It’s Time to Grow Up and Own Your Life

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ramsey Show – "It’s Time to Grow Up and Own Your Life"

Release Date: May 16, 2025

In this episode of The Ramsey Show, host George Camel and his co-host Dr. John Deloney tackle various financial and personal challenges submitted by listeners. The episode, titled "It’s Time to Grow Up and Own Your Life," delves into topics such as setting financial boundaries with family, recovering from financial scams, managing finances in blended families, and planning for future financial stability. Below is a detailed summary of each key discussion, complete with notable quotes and timestamps.

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1. Setting Financial Boundaries with an Abusive Parent

Caller: Laura from New York City
Timestamp: 00:42 – 07:22

Issue:
Laura grapples with the moral dilemma of providing financial support to her abusive mother, who has historically been financially irresponsible. Raised in a Christian environment, she feels obligated to honor her parents despite the negative impact on her and her siblings.

Discussion & Advice:
Dr. John Deloney emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries and clarifying what honoring her mother truly means. Instead of unconditionally providing money, Laura is encouraged to have an honest conversation about her limitations and the need for boundaries to maintain her well-being.

Notable Quotes:

• [02:55] Dr. John Deloney: "There is no path forward for you that's not going to be uncomfortable."
• [03:19] Dr. John Deloney: "Honor does not mean you have to do whatever somebody else tells you to do forever and ever."
• [07:18] Dr. John Deloney: "Honoring doesn't always mean everyone's gonna like you."

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2. Recovering from a Financial Scam Targeting Retirement Funds

Caller: Mark from Burlington, Vermont
Timestamp: 10:26 – 17:18

Issue:
Mark fell victim to a sophisticated online scam, believing he was assisting NASCAR driver Denny Hamlin. This led to substantial withdrawals from his 401(k), resulting in a significant loss of retirement funds.

Discussion & Advice:
George Camel and Dr. John Deloney express empathy and stress the importance of rebuilding Mark's financial foundation. They advise focusing on creating an emergency fund and investing consistently to secure his financial future, rather than obsessing over recovering the lost funds.

Notable Quotes:

• [16:00] Dr. John Deloney: "You have 150 grand."
• [17:21] George Camel: "If you have the money to do something, go for it, but at this point, focus on rebuilding."
• [17:18] Dr. John Deloney: "Sometimes the next right move is scary and really hard too."

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3. Managing Finances in a Blended Family

Caller: Rebecca from Maryland
Timestamp: 45:07 – 72:25

Issue:
Rebecca struggles with saving for her biological children’s futures while feeling resentful about not contributing equally to her stepchildren's accounts. Her husband’s ex-wife does not assist financially, placing the burden primarily on Rebecca.

Discussion & Advice:
Dr. John Deloney and George Camel highlight the importance of equitable financial planning in blended families. They advise prioritizing the financial well-being of all children in the household and open communication with her husband to establish a fair financial strategy that benefits everyone involved.

Notable Quotes:

• [68:36] Dr. John Deloney: "Pay your house off. The greatest gift you could give your kids is a regulated dad."
• [71:01] George Camel: "It's brutal because you want to just solve it all with a math problem, but there's so much that just comes down to deep work of having really hard conversations."
• [72:13] Dr. John Deloney: "You don't have to walk in already wincing to a conversation. That points to a bigger challenge in your marriage, beyond finances."

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4. Financial Planning for Young Couples with High Debt and New Home Purchase

Caller: Eli from Huntsville, Alabama
Timestamp: 77:15 – 87:09

Issue:
Eli and his fiancée, both 21, are preparing for marriage with $30,000 saved but face challenges managing high student loans and a new mortgage without a down payment. They are considering whether to prioritize debt repayment or further education to enhance income potential.

Discussion & Advice:
George Camel and Dr. John Deloney strongly advise against delaying debt repayment for further education. They emphasize tackling existing debts first to achieve financial peace, suggesting that additional income streams or budget adjustments can later facilitate educational pursuits.

Notable Quotes:

• [77:47] Dr. John Deloney: "Please don't do that. Please, please, please, please, please."
• [82:14] Dr. John Deloney: "Solve today's problems today. And today's problems are your kids need a focused present, dad on all fours, wrestling with them on the ground."
• [86:15] George Camel: "You are stunting your financial growth and future by being quote unquote indebted to your friend."

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5. Strategies for Saving for Children’s Future in a Stepmother Role

Caller: Laura from Colorado Springs
Timestamp: 55:07 – 72:25

Issue:
Laura, a stepmother, is concerned about saving for her biological children’s futures while not contributing similarly to her stepchildren. She faces resistance from her husband’s ex-wife and feels the financial strain is unfair.

Discussion & Advice:
The hosts recommend prioritizing the financial needs of all children in the household and establishing joint financial goals with her husband. They stress the importance of treating stepchildren equitably to maintain harmony and fairness within the family structure.

Notable Quotes:

• [68:36] Dr. John Deloney: "This whole thing is just gross and messy. And I guess the thing that's sitting with me not right is at the end of the day, the adults in this scenario are acting like kids."
• [70:10] Dr. John Deloney: "The greatest gift you could give these kids is a mom who's got a group of women in her life that she goes and has fun with and laughs with and gets out of that crazy house and she has a community."
• [71:42] George Camel: "What's the number? Is it a hundred dollars? Four hundred."

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, George Camel and Dr. John Deloney provide compassionate yet straightforward financial advice tailored to each caller's unique situation. The overarching theme emphasizes personal responsibility, setting clear financial boundaries, and prioritizing long-term financial stability over short-term fixes. Notable insights include the importance of honest communication in blended families, the necessity of rebuilding financial foundations after scams, and the critical balance between saving for the future and managing existing debts.

Final Notable Quote:

• [72:25] George Camel: "It's brutal because you want to just solve it all with a math problem, but there's so much that just comes down to deep work of having really hard conversations."

This episode reinforces the show's core message: taking control of one's financial life requires tough decisions, clear boundaries, and a commitment to long-term planning.

Transcript

[Unknown Speaker]

Foreign.

To you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today.

[George Camel]

From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by my very best friend, Dr. John Deloney. And we are here for you, America, taking Your calls at 888-825. Whatever's going on in your life, we'll talk about it. We'll help you take the right next step. Laura is going to kick us off in New York City. How can we help today? Laura, hi.

[Laura]

Thank you so much for having me on the show.

[George Camel]

Absolutely.

[Laura]

Okay, so my question is, should I do I have a moral obligation to give my mom money when she was abusive to me and my siblings and historically not financially responsible?

[Dr. John Deloney]

You framed that really heavy, like moral responsibility. Where does the weight of that come from?

[Laura]

I think it comes from I grew up in a Christian church, and I still am. I still follow Christianity.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so hold on. What's the. What's the directive there?

[Laura]

Well, I want to do the right thing.

[George Camel]

Well, what's the word?

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's the directive in Scripture?

[George Camel]

Oh, I can think of one where it starts with an H. Yes.

[Laura]

Yeah. Honor your father and mother. And then there's also verse in, like, Matthew 15 where Jesus is telling the Pharisees, you're giving your money to the church, but you won't even help your parents. And then the other reason for that moral obligation factor is my two of my siblings really think it is morally our job to give my mom money. And we recently had a sibling conversation because she just keeps asking us all for money. And two of my siblings kind of just give her whatever she asks for. And then me and one of my other siblings are not really feeling that. And so we're kind of under this place where it's awkward in our personal relationship, where they think we are morally wrong for not agreeing to just give my mom whatever she asks for.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So what you're hoping to do here is to find a way that your abusive mother and your enabling brother or two siblings don't make you feel uncomfortable. Maybe the greatest gift George and I could give you today is there's no path forward for you that's not going to be uncomfortable. And so using discomfort as the barometer for what's a right move and what's a not right move is the wrong barometer.

[Laura]

Right. I can feel that I cannot be objective about this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, so can you. Can you. Is it honoring your mother to continue to feed to Hand her cash that she is going to use to make herself less and less and less. Well.

[Laura]

Well, I mean, no, no.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[Laura]

I don't know. She's 270.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or is honoring her. Is honoring your mother having a honest, direct conversation about boundaries, about if you want my money and I'll be willing to help in this particular way, then so be it. Or is honoring saying honestly and with integrity, I'm still too hurt from how we grew up. And at this time. Not that I can't, because that's not honest. I'm choosing to not give you cash.

[Laura]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You know what I'm saying? Honor does not mean you have to do whatever somebody else tells you to do forever and ever. Amen. Regardless of. That's not what honoring means.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But also, sometimes honoring is uncomfortable.

[Laura]

Yeah, that's. I can't even imagine how that conversation would go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right, Right.

[George Camel]

Can we play out the other side where you actually give your mother this money and you become resentful because you know it's not the right thing to do and you're not cheerfully giving. You're going, oh, my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing this to this person who hurt me in this way, who's been financially irresponsible. That's going to eat you alive. Isn't.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And every time she calls you, you hate that she's calling. That is dishonoring.

[George Camel]

And you hate that your siblings guilted you into this.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So I don't. I'm just kind of painting a picture of both worlds where we have the hard conversation and say no, and we feel better about it and it doesn't consume us versus the other side, which is, all right, I guess I'll do this. It's the last thing I want to do, and I don't feel good about it. And this is not being a good steward of my money and my wealth, but I'm going to do it anyways.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And let's ask that question, because we get that George and I get that a lot. Do. Do you even have the money to give her?

[Laura]

Well, no.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Period. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Yeah, you don't have the money.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Now, what will your siblings say when you say, hey, even if I wanted to, I don't have the money?

[Laura]

Well, yeah, they've said you could just make more lifestyle changes and just come up with money, which we already live on one income, have kids.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can't your mom do that, too?

[Laura]

Yeah. Yeah, I know. That's how I feel like now, if you don't give.

[George Camel]

Is it on the siblings? Are they going to have to take on more and they're still going to do this regardless of what you do?

[Laura]

Yeah, that's kind of. I think that's the rub is I know it makes my siblings finances harder.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Because if I don't, they're not true. Not true. Your siblings choose to make their situations challenging because they are choosing to still try to find a way for their to have a relationship with their mom. And at this point, the only path towards a relationship with her is you give me cash. So they are making choices too.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

They're choosing a transactional relationship.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Because they feel better that way. And just the same, you get to choose. And if you would feel better not giving and setting that boundary, that's a path to go down.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But here I say again, there is no path you can take that is not going to be uncomfortable or that.

[George Camel]

Fixes any of this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Someone's gonna be upset.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Your siblings aren't gonna like you. Your mom, I don't know how she feels at this point. I don't think it's gonna fix anything whether you give her money or not.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or you're gonna feel really guilty because you can't solve this problem for everybody. And you've probably been in charge of solving all of your family's problems since you were a little bitty girl, right?

[Laura]

Yep.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

What's your next financial goal.

[Laura]

Right now? Financial goal is to probably get enough money in savings that we could purchase like an investment property.

[George Camel]

So you guys are in a decent place financially of no debt. A fully funded emergency fund is part of this financial progress. Because of your past, did you kind of run the other way and said, I don't ever want to be a burden financially to my family.

[Laura]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because my parents kind of train wrecked their finances from. I watched that and it made me want to go. I'm going to be really responsible. I'm not going to have any debts. I'm going to work hard and live under my means and all that.

[George Camel]

So you're changing your family tree. That's a pretty cool way to honor your mother and father is to leave a different legacy.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And honoring doesn't always mean everyone's gonna like you.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think you're on the right path, Laura. I think you. We. We can't make this call for you, but it sounds like, you know, the next right move. And sometimes the next right move is scary and really hard too.

[Unknown Speaker]

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[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Jordan Camel here with Dr. John DeLoney. Mark is up next in Burlington, Vermont. Mark, welcome to the Ramsey Show. How can John and I help today?

[Mark]

Hi, I, I friended somebody on Facebook who I thought was NASCAR driver Denny Hamlin. And we developed a friendship and it quickly turned financial and I thought it was Denny Hamlin. And it came all about my money. And I ended up doing like six quantity $500 gift cards. And I was told that he had a briefcase stuck in customs and his documentation to get it inside the United States expired. So I ended up doing a withdrawal on my 401k and killed my IBM 401k. And then it kept being held in customs and I ended up doing more loans on my other global foundries 401k. And I lost like a hundred thousand dol.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh man, I'm sorry, dude.

[George Camel]

That's awful. I'm so sorry, Mark.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know it didn't make you feel any better, but people get people getting scammed right and left all over, all over the world, man. I'm sorry.

[George Camel]

And it's smart people too. So the easiest thing to fall for is, well, I'm just a big idiot. It could happen to anyone. These scams these days are getting so sophisticated that the smartest people out there are still falling for this stuff. And I'm sorry that you were the next victim. When did you realize that this was a scam?

[Mark]

It was later on. This happened like February. It started February of last year and it started out with like five or six, six $500 gift cards. And from there it went to him, seeing his documentation to get his stuff inside the US expired and then it went to his bank, was dragging his feet and he needed to have me do another loan. And I just.

[George Camel]

How did you send all this money?

[Mark]

It was by a cashier's check and I sent it to place in, I believe in Virginia. In Virginia. And I had the police. No, it was in Arkansas. Sorry, Arkansas. And I had the police in Arkansas looking at it. I called the US Secret Service, I called the FBI, I called the state police, I called Barry police. And you name it, I called it. And one by one everybody just left me. And my lawyer said that I needed to have a different type of lawyer. My lawyer was helping me out for quite a while and then my other lawyer has not really gotten back in touch with me, so.

[George Camel]

Well, let's pretend that there's a worst case scenario where we just have lost this money and we have to rebuild. Where are you at today?

[Mark]

I just barely looked at my 401k and I thought that I had. I thought originally it was like 200,000, which to me was. All right, concern. It's just me because I'm divorced.

[George Camel]

How old are you?

[Mark]

And then I am 54.

[George Camel]

Okay.

[Mark]

And I looked at my balance as of today and it was 146,321. So it's not 100,000 like I thought it was, it's 146.

[George Camel]

Okay. Do you have any debt today?

[Mark]

No. The only thing I do, I pay $1,000 for rent and that's heat, hot water, utilities, trash, recycle. And then I pay $60 for phone and then I paid like $50 a month for Wi Fi and that's it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good.

[George Camel]

So you have low expenses. What do you make a year?

[Mark]

I make about 60,000 a year. My pay per hour is 2471.

[George Camel]

Okay, so how can we help today?

[Mark]

I'm scared and I'm fearful and I'm wondering what to do.

[George Camel]

What are you scared of specifically?

[Mark]

Finances. Worrying how I'm going to afford things. What happens when I need a car? How do I get my money back that I lost?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I think you have to go in when everything feels overwhelming. I think you have to go in a particular order and go slower than you think. Here's what I mean. In your guts, you want vengeance. You want to find out who hurt you, who weaponized what you thought was a new friendship. Especially on the back end of a divorce when things are tough. Somebody weaponized what I think is the most sacred thing and that's a relationship. And. And then inside that relationship, somebody asked you for help. And you're the kind of guy that helps. And that hurts, man.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Mark]

And I feel like. I feel like I was financially raped.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's fair enough. And so you want to go get all that money back. Your car transmission doesn't care about that. And so while this. I want to get it back. I want to find the guy I'm calling all the people. Like, that's like, front and center in your guts. You feel that really heavy. When we're hurt like this, and it feels overwhelming. It's important to feel that feeling and then go do the next right thing. And in your case, we just got to start again financially. And it sounds caustic, but there's not another option. And so here's the good. Here's the good news. You have 150 grand.

[Mark]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You didn't wipe it out. So we're going to start building the back. We're going to get an emergency fund built up. So we have. We're our own bank. And so when our car goes, we're not going to. We're going to be a couple of years away from getting the big, nice truck we wanted. Cool. We're going to be able to have money in the account just in case we need to go get a new Camry. Great. Cool. Problem solved. Onto the next one. Onto the next one. And then in the background, we'll do what we can. I don't know. I mean, the chances that you get this money back are very, very, very slim.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

What I don't want is for this to consume you. Obviously, it already has. But for the next 10 years, you're just on this hunt in this search. And over time, it becomes more and more apparent it's not going to happen. And so I also don't want you to waste your time kind of chasing, going down this rabbit trail all for nothing. I'd rather you spend that time rebuilding than recovering. And so we can rebuild. You might have to work a few years longer than you wanted to. You're 54. I just crunched some numbers for you. If you just invested 15% of that $60,000 income, never got a raise, but you'd have to work till 70. You could have a million dollars in that 401k and retire with dignity, especially if you keep your expenses low. So I'm not worried that you're going to, like, just go completely broke. I'm more worried about Mark as a person, emotionally and physically.

[Mark]

Thank you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can I give you, like, a homework assignment?

[Mark]

Kind of, yeah. So I Know how you guys pay the jumpstart and go and pay off one bill and then do a snowball and go after the next bill? So a friend offered to pay off my small loan that I have.

[George Camel]

I thought you said you had no debt.

[Mark]

Well, no, I. Those loans that I took out on my 401k, I have two loans on my 401k that I took out.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And how much are they?

[Mark]

Let's see. One is. One is like 19,000 and the others like 3,000.

[George Camel]

Okay, so is that your. All of your loans and debt? To be clear, you don't have any credit card debt, no car debt, just the 401k loans.

[Mark]

That's it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I would not put money between you and yet another relationship.

[Mark]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so your friend is awesome. He's just like you. He's a guy who shows up and helps, wants to help, and you've tried that before, and you put money between you and what you thought was a friend and it went sideways. I would recommend not doing that. But I would also recommend you double click on that friendship because he's the kind of guy that will show up in the middle of the night to help you out. Yes. Pretty cool. And then say, hey, man, I love you. This is one I got to work through. Because part of your healing will be in the sweat equity of earning that $3,000.

[Mark]

This guy is probably one of the most godliest people I've ever met in my life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's awesome. That's awesome. I would recommend not taking that money. Even though it feels like an easy solution. I would recommend saying, hey, thank you. You prove like you. You showed up in the night for me, and I'm grateful, but I want to work this one off. It's going to be my sweat tax. It's going to be my reminder to never get into an online relationship like that again. To never. I don't loan money to friends. I might give it to you, but I got to look you in the eye before I hand it to you, right?

[Mark]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Could you throw 3, 600 bucks a month toward these 401k loans if you got scrappy?

[Mark]

Could I do that?

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Mark]

No, I am.

[George Camel]

How much could you throw at it?

[Mark]

I am. I am so broke that I can't do hardly anything.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I.

[Mark]

What I'm doing right now is I anticipated having to owe like 8, 880, 300 on the taxes from last year that is in debt.

[George Camel]

And hang on the line, Mark. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It's going to walk you step by step through this, but it's going to take getting more income and cutting expenses and getting rid of this debt. Wishing you the best man.

[Unknown Speaker]

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[George Camel]

Welcome back. If you're a fan of the show, take a second hit the subscribe button, Leave a review, share it with a friend. It means more than you know and you don't know the impact that that can have. And I just got a great story from the Ramsey baby steps community on Facebook. Mike dropped in this story about this lady. I don't know her name, it's not listed here, but here's the story. She said, I lost my job in March. I'm 56. They dragged me into HR with no notice, no warning, nothing and laid me off. I was pretty upset about it. But here's the thing. Dave saved me. I will never make it to the show but I want everyone to know to keep going. I have a paid for house. It is small but it's all mine. A paid for reliable and great car, no debt at all and $450,000 in the bank. When I found Dave I was $20,000 in credit card debt and had no savings whatsoever. I've been single my whole life so it has always been just one Sal. Always well below $100,000. Anyway, I'm sort of happy about the job loss now and on to better things. I know Dave will never read this but if he does, I want him to know he saved my life and my future. Well, we did read it and I'm sure Dave will as well. And can we just say this out loud? Dave didn't save your life. I'M glad that he gave you the hope and some tools, but you did this. You did all this hard work. And what a great testament to the Ramsey plan. Just to show people, hey, it's easy when life is going your way, but when it doesn't, are you prepared?

[Dr. John Deloney]

And here's the frustrating, heartbreaking truth about life. There's big swaths of our lives where things are not going our way. And that's why it's important to do the things that are hard and annoying and frustrating, like saving money, like not getting the newest car, whatever. It's important to do those things along the way so that when life hits, you're ready to rock and roll. Right. And it ends up. I love how this ends. I'm sort of happy about the job loss. Now I'm on to better things. We. We never realize until we have to that often the best things in life are on the other side of fear. Almost always. And so, I mean, sometimes on the other side of fear is that cancer was real. Right. Sometimes the other side of fear is like, your kid's not coming home. Like, there's. There's truth to that. But also on the other side of fear is I thought this job was everything to me, and it's not. It's awesome.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And now I can go do some things I want to do with my one precious life and all that and all that. We keep talking about it, but. And George, I've. I've become. I don't know, it's like a light switch that flipped to me about two weeks ago. I've almost become obsessed now with being a flashlight in a world that is just insistent on everything's coming down, and I don't know how to even do that Right. But I've just become obsessed. And I think I'm gonna start reading these kind of stories over and over and over again because it's easy just to keep reading the news channels and listening to the. And then you just hear about this amazing woman who, in the dark, just plugs away and plugs away and plugs away. And then life happens and she's like, you know what? Actually, my life's better now.

[George Camel]

I was ready.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Pretty awesome.

[George Camel]

You kind of built your own insurance plan for your entire financial life.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's right.

[George Camel]

By following this stuff. So thank you all for sharing it. Leaving the reviews, hitting the subscribe button, telling your friends, texting the link. It all matters. Danielle is up next in Tulsa, Oklahoma. How can we help Danielle? What's going on, John?

[Laura]

I sure need that Flashlight right now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, come on. Bring it on, y' all.

[Laura]

I'm so done with debt. I'm getting married in a week and a half, and my fiance is on board for us getting out of this mess, but I'm having problems getting him to be intense with our money, be intense with the plant moving forward with the plan, and I just need help lighting a fire under them.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Can I ask you a personal, personal question, just between me and you and a couple million people?

[Laura]

Sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Have you ever been told in your life that you are, quote, unquote, a lot?

[Laura]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Have you ever been told, like, hey, sh.

[Laura]

Not very often when you were little? Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. Here's why I'm asking that. Don't change a thing about you, okay? But often you're. You're heading into a humongous life transition. Is that fair?

[Laura]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you're nervous and excited and cannot wait and, oh, my gosh, what am I doing?

[Laura]

All of it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes. Okay. There's no possible way anybody that you would choose to marry unless you were clinically insane would be able to match your level of intensity right now. And in fact, probably the reason you love this guy is because he's a walking Xanax for you. Fair.

[Laura]

You nailed it. You nailed it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. Okay, so don't mistake his calm. I'm in. I'm in. Let's do a budget together. Let's. First, let's get through this wedding together. Let's get through this honeymoon together. Then I'm in. Don't mistake that steady presence for, he doesn't love me. He doesn't want this like I do. Don't do that to him. Okay. And also, by the way, when he. On Friday night, when he says, let's just stay in and he married you because you'll go, no, we're going dancing and we're gonna go horseback riding first, and then we're gonna jump out of a plane. That's why I married you. Fair.

[Laura]

It's actually the opposite. He's the one that wants to go out and do everything. I want to stay home.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's quite fair. Your body's tired by Friday night. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Your body's like, what actual conversations have happened. What words has he used when you talk about this debt payoff plan? Because you said you're like, he's in, but he doesn't have the intensity that I do.

[Laura]

Yeah. Part of it's because he's been broken down for so long. We've been going through a lot. We've been together 14 years and in the last probably two years, things have got really intense. We've had a lot of big life changes. And this last job that he took has just been, was just kind of out of necessity and it's kind of a dead end job. So one of the big things that needs to happen is he needs to get a job somewhere else. But I think life is just kind of bummed him down a little bit.

[George Camel]

To where he's lost his mojo. He wants some purpose. He wants to feel like he's doing the right things and spending his energy on the right things. And he's just sort of floundering right now, which makes sense why he's not like, yeah, we're going to get out of debt. He's got some foundation to build right now of just getting his income and getting it stable and doing some work that he enjoys doing and becoming a provider now to a wife. That's a lot of life change. And I think once he gets the stability and finds that purpose, he'll, the fire will be lit.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you may try to light that fire for him. I would recommend not doing that.

[Laura]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You may come in and be like, all right, I got 14 job opportunities. I heard Dan's hiring over there. And if he does that, you know.

[Laura]

Who else does that, that to our, you know, listening to our conversations?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I, I know. You know, you know who did that to him? His mom. His mom did that?

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so let's don't be mom, but let's do, let's do have this. Can we agree on a dollar amount that we have to have in this house for us to A, survive and B, pay off this debt? Yeah, I can agree to that. All right, I'm earning 3,000 of that. Then the other 3,000 you're on with. You're on, you're on board for. And that's our covenant, that's our commitment, and that's our spit shake and that's our, I swear. And it might be a quote unquote dead end job, but if it's helping your forward, it's not dead end.

[Laura]

Right. The reason why I say it's a dead end job is because, you know, the benefits are terrible, he has no option for overtime and he's being paid pretty low for what field he's in.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's cool. So it's not forever, but if it's serving a purpose, then let's, let's honor the integrity of work and let's go find something else. But he's got to feel that sense in that pull. And that sense, in that pull is not going to come from you harassing him and beating him down. It's also not going to come from you throwing 40 different options and ideas. Is like. And that's just like his mom saying, will you wear this and fix that? Fix your hair? Why are you doing that? Have you brushed your teeth yet? Like, he doesn't need that either. And at the other side, he needs a goal and he needs his wife to look across the table and say, I'm trusting you to go get your $3,000 this month. And then we'll begin to look for the career and the job and all that kind of stuff. Does that make sense?

[Laura]

Yes. Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Not to over existentialize it. Let's start with small baby goals and.

[George Camel]

Put some facts on paper. You know, you guys get back from the honeymoon, let's make our first budget. Let's see what our total income is going to be. What's the take home pay? What's our total debt? How much extra can we throw at this thing? And then we can figure out how to light the fire and go, hey, what if we could do this in six months instead of eight? What would that take?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Or, hey, you can't get overtime in this particular job you have right now. And I know you're putting out applications. Cool. You've got dinner. For the next 60 days, I'm going to work as many overtime hours because now us and us, or me and me is now we, we're going to do this together. It's us. Now that makes sense.

[Laura]

Okay. Yes, it does. Thank you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Guys, hang on the line. We're gonna hook you up with GPU as a wedding gift. And that's because me and George like weddings.

[George Camel]

Plus, it's better getting it from us than someone attending the wedding, you know?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Could be an awkward gift.

[George Camel]

Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yes, I have, George. Sketchy. And never trust them.

[George Camel]

And that's why we recommend delete me. They help with that.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, they do. Delete me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs.

[George Camel]

And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find.

[Unknown Speaker]

So much.

[George Camel]

But delete me will delete your data, hence the name. It's gone. They'll wipe it out for you so you can sleep easy.

[Unknown Speaker]

That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful.

[George Camel]

Get this. So far they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible.

[Unknown Speaker]

Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it.

[George Camel]

I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to JoinDeleteMe.com Ramsey that comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable.

[Unknown Speaker]

Again, that's joins late me.com Ramsey make sure to check it out. You guys.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Foreign.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George campbell joined by Dr. John Deloney. The number to call is 888-255-225. Listen, buying or selling your home, it's, it's a big deal. And between the clickbait headlines, confusing data, it's tough to know what's actually going on in the housing market. So we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Here they are. Median home prices went up slightly last month to about 430,000 DOL on the market, nearly a million, which is the highest since 2019. So we have an increase in supply, but in a lot of areas, it's still not enough to meet buyer demand. The average 15 year fixed rate rose to 5.9% last month and it's still under 6%. So if you're financially ready, a small rate increase shouldn't hold you back from buying a home you love. That's not the difference maker here. So to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, head to ramseysolutions.com marketing or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube, Riley is up next in Springfield, Missouri. What's going on, Riley?

[Riley]

Hey, what's going on?

[George Camel]

How's it going? How can we help today?

[Riley]

So I am 28 years old. My wife is 31. She's a stay at home mom. We have two sons, five and three years old. I am, we are on baby. Six six, by the way. We are in the middle of a debacle with our budget, I'm trying to make sure I free up enough fun money for her because OB, obviously staying at home is staying at home. It's absolutely miserable for the mother. It's great that she can do that, but it is very tough on her. And so I want to make sure that I leave enough aside in our budget for her to have fun as well as continue to save, you know, for our retirement and everything. Everything else we're doing 15% like it's like we're supposed to into Roth IRA. I have a pension, a union pension, and then I have a simple IRA that I get 3% match on through my employer. I grow 70,000 a year. Now I want to put $200 a month per son into a money market maybe, I don't know, to save for them to have a down payment on a house. With the way that houses house prices are increasing, I am scared they're going to not have enough capital to be able to buy as young as I was able to. And I don't think, I don't know if the money market is a better outer to put it in our Roth IRA and just pull out contributions when that time comes. I'm trying to avoid gift and all this other stuff for him to try to make it as streamlined as possible. And you guys can tell me what you think because $400 a month is 83,000 some change after 18 years. So I'm a little conflicted as to what to do.

[George Camel]

Whoo, man, what a party it is at Riley's house. Yeah, you're like me. You're kind of like the nerdy dad who like wants to do everything the right way and have all the I's dotted and t's, t's crossed. And you want your wife to have the fun.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Money is your ideal romantic night. Begin with a spreadsheet?

[Riley]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

It's like they put on Barry White and it's like, I am, I'm.

[Riley]

Yeah, I'm. I'm pretty wild. I'm a lot adhd. I don't know if you can tell.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I can totally tell. But here's what I also know about adhd. Hashtag. I may be a card carrying member of that group. Yeah, we love to create future problems that we can then solve in the present. Because most of us got a message our entire lives that there's something wrong with us and we find it very hard to be still in a relationship. Especially when that other person says, I pick and love you.

[Riley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We find it very hard to be still and just wrestle with our kids because we think there's something wrong with us that we need to go fix real quick.

[Riley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. So George is furiously typing on the math over here because he knows how that works. I'm still not great at it, but I want to tell you, having been where you are, having been where you are, like last night at midnight. How about that? That's me for vulnerability here. I had my spreadsheet out and I was looking at land. Okay. Trying to solve a problem that literally doesn't exist yet.

[Riley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I probably would have been of more value to my family had I gone to bed at 10 and woke up a little more clear eyed this morning and had fun when I shared breakfast with my children.

[Riley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Does that make sense? Do you know what's going to happen, Put it This way, in 18 years, that is four presidential elections from now.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Two presidential elections ago. Have you. Would you have predicted anything that the world is right now? Nope.

[Mark]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No. I was just looking up. George and I were looking at this new toy that came out that's connected to AI. It knows everything ever, ever, ever asked it knows it. And it just is supposed to talk to your kids so that they never have to talk to a parent or a person. In 18 years, you know what the world's gonna look like? I don't know. And so what I would tell you is solve today's problems today. And today's problems are your kids need a focused present, dad on all fours, wrestling with them on the ground. Does that make sense?

[Riley]

Yeah.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[Riley]

You're doing your nail on the head more than you know, bro.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You are so far ahead, you're already putting money in retirement. You got a pinch like you're doing good stuff. You know what I'm saying?

[Riley]

Yeah, Yeah. I just come from a lot of. Like, my parents just got divorced last year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know.

[Riley]

28 years of marriage.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I know. And you're trying to solve that on a spreadsheet. Solve it with connection. And that's scary and hard. Yeah, scary. George, tell. Talk about.

[George Camel]

All right, we can talk numbers now just to give you some ideas and options. Number one, you're investing for your own retirement. Are you saving for their college?

[Riley]

No, I opted to not do like a 529 or something like that. I suppose I could still do that and then roll it over into IRA if I got to that point down the road.

[George Camel]

Well, let me play this out for you. Here's my fear. Your kids have a great down Payment, but they have $200,000 in student loans to deal with.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well, he's already googled that and he's made the bet that there won't be any College in 18 years. Fair. Exactly. No, I just, I know this guy.

[Riley]

Want to force them to go to college and stuff, you know what I mean?

[George Camel]

Like, but I'll tell you what has happened in most American households. The parents go, well, figure it out. Well, the time comes for junior to go off to college and he chose a pretty expensive school because the parents never sat him down and set a boundary. And now it's 150 grand. And the parents took out some parent plus loans they could took out some subsidized loans from FAFSA and they got a mess to deal with. And so I'm telling you that to say what I do in my own house, I put my mask on first with retirement, then I focus on college. Then if there's money beyond that that I want to put away for my kids one day, I would just do that in a taxable brokerage account. And you can gift, if you're married, filing jointly, currently you can give 36 grand a year to each kid with no gift tax.

[Riley]

A taxable brokerage account.

[George Camel]

Yeah, just basically a non retirement investment account. Your money market account is not going to get you very far. And you've got such a long time horizon with a 3 and 5 year old. I'd rather see that money, you know, experience some compound growth in the market.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I'd, I would rather you put that money and pay off your house.

[Riley]

Yeah, I know, I want to really bad.

[George Camel]

So that's why I'm saying to John's point, I would focus on that. After you're through the baby steps, that's when you can start having some fun going, all right, we paid off the house, now we can set up our kids future.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. You know this reminds me of my buddy, Dr. Lane Norton. He's one of the smartest nutrition minds on the planet. Planet, here's his phrase. And I, I stole it directly from him and I love it. Most people when it comes to nutrition step over a hundred dollar bills trying to pick up nickels and pennies. They don't exercise, they don't lift weights, they don't eat right most of the time. And then they're like, oh my gosh, what essential oil is going to save me? Or did you hear about red number 40 or whatever? Maybe. But also, how about you just walk after dinner and lift weights? You see what I'm saying and what you're doing is what. What all great, powerful, love loving ADHD people do is it's way harder to take that $400 a month and put on your house payment because it's boring and it's slow and it's right now. And so it's sexier and feels it gets your heart rate up a little more to think about this future thing. And I'm going to look at the rates and what's I need to move it over here. And by the way, you know this as well as I do. Within the next year you'll have a new plan for that money. You know that.

[Mark]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So pay your house off. The greatest gift you could give your kids is a regulated dad.

[Riley]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And for you that means I don't owe anybody anything. The greatest gift you could give those kids is a mom who's got a group of women in her life that she goes and has fun with and laughs with and gets out of that crazy house and she has a community, spend money there.

[George Camel]

How much fun money are we talking for your wife? Have you guys talked through this number?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I guarantee it's like 17.

[Riley]

No, I would give her way more than that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You aren't giving her anything, my brother. Y' all are deciding this together?

[Riley]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Riley]

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It's our money. I'm sorry, I misspoke on that.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, good. Anyway, I accept your.

[Riley]

Paul. Yeah. No, yeah.

[George Camel]

What's the number? Is it a hundred dollars? Four hundred.

[Riley]

We are, we are ironing out. This is literally our first month of being in baby step six.

[Dr. John Deloney]

300Amonth. That's, that's it. $400 a month.

[Riley]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let it run wild.

[George Camel]

I say if the kids get 200 to the college account, she should get 200, she should get 600. There we go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

At least 3x. We just made that up. That's baby step 14.

[George Camel]

Start the negotiations tonight.

[Unknown Speaker]

All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions?

Possibly.

Yeah, I think so. Okay. Because you really prefer credit unions over big bank.

Well, credit unions for one thing are non profit, which means that the members, the customers own the credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing so you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing. But what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer centric.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Well.

[Unknown Speaker]

And I think we have found one that is incredible. And That's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really, really good job with customer service and the deals that they're offering. The Ramsey Tribe is incredible.

Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach they so line up with. And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just, just signed up and we got an account.

[George Camel]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

And I'm not kidding, it took less than five minutes. It was so user friendly. Like the step by step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day my phone rings and it says fair winds on my phone. So I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, yeah, they give calls to every new customer. And so again, they just really care about your experience and I, I so, so appreciate that. Plus anything that you can do at a traditional branch you can do with [e-mail] or on their app and you'll have free access to over 33,000 dol.

Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general and so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live. So go to fairwinds.org Ramsey Fairwinds is.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Federally insured by NCUA.

[George Camel]

From Ramsey Network. This is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell joined by best selling author and Ramsey personality Dr. John DeLoney and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Kelsey's going to kick us off in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's going on?

[George Camel]

Kelsey?

[Laura]

Hi. I'm a stay at home mom, herbalist and nutrition coach. But I'm currently not making much money from that. In fact, I'm losing money from the booth spot I'm renting. My husband and I, we have three children together and our mother in law lives with us. We've been in a rental for two years and I emphasize that because our housing situation was very like sad before. We were like living with people on and off. And so my mom in law pays a portion towards rent and we pay a bigger portion of course and we pay all the bills. But my husband's old job, he just lost paid only around 2,000amonth, and he was the only one working. Almost 100% of our income went to bills, and we were relying on credit cards to do laundry at the laundromat and basic things. And we're on government assistance. My husband thinks it's better to try to do an online business, but that's not secure. And we have tried online businesses, and they've generated a few thousand here or there, but not anything close to livable and secure. My husband, he just lost his job recently. He's scared a lot of jobs won't pay well and thinks it's better to live off of savings in the hopes of starting an online business. He thinks that's how people get rich. And a lot of jobs he's applied to just aren't getting back to him. We live in the ghetto and want to get out. We actually want to homestead. So my question is, how can my husband get a job where he's not underpaid? How do we get out of this cycle of poverty? And what are your thoughts on this? Like, what mistakes have we made? What in what small things can we do today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, if you were here, I wouldn't say anything other than I would ask you if I could just give you a hug and if I could give him a hug. Y' all are a part of a system that absolutely stoned a media ecosystem that preys on people like you. They. They prey on you. And not P R A Y, but P R E Y. And my heart's broken for you. Okay, Y' all got three kids, you said?

[Laura]

Yes, three young kids.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Here's, like, if I was to give you any advice at all right this second, I would implore you. I'm not going to beg you, but almost really close to begging you and your husband to close the freaking screens in your house. Instagram and these. These websites and these opportunities in these, they're going to bankrupt your soul. Because more than anything in the world, you all need one thing. You'll need money.

[George Camel]

You don't need another scheme. You don't need to get rich. You need to survive.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You're not even surviving.

[George Camel]

So we need to choose reality here and go, hey, we can't pay the bills. We can't launch a business out of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

A place of homestead at this point. The homesteading websites, you know what they are? They're pornography. They're a fantasy life that takes you away from the reality that you live in, and it allows you to not address the challenges in your home right now. And the Challenges are. You have. Is your mother in law work or does she stay at home too?

[Riley]

Do.

[Laura]

She stays at home, but she does do cleaning jobs once in a while. So she's not employed. She lives on widow's pension.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, If. If you were my sister or you were one of my close friends, here's what I would tell you to do. Mother in law, you're gonna. Whatever she makes a month cleaning, you and husband are now going to pay because she's now the primary caretaker of those three kids between the hours of 8 and 6pm for the next year. And y' all are going to sacrifice a year and that might mean you get up and you SOB on the way to work, but this stops with you two. And y' all work two jobs. You go to Home Depot and then after Home Depot, you go to Walmart. And after Walmart, y' all drive an Uber ride on the way home until Waymo takes it out of your community too. And you'll just simply have to earn money. There is no way George and I both had to keep showing up hour after hour, day after day at a job. It just so happens that after a few years they put our job on the Internet. But it wasn't a scheme. That's just not how it works. It's not. It's not real. It's just pornography.

[Laura]

I want to say something I'm really sick of. Like on X, there's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Get off. Hold on. Just stop. I'm supposed to stop. Just close it. Just get off.

[Laura]

Off.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Just get off. Because here's X's job. It's not. It's not. Here's what. X's job is not to tell you the truth. X's job is to keep you on X. That's the job.

[George Camel]

It's clicks and views and engagement.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's fucking job. MSNBC's new CNN. All of their jobs are not to give you truth or reality. It's just to keep you on the platform. Period. End of story.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

So here's. Here's the hard truth. You asked for some tactical advice how to get out of this. You gotta stop living in a victim mindset going well, life's just gonna keep happening to us. And we can't trust the jobs because they don't pay enough. Develop a skill set that someone's willing to pay for, go serve someone and they'll give you a president's face on.

[Dr. John Deloney]

A dollar bill as a way of saying thank you.

[George Camel]

And so that's the hard truth is anytime you're spending scrolling On X needs to be spent working. And I don't mean starting an essential oil online business. I mean going to an established company business that's willing to pay you a stable salary. So that means giving up the dream right now of the booth because you're losing money on it. And that means your husband's gonna have to do something that he probably doesn't want to do. That might be beneath his skill level. And it's gonna be swallowing his pride going, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to take care of my family.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How old are you, Kelsey?

[Laura]

28.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, 42. That was the year I got my six acres.

[Laura]

Wow.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I've wanted that my whole stinking life. Okay, so you're not behind. And by the way, it is awesome. And it's also a crazy pain in the butt. You know what George did last Saturday? I don't know. I mowed for five hours. I wish I was doing something else. Right. So it comes with all these other things, but it is awesome. 42 is when I got mine. Okay, but here's the deal. You're not going to be able to think your way or online course your way into the four jobs that are. That's not how that's going to work. Your husband's going to have to go get a job at Home Depot today or Walmart today. And then he might find out. I have kind of a mind for logistics. We put these things on this shelf, but they should probably go over here. Or I have a mind for customer service. I love it when somebody comes in mad and I can talk them down. And I'm pretty good at that. That or I love it when other people that I work for come and ask me questions. I wonder if I should get in the management track. That's how that happens.

[Laura]

He was a supervisor at his last job, but they didn't pay supervisors very well.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right.

[Laura]

And then here's the deal.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, but don't get on that that's victim mindset. They didn't cool. The next one might, and the next one might after that. And by the way, Yalls predicament, his predicament is not a them problem. And so if they don't pay enough, cool. I gotta get a second job. Because Yalls problem is a math problem. And math doesn't care about what your dream is. It doesn't care what you want to get one day. It cares what how much bills cost. Just math. Hang on the line. We're going to send you our buddy Ken Coleman's book Find the right with the work you're wired to do. And I want you to go through that and check all that out. But I want you all to check that out after y' all both have two jobs. Hops. It's game on. Game on.

[Unknown Speaker]

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[George Camel]

Josie's up next in Colorado Springs. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Josie, how can we help?

[Laura]

Hey, guys, thanks so much for taking my call. I'm a big time listener of the Deloney Show.

[George Camel]

Oh, wonderful. You got the right guy here.

[Laura]

Yep. Just wanted to ask for some advice. I've been married for two years. My husband and I have a 32 year age difference.

[George Camel]

How old are you versus him?

[Laura]

He's older.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I was hoping you were 64 and he was 32. That was gonna be awesome. Okay, so it's flipped.

[Laura]

And so, yeah, so, yep, he's the older one, 70, and I'm 38.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[Laura]

And when we first were courting, I initiated the idea of a premarital agreement. I guess I was so concerned about what people thought, even though I was already established on my own. And so the agreement was that we were just going to keep everything about our finances separate. And that's not good. And so we about, probably about six months ago, we kind of had some discussions and arguments. And he does contribute. However, we just did the Dave Ramsey class and he just wants to go through, like, all my spending and like my debt, which I don't have any, but he doesn't want to talk about any of his stuff. And it's just.

[George Camel]

Has he always. Always been this way, very cagey around money conversation or more like a dad? Is he like, I have my stuff together, but we can fix you, or is it just, hey, I'm not going?

[Laura]

No, he. No, that's only come up when I asked him, like, hey, will you help me with a spending plan? And I really would like to take the day of Ramsay class. And he's like, yeah, of course. So, no, he's not been like. But he has always been, you know, not really wanting to share about his.

[George Camel]

Do you know what he makes?

[Laura]

I don't.

[George Camel]

Do you know his net worth? Do you have access to any account that he has?

[Laura]

No.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Where do y' all live?

[Laura]

We live in Colorado, in a small town.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Whose house?

[Laura]

And he's. It's mine. I owned it for four years before we got married.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is he paying the mortgage on it, too now?

[Laura]

On my bank account.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is he paying the mortgage on it too?

[Laura]

So the answer to that is he contributes every month, so it could go towards it, but it's not enough for the mortgage payment.

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's.

[George Camel]

What's the mortgage payment?

[Laura]

It's 1632.

[George Camel]

And how much money does he give to you every month?

[Laura]

It just started to be 1500.

[George Camel]

Okay, and what was the agreement here? Was there like a, hey, you got to start paying, or was he just like, hey, I'll pay you 1500 bucks to help cover bills?

[Laura]

No, no. The agreement was before we got married that we were going to keep everything separate. But then, like, yes, go ahead. Really? There was no actual agreement of how much. He's like, I'll just give my Social Security, and it's a thousand dollars. And then it came out that it. What? Was not a thousand dollars. It was 16 something.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, let's do this. Let's. Let's do this. This is an awesome place to be. And here's what I mean. Awesome. Y' all made something up. Y' all made, like, a handshake, quasi prenup at the beginning of your marriage, and you didn't sign off or have lawyers. Lawyers draft anything?

[Laura]

No, we did.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, you did. Okay.

[Laura]

And what is on the premarital.

[George Camel]

What's the spark notes of this prenup? Is it whatever I came in with, I keep? Whatever he came in with, he keeps.

[Laura]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You get an allowance.

[Laura]

Finances separate forever.

[George Camel]

And his name is not on the deed of the house, so he has no ownership in this house, even though he's paying toward it. And he's okay with that?

[Laura]

Correct.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But. But. But if you pass away tomorrow, suddenly his kids will sue you for his part of that house because they're going to say he gave you his Social Security amount and it's going to get dragged through, Right? Yes. That's will happen 100%. Yes.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

So you're keeping your. You're keeping your finances separate, except y' all are venmoing each other, as George says. Like, you're like, well, no, he.

[Laura]

He got on my account and he began depositing 1500 every. I was like, well, yeah, I know it was a lot to take on, you know, me and my four kids, but.

[George Camel]

What do you mean, four kids? Like, you're. You're paying for everyone.

[Laura]

Well, he has recently started contributing, so.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No.

[Laura]

The answer to that is no.

[George Camel]

So what do you cover and what does he cover? I'm just so confused by all of this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Back at it. Back out of the question. How can we help? What are you looking for?

[Laura]

How to talk to him about. Like, I don't think it's right to be. Have the benefits of being married, but. And like me having 100% accountability. And, like, I just think.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Let me. Let me say this way. Y' all are married legally. Y' all haven't joined houses, Y' all haven't joined hearts, Y' all haven't joined spirits, y' all haven't joined missions.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

You just haven't. And that's okay. That's. That's the arrangement you'll set up. The beauty about arrangements set up by two people who shake hands is they can change that arrangement. It's been pain in the butt. You have to call a lawyer or whatever, but y' all can do that.

[Laura]

Yeah. And you can say, I guess I need advice on how to talk to him about it.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't feel safe in this marriage, and I don't feel safe in my home. Because if you drop dead tomorrow, I don't know where things are. I don't know what is what. I don't know who gets what. I don't know any of that stuff. I'm scared to death.

[George Camel]

Death.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And I was scared to death the last time in my previous marriage with. When I had four kids. I'm scared now. Will you help me?

[Laura]

Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And he might look at you and say, I will not. That's not your. That's not nothing for you to worry your pretty little head about.

[George Camel]

And it's okay to share your frustrations that you're taking on the brunt of this financial accountability while he sits back and sends a Venmo every month.

[Laura]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

I think you want more partnership in this marriage, and that's a fair thing to ask.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And can I tell you this? You aren't a burden. Your kids aren't a burden. He signed up for that. You don't got to apologize for him or take on more just out of this. This thing, this guilt, like, he signed up for it. He married you, and you came with four kids.

[Laura]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And so you don't have to walk in already wincing to a conversation.

[Laura]

Yeah. And it's just hard to talk to him.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay, then that points to a bigger challenge in your marriage, beyond finances.

[Laura]

Yeah. Oh, no, for sure. Yeah, definitely. But he just won't, like, when I bring specific things up to him. He just flat out will ignore it.

[George Camel]

Like, well, would he be willing to go to, you know, involve a third party and go to counseling with you guys to just work through some of these communication issues?

[Laura]

He has gone to a couple sessions with me. Yes. But he still looks at the whole situation as he came in and rescued me. And that's.

[George Camel]

So he's got a savior complex. He's like, well, I'll go to counseling with you because you need this, and I'm here to support you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. I'll go with you to this Dave Ramsey class for you to get your crap together, and you send me your budget, and I'll review it for you.

[Laura]

More debt. He has more debt than me, but he's just like, oh, it's no interest for a year. It's not even debt.

[Dr. John Deloney]

But I mean. But let's be honest, though. You knew that when you married him.

[Laura]

You mean as far as him not addressing things?

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah. He didn't just start avoiding feelings and things after you married him, right?

[Laura]

Well, kind of. Well, kind of.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Then if he did, then here's the deal. Then I think you put that on the table. But at some point, you're gonna have to either confront this fact that he won't talk to you or share his life with you or any way be engaged with you at all about him. Him. He's just serving as a dad to you. Or you're gonna have to make peace with, this is the guy I married, and this is the world I have. One of those two things has to be true. Both will be hard.

[Unknown Speaker]

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[George Camel]

Ramsey hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsey's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you. You'll find helpful info, everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to ramseysolutions.com insurance ramseysolutions.com insurance.

[Unknown Speaker]

Foreign.

[George Camel]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George campbell, joined by Dr. John DeLoney. Today's question of the day is brought to you by why Refi? When life happens and those private student loans go into default, why Refi offers real possibilities instead of judgment. Why Refi will help you explore a low fixed rate loan based on your unique, unique circumstances. You can learn more by going to yrefi.com Ramsey that's the letter y r e f y.com Ramsey may not be available in all states.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Today's question comes from Rebecca in Maryland. My husband and I have children together and children from his prior marriage that live with us most of the time. Is it wrong of me to save for my children's future while not as regularly contributing to my stepchildren's accounts? My husband's ex hasn't helped with lunch money, childcare activities or anything, and he refuses to push the issue. I essentially cover her half and have grown resentful about it. I love my stepchildren, but I can't help feeling like she should be contributing. At what point do I put my responsibility to my children first and let her decide if she wants to do the same? Yuck. Yuck, yuck. So I would need a lot more context here, but I'm just going to read this as this is George. When you married him, his kids came too. And these are now Yalls kids. If you want to treat them as just two strange, strange youngsters living in your house that are that guy's. That's cruel to them. That's cruel to your marriage. It's cruel to your own kids that they can see their mother treat other young kids that way. They live in her own house. House. So there's something about joining together. It sounds like you have a problem with X, that she was in his life. That she's not cool, she's whatever. That she's around. I wish she wasn't.

[George Camel]

And that you're picking up her slack.

[Dr. John Deloney]

As you see it. I don't look at it as picking up her slack as much as I am taking care of children, period. And then the next layer is you should. Who. We can argue over who's taking care of the kids, but the most important thing is we're taking care of kids. And these kids live in your house most of the time. Time. And so I think it's you sitting down with your husband and saying, do you and your ex have a plan for their college, for their food, for their groceries, for their whatever. And y' all sharing yalls money together. Because when y' all got married, y' all are sharing money together. And y' all have kids whether they're bio kids or whether they're step kid. Like they're yalls kids too, especially when they're living in your house. So this whole thing is just, just gross and messy. And I guess the thing that's, that's sitting with me not right is at the end of the day, the adults in this scenario are acting like kids and there's hungry children. And I, I just, I can't stomach that. Take care of kids first and then the grownups can solve their little, their bickering contest. You should pay. No, you should pay. That comes after we make sure all the mouths are feeding, feed or fed. And that's after we make sure kids have lunch money and they have a little league game they can go play if we have the money. So that's my take on that.

[George Camel]

Yeah, I'm just thinking through this and I'm going, the children didn't ask for any of this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

None of this.

[George Camel]

And I. I think it's.

[Dr. John Deloney]

By the way, it's not your kids. It's yalls kids with the same guy. So this is their brother and sister or their half brother and sister.

[George Camel]

Yeah. So is it wrong of you? I don't know that I want to call it a wrong or right. And I don't know that everything needs to be equal, but I think it needs to be equitable. I think we need to prepare for all of futures and make sure that they all have the same opportunities and not say, well, you're not my kid, so you're not gonna get to do this thing over here that feels cruel for no reason.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right. Or imagine the step kids talking to their dad saying, dad, why does my brother and sister that I grew up in their same house, why do they have a car? And why do they get to go to college and we don't? And he's like, well, actually, their mother loved y' all more than your mother loved. Your mother loved you. So sucks to be y' all. Oh, should have got her as a. You can't do that. I would figure out is the. This is mine, this is yours. All the way down from the money.

[George Camel]

And I don't know if they've combined finances. There's a lot further questioning I would have here.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Right there. So many more questions.

[George Camel]

But I would try to save for all of their futures, and I don't know what that means. Is that college? Is it something else? Again, we don't know.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Here's the important line. I love my stepchildren, but I can't help feeling like she should be contributing. She should. Good. And she's not. So she's not. So what's the next right thing? We're going to feed hungry kids, the ones living in our house first. We're going to start right there. And she should be contributing. Yep. You're right. You're right. Absolutely right. 100%. Your husband's kind of spineless. He should go sit down and talk to his wife or get the divorce decree out and hold her accountable. He's not have that real conversation. Not make the kids suffer for it. That's my thought on it. Amen, George. There's, like, a lot of adults not acting like adults.

[George Camel]

It's brutal because you want to just solve it all with, like, a math problem and, like, a financial. It's not. There's so much that just comes down to deep work of having really hard conversations that you don't want to have and adults choosing to be adults.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And having big, big feelings and then go doing the right thing anyway. Right. That's, that's an. That's. That's the definition of adult. I have this feeling and I'm going to go do the right, right thing and not just do what feels like. Feel like doing. Nope. I'm feel really angry and I'm going to take care of these kids. I feel taken advantage of. I'm going to take care of these kids. Right. And then I'll get on the whatever on my soapbox.

[George Camel]

But anyway, thanks for the question. That's a tough one. Mike is up next in San Antonio on the line.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike. What's up, dude?

[George Camel]

How's it going?

[Dr. John Deloney]

What's up?

[Laura]

How are y' all?

[Dr. John Deloney]

We're doing all right, man.

[George Camel]

How can we help?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm on my soapbox. So help me get off here a little bit.

[George Camel]

Talk John off the ledge.

[Riley]

My, my question is. So me and my fiance, we're getting married this summer.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We have. We're both 21 and we have combined like $30,000 saved.

[Laura]

We live really frugally.

[Riley]

We're gonna be paying for a thousand dollar apartment. She brings in about 4,000amonth.

[Laura]

Month.

[Riley]

I'm not working because I have one more semester left of school.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And we made a budget and we.

[Riley]

Determined that it's going to be okay. Like I don't need to work until I graduate. So my question is regarding cars.

[Laura]

I have a car with 170,000 miles.

[Riley]

On it and it's becoming pretty unreliable. She has a car with 120,000 miles on it and I'm trying to figure out, like, what we should do.

[George Camel]

Has the car been in the shop? How much money have you sunk into this thing in the last six months?

[Riley]

Quite a lot.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I don't know exactly.

[Laura]

I think it would probably be like 2,000 the money.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And now it's running.

[Riley]

It's still running. Yeah. But I have to replace possibly the catalytic converter soon.

[George Camel]

What's the car worth today?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I'm not sure. I looked it up online. It was saying about 3,500 it. But I would not sell this car until you're done with school and you have a job and you could pay cash for what's next. And unfortunately for you, you called two guys that drove to work today in cars that have over 200,000 miles on just. You picked the wrong day to call the show.

[George Camel]

Chose the wrong two dudes. I'm like 170. That's cute.

[Dr. John Deloney]

We're getting started. I know what kind of car is. I want to pat. Pat it on the head. Yeah. Okay.

[George Camel]

What kind of car do you drive? What is this?

[Riley]

It's a Ford Fiesta. I guess my main concern is that.

[Laura]

The transmission might go out because.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, we might get hit by a meteorite. Dude, the deal is you don't want to drive that car.

[George Camel]

Yeah. What's the question behind the question?

[Dr. John Deloney]

You hate that car. That's cool.

[Riley]

I mean, I honestly don't hate it.

[Mark]

I like.

[Dr. John Deloney]

I. I really like it.

[Riley]

It's good gas mileage.

[George Camel]

But here's the thing. You guys have the money to cover necessary repairs.

[Mark]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Right. And you don't. You don't have any debt, but either of you.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No debt. We're above the graduating debt.

[George Camel]

Amazing. So when and if that car does completely die and the repairs are worth more than the car, then at that point, I would say, all right, we're gonna go buy a used, reliable car for $10,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are you trying to, like, get. Sell it so you can get some value out of it? You think you're gonna just depreciate it into the mud?

[Mark]

Yeah, that was my.

[Riley]

Like, if the transmission goes out, I wouldn't be able to sell it, but if I could sell it now, I.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Get money from the car to a single mom who's got $3,000 that she scraped together to buy a car.

[Laura]

What was that? I'm sorry?

[Dr. John Deloney]

I mean, who are you going to sell a car to that you're worried about? The transmission's right about to go. I need to get it out of my driveway really fast before it blows up.

[George Camel]

I don't.

[Riley]

I don't know. Trade it in and someone takes it. I wouldn't sell it myself.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

I would wait until that day actually comes, and we'll cross that bridge, and you'll probably trade it in for 1,000 bucks.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah.

[George Camel]

Yeah, that's. That's what I've done in the past. And then I go, okay, well, we knew this was coming. It's not a surprise. So let's set aside money that is Mike's upgrade car fund and not say, this is an emergency drain the entire emergency savings while I'm still in school and we're not even married yet. I would make this decision together when that time comes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Foreign.

[George Camel]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, you're wondering where your money's going. Your first step is getting on a budget. And lucky for you guys, our team is hosting a free budgeting training this month where you're going to Learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget using our app Every Dollar plus, you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q and A. So go check it out. Spots are limited. You can sign up for [e-mail] webinar. Eli is in Huntsville, Alabama. Up next, Eli, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Unknown Speaker]

Thank you guys for taking my call. Hello.

[George Camel]

Sure. How can we help?

[Unknown Speaker]

So I just had a quick question. So we were trying. Thinking about doing the debt snowball. I don't really watch the show, but I've seen some shorts on Instagram. And so my wife got her bachelor's and is not able to find a job. And we. I'm considering to just. Instead of doing the debt snowball, saving some money up for her to get her master's because I feel like that'd be a bigger return to investment than trying to pay it all off now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Please don't do that. Please, please, please, please, please. Yeah, please don't do that. What's your degree in?

[Unknown Speaker]

So I'm a nuclear pharmacist.

[Dr. John Deloney]

No, not you. What's her degree in?

[Laura]

Oh, her.

[Unknown Speaker]

It's in psychology.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay. And what is she trying to find work doing?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, she's just been trying. She was trying to use her degree just kind of be, I don't know, just in like mental health counselor facilities. With just a bachelor's and she wasn't able to really find a solid job.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yeah, I mean, to practice. I mean, to even sit for the licensure exam, you have to have a graduate degree. So. I get that. Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yes.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Talk to me about your debt load that you all have right now.

[Unknown Speaker]

So we have around. She has around 20,000. Well, I guess we have 20,000 for her bachelor's and I have 70,000 for my doctorate degree.

[George Camel]

Is that all of the debt? No credit cards, no car loans, just student loans?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, but we're also closing on a house at the end of this month as well. I don't know if that's considered a loan or it's a mortgage, I guess.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's a big one. That's a big loan.

[George Camel]

Big financial step. While you guys are trying to pay off debt to add on of the, you know, stress of home ownership. How much are you putting down on the house?

[Unknown Speaker]

See, that was a problem. And I didn't. I put zero down on the house.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, God.

[George Camel]

Was this like an FHA loan?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, I got it. I was approved for an FHA loan. That kind of will cover the, the down payment and stuff like that.

[George Camel]

That's just called more loans. That's not a gift.

[Dr. John Deloney]

They don't hook you up.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yes, yes, I understand. I understand.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And even the word approved. The word approved. And. And, bro, we're like. Just imagine us sitting at a table with you, like, sharing nachos. We're, like, having fun with you, not at you. Okay, yeah, I know, but, like, even the word approved, like, I got approved.

[George Camel]

For $150,000 of student loans. You're like, that's not as awesome as you think.

[Dr. John Deloney]

That's like, we're gonna. We're gonna consider whether we can own you for 30 years. We'll get back to you. And you're like, please, please, please. How much do you make a year?

[Unknown Speaker]

So right now I make 90,000 a year.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Oh, big box of farts on a stick. So y' all have 90,000 in the hole. How big of a house did you just buy?

[Unknown Speaker]

It was 218,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay.

[George Camel]

And that's what's on the mortgage?

[Unknown Speaker]

And that's what's on the mortgages. And also, I'm. Every year I'm going to get a $10,000 salary increase. 230,000.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Are you sure?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm 100% sure.

[Dr. John Deloney]

How 100%? Because I have some friends who work in the forestry service who are pretty sure they'd have a job this year, and they don't.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, the thing is, I took a pay cut to get this job, so the Average salary is 130,000.

[George Camel]

Why did you take the pay cut?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, the way it worked is to get into the nuclear. It's kind of competitive. And he was able to get me in and pay for the schooling, and he promised me to. Well, it's an agreement to increase 10,000 every year until I get up to 130,000. But I can just leave and go to a different pharmacy and make that money now. But obviously.

[George Camel]

So when you say paying for schooling, is that paying off your student loan debt?

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, here's the thing. So when I say pay for schooling, I'm not paying for her to go school, but it wouldn't be a. I'm also paying my debt as well.

[George Camel]

So you're telling me you can go out and get a job making $40,000 more today per year, but you. For you, you're foregoing that to cover her potential master's degree?

[Unknown Speaker]

No, I could do that now. Like, right now I could leave and get a better job. But the career nuclear pharmacy is very limited in vocations, and the career I chose, I made a deal with him like where I was going to work for him for lower pay cut and I could still afford, I can still afford paying her her schooling and pay our debts and everything. That's not the problem. Is wondering if I should snowball debt now.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Yes.

[George Camel]

Or don't wait until you have more money. That day will never come because it'll always be, well, if we just made a little more, we could clean this.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Up faster or with twins or the car explodes or that guy, that boss gets fired.

[George Camel]

There's always going to be a better time to pay off debt. So I think we need to face the reality and go. Every single dollar that's not food, shelter, utilities, transportation, insurance and debt minimum payments needs to go toward cleaning up this debt.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And okay, it's not a disinvestment. This, it's like a You've, you've bound yourself in like an algorithm that, that is, is doesn't need to be bound the way you've, you've tied yourself up. Here's what I mean. Okay, if she goes and gets a job for two years working at a, as a receptionist in a psychiatrist office, she's going to get incredible skills into how the business of being a psychologist works. She's going to learn how to do scheduling, how to do budgeting, how to do time, how to do cancellations. That is a incredible business. ROI on the practice of being a therapist that many therapists don't get until they blow it. And so. Or getting a job as a hospital runner, getting a job as a hospital chaplain, sitting with people who just lost a loved one. All of these things. My job as a dean of students, sitting with people who had just cheated. And I've got to say, you can't be in college anymore. Or sitting with kids who are about to go to jail or sitting with parents whose kids just died. All of those things gave me tools that when I finally went to get a PhD in counseling, I had so much more context. So the idea is it's an roi. Dollar for dollar, you can't think of it that way. You have to think of what's going to make her the best therapist over time. And with the dollars that we have in our house right now, and y' all are negative $90,000. Yeah, that's the important thing. Your negative $90,000 not including your mortgage. So let's get to zero. Let's get 20% of that house paid down and then let's exhale and then say, okay, what do you want to do next year. And by the way, I'm making 20,000 more dollars. See how that. You get what I'm saying? And here's what, here's what George and I are solving for. Resolving for peace in your house. And most Americans do not have that. They don't have peace.

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Is that fair?

[Unknown Speaker]

Okay.

[George Camel]

What, what would it cost for her to go get this master's?

[Unknown Speaker]

30,000. And I have total calculated enough. Yeah, total. Because it'd be UNA University of North Alabama.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Good on North. Good on UNA. Man, I didn't know there were any programs under 50 or 60.

[George Camel]

But you're telling me your employer is going to cash flow that on her behalf.

[Unknown Speaker]

I'm going to get the money and I'm going to be paying it off? Yeah, basically.

[George Camel]

Well, you let me make it clear. You took a $40,000 pay cut every single year to pay for a one time $30,000 bill.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[George Camel]

Don't you think that's bad math?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, let's see. Okay. The reason I did it when I didn't have a, I was rotating for pharmacy and I really, really wanted, I want to get into nuclear. And everyone was telling me you're not going to get into nuclear. It's impossible. That has a low turnout rate, turnover rate. So when he offered me the job, 90,000, I mean I already got the nuclear licensing so I could theoretically leave. But we kind of, I kind of feel indebted to him. He's a really good, he's like the small business and he's been teaching me a lot and all that. And, and that's kind of the reason why I'm staying there with the 90,000 and we're saving enough where I can debt snowball a little bit. I can put in like 500 extra.

[George Camel]

And I'm telling you, you are stunting your financial growth and future by being quote unquote indebted to your friend. I would say, hey, thanks man. I need to get out of this hole. And I'm not asking you for a $40,000 raise, but I have this opportunity over here that's going to get us out of here debt years ahead of time and we're just going to cash flow her degree. I appreciate everything you've done for me.

[Dr. John Deloney]

And you know what makes me feel like a really, I have got amazing friends is when I go to their house and I see they've got my book on their shelf and they didn't ask me for it, they got online and bought it because they wanted to support me and So a great friend may not ask you to take a $40,000 pay cut just as a high five. Just food for thought.

[George Camel]

I hope that helps, man. Best of luck with everything. Hey, what are you still doing here? You know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app, right? So you got to jump over there to continue. You can download it for free. Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey Network. It's completely free, and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. So if you're watching on the app, you're in luck. But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you. So jump onto the app and let the fun continue. All right, go on now. Don't make it weird, Okay? I got nowhere to go, so you need to go.

[Dr. John Deloney]

Okay? Okay. Bye.

[George Camel]

Bye, now. All right, this is getting weird over there, guys. What do we do?