She can't be happy right now. Not at all.

[Caller]

She's not. She's not happy. She's kind of never been in this situation either before, so it's the first for both of us.

[George Camel]

Is she broke too?

[Caller]

You said what happened?

[George Camel]

Is she broke too?

[Caller]

Not as much as me. Not right now.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, but I don't mean this in the way it's going to sound, but we got to forget about her for a moment and what she owns. We're talking about and what you can sell because you got to come up with more than 2500 because the 500 you got isn't going to stretch very far for what else is going on in your life. I got a feeling.

[Caller]

Is there another option besides reinstating this car?

[George Camel]

No, that's it. I mean, you still owe the money. My guess is your credit shot. And so if you went to a local credit union and said, hey, I need 2500 bucks to reinstate my, my repo, I don't know that they'd give it to you. That would be a last ditch effort. I would try.

[Caller]

What about a cash car? No. What do you mean by a car from cash?

[George Camel]

Well, that doesn't fix your repo problem. You're going to owe all of this money unless you get the car back, still owe it current on payments, and then you're. At least the ball's in your court. You could sell it private party and get way more for it and get out from under it. But my guess is you're underwater on this car. You owe 16. What is the car worth?

[Caller]

$4,000.

[George Camel]

There you go. Therein lies the problem.

[Ken Coleman]

I see what you're saying. You're just trying. Yeah, you're still going to be stuck with this debt. But again, even if we play this out with your logic and your question, you still don't have any cash. If you buy a car for $500, that's like Fred Flintstone's car, all right? You know what I'm saying? Like that's not a car.

[George Camel]

You're better off getting a bicycle.

[Ken Coleman]

Right.

[George Camel]

How are you getting to and from work?

[Caller]

Using my car, primarily.

[Ken Coleman]

I know you don't have a car.

[Caller]

Right. But we're on spring break, so I have like four days until I go back to work.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, there's your next thing.

[George Camel]

You got four days off.

[Ken Coleman]

You don't have a spring break. You need to be working today.

[George Camel]

But yeah, now I get that. I'd cash out that pto.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I would too.

[George Camel]

I wouldn't be taking any vacation time. That's the last thing you need to be doing right now.

[Ken Coleman]

You need cash. You don't need to be breaking. There are no breaks.

[George Camel]

I would be door to door offering to mow lawns, pick up leaves. I'd be doing anything I could to make 2,500 bucks in 10 days. That's 250 bucks a day. Can you do that? 25 bucks an hour, 10 hours a day. That's what it's going to take to get the car. What was the payment on the car?

[Caller]

600.

[George Camel]

Oh. And what are you making every month?

[Caller]

About 24, 2400 each every two weeks. So about 48, 24 to around there.

[George Camel]

4200Amonth?

[Caller]

Yes.

[George Camel]

And what are your monthly bills to cover all your expenses, including the minimum payments on your debts?

[Caller]

All combined, probably a good 1400. Besides the cost, around $2000.

[George Camel]

So you're telling me you make 4200 and you only have 2000 in bills? That means there should be two grand left over every month. How did you get behind on payments?

[Caller]

God bless. Your budget policy is missing a lot of things.

[Ken Coleman]

Life.

[George Camel]

Yeah, but where'd, Where'd that money go? What were you spending?

[Ken Coleman]

It doesn't know, George.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm about to say it's miscellaneous things. Everything.

[George Camel]

I'll tell you how we find out. Go look at your bank statement. It's gonna give you a little. It's gonna give you a little book about why you're broke. It's gonna tell you exactly where your money went. Oh, Robert, man, this is not gonna be fun. It's doable.

[Ken Coleman]

It is, but you got.

[George Camel]

It's a Hail Mary.

[Ken Coleman]

You gotta work like crazy. And we told you that for two minutes and you hit us with I'm on a, a four day spring break. No, bro, this is a. You got to change your whole intensity right now. You are working like crazy. You are selling everything. I'm not kidding when I said I'd call Uncle Larry and go, Uncle Larry, you got any patio furniture you don't want?

[George Camel]

I might sell her engagement ring to get out of this, to be honest. We'll get her another one later.

[Ken Coleman]

Whoa, George. That sacrifice, heat seeking, missile I'm just.

[George Camel]

Saying it's what I would do.

[Ken Coleman]

You. You know, what you actually would do.

[George Camel]

And if she loved me, she'd go, all right, we're. This is what we got to do.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, boy. He's got no car. And if you keep this up, George, he's going to have no fiance. This is the Ramsey Show.

[F]

Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer. And it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of healthcare costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and [e-mail] budget. That's chministries.org budget.

[Dave Ramsey]

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near [e-mail] agent. That's Ramsey Solutions. Agent.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell is with me. The phone number for you, America, is 8888-255225-88825-5225. So, you know, we. We always tell you call that number. And we're gonna get to one of these in a second here. We've got a. Sorry, we missed your call. Where people can leave a voicemail. So I want you to know that if you call sometimes and you can't get through and you leave a voicemail, we like to take some of those calls. But first, it is tax time. George. And got my meeting coming up and I'm all set. Love my tax pro.

[George Camel]

Feeling good about it?

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. Because I just. I cannot be trusted.

[George Camel]

I would agree.

[Ken Coleman]

I cannot be trusted. Even with.

[George Camel]

You're not a man of minutia.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm not.

[George Camel]

So digging into all the numbers. Let someone else figure.

[Ken Coleman]

Now you and a lot of our listeners can be trusted with Ramsey's Smart tax. This is 100 accurate tax software that saves you up to 80% compared to other popular softwares. It's powered by tax layer. So I mean, it's a big time.

[George Camel]

It's legit.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, Big time.

[George Camel]

They've been around for 50 years.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. And they've been there forever. But I just got to be honest. It's not for me because I got to have a tax pro.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

So you got these options. But for those who like to save even more and they just know you got to work.

[George Camel]

If you got a simple situation.

[Ken Coleman]

Simple. And you can do it.

[George Camel]

And it really does walk you through it in a way where even Ken Coleman could do it if he so chose.

[Ken Coleman]

If I chose. This is built for me. Ramsey Solutions.com SmartTax RamseySolutions.com SmartTax okay, let's get to. This is really fun. Sorry we missed your call.

[Caller]

Hello, my name is Chris.

[Ken Coleman]

I'm currently putting into a Roth IRA.

[Caller]

Right now or a 401K. And I just wanted to know the.

[Ken Coleman]

Difference between the pre tax and the.

[Caller]

After tax contributions to see if there's.

[Ken Coleman]

Any benefits of the pre tax and the non pre tax.

[Caller]

And just want to see if I can get some answers on that. Thank you and have a good day.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, thank you, Chris. I appreciate that. All right. What do you say, George?

[George Camel]

I. Well, first of all, I love that Chris could have googled this, but instead he called us. That really means a lot in a world that's going very digital, very AI. He went analog. He said, let's get some humans to answer this.

[Ken Coleman]

You know, I'm that kind of guy. I don't want to look that up. I want somebody to tell me, just.

[George Camel]

Tell me, just tell me. So here's the conversation. Pre tax versus after tax. So when you think about this, here's the way that makes it easy. When you see something like a traditional IRA, traditional 401k, just think pre tax.

[Ken Coleman]

That's right.

[George Camel]

Another way to say that is tax deferred.

[Ken Coleman]

And let's explain deferring. The tax money is coming out and going into the 401k account before you've Taken the taxes.

[George Camel]

Exactly.

[Ken Coleman]

So that's, that's why that is a benefit. And that's how that works.

[George Camel]

So that's a tax deferred account, like a 401k. So what's the benefit of going with the Roth option, like a Roth IRA, a Roth 401K, Roth 403B. If you see the word Roth, that means after tax. So in that case, think tax free, because I've already paid the taxes on that money up front. Uncle Sam doesn't need to get paid again. We're not going to double dip. So the benefit of that is that when you take that money out in retirement, let's say there's $2 million in a Roth 401K. Imagine that's $2 million of net income that you've already paid taxes on. That's what happens. So that's the beautiful benefit. Now, all things considered, if the tax rate stays exactly the same from right now until your retirement, it would be a wash. So if you have a 401k, that's traditional, you take money out, you're going to pay income taxes on that, but you got a tax deduction when you put the money in. Now with the Roth side, you already paid taxes on it up front, so you're losing out on that end because you're not getting a tax deduction, but you take the money out tax free. So the big discussion is, well, what if the tax rates change and we don't know. And so I, I don't like to wonder. I think tax rates will go up over time, not down. And so I'd rather pay the taxes now and just know that money is tax free for the rest of my life. There are some other benefits of the Roth side you can avoid required minimum distributions, RMDs. The reason they do this is because the government says, hey, Ken, you're 72, we got to get some of this tax money. You got to cash out your 401k to give us the money. But when you do the Roth side, Uncle Sam already got his cut, so there's no RMDs on that side. And if you leave an inheritance to your children, they're not going to have to pay taxes on that because it's already been paid.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So a lot of great benefits. We are Team Roth over here.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

But either way, I love this question because it means he's interested and he's investing.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I love that. Appreciate.

[George Camel]

It's a little bonus talk nerdy to me. I feel like it is.

[Ken Coleman]

But let's be honest. You're only a quick pivot in any call from talking nerdy.

[George Camel]

You're true. That's. I can make it. I could just.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Pivot at any moment.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I mean, that's just. It's. That's your nickname, George Talk nerdy. Timmy Camel, Amortization king. No. Ambassador of amortization.

[George Camel]

Thank you.

[Ken Coleman]

You got to have the alliteration to the regional manager. That's right. Exactly right.

[F]

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[George Camel]

In MLS ID 1591 in mlsconsumeraccess.org Equal Housing Lender, 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027.

[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show alongside George Camel. I am Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. And I'm told that Kristen is on the line in Erie, Pennsylvania and she's a baby steps millionaire. Caller, we love these. Kristen, how are you today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Hey, guys, can you hear me okay?

[Ken Coleman]

Loud and clear. Do I have the facts straight? Are you a baby steps millionaire? All right, tell us how much. What's your net worth?

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's approximately 1.25 million.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice. And can I ask you how old you are? It's not. Not polite to ask a lady how old you are unless it's this kind of format. But I'm still gonna ask.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, I'm at an age that I don't care anymore. I'm 55 and my husband's 58.

[Ken Coleman]

Come on.

[George Camel]

Love it.

[Ken Coleman]

Love it. So we got a 55 year old millionaire. Okay, fantastic. Very fun.

[George Camel]

Can you give us the breakdown of the 1.25.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Sure. I have approximately $689,200 in retirement, and that is broken up into a 403, two Roth IRAs and two traditional IRAs.

[George Camel]

Awesome. And what else?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I have a non retirement brokerage account with about $50,000. Checking account is about 1,000. I call it savings account. Very liquid. Number one is $4,400. And savings account number two, which is a high yield savings account, which is about 51,000. Our primary home is about worth about two and a quarter.

[Ken Coleman]

That's paid off.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, nice.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Everything's paid off.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

See, I have. I'm. I'm in the process of getting rid of my whole life policy. And once I do that, that will add in another $13,000. That's cash value.

[George Camel]

Good for you.

[Ken Coleman]

Wow, Way to go.

[George Camel]

And you guys have a couple cars, I imagine. Yeah, and those are paid off. What are those worth?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Those are paid off. We have an 09 Hyundai Sonata. That's probably worth about maybe 2,000 if I'm lucky.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I have a 2015 Jeep Patriot. I'm just gonna guess around 8,000.

[Ken Coleman]

So it sounds like the next step for you guys might be upgrading in vehicles because, boy, you did not sound excited. And I can't blame you. You know, that's. That Sonata gives you bad feelings.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I love my sonata. It has 198,000 miles on it and it runs real good.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, all right. Well, you actually acted differently, so I don't know.

[George Camel]

All right, hey, what's. What's your household income? What was your worst year as a couple? And best year?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, let's see. Worst year was $22,600.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And our, and then our best year, which was in 2024 was 126,000.

[George Camel]

Awesome. And any of this money was inherited?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let's see, I. I did inherit my parents home, which is worth 230,000, but we inherited it. We inherited it after we became millionaires.

[George Camel]

Oh, so it did not cause you to become a millionaire?

[Dr. John Deloney]

That is correct.

[George Camel]

Cool.

[Ken Coleman]

And degrees? You guys have degrees?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I have a bachelor's in education and a bachelor's in biology and my husband has a bachelor's in computer science.

[Ken Coleman]

Nice. How about that?

[George Camel]

And you guys both working in those fields still?

[Dr. John Deloney]

My husband never got into the field of computer science. He actually worked for an insurance agency.

[George Camel]

Cool. And how about you?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I am actually using both degrees. I spent about 23 years working as a medical technologist in a hospital laboratory and the medical technology school that I attended. I later became an instructor for so I kind of did both. And in 2018, I managed to land a management position that required my expertise.

[Ken Coleman]

Very nice.

[George Camel]

And you're both. You're doing that now full time?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Way to go.

[Ken Coleman]

Love it.

[George Camel]

So what would you attribute this wealth to? How did you guys do it before you hit 60?

[Dr. John Deloney]

So basically, I was thinking about the answer to this question, and basically, you have to have the right mindset first. You have to not care what anybody else thinks. You have to work hard. You have to have discipline. That's the first thing. You got to get your mindset first. And then the second step is going to be the KISS principle. Keep it simple, stupid. Pay yourself first, save first, save often, and save early.

[George Camel]

Love it. So how long have you guys been following the Ramsey plan now?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Actually, funny story. Well, not funny story, but back in 2017, my husband was diagnosed with partial seizure disorder, and he had to turn in his driver's license. So that was the same year my daughter went off to college. So I was the only driver in the family. Family. So we would carpool, you know, obviously to work and to doctor's appointments and everything. And, you know, it's boring sitting in a parking lot waiting for someone to come out of work. So I started flipping the radio station and lo and behold, I heard Dave on one of his rants, and I'm like, this is cool. So I listened to the show and podcast for about six months, and then we jumped on the plan. And then about a year later, after the circus came to town during that famous year, I joined every dollar to tighten everything up. So basically, we were already almost there. We kind of did Dave twisted instead of Dave.

[George Camel]

Yeah, you've been following some of the principles. And he went, oh, I like what this guy has to say. I align with a lot of this. We should just go all in on this plan.

[Ken Coleman]

Did you say Dave twisted?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Oh, I like that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because we.

[Ken Coleman]

It's like the twisted.

[George Camel]

You did some things out of order.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah. So.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not. Yeah, it's.

[George Camel]

We'll forgive you.

[Ken Coleman]

It's not. It's not your best beverage.

[George Camel]

Well, way to go. You guys are impressive.

[Ken Coleman]

Interesting. Really, really fun. I love the story here. Really love the story. All right. Can it be done? That's the question. Some young people out there, a Young Christians listening in. Why can it still be done?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, you just. You just have to have a mindset, and it doesn't matter how much you're saving, as long as you start early and put anything in. Whatever, you know, whatever can Save. You know, it. And I do have to add a little bit to my story. Fourteen years, I was part time. I didn't. I. Most of my career, I was part time. And we paid for private school for our daughter, preschool through college. We cash flowed. A wedding, you know, we did all that. And our average salary, I calculated it because I'm a math nerd. Sorry. Our average salary was like $69,000 throughout our life.

[George Camel]

Well, you're. You're proven it. Because our millionaire study found that one out of three millionaires in the. Out of the 10,000 of them never made six figures in their working career.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, we never made six figures until 2019.

[George Camel]

Wow. Way to go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Anybody, Anybody out there listening? You can't tell me you can't do it. Because if I can do it with all that stuff and all those circumstances, then you. You have no excuse.

[George Camel]

Yeah, a lot of life happened in between. And you guys cash flowed things. You just kept investing, got everything paid off. And not having debt, I mean, that changes the net worth equation. Assets minus liabilities. If you got no liabilities, you're all.

[Ken Coleman]

Yep, way to go, Kristen. Really, thank you for, for sharing your story with. I'll tell you, what she just said there at the end would make tick tock melt. You know what I mean? Because I see so much of the. Of these young people just literally freaking out because six figures isn't enough to live on. And so if I, if I can't live on that, no one could live on it. Then, you know, woe is me. The sky is falling. And here she is saying you don't even need to make six figures. So that's a very counter social media message, but it happens to be the truth.

[George Camel]

And you heard the mindset shift. If you can get this early on, not caring what other people think is a superpower in today's culture, I think.

[Ken Coleman]

It'S a superpower anytime.

[George Camel]

And yeah, they got it early. So the earlier you understand that the less you care about what people think, the more you run your own race. Building wealth at your pace instead of trying to run. Get rich quick. Impress your friends with the car you drive. Listen, nobody's impressed. Rolling up in the.09 Hyundai Sonata. It's worth $2,000, but who cares? She said it drives great. I got no problems with it. I'd rather put my money elsewhere.

[Ken Coleman]

She's not bragging about her car, but she's also sleeping really well at night.

[George Camel]

You know, I'll take that.

[Ken Coleman]

So how about that?

[George Camel]

There you go. A real baby Steps Millionaire. They're out there, folks. Are you the next one? I hope so.

[Ken Coleman]

By the way, I gotta come back to something. You said you dropped a dime on us and it was. It bears repeating. I think you said, run your own race. Build wealth at your pace. Oh, I don't know. You might have dropped a bar. I think the kids said you do.

[George Camel]

Inspire me just by proximity principle. I gain by bars.

[Ken Coleman]

That's all I'm gonna say. Good stuff.

[George Camel]

Quick break.

[Ken Coleman]

We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show.

[George Camel]

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[Dave Ramsey]

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[Ken Coleman]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So glad you are with us. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. 888-255-225 is the phone number. Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps? If you want to know, take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. All you got to do is head to the show notes, click on the link titled are you on track with the baby steps? And you can complete the quiz. That's a great little prompt and helper for you. All right, back to the phones we go. George is in Cincinnati, Ohio. George, how can we help?

[Caller]

Hey, how are you guys?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. What's going on today?

[Caller]

I'm a fourth year medical student. I'm going to graduate medical school in a couple of months and I have about $250,000 worth of student debt on me and I wanted to know if you think it would be A good idea. You know, I need to move to a residency. I'm starting residency in July and I need to move and I was wondering if you'd recommend buying a house instead of renting.

[Ken Coleman]

What's your, what are you going to be making in residency?

[Caller]

So I'm getting married. So my fiance will be making about $150,000 a year and I'll be making around $60,000 a year.

[Ken Coleman]

So 2 10. When are you getting married?

[Caller]

This May.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, so we call it 210 combined income soon enough. And does she have any debt?

[Caller]

No, that's the only debt we have. That's our all.

[George Camel]

Our combined debt is the 250.

[Ken Coleman]

What's the payment on that going to be?

[Caller]

It's kind of up in there right now because they're federal loans and it's unclear if they're going to, if income based repayment is going to be an option. But if, let's say we did, you know, the 25 year repayment plan, that'd be around $2,000 a month.

[George Camel]

25 years, dude, you're gonna be geriatric by then.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's true. I mean the 10 year repayment plan is I think 3300.

[George Camel]

Okay, well, here's the deal. Are you new to the program, new to the show?

[Caller]

I've been listening for the past couple of weeks. So relatively new? Yes.

[George Camel]

Awesome. So there's a time and place where we recommend buying a house and only then. And that's when you're completely debt free with an emergency fund and a solid down payment. And even then the parameter would be 25% of your take home pay going toward that mortgage on a 15 year fixed rate loan. So would I recommend a guy who has a quarter million in debt, go into more debt and become a homeowner as he becomes a newlywed and leaves med school into residency? No. But the good news is you guys are going to be making great money and their trajectory is so high that you're going to be a homeowner before you know it. But I would rent for a few years. Think about this. Could you, out of the 210, could you throw a hundred thousand of that? Live like you're broke? Throw it at the student loan debt?

[Caller]

I probably could, yeah.

[George Camel]

If you rented cheaply as newlyweds, this is the greatest phase because nobody cares that you're broke when you're newlyweds. And if you do that, you'll be debt free in two and a half years without your income going up.

[Ken Coleman]

Now see, that's Exciting, George.

[George Camel]

So then a year later you have an emergency fund and a down payment.

[Ken Coleman]

And what are you projected to make.

[Caller]

After? Residence after. So it's a five year training program and starting is around 400 to 450.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, imagine that timeline, George's timeline that he just gave you, and then you come into making 400 G's. I mean, that's. How's that feel? Yeah, no, no, I didn't. How does it feel? Have you actually. Oh, like think about that for a second.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ken Coleman]

As opposed to the 25 year plan.

[Caller]

I mean, the only reason I think about the 25 year plan is just to lower interest.

[Ken Coleman]

I know why you did it. You're trying to lower the monthly payment. I get it. But my point is George just gave you a two year plan.

[Caller]

Yeah, that's true.

[George Camel]

So here's the deal. All of your friends around you are going to think you're crazy for aggressively paying off your student loans. They're going to go, hey, I'm just going to die with this, or hey, I'm going to make great money one day. Not really worried about the loans. I want to live my life. I've been in med school for too long. I'm at resident, I'm a doc now. I want to get a nice house, I want to get a nice car. You're going to see that all around you. This lifestyle creep that happens in the medical world. And let me tell you, my whole family's in the medical world. And so this happens. And if you're not careful, you will be like the other doctors, broke, stressed out, going, man, I make 400 grand, I don't know where any of it goes. It just disappears every single month. Or you could go against the grain, aggressively pay off your debt, buy a house, pay that off aggressively, and then be making half a million dollar household income with zero payments. And when you're burnt out one day you just retire and go, I'm done. I'm going to do something else. I'm gonna go volunteer. I'm gonna go do some overseas, you know, dock work. And that I think will free you if you follow that plan instead of do what everyone else is doing. And I understand that's controversial.

[Ken Coleman]

Yeah, I love it. I think that's great. Let's, let's see, we get Alexander in here in Colorado Springs. Alexander, how can we help?

[Caller]

How you doing today?

[Ken Coleman]

Good. How are you, sir?

[Caller]

I'm alive and healthy, so just working on the wealthy.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay. All right. All right.

[George Camel]

That was good.

[Ken Coleman]

You pulled that One out. It was a little melancholy. And then you gave me some positivity at the end and rescued that. That was great. What's your question? We've got about. We got about three minutes. What's our. What's your question?

[Caller]

Okay, so I'm in dent in debt and I want to get out of debt. And I have options. I'm currently in the life insurance industry and I have two jobs that I can choose from because I'm looking at changing industries.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay.

[Caller]

And I was just wondering which one's the smarter way to go to help me get out of debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, give me A and B.

[Caller]

So A is. So A is working with my father. So my dad works and he's a very successful person and it'd be working for him as an employee. I'd be getting $2,500 at first in draws. I'd be a sales rep. I don't like that option too much because I don't want to owe my dad money.

[Ken Coleman]

All right, well, let's stop talking about it. What's B?

[Caller]

B is going and doing door to door pest control, sales. I used to do it for a lot. A long time. And I stopped last year. And then I was considering getting back in because I was offered a good opportunity.

[Ken Coleman]

So you've got an opportunity on the table, an offer to get back into that.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Ken Coleman]

What are you going to make or what can you make in that role?

[Caller]

So my first year with a worse offer, I made 40,000 in four months. This offer being realistic, I think I can make at least 45 to 50,000 in four months. It's just hard work. Obviously.

[Ken Coleman]

Now why is it only four months?

[Caller]

That's just how the pest control industry works. You go and work and knock doors for four, five months at most, and then you go home and they pay you all your money.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, but what are you doing the rest of the eight months a year?

[Caller]

Well, the eight months a year, that's what I was considering. I could either continue and work and recruit and build my team or I could get another job in that time, and that's kind of how it would go.

[Ken Coleman]

Okay, how much debt do you have?

[Caller]

So I actually have it written out here. I did take time to do that. I have about 14,000 in debt.

[Ken Coleman]

Well, I think this is pretty straightforward, George Alexander. You give us two options. You don't even like option A, so I automatically usually lean with the person because there's good reasons. You don't want to. You don't like the job. Doesn't seem like it's going to pay as much as option B, the pest control. Is that true as well?

[Caller]

To an extent. So to be super clear about what it would be with my dad, I'd be kind of starting something new with him. It's selling life insurance again, but corporate life insurance. So the payout really just depends on how I perform. But I don't know how I would perform on that. And it could be anywhere between six months to a year before I get my first sale.

[George Camel]

Oh, well, yikes. I'm gonna take option B.

[Ken Coleman]

Let's go option B. I feel great about that.

[George Camel]

Aggressively. I'm gonna use that four months to get aggressive, to build yourself a financial foundation. So, yeah, I'd get rid of the debt, get an emergency fund. Once this four months is up, you've got a great financial foundation. You need to find like a career. And so I'm gonna give you Ken's book, if that's okay with Ken.

[Ken Coleman]

It is.

[George Camel]

Find the work.

[Ken Coleman]

Find the work you're wired to do. It's got an assessment in it. I want you to take the assessment and then read the book. It's only 45 minute read. Tells you what to do with your assessors because you need to be figuring out in the short term what to do in those other eight months. I like what you threw out there. When I hear someone say, I want to build my team, I like that. I like the sound of that. If that means mo money for you, so. But, but let's also be thinking, anybody who likes going door to door selling pest control services, my man, you're a freak. And I mean that in a good way because that is. That is somebody who can handle rejection, George. And that person is unstoppable. So I gotta say, Alexander, you figure out what you really want to be selling. A product or a service that you can get fired up about. And my man, you're going to be very wealthy with that ability to handle rejection like you can. I mean, you're. You're something else. So get after it, young man. Get after it. I love it. All right, George Campbell. Great hour. Always fun to be with you. I want to thank James Childs, our fearless leader and our hearty, hearty crew of men behind the glass that keep us on the air. Thank you, America. This is the Ramsey Show.